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Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, Part 678

Posted on February 22, 2017 by

There’s an interesting story in the Herald today about Scottish Labour’s finances.


It reveals that the party’s income from donations plunged from £600,000 in 2015 to £100,000 last year, which in the article is blamed on Jeremy Corbyn’s UK leadership (even though Dugdale opposed him in the leadership election).

But there were a few comments in the piece that we thought needed scrutiny.

The article says this of the branch office’s numbers:

“Despite a recent membership rise to 21,000, Scottish Labour is now tipped to come third behind the Tories in May’s council poll too.”

Now, that’s a questionable statement in itself. At the beginning of October 2015 the Scotsman was suggesting that Scottish Labour might have as many as 29,000:


Then-leader Jim Murphy had said at the end of 2014 that membership was “about 20,000” rather than 13,500. However, by the end of the following year the Financial Times said it was 19,000:


It’s therefore hard to say whether a claimed figure of 21,000 represents an increase or not. However, what we know from Scottish Labour’s own published accounts is that its income from membership and subscriptions in 2015 was just £120,000.

(A figure very much in line with the norm – every year back to 2010 has been between £107K and £120K, and in fact all but one year were between £113K and £120K.)


If we take a middle position and assume there were 20,000 members in that year, it would represent income of just £6.02 per member. Which is rather odd, as standard membership is £48 a year with concessions at £24.


Even if for the sake of argument we assume EVERY member is on the half-price rate, that should still produce a figure of £480,000 a year from 20,000 members – almost exactly FOUR TIMES what actually came in.

The Herald story continues:

“Asked just before the Holyrood election how much her party would spend, Ms Dugdale said it would be “substantially less” than in 2011, with ‘more small scale fundraising’ on an ‘Obama model of regular small donations, rather than have one or two big donors or funders’.

A Scottish Labour spokesperson said: “While the SNP is funded by bus tycoons and lottery winners, Labour is mainly funded by the membership and donations of working people.”

We know from the Electoral Commission website that Brian Souter, the bus tycoon in question, hasn’t actually donated to the SNP since 2014 (and most recently donated to the Lib Dems), and the lottery winners – Chris and Colin Weir – both last donated in early 2015, almost two years ago.




But even in that year, when the Weirs between them kicked in a whopping £1m (out of total donations of £1.53m), it was dwarfed by membership income of £2.7m.


And what of Scottish Labour’s claims to be “mainly funded by the membership and donations of working people”? Well, if we look at the published Electoral Commission data for 2016, we get some interesting findings:



Because out of total donations of around £290,000 a thumping £238,000 – more than 82% – came under “Public Funds – Assistance for Parties (Scottish Parliament)”.

We’re not actually sure if that’s Scottish Government or UK government money, but either way it’s from taxpayers and it’s a hell of a stretch to call it “donations of working people”. We don’t know about you, readers, but nobody asked us if we wanted our tax money to go to Scottish Labour, and we know what we’d have said if they had.

So let’s just recap on the claims in those short quotes:

(1) “[Scottish] Labour is mainly funded by the membership and donations of working people” LIE. In fact the great bulk of its money (twice as much as it gets from members) comes from taxpayers, who get no say in their “donations”.

(2) “The SNP is funded by bus tycoons and lottery winners” – LIE. Nobody matching either of those descriptions has donated to the SNP for years, and even when they did their contributions were far eclipsed by ordinary members. It might have been true for a single year (2014, when there was the small matter of a referendum on), but it’s certainly not true now.

(3) “Scottish Labour has 21,000 members” – that looks an awful lot like a LIE. If it does, they’re getting away with paying spectacularly discounted membership rates, around one-eighth of the advertised price.

So that’s about the average Scottish Labour truth strike rate, then.


Some previous Kezia Dugdale Fact Checks: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]

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  1. 22 02 17 19:56

    Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, Part 678 | speymouth

140 to “Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, Part 678”

  1. Labour deregulated the buses and is funded from political Tame Union levies and the English Coop that stole the SCWS.

  2. heedtracker says:

    Looking forward to seeing these kinds of reports in Scottish 9, or whatever the gimps are calling their garbage now.

  3. Sandy says:

    I just imagine the feeling of glee you get when a kezia dugdale ‘fact’ pops up and you get to check it. Rings a smile to my face. Keep up the good work, these are comedy gold.

  4. Iain More says:

    Totally OT maybe!

    In relation to the BBCs announcement I had to call out the Fire Brigade as every Bullshit detector in the house exploded, even the mithers budgie knows Bullshit when he hears it as that was the first word he uttered after hearing that announcement about the creation of an underfunded lickspittle Yoon Channel. I am surprised the Yoons didn’t scream that their new propaganda machine was needing more cash.

    I guess Kez will be happy that she will have extra propagandists working on behalf of the BLiS and the Union, who needs donations when the sap heids paying the TV TAX pays for the Yoon klaxons on PQ.

  5. Jim Mitchell says:

    Kez, The gift that keeps on giving.

  6. heedtracker says:

    And England, Graun says,

    Frances Perraudin North of England reporter


    Labour is clapped-out banger on bricks, according to Stoke focus group
    Only three out of 10 Stoke Central residents who voted Labour in 2015 told focus group they would definitely do so again this week

  7. Walter Scott says:

    Scottish labour are such a slow moving lumbering target that it’s almost not very sporting to take aim.

  8. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    I have to ask:

    “What is the point of Scottish Labour?”


  9. heedtracker says:

    “What is the point of Scottish Labour?”


    It gives BBC vote SLab Scotland something to lie to us about, over and over…

  10. gerry parker says:

    The brand is so toxic that Labour councilors are jumping ship and standing as “independents” in the May elections.
    Will be interesting to see where they get their funds from, and how the” I’ve voted Labour all my life” voters view their betrayal of the party.

  11. Capella says:

    They could have a lot of students, youths 14 – 19 yrs, and armed forces personnel @ £3 per year.
    Didn’t they have a reduced rate in the run up to the General Election, followed by a purge of new members in the run up to the leadership election?

