The Unforgiven
We’ve already posted a shorter and snappier soundbite from this video on our Twitter, but it’s really worth watching the full version here:
Because the body language is remarkable. For three and a half minutes, Neil Gray is completely unable to look his former colleague – an SNP MSP until a few months ago, a fellow government minister until 2022 – in the eye.
He sits stiff as a board, his teeth gritted, his face like thunder, staring directly ahead at the back wall of the studio as Ash Regan patiently and calmly outlines the extremely modest requirements Alba had set out in return for supporting Humza Yousaf and the SNP government in Parliamentary votes of confidence.
And when host Stephen Jardine asks him what exactly was so unreasonable about them, he can’t help himself, and blurts out that it was really all about preventing Alex Salmond from regaining any sort of influence on Scottish politics and insisting that his “rehabilitation” could not be permitted, even if the result of blocking it was the loss of an SNP First Minister and the potential bringing down of an SNP government.
And at this point a fair-minded person might ask: rehabilitation from what, precisely?
As far as anyone can tell, Alex Salmond’s “original sin” in the eyes of the SNP was to announce his intention to return to politics to help the fight for independence.
That action is what triggered Nicola Sturgeon’s impostor-syndrome paranoia, and set in motion the events which led to Salmond being put on trial for a series of fictitious sexual assaults. The party’s machinations to that end are undisputed public record.
And it’s of course also a matter of public record that when the false accusations that were assembled by Nicola Sturgeon’s allies went to court, having been reported to the police against the wishes of the supposed “victims”, Salmond was found innocent of every single one.
So the question remains: for what does Salmond need “rehabilitation”?
The truth is that the SNP’s pathological, obsessive hatred for the leader who took them from nowhere to government, the only leader to ever secure a majority in the Scottish Parliament and the only man to ever deliver a referendum on independence, has nothing to do with any imaginary misconduct on his part and everything to do with the fact that the current SNP has been captured by people whose priorities are anything BUT independence.
Salmond’s Alba party – mistakenly in this site’s view – has never been anything but constructive and supportive towards the SNP. Despite years of rebuffs, it continues to offer an olive branch in the form of its “Scotland United” plan, which would concede the vast majority of seats to the SNP.
But because the SNP is no longer interested in independence and is focused instead on an authoritarian agenda of what it calls “social justice” centred primarily around transgender issues, it responds to all of Alba’s pleas for an independence alliance with hostility, abuse and contempt, embodied in person by Neil Gray in the above video.
That hostility is laid bare in today’s Sunday Mail.
The piece confirms the attitude that Wings told its readers more than a week ago would scupper any prospect of an SNP-Alba deal to save Humza Yousaf.
Which is exactly what Wings said nine days ago:
And so the party forced Yousaf to resign, leaving the way clear for another continuity candidate pliant to the wishes of the Scottish Greens, because the Greens’ agenda is much more in line with that of the modern SNP than Alba’s priorities of independence, competence and women’s rights.
(With the bonus that having left Alba with no choice but to vote no confidence in the government, the SNP scarecrow wing can then feign outrage and shriek “LOOK! THEY VOTED AGAINST AN INDY GOVERNMENT, THEY’RE UNIONISTS AND HATERS AND WRECKERS AND MI5 PLANTS!”)
But the unfortunate Gray, having drawn the short straw and been sent out to humiliate himself on Debate Night, had no answer to Stephen Jardine’s wholly fair question about which of Alba’s demands conflicted with the SNP’s “values and principles”.
You can see the entirety of his reply from 9m here, but we’ve cropped out absolutely nothing of any content or consequence in our clip, just more vacuous, petulant waffling about how Alba are untrustworthy Unionists etc and he’d rather beg for support from the Greens, who by their own admission don’t give a toss about independence.
And the Greens made it abundantly plain that as far as they were concerned they still had the SNP over a barrel, Bute House Agreement or not.
So the SNP’s change of leader has in reality changed nothing. John Swinney, who will succeed Yousaf whether or not the party faces the embarrassing chore of a leadership contest, is already trotting out the exact same platitudes as he was the first time he became leader, almost 24 years ago.
The only remotely positive outcome we can see from the last week’s events is that Alba might finally, belatedly realise that their strategy of co-operation with the SNP will never, ever work.
The SNP are not only Alba’s enemy in a direct political sense, they are also the enemy of the independence movement as a whole. They are a bloated, rotten corpse blocking its path. Corpses cannot be revived and they cannot be worked with, they can only be destroyed and replaced, as has happened many times in history when parties are no longer fit for their own supposed purpose.
(Such as the Whigs in the 19th century and the Irish Parliamentary Party in the 20th.)
Replacing a dominant political party isn’t easy, although it can happen incredibly quickly given the right circumstances. But we have little faith that that will happen here – Salmond’s sentimental attachment to the SNP and continuing personal friendship with some of the old guard still in it seems too strong – and meanwhile the corpse continues to decay, with a new poll today showing the SNP’s support below 30%, a barrier not breached since the last time John Swinney was leader.
If anyone still thought the SNP had the slightest interest in working with anyone else to bring about Scottish independence, Neil Gray’s performance on Thursday left no room for doubt that that’s a naive fantasy. The dream is disappearing over the horizon, and those who let it do so will be remembered bitterly.
Is Neil Grey a ten year old girl?
Absolutely ragin. Love it.
I watched this the other night and I loved the way Ash Regan tore into Lorna Slater.
Mark Beggan , he certainly seems to identify as such – what a cretin! Are there no adults in the SNP/Green parties?
This is Exactly what the british state infil("Tractor" - Ed)s wanted to happent to the SNP!
The SNP top brass, with the exception of salmond, were comprimised and some planted in the SNP to influence and destroy when Independence was close!
Sturgeon, i believe, made a pact with them very early on in her political career. she was groomed for the leadership roles and her rise facilitated by those same infiltratiors to ensure she, and she alone would have control of the party!
Control her, and you control the independence movement!
In return, she could be given generous treatment and the illusion of prestige.
If she failed to comply, dark secrets would be exposed and she would be destroyed, politically, possibly jailed for a very long time! She is part of the Scottish ‘establishment after all!
Of course Alex Salmond was too big a threat, and they had to ensure the discredited him at every level! We know how they tried!
Unfortunately for them, Alex couldnt be bought and the truth always is revealed!
Every thing is going according to plan for the british state, its time the truth was revealed!
Mark Beggan , he certainly seems to identify as such – what a cretin! Are there no adults in the SNP/Green parties?
I have only seen a snippet and would dearly like to know if someone pointed out that Alex Salmond was found innocent .
Does Neil Gray think all those found innocent are really guilty as charged? And if the boot was on his foot would he be a happy bunny??
Independence has been lost for a generation at least. I’ve said this here before & each day makes it clearer that there’s no ideas, plans or intent from any of the people who could push it along. Even the movement now is a busted flush with people dreaming of unicorns that ‘just one more push’ will bring it while Tweeting #independeceiscoming endless online.
Seeing the AUOB march going up Woodlands Road yesterday just depressed me. At one point these marches were a wonderful display of civic Scotland in action & they might not have converted anyone to the cause, but they certainly helped cement the movement in unity. Yesterday was a sad display led by as many Palestinian flags as Scottish ones so AUOB just becomes another cause hijacked and the message isn’t just diluted, but it helps alienate people, including independence supporters. This is, sadly, where we are.
I have no idea why the likes of Neil Grey reject Regan’s pretty mild requests as a cover for Salmond. I suspect he does really fear Salmond coming back to the SNP which means he’d probably be out a job, but I think he’s been so conditioned to see him as a bogeyman that he’d rather just toe the party line than actually do anything like work with other parties to make things better in Scotland.
As for Lorna Slater she’s clearly enjoying the power she and the Greens are wielding & I suspect the next Holyrood elections will see her get back in on the list though I also think the large majority of the public are done giving The Greens a chance as like the SNP who are no longer a party for independence, The Greens are no longer a party for the environment.
Sorry about the double post Stu
Is there no chance of a challenge to Swinney?
It would have no chance of winning but could bring forward bankruptcy and a chance for proper access to the books.
@Dorothy Devine
Neil Grey is not addressing the audience or the camera. He is talking to his masters. Or should I say she. This oddity is:
‘A Cretin!’
A grovelling dipstick.
I watched this the other night and I loved the way Ash Regan tore into Lorna Slater.
What always amazes me about Slater (as well as Harvie, Greer, etc) is that whenever they’re put under any scrutiny in an interview they fall apart. They’ve never developed beyond student politics & fold under pressure.
I would like to make clear that in my previous comment;
“Is Neil Grey a ten year old girl?”
no disrespect was intended towards young girls.
I really wish there is a public forum that we can expressly feel our feelings and thoughts about the fuckin immaturity shown by politicians especially the ones from the SNP.
They seem to be blissfully aware (Who am I kidding) that the vast majority of The ALBA Party members are those that left the SNP.
Thank fuck my Grandfather is dead and is spared the betrayal that is the SNP, he was one of the early members of the SNP when they were seen as the lunatic fringe of UK politics in those early days.
FUCK the NuSNP for the betrayal of those life long members whom truly believed in the SNP and stuck by them till the 19th September 2014 when Alex, a true champion for Scottish independence by securing us the opportunity to vote.
I no longer hold any ill will to that 55%, they didn’t kill the dream of independence the fuckin SNP with Nicola Sturgeon and her acolytes did and THEY cunts will never get to see and head the true anger, from us that have been so badly fooled by the false hope.
I hope that the certain contributor sees this and reads it and starts to wake up from the bullshit she is regularly spoon-fed and stop telling us that the SNP are far from the fuckin vehicle that will lead Scotland away from Westminster clutches.
“So it’s about one man!” What an ending.
Why are so many in the SNP are desperate to ensure Salmond does not get any power.
Not just the leadership but politicians and members.
Is it because they know Salmond well enough to know he would be out for revenge?
His behaviour was not criminal but many think he was inappropriate with staff. And of course he admitted the incident with one women, the civil servant and also he had a sexual encounter with Ms H which was actually part of the defence testimony in court.
The other question is how on earth did they get a dozen women willing to testify against him? I have always wondered that.
But the main question is given that the SNP are not going to change their attitude towards Salmond. Should he step aside and let someone else take over Alba?
I watched that debacle with horror last Wednesday night. Neil Gray, the grey man, could not have spelled it out any more clearly than he did. Salmond, probably the only politician capable to taking us to independence, even if just stays in the background, is to be bounded at each and every opportunity. This is scandalous and disgraceful behaviour. I left the SNP over the foot-dragging on independence and over female rights, but I would have swallowed my rage and pride had Humza been allowed – and I choose those words carefully – to make a deal with ALBA’s Ash Regan, probably the only politician who comes anywhere near Mr Salmond’s political acumen. That would have signalled to the rest of the indy movement that unity was foremost and would have allowed all those thousands who have left the SNP to follow them again, but only in unity circumstances.
That was deliberately spurned and spat out by the SNP grey men and the rainbow wing of Toddlers Inc. God, I loathe them with such a passion. It is a toss-up on which I hate most: their absolute lack of political nous and total lack of grey cells or their utter stupidity and lack of self-awareness in every social sphere. Let’s just get them out ASAP. No more holding out the hand of peace and unity. F them. Cut them down in the GE and wipe them out in the SE. Take no prisoners. No quarter given or asked for after this. Mr Salmond, if you continue on this path of reconciliation, of another indyref, you, too, will lose people. Yes, we need the country behind us, and I think we have it behind us. You are a man who takes risks – calculated ones, admittedly – so do that now for Scotland. Ash Regan, like you, is head and shoulders above the common herd in politics.
@JohnC 2.43pm
Student politics is exactly what the Greens are all about, with a smattering of tweenie “You can’t play with them if you want to be in our gang”. And the SNP are going the same way, obviously.
And Neil Gray is supposedly the heir apparent SNP leader? My God, how far the SNP have fallen in 10 years. They can’t even conjure a leader with ordinary good manners.
Now absolutely clear that SNP have no direction other than self grahifactiknmof almost senior figures in the gravy train.
Alba has to call them out for what they truly a self serving devolution party who will only tolerate the woke Greens.
Time for real change in shape of Alba Isp and Independents for Independence.
@Mark Beggan, in Scotland now if Neil Grey chose to self identify as a ten year old girl who are we to deny his lived experience?
Swinney was asked today on Sky News about any other candidates coming through for leader and about a second referendum.
Kept stummn about any other candidate coming forward ( “Graeme McCormick?) responding simply to say that his appointment would allow the SNP to build to where they need to be. No other needed.
