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Wings Over Scotland


The phantom unmasked

Posted on February 07, 2017 by

Alert readers will of course be aware that a recurring theme on this site is looking for the alleged abusive behaviour by supporters of independence which gets regularly reported in outraged terms by newspapers but is mysteriously almost never supported by any actual evidence of the supposed abuse.

Case studies are almost endless – Labour MSP Cara Hilton, sort-of comedian Susan Calman, historian and hairdressing disaster model Neil Oliver, Scottish Labour shadow cabinet member ordinary mother Claire Lally, nurse/actress Suzanne Duncan/Hunter, popular Olympian cyclist Chris Hoy, currently-resting pop singer David Bowie, tanktop enthusiast and Weetabix impersonator David Torrance, we could go on.

In every case the papers and/or alleged recipients of all these dreadful separatist haranguings screamed “VILE ABUSE!”, swooning at the horror of it all, then suddenly turned deaf and dumb when asked to provide any examples.

phantomunmasked

So we were quite surprised yesterday when a previous complainant – brutal stickering victim and lonely Scottish Labour MP Ian Murray – actually came up with the proof.

Commenting on the reappearance of wounded provocateur Stephen Daisley, who recently fulfilled a lifelong dream and joined the Daily Mail after a period of silence at STV, Murray made a serious allegation about SNP MP John Nicolson.

murraynicholson

Naturally, scores of people immediately challenged Murray to publish this letter, with Nicolson giving his swift permission to him to do so. More than 42 hours later, having somewhat painted himself into a corner, Murray did.

murrayletter

We reproduce it in full here (click to enlarge).

nicholsonmurray

Try as we might, we can’t even begin to guess which aspects of the letter Mr Murray finds “bizarre”, or containing “strange allegations”, or an attempt to “shut me down”. It’s an unfailingly polite and reasoned missive which a team of Nobel Prize-winning scientists armed with electron microscopes would struggle to detect any menace in.

Murray has offered no further comment or explanation of his claim. But we think we begin to see why his party and the media have always been so reluctant to provide evidence in support of their allegations of vile cybernattery in the past.

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  1. 07 02 17 17:58

    The phantom unmasked | speymouth

170 to “The phantom unmasked”

  1. yesindyref2 says:

    I agree with the article, but you do see incidences of Indy supporters allowing themselves to be provoked by the usual suspects. And some of them fall for it, hook line and sinker.

  2. John Jones says:

    It’s obvious! He has signed it ” yours sincerely” this must be taken as a snide remark due to it coming from the opposition

  3. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Yes, of course there are abusive comments made by people on the Yes side. It’s the internet. There were some twats ranting at Gary Robertson of BBC Scotland just this morning. The point is none is ever demonstrated in the specific examples alleged by the papers.

  4. revjimbob says:

    Oh the humanity!

  5. Orri says:

    To be fair there is an element of “Shutting Down” involved. Obviously not claiming Murray was doing anything illegal but similarities might be drawn to the way the authorities shut down smuggling, drug suppliers and so on.

    In Daisley’s case the situation was one where there was questions as to whether his use of media was in line with his employers policies or not. The letter seems clear on that. Unlike the BBC, STV have less to lose from adopting a policy of neutrality than being seen to be partisan in any way.

  6. yesindyref2 says:

    I know Rev, I’m feeling feisty today.

  7. jimnarlene says:

    I have, on occasion, told the odd Britnat, to go away; in the strongest terms.
    I don’t class it as abuse, just get annoyed by their insistence of talking pish.

  8. yesindyref2 says:

    I know Rev, I’m feeling (extra) feisty today.

  9. Proud Cybernat says:

    Ian Murray just hasn’t a Scooby-Doo!

  10. Desimond says:

    Its clear BBC luvvie John Nicholson has lifted a piece of Dr Who’s Psychic Paper and understandably Ian is seeing what he expects to see.

    He would have got away with it if it wasnt for those pesky graffiti door artists

  11. galamcennalath says:

    On a scale of 1 to 10, where Spanner’s sewerage comes in at 8, and 9-10 are reserved for threats of violence or death ….. I would rate John Nicolson’s letter as …. well …. 1.

  12. tartanfever says:

    Unfortunately we are only going to see an increase in abuse. As the polls tighten and unionists feel more threatened you can expect some ‘suspect’ incidents happening, just for the papers to highlight.

    The double whammy is of course we spend all our time denouncing the trash articles and spin whilst forgetting that our greatest weapon of persuasion, Brexit, is being ignored. There are numerous articles being published south of the border daily that just are not being repeated up here by us. Very depressing.

    If we fight the next Indyref like the last, which is looking very likely, I’m afraid to say that I think we will lose again. Letting the unionist press set the agenda once more is not the way to do it.

