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Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, part 674

Posted on October 26, 2015 by

From today’s Daily Record:

“When the major new powers are transferred to Holyrood, the Scottish Parliament will be responsible for decisions about our schools, hospitals, transport, policing, justice and housing, as well as setting income tax rates and developing our own social security system.”

This one is, in fairness, mostly true. Technically. Sort of. Well, not really.

It’s mostly true, of course, in the sense that of the eight things Dugdale lists, six (and a half) of them are ALREADY devolved to Holyrood. The Scottish Parliament won’t be responsible for them “when the major new powers are transferred”, it’s responsible for them right now. It’s been responsible for schools, hospitals, transport, policing, justice, housing and setting income tax rates since 1999.

(The last one within some restricted parameters, hence the half. Within a few years those restrictions will be removed, but the powers remain completely unusable in practice so they make no actual difference. Still, they’ll exist.)

“Developing our own social security system”, of course, is a total lie. Almost all of welfare, including pensions and Universal Credit, remains reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Bill 2015, with the Scottish Government allowed to fiddle around the edges a bit by diverting money from elsewhere to help people suffering from the Conservatives’ reforms.

Just two of the benefits that will remain reserved account by themselves for almost 72% of the total welfare budget – pensions and the six separate payments UC will replace add up to £153.2bn of the total £213.6bn spend.

welfarespend

That’s not “our own social security system”, that’s getting to twiddle around with about a quarter of somebody else’s, not including any of the important bits. (In fact Scottish Government calculations put the proportion of welfare actually coming under Holyrood’s control at just 15%.)

These “major new powers”, then, are in reality neither major nor new. Scotland already has most of them, and the only ones that are actually new additions basically amount to choosing what make of gun you want the firing squad to shoot you with.

Nevertheless, by Kezia Dugdale’s standards a score of 0.5 out of eight is still a pretty substantial improvement, and we’re the last people to begrudge progress. Well done.

.

Some previous Kezia Dugdale Fact Checks: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]

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      Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, part 674 | Politics S...

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    167 to “Kezia Dugdale Fact Check, part 674”

    1. Grouse Beater says:

      A new legend for Labour’s Branch Office Scotland:

      “Seek Ye Enlightenment Elsewhere”
      Or
      “Let the Sick, The Poor, and the Lost FO”

    2. Jim Thomson says:

      Seems like we need a “Kezia-speak to English” dictionary with a foreword from her dad explaining just how she achieved such keen insight into how things work.

    3. handclapping says:

      As the cliche says its not how slow you are to learn it not stopping that will get you there.

      In Kez’s case that’ll be after independence then.

    4. Irene says:

      At least she’s consistent. Horribly consistent.

    5. muttley79 says:

      “When the major new powers are transferred to Holyrood, the Scottish Parliament will be responsible for decisions about our schools, hospitals, transport, policing, justice and housing, as well as setting income tax rates and developing our own social security system.”

      This is the type of drivel we have come to expect from unionist politicians in Scotland. Instead of telling us the truth they keep on rolling out their half truths, obfuscations, exaggerations, if not outright lying. The ironic thing is next year we could have had all the powers of a nation state at the disposal of our national parliament, instead of the watered down, inadequate mess of the Smith Commission.

    6. mr thms says:

      You might want to list all the benefits that are still reserved as there are an awful lot of them.

      http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/06/6166/2

      This is a list of the benefits Scotland will be responsible for.

      http://www.welfareweekly.com/what-benefits-are-being-devolved-to-scotland/

      I would give her another half point as Scotland would be able to create new disability and career benefits

    7. Macart says:

      Oh, it’s getting embarrassing now.

      Imagine the branch manager being unaware of just what powers were already available.

    8. Andrew McLean says:

      Maybee we are being a bit harsh, she is at least acknowledging the demand for Scotland to be the master of its own destiny! I wish her well on her journey of discovery, from the Iron Brew boy’s sidekick, to realising the momentum started in September 2014 is gaining pace. I wonder if she has been briefed by the clunking Brown, he must be fuming that his instruction to westminster about two weeks to save the union has been treated with the reverence of double glazing junk mail. At this rate she will be a SNP member about 2020! Least her dad will be pleased!

    9. Muscleguy says:

      @mr thms

      but how will it pay for them? or the administration of them? There will be no extra money for them. They are there so the Unionists can point at them and tell people the SNP are not delivering on them. Raise expectations then blame the SNP when they are not delivered. Watch and learn.

    10. Allan Thomson says:

      Wonder when she’ll be on with Answerless Andrew Neil being allowed to expound this claptrap.

    11. Donald MacKenzie says:

      I think WoS is becoming terribly unfair to Kezia. Again and gain, you question her thinking and demand that she be truthful and not tell lies.

      Good God, don’t you understand that the wee lass is incapable of working out what is truth and what is not and when she does, it doesn;t get in the way of her saying whatever comes in to her head. And, in addition, all she’s had as a role model is thon guy Murphy.

    12. galamcennalath says:

      It’s those recurring questions which always seem to apply to All SLab politicians.

      Does Kezia understand?

      If so, does she hope the voters she is addressing don’t understand?

    13. Phil Robertson says:

      “Developing our own social security system”, of course, is a total lie.

      I am afraid that the above statement is itself a lie. If you are serious in your assertion then it further indicates your difficulty with comprehension of English.

      The powers that will be devolved are more than enough to allow the development of a social security system in Scotland that is different from elsewhere in the UK.

      You further undermine your argument by equating 72% with “almost all”. For rational thinkers, it is slightly less than three-quarters.

    14. Giving Goose says:

      On the Record piece, if you look at the caption below the picture of Kez, it reads;

      “Kezia says English regions should learn from Scotland’s mistakes.”

      Huge Freudian Slip there! Did you spot it?

      Scotland is a Region in Kezia’s view.

    15. proudscot says:

      It’s easy to understand where Kezia Dugdale got her skewed version of the wonders of Westminster double-speak from – her two mentors were Lord Boozebag Foulkes and Policy-a-Day Jim Murphy.

    16. CameronB Brodie says:

      Macart
      There is no way the branch manager was unaware. This is directed towards those who do not pay attention to politics (the majority). The announcement is as cynical as it is pathetic.

    17. crazycat says:

      @ Macart

      I don’t think she is unaware. I think she’s hoping her readers are unaware.

      It’s true that all the powers she lists will be available when the new powers are added, but for most of them, not only when.

      A lot of people don’t know which powers are currently devolved, so she can con them.

    18. Fred says:

      Kezia’s pronouncements get dafter & dafter, she’s trying to raise her profile above that of Willie Rennie at present.

      What I really want to know is who won the SNP Conference Car Raffle?

    19. heedtracker says:

      So vote NO for The Vow fraud has turned out to be nothing at all, just more UKOK lies.

      What a difference a year doesn’t make in teamGB. And cue the UKOK lie machine trying to con everyone, led by BBC and SLabour, all new federal, devo-max SLabour.

    20. Bob Mack says:

      The Record claims in that article that Lamont said
      That SOMETIMES Labour treated Scotland like a branch office.. That is not what I remember Johann saying.
      The power of misdirection is strong at the Record.
      The article actually contains a few attempts to rewrite history. Chancers.

    21. crazycat says:

      @ CameronB Brodie

      Snap 🙂

    22. Bob Mack says:

      If Kezia is so unaware why does she condtantly attack the SNP at question time on these very issues ,citing the fact that they are devolved.
      This is most definitely for the gullible

    23. Onwards says:

      Even if all of welfare was devolved, it wouldn’t be enough.
      It could help the poorest, but it’s still just spending powers and shuffling around the same pot of money.

      What the Scottish government needs is far more economic powers to have a chance to grow the economy faster, and more control over strategic areas like energy.

    24. CameronB Brodie says:

      crazycat
      😉

    25. CameronB Brodie says:

      Onwards
      Scotland’s main economic difficulty is the environment it operates within, i.e. the UK economy. The macro-economics of an overly centralised UK state, undermines and constrains Scotland’s development potential. If we were able to determine our own policy (especially interest rates) and benefit from our own wealth, Scotland would become unrecognisable in a couple of generations, IMHO.

    26. Ken500 says:

      No change

      Trident now estimated at £170Billion, no Oil develoment on the West, no tax on ‘loss leading’ drink, no control of the Oil sector or whisky tax evaders etc. Still paying debt repayment on money borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. Tories still starving the vulnerable.

    27. Dr Jim says:

      Should have asked her Daddy first before opening Gub again
      She must know by now more folk listen to Mr Dugdale than listens to his wee lassie

      Note to Kez: Take your Daddy’s advice hen he’s trying to do his best for you, before you take that unreturnable wrong path in life that there’s no coming back from,,EVER,,,

    28. Efijy says:

      Dipty Dug has never had an original idea of her own.

