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Wings Over Scotland


The highlights reel

Posted on March 21, 2017 by

Today the Scottish Parliament spent several hours heatedly debating a motion to call for a second Section 30 order to enable a new independence referendum (several more will follow tomorrow before the vote). We watched all of it so you didn’t have to, and are delighted to present you with a few clips that probably won’t make the news.

On such a momentous topic, this was the intervention that Scottish Labour list MSP Monica Lennon felt was the most pressing issue to raise, for example:

We’re very touched, obviously, and will add it to our file of other mentions in the chamber and elsewhere. But there were probably more important things to discuss.

(We’re not sure why Lennon is bothered by who Christina McKelvie retweets – if she’s blocked, she won’t see them anyway. And as it happens, Lennon has a bit of a nerve complaining about other people engaging with controversial figures on Twitter.)

Elsewhere in the debate, we were startled by the sudden unexpected candour of Anas Sarwar, head of the infamous and short-lived Scottish Labour 2014 Truth Team:

And then unsurprised at the weaselly cowardice of useless Tory goon Brian Whittle, who made a snide attack on the First Minister then didn’t have the guts to stand by it.

But the most impressive feat was surely that of the SNP MSP for Glasgow Cathcart, James Dornan, who addressed numerous hypocritical Tory claims about the Scottish Government’s mandate by reminding Ruth Davidson of a zinger of a quote she made during election night 2011, which embarrassed the Conservative leader so much that she actually vanished (or maybe just hid under her desk).

We suppose it’s too much to hope that he can pull the same trick tomorrow on Jackie Baillie, but we’re keeping our fingers crossed.

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    1. 21 03 17 21:56

      The highlights reel | speymouth

    159 to “The highlights reel”

    1. How can three separate parties sound so similar?

    2. One_Scot says:

      The best bit for me was seeing ‘Jamie and his magic beard’

    3. Smallaxe says:

      Thank you, Rev Stu, Now have a good scrub with carbolic soap and go and get yourself a few pints, you certainly deserve it for sitting through that pile of shite.

      Peace Always

    4. Ghillie says:

      Toomb Tabards.

    5. Lenny Hartley says:

      When I used to live in the North East my Aberdonian colleagues used to think I had a Glasgow accent which used to rile me as an Arran accent is nothing like a Wegie one. I am being honest here , have not a sco bie what that Blis Quine said can somebody do a Stanley Baxter for me and translate?

    6. caz-m says:

      Laugh of the night has to go to the Anas Sanwar video.

      What a prize plumb that eejit is.

      LOL!!!

      “Comedy Gold” as Mr Brotherhood would say.

    7. Lynne T says:

      Aah good old Monica. I saw her at a hustings event prior to the election, and when asked why the Labour Party manifesto was not ready, her reply was “last time we did it earlier and the SNP copied everything in it for their own manifesto.” Good to see she’s keeping up her level of playground politics.

    8. Paula Rose says:

      When does making it obvious that you are incapable of running anything more than a Community Council seem like a good idea?

    9. Dr Jim says:

      I’me sure all the usual suspects will lie their way through this referendum even more than the last one but here’s something for them to think on, what do they expect would happen following the referendum if they happened to win with those tactics

      Done and dusted? business as usual? back to normal? settle down and forget it? the people have spoken? no more referendums?

      On another note, note being the operative word as I refer to currency
      Who’s picture will be on the British money when the Queen (goad bless er) keels over, do we think the UK will accept King Charles foty on the money then supported by Kings consort Camilla the Duchess of whatever new handle they will endow her with

      Maybe that’s worth a think because let’s face it, it wont be long will it before it’s God bless King Charles and,,,,,, Princess Camilla?

    10. Macandroid says:

      @ Lenny

      Think she said “Oh hey look at me, I can stand up all on my own, ‘an Ahm awfy clever cos I know about yon Twitter thingy ‘an Wings over North Britain, ‘an ‘at so Ah do.”

    11. Alt Clut says:

      A timely reminder of what a pathetically feeble bunch of troughers the opposition consists of. If that is unionism’s ‘A Team’ in Scotland….

    12. bugsbunny says:

      “….because we didn’t tell Scotland the truth in 2014”

      Too bloody right you didn’t you lying c**nts. Probably the only time he’s told the truth.

    13. Breeks says:

      Most profound thing I heard today was Patrick Harvie.

      Scroll through to 48:50

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08lhxql/scottish-parliament-21032017

      Well said that man.

    14. Free Scotland says:

      Was Anas Sarwar speaking on behalf of the Labour party when he said: ” … we didn’t tell Scotland the truth in 2014?”

    15. DebzoHighland says:

      Honesty from Anas!
      Didn’t think he was capable! 😉

    16. Lochside says:

      Watched the BBC ‘Debate’ with Two jobs Tompkins, resident colonial Praetorian and bumbling, mumbling Fiona Hyslop. The former abetted, as per usual by Glenn ‘ripped SNP manifesto’ Campbell.

      It was like watching 2014 all over again…Groundhog day. Campbell interrupting and haranguing hapless Hyslop. Oh..and with a primed partisan audience. I gave up half way through. Yes it was a fit up…yet again…But FFS when are the SNP going to waken up and get the right people in front of the camera? Hyslop is sloppy and unprepared. She talks in half sentences and has no conviction.Whose pal is she?

      This time it’s really for keeps, let’s start acting like it. Mairi Black or Joanne Cherry would have wiped the floor with Charles Hawtrey look alike Tompkins….SNP take note:please no more reruns.

    17. Mike says:

      If you try and imagine this debate from an outside point of view. To look at it from outside an axe to grind perspective what possible conclusion can you reach but seeing one side offering Ice cream while the other side offers Arsenic.

      To these people its as clear as crystal.

      BUT Sadly there are STILL people in Scotland who are confused about which side of the argument is offering which.

      And I find that breathtaking and unfathomable. I really do.

    18. Arbroath1320 says:

      Is it just me or is it patently obvious that when the unionists are shitting truck loads of bricks and have absolutely no answers to ANYTHING they always refer to that most awful of awful websites called Wings over Scotland for some solace. 😀

      I can’t say “I don’t know what you’re doing Stu” cause like everyone with half a brain cell I know EXACTLY what you are doing. 😉

      With your panache for upsetting the Yoons by blowing their LIES out the water and delivering the actual TRUTH then it is little surprise that THEY “admire” you so much. 😀

    19. Auld Rock says:

      I set out to watch and it was the expected polished, professional and to the point. Then up popped ‘Tank Commander’ and there followed a diatribe of out and out lies and falsehoods, at this point I started losing my will to live and after ‘Dopey Dug’ got started I succumbed and headed off to make a cuppa. Timing my return just as Patrick Harvie started speaking and it as one of his best speeches to Parliament. So the afternoon progressed with the Yoons descending into fantasy and mythology and give me Greek or Norsk anytime. The afternoon closed with an absolute belter of a speech from Mike Russell.

      Auld Rock

    20. Artyhetty says:

      What is it that these yoons want to say, or discuss, or debate, exactly. How their own country should be dragged over the cliff, should be continually lied to, (ta for that truism, Sarwar,lol) and treated as a second, no, third class country? Then the usual, bringing the level of the Scottish parliament down to who says what about who on twitter! Ffs.

      As my dad used to say, ‘if you’ve got nothing intelligent or useful to say, the don’t say anything’. I think we can apply that to these time and money wasters, the yoons, attempting to stifle democracy in Scotland, with their unintelligent piffle. No thanks.

    21. Roughian says:

      @Lochside 10.12
      I agree Hyslop is not up to the mark. When Tompkins was harping on about UK selling into a truly free market anywhere in the world, she should have floored him with addition costs of supply to more distant markets than Europe and tariffs on selling into Europe. Unless you’ve a monopoly or a truly unique product it’s the buyer who decides the price not the seller.

    22. Ken500 says:

      The Holyrood Unionists are such blatant hypocrites, in the secrecy of the Ballot – they probably vote YES. Would not put it pass them.

      Their present performance knows no bounds. Set to music it could be a Monty Python musical. Imagine them tap dancing around the Chamber in unison. Not lap dancing. Or ‘Six brides for six brothers’. Or was it twelve. They usually double all the deficit figures. There is certainly a deficit among that lot. Soft shoe shuffle.

      Ice skating around Dynamic Earth. How dynamic they are.

    23. ScottishPsyche says:

      SLab are obsessed with social media to the point where the scoring of petty points are more important than real life. How did someone like Monica Lennon get elected? And tonight Neil Findlay, how does he expect any respect after that?

