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Wings Over Scotland

Journey To Yes

Posted on July 26, 2017 by

The complete series so far. If you’ve got a story like this to tell, or you know anyone who does, Phantom Power want to hear from you – drop them a line.

Miguel, writer.

Jenny, journalist.

Clive, civil servant.

Ashley, formerly-Tory councillor.

Nina and Craig, health workers.

Bryce, republican.

Chris Wilson, Scottish Liberal Democrats.

AC Grayling, historian.

Richard Murphy, political economy professor.

Simon Pia, former Scottish Labour spin doctor.

Hilary and Carey, farmers.

James, pensioner and former soldier.

Sophie, philosophy professor.

Kathi, language teacher from East Germany.

Jackie Kemp, journalist.

Mark, from Edinburgh via London.

Elizabeth, cosmetic scientist.

Erin, school pupil.

Christopher, biker.

Tom Morton, former BBC broadcaster and No campaigner.

Mike Dailly, solicitor and anti-poverty campaigner.

Caroline, from Edinburgh via Hastings.

Daniel, from Dundee via London.

Fraser, former Labour voter.

(All clips via the always-excellent Phantom Power Films.)

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219 to “Journey To Yes”

  1. Croompenstein says:

    Excellent, wonder if Tristan has seen it 🙂

  2. Andrew Davidson says:

    Well done and thank you, Chris Wilson.

  3. Free Scotland says:

    Chris Wilson should be put in charge of Lib Dem party-political broadcasts.

    A breath of fresh air.

  4. Macart says:

    Well reasoned Chris and well said.

  5. T.roz says:

    Sensible and reasonable, nice one Chris.

  6. ClanDonald says:

    Can we get a compilation of these, each one edited to 60 seconds? So a single video lasting 18 minutes (so far)?

    Willing to pay.

  7. Dan Huil says:

    Well said, Chris. I wonder what wee Willie what’s-his-name thinks abut it. Nah, Ah dinnae really.

  8. Jack Murphy says:

    Welcome aboard Chris. I’m a young former ‘liberal’ minded Labour supporter,and now firmly believe a Yes vote is vital for the future of Scotland and all who live here.
    It’s a must—-we will do it—–for everyone here.

    Chart our own future—-Yes. 🙂

  9. Dr Jim says:

    He caused a Stooshie at the time when he said what he said but unfortunately if we don’t get a move on almost immediately The great Willie Rennie who’s always good for a laugh will be proved right as when the Repeal bill becomes law all the devolved administrations will be either abolished or stripped out

    The Tories are planning it now and I believe it’s why they never signed the Article 50 document right away which gave the impression of bumbling incompetence but it was really a delaying tactic to allow the people who really run things (The Secret Sir Humphreys) to come up with a solution for the survival of London and Ingland which after all if you’re an Inglish politician it’s where you’re votes are

    It’ll be all very well for politicians in Scotland to say they’ll not let that happen but there’s sod all they can do about if and when it comes, although if the Tories do it the jails will be full and they’ll have to send in the Sojers (stupid thing to do)

    But they will!

    And another piece of history will be rewritten as the coming together of an even stronger UK with the new Scotlind holiday and Safari park at the heart of it…..Oh how Lovely!

  10. Artyhetty says:

    Great to see this. Not quite sure why this young man is in the Lib Dems though, they always have leant towards the right have they not.

    The EU and England’s determination to drag us out of it, for sure has to be the most blatantly undemocratic aspect of this so called union since 300 years ago. The colonial mindset among the britnats, and their sense of ownership and having a right to own, anything, and anyone, has to be rejected by Scotland.

    It’s the 21st century and the britnat aristocracy in particular need to be dragged into it. They need to stand on their own two feet, and stop relying on Scotland to bail them out of the mess they have made.

    Scotland, as A.C Grayling said, is a European country.

    It’s interesting to hear what people in England do say about Scotland in these films. I am as guilty as they are of having been quite ignorant about Scotland prior to living here. Mostly in terms of history, but also culturally, and of course economically, but also, in terms of outlook on life.

    Scotland really should be independent, there is simply no question about that. We all know why it is not and why Scotland has been kept tethered to the so called UK, on a very short leash, being fed scraps and being kicked into submission.

    That is no way to be treated, because if allowed to carry on, like a beaten dog, eventually, it will die.

  11. Highland Wifie says:

    Tick tock tick tock. It’s only a matter of time.
    Our young people know what’s at stake and will secure our independence.
    Well said Chris.

  12. Capella says:

    Good for you, Chris. It’s not easy to stand out from the crowd and speak up for what you believe. But you’ve shown you have the courage to do that. Good luck in the future. I hope you can persuade many of your colleagues to support YES .

  13. colin alexander says:

    Richard Murphy points out we don’t know the true picture for Scotland’s finances within the UK NOW, nevermind a future indy Scotland.

    So, he can’t say whether Scotland would be worse off or better off than it currently is now. We just don’t have the data.

    It’s a given, the Unionists will say: Worse off. Very worse off.

    How do we address that?

    Also, in the opening line of the video, he talk about indy Scotland “having it’s own currency”. Last time YES / SNP were fixed on sharing Pound Sterling with rUK. Clearly the opposite of what he was speaking about.

    These were serious failings last time. Have they been sorted in THREE YEARS? So far there is no evidence from the SNP to say that they have. The SNP weren’t talking independence, let alone planning for it, as far as I know.

    I know many on here see no problem with that. Playing our cards close to the chest etc.

    Fine for those who trust the SNP. But that won’t persuade the majority to vote YES. The majority don’t vote SNP.

    If indy by indyref you must convince the majority they will be at least as well off or better off with indy. Keeping secrets won’t do that. Neither will guesswork like a pro-indy version of GERS or guestimates about the future price of Brent crude oil.

    Currently the price of a barrel of oil is about 45% of the value it was in 2014 and even then the majority voted NO, and for many the reason was given as economic uncertainties.

    What’s being done to strengthen the economic argument for indy by the SNP / Scot Govt?

  14. James Barr Gardner says:

    O/T Just received awesome hat and badges. Many Thanks.

  15. G says:

    Well said, Chris. A well argued piece, and it must have taken guts to put forward your views at conference.

    Artyhetty @ 12:53 pm

    “It’s interesting to hear what people in England do say about Scotland in these films. I am as guilty as they are of having been quite ignorant about Scotland prior to living here. Mostly in terms of history, but also culturally, and of course economically, but also, in terms of outlook on life.”

    Many people born and bred in Scotland are profoundly ignorant of the history and culture of the country. Until quite recently, it was mostly absent from the curriculum in school. I don’t know whether that has changed now. And, unfortunately, the BBC has a role in setting the agenda on culture just as it does with the news.

  16. Dek says:

    Thanks Chris and Phantom Power. Spot on analysis and all the best in your mission to win over the persuadables in your party.

  17. Marie Clark says:

    Welcome aboard Chris. A well reasoned and argued piece, from a very articulate young man. Very sensible.

  18. Artyhetty says:

    When I said people in England are ignorant about many many things when it comes to Scotland, including myself before actually living here, I thought, oh it sounds anti english to say that.

    But in reality, how many folk in England know which powers are devolved and which are not. How many know that Scotland’s NHS, education system and law system are and have never been part of England’s systems. How many know about the Darien ‘project’, or the clearances. How many know that in fact scotland sees virtually non of the revenues from their own oil, or other resources. How many know that Scotland’s percentage of casualties in the world wars was higher than that of England’s.

    How many people in England know that Scotland is forced to pay for Englnd’s infrastructure, even when it’s a britnat vanity project that is of no benefit to Scotland whatsoever.

    People in England are mostly living in a bubble, believing that Scotland is a subsidy junkie when in fact Scotland keeps the other parts of the so called UK afloat. I even would take a guess that many think that the border is at Hadrian’s wall.

    Lastly, how many people in England know, or think it’s OK, that Scotland’s emergency services are forced to pay VAT to the UK treasury when the rUK do not.

    It’s important to me, what the people of England think
    of Scotland, the Scottish government and the people of Scotland, and how abusive it actually is and it’s getting worse.

    Family and friends, as well as those who had to leave England to go to the other side of the world, to have a better standard of living, just are not able to consider Scotland as a country, like the ones they live in. It is ignorance that keeps that mindset and we need that to change as well. It would help to alter peoples’ perceptions and dispel the myths created by the UK government about how Scotland is a basket case, that needs to be trained, kept subservient and even invisible if at all possible.

    The SNP are at the momemt the only ones who are working for Scotland, and who are attempting to portray our country as it should be, a forward looking, modern, inclusive and dare I say, caring country, on the world stage.

    Time for a bit of bravery like this young man, from the unionists who are sceptical and too feart to come out and make a stand for Scotland. Brexit will happen, anyone who thinks somehow a magic wand will be waved and abracadabra, no brexit, is simply deluded.

    Sorry long comment, off to scan in my print of the central belt and the nuke subs. Wonder if any gallery will show it. Hope so.

  19. ScottieDog says:

    @colin alexander

    Some good points.

    It might just come down to an emotional vote in the end Colin if Brexit looks particularly bad for Scotland. That said I think the UK MSM will be working very hard to promote the Pollyanna stories over the coming months.

    All that said, yes I think there are questions to be answered but the first thing that must be stressed is that the neoliberal economists have had their day. The BBC, MSM and the amateur blogger types Radio Scotland like to have on will continue to promote the idea that the economy is like a household and that somehow Scotland has a massive defcit even though we can’t issue bonds.

    No disrespect to commonweal but their ‘goto’ currency person isn’t anymore qualified than I am.

    What the YES movement must do is enlist the views of more impartial economists, but crucially progressive economists – the ones who predicted the financial crisis coming in 2007 and who are predicting another soon. The ones who understand the macro economy rather than the micro economy and that govt finances are very different to household finances.

    There are plenty out there like Murphy who will provide an objective view based on how currencies and economies work rather than that which is written down in the textbooks and taught in university. That economics has failed badly and needs to be called out for the sham that it really is.

    Yes we need card carrying economists who will stand toe to toe with the ‘expert think tanks’ and demolish their phoney arguments on the spot. I know I can.

    The wealth of a county is down to its resources. The economy is energy. A sovereign currency is needed to unlock and move these resources around. Money is simply electronic double-entry book keeping. The 1BN to the DUP was simply marked up in the treasury account- not sourced from some bond holders.

    Progressive economists believe in one nation one currency and so do I. You simply can’t have fiscal freedom without it and there is no default risk.

    Look at Iceland. A country who’s banking system was 12 times its GDP until the financial crisis.
    It’s well documented what they did with bankers but less well documented (for obvious reasons) was their continued fiscal expansion (anti-austerity) since then creating jobs and growing the economy to the extent that they are running a govt surplus – something that should only be exercised to cool down the economy. Imagine, a country of 300,000 people that didn’t survive after 2008, they thrived, simply because their government had an understanding of macroeconomics.

  20. Artyhetty says:


    Yes that is also very true. It’s what matters most, I agree.
    I have friends who are Scottish who as you say, never were told about their own history at school. It’s a long road and a big mountain to climb I am sure, to change that. 🙁

  21. Petra says:

    Well done Chris in particular standing up in front of your party members / supporters and reminding them that we can’t remain in the UK AND the EU. It’s make up your mind time now.



    Still living with the Thatcher legacy in conjunction with living in Big T land right now. Who next? Labour, Tory … Tory, Labour …. UKip, Labour? They’ve had all the chances they’re going to get. Over 300 years of them and have failed abysmally.
    Time to bail out folks!

    ‘Thatcher is STILL killing working class Scots, says shock NHS report.’


    I know that most people on here don’t believe in astrology (all, lol!) but this is what one (and there’s others) well known UK astrologer has to say about the Union. The video is fairly short but if you can’t stand to listen to it all listen from 3:18 mins in (if you are inclined to do so!).

  22. Proud Cybernat says:

    “It’s a given, the Unionists will say: Worse off. Very worse off.

    How do we address that?”

  23. Proud Cybernat says:

    Just goes to show–supporting Indy is NOT about or synonymous with supporting the SNP.

    It’s about INDEPENDENCE. That’s all.

    Well said, young Chris. Wish there were more like you in the LDs.

  24. Robert Graham says:

    The more the better day by day more see the truth.
    Thanks to for the national link , i stopped subscribing to the online edition as there is absolutely no moderation on its comment pages , anything goes it’s like the Scotsman , surely it’s not beyond them to at least have a look and dump most of the nutjobs who seem to have taken up residence, it has become a magnet for daily mail nutters .

  25. gordoz says:

    Brave lad. Sound info for switherers !

  26. Davy says:

    Another step towards independence.

  27. galamcennalath says:

    Artyhetty says:

    How many people in England know that …

    Yes, the general ignorance is sometimes astonishing.

    Another area they seem to know little about was our 2014 referendum. The most widespread view is most Scots opted to retain the status quo, so we should all accept it.

    Of course that isn’t how the voting went – many NO voters were led to believe their NO vote would lead to fundamental and widespread changes to the UK and Scotland’s place in it.

    Most seem oblivious to the way promises were made in order to win the NO vote, and never kept. Contrast that with the equally woolly unrealistic promises made to win a Leave vote in England. Those promises are now sacrosanct!

    Two distinct countries allegedly in partnership, but treated and thought of quite differently.

