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Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, Part 676

Posted on April 05, 2016 by

Kezia Dugdale, 7 March 2016:

dugcrap

Let’s just run that one through the ol’ Checkalizer 5000.

Less than a year previously:

yougovleft

11 months after that poll, under Dugdale’s leadership Scottish Labour have, entirely by coincidence, lurched suddenly to the left with proposals to hike income tax across the board which aren’t supported by Labour anywhere else in the UK.

Yep, that all seems about usual.

.

Some previous Kezia Dugdale Fact Checks: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]

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    1. 05 04 16 12:21

      Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, Part 676 | Speymouth

    95 to “Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, Part 676”

    1. Kazindy says:

      Kez does it again.

      My personal favourite ditsy moment was when she was interviewed and couldn’t remember ANYTHING that was carved on the notorious “Ed stone”

    2. Ian MacDonald says:

      If Scotland was not more left wing than the rest of the UK, you would expect the voting percentages for right wing parties to be roughly inline.

      2015 GE

      Scotland share of votes
      Conservative 14.9%
      UKIP 1.6%

      UK share of votes
      Conservative 36.8%
      UKIP 12.7%

    3. ArtyHetty says:

      Checkalizer, great!

      Labour and their, ahem, supporters, still see themselves as socialist. It is to them the opposite to nationalist, which they like to think of as right wing, even fascist.

      They are so deluded it is quite worrying, considering they ditched socialism quite some time back and adopted tory right wing ideology. Not much hope for them now.

    4. Andrew Mclean says:

      Watch it Rev, she will call her named person on you!

    5. Morgatron says:

      Kezia, only thing your left on is the building. Any way not long until the circus comes to town. Poor girls got egg timers disease , forgets everything after three minutes.

    6. vagabondo says:

      So Kezzie doesn’t have any policies that she wants the main man to help explain. Instead she wants him to talk about the SNP. Seems to be North British Laour business as usual ? full steam backwards with SNPBad!

    7. Luigi says:

      I fear for the Labour branch manager at the next leaders’ debate. She is going to be completely and utterly trashed by all her opponents (except for wee Willie, whose party is in just as big a mess). Talk about making life difficult for yourself. One by one, the political fences that Labour like to sit on (propped up by the BBC)are crumbling before our eyes. 🙂

    8. G H Graham says:

      “Elected” by around 5,000 people if I am not mistaken.

      Those one party states, eh?

    9. ClanDonald says:

      Yes, Kezia, it’s complete crap that Scotland doesn’t like having Tory Governments that we didn’t vote for, we want them just as much as England does, we just don’t know it yet.

      Thank God we have you, Kezia, to tell us what we really want. Where would we be without you!

    10. Hamish McTavish says:

      Why oh why aren’t they concerned about Wee Ruthie’s lot?

      Why haven’t they learned the lesson that repeating the same old SNP Baaad mantra ISN’T FECKIN’ WORKING?

      What a bunch of wastrels.

    11. Dan Huil says:

      Dugdale is an embarrassment to Scotland. The bbc loves her of course. The brown-nose relationship between Labour in Scotland and the bbc is truly disgusting.

    12. galamcennalath says:

      What does Kezia think Corbyn knows about the SNP? He’s only recently found out that there is a country called Scotland which lies somewhere beyond the M25.

      Funny how Labour insist Scots are no different from others in the UK, yet they go to great lengths of foster a Scottish brand and pretence of autonomy. If they actually believed that, they would drop the ‘branch branding’ and go with one UK Labour. (Which is of course the underlying reality.)

    13. dakk says:

      Dugdale wants to increase income tax in order to increase Labour’s client vote by creating more red tory noveaux riche public sector jobs.

      That is straight out of the Gordon Brown red tory school of politics and economics.

      It could be construed as left wing on some level,but as a policy to redistribute wealth to the poor,it is not.

      There is nothing socialist about Labour or Dugdale.

    14. heedtracker says:

      Bizarre lurch left for SLab but BBC led media creep show also having a stab at leftie ness. BBC vote SLab Scotland even boosting devo today and an ex lefty haha SLab man too. Why now, conservative UKOK meeja gimps suddenly start boosting devo, suckas?

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35965518

      “Scotland would get “major” new powers and a bigger budget if the UK votes to leave the European Union, according to one of the campaigners backing Brexit.”

    15. scav says:

      Slightly puzzling that “human rights” is on the left/right axis according to that poll, rather than the libertarian/authoritarian axis. Are more or fewer human rights left-wing? It’s not obvious without context. But since Theresa May and Nigel Farage are unambiguously on the right, I think I can guess in this case.

      Even more worrying is that rUK seems to think that too many human rights are a bad thing. Which means (as is always the case) they don’t like too many rights for humans other than themselves. And that includes us.

    16. scav says:

      @heedtracker,

      Anyone want to ask that “campaigner” why his party didn’t want Scotland to have major new powers in the UK while we are still in the EU? Or how he, as an ex-MP from a party not expected to be in government any time soon, can guarantee such a promise? Because I bet the BBC didn’t ask him.

    17. Returnofthemac says:

      So Kez thinks Scotland being more left wing than the rest of UK is “complete crap” don’t worry, tomorrow she will think we will be more left wing and then on Thursday we will be in Narnia. Hey ho.

      SNPx2

    18. heedtracker says:

      Because I bet the BBC didn’t ask him.

      BBC Scotland and SLabour are one and the same. Closer May elections gets, the closer their concerted Vote SLab You Morons campaigning gets.

