Green ink and chloroform
This is a tweet today from Allan Sutherland, a prominent No activist (he’s currently co-ordinating an attempt to unseat Ian Blackford in Ross, Skye and Lochaber via Unionist tactical voting) and regular fixture of the letters pages of all Scottish newspapers.
The tweet literally incites – indeed, implores – not one but two very serious criminal offences. (His Twitter account also includes such satirical gems as tweeting a video of the First Minister’s speech on Saturday with the voice of Adolf Hitler dubbed over it.)
The tweet comes days after a Scottish Labour candidate tweeted a meme depicting someone spraying bleach on SNP MP Joanna Cherry with the caption “BANG! and the terf is gone”, despite said candidate being supported by the Jo Cox Foundation – a charity set up after the Labour MP of that name was murdered with a gun.
Sutherland, who lives in Stonehaven, is for some reason hosting an anti-SNP meeting tonight in Maryhill in Glasgow, at which the Lib Dem candidate for Ian Blackford’s seat, Craig Harrow, will for some reason be speaking even though it’s 100 miles from the most southerly point of the Ross, Skye and Lochaber constituency.
We’ve received no response from Mr Harrow to our enquiry as to whether he supports calls for Nicola Sturgeon to be chloroformed and imprisoned (he follows us on Twitter, so we know he got the message), so we can only assume that he has no objections to backing an event hosted by someone espousing such views.
(The contents of Harrow’s own Twitter timeline – which contains a bizarre amount of retweets of Tory politicians rather than Lib Dems, along with various noted psychotic Unionist trolls, would appear to support that assumption.)
Mr Sutherland’s extraordinary and obsessive hatred of the First Minister – equating her to Hitler and calling for her to be assaulted and kidnapped – ought to be a matter of concern to Police Scotland. People have often been arrested and charged for far less serious threats towards politicians than this.
So we hope someone will alert them and appropriate action will result to ensure Nicola Sturgeon’s safety at a time when she’s going to be in regular contact with the public on the campaign trail with little to no security. (The pic below is from this morning.)
Because even if Sutherland himself is just a harmless nutter intending no real danger (which we don’t know), any of his 563 unhinged followers might not be.
One Jo Cox is one too many. If we might very slightly paraphrase the famous US civil rights activist Maya Angelou: when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time, before it’s too late.
chilling
these guys are enabled by the lack of deterrents, legal or financial
the gloves are off now
“then they fight you, then you win”
its gonna get ugly
but it will be beautiful
The truth oozes out of them. Its smells like a turd, looks like a turd and get stuck on the internet like a turd … its unionist supporters – no arguments just rather vile abuse and hatred.
Sounds like the unionists are getting worse but not holding my breath for police scotland getting involved
Still asto iahed at the bbcnot noticing the unionists standing between the cenotaph and the garden or remberance giving nazi salutes also rangers and their badge bei g flaunted
Never cease to be surprised how the one thing than unites unionists is their hatred of everything
Irish, catholics, immigrants Polish, Europeans, coloured people, gay people
Hatred is their one common theme
But who’s going to report it? I was just reading over the weekend that ENGLISH female MPs have been warned not to go out alone or after dark because of threats and this is clearly incitement.
I won’t report it to Police Scotland because I’m not currently in Scotland but what I will do this afternoon, is contact the newsdesks of as many British newspapers as I can find and bring it to their attention and see what happens.
Someone in Scotland should officially report it to the police though otherwise it’s just whinging about how terrible it is and how this MP could get away with saying such a thing.
Regarding British Nationalist coordinated tactical voting:
It appears they have gone from Better Together to Bitter Together.
The SNP will HAVE to GTVO on the 12th of December otherwise MSM/BBC Anti-Scots Gov/SNP propaganda, the standing of paper candidates, the pooling of BritNat votes (and the postal vote) will cost them MPs and us IndyRef2.
FibDem Remain Alliance (except for viewers in Scotland obviously)!
Nasty is as nasty does. He should be charged and put on a watch list, as should the Labour idiot from Leith. Let them defend themselves in court. There is no point in politicians carping on about the respect agenda and allowing blatant threats to go unchallenged.
Why Stonehaven? Why Govanhill? I suspect Tory dark materials on manoevres. Masonics perhaps?
Independence Movement versus Raw Unionist Hatred (Scotland’s brain tumour).
You can smell the fear. Any creature when cornered acts with bravado to show they are not scared, but they are.
This of course wil! get worse, but its all signs we are winning and they cannot handle it. They try to bolster each others morale by being hostile and extreme,to prove “I can hate more than you”.
They are lost, not knowing how to defeat an enemy that will not simply disappear.
Thanks for putting this up Stu, I think the ignorant twat should have @FUD55 on his twatter thingy.
“If we might very slightly paraphrase the famous US civil rights activist Maya Angelou: when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time, before it’s too late.”
The words of a very wise woman, indeed! Think of the serial liar and cheat Johnson and his cohorts in the neoliberal, Trump worshipping Tory party, his offshoring, tax dodging millionaire and billionaire funders and his eminence gris and puppet master Cummings, and her words fit exactly.
OK, that’s all the major UK newspapers contacted regarding this tweet. They all got the following:
“Dear sirs,
I would like to bring to your attention the following ‘Tweet’ regarding potential serious assault to Nicola Sturgeon. This
should be of great concern to anyone who is concerned about the safety of our elected officials:
https://twitter.com/sud55_allan/status/1191085584359387136
https://wingsoverscotland.com/green-ink-and-chloroform/comment-page-1/#comment-2498228
Yours.”
BTW, my source for all my news is The Big Project here, which is how I managed to contact all the papers:
https://www.thebigproject.co.uk/news/
Shug, they have a genetic defect, it’s called dislike of ‘Johnny Foreigner’, that is until they need their help in digging them out of a hole that they’ve got themselves into. Irish nurses in the 40’s through to the’60s, Poles who flew their Spitfires to help win the Battle for Britain not forgetting the thousands of Scots, Irish and Welsh dead that litter the battlefields of the world. Aye, they have short memories.
This will be the media line of questioning…..
‘so, Allan, it could be said you were having a bad day and misjudged this comment slightly, would that be accurate?’
‘meanwhile, back in SNP badland…..’
It is amazing how some of the nastiest candidates in Scotland seem to be the holier-than-thou Lib Dems. With little effort I regard this chap Harrow, Alex Cole-Hamilton and Christine Jardine as thoroughly unpleasant characters.
What is it with LibDems, eh?
Actually I know and it is not pleasant.
They absolutely ooze a sense of entitlement and not just any old entitlement – they ooze British Nationalist Entitlement.
It is pathetically ironic to see Craig Harrow’s twitter and the noises he makes about nationalism when he is without doubt a Little Englander Brexiteer.
Just check his twitter feed where he is retweeting Brexit endorsing Uber Brexiteers of the St George for England type.
So there’s a freebie to those canvassing for Ian Blackford – check out the LibDem candidate’s friends on Twitter, screen shot them, record them – have a look and tell the voters who Craig Harrow really is and what he supports, because Craig Harrow is not a nice person, not even remotely!
This is surely a case for the journalists,paper and broadcasters in Scotland.
Scotland expects…
they know the end is near for the UK and their fear/extremism is now open for all to see
If you go to Craig Harrow’s twitter feed, find Fei Esq. who Craig has retweeted.
Then look at Fei Esq. profile, where you will find a link to oneuk.org/ Brexit tactical voting.
This is a site to assist Brexit supporters to vote tactically by constituency.
Find Ross, Skye & Lochaber – the recommended vote is for Conservative.
All promoted and advertised on Craig Harrow’s twitter feed.
LibDem huh? A BritNat Tory through and through.
Has anyone reported it to the police yet?
I recognise that street 🙂
Craig Harrow has quite the pedigree:
http://archive.is/E52dT
True colours now showing from the hardcore yoonatics like Sutherland.
There should be no toleration of this kind of behaviour. No exceptions. Full weight of law brought to bear.
If you don’t like a party, policy or politician then there is a correct way to deal with that via the ballot box. The ruling SNP government was elected, the FM has a mandate to be our country’s leader. Ok, the system is imperfect with FPTP at WM and list MSPs in Holyrood, but there is a correct, established, and legal route to make challenges.
There can be no excuse in Scotland for believing it’s ok to advocate removal by force! Jeez, is that really what BritNats believe? Their Union is so precious to them they contemplate resorting to violence? Do they not realise the ‘Pandora’s Box’ they might open?
In some ways those questions are rhetorical because we all know there is a dark underbelly to British Nationalism where violence is the modus operandi. The extremists don’t even try to hide it.
BBC Scotland’s Sunday night, two-second clip of the Unionist/Neo Nazi protesters in George Square, with at least one wearing a union flag wrapped around his face to disguise his identity, will have done real damage at a subliminal level. Priceless!
There was an unusually large police presence; I found myself wondering if the cops knew something that we didn’t. I also found myself thinking that The. National ought to have contacted AUOB for advice on how to organise such an event. The low-set stage and the inadequate PA system, not to mention the under-par turnout, made the occasion, IMO, less than it might’ve been.
When the mainstream press indulge themselves in the very thing they condemn after they’ve done the damage of whipping up the violence of people what can we expect but more of the same
This morning I watched the leader of the Welsh party Adam Pryce on the BBC where he was asked questions on voting intentions in his country and Independence for Wales, and in that conversation there were no threats to Wales trade, no threats of borders, no threats over currency, no ridiculing of Wales position on anything, so if the media can behave in that civilised way to Adam Pryce why can they not conduct a similar conversation about Scotland with our elected representatives instead of constantly threatening Scotland with various forms of retribution
The answer is, Scotland is the money and Wales is not, if Wales were to become Independent England would be no poorer they would only lose some property and that’s the difference, whether Wales went on to do well isn’t of any importance to Mr and Mrs England because they don’t have wads of cash right now, but Scotland does so is the immediate threat to Englands economy
There is one more problem Scotland has that Wales does not, we’re stuck with sectarianism just like Northern Ireland and those people are complete head cases with a complete and total lack of all reason and acceptance of facts and no empathy towards other people at all otherwise they wouldn’t name themselves as RaPeepul if they believed others were people too
Social media might be the place where threats are made these days but they began with the MSM tacitly authorising them by the tone and tenor of their headlines articles and nasty interviewing approach to politicians who don’t represent the views that the media or indeed the individual journalist has been told are acceptable to the so called establishment of England
England is the problem, it always was and it will always be, it’s how things are done in that country, then when the desired outcome of something horrible has been achieved they step back in faux horror at what they made happen
They ruled the world with it why should they stop now, it’s who they are
Surely, Harrow, in real life, is not as tedious and unimaginative as his twitter feed would suggest. There’s no need for chloroform after reading all that, yawn.
Thanks Mist001 for your quick response and links at 12:19pm.
@Mist001 at 12.19: thank you for the link to thebigproject for news. Did you use twitter for your message to all the papers or email. I’ve looked at the site and couldn’t see how to email the British newspapers – it would be helpful if you could point me in the right direction.
Thank you.
I find it amusing that certain people in this thread who claim they’re from the central belt of Scotland continue to fail to recognise the red hand of ulster “salute” & claim its a “nazi salute”.
Its frankly beyond belief that ANYONE who’s politically aware and comes from central Scotland is unaware of this. You see it every fucking July and have done for longer than any of you have been alive!
Aw Rev, you MADE me check out Sutherland’s TM.
He has quite a coterie of desperate nutjobs, mostly new names to me, but the same bawbaggery in their arguments…
…those that do bother trying to push their flawed points rather than the majority who simply shriek “Jimmy Krankie” over and over…
Don’t allow England to import vile ideas into Scotland. This form of post clearly shows the cultural differences and if anything strengthens Scotland’s need to split company from England!
I am seriously worried for our First Minister as the Knuckle Draggers would happily use Knuckle Dusters given the opportunity.
Its great that our First Minister is approachable but she is putting herself in danger on our streets.
You clearly see people like Cameron, Bojo and Gordon Brown have guards escorting them to a hidden venue with only supporters and their BBC pals present.
None of them dare walk on a Scottish Street and they know its due to their own actions.
For those that are interested, I contacted the newspapers via email. If you look usually at the bottom of their home pages, you’ll see a link; ‘Contact Us’. I just wrote the original email, the BCC’d it to all of them.
Well we all know that the so called neutral newspapers and unbiased broadcasters will be all over this. Not.
Different standards apply to SNP / Indy miscreants which has allowed the abusive Cybernat nonsense to stick.
Do BBC Scotland agree that the best performing NHS in Scotland should not be a political football.
Well I’ve never claimed to be from the central belt so all I see, in common with the rest of the world, are numpties giving nazi salutes.
I’ll go with a Quora comment from a while back:
“It’s Nazi shit involving an Irish symbol they stole.
the Nazi salute (what they’re doing) was the Roman salute (supposedly what the actual Roman Empire used but in reality it’s a modern invention.) that Hitler got from the Italian fascists
the red hand of Ulster is in reality the red hand of the O’Neill clan (going all the way back to the second century), and the source of their motto “the red hand of Ireland ” Due to the fact that they owned Ulster it became the symbol of Ulster. Fast forward 1500+ years and unionists searching for a symbol to set them out latched on to the oldest and most quintessentially Irish symbol out there.”
A simple Google search will find lots of heated discussions on the subject and history.
Not my Quora comment but I feel it sums it up perfectly
@Vestas,
Your at it mate. I have been watching Orange parades over 50 years and never saw the “Ulster Salute” as you call it.
In fact Sammy Wilxon of the DUP criticised two soldiers doing this very thing zt an Ibrox army day, liking it to fascism which he could never support. It never happens in N Ireland.
It has been adopted by the Rangers support . Their following
has history with the likes of Kombat 18.Fascists.
Full details of Tory funded nutters group here
https://scotlandmatters.co.uk/
My Maw always told me:
“You’re classed by the company you keep” and
“birds of a feather flock together”.
Seems she was right – again.
I want independence as much as you or anyone who frequents your site Stu. However what we must be prepared for if it ever comes to pass is an absolute bloodbath on the streets. I don’t know what anyone else thinks or if you yourself are maybe a little bit sheltered from it living in Bath but coming from Glasgow I know what’s bubbling under the surface. When Rangers were liquidated it hit a lot of their clan hard. They could not admit that one of the pillars of their life had crumbled and they cling on to the subsequent nonsense being espoused in the media about companies and whatnot being what was liquidated. Deep down though they know and it kills them. If the UK was to break up the threat of violence will not just be a threat but very real. I have seen it myself whether sitting in a bothy at work or in a pub drinking in the same vicinity as them. There is no reasoning with them.They will not take it lying down.
If England decided to have its own independence referendum then I think we’d be laughing. They’d definitely vote for it and the Hun hoards would have only their imperial masters to blame and not some teenagers with Saltires wrapped round their shoulders.
Why do the Yoons behave like this? It’s because there’s never any consequences for them for behaving like this. Indeed it seems just to serve to whip up the enthusiasm of their base.