  28. Robert Peffers says:

    @Artyhetty says: 26 July, 2017 at 2:08 pm:

    “When I said people in England are ignorant about many many things when it comes to Scotland, including myself before actually living here, I thought, oh it sounds anti english to say that.”

    No, Artyhetty, it isn’t anti-English and being ignorant is not anything like being stupid. It simply means they do not know the facts. In that respect the normally reasonable and kind people of England are absolutely no different from the Scots, Welsh or, (both sides of the borders), people of Ireland.

    Not only have we all been fed a totally corrupted version of our individual histories, scripted and designed to mislead and to reflect what Westminster wanted us to believe but what we did get was made to be an overly dry and really uninteresting subject on the schools curriculum.

    You can sum British History up in surprisingly few words.

    Real history is WRITTEN history. Before written history, everything is deemed to be, “prehistoric”. Thus there are only about 5000 years of real written history.

    The tradition of recording significant events in “the history books” started with the Sumerians in Mesoptamia in 2900 BC or possibly, slightly earlier than that, in ancient Egypt. However, this theory is rather controversial for those cuneiform records are only assumed to be accurate because of being found in the tombs of the people they refer to.

    Go listen to any modern funeral service of someone you know, who was not particularly close to you, and you will be aware of the strange cult of not speaking ill of the dead.

    Also what often passes as history is actually one person’s interpretation of events that occurred long before that person was born. Check out, for example, when the Venerable Bede wrote his, “Histories”. Bede was a Historian and a Doctor of the Church, born 672 or 673; died 735.

    In the last chapter of work, titled, “Ecclesiastical History of the English People”. Bede recorded something about his own life. This is really speaking, all that is known about him. It throws some light on the work for which he is best remembered.

    He writes:-

    “Thus much concerning the ecclesiastical history of Britain, and especially of the race of the English, I, Baeda, a servant of Christ and a priest of the monastery of the blessed apostles St. Peter and St. Paul, which is at Wearmouth and at Jarrow (in Northumberland), have with the Lord’s help composed so far as I could gather it either from ancient documents or from the traditions of the elders, or from my own knowledge.

    Other than that, what is taken as, “History”, are really just annals and king lists. Cuneiform records were largely found in destroyed ‘libraries’ such as Ninevah’s.

    The greater bulk of cuneiform documents translated so far are actually legal, religious and accounting records with a smattering of scribbled instruction texts. So they are really just lists and annals.

    To be actual History requires some analysis and none of these old records analyse anything so our, so called, history is thus basis of often much later analysis. The earliest historical analysis we have is from the Greeks.

    As for Britain’s early history goes we find that the Roman Records were more or less either someone’s own version of events sent back to Rome to big up their own political career or by some close relative or supporter. Indeed many such records helped propel their author’s subject to become the Emperor of the Roman Empire and often we have other contrasting versions by, or on behalf of, other career political figures.

    Quite often the truth of the facts is easily seen as somewhat untruthful simply by comparing the actual events as stated to the events themselves. For example the very obvious erroneous claim of a, “Union of the Crowns claimed to have formed a United Kingdom in 1603 but then required a Treaty of Union in 1706/7 before there was actually such a union.

    So history itself proves that union was not only forced upon Scotland but was done so illegally even against the then established, and different, independent laws of both Kingdoms.

  29. Petra says:


    A couple of articles in the National today:

    ‘Wee Ginger Dug: Why I’m backing Wings Over Scotland against claim of homophobia’

    ”AS regular readers of The National and my blog will know, these columns are not in fact written by a rescued mongrel from the most southernly Catalan-speaking city in Spain, they’re written by a gay man called Paul Kavanagh. I came out a long time ago, so long ago that Are You Being Served’s Mr Humphries was about the only visibly gay person on the telly. And it was not a whole bundle of laughs, although to be fair 1970s sitcoms did have their moments…..”


    Kevin McKenna: Ruth Davidson’s mince about equality is just a thinly veiled leadership pitch.’

    ”RUTH DAVIDSON’s juvenile approach to conducting politics in Scotland was evident yesterday in her party’s response to the front page of The National. Murdo Fraser is a prominent acolyte in the Scottish Tories’ scarecrow faction which has been known to blame the melting glaciers in Greenland on a second “nasty and decisive” independence referendum. Fraser was somewhat exercised yesterday following The National’s front page story revealing that Nicola Sturgeon would be holding a summit meeting with the leaders of the Scottish Independence Convention at some point in the next few weeks. “The First Minister spending her time meeting independence campaigners will simply confirm the Scottish public’s view that independence always has and always will be the only thing the SNP cares about,” he said.

    We’ll leave aside the observation that Ms Sturgeon has agreed to meet the leaders of the broad-based independence movement over the summer holidays. Perhaps though, this is being unkind to Mr Fraser, a politician whose entertaining interventions at Holyrood have led witnesses to wonder if he has wandered into the wrong building by mistake. It may well be that Mr Fraser simply doesn’t know that parliament is in recess at all………”


  30. Chris Wilson says:

    Colin- I brought up the scottish currency because I was asked if I had any doubts about independence, so I discussed the potential currency options which included a new Scottish currency and keeping the pound. Whether a new Scottish currency is likely or not, I am unsure, but I thought it best to mention it as a possibility.

  31. Golfnut says:

    @ Colin Alexander.
    People need to be made aware of just how much a fudge GERS are. Yes we need to be able explain within reason how Scotland will structure its finances, banking system, Nationalisation of strategic industries etc, but we also need to be a lot more aggressive in dealing with the onslaught which will undoubtly occur when insured is called. I saw a interesting peice on Facebook the other day, a question really, ROI treasury record shows income generated from Irish Whiskey at £2.78 billion Euros, Irish whiskey represents just 4% of the world market. Scotch Whiskey on the other represents 80% of the world market and yet generates just £5 billon, that doesn’t make sense. No reason to believe that ROI are misrepresenting the value in their report, on the hand, theirs westminster.

  32. Andy-B says:

    Typical, BS from the once semi-respected Times newspaper.

    The SNP has been in government for ten years, they have more MSP’s and MP’s than any other mainstream party, in Scotland, and are the third largest party at Westminster.
    But don’t let that get in the way of a fantasy land story from the Times.

  33. Robert Peffers says:

    @James Barr Gardner says: 26 July, 2017 at 1:28 pm:

    “O/T Just received awesome hat and badges. Many Thanks.”

    Yeah! Me too and also with many thanks. Been under the weather a bit though, so not been able to go out and use either the hat or badges.

  34. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Yes we need to be able explain within reason how Scotland will structure its finances, banking system, Nationalisation of strategic industries etc…”

    Exactly – “Within reason”. What we should not do, imo, is fall into the British Nationalist trap of answering every bleeding question they confront us with, demanding that we should dot every ‘i’ and cross every ‘t’. We should tell them to feck off and, in fact, demand from them to tell the people of Scotland just how the UK economy is expected to function after Brexit when the £ will be worth less than the value than the deposit on an irn bru bottle and we’ll all be feasting on chlorinated KFCs.

  35. Dr Jim says:

    If you’re a Unionist because you believe in being a Unionist British type loyalty person at least I can respect that as being honest
    What I wont respect is when the Unionists talk economic garbage and attempt to justify lies to bolster their stupid argument which has no basis and no truth

    So mention economics to me and get ready to dodge the slap verbal or otherwise, these time wasters deserve no more of our time, it’s all talk talk talk to just let them make their point, well they get the point of my finger in their eye and move on kid

    Scotland is too soft on these people, why should we give them our valuable time to allow them to make up their own lies I’d rather poke hot matches up my nose to clear out the hair and let me breathe more easily

    Burny chewin gum

  36. Dr Jim says:

    Tell the Yoons nuthin
    Pit it oan the side o a bus jist like their ain liars and tell them we’ll gae them free toothpaste and mouthwash for life an sweeties fur the weans then efter they go fur it jist tell them whit their ain party telt them “Aye bit it wiz an election yir allowed tae talk shite” and then they aw laffed

    The trouble with all that is they were laughing at us the people they lied to, they thought what they perpetrated against millions of people was funny

    Maybe it is in rich people land but have any of these politicians who did this been to anyones doors since they did it, not up here in Jockland they haven’t, coz they’d likely get their names taken and that pointy finger in the eye

  37. Capella says:

    @ Andy B – I noticed from Stu’s twitter that the author of that “SNP are tanking” article is paid by the Tories. So no more credible that Theresa May’s campaign photo ops in empty factories.
    The Times is now a Murdoch rag. Need anyone say more?

  38. Proud Cybernat says:

    Two fingers might be best…

  39. manandboy says:

    British History may be generally understood by reflecting on the history of Scotland’s oil.

  40. auld highlander says:

    Aye indeed manandboy, as they throw us some pocket money.

  41. manandboy says:

    The SPFL Board today announced, following legal advice from eminent Senior Counsel, Gerry Moynihan Q.C., that there will be no further disciplinary proceedings taken by the SPFL connected with the use by Rangers of EBTs and other tax schemes.

    The odds of Stu winning his case against Kezia just lengthened considerably, not because she is not guilty, but because, as we were reminded today, like RFC, she can’t be found guilty under the British Establishment system.

  42. Lara says:

    Another great video!

  43. ElaineS says:

    Chris Wilson! Was an amazing young man and without a doubt an absolute asset to a future Independent Scottish Liberal Democrat party. I’m sure he has given many more Scottish Lib Dems food for thought, may he long continue breaking down the barriers towards Independence for Scotland.

  44. Ealasaid says:

    Very well said Chris! Well thought out and articulated and your own man to boot, despite what others in your party have said. I think you will have a great career in politics ahead of you.

    If you are still around. I have left a message for you on O/T.

  45. heedtracker says:

    Great video. What an articulate young man. Stick at it kid!

    Ofcourse Scotland will be a successful nation state, EU member too.

    Look about you Scots. Every other country around us, except those that are run by another one, are incredible successes.

    Get off your fucking knees, basically:D

  46. Ken500 says:

    Tommy Sheridan did commit perjury. Coulson did. Without Coulson committing perjury Tommy Sheridan would not have been convicted. How can someone be convicted of perjury on the evidence of someone committing perjury. A nonsense. Coulson denied NI was breaking the Law, illegally phone tapping and illegally surveilling and hacking people. If Coulson had admitted it Tommy Sheridan would not be convicted. The evidence was flawed and would not have stood up in court. An unfair conviction. The trial would have collapsed. He should get admonished and damages. He was denied the right to appeal by the ‘London’ court. The mass murder Blair set up to deny justice to people in Scotland. Murdoch is a master criminal.

  47. Ken500 says:

    @ Tommy Sheridan did NOT commit perjury.

  48. heedtracker says:

    manandboy says:
    26 July, 2017 at 6:08 pm
    British History may be generally understood by reflecting on the history of Scotland’s oil.

    If you’re from Aberdeen, in the early 80’s you got used to be told by your English friends, bosses and colleagues, NOT Scottish oil and gas will run out by the year 2000. How wrong they were ofcourse.

    Snatcher Thatcher’s toryboy crew also completely destroyed any nascent Scottish green energy, just to make sure and with utterly savage tory ruthlessness.

    Scottish history is not going to look back too kindly on late 20th century Scotland at all, mugs, dupes, suckers and chicken.

    But nothing is static, historically. It changes all the time and its always written by the winners. So let’s win.

  49. Robert Kerr says:

    Tommy Sheridan was a clear and present danger to the Britnat Establishment and had to be nullified,
    Remember the efforts to nail his wife for pilfering a few spirit miniatures!

  50. Golfnut says:

    Let’s not be to hard on either ourselves or those no longer with us. They were lied to, by politicians the media, and of course the unions.
    The theft of our resources could not have been achieved without complicit and coordinated assistance of the politicians who lied and mislead us, the media read and listened to, and the unions who even then put party politics before their members best interests. There were many exceptions of course, but propaganda then, though more subtle, was just as relentless. Westminster could never have achieved the levels of theft without the complicit assistance of unionists politicians facilitating and concealing the plundering of Scotlands resources, with many of them presiding over and supposedly representing some the most deprived areas of Europe. It’s a history we must make sure pass on to future generations, they must not be spared our anger or contempt.

  51. auld highlander says:

    For some reason the Proclaimer’s song Cap In Hand comes to mind.

  52. heedtracker says:

    Golfnut says:
    26 July, 2017 at 9:48 pm
    Let’s not be to hard on either ourselves or those no longer with us.

    Why not?

    We’re at junction in Scottish history now, since Holyrood got going again really.

    When Scots history is written for our time, its really going to be all about Chris’s generation, not ours, the era of the cringers.

    Will Chris’s gen reject the incredible goal and opportunity that Scottish nation statehood will be, or do they grind along with and under, tory socio economics of Brexit England, red or blue?

    Cringing region of greater England or Big country Scotland?

  53. Scott says:

    Good on you Chris Wilson.

    One day, you might become Prime Minister of an independent Scotland.

    Good luck.

  54. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    As ‘auld highlander’ has raised the music subject, I feel it is appropriate to stick this link in again.

    Remember – this was a a mainstream festival, not a pro-indy rally. From T In The Park 2015, a young audience, who knew all the words…

  55. Valerie says:

    Well done, Chris. It takes guts to speak your mind, when it differs from the herd. Too many just can’t be bothered to challenge the accepted wisdom of the group.

    You know there will be a welcome in the Yes movement.

    One thing that struck me on the visuals. 2 of the politicians featured in that Vow stunt, now out our f Parliament, and the remaining one, Miliband, sitting mostly quiet, on the back benches.

