Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, Part 679
Sky News earlier this morning:
Our ears always prick up when Kezia says she’s counted something herself.
Dugdale’s comment is absolutely unambiguous that what she’s talking about is the period of campaigning before the first referendum on 18 September 2014. So how has she arrived at a figure of 847 days?
– The SNP won an overall majority at Holyrood on 6 May 2011. From that point on it was clear there would be a referendum, and people started talking seriously about it. (For example, by the weekend after the election the Sunday Times was talking about “senior Tories” like David Mundell trying to force a snap vote.) But counting from that date gives us 1,231 days.
– The Edinburgh Agreement, where the UK government formally transferred the powers to hold the referendum to Holyrood, making it a legal reality, was signed on 15 October 2012. But that’s only 703 days.
– The Order In Council at Westminster which actually passed the Agreement into law didn’t happen until 12 February 2013, which is 583 days.
– Alex Salmond announced the official date of the referendum on 21 March 2013. Classing that as the beginning would make 546 days.
To get a figure of 847 days, you have to start on 24 May 2012. We asked around and an alert reader pointed out that Yes Scotland launched just one day later, on 25 May, which by Kezia Dugdale’s standards would count as pinpoint accuracy.
But since “Better Together” didn’t launch for another month after that, on 25 June, one could hardly say the debate had begun, since under that criterion there was only one side in it. So she’s a minimum of 31 days out, and realistically more like 400.
The tragic thing is, that’s probably still a personal best.
.
Previous Kezia Dugdale Fact Checks: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10]
Harsh. It looks cold in that video so she couldn’t take her shoes and socks off to help with the big numbers.
Grinning idiot:has nothing upstairs.
Thank heavens she doesn’t manage a budget is all I can say.
Time to dig out the photos of the Labour calculator again-gonna need them on twitter 🙂
Prof Dugdale strikes again. I almost feel sorry for SLAB… She’s never been right about anything, that must grate. Then I remember the type of people involved (Anas Sarwar being a particularly awful human being) and I stop the pity.
TBF Ms Dugdale probably wasn’t aware anything of any importance was happening at all until some policy wonk informed her the day before (cough).
Ooft Dr Ew- apt & definitely appropriate in the circumstances
Her sneaky “85% of Scots voted and voted NO” stuff, is very SLabour too.
Fundilymundily sums can be confyoosing and complexcated just ask Kevin Hague who’s been on the BBC and knows a thing or two about, well maybe not!
Kezia was at school when Labour were in charge, she should have had extra lessons from her Daddy, he’s in the SNP you know
Smart man!
So she’s saying that no matter how much things change, you just plod along as if nothing has changed. The widespread view around the world was that Brexit was really dumb and that people in the UK were idiots to have voted for it. To give those that voted leave some credit, they were fed lies, lies that were proven to be such virtually immediately after the vote. But according to the unionists Brexit and it’s lies don’t require any reevaluation?
link to youtube.com
If the Brexit shambles and lies aren’t grounds for reconsidering the UK as an entity then it only definitively shows what a bunch of callous self serving freeloaders the people who try to sell the ‘ignore it’ message are.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, Part 679 Sky News earlier this morning: Our ears always prick up when Kezia says she’s […]
Sounds like she is referring to some deal between the tories and labour that was done in secret. Only now she has blurted it out in public like a talentless and clueless oaf.
The lassie is way out of her depth. She was elected to present Scottish Labour as a dynamic party with a young dynamic female leader. It transpires it was more about appearance than ability. It takes more than a law degree to be a “Portia”.
She must have believed in independence at one time or she would never have tried to join the SNP.
Hapless, helpless, and hopeless.
Labour has taught her much. It has taught her to lie without regret. It has taught her to hate without compassion. It has taught her that principles are expendable .
Labour only use her for their own ends. They cynically tried to ensure their national seat count at Westminster would be regained courtesy of their former serfs in Scotland. She will be expendable soon . It would have happened already had Labour not been in such a mess down south.
No Kezia. Leadership is about more than who shouts loudest. It is about who can inspire the best. That position belongs to Nicola.
847 is a remarkably definite number. No rounding up for Kezia. Reminds me of Miss Brodie when summoned to the headmistress’ office at 4.15 pm :
“She seeks to intimidate me by the use of the quarter hour.”
“847 days” is a coded message from labour’s branch office to the London HQ. It probably means something like: “Help, support for independence up here is now sitting at 84.7 per cent.”
Oh f/k me pick a number , any bloody number who cares it will never be challenged , a nice wee throw away line bordering on a lie when she more or less hinted the 85% who voted , voted NO a slip of the gob Kezia or a rehearsed little fib meant to confuse.
This slip from anyone else might be forgivable from Kezia Aye right nice try but no cigar dear .
Loved the ‘conflation’ which tried to suggest that 85% of Scots voted against freedom from Westminster.
Pure Gold.
Remarkable she did indeed mention that it was held then. Somebody should ask her if anything has changed since then. Logically she will have to say no, then you ask her how come in that case she is now the leaderene.
It is depressing that they cannot see that TMay BoJo DeeDee and Foxy have changed our world utterly so the circumstances of 2014 are not those of today and the ‘divisive’ arguments of then are not relevant today
“847 days”
Perhaps it’s the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Union, and Everything, calculated by an enormous supercomputer in London HQ.
Unfortunately, no one now knows what the question was. 🙂
@Free Scotland. Could be code for the 847 Royal Naval Air Squadron to come in…
She said yesterday that oil and gas business had actually COST the UK money last year. WTF is she on.
You are getting sloppy Stu, you missed the part at the end of the clip where she said, “85% voted in that referendum and they voted no”.
Dugdale’s last sentence should read, ‘..and we just want to freeze Scotland in time, reliving’Groundhog Day’ – 19th September 2014.
Kezia Dugdale is a whinging wee whinger.
She should be in politics except maybe as a councillor cos that’s her limit.
Our education system must have been really had a problem, when we see people like Kezia Dugdale.
And she has the brass neck to give lectures to SNP ministers at Holyrood on education.
@Liz
She should be in politics except maybe as a councillor cos that’s her limit.
_____
The Peter principle should have found her out long before she reached that level of office.
Sorry, before anyone picks me up the grammatical error.
I thought I had deleted the word been.
She’s definitely got worse since she went to the USA for her brainwashing course last year. No doubt at all.
The simple fact these uber-yoons cannot get into their thick craniums is this: Scotland voted to remain two Unions. In the first referendum (UK) it voted 55%-45% in favour of remaining. In the second referendum (EU) it voted 62%-38% of remaining. There is a much larger majority wish to remain European than there is to remain British. But we cannot be European AND British.
It has come down one or the other. We did not ask to be placed in this position–indeed, we were assured in 2014 that it could never happen. But it has and here we are.
Scotland absolutely requires a THIRD referendum to decide this issue–it is the fairest way of settling this matter. To deny us this choice while every other nation in Europe, including tiny Malta and Belgium, gets a say in what happens to us would be a complete affront to democracy in this country and simply cannot ever be allowed.
Only a third referendum can reasonably settle this issue.
Theresa May at PMQs
“This isn’t a question about whether the people of Scotland should have a choice or not”
That is an outright and bald faced lie by the PM. This is ALL about our right to choose.
So, Daily Record. Scotland’s Champion. Are you willing to let this stand? Is this the better togetherness your readership should enjoy?
She wanted it in 2014 because she thought they would win it.
She’s dead against it in 2018 because she knows they will lose it.
Democracy Slab style.
Hmm Dugdale maths:
There are seven days in a week, there are four weeks in a month, there are thirty months in a generation (two and a half years) so.
7 x 4 x 30 = 840 err on caution and add 7 just in case.
QED
Radio 2 Jeremey Vine …… Discussing the Scottish Parliament debate on Ondy…..brought on 4 people …. We were supposed to assume they were eligible to vote in Indy Ref. 2. Every one was strongly anti Indy Ref2. …..
Straight over to The BBC’s radio station in Scotland……. Ronald MacDonald …Unionist economist…… Preceded by John McLaren Unionist economist on before 9pm
@Free Scotland @Marker Post
Sorry guys, I have to disagree I think you’ll find that her number of 847 is the actual number of members of Labour in Scotland.
It’s official folks.
Labour in Scotland do NOT have 30,000 members, nor do they have 20,000 members they actually have an exact number of 847 members. 😀
O/T
Private Eye has historically been against Scottish Independence but not with the same hysterical attitude taken by the London blats.
Most of the time when attacking Indy it depends on bollocks fed to it by an unnamed Scottish correspondent with the result that its comments re Indy are at best uninformed but at worst frequently untrue.
It has been suggested frequently to Ian Hislop that said correspondent should receive the old heave ho.
This morning I received the latest copy of The Eye and was pleasantly surprised to see a small piece comparing the English and Scottish editions of The Sun regarding Indy.
