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Off-topic

Posted on January 02, 1968 by

For off-topic chat. Duh.

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37687 to “Off-topic”

  1. Cubby says:

    Clapper 57 I also think your comments are wasted here. They should be on MT. good stuff. You should try not to take any criticisms of your comments to heart.

    With regards to Swinson I bet many people in England probably listening her don’t even think she is Scottish.

  2. Clapper57 says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood @ 12.58pm

    Hi Ian, yes it would be nice to post on MT…but just have a look at the comment after your last comment on MT just now..( that is after your comment re Dave apologising)..why should I , or others for that matter, have to put up with that ….healthy debate..yes..abuse and accusations…nope….it sickens me and ruins what should be a lively and welcoming site for all.

    I know I am naughty for posting my comments on OT…will try and limit them…not that I think that was what you meant in your comment to me….see what I mean you get so paranoiac on here thinking people will misunderstand your comment because there is so much negativity and misrepresenting of your opinion on MT….it’s become , for some, a ‘my way or the highway’ kind of attitude…and a certain person telling you to …you know what “OFF” yesterday was shocking.

    Have a lovely day

    xxx

  3. Clapper57 says:

    @ Cubby @ 1.18pm

    Cubby, I hate all of the negativity and think, IMHO , that calling people out because they do not support the SNP is wrong.

    I am an SNP member BUT I am entitled to challenge them when I see that some of them are IMHO are being way too focused on Brexit and the UK while seemingly taking their eye of the Indy ball…I may be wrong…you and others may be right….but I will never accuse others who support Independence as being anything other than independence supporters.

    Remember we do not know each other , we do not know what kind of lives we lead outside this bubble we post on….please please be a better person, one that I am sure you are and focus on helping us to win Independence because we are all human and need to act as such….let’s not alienate people irrespective of who they vote for.

    ps. Guess you deserve to slight me for my last comment to Ian B as yes it was targeting YOUR last comment on MT….this is an never ending cycle of he said she said…let’s us break it now.

  4. Cubby says:

    Clapper 57 I’m fairly confident that my family and friends think I am a pretty decent person already but everyone can always improve. I am also pretty confident you are a decent person as well.

    I certainly do not go around accusing loads of posters as being anti independence/ phoney supporters ( something some posters for their own reasons have tried to pin on me). I may think all the anti SNP/ Sturgeon/ Scotgov comments all the time serve no useful purpose at this point in time. As I have stated many times I have no affiliation for any political party I just don’t think it serves a lot of purpose to criticise the Scotgov at this critical time. I may be proved wrong that the mandate is not used but I am willing to give the Scotgov the benefit of doubt at present. If they are not planning to do something then they are putting up a pretty good smokescreen. Apart from that why would a political party that exists for independence do nothing. Logically I am sure you will agree that I hope I am right as it will mean an opportunity to gain our independence.

    No problem with your comment about my post. That was your opinion. Similarly, I have looked at my post again and don’t see anything wrong with it.

    We should never forget that Britnats cause great damage to people in Scotland and I will never respect phoney independence supporters on Wings. I cannot help it if some people who are genuine independence supporters think I am referring to them when I say that – I’m not.

    With regards to personal abuse I try to give people the opportunity to apologise if it’s directed to me from a genuine independence supporter but if not then I’m afraid I do hold grudges. We all have our personal failings. My experience is that some posters cannot accept losing an argument or being proved wrong and resort to personal insults. I fully accept it can sound a bit like a child saying he started it. But it is what it is.

    Similarly if an independence supporter posts unacceptable comments like racism I make no apology for calling them out. They of course do not like it and resort to personal insults.

    I also think we should also just cut each other a bit of slack. Ok Peffers said F off and it was not his normal response but perhaps he is also feeling a bit bullied as well. I am sure he is a decent person as well.

    Anyway going back to my initial point your posts up thread are wasted on here – again just my opinion.

  5. Clapper57 says:

    Hi Cubby ,I typed a response to you on MT under ‘The Contaminant’ thread.

    Cheers

    xxx

  6. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    This is a post I did on my Facebook page today. It works here with a small alteration.

    “The last and biggest pro-independence march and rally of the year takes place in Edinburgh next Saturday, 5th October.

    March starts at Holyrood Park at 1pm, progresses up the Royal Mile to George IV Bridge, then down to The Meadows. I understand around 300 Yes Bikers will travel the route ahead of the pipes and drums and marchers.

    My plan was that my son and I would bus down to Edinburgh, visit a bra’ wee cafe we discovered last year for nosebags, then walk up to George IV Bridge to join the march. A pint or two after the rally then bus back to Dundee, leaving Edinburgh at 20.20, arriving back in Dundee at 21.55.

    That was the plan so I booked the bus tickets last week, only to find out, subsequently, that Chris and his Mum are leaving for a holiday in Greece on 2nd October so he won’t be here for the march/rally.

    Therefore, I have a spare return ticket, to and from Edinburgh next Saturday.

    Details:
    Leave Dundee, Seagate Bus Station at 09.20. Change at Broxden approx 09.55.
    Arrive Edinburgh Bus Station at 11.20.

    Return:
    Leave Edinburgh Bus Station at 20.20.
    Arrive Dundee, Seagate Bus Station at 21.55.

    Cost: £18 for the return ticket.

    If you want it, email me at:-

    bumfluffbrian [at] doonthetoon [dot] plus [dot] com
    (Remove bumfluff for the correct email addy.)

    First come, first serve.

  7. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @BDTT –

    Do you happen to know where I could get details of any buses going from Glasgow?

    Sorry to be such a lazy arse but things have been a bit frantic here and I honestly didnlt realise the Edinburgh march was so close. I don;t want to drive as last time we went to the park & ride at Hermiston and it was a total fuckin nightmare getting back, there were no buses, and that was relatively early.

  8. a few examples of FoI questions around imports and exports

    EG
    Sent: 18 April 2017 20:50
    To: UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs)
    Subject: Re: Freedom of information request

    Dear N,

    I am still trying to pursue my FoI request as to how production of oil , whiskey, gas and electricity are showing in the regional export and import balances and have been trying to use the statistics base you sent me

    I am struggling to find a table with the Import Export figures for the 4 home countries in your statistics going back ten years.

    I found this one for Scotland going back to 2012 https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/RTS%20Releases/RTS_Q4_2015.xls

    While I understand that Oil exports are not credited to Scotland, there does seem to be a substantial Mineral Fuel figure amounting to more than 20% of Scotlands import figures from year to year.

    How is it possible that oil exports are NOT credited to Scotland, but Scotlands consumption of oil is counted as an import?

    Cllr Cadogan Enright

  9. UK stats office explaining why tankers of oil are not credited as exports from Scotland

    (dozens of questions – they always answer te question you did not ask – but persistence and re-phrasing gets them in the end
    Fri 21/04/2017 13:12
    UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs) uktradeinfo [at] hmrc [dot] gsi [dot] gov [dot] uk
    RE: Freedom of information request
    Cadogan Enright

    Dear Cadogan,

    The following link will take you to the starting point for building your own data table. This is where you can input your own criteria to create the equivalent dataset of the graph that you previously referred to.

    https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/BuildYourOwnTables/Pages/Table.aspx?savedview=abd926c4-4faa-4868-8e22-56abc7aceaaa

    The next link will take you to the page where the RTS archive of releases and commentaries are found. Using the drop down function will enable you to look back at the releases from 2008.

    https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/RTSArchive.aspx

    Exports of Crude oil (CN8 27090090) are made up of two aspects:
    • That exported by oil tanker is allocated to the region based on the proportion of the employees of the exporting business located within that region.
    • That exported directly from an off-shore oil rig is allocated to the region which is nearest to that rig as we receive no information on who the exporting business is.

    Import figures are not based on the location of where it is consumed but is allocated to the region based on the proportion of the employees of the importing business located within that region.

    Kind regards

  10. From: Cadogan Enright
    Sent: 27 March 2017 14:40

    To: UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs)
    Subject: Freedom of information request

    Dear N,

    I am referring to the specific data set in the link I sent you below showing the import/export balance for the 4 Nations of England, Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland. – https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx

    For 2016, It shows Wales in balance, NI and England in deficit and Scotland in Surplus on the left hand side of this link from your website;

    It is not unreasonable of me to expect that you would be aware of which Nation’s heading would show Petroleum and Whisky exports given the small number of companies involved and that these products are overwhelmingly produced in one of the 4 Nations.

    I am trying to determine if exports as depicted in your statistics are shown by the port of export, or the home country of production.

    It goes to the heart of the veracity of your statistics.

    Given the size of Petroleum and Whiskey production in pounds sterling, the statistics for Scotland look improbably low. I have similar concerns here in Northern Ireland, but an answer on Petroleum and Whiskey would satisfy my question

    I refer you to government statistics on oil which show £19.6 billion exports of oil alone http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/oilgas .

    And value of Whiskey trade http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-38737183

    These two figures alone equal the figures shown by you of £25.5 billion for all Scotland’s exports during 2016 as shown in your figures.

    When you look at the Scottish Government’s total of international exports (excluding oil and gas) they show £28.7 billion in 2015 v’s your £25.7 Billion total for 2015

    Can you explain the difference – this is the essence of of FoI request

    Cllr Cadogan Enright
    07490462329

    ———- Forwarded message ———-
    From:
    Date: Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:38 AM
    Subject: RE: Freedom of information request
    To: cadogan enright

    Dear Cadogan,

    The Regional Trade Statistics figures are based on the location and employment of the businesses exporting and importing the goods. They are not based on the location of the manufacturer / consumer nor the location of where the goods enter or leave the UK. It cannot therefore be assumed that all Scotch Whiskey is exported from Scotland. There is some additional re-allocation of region done for Crude oil exported directly from offshore oil rigs but not that exported via tanker which is allocated by location / employment of the exporting business.

    The full methodology can be found here: https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/AboutOverseastradeStatistics/Documents/RTS_Methodology_Revision_2016.pdf

    Regards

  11. more random selections from my file

    From: Cadogan Enright
    Sent: 30 June 2017 16:14
    To: UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs)
    Subject: FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST No.2 – attention N
    Dear N

    I asked you a specific question on 18th April (see below) to which I have not received a reply.

    In our correspondence to date, we have established that Oil exports or other hydrocarbon or energy exports are not credited to Scotland in the Regional Trade Statistics.

    However in going though the database you sent me, it does appear that you allocate a substantial Mineral Fuel figure amounting to more than 20% of Scotlands import figures from year to year to Scottish imports.

    While I accept that mineral oil exports are NOT credited to Scotland, is it true that Scotland’s consumption of oil is counted as an import?

    If this is a correct understanding of the figures, why is this so?

    IE Exports not counted to Scotland’s Regional Trade Statistics, but consumption of Mineral Oils counted as an import.

    The relevant link is shown below.

    With thanks

    Cadogan Enright

  12. and it gets more and more detailed . . . .