  13. Stoker says:

    Rev wrote:

    “Murray has offered no further comment or explanation of his claim. But we think we begin to see why his party and the media have always been so reluctant to provide evidence in support of their allegations of vile cybernattery in the past.”

    Yes, quite!

    btw, WOS archive links now over on Off Topic.

  14. Robert Peffers says:

    @Proud Cybernat says: 7 February, 2017 at 5:11 pm:

    “Ian Murray just hasn’t a Scooby-Doo!”

    Yes but all these sports people get kind of wound up now and again. One of them hit the umpire in the eye with a tennis ball the other day.

    Oh! Wait up! perhaps I was thinking about that Sir Andy Murray.

    Who is this Ian Murray guy?

    Does he play for Rangers?

    No! Wait! It was Hibs I think or perhaps Alloa or Dumbarton but he did get capped for Scotland I think.

    Or is it some other Ian Murray gadgie?.

  15. Vestas says:

    STV gave Daisley a choice.

    Like the drama queen he is he made sure his buddies in the MSM gave that a nice slant. Poor unionists, always put upon despite having the backing of the state.

    After the requisite time for his STV contract/NDA stuff to expire (3 months or so seems about right?) he turns up in the Daily Mail. What a shocker eh?

    IMHO he’s the same level of clickbait pondlife as Katie Hopkins.

  16. Dr Jim says:

    Anybody who has ever spoken with @John Nicolson will know that he is always polite and courteous to all even when he’s being firm
    This allegation was always doomed to ridiculous failure as a story before it got off the ground and Ian Murray allowed himself a moment of stupidity when he tried to weave a SNP Baad story from it (moment phew!)

    Although as a member of the SNP @John Nicolson is endowed with mysterious and magical powers over the mind and media output so “Journalists” do fear what might happen to them when the SNP get together and begin their chanting round the cauldron in their underground headquarters deep neath the bowels of Holyrood led by the evil high priestess and queen of the night Nic

    Wooohoohoo! Hubble Bubble an aw that frighteny stuff
    Former FM Salmond dances naked and everything “Fact”

  17. Frank Wright says:

    I am not sure this Wings article is completely factual..:-)

    ..I mean, can Neil Oliver really be described as a “historian”? He has an undergraduate archaeology degree, then worked as a reporter and then started writing (and appearing in) archaeology programmes for the BBC.

    Perhaps a compromise would be “amateur historian.. .etc.. Neil Oliver”?

  18. Macart says:

    Surely that letter should come with an (R) rating?

    I’ve never seen so much niceness and manners all in one place before. It’s got to be an evil ploy or code of some sort which only Mr Murray can decipher obviously.

  19. Stoker says:

    Fancy yourselves at puzzles? Want a wee trip back to childhood?
    Well, have a go at this, but be warned, it’s a tough yin.

    Spot The Difference
    http://i3.scotlandnow.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article5660266.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/MPs.jpg

  20. carjamtic says:

    Just leaving this here….#Clues

    1) Those suffering from Cognitive Dissonance — the intellectual crisis that occurs when a failed belief system or philosophy (UKOK) is confronted with proof of its implausibility.

    2) The Innumerate’s, the people who truly disrespect a legitimate process of looking at the data and making intelligent assessments. They are mathematical illiterates who embarrassingly revel in their own ignorance.

    3) The Political Manipulators, who cynically know what they peddle is nonsense, but nonetheless push the stuff because it is effective. These folks are more committed to their ideology and bonuses than the good of Scotland.

    4) The Paid Hacks, who are being paid to hold a certain view. As has been well noted, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

    “The denying of reality has been an issue, from Galileo to Columbus to modern times. Reality always triumphs eventually, but there are very real costs to it occurring later versus sooner.”…

  21. manandboy says:

    I’m wracking my brain searching for the word that describes Ian Murray MP. I’ve tried words like despicable, odious and obnoxious, but none of these fit as they are all inadequate. I shall just have to keep searching till I find the right word.

    I’m sure that whatever the word is, it will be useful, for there are many Unionist politicians just like Ian Murray. So much so in fact, that ‘politics’ itself, understood as the entire ‘industry’ which governs the UK, might justly be tarred with the same brush.

    The stench of corruption pervades the entire British Establishment.

  22. Wulls says:

    Actually it was abusive.
    Asking a politician , especially one as slippery as Murray straight out if he agrees with something is an appalling thing to do.
    This abuses his mental health, integrity and inbuilt loathing of all things honest at the same time.
    Appalling behaviour 🙂

  23. dakk says:

    ‘ Or is it some other Ian Murray gadgie?.’

