The impossible fantasy
The likely next Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale on today’s Sunday Politics:
We’ll try to keep this brief, because we want to go to the seaside.
What Dugdale professes to want is (if we’re being generous) naive to the point of stupidity, and (if we’re being less generous) a deliberate attempted deception of the people of Scotland. Labour CANNOT be two parties. It can either be independent and set its own policies, or it can be part of UK Labour, in which it has to do whatever UK Labour tells it to.
That’s not just our opinion, it’s not even just a matter of fact of party hierarchy and structure (although it is that too) – it’s the actual law. A “Scottish Labour” politician legally MUST stand for election on the UK Labour manifesto.
The example of “greater autonomy” for the Scottish branch office Dugdale chose was the electoral franchise for the coming EU referendum. But the EU referendum is a UK issue. Plainly, you can’t have a UK referendum where the franchise is different in Scotland to the rest of the country.
So what would Scottish Labour’s “autonomous” policy mean in practice? Nothing. Every single Scottish Labour MSP, and the single Scottish Labour MP, could say they wanted EU citizens resident in Scotland to have the vote, but even if Labour were to be in power at both Westminster and Holyrood it couldn’t happen, because UK Labour policy must by law trump Scottish Labour policy if the two are in conflict.
There is, and there can be, only one Labour Party. If Kezia Dugdale or anyone else in the Scottish branch wants to set their own policy on a UK issue in contradiction of what the UK leader wants, they can’t. It’s as stark, as simple, as black-and-white as that.
(UK Labour could of course decide to let the Scottish regional office have the final say on devolved policy, but it’s been telling us stridently for years now that that’s already the case, so it wouldn’t be “greater” anything.)
To pretend that Scottish Labour can ever be “autonomous” without being independent – and what that means in practical terms is being independent of UK Labour finances, ie bankrupt – is simply a lie.
A more urgent revision for UK Labour if it is to have a rat in hell’s chance of hanging on in Scotland is to drop the tribal, puerile and idiotic Bain Principle, whereby it automatically abstains on any amendment tabled by 95% of Scotland’s MPs.
There’s no chance of them putting clear, red water between them and the Tories when viewed from Scotland unless they do.
Money must flow from the pockets of Scottish Labour Party members and the Unions into Labours coffers. Stop the flow and Labour in Scotland wouldn’t be bankrupt. Much like the situation in the Union, Scotland is well able to exist as a separate entity from England.
[…] The likely next Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale on today’s Sunday Politics: […]
Does anyone know if Kezia reads Wings? I think she’d find it really helpful. Can someone email her?
She’s been too close to Murphy-the-mouth for too long. Doesn’t know when to shut up and thinks that if you keep talking without coming up for breath, you’ll eventually brow beat people into thinking you must be right.
Someone needs to drop her a word that it doesn’t work like that any longer. Once upon a time, yes. Not now. We’ve woken up and claimed our voice.
Spot on Rev,
Another way to look at it is to imagine if this wasn’t the law.
The Tories could have an anti-austerity agenda in Scotland and the North of England, but an extreme right wing agenda in areas with high immigration.
Labour could promote socialist policies in the North of England, pro Scottish in Scotland and Pro South England in the South East/London.
Very soon policies and politics would become meaningless or should that be even more meaningless than it is now, as no one would have any idea what each part really stood for.
At the moment no one really knows what Labour stand for throughout the UK and especially in Scotland but we all know what the Tories stand for.
So Kezia is telling the same old lies that have been so destructive to Labour in Scotland, she is not naïve, because she will have advisors putting her straight.
Stop lying to us Kezia.
Where’s Smurphy? I don’t care, I hope he’s fallen down a dark hole never to be seen again, but where has he disappeared to?
When Scottish labour goes back to the principles of the founding fathers of the original Scottish ‘Independent’ Labour Party of Keir Hardie and Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham (Also one of the founders of what became the SNP)and sever ties with London Labour, then they might start to get back out of the London sewer.
Auld Rock
‘Labour in lie shocker’.
So what’s new?
‘scottish’ Labour leaders are the Charlie Brown of politics.
Each and every one is set up by the London leadership to be the scapegoat for the inevitable hammering they get but, just like Charlie Brown, they cannot resist attempting to kick the football and then falling flat on their arse when the voters whisk it away.
The next ‘scottish’ Labour leader will do what they are telt by London Labour HQ. That IS their job.
That next leader will order them that to fall on their sword and take the blame in 2016 for London Labour’s failures and right leaning policies and they will do so.
Just like Iain Gray. Just like Lamont. Just like Murphy.
I had the misfortune to watch this…….
There is a real danger that the unaware might believe this drivel.
Maybe Kesia believes it ????? Maybe not
Either way she is trying hard to convince people that she is indeed the one to reinvent scottish labour. She may succeed
What she will not do is reverse the fortunes of the Labour Party.
lol, she’s obviously been told to know her place by her London bosses!
Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that there really is a Scottish Labour Party and they become independent of UK Labour. Let’s say they even formulate their own policies and produce their own election manifesto. What happens when they get elected to the big hoose on the Thames and take the UK Labour whip?
Does anyone know what happens to SDLP manifesto promises when they take the Labour whip in London?
What Kezia wants is the right to sound more acceptable to Scottish voters whilst at the end of the day still toeing the central Labour party line when it comes to actually applying policy.
It was a circle that Gray and Lamont tried to circle with their interminable dialogues with the Scottish people that never actually involved talking to anyone outside of closed Labour party meetings.
After the past two years I don’t feel like being charitable.
Its yet another attempt to deceive the public, pure and simple. Now either the Scottish members officially shut up shop, separate and form their own party or they don’t. The plain fact is they need to if they wish to begin the very long process of regaining any public trust in Scotland. More than that they have to become a party that puts their Scottish electorate first, stands on policies based on FFA and pledges to serve all of the people of Scotland regardless of station. None of this picking and choosing demographics bullshit, abandoning sections of society because it suits voting strategies and electoral tactics. Grow a goddam spine and stand for something other than self or power for powers sake.
If they are not prepared to do any or all of these things, they can pack their bags. I’d say the Scottish electorate are done paying heed to a tail that insists on wagging the dog.
I think we already have a party in Scotland which is completely independent of the UK Labour party and which represents the Scottish ‘Labour’ vote.
It’s called the Scottish National Party.
Frankly I don’t care where Murphy went.
I’m quite enjoying not having a massive jet of bull poo fired at my face every time he opens his mouth. Which was extremely often.
In fact I switched off entirely for a while. Nice to know slab are continuing to live in complete denial of the times though.
Funny little island, this.
Kezia Dugdale has a EUREKA MOMENT:-
“Follow the logic of the Referendum which is that we pool and share the resources of our great country”.
Oh wait,where have I heard that before?
SLAB knows its place because it is a subsidy junkie on London Labours coffers. Good little lap dogs, and they spend all their time whining and whelping and nipping on the subsidy junkie poodle channel known as the BBC.
Neither institution will make the break from its London Masters. They might utter independent noises but the reality is that they will forever remain the craven currs that they are.
I presume she was allowed to spout this pish uninterrupted and without challenge as per
If Kezia Dugdale was telling the truth, and I knew 100% that she WAS telling the truth, I’d still have difficulty believing her. She represents everything that has driven myself, and many many more like me, away from the labour party.
Scotland needs an independent left of centre party, in Scotland, for Scotland with some backbone and principles.
Unfortunately (for SLAB) we already have that in either the form of the Scottish Socialist Party or the Scottish Greens.
Labour are bereft of principle, redundant and irrelevant.
Small point but – if there is a separate Labour party in Scotland what’s the rest of it in England and Wales to be called? It can’t be the UK party.
“Where’s Smurphy?”
he’s fallin’ oot The Dugs mooth every time she opens it!
She is obviously continuing that long Labour tradition of talking gibberish as convincingly as possible while using her social silence filling skills to prevent any challenge to the said gibberish.
One might think she has been or will be “fun’oot” in the not too distant future by an entire electorate sickened to its back teeth.
Sadly , the MSM appears a little slower on the uptake than the electorate of Scotland – perhaps they should remove their fingers from their ears , stop singing ” la, la”, realise their reputations are sinking in a morass of smear , lie and fabrication and that their circulation figures /viewing figures are telling them – times up number seven.
Just so Kezia understands and we are all clear about this, Jim Murphy [and his successors] will NOT be writing the Labour party’s economic policy and even if he or she wishes to include EU citizens in the EU referendum franchise, that will NOT be happening. The voters in Scotland have moved light years from being satisfied with mere ‘nuanced’ and ultimately ineffectual differentiating of opinion, aka window-dressing. Seems pretty clear to the entire electorate, Kezia – it’s your move, but if it doesn’t involve an independent Labour party (or creation of a new party following a merger with the Liberal-Democrats and similarly, independent), your party will continue its accelerated decline towards extinction. Genuinely trying to be helpful…
I can’t actually bring myself to watch Miss Dugdale,spin the policy thanks for the chapters below.
According to the press both Dugdale and MacIntosh branch manager front runners,don’t want autonomy for Labour in Scotland.
So the branch office in Scotland will never overstep the head office in London.
It’s all just a facade.
link to heraldscotland.com
Geoff Huijer at 1.08pm covers it for me!!!!
Who are Scottish Labour?