Elsewhere there were a few snide anti-Indy comments.
Stu has on several occasions produced wonderful graphics comparing the English and Scottish editions of various blats and if anybody has saved said images can I suggest that copies be forwarded to The Eye in the hope that they might publish them.
I love how in sport, justice is sought.
Medal winners from the Moscow Olympic games have recently been proven to have used illegal Drugs, and so they are being chased for their medals, and these are now to be presented to those clean athletes, who were cheated.
Drug users who won the Tour De France are being stripped from the record books.
Usain Bolt is to be stripped of a relay Gold Medal through a team mates’ positive drug test, but in politics:
People who voted No in the referendum were persuaded by the promise of extensive new powers, a Federal State, Home Rule, ALL of which turned out to be Lies, Cheating, Corrupt.
Others Voted No as it was proclaimed to be the only way that
they could stay in Europe. Another unjust comment, a lie that sees us being ripped out of Europe against our will.
The 3,000 HMRC Employees in East Kilbride urged their family, friends and local community to vote No as it was the only way that they could keep their jobs.
That’s the Jobs that have been relocated to Croydon near London.
The Ship yard workers the same situation, the only way to land 13 new ships was to Vote No. The order was cancelled at one point, but now they have a reduced order of 8 Ships that was placed late, and cost jobs.
Peterhead voted No as they would get a £Billion Carbon Capture plant with a No vote and unemployment in the area would be dramatically reduced.
No Vote Received, the project was cancelled.
A No vote would see Scotland get £3 Billion to develop renewable energy projects. No vote Received, All Funding Stopped.
How dare these Westminster Rats suggest that the referendum vote was clean, fair, or just.
I,and Scotland, want justice!
We want the cheats and liars exposed for what they are and brought to justice.
As you listen to Dugdale,you cannot bu help asking yourself
“who ties her laces?”
Borg Queen: Hey poundshop. Did I hear right? Is it true you can only count to 21?
Poundshop Borg Queen: Eh Aye but in ma defence Ive only got 9 fingers and 12 toes.
@gus1940 12:57 pm :
“O/T
Private Eye has historically been against Scottish Independence…”
It would be more accurate to say Ian Hislop is anti-Scots, taught by his daddy. Educated at Ardingly College (public school) & Magdalen College, Oxford.
I’ve watched/listened to/read the snide bastard’s comments on us more than 20 years before indyref1.
You’re wasting your time. Really, he’s one of the establishment these days. Kids educated at Brasenose College and Jesus College Oxford….
I’d stop paying for it were I you. I did that in 1997 when he was slagging off devolution (and Scots).
Dugdale comes to mind in this good quote from Bill Murray
” It is hard to win an argument with a smart person,but it is damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid one.”
Lying toad. We can all scoff at her for not seeming to be the sharpest tool in the box, but these people are not as daft as we think. She has squirmed her way to a top job, with a very lucrative wage, and into the bargain, gets to spout lies and nonsense that are piped into peoples’ living rooms.
How many people are watching this crap out with Scotland and taking it as gospel. She and her tory pals are pandering to a wider audience than Scotland, so that anything they do to stall or stop independence is seen as legitimate.
I was looking up how many years these people have to serve before getting a canny pension, I think it is 13 years?
Love the 1-10 previous fact checks under the article. Dugdale should by now have a reputation, for telling porkies. I say, should.
Jim says:
22 March, 2017 at 12:34 pm
@Liz
She should be in politics except maybe as a councillor cos that’s her limit.
————————————————-
Bit unfair on Councillors don’t you think.
I gave up watching yesterday. Rennie did it for me, an utter clown.
Think I’ll just leave this here. 🙂
link to plus.google.com
Theresa May has effectively announced her intention to void Scotland as a country and even the Unionists should be concerned about the implications of that because crossing their fingers and thinking she wont go any further than just blocking the SNP is a hefty mistake
The Unionists might think they’re getting what they want now but further on down the line there are many more decisions they wont like that Mrs May and her troops can make and they need’nt think the SNP will be there to prevent that happening
What happens to Scotland if the SNP are not there, do the Labour party see a revival, if they do how long will it last, not long I suspect
So It’s Tories all the way under puppet Ruth Davidson
But of course if Theresa Mays plan is to use Brexit to make the Tories even richer than they already are then resign from office and allow an ineffective Labour party into office to take the flack for the Brexit fallout then Scotland will gain Independence the Tories will blame the loss of Scotland on Labour, keeping the Tories record in government flawless
Then Boom four years later the Tories are back to replace Labour and still get to crow about Labour incompetence on breaking up the Union
So Now is not the time probably means it will be the time right after the Tories decide to lose the next election
The same applies to the SNP they don’t have to do anything but wait till the country is screaming for them to be back in government to fix the shit that the current crop of Unionists are putting us in right now
So Independence will still happen but it might have to be at the Tories convenience and Labour supporters will still be made to look like the Arses they are
‘UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes. Fears for UK jobs as EU officials say airlines will need to move base and majority of shareholders to fly routes within Europe’.
Just another trivial real world Brexit fubar. Never mind, just ignore it. We’ve covered all this before.
I must have missed that bit.
If Scotland does remain in the EU, decisions like this open up yet more positive conditions for Scotland. I wonder if the GERS projections (guesses) took things like this into account?
Private Eye’s ignorance and Britnat line re Scotland is very disappointing and caused me to stop reading it too.
Quote below is from BBC UKOK Who Do You Think You Are? programme. So Hislop is another one with Scots ancestry who appears to nurture his own version of the cringe:
“Ian knew less about his father’s family history, but his research helped him flesh out the story of his paternal grandfather, David Murdoch Hislop. He was raised in Ayr, and was an enigmatic, distant and mysterious figure in Ian’s early life. He was a strict headmaster, a lay preacher and a stern moralist.
During the Great War he went to the front line in 1918, and was part of the 9th Highland Infantry that fought in the battle of Targelle Ravine on 29 September, one of many futile battles fought in that war. David Hislop’s regiment suffered grievous losses during one morning of battle for little gain, and fought for two weeks before breaking through the front line.”
Think I’ll just leave these here. These are just a few examples of the incredible “bonus” we are going to be receiving as a result of Brexit! 🙂
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
Not forgetting these either:
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
Baillie, Davidson and Dugdale, role models for honesty like Herod was for childcare.
After a faltering start in Wales, what odds against Theresa May not completing her UK ‘listening’ tour.
As a PR stunt designed to bolster her non-existent ‘listening’ credentials in Brexit talks, I suspect it will fail comprehensively.
At least she’s consistent.
@Black Joan 1:48 pm :
“So Hislop is another one with Scots ancestry who appears to nurture his own version of the cringe”
Probably inevitable given daddy was a civil engineer who worked in “Empire Countries” & then he went to public school/Oxford. Wouldn’t have had an accent due to daddy’s work so nice & easy to say nothing I bet.
People are usually what their environment moulds them into.
Show will be starting soon:
link to scottishparliament.tv
One could argue that it began on the 23rd June 1928 when the National Party of Scotland was founded.
Did Kezia have a point? (I appreciate that this is usually optional as all roads lead to SNPbaaaad)
Apart from taking the piss, why is this important? Should we not be trying to raise the level of the debate, instead of trivialising it?
Oops last post stuck in the ether. I’ll try and break it down here.
Here are just some examples of how “glorious” Brexit will be.
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
I remember some of the things Ian Hislop said on HIGNFY around the time of the last referendum. He’s very biased against independence and the SNP, so I wouldn’t expect Private Eye to be fair in their coverage of the issue.
Some truly superb letters in the National – and I just caught up with Peter Bell’ magnificent comment on Kevin McKenna’s article.
There is a wee photo of WGD’s daddy in the paper which looks very much better on line! The one on line definitely speaks to you.
Lucky Lockerbie will hear the man himself
O/T but if anyone ever had any doubt about where The Herald stood on the independence issue, today’s paper provides a real pointer.
The front page bold headline says “Tycoon vows not to invest while vote on Union looms”. This refers to Alasdair Locke who was on the No side in the last campaign and a known Tory supporter.
On the same topic in the same edition there is another headline “Bellway says independence would not alter strategy”. This comment was made by Keith Adey, group finance director. However The Herald chooses to tuck this away low down on the back page with a rather small headline. The question is, why does the one get a big prominent headline and the other not?
The Westminster / Unionist strategy at the moment is clearly to attack the SNP Government by accusing it of failing to implement policy votes taken in the Scottish Parliament, and by so doing to portray the SNP as being unfit to govern an independent Scotland.
The unwary voter, on hearing this line of criticism, will conclude that Independence under the SNP would be risky.
Forgetting that being a colony under the Tories outside the EU, will be Austerity-Max.
The SNP need to present a very robust defence of the Scottish Government’s record on this score. And quickly, before it gains a foothold with soft voters.