The Green Ink Brigade are noted for their emotional incontinence indeed they vie with angriest Brexit gammons over deranged fury bragging rights (although a Venn diagram of the two groups might be revealing).
I see in other Lib Dem madness Willie asks why Labour doesn’t just fuck off and die (I think that was the gist of his comment, although I may have paraphrased).
In other, other news my Wings badge arrived today. It is very nice. I had forgotten about the Swiss Army credit card.
Vestas
For sure our unionist choooms are undoubtedly red handing. I suppose it becomes problematical in that the views and attitudes of those who have appropriated the red hand salute are pretty extreme and veer closer to those political philosophies of the late 19th century and early 20th century than anything the O’Neils would relate to.
When does a reactionary salute thrown by reactionaries become indistinguishable from every other reactionary salute?
He’s not a liberal, same as Swinson and others. They are Tories through and through, hiding behind a different badge.
What he has in common with all yoons is the aggressive attitude to all subjects, nothing can ever be discussed without a screwed up face and a growl!!!!
It doesn’t say very much for people if they turn out and vote for these morons.
Let them form their unionist alliance. When we still takes seats from them we’ll know for sure we’ve won!!!!!!
Reading the tweets from Allan Sutherland, you would be forgiven for forming the opinion that he simply hates women.
Did the Red Hand of Ulster no come about when two Scots princesses had a boat race from Scotland to see which one would control Ulster,
the first one to put her hand on Ulster was the winner,
one of the princesses was losing so cut of her hand and threw it on the land ahead of her sister,
so she used the Red Hand as her symbol for Ulster.
true story.
Note the deliberate use of the demotic, “Fur Goad’s sake”, in order to try and allay readers’ misgivings about the transgressive nature of the tweet.
Bob Mack
Well done mate, for pulling-up that knob end Vestas for his pathetic wee attempt at diversion.
I have lived nearly all my live in Orange County – Ayrshire I have never seen Vestas’s “Red Hand Salute” and down here, our Marching Season lasts most of the year.
The quarter-wits doing this are Brit Nat Nazis, pure and simple.
Looks like it’s been deleted.
Like to think that The National had the balls to take this head on, and print the “tweet”,
With a corresponding article on such offensive activities.
Nazi salutes in Glasgow go back to the 1930s when the more extreme ‘loyalists’ became deeply involved with Oswald Mosley’s fascists. Eighty odd years on, same group of people, same fascist ideology, same symbols.
Nicola Sturgeon today in Dumfries blames the broadcasters for perpetuating the system they want to see instead of what is, and tells them so on camera, will they show it though
@Sinky
I also see that a couple of media sites have called the SNP the Scottish Nationalist Party (sic). Including the ultra woke Guardian. I wonder if I emailed and said how utterly offended I was they would apologise profusely
According to Forbes, “Steven Gerrard’s Rangers Announce £11m Losses, In A Manner Designed To Hide Them From The Media”
Whatever will they think of next.
Link to Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikemeehallwood/2019/11/03/steven-gerrards-rangers-announce-11m-lossin-a-manner-designed-to-hide-them-from-the-media/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Alan Sutherland showed up at a pro Indy meeting in Peterhead a few years back. Mhairi Black was the keynote speaker.
Now I have met some complete arseholes in my time but a Alan set the bar high that night.
Absolutely nothing constructive or even lucid, just pointless braying and heckling.
A complete and utter, five star, weapons grade, arsehole.
There’s nothing more I can say.
I have to make clear that the abovementioned namesake and notorious discharge of written effluent doesn’t speak for me or my wider family in any way whatever.
You also can’t help but wonder why it is that in Scotland the self-declared “Remainer” FibDems have become so attenuated and morally bankrupt as to need to corral the support of Leaver Cons like this propagandist.
There’s conventional political hypocrisy and there’s cynical FibDem betrayal of everything they claim to believe in. I can’t think of a party that hasn’t compromised itself so comprehensively or fundamentally over the last decade. A shame that won’t easily be erased or forgotten.
One can only speculate what Gina Miller’s Remainer grouping think of how much of their money is leaking across the border and funding this kind of despicable FibDem treachery.
You have to laugh at this one:
https://twitter.com/Jackson_Carlaw/status/1190693352402030596
“While Nicola Sturgeon spent her weekend banging on about #IndyRef2, Scottish Conservatives were out across the country with our simple message. Vote @ScotTories to bring Scotland back together, keep Scotland in the United Kingdom and get Brexit sorted”
with a picture of people holding placards saying “No 2nd Referendum”.
Ho hum.
Craig Harrow seems to retweet a lorra lorra Tories in his Twitter a/c…..you know…the Tories who really really want Brexit..which Craig’s party are pretending…cause votes like….that they don’t….yeh sure…whatever.
Perhaps if anyone is chastised by any prominent ‘liberal’ minded remainer on Twitter you could advise them that in Scotland..the Lib Dems work very very well with some of those Tories up here who endorse Brexit..and also some of the more infamous Unionist trolls too.
Talking of trolls…has Jane Lax’s suspension been lifted yet..cause that is another thing the Tories are very good at …lifting pretendy suspensions from Tory people…who are ONLY suspended when publicly called out…
Craig is not the first Lib Dem to unite and attend meetings with Tories…remember that recent meeting that shows another ‘alliance’ the Lib Dems are orchestrating… which perhaps Jo Swinson is not too keen to publicise to her new remainer fans down south…which shows ANOTHER Tory/Lib Dem coalition :
Last night 23 September 2019 in Fraserburgh an event :
Titled : Scotland Matters
Contributors :
Peter Chapman – Conservative
Mike Rumbles – LIB DEM
Plus Councillor Mark Findlater ( Conservative)
A new forum and network for people for people who want :
Scotland to remain in UK
The SNP defeated and out of government
OPPOSITION parties to start OPPOSING the SNP
Start proposing policies
Win 2021 election
Fix and transform Scotland
Meet people just like you
Find out what you can do to..Fix , Transform and save Scotland
Panel discussion and Q & A
The above is why I laugh at those remainers down south who are lauding the Lib Dems….while knowing full well that their past record is questionable and indeed their motive in jumping on the remain bandwagon is purely political and not driven by a love for the EU…I am not in the least shocked or surprised that a Lib Dem candidate should agree to go to a meeting organised by an uber Unionist obsessed with writing constant SNPBAD letters to unionist papers…while also being the author of vile tweets such as above…that is why I KNOW I am on the right side and that they and their hatred and aggression are not…. My vision for Scotland is one offering hope to any decent minded Scot or NEW Scot who strives for a better future living in a more tolerant and civil society within Scotland …Hope over Hate indeed.
The fact that the Tories and Labour are willing to sit back and allow the Lib Dems to try and take Ian Blackford’s seat proves Jo Swinson is NOT adopting any remain alliance in Scotland but a Unionist one…and the fact she is working with the Brexit Tories in order to do this …then this should be shoved in the faces of those prominent ‘liberal’ minded remainers down south…..perhaps then they will understand why Scotland does not need to embrace a fake remain alliance especially one that would elect a Lib Dem to replace an SNP MP whose remain credentials have been solid from the outset of this Brexit fiasco.
Sad and pathetic way to try and win votes…by cheating…but then that is the Lib Dem way is it not ?
This is an outright incitement to violence, and this guy Sutherland, ought to be charged over it.
And what political group is this thing with?
And what does his lot have to say?
We would like to hear form them.
This is a disgrace, and unacceptable.
There are many supporters of Rangers (and Celtic) who vote SNP and support Scottish independence.
Likewise, there are many Rangers and Celtic fans who are NOT religious bigots.
So, we must be careful not to tar everyone with the same brush.
The fans that support their teams for the fitba and don’t get involved in the negative stuff deserve praise.
————————————
I would argue it’s the bigots who shout the loudest.
Here’s another of Maw’s pearls of wisdom:
“It’s the empty vessel that makes the most noise”.
dadsarmy @ 16:11,
Ah, but the Tories (and their handy little FibDem proxies) are banging on (again) about not having IndyRef2.
Big difference! =grin=
(For all the good it will do them this time round. It merely further exposes their complete political bankrupcy.)
I would just like to remind all these hung Ho unionists that threats and terror are a commodity that can be used by both sides you are not immune from revenge attacks so think carefully before you speak !!!
This kind of thing does not surprise me, I recently had reason to visit engerlandshire (thankfully only the north part Cumbria) and was met with sincere arrogance and that all so famous entitlement attitude.
It’s the first time I was actually fearful of my saltire and snp badges on my car, had to find a dark side road to park in.
If I ever have to endure another Jimmy Crankie quip it will be to soon.
Ever so glad to head north again.
Got my WOS badge, Swiss tool thingy and my tin of sweeties! Happy bunny!
Cheers Stu.
Colin Alexander @ 16:14:
Well, if anyone knows, it’s you, Lord Hee Haw.
Jackson Carlaw must be dyslexic, he can’t tell his vote from his veto!
He has the former, not the latter.
dadsarmy says:
Excellent. Good to see them setting out where they stand. That way, when they get a thrashing and lose most/all their seats there can be no doubt that Scots voters will have rejected them and their raw sub-fascist British Nationalism.
Excluding the SNP from TV events – ‘leaders’ debates and the likes of Question Time.
Is it not about time the SNP took legal action to seek interim interdicts to prevent the broadcast of any programme which features BritNats but excludes them?
If the broadcast media won’t play fair, then they should be blocked by legal means.
I want to see a more robust stance.
12 Years in Government, third biggest party at Westminster, the main and most popular political party in Scotland yet the broadcasters still can’t manage to pronounce the name of the Scottish National Party correctly, which is odd as we can teach 10 year olds to memorise the entire times table by that young age
So are the broadcasters inferior to Scottish school children in their educational standards, are they making mistakes, are they suffering from permanent blows to head,
if it’s none of those things what else is Scotland expected to conclude from the great British English run media than that they are Anti Scotland
Anyone clocked the Indyref2 photo on the BBC website yet –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50288239
Indy ref in the news this week following the rally in Freedom Square, Glasgow where there was small contingent of Unionists tucked out of the way.
Only – this photo was taken in the Royal Mile ( I think) during the AUOB march. The AUOB stewards are wearing the orange hi-vis jackets and the polis are in yellow hi-vis …. but it looks much more menacing than the event on Saturday, more confrontational .
Look closely and you’ll see that the Indy side of the march is smiling!!! Plus we are all looking over to our left as we walk past the sorry, bedraggled, British Nationalists.
Obviously the photos on saturday just didn’t put across enough of their lie….
Since the recent marches and rallies I have noticed that, almost without exception, the Yes supporters in all the photos seem contented and smiling, with children and dogs taking part in what is obviously a happy and fulfilling occasion.
On the other hand, the small Unionist protest groups are always angry, with scowling faces, shouting abuse and suffused with hatred. Sad really. They have nothing positive to offer.
I commented on the name “Freedom Square” in the NATIONAL the other day.
I think it is a senseless thing to call it that.
The first time I heard it, hadn’t a clue what/where person was on about, and I was at those Indy demos all the nights the week leading up to the September 18th Ref.
HERE’S WEE DAVY.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2142578105769766/?multi_permalinks=2944026188958283%2C2944161408944761%2C2944260142268221%2C2944191558941746%2C2944127968948105¬if_id=1572536827470225¬if_t=group_activity
muscleguy @ 3.33 pm
You and me both. See how the Guardian call my home national Party ‘nationalist’, likewise and seeking to ‘break away’ from the UK – all deeply negative stuff on Plaid Cymru’s Election campaign launch.
But it gets worse – cue, who else but the BBC?
They feature Johnson, Corbyn, Swinson and Nicola on a photo of ‘political leaders’. Why? Nicola is not standing for Westminster (where’s the picture of Ian Blackford?) and no mention at all of Liz Saville Roberts – PC Leader at Westminster.
I call ‘Foul!’
The press never announce that the Scottish government have *ruled out* any changes to the Indyref question they just keep banging on about the Electoral Commission as if they can somehow change it, which they can’t because as Michael Russell has already said on multiple occasions now the YES NO question has been used in at least 56 polls since 2014 making it the unquestionable correct question
Funny how the press like to say the UK government can *rule out* certain things but the Scottish government can’t, you get the impression they don’t like the Scottish government having any power at all eh
They couldn’t be anti Scotland could they
The red hand may be associated with some loyalists, but it’s also on the Antrim GAA crest…
I’m born and bred in Edinburgh and I’d never heard of the red hand. Then I watched Peaky Blinders with the Nick Cave song Red Right Hand and Ulsterman references. (btw, imo, was the best prog on tv, don’t know when next series will be, prob next year). So you can be central belt and never have heard or seen these things. I’ve never seen an OO march either.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-50283520
“A Conservative general election candidate has apologised for a Facebook post in which she said people on a TV show needed “putting down”.”
No UK general election to take place:
Sky news announce that a three way debate between Tory Labour and Lib Dem will take place on that channel
Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland have just been excluded from England’s general election
What’s the betting that this fella Sutherland turns up in the audience, for Glasgow’s Question Time!.
Dwi’n aelod o Blaid Cymru, Sion. Nid oes gennyf gywilydd i alw fy hun yn genedlaetholwr Cymraeg, ac fe hoffwn dorri i ffwrdd o’r DU Loegr a dylanwad y Saeson. Dwi’n cymryd dy fod dithau hefyd ?
I am a member of Plaid Cymru, Sion. I am not ashamed to call myself a Welsh nationalist, and I would like to break away from the UK, England and English influence.I assume you’d like the same ?
Vestas…yer talkin shite ma man….’Ulster salute’..yer bawz…that manky mob have been seig heiling since King Billy Fullerton led the Brigton Derry..and they got lifted and interned for being black shirts and British Union of Fascists,( Mosley’s mob) as well as trying to start the Klu Klux Klan all over again in Glesca.
The current scabrous scum linked up with the English casuals during the ’80s when their teams were out of Europe and they started coming up here to Ibroke and following the ‘gers. Suddenly fellow racists and sectarian bigots found a common cause..hence the Englanders’ adoption of ‘No Surrender to the IRA’ moronic chant.
The Red Hand of Ulster.. a symbol representing the conplete original 9 x county province, proud symbol of the O’Neills, the gaelic ruling dynasty predating the forced ‘plantation’ by our border clans driven out at the point of English swords by oor James the Saxt and first of England. Poor deluded folk that then helped to oppress our cousins because they had refused to convert to the new religion.
The colonial rag invented by an English colonial administration was to steal the proud O’Neill ‘Red Hand’ with an add on crown adorning it(!) and superimpose it on a St Georges’s Cross as the ‘fleg’ of the kiddy on ‘province’ of 6 x county ‘Norn Iron’.
Sharny Dubs.
I was down in England. In September and i didnt get anything like that.
I went for breakfast one morning and my accent was clocked by one of the locals. He was a of Pakistani decent, a uni grad, joined the army at 25 and now homeless.
He had a sad life story to tell.
First thing he asked was not how I voted, but how is Scotland different from England?
He got a little lesson on Scottish history.