In relation to a second referendum he acknowledged that support for independence was greater than it was at the time of the referendum but effectively poored cold water on the idea of a referendum.
Swinney is being put in to kill any independence campaign, aside of which, do the SNP, having spent the earlier crowd funded £650k,now got any money.
More of tbe same. The SNP is in its death throes.
John C: no, it is not gone for a generation or ten years, or whatever. As the SNP’s star wanes so does the independence movement’s wax. Whatever happens now will not be that which the SNP and Unionists think it will be. We are now entering unknown territory, just as our cousins in Ireland did. It will be up to us to use our wits to avoid a tumble into chaos and physical confrontation, and the likes of SALVO/Liberation and others are working hard behind the scenes to ensure that we do not have to go down this path. They have the evidence that we need to prove that the Union is a one-sided farce that is illegal in international law. Several independent candidates are standing in the GE. Give them your support and we might get a big enough pro independence contingent into Westminster to take us out of the Union within weeks, through the international community.
2023
“THE SNP leadership contest cost the party £160,000 which it had not budgeted for, according to leaked documents.”
————————————————-
They can’t afford to have another contest – hence Swinney.
Last comment had errors.
Should read now absolutely clear SNP have no direction other than self gratification of alm senior figures in the gravy train.
@ Anton Decadent
There but for the grace of God go I.
People were warned prior to the 2021 election that the Greens would be the kingmakers in the ensuing government. See https://www.politico.eu/article/scottish-greens-kingmaker-2021-election/
And the easily predictable happened. The Greens, who don’t care a jot about independence, have a veto power over the SNP, who (at least) pretend to care. The SNP goes along with this because the SNP MSPs care more about their jobs and their perks, than anything else. Which, again, was and is easily predictable.
Who’s to blame for this? The SNP, for one. And Alex Salmond, who promoted Sturgeon and Yousaf into positions of power.
But more basically, the ones to primarily blame are the Scots who voted SNP in 2021 and in prior elections. It wasn’t the tooth fairy, MI5, or the Loch Ness monster, who put Yousaf in power–it was the people you elected.
EDIT: I hope that the certain contributor sees this and reads it and starts to wake up from the bullshit she is regularly spoon-fed and stop telling us that the SNP are the vehicle for independence, they are so far from the fuckin vehicle that will lead Scotland away from Westminster clutches.
I accidentally posted before completing my post at 3.06pm
It is now so obvious the route supporters of Scotland, i.e. Scottish nationalists need to take. Looking the other way, as so many do, will not soften the reality that devolutionist gradualism functionally serves two masters and one of them cannot believe his good luck.
The outstanding European leader of the second half of the 20th century was probably General Charles de Gaulle of France.
He led the free French to their part in the Allies victory in WWII, whereupon he restored democracy to his country. But, lesser politicians got involved and he retired to write his war memoirs, before coming out of retirement to sort-out French politics, at a time when, in a Good Show script, Peter Sellers (as Hercules Gryptpype-Thynne) was: “negotiating with one of the French governments”.
Alex Salmond is our de Gaulle. He should, given the downright hatred of him at the top of the SNP, perhaps leave the day-to-day business of Alba to the likes of Ash Regan, Neale Hanvey and Kenny MacAskill, instead focussing his energies on winning his court cases which will finally silence the character assassination and finish-off the Tractors inside the SNP.
It might, as his age, be too late for the second part of the de Gaulle story to play out, but, with the SNP discredited and probably bankrupt, we could then get on with the business of ending this Union and restoring Freedom.
Mind you, for this to work, Alex would still have to find a way of squaring the circle of the fact, we political parties are a necessary part of democracy, but, they can be infiltrated and stymied, and nobody does it better than the English, against the fact, English political parties will never allow a Scottish one a referendum and freedom has to be achieved by extra-parliamentary means, short of armed conflict, of course.
Just what ‘democratic mandate’ do the Scottish Greens have? From where I am sitting they have none, so how does this entitle them to force crank driven extremist policies (hate monster anyone), policies with no support whatsoever in the population at large, upon the nation?
So, in the interest of pursuing independence, the holyrood election campaign starts now, and the plan should be to challenge the seats of the most resistant snp msps with the strongest indy candidate(alba/independent) available. We could start a crowdfunder to support these candidates, with the provision that indy was the main priority.
Weeding out the weak could produce the supermajority previously offered, with a view to provide good governance whilst pursuing indy. Only problem is that if we apply that to the UK GE, it could be close to 100% snp seats challenged
Hopefully people will read the room and ditch SNP once and for all. Alex heart is in the right place
A “ vassal state” is a country subject to the control of another country but not actually occupied by that country. Instead the vassal state pays tribute to the controlling entity and obeys its orders. A “ colony”, of course, is occupied and fully controlled by the colonizer.
Perhaps the way forward is not to gather everyone under one umbrella (this is dangerous to a independent Scotland voice) of the Alba / Snp coalition which is a fine target for the establishment to take down
but instead to vote in as many individual independests for Scottish independence as possible,
These could then make a coalition with Alba. In government ousting the SNP and greens.
Craig @ 15.06.
I don’t doubt that this public forum (WOS) is closely read by both MSM (how often have we seen Stuart’s scoops and facts repeated by journalists) and politicians, Craig.
It’s not so much, I believe, that the present SNP/Green administration and the cabal behind them don’t know in how low esteem they are held by the general public, far less independence supporters … it’s just that they don’t care.
Truly they hold us in contempt and we therefore return the compliment !
As for the remaining SNP supporters and Sturgeonistas, sooner or later they’ll find the truth of the saying, “The hypocrite despises those whom (s)he deceives”.
Stu,
If only you lived in Scotland, we would vote you in, you have the brains and wit to outshine all Scottish politicians. You are direct, forthright, know where the goal posts are, don’t accept shite don’t mess about nor miss a point.
Neil Gray is the health secretary. There’s not an ounce of compassion in his face. He’s like a petulant child by ignoring Ash Regan.
You can tell he goes home and beats his wife. He’s got that vibe about him. A misogynist to his core. If he’s not an obnoxious gay man. So out of touch with Scotland and her needs.
Fuck him.
As for Lorna Slater – She’s retarted. End of story.
There will be no rehabilitation for the SNP. I will never vote for that corrupt party again.
Leave Scotland’s kids alone Neil Gray and Lorna Slater – the danger to children on that panel!
Ash Regan is brilliant.
No Neil Gray will never demonstrate progress on Scottish Independence. He hates Scottish Independence. His face is like fiz!
You can tell Neil Gray sits at home and calls Ash Regan a terf – to his secret male partner – you can tell these things just by looking at the baldy bastard. He’s got that angry male look about him.
This guy should never be a politician or a health secretary. He is so blatantly incapable of compassion of listening and compromising and accepting other belief systems.
I fear for Scotland’s children with Neil Gray – No independence for Scotland with the puberty blocker Neil Gray.
Keep taking the ugly tablets Neil Gray – they are working!
They are working all right!
SNP hands off the NHS! Hands off Scotland’s kids. Get the SNP OUT NOW!
INDEPENDENCE FOR SCOTLAND. SNP Corrupt to the core – the naysayers of Scottish Independence SNP.
Neil Gray – Got the violent male look about him. Probably dresses up in leather and fetish gear with patrick harvie.
There’s no rehabilitating the SNP is there?
Absolutely NOT. I’ll never vote for you sex pests. You creeps again.
I hope Neil Gray reads this. No rehabilitation for your party of chalatans thieves and crooks. You’re the worst kind of people.
I wouldn’t trust you. I will never be fooled again!
And that includes Kate Forbes!
Any more on the rumours surrounding Nicola’s arrest? Did the Crown office stop the police from charging her?
Sarwar saying in interview today that Graeme McCormack has the numbers (100+names/20branches) and there may be a contest.
Also being claimed elsewhere on YouTube. Interesting.
If I were to say that I hate the SNP in all its manifestations would that be a hate crime?
Elizabeth @ 16.42.
Latest media reports I’ve seen report that Police Scotland is investigating potential reset of stolen, or unlawfully obtained, property; although no names have been disclosed.
Rehabilitation from what? The man was found innocent, the only crime here being committed is one of denial that Scotland has any right to be Independent from this Union.
I personally couldn’t count how many times Alex has stood down to allow Independence progress. The reality is the SNP is running out of excuses to give the public the newest one being Alex is the sole reason why after ten years we’re still in this union.
The Alba Party is on a winner with attacking the SNP on no action on Indyref2 and woman’s rights and the closure of Scotland only refinery. I really do hope when the Westminster election comes this is how the Alba and Independents will fight the SNP on these three issues forget about the Unionist parties the SNP is public enemy number 1, 2 and three.
I am extremely pleased that Graeme McCormick is entering the race and I hope he wins and if he does I honestly believe we will see change because at the moment the bar is set so low you couldn’t lift it of the ground.
How about we avoid the single point of failure that a uni-party for independence creates and, if not a thousand flowers bloom, then at least let’s have a selection of parties that can represent the aspirations of different segments of the population.
Who knows, if a party that represents the interests of farmers arose, then the 50% of the population who are not so keen on the SNP’s vision of a progressive, green gulag might see that there are people who put the needs of the country first. All of it.
When Neil Grey grows up he wants to be someone important.
I don’t understand why WoS thinks wee Eck is a nice guy maybe its because its run by a man and not a female civil servant from Bute House. This odious man is was wasting millions of our money converting Governors House into a private castle for himself rather than keep paying the less than a quid rent for Bute House thankfully his referendum failure saved us from his ego.
I’ve never met Ash Regan but she appears to be a woman. That’s probably why the SNP are so shit scared of her.
What can you say to an idiot out of step with the Scottish population, nothing really,
Paul Oliver
Ignored says:
5 May, 2024 at 5:49 pm
I don’t understand why WoS thinks wee Eck is a nice guy…
In fairness, I’m guessing there’s a load of things that you don’t understand.
And when the SNP get’s an absolute doing at the next election, you won’t understand that either.
Paul Oliver.
You type shit.
From the English propaganda machine the BBC, (Circa 2011).
“The first minister could move to a new official residence because of the rising cost of refurbishment work on his current property.
Alex Salmond lives at Bute House in Edinburgh’s Charlotte Square but civil servants are looking at “a number of options” for an alternative.
Mr Salmond has been advised that moving into a building owned by the Scottish government could keep costs down.”
The cost of refurbishing Bute House, for which a commercial rent is paid to the National Trust for Scotland, could reach £3.5m.
It is understood the Georgian townhouse needs to be refurbished to upgrade disabled access and security.
“However, no final proposals have been developed by officials, and therefore no decision has been taken.”
He added: “The first minister is extremely fond of Bute House as a place to showcase Scotland. However, in the current financial climate, we have to pay careful attention to any proposal which substantiates a more cost effective option.”
Asked about the prospect of moving, Mr Salmond added: “I’d have to see the figures, I’d have to see the bottom line, but I’m certain that whatever happens no doubt the civil servants will find somewhere for me to rest my head.”
Tartan Tories right enough.
I’m starting to think we do Tory north of the border better than the real Tories do.
The SNP still hell-bent on sticking the trumped up charges on AS even after his complete vindication through the courts. I can’t recall a similar situation half so scandalous from Westminster.
What’s next for the SNP I wonder? Novochik? Dodgy hotel windows?
In my personal opinion, this “hatred” against Mr Salmond roots on the visits of Theresa May to Scotland in 2016 and then 2017:
“Theresa May visits Scotland to press case for ‘special union’” (the Guardian, 15 July 2016).
“Theresa May and Nicola Sturgeon meet ahead of Article 50” (BBV News, 27 March 2017).
I am of the opinion that the first visit of TMay to Scotland was to open negotiations and her second visit in 2017 was to cut a deal.
On 13 March 2017, Sturgeon announced intention to seek a S30 and the SNP launched the crowdfunder for Indyref. In my opinion this was just political posturing from Sturgeon to dupe the voters and perhaps to prompt Theresa May. In my opinion, the prospect of a deal was well underway at that point and, by seeking a S30, what Sturgeon was doing was essentially handing a veto to Theresa May over indyref. I am also of the opinion this was agreed.
Soon after May’s second visit, she called a general election (18 April 2017). It is my personal opinion that, during that second meeting, calling an early GE was discussed and also that one of the main objectives of this was to remove Mr Salmond from Westminster and to thin down the SNP representation in WEstminster, of which, in my own personal opinion, Sturgeon was complicit.
This is based on the fact that STurgeon continued to deny that a vote for the SNP was a vote for independence, despite the SNP having record membership figures, a re-energised yes movement, being in a position to win again and both FFA and the first request for S30 had been denied.
