The Asking Of The Question
At FMQs today, Douglas Ross announced that he was putting down a motion of no confidence in the Scottish Government in the wake of the collapse of the Bute House agreement. That creates an enormously interesting situation, because the arithmetic of Parliament is extremely finely balanced, and particularly in the light of Patrick Harvie’s subsequent contribution.
In short, what it means is that the future of the government hangs on Ash Regan.
The SNP have 63 MSPs as things stand, while the opposition – excluding Regan and the Presiding Officer – have 64. (Because of course, as of this morning the Greens are officially an opposition party again, and Harvie’s barbed comment definitely seems to imply that they would act as such.)
If Regan supported the government in a confidence vote, and all other votes went as expected, the government would almost certainly survive – the vote would then be 64-64 and convention is that the PO’s casting vote in the event of a tie goes to preserve the status quo, although as far as we know it’s not obligatory that it does.
But if Regan abstained or voted against, the government would fall.
An extremely well-placed source told us this morning, however, that Regan would vote with the government, which seems an incredibly bizarre move.
Firstly because opposition parties should ALWAYS, in principle, vote for an election. Why wouldn’t they? They’re not in power and they want to be. Now, Alba’s polling at the moment suggests that winning any seats would be a tall order, and Regan might well lose her own, which on a personal level is obviously a significant risk to take when you’ve got a guaranteed job for the next two years.
But that’s not what politicians are MEANT to be motivated by.
Alex Salmond, Alba’s leader, is famously a gambler always willing to put things to the test, and it would be somewhat out of character for him to shy away from the fight. Perhaps he’s still haunted by the memory of 1979, when the SNP lost 9 of 11 seats after being blamed (wrongly) for bringing down James Callaghan’s fatally-wounded Labour government.
But Alba has very little to lose compared to the 1979 SNP, and with a very fractured Parliament likely to result this would seem an ideal opportunity to try to gain the party some more influence, even if only a couple of regions delivered a seat. When all the big parties are weak to one degree or another – and they certainly are right now – a PR electoral system can produce great results for the smaller ones.
(And Alba could hardly be blamed for losing a pro-independence majority, because we know the Greens’ support for independence is purely notional and transactional. Alba are at least as entitled to expect votes from indy supporters as the Greens are.)
More to the point, it’s absurdly obviously not credible to sit around quite rightly slagging off the SNP for having no plan for independence, and indeed for giving up on any meaningful pursuit of independence, and for all their countless failings of domestic governance, if you then turn around and vote to keep them in power for another two years of useless inaction and incompetence.
Every single subsequent criticism would be hurled straight back in your face – by indy voters and mocking Unionists alike – with a “but they’re only still in power because of YOU!”, and plainly justifiably so. Two years of that would be miserable and damaging. The circumstances aren’t ideal but this is probably as good a moment as Alba will get.
As we write this, a Twitter poll of Wings followers seems to resoundingly agree.
It is, of course, this site’s firmly-stated view that the SNP are now the enemies of, and the biggest obstacle to, independence, and that only their destruction will enable progress. Alba has taken a more conciliatory stance, and still appears to be hoping primarily for the second votes of SNP supporters, despite the extraordinary hostility with which most SNP activists regard the party and the stubborn refusal of the polls to detect any notable advancement since its formation in 2021.
It’s certainly also worth trying this:
Perhaps Yousaf will be SO desperate to survive that he’ll junk the GRR and the Hate Crime Act and the conversion practices proposals and adopt a serious indy strategy, all in return for Ash Regan’s vote next week. But we doubt it, particularly as he could get a much better return by grovelling to the Greens and offering to double down on all that stuff for their seven votes (or even just abstentions).
And if you’re not willing to have an election, why are you a political party at all? At that point Alba might as well all just rejoin the SNP and try to change it from within.
We can only watch with interest.
Please, please, please, Ash, do the right thing – put the good of Scotland first, bring regaining Scotland’s rightful status a step nearer i.e. collude in ousting the SNP blockers of independence, promoters of child abuse and misogyny, from power.
Alba is supported mainly by people who have already given the SNP a vote of no confidence. It would be political suicide for Regan to now support them.
Alex isnt daft . Playing the long game …
Really thought the Green Imp was going to burst into tears there. Still, mightily upset though he appears, it’ll be interesting to see if his cupidity prevails over his spleen and he chooses to side with the SNP in a confidence vote.
After all, where else could he be sure of a wage equal to his MSP’s salary plus expenses and pension contributions.
I think you’re being a bit unfair, Stu. Living outside Scotland now so won’t say I’m fully caught up with everything, but perhaps a SNP that isn’t being wagged by the Greens changes course on a lot of things, including Indy?
