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Wings Over Scotland

A letter to the Jo Cox Foundation

Posted on November 01, 2019 by

Dear Catherine,

You probably haven’t heard of me. I’m a notoriously “vile” political blogger who’s said a few pretty mean things on social media about politicians in the last eight years. But perhaps that’s partly because I’m a grumpy old white guy who hasn’t had the benefit of your commendable programme aimed at “building the fairer, kinder & more tolerant world the late Jo Cox MP believed in”.

I note also your pinned tweet expressing concern at women being driven out of public life, something which has been in the news very recently and which I presume includes people like Joanna Cherry MP, who has received death threats and been required to have police protection to carry out her constituency surgeries.

So I hope you’ll understand my alarm over what happened today.

Frances Hoole is the Scottish Labour candidate for the seat of Edinburgh South West in the upcoming UK parliamentary general election. She is a – would the proper word be “graduate”? – of your Jo Cox Women In Leadership Programme, which apparently seeks to “support women with the training and mentoring needed to make their voices heard and become future leaders”.

Yet today she tweeted a picture – accompanied by a “crying with laughter” emoji – depicting herself holding a bottle of Cillit bleach pointed at the head of Joanna Cherry, alongside a play on the product’s advertising slogan: “BANG! And the terf is gone”.

“TERF”, as I’m sure you’re aware, is an abusive term used to pejoratively describe and attack feminist women who are “gender-critical” and defend women’s rights to single-sex spaces free of male-bodied people, regardless of how those people might identify themselves. Whether you agree with that point of view or not, I feel certain – or at least hopeful – that you would regard it as a valid political opinion which people should be able to express freely without threats or abuse from electoral opponents.

I would also hope, given the tragic death by gunshot of the woman who gives your foundation its name, that you would be as appalled as I am at the imagery of pointing an object with a trigger at a woman’s head and making a sneering joke of the words “BANG! And [that woman] is gone”.

Ms Hoole has subsequently, with considerable ill grace, removed the offending tweet, grudgingly faux-apologised (claiming not to have understood that spraying bleach at someone and saying “BANG! and they’re gone” could have been construed as any sort of condoning or encouragement of violence) and promptly attempted to portray herself as the victim in the situation, demanding that Joanna Cherry act to save Ms Hoole from the public’s justifiably angry reaction to her tweets, all while reiterating Ms Hoole’s attack on gender-critical women in general and Joanna Cherry in particular.

I would be most grateful for your comments on this matter, to which I would hope you would not simply turn a deaf ear, a blind eye and a mute voice. Do you consider this the sort of politician you set out to shape? Are you happy for such a person, carrying your name and implied endorsement, to be elected to Parliament in a few weeks, replacing the woman she so shamefully abused today?

If not, I would – in the gentlest manner of which I am capable – seek to advise you that if this is the sort of candidate your Women In Leadership Programme is unleashing on the electorate in pursuit of a fairer and kinder world, it might be in need of at least a modest degree of reflection and revision.

Yours sincerely,
Rev. Stuart Campbell.

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409 to “A letter to the Jo Cox Foundation”

  1. winifred mccartney says:

    Absolutely with you on this one – people like Frances Hoole are seeking to destroy everything we have learned about women and men and their different kinds of sexuality and put us all in danger and some parties seem to be promoting them.

  2. Terry says:

    Spot on. Thanks for this.

  3. Helena Brown says:

    That was a deeply disturbing tweet. It is hard to reach into someone’s mind who posts this.
    I hope that the people who run the Jo Cox Foundation take your remarks to heart. Too many stupid, silly people in Politics today. It almost seems like they want into show. Business but are not pretty enough.

  4. Tommy Allan says:

    Well said Rev.

  5. Republicofscotland says:

    Very well said Rev, if Hoole isn’t at least severely reprimanded, then we can safely assume the Jo Cox Foundation isn’t all its cracked up to be.

    However don’t hold your breath on waiting for a reply I say.

  6. Neil Mackenzie says:



  7. Portjim says:

    Frances Carmen Hooles tweets drip crocodile tears and hypocrisy.
    She should be a libDem.

  8. Dr Jim says:

    I don’t pretend to comprehend the whole gender argument but this has nothing to do with it

    And one thing I know for sure, no matter what anybody might believe, pointing things at people’s heads and shouting *bang* should disqualify anybody from being a political representative of anybody

    There are enough zoomers out there in the world without the political classes encouraging more of them to think doing stuff like this is acceptable

    Sometimes folk can get angry or annoyed and might have a shout about something but to go on to social media and display this stuff takes time and thought, it’s not a spur of the moment outburst, it’s deliberate and there should be no apology accepted for it, these people who practice this sort of thing should be out immediately no ifs no buts just gone

  9. Roger says:

    This will set many cats amongst many pigeons…

  10. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Oh, FFS. This kind of misbehaviour is just so wrong on so many levels.

    But carries the seed of its own destruction with the voters, I suggest. Trust the remaining woke geniuses of NorthBritLab to shoot themselves in the foot first!

    Which will hopefully prevent the SNP from making the same mistake.

    ‘Nuff said.

  11. Conan the Librarian says:

    Why is it Joanna Cherry’s “turn”? She’s completely innocent in this affair.

  12. desimond says:

    Shes from Shepton Mallet and she is standing in Edinburgh

    Youre from Bathgate and youre defending the nation from Bath

    Our Worlds all upside down!

  13. Alabaman says:

    That’s more like the Stew I know,
    Exposure of lies, falsehoods, and miss representing facts, yes Stew, that’s “old you”.

  14. shiregirl says:


    She seems a nice sort.

  15. ronnie anderson says:




  16. Jock Tamson says:

    Brilliant. Get in there. How I admire your bottle Sir. Saying it as it should be said unlike the speak your weight machine politicians so scared to say what they really feel. Obviously a box ticking exercise done at Edinburgh South CLP.

  17. Cath says:

    If I’m honest, I’m glad, in a way, that this woman’s appeared in Cherry’s constituency. If she can attract those in the SNP there who also so desperately want to see Joanna removed, or much worse, she’ll be a positive boon to the SNP.

  18. Macbeda says:

    Needs a wee visit from Police Scotland to put her in the picture that threatening behaviour is not on.

  19. Red Squirrel says:

    What he said.
    Every word.

  20. Andrew Davidson says:

    Maybe Labour will say they’ll send her on whatever their make believe re-education program for their racists and bigots was that also didn’t happen. I doubt it though.

  21. Ian McLean says:

    She apparently didn’t perceive the term TERF as abusive or pejorative. Hmm.

  22. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Ronnie A –

    Thanks for the heads-up about Dows, hope everyone sees it.

    We should get the staff at Dows one of those big fuck-off page-a-day diaries, a permanent marker tied to it with hairy string.

  23. thingy says:

    What sort of churlish bore would girn about being sprayed in the face with bleach? Blinding and scarring? Character building, I’d say.

  24. Ian Foulds says:

    Well said Sir and quite diplomatically. ?

  25. Muscleguy says:

    I agree with Macbeda, this should have been referred to the polis. Have the Polis in Scotland behaved like those in England to tell women and their supporters that they have been suspected of a crime by voicing a reality based opinion?

    I am a former Biomedical scientist and I defy anyone to tell me a self declaration can change your sex. Molecular geneticists* the world over would love the ability to change a chromosome in every nucleated cell in the body in a huge manner with just some words.

    Also if it is so possible why is it that gender realignment surgery is so very much more possible for male to female than female to male? Wearing my Developmental Biologist and Anatomist hats% I also understand why this is.

    *I have had cause to describe myself in those terms so I understand better than most people the magnitude of change which would have to take place.

    %My ability to wear lots of different scientific hats is part of why I’m a former scientist. To make matters worse my degrees are in Physiology. I wish the court to take cognisance of my passing knowledge of Cell Biology as well. I am no sort of Immunologist though I have asssisted in the raising of antibodies in mice.

  26. Street Andrew says:

    Good letter.

    Thank you Stuart.

  27. ronnie anderson says:

    Ian Brotherhood lol , my daughter managed to cancel the sausage rolls order or it would have cost me , i hope the ladies see the post & dont buy things to make up sandwiches .

    Pity Wings dont do calendars lol.

  28. ronnie anderson says:

    Maybe some one will remind the electorate as to that pretentious witch .

    Good letter Rev hope you get a response .

  29. dadsarmy says:

    I think this candidate will lose Labour voters.

    And that’s all I have to say about THAT.

  30. Bob Costello says:

    Absolutely spot on with this and I for one will be interested in reading the reply( if you get one)

  31. manandboy says:

    Well done, Stu. An excellent piece of work.

    Can’t imagine Independence without you.

  32. HandandShrimp says:

    What is a VAW when it is home.

    This whole area is so niche you need to learn another language just to figure out who is insulting who.

  33. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “That’s more like the Stew I know,
    Exposure of lies, falsehoods, and miss representing facts, yes Stew, that’s “old you”.”

    I’ve never stopped doing that. It’s just that sometimes you don’t like the targets.

    And it’s “Stu”, ffs. The spelling’s right there on the byline.

  34. Morgatron says:

    Excellent Stu. What a nasty wee shit she is.

  35. Brian says:

    Well done Stuart.

  36. Jock Tamson says:

    Are you watching Shirley Anne. This is what happens when the Labour party abandons the working class and immerses itself in infantile identity politics. Its now the Student Union of politics. In England more voters from socio- economic classes C, D and E are voting Tory rather than Labour for the first time in history! Thankfully there are many of us who will fight to ensure the SNP does not end up going down a similar plug hole. Some cans of worms are best left shut.

  37. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Muscleguy @ 16:48,

    Please, we have been through this kind of circular technical discussion ad nauseam. The fundamental point of the article is really something else – how to behave during an election.

  38. Effijy says:

    Rev, Labour have gone from Red Rosette on a Donkey
    Seeking office to a remote raving lunatic trying to make
    Her pathetic self seem more intelligent than a seasoned
    Professional politician who has had a major and positive
    Impact on parliament and the constituency in which she serves.

    There is no talent in the Labour Party anywhere.
    We already have a pitiful English man heading up the Scottish/ North
    accounting unit for them, their Shadow Scottish Secretary was a Geordie
    Living in the North East of England and now this English Bimbo is trying
    Her hand at gathering votes from the gullible.

    If Labour has any genuine socialist calling and care for Scotland they would
    Pack their bags and let the SNP tackle Tories of the one colour.

  39. euan0709 says:

    Once again Rev…You are back at what you do best.
    Ripping the X out of Egotistical, Pompous wannabee Politicians.
    I think we should ask the Lady concerned about the Deal between Richard Leonard, the GMB Union, the Labour Party and the non-payment of money owed to the female members of Staff by the Labour Run Glasgow City Council . Did Leonard and the GMB back pedal so as not to embarrass the Labour Party and ensure he got the Job as Labour Leader ?in

  40. kapelmeister says:

    Hooleier Than Thou gets her comeuppence from Stu!

  41. David says:

    Hello HandandShrimp, I think VAW stands for “Violence against women”.

  42. Sharny Dubs says:

    Good grief! What is wrong with folk.

    Well said Stu, right on the money.

  43. Ken Clark says:

    With you all the way on this one, Stu.

    The word, “bang” disturbed me greatly. A spray cleaner doesn’t go bang, we all know what does.

  44. mike cassidy says:

    You would think a female labour candidate would know better.

    Two links for impact.

    And the source for the second tweet.

  45. wull says:

    Well said. The ethical responsibility and maturity level of some parliamentary candidates is simply appalling. These thoroughly awful people, who lack common decency, need to be called out. The site-owner’s precise and well formulated letter has done just that.

    The fact that people of this calibre can even think of getting in to mainline politics, and the further fact that they have even been selected to do so, shows how far down the slippery slope the UK has already gone. Sad to say, it’s the kind of slope that ends up in a swamp of neo-Fascism, 21st Century style.

    We must never allow such people to turn parliaments into cess-pits, or Scotland (or any other country) into a midden.

  46. Bob Mack says:

    Methinks she should have had a horseshoe shaped barrel on that particular weapon because “the bullet” is coming right back at her in more ways than one,metaphorically speaking.

    Quite right Stu.

  47. robertknight says:

    Eloquently put, but I suspect that a street in Bath may be invaded by tumbleweed, driven by an ill wind, before you get the sort of response/outcome which most right minded folk would consider appropriate. I hope I’m wrong, I really do…

  48. twathater says:

    As others have said above WELL DONE STUART , It just shows how far down the rabbit hole liebour has gone , it’s bad enough we have to listen to their rantings in Holyrood without having to police outbursts from their candidates.
    Quite honestly I would like to see Joanna Cherry bring this to the attention of police Scotland and Rickety Leotard

  49. Dan says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland at 5:27 pm

    That’s a little harsh imo.
    We elect people and parties to represent us. Their general behaviour is one aspect, but what they actually believe as individuals and group entities is also entirely relevant if we are going to trust them to perform in a manner grounded in reality.
    EG: Green Party are supposedly concerned with environmental matters which they are presumably aware of because of all the scientific research that has been carried out over the years. That makes sense.
    Yet the same party (amongst another…) appears to ignore the scientific reality of human biology with the pushing of Self ID that individuals can choose to change their actual sex.
    If such incredible marvels as the latter are really possible through the power of simple thought, then why can’t we just ID the environment as being completely fine with nothing requiring to be done. Just continue burning fossil fuels and throwing all our shit across the land or into the sea. All is well, nowt to worry about there.

    As a practically minded engineery type of mammal, it is a real struggle for me to deal with some of the utter bullshit floating around the political ether.
    Just look at some of the incredible things humans are capable of in fields such as engineering and medicine, with examples such as space flight and data telemetry, to cancer treatments and genetic studies.
    Then look back to the top of this article, and think: “Really! is that the fucking brightest and best we can muster to represent us”, and of course there’s also the previous thread highlighting the monumental lack of tactical political thought on how elections work and how to achieve your objectives.

    FML It’s Friday evening and I’ve nowt in to swally…

  50. Robert Louis says:

    Well said. Very, very well said. This is an utter disgrace, but worst of all is the culprits pretence at ‘not realising’. What a disgrace, for a Labour candidate.

    For a Labour woman to come out with aggressive hate-filled tripe like this, against another woman, Joanna Cherry, who now has police protection purely because she has spoken up for women’s rights, is just unreal. But like all the trans loonies, the culprit bleats and bleats of how awful it is for HER.

    The Labour party need to act, and de-select this candidate. Today, preferably.

  51. mike cassidy says:

    Further to my 5.44

    I had also meant to say I had not known Joanne Cherry had the grim honour of being second only to Diane Abbott in the abuse stakes.

  52. ClanDonald says:

    Yet another self-righteous youth who appears to think that supporting a particular position on trans rights gives them an untouchable moral purity that allows them to spitefully attack, insult and condemn with impunity any other minority group that disagrees with them.

  53. Capella says:

    Excellent letter Stu. If the Jo Cox Foundation is awake they will take prompt action. The Labour Party too should be ashamed to field such a candidate. Targetting Joanna Cherry in this way tarnishes both the Labour Party and the Woke Brigade whose sense of entitlement is overweening. it also tarnishes he GMB. she claims to be their Rep and Equality Officer. Shameful.

  54. Liz g says:

    Even if and it’s a bloody big IF,this clown didn’t make the firearms connection!
    ( And she’s no fit for public office if she “just didn’t see it ” )
    The phrase in that advert is “Bang and the Dirt is gone”.
    The connection between this TERF slogan for women and dirt is still atrocious dehumanizing behaviour.


  55. Robert Louis says:

    Oh, and here’s the thing that really, really galls me, as somebody weho lived through the fight for gay rights, is that Joanna is a lesbian. These utter f**kwits who bang on about trans equality, are cheering on the abuse of Joanna, solely because she stands for the rights of ALL actual women. WTF planet are they on???????????? Cheering on abuse of a woman??????????

    I personally am overjoyed that one of the original founders of Stonewall has now founded the LGB alliance, to fight for gay, lesbian and bisexual rights (stonewall no longer does). This vile HATE against lesbians and gay men who don’t buy into all the unfounded, homophobic gender theory nonsense (and its willful distortion of the history of the campaign for gay rights) makes me really, really angry.

    Labour need to de-select this candidate ASAP.