More things hint towards this:
May 2017 – “Leader Patrick Harvie hints that supporters should postpone push for independence and focus on stopping Tory landslide – The Scottish Green leader has urged supporters to consider a tactical vote for Labour or the Liberal Democrats if their candidates have a better chance of stopping the Tories” The Guardian, 19 May 2017
Harvie was at all practical effects thinning down the pro-independence vote.
In June 2017 the SNP drops the fundraiser for the referendum ahead of schedule and before reaching the target, suggesting they never had an intention to hold a referendum.
The tone of Sturgeon’s speeches changed in strength against brexit and pro-independence strength after that second visit.
And then we have this:
May 2017 – “Ruth Davidson won’t like to admit borrowing from the SNP playbook, but there has been something almost Salmond-esque in her boasting that her party will take seats from the nationalists on June 8. Ms Davidson had already predicted a Portillo moment in Moray, the home of SNP deputy leader Angus Robertson, but now seems to think that Gordon is within her grasp”
The Scotsman, 9 May 2017.
It was obvious Mr Salmond had already been targeted for eviction. This is bizarre. He was not the leader of the party, Sturgeon was. It does not make sense to target Mr Salmond in 2017 but not Sturgeon in 2016 or 2021 for tactical voting unless Sturgeon was already on their side. Also, if Mr Salmond was in Westminster, he had direct access to that absolute majority of SNP MPs.
Needless to say that the quality of the speeches in Westminster and the quality of the opposition decreased enormously when Mr Salmond left.
That Mr Salmond’s seat and not Sturgeon’s was targeted for tactical voting to me hints towards his eviction from Westminster being very much a calculated and planned for move and one where both Sturgeon and the BE colluded.
The fact that the SNP, civil servants, the press, the national broadcaster and the crown office were involved on this directly or indirectly, suggests active intervention from the BE.
In July 2017 Mr Salmond “reveals he will stand again in future election” (The National, 13 july 2017)
I think this was the turning point that set Mr Salmond’s faith in motion. In my opinion this was the point when the emergency smearing plan against him was deployed. But this “new plan” represented a departure in the level of risk and its assessment and mitigation. The targeting of Mr Salmond’s seat with tactical voting was clean. Left no trace. This however contrasts with the incredibly dirty, unprofessional and amateurish way the complaints procedure plan was deployed, leaving elephant-size footprints and piles of waste everywhere. That points, in my opinion, to a departure from the original strategy and it being more a fire-fighting operation than a carefully planned strategy.
31 October 2017 – “Ministers order a review of the Scottish government’s “policies and processes for addressing inappropriate conduct”
To me, that all these events above are linked is obvious.
I am convinced Sturgeon offered Scotland as the sacrificial lamb to the BE at some point in 2014, so the UK elites could have their brexit in exchange of something like FFA, rebranded as FFResponsibility. This was actually part of the SNP’s 2015 manifesto. FFA should have been delivered in line with the vow. Considering the landslide victory that was expected for the SNP, Sturgeon should have been much more ambitious than that. But she never actually fought publicly against the deception that the vow was. That only FFA was in the manifesto, in my view, points to Sturgeon having already settled with some kind of deal in the pipeline. Whatever that deal, it was short of independence and therefore Mr Salmond stood in the way of it.
I am also of the opinion the GE2017 was agreed with STurgeon and had as one of the commonly agreed objectives to eject Mr Salmond from his seat.
It is obvious to me Sturgeon never pursued independence. There are records already in 2015, the day after the GE, hinting at Sturgeon and Johnson considering negotiating a deal:
“At an event hosted by the think-tank Reform Scotland, Ms Sturgeon said she had not had many dealings with Mr Johnson, who is widely expected to be the next Prime Minister.
But she recalled walking beside him the day after the 2015 general election, at the VE Day commemorations in London.
She said: “Boris and I walked along together and I think he said something to me like – I’m not directly quoting here for the journalists in the room – but it was something that was along the lines of, ‘So Nicola, full fiscal autonomy – does that kind of buy you guys off?’”
The context around the remarks is not clear, but Ms Sturgeon joked it would be the “starting point” of her relationship with Mr Johnson if he secures the top job. – Johnson asked Sturgeon showing Sturgeon and Johnson already ”
the Herald, 18 June 2019
I am of the opinion Sturgeon was dirty well before that. Her words: “A vote for the SNP is not a vote for independence nor a vote for a referendum”, rendered the SNP worthless. The presence of Mr Salmond in Westminster threatened that too.
I am also one of those “conspiracy theorists” who does not believe the official 2014 ref result. I am convinced yes won, by a narrow margin, but won. It is the only way things like 2015 landslide for the SNP, a narrow majority pro-independence vote, Sturgeon’s infamous words “a vote for the SNP is not a vote for independence nor even a vote for a referendum”, the desperate attempts by Brown and Cameron to remove from our minds the possibility of another referendum, the conspiracy against Mr Salmond, the enormous efforts the sNP continues to make today against his rehabilitation and against progression towards independence, and the de-democratisation of the SNP and ring-fencing of its membership from having any say in the direction of travel of their party, make any sense.
There is no longer a reason to keep the SNP in our parliamentary seats. They have become an obstacle to Scotland’s independence and they need to go. All of them.
“When host Stephen Jardine asks him what exactly was so unreasonable about them, he can’t help himself, and blurts out that it was really all about preventing Alex Salmond from regaining any sort of influence on Scottish politics and insisting that his “rehabilitation” could not be permitted”
At that point either Stephen Jardine or some member of the audience should have asked what “rehabilitation” Neil Gray was referring to, was it about the legal charges that Alex Salmond was found innocent of, was it about a mostly female juries aquittal of Alex Salmond on all charges, or was it that certain senior members of the snp refuse to acknowledge the juries verdict of innocence and still continue to attempt to besmirch the verdict, the jurors and the judicial system by making accusatory comments in newspapers, if so surely it is these persons who have to be rehabilitated
I have railed against Salmond’s begging, grovelling appeals for unity with these deviants and perverts, he should be publicly and vociferously EXPOSING the danger and threats to our CHILDREN and womenfolk that these reviled creatures present, he should have been echoing and supporting Stuart Campbell’s,Glinner’s,JK Rowling’s and others exposures of these decadent and vile policies, instead ALBA has issued lukewarm edicts that some items need to be discussed
Lets try this again.
Even if he does win the contest he won’t be FM just leader of the SNP, still surely that would better than the current lot.
“Graeme McCormick – a retired solicitor who has served as Convener of SNP’s Dumbarton branch – was at the All Under One Banner march in Glasgow on Saturday seeking to gather the required support to stand for leader.
It is understood McCormick believes he is very likely to receive the 100 nominations from at least 20 SNP branches before the Monday deadline.”
McCormick previously highlighted in an exclusive interview with The National that he felt the route to independence lay in international treaties – a motion for which was rejected at last year’s conference, where he also unsuccessfully ran for SNP president.
The activist still appears to believe this route is the way forward for independence.
In a letter to The National, McCormick said he wishes to stand because “I know of no potential candidate who is prepared to call an early Holyrood election”.
“Central to the campaign is that a majority vote will result in the SNP MPs being instructed to dissolve the union, establish the sovereign government of Scotland, advise the UN that the union is ended and that Scotland will adhere to the terms of the Vienna Convention on the dissolution of a former state,” he wrote.
“Under international law, this is the “how” of delivering our nation statehood.”
Gloves off and about time!
New poll says Alba on 4%. If the SNP leadership [for want of a better word] continues to piss off pro-indy voters they, the pro-indy voters, will have no option but to kick the SNP into the long grass. It’s amazing how the SNP leadership couldn’t care less about pro-indy voters or independence. Swinney and others like Gray are taking these voters for granted and fully expect them to vote SNP anyway. Have they forgotten what happened in the Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election?
Just watched the Swinney interview.
Extremely disappointing.
Just more bullshit dressed as a plan
May the (once) good ship SNP founder upon the skerries with the loss of all hands.
Absolute shower of feckless, oxygen-thieving charlatans.
Independence for Scotland!
SNP Out!
The refusal to accept the ALBA deal and the malice displayed by Neil Gray on behalf of the SNP shows that there is no way back for the SNP. They have no political nous whatsoever. I am dreading the next couple of years because, if they scrape enough seats in the GE, they will crack a rib to bring in both the Misogyny Bill and the Conversion Therapy Bill which will attempt to push back female rights even further and also gay rights in the name of ‘trans’. They want to make these two their legacy. If Labour get in, the same nonsense will come to pass because they are just as owned by the Stonewall lobby. What, with the Freeports, the siphoning off of every scrap of energy down into England, hell awaits us.
Craig: which female contributor are you speaking about there?
Mia @ 6.22, you haven’t explained why they were so determined to keep Salmond out.
I gave an explanation of this on the previous thread. I believe at the root of everything is political blackmail of some sort. I point out that May came up through the Home Office which has direct control over MI5.
Britain was in a very precarious position after the Brexit vote. It’s very easy to imagine that the British Government would have gone to any lengths to keep a lid on Scottish nationalism with so much hanging in the balance.
Scotland pushing for independence at that time could have tipped the balance and turned the disaster of Brexit into utter calamity, with the UK seat on the security council, confidence in the economy, Sterling, and everything that matters on the line.
You really couldn’t exaggerate what a desperate position the UK was in back then.
As for Sturgeon, I think there’s a distinct and discernible change in her character, approach, and priorities after this period. I believe she was genuinely interested in independence up to this point and genuinely saw Brexit as a potential game-changer. It was.
I think it would be very easy to make a case for saying she turned from being a politician that was sincerely committed to forwarding the cause of independence to one that really did everything possible to destroy that cause.
And for what it’s worth, I think the mechanism that was triggered in 2017 that resulted in the dramatic change in approach is still in play today; I think it explains a lot, In particular the brazen determination to keep Alba and others at bay, and making sure the leadership of the SNP doesn’t fall into the hands of anyone that will seriously pursue independence.
Lorna Slater: aka Big Bird. A little research reveals the following: According to Wikipedia she was an engineering student @ University of British Columbia fron 1993 to 2000. Inclusive that is 8 years. What is the story? Her company directorship states her nationality as Canadian. What is she doing here and why support constitutional change in basically a foreign country? The Wikipedia entry also states that a month before graduating she bought a one way ticket to Scotland. Did she graduate or is he just another thick dropout like Harvie and Greer who are only qualified to flip burgers. The media up here are utterly useless; a lot of questions go unanswered. I would urge the good Rev to do a little research because none of the useless journalists up here can be bothered. Anecdotally Slater from colleagues that have met her say she is thick as mince. Why do I careless ? I am sick of Scotland being hijacked by crooks,liars and charlatans and they need to be investigated forensically.
Good luck to Graeme McCormick. I hope he’s friends with Alex Salmond.
Nasty Nicola Sturgeon won’t like that.
Good luck to the man in the grey kilt. I hope he beats the men in the green skirts.
The Scottish nonse party that Neil Gray enjoys nonsing the children of Scotland with in his nonsey horrible child hating and woman hating cesspit of corruption.
Get Swinney out now!
Just watching the video of Neil Gray again. It angers me more…
I’ve checked out his wikipedia page. It says he has a wife and 3 children.
And he’s been a Westminster MP. A lot of private members clubs in London.
A weak man like Neil Gray will have tucked his children into bed, kissed his wife goodbye, and packed a box of extra small condoms into his attache case for his trip to London! With his male staffer.
I suspect his wife doesn’t know!
There is no behaviour in Scotland more disgraceful, than that of an SNP politician. Under investigation for massive scale fraud, charges of embezzlement. Sexual offenses a culture of cover up – Just ask Patrick Grady and Derek Mackay! Which Blackford of course – who’s traded his wife in for an older model.. Haha.
Neil Gray – if his wife doesn’t know. She will now. His behaviour. If only she knew what he got upto in London while he was a way! If only she knew about his behaviour of him and his sleezy party.
If only! He’ll not last at all. He’ll not last at all!
Neil Gray rising through the ranks of the SNP having done nothing to merit his position . He wont survive the next election .
You get back what you give out Neil Gray. I’ll tell you that for a fact.
Your friends in London are all going to lose their jobs. Allison Thewliss and the rest – decapitate terfs – the women of Scotland don’t forgive. And they don’t forget.
We know what you’re like. We know what you and your crooked ilk are like!
SNP OUT NOW!
