Everything is transphobic
The modern world is an ideological minefield, readers, and is increasingly almost as dangerous as a real one. Having the wrong opinions about things can easily get you fired, ostracised from polite society, arrested or beaten up, and nowhere is this more the case than in the sphere of gender politics.
The extremely brave intersex woman Claire Graham (aka @MRKHvoice on Twitter, her latest account after a series of arbitrary bannings for upsetting the wrong people with statements of biological fact) recently compiled a list of things which are now deemed “transphobic” by trans activists, and given the transience and vulnerability of anything published on Twitter, we thought it was a good idea to preserve it here, with some additions of our own and from others.
[EDIT 9 Dec 2019: Claire has of course now been permanently banned and her original list deleted by Twitter.]
We’ve previously noted how alarmingly this sort of extremist, intolerant and openly violent male bullying in the guise of progressive political correctness has been used in recent months to silence all sorts of people (mainly but not exclusively feminists).
Politicians, police and numerous other authorities in both Scotland and the UK have been complicit – whether intentionally or not – in enabling a terrifying “woke” culture of censorship and intimidation in which the wishes of the vast majority of the public are about to be simply ridden roughshod over, resulting in the creation of laws which could have (and are already having) absolutely horrific consequences.
Anyone raising issues, however, is liable to find themselves at the centre of a vicious storm of outrage, abuse or worse. So if you’re concerned about the imminent abolition of sex but want to stay out of trouble, here’s the stuff you need to avoid.
1. Gender-neutral toilets are transphobic.
2. The desire for privacy is transphobic.
4. Having a “genital preference” is transphobic.
6. Talking about prison reform is transphobic.
7. Women’s rights are transphobic.
8. Every dictionary in the world is transphobic.
10. Transwomen writing about trans schoolchildren are transphobic.
11. Liking someone’s tweets is transphobic.
12. Retweeting a poem is transphobic.
13. Debating proposed changes to the law is transphobic.
14. Telling parents about their child’s sex change is transphobic.
15. The word “bisexual” is transphobic.
16. The words “gay” and “lesbian” are transphobic.
17. Writing about “men” and “women” is transphobic.
18. Saying men and women are different is transphobic.
19. Making jokes about genitalia is transphobic.
20. Writing books with transgender characters in them is transphobic.
21. Keeping foxes out of henhouses is transphobic.
22. Holding public meetings about feminism is transphobic.
23. The entire British media is transphobic.
24. Drag queens are transphobic.
25. The phrase “ladies and gentlemen” is transphobic.
26. Thinking you know if someone’s male or female is transphobic.
28. The Daily Show is transphobic.
29. The Colbert Report is transphobic.
31. Mike And Molly is transphobic.
32. The Cleveland Show is transphobic.
33. How I Met Your Mother is transphobic.
34. South Park is transphobic.
35. Family Guy is transphobic.
36. Two And A Half Men is transphobic.
37. Doctor Who is transphobic.
38. Pink woolly hats are transphobic.
41. Dogs are transphobic.
42. Facial recognition software is transphobic.
43. Bank security checks are transphobic.
44. Airport security checks are transphobic.
45. Chocolate bars are transphobic.
46. Nice weather is transphobic.
47. Climate change is transphobic.
49. Mothers Day is transphobic.
50. The phrase “Mother Earth” is transphobic.
51. Martina Navratilova is transphobic.
52. Paula Radcliffe MBE is transphobic.
53. Sharron Davies MBE is transphobic.
54. Dame Jenni Murray is transphobic.
55. Dame Kelly Holmes is transphobic.
56. Dame Edna Everage is transphobic.
57. Germaine Greer is transphobic.
58. Meghan Murphy is transphobic.
60. The Vagina Monologues is transphobic.
61. Cervical smear tests are transphobic.
62. The modern remake of The X-Files is transphobic.
63. The modern remake of Tootsie is transphobic.
64. Academic research into transgender issues is transphobic.
66. Psychiatric research into transgender issues is transphobic.
66. Trans people talking about trans rights is transphobic.
66. Saying that women get abortions is transphobic.
67. Saying that women have periods is transphobic.
68. Using anatomically-accurate language is transphobic.
69. Investigating the circumstances of child rape is transphobic.
70. Wanting to have sex with trans people is transphobic.
71. Not wanting to have sex with trans people is transphobic.
72. Gendering cats is transphobic.
73. Calling girls in an all-girl school “girls” is transphobic.
74. Ace Ventura: Pet Detective is transphobic.
75. Crocodile Dundee is transphobic.
76. The Naked Gun 33 1/3 is transphobic.
78. The Silence Of The Lambs is transphobic.
79. The 40-Year-Old Virgin is transphobic.
80. Trainspotting is transphobic.
81. Dressed To Kill is transphobic.
82. The Crying Game is transphobic.
83. Diamonds Are Forever is transphobic.
84. Paddington is transphobic. (Yes, Paddington. Shut up, transphobe.)
85. Correctly defining the word “castration” is transphobic.
88. Bud Light beer is transphobic.
89. Protecting young children from abuse is transphobic.
90. Not being allowed to call women “scum” is transphobic.
91. Female sport is transphobic.
92. Including transgender characters in videogames is transphobic.
93. MPs talking to women’s groups is transphobic.
94. Graham Linehan is transphobic.
95. Ricky Gervais is transphobic.
96. Frankie Boyle is transphobic.
97. The director of Queer Up North is transphobic.
98. At least 37,000 people on Twitter are transphobic.
and of course,
100. Wings Over Scotland is transphobic.
So don’t do, say, read, watch, play, listen to or just stand too near any of those and you should be fine, folks. Good luck.
[UPDATES]
101. Transgender writer Miranda Yardley is transphobic.
102. Telling young children their bodies are fine is transphobic.
103. Supporting a trade union picket line is transphobic.
104. Debating women’s issues is transphobic.
105. ScotRail is transphobic.
106. Acknowledging the medical condition of intersex is transphobic.
107. Philosophy is transphobic.
108. Birth certificates are transphobic.
109. Being imprisoned if you commit a crime is transphobic.
110. Working in a gender clinic is transphobic.
111. Body hair is transphobic.
112. Medicine is transphobic.
113. Peaceful protest using stickers is transphobic.
114. Deciding that you’re not transgender after all is transphobic.
115. Not tweeting about corsets is transphobic.
116. Being pansexual is transphobic.
117. Pregnancy is transphobic.
118. Childhood is transphobic.
119. Questioning gender identity is transphobic.
120. Banning men from women-only spaces is transphobic.
121. Women modelling women’s lingerie is transphobic.
122. Facebook is transphobic.
123. Shakespeare is transphobic.
124. The NSPCC is transphobic.
125. Reporting a court case is transphobic.
126. The alphabet is transphobic.
127. The post is transphobic.
128. Children are transphobic.
129. The Pogues and Kirsty McColl are transphobic.
130. Sitting next to someone on a train is transphobic.
131. Chromosomes are transphobic.
132. The female orgasm is transphobic.
133. Scarves are transphobic.
134. Guide dogs are transphobic.
135. Crosswords are transphobic.
136. Greta Thunberg is transphobic.
137. Telling the truth is transphobic.
138. The word “woman” is transphobic and should be replaced by “womxn”.
139. The word “womxn” is transphobic.
I don’t agree with you on much but on this I couldn’t agree more.
How the fuck will I cope, is that transphobic?
I don’t know what to say.
Err…. 101.?
Thank you Stu for highlighting this issue – hopefully by posting it here it’ll reach a wider audience – this is not a ‘feminist’ thing folks, this is a discussion we should all be having! (unless you don’t have a mum, wife, sister, aunty, niece etc)
Aside from that, as Wings readers, you all know the value of facts, and how language and framing are important!!
Archaeology is also transphobic
Dig up some bones and an archaeologist will look at the pelvic bones, skull or the DNA and declare this is a male or this is a female.
We will all be bones some day and reduced to our DNA and pelvic bones.
I have no problem with people declaring they identify as male, female, Klingon or alien grey and undergo body modification to further that identity but I’m not going to waste a lot of time trying to balance political angels on a pinhead over the issue. A narrower cul de sac it is harder to imagine. Drive up there and there is no easy way out.
M. BuggerLePanda
I’m fairly sure binary language code will also be deemed transphobic. As I’m drinking Earl Grey Tea I expect to be on a watchlist very soon.
I see science is safe, they must have ignored that
Phew – nothing on Cheese & Onion Crisps
> 100 – Wings Over Scotland is transphobic.
Hoo boy, rational wiki seems more like irrational frother wiki.
The woke-brigade are undermining the normative foundations of human rights, at a time of economic crises and the rise of authoritarian, right-wing, nationalism. This is no coincidence, IMHO. Open society is currently under extreme pressure and self-ID may be key to its’ imprisonment. Control language and you control decent.
link to oxfordhandbooks.com
Why are we going here?
There is nothing to be won by it.
Let’s not let the wider cause be mired in an unwinnable war.
At the risk of appearing coarse and upsetting people (youngest readers, please look away now) FFS.
101. Mrs Doubtfire is transphobic
102. Victor-Victoria is transphobic
103. The Rocky Horror Show is transphobic
104. Sport is transphobic
105. Cupid Stunt is transphobic
I can honestly say that i have never encountered an issue with any of the above list in my 52 years on earth.
Maybe it is because i respect people’s right to be who and whatever they want to be, and just go about living my life as I prefer.
I only ever identify as ‘me’. If others do not like me for that, then good for them.
Ever been on holiday in a country where the female cleaners simply wander into to toilets to clean them unannounced ?
You have 2 options, freak out and get all upset, or continue as you are, unaffected.
If you are the former, then that list will probably freak you out and make you a social hermit (unless hermits are transphobic, as i see its not on the list).
If you are the latter, then life probably (and rightly) simply moves along just fine.
Sometimes, life is as difficult as you choose to make it.
You’d have been quicker making a list of topics/things etc which are not considered ‘transphobic’
I note Volcanoes is not in the list.
I may take to simply discussing Volcanoes with friends, family and work colleagues to be on the safe side.
Well, Bud Light…
@Dr Jim says:
30 May, 2019 at 1:45 pm
I see science is safe, they must have ignored that.