I see bringing down the government, an election, and a Labour-Green-Lib Dem government as an obstacle to indepndence too…
“They might as well all just rejoin the SNP and try to change it from within.”
They? Does that include Salmond himself?
She’s damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t.
Were she to vote against – and that turned out to be the deciding vote (assuming the Greens did vote against the SNP, which personally I doubt notwithstanding) – much of the Indy demographic out there will cries “you’ve brought down a nationalist government”, “you’re a ("Tractor" - Ed) to indy” and so forth.
On the other hand, if she votes in support of the SNP, she’ll face charges of being too weak, maintaining the (rotten to its very core) status quo, SNP Stooge and all the rest, with people asking what is Alba even *for* anyway?
Hobson’s Choice indeed.
Aw christ, is she just another troughing parasite?
We’re about to find out if Ash Regan really cares about independence.
Voting with the SNP is a vote for more of the same – Sally Donald & the careerists ‘Gravy Bus’.
They do not care about independence- do you, Ash?!
We’re about to find out if Ash Regan really cares about independence.
Voting with the SNP is a vote for more of the same – Sally Donald & the careerists Gravy Bus. The shameless troughers.
They do not care about independence- do you, Ash?!
If Ash does not vote against this TransCult Devolution Party then she is finished.
Perhaps she could insist on only backing the no confidence vote if there were a change of leadership in the SNP? That would be interesting and I think it’s a possibility
There is no shortage of either rats or sinking ships in this story. Don’t join them Ash.
I do expect fighting talk from Alba. They are nowhere and in for the long haul so integrity, courage and fighting spirit are their main qualities that might appeal to voters. I hope they don’t throw them away for a mess of SNP pottage.
Oppo parties do not always vote for elections, not if they believe it is not in their interests i.e. they might be skelped.
Expect the Greens to abstain with excuses. SNP lives for another day. SNP MSPs at least pay lipnservice to loyalty to Humza.
Ash? It might depend on whether she divines the Greens’ voting intentions. Really, unless she votes against SNP it will be hard to take her or Alba seriously.
What of the ISP in all this? What is the potential for isp and Alba working together in a scottish election along with some of the indy 4 indy guys too? Could be an interesting time
Those who support independence must take every opportunity to liberate the people – getting rid of a corrupt colonial administration is an essential part of that.
‘#End the Union’ is all the manifesto folk need.
She’ll regret it if she allows SNP to continue
“But if you’re not willing to have an election, why are you a political party at all?”
You are right, as always.
But a Holyrood election now will mean that Alba (and ISP) will have to fight two huge elections in one year, not just one.
That is a very tall order for small parties with little resources and having to fight face on against the establishment. When you have to spread your resources so thin, it is unlikely you can make big wins.
Personally, if I was Ms Regan and the survival of the SNP gov relied on my vote, I would exploit the opportunity it gives to the maximum and to deliver the biggest advantage for the yes movement.
In my personal view, forcing a Holyrood election now will not deliver the biggest advantage for the yes movement when there is a GE fastly approaching.
In my view, the biggest advantage would be to find a way to ensure an anti-union supermajority in 2026.
Ms REgan could offer to save the SNP gov on the no-confidence vote in exchange for the SNP ditching their calamitous “SNP 1 and 2” and calling instead a SNP1 + Alba/ISP 2 to give that supermajority a chance.
If the SNP has not collapsed the BHA deliberately to crash the SNP gov and force a unionist majority into Holyrood (I would not be surprised at all if this is what they really intend, TBH), then I think Ms Regan would have a strong chance to succeed.
Yes, in an ideal world. But Alba have focused too much over the last three years on attacking the SNP and dealing with “internal issues”, and not nearly enough on building the brand. They are in no shape to fight a Holyrood election, so bringing down the SNP would be suicidal. While this is no-one’s fault but their own, I don’t see how a principled suicide actually helps the independence cause. It certainly won’t attract ex SNP voters who are already hostile to Alba and are most likely to blame the messenger. Maybe better, for now, to work on leveraging positive results from their casting vote.
Who don’t we want? Having wee Eck back would be no different than Sturgeon. Remember how much he wasted of taxpayers money trying to create his own private castle at Governor’s House.
Then we have the issue of having trust from civil servants. And I doubt he carries any. Time for new leaders not old has beens.
Time for those who really want independence stop living in the past. Are we really the same as the Tories recycling the same old leaders.