Republicofscotland @ 6:29 pm
“Central to the campaign is that a majority vote will result in the SNP MPs being instructed to dissolve the union, establish the sovereign government of Scotland, advise the UN that the union is ended and that Scotland will adhere to the terms of the Vienna Convention on the dissolution of a former state,”
This was and remains the right and proper way to end the UK Union treaty-based alliance, in much the same way it began (aside from the bribes). It is only recently since nationalist majorities have been elected that it seems to be regarded as ‘radical’ by the SNP and British establishment elites.
In truth all innovative lawful solutions to end ‘the scourge of colonialism’ should be sought and supported by those who seek Scottish independence. Lets hope there are enough bona fide nationalists left among the SNP membership to support Graeme McCormick’s bid.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/08/08/determinants-of-independence-constitution/comment-page-1/
the dogs bark,the caravan moves on.
not my circus, not my monkeys.
Scotland, wake up! You need new blood, the old order is dead.
It is clear that the SNP is now nothing more than a Party of malicious malignant Unionists. I thinki one SNP MP left at the next Brit General Election will be one MP too many for the cause of Scots Indy.
If any of you are still SNP members vote for Graeme McCormack as he is really for independence. It could be there is no coronation for John Swinney after all.
@Hatuey says: 5 May, 2024 at 7:23 pm
“genuinely saw Brexit as a potential game-changer. It was.”
Oh get a grip, or they’ll be incising that on your grave stone.
Greater London voted Remain too. Maybe May was saying to Sturgeon, “you dig in your heels and I’ll ally London with you to get this madness stopped”.
That makes as much sense as any of your post.
“the mechanism that was triggered in 2017 that resulted in the dramatic change in approach is still in play today”
Oh you little tease! Come on, spill the beans. You’re among friends here – we won’t tell a soul, honest.
It’s a bit rich Gray talking about ‘rehabilitation’ . When his party are being investigated for financial irregularities. And there are several high ranking MPs and MSps who’s sexual pecadilos would turn your grannies hair blue.
Neil Gray’s body language says it all. He couldn’t lean far enough away from Ash Regan. Now that she thinks she’s in the clear, Sturgeon is making her presence known again. With the party in such a mess, mostly her doing, I wouldn’t be surprised if she stepped forward “reluctantly” to make herself available as leader. To save the party of course. Nothing to do with her giant ego at all.
Can anyone on here tell me the Alba party policy on Freeports in Scotland?
Fck em.
Salmond needs to get the gloves off.
The SNP died when he stepped down. Taken over by imbeciles who’d struggle to count to ten & backstabbing greedy cunts who’d sell their own granny for a place at the trough. They’ve been a complete failure in government. They had ONE job & they couldn’t even manage that despite a sea of support.
The SNP he left is not the same party & he needs to come to terms with that & STOP trying to save them seats or embarrassment. The electorate, the sane ones at least, wouldn’t vote SNP under ANY circumstances now. Independence would only be a stick to win seats & then they’d drag their heels again & fck off looking at rainbows.
Salmond needs to stop trying now. The SNP is dead. Only voters they have are authoritarian fckwits that no sane person wants associated with. This was made abundantly clear when Ash didn’t win the leadership contest despite the only one offering indy & a plebiscite. So even the membership has been captured. He needs to concentrate on his own party & liberation. I’m sure he will. He’s a gambling man who isn’t a fearty. Get election ready & bury them all Alex & look out & eject the spoilers early doors.
It’s the lowest of the low to continually imply Alex is guilty of something despite being cleared in a court of law. It’s straight out the Unionists playbook so we all know where that originates from. It’s the tactics they use. I’m surprised they didn’t add eating beheaded babies to the list.
I cancelled my membership over those alpabetties. What a pile of mince that was. A travesty to REAL victims of assault & the cover up that followed. I was sucked back in momentarily with Ash for leadership but that ended too. They can’t be saved. They’re too far down. Let them fck off & be an LGBTQWERTYS2+++++ party & gie the rest of us peace.
There isn’t anyone I’d say was worth even saving. They chose their side a long time ago despite repeated acts of self harm. Good, thats made a start on sorting the wheat from the chaff. Alex will build again but has to be open to ALL routes. In other (Int news) colonisation is over. It’s our chance to join that same queue & take back control of our own resources as others are now doing by asking them to leave now. They’ve outstayed their welcome. All they bring is poverty.
If Salmond is finished politically,because the MSM have painted him as a monster and wont let him come back. Then he might as well just exact revenge on all the liars in the SNP. I am not sure he has anything to lose now.
Quite a clip.
It couldn’t be clearer that the power in the SNP prefers to continue with a toxic partnership (agreement in place or not). No principle or competency will not be abandoned for this to continue until the next election.
Their approach is based entirely on self preservation, and nothing to do with the people they are there to lead. Their hatred of Salmond has gone nowhere.
This site has shown the levels of persecution they are prepared to go to, to keep him away. That he was cleared of all charges never happened in their bubble. Like Humza declaring that non crime hate incidents should be kept as indicators of hate, Salmond’s innocence can’t be the case because they made sure he was prosecuted.
They would dump their own leader to keep Salmond away from them. A core of people who loathe Salmond, his popularity and previous success leading them, so much that they would jealously allow a minor party to continue to call the shots.
As Regan clearly pointed out, and you could tell the audience only believed her, the SNP have given up on independence, women’s rights (upcoming bill a trans cover) and, as voters will show them, good governance.
As long as they tap into the votes of those who fall for words with no action, they feel secure. And that’s the other reason they couldn’t allow a deal with Alba. They simply can never allow others to believe there is any alternative to the SNP to reach that goal. Regan coming in would raise Alba’s profile. It’s a low bar, but Regan is easily more competent. Behind her, Salmond’s profile would increase. And his competence has rarely been in doubt.
Every person who sees that others are clearer, cleverer, and more capable is a vote they lose. And it wouldn’t take long.
If there’s a big enough election defeat, perhaps there will be one of those searches for identity we see in Conservative and Labour parties. It will be tougher, as the extremists are the ones in power, not the ones destabilising from the wings. It will take longer, and could well be even more of a crack down on dissent, with some extra sloganeering.
Those in the party who disagree are going to have to stand up at some point. Otherwise, they are troughers along for the ride, too weak to make a difference.
Hatuey
“Scotland pushing for independence at that time could have tipped the balance and turned the disaster of Brexit into utter calamity, with the UK seat on the security council, confidence in the economy, Sterling, and everything that matters on the line.”
It was the Americans that instructed Brexit.
The Americans wanted the UK to leave because of the UN security seat & they know what was coming to the EU. It’s backfired spectacularly tho. They thought they’d be carving up Rs resources by now. Disappointed.
“Salmond was found innocent” There is no such verdict in the courts.
There is NO hope for the SNP.
If enough members do not back Graeme McCormick I hope that they all rot in hell.
Maybe N Gray’s reaction is a visual proof that the party worked with London to attack AS.
MaryB @ 8:30 pm 5 May
Can anyone on here tell me the Alba party policy on Freeports in Scotland?
———————-
« AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT OF FREEPORTS. IN SCOTLAND
« Freeports have historically led to money laundering, tax avoidance, reduced workers’ rights and a loosening of health and safety regulations. There is nothing in the current plans that would prevent this happening in Scotland. The Scottish government initially rejected the UK’s Freeport plans and drew up its own Freeport plans renaming them ‘Greenports’, which put requirements on business seeking to take advantage of the Freeport regime.
« The UK Government overruled the Scottish Government and now the Freeports are UK Freeports and the Scottish Government merely ‘hopes’ employers will meet their original requirements such as paying the real living wage or abiding by net zero targets.
« Freeports will create two separate workforces in Scotland, one with the full protection of current employment and health and safety legislation and the workforce in the Freeport with far less legal protection and at the whim of the corporations which run the Freeports.
« In addition, Freeports do not create additional jobs but rather suck jobs from the surrounding areas, leaving those areas at a disadvantage. The Freeports put increased demand on transport and other infrastructure.
« Other Freeport issues include:
– A border around the port which will increase paperwork and costs for those using the port.
– Lack of guarantees on trade union recognition.
– It is unclear how local authorities will gain and they may well lose out on payment of business rates.
« Freeports are in effect tax havens. The government will get less income. For example, they will lose employers NICs in the Freeport area.
« In the future Scotland will have to live with the detrimental consequences of ‘UK Freeports’ long after we are independent.
« Whilst the UK Government uses the simple term Freeports the Scottish Government cynically decided to brand them, and to greenwash them, by calling them Green Freeports. There is no appreciable difference between Freeports and Green Freeports, and the resolution uses the term Green Freeports when opposing the Scottish Government’s use of them and Freeports when talking about them in a UK, Westminster context.
« ALBA strongly opposes the creation of two Green Freeports in Scotland – Opportunity Cromarty Firth, and Firth of Forth Green Freeport – as a joint enterprise by the Scottish Government and the UK Government.
« ALBA condemns the Scottish Government for the lack of a proper economic development plan for Scotland’s coastal and island economies. ALBA notes that Green Freeports are contrary to developing a proper industrial strategy for the coastal regions of Scotland.
« We therefore call on the Scottish Government to cease the development of Green Freeports in Scotland and to reject the UK Government’s promotion and development of Freeports. »
https://www.albaparty.org/freeports_alba
“They would dump their own leader to keep Salmond away from them.”
This!
Salmond’s done everything possible formed a new party, wee alba book roadshows – every town in Scotland. He’s got his TV show interviewing people on youtube.
Many strategies offered to the SNP – like the independence super majority for the Holyrood parliament.
The plebiscite defacto referendum plan for the general election.
The Independence alliance proposal not to happen.
Dropping the divisive Greens and woke agenda and governing for Scotland – ignored.
They do the opposite of what we need every single time. It pisses me off. 10 years on from the referendum I want the SNP dead. I would spit on the partys grave. I wish them the gravest of ills to befall.
Geri at 9:05 pm
“It was the Americans that instructed Brexit.
The Americans wanted the UK to leave because of the UN security seat & they know what was coming to the EU. It’s backfired spectacularly tho. They thought they’d be carving up Rs resources by now. Disappointed.“
Oh yeah, I remember them coming round my house and telling me to vote Leave…
What on earth are you on about?
Salmond offered his advise for free many times. On the correct way forward.
Ash Regan – was the leader the SNP needed. But they’ve rigged the election for a second time.
It’s just utterly pathetic from the SNP. So out of touch with reality but then again that’s the woke liberal elite for you.
Wait and you see the Eurovision song contest for Britain this week. It’ll be a career ender for Olly Alexander who’s reportedly going to perform a sex act on stage with gay men. It never fails to bemuse me how out of touch the metropolitan elite really are with the Scottish.
@Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
Thanks for the Freeport info. That’s about right considering similar things across the world.
Has Forbes ever been questioned on any of these points and why she still agrees with them?
@hatuey
Your posts show a timeline of changes in approach, suggesting FM was turned. What were the reasons for her being turned?
Mia suggesting FFA accomodation.
“why they were so determined to keep Salmond out”
From the perspective of the BE and the USA elements’ perspective I think it is rather obvious: Mr Salmond did what they considered the impossible:
1. He brought support for independence from 23% in January 2013 to over 50% (as I said above I do not believe the official line that No won in 2014)
2. He forced the UK gov to concede on Devo Max as the only possible thing that could stop independence albeit temporarily
3. He brought the SNP from the fringes to become the third party in the UK in terms of membership. Considering that Scotland has less than a 10% of England’s population, this is an amazing achievement
4. He set the SNP on course for a landslide – a majority of SNP MPs could very well end the treaty of union at any time.
All this meant that if he was left in place, he would be in a position to deliver independence in no time and the car-crash of brexit offered him the perfect opportunity for this.
From the perspective of Sturgeon and co, it is my personal opinion that they had to get rid of him for two reasons:
1. initially, because halting any pursuit of independence, acquiescence to brexit and transforming the sNP machine into a devolution party might have been part of some deal Sturgeon cut with the BE. In my opinion what she negotiated was mid to long-term implementation of something down the lines of some watered down version of FFA rebranded as full fiscal responsibility. I do not see Mr Salmond acquiescing to that when support for independence is around 50%
2, Secondly, in my opinion, Sturgeon’s animosity against Mr Salmond was a consequence of her own narcissism. Mr Salmond left a hell of a lot of resources at Sturgeon’s disposal to deliver independence: an absolute majority both in Holryood and Westminster, over 100,000 SNP members, support for independence around 50%, a vow quickly being exposed as a huge con and a EU ref on the horizon. With all those resources, FFA or its watered down version FFresponsibility fall well below expectations. Seeing him around only served to remind her of her own failure to capitalise on all those resources. I do not see how a narcissist would be able to stand it.