  56. Helen Yates says:

    Excellent article, as usual spot on.

  57. Gary says:

    Well, I’m not sure that the Jo Cox Foundation can do much about this. Don’t think she could be ‘recalled’ to the Foundation for more training and nor do I think SLAB would be interested.

    If the press weren’t just unionist lapdogs (aside from The National of course) then they MIGHT have run this.

    But is is better to have come out with this NOW rather than when it is too late for Labour to replace her as a candidate? They could decide to limit the damage and have her ‘withdraw her candidacy’ to ensure another is selected thus avoiding a potential shitstorm. I think the closing date is two weeks away? Maybe Labour will think they’ve gotten away with it because no paper will print it, except maybe The National, of course.

    But the STAGGERING stupidity of someone who is supposed to be the candidate of a party with a long and successful history (until recently) in Scotand is dumbfounding!

  58. Robert Roddick says:

    Care and support worker. Oh the irony !

  59. Welsh Sion says:

    Robert Roddick @ 7:05pm.

    This is what she had to say for herself prior to being selected as candidate:

    “I have always felt a natural affinity with the Labour values of fairness and equality.

    I work in education and care, so I spend a great deal of my time with the most vulnerable people in society, who are towards the beginning and the end of their journeys.
    We do our best but it’s not enough to make up for the systemic difference that’s needed.

    I feel when politicians are talking about the struggles of the younger generation with unaffordable, unremarkable housing, low wages and never ending debt that it’s me they are talking about.

    So why not me who should talk about it? More importantly, why not me who changes it?”


  60. Dramfineday says:

    Excellent piece Stuart.

  61. starlaw says:

    Labour should replace her immediately failure to do so will be an act of compliance with her vile behaviour.

  62. Graeme McAllan says:

    Robert, I’ll bet she only cares about and supports herself 🙁

  63. Liz g says:

    Well now the door is open for the media to question Nicola and the SNP on the GRA in Holyrood during this election.
    Under the guise of concern for female politicians.
    Time will tell if they’re playing that card this time around,probably Question time on Thursday?
    Although if they did weaponise the Gender thing now,it could point to the British not believing that they “could” save it for Holyrood 2021.
    That they believe that a 2020 referendum is likely?


  64. Geoff Bush says:

    Does anyone else think politics has been hi-jacked ?

  65. Doreen Milne says:

    Excellent letter, Stuart, agree with every word.

  66. ALANM says:

    I see Labour Councillor Louise McPhater has just been given a free party political broadcast by Channel 4 News ahead of the general election where she’s standing as the Labour candidate for Central Ayrshire. Lots of criticism of the Scottish Government (as you’d expect) with no right of reply offered (as you’d also expect).

    Expect much more of this during the next six weeks.

  67. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Truly shocked to see Jack Deeth popping up in tweets supporting this roaster.

    He used to be a regular here, no? WTF?


  68. Peter says:

    Excellent – just excellent 🙂

  69. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Dan @ 18:18,

    Och, Dan, I don’t have any issue with the science of it, it’s plain enough to see and hardly worth more discussion. Facts are facts. I’m just fed up with the heavy-duty politicisation of it all. Everyone has a right to be treated with respect, but some zealots with nothing better to do are busy building empires of sand on issues of ever-decreasing practical utility to almost everyone, and doing so with no respect whatever themselves, as the present example well illustrates.

    Whereas there are obvious pressing issues of deep importance to us all that desperately need to be resolved, and soon if we are to get anywhere. Ordinary people won’t forgive us if we instead let ourselves get distracted by potentially-dangerous irrelevancies such as out-of-control authoritarian progressivism. Like many others, my patience with such diversions is running out. Life is short and too important to waste on side-issues like this.

  70. cynicalHighlander says:

    @Geoff Bush says:
    1 November, 2019 at 7:48 pm

    Does anyone else think politics has been hi-jacked ?

    Very much so by some extremely rich individuals funding the Trans movement up to the hilt for there own sexual desires by invading female safe houses supported by the political establishment and the law.

  71. Alabaman says:

    Stu, @ 5:20 p.m.
    Sorry man, I wondered why I had a sore arse, must have been your boot.
    I still welcome your return to the attack Stu.
    Amazing what a boot up the backside does for ones memory!.

  72. Adrian Kent says:

    The Jo Cox Foundation have done nothing at all for a kinder world in the past with their support for the Syrian White Helmets the group who have been responsible for providing most of the ‘evidence’ of chemical weapons use by the Syrian Government in the ongoing civil war. The trouble for the Jo Cox Foundation is that there is now pretty much irrefutable evidence that at least one of these alleged attacks – in Douma in 2018 – was staged. I don’t think they’ll give much of a toss about the odd tweet if they can overlook murdering kids.

  73. Charles says:

    Wait, what…no SNP bad story today?

  74. Graeme says:

    cynicalHighlander says:
    1 November, 2019 at 8:22 pm

    Very much so by some extremely rich individuals funding the Trans movement up to the hilt for there own sexual desires by invading female safe houses supported by the political establishment and the law.


    Couldn’t agree more I find it utterly bizarre, educated intelligent people can endorse this delusional and frankly dangerous concept of self ID and it’s a mystery to me why this even up for debate

  75. Heart of Galloway says:

    Re “hijacking” of politics, a “Scottish” Conservative ad has popped up on a helluva lot of friends’ FB pages.

    It features a video clip of Corby apparently indicating a willingness to contemplate another independence referendum at some stage.

    Such treasonable behaviour is not to be tolerated of course.

    And naturally, Boris’ meal worms are the only party who can stop Nicola Sturgeon. Again.

    To cap it all, underneath is a rabid rant at the SNP, the would be breakers of the “precious union”. And hunners of btl comments, the authors of which doubtless will be sifted and identified as targets for future suitably tailored UKOK shite.

    They just don’t know it yet.

    I don’t know how widely distributed this stuff is. But one thing’s for certain – it appears to be concerted. Ergo, big dirty sponduliks behind it.

    It will not be the last.

  76. IZZIE says:

    Frances Carmel Hoole says on twitter that she has taken down her tweet and apologises for not realising which begs the question should a person who is so obtuse and unaware of the significance of pointing bleach at an opponent be considered fit to be a representative.

  77. Defo says:

    The stupidity of that tweet alone should be enough to make any sane voter question her suitability for the job, & her motivation.
    Yet another narcissist clamouring for attention.

  78. Dan says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland at 8:22 pm

    Fair enough, just felt the need to point out how I see it when scientific evidence is sidelined or ignored in the formation processes of folks’ beliefs or political party policies.

    I’m witnessing some pretty arrogant and headstrong attitudes displayed by some of these younger woke folk towards some extremely knowledgeable and high functioning individuals who only got to become what they are by considerable study and years of interactions in dealing with people.
    I could frame it as a cocky 1st year apprentice trying to tell their journeyman his trade even though the apprentice has barely a basic grasp of the theory or practical skill required to do the job.

    Anyway, nae tipple for me tonight so it’s back to sorting through 1300 legacy emails as my provider is pish and shutting down access in next month or so.
    It’s funny what you find in the old in and outboxes. I’ve even found email comms to a potential new MP candidate who displayed abilities that mean I wouldn’t want to leave them in charge of a bucket of water as they’d probably manage to set it on fire, never mind represent an entire constituency! (And no, it’s not Muriel Gray) lol

  79. cynicalHighlander says:


    I wouldn’t want to leave them in charge of a bucket of water as they’d probably manage to set it on fire, never mind represent an entire constituency! (And no, it’s not Muriel Gray)

    That’s a keeper

  80. Phydaux says:

    Superb letter Stuart and thank you for being rightly alarmed by Miss Hoole’s malicious and hateful mindset, targeted towards Joanna Cherry, causing fear and alarm to a highly respected politician. Miss Hoole has been exposed as a manipulative, narcissistic and emotionally destructive asshole. I do hope that the Jo Cox Foundation would not wish to be tainted by association by this woman’s toxic brand of femininity.

    Miss Hoole’s attitude suggests she will keep on digging that hole. That ghastly picture and appalling choice of words will be neither forgotten nor forgiven.Is it a coincidence that she also looks stupid and is that a pre-requisite?

    She should be deselected right now. Shame on you and Labour.

  81. Swami Backverandah says:

    And another Labour candidate shoots themself in the foot.

    Well done!

  82. galamcennalath says:

    Imagine if an SNP candidate that tried the same ill-conceived stunt with a BritNat? Jeez it would be headline news on all channels and front page on every rag. And gone on for weeks.

    One of the many Indy dividends … Scotland gets a free media which does the job the media is supposed to do!

  83. Swami Backverandah says:

    I’ve been slaving in a ditch, so you wouldn’t have to and look what was unearthed underneath the muck there:
    Liddle …
    “He said: ”My own choice of election date would be a day when universities are closed and Muslims are forbidden to do anything on pain of hell, or something.

    ‘There must be at least one day like that in the Muslim calendar, surely? That would deliver at least 40 seats to the Tories, I reckon.’

    O, that the ditch had kept its promise and the undead weren’t able to rise from it.


  84. Liz g says:

    Breeks, looks like your dream may be about to be realised !
    I’m seeing on Facebook that – Forward As One – are intending to run a crowd funded Court Case if a section 30 is refused.
    This (they say) will be independent of and in addition to any Government V Government Court action.
    And apparently a case brought by the people to establish the right of self determination!

  85. Confused says:

    poor taste for a tweet, given the london fashion for all these acid attacks

    (I always thought cillit bang was a lesbian orgy.)

    I wish john thompson (fast show, niiice, jazz club, millions of things) would reprise his character bernard righton for the current woke idiocy

    – this is from 1995

  86. manandboy says:

    Politicians of old were usually civic minded and believed in service of the Public.

    Nowadays however, we are ‘represented’ by the ‘career’ politician, for whom ‘service of the Public’ is an antiquated idea.

    Politicians used to represent their constituents. Now, the perception is that they represent the highest bidder, usually big business, offering lucrative inducements. The Brown Envelope society.

    The electorate has still, it seems, to catch on. So, we have a democratic ‘lag’. The result is that the voter treats a lie as the truth, because the voter doesn’t realise how much politicians have changed.

  87. Liam says:

    Really shit piece of Photoshoppery too.

  88. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Patrick Harvie is on the bill for tomorrow’s rally, speaking in advance of NS?


  89. Ghillie says:

    Well said Stuart.

  90. Fireproofjim says:

    Weather in Glasgow looks like being good for tomorrow.
    Hope there are plenty of loudspeakers. The crowd will be BIG.

  91. Capella says:

    @ Ian Brothrehood – Thx for the speakers list. Hope it will be livestreamed. There are some very jealous unionists bothering to comment btl. Shame.

  92. Bobp says:

    Well on the 13th of dec we’ll know if its scotland the brave or scotland the slave. I know what my moneys on.

  93. ronnie anderson says:

    Wingers meeting Point for George Square—-UNDER THE HORSES ARSE & for those that dont know what that means Under the rear end of the Victoria statue which would be the right hand side when facing the stage . there are no stalls allowed on the square.

  94. manandboy says:

    The timetable for Scotland’s independence is, frankly, not that important, given that we are opposed by an Imperial and Colonialist Westminster, and outnumbered by ten to one.

    What counts is Scotland’s commitment to Independence.

    Ultimately, the calendar is irrelevant.

    How could it be otherwise, after three hundred and twelve years of English Rule.

  95. Mist001 says:

    Although he was quite right to bring the matter to their attention, I suspect that the Rev, like I would myself, would not be hopeful of receiving any kind of reply from the Jo Cox Foundation.

    This is why everybody, no matter how they feel, have to vote SNP and absolutely disassociate ourselves from these people because this meme/tweet/isn’t just a one off, this just happens to be one that was noticed.

  96. Flower of Scotland says:

    Needed to be said. Well done Rev!

  97. dadsarmy says:

    @Ian Brotherhood
    + Richard Walker starting off and Callum Baird ending it all – with apparently a couple of “tricks up our sleeve” from the National.

  98. Dr Jim says:

    According to reports from all round people are coming from everywhere to Glasgow tomorrow so it’s set to be absolutely heaving which makes me wonder what Police Scotland are going to do with Manky Shirt McConnachie and his little rascals that he’s been firing up all week, they surely can’t have him and his bunch actually in the square they’ll have to have him placed at the back somewhere, of course that could be somewhere around the Trongate if the predicted amount of folk turning up is correct

  99. Artyhetty says:

    Yep great article. Let’s not allow these jumped up idiots away with that type of imbecilic but nevertheless, potentially dangerous attacks against our SNP MP’s. It would not be tolerated the other way around and should not be tolerated coming from Labour. Disgraceful really.

    They are going for the personal right now, but that will change. The Britnats really have nothing else to offer Scotland, they never have had, but relied on the workers’ vote to keep the status quo, to facilitate the continual removal of Scotland’s massive revenues and resources.

    Not anymore.

    Hope tomorrow goes well, enjoy the day, I’ll be there in spirit, I can’t go sadly, I love Glasgow, a really great city. I was there earlier in the week, go see the exhibition at GMOMA, if you can, food for thought, about Marco Polo, and his accounts of travels, ( whether wholly true or not) with film footage of many countries, middle east, far east, some really quite disturbing though, be warned.

  100. Gary45% says:

    Dr Jim@11.37
    Best way to deal with Mr Manky, simply welcome him and his knuckle draggers into the rally, don’t abuse him, just smile.

  101. Gary45% says:

    Forgot to say, hope its a great day tomorrow, prior commitments mean another rally missed. Apologies to all. although its a 380 mile round trip, always worth the effort.

  102. Terry callachan says:

    MS Frances Hoole posts her violent suggestion aimed at J Cherry

    Then when criticised by the public
    she asks the J Cherry to defend her ?

    Hoole is clearly an idiot
    But she won’t see that she is an idiot
    If she couldn’t see the threat in her original post
    She has zero self awareness

  103. Josef Ó Luain says:

    You can’t cure Thick.

  104. James Barr Gardner says:

    Rev Stu, Cracking Post,

    LieBore are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now with their choice of candidates in Scotland and so their downward spiral continues unabated.

  105. Liz g says:

    For all the night owls….


    Wingers will be meeting at Queen Victoria’s Statue.

    AKA .. Vicky’s Arse. The Horse’s Arse.
    ( don’t ask me ask Ronnie Anderson )

    To the right of the stage as ye face it.
    Look for the Wings Flag.. 🙂

  106. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    O/T Jeremy Corbyn now celebrating that ITV offers him a cozy little berth in an exclusive election debate with BoZo. No-one else invited.

    So much for the “many not the few”!

  107. Breeks says:

    Liz g says:
    1 November, 2019 at 9:47 pm
    Breeks, looks like your dream may be about to be realised !
    I’m seeing on Facebook that – Forward As One – are intending to run a crowd funded Court Case if a section 30 is refused….

    Nope. If it’s conditional upon a Section 30 being refused, they’re already “not doing it right”.

    We need an equivalent international “Section 30”; in other words formal International Recognition for Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty. Nothing less. Arguably, with Westminster recently ratifying the Claim of Right, it really should beg the question what in God’s name do we need a Section 30 Agreement with Westminster actually for?

    As a movement, we seemed to be plagued by a lack of Constitutional acumen which I find stunning, and frankly, inexcusable. If it isn’t all a bluff, then we are in desperate trouble. Surely we cannot be this amateurish about something so fundamental??? It seems to me a criminal negligence, and inappropriately deferential on a level with asking Edward 1 to ‘help’ choose Scotland’s monarch.

    We are a sovereign nation. Screw your Section 30. Our Sovereign legitimacy is NOT conditional upon Westminster’s veto. By proclaiming we “need” a Section 30, we are presenting Westminster with their own “Backstop”, – a failsafe to prevent Scotland ever becoming Independent.

  108. Giving Goose says:

    Typical Labour Entitlement with self applied teflon.

  109. Effijy says:

    Just watched a show about Vivienne Westwood
    The Mother of Punk.

    She was wearing a Saltire YES badge and she placed them
    On a series of outfits as her models hit the catwalk.

    She always had a love for tartan and her partner loves to wear the kilt.

    A lady always aware that the UK establishment stinks!