They are the United Kingdom Labour Party that’s all, the end, a dead parrot, deceased, gone,
They represent the UK and their bosses in London in that country
We are, the Branch Office
Remember, signed Johann Lamont…
Remember Murphys Mansion Tax Remember Londons response
Get stuffed Jim, London said
Get stuffed Scotland London said
Vote NO and get the Smith Commission they said
We’ll ensure it they said
Have we got it, NO they said
Are we going to get it, NO they’ve said
Is Labours only Scottish MP speaking for Scotland
Is Scotlands only Tory MP speaking for Scotland
Is Scotland only Liberal Democrat speaking for Scotland
Get stuffed they say
Nicola Sturgeon said the SNP will speak for Scotland
Are they doing it YES every damn day
When it comes to taking the Scottish electorate for fools, Labour in Scotland just can’t help themselves.
Its never going to happen because if it does, its a giant step towards Scottish independence.
That’s why her bullshit’s is so polished. She can lie like an Alistair Carmichael because this is their Alamo.
If she wants a SLabour politics career, which is pretty tasty, she has to be script perfect and she is to be fair. I’d buy snake oil from this con artist, if I was just off the last lorry of neeps.
Yvette Cooper Candidate for leadership of the Labour Party opposes the creation of a separate Scottish Labour party. She wants it to “stay as part of the same party” north and south of the Border because of its “shared values” across the UK. She said:
“Scottish Labour is a valuable part of the UK party and I want it to stay as part of the same party because of our enduring values. We share these values. Scottish Labour must have a strong voice, but I want to make sure we stay as part of the same party with the same shared values.”
“www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/yvette-cooper-says-labour-party-is-better-together-1-3794160”
[…] The impossible fantasy […]
Only one thing to say. Enjoy the Seaside Stu.
I really do not see myself ever trusting the Labour Party again. However far they try to distance themselves from the “UK Labour Party”, there will always be a doubt in my mind as to what will happen when they reach Westminster. Will thay always vote in the interests of the Scottish working class, or will they not?
Trust, once lost, is gone forever.
I don’t really give a shit about Labour and their tortured logic, I just wish that broadcasters would not be so complicit in their bullshit by holding up their pretence of there actually being a “Scottish Labour Party”.
Rev Stu says:’A “Scottish Labour” politician legally MUST stand for election on the UK Labour manifesto.’
I’m confused. So how come Ian Murray was able to write to his constituents and tell them he was anti trident renewal?
link to scotsman.com
normally Slab would choose a “big hitter” or even a “medium sized hitter” for the branch leader but, unfortunately for them, they have no such person in their armoury. I expect Kez will get the job of overseeing the switching off of the emergency lights and hopefully she’ll remember to keep a torch in her pocket so that she can find her way out. Meanwhile the right wing UK Labour Party will struggle it’s way to complete unelectability and it will the be up to the grassroots to find and create a new politics to challenge the blinkered selfish right wing egos that are currently chosen by a minority mix of selfish and stupid people in our dodgy antiquated electoral process.
My Godfathers, That was lame. It don’t look like there isnae going to be any real SLAB opposition for the SNP any time soon. Surly SLAB must have a more credible candidate for leader than the Dug. Not that I’m bothered.
Slab wants autonomy, where to start.
They already have the automatons, just needs a new spring. Cogs are a bit worn and the starter’s needing replaced..
Suspension of disbelief worn out, it’s been bumpy going but that’s only gonna get worse..
Got some serious moral corrosion affecting the bodywork, you’ve been getting away with changing panels, but being honest- chassis’ gone pal.
What’s that? – what’d take to get it back on the road?
(Purses lips and blows whilst shaking head)
New tires all round, there’s no grip on reality on what you’ve got there..not safe..instant fail just there.
Brakes ineffective, steering out by a MILE!
Indicators are wired wrong way, you’ve only got dips..
Screen’s cracked and the sun room’s leaking- which could explain why the driver’s seat is damp? Either that or someone pissed themselves, it’s a bit stinky. Needs a valet.
The emissions are poisonous, keeps spewing thick white smoke, that’s oil and water pal. Guy behind can’t see the road.
You do know it’s a diesel? Someone’s been putting cooking oil in there..
Nah..I don’t care if they said it’s biodiesel. .It smells like a f##kin’ chippie..
Listen, best I can do is take it for parts but I’m extremely busy at the minute.
I’ll do you a favour.. You give me the keys and £50 and walk away. You’ll feel a whole lot better then.
The bus stop is at the end of the road. Here, Mundy! Gie the woman, sorry what’s your name doll?
Aye gie her a lift down the bus stop and pick up a few choc-Ices on yer way back.
Dinnae get the wrang ones ye numpty!
I haven’t had the pleasure of watching the entire interview, but I’m reading on social media that Ms Dugdale has also said she’d like to see former Labour MPs in Holyrood, to the point of reopening the regional list places for next year – even though places have already been protected. Is this accurate?
She had previously stated her desire to reopen the list, but explicitly rejected second chances for former MPs:
link to archive.is
If so, then… God almighty, could we wind up seeing the “cream” of the Feeble Forty make a triumphant return to politics by grabbing list seats like castaways at sea desperately scrummaging for flotsam?
WE JUST GOT RID OF THEM, DAMMIT.
If Dugdale becomes “leader” Labour politicians in Scotland will, when it comes to the crunch, continue to obey their Westminster masters. “Follow the logic of the referendum…” indeed.
I must go down to the sea again
To the lonely sea and the sky
I left my shoes and my socks there
I wonder if they are dry?
Spike Milligan
Dizzy Dugdale’s knowledge of politics is as deep as a puddle of spilled milk.
Kezia Dugdale repeatedly refers to the outcome of the September 2014 referendum, stating her preference for the future of Scotland to be guided by the oucome which clearly indicated Scotland’s contentment with the status quo.
But in doing so she ignored the disgraceful conduct of Better Together supporters within and outwith Scotland in the last week of the campaign.
At that time indicators were that the “Yes” campaign was gaining momentum and had taken a lead in the views of almost all of the opinion pollsters. Projection was a 55/45 majority vote in favour of independence.
Panic measures involved EVERY apparatus of the Westminster political system, the Foreign Office, The Civil Service, (in contravention of State laws) Gordon Brown and the “Poisoned Chalice of Vows” and the at the stroke of midnight intervention of her majesty the Queen asking Scot’s to “think very carefully”.
The foregoing coupled with major mini-campaigns of misinformation designed to put the “fear of satan” into the minds of pensioners had the desired effect and the Better Together campaigners won the day.
Scot’s are not fools and, in the months leading up to the General Election many of the Better Together campaigners scare tactics were revealed opening the eyes of those Scot’s that had fallen for the wiles of Westminster.
The greatest “ponsey” scheme in the abusive history of England over Scoland had been tumbled.
Scotland exacted it’s revenge at the General Election The Labour, Liberal Democrat and Tory party’s were punished for their part in the political scandal that was the Scottish referendum.
“conducted entirely within Scotland by Scot’s without any external political interference”
David Cameron’s undertaking at the time he declined to debate issues of independence with Alex Salmond.
So Kezia Dugdale would be best advised to consult with persons of political views at odds with her own, (her father would be a good starting point) before committing the Labour Party branch in Scotland to a future based on an incorrect analysis of the outcome of the referendum.
Wasn’t she not long ago, going on about how both her parents were teachers and is always trying to have a go at the SNP and Scottish education? If she thought a maths question was too difficult for some kids, imagine if this ever ended up as an answer in an exam? Since her father seems quite a sensible chap..was this her way of rebelling as a teen? I wonder how her teachers feel when they see/read this drivel?
Jo Mackenzie
Yes where is Murphy? And more curious, where is Gordon Brown? Not a word to say about the SNP election victory and where Labour should go (although I suspect that Rowley is being coached by the man himself).
While I’m on it, where is Lord Smith? His recommendations are being torn to shreds by the Tories, but shouldn’t he be defending his plans? Come on Smithy, you’ve got your seat in the Lords, why don’t you man up and defend your proposals?
The Labour party is an irrelevance. Those who ‘lead’ it want it to remain the same. We now have that clearly stated so there is no further point in discussing what should be done to change the Labour party. The task now is to eradicate it at all levels in Scotland – permanently.
It was same old same old. Kezia had at least 2 goes at ranting about Education = SNP BAD and the rest was even more utterly vacant blahblahblah.
When asked about PR voting reform she rambled on about crap like e-votes and weekend voting…all so she didnt have to concede she agreed with SNP and PR reform a good thing…which is also London Labours stance too on PR of course.
Doomed. Pure and very simple.
Trident?
An anti trident policy for labour in Scotland and pro Trident policy for uk labour?
This is why people form different parties as there is a disagreement on priorities, morals and policies.
Without exception of the uk, different countries have different parties as there differences over priorities, morals and policies.
This is why the SDLP are a sister party that is separate from uk labour and should they disagree on a policy or vote, they can go their own separate way.
Under arm questions and gentle handling for Dugdale today, wonder why she is staying and Harman will stand down post election of a new uk leader?
Labour (Scottish Branch) has just destroyed an chance of recovery – only a truly independent Scottish party can survive the next five years, and they’ve blown it.
A month or so ago, I thought Labour would get around a dozen or so seats in 2016’s election.
After hearing from the leadership candidates in yesterday’s debate, along with The Dug today, I doubt the party will win more than 9.
I’ve heard a rumour Jackie Baillie’s taken up singing lessons.