      May is ofcourse a massive deal for all of them too. Polls say SLab seem to be on the way out and it could be “for a generation” too. So Dugdale panics, yanks SLab left, freaking out conservative BBC gimps pile in behind but if polls hold, BBC Scotland cant go on for another 5 years of Scotland’s shite, vote anyone but SNP or else.

      Or can they:D

      Also, going by all the recent UKOK no Ref 2 yoon fury, “for a generation” really means forever.

    19. Whenever Labour politicians find themselves in trouble
      they always resort to the claim they are socialists and
      Scotland isn’t more social than the rest of the UK.

      If that were the case, then she should have been asked
      to explain about the electoral decline of the Tories in
      Scotland.

      And how without significant electoral support in
      Scotland to decide the outcome of UK general elections
      the Tories have and continue to be elected as the
      Government at Westminster more often that Labour have.

      Also why did Blair and Brown have to adopt Thatcher’s
      policy agenda to ensure they got themselves elected to
      government at Westminster, instead of sticking with all
      those socialist polices and values they professed.

      Wouldn’t it I believe it to be more honest of them to
      have stood for election on the principles, values and
      polices that Labour had been founded on?

      However this doesn’t appear to be the Labour way.

    20. alexicon says:

      Is that the reason that the last UK Labour government kept the higher rate of tax at 40p instead of the 50p for 12 and a half years of their 13 year tenure is because she thinks we are all right wing the same as the voters down south?

    21. bobajock says:

      What is a Labour supporter? London means nothing to Scotland except as a sink hole for the rich. Tax avoiders – morally corrupt millionaires. Can’t see the mess from their helicopter pad and penthouse.

      “London Labour and ‘The Doug'” – book coming soon, full of lies and mistakes.

      Edited by yours truly. Oh – its on this page already.

    22. Dr Jim says:

      In order to look credible and intelligent Kezia’s started asking and answering her own questions now even though nobody cares what her conclusions are

      Examples of this new Kezia speak: “SNP Baad!… Why?.. Because they are, and let me explain why”

      See how that works, you don’t need to involve an interviewer at all, and can have yourself a totally one sided conversation, if the interviewer tries to interject she follows up with

      “Let me just answer your first question” which of course the interviewer never asked, and if the interviewer keeps trying she says “No No No because this is important” Willie Rennie is fond of using that tactic

      The other tactic is to start a sentence with the word “SO”
      because that makes the next thing you’re going to say a FACT and as we know Kezia’s big on facts and if you don’t believe her you can look it up for yourself or…….. “Google it”

      That one can get you out of trouble for Oooh… minutes

      Kezia’s last throw of the dice when in real difficulty is usually “Our children, our kiddies, our babies that’s what I dedicate my political career too and is the most important thing there can be ever”

      And there we’ll have to leave it, now the weather

    23. carjamtic says:

      Entitlement

      Slab belief that they are inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment,the fact BBC/MSM continues to provide this will not save them.

      They are caught in a vortex of their own making,their voice,policies,vows,fading and heading down the plug hole.

      When your only the ‘branch manager’ there’s nothing you can do to stop it,kudos for the effort though,you can stop now,your dizzy.

      #everdecreasingcircles

    24. Benjamin says:

      What’s most interesting to me about it is her brass neck with it. Her complete absence of unease when she’s clearly bullshitting (and must know it) shows her comfort with lying. It’s quite disturbing

    25. Ruth Davidson, Keezie’s silent partner, has the hardest job in Scotland, trying to outflank Labour from the right.

    26. michael diamond says:

      Major new powers and a bigger budget for scotland if we leave the eu.eh??? I thought we already had super dooper new powers, the most devolved parliament in the world. Aye right! Can you see that zip running up the back of my head…..lying liebor scum.

    27. Macart says:

      Oh Jeez! 😀 LOL

      At least Kezia’s learning. This time she didn’t add ‘you can google it’. 😀

    28. NeoconNat says:

      I don’t think you can read too much into the survey data. And if Scotland was Independent, I expect more of us would think differently about policy and politics.

      What’s interesting to me is that Labour and the media are really struggling to define the SNP. One minute the SNP is too left, next minute it’s too right, too nationalist, too centralised, etc.

      I guess they can’t pit themselves against us until they can define exactly what we are. But so far they haven’t been able to (or an unwilling to) do it. Let me help them out by doing it for them;

      The Scottish people want to run their own country. We don’t want to exploit anyone or bomb them, and we don’t want disgusting weapons of mass destruction parked next to our biggest cities. We want a society that is fair and gives meaningful opportunities to all so that our kids might grow up to live productive, happy lives.

      Is it really any surprise that the media and Labour don’t want to pit themselves against that?

    29. Valerie says:

      @Dr Jim

      I love reading your posts. Don’t ever stop! 🙂

    30. wee_monsieur says:

      Dr Jim,
      The other tactic is to start a sentence with the word “SO”

      As soon as I hear someone on the radio starting a sentence with ‘So’, I hit the off switch.

    31. Proud Cybernat says:

      “I guess they can’t pit themselves against us until they can define exactly what we are. But so far they haven’t been able to (or an unwilling to) do it.”

      Haven’t they? So I’m not a fascist, cultish, vile cybernat then?

      Dang!

    32. Onwards says:

      I think she had a deal to stay as leader, no matter the result.
      I can’t see that happening after the screwup on tax.

      Their council rebate was unworkable, so now labour are left proposing to tax low earners more.
      Absolutely shambolic. And the Tories raised the upper band limit, allowing the SNP to take a moderate centre-left position that isn’t going to scare away the highest earners.

      As a pragmatic election winning strategy, Labour’s position seems crazy, and more about posturing only. Dugdale was previously against Corbyn for the same reasons, and has got herself into the very same trap.