  110. Robert Louis says:

    Breeks at 0433am,

    Yip totally agree. Given Westminster’s acceptance of the claim of right, and that it is hard-wired into the Scottish consitutional settlement, I too cannot fathom this obsession some in the indy movement have for asking permission from London. It is, as you say, literally gifting an anti independence ‘backstop’ to Westminster.

    Scotland: ‘Dear London, England, please can Scotland be allowed to assert its full LEGAL constitutional democratic rights, and hold a referendum?’

    England: ‘No. Now shut the f**k up and do what Britain England tells you.’

    Scotland: ‘Oh, ok, sorry for troubling you’.

    Given that the FM intends requesting a section 30, would it not make more sense to do so prior to the election, rather than after it. Since it will be refused, it will make clear to Scottish voters that Scotland is being ignored, and give a weapon for the SNP to attack the London parties. In addition, it would crerat a ‘constitutional crisis’ (as the media likes to call it), just before an election, giving the SNP much more air time than would otherwise be the case.

    Asking for a section 30 just before Christmas, to me seems a bit daft. Political correspondents will be off on holiday, ordinary folk will be obsessed with christmas, and NOBODY is likely to even notice when the refusal comes.

    But I’m sure the SNP have a clear strategy on this. I’ll wait to see what the FM says in Glasgow today. It better be good, and about independence, indeopendence, independence.

  111. Richardinho says:

    I agree with Rev. Stu on this, but I do wish he’d leave the trans debate to other people and stick to Scottish independence.

  112. Liz g says:

    Breeks @ 4.33
    Only read it quickly Breeks,but this isn’t about a section 30.
    It seems to be about Westminster getting in our way by whichever means.
    And it didn’t read like they were looking for a one time only judgement either.
    It read to me as if this was to demonstrate that the notion Westminster could prevent Scotland from asking itself if it wants to stay in the Union, was the fiction we know it to be.

    It seems to me that to ask a Court to confirm that Westminster cannot do a thing…. Westminster actually has to have done, or tried to do it first!
    Therefore the section 30 has to be refused first.
    And they’ve been very careful to NOT actually do that in a way that would be actionable, so far.
    Anyhoo we’ll soon know!

  113. MaggieC says:

    Capella @ 11.05pm , The Rally at George Square will be live-streamed by Independence live here for folk that cannot get to Glasgow

    Hope everyone that makes it to Glasgow has a great day .

  114. mumsyhugs says:

    Buckie Yes hub have the timetable of speakers for today up on their Facebook page 🙂

  115. Looks like bright sunshine in Glasgow today,

    wonder what Harvie and the Greens are up to,

    splitting the YES vote for no apparent good or positive reason,

    hopefully Harvie will answer that question today at the rally.

  116. Capella says:

    @ MaggieC – thx for the link – will be watching. Have a good day, everyone who can make it. It is pouring here all day but looks fine in Glasgow.

  117. Golfnut says:

    @Liz g

    ‘ therefore the Section 30 would have to be refused first ‘

    That’s certainly my take on the SG strategy, that principle also applies to the EU Withdrawal Bill, it has not yet been enacted, therefore it’s legality can’t yet be challenged, nor indeed the crowns position, having signed it.

    The SNP MP’s, Blackford in particular, when raising the questions of Scotland’s removal from the EU without consent, or a Section 30 order, aren’t pleading or whinging, they are goading Westminster.

  118. ronnie anderson says:

    Liz g says:
    2 November, 2019 at 1:38 am
    For all the night owls….


    Wingers will be meeting at Queen Victoria’s Statue.

    AKA .. Vicky’s Arse. The Horse’s Arse.
    ( don’t ask me ask Ronnie Anderson )

    To the right of the stage as ye face it.
    Look for the Wings Flag.. ?

    ( the horses arse is where Wingers 1st congregrated a’ll those long years ago )

    Sees yous there Wingers . Have ah great day everyone of yous .

  119. Capella says:

    AFAIK – a S30 order is not “permission” to hold a referendum. It is an agreement that Westminster will honour the result constitutionally, FWIW.

  120. manandboy says:

    (From the Guardian)

    South Africa’s anthem is in five languages and speaks of their love of their land and people.

    England’s is about a rich woman.

    SA win that round.

  121. Marcia says:

    In England more former Tory MP’s are joining the Liberal Democrats. That confirms my view that it has become the Remain wing of the Tory party.

  122. Republicofscotland says:

    Anne McTaggart, a former Labour MSP and Glasgow city councillor has ditched Labour to join the SNP saying Labour has done nothing positive for a long time. McTaggarat added that she wanted to be part of something positive.

    Also the former LibDem Lord Provost of Fife Council Francis Melville has said she’ll support the SNP via Stephen Gethens in the GE, saying Stephen (Who only holds a two vote majority) has worked tirelessly for the community is the best candidate.

    Welcome aboard both of you, lets get independence and try and build a better Scotland for all of us.

  123. Effijy says:

    To all English White Supremest Rugby fans, with a Special mention to
    Bojo the Clown and Homer Farage
    Fit It Right FUY.

    Congratulations to the South African team.
    Perhaps motivated by England’s actions during
    The Boar war were they starved to death thousands
    Of men, women and children.

  124. Old Pete says:

    England getting hammered by South Africa and they deserve it. Well done the Springbox.

  125. Abulhaq says:

    [You’re not defending woman’s rights unless you defend trans rights.
    Please respect what you are being told by advocacy groups.]
    There you have the convoluted logic and that ‘respect’ meme in all their prescriptive glory.
    ‘Respect’ us, but do not expect the ‘respect’ to be reciprocated as you are so totally beyond the identitarian pale.
    Brave New World-ism ahoy!

  126. Dr Jim says:

    BBC Radio Scotland the Shereen Nanjiani show

    Tom Harris ex Labour MP admits he’s a Tory

    I’m sure we’re all amazed shocked and stunned by that revelation

    Mr Harris said “I’d vote for anybody who’d stop the SNP getting another Independence referendum and who’s going to get us Brexit but I won’t vote for the Brexit party”

  127. Dorothy Devine says:

    History of the best kind made by RSA rugby team. Congratulations to them all and their first black captain.

    RSA played with such efficiency, accuracy and heart.

  128. dadsarmy says:

    Hard luck to England for losing Synckler within 3 minutes, but they took far too long to recover and the Boks were on top of them for the rest of the game, though Eddie Jones did get the pack right for about 5 minutes in the 2nd half.

    Now for the train to Glasgow 🙂

  129. Effijy says:

    Excitement rising as right minded people from all walks of life descend to
    To Independence Square on Saltire Saturday.

    The true Wings supporters can meet there and discuss where the statues of those
    Leading us to Independence can be located.

    This will be the first time the Web Cam on the Square isn’t
    Suffering Fake Break Downs initiated by Labour’s Donkey Councilors.

    What a great day ahead!

    See you there!

  130. Gary45% says:

    Rain hammering up here in gods country, dreich, but sunshine everywhere at least in our house, well done South Africa.
    Monday mornings LBC with Nick Trabant should be classic, I reckon he will still be “greetin”, and there was me thinking Engerland were “the be all and end all” well at least that’s what we are sold.
    Expect titles for the players for beating the All Blacks,they have to get a “Wool Bwitania empire celebration” for the gullible.
    No Brexit, no World Cup, oh dear, you’ve got to laugh.

  131. HYUFD says:

    Effijly Thankyou for that comment on England’s world cup final loss from eliminated in the first round Scotland (as a Unionist though I of course still supported Scotland against Japan). Plus of course there was apartheid for decades in South Africa under largely Boer leadership even if it has changed now

  132. Iain mhor says:

    @Capella 9:34am

    It’s exactly what it is – temporarily devolved legislation, giving specific competency to hold a referendum on a retained, or non-devolved matter ie: ‘Constitutional’.
    (Scotland Act 1998 Section 1 (29) & Schedule 5)

    A ‘Section 30’ giving temporary competence to hold a referendum, involves no agreement about the result, it would be (as all UK referendums are) advisory. Hence the previous, additional, ‘Edinburgh Agreement’ – which in itself was not legislation and so, arguably not judiciable – which is important.

    One argument that an S30 is not required, involves interpretation of devolved matters and ‘constitutional’ issues as laid out in the legislation (above) There is no agreement (ha!) on this and has not been put to the proof. It may well be soon.
    As ever, the UK government proceeds on its own ‘understanding’ and dictates it as dogma. It is up to anyone to challenge their ‘understanding’ or interpretation of legislation.

    The Scotland Act, S30’s etc are all legislation, therefore are judiciable (arguable in law) many, many column inches have been expended, arguing whether the holding of a referendum is within Scotland’s competence or requires an S30. The only agreement is, that it would have to be ‘tried’ or ‘put to the proof’ in a court of law, in order to come to a definitive interpretation.
    Hence the “request for an S30”, on the understanding that it is not settled that it is even required, but is an expected formality in order that the UK gets to retain its untried dogma. The UK does not particularly wish to have, not just this issue, but an entire constitutional can of worms opened up in court. Both sides are bluffing.

    But it is understandable that it could be seen as an “agreement”, as it is a case of “let us agree to a temporary piece of legislation, so neither of us ends up in court”
    Which is why UK Governments are careful not to say ‘never’ or refuse outright – rather (ok) but “Now is not the time”.
    Whereas numerous politicians can say “If I’m ever in a position where I’m asked I’ll refuse’. They’re not in that position and would be ill advised if they ever were, to ‘refuse’ – it would trigger the nuclear option – Which of course has equal chance of delivering a terrible result for either party – hence eternal bluffing.

  133. Graeme says:

    HYUFD says:
    2 November, 2019 at 11:27 am

    Effijly Thankyou for that comment on England’s world cup final loss from eliminated in the first round Scotland (as a Unionist though I of course still supported Scotland against Japan). Plus of course there was apartheid for decades in South Africa under largely Boer leadership even if it has changed now


    There was also concentration camps

    I wonder where they came from ?

  134. Thought Wales gave SA a harder game,

    think Eng overreached against a strangely error prone AB,

    would have been a better final SA v AB,

    strength/muscle v skill/speed.

  135. Capella says:

    @ Iain mhor – thx for that summary of the S30 situation. I think it a mistake to refer to it as “permission” to hold a referendum, as many people do. Referendums are not listed as Reserved (last time I looked) but the Constitution is. So a S30 would be an agreement to devolve power for a referendum on a constitutional question – arguably!

    However, the UN rules on decolonisation makes it clear that the state from which a country might be decolonising has no right to prevent it.

    Some would argue that Scotland is not a colony but a signatory to a Treaty of Union. In that case we, can repeal it.

    The only issue is the will of the Scottish people, which is moving towards repeal. This election campaign will be decisive in asserting our right to choose.

  136. Capella says:

    re the Rugby result – relieved to know that we will be spared decades of gloating from the neighbours. But the real joy is to see a black captain of the RSA team holding the trophy. What a huge victory for Nelson Mandela’s long struggle for equality. Something to celebrate.

  137. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Iain mhor @ 11:34:

    Both sides are bluffing.

    That’s it in a nutshell. (My emphasis.)

    Good post, not least on the UK’s custom of punting its diktat as dogma. Now the chancers are likely to face serious organised resistance.

    Can’t see it not ending up in the courts. And that will be political too.

  138. Capella says:

    The effort unionists, including the Electoral commission, are putting into preventing the Referendum Bill from being passed into law suggests that the legal case for S30 refusal is actually very threadbare.

  139. Effijy says:


    As long as I have to tolerate the arrogance and bias of a neighbouring
    Nation who like 1930’s Germany think they are a superior race, I will be
    Supporting their opposition.

    I’ll be the opposition today on the Super Saltire Saturday.

    Lang May yer bum reek!

  140. kapelmeister says:

    BoJo tweets to applaud South Africa for being “rocklike in defence”.

    The fact that the Springboks also scored two of the best tries of the tournament in their 32 – 12 win seems to have escaped his notice.

  141. Jack Murphy says:

    Frances Carmel Hoole cannot possibly remain a Labour candidate.

    The Labour Party: “It’s time for real change”. Frances Carmel Hoole style?


    Labour has gone…

  142. Gary45% says:

    Looks like the George Sq webcam is off.

  143. Terry callachan says:


    Just letting you know that as an anti unionist I support everyone that plays against England
    Including Germany and France
    In any sport
    Yes I do enjoy seeing england beaten
    At anything

    I’m not alone
    Most countries around the world support anyone that plays against England
    I think that’s what comes of a country like England that looks down on everyone and has treated so many countries around the world terribly

  144. Capella says:

    A minute to go and Livestream is buffering endlessly – anyone else having trouble getting the stream?

  145. Terry callachan says:

    When England beat New Zealand the catchphrase the British media used was
    “ an authorative win by England “
    They won by 12 points 19-7

    What should be the catchphrase for England losing to South Africa by 20 points 32-12
    “ a sound thrashing of England by South Africa “ ?

  146. Effijy says:

    Sound system at the square is very poor!
    I’m in the muddle of the Square where Walter is keeping
    The Rev’s column warm and I’m still to make out a word?

    Please don’t tell me the web cam is down?

  147. Capella says:

    yep – the webcam is down and Livestream isn’t streaming. No sound or picture from George Square atm and no explanation of what is going on either.

  148. ElGordo says:

    Stream works best on youtube:

  149. Colin Alexander says:


    Livestream’s not working at 1.50pm.

    GCC George Sq cam not working either.

  150. Capella says:

    Thanks El Gordo – got sound and vision now

  151. Colin Alexander says:


    Thank you. Working nicely.

  152. Capella says:

    Update – still got vision but sound dead.

  153. Capella says:

    Sound now back – for how long. I’ve yet to hear a whole speech. Just illustrates what a dire comms environment we live in. Oh for a genuine national broadcaster!

  154. Jack Murphy says:

    Thanks.Live cameras.
    The YouTube Indy Livestream is good,here it is cached:

  155. Clapper57 says:

    Lib Dems are not going to stand in Anna Soubry’s seat..

    Wow…looks like we may get lucky…shurely they, yon Lib Dems, will Shtand doon in some sheats in Schotland for da ShhhNP…in the name o the wee man…is there no a plan…tae tak awa the fandan fae the Tory Bogeyman….the noo…och aye…braw moon licht nicht the noo Jo Swinson in Schottish seat…the NOO.

  156. ElGordo says:

    @Colin Alexander

    Hope you are on double time for a Saturday avo shift

    Ella Mackay is it…?

    Comments on youtube were all very pleasant until link posted here.

  157. ElGordo says:

    …and then the trolls pile on

  158. Colin Alexander says:

    Mhairi Black: We’re told the rest of the UK subsidises Scotland: the Tories won’t even subsidise a spare bedroom.

  159. kapelmeister says:

    Who wants to take Tiffin with Richard Leonard of the Cillit Bang Party?

  160. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    British Labour in Scotland obviously have absolutely no one decent to field as candidates by the looks of things so will accept anyone (as they scrape the bottom of the barrel):

    “Scottish Labour has been urged to overhaul its vetting processes after a former soldier who assaulted a pregnant woman was approved as a potential candidate.”

    “Alex Tiffin was given the green light to contest a Westminster selection – despite him being charged with a violent offence.”

  161. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Posted an archived link to the story you are alluding to about British Labour in Scotlands potential candidate in Ross, Skye and Lochaber constituency @kapelmeister says at 2:32 pm

    Currently in moderation (assuming the https: bit has done that)!

  162. Colin Alexander says:

    Good to see Nicola Sturgeon addressing the crowd in Freedom Square. Nice speech anaw.

    However, she must start to address the issue of what happens when the UK state ignores or rejects her request for a s30 or else drags out the process to prevent a 2020 indyref.

  163. ElGordo says:

    Why? Surely better to keep you guessing.

  164. ElGordo says:

    – You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks if you only attack places which are undefended. You can ensure the safety of your defense if you only hold positions that cannot be attacked.

    – Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.

    – O divine art of subtlety and secrecy! Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands

    – By discovering the enemy’s dispositions and remaining invisible ourselves, we can keep our forces concentrated, while the enemy’s must be divided.

    – We can form a single united body, while the enemy must split up into fractions. Hence there will be a whole pitted against separate parts of a whole, which means that we shall be many to the enemy’s few.

    – And if we are able thus to attack an inferior force with a superior one, our opponents will be in dire straits.