There’s an extra dimension to this. Jeremy Corbyn is throwing his hat into the ring for Labour Leadership. He will be standing on an anti-austerity platform and that may well bring many people back to the Labour fold in England, but what about Scotland? It may well bring Scottish Labour folk back into the Labour party if it gets back to its socialist roots.
That’s if he gets in. There are others vying for the Leadership.
So is Slab going to wait until after the Labour Leadership election to hone its own policies so as to capitalise on what might bring Labour voters back, or are they going to stand firm and set out their policies beforehand. The former, is my bet. In which case, they cannot be autonomous. They are dependent upon the leadership and policies of the next UK Labour leader.
That was in April, before the election.
Post election, Murray was given a Shadow Cabinet post. The rules of cabinet collective responsibility apply to the shadow cabinet as to Ministers in the cabinet. See Dewar in link to researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk
His choice is support Labour policy on Trident, or resign his shadow cabinet position.
I think she’s answered Yvette Cooper’s search for why Labour lost Scotland and are losing the English working and Welsh working classes.
@ Sooz – I very much doubt Jeremy Corbyn will get any mainstream media coverage, one self-penned article in the Guardian.
Bobby McPherson wrote:
“Where’s Smurphy?”
“he’s fallin’ oot The Dugs mooth every time she opens it!”
Spot on, Bobby – DimJim in Drag.
The London puppeteers have found themselves a new Slabber doll.
Deputy Dug becomes Dippy Doll in the latest instalment of Slabberfest from the BBC.
I think London Labour are going to appoint females, north and south of the border, because they’ve seen the recent success on tv of Sturgeon, Wood and Bennett and they want a piece of that.
Unfortunately for London Labour there are a few problems with that sort of thinking. (1):You need someone the public can respect and not laugh at, (2):You need a strong woman who is not just some blokes mouthpiece, (3):And you most certainly need someone who’s not known for lying to and deceiving the public.
Game over, Slabber, before it’s even begun.
No LibLabCons – Vote them out.
She can fairly rabbit on without drawing breath, would make a good scuba diver.
Personally, I think it is the Scottish Labour Party itself that is probably the most convincing argument against Scottish Independence. A country that can’t produce better opposition leaders than Lamont, Murphy and now Dugdale maybe really is either too wee, too dumb, too poor or all three together. Although their Westminster counterparts are not exactly a paragon of intellect, the current Scottish crop of Labour representatives never fails to flabbergast and embarrass.
She just opens her mouth and talks whatever pish she thinks might sound right that day. Once again labour are going to be a party with no real substance and try to fool the public with sound bites and footballs, drinking, oo bullshit.
Also noticed once again labour mentioning the referendum. Will they not just let it lie.
Sorry cannot watch her, she has fair spoiled FMQ’s for me, I hate her wee lassie voice which goes on and on.
How can I put this, Johann Lamont was an actual improvement on this one and I hated her.
I have come to the decision that our Education System needs a good over hall to bring to an end Dugdale and Lamont ending up with qualifications, there must be better people who never make it to University.
Well that is my insulting done. I don’t suppose someone in Labour in Scotland having someone with more talent for the job, no I suppose not. Well 2016 should see a clear out then.
Guys, PLEASE stop referring to the former branch leader’s name. We just fought an election to kick him out of office precisely so we wouldn’t have to put up with him or his ilk in politics again, do you REALLY want him to darken our collective doorsteps again?
Besides, I seriously think there’s some sort of “Candyman” thing going on where if you say their names three times in the mirror at midnight, they’ll appear. *shudders*
JM self confessed T total an Irn Bru user.
KD is AC on RedBull or Speed . Lie @ 100mph hoping no one will notice.
Maybe KD loves to visit Naaaairn Beach !
Coat is on ……
@ Paula
He’s getting some coverage now, although I’ve not seen him listed for any media interviews. But you may well be right, if the media choose to sideline him in favour of leaders who support Tory policies. 🙁
Stop they Slab autonomouses fae breeding , lay doon loads of SNP traps.
Whits that you,s say, they,ve laid their ain traps Exterminate , Exterminate.
I guess Chris Cairns is having a weekend at the seaside too?
All this “Lets remove protection for current MSPs and current list places” … Wow….if thats ur answer Scottish Labour then you still dont understand the fecking question!
Start with policy..not personality
@Farrochie: That was in April, before the election.
Yes, exactly. Rev Stu said ‘A “Scottish Labour” politician legally MUST stand for election on the UK Labour manifesto”.
The BBC don’t even bother trying to hide its support for the Labour Party, the whole program was a hatchet job on the SNP, it was produced directed and presented by the Labour Party have a look make up your own mind,they don’t even bother trying to conceal it anymore this will continue right up to the Scottish Parliament elections drip drip drip been here before haven’t we ?
Some useful phrases for Slabber’s to ask their London masters for permission to google.
Back to square one
Back to the drawing board
Barking up the wrong tree
Beating a dead horse
Also isn’t time the BBC accepted the democratic will of the Scottish people,forgot,they also have ask their London masters.
The world has moved on,while they are stuck living in the past,meanwhile the people of Scotland view them with complete contempt (or is that just me ?).
Couldn’t Labour just amend their constitution to make this problem go away, so that Labour is a federation of smaller parties?
@ Charles Edward. Ah like that ah garage owner wie principles,nae dodgie MOTs here, fek aff. Btw wie £50 scrap value, overgenerious, as they say Rust in Peace.
Later in the PS interview KD waffled on about SNP Manifesto / 50p Tax rate then stated that the SNP voted against it in Hollyrood last week .
I seam to have missed all this last week .
Anyone else understand what KD was babbling on about ?
Strikes me as KD confusing WM 2015 manifesto and Hollyrood ?
Help me Rhona !
I have been saying the same since this, “Scottish Labour must be autonomous” premise was mooted after the election. How can any party which wishes to gain power in Westminster have two separate independent constituent parts where the policies for one of those parts may be totally at odds with that of the other part? You do not even have to go very far to find a prime example of such a potential situation. We’re told that the vast majority of Scottish Labour members are opposed to Trident.If Labour in England took such a policy into a UK general election they would be hammered. Every time there was a policy difference between English and Scottish Labour the Tories would have a field day.
If Scottish Labour is serious about becoming a genuine independent party the only way it could be sustained would be if such a party was to adopt Scottish independence as one of its policies. Given that after the recent general election Labour lost a huge number of its ‘career’ politicians, the thought processes of some people in Scottish Labour may be drifting in this general direction.
I did notice Kezia at one point using the “pooling and sharing resources” line when asked about which was her preference, “independence” or “autonomy”. Which if translated from Redtoryical language to normal language means, “we’re skint and need money from London, and if that means lying to the people of Scotland, then so be it,,, we are Labour after all”
Talk about sticking your fingers in your ears and going,’ …La-La-La-La-La-La‘ while hoping that at somepoint, the UK will rectify itself in so many ways, the threat of Scottish Independence will go away, and that the UK electorate will once again back Labour as a majorly influential party.
I’m starting to honestly believe that Kezia was a perfect understudy to Murphy. She couldn’t have chosen a better teacher; nor could he have chosen a better student; when it came to the art of self-delusional beliefs.
All we need is for Labour to keep moving further to the right, Kezia to continue blethering mince, the Tories to keep cutting loose with their insensitive rhetoric as well as pursuing their agenda for the EU exit, then honestly …barring any major incident by an SNP MP at Westminster, while continuing to display a sheer willingness to be Scotland’s champions, I can’t see how the SNP can’t completely sweep Holyrood in a years time.
If all comes to pass, and England votes for the EU exit, while Scotland votes to stay in …I just can’t see this Union lasting this parliamentary term. I really do believe something is going to give!
Personally, I think Greg Moodie does Kezia far, far better than the BBC! ;D ;D
What influence does the co-operative party of which Kezia Dugdale is a member, have on the Labour party?
In the words of Alecsammin, “behave yourself woman.”
So, did he challenge her, saying what she talked about wasn’t possible?
O/T folks
Just been on News net and got a load of garbage about some Tory wannabe’s drivel about slumming it in Sweatyland-and Ruth
Lying Bastard Davidson’s her best pal
Ffs had to consider where I was
Thought it was the Daily Mail site
What’s going on with Bateman?
Business as usual then…!
No more Scottish Labour nonsense then, as this statement completely rejects that idea. Branch office it is …
Dugdale is going to ‘rebuild’ the branch office .!!
How will that work, she will only have a remit, as branch manager, to implement labour policy from labour HQ, surely.?
The above aside, was Jim Murphy not supposedly creating a new way forward before quitting ?
Same old sop from labour.
SNP BAD.
ELECTORATE STUPID.
Roll on 2016, popcorn at the ready yet again !!
O/T, two journalist sideshows on sky news discussing “gaffe of the week”. No 1, Alex Salmond calling a woman “woman”. Can’t believe anyone in their right mind considers this newsworthy.
If that’s the highlight of the parly week,and there’s nothing else to worry about, the uk is being very well run.
No, me neither…
jim says:
7 June, 2015 at 5:05 pm
What influence does the co-operative party of which Kezia Dugdale is a member, have on the Labour party?
Undertakers?
This clip tells us everything that she still takes order from the English Labour Party and that Scottish Labour will not be an Independent Party from the West Minster elite. I really hope this wee lassie loses her seat, me personally I am sick of hearing and seeing her sad miserable face.
Want to see a n other The Graun bare faced lie?
link to archive.is
“The Labour party is in “big trouble” and could see its support fall further after its heavy defeat at the general election, Alastair Campbell has said.”