  12. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Kez and her Party are an irrelevance in every sense of the word.

    Kez is in favour of Trident, the Scottish members are against it.

    Jezza is against Trident, the English members are for it.

    Clear as mud!

  13. ephemeraldeception says:

    In order to have more consistency cant we use an equivalence formula to state how many members the donations represent.

    So, to clarify. Have a similar measure such as FTE,BOE (full time equivalent, Barrels of oil equivalent). In this case its FME – full member equivalent.

    So just divide the donations (120k) by the full member standard price (48). 120000/48 = 2500.

    Poor old Labour in Scotland branch has only 2500 Full member equivalents. Should be a headline!

  14. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    IMO Scottish Labour’s ONLY chance of survival is for them to elect a new Pro-Indy Leader after the May elections and then come out full-on in favour of Scottish Independence.

    Who that new leader would be, who knows.

  15. jimnarlene says:

    Is there any way of stopping my tax, paying for SLab? Serious question.

  16. Robert Graham says:

    Poor Soul can’t help herself never knows when to Zip it .
    I wonder if shes in the right Profession ( no laughing at the back ) I wonder if she isnt suited to something less Stressful , oh well never mind , she will be getting it in the back soon just like the other ones , I can see the Queue forming right now .

  17. Tam Jardine says:

    So are we talking about the figure being closer to, what 5,000? Less maybe? I know many will pay the bare minimum membership but over the years you get hit with incentives and end up increasing what you kick in- that has certainly been my experience.

    Do we seriously think there are not labour party members in Scotland punting in £100-£200 a year? There must be. SO for every member that pays £150 the total number of members drops.

    Now- we have been here before with affiliates or labour social club members who don’t actually pay membership being counted in the total but if we know the figure is £120,000 then 5000 would be the absolute maximum. If roughly half of those paid the full fee it drops to less than 3,500 members.

    Can that be the kind of number we are actually talking about? Seems guy thin?

  18. Tam Jardine says:

    …. so either the membership is somewhere south of 5,000 or the biscuit tin has been getting seriously raided.

  19. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    How the mighty have fallen.

    Scottish Labour used to have the majority of MPs, the majority of MSPs, they ran the majority of Councils, where in power at Westminster, they even ran the multi-billion pound funded Strathclyde Regional Council.

    You just need to see the nick they left Scotland in before the SNP took control and you find the answer as to why they collapsed so suddenly.

    For the first time Scots had a real choice, a real alternative to Scottish Labour.

    And now there is no going back.

  20. stewartb says:


    Looking forward to watching Hibs vs Hearts on BBC TV tonight.

    Oh sorry, its the wrong Cup competition -its not an FA Cup match involving minor league Lincoln or Sutton. So no chance!

  21. Tam Jardine says:


    Good idea- so for the SNP you have £2,743,413 divided by… how much is a standard full membership?

  22. Famous15 says:

    Talking money £30M is being returned to us in Scotland for news,drama etc. Reporting Scotland finds ordinary people in the street to comment. One lady says she is Brittish so no television for Scotland and aman says what will they show “Mrs McDougalls cat goes missing or someone stole my bike”

    Later the Rikki Fulton tribute actor talks about the script for IMJolly being held surprisingly by the RSPCA when in fact the script was left to the SSPCA who work in Scotland,the RSPCA do not. Important to know. (The actor may have got it right but the subtitles did not…checked)

    Your point caller? The above attitudes and knowledge about Scotland screams out for the end of cultural imperialism and a fairer sum of £90M being spent in Scotland.

    Really liked the SNP party political broadcast BTW.

  23. frogesque says:

    @Tam Jardine. 7.13

    Be careful with assumptions, I only pay £5 pa. (pensioner’s rate)

    SNP are pretty open about membership nos. though. I expect current figures to be given during Spring Conf.

    SLab on the other hand, it’s anyone’s guess and I currently have four fingers and thumb on my other hand.

  24. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Well, well. Was it brilliant SNP Tension Strategy wot done it, or was it good old Labour incompetence? Un petit peu des deux?

    And are we seeing old ‘Labour’ or ‘New Labour’ fizzle out in Scotland here? I forget.

  25. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Famous 15

    The actor being interviewed on the IM Jolly piece clearly said the rights to the IM Jolly scripts were held by the SSPCA.

    I don’t know about the subtitles, however. But, shit happens.

  26. Dorothy Devine says:

    If BBBC Scotland is getting a new channel , does that not let them concentrate on SNP Bad with both barrels?

  27. Arbroath1320 says:

    Just to give wee Kez a fair crack of the whip I think we should take Labour’s “claim of 21,000 members and split it three ways (because they have three payment options 😉 )

    This leads me to deduce that:

    1) 7,000 members paying full membership of £4 p.m. (£48 p.a.) resulting in total donations of £336,000

    2) 7,000 members paying Student membership of £3 p.m. (£36 p.a.) resulting in total membership of £252,000

    3) 7,000 members paying reduced membership of £2 p.m. (£24 p.a.) resulting in total membership of £168,000

    This would result in a total income of £756,000. Clearly this is not correct because the accounts shown by Stu above show only a total of £120,479 being raised from membership and subscription fees.

    I can only draw the conclusion that Labour have a maximum number of either:

    1) 2500 full members
    2) 3347 student members
    3) 5020 reduced membership members

    I apologise in advance for the obvious mistakes in my deductions made in this post. 😉

  28. Donald MacKenzie says:

    The problem is that you keep introducing facts into the argument. Everything would be fine if it wasn’t for those damned facts.

  29. galamcennalath says:

    The Labour Party in Scotland now only exists through Trade Union support and their charmed status with the BBC. They have virtually no grassroots.

    Any town on a Saturday and your are likely to see an SNP stall and activists. I have never seen anything from Labour for a long time.

