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The Labyrinth Of Stupidity

Posted on April 26, 2024 by

It’s probably as good an illustration of the madness currently engulfing Scottish politics as anything that the most unusual suspect, Anas Sarwar, may have just – temporarily at least – saved Humza Yousaf’s job.

And although our head hurts already, we’ll try to explain why.

The fundamental problems of Humza Yousaf’s position are all still present, and indeed basically insurmountable. The knives are out and his days are numbered. But Anas Sarwar’s lodging this morning of a second confidence motion, crucially different from Douglas Ross’s pointless one of yesterday in that it’s legally binding, throws a hand grenade right into the soup.

For one thing, Yousaf’s resignation would NOT cancel Sarwar’s motion in the way it would with Ross’s. The SNP would still have to face down Sarwar’s confidence vote whether they had a leader or not, in which scenario they may be prepared to tolerate Yousaf holding on a little longer.

Sarwar had very little choice – Labour is the only party which wholeheartedly and unequivocally wants there to be a new Holyrood election – and it’s remarkable that Ross apparently didn’t realise that. A purely symbolic vote against Yousaf alone was never going to cut it, so Ross has just handed any credit for bringing the government down to Labour, looking both cowardly and incompetent in the process.

But will it? The arithmetic hasn’t changed any. The Greens still loathe Yousaf, and would in any event look utterly ridiculous voting against Yousaf but NOT against the government he leads, and kicked them out of. They would, in effect, be endorsing his judgement in getting rid of them.

We can safely assume that every Unionist MSP will vote for both of the motions, so the SNP’s only chance of surviving in government is to get the support of Ash Regan.

But wait. The price of Regan’s support would be high, and likely much too high for quite a few of the SNP’s loonier MSPs. It’s very difficult to imagine the likes of Emma Roddick, Joe Fitzpatrick or Karen Adam voting for any government that had conceded serious ground to Alba on things like gender ideology.

It’s distinctly likely that at least one of them would resign the whip, enabling them to abstain or vote against the government, exactly as Regan herself did over the Gender Recognition Reform bill in 2022. (They might well arrange to defect to the Greens in exchange for a favourable list position at the resulting election.)

And the vote is so tightly balanced that a single abstention is all it would take to consign the government to defeat. Yousaf, then, is caught between a rock and a hard place. Any ground he concedes to Alba would probably be cancelled out by defections from his own side.

So alternatively he could try grovelling to the Greens, on whose behalf Lorna Slater issued a barely-concealed plea to the SNP for reconciliation this morning.

He might not have to reconvene the Bute House Agreement, just offer them a series of guarantees about things like the conversion practices bill and maybe a few bribes on climate issues in return for a confidence-and-supply agreement, or at least for their abstention in the confidence votes.

Doing so would cost him nothing but pride, and with their seven votes taken out of the equation he could even survive a small rebellion from the likes of Fergus Ewing. But it’s questionable whether the Greens would accept the deal from Yousaf specifically, for reasons we’ve already touched on above.

They’re absolutely fuming about the way they were ejected from government and they might make it clear to the SNP that their price would include a new FM – which they could do by backing the confidence vote against Yousaf but not the one against the government, and just toughing out all the resulting mockery by pointing to the fact that they’d won a “victory” by securing whatever concessions they’d managed to get.

(Let’s face it, if you’re a Scottish Green you’re used to being mocked.)

So the SNP have to make overtures to either Alba or the Greens, and they’re facing a confidence vote no matter what they do. Because of Sarwar’s motion, if Yousaf quits they can’t realistically survive, because a leaderless party wouldn’t be in any position to offer Ash Regan what she’d need to justify supporting the government – a move which would be hugely unpopular with Alba members.

But the same also applies to the Greens – any deal they made would be at the mercy of whoever became the next SNP leader – although it’s perhaps marginally more conceivable that they’d be willing to abstain on the second vote if Yousaf was gone, having claimed their revenge. (And they’d be able to threaten the SNP with lodging a new confidence motion if they were double-crossed.)

But their membership probably wouldn’t be too happy with that either, and they’re still facing an EGM next month at which Harvie and Slater could be forced to resign.

So at the same time, Yousaf has to quit and also can’t quit. He’s so toxic that anyone who deals with him gets damaged by association, but if he’s not present nobody can deal with anyone and the government falls by default.

Frankly, readers, at this point we’re just going to have a little lie down.

.

[EDIT, FIVE MINUTES LATER] Oh ffs, Alba. Just pack it up already if all you’re going to do is waste people’s sodding time.

.

[EDIT, ANOTHER FIVE MINUTES LATER] Remarkably, this might actually manage to be even more cretinous than the Alba statement.

Firstly because Douglas Ross’s motion is retrospective and explicitly criticises the PREVIOUS government that the Greens WERE a part of, but that isn’t stopping the Greens voting for it.

And secondly because Sarwar’s extremely minimalist motion is, conversely, solely directed against the CURRENT government, ie the one WITHOUT the Greens in it, and so should present no obstacle to Green support.

Could someone PLEASE find us just one political party in Scotland not run and entirely populated by the absolutely useless?

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0 to “The Labyrinth Of Stupidity”

  1. Timber!
    Ignored
    says:

    Popcorn!!!

  2. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    To think… ALBA once offered the SNP a Holyrood Supermajority.

    Now it’s a vote.

  3. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    Just when i think it cant get worse bejings it does

  4. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Popcorn sales have gone through the roof.

    No point in speculating now. It’s unravelling so fast it’s impossible to keep up. Anything can happen. It was only a matter of time before Humza screwed up big time. He has lasted a wee bit longer than I thought he would.

    The Greens are also in a bit of a bind now. Either they look really stupid, or they look really stupid, whatever they do next week lol.

  5. DavidL
    Ignored
    says:

    The difference between Ross’s and Sarwar’s motion is that Ross’s has an excellent chance of succeeding and bringing down the First Minister throwing the SNP into yet more chaos whilst Sarwar’s will fail, almost certainly being voted down by both the Greens and Regan.

    I agree that the Labour motion makes it more likely that Yousaf can keep his job for now. Why Labour wanted that is far from clear. Just maybe they think that things don’t get any better for them than a limping Yousaf staggering on.

  6. Catherine Sengupta
    Ignored
    says:

    Wouldn’t it be great if those MSPs from the SNP, with any integrity, resigned from the SNP and got behind Alba to power their way back, albeit under a different umbrella, but with independence as their first and last priority? Oh, well, I can dream, can’t I?

  7. Robinov Cybernat
    Ignored
    says:

    Surely you must have an idea of what could be the best outcome in all of this Stu.
    Personally, I’m not that worried about Ash supporting or not. My main concern and this has always been my main concern is the fuckwits that we are going to end up with because at this precise time, there is absolutely nobody (apart from Ash) that I would trust to run a bath, let alone the country.

  8. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    I would not trust Lorna Slater to sit the right way round on a toilet.

    The perverts in primary schools did it for me. I want them out NOW. Even though they would get an even bigger hammering by feeding them more time, more rope, the price for it will be paid by kids.

    Their polices amount to child abuse. They have got to go.

  9. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Stu,

    Anas sarwar has obviously been reading your posts.

  10. rogueslr
    Ignored
    says:

    With such a fine balance it would only take one MSP, on either side of the house, to be unavailable through illness, or being in a police interview room, at the time the votes are called for all bets to be off.

  11. Vivian O’Blivion
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s true Andy Wightman and Michelle Ballantyne resigned the platform under which they were originally elected as List MSPs and served as an independent and Reform UK MSP respectively, but both left their original party in the dregs of a Parliament.
    My understanding is that the parties they were originally elected to represent opted not to press the matter. Bringing in someone lower in the List would be disruptive not least for the “lucky” individual who would have to leave their current employment with no guarantee of continued engagement after the scheduled election.
    If self-certified nutter, Emma Roddick resigned the SNP, the Party is hardly likely to let that slip (as was done with Wightman & Ballantyne) given the repercussions.
    Mind you, undiagnosed moon-howler Karen Adam will readily depart in a strop if whomever leads the Party gives a nanometer towards sanity where Gender Ideology is concerned.

  12. John C
    Ignored
    says:

    The price of Regan’s support would be high, and likely much too high for quite a few of the SNP’s loonier MSPs. It’s very difficult to imagine the likes of Emma Roddick, Joe Fitzpatrick or Karen Adam voting for any government that had conceded serious ground to Alba on things like gender ideology.

    Which would leave them voting with the Tories to bring down a ‘nationalist’ (even though they’ve no interest in independence) government, force an election where a number of SNP MSPs would likely lose their jobs.

    It’s a right old mess these people are in.

    They’re absolutely fuming about the way they were ejected from government and they might make it clear to the SNP that their price would include a new FM

    What gets me is the Greens were putting the BHA to a members vote and threatening to leave. Now, they had not one single intention of leaving the BHA as those salaries and that access to power was too good to throw away & they clearly thought Yousaf so weak he’d do nothing like he has done.

    So at the same time, Yousaf has to quit and also can’t quit. He’s so toxic that anyone who deals with him gets damaged by association, but if he’s not present nobody can deal with anyone and the government falls by default.

    One thing I think may happen is that Yousaf clings on. A few SNP MSPs slide over to the Greens of become independent (it’s the only independence ever to likely happen in this form of the SNP) & Yousaf throws another curveball by calling an early election. Considering the hatred the general public on the whole has for the Greens right now it’s perhaps unadvisable for them to rely on the ‘SNP 1, Green 2’ support from SNP voters or indeed, the public generally.