If Ash Regan holds the power I’d hope her price for saving the SNP would be for the SNP to support her Bill of a referendum on more powers to the Scottish parliament and to include the constitutional question being addressed at Holyrood not Westminster.
If ALBA votes for SNP Govt. then I quit ALBA.
The ‘Scottish Government’ is the equivalent of an Amazon distribution depot delivering orders taken in London to the Scots.
It’s an order distribution depot tarted up to look scottish and with a sort of wee governy vibe aboot it – but it isn’t Amazon HQ.
It’s a deliberate confusion foisted on the Scots and is worse than useless to them.
It’s a distraction from the real problem Scotland has – that she’s a colony of England and is being ransacked under the cover of a Scottish Government designed to be incompetent (so we Scots look stupid) and that is in reality the English Government entire.
Better we didn’t have a parliament in Holyrood at all and be openly ruled directly from London.
Then the Scots would know who is really to blame for everything wrong in Scotland; maybe then they’ll wake up start doing something to save their country before England nicks it completely, and everything in it.
In an election year is it really credible that Ross would steal his superior’s thunder by forcing a Holyrood election? Quite a few of his MSPs are already in the home straight to forced retirement and no more eager to finish early than anyone else.
It’ll only take a couple of “pricipled” abstentions to keep everyone’s career path on track.
“In an election year is it really credible that Ross would steal his superior’s thunder by forcing a Holyrood election? Quite a few of his MSPs are already in the home straight to forced retirement and no more eager to finish early than anyone else.
It’ll only take a couple of “pricipled” abstentions to keep everyone’s career path on track.”
I would be some distance beyond astounded if any Unionist MSPs abstained.
ALBA appear to have similar problems to the SNP re constitution, NEC and rigged votes.
The HR bog desperately needs flushed. Its currently blocked full of turds.
Problem is, there are more turds coming afterwards. Whilst everybody agrees the SNP at HR and the Tories need flushing at WM, the prospect of both being replaced by Uniparty Red at HR and WM is thoroughly unappealing.
Interesting that auntie macbeebie, reporting the no confidence arithmetic, resolutely omits any mention whatsoever of Ash/ Alba… also (amusingly) they continue to regurgitate the lie that the Scottish greens are pro-independence. Ash is caught in a very awkward position. Maybe a couple of abstentions (snp or green) are going to be the deciding factor.
Two days ago Ash Regan tabled a motion of no confidence in Hatrick Pervie due to Pervie’s dismissal of the Cass Report conclusions.
Time for Alaba to do some horse trading!
I see this as an opportunity for Alba to do a deal with the SNP for support in the list vote in an election.
Call an election now and with SNP for the main and Alba for the list, we’ll have virtually no Unionists MSPs left.
Why would Ash and Alba not support the SG? They would be in the position of the 79 vote. The alternative would be a unionist take over. Whilst an opposition politician, she is an Indy supporter and that should be the priority. Hi 7 independence would be dead, even although the SNP are nominally only an Indy party. Getting concessions would be the ideal outcome and more movement on Indy is essential.
That would take priority right now.
Fergus Ewing has a history of voting with opposition in no confidence vote called against a government minister… could he be thinking of reprisal for his suspension over that?
Frank Anderson…
“The alternative would be a unionist take over.”
If I could, I’d say this in the style of Morpheus…
“You think the SNP aren’t unionist? Hmmm…”
An extremely well-placed source told us this morning, however, that Regan would vote with the government, which seems an incredibly bizarre move.
She could of course be asking for concessions of Yousaf. What those could be remains up in the air, but she’s got the power to keep a lot of SNP MSPs in their jobs so if the SNP are smart (and as of today they may well be at least smarter than they once were) they’d be wooing Regan to see what’s her position.
I will say I’m impressed today by Yousaf which is something I never thought I’d say these days. I didn’t give him credit for having the courage to end the BHA while essentially telling The Greens to naff off. The Greens had not the slightest intention of ending the BHA, hence the sheer rage from wee Patrick Harvie, Slater, Greer & all their online supporters who are suddenly, cut off from power & influence.
The Greens have been ruinous in government. The GRR was the tip of the iceberg, and they’ve wasted hundreds of millions of Scotland’s limited budget with a series of disastrous policies dreamt up by people so far removed from ordinary people that the contempt for them is dripping. I find Harvie & Slater especially contemptable for calling anyone celebrating the end of the BHA as ‘right wing’ when they’ve been pushing individualist, capitalist policies for the benefit of a few in their time in power. Selling wind power worth billions for a fraction of their worth is as Thatcherite as it comes.
Sadly, thanks to the list system, Harvie, etc are probably safe in their MSP roles for the foreseeable future but if there’s any adults left in The Greens, they should be asking how they’ve made such a mess of their one, and probably only, chance in government?
