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Kezia Dugdale is a liar

Posted on August 25, 2014 by

There’s some interesting footage circulating today of a referendum debate for women that took place last week. Many people have focused on No-campaign representative Cat Headley admitting that a “Better Together” leaflet made some highly misleading claims about an independent Scotland’s ranking among the world’s wealthiest countries, but we covered that back in May so we won’t go over it again.

The bit of the meeting that caught our eye is at 1m 36 in the clip above.

It comes from Labour’s shadow education minister Kezia Dugdale:

“When it comes to why Westminster hasn’t been helping in putting forward the arguments or the numbers for what things cost, I’m afraid that’s because the Edinburgh Agreement which Nicola signed with them precluded any pre-negotiation. It was in there. absolutely to the letter of it, you can Google it tonight, you can pull it up, you can see that they agreed that they would not have any pre-negotiation ahead of a Yes vote.”

At this point Nicola Sturgeon, also on the panel, interjects while shaking her head, saying what appears to be “I signed it.” Dugdale responds:

“I’m telling folk they can go and Google it, I’m not telling them what the letter of the law is, they can go away and have a look at it for themselves.”

And indeed you can. The Edinburgh Agreement is conveniently archived in this site’s Reference section and can be located here, so it’s easy to check Ms Dugdale’s claim. And what you’ll find is that there is no mention whatsoever of pre-negotiations in the Edinburgh Agreement.

The words “negotiate” or “negotiation” don’t appear at all in its 13 pages, nor is there anything else that could possibly be interpreted to imply such a preclusion.

The Agreement is a short document, just 30 paragraphs long and dealing entirely with the technical conduct of the referendum itself and the campaigns surrounding it. The only part of it that refers in any way to the period after the referendum is the line “The two governments are committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of the rest of the United Kingdom.”

At 2m 43s in the same clip, Kezia Dugdale tells the audience to “Question what you’re hearing, do your Googling and come to your own conclusions”. It’s advice that we heartily endorse, especially if you’ve just been listening to Kezia Dugdale.

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    1. 25 08 14 11:16

      Kezia Dugdale is a liar | Scottish Independence News

    146 to “Kezia Dugdale is a liar”

    1. heedtracker says:

      Why is Labour in Scotland constantly, blatantly lying to Scotland now, like this failure for example

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/gordon-brown-is-a-liar/

    2. Robert Louis says:

      So in one short segment from a debate, we see Labour MSP Dugdale, tell an outright lie, and then we see the Labour candidate admitting that their leaflet claim regarding Scotland’s economic wealth is misleading.

      Interesting also, that the hopeful Labour candidate openly states she doesn’t know what GDP is. Seriously? and she wants to be an MSP? Dunce.

      Was the Labour candidate reading prompts on her tablet to tell her how to answer? Can’t she think for herself?

    3. Alexandra-M- says:

      My God, they really are utterly feckless!

    4. HeehawBaws says:

      Another reason there will be a currency union.

    5. Grant says:

      Bad Bad Bad Dug.

    6. alexicon says:

      Labour are using the same tactics they always deploy during a campaign…Lies.

    7. Bob Malcolm says:

      Why are we surprised, the whole phrase ‘Better together’ is a lie, so why would anything else be true.

    8. john j says:

      Like most compulsive liars they just can’t help themselves.

    9. I’m wondering if she can cook?… or something.

    10. That Kezia Dugdale is a liar is not news. It is a statement of fact.

    11. Nana Smith says:

      From the beginning the No campaign has been built on lies. These people are the lowest of the low.

      Letter from Jim Sillers to Darling….

      https://twitter.com/thesickracer/status/503837160483471360/photo/1

    12. MajorBloodnok says:

      Seems like they lie even when they don’t have to, just to keep their hand in.

      In fact Westminster’s way of working is based entirely on lies and deception – there are rarely categorical statements of principle and nearly always weasel-worded statements that can be disowned or distorted later.

      And of course all this is aided and abetted by the MSM that never seems to see the lies, contradictions and hypocrisy and never calls the main stream parties out on them. I mean look at the way they allow the Unionist free rein in the press and BBC.

      I’m sick of the lies.

    13. Zen Broon says:

      Lying seems now to be second nature to Labour in Scotland. One of the sad consequences of a lazy, uncritical media.

    14. Murray McCallum says:

      Even their own supporters must wonder the extent of their lies.

      Kezia Dugdale seems to be relying on a brainless bluff here – if you say something with conviction it doesn’t really matter if it is true or not (as most people will not check it out).

    15. When it comes to why Westminster hasn’t been helping in putting forward the arguments or the numbers for what things cost, I’m afraid that’s because the Edinburgh Agreement which Nicola signed with them precluded any pre-negotiation.

      They have been putting out incorrect figures about what things would cost, eg

      An independent Scotland would face £200m of immediate start-up costs, it has been claimed.

      Prof Patrick Dunleavy gave the figure in a report commissioned by The Sunday Post.

      A spokesman for the First Minister said the UK Treasury’s previous £2.7bn figure had been “blown out the water”. (BBC)

      so perhaps what she really means is that they’re trying hard not to put out any figures which might actually be of relevance in future negotiations. And I suppose stating flat out that we won’t be allowed to use the pound doesn’t count as “pre-negotiation” in her mind because they’re dictating the outcome rather than negotiating it. But that just raises the question of how they can “continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome” when they haven’t been very constructive prior to the result.

    16. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Why would scots believe Blue Labour careerists who will always prefer trusting London tories like Cameron ruling scotland, instead of trusting the scottish people and the scottish parliament?

    17. Edward says:

      Watching the video clip above, it was very very telling that Cat Headley could not think for herself.

      All through the preceding moment when Nicola Sturgeon was talking , Cat Headley was scrolling through her iPad, looking for something to say. Clearly she was stuck. Then when she did talk she continually glanced down at her iPad to read off sound bite quotes

    18. Luigi says:

      Oh Dear!, Miss Dugdale, what a mess.

      It’s all beginning to unravel now. The tangled mess of blatant lies and sheer panic suggest that things are not quite going according to plan, for BT. They are acting as if they are already falling behind in the polls.

      Surely not? After all, NO is still way out in front, isn’t it?