      The saving grace of all the reruns of 2014 arguments are that maybe the Indy parties can get on with answering them quickly and concentrate on presenting how a new Scotland could look in the changing landscape.

    24. Arbroath1320 says:

      Just thought I’d post this here. 😉

      This is what a “future member of the Scottish government” tweeted about an hour ago.

      If anyone wondered about the level of complete lack of intelligence and respect currently wallowing within Labour then this exemplifies it perfectly in my view.

      https://twitter.com/NeilFindlay_MSP/status/844297064146186240

    25. Mike says:

      People recognise and relate to people who speak with conviction and heartfelt articulation.
      They can tell by inflection those who speak in terms of rhetoric and insincerity relative to those who speak from the heart.

      Mhairi Black for example became an overnight political sensation simply because she spoke with conviction and true purpose. people believed what she said because she sounded like she meant it.

      In relative terms we listen to PMQs and see nothing but an act. A stage managed performance between 2 performers acting a roll that allows unchallenged force and application of policy and demands to be perpetrated on all of us.

      How often do we have to endure politicians mouthing words and phrases without any tone of conviction without any passion? without any sincerity?

      How much worse is it to know this circus performs outwith our own National Individual control and authority? where our collective influence is overwhelmed by the collective influence of somebody else?

      This we view and accept as a “Democratic process” in spite of the fact that this circus can and so often is performed with as little as less than 30% of voter support.

      A voter support outwith Scotland.

      In what universe is this a Union? In what fantasy is this a Union of equals?

    26. Ken500 says:

      Thatcher suddenly regurgitated in the TV. A ghost from the past. The IRA nearly blew her up.

      The war criminal Blair covered in thick make up. Quite red lipstick. Alarming.

    27. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah I get it. A complete raving lunatic dickhead is one who makes allusions about complete raving lunatic dickheads so they can’t be ruled as using unparliamentary language. Whittle is making illusions about being a complete raving lunatic dickhead.

      I didn’t say that, no he didn’t.

    28. ScottieDog says:

      Anyone else watch interview with Jim sillars on independence live?
      Quite enjoyed it apart from the fist stamping and it’s a shame jim isn’t onside.
      I’m actually in agreement with Jim in terms of EFTA over the EU but his belief that a YES vote is more likely post Brexit is a big gamble for me.

      He also overlooks the fundamental reason for indyref2 – the material change based on the desire of most Scots to remain in the EU and facing being dragged out against their will and giving them an opt out of Brexit.

    29. joannie says:

      I see Norman Tebbit’s still alive, he looks like one of the zombies from Michael Jackson’s Thriller.

      Someone give Anas Sarwar a gold star for telling the truth, a rarity in politics these days.

    30. Bob Sinclair says:

      James Dorman, a total legend.

    31. Mike says:

      To see ourselves as other see us.

      Fuck me. I honestly feel like I wished the ground had opened up and took me somewhere impossibly deep.

      How the fuck is a National identity supposed to keep its dignity with this level of self depreciation self harm self immolation self capitulation self indignation self denial self humiliation etc etc.

      How is it possible to view this level of internal self depreciation without shame?

    32. bittie45 says:

      OT, but are the media not going to make a meal of the difference between these two petitions?
      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168781
      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/180642

    33. Clootie says:

      ….I can”t watch it….please don’t make me 🙁

    34. Ian McCubbin says:

      Brilliant just wish Ruthie had spoken and put both feet in it.
      Loved James so cool.
      All creed here Stu thanks to Whinie and Christina.

    35. yesindyref2 says:

      Ohmugud they’ve dug up Catherine McLeod. A nasty person would say they had to rummage through the coup to get a better candidate, but I wouldn’t describe myself as a nasty person.

    36. Jock McDonnell says:

      @ScottieDog
      given Sillars was an architect of the SNPs Europe policy, I find his interventions a bit ironic, of course that original policy was founded in the 80s and the EU has changed. Ultimately though – independence from Westminster brings most benefit to Scotland – EU or not.

    37. Richardinho says:

      My only criticism of this post is that you don’t linger a bit longer on the Sarwar quote so the faces of the Labour MSPs can be scrutinised. What on earth was he thinking? What must they be thinking?

      In reality, it hardly matters what these people say: They can contradict themselves, they can tell blatant lies, they can exhibit the most egregious double standards; so long as they say it in the correct snarling tone they can say almost anything that they like.

    38. Fireproofjim says:

      Compliments to Andrew Neil (yes!!!!) for making Murdo Fraser look foolish.

    39. yesindyref2 says:

      The supposed ex adviser SNP guy is no better either.

    40. heedtracker says:

      Its a great mention though, in such a big Holyrood debate, by Lennon there, who is demonstrably not as bright as she looks, sadly. People say I’m like Mon there, pretty but quite thick:D

      But then again, OMG, WoS is mainstream!

    41. Clapper57 says:

      @ Lochside

      “Oh..and with a primed partisan audience. I gave up half way through. Yes it was a fit up…yet again…But FFS when are the SNP going to waken up and get the right people in front of the camera? Hyslop is sloppy and unprepared. She talks in half sentences and has no conviction.Whose pal is she”?

      Agree Lochside re Fiona Hyslop….SNP need to get someone like Jeane Freeman on .

      Re audience perhaps, if you turned off, you did not see Fatty McFatFace and the lady next to him Screwy McScrewUpFace who frankly were the epitome of Unionist aggression if ever one had to show visual examples.

      I too turned off as came to conclusion this debate must have been a repeat first shown some time pre September 2014 !

    42. velofello says:

      Rev, I think we need a wee reminder of the Holyrood voting results, particularly as Tomkins has been awarded a lead role in NAW. He speaks for -13,500 voters in his patch, as a list MSP, now that’s what you call a mandate. You could opinion that he is sitting at Holyrood due to a deliberately distorted voting system, but that will not stop him. Self awareness? No chance.

      Whoever votes against the referendum proposal tomorrow, well hell mend them.

    43. arthur thomson says:

      I was appalled to observe that the leaders of the three unionist parties had clearly colluded in their plan of attack. How could this be?

      The Tories, the Pound Shop Tories and the 99p Tories, in it together.

      How this is happening? Are they saps, being manipulated by moles planted in each of their branch offices? Or maybe they are they dutifully taking their instructions from London HQ? Or have they, on their own initiative, set up a mechanism by which to plan how they will co-ordinate their undermining of the democratic process with their lies.

      Are they a parcel of rogues or just three stooges?

      I’m not sure that it even matters but it is appalling to observe.

    44. jfngw says:

      @bittie45

      Once either of the petitions reach 2.1 million from Scotland then they have a majority of the electorate. But as you can vote pretty much as often as you can be bothered and you can put in any postcode with these they are pretty meaningless.

      Oh and the against one was on Rep Scot tonight (21st), they forgot to mention anyone in the UK can vote.

    45. Returnofthemac says:

      Have given up watching these ‘balanced debates’.No time for any of the ‘impartial’ presenters on any channel. The shit has already started coming our way folks better get used to it.
      Just noticed a piece on twitter don’t know if it was today or old news on the first minister’s constituency (ITV) Ffs it is Glasgow (labour) Council’s responsibility to clean up the area.
      Oh and by the way the Queensferry crossing is late.
      Get a life…..

    46. Legerwood says:

      bittie45 says:
      21 March, 2017 at 10:56 pm
      OT, but are the media not going to make a meal of the difference between these two petitions?
      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168781
      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/180642 “”

      ………

      Yes, the media and uncle Tom cowley and all are definitely going to make a meal of this. The constant refrain from Ms Davidson et al is that people don’t want another referendum and this gives them ammunition to back up the claim.

      I heard the petition and the numbers who had signed it, the one about not wanting a second referendum, mentioned on Reporting Scotland this evening.

      They have then once more set the agenda and on yet another topic the Yes side get into convoluted explanations as to why the difference in the numbers don’t reflect reality – and folk say ‘Aye right’

      Surely you are all sufficiently media savvy by now to see how this will be used. The best way to shut it down is a concerted effort to get people to sign the petition about wanting a second referendum. Otherwise you will become bogged down in a constant too and fro on the issue to the detriment of the issues that count.

    47. geeo says:

      Monica Lennon is Labours Online activity co-ordinator in Scotland.

      I have a lovely picture of her posing with notorious Troll, Del Rashid, holding up ‘team monica’ posters during the 2016 SE campaign.

      Her online chums go mental when i post the picture and let everyone see it….?