@ robertknight
Me tae!
What of the ISP in all this? What is the potential for isp and Alba working together in a scottish election along with some of the indy 4 indy guys too?
You’ve seen Life of Brian?
What was it Yousless said about Ash Regan when she defected to ALBA… “no great loss”.
And now she holds his entire government and his tenure as FM in her hands.
It is time Ash, bring them down.
I have avoided this site for many months. I voted for Ash in the election mainly because I wanted to see what difference she would make. I will never vote anything but SNP unless they cease to exist. If Alex God help we who want independence if the Tories get their way.
“‘#End the Union’ is all the manifesto folk need.”
Indeed, Alf.
If Humza were to make Ash minister for independence would that not be enough to retain independence support from the greens (especially if she gives them a Scotland United seat in East Lothian, if worried about a labour surge, or wherever else they might prove strongest*)?
* Not Grangemouth, Sheyland & NE, etc though, just in case.
If Regan were to support a motion of no confidence and trigger an election, then Alba will have no parliamentarians by the end of the year.
As difficult as facing criticism for supporting the SNP Govt might be, I am sure that the leadership of Alba is astute enough to realise that that is a far better position to be in than having no political credibility or platform whatsoever.
Also consider the post-election landscape; likely to be a unionist government with an SNP opposition. Alba would effectively be handing the SNP the freedom to recapture its purpose without the restrictions of government, moving onto the very turf where Alba currently stands.
That may be the best thing for the movement as a whole or it may not. But it is certainly not the best thing for those whose purpose is to grow Alba into something meaningful.
Time is short enough for Alba without artificially reducing it because the SNP finally did the right thing and kicked the Greens into touch.
Ash Regan strikes me as quite similar to Salmond in that she is very strategic minded and she is ballsy, willing to take risks.
If she is reading these comments I say to her, apart from all the strong arguments listed by wings and many others, you have to bring this SNPG down to stop these people going after the children.
The damage they will do to them in two years is unthinkable.
The damage they are doing to Scotland is already off the scale. Two years is an eternity.
Enough.
Time for new leaders not old has beens.
Who? There are none, or at least there’s none who’ll either want the position or would be able to cut through the crap to get into a position to lead. We’re in a time when we’re bereft of leadership, or to be honest, adult leadership as the chances are if Yousaf goes as leader there’s going to be a large section of the SNP pushing for Mhairi Black to become leader which would be a disaster if that happened.
As a slight aside, she’s barely speaking in the Commons only doing so as part of her role when Stephen Flynn isn’t around, and even then all her recent engagements have been about foreign affairs.
link to theyworkforyou.com
New leaders will come, but yes, we’re trapped in a position where the choice right now is bleak.
The day after the SNP lose the v.o.c and is replaced by aggressive Unionists, what then?
Wasted decades and a scroll back to zero with little chance of anything substantive developing in the interim?
The SNP’s imbroglio seems to indicate a decline in active as opposed to passive interest in Scottish sovereignty. An active movement would have presented the current party team with an offer they’d be too scared to refuse.
It was Scots who gave birth to the Unionist idea, they could kill it off now but something psychologically deep seated is restraining such decisive action.
It took the Irish 800 years to get their republic and only when imperial England was becoming weak.
England, sans imperium, is now even weaker…
The link about the motion of no confidence comes back with “Secure Connection Failed” and goes no further. (This might be Bitdefender, I’m not sure).
It can be bypassed by removing the “https://” and replacing it with “www.”. It will then show the archived page with the https:// intact.
It’s a tricky situation. But perhaps the canny way forward is to seek concessions in writing for Ash’s vote, if they agree publish what is gained to people know about it, if they refuse vote no confidence. No reply abstain.
Not for one minute do I think the decision will be Ash’s alone btw!
She’s no chance of being elected in the constituency again but I’d be surprised if her pro-women stance didn’t get enough votes to be returned on the list. There are enough people pissed off with the Isla Bryson, GRRB and Hate Crime Act to pick up votes methinks.
On May 10 Hilary Cass published the findings of her four-year inquiry into the medical disaster caused by too many doctors pretending to believe in the “transgender” myth.
On May 25 (today) Patrick Harvie, forced to choose between admitting that he’d only been pretending all along to believe in the myth and sticking with his act, went for the second option, leaving the SNP on its own as a minority government facing an uncertain future. In the name of the people of Scotland, thank you, Dr Cass!