    19. stonefree says:

      It’s a requisite for future leader of the Labour MSPs

    20. Colin says:

      Why does Nicola Sturgeon let her get away with it? A shake of the head and a “I signed it” is hardly a rebutle.

      I have been waiting and thinking that the SNP and the official Yes campaign would unleash their might “anytime soon” but it is looking less and less likely as the referendum grows closer.

      Labour and the no campaign lie and slander us daily and all we get is a head shake. If there is a no vote we know where the blame will firmly lie.

    21. Onwards says:

      OT, BBC comments now up on their debate article.
      Linked to their main UK page, so there should be plenty of examples of ‘love bombing’ from the south.

    22. Camz says:

      They’ll keep lying until the media start accusing them of lies. Until then, enjoy the fib fest.

    23. Robert Roddick says:

      I have just posted on my facebook page that many years ago I was discussing hustings with a friend who was then standing for the Labour Party in a parliamentary election. He told me that a tactic was to say e.g. ” as Harold Wilson stated in his speech in Sunderland…..”, knowing full well that no one would check it. Looks like the old tactic is still in use.
      P.S. This friend left the Labour Party over Iraq and is now a committed YES supporter and votes for the SNP as its social democratic policies are more in keeping with his old Labour views.

    24. Glass Girl says:

      This is a tactic I have seen deployed more often since the Salmond – Darling debate. Saying to people ‘go look it up on google’ as if just implying that there is evidence to back up their case automatically gives it credibility. It takes the heat off them in the moment and they know a lot of people probably won’t bother following it up.

    25. MajorBloodnok says:

      @Camz

      No end in sight then…

    26. donald anderson says:

      It is a lie to refer to HM Labour Party as “Red Tories”. They are Red, White and Blue Tories.

    27. Staunch says:

      One part of the video that may have been overlooked but indeed bares highlighting is the following:

      (@2:18) “The UK Government have said, you are not going to have a formal currency union on the pound eh and Nicola wants a formal currency union. There’s clearly going to be a negotiation there

      But Kezia, have we not been told that the issue of the currency union is non-negotiable? Have your party leaders not signed a pledge stating as much? Has, specifically, the leader of the Labour party, your party, not indicated that he would go so far as to include it in his GE manifesto that such a currency union would not happen?

      Well it seems that the possibilities for negotiation on the issue of the currency union are not set in stone after all. Thanks Kezia!

    28. Jim Thomson says:

      O/T this video relating to the NHS privatisation just brought to my attention by a Business for Scotland e- mail.

      18 minute presentation by Allyson Pollock at TEDxExeter 2014.

      Worth a watch.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz5dl9fhj7o

    29. Proud Cybernat says:

      How many BT/Project Fear liars is that we have now, Stu? In fact, would it not be quicker to just list the honest ones in their campaign?

    30. Graeme Doig says:

      These liars have no dignity left, no shame and frankly no power over us now. Their game’s a bogey and whatever the result things will never be the same.

    31. Jim Marshall says:

      If you are a convincing liar there is a long and lucrative career in the Labour party ending with well paid semi retirement in the Lords.

      The most accomplished liar was of course Tory Bliar who convinced nearly everyone that Saddam Hussein had WMD which could reach London in 45 min.

      All aspiring Labour politicians model themselves on Bliar, as he was a master of the art.

    32. John says:

      I knew Kezia when she was a law student, and by no means was she one of the smartest, that would be putting it at its kindest, but she was always quite outspoken, and not much has changed.

      Yet another example of the talent dearth at the heart of Scottish Labour, providing a nice chuckle along with my morning coffee.

    33. galamcennalath says:

      Maybe I’m old and my memory is failing. But I seem to remember a time, and it seems not so long ago, when everyone accepted politicians spun the facts, omitted details which didn’t suit, and at times told the odd straightforward porkie. We even had a media who would call them out! The good old days.

      However, the way NoBetterTogether and ScotLab in particular, now lie lie and lie again, is something new in politics as far I can see. It seems to have reached a stage where they think they can just make everything up as they go along! “To Hell with any facts, I have a very scary story to tell!”

      What is most astonishing of all is they now don’t seem to care about being caught out!

      There’s good news, though, they are backfooted and know they are losing. It shows! BT et al realise they are in an all or nothing fight now.

    34. Macart says:

      Nope not a sausage on that document on the subject of pre negotiation. Ms Dugdale is indeed lying through her teeth, but then does a bear dump in the woods?

      Misdirection, smear and outright lies. Ms Dugdale has become fond of using the term ‘just Google it’. I think she may come to regret that sound bite.

    35. Greannach says:

      If Ms Headley was planning to stand for almost any party but Labour, her performance at the meeting would have put paid to her dreams, but given the calibre of Labour’s big hitters, I can see a glittering political career ahead of her. If Labour survive that long.

    36. JLT says:

      If Yes do win, then the current philosophy of the Scottish Labour that we all love and adore at this moment in time (tongue in cheek) should die on the 19th. However, whatever arises from the ashes, phoenix-like, will be down to the Labour supporters, the Unions and whatever remnants of the old guard remain. If they try to pass off the same nonsense that we have endured for decades then they might find themselves going the same way as the Lib Dems …and that is nowhere.

      I suspect the Scottish Tories are more adapted to face the changes of a new Scotland that Scottish Labour will be. The fallout and civil war that will take place in Labour should be rather interesting. As said, what arises will be highly intriguing.

    37. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      endoilblackout is now trending in Glasgow

      https://twitter.com/NewsnetScotland/status/503787717332049920/photo/1

    38. tartanarse says:

      The correct response to invitations to check Google should be, as already explained by Stu, thus:

      “Indeed, you should do exactly as (insert name of BT muppet here) says and actually Google this(subject) to find out that it never happened/doesn’t exist etc”

      The BT muppet will then have to defend the point knowing they had been caught out. It may make a lot of people actually check out the information for themselves.

    39. Clootie says:

      @Jim Marshall 11:08

      Once again a compliant MSM supported Blair’s statements with bold headlines.

      The Labour Party only continues due to the MSM ignoring their lies and a support of misplaced loyalty from socialists who still think Labour will recover it’s soul.