    From: Cadogan Enright
    Sent: 03 April 2017 21:29
    To: UKTradeinfo, Team (Customs)
    Subject: 1449 Freedom of information request

    Dear N

    I have 5 follow up sets of questions labelled A, B C, D and E;

    A. Questions on section 3.9 in the document attached below;
    The section on ‘gas and electricity’ is easy to follow but, oil is VERY vague – can you clarify the brief summary in the document you sent me in section 3.9

    “Where oil is processed on rigs in the North Sea and dispatched directly to other countries, the oil does not enter the UK and therefore does not obtain any regional coding. The RTS methodology categorises this oil trade based on the location of the oil rig. This allocation also uses information from the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999. Oil imported or exported into or out of the UK via ship will be associated with a business. Trade is allocated to the region where the business is registered subject to the main allocation method outlined above.”

    1. what does this mean? “The RTS methodology categorises this oil trade based on the location of the oil rig. This allocation also uses information from the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999. Oil imported or exported into or out of the UK via ship will be associated with a business. Trade is allocated to the region where the business is registered subject to the main allocation method outlined above.” ?
    It appears to imply that either the Scottish Adjacent Water Boundaries Order OR that oil exported by ship and associated with a business will result in Oil exports not being credited to Scotland’s regional trade balance. Is this correct?

    2. Is it fair to say that businesses for this purpose are often not registered in Scotland?

    3. Are any of them registered in Scotland?

    B. Question on Section 3.10

    “Treatment of unusual trade There are a number of categories of trade that present difficulties in terms of assigning regions to the business or activities responsible for the trade flows. These are described below. These are recorded in the ‘Unallocated’ category, split ‘Unallocated – Known’ where full details are known but it is not realistic to allocate it to a region; and ‘Unallocated – Unknown’ where not enough detail is known to allocate to a region.”

    What are the main types of catagories of trade that fall into the ‘Unallocated’ Catagory. Are any of these related to Whiskey, Gas, Electricty or Oil?

    C. Questions on section 3.11
    “Overseas businesses registered in the UK There are a number of businesses who act within the UK on behalf of foreign companies overseas, operating as ‘ghost presences’. For ease of administration, the majority of these businesses are registered for VAT purposes with Customs House, Aberdeen. The RTS methodology categorises this ghost trade as ‘Unallocatedknown’, as allocating it all to Scotland would falsely inflate the Scottish share and we do not have any information to enable us to re-allocate these data to other regions.”

    This clearly indicates that this huge volume of petroleum related exports are NOT credited to Scot;and, but to the rest of the UK – am I correct?

    What are the main types of catagories of trade that fall into the ‘Unallocatedknown’ Catagory. Are any of these related to Whiskey, Gas, Electricty or Oil?

    D. Questions on Whiskey.
    Diageo is the world’s biggest whisky producer with malt distilleries open to the public at Blair Athol, Glenkinchie, Dalwhinnie, Royal Lochnagar, Cragganmore, Cardhu, Glen Ord, Clynelish, Talisker, Oban, Caol Ila and Lagavulin.

    It is registered and has it headquarters in London.

    Sections 3.2, 3.3 and 3.4 seem to indicate that Whiskey production will not be allocated to Scotland’s account – but either all to the South East Region, or in proportion to Diageo’s employment around the UK, on on account of the address of its VAT registration – London.

    Can you clarify this with specific reference to Diageo as an example?

    E. Section 3.8 on Gas and Electricity.

    This section seems to be clear. The region from whence the gas or electricity flows abroad is credited with the export. Is this a correct interpretation?

    Does that mean that Scotland as a net producer of gas and electricity is not credited with the flow of these commodities that leaves its region, but this surplus is credited to other Regions as their ‘exports’?

    Thanks for your attention in this matter.

    Councillor Cadogan Enright

  13. dadsarmy says:

    @Cadogan Enright
    It beats me. I tried to check out where whisky is bottled, if there’s any statistics for that. A cask of whisky is worth so much, but the bottles from it are clearly worth more than a cask. And a lot of bottling is done outside Scotland, in England, no idea how much. So the bottles are greatly value added over the cask value. To be called Scotch it has to be matured in the cask in Scotland, but not as I understand it, bottled. Unless perhaps a single malt!

    The other thing or the same thing (both) is whisky being moved in bond, where the UK excise duty isn’t paid until it’s taken out of bond. Clearly if that duty was devolved it would be due to Scotland not England. But which country IS it attributed to?

    The SWA website wasn’t much help, what a surprise.

    I spent days but gave up in the end, life’s too short!

  14. dadsarmy says:

    Don’t rely on anything I said there being right by the way, it was a couple of years ago and a lot happened since then, plus I lost interest as I wasn’t getting anywhere.

  15. @Dadsarmy

    Whiskey mostly credited to London on account of VAT registration addresses

    not Scotland where it is produced

  16. dadsarmy says:

    @cadogan Enright
    Not according to the GERS FAQ though:

    Q: Do you use company headquarters to assign corporation tax or taxes like VAT?

    A: Corporation tax on trading profits is estimated on a company-by-company basis, depending on the economic activity each company has in Scotland, not location of company headquarters. VAT is a consumption tax, and is therefore estimated based on purchases that are made in Scotland, rather than the location of a company’s head office.

    Q: How do taxes from the whisky industry feature in the GERS estimates?

    A: Like any industry, the whisky industry’s activity in Scotland generates tax revenue through a range of sources, such as corporation tax on profits, income tax and national insurance contributions on staff earnings, and non-domestic rates payments on business premises. These are all captured in the estimates of Scottish public sector receipts reported in GERS.

    In addition, whisky consumed in the UK is subject to VAT and alcohol duty. This is assigned to Scotland on the basis of how much is consumed in Scotland. Whisky which is exported does not generate UK VAT or alcohol duty. There is no export duty in the UK.

    https://www2.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS/FAQs

    Anyways, I’m not going there again, it’s a black hole!

  17. dadsarmy says:

    Sorry by the way, I suddenly realise you’re talking UKTradeinfo, I’m talking GERS 🙂

    And the ScotGov figures for trade are different from the UKTradeinfo ones if I remember rightly.

    Anyway, I’m getting an early night for a change.

  18. Dorothy Devine says:

    Cadogan Enright , you have an intrusive ‘e’ in that whisky.

    I had no idea who the eejit was who thought Edinburgh castle should be returned to ‘Britain” – I now discover he is West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine and I have great difficulty understanding how anyone could vote for a pillock so anti his country’s heritage , a cultural cretin indeed.

    I actually thought I had reached saturation level in disgust and dislike but hey ho , someone always pops up with greater idiotic disparaging comment obviously thinking to please their masters by running their own country down – and I think of very rude responses.

  19. @ Dorothy Devine – I am Irish

    but I think we can both agree that the correct original spelling was “Uisce” or Uisce beatha

  20. Dorothy Devine says:

    Happily Cadogan!

  21. dadsarmy says:

    Oh well, since the MT is OT, the OT becomes the MT!

    On 16 October, the supreme court will hold an open day to celebrate its 10th anniversary. Anyone will be able to explore the architectural splendour of its courtrooms and its colourful, swirling carpets – incorporating a Welsh leek, English rose, Scottish thistle and Northern Irish flax – designed by the artist Sir Peter Blake.” [UKSC]

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/sep/26/after-10-years-the-supreme-court-is-confident-in-its-role

    Look at Hale by the way, she’s definitely on loan from a Harry Potter movie, probably as head of Gryffindor or something like that.

  22. dadsarmy says:

    And a wee take on Aidan O’Neill,

    https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1174309797879042048

    He’s due tomorrow to as the CoS case is about: “A judge has fixed a date for proceedings in which Scotland’s highest civil court will consider whether it can imprison the Prime Minister if he pursues a ‘no-deal’ Brexit.

    Lord Pentland arranged a hearing to take place this Friday at the Court of Session for a legal action brought by SNP MP Joanna Cherry, English lawyer Jo Maugham QC and businessman Dale Vince.

    imprison the Prime Minister

    This case is alongside the nobile officium which is next week. So basically BoJo could be jailed, plus the clerk of court in the CoS sign the request for an extension for him. Presumably Police Scotland would send a squad down to Downing Street to arrest him.

    Wonder what the EU would make of the UK’s PM being in the Bar’L.

    Better than any joke 🙂

  23. dadsarmy says:

    I think by the way that the English courts also have the power to imprison BoJo if he refuses, as that would be contemept of court if the court had ruled he must write the letter according to the “surrender act”. But it#s only the CoS has the nobile officium, or “Nob Off” power as it’s being called 🙂

    #NobOff

  24. dadsarmy says:

    Sorry, the quote from the “imprison” post is from the Scotsmand, not Adam Wagner whose comments are interesting, if perhaps a little insitutionally ignorant of Scotland. As in this tweet: “Also, Pannick has done the heavy lifting already so he can go a bit off grid” which was both true AND untrue; different angles.

    Ha, geddit? “Angles” 🙂

    I slay myself.

  25. Dan says:

    A younger and fresh couponed John Lydon with PIL – Rise

    Although slightly different wording in the song “May the road rise up to meet you” seems appropriate for all the AUOB marchers this weekend.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq7JSic1DtM

    Peter Gabriel – Games Without Frontiers.

    Lyrics now seem to fairly accurately describe numerous ongoing political antics within UK.
    Someone really needs to produce the meme “If Carlsberg did political shitfests…”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZmlUV8muY

  26. Clapper57 says:

    Can some kind soul put a link for Gong’s “Magdalene”…please.

    Thanks in anticipation…tonight or any night after.

    xxxx

  27. Shinty says:

    Trying to find out about the indy march tomorrow in Glasgow?
    Anyone direct me to detail – google has nothing but past marches – cheers.

  28. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Ian B.

    Apologies – I missed your comment about buses until a minute ago.
    BTW: Another member of Dundee’s Team Yes Bus has claimed my spare ticket.

    The three sites I refer to are:-

    https://www.travelinescotland.com/

    https://www.citylink.co.uk/

    https://uk.megabus.com/

    I did a check on Citylink’s site (Citylink and Megabus are intertwined) at the back of lunchtime, re buses from Dundee tomorrow for another Dundonian. Here’s what I found…

    “The 9.20, 10.05, 10.15 and 11.15 Citylink/Megabus buses are full. Another Citylink at 11.15 still has seats but doesn’t get into Edinburgh until 13.10. (change at Broxden.) If you’ve not already booked, you’ll have to look at the 3 buses at 8.45 or the 7.55.”

    Hope this helps…

    Citylink fares stay the same; the nearer you get to journey date, Megabus fares rise.

    Here are some examples from Citylink, Glasgow to Edinburgh, tomorrow morning.

    https://sales.citylink.co.uk/Action/ViewJourneyPlannerResults?outStartIndex=23&rtnStartIndex=0

    You can click on the left arrows at top right for earlier journeys.