    No accountability, no scrutiny over that disgusting stunt perpetrated on an electorate. Brexit exactly the same.

    I agree with everyone’s comments about being British, or this Union. I’ve never felt, or paid homage to being British.

    When I was younger, I equated UK with the class system, and it was more about socialism. I would say in the last 4 years, this has grown into strong feelings of horror and disgust, as I’ve come to be more educated in the pure criminality of the Establishment.

    I have this really uneasy sense of impending horrors to come for Scotland.

  56. Valerie says:


    Great happy vid!

  57. Golfnut says:

    @ heedtracker
    You don’t sound like much of cringer, neither am I, nor any of my family. They are out there, we know that, but In the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s steelworkers and railwaymen, engineers and shipbuilders, factory workers, shop workers, labourers and every other kind of working man and woman didn’t vote labour because they suffered from the cringe. They voted for them because they believed they were looking after their best interests, and that trust was betrayed. They are still betraying us, Corbyn and dugdale and Murray, Davidson and Fraser and Rennie, a corrupt media has helped brainwash half our population into believing this counties broke, that’s fcking criminal.

  58. David P says:

    From the previous topic (late post)

    From the programme ‘joy of stats’, do a search on the following. (Sorry, struggling with links, where’s Nana when you need her.)

    Hands rosling economic development 200 countries 200 years In 4 minutes

    Important line from the commentary

    “Look what happens when the colonies gain their independence… They get healthier and healthier and healthier”.

    And wealthier and wealthier and wealthier. A premonition of our future.

    And also wealthier! Every single one of them

  59. Nana says:

    @David P

    Your wish….

    Hans Rosling’s 200 Countries, 200 Years, 4 Minutes – The Joy of Stats – BBC Four

  60. Capella says:

    @ Valerie – the opposition is certainly ugly and without honour.
    But we can still resist their evil plans so long as we support our friends.
    “Courage, Merry. Courage for our friends” (LOTR):

  61. heedtracker says:

    Golfnut says:
    26 July, 2017 at 10:48 pm
    @ heedtracker

    I do cringe though, proud Scot buts are cringeworthy, tory beeb Scotland led press gimps and that awful union jack, that flaps around and about our heads. Scots history has always been written by Scotch cringers.

  62. Petra says:

    @ Ealasaid says at 7:36 pm …. ”Petra if you are still around. I have left a message for you on O/T.”

    Hi Ealasaid I’ve checked out O/T and don’t see a message. In saying that I’ve never ventured on there before (sadly don’t have the time) so may have strayed onto some unknown site, lol.

  63. Flower of Scotland says:

    See Angela Haggerty is not being very nice on twitter about Stu and Wings.

    What is the matter with the Indy left? Not getting enough attention? Jeez Oh!

  64. Alba woman says:

    An impressive articulate young man. I hope the Lib Dems appreciate his political talent. He would be welcome at the yes movements door.

  65. schrodingers cat says:


    journos being professionally outraged at anything is a means of gaining attention

    having an argument on twitter with stu boosts haggertys profile

    what journos hate most is being ignored

    no news is bad news etc

  66. colin alexander says:


    Good positive reply to my comment.

    Last time we had so many negative stories from the supposedly independent Institute of Fiscal Studies, Adam Smith Institute, Fraser of Allander Institute and as many banks.

    Many of these were involved in corruption scandals; guilty of greed and sheer incompetence, in Scotland, rUK and also around the world, pumping out negative stories about independence.

    People who look deeper into what these organisations are about, see few, if any, are independent and have in many cases neo-liberal ideologies or close links with those who do.

    The mainstream media don’t ask if the organisations economic predictions about an indy Scotland are in any way biased – if they know there is bias – they certainly won’t report it.

    If the organisation is known to be be involved in corruption they don’t report that when reporting the negative economic story about indy Scotland.

    All we get is the negative headline and the negative assertion against indy.

    So, I totally agree, the YES campaign MUST get highly respected economic experts onboard BEFORE any YES campaign to assess Brexit devo-Scotland with Indy Scotland and different scenarios for in or out the EU or Single Market.

    They must have a credible currency / economic policy scrutinised and critiqued by the best in the business.

    The YES campaign must have reports on all the major banks and economic think tanks and they must have a way of publicising who these organisations are and their real agenda in producing their reports – especially if they are negative or positive to the YES campaign.

    For example, the often quoted Fraser of Allander Institutes’ policy director is the husband of Wendy Alexander of the infamous property developer donation scandal when she ran for SLab leadership. It is often regarded as neo-liberal ( like Tony Blair’s politics / economics).

    Okay Red Tory economics, to put it bluntly.

    Last time each day of the campaign had a new scare story from some banking group or think tank etc. It will happen again.

    YES was too naive. Too nice. We must be prepared with facts to discredit deliberately biased organisations and their biased reports. And reveal the agenda / background of biased people too, with facts, not personally abusive rants.

  67. Flower of Scotland says:

    @schrodingers cat

    Yeah, I know it’s the silly season! But…….

  68. colin alexander says:



    25 out of 26 figures in GERS are estimates according to Richard Murphy.

    He used the acronym CRAP to describe them: Completely Rubbish APproximations

    I think the SNP/ Scot Govt have been foolish to quote them, even when they appeared to be positive. It gave GERS a credibility it has never deserved.

    They should be rubbishing as unreliable at every opportunity – even if they appear positive.

  69. Still Positive says:

    What an articulate and pragmatic young man. Welcome, Chris and thank you for joining us.

    I hope you can persuade your party leader to pursue your ideas.

  70. Az says:

    Huh? What is going on?

  71. Cactus says:

    Mornin’ Az ~

    Scottish citizens who previously didn’t want Scotland to be a normal independent European country, are now deciding that they do.

    Let’s start talking about the ‘Magic of Independence!’

    There’s no two-ways about it.
    Voters have to make that choice at our next HOME referendum.

    More and more people are now journeying to Yes.

    Have an excellent day Scotland.

  72. Golfnut says:

    @ heedtracker
    Morning heedtracker, ‘ Scots history is written by by Scots cringes ‘ , we will need to make sure that changes then.

  73. Ken500 says:

    Why does it take 3 to 6 months for Blair’s ‘London’ Court to make a decision on minimum pricing? This is just another affront to people in Scotland’s human rights. Not being treated equally.

    Blair’s 24 hour drinking culture caused the problems. Blair should be in jail. Aidan Mole should be ashamed of denying people in Scotland’s equal human rights and supporting tax evasion by Whisky companies in Scotland. They pay no taxes on vast profits made with Scottish resources. Breaking EU Law.

  74. Ken500 says:

    The Tories commissioning a Report on EU immigration. Stable and door come to mind. Why do people vote for these people?

  75. Effijy says:

    Just watched BBC Morning propaganda/news.

    Topic covered was number of women on low incomes who could not afford sanitary products.

    Very proud of my country to hear that Scotland is working toward free products for these people and possibly free supply at schools and colleges.

    The RBC then interview a Labour MSP to discuss how “She”
    is rolling this out in Scotland???

    Are you sick of hearing how great Britain is and how we are one of the worlds major economies while we have 4 Million Kids living in poverty, we cannot afford to fund the NHS properly, we have young women locked in at home because its their period?

    Give me a poorer country any day if it has its priorities in the right place and an ounce of care for the welfare of its people.

  76. heedtracker says:

    Give me a poorer country any day if it has its priorities in the right place and an ounce of care for the welfare of its people.

    If Brexit takes anything like its natural economic course, we’re going to get one.

    BBC r4 Today tory gimps currently explaining how Prince Whatisface will save us though, from his chopper.

  77. Nana says:

    Supreme Court rules Tory tribunal fees are unlawful in humiliating blow to Government

    UK Officials Have Privately Told Senior Bankers The Brexit Divorce Bill Will Be Close To £50 Billion

  78. Ken500 says:

    Don’t encourage them. Stop watching the BBC propaganda. Get rid of SKy. There are many other outlets for ‘news’ etc. A lot more dignified.

  79. Valerie says:

    I find it astounding the number of self important arseholes on Revs timeline, telling him what to do in HIS defamation case.

    He has responded umpteen times – you can do that when she defames you.

    What makes these idiots think their opinion on what he should do matters? It’s such arrogance when these strangers are foisting their unsolicited advice on him.

    I know it’s Twitter, and full of idiots, but this is a professional issue for him. I would never dare do that.

  80. colin alexander says:


    Opinion is divided on whether people think tommy Sheridan was guilty of perjury or not. That is not a judgement but a fact about people.

    My comment is not about that.

    I think opinion is close to 100% that the Establishment went out of their way to nail TS. Because of what he and the SSP stood for.

    And it was THE SCOTTISH ESTABLISHMENT that nailed him.

    Thanks to Tommy and the SSP they were pointing out that Holyrood was a gravy train with overgenerous housing perks etc.

    Showing that Scotland’s political class, including the SNP, were basically being bought off by devolution, that they could milk the system for as long as they liked, as long as they played along and didn’t rock the Establishment boat.

    They were beginning to be a real threat by giving working class people a real voice in how Scotland was being run. Something the SNP have never aspired to.

    They were pointing out Scotland / UK is run to suit the wealthy, not help the poorest achieve. From the Queen downwards, including politicians, it’s a gravy train and the working class and poor are an afterthought.

    They were getting working class people interested in politics and starting to make ordinary people believe they could radically change Scotland at Holyrood, so it’s not just run to suit the political / business class.

    The only way the SNP has done that is by motivating people in the housing schemes to vote for independence in 2014 and they then kicked out the Red Tories in 2015.

    As long as the Establishment can stop the SNP achieving indy the status quo is maintained. With their middling policies, they don’t perceive the SNP as any threat to the ruling order within the devolution setup. Aye they put some SLab and Tories and LibDems out of work and for that they are hated by them, but that’s about it.

    The SNP wanted indy Scotland ruled by the Queen and Bank of England. How radical is that? Alex Salmond wanted Scotland to be in thrall to the banking Establishment. Is that any different from Gordon Brown in that respect?

    I’m not having a go at Alex Salmond or the SNP. I’m stating facts. The only radical thing about the SNP is independence.

    As I’ve pointed out, certain SNP MSPs, such as Joan McAlpine, are in bed with the leaders of the anti-independence Establishment – because it pays well. £20,000 a year. Independence is not supposed to be just another policy like 2p on the price of a packet of fags. It’s supposed to be a great cause: a liberation movement.

    The SSP and TS were perceived as having a cause that could threaten the Establishment, so they were targetted. The head was cut off to kill the “monster”.

    Tommy and the SSP were the people that said No to the Poll Tax and warrant sales. They used popular sovereignty to defy a corrupt WM Parliament and the law that serves that corruption. Power to the people, not power to the politicians and political and legal Establishment that went along with it. That meant Scotland’s Establishment made them Public Enemy Number 1.

    Credit to the SNP under Nicola Sturgeon, she refused to go along with Labour and the Establishment in continuing the Poll Tax saga.

    Nicola to her credit talks of popular sovereignty. The sovereignty of the people. When do they get to exercise that popular sovereignty under the SNP? Only at an indyref. That’s happened once in 10 years. It remains to be seen if it will happen again.

    I recognise the SNP are much better than Labour or the Tories. They have done some reforms, but few or any could be called radical. Radical reforms when proposed become insipid. Land reform could have been a major reform, but the Scot Govt final plans have achieved little if anything so far.

    A party that has turned into: Keep Scotland strong at Westminster. Fight to keep Scotland in an EU that pays fat cat Tory MSPs gravy train carriages of cash, cos they are rich and own lots of land. So they are deserving of lots more according to the EU.

    And people blame the rain for many of the working class for not bothering to vote SNP at the GE? I did vote SNP at the GE, just to keep Labour out. I didn’t vote to Keep Scotland Strong at Westminster. I didn’t vote for something that has never happened and never will.

  81. @Ken500

    The Scotch Whisky Association which is blocking `minimum pricing`on drinks is just another turd in the sewer that is the UK establishment,

    the biggest members of The Scotch Whisky Association are Diageo and Chivas Bros (part of Pernod Ricard portfolio),

    outside of Scottish whisky these companies own some of the worlds biggest names in the alcohol business

    Diageo (Guinness,Smirnoff) Pernod Ricard (Absolut,Olmeca Tequila,Jacob’s Creek)

    these worldwide multi billion dollar businesses are the real power behind the Scotch Whisky Association trying to block `minimum pricing` legislation.

  82. Macart says:

    Mornin’ Nana.

    A fair old menu as usual. 🙂

  83. John H. says:

    Sorry to be so o/t.
    I don’t know if this has already been mentioned but it will concern many of us here. I heard on the radio this morning that London government are expected to start taxing diesel cars more, beginning this year. Since everyone I know, in fact most people I think, have diesel vehicles, then this will amount to a lot of cash.

    Of course most delivery vehicles and buses are diesel powered, so we’ll have higher fares and food prices, and all goods will rise in price because of this too. All on top of the Brexit disaster which will make us all poorer anyway.

    We have hot spots of high pollution around Scotland of course, but this is mainly London driven, where they are choking to death on fumes and greed. So when you’re out shopping this morning don’t forget to buy a new electric powered car. That’s what’s expected of you when we have a right wing, millionaire government.

  84. Nana says:

    Howdy Macart, just a few to see you through a cuppa or two!