    Famous15 says:

    the SSPCA who work in Scotland,the RSPCA do not

    Indeed. The RSPCA taking donations in Scotland (from Wills etc) has been going on for years. I have always been certain the individuals giving don’t realise the ‘countries of activity’ situation. Still English animals don’t actually know they are English and are just as deserving.

  30. galamcennalath says:

    New BBC channel?

    A Scottish channel and ‘Scottish Six’ should have been set up at the start of devolution to fulfil a state broadcaster’s role to inform.

    Now? The way the BBC behave either would now be just another conduit for anti statehood propaganda.

    Murder and fitbaw… don’t worry your little Jock heads about other things, London will do your thinking for you!

  31. stewartb says:


    Former Tory Minister for International Development, Andrew Mitchell just now on Channel 4 News talking about famine and ongoing civil war in South Sudan.

    He has referred a couple of times to the contribution and influence of Norway – yes that small, independent, northern European country playing a valued part in international diplomacy and the provision of aid.

  32. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Capella @ 18:51,

    It’s certainly plausible that BLiS put on a net 2,000 pro-Corbyn members on top of a membership of 19,000 via the “bargain offer” but after the post-offer cull.

    But nothing much seems to add up whichever way you look at it. The quoted increase in membership income from 2015 to 2016 is £3,912, which with 4000 new members wouldn’t even amount to an additional £1 each, or with 2000 new members wouldn’t amount to even £2 each. It’s equivalent to 1304 “cheap-rate” new members, or a stupendous 163 “half-rate” new members.

    But that’s net, of course. There may have been more new “cheap-rate” members while a lot of existing “full-rate” members went out the door.

    Meanwhile, post 2016 ScotGE, financial support from Parliament must presumably be less, assuming it’s calculated pro-rata on MSP numbers…

  33. Effijy says:

    So Labour are again Lying about Lying when telling Lies!

    Why don’t they make everything that they say “Top Secret”
    like the McCrone Report and their Membership numbers in Scotland?

    Heard EBC Radio Shortbread Spokesperson delight in announcing a new Scottish TV Digital Channel that will reflect better their Charter to maintain a United Kingdom??

    I was sorry to hear that they are spending more money on “Scottish” Programmes.
    Just how much propaganda can the Unionist produce in one Channel?

    The EBC are a million miles away from reflecting the views of the Scottish people and are completely incapable of ever doing so with Union Jack Glasses on.

    I must have seen and heard 50 EBC reports all displaying their blind bias for the Union, but not 1 who showed their
    allegiance to Scotland.

    If Indy Ref 2 is polling around 50/50, how on earth are they supposed to be reflecting Scottish opinion?

    The EBC of course refuse to say how many Scottish TV License holders that they have and how many have cancelled
    them. Maybe that is “Top Secret” Information too?
    Better not let the Scots know! No news here!

    What chance of them playing the National Anthem at the end
    of their broadcast.
    I have a Flower of Scotland CD that they can borrow?

  34. HandandShrimp says:

    It may be that membership numbers are boosted through Trade Union affiliated membership.

    Union members can opt out. Those members that retain affiliated status can vote in leadership elections etc. The Union contributes to the Labour Party not the individual member.

    Labour’s number of direct members in Scotland is probably pretty low. They really seem to struggle to get boots on the ground for elections and the like and were involving members from England in recent votes in Scotland.

    Quite what the situation in England is now I am not sure. Stoke seems to be a bit of a slow motion car crash from all the candidates and the Guardian had a feature on party vehicles and people from Stoke described the Labour vehicle as a wreck up on bricks, the Tories as Rolls mowing the poor down and UKIP as a tank with a St George’s flag.

  35. Conan the Librarian says:

    Surely that headline should be “Begging for change?”

  36. Thomas Valentine says:

    Scientologists claim to have a growing membership, also that they already have just tons of members nobody can see or who’s existence they refuse to prove. Just like Scottish Labour. Perhaps Scottish Labour has a Leah Remini out there somewhere.

  37. Thomas Valentine says:

    Seen Wings twitter feed.
    Since I am sure Labour monitors twitter I am now waiting for Dugdale to compare herself with Sophie Scholl.

  38. Marcia says:

    In a few days the Rev will raise more money in a couple of hours what Labour couldn’t raise last year.

    We are not getting the Scottish Six, the sods have made the new channel start at 7. 🙂

  39. Marcia says:

    Thomas Valentine

    Sophie Scholl had conviction.

  40. Andy-B says:

    Hang on a minute, why is the tax payer subsidising Labour’s Scottish branch office?

  41. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath @ 19:52,

    All those of us who wanted to give the BBC one last chance to prove they could deliver something relevant with a “Scottish Six” have just been proven sadly deluded.

    It’s the story of the Smith Commission and the Supreme court all over again. You would think that our colonial masters in London would learn from previous mistakes, but the different branches of the Empire all seem to be locked into the same denial of reality. And the BBC above all are supposed to have “the pulse of the people”, are they not? =mocking laugh=

    The BBC Scotland is history now. WGD is right. It’s time to get an SBC of our own, and channel all our public subscription power to it.

  42. starlaw says:

    BBC opening new talkdown programme for Jockland. It will of course be managed from London.
    Nothing much will change, different noise perhaps and some clones we have never seen before but it will be same old Londonness that will shine through.

  43. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Conan the Librarian @ 20:08

    Or possibly even “Begging for no-change”…(!)

  44. Tam Jardine says:


    Yeah- I know some people pay less than full membership rates for SNP too (and quite right). EphemereralD is suggesting a way of measuring slab membership against snp in a way that IS comparable. I trust SNP figure 100% and slab figures 0% so he/she does give a novel way of comparing like for like. We have to take the figures we know to get the figure we don’t know- slab membership.

    Look at it another way- total membership paid in 2015 was SNP £2743,413 and for slab it was £120,479. SNP membership paid was 22.77x that of slab.

    The average SNP member kicked in £23.83 per year. Some only joined in December, some pay more, some pay less so we are looking at the average.

    If slab members paid the same average fee we would be talking 5,055 members.