      How can a party deliver on its overall aims if it can’t win an election?
      The SNP understands that basic principle.

    33. NeoconNat says:

      Proud Cybernat, slow down. You were a vile cybernat last week, this week you are a Tartan Tory. Next week you’ll be something else entirely.

      It would be easier if supporters of Scottish Independence were all the same, distinct colour or something, then they could simply play the race card.

      Have they tried the Hitler card yet? You know, the old “Like the Nazis, the SNP want to be all things to all men” line..

    34. Proud Cybernat says:

      Herald article: Brexit ‘would create more powers for Scottish Parliament’

      Comments Closed.

      Quelle surprise.

    35. K1 says:

      ‘ …I expect more of us would think differently about policy and politics.’

      Like whit?

      Making people who are fat, junkies or alcoholics attend special group therapy for costing the taxpayers money because of their ‘choices’ to become a burden on society?

      Let’s call them ‘camps’ and put a wee brass plate wi the word ‘Workfare’ emblazoned across it and tell them if only they had made the ‘right choice’ they wouldn’t be such
      fat moronic losers who are a drain on everyone else who pay their taxes.

      Yeah…that survey disnae suit your agenda Torynat…the last thing we’ll have is policies that excludes sections of society that those of your ilk deem ‘less than’. You utter disingenuous snob.

    36. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Have they tried the Hitler card yet?”

      Have you been living on Mars for the past four years?

    37. galamcennalath says:

      bobajock says:

      “What is a Labour supporter?”

      These days? That is a good question!

      On the one hand I find it astonishing that 20%ish are going to vote for such a complete bunch of no hopers with no coherent consistent policies.

      However, when they got many more votes, not so long ago, were they much more competent from a Scottish standpoint? They had big beasts at WM and formed governments, now and again.

      They were (and to some extent with councils still are) part of the fabric of society. Most people lived in council houses. Huge numbers of people were trade union members. The web of the Labour Party spread everywhere. This ‘part of people’s lives’ element is still breaking down.

      Also nostalgic allegiance. Where much of the local power has disappeared, tribal loyalty persists.

      There is confusion too, pumped up by the colonial media, the SNP are frankly seen by many as something they are not. Also, natural alternatives like Greens don’t get a fair shout from the media.

      I would have to come to the conclusions that there is nothing associated with Labour which could stop its downward path. I certainly hope it disappears completely to be replaced by ‘home grown’ left of centre.

    38. Big Jock says:

      Proud- Brexit would give Holyrood more powers. The power to dissolve itself if Osborne has his way!

    39. Big Jock says:

      A Labour supporter is someone without an education!

    40. jimnarlene says:

      On reading the title, William Shatner’s Captain Kirk sprang to mind.
      “Kezia Dugdale, Fact- Check, Star-Date 6-7-6; Scotchland-no-more-left-wing, than-rUK”

      Set phasers to malky….SNP x 2

    41. NeoconNat says:

      K1, we’ve been over all this. I’ve moved on, and you should too. It’s beneath me.

      The Independence movement is a broad church. Right now we are comrades, after Independence we can fight about those problems.

    42. NeoconNat says:

      “Have you been living on Mars for the past four years?”

      Seems like it. I don’t read/watch the news or current affairs or anything mainstream. That’s why I know so much.

    43. @Dr Jim

      `The other tactic is to start a sentence with the word “SO”`,

      jeez is that not annoying,thought it was only me that noticed people in interviews using “SO” to start a reply,

      I don`t know what it is supposed to convey or add to the reply but it automatically makes me distrust the user,

      the people that do it all sound coached in how to manipulate interviewers and how to deflect questions.

    44. Proud Cybernat says:

      “That’s why I know so much.

      Clearly.

    45. bugsbunny says:

      Is this the same cunt that has been mouthing off the SNP?

      https://twitter.com/lokiscottishrap

      Stephen.

    46. What are you all gibbering about? Haven’t you heard the news? It’s The Headline in the Herald and Reporting Scotland.The crooked Chinese are coming with their nasty steel girders.
      Nicola Sturgeon is in bed with a dodgy Chinese company.
      We should be talking about nothing else, certainly not the ‘wee things’ that we are not genetically programmed to worry about.
      The six thirty BBC evening news will repeat and expand on Campbell’s China Syndrone (no typo), and late in the evening, Shelley Joffre will whine her way through the Chinese Fakeaway once again, before Magnus Gardham, and well, take your pick of PQ’s stable of Unionist journos, round off two days of ‘What are they not telling us?’ garbage about the Chinese MOU.
      Money for old rope to the UNION Club at the MSM.

      I wonder how much Tom Harris is trousering for fronting, and lying for, the Exit/UKIP lobby Up Here. Beats working for a living like the rest of us have to.
      Kezia may self combust before May. Willie is already a greasy spot on his swivel chair back at the LD Ranch, and Ruth’s in hiding; offshore perhaps.

    47. JGedd says:

      NeoconNat @ 1.52p

      NeoconNat says:The Independence movement is a broad church. Right now we are comrades, after Independence we can fight about those problems.

      I said this more or less in a comment on another thread and yet you accused me of being totalitarian! It’s a strange way to join a forum, to begin by seeking to be confrontational.

    48. K1 says:

      Well of course it’s beneath you Torynat, that’s my point entirely regarding your snobbery. This is not about ‘broad church’ this is about an outlook and worldview that is completely at odds with the ‘Independence’ movement at its core.

      You espouse a worldview that is in fact entirely at ease with Tory austerity rhetoric, that it is the fault of those in the ‘lower echelons’ that our economy is in its current state. You in fact ‘blame’ those who are in poverty and have accused those from backgrounds who have drug, alcohol, obesity problems as having brought that about by ‘choice’.