      Dugdale highlights all that is wrong with Labour in making such misleading statements.

    40. msean says:

      Is it just me,or are the news channels ramping up to tell us Salmond has suffered a blow before the debate?

    41. Giving Goose says:

      I don’t do Twitter and don’t actually understand it that well, but is it possible to do a hashtag along the lines of “Savelabourssoul vote yes” or something similar?

    42. muttley79 says:

      Kezia Dugdale has a masters in something, I presume it is politics or a related subject. Therefore, she is in no way ignorant, stupid or unintelligent. There is only really one other option and explanation for her actions. Dugdale knowingly and willingly lies and is well aware of the fact that she is doing it. She knows that the MSM will never call her out, or take her to task over it. Dugdale is only interested in preserving her own career. If Kezia Dugdale was not, she would have developed her own political principles and vision. Instead, what we get from her are almost constant lies, smears, and an unhealthy obsession with, and hatred of the SNP, particularly Alex Salmond. This has descended to the creepy level.

    43. heedtracker says:

      “just question what you’re hearing” says Labour’s shadow education minister Kezia to the audience, which is not a bad bait and switch tactic.

      Tell you any old whopper, tell em to question what you’re hearing, is probably how all kinds of scammers go about their frauds but somehow Dugdale is probably just running on instinct.

      I’m a liar, but question that. The really scary thing is this is another Labour in Scotland clown directly involved in Scottish education, Lamont, ex teacher, Ian Grey, ex head teacher for christ sake.

    44. seanair says:

      mean
      Yes I’ve just seen the Daily Heil headlines for Tuesday morning and it’s definitely another blow for Salmond.

    45. Hewitt83 says:

      Can’t watch the video at work.

      How did Nicola respond to this?

    46. chalks says:

      I’m afraid there already has been ‘pre-negotiating’

      Westminster has ruled out a currency union.

    47. Devorgilla says:

      I followed Dugdale closely on the disgraceful Edinburgh Portobello Park private bill and she lied all the way through the debate. I think you are right that she is not thick but a practised liar who consciously bluffs and misdirects.

    48. David Anderson says:

      The performance of Salmond tonight is largely symbolic, he IS the leading representative of the YES campaign and therefore in no small part to the eyes of the viewers he embodies all that that campaign entails. That is not to say he is all that the campaign entails, clearly not, the campaign is all who have created it. However, for these types of spectacles, the campaigns are concentrated into the individuals and that is where the importance of their respective performances lie, in representing a positive case for Yes or No and/or making the other appear less credible. It could provide a boost to YES if Salmond performs well and that in itself is a good thing. Everything helps and at this stage of the process, we need to use the full range of tools to assist people to see a YES vote is the way forward. For this reason, I really hope he does well.

    49. they don’t care as they consider Scots not genetically programmed to look after own affairs.

    50. chalks says:

      If Salmond does well tonight, I think you’ll see another debate.

    51. galamcennalath says:

      muttley79 says:
      … we get from her are almost constant lies, smears, and an unhealthy obsession with, and hatred of the SNP, particularly Alex Salmond. This has descended to the creepy level.

      She had a life plan, a safe career progression through a Labour party which had a Divine right to rule Scotland. She had it made, with a little time and effort.

      She, and many like her, have had their plans destroyed. Blown to pieces. And, it’s all the SNP and Alicsammon’s fault.

      What they all fail to realise is that the main cause of their destruction has not been the challenger for power, but has been their own disgusting gutter behaviour. They have brought about their own demise, whatever the outcome.

    52. Jim Marshall says:

      Major Bloodnok 10.39

      “I’m sick of the lies.”

      I”m sick of being sick of the lies.

    53. goulashman says:

      Labour has so compromised itself both in its abandonment of principle and disavowal of its initial raison d’être and latterly by its mindless adherence to rightest Unionist rhetoric that it has lost all credibility as a potential alternative in Scottish government post-Referendum.

    54. Walking on Sunshine says:

      Labour in Scotland regard their stance against independence as a ‘war’.

      According to Johann Lamont, Labour will win the ‘war’ and then come back and win the ‘peace’.

      Unfortunately for Labour they are fighting against their own Labour voters who are voting YES in their hundreds of thousands.

      Not only will Labour fail to win the ‘war’ or even the ‘peace’, they will be decimated at the next Scottish elections, and will end up in the scrapheap of history just like the Tories and the Libdems are already.

      We will never forgive them.

    55. Early Ball says:

      Scandalous piece on Radio 5. Murphy and Canavan were the representatives of No and Yes. Murphy started with a long uninterrupted answer. Canavan replied but got interrupted by Murphy and Canavan faded out as he tried to argue. “Lets bring Jim back” Murphy goes on again uninterrupted and then the boy said “we have to end it there.” Then a “jokey” quip about Murphy’s size 13s. Sickening. Is that not the kind of thing the Electoral commission should be clamping down upon?

    56. highseastim says:

      I watched that video last night and Dugdale and her lawyer friend were cringeworthy, you could see the panic in their faces before they got the microphone, and being a typical Labour MSP she handed the platform to her stuttering sidekick to take the flak!!

    57. galamcennalath says:

      JLT says:
      If Yes do win, then the current philosophy of the Scottish Labour that we all love and adore at this moment in time (tongue in cheek) should die on the 19th.

      Indeed. If something totally new doesn’t appear before the 2016 election and they go into that election in present guise, they are dead in the water.

      There are so many other organisations campaigning for Yes and occupying that left of centre space Labour used to occuply, something completely new is possible. And, I’m sure Green votes will go well into double figures when the old Lab-Con Westminster class war is left behind.

      I suspect the Scottish Tories are more adapted to face the changes of a new Scotland

      Indeed, again. Scottish Tories haven’t been so nasty (in my mind) and deceitful as ScoLab. Their motivation is different, few must realistically aspire to Westminster seats at the moment! They are the true Unionists, genuinely believing Scotland is better in the Union. They are British. I can foresee Scottish Tories transforming into a centre-right party easily, and with less moral baggage that ScoLab.

    58. David says:

      Perhaps Kezla is using the Daily Mail technique, regardless of facts or evidence spout your lies as there’s always someone that wants to believe you.