    48. ian m says:

      We are very early in the process and this is a good opportunity for the SNP to blood a few spokesfolk in the hack and slash of adverserial interviews.
      Keep in mind that we are the geeks on this stuff and the public never see half of what goes on.
      Which of course is a problem when the Yoons screw up

    49. Iain More says:

      Now how did you get the Mon to give you free publicity Rev?

    50. Still Positive says:

      Re Anas Sarwar’s comment above.

      He went on to describe the SG’s White paper as a lie.

      I and may others could have accepted a ‘No Vote’ if it had been won fair and square – but it wasn’t.

      The establishment parties lied to get the result they wanted.

      I have supported Scottish independence since Winnie Ewing won the Hamilton bye-election in November 1967.

      The unionist parties in the Scottish Parliament today were an absolute disgrace – talking down Scotland at every opportunity.

      I managed to get a badge at the SNP Conference last weekend which says, ‘Stop the world Scotland wants to get on’. The words Winnie Ewing said in 1967.

      I also managed to speak to her son Fergus who told me his mum inspired many.

    51. Col says:

      Yes the BBC did a great job of PROMOTING the petition AGAINST having another ref!

    52. Chick McGregor says:

      Erm, wouldn’t the EU negotiators prefer it to be known whether Scotland is leaving the UK before talks with the (r)UK are finalised?

      Many UK negotiation points, e.g. fishing rights, are contingent on whether Scotland is in or out of the UK.

      Surely both decisions, Brexit and Scoot, need to be known quantities before any sensible negotiations can take place.

    53. Capella says:

      I thought Mike Russell made an excellent summing up speech. Pointed out how absurd the Tories are in their effort to veto democracy. More fun to come tomorrow. It’s going to be a long 3 hours till the vote.

    54. TheStrach says:

      I never watch the 3 Tory parties as it’s detrimental to my health. Same goes for the BBC.

      Entirely predictable that the London parties speak with one voice.

      Democracy will win later today.

    55. Swami Backverandah says:

      from twitter:
      “Adam Tomkins, er, reinterprets the classic Kenyon Wright ‘we say yes’ quote: “We are the people, and we said no. And we meant it”

      Dear Adam – I’ve put this together for you to use:
      “We are the people, and we said no, and we’ve changed our minds. That’s what we do when lies are exposed.That’s what we’re expected to do. Otherwise, we remain complicit”.

    56. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Lochside @ 22:12,

      I had a virtually identical reaction to yours which I appended onto the previous thread, but (if you all will excuse me) I’ll re-post here:

      I watched a part of that programme on catchup and have regretted it ever since. The format was weary with all the familiar hoary old faults we remember so well. For the first time I understood why so many people are reluctant to have a new referendum. It’s not the politics, which are even more crucial than ever, it’s the absolutely dire presentation of it on the TV.

      What particularly incensed me on this occasion was Glen Campbell’s staringly obvious one-sidedness, almost fawning like Uriah Heep over Prof Two Jobs’ every word, while on the other hand continually talking over and harassing Fiona Hyslop.

      I don’t know if it was “merely” a case of “mansplaining”, with the presenter feeling that he could talk over a “mere woman”, while having to defer to a higher-status male, or if it was just plain anti-independence bias showing through, but whatever it was, it was utterly unprofessional and thoroughly bad manners.

      It annoyed me so much that it has taken me until now to calm down enough to come back online again. I really feel like sending yet another (=sigh=) complaint to the BBC, for all the good it will do.

      But it was certainly further encouragement to turn up at PQ to register my disgust on Sunday.

    57. Macart says:

      Oh, that was neatly done by James Dornan. 😀

      As for the rest? They should take a bow. Their argument and attitude toward Holyrood, the Scottish Government and the rights of the Scottish population exemplify everything we’ve come to expect of the establishment parties.

      If nothing else, they’re consistent. 😉

    58. mr thms says:

      mr thms says:
      22 March, 2017 at 2:33 am
      I’m not sure if it has already been mentioned or if anyone has posted a link to Ruth Davidson saying the words quoted by James Dornan SNP MSP during the debate.

      Wings Over Scotland had an article about what she said at the last October… with a You Tube clip of the whole quote!

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-simple-ruth/

      “On the contentious and topical subject of what constitutes a mandate for a second independence referendum, we’re grateful to the super-alert reader who unearthed this clip from BBC Scotland’s election night coverage of 2011, in which Ruth Davidson gives a candid and blunt explanation of the criteria required:”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYjzqrRQ-rU

    59. Brian McHugh says:

      Please don’t let it be Anas Sarwar that is first to come over to Yes.

    60. defo says:

      Listicle Sarwar looks fair set to uphold our democratic rights does he not 🙂 Steady on son, mind your blood pressure !
      Mibbies his da has some jobs going.
      They’ll be as rats from a burning ship before summers out.

    61. gus1940 says:

      Unless I missed it there was no advance notice of last night’s PQ ‘Debate’ until it was trailed yesterday.

      In which case one must ask ‘How did they select the audience?’

      Surely the answer to that is it was selected by PQ who then invited the audience rather than select from applicants.

      Campbell was a disgrace and as usual did his Dimbleby impression of interrupting andpoarticipating in the debate,

    62. ian m says:

      With regards to the referendum if it is held much later than the time that Nicola proposed it will never happen.There are some serious problems going to be affecting the UK
      I came across an article which advised that pretty soon The UK are going to be facing an extreme financial crunch that has nothing to do with Brexit.
      I am off to try and find it (again)

    63. gus1940 says:

      Has it ever occurred to anybody that 310 years after the inauguration of Maggie May’s Precious Union there is no word in common usage for a citizen of The United Kingdom or Great Britain.

      The exception is the use of the word ‘Brit’ which I had never heard until it was used derogatorily by The IRA.

      We have ‘I am a Scotsman, Englishman, Welshman or Irishman’ but no one word to express one’s being a citizen of the UK.

    64. Sharny Dubs says:

      Something that worries me is that the “opposition” (in Edinburgh as well as in London) are so god awful that they make the SNP look better than they really are. Hope it’s not a strategy for a sucker punch.

    65. Ken500 says:

      Teresa May is booed and jeered in Wales. Called a Nazi.

      The cost of the Westminster/Union in Scotland since 2010.

      Per year. £1Billion on Trident, £1Billion a tax on drink. £4Billion+ in Oil revenues (Tory high taxes), (£4Billion more Oil & Gas has to be imported). £3Billion+? in tax evasion. £4Billion+ in loan repayments on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. £13Billion.

      Over 6 years = £78Billion++ Enough to have abolished poverty in Scotland and have full employment with different policies from the Westminster Tories/Unionists.

      Tompkins/Davidson’s behaviour will just put up the Independence vote. The majority in Scotland can’t stand Tories like them for good reason.

      The constant irrational and lying hypocritical attacks by the Greens in Holyrood on the SNP is damaging the Independence movement. The Greens are the most unpopular Party in Scotland for good reason. They collude with Unionist (councils) and cut revenues for essential services Education social care etc Waste, borrow and spend public money on grotesque Projects the majority do not want.getting the Councils into £Millions/Billion of debt. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. They should be put in jail for their lying corruption.

    66. Ken500 says:

      The National is brilliant today. Well done.

      Teresa May is booed and jeered in Wales and called a fascist,

      The right wing Tory Party have managed to find a leader who is hunners of times worse than Thatcher. If that is possible. The Tory Party had to get rid of Thatcher by stabbing her in the back. A stake might have been more appropriate. Thatcher had interest rates at 15% and unemployment at over 10%. Over 3 million unemployed. Can May rival that? Especially cruel to Scotland. Cruelly de ville. May looks a bit like her. Walks like a duck and talks like a duck. Lame duck. Can’t walk and talk at the same time.

    67. Ken500 says:

      In any exchanges Tompkins comes across as an arrogant, conceited ignorant bully from one of the most disliked Party in Scotland. Fiona Hyslop comes across as an extremely nice, caring women who would give folk a cuddle. A caring, competent person from the most popular Party in Scotland for good reason.

      No problem.

    68. Ken500 says:

      Teresa May will not be there to block a 2ndIndyRef. Give her 18months at max. Hundreds of times worst than Thatcher. Even looks like cruella de ville. That will not go down well. The Brexiteers are away to start on auld ladies take away their support as threatened. It will not go down well. May just going down and down to oblivion. She better come up with a plan quick. Seemingly impossible because she is so thick with such a brass neck that she is bricking it. Brexit not working out too well. Making the majority sick and anxious. Putting up the NHS bill.