    Aye.It is Robert.

    It’s the wee fat BritNat MP liar fae Embra.

  24. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ach, this kind of thing goes back to the indyref. Smear indy supporters just to scare the “soft-noes” and keep them onside.

    Murphy and his little soap-box circus turn just begging for the Scottish Resistance to show up and make his day.

    Brainless Spammer set up specifically to provoke pro-indy invective that can then be dutifully recycled by “pure as the driven snow” Jakey and Co. to use for the exact same purpose. Denigration by association.

    The Unionists don’t give a jot about the truth of any of it. It’s all about denial of credibility. Make your opponents look like angry fruitloops so their arguments are discredited and don’t need to be countered.

  25. Stoker says:

    BTW, folks, the link in my comment post at 5:54pm is not a direct link to The dirty Redcoat so it’s perfectly safe to click on it.
    😉

  26. I can’t let you away with the claim that Neil Oliver is a historian. He is a battlefield archaeologist by trade. He is certainly not an authority on history.

  27. chris kilby says:

    He’d have got away with it too if it wasn’t for those pesky, meddling facts.

  28. louis.b.argyll says:

    Jeepers, imagine if this Murray guy was your MP.

    Imagine getting him to act on your behalf, say, on a planning issue.

    You’d never know if his hidden lies and deliberate misdirection would turn ‘your’ case into a personal embarrassment.

    Wouldn’t mind if he was a quick-witted legal eagle, thinking on his feet..but he’s not that..and luckily not my MP.

    Apparently, house prices have dipped in Morningside – since he moved in, and crime is up.
    See, I too can make up badly punctuated stuff that sounds true.

  29. yesindyref2 says:

    OT mostly. Shame to waste this as it was a last post on a now quiet thread on the National. Won’t post here till a few posts in.

    ————————–
    There’s people all over the place minutely examining opinion polls and coming it with categories that voted NO.

    But these are indicative at best, NOT definitive. A standard poll will have say 1020 respondents, which gives a 3% margin of error. But if the YES vote is 46% that does NOT mean the range will be say 43% to 49% and that’s it. It’s within a 95% probablility, which means within a 5% probability it could be 40% or 60%. It could even be 99% YES, though incredibly unlikely. Highly desirable all the same.

    But worse than that, the poll encompasses males and females and makes roughly 50% each, but then age groups which is much less than 50% each. Then social category, and nationaility.

    So for instance for “English” people polled who represent 10% of the population of Scotland, the opinion poll will have the effective responses of just 100 people. 100 people. THAT gives a margin of error and I can’t be bothered working it out, of say 10%. And still only within a probablity of 95%.

    So if 60 of those hundred of the dreaded “English” people are down for NO, it could range from 70% to 50% of them within that 95% probability.

    But within a 5% probability it could be 100% of them NO – or 100% of them YES.

    Far too much is made of the micro detail of these opinion polls, the spread means these are micro-statistics, and therefore highly unreliable.

    Rant over from an ex-statistician! Errors & Omissions Excepted.

    Oh, I forgot to say. That’s all even presuming it’s a normal distribution. It might not be. And people who can be bothered answering polls might not even represent the population at large, in fact, they likely don’t. Within a 95% probability of course.
    —————–

  30. c rober says:

    Hope he doesnt go into a Daily Mail , Express article with anything about Scotland , Indy or Scottish people in General then , or he would be on the vallium chasers.

  31. Suzanne says:

    @tartanfever

    The double whammy is of course we spend all our time denouncing the trash articles and spin whilst forgetting that our greatest weapon of persuasion, Brexit, is being ignored.

    I rather think you’re right. While there is of course a necessity not to let the more troublesome brutes get away with all their misinformation and deliberate lies, our main focus must be on reaching those who are wavering on the sidelines. They will be watching as the online skirmishes unfold, and I think if we carry on by mirroring the tone of John’s excellent letter, we will attract more honeybees than hornets.

  32. Lollysmum says:

    Look-you have to consider Murray’s previous form. He’s the one who went off the deep end when some sweet & mild indy supporter stuck two Yes stickers on his office door frame. What does the pillock do? Reports it to the police as criminal damage. Such an overreaction was absolutely pathetic back then & comes back to bite him every so often.

    This time he slipped up-he published the letter that John Nicolson dared to send to him. Oh the shame of it-Murray’s just proved to the world that he’s both paranoid & incapable of determining just what constitutes abuse. I suggest Murray shuts up-he’s seriously ‘lost face’ this time. At the rate he’s going he’ll be getting more laughs than Frankie Boyle but the laughter is aimed at him rather than laughing with him. So sad 🙂

    Mr Nicolson-good stuff -keep writing those letters & thank you for the laughs along the way.