    59. goulashman says:

      I am seriously worried that the electoral process could be cynically manipulated by Westminster inspired trick and agency. I wonder too if the forum and management of tonight’s debate and the admitted audience will provide a balanced opportunity for Salmond. The predominate Unionist media probably already have their headlines ready: ‘Salmond bruised and Yes severely damaged’ etc. etc.

    60. bunter says:

      O/T

      think Stiglitz is sticking the boot into the UK Gov and project fear at his press conference in Edinburgh. Says ruling out the CU is a tactic to sow fear and uncertainty and that Whitehall’s attempt to claim the assets of the BOE and expect Scotland to take a share of the debt was ”embarrassing”.

      Together with Sir Jim Mirrlees coming out today to say that Scotland would be right to walk away from the debt if refused CU, it has been a right one-two from the Nobel Laureates.

      I wondered when they would speak up, after all, it is their work in the fiscal commission which was being trashed.

    61. galamcennalath says:

      A bit OT, but thinking of the way broadcast media is behaving.

      If there is a Yes win announced on the 19th, we enter a period of negotiations. I have absolutely no doubt the BBC and everyone else in the media, will be cheerleaders for the rUK side. They will try to swing public opinion (even in Scotland) against iScotland’s case. They will ridicule, spin, omit … and lie … just as they do just now.

      To my mind, the Scottish Government, TeamScotland negotiators and all Indy parties and politicians should withdraw cooperation with any ‘Scottish’ media which fail to be impartial.

      If necessary, get an SBS set up quickly for news output.

    62. Flower of Scotland says:

      The whole of the BBBC including radio Scotland are gleefully talking about tonight’s debate! They must have it fixed! We must not put such pressure on the FM. He is not confrontational at all. I just think it will be another damp squib!

      Anyone seen the guy on Facebook saying that they were not allowing YES voters into the STV debate? I don’t know if it’s true, but we do know that they will be spinning it! They are doing it already! Unbelievable! Yes is being accused of being negative!! Comparing it to Presidential elections!!

      I won’t be watching it! Far too stressfull!

    63. Mike says:

      Ive had personal experience of Dugdales propensity to lie when she used to troll the Scotsmans comments sections as Fifi La Bon Bon.
      She would deliberately lie her arse off simply to provoke a response in the hopes of getting the responder banned.
      I actually believe these people feel they have a duty to lie I believe that they believe its all part of the job.
      Its become such common place in UK politics that its become the norm and the acceptable face of UK politics.

    64. les Wilson says:

      From Tories – Lies
      From uk Labour – Lies
      From Condems – Lies
      From the TV Media, all persuasions – Lies
      From the paper MSM -Lies
      From Scottish Labour – Lies
      From Unionist Businessmen -Lies
      From CBI – Lies

      Oh I am sure there are many more. What this tells us, this common denominator, is that they MUST keep us no matter what. This shows us though that they need us, far more than we need them. For a myriad of self seeking reasons in their eyes the MUST keep us under their heel.

      The welfare of us, the Scots, does not enter their thinking.

      We know all that now, and the writing is on the wall, they will drown in all this anti democratic propaganda.
      Rant over!

    65. muttley79 says:

      @Walking on Sunshine

      Yes, I saw that comment by Johann Lamont saying that they were going to win the war and then the peace. She is in the same league as Ian Davidson, Murphy, Brian Wilson, Helen Liddell, Curran, Reid, Robertson etc. A kind of madness has enveloped the unionist core in SLAB. It has been growing for years, but with the referendum looming, and only weeks away, it has come right out into the open. They talk of their opponents’ as being a virus, blood and soil nationalists (Nazis in other words). At the same time they make common cause with both the right and extreme right in the UK. Now they are talking of war to describe a referendum vote on self determination. This is just complete madness, they have lost their minds to hatred and bitterness.

    66. BrianW says:

      My only wish is that we’d seen her “Pants on Fire” having come out with her Lies.

    67. IcySpark says:

      Story has hit the Herald

      Swinney wants ‘ludicrous’ claim that Pakistan is a richer nation retracted

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/swinney-wants-ludicrous-claim-that-pakistan-is-a-richer-nation-retracted.25140951

    68. heedtracker says:

      Fifi La Bon Bon of the Hootsman and then there’s tellen1 of the Guardian, whose impotent rage against Scottish democracy is exactly like listening to Jim Murphy MP on his world tour of No no never ya bams. Spooky

    69. chalks says:

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/barnett-formula-will-be-replaced-says-mcconnell-1-3519167

      Perhaps Biz for Scotland could look into the ramifications of using income tax to shore up the loss from barnett?

    70. les Wilson says:

      galamcennalath says:

      You are right, it’s a given.
      It will go on at least until 2016 i day.
      After that they are stuffed.

    71. The political and moral repercussions for SLAB and those who promoted Bigots Together will be devastating AFTER Sept 18th.

      In case you`ve been sleeping, rUK is in the foothills of the 2015 Westminster General Election Campaign that is being hyped via election pledges and manifestos.

      Once again, we are being “shown our place”.

      Salmond should be marking the territory in Holyrood by new legislation that bars MP`s and Lords from representing Scotland at Westminster prior to May next year.
      Salmond can “make the promise” as a tactic.

      What do SLAB,Ukip,ConDems DO.?

      The Constitutional Cat gets it`s Goldfish.

      The House of Lords and Commons Expenses – WIPED OUT.

      If BamCam Wins in May next year he promises to EXCLUDE his own tory voters in Scotland from the Commons via his Boundary Change Legislation.
      Tory Dementia – Rules.

      By some kind of insane logic, Krash-Flipper-Davidson-Curran-Loopy Lamontable-JaBa-LanternJaw-wee roofie-wee willie etc, actually think we will forget their treachery and vote for “them” only 8 months after the IndyRef.?

      This Scottish Goldfish is called – JAWS.

    72. Johnney come lately says:

      Regarding the debate between Salmond and Darling.
      I agree with the article last week in Bella. Salmond will not be allowed to win anything from now to the 18. Sep. As Bella so bluntly put it, People are going to have to steel themselves not only for the MSM lies about the outcome of the debate, but also the degree to which the MSM will lie, invent, twist and distort every truth spoken from now until the referendum.
      It’s going to be a rough few weeks. I hope both Yes and the SNP have something tucked away for the final run in, as for the moment it seems as if they are comatose.