    Everything is up in the air right now but if I were on the ‘progressive’ (they’re not, but lets stick with this label for now) wing of the SNP I’d quickly realise that maybe, perhaps the tide is turning against them & maybe, perhaps The Greens would be a better place for them to go as even if Yousaf goes (which is 100% certain at some point) and replaced by a continuity candidate before an election, the aftermath of that election is going to be brutal when the SNP sees support leaking away & they maybe realise that the ‘Queer’ brigade are a complete liability.

  13. Suz Jamieson
    Ignored
    says:

    I think you’re giving too much credit to Fitzpatrick, Roddick and Adam. Not one of them really gives a shit about the whole trans thing personally. They have no principles they just agree with and mouth off about anything that will keep them in a job. Because none of them would survive in the wild because they’re idiots.
    But then, who knows anymore? The whole lot of them are batshit insane so anything could happen.

  14. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    So, Mr Yousaf states that, “He’ll fight on and is not resigning”, and it’ll be the death of a thousand cuts and two thousand behind the scenes deals.

  15. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    If you support a Queer theory, or anything woke, or jury-less trials in Scotland you can kiss goodbye to yer erse on the way out of yer career in Scottish politics,

  16. Mark Beggan
    Ignored
    says:

    He says he’s not that resigning and we all know Humza never goes back on his word.

  17. Ian McCubbin
    Ignored
    says:

    This is now a farce for retaining what is power for self.
    Breeks said it all and hope Ash pushes Yousaf for a deal.

  18. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    Sarwar takes his orders from London, we all know that.

    I would let the Queer Brigade that is the Greens and Fib Dems sabotage and tear apart those other Yoon Party’s. If the Tories join that unholy coalition of anti Scottish bigots then all the better. They will be even more incompetent that the Sturgeon – Green unholy coalition

    To Quote the Rev”(Let’s face it, if you’re a Scottish Green you’re used to being mocked.)”

    Shouldn’t that read “if you are Scottish or Brit Yoon Queer”?

  19. Tommy Box
    Ignored
    says:

    Hasnt Ash already said she’ll support the SNP re the Sarwar vote ? Shes already given up any leverage she might have had surely ?

  20. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    Why are ALBA not backing the VONC? FFS! These people hate your guts with a passion and yet you are voting to prop them up for another two years. Why.

    Sometimes thinking you are being clever you can end doing some really stupid things. Whatever reasons you have got you are wrong.

  21. Alice Timmons
    Ignored
    says:

    For crying out loud, Stu. Go and have that lie down you were threatening. Our hearts won’t take this pace much longer. Besides, you’re going to need your energy for whatever shit show the end result turns out to be.

  22. Neil Singleton
    Ignored
    says:

    Yousless is the epitome of a narcissist. He won’t resign.

  23. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    James Che
    Ignored
    says:
    26 April, 2024 at 1:53 pm

    If you support a Queer theory, or anything woke, or jury-less trials in Scotland you can kiss goodbye to yer erse on the way out of yer career in Scottish politics,

    ======================================================================================================================================

    We can but wish but the Brit Press and Media in Scotland is overpopulated with the mingin Queers and Wokes etc. Even the National is reeking of them. I fear we wont get rid of them ever. How did less than 1 percent of the population get so much influence in not just Scottish life but British life as well?

  24. Kevin Cargill
    Ignored
    says:

    As I said the other day, I’ve resigned from Alba and given up on politics altogether. I only came back to the site today because of curiosity with what might happen. But with Alba’s ridiculous announcement I feel 100% vindicated. With the levels of stupidity currently on display in Scotland there will be no Independence in either my or my Grandchildren’s lives. In fact the UK is more likely to be colonised by China than achieve independence within the next 100 years!!

  25. robertkknight
    Ignored
    says:

    I joined Alba to further Scottish Independence because the SNP sold out for the sake of the Westminster trough’n’baubles plus the gender woo-woo madness – where I, an anatomically intact male, can follow a girl into the women’s changing room in the Allander Centre, then call the cops if I’m challenged and have the person challenging me charged with a hate crime for having deliberately mis-gendered me by not calling me by my preferred pronouns or by my preferred name… “Marilyn”.

    Now Alba looks set to prop-up this shower of incompetent arseholes!

    WTAF???

    Guess I’m going to be spending my Alba membership subs on something else… a one-way boat ticket to Ireland!

  26. Neil in Glasgow
    Ignored
    says:

    My head is actually hurting. Would someone just hurry up and get charged with something so we don’t need to think about this! Breach of the peace would do right now!

  27. Marie Clark
    Ignored
    says:

    Enough already. Jeez oh it just goes to show my recent thoughts of there’s none of them worth voting for would appear to be correct.

    It’s all just a game to them.

  28. Anton Decadent
    Ignored
    says:

    The last few days have reminded me why I come here for the news first then go to the Herald and the Guardian for the spin.

  29. Anton Decadent
    Ignored
    says:

    @Iain More, a look at Western politics over the last decade will have shown you that this is not restricted to this island but is a plague spreading across sovereign nations whilst the handful of holdouts are smeared as populist far Right juntas.

    Pay attention to the language used in a captured media, there are now Far Right and Anti Racists. This did not happen without a serious bankroll utilised by people it is illegal to say no to.

  30. Mia
    Ignored
    says:

    “The arithmetic hasn’t changed any”

    Rev, you know the arithmetic does not need to change. If the establishment wishes to keep this embarrassing SNP gov limping on until the next election, there will be more than enough rebels or puppets on demand within the unionist ranks to be sick on the day or have some diary clash that stops them attending the vote. And voila! the SNP gov survives for another day.

    In my opinion, this will be the path of least resistance for the BE and therefore the one most likely to succeed. This is a tried and tested strategy that has been deployed countless times in Westminster over the last 9 years.

    If the establishment really had wanted the SNP gov out, they would not have DRoss embarrassing himself with mere political posturing. It would have been a serious joint VoNC logged in by tories, labour and libdems.

    I guess DRoss’ handlers thought he had to be seen as doing something for the gallery and would get away with a VoNC on the FM, but never considered that somebody as astute and incisive as you would be scrutinising the move in full.

    In my view, Sarwar’s move is just to save face. However, either by accident or by design, he has just provided the SNP handlers with a credible emergency escape route than having to deliberately alienate pro-independence SNP voters by openly rejecting the pursuing of independence as requested in Ms REgan’s letter.

    Whatever the outcome of this VoNC, it will tell us how much effort and force the establishment is currently having to input in stopping Scotland’s independence.

  31. Politically Homeless (actually Alba)
    Ignored
    says:

    Alba not wanting to pull the plug entirely shouldn’t surprise anyone. Salmond said from the start that Alba would be a partner to the SNP: “second vote Alba” remember?

    It’s not a daft strategy. The idea is to coax average SNP voters over with constructive rhetoric and avoid being seen as a party of wreckers. Which could be particularly effective now that the Greens look like just that.

  32. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    I can’t believe that ALBA has handed the SNP a lifebelt. It would have been like Sinn Fein handing Redmond’s Irish Independence Party a bye after years of trampling on Irish sensibilities and doing Sweet Fanny Adams about independence. Unbelievable. What is wrong with these people? Fight, for God’s sake.

  33. AnneDon
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m choosing to assume Alex Salmond is playing behind-the-scenes 4 dimensional chess, because if the last adult in Scottish politics has lost his negotiating skills, I don’t know what I’ll do.

  34. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    It looks like the English Fascist Press and Media are going for Useless Yousef.They clearly arent reading the orders set out for them by the Brit Establishments Spook Agencies.

  35. Andrew F
    Ignored
    says:

    Maybe they’re all just servants of the establishment?

    Salmond included. Sure looks like that.

  36. TURABDIN
    Ignored
    says:

    For information.
    https://thespectator.com/topic/ground-people-university-palestine-columbia-protest/
    A maze of hormonal unreason.
    Long Live Trans & Palestinian Theyhood?

    «Alice laughed. ‘There’s no use trying,’ she said. ‘One can’t believe impossible things»
    «I daresay you haven’t had much practice,’ said the Queen. ‘When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes my kufiyah again!»

    Lewis Carroll, with minor edit

  37. Astonished
    Ignored
    says:

    All we can do is sit and wait. And fervently hope that Sturgeon gets arrested soon.

    This won’t end well for the nuSNP or the transcult.

  38. Antoine Roquentin
    Ignored
    says:

    Salmond may well be playing a deeply, sophisticated long-game here, but a great many Alba members, like the rest of us, simply don’t have an indeterminate amount of time to await the final outcome. Two zomby independence parties in the one parliament? C’mon FFS! somebody’s having a laugh here. That Colette Walker is a really sharp operator.

  39. Mia
    Ignored
    says:

    “What is wrong with these people?”

    Nothing, I think. We already had elements from the SNP saying that it is better to collapse the SNP gov than granting Regan’s demands, clearly showing those SNP elements have no interest whatsoever in independence.

    Rather than giving concessions, Ms Regan’s move is clearly putting the SNP handlers on a very uncomfortable position.

    There will be a GE this year, so I think this move is throwing light to the right places.

    There is no way the SNP handlers are going to let Alba anywhere near power and the evidence. I think we all know that. There is no way they will allow 1 Alba MSP revert all the hard work they have been doing for the last 9 years to destroy the party as a vehicle for independence.

    I have the feeling Ms Regan already knows this, so she might just be doing some political posturing too. However, in my opinion, it would be madness to miss the chance of exploiting this opportunity to extract as many concessions as she possibly can.

  40. Northcode
    Ignored
    says:

    robertknight @ 2:23pm

    “Now Alba looks set to prop-up this shower of incompetent arseholes!”

    I don’t believe there is a mainstream political route to independence any more.

    I don’t believe Holyrood is of any use to the Scots in their quest for liberation any more.

    I don’t believe a word of what any of Scotland’s politicians say any more – not one of them, regardless of past achievements.