    Now of course we know that is a huge leap assuming the average slab member pays an identical to the average SNP member so lets look at the wider labour party.

    According to a Commons briefing the UK Labour membership fees for 2015 totalled £9,530,000.

    So if we consider the membership of UK labour at the end of 2015 to be 388,000 excluding affiliates and registered supporters (who will make up part of the £9.53 million we arrive at a figure of £24.56 per member. If we calculate average membership based on members, affiliates and registered supporters circa 500,000 the average drops to £19.06.

    So if the contribution by slab members is within this large range of £19.06- £24.56 you are talking a membership of between 4,900 and 6,300.

    Now the same document gives membership data including revenues for the Green Party (£16.19 average for 2015), Plaid Cymru (£19.96) and UKIP (£24) so it is not a stretch to believe that the average membership of slab is similar to both labour and these other parties, especially when £24 is the minimum membership.

    So I am calling it at 5,000 – 5,500

  45. Spot on, Stu

    Gerry Hassan did a similar examination about four years ago and suggested that income from memberships pointed to the Labour party in Scotland having about 6,000 members. They have a lot fewer now. My suspicion is that they will be lucky to have 4000 fully paid Labour members in Scotland. I have been told that branches have folded in many areas and that routinely trade unions which are affiliated to the Labour Party have their memberships added to Labour totals as also membership of social clubs. My wife,a member of the SNP since the 1960s was voting in Labour elections in the 1990s because of her trade union membership.

  46. findlay farquaharson says:

    what a rotten to the core group of individuals they are, im luvin watchin them die, the more painful the better

  47. However the Herald story from Ton Gordon indicates one thing. Tom Gordon is not, as I once thought, a Labour hack. He is an establishment hack and operating to the establishment agenda of replacing Labour as the saviour of the Union in Scotland with the Tories. Sadly Kezia doesn’t realise the masters she is dancing for have thrown her overboard.

    The question is when will the remains of Labour in the Scottish parliament waken up to their plight.

  48. crazycat says:

    @ jimnarlene at 6.57 and Andy-B at 8.27
    Financial Assistance to Non-Government Groups

    To be eligible, a party may have no more Ministers or Junior Ministers than one fifth of the total number of Ministers and Junior Ministers within the Scottish Government. An eligible party is entitled to an annual sum based on the number of members of the Parliament who are connected to the party, and the Assistance Order makes provision for annual up-rating of this sum.

    So, to avoid funding them, either they have to be the major player in government (with taxpayer funding of a different sort) or booted out altogether.

    The funding is supposed to

    provide assistance for opposition parties (link: by making payments to registered political parties in the Parliament “for the purpose of assisting members of the Parliament who are connected with such parties to perform their Parliamentary duties.”

  49. crazycat says:

    I shold have added that this assistance is the equivalent of “Short Money” at Westminster.

  50. crazycat says:

    I should have proof-read properly before submitting, and also stated that the SNP receives Short Money; a vastly increased sum after the 2015 election.

  51. mike cassidy says:

    Electoral Commission information on the public funds available to political parties.

    And a breakdown of both public and private funding.

    Is it safe to presume that Scottish Labour’s public funding is the pocket money they receive from the real Labour Party’s public funding?

  52. Phronesis says:

    ‘Self- deception once yielded to, all other deceptions follow naturally more and more’ Thomas Carlyle

    The UK union is a palimpsest of political statements contained in weighted tomes that have tried to constantly erase the basic truths that Scotland is capable of self-government and is economically viable .

    Despite the constant reiteration of Scotland’s apparent inferiorities we are now on the cusp of independence. An autonomous Scotland will prevail.Its citizens have engaged with a YES movement that has mobilised deliberation.Much positive energy went into Indyref1 – the public was encouraged to participate in political forums, educational meetings and rallies.The result was an energised, balanced campaign the length and breadth of the country which encouraged all diversity of opinion to reach a consensus through the exchange of arguments.

    In doing so the truth of Scotland’s capabilities has been uncovered and any political party who is still trying to write over the truth will find itself a soon- to- be-forgotten footnote in Scottish politics as a new democracy takes shape.

  53. crazycat says:

    @ mike cassidy

    Is it safe to presume that Scottish Labour’s public funding is the pocket money they receive from the real Labour Party’s public funding?

    I think not, at least not all of it. They have an entitlement related to the number of MSPs.

  54. Giving Goose says:

    Re the BBC, I caught the evening BBC Shortbread news about the new Scottish channel.
    A quick drop into x3 random people on the street to get their reaction.

    X1 waffled about news covering Mrs Macs cat – code for Scotland doesn’t have news worth broadcasting and is crap.

    X2 was a woman who was British then Scottish, therefore only wanted news from the imperial capital or something incoherent like that.

    X3 guy I can’t remember.

    But the point was made; according to public opinion Scotland is shite and Scottish news is shite and there shouldn’t be shite Scottish telly.

    God Save the queen.
    Hail (Heil) to London domination ’cause Scotland is shite.
    Vote No.
    Vote Labour/Tory (same thing of course).
    SNP bad.
    Scotland is shite (again).

    The BBC are so predictable.

    I’m so glad I’m not a snivelling, arse crawling unionist. It must be an empty existence having no self respect!

  55. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    I see that “Scottish” Labour has a category “campaign income” in their declaration that the SNP lacks. Would I be right in thinking that represents the Labour Party’s internal equivalent of the Barnett Formula…?

    …You know, the thing that makes them “Better Together”…?

  56. Brian MacLeod says:

    The reality that Labour is facing is it cannot even get candidates to stand.

  57. Iain More says:


    I couldn’t help but notice the twitter tweets and that letter about Yoons not liking to be called Yoons. Poor wee thin skinned sensitive souls. Would they prefer something beginning with Q?

  58. Gray says:

    How much of their income is political levies from the unions?

  59. sinky says:

    This from Christopher Silver is well worth a read.

    With the aim of putting today’s news in context I’ve uploaded an extract on the BBC from my book on Scottish media

  60. Fred says:

    @ Phronesis….good post.