  33. Thepnr says:

    Brexit is far from being neglected on Wings. You couldn’t have the Rev posting Brexit articles day after day. Not if he wanted to keep people reading you couldn’t.

    There are absolutely screeds of btl comments on Brexit on almost every article and you can be sure that Nana will provide at least 4 or more links to other sources of debate, discussion or opinion on Brexit almost everyday.

    As for a adjective for Ian Murray? Detestable works for me, works for Stephen Daisley, Brian Spanner, David Torrence and Andrew Neil too.

    Yes, that’s how I feel about those that would denigrate their country in the way they do. For what? For their own greed.

  34. louis.b.argyll says:

    True fact.
    Neil Oliver is an archaeologist.

    True fact.
    Hé présents averagely normal BBC history programmes while ADDING his own UNDER-QUALIFIED opinions.

    True fact.
    His opinions suit the political direction of the BBC.

    True fact.
    He is a Unionist.

    ..always trying to underplay the clear theft by England, of our historic right to protect (all of) our identity.

    The way we trade,
    the way we use our wealth,
    the way we defend ourselves,
    the way we choose our strategies..
    these ways, are ALSO our identity.

    All currently reserved to our big brother.

    HE holds the INHERITED purse strings and doesn’t want us to get that promotion..
    .. or make friends with anyone that they have ever quarrelled with.

    I fear for the ‘moderate’ English types, and what the ruling classes are capable of, now that they have controlled the brownshirts of ukip.

  35. robertknight says:

    Poor Ian, the man cuts a lonely figure.

    Meets with Labour MSPs and gets the “yer nae wan o us” treatment.

    Meets with Labour MPs and gets the “you’re not one of us” treatment.

    Meets with Labour MEPs and gets the “who the f*** are you?” treatment.

    Just as well his secretary is busy writing to his constituents about closing Post Offices. At least a few replies might make him feel wanted by someone.

  36. yesindyref2 says:

    In the scheme of things for Independence John Nicolson, Ian Murray and Steven Daisley aren’t important, but the media is. The media people still rely on for the “truth”. It’s “Truth” Jim, but not as we know it!

    The media have been full of “Daisley shut up by the SNP”, “SNP put pressure on STV”, and this latest from Murray just reinforces that in people’s casual minds. Nicolson Bad, SNP Bad, Indy Bad.

    Then perhaps they come across this and read the actual letter. Oh, Nicolson isn’t Bad. Mmm, Murray “Falsified”. Mmm, media reported it. Mmm, media MIS-reported it. So maybe SNP aren’t Bad, Indy isn’t Bad.

    Mmmm, Media Bad.

    Just takes one thing to start discrediting the hostile and lying media, and make people work it out for themselves.

    Just one little relatively unimportant thing the media make a vulture carrion thing out of.

  37. louis.b.argyll says:

    Brexit is an experiment in a pressure-cooker.

    You can’t take the lid off to check!

    Just trust the recipe…oh What? You didn’t use one? Oh dear.

  38. Hamish100 says:

    I have to say that I was a bit disappointed in the article.

    I thought you were going to definitively tell us who spanner was. How many Tories out there would like to tell us. Confession is good for the soul guys.

    Naw ? hell for you lot.

  39. Bob MACK says:

    Ah, but did he write something in lemon juice ( I see a stain) ,or perhaps in invisible or disappearing ink. John can be sneaky !!

  40. heedtracker says:

    Its also a pretty terrific recount of the what and why STV did er, let the dude go.

  41. Whit aboot Jim Murphy who was murdered by a chicken’s egg, whilst valiantly defending Queen and Empire? Truly a martyr to the cause.

  42. louis.b.argyll says:

    Hamish, no. that would be leaked by Rev to AP. With choice tweets.

  43. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, not that I’d neccessarily recommend figting fire with fire, but when the Unionist try their “pecentage of the electorate”, we could answer them this way:

    “Only 25% of the Scottish electorate voted Leave.

    That’s just 1 in 4. But 3 out of 4 – a whopping 75% didn’t vote to leave the EU.

    Is that what you meant?”

    Fuekm.

  44. Bob MACK says:

    @Manandboy,

    My mother always used the word “sly” or sleekit to describe such people. Fits well.

  45. Dan Huil says:

    The bbc is the home of abusive behaviour towards Scotland. Don’t pay the bbc tax. Let britnats pay for britnat propaganda.

    Abusive britnat behaviour will increase as Scottish independence approaches. It’s all britnats have.

    And don’t forget: there will be many posters who say they’re pro-indy then advance some insincere worries, oh so serious, oh so insincere, about the result of the future referendum. These people are of course tractors; with sod-all dignity.