  29. Ghillie says:

    Looking forward to seeing you all tomorrow 🙂

    Safe journeys x

  30. Ghillie says:

    Hey there Thepnr and Mrs Thepnr, Cactus, Cameron B and all old friends and new 🙂

    I’ll be looking out for you 🙂

  31. Dan says:

    My sister sent me a pic of a tray of lovely looking Saltire cakes she’s made for the morra.
    Had to check she hadn’t coloured the icing blue by grinding up a load of viagra tablets!
    Admittedly that might help keep folk’s flagpoles erect, but
    I reminded her it’s not an All Under One Boner event…

  32. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Where’s Cactus gone?

    FFS man, come back eh?

    😉

    Good luck to all heading for the march. I can’t make it. Totally gutted.

    Can’t complain though. Have been to most of the bigger marches and rallies in recent years and enjoyed them all thoroughly, even the ones that weren’t so well attended. Feels like tomorrow could be a landmark although, like others, I’m a bit wary of the numbers being bandied about.

    Here’s hoping the weather stays fair. Looking forward to getting first-hand accounts from some of you at Dows on the 25th.

    🙂 🙂 🙂

  33. dadsarmy says:

    @Shinty
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17948563.everything-need-know-auobs-edinburgh-march/

    Won’t be there myself in body, left it too late to book buses as I couldn’t guarantee being free, but will be there in spirit. Anyways, I did last year and Glasgow this year.

  34. Clapper57 says:

    @ David @ 2.19am

    Thank you David….

  35. Shinty says:

    @ dadsarmy – thanks for that – sorry but stopped buying the national a year ago – also thought the march was Glasgow. No I won’t be going to Auld Reekie. I’m off to S.A. shortly and thought it would be good to attend at least one march before I left.
    Don’t worry if there is a vote – I’ll be back in a heartbeat!

  36. Macart says:

    Wishing all the best for folks going to Embra today.

    Have a great time folks. 🙂

  37. Ghillie says:

    Thanks Macart 🙂

    This is feeling like a practice for the biggest celebration Scotland has ever seen 🙂 🙂 🙂

    Clapper57, hope we might meet!

    I expect alot of folk will gather in the Meadows that didn’t manage to join in the march.

    So where ever you are, join us there 🙂

    Oor Nicola says ‘Have a great day!’

    ‘And be in no doubt – Independence is coming’ 🙂 🙂 🙂

  38. Dan says:

    Garbage – Only Happy When It Rains (Unionist Tears)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpBFOJ3R0M4

  39. hackalumpoff says:

    Driving home today from the march. I heard these two great “protest songs” on the Radio.

    1-Martyn Joseph – Nye : A Song for the NHS
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IBmmXn1QwM

    2-Martyn Joseph – Here Come The Young
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRS3vSxkpGw

    @Welsh Sion – you kept this guy to yourselves !!

  40. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi peeps.

    One of my highlights of the day was after we had disposed of the WOS stall, I wandered towards the stage and they were just winding up so I headed towards George IV Bridge to go back up to the Royal Mile for a pint.
    As I left the Meadows, just before the George IV Bridge, something caught my peripheral vision, on the left. I looked round and saw a squirrel (a grey, unfortunately) foraging in the fallen leaves. I stopped and watched it, whilst trying to pull my phone out of my pocket to video it. I didn’t quite manage.
    This squirrel was gallus. It wandered about “patting” the leaves until it eventually climbed the log (see the link) and looked straight at me, as if it was daring me to move.
    After a few seconds, it went back to patting the leaves in front of the log, before disappearing into the undergrowth.
    The log it clambered up is the one you can see at this link, leaning up towards the viewpoint.
    https://goo.gl/maps/w5ipXwd5nF5qwqG99
    The one with the hole in the end. It just sat there, looking at me, like it was daring me to do something. At one with nature…

  41. dadsarmy says:

    Sussing you out BDTT to see if you were a threat, and after its nuts. If Wings had a few more squirrels there’d be less ferrets 🙂

  42. Dan says:

    Should have nabbed it for the pot Brian.
    Those pesky invaders may look cute but they ain’t no friend to oor red uns.
    I can personally vouch that one grey squirrel easily provides enough meat for a tasty stirfry. It tastes like a chicken / pork combination.
    Come “Brexit” foraging for decent nosh such as a grey squirrel, rather than buying shitey hormone fed beef and chicken will be all the rage.

  43. dadsarmy says:

    Haven’t played this for some time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXW-sL5gzHQ

    YES should maybe make a banner of it to show NO voters. Or T-shirts.

  44. CameronB Brodie says:

    Right peeps, you’ve had a good long break from me. Well I’m back.

    Is Westminster still a racist patriarchy? Is the Prime Minister still acting as if the Brexit referendum was legit and Scots as having no constitutional or human rights? Is the Scottish goverment still being advised by the legal team of Doofus and Dolt, who appear determined to undermine the coherance of legal doctrin and the effectivenes of international juresprudence?

    Human rights and natural law

    “No declaration of human rights will ever be exhaustive and final. It will ever go hand-in-hand with the state of moral consciousness and civilization at a given moment in history,” says the French philosopher Jacques Maritain (1882-1973) in his text “On the Philosophy of Human Rights”, which he sent from Rome in June 1947, in response to UNESCO’s survey about the philosophical foundations of human rights. “And it is for this reason,” he adds, “that after the considerable conquest constituted at the end of the eighteenth century by the first written formulations, there is now a major interest in renewing these declarations from century to century.” – Jacques Maritain

    https://en.unesco.org/courier/2018-4/human-rights-and-natural-law

    Taking Sex Discrimination Seriously
    https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6375&context=fss_papers

    Gender Semiotics and the 21st Century Feminist Utopia: Implications on National Security and Socio-cultural Development
    http://www.academypublication.com/issues/past/tpls/vol04/01/03.pdf

  45. Clapper57 says:

    @ CameronB Brodie

    Welcome back…..I was really worried about you….nice to see you posting again.

    Have a lovely evening

  46. Clapper57 says:

    @ Brian Doonthetoon on 7 Oct @ 11.56pm

    Hi Brian, after reading your squirrel story it reminded me of mine.

    I used to love squirrels and my hubby and I would feed them in Princes st gardens as thought they were so cute….and then….

    One morning a long long time ago…before I took early retirement ….I parked my car , as per usual, in Castle street carpark to go to work….this car park is next to one of the side entrances to princes street gardens…and as I was walking from car park to get to work in Lothian Road….an incident occurred…involving a ……squirrel !

    As I was walking all of a sudden a squirrel jumps out, from the gardens, and stops dead a few yards in front of me and stared at me…as I tentatively moved it moved too… like a Ninja and it mirrored my movements….for some reason ( i.e. Fear) I was a bit freaked out and it was….. honest to God………… blocking my path….

    Fortunately for me another girl came up behind me and she too was a tad apprehensive about said squirrel…it just seemed so CALCULATED….like it was ready to pounce…it was quite funny really because the both of us were too scared to move…and when we did …then it moved too…very ninja like and menacing….as if to say “Where the hell do you think you two are going”

    I love animals but this Ninja squirrel has totally destroyed any affection I have for squirrels ….this was the devil’s squirrel for sure….

    Eventually we both made a run for it and the wee swine chased us…which prompted us both to scream ….to any passer by who did not notice the squirrel they must have wondered what the hell was going on….and who the Hell we were trying to get away from…don’t know about her but if anybody had asked me I would have been way to embarrassed to have admitted that our behaviour was due to a ……………..squirrel…..but is was a Ninja one…so hey….justified panic obvs.

    Beware Ninja Squirrels……

  47. CameronB Brodie says:

    Clapper57
    Thanks for your thoughts and kind words.

    =====

    I’m not really back, just pulling folks legs. For shits and giggles. I’ll probably not post again for a while. Saying that, I hope I’ve managed to draw folks attention to the spamheededness of believing that it is possible to self-ditermine one’s sex. As it doesn’t take a lot of philisophy to link gender and nationality, gender politics are an ideal gateway to understanding Scotlland’s predicament. The full-English Brexit treats Scotland in the same way the woke-wing of the SNP want to treat women. The First Minister might appreciate this, if she was open to a gender-critical view that is grounded in liberal, practicle, science. Not radical philosophy and ideological idealism.

    The SNP needs to divorce itself from woke radicalism and support for self-ID of sex, if it hopes to deliver self-government for Scotland.

    Hegel, Human Rights, and Political Membership

    Abstract

    This paper examines Hegel’s view of the relationship of human rights and political membership. Attention is accorded the concept of a right to have rights, one famously thematized by Hannah Arendt but articulated already earlier by Hegel. The discussion has five parts. Part One considers how for Hegel a notion of political membership is entailed by the concept of right itself. Part Two examines the place occupied by modern civil society in a realised account of human rights. Part Three considers the challenges posed to realised right by the phenomenon of modern poverty and the experience of ‘rightlessness’ it occasions. Part Four details how Hegel’s conception of the corporation addresses the phenomenon of rightlessness, taking into account his uniquely reflexive understanding of a right to have rights and its contribution to the project of the Philosophy of Right. The concluding section briefly compares Hegel’s conception of membership rights to Arendt’s.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hegel-bulletin/article/hegel-human-rights-and-political-membership1/6ED29436EACF9259E8B500E118E8DD88/core-reader

    Shawn Lee’s Ping Pong Orchestra – Mood Bender
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q42Y26d5tzg

  48. Dan says:

    Hi Cameron. Hope all is well with you.
    Did you make it to any of the recent marches?

    You’ve arrived back just as the “old” Self ID shiz rears its head again.
    We were there man, in the One Week in the War on Women thread a while back as two blokes voicing our concerns over the matter.
    I’ve been busy this week with physical work restroring cars and today pouring concrete, so pretty tired and cannae really be arsed going over it all again as I’m somewhat jaded at seeing that bunch of fannies still pushing this bollox.

    Tears for Fears – Mad World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1ZvPSpLxCg

  49. dadsarmy says:

    @BDTT
    Does this remind you of anything?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak40fT6L_Ks

    I used to play it on piano, adding wrinkles, just for the fun of it.

    Couldn’t make it to Edinburgh, anyway it was muddy.

  50. Clapper57 says:

    @ CameronB Brodie

    Your welcome.

    I do read your stuff….but unfortunately in my family my brother got the brains and I got the brawn…so sometimes it takes a few readings to understand …some of it…I don’t know about Shawn Lee’s ‘Mood Bender’ but there is certainly a lot of changing moods going on a bender with all of this brexshit shenanigans and when’s Indy 2 going to happen…..is there not !!!….Lol

  51. Liz g says:

    Oh Smallaxe…. While I think of you and Mrs Smallaxe often..
    So missing yer Wisdom tonight xxx

  52. Clapper57 says:

    @ Liz G

    Hi Liz G, how you doin ?