I quote from the list:
9. Biology is transphobic.
Biology is science so it’s not safe either.
@geeo says:
30 May, 2019 at 1:56 pm
======================
Sheesh, talk about completely missing the point. People can’t be relaxed about these things because they are under torrents of unpleasant abuse for stating basic facts. It’s ridiculous to expect them to “shrug their shoulders” about it. Even worse, as the Rev points out, police and politicians are going along with it in some cases when they really should be calling it out.
Male-to-female cable adaptors. There, I said it… 🙂
Does my dislike to gender neutral toilets cancel out the fact I am a biologist?
FFS!
Conflating sex with gender undermines science and our potential to make effective public policy.
link to journals.sagepub.com
Thanks Stu Mac!
Spend any time on twitter just looking around at this ‘debate’ and you’ll see why it can’t be ignored (god forbid you go so far as to even ‘like’ some reasonable comment – that’ll see you on some crazy block list because of the folk that trawl through these threads looking for enemies).
If it was a ‘live and let live’ situation (as it was before these extreme TRA got involved) then fair enough, but it’s no longer as simple as that…you know how the song goes 🙁
Stu mac@2.12pm
Oh right, so because i choose to respect everyone’s decision to live their life, as they see fit, as i get on with living mine, and feel no need to get involved in their lives, issues with stuff leading from their life choices/situations, then YOU attack ME for MY view in regards to that ??
So sorry, was i not fucking offended enough for you?
Should i be offended/bothered, just to please you ?
Away and shite.
Because i take that view, DOES NOT mean i do not understand the issues ffs.
This is where mindless quests for equity lead. This is identity politics, probably the caustic and dangerous mindset you can foster in a society. Never trust politicians who use any identity politics. That especially includes fake nationalists
link to rt.com
They can fuck right off and take their wokey transgender activist technical jargon and etiquette with them.
These trans activists really are a rabid, miserable and bitter bunch.
One of your best.
The woke-brigade consider themselves as progressive but they as actually regressive, they are assisting the return to paternalistic patriarchy. A lack of systematic discipline withing the social sciences is partly to blame for encouraging this.
link to colorado.edu
And meanwhile
Rape
Abortion
Violence against women
are just fine
Its like the Church debating angels on a pin head while the Black Death ravaged the Earth
If you will/are/did produce the large gamete you are a woman, the rest are just men
Cameronb brodie
This is what happens when the social sciences started denying biological facts to push feminist ideology over common sense. Now biology means nothing. It was good when we got to pretend that all of female problems in society were manufactured deliberately by evil men wasnt it? This where this garbage leads
It’s an amazingly convenient distraction from so many problems that humans are facing in the world today, I find it all unbearable because it seems so unecessary.
All humans (should) have rights, yet it seems that whole idea is being played around with, and one day everyone, except the rich elite in positions of power, will have no rights at all.
It’s terrifying.
I was crossing the road yesterday and overheard and older man say to his wife, ‘but I can’t see the green MAN!’ I thought crikey, yes, the green man surely is now part of the whole issue too.
It’s all getting out of hand, and it’s political, who really is controlling the narrative on this whole bizarre saga? It’s has sprung up quite suddenly, all the while the far right around the globe are taking liberties with peoples’ rights, especially womens!
In my opinion, this has all been blown up at the expense of tackling serious immediate problems like climate change, poverty and inequality. There are Islands in the south seas that are at risk of disappearing, where people actually live.
The movement of people will be a huge issue in the next few decades, due to climate change, and so many are arguing and attacking each other about gender, sex preferences, etc, and violently and it’s scary as hell.
I just hope this all peters ( I am sure that’s the wrong spelling!) out, because if not, if it escalates people will really regret it when the tipping point really does wreck their lives and remove any rights they thought they should fight others for (who are in fact no threat to them).
Some are fighting the wrong fight, their supposed enemies have been orchestrated out of the blue, conveniently, and it’s very very scary.
Is keeping quiet transphobic? Sorry, I have probably just been transphobic in asking that question.
Wondering what this has to do with indyref2
Although I appreciate the “discursive turn” has added to our understanding and sensitivity towards the human condition, it is vital that sex classes remain grounded in biology.
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Some praise due to their Lobby divisions though, along with the Vegans, they have fair made their voices lately and really upped their public profile.
Just as women are becoming able to stand up for themselves and have courage eg to leave abusive relationships, to have single sex refuges, prisons, toilets etc these trans activists come along and tell them that their rights are more important and they are quite prepared to take away women’s hard fought for rights.
If this continues there will be no safe spaces for women and no womens sport – and so many people have been sooked into their nonsense without thinking it through – no groups rights should be allowed to take away another groups rights.
Joe
You paint with a broad brush Joe. So you don’t appear to be a fan of critical rationalism, critical realism or feminist standpoint epistemology. Care to detail where you think this scientifically grounded perspective is lacking?
Dr Jim
Oh no! Biology is transphobic!
Thank goodness ‘The Big Bang Theory’ isn’t transphobic. Oh, wait . . .
apparently it is also fascist to have policies which encourage child birth
Nosomorphism is transgender. That or wikipedia because they don’t have a definition.
Lol its the future man, get used to it.
Arthetty this is no accident. Marxists and post-modernists have taken over many universities including activist judgies and politicians. This has been seen before and people have been warning for years. The equity doctrine killed 10’s of millions in the 20th century
I believe, to Me and most of my fellow Baby Boomers, it’s simple:
1. A cock and one or two bollocks – MALE
2. Tits and a vagina – Female
Some people, having altering surgery might fall between the two, but, good luck to them and when they finish the operations and have reached their final destination – stances 1 and 2 above apply.
Anything else is shite.
Simples
Socrates, spot on .
Wake me up when the blog gets back to Independence.
%$£&^*(*”!)(((*&^
yesindyref2
This certainly isn’t the site’s core issue but it’s a mahoosive issue and does have relevance, IMHO, as it resembles the authoritarian destruction of the Scottish identity (see the full-English Brexit). Even if you disagree, here’s some cultural anthropology and stuff. 🙂
N.B. Sex denotes biological difference between male and female. Gender is the social psychology of sex. Gender identity is the emotional “performance” of what “sex” is thought to feel like.
link to courses.lumenlearning.com
Like 99.5% of the population, I have no idea what ‘woke’ means, and don’t really give a fuck.
Is it an anti independence insult?
link to urbandictionary.com
There are 2 genders Male & Female and nature decides which one we are just like we don’t get to choose our parents, admittedly nature may not always get it right but we are what we are, we don’t have to like it but we have to live with it like it or not.
If a man wishes to live like a woman, dress like a woman, grow his hair like a woman etc, that’s fine with me but he is a man that’s just a biological fact
CBB @1536
Thank you
Just as I was reading this my computer informed me that my evolution-data-server has an update, what could be more transphobic, it even spotted what I was reading.
Linux, possibly the most transphobic operating system?
What the hell is transphobic … … … Oh! Wait! have I just got myself classed as transphobic?
They didn’t have such a thing when I was a boy … … Oh! Hell I’d best stop while I’m still ahead … … Err! Err!
I’ll awa an keep quiet afore they come to get me.
@CBB
If I was interested in such issues I’d go to blogs that address them. Sorry, life is too short to take an interest in everything.
Focus! There’s Independence to be won and it won’t be long now.
Aw this transgender phobia mince does ma tits in.
Let me get this right.
If I wanted a multi cubicle toilet installed with each cubicle sound proofed then that would be transphobic because I didn’t want to hear a possible trans person in the next cubicle squeezing one out?
Queer theory has added to the sensitivity and effectiveness of educational theory and public policy. However, sex-classes that are grounded in biology are essential to the effectiveness of sex-based human rights.
link to mcgill.ca
Ah but would Crowning Charles as a King and not a Queen be transphobic ?
Not to mention all the gender specific titles the British Nationalists love so much!!!
I really don’t care what the topic is. I follow simple guides.
a) The rights of a few are to be respected BUT cannot dominate the rights of a much larger majority
b) The IMPACT and the INTENT must be recognised by both sides.
c) Threats of violence, closing down debate through aggressive means, should never be rewarded by giving ground.
Examples
a) religious groups
b) asking for a black coffee does not make you a racist.
c) intimidating people trying to enter a meeting
On this particular issue I have seen scientific fact dismissed with threats of violence. I have seen organised complaints to social media forums against individuals for stating established facts. I have seen a total disregard for the genuine concerns expressed by over half the population (Woman)
As with any topic I reject rewarding aggressive minorities forcing a solution through. I am also very concerned that political parties, the police, public bodies etc are surrendering to the aggressors out with any debate and before any legislation passed.
O/T but a tweet worth reading (not if you are a unionist).
link to twitter.com
winifred mccartney@2.49pm
You mentioned the threat to womens sport there, so out of genuine curiousity, what do you think about the Castor Semenya case?
She has been punished for her natural (female) genetic make up producing higher than ‘normal’ (funnily enough, that reads different if you use the word ‘Average’) testosterone levels, and after years of degrading treatment by, well, every agency going, has been told to medically REDUCE her natural testosterone levels to a level deemed as ‘fairer’ for those she competes against.
Who decides what level it should be reduced to, for starters ?
If she keeps winning, should it be reduced further until she stops winning ?
As is, she is not even a world record holder at her chosen events on track, so actually, the issue is further clouded by that inconvenient fact, as making her potentially slower, has no sporting purpose at all.
Castor Semenya is not Transgender, she certainly considers herself all woman, despite allegations that was not the case, a fact confirmed when she disgustingly was subjected to a ‘gender check’ as a young athlete. Considering the debate here, that gender check involved basically examining her genitals, to see ‘if she was indeed a man/woman or not’!
Turns out, shock surprise, she was all woman and cleared to race.
Bitter losers seems to have driven this particular witch hunt of a young athlete and shamefully, world athletics have went along with it.
Her testosterone level is indeed higher than average, but does that really give her a FALSE advantage, like say, a drug cheat ?
Sporting greats are littered with natural ‘freaks’ of nature, like say, swimmers with massive feet, or those near 7ft basketball legends.