    And I don’t believe the Scots can look to their political leaders for help in escaping colonial rule and with it their oppression.

    I believe we are running out of time and that we cannot afford to delay for much longer the finding of a means to rouse the Scots from their dwam and to have them exercise their sovereign right. A right which belongs to all Scots.

    I believe Salvo and Liberation Scotland and Alf Baird and Ian Lawson of YoursForScotland and Breeks and James Che and others point the way via the mechanism of Scotland’s constitution and Claim of Right.

    I believe in a free and independent Scotland. A Scotland where sovereign Scots can live their lives unhindered and unmolested by a foreign power and the shackles of its colonial ambition.

  41. Jim Thomson
    Ignored
    says:

    OK, let’s suppose it all goes for a ball of chalk and the government collapses. What is likely to be the voter turn-out for another go at a shitfest.

    I suspect it will be under 50% maybe even as low as 40% because why would anyone, without a vested political interest, even bother getting out of bed for any of the possible options?

    The SNP still aren’t serious about indy – they will definitely turn down indy offers and promote SNP 1 & 2 AGAIN which will guarantee another minority government.

    I have a different party membership but, I’m not sure I’d even vote for the one of which I’m a member.

  42. Oneliner
    Ignored
    says:

    When everyone stops dancing on the head of a Westminster pin, perhaps they will come to realise that the Treaty of Union is a sham colonial construct.

    The truth is hiding in plain sight.

  43. Dqvid Gray
    Ignored
    says:

    This is a Westminster election year and all parties are scaping together the pennies to fight that event. Can any of them now find the additional money they will need to fight a Scottish election?

  44. Ross
    Ignored
    says:

    Why do you keep punting this idea SNP MPSPs would vote against an SNP Govt?

    Have tories and labour mps ever voted against their governments?

    These are SNP MPs.. lol.. not opposition members. Heck of a leap to assume they’d vote themselves out of office.

  45. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Iain More,

    Iain I don’t really know sure, but I have a good idea being as this goes further afield than than just Scotland or Britain,

    What I have realised if Scotland acknowledged its own independence, England would get its borders back and stop the likes of these hair brained schemes like Ulez, crazy wokeness, etc. And would get a proper Brexit.

    Here in Scotland whats not to like about running our own Country too, Basically the ordinary people get along just fine,
    Its the politician causing the problems,
    Both sides benefit from extracting appalling politicians that are out of touch with the electorate and funded to much by lobbyists and ( think tanks ),
    “think tanks phrase” , is actually a joke all by itself.

  46. Muscleguy
    Ignored
    says:

    The Yoon parties should be careful what they wish for. Two elections in one year with inevitable policy confusion will not go down well with voters to start with.

    Secondly their London Central Offices budgeting for a GE will likely tell them “you broke it you pay for it” to any request for extra funding. In which case their only recourse will be to limit the number of candidates standing to save the deposits and campaign costs.

    And lastly all this might well get the SNP’s voters to actually get out and vote in indignation. Thus forestalling what they expect to be a kicking for them at the GE.

    Be careful what you wish for people, it might come true.

  47. Ross
    Ignored
    says:

    For Alba to GET concessions they gave to be willing to vote FOR the govt.

    If the concessions are not good enough they have to be willing to vote AGAINST.

    You can’t negotiate power as an immovable object.

    If all Alba do is vote down SNP gives, they’ll never be in a position to negotiate anything.

    A bit like SNP and Labour in London.

  48. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    After reading the above and the options, I’d have to go for Yousaf and the Greens, if not kissing and making up then backing each other in some sort of agreement that keeps Yousaf in power, and the Greens receive concessions in whatever form they may take.

  49. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Mia,

    Now you know why neither my or I registered vote this time around,
    We like turkeys voting for Christmas with our legs tied to a stake in the ground, its all about which party can stay in politics the longest so they can keep getting paid,

    I have started ploughing my own furrow, rightly or wrongly. Because it is the people that will make the change, not a rigged voting system in Scotland,

  50. Rob
    Ignored
    says:

    Until Muscleguy mentioned funding of GE campaigns, I hadn’t realised just how much they’ll need to avoid an election. How on Earth can the SNP fund one: they’re short on cash and volunteers; head office support must be a sick joke; do banks loan to entities linked to embezzlement investigations? What a time to be without your mobile office/ campervan.

  51. James Che.
    Ignored
    says:

    Lorna Campbell,

    Not for the first time, has Alba saved tried saving the Snp, I note,

  52. Livionian
    Ignored
    says:

    Honestly, when ever the next election in Scotland is, sooner or later, I can feel us becoming the next Belgium. There’s so much bad blood that non of the parties are going to be able to work together and forming and sustaining a government is going to be a joke from here on in.

  53. Frank Gillougley
    Ignored
    says:

    I have ceased to care about this sack of illiterate politicking ferrets. Same as it ever was, is now, and ever will be for our foreseeable futures, Scotland the betrayed. For God’s sake, would everybody please just stop voting!

  54. Alan Logan
    Ignored
    says:

    Just seen Lorna Slater saying the Greens were the glue holding stable government together

    Looking forward to the phrase as the subtext to a cartoon. Perhaps her assisted by Harvie and Greer stirring a cauldron boiling up horses hooves to make eco friendly adhesive.

    Or are the Greens where our FM has come unstuck. .

  55. Hugh Wallace
    Ignored
    says:

    I note a couple of comments alluding to Alex Salmond playing some sort of devious game by having Alba support the SNP. I can’t help but think I’ve heard this all before when we all thought Nicola Sturgeon was playing some kind of blinder by not kicking Westminster in the teeth during the time of the Brexit vote. Look how that turned out…

    I don’t think AS has been turned but I have no patience to support an Alba party that appears to have no fight in it. There is no longer any point to playing within the lines & following the political rules in the UK (& Scotland is firmly in the UK at the moment). I suspect that this will be the last month that I pay my subs to Alba HQ.

    So much for being a founder member…

  56. Wally Jumblatt
    Ignored
    says:

    It might be suggested that all of these morons in Holyrood (who we voted for one way or the other) are all playing at the top of ther game here. These clumsy manoueverings are the best they can figure out before their brains hurt.
    Scotland will never get independence (or deserve it) whilst the party central offices decide who gets in.
    If we had the best of our people in there, we wouldn’t be asking for independence -we would just be taking it.
    Bring this ‘government’ down as fast as you can and seize the day.

    -Swinney and Gray are safe pairs of hands ?????

  57. Bob Stevenson
    Ignored
    says:

    Relocating the ‘Parliament’ to a secure ward within Carstairs would be a good idea.

  58. Spartan 117
    Ignored
    says:

    Genuinely baffled as to how anyone could stand up for bungling racist Useless, his bungling party or the horrifically fascist Greens, considering the multitude of ills they have inflicted on this poor country.

    Equally baffled as to who is going to sort out this complete and utter burach, FollyRude is utterly bereft of any talent. Shut the whole lot down and start again.

  59. Garrion
    Ignored
    says:

    It might help at this point to imagine the old analogy of a swan being calm on the surface but peddling like fuck underneath the water, except upside down.
    Plus ça change, and all that.

  60. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Northcode,

    Scotland being independent certainly seems to be an Alien thought to the Snp, and at the moment if Alba have a secret strategy, for the life of me, I cannot see it in any obvious way,
    It appears that I am not alone in that thought, from reading other Comments

    It is time for the Sovereign Scottish people to all act on their own Sovereignty en masse, if possible, but not under any particular heading party unberella,

    The grass roots movement being individual people has been Hard for the establishment to target as there are so many, I suspect that was really what the hate crime bill was about behind the scenes, along with the upcoming promise of Juryless trials for Scotland,
    The SNP tried this once before, a year or two back, telling everyone in the independence movement that they would have to abide by new SNP rules, most people gave them a two fingered selute and told em on your bike,

    We can march with or without the Councils permission as Sovereign Scots asserting our Claim of Right,
    But would suggest that the banners and placards are more Assertive and are in unison saying exactly the same message, and the flag of Scotland
    It could say as a message
    “We the Sovereign people of Scotland, no longer recognise the treaty of union with England”.
    Or something similar,

    I wouldn’t even bother with all the other various messages, make one statement, make the message read load and clear.

    Or, ” We the sovereign people declare Scotland a Republic since 1707 ”

    But it has to be in unison and en masse, each march,

  61. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    James Che @ 4:45 pm

    “Not for the first time, has Alba saved tried saving the Snp, I note”

    Might be worth it this one more time in return for the intended outcome of Ash Regan’s “proposed Bill on an extension of the powers of the Scottish Parliament, which includes legislating for and negotiating Scottish independence”

    Not that many folks here have much faith in the SNP cabal doing what nationalists are supposed to do.

  62. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Then film it ourselves and post to all links available,everywhere,

  63. socrates macsporran
    Ignored
    says:

    With my background in sports-writing, I would say all this votes of confidence nonsense is the equivalent of an under-fire fitba manager getting public support from his board of directors, while the fans on the terraces are on the point of rioting on match days.

    I would therefore expect Youseless to be toast by the end of next week. However, this is Scottish politics and the SNP, so he is probably safe until the GE.

    After all, there is another rule in fitba and in poltics – turkeys will never vote for Christmas.

  64. Agent x
    Ignored
    says:

    Mac says:
    26 April, 2024 at 1:17 pm

    I would not trust Lorna Slater to sit the right way round on a toilet.
    ——————————————————–

    Come off it – everyone knows that in the interests of equality she pisses standing up at the toilet.