    I am back on MT…you probably noticed…I just thought what the Hell…caution to the wind…

    You are certainly presenting a good argument on MT…gaun yirsel lassie…like another poster said..wish there was a ‘like’ option …..I would add it onto your comments fir sure…

    Have a good evening

  53. Liz g says:

    Clapper 57 @ 6.43
    Thanks for sayin Flapper xx
    And I’m glad you took the plunge back on to the main thread you’ve a thing or two to be sayin yerself my friend 🙂

  54. Dan says:

    In oot, in oot, shake it all aboot.
    Let’s do the EU hokey cokey.

    Please jive carefully…

    JXL & Elvis – A Little Less Conversation
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx1_6F-nCaw

    Stakka Bo – Down The Drain
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g8dWcI8B6A

  55. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I don’t think I’ve linked to this track before in ‘off-topic’.

    The background… Back in the early 70s, Barclay James Harvest were regarded by the music press pundits as the “poor man’s Moody Blues”. They eventually took control of that sobriquet and composed this tune, as a tribute/homage/two fingers.

    It stands up on its own as a rather good track. I like it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ0zCnSEz_A

  56. David says:

    The recent Panelbase poll for the Sunday Times has some very interesting findings. Here’s the link to a pdf file of some of its data tables:
    http://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/Sunday-Times-Tables-for-publication-111019.pdf

    It is basically 2 full polls in one, with 1,003 people polled in Scotland and 1,010 in Eng & Wales.

    Q6 for Scots voters is “Should Scotland be an independent country?” Excluding ‘Don’t Knows’ the result is the narrowest possible win for NO with 413 against 412 for YES. There is now just a ONE-vote lead for NO!
    That’s YES on 49.94% and NO on 50.06%.

    Q6b piles the pressure on Westminster – if there is a “No-deal Brexit” then YES beats NO by 54% to 46%. 🙂

    Q10 is “Would Scotland be better off economically as an independent country within the EU, or as part of the UK outside the EU?”
    This was asked in Scotland and also in Eng & Wales, and the differences are very significant.
    In Scotland, with “Don’t Knows” removed, 55.9% say we’d be better off being Independent and in the EU. Only 44.1% said we’d be better off as part of Brexit Britain. That’s a 12-point lead for indy.

    In Eng & Wales, 69.3% said Scotland would be better off as Independent and in the EU. Only 30.7% said we’d be better off economically as part of Brexit Britain.

    Think about that. People in England and Wales are much more positive about the financial benefits of independence for Scotland!
    It shows how much negative effect the “Scottish Cringe” has.

    Too wee, too poor? Aye right! The English and Welsh know the truth, even if some BritNat Scots don’t.

  57. David says:

    Hey Brian Doonthetoon, thanks for posting Barclay James Harvest.

    Here’s one of their early songs, “Mocking Bird”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGvyG3SOMQg

  58. Ghillie says:

    David, THAT is an interesting polling result!

    I wonder if the owner of Wings might like to discuss that?

    Thankyou for the music links folks 🙂

  59. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Cheers, David!

    8=)

  60. dadsarmy says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifr13Upytb4

    It’s funny when you look back at music and think about it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_(singer)

    You knew these things but who cared eh! It’s music.

  61. dadsarmy says:

    Remember when OT was mostly music? Those were the days! Anyways, don’t think I’ve ever seen Melanie played so here’s a whole album.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kxW0Oiop94

  62. Ian Brotherhood says:

    If you’re definitely coming to the gathering in Dows next Friday, can you please let us know here?

    Cheers!

    🙂

  63. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Albie Dair, with the product of my lions.

  64. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Make that “loins”. My lions went to a good home.

  65. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @BDTT –

    Apologies for being presumptuous but I already had you on the list!

    😉

  66. Tam the Bam. says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    Hi Ian

    Could you state the time for Wingers ‘meet-up’ @ Dows next Friday?

    Cheers.
    Tam

  67. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Hi Tam,

    Some of us will be there mid-afternoon but I imagine most will arrive between 5 and 7ish. Just whenever suits you, we’ll be in the downstairs bar until they open upstairs and that will depend how many of us arrive early.

    Hoots!

    😉

  68. Tam the Bam. says:

    Many thanks Ian.

  69. Gary says:

    I need to get this off my chest, and, looking at previous comments on here I can see I’m not the only one who’s noticed or been aggravated by it…it’s Jo Swinson’s accent. There, I’ve said it.

    It’s just AWFUL. I’m not being racist, sexist or anything else like that. I don’t care what colour you are, where you’re from, what religion you are or whatever. I don’t even case what accent you speak in either BUT, she does take the biscuit.

    I know that she’s from Scotland and, as someone who lived in England and still visits very often, I know that you need to avoid certain words and (not joking) speak more slowly, to be understood – especially in places like London where they won’t make an effort to listen. But you don’t need to put on a phony English accent, it might not be so bad if she could pull it off and actually SOUND English but it’s dreadful, someone should tell her. It almost worse than when Dick Van Dyke did that DREADFUL Cockney accent in Mary Poppins (if you’re not old enough – Google it or try YouTube)

    English people must be genuinely offended by it. It’s like when you’re on holiday somewhere and someone you don’t even know comes up and puts on a really bad version of a Scottish accent to mock you.

    Thanks for the space to get that off my chest, I almost can’t hear what she’s saying for the sound of the fake accent, it’s beginning to sound like fingernails on a blackboard to me. But she’s a LibDem anyway so she’s not very important, luckily we don’t have to hear it much…

  70. Michael McCabe says:

    Hi folks hope you don’t mind me jumping in here. The place has changed since my last visit. Anyway to the point. A good few people who used to frequent this place regularly are meeting up tomorrow for a blether and a few beverages from about 5 pm till closing time.so I was just wondering if any of you wanted to come along.

  71. Michael McCabe says:

    If you do fancy coming along it is taking place at Dows bar just outside Queen Street Station in Glasgow. these wee meet up are legendary the first one I went to I went by myself and since then I can honestly say I now have about 30 new friends. I know it is short notice but if you can make it you will be made most welcome. Hope to see some of you there.
    Cheers. ? ? ??????? ?

  72. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 22:48 (19.Oct)

    Alas I’m going to have to give y’all a miss later today, despite my previous good intentions. Caught a bug a couple of days ago whilst on my travels, managed to make it home OK, but am in no fit state to go anywhere else right now. Besides which, don’t want to pass this particular lurgi on to any of you.

    Which adds an extra layer of self-pity on top of the usual bleary pathos of such circumstances, ‘cos I was rather looking forward to another of these all-too-rare occasions. But have a wonderful time anyway despite my absence! =grin= (Or is that “because of”…? heh, heh =laugh= =splutter=)

    PS: While in Brussels of late I discovered to my pleasant surprise, nearby to Central Station, a watering-hole called “Wings Tavern”. Took a photie that I would have printed out for the (mild) amusement of all, but there we are. (Still, you can always make do instead with streetview on Google maps, just look at the east end of La Putterie.)

  73. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland –

    Hope you’re feeling a bit better now. Sounds quite nasty.

    You would’ve enjoyed last night. Not as busy as the first gig in Dows (was that really this year too? Seems ages ago…) but a few of the ‘auld’ faces and some newbies too.

    Jim Fae the Glen got footage of BDTT’s speech and Ronnie’s acceptance of a special plaque from Donna B. Hope this link works okay and that Jim et al don’t mind it being re-linked.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4rcvrmn7bpfsz0p/Wings_Dows_2019-10-25.mp4?dl=0

    A lot of positivity in the room. General feeling appears to be that we’re very nearly there and the surprise announcement of the Nicola/National-organised rally next week is viewed as highly significant.

    Also worth noting that Angus MacNeil (aye, the MP) took the time to pop in and say hello after Ronnie A spotted him emerging from Queen St station and gave him a shout. What a lovely guy, seemed very happy to show face despite being in a hurry.

    All in all, another successful ‘Wings’ social.

    😉

  74. Cactus says:

    Howde’s, ah wisnae planning on coming back on just yet but but but, hey needs must, great to be with ye Wingers at Dow’s, that was important, I was at the RIC conference at the Radisson earlier yesterday 2, good talk.

    Excellent stuff both above and below the line as ever… keep going.

    ps ah’ve lost my phone (or somebody stole it 2nite), if ye know me call me 07940 595 ***, cheers everybody 🙂

    One of two…

  75. Cactus says:

    Hey, I got me a new phone so now back in contact, have an excellent birthday Rev, I’ll be back in a bitty, cheers all.

  76. Dan says:

    Fair Scunnered with things so my pal and I took the bikes for a wee tour around north Perthshire today.
    Absolutely stunning scenery on such a bright clear day with the autumn colours on display.
    Made our way to Glenshee, then over to Pitlochry, and along Loch Tummel, down past Schiehallion, through Fortingall wi the Yew, cut across to Invervar*, round the back of Ben Lawers, down past the hydro scheme to Loch Tay, then Kenmore, Aberfledy, and o’er the hill to Amulree and down to Dunkeld then toodled off hame.
    Scotland’s too wee… A’wa and dinae talk pish!

    Big Country – In a Big Country (with a bit of Scotland’s scenery)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOgCjTXVnWk

    Big Country – Wonderland (I feel the winter too, coz winter is coming in more ways than one)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL378Cwz4zE

    * I reckon someone in Invervar has a pet panda as there seemed to be a lot of bamboo growing in the village for some reason!

  77. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Ian B.

    Downloaded your Dow’s link yesterday – but haven’t had the courage to watch it yet!

    Further info: Dow’s upstair is gonna be open on Saturday from 11am, to act us a hub for activists/stallholders at the George Square rally; tea,coffee/stimulating beverages and so on.

  78. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @BDTT –

    Have no fear!

    You did a splendid job, and so did abody else. Pity it wasn’t a bit busier but a great night all the same.

    😉

  79. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 21:07 (26.Oct),

    Thanks for the video Ian, which I did enjoy even if necessarily at one remove this time. Add my appreciation to Ronnie also, if from a relative latecomer to the party.

    This current outage is turning out to be a bit of a sluggard to shift, but I’m still very much looking forward to at least popping in before everything starts off on the Great Day this coming Saturday. Another milestone to rank with the vote in Holyrood back in the heady days of Spring 2017.

    Unmissable! (You lot too! =laugh=)

  80. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland –

    Ha!

    Always good to see you popping up away from the MT.

    Unfortunately, I won’t make it to Glasgow tomorrow (unless I slip my handlers early in the morning at the shift-change) so it’s one gig I won’t be able to tell the grandweans about.

    The only party I’m really bothered about is the first post-indy one when we can all get thegither. What a party that will be sah! Where, when, and for how long?

    The mind boggles, in a good way…

    🙂 🙂 🙂

  81. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Quinie Fae Angus.

    Here are the two tracks I mentioned in Waxy’s earlier this evening.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHjEvIFQ7zk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS31nhC1cl8

    (Greg Lake?)