He was surprised as he’d never heard or been taught about Scottish history and that Scotland as a nation is older than England.
He also wasn’t aware on how our devolved parliament worked, or our different laws, education system etc.
I also said to him that the two people working in the cafe we were sutting in, a Romanian abd a Bulgarian were directly affected by Brexit. The Bulgarian said that he had received his leave to stay for the next 5 years, but the young girl was still waiting to hear and they knew of others that had been refused.
He was surprised at that as he didnt know.
There is a lot that they arent being told down South and are in for one huge big shock.
Lib Dems now taking legal advice on challenging the TV GE event going ahead without her – as the only woman party leader able to become the next PM…. WHAT is she on?
Not even (T)Ruthless was this brass-necked….
Meg Merilees at 5.03pm
Well spotted.
I did not notice any yellow lines when I was in George Square at the area they were encamped.
There were indeed yellow lines on the Edinburgh March.
Also our people were watching the stand at 90 degrees to the position we are being shown in that photo.
Also the photographer must have taken it from the City Chambers.
“……. £25,000 to the Scottish Tories. Lord Sainsbury of Turville gave the money to the party’s Perth and Kinross branch but The Times understands that it is intended to aid Luke Graham, the Ochil and South Perthshire MP. “
http://archive.is/EMZlv
The Tories are going to try very hard to hold O&SP. This could be one of the biggest battleground seats in Scotland.
SNP candidate John Nicolson has launched a crowdfunding page …
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/john-nicolson-snp-ochil-south-perthshire
Dr. Jim at 5.59pm
Good point!
@Dr Jim
As I said at 5:01 …. Is it not about time the SNP took legal action to seek interim interdicts to prevent the broadcast of any programme which features BritNats but excludes them?
I mean, prevent broadcast across Scotland. However, with UK wide satellite being the way many folks get their TV, that would give the broadcasters a serious headache. Tough! They need to be fair and balanced.
Here we go, with the Pacific Quay reporting propaganda election team . The NHS in Scotland apparently centre stage according to Douglas Fraser . Using U.K. NHS polling showing the electorate indicating the U.K. health service getting worse and deliberately leaving the figures on screen to maximise the probability that viewers in Scotland would equate these “ U.K. figures” with the position in Scotland . Is Jackie Bird & co still pulling the strings behind the scenes? I suppose from Douglas Fraser it could be a case of “ old habits die hard” ? Propaganda Quay morning ,noon & night . Always looking over their shoulders for the approval of their London paymasters.
We can only keep hammering away, online and anywhere else (come on The National) about how the UK is only ENgland as far as broadcasters are concerned.
It will slowly get through – but it’s a bugger waiting!!
I see Scotland Tonight advertising what’s on their programme tonight :
Election of new speaker in HOC
AND
Romance in the work place
So is there going to be nothing about Ross Thomson ?
I remember ex SNP MSP Mark McDonald texting debacle….well they had a report about that and a studio discussion with two guests on their programme….AND same thing happened with Michelle Thomson, Natalie McGarry & Alex Salmond.
I mean I know Ross Thomson was more a NI champion MP…what with his constant concerns about NI being treated the SAME as his beloved UK in Brexit…but come on…Scottish Tory..Scottish seat..General election…THIS IS NEWS re this scandal (second time accused) and his resulting ‘standing down’ ( pushed)…is this not considered CURRENT and TOPICAL by a supposed news programme ?…and a SCOTTISH one at that.
Unless perhaps their article on ‘Romance in the workplace’ is going to include a certain bar within the HOC and two Scottish MP’s…where one of them is definitely not looking for romance and the other is looking for a cheap romantic thrill….
Perhaps this proves the programme really should be called ‘UK Tonight’ not really ‘Scotland Tonight’….and only adopts the Scottish perspective when they can indulge in some SNPBAD news…because half the time they have rehashed stories via main news programmes about Westminster with video links from English journalists from English newspapers giving their political opinions……
This is why we need an independent news channel that reports ALL Scottish news from a Scottish perspective and reflecting on any implications for Scotland via decisions made by WM governments…also to highlight achievements and initiatives the Scottish government have implemented that improves lives for many Scots…..really not good enough…obviously whoever controls their political content has, like the BBC, an agenda that is to the detriment of the SNP and to the benefit of the Unionist parties…always has been…. but bearing in mind the growing discontent at what is currently being played out in UKOK, we in Scotland, deserve so much better….and media is one thing that is well overdue for an overhaul….Drain the swamp indeed….
HC 6:04 pm
Cytuno ar y cyfan – ond gogwydd y MSM yw’r drwg. Dim ond yn cymharhol ddiweddarman nhw wedi dysgu (ydyn nhw hefyd?) cyfeirio at y WNP (Welsh Nationalist Party) yn lle Plaid Cymru. Does dim llawer o gyfeillion gynnon ni yn y MSM.
A dw i’n aelod o’r ddwy Blaid.
Agree on the whole – but it’s the MSM spin which I take umbrage to. It’s only fairly recently that they have learnt (and have they?) not to refer the WNP (Welsh Nationalist Party) instead of Plaid Cymru. We don’t have many friends in the MSM.
And I belong to both Parties.
The red Hand is also on the O’Donnell clan badge as a fist clutching a cross. Ive seen lots of Orange Walks but I have never seen the Nazi Salute used at them.
This Sky debate is a farce and I almost feel sorry for Corbyn. I mean, imagine having to debate with TWO dumb tories!
On a serious point, the excuse of “but it’s UK wide parties” is nonsense. The Greens stand candidates across the entire UK but they’re not invited to the party.
It’s all more damning evidence that England and England alone believes itself to be the UK and each of the other countries as territories belonging to England
Hi Balaaargh at 7:35 pm.
You typed,
“The Greens stand candidates across the entire UK but they’re not invited to the party.”
The Green Party (in England [and Wales?]) does not contest seats in Scotland. The Scottish Greens are a totally separate party to the English Greens. The Scottish Greens contest seats in Scotland.
‘Their Union is so precious to them they contemplate resorting to violence?’
Are you seriously asking that question of the bloody butcher’s flag wielders? Never heard of the troubles?
Not the United Kingdom any more, it’s now the Union Kingdom of England
Now everybody should know why broadcasting is considered a power that Westminster refused to devolve
Dr Jim @ 19:52,
Well, isn’t it what that M&S wumman blurted out in an unguarded moment of truth post-2014: “Stop complaining, you’re all English now”?
But even with King Boris in charge it’s taking some time for that truth to penetrate to some.
While others have their fingers very firmly in their ears, because they know that without Party Big Brother in London they are nothing here. Can’t stand on their own feet, so democracy be damned. (But shout the very opposite, of course.)
Hi Brian Doonthetoon,
Yes, the Green Party in England & Wales are a different entity to the Scottish Green party and the Green Party NI but they’re all members of the European Green Party coming under the same umbrella.
Social media bring the thug out of the unionist closet.
The German language, clichéd hatchet job on Sturgeon and the SNP, implying dangerous authoritarian tendencies, he retweets was written by a certain Jörg Luyken, an England born, public school educated ‘freelance’ journalist who appears to have an identity problem. He frequently contributes to the London Daily Telegraph. No political bias then.
By the way, we must be thankful to the 300 year union, it prevented wars between England & Scotland, not quite true, but you get the general stick with nanny drift.
DerSpiegel has a way of wrapping prejudice and bias in semantically manipulated, high flown rhetoric.
So, did anybody actually report the tweet to Police Scotland or what? It seems to have been forgotten about now.
Lindsay Hoyle new Speaker of HOC.
Not a friend of SNP MP’s (mind you..apart from Pete Wishart) no Speaker would be (ahem) impartial in hearing the orations from SNP MP’s.
p.s. Lindsay Hoyle son of Doug Hoyle(LAB) MP?
Did anybody by any chance attend that “Scotland Matters” =cough= get-together in Maryhill tonight? Just to get a feel for who showed up and what was said?
Though why distance-attendee Harrow and fellow FibDem Ford could possibly manage without boaking to share a public platform during an election with reactionary Labourite arch-Leaver Tom Harris, let alone letters-page green-ink serial botherer Allan fae Stoney, I find truly hard to fathom.
(Well, assuming you actually believed in anything different, that is.)
@RJS
Tom Harris admitted yesterday morning on the Shereen Nanjiani programme that he was a Tory and that’s what he’ll be voting
Robert J. Sutherland @ 8-55pm
Are you telling me Tom Harris was a guest speaker at this event?
Wonder if Shereen will block him for any further appearances on her ‘wee Sat chit-chat)…..doubt it!
Dr Jim @ 9-01
Seriously?….he actually said that? (always known he was a Blairite)…..but did he actually VOCAL that?
Please tell me he did.
Labour’s Ian Smart has set up his own election blog. His first piece has Ian playing psephologist and predicting that the SNP will have a net loss of 1 seat and will get 34. Even more hilarious, he forecasts that the Tories will have a net gain of 4 and will have 17 seats.
Wishful thinking clearly. These Labour or ex-Labour ultra yoons like Smart, Harris, McTernan and Dugdale are happy if the Tories ever have any success in Scotland.
OT – Red Hand
Got a feeling it goes back to the Ulster mythologies, Cuchulain the Hound of Ulster and around then. Long time since I read all that stuff, burried in the attic somewhere.
Mmm, throw in Maeve or Maebh with “bh” pronounced “v” as in Cobh. Add some Cormac and a bull (black bull?) and some hero with a cut off hand or something and that’s as far as my vague memories go. But very early AD or even BC – way before the O’Neills, centuries. And the Union wasn’t even a mote in any English King’s e’e.
Just looked it up and it seems to be the “Ulster Cycles”, though I just read it as part of Celtic Mythology which way way back went back and for between Ireland or parts thereof, and Scotland west coast anyway. And what is mythology or glorified story-telling history who knows!
Anyway I’m knackered and off to the pit. Kind of a bit scunnered with the likes of an untimely article in the National from a well-kent SNP figure, the Greens trying to knock out a dozen pro-Indy SNP MPs as their worthless vanity project, all of it from our own side trying to delay Indy Ref 2 for another 312 years by which time my dust will be dust, probably mooondust.
Fuck ’em all.
The SNP sought an interdict to block broadcast of the BBC “I agree with Nick” debate in Scotland during the 2010 election. Lady Smith refused the interdict and they were going for a judicial review however the SNP and BBC withdrew from the review after they agreed that they SNP would be included in debates in future elections. 2015 saw Sturgeon included in debates. She was almost universally acclaimed as the debate winner and the resultant publicity and exposure, the “Sturgeon Surge”, led to the SNP massive seat haul.
In 2017 Sturgeon appeared in a 7 way ITV leaders debate but both Corbyn and May refused to participate. In the BBC debate, May refused again, but Corbyn appeared. Sturgeon refused to appear saying that she wouldn’t have time to do both that and First Ministers questions. Angus Robertson appeared for the SNP.
Personally I think Sturgeon is a fantastic debater and it’s vital she gets as much exposure as possible. The unionists have an inherent advantage with the UK broadcast set up. In order to get a result like 2015, she needs to be seen as equal to the other party leaders. BBC House jock debates won’t cut.
She needs to get on the “national” debates
Tam the Bam. @ 21:01:
Apparently, according to the publicity:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/scotland-matters-in-glasgow-730pm-monday-4th-november-2019-tickets-76770910861
Harris gone full-Tory? Well, just another sign of the increasing sclerosis of NorthBritLab. I guess. FibDems heading the same way. It’s change or die.
They all seem to prefer the latter. In slow motion.
@Davie Oga
Thanks for that timely reminder of election debate times past. I had forgotten the details. 🙂
The SNP is something up with which our big auntie BBC will not put and will not afford the SNP a fair shake and wee auntie wie a kilt is even more staunch agin it.
kapelmeister @ 21:18,
More evidence of NorthBritLab sclerosis. (It just keeps on comin’. It would be funny if it wasn’t also pathetic. They’re back at depending on Tory gains?)
If you can’t adapt to reality, pretend instead it’s adapting to you.
Just don’t ever go out into the real world, then. Could be quite a shock. As on this coming 12th Dec…
me @ 22:07,
kapelmeister @ 21:18,
(Obvs not you yersel, natch. =grin= Them.)
RJS
Nae bother Robert. Ah knew you meant the red Tory North Brits.
An Ode
http://webcomradio.co.uk/myway
Watched ITN news where Labour Leader John MacDonald
Suggested that they may consider Indy ref 2 if the SNP
get a mandate?
We already have a mandate that was voted on and won in Holyrood
But Westminster politicians don’t know nor care about anything done
In the Scottish Parliament.
I really think SNP need to demand a correction from these broadcasters
And inform the ignorant Westminster politicians their mandate is here and it is now.
The claim regarding TV debates that the Liberal Democrats should be included while the SNP/Plaid be excluded, on the grounds that the Lib Dems are a UK wide party doesn’t stand scrutiny.
The Liberal Democrats – same as Labour & Tories – don’t field candidates in Northern Ireland. The Lib Dems won no seats at all in Wales in 2017. They only got 4 in Scotland.
There is no such thing as a UK wide political party.
@Tam the Bam
Sorry it was Saturday morning on Shereen and yup he said it, he also added that he would vote for any party that would deliver a no deal proper Brexit but he wouldn’t vote Brexit party, and he said he keeps his home address private because he fears for the safety of his family, which is kinda an odd thing to say because his neighbours will know won’t they
I’ve always found Tom Harris to be a despicable human being, maybe if he was a nicer person he wouldn’t so be afraid of the nutters out there
I just watched a programme about the rise of Welsh Nationalism, the same as our kind with Plaid Cymru and they had an interview with Carwyn Jones who said that if Scotland becomes Independent England will fall apart and descend into full blown English nationalism of the unpleasant kind
He went on to say that given the behaviour of England he thought it was inevitable that Scotland would leave because Scotland would have no other choice but that Wales Independence might be forced upon them before they were ready in the aftermath
Dr Jim – saw that too, pity the wee lassie who thought Wales was too small to be independent. She’s been supping from the yoon stream I guess.
Wales voted to Leave the EU, if Wales also voted to leave Union with England too it would lose all its subsidies and have to slash taxes and spending fast to attract the businesses it needed to grow its economy fast given its relatively low gdp per capita
Iain Snart says the SNP are going to lose a seat down to 34
Poor man’s been drinking his holiday wine again
Iain Smart
So, ler me get this right. The ‘media are going to have TV debates from what they call ‘UK-wide party leaders’, yet the Labour party are NOT UK wide, the Libdems are not UK-wdie.
No, on reflection, what the ‘media really meant was they are going to have TV debates with ENGLAND-wide party leaders. The SNP could stand in N.Ireland, Wales and Scotland, yet the media would find a form of wordfs to exclude them.
What a disgrace the media are. What a disgrace so-called ‘journalists’ are. They defend what they laughingly call ‘democracy and accountability’, only when it suits them, and only when it’s about ENGLAND.