#End the Union’ is all the manifesto folk need
What’s the economic policy there? How is that going to improve people’s lives? What’s the housing policy? The environmental one? How does that improve education or training for young people, or older people struggling to find work? How does that attract business?
We’ve done slogans in politics. They are completely useless and in many cases recently have led us into complete disaster (take back control) because they’re so vague and meaningless that people just throw what they want to beleive onto them.
If people want independence, and I assume most people posting here do, then actually work out how that’s going to happen or you might as well just join the ‘beleive in Scotland’ crowd.
So the inside source says that Regan will prop up the SNP a party that’s now a unionist party, if that’s the case then Alba is not the way forward and some folk paying attention have already noticed this about Alba, that they are not radical enough to get us over the line.
In anycase I’ll be voting ISP at every election.
Vote ISP to be on the safe side the indy side.
link to crowdfunder.co.uk
It would appear Ash is negotiating concessions in return for her support. Seems to me that’s her best choice. Let’s see what she can wrestle out of them.
John C
The idea is to have a democracy – that thing where parties put forward manifestoes about how they are going to achieve those things you mention and then the people decide who they think will do it best – simples.
This is an opportunity for Regan to send a pretty hefty shopping list over to the SNP, top of which of course is independence, and removing the nutter legislation that’s been ushered in. I suspect that will be a bridge too for the SNP.
We may end up with a Tory/Lab coalition at HR at the same time starmer is trying to tell us he’s honestly not a Tory…
There’s always the possibility of a “rogue” Green who “decides” based on their “conscience” that they couldn’t bring down the “progressive” party, and therefore abstains or votes in support.
I so hope Ash votes to bring an end to this woke sham of a Scottish Government. Yes big risk for her on re election, but SNP vote will fold now and can’t see Greens or Labour picking up many of those who left SNP.
I get where you’re coming from but it would be just as easy to come up with a scenario where Ash Regan brings down the govt, loses her seat, Alba completely loses the battle for hearts and minds forever, and the infighting within the independence movement means independence is practically finished.
No-one really foresaw Yousaf doing this today, so it might be prudent to explore every possible scenario with a principle of charity rather than pile on the pressure. Reading the political auguries should not involve such a rush to judgment.
I would hazard an educated guess that history would not talk about what Alba did in the debacle of 2024 but what Ash Regan did. Her decision to do one thing or the other might make her life very uncomfortable as one side’s hate figure and she doesn’t deserve that. I would not swap her position for all the pickled onion crisps in Scotland.
As far as I’m aware no-one who comments here regularly has held high office in govt or in a party…the calculus on ‘what is to be done’ is not as straightforward as this article suggests when it involves this level of political power.
This article kind of surprised me…politics is the art of the possible…every distinct assertion could be countermanded with an equally valid distinct opposite assertion. We might be facing an epoch-making election where support for independence remains high but the vehicles for independence face decades out of power…why would they effectively vote for an election when Starmer might royally f*** up on a national level and give the SNP a fighting chance of renewing themselves in govt. I don’t believe parties are able to do that but they believe it and that’s what matters.
Hypothetically, could an MSP vote in the Scottish Parliament whilst under arrest?
Ash should demand BHA 2.0 between the SNP and Alba with the following provisos.
1. Ash gets a senior cabinet position
2. SNP stand down candidates in selected constituency. Alba to reciprocate
3. Pigs and unicorns to fly
The Wokist6 Yoon Greens showing their true Quisling colours.
I see
Well Said wings. Great analasys.
I see the Queer Wokist Quisling Greens showing their true treasonous colours and they are red white and blue and not green at all.
If Ash is negotiating concessions in return for her support she should demand the revocation of the Alphabettys anonymity and a judge led (Roddy KC) independent public inquiry with teeth into the Salmond stitch up and Holyrood Referendum Legislation passed with next IndyRef date set for starters!
I seriously doubt the NuSNP can actually afford to fund their Westminster GE election campaign this year, let alone an additional Holyrood one so Ash has the potential to extract some serious concessions or administer a long overdue coup de grace.
I really don’t know which is best but think the concessions probably edge it as I suspect the SNP will be bankrupt by the time the 2026 Holyrood election comes around anyway.
I completely disagree. Alba’s support has to come from SNP voters on the regional list in a Scottish Parliament election.
The malcontents (for want of a better word) have already voted for Alba and weren’t numerous enough. It’s disaffected by effectively pro-SNP voters Alba needs to attract. One thing criticising them, another pulling them from Government. Won’t look good to the pool of voters they need.
I completely disagree. Alba’s support has to come from SNP voters on the regional list in a Scottish Parliament election.