Alistair Campbell on Marr show this morn being blatantly misquoted Graun style . He was actually talking about SLabour on the down escalator in their Scotland region and he muttered that it could get even worse or, alluding entirely to Scotland’s Holyrood elections next year.
Wonder why Graun pulled it into a UKOK thing.
You would imagine that they should have cotgoned on by now that the Scottish people are too savvy to bite this baited hook any more.It is like looking at an accident unfolding before you,but being powerless to prevent it.
Indeed,why call yourselves Labour at all if you are a separate entity
They must think we are really mugs.
@ Taranaich at 2:38.
That is one reason we need to look at the system for list MSP’s.
As a voter, I want a say who is on the list, they do (or should) represent me in the Scottish parliament.
The thought of people we just rejected as Westminster MP’s being allowed to represent us in Holyrood is just plain nonsense.
O/T Sent this to the BBC after todays c**ck up on the Andrew Marr Show.
Dear BBC News,
What a complete shambles, car crash, of an attempt at an interview between Andrew Marr and Angus Robertson.
If BBC Scotland can’t even set up a transmission, (as has happened all to often in the recent past), then they should give up and save us all the time and the cringe caused by their incompetence.
BBC Scotland is obviously not fit for purpose.
Also Andrew Marr was obviously rattled by the lack of professionalism, as he could not even remember the name of the Westminster leader of the UK’s third party.
If I was Angus Robertson I would refuse to accept any further invites from the BBC until an apology and a re-assurance that the shambles will not be repeated.
In the last twelve months this is the fourth such attempt at political dialogue between London and Scotland. Two on Andrew Marr’s show and two on the national part of the Sunday Politics Show, which have mysteriously been dogged by transmission problems!
So important points which deserve to be heard by the whole UK are denied to the public.
Once again political balance is denied and appears to be swept under the carpet.
Regards
Wonder why Graun pulled it into a UKOK thing.
The Michael White syndrome:
British democracy should be a strict two party system, with a third party existing only as decoration to give the impression of a multi-party democracy.
(The SNP should be exiled.)
If BBC Scotland can’t even set up a transmission, (as has happened all to often in the recent past), then they should give up and save us all the time and the cringe caused by their incompetence.
We all know that BBC vote SLab Scotland do it on purpose all the time to anyone and everyone SNP and its just going to get worse as their UKOK future looks less and less certain. So just say “stop playing silly BBC buggers with Scotland’s democracy please.”
Also Marr did apologise and said sound problems with SNP leader Alistair Robinson was because Speyside is quite a long way way away.
Presumably Andrew Marr has a kind of BBC silly buggers measure, the further you get from the epicentre of teamGB unionists, the sneakier and nastier BBC gets.
Oh dear. Oh deary, deary, deary me. She has the reasoning powers of a skelf.
Grouse Beater says:
7 June, 2015 at 6:41 pm
Wonder why Graun pulled it into a UKOK thing.
The Michael White syndrome:
It is at least two displays of British propaganda at work. Campbell was heading to talk about Holyrood 2016 but Marr was having none of it and old rancid Graun is now lying opening about it.
You cant even misinterpret Marr and Campbell this morn. They were quite specific on SLabour tanking in Scotland but it looks like this is how they’re playing their Scotland region from now on.
TeamGB is still a two party state as far the red and blue tory propaganda machine goes.
Might work, in England.
What a shambles. Kezia Dugdale disagrees with her colleagues south of the border, on a number of issues, and they don’t seem to be able to agree on anything at all.
link to theguardian.com
“a deliberate attempted deception of the people of Scotland.”
Everything Labour has said since Blair became leader has been a deliberate attempted deception of the people, both in Scotland and in South Britain.
I suspect that they were doing the OB using a satellite link but Marr’s stupid comment that Speyside is a long way is an insult to our intelligence, given that news bulletins had perfect links to The Bavarian Alps for G7 and to HMS Bulwark at sea in the Med. Don’t make me laugh, London rules, aye that’ll be right as they will very quickly learn.
Stu hope you had a nice paddle at the seaside.
Auld Rock
O/T
From Craig Murray’s site:
‘’As to the legal position, Orange displays are very plainly illegal under the Public Order Act 1936. This has not been repealed or contradicted by subsequent legislation and it does apply to Scotland. It is not otiose – it has been used against striking miners and against Irish Republicans.
Section 1 (I)
Subject as hereinafter provided, any person who in any public place or at any public meeting wears uniform signifying his association with any political organisation or with, the promotion of any political object shall be guilty of an offence:
The Orange Order registered as a participant in the referendum campaign. It is therefore by definition an avowedly political organisation.
Without any need to get in to the fact it is the only remaining effective part of Scottish Labour and Gordon Matheson’s sole resource on the ground.’’
And here we have a speaker at Orangefest ‘dragging political’ into the so-called cultural celebration and no doubt whipping up bad feeling. Just as well no one decided to walk through Freedom Square waving our flag yesterday.
From todays Sunday Herald:
Ruth Dudley Edwards, Irish journalist, historian and crime writer, addressed the crowd at Orangefest. To sustained and loud applause she said ‘’I was appalled by that petition against this culture and heritage day. It was founded on ignorance, bigotry and symptomatic of people who voted yes in the Referendum. I hope Nicola Sturgeon will be reining in these kind of people.’’
Is this better together, really?
link to youtube.com
#OrangeFest 2015 (Orange Order, Glasgow)
link to youtube.com
Just to give you a bit of a laugh after all of that.
Naked Video – Paul Simon’s agent meets with an orange band.
link to youtube.com
Glasgow Rangers’ groundbreaking signing.
link to youtube.com
I know Stu has to cover this, but the thing is: Scotland has moved on and the Labour Party is yesterday’s news. What is happening now is the Scottish Left Project, Women for Indy getting involved in 2016, Solidarity Party (Tommy Sheridan and Lindsay Jarrett are speaking soon in Govan — I would pay VERY good money just to hear these two wonderful speakers), Scottish Greens…
The people of today are the likes of Cat Boyd, not Kezia Dugdale. I am sure Kezia is a very nice person at heart, but she is only on tv because they are still plugging the same old establishment politics.
We have a curious situation which could be a good Doctor Who or Quantum Leap episode. Scotland is living in the 21st century with a whole host of new relevant parties, figures and (social) media. While on tv and the printed media, in the minds of the outdated WM establishment, they are living in a parallel universe that simply has no connection with reality on the ground.
Time for the latter to finally die out. We should not waste our time with them, but keep working towards independence, land reform, discussing politics, following the likes of Lesley Riddoch and taking everything into our own hands…
Since the dawn of devolution SLab have been trying on this stunt with the Scottish voters …. pretending be distinctive and offering something more appropriate for Scotland, deceitfully. A great big lie, as Stu eloquently points out.
Lying is a dangerous tactic. You have to be sure you will get away with it because the consequences of being found out are often irreversible. Once labelled as a liar, those who have seen through your lies will never really trust what you say again.
SLab’s fundimental problem is that more and more Scots see the deceit they have thrown at us. Fewer and fewer will give them any credence. Keep lying and it’s a one way street to oblivion.
So they want to keep up the deceit? Then oblivion beckons.
Personally, the sooner Labour in Scotland disappear, the better. Sure, they worked wonders in the 1940s, but what positive have they done for Scotland over the last umpteen decades? More to the point, look at the damage they have caused! I don’t want to see them reborn out of ashes … I want to see the ashes scattered on deep dark water!
As far as I am aware watching that clip Kezia Dugdale never answered Brewer’s question about what she meant by Scottish Labour wanting more autonomy. All Dugdale did was say she was against an independent Scottish Labour Party, which is not the same thing as giving your clear position on what you mean by more autonomy! It seems she is content to make no real change to SLAB in its current form, which is clearly a completely untenable position and stance to take given their current situation.
It is also the opposite of what the likes of Jack McConnell, Alex Rowley and co have been saying about the need for an independent Labour Party in Scotland.
ClanDonald,
“I’m confused. So how come Ian Murray was able to write to his constituents and tell them he was anti trident renewal?”
Like the Lib Dems, Labour candidates have their own local lying manifestos. As long as they win their parties are not bothered.
Once they win, they tow the party line. There are always some rebels, but only so because they know that their votes will not affect the outcome, except in some rare cases.
As Rev Stu has told us many times, politicians in UK OK can lie with impunity. There is no law which prevents it.
That is why the Scottish judge will rule that Carmichael didn’t break any law by lying.
But lawyers will make a killing of those sixty thousand pounds.
She really needs to do speech excercises which encourage her to slow down.
e.g.
“How now Brown Vow?”
“Around the ragged SLAB the ragged rascal span.”
“In Hertford, Hereford and Hampshire, her inanities hardly ever register.”
Come on Rev. You can be Professor Stuart Higgins to her Kezia Doolittle.
Have any of you heard of this?
‘’Labour were forced to form both the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly by threats to remove the UK from the CoE (Council of Europe) if they did not comply. ‘’
This is along read, but it is stuff we all should know.
link to ncdiblog.wordpress.com
farrochie says:
7 June, 2015 at 2:57 pm
ClanDonald says:
7 June, 2015 at 2:31 pm
I’m confused. So how come Ian Murray was able to write to his constituents and tell them he was anti trident renewal?
That was in April, before the election.