    73. muttley79 says:

      @WantonWampum

      Lamont has already said that SLAB will win the war and then the peace. Therefore, they clearly think there will be no repercussions for their appalling rhetoric and behaviour of the last 3 years in particular. Not only that, but that they will regain their divine right to rule Scotland.

    74. les Wilson says:

      bunter says:

      Yup, that can only be a very good thing, these people also have International bigwig followers, so the rest of the world will see and hear their comments.
      It will show up just how desperate Westminster is, and they will not like that. Our MSM will not be able to snuff out International conclusions. They will, of course, try and snuff out ours.

    75. les Wilson says:

      muttley79 says:

      SLAB lives in cuckoo land if they think that.

    76. Murray McCallum says:

      If the debate ends tonight with Alistair Darling stating he is now “undecided” because he acknowledges a threat to NHS funding, that 25 billion boe is a reasonable estimate, and the logic of a currency union – it will be declared a draw.

      Of course a draw is a killer blow for Salmond as he has to be winning at this stage.

    77. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      The liars have lost.

      I was sitting in a cafe in Nairn a little earlier.

      At the next table an Indyref debate was taking place between four ladies.

      It looked like YES was winning 3:1, with the one perhaps being more undecided than NO.

      They were totally on the ball as regards the Oil , Scotland paying more than its share, MSM telling lies etc..

      One lady said she thinks that there is a ‘hidden majority’ for YES.

      Eventually couldn’t resist joining in.

      Great discussion, with the undecided lady leaving with the Wee Blue Book I had in my pocket.

      Even the chap from the kitchen came out, confirmed he had never voted before, but had his polling card, and checked where the polling station was.

      Finally I got given the one homemade sweetie the ladies had left.

      Made my day.

    78. les Wilson says:

      chalks says:

      Well we will see if the can handle it when reality bites them on the arse!

    79. PeeGee says:

      An organisation that refuses to, come clean”, over their Scottish membership.

      labourlist.org/2014/08/angela-eagle-calls-on-tories-to-come-clean-over-membership-figures/

    80. muttley79 says:

      @Murray

      How will Darling and the MSM deal with the Scottish NHS question? There are loads of articles on the privatisation of the NHS in England, and even UK Labour politicians, such as Andy Burnham, have said it is being privatised. They surely cannot keep up their knee jerk accusation that the SNP are lying about it, given all the evidence that is out there?

    81. Auld Rock says:

      WHOW – Labour and all unionists are “LIARS” now I never realised that, LOL. They will get their come-uppence from 19th September onwards. Scottish New Labour HQ,is going to look like the ‘killing fields’, the night of the long knives will not have a look in. I’m loving it already, I’m just looking forward to working constructively with all ‘The Real Labour’ activists that I and many others SNP members have met during this campaign to build a fairer more equal society in Scotland after the ‘YES’ vote on the 18th.

      Auld Rock

    82. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      Rev Stu,
      Could you please do a similar article titled –
      “Jackie Baillie is a liar”.
      On second thoughts perhaps it may take long as I have never heard her utter a truthful word.

      @WantonWampum
      I am looking forward to the 2015 elections. There are hopefully going to be quite a few senior Lib Dem and Labour MPs who are going to get booted out. Liars all.

    83. Harry McAye says:

      I don’t want to be all doom and gloom but it seems the YES campaign may have placed too much stock in Dr Philippa Whitford. She was caught out yesterday by Paul Hutcheon in the Sunday Herald and today there is a big piece in the Record calling out her claims about cancer ops being under threat in the NE of England due to funding. Not good and I expect Salmond will come under pressure about this tonight. But plenty of BT lies for him to bring up and of course Labour’s Andy Burnham’s comments about NHS privitisation, among others.

    84. PeeGee says:

      P Hutcheon in anti Yes press lies shock!

      In other news Kezia Dogface did the ICEBUCKET challenge on Portobello beach in August with a couple of pails of seawater. Coward, thy name is labour-woman! Life ban for cheats.

    85. big jock says:

      Listening to John Beattie show.Apparently the no side still don’t know what currency we are using.Is Sterling such a difficult word to understand or only for the no campaign.Its a bit like an alcoholic not knowing they are an alcoholic but everyone else seeing it.The oil industry have rubished the Wood comments,top economist saying Scotland should not pay debt if currency not agreed,NHS in England is being privatised.The ducks are all lined up for Salmond to destroy Darling.However usual biased media will twist it.

    86. Indy_Scot says:

      Why would anyone want these incompetent muppets to run our country

    87. Murray McCallum says:

      Mutley79

      The funding of the NHS and the pace of privatisation in the south is something they cannot avoid or cover up.

      Alistair Darling will be in the situation of defending David Cameron’s government while Alex Salmond quotes Andy Burnham. Better Together’s reaction to the NHS issue gives away their acknowledgment that this is a major factor in the debate.

      Hopefully the debate will also get on to Cameron’s threat of UK exit of EU if he does not get his way. Alistair Darling will again have to defend his leader.

      This may be a debate actually worth watching.

    88. dennis mclaughlin says:

      I think that we cannot dismiss the very astute question from the audience,which completely skewered a ‘pro’ politician and her witless sidekick.

      BitterNawButNotTogether better wake up to the fact that their lies & misinformation is catching up with them fast.

    89. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      I would have thought that saying you signed a document implies that you know what is in it. I understand you can be rushed into ignoring the small print but doubt that’s the case here. Sturgeon said all she had to.

    90. crisiscult says:

      @Harry McAye

      I read that article and it was presented in a way that would be quite damaging to the Yes people who argue the NHS is under threat.

      I saw RevStu tweet this article and it’s a great read.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/22/sale-of-century-privatisation-scam

      One of the main points you can take from it is that the fetishisation of privatisation has conned so much of the electorate, particularly in how we understand tax.