  82. Quinie frae Angus says:

    Hey Brian Doon the Toon

    Thanks very much for posting the choons…..

    I do agree that the “Oh Yeah” track is absolutely DB’s “Jean Genie”! And the Shy Limbs one is quite like Procul Harum’s “Whiter Shade of Pale” – which incidentally was the No. 1 tune the week in which I was born, which is why my Dad (a former Morgan Academy pupil) has such a soft spot for it.

    Great to see you and Chris on Saturday.

  83. Macart says:

    Worth checking this out and very much worth spreading far and wide.

    https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/important-and-worrying/#postid-382

  84. dadsarmy says:

    Music! Guitar intro and blah:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APmOegNXJ8s

    The Gypsy

  85. Smallaxe says:

    For Hackalumpoff;
    Van Morrison – Gypsy In My Soul
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGteBevUiI

    For Nana;
    “A Young Gypsy” Joan Baez;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijbKOYAewVs

    For Tinto;
    Sandy Denny and Fotheringay: “Gypsy Davy”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzDC4284SA0

  86. Smallaxe says:

    Tinto, here’s the track that I meant to play.

    Sandy Denny and Fotheringay: “Gypsy Davy”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00hpupoh4eU
    😉

  87. Smallaxe says:

    For All Wingers;

    “Don’t Let the Bastards Get you down”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yAW1daYXD4

    “Cheer Up” Bob Marley;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jcag_htR-EI

    Frankie Miller: “Caledonia”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lNWDmfnUsY

    One People One World One Love

  88. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Evening all!

    Good to see some auld faces popping back in!

    Here’s a funky tune I just happened to have playing there on the YT.

    Earth, Wind & Fire, ‘Shining Star’

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2UmP6C9rcs&list=PLi-Y73aIHeoOYLCGDSAwLHC-8ofPO6kAu&index=6

  89. dadsarmy says:

    Every time you look there’s more up there. And yeah, often enough I’ve only ever been there for the beer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgrZmLL1XYQ

  90. Dan says:

    An ominous look into the future as Scots attempt to deal with Donalda MacKinnon’s overzealous BBC broadcasting bias.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNYrmsfoRi4

    Canvas sheets…Keeping me up all night.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKHCud7q-s0

  91. CameronB Brodie says:

    Hi Dan

    Sorry for not replying, way back. I’ve not really been feeling too hot recently, so I’ve not really had much contact with the movement. Nothing to worry about.

    =======

    Folk might wonder why I’m so vocally against self-ID of sex. My training aimed to enable me to support the development of sustainable communities. This training was endorsed by the Royal Town Planning Institute, and included an introduction to ethical rationalism, which is considered a fundamental requirement of ethically moral social practice.

    Liberal constitutionalism can only remain liberal, if public policy remains grounded in empirical reality. As such, contemporary British nationalism and trans-ideology in law, were both considered as detrimental to the potential for effective and open democracy.

    Supporting trans-ideology in law, dislocates legal reason from the real world, and undermines the potential for government and public policy that is supportive of ethically moral social practice.

    Is it not a bit silly to fight tooth and claw to defend the legal personhood of those living in Scotland, while denying the same ethical logic to the legal rights of women? Endorsing a state of authoritarianism that is grounded in the irrational, whether British nationalism or trans-ideology, can certainly not be considered compatible with a state of ethical governance.

    Persons and citizens in constitutional thought
    https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/8/1/9/682631

  92. CameronB Brodie says:

    One for your traditional Marxists, who tend to deny the significance of personal identity, due to a unfavorable suspicion of the political emancipation of the individual. Marxists tend to view individual liberty to be a gateway for market exploitation. Solidarity, brother.

    Also suitable for the re-edumication of the woke set.

    Personal Freedom through Human Rights Law?
    Autonomy, Identity and Integrity under the European Convention on Human Rights

    https://epdf.pub/personal-freedom-through-human-rights-law-autonomy-identity-and-integrity-under-.html

  93. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi CamB – good to see you posting again.

    Hi Smallaxe – apologies for missing your input in the last couple of weeks.

    Onnyhoo…

    Collected this video via Facebook tonight. The fact that the song was about the gig location reminded me…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHu0h9XaNcg

    When me and my son were in Campbeltown for the AUOB march, we attended an after-march party in the Argyle Arms Hotel, where the band finished off with “Mull of Kintyre” (Wings.)
    Onnywhere else, it would have been cheesy but, that night, it worked.

    But I still think that the best version of “Loch Lomond” is the recording from the Albert Halls Stirling, in the late 80s.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOwvlC_fO-E

    Sleep pattern disturbed, hence silly hours comment.

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    Hi Brian, I see the loonatic fringe of the reactionery right has outed itself on the MT. 🙂

    As with Zionist nationalism, Englishness is often guilty of thinking itself blessed from above, and so justified in a sense of cultural supremacy (see the full-English Brexit).

    Christian Zionism and English National Identity, 1600–1850

    This book explores why English Christians, from the early modern period onwards, believed that their nation had a special mission to restore the Jews to Palestine. It examines English support for Jewish restoration from the Whitehall Conference in 1655 through to public debates on the Jerusalem Bishopric in 1841.

    Rather than claiming to replace Israel as God’s “elect nation”, England was “chosen” to have a special, but inferior, relationship with the Jews. Believing that God “blessed those who bless” the Jewish people, this national role allowed England to atone for ill-treatment of Jews, read the confusing pathways of providence, and guarantee the nation’s survival until Christ’s return.

    This book analyses this mode of national identity construction and its implications for understanding Christian views of Jews, the self, and “the other”. It offers a new understanding of national election, and of the relationship between apocalyptic prophecy and political action.

    https://www.palgrave.com/gp/book/9783319771939

  95. Dan says:

    Hi Cam,
    Aye, this Indy game certainly is a rollercoaster ride and there’s no harm taking a break before it makes you puke.
    I’m having a bit of an existential crisis myself these days…
    Can’t even take a break and go fishing as the water’s frozen over!
    Too fookin cold in workshop to play around with classic bike and car projects.
    By the time I get them sorted no doubt the woke brigade will be trying to ban the use of them anyway for environmental reasons, not realising that all their social media posts are sitting in mega servers consuming huge amounts of power.
    I presume they’ll be paying a price premium on their smartphone tariffs to ensure the shit they post is being held on a server powered by renewable energy.
    I mean, you are either part of the solution or part of the precipitate.

    Anyway, question for you Cam, as you regularly link to academic studies; I thought it took a lot of years of education, thought, and practical experience to develop a good strong foundation of knowledge on any particular subject.

    So how come these young cocksure woke types are supposedly so well versed and at the cutting edge in numerous different areas?
    EG. Studied economics but also think they are an expert in the fields of biology, social sciences, and geo-politics.
    I’m calling bullshit and think they spent their time studying ego-politics.

  96. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dan
    You might be on to something there Dan. Labour were out street campaigning in my neck of the woods, just the other day. I spoke with one elderly Scottish gent, who claimed to be a socialist who would never support nationalism. He agreed with me that Brexit was Tory madness and that it would harm Scotland. Unfortunately, his cognitive dissonance prevented him from appreciating his support for the union, was an endorsement of English (Tory) nationalism. According to this gent, Scotland has nothing to worry about over Brexit, as Corbyn is a good man, with Scotland’s best interests at hart. He’ll look out for Scotland. Apparently.

    I then got speaking with a young English woman in her thirties(?). She was open to me suggesting that contemporary British nationalism denies Scotland equal legal status to England. She reacted as if I was an unspeakable ghoul though, for suggesting that biological women need to do more to defend their legal identities, and that trans-women are not women, but biological men performing an interpretation of womanhood. Apparently the trans-cult is more culturally entrenched than I had imagined.

    Insisting that medical science and legal decree can transform man in to woman, diminishes the cultural value that can be afforded to the state of being female, thereby providing cultural justification for the legal subordination of womanhood, to the interests of biological men. As such, endorsing trans-ideology in law, ‘breaks’ legal reason and promotes the legal consolidation of misogynistic patriarchy.

    What is John Locke’s theory of natural rights and justification for a limited government?
    https://medium.com/patrickdaniel/what-is-john-locke-s-theory-of-natural-rights-and-justification-for-a-limited-government-80feecdaaa27

  97. David says:

    It is about time for this old classic now, methinks:
    The Bonzo Dog (Doo Dah) Band – “No Matter Who You Vote For, The Government Always Gets In”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjJLTslWp_Q

  98. David says:

    Last Orders! 🙂

    ‘Order!’: John Bercow’s decade of thunderous pronouncements, in 104 seconds:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY7EIZl4raY

    Contains all his hits, including:
    “Calm yourself man!”
    “You’re a very jocular fellow but a little over-excitable today”
    “No, No, resume your seat young man.”
    “Get a grip of yourself, man”

  99. David says:

    But wait, there’s more! Because you demanded it, here’s
    60 SECONDS OF ORDER –

    ORDER!! (John Bercow REMIX):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJcpajX7EdU

  100. Clapper57 says:

    @ David @ 3.21..3.35 & 3.41pm

    Excellent..

    Are you taking requests DJ man..Lol ?

    What about ‘Cap in Hand’ the Proclaimers…seems apt at this present moment in time…….

  101. David says:

    Sing if you’re winning…

    “Deputy speaker’s fury at SNP singing EU anthem ‘Ode to Joy’ ”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i57sjfsdfBo (73 seconds)

  102. David says:

    By special request 🙂
    “But I can’t understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand”

    Cap in Hand -The Proclaimers

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTRzvmxsci0

  103. Clapper57 says:

    @ David @ 3.56pm

    Thanks David….you are a star.

    Have a fabby evening….

  104. David says:

    And that reminds me, Clapper57, of the other great Proclaimers song, ‘Letter from America’. Made even better, of course, with new improved LibDem spelling…

    When you go will you send back
    A letter from America?
    Lochbar no more
    Southerland no more
    Lewis no more
    Sky no more

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy9GmieAEaQ

  105. David says:

    One of the SNP’s best moments in Westminster. More of this, please!
    Scottish National Party MPs walked out en masse from the UK parliament after their leader was ordered to leave the House of Commons in a row over Brexit. (June 2018)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EXGjeC0nnA

  106. David says:

    Because we are all getting funked up by parliament:

    Parliament – P-Funk (Wants to Get Funked Up) (1975)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyJzylk8d_M

  107. Clapper57 says:

    @ David @ 4.05pm

    Lol…what a riddy…that’s what happens when you get a …’Letter (Leaflet) from Engerland’…..not just Jo Swinson’s vowels that are a problem…first they came for our pronunciation…then they came for our spelling….wft will they do to our grammar…Lol

  108. David says:

    I was looking at the Scottish Liberal Democrats Income and Expenditure Account for 2018, as you do, and it struck me how small they really are.
    They get lots of press and tv coverage, their views are publicised and debated, but they are just small.
    4,000 paid-up members.
    10 employees (not all full-timers) for a wage bill of £90,000.
    5 MSPs.
    4 MPs.
    (To be fair they probably have a bucketload of Lords.)
    Total income of £292,500.
    Total expenses of £267,900.
    Yearly surplus of £24,700.