    – The spot where we intend to fight must not be made known; for then the enemy will have to prepare against a possible attack at several different points; and his forces being thus distributed in many directions, the numbers we shall have to face at any given point will be proportionately few.

    – Numerical weakness comes from having to prepare against possible attacks; numerical strength, from compelling our adversary to make these preparations against us.

    – In making tactical dispositions, the highest pitch you can attain is to conceal them; conceal your dispositions, and you will be safe from the prying of the subtlest spies, from the machinations of the wisest brains

    – Do not repeat the tactics which have gained you one victory, but let your methods be regulated by the infinite variety of circumstances

  165. Capella says:

    Well that was a tonic – once they got the sound sorted. Sound is always the most difficult thing to do without the squillions of cash professional broadcasting has – which we pay for.

    Great speeches from those I heard and Nicola spent a lot of time after doing selfies and interviews. The chap on the drums at the end was also a gem.

    Well done all.

  166. ElGordo says:

    @Colin Alexander

    Question for you,

    In the anagram of your name, “Nicola and Alex ER”, does the ER stand for Emergency Response, Emergency Room, External Relations or Elizabeth Regina?

  167. sassenach says:

    Mike Russell was very clear when he said ” We (Ian B, Mhairi,B,etc) are not going to be going down to London to be insulted any more”.

    I hope this means the SNP will do a Sinn Fein!

  168. Meindevon says:

    LBC having a phone in on Scottish independence. Just switched on to hear a good Yesser being clear about being dragged out the EU.

    Talking about fracking now but will be going back to it.

    Anyone fancy calling in?

  169. Dorothy Devine says:

    Slightly damp but elated – it is so good to see so many saltires fluttering in the breeze.

    Sound was tricky but heard bits and pieces of most speeches and cheered when those who could hear cheered!

    While our First Minister was speaking it appeared a deliberate siren was blasting away – one might be tempted to blame those waving a different flag but I couldn’t possibly comment!

    Ronnie , thanks for the pennant I will do some stitching to sort its wee error!

  170. twathater says:

    Watched it on livestream due to circumstances , I applaud and THANK the many who turned out on behalf of the ones who cannot

    I was encouraged and happy at the positivity and determination espoused by most of the speakers and I hope that PH has a rethink of the way forward . I’m afraid that I cannot warm to the RIC lady Chapman I feel that she is too twee and has a rather condescending manner , much like a headmistress who will listen patiently but knows better

    I felt that Mike Russell , Humza Yousaf and Nicola pulled no punches , it all looked positive

  171. Willie says:

    Just back from George Square. A great crowd and a great speech from the First Minister.

    Meanwhile in the background small but vicious and aggressive group on Unionists. maintained a torrent of abuse and rule Brittania. That they were contained by police these are people were like animals in a pen.

  172. Bill Hume. says:

    I’m not long back from Independence Square.

    Independence supporters come along with their weans, dugs and a message of hope and progress for Scotland.

    Manky jaikit and his supporters come along with whistles so that the crowd can’t hear the speakers.

    This includes the words of the duly elected First Minister of Scotland.

    What are they afraid of?

  173. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Willie @ 17:03:

    Meanwhile in the background small but vicious and aggressive group on Unionists maintained a torrent of abuse and rule Brittania

    These morons (carefully hidden away in the leadup to IR1) are all part of the plan to convince people that independence is the far happier and smarter way forward.

    It’s just that they haven’t realised it yet.

  174. Dr Jim says:

    There is a tactical voting strategy going on all over England to maximise the remain vote into not allowing Johnson to win the General Election, and the person behind the strategy is Gina Miller and she has put her money and her imported American planners advisors and strategists on this
    This strategy is not being employed in Scotland because the Unionist parties refused to co-operate with the strategy in Scotland because their main objective is to oust the SNP not stop Brexit

    So much for the Liberal Democrats and Labour that stopping the SNP is more important to them than stopping the Tories, once again though good on Gina Miller for doing to the Tories on our behalf what they’re doing to us but we can’t afford it

  175. Liz g says:

    Bill Hume @ 5.40
    Some of them were mingling with the crowd too.
    Young guy dressed in black mid 20s blowing a whistle inches from people’s ear.
    A few told him to pack it in, and it eventually became clear he was taking great delight in what he was doing..
    Thankfully the police were quick and got him gone…
    He looked for a second as if he was going to argue it…
    But the look on that cops face changed his mind… 🙂

    So there We have it…. The new defence of the Union…
    They’re going to whistle at us 🙂 🙂 🙂

  176. Iain mhor says:

    @Capella 12:14pm

    Your point about ‘Colonies’ is apt.
    Ironically, had Scotland beem colonised, or was otherwise a Crown Dependency or Protectorate, it would be afforded far more rights than it has currently.
    That is a result of the ‘voluntary union’ and compounded even further by the ignominious result of 2014.
    Ironies abound.

  177. Alabaman says:

    Just as Stu, I say again Stu,
    Just as Stu indicated, Pete Wishart has seen the threat to his seat, with the Greens putting up a candidate, Pete has a majority of 20/30 ish, he’s done one of those tweets things ( I’m old!) effectively saying the Murdo Fraser will be raising a glass to the Greens today.
    (Can you believe the Greens, they must know, A they have not a snowballs in hells chance of any of their candidates being elected, B they also must be aware just how damaging their candidates can be to the votes for the S.N.P. candidates, so why are they doing it, if they are so keen on independence,they sure as hell have a funny way of going about it !)

  178. sassenach says:

    Surely the SNP and Greens are having meetings to discuss GE strategies in various constituencies.

    If Harvie is insistent that they will dilute the SNP vote in possible marginal places then at least we will all know that their own self interest trumps the country’s.

    Nicola should make clear that she can play ‘hardball’ in Holyrood, and not assist Green’s plans. Time for playing nice is over!

  179. callmedave says:

    Soor Plooms:

    Join the queue Jo the SNP are 3rd biggest in UK and remain. 🙁

    General election 2019: Lib Dems lodge complaint over ITV leaders’ debate

  180. dadsarmy says:

    Talked to a couple of people around the margins who wondered waht was going on, told them the programme, and about the UJ’s counter demo in the far corner beyond the memorial bit. They were all smiles and I bet they weren’t impressed with the whistles – or the pseudo emergency service sirens.

    Many midden and his mental midgets really are Indy’s best friends. Polis as always good for a laugh, specially with the horse shit round the back 🙂

  181. dadsarmy says:

    Manky midden!

  182. dadsarmy says:

    Who was a big surprise to me was Yousaf, what a great speaker he was!

  183. Famous15 says:

    As a native of Sutherland I hope the Greens will be rewarded with approval of the Coul Links golf course. A must have for the future of youth employment in Embo and a rational tourist hub in east Sutherland.

    Greens hear this ,the irony of your actions brings the possibility of fracking (opposed by the SNP)nearer if Tories win.

  184. Willie says:

    Biggest vote possible, most seats possible and let’s then move it from there.

    This article about a stupid Labour cow who would spray corrosive liquid into the eyes of of political opponent says everything about the total toiletry that the labour party is.

    And if someone, which could be her, gets a face full of battery acid in the face, then the unionist obscenity will be exposed for exactly what it is.

    Police Scotland should intervene. The promotion of spraying corrosive liquid on political opponents is not acceptable. This should be blindingly obvious to Mr Corbyn.

    And yes it is all blindingly obvious – do we really want to take Cilit Bank to every surgery, every debate, ………So tell tell us Jeremy, tell us Leonard, is this the policy as we move forward. Bang, bang, bang. – corrosives at every debate.

  185. Republicofscotland says:

    “That is a result of the ‘voluntary union’ and compounded even further by the ignominious result of 2014.
    Ironies abound.”

    As far as I know it wasn’t a voluntary union, common folk had no vote. British spy Daniel Defoe reported to London of widespread rioting in Scotland due to the undemocratic vote, and the actual union documents had to be signed in a cellar of a shop on the corner of an Edinburgh street, such was the public bad feeling towards the forced union.

    The union never had any legitimacy to begin with.

  186. mr thms says:

    dadsarmy @ 7:10 pm

    “Who was a big surprise to me was Yousaf, what a great speaker he was!”

    I was listening on the live stream, I could not see any picture but the sound was clear as a bell, and he was outstanding.

  187. Willie says:

    But maybe our Labour candidate is right.

    Maybe bang, bang bang is the way forward.

    Corrosives are ubiquitous. Easy to get hold of. You can soon get rid of a Terf. Or anyone else for that matter.

    Candidate Frances Carmen Hoole knows that. Who will guard her or members of her party against the bang bang policy she recommends.

    Based upon her vile recommendations there could be people at this very moment moving towards fulfilling her recommendations. “ taking the eyes out yer head “ to use an old phrases could be a new labour policy. I truly hope not.

    But we’ll see. With language like this Jo Cox was maybe not the last politico to be tragically slaughtered at the hands of right wing Brexit lunatics. But with head cases like Hoole recommending spaying corrosives.

    As a country, as a people, as a race, or whatever, we need to keep away from these evil agressive sentiments. Unionism may be nasty, murderous even, as the decline of empire has shown. But we need to avoid the hate and chaos that Unionism is.

    Let’s move to a better place and reject the Labour and Tory unionist who would Cillitt Bang us in a heartbeat.

    Let’s keep it decent. No place for this type of aggression. Let’s keep it democratic. Let’s keep unionist venom out of it.

  188. Mist001 says:

    I hate to say it again but having seen some photos and video from Glasgow today, these independence marches and events just aren’t getting the numbers. I look at todays footage, then I see footage from the Catalonian marches and the difference is chalk and cheese.

    I fucking hope people get their acts together at the ballot box because on todays showing, Independence is going to happen by marching or eventing.

  189. Republicofscotland says:


    Heard there was around 20,000 in the square today not bad. I think its at the ballot box that really counts those who weren’t in attendance but support indy will vote for the SNP. I hope.

  190. Just a shout outt to Colonel Blimp great. Meeting you!

  191. Just a shout out to Colonel Blimp great meeting you!

  192. Dr Jim says:

    Maggie Chapman reported as saying that she was against standing candidates against the SNP

  193. sassenach says:

    Dr Jim, sounds sensible of Maggie Chapman, but pompous Patrick is another matter.

    He appears to be a bit crazed with power, since his little band have a bit of a hand in Holyrood. Time he was brought down to earth.

  194. Mist001 says:

    Last week, I posted this:

    “WOW!! Boris Johnson openly admitted the possibility of Scottish Independence!!

    “The alternative is for the people of this country to spend the next year, which should be a glorious year, going through the toxic, tedious torpor of two more referendums – on EU membership and Scottish independence – thanks to Jeremy Corbyn’s incessant indecision.”

    Now, this VERY AFTERNOON, Nicola Sturgeon announced that there will be a Scottish independence referendum next year!!

    I’m very happy to hear this but it also shows at least to me, that despite the anti-Johnson rhetoric, there must be discussions between Scotland and Westminster going on behind the scenes regarding Scottish independence, otherwise neither of them would have been able to make such emphatic statements.

  195. Ruth Ogg says:

    I believe Catalonia has a bigger population than Scotland in a much smaller area of land than Scotland. It may be something to do with accessibility.

  196. Ian Brotherhood says:

    re Maggie Chapman’s alleged comments today…

    Is it possible that Harvie is playing a smart DUP-style move to position himself for some serious behind-the-scenes haggling with NS/SG over post-indy policy making?

    If so, fair enough, but what is the time-scale here? Anyone know if there’s a bar on when candidates can be withdrawn?

  197. ahundredthidiot says:

    Family holding onto membership.

    Looking forward to a Christmas message from FM re Indyref2 in 2020.

  198. galamcennalath says:

    “Boris Johnson knew of Vote Leave’s overspend during the 2016 EU referendum, but appears to have failed to tell the authorities, …. “

    Johnson accused of being dodgy, who could have guessed.

    He carries a lot of baggage and quite possibly has closets full of skeletons. Let’s hope much surfaces over the next few weeks!

  199. Colin Alexander says:

    The SNP already obtained the Holyrood mandate for indyref2. So, indyref2 is already in the bag? So, nothing to worry about?

    Otherwise, if the UK State won’t recognise the Scottish election / Holyrood mandate for indyref2, what’s the SNP doing at Holyrood?

    What are they doing contesting British GE and Scottish devolution elections where Scottish electoral mandates count for nothing?

    Such a situation would be the SNP giving legitimacy to an electoral system where Scotland doesn’t have any real democracy. The SNP would be giving legitimacy to UK (when I say UK I mean English) constitutional law that says Empress Elizabeth is sovereign so Empress Elizabeth in UK Parliament makes UK Parliament sovereign, so UK Parliament can thumb its nose at the democratic votes of Holyrood and the sovereign people of Scotland.

    In other words, the SNP MUST already have the mandate to deliver indyref2 and so have the right to deliver that mandate or the SNP are giving legitimacy to an unelected dictator and her elected dictatorship UK govts. Giving legitimacy to Scotland, the British Empire colony.

    A great man once said: You cannot serve two masters. Either the SNP are serving the people of Scotland or the British Empire. They can’t serve both equally.

    For as long as the SNP send MPs to Westminster, they are part of the British Empire dictatorship of Empress Elizabeth.

    I’m told Nicola has her “secret” Sun Tzu military strategies to defeat the British Empire; if you believe some of the people on Wings.

    Just wondering: How many indyrefs did Sun Tzu win?
    and how many indyrefs has the great indyref tactician Nicola won?

  200. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Richard McIntosh

    Just staggered home after a couple of pit stops, a great day and great to have met up with you in the boozer, where else.

  201. Heart of Galloway says:

    Just back from Glasgow. Wonderful day, despite the sound issues. I was of many who went behind the stage to ask the engineers to get the things sorted out.

    It improved later after a five minute break for sound checks with the crowd.

    Which kinda begged the question why the basics – the ability for a huge audience to here what the speakers are actually saying – had not been sorted out beforehand.

    But The troops stood in the rain patiently and really lit up when Humza Yousaf gave it laldy.

    Mike Russell was outstanding also and set the heather on fire by saying trying to help save England from itself was over and now’s the time to look Scotland’s future as a dependent nation in Europe.

    And when Nicola Sturgeon took the stage the roar fair echoed round Freedom Square.

    She urged every one who believes in independence to get out and campaign for the SNP.

    But much more than that, she urged every part of Scotland to return a yes vote in IndyRef2 next year.

    And in direct appeal to the entire yes movement wrapped herself in a yes flag at the end.

    It was an unmistakeable message that the GE on Dec 12 is a first step towards winning independence in 2020.

    I said some time ago the SNP would NEVER back of holding IndyRef2 in 2020. So it’s all in from me.

    This is happening folks. The die is cast.

  202. Mist001 says:

    Having watched the video of Sturgeons speech today, it struck me that there’s not much difference between her appearance on stage and Trump. All she was missing was some crap AOR American rock music and fireworks. She came on like a rock star but slipped into minister mode when she said ‘We are gathered here today…’!!

    She was quite good though, I’ll give her that.

  203. Dorothy Devine says:

    There are some truly boring , depressing folk on this site – some who can’t just hold their tongues and who witter on in the same old non stop negativity while thinking they’re so smart.

  204. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Lighten up Colin – The wheels fell off England’s sweet chariot in Yokohama this morning and this afternoon revealed that ours are fairly well oiled for the sprint to the finishing line.

  205. crazycat says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    The deadline for the receipt (and presumably withdrawal) of nominations is 14 November. There have been occasions in the past where candidates have appeared on the ballot paper despite having been dropped as official candidates after the deadline.

  206. Liam says:

    Ruth Ogg said: at 9:31 pm

    I believe Catalonia has a bigger population than Scotland in a much smaller area of land than Scotland. It may be something to do with accessibility.

    You’re right. From Wikipedia:

    Area 32,108 km2
    Population. 7,522,596
    Pop Density 234/km2 (610/sq mi)

    Area 77,933 km2
    Population 5,424,800
    Pop Density 67.5/km2 (174.8/sq mi)

    We’re a lot more spread out and there are fewer of us – and they got better standing-about-in-the-open weather too.

  207. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dorothy Devine –

    Please don’t let the doom-merchants and naysayers get tae ye!


  208. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Crazycat –


    Curious for your own thoughts on it all.

  209. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ian , I try not to but every now and then the b^ggers get to me!