Just for the record, for any so-called ‘journalists’ the SNP are the party of government in Scotland, they have more than twice as many MSP’s as their nearest rivals, they have more councillors than any other party in Scotland, and in terms of Westminster, have nearly twice the number of MP’s (35) as the Liberal democrats, and are the third largest UK poltical party by membership number.
Yet more proof, if proof were needed, why Scotland needs out of this cursed undemocratic union with England. If the union were so good, as those who suppoort it say, the SNP would not even exist, and half the electorate of Scotland would not be demanding independence from English rule.
Fresh links here:
https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/tuesdays-links/
Anyone who is aggrieved and subscribes to Sky should cancel their subscription and tell them why. Time for the SNP to up the anti. Jo Swinson created a real fuss and hey presto – she’s on.
The UK has never been a Democracy, its a Monarchy, that’s why the leaders of two parties can have televised propaganda broadcast into the homes of voters who mostly support another party. SKY tv are no better, they are happy to include a third party who have only 19 seats in Westminster and ignoring the party with far more Westminster seats. How does this evaluate with Democracy. None of these parties have candidates in N Ireland so claiming its debates are only for UK wide parties do not hold water.
HOYAFUD
The English settlers took the Welsh vote over to the Brexit side.
The Welsh do very well with EU subsidies as they are a backwater
Economy due England first when it comes to investment.
The poor sods are in the same trap that Scotland was when we voted for
Donkeys with red rosettes who never done a thing for us in 50 years.
Their Labour only controlled NHS misses all its targets by a mile and they continue
To deteriorate under incompetent Labour ministers and Tory austerity cuts.
If they could apply the same focus on their independence as they do their rugby
They would be world beaters.
O/T, got this email this morning from the Gov re petitions. The ones I have currently signed are for banning grouse shooting, has over 100000 signatures, but Craig Murray’s petition for independent observers of Indyref 2 has only 11000 signatures!!!!!!! These probably will not be debated in a new parliament now.
Will it be Apathy that kills Indy?
Text below from the email:
Because of the General Election, the closing date for the petitions you signed has changed. All petitions now have to close at 00:01am on 6 November. This is because Parliament will be dissolved, which means all parliamentary business – including petitions – will come to an end until after the election. This means the petitions site will be closed and people will not be able to start or sign petitions.
We’re sorry we weren’t able to give you more notice that this would happen.
The petitions will be available for people to read on the site even though it will be closed for signatures. These petitions won’t be reopened after the election.
The Government can’t respond to petitions during the election period. This means if any of the petitions has over 10,000 signatures, they can’t receive a response from the current Government after 5 November. After the election, the new Government will have to decide whether it wants to respond to petitions from before the election.
The current Petitions Committee, the group of MPs who decide whether petitions are debated, won’t exist after 6 November. This means that if any of the petitions has over 100,000 signatures, they can’t be scheduled for debate during this Parliament. After the election, there will be a new Petitions Committee, and they will be responsible for deciding which petitions are debated.
The petitions site will open again after the election, but at the moment we don’t know exactly when. You can follow us on Twitter @HoCPetitions for updates, or check back on the petitions site for news if you prefer.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269150
I would have more respect for the SNP and its leadership were the party to Ditch the Brit ie recalibrate its worldview away from the themes of UK politico-cultural construct of which stopping Brexit and its manoeuvring is a part.
The SNP must equal independence first and last. Independence does not require ‘justification’ either. All the other stuff is distracting, tiresome, enervating noises off. Politicking for the anal retentive.
Make the UK history….and get on with it.
There are two parallel contests in this GE, debate relating to England’s future with the EU and further movement towards the breakup of the UK. The broadcast media are focused on the first and are ignoring the second. And it’s design, not accident. The SNP represent the biggest danger to the integrity of the UK and are therefore being sidelined whenever possible.
Nicola appeared in 2015 debates and was widely seen as the ‘star of the show’. The establishment clearly didn’t like this. Success at the ballot box may, to some degree, be related to the exposure. They will do their damnedest to prevent that again.
Off topic but important . . .
Many are gloating that the planned postal strike will adversely impact Tory postal votes.
However, this could hurt the SNP as well, particularly as many branches have been encouraging members to take up postal votes.
Should able-bodied would-be postal voters cancel their postal votes? If so you need to do it soon, before you receive it. If you have already received your postal vote it will be too late to cancel your postal vote for this election.
O/T
Damning report on the ‘Integrity Initiative’. Lots of red faces at The Herald or maybe not…
https://twitter.com/Ian_Fraser/status/1191332761203826688
When we have broken up the UK and returned to an Independent Scotland, will we have a hard border with England or not ?
If not, then how will it work practically if we are closer to the EU with many rules and regulations that are different from England ? Some good clear and ‘snappy’ answers please.
Prestwick SNP meeting tonight, should be interesting.
ENGLISH ‘OWNERSHIP’ OF SCOTLAND IS INDEPENDENCE PROBLEM NO.1
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/05/brexiters-ireland-civil-war-troubled-past#comment-135138183
Brexiters evoking Ireland’s civil war should be careful what they wish for
Fintan O’Toole
http://archive.ph/2AYaO
“Wise advice for England’s Brexiteers from Fintan O’Toole – and for those who still believe the UK union is sustainable – but there are so few ways for people in England to hear or discuss this through the fog of the conflation between England and Britain. Most English people probably read that piece without noticing his use of the term “England”, or thinking he just means Britain, when he doesn’t.
There is no parliament, no level of government, no institutional recognition at all of England when it is not also Britain, and there is no forum or basis for any consideration of the distinction and its implications. So the politicians and the public debate in England simply cannot hear what Fintan is saying, or see why it matters.”
So, the English don’t think of ‘England’, they think of Britain, or Great Britain. Who knew? This is revealed most frequently in England when using the word ‘country’, and meaning the UK. The English attitude of ‘owning’ colonies prevails, notably in English Prime Minister’s.
Someone from the Scottish government should ask Boris Johnson why he thinks England owns Scotland, preferably on TV, like in the leaders debate, should the SNP get an invite from Sky.
Old Pete,
Should we become independent and an EU member we would have minimally the same border arrangement with rUK as the EU. It would only be a hard border if the rUK crashes out on No Deal. Which side of the line does Scotland want to be if that happens?
@HYUFD
I see your narrative of Wales, we’ve stripped you of your assets bought our holiday homes and after hundreds of years as our property made sure you are too poor to be a functioning independent country. Not sure the Welsh will agree.
@Old Pete
If there needs to be a hard border then so be it. It’s a much better option than being a ‘loved’ possession. There are land borders all around the world, I’m sure we will would work it out fairly quickly, it’s a not that wide and not that many crossings. Maybe the English MP will want to build a wall.
The more I learn about the depth of English deviousness, and about the all-pervading corruption, the endemic dishonesty and the endless web of lies spun across the whole of the UK, not forgetting the insatiable greed of the Establishment and the political classes who prostitute themselves to the highest bidder, I tend even more toward the opinion that the title of ‘the world’s most evil regime’ belongs to England.
So, forget N Korea, Iran and any other regime chosen by London for demonisation. Sure, these have serious flaws, but compared with England they are amateurs, not least in their hopeless inability to dress their wicked deeds in eye-catching and impressive propaganda. Like English colonial rape and plunder
… plunder, presented as a very successful trading nation.
I see that Sutherland has a long letter in the Tory P&J today castigating the FM and more or less saying get the SNP out,a bit in about the bus going to Fort William.
@Old Pete 9:18am
It would seem there may be initially (and for some years) no difficulty, in that neither country will be in the EU.
Problems only arise where Scotland may transition away from England with regards to taxes/levies/duties on goods and services, or other legislation affecting the quality or standards of goods – in which case customs borders may be required. I say ‘may’ but there is a system (or systems) already in place for this.
With an example of any international trade, the bulk of compliance and relevent payments happens all along the line – From the offices of the manufacturer, trader, shipper, all the logistics, right up until it drops at your door (or a goods inward)
There are random checks of containers and trailers entering and leaving ports of entry. Across the country there are random, multi agency, vehicle inspectorate checks. If you are ever (un)fortunate enough to truck between Scotland & England for a living, you will have been through such checks multiple times.
So the idea of a Trumpian wall lined with razor wire and sentry posts manned by itchy fingered border guards is fantasy. There may certainly be a scenario where there are manned border crossings and possibly holding areas for truck and vehicle checks.
However, to envision that, one only has to be old enough to remember crossing the Erskine Bridge etc. There were few people reaching for kalishnikivovs because they had to stop to hand pennies at the booth (latterly it was chuck em in a chute) or park up their trucks while VOSA had a shufty – Nowadays it would be swiping an NFC card or Mobi and it would be the DVSA having a poke around.
We pass overhead cameras with NPR systems daily on the roads of Scotland and England too. Fall foul of them and swiftly receive a mugshot and pleasant letter informing you of how much lighter your wallet will be that week and how possibly, some stern fellows would also like a personal word at their convenience.
Indeed, if you travel continentally, coaches and commercial vehicles have ID automatically scanned at border crossings and indeed some also require the stopping and ‘swiping’ of a card – everything from cargo to passenger manifests is contained thereon. It’s no more or less hassle than crossing the old Erskine brig and often coupled with “services” where a handy comfort break and cuppa can be had, if you’re so inclined.
Of course we are into the realms of ‘Free Britons’ utter abhorrence of anything which smacks of ID cards and border guards “Your papers are not in order” This is risible to anyone who has ever driven on our roads and flown in and out the UK, as that is precisely what is required and encountered and it barely raises an eyelid – our airports are even replete with “Border Force Ya Bass!”
That’s all I have at the moment for scenarios, not heavy on the minutiae of technical details, legislation and bureaucracy you may be looking for admittedly.
SilverDarling thanks for that link re Institute for Statecraft , i sent a email of complaint when i first saw it on Wings their application was fraudulent from the start ,i will today be in contact with OSCR by email & reminding them of that fact & to ask OSCR to forward a report to Police Scotland .
Comoan Wingers inundate OSCR with E Mails & get these people held to account .
https://www.oscr.org.uk/contact-oscr/ Email addy on that page .
Back on my Constitutional hobby horse, but if the “British” Propagandists want to exclude Scotland from UK debate with a General Election imminent, that would to my eye, appear to be dereliction of Westminster’s reserved responsibility to administer Broadcasting for Scotland, and thus Scotland has the sovereign right and circumstantial justification to arbitrarily remove Broadcasting from Westminster’s portfolio. If they can’t do it properly, then we’ll do it ourselves.
At least it might warrant a mini plebiscite…
If Unionists don’t like Referendums, let’s give them a dozen, and every one of those, a dozen occasions to formally dispute Westminster’s faux sovereign authority.
Set up a referendum outside Holyrood, – an organic and spontaneous referendum of the people. We could use it to trial block chain voting protocols as a pilot method… Outside of Holyrood’s Control, shutting Holyrood would not avail them.
If Scotland’s people are sovereign, let’s have Scotland’s people get coordinated to make Scotland virtually ungovernable by Westminster, so they cannot move for Constitutional bear traps.
Hey, you want a gradualist approach… Take back Government a line of text at a time. But take it back and keep it.
Old Pete says:
5 November, 2019 at 9:18 am
When we have broken up the UK and returned to an Independent Scotland, will we have a hard border with England or not ?
I say yes we will have a hard Border Pete. We will need, and want, a hard border to control deregulated produce from South of the Border which would otherwise threaten Scotland’s alignment with European Standards and contribute to economic divergence.
As for a “hard” Border, that would depend on how aggressively English produce and deregulation sought to undermine Scotland’s European alignment.
I personally have no qualms whatsoever about a hard border. None.
@ScotsRenewables
Yeah, thought so as I think my boy had to do this one year, but I checked it out anyway:
“If you can’t post your postal vote pack in time, you can take it your polling station or to your local authority on polling day.”
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/how-cast-your-vote/voting-post
I’ve a feeling you can take to ANY polling station in your local authority area – it would say it ON the postal vote pack.
A border with england but oddly enough not with NI
england will have a border with both 🙂
@ ronnie anderson
You are welcome. I have already sent in a complaint to the OSCR.
I am not surprised that since the release of the report it has been shockingly quiet but we should be used to deep state cover ups. So many in the MSM were eager to buy into it and be either useful idiots or something more sinister.
And of course the usual persistent rubbishing of the few intrepid souls who saw through IfS and that it was a cover for II Psy Ops all along.
————————————————————————————————-
Jo Swinson’s speech today. Where to start?
Lots of obfuscation about goals and values. We know her supposed values change as her goals become closer.
I see that people believe she could never become PM because of EVEL. Well EVEL can be done away with and should she ever get the opportunity I’m sure she would do her utmost to get rid of any pesky obstacles in her way.
What we are now seeing is Better Together as an ongoing entity with informal pacts and shared aims. It won’t be long before they form a Party.
Rees Mogg, ehh, what can you say? A solid asset for anyone opposing the Tories? It really is a wonder Tory strategists let him out by himself. Actually, his views and attitudes will appeal to some Tories, their problem is that everyone else hears them too!
Makes you wonder if he might think The Handmaid’s Tale is some sort of instructions manual!
@ ScotsRenewables at 9.15 and dadsarmy at 11.29
Completed postal ballots can be returned to the council offices by hand at any time, or to any polling place on the day – the problem will be if the postal strike affects the delivery of the blank ballots to the voters.
I haven’t kept up with the proposed strike dates, but the deadline for requesting (or, presumably, cancelling) a postal vote is 5pm on 27 November.
Remember that the main Westminster Parties are working toward
Having hard borders with 27 EU countries where none exist right now.
They already have borders on trade with the rest of the world.
So borders with Scotland will be required otherwise Scotland’s Brands
Currently protected by the EU will be vulnerable to English Whisky,
Scot- ish like Salmon, Aberdeen Angus from Anglesey, etc
As the English see themselves as superior beings then let’s make sure
They get to Stay in their own wee world.
“The government is still reportedly pushing ahead with plans for a controversial post-Brexit festival of Great Britain and Northern Ireland …. Set to take place in 2022, the event will reportedly deliver an “exciting programme” of arts, culture, design and technology in the same year as the Queen’s platinum jubilee and the 100th anniversary of the BBC. “
https://www.nme.com/news/music/festival-brexit-still-going-ahead-2564579
2022, they say? Well, if things go to plan in Scotland, there won’t be any Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland left to celebrate! The BBC will have been broken up too.
There are so many positive reasons to look forward to our independence with our wee country taking its formal place in the world. However, I confess openly to also expecting some schadenfreude directed on those who have undermined our quest for self determination.
Yes East Ayrshire Fundraiser 2019 is going until the end of the month.
Currently has £120 of £2000 target, so please help, and if you can’t donate please share.
Hoots!
😉
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/yes-east-ayrshire-crowdfunder-2019-1
@ Breeks 11:18 am
Gets my vote.
I’ve championed LBC for a number of years, not anymore ,just switched off for the last time. They have turned into the BBC with the addition of very annoying adverts, SNP now classed in the “other parties” bracket.
Pathetic.