I do not recall anyone wishing to ‘sanction’ them to give other, less naturally endowed athletes, a ‘fairer’ chance to win.
An interesting point to note in regards to athletics, is that, the Womens 400 metre world record, set by Marita Koch of the East German generation of athletes KNOWN and proven to have routinely cheated using performance enhancing drugs, and where athletics removed lots of world record achievements by those athletes, still recognises that record in the 400m.
This despite Koch being found to have used banned anabolic steroids to set most, if not all, of her 16 world records over several years.
It is a record rarely got anywhere near in the last 34 years.
So an obvious drug cheat, keeps her tainted WR yet a young woman with a NATURALLY OCCURING advantage, is violated to prove she is a woman and forcibly disadvantaged for that, when other naturally advantages athletes are not.
All the above, and not a ‘trans activist’ in sight.
Womens sport is doing a good job of bringing itself into disrepute without any help.
Stu, as a female I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for drawing attention to this issue and standing up for the rights of the female biological sex. Our classification of our biological sex is being reduced to nothing more than a ‘feeling of being a woman’ in this transgender debate.
It is totally warped in every sense – what is going on with our politicians who are accepting this ‘crank science’? How the hell can gender trump biological sex?
In my opinion the GRA as it stands is sound, and many transsexuals agree. Self ID is so open to abuse and quite frankly, the trans-activists appear to me as pathological nutters!!!
I have never in my life identified as a feminist but I will not stand for my biological sex to be erased in this way.
I know you’ve had some criticism for highlighting the trans debate but please know there are so many women that are thankful for your support. Please keep up the good work of supporting women.
To think Danny La Rue was at one time cutting edge in the gender stakes.
That picture is like something out of the 70s classic film’The Warriors’.
I’m all for for minorities standing up for their rights,but they look like they’ve been watching too many movies.
If they are serious about using those weopons then we do seem to be moving towards a more surreal dystopian world.
This article has certainly ensured any strong opinions I may have had on the matter have been neutered.
Is it bad I thought that picture was a kind of “Lost Boys” “The Warriors” tribute act? Or is it I went to uni in the 80’s and the New Romantics, never mind Boy George and Adam Ant were about. Not to mention the 70’s and Glam rock, or 60’s and flower power.
Obviously Jack Sparrow is transphobic too.
Surely every single one that lot were arrested for carrying offensive weapons, as for the axe weilder, that surely is demonstrating an intention to kill.
Mr Campbell is once again displaying his ignorance of gender issues.
Noel Darlow
I’m not saying whether I think you are right or wrong, but would you care to elaborate?
@jfngw says:30 May, 2019 at 4:12 pm:
” … O/T but a tweet worth reading (not if you are a unionist).
link to twitter.com“
That’s a great comment, ifngw.
Just about 30 seconds before reading it I was finishing my evening meal and it was my first chance to think through the events of the day so far. The though that was running through my head as I sat back down at the computer was about today’s FMQ’s.
I had just thought to myself that the unionists leaders and questioners seem not to have learned anything after the events of the past week.
Wall to wall running down Scotland and accusing the SNP of everything except perhaps genocide. Earlier I had rerun a video of a Holyrood debate about the Bifab yard probably losing out and the fabrication of the wind turbines for the wind farm off the mouth of the Forth being built across the other side of the World and shipped round the globe to Scotland.
The way the unionists, and particularly the Tories and Willie Rennie, had it the fault was all due to the SNP.
The unionists were gubbed in the EU elections and anyone being handed that sharp lesson would have realised their past tactics were leading to their total wipe out in Scotland and instead of changing tack they stick with the same tactics and step up the attacks.
Do they not realise they are the ones causing their decline – not the SNP. So it is madness to keep doing what doesn’t work for them.
The people, the voters, at least the bulk of them, are full of praise for the SNP yet these numpties, in spite of being often invited by the FM to work with the SNP for a better Scotland, step up the bitter attacks, the public know are bullshit, and further lose the public’s support.
Off topic – For those more into politics than gender issues.
Adam at work.
Dear member,
I have today written to the leaders of the other pro-Remain parties to ask for urgent meetings to discuss how we can work together to beat Brexit.
In my letter to the leaders of the Liberal Democrats (Wales and UK), the SNP, the Greens (Wales, England and Wales, and Scotland), and Change UK, I said that the need for cooperation is now urgent.
I am of the view that that cooperation should last as long as is necessary to deliver a People’s Vote and ensure that Wales is not dragged towards a no deal Brexit for which there is no mandate.
As Plaid Cymru Leader, I am prepared to have an open discussion with those parties about how best we can work together in Westminster, in a referendum, and in any potential general election.
The European election showed that Plaid Cymru is Wales’ party of Remain, and I am determined that we will show the necessary leadership to protect Wales’ interests.
We cannot accept anything that would cause damage to Wales and our communities, and pro-Remain parties now have a responsibility to work together to avoid that.
For Wales,
Adam Price AM
Plaid Cymru Leader
Help me. I’m phobic
Geeo,
you Caster Semenya example is a complete misnomer as she is intersex. The trans debate is about male to female or female to male gender preferences.
If you want to discuss trans people in female sports and the advantages they bring due to male physiology, why don’t you look up Hannah Mouncey (Australian footballer), or how trans competitors at track and field are completely reducing female sport to a pointless activity.
Females cannot compete with biological males in strength and speed. That is why we have a separate categorisation in all forms of elite sport. Allowing biological males who happen to identify as female (regardless of hormone treatment) will always have a competitive advantage due to their male physiology.
I think I’ve lived too long. I find these activists repetitive and boring now.
No your not
Repetetive Darn it.
Response was to myself and no other!
“Off topic – For those more into politics than gender issues.”
Sorry but I’m honestly surprise at the crassness of that comment.
link to forestgreenfeminism.wordpress.com
OK, so the World Health Organisation can’t really be considered woke.
link to who.int
This is an important political issue and one that directly affects 50% of the population i.e. those born female.
Changes in policy in public services such as the NHS, Prisons, schools, volunteer organisations and charities (forced in cases where funding is dependent on allowing transgender women with male bodies access to refuges, rape crisis centres etc.) put women at risk.
It goes way beyond toilets and changing rooms though that is bad enough. Someone has to stop this madness and I think it is legitimate for a political blog to raise it.
We all have to understand what is being done, often in secret, to remove the rights of women in Scotland. So Stu is quite right to point out the storm of abuse that many women and men are now subjected to for stating the most basic biological facts.
“Wondering what this has to do with indyref2”
Pay more fucking attention, then.
@geeo says:
30 May, 2019 at 2:28 pm
Stu mac@2.12pm
Oh right, so because i choose to respect everyone’s decision to live their life, as they see fit, as i get on with living mine, and feel no need to get involved in their lives, issues with stuff leading from their life choices/situations, then YOU attack ME for MY view in regards to that ??
NO. 1) I didn’t attack you. I stated you had missed the point. A list of areas where really nasty attacks are made for no good reason and you go on about live and let live? I actually presumed you had missed the point and hadn’t understood the issue. However it seems you maybe did and and are fine with folk being subjects of abuse and untruths defended and promulgated in the nastiest way.
So sorry, was i not fucking offended enough for you?
Should i be offended/bothered, just to please you ?
Away and shite.
Oh? Seems you’re fine with the kind of abuse the REv’s attacking, here it is from you – and I’ve noticed you giving it out to other posters here.
Because i take that view, DOES NOT mean i do not understand the issues ffs.
If true then you’re fine with all those folk being attacked on line .. seeing the way you seem to respond to something of a mild statement (i.e that you might have missed a point) I can understand it. Or maybe you just have anger issues?
NB Please note, I’ve not replied to your abuse in kind.
Monty Pythons Life of Brian, also – the judean peoples front in discussion with Reg
– I mean, obviously, someone is at the social engineering and doing the room 101 power play : 2 + 2 = ?
4, sometimes, but it can also be 3, or 5 depending on how we feel
– truth is what we say it is, that is all
and if you object the twitter witchfinder generals and purple haired red guards will hunt you down
this is not about biology, or science, facts and logic it is about the right to define reality by exercise of social power – and such an atrocity must always be opposed
there is no making peace with the insane and vindictive, so you need to purposefully enrage them at any opportunity – the only pleasure one can obtain from a tranny is in – sending them into a blind rage – triggering them is beautiful, but over-easy
XY means youre a guy
no womb, you aint no woman
a man with his balls cutoff
a hairyarse in a wig
the dick emery appreciation society
the sodomites
@stu mac.
By TELLING me what i think, rather than listening to it, you are forcing YOUR opinion of my words upon me.
That is an attack.
I know my views, and i explained them in great detail.
If you do not like that, then tough titty.
If you want to know my view, fucking ask me, but do not presume it for me.
I never agreed with anyone, i stated it has never affected ME so i steer clear.
That does not mean i agree with negative things trans activists are doing.
You do not have the right to presume my non disclosed views for me.
I do not do that to you, do I ?
Now feck off and go talk for yourself.
This has been said before by others (and no doubt better than me) but one reason why this seeming madness gets some political support is because it is a useful (for them) distraction from directing energy at real and more important social problems. OK the promulgators may appear to be nutcases (actually a lot aren’t, they’re kind of real-life trolls, enjoying bullying others) but a lot of folk, who would normally support good social causes but who don’t think things through to well get caught up in it (and other similar stuff) and so get diverted from where their nergies would be much better spent.
P.s. from the perspective of cultural anthropology, states are masculine and nations feminine. Ergo, One Nation British nationalism is a form of misogynistic rational paternalism.
Thanks Rev for bringing this up. No its not Indy related but it IS being punted by both the Indy parties; SNP and Green. It has been slipped into position in a very low key, sleekit way after much lobbying by TQ groups. It’s just not on.
@Noel Darlow says: 30 May, 2019 at 4:52 pm:
” … Mr Campbell is once again displaying his ignorance of gender issues.”
That’ll be in your humble opinion, of course, Noel?
Now I’m in no way the kind of guy who is biased against any human being as to me there is only one race. It is called the human race.
This lot strike me as acting like gangsters and if it wasn’t this issue they were espousing they’d invent one.