2012 was a leap year so she has probably added a day for that. Unfortunately for her the leap day (February 29th) was before May so she’s buggered herself up.
Part two of my mini list of “glorious” affects of Brexit. 😉
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
link to archive.is
Has the penny dropped yet amongst the Yoons about just how GREAT it will be to live in an EX E.U. UK yet? 😀
@Footsoldier 2:12 pm :
“O/T but if anyone ever had any doubt about where The Herald stood on the independence issue”
Ummm you must be new here 🙂
Here’s a quick summary of the “Herald papers” positions on indy….
Daily Herald : No Surrender to the SNP
Sunday Herald : We’d like you to believe that we’re pro-indy but we’re really here to post divisive stuff to split your vote. Most of us.
The National : Pro-indy. Personally I’m not entirely convinced as its owned by the same group and is sub-edited in the same place as the other two papers (Cardiff).
You’re preaching to the choir matey, nobody here has the slightest doubt what the Daily Heralds stance is 🙂
Cheers Capella 🙂
James sit down Kelly oan the noo…complaint about ‘social housing’…fucking cheek…getting smelled as ah type!
skelped…no smelled…hmm…perhaps a fitting typo 🙂
@gus1940
Private EYe has now gone so far beyond the Yoon Pale that its actually part of the read to see how many times they:
a: Mention anything Scotland related
b: Slag SNP
c: Rant at the Scottish Govt ( yeah you Pilori!)
Sometimes there can be no mention whatsoever or the standard Letters contribution with someone damning SNP\Scotland or agreeing with a previous damnation.
Once in a clue moon you get an NHS rant at England with an ,unlike in Scotland, line included but very rare.
You will soon find yourself placing bets before you open an edition “Okay, this time I reckon 3 rants or sarcastic digs!”. Enjoy
everytime the Dug talks about either The SNP, The Yoonion, or The New Independence referendum, i swear to god she’s gonna implode and turn into either Davros or a Dalek… Queue dodgy BBC set design …
Murdo Fraser Clown
link to caltonjock.com
@Arbroath1320 2:14 pm
“Part two of my mini list of “glorious” affects of Brexit. ?
link to archive.is ”
Thank gods for that!
My main worry for indy Scotland in the EU is shite like HSBC (caught laundering money again) will move to Edinburgh.
Scotland doesn’t need a whole load of bankers decamping north & continuing their corruption.
If Dublin wants them then good. I’d avoid them like the plague….
Interesting link on Rev’s twitter feed about the deficits of the various nations in the UK. It seems that Scotland Wales and N Ireland have over 52% of the national UK deficit attributed to them even though we only have a toal population of just over 10 million.
Funny that.
The Unionist don’t want another IndyRef2 because they are too lazy to campaign for it. They can’t be bothered. They would rather do what they usually do. Sit on their lazy backside troughing on public money while killing and starving vulnerable people to death. They just don’t care as long as the cheque keeps rolling in for total useless incompetence. They have the electoral system tied up so the voters can’t get rid if them. That is why they are so smug. Ignorant, arrogant and total incompetents. Useless.
No wonder the majority of the electorate don’t support PR. Getting taken a lend of and having to vote for people, of whom they can’t stand the sight. This is what puts people off voting. They really can’t be bothered with it. Undemocratic complicated electoral system. A total unreasonable proposition. Winding up, trolling and patronising the electorate by half-wit politicans who have the result screwed up. Puts voters off even more.
Does anyone have any idea why snp.org site is down, on any device I try, and with different browsers. Gives an error message and long reference number. I wanted to look something up.
The ‘Scottish labour’ site is loading fine. Is the vote today by any chance.
Yo Cybie (12.40)
You wrote: “Scotland absolutely requires a THIRD referendum to decide this issue–it is the fairest way of settling this matter. To deny us this choice while every other nation in Europe, including tiny Malta and Belgium, gets a say in what happens to us would be a complete affront to democracy in this country and simply cannot ever be allowed.”
…. who has said that Scotland can’t have another referendum?
The only message I have heard is “now is not the time”.
Ms Sturgeon agrees with that, she doesn’t want one now either.
I believe Ms Sturgeon wants to choose the very moment when the UK will be attempting to finalise the most important negotiations for the UK in recent history. The very moment that will be so important to the economy of the UK (including Scotland – whether it is in, or out, of the UK at a future date).
If you want to be taken seriously, best to stop the disingenuous rhetoric.
Its pure political posturing designed to cause as much discomfiture to as many people as possible at a time when we really don’t need these distraction.
We know, from her past, Ms Sturgeon is a political opportunist that will throw her integrity under the bus if she thinks she can score a political point.
In a way, it would be very amusing if Ms May named a date, in say 3 months time, for a Scottish Referendum – just to watch Ms Sturgeon back pedal at 100 mph because she doesn’t actually want a referendum because she knows she wont win it.
You and I both know by now there will not be another indyref before the UK Brexits – because neither Ms May or Ms Sturgeon actually wants one!
All of the other pretendy, shouty stuff is about the set up to SNP supporters as to why Ms Sturgeon wont be holding a referendum before Brexit (i.e. its absolutely not because the Scottish electorate would vote it down, heavens no, its because nasty Westminster are stopping it).
England/Wales have a deficit of £1.7Trns. Scotland has to pay off loan payments on their debts even though the money is spent, on HS2, Hinkley Point. Heathrow and Trident. £500Billion. All a total waste of public money. Plus Scotland has to pay £1Billion for Trident. Double whammy. Paying the debts and another £1Billion. £1Billion could reduce child poverty in Scotland.Money much better spent. Etc, etc.
£20Billion is wasted or taken out of Scotland because Westminster policies. High illegallyTory taxes on the Oil sector. Stopping production etc.
Yo Risible – “The only message I have heard is “now is not the time”
Aye Risible – that’s cos your ear is glued to listenin tae the wankers in WM. Try listening to the Yoon arseholes here in Holyrood – “The people of Scotland don’t want another referendum – BWAAAAAHHHH!”
Oh and – nudge, nudge – wink, wink.
Artyhetty says:
22 March, 2017 at 2:38 pm
Does anyone have any idea why snp.org site is down, on any device I try, and with different browsers. Gives an error message and long reference number. I wanted to look something up.
The ‘Scottish labour’ site is loading fine. Is the vote today by any chance.
I have no idea Arty, I did try and contact them via their website but apparently their website is down. 😀
Maybe it has crashed due to the unexpected huge numbers of people applying to join the party. 😀
As I hinted at earlier today Arty, Labour only have 847 members in Scotland so it stands to reason their website will be working fine. 😀
Just reading this about how deep in the shite May has hot herself …
link to commonspace.scot
The Tories have got themselves into one Hell of a constitutional mess with Brexit and Scotland. I obviously have no sympathy.
She appears to have little option but to grant a section 30.
I’m beginning to think that many in England probably accept the Union is over.
Re;Bob Mack@2.32
Of course, very handy, blame your neighbours for your debt, and make them pay. Win win.
England is like a protection racket when it comes to the rUK, take their money, ‘we’re all one big happy family’. Got that? ‘Here,(handing a few notes back) buy your miss’s a nice new dress, now get lost outa my sight’! Scotland, N.I.,Wales, scurry away, lucky to be alive.
Well we got the big boys and girls, watching our backs now, haven’t we? EU27? 🙂
“There are reports of shots being fired outside the Houses of Parliament and the Palace of Westminster is reportedly in lockdown.”
link to bbc.co.uk
re;Arbroath1320@2.51pm
Oh I forgot about that, yes Slab are so lightweight. In fact, they are so yesterday.
Site for snp.org still totally down. Not happened before, not surprised though.
Looks like someone has taken a bit of a hump to what the Despot Mayhem has been saying recently.
link to archive.is
Quick update to my last post. RT are reporting that TWO people have been shot.
link to rt.com
Alex Neil……….mischief making. Not impressed.
Convenient timing…..!
Expect the tories to milk this to death.
When Kez went to her Labour managed school maybe they used the Roman Callandar and 1 + 1 = 2.5
I tried yesterday and today to watch some of the debate. Frustrated, angry and bored. Turned off.
She’s just a wee bit flustered as she was too busy wiping egg off Jim Murphy around that time.
Ian gray…………….just awful, just truly awful.
People Carrier says:
22 March, 2017 at 3:08 pm
Ian gray…………….just awful, just truly awful.
He’s improved then PC. 😀
Kez and Jackie Baillie are no use with figures.
I have absolute faith that the fine people of an independent England will sort things out down there, eventually.
It may be a big un as far as swamps go, but they will drain it I’m sure.
When that does happen, even those who would otherwise have been members of a privileged elite will benefit in personal human fulfillment terms even if they do not realise it themselves.
Cole Hamilton’s speech shows up his lack of oratry. More creative at filling in expenses forms.
Are we kidding wi this cole whatisname? Talk about milking it! Puhlease….
Any one any idea whit’s happened at Westminster?