      The unluckiest, unhappiest band of Brexiteers are bricking it. Making the majority in the ‘country’ very unhappy and plain glum and depressed. Most folk are really raging putting up the stress and tension. Levels. Adding to the neglectivity towards Westminster politicians as they face the backlash on the razz. The Commons bars are full of unionist alcoholic waste of space, money and time.. Troughing on public money. Alcoholics make poor decision without proper counselling, and total abstinence. The whips have come out. To whip them into shape for better compliance.

    69. Ken500 says:

      May, Corbyn and Fallon make folk feel sick. People can’t stand the sight of them. Not a happy Party in Westminster. Just friction and disillusionment for the troughing incompetents.

    70. Smallaxe says:

      Nana: Good Morning,

      Wet and miserable here this morning (the weather not me!). lovely links for breakfastThank you.Kettle’s on!
      🙂

      Peace Always

    71. Giving Goose says:

      Arthur

      They are really the same party representing the wishes of the London Establishment.

    72. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ken 500 , that cannot be right Mrs May, Ms Harrison Davidson , Mogabe , Pol Pot are far more popular than Ms Sturgeon – at least so a reliable source told me!

      I’m off to read Nana’s links – I may gone some time!

    73. JaceF says:

      Managed to catch a fair bit of the debate yesterday. Getting absolutely sick of Tory and Labour list MSP’s standing up with the absolute brass neck of trying to say that they represent the views of the majority of Scots that a second referendum shouldn’t take place. Both Tory and Labour again showing they are in collusion by reading from the same script, pathetic.

    74. Nana says:

      @Smallaxe

      Good morning. Somewhat damp and chilly day here. Never mind as there’s lots of links to read haha

      Busted!

      https://twitter.com/gturner1969/status/844297375501967360

    75. manandboy says:

      From Bloomberg Brexit Bulletin

      The PM may be fooling some of the people, but banks and business aren’t among them.

      “Barely 24 hours after U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May revealed she will trigger Brexit on March 29, banks and businesses began dusting off their contingency plans.
      Senior Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley executives said on Tuesday that they’re preparing to shift staff and operations from London to elsewhere in the European Union.

      Richard Gnodde, co-head of investment banking at Goldman Sachs, told CNBC that his bank will initially relocate hundreds of London-based employees to expanded other offices after the split, while Morgan Stanley President Colm Kelleher said he would “certainly” have to move some people.
      “It’s not going to be the end of London,” said Kelleher. “But clearly we will have to adjust.”

      Banks doubt they will be allowed to keep servicing EU customers from London as easily as now once Britain is outside the bloc. A report out today from HR consultancy Mercer says finance, where one in five staff come from abroad, could also suffer from any immigration curbs.

      Even taxpayer-owned Royal Bank of Scotland is considering options in the Netherlands, Ireland and Germany if it decides to transfer jobs.
      “Like all other banks we’re probably planning for the worst, hoping for the best,” Chief Executive Officer Ross McEwan said on Tuesday. “But there’s no point in hoping.”
      Of 15 possible sites elsewhere in the EU for banks to relocate to, Dublin is the best destination, according to an index of 15 cities compiled by relocation company Movinga. Amsterdam is the next-best destination for Brexit exiles, while Frankfurt languished in sixth.
      On the bright side? The U.K. drew more venture-capital investment last year than the next four European countries combined, according to a study from Tech City UK.

      However, finance isn’t the only industry fretting. Carmaker BMW is reviewing its factories in the U.K. and says it has the flexibility to move production elsewhere. BT Chairman Mike Rake told Bloomberg this morning that Brexit challenges are beginning to “bite.” And the Airports Council International trade body warned a lack of clarity about how Brexit will affect aviation risks obstructing the opening up of new routes by airlines.”

    76. DerekM says:

      That was a total joke,is that all you Labour,Tory and lib dems think about Scotland,think about our parliament,about our rights!

      Well as a Scot here is what i think,i think there is no place for you in Scottish politics or inside OUR Parliament.

      Are we Scots doomed to listen to these cardboard cutout tory clones forever prattling on trying to deceive the electorate.

      Labour jings what can i say you surpassed even my expectations of how idiotic it is possible to be,someone call a string theory physicist this is getting into the realms of sub molecular dimensional stupidity.

      Way to fire up that single brain cell Willie to move your mouth and make sounds congratulations,next potty training.

    77. Breeks says:

      Saw a very cynical quip on Twitter.

      And in Eastern Europe, tyrannical fascist government moves to block peaceful democratic elections in breakaway region….oh wait…

    78. Hamish100 says:

      Ken 500

      May looks like cruella de vile. , Cmon the debate for self determination has to better than that. I left primary school a long time ago and I’m looking for a more convincing argument.

      Up your game

    79. McBoxheid says:

      Dr Jim says:
      21 March, 2017 at 9:53 pm

      Maybe that’s worth a think because let’s face it, it wont be long will it before it’s God bless King Charles and,,,,,, Princess Camilla?
      _________________________

      That’ll Charles the Turd, then?

    80. AnTeallach says:

      Whey-hay, my first day of retirement so more time to read all of Nana’s great links and just in time for all the extra campaigning that’s going to be needed to get the truth out to more people in our fantastic Scotland to counter the lies and manipulation that we are bombarded with everyday by the MSM.

      Do the people of Scotland want a 2nd Indyref? Aye, we do!?

    81. AnTeallach says:

      Och smiley thing became a ?

    82. Ken500 says:

      Many women voters will identify with Fiona Hyslop being talked down and bully by two arrogant know all men. It happens to a lot of them. They will be quite content for attractive, caring, compassionate Fiona to represent them.

    83. Macart says:

      @Nana

      New Statesman and IB Times piece pretty sharp there Nana. Indyref2 blog and the James Kelly talk radio articles also well worth a mention.

      Onywho, I’m wondering if putting my screen on mute will make any odds when watching the ‘debate’ today? Probably not. The real clincher, and I would recommend everyone watches this part, is the vote.

      Worth mentioning to casual readers that what is being voted upon in that chamber today isn’t a referendum. Oh no.

      What is being voted upon is your right to request and hold a referendum. So today readers you’re going to find out loud and in living colour who would deny you the right to choose your own fate. (be it independence or union. Yes or no)

      Two of the three parties currently arguing AGAINST you having that right swore to uphold it. The third never believed you had any rights worth bothering about anyway. Still it’ll be nice to see in an official ballot just how many believe you shouldn’t have a say in your own future.

      THAT, at bare bones level, is what is really being decided today. Just who believes you have rights worth defending and who would deny you those rights.

    84. Dr Jim says:

      Man walks into his local shop and says “I’d like a Mars bar please”
      George the shop owner replies “No problem but they’ve gone up in price” The man thinks for a second and says “Eh, I’ve changed my mind I’ll have a Twix” George the shop owner says “No you can’t have a Twix you asked for a Mars bar and that’s what you’re getting whether you like it or not it’s my shop”
      The man thinks again for a moment while the shopkeeper sneers at the man for being unable to purchase his choice of confectionary

      What to do, what to do thinks the man I’ve known George for years and I’ve always bought stuff from him, then in a flash it comes to him
      He leaves the shop and goes to Mr Patels shop next door where he ends up getting the Mars bar he originally wanted but even cheaper than George the unpleasant shopkeeper who was last seen waving his fist in anger outside

      The moral of my wee story is obvious and a schoolkid could see it but it appears that some chidrens parents aren’t as smart as their offspring and want to keep shopping with George even though he’s an arrogant thieving Bastirt who’s ripping them off

    85. Effijy says:

      Why on Earth do these slurs on Scotland’s
      NHS go unchallenged ?
      The Westminster Tory and Labour shills at
      Holyrood constantly snipe at the best NHS
      in the UK.

      When we are performing 13 points ahead
      Of Tory NHS England and 20 ahead of Labours
      NHS Wales, and 25 ahead of N Ireland, why
      are these remarks not shot down in flames?

      The head of NHS England Trusts admit that
      They cannot deliver now and with more cuts ahead
      They never will. This is with more than 10% of NHS
      England having been privatised.

      Richard Bransons Virgin Health had over a £ Billion
      Of contracts already and awaits the next batch to come his
      Way.

      We must remember that this act affects the Westminster money
      That is appointed to NHS Scotland.

      Cuts on top of cuts are heading toward your health!

    86. Ken500 says:

      Cruella de ville is an imaginary chararacter. A Disney character. Many people look like them. Especially people who deliberately calculate an image and apprearance. They expected it to be a subject of comment. That is why it is cultivated. An empty PR poseur, exercise. Some people even look like Brave. An other Disney character. An imaginary person for a tale to tell. A diversion from lifes dullness and drudgery. Or those with nothing relevant to say.