  46. BJ says:

    Man and boy @5:56

    People like Ian Murray are known in these parts as Cute, it means fly and not to be trusted.

  47. Andy-B says:

    Seems a perfectly polite and to the point missive, it would be great if Mr Murray could enlighten us all to the paragraph, or sentence that he found strange and bizarre.

    Go on Ian come on to Wings on and lets us know.

  48. mark robertson says:

    Resting pop singer now that one made me laugh

  49. Valerie says:

    I think Murray needs help if he calls this bizarre. John was straight on to him when Murray tweeted, saying publish the letter, and let others judge.

    What folk not on Twitter might not know, is John also challenged Daisley, following on the Sunday 2 piece spread, where Daisley was a victim of SNP. John directly challenged Daisley to debate anytime and anywhere, saying it was now 6 months Daisley had peddled his victim story.

    No word as yet from Daisley to pick up the gauntlet, of course.

    I’m pleased to see John calling out Daisley over this shite, and its long overdue.

  50. Rock says:

    All three of Scotland’s unionist MPs are proven liars.

    The “independence supporting” The National should go after them.

    This article should be headline news in tomorrow’s National.

  51. Smallaxe says:

    Man and boy @5:56:

    I think that “these people” are historically known by the term “Rogues” as in ” Thro’ many warlike ages, Is wrought now by a coward few, For hireling-T____ors wages”

    Usually known collectively as A Parcel, they can also be termed colloquially as Ar-Soles.

    Peace Always

  52. Meg merrilees says:

    Ruth Davidson at the NFU conference yesterday said, when asked , that if the science says it is OK she would absolutely back the growing of GM crops in Scotland!

    She thinks we should keep Trident – which the science says is OK.
    Does she support Fracking? – which American science says is OK

    Doesn’t sound to me that she actually wants Scotland to exist for a long time into the future…

  53. Fireproofjim says:

    Patrick Grady SNP presenting the SNP amendments to the Brexit bill. Live on BBC Parliament channel. Excellent presentation.

  54. Ken500 says:

    Some unionists will say and do anything for money especially other people’s. Enough is never enough. They have no shame but like to abuse the vulnerable, the elderly and sick.

    The rhetoric after the Westminster Labour/Unionist total shambles. It’s the SNP’s fault. It’s just incredible. Unbelievable ramble shambles.

    The Tories getting bussed and back and fro from a Black & White Ball to ruin the world economy. Completely surreal.

    The failed, fraudulent banker. Tory Housing minister who ruined the banking system and the housing industry. Likes taking trips down under on taxpayers money.

  55. galamcennalath says:

    Meg merrilees says:

    Ruth Davidson at the NFU conference yesterday

    Saw that. And farmers all talking like Brexit is a done deal. It needn’t be for Scotland. They were all talking like a bunch of Tory defeatists.

    As for Davidson. She is 100% London Tory, now. Not so long since she was Remain. Now she is amenable to all things Brexit including bending over and taking all Trump’s American can shove our way.

    I suppose she has never pretended to have Scotland’s interests foremost. Union, UK, Rule Britannia, Westminster, Trident, and now Brexit and a US take over.

    Someone save us! Nicola?

  56. Bob MACK says:

    House of Commons in fury as Patrick Grade filibuster . Own medicine they don’t like

  57. heedtracker says:

    Rock says:
    7 February, 2017 at 7:37 pm
    All three of Scotland’s unionist MPs are proven liars.

    The “independence supporting” The National should go after them.

    This article should be headline news in tomorrow’s National.

    The editor was speaking at that last indy convention with Elaine C Smith and he was very clear, pro indy. But he clearly is on a leash for the boys up stairs and he clearly has a big ego.

    Or, why wont he print anything from the author of this blog? Why does none of UKOK hackdom print anything from the author of this blog?

  58. JLT says:

    Taking a big step back, and just looking at these allegations from the Unionists, there are two themes which are always prevalent.

    The First Theme
    The most obvious – ‘SNP Baaad’. The reason …none really except …because it’s just the SNP!. There is no other reason. Why should there be a reason?!? They’re simply …just bad …The SNP are BAAAAAD and everyone says so …so there!!

    The above is what the media, establishment, unionists all cry. However, it frustrates them that half of Scotland doesn’t believe what they are saying.

    The Second Theme
    The real reason really – Fear. Absolute fear of Scotland finally voting for independence. It would mean an end to the Union, the Empire, the gravy train, the baubles of reward to the Crown …and the Glory Days when we ruled the entire world from the Arctic to the Antarctic. Finally having to admit (weepingly) that the party is really over.