London Broadcasting Corporation.
You’ve been found out, by showing your Establishment hand.
@ Breeks at 11:28am
A hard border with 2000 years of history behind it could be quite a money-spinner. I don;t know how much of a tourist attraction Hadrian’s Wall is but I’m sure Visit Scotland could easily polish the idea and come up with a 21st century spin about it protecting Scotland from the barbarians in the south.
I see Kathleen Leslie has brought herself to the fore
– again
trying to get ahead, no doubt
I once visited Check Point Charlie the border between East and West Germany.
Perhaps we should make ours Check Point Boris or
Check Point Nigel?
Stuart MacKay @1:33 pm.
Nice thought Stuart, unfortunately Hadrian wall is way south of the actual Scottish/English border.
(Although I’ve always thought that the Romans did get “their ” border in the correct location).
You would think that NO voters would understand by now that Scotland’s exclusion from this general election means them too
Even if the NO voters wish that the Tories win comes true, nothing will have changed England’s attitude towards Scotland, in fact it’ll make it worse because England will puff out their chest in victory and say that it proves that Scotland wishes England to be superior and that Scots are happy to remain voiceless
Remember this NO voters, how can you tell which of us are the verminous race and which aren’t, how does England determine the difference between us, the short answer is they don’t and won’t because to them we verminous race of Scots are all the same
All Scots answer back, that makes us all unwanted
I got a 12 hour twitter ban on Sunday night for telling the Express and their so called journalist the lied about Nicola Sturgeon being humiliated by the manky jaikit crew on Saturday. Photshopped photos which bear no resemblance to the actual event, I know because I was there. Needless to say when I said I wish the express should find it’s self in administration and die, I got censored.
@ SilverDarling @ 11.50am
Hi Good post SilverDarling.
Re what you wrote “I see that people believe she could never become PM because of EVEL. Well EVEL can be done away with”
Yes you are right SilverDarling EVEL can be done away with…BUT…what do they replace it with…EVEL was a Tory way to appease the English that they would have a voice and that only English MP’s would get a say in English matters at WM…Not another one I hear many say…yep ANOTHER voice…like their majority of English MP’s representing English constituencies in HOC that dominate all other areas of UKOK is not enough…How greedy can one area of UKOK be ?….well very actually.
So how would Swinson square that circle…well the mind boggles on that one…as much as it boggles at the credibility of her actually believing she could be the next PM….no I am sure Swinson hopes no one addresses that particular issue because she is relying on the English vote….and of course like other Unionist parties she has to be all things to all people to keep on side the various voters within all parts of UKOK…so she would not want, pre GE and thus during campaign, anyone highlighting the possibility of EVEL being rescinded and replaced with what ?….something that would alienate Scots voters ?
Rock and a hard place if this was brought up to her pre election especially in the context of her aspirations of being next PM…so hopefully some SNP MSP..MP…OR some media individual, sympathetic to Indy , brings this up with her….doubt she has even given it a thought …but if she has…she’ll hope it is not raised as this is indeed a tricky little awkward situation where one has to appear to consider English voice still (Lol) be heard and represented and yet somehow not appear unfair to the country where one’s own constituency is ……wow that’s a hard one Jo …Lol
Tip for the day…one cannot be all things to all people when all of the people do not want all of the things you offer….a unique conundrum in the context of Unionist parties fighting for seats throughout the UKOK…. but unfortunately they are all allowed to lie that it is indeed possible to present the above as a credible and workable vision within a Brexit UKOK and that this message fits all areas North-South-West-East of the UK……..NAH…not working for Scotland.
Laugh of the Day…Remainer peeps down South see the Lib Dems as noble in fighting against the Brexit Tories for a remain majority at next election…while here in Scotland the Lib Dems are fighting WITH the Brexit Tories thus undermining one part of the supposed remain alliance by enabling a Tory Brexiteer to be elected rather than a SNP remainer….laugh…not really…but chuckled at the willingness to be made mugs of that our remainer friends down south seem to be embracing…who still need convincing of the duplicity of the Lib Dems…..Never Trust a Tory…nope not just Tories….( Let’s not forget Labour are also playing their part in ensuring that THEY as Unionists get their man/woman elected…and when I say THEIR man/woman I mean of course a Unionist gets elected over a remainer SNP i.e. a Unionist of ANY colour Yellow Blue or Red ).
…Never trust a Unionist…Yellow/Red/Blue Unionist.
A HUSBAND DOES NOT OWN HIS WIFE.
ENGLAND DOES NOT OWN SCOTLAND.
The United Kingdom is an Act of Union of two Kingdoms. Jeremy Corbyn seems to either overlook or overrule that.
Watched Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn MP speaking at Chorley today, and I have to say, for the first time, I was impressed by both content and presentation.
But, like Johnson, he believes that Scotland is a part of his ‘country’.
It may be part of ‘Elgin Marbles Syndrome’, whereby you hang on to stolen property for long enough to convince yourself it’s yours.
The English sense of ‘entitlement’ is staggering, and yet it is only one of many similar characteristics of English Imperialist Colonialism, which is tragically having a resurgence, not only in the Ruling Class, but is also spreading downwards and outwards, including, notably, the Labour Party.
“ …Never trust a Unionist…Yellow/Red/Blue Unionist.”
You forgot about the GREEN ones @ Clapper57 says at 2:07 pm
Think you should launch a wings party for the holyrood elections but only after the general election.
Unionists would make it a split
Get the ducks lined up
Jockanese Wind Talker @ 2.30pm
Lol….oh you are awful…but I likey you…Lol
If you mix Blue and yellow…you get Green…true dat…so technically…in a underhanded roundabout way I didn’t …you just needed to see the subliminal message via the colours I mentioned and mix two of them to get the other one..Green……
Oh F*%* it yes.. you are right.. I did forget them……….Lol
@ Alabaman 1:45pm
You’re right and pardon my ignorance. I don’t suppose there is any long standing territorial claim that could be dusted off and waved around – just for the fun of it?
@Stuart MacKay
Doncaster? Apparently Scotland owns Doncaster:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doncaster
Doncaster voted to Leave 69% / 31% so I doubt they’d be happy about coming with us but Newcastle upon Tyne voted to Remain 50.7% / 49.3% so maybe we could organise some kind of swap and we could reinstate my Hadrian’s Wall plan.
Gary45% says:
5 November, 2019 at 1:29 pm
“I’ve championed LBC for a number of years, not anymore ,just switched off for the last time. They have turned into the BBC with the addition of very annoying adverts, SNP now classed in the “other parties” bracket.
Pathetic.
London Broadcasting Corporation.
You’ve been found out, by showing your Establishment hand.”
……………
You can’t expect anything else from them Gary. The SNP only stand in Scotland, so from their point of view is just “another” party. I look forward to the day when they describe the SNP as a party in another country.
Clapper57 said:
Good luck to them because those are mutually exclusive aims!
@Stuart MacKay
They wanted to in 2014, or at least the Mayor did, but might have changed their minds now with Brexit.
The Lib Dems think they can get away with justifying the omission of Nicola Sturgeon in leaders televised debates by stating that THEY , like the Tories and Labour, are ‘UK’ parties so that is a legitimate reason for NOT including Nicola Sturgeon in debate show..but the UK includes SCOTLAND does it not ?…..you know that country they keep saying is a part of the UKOK and where ALL of them are fielding candidates in GE..including SNP…Ja…is that so ?
Scotland where they, the Lib Dems, Tories and Labour will be canvassing and campaigning for their candidates in the upcoming General election…Ja ?
So in Scotland…. this televised debate/s is to be an additional opportunity for them as Unionist political parties via their respective leaders to convey their policies and arguments and promote their party on national television to be viewed by all within UK…including Scottish voters.
BUT somehow , in Lib Dem’s small minds, it is just to be accepted as a missed opportunity for the SNP’s leader ( Third largest party at WM) to NOT be given the same additional very public platform to reach voters within Scotland….oh I see what you are doing there….free (and very public) speech but NOT FOR YOU SNP….THE PARTY CURRENTLY WITH MOST SEATS IN SCOTLAND AND MORE SEATS IN WM THAN US THE LIB DEMS….
AND the Lib Dems want Scots to view them as democrats ?
Is that being economical as democratics ?….where they endorse democracy in SOME matters but NOT in others ?
“Well Hello..I’m a Liberal Democrat and I am standing as a candidate in Scotland…my leader is debating on national television via Sky with other Leaders ( Unionist ones) however we as democrats do not extend the same democratic right to debate on ‘Live’ TV to a party, the SNP, that we disagree with…or rather who disagrees with us on Scotland remaining in the Union…
We will however debate other parties on ‘Live’ TV that we disagree with because they are Unionist parties…. even though we are pretending we are remainers and we know they are leavers who promote and want Brexit …go figure that logic if you will…works for me a Lib Dem…win win…Lol.
Vote for me…I’m Liberal..I’m a democrat…but only if you are a Unionist”.
So Greens, Plaid and SNP….are to be silenced by omission…
Wow this UKOK seems to really work for some…i.e. the few ( Scots who vote for Unionists parties in Scotland)…but not for the many ( Scots who vote for the SNP in Scotland ).
Could they BE more illiberal and undemocratic….those Liberal (not) Democrats (Not) ?
Ammo for discussing the Scottish economy with NO voters. Take the Business for Scotland quiz and be amazed. Only 10 questions but then you will be tempted to buy the book with ALL the answers. I did.
I only scored 5/10. But wiser now.
https://t.co/cGCEnxM4px?amp=1
@ Craig P @ 3.38pm
Indeed Craig…well said.
So the media BBC ITV SKY and radio and newspapers acting n behalf of England are shutting Scotland Wales NI out of the political discussions of the GE.
What’s new.
When will england send in the army that’s what I’d like to know.
Hi @Clapper 57 2.07 pm!
I am scunnered with her and the Lib Dems. They are already sending out their avalanches of leaflets with the Jo Swinson Party all over them.
This ‘Stop Brexit’ is all crap – she knows it is a done deal and she is trying to raise her profile using this as a platform. She won’t be PM and she won’t achieve stopping Brexit so what is this campaign all about for her?
She was asked this morning what she would do if and when Brexit went ahead. She hummed and hawed but we know IndyRef2 will come as soon as that happens. She will need another project – Better Together 2 with Swinson the face of the campaign promoting the LibDem federal UK.
Everything can be undone in the blink of an eye because it is all based on short term thinking. David Cameron did everything to keep the English voters and Tory party happy until they got the EU referendum dealt with. It didn’t go his way but the mess is still there. The Fixed Term parliament Act was a sop to the LibDems to reassure them they would get at least 5 years in Government but that looks like it will go in the next Parliament too.
What would getting rid of EVEL achieve? That’s the point isn’t it? EVEL was another short term fix to pretend that disparate nations can live under the unfair rules.
I think she would be very happy to have Scotland relegated to a region in their Federal dreamland with the UK Parliament taking the ‘important decisions’. If the English regions achieve the same status as Scotland what need is there for EVEL?
Swinson appears to think there is no difference between the Scots and the English – to her we are a region and I am sure she thinks the same way about NI or Wales. She has been truly assimilated into the One Nation Toryism. Why she is in the LibDems is a mystery.
That is what I find frightening about her.
I have only ever voted SNP. That includes when it was a total lost cause against Willie Ross in Kilmarnock.
Being pragmatic I used to feel some relief when Labour won over Tories at WM. By the end of Blair’s period, and then Brown’s, I was left feeling there really wasn’t much to chose.
I suppose I had some sympathies for the Liberals/LibDems. If I had been English in England, I might have voted for them. All sympathy evaporated with the Cameron coalition. The LibDems really only had one job to do, make sure a proper PR system was introduced in WM. They failed, and instead facilitated Tory austerity.
So here we are, GE 2019 in Scotland. Whatever anyone thinks this is a two horse race between the SNP and the combined and cooperating BritNats. All Tories of different colours.
Roll on Indy and a massive clean out clean up of Scottish politics.
“ The onus is on the Conservatives to prove that we are not living in a state where wealthy Russian interests are buying influence at the very heart of government. ”
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/11/05/how-do-you-say-buying-influence-in-russian/
Should we not ‘pop’ along to Maryhill tonight to errrrr….see what these erseholes extraordinaire Harrow and Sutherland are saying
Anyone considered that Boris is sitting on the Russian electoral influence report at the behest of Trump? Just saying…
BTW, perhaps the SNP should field a candidate in South Berwick so as not to be denied a chair at TV debates for being a Scotland only party. They wouldn’t like that up-em Captain Mainwaring!
The Precious Union is coming unstuck rapidly with Brexit:
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18015649.brexit-could-mean-border-checks-england-scotland-wales/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor
“Border checks between Scotland, England and Wales could be required because of varying food standards after Brexit, academics have warned.”
bearing in mind that Food Safety Standards are devolved since 2015:
https://www.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/media/document/foodandfeedlawguide.pdf
“Feed and food safety and standards are devolved matters in the UK.
Chick chick chick chick chicken, lay a little egg for me.
Chick chick chick chick chicken, I’m stuck south of the Tweed.
I haven’t laid an egg since Easter, I have chlorine in my pee.
So chick chick chick chick chicken, I’ll never get to Dundee.
After Brexit, if lots of English sourced food is deemed unfit for human consumption in this country, am I bothered? Not at all.
Quality producers in England will ensure their products comply with higher standards necessary for export. As for the sub standard stuff tainted by US content, we are better off without. That is, after all, the entire point of the EU standards.
There’s more to it than chlorine and growth hormones. US food standards comprise a long list of levels at which contaminants are deemed acceptable … so much rat shit, so many maggots, etc by weight. EU standards say, none.
Anyways, Scotland should be independent by the time England does trade deals and lowers standards. Varying standards within mainland Britain still in union are likely to be overtaken by bigger events!
After generations of predictable sameness in politics, England has been thrust into a whole new ball-game.
Like asking The Arsenal to start playing rugby just before taking the field for the second half of what was a football match. Brexit is a different game altogether.
And so, people are switching to the LibDems, because they are seen as the only reasonable escape route from the extremes of Boris Johnson’s new Far-Right version of the Tory Party.
As for ‘Tory-Jo’ Swinson, it seems to me, she is actually a Tory with a split personality, which may explain the reason why she is hesitant, appears not fully focused, and, for a viewer, is hard to work out what she is about.
Furthermore, her eyes are not quite right, as if she is panicking slightly, lest perhaps she might suddenly come to her senses and be compelled to join the Tory Party.
Or better still, get a job that suits her.
She is like someone who always wears clothes that are slightly too big for her.
I swear, we’re about to be living soon in another world, one which is not even born yet, but which is expected quite soon, according to the Brexit mid-wife.
I’ll get my hat & coat.
@galamcennalath
*cough*
It means we’ll already need a hard border even without Independence …
EU Withdrawal Act enables the devolution power grab.
I expect Scotland will be brought into alignment with GB.
“EU Withdrawal Act enables the devolution power grab”
That’s powers being repatriated from the EU you dickwad.
“I expect Scotland will be brought into alignment with GB.”