    87. call me dave says:

      Just like the buses another Fraser of Allander report trundles into view as the vote on Section 30 and the referendum debate reaches a decision today.

      Slow grow and, oil not bottomed out yet, uncertainty of Independence and Brexit, etc etc.

      Also another body wanting the SG to be bold and up it’s game on reducing carbon emissions not to an 80% target but 90% for climate change reasons.

      Suggestions are
      1. Plant lots of trees and reforest Scotland… I like that one.
      2. Invest in a carbon capture plant…Oh wait WM scuppered that
      3. More renewables..Oh wait! WM have just cut the incentives

      In the Courier today. https://archive.is/gYqLz

      Sprinkle more salt on ma porridge…Oh! better not. Same with the sugar. Jeez!

    88. ScotsRenewables says:

      Re. that petition – you can check out the raw data for yourselves. Votes are recorded by constituency. Scottish constituencies have recorded numbers in four figures, but every English and Welsh constituency has recorded double or treble figures.

      Perhaps someone with a bit of spare time can do the math?

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/180642.json

    89. frogesque says:

      O/t
      Any reason why we couldn’t project a bloody great Saltire with a Wings logo at the side of it onto those wonderful French facing White Cliffs that LA Lyne was so fond of singing about?

    90. gordoz says:

      Its binary, its binary , its binary; GMS at its typical best for balance ?

      Well its pretty clear that BBC Scotland are reading WoS, paying attention and responding without a change in previous form and any attempt to address challenges of Unionist bias.
      (Donalda McKinnon anyone ? Anyone ??)

      Who were the 2 Economists they go to to discuss developments in Scottish economy & prospects of indy choice ? Blah, blah, blah
      Scotland basket case bad !!

      Prof Angus Armstrong (Chokka chearleader !! Unionist trundle out)
      John McLaren (FAS – Chokka buddy !! Unionist trundle out).

      Dearie me – Its clear they don’t give a flying feck and the rematch has started with no moderation of BBC’s position (at all).

      Expect transfers from London Head office to start any day.

      FOR BRITAIN / AGAINST SCOTLAND, at all cost.

      Prediction – Its only going to get worse.

    91. Nana says:

      @Macart

      I won’t be watching today Sam, I just can’t take the negativity and sniping from ‘arses’ like Findlay.

      I heard yesterday from a pal, a few more previous no voters have told her they are so sickened by May and hangers on in Scotland. I do think the constant out downs are having an effect.

      She asked a couple how much of the snp conference had they seen on their tv compared with Gordie Broon an unelected has been. Once she opened that conversation they started telling her about instances where they felt the coverage was biased.

      She also brought up the nhs sell off down south, and that is a serious concern to her age group. Few seemed aware of just how bad it is and what effect it will have on SNHS.

      I passed on more information yesterday, especially the Gers stuff from Richard Murphy and business for Scotland articles.

      Keep sharing folks, it does work.

    92. Smallaxe says:

      Ken500:

      Keep it up Ken, you gave me my first laugh of the morning with this;

      “The Tory Party had to get rid of Thatcher by stabbing her in the back. A stake might have been more appropriate”
      🙂

      Peace Always My Friend

    93. Nana says:

      The herald fails to mention the guy is a tory donor
      https://twitter.com/Darrrenferguson/status/844460492009693184

      https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2017/03/13/research-finds-damaging-mental-health-discrimination-built-into-work-capability-assessment/

      Good question from Peter A Bell

      Can an individual legitimately serve as an MSP if they refuse to recognise a mandate granted by Scotland’s voters?

      https://twitter.com/BerthanPete/status/844219340769710080

    94. Dr Jim says:

      The Scots are not a race

      Until we’re told we’re being racist

      The Scots are part of the UK

      Until we’re told our part of the UK doesn’t get a say

      The Scots are told we’re all one nation

      Until we’re told we’re different

      No EU country ever told me they wanted to build a wall to keep me out of their place
      I’ve met thousands of overseas folk in many countries none of them ever tried to devalue anything I ever said
      Forieign folk never understand why Scotland doesn’t get what it votes for
      They actually think Scotland is a country in a voluntary Union

    95. galamcennalath says:

      Everyone should read Derek Bateman’s latest …

      http://derekbateman.scot/2017/03/22/interesting-times/

      … which covers the situation from a NO perspective. It is essential to know how the other side think.

      A number of points are covered. Some seem easy to counter, for others the YES side will need some well thought through counter arguments.

      I found it interesting that missing among the NO issues was anything to do with democracy, representation, mandate, who-rules, etc etc.. This implies that in this matter YES and NO are basically talking past one another. For YES, the democratic deficit and the question of who is best to make decisions for Scotland, appears to be of no interest to NO voters!

      NO voters are concerned with issues like currency, the economy, lost trade with England, getting the best Brexit deal. We dismiss these concerns too easily.

    96. Capella says:

      Here is the question the people of Scotland will face in the next independence referendum: when England falls out of the boat like a block of concrete, do you want your foot tied to it?

      From George Monbiot’s article in the Guardian. Worth a re-read in light of today’s vote.:
      https://archive.is/ejvcj

    97. Smallaxe says:

      AnTeallach says:
      22 March, 2017 at 8:26 am
      “Och smiley thing became a ?”

      Try :
      Then-
      And )

      Put them all together and you get
      🙂

      Peace Always

    98. Wullie B says:

      O/T A wee spat by our favourite Tory David Torrance and the Young team for independence, he is up to his usual tricks, deletes tweets and blocks user, just a pity they were captured for all to see http://yescotland.com/2017/03/21/david-torrance-and-gers/

    99. Vestas says:

      @galamcennalath 9:34 am :

      “Everyone should read Derek Bateman’s latest …

      http://derekbateman.scot/2017/03/22/interesting-times/

      … which covers the situation from a NO perspective. It is essential to know how the other side think.”

      I got to para 2 & gave up.

      The guy is utterly clueless if he thinks SNHS is worse than the NHS in E&W – either that or he goes private. Ditto education where large parts of E&W are in complete meltdown – recruitment/retention has gone down the toilet. As far as the police go – they’re constantly whining about lack of everything here and forced through a well above inflation increase in funding this year (and last year).

      tl;dr Its the same clueless wittering you get from the average unionist politician. I can’t be arsed reading the same drivel again 🙁

    100. BJ says:

      Whiney McWhineface

      Is that really all they can dredge up. An embarrassing example of what an MSP shouldn’t be. A serious debate and all she can say is she was “biding her time” to talk about Twitter. No serious comments about the vote.

      Stupid enough to be Kezia’s successor.

    101. Macart says:

      The unionist strategy is as transparent as it is dishonest and utterly shameful. Delegitimize the vote, the chamber, the parliament. Undermine trust in public services and institutions and hopefully, in their eyes, the Scottish Government.

      Throw in a media narrative of carnage and chaos in Scotland while whispering very quietly about worse chaos elsewhere under central government and erode peoples desire to protect their inalienable rights both human and civic. Make them believe these rights are a burden that are best left in the hands of the great and the not so good.

      Worked out well so far in Brexit/Austerity Britain, hasn’t it? Right wing, intolerant and isolationist politics of the very worst kind. Society fractured along cultural, ethnic, sectarian and economic fault lines which may take decades if ever to repair. Trust in institutions, services, even each other at an all time low. An economy which services the needs and wants of a minority rather than the majority and a central government led by a mob narrative of difference they created themselves and which they duly lost all control of.

      This is the UK today. This is the union of parliaments. This is the system that would deny people the right to change this appalling situation for the better.

      To be clear. There is no status quo. There is no stability or safety in the precious, preciousssss union. That rug of stability has long been pulled and recent events over Brexit merely highlight this point. It has ALWAYS been this way for the establishment. The politics of expediency for the few, rather than the considered politics of consensus for the many.

      Concepts of partnership or unity within the political union extend only so far as the next soundbite or securing your mandate for another four or five years. That mandate has underwritten a fair few blank cheques at this point. From illegal wars, to naked theft, to removing your own rights and abusing your sovereignty.

      The only people who can put a stop to that is the public themselves. The SNP can’t do this, nor can the greens. Only the public. The Scottish Government can only grant the preople the opportunity to defend their own rights. S’up to the reader right enough, but there are plenty politicians out there who would remove the SG power to do even that.