  210. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dorothy Devine –



  211. crazycat says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    My original draft for the comment at 10.46 was considerably longer, but then I decided not to post it!

    Since you’ve asked – I doubt if Harvie’s being smart. I’ve known a number of people who worked closely with him, who all seemed to end up disliking him intensely and regarding him as a self-important misogynist. On that basis I’d say it was ego rather than strategy.

    That’s based on opinions – what is definitely fact rather than opinion is that he did not enjoy having Maggie Chapman as his co-convener – when she first stood for re-election he openly supported her rival. So the tweets reporting that she disagreed with the current stance are interesting – and also make her appeal that we all work together less hypocritical.

    I wasn’t able to attend the rally today, so I only saw Harvie’s speech on Independence Live – I thought he seemed a lot less cocksure than usual, so perhaps he’s having second thoughts – which Ross Greer (who has no redeeming features, in my view) will not let him get away with.

  212. Iain mhor says:

    @Republic of Scotland 7:46pm

    Indeed. Hence the quotation marks.

  213. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @crazycat –

    Thanks for that.

    Very interesting.


  214. dadsarmy says:

    I’d say Patrick Harvie was tolerated because the Rally was about Independence – though Sturgeon did later take the chance of asking us all to vote (SNP) in the GE. Naughty Nicola!

  215. Liz g says:

    Crazycat @ 11.46
    Or Mibbi it was dawning on him that he won’t enjoy that kind of support if he lets us down?

  216. Robert Louis says:

    Heart of Galloway at 10pm,

    Yip aside from the sound probs, it was a great day. I was amazed at the crowds of people, and the whole event lifted my spirits. I think, as you say, the change is made, we are now in indyref mode, and this coming election is the first part of all of that.

    As you say, this is it. Time to get behind them, completely, and start doing whatever we all can to show support for the SNP and then on to the independence referendum in 2020.

    I agree, the part at the end of the FM’s speech where she held up and draped herself in the YES flag, made it absolutely clear, the indy ref is coming in 2020, no matter what.

    Their was a buzz in the air, a distrbance in the force or whatever you call it, I hadn’t felt at any indy event since 2014. This really is it. INDYREF 2020.

    Now, today, the fight begins. This time, Scotland will re-assert itself as a proud independent sovereign nation of the world. How will i be voting? SNP, OF COURSE.

  217. john dickson says:

    I note that the said imbecile has protected tweets, I guess the kitchen was too hot for her

  218. gus1940 says:

    Wonderful rally in Freedom Square yesterday.

    My only constructive criticism (and this applies to the AUOB marches and rallies with a few exceptions) is the lack of pictures taken from high buildings to show the size of the crowd.

    Surely it is not impossible for the organisers to arrange access to high buildings for Livestream and other photographers.

    A camera situated on a high building for marches could record the whole march from start to finish with retrospective counting of the numbers to eliminate the arguments over numbers which has been a feature of every march to date.

  219. Heart of Galloway says:

    Excellent interview with Nicola Sturgeon on SKY’s Sophie Ridge right now.

    BBC nada. Quelled surprise.

  220. galamcennalath says:

    Express headline … “Sturgeon humiliated by unionist counter protest Glasgow rally”


  221. frogesque says:

    Just a thought and don’t even know if it’s possible given party conventions and constitutions etc.

    Instead of standing against the SNP, could the Scottish Greens go balls out and contest the seat for Berwick on Tweed? Would give them a lot of publicity and kudos.

  222. Ghillie says:

    Photos in The National look fantastic 🙂

  223. manandboy says:

    “A camera situated on a high building for marches could record the whole march”

    Gus1940, Absolutely.

    As for yesterday’s rally, there is such high footage, I’ve seen it on my wife’s phone.
    Will try to find the link and post it.

  224. Ghillie says:

    frogesque, what a cool idea =)

    Especially as Berwick Upon Tweed is, I believe, interested in rejoining Scotland 🙂

    The Scottish Greens would be warmly welcomed I think!

  225. Ghillie says:

    As long as they didn’t interfere with the Speedway that is!

    Berwick upon Tweeders are very fond of their Berwick Bandits!

  226. manandboy says:

    Link for video from high building of yesterday’s rally.

  227. frogesque says:

    Glasgow was fan yesterday even allowing to the sound system bdebauch. Didn’t expect to hear anything anyway and the recorded speeches etc all over the internet are clear as a bell.

    We had a very busy YES Stones corner under our distinctive purple flag and stones are wending their way all over Scotland and beyond. We also raised a few baubies for the Hail Alba Pipe Band who, as always were brilliant as were the Bikers even though they were not permitted to do a circuit of Freedom Square.

    Finally, a shout for all the beautiful and patient wains many of a home were dressed up. Not forgetting all the doggies, large and small who were there with their well trained owners.

  228. galamcennalath says:

    A tale of two medias his morning …

    The National … “A LABOUR MP has publicly come forward to claim that he was sexually assaulted by Tory MP Ross Thomson”

    Press and Journal … “Aberdeen tycoon pledges £5,000 towards Ross Thomson’s re-election campaign”

  229. Dorothy Devine says:

    Galamcennalath , I didn’t believe you were serious about that headline so I had a wee look – dear lord! What are these ‘scottish’ journalists on?

    It’s just ‘tell the biggest fib imaginable and some eejit will sook it up’

    It is now proved beyond reasonable doubt that the EXPRESS and their churnalists LIE and LIE and LIE.

  230. Effijy says:

    Aberdeen Tycoon obviously has been touched by Ross Thompson’s advances.
    Wonder if it’s Mr Wood the stinking rich Tory who has robbed Scotland oil blind for decades?

    Hope they can share a cell together one day.

  231. Abulhaq says:

    Re Catalonia, according to 2007 language data >50% declared Spanish/Castellano as first language. Catalan was >32%, bilingual >7%.
    That gives a reasonable indicator of likely voting intentions re independence, Spanish speakers being unionist inclined.
    Btw. away from the coast weather in Catalonia can be quite dreich and chilly in the winter months.
    Catalan nationalists come out in all weathers.

  232. Heart of Galloway says:


    Comic book stuff! By the by, it’s worth bearing in mind that yesterday’ rally was static, unlike the AUOB marches where any interaction with manky jaiket’s Neanderthals is mercifully fleeting.

    The whistles and mock sirens were pathetic but they were an irritant throughout

    On occasion police intervention was required when the antics of some of their more exuberant hingers-on bordered on provocation.

    This was a yes rally in Freedom Square. The wee Britnat crew should have been punted to a venue more fitting to the cause.

    Such as the gates of the Necropolis.

  233. Effijy says:

    First Minister’s speech has had an effect on her
    Independence petition now standing at 290,600
    Of her 300,000 target.

    Wonderful if she can refer to when Fluffy says no appetite for independence.

  234. mike cassidy says:

    Training begins for the next Wings night out.

  235. Ottomanboi says:

    Returned from politically messed up Tunisia to politically worn out Scotland.
    These images suggest the indy age demographic is rather ‘elevated’. Where are the young people? Bored with whole tedious show?
    With a recent Survation poll for Progress Scotland indicating a ‘softening’ in support for independence one wonders whether this is indy’s swan song.
    Thanks SNP, it was good while it lasted but you definitely could have danced to a better tune than the Stop Brexit ‘gay gordons’.

  236. Beflox says:

    I love that you put the word “vile” in quotes ….

  237. mike cassidy says:

    Green Party electoral strategy meeting.

  238. K1 says:

    *cough* vacuous prick.

  239. Liz g says:

    Ottomanboi @ 11.25
    Did you actually read the article you’ve linked to?
    It shows the opposite of your claim as it gives the ages of people in the crowd that’s been quoted…..

  240. Republicofscotland says:

    Manandboy 9.57am.

    Thank you for that video link of the rally yesterday, seeing it from that angle really puts a different perspective on it, in a good way.

  241. crazycat says:

    @ frogesque and Ghillie

    The Berwick upon Tweed constituency is huge (2,310 square km) and consists almost entirely of rural Northumberland; the English and Welsh Greens already have a candidate there for the forthcoming election:

  242. Gary45% says:

    Hi Troops anyone listening to Madjid Nawaz on LBC at the moment, embarrassing, had to switch it off.

  243. Dr Jim says:

    We live in a country (Scotland) where every TV presenter and news reader in England asks a politician from England if they will allow people in Scotland to do something people in Scotland vote for

    The system is that England has a General Election where a load of uneducated morons vote for a person of their particular tribal view then that person gets to decide the future of the entire population of Scotland a place that the constituents who voted for that English politician have only ever heard about on the telly (like the Virgin Islands)

    If the same news readers reported this about other countries around the world they’d be telling us it was undemocratic dictatorship by unscrupulous tyrannical regimes and we should all be outraged

    Unless it’s England doing it then it’s fine

  244. Gary45% says:

    When anyone is confronted with the Brexiteer line of “our greatest ally America”. Just add this wee chestnut.
    31st December 2006 Britain finally paid off the last of its debt to America for their help in ww2.
    Friends?? more like a loan shark. (just think NHS)

    Has Britain billed America for helping the yanks in Iraq, and the rest of the middle east conflicts that we were dragged into by Uncle Sam??
    I wont hold my breath.

  245. MJT says:

    I was at the Rally yesterday and I thought it was a good cross section of people of all ages. There was loads of young folk and a lot of young families with their kids. I was with a guy who had his two young waens and we moved to the side where it was a bit less crowded for them.

    One thing struck me yesterday was that I reckon we’ll have more people actively involved in the campaign; canvassing, chapping doors, delivering leaflets and having conversations at stalls. I’m sure this will be the case in Glasgow and I hope the same is true in towns and cities all across Scotland.

    I think more ordinary people are invested in the cause this time around. I hope everyone realizes they can make a difference, no matter how small it’s not inconsequential. And we’ll do it by being smart, informed, warm and welcoming. We want people to join us and we won’t get it done with hate speech and using derogatory terms for those who don’t see things our way – just yet. More and more I’m hearing stories about folk who were 100% No, changing their minds. I have a family member who’s changed his mind. It was a gradual process, where he came to a realization…he wasn’t badgered, harangued or goaded…just gently guided.

    The rally was organised at relatively short notice. It was a fairly dreich afternoon. All things considered I thought the turn out was great.

  246. Effijy says:

    I read some of the comments the National journalist picked up from
    Yesterday’s rally.

    FFS Some people truly are brain dead.
    They just don’t know the reality they are living in.

    One chap said he go with the flow if we voted independence
    But he thinks after ten years it would be terrible, like Ireland?

    Is that Ireland who had their country stolen.
    The country that watched as million died of starvation
    Is that the country that turned machine guns on innocent
    Men woman and children.
    The Ireland that was the Celtic Tiger economy that left the UK behind
    The Ireland that currently leaves the UK economy behind.

    He mentioned how Ireland had it really had it bad
    In the recent banking crash recession, yes and the millions
    Of UK families who lived below the breadline, lost their homes and
    Their jobs and had the throats cut from their benefits and public services were
    Lording it up I suppose? Party night at the Food Bank couldn’t be missed?

    Maybe people should have to pass a reality check before being given the vote?

  247. Colin Alexander says:

    If s30 indyref2 goes ahead, it’s cos the Empire believes the Empire will win (by whatever means necessary).
    The SNP have seen it and done it all before. They know this better than anyone. Indyref2 will be a diplomatic game to enhance SNP power as administrators of greater devolution as part of the Empire (run by the SNP).

    There’s no way devolutionists / Westminster politicians with their own political party policies, should be the leaders of the independence campaign. Even with the purest heart of a saint, which politicians don’t have, there is a conflict of interest. That conflict is already self-evident: an indyref2 rally is used as a pro-SNP rally at GE time.

    It was also used as a pro-SNP/Green equalities / feminism / gay rights / pro-immigration / devolution policies rally.

    Independent Scotland should be about one policy only: independence. EU membership, equalities, immigration etc etc should be for the people of independent Scotland to decide upon when independent, not decided upon by the SNP and Greens as a pre-condition of any attempt to even try for indy.

    To put it another way: you must vote for SNP woke policies etc, if you support independence.

    That brings us back to: Who else but the devolution / Westminster SNP can lead Scotland to indy?

    I would argue, that’s not a positive reason to vote SNP at this GE. That’s pointing out the gross failure of the YES movement in putting all its eggs in one basket: the Empire’s basket, playing the rigged game of British politics.

    It’s pointing out our failure to move forward as a nation, hoping the SNP will do it for us. Then moaning when they don’t, cos they are a British political party whose jobs and income rely on doing it the British Empire way.


    Vote SNP. Play the British Empire Westminster game. That’s your choice. That’s the limited democracy of our unelected sovereign in Parliament / Sovereign UK Parliament British way.

    Good luck to the SNP. Good luck to Scotland. They say you cannae beat luck; I hope that’s true.

  248. Bill McLean says:

    o/t – moved to Birmingham a couple of months and took out a subscription to The National so I wouldnt miss my favourite newspaper. At first it was fine but recently have had trouble getting it. I use Firefox, and have tried to get it by Google to no avail. Sometimes I get a copy from the day earlier. Today I can get absolutely nothing! Does anyone know how I contact their techy people and try to get this sorted?

  249. Dorothy Devine says:

    It would be good if the National discarded dreg comments much in the same manner the MSM promotes them – we don’t need the only indy supporting paper to promote ordure , plenty of others to do the job.

  250. Giving Goose says:


    Re Mawaz on LBC.
    He over compensates so that he can ingratiate himself with the London Establishment.
    A bigger crawler you will not come across (except all BritNats in Scotland).

  251. Gary45% says:

    Colin A@1.23
    Have you been mixing the semi skimmed with gold top again?
    Have a wee lie down son, and have another try later.

  252. Gary45% says:

    Giving Goose@1.30
    Aye spot on, the only ism he never mentions is Zionism which is far worse than any or ism.
    He goes unchallenged by speaking over serious debate.
    Zionism 101.

  253. Capella says:

    Interesting comments on the S30 issue. STV reported that Boris Johnston has said no to a S30 request. This is untrue and Denise Findlay points out that he just refused to answer. Because it is a Treaty, we can vote to repeal it.

  254. Dr Jim says:

    Newsreaders should be asking English politicians to justify what they think gives them the right to decide Scotland’s constitutional situation over the rights of the Scottish people

  255. Dr Jim says:

    When English constituents voted for their chosen politicians they didn’t ask them about the constitutional positions of Scotland Ireland or Wales they voted for them to fix their local issues and any English politician who says they didn’t is a liar

    England cares about England, and so they should, that’s their country, Scotland’s our country

  256. Sarah says:

    @Bill McLean at 1.24: email Callum Baird

  257. Dr Jim says:

    English votes for English laws *EVEL* designed to prevent Scottish MPs interfering in England’s decisions about its own country

    But English MPs have plenty to say and even decide on anything they want concerning Scotland, and they get to go on the telly to do it

  258. Iain mhor says:

    @Gary45% 12:35am

    Yes and no. Yes a loan is precisely what the UK was paying off. But only because they pissed a staggering gift of money from the USA up the wall and had to go back again for more. In the circumstances, I think the USA was probably within their rights to act the ‘loan shark’ the second time.
    I’m no apologist for the USA in a lot of things – but no, frankly they owe us heewhaw for anything. The sentiment that they are no friend to the UK I agree with, but for different reasons.

  259. Iain mhor says:

    @Capella 1:47pm

    Interesting isn’t it.
    Even a loose canon like Boris is careful, he’s still the PM.
    When Parliament is dissolved prior to a GE, it will be open season on ‘refusal rhetoric’ – even from Boris, because he will no longer be PM (if only temporarily) and not in a position to refuse. Then it will be back to hum&haw from the next PM & Government, probably him again.

  260. Clapper57 says:

    Ross thomson has quit ….jumped before pushed Lol

  261. Republicofscotland says:

    I have to say that I’m totally disgusted with the LBC radio presenter Maajid Nawaz, who said live on radio today, that Scottish independence would be bad for the world, but good for Putin.