The malcontents (for want of a better word) have already voted for Alba and weren’t numerous enough. It’s disaffected but effectively pro-SNP voters Alba needs to attract. One thing criticising them, another pulling them from Government. Won’t look good to the pool of voters they need.
In addition to my comment above, I’d say it’s an evenly balanced judgement. It’s not certainly not “bizarre”.
Also, Alba isn’t in the business of forming a government. This is the PERFECT time to do what a small party is supposed to do:
extract concessions.
that only works if you are willing to support the government. If you’re declination is set in stone, bugger all can happen.
Obviously.
Personally I’d rather see the SNP dragged through more mud before any election…
looks like the big gay disco social model is over
an old pal of mine used to say – when fascism returns, it will paint itself green … “saving the planet” gives you a freehand to do what you like – destroy industry and agriculture, soak the public
– the authoritarian mindset of the greens has been shown to the world; their faces look genuinely shocked, no longer on “the right side of history”. That’s them done, no one will ever let them back into any situation with real power; you can put a money term on the cost of their failed ideas, they even fucked up the ancient precedent of “taking the ginger boattle back tae the cornershop”.
anything these guys are in favour of, I would at least think twice about –
link to bloomberg.com
at FMQs, Harvie was spicy – there is nothing more vindictive, or vicious than the outraged “queer” – hark at her, I’ll scratch your eyes out … potato man is just getting warmed up, they don’t let it rest, they can harbour a grievance forever
The only acceptable basis for Ash Regan to support the continuance of an SNP government is in return for concessions Humza is never likely to give, nor would it be sensible to expect him or his replacement to honour any such commitments.
If – and it’s a big if – they agreed to a list of Alba demands, to a “United for Scotland” platform for future plebiscitary elections, there might be some argument for it.
It is however vanishingly unlikely he’d want to offer such a deal, or that the Nicophant bitter einders and Candy Floss haired TRA’s who still direct the SNP would allow him or anyone they install instead of him to honour such pledges.
Many of us who have stuck with Alba since its inception, despite its failure to reach escape velocity, have been doing so in hope it would be able to capitalise on an SNP meltdown post Westminster GE and prior to the expected Holyrood GE in 2026. I doubt many of us would be able to stomach a deal with the SNP, at least not on terms the SNP are ever likely to accept.
Alba should help drive a steak through the SNP’s dark heart then gleefully bury it good and deep, not prop it up in government!
Dickie says:
25 April, 2024 at 3:28 pm
Ash should demand BHA 2.0 between the SNP and Alba with the following provisos.
2. SNP stand down candidates in selected constituency. Alba to reciprocate
………………………………….
There’s the SNP / ALBA mindset for you, set out crystal clear.
Do a deal with another party TO DENY ELECTORS THE ABILITY TO VOTE FOR **THEIR** PARTY and candidate of choice, and thereby try to force them to vote for party candidates they would not vote for. I could see this sort of plan back-firing with a vengeance. By and large, Scots are fairly tolerant, sometime too much so, BUT, if the Scots electorate is pushed too far, best to stand back, and maybe look the other way.
Remember, “Nemo me impune lacessit”.
Dear Ash,
In the words of King Théoden of Rohan…
“BRING IT DOWN! BRING IT DOWN! BRING IT DOWN!”
youtu.be/qtVF448xcW4?feature
The extremist, Patrick Harvie has just called the majority of the electorate, reactionaries. This is what these cultists really think of you and your families.
Gordon Millar
Ignored says:
25 April, 2024 at 2:06 pm
Yes, in an ideal world. But Alba have focused too much over the last three years,,’
If Humza is desperate enough for two more years on a FM’s wage then he might be convinced to drop something of particular importance importance to the greens. I would love to see these grifting weirdos start spitting feathers and reveal themselves that bit more. It opens up the second votes for 2026 if nowt else. The ones who hate Alba are more likely in the gender ideology than the Nationalist camp. If they don’t bring down the government but instead extract the removal of the hate crime bill or similar (I would love that) it would get a bit of respect from the punters as well.
The problem Ash would have with her shopping list is, how could she trust Humza to keep his promises to her
As a member of one, he could dismiss all his promises if he got her support
I remember Ann Clywd supported Blairs invasion of Iraq as long as she could be involved in supporting the people for “humanitarian reasons”
I believe Clare Short got some assurances as well
All ditched of course after Blair got his way
I think the Greens wont go nuclear but will get a couple of their team to abstain so Yousless does not loose but get a significant bloody nose.
Regan will likely abstain as well as I think she is a coward.
“the SNP finally did the right thing and kicked the Greens into touch”
This move was well overdue, that is for sure.