      “By moving from a system where public services are supported by progressive general taxation to a system where they are supported exclusively by the flat fees people pay to use them, they move from a system where the rich are obliged to help the poor to a system where the less well-off enable services that the rich get for what is, to them, a trifling sum”

      One point of attack re NHS is: OK, if you can tell us that the NHS is not being privatised in England, and also guarantee us that it will never be privatised by, as we plan to do, putting it into a written constitution that will bind future parliaments, that will go a long way to settling the NHS question and we can move on.

      My point is that the pedantry and prevarication on whether Scottish NHS is under threat is perhaps missing the point that we should be saying, if the ideology of the current Westminster parties could threaten the NHS, why would we want to be run by such an ideology.

    91. Thepnr says:

      @Calgacus MacAndrews

      Just in the last 10 minutes I spoke with a German family living in Scotland. Mum, Dad and daughter, even though they were speaking German and I don’t I understood Scotland Independence.

      So I asked them if they were German and living in Scotland, Yes I was told. How will you vote in the referendum, father says I’m foreign and won’t vote, mother nods her head.

      Daughter says I’m voting Yes 🙂

      This is how we combat their lies, get up close to strangers, doesn’t matter who. Our voices together will drown out their lies.

    92. bunter says:

      BBC running story of academics backing higher oil estimates. Its the fourth story at moment, soon to disappear no doubt.

      Seems grudged and probably forced upon it via social media pressure.

    93. tartanfever says:

      Hold on a second about Dr Whitford. How many of you have listened to her interview with Derek Bateman ?

      Funding for Scotland is increasing just now, but due to the sheer incompetence of privatisation of the NHS down south. Targets are not being met, cock ups in contracts and so on have meant more money has had to be paid out. It is these cock ups that have increased funding up here.

      Don’t forget the overall picture, privatisation is there to cut the budget and to take responsibility away from Government. Budgets will be cut in the long run, it’s exactly what the new system is designed for.

      The most powerful argument is this. The Lansley Act takes responsibility away from the Health Secretary to provide health care. In other words: –

      Westminster no longer has a duty to provide health care for the people of England as and when they need it. The social contract between Government and the people that was enacted with the birth of the NHS has been ripped apart.

      The NHS should be re-named the LHB – Local Health Business, because there is nothing national about it and the term service no longer applies.

    94. Jim Thomson says:

      @Bunter if we all read it, it will percolate up onto the most read table.

      Go give it a click and stay on it for at least a minute otherwise it might not get counted.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28926369

    95. G H Graham says:

      It’s actually very hard to deal with these lies because the NO side is telling so many of them of such preposterous proportions, there simply isn’t the time to research the facts & demonstrate that the NO side is categorically lying.

      And they know that. So they are raising their game by increasing the volume & scale of their lies to unprecedented levels, with the full knowledge that most of us just don’t have the capacity to check the facts before the next blatant lie is put out.

      Having almost the entire media on their side helps because almost none of it is even willing to examine the facts or rarely bothers to approach anyone with an opposing view.

      And when they do, it’s dismissive & usually planted at the end of an argument long after most folks have given up reading or listening beyond the first couple of lies.

      Murdo Fraser lied to me in Murthly, Perthshire last week by repeating the lie that 11,000 people work at HM Clyde.

      But by the time most folks can research this & discover that the MOD issued a statement clearly showing that there are only 520, the meeting is several days over & folks have gone home with the number 11,000 firmly planted in their head.

      It is tactic used by people who have no convincing argument to retain the status quo because they know it doesn’t make sense.

      Unless of course, you are in a small minority who will enjoy a free ride by becoming a bank bench MSP or MP during which time, one can milk the system for all its worth, in the comfort that no one is really going to test you for at least 4 or 5 years.

      They wouldn’t last 2 weeks in the private sector which is why people like Dugdale, Darling & Davidson are screaming to protect their tax payer funded lifestyles.

    96. Jim Thomson says:

      @G H Graham it would be nice to have the compere/MC, or whatever the BBC will call their bloke, to say before they both start:

      “By the way, we have a group of researchers in the gallery who will check up on your ‘facts’ when you make a claim and I’ll get their results in my earpiece”

      That might give Flipper a wee pause for thought, or would it? He’d probably be so far into his lie sheet that he’d not have an alternative strategy and keep spouting his guff.

    97. G H Graham says:

      I wish that would happen Jim but it won’t. The BBC is also a proven liar so they have no intention of being impartial.

      We can only win this by engaging one person at a time.

    98. YESGUY says:

      The daily wreckord

      Giving it big licks over the threats to Scottish NHS

      Seems the y have a doctor in Newcastle calling it all a scare tactic.

      Bloody shocking paper

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/surgeon-exposed-spreading-bogus-claims-4103150

    99. fred blogger says:

      the poison of a lie is very difficult to cleanse.
      they know it.
      they have nothing to lose by lying, as with a yes vote, they lose their power.
      vote yes, coz, the power will go to where it belongs into the hands of the people for the people.

    100. ephemeralDeception says:

      I am disappointed that Nicola stating that Scotland will start with accepting 5 billion of debt interest payments if we get an asset share without qualifying that our debt share needs to be also arbitrated.

      While the white paper did state that any debt can be calculated via extrapolation from decades past it doesn’t do any favours to look to agree on a pro rata share up front. RUK negotiators will quite understandably challenge any deviation from the debt ratio position before discussing any split of assets.

      Scotlands negotiators have to make a strong case which is difficult enough with no audited accounts. In many ways Fiscal Autonomy would have been much better.
      a) It was a guaranteed YES vote or near enough, very low risk of disappointment and consequence of No.
      b) It would have opened the books on our actual income and expenditure, our full tax take, our trade and cost of Westminster and UK services overall.
      c) It would have been a clear springboard for a full referendum and most importantly, give us a much more solid base for negotiations. As it stands we will probably want a decision within the expected timeframe. The UK can play for time and drag things out. Not everything needs to be fully agreed but we may well decide to take on more debt than we should, simply to have a quick and bipartisan agreement.

    101. Morag says:

      I’d like to see where Monaco comes in the BT version of the World Rich List.

    102. Muscleguy says:

      I have got ‘I’m voting No because I don’t like that Alex Salmond’ and variants (one appended Nicola Sturgeon too. How can you dislike Nicola?).