@CameronB Brodie
The key point is are our minds gendered? Our bodies (obviously) are, as far as that goes but that’s not very far. There’s a limit to the relevance of reproductive physiology.
If our minds aren’t innately gendered (and they appear not to be eg see Prof Gina Rippon) then gender doesn’t exist. It’s just a meme, a social norm.
There will be men who don’t conform to stereotypically “male” behaviours & characteristics and women who aren’t stereotypically “female”. Male or female, our individuality would be plucked from the same broad spectrum of cognitive abilities & personality traits which does not innately vary with reproductive sex.
Body dysmorphia might then be traced to individuals who are intensely uncomfortable in the gender role society expects from their reproductive sex (rather than the idea of a biologically male mind trapped in a female body or vice versa). Or we can simply take a practical view and accept the advice and best practice of the medical profession which recognises this as a serious condition (Mr Campbell displays the usual populist disdain for genuine expertise).
Basically, our ideas of what it means to be a man or a woman deserve to be challenged. Talking about gender (a powerful social norm) as if it were a biological fact is a basic category error.
@geeo 4.12 pm
Caster Semenya is 46xy DSD
link to academic.oup.com
link to sportsscientists.com
RIGHT YOU LOT – YES , YOU ! I am reporting ALL of YOU for breaching the Transgender code of conduct for even THINKING about this issue .
YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WARNED !!
yesindyref2@3.58pm
That’s the problem though.
While the FM has booted indy waaay down the road to a time when the political situation might lead to a S30 being granted, the hardcore feminists who have their hooks well and truly into the SNP can push their agenda knowing they have NS full attention with indy out of the way.
I’m all for waiting for the right moment but beginning to seriously wonder what the priorities are.
Sheeeet.
Earlier I thought I was living the dream as I spent the morning getting dirty with a beautiful 35 year old German topless model that required some attention…
Now I learn that my use of both male and female electrical connectors whilst repairing the wiring loom on a Golf convertible could potentially be construed as a hate crime by some.
Quickly self IDs as a table to avoid capture…
This has nothing to do with “hard core feminists” – quite the opposite. The baseball bats in the photo are often accompanied by fantasies of vicious attacks on feminists – called TERFs (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists). This is a hard core anti feminist movement.
For example:
There’s a limit to the relevance of reproductive physiology.
Not of you are born female. It is usually used to define your entire existence. Alabama is a good example ATM.
@Scozzie 5.09pm
You may want to fact check that claim that Castor Semenya is ‘intersex’ as that is based on media claims her ‘gender test’ was leaked and there were ‘aspects’ of intersex’ noted.
Her ACTUAL test results were not released but by allowing her to continue to compete as a woman, until using her naturally high testosterone levels as the new stick to beat her with, makes it very clear she WAS NOT ‘intersex’.
In fact, high testosterone levels could fall into what the leak said were “aspects of intersex”
Key word ASPECTS.
That, given the green light to continue competing in womens events, clearly indicates that high testosterone was the ONLY concerning aspect of her testing.
In other words, all woman but with high testosterone levels.
The world governing body then went on to discuss if those high levels gave her an unfair sporting advantage.
your entire intersex claim is unsubstantiated nonsense, based on a high testosterine level in her results, which the salubrious media pack were desperate to turn into a ‘juicy’ story.
Semenya lost a championship race, where people thought she ‘threw’ it to avoid more controversy, but even that was wrongful speculation, as she had never run the winners time before and the winner was later banned and stripped of the title for drug cheating.
How ironic that you want wonens rights defended from trans activists (nothing wrong with that btw) yet are too eager to spread rumours and lies about a young female athlete persecuted by all and sundry for no other crime than having a higher than usual testosterone level.
Yet on here, i am attacked for not supporting women from trans activists (stu mac) while defending a young woman being denigrated by another woman for no good reason.
Go figure huh ?
Now you see why i just live and let live, personally.
Too many unreasonable fruitcakes on all sides.
Noel Darlow
I’m open to queerness, it’s just I’m concerned with protecting the internal linkages between biology, equity and human rights. Self-ID of sex will disrupt the coherence of legal doctrine and harm the cultural foundations of human meaning. That does not appear a reasonable cost for the appeasement of misogynistic narcissism, IMHO.
link to ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Most women are really tolerate of others. Most people have a mother. Mothers and others love their children. A bit of empathy might help. Especially for those who are a bit different to the norm. What is all the fuss about? It affects a small % of people and can be dealt with constructively. What are they all fighting about. It almost reflects how gay people used to be persecuted.
“72. Gendering cats is transphobic.”
Best not mention then that my boy cat has a blue name tag on his collar and my girl cat has a pink name tag.
And Lynsey Sharp is a TERF (and a racist) apparently.
link to dailydot.com
link to dailymail.co.uk
telt yi this would all get on ma tits.Should i cut them off? What would i be then?
The English/American language is a veritable minefield. So called ‘politically correct’ language is stunting discourse, argument, debate and deriding alternative opinion. The language is being totalitarianised. Such a process happened to Nazi German, Soviet Russian and Maoist Chinese. The fact that this is occurring under self-defining democratic systems is more than troubling.
A brave new western world, especially social media, is seemingly populated by the immature, the gobby, the self-obsessed and the pedlars of unreason. The saying ‘empty vessels make make most sound’ incarnate.
In the culture I came from they’d be eaten alive, poor things.
@geeo
“She has been punished for her natural (female) genetic make up…”
Semenya and her advisors refused to release the details of the tests to determine this. Draw your own conclusions.
“… she disgustingly was subjected to a ‘gender check’ as a young athlete…”
Complete bollocks. Gender checks in sport have for about the past 30+ years or so been a simple gum swab to determine XX or XY. Semenya and her advisors refused to disclose the result. Draw your own conclusions.
Interesting post by Morag on the Week in the War on Women thread re Semenya – see also the post immediately above it:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
I might get back to the brain science in a bit, but here’s some political theory to think about for now. Sorry, I can find an open text.
link to link.springer.com
Noel Darlow
I think this article address your point particularly well. Full text.
link to tandfonline.com
That should have read I can’t find a full text for the Roberto Unger paper.
Noel Darlow
Here’s some cognitive science that responds to your comment.
link to cell.com
Oh jeez how will I get to the shops for groceries without being transphobic. Best just to crawl back under the duvet.
Actually, it was the IAAC who refused to release the test results.
The same ruling group who ALLOWED HER TO CONTINUE COMPETING IN WOMENS ATHLETIC COMPETITION in full knowledge of her results.
Draw your own conclusions from that, you ignorant fool.
Saw somebody on Twitter say that Politics and things have gone tits up (wonder i am offending there) since the Large Hadron Collider at Cerne went into operation.
He was joking but may have a point 🙂
Oh look, it’s Stu shitting on me for wanting to use a public bathroom again.
Can you stop it with the hyperbole please?
There is a poll on the Dundee Courier just now – https://www.thecourier.co.uk
scroll down and you’ll find it.
Nicola Sturgeon has said it would be a democratic outrage if a Second Indyref 2 was denied – do you agree or disagree?
Currently on 57% for no and 42% for yes after 1,900 votes
Am at 21 that Raynard the fox is ah sneeky bastward
Noel Darlow
Ok so minds may not be gendered, but biology is and if a man who identifies as a woman doesn’t have ovaries then that person is a man. Correct?
Has Edna from the lib dems got a view on this (watch FMQ’s)?
And here’s some up-to-date thoughts on Roberto Unger and how his philosophy and legal thinking might help resolve the current confrontation between the interests of men’s rights and social equality.
link to digitalcommons.osgoode.yorku.ca
Biology isn’t really science
Physicist joke!
@HandandShrimp,
the sexing of skeletons is not as precise as our BBC historians and grave robbers like to portray,
like the `Richard III` skeleton in the car park or the 4000 year old `Ava` skeleton found in Caithness,
the atribution of sex to these skeletons fit the agenda more than the science,
worth a read,
`Research Article`
The Difficulty of Sexing Skeletons from Unknown Populations,
link to tinyurl.com
anyhoo,
how can a historian/grave robber, in todays `woke` world, sex a skeleton when the owner of the skeleton might have had a different view on their sexual identity,
not sure but i think the BBC grave robber Alice Roberts got herself in a bit of a twitter cul de sac with that conundrum.
It’s another “divide et impera” trick in the weaponry of the 1%.
Disseminating strife is their way to keep the masses distracted from their parasitic existence.
This too will pass, just ignore the idiots.
Oh, before you accuse me of transphobia, I have three (YES, THREE) transgender children.
They’re stupid and insufferable, they don’t make sense, speak in memes, as every other teenager does.
Yep, not because of their sexual preferences, their chosen gender or other trait. But because they behave like arseholes, like every normal teenager does with their parents.
If I practiced mysosgyny and excluded a trans person from my mysogyny could I then be accused of transphobia?
Gosh! This a social niceties mine field.
Rev. or is it Revess — is there something you are trying to tell us? lol
Meg merrilees says:
So far, a majority of Courier fans saying, NO it wouldn’t be a democratic outrage.
Well, all I can say to those people is … what would you actually consider to be a democratic outrage?
They don’t want independence because they have some personal vested interests in the UK continuing. I can see that. However, I think it is morally reprehensible to be willing to cast aside democracy to get their own way.
This is one of the very few topics that I’v always avoided commenting on, partly because the whole issue is so jargon-ridden, but mostly because it seems to generate such aggression.
Having watched several very serious fall-outs between indy supporters on various aspects of it all, it’s hard to avoid the obvious conclusion i.e. that the rational, more sober analysts on ‘our’ side are being intimidated into silence by those who have thrown their lot in with a vociferous narcissistic zealots. And if they dare break that silence – as Rev has, repeatedly – they are instantly castigated, forever stamped as ‘bigots’.
I don’t know enough about the subject to be able to offer any comment on any of it (e.g. I honestly didn’t know a definition of ‘woke’ until reading CBB’s comment upthread) but most of us have been reading this and other indy-related sites for a long time and we’ve come to know a very wide range of folk who are experts on all sorts of things. From now on I’m not going to avoid these arguments – even if I can’t contribute to them I know who I trust and, therefore, feel comfortable supporting if/when forced to take a side.