3. Later on, having to contend with the failure to beat him in court and basically being exposed as a liar and a back-stabber (metaphorically speaking) in the eyes of a sizeable proportion of the yes movement which used to adulate her, must have been unbearable.
As the time went on, the inefficiency and incompetence of Sturgeon in government and her betrayal of the people of Scotland became far too obvious. If you are a narcissist, the idea that you will be remembered as an insignificance who achieved nothing because you are being constantly compared with your predecessor, must be difficult to swallow.
Add to this that she may perceive him as the main reason for many people turning against her – akin of a wife beater telling her “look what you made me do”, and you start to understand why she cannot back down. Backing down now would be having to accept that she was truly outsmarted by the BE.
It is my opinion that at some point already in 2014/early 2015, Sturgeon might have entered some sort of negotiations with the BE for something down the lines of FFA or as they rebranded it Full fiscal Responsibility.
But delivery of that might have been conditional to never again holding a referendum or campaigning in a way that would show the level of support for independence in Scotland. In other words, transform the SNP into a devolutionist party.
I think they knew Mr Salmond would never settle for that and why they needed him out.
“I believe at the root of everything is political blackmail of some sort. I point out that May came up through the Home Office which has direct control over MI5”
I am sure you are absolutely right and there is an element of that. In fact, it is my opinion that the alphabetes and the elements in the SnP and Sturgeon’s gov that got involved in the Salmond case are now fully dependent on the protection from the BE, which is holding over them operation branchform and exposure as the sword of damocles.
But my gut feeling and the sly way Sturgeon has behaved, the desperation to push Mr Salmond out of politics above anything else, and then the intervention of so many elements of the BE in the stitch up of Mr Salmond tells me they were all colluding, ie they were following an agreed plan.
“Britain was in a very precarious position after the Brexit vote. It’s very easy to imagine that the British Government would have gone to any lengths to keep a lid on Scottish nationalism with so much hanging in the balance”
I totally agree and I am sure elements of MI5 are in control of the SNP and I would not be surprised if the Greens too.
But in my view, the BE and the Americans saw the risks of brexit well before the EU ref took place. I am of the opinion that the takeover of the SNP started before the 2014 indyref, but it increased its pace afterwards.
“Scotland pushing for independence at that time could have tipped the balance and turned the disaster of Brexit into utter calamity, with the UK seat on the security council, confidence in the economy, Sterling, and everything that matters on the line”
I couldn’t agree more. Should the political fraud Sturgeon really dragged her heels and declared that the triggering of A50 without Scotland’s agreement was unconstitutional violating A50 conditions, and the BE would be absolutely Fkd. Without any trade agreements and totally surrounded by EU countries, and with little left to sell, England would have been isolated and unable to exit the EU.
” I believe she was genuinely interested in independence up to this point and genuinely saw Brexit as a potential game-changer. It was”
In this point we diverge. I am of the opinion you cannot change your principles overnight. In my view Sturgeon was a bad one. She was putting up a performance, but deep down she was a devolutionist through and through.
“And for what it’s worth, I think the mechanism that was triggered in 2017 that resulted in the dramatic change in approach is still in play today”
100% agree with you. Whatever deal they were promised has clearly not been delivered yet and still can revert, hence their frantic attempts to hold on the hand break of independence and keeping Mr Salmond out.
Whatever their reasons, whatever their intentions, whatever their aspirations, it does not matter. What matters is that these people, by accident or by design, have deliberately frustrated independence for the best part of 10 years, have betrayed the people of Scotland and, during that time, they have been enabling the stripping of Scotland from its assets.
Handing the stone of destiny to the English king was, in my view, the ultimate betrayal, the ultimate insult and a sign they were no longer working for Scotland. It also proves they see Scotland as a subjugate to England.
That is, in my view, absolutely unforgivable and unforgettable.
Graeme McCormick is NOT standing for leader. He has spoken to John Swinney and now SUPPORTS JS.
Mad. How on earth can he trust JS?
What another disappointment.
Graeme McCormick – a disappointment that’s for sure. Still, better we find out his unsuitability before rather than after.
Maybe they’ve offered him a cut-price campervan.
Disappointed
Was looking forward to see how far the membership numbers had fallen
Now we will not know-thats why swindle talked him into withdrawing
Graeme McCormack will have been told he’s going to have his legs broken. Police Scotland will have planted something on him.
He’s been threatened. Quite simply. It’s how Sturgeon operates.
It’s impossible for a man to do a complete 180 u-turn in the space of 24 hours.
They’ve got to him and his family. This is a criminal enterprise we’re talking about.
The men in the grey kilts don’t stand a chance against the men in the grey skirts.
Okay Mia, there are a few sequential issues with what you say but there is one major one that is central to everything — there is no evidence of a rift between Salmond and Sturgeon prior to mid-2017.
There is evidence to suggest that Salmond was quite perturbed by the decision to put independence on the back burner in the general election of that year, though, which fits with my theory that Sturgeon was turned in the first half of 2017 (27th March, 2017, to be precise).
And I suppose the decision to de-prioritise independence in that election is a perplexing one given the mood of the time, the opportunity Brexit provided, and the clear need to create and maintain momentum. That decision was highly suspicious and contradictory but it snugly fits with my “turned” theory.
Your theory has difficulty in explaining Sturgeon’s seemingly sincere determination to use Brexit as a pretext for another referendum, and when she came at that press conference on the day the Brexit result was declared, nobody anywhere doubted her seriousness in suggesting it was time for Scotland to be given the opportunity to think again about the union (in line with the 2015 SNP manifesto which specifically defined a Brexit as a material change and trigger).
In a nutshell, your theory doesn’t explain the dramatic difference we see in Sturgeon prior to the meeting with May in March 2017 as compared to her stance after that meeting, when she decided to de-prioritise independence and totally contradict her previous posture.
I think we are more or less on the same page, though, and I don’t suppose it really matters now.
Nobody should ever underestimate the great lengths the UK Government and all its servants will go to in order to prevent Scotland breaking away. That’s as to be expected, since with Scotland becoming independent they stand to lose so much.
The National Socialist Party of Scotland sent around the Brown Shirts in Black Jack boots. Sturgeon’s McMafia made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.
thothscot: “Your posts show a timeline of changes in approach, suggesting FM was turned. What were the reasons for her being turned?”
I don’t understand the question. The reasons from a UK government perspective would revolve around preventing Scottish independence, obviously.
If you are asking me what might have been used to turn her, I have no idea. There are various options one might reach for if one wanted to convince someone of the merits of looking at things differently.
All I know is that Sturgeon seems to have changed around the middle of 2017, on an issue that was all important to her politics.
Perhaps he is just gullible….
James Jones
“Oh yeah, I remember them coming round my house and telling me to vote Leave…
What on earth are you on about?”
They didn’t need to come round yer house.
They just flooded the Tories with ‘Dark money’
Adjusted the algorithms across all their social media platforms (Facebook ads etc with vote leave)
Send a memo to the MSM to comply.
Create a *hostile environment to immigration* & even throw in a few terrorist threats/ swarms are coming & bobs yer uncle – fckwits eager to sign up to vote leave. The EU was creating an army LOL. (They already had one, it’s Americas NATO)
You seem awful naive.
Did you learn nothing from the empire?
Look at the absolute mess of the EU economy at the moment. ALL by instruction from the USA. The US vultures have already bought up 404 farmlands, blew up the EUs cheap energy pipelines, instructed them to commit theft, back war criminals & genocide as well as told to boycott china LOL!
They’re being hung out to dry. Von der liar is their plant.
She’s been to the EU what Sturgeon was to the SNP. The kiss of death.
James Jones
“Oh yeah, I remember them coming round my house and telling me to vote Leave…
What on earth are you on about?”
They didn’t need to come round yer house.
They just flooded the Tories with ‘Dark money’
Adjusted the algorithms across all their social media platforms (Facebook ads etc with vote leave)
Send a memo to the MSM to comply.
Create a *hostile environment to immigration* & even throw in a few terrorist threats/ swarms are coming & bobs yer uncle – fckwits eager to sign up to vote leave. The EU was creating an army LOL. (They already had one, it’s American owned NATO)
You seem awful naive.
Did you learn nothing from the empire?
Look at the absolute mess of the EU economy at the moment. ALL by instruction from the USA.
Hatuey
“Your theory has difficulty in explaining Sturgeon’s seemingly sincere determination to use Brexit as a pretext for another referendum, and when she came at that press conference on the day the Brexit result was declared, nobody anywhere doubted her seriousness in suggesting it was time for Scotland to be given the opportunity to think again about the union (in line with the 2015 SNP manifesto which specifically defined a Brexit as a material change and trigger).”
She was clearly buying time which the YES movement ended up giving her.
Shed absolutely no intention of calling a referendum & why she went on to lose 21 seats in 2017. She shat herself & sat back down.
Sturgeon wasn’t a player through indyref. Salmond even said she wasn’t leadership material. (Why he came back & made her deputy in the first place)
Mia is correct. She’s a narcissist. Narcissists hate losing & they definitely don’t like being challenged or forget a slight cause they’re unhinged. Salmond said he was coming back to politics, some say because he was sick of her fcking up Westminster majority & squandering chances (Not just Brexit but power grab, internal market etc) & Emelda & her grubby wee husband couldn’t allow that to happen or Branchform would’ve happened a lot sooner & they’d both be jailed by now.
It’s Angus Robertson who gave her absolute power over the party. He’s the plant. Questions need addressed on why he saw fit to do that. The party was doing fine until he gave them full control of the party & all it’s branches & conferences. Two eejits that couldn’t run a bath.
Sturgeon “yanked the handbrake, hard” at -exactly- the moment she should have been flooring the accelerator. And from that moment she did everything possible to avoid truly “going for it”, including trying to bury her old mentor.
– her motivation doesn’t interest me. I know she did it, that is all. Plus she, and her crime partner are still in charge of the SNP, amazingly. If she gets banged up will she still control it via use of a snide mobile phone, secreted on her person?
Hatstand has raised an interesting point – a definite date, March 2017, for when she was “got at”/turned/shat it/warned off. It is interesting, for we need details. This is why we have the 30 year rule, we might find out what happened at that meeting long after it matters. A good timeline constrains the possibilities usefully.
The other meeting that always resonates with me is her talk to the CFR; I found this impressive at the time, I thought she was playing a canny game, for indy, but now I think she was just selling us all out, and pimping herself for a job later on. That talk was from 2015 – it is possible, and in hatuey’s theory, she was still for indy at that point. Of course we don’t know the private conversations around this meeting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbSJT4znjTU&t=25s
this is worth a close watch.
VLADIMIR: Suppose we repented.
ESTRAGON: Repented what?
VLADIMIR: Oh . . . (he reflects) We wouldn’t have to go into the details.
— From Beckett’s ‘Waiting for Godot’
________________
VLADIMIR: Et si on repentait ?
ESTRAGON: De quoi ?
VLADIMIR: Eh bien . . . (Il cherche). On n’aurait pas besoin d’entrer dans les détails.
— Extrait de ‘En Attendant Godot’, de Beckett
________________
(Above quotes appear as frontispiece notes in the English and the French version of Alasdair Gray’s LANARK)
I suspect that yer man that was planning on standing for election as leader has been leaned on somewhat, as he’s apparently “throwing his weight behind” John Swinney.
In other news; Suella Braverman still a total bampot.
Sturgeon put a hypothetical bill in for a referendum knowing it could be challenged and defeated in the Supreme Court. That was her ticking a box and putting independence to bed. She could say “look I tried”.
If she was serious she would have put the actual bill through first, and dared WM to strike it down. This was not naivity, it was calculated to fail. She didn’t want a referendum or a fight with WM.
This is why the SNP are so dangerous. Her people are still running the party. Swinney doesn’t want independence. But they are wasting years of people’s lives and endangering all our futures.
Whatever else you do. Do not feel guilty about not voting SNP and letting SLAB in. Because they are both the same British parties.
@hatuey
“If you are asking me what might have been used to turn her, I have no idea. There are various options one might reach for if one wanted to convince someone of the merits of looking at things differently.”
Thanks. Yes, that was what I was asking. With a lot of work going into the timeline, I was curious on theories about what it might have taken to make her switch.
Interesting thoughts from others regarding devolutionist through to deeply flawed personality traits. Not that these are mutually exclusive.
Geri, there’s no evidence that Sturgeon was faking her commitment to independence prior to 2017. I’d be willing to bet that everybody here was more or less satisfied with her immediate response to Brexit and that nobody suspected she was being insincere when she said it represented a trigger for indyref2. Consider this an invitation to prove otherwise…
As for the narcissist label, that goes without saying with most politicians. She definitely was. The “I’m with Nicola” slogan on the election pamphlet of 2015 testifies to that. But you can be a narcissist and support independence, and there’s no contradiction in that.