Awful happenings at WM bridge. 🙁
Right…ah see.
o/t
Wings get a mention and well done to all who have stopped paying for skytv
link to thecanary.co
SNP now OK. I checked out the Scottish Parliament site and they have a ‘live chat’ thingy. They checked it for me and said it was working ok. I explained about it being down and others saying the same, however all’s well that ends well.
Am I too baad – hoping that it’s no been a Scottish person thats involved wi’ the shooting?
There is still no great info coming out about incident at Westminster. What I have heard reported is :
1) House of Commons were in the middle of a vote but the HoC has been adjourned for the rest of the day.
2) up to around 10 people have been injured on Westminster Bridge after being struck by a vehicle driving along the pavement of Westminster Bridge. Looking at footage on SKY it appears the pedestrians who were injured were on the West side of the bridge i.e. the road side heading towards Westminster.
3) a vehicle crashed into gates at Westminster and one occupant vacated vehicle and ran into Old Palace Yard. One police officer has been stabbed. The attacker has been shot.
4) Casualties on Westminster Bridge are being attended to as are the police officer and attacker at Old Palace Yard.
5) police are working through the Palace of Westminster checking for any other intruders.
6) Scotland Yard are now saying they are treating this as a terrorist incident.
There’s a wee naughty bit at the end as well.
“85% of Scotland’s population voted in the referendum and they voted NO”.
Sorry Kez 85% of Scotland’s population did not vote NO. Was that a sneaky wee bit of subliminal falsehood or is she just dumb?
Sadly people have been hurt at Westminster incident. My heart goes out to them.
For information on the shooting follow on twitter [if you want to]
link to twitter.com
Westminster events, shocking. Hope it is not as bad as it is looking.
Baillie kicks off by quoting Jim Sillars.
It can only get better and will still be demented.
Baillie another Tory denying interventions.
@galamcennalath 2:52 pm :
“I’m beginning to think that many in England probably accept the Union is over.”
You’re a bit behind the curve here – with the greatest respect. Since GE2015 when the Tories deployed the “SNP card” in their electioneering in E&W its very hard indeed to find people who don’t believe Scots get subsidised.
As such I’d say the average resident of E&W doesn’t give a damn about Scottish independence. In fact the most likely response is “they want to go then fine, they can pay their own bills”.
They simply don’t care. Just like they got taught the EU was the bogeyman, Scotland is the scrounger.
Going to be an interesting few years 🙂
God now I really do feel bad. Didn’t know about WM bridge. Hope everybody involved will be alright.
Another Tory telling us we knew the result of the 2015 General Election and the result of the EU referendum back in 2014 and voted accordingly.
Hells Teeth.
@Nana 3:34 pm :
“o/t
Wings get a mention and well done to all who have stopped paying for skytv
link to thecanary.co”
Aye but have a word with her eh?
” Wings joins Commonspace and others in a thriving alternative media landscape in Scotland.”
What’s that guff all about? Don’t tell me she chose those words by mistake.
Holyrood suspended following incident at Westminster. to be resumed…
Referendum Debate shut down for absolutely NO good reason!!
What are the odds that this incident at Westminster will be down to a Mad Scot Nat extremist unknowingly put up to it by MI5?
Ive actually been expecting some kind of terrorist related incident to occur timed to coincide with the debates and designed to put Scottish Independence in a bad light.
You cant put it past them.
Interesting that everyone saying Holyrood is doing business as usual. Funny that. You all obviously did not get the memo from SKY News then … business has been suspended. 😉
Should anyone think about watching/listening to SKY News I have some goos news. For everyone who was concerned about the whereabouts of Kay “I’ll keep quiet because there is a helicopter taking off and they can be quite noisy” Burley I can confirm that she has surfaced at the South Side of Westminster Bridge. 😀
link to news.sky.com
Indy debate stopped – political opportunism ?
Can’t see why it was stopped. Seriously its miles way – was there a threat at entrance to Holyrood ???
This is important to Scotland. Can’t agree with that position.
Something stinks.
RT is reporting that the Westminster incident comes exactly a year after the Brussels bombings.
I used to cross that bridge every day on my way home from work and it is always packed with tourists. Hopefully people have not been injured too badly but it doesn’t look good.
Security around the Palace of Westminster is always very tight and it looks like the crash barriers did what they were intended to do – stop anyone getting into Westminster. However, someone did get in, probably on foot as the gates at the front are open to allow cars in and out. However, there are always armed police around in force and reports indicate they shot the intruder, but not before a policeman was stabbed.
Best wishes to all who have been caught up in this incident and I hope my ex work colleagues are all safe and well.
Guys, I think we need to put a lid on the conspiracy theories. We don’t know exactly what has happened and who carried it out.
Given the attack on Westminster it is only prudent that the Holyrood debate should be adjourned. We’ve plenty of time to take that forward.
Westminster and Holyrood Labour Tories and Lieboral Dismalcrats informing us that
Terrorism works and they will give in to it
Now there’s a message lots of people will be delighted with
So Labour are counting on Dugdale, and Dugdale is counting on … her fingers?
No, I’m sorry, it’s a dirty job but somebody has to do it, a case of “Buggin’s turn” I reckon.
Let us hope that in the New Scotland we can be charitable towards those less fortunate than ourselves.
Well at least suspending Holyrood means they can’t be accused of carrying on while Westminster is ‘under attack’. Knowing how the UK media work that’snot a bad thing.
Ok since those moaning (repeatedly), that wanted this disrupted / halted etc got there way, then when it resumes can we please ensure it should go straight to a vote.
Cant put up with any more of this meaningless verbose unionist posturing.
Sad as it is for those affected by the regrettable incident in London, lets remember it was in ‘London’ and along way away from Holyrood business
Totally needless stoppage regarding important business.
Mike @ 4:03… They are sneakier than that… My prefdiction is Irish. Just a hunch.
Mike @ 4:03… They are sneakier than that… My prediction is Irish. Just a hunch.
Heart goes out to everyone affected at Westminster.
And as for those responsible and those who put them up to it: I hope the authorities hunt you to the ends of the earth, and drag you before a court to answer for what you’ve done.
Welsh Assembly still in session.
The attackers didn’t get inside the Parliamnet so it is the policemen and innocent passersby that are the concern.
Hovever MPs are tweeting furiously about where they are and in which room they are in. If the attack had been inside that would be extremely stupid.
One man apparently manages to shut down the democracy of Westminster Holyrood and the Welsh assembly which was exactly his intention in the first place.
Terrorist wins. He has singlehandedly shut down the governance of these islands.
Have we become so afraid?
Today is the first anniversary of the terrorist attack in Brussels which killed 32 people. I’d say this is ISIS’s way of celebrating it.
Roboscot says:
22 March, 2017 at 4:14 pm
Well at least suspending Holyrood means they can’t be accused of carrying on while Westminster is ‘under attack’. Knowing how the UK media work that’snot a bad thing.
within seconds the mirror had a smear piece out(now altered to reflect the suspension):
link to mirror.co.uk
Vestas: re Ian Hislop and Private Eye.
I stopped buying the publication a long time ago because of its inaccurate and sneering comments about Scots and Scotland.
When I used to watch HIGNFY, I was particularly pleased when Merton reminded Hislop one night that he was Welsh. Poor wee Ian looked very unhappy. Must be an insult in England.
News just in: as I type I’m listening to Pravsasound4 and The Media Show, I think. Anyway, in case you’re worried, the nice lady is telling us that the BBC puts impartiality at the heart of its political coverage.
Somehow, words simply lose their meaning at times like this.
Last year some folk were in London on a sports trip. Stayed in accommodation with a view over Westminster Bridge. The Bridge was shut off. Police cars and ambulances with flashing lights standing by at night. Boats hovering in the Thames. St Thomas’s Hospital is nearby Across the Bridge at the other side. They thought it might be something to do with an emergency.
Looked up twitter and a person was standing on the Bridge threatening to jump off. Commit suicide? They eventually did jump off. Died? There was reports they were trawling the river for a body. A person with mental health problems. Homeless? Seemingly it is a frequent occurrence. Homeless people sleep under the Bridges. Vulnerable people can be confused and do not know where to get help. Or if help is available.
The guy that killed Jo Cox had mental health problems. The Council were going to evict him from his home where he had lived for 30? years. Previously with his mother who had died. She had cared for him. The ‘bedroom tax’?
Yon Cole-Hamilton is an arrogant pompous self-important little prick.
Well at least we’ll have a new theme tomorrow.
We cant be Independent because its unsafe.
Too wee Too poor and Too stupid to prevent terrorism.
@Vestas says: 22 March, 2017 at 12:38 pm:
“She’s definitely got worse since she went to the USA for her brainwashing course last year. No doubt at all.”
Naw! Couldn’t have been the USAsian Brainwashing at fault.
The USAsians are very thorough with the brainwashing. They are super-efficient at the brain rinsing too.