What sort of political entity is “GB” when it’s at home? Haven’t you learnt anything yet?
SNP spokesperson arguing for BBC and SKY to rethink their arrangements for the GE debate to include the FM.
“Or what will you do?” asks the BBC interviewer with a shrug. 🙁
PS:
Philip Hammond standing down as an MP.
SilverDarling
I don’t know what it is but I just cannot take to the LD leader. Her false smile reminds me of my History degree studies a few decades ago. She comes over to me as one of those creepy female guards at Ravensbruck concentration camp.
robertknight says:
5 November, 2019 at 4:14 pm
Anyone considered that Boris is sitting on the Russian electoral influence report at the behest of Trump? Just saying…
BTW, perhaps the SNP should field a candidate in South Berwick so as not to be denied a chair at TV debates for being a Scotland only party. They wouldn’t like that up-em Captain Mainwaring!
This1 I would contribute to a crowdfunder for a couple of SNP candidates in NI and England.
dadsarmy says:
Oh, what a shame 🙂
@Marcia 4.55 pm
I know what you mean and I am trying not to be too personal about her but I have quite a visceral reaction of dislike when I see and hear her. I am trying to qualify it with reason but I just don’t trust her.
I see references to protracted post-YES vote negotiations, a ‘deal’, and even the loony suggestion of anther vote on said ‘deal’.
Sorry, I don’t get it. Scotland asserts the sovereign wish of the people and sets an independence date. The timing is of no concern to anyone else.
What is there to negotiate? Our borders are clear and the assets within those borders clearly ours. There needs to be negotiations about divvying up the shared assets we’ve paid for, but against those there is perhaps a question of debt. That, however, is IMO unrelated to us setting up our new state apparatus. TBH, I expect arguing about assets to go on after Indy!
The BritNats seem to have a fallback position that after YES there will be an opportunity for London to dictate what happens next. And with that have an extensive delay. I don’t think that’s how international law works after a legal referendum.
There is one biggy, though. rUK will want continuing state status. The seat at the UK Security Council depends on that. That’s a lot of leverage Scotland has because they won’t want a simple dissolution of the Union leaving two equal countries.
When the USSR ‘broke up’ what actually happened is that Russia became the continuing state with UN status and ALL the national debt. Perhaps that is the simple model which will be applied.
dadsarmy
Asked: “What sort of political entity is “GB” when it’s at home? Haven’t you learnt anything yet?”
The UK state is: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Currently, the Empire wants to give N.Ireland it’s own deal. That leaves GB.
Scotland disnae get a mention. Just the way the Empire likes it. That’s reflected by the TV debates:
Scotland and the SNP are “regional” politics.
For those who think ‘satire is dead’ might be an exaggeration.
This is something we should spread far and wide.
Vote SNP to keep Scotland out of the reach of this woman.
https://twitter.com/Alyssa_Milano/status/1191560809933103105
For Marcia @ 4.55 pm and
For SilverDarling @ 5.11 pm
Joanne Swinson – you’re nae my jo
Joanne Swinson – you’re nae my jo.
When we were first acquent,
You were ain young Liberal,
Wi’ aw’ your principles spent.
An’ now you’re aulder, Jo,
Wi’ ither principles, mich like the snaw;
Whan comes yon sun o’ spring, doth thaw.
Aye, Joanne Swinson – you’re nae my jo.
Joanne Swinson – you’re nae my jo.
We’d never work thegither;
And manys a cantie day, Jo,
We had wi’oot ane anither:
Now I maun to gae my way, Jo;
Free o’ you – to indy, I maun go,
An’ be rid o’ ye – aye, better wi’oot ye.
Aye, Joanne Swinson – you’re nae my jo.
[With acknowledgements]
Re Colin Alexander @ 5.18pm
Must be near the end of your shift Colin. Time to go back under your stone. Remember to clean up behind you when you go and take your crap with you.
Considering 11 nuclear submarines will be based at Faslane in 2020, and a new class of submarine due in 2028 it is a bit disconcerting to read that Jo Swinson as PM would push the button.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1191690011349045248
Does she want to scupper any chance the Lib-Dems have of gaining seats and becoming the third party at Westminster?
@ SilverDarling @ 3.51pm
Indeed SilverDarling…EVEL, we all know, was a concept that was created long before the 2014 Indy Ref….and when Indy Ref raised it’s ‘ugly’ ( as viewed by English Tories et al) head Cameron told certain ‘English’ uber alles Tory MP’s to haud their wheesht until after Indy Ref result as they would be rewarded via an announcement…one to the benefit of England and the English….and one that would put Scotland and the Scots back into their rightful place…i.e. behind England and the English.
Swinson does not want to acknowledge EVEL as it was given birth, via it’s announcement, the morning after the Indy Ref and was clearly a slap in the face to all of those Scots who believed Cameron’s lies about us Scots ‘Leading not leaving the UK’….it also highlights the distinction and uniqueness of different parts of the UKOK which does not fit into the Swinson fantasy of a ‘UNITED’ Kingdom where ‘One UKOK Government to rule them all, one Government to find them, One Government to bring them all and in the darkness bind them’….Lol…there is no one size fits all in the UKOK..as each nation has distinct needs and cultures that cannot be met by an uber UKOK government that sits in one nation only…hence devolution…….but Jo knows all that.
The problem she has is that , like other Unionists, she chooses to ignore…at her peril and others…that we in Scotland are now more politically engaged and via Brexit some in England too are now openly conceding the disparity that exists in UK politics via WM and the complicit role the media plays in promoting specific political parties and giving a platform to dubious individuals from right wing Think Tanks and those who were once on the fringe of politics but who now, thanks to the media, have now become an integral and ugly part….could include Lib Dems in that last part Lol.
Nigel Farage( seven time loser in attempts to become an MP ) was initially treated as a (very) small thorn in the side within politics but the more he was hyped up and given a regular slot on various MSM TV programmes he then became a force to be reckoned with….in the debate on the EU membership….a debate BTW initially requested I believe by Jo Swinson in HOC ” she voted in 2008 for an in/out referendum on EU membership” when Nick Clegg was leader….AND ” She repeated this sentiment again in 2009, saying: “It is time for the people of Britain to have their say on Europe.”…..
Uber Remainer Jo Swinson Nein…Euro Sceptic Jo Swinson…well Duh… Ja…
Swinson is fighting a lost cause…she is fighting to maintain a broken system that not only does not work for Scots but also for many English too who , geographically, are more Northern than Southern English and thus feel distanced and forgotten about from WM politics and it’s London centralised control…..but she has ambition and that is a fierce and relentless master that people like her easily submit to….she knows she can never be PM…but as a potential king maker she can have her place at the table….again…to include getting Brexit done obvs…priorities Ja.
I could scream in despair at the apathy and willing concessions some of my fellow Scots are willing , for whatever reason, to allow this shit show to continue for us in Scotland…is there never going to be that ‘lightbulb’ moment when they finally realise…that we who want independence were and are right and the Unionists were always and still are wrong…for Scotland and it’s people….and Swinson is a player and she only wants to win…and is in politics NOT to make a difference for us Scots but for HERSELF and her UKOK political ambition.
Do NOT vote Lib Dem if you are Pro EU in Scotland because they will not yield to what Scotland wants or needs but , like other Unionists, they will yield to those who can give them REAL power in their UKOK…and that is to the English who via population can ascend them into a position of gaining enough seats to form a coalition (again) in the UKOK Parliament.
Ooops sorry I have just fallen off my friggen soapbox so enough from me….the Wings ranter strikes again..ranter by name and ranter by nature…Lol
Have a good evening SilverDarling
@galamcennalath
It’s a real pain, it means with that hard border our current devolved state will be hardly any different from when we’re Independent.
Oh, wait …
@Elmac
I think he’s off for a few drinks with the rest of the numptie numbs.
@Welsh Sion 5.21 pm
Ha! Rabbie would approve I’m sure!
For those interested in what’s happening in my home country:
https://nation.cymru/opinion/what-does-the-latest-yougov-poll-tell-us-about-support-for-welsh-independence/
(Just you wait and see what I did to ‘Scots Wha’ Hae’. SilverDarling @ 5.28pm!)
@Clapper57
A sniff of power is a dangerous thing for a Lib Dem but even worse for us.
Swinson is my new bete noire.
Have a good evening yourself and that soap box is getting quite crowded with us all here!
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/11/05/how-do-you-say-buying-influence-in-russian/
A question for every Scottish Tory candidate, especially those in the main battleground seats ….. How much of the money you are spending here in this constituency, on your campaign, originated in Russia?
@Colin Alexander says:
5 November, 2019 at 5:18 pm
Scotland disnae get a mention.
—-
Did yoo lurn yor scot-tish wotching Alistair Darling videos?
@ SilverDarling @ 5.38pm
Lol…more power to the soapbox…
BTW just realised why Lib Dems do not want Nicola at ‘LIve’ debates…it’s cause they think she, Swinson, can take on Johnson and Corbyn….BUT…with Nicola there…. well Nicola could expose Swinson’s hypocrisy in wanting second EU ref for UK …reasons : people change their mind and were lied too….BUT according to Swinson Scots not allowed to change their minds since 2014 even though BT promises have been broken i.e. so Scots were lied to also.
More importantly Swinson does NOT want this highlighted by Nicola as Swinson is fighting election in a Scottish seat…so this would cause her discomfort and expose her irrational argument…and be further evidence that Scotland is yet again being ignored especially in UKOK Brexit mess…especially by her and her party the Lib Dems…something which neither Corbyn or Johnstone will mention in the context of Scotland being unjustly served in this Brexit mess.
Puts soapbox away….for later….Lol
Clapper57 @ 17:52:
Too damn right. Swinson would be shown up as a shallow wee pretender in comparison with the FM.
I’m beginning to think of making a representation to the Electoral Commission (=cough=, yes I know, =sigh=) that broadcasters who choose to ignore any party with significant representation in WM are in effect partisans contributing to the support of the other parties, and that support must therefore be accounted for in their election expenditure limits.
I’m not a subscriber to conspiracy theories, but it is striking just how keen all the UK broadcasters are rallying these days to limit access to full democratic debate, and to Nicola in particular. In stark contrast to precedent. For all its fine pretensions, UKOK is looking more and more like Putin’s Russia (in funding as well, it would seem) and Erdogan’s Turkey.
There’s no way in which silencing any significant representation of public opinion like this is compatible with democracy. Another massive abject failure of the 4th estate. Though it does incidentally reveal just how seriously independence and the SNP are being treated now.
Just one more evolutionary stage to go now. The one where we win.
It’s funny how Scots who voted remain and stated Scotland voted remain were told the EU REF was a UK wide vote…
BUT..when it comes to a UK wide GE….
A certain Scottish leader of a Scottish party, in one of the parts of the UK that voted remain, who because they cannot be elected UK wide are not welcome to participate in a UK wide ‘Live’ TV leaders debate …..perhaps ‘UK wide’ is the problem for Scotland…..
@ Me @ 6.28pm
“are not welcome to participate ”
Obvs should be
” IS not welcome to participate”
Duh
John Woodcock giving his valedictory (leaving) speach at house of commons,
good riddance to Brutish Labour rubbish
clown was always sneering and rude to SNP,something no right about him,
something of the nasty weasel in him,
like a Brutish Labour version of Brutish Tory Alberto Costa.
Using Wings to slag anybody, whose opinions you don’t approve of, does absolutely nothing for Scottish independence and Scottish democracy.
Sadly, it just tarnishes the image of the YES movement.
@ Robert J Sutherland @ 6.25pm
” I’m beginning to think of making a representation to the Electoral Commission (=cough=, yes I know, =sigh=) that broadcasters who choose to ignore any party with significant representation in WM are in effect partisans contributing to the support of the other parties, and that support must therefore be accounted for in their election expenditure limits”
Hi Robert , indeed Robert how true…. I loved Frankie Boyle’s tweet in October of this year which was :
” If you’re a political journalist who has regular contact with people in power, and your analysis is always aligned with prevailing orthodoxy, then you’re not really a journalist, you’re a courtier”.
Sigh also true….we can see that behaviour both here in Scotland and…UK WIDE….and will forever be unless we choose to be free of it via independence and an independent media who report the NEWS and not just their biased partisan OPINIONS…Sigh
O/T
OOH Matron, Tinto takes a Tincture
https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/after-the-revolution-and-the-two-c-words/#postid-308
Some people have noted that the Daily Record online story about female Tory candidate ( ex teacher) who called FM a ” Drooling Hag” has now been ‘pulled’ that is DELETED ….Hmm…obviously it was not Lord female Provosty clothing allowance enough for them……
I checked and it IS deleted…was there a ‘spelling’ mistake..Lol
@ Me @ 7.03pm
Ignore post…found it.
The link I tried , where others also found it deleted was obviously unreliable….do not want to be accused of fake news…but was possible…was it not…Lol
IS IT TIME TO TAKE ACTION AGAINST THE BRAINWASHING?
THE TORIES HAVE THE ABILITY AND THE INTENTION OF ACCESSING YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION STORED ONLINE SO AS TO ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE HOW YOU WILL VOTE ON DECEMBER 12TH.
We must keep up with changes in political elections campaigning, engineered through modern computer technology, the Internet and hand held devices with access to the Internet.
Ask yourself these two questions:-
Once an idea gets into your head,
1.How do you get it back out?
2.How do you control what that thought will do, deep in the recesses of your mind?
Furthermore, suppose that idea is a lie and is designed to interfere with your voting choices?
This is very real. I personally still have advertising, which was planted in my brain in the 1960’s, which I can’t get rid of. Read on : –
http://archive.ph/RmdPs
.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/05/targeted-ads-fake-news-clickbait-surveillance-capitalism-data-mining-democracy
Arwa Mahdawi:-
“Targeted ads are one of the world’s most destructive trends. Here’s why…
” They have led to a proliferation of fake news and clickbait, fuelled surveillance capitalism and normalised pervasive tracking and data-mining. Then there’s their effect on democracy …”
“As David Heinemeier Hansson, the founder of programming language Ruby on Rails, recently tweeted: “The debate over targeted political advertisement [sic] keeps dancing tantalisingly close to the eventual conclusion: NO ADVERTISEMENT SHOULD BE TARGETED ON PERSONAL INFORMATION!”
“… personalised adverts are not better for anyone. They have turned the internet into a surveillance nightmare. The fact that marketers are able to serve me ads for yoga mats the moment after I’ve booked a yoga class is not worth trading my privacy for. It’s not worth being stalked online by a yoga mat I once clicked on. It’s not worth having my every move analysed by a million activity trackers. It’s not worth having my phone battery drained by the data-guzzling ads that render many parts of the internet borderline unnavigable.”
” The fact that targeted advertising, along with the digital economy’s reliance on advertising-based business models, is one of the most destructive trends in the modern world. It has led to a proliferation of fake news and clickbait. It has fuelled surveillance capitalism and normalised pervasive tracking and data-mining. If we want to do something about the proliferation of misinformation and erosion of trust in traditional institutions, it is not enough to regulate or factcheck political adverts. We need to crack down on the use of personal information for all targeted advertising. Otherwise democracy will continue to erode, one highly optimised click at a time.”