  85. Robert Peffers says:

    A news report today states that, Johnston Press has announced plans to cut a, “significant number of journalists”, from its Scottish weekly titles.

    They blame the audience migrating to digital platforms and, “Industrial Giants”, like Google and Facebook changing the way people are getting their news.

    Never seems to have enter their minds that the content of the news, and more significantly, their political and anti-Scottish propaganda they presently offer their remaining readership may be a significant factor in driving people to on-line sources.

  86. colin alexander says:

    P.S. Tommy Sheridan advises people to vote SNP in constituency votes. I would agree with that.

    The SNP are currently the best chance of indy. Indy is currently the best chance of radical reform.

    So it makes sense to back the SNP, for now.

  87. colin alexander says:

    @Scott Finlayson

    In 2015 Scotland had 102 whisky distilleries: just 29 were controlled by Scottish firms.

    Of the rest of the whisky industry infrastructure such as bonded warehouses, bottling plants etc, how many of them are Scottish owned?

  88. Lenny Hartley says:

    According to Manx Radio Amber Rudd has commissioned a report into the effect leaving the Single Market will have on jobs. Good forward thinking bybthe Tories? Or they thinking about a massive U Turn?

  89. colin alexander says:

    For those who think voting so-called Scottish Labour is a vote for Mr Corbyn’s ideas of how Labour should be, think again:

    Red Tory Ian Murray MP, a self-confessed opponent of Mr Corbyn, has won the Chairmanship of the Scottish Parliamentary Labour Party thanks to the help of the Red Tory peers in the House of Lords.

  90. Capella says:

    O/T – China’s cutest peacemakers on BBC video. You will be amazed to hear that there are no pandas in Scotland. 1 min 50 secs

  91. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thanks for the links, Nana.

    Yon Jo Swinson is quite shameless, isn’t she?

    Hope the voters of East Dunbartonshire are happy (and keeping an eye on her expenses).

  92. Fred says:

    Indeed Tinto! Kirky was always a bit strange but voting for Swinson takes the biscuit. She’s a charlatan.

  93. Nana says:

    @Tinto Chiel
    Indeed. Well with two faces like hers, I guess a lot of make up is needed.

    Cheers everyone, brexit will soon make us all wish we were permanently drunk. Fill your cellar!

  94. Nana says:


    Clearing out emails and found this one re data collection by J.J Patrick. He has experience of data collection and how it can be used for good and bad.

    I believe he was going to look into how we are being bombarded with negative tweets and facebook posts. Will be interested to see what he finds.

  95. Cirsium says:

    Thanks for the interesting links, Nana

  96. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Sinky says at 10.39

    “Good article by Lesley Riddoch in to-day’s National”
    It is indeed. We must get onto campaigning for independence ON A CONTINUOUS BASIS.

  97. Dr Jim says:

    The state of the Nation:

    Recent reports and facts have shown that the SNP WON the General election in Scotland and that Nicola Sturgeon IS the First Minister contrary to reports of the opposite and portents of doom from all right wing Toadying “journalists” and commentators

    Opposition critics are now calling for a new policy from their leader that doesn’t include the words NO SURRENDER but so far Ms Davidson has failed to reply to this call until she has consulted with her junior leaders Dugdale and Rennie to be held behind the bike sheds before the next FMQs in Holyrood

    This week saw the Independence movement swing into action with calls for Unity of purpose throughout the various YES campaigners and many prominent speakers within these movements were out in force all over Scotland taking the message to the village halls and towns

    As we’re in the middle of the silly season where Trolls and stupid “journalists” make up nonsense in the hope of selling it as fact attention should be drawn to this by those of us with slightly more than half a brain but not so much that we have to actually engage in conversation with the folk who perpetrate this nonsense, after all we can take our kids to the Zoo for that

    So contrary to what you’re told on the Jackie Bird show or the John McKay show and all of the “Scottish?” media don’t worry be happy we’re winning
    Oh, and remember when Unionists say Polls indicate, poke them in the eye with your finger or pen or pencil fall down and claim they assaulted you, it does work, they do it all the time, but do remember to call them an ambulance we believe they don’t like that when they arrive on time

  98. Capella says:

    @ Nana – great links thx. The 95 site is v interesting. For one example of many – this tweet about how well Finland is doing in education.
    Graduatuion rate 93% with
    Start school at 7.
    No primary school tests.
    No homework at primary school.

    Now off to read about Big Data – scary.

  99. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Can’t see it @Lenny Hartley says at 10:17 am

    “According to Manx Radio Amber Rudd has commissioned a report into the effect leaving the Single Market will have on jobs. Good forward thinking bybthe Tories? Or they thinking about a massive U Turn?”

    For the Tories, they are now caught in a trap of their own making.

    Destroy their Party in highly public Labour Styli infighting


    Destroy the economy of the UK for decades to come

    That’s where they are.

    Now ask yourself this “If you were a self serving, millionaire, career Politician, what would you do?”


  100. Nana says:

    You’re welcome, here’s a few more you might like


    That’s the thing with links, they can divert you to other stuff. Easy to lose time checking them all out. I liked the solar panels on trains one and last week there was a link to panels being used on pavements, can’t recall where but I thought Indy Scotland could do all that and much more.

  101. Dr Jim says:

    Today in a report by the Auditor General Scotland NHS is shown to be once again not only the best in the UK but the best by a considerable margin in every single area, and fully staffed too….BUT.. in the future something bad might happen, maybe if well who knows, and it would be bad, so grim reading there eh

    Which is exactly the very thing that makes our Scottish media happy a non existent threat that may or may not happen if the SNP do or don’t do something to avert this dire warning of well nothing at all

    All reported in warningful meaningful tones for the hard of understanding to absorb the fact that the BBC once again talks Shite

    But it’s meaningful Shite

  102. Robert Graham says:

    O/t – As usual BBC website heading up with another SNP failing catastrophe and imminent disaster in the Scottish health service in their supposedly shortsighted approach to recruitment,
    This when the NHS south of the border is going into meltdown real meltdown, not the perceived doom and gloom that was probably put forward by the Tory press office as usual.
    Oh dear Unionists in Aberdeen council being reminded that some of their shenanigans might be making them personally responsible for some of their recent activities regarding their use of taxpayers funds, and their use of these in stock exchange speculation , When a council starts getting involved in monetary matters wholly out with the responsibility and remit of a local council , I believe it’s time for Hollyrood to get involved, bring this errant Council into line and under special measures to prevent a rerun of the Orkney Council debacle in the bank of credit and commerce BCCI collapse , Council leaders should be reminded that they are not running mini empires, but attending to bin collection, street lights, etc, other words the bloody day job they there to do, it’s all these people are capable of mostly , anything else is gambling with our money, not their money, OURS .
    Time to bring all these Councils under control before they start causing damage, real damage .

  103. call me dave says:

    @Dr Jim

    You are right there! 🙂

    But,but wait… ‘Nasty SNP forces the NHS to use skeleton staff’ shrieks the shroud waving Express cause I read it on a left behind one in the cafe.

    Annie Wells tory woman also says so on radio shortbread this morning and SNP very bad.

    Suddenly cod is cool and beef is best again for Scotland what a coincidence. Is there a Brexit going on?

  104. Nana says:

    Re the latest NHS bulletins from the unionist media.

    Friend is a radiographer in a hospital, says colleagues are sick and tired of attacks by labour, tory and lib dems.
    Another friend’s daughter is a nurse and she says the same, calls it an insult. They know the hospital board is stuffed with ex councillors.

    Seems Mr Malky might know of somein other hospitals

    The SNP do not run NHS Scotland
    14 different Health Boards do
    Boards stuffed with Labour Councillors and Ex MPs like Anne Begg

  105. HandandShrimp says:

    The UK Government say that free movement will end March 19 and today we have the Tories and Labour having a wee whine and a moan that in the future the SNHS might struggle to recruit.

    Who supports full exit from the single market I wonder?

    I have no time for these hypocritical buffoons.

  106. Stephen Gebbie says:

    Independence is a Must for ALL!!!!!! 🙂

  107. stewartb says:

    Having just returned from the newsagent where I too couldn’t miss the screaming headlines on the chaos in NHS Scotland and extreme ‘SNPbad’, I have just skimmed through the Auditor General’s report on the NHS Scotland workforce.

    If ever there was a situation calling out for a proactive, robust rebuttal unit within the SNP or SG to counter the media’s selective reporting this is it – and not just ‘rebuttal’ but, importantly, a major and immediate effort to re-frame the information on what is being reported to bring focus on the many positive findings.

    Too late to influence today’s newspapers but not yet too late for tonight’s BBC Scotland and STV news programmes. I am no expert – and I accept this must be a very difficult task in the face of media hostility – but is it too much to expect to see more evidence of different, innovative approaches from the SG/SNP in addressing this recurring communication challenge? Any media/comms experts around here who can offer a view?

    (And recall, the SG/SNP will have known in advance about this report and could have anticipated the media’s reaction and selective reporting.)

  108. Nana says:


    Early talks on post-Brexit trade deal ‘increasingly unlikely’

    Amber Rudd: A post-Brexit immigration system that works for all

    So not waiting for the report

    Home Sec in Scotland today – says post-Brexit immigration policy will be evidence based, but no evidence Scotland needs diffrnt arrangements

  109. Robert Graham says:

    Nana – thanks for the link and info re- health boards, I was aware of the impediment that Councils posed to Education and the aims of the government to bypass this blockage have been or have been started by John Swinney .
    Maybe it’s time to have a close look at the deep set influence of Unionist activities in local government,Who are actively working against the freely elected government , how deep does this get, these councils are required to carry out instructions from our parliament, it appears that is the last thing on their agenda, it’s not the Tory government that are the problem it’s our own people working tirelessly to undermine our government , and looking for a pat on the head for their work, and in the faint hope that this will cripple the SNP or at least grind meaningful progress to a standstill. Aye Labour in Scotland it runs deep, all those years when they weighed the votes have set in place a real deep ingrained problem that has to be addressed, I hope someone is actively working on measures to eradicate our bypass these problems, that are starting to emerge from these proud Scots .

  110. colin alexander says:

    @John H.

    I’ve said it myself: Help ma boab! The price of oil is going doon.
    I’m a child of the 20th Century. Sometimes it shows in old-fashioned thinking.

    This is the 21st Century. Electricity generated from renewables is the 21st Century way.

    Scotland could be for renewables what Saudi Arabia is for oil.

    Wind power, wave power, tidal power, river / loch power.

    Scotland has it all in abundance.

    To generate electricity.

    As the technology continues to advance, oil / petrol / diesel will be like the steam engines of the past.

    Technology of a bygone era.

    So, for those who believe WM will want rid of Scotland when the oil runs out. Oh no they won’t. For as long as the tides turn and the wind blows Scotland will be energy rich.

  111. Brian Powell says:


    So Mundy runs Scotland? I suppose, ‘what a blubber mouthed little turd he is’, best describes my reaction.

    Though what is worse is the lack of reaction from those who claim to be part of the Scottish political scene: Labour and the LibDems, and the media.

  112. Les Wilson says:

    Here is another link that states Aberdeen AND Edinburgh will be hammered in Brexit. Never mind what UKOK propaganda says, this is going to be a mess, and we are going to be done over.
    There remains only one way out for us.

    Here is the article anyway, somber reading. Long link!

  113. scottieDog says:

    Good article from richard murphy linking to a piece on the guardian.
    I was mentioning this the other day on wings.
    We need to be speaking to the economists who haven’t been swallowed up by the neoliberal profession.

  114. TheWasp says:

    I’ve just been onto the SNP website and left a message demanding a forceful spokesperson be put up for STV news and misreporting scotlandshire to debunk these Scottish health service omnishambles reports. I told them to stop playing so nice as well, and if nothing comes of my message, they will be getting a whole lot more, and my MSP will be seeing me too

  115. Robert Peffers says:

    @stewartb says: 27 July, 2017 at 1:47 pm:

    ” … If ever there was a situation calling out for a proactive, robust rebuttal unit within the SNP or SG to counter the media’s selective reporting this is it …

    As a matter of actual fact I have, over a very long time frame, pointed out on Wings, the simple truth that the SNP do NOT run the Scottish NHS, or indeed Scottish Education, among several other things the anti-Scottish MSM and broadcasters have always screamed about at the top of their voices.

    Local councils, Local Hospital Boards, Local Health Boards are all stuffed full of mainly unionist Local Councillors and they run these local matters – all directed by the COSLA.

    “Scottish local government provides many of society’s most valued services. … Scottish councils co-operate through, and are represented collectively by COSLA.”

    I have also often pointed out that the SG/SNP have NOT a hope in hell of operating any kind of rebuttal unit for a rebuttal unit requires that the rebuttals are made via the anti-Scottish MSM & Broadcasters who are all under the control of the Westminster Establishment.

    All a rebuttal unit can do is totally waste their time seeking out things to rebut, waste more time writing things to rebut, and thus duplicating the press releases the SG/SNP already draw up and send to the anti-Scottish MSM and Westminster controlled and owned broadcasters to rebut what they have already lied about, then sending those Press Releases out, probably a bit later that those the SG/SNP has already sent Press releases out to rebut the lies.

    Want to know what will happen to the Rebuttal Unit press releases, stewartb?

    I’ll tell you anyway.

    They will cause the anti-Scottish MSM & state controlled Westminster Establishment broadcasters desk-side waste bins to overflow.