      From that perspective you regard them as a drain on ‘tax payers’ and have stated they should not receive benefits. You did not address the same level of ‘abuse’ of substance in the ‘upper echelons’, you did not address the true causes and roots of poverty and have not commented on the staggering tax avoidance that has been underway by members of the ‘upper echelons’ that truly has impoverished our communities, all the while preaching through their right wing rags that ‘we’re all in it together’. Those designated ‘poor’ are having to pay the price for those who are truly corrupt by ‘choice. Not one word from you condemning those in power who have wrought misery upon the ‘working classes’ instead cheap ukipian rhetoric about the poor playing the ‘victim’ card, and morons, losers and ‘fat’ people undeserving of any compassion.

      You have also proudly asserted that: ‘I’m not a very moral person when it comes down to it’.

      You have in essence shown yourself completely at ease with an ideological outlook that we in the Independence movement are completely at odds with.

      Why would we vote for those who we oppose on ideological grounds, to ‘govern’ us in an Independent Scotland? Why would we even consider adopting any policy that supports an outlook such as yours when we are striving to ‘escape’ this very state of affairs wherein the poor, the disenfranchised and the ‘working classes’ have been completely marginalised to the point where we see the only route out as Independence?

      We’d be as well just staying in the Union.

      You are not a supporter of Independence, you support entirely the ‘edifice’ that sits at the core of why we wish to alter our relationship with our larger neighbour.

      You’re disingenuous Torynat, those social attitudes surveys don’t suit your agenda, you like the way things are, so why the fuck are you on here, pretending that you are Scottish and an Independence supporter?

      I won’t be ‘moving on’ any time soon Torynat. When we become Independent, your ilk will be no where near any position of policy making in Scotland. Of that I am certain.

    49. heedtracker says:

      Forget the flipflop yoon style politics of our Scotland region, where nothing ever happens, feel the UKOK bullshit in another weekly dose of vote anyone but SNP stuff from red toryThe Guardian

      http://archive.is/6Kza7

      “The reason that Dugdale hadn’t come out previously was not that she was afraid of doing damage to her political career, or of being showered with abuse. It was simply that she wanted to keep her private life private, to have a space where she could escape the tumult of her public life. I can understand that –”

      The only gay in the village is even funnier when it comes to unionists desperate attempts to cling on.

      Or, why doesnt rancid The Graun explore the timing of Dugdales sudden desire to have a private life, by telling the world she’s a lesbian, a few weeks before the elections, in their Scotland region?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrlzaBNgz-M

    50. bugsbunny says:

      K1,

      Are you sure he’s not a certain English Tory commentator on here that had Dave in his name? Can’t remember his full moniker however. Not our Call me Dave obviously, he’s a Patriot. I can’t remember his bloody name. Knowing my luck,it won’t even have Dave in his title. He was always rubbing folk up the wrong way. Haven’t seen him on here in ages.

      Stephen.

    51. Jack Murphy says:

      OT.
      Westminster to launch an Inquiry into Chilcot Iraq War Inquiry Delay !
      Now we’ll have an Inquiry into an Inquiry !

      “………..The hearings concluded in February 2011, but half a decade later the report is still to be released.”

      “…………There is widespread expectation that the report will criticise Tony Blair, who was Prime Minister when Britain decided to join the US in the invasion of Iraq in 2003.”

      “…………Last year Mr Blair gave a qualified apology for “mistakes in the planning” of the war, shortly after it was announced the report would be published in mid-April, in comments decried as a “spin operation” by Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.

      “The delay to [the] Chilcot report is a scandal,” she added.

      The repeated delays have also drawn criticism from the families of soldiers killed in the conflict.”

      The Independent:- http://archive.is/5npCY

    52. K1 says:

      Maybe stephen, but I don’t think it’s ‘sensibledave’, same bombast though 😉

    53. Cherry says:

      @K1

      Telt!

      Well said, put into words my feelings exactly.

      Have some pity tho, these “yoons” we’re born without a heart or conscience. They will keep the SNHS very busy come Independence! 🙂

    54. bugsbunny says:

      KI,

      That’s the Chappie. I seen form written down twice instead of from. He made that mistake as well. Then again, so do I.

      Stephen.

    55. Cactus says:

      Aye, Scotland’s ship sails to the port side for sure. We’re still trying to bypass that massive iceberg. Coincidentally, there is damage to the starboard side that’ll need repairing, heave-ho!
      «««««

      With the political element taken out, here’s a couple of questions people can ask themselves, in relation to how they voted in IndyRef1:

      Q) In one word, how did voting YES to Scotland becoming an independent country make you feel?

      Q) In one word, how did voting NO to Scotland becoming an independent country make you feel?

      The answers to the latter would be very interesting.

      SO, one month (to the day) to go until Scottish National Party day 🙂
      XX

    56. Macart says:

      @Cactus

      Q) In one word, how did voting YES to Scotland becoming an independent country make you feel?

      That’s easy.

      I felt anxious, a little nervous, happy, but most of all, I felt hopeful and excited. An unscripted future, a bit like a blank canvas, or a blank page is full of possibilities. The difference being for a YES vote? The author of that continuing story, for the first time in over three hundred years, would have been us.

    57. Cherry says:

      How did I feel when I voted yes?

      Confident…knowing that I was doing this for my grandchildren and a future for the Scottish people.

      Then after I felt comfortable I’d made the right and only choice, which made me have hope for the future.
      I still believe it’s the only choice.

      SNP X2 EU IN

    58. Papko says:

      Q) In one word, how did voting NO to Scotland becoming an independent country make you feel?