Post election, Murray was given a Shadow Cabinet post. The rules of cabinet collective responsibility apply to the shadow cabinet as to Ministers in the cabinet. See Dewar in link to researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk
His choice is support Labour policy on Trident, or resign his shadow cabinet position.
He merely follows the usual Labour approach of saying whatever came into his mind, true or false, that would get a few more voters on-board. In his case it was his stance against Trident and a prominent role in “The Foundation of Hearts” the organisation behind the saving of Heart of Midlothian F.C.from which he has now resigned. In this case, being returned to Westminster with the slimmest of majorities probably bolstered by a couple of thousand Hearts supporters, the end without doubt justified the means.
O/T…
This is stuckish, at £57,352.
Less than £3,000 needed.
link to indiegogo.com
Delusional.. Yes I think we should be an autonomous party in Scotland, but like the Referendum we should pool and share resources. I read that as pooling a sharing policies. They do nothing in Scotland Interests. The only interests they have in mind are their own.
Like David Mundell – supposed to be ‘Scotland’s Man in Westminster’, but we all know he’s just ‘Westminster’s Man in Scotland’ who wouldn’t dare speak up for Scotland’s interests if it means going against D.C.
One thing about Kezia though, is like many a politician she’s good at rabbiting on even when the interviewer is trying to intervene.
A Scottish Labour Party totally independent of UK Labour, but still Unionist? How could that ever work in practice?
If they are independent, then they could have their very own manifesto and policies for Scotland.
OK, so they do all this and send some (plural) MPs to WM again in the future. How do they get that manifesto implemented? Coalition with rUK Labour? Then their manifesto and promises would go the way of the LibDems in 2010, diluted, corrupted or simply ignored by their bigger partner.
This is not a party political problem, it’s a national problem. Scotland cannot have significantly different policies from the rest of the UK while in the Union. The comparative sizes of England and Scotland mean our interests and policies will always be washed away. From a London perspective there is no need for compromise or concensus …. everything is hunky dory just so long as we tow their line.
Pro Union parties NEED to be UK wide and all sing from the same song sheet.
Still O/T…
Independence Live’s fundraiser appears to be struggling; only £2,288 raised of a £5,800 target – and only 6 days left. C’mon, help out Kevin and Del Boy and the team!
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/going-forward–2/x/6554369#/story
So are SLAB going to preference as candidates for the Hollyrood elections their former MPs who were spectacularly dismissed by the electorate from Westminster?
There must be a Groucho Marx punchline for that strategy. “Policies? I have others”, doesn’t quite fit, but close.
On the grand tour: Banished to Scotland to listen…Aye right!
Well somebody’s got to do it.
link to archive.is
@Rock, yes, I realise all that, what you are saying is everything that I originally thought.
What puzzles me is why the Rev was saying that A “Scottish Labour” politician legally MUST stand for election on the UK Labour manifesto.
It is this statement which seems to contradict Ian Murray campaigning on an anti-trident renewal ticket when the party supports it. By not standing for election on the UK Labour manifesto is he therefore acting illegally?
@call me dave – Utter drivel from Daisley I’m afraid.. And those 3 English lions would be 3 leopards passant. If you’re gonnae write pish at least get it right.
re latest WOS Tweet – people get ready, to dust-off your old biscuit jokes…
link to archive.is
so labours plan is to pretend its autonomous when in fact it isn’t. Basically nothing is to change.
Well Scottish labour – it was nice knowing you. Please make sure that door hits you on the ass on the way out.
@Croompenstein
Aye three ‘lions’ which are leopards. I read that on a previous thread, but hey! 🙂
All the prospective labour leaders are visiting Scotland to be scourged er..except Keiza who’s here already.. funny old world init!
Has she inherited Murphy’s glue supplies?
Auld Rock says:
7 June, 2015 at 7:35 pm
I suspect that they were doing the OB using a satellite link but Marr’s stupid comment that Speyside is a long way is an insult to our intelligence, given that news bulletins had perfect links to The Bavarian Alps for G7 and to HMS Bulwark at sea in the Med.
Dear Paedophile Broadcasting Corruption,
I can recall sitting in a remote Scottish Primary School in the 1960’s watching “Live” coverage of Neil Armstrong walking, and talking, on the Moon.
You may have noticed that you have produced the odd advancement of technology programme, well in between the extensive SNP-Bad broadcasts, and it is possible to establish reliable Video/Audible links between London and Speyside, if you really want them?
I do concede that your Paedophile Protectorate of Wastmonster, has not been able to form links with the true finances of which you rob Scotland, nor how a High Speed Rail link might be extended further than Yorkshire, but if you can visit your local Library, you can Google the word “Broadband”, and it could open up a whole new world to you?
On the topic of Labour having 2 faces, I suggest that they have more faces than a Hong Kong Copy Watch Factory.
Unfortunately for Labour, none of them reflect current times.
What Dipity Dug would like to see is “Scottish” Labour representatives being able to say things like ” I disagree with Trident”, but a big gang of big boys in Wastmonster assure me
that we are lucky wee souls to be getting all those jobs maintaining Armageddon, so we will just keep the status quo.
Who wants to be be able to fund life saving operations and treatments when you can have weapons of mass destruction for only £100 Billion?
If the propaganda on the BBC was ever supposed to reflect
life in Scotland, is it possible that they have not noticed that SNP membership is around 12 fold that of “Scottish” Labour,
has word filtered through yet that SNP has 56 Westminster MPs, and “Scottish” Labour only 1, surely they know that the Scottish Parliament has a majority SNP Governments?
Is their “coverage” in proportion to the confirmed stats above?
How could anyone in their right mind try to suggest that the political coverage on TV is either fair or balanced when the electorate have made it perfectly clear that Labour are a minor player in Scottish Politics, and one that has no credibility.
Is this act of operating without a scrap of credibility what binds the 2 organisation together in their mutual support?
@Ian Brotherhood
Labour Hob Nobbing and failing miserably. 🙂
@ Ian Brotherhood – dusting done xx
I’ll misquote again, “never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake. “
The labour party in Scotland, rather than the Scottish labour party, and I use the term advisedly, is in terminal decline, and we all know it.
It has learned nothing from the independence referendum, or indeed from the general election. Dugdale looks likely to be their next leader, and that speaks volumes. I need not elaborate.
Bittie Glakit says:
7 June, 2015 at 8:08 pm
Have any of you heard of this?
Labour were forced to form both the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly by threats to remove the UK from the CoE (Council of Europe) if they did not comply.
This is along read, but it is stuff we all should know.
link to ncdiblog.wordpress.com
=========================================================
Wow.
Just when you thought “they” couldn’t be any worse ….. they achieve it.
@Ian Brotherhood
Crumbs that is hard to digest.
@macart
That made me ‘snicker’
You would have thought that ‘French fancies’ best choice!
PS:
—————————————————————-
Former Scottish Labour leader Johann Lamont is facing a challenge from the SNP’s Humza Yousaf at next year’s Holyrood election.
Yousaf, the minister for Europe and International Development, will this week put himself forward for the SNP candidacy in Lamont’s Glasgow Pollok constituency.
Nominations for the internal party selection open on Tuesday.
Lamont, who has been the area’s MSP since 1999, confirmed she would defend the seat in May, but the omens are not good.
In 2011, her majority slumped from over 4,500 to just 623, and in the general election, the overlapping Westminster seat of Glasgow South West was won by the SNP on a massive 35 per cent swing against Labour.
However Lamont, 57, could also stand on the Glasgow regional list as a fallback.
Yousaf, 30, who was himself elected a Glasgow list MSP in 2011, said: “I love the whole city, however my heart lies with the communities of Glasgow Pollok.
————————————————————-
The Herald article linked above is correct.
There is zero possibility of an independent Labour Party being created. For anyone who doubts that, take even a cursory look at Labour Hame and see what the ‘leading activists’ are saying. A recent example was a piece by ‘Dr’ Scott Arthur from Edinburgh (he who managed to get himself on every Indyref/GE debate audience and shout at the SNP participants), hilariously titled “I am Not a Unionist”. Apart from the usual ‘SNP Bad’ drivel, what stood out most for me was his assertion that it was still better for Scotland to be part of the UK – even if it meant Tory governments – because ‘pooling and sharing’ meant Scotland got ‘social justice in the long term’. Basically, a variation on the top wee, too poor, too stupid thesis.
That is the mindset of the people we’re dealing with. Their knee-jerk, visceral hatred of ‘nationalism’ and the SNP still trumps everything, and I would suggest that it’s going to take a generational change before there’s any serious consideration of a truly independent Scottish Labour Party.
The ’empire’ strikes back, surely?
(Was wondering t’other day why those biscuits are so-called – could it be because the cone-shaped jelly on top is like a statue of Queen Victoria, and the ‘biscuit’ represents the world she ruled over? Hey, it’s plausible – any other ideas?)
An Empire biscuit (Imperial biscuit, Double biscuit, German biscuit, Belgian biscuit Double Shortbread or Empire Cookie) is a sweet biscuit popular in the United Kingdom, particularly Scotland, and other Commonwealth countries.
It is typically considered a traditional Scottish snack
OR Its about the World War I
The empire biscuit has been a popular snack, especially in Scotland, since at least the early 1900s. Originally known as the Linzer biscuit and then the German biscuit, bakers and manufacturers changed the name of the snack to empire biscuit during World War I.
The name change was an attempt to inspire patriotism across the United Kingdom during the war, similar to the name “freedom fries” used in the United States.
link to bbc.co.uk
Nice example of misinforming, BBC style there
“Current leader Jim Murphy is standing down this month following Labour’s poor performance at the general election.”