    And that is it. The fear of them having to admit that the sun is really, really setting on their beloved ‘Britain’. The Unionists are becoming ever more edgy, shouty and indignant (just like we see the Tory bench explode in anger every day now when an SNP member stands up to speak). It’s been going on for nigh on 4 years, and no matter how much they howl, shriek, scream, accuse, froth, spew, whine, greet, fart, belch …the message is just not sinking into those damned nationalists. They just won’t take a telling!

    And because we won’t take a telling …it’s making them awfy upset, and getting them all angry. And over the next few weeks …I’m expecting a lot of angry unionists appearing in Westminster and the media. Somebody on the Unionist side is finally going to speak their mind and tell the Scottish people EXACTLY what is expected of them while they are part of this ‘wonderful and great’ Union.

    When that happens, I’m expecting the ‘Yes’ vote to climb a few more points.

    And then we repeat the cycle.

  59. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    O/T On the final motion on Art.50 in Holyrood this afternoon, guess who were the lonely few, besides the predictable gaggle of Tories, who actually voted in favour of Tory UKGov Brexit…?

    Findlay, Neil (Lab)
    Leonard, Richard (Lab)
    Smith, Elaine (Lab)

    Well, they do say that you can tell a person by the company they keep…

  60. Robert Peffers says:

    @dakk says: 7 February, 2017 at 5:59 pm:

    “It’s the wee fat BritNat MP liar fae Embra”

    Aye! Dakk, It was just my backhanded way of saying the guy is a sleekit, haiverin, orra, ill-faured, naeboddie.

  61. HandandShrimp says:

    Labour MP intimidated by politeness and reasoned argument?

    I could see how that would work. Certainly wouldn’t be used to that approach in the discourse within his own party.

  62. solarflare says:

    It’s hard to tell the difference between panto at the Pavilion and democracy at Westminster, they look very much alike at times.

  63. Ian McCubbin says:

    It’s all a play like in 2014 and its the slow propaganda to frighten Scots from talking and checking. Today had two conversations aboutvlies and propaganda.
    One with friends who are enlightened and will help Indy.
    One a mother on a bus who feels she should know more as lots of changes happening.
    I urged her to read and talk.
    So wings widen and publish we need you for Independence.

  64. tartanfever says:

    Thepnr says:

    ‘Brexit is far from being neglected on Wings. You couldn’t have the Rev posting Brexit articles day after day. Not if he wanted to keep people reading you couldn’t.’

    This is silly IMO. Brexit is the reason for a second indyref, it will also be the reason why we will win if we do.

    But your idea is, ‘hey, too many Brexit stories and we’ll lose our readership’

    We should be all over Brexit, day and night. In some ways it’s perfect, it’s Project Fear, but it’s courtesy of the unionist press in London as they are the ones warning us of it’s perils. We can have a free Project Fear without having to take the blame for it, and by simply re-tweeting and re-directing the narrative to these articles.

    Here’s an example. This evening, the Rev has just re-tweted a story from Reuters where they claim that the Tory Govt. has lied about the amount of UK investment from China by some £30bn. We should be all over that for days – re-tweeting, discussing, getting it in the paper etc etc, and the SNP should also be using it in media interviews.

    It perfectly counters the ‘UK is our biggest market’ argument that we hear in two ways:

    1) It casts serious doubt on May’s govt and their figures. It makes them look unreliable and untrustworthy.

    2) This is the most important point. It’s not from the Scottish Indy media. It’s from a non-partisan, London based source – which will get the ‘soft’ No voters or those wavering to actually take notice. News like this from these sources are gold nuggets for our cause and this is what we should be discussing tonight, not some letter.

    If I was Ian Murray and I had the indy crowd going daft over this letter, distracting them from the Reuters story I would consider it a worthwhile victory.

  65. Meg merrilees says:

    Bravo Patrick Grady – he talked for 58 minutes in tonight’s debate.

    Chukka Umunna talked for 20 minutes and Grovel talked for 29 minutes so 58mins not that much really.

    Well done the Baad SNP (mostly men v the old boy’s club) for using WM ‘s own methods against them- that’s the way to do it!!

    A possible Salmond led coup? – always a stickler for Parliamentary procedure.

  66. Still Positive says:

    JLT @ 9.12

    Agree. The SNP benches were quite gleeful tonight – that really annoys them. Water off a duck’s back.

    And Patrick Grady taking a lot of interventions and called out the benches immediately opposite them as habitual time-wasters.

  67. Meg merrilees says:

    Salmond at 14.59 onwards on Parliament debate. Eloquent as ever and sharp as a surgeon’s knife in his argument. Nick Clegg behind him nodding several times in agreement.