Actually, when you think about it, narcissism would probably make you more susceptible to political pressure, blackmail, and rewards or bribes, not less susceptible.
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
says:
6 May, 2024 at 12:01 am
— From Beckett’s ‘Waiting for Godot’
Last time I saw that was at the Lyceum with Bill Paterson and Brian Cox.
“He said he’d be here…”
socrates macsporran
5 May, 2024 at 3:34 pm
“Alex Salmond is our de Gaulle. He should, given the downright hatred of him at the top of the SNP, perhaps leave the day-to-day business of Alba to the likes of Ash Regan, Neale Hanvey and Kenny MacAskill, instead focussing his energies on winning his court cases which will finally silence the character assassination and finish-off the Tractors inside the SNP.”
As the Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
“The only remotely positive outcome we can see from the last week’s events is that Alba might finally, belatedly realise that their strategy of co-operation with the SNP will never, ever work.
The SNP are not only Alba’s enemy in a direct political sense, they are also the enemy of the independence movement as a whole. They are a bloated, rotten corpse blocking its path.”
There is a very quick and easy way of clearing Alex Salmond once and for all and at the same time burning the rotten corpse blocking independence.
All that is needed is for MacAskill or Hanvey to stand up in the House of Commons and name all Salmond’s accusers.
It is time for massive grassroots pressure to be put on them to just do it.
Hatuey
Ignored says:
6 May, 2024 at 12:11 am
…… I’d be willing to bet that everybody here was more or less satisfied with her immediate response to Brexit and…
Not me. Sturgeon has always been a crushing disappointment, from the moment she became leader.
After 2014, the Unionists had been forced to concede that Scotland would receive more powers, but it was never specified what those powers would be. They had signed the cheque but neglected to enter the amount.
Sturgeon could have hit the ground running, and announced a snap Plebiscite designed to have the sovereign people of Scotland dictate which “reserved” powers they wanted back in Scotland, and due to the Claim of Right, Westminster would be in all kinds of trouble trying to prevent it. Don’t forget the 56/59 momentum of 2015…
Sturgeon being Sturgeon of course did absolutely nothing… except let the Unionists off the hook.
Ok, maybe I could concede that a snap Plebiscite coming immediately after a Referendum was always going to be a big ask, but it would have been worth it. I cannot see ANY portfolio being delegated to Westminster. Not given the mood of 2015.
Just imagine the ramifications Scotland taking control over Broadcasting… Or more likely, let’s not kid ourselves, the damage to the Union suffered by Westminster’s inevitable duplicity and squirming reluctance to concede actual control.
Sturgeon has never been a “Bonnie Fechter” in my opinion. But despite that insight, even I couldn’t read the hidden depth of her dark infidelities.
Not sure he invented it, but I think it was Anthony Beevor who described Hitler having the “sun ray affect” over Rommel; Rommel would meet with Hitler full of grave misgivings and anxiety about the state of the war, but time and again, Hitler had the uncanny capacity to placate and reassure these anxieties. It didn’t seem superficial either. Rommel was genuinely won over… in large part anyway.
I felt something similar about Sturgeon. She seemed able to inspire confidence in people, but how and why has always eluded me. Just like Hitler, she has always been the jumped-up little Corporal promoted far beyond their abilities. But those who saw through the illusion were never in a position to do anything about it.
The phenomenon extends to the cult-like deference and loyalty amongst her acolytes. How they were mesmerised escapes me, but I recognise the firm hold it took over the afflicted. It was a conundrum; so many spell bound by somebody who was never very spellbinding.
The very dullness of Sturgeon is one of the biggest “tells” that she isn’t the wily strategist at the heart of all this. She just doesn’t have the capacities. She is just a vessel for a more potent malevolence, most likely the UK Establishment.
Once people shake themselves loose from this bizarre fixation they’re under, they’re going to feel such fools.
There has been a debate BTL in a number of previous topics about whether Kate ‘Freeports’ Forbes is the ‘great white saviour’ that can turn around the SNP to be an independence party again and I’ve been meaning to comment on it.
When looking at Alex Salmond recently on TV, it’s hard not to compare him to her.
While Salmond has only been given the air of publicity by certain parts of the media in order to try to get him to discredit the SNP, he speaks of his opposition to SNP policies in a sincere and conciliatory manner.
He also avoids this trap and changes the narrative of the interview by pushing it i the direction of independence which is what he and his supporters want him to talk about.
Contrasting this to the media presence of Freeports Forbes, apart from a few scripted reference to independence, she sounds no different from the bland, media polished young political class that is seen throughout the world.
To be fair, the problem that Freeports Forbes faces is that she has to deal with problems that has been caused by the policies of her own party.
For me, Independence is supposed to be about a solution to Scottish problems as well as a bulwark against the excesses of the neo-liberal Westminster system. In essence, it is a vision that is different from the Status quo but also workable for a modern, mature Western democracy.
There is no way that the likes of Freeports Forbes can talk to the people of Scotland about independence being a positive option when her own party is implementing policies that are no different from those pursued by Westminster.
Again using the issue of Trans as an example, the SNP could have been arguing that independence could having been a bulwark against the social liberalism being passively tolerated by the Tory government but pursing a more aggressive policy which are making people actually feel safer under the Westminster system.
Ultimately, no SNP politician can further the argument of independence towards the Scottish population as long as they pursue policies that undermine the argument.
Looks like it is Venn Diagram time for Alba
The question is How they can increase their profile so that people do not feel they are wasting their vote for a party that is too wee.
Although displacing the greens to hold the hammer would be a great start.
An excellent piece pointing out just how absurd the SNP rejection of the ALBA party ideas was. And still, the unelected greens know they have full control of the SNP.
The sad fact is, that the SNP since, and during, Sturgeon as leader, has been nothing like the fiercely pro independence party Alex Salmond shaped. The party that brought Scotland so close to independence.
The current SNP is a sham independence party – just as it was for decades upon decades. Working WITH London, to act as a ‘lightning rod’ for pro independence sentiment. A place where Scottish people who wanted rid of English rule, could essentially tread water, over and over again. That ‘promise’ of independence always stated as tantalisingly close, but somehow, magically, never to be delivered.
It is England’s finest creation. Like other shame ‘independence’ parties all through the English colonial history. A tool of English tyranny over Scots.
Oh, yes, the SNP will ‘condemn’, and ‘complain’ and ‘argue’ with London, but that is for show. All part of the act.
Meanwhile, England can continue asset-stripping Scotland, stealing OUR wealth for England’s benefit. The SNP MSP stooges sit in Holyrood, knowing full well they have zero intention of ever pushing for independence, unlike Alex Salmond. And that’s the real issue isn’t it?
When the ilk of Neil Gray talks of ‘rehabilitating’ Alex Salmond, the real problem he means is that Alex Salmond STILL wants to fight for independence, and hence he can never be allowed into Scottish politics.
The SNP, the pretendy independence party.
“Sturgeon has always been a crushing disappointment, from the moment she became leader.”
Breeks.
Absolutely! The ‘Kompromat Queen’. No wonder she avoids Indy demo’s like the plague – shit scared she’d have her own Ceau?escu moment.
First time I have seen this Gray guy.
He is a VERY dislikeable individual and a total fraud standing as an MP of an Independence party.
Much like the SNP itself these days. They all gotta go.
A previous timeline of events posted by Daisy Walker from 3 and half years ago.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/our-number-one-fan/#comment-2579149
I mind Brexit well.
It caused a stushie at the time, largely among those in the professional chattering classes who are well paid to cause stushies.
Then along came Covid and The War, and by comparison to either, Brexit was seen to be the fart in the teacup it always was.
Everywhere apart from here, obviously.
I see the pound is around the 1.16 Euro mark, just as it has been for years. I can’t help thinking those forever banging on about the wrecked UK economy and the crashed EU economy are being a smidge hysterical.
Breeks
“Ok, maybe I could concede that a snap Plebiscite coming immediately after a Referendum was always going to be a big ask, but it would have been worth it. I cannot see ANY portfolio being delegated to Westminster. Not given the mood of 2015.”
I don’t think it’d have been a big ask.
Smith commission was a total farce.
Brown was a liar & so was Cameron. There was not going to be Devo Max & lest we forget the very next month after the No vote Cameron was issuing licences to all that oil that was supposedly running out. Then there is Cameron’s speech on the 19th September putting the boot in to no voters. Thanks but you can fck off now too & WM is officially an English parliament & Scots are at the back of the queue now. England, Wales & NI have our priority now. You’ve had yer ref now shut it.
Then there was Westminster. 56 sent there to pick out office space. Every amendment to the Scotland Act/bill voted down. Scotland was getting nothing & would also face contempt on a daily bases.
Plenty there to spark a re-run & why she lost 21 seats in the snap GE. Even my brother knew back then that she’d no balls to call it.
Regardless of what she claimed GE2015 was not a vote for indy – there was that clause of Brexit & a 62% majority. Also bearing in mind that this eejit gave a mandate for indy to the Greens so she’d absolutely no qualms of sticking to her word.
Hatuey
“Geri, there’s no evidence that Sturgeon was faking her commitment to independence prior to 2017”
Yes there was. She didn’t use the mandate & her thumping 56 majority she had in her pocket did she?
Instead she used every trick in the book to delay & then even tried her best to reverse her own mandate by the end.
She was given a mandate to exit.
Instead she settled into Westminster.
“We’ll wait & see what the terms of Brexit are”
*England tells her to fck off from all negotiations*
“Okay. Here’s our compromises then”
*Fck off. We’re not even reading them*
(Is officially told*devolution is predicted on membership of the EU. As we were leaving well…you get it, right? There’ll be no devolution & we’re stripping back powers)
“Umm, how about more devolution? My friends think this is a great idea. Can I join the people’s vote? I love a microphone!”
*Fck off from that too*
“Okay. Let’s wait until we officially leave then”
“Stop Brexit !!”
“Tum te tum…”
We officially leave with fck all. Clock well & truly run down.
“Oh, here comes a pandemic – thank fck for that! Phew! Where was I? Oh, aye..so TRAs is my new hobby horse now. All aboard the stupid bus to destination fcked. I’ve given her indyref2 vote to the lunatic Greens. That’ll kill it for good.”
“I’ll even go against convention & have absolutely no one from Scotland giving oral argument to the supreme court for indyref2 & the treaty of Union. In fact, I’ll even send an ultra Yoon to present our case & tell them that IF we can have a referendum – they don’t have to respect/implement the result of a Sovereign Nation”
Razzle dazzle ’em. In the end they’ll want more..
When Theresa May said :”now is not the time”. I genuinely believe Sturgeon had no answer to that. She is such a poor strategist, she had no mechanism in place to counter WM saying no.
She just walked into a trap and made herself look silly. Instead she should have gone in with a step plan to allow Scots a vote, and before Brexit happened.
One way to do it was calling a Scottish election based on independence. Westminster would have crumbled before it took place. Let’s face it Theresa May was there for the taking, and the SNP had 59 MPs.
Sturgeon was a terrible leader. You can’t go into a negotiation with only one hand to play. Even school kids know that.
Robert Louis
“is England’s finest creation. Like other shame ‘independence’ parties all through the English colonial history. A tool of English tyranny over Scots.”
So is the *best of both worlds* of the SNP mitigating against their toxic policies. It allows yoons to vote for the SNP knowing fine well they’ll mitigate out the bad stuff & they’ll never call a referendum. Even if they did they could just vote no again. So there is the roadblock.
Interesting times ahead. Labour will have to end mitigation cause they can’t have different policies North & South of the border. Unionists will now have to live with their own policies LOL!
I think this excellent piece of journalism, link below, will be relevant still for some time. The Employment Tribunal decision is likely to offer criticism of ERCC.
https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,how-a-service-set-up-for-traumatised-women-forgot-its-core-function
Questions for Jo Swi, redacted
Watch out for this. it may be on Holyrood TV
https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,cass-review-author-set-to-appear-before-scottish-parliament-health-committee
@dan
Thanks for the link to Daisy Walker’s timeline.
Geri
Your claim that Labour can’t have different policies each side of the border is something you just made up.
Don’t get me wrong, little could please me more than a reduction in Scottish taxes down to the still eye-watering levels paid by those lucky people in the rest of the UK, but I don’t expect it to happen.
Shame really. The SNP’s insistence we can tax our way to prosperity is doomed to the same fate as every where else it has been tried.