      My response and it is free to use without attribution is:

      Alex Salmond is just for Christmas
      Independence is forever

      Others on the canvass liked that, do with what you will.

    103. JLT says:

      galamcennalath

      I think you and I are singing from the same hymn sheet when studying the future of the Scottish political parties post-Yes. To be quite honest, I can see Ruthie surviving any sort of furious inquisition post-Yes as the inevitable search for ‘who was culpable in the ending of the Union’ kick off amongst the media and the MP’s who have to come home from Westminster. Same with wee cheeky chappie, Willie Rennie. I think he’s safe. In fact, I expect no casualties of any cull within Scottish Conservatives, not the Liberal Democrats.

      Which therefore leaves the blame with one party, and one party only. And how Cameron and Osborne must be laughing up their sleeve in one sense, as they can easily lay the blame of the whole disaster on one Party …and one man especially. The Tories have distanced themselves brilliantly in this campaign, allowing Darling to carry the rope that will not only hang himself, but the Labour Party in Scotland, as well as destroying Miliband’s chances of winning a General Election. When the muck flies, a lot of it will be thrown at the Labour Party in general. Lamont and Co will also be for the high jump. If anything, Lamont might not have had any dealings at the top end of Better Together, but she did take part in one-on-one debates live on TV (and destroying her credibility with the electorate in the process as she shrieked like a cat as though it was being skinned whenever a question was put to her; even a half decent question that was simple to answer).

      As said, what new phoenix-like Labour Party we will get as it tries to rise from the ashes will be an interesting one, but not only that, I believe it will take some time, maybe a good few years for Labour to rise to a position of power again, as I believe it will be held back internal fighting, civil war, and even the possibility of break-up into two or three smaller parties.

    104. Gary says:

      Is EVERYTHING they say a lie?

    105. JLT says:

      Flower of Scotland says:

      Anyone seen the guy on Facebook saying that they were not allowing YES voters into the STV debate? I don’t know if it’s true, but we do know that they will be spinning it!

      Strangely enough FoS, I was out canvassing in Livingston yesterday, and I got chatting to one gentleman. He said that twice, he received a phone call from one of the polling companies (IPSOS, if I remember), and when they asked him how he was voting, he said ‘Yes’. When they asked him his age, he gave it (he was around 60). They then told him, he would not be involved in the poll as they were after a younger audience. This might be true, but make of it as you will. Personally, if someone is signed up for these type of companies, I would have thought that the age of the participant would have been noted when they first signed up.

      Personally, something stinks in Denmark (no offence Denmark) and even the elderly gentleman believed that the polling companies were at it. Obviously, trying to keep the Yes percentage down.

    106. Jim says:

      Why did Nicola Sturgeon not pull her up for this lie as there is no mention of pre-negotiations in the Edinburgh Agreement?

    107. handclapping says:

      I think the “Google it” is her realising she’s got it wrong and how wrong! Not only is the effort to smear Nicola for having signed our heritage away awry but she is actually calling Call Me Dave as her witness to the no pre-negotiation. Wow, Labour politician quotes Conservative PM for truth 🙂 but you musn’t let the punter see that you are only the gilt on the rotten Tory gingerbread

    108. OT

      RT`s “Kaiser Report” only recently held several interviews with two young University Graduates who have invented a new monetary system that is virtually unbreakable versus thievery because the system has multi-layer encryption – more Secure – than anything seen to date.

      These two Graduate Inventors are from Ayrshire.

      Hopefully, the SNP Govt is every bit as interested as Max Kaiser.?

      I am not advocating anything like a “Plan B” when ” Plan A ” is set in stone, but after Sept, it must be reasonable to explore the prospect of having a future solidly encrypted currency.
      Invented in Scotland by Scots.

    109. Jim Thomson says:

      @YESGUY 1:38

      I voted in their “poll” at the foot of the article and it seems to be stuck at 33% yes and 67% no. That’s also according to a comment I saw in the btl area.

      You’ll notice the article authors as well. Good old Torcuil.

      The list of unconnected quotes buried in the article are all out of context too.

      The type of poor “journalism” we’ve come to know and love from the Daily Wreckord.

    110. Black Douglas says:

      @YESGUY

      Did the same poll on the DR this morning showing the same percentages. Posters complaining it was rigged.

      Removed my cookies and took the poll again and half the comments had changed or been re-rated down or up to show positive for Naysayers but the poll remains the same.

      Every poll so far on DR has shown a massive YES win in the region of 75% yes 25% no.

      Strange how it has now changed and on the eve of another debate! How strange.

      Not

    111. Rhonda says:

      If I am not mistaken, I dont think Nicola Sturgeon signed the Edinburgh Agreement, just Alex Salmond, so thats another lie to add to the others in this story lol

    112. Harry McAye says:

      YESGUY – Much as I hate the Record, I think they may have a point today. Whitford seems to have taken the word of a NE doctor, not checked any facts and mentioned it in her famous youtube speech. She may have got the gist of the argument correct, but it certainly doesn’t seem to apply to the hospitals in Newcastle/Gateshead that she said.

      The Record is filth though. They state again in their comment column about what will we do if we are “not allowed to keep the pound”. Keep tugging that forelock! Who still believes that there is some power that can stop us using pound sterling?

    113. chalks says:

      Fact is, that the writing is on the wall for funding.

      That is the good thing about legislation, it takes a wee while to take effect, but everyone can work out the effect it will have…..afterall, they pass legislation to implement policies.

      Interesting stuff regarding funding going up due to cockups, any links etc, as it would tie a couple of loose ends down on this!

    114. Robert Kerr says:

      @Rhonda

      Please please google it!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Agreement_%282012%29

      Four signatories!

    115. HandandShrimp says:

      The chances are that Kezia has never read the agreement thoroughly or perhaps even looked at since it appeared two years ago and was repeating something she read on some Better Together forum.

      A chancer in other words

    116. annie says:

      Rhonda – no Nicola definitely signed the Edinburgh agreement.

    117. Robert Peffers says:

      Murray McCallum says: 25 August, 2014 at 10:42 am:

      “Even their own supporters must wonder the extent of their lies.

      Kezia Dugdale seems to be relying on a brainless bluff here.”