  61. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Re. Sophie Scholl and German resistence in WW2

    Just down the road from me there used to live an ex Major of the Wehrmacht who was every bit as brave as Oskar Schindler (Schindler’s List), if not more so as he would have been executed immediately being an active soldier at the time.

    A German military camp near Darmstadt is named after him now.
    Plus various other honours at the university etc.

  62. Legerwood says:

    What happened to the idea Kezia Dugdale had for all Labour MSPs to donate £10,500 each to find her political office?

    If this happened, does any of the income to the Labour Party relate back to that money?

  63. crazycat says:

    @ Gray

    Based on the last two illustrations (lists of donations) above, the total from Trade Unions is £30,372 (plus a few pence).

    Are those purely political levy payments? I don’t know – for some reason £590 is a popular amount, from several different unions, so not just a multiple of the membership of a particular union.

  64. Clootie says:

    …so probably a membership of around 5000 at best.
    I wonder how many are Labour for Independence supporters?

  65. Cactus says:

    Neu Scotland.

    Scotland, with da EU.

    Kezia, yer still a can’t.. yer still a no can’t do.

    Scotland is a place that I Love.

    Daisy, it’s ur turn..

  66. ian m says:

    I have long believed that if the Labour Party want to turn things around they should declare for Independence.The new Scotland will have room for a party of the left when the SNP step down and Labour will probably pick up some former SNP ministers which will give them some decent politicians for their team.

    O/T Youtube It seems that it is mainly the haters who post the various political clips, as a result we see headlines like
    “Derek Mackay train wreck interview with Andrew Neil”
    “He never answered the question” and the like.What this is doing is creating the same impression as newspaper headlines, SNP bad
    WE need to post these clips to at least tell the truth of the clips

  67. TheWasp says:

    I was canvassed today by my local green party candidate. A very nice young chap and we had a good chat. I explained that I wanted to remove the red/blue Tory coalition from running my council, so I would be voting SNP across the board.
    The green guy wasn’t fazed by this, and told me she it was four seat ward, that a vote for greens would actually have a better chance of blocking the two Tory parties as the SNP were a show in for a guaranteed two seats. He said that on the doorstep he is being told labour are going to be destroyed in May

  68. Dr Ew says:

    As we know, Labour’s accounting methods for membership numbers have been pretty dubious for years, but in this instance it’s possible your analysis is flawed, Stu.

    The 21,000 figure could conceivably correlate with the £120k receipts as the year in question is 2015, when new members could sign up for £1 during the period of the (first) leadership race eventually won by Corbyn.

    Apparently their membership surged to over 350,000 plus across the UK, or so it was reported. Folk will recall the many complaints from Blairites and others who complained about both these bargain basement fees and lack of scrutiny of those joining, and whose number we know included existing members of the Tories, SWP, Respect and Greens who all voted seemed to want to vote for Corbyn. Presumably Scotland would have seen some proportionate increase but of course would have little to show by way of receipts.

  69. Cactus says:

    Just to reiterate this at this point in this space time..


  70. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    TheWasp @ 23@06,

    What your green canvasser was getting at, I believe, was that if you add any green candidate to the end of your list, a fraction of your preference may eventually percolate through to them and help hold off a unionist, on the fairly certain assumption that at least some of the SNP standing will get elected. The higher each pro-SNP vote, the more of your lower preferences will percolate down. Likewise, if any of the least-popular SNP candidates get knocked out because they accumulate insufficient preferences from others, a greater proportion of your vote will then transfer to a green, thus making it less likely that a unionist will overtake them and win.

    Anyways round, adding any other known pro-indy candidate(s) to the end of your preferences (and no unionist candidate, obvs.) will always tend to work against the opposition. No preference, no influence!

    A no-lose situation, in fact, that yessers of all persuasions ought to understand way better.

  71. Legerwood says:

    Legerwood says:
    22 February, 2017 at 10:32 pm
    “”What happened to the idea Kezia Dugdale had for all Labour MSPs to donate £10,500 each to find her political office?

    If this happened, does any of the income to the Labour Party relate back to that money?””


    That should be ‘fund her political officer’s. Although given the state of Labour and the hapless Ms Dugdale maybe ‘find’ is the right word after all.

  72. manandboy says:

    On the so called new BBC TV Station.

    The Scottish public were not asked if they wanted it, or if they would watch it. So say the comments on the BBC’s webpage.

    The BBC in Scotland is VITAL to the interests of the British Establishment because it is their main propaganda outlet.

    All the talk from Tony Hall is designed to hide this true purpose of the BBC in Scotland.

    Think what Scotland would be like without any Unionist brainwashing every hour on the hour.

    The gullible and the naive of course are saying it’s a great thing. But only because their brains are not wired properly.

    If you have a few minutes, read the comments section of this news item on the BBC’s website, to get some idea of the extent of brainwashing in the UK.

    Telling the truth about Scottish Independence to English Unionists is like taking steak pies to a vegan party, except vegans are most often nice people, but I’m sure you get the point.

  73. Capella says:

    Derek Bateman on the new BBC channel. Sounds fab!

  74. Meg merrilees says:


    should be on the previous thread really.

    Radioactive Boar (47% of population ) have been discovered in the forests in Czechoslovakia, also radioactive reindeer and sheep in Norway – 31 years after Chernobyl.

  75. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    According to the blurb on that web page you referenced:

    The new funding takes the percentage of the licence fee funds raised in Scotland and spent in Scotland to 68% – or 79% if the £35m spent on distribution costs, getting the programmes to the audience, is included.

    In other words, after this Great Advance, the BBC are still creaming-off 1/3 of our TV licence for rUK’s benefit, and on top of that are wasting £35M to kit out a digital channel that the majority of TV viewers will likely never watch!

    Some deal that. Diddled by our colonial masters yet again.

  76. Chick McGregor says:

    “… unelectable because of what Labour ar NOT.” See previous.