  65. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    As I stated yesterday Stuart Campbell repeatedly told us the way to achieve independence and was supported in his promotion of the idea publicly by Alex Salmond who many here like to promote as the ultimate strategist and the MESSIAH

    SO what has happened to “collapse the government and FORCE a HR election and make EVERY ELECTION a PLEBISCITE election on independence”

    WE only have to win ONCE they have to win EVERY TIME

    The MAJORITY of people on here went APESHIT when the BETRAYER announced to the world in 2015 that “a vote for the Scum Nonce Party didn’t mean a vote for independence” an election they were almost guaranteed to win, that gave the unionists reassurance they could vote for the snp without any fear of independence,same with the betrayers supreme court pish whose outcome was guaranteed

    So Ash Regan announcing she won’t vote to bring the SG down before a vote is taken, has just announced to Useless and crew that she doesn’t want ANY negotiation or conditions

    And these are supposed to be the intelligent ones desperate for indy GTF

  66. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    We are not marching to save Uk- rain,
    we will not be marching to save the NHS
    We are not marching to save Palestine,
    we will not be marching to Join the EU,
    We will not be marching to get the tories out,
    It is not a rag tail march for widespread ideas,
    Etc etc,

    We will be marching for Scotland, for its people and for their Country.
    Make it a happy event,
    Bring your own food and weather protection and organise.

    We are Sovereign people in Scotland,
    not the Councils,
    not the politicians,
    Not the police,
    Not the monarch
    and not the devolved government,

    We the people are Sovereign in Scotland, , we have to assert that Sovereignty, that not one of Scotland people on the march march for Scotland will not cause violence,
    .

  67. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Cerroct last lines above.

    Violence is not intended by the people marching for a independent Scotland,
    We are simply the families of Scotland,

  68. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Alf Baird 5.50pm Alf if Ash Regan has already publicly announced that she will support the SG do you think they will agree or concede to ANYTHING, she has already sunk negotiations , and even if they did COULD you trust them

  69. Redacted
    Ignored
    says:

    “In fact the UK is more likely to be colonised by China than achieve independence within the next 100 years!!”

    They haven’t forgiven us for the opium wars, view time in much greater scales, and we already have the Temu Parliament, so bring it on.

    It’s China, or the US via freeports.

    When will Mr Salmond want his revenge as much as we want it for him?

  70. David Jones
    Ignored
    says:

    Currents events at Holyrood reinforce my view that neither the SNP, or any pro-independence party, has any prospect of achieving independence in the short to medium term. In reality Independence will only happen if a sustained majority are persuaded to support it. The SNP have failed to do this, maybe no political party can. The question of independence must be de-coupled from left/right politics and other political issues of the day if sustained majority support is to be achieved.

  71. Northcode
    Ignored
    says:

    James Che

    James, I’m too old for the marchin’ an besides a hiv a dodgy knee.

    And besides that, haudin’ up a banner at the same time as trying tae walk is beyond ma intellectual capacity. A kin barely pick ma nose an walk at the same time. 🙂

  72. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Listening to Lorna Slater on Scotland’s colonial news channels and then listening to Humza Yousaf on another colonial news channel in Scotland, in my opinion Yousaf will offer an olive branch to the party and the Greens will accept it, and in doing so it will stave off both no confidence votes.

    Yousaf will in my opinion not do any kind of deal with Ash Regan.

  73. Angus Files
    Ignored
    says:

    Silver Fox on You Tube has it that humza is resigning tomorrow 9.30 along with robison and others.

    Enjoy the weekend.

  74. James Chey
    Ignored
    says:

    Northcode,

    I got a wheel barrow,, wheel chair or a trike, and duck tape fer the flag
    Whits yer weapon o choice 🙂

  75. Col Blimp.IV
    Ignored
    says:

    Is Sarwar forgetting about the Holyrood voting system?

    His Party is the only one likely to get more FPTP seats than they did last time – Last time they won 3 and got 21 from the list.

    A minor improvement at the first ballot can be totally negated on the second ballot and even when the improvment is quite substantial, it becomes a case of 3 steps forward, 2 steps back.

    Here’s hoping the Lib/Dems don’t make an unheralded comeback courtecy of disgruntled Tory voters.

  76. Doug
    Ignored
    says:

    If no party in Scotland which claims to want independence are willing to adopt Sinn Fein’s policy of abstentionism then pro independence voters should do the boycotting themselves by abstaining in all Westminster elections. Show contempt to both the union and to those who continue to betray Scotland.

  77. Old Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    In any country that has a hung parliament, it’s only natural to expect critical moments like this one from time to time. We’ll just have to wait and see which way the cookie crumbles.

  78. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev wrote:

    “The price of Regan’s support would be high, and likely much too high for quite a few of the SNP’s loonier MSPs. It’s very difficult to imagine the likes of Emma Roddick, Joe Fitzpatrick or Karen Adam voting for any government that had conceded serious ground to Alba on things like gender ideology.”

    Well, if things get that far, i guess we will see just how principled these trough-feeders are, or aren’t. I see some folk on here already referring to Regan apparently stating she will support the SNP Administration. If that’s the case i think my support for Alba will disintegrate a lot faster than it did for the SNP. The immediate times ahead are indeed very interesting.

  79. AndyH
    Ignored
    says:

    @ David Jones

    Indeed.

    The only way to achieve it is to keep a middle course and provide common sense government for the country. Essentially maintenance work.

    Anything else and it’s a scary one party state all over again.

    Salmonds government was like that in the beginning but became very socialist and that’s when the rot
    began to set in.

  80. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    “If no party in Scotland which claims to want independence are willing to adopt Sinn Fein’s policy of abstentionism”

    Doug.

    ISP meets the criteria. I’ll be voting ISP.

    https://www.isp.scot/

    “Let’s explain very briefly what abstention means for the MP. It means that they do not take the oath to the monarch and does not attend Parliament sittings or committees. They cannot vote in debates. They can still pursue cases on behalf of their constituents and represent them individually to Westminster on individual issues. They can have an office staff who will manage their cases and the staff can draw a salary. But the MP gets no salary – unless they take the oath and attend Parliament.”

    https://www.isp.scot/breaking-the-gravy-chain-the-necessity-of-abstentionism/

  81. Andy Ellis
    Ignored
    says:

    @Doug 7.24pm

    Surely Sinn Féinn succeeded in 1918 by winning Westminster seats and destroying the devolusionist IPP? I’m increasingly persuaded of the merits of abstentionism at Westminster, but for maximum impact don’t parties standing on an absentionist platform have to win the seats in the first place?

  82. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Northcode

    on a more serious note,.we either ignore any authority of the devolved parliament sent to Scotland.
    Which I suspect many are not brave enough to do as yet, to early, and would fail for lack of bravehearts,

    Not everyone can manage a march,

    Which leaves the third option of, inundating both parliaments simultainiously not once, but Three times every second month, with letters, ( not on line) even if half the people of Scotland did this, that is a lot of letters on their desks, make the envelopes plain but looking official, one of those letters could go to local MPs

    That could not be ignored the same way as one single petition, which has to reach a certain amount of signiture’s before its even considered and then usually dismissed within one day,

    Separately and but continuously it would be right annoying for both parliaments and MSPs.
    They would not know which was important to them and which were not,

    Just some suggestions , I am sure others here will come up with more ideas.

    One thing for certain nothing will happen if we sit on our hands,

  83. Charles (not the R one)
    Ignored
    says:

    Angus Files says:
    26 April, 2024 at 7:06 pm

    Silver Fox on You Tube has it that humza is resigning tomorrow 9.30 along with robison and others.

    Enjoy the weekend.
    ………………………………..

    I certainly would if that happened. Oh Please . . . !

    But we must never forget that all MPs and MSPs and Cooncillors truly believe
    1. that we (the common people) are TOO STUPID to see through their shenanigans,
    2. that even if we did, we are powerless to do owt about it,
    and
    3. that they actually DESERVE their pay and expenses, and as it seems in some cases, quite a lot more . . .

    It takes a special sort of person to be in these high offices without being corrupted by the temptations and offers that come flowing their ways.

    Here’s a challenge – name five policians who can fully be described as honest, and in it for the benefit of the country, rather than their own.

    Just five . . .

  84. laukat
    Ignored
    says:

    I doubt this will happen but suppose those in the SNP like Fergus Ewing decide to defect to Alba then the size of the Alba party at Holyrood would be about the same as the Greens. At that point which way does Humza or new SNP leader look to for votes?

    Leaving that aside one of the risks for Humza in not striking a deal with Alba is that it would be clearer evidence for Alba to say the SNP no longer care about Independence. That might tip a few more votes Alba’s way.

    When you add that Alba are currently getting mainstream press coverage they could only dream of a few days ago it could well see them gain enough voter share to get home a couple of list MSPs. If that gets Salmond back to Holyrood then all may not be lost.

  85. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    Any news on nicola

  86. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    James Che: whatever ALBA does, the SNP will not play ball. You are right: it isn’t the first time they have thrown them a lifeline. I can understand why – just about – but it is a huge mistake if the SNP refuses to change and limps towards 2026 and oblivion. ALBA will be blamed (by the SNP and others) for allowing the SNP to continue unchanged.

  87. Craig Murray
    Ignored
    says:

    Alex is a master.

    Humza will be just as dependent on Ash next week and next year as he is today.

    Think.

  88. Scot Finlayson
    Ignored
    says:

    In 1979 there was a motion of no confidence in the British Labour Government,

    British Labour lost by a single vote,

    one crucial vote was lost by British Labour backbencher Sir Alfred Broughton,

    Broughton (professionally a doctor) was in hospital near death but desperate to vote,(he could have stayed in an ambulance in Westminster but Callaghan refused,

    he died a few days later (heartbroken),could have been remembered as a hero.

  89. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    I am founding member of ALBA. I joined to show support to AS who I felt had been treated appallingly. I have never been active.

    But my patience is running low.