      Those lovely right wing extremists, who are killing the Daily Redcoat, have presented her with the script that made a good read to her mind.

      No publicity is bad publicity for the Labour Party.

      Her social worker, McTernan, must have signed it off for her. They work together like Keith Harris & Orville.

    29. galamcennalath says:

      No matter how vague The Vow and other more powers offers made in Sept 2014, any interpretation presents far more devolution than the Scotland Bill 2015 has. Said Bill doesn’t even seem to reach the levels of the Smith proposals agreed by even the Tories at the time.

      Scotland Bill 2015 is at best DevoNotMuch and at worst DevoPoisonedChalice.

      Yet, it is obvious all Unionists are going to portray it as DevoNearEnoughMax. In this attempted con, they will be aided by the BBC and CorpMedia.

      It won’t work. Three quarters of Scots want significantly more powers, one way or another. And, despite attempts to say otherwise, few people will see this as delivery.

      Then decision time, only Indy delivers.

    30. Tony Little says:

      @Phil Robertson

      So you think that having control over 15% of Welfare will enable a Scottish Government to “allow the development of a social security system in Scotland that is different from elsewhere in the UK.”? Seriously?

      How will that work then when the following Welfare areas will continue to be Reserved to Westminster (assuming that the Scotland Bill 2015 is not further diluted)

      Income Support
      In Work Credit & Return to Work Credit
      Job Grant
      Jobseekers Allowance
      Financial Assistance Scheme
      Pension Credit
      State Pension
      State Pension Transfers
      TV Licences
      Employment & Support Allowance
      Incapacity Benefit
      Specialised Vehicles fund
      Statutory Sick Pay
      Vaccine Damage Payments
      Child Benefit
      Child Tax Credit
      Guardians Allowance
      Maternity Allowance
      Statutory Maternity Pay
      Council Tax Reduction
      New Deal & Employment Programme Allowances
      New Enterprise Allowance
      Scottish Welfare Fund
      Social Fund (regulated)
      Working Tax Credit
      Housing Benefit
      Christmas bonus
      Universal Credit
      Other small benefits such as child trust fund etc.

    31. heedtracker says:

      Muscleguy says:
      26 October, 2015 at 12:02 pm
      @mr thms

      but how will it pay for them? or the administration of them? There will be no extra money for them.

      Prof A Tomkins, future Tory MSP, co-author of Smith Commission explains his UKOK genius for us. Want more benefits? now you can raise paye tax in their Scotland region,

      https://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/the-smith-commission-agreement-and-the-scotland-bill/

      Prof T and co “gave” Scotland paye because

      “The reason why this matters is simple. If Scottish Ministers do not like the tax and spend decisions taken by the United Kingdom Government in Westminster, the Smith Commission Agreement — and now today’s Bill — gives them the power to do something about it.

      In short, they will be able to put our money where their mouths are. They can fill what they perceive to be gaps in public spending on welfare and social security. They can create new benefits. They can top-up, for Scots, even those benefits which continue to be reserved to Westminster. And they have the tax powers to pay for it all.

      This is why the Prime Minister said yesterday that it is finally time for the SNP to put up or shut up. At last, we can move the argument on from nationalists’ bleating that they don’t have sufficient powers to a forensic examination of how they choose to use their powers.”

      Put up or shut. Nowhere in his blog does Prof T examine what paye tax hikes will do to Scotland economically nor does he explain why Scotland will have to be taxed even more for his toryboy world austerity UK. But that’s not the mission what toryboys like Prof T are on.

    32. Onwards says:

      muttley79 says:
      26 October, 2015 at 11:47 am

      ..
      This is the type of drivel we have come to expect from unionist politicians in Scotland. Instead of telling us the truth they keep on rolling out their half truths, obfuscations, exaggerations, if not outright lying. The ironic thing is next year we could have had all the powers of a nation state at the disposal of our national parliament, instead of the watered down, inadequate mess of the Smith Commission.

      I was actually slightly worried that Dugdale was going to announce a real Scottish Labour party, and campaign for Devo-Max.
      Alongside an separate Labour party in England promising federalism and a reformed ‘pooling and sharing’ transfer mechanism that works both ways.
      And scrapping/reforming of the House of Lords, which could be a vote winner.

      The SNP might actually have some real competition then.

      As things stand, Labour in Scotland remain a branch office with little ambition, and Corbyn isn’t interested in new powers for Scotland. Kezia thinks he is unelectable in England anyway, so we are stuck with the Tories.

      The Scottish branch just wants to bumble on with the limited powers available and no ambition.
      As things stand, she will be booted out next year, and we will go through this charade again with Jackie Baillie or whoever is next in line.

    33. Paul Convery says:

      Kezia Dugdale,lead turd polisher of the North British branch of the labour party.

    34. Macart says:

      @Cameron B and crazycat

      Heh, Of course she’s aware. 🙂

      Ms Dugdale’s major problem is that so are we. I may try to apply heavier layers of sarcasm in future, but I’m rubbish at it as a general rule. 😀

    35. bookie from hell says:

      Lady Mone ?@MichelleMone · 3m3 minutes ago
      Off to @UKHouseofLords big day

    36. Callum says:

      Ms Dugdale and Mr Rennie have clearly realised that there is a large %age of voters pre-referendum that were favouring devo-max and now, inexplicably both parties are chasing them.

      I can’t help but think the horse has bolted although, perhaps they are looking at such dismal Holyrood returns that capturing a few disillusioned No Voters who aren’t ready to vote for the SNP et al, might make all the difference when fighting 3rd and 4th place.

    37. galamcennalath says:

      Onwards says:

      “I was actually slightly worried that Dugdale was going to announce a real Scottish Labour party, and campaign for Devo-Max.”

      Indeed. Survival, success even, was laid out before SLab just waiting to be grabbed.

      That has been the situation from 2011 when they had their first electoral rejection and an Indy ref became inevitable. Then was the time of Labour to lift the (genuine) DevoMax baton and run with it.

      Too late. The train has left. Adopting (genuine) DevoMax now, after being the party at Smith which wanted to devolve least, would be treated with due contempt.

    38. cirsium says:

      Ms Dugdale clearly believes in the George W Bush maxim

      “You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.”

    39. CameronB Brodie says:

      Macart
      😉

    40. crazycat says:

      @ Tony Little

      I suspect Phil Robertson is using the word “different” in the way that designers of Spot the Difference puzzles use it, not in the way that Kezia Dugdale hopes (probably correctly) that most of the readers of her article will use it – i.e. a fundamental, radical, immediately noticeable change that makes a real “difference” to people’s lives.

    41. DerekM says:

      She is nothing more than a spokesperson for those hiding in the shadows at Labour branch office Scotland,the advice she is getting is really bad ,if she had any sense she would get away from them ASAP.

      They will hang her out to dry just like all the rest before her as in the Labour party spin merchants never get sacked its only the leaders,makes you wonder just who is in control.

    42. crazycat says:

      @ Macart

      Sorry! I should have realized – it’s some comfort that Cameron made the same mistake. Sarcasm is quite tricky though – a fine balance between too obvious and too subtle.

    43. Davy says:

      Does the Daily Rat actually think no-one notices when they lie their earse off, we have had about 15 years of devolution I believe most people know even generally what powers we have in Scotland.

      And if deputy dug does not see the writing on the wall for labour under its present form, please get that woman a guide dog and a white stick.

      Anywhere else in the world a political party would want to represent its own country fully, only the unionist partys in Scotland want to cling to the underbellys of their masters in London and settle for sooking the sweat aff their drawers.

      What a bunch of totally gutless earse wipes, none of them prepared to stand up for themselves or there country. Red tories, blue tories & yellow tories nought but tractors and quizmasters. (sorry sookmasters)

    44. mealer says:

      Kezia listened very carefully to Stewart Hosie.”Very carefully indeed”.Yet she still didn’t hear what he said.I think that is her problem.She thinks she’s right when she’s wrong.She thinks she’s speaking sense when she’s actually havering shite.I wouldn’t describe her as a liar,nor would I describe her as stupid.Shes simply in the wrong job.

    45. Davy says:

      I think they’re reluctant to give us more powers at once, until Swiney learns how to utilise the ones the SNP have. So perhaps we should start to show the Jocks that we can manage the country and we are not incompetent fools as it appears.

    46. CameronB Brodie says:

      Britain in the 19th century, was a boiling cauldron of social unrest. The Establishment were feart the same would happen to them as had just happened to the French aristocracy, so they institutionalised Britain’s rigid social class system. The British Labour party was born as a ‘controled opposition’ representing the proletariat and to provide a mechanism by which to mobilise the masses to ‘One Nation’ patriotism. The Establishment made great efforts to encourage popular support for socialism and the rest, as they say, is history.