Mind you it could be the result of the spin drying cycle and final tumble dry that had something to do with it.
Mike and Brian McHugh
Shut up about stupid conspiracy theories. Are you completely paranoid? Wait for some clarity before making up daft theories.
Sometimes wicked things are done by wicked people.
Terrible news from London. I was there this morning and only decided to leave just after lunch due to the pouring rain. No doubt some poor, innocent people and tourists will be caught up in the mess that is now our world. Sad.
@Robert Peffers 4:54 pm :
“Mind you it could be the result of the spin drying cycle and final tumble dry that had something to do with it.”
That always causes a build up of fluff 🙂
Its a bit weird that nobody in the media are reporting any details about the attacker.
Why aren’t they telling us if he’s foreign or home grown? Islamic or not?
They must know the basics about him by now. Young Old middle aged motivation? Anything?
Usually we get something about the attacker at this stage.
Fireproof
Speculation is all we have as the media is being a bit unusually circumspect in reporting any details about the attacker.
Of course it could be a ploy to get the MPs and Lords out of the safe and secure Parliament into the open as a large body of targets?
The presiding officer was correct to postpone the debate.
People have died. Let’s show some respect.
Video from Alex Salmond – A light in the Darkness link to facebook.com
What happened in WM is a tragedy for the people injured but twitter is going mental just now blaming the SNP for not closing after the incident.
Welsh Ass did close but later
That brainless bitch Lennon stirring it up saying SNP groaned when Holyrood suspended.
This of course encouraged loads of complaints about Nicola. saying hope the newspapers have it in for her tomorrow, she’s anti-English blah,blah,blah,
If she’s making that up, she should be suspended herself
Aye well the English parliament shuts early for the day and that stops business 400 miles away ok .
A piece earlier in the thread by Caltonjack got me wondering i am sure i have seen it somewhere before on wings , Just exactly how many tories have been elected by voters and not placements by the way of the list system , I know Fraser-Carlaw_Tomkins were never actually voted for by the public , but anyone know how many of the others sneaked in the back door ? just as a matter of interest .
Twitter is taking longer to load. Loads on twitter.
The attacker has been show on a stretcher getting medical attention. With a medical mask on his face. Oxtgen. Asian appearance. 40ish. White open shirt. Brown jacket, grey trousers and black shoes on. He has died.
Glad to hear you’re safe Meindevon.
Unfortunately during the day Westminster Bridge is pretty busy … all those furriners taking photos and stuff I believe. Sad to hear about the injuries and allegedly two deaths. One person is being reported as being pulled from the river Thames alive.
If it is possible for there to be a good bit of news about this incident it is that there is a hospital almost next door to WM, just across the Thames and Scotland Yard HQ is also within 5 minutes of WM.
Our thoughts must surely go out to everyone directly and indirectly affected by this incident.
Robert Graham
23 Tories are List MSPs.
Fireplacejim, ok. I’ll hold off with the speculation. You cant blame anyone for speculating though. There seems to be a lack of info like Mike said. They knew who did 9/11 in a shorter time. There is also precedent. Just search on Youtube for ‘Panorama Britains Secret Terror Deals’
Scottish witness being interviewed via an interpreter.
Counter terrorism 101. Never give in to the terrorist and always minimise the effect on society.
The one detail I share with Maggie Thatcher. Too much terror being reported and thus validating the actions of this loony. Calm down and sustain as much normality as possible.
This has been a terrible incident with several people seriously injured.
Mike and brian, show respect and stop with the tinfoil hat conspiracy.
Approximately 2174 people in the UK die every day from coronary heart disease, stroke and cancer alone. That’s 90 people every hour. No parliament in the UK AFAIK has ever been suspended due to their deaths.
To adjourn parliamentary business at Holyrood out of respect for those who died in today’s incident in London, while ignoring the 90 who also died around the same time around the UK, is bordering on the bizarre .
Was business at Westminster suspended over the bin lorry deaths in George Square?
If it was FPTP in Scottish Parliament. Possible figures? Opposition would have had 14 seats . SNP
Would have the rest? Total of 129 seats? Less 14 = 115. Take away number SNP has now. Those left be roughly will be number of opposition list seats. Less Davidson and Harvie – 2. They were elected?
Or just look up the Scottish Gov website.
It will just be a technicality. To reconvene and vote. Take less than an hour. Tomorrow? Re IndyRef2.
liz says:
22 March, 2017 at 5:16 pm
That brainless bitch Lennon stirring it up saying SNP groaned when Holyrood suspended.
This of course encouraged loads of complaints about Nicola. saying hope the newspapers have it in for her tomorrow, she’s anti-English blah,blah,blah,
Yes. Never one to miss an opportunity to have a go. SNP bad, etc,etc etc.
Quite right that Scottish Parliament suspended. MSM would have gone off the scale if they hadn’t.
RT has live report from London:
link to rt.com
Witness skills failing. The attacker did not have on a white shirt or a brown jacket. Black open shirt, dark trousers and no shoes on. On a stretcher getting attention. It might not even be the attscker but a passer by.
Maybe best just to wait and see what is happening than guessing. Sad for those involved and the families now bereaved.
A serious incident quite near the Westminster parliament stops one of the most important debates that Holyrood has ever had.
Meh.
There is always tomorrow.
Mind you, 7/7 didn’t stop the Westminster parliament in its tracks, but then there weren’t MPs cowering in well protected rooms…
RT reporters just said Scotland might have to think again about Indy as we might not e able to defend ourselves from terrorist attacks ffs!
At it already. News report asking if Scotland can protect itself After today’s events. These scum will make political capital out of anything or anyone.
Or being “evacuated” in silver Jaguars.
Brian @ 5.20 thanks for the Imfo wasnt sure of the total i knew there were more than the 3 stooges i mentioned Tomkins-Fraser_Carlaw .so much noise and table thumping from people who really shouldn’t be there .The unelected .
Scotland won’t be able to defend itself against terrorist attacks ?
John Smeaton !!!!!!! Armed only with two fists and two feet and a head.
It’s as if the UK has become one huge psychiatric ward, in which everyone has an equal say. But when it is put to a vote, the patients, being in the majority, prevail.
This is what Ruth Davidson calls a ‘mandate’.
Kay Burley on Sky News
“there has been a terrorist attack on the mother of all Parliaments”
She actually just said that a minute ago.
TV is going off.
The Presiding Officer will convene a meeting of Parliamentary Business Managers in the Scottish Parliament tomorrow to consider rescheduling this afternoon’s debate.
Considering the police have said they do not have enough information, both the police and media seem pretty certain it is terrorism related. Is there not just a teeny possibility that it was just a mentally ill man?
Scotland will not be bombing countries for profit. I think that’s a pretty good defence from genuine terrorists.
Funny how the ‘conspiracy theory’ meme habitually gets trotted out to stifle any critical thinking that may be going on.
Cui bono..?
From the inventor of BetterTogether. No tragedy cant be used, by schlubs like,
Blair McDougall Retweeted
Nick Eardley?Verified account @nickeardleybbc 34m34 minutes ago
Met: Our strength as a city depends on our ability to stand together
No problem with the debate being postponed for a day or two. The vote is a foregone conclusion and the actual referendum will not be for at least 18 months. A couple of days makes no difference. Reschedule it for the 29th and we can have the A50 and the Referendum launched on the same day.
My only concern is that I don’t like over-reactions to terrorism. The terrorists win if we re-order our lives every time they mount an attack. The more we stay unblinking the less point and less effective their attack. The more we go into over-drive the more attractive a follow up attack is.
Just my opinion. As I said, it makes no difference to Parliamentary business, that will be done and dusted soon enough.
To any politician or individual who is twisting today’s events at WM into an attack on SNP , re Holyrood parliament NOT being suspended immediately , then I say it is more THEIR shame that they should, at a time where people have been injured and killed, seek to politicise this tragic event.
For any decent person , politically engaged or otherwise, I would imagine will find this discourse distasteful and unworthy of consideration. The question is ‘Is the death of innocents an appropriate time to score political points’ ?
Is this what we have become ? Where Trolls on twitter can abuse tragic events to try and score a political unionist point . If any politician or journalist endorses and reiterates the sickening abuse that is being perpetrated by those who are trying to distort what happened in London and the subsequent reaction at Holyrood into a SNPBAD agenda then THEY truly are the real problem within our society and let it be to their eternal shame for promoting hate over humanity.
My thoughts and prayers go out to those people and their families who were tragically affected by today’s events….for I am a HUMAN first and foremost and thus react accordingly to such news as occurred today. To the people of London I say be strong and my thoughts are also with you all at a time where you must be so very afraid and in shock . Please be safe and I and others reach out to you all at this awful time.
HandandShrimp
Today has been the highest threat, with the highest possibility and we’ve been warned over and over by UK security services. Its shocking to think its not happened more often.