It’s surely not just coincidence that the indy supporters who seem most inclined to slap-down the non-‘woke’ among us just happen to be the same voices who sow division and upset across a range of other topics. It wouldn’t be fair to name them here, but I suspect most of us have a fair idea of who they are and, more importantly perhaps, so do they.
Aye, there are plenty of other hills on which most of us would prefer to ‘die’ (it’s just a saying, right?!) but this one has the potential to be one of the costliest. We have to be careful, calm, and support one another.
Robert Peffers
link to youtube.com
Hud oan tae yer tackle , they tranphobe’s ur sneeky bastwards they go aboot in the night like Wee Wullie Winky stealing wee boys magic wands lol .
Some thoughts.
1)The irony of Castor Semenya’s case
is that if she had said she was a man identifying as a woman
she would have had no problems at all.
2)Does anybody know whether women identifying as men are causing or having similar problems?
3)Did anybody publicly complain about the new royal baby being referred to as a boy?
Meanwhile, back on Castor Semenya, a female athlete being run ot of athletics by the IAAF rather than trans activists, nutjob ones or chilled out ones….
She has taken her case to CAS (Court of Arbritation for Sport).
And frankly, she has a very strong case, since the IAAF very recently changed their rules to force female testosterone below a mandatory level decided by, well, mostly white middle aged men in suits (ducks for cover) to specifically defy the previous CAS precedent on female athletes/sportswomen, with high natural testosterone levels (hyperandrogenism)
…….
the court (CAS) suspended the practice of hyperandrogenism regulation used by the IAAF. The practice will be declared void if the organization fails to present better evidence by July 2017.
……
Members of the same clinical hormone evaluation team (Working for CAS) report there is NO EVIDENCE that innate hyperandrogenism in elite women athletes CONFERS AN ADVANTAGE IN SPORT.
Raised levels of testosterone have not been shown to give an unfair advantage to the athlete.
Scholars question whether this advantage can really be considered “unfair” if it is a naturally occurring and out of the control of the athlete.
For example, elite athletes have a greater aerobic capacity and endurance in comparison to the majority of people.
The case has been criticized as showing vulnerability of women athletes to unnecessary medical interventions under duress, with no evidence of cheating and no evidence of athletic advantage.
……………
Castor looks like she has a very strong case to take to CAS, and will damn the attitude of the IAAF in the process.
CAS will not take lightly, the IAAF attitude of trying to circumvent their latest ruling on hyperandrogenism testing by simply changing the rules to suit themselves.
They (IAAF) were ordered to find better testing and when they couldn’t, but rather than comply with the CAS previous ruling on testing guidelines, have tried to ‘game’ the rules by changing the criteria.
CAS will not like their authority openly subverted by IAAF.
I expect Castor Semenya to win this case, and hope she takes her rightful place, unadulterated, back on the stage her talent deserves to be showcased.
This topic on Wings is partly about protecting womens rights against aggressive trans activism, yet when i highlight that an international athletics body is actively TELLING WOMEN athletes how much testosterone they are ‘allowed’ to be considered a FEMALE athlete, i have been attacked for it, and by at least one woman !!
Its a funny old world huh ?
@ Meg merrilees – something fishy about that Courier poll. I’ve just voted twice but it didn’t change the total. Now there are 1,882 votes, down from the 1,900 you saw!
No
56.96% (1,072 votes)
Yes
43.04% (810 votes)
Total Votes: 1,882
Mike Cassidy@7.21pm
Exactly right, there are NO sex testing guidelines never mind testing, for male athletes.
what we need of course is lots of new Laws so that if anyone disagrees with our mental illness we can put them in prison.
For now.
(later on we will try to re-educate them….and if that fails, we can always gas them)
They remade Xfiles?
Ian 7.20
I’ve pointed out this before.
And it is the one really serious point.
There are men out there -clearly violent and misogynistic –
who are taking advantage of the promotion of equality for transgender people
especially the promotion of acceptance of non-biological gender identity
to claim that they are now identifying as women
and that this identification now entitles them to inhabit those ‘spaces’ previously seen as safe spaces for women.
eg women’s refuges
Do not doubt for a second that this is a declaration of war on women.
Ironically, it appears the one group in society who are truly fecked are women who identify as women.
link to archive.is
Well it says now after my vote.
Thank you for voting!
No
56.73% (1,075 votes)
Yes
43.27% (820 votes)
Total Votes: 1,895
link to facebook.com
Ur wee expected tae walk this way noo . LoL
I wish I didn’t feel bound to being sensible, as there’s a lot of scope for humour with this nonsense (self-ID). Apparently though, this is what happens when I turn my back for a decade or three. Time for some Critical Realism? 🙂
Critical Realism, Gender and Feminism: Exchanges, Challenges, Synergies
link to tandfonline.com
Are”Trans Issues” being foisted onto Scottish politics to cause problems for the ruling party.
Seems to be working a treat.
If this Gender Recognition Act makes it through the parliament the S MSM will run amok.
why should someones right not to be offended trump my right to free speech
Ian Brotherhood
In support of being supportive, I think I’ll stop using “woke”. Ill-informed, left-leaning, ‘liberals’ doesn’t have quite the same psychological impact on the reader though. Perhaps “wrong-headed” is both appropriate and less antagonistic? Or what about “gender-blind”?
I had a wee chuckle at the Warriors comments upthread.
Surely folk posturing on the internet with axes, sledgehammers, and baseball bats in a threatening and intimidating behaviour towards others is wrong.
Maybe in Scotland we need to put together a threatening communications and an offensive behaviour to females act…
The MSM are already sharpening their knives, and that is before the GRA bill is amended. Let’s hope common sense prevails and SelfID is not automatically rolled out.
However, many public services are already applying it in the mistaken belief that SelfID is good practice. It isn’t.
link to archive.fo
Identity politics compared to other social issues, costs little to implement. Therefore it is an easy and lost costly policy for political parties to jump on and garner support from wholly headed liberal sort who are the most politically active and able to ‘spread the message’ among undecided’s.
Scott,
Sexing skeletons may be more problematical than TV archaeology suggests but they still only use a binary set of options…male or female based on perceived biology.
Gutted Stu hasn’t added archaeology to the list (obviously I’m not I never think about this subject unless it crops up on here)
re: Comparisons of Warriors movie.
I’d suggest Bronx Warriors which is mashup of The Worriors, Clockwork orange, Escape from New York city and nearly every other associated movie of that genre which the jokers in the picture of this article would fit right into.
Dan says:
30 May, 2019 at 7:54 pm
If those individuals walked down any street of Scotland, people would be making way for them and calling ‘make way for the gangsters’ but it would be done out of mocking rather than fear 🙂
I’m a former Biomedical scientist specialising in Developmental Biology and I understand how sex determination works during development. I know Robin Lovell-Badge who discovered Sry, the male determination gene*. I also know how it works (it bends dna).
NOBODY can tell me people can become members of the opposite sex by self declaration.
I am not against Trans people. I am against TRA’s and the current assault on safe spaces and safeguarding of women and girls. I am brother to three sisters, father to two daughters and uncle to five nieces and their safety is a major matter to me. I need to know they are safe from predators like Karen White.
I am DEEPLY suspicious of the Queer Everything agenda and Mermaids’ attempt to sexualise children. I want the Tavistock gender clinic investigated properly, a major scandal is brewing there. Government and the regulators are supine. Brave psychiatrists have resigned from it rather than be complicit in the harms going on there.
Proper psychiatrists tell us homophobia is behind much Trans desire. If you are being bullied by classmates and/or your family for being same sex attracted declaring you are the other sex seems a good solution. You can fancy your girlfriend if you’re a boy.
Kids need to be told that all this will pass and they can be who they really are. Instead they are fed puberty blockers and encouraged to get desexed, irreversibly.
It is a fundamental tenet of modern medicine that just because you can treat something doesn’t always mean you should. The Tavistock seems to have forgotten this and the first principle of Hypocrates: First do no harm.
Sorry forgot my asterisk.
*The female developmental program needs no determining factor, it’s the default program. You can be XY and morphologically female (but infertile) if there is a fault in the male determination program. Most Trans people are not such, though I am happy to allow that some like that may wish to transition to be morphologically male.
I also understand how sex reassignment surgery can happen and it’s all tied to the devleopment. The lining of the scrotum is the tunica vaginalis. Handy that.
The SNP appear to be risk adverse at times, solid management, governing in the centre ground in order to instill confidence and build support for independence. Yet here they are promoting a policy that gets up the back of women, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Scientists, men with wives and daughters, sane people, and a lot of other demographics. A bit of a risk to take so that male lesbians have the right to get their tadgers out in female changing rooms. Madness.
Cappella ( there’s something fishy about the Courier poll ) Of cause there is its Klik Bait to get revenues from the unwary , If your not bying the Britnat media news print then why would you’s contribute
Does this spell the impending break up of the Union?
Not the doomed UKGB+NI … the hitherto expansionist LGBTQIA+
Are the T’s going to declare UDI ?
They don’t seem to have much in common with any of the others, you could say that they were the “odd men out”…but be sure to don a vitriol proof suit before you do.
What about the P’s? Will the P’s get back into the fold?
Although they have been ostracized of late, they still have a lot of friends in political circles and the fact that the medical profession (motto – first do no harm) is permitted to manufacture T’s, is proof that with a bit of Orwellian Newspeak,
Anything is possible.
PacMan says: at 8:09 pm
“If those individuals walked down any street of Scotland, people would be making way for them and calling ‘make way for the gangsters’ but it would be done out of mocking rather than fear.
They are all carrying long shafted weapons that take time to swing, so rather than move away it’d be better to move in really close and give them a hug so they can’t whack you!
This is what happens when society swaps their Air Max for Ava Max… everyone’s gotten Sweet but Psycho.
Does this situation stem from the era of removing winners from school sports day and children learning in their formative years how to deal with their strength and weaknesses.
Just because you got yer arse handed to you in a sack / three legged / egg and spoon race doesn’t mean life will forever more be shite for you.
The good news is that there’s now so many fookin snowflakes in Scotland we can have a year round ski season!