    The main result of these overflowing waste paper bins will be to increase the workload of the already overworked combined office-boy/girl/tea-lady/tea-bloke. It will also be reflected in the council tax funded bin lorry staff and increase the profits of the private owned company recycling the media people’s waste paper.

    Not one extra word of the rebuttals will ever be printed or broadcast to the lied to and brainwashed electorate who probably would have never bothered reading, watching or listening to the rebuttals anyway.

    That’s because they already mostly believe the way things were was good enough for their faithers and their faithers faithers afore them.

    Am I wrong?

  116. call me dave says:


    Ruth Davidson is getting promoted on Sky Sports tv at the Scottish Ladies open golf as part of a guest appearance discussion for more women in sport.

    I was watching via ‘’ switched to the Seniors Open pronto, now down in Wales. 🙂


    Mentioning Wales I see in ‘The National’ that the proposed Edward 1st Iron Ring (yesterday) now put on pause by Welsh Gov. 🙂

    Wonder why.

  117. Proud Cybernat says:

    The S-NHS is the best performing health service in the UK. The colonial print and broadcast media know that but to hell with that – it’s all about damaging the SNP with spin and lies. The S-NHS is crap they scream across their media failing, of course, to mention how Scotland’s budget has been cut in real terms year after year by London Tories, these cuts aided and abetted by austerity-supporting Labour.

    No – you NEVER hear any of that in their media but you hear plenty of it in the Social Media. (They so must hate Tim Berners-Les).

    Post-Brexit WM will be gunning big time for Holyrood, undermining it in every way it can, essentially rendering powerless. And then, of course, will come the trade deal with Trump’s America. And then watch as your S-NHS is sold of to them.

    Only ONE WAY to avoid this folks. You know what you have to do in IndyRef2.

  118. Col says:

    If as you mention Robert that the Scottish government would be wasting their time with trying to rebut the nonsense that the likes of the BBC are filling the general population’s heads with would it not warrant a completely different approach?
    With less than half of the population of Scotland approving of the service that the BBC in Scotland provides would it not be a duty of them to actually take on the BBC head on?
    Use the powers at their disposal before the BBC aids in their removal from them. Shame the bastards, show how we have been colonised and refused the right to even watch what we wish to watch on tv. We are treated like bothersome children by Westminster, let’s cause them some bother to really worry about.

  119. Fred says:

    Anent, the Welsh Iron Ring, mebbes Berwick could have a tasteful “Fountain of Blood!” installed to commemorate Edward I & his massacre of the innocent townsfolk!

  120. Proud Cybernat says:

    I suspect Mr Peffers is right in his view that there is little point in the SNP forming a rebuttal unit to counter colonial media spin and lies as they simply will never publicise the rebuttals or, if they do, it will be so heavily edited it the rebuttal itself will be turned into another SNP Bad piece of propaganda.

    What we must do, imo, is to simply ridicule and stigmatise the BBC in every conversation we have, EMBARRASS people into NOT tuning in to its output. Some examples:

    “Seriously? You still watch numpty-telly?”

    Numpty-telly. That’s exactly what watching the BBC amounts to and that is what we call it from now on. And we have to drive that pejorative appellation home. BBC = Numpty-Telly. We have to EMBARRASS people away from watching/listening to its propaganda. And if we can do that then we will have blunted one of the biggest obstacles the BritNats use against us.

    That’s what we do – turn the term ‘BBC’ into a BAD WORD in Scotland, a place where only idiots go or give any attention to. BBC is for idiots.

    #Numpty-telly. Get to it.

  121. Proud Cybernat says:

    BBC = NumptyVision. For those who prefer propaganda to real news.

    Spread the word folks.


  122. geeo says:

    The uk media in a nutshell.

    RT discussing how the EU are discussing putting trade counter sanctions against America as a result of the proposed U.S. sanctions on Russia, despite those sanctions potentially having a severe negative effect on EU fuel security (in regards to the new pipeline being built from Russia to EU).

    Also explaining how U.S. sanctions are a complete failure, North Korea economy (according to S.Korea analysts) is growing at a phenomonal rate, especially exports to china, and how Iran’s economy is also very strong due to oil exports not covered by U.S. led sanctions.

    Sky News, meanwhile, is having a debate on is it ok to tell boys to “man up” with a shouty, whiny head teacher who clearly has issues.

  123. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Anent, the Welsh Iron Ring, mebbes Berwick could have a tasteful “Fountain of Blood!” installed to commemorate Edward I & his massacre of the innocent townsfolk!”

    Jings, Fred, don’t give the Yoons any ideas, they’d probably celebrate this event!

    Capella, re the excellent Finnish education statistics: I think they abolished their Inspectorate in the 70. The latter and the SQA have done a lot of damage to our system. Unfortunately, Scottish Governments seem to listen to them.

    The Curriculum for Excellence badly needs reform but there are too many vested interests unwilling to accept its weaknesses. The pupils who experience it and the teachers who have to implement it should be listened to more.

  124. auld highlander says:

    The only way to get the truth out about bbc numpty vision and their lies and that’s to expose them with hard hitting facts by way of tens of thousands of leaflets stuffed under car wiper and through letter boxes and thrust into hands in every town and city centre and village across our land.

    A maximum effort and a huge number of willing yessers required plus somebody who can get the facts down on paper as hard hitting as possible.

    We just cannot sit back and let them continue churning out their crap, they have got to be exposed.

    Am awa tae listen to some Clanadonia.

  125. TheWasp says:

    A rebuttal unit, not necessary, put up someone who isn’t feart of union Jackie and just merry band and has all the REAL facts at their fingertips. The Scottish government should be the go to source for every news story concerning Scotland, but aren’t, as shown last night by the featuring of SNPbad Jamie Greene last night to give the view of the Everyman.

    If a story is all over the press and if it’s against the Scottish government, and will definitely be shouted out on the teatime news, the government put someone forward to clarify the situation, and not in a prerecorded interview which will be edited to suit the MSM agenda. If this scenario is refused, then hammer it home on social media. Seems simple to me, but maybe because if someone says or does something wrong, I’ll just tell them straight and no hanging back.

  126. Robert Peffers says:

    @TheWasp says: 27 July, 2017 at 3:06 pm:

    “I’ve just been onto the SNP website and left a message demanding a forceful spokesperson be put up for STV news and misreporting scotlandshire to debunk these Scottish health service omnishambles reports. I told them to stop playing so nice as well, and if nothing comes of my message, they will be getting a whole lot more, and my MSP will be seeing me too.

    You’re, demanding?


    What bloody parallel Universe are you from, TheWasp?

    Let’s examine the real facts shall we?

    STV is a privately owned company.

    They are thus not answerable to either the Scottish Government nor directly answerable to their Scottish viewers.

    They, the STV company, thus totally control the contents of their productions or productions the buy in or lease from others. Subject only to public indecency such as sexually explicit, racist or other unlawful content.

    Their paymasters are only their own shareholders and those advertisers who pay for their advertisements that STV choose to show.

    They are also, to a very limited extent, also subject to United Kingdom Government licencing rules.

    These rules have written into them the legal requirement to broadcast news, weather and other public broadcasts and notices.

    They thus have no legal need to broadcast anything they do not want to show. The public’s only control over STV is by viewing figures going up or down. And that only because their advertisers will withdraw ads that do not result in an increase in sales.

    So STV can invite who the hell they please to appear in their programmes and they can choose whatever they like as their programmes.

    The only exceptions being, for example, Party Political Broadcasts as stipulated in their licence to broadcast along with Gale Warnings and other such like public service content.

    Yet here you are blaming the SNP, (who at present are also the SG), but who may, or may not be the political party that provides your present MSP.
    Neither the SNP or the Scottish Government has any control over whatever STV chooses to broadcast or not to broadcast. For starters Broadcasting is a reserved matter to Westminster.

    Still, let’s not let legal matters or truth get in the way of an good old fashioned SNPBAAAD rant.

  127. Cirsium says:

    @scottie Dog, 2.49

    Seconded. I would nominate Professor Michael Hudson and Professor Stephanie Kenton.

  128. Cirsium says:

    correction- Professor Stephanie Kelton.

  129. TheWasp says:

    Where is my post an anti SNP rant? I’m an SNP member, I’m not happy with how things are being done, I want them to take the bull by the horns and say what is really going on and stop fannying about where the Media are concerned. My MSP is Keith Brown, and he did an excellent job of dealing with Gordon Brewer the other week, and it’s more of that we are needing.

  130. Robert Peffers says:

    @Col says: 27 July, 2017 at 3:24 pm:

    ” … With less than half of the population of Scotland approving of the service that the BBC in Scotland provides would it not be a duty of them to actually take on the BBC head on?”

    On what statistics do you base the claim that, ” … less than half of the population of Scotland approving of the service that the BBC in Scotland provides.” Col?

    Furthermore, on what information do you base the claim they, “Use the powers at their disposal before the BBC aids in their removal from them?”

    What are these powers you speak of?

    “… Shame the bastards, show how we have been colonised and refused the right to even watch what we wish to watch on tv. We are treated like bothersome children by Westminster, let’s cause them some bother to really worry about.”

    Which is exactly much of what the Rev Stu Campbell does so effectively and has much better readership figures than most Scottish dead tree press publications.

    Problem is that broadcasting and control of the media are not within any of the powers of either the SNP or the SG to enforce.

    To put that another way – the BBC is a directly Westminster Establishment funded and controlled body. The commercial broadcasters and the dead tree press are all owned by the same, over rich, neo-liberals clique that ultimately also hold control over the Westminster Unionist parties and who fund the Unionist parties.

  131. Robert Graham says:

    robert peffers – gonna no dae that , stop trying to cheer us up by pointing oot the bleedn obvious, and the limitations placed on the SNPs access to a hostile media , they have no obligation to present a SNP message as has been previously pointed out ,we get it .
    However it has become clear most folk are sick to the back teeth of this constant one sided drivel from the Scottish media , and the inability of our representatives to make the point in live broadcasts, This is i believe what some people are annoyed at , some of the SNPs spokespeople have been frankly woeful , ill-prepared , and unable to get a simple message across, in short amateurish , countless folk on here have pointed out this need for quality media training not as a stick to beat the SNP but as an observed weakness in the presentation .
    Tommy Sheridan like him or hate him he can present a quick rebuttal to every hostile question , sharp as a tack ,they need to learn from his style , or they will get walked over .

  132. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    My response would be derision – the most powerful political tool. For instance – “FREE COPY OF THE DAILY EXPRESS FOR EVERY BEANO YOU BUY”

  133. TheWasp says:

    Robert Graham @ 5.50

    Exactly, totally agree with you

  134. Robert Peffers says:

    @TheWasp says: 27 July, 2017 at 5:17 pm:

    “Where is my post an anti SNP rant? I’m an SNP member, I’m not happy with how things are being done, I want them to take the bull by the horns and say what is really going on and stop fannying about where the Media are concerned. My MSP is Keith Brown, and he did an excellent job of dealing with Gordon Brewer the other week, and it’s more of that we are needing.”

    I already answered your post, TheWasp. No doubt you won’t like it but, tough.

    If you are an SNP member, and I’ve no reason to doubt you are a member, then go about matters like an SNP member should.

    Get yourself over to your local branch meeting and make your mouth go there. Do not do so on an open forum as the Yoons just love it when they see dissention and Wings has more than its fair share of covert Yoons passing themselves off as indy supporters.

    When/if you do go to your local branch there may be people there who will either correct notions about your quite obvious well meant concerns. The may tell you almost exactly what I have told you.

    However, they may not be so well informed of the actual difficulties. So here’s a couple of hints for you. Go along with another member who supports your views. That person can second whatever it is you propose. Better still put it in writing, and have your seconder second it, and send it to the Branch Secretary.

    Otherwise, when the formal Branch Meeting is drawing to a close the Chairperson will call for either, AOB, (Any other Business), or AOCB, (Any Other Competent Business), and hit them with your proposal. Have your seconder second it.

    Now you have made a formal request for the branch to consider your, “Other Business”.

    However, I caution you to think long and hard about whatever it is you wish to have considered for it is most likely that the party has already considered it somewhere along the line.

  135. Famous15 says:

    The SNP cannot be tougher with the media because they would be labelled fascist HOWEVER even my thickest Unionist acquaintances are now having a dawning awareness that they are being taken for fools with all the media SNP baaad lies.

    Re Brexit could I paraphrase what I just heard on BBC News re Eastern Europeans taking jobs Brits do not want. “In time Brits wall take these jobs post Brexit as they become as poor as the Eastern Europeans currently are”

    Those the gods would destroy they first make mad.

  136. TheWasp says:

    That’s me telt for wanting a bit of savvy, a bit of balls and a bit of action from my party. Constantly attacked, hey but let’s not upset anybody or they will call us nasty nats, or natzsis or cybernats…… Oh wait, they already do that

  137. Rock says:

    For the information of new posters, Robert Peffers is an aggressive verbal bully here.

    Don’t be afraid of him, take him “by the horns”.

    Truth Always.

  138. manandboy says:

    Robert Graham says:
    “Tommy Sheridan like him or hate him he can present a quick rebuttal to every hostile question , sharp as a tack ,they need to learn from his style, or they will get walked over .”

    Oh to have Tommy Sheridan back again, SNP or grassroots, it widnae bother me if he was the spokesperson for Independence on the telly. There’s nobody to beat him. Much as I like Jeanne Freeman.