    Alex is such an astute skilled politician but he has these massive blind spots.

    And that is how we had Nicola completely and totally destroy his legacy and his reputation among the (unaware) general public.

    Yeah go prop up Yousless… another brilliant choice.

  90. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    The Wokes and Trannies in the SNP could resign en-masse but it wont make any difference as far as I can see. The Queer and the Woke propaganda runs deep and they are in positions of power as well.

    Heck I couldn’t make it to the end of the first episode of the Rings of Power. I didn’t last three episodes of The Witcher far less three seasons. Now my nephew tells me that he is three D printing his Warhammer 40K Models because Games Workshop has gone Woke and he is boycotting their shops now.

    I fear we are that little Dutch Boy who stuck his finger in the Dyke, no puns intended, only no relief is coming for him this time.

    Oh and lets not forget that a certain Tory Baroness is a Bull Dyke, the Wokes even have closet allies in the House of Lards and the Tory Party not to mention the Boardrooms of FTSE listed Companies..

  91. Redacted
    Ignored
    says:

    Five, off the top of my head, so happy to disagree:

    Margo MacDonald
    James Connolly
    Robin Cook
    Vacslav Havel
    Bashir Ahmed

  92. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    As we near the decade of Sturgeon’s hideous version of the SNP this idea of extending it, by two fucking years! by ALBA or anyone is nauseating.

    Are you FUCKING INSANE?!

  93. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    I know the debate on this issue is over if Alba are going to support the Scottish Government by voting against Sarwar’s VONC but I think you, Rev, are giving Roddick, Fitzpatrick and Adam far too much credit for having principles than they deserve.

    Can you really see border-line Roddick giving up the heady delights of a vast salary, all the expenses, and all the “status” of being a member of the in-crowd at Holyrood? Fat chance.

  94. Mia
    Ignored
    says:

    “Humza will be just as dependent on Ash next week and next year as he is today”

    Which is exactly nothing.

    Humza is a puppet, just like Sarwar, Cole-Hamilton, Harvie, Slater, DRoss and the entire cabinet are puppets.

    I am of the opinion that right now, after 9 years of drastic clearances, most HOlyrood, certainly all those who are currently in any position of power, are puppets. I am also of the opinion that the strings of those puppets are controlled by the same master. What I am not so sure is at what side of the Atlantic that master sits.

    This means that the master simply has to ensure sufficient number of puppets among tories, labour, etc abstain at the right time and voila, Humza survives as FM.

    Alternatively, if the master considers Humza has served his time and it is time for the next model of puppet to take over, then he either resigns on his own accord, perhaps with the “encouragement” of the resurfacing of some of his pecadilloes in the front pages, or the master just has to pull the strings of enough SNP MSPs puppets to abstain or voting against and voila, Humza as FM is no more.

    We have seen this same strategy deployed in the UK countless numbers of times during the last 9 years.

    Humza depends only on the master.

    Right now, the entire Holyrood, from the most junior SPAD to the unelected Lord Advocate sitting in the middle of the cabinet and the FM themselves, is functioning as a one-party block with the sole purpose of stopping Scotland’s independence.

    Actually, judging by Fabiani’s farce and the Hate Bill farce, Holyrood appears to be working in collusion with that obscure office of some crown parasitically attached to the jugular of our prosecution service, the police, the Lord Advocate, the Civil Service and even some judges to stop Scotland’s independence through the deployment of what looks like fascistic legislation designed to transform our courts into political tools to suppress dissent and remove political inconveniences. This repurposing of the courts is being accelerated with the elimination of juries.

    Our only solution to stop this abuse is to bring down the whole pyramid of colonial and imperialistc farce that is sucking the life out of Scotland’s popular sovereignty.

  95. GM
    Ignored
    says:

    Craig Murray
    Ignored says:
    26 April, 2024 at 8:21 pm
    Alex is a master…’

    Little good has been happening in there in a decade, plenty bad.

    If Regan can extract something from the political class that actually benefits the country/people then that will be something.
    I won’t decry it. Close it down allowing a fresh start might happen but its far more likely to stagger on with much the same personnnel. Why not extract something positive from the bastards? Or block something harmful?

  96. James Jones
    Ignored
    says:

    You’re kidding yourselves if you think the independence movement has a future without political representation. Marches, letters, self-proclamations and imaginative re-interpretations of 300 year-old history (which no independent lawyer can support) are a waste of time and ignore the necessity to convince a significant majority of Scots that independence could work even if they desired it. Most people will have seen devolution as the chance to show how Scotland could govern itself and it should have been an opportunity for national pride but it’s been an absolute “bin fire.” The desperation with which Indy-supporters have tried to salvage it by blaming anyone and everyone except Scots is just sad. Only a fool would give those same failed leaders greater powers to beat them with. It’s over. Long live the Union.

  97. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev, to clarify my comment at 8.52 p.m., I know the salary and expenses would continue if Roddick etc resigned the SNP whip now but they will probably judge that they are more likely to be re-elected in 2026 by staying with the SNP.

  98. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Mia at 9.02: I agree entirely – the whole political system is completely undemocratic and is wrecking everything worthwhile and also ruining the chances of improving the quality of life of the majority in Scotland.

    The current voting system could be made to work to our benefit if there was an umbrella group for candidates of any persuasion who agree to restore direct democracy as we had under the Claim of Right 1689. The umbrella could be called Claim of Right Direct Democracy.

    I was thinking that such candidates would also be independence supporters but that isn’t necessarily true. However once direct democracy was in place that would put an end to the problem of people not voting because they think that “all politicians are the same” – once politicians are immediately answerable for damaging our rights I think we would never see a GRR or Hate Crime bill ever again.

    And it would also speed up exiting from the Union as any SNP member would be told by voters what job they were elected to do.

  99. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Mia @ 9:02 pm

    “to stop Scotland’s independence through the deployment of what looks like fascistic legislation designed to transform our courts into political tools to suppress dissent and remove political inconveniences”

    Indeed, and it is worth remembering here that fascism is the standard Imperial fall-back position, more especially ‘whenever colonialism is imperiled’. As Memmi wrote: “every colonial nation carries the seeds of fascist temptation in its bosom.”

    With Devolution being a half way house colonial administration tasked to halt the independence movement, and in such instances Fanon warned that: “this fascism at high interest…..is the dialectic result of states which were semi-colonial”.

    And, as Robin Kelley confirmed: “the real crime of fascism was the application to white people of colonial procedures”, whilst asserting that fascism is of course mostly familiar to imperial powers in that “imperialism gave birth to fascism”.

    And, in regard to British imperialism and its exceptionalism, which, according to Bunche can be seen in the context of: “the doctrine of Fascism with its extreme jingoism, its exaggerated exaltation of the state and its comic-opera glorification of race”.

    Cesaire summarises the predicament of any colonial society maintaining that there is “a direct link between the logic of colonialism and the rise of fascism” and that “Civilization helps us locate the origins of fascism within colonialism itself”.

    Hence “fascistic legislation” should be viewed as part and parcel of colonial rule and the UK-Scottish Government’s efforts do appear to fit the bill!

  100. Tartanpigsy
    Ignored
    says:

    Can everyone be clear on this point at least
    There are no masters this side of the Atlantic, they are at best projecting a greater message which originates in the States, at worst globalist serfs doing their masters bidding
    The US will always oppose Scottish independence due to our geopolitical positioning and the risk, however small, of losing military bases on our territory. The English hang on to the coat tails of US foreign policy in every way possible.
    Don’t delude yourselves

  101. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    No confidence would usher in a labour Government.

    I’d rather have a labour government than Sturgeonism for a day longer.

    I can tolerate Anarsehole Sarwar. We must kill the SNP until nothing is left.

    I FUCKING HATE. THE SNP!

  102. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Alex Salmond must explain why he’s instructing Ash Regan to prop up that dead fucking party.

    Sturgeon – she tried to put you in jail big eck! Fuck her. Ram a stake through her political ideology. And sent Satan back to hell!!

    I despise the SNP. Salmond! I love You! I absolutely love you!

    Bring the bastards down!

  103. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Salmond. He’s faithful through and through.

    Pull the plug on the SNP. Kill them. Scotland deserves better.

    Salmond’s revenge. Go for it! Would love to see it!

  104. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    *kill the SNP metaphorically. The deamonic Sturgeonite SNP. Make them go bankrupt. That’s what I meant.

    Sarwar might actually get something right. Jackie Bailie For health Minister. She loves the NHS!

    They might get something right?

    Sturgeonism has to go. And that horrible crook must be locked up until the end of time!

  105. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    I love Alex Salmond. But you’d be insane to put all your eggs into the AS basket. That is exactly how we ended up with this perpetual Sturgeon nightmare.

    AS waltzed out the door and glibly handed her the keys to the Independence movement. He clearly did not have a clue what she was.

    No one has paid a higher price than him individually… but as a nation… the damage done is unquantifiable in comparison.

  106. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    *wrong choice of words. In relation to my last post. I got carried away. – Kill them metaphorically. – Bankrupt them and take them out of Government, that’s all I meant by that. Not literally. I apologise for my poor word choice. Nothing more nothing less. Vote them out!

  107. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    *Previous posts. Metaphorically speaking. I do not want to go to jail for Hate Crime. I am simply saying I want the SNP to be bankrupted. And the government brought down. And the party to be liquidated.

    I would vote to bring them down. And build the Alba Party as the new nationalist party!

  108. Sven
    Ignored
    says:

    David Hannah @ 22.04 & 22.16

    Pretty sure we all know your sense of humour, David, and know you’re just kidding us on.

  109. Mia
    Ignored
    says:

    “There are no masters this side of the Atlantic”

    You appear to have forgotten the English crown. If I am not mistaken, the Treaty of Union is currently the only reason ensuring the right of the English monarch to Scotland’s crown.