From what little that’s being reported it doesn’t sound like terrorism to me sounds more like a disturbed individual losing his mind.
Maybe she took the 1,231 days, calculated the working days (879), then took off 6 weeks for seasonal breaks?
I think we’ll be guessing for more than 847 days at that one.
2 perspectives:
A lone chaotic terrorist, outside Westminster responsible for the murder of some innocent people but dealt with quickly by the force of law.
Many organised terrorists, inside Westminster, responsible for the deaths of thousands of men, woman and children protected by the force of law and not held to account.
Torcuil Crichton under lock down.
SNP bad, eventually.
I remember when the News used to report what they knew (facts)… Now, if the police state that they are treating it as (read treating it as if it is) a terrorist attack, the BBC etc start repeating it as actual fact.
BBC shortbread, looking for quotes in Westminster doesn’t actually get any Scots MPs.
There are quite a lot.
@Clapper57
Well said.
@Luigi says: 22 March, 2017 at 5:12 pm:
“The presiding officer was correct to postpone the debate.
People have died. Let’s show some respect.”
Do you mean we should show some respect for the dead like how Westminster does for the many deaths they have been directly responsible for? In every Scottish Winter the death rate among the most vulnerable people in Scotland sharply rises and is identified by coroners as being related to cold conditions.
Then there is the high death rate among, mainly dusky skinned Middle Eastern poor people as a result of the bombs that the UK either drops or have provided for others to drop. Did you mean that kind of respect for the dear, Luigi?
As per Channel 4 news, it was Abu Izzadeen. Already well known to the police as an extremist and prevented from leaving the country last year.
Very sad events today.
Kay Burley’s “mother of all parliaments” is strange, even for her, even for Sky.
Is the oldest not the Icelandic and then the Manx?
Alternative facts?
Sheesh! I always turn off the text predictor in Windows 10 and every time I get a cumulative update the damned thing turns itself back on again. This time it has changed the word, “dead”, into, “Dear”.
You would think by this time Microsoft would know it is a flawed concept. A spell check is more than good enough but even that is flawed.
Joannie, not according to Andrew Neil. Abu Izzadeen is still in jail.
The media and Government are still talking in terms of definitive terrorism but as yet no details of the attacker.
It still looks like an individual acting on his own attacking armed police officers with a knife.
This has all the hallmarks of a mentally ill disturbed person not a determined terrorist with an agenda.
I’m starting to think we are being cynically manipulated by the establishment trying to increase our fear and wariness levels in order to bring in even more stringent anti terror legislation and restrictions.
This kind of follows on from the increased airport security with regards to laptops and electronic devices.
@ Robert Graham
Jackson Carlaw was elected for Eastwood last year, having previously been a list MSP. (The defeated incumbent got in on the list and is now Presiding Officer, alas.)
In this modern era of social media when something unpleasant happens no matter where it is or who it happens too a code of conduct has embedded itself into the social psyche of expressing well considered amounts of respectful grief in order to preserve onself from an onslaught of abuse from the people expressing the most respectful grief, and in a more public way than anyone else and more quickly in order to avoid the abuse for not responding quickly enough from the most quickest of responders
Events themselves are now being diminished by the commentariats desires to comment on the events in ways which elevate themselves above the actual events
In short whatever the event, if you don’t get “Boy I feel really bad” out quickly enough and heartfelt sounding enough you’re practically a criminal and are bound to be attacked by the nice people
It’s a strange world the world of social media
Please don’t attack me
Jon Snow, C4 teatime news, today’s terror attack has caused Nic Sturgeon’s “day of defiance against Westminster” to be postponed.
Can they get any dirtier, UKOK hackdom? Sure.
@Brian McHugh – Channel 4 news saying the same thing now, Izzadeen’s still in prison.
I see that Joannie. Wow. So much for all the anti-terror intel and Cobra meetings blah blah. They couldn’t even stop a guy that they knew about and had in jail.
Jesus Christ BBC now trying to link the attack to ISIS without a shred of evidence or even thin threads to connect the 2.
They cant do jack shit without pushing misinformation.
Some news broadcaster.
OH f/k STV really taking the piss now an Enguland friendly aye thats Number one on my list tonight , get ready for the Dam busters tune before kick off .
Thanks Arbroath.
I worked in London at the height of the IRA bombings. I missed Hyde Park bomb by half an hour, remember a few evacuations for suspect packages, and was ‘locked down’ myself in a place of work due to a suspected bomb in Garrards on Regent St. It was scary times looking back.
It made me look back and look up terrorist bombings in London on google and I was really shocked to see just how many there were in the eighties and nineties. Dozens. I’m sure we have all forgotten too easily those times. Without wishing to make light of what happened today, we do not have anything like the attacks we used to have thanks to the ‘troubles’, thank god.
But we all got on with it. You had to. It was work and I was there because there was not a lot of it at home. (Mind you, I would be terrified if it were my kids there working back then.. I must have put my parents through the mill!)
The criticism Sturgeon is getting today is disgusting politicising. She would have been damned if she did and damned if she didn’t. Still, it’s always better to be safe rather than sorry.
A lot of scripts for the remainder of the debate being rewritten tonight probably. Who will do a Jamie Greene and make political capital tomorrow? A journo or a Tory?
So many of Holyrood’s MSPs are on their phones or tablets all the time I’m surprised they can concentrate on anything, so probably they had to stop. Would have liked for a statement of defiance and strength to have been made though.Not surprised by any of the usual dross by the Yoons.
Angry Salmond continues to act as a cheer leader for the perpetually affronted and sanctimonious.
Switched it all off around 5pm, watching Netflix now. Twitter was getting obnoxious.
I’m so sorry for everyone hurt in today’s incident, and sorry for those families that lost a loved one.
Remember the rule when talking about the perp. If they have brown skin of any hue, they are a terrorist. If they are white, then it’s a lone wolf.
Back to Netflix.
@Robert Graham
————
Actually it was Deutchland, Deutchland uner alles..
That should be uber alles
If this is a terror attack it’s worth bearing in mind that the very standing up to terror reaction might actually be the aim of an attack. Bonus points if you can provoke an over reaction.
I was literally around the corner when the (one & only) IRA bomb went off in Leicester. Probably about 150 yards away – police forgot about an alley I came through when they were cordoning off the area. I just turned around & went back the same way when it went off. I don’t remember being particularly bothered about it but I was a lot younger then & you think you’re indestructable for a few years 🙂
I don’t think people were tougher then, I just think they knew less. Today with the internet and 24/7/365 news channels people are a lot more aware of what’s going on.
Crazycat thanks for the correction , my heart felt apologies go out to Mr Carlaw , i must have become confused after following his many failed attempts at political office and after reading about his startling business career , i totally misjudged a born winner there , ok one got through it dosnt absolve the ones who are there when they failed , just like darling Ken the presiding officer .Then again the SNP have probably benefited from this daft system in the past that dosnt mean its a good system .
@Tinto Chiel says: 22 March, 2017 at 7:27 pm:
“Kay Burley’s “mother of all parliaments” is strange, even for her, even for Sky.”
Och! Tinto Chiel, the English always claim to be the originators of everything. They call their Football, “The FA”, and refer to that of Scotland as, “The SFA”. Yet the very first recorded football Club was in Edinburgh and it played its matches on the Meadows.
The documents that record this are still in existence and they not only record the club meetings and so on but they contain a written set of rules. Not only that but Queens Park set out the written Football Association Rules before those of the English Football Association game.
Furthermore the so called, “Scotch Professors”, were Scottish players who signed up for English Clubs to teach them how to play, “The Passing Game”. Previously the English game was like a primary school playground game.
The keeper booted the ball out and the whole lot, both teams, chased after it. Only for someone to boot the ball back up the park and everyone chased after it again.
If you check out the history of the older and larger English Clubs you will find they were often begun by Scots and their pennants & club coats of arms often include Rampant Lions. For example Chelsea was started by a Scot and features a Blue Lion Rampant. Man United has a red Lion Rampant.
maybe the numbers are coming from kez,s magic money tree
I’m sounding a bit Lib Dem, but I’m split right down the middle. I totally get people suspending the debate as a mark of respect, but I equally have no axe to grind with people who want to carry on with business and stick two fingers up at the terrorist.
It was probably a good call, because the media would use it as a smear against us if parliament continued to sit.
When I think of the families grieving their loss tonight, then yeah. Cease business for the day. But when I think how cowardly it is to drive a vehicle into a crowd of people, then pull out knives to stab people, then I feel angry, and think business as usual is the best way to frustrate and belittle the cowards intentions.
There’s a sickness to these ISIS people, a mental malfunction. When you see their bestial executions and depraved theatrics, I cannot see what they think they are achieving. Its wrong to call them terrorists, because they’re not terrifying, they are simply disgusting. Disgustists?