      I felt relieved , after years of debate , the day had arrived and the vote was cast .
      I thought about 1707 and after some “kicking and screaming ” , we adopted the Union and threw our hearts into the idea of Britain . of the Empire , and all the foreign wars ,

      about the “pax Britannica ” , always opposing any power becoming too dominant in Europe , Trafalgar and Waterloo , the charge of the Scots Greys at a pivotal moment .
      And all standing together through thick and thin , indivisible , as one .

      Then the Second WW , aftermath , and the retreat from Empire , the decline of our heavy industry , and modern welfare state , with our modern country , and living standards , unimaginable even a generation ago .

      And I thought , the Union is far from perfect , the British identity in a state of flux , yet what do we face today , that we did not face in the past .

    59. arthur thomson says:

      What Kezia means is that Slab are no more left thinking than rUK and that is the sad truth. The core of Slab is working class, purse mouthed, ‘look at the lovely flooors in the garden’ variety British tories plus a motley collection of sad people who look up to them.

    60. Big Jock says:

      The people who voted no in my office reflect the average no voter. Conservative with a small C. Reluctant to change their job. Terrified of change but moan about current conditions. No life about them just drifting onto retirement. In other words they are happy exisitng not living!

    61. heedtracker says:

      5 April, 2016 at 3:36 pm
      How did I feel when I voted yes?

      I had to stop even contemplating it, it is such extraordinary opportunity for change, to shake off unionist red and blue toryboy rein for good, in a PR democracy, and then enough voted no…

    62. K1 says:

      Aye well complacency is a phenomenon that seems to plague us creatures. If we could change tomorrow to a better future for ‘all’ there’s the challenge and the hope that our Independence brings…

      To ‘relax’ and say – ‘this is just the way things are’, well that’s fine if you ‘are’ ‘comfortable’ but what of those marginalised, what of those born into poverty? There was a chance there were we could have shaped our own destiny, a different one where the continuing rhetoric is not about ‘blaming’ sections of society and by those means of divide and rule maintain an obscene level of inequality and inequity.

      I too was nervous/excited…but I erred on the side of welcoming what lay ahead, trying new models of governance, of wealth distribution, I’m very much for the citizen’s income…we need something to ‘level’ the ground…to dismantle the ideological grip of the ‘politics of envy and greed’ and fear.

      We are a wealthy country, but it is not the fault of those who have been systematically kept down by a London centric governing cabal who have proven over and over again that they really did deliberately set about destroying Scotland’s economy, and took everything for themselves whilst spouting about ‘benefit’ scroungers’ and ‘subsidy junkies’ et al.

      I wanted us to be away from ‘that’ ugly and rotten to the core ‘politics’. With their mouthpieces trumpeting and disseminating these vile lies, gone. Instead we are where we are, but I haven’t moved from ‘wanting’ those potentials acted upon, and I know the only way forward out of this corrupt Union is Independence.

      More determined than ever. Yes till I die.

    63. call me dave says:

      Jim and Tom working together… both siren voices.
      Stuff your ears with popcorn and get the elections dusted.

      SNP x 2

      https://archive.is/J3VTy

      https://archive.is/MTbRh

      PS:
      Cameron was never in China to do a deal for either £25bn or £40bn but if he was it was good business for UKOK.

      Sturgeon was in China for Scotland and only managed a maybe deal for £10bn and that is very bad.

      https://archive.is/6HK4s

    64. shug says:

      If she had and sense she would quit labour now
      What’s his name ran around the country with an irnbru box for months and got no thanks while darling got a peerage
      There will be nothing for her
      A lose lose situation

    65. Jim says:

      Absolutely hilarious piss take:

      h..ps://amp.twimg.com/v/93551339-19ee-4d76-bada-47da0af24620

    66. ronnie anderson says:

      New wan oan me.

      Went fur ah eye test the day Optician says am sufferin from Misty Ein, an so wid you be if you were reading the Chronicles of Kezia every day.

    67. stewartb says:

      This fuss in the media over the MOU with Chinese investors is just downright silly. Although there are always important strategic issues to consider over the nature of inward investment facilitated by the public sector, the Chinese parties to this MOU seem serious and interesting players. What follows is just for background – apologies for length. (By the way, it was assembled in less than 30 minutes research online – so no excuse for even resource strapped journalists!)

      According to its web site: ’SinoFortone (UK) Group is a multi-cultural Joint Venture (JV) between Sinolinks Group and Fortone Group’, two Chinese corporations. Based in London, the SinoFortune UK web site lists amongst its current UK “partners”:

      University of Cambridge
      Kirklees Council
      Birmingham City Council
      Nottingham City Council
      City of Stoke on Trent City Council
      Kent County Council.

      Existing SinoFortone investments in the UK include:

      Crossrail 2 – new rail line linking London, Surrey and Hertfordshire

      Waterside Luxury Village, Cornwall – part of SinoFortone’s stated intention of investing more than £250 million in the tourism infrastructure of the UK, focusing on historic refurbishments and new buildings based within close proximity to London, Edinburgh, The Lake District and Cornwall

      London Paramount – major new theme park in north Kent: Sinofortone intends to invest £3.2bn

      Cambridge South – science park plus 1,200 new homes and a country park, with Jesus College, University of Cambridge

      The HD One – Huddersfield – mixed use urban development combining leisure, entertainment, hospitality and sport with additional specialist retail, office, and residential elements

      Smithfield – Stoke-on-Trent – new commercial business quarter comprising 1.2m sq ft of office, retail and hotel space.