    47. heedtracker says:

      Davy says:
      26 October, 2015 at 1:11 pm
      I think they’re reluctant to give us more powers at once, until Swiney learns how to utilise the ones the SNP have. So perhaps we should start to show the Jocks that we can manage the country and we are not incompetent fools as it appears.

      Well fine but vote NO for devo-max federal UK didn’t mean anything, clearly.

      Now we have to listen to attack UKOK propaganda via BBC telling us even bigger whoppers than they did last year.

    48. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. That is “English socialism” as once described by an insider.

    49. Anagach says:

      I think your being unduly harsh Stu.

      Its a form of speech, not all powers delivered at the same time, just phrased that way to sound impressive (misleading?).

      So Kezia is really scoring as high as 0.5 out of 2 which is pretty good going.

    50. heedtracker says:

      Davy says:
      26 October, 2015 at 1:11 pm
      I think they’re reluctant to give us more powers at once, until Swiney learns how to utilise the ones the SNP have. So perhaps we should start to show the Jocks that we can manage the country and we are not incompetent fools as it appears.

      So taxes rise in Scotland to pay for Tory austerity like tax credit cuts in Scotland but what will it do to the Scottish economy, neighbouring a lower tax England?

      Then UK.gov continues to syphon away all other tax revenue from Scotland and invest in England, road and rail, war, Trident 2, revenue from NOT Scots oil and gas and NOT scotch whisky etc?

      All dudes like Prof Tomkinski, Ljubjana West, have done is take their The Vow fraud and turn into it into a brutal red and blue Tory weapon to help take down SNP Scots.gov and end Scotland’s progress to independence. From now, it’s all you’ll hear and see from UKOK BBC etc.

      Personally I’m not sure Scottish voters voting for their The Vow voted for Prof Tomkins cunning plan but there are ofcourse lots of hard core red and blue Tory unionists desperate for anything to get SLab back in next year.

    51. Grouse Beater says:

      * “What we’ve got here is failure to communicate”: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-2eU

      * Cool Hand Luke (1967)

    52. galamcennalath says:

      Davy says:
      “we can manage the country”

      That is the absolute last thing WM wants the Scottish Goverment to show!

      Success proves WM is totally redundant.

      What WM are doing is setting up a poisoned chalice to discredit the SG.

    53. nodrog says:

      As I have said before why are we wasting our time talking about a Dodo? Labour are extinct in Scotland and will not return. Let us concentrate on progress towards INDEPENDENCE. Those labour party members and activists who still want to be involved in politics in Scotland will have to join the SNP. I hope our vetting system is pretty robust!!

    54. Lollysmum says:

      Yes she is very aware!

      Why should scots have to pay twice through their taxes? They already pay for healthcare etc through their National Insurance contributions but according to the unionist parties, Scotgov should raise taxes even more to pay for the same services again.

      Personally, I see this as being a test-if Scotgov hikes taxes then they will see this as being given the green light to do the same in the rest of UK-using the excuse that we have to have parity throughout the whole of UK. Don’t fall for it.

      Getting sick of this idiot Kezia pushing an increase of tax on higher earners. She knows full well that if you increase the top rate the lower rates have to be increased by the same percentage rate. So a very small amount of tax raised at the top but pushing lower bands even further into the mire particularly when you factor in the tax credit cuts.

      Result-many more people using foodbanks. The cut in tax credits alone will affect contributions to foodbanks as more people find they just cannot afford to contribute anymore.

      SLab aka Disingenuous-R-Us

      Anyone letting this woman anywhere near the levers of power or even a budget needs their bumps felt.

    55. heedtracker says:

      I hope our vetting system is pretty robust!

      It isn’t. They let me in:D

    56. DerekM says:

      @ Davy

      Reluctant is a bit of an understatement Davy,absolutlyfuckingterrified is more like it.

      They know damn fine that Scotland is very wealthy and has untapped renewable power to make it even wealthier.

      But none of this will happen Davy ,what will happen is an asset strip of Scotland ,thousands made unemployed,a continued assault on pay rates,more foodbanks,sanctions increased ,the SNP being forced to raise income tax to cover it all using the new power as their budget is slashed as the onions all point the finger and complain without having a single idea between them.

      All of this to the detriment of you me and everybody else in Scotland all in an attempt to make the SNP look bad.

      But you see the one thing they have overlooked is that we are not the SNP and what they witnessed during the GE was the yes movement backing the SNP,we havnt gone away we are just having a wee breather while our opponent make a complete arse out themselves 🙂

    57. Christian Schmidt says:

      Some politician once said ‘When you need to explain, you lose’.

      The problem with all these Labour statements is that even at their most charitable they are only correct if you assume a long list of special conditions and assumptions.

      The unionist cheerleaders may have accepted all these so that no explanation is asked for or requested, but most normal people would require an explanation, in which case see above.

      Or to mix metaphors, if the points you make constantly fail to pass the smell test, stop digging.

    58. Macart says:

      @Lollysmum

      Och, the thing has bear trap written all over it and always did. As for those halfwits in the opposition parties constantly asking about offsetting or mitigating central government policy? They’re supposing of course that folk can’t see the major logic fail in the question.

      Primarily, if a central government is so fecking brilliant and doing its job, pooling and sharing, spreading better togetherness, that linda thing. Just why should a devolved administration have to offset any damn thing? Why would a devolved administration have to go cap in hand, begging for fiscal levers if the devolution settlement is fair and equitable? Oh and lest we forget, why would there be a need for a Scotland Office (UK government for Scotland) with carte blanche to exercise a veto on Scottish Government requests or proposals?

      Mind you, I don’t suppose they are used to folk countering their soundbites with simple logic before now.

    59. Thepnr says:

      I don’t know what is going on with Labour. I can only guess that they are still being advised by clones of McTernan.

      The latest wheeze:

      “Labour Together is the new unity project open to everyone in our party. It’s for supporters of any of the leadership candidates, for people who know that what unites us is bigger than what divides us, and who want us to come together to win so we can change our country for good.”

      https://archive.is/F8H4X

    60. Big Jock says:

      Why does she insist on doing the Tory governments propaganda for them. Surely she should be saying we want the Vow, we want more powers. That’s what we told people to vote for.

      I have said this before! In Scotland there is the SNP and then there is the opposition. We live in a two party state. The SNP and AN OTHER!

    61. Lesley-Anne says:

      For what I am about to say may you be truly and eternally grateful that I am not now, nor will I ever be, First Minister of Scotland! 😀

    62. yesindyref2 says:

      Bearing in mind that many of the current Labour MSPs have only been in Holyrood since the SNP were the Government from 2007, and have been the opposition with such intelligent questions as “who is Michelle Thomson” as their quota of 8 FMQ questions each week:

      Do Labour actually know that schools, hospitals, transport, policing, justice, and housing are, in fact, already devolved?

    63. Andrew McLean says:

      Big Jock

      This Vow you speak of, is this the “THE VOW DELIVERED” I have heard so much about, or is it the Vow that’s two weeks away, from whenever you start the date. Or is it the Dutch term meaning “left town, destination unknown” (Vertrokken onbekend waarheen) Or perhaps we need to go to roman times, as the Roman usage of vow (votum),was the exception, not the rule;
      put the two together and we get the no rule, left town, exemption destination unknown!
      Now it makes sense, as Gordon brown is as much use now as a Latin speaking Dutch cap!

    64. mogabee says:

      Labour constantly talk of “being radical”, and that the SNP are not “radical” enough.

      A page with one column Scottish and the other UK and I would suggest that the Scottish gov. have indeed been radical.

      It’s the repetition that they rely on, not the truth.

    65. Garrion says:

      My concern is that this is another set up for the “SNP can’t govern, come back to the natural party of Scotland” trope that some shiny consultant has come up with. They will, once these non-powers are bestowed, come after the SNP hard, regardless of facts and the truth.

    66. Lesley-Anne says:

      On a Benefits related topic here.

      I think today could turn out to be quite a defining moment, in terms of Benefits within the U.K. and the Tory proposed cuts to them.

      The House of elderly, nearly dead, dead, earse kissers and money for old ropers is debating at some point today the Benefit cuts pushed through by the Tories in the House of Commons last week.

      There were rumours last week that they, HoL, would vote against the cuts, which they can do as a result of having more members NOT aligned with the Tory whip than the Tories do. A second rumour was doing the rounds that the Lib Dems, whoever they are 😉 , are to lay down a “fatal motion” which would kill off the whole Tory Benefits bill completely … apparently. 🙂

      Hambone has apparently made two threats to the HoL in terms of their signalling their intention to vote against his Benefits bill.

      1) Hambone has threatened to close down the HoL for a while. I’m not sure how he goes about that nor how long he can do it for but it could be fun to watch him try it.