However, because of the timing of it, I am not convinced we can say it was “the right thing” to do. How right or wrong it was very much depends on the perspective we (and the SNP) look at it from.
If we look at it from the perspective that the Greens have been a toxic influence and very dangerous for our children and women, then absolutely. It was the right move. But lets not forget, that those clapping for Beth were not only the BHA partners.
The SNP reputation is already gone. I doubt ditching the Greens at this late point in the mandate for government is going to change that because the damage to people’s trust has been too great. BHA or not, the SNP are finished as a credible pro-independence party and this was not just the result of the BHA. Their lack of appetite for independence was evident well before the agreement. The BHA was a good excuse for the SNP to hide their lack of progress towards independence behind.
The BHA is being ditched, but all their unpopular toxic laws have already been passed and/or implemented and will remain in place after the agreement ends. I very much doubt the SNP (or labour or libdems or tories) would be willing to repeal any of those after the collapse of the BHA. So collapsing the agreement changes nothing. The damage has already been done.
The Hate bill, for example, was not even drafted under the BHA. It was drafted and became law under Sturgeon’s government in April 2021. The BHA did not start until August 2021. So they cannot even excuse this hate bill on the BHA.
The money has already been wasted in failed “green” schemes with no result whatsoever. We are not getting that money back, but we will forever remember Slater’s incompetence thanks to the landmark eyesores that the black contraptions near to our supermarkets and designed to be bottle recycling points, have become. A monument to stupidity.
The Principles of the Victims, Witnesses and Justice (Scotland) Bill” already entered HOlyrood and passed by 60 votes to 0 right before Yousaf collapsed the BHA. I am not even sure the removal of juries is something that can be pinned on the Greens. As a matter of fact, not one MSP voted against this. Not one. This includes SNP, Greens, Labour, Tories, LibDems or Alba. This is telling us that none of them really oppose the elimination of juries and transformation of courts into a conveyor belt for the imprisonment of innocent people under the false charge of rape for political expediency. None of those who claim to represent us oppose to using Holyrood as a wrecking ball to destroy Scotland’s legal system to bring it in line with England’s despite the Treaty of Union.
It very much sounds that the BHA has been collapsed not because the SNP has finally realised it is toxic, but rather because the Greens have run their usefulness course and purpose for the establishment: to ensure all these toxic laws and the wrecking of Scotland’s legal system is done by pro-independence parties rather than unionist ones, preserving the latter from oblivion at the next election.
So what could possibly be the point in making a big thing of ending the BHA now that all the nasty legislation is already in place and the rot has irreversibly set in?
1. Political posturing. Another distracting excuse to stall progress towards independence.
2. A very easy escape route for Yousaf, with an opportunity to recycle some of the hopeless grifters currently sitting in Westminster to a seat in Holyrood.
3.Losing the Vote of no confidence will give the SNP a rather convenient opportunity to not be in government when the police finally wins its wrestling against the English crown office and operation snailform snatches the fakeminst to her fingertips.
4. It provides a very, very easy route for unionist parties to take control of Holyrood without having to expose themselves to another election risking entry of more Alba, ISP or I4I MSPs.
Once this man accepted being catapulted to the post of FM so he could hand Scotland’s stone of destiny over to the English king, I am not convinced ANYTHING he does can ever be construed as “the right thing”.
The idea is to have a democracy – that thing where parties put forward manifestoes about how they are going to achieve those things you mention and then the people decide who they think will do it best – simples.
No it isn’t.
How do we, as independence supporters, make this happen? It won’t happen with slogans or saying it’s ‘simples’. It happens by convincing people, and you need to have a series of thought out policies in the first place to convince people. You might make people waving flags happy by saying ‘end the union’ but independence isn’t going to be won if the people aren’t convinced otherwise it’ll be a case of independence becomes something that becomes like Brexit.
The undecided voters are out there. They may, or may not consider independence and we got close a decade ago but we lost partly not because of any conspiracy theory. We lost because we couldn’t convince people it’d work, especially in regards the economics.
And that’s one of the many reasons independence right now is nothing more than a rhetorical tool to either make people feel good about themselves, or as a way for political parties to convince people to vote for them even though they have no intention of fighting for independence.
If I would could give Mr Harvie a WARNING don’t threaten someone with tears in your eyes.
When you watch the clip he looks like he’s angry and is teary.
PhilM @3:25
Looks to me she just became Queen in plenty time to put the king in check..
eg since Craig Hoy thinks it’s just the FM they’ll all be voting against (so that parliament can spend next 28 days voting him back in again?) one of the concessions she could insist on is that Humza does a reverse Boris and brings down his own government – just to give everyone a dress rehearsal on the Scotland United/ defacto referendum strategy before being asked to repeat it at GE..