  262. Jack Murphy says:

    Ross Thomson Tory MP and Tory candidate for Aberdeen South in General Election has quit:


  263. Clapper57 says:

    Re my above post…think Ross Thomson was TOLD you better STAND DOWN that’s why he has ‘QUIT’….he was always gonna be an #SNPGAIN…so who will they replace him with ??? The mind boggles…as do the Tory MSP’s at Holyrood…Lol

  264. Capella says:

    @ Iain mhor – 2.35 – yes he is not as green as he’s cabbage looking.
    Odd though – there was a comment there about the fact that it is a treaty which can be voted out of. But that comment is no longer there. Oh well. Keep em guessing!

  265. galamcennalath says:

    Dorothy Devine says:

    Galamcennalath , I didn’t believe you were serious about that headline so I had a wee look – dear lord! What are these ‘scottish’ journalists on?

    In some ways the Express is the most hilarious publication on the stands. Its headlines and stories are so preposterous and removed from reality, they can be genuinely very funny.

    I find particularly entertaining when the Express uses the word ‘revealed’ in headlines, which they do regularly, to imply they are offering insight and information not available elsewhere.

    However, there are some incredibly gullible people out there who actually believe appears in ‘their’ paper.

  266. Republicofscotland says:

    Herald newspaper poll suggests Herald readers will vote for the SNP and independence.

  267. Dan says:

    An oasis of potential headlines…

    What’s the Story Fondling Tory.

    Hysteria hits Torry as it’s history for Tory.

  268. Bill McLean says:

    Sarah – many thanks! Will try tomorrow.

  269. Gary45% says:

    Iain Mhor@2.12
    Thanks for the info.

  270. Clapper57 says:

    Surely now that Ross Thomson has stood down….Boris J will reward him by giving him a knighthood…for services to his ( Boris’s) fanclub …..Tories ALWAYS reward failure with a… knighthood.

    Ian Duncan..former MSP…candidate for GE 2017…Lost…given knighthood…now Lord Ian Duncan Doughnuts.

    Michelle Mone….failed entrepreneur….now Lady Never stops Moaning.

    Danny Alexander – Lib Dem MP in Tory coalition…lost seat in GE 2015…now Sir Danny Alexander Brothers.

    Nick Clegg…Lib Dem Tory coalition…lost seat GE in 2017…now Sir Nick Facebook Clegg

    Etc Etc….

    Arise Sir Ross Thomson Twin… the Queen or whoever places the sword on his shoulder they could play The Who’s track See Me Feel Me

    See Me…FEEL me..TOUCH me…Heal me etc etc

    Obviously as they play it all eligible males must ensure they are outwith Ross’s reach….or rather not within TOUCHING distance ….

    I hear Ruth has started her pitch for one from Boris…in taking up the Ross mantle of number one Fangirl for Bojo and Brexit..

    Lady Ruth Stranger to the Truth Davidson…arise for your lies M’Lady…..a lady very much ….in waiting…oh yes.

  271. frogesque says:

    @crazycat: 11.54

    Thanks for that, as I said not sure of the relationship between Scottish Greens and the English/Welsh Greens. Wouldn’t be a good look for Scot Greens to stand in Berwick on Tweed. Pity, it would have been maximum mischief at minimum cost.

  272. Bob Mack says:

    I have a handy hint for Ross Thomson, but I suppose he doesnt actually need it .

  273. Arthur C says:

    May I recommend this excellent, thoughtful piece by young Mr Brotherhood on Indyref2 forum.

  274. Moonlight says:

    Completely off topic, but hopefully the right people read this blog.
    I´m of the view that circumstances might change, very rapidly and unexpectedly.

    As a frequent traveller within the EU and being associated with a business there I need to travel freely in the EU, both in terms of duration of stay and in allowed activities.
    Should we find ourselves in the happy position of being separated from or at least significantly distanced from the UK or it´s succesor,I will initially not have a Scottish passport. It will take time to set up our own system.

    Could the Scottish Government look at an entirely voluntary ID card to either stand alone or be used in combination with the UK passport specifically for use in the EU. Perhaps the existing Saltire card could form the basis of such a system.
    I will need a form of identity to prove I am Scots whilst I still have to carry a UK passport, I already have an electronically readable card. Might be easy, might not, but I have been thinking of this for a while especially having been delayed in the last week at the Luxembourg border before entering the freedom of the Schengen zone.

  275. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    frogesque @ 16:18,

    All credit due, they do respect each others’ territories, and don’t pretend to be what they are not. Unlike the BritNat parties here, whose fanciful tacking of “Scottish” onto their names would have them up before a court under EU rules if they were food products.

    Yup, we could do with far tougher political hygiene laws.

    Post-indy, one of the priorities, methinks.

    (Though the need for qualifying everything with “Scottish” will automatically vanish, of course. It will be understood. Just like any other normal country, in fact.)

  276. HandandShrimp says:

    Sorry to SNP gain stepping down. His seat was a certainty for the SNP. I guess he was told he had no support within the hierarchy. No reward for backing Boris then.

  277. uno mas says:

    Boris Johnson to contest Aberdeen South!!

    You heard it here first.

  278. iainmore says:

    Being from Moray I sincerely hope that Douglas Red Card Red Card Red Card Ross gets booted out. He will still have a job screaming for the Ref to dish out Red Cards to anybody playing against his precious Rrrrangers.

    Oh and I think we are deluding ourselves if any of us think the Yoons are going to give up their precious anti Scottish Union without violence and hatred. It is in their rotten hateful cores to be violent. Frances double barrel Hoole shows her true colours. Nasty poisonous bitch. Her belated apology is just not credible.

  279. Clapper57 says:

    I watched an interview with Jo Swinson with Sky’s Sophie Ridge…the one where Swinson NOT in the studio but in an outdoor location…Ridge reads out all the negative policies implemented while Lib Dems (with Jo Swinson) were in coalition with the Tories.

    Swinson then proceeds to spout the ‘regret’ excuse .

    It occurred to me that neither Ridge nor Swinson stated the obvious regret would have been ‘NOT TO HAVE GONE INTO A COALITION WITH THE TORIES IN THE FIRST PLACE’…that would then have enabled her NOT to have any regrets on this as she would not have been an enabler in Tory policies that destroyed so many lives of ordinary people….and very much encouraged many voters to vote for Brexit because of the impact of these very damaging policies.

    It seems that Swinson is (over) using the ‘Regret’ excuse as her Get Out of Jail Card for her willing time in the Tory coalition government to try and persuade remain mugs to vote for her party in the upcoming GE…we regret therefore we should be absolved of all past sins….however had they NOT chosen to go into this coalition…knowing full well what the Tories represented…then this particular issue would not currently be used as (one of) the strong ‘Achilles heel’ weapons with which to inflict potential political damage upon them….and then she could with her brass neck have ‘No Regrets’……at least none she would want any of the gullible voters to know about….excepting of course the very many canny minded Scots who miss not a trick where Jo and her party are concerned….oh yeh.

    Obviously I see this as poetic justice long overdue for the party who lies with such ease and fights such dirty election campaigns…who smear others and have NO remorse about doing so ( Carmichael on Nicola and the atrocious smear ridden campaign election leaflets of Cole Hamilton against Michelle Thomson) and yet THEY expect mercy, forgiveness and understanding from people on their most suspect, to say the least, past actions both IN and OUTWITH their Tory coalition.

    I really hope that most Scots can see them for who they really are….many ‘Remainers’ down south are being blinded and far too willing to forgive and forget their, the Lib Dems, past ‘misdemeanors’ because the Lib Dems have sneakily positioned themselves into the role of ‘saviours of Brexit’….beware False Prophets….because that is the REAL role the Lib Dems are taking….as it has always been and will always be….like forever…..

  280. Scott says:

    uno mas says:
    3 November, 2019 at 5:16 pm
    Boris Johnson to contest Aberdeen South!!

    You heard it here first.

    Sorry uno but the Tank Commander Davidson will beat him to it.

  281. Liz g says:

    Great post by Ian Brotherhood over on Scots Renewables and if I ever figure out how to comment on the bloody thing I’ll say so over there. 🙂

  282. heraldnomore says:

    @republic – aye, Nawaz has been at that nonsense for weeks now; professing the UK to be his country, which no one has the right to break up, and shouting down any uppity Jock that dares question him. It’s the off button for him usually.

    Whilst O’Brien and Fogarty simply demand that you listen in, by being open, honest, and entertaining with it.

  283. Clapper57 says:

    @ Liz G @ 5.32pm

    Hi Liz…Flapper here…Lol

    Yep read Ian’s piece ….as per… he would say.

    Well written and well structured….didnae ken he was an author…though no surprise as when he writes he writes from the heart….best place IMHO….where as many , I include myself Lol, write sometimes from another ….region…. shall we say…Lol

    Hope you are well Liz…have a good evening.

  284. Liz g says:

    Clapper 57 @ 5.41
    Hi Flapper, I’m good thanks.
    I hope this finds ye well.
    Was a great day yesterday did ye make it along?

  285. Bobp says:

    Scottish greens standing in berwick would be a great barometer on how people there feel about rejoining Scotland. Pretty sure i read somewhere that there was a lot of people there who wanted to be part of scotland, re snhs, prescription charges, etc, That would be some slap in the face to westminster. Even coming into second place would make the rest of england sit up and take notice. Who knows.

  286. Breeks says:

    Liam says:
    2 November, 2019 at 10:46 pm
    Ruth Ogg said: at 9:31 pm

    I believe Catalonia has a bigger population than Scotland in a much smaller area of land than Scotland. It may be something to do with accessibility.

    You’re right. From Wikipedia:

    Area 32,108 km2
    Population. 7,522,596
    Pop Density 234/km2 (610/sq mi)

    Area 77,933 km2
    Population 5,424,800
    Pop Density 67.5/km2 (174.8/sq mi)

    We’re a lot more spread out and there are fewer of us – and they got better standing-about-in-the-open weather too.

    Don’t feel inferior to Catalonia.

    In Scotland’s 2014 IndyRef, 1.6 million voted YES in a TOTAL population of 5.4million. That’s 29.6% . In Catalonia, 2.06 million voted Indy in a total population of 7.5 million. That’s 27.5%. So the results are broadly comparable. (I know it’s meaningless, because you’re counting kids who can’t vote, but it’s just a banal comparison).

    But, on share of the actual vote, (not population), Scotland was 45% : 55%, while in Catalonia, the result was an emphatic 93% : 7%

    I’m not really number cruncher, and apologies Catalonia, but the tough love truth suggests the Catalan result looks like a referendum that was boycotted by the No vote, which stayed at home. You’ll have to draw you’re own conclusions whether that invalidates the vote. It’s difficult to deliver such a kick in the teeth, especially when you’re getting your skull cracked by a Spanish truncheon.

    Hats off to Catalonia, I am so very envious and impressed to see them mobilise their support in such massive crowds. In big crowds, yup, they’ve got us licked. But Scotland more than holds it’s own when it really matters, and I wouldn’t swap any of our circumstances and percentages for theirs.

    Let me stress, I mean no flippant disrespect to the Catalans. It isn’t a competition, and their dignity and courage under Spanish hoodlums masquerading as police should humble and inspire us all. But don’t think for a moment that Scotland is lagging behind Catalonia on the road to Indy. We’re doing fine.

    If the polls are right, and we Scots really have crossed the 50% mark, and we’re truly here to stay, then Scotland is actually in a much better place democratically than Catalonia. But besides emotional support, the best thing that Scotland do for our friends in Catalonia is get ourselves over the line and Independent, as an inspiration to emulate.

    I still harbour serious doubts about our strategy and how we’re addressing Scotland’s Constitution, but I think we will find Independence develops a gravitational pull all of its own, and once over the inertia with a little momentum behind us, neither a Constitutional distinction nor a weak Campaign strategy will alter our greater trajectory towards Sovereign Independence. It’s time is coming, and nothing can really stop it.

  287. crazycat says:

    @ Bobp

    As I pointed out above, the constituency of Berwick upon Tweed is vastly bigger than the town of the same name. Most of the county of Northumberland is included in it; the southern, urban parts of the old Northumberland have been Tyneside for some time.

    The town was separated from Scotland, despite there being a Scottish county of Berwickshire of course, but attempts to return it do not, as far as I know, include large chunks of north east England.

    More importantly, there already is a Green candidate declared – quite properly from the Green Party of England and Wales.

  288. Clapper57 says:

    @ Liz G @ 5.45pm

    Glad you are well.

    Nope I did not make it…was ill …but hubby did..before going to Hibs/Celtic match..Hecky out…Lol

    Hubby said could not hear anything…so moved nearer front…heard the Unionist peeps wae their whistles…pathetic but so obvious.

    Anyway….I am currently a wee bit… lightheaded…had wine with my evening meal and I am now drinking a wee (big) sherry as an ………aper a teeth….so must NOT post as drunken rants not conducive to any or online…Lol

    Enjoy your evening xxxx

  289. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Arthur C (4.47) –




    🙂 🙂 🙂

  290. sassenach says:


    Your final paragraph was spot on – I usually scroll past your posts – but I’m glad I didn’t this time, as it was the first signs of positivity from you for a while.

    Keep it up, good chap.

  291. HYUFD says:

    Boris Johnson has ruled out allowing a second vote on Scottish independence while he is prime minister.
    ‘Mr Johnson said his government would not give the go-ahead for another legally-binding referendum.
    The Tory leader claimed the issue had been settled in a “once-in-a-generation” vote in 2014.’

    Yet Boris still manages to look moderate compared to the Spanish government in Catalonia

  292. starlaw says:

    Boris said he would be dead in a ditch . . We are still waiting !

  293. Clapper57 says:

    Kinda glad that Scottish Tories tried to sweep under the carpet the Thomson ‘twin’ Lol ‘investigation’ via first Strangers Bar incident…and dragged their heels on concluding their supposed long long long long long investigation…cause now at the most INOPPORTUNE moment we are witness to yet another…groping incident…where media has to admit ( just seen it on telly ) that this is the SECOND time he has been accused of doing this in the SAME bar….that is ‘Strangers’….though Thomson clearly TRYING to make friends of strangers…und political opponents…Ross…he is no stranger to controversy…his story TOUCHED me…I FEEL for him…though would be GRASPING at straws to say I understand why … fact I am GROPING around looking for justification for his actions….

    What IS that expression about something coming back to bite you in the bum ( not a pun…though could be)….or something….if they had dealt with it PROPERLY first time instead of carrying this dead weight MP….then would have been a non starter as a significant ‘political’ issue from Paul Sweeney…but so arrogant are they that they thought groper was protected by his uber Boris allegiance and thus it would just…go away…after all…the media were never going to dig it up again..were they? Duh !

    Reap what one sows….am a bit gutted…as wanted to see him get his arse handed to him on a plate on election night…it’s like a criminal being given a suspended sentence and a fine as opposed to JAIL time…some other person above thought Davidson may step up….you know nothing would surprise me…she would be toiling though to follow Groper….surely she would want a ‘safer’ seat……though would be her revenge upon disloyal ROSS…who forgot who was the BOSS…his LOSS…frankly could not care a TOSS…old Tory same as the new Tory….peas and pods.

  294. galamcennalath says:

    Nicola earlier on Sky …

  295. Arthur C says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    3 November, 2019 at 6:43 pm

    You’re welcome Kid.

  296. Joe says:

    @ HYUFD

    Boris Johnson IS moderate compared to Spanish (socialist govt, btw). Just did a year there self employed and it felt like prison. Working people treated like sht. All that counts is feeding the giant incompetent state and paying the incompetent state workers their salaries. Utterly hate the place with a vengeance.

  297. Bobp says:

    Galamcennalath. Lots of vile proudscotbuts there ingratiating themselves to their southern masters on that forum.

  298. Joe says:

    @ Breeks

    The reason the catalans can motivate their people so well compared to Scotland is because the Spanish establishment are nigh on totalitarian and Scots have it very easy by comparison. Franco might be gone but his presence is still felt

  299. HYUFD says:

    Joe Don’t disagree their and it leads from Spanish polls like there will be a swing from the Socialists to the opposition conservative Popular Party in the Spanish general election next Sunday even if the Socialists cling onto power in another hung parliament

  300. Joe says:

    @ HYUFD

    Yup. Its why I think of Spain as a banana republic but without the benefit of the bananas or a republic. If it wasnt for northern countries money going there through the EU it would look like a banana republic too

  301. HYUFD says:

    Joe Spain is not yet in as bad a place economically as Greece has been after the crash but is still suffering from relatively high unemployment like much of southern Europe and has had faced a challenge to cut its deficit

  302. galamcennalath says:

    Bobp says:

    Lots of vile proudscotbuts there ingratiating themselves to their southern masters on that forum.