      2) He has threatened to push in yet another load of 150 new *ahem* Lords into the HoL … BORING! The Hol which currently has 806, yes you read that right 806 *cough* Lords in it will then have the amazing total of OVER 950 *cough* dead heids in it.

      Now I’m only the village idiot around these parts but surely either action by Hambone will surely push Westminster towards breaking point … constitutionally, not that there is such a thing as a written constitution but you get my drift … I hope. 😉

      More over it will result in the Scottish government moving ever closer itself to calling for a second referendum would it not? 😉

    67. Free Scotland says:

      I hope all of the “once-labour-always-labour” brigade are paying attention. These are the words of the woman who leads the Scottish branch of the party which has been reduced to carping from the sidelines.

    68. galamcennalath says:

      @Lesley-Anne

      UKOK politics and the perverse way it operates can turn up some really odd situations.

      I hate the undemocratic first past the post system. But, who ever thought it would work so favourably for Scotland by letting 56 SNP get elected?!

      Just as awful and undemocratic is the HoL. Who would have expected to see the day we would be cheering them on for hopefully killing one of Cameron’s poor-bashing pieces of legislation!?

      I have little doubt the Union, and the archaic system it represents, will play a big part in its own downfall sooner than later.

    69. Davy says:

      @DerekM 2.04

      All that sounds like is an excuse for Scotland going down the u bend if the SNP keep control.

      Another thing, everyone seems to believe Scotland voted NO because of the vows. The reason we voted No was because the SNP were not good enough. Vows had nothing to do with it. Thats just a propaganda outburst to appease the nats.

      If Scotland can show they can look after the bucks and get a grip on normal affairs, instead of pushing indy 2, then mibbe you can scrape a YES.

      BTW, filling Scotland with asylum seekers is really going to backfire. We can’t afford it.

    70. Andrew McLean says:

      O/T

      “Peers have greeted the introduction of the first woman bishop in the House of Lords with a very rare round of applause. As a new peer or bishop takes their seat for the first time, it is customary for the House to murmur its approval. As with MPs in the Commons, it is not the custom for peers to applaud.”

      I await with bated breath, the howls of embarrassment and derision heaped on these lordy types and their absolute ignorance of UKOK ways, really they are an embarrassment, fur fuck sake clapping in the house, I blame the SNP see what happens when you let that rabbel in!

    71. yesindyref2 says:

      On the subject of benefits, Osborne is the pig.

    72. Andrew McLean says:

      O/T
      “Professor Vernon Bogdanor, who was David Cameron’s tutor at Oxford, has told the BBC that this a “very serious clash” between the two Houses that can only resolved by enshrining into law the centuries-old convention that the elected chamber has total supremacy over financial matters. These rules date back to the end of the seventeenth century and they say that the House of Commons has exclusive financial privilege – that is the House of Lords should not interfere with the financial privilege of the Commons or the power of the government. And this is based on a very fundamental principle , no taxation without representation. It’s only the representative chamber that should decide on matters of taxation.

      Ok so you would agree that EVEL is evil? or in your world it will not matter if you refer to the exclusion of Scottish MP,s?

    73. chris kilby says:

      Poor Kez. She really is quite astonishingly dim, isn’t she?

    74. Ruby says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06jt330

      Kezia in London today. Her mentor Zebedee on the same show.

    75. willie says:

      The woman I am afraid is a barefaced liar who is treating the electorate like morons.
      The woman has learned nothing and her contempt for the electorate is astounding.
      Let’s root this excrement out come May. Time the byre was cleaned of the tenants of this foul party.

    76. Lesley-Anne says:

      I think galamcennalath that before last May we could all say, with a certain degree of certainty that British politics was boring.

      However, since May the idea that British politics is boring has flown out the window, hopefully never to return. The arrival of the FAMOUS 56 has shaken Westminster to its core, in my view.

      Up till now WM has treated Scotland and her people with nothing short of utter contempt. They can no longer do that. As a direct result of the FAMOUS 56 arriving in WM there are loads more people actually watching Parliament T.V. to see just what exactly goes on and more importantly what the 56 do and how they are treated.

      Let’s just say that the people of Scotland are much less impressed with the behaviour of the RED and BLUE Tories than they have ever been before.

      Hambone may have thought that he could keep the 56 quiet in WM. However, he forgot about the 5.5 Million people in Scotland. WE are watching … WE do NOT like how OUR M.P.’s are being treated … WE will have our say whether HE likes it or not!

      I do agree with you about the HoL galamcennalath and the idea that the thought of US cheering on the HoL was just a fantasy dream the odd individual may have had in the past. Today however I think we are all cheering them on to do the “right thing” and vote out Hambone’s disgusting attack on the low paid, disable, elderly, etc.

      Whoever said British politics is boring never saw THIS particular train coming down the tracks. 😀

    77. yesindyref2 says:

      @Andrew McLean
      (Bogdanor): “no taxation without representation”

      Cameron: “EVEL”.

    78. Ruby says:

      Ignore the link to Kezia on radio 2 unless you want a laugh!

      @52:28 Judy Martin from Aberdeenshire is a big fan!

    79. Rock says:

      What sort of people still vote Labour in Scotland?

      They must be the most stupid people on earth.

    80. Alastair says:

      Romour has it Gordon Brown it to intervene and offer the House of Lords a Vow.

    81. Giving Goose says:

      Big Jock;

      It can be broken down to a more simplified equation;

      You have a Pro Scotland side = SNP, SSP, some Greens etc

      And an Anti Scotland side = Labour, Tories, LibDems BBC etc

    82. arthur thomson says:

      My reading of what Kezia has said is that the ‘Scottish Labour Party’ will be given carte blanche in determining Labour policy on devolved matters. Where reserved matters arise and there is clearly no difference in opinion between the prevailing opinions in Scotland and rUK Slab will be able to promote that view as their own. All other matters will be decided in London.

      No change, just a lot of talk about nothing to keep them in the news.

    83. Lesley-Anne says:

      Jeez!

      You are so right there Ruby. 😀

      Talk about an air brain … ach dinnae worry her wee broon envelope is winging its way up to Aberdeen as we speak! 😀

    84. Rock says:

      Dugdale, Davidson and Rennie think that the Scottish parliament is a theatre where they can display their dramas and shed crocodile tears.

      They don’t give a damn about the people of Scotland.

    85. Lesley-Anne says:

      Alastair says:
      26 October, 2015 at 4:10 pm

      Romour has it Gordon Brown it to intervene and offer the House of Lords a Vow.

      That will be a gold plated ermine trimmed vow delivered on a down filled cushion of course won’t it Alastair? 😀

    86. Petra says:

      Tony thanks for the list (at 12:38pm). This is the type of data that newspapers such as the Daily Record should be publishing instead of continuing to try to dupe the Scots with their attempts to convince us all that the Vow has been (is in the processing of being) fulfilled / delivered.

      Kezia Dugadale, friend of Gordon Brown, colleague of Clegg and Chrichton ….. employee of the Daily Record, is absolutely complicit in perpetuating their deception / s just as she was when they lied to and tried to manipulate the Scots day and daily leading up to the Referendum (hundreds of examples on record).

      She should forget about pushing the Alice in Wonderland ‘autonomy’ fantasy farce and focus on just telling the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth, so help me God (how easy would that be for her to do?). The truth being that Westminster is attempting to hand Holyrood a poisoned chalice … a rising welfare bill with no economic levers to deal with it other than raising taxes ……. which will ultimately impact negatively on all Scots.

      She knows this but the name of the game for her is that anything goes ….. anything that will see the SNP struggle to deal with this minefield and in the process, hopefully, (for her and her Party) lose their credibility and popularity. The price of her duplicity and mean mindedness is that there is the potential of seeing Scotland and the Scots (children in the main) really suffer, more so than they do at present, and go right down the stank. If she really cared for us and her country, rather than her ego and bank balance, she would move forward with respect and work constructively with the SNP in the best interests of Scotland rather than sacrifice us.

      Labour had nearly a hundred years to do something for the Scots but did nought. They could have pushed for Devomax over many years prior to the Referendum but didn’t. Following the Referendum they could have pushed for greater powers for Scotland through the Smith Commission but demanded the least of all (less than the Tories or Libdems). They’ve been found to be wanting from day one with their commitment to Westminster at the expense of the Scots (Wilson and McCrone, Dewar and Stolen Seas, Blair and War and Brown the economy …. to name but a few). And so it continues.

      Why is Kezia Dugdale and newspapers such as the Daily Record not informing the Scots that their Parliament is not permanent, on key issues such as that broadcasting hasn’t been devolved (the importance of that) and that Westminster will still have control of approximately 70% of Taxes and 80% of Welfare?