Labour will certainly be getting my vote if they promise to bin the HCA and/or the GRA. In fact, any party whatsoever will be worth voting for to ditch that toxic legacy.
Big Jock
I think it was Scott (poster on here) who said she could have instructed a backbencher to write & present an indyref2 bill to Holyrood that wouldn’t be blocked by the presiding officer. She chose not to use that method either.
There is plenty of evidence she wasn’t interested in indyref2. She was a gradualist & a devolutionist & wasn’t even good at that because we got fck all but selfies & book recommendations while Holyrood was being stripped of powers.
An absolute waste of everyone’s time. Achieved hee haw & can’t even blag the baby box cause even that was someone else’s idea. 10 yrs of zero. Wonder what her book will be about? LOL! How to kill a movement stone deid & hopefully failing at that too.
Innarestin stats from Polis.
Early days but possible HCA will soon dwindle to inactivity.
https://www.scotland.police.uk/spa-media/sngjm1ks/hate-crime-and-incidents-report-week-4.pdf
John Curtice nails it.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/24286788.john-curtice-delivers-verdict-humza-yousaf-resignation/
“…getting rid of the First Minister.
He said: “You don’t want to do that if you’re in opposition and the guy in front of you is not very good. You want to keep him hanging on a thread.”
Curtice further said that Yousaf had been “relatively unpopular, relatively weak” and this had actually benefitted both Labour and the Tories…
…On Swinney’s ability to connect with the public, Curtice added: “Swinney’s expertise, I think, is being able to say nothing for three minutes. Definitely who you want as your deputy but it’s not the person to front an election campaign.”
He was scathing about Yousaf’s press conference on Monday, saying the speech was “terrible”.
He added: “It was very self-regarding. Theresa May could do a better job.””
“Your claim that Labour can’t have different policies each side of the border is something you just made up.”
No it isn’t. Go look it up. It’s against the rules of the electoral commission.
One registered party cannot have different policies.
The GRA will stay, ya eejit. That bullshit was Labours idea in the first place LOL.
No – in will come..
Scrapping mitigation for..
School meals
Council tax freeze
Child care
Elderly care
Bedroom tax
Top ups for low income families/ benefit cap/universal reality
Possibly prescriptions & tuition (debatable)
Housing
Lest you all forget, fracking will be in. The power grab removed powers of
Scottish water
Scottish NHS
Procurement
Agriculture & farming
Fishing
Fracking LOL
There was over 80 powers stripped. SNP mitigated out the real picture & locked fracking into a moratorium. That’ll be lifted.
I hope Labour do win. Unionists will have to live with London rule & it’s policies. Yay! I wonder who they’ll blame?
FFS. That’s it then another two-years wasted with Swinney at the helm.
“An SNP activist who planned to challenge John Swinney for the party’s leadership has pulled out of the running.
Graeme McCormick said that he had enough nominations from party branches to trigger a contest but decided not to proceed with his nomination after having a “fruitful conversation” with Swinney. It means that Swinney is set to be crowned SNP leader on Monday afternoon as he is the only candidate.”
“little could please me more than a reduction in Scottish taxes down to the still eye-watering levels paid by those lucky people in the rest of the UK”
Don’t be a plank.
England pays water meters.
Council tax.
Higher rents.
Prescription charges including eye & dental.
Healthcare charges.
Elderly care.
Childcare.
Bus passes.
Bedroom tax.
It doesn’t look the same picture does it? Yer comparing apples with oranges, ya eejit to try save yerself a few bob.. behave.
I’m with you Geri,
Add in No Road or Bridge Tolls
No Hospital Parking Charges for visitors
Free further Education- For University this saves over £27,000 on a 3 year course
Best performing A & E
57% of Scots pay less tax than in England. I pay more and happy to do so.No hungry kids.
Free travel passes for students and over 60’s. Welsh Labour dropping this.
Vote Labour or Tory and wipe all of this out in the pretend we are all in it together garbage.
There have been very good policies here but lately the Trans and Hate Crime Aspectd have gone right off the planet.
robertkknight @ 7:18 am
“The ‘Kompromat Queen’.”
Aye, surely all Scots now know the national party elite by (1) their dubious actions and laws, and (2) their inaction on the core cause of independence. Daes fowk really hiv tae ken ony mair?
Much as we see occurring in practice, postcolonial theory confirms that a dominant national party ‘moves ever closer to colonialism’, it ‘becomes an implement of coercion’, it ‘takes the people up a blind alley’, it ‘feathers its nest’, and it ‘ruptures the movement’ (Fanon), using the standard colonial procedures of ‘divide and rule’ and ‘manipulation’ (Freire).
In other words, as Gray’s curious behaviour demonstrates, the dominant national party elite now views its task as holding back the so-called independence ‘radicals’ and ‘undesirables’, and in doing so it functions as part of the colonialist group known as the ‘watchdogs of colonialism’, whose objective is protecting the interests of the colonizer.
There are no more questions needed to ask of the national party elite, because:
“we do not need to seek or know whether personally (they) are in good or bad faith, whether personally they have good or bad intentions. Whether personally they are or are not colonialists, because the essential thing is that their highly problematical subjective good faith is entirely irrelevant to the objective social implications of the evil work they perform as watchdogs of colonialism” (Cesaire).
In this regard Robin MacAlpine is right to say in his Alex Salmond interview that ‘the SNP are now the main barrier to independence’. Tho as several commentators here have stated, maist of us kent this in 2015!
Separation of powers.
Why should the SNP leader be an elected parliamentary politician?
Elect the leader, president or preces by popular party member ballot, the chosen then being the guardian of its aims and constitution.
Why should there be a single «leader», why not a triumvirate, praesidium ot the like so as no «clique» dominates.
The off course crisis in the SNP originates in the parliamentary party having too much, proven unaccountable, power to play with.
Independence has been victim of parliamentary party «indifference».
It isn’t complicated.
Scotland is a colony and the Scots have no say whatsoever in how their country is run. None at all.
Devolution was designed specifically to confuse, delude and subdue the Scots. To convince them with a lie that they had real choice. They don’t
The devolved political route to independence can be easily compromised by England. For instance, I have no idea who Graeme McCormick is, but he might well be yet another player in the colonial circus show offering the Scots the pretence of choice. A part of the act.
Who knows what’s real in Scottish politics?
Probably safest to assume that nothing is real in Holyrood and that everything is a scam designed to obstruct the independence movement.
And probably safest to assume that if any of the current crop of Scottish politician’s lips are moving…they’re lying.
Breeks: “Not me. Sturgeon has always been a crushing disappointment, from the moment she became leader.
Okay. Show me a comment or article by you written prior to 2017 that slates Sturgeon in the sort of terms you describe.
You won’t. You would struggle to find anyone on the Indy side criticising her prior to 2017.
Regardless, most were happy with Sturgeon until 2017. Her immediate response to Brexit was well received amongst Yes voters, etc.
Only when Sturgeon changed did we change towards her.
@ TURABDIN
says:
6 May, 2024 at 10:30 am
Separation of powers.
Why should the SNP leader be an elected parliamentary politician?
Elect the leader, president or preces by popular party member ballot, the chosen then being the guardian of its aims and constitution.
Why should there be a single «leader», why not a triumvirate, praesidium ot the like so as no «clique» dominates.
The off course crisis in the SNP originates in the parliamentary party having too much, proven unaccountable, power to play with.
Independence has been victim of parliamentary party «indifference».
Control. Of power, message and policy. The SNP have spent years shaping grass roots power, while centralising control. Dissenting voices have frequently been purged, with no tactic too low to achieve this.
That’s allowed only the goals of a handful to control everything. To the point that the party becomes beholden to the beliefs of that core, and not themselves. Where that core can control numbers and finances and oust first ministers.
Not a chance they would ever concede to have other voices in the party heard. Other parties are not dissimilar. However, they often have broader churches to keep on board. The SNP learned a lot from watching other parties reach the conclusion that a single voice showed unity to voters. That any difference would be picked up by rivals (which they would be). They’ve just gone to extremes to ensure that such things can never happen.
Humza pretending not to have channels to his mistress on his election. Those same channels, through her, removing him when he stepped out of line. Everyone linked with a bid, having a chat with Swinney before dropping out. All for the greater good of the SNP, or else.
Graeme McCormick has undoubtedly put in some serious effort over the years with an example being his traveling round Scotland visiting YES groups giving talks to showcase his AGR proposal. I’ve often wondered why Graeme has stayed in the NuSNP so long. He’s obviously an intelligent individual capable of interpreting and collating detailed information to put together his Annual Ground Rent proposal.
But year on year it gets no serious consideration at his chosen Party’s conference.
Is he oblivious to how his chosen Party has been captured and its constitution altered, and all past attempts by very committed Indy-minded members and activists to try to counter this malignant takeover have come to nothing because of the way his Party’s elite have stitched up all options to redress the power imbalance that the cliquey cabal now hold over the wider membership.
If quite so many can see how awful the NuSNP has become then why can’t he?
I’m at the point of thinking that anyone left in the NuSNP is now at it in some way. Graeme’s quick in and out leadership challenge has just helped identify any remaining dissenting voices faction in the Party that isn’t aligned with the gravy swilling swinefest of devolutionist (aka Unionist) Swinneyists…
The SNP should be renamed The Transhumanist Party. This correctly describes their real agenda.
Hatuey
Ignored says:
6 May, 2024 at 11:04 am
Only when Sturgeon changed did we change towards her.
Aah – the fall to the dark side. What happened? Seduced by the dark side of the force or just a naughty girl from the go that eventually got found out? The empire strikes back.
The only explanation that I can think of is that she was seriously compromised by some event(s) in the past and that the UK establishment got to her. The UK media went through the motions of course, but suspiciously gave her an easy ride (even built her up at times) which suggests that she was already owned by the time that she took the reigns.
There may be other explanations of course, but that’s the most plausible IMO.
The other thing that “troubles” me about the SNP is the extremely blinkered narrative you see in the media.
The trials and tribulations of the SNP are rarely, if ever, faithfully reported as the Independence community becomming increasingly disillusioned with the SNP through their tepid inaction over Independence.
It’s not about the Greens. It’s Independence.
It’s not about Perverts Self ID. It’s Independence.
It’s not about Hate Crime. It’s Independence.
WE KNOW WHAT WE WANT. – And it isn’t a fresh load of bullshit.
Similarly, but equally detached from reality, the Unionist’s witter on upon the SNP’s “obsession” with Independence, when frankly, the subject hasn’t been raised in months. It’s all revealed as just a scripted process just manufacturing a headline. They don’t care if it’s true, and neither does the media.
It’s all smoke and mirrors. The narrative being served up to the Scottish public is contrived and misleading. When was the last time you saw SALVO or the Claim of Right argument given any significant airtime?
Even in 2014, the narrative was always dictated by their agenda, never ours, and never the actual merits of reality and Scotland’s objective disadvantage and exploitation.
We are living in our own Scottish version of The Truman Show. Our lives are a lie, and the political narrative we see on our viewscreens is all manufactured tripe.
Or do you really think that Swinney / Yousaf / Sturgeon are the very best of us, promoted to power because they’re so effective defending Scotland’s interests? Jesus Christ, what kind of fked up selection process has served up this happy band of delinquent fraudsters to “lead” us?
Jezuz H. – Swinney’s career peaked 20 years ago, and he was exposed as a dud back then. Suddenly he’s the steadying hand on the tiller? What a farce. All of it.
Ooh the irony !
On the one year anniversary of the coronation of King Charles, we have the chance to celebrate the coronation of Mr Swinney on his ascension to the rule of Scotland.
There has never been a greater disconnect in modern times between the populace and the programme being offered by the mainstream parties.
Even the much derided Blair promised and delivered some degree of reform (compulsory Union recognition, Devolution, minimum wage, … ). Starmer offers none of this. This sorry state is the culmination of many years of covert planning and manipulation. The Blairite, Forward faction in the Labour Party, the John Smith Centre in Scotland and many other Security Services connected organisations.
The outcome of last week’s, English Local Elections are more interesting than the BBC would have you believe. Starmer’s Labour Party did remarkably poorly, independent candidates flourished.
Craig Murray is confident regards his election as MP for Blackburn. As much as I have no vested interest in the manifesto of the Workers Party of Great Britain, they are not convened in the mould of the mainstream parties. They appear to be a confederation of strong, independent individuals in stark contrast to the young, middle-class careerist of Labour, etc..
Two former Ambassadors, respected campaigners, current and former MPs and sporting celebrities, WPGB come close to presenting a slate of independent candidates.