    That’s it?!

    20 years ago I was running a pub that had a greater income than that. And employed more people. And had better profitability. And was better regarded in our community…

  109. Dan says:

    Timely dedication to England.

    Kasabian – You’re In Love With a Pyscho

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kimPUWSwxIs

  110. hackalumpoff says:

    Translation, Doubt if Rev Stu will get it tha,

    Fairytale Of Stornoway

    Was Christmas Eve babe, In the drunk tank
    An old man said to me, I won’t see another one
    And then he sang a song, by Donnie Dotaman
    I turned my face away, and dreamed about you
    Got on a lucky one, Came in eighteen to one
    I’ve got a feeling, That this year’s for me and you
    So happy Christmas, I love you baby
    Can’t see a better time, When all our dreams come true
    They’ve got cars big as bars, They’ve got rivers of gold
    When the wind goes right through you, Like it does in Cromore
    When you first took my hand On a cold Christmas Eve
    You promised me ‘Broadbay’ was waiting for me
    You were handsome, You were pretty, Queen of Stornoway City
    When the band finished playing, They cried out for more
    The Blones they were swinging, Old Bodachs were singing
    We kissed on the corner, Then danced through the night
    And the boys of the SY Village Byre, Were singing “Eilean Fraoich”
    And the bells were ringing out For Christmas day
    Tha thusa làn Cac, Tha thusa làn Guga
    Tha mise dol dhachaigh gu Eilean mo ghràidh
    You Radan, you Meppan, you Cailleach, you Bleggard
    Tha do Thoin fleeking salach, I’m off to my bed
    I could have been someone, Well so could anyone
    You took my Sheep from me, When I first found you
    I kept them with me babe, I put them with my own
    Can’t make it all alone, I’ve built my Flock around you

  111. Sarah says:

    Are you a romantic, Hackalumpoff? Of course you are!!

  112. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Hackalumpoff –

    ‘you took my sheep from me…’

    🙂 🙂 🙂

  113. David says:

    Stu said on his other twitter account, @RevStu, which he mostly uses for videogames stuff, that his Wings account has been “Permabanned”.
    Not good.

  114. Tam the Bam. says:

    Was in my local tonight discussing the political bish-bash…..
    guy next to me said he was sorry to see Stephen Kerr lose his seat (Tory/Stirling)

    I am not…on so many levels….I realise if I make disparaging/pejoratives re:the Mormon church.. I will be in trouble….so far beit from me to suggest the Church of Latter Day Saints is a homophobic (I’m straight by the way)American Institution…invariably Republican (they REALLY didn’t like Barack Obama….the Mormon Church only admitted ‘people of colour’ to their church in 1968 (check the timeline)…so hey WELCOME HOME ALYN SMITH!…..just thought I would share that with y’all.

  115. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Smallaxe –

    Great to see you, and TC, popping up on the MT.

    Bestest, as aye.

    🙂

  116. Cactus says:

    Hey Wingers, Seasons Greetings ’19 tae ye all, cheers to ye Rev X.

  117. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Ian B and cactus: seasonal and fraternal greetings. It’s been a tough year for us all and things are likely to get tougher for a while yet but here’s two guys (can I say that?) to inspire us:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Kxq9uFDes&list=RDn8Kxq9uFDes&start_radio=1

    Heavy-handed political point over…..

  118. Marie Clark says:

    Just popped in to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas. All the best folks.

  119. Smallaxe says:

    Hi, Ian, Cactus and Marie and any other Wingers that are lurking.

    TC tried to answer you earlier today, Ian but his comment didn’t appear, it probably wasn’t worth reading anyway as he’s off his med’s atm.
    😉

    Enjoy the festive season everyone and enjoy spending the time with your loved ones, family and friends are important but remember the homeless and the lonely, donate to the homeless if you are able and give generously of your time to the lonely.

    A couple of suggestions; https://social-bite.co.uk/what-we-do/
    and https://h4th.org.uk/ https://www.campaigntoendloneliness.org/threat-to-health/

    Remember last year?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SZVdUAM2hw

    Peace and Love to you All!

  120. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Greetings to all from Stevenston!
    X

  121. Macart says:

    All the very best of the season folks. 🙂

  122. William Wallace says:

    Seasons greetings to you all and all the very best for 2020.

  123. Tinto Chiel says:

    To all the O/T gang: seasonal and fraternal greetings. It’s been a tough year for us all and things are likely to get tougher for a while yet but here’s two guys (can I say that?) to inspire us:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Kxq9uFDes&list=RDn8Kxq9uFDes&start_radio=1
    Heavy-handed political point over…..

  124. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Cheers TC, never heard that before.

    😉

  125. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Ian B: you’re welcome and now you’re on a list somewhere for listening to it, hee, hee!

  126. Smallaxe says:

    Seasons Greetings to All;

    Enjoy the festive season everyone and enjoy spending the time with your loved ones.
    Family and friends are important but remember the homeless and the lonely, donate to the homeless if you are able and give generously of your time to the lonely. A smile and a kind word can make a big difference.

    I’m aware that most Wingers are kind and compassionate and will already donate to their chosen charities but I hope you don’t mind if I make a couple of suggestions; https://social-bite.co.uk/what-we-do/
    and https://h4th.org.uk/

    We may have some hard times ahead so let’s do our best to look after the most vulnerable of us who call Scotland their home now and in the future.

    Peace and Love to you All!

    When Freedom Calls;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SZVdUAM2hw

  127. David says:

    Season’s Greetings, everyone!
    (The Undertones – “Here comes the summer”)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edQPMLV2ITs

    Hey, it’s summer now in the southern hemisphere. 😉

  128. Clapper57 says:

    @ smallaxe

    Hi …what a sweetie you are……have a lovely Xmas.

    @ David

    Many thanks for responding to my …annoying…musical requests……have a fabby Xmas

  129. Liz g says:

    Smallaxe
    Sending my very best wishes to you and Mrs Smallaxe,I hope you have a wonderful time…. Stay well my dear friend and take good care of each other xxxx

  130. Smallaxe says:

    Hi, Liz. Thank you, I hope that you and yours have a Peaceful and Loving festive season.

    The Pogues – Fairytale Of New York;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jbdgZidu8

    Stop The Cavalry – Jona Lewie (An anti-war song for Christmas);
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npN4Yykakus

    Elmo & Patsy – Grandma Got Run over by a Reindeer;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgIwLeASnkw
    🙂

  131. CameronB Brodie says:

    So it appears that Scotland’s judiciary are determined to make the Scottish legal system an international laughingstock. In my humble opinion, Scotland is extremely poorly served by its so-called legal experts. I’m frankly shocked at the lack of respect for natural law and natural justice, that appears to permeate the profession in Scotland.

    Justice and equality are achieved by locating the moral philosophy that corresponds coherently with empirical reality. Not by endorsing private language games invented in the minds of the clinically disordered.

    Sorry for the length of this post, but you can blame point 84 of the judgement. This judge is either a total clown, or an irascible misogynist. He’s only criminalised scientific discourse, ffs.

    THE VERIFIABILTY PRINCIPLE AND SCIENCE

    ….Wittgenstein thought that the most important thing in the Tractatus was the notion of the inexpressible—the thought that metaphysics, ethics, religious belief, etc. go beyond what we can say. Like Duhem, he does not want to disparage what cannot be expressed by our language (Duhem would have said ‘by science’). Such matters are more elevated and more deserving of our respect than those mundane states of affairs which do admit of expression.

    But Wittgenstein quickly went on to abandon the view of meaning set out in the Tractatus.79 In the Philosophical Investigations, mostly completed by 1945 and published in 1953, we find him no longer with the view of language as a picture which touches reality. Language, rather, is an instrument which has a certain purpose or use, namely, communication. The meaning of an expression is its use and knowing the meaning of an expression is knowing how to use it in some particular ‘language game’.

    The later Wittgenstein’s emphasis is on what it is to understand a sentence. The view that he sees himself as opposing is the Augustinian view81 that ostensive definition fixes the meaning of a term and is thus the foundation of language. Such definitions, Wittgenstein suggests, are not enough to provide knowledge of meaning. If I try to explain the meaning of the word ‘tove’ by pointing at a pencil and uttering the word, my definition is open to a number of interpretations, such as tove meaning ‘pencil’, ‘round’, ‘wood’, ‘hard’, etc. (1958:2) One requires some background information in order to decide what other things, besides the pencil, one should call tove.

    Thus, an ‘ostensive definition explains the use—the meaning—of the word [only] when the overall role of the word in language is clear’.(30) Ostensive definition can succeed only when combined with a background of practices.(6, 30)

    In addition, Wittgenstein now wants to argue against the thought that simple statements express what is immediately given to us in experience and against the solipsism which seems to accompany this thought. We have seen that, since what is immediately given can only be understood by that to whom it is given, simple statements cannot be understood by anyone else. It is the possibility of such a private language that Wittgenstein argues against and it is here that verificationism crops up again.

    The argument turns on the thought that sense data do not meet the criteria of identity, which must be public or publicly verifiable. It is ironic that an argument against sense data results in a kind of verificationism, for we have seen and shall see again that the argument that sentences must be reduced to sense data is often a source of verificationism.

    Wittgenstein’s suggestion is that, because of the failure of the private naming ceremony to give a term meaning, the private linguist is in the position where whatever seems right to her is right. In that case, she loses her grip on the notions of correctness and incorrectness for the sentences in question. If, for instance, the private linguist claimsto be using the term ‘blue’ consistently, her only criterion for knowing that she is using it consistently is that it seems to her that that thing in front of her is the same colour as other things which she has called blue. But she cannot, Wittgenstein suggests, make sense of the thought that she is using the term consistently. It may seem to her that she is following a pattern, but in fact, she might be using the term in an arbitrary fashion. In Wittgenstein’s words: ‘Always get rid of the idea of the private object in this way: assume that it constantly changes, but that you do not notice the change because your memory constantly deceives you.’83

    ….Thus, Wittgenstein holds that the only way we can maintain the distinction between ‘seems right to me’ and ‘is right’ is by thinking about it as a matter of agreement within a speech community. Understanding or knowing the meaning of an expression is not a private internal matter. To say that P is a sentence in a private language is to say that there does not have to be any public consequences if P is true; P being true is something that is entirely a matter for the private linguist. But then ‘P seems right to me’ will always be a sufficient condition for ‘P is right’. There is nothing that would count as evidence for or against the private linguist’s claim that she is using a term in the same way or that she is picking out the same property by the term. Nothing would count as evidence to an observer and nothing would count as evidence to the speaker herself.