  77. Chick McGregor says:

    @Tam J
    “…. so either the membership is somewhere south of 5,000 or the biscuit tin has been getting seriously raided.”

    Well you know what they say, “A change is as good as arrest.” 🙂

  78. Jock McDonnell says:

    OT, but interesting comments on Articles of the Onion:

  79. manandboy says:

    Exactly, RJS, but darn sarf, they are moaning because they think THEY are paying for it.

    Independence is going to be the sweetest thing. I swear I may never even look south again.

  80. geeo says:

    I looked in here for ages and couldn’t find Scottish labour, labour in Scotland, The autonomous Scottish labour Party or even the Federal Scottish labour party…..

    Search – The Electoral Commission
    As for the new “Scottish” channel….”should begin transmission around autumn 2018″

    Just in time for indyref 2….”it must be true, it was on the Scottish BBC” *(sigh)*

  81. Macart says:

    They’ve fallen a long way right enough and I don’t simply mean in terms of members. Amazingly, I don’t think they’re finished falling yet.

  82. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    Indeed. I expect that whoever wins the two WM by-elections down south today, it’s Labour that will be the obvious real losers. Every such setback dunts them more. It’s a kind of anti-momentum.

    But I suppose up here there will have to come a point eventually where they implode, electorally speaking. Most people will just see the game’s up and look elsewhere. Like happened to the Libs down south in the 1920s.

    But not yet I think in the upcoming local elections. Like the Tories in almost every election, they will be kept afloat to a fair degree in many places by the PR electoral system.

    Given a false hope. Ignore the writing on the wall like all those times before. The real answer is staring them in the face, but will any of their leadership (present or future) take the leap? If UKez won’t, might Sarwar or Rowley?

    I’m not holding my breath. If there isn’t an actual split, it may be indyref2 that provides the coup de grâce.

  83. Macart says:

    @Robert J Sutherland

    No, they won’t make that choice. They can’t for a whole host of reasons, but mainly over investment. They’ve had any number of opportunities to remain politically relevant in the past decade, but their investment in tribalism, the narrative they helped create coupled with a lack of imagination and talent within the remaining Scottish leadership won’t allow for the change of heart that is necessary.

    More importantly, they can’t and won’t put the needs of the population before the needs of the party.

  84. Still Positive says:

    Well said Macart @ 2.19

    I have been on election duty, for the SNP, outside our local polling station with Labour members who are really pleasant people but I wonder why they are members of the Labour party. The 2 I have come across are intelligent people but seem to be Labour in Scotland before Tony Blair.

  85. Still Positive says:

    Well said macart @ 2.19.

    I echo that.

  86. Still Positive says:

    Sorry, the first post hadn’t appeared when I did the second and I got a message that I couldn’t post as it was a duplicate, which it wasn’t.

    Off to bed now. Catch up later today.

  87. LesRoches says:

    Just read your latest article, brilliant.

    Kez and Labour clearly struggle for transparent financial support, unlike Wings, which made me review my own donation policy next time around.

    Wings never disappoints with either its contents or timing in countering the daily propaganda machine, last year I made a modest contribution to Wings, next time round this be increased.

    Keep up the good work and best wishes to all who contribute to the discussions.

  88. Jeff Todd says:

    Was watching the excellent movie Argo. The scenes of US Embassy staff desperately shredding documents made me think of Glasgow Labour Cooncilors before they get their jotters in May.

    Hopefully another Labour bastion will be overrun….

  89. Nana says:

    Brexit Secretary David Davis says UK will stay open to migrants after leaving EU

    UK prisons ‘holding child inmates in solitary confinement against UN torture rules’

  90. Nana says:

    Brexit talks could get ‘gory, bitter and twisted’, former ambassador warns

    Brexit latest: Leaving the customs union will inevitably mean expensive border queues for firms warn trade experts

  91. Neil Cook says:

    Just on BBC that new Scottish News channel will have Scottish news on it!!!
    Tell you what the Journos at BBC are on the ball, imagine a Scottish news programme with news on Scotland. Must be employing people with double digits IQS now

  92. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    Grubs up, a hug in a mug. Thank You. Kettle’s on!

    Peace Always

  93. Truth says:

    It’s enraging my tax money goes to the Labour party. I’ve always cancelled the political levy in union membership, but there’s no avoiding this.

    How many other right wing parties am I being forced to support?

    That’s right Kezia, I lump Labour in with ukip and the BNP. Yoons the lot of you.

  94. Nana says:


    It’s a bit blowy out this morning, I’m needing that hug in a mug!

  95. Smallaxe says:


    Raining at the border, sou’ wester weather.People who don’t appreciate the rain, only get wet!People who do, get daffodils and Snowdrops. 🙂

    Peace Always

  96. Hamish100 says:

    No indyref 2- we have been told off!


    Let’s just call it


    What no?



    Maybe not

    How about Independence.

  97. Macart says:


    Yep, miserable out down here.

    Still, look on it as more precious resources falling into our rivers and lochs. 🙂

  98. heedtracker says:

    Will Kez get a taste?

    Why would an minted old prozzie shagger donate to Labour?

    Questions, questions.


    Wednesday 22 February 2017 23.01 GMT


    Tom Watson given £500k in donations by Max Mosley in past year
    Register of MPs’ interests shows that former Formula One boss gave money to support Watson’s office as deputy leader and shadow culture secretary

    Labour’s deputy leader, Tom Watson, has received half a million pounds in donations from Max Mosley in less than a year, official records show.

    The latest register of MPs’ interests reveals that Watson registered a donation worth £300,000 from the former boss of Formula One this month. It was made via the party to support Watson’s office as deputy leader and shadow culture secretary.

    That followed a £200,000 donation from Mosley last June for a similar purpose. Mosley had previously donated £40,000 to support Watson’s bid to become the party’s deputy leader in 2015.

    “I’m proud to call Max Mosley a friend and I’m delighted he has made a financial contribution to Labour,” Watson said.