      How does that relate to Gordon Brown’s promises prior to the Referendum of Home Rule for Scotland or for Scotland being as ‘close to a Federal State’?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwfvL4jQVDA

      Additionally as outlined in the Daily Record on the 24th September 2014:

      “Gordon Brown said: ‘The plan for a stronger Scottish Parliament we seek agreement on is for nothing short of a modern form of Scottish home rule within the UK’.

      “He is also quoted as saying: ‘We are going to be, within a year or two, as close to a federal state as you can be in a country where one nation is 85 per cent of the population’ ………………..

      “I think it sets an important benchmark of the type of level of agreement that has to be secured if there is to be a faithful commitment delivered to those who, in good faith, voted No on the expectation that additional significant powers were to be devolved to the Scottish Parliament.”

      Gordon Brown, Kezia Dugdale and the Daily Record, part of the massive UK propaganda machine, have essentially deceived many Scots, especially those ‘who in good faith voted No’, and continue to attempt to do so. Kezia could have been forgiven for the former (?) but never the latter.

      If she doesn’t experience some kind of epiphany soon she’ll lose the last of her dwindling number of supporters and be remembered as the Leader who stood with the shovel at the side of the abyss and buried the Labour Party in Scotland ….. never to be resurrected.

    87. Albaman says:

      Stew, We all knew it was libel to happen, and so it starts, they are crawling back out of the woodwork , as reported dy The Courier, Thomas Docherty intends to stand for the Scottish Parliment , and the paper indicates that Anas Sarwar is thinking of also standing,
      Jesus!, what do these fellows not understand when the public kicked thier erases out of politics!.

    88. Bill Fraser says:

      It seems the girl is improving.Well let’s face it she couldn’t get much worse Even half a comment correct by her standard is pretty good.

    89. Just been given this so will take me some time to get through it. I thought I’d post it though and give all of you an opportunity to read and make of it what you will. More who read and comment the more accurate it will be.

      http://www.electricscotland.com/independence/scotlandun.htm

    90. Taranaich says:

      Devil’s Advocate: perhaps Ms Dugdale is just unclear. When she said:

      “When the major new powers are transferred to Holyrood, the Scottish Parliament will be responsible for decisions about our schools, hospitals, transport, policing, justice and housing, as well as setting income tax rates and developing our own social security system.”

      She really meant:

      “When the major new powers are transferred to Holyrood, the Scottish Parliament will be responsible (not only) for decisions about our schools, hospitals, transport, policing, justice and housing (which we currently enjoy), as well as (but now also) setting income tax rates (fully without restrictions) and developing our own social security system (of diverting money from elsewhere to fund benefits).”

      She’s surely already well aware that the Scottish Parliament has been responsible for decisions about our schools, hospitals, transport, policing, justice and housing since 1999, to complement the NHS which has been independent since its formation, and the education & legal systems which have been independent for centuries.

      It simply wouldn’t make sense for her to state such bald, outright inaccuracies considering her party continues to flounder even being out of power from 5 (soon to be 10) years in Westminster and at least 8 years in Holyrood, even though they constantly say both governments have been devastating to Scotland.

      I’m sure it was just poorly worded. Hanlon’s Razor and all that…

    91. Dr Jim says:

      The SNP are rubbish

      Ferry prices have been reduced for all Cal Mac journeys to our Wee Scottish Islands today….. beep beep beep beep

      Aye SNP definitely rubbish

      Tune in tomorrow for more rubbish Scottish Government announcements

    92. farthnorthdavie says:

      @Phil Robertson
      12:07pm

      I am fully aware Stu can answer for himself but as he has not so far I will comment.

      You state that Stu has “difficulty with comprehension of English.” and then later state-

      “You further undermine your argument by equating 72% with “almost all”. For rational thinkers, it is slightly less than three-quarters.”

      I am sorry but you seem to lack the ability to carry enough detail to comprehend what was actually said in Stu’s article, let me try to help you.

      The reference to 72% is contained in this phrase “Just two of the benefits that will remain reserved account BY THEMSELVES (my capitals) for almost 72% of the total welfare budget” then the “almost all” phrase is here “Almost all of welfare, including pensions and Universal Credit, remains reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Bill 2015…”

      In the third last paragraph of Stu’s article he states “(In fact Scottish Government calculations put the proportion of welfare actually coming under Holyrood’s control at just 15%.)”

      Now that third last paragraph is where Stu “equates” a percentage with “almost all” and that percentage remaining under Westminster control is, by my calculation, 85% (100%-15%). Which to any comprehending rational thinker is a lot more than three-quarters, to use your yardstick.

    93. Dan Huil says:

      The bbc will still regurgitate Dugdale’s claims as though they are gospel.

    94. Thepnr says:

      @farthnorthdavie

      SLAP!

      Phils cheeks must be stinging 😉

    95. Clootie says:

      Kezia is not a leader, not even of an accounting unit. She is a puppet being manipulated by the remains of “new Labour” unionists. I would feel sorry for her BUT for the damage she attempts to inflict on her fellow Scots by misleading them with a string of lies

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hVNjU2NhDDI

    96. Cuilean says:

      ‘Justice’ or the Scots legal system was retained by Scotland after 1707 & never devolved to UK remit.

      Of course the peculiarly Scots justice system has been chipped away at, by unionists over the years, with the latest wheeze, the supreme court, diluting Scots law still further.

    97. AlbertaScot says:

      O/T but interesting none the less.

      I’ve just finished reading Scottish Field on my library PressReader (Conkers total crap as usual) and there’s an interesting piece linking the St. Andrew’s rail line restoration with Tata.

      I know it’s only five miles so that’s not a heck of a lot of steel but could that be the solution to the Motherwell Conundrum.

      At least for a little while which is what Nik needs to get her through the election.

      Just wondering.

    98. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tony Little
      Great list Tony.

      Basically speaking Dugdale would be advised to seek information from WOS, rather than wherever else she gets it.

    99. yesindyref2 says:

      @AlbertaScot
      Maybe Jim McColl will step up to the plate (excuse the pun) with the £97 million contract for 2 new ferries to be built by Fergusons, announced at the conference in Aberdeen.

    100. Rock says:

      Cuilean,

      “Of course the peculiarly Scots justice system has been chipped away at, by unionists over the years, with the latest wheeze, the supreme court, diluting Scots law still further.”

      Retained or nor, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core.

    101. Macart says:

      @Petra

      That is the key to politics as it is practiced in the UK. What the politician or party is willing to sacrifice in the name of electoral success?

      In today’s arena we actually have an MP in court defending his lies and manipulation on the basis that this is how politics works. That its all part of the game.

      I’m sure that the average politico would defend these actions by stating that the end justifies the means, that in their efforts to secure their vision of the public good it is necessary to lie, mislead, misinform, manipulate and otherwise direct public opinion.

      So then sacrifice.

      What exactly have they sacrificed? In too many instances our welfare. More commonly truth, ethical practices and most importantly our trust. They literally, through their strategies, make us lose trust in our institutions, our governance and only recently as we have seen, trust in ourselves.

      In pursuit of electoral success, they undermine our faith and trust in each other, our communities and ultimately our ability to manage our own affairs. They sow dissension deliberately as a means to an end.

      In short, they are beneath contempt.

    102. AlbertaScot says:

      Like the Parking Garage Guy in All the President’s Men said:

      “Ya gotta follow the money.”

      All that devolve fluff Kezzie is spouting is just crap.

      Everything but hiring (hello Fat Blair) and cash is being
      Scottishized, she sez.

      Like there’s going to be a block grant or something written by Labour London Calling. No strings attached, no pre-conditions.

      And if you believe that I’ve got this big red bridge at South Queensferry you may be interest in.

      I can get it for you real cheap.

    103. Ruby says:

      There is one thing I find interesting about Kezia and that is where does she get her self-belief from. Obviously Kezia herself thinks she’s just the ticket to be Leader of British Labour in Scotland just the woman to sort out Labour’s problems.

      Is this complete arrogance on her part or some kind of psychosis.

      At the start of the Jeremy vine show today they asked

      ‘Who would want the hardest job in politics?
      Today we meet Kezia Dugdale.’

    104. Lesley-Anne says:

      Easy to see this Bampot Earl Howe, Deputy leader of HoL, is completely out of touch with reality and has just beamed in from an alternate universe!

    105. Jim says:

      Macart says:
      26 October, 2015 at 11:53 am

      Oh, it’s getting embarrassing now.

      Imagine the branch manager being unaware of just what powers were already available.
      __________
      Imagine if you will that the branch manager knows exactly what she is lying about.

      Pretending that Labour helped secure Health, education and Policing as part of these so-called ‘major new powers’, would embolden a lot of no voters who are perhaps unaware of the powers the Scottish Government already has, to stick with the Union and not be tempted by the thought of Independence.