    The English crown is currently the entity at this side of the Atlantic with the biggest vested-interest for the treaty of union to continue.

    Incidentally, it was a representative of the crown in the form of a Lord Advocate who almost lost his arse trying to stop the Keatings case. It was also another lord advocate who embarrassed her profession by temporarily usurping control over Scotland’s legislative power from the people of Scotland and handed it to the English crown represented by an English court and English judges so these could stop the referendum bill entering holyrood using English law convention which has no business in Scotland. This is effectively imposing absolute rule on Scotland, which violates the claim of right 1689.

    It was the prosecution service, representing the crown, who brought a selective case of “jigsaw identification” against Mr Murray, but rather conveniently and selectively, left alone all those reporters who actually identified the alphabetes.

    It was a judge representing the crown who sent Mr Murray to prison following the most stupid, infantile and discriminatory reasoning somebody could have ever come across in the third decade of the 21st century.

    It was the crown agent of the day who moved across boundaries between executive and judicial power and instigated the police to bring forward a criminal case against Mr Salmond on trumped up charges and potential perjurers.

    It was the crown agent and the representative of the crown lord advocate who gagged the Holyrood committee in Mr Salmond’s case to suppress information of high public interest.

    If we are to believe the circulating rumors, it is the crown office who is currently stalling operation Branchform and protecting the ex FM from being arrested.

    Using your own words: “Don’t delude yourself”. At least one master IS at this side of the Atlantic.

  110. ScottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    So perhaps Ash appeals directly to the SNP membership and leverages its voice at the last meaningful conference in 2019. Scottish energy company, independence referendum (and a Scottish currency). No doubt the greens will reject that for their libertarian idea of PFI for trees. Why would a green membership want their representatives to vote against a public energy company?

    The party snubbed its membership once, so why not remind the membership..

  111. Northcode
    Ignored
    says:

    James Che

    All good ideas, James. And they would be of great value in different circumstances. But unfortunately I don’t think they’ll be effective in Scotland at this time.

    Scotland, I believe, has a very specific and unique problem that can’t at this stage be solved by the kinds of action you suggest.

    In my opinion, and it’s only an opinion and worth exactly what all opinion not backed up by hard data are worth – very little, even AUOB marches have reached the limit of their effect on the awareness of the Scottish people, although it’s essential they continue to take place.

    By the time Scotland is in a state where those kinds of actions designed to raise the awareness of a people would be effective, they probably won’t be necessary.

    I’ll explain my thinking in another comment

    By the way, I’ll have the trike with a flag or banner duck taped tae ma heid 🙂

  112. Northcode
    Ignored
    says:

    Sarah @9:47pm

    “The current voting system could be made to work to our benefit if there was an umbrella group for candidates of any persuasion who agree to restore direct democracy as we had under the Claim of Right 1689. The umbrella could be called Claim of Right Direct Democracy.”

    This is a good idea. It could have ‘legs’ if the support and motivation can be found to make it work.

  113. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m sure Salmond once described the Bute house agreement as a poisoned chalice.

    The Wee alba book roadshow. He’s been to every town and city to talk Independence. Don’t forget it. Big Eck has it all. I trust him and only him.

    Will Alba not be blamed for the next two years for propping up corruption? They would end the SNP. Finish them off for good. Ash Regan should say. Bye bye SNP! She can finish them off! With a cross in a box!

    Guys like Steven Flynn will be unemployed. How delightful!

  114. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    It is quite funny watching the greens getting all precious about Humza ending the BHA. It was Slater that said indy was not a red line issue for a deal with Labour, it was the greens that droped indy from their campaign banner. Now we have one bursting into tears on the radio.
    Why in earth did the snp do a deal with this bunch.
    Oh yes Nicola preferred that to vote snp 1 and alba 2.

    Where is she now anyway???

    I heard Salmond saying whoever was advising Humza was not advising for the benefit of Humza.

    He clearly has a talent for picking friends

  115. Hatuey
    Ignored
    says:

    Tartanpigsy: “There are no masters this side of the Atlantic, they are at best projecting a greater message which originates in the States…”

    The “greater message” has changed in recent years. All of a sudden it sounds like “anything goes” and the post-1945 rule book has been ditched.

    There’s a sort of smug confidence about them these days that comes across as desperate recklessness — desperate, we assume, because we are moving towards multipolarity and there are challengers to US hegemony, BRICS, China, threats to the dollar system, etc.

    But there could be another explanation for the apparent contempt and disregard for international law we have seen recently, an explanation other than desperation and insecurity.

    Maybe they are actually super-confident. Maybe what we are reading as a failing empire causing trouble on the way out is actually an empire that feels more sure of itself than ever.

    Maybe they have some new toys.

  116. Kcor
    Ignored
    says:

    The likes of Regan and Cherry will either vote against the motions or abstain.

    Regan is not fit to be in ALBA, IMHO.

    Cherry has done ZERO for independence since becoming an SNP MP.

    What does she have against Alex Salmond?

    Is she best friends with some of his accusers?

  117. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “The likes of Regan and Cherry will either vote against the motions or abstain.”

    Joanna Cherry won’t do anything, she’s a Westminster MP.

  118. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “It’s not a daft strategy. The idea is to coax average SNP voters over with constructive rhetoric and avoid being seen as a party of wreckers.”

    It is a daft strategy. They’re NOT INTERESTED. Sturgeon did too good a job on them.

  119. DebzoHighland
    Ignored
    says:

    It will take 2 dedicated Indy Parties to divest Holyrood of the Unionists. One standing for Constituencies & one on the List.
    There are SNP MSPs with clearly documented mental health issues, like Emma Roddick….pushing the abolishment of Women’s privacy rights & the sexual indoctrination of young children in primary schools…..but their are also sane, dedicated & focussed MSP’s like Fergus Ewing in the party who still champion passionately the promotion of Independence.
    Hopefully those that wish to decimate women & children’s rights will Fuck off to the Greens & we can vote them out of parliament ASAP!
    But…..please don’t loose sight of the fact that we need 2 Indy Parties/Groups in order to win a Holyrood Election & Rid ourselves of the Unionists!
    Ash’s offer of an olive branch to save Humza has already (positively) changed some SNP supporters view towards Alba. Where before Alba were deemed a detriment rather than a positive entity for Indy…..in the minds of the Nicolites.
    So yes….Ash has made the right decision, to offer the olive branch, even if she has had to hold her nose to do so!
    Bottom line…..we need 2 parties, working together at Holyrood to oust the Unionists & enable a clear a path to our Independence!
    So…..to those that accuse Ash of being a ("Tractor" - Ed) to our cause…FFS wise up!
    We need 2 parties to win Holyrood & it can only happen with conversation & agreement with the SNP.
    Yes….they have done sweet FA to further Indy in the past 9 years under Nicola…..but we must recognise that many still think that the sun shone out of her arse & she was the best FM ever. These folk are welded to the SNP & will only vote for them!
    But, at the end of the day….SNP are still the biggest party in Scotland & they are worth one last ditch attempt to persuade them to put country before party.
    So, lets give them one last chance folks….based on Ash’s request for women & children’s rights to be respected.
    With the Greens gone, it may be possible!
    Only time will tell!
    If a Scottish Election is forced…..SNP will either ditch their devisive Gender bollocks……or die a death!
    Their choice!
    Over 50% of the electorate want Independence…..SNP’s supposed reason for being for the past 90 years!
    Only 0.04% of our electorate want to pretend to be the opposite sex of their birth & invade the private spaces & sports of women!
    Never ever heard of transmen demanding to access men’s private spaces….strange that, eh?
    It’s as if only mentally imbalanced males want to access women’s spaces, sports etc…whilst wearing a bit of lippy for authenticity!
    Which should ring very loud alarm bells for both heterosexual & lesbian women!
    The Hate Crime Bill does not even protect women! And the proposed new Misogyny Bill will include men pretending to be women! Unbelievable!
    Perhaps the SNP need to look up Misogyny in the dictionary!
    I am more than happy to lobby for a third private space being provided for trans folk in any new buildings…..but I have absolutely no wish to share my private public space with a man…no matter what he identifies as!
    Excuse the French…..but if you were born with a cock, you have absolutely no right to invade my female private public spaces!
    Additional to that sentiment…..leave our kids alone! Let them live an innocent childhood….free from induced sexulisation….most especially in primary school!
    You shouldn’t be allowed to tell children that they can be whatever sex they want to be……because they are children & will believe you!
    And you deffinately have no right to encourage any child to change their gender at school & keep it a secret from their parents! As parents, we are legally responsible for our children’s safeguarding until they reach adulthood. So who the hell do think you are to undermine that at school….secretly, without their parents permission?
    You don’t! They are our children & our responsibility….so get your grubby sexulising paws off our vulnerable kids!
    My 10 year old neighbour’s daughter told me that every morning her school day is disrupted until Alex decides whether he wants to be Alex or Alex today! As Alex, he uses the boys toilets & as Alexa, he uses the girls toilets!
    And sometimes he even changes his mind half way through the day….& they all have to change their pronouns towards him to suit his choices…..because if the don’t….they will be disrespecting him!
    If I had a child in that class I would be constantly at the school demanding that my child be educated….instead of having their daily lessons disrupted by an attention seeking individual. It is utterly pathetic for schools to have to endure this level of disruption by one disillusioned individual…..who’s parents probably don’t even know about his professed transgenderism….because teachers are not allowed to tell parents of their child’s supposed transgenderism!
    From a parents perspective…..the whole situation is perverted!
    Heterosexual Pride rules! It’s worked for a millennium & we can even produce babies!
    It’s a guaranteed future for the world!
    Put 100 women & 100 men on a desert island & 100 years later there will be a thriving community.
    Put 100 transwomen & 100 men on a desert island & 100 years later there will be 200 male skeletons!
    That’s the reality….so why would any sane individual buy into their fantasy….or allow their kids to buy into it & destroy their futures?