  139. Proud Cybernat says:

    What Robert Graham said (5:50pm).

    Oh and dinnae forget:

    #BBCNumptyVision (aka the Bunny Boiler Channel). Get it out there. Let’s get people embarassed to admit they watch BBCNumptyVision. If they feel embarassed watching then, eventually, they’ll just stop watching it. No one likes to be seen as a numpty especially not by family, friends, peer group.

    I mean – just imagine admitting to watching BBCNumptyVision. What a total beamer!!

  140. Iron Man says:

    O/T. Did I just hear on the news that the SFA have been fined £4000 by UEFA for Scotland fans booing the ENGLISH national anthem, God Save the Queen. Tell them to bugger aff, it’s not their national anthem so we didnae boo theirs. Rant over.

  141. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert Graham says: 27 July, 2017 at 5:50 pm:

    “robert peffers – gonna no dae that , stop trying to cheer us up by pointing oot the bleedn obvious, and the limitations placed on the SNPs access to a hostile media , they have no obligation to present a SNP message as has been previously pointed out ,we get it.”

    Obviously what you do not get is that dripping constantly on Wings, or any other open forum, is doing the YoonYoonist propaganda for them. They just love it when they see dissention and there are more than enough covert Yoons on Wings masquerading as indy supporters and some of them are not so obvious as others.

    “However it has become clear most folk are sick to the back teeth of this constant one sided drivel from the Scottish media , and the inability of our representatives to make the point in live broadcasts”

    What is also quite clear is that these people haven’t a clue what is really happening on these TV and radio shows. It doesn’t take much thought to work out that, in the first place, the interviewer is setting the agenda and thus has looked up and prepared themselves with the facts. The Indy supporting interviewee does not have that advantage so cannot prepare themselves.

    Then there is the fact that the interviewer has probably primed any unionist guest beforehand and they also know beforehand what to bone up on.

    Then we get the less obvious ploy. How many times, and I’ve mentioned before, (but may not have explicitly explained it). The studio guest is the unionist and the indy supporter is on a monitor elsewhere so the interviewer has had the chance to tell the unionist not only what the subject matter will be but how to respond. Now here’s another wee clue for you. All so called live broadcasts are NOT live. There is a built in digital delay and the production staff can edit in or out short bits.

    Here’s the clue to look for. I saw two news items on the same newscast. One was The new USA President Trump from the Whitehouse lawn. The other was Alex Salmond from a location outside his northern home or a nearby site.

    Now often there is a delay between the interviewer’s question and the interviewers answers. This is supposedly caused by the remote locations signal travelling to the studio. So can you explain why the signal from Salmond’s constituency takes considerably longer to travel to the studio than the signal from the USA? Unless, of course, the broadcaster has introduced a long delay to enable them to cut out things they do not want to broadcast? Not to mention how the, “breaks”, in the link seen always to affect the indy guys as does there seem to always be more technical interference on indy supporters contributions.

    ” … Tommy Sheridan like him or hate him he can present a quick rebuttal to every hostile question , sharp as a tack ,they need to learn from his style , or they will get walked over.”

    Matter of fact, Robert, there are very, very few people who have the ability to think that way on their feet. Salmond is one, Sturgeon and Sheridan are others but it is really a very rare gift.

    Which is what I’m really getting at in my explanations of how the unionist broadcasters go about their business of putting their master’s preferred views out on the airwaves.

  142. ronnie anderson says:

    The Wasp You aren’t blessed with original thought re SNP spokesperson, this has been voiced on WoS several times , myself broaching the subject a long time since, but as RP says SNP could have a whole team putting out rebuttals 24/7 with overtime added . The Corporate Media wont Broadcast or Print any SNP/SG press releases full stop . Take heed it will only get worse , unless you know different .

  143. Proud Cybernat says:

    On the Bunny Boiler Channel tonight…

  144. Another Union Dividend says:

    O/T Scotland Under 16s football team have just beaten England 2 – 0.

    Well done to SFA for streaming the game live on Youtube.

    A similar result for Aberdeen would be pleasing. Eh Rev?

  145. Robert Peffers says:

    I suppose I’m just wasting my time and I was typing up a few links when the intended post vanished into the ether, but here we go again. Four useful links:-

    There are lots more and the sad thing is even long established Wingers will seldom bother getting the party views on matters. Even if some search engines seem to not carry too many things they should be showing.

  146. heedtracker says:

    Tasty. Murdoch’s goons do get well rewarded. What do gangsters call it?

    You’re on the wrong side if you want to get rich, WoS blogger:D

    Graun. Thursday 27 July 2017 14.43 BST First published on Thursday 27 July 2017 09.50 BST

    The chief executive of Sky, Jeremy Darroch, is cashing in £11.5m in shares, the company announced as it reported a hefty fall in annual profits.

    Darroch and Sky’s finance chief, Andrew Griffith, are to sell a combined 1.9m shares, worth £18.3m at Thursday’s share price of £9.65, which were awarded as part of Sky’s long-term incentive plan. In 2015 and 2016, Darroch’s total remuneration was £17.9m and £4.7m respectively.

    Darroch has also been awarded 600,000 shares under the incentive scheme, worth £5.8m at the current share price. Griffith received 350,000, worth £3.4m. They will vest in July 2019, subject to hitting performance targets.”

  147. Bill McLean says:

    I’d like to be around in 100 years time to see what history makes of the foul British media that assaults democracy and truth on a daily basis. None of us will be but I can imagine that these excuses for journalists will be described as what they are; lying, unprincipled clowns whose devotion to other lying, unprincipled clowns in Westminster defines them. Scotland will be independent and prosper in fairly quick time but we most remove the handicap which holds us back as soon as possible!

  148. heedtracker says:

    Worst crime in the Murdoch goons crime sheet in say last five to ten toryboy years has got to be giving a barking mad fuckwit like Farage and ofcourse his UKIPer freakshow so much airtime, great airtime. Idiots like Teresa and David Cameron ofcourse make all the Murdoch sense going vote tory wise, but Fuhrage?

    Ofcourse tory beeb gimps did the same but its Murdoch’s goons that really make the old skin crawl.

    Sleazebag toryboy wise, its still not that clear why the whole UKOK tory media circus of clowns have done all this, England especially but in their Scotland region too, brain washed us into accepting their tory propaganda, that Farage is not in fact an actual fuckwit City spiv toryboy, the opposite in fact.

    Its probably all just to keep corp UK and ofcourse SKY taxes down, to zero ideally. That top Murdoch goon that run’s SKY dad’s a tax inspector. How’s that for great British irony.

    I like to listen to BBC r4 Today show gimps, merrily fellating toryboy’s like Rees Mogg or that twerp Mike Gove, who would be tarred, feathered and run out of town in more or less civilised times. Nic Robinson especially, he loves to wrap his lips around a toryboy’s…

    of a torboy’s beeb gimp morning.

  149. galamcennalath says:

    Bill McLean says:

    what history makes of the foul British media that assaults democracy and truth on a daily basis.

    I suspect it will be used by academics as a case study in how democracy can fail and a warning from history!

    The media will be seen as negatively influencing public opinion causing disasters like Brexit and spreading racism and xenophobia. The England which emerges from this period could easily end up a sad and broken place.

    Thanks mainly to the media, the United Kingdom no longer exists in any meaningful way. There is an England on the verge of being overwhelmed by nationalism and fascism. And there are the other nations of these islands in various stages of ‘abandoning ship’.

  150. colin alexander says:

    Re the SNP / Scot Govt rebuttals of “SNP bad”.

    The YES campaign couldn’t rebut all the “Indy Bad” stories either.

    Did anyone go on yahoo news just before the indyref vote. Scrolling through the news feed it was dozens of indy is bad, indy is terrible, indy would be a disaster stories.

    Story after story. Not factual, but xxx says. A report from xxx says. It is claimed by xxx. You know the stuff.

    Except the headline presented it as if it were a fact, not an opinion. Stu could have had work for years on those stories alone.

  151. Artyhetty says:

    Arh, Heedtracker, you are on form this evening, fabulous I needed a laugh thanks! Serious but funny, it’s what I love about Scotland.

    Well done, R4 is one rancid toryboy/girl soapbox, I gave it up years ago when Wimmins hour started talking more about making cakes than equality in any way. The Fartchers as well, oh the good ol days! ha ha.

    Britnat bbc soaps, even their non fiction is fiction. No thanks britnat bbc, no thanks.

  152. Iron Man says:

    Me @ 7.05.
    FIFA, not UEFA. Oops. Principles the same though.

  153. Shinty says:

    Heedtracker – that twerp Mike Gove, who would be tarred, feathered and run out of town in more or less civilised times.

    Hope you don’t mind if I borrow that.

  154. heedtracker says:


    Ooh they’re repugnant little tory shits, one and all.

    Nic Robinson in Graun, whining away like, sneaky shits always do,

    “The BBC’s political editor Nick Robinson has compared protests against his coverage of the Scottish independence referendum to the treatment of the media in Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

    Robinson hit out at “intimidation and bullying” of journalists, during an appearance at the Edinburgh international book festival to promote his latest book, Election Diary.”


    Mike Gove’s probably even worse, sneaky shit toryboy wise.

    BBC creeps reportage,

    “I can tell you I’m absolutely not. The one thing I can tell you is there are lots of talented people who could be prime minister after David Cameron but count me out.”


    “I don’t want to do it and there are people who are far better equipped than me to do it. And there are people who have advocated Leave and people who have advocated Remain who are far better than me to do it.”

    and then,

    Oh to be a toryboy.

  155. Meg merrilees says:

    Can’t stand Michael Gove!

    Can I volunteer to provide the feathers?

  156. auld highlander says:

    Every time I see that little shit Gove I think of a chicken with a rifle or Rupert Bear.

  157. John H. says:

    Every time I see Gove I think of the class sneak.

  158. ScotsRenewables says:

    Just got my special Wings badge collection perk from the last fundraiser via those nice people at Ayemail.

    Pure dead brilliant.

  159. Still Positive says:

    Michael Gove has f**ked every single government department he has been in charge of. English education in every area that doesn’t have a Tory MP or council; the English Justice system – look at the reports on prisons in England. Sure there was another but can’t think what it was.

    God knows what he is going to do with the Environment and Green Energy – all subsidies cut, shortage of food, farms going to the wall, green projects cancelled and the world fishing in Scottish waters.

    God help us – we must get out asap.

  160. crazycat says:

    @ Still Positive

    He was Lord Chancellor concurrently with being Secretary of State from Justice, and also something in the Treasury, which I don’t remember being particularly disastrous – maybe I just didn’t attribute failings specifically to him!

  161. heedtracker says:

    colin alexander, where do land, on issues like the staggering toryboy buffoonery that is Mike Gove for example?

    Its interesting how you and your new bestie Rock, never have a bad word to say, red or blue tory wise.

  162. heedtracker says:

    heedtracker says:
    27 July, 2017 at 11:50 pm
    colin alexander, where do YOU land, on issues like the staggering toryboy buffoonery that is Mike Gove for example?

    I mean.

  163. North Chiel says:

    Totally ” gobsmacked” , in depth article on violence within the ” England& Wales” totally failing
    prison system, on ITV national News at ten this evening , and they manage to find a guy with a Scottish accent to interview ( inmate/former inmate) , to corroborate the story . F ing unbelievable !

  164. Still Positive says:

    North Chiel @ 12.09

    Had this guy been in an English prison?

    The English prison service is fu**ed thanks to Michael Gove and others.

    Sorry I don’t get your point.

  165. colin alexander says:


    I’m primarily on here to critique the SNP and YES campaigns and praise strengths in the SNP / YES campaigns and encourage others to think about them too. In the hope that they will be the best they possibly can by the time of any indyref.

    Now’s the time to identify weaknesses and strengths, not when it’s too late.

    And until an indyref happens, if it happens, I encourage as many as possible to push for the exercising of our political sovereignty and that that is put into operation by pushing for parliamentary sovereignty for Holyrood in matters pertaining to Scotland – BEFORE we dissolve the Union once and for all.

    As my number one political aim is a sovereign Parliament for Scotland so that whether part of the UK ( as Richard Murphy talks about) or as an independent country as he also talks about, Scotland’s people and Scotland’s Parliament can block people like Michael Gove and other UK politicians that Scotland did not elect -and cannot un-elect – from ruling over Scottish political interests. To prevent them from forcing their politics on us after we have rejected them.

    I wouldn’t call Mr Gove a buffoon. I think even those in the Tory Party don’t refer to him as that. Something else beginning with b maybe, but not buffoon.

    But, Mr Gove is the Tory Party’s problem. All the he WM politicians from rUK ruling over us is our problem and it’s time something was done about it.

  166. colin alexander says:

    Correction: All the WM politicians from rUK ruling over us is our problem and it’s time something was done about it.

  167. colin alexander says:


    I am trying to avoid getting into personal stuff about people, whether it’s politicians or commenters.

    When I’ve been subjected to personal abuse I try to criticise the abuse rather than the person. I have also tried to point out a positive response or analytical rebuttal to my comment would do more good than attacking me for making that comment.

    If people want slagging matches, then maybe the Jeremy Kyle show or Twitter is the best place for that.

    Personally, it disnae interest me. It’s boring. Had all the “fascist, nazi, national socialist” insults thrown at me during 2014 and 2015 for campaigning for indy then the SNP.