  68. Stoker says:

    Rock wrote on 7 February, 2017 at 7:37 pm:

    “All three of Scotland’s unionist MPs are proven liars.
    The “independence supporting” The National should go after them.
    This article should be headline news in tomorrow’s National.”

    In any other country, Rock, their lies would be plastered all over every outlet and the three of them would be hounded to hell. Scumbags! Liars! Turncoats! Take yer pick!

  69. Thepnr says:

    @tartanfever

    But your idea is, ‘hey, too many Brexit stories and we’ll lose our readership’

    I’d much prefer if you didn’t put words into my mouth that I never uttered.

    Do you think you could write a blog everyday focusing on Brexit and only Brexit? Well if you do, then you know the answer then is to start your own blog.

    I don’t think the Rev needs your advice on what topics to choose for Wings articles, so far those he chooses to write about seem to be doing very well and have done for long since before you turned up telling him what he should be writing about.

  70. yesindyref2 says:

    OT
    It’s very sad, I’ve got MM from West Midlands arguing that black is white on Curtice’s blog, about that “only 27% support Indy Ref 2 before Brexit” big mistake. It’s not Curtice, it’s the Times that “misrepresented” its own Panelbase poll, and I think Curtice just blogged it without checking the tables – which show a 50% in favour of Indy Ref 2 before Brexit, not just 27%. This from Curtice’s blog:

    Meanwhile, it would seem that supporters of independence themselves may also be coming to the conclusion that Brexit may not provide an opportune moment for a second independence referendum after all. Just 27% of all voters now think that an independence referendum should be held before the UK leaves the EU. That represents a drop of six points since last September and one of no less than 16 points compared with the position immediately after the EU referendum result became known. Even amongst those who voted Yes in September 2014 rather less than half (47%) now think a second independence referendum should be held before the UK leaves the EU.

    Still, perhaps for Ms Sturgeon there is a silver lining to this particular cloud. If many of her supporters are not convinced that an early indyref2 should be held in order to avoid Brexit, perhaps this means it will be easier for her to take a second referendum ‘off the table’ should she decide that holding such a ballot looks too risky after all.

    http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2017/01/ms-sturgeons-brexit-difficulties/

    I hope he corrects it, as Unionists are using it and I’m rebutting them every single time. The National uses the correct provable 50% figure every time as well now. If anyone has contact with Curtice, drop a word in his shell-like please …

  71. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    tartanfever,

    I like what you say there. Especially the bit about using London-based sources to influence the “soft no’s”.

    This is an economic theme that will surely garner more and more traction as stark Brexit reality begins to bite over the next few months.

    It’s started already – there was someone on the lunchtime R4 news saying that after a pause, UKGov austerity is going to be ramped up yet again – less money for the police, for example – and UK taxes are going to have to increase. (Swallow that medicine, Truthless!)

    Indyref2 next year – it’s the best chance we’ll ever get.

  72. galamcennalath says:

    I see the latest panicked proposal from the Yoons is IndyRef2 should have a minimum hurdle of 60% or whatever.

    Aye, just like Brexit?

  73. heedtracker says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38895007

    Total black out on anything SNP at all tonight. This is probably tory beeb at its worst so far. Unless there is no SNP in the chamber at all.

  74. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “To be fair there is an element of “Shutting Down” involved. Obviously not claiming Murray was doing anything illegal but similarities might be drawn to the way the authorities shut down smuggling, drug suppliers and so on.”

    WTF are you on about?

  75. Robert Peffers says:

    @tartanfever says: 7 February, 2017 at 9:46 pm:

    “We should be all over Brexit, day and night.”

    Why? We all know almost all about it already?

    “This evening, the Rev has just re-tweted a story from Reuters where they claim that the Tory Govt. has lied about the amount of UK investment from China by some £30bn. We should be all over that for days – re-tweeting, discussing, getting it in the paper etc etc,

    Aye! And just how do you propose we make the papers publish it?

    How many readers of Wings, who are either not here to be converted but here to attempt to put their unionist mantra to us or are here because they are already aware of Brexit and thus have read what the Rev Stu and other have already said do you imagine there are?

    If it was wall to wall Brexit they’ll just go elsewhere. The sheer variety, humour and different topics keeps issues alive.

    Reuters is a news agency it is not a newspaper. The MSM and Broadcasters pick & choose from Reuters but then re-publish what they choose.

    If it does not suit their opinions they do not publish it. Nor do they publish what we or the SNP want them to publish.

    Do you imagine that the SNP, as a party, or the SG as a government, do not send out Press releases?

    Now why is it, do you imagine, they do not get reported in the MSM and broadcasts?

    Even if they do get into print or get broadcast over the airwaves it is very likely they will be spun so hard as to be read as, “SNP BAAAAD”, as usual. That is what the MSM and Broadcasters do. hey are owned or controlled by the Unionist side.