    After Indy has been achieved, how many of them will up sticks and move south to enjoy Brexited England’s out-of-EU supposed dividends, and how many will stay in Scotland to benefit from secure public services and free to all SNHS?

  303. dadsarmy says:

    What do you get if you cross a FUD with a FUD?

  304. dadsarmy says:

    Complete and utter FUDDISH!

    Boom boom 🙂

  305. Simon Curran says:

    Johnson going on about once in a generation guff. Why isn’t he called out on that? IIRC that was simply a personal opinion voiced by Alex Salmond. So does Boris not know that ( in which case he is ignorant) or he does know it and is a liar? Wish someone would challenge him on that and not let him get away with it.

  306. Fergus Green says:

    Inspiring paragraph from Paul Kavanagh:

    ‘Scotland demands fairness. We are the children of the Highlands and the Lowlands, of those who stepped off a plane from Pakistan, a boat from Belfast, a coach from Krakow, we are Jock Tamson’s bairns. We insist upon equality of opportunity, of respect for migrants, for tolerance and openness. We assert our right as the people of the rainy hills and the windswept lochs, the people of the sandstone and the granite, the people of the muddy bogs and the bustling streets, to determine our own future, to choose our own path, to decide our own priorities. And we choose a Scotland that is open to the world, that makes friendships and alliances with other nations as an equal. We choose a Scotland that speaks for peace, not a land that’s merely a quiescent subordinate of a Westminster that treats us as a possession, a bonny bauble to prettify the British crown, a convenient parking place for the nuclear viagra of an impotent empire. This is our Scotland, not Boris Johnson’s’

  307. callmedave says:

    @Simon Curran

    Of course he knows that as do the MSM and the dogs in the street.

    Just like Jeremy’s ‘once in a generation’ call to the people darn Sarf re: the Labour GE manifesto last week…

    In the end it wont matter if enough Scots vote SNP for the GE and more importantly for any future Holyrood elections, for without a majority of ‘independent minded’ MSPs in Scotland ‘independence will be gone’ (It’s what Stu says about the list seats)

    Its a fragile balance the Scottish Holyrood elections, just one slip and it’s gone.

  308. kapelmeister says:


    You say Johnson has “ruled out” an independence referendum.

    Prime ministers in a democracy are there to govern, not to rule.

  309. ElGordo says:

    Johnson didn’t rule out agreeing to a referendum.

    Watch the interview from 14:40

    Very obviously avoided ruling it out.

    Ridge then called him out on not ruling it out.

  310. mike cassidy says:

    I see a couple of our favourite trolls are tagteaming.

    If you ever wondered what Joe and Hyfud looked like

  311. ElGordo says:

    Labours position, Rebecca Long Bailey, today on Ridge:

    “If the Scottish Government legislated for it we wouldn’t stand in their way”

    So both Cons and Labour not committing to blocking indyref

  312. dadsarmy says:

    I see Boris Johnson is in danger of losing his seat. What would be even funnier is if he got deselected first 🙂

  313. ElGordo says:

    From 3:20 on youtube for Labours Position

  314. Bob Mack says:


    I suggest we call him ELMER from now on in replies___if you must.

  315. ElGordo says:

    Nics interview on Ridge when asked about Johnson’s position on indyref from 1:00

    Nic doesn’t seem particularly concerned about his position.

    Neither am I, it’s coming.

  316. dadsarmy says:

    For those of us in safe SNP Westminster seats, which in theory isn’t me in Ayrshire North & Arran, is it too late to get a postal vote somehow in Uxbridge and vote for Ali Milani (Labour)? Seems like a decent guy.

  317. mike cassidy says:

    Report from Johnson’s constituency.

    Probably wishful thinking.

    But it would be funny.

    “[Johnson] has no connections to this area other than as a platform for him to get to No 10. At the time it was a safe seat for him, though not any more.”

  318. dakk says:


    UK incompetent bloated public sector is far worse than Spain’s.

    Recent example being the London Fire Chief taking £2 million early retirement pension after the Grenfell horror.

    Britnat apologists have no shame and no self awareness.

    Arrogant and ignorant to the core.

  319. mike cassidy says:

    dadsarmy 9.39

    I’m sure you can just identify as an uxbridgian these days!

    If somebody objects

    Just report them as transphobic.

  320. dakk says:

    Oh,and their core is not very deep.

    Very shallow characters.

  321. ElGordo says:

    Swinson was not asked about indyref on Ridge, as although she is a once a month fly in Scotch MP (for now), with the unnatural ability to prolong the vowels of her last syllables to eternity, possibly in an attempt to soothe the opening whhhhiiiine, her and her parties position on this is completely irrelevant.

    (She always comes across as a morph of Kezia and Ruth to me, in order to emulate she has taken the worst out of each)

    However, she was asked about her integrity in campaigning, and visibly withered in the spotlight, well candle light to be fair, of some very soft questioning.

    From 7:35

  322. ElGordo says:

    Swinson tried to put a brave face on the interview when caught on camera leaving the Ridge studio today:

  323. Sinky says:

    Bbc tv news again gets the snp’s name wrong and shows a ragbag of marchers rather than Nicola Sturgeon while Jo Swinson shown as professional looking leader.

    How do they get away with this

  324. Golfnut says:

    @Joe and Hyfud.

    Thanks for pointing how bad living in a totalitarian state would be, and since its fairly well commonly accepted that England is creeping ever closure to outright fascism and therefore totalitarianism, we assume you will support our efforts to get out of this union with England.
    Thanks in anticipation.

    We tend to forget that we went through all this Section 30 refusal nonsense with Cameron and the media once before, a man who spent a great deal of time never actually refusing it, just the media and experts saying he would refuse it, and I’m pretty certain nobody promised to die in a ditch. Sound familiar, yes, I thought so to.

    Of course it’s not certain that if in the unlikely event that Johnson does refuse to agree terms that any court in the UK would be competent to accept any petition challenging his decision. The Lord President in McCormack v Lord Advocate 1953 was of the opinion that no court in UK had jurisdiction to rule on the Treaty of Union since there was no previous precedent. What tends to be forgotten is that the ‘right ‘ of the People of Scotland is enshrined in the Articles of Union, and it is that ‘Right’ which Johnston would be denying. The ‘ right of the People of Scotland has f#ck all to do with devolution and the Scotland Acts.

  325. manandboy says:

    Only a Downing Street turbo-charged 24/7 cover-up campaign can get PMJohnson through to December 12.

    Boris Johnson is a criminally corrupt politician.

    “you can fool some of the people all of the time, and they’re the ones you want to concentrate on”

    England will soon decide its future. It will either be to favour the wealthy and screw the poor – or vote Remain in the EU.

    Here’s hoping No voting Scotland will come to its senses.

  326. Heart of Galloway says:


    That’s true, although Bailey did preface Labour’s *definite* policy positiom on IR2 with “after the next ScotGov elections”.

    There seems a staggering ignorance south of the Tweed a) that the ScotGov already has a mandate for IR2; b) that it will hold the vote next year sometime in the warm months and c) legislation conferring power on the ScotGov to hold IR2 will receive Queen’s assent within weeks.

    For Sophie Ridge to press Bailey on these points would have to mean that she is clued up on these salient facts.

    She obviously isn’t. Or at least, it would seem so.

    On the other hand, if she IS aware of the mandate and the Scottish Referendums Bill, the question arises as to why she did not raise these issues during the interview.

    Maybe something to with not mentioning anything associated with putting power to decide Scotland’s future in Scotland’s hands? Surely not!

  327. Mist001 says:

    This is my THIRD time of posting this. Let’s see if anybody actually reads it and pays attention. Johnson openly, publicly admits that there will be Indyref2 NEXT year:

    WOW!! Boris Johnson openly admitted the possibility of Scottish Independence!!

    “The alternative is for the people of this country to spend the next year, which should be a glorious year, going through the toxic, tedious torpor of two more referendums – on EU membership and Scottish independence – thanks to Jeremy Corbyn’s incessant indecision.”

  328. galamcennalath says:

    BBC tonight referring to the SNP as the Scottish NationalIST Party.

    We should start calling the BritNat entities the Conservatory and Awning Party, the Laborious Party, and the Libido Demolition Party.

  329. at last after months of wasted time, something useful from Wings

  330. Effijy says:

    Good old propaganda BBC. lol
    Their fake interviewer with Boris enquires about an S30
    Bojo advises that Scotland was told it was once in a lifetime?

    Who told us it was once in a lifetime?
    Who has the right to tell a sovereign nation?
    Was this ever put on any statute books?

    Where was the question asking Boris about criminal
    Proceedings pending against him and the Brexit gang?

    Although the story has absolutely nothing to do with the Unionist
    Knuckle Draggers at the Freedom Square Rally the BBC put on
    A lovely wee video of them covering their faces while shouting abuse
    And waving their wee butcher’s apron flags
    Pathetic of the Beeb and the 1690 loonies.

  331. ElGordo says:


    Your post at 11:24am was on the meme.

    Your post at 8:06pm was on insufficient numbers at indy rally & comparison with Catalonia
    Your post at 8:27pm was a correction on previous numbers at rally

    Your post at 9:27pm was when you quoted “Boris Johnson”.

    Your post at 10:00pm today was the first time you said you had watched “Sturgeons” speech and compared her to Trump.

    “Having watched the video of Sturgeons speech today, it struck me that there’s not much difference between her appearance on stage and Trump. All she was missing was some crap AOR American rock music and fireworks. She came on like a rock star but slipped into minister mode when she said ‘We are gathered here today…’!!”

    From previous thread:
    Your post on 1st Nov at 12:30pm was supportive of Greens standing in SNP marginal seats.
    “The Greens are as much entitled to field candidates as any other party. They don’t care if they split the vote or harm the Indy cause and why should they? They have their own agenda to take care of”

  332. HYUFD says:

    Golfnut Boris would just point out Cameron granted a referendum 5 years ago in which Scots rejected independence and that would stand as the verdict of the exercise of the ‘right’ of the people of Scotland. The 2014 referendum was only possible as the government at Westminster agreed to it and to recognise its verdict

  333. Capella says:

    They keep asking Boris Johnston and Jeremy Corbyn the S30 question to give the impression that it is somehow up to them to grant or withhold “permission”.

    @ galamcennalath – we could call them the “nationalist broadcaster” which is clearly what they are if they can’t use the SNP name properly. Pathetic fools.

  334. ElGordo says:

    The Northern Ireland Act 1998, a statute of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, provides that Northern Ireland will remain within the United Kingdom unless a majority of the people of Northern Ireland vote to form part of a united Ireland. It specifies that the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

    “shall exercise the power [to hold a referendum] if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”. Such referenda may not take place within seven years of each other.[18]

  335. Joe says:


    When it comes to being told what is what by Westminster r.e referenda the majority of the indy movement are childishly unaware of the precedents that have been set by Remain campaigners and conditions that will be required to stop the ‘kind of constitutional chaos we suffered after the Brexit referendum’

  336. Joe says:

    @ Manandboy

    Either vote for the wealthy and screw the poor, or remain in the EU? So Greek pensioners didnt die under EU imposed austerity? Great news! Heres hoping that we’ll find out that most of the details of the holocaust are fabricated too:)

  337. Joe says:

    @ golfnut

    I support democratic will and democratic outcomes. Unlike many in the SNP. I could live anywhere in Europe. Im in the UK for a reason. Just as people literally march across europe to try to cross the channel risking life and limb to be here. Sorry if that messes with the ‘hard done by’ narrative

  338. Golfnut says:

    @ Hyfud.

    Try and find an adult to walk you through the significant aspect of my post, rather than just talking Shiite.

  339. Golfnut says:

    @ Joe.


  340. Joe says:

    @ Golfnut

    Im a democrat, so yes i do support Scottish right to self determination.

    Also – the UK is still a very good place to be for most people. Simple enough for you?

  341. ElGordo says:


    2010 to 2018 Life expectancy

    Greece from 80.44 to 81.98 = +1.54
    UK from 80.16 to 81.15 = +0.99

    Greece 50% improvement on life expectancy than UK during this period.

    Ireland 80.5 to 82.05 = +1.55

    Ireland massive banking recession….
    current Ireland GDP per capita = 69.5k USD
    current UK GDP per capita = 39.5k USD

    30k USD or 23k GBP per person

    And remember this includes the “London” financial services effect on GDP per capita in UK.

    So can reasonably assume that the ordinary person in Ireland has twice as much as the ordinary person in the UK.

    With very limited natural resources in Ireland in comparison to Scotland.

  342. Joe says:

    @ El gordo

    Oh no. Dont knock me out with facts. I cant take it.

    What about Ireland being a bit of a tax haven for corporations? It does help, especially with small population:) Uk couldnt do that because the clueless left would have a fit

  343. Joe says:

    Also ive noticed – anytime someone says something that people dont like here they assume you are a Scotland denigrating ‘yoon’. I know Scotland is rich. Im just saying that life in the UK is better than the vast majority of people on earth have it, and much of Europe.

  344. ElGordo says:

    Scotland has the lowest life expectancy in Europe

    Deaths due to UK Gov austerity measures are 30k across the UK.

    Thanks for the Greek comparison, tho bit of a wooden horse.

  345. Joe says:

    @ El Gordo

    No wooden horse. Just cold hard fact. I dont know why Scotland has such a low life expectancy. It could never be down to crap diet, booze, no exercise could it? I mean, im sure that tax payer funded NHS must be simply wiping people out by the droves. Poor things

  346. ElGordo says:

    @JOE, quite happy if you quote facts and link to sources

    The UK is ranked 15th in GDP per capita in Europe, not taking into consideration concentration of wealth in London.

    It is ranked last of the 28 countries in the European Union by life expectancy:

  347. Joe says:

    Sorry for multiple posts – but ever since ive lived in very poor (5 dollar per day wage) countries ive wanted to be physically sick when people with free education, free healthcare, good police, welfare, jobs everywhere start whining about how difficult it is in the UK. Its not difficult to live in the UK. It just could be better quite easily.

  348. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Joe @ 23:57:

    I support democratic will and democratic outcomes. Unlike many in the SNP.

    What utter self-serving tosh. If you were a real democrat, you would willingly recognise that it’s your own anti-EU views that are manifestly unrepresentative, not those of the SNP.

    If you really cared, you would actively support the SNP’s attempt to achieve electoral progress as a means of taking independence another important step forward, and keep your personal reservations for a time when the matter of EU membership becomes a truly sovereign issue, as I expect it will. Knowing all the while that your view is unlikely in the event to prevail. But that’s real democracy, to which you are clearly a complete stranger.

    Instead you snipe from the sidelines, ducking and diving, spreading your own brand of toxin, a slightly more weaselly operator than Lord Hee Haw, but clearly with the same purpose.

    You’re no friend of independence, diversion artist.

  349. Golfnut says:

    @ Joe.

    I think its sad, that after ranting on about how bad Spain is, you appear to be unable to visualise bad the UK is going to be after Brexit, and that will effect ‘ most ‘ people. Setting that aside though, a state is judged by the way it treats the most vulnerable in society, the poor, disabled, the sick. Not on how it treats most people.

  350. Joe says:

    @ El Gordo

    You have to rank by population size v GDP per capita. Comparing small populations to large ones with GDP per capita isnt very telling. There are many small pop countries that can maneouver themselves to do very well..and attract wealth.

  351. ElGordo says:

    The UK is ranked way down the press freedom index, ranked below Ghana, Namibia, Costa Rica and Jamaica:

    The UK is ranked as one of the worst countries in the OECD for income inequality, Russia has a better income equality ranking.

  352. Joe says:

    @ Robet J Sutherland

    Im no friend of the indy movement by and large. My disgust has grown over the years. The right for Scottish self determination is solid as rock. Its the halfwit progressives that have become the face of it that are the problem, and why you struggle to hold more than 50% of the vote

  353. Joe says:

    @ El gordo

    In that case you will have moved out? Or are in the process? Why stick around in such a hell hole? 😉

  354. Joe says:

    @ Golfnut

    Life after Brexit will be just as bad as life after Scottish independence. Didnt you know that? I mean its the same stories from the same media after all. Right?