      SinoFortone Group is also investing £2bn in two innovative biomass plants and associated food production facilities in Wales, at Holyhead and Port Talbot “that will create 1,000 jobs and thousands more during the construction phase”. The investment commitment from SinoFortone was confirmed at the start of the recent official visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping to the UK.

      SinoFortone’s delivery partner in these biomass plants is the Orthios Group. The latter’s web site describes the Holyhead development as follows:

      “We are creating a 299 MWe Orthios Energy Centre and Eco Park in Penhros, Holyhead, which will comprise:

      -a 299 MWe biomass power station within the existing consented scheme

      – the world’s largest on-land prawn growing facility (aquaculture)

      – a large soil-less indoor vegetable growing facility (hydroponics)

      – the world’s first home compostable food packaging facility

      – the Combined Food and Power Centre of Excellence, with Bangor University

      – research and development

      – a deep water port jetty for bulk import.

      The energy centre forms the core around which each of the Orthios Eco Park businesses will operate. There will be 5 independent 60 MWe power modules and we will gasify approximately 1.5 million metric tonnes of biomass per year. It is expected that we will be able to provide 650 thousand homes with electricity by 2020. The excess heat and CO2 will be recycled into the Eco Park to be reused for enhancing the cultivation of fish and vegetables.”

      With SinoFortone as a key investor, the longer term aim is to roll out the technology developed in the two power plants in Wales to China and developing countries.

      And notably, the BBC reported in 2015 a spokesman for the Labour-controlled Welsh government stating: “We welcome any further progress on these two projects, which have the potential to create hundreds of jobs and provide a major boost for the local economy.” (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34571043 )

      SinoFortone is also involved in developing new metro systems for both Kuwait and Abu Dhabi.

    68. Macart says:

      @K1 4.12pm

      A very bright fella said recently, ‘Scotland isn’t poor, it has been impoverished. There’s a difference. When you’re impoverished you have resources, you have talents and skills, you have wealth and value, it’s just that someone else gets the benefit of it.’

      He’s not wrong.

      All of that is still waiting on the other side of a YES vote. All of those resources, skills and talent are still here. More importantly is the abundance of potential and possibility. If people want something badly enough, they can make it happen.

    69. David Mills says:

      KD so JC is your secret weapon to prove SNP are not Anti-austerity?
      really, the lead of the UK labour party who’s PLP almost to a man abstained on every recent tory austerity cut vote (thanks to those who opposed these cuts with the SNP). THAT’S your strategy?

    70. andy smith says:

      Just home from work and catching up on posts, morgatron@11:24..egg timers disease… Brilliant !!!

    71. People Carrier says:

      K1 says: 2.35pm 5/4/16

      What s/he said…………

    72. K1 says:

      Aye Macart…I do feel that is true also. If enough of us want it and there are…it’s going to happen.

      A lot of us ‘woke’ from our ‘politically numbed’ slumber pre ref, we’re not going back to sleep…ever. Pins and needles be damned!

    73. mogabee says:

      Open mouth…belly rumble!

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    74. Muscleguy says:

      A lot of you people seem to have watched a different video to the one I watched. Either that or you are hyper sensitive to things that don’t instantly and totally accord to all things Yes as You see them.

      McWhirter does not deny the BBC was biased, he in fact takes some time to explain how and why they were biased because of their reliance on a biased media to set their news agenda. Are you people thick or what?

      Admitting that and saying he finds overall the license fee to be good value is not hypocrisy. He seems to find value elsewhere in the BBC’s output and he is at liberty to do that. In doing that it does not make him a unionist. It makes him the product of his background. As a journalist he sees things differently to you and me.

      I thought the discussion was generally very good. How we get from where we are now in terms of media to a generally consumed media with a genuine plurality of views that is financially viable is a good question.

      How many of you critics pay for the National? I know it is impossible to subscribe online just for the Sunday Herald but you can for the National. Yes, it can be thin, but that is partly because not enough of you people pay for it. I have an online subscription that renews automatically every month until I stop it. It’s pennies, very reasonable. A hard copy or full digital version subscription is more.

      If we want a diverse media we have to pay for it.

    75. ArtyHetty says:

      O/T

      I saw a poll on ‘Third Force News’ earlier today, ‘who will you vote for in May?’ The result, well 77% SNP this afternoon. I did think it might be more leaning towards support for Labour or even Tory, so a pleasant surprise.

    76. NeoconNat says:

      Muscleguy, you make so many stupid points that it’s hard to know where to start.

      MacWhirter’s central point that the independence movement has fragmented is patently ridiculous. We just returned 57 MPs. The polls are suggesting another landslide is on the cards and that support for independence is growing. I could go on and on.

      As for the manufactured question of how we get from a totally discredited media to one that makes an effort towards balance and honest, I don’t know anybody who is asking that question except people in the media.

      Let them keep the rigged media and the lying newspapers. We don’t need them. I hope they keep everything just exactly as it is. They are only talking about change because nobody trusts them; if they can appear to change and engender increased trust then their lies will be effective again.

      As for the National and your subscription, who cares? What do you want, a pat on the back?

      We have the Internet and Wings and each other. It works and nobody can take it away.

      The lies in the run up to the referendum only worked on people who buy newspapers and watch their crap on TV. Worth remembering that.

    77. Andrew Mclean says:

      Neon Tory,
      Please, we were never together!

    78. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      NeoNat said:
      MacWhirter’s central point that the independence movement has fragmented is patently ridiculous. We just returned 57 MPs.

      That’s an invented straw man and your conclusion is absurd. What MacWhirter was actually saying is that the broad Yes movement has largely withered and been subsumed by one political party (the SNP), a big reason being that electoral contests (UKGE followed in fairly short order by ScotGE) have necessarily obliged people to focus on advancing the indy cause through established parties contesting those, of which the SNP is by far the predominant one. Which seems to me an entirely reasonable point to make.