@ ronnie – I get it ronnie, although I believe it’s really “click-through” rates which boost MSM income i.e. people then clicking on adverts.
The few thousand who click on the poll aren’t going to make the Courier look much more popular than it is. So I balance the aim of boosting the YES vote against giving the Courier a small, but economically unimportant, boost in visits.
Muscleguy
That was co-incidence rather than plagiarism.
I had yet to read your post, every word of which I agree with.
There has been mixed changing rooms in swimming pools etc for years. With absolutely no problems. There are separate cubicles and family changing rooms. It is absolutely no problem. There could be separate unisex toilets. Without much problems. A variety so people could use what they like. There are unisex toilets, separate cubicles, in many restaurants and cafes. Especially smaller ones. No problems,
Ahh, the comments here make me feel so loved.
Everyone is not only calling me a rapist and sex predator, but a pedophile as well as a violent thug.
And you wonder why trans folk are so aggressive about equal rights?
re. harm, the avoidance of which is a key tenant of administrative law. IMHO, the Scottish government would be negligent in meeting the needs of its’ duty of care to Scotland’s public, if self-ID is not abandoned out-right. What on earth are the civil service playing at, proceeding on the basis that “sex” is undefined in law?
link to administrativelawmatters.com
I take it baseball bats are not transphobic – but they are very intimidating and potentially a lethal weapon. But, who knows these days.
Just a thought.
Will this be the first and last time a 100 per cent female squad represent Scotland at the Women’s World Cup Finals?
Illy says: at 8:34 pm
“Ahh, the comments here make me feel so loved.
Everyone is not only calling me a rapist and sex predator, but a pedophile as well as a violent thug.
And you wonder why trans folk are so aggressive about equal rights?
Your reading comprehension needs some work if that is the conclusion you come to.
The Scottish government conducted a consultation on changing the GRA last year. It turns out that the civil servants administering the process changed the wording of the documents to remove definitions of sex and gender, eliding the meaning of both.
This was done after they were lobbied by the Equality Network group.
link to threadreaderapp.com
Re changing rooms. There have been pools on Hampstead Heath since 1920s. There is a men’s pool, a mixed pool and a women’s pool. After a consultation conducted by Edward Lord, the women’s pool is now open to trans women who SelfID.
Edward Lord is a man who SelfIDs as non-binary. He is a freemason as a man because the freemasons exclude women. His consultation received 40,000 replies. However, 20,000 were disallowed because they didn’t accept the terminology. Hence the majority for allowing male bodied trans women into the women’s pool and changing rooms.
link to archive.fo
It’s obvious that we have to take the results of consultations with a massive pinch of salt.
Mmm, yes. Geeo seems to be quite a long way behind on the news about Caster Semenya. She has an XY genotype, that is the male genotype. The only way an XY individual can be female is if the SRY gene on the Y chromosome is absent or non-functional (Swyer syndrome), or if the individual has complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS). Caster Semenya has an SRY gene. She has testicles (undescended) and it’s likely she could actually father a child (although not carry one). She also, quite obviously, has bioavailable testosterone.
The reason she was believed to be a girl when she was born is that her external genitalia looked female, or at least looked more female than male – it’s likely she actually has ambiguous genitalia, but that the standard of neonatal care available to poor black South African families when she was born was not capable of spotting this. The reason for this abnormality is that she has depressed sensitivity to male sex hormones – androgens – a condition known as partial androgen insensitivity syndrome or PAIS. This is an intersex condition. Properly diagnosed in infancy, such children are brought up as boys under best practice guidelines.
See the case of Erik Schinegger, who was born in Austria with the same condition and brought up as Erika. He was the women’s downhill skiing champion when he was 18, but was diagnosed as XY PAIS three years later in 1969 when sex testing was first introduced at the Olympics. He opted for surgery to exteriorise his internal male organs, married, and became a father.
Different times, different rules. Exactly the same situation has arisen with Caster Semenya but the rules now say she can continue to compete in women’s events if she lowers her testosterone a bit. Maybe this is the kindest thing from her point of view but I’m not sure it’s so kind to the actual 46XX women who are being beaten out of the park by her and a couple of other athletes with the same condition. The fact is that 46XY with bioavailable androgens is a male genotype. Caster Semenya is socially and legally a woman but she has a biologically male body. She’s not a gifted woman, she’s a disadvantaged man, biologically speaking.
Nowadays children like Erik born in developed countries are being diagnosed early and brought up as boys. Nevertheless these children are acquiring hard currency value in sports competitions if they’ve been registered as girls at birth, so one wonders whether countries which are very eager for sporting success (like South Africa, which has apparently appointed a director of sports specifically to find promising intersex girls) will be too keen on adopting best practice any time soon.
This is just for clarification. It has absolutely nothing to do with the transgender debate, which is about genetically and phenotypically normal individuals wanting to be the sex they most definitely aren’t.
I suppose it’s relevant to some extent in that it’s likely the scouts looking for promising intersex girls are wasting their time. With women’s events being opened to trans-identifying biological males, they’ll probably get better results persuading some of the not-quite-good-enough male athletes to identify as trans.
“I’m open to queerness” means I live and let live, or I take a “whatever floats your boat” stance. However, allowing self-ID would be seriously bad law. The more I think about the conduct of the civil service, the more I’m certain they need to answer serious questions
In the new shiny Boris Johnson or Esther McVey reich the question of rights won’t be what’s on most folks minds because those people will remove whatever they don’t like and replace it with what they do like, and it’s practically guaranteed if it’s not mainstream they won’t like it and that’ll be that, so this particular current Genie will be stuffed back in the bottle whether it likes it or not to the sound of applauding far right wingers the length and breadth of good old liberal Britannia
When England voted for Brexit and gave free reign to Mr Farage, that also opened the door to the Trumpism extremists who are more religious about their God given rights to being bigger bullies than anybody else in the name of their God (birthright and there’ll always be an American England with beer darts and apple pie) all bets on any form of rights will be off
@geeo 7.28
Most people agree Caster Semenya’s treatment by the IAAF is shabby but that is not what the thread was about. The person who compiled the list is intersex and has like others with DSD has had their particular condition hijacked by TRAs in the same way as Caster Semenya.
Whatever condition Caster Semenya has, she has always been comfortable in her body ie her body matches her internal identity.
This is not the same as those who want to self identify as another gender (mostly feminine) but present their body and their aggressive male behaviour unchanged to females who have to accept them often in situations where (again mostly) females would feel threatened or uncomfortable.
There was a bit of cross-posting there. Capella, excellent post, these consultations are being blatantly manipulated on both sides of the border.
Illy
You forgot “Loony”!
In real life Nationalists (well Scottish ones anyway) are fairly inclusive there have always been squllions of gays in the SNP, Dykes, Chinks, Pakies, Half-castes, Coons, English, miscellaneous other foreigners, Jews, Orangemen, Catholics etc. and many, many nutcases.
A sort of Broad Church where failure to make the new guy feel welcome was considered to be something of a sin.
There was even a Tranny who became a Parliamentary Candidate, under his/her new Ladyname.
It is an Identity thing…If you self-identify as “Politically Scottish”, you are one of us.
This is of course the internet, where you can type things to or about people you wouldn’t dream of saying out loud.
Dr Jim
I hate to tell you but for all the right wing might be blamed for – this issue with essentially identity politics isnt one of them.
This is a monster created by and nurtured by the left. Seriously.
I looked at Margaret Ferrier’s wonderful tweet .
I was sickened by the Unionist Knuckle Draggers
Attitude at so many wonderful SNP achievements.
With Westminster taking the UK into £2 Trillion of
Debt and a lion’s share plus being spent on London
Scotland his to take an 8.5% share of the total debt.
The Unionists suggest we will be running up debt
Providing so many support services and the beauty
That they think Westminster just gives us the Barnett
Formula and we don’t put in any money.
Half Whitts abound dressed in Butchers Aprons
@silverdarling
I know that, im not sure how much clearer i can put it why i brought up Semenya !!
People are (rightly) complaining about trans activists behaviour which disrespects womens rights, in regards to ‘safe’ spaces for women.
So far so good ?
My point is that people, who are NOT trans activist nutjobs, who are actively discriminating against a FEMALE athlete, just trying to get by in HER ‘safe space’ ie: the running track.
Semenya has a medically recognised condition (hyperandrogenism) which means she has a high testosterone level.
Some MEN have very LOW testosterone levels, yet nobody accuses them of being women and suggests they compete with Female athletes or use the ladies toilets !
All discrimination is bad, clearly, and ALL areas of society indulge in it.
I just happen to find it sad that a young, vulnerable athlete should be treated the way she has been.
Especially from other women, some of whom may be against the type of trans activism under discussion on here.
A wee bit solidarity goes a long way.
That list of 100 things on here is ludicrously wrong on so many levels of ‘normal’ thinking, nobody is arguing that.
If Semenya wins her case, she wins it for WOMEN like her.
If she loses, Women’s rights (in sport) to be women on their own terms, are the losers.
And if that happens, who will defend women in sport then ?
Joe
True, the discursive turn is from the left, but it has been pirated by far-right male interests. Undermining the social position of biological women is part and parcel of the neo-liberalisation and shrinking of the state, and the ongoing erosion of human rights.
Collusion of fundamentalism and neoliberalism:
Its impact on women and minority rights
link to ideasforeurope.eu
@HandandShrimp,
I do not identify as `Scott`,
although i was born `Scott` i have chosen to be identified as `Scot`,
my life my choice 🙂
Morag@8.58pm.
Those are big claims when the IAAF test results have NEVER been published and AFTER testing, allowed Semenya to compete freely as a female athlete.
The ONLY reason that Semenya is being punished today, is related to her testosterone levels.
Hence the IAAF trying to circumvent an earlier CAS ruling against the type of testing used to discriminate against Semenya in the first place, despite an expert assertion that such a condition DOES NOT give an advantage of any sort re: performance.
Semenya is being used as a pawn in a battle between the IAAF and the CAS.
CAS are FINAL arbritrators in disputes in Sport.
IAAF has always fought this status as they believe THEY should be re: athletics.