      May I suggest an alternative idea? Dugdale may be adopting, “Labour’s Last Stand”, in their efforts to defend what they can be certain of holding onto in Scotland?

      That section of the Scottish electorate still daft enough to not be able to understand they have been lied to for decades by London Labour in Scotland. That and the usual Labour troughers, arms-length companies, families and friends who care nothing that we have suffered the lies the rest of us have detected for many years.

    118. seanair says:

      Help me Rhonda, help, help me Rhonda. Please apologise or I might think you are a troll.

    119. Marian says:

      When the Scottish Government announced that there was going to be a referendum I am sure most Scots naively thought that we would get honest and constructive participation in the debate from the Westminster parties where each party would offer Scotland some alternatives to independence that might be worth giving some consideration to.

      But what Scots got instead was the Labour Party joining with the Tories and LibDems to create what they themselves called “Project Fear” whose whole purpose and agenda is to tell lies to scare the bejesus out of the people of Scotland so that they will continue accepting unreformed Westminster rule forever also whatever vindictive punishments that Westminster decides to hand out to Scotland for challenging its hegemony.

    120. gerry parker says:

      @ Rhonda.
      “If I am not mistaken,”

      you are.

    121. Ken500 says:

      Kezia should go away and get a job, instead of troughing it on public money. She might learn something. She is so ignorant, and it shows.

    122. Truth says:

      Kezia has form for this. She used the “use google” line in the first big debate when she was again sitting next to Nicola.

      She is hoping that people will be too busy to check and think that because she said we can check what she is saying, she must be telling the truth.

      It is disgraceful behaviour to do this when you are in fact lying. The danger for her is the cat gets out of the bag and she does herself more harm than good.

    123. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin says:25 August, 2014 at 10:50 am:

      “Why does Nicola Sturgeon let her get away with it? A shake of the head and a “I signed it” is hardly a rebutle.”

      A very competent strategist is quoted as saying, “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake”. That person was Napoleon Bonaparte and Mr. Salmond may well be adopting that strategy. Lets face it the MSM said he lost the debate but the yes campaign has continued to gain ground in the polls. It case you missed it what Nicola was doing was telling everyone that Dugdale was a liar by that shake of the head and the statement together.

    124. Rock says:

      Jim Marshall,

      “The most accomplished liar was of course Tory Bliar who convinced nearly everyone that Saddam Hussein had WMD which could reach London in 45 min.”

      Actually he convinced hardly anyone who wasn’t a war mongerer or jingoistic British Nationalist.

      All the New Labour and Tory war mongerers in Westminster used it as an excuse.

      The million+ people who demonstrated against the war weren’t convinced.

      The point is, the Westminster system, which includes the BBC and the media, is rotten to the core, as has become so glaringly obvious to those on the Yes side.

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      Q – How do you knoe Dugdale is lying?
      A – She’s there isn’t she?

    126. Robert Peffers says:

      Aaargh!

      Robert Peffers says:

      25 August, 2014 at 6:04 pm

      Q – How do you know Dugdale is lying?
      A – She’s there isn’t she?

    127. CameronB Brodie says:

      Generation of Scots are waking up to the fact that they have been robbed of their life opportunities, in order to sustain one of the most centralised and unequal societies in the developed world. Scotland is waking up to the fact that this robbery has been enabled largely through Labour lies.

      As I keep reminding SLabour HQ staff, the game is up for Labour in Scotland.

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/how-different-are-assessments-of-independence-and-devolution-max-an-analysis-of-the-role-of-national-identity-and-party-affiliation/

    128. CameronB Brodie says:

      Wrong link, give me a minute. 😉

    129. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, can’t find it. Please carry on while I google. 🙂

    130. Billy Thomson says:

      Doesn’t k Dougdale concede there will be negotiations on a currency union there?

    131. stonefaction says:

      Was talking to a very posh sounding couple outside a bird hide in Fife on Saturday afternoon. They were on holiday from the Norfolk/Suffolk border area. The husband asked if I’d be voting Yes in the referendum (he hadn’t actually noticed my badges). I said ‘Yes’ and pointed to the badges. He replied that he was actually Irish and that independence was the best thing they had ever done (he wasn’t THAT old) and that he hoped we would do likewise.

    132. donald anderson says:

      Irish twitcher? I thought that, stealing birds eggs, Morris Dancing and gunboat invasion was an English pastime.

    133. You keep calling these people ‘liars’. Why are they not suing you?

      ……. is it because they are!?

    134. stan says:

      Wee thought for the dazed,.. Vote for certainty, VOTE NO,.. and yes, they will ignore us, with a vengeance..

    135. Footsoldier says:

      I really do not think saying someone is a liar will win over many Don’t Knows, whether right or wrong. It is a strong term.

      Well, unless the Rev has falsified the Edinburgh Agreement (EA) which I do not think, I cannot but agree that she is indeed what she stands accused of BUT there is always the possibility she has not read the EA and is relying on others, which makes her misinformed rather than a liar. We do have to be careful in our use of language.

    136. Bob G says:

      Malcolm Chisolm is my next door neighbor
      what can i say

      hes a (censored )

    137. Gary says:

      Dugdale is aproven liar!!

    138. TangerineOms says:

      I think if you watch the clip below it’s David Cameron who will not pre negotiate, and I do believe he told the MP to f**k off!

      http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-tells-mp-angus-1563807

    139. Vallan says:

      The tone and the headline of all these comments here is just unnecessarily nasty, whatever side of the debate you’re on. I don’t suppose it would be possible to just say that she got it wrong? I was involved in organising the debate, and I’m aware she did get it wrong on the subject of the Edinburgh Agreement. But we all know that there were negotiations and statements about the no prenegotiations dating back to then. See these letters

      http://scotreferendum.com/2013/01/an-update-letters-between-me-and-uk-ministers/

      Kezia should have got it right, she shouldn’t have slipped up, but there’s no need to call her a liar.

    140. Vallan says:

      I meant the tone of the headline and many of these comments…

    141. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Kezia should have got it right, she shouldn’t have slipped up, but there’s no need to call her a liar.”

      Or, of course, she knew fine well and was lying. I know which I think it was.

    142. alastair seago says:

      I emailed her asking why she had said this. NO REPLY!!!



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