Colin Alexander.
That’s a bit much for someone whose debut postings on here were an open attack on the then Health Minister.
You fooled nobody then.
You’re fooling nobody now.
@hackalumpoff at 6.50: thank you for the link to Tinto chiel’s excellent article. Really enjoyed it.
Coincidentally I was talking to a roofer the other day about Boswell and Johnson – the roofer currently working on one of the buildings they visited on Skye. He said he thought Johnson was “unintentionally funny”. That made me wonder if Johnson was actually on the autistic spectrum – many of his characteristics do seem to point that way.
mike cassidy
Legitimate criticisms of the then Cabinet Secretary for Health’s professional / political performance – not slagging her as a person.
Likewise, I abhor the slagging of the FM by supporters of the Empire, that has nothing to do with political criticisms but, is personal in nature.
So our politicians in Westminster count for nothing. We’re not British they’re saying we’re a crown colony of Jocks with no voice and we don’t deserve to be heard. This is blatant racism, it’s never been more evident.
Tinto Chiel I hope you dont mind I shared your post on F/B & yes pages Great Post.
“OOH Matron, Tinto takes a Tincture”
Thanks for the link @hackalumpoff says.
@TintoChiel your piece “After The Revolution and The Two C Words” doesn’t miss and hit the wall.
Thought provoking stuff, and yes I second Grouse Beater for Head of an IndyScotlands SBC with Rev Stu as Head of Broadcast News!
😉
Meanwhile the poor bastards who were incinerated in Grenfell did so because they were stupid fuckers for not getting out.
I hope Rees Mogg was not too much inconvenienced by the smell of roasting human flesh.
Wouldn’t you like to burn the bastards balls off with a blow torch. His elite Tory screams would be music to our ears.
( Of course not , I was just getting a little upset about the piece of shit’s attitude to the death of over seventy poor people )
Feel sure the SNP will take some action against their exclusion from the debates.
They have nothing to lose by doing so.
The question is really: when to strike ?
This is entirely off topic. I Have just watched “Official Secrets”, a film about Katharine Gun, an employee at GCHQ, who in 2003 had the guts and the conscience to expose some of the lies on which the UK was being drawn into the Iraq war. The film is factual. I would urge anyone who has not watched it to do so. The behaviour of the British state against Katharine was appalling.
The invasion of Iraq resulted in the death of up to 1 million Iraqis and nearly 5,000 US and UK military. The numbers maimed, injured, and those whose lives were ruined as a result, is many times more than those figures. The knock on effect of that conflict continues today with countless deaths, injury and human misery as a direct result. Saddam was a despot but the damage he inflicted was a tiny fraction of that which has followed.
The decision to go to war was taken against massive demonstrations of public dissent in the UK and an anti-war majority in the US. So why did it happen? On the other side of the Atlantic it was viewed as unfinished business from the first Gulf War, a crusade by Bush in honour of his father, but above all it was an opportunity for the money men to control the vast oil wealth of Iraq. Here in the UK Blair wanted to ingratiate himself with Bush and willingly went along with his agenda, no doubt sweetened by a promise of a share of the oil wealth and participation of British firms in the post war reconstruction of Iraq. This involved lying to the UK public and leaning on his Attorney General to declare the assault on Iraq legal when it clearly was not.
The invasion of Iraq was not sanctioned by the UN and was based on lies which have since been proven. In any decent society Blair, Straw, Brown et al would be serving life for war crimes. They are directly responsible for countless deaths and misery. I am personally opposed to the death penalty but I would have re-invoked it for these evil egotists. Robin Cook was a notable exception.
Today we are “governed” by a morally decrepit shower of Tory entitled scum who do the bidding of their dark money masters to force through a no deal Brexit so they can keep their wealth and income out of the clutches of fair taxation and who have positioned themselves to make a financial killing from the post Brexit demise of the UK. We must rid ourselves of this current crop of establishment crooks and charlatans but we cannot allow them to be replaced by those of a different hue, they all have form, particularly the red variety. There is only one option – independence.
Westminster is going to use the lib-dems to try and scupper the SNP vote, the leader is gie false.
Hackalumpoff?
How do I speak to anyone on Indyref2 site about an admin issue?
Well obviously no one who supports independence for Scotland will be surprised at the total exclusion of our DULY ELECTED FIRST MINISTER OF SCOTLAND THE COUNTRY AND NATION from a discussion on the future governance of the combined countries that make up the state that is the UK
How bloody dare these arrogant self important arseholes
What I would like to see and what would REALLY set the cat amongst the pigeons ( or RATS more like ) would be for Nicola to ANNOUNCE that due to the usual disrespect , arrogance , contempt and ignorance shown to Scotland’s peoples needs and wishes she will now treat this GE as a precursor to an independence vote , where if the SNP receive 50 or more MP’s or 50%+1 of votes they will immediately begin negotiations to dissolve the treaty of union
This contempt CANNOT be allowed to continue it MUST be confronted in the most forceful way possible
These unionist liars are going to be permitted to spread their vile bile and nonsense unfettered throughout the WHOLE UK including Scotland with NO ABILITY by our FM to challenge live their lies and corruption
Nicola please show these charlatan twats that OUR VOICE will not be ignored
@ Elmac says at 9:00pm
The invasion of Iraq by Bush and Bliar (no typo) can be directly compared with the Invasion of Poland by Nazi Germany.
The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg held following World War II stated that the waging of a war of aggression is:
“essentially an evil thing…to initiate a war of aggression…is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”
Benjamin B. Ferencz was one of the chief prosecutors for the United States at the military trials of German officials following World War II, and a former law professor.
In an interview given on August 25, 2006, Ferencz stated that not only Saddam Hussein should be tried, but also George W. Bush because the Iraq War had been begun by the U.S. without permission by the UN Security Council.
Tony Bliar (No Typo), Gordon Brown and Jack Straw should have been tried at the ICC along with Bush.
Instead they were rewarded by the Military Industrial Complex.
Trump has at least been honest by saying that the US would leave troops in Syrian to “secure the oil fields for America” as recently as last week.
Silver darling you wrote re Swinson
Why she is in the LibDems is a mystery.
No, it’s as plain as the nose on her face. If she was in the Conservative and Unionist party she would never have been more important than (T)Ruth so she opted for the Lib Dems early on and saw her chance to become an MP and then a party leader.
She is exactly the same as Boris – who waited till the last possible moment before ‘coming out’ about Brexit – saw a chance if he ‘came out’ for leave to ultimately become PM and it has come to pass.
I think the Scottish word to best describe her is ‘CHANCER’
Let’s hope the Brexit Fairy is not able to repeat the spell.
Yes Elmac, 5000 US / U.K. personnel together with 1,000, 000 Iraqis may have been killed.
Unless and until it’s a million dead in the London suburbs and shires who gives a toot .
Dead British, in huge numbers like Vietnam was for America, is the only rein on Britain’s policy of delivering lethal force to achieve economic objectives.
Indeed, WW2 was in many ways an inoculation to prevent war. The antibiotic has however now become ineffective and maybe it’s time for another inoculation.
Rule Britannia!
I believe you are correct when you say “Westminster is going to use the lib-dems to try and scupper the SNP vote” @RM says at 9:12 pm
Media black out of the SNP in conjunction with promotion of FibDems as “Largest Party of remain” and “Revoke Article 50”.
Hoping to get votes from Pro EU Scottish voters who aren’t committed Yessers.
The Establishment know The Tories and British Labour in Scotland are no-hopers.
Swineson (no typo) is their best hope.
I suspect the Greens are at it as well (but unsure if Unionist leaning or Patrick Harvie’s massive ego is the root cause).
Come on SNP, get a bod to stand in South Berwick, then let the BBC, Sky, C4, ITV, whoever, try to say you’re a Scotland-only party.
Jacob Rees-Mogg doing a cracking job at getting Governments refusal to authorise the release of the parliamentary report on Russian meddling in the EU referendum campaign and the security threat that the Kremlin represents to elections in the UK following an 18 month long investigation.
Top story is now “Ghastly Tory says ghastly thing!”
as opposed to
“How much dark money from Russian oligarchs are you using to conduct your Election Campaign Prime Minister?”
Clara Ponsati once again targeted by the fascist Spanish Nationalist State.
The creepy scumbags have again issued a warrant.
This shit needs to be seen off.
We will be next.
A view from the frontline .The consequences of years of austerity,wonky fiscal deficits,incompetent stewardship of the macro economy and a vicious disregard for the majority who live outside the 0.1% bubble.
‘Support workers were asked what percentage of families that they work with live in destitution (an income less than £70 per week for an adult, £90 for a lone parent with one child or £140 for a couple with two children, or any family that has not been able two afford two essentials over the last month, e.g. a home, food, heating, lighting, clothes, shoes or basic toiletries)… We also asked if there had been any changes in destitution among the families that support workers are working with over the last year.
• Support workers reported that 54% of families they are working with are living in destitution.
• 35% of those surveyed reported that 70% + of the families they work with are living in destitution
• Nearly three quarters (74%) of support workers have seen an increase in the last year in the number of families they work with who are in destitution’
https://www.buttleuk.org/research/what-it-is-really-like-for-children-growing-up-in-poverty-in-the-uk-in-2019
What chances for children in the UK when the UK government is deliberately implementing policies that increase child poverty , food and heating insecurity,entrenched disadvantage.One can only conclude that they really don’t care about poor people and would rather that no-one cared about poor people.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/implementing-the-sustainable-development-goals/implementing-the-sustainable-development-goals–2
‘The results? 14 million people, a fifth of the population, live in poverty. Four million of these are more than 50% below the poverty line, and 1.5 million are destitute, unable to afford basic essentials. The widely respected Institute for Fiscal Studies predicts a 7% rise in child poverty between 2015 and 2022, and various sources predict child poverty rates of as high as 40%. For almost one in every two children to be poor in twenty-first century Britain is not just a disgrace, but a social calamity and an economic disaster, all rolled into one ‘
https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=23881&LangID=E
Such hypocrisy and deceit to sign up to international goals whilst undermining them all:
‘The UK is committed to the delivery of the Sustainable Development Goals. The most effective way to do this is by ensuring that the Goals are fully embedded in planned activity of each Government department. The most effective mechanism for coordinating implementation is the departmental planning process’
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/implementing-the-sustainable-development-goals/implementing-the-sustainable-development-goals–2
Scotland, the country does have the political will and citizen support to steer a different course away from the social calamity and economic disaster that’s on offer from WM, a clean break from the status quo and a failing state.
Cracking article with some home truths
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/05/jo-swinson-fails-to-tread-line-between-ambition-and-delusion
@mike cassidy at 5:20 pm
Crikey! I’ve had a long day and was certainly not ready for *that.
* I say “that” as I’m not entirely sure what that entity was.
Was it a human wired to the moon by eating low grade American food packed with all sorts of chemicals and hormones…or was it the latest Boston Dynamics synthetic ANI (Artificial Notso Intelligent) robot?
We’re certainly living in the new space age these days, coz I’ve never seen quite so many fuckin rockets…
@Sinky
Here’s that Guardian link archived.
https://web.archive.org/save/https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/05/jo-swinson-fails-to-tread-line-between-ambition-and-delusion
The SNP are denied a platform on Sky ITV and BBC because they are not a UK wide entity. But this is easily remedied. The SNP should stand for election in Berwick and the wider county. Let the many Scots living there have their say. I expect they would wish to rejoin Scotland once again since they were removed by the conquest of the English.
https://caltonjock.com/2015/10/14/berwick-a-town-unwanted-by-england-torn-from-scotland-left-in-limbo-by-the-english-for-500-years-and-they-wonder-why-the-people-of-berwick-wish-only-that-they-be-returned-to-their-kinfolk-in-scotl/
@K1 5 November, 2019 at 9:23 pm
Check your AOL email.
@Ronnie Anderson, 8.42 p.m.: I usually only lurk here now but help yourself and it was great to see you on Sunday at Prof. Robertson’s do. Groovy threads, btw.
@Jockanese WT, 8.56 p.m: “I second Grouse Beater for Head of an IndyScotlands SBC with Rev Stu as Head of Broadcast News!”
Hee, hee! I’d pay very good money to experience that Brave New World.
If only…..
Ya bass!
Yes I agree that the Lib Dem’s will be presented in Scotland to those voters who want to remain in the eu but would rather do so as part of the U.K.
The plan is that they will steal some votes from people who seen their best route to staying in the EU as voting SNP.
The greens ? Well Mr Harvey has this ongoing defamation case going on which could cost him three quarter of a million pounds that he does not have I do hope that having it hanging over him doesn’t affect his political actions but there again how can it not ?
I heard someone say they think he might change tack and stop aiding the Scottish independence cause with Green Party votes in the Scottish Parliament in exchange for a bit of help with this legal case but I don’t even think that would be legal , would it ?
Check yours Hacka 🙂
@ Terry callachan
The Green MSP fighting a defamation case is Andy Wightman, not Patrick Harvie.
Hi Tinto Chiel – coming late to the thread I find you have published a brilliant article on The Cringe and the cultural desert we inhabit gratis the BBC and assorted drivel outlets.
Unfortunately, I am on my tablet ATM and can see no reply button on the Indyref2 site. But will check it out tomorrow.
Meantime, here’s the link for anyone who hasn’t ventured over yet.
https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/after-the-revolution-and-the-two-c-words/#postid-308
Capella , thank you for that.
Tinto Chiel , brilliant and inspirational – thank you, it made a grand start to the day!
Fresh Links here:
https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/wednesdays-links/#postid-317
@ Capella.
Thanks for the link to Tinto Chiels very fine article, one which resonates deeply with my own and many in my circles view of the state and media onslaught against Scotland. Their attempts at, what I describe as cultural genocide, have proved to be somewhat counter productive, the more anti they are, the more pro we become.
No Nicola, the GE is the crunch time for Scots to decide whether they want to continue being England’s pathetic lapdog or a mature, independent and genuinely proud people. It is effectively THE referendum.
If, as in 2015, the SNP gains the majority of seats and votes the crunch will a loud and clear statement of popular will, a statement that the SNP leadership would be foolish, this time, not to act upon.
The union conservationist Corbyn would no more sympathetic to ‘granting’ a referendum than the rest of the unionist bunch.
We must stop playing up to the system.
The psychological moment is now.
Crunch through those chains Scotland!
If the SNP had been seeking a mandate to declare the Union dissolved they would have been of “national” interest.
Are the SNP trying to show their green credentials in recycling? The 2016 Holyrood indyref2 mandate recycled for the fourth or fifth time at this GE.
Also, the recycled policy of: vote SNP to prop up an anti-Scotland Britnat Labour Govt.
I don’t blame the Empire’s media for not being interested in what the SNP have to say. It’s all the same old blah blah blah.