    102. Giving Goose @ 7.42 am.

      Of course your reply to Arthur Thomson is quite correct.
      However, I would go further. The opposition to a second Scottish Independence Referendum will be a co-ordinated response from a British State quite ruthlessly determined to hold fast their cash-cow that is Scotland.
      In this scenario, all departments of state will be deployed, and by that I mean not only opposition politicians, but the media, probably their greatest weapon, and of course, the security services. If anyone thinks I am exaggerating, especially the final aspect, believe you me I speak from personal experience, and I was on the side of law and order, because their power is immense in affecting the outcome of any issue.
      From the unionist side, the forthcoming independence campaign is one they just have to win, at any cost, so we have to be prepared as best we can for all the abuse that will be directed at us, and believe you me, we ain’t seen nothing yet.
      The lies, and false accusations, will be broadcast far and wide, and while it’s all very well to say we can prove they are telling untruths, a lot of people still only see the headlines which then stick in their minds. The British State propaganda machine will go into overdrive to try, once again, to persuade those still unsure about an independent Scotland, to vote No.
      It’s all very well saying we have right on our side, but unless we can get our message out there, and that is very difficult with a M.S.M almost uniform in their opposition to our cause, then we face an uphill battle to win Indyref2.
      Not that I’m being pessimistic, as the results on the doorstep recently have been positive, but it’s still going to be a struggle once the full onslaught of the British State propaganda takes effect.

    103. heedtracker says:

      They actually think Scotland is a country in a voluntary Union

      Some also ask why English people are completely terrified of just being English, in England, as the nation state of England.

    104. Footsoldier says:

      Just signed the Westminster Parliamentary petition saying there should be a referendum with 36518 voting for. The opposing petition is standing at 207918 and will almost certainly be debated at Westminster as it has over 100,000 signatures.

      Why is the “for” petition so far behind? We need to get over 100,000 for a debate on allowing the referendum.

    105. Dr Jim says:

      Here’s another question, would you vote to join a United Kingdom on the terms we have now

    106. One_Scot says:

      Does anyone know what time the vote is at?

    107. Graeme says:

      I’ve been trying to figure out the most stupid politician in Holyrood and for me in spite of their poor ratings in the polls Labour are definitely well ahead in this category,

      The front runners for me are Anas Sarwar against some pretty stiff opposition from James Kelly in second place however yesterdays performance has to put Monica Lennon in the running

      Not much between the 3 of them it’s a close run race although Anas & James both look the part (you know the lights are on but nobodys in) whereas with Monica there looks like there’s signs of intelligent life which is unfortunately found to be completely misplaced the moment she opens her mouth

    108. Vestas says:

      @Footsoldier 10:05 am :

      “Why is the “for” petition so far behind? We need to get over 100,000 for a debate on allowing the referendum.”

      Nobody is interested in pretendy petitions to Westminster which will get ignored. We’re WAY past that point now.

    109. woosie says:

      O/T

      Heard a snatch of totally unbiased gms yesterday morning. “David”, introduced as yes to no, when asked for his reasons, said “because that’ll be independence finished forever!”

      Doesn’t sound much like a former yesser to me!

    110. galamcennalath says:

      Vistas says

      The guy is utterly clueless if he thinks SNHS is worse than the NHS in E&W

      I agree, but that is what ‘his politicians’ are telling him, backed by their loyal media. It’s one of the easier ones to counter because the facts and numbers say otherwise, if we can get those under his nose and force him to read them.

      Its the same clueless wittering you get from the average unionist politician.

      But it’s consistent wittering and a lot of people do believe it. They have faith in the politicians and organisations saying it. We mustn’t dismiss it, we need to debunk it. I believe that’s possible, but we mustn’t underestimate how entrenched that thinking actually is among some folks.

    111. Capella says:

      @ footsoldier – I voted YES in the first referendum, voted SNP in the General Election and Holyrood election and will vote SNP in the LA elections and in any further Indyref.

      That’s better than signing petitions. It’s a real vote in a real democratic process. We don’t need to petition governments to deliver the demand of the electorate. At least, not in a democracy. We are about to find out whether we live in a democracy – by the majority party in Holyrood fulfilling an election manifesto pledge. Will it be honoured in the UK?

    112. Andy Anderson says:

      They came across to me as a bunch of conceited idiots. I know politicians bend the truth a bit but this is fairy tale land. W#####s.

    113. Capella says:

      @ One_Scot – yesterday the Presiding Officer said that the summing up speeches will be at 4.45 pm which seems a bit late to me. So presumably the vote will be shortly after that.

    114. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      Some also ask why English people are completely terrified of just being English, in England, as the nation state of England.

      … and it is a damned good question.

      My guess would be that their vision of England is as a leader, a ruler over others, a world centre, a world power, something exceptional.

      For many the EU was a threat to that view, thus their Brexit.

      And similarly Scotland leaving their Greater England would diminish status and prestige in their minds.

      The thought of being just a another medium size country among dozens of others isn’t what they want for their England.

      Or, of course, maybe I’ve got it all wrong. 🙂

    115. Vestas says:

      @galamcennalath 10:18 am :

      “But it’s consistent wittering and a lot of people do believe it. They have faith in the politicians and organisations saying it. We mustn’t dismiss it, we need to debunk it. I believe that’s possible, but we mustn’t underestimate how entrenched that thinking actually is among some folks.”

      However this is from a guy who purportedly voted yes last time.

      I’ll tell you EXACTLY what’s happened to him – he’s “gone native” & is trying to blend in with his new Brexiteer/little Englander neighbours. He’ll also be one of these guys who desperately tries not to sound/appear Scots.

      As the yanks would say “He drank the Kool-Aid”. Simple as that. No point in trying to reason with people like that.

    116. HandandShrimp says:

      We shouldn’t be surprised at the desperate debating tactics of the Yoons. They know they are going to lose and they just want 48 hours of whining SNPBaaaad. Something people will have forgotten by next Wednesday when May pulls the plug.

      I was tickled by Neil Findlay’s Tweet – to be honest as an old crusty the equality and diversity thing didn’t put me up or down (although as a right-on progressive I though he and Ian Gray switched their radars off) but I was horrified by the use of “of” rather than “off”. 🙂

      Today Neil will wave his wee Union Flag and walk hand in hand with Struth Haribo to vote against Scottish self determination. Better Tory than in the EU it would seem.

    117. heedtracker says:

      Graun for coffeetime, shackled to England is going to cost us lot more than just expensive food,

      EU referendum and Brexit
      UK-based airlines told to move to Europe after Brexit or lose major routes
      Exclusive: Fears for UK jobs as EU officials say airlines will need to move base and majority of shareholders to fly routes within Europe

      AFP.

      US investment bank Goldman Sachs (NYSE: GS-PB – news) said Tuesday that it plans to move jobs from London to elsewhere in Europe over the next 18 months because of Brexit.

      Goldman Sachs International chief executive Richard Gnodde told CNBC television that the bank will “hire people inside of Europe itself and there will be some movement” out of London.

      He said Goldman would be raising headcount in offices outside Britain by “hundreds” as the country negotiates its exit from the EU.

      http://www.carscoops.com/2017/03/bmw-could-move-mini-production-in-wake.html

    118. Breeks says:

      I think we have a real problem in Scotland. It’s not a lack of debate we suffer from, it’s a lack of intelligent conversation as part of a debate. It is very tiresome to sit through a process where one side merely trots out their rhetoric, then the opposition trots out theirs. Nobody listens to each other, nobody learns anything, nobody changes their mind. The vote is by and large a foregone conclusion, and the media has its sound bites and images to legitimise whatever narrative it cares to invent.

      To me, a vote in a referendum is the bit that comes at the end, just like the signature at the foot of a document. It’s the perfunctory seal of approval and ratification, but what really matters is the contents above and before. If that text or argument that is the body of the document is worthless and insincere, then what is the signature actually worth?

      I think there is much more jeopardy in this referendum than there was in 2014, but there is a risk that might polarise opinion, and we will reach a stage where neither side can influence the other. Perhaps we are already there.

      To prevent that, we MUST have a rich and interesting dialogue. Our arguments need structure and co-ordination, and authenticity. For example, if we want to encourage more senior citizens to join our ranks, maybe we need our stars in Phantom Power Films to compare life on a pension in England with life on a pension in Scotland. Present the debate on their terms and in their words.

      We need to compare the concerns of English NHS staff with the concerns of Scottish NHS staff. Not what the politicians are saying, what the troops in the trenches are seeing. Again, present the debate on their terms and in their words.