Poor performance? Pacific Quay chancers have to take their share of the poor performance too but they wont. They put everything they have into their Vote For Jim Or Else, its hard to see how they’ll make an even bigger mess of Holyrood 2016. His month’s notice must be up by now, well tomorrow.
Thanks for all the laughs and good luck with all your future endeavours Jim.
That’s accurate Stu. Is also their problem.
Even failed Murphy tried to push these boundaries as spin which didn’t work.
Slab politician’s regurgitating party (UK) policy whilst trying to fling a bit of Scottish icing on top of the cake just makes them come across as wooden and insincere.
amTheBam says:
7 June, 2015 at 9:54 pm
Bittie Glakit says:
7 June, 2015 at 8:08 pm
—
This is along read, but it is stuff we all should know.
link to ncdiblog.wordpress.com
==================================================
Wow.
Just when you thought “they” couldn’t be any worse ….. they achieve it.
—
It would appear that if the UK opts to leave the EU there would be nothing to stop Westminster getting rid of the Scottish government.
O/T
Very easy to distract Max Wall Duggers.
Wave a bag of Greggs goodies in front of her.
Cakey snacks num num.
@heedtracker says: 7 June, 2015 at 6:45 pm:
” … Also Marr did apologise and said sound problems with SNP leader Alistair Robinson was because Speyside is quite a long way way away.”,
Presumable then Australia, New Zealand, USA and Canada are all much closer to London as they never seem to have the same bother with links between such places and London.
“…he was sponge-fingered by someone in his own department.”
The problem with that UN story is that no links can be found in corroboration and until the 1997 cabinet papers are released, if ever, then sadly it has to read as speculation no matter how plausible the story is. The first time I read it was on The Realm of Scotland website now defunct a number of years ago.
The ambassador’s receptions are known for their exquisite taste:
“Mmm!(sniggle) Monsieur! With these caramel logs you are really spoiling us!”
I have it on the highest authority that Bath Oliver gags are verboten!
@call me dave
Astonishing! 😮
I wonder if Johann’s new found voice on an autonomous Scottish Labour is driven by 2016?
Surely no. (cough)
I’m sure she was on the very edge of mentioning it lots of times over the years at conference, in parliament, in front of cameras and on couches, whilst acting as a support act for Ed, Gordon, Jim on their many visits.
She just never got the chance is all… Yeah, that must be it. 🙂
I remember Johan Lamont and Jim Murphy saying the very same thing.
Scottish Labour just can’t seem to be able to evolve.
The Dead Parrot Party
Why not treat them the exact same way as the BBC and Print Media treat the SNP Don’t mention them unless there’s something horrible to say about them
Although even better not mention them at all
Folk will say if we’re not interested in the Dead Parrot Party why are we talking about them
Especially Deputy Disaster…(That Voice)
Other WW1 changes, royal family became Windsor, German Shepherd dogs became Alsatians etc, etc.
Auld Rock
O/T David Cameron and the Tory Party are pedged in their manifesto to close the tax haven tax dodging scams. Oigs will fly first. More in the post.
link to caltonjock.com
Headtracker@7.01pm,
It’s a 2 party state in Scotland as well, a Party of Government and a Party of Mismanagement.
The later being an informal Union of Numpties.
Stephen.
Ja,
Herr Cameron vill sort out the foreigners corruption
Und then “The Vorld”
Dr Jim 12.26
It’s “ze” foreigners
@Heed tracker 10.28
BBC say ”Current leader Jim Murphy is standing down this month following Labour’s poor performance at the general election’
I wonder what a bad or dreadful performance would have looked like?
OT – Whoosh
Harriet Harman: Even Labour supporters were glad we didn’t win the election.
Hello Duncy Hatstand, are you out there listening to this. Are you glad that you did not win the election… Arf… Arf.
OT
Meanwhile down in Engerland search parties are out scouring neighborhoods for the #Edstone.
One search party in the Stonehenge vicinity are quoted as saying “due to its historical significance we feel it must be somewhere on this site. But if we fail to find it we have a team on standby ready to send up to Aberlemno, Scotland to search that site also”.
@Roll_On_2015
Even people who supported Labour at last month’s election were privately relieved afterwards that the party did not win power, Harriet Harman has admitted.
She is, I surmise, talking of those that supported them “financially” through large donations NOT those that did so in the ballot box.
Labour RIP.
Thepnr: at 01:23am
I never thought about that side of it but you may be right… Imagine going into a bookies and laying out a few thousand quid and coming out afterwards and saying to yourself ‘I am glad that bugger lost’… sounds incredible but hey it’s a mixed up world… were anything is possible.
Poodling & sharing.
Well fun’ oot.
Anyways, Labour have now become irrelevant bystanders in the big picture!
In Scotland pro Indy / centre left parties, SNP + Greens, achieved 51.3% of the vote.
In Scotland Con + UKIP achieved just 16.5% of the vote.
Con + UKIP achieved 49.5% of the vote across the UK. We can assume the Con + UKIP right wing figure for England alone is well over 50%.
Clearly, the voters of the two countries have now diverged enormously in their political positioning.
Labour (and LibDems) now just sulk irrelevantly in the middle.
I did try to follow up that Scotland-UN story once, but as Cynical Highlander says, there’s no evidence at all to back it up apart from the accounts of one or two of the people who say they were involved. Even by their own account it’s a tale of a small self-appointed group taking it upon themselves to lobby on behalf of the people of Scotland.
There’s no reason to doubt that they actually made the representations they say they made, but what’s missing is any evidence they were listened to beyond sending polite acknowledgment of the correspondence.
When I tried to follow this up before the result was that I was subjected to a very abusive attack from one James Wilkie. This was on the old Scotsman pages in about 2008. He tried to find out my real identity and accused me of being someone I’m not – a journalist in pursuit of a story. He then declared that the whole story was about to become public and of course I was trying to get a scoop. This was about seven years ago and nothing has emerged.
I think it’s no more than a group of self-important people who imagined they could influence the UN and/or the Council of Europe, and who may actually believe that they caused events that in fact had nothing to do with them.
OT – Carmichael
Finances non-existent at the moment but managed a very small donation at last. Not much more than £2,000 to go to target. At least “I’m in it” in the People versus a politician, in what could be a landmark case, win or lose. Policitians should not lie, full stop. The petition:
link to shetland.gov.uk
Interesting read, it even included Carmichael forgoing his severance presumably to show acceptance of his liability. It’s all about the lie, not the leak, the lie going to character, and I think Peat Warrior had his finger on this straight away. The only defence I can see is that either the lie is not relevant, or technically he’s not another candidate so rather than besmirching another candidate, he has effectively lied about his own integrity and therefore character.
I also see from the National that the LibDems are dithering whether to pay for his defence. Well, shame on them. Their spokesperson said it was not a LibDem that leaked it, so by that they have accepted liability for their member, their candidate, their previous MP.
Saying it’s OK and give him another chance in public, then refusing to stand by their own party member is not on at all. They must pay for his defence, if he chooses to go ahead, and if they have any money left. Or they can have a “whip” round to the other MPs. I think he has to answer by today according to the National, or 10th June according to 7 days from the date stamp on the certified copy of the petition itself.
The name change was an attempt to inspire patriotism across the United Kingdom during the war, similar to the name “freedom fries” used in the United States.
They were called freedom fries in protest at France not supporting the invasion of Iraq. There were hysterical calls for everything French to be banned at the time.
Dr Jim says @11.41
“The Dead Parrot Party
Why not treat them the exact same way as the BBC and Print Media treat the SNP Don’t mention them unless there’s something horrible to say about them
Although even better not mention them at all
Folk will say if we’re not interested in the Dead Parrot Party why are we talking about them
Especially Deputy Disaster…(That Voice)”
So…em… nice weather. 🙂
__________________________________________________________
Dr Jim again? @12.26am
“Herr Cameron vill sort out the foreigners corruption
Und then “The Vorld””
Im sorry to be a grammar nazi but have you ever read a commando comic? ze! ZE!
ah’ll…eh… Ah’ll get ma packamac. 🙁
_____________________________________________________________
while Im on a roll sorry Boris I cant let this one go
Boris says @
“Oigs will fly first. ”
Oigs?
you as well?
Im sick of those oigs the mess they make of my car an I just washed it as well!
and don’t get me started on the noise, every morning at 4oclock they start with their mating noise in the gutter right outside my window,
and the bloody offspring! Jesus the racket and shit everywhere,
Oh no there’s nae brakes Aa cannie stoap, helllllppp!!!
Oh whits this button dae? it says “switch off urine extractor”, oh that’s better, some smart alec hud put that ower the off button,
thank goad they oigs are a pain in the arse an they’ve just gaun tae sleep an aw, ohhhh nnnnooo were awa again helllp!!!
__________________________________________________________
Aa deliberately kept oot oh the discussion aboot biscuits,
Aa kin jist imagine the French ambassadors face seein me surroonded by the crumbs of two packets of Abernethys a Kit Kat and three snowballs, bit Aa did leave the Carmel Wafers, Aa wid huv boaked oan thum!
___________________________________________________________
@ ME 🙂
AINT LIFE A BITCH WHENS THERE’S NO EDIT BUTTON. 🙂
you guys are gonnie hit me aren’t you?