      As to the “57 MPs”, it shouldn’t need pointing out (but apparently still does) that this superficially massive outcome is an artifact of the totally-crocked FPTP electoral system used for the UKGE. It isn’t anywhere an accurate reflection of the degree of support of any of the Unionist parties, even allowing for a further sinking of morale in the meantime. The pseudo-PR voting system for Holyrood will ensure that the Unionists will still likely be around in significant numbers, and we must not lose sight of that. That’s why many folk are urging an SNP x2 vote, even though in some carefully-chosen locales a list vote for the Greens or RISE might actually boost indy in Holyrood.

      After the result is in, we might well have to endure the yoony media boasting that the survival of a lot of SLabs and Tories via the list (and maybe even one or two constituency holds) is some kind of “resurgence” of Unionism and a moral defeat for the SNP!

      And beforehand we still have to see what’s in the SNP’s manifesto about indy2…

    79. NeoconNat says:

      Sutherland, you — like Silver and Macwhirter — are basically cheerleading for the Scottish media and, as I said, it’s only in media circles that I hear of anyone mourning the death of Scotland’s media.

      This is why nobody, again, except in those circles, got even slightly interested in or excited about the BBC Scottish 6 stuff that came out recently.

      Let me put this as bluntly as possible: we have no desire or interest in replacing one set of lying bastards with another. The trust is gone, we have unsubscribed and moved on, and we won’t be coming back — Jackie Byrd wearing a tartan outfit won’t work.

      As for the interpretation of what Macwhirter calls a “collapse” when he discusses the post-Indy Independence movement; he essentially says that the SNP capitalised on this collapse. So, the SNP capitalised on the collapse of something that the SNP was part of and inspired? I guess you need to go to the good schools to understand that crippled logic.

      Getting back to reality, there was no collapse. There is no meaningful dichotomy between the SNP and the Independence movement. And if you look at it like that, election results and polls since September 2014 suggest the movement has bloomed and grown, not collapsed.

      Now before anyone gets silly and gets on their high horses or unicorns, yes, I understand that the size and shape of the SNP does not exactly match the size and shape of the “Independence movement” ( or “Yes Movement” if you prefer), but to say there is a huge overlap is to put it mildly. It isn’t required to fit perfectly like some impossible glove, just as, by the same token, not all leftists vote Labour and not all Tories vote Conservative.

      That said, trying to distinguish between the left in England and the Labour Party, or Conservatism and the Tory Party, makes as little sense as what you and Machirter are doing in trying to distinguish between the Independence movement and the SNP.

      I can only assume where I’m faced with that sort of twisted logic that this is yet another attempt to put a negative spin on something that those of us in the Independence movement and the SNP see in nothing but positive terms. Broadly speaking, we are happy with where we are, where we are going, and the way things are panning out.

      Time and so many other factors are on our side — nothing is collapsing except the pants of few over-the-hill ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s who are desperately trying to persuade us they are still relevant. They aren’t.

    80. Ruby says:

      NeoconNat says:

      We have the Internet and Wings and each other. It works and nobody can take it away.

      The lies in the run up to the referendum only worked on people who buy newspapers and watch their crap on TV. Worth remembering that.

      Ruby replies

      If people & Wings were to stop reading newspapers & watching TV then where would we get our information from?

    81. NeoconNat says:

      Ruby, the answer is obvious. Alternative media, like Wings and other sources. There isn’t a day goes by where several links to good sources are not posted on here.

      And I didn’t suggest Wings stop anything — I said we have Wings.

      I know a lot of people watch BBC News etc., & the mainstream media, with a deep sense of skepticism, thinking they can filter out the lies and somehow glean something from it. I doubt if they can; I know I don’t have the time, brains, or inclination to do so, and I don’t watch it myself except very rarely.

      You really don’t need to watch it. Try it.

    82. Ruby says:

      NeoconNat says:
      6 April, 2016 at 10:00 am

      Ruby, the answer is obvious. Alternative media, like Wings and other sources.

      Ruby replies

      Where does the alternative media get their info from?

      You say ‘You really don’t need to watch it. Try it.’

      What makes you think I watch TV? You might want to take care you don’t come across as patronising!

    83. Ruby says:

      NeoconNat says:

      I know a lot of people watch BBC News etc., & the mainstream media, with a deep sense of skepticism, thinking they can filter out the lies and somehow glean something from it. I doubt if they can; I know I don’t have the time, brains, or inclination to do so, and I don’t watch it myself except very rarely.

      Ruby replies

      I was going to suggest that you might want to watch more TV and make an effort to filter out the lies but if you don’t the time, the brains or the inclination to do that then it would be a waste of time.

    84. Ruby says:

      Fact check 676!

      How many more fact checks before everyone is convinced that Kezia talks ‘complete crap?’

      According to ‘The Herald’ her ex-boss has not paid his Labour membship fees!

      Jim Murphy joins Tory party????

    85. Ruby says:

      FAO NeoconNat

      Ooops typo in earlier post

      I was going to suggest that you might want to watch more TV and make an effort to filter out the lies but if you don’t have the time, the brains or the inclination to do that then it would be a waste of time.

    86. NeoconNat says:

      Ruby, earlier, though, you said “If people & Wings were to stop reading newspapers & watching TV then where would we get our information from?”

      From the quote above I naturally concluded you were one of the people you alluded to who were dependent on TV. You actually use the word “we”; hardly patronising, then, to discuss on the basis that you rely on TV for news.