    It’s disgusting that people act like that, but it’s a waste of time responding to it as it only encourages them.

    I agree with some of Rock’s posts. I agree with some of yours. We all have our own thoughts on matters. We should be able to express them without being abusive or being abused.

  168. Ghillie says:

    Robert Peffers. Well said tonight, especially @ 6.19 pm

    WASP, as a fellow SNP supporter, RP’s advice is good and worth heeding.

    Keep the faith = )

  169. mr thms says:

    shhhhh… keep it quiet… don’t tell anyone..

    30th Licensing Round welcomed by Oil & Gas UK

    It says…

    “Given the improved efficiency and cost effectiveness of the UKCS, the 30th Licensing Round has all the ingredients to prove successful for the UKCS, and indeed for the UK economy.”

  170. heedtracker says:

    I am trying to avoid getting into personal stuff about people, whether it’s politicians or commenters.

    No one who’s interested would expect you to be even remotely critical of the tories, red and blue and above all else ferocious yoons.

    Just like Rock, that’s not why your here at all Colin A. You are extremely insulting too, you just do it the sneaky way and not mention any names.

    Simple ask, tell us your view on the current SLab crew, Teresa’s mob, even Fluffie Mundell, if Mike Gove’s actually above your criticism?

  171. manandboy says:

    Where will it stop? We already see the UK Tory Government, including Labour and LibDems, trying to engineer the death of truth itself in the unending anti-Scottish Independence propaganda.

  172. Fred says:

    Anent the latest furore on leadership, or the lack of it, at Police Scotland, is there an in-written rule which asserts that the force cannot have a Scotsman in charge of it? parachuting careerists in from south of the Tweed who know nothing of the laws of Scotland. its people or topography, has not been an outstanding success!

  173. Robert Peffers says:

    @North Chiel says: 28 July, 2017 at 12:09 am:

    “Totally ” gobsmacked” , in depth article on violence within the ” England& Wales” totally failing
    prison system, on ITV national News at ten this evening , and they manage to find a guy with a Scottish accent to interview ( inmate/former inmate) , to corroborate the story . F ing unbelievable.”

    I’m glad to see some Wingers are starting to see how the YoonYoonists have been doing this propaganda think for centuries.

    The TV, radio and English film industries were all at it, and any film buff can verify the fact that the actor deliberately chosen to play the role of the hard-man villain or drunk guy lying in the gutter in Ealing Studios productions was invariably a Scot. In TV productions it was not just the BBC who were at it either.

    They are still at it in other ways and now it is customary for news items to as, “Normal Practice”, to word all news that only applies to England itself, or England & Wales only, without making it clear it is neither Britain nor the United Kingdom that is being referred to.

    For example I’ve just been scanning through this morning’s news on the BBC text Service:-

    Sixty Blocks, ‘fail new Grenfell fire test’, 60 tower blocks failed the new fire safety test. Then the story continues to claim, “It is thought nine blocks in Salford are the only local government-owned buildings affected so far.”
    No mention that it is, not Britain, not the UK and not even England & Wales.

    They invariably also report anything to do with such as the English NHS just as, “The NHS”, as if it applied throughout not just the United Kingdom but as, “Britain”.

    Nothing new there, though, there is actually no such thing as The British Army, or British armed forces of any kind they are reporting on United Kingdom forces. Similarly there is no such thing as The British Government because all governments in the British isles are British governments and there are eight countries in Britain.

    Only four of them are under Westminster rule. One British government is a republic and three others are non-UK Crown Protectorates. Not to mention that only three of the four United Kingdom countries have their own devolved government.

    Not to mention either that there is no such thing as the Prime Minister of Britain either. It is all long established English/British Nationalist propaganda.

  174. Ken500 says:

    The Oil & Gas sector has been taxed at 40% since Jan 2016 by the Tories. Osbourne put it up 10% in 2010. Up to 80% (50% + 30% supplementary). The companies cut exploration wells. It was 62% when the price had fallen 75%. The Tories are responsible for the slump. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. Brexit will lose thousands more. There are still massive gas fields in Scottish waters to be developed. CCS schemes are still possible for the whole of the EU with Grant available. Reneged on by the Westminster Gov. Fracked Gas from the US is being imported.

    Mad Cow came from Alabama.

    Tory MSP’s from the NE are worth £2Million have an income of £1/2 Million getting £100,000? In subsidies. + MSP salaries and expense. Complaining about freebees (prescriptions) for others. The Tories blame the SNP for 40 years of Tory policies in the fishing industry, The fishermen were throwing back more dead fish than they caught for over forty years. Leading to conservation measures being introduced. Instead of using bigger nets like the Norwegians.

    The Tories/LibDems in the NE are intending cutting £Millions in education. They have already cut additional needs/specialist teachers, cut the bases and the ‘one stop’ shop causing misery for anxious families and creating overcrowded schools, Now they intend cutting rural schools. It is despicable. Millionaire farmers ruling the roost. Getting subsidies and decrying others. Cutting rural services. Claiming the average farmer gets £12K a year. Pull the other one. Maybe they should get less in subsidy to help those who need it. Greedy.The Scottish Gov should publish all the CAP accounts. In the interest of openness and fairness. The Tory/Unionists took the EU cap payments intended for struggling Scottish farmers.

    Brexit is reported to damage Aberdeen and the NE. The City is already £1.2Billion in debt because the unionist manipulating council have overspent on grotesque projects of no value and cut essential services. They can’t count or read a balance sheet. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. Illegal selling the City in the Stock Exchange. Is that legal? They are totally incompetent. Liars.

  175. scotspine says:

    @John H

    Every time I see Gove, the word “deviant” somehow springs to mind.

  176. Ken500 says:

    Gove betrayed his ‘mates’, and the whole electorate with the Brexit lies. The Independence movement benefits from his illicit behaviour. He supports the warmonger Blair on every occasion. Including in the Commons where he lies about the Scottish economy. He got a completely free education. A scholarship and Oxford paid for by public money. Then introduces £9000 fess for others. A scheming little lying hypocrite. In Murdoch pocket. His wife is a right wing ‘journalist’. Every time he opens his mouth. The Independence vote goes up.

  177. heedtracker says:

    Saw this and thought of you Colin A, or yous as you like to say,

    “After much hard thought, I have concluded I am just not grown up enough to play the game of British politics and sit in a room with a man of whom I think so little.

    Yes, he may have done good by bringing in free school meals while at Education. Yes, he made positive moves while at Justice.

    But since then he has disgraced himself. He was one of those who continued the £350 million-a-week EU lie and led us down the disastrous path to the utter folly of Brexit. He has been revealed to be a plotter and a conniver and all-round rather nasty piece of work. No, I cannot sit in a room with him and make talk, small, large or otherwise. Sorry. I’m just not that guy.”

    Mike Gove’s merely a toryboy, another one Colin A.

    BBC r4 Today gimps gave toryboy’s toryboy Phil Hammond about half their show Today too Colin. Yous should listen to it, its toryboy heaven, beeb gimp wise.

  178. Ken500 says:

    The SNP is still winning in spite of the rest. Vote SNP/SNP. Standing up for Scotland. Vote for Independence in the EU. The BBC is losing – viewers/listeners. Faster than a sieve loses water. Especially in Scotland. £3.7Billion for nonsense. Overpaid prima donna ‘presenters. There are plenty of alternatives. Tax evaders reporting on tax evasion. They support it. Hypocrites.

  179. heedtracker says:

    Gove’s just like my Slovene girlfriend, Professor Smirky, a toryboy chancer.

    Adam Tomkins MSP?Verified account @ProfTomkins Jul 14

    Back from holiday to find that science fiction still dominates one half of Scottish politics

    Gove’s first journo job at neo fascist Voice of the North Press and Journal, ended just after it began in a very long early 80’s strike in Aberdeen. Gove was one of the most ardent strikers against P&J moves to modernise, a lot like what Murdoch did to Fleet Street.

    Not saying Gove was one of the strikers thumping the bosses limo windscreen with his One Out, All Out placards, but just like Prof Smirky up there, he was very much a far left shouty zealot.

    Maybe Gove’s just another “can’t beat them join them” kind of toryboy.

    My Slovene girlfriend use to want the royals scrapped. Now he’s mincing round the Ibrox director’s box.

    You can do this all day with the sneaky creepy toryboys.

    Hopefully Colin A and Rock will pile in too!

  180. Although we grew up trusting the BBC because that’s where the news came from, I see it as
    A very selective purveyor of information. Likewise, some of the presenters seem to think they are gasp, breathless, eyelash flutter, celebrities. Even the news is welcoming in the New Year!
    I perceive that radio presenters, read out someone else’s scripts, sort of detached.
    Oh dear, I was once an optimist, but I failed. ?

  181. Giving Goose says:

    The Britnat position in Scotland needs to be mocked and shown up for the pile of shit that it is and for the pile of shit of an entity – the UK – that it supports and identifies with.

    Britain, the UK, the idea of the UK and it’s position in the world should be mocked and ridiculed at every opportunity. A visual joke should be used to fix the view of the UK/Britnat in people’s minds; that it is regarded as a joke, that it’s identity is forever tarnished in our minds, that Scots of a Yes persuasion have turned their back on the institution that is the UK/Britnatery and that we now regard it with the contempt that it so deserves.

    I propose that we create a cartoon character to represent Britnat, in fact give the character a name of “BritNat”.

    I suggest that we use Mr Hankey, from Southpark, as a template. A little poo, dressed in Union Jack clothing.

    BritNat the UK Poo.

    Is there a graphic guru out there that can knock this up?

    Then we associate the visual graphic everywhere the opportunity presents itself. That should help counter the propaganda.

  182. Ken500 says:

    LibDem supported schools meals. While they supported the Tories (Cameron/Osbourne) which lead to Brexit policies. Led to the demise of Cameron/Osbourne and the LibDems. Cameron/Osbourhe/Clegg all gone. Humiliated. Still sniping on the sidelines. The vower liars. Now the LibDems are complaining about what they did.

    May/Gove do not agree with school meals they want to cut them but can’t because of a reduced majority. The Tories have cut Education/NHS spending in England. £4Billion a year on NHS. From 2015 to 2000 intended to cut £4Billion a year, £20Billion. The Tories were allocating £Billions in education diverted to ‘free’ schools. Selection. They have had to stop and increase spending on average allocation. Class sizes in England are averaging 35. They are trying to get them down to 31.

    The Tories are spending £Billions on grotesque projects of no value when there are less costly, more productive schemes available. Hinkley Point by the sea. Overpriced disaster waiting to happen. HS2 will make journeys throughout Britain take longer. They are cutting essential public services. Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable and causing the worst migration crisis in Europe since 11WW costing £Trns, Illegally bombing the Middle East to bits and ruining the world economy.

    John Sweeney is allocating education money directly to school in deprived areas because the unionist councils cut the education budgets. They spend public money on grotesque (private) projects of no value and cut essential services they should be funding. They can’t count or read a balance sheet.

    Why does it take 3 to 6 months for the Blair ‘London’ Court for a decision on minimum pricing. Passed by the Scottish Gov over four years ago, Going round the houses. When they know if they do not support the Scottish legal system (already passed in parliament), they break the terms of the Act of Union. Scottish legal system and sovereignty guaranteed forever. Unless by agreement of both country’s representatives. Stop the googkygook. It is costing Scottish lives and leaving folk in despair and poverty.

    People in Scotland are being denied their rights as EU citizens. The right to appeal to the ECHR without impediment, because of the Blair ‘London’. Court, having to agree with Scottish Law or break the term of the Act of Union. Some lawyer should appeal it to the ECHR. People in Scotland being denied their right to appeal as EU citizens.

  183. Tinto Chiel says:

    Interesting link re Jay Rayner, heed. I used to think he was just the rather tiresome, archetypal BBC luvvie, fit only to drone on about organic sun-dried quinoa burgers, so I was quite surprised to see this:

    Of course, as you always say, when Auntie isn’t actually monstering the SNP/SG it’s completely ignoring us.

  184. Fred says:

    Nana, dunno about anybody else but the Lynx posted on the “Having to make a choice!” thread take ages to read!

  185. heedtracker says:

    Of course, as you always say, when Auntie isn’t actually monstering the SNP/SG it’s completely ignoring us.

    Indeed. All of it’s great British tory propaganda. eg

    This banality was head of RBS mortgage division, but jumped just before the great City crash. Beeb gimps treat her like a goddess though, when prison probably is too good for all of them,

    Kirsty Young’s castaway is Jayne-Anne Gadhia, Chief Executive of Virgin Money. She is currently the government’s Women in Finance Champion. She worked for Fred Goodwin at RBS just prior to the financial crisis before returning to Virgin Money in 2007. A mother of one, she endured many miscarriages and has written about her experience of post-natal depression following her daughter’s birth.

    An only child, she was brought up first in the Midlands, then in East Anglia.”

    The socio economic domination of this tory culture, red and blue, is clearly quite tricky to shake off, as we know.

  186. Tinto Chiel says:

    That’s a coincidence: was just listening to that excruciating programme and remarked to the Home Secretary, “She’s there as the lovely, cuddly human face of the barstewards who destroyed the economy.”

    BBC: 24-hour Sneakdom. They can’t help it and they never stop.

    Give us a wave, Kirsty and Eddie…..

  187. heedtracker says:

    Give us a wave, Kirsty and Eddie…..

    I think that Desert Island disks ting today was almost perfect beeb gimp tory propaganda. Pravda would applaud.