      We can all have a laugh at the apparent ineptitude of Kezia Dugdale but I advice caution as all I can see in these press releases is a relentless stream of propaganda designed to keep the no voters in check.

      Again, pretending that the Scottish Government is getting powers it already has may stiffen the resolve of the no voter!

    106. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, I think Scottish Labour’s motto is:

      “‘Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on you’

      or is it:

      ‘Fool you once, shame on you; fool you twice, good for you’

    107. @JamesCaithness

      I wish people would stop peddling that story as has been debunked more times than Labour have had leaders.

      There is no evidence for this on the Europe website.

    108. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh look, the elderly, nearly dead, dead, earse kissers and money for old ropers on a sesame seed bun are actually voting now on their amendments.

    109. Ruby says:

      Jim

      It’s something worth thinking about!

      I would think the people who are reading the ‘propaganda’ will be semi-knowledgeable about the workings of Holyrood/devolution.

      Those who could be influenced by the attempted con will not be reading anything about politics unless it’s a big headline in the Daily Record.

      The downside of claiming health, education & policing are new powers is that they will not be able to claim SNP record on health education & policing BAAAD!

      I reckon Kezia is just no right in the head!

    110. yesindyref2 says:

      I just switched over in time to hear some vote in the HoL.

      I could swear I heard someone shout “House”.

    111. Angra Mainyu says:

      This is officially my first criticism of wings… apologies for what follows but it’s meant constructively.

      Right now we are in the middle of a tornado with a multitude of things unfolding at once. We have the cuts to Working Tax Credit, EVEL which effectively degrades the potential role of Scottish MPs in terms of offices they can hold and a pile of other negatives, we have the Trident budget escalating, Labour’s nonsensical moves towards a federalist structure, and it seems that nobody is presenting the big picture. We are all focused on the details of each individual issue.

      The big picture goes something like this: the Scottish people don’t want Trident yet it is being forced down our throats; the Scottish people don’t want welfare cuts yet they are being forced down our throats by a Tory party that not only promised not to impose them but which has no mandate to govern here at all.

      Labour are in a state of collapse and unable to provide any sort of meaningful response to any of this — they told us we could resolve all the problems we had within the Union yet Scotland has never been so exposed to Tory cruelty.

      The SNP aren’t saying a thing about all this really and nobody amongst them is putting it all together in a coherent statement — none of these problems would exist for Scotland if we were independent. Why isn’t anyone drumming that message home.

      And meanwhile, in the background, our oil and steel industries are being left to wither and die — an independent Scotland could help alleviate their suffering and ensure their survival.

      We shouldn’t be distracted with their crap about the Scottish NHS. We should be leading with our strong cards instead of responding to their crap.

      Wings and Rev, I hold you in the highest regard, but you need a big picture story that holds out some hope to those many thousands who right now are surfing the web looking for some sort of explanation. It’s a huge opportunity to convert opinion.

      (apologies if the above is a little rough at the edges with bad spelling etc., I’m in a frenzied rush.. I’m sure you get the idea)

    112. yesindyref2 says:

      Good Lord, they’re moving so fast we’ll probably have the result of the vote by November.

    113. Robert Kerr says:

      @AlbertaScot .

      Sorry the Dalziel works rolled plate steel. Railway rails were rolled at BSC Workington. Now closed.

      I don’t think any mill in the UK can roll rail sections.

      HS2 shall need Spanish or Ukrainian or more likely Chinese steel.

      Strategic thinking by WM once again

    114. One_Scot says:

      How she thinks she can get away with spouting shit like the is beyond belief.

      Oh sorry, I keep forgetting, she has unionist media protection.

    115. Lesley-Anne says:

      The elderly, nearly dead, dead, earse kissers and money for old ropers on a sesame seed bun have voted on their first ammendment… eventually!

      The Contents 99
      The Not Contents 310

      They are now voting on a second ammendment!

    116. heedtracker says:

      “Cameron lied about tax credits to win the general election, peers told – Politics live
      Rolling coverage of all the day’s political developments as they happen, including the Lords debate and vote on the tax credit cuts”

      Rancid The Graun on toryboy world right now and now they know its like for YES and undecideds in Scotland.

      Pointless watching red tory BBC Scotland for actual news but also caught wee Lord George Robertson on C4 news reportage there, kicked out of Scotland, job for life at the trough.

      Hope to see just how powerful Lords really is tonight, but no sign of Lady Mone of Mayfair and Lord Flipper of Park Lane. UKOK democracy, strength, power, safeness.

    117. Ruby says:

      Angra Mainyu

      I think it could be a good idea to let people see how things are unfolding and give them time to come to their own conclusions or at least start seeking alternative answers.

      ‘When the student is ready the teacher will appear’

      Being that a referendum is not as yet on the cards there is no rush to convert opinion.

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      I see the HoL has an in-built bias for a vote.

      The contents make their way to the throne (?) and the not contents make their way to the bar.

      I wonder …

    119. AlbertaScot says:

      @Robert Kerr

      Unbelievable. And kinda scary.

      When you no longer have the capacity to manufacture a strategic product like steel rails says a lot about a country. Don’t it.

    120. heedtracker says:

      Nicola Sturgeon ?@NicolaSturgeon 5m5 minutes ago
      I’m no fan of the House of Lords but, if you are a Labour peer, why would you abstain in a vote to stop tax credit cuts?
      279 retweets 183 favorites

      For exact same reasons Kezia’s bullshitting for UKOK here, they’re the red tory party.

      Surprised Nic didn’t pick up on that.

    121. Jim says:

      Ruby says:
      26 October, 2015 at 7:09 pm

      Jim

      It’s something worth thinking about!

      I would think the people who are reading the ‘propaganda’ will be semi-knowledgeable about the workings of Holyrood/devolution.

      Those who could be influenced by the attempted con will not be reading anything about politics unless it’s a big headline in the Daily Record.
      ___________
      I would like to believe that but going by the conversations I have had; although there has definitely been an upsurge in people taking an interest in politics during and after the referendum, a lot of people are still clinging to the propaganda of the MSN as if it is the gospel truth.

      Drip feeding them lies now and again just hardens their resolve to hate the SNP and the very idea of their country ever becoming an independent nation.

      “The downside of claiming health, education & policing are new powers is that they will not be able to claim SNP record on health education & policing BAAAD!2
      _____________
      ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’.

      “I reckon Kezia is just no right in the head!”
      _____________

      Probably batshit crazy

    122. AlbertaScot says:

      Re: House of Lords vote.

      First time on tellie for years and only 409 in the room.

      So what happened to the rest of them?

      Or is that a stupid question.

    123. john king says:

      Effigy says
      “Her social worker, McTernan, must have signed it off for her. They work together like Keith Harris & Orville.”

      What?
      yada yada yada
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlIuHUp4EB0

    124. Lesley-Anne says:

      I notice the folk who do the heid count in the HoL walk about with wee pointy white stick thingys held in their left hand and resting on their left shoulder. I guess the stick thingy is so they can prod the diddery old souls into the right counting house. 😀

      The result of the second amendment, Baroness Meacher, is in.

      The Contents 307

      The Not Contents 277

    125. Alastair says:

      AlbertaScot
      584 Lords voted in the second vote so that cost you and me £204,400 as they debate theiving money off the poorest families in our better together UK.

    126. Ruby says:

      Has Lord Flipper moved to Park Lane? I know Lady Mone has moved to Mayfair. It could be a sign that she believes Scotland will be Independent.

      According to The Herald Lady Mone has dropped the price of her hoose in Throntonhall by £150,000.

      ‘LIBERAL Democrat peer Lord Wallace has suggested plans have been made to keep unelected Scottish peers in the House of Lords in an independent Scotland.

      Mr Wallace, the deputy leader of the Lords, said it would be incorrect to assume Scottish peers would automatically lose their seats in the House if Scotland votes for independence next September.

      He said that if peers who currently resided in Scotland chose to move to other parts of the UK, they could carry on working in the UK Parliament.’

    127. AlbertaScot says:

      @Alistair

      Didn’t cost me dick all, I’m in Canada.

      I’ve got a bunch of troughers called Senators to worry about.

      But I feel your pain.

    128. yesindyref2 says:

      Good grief, if you let that lot loose in the Horseshoe you’d never get a pint, let alone pie chips and beans.

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      In fairness they’ve done the main job with the delay.

      I’m sorry, that must have been the beans.

    130. heedtracker says:

      Ian Murray ? @IanMurrayMP
      We have just won a vote that actually does something. What you are suggesting is the worst type of gesture politics https://twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/658726739682729984
      7:49 PM – 26 Oct 2015
      11 11 Retweets 10 10 favorites

      Future Lord Ian of Bond Street is displeased with any back chat.

      Know your place non Lords troughers.