    Stop sexulising children! It is perverted!
    The current SNP have seriously lost their way. Gender politics are their priority without a doubt. Hopefully ditching the Case Report denying, perverted Greens will allow the SNP to focus on Independence again.
    If not, the 90 year old party will be culled off by the decent, family orientated people of Scotland in the next couple of elections.

  120. James Barr Gardner
    Ignored
    says:

    Val McDermid latest book “Past Lying”………….

  121. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    DebzoHighland says on 27 April 2024 at 1:07 am:

    “So, lets give them one last chance folks”

    You then go on to spout:
    “The current SNP have seriously lost their way.”

    FFS! Make your mind up or stay away from the glue. Wee tip for you, you can change your “username” as many times as you like but you can’t disguise your ignorant style of commenting.

  122. Hatuey
    Ignored
    says:

    GM: “If Regan can extract something from the political class that actually benefits the country/people then that will be something.”

    The big for risk for Alba is being associated with the losers. Sure, they might win over a few bewildered SNP voters, win some credibility, some attention, but that needs to be weighed against the definite cost of not only associating with a party that is widely despised, but also propping it up in government, thereby prolonging the country’s agony.

    This conversation is most likely moot anyway. Humza would lose more support in Holyrood than he would gain by pandering to Regan and Alba. On the other side of the equation, Regan and Alba might benefit by wanting to be seen to be constructive, cooperative, and conciliatory, but we shouldn’t assume they actually do.

    It’s politics. Assume everyone is playing games.

  123. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    Dave Hannah @9:54 & 9:56

    Does labour’s performance in Rutherglen not help make Sarwars motion the definitive game changer (finaly)?

    ie Surely the only way the vote can swing back to labour is if it apologises, in advance, for Brexit, COVID, better together & illegal wars – and if it does that, there’ll be no need for an election because they’re already pro independence, ergo Ash is 100% correct to lend* her confidence to the man who convinced Sarwar to bring them over from the dark side..

    *The SNP right Wingers, blamed by the Greens for ending the BHA, may be suspicious of any such deal, but must certainly have enough influence to support Labour’s push for the defacto referendum themselves, without Alba needing to get further involved until campaigning starts in earnest.

  124. Lynn
    Ignored
    says:

    @Mia

    It certainly feels as though some form of agenda has been at play across the political spectrum to shift society in its entirety along a different path .
    However society seems to have pushed back considerably and the disconnect between political representatives and the electorate has widened. They have lost control of the narrative.
    There have been points over the last few years where all reason seemed to be challenged so viciously that it became very concerning.

    The vast majority are now just looking for some integrity in the process , some sense of fair play and some moral decency. But I think we are all wondering where it can be found . Certainly not in the current Government.
    It’s shocking to think Embezzlement chargers are now in circulation. The schemes used by certain individuals have come full circle . Let’s hope the engineers of recent years , the real decision makers are too feeling the heat and we can be freed from the hands of the unelected elites who believe they can control our very thoughts .

    Many thanks to the Rev . As I have said before I am merely interested in knowing about all sides of the independence debate , not made my mind up yet but I think he is the only voice I trust to speak truthfully and with a strength that most journalists can only wish to have .

  125. Andy Anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    This conjecture is all good stuff. As an independence supporter I feel that the only party that understands is the small ISP party. No politician at Holyrood is truly interested either that or they do not have a clue.
    To me the real issue to address is the abolition of all the gender laws, stopping the abuse of children caused by these policies. To do that Holyrood must have a Scottish GE so that we can tell Labour and the SNP that supporting these policies that it is not good enough. None of us should vote for the SNP or Labour. Abstain and spoil your ballot papers. Vote for none of them. That alone would be a massively powerful message.

  126. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Lynn @ 8:47 am

    “I am merely interested in knowing about all sides of the independence debate”

    In understanding what is really happening in a colonial society that is seeking to decolonize (i.e. to become independent), it is important to consider relevant theoretical aspects which determine the only two possible outcomes of the struggle:

    https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/18/determinants-of-independence-colonialism/

  127. Northcode
    Ignored
    says:

    Sarah @26th April 9:47pm

    “The umbrella could be called Claim of Right Direct Democracy.”

    To expand on my earlier reply to your comment I would say this.

    Although I think your idea is a good one I also think it would face the same problem other political parties and initiatives truly supportive of Scottish independence face.

    The problem is the political system operating in Scotland isn’t Scotland’s. It’s an alien system owned and operated by a foreign power hellbent on retaining its Scottish colony.

    And after a close call in 2014 that foreign power reinforced its control over Scotland’s alien political system by corrupting the SNP – the only wholly Scottish party at that time with the popular support of the Scots. Support that took decades to build.

    Now that the SNP threat to England’s hegemony over Scotland’s ‘democratic’ political and electoral systems has been neutralised, new initiatives, good initiatives like yours, will struggle to gain traction with the Scots.

    Not because the Scots would be against such initiatives (quite the opposite I would suggest), but because they won’t be given much in the way of opportunity to be made aware of them – not in any positive way.

    The mechanisms of distributing public information fairly and en masse to the Scots are also firmly controlled by those who control their democratic systems – note how Alba struggled, and still struggles, to have its voice heard via the MSM and other mainstream public information services despite having a famous and hugely respected Scottish political figure at its helm.

    I believe the route to Scotland’s liberation will take a different path. A path that bypasses the corrupt ‘democratic’ systems deployed in Scotland by a foreign power.

    But my view doesn’t negate the value your idea has in raising the awareness of Scots to their Claim of Right.

  128. Agent x
    Ignored
    says:

    “Nicola Sturgeon pulls of out MP committee showdown following husband’s charge
    The former First Minister has withdrawn from appearing before a parliamentary committee next week.
    By Christian Calgie, Senior Political Correspondent
    22:00, Mon, Apr 22, 2024 | UPDATED: 22:20, Mon, Apr 22, 2024
    Bookmark
    Yousaf says Sturgeon will campaign for SNP at general election

    Nicola Sturgeon has pulled out of a forthcoming Commons committee appearance, just days after her husband was arrested and charged in connection to the embezzlement of SNP party funds.

    The former First Minister was set to answer questions from the Scottish Affairs Committee a week today, however today it was announced the appearance has been pulled.

    A statement by the MP committee said: “Nicola Sturgeon’s appearance in front of the Scottish Affairs Committee, originally planned for Monday, April 29, has been postponed due to a change in witness availability”.”
    ————————————————————-

    “Nicola Sturgeon was pictured at a glitzy awards ceremony on Friday night without her wedding ring – just days after her husband was arrested over SNP finances.

    Despite the potential prosecution of her spouse, and the SNP falling apart in recent days, she seemed in good spirits as she arrived at the red carpet event. She was spotted partying with pals Val McDermid, Joanne Sharp, and Hannah Bardell at last night’s bash, which is part of Lesbian Visibility Week. ”

    —————————————————–

    Nothing wrong with her then!

  129. Andy Ellis
    Ignored
    says:

    I see current political realities still haven’t percolated through to the hard of thinking “cunning plans for indy” brigade BTL here, who are still doggedly touting their patented snake oil that there is some extra parliamentary short cut to the sunny uplands of independence.

    To paraphrase the old Wendy’s add though “where’s the beef”?

    I see an awful lot of fluffy bun discussing centuries old treaties, hot political and constitutional takes that have no appreciable academic, legal or political support, and no evidence of a huge popular groundswell of support for these alternate paths to indy.

    If you’re honestly trying to sell the idea that the Scots in general can’t be persuaded to get off their arses and just put a cross in a box on a ballot paper, but they will be enthused enough to construct a mass movement to ignore the totality of the Westminster and Holyrood governance systems and declare independence with a majority that is so overwhelming and convincing that it persuades international institutions, the UN, EU and the whole system of international law to recognise this novel approach – which no other people ever appears to have used – I have several bridges and some magic beans you’ll definitely be interested in.

  130. Ian Stewart
    Ignored
    says:

    And you really still think Independence for Scotland is a good idea?

    This farce actually makes the U.K. government look sane, which is quite an achievement.

  131. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Scots will never gain political support for an independent Scotland movement from politicians in Scotland not because our ideas arn’t sound or correct,

    But because it would change politicians employment and finances out of the bigger unionist trough.
    They are feared of the detrimental effect it will have on them personally,

    This is about the politicians looking or listening to Scots or Scotland.
    There their out of Self interest, money,
    As it was in 1707,
    nothing much has changed from old history to the present day. So old politics continue as was.

  132. Andy Ellis
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Stewart 11.20am

    Any pretensions British nationalists and particularly Scottish unionists had to being the “least worst” option were fatally undermined by brexit, BoJo and Truss as PM’s and the fact that New Nu Labour are functionally indistinguishable from the Tories.

    Scottish politics may indeed be something of a bin fire, but the saving grace of independence is, as we have chiselled in stone on our own parliament:

    “When we had a king, and a chancellor, and parliament-men o’ our ain, we could aye peeble them wi’ stanes when they werena gude bairns.”

    Time to lay in a supply o’ stanes, not sink in to the delusion that Westminster rule is somehow preferable.

  133. Captain Caveman
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Stewart says:
    “And you really still think Independence for Scotland is a good idea?

    This farce actually makes the U.K. government look sane, which is quite an achievement.”

    Sorry to say, but this pretty much nails it for me, too, but it does make you think *why*?