      You then ask: “Where does the alternative media get their info from?”

      A variety of sources which most likely will include the mainstream media. That’s healthy, the more sources the better without reliance on any single source.

      But that’s a full-time job. I don’t have the time to trawl the world looking for alternative slants on day-to-day stories. That’s where Wings and Rev Stuart come in, along with other analysts. The job they do is highly skilled and very time-consuming.

      It also takes intelligence and the ability to decode words and some people are simply better in that regard than others.

    87. Ruby says:

      NeoconNat says:

      But that’s a full-time job. I don’t have the time to trawl the world looking for alternative slants on day-to-day stories. That’s where Wings and Rev Stuart come in, along with other analysts. The job they do is highly skilled and very time-consuming.

      It also takes intelligence and the ability to decode words and some people are simply better in that regard than others.

      Ruby replies

      What makes you so certain that the info presented by Wings & other alternative media are correct?

      You are putting quite a burden of responsibility onto Wings!

      Wings does an excellent job of making people aware that what the read in the papers is not always 100% true and that stories can be distorted to suit the political agenda of the journalist/their paymaster.

      Once you are aware of this I think you should be able to read the MSM & watch TV and give some thought to what you are being told. Basically you should be doing your own analysis.

      Wings can’t cover every news stories for you. You need to be alert!

    88. NeoconNat says:

      Ruby: “What makes you so certain that the info presented by Wings & other alternative media are correct?”

      Correct doesn’t mean anything. And Wings is unashamedly biased, if you think “correct” might mean unbiased.

      I trust Wings will give me an alternative viewpoint though — it doesn’t do that in a vacuum, it does it by looking at news that is current, dissecting it, and presenting an alternative slant. That isn’t to say Wings or other sources rely on the mainstream media or are only responsive to it; we quite often see issues covered here that are not covered in the mainstream media at all.

      There are infinite ways of interpreting anything; one for every living soul. In history, which is more my comfort zone, you find they are more up front with that sort of stuff whereas in current affairs and politics the tendency is to purport to speak the truth from some impossible objective standpoint — ‘the omniscient narrator” stance is everywhere.

      Wings doesn’t do that.

      You then say: “I think you should be able to read the MSM & watch TV and give some thought to what you are being told. Basically you should be doing your own analysis… Wings can’t cover every news stories for you. You need to be alert!”

      I already said that I don’t have time, the brains, skills, or the inclination to do that. Why devote yourself to listening to a proven liar then expend untold energy and effort trying to work out how he is lying to you? Better to focus on your own truths than your enemy’s lies, at least some of the time.

      I actually stopped watching BBC news for dental reasons. I found myself grinding my teeth constantly. I’m starting to think you might be a dentist, Ruby, with a vested interest in all this.

    89. Ruby says:

      NeoconNat

      I can’t figure out why you are posting on Wings!
      You are getting a high reading on my ITD.
      ITD = Inbuilt Troll Dectector.

      Where are you going with your argument?

      Are you suggesting that Wings is a place for people who like you don’t have the time, the brains or the skills to dissect a news article. ie Cult followers?

      From what I gather from reading posts on Wings the posters here read all the newspapers & watch TV and are able to spot the lies. The thing they don’t do is hand over any money to the newspapers or the BBC. They also put up archived links so that the newspaper doesn’t benefit from ‘pay per click’

      I think you would be better off posting on ‘The Scotsman’ I think you are wasting your time on Wings.

    90. NeoconNat says:

      Well, the civility didn’t last long, did it?

      Now I get to respond to you in equal measure, you realise you are dealing with someone who can run rings around you, and others chip in and make out I am bad and started the insults.

      “I can’t figure out why you are posting on Wings!”

      Doesn’t surprise me, you seem pretty thick. But I didn’t know my posting on Wings rested on your ability to figure anything out?

      “You are getting a high reading on my ITD.”

      Why, because I took you seriously for a few fleeting moments? Actually, you might have a case there. Again, though, who made you God and why do you think I want to hear about your ITD or any other facet of your unimportant life?

      “Where are you going with your argument?”

      It’s at least as much your argument as it is mine. For the record, I didn’t regard it as an argument; for me it was more of a sort of humouring process.

      I don’t watch TV news, buy newspapers, or subscribe in any routine way to what you call current affairs and the mainstream media. Nobody can make me, not even an intellectual giant like you with your elaborate theories about trolls and cult groups.

      “I think you would be better off posting on ‘The Scotsman’ I think you are wasting your time on Wings.”

      And you’d be better not posting at all, in my humble opinion. Might I suggest you read more and type less? Get out occasionally too, take part.

    91. Ruby says:

      🙂

      tee hee!

    92. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      NeoconNat, no-one in this forum needs to be told about bias in the MSM, but MacWhirter is one of the good guys. He’s just stating the blindingly obvious, so why you are targeting him in particular I really don’t know. You are either extraordinarily paranoid or some kind of agent provocateur on a divide-and-conquer special op to convince people that the Nats truly are the “one party state” people of Unionist propaganda.

    93. NeoconNat says:

      Sutherland, I’m not targeting anyone in particular. My response to you above addressed several issue that you previously raised.

      I’m not paranoid or an agent provocateur. And frankly, if it was my goal to divide and conquer in here I wouldn’t be attacking the media, MacWhirter, and your defence of them since the majority here probably agree with me on all 3 fronts. Hardly divisive.

      You’re doing what so many others in here do when faced with overwhelming arguments, basically calling me a troll. You just joined the ranks of Ruby and a few others who henceforth shall be ignored.

    94. Wee G says:

      I see the Tag-Team of Kes and Ruthie are at it again standing shoulder to shoulder.



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