    131. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Angra Mainyu at 7.11

      Don’t you understand that the SNP speaks out on all these and other issues all the time but MSM doesn’t report.
      That’s the problem,not SNP reticence

    132. yesindyref2 says:

      George Osborne must resign, and take IDS with him.

    133. Robert Louis says:

      So, let me get this right, the Labour party could have tonight voted AGAINST the tory tax credit cuts, but instead abstained.

      Seriously, what is the freaking point of Labour? Jeez, I am sooooo goddam angry at Labour. To make matters worse they are now tweeting that they voted against the tax credit cuts. Labour you are nothing but utter, utter, utter liars.

      Red Tories, every last one of them.

      Please, please, please, independence ASAP.

    134. Ruby says:

      ‘Corbyn for PM ?@Corbyn4nextPM 20m20 minutes ago

      .@NicolaSturgeon you know why Nicola, just a shame your SNP cult following lap up every word you say’

      Just how ignorant are these ‘UKOK Better Together Hate Preachers’ I can’t believe Corbyn tweeted the above.

      I’ve been wondering quite a lot who the ‘SensibleDaves/UniTrolls’ are who post on the Scotsman, Herald etc. Top of my list of suspects are politicians. I’ll bet Jeremy gives it big licks on The Scotsman & Herald.

      What this ignorant ‘UKOK Better Together Hate Preaching Focker’ is saying is that SNP voters/supporters are thick!

    135. yesindyref2 says:

      My quick analysis of this is that the HoL got this exactly right. To vote against the tax credit cuts would have caused a definite consititutional crisis, Lords against Commons, Commons would have filibustered the Bill through and the HoL would have been diminished, unable to achieve anything in future.

      As it is the two Houses will find a way around it, but Osborne is greatly diminished, might not last long as Chancellor, will never be PM, he will pass into the West with the pigs elves, pushed out by the orcs Lords.

      It’s not good for the Tory Government either, decreases their chance in 2020.

      For me, that’s the best outcome in UK politics, though the full-blown Constitutional crisis might have been good for Indy.

    136. heedtracker says:

      Westminster Unionist @WestminsterDUP
      It was ridiculous for Govt to try to send a financial measure thru the Lds dressed up as though it wasn’t, so they could avoid HofC scrutiny
      8:01 PM – 26 Oct 2015
      4 4 Retweets 1 1 favorite

      More confusing stuff from UKOK bullshit machine producer of- UKOK keep saying House of Lords trough doesnt have much power teamGB wise but here we are, near on a thousand unelected for life wingdings have just blocked UK.gov policy.

      Just as well the UK doesn’t have or need a constitution then.

    137. Anagach says:

      Is it really a surprise, they throw a spanner in the works and hope that its not too direct to provoke an outright attack upon themselves, i.e. 250 new Conservative peers.

    138. Ruby says:

      Is anyone able to give me a brief summary of exactly what happened with the working tax-credits?

      ‘Working tax-credits’ is this what used to be called ‘social security’

    139. yesindyref2 says:

      Good, glad te see Sturgeon tweeted in support, albeit grudgingly.

      There’s a lot of danger here for the SNP if they demur in any way, as this is a very astute move by Labour, probably their first one for many years. People in the street will see tax credits delayed, and if they’re affected, then it’s “saved for 3 years”, tomorrow is another day. Meanwhile Middle England can still expect to see tax credit cuts coming for those other scrounging scruffy people, just not yet.

    140. Petra says:

      Whilst Kezia Dugdale’s many ‘botch-ups’and MSM propaganda continue to be an irritation there is a great deal to feel cheerful about.

      The House of Lords is at loggerheads with the House of Commons (Labour and Tory politicians that voted for credit cuts).

      The Labour Party in England is at loggerheads with everyone in the Commons and staff (politicians?) at the Scottish branch office.

      Leader of the Labour Party in England has little in common with / genuine support from his cabinet members or with his manageress at the Scottish branch office.

      The manageress of the Labour branch office in Scotland is at loggerheads with her depute (and others) and has little in common with / the support of most Scots.

      And at this moment in time the Labour, Libdems and Tories in Scotland have changed places and are fighting the bit out not to be known as the Dodo Party (dodo as in extinct not the other or well then again maybe?).

      In other words it looks as though the Union is imploding.

      The debate / vote due in the House of Lords with regard to credit cuts is in no small part due to the great fight / speeches made by the SNP in the Commons. The 56 have gained respect right across the House of Commons and beyond. I hope that the English electorate (especially the poor, disabled, elderly and vulnerable) are therefore aware that we are their friends, not their foes.

      @ Macart says at 6:10 pm ………….. ”I’m sure that the average politico would defend these actions by stating that the end justifies the means, that in their efforts to secure their vision of the public good it is necessary to lie, mislead, misinform, manipulate and otherwise direct public opinion.”

      Spot on Macart and therein lies the dichotomy.

      The latest videos from Chunky Mark.

      George Osborne “Low paid workers MUST pay for the excesses of the rich”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2aKlJX6uic

      OMG!!!! George Osborne involved in massive ‘Shares for Rights’ tax Swindle

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P_xDivVa3g

    141. Macart says:

      @Jim

      See my post at 12.50 😀

      That’s the first and last time I attempt subtle sarcasm. I’m laying it on with a trowel from now on.

      But yes, Ms Dugdale is perfectly aware of Holyrood’s devolved powers. What of course she is hoping, is that not many others do. Our job is to pass on the information that the press won’t. Scotgov can post all the details it likes as can the SNP, but without the aid of the meeja, its up to us anoraks to help get it out there and shoot the bullshit down. 😉

    142. Macart says:

      @Petra

      Cheers for the links Petra. 🙂

    143. yesindyref2 says:

      Uh oh, Cameron’s mistake. He is apparently determined to make it a Constitutional crisis.

      I think he’ll lose, slender majority of 12 and rebels within the party, some Conservatives are actually decent people.

      This is interesting, very interesting. But foolish.

    144. heedtracker says:

      Ruby says:
      26 October, 2015 at 8:22 pm
      Is anyone able to give me a brief summary of exactly what happened with the working tax-credits?

      Its all down to red tory Gordon Brown and Tony Blair. They had a clear choice after 97, raise slave wages or top up slave wages with this benefit.

      Red tories would argue they did both with their minimum wage of approx £3.50 per hour. Both red and blue toryboys say you cant have high slave wages as this puts too much money into the economy, meaning all kinds of inflation probs, they say. Slave wages also hold down pay rises just above them. Red and blue toryboy world like that. Although clearly its made UK one of the most unequal economies in the world but changing that is not what the red tories are about.

      The poor don’t save, so maybe Crash Gordon was right. We had three terms of Gordon, so we will probably never know now. Most Labour dudes are loaded now. Go figure.

    145. yesindyref2 says:

      Osborne on TV. He’s really pissed. And history (I hope). They will deal with the House of Lords problem.

      I think I’m going to have to acquire a proper taste for popcorn.

      Meanwhile the good news is that the Tories merciless attack on those unable to defend ourselves has been halted, at least for the time being. The Victorian workhouse party has been put back in its Tardis and sent back to the Future, tae think again.

    146. r esquierdo says:

      Stop chastising the poor lassie. She has learning difficulties and a nipping waste expulsion pipe hole caused with over expulsion of pure unadulterated tollie.

    147. Robert Louis says:

      The lords rejecting something by a government of the day, is NOT a constitutional crisis. Google ‘parliament act 1911’.

      Prior to 1911, the Lords really did have the power to block Government legislation, but afterwards if the Lords rejected legislation, eventually after multiple readings, the government of the day could invoke the parliament act. It has been used many times. This is not a new problem. This talk of ‘constitutional crisis’ is just utter p*sh.

      The reason the tories are irked by this, is they tried to force these changes through without debate via a statutory instrument. The Lords should have blocked it, as it would have forced the Tories to think again. Instead they have just fudged the issue.

      Can’t believe the number of people falling for Tory spin. Shocked at Labour failing to vote to block the tax credit cuts when given the chance. Red tories, blue tories.

    148. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      All the typing mentioning ‘Labour’ above…

      I’m gonna post here a comment I posted on 22nd June, on the page,

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-truth-about-calmac-short-version/comment-page-1/#comment-2029509

      Here’s what I posted…

      —————————————————-

      I’ve watched the BBC Scotland prog and what stood out for me was that the programme had no interviews with former Labour voters, as to why they were an ex-Labour voters.

      It was entitled, “The Fall Of Labour” but didn’t question the people who caused Labour’s downfall, by switching to the SNP.

      Perchance, the programme makers feared what they would be told, compared to the internal ‘conflicts of interest’, would hang the Labour Party in Scotland out to dry?