    It’s hardly as though Scotland is somehow populated by vapid, talent-free cretins; it is (or at least was) renown as a nation of industrious enterprise, entrepreneurship and great standards of education. What is it about the prospect of public life that attracts none of the above and in fact the complete opposite? After all, this problem seems to manifest elsewhere besides Scotland too (albeit to a demonstrably lesser extent, Scotland being the worst example of it that I can think of).

    I don’t actually know the answer. I might speculate that it’s a product of social media; maybe the prospect of one’s private life being raked over with a microscope by some hack or other puts most off (I know it certainly does in my case, balls to that). People have careers, family and in some cases employees to protect, so does it become a case of either only the terminally boring and/or numpties with nowt to lose end up pursuing it?

    It never used to be like this; plenty of senior politicians in the 50s, 60s, 70s and even 80s had, ahem, “interesting” lives (past and/or present) and it didn’t unduly impede them (I’m of course talking about benign stuff like having mistresses etc. here, not the Jimmy Savile type stuff). This is even more true of countries like France and Italy, who tend to be a lot less uptight about such things.

    I suppose it doesn’t help either that standards of education have slid so badly since they binned off Grammar schools in the 70s. The populace at large have been endlessly rewarded for mediocrity and stupidity, and the end results are only too clear in terms of the basis of how people vote (if they vote at all), Brexit being a recent example.

  134. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Stewart
    Ignored
    says:
    27 April, 2024 at 11:20 am

    And you really still think Independence for Scotland is a good idea?

    This farce actually makes the U.K. government look sane, which is quite an achievement.
    ======================================================================================================================================

    English Govt Sane? Can I have what you are smoking Mr Yoon?

  135. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Andy Ellis @ 12:37 pm

    “Any pretensions British nationalists and particularly Scottish unionists had”

    Is there any difference? Both hold to the same ‘superior’ British nationalist political ideology and values of the colonial oppressor as far as keeping Scots and Scottish culture subordinate is concerned.

  136. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Northcode: you are correct that any new information/campaign needs access to the MSM and isn’t going to get it. This has been a recognised problem since 2014. If only we had people like Gordon Wilson, leader of the SNP, who set up a pirate radio! Or if Alec Salmond had managed to become editor/owner of the Scotsman.

  137. Andy Ellis
    Ignored
    says:

    @Alf Baird 1.44pm

    There’s little difference to me, but there probably is to them. I’ve always liked Derek Bateman’s quote which prefaces the Wee Black Book:

    It is only here in Scotland that we pirouette on the head of a pin over patriotism and nationalism. Who else have you ever met who boasted:??”I love my country but don’t want it to govern itself. I much prefer it to be in a minority in another parliament where it can always be outvoted and where parties we don’t support will dictate our budget and policies. I don’t think my country should have independence because it really wouldn’t be able to do the job properly.”??

    Most foreign listeners would reply: “Then it’s not your country at all. You can’t care enough about it to call it your nation. You may call yourself Scottish but you are in fact British. Britain is your country.”

    Of course one of the reasons I like the quote so much is that it triggers virtually all Scottish unionists, “…I’m a proud Scot, but…” 90 minute patriot types.

    However it’s not *only* or even mainly for that reason. The quote resonates because it describes a deeper truth: some may think it’s insulting, or that it’s hyperbolic, but I’ve never understood why anyone who regards themselves as Scottish could oppose independence, particularly in the post Thatcher political environment.

    Doubtless many Czechs, Slovaks, Italians, Ruthenians, Slovenes, Croats, Serbs and Hungarians had some attachment to the Austro-Hungarian state prior to 1918. Similarly some of the non-Turkish peoples of the Ottoman Empire doubtless thought “Ottomanism” might be a thing after the Young Turks revolution, because they probably didn’t foresee that the Empires they lived in would soon come tumbling down around their ears.

    I don’t think many Scots unionists have the same excuses that the peoples of pre 1918 empires did. In the end it doesn’t matter what their reasons and motivations for opposing independence are.

    They may honestly think we’re “too wee, too poor, too stupid” (however hard they try to dress up that that is not their motivation). They may really think we’re “Better Together” and Scotland is really just a glorified county with a more colourful history, some unique but largely tangential governance structures, education and legal systems and a funny accent. It’s the Hothersall Effect: to them, there’s more uniting a poor person in Banff and Bootle than there is separating them because they live in different countries.

    The ultimate difference is that I don’t really care what British nationalists in the rest of the UK think. I do kinda care what Scottish unionists think though, because it’s them we have to convince to switch sides, as many of us have done before them.

  138. Captain Caveman
    Ignored
    says:

    Andy Ellis said:
    “However it’s not *only* or even mainly for that reason. The quote resonates because it describes a deeper truth: some may think it’s insulting, or that it’s hyperbolic…”

    As an avid lurker round these parts, I’ve read your erudite musings with some interest over the years, but they’re often (IMO) problematic for more or less the same reason – high on emotion and wishful thinking but ultimately very low on detail?

    Looking from the outside in, by far the biggest problem the Indy movement has always had – and has actually now become even worse – is a complete lack of credibility and detail. In a nutshell: it’s all fine and dandy simply saying it’s only natural that the Scots should be independent and appealing to the heart/ego, but *how* is this going to be done? You’re expecting millions of people to take a giant leap of faith – with their jobs, careers, money, houses – real people in the real world with much to lose – on the back of what, exactly? A leap of faith? Where is the credible prospectus? You’ve had DECADES to produce one, where is it? Where’s the beef mate? Where are the grown-up answers to entirely understandable, fundamental, hard-headed questions regarding a whole range of critical issues, from the economy, currency, defence, the divorce bill, pensions? The list goes on!

    The 2013 SNP White Paper was a complete joke, outmoded and superseded by real-world events before the ink was even dry. As piss poor as it undoubtedly was, 11 further years have passed and yet there’s been no update that I’m aware of.

    Are you seriously expecting people to entrust their futures to the current Scottish Political Class – a more sorry bunch of losers I am literally unable to conceive of? Would you give any one of them a real job? Has any of them even ever had one between them?

    If I were a Scot – and independently minded – I’d be banging my head on my desk. Who is going to step up who is actually credible and able to carry the Country forward, and WHERE’S THE BEEF!

  139. Lynn
    Ignored
    says:

    Thank you @Alf Baird
    I will have a read .

  140. Andy Ellis
    Ignored
    says:

    @Capt Caveman 5.24pm

    I’m always a tad suspicious of people demanding that every i be dotted and every t crossed though. We did this to death during #indyref1 frankly: it was bollocks then and it’s bollocks on stilts now after the idiocy of brexit, BoJo and Truss as PM’s and the ongoing bin fire that is the UK “Empire v02” Project.

    Of course there are risks: there always were and always will be. As we saw in 2012-14, Project Fear were able to weaponise the cost/benefit analysis such that people ultimately voted No. I suspect many of them now have buyers remorse, but be that as it may, the CURRENT cost/benefit analysis looks rather different, no?

    Even many unionists I know (which is a totally subjective selection, granted) now accept that the risks of independence now look rather less scary than they did in 2104, and the risks of staying in the UK look considerably higher. Few reasonable people could now say that the No campaign’s prospectus of stability, staying in the EU, fiscal competence, not having a fiscal black hole, the UK “punching above its weight” etc. now hold any water.

    Of course, none of this will ever convince the hard core on either side: their world views are fixed and they’re unlikely ever to change sides.

    The whole point is that there is a tranche of undecided “sway-able” voters in the middle who can be turned. The 2013 White Paper may have been too timid: it was certainly deficient WRT the currency, and to getting the EU on side or having a ready alternative like EFTA with a view to acceding to the EU after a referendum.

    In truth however, many of the criticisms of the 2012-14 campaign aren’t really sincere, because they were asking for the impossible (absolute certainty and unreasonable levels of detail), whilst offering precisely nothing in return by way of guarantees that the alternative – staying in the union – wouldn’t turn out to be a worse choice.

    If you can honestly put your hand on your heart and say that you think Scotland and the rest of the UK would be in a worse place today if we’d voted Yes in 2014, then I’m hardly likely to trust that your analysis is worth listening to about whether independence in the near future would be worse than staying in the current omnishambles that is the UK.

  141. Captain Caveman
    Ignored
    says:

    Andy Ellis says:
    “I’m always a tad suspicious of people demanding that every i be dotted and every t crossed though. We did this to death during #indyref1 frankly: it was bollocks then and it’s bollocks on stilts now …”

    I almost spat my coffee out at that, Andy! Do you honestly think that (presumably) worried would-be Indy voters who are fed up with the status quo – but understandably very nervous about making a huge, irreversible leap which could well be out of the frying pan and into the fire wanting to see some basic substance and detail is a tiresome inconvenience…? It is surely an absolute prerequisite! If we accept the need for a manifesto on the part of political parties merely at elections, then why not a much more detailed prospectus (as written by someone who actually has a clue about such matters) when you’re literally proposing to tear the UK apart? (Rightly or wrongly)

    I don’t mean to sound in any way rude, but that is just incredibly naïve? Most sensible people who actually have something to lose, be that their house, career, pension pot or whatever, just aren’t going to do that on faith, just because “Scotland is a country like any other and it should be independent”. Whilst that might indeed be true, there’s a heck of a lot more graft needed to make that a tenable reality.

    Maybe that’s the point: no-one in the Indy movement has thus far put in the sheer graft to put together a credible route map and prospectus, is it hubris/laziness? Or is it simply that no-one has the where with all to do so? (Can anyone here seriously see any of those numpties in the SNP pulling off such a feat, didn’t they “headhunt” the current FM from an O2 call centre?)

    IMO, there are no short cuts in life. If you want something big like this, then someone, somewhere – with the nous to boot – needs to put in a few shifts for starters. Until and unless that happens, nothing is going to change IMO.



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