If Morag has had access to Senenya’s medical files, that would be interesting to know how ?
Please do not say the ‘leak’ of the IAAF ‘sex test’…as that is heresay and the actions of the IAAF allowing unfettered access to female competition with no caveats, suggests the only thing they found was the hormonal imbalance (the high testosterone).
Otherwise, they would have banned her from competition as she was not fulfilling the criteria to compete as a woman, right, morag ?
I have followed this case for years, i am well versed in it.
holyrood committee footage
link to youtube.com
the average twitter user
link to youtube.com
the wokest take
link to youtube.com
banned 70s humour, discovered on illegal alt-right chatserver
link to youtube.com
humour and ridicule are your weapons – even taking nutcases seriously empowers them in a sense.
someone posted a link about a week ago – it was an article in national review by the worlds foremost tranny expert(?) – it was, quite a lot of stuff I have said in the past, bulked up with technical jargon and without the gratuitously offensive caricature … but a good summary would be : YES, the reality is just what you think it is but its obscured by activists talking bollocks … for example, there are no PERVERTS anymore … no, instead one has “paraphilias”; also notable is how the very terminology has been fucked around with – an attack on language is an attack on your mind
link to nationalreview.com
@Joe
Oh I know who created it, it’s who will end it I was talking about
@geeo 9.35 pm
Yes, but Caster Semenya is intersex, not female. Her social and cultural upbringing has perhaps meant her condition was not identified until the eyes of the world were on her. She was accepted as female and grew up as female because presumably at birth she looked female. Only when puberty kicked in did her testosterone levels increase from her cryptic testes but her male body did not respond fully.
I am reluctant to call her a man because of that but she is not just a woman with the genetic gift of more testosterone. If she had been identified earlier as Morag said the choice to allow her body to develop its male potential may have been available.
Her condition has benefited her athletic ability from more than just a bath of testosterone. Her pelvis will be different, her bone density will be different and she has muscle mass and muscle memory more in keeping with her genotype XY. Her cardiac capacity and lung capacity will be enhanced as well.
Upthread, Morag explains her condition which is well documented now.
I accept though she has become a cause celebre for TRAs and on a human level discussion about her genitalia and reproductive system is horrible.
However, that is what this toxic debate has become for us as females because if having a male reproductive system and XY chromosomes means you are still female, like Caster Semenya, how do natal females claim any identity at all?
What Ian Brotherhood says – and I know trans people. It’s not a subject that comes up in everyday conversation. So much other stuff to talk about.
Silverdarling
Hold on, you are claiming facts out or air.
There is NO medical evidence backing up your claims.
Please by all means link to it.
Not a RUMOUR or STORY about it, but the hard evidence.
It must be there if YOU know about it, surely.
Semenya is NOT and never has been, a darling of TRA’s, nor has she ever sought to be.
She is a WOMAN who simply wants to get on with being one.
Why do you have an issue with that ?
@geeo 9.54
I see you have contested Morag’s claims so I guess there is not much point in answering my post as I am of the same opinion. However, I appreciate your compassion for Caster Semenya, I just don’t agree that the evidence for her intersex state is disputed.
I understand that no formal statement has been made from the IAAF since when it was done for another athlete many years before, they attempted suicide. They have left it up to Caster Semenya to confirm what is generally accepted. By saying it is purely a high level of circulating androgens they have increased speculation rather than quashed it by saying it is idiopathic.
Compassion ??
No Silverdarling, i an sticking up for her human rights as a woman.
And nice to see you agree there is no evidence to back up your claims.
Nice.
@Millsy says: 30 May, 2019 at 5:40 pm:
” … RIGHT YOU LOT – YES , YOU ! I am reporting ALL of YOU for breaching the Transgender code of conduct for even THINKING about this issue .
YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WARNED !!”
Oh! Come on, Millsy, You know as well as I do the best way to get Scots to do something is to tell them they can’t.
The IAAF made such a hash of their case to CAS that they almost lost it.
They only won because CAS agreed that the IAAF had to act protect women’s athletics and so they overlooked the shortcomings of the IAAF’s efforts.
@Essexexile says: 30 May, 2019 at 5:47 pm:
” … the hardcore feminists who have their hooks well and truly into the SNP can push their agenda knowing they have NS full attention with indy out of the way.”
Well all that comment proves is that you do not grasp exactly what this new bill for referendums, and that is any and all referendums, is all about.
It is, perhaps, one of the cleverest legal moves I can ever recall ant Scottish Government coming up with. I’ll tell you this, though, there have been, “Emergency Bills”, pushed through Holyrood in very short order and this bill is not just about Indyref2 it will apply to any referendum and none will require Westminster to sign a section 30, AGREEMENT”. BTW; A section 30 agreement is just that, an agreement and not a permission.
@george wood, even in their latest ruling, CAS admitted they are discriminating against Semenya but ruled to allow the IAAF to do exactly that, despite the fact it does not make her faster, her human rights have been violated, and she risks serious medical risks if she is medicated to reduce
testosterone levels (higher risk of pulmonary embolism fkr example).
Here is a good report on it by an expert in the field.
link to theconversation.com
Corrupt Gummy Swinson , Brian May with Swiss Tony (Barry G) and Smeggle looking for the gold ring – his precious all on QT. I think I’m tripping on a Thursday night.
Kraftwerk done my favourite Trans song.
O/T
Methinks they have realised Ruthie is a busted flush in Scotland and we are going to get Rory Stewart and lots of Libdemery.
@Corrado Mella says: 30 May, 2019 at 6:50 pm:
” … They’re stupid and insufferable, they don’t make sense, speak in memes, as every other teenager does.”
Yep! I think that is the most correct comment today, Corrado Mella.
In my younger days the accepted belief was that it was perfectly normal for younger members of the human race to go through a stage of being attracted to people of the same sex but that most would, “grow out of it”.
The concept was that this attraction took the form of more or less hero worship of, perhaps a sports personality, film star, ballerina or recording artist. Et Al.
Yet most of these teens, including me, grew up, married the opposite sex and raised, (sometimes large), families, It was before the days of, “The Pill”.
I’ve been very reluctant to get involved whenever I see this particular ‘hot topic’ raised as your never sure to the reaction of your input. I’m never really sure when is the right time to respond either, do I respond etc.
Every time I see this issue being discussed I keep getting this thought.
A crime is committed and the Police swab for forensic evidence left at the scene. Traces of DNA are analysed and are shown to be male.
Where do the Police concentrate their search in order to find that male person of interest?
Are they looking for your average man on the street or the man self identifying and living as a woman?
Scot
Apologies for being t total
Or something…bloody minefield
@Ian Brotherhood says: 30 May, 2019 at 7:20 pm:
… have thrown their lot in with a vociferous narcissistic zealots. And if they dare break that silence – as Rev has, repeatedly – they are instantly castigated, forever stamped as ‘bigots’.”
Dear God, Ian, for a brief moment there I thought you said they had been, “castrated forever”.
Phew! You had me worried there for a moment, what with that picture up there with all those great big axes.
What I can never understand is that while we pussyfoot around what is politically correct to that extreme lever, its still ok for MSM to be ‘racist’ against Svottish people. See link here
link to m.youtube.com
Also note that British =English.
We need out now!
@geeo
CAS, to me, seem to be on the IAAF’s side and so as long as the IAAF doesn’t make an arse of it again, CAS will back them.
Sorry about typos last post. Its been a long day. 🙂
@ronnie anderson says: 30 May, 2019 at 7:20 pm:
” … Aye! Ronnie. see my reply to the post just before yours.
@geeo
The ruling by the IAAF:
“The DSD covered by the Regulations is limited to athletes with “46 XY DSD” – i.e. conditions where the affected individual has XY chromosomes. Accordingly, individuals with XX chromosomes are not subject to any restrictions or eligibility conditions under the DSD Regulations.”
As you can see by making those rulings they have excluded XX DSD athletes with high circulating testosterone but applied the ruling to individuals with 46XY DSD
If it were purely the high levels of testosterone CS would not be affected. It is the XY chromosomes that make the difference. Why would CS appeal it if it did not apply to her? It could not be clearer. They handled it badly because they made it so obvious who it was aimed at.
link to tas-cas.org
Dave McEwan Hill says:
`Methinks they have realised Ruthie is a busted flush in Scotland`,
BBC/MSM have squeezed the last drop of `SNP bad` out of Colonel Ruthie,she will be unceremoniously dumped,
bring on project `Swinson` the next turd to be polished by BBC/MSM,
same SNPbad sh@t just a different face.
Apparently Prince Harry gave a speech earlier today to open the Ashes (cricket) that stated something along the lines of how wonderful the diversity of the UK was and that it would be like home games for all the foreign teams.
I guess whomever wrote the speech must have forgot about the recent Windrush scandal…
Here’s one for Conservatives out there, who might believe they are innocent of involvement in creating the current sexual politics.
link
link to oro.open.ac.uk
Some people wondering why this is important.
It is important because it is a big vote loser. If the SNP and Greens bring this in, it risks an pro Indy Holyrood and a pro Independence vote.
Allowing men to use women’s changing rooms, toilets and places like rape shelters and female prisons will not go down well with female voters. Men, like a few on here who don’t see the problem, probably won’t give a toss because it’s only woman’s rights.
I don’t want to live in a country that trashes women’s rights to give more to men.
I don’t want to live in a country that allows men to dictate to woman what it is to be woman.
I don’t want to live in a country the tells lesbians that they have to consider men as sexual partners or they are being transphobic.
Scotland is taking the piss out of Javid. Long may it continue.
@ Illy says:30 May, 2019 at 8:34 pm:
” … And you wonder why trans folk are so aggressive about equal rights?”
No I don’t, Illy, Matter of fact I never give it a thought. I have no phobias about anyone and my attitude has always been that whatever anyone is it is their business and not mine – that is unless they try to shove their business up my nose, (so to speak), then it becomes a case of telling them I do not need to know.
I cannot recall ever seeing a straight people’s pride march anywhere. Why would that be?
Now don’t get me wrong – I have always defended people’s right to be what they want to be and that extends way back to when they hauled homosexual men off to prison. I knew several homosexual people and was never bothered or treated them other than as just ordinary human beings.