      I experienced this on Saturday evening, after the George Square rally. A bunch of us retired to a pub at the entrance to the railway station (The Vale), where, eventually, we were drawn into conversation by a couple of guys, who had been attending a Scottish Amateur Football Association shindig.

      One of them was well merry (he accused Ronnie Anderson of being an intellectual!); the other was a tad more lucid. He said he had been a life-long Labour voter and “it was with a heavy heart” he voted SNP for the first time in the GE. (We didn’t ask how he had voted in the referendum; remiss of us.)

      His reason was that over the past year or three or more, he had seen Labour looking more and more like the Tories, forgetting their roots and taking the voters of Scotland for granted.

      I think Labour is going to have a hard job converting back the 1000’s of voters who came to the same conclusion as that gentleman – who was an official of the Amateur Football League. He went away with a “Red Tories out” sticker and one of our “Bairns Not Bombs” badges (for his daughter).

      Those are the sort of people that the programme should have been eliciting comments from – not the party mandarins who filled the show, with their ‘Look at me! I’m important in the scheme of things!’.
      ————————————————–

      Labour in Scotland have broken the link with their core support. That core support now sees the SNP as the party that will look out for them.

      The SNP, by return, have to realise that a lot of their support are disenfranchised Labour voters, and act accordingly.

    149. Petra says:

      @ Angra Mainyu says at 7:11 pm

      Thanks for your post and yes I agree with you wholeheartedly that there is so much going on to the detriment of Scotland such as ”cuts to Working Tax Credit, EVEL which effectively degrades the potential role of Scottish MPs in terms of offices they can hold and a pile of other negatives, we have the Trident budget escalating, Labour’s nonsensical moves towards a federalist structure …..

      And then you say that ”it seems that nobody is presenting the big picture. We are all focused on the details of each individual issue.” .. ”The SNP aren’t saying a thing about all this really and nobody amongst them is putting it all together in a coherent statement — none of these problems would exist for Scotland if we were independent. Why isn’t anyone drumming that message home.”

      I’ve read through your post Angra Mainyu and would say that all of these issues have been covered on here over and over again and that the SNP at Holyrood and Westminster have covered all of these issues (and more) too.

      The problem that we are dealing with is that the MSM, in the main, don’t want to publish the truth with regard to anything that you (and others) have to say. All we can do is find a means of getting the truth across, such as on this site, and standing together to fight for our Independence.

    150. Macart says:

      @Yesindyref2

      Just catching up on this dads. Looks like there’s a shit storm brewing in Westminster. Now we’ll see if DC and Gideon are up to taking on the Lords and lighting the blue touch paper on the UKs unwritten constitution.

      Interesting times right enough.

    151. mealer says:

      The Bullingdon boys will continue to persecute the poor,the weak and the vulnerable.Thats what they do.This thing with the Lords is a minor hiccup.Ruth Davidson,Alex Johnstone,Murdo Fraser etc are on their side.

    152. Ruby says:

      Nobody has given me a brief summary of what’s going on with the ‘working tax credits’

      Is it the case that way back Labour wanted to get single mothers off the dole and into work and when single mothers said they would be worse off in work Labour said no you won’t because we will continue to pay you dole money but we will call it ‘working tax credits’. Working tax credits sounds much better than ‘social security’

      All the single mothers having been given very little choice take up the offer of work where their employer will pay them a pittance which will be topped up by some dole money. That reduced the social security bill for single mothers but unfortunately the jobs the single mothers were taking would normally have gone to school leavers. So now school leavers have no work but then they don’t get any dole so as far as the gov goes all is well.

      George Osborne decides there should be no more dole for single mothers so he decides that has to end. So single mothers are back to where they started being worse off in work.

      The bill passes in parliament but Lords say here is our chance to prove that we are not just total scroungers we’ll prove to the taxpayer that we deserve our £300 a day working tax credits. We’ll oppose this mental idea of cutting the dole for people in work.

      Have I got it right?

    153. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The reason we voted No was because the SNP were not good enough.”

      Well then you’re a bunch of fucking idiots, because you didn’t have to vote SNP in an independent Scotland.

    154. Ruby says:

      heedtracker

      Cheers sorry I didn’t see your summary before complaining about lack of summary.

      It’s all a bit too complicated for me. I wish the UK Gov would just do away will all benefits then we could see what’s what.

      We could see the true state of the UK and then decide what should be done.

      People would probably have to sleep in the street or in tin shacks unless they were able to earn enough to pay rent.

      The ones who couldn’t find work would just have to go to the soup kitchen to get food.

      Not sure what employers would do about their staff being rough sleepers. They would probably have to provide staff with showers & laundry facilities.

    155. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Rev Stu typed,
      “Well then you’re a bunch of fucking idiots, because you didn’t have to vote SNP in an independent Scotland.”

      And that’s what a (still) majority of Scots haven’t taken on board.

      When Scotland is independent, voters can vote for whatever party they like – SNP, SSP, Green, Solidarity, Labour, Lib-Dem, Tory, Independent, Monster Raving Loony – we’ll be electing them to the parliament of an independent Scotland. It’ll be OUR parliament.

    156. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Louis
      Yes, the HoC as the elected house can overturn the Lords using the Parliament Act. That in itself is a minor Consitutional Crisis, the major one comes because the present Conservative Government are one the cruellest and most authoritarian the UK has ever had, worse than Thatcher who did have some cop-on. They’re the ones who can make it a full Constitutional crisis, and the chances are, they will because as well as being cruel and authoritarian they’re cunning when it comes to politics generally, but thick as two short planks apart from that, living on a plane(t) of their own.

    157. Macart says:

      Bugger!

      For a heartbeat I hoped the Lords and the tory government might be about to get their jaikets aff.

      Conservatives sabre rattling at the Lords may just have been too good to be true when looking at the amendments concerning delayed payments. Looking more like theatre than pending stooshie.

    158. Ruby says:

      “The reason we voted No was because the SNP were not good enough.”

      I think you are misinterpreting what they are saying. I’ll translate for you:

      ‘The reason we voted NO was because Scotland is not good enough.

    159. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Scotland and the UK are apparently not able to make or tender the steel required to make the new Forth Bridge, so screams of anguish and despair all round from the red and blue tories.

      SNP-SG very naughty and bad, bad, bad.

      The UK railway network/Crossrail/HS2 etc. is being expanded, maintained or replaced when worn out. That is a rather large amount of steel which is required. Big money in fact.

      So I presume that the tenders and buyers were/are buying UK made steel/rails etc. and not importing it…?

      Silly little me…… 🙂

    160. Tony Little says:

      Sorry Stu, forgot the correct way to link 🙁

      @yesindyref2 your comment reminded me of this:”Interesting, but stupid”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qf6Sv3A9zs

    161. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Och Tony Little.

      A classic of its genre!

    162. Jim says:

      Macart says:
      26 October, 2015 at 8:31 pm

      @Jim

      See my post at 12.50 😀

      That’s the first and last time I attempt subtle sarcasm. I’m laying it on with a trowel from now on.

      But yes, Ms Dugdale is perfectly aware of Holyrood’s devolved powers. What of course she is hoping, is that not many others do. Our job is to pass on the information that the press won’t. Scotgov can post all the details it likes as can the SNP, but without the aid of the meeja, its up to us anoraks to help get it out there and shoot the bullshit down. 😉
      ____________
      Sorry m8, I tend to take things too literally which sometimes gets me into trouble like when the driving instructor asked me to take the first right and I pulled into someones driveway but what the hey you have articulated what I was trying to say rather well so thank you.

    163. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tony Little
      Yes, it was after I posted it I realised I got it wrong. Well, it was a long time ago, that’s my excuse and the mem, errr, memory is, errr

    164. Davy says:

      Ok folks, there is now two “Davys” posting on WOS, and I feel their is a need to show the difference between us.

      I am the original “Davy” and have been posting under my name for at least a couple of years. I am a firm believer in independence as I have total confidence in my fellow Scots being able to run our own country to the benefit of us all and the future of our children.

      The other (Davy) who has just appeared in the last few weeks under this name, appears to be a bluenosed unionist fuckwit who does not have the commonsense to ajust his name to avoid any confusion, and who in Scotland refers to themselves as “the Jocks”. Unfortunately for this guy our Scottish SNP government still have the highest approval rating of any government in the UK and thats after 8 years in government, explain that !

      So Davy the original = SNP & independence.

      And Davy the imposter = unionist & neep.

      I hope thats clear.

    165. farnorthdavie says:

      Just to go away back to the start of this post and the statement by Dippy Dug.

      Can I just remind folk that this came from the same person who stated that no parent wants a satisfactory education for their children!!

      Oh how we laughed, again.

    166. michael diamond says:

      The ‘reason we voted no was because the snp werent good enough”. No the reason you voted no, was because you hate scotland.



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