  355. ElGordo says:


    I did,

    Denmark: Pop= 5.7m , GBP Per Capita = 56.3k
    Finland: Pop= 5.5m, GDP Per Capita = 45.7k
    UK/Scotland: Pop= 5.4m, GDP Per Capita = 39.5k
    Norway: Pop= 5.3m, GBP Per Capita = 75.5k
    Ireland: Pop= 4.8m, GDP Per Capita = 69.5k

    Alas remember we have to reduce the GBP per Capita in Scotland due to that London Financial Services bounce..

    Any particular countries standouts to you?

  356. Joe says:

    @ El Gordo

    In that case well done. But as I said – im not arguing against Scotlands potential. So we are pretty much agreed that small countries can do very well for themselves. Excellent.

  357. Joe says:

    @ Robert J Sutherland

    I mean this with the best intent but how is it that with lying bojo, looming brexit, utterly crap politicians leading every UK party and experiences of lies in the 1st referendum that Scotland doesnt consistently have a massive majority for indy? Its not because they are all yoon idiots. The reason is closer to home

  358. ElGordo says:

    The UK state pension is the worst in the developed world, according to data from Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

    As a percentage of average earnings, the UK government pays out 29 per cent, putting it at the bottom of a table which is led by the Netherlands, which pays 100.6 per cent, Portugal, which offers 94 per cent, and Italy, which gives 93.2 per cent

    Rank / Country / % of average earnings
    1 Netherlands 100.6%
    2 Portugal 94.9%
    3 Italy 93.2%
    4 Austria 91.8%
    5 Spain 81.8%
    24 UK 29%

    OECD average 62.9%

    The measure of any society….

    Ireland State Pension = 12,912 EUR
    UK State Pension = 6718 GBP / 7,780 EUR (60% of Ireland)

    Ireland Unemployment Benefit Ireland (basic) = 203 EUR
    UK Unemployment Benefit = 71.70 / 83 EUR (31% of Ireland)

  359. ElGordo says:

    And all that extra pension and unemployment benefit cash gets recycled back through the economy, gathering taxes along the way, rather than parked, redundant, tax free, in someones offshore bank account.

  360. ElGordo says:

    So Joe, as above, life in the UK is significantly worse than much of Europe.

    Is there any other measure you would like to compare?

    Joe says:
    4 November, 2019 at 12:20 am

    Also ive noticed – anytime someone says something that people dont like here they assume you are a Scotland denigrating ‘yoon’. I know Scotland is rich. Im just saying that life in the UK is better than the vast majority of people on earth have it, and much of Europe

  361. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Joe @ 00:49:

    Im no friend of the indy movement […] The right for Scottish self determination is solid as rock.

    Theoretical “self-determination” in a total vacuum, one presumably still very much under the control of an increasingly-overbearing and unapologetic EngNat London. That will do us sufficiently, think ye?

    You must really believe we’re idiots to entertain any more of your diversionary drivel.

  362. Dorothy Devine says:

    Why are you all replying to the shape shifter?

    Left to their own devices they might get bored and vanish into the Scottish mist.

    As for the BBBC – what can one say?

    The sooner Scotland is independent the sooner the media will re-adjust and some semblance of honesty , integrity and impartiality will emerge.

  363. Robert Louis says:

    Fergus green at 838pm,

    Thanks for highlighting that piece from Paul Kavanagh (wee ginger dug). It is worth re-iterating here (since the overnight comments above on here, have been nothing but sh*te, anyway).

    ‘We assert our right as the people of the rainy hills and the windswept lochs, the people of the sandstone and the granite, the people of the muddy bogs and the bustling streets, to determine our own future, to choose our own path, to decide our own priorities. And we choose a Scotland that is open to the world, that makes friendships and alliances with other nations as an equal. We choose a Scotland that speaks for peace, not a land that’s merely a quiescent subordinate of a Westminster that treats us as a possession, a bonny bauble to prettify the British crown, a convenient parking place for the nuclear viagra of an impotent empire. This is our Scotland, not Boris Johnson’s’.’

  364. AndyH says:

    Don’t listen to the Yoon BS merchants.

    Indy figures can (and have) only go up.

    Tick tock goes the onions clock.

    Kneeling, snivelling lickspittles.

  365. Golfnut says:

    @ Robert Louis.

    Overnight comments were sh#te.

    There was nothing sh#te about the comments from ElGordo or RJS.

    If you are going to denigrate contributions, you should at least have the courage to be specific.

  366. Famous15 says:

    I wonder what misdirection Joe and HYFUD are to be given today in the “Brigade” morning meeting?

  367. Heart of Galloway says:

    A view from France – a balanced perceptive article containing the below statement of fact, absolutely integral to the independence debate, which you will never hear from the MSM.

    “Toutefois le Brexit est intervenu entre-temps… En 2014, l’un des arguments en faveur du maintien de l’Ecosse dans le Royaume-Uni était que, en cas de scission, cette nation perdrait les avantages de l’appartenance à l’Union européenne. Et deux ans plus tard, au référendum de juin 2016 sur le Brexit, 62 % des Ecossais se sont opposés au départ du Royaume-Uni de l’Union européenne.”

    (Very) rough translation: “However, Brexit has intervened meantime…in 2014 one of the arguments for keeping Scotland in the U.K. was that if secession was to happen, the nation would lose the advantages of EU membership.

    “Yet two years later, in the June 2016 referendum on Brexit, 62 per cent of Scots opposed the UK’s departure from the EU.”

    Full article:

  368. Abulhaq says:

    In Wales, PC, LibDems & Greens are planning an electoral pact ‘to deny Tories seats’, the SNP wouldn’t be so rash, would it?

  369. HYUFD says:

    Heart of Galloway We must fight for independence from London to win dependence from Brussels is not much of an argument and given the only polls putting Yes ahead in Scotland are with No Deal which the Boris Deal avoids Brexit is not a major change anyway

  370. Capella says:

    The Chief Executive of some hotel chain is having an affair with an employee and has been sacked. BBC R Scotland considers this such an important issue that they are devoting air time to interviewing a spokesperson from the hotel chain.


  371. Effijy says:


    You really do make a complete fool of yourself!
    Brexit isn’t a major change? lol

    It does come second to World War 2 though.

    Get yourself down George Square with a Butcher’s Apron and Whistle ya numpty!

  372. Abulhaq says:

    If only that 62% equated to support for independence.
    Quelle ‘union’ est la plus avantageuse, et à qui les avantages?
    Independence ought not to be about such ‘advantages’, it is an advantage in its own right.

  373. Capella says:

    Ha ha – as I was typing the above comment R Scotland suddenly went dead, silent, zilch. The other stations are still broadcasting. Maybe some demented employee just pulled out the plug in despair.

  374. HYUFD says:

    El Gordo Wrong Russia is 78th highest for income inequality, the UK 105th

  375. HYUFD says:

    The UK also has higher life expectancy thsn Belgium, Finland, Portugal, Greece, Germany to name but a few

  376. Sinky says:

    Take the Scotland the Brief Quiz here

    Worth passing onto undecideds and soft nos.

    We need more of this stuff as it is never covered on our TV channels.

  377. Capella says:

    R Scotland has sprung back to life you’ll be delighted to hear. We are still on Sport, Travel and Weather. Unfortunately it’s Call Kaye next so I will have to go and switch it off myself.

    A picture is worth a thousand words – this one certainly is – Eva Bolander forced to resign as Lord Provost of Glasgow by media witch hunt. Barney Crockett still in post and no media outcry:

  378. jfngw says:

    I presume now the BBC News has decided that the SNP stands for the Scottish Nationalist Party they will from now on prefix the other parties. The Fascist leaning Conservative Party, the Semitic Labour Party, the double-dealing Liberal Democratic Party and the undemocratic Brexit Party (it is really just a one man band with acolytes, remove Farage and it disintegrates).

    We will see in the next few weeks if the broadcasters are UK broadcasters or basically English broadcasters. If we have to endure a head to head with the second and third parties in Scotland on our screens then the question will be answered. It’s may then be time to contemplate whether I want to continue financing another countries broadcasting.

  379. Joe says:

    @ El Gordo

    Im using a mobile only for WOS these days so cant provide links or much of an answer but much of what you are saying has more detail to consider. e.g spain state pension comes at the cost of you paying through the nose. Theres a caveat to most of what you are saying. Fundamentally dishonest surface arguments.

  380. Joe says:

    @ Robert J Sutherland

    Well bob, all i can say is they should put you in a kilt and hoist you on a pole as the indy mascot at rallys. You are a nice representation for an increasingly hysterical and self defeating movement

  381. Joe says:

    @ HYUFD

    Correct on Brexit. What Boris has cobbled together is brexit in name only really. Still, it does get some fun outbursts from the pro EU munchkins so its fun til the truth arrives

  382. ElGordo says:

    @HYFUD at 8:51pm

    The income inequality (GINI) data you are referencing in that link is from 2014 (UK) and 2015 (Russia).

    In the original link i posted the OECD GINI data is from 2017 (UK) and 2016 (Russia).

    Tho, your old data table is a good reference to the 53 countries that are more equal than the UK and the increasing inequality in the UK from 2014 to 2017.

  383. ElGordo says:

    @HiFUD at 8:54

    Using your data in the link you posted, Scotland has lower life expectancy than the countries you referenced.

    Country Female Male
    Scotland 81.1 77.0
    Belgium 83.5 78.6
    Finland 83.8 78.3
    Portugal 83.9 78.2
    Greece 83.6 78.3
    Germany 83.4 78.7

  384. @HYUFD,

    the up to date World Life Expectency list 2019 has Belgium, Finland, Portugal, Greece,to name but a few,now having longer life expectency than dear old Blighted,

    dear old Blighted is going the wrong way,

    28 countries with higher life expectancy than dear old Blighted,

    your Tory austerity is decimating the citizens of UK,

    your Tory austerity is a war crime,

    your Tory austerity is nothing more than a copy of the Nazi Aktion T4,

    it also mirrors the Spartan way ,much loved by the Eton education system.

  385. jfngw says:

    The latest British question is should there be a second confirmatory referendum on the dissolution deal. Well I’m happy to have a second referendum on the deal, we either accept it or go for no deal (I’d prefer a EU deal first as it would pretty much fix our trading relationship anyway). Once Scotland has spoken, England is then effectively a foreign country and should have no say in any further proceedings in Scotland.

  386. ElGordo says:

    Joe says:
    4 November, 2019 at 9:19 am
    Im using a mobile only for WOS these days so cant provide links or much of an answer but much of what you are saying has more detail to consider. e.g spain state pension comes at the cost of you paying through the nose. Theres a caveat to most of what you are saying. Fundamentally dishonest surface arguments.


    – What type of mobile are you using that doesn’t automatically change “im” to “i’m”, “cant” to “can’t”, “Theres to “There’s” or “spain” to “Spain” when posting comments? A special phone that is not available to the general public?

    – If you can’t provide much of an answer, is there really any point in persisting?

  387. jeff says:

    HYFUD says:
    “4 November, 2019 at 8:40 am
    Heart of Galloway We must fight for independence from London to win dependence from Brussels is not much of an argument..”

    Tosser. The EU won’t steal all our money/oil revenues etc. nor will they dump nuclear warhead stockpiles in our country.

  388. gus1940 says:


    A crowdfunder has been launched to save the Edinburgh Gorgie City Farm which is threatened with closure.

    It can be accessed by holding your nose and entering the relevant news item in the Edinburgh Evening News.

    This is a good cause well deserving of support and it would be a tragedy if it had to close.

  389. Joe says:

    @ El Gordo
    Thanks for the tips. Now ill give you 1 – using raw economic numbers can make you look silly if you dont consider other underlying factors. Such as GDP per capita having much correlation with the average person. Or raw pension number without considering contibutions.

  390. galamcennalath says:

    Here’s another big difference between the EU Union and the UK Union….

    In the 2016 EURef, the EU largely stayed out of the internal UK debate. They kept quiet. They didn’t interfere. They, quite correctly, left the constitutional decision up to the people of the UK.

    Now, contrast that with UK interference in IndyRef1. The UK DID NOT leave the debate and decision up to Scots. They were extremely vocal. They campaigned vigorously on the NO side. Full of entitlement and exceptionalism they believed they had some sort of right to get so deeply involved.

    A Tale of Two Unions indeed.

  391. ElGordo says:


    In response to your comments on how lucky we all are to live under the UK Government compared to much of Europe, these measures were used to inform your ignorance:

    Wealth : GDP per capita
    Health : Life Expectancy
    Security/Care : Pensions & Social Security
    Equality/Fairness: Income Inequality Ranking Information/Control: Press Freedom Index

    Which measures & metrics would you prefer to use to demonstrate the absolute magnificence of the UK’s governance of us ungrateful jocks?

  392. manandboy says:


    The vote on December 12th, may be secure and reliable, apart from postal votes, but one thing is certain, which is that the CAMPAIGN will be totally corrupted by the same people and organisations who now effectively influence or control elections worldwide.

    PsyOps, psychological operations, used to be restricted to wars. But in recent years, psychological warfare is meat and drink to the election-rigging industry, in which the Tory Party is a fully paid up member.
    Brazen lies, without limit, will be spread throughout every media platform, in order to choke the truth and prevent the electorate from getting the facts clearly and without interference.
    And much of it will be done without the public even being aware what is happening. All of us have old TV advert jingles in our head which we can’t get rid of. Soon it will be political lies and slogans acting on our subconscious minds to influence our vote.

    “Thanks to the means we now use to communicate, what is going on is probably more complicated still. Thousands – millions? – of personalised micro-campaigns are already unfolding on people’s social media feeds, defined by many forces and voices way beyond the party machines and the traditional media, and often beyond anyone’s control.

    In the digital age, capitalism has constructed ways of blindsiding its opponents and distracting the public at large
    Two years ago, a big part of Theresa May’s undoing was the way that an avalanche of mocking memes quickly rendered her a laughing stock; similar things will happen this time, but it is not yet clear who they will affect, and how. Twitter may have suddenly banned political advertising, but that probably means there is all the more reason for plenty of actors to use the subterfuge of bots, fake accounts, and all the rest. We know that CTF Partners, the lobbying firm run by Boris Johnson’s confidant Lynton Crosby, was recently caught overseeing pro-Brexit Facebook ads purporting to be the work of grassroots activists. We know too that the Conservative party has hired people closely connected to CTF, well versed in the most slippery online campaigning techniques.”

  393. dadsarmy says:

    HYFUD uses out of date and very selective data and links.

  394. HYUFD says:

    Scott Finlayson Wrong the UK at 80.8 has a higher life expectancy than the EU average of 80.2

  395. HYUFD says:

    Jeff The EU will demand large annual payments from Scotland and once the EU army arrives who knows where France will park its nuclear weapons

  396. HYUFD says:

    El Gordo there are over 190 countries in the world and the UK is well below most of those on income inequality but what matters is GDP per capita of which the UK is well above most of them

  397. HYUFD says:

    Plus unemployment rate Greece 18%, Spain 15%, Italy 10%, France 9%, UK just 4%

  398. @HYUFD,

    your second out of date list (2017) confirms your first out of date list (2015) was out of date,

    the up to date World Life Expectency list 2019 has Belgium, Finland, Portugal, Greece,to name but a few,now having longer life expectency than dear old Blighted,

    your Tory party,through the abomination of its austerity program, has impacted on the life expectancy of the UK,

    the Tory rich are living longer but the poor and disadvantaged are dying younger through your Tory austerity program.

    Tory Austerity Act – Aktion T4

  399. Sinky says:

    ITV allowing Jo Swinson to share platform with Boris and Jeremy but no place for SNP.
    As predicted BBC Scotland using English survey figures on screen for several minutes to show that 50% think NHS is getting worse.


  400. Sinky says:

    Neither broadcaster challenge Carlaw on it was Aberdeen South CA that refused to sign Ross Thomson’s nomination papers rather than him resigning.

    BBC of course have swept it under its unionist carpet.

  401. HYUFD says:

    Scott Finlayson Well show a link to this World life expectancy chart then? Plus austerity has reduced the huge deficit Labour left in 2010

  402. Davosa says:

    Not sure this stupid, ignorant fucker Toole will go down well in Edinburgh South.

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