  99. McBoxheid says:

    Capella says:
    22 February, 2017 at 6:51 pm

    They could have a lot of students, youths 14 – 19 yrs, and armed forces personnel @ £3 per year.
    Didn’t they have a reduced rate in the run up to the General Election, followed by a purge of new members in the run up to the leadership election?

    I’m out of touch now,I left 25 years ago, but it used to be that members of the Armed Forces were not allowed to be members of political parties or organisations, because it was/is their duty to serve the government of the day, not any one political party or organisation.

  100. heedtracker says:

    Why would a minted old prozzie shagger pay Labour five hundred grand?

    “Labour has consistently called for the Leveson recommendations to be implemented in full. A new system of independent self-regulation was agreed by the three main political parties in 2013 following consultation with victims of press intrusion and the promises made to them at the time should be honoured.

  101. Brian Powell says:


    “Brexit Secretary David Davis says UK will stay open to migrants after leaving EU”, LOLZ. So Breiters don’t give a hoot about the ‘will of the people’, as long as the banks get a deal.

    All those ‘foreign workers’ will still be ‘taking Britland jobs’.

  102. Sinky says:

    New BBC Scotland channel being discussed on BBC Radio Scotland Morning Call at 9 a.m.
    Call 0500 92 95 00. Text 80295.

  103. Capella says:

    @ McBoxheid – I’m quoting the Labour recruitment form above.
    Other Rate – £3/year
    Aged 14 – 6
    Member of British Armed Forces.

    Maybe it’s now compulsory to join the Labour Party in the Armed Forces and for Students!

  104. Col says:

    Will someone give kaye a call and tell her she is a liar, giving the example of last week when she claimed that whatever percentage of the public didn’t trust the BBC that the rest did trust them which was a total misrepresentation of figures just like Gordon brewer did aswell.

  105. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says

    Brexit talks could get ‘gory, bitter and twisted’, former ambassador warns

    Thanks. A good read from someone whose views should be listened to.

    there will be no sectoral deals in either the single market or the customs union

    … that is the first time I have seen that view expressed. If the EU does take that line then either the UK accepts full single market, which includes the EU red line of freedom of movement, or the UK gets very little!

  106. heedtracker says:

    Sinky says:
    23 February, 2017 at 8:44 am
    New BBC Scotland channel being discussed on BBC Radio Scotland

    Exact same mob now regularly presenting this guy to us all, as the voice of probity and reason,

    As they blackout anyone or anything SNP. Well they all do but lets get “much more BBC in Scotland” simpered Sarah Smith last night, BBC UK news, grinding it out.

  107. Nana says:


    You can watch Sir Ivan giving evidence to the Exiting the European Union Committee yesterday here…

  108. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Stop watching and listening to BBC’s drivel. Cancel your license. Right noo.

  109. ScottieDog says:

    So are we supposed to celebrate a dedicated propaganda channel?

  110. galamcennalath says:

    New BBC channel. A suggestion for them. On opening night they should show London Calling if they want to prove they are tarred with a different brush.

    @Nana, link, thanks

  111. Bob MACK says:

    Well if the BBC are creaming off money to serve England’s needs, I am certain the UK government is doing exactly the same.

    They are after all basically members of the same club.

  112. Les Wilson says:

    The new tv channel,is just another Unionist based con.
    We are to hear everything on the “Normal” EBC news at 6pm.
    Then later we will hear it all again at 9pm with a few changes to make it feel more Scottish.
    Also, at 9 pm, it will hardly be used, it is prime tv time and people will watch the serial or whatever they like to watch.
    BBC are very well aware of this.

    It will be basically recycled rubbish, actual Scottish news will be “someones granny fell of a bus” type of news that has no effect on our political deficit.
    It will be made to be so boring it will reflect just how bad Scotland is, er, at anything.

    The timing is suspicious too, no matter what weasel excuses they make. It is roughly about the timeing Indy2 is expected, for have no fear, it will become a propaganda platform have no doubt about that. It is what the BBC do. It is a con.

    My question would be, just why are they so scared of a Scottish six.

  113. orri says:

    Love how at the end of their report about how great it’s going to be the final remark is “That put’s an end to the debate about a Scottish Six”. It think they’ll find it disnae. For a start we now get to compare how a single program that could go on the air in as little as a week compares to something that might not even start for the best part of 2 years.

  114. Les Wilson says:

    Jeff Todd says:
    Don’t worry Glasgow Council shredders will have already been working 24/7. They will be destroying evidence across the board, just as all labour councils will be.

    If Glasgow falls to the SNP, they have much to be scared of, as do other corrupt councils, such as Aberdeen. There are many others.
    Their tricks and treachery will be exposed across the board, and they soo deserve it.

  115. stu mac says:

    Nana says:
    23 February, 2017 at 7:14 am

    Proof if any was needed that the BBC (which always had a bias toward the establishment but tried not to be blatant) has become no more than a Tory, right wing propaganda machine.

  116. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    This new programme from BBC Scotland runs from 7pm until midnight.

    Will we then be subjected to a few lines of “God Save The Queen” at the end of the night followed by the reminder to pull out the plug before you go to bed???

    Frightening stuff!!!

  117. stu mac says:

    @uth says:
    23 February, 2017 at 7:49 am
    It’s enraging my tax money goes to the Labour party.

    I’ve always been pleased that my union (of which I’m still a member though retired) supported no political party. Instead I believe a small amount was taken for political lobbying but not for support of any particular party.

  118. stu mac says:

    @ll Kez get a taste?
    Why would an minted old prozzie shagger donate to Labour?

    Well the answer is at the end of the article. Watson fully supports full implementation of that IMPRESS thing – the one which means if a newspaper is sued, even if it WINS its case it has to pay all expenses. Mosley has had stories run about him he doesn’t like. Noticeable too that JKR herself also supports this nonsense. I know the tabloids do need some reining in but this is just a charter to stop any paper reporting anything the rich and powerful don’t want becoming public.