Ah’ll tell the wife,
she doesn’t like people jumping the queue. 🙁
Almannysbunnet says@5.33
“There were hysterical calls for everything French to be banned at the time.”
I take it there was no clamour to send back the statue of liberty?
Because labour in Scotland is too wee, too dumb and too poor they believe the rest of us are the same. The message from the Scottish people is loud and clear, we believe we are big enough, smart enough and rich enough. If Labour are too stubborn to listen then they will diminish and we will forge ahead without them. That process has already started.
john king says:
I take it there was no clamour to send back the statue of liberty?
The Statue wasn’t mentioned in polite circles at the time. For some reason the anti French theme didn’t take on in Louisiana either. 🙂
Almannysbunnet says:
“Because labour in Scotland is too wee, too dumb and too poor they believe the rest of us are the same.”
Indeed 🙂
@Auld Rock says: 7 June, 2015 at 11:50 pm:
“Other WW1 changes, royal family became Windsor, German Shepherd dogs became Alsatians etc, etc.”
Aye! Auld Rock, and a muckle wheen o gadgies becam deid an tuckie tae.
Why, when anyone mentions Kezia, I picture her with a tall black pointed hat on her head and a beesom broom in her hand?
Same old, same old from Labour.
I remember Johann Lamont and Jim Murphy repeating the same message as Keiza is now – and look what happened to them…
Just watched a wee bit of Sky news( while on my way to RT!) on the EU and Obama doing his interfering bit .
I’m really getting a tad tired of Obama and Washington and
of course Mr Camerons smug wee face right beside him.
Personally , I am relying on Mrs Merkel to tell them both just how important they are.
@boris.
If you’re still around laughing at john king’s post, I’m leaving an o/t question for you on Off Topic, which sounds like a plan.
I see the Smith agreement is heading for its second reading today…
… no, I don’t think its going to be any more successful this time round either.
The ‘VOW’ is already trashed. Without the permanency of the Scottish parliament being enshrined in a constitution (One of Broon’s guarantees), the game’s already a bogey, but that’s not the capper. No, the capper is the whole ‘consulting the Scotland office’ scenario. Its a veto as we’re all perfectly aware and it runs right through the whole proposal. I don’t recall anywhere in Brown’s selling pitch the mention of a Scottish parliament requiring anyone’s permission on which course a Scottish parliament should take to ensure the Scottish public’s economic well being.
Because that is what it means. Our parliament can come up with a plan/fiscal proposal aimed at improving our economic lot, take it to the Scotland office for a bit of a consultation and then we get told whether we can proceed or not. That’s a veto yes? One parliament having final say over the actions of another? So much for near federalism and powerhouse, decision making parliament then.
Our media and the Better Together campaign have a lot to live down. They convinced just enough people to vote no. They certainly gave the more cautious or undecided an excuse with such guarantees. It didn’t have to be much, just enough in terms of numbers to push the vote their way in the final days of a tight campaign and what we have now is the reality of those ‘guarantees’.
I’d say this constitutes a failure to deliver on an agreed outcome from a national vote, wouldn’t you? I can absolutely ‘guarantee’ you the Scottish government would have delivered an independent, fully empowered and sovereign parliament, no question. So what’s Dave’s problem? He’s got a majority government. His enemies bar one, are dust and in disarray, should be eezy peezy lemon squeezy to deliver in full on even the Smith proposals never mind Gordy’s jam surely. Except its not, never was and this was known long before Scotland’s champion photoshopped that bullshit front page. They simply and conveniently forgot to mention that Parliament doesn’t just require that you follow the procedure of white papers, bills and readings, oh no. It also requires ‘votes’ in those two houses, votes in a cement mixer of party politics, vested interests and outright opposition to devolution, never mind independence. It was never as simple as a signature, a nod and a wink.
Happily we can rectify poor choices as and when we choose to do so.
@ Macart.8.16 am
Thanks Mac. As usual, you cut through the crap and deliver the salient points with your incisive assessment of the nonsense we’ll be hearing later today.
Having listened to the sales pitch of the candidates for the UK Labour Party leadership I wonder how any member in Scotland can look at those policies and consider them aligned with the original Labour values.
Labour are a right wing party now and Kezia pretending that her branch office can be different is nonsense.
We will continue the same lie. One story for Middle England and another for Scotland. Kezia still hasn’t grasped that the electorate are aware of this vile manipulation and have already rejected it.
…thank goodness for the Internet
Morning all,
Reading James Robertson’s novel And the Land Lay Still,(would highly recommend it) it is a political history of Scotland from 1950 to the present with a host of characters intertwined through it.
There is some great stuff about the 70’s and the run up to the first devolution ref,also the threat the SNP where to the Labour vote, and how Harold Wilson schemed to get rid of what he called the problem of ‘The Nats’.
Lots of stuff i did not know about i have posted a link in ref to the ‘Scottish Labour Party’ which some of the younger folk may find interesting.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Another day of “what a bloody nerve they’ve got”
link to archive.is
“Among the media issues likely to be discussed is Sturgeon’s experiences dealing with the media before and after the election – during which she was called the “most dangerous woman in Britain” – as well as her plans for broadcasting in Scotland as the BBC approaches charter renewal. ”
I’d begin with thanking rancid The Graun for painting swastikas on me, the sadomasochist and incest slanders, the relentless Sturgeon/Salmond accused, Scotland is a shit hole run by morons etc, maybe a power point presentation of progressive liberal British journalism in the actual real world, without their ghastly pretence at being a “nice” newspaper.
They talk of the corruption inside FIFA as tantamount to re-running the nomination of the next two World Cup events.
No such suggestion for a new Referendum from merry England for the lies told to the population of Scotland, or the phony powers offered, done to keep the elite of Whitehall in power.
Gordon Brown refuses to be interviewed about the promises he made but could never keep. Who would put their trust in a man like that?
Folks,
Lest we forget. As far as Westminster is concerned . . .
“Power devolved is power retained” A veto by any other name would still smell putrid.
@Bittie Glaikit,
Wow! That IS dynamite reading & worth reposting. Thank you.
link to ncdiblog.wordpress.com
The BBC lists seven demands that David Cameron will present to the EU. “Protecting the City of London financial market from EU legislation” is no. 6 on the list but it looks like the main objective is to stop anyone interfering with the City of London’s (and the Tory Party donor’s) gravy train. Which is what we suspected anyway.
link to bbc.co.uk
@G4jeepers
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Kezia’s argument – yes, we only want to get a bit pregnant.
I want to know what drugs she is on and can I have some?
@Grouse Beater
That’s a good point you made there but the bribes were done in 1706 just in time for the 1707 Union. Oh! the guarantee has got lost, no redress there then.
🙂
Meanwhile in the Herald. The cut and thrust of politics. Oh how we all laughed!
—————————————————————
A TORY MP had to apologise last night after coming under fire for making a sick joke in the House of Commons about Scots being sold into slavery.
During a debate on Thursday, the new Tory MP for South East Cambridgeshire, Lucy Frazer, laughed about how Oliver Cromwell defeated the Scots at Dunbar and sent them as “slaves to the colonies” which had her fellow Tories guffawing and chortling with joy.
Since Frazer, a former Queen’s Counsel barrister, made the comments she has received angry messages sent to her Facebook page from Scots upset over the Tories’ making light of slavery.
Last night she apologised after being contacted by the Sunday Herald, saying: ‘I am extremely sorry for any offence I have caused. That was not my intention. I have the highest regard for Scotland and the Scottish people.’
Her inflammatory comments follow a row over SNP MPs clapping in the House of Commons.
The MPs clapped on at least three separate occasions during the response to their leader at Westminster, Angus Robertson. The speaker John Bercow told the SNP contingent to “show some respect”.
During her maiden speech, mother-of-two Frazer talked about her constituency’s chequered and colourful political past.
She said: “It is the home of Oliver Cromwell who defeated the Scots at Dunbar, incorporated Scotland into his Protectorate and transported the Scots as slaves to the colonies. ”
Frazer then waited until the laughing, sneering and ‘here, heres’ abated before adding: “Now there is an answer to the West Lothian question – but not one that of course I would recommend.
———————————————————–
Capella at 9.22
Yes, protecting London from interfering Brussels must be a prime objective.
You cover that disgusting avarice, by screaming at Europe about anti corruption, on the back of the FIFA fiasco.
Cameron makes me sick, probably because I dearly want to believe he is stupid, but he’s not.
I wonder why people now appear to believe that an “apology” fixes anything, no matter how offensive.
I agree that in many instances that is all that people want, but that is predicated on their belief that the apology is sincere. There is absolutely no reason to think this one is sincere, since it was made in a prepared intervention by a QC: not a slip of the tongue nor a comment which could have been construed as a badly phrased distortion of an OK underlying sentiment.
When you show your true opinions you should at least stand by them. It compounds the offence if you mouth an apology and some warm words which are clearly at odds with your views. People are not fooled by this and such folk debase the currency of apology
Wait, hold on – was that a whole clip without any mention of SNP = Bad?
Are things changing?
Dave-I would sincerely hope that incident at WM would at least persuade one no voter to convert to yes. After all we were supposed to be better together.
Capella,
The Remambrancer would expect nothing less.
Whoops another Oig!
A wilderness of peace blog has an article on the Lucy Frazer slavery piece
link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
First Minister in visit to New York this week.
No mention of it on the round up of the papers today on the BBC, although there is a short piece on the BBC website but it makes no mention of her appearance on the Daily Show? That is to be found at the Herald who have picked up on the fact that she was billed as a comedian hence the headline
‘Nicola Sturgeon’s Daily Show appearance is no joke’ it then goes on to quote a tory MSP.