      I have put a few Unionists I have known onto that excellent “London Calling” program, and once they have watched it, the dialogue changes. So far they haven’t swung over to YES, but they have gone quiet, and I suffer myself to believe it is a wholesome, thoughtful quietness. It’s a slow burner, but I think it’s a perspective they haven’t seen before.

      We have London Calling holding a torch for bias.

      We have Phantom Power with uplifting snapshots of No voters moving to YES.

      We need more, more, more…..

      We need something which informs our pensioners about life after Brexit, and what they will lose if the Tories defeat Scotland and harmonise social welfare around their UK model, not ours. How Scottish pensioners can stay in their own homes as help comes to them. What they will have left to pass on to their kids and grandkids, or see it’s pernicious erosion away to nothing paying care home fees. We need our “Anti” Gordon Brown presentation. Maybe more. Maybe it’s WW2 legacy we need to respect and address with sensitivity.

      We need to de-politicise the issue, so that people can appreciate what Independence means to them, on their terms, and in their words. Nicola Sturgeon is doing great, a real live wire tour de force, but the people we need to help and support are the “YES” neighbours trying influence their neighbours, patients on one side of the ward persuading those on the other.

      How do we help closet Yessers make progress and win converts where they work in offices dominated by Unionist persuasion? These are the people we need to help.

      What about squaddies in the army? Can’t be easy being a Yesser in the Services, … again, frame the arguments on their terms and in their word…

      Teachers…
      Builders…
      Police,…
      Academics…
      Europeans living here…

      If the Indy debate remains political, a year from now we will still be listening to Ruth Davidson bumping her gums on the BBC. As the Rev said, bypass the process. Take our arguments to the doubters on a one to one basis. Give our YES foot soldiers the tools, wee books, video clips, that make them better informed and articulate advocates for a Yes vote.

    119. Ken500 says:

      Don’t get to hung up about it. Most folk are not paying any attention to it. Just going through the motions of the irrelevance. The unionist and green no party are just trolling the public and annoying folk, winding people up. Showing their arrogance and ignorance as usual. SNP have enough votes to get it through, in any case. Just always keep it that way. There is nothing to worry about. SNP standing up for Scotland and getting even more support. The majority are winning. Let’s keep it that way, always.

    120. One_Scot says:

      Thanks Capella.

    121. gordoz says:

      The Tories at the Herald seem to be taking control – finally

      https://twitter.com/Darrrenferguson/status/844460492009693184

      In short below –

      (Some selfish capitalist shitbag who doesn’t give a flying fxck about Scotland is saying they wont invest anything in Scotland, while indyref is on agenda; whilst squandering thousands on the Unionist / Tory part of Britain last year).

      Is this real news ?? or the other stuff!
      PROJECT FEAR PART 2 out of the block with Herald on board already ??

    122. Capella says:

      @ One_Scot – I’ve just checked. Closing speeches due to begin at 4.43 pm. I was 2 minutes out! Difficult to see how debate can go on for another 3 hours. Who is left to speak other than Jackie Baillie? But that was the estimate of the Presiding Officer so it must be right!

    123. AnTeallach says:

      @Smallaxe 9.36
      Thanks! I should have remembered the smiley face thing on the tablet keyboard disnae work!

    124. harry mcaye says:

      Footsoldier – the petitions are open to anyone across the UK so far more folk down south are going to sign the “against” one plus BBC Misreporting Scotland gave that one free publicity last night, neglecting to mention it was UK wide despite the first line being clearly readable “We in Scotland…” and didn’t mention the other petition.

      Someone did a screen grab of the most recent signers to the “against” one and every address was in England!

    125. Bob Mack says:

      I read Derek Bateman piece, and came to the conclusion that the chap who wrote it is protecting his current position.

      Scotland has never been presented with a better opportunity to attract investment post Brexit. I think you will find companies lining up to put their cash into the economy when England departs the EU.

      In terms of security we stick by our European allies. England wants to be in control of her own destiny but part of the gang if threatened. We want collective responsibility.

      Everybody and their aunt knows that realistically trade with England will continue. Why? Because they need to trade with Scotland. It is not a choice. We supply 60% of the gas of the UK and 95% of the oil, which has many uses apart from powering your car,and export electricity for which they obligingly charge us.
      England with no trade deals in place will take essential supplies of food ,drink and energy wherever they can find them. That is us.

      We are in a strong position to actually gain what England is voluntarily giving up.

      This time we must succeed.

    126. Legerwood says:

      Vestas says:
      22 March, 2017 at 10:16 am
      @Footsoldier 10:05 am :

      “Why is the “for” petition so far behind? We need to get over 100,000 for a debate on allowing the referendum.”

      Nobody is interested in pretendy petitions to Westminster which will get ignored. We’re WAY past that point now.””

      ……

      It is not about getting the debate in UK Parliament it is about spiking the guns of those such as Ruth Davidson and the media who will use this difference between the two petitions for all it is worth because it plays into their narrative ‘nobody wants a second referendum’.

      The ‘No second referendum’ petition and the numbers who signed it was mentioned on Reporting Scotland last night.

      Why give them a stick with which to beat you with? Why get bogged down in explanations involving mandates in Scottish Parliament?

      Why for God’said sake let them set the agenda then spend weeks, months even, dancing to their tune?

      Close it down, sign the f*****g petition.

    127. liz says:

      Couple of points.

      Anas Sarwar is stupid- he was trying to say the SNP lied in 2014, but he actually said, WE lied and he can’t unsay that.

      Should the presiding officer explain what someone else said, is that his job – it looked to me like he was covering for Tory boy – no surprise there.

      Monica Lennon must be even more stupid than Anas, tweeting about
      Christina McKelvie to Spanner!!!!

      The reason Tomkins keeps pushing ‘the people don’t want another ref’, is because he signed the Smith commission report accepting as one of the points, that there was no reason another ref couldn’t take place if the people desired it

    128. John H. says:

      Whenever Theresa May comes to Scotland people in the street should simply turn their back to her. Far more effective than booing. Then let’s see if they show that in their news bulletins.

    129. Capella says:

      @ Legerwood

      Part Population (2011)
      England 53,012,456
      Scotland 5,295,0
      Wales 3,063,456
      NI 1,810,863

      Even if every single inhabitant of Scotland voted for the petition, we would easily be outvoted by the rUK. That doesn’t give anyone a stick with which to beat us. It highlights the democratic deficit Scotland is currently subject to.

    130. Chick McGregor says:

      @John H

      I like that idea, if it could be done.

      Possibly Darth Vader masks as well?

    131. heedtracker says:

      Dublin emerging as one of the big winners…

      Morgan Stanley gave Lord Flipper Darling a seat on their board too? Great socialist workers like Darling take their reward, Dublin is really nice though, not as nice as Edinburgh but a lot less Britishy.

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-21/goldman-morgan-stanley-signal-london-job-moves-as-brexit-looms

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35046961

    132. heedtracker says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35046961

      Even this Flipper gets Morgan Stanley trough slot report is beeb gimp creepy, from 8 December 2015, its all about Alistair Darling, Chancellor Darling, Mr Alistair Darling, Mr Darling but Flipper got is lordshipness on,

      Baron Darling of Roulanish, of Great Bernera in the County of Ross and Cromarty, on 1 December 2015.

      Is there is anything beeb gimps don’t pro tory spin? asks stupidest question ever, duh.

    133. HandandShrimp says:

      Footsoldier

      I wasn’t aware there was a “for” petition. Why would we need one? We elected a Government that had a manifesto commitment and is prepared to honour that commitment. The purpose of a petition is if Government will not listen.

      If May is intransigent then a petition to the UK Government to provide a Section 30 order could be launched in a month or two. That is a separate matter. However, 4.2m petitioned for a second EU vote and that was ignored. Not sure petitions do much good.

    134. Vestas says:

      @heedtracker 11:28 am :

      “Baron Darling of Roulanish, of Great Bernera in the County of Ross and Cromarty, on 1 December 2015.”

      Lewis hasn’t been part of Ross & Cromarty since 1975.

      As an aside I hear that Flipper has had some issues getting taxis on Lewis as very few people want anything to do with him 🙂

    135. TheWasp says:

      Guy from “international think tank” Henry Jackson Society pontificating on daily politics about the airline electronic ban

    136. Breeks says:

      FFS. Jeremy Vine just predicated his Radio 2 program will ask the question why, if we’d voted YES in 2014 we’d be out the EU, so why is being out the EU a problem for us now. Apparently we wanted it in 2014.

      I’m going to send him a miners lamp he’s so far in the feckin’ dark and digging shy of the surface.

    137. heedtracker says:

      Not sure petitions do much good.