Meanwhile Greens can easily recover their indy credentials in eyes of the electorate by tabling a motion for a yes/no referendum on same day as the Holyrood one – meaning it’s all done and dusted by the GE in any event
🙂
I get the idea that Alba will be blamed for bringing down Humza’s useless government rather than the real culprits (The greens, the transcult and the nuSNP MSP cowards).
However, a lot of nuSNP MSPs know that ‘their tea is oot’. And an extra 2 years on the gravybus will appeal to them.
Therefore, I expect the greens to get concessions and agree to a ‘confidence and supply’ agreement to prop up Humza. Humza will accept because he’s desperate.
However, if it does come to a vote of confidence, and Ash doesn’t get concessions, then I would vote them out. And you’ll be doing it to protect Scotland’s women and children.
Alba have one seat in a 129 seat parliament. Our only hope of influence is if we can hold the balance of power. By a stroke of luck (thanks again Cass!) we have found ourselves in this position. It would be mental to throw it all away for petty revenge.
We can support the government where agreement can be found. Why wouldn’t we? We just need to ensure we don’t let them take us for granted. Let’s help them to do a better job for our country.
I think we are extremely lucky to have Ash Regan in this position, as she is both principled and brave but also carries a lot of good will due to her prior work. I wish her the very best.
p.s. Showing the influence of solo MSPs can only be good news for I4I also…
John C
What you are actually asking for is a constitution – that should of been ready by now.
@Rauraidh 5.04pm
It would be more mental to think that the SNP could be persuaded to give Alba what it could and should demand as a price for keeping them in power, and madder still to think they would honour any commitment given.
There’s vanishingly little chance the SNP are going to play ball: indeed it’s more likley that some of their nutter fringe MSP’s would defect in the unlikely event Humza gave in to Ash Regan’s demands.
The quicker the SNP is staked thru’ it’s rotten heart the quicker we can move forward. Bring it on I say!
Bringing down the government is the best result for the SNP (assuming it is ready to clear out the dead wood and rebuild). I am not certain that it is the best result for Alba, nor for the independence movement.
Replacing TRA cult SNP with the same from Labour (that we can have no influence over; neither via Ash nor via the ballot box) doesn’t seem an urgent priority to me.
Let’s see what we can get out of the current situation.
Tough times for Ash, I hope she is getting support from her colleagues and party!
Whether Ash votes to bring down the SNP is surely down to what concessions she is able to garner prior to the vote.
She cannot vote for the status quo.
Whatever happens there’s much to celebrate tonight in the departure of the Greens from SG.
Whatever happens there’s much to celebrate with the departure of the Greens from SG
Alba are never in a million years going to bring down an SNP government which would in all likelihood usher in a unionist rainbow coalition of doom.
This is an opportunity to Alba to demonstrate their credentials as a professional operation. Judging by the cadence of Salmond’s interview, I think they recognise that opportunity. They will seek the best possible optics out of this rare opportunity. If we’re lucky, that could mean a spell of de-wokeification of the Scottish Government. The real question that will be answered out of all this is whether Alex Salmond still has that magic touch.
Let’s just go for an election and if the Scottish electorate haven’t learned any lessons over the past few years then we’ll deserve to be ruled by the warmongers in Westminster.
It’s fairly obvious what will happen. A token lowly Green will be ordered to announce publicly they will abstain on a VoNC. That keeps the puce perverts on the gravy train for another 2 years and stymies any potential concessions to Alba.
Scotland limps along for 2 years with the only legislation passed here being on reserved issues coming from WM. Thereby showing the SNP as inept, incompetent and impotent as a political party. The election in 2026 is then in the bag for the Unionists.
Ash Regan can vote No Confidence in Yousaf but then support whoever the SNP come up with as a replacement. I wonder if Kate Forbes is currently clearing her diary?
If Ash supports the SNP government, they will still send her abuse, abuse, abuse the next day. We know it.
This is actually a chance for Alba to put itself on the map. Most Scots (sadly) just do not know it exists. The majority of voters only know: Tory, Labour, SNP; with the Lib Dems a distant fourth.
I am considering voting for Alba in the upcoming elections. Have not decided, beyond I will not be voting SNP. If Ash does not vote against the ghastly FM, it will never get my vote.
Still millions of idiot Sturgeon fans/voters who think her honest and indy supporting. Salmond court case next month, more Branchform arrests likely. Could it be Regan thinks an election would be more advantageous a little later?