They crave some kind of twisted revulsion which is so obscene, it confounds rational argument. To be crass, I don’t see what it achieves beside easing the conscience of military jet pilots who needn’t lose too much sleep dropping bombs killing sickos. No good will ever come from this. No peace in Heaven or Earth.
@ Robert Graham
It was meant as information rather than correction.
I believe Mr Carlaw is a used-car salesman. I’m sure there are many decent such, but when I was growing up it was the byword for untrustworthiness.
Q. What to do when a lying media, devoted to fake news, actually has to report a real event?
A. No change required. Do as you’re told. Spin everything to suit the Establishment. Never report the truth – it will be the death of us.
ot
interesting article about what happens if treeza refuses the section 30
link to commonspace.scot
“he SNP is not going to sit idly by, if the UK Government position does not concede granting an Section 30 order I highly anticipate that the SNP would collapse the current Holyrood administration and call an election of its own. The election would be fought to seek a mandate.
Has May considered it may be for more than just a Section 30 agreement? Having put the idea of mandate front and centre, an SNP election campaign on “making the people sovereign” and to “exercise the democratic will of the people” is fairly likely.
As such, the SNP would undoubtedly seek permission to ask again for Section 30 powers, but it is unlikely to stop there. Its mandate could seek to go further if Section 30 was still denied.
Permission to unilaterally walk away from the union could be sought under those circumstances, with the caveat that there was an immediate referendum on
rejoining the UK.”
ARGGGHHHHHHHH
would we need to rebrand as NO?
Robert Peffers
22 March 7.27
Arsenal was founded by a Fifer from Burntisland. Danskin or something like that.
@ Crazycat @ Robert Graham – calton jock did an interesrting article on Jackson Carlaw recently. Quite depressing:
link to caltonjock.com
Respect.
There’s a thread in the Herald about the suspension of Holyrood and some of the comments are so disgusting, making political capital out of a tragedy, it’s unbelievable.
Today 1 woman was killed, 3 French schoolchildren injured and several other people seriously injured, there was one other unknown person died, as well as the murderer. And one armed policeman described as some “security expert” on ITN as “Mr Plod”, also died of multiple stab wounds, doing his job.
And I come on here to read the comments and regrettably some posters are just as disgusting as those on the other side have been about the SNP on the Herald, making political capital out this tragedy. Think before you post or please destroy your posting equipment and do something else for your kicks.
Respect.
Robert Peffers: this may predate your game……
link to archive.is
And Aston Villa and Millwall have lions rampant on their badges because of the Scottish connection, I believe.
It’s a funny old game, Saint.
Regarding today’s events , condolences to all those affected, re Parliament believe it was suspended as the MsP’s minds were on other things rather than the program of government they were debating.
During the IRA attracks of the seventies, I was in the RAF, we had quite a few security scares but I can tell you it was more dangerous walking through the streets of Scotland at night than anything I encountered from either the IRA or Riots in Cyprus against the British Military.
it is not my intention to belittle the hurt and despair visited upon friends and families of those who lost loved ones, just a personal recollection, I remember walking between Glasgow Central and Queen St in Glasgow one night and getting chased by a Clockwork Orange Gang complete with Bowler Hats and Swords, another time on a Saturday Lunchtime I was chased by a gang in Dunfermline, first time I had been there, I never went back. I remember seeing people with axes in their heads at Local Dances on Arran after being attacked by somebody called Mumford from Saltcoats. The sixties and seventies were violent times .
So, surprise, the yoons are using today’s awful events to again try to stifle any notion of Scotland being independent. Scare the old folks, or anyone with the bias media piping dross into their living rooms. What a disgrace.
As it is, er, do we feel particularly protected by the UK? I know I don’t, what with wmd’s (not ours) parked a few miles away. So even before we find out who was responsible today, we are told that our, (at present given that we are still shackled to the rUK, non existent army/navy) couldn’t protect us. Hmm, interesting.
Is nobody else even slightly suspicious about the fact that there are no details released about the attacker yet the entire UK establishment is acting as if we’ve been hit by an avalanche of terrorist activity?
They haven’t as yet established a motivation for the attack and yet we are told with surety that its terror related with SKY actually directly accusing IS.
We are witnessing the very epitome of fake news. Nothing but speculative guessing presented as fact.
In fact it sounds like they WANT it to be terror related they are desperate to present it as terror related.
I still think this was a single sick individual losing his mind and acting out his own personal agenda. definitely suicide related. This guy had no intention of surviving this day.
I’m not seeing or hearing any evidence of an actual plan of action. I believe this guy ran over those people on the bridge as a spontaneous act.
None of it makes sense in terms of planning and agenda.
What about the car?
If he used his own vehicle then the Police will have his identity by now if he stole it why hasn’t the media reported the fact that the vehicle is stolen?
The media could find out who the attacker was through the vehicle or find who the vehicle belongs to.
What we’re not being told is more telling than what we are being told.
I get the feeling real news is being repressed.
@ yesindyref2: “Respect…”
I hope you aren’t tempted to flounce and bounce over those comments.
Respect.
It looks like the police have no idea what was going on or who was responsible. Now that the culprit is dead it might be impossible to find out for sure.
Footage from RT of police clearing the area hastily.
link to rt.com
A terrible, shocking event. My thoughts and prayers are with those involved.
https;//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rddRQyBmBkw
It’s bad enough the unelected media trying to run our democracy and politics now we’ve got polling companies trying to set the agenda of our democracy and politics joined up with the Twitterati demanding to be obeyed in our democracy and politics surrounded by greetin faced moaners trying to change the rules of our democracy and politics and if our politicians don’t do as they’re told by all these people everybody’s going in the bloody huff
Jeez!
Guys,
Like YesIndyRef2, I would probably stop discussing the events that took place outside Parliament today.
If you keep on discussing it here, speculating on this, that and everything, then the media will leap on it; especially if people’s speculation get outlandish or accusatory. To do so will only lead the media to tear this site a new one.
We have to remember that innocent people have been killed or seriously injured; some critical so. I don’t believe this evening should be one of discussing politics. Emotions will be running high, especially down south.
I would maybe just leave it tonight, and just stay quiet. To be honest, the events of today have no real bearing on Scottish independence or the debate that was taking place in Holyrood.
Until we know who the perpetrators were, then there is no point in speculating. Leave that to the media.
Tomorrow, Holyrood will reconvene. Let’s just take it from there.
Am I being unpatriotic in wishing that the fekn clock would run a bit faster towards the 90 min mark, just saying like,
Brainwashed or deranged individuals of any race or religion don’t need to act with others to carry out acts of Terror. Given that it was the anniversary of the Brussels attacks and going by photos of the alleged attacker it is not difficult to assume that it is somebody who is either a member or a supporter of Daesh. Anybody else who supposes otherwise, I think your heid is full of mince, and my pals think I’m a Conspiricy theorist 🙂
Mike. The police are not here to give you a personal minute by minute report. When they get the information they will release it. No doubt they are chasing up every lead.
You are still pursuing the tinfoil hat conspiracy/cover up theory. It seems you are desperate to find the authorities are to blame.
I suggest it is either an Al Qaeda follower (There have been plenty of them around Europe recently) or a mentally deranged individual.
However I am prepared to wait for a few hours to find out.
Lenny Hartley
So any terrible act is an act of Terror? Murder? Rape? GBH? ABH?
The judiciary will charge somebody under the Terrorism act ONLY if that act is classified as an Act of Terror.
If its a criminal act of murder they wont.
So how are we supposed to tell the difference?
We rely on the State to make that classification for us.
That’s the scary bit. Because the State itself is not adverse to committing its own Acts of Terror in the name of Defence of the Realm.
Its a mad mad world.
Did anyone else hear John Snow say on the news tonight the attack happened when the Scottish parliament were “DEFYING” Westminster ?
Graeme
Thoughts go out to the families of the victims of today’s tragedy in London.
–
Elsewhere
This needs to be read.
link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
Fireproof
I’m not asking the Police to give me a fucking report I’m expecting the media to report facts not make them up.
I’m comparing the news release with this incident in comparison to the news release of other terror attacks.
By now the focus of the media would be on the perpetrator. Telling us every little detail about him or her.
They have a car. That car is a wealth of news value on its own.
Whos does it belong to? Was it stolen? Does it belong to the perpetrator?
The actual reporting is focused on promoting this as a definitive act of terror without a shred of information with regards to motivation or identity of the attacker.
They are scaring people. Making people more anxious and wary. Not only that they are demonising a specific group of people putting them at risk.
I’m not accusing anybody of being responsible for the attack I’m pointing out some very suspicious media behaviour and discrepancies in their reporting.
Its fake news because its being reported factually without evidence in support of it.
Even if they are right and the attack was a terror attack by IS or inspired by IS they don’t know that! So they shouldn’t be reporting it as FACT!