    All that’s really interesting is why beeb gimps think this is the what and how tory reign is held in place.

    Core BBC r4 audience is profoundly tory English though but you do have to wonder how bad it can get with all the liggers, the near on half million BBC employs.

    Another day of beeb Scotland shite rolls out.

    This is so empty of fact, its comical. Scottish ecosystems are almost all dead zones, systematically destroyed by a relatively small workforce, employed solely to kill everything that lives in rural Scotland.

    And all of it EU subsidised too. Yet beeb Scotland gimps never mention these rather horrifying facts of Scottish life.

    Not content with burning all life off of the Highland’s, or poisoning and shooting, our imperial masters also use this. Reported by BBC Scotland? ofcourse not. Its British, and you’re British, so it’s good thing.

  188. Nana says:

    I will no longer post links to Commonspace. After today’s article requesting folk support Dugdale they’ve lost a reader.

  189. Macart says:


    They what?

  190. Macart says:

    Oh good grief. 🙁

  191. colin Alexander says:


    Thank you for suggesting the Jay Rayner article to me. It was an interesting read.

    I can fully understand Jay Rayner’s feelings.

    I once had the misfortune of speaking with Oliver Mundell, and found it hard to listen to his answer on my question about cuts in benefits for sick and disabled people. He totally denied it was even happening.

    I ended the discussion with a snort of disgust, grimace and shake of my head. I said a perfunctory goodbye as I was unable to express what I was really thinking.

    I could have accepted it if he dismissed the question by saying he’s nowt to do with DWP policies; UK Govt are responsible for that. And even if he offered weasel words of sympathy for sick and disabled people, but to totally deny what’s obvious Tory benefit cuts.


    I wonder if Mr O. Mundell ever considered his answer when within a week or two, Iain Duncan Smith resigned from his job as Work and Pensions Secretary with this resignation letter:

    “I am incredibly proud of the welfare reforms that the government has delivered over the last five years. Those reforms have helped to generate record rates of employment and in particular a substantial reduction in workless households.
    As you know, the advancement of social justice was my driving reason for becoming part of your ministerial team and I continue to be grateful to you for giving me the opportunity to serve. You have appointed good colleagues to my department who I have enjoyed working with. It has been a particular privilege to work with excellent civil servants and the outstanding Lord Freud and other ministers including my present team, throughout all of my time at the Department of Work and Pensions.
    I truly believe that we have made changes that will greatly improve the life chances of the most disadvantaged people in this country and increase their opportunities to thrive. A nation’s commitment to the least advantaged should include the provision of a generous safety-net but it should also include incentive structures and practical assistance programmes to help them live independently of the state. Together, we’ve made enormous strides towards building a system of social security that gets the balance right between state help and self help.
    Throughout these years, because of the perilous public finances we inherited from the last Labour administration, difficult cuts have been necessary. I have found some of these cuts easier to justify than others but aware of the economic situation and determined to be a team player I have accepted their necessity.
    You are aware that I believe the cuts would have been even fairer to younger families and people of working age if we had been willing to reduce some of the benefits given to better-off pensioners but I have attempted to work within the constraints that you and the chancellor set.
    I have for some time and rather reluctantly come to believe that the latest changes to benefits to the disabled and the context in which they’ve been made are a compromise too far. While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need.
    I am unable to watch passively whilst certain policies are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political rather than in the national economic interest.
    Too often my team and I have been pressured in the immediate run up to a budget or fiscal event to deliver yet more reductions to the working age benefit bill. There has been too much emphasis on money saving exercises and not enough awareness from the Treasury, in particular, that the government’s vision of a new welfare-to-work system could not be repeatedly salami-sliced.
    It is therefore with enormous regret that I have decided to resign. You should be very proud of what this government has done on deficit reduction, corporate competitiveness, education reforms and devolution of power. I hope as the government goes forward you can look again, however, at the balance of the cuts you have insisted upon and wonder if enough has been done to ensure “we are all in this together”.


  192. heedtracker says:

    I ended the discussion with a snort of disgust, grimace and shake of my head. I said a perfunctory goodbye as I was unable to express what I was really thinking.

    What are you really thinking Colin A?

    You seem to be for some sort of devo for Scotland but you want to keep the UK?

    Why is that so hard to say out loud Colin?

    No one is going to bite your head off. There is no need for any kind of doublespeak, or Rock style unionism.

    Or maybe there is.

    Far bigger brains than mine are at work, holding together whatever it is the unionists think this UK union actually is.

  193. Foonurt says:

    Nana (1-12pm) – ah, noo wurr seein thurr richt colours.

    Awe yoan fifth-columnists, oan thurr weiy. Ah shoourr ah erses.

  194. colin Alexander says:


    No, Devolution means Westminster domination. WM domination means what we have now.

    I want to end WM domination. So, I want an end to WM devolution regarding Scotland. (What Wales and N.I decide is up to them.)

    I think independence is the best solution. But I’m a democrat. This has to be achieved democratically via elections on an indy mandate and then a vote by parliament ( my personal preference) or by indy ref if that’s what it takes.

    It’s a mistake to say the choice is status quo v independence. That is what the UK Govt made us choose. All or nothing. Take it or leave it.

    I’m saying we are sovereign. We should decide what WE want. It’s not for the UK Govt to limit our choices or tell us what we can or can’t have.n

    It’s sensible to find as much common ground as possible with those who voted No or aren’t yet convinced by independence.

    Ask them if they support making Holyrood the sovereign parliament in Scottish democracy. If we reach consensus it’s another step forward in making Scotland more democratic.

    Let’s put Labour, LibDems and Tories on the spot: Scottish sovereignty v WM sovereignty.

    Whether we reach the ultimate goal of indy or not, if we achieve parliamentary sovereignty for Holyrood, Wm domination will be ended.

    And the road to indy would be a simpler, smaller next step. When Scotland’s people choose it.

  195. heedtracker says:

    colin Alexander says:
    28 July, 2017 at 7:07 pm

    Youre still not clear Colin. Lets assume that is idea behind your btl comments, can I ask you a simple question, to make it simple for me,

    Do you support Scotland’s ref2?

    “I think independence is the best solution. But I’m a democrat.”

    This is a very odd thing to say, We’re all democrats. That’s the whole driver behind Scottish democracy.

    We’re not living in a democracy. We are governed by another country, however they decide to vote, they decide for Scots, like me, sovereign or not.

  196. colin alexander says:

    Do you support Scotland’s ref2 ?

    I campaign for Scotland’s Parliament to be the sovereign parliament for Scotland. The electorate and then the SP gave the mandate for one. So, of course I agree the mandate is there.

    If an indyref were held I’d campaign for and vote for indy. But my favoured approach is indy following elections and then a vote by MSPs on indy.

    Am I in favour of the same question being asked and only that question?
    viz: Should Scotland be an independent country?

    Totally opposed to that question being asked again.

    I would offer:

    Multiple choice preferences using a PR system: full indy, Scotland’s Parl sovereign within the Union, the status quo could all be options.

    I’m a democrat so indy has to be achieved by elections and vote by politicians or a referendum. There hasn’t been a clear and consistent majority for independence – yet.

    You have to get a pro-indy majority of MSPs elected or win an indyref referendum.


    To early to say if that will happen. I’ll tell you after the voting.

    “We are governed by another country, however they decide to vote, they decide for Scots, like me, sovereign or not.”

    Agreed. So we should be independent, or at the very least, Scotland’s parliament should be able to prevent rUK deciding what happens to Scotland without our informed consent. That should be for the people and politicians of Scotland to give or refuse.

    Wallonia’s regional parliament in Belgium was able to block a Belgian / EU & Canada ( CITAS) trade deal. At the very minimum Scotland should already have that sort of political power as part of the UK.

    That it doesn’t is an absolute disgrace.

  197. colin alexander says:

    If we are going for independence, let’s make it real independence, not the watery, wishy-washy, middling, mediocre type of so-called independence, like the SNP offer with all their devolution policies.

    Real indy, not sharing the Pound.

    Real indy first, not in the EU or Single Market unless indy Scotland votes for that.

    Real indy, the people of indy Scotland decide the head of state, not the SNP telling us we’ll get HM Queeen. If the people of indy Scotland decide the Queen, fine. If not HMQ, fine.

    It should be the people’s decision, not the SNP’s.

  198. K1 says:

    You talk about the snp as if they are not ‘people’ and are not the representatives of the ‘people’ who placed them in both parliaments. It’s as if you see them as you see Labour and Tory, but they’re not at all like them as a party in the structure of how they go about setting policies etc,

    Mr Peffers has elaborated on that ad infintum, the snp is not top down, and yet you repeatedly give the impression that they are.

    It’s like you wanted to ‘rise’ in the snp and be a voice and they didn’t listen to ‘you’, so you come across as disappointed about that and it fuels your grudge. No matter how you continue to dress it up, it’s a grudge at work.

    They’re not going to listen to you Colin. It’s not going to go the way ‘you’ want. It’s going to go the way ‘we’ want.

    In terms of the referendum 2014, the only error they made was the common projection that we all suffer from, believing we are dealing with straight forward decent people like ourselves. Turns out the Tories and Labour showed their colours to everyone for what they were and are, a complete shower of lying manipulative bastards who used their owned media to scare the shit out of half of Scotland.

    So ‘don’t scare the horses’ address all the salient aspects of our shared heritage within the UK, a positive inclusive campaign. In essence they came from an intent of goodness.

    We scared the shit out of them Colin. Because in spite of their victory, they lost nearly 30% of their lead, they didn’t expect that. And since September 2014 they have thrown everything at us to quell this movement and still the numbers aren’t shifting away from independence. GE15 was off the scale as a result for snp in Westminster context. It’s absurd to suggest the snp ‘lost’ in any political meaningful way at GE17, given the actual campaign by the Tories and Labour in Scotland. And in fact it is astounding that we still have 35 MP’s in Westminster in spite of the shit they threw at us again.

    They can’t kill it. No matter how people like yourself dress this up as ‘snp’ as the culprits and if only they’d see these other options then we’d get our independence. I call bullshit on that Colin.

    Without them we don’t have a chance and that is why the guns are permanently aimed on them via the entire media in Scotland. They crush the snp, they think they crush independence.

    And if the broader movement collapses because of factionalisation, the sort of stuff you’re involved in on Wings btl and the sort of stuff common space and former supporters of the SNP’s prospectus, who are now advocating Labour because ‘Corbyn’, then we who will always support the party who’s lifelong mission it has been to secure our autonomy from England, will keep the faith with the only party who has ever taken us this far and this close to that reality.

    The SNP aren’t the problem. The corruption is in the people who seek to make a name for themselves on the backs of those from that party, who basically gave them a voice during the first referendum, simply be securing the first ever democratic vote that Scotland has ever had on its own constitutional arrangements since ‘ever’ and now they seek to secure positions within the political firmament in Scotland.

    For them it’s ‘personal’ too. And they don’t care who they shit on, just so long as they are heard and their ambition to be ‘somebody’ is fulfilled.

    Of course I’m not sugggesring that you have those ambitions Colin. I think you’re just a guy wi a grudge who loves taking about what ‘you’ think is right and wrong about the SNP. It’s dressed up in constitutions waffle, but it’s really just all about Colin.

  199. Ghillie says:

    Well said K1 @ 3.21

    My interpretation of what I read there was that the piece was a misrepresentation of what the SNP do, have done, and their ethos.

    A fine example of Gish Galloping.

  200. colin alexander says:


    I’m looking to the future. I don’t want the mistakes of the past repeated. Simple as that.

    If there’s an indyref or whatever, to achieve indy, I want it to win.

    Indy is for everyone, not just SNP supporters.

  201. Fred says:

    Well said K1, obviously took his music to the party & wasn’t asked to sing, hence the empathy deficit, his problem!

  202. Tinto Chiel says:

    Back to your best, K1.

  203. heedtracker says:

    I’m a democrat so indy has to be achieved by elections and vote by politicians or a referendum. There hasn’t been a clear and consistent majority for independence – yet.”

    We are all democrats.

    We do not live in a democracy though.

    Look at how ref2 has been blocked, by the tories in Scotland and England, red and blue. They know we can win.

    Your sovereignty plan is fair enough but considering fledgling Scottish democracy is under ever growing attack, from yoon culture, led in the main by BBC Scotland, and totally blanked out by BBC England, you’re leading us all to nowhere, so no thanks.

  204. Edward MacD says:

    My journey to YES began when I was around aged 9 way back in the 70’s. I remember my father was a Tory, whereas I was an anarchist, years before it became a popular fake version via “punk rock”.

    So why would an anarchist support Independence? Well, it is rather obvious, self government.

    One aspect of Scotland having its own real government means that we can take a more direct approach to those claiming to govern us. We can make them accountable even though they think they’re above such. Small is workable, big just becomes so impersonal that no one matters (as we see with all organizations, businesses, etc).

    Democracy as it is known now is by name only, the actual process is anything but democratic. That again is what I want to see in Scotland. It’s all very well talking about equality, fairness, etc, but without the actuality we have to do more than merely talk.

    So Scotland gets Independence then we can have other parties spring up. Parties for the people of Scotland, not parties to control all things Scottish.

  205. Sarah says:

    @ Edward MacD: completely agree. The party system is terribly undemocratic and encourages all the faults we see. Ideally we would elect individuals and judge them on character, ability, experience in the real world.

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