    So, if I am to have a grip on the distinction between ‘P seems right to me’ and ‘P is right’, there must be some consequences of P being right that are in principle ascertainable by someone other than myself. For if we have a grip on a distinction, we must be sometimes able to distinguish on the basis of it. By hypothesis, this possibility is closed to the private linguist. The fact that the private linguist does not have any way of using the distinction entails that there is, for the private linguist, no difference in the content in the things to be distinguished. That is, the private linguist will not be able to use the phrases ‘P is right’ and ‘P seems right to me’ in any ways in which their content is contrasted.

    Another way of putting the point is to say that if a person is not in a position to commit herself to anything about the way things would be different if a statement were true (or false) then it is quite obscure what reason either we have or she has for thinking that she understands it. For if a statement is about anything, one’s understanding it cannot merely be a matter of thinking that she knows what it means or of having a certain sort of image in her mind. If someone knows the meaning of P, she must be able to manifest knowledge of those consequences. It is not enough if she says that she knows the meaning of P because she can envision it or formulate it to herself. Understanding is not a mysterious state like that. It must be in part manifested by expecting experience to take a certain course.

    For ‘justification consists in appealing to something independent’(265, 378); it requires more than the feeling that one has correctly reidentified the property. Understanding involves practical abilities and they must be displayable in public.84

    [as such, the concept of “woman” is reducable to the conditions underwhich womanhood is verified through biology or behaviour that confirm woomanhood.]

    (sorry, lost my link and I’m away from Edinburgh)

  132. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    An interesting read, CamB.

    Onnyhoo… wasn’t on the Mac very much at all yesterday so Merry Christmas to ab’dee that hings oot here, specially you Smallaxe!

    A reprise of a wee bit of reggae for you…
    https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/myoozack/MagnificentSeven-Reggae-Bagpipes.64kbps.mp3

  133. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    And here’s the other slice of Scottish cross country dancing myoozack… from a prominent YESSER!

    https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/myoozack/AlastairMacDonald-Lets-Foot-It-Out-64kbps.mp3

  134. CameronB Brodie says:

    This latest judgement will help to undermine the legal status of biological women, and should concern all those who support open democracy.

    Verifiability is a core principle of science

    Abstract

    Scientific knowledge is supposed to be verifiable. Replications promote verifiability in several ways. Most straightforwardly, replications can verify empirical claims. Replication research also promotes dissemination of information needed for other aspects of verification; creates meta-scientific knowledge about what results to treat as credible even in the absence of replications; and reinforces a broader norm of scientists checking each other’s work.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain-sciences/article/verifiability-is-a-core-principle-of-science/D46462A598492AFDB7AFB4975A313446

  135. CameronB Brodie says:

    Brian Doonthetoon
    Hi Brian. Sorry for going off on one, but when you understand this stuff, the nature of current events are just too much to handle. Democracy in Scotland is under serious threat from two cult like political movement. The auld enemy of British nationalism. And the party I’ve supported all my life, is endorsing the other one, i.e. gender ideology in law. I’m gutted, so I can imagine how those who have dedicated their lives to the party must feel.

    Understanding People: Normativity and Rationalizing Explanation
    Reviewed by Hallvard Lillehammer, King’s College, Cambridge University

    https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/understanding-people-normativity-and-rationalizing-explanation/

  136. CameronB Brodie says:

    Chapter 7 on Beliefs, might help folk understand the danger of magical thinking, and the threat that” pluralistic ignorance” presents to open society. It is certainly magical thinking to imagine humanity is not part of nature. But that is the logical commitment that one must make in order to support trans ideology, which insists the human condition is entirely the result of the will of man. Such a belief is not only unscientific, it is extremely environmental unfriendly, as it lacks proper respect for nature, or concern for humanity’s relationship with nature. It also means one has to reject the Biopsychosocial Model of Health, so makes one a political opponent of the World Health Organisation. Embarassing, much?

    Explaining Social Behavior: More Nuts and Bolts for the
    Social Sciences

    https://www.kcl.ac.uk/sspp/departments/politicaleconomy/Elster-Explaining-Social-Behavior-2007-pages-1-20.pdf


    Chapter 7
    Beliefs

    What Is It to ‘‘Believe’’ Something? To understand the role of beliefs in generating action, we have to understand their nature, their causes, and their consequences.

    ….In philosophical analyses, knowledge is usually defined as justified true belief, a belief that stands in a particular relation both to the world (it is true) and to the body of evidence the agent possesses (it is justified). Yet neither of these features of knowledge captures the subjective certainty that often underlies the phrase ‘‘I know’’ in ordinary discourse. This certainty is not simply the limit of 97% probability, 98%, 99%, 99.9%, and so forth. It is qualitatively different from anything short of certainty.2

    Biopsychosocial Model
    applications.emro.who.int/imemrf/Ann_Punjab_Med_Coll/Ann_Punjab_Med_Coll_2007_1_1_11_13.pdf

    The Biopsychosocial Model 40 Years On
    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-11899-0_1

  137. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m done but I’m not shitting folks about our judiciary.

    Conceptual Jurisprudence
    https://journals.openedition.org/revus/3351

  138. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB –

    Hope you are well friend. Good to see you posting again.

    I won’t pretend to have read the links you put up there but I’m familiar with some of the thinking that underpins it.

    FWIW, I believe we’re fortunate to live in a time when there are some seriously creative people who use whatever influence they have to get the message ‘out there’ as far as possible.

    And that ‘message’ isn’t a difficult one to understand – be ‘decent’ to other folk, don’t tolerate bullying, and hold to the belief that humanity trumps ideology.

    (Much much harder to persuade folk that being a selfish fucker is the way to go – Trump, Johnson et al may have the backing of powerful people/institutions, but they never sound convincing on anything even vaguely ‘ethical’.)

  139. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Hi Ian. Thanks for taking an interest, that’s yourself and Brian already half way to understanding. I’m not really expecting folk to get stuck in to these links, though it would be great if some of our decision makers would. And you’re absolutely correct, respecting the relational autonomy of Others is not a particularly burdensome social skill, but it is sadly lacking sufficient encouragement in modern Britain.

    People generally want to be good and need to be seen to be good, but most folk don’t have an in-depth appreciation of what does and doesn’t constitute ethically moral social practice. That’s why British nationalism and woke liberalism appear more popular than they actually are. Both feeds on the power of pluralistic ignorance, encouraging inappropriate political correctness and social conformity beyond the point of reason and moral virtue. That’s why the law mustn’t cut itself off from ethical rationalism, as appears to be happening here in Scotland.

    Ethical Rationalism and the Law
    https://www.bloomsburyprofessional.com/uk/ethical-rationalism-and-the-law-9781849467865/

  140. David says:

    RIP author and artist Alasdair Gray.
    Alasdair Gray interview – on painting and books” (3min 30sec)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX6kyv_PHHM

  141. Macart says:

    I know I’ve been a bit out of it for a few months, but I see that the M/T is still a tad on the spicey side. 😎

    Onywise… All the best for the New Year Wingers. 🙂

  142. Clapper57 says:

    A Guid New Year to everyone…..

    Gonna stay off M/T for a wee while….or a long long time Lol

    Cannot be arsed ….hopefully that is not too NEGATIVE to say..Lol

    Hopefully next year will meet some wingers at some of the AUOB marches…….

    All the best….

  143. Marie Clark says:

    All the best for the new year folks.

    Clapper57, yes I agree with you, I’ve been off the MT for quite a while now, and it’s done me a world of good.

    Onyhoo, boots and Saltire ready for 11th January, batteries recharged and ready to go.

    Guid New Year to all of us, looks like it might be a busy one.

  144. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Hiya abody.

    Just a swift one to say HNY to youse all when it comes.

    Here’s a proper earworm to carry into 2020:

    Ian Brown, ‘First World Problems’ –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMRYIRnVhlE

  145. Dan says:

    Aye, first world problems indeed Ian. Hopefully Scots can soon get over their F.E.A.R to use another Ian Browne song title.
    It has been a busy year but I’m seeing it out with a pint or twa.
    All the best to wingers, both posters and lurkers.
    If I survive the evening and a dook in the sea tomorrow I may return…

  146. Nana says:

    For all Wingers, a wee tune for when the bells ring at midnight.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-qA1takyrY

    Slainte and may next year bring our dream of independence closer.

  147. William Wallace says:

    Happy new year to all the aff-topic crew. All the very best to all of you for 2020.

  148. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Pasted from the main page…

    Ach well…
    I posted a couple of comments, just after midnight, here and in ‘off-topic’.

    Neither have appeared on the btl comments. I can only assume that is because I was posting from my phone, for the first time ever. The ‘off-topic’ comment was rejected as spam; the main page one went into moderation.

    Onnyhoo, a big HAPPY NEW YEAR to all Wingers I have eyeballed over the past 5 years or so, and also to those Wingers who have still to enjoy me eyeballing them.

    8=)

  149. CameronB Brodie says:

    Brian Doonthetoon
    Happy New Year mate, it doubt it will take you long to get your head around it. Anyhoo, one from the start of last decade that I think encapsulates the current state of British constitutionalism.

    Graveyard – Uncomfortably Numb
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K58iuxowDvc

  150. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Back home from a rather excellent night in The Taxi Club, Dundee, with Amanda Brown, Brooke Coventry, Pete Scally and The Graham Brown Band.

    I posted this on my Facebook page the other day but I’ll repeat it here. Filmed in Camperdown Park, Dundee.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVKAH5IQIa8

  151. yesbot says:

    Brian Doonthetoon says:
    1 January, 2020 at 3:07 am
    Ach well…
    I posted a couple of comments, just after midnight, here and in ‘off-topic’.
    Neither have appeared on the btl comments.
    ————
    Same. Tried to make several comments on M/T and here over the past few days, none appeared.
    Have requested guidance from the powers that be..?
    Happy New year BDTT and all Wingers. So good to see auld names in reply to Ian’s post, wrote good stuff in appreciation but none of them appeared!

  152. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    See you on the 11th, Yesbot?

    There will be a WOS stall at Glasgow Green.

    There’s wir hub…

    8=)

  153. yesbot says:

    Hi BDTT

    Yes, definitely planning on the 11th.

    Also hoping some absolute miracle happens within SNP hierarchy! I know it’s probably a forlorn hope but, always the optimist…

    Look forward to seeing y’all @ WoS stall.