      It got a huge boost from Jacky Bird on the news last night, over 200,000 signed no ref petition that must now be debated in parliament, she gasped, but they even lied about it being over 200k.

      Its the all new and exciting BBC Scotland boss Donalda Mac. She’s great and is winning back trust in BBC Scotland/trolling us like a champ.

    138. HandandShrimp says:

      Heedtracker

      I had a look at that poll the other night when it was at a 196,000. Only 139,000 were signatures from Scottish constituencies and that was after major plugging by the tabloids.

      There has to be more than a 139,000 Yoons in Scotland. So the question is are they that bothered by a second referendum? The 60,000 or so that have signed from the rest of the UK (591 constituencies) may sound a lot but it is drop in the ocean and would suggest that they really couldn’t care less if there is a second referendum or not.

    139. geeo says:

      Torrance had a bad day on twitter on GERS….

      I believe the phrase is…”handed his arse”.

      http://yescotland.com/2017/03/21/david-torrance-and-gers/

    140. Les Wilson says:

      Any poll which is UK wide is absolutely no use to Scotland, what surprises me about the figures from Yoonland, is that they are so low. Given we have just over 5 million staying here, you would have thought the Yoonland figures would have been much higher with over ten times the population.

      We cannot trust ANY poll from down south as it always has the possibility of being fiddled by collusion with Westminster and it’s sinister branches. That is on top of the disparity in populations.Pay no attention, they mean nothing to us and we should bear in mind who we are dealing with.

      If we accepted these figures as “real”,then we are accepting that Yoons have sway over our destiny.
      That should be in our hands and only our hands. This is all set up to have a Westminster debate, so they can rubbish Scotland as per usual.

    141. Breeks says:

      As you were folks. Load of pish to divide Yes vote. Nobody is listening to the Out Outers… Out the UK and out the EU.

      Usual ignorant pish about European rules and their apparent stupidity. Not a word about Scotland being represented by Westminster.

      Nicola Sturgeon is evil, blah, blah, blah…. The 2014 majority matters, the Brexit majority doesn’t.

      No fecking substance whatsoever, no change from the 2014 propaganda, right down to the nicey nicey SNP spokesperson.

      It’s like deja vu all over again.

    142. When Scotland gets independence these people should be tried for treason the list of them would be to long to print but I am perfectly serious no other country would let these liars go unpunished they should be tried and punished maybe they would think twice before they lied if they knew they would have to prove themselves in open court

    143. Chick McGregor says:

      @Blair Paterson

      Let their legacy in Scottish history be punishment enough.

    144. manandboy says:

      Since first mooting the idea that ScotRef is a ‘do or die’ vote, the Unionists have been providing plenty of evidence, that for them, this is indeed a case of ‘keep Scotland’ or else we are in very serious trouble.

      And it’s all about the Economy of England, which is about to sustain even further crippling damage as a result of the vote to leave the EU.
      With such a large deficit and total debt around £6.5 trillion, Westminster has few worries, just as long as its northern, energy-rich colony remains just that – a colony, like all those which made up the British Empire, and from which, stolen wealth flowed abundantly into Westminster’s coffers. But which colonies are now Independent.

      Westminster won’t be trying too hard to ‘get the best deal possible’ for the UK. Instead, it’ll be channelling all its energies into conjuring up strategies to fool the Scots into voting No, while also preparing the Secret Services to alter the count to suit Her Majesty’s Pleasure.

      Scotland’s wealth of natural resources is easily sufficient to take care of the UK debt and deficit, but should Scotland learn its lesson from the Unionist treachery in IndyRef14 and vote for Independence, then England will be plunged into a black abyss of bankruptcy so deep it will result in an England which will resemble, over time, a failed State.

    145. Vestas says:

      Not disagreeing with you manandboy but they have a fight on two fronts and the English press will mainly be interested in Brexit.

      When push comes to shove they don’t actually believe we’d vote for indy, just like none of them thought E&W would vote to leave the EU.

      They WILL take their eye off the ball provided indyref2 happens in 2018. If its in 2019 then they get 3-6 months to refocus as Brexit negotiations will be done.

      Timing is everything.

    146. Diasy Walker says:

      O/T Folks is it just me or has the Indy Poster Boy link been hi jacked, and if so can we do something to help.

      Regards

    147. Breeks says:

      Jeremy Vine now talking about GM crops tomorrow… apparently they’re not so bad. Princess Anne says they are fine…

      Sounds like BBC doing Westminster’s groundwork for accepting a TTIP American Trade Deal…

    148. crazycat says:

      @ Breeks at 1.44

      … GM crops tomorrow… apparently they’re not so bad. Princess Anne says they are fine…

      Sounds like BBC doing Westminster’s groundwork for accepting a TTIP American Trade Deal…

      Of course, if the Scottish Government were to retain powers over agriculture…

      Ah.

    149. stewartb says:

      manandboy @1.19pm

      Re: “Scotland’s wealth of natural resources ….”

      According to recent data from a UK official source (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/503852/OGA_production_projections_-_February_2016.pdf ):?

      UK import dependency at 2016: for oil is 36% and natural gas is 50%.

      UK import dependency at 2025: for oil is 52% and natural gas is 67%.

      Now assume that Scotland becomes independent and then consider the impact of this on the rUK’s import dependency – both immediately and into the future. Import dependency for oil would rise to nearly 100% as almost all oil production would come from Scotland’s territory and gas would also increase substantially (don’t have time to research the gas figure but this is relatively easily done).  In addition to an impact on imports, it also brings strategic energy security concerns for the rUK.

      For context, according to the Office for National Statistics (https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/jan2017 ), the UK as a whole already had a trade deficit in goods and services in January 2017 of £2.0billion, although this a number that fluctuates widely, albeit aways with a deficit over the past few decades.

      So as the pundits discuss the strength or otherwise of the UK government’s hand in BREXIT negotiations, when we come to consider the strength of a newly independent Scotland government’s hand in negotiations over trade with Westminster, our oil and gas assets will be crucial.

      It is at least arguable that the marked increase in rUK import dependency over the long term which would follow from ‘losing’ Scotland’s oil as an indigenous, UK asset will be a more important factor in seeking (desperately) to hang on to Scotland than is retaining the tax take from a commodity with a volatile market price.

    150. Legerwood says:

      Capella @11.17
      The petitions on the UK Parliament site have nothing to do with the total UK population or its constituent parts. These petitions just need to reach the figure of 100,000 votes in order to trigger a debate on them by MPS at Westminster.
      At the moment there are two petitions – one against a second referendum and one for. The former has garnered more than the required 100,000 votes to trigger a debate. The for petition is languishing some way short of the magic number.
      Of course, the SNP has a mandate to ask the Scottish Parliament for a referendum and the petitions are not going to influence that process or its legitimate and mandated right to do so. BUT where the petitions and the difference in the support for each, no matter where the support comes from, plays into and appears to give concrete support to the narrative of the No side that people don’t want a second referendum which is something they have been saying at every opportunity. And this will be brought up time and again for months on end by politicians and media.

      Surely people are sufficiently media savvy by now to know how this will be used by the media and politicians
      The YES side will then be on the back foot no matter how often you talk of mandates etc Therefore people can sign the for petition, put it over the line and thus remove these purely symbolic petition from the discussion and get the focus back onto the issues or spend months tied up explaining about mandates etc.

      Your call.

    151. Fred says:

      Anent Princess Anne on Genetics, there speaks a classic example of what chronic in-breeding can accomplish!

    152. mr thms says:

      A link to Audit Scotland’s report “Managing new financial powers”

      http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2017/nr_170323_managing_financial_powers.pdf

      Some quotes…

      “Scottish budget that will be raised directly in Scotland by 2020, compared to 10 per cent in 2014/15 – 50%”

      “Devolved taxes collected by Revenue Scotland in 2015/16 – £572 million”

      “Number of Scottish income taxpayers – 2.6 million”

      “Estimated social security spending being devolved to Scotland – £2.8 billion”

      “Scottish Fiscal Commission becomes a statutory body – 1 April 2017”

      “One-off transfer from the UK Government to the Scottish Government to support implementing new financial powers – £200 million”

      “The Scottish Parliament’s financial powers are changing substantially, with new responsibilities for taxes, social security and borrowing through the 2012 and 2016 Scotland Acts. The amount of money raised in Scotland will go up from about £4 billion before the Scotland Acts were introduced, to £22 billion by 2020.”

    153. Riddok says:

      donald anderson says:
      21 March, 2017 at 9:25 pm
      How can three separate parties sound so similar?

      Because they’re not separate?



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