Scottish Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone called on the First Minister to “sort out the mess” the SNP was making of Scotland “instead of eyeing up an appearance on Jon Stewart’s Daily Show.’
I despair 🙁
Fiona, Quite.
@call me dave
Yes, yes it was her intention to cause offence. It was entirely her intention to put opposition members in their place and provoke inappropriate response.
Unfortunately for Ms Frazer, the response has been entirely appropriate and she has only succeeded in bringing shame to herself and her own benches.
Taranaich has a detailed account of this dark incident which Ms Frazer and those braying asses found so humorous on his own site.
link to wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com
These people have the charge of governing the UK, serving and caring for the population of these islands… and they laughed and here, here’d. Our benches were rebuked for clapping and showing what was considered a lack of respect to the house. Their benches didn’t get diddly squat for finding slavery, forced marches and torture funny. Respect… yeah, right.
Strange rules they have in that big hoose on the Thames.
The BBC presents the EU demands as what “Britain” wants from the reforms. Anyone remember being asked?
The destruction of the Scottish fishing industry as a bargaining chip to let “Britain” join the EU is another devastating paper by the people who wrote about the Scotland UN Committee.
link to electricscotland.com
We should be demanding compensation, but that would no doubt end up in the coffers of Westminster.
@ Fiona (9.55am) Re; Apologies.
Well said, it’s something that’s irked me for some time.
We seem to be living in a society (politically at least) which thinks you can do what you damnwell please because, eventually, what the heck, you can say sorry and all will be well again.
Sorry is a word which is meant to be sparingly used but above all else it is supposed to be used sincerely.
I am also a very firm believer in if you have to ask for an apology it is far too late to be expecting or accepting one.
These days the word is either thrown around as meaningless and freely as confetti or you find people and companies who should have apologised long ago taking forever and a day to apologise, in some cases years.
Hope that makes sense, i know how i feel and think on this topic but struggle to clearly put it across.
Redwood:Radio 5 live news.
“We want to be friends with them, trade with them but not ruled by them”
Oh the irony! Europe referendum not same as the Sottish referendum. 🙂
Gordon Brewer did mention Nicola’s trip to the USA but it was along the lines of a gossipy auld wifie.
“Fit about Nicla gan to the USA, fa dis she think she is, fit’s at a aboot, wid she nae be better bidin at hame and sortin oot Scotland, an she’s billed as a comic ha ha.” Can’t remember the guest but he said “to be fair she is not the first First Minister to visit the USA and she is giving a talk to the world bank and meeting with the IMF.”
Brewer “Aye well we’re out of time” and nae doot under his breath “shit that didnae work oot the way I wanted.”
The people I meet in London detest us.
It takes me all my strength not to punch a nose from all the taunting.
You get asked to resign association from institutions there should Scotland regain its independence, as if somehow, those institutions were UK-wide savvy in the first place, or cared a damn about representing the UK. “British” this, “British” that means nothing to them other than they consider themselves UK-national.
Just convincing them to get their noses out of the London trough and look around at the talent that lies elsewhere is almost impossible. They’re London-centric.
Call me Dave: That’s a good point you make
And you too. Money changing hands passed as one thing, accepted as another, sounds like many decade of attempts to swindle Scotland out of its democracy.
And Brown’s pathetic insularity, refusing to discuss his phony guarantees with the press reminds us of FIFA’s Jack Warner, a bully making money from corrupt practices.
@ewen
Thanks for the link. Never knew the underlying gory details.
Makes what she said even more a stupid thing to say.
PS
Got my first plastic £5 Clydesdale Bank note yesterday.
A wee bit like wagon wheels much smaller!
But “the pound in your pocket etc etc” one for the older readers.
Jackie: Scottish Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone called on the First Minister to “sort out the mess” the SNP was making of Scotland “instead of eyeing up an appearance on Jon Stewart’s Daily Show.’
Another example of England telling Scotland it hates us and is still in control. We are reminded we are on a lease as far as devolution is concerned, and better keep our rented home clean and tidy or we will get turfed out.
We must be going up in the world – Salmond only got interviewed on Craig Ferguson’s late, late chat show; Sturgeon gets the prestigious opinion-forming Jon Stewart ‘Daily Show’, although it has a new presenter these days.
O/T
The Edinburgh South Yes Hub is trying to raise funds:
link to twitter.com
link to indiegogo.com
Please support them, and get involved, if you live in Edinburgh.
@Grouse Beater
“We must be going up in the world – Salmond only got interviewed on Craig Ferguson’s late, late chat show; Sturgeon gets the prestigious opinion-forming Jon Stewart ‘Daily Show’, although it has a new presenter these days.
I suspect its a case of Alex opened the door and Nicola has been invited in.
It should be pointed out to folk that recognition on the world stage is essential. Its about trade, investment, profile and relationships. That Scotland is normalised as being seen to be an entity in its own right and not as simply an appendage.
Such recognition is a sure sign of being all ‘growed up’ and being taken seriously. You’d think Alex Johnstone would be aware of how politics on the world stage works and that as First Minister of Scotland, its kinda part and parcel of what Nicola Sturgeon is required to do in our name, but apparently not.
I don’t think Mr Johnstone will need to worry about such things after 2016s elections. 😉
Macart says:
8 June, 2015 at 11:11 am
@Grouse Beater
Pretty sure (maybe wrong) Alex Johnston MSP – Tory List was not elected he was put up as a list candidate to make up the numbers.
Aint’t it funny how these ‘list chappies’ Willie Rennie, Ruth Davidson, Kezia Dugdale are the loudest drums with the least benefit to the Scottish Parliamentary process?
For this abuse alone we need to be rid of the stooopid process that the demented UK-ist mentality forced onto our democracy.
@ Grouse Beater 10.54
I would really appreciate an explanation of the tortured logic that moves us from:
“Scottish Conservative MSP Alex Johnstone called on the First Minister …. ”
to:
“Another example of England telling Scotland it hates us ….”
@Barontorc
I think you’re right enough Johnstone was list.
Carmichael waiting to see if the Lib/Dems will cough up for his legal expenses. Last day tomorrow (Tuesday) if he to contest it.
PS:
Moodie’s strip in the ‘National’ commenting on the Lucy Frazer’s maiden speech. (Why Sturgeon wearing ear-phones?)
PPS:
Mundell refused to contribute a bit for the ‘National’ on the Scotland Bill. But no such luck for us readers with wee Wullie getting a couple of columns to remind us that…
“The fact remains that the Scotland Bill will make the Scottish Parliament ‘ONE’ of the most powerful devolved in the world.
————————————————————
🙂 Not the MOST devolved then..been downgraded, ach well!
@ ewan Thanks for the ‘Wildnernessofpeace’ link. Just makes one even more determined to achieve Independence for Scotland when thinking of the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of miserable, powerless people who have suffered at their hands over the centuries. More than anything the brave souls who have striven to put up a good fight against them under the most horrendous of conditions / odds.
I noticed another link in the comment section outlining the hellish abuse of Irish men, women and children and the numbers sold into slavery.
For decades if not centuries we’ve, in Scotland, had the English version of Scottish and Irish history stuffed down our throats and of course along the way they’ve tried to cover up their dastardly deeds.
They’ve got a great deal to answer for and people like Ms Frazer are just part of a new generation of Tory ‘spinners’ who clearly hold the Scots (anyone outside the south of England) in total contempt.
They’ve invaded over 80% of countries on the planet for the sole purpose of stealing their resources and before leaving (or being kicked out) made a point of creating mayhem by turning one person against the other, neighbour against neighbour: and they’re still at it here and abroad.
link to globalresearch.ca
sensibledave: I would really appreciate an explanation of the tortured logic
There is no fucking logic involved in irrational hatred.
And you have just demonstrated it.
@ Grouse Beater 10.44
You wrote “The people I meet in London detest us”.
I rather suspect you are getting close to understanding things better Grousey. Replace the last word in the quote above to “me” and I think you might be on to something. If you deal with the people “you” meet in London, the way you write about England and the English on here, then I am not surprised at all.
People in London, generally speaking, don’t like nasty, racist, lying comments.
ClanDonald,
“By not standing for election on the UK Labour manifesto is he therefore acting illegally?”
Not illegally because UK OK politicians have the purring queen’s licence to lie with impunity.
He was breaking Labour Party rules.
But Labour today is led today by the most dishonest and corrupt politicians in the country.
They don’t give a damn about their rules being broken as long as it is in the London based party’s interests.
People in London, generally speaking, don’t like nasty, racist, lying comments.
Tell that to the relatives of Stephen Lawrence.
Are the eyebrows real?
They look strange.
You know what, I am going to come out and publicly declare it
Johann Lamont was the Best Scottish Labour Leader ever, she is the only one that REALLY TOLD THE TRUTH when she lobbed that grenade about Scottish Labour being treated as a branch office
Ever since that comment, Scottish Labour have been trying so hard to prove that they aren’t and as we saw with Jim Murphy, got his arse spanked for daring to speak out, offering a different “policy” to Westminster Labour actual agenda
So who will join me in prising Johann Lamont then?
Labour carrying on in the same old way.
Yvette Cooper wants to win middle England and Scotland back, Brown / Darling tried it using their queen’s English and Ock aye the noo Scottish accents.
The party born in Scotland will die in Scotland.