  154. Dan says:

    C’mon Scotland…This is Useless

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Kyu4XURaE

    Well it’s about time
    It’s beginning to hurt
    Time you made up your mind
    Just what is it all worth

    All my useless advice
    All my hanging around
    All your cutting down to size
    All my bringing you down

    Watch the clock on the wall
    Feel the slowing of time
    Hear a voice in the hall
    Echoing in my mind

    All your stupid ideals
    Got your head in the clouds
    You should see how it feels
    With your feet on the ground

    Here I stand the accused
    With your fist in my face
    Feeling tired and bruised
    With the bitterest taste

  155. Dan says:

    Haha, the next suggested song for me from YT seems a peach for the times!
    Europe – The Final Countdown

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw

    We’re leaving together,
    But still it’s farewell
    And maybe we’ll come back
    To earth, who can tell?
    I guess there is no one to blame (apart from the bastardin Tories)
    We’re leaving ground (leaving ground)
    Will things ever be the same again?
    It’s the final countdown
    The final countdown
    Oh
    We’re heading for Venus (Venus)
    And still we stand tall
    ‘Cause maybe they’ve seen us (seen us)
    And welcome us all, yeah
    With so many light years to go
    And things to be found (to be found)
    I’m sure that we’ll all miss her so
    It’s the final countdown
    The final countdown
    The final countdown
    The final countdown
    Oh
    The final countdown, oh
    It’s the final count down
    The final countdown
    The final countdown
    The final countdown
    Oh
    It’s the final count down
    We’re leaving together
    The final count down
    We’ll all miss her so
    It’s the final countdown
    It’s the final countdown
    Oh
    It’s the final countdown, yeah

  156. Dan says:

    After midnight so sneaking in a dance music banger from Glasgow’s excellent 23rd Precinct Records stable to noise the place up.
    Scotland had a great reputation in the house / clubbing scene during the late 80s and through the 90s for braw music and nights oot due to us aw being such friendly decent chiels.
    Big name DJs would always love coming to Scotland to play a set because the vibe here was so good.
    I recall heavy industrial techno DJ Steve Bicknell played in a function room upstairs in a hotel in Forfar in the early 90s. Can only wonder what the folk in the bar downstairs thought was going on above them! lol

    This one’s dedicated to GoJo Swineson from the good people of East Dunbartonshire.

    Mukkaa – Yurchucked

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=011F5qNGjtU

  157. CameronB Brodie says:

    If I have to allow nationalism determine the potential life opportunities available to myself and my community, then I’d rather it was one that made me feel valued and respected as an equal, not disrespected and oppressed as an awkward and marginalised peripheral region of another nation. And with no hope for positive change or social justice.

    My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult – Do You Wanna Get Funky With Me
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdS3l6LzdSI

  158. CameronB Brodie says:

    ….and marginalised inhabitant of a peripheral region

    The Brian Jonestown Massacre – My Mind Is Filled With Stuff
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7-f2h_Ayho

  159. Gary45% says:

    I have just watched a film, its called “War,Inc”.
    John Cusack is in it, if you wonder where Trump is getting his ideas from, have a look at it.
    The film is basically taking the piss out of American foreign policies, satirical with a serious message.
    HMV has it for £1.99.

  160. Macart says:

    @ BDTT

    Just caught up on the main thread.

    Sympathies and condolences for your loss.

  161. CameronB Brodie says:

    One for our pal Rentoul, and all blind prostitutes of the world.

    My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult – Mystery Babylon
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI1QLL7qeao

  162. Dan says:

    Oh noes. RIP Neil Peart of the band Rush.

    Dreamline

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG3KbhXPX3E

    Time for Scotland to Roll the Bones

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf-g21-arYk

  163. Sarah says:

    @Ian Foulds:ALERT! your link shows your email address! You might want to cancel that link?

    By the way, Peat Worrier was rather against this crowdfunder as he thought the case wasn’t well-founded. It was on his twitter a while back.

  164. Ian Foulds says:

    Just back from the March and wish to thank profusely, the young family who had made glass beads wit Saltires inside and distributing them to the marchers,

    Your gesture was IMMENSE.

    Thank you,

  165. Sarah says:

    @Ian Foulds – did you see my comment above?

  166. Ian Foulds says:

    Sarah says:
    11 January, 2020 at 5:42 pm
    @Ian Foulds – did you see my comment above?

    Many many thanks.

    That is the trouble when one is not streetwise.

    The next challenge is rectifying it!!!

  167. Sarah says:

    Hi Ian – I am very familiar with that problem! Anything other than basic email is beyond me!

  168. CameronB Brodie says:

    The British constitution is as much a statement of moral intent, as it is a document of law. Without moral justification, British constitutionalism turns to English despotism. Scotland’s cultural oppression will only intensify, without proper respect for the moral law justification of the British constitution.

    KMFDM – Bait And Switch
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_JcjfoTTAQ

  169. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry for getting hyper-geeky but I don’t know how much longer I’m staying in Dundee and I’ve nailed the gender debate. OK, I haven’t but I’ve managed to track down a couple of dudes who have. I’m frankly stunned at the inability of contemporary academia to translate this insight into publicly available knowledge. That must be the effect of the “performative” turn in social science, which relegated the significance of empirical reality to the significance ascribed to the realm of emotions. That’s the day post-structuralism almost broke the human capacity for practical reason, which some of us are still trying to fix.

    I don’t know if anyone remembers me banging on about Heidegger. Well he’s kind of important in terms of how we understand being, reality, science, philosophy, politics, political difference, and stuff. Here he explains why a post-foundationalist epistemology is preferable to an anti-foundationalist epistemology, which is demanded by gender-ideology.

    Heidegger, Left and Right:
    Differential Political Ontology and Fundamental Political Ontology Compared

    http://www.4pt.su/en/content/heidegger-left-and-right

    Understanding Post-Foundationalism: The Importance and Perils of Giving Ground to the Groundless
    https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showpdf.php?id=23390

    I’ve also mentioned phenomenology before, so you should already be up to speed with your philosophical inquiry of human conciseness and being. Well I couldn’t link to this until I’d tracked down Heidegger’s inquiry of political ontology, but my philosophical anthropology is rusty. Mkay! Mkay?

    A Phenomenology of Sexual Difference: Types, Styles and Persons
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226055051_A_Phenomenology_of_Sexual_Difference_Types_Styles_and_Persons

    Stereolab – The Noise of Carpet
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGREbC-Q2Do

  170. CameronB Brodie says:

    And as that is most probably meaningless wonk-speak to most folk, here something that might help folk understand why post-foundationalism is vital to open democracy.

    Anti-foundational epistemology provides the conditions for totalitarianism.

    postfoundationalism and social democracy
    https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/12236885.pdf

  171. CameronB Brodie says:

    Obviously Brexit can’t be considered compatible with social democracy. I can’t believe I’m posting this but I am.

    What is Social Democracy?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvJ8YDma7Wk

  172. Dan says:

    Test as post held in moderation on main thread.

  173. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dan
    Might be a filtered word in the text (see combinations of N, F and L and possibly other combinations of letters from the alphabet. Or words like tr4tor, r4pe, and stuff that makes sense but I can’t explain. A bit like the meaning of life. 🙂

  174. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve not broken the chitchat and choons again, have I? Never let the bastards get you down. Here’s it tip to follow, if you’re a fan of ethical reason and constitutional justice that is.

    Slade – Run Runaway
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK2F7jjnuoM

  175. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    An iconic choon, from 1968…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or50fEiwI0w

  176. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    A wee rant…

    When I was being trained as a TV maintenance guy in the early 70s, it was pointed out that ITV broadcasted their PROGRAMMES at 70% of the available audio level, whilst the adverts were transmitted at 100%.

    This was designed to give the adverts more audible impact.

    They’re still at it! I have “National Lampoon’s European Vacation” (ITV4) on as my background noise and had to turn up the volume to hitherto unprecedented levels to hear the dialogue.

    When the ad break came, my ears were assaulted! ITV4 seem to be working on 50-60% of max for the programmes and 100% for the ads.

    Come the revolution…

  177. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    BTW: if you like dipping into ‘off-topic’ or ‘Quarantine’;
    next time you submit a comment, tick the box beside where it has “Notify me of new posts by email” and you’ll get an email whenever a new comment is posted.

    You’ll miss nuhin’ that wye…

  178. William Wallace says:

    @ BDTT

    It’s not that the volumes differ as such. The DB levels are essentially the same. It’s known in the industry as compression. Certain parts of the audible frequency range are raised and more pronounced.

    I used to use the same technique a lot in dance music production to make a particular channel more prominent.

    It worked very well with bass lines etc to make them more prominent (hit you in the gut style) in the overall mix.

    Often this would be combined with “ducking” or sidechain compression to allow the thwump of the kick drum to come to the fore too allowing for punchy drums and deep wobbly bass.

    If you were to plug in a db meter to your audio output jack on the tv you would notice that the signal remains largely the same.

    Still annoying though. I’ve not watched telly in years as I can’t stand the constant interruption.

  179. Clapper57 says:

    Looking on the M/T I see we have another ‘vis-idiot-tor’…giving us his/her words of his/her perceived wisdom…

    There is, it seems, a revolving door to this site for pompous, conflated egos, argumentative and insulting twats …and as one leaves…another one enters…they think they are being original in coming here and telling us what’s what….like we have NEVER had ANYONE like them before with the exact same attitude, same arguments indeed the exact modus operandi used to force their opinion upon other users and a also force a reaction….it has become tiring and as per usual lacks subtlety and originality..

    Almond Chutney….best served in an Indian recipe as opposed to the tripe he/she via their chosen handle is serving up here.

    0/10 for trying…in fact like all the others he/she is VERY trying…and trying TOO hard….perhaps he/she should TRY harder at not being an idiot….maybe give their nearest and dearest a piece of their mind as opposed to boring others , who neither want nor care what they think, on this site….

    God is there no place where C**ts will not go…..obviously not.

    #MakeThisaC**tFreeSite….I wish…Lol

  180. Dan says:

    @Clapper57

    Almonds are toxic in large amounts and in more ways than one!

    Oor Breeks produced a belter of response early on and basically crushed the individual into marzipan rather than chutney. lol

    This seems appropriate tuneage for the times…

    Shed Seven – Chasing Rainbows

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1LgGfhVVjg

  181. Ian Foulds says:

    If Gibraltar is thinking of joining Schengen, why is Scotland not?

    Do we not have the power!!!

    What are the advantages (apart from annoying Westminster)?

    What are the disadvantages?

    Thanks.

  182. Clapper57 says:

    @ Dan @ 8.37pm on 20 January

    Unfortunately…Chutney is back on the menu…via M/T……surely we have bigger fish to fry…..AND surely there is better ways to SPICE things up on here than messing about with Almond Chutney….Lol

    Hope you are well Dan…have a great evening

  183. Dan says:

    @Clapper57

    I made loads of chutney last year from the marrows, onions and tomatoes I grew so have no need for that buffoon’s nutty confiture on main thread.
    I’m no fan of marzipan but still having to endure almonds as I work my way through all these fuckin Toblerones I got for crimbo.

    I’m having a braw entertaining evening watching a new sport I hadn’t seen before.
    As if freestyle skating wasn’t hard enough they’ve incorporated it into slalom.
    Couple of 2 min vids of kids bustin their moves.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WQ5JeWIPIE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5EZG1Oc5m0



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