The spooks of Thames House will have their work cut out. They will have to target individuals where their most recent experience has been in infiltrating and controlling party HQs (Jackson’s Entry to name but one).
Distributed, semi-autonomous resistance is the way to go.
Support your local, independent candidate!
There’s only two things that’d keep anyone in the NuSNP.
One is salary. The other is the rainbow flag.
That’s it.
There’s nothing else going for it.
Salmonds ideas have all dried up now. Replaced by Mickey Mouse side issues the majority do not want or even asked for but will be implemented anyway to please the empire remaining in a dead end.
Unionists vote for the SNP. There was no clearer example of that than when Ash presented a plebiscite. They all fell over themselves to howl how unfair that’d be.
Hatuey
I suggest you watch some Phantom Power vids. Plenty complaining of no action. I can think of Allen Bissett. He had her card stamped in 2016. She was a gradualist. A devolutionist & a waste of everyone’s time. So much so at one point he thought Corbyn would be better to deliver a ref than Sturgeon was.
She was fcking about with selfies while watching powers being stripped from Holyrood & the fake internal market bill.
She didn’t throw a deaf ear. She was allowing time for it to be implemented while she watched two mandates expire. Brexit vote & the mandate to trigger indyref2. That wasn’t by accident.
“Now is not the time” wasn’t Mayhems to give. Sturgeon had two mandates. Three if you want to include Holyrood election at that time.
Umm “Now is not the time for democracy” doesn’t have the same ring to it but that was what she was accepting.
Effigy.
Agreed. Once unionists live with unionist policies the better. It may shut them up once reality kicks in with the added benefit of hitting their pocket.
“Show me the money” lol!
Aye, okay. Haud oan tae yer bank statements…
Weapons don’t buy themselves ya know…
I’ve said on here gor 3 years that the snp members were getting played for FOOLS re Indy Gravy Train is all their interested in
Hatuey @ 11:04 am
“You would struggle to find anyone on the Indy side criticising her prior to 2017”
This article from 2017 implies criticism of the SNPs lack of action over Scotland’s enforced Brexit and disrespect of successive electoral mandates to hold a further referendum. It is also perhaps more importantly the initial contemporary analysis of Scotland’s treatment and condition as effectively a colony of England which our enforced Brexit and various other factors indicated.
https://newsnet.scot/archive/brexit-vote-underline-scotland-not-country-colony/
OT. Raptors still having a hard time in Perthshire… 🙁
https://raptorpersecutionuk.org/2024/05/04/police-appeal-for-info-after-osprey-remains-found-nr-loch-of-the-lowes-reserve-perthshire/
A potential upside to the current excuse for a political party that is the SNP, is that, if they were to lose the next Scottish election, this could/should lead to a complete clear out of the old guard, replaced by a more radical independence party. Not being in Government, they could then revert to their proper role as an insurgency party, pointing out Westminster and Holyrood shortcomings and promote the cause of independence unfettered by the need to also Govern. They could spend the duration of the parliament promoting the cause of independence with the promise that, if elected at the next Scottish election they will immediately declare Scotland independent.
The matter of Scotland’s independence was never going to be settled by a fair, unhindered vote restricted to indigenous Scots, a polite exchange of letters, and a handshake warmly wishing the Scots all the very best.
Scotland is a colony. And I’m fairly sure I’m right in thinking that no colonised people in the entire history of colonies has ever been handed the keys to their gaol cell by their imprisoners on request. But I might be wrong, Alf Baird will tell me if I am.
I’ve been reading up on the Picts, or the Preteni or the Cruithin as they have also been called. They were never defeated by the Romans.
The Picts were never defeated by the Romans because they refused to fight using Roman military tactics and rules of engagement. Even Caesar wrote about how unfairly the Picts played the game when fighting his imperial forces.
Ultimately the Picts, a peaceful people according to some modern theories, on having their switch flipped by those arrogant Romans, went into warrior mode and stopped Rome’s ambitions for North Britain at a big wall the terrified Romans built to protect themselves from Pictish wrath.
Maybe Scotland’s independence movement should take a lesson from the Picts and refuse to play the game using somebody else’s book of rules.
@Geri says: 6 May, 2024 at 12:02 pm
“Once unionists live with unionist policies the better”
Erm.
You’re the one banging on about everybody in HR being a plant, a tractor, etc. and doing London’s job for them.
Do you have any logical arguments at all?
What’s your beef with fracking? It used to be Scotland’s Oil, remember? I don’t remember being asked if I wanted Scotland to go all green virtue signalling.
I’m with the Scottish descended next POTUS: “Drill, baby, drill”.
As for weapons, it’s high time Scotland got some decent manufacturing jobs back. Arms and ammunition have always been well paid employment opportunities. I expect that the many Scots who would welcome some well paying jobs won’t be keen on purists like you sniffily telling them to stay on the dole.
And nobody is threatening the SNHS. You just made that up.
I spent the bulk of my working life as a sports writer. In football these days, received wisdom has it that you need one squad to get you into the top flight, but, the guys who got you there have to be almost totally replaced if you want to stay there.
It looks to be the same in politics – the people whose work and drive got the SNP into government have been replaced by time-servers, whose sole aim is an easy life, maybe building-up a nice wee empire which they can rule until retirement.
The men in the grey kilts are now definitely in-charge. They are fortifying their wee empires, we may as well let them fuck things up totally, and while old Boomers such as myself will never see it, it’s now, I fear, up to us to galvanise our grandchildren to take-up the battle, once the current bunch of chancers have been flung out and the Red and Blue Tory Unionist Alliance has further buggered-up Scotland.
OK, we will definitely leave them with a much-harder battle to win, but, I have faith they can do it.
The return of Swinney has left me deeply despondent. Corporal Frazer was right.
The greatest creation of England recently was the pretence of Scottish Devolution. And a supreme court,
It installs two sets of laws over Scottish people compared to England, but England is still able to step in and control the Devolved parliament when it needs too,
Good examples are during Brexit, the Barnett formula, Free ports, Referendums, the control over more devolved powers to Scotland or (not).
Tories are registered and are able to be voted in both sides of the border, labour the same both sides of the border, as are lib dems and greens both sides of the border
Civil servants in the devolved government to control the political parties in Scotland.
And the Supreme Court used for removing Scotland right to self determination. And the Claim of Right, when required, for the likes of trade or when Alex Salmond managed to make The SNP the third biggest party in Westminster it had to be controlled and knocked back with the help of those civil servants.
Everything set up in the devolved government behind the scenes to control, stymie and prevent Scotland taking issues into their own hands,
The one controlling factor over Scotland setting up double standards
So Sturgeon the Judas and her old guard (clique) which includes Swinney removed Yousaf from office, yet Yousaf is in the news today fawning over Swinney and saying that he’ll make a wonderful SNP leader and FM, what a spineless gutless groveling obedient puppet Yousaf is.
So Swinney has been coronated as the SNP leader and FM, I wonder what BS he told McCormack to make him stepdown or was it all just a ruse to start with.
If McCormack was serious about being the next SNP leader, what did Swinney say to make him change his mind, more to the point does anyone actually believe that Swinney will genuinely attempt to achieve independence, No? nor do I.
C’mon Operation Branchform (Police Scotland) do your f*kin job and arrest and rearrest and charge the clique that’s holding the progression of Scottish independence back.
The same applies to the COPFS we’re f*ckin watching.
More than likely it will be another two-years of identity politic s forced up us will Scotland falls apart at the seams.
@Northcode 1:42
Would that be the same Picts who the Scots boasted in the Declaration Of Arbroath they had “completely destroyed”?
Whoops! If only our ancestors hadn’t been such genocidal barstewards we could be Independent today.
At least that’s one way of looking at it. Another way is to wonder at how effete and helpless we have become that we can’t even muster a simple majority of votes in favour of Indy.
But to be serious, Northcode. The next time you feel the need to post a call for us Scots to be more like an extinct race, take the time to think it through first.
I have now read almost three complete books, big books tae, on what is known of the mysterious Picts and by internet standards am now an expert on such matters.
One thing I discovered is that modern theory postulates that it was the Vikings who killed the Kings of the Picts, but not the general populace.
And although a haunfu of Scots with an agenda, in an attempt to curry favour with the Pope of the day who mistakenly thought of the Picts as barbarians, claimed to have killed-off the Picts, modern theory suggests the Scotti and the Picts amalgamated in common cause – that of Christianity.
Apparently the Picts were the first people documented to have believed in an immortal soul and many of their beliefs, which pre-dated Christianity by some measure of time, fitted neatly into the Christian faith.
So it would seem the Picts are still with us. Indeed many of us might be direct descendants.
By the way, the ancient Greeks are documented as saying that much of their initial enlightenment was founded on the teachings and beliefs of the ancient Picts. That makes complete sense to me. Being a ScotPict and all.
I’m with Alf Baird on this matter – when independence is achieved we should immediately rename Scotland to Pictland.
Northcode @ 3:33 pm
“I’m with Alf Baird on this matter – when independence is achieved we should immediately rename Scotland to Pictland.”
Aye, the archaeological and historical record tells us exactly whaur we come fae and wha we are, an oor cultur, langage and verra identity.
It is truly amazing how almost our entire history has been re-written for us. But as we know, this is what the colonizer and his ‘functionaries’ do – it is actually a standard ‘colonial procedure’ of imperial rule, just like replacing a fowk’s langage, an its chiefs/monarchs.
And all these myths a colonized group are force fed will only be fully rectified when the people are finally liberated and able to recover their own selfs, along with their ain heritage and history, languages and culture, lands and seas, and reclaiming oor ain soveranety.
I thought i saw mccormick leaving edinburgh in a campervan
Alf Baird @5:29pm
Aye, Alf. It’ll be a grand day in an independent Scotland when we can teach Scots weans their true history and dispel the lies o’ oor coloniser.
Interestingly, in my wanderings through what research has been done on the ancient Picts, the Romans, too, twisted what they knew of them.
The Picts weren’t quite the savages the Romans would have us all believe – sair losers sae thae wir thon Romans.
This extract :
from Dictionary of Celtic mythology by Peter Berresford Ellis
The Greeks Aristotle, Sotion, and Clement acknowledged that much of early Greek philosophy was influenced by them.
The reality of Scots history is far removed from whit wiv aw been telt. And a great history it is too.
Seems like a remarkable coincidence that with Branchform charges coming for Murrell and the Misfeasance action due to start for Sturgeon, that this should be the precise moment to change the First Minister.
Humza (inexplicably violently) withdrew from the BHA and was surgically replaced by the person who put Murrell in place.
With the COPFS reporting to the Lord Advocate and the Lord Advocate serving at the First Minister’s pleasure, who better to fight a defensive battle than Swinney?
Was Humza too hapless to be relied on to play an interference role?
The SNP’s destruction is of no importance to them.
Genocide John MOAN daein his usual moans and groans about the excessive Scots taxes, a typical tory voter who doesn’t want to pay his fair share,I have never complained about paying taxes,if you EARN good money it is your social responsibility to contribute, but I bet genocide John never fails to collect what he thinks is owed to him
I’m surprised genocide John doesn’t move to engerland what with their massively lower taxes and his tory party israhely buddies promising even lower ones,it is amazing when people like genocide John and his engerlish counterparts moan continuously about the state of services like the NHS they cannot accept that these services HAVE to be paid for, and DUH the way they are paid for is through TAXES
BUT genocide John MOAN doesn’t give a fuck about anyone else and it appears neither does the broader engerlish electorate because they keep voting in the greed driven fuck everyone else tories who will give them pennies off their taxes while they benefit to the tune of thousands, and because tax revenue is down MORE services will be cut, but that suits the greed driven tories because those tax cuts let them pay for those services privately and they get to the front of the queue, but the likes of genocide John MOAN who likes to think of himself as astute doesn’t get thousands back and he is too miserable to pay privately so he still waits in the queue, but never mind he saved pennies on his taxes. Dildo
You’re wasting your time on this thread, Twathater.
You would be far better employed on the new thread. Get on there and boast about how much extra taxes you want to pay so that the Scottish NHS and other Scottish government-funded gravy trains can throw puberty blockers at Scottish kids.
And your dildo fetish will “fit right in”. Mind you don’t lose it.
@ Genocide John 7.23pm I think you will find your tory lot have been mixed up in more deviance and perversions than all the other parties put together, but try your usual deflection Johnny boy
Never mind the tories have promised MORE tax cuts for engerland, if you hurry and sell your hoose and move to engerland you will save yourself lots of pennies,but an aging auld git like you with related health problems will have to pay through your beak for prescriptions, eye tests and dental health