Radio shortbread’s (Gary?) interviews three of the party spokespersons this morning separately but it was not much of a chit chat more of an abrasive style hassling and interruption and a plague on all your houses style. 🙂
Labour candidate (missed his name) new voice to me.
SNP Drew Henry
TORY David Mundell.
Almost…almost felt sorry for Mundell having to stick up for J. R. Mogg and then be immediately hit with the Ross Thomson scandal and the lack of a Tory enquiry etc etc. Jings it was cruel.
Where was the Lib/Dem well maybe tomorrow!
The way it is looking now the snp has to win more seats in the GE to have any chance of a referendum
Any reduction is vote or seats by the snp’s Own view, will mean no indyref 2
At the moment that might seem a safe bet but the bbc has yet to ramp up the propaganda and the postal votes are being written up as I write and we have not got to the unofficial agreements between the unionists to promote a single unionist candidate.
Another wee shout for Tinto Chiel’s soo-perb reprise of many issues we’ve discussed right here in the past.
Great stuff.
😉
https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/after-the-revolution-and-the-two-c-words/
“Nicola Sturgeon’s open letter to Remain voters – back the SNP to escape Brexit
On December 12th you have a chance to escape from Brexit, and to ensure Scotland’s future is in Scotland’s hands – not Boris Johnson’s or any other UK Prime Minister’s. “
https://www.snp.org/nicola-sturgeons-open-letter-to-remain-voters-back-the-snp-to-escape-brexit/
Labour North Accounting Unit launch new fake promises to
Scotland after receiving permission from London who signed
Of the latest eye catching lies.
Labour to build 120,000 new Homes!
Isn’t that refreshing when they only built 6,
Yes SIX, over their 5 year period controlling Holyrood.
Labour, who have always controlled the Welsh Parliament
Have a chronic shortage of houses, well they haven’t benefited
From the dramatic increase in housing stock from the SNP.
Next that Dick Leonard states that he will take the homeless off the Streets of
Glasgow? That has already been happening and in the main the only rough
Sleepers are those with pets who cannot be supported in the accommodation
Provided. No harm to pets but people have to come first in these circumstances.
In summary, Labour who have done nothing for Scotland in 50 years are asking
For another 5 years of having their noses in the trough.
Tory Party in trouble for lord snooty Mogg identifying that he knows better than
The Fire and Rescue Services and the “Idiots” who were killed in Grenfell.
Next Tory defending him assured us that Mogg is indeed a superior being to
Those who died as look where he is. A weird toff tax avoider millionaire who wishes
His servants could speak Latin. Must be hard for him.
Now caught doctoring videos to make Labour Look bad isn’t Fake News or Propaganda but just a Jolly Wheeze?
Scotland, rid your country from deceitful manipulators now and forever!
@ Golfnut – it certainly is an indication of our remarkable resilience that the independence vote is over 50% in spite of of the constant daily propaganda from the British nationalist media.
However, the independence vote should be at least 90% – allowing for the fact that there will always be some people who suffer from “false consciousness” as it used to be called. So that missing 40% can be squarely laid at the door of the media.
Thankfully, we have some excellent writers who can point the way to a brighter future.
Good news for the SNP in Scotlands ‘Blue Corner’ or will the FibDems take advantage?
From The National:
“ Nigel Farage is targetting Tory MPs in the north east of Scotland as well as the Conservative incumbent in the party’s most marginal constituency in a strategy which may help the SNP regain a raft of seats. The Brexit Party yesterday confirmed Sebastian Leslie and Arthur Durance as its candidates for Gordon and Moray where the Tories ousted Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson in 2017. It also confirmed it would be standing in Conservative held Angus as well as Banff and Buchan saying it would name its candidates there later.”
I think Banff and Buchan Was previously announced as Alan Buchan
Just popped in for a final time before I disappear into the ether to thank Capella, Dorothy and Golfnut for the kind comments/plugs but since I have decided to appoint Ian Brotherhood as our Cultural Commissar post revolution some of wot I done wrote is now redundant. The Rev will then front the Diplomatic Corps, obvs.
I hang out at Nana and Hacka’s joint sometimes: three square Nana-meals, sheets changed daily and hacka’s breakfast ciabattas are gosssamer-light and crispy.
Time for your Cultural Directive No. 1, Ian. No pressure.
Adieu, mes braves!
An example of R Scotland bias in their Newsdrive election coverage so far. Five days with SNP headlining none and Nicola Sturgeon in none.
Via Nana’s links from Hackalumpoff :
https://twitter.com/MSM_Monitor/status/1191850346026545152?s=20
Can the Daily Record be coming out for Inde?
Big headline today condemning Jo Swinson for her “hypocrisy” in refusing an Inderef2 referendum.
I can’t open Indyref2’s site, Safari says it can’t open it as its not a secure site?
Re media Bias – if the SNP is thinking that the media is going to play by the GE Election rules – they are in for a shock. Very much a re-run of 2014 media bias on the go now. What have they to lose? Any complaints will be dealt with slow time, too long for any resolution before the vote.
One thing they might want to look at, is threatening a law suit for racial discrimination re the leadership debates. It’s not far off it I would suggest.
Oh and if they do eventually get onto some of the shows, they might want to investigate the key presenters and see if they are ‘self employed’ with creative tax arrangements off shore, and ask them re their bias for Brexit on that basis. Call the buggers out on it.
The likelihood is any shows they go on will be recorded and then vigorously edited to make the SNP look poor. They will need to record them independently for proof.
Hey ho.
@ Daisy Walker
Just checked, the https://indyref2.space/forum/ Works ok for me on Safari on iPad.
Try changing your browser to Chrome.
The Devolution Settlement is forcing Scotland into new finance draining PFI style deals, that England had the luxury of dropping years ago.
We must become independent to avoid these Westminster traps, or continue to suffer the consequences.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18016610.jim-cuthbert-warns-pfi-style-deals-costing-scotland/
@ Capella.
‘ the independence vote should be at 90% ‘
I fear we set the bar to high in our expectations of where the vote should be rather than celebrating where it is. 7 years of relentless anti Scottish propaganda on top of the 300 years of cultural denigration has created a steep and rock strewn hill to climb, many won’t make it. The good news is that around 50% are already at the top and will never go back.
Anyway unlike Tinto Cheils faerie like disappearance into the ether to eat gossamer cibbatas( lucky sod ) I’m off to make the beds and walk the dug.
galamcennalath says:
6 November, 2019 at 9:39 am
“Nicola Sturgeon’s open letter to Remain voters – back the SNP to escape Brexit
On December 12th you have a chance to escape from Brexit, and to ensure Scotland’s future is in Scotland’s hands – not Boris Johnson’s or any other UK Prime Minister’s. “
https://www.snp.org/nicola-sturgeons-open-letter-to-remain-voters-back-the-snp-to-escape-brexit/
I honestly can take any more of this. We’ve had the chance to escape Brexit with a Constitutional Backstop since 24th June 2016.
“If we sit back and do nothing, our future will be decided for us by Boris Johnson and by governments we didn’t vote for.”
Really??? Who the fk’s been sitting back doing nothing, “waiting to see the details”, when since 2016 while we have a democratic sovereign mandate to grant ourselves a Brexit Backstop that would keep Scotland in Europe and break the back of the U.K. Union?
I’m done. I’m heart sick of this wet and colourless anodyne shite. It’s stale, and stifles the very air I breathe. How did we evolve from a vital grassroots army on the March back in 2014\15 to somehow become so industrially tepid and dismally unambitious?
I’m reduced to just holding my tongue and hoping for the best.. I just cannot engage with this abdication of Constitutional integrity anymore. My head will explode.
You want my vote, do something to fucking earn it. You could start by respecting our sovereign constitution. Meanwhile I’m moving on to focus on other things. I am spent.
@ Golfnut – I do agree that we have to take into account the effect of media bias on public opinion. Also, outright manipulation through targeted ads, false news and illegal election deviousness.
Welsh Sion posted upthread some interesting poll results from Wales. They are even more oppressed media wise than we are. But the difference in response according to the question asked is interesting. If asked to rank their opinion on a scale of 1 – 10, most people are at least curious about independence and willing to consider it. Very few dismiss it entirely.
https://nation.cymru/opinion/what-does-the-latest-yougov-poll-tell-us-about-support-for-welsh-independence/
Breeks,
You obviously don’t consider a good result for the SNP in next month’s election to be of any importance.
I don’t understand that, but perhaps you should step back for now as the current situation is obviously not doing your blood pressure any good.
In the meantime I have just printed out the letter you speak of to put on the wall of our local SNP election hub tomorrow for drop-ins to read. If it gets us an extra vote or two then it will have been well worth the effort.
There is no hiding the party’s support for independence in the letter. There is no suggestion that the SNP know any way to stop Brexit apart from independence. It is simply an appeal for Scotland to be allowed to decide its own future. Seems honest enough to me.
I honestly don’t know what all you hyped-up angry constitution-merchants want.There may be a ‘constitutionl/legal’ path to independence, but it is far from clear. IN the meantime, we can do something IN THE NEXT 5 WEEKS by sending as many MPs to Westminster as possible.
If you think throwing the Westminster towel in and doing a Sinn Fein is the right thing at this time then fine, but I profoundly disagree with you, and I think most of the posters on here agree that whatever reservations we may have, a good SNP performance on December 12th is a prerequisite for any further credible action.
We’ve all felt your frustration at some point or another over the last four years, but if you had been at George Square last week you would not be doubting the party’s sincerity and determination to make independence happen ASAP.
Alun Cairns Tory in Wales resigns.
Looking at the BBC website “live” I see they are still calling the SNP the Scottish NATIONALIST Party. They do know the correct name of the party. This must be a directive from management.
https://tinyurl.com/yxot3c6b
OFCOM is the regulator. Electoral Commission too.
Tories are on a roll with Lord Snooty showing his true feelings about
The inferior masses and Minister Bridgend demanding Snooty is so
Brilliant he must be right about the people of Grenfell.
Next they produce a fake news video of Labour’s Keir Stalmer.
One Tory MP has the decency to apologise for it but the Tory
Cabinet sticking to just a wee joke, not the usual Tory propaganda.
Now their Tory Welsh Secretary has had to resign for lying about his
Knowledge of a colleagues dealings in a rape case.
Have they forgot the Bojo PM is a proven serial liar and has been sacked repeatedly
For being one. Bojo headed up the£350 million per week for the NHS Brexit farce.
No need for Tories to resign as lying and cheating is
How they operate and how they got to where they are.
Not to worry they will all be forgiven and voted into power again by the
White Supremest voters of England.
The Party tells you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears !
If this was directed at someone because of the colour of their skin it would shock us and there would be ructions – and rightly so. When threats of violence are directed at women it seems it is not taken so seriously – even when it is the first minister. It always seems to be British nationalists though who are the misogynists.
@Daisy Walker
If you are using Windows then you need to know that Apple no longer offers Safari updates for Windows. Safari 5.1.7 for Windows was the last version made for Windows, and it is now outdated.
The site works fine on Safari for Mac/iPad
Ian Brotherhood says: at 9:24 am
“Another wee shout for Tinto Chiel’s soo-perb reprise of many issues we’ve discussed right here in the past.
Great stuff.”
https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/after-the-revolution-and-the-two-c-words/
Aye, I went back for a second look as I had time to mull over thoughts during the day after my initial read.
I’ve long been highly critical of the overall content the BBC puts out and particularly the lacklustre unimaginative crap we get here in the Scottish “region”.
There is no spark or edginess to so much of it.
Even the presenters appear to be a constant feature who hold their positions for so long they are burnt into the pixels on our viewing screens, which in my view highlights the lack of diversity and unwillingness of the organisation to change.
It is just ignoreable, stale, bland, magnolia humdrum background noise to me.
So after the revolution (which most likely won’t be televised…) there should be an opportunity to address our media situation.
Scots should
hopedemand that when we are afforded that choice the result isn’t just a switch from one dominant controlling group with their agenda, changing to another which again stifles the output, because if that happens then the revolution will have been in name only.I can imagine that by whatever means the organisational and management structures of our future broadcasting entity comes to be, it will no doubt be through protracted and complex bureaucratic processes.
My concerns would be that with so much in life, it is the big egos and narcissists that rise to prominence and get to determine the path and destination because reasonable more moderate individuals tend not to force their will and views on others.
To address that issue I believe it will be imperative that a balance of control is delegated to diverse stakeholder groups to prevent the manifestation of a narrow outlook and agenda.
What I do hope for is that however the structure and management of our broadcasting organisation(s) ultimately end up, the broadcast content has absolutely got to embrace the massive array of positive diverse aspects that Scotland has on offer which have been sidelined and ignored for so long.
Our younger bairns should be able to watch a wide range of educational and stimulating programmes that begin to inspire them in their formative years which will help them develop ideas relating to vocations they may feel an affinity for.
I can’t even begin to start listing the potential subject matter programmes and series could be based on because it would fill the post to a ridiculous length.
A thought that comes to mind after writing the above is that in this internet age of ever-improving tech and streaming capability… It may be too late for an organisation to replace (in technical broadcasting terms) what the BBC have now, as it could be that the door has already been opened, the horses have bolted, and they are now liberated to browse when, where, and what they want, never to be rounded up again to be fed a restricted diet by any keeper.
Jockanese Wind Talker says:
5 November, 2019 at 10:17 pm
Jacob Rees-Mogg doing a cracking job at getting Governments refusal to authorise the release of the parliamentary report on Russian meddling in the EU referendum campaign and the security threat that the Kremlin represents to elections in the UK following an 18 month long investigation.
Top story is now “Ghastly Tory says ghastly thing!”
as opposed to
“How much dark money from Russian oligarchs are you using to conduct your Election Campaign Prime Minister?”
LOL. Just LOL.
There’s some interesting views on here but honestly, when you get to the stage that ‘its the Russians’ you need a hobby. At least turn off the TV.
‘The Russians’ is now a solid meme throughout the internet to ridicule the kind of people who cant handle the idea that they live in a country with people who have a right to a different opinion – and have politicians repesent that opinion.
Werent the Russians also involved in supporting Scottish independence for the last indy ref?
For perspective:
Ghislane Maxwell is the daughter of Robert Maxwell who had…close *cough* relationship with Israeli mossad. Ghislane was the main person involved in finding young girls for Epsteins little harem. Senior politicians and public figures were invited to partake in these illegal delights for at least 2 decades (including Bill Clinton, with 27 visits to ‘Love Island’ on record, 5 of which he had to sign authorization to leave his Secret Service detail behind). Yet we hear virtually nothing of it.
Now im not saying that Mossad would operate an illegal sex operation to blackmail influential people and that Israel continually tries to influence western politics to its advantage because it was probably the Russians after all. The bastards blocked my toilet a few days back and sabotaged my 10 year old washing machine last month. Is there nothing they wont meddle in?
These “someone should” type of calls have a name: stochastic terrorism. The originator can claim they were only joking, but some “lone wolf” nutter takes it as a real suggestion and acts “in isolation.” Trump is famous for it. Unionists aren’t because Scottish media, but the tactic is identical.