@geeo says: 30 May, 2019 at 9:35 pm:
” … I know that, im not sure how much clearer i can put it why i brought up Semenya !!”
Geeo, it doesn’t matter how clear you think you are you just happen to be wrong on this occasion.
Morag is actually an expert on this subject and her post has to be accepted as being correct.
I actually knew a person with that same condition way back when I and she, (the person had also been stated on her birth certificate as female), were teenagers
Being the person I am I always had at least one someone who had a trouble mind who confided in me. The person was in fact a very nice and gentle person but could never come to terms with the problem and eventually took their own life.
Back then there was really no way to decide and correct the problem. In any case as best as could be decided then the medics could not tell one way or the other and if they could had no way of correcting it. The condition is not new.
Thing about Swinson is, if the LibDums want to present a ‘credible’ (no chuckling) candidate for PM then they really need to have an English seat. The Great Helmsman was similarly undermined.
It’s late and this is a bit off topic: Here are a couple of short clips of alternative sports that highlight the high level of long term dedication and tenacity certain young people make the personal choice to put in to being successful at what they do.
Nobody can just be great at this sort of stuff off the bat, they have to be committed and dedicated to achieving and excelling in their goals.
You cannot learn this stuff in 10 mins sitting on yer arse swiping away on a laptop or smartphone. This is only possible with good old fashioned hard graft, with the inevitable aches and pains one has to endure with trial and error till it all clicks and you get the satisfaction of nailing a trick.
Might not be everyone’s bag but for me I think it’s great to see these young folk do this sort of stuff as it encompasses the clarity of thought, determination, and belief in oneself that is needed to succeed in an activity, which I feel mirrors life in some respects.
A 3min vid of Matthias Dandois performing his Flatland BMX tricks.
link to youtube.com
A 2min vid of Sarah Lezito showing her tenacity and practice she puts in to becoming good at Stuntbike riding. (Of course there are vids of slickly performed routines but this shows the work in progress efforts)
link to youtube.com
RP@12.31am
Yet there has never been actual evidence that Semenya is as Morag and co says she is.
Why is this difficult ?
I actually give up, think what you like.
Silverdarling.
The IAAF are more corrupt than the drug cheat athletes.
But hey, you believe whatever you like.
If Semenya had the “46 XY DSD” she could already be barred from competing prior to the latest CAS ruling by the IAAF.
But fuck it, be right, past caring.
Robert Peffers says:
@Gary 1.00am
Well if standing up for woman’s rights is extreme then I’m proud to be extreme.
If standing against misogeny and homophobia is extreme then I’m proud to be extreme.
You are on the wrong side on this one, as usual the Rev is on the right side.
re, “political correctness gone mad”.
link to economist.com
IIIy @ 8.34
Since You mention it….
No we don’t wonder why Trans People are “ aggressive” about their rights.
Long experience has taught us that aggression will be used when men don’t get their way, that’s the whole fucking point.
Trans Women don’t seem to have left aggression behind them with their old identity, and you just pretty much said so!
Once again I’ll ask you ( now you’ve decided that your not banned from Wings) …
Don’t you think getting your rights should not be done at the expense of others and the doing of it is the responsibility Trans community to explore?
Park the “aggression “ and try convincing Women of the case would be a start!
Try looking at it from a different point of view
EG
It’s been claimed that menstrual cramp can be for some women as painful as a heart attack, and very debilitating, so can you see a case for those Women to use the disabled bays when parking?
Should they get a Blue Badge?
Should they have to demonstrate they are one of the percentage of women who suffer like this, or should the Badge be available for the asking?
This is not the case for all Women but it is for a significant percentage of them. I’d wager, a larger percentage of the population than the Trans community, so it could be argued.
Or do you think that that would seriously undermine and disadvantage our disabled citizens, another protected minority ?
O/T
Andrew Tickell:-
link to thenational.scot
O/T
A must read from WGD with embedded article by Andrew Tickell.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
It is this kind of self-indulgent narcissistic navel-gazing that destroys any meaningful connect between progressivism and ordinary people, and brings the very purpose of a politics of meaningful change into serious disrepute. These intolerant idealogues hollowed-out the Labour Party so now they have jumped host to the Greens and the SNP to wreak the same havoc on them.
As someone upthread rightly pointed out, it’s the same coterie of self-entitled splitterists who cause all these unnecessary diversions. This absurd misuse of “woke” simply oozes exceptionalism: the soi-disant “enlightened”.
Best to quietly sideline these people and stick to the basic principle that everyone deserves respect but meanings can only be based on hard fact, not fantasy. The latter way lies madness, Huxley’s “Brave New World”.
But seriously, is there anyone in the leadership of either pro-indy party who is really pushing for this? Or is it rather a miniscule minority of foghorns importing their extreme notions from elsewhere?
Liz G , Shiregirl , George Wood and others I am on the womens side , as I posted on a previous thread the threats and abuse some of the SNP females have recd on twatter is abysmal , and the despicable language that these defenders and promoters of this cause use is totally confrontational
I have stated quite openly that I feel that the SNP should be parking this distraction and concentrate on independence , my wife and daughter are rather annoyed at the direction of travel this appears to be going , and are equally concerned that the SNP hierarchy are listening to and being manipulated by vociferous and forceful individuals and organisations
Dave McEwan Hill says:
30 May, 2019 at 11:11 pm
O/T
Methinks they have realised Ruthie is a busted flush in Scotland and we are going to get Rory Stewart and lots of Libdemery.
The latest in a long line of busted flushes…
There’s something creepy about Rory, and kinda pathetic, but his greatest and most dangerous achievement in life is to tell a bare faced monumental lie and pass a polygraph test while he’s doing it.
There’s a bohemian element to the way he thinks, which kinda gives you hope, but once it gets your attention, you realise it’s not really spontaneous originality , but more like the very dull and formulaic character you’d expect to see playing Ygor the oddball manservant in virtually all Hammer House of Horror Films from the 70’s.
He’s like the Eton love child of Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen and Gollum.
Petra @ 02:46,
A most welcome change of topic, IMO!
The only thing I’m aware of that Paul seems to miss is that the Bill also includes the provision that any previous referendum with a particular question already agreed with the Electoral Commission in effect creates a precedent that enables the same format to be reused without further discussion or agreement. This short-circuits any possible delaying tactic on that score and insulates that aspect of IR2 from any possible S.30 interference. (As indeed also does the provision for 16-17 and EU voting rights.)
Geeo, everything I and SilverDarling said about Caster Semenya is in the latest CAS ruling, including about her being intersex. “DSD” is the currently accepted terminology for intersex, disorders (or differences) of sexual development. And 46XY is the male genotype, which she has.
What Caster Semenya is, is not a mystery. She started as a male foetus but because of decreased sensitivity to testosterone her genitalia were underdeveloped and mostly inside her body. Because of this she was believed to be a girl and was brought up as a girl. She identifies as a woman and nobody is allowed to take that basic human right from her.
Nevertheless she has underdeveloped male genitalia including testicles. She went through male puberty. She has a broken (masculine) voice). With the proper treatment, if she wanted to, she quite probably could becime a father like Erik Schinneger did.
The question is, should she be allowed to compete in women’s athletics events? That is a matter which is entirely for the appropriate authorities to decide. In earlier decades the answer would have been an unequivocal no, and in my opinion that is the only fair answer from the point of view of the 46XX women she’s competing against. However past enforcement of this rule has caused serious distress and indeed harm to other athletes and the authorities have backtracked and are now allowing anyone who was believed to be female at birth and was brought up as female to compete. That’s up to them, not us, but it doesn’t change Caster Semenya’s diagnosis.
In my opinion they made a mistake when they decided to allow males brought up as females to continue to compete. It’s not fair to actual females, and it’s an open invitation to unscrupulous countries to game the system by deliberately bringing up slightly ambiguous boys as girls in the hope they’ll win medals.
Sure, it’s hard for the people who’ve been genuinely wrongly diagnosed at birth, but to a large extent that’s been because of the cackhanded way they handled the testing in the past. Nobody’s biology changes. Make it known that only athletes who have either no functional SRY gene, or of they do have such a gene also have CAIS, will be allowed to compete in women’s events. Offer every promising girl the chance to be tested as a junior, to make sure any distresing surprises happen before anyone hits the big time. And stick to it.
But they won’t. They’ve backtracked too much already, and countries are already combing the backstreets for possible intersex “girls” in the hope of more medals. And anyway they’re now letting actual males in, so what does it matter any more. Women’s sports are doomed. Find something else to do, girls.
It’s been claimed that menstrual cramp can be for some women as painful as a heart attack, and very debilitating, so can you see a case for those Women to use the disabled bays when parking?
I’ve never had a heart attack so I can’t tell you. But I can tell you that I wouldn’t have been driving a car at all, I’d have been sweating in a corner with my toes curling and in no position to drive a lawnmower never mind a car.
But it only lasted for two hours every time, so there is that.
From the Week in the War on Women thread, a link from Cherry to an article on the billionaires funding this:
link to thefederalist.com
For Morgatronto
prove someone read your post and got it
Trans Europe Express
@Capella if true, that’s a brilliant strategy. They’ve got feminists & minority groups viciously clawing at each other, all the radicals fighting among themselves. Somebody must be pissing themselves at the whole jolly wheeze.
@ BuggerLePanda.
Thanks ?
Please excuse the question mark Panda
I have always greatly admired the bravery and personal dignity of Robert Millar/Philippa York. Perhaps in my naivety, as shown in the difference between the individual and the group, I would like to believe that she would not want much to do with the whole snarling, aggressive nature of trans activists against women.
Breeks at 3.12am
Rory Stewart worked for the security services so telling bare faced lies was an essential daily obligation. He does remind me of Stan Laurel.
@Morag 3.28
An excellent crystal clear post, both compassionate and respectful in its expression. Thank you for that.
As one fundraiser comes to an end another one begins. Our James Kelly, Scot Goes Pop has started one.
link to gofundme.com
One tip to the women who haven’t already figured it out. If you need something for cramps then link to nhs.uk
might be useful.
For the cramp version you can pay at least twice as much as the IBS. Because the latter is one