  119. Naina Tal says:

    You’ve probably heard of the phenomenon of the frog and the pot of boiling water. If you put a frog into the pot when it’s really hot, it’ll jump right back out. If you put it into the water when it’s cold, the frog will sit there even though you increase the heat.

    Bear with me! I think that’s what’s happened to the Labourites, in fact most of the Yoons. They are the frogs. They’ve seen the heat turned up gradually, so they haven’t jumped. Keep the heat on!!

  120. Capella says:

    CTEER Committee. Ross Greer made an excellent point at approx 9:53. He asked why the new Scottish commissioners would be based in London 3 days a week. “I have the job description in front of me”. That stopped the mumbling attempt to deny it.

    OFCOM on now

  121. heedtracker says:

    stu mac says:
    23 February, 2017 at 10:15 am
    @ll Kez get a taste?
    Why would an minted old prozzie shagger donate to Labour?

    Its not Up The Workers, Vote Labour, then? Five hundred grand is quite a lot of money for a socialist worker like Max to donate to Labour but its a neat display of how UKOK politics is often a battle ground for the rich and their vendettas.

    Also interesting, there’s not a peep out of Kez or any BBC vote Slab Scotland gimps, about the how and why an ancient prozzie shagger is actually pumping his hard earned into Kez’s party. Maybe she’s not going to get any of the old gits donation.

    At least the old shag monster is providing employment though, probably with out pensions and paid hols. You never know.

  122. Robert Peffers says:

    @Iain More says: 22 February, 2017 at 10:20 pm:

    “I couldn’t help but notice the twitter tweets and that letter about Yoons not liking to be called Yoons. Poor wee thin skinned sensitive souls. Would they prefer something beginning with Q?”

    On the subject of Yoons not wishing to be called Yoons. Perhaps if they stopped calling seekers after Scottish independence NAZIs, Cybernats or even Nationalists I may consider NOT calling them, “Lying B*******”.

    However, when they first began to use the term , “Cybernat”, to denigrate us, our first reaction was to seek a term for them to strike back at the unionists. We came up with the shortened version of the term, “British Nationalists”, “BRATS”.

    As it happened we then somehow became rather proud of being, “Cybernats”, and their abuse was effectively turned back upon them much more effectively.

  123. DW says:

    Stu: The income for 2015 should be based on 2015 membership fees.

    They’ve raised their membership fees recently.

    In 2015 £1 per year for Students, Teens, and Soldiers.
    They were also only charging £12 per year for 20-26 year olds.

    So if Labour had approx. 18000 £1-a-year members in 2015, the figure of 21000 members might not actually be a lie.

  124. bjsalba says:

    @galamcennalath at 9:06 am

    If you had been reading what was being said in Europe, rather than the British media, you would have known that was the case from shortly after the EU referendum was announced, certainly before the vote.

    The UK MSM chose to give it virtually no coverage.

  125. The Rough Bounds says:

    You know the expression, ‘A day late and a penny short’.

    This ‘Scottish’ channel will be a decade late and £100,000,000 short.

    It will be pish.

  126. Robert Peffers says:

    @ian m says: 22 February, 2017 at 11:00 pm:

    ” … The new Scotland will have room for a party of the left when the SNP step down … “

    Whoa! There! ian.

    Whatever makes you think the SNP would, “Stand Down”, after gaining independence?

    Need I remind you the letter, “N””, in the title, “SNP”, stands for, “NATIONAL”, and NOT for, “NATIONALIST”.

    They are thus, simply, the party of the Scottish Nation.
    As Nicola often tells us, “The SNP, when in power, represents the best interests of ALL the people of Scotland”.

    If fact she often points out that the SNP led SG are doing what they think to be the best for all the people of the United Kingdom.

    Oh! And, by the way, she knows the great difference between the United Kingdom and Britain, too. Which is something the British Nationalists just do not want to encourage us to realise. Just listen to them calling anything to do with the UK as British.

    Thus Theresa May is NOT the Prime Minister of either Great Britain or of Britain. She is nominally only the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. However, that means the de facto parliament of England, for that is what the Westminster parliament is. This can be deduced by their use of devolution and EVEL.

    Westminster is operating as the de facto Parliament of the country of England and is thus devolving English powers to their three subservient devolved regions. Note that is exactly what their Supreme Court recently ruled. Scotland is no longer the only partner kingdom with the kingdom of England in a United Kingdom.

  127. Thomas says:

    This is about the only place I can get some semblance of truth, love these reports. MSM is just bullshit after bullshit after Labour/Tory propaganda bullshit, just wish more people would come here for their news.

    Keep up the good work Stuey 🙂

  128. Proud Cybernat says:

    “As it happened we then somehow became rather proud of being, “Cybernats”…”

    Aye – you better believe it!

  129. Cuilean says:

    Last night, watching my recording of ‘Politics Scotland’, I thought I’d fallen through a time warp. Both Blair Jenkins and Magrit Curran were on bletherin to Gordon Brewster.

    I laughed out loud when Magrit complained to Brewster how badly the Tories were behaving over Brexit and Brewster ‘forgot’ to ask her why their party, Labour, had voted with the Tories en masse for the Brexit Bill. If the SNP had voted en masse with the Tories, I’m pretty sure Brewster might have just brought it up when interviewing an SNP member who was complaining to him about the Tories.

  130. Clydebuilt says:

    There isn’t another journalist in Scotland capable of a piece of analysis like the above……… Keep it coming Rev.

  131. Titus says:

    best case scenario (for membership numbers)… if all members were concessionary then the max is 5,000 – this would imply that there actual membership is substantially less than 5,000.

  132. Meg merrilees says:

    Macart @11.45

    PLEASE tell me that someone corrected this massive, horrendous LIE today…

    recorded FOREVER in Hansard – what a gift!

  133. Nana says:

    In response to the transport minister’s blatant lie this morning Margaret Ferrier mp replied

    “The Transport Minister should consider a career in fantasy fiction. Commuters in Scotland are much better off than south of the border”

    video here…

  134. Robert Dark says:


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