I know a lot of you folks are busy with the London events today, I have long since given up believing anything from the British media and especially it’s government, so I wouldn’t get into pointless arguments with well meaning people on here , it’s probably a managed distraction, it’s what governments do in order to hide or push through some agenda they have.
I also have a lot of sympathy for those and their families who were affected by today’s events wrong time wrong place probably, it’s a very cruel world.
Breeks @ 8.11
Like you I’m thinking there’s an argument for not letting as far as possible an attack disrupt the democratic functions.
To have continued with Holyroods? business would indeed have shown defiance towards those who would commit this atrocity.
But on balance I think it was right to suspend the debate, mainly because of the content of it.
Part of this particular debate is asserting that Westminster is not a suitable Seat of Government for Scotland, pointing out it’s failures, and it’s shortcomings, Westminster bad in other words, to do so today would have been so very disrespectful.
To then go on to vote in some sense to fire/sack it would have been insensitive and I would want Holyrood to behave with a bit more class.
Keep seeing the word grievance. Politics of grievance, another excuse for grievance, blah blah and usually with SNP in the sentence.
Scotland has the opportunity to do things better, there’s a job of work to get on with, but there are obstacles to be overcome first – what’s it got to do with grievance?
My imagination or is the just a little TOO desperate:
link to bbc.co.uk
HandandShrimp,
“My only concern is that I don’t like over-reactions to terrorism. The terrorists win if we re-order our lives every time they mount an attack.”
We should carry on as if nothing had happened?
Like it or not, we have had no option but to have been forced to drastically re-order our lives in the last 15-20 years.
Thanks to Westminster’s illegal wars.
Mike either stop posting bullshit or think about what you are posting can be turned against us.
Or are you a member of the 77th brigade???????
I was struck by something that Angus Robertson was reported to have said during the traumatic events in London… that he paid tribute to those seen running towards the injured and fallen.The kindness of strangers, all of whom sprung into action to help their fellow human beings in extremis. A surprising amount of our security and safety comes from the kindness of strangers in times of personal tragedy as well as in normal times.
So much heat and speculation and no light. Those who seek to make political capital are devoid of decency and humanity and should be named and shamed.
True Kezia there was a Referendum in 2014 – in which the Labour Party supported and campaigned with the Conservative Party (as did the Liberals), consequently, whereas the Labour Party previously held 38 seats, at the Scottish Parliamentary Election in May 2016 – the Labour Party earned a whopping 24 seats.
SNP 63 – this is of course a much, much, bigger number than 24 (SNP previously held 64 seats) so presumably many former Labour supporters were ‘not happy’ about many aspects of Labour policy – possibly also including Labour policy on Independence.
Con. Party 31 (previously 15) – looks like some Labour supporters voting Conservative Kezia; difficult to see any difference between Labour and Conservative policy perhaps(and the same is true today unfortunately, for Labour),
and Labour, yes Labour, that’s the Labour Party you may recall, voted for the Austerity we currently endure (thanks to Labour (and the Conservatives)).
This you may have realised (though perhaps not) by now, is why there is now a majority of MSPs representing the Scottish electorate in the Scottish Parliament, supportive of Independence – for which we have much to be thankful for. With your help things I am sure, can only get better.
I don’t believe the police in London are as dopey as a lot of people seem to be suggesting. And I don’t believe the conspiracy nonsense either.
The police won’t release any facts until they have followed up any leads they have on who that guy was, who were his friends, who were his relatives, etc.
They will want to have police at all possible locations before they release the culprit’s details to try and stop any other terrorists, assuming that’s what he was, from flying the nest. He may just have been a lone loony. He may not.
Every time a terrorist incident happens in the UK, Parliaments (in Scotland or England) do not suspend business. In N.Ireland many atrocious events happened, and they barely made the ‘UK’ news, never mind closing parliaments.
Yet today, because of a terrorist attack in London, proceedings in the Scottish Parliament were suspended. I have no idea why. Did the banks also close, did the UN close, did the EU Parliament suspend business? No. I do not doubt all of those groups would have been as horrified as those in the Scots Parliament, but they did not close to ‘show solidarity’.
Indeed, if the many years of terrorism in N.Ireland should teach us anything, it is that the more we carry on business as usual, the better. OUR Scots Parliament should set an example.
Today’s events in London were tragic, and the murder of a police officer, who it seems exhibited great bravery carrying out his duty was especially awful, but we let terrorists win, when we, who are not under attack, wilt under pressure.
Terrorists aim is to make us ‘suspend normal business’.
Meanwhile in Mainstream media land, their is a veritable orgy of misinformation and generalised ‘made up stuff’ going on – as usual. Then those self same so-called ‘journalists’ girn and whinge when nobody takes them seriously anymore.
I have lived long enough to remember many losses of life. Hungerford, Dunblane, IRA bombings, Derek Bird. Denis Nelson, Fred West.
They all horrify for different reasons, but ultimately for the same reason. Innocents lost their lives.
Remember them in your thoughts tonight. There but for the grace of God etc etc.
It does not matter who did it this time or why. What does matter is the loss of life and severe injury, and people’s lives damaged forever.
There are no winners in these situations. No rationality for such actions. Only losers.
just in
catching up
a word of advice
STOP
Am I missing hearing the reports from BBC?
They go on and on about how secure Parliament is and how this terrible act is a threat to the existence of the place. . How this vehicle got so close to the very very heart of our centre of democracy.
I’m not hearing much about the 3 members of the public who were killed and the many people seriously injured just walking down the street.
Brian Wilson just will not go away
link to caltonjock.com
Handandshrimp @6.42 pm and Clapper57 @ 6.45 pm : Both well said.
My thoughts and prayers go out to those who have been killed and injured in London today, to their loved ones and everyone who helped.
Peace and love folks, remember that always, peace and love.
Breaking news from BBC – It was Colonel Mohammed on the bridge with the dagger.
There’s a high probability that many MSPs know some of the MPs who as far as they knew were in danger from an ongoing attack. Certainly plenty of reasons for them to be unable to concentrate on what they were doing.
Strategically though the attack will be on all front pages tomorrow with a small summary of Holyrood authorising the S30 application and an excuse to ignore any arguments in support of the decision had the vote been held as planned.
I steeled myself to watch yesterday and FM was at her usual devastating best, then came Davidson with her ‘Bowler Hat Brigade’ lodge(d) behind her sprouting her usual diatribe of rubbish and lies, next up was Kez and I lost my will to live so I went and mad a cuppa getting back in time for one of Patrick Harvie’s best speeches ever. As expected Wandering Wullie was dreadful.
As the afternoon progressed I felt that the FM should have presented the motion, heard the amendments then voted – we know the result after-all.
Auld Rock
JLT says: 22 March, 2017 at 9:33 pm:
“Guys, Like YesIndyRef2, I would probably stop discussing the events that took place outside Parliament today.”
Oh! Get real!
There are people dying every minute of every day all over the United Kingdom. Tragically, many of these deaths are avoidable. I highlighted one such fact earlier.
Due to the direct actions, and also inaction, of unionist governments at Westminster over the past several decades.
Mainly for no better reason than financial savings in order to finance either tax cuts for the richest 10% of the population or to finance obscene Weapons of Mass Destruction, many people both right here in the united kingdom and abroad are dying, and not just in numbers you could count on one hand but in multiple thousands.
Disabled people with incurable disabilities forced out to work and dying as a result. Poor people sanctioned for being delayed by a late running bus service and getting so desperate they kill themselves. Old people having died alone with no, “Care in the Community”, provided and only being discovered after months when some neighbour complained about the bad smell.
Baby deaths in maternity units from the results of hard pressed understaffing unable to cope with government cuts.
Avoidable deaths in A&E as there is insufficient staff to attend to them. We read, hear or view about these things every single day.
So, Please, may we have a little perspective?
As I type this someone somewhere is dying due to the present Tory funding cuts and no one turns a hair. There are little hungry children lying tonight in bed in cold unheated rooms because of Westminster government policy.
Now here is a stark fact. The very first thing the Tory Government did upon gaining power was to increase the rate of VAT, add more items to the list of things VAT was due on and they cut the top rate of tax.
FACT :- VAT is an indirect tax and it is a well known economic rule that indirect taxation shifts the main burden of taxation from the richest to the poorest.
That was bad enough without then cutting the top rates of direct tax for the richest 10%.
So spare me the fake outrage and consider the real truth – right now, right this very minute – somewhere in the World Her Majesty’s Armed Forces are engaged in deliberately killing innocent people – even if the actual targets are not innocent people.
Why the hell do you imagine all those foreign human beings are leaving their homes and heading for Europe and a very uncertain hope of NOT BLOODYWELL DYING, and lots of them are dying, just by trying to escape the USA and UK bombs.
I’m not belittling the tragic deaths of the London incident – all such violent death is tragic – but please – have a little perspective. Did any of the dying babies in understaffed maternity units cause any parliament in the UK to suspend business? I know what I see as the more tragic event.