  76. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 22:05,

    I don’t know, I wonder if Curtice himself is not rather colluding now in a campaign that’s clearly trying to persuade the SG to stall at the very moment that’s optimum to act.

    The Panelbase figures may be fine in themselves, but I believe they’re missing a lot of latent support for indyref2 and independence itself. Yes, people have normal lives to get on with and are somewhat suffering from “referendum-fatigue”. Who isn’t? really, even though it’s clearly unfinished business.

    But politics at its best can be far more than merely swithering over the results of a few polls, which themselves are only static snapshots taken on particular periods in the past.

    The right leadership, leading with energy and conviction from the front, can be inspirational, transformative, enabling. A lot of people, I believe, are ready to be convinced, as revealed by the figures of those who believe that independence is ultimately inevitable.

    The thing is to convince enough of those believers that that time is not far away in some distant future, but necessarily right now, and is well within their power to achieve. And Brexit is the key that unlocks it all.

  77. galamcennalath says:

    Unionists, Labour, Tories … Events at WM over the last few days……

    “I just hope with all my heart that we never have cause to look back and feel that we made a historically bad mistake.” – JKR 2014

    In the light of Brexit, was the 2014 result a ‘historically bad mistake’? Absolute and utter disaster of epic proportions more like!

  78. Artyhetty says:

    Great article, and yeh, WTF is that guy on about, with their ridiculous comment on drugs crap?!

    Anyone have a link to the HoC’s and the SNP MPs, referred to earlier, had a look for it but couldn’t find it.
    Thanks.

  79. Sinky says:

    Shocking that BBC / STV / MSM have not been all over the treatment meted out to scotland’s MPs last night in House of Commons. Not just a five second mention.

    The comments by Tommy Sheppard in the recent retweet from Rev Stu should be compulsary reading for every voter in Scotland.

    Wings Over Scotland Retweeted
    Gary Dunion ?@garydunion 8h
    More
    My local MP, @TommySheppard, on the state of Westminster democracy right now. #Article50 #ScotlandSaysStay

  80. Meg merrilees says:

    Had a couple of posts go missing tonight- so apologies if this is posted twice.

    Been sitting through Patrick Grady’s mammoth contribution to the debate tonight. Each member of the SNP had an intervention and an opportunity to speak.

    Half an hour in, Patrick was challenged as to whether he thought there should be a law in the house about philbustering.

    Was this a Salmond plan?
    Bravo these men and women of the Ba-ad SNP for using the system against WM and the Old Boys’ club.

    Even the Deputy Speaker was tolerant for about 45 minutes, but still oor laddie continued.

    58 minutes in total – Weel done cutty sark!

    The Rt. Hon Alex Salmond must have been fair chuffed with his Scottish team, when he thinks back to the early days when there were only a handful of SNP MP’s.

    The last ten minutes are priceless as MP after MP objects because they are being denied the time to speak. Rees-Mogg intervenes to praise Patrick Grady, and time after time the Deouty Speaker has defended the SNP their right to speak. Bizarre place!

  81. James Barr Gardner says:

    Free press in the UK that’s a fecking laugh, the VOW a proven lie, Alistair (Tam Pepper) Carmichael, so I know that Labour MP Ian Murray and Stephen Daisley are tarred with the same brush, a manky used shithouse brush.

    Folks this is no longer an independence campaign for Scotland, it’s the 2nd War of Independence for Scotland and it’s people from the criminal westminister overlords and their mandarins.

    This is serious we have a shot at Independence at last, we must win this time for our children and grand children’s futures, even their lives depend on our staunch fast hard work and determination to see this through!

  82. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Robert Peffers @ 22:28,

    Robert, you are right of course about the extreme antipathy of the MSM to give the SNP any obvious assistance, but I believe the OP’s point is that you can still get them to give unintended assistance by using the normal “non-indy” economic news in the media to shift people’s opinion about indy here.

    Any economic downturn – and there will be much coming down the pipeline, you can be sure – will be reported upon, and this can be “recycled” for the benefit of the “soft noes”.

    As with the example I just quoted from the radio today. “Austerity to get worse and UK taxes will have to go up.”

    Chickens coming home to roost. Just imagine if, during the Brexit talks, the pound were to drop to parity with the euro or dollar! That can’t and won’t be hidden.

    Because such reports come from non-indy sources, they can’t be airily shrugged-off as “propaganda”.

  83. Big Jock says:

    People are people and people get carried away sometimes. The only hard physical evidence of verbal, violent, sectarian bigotry. Was George Square circa 2014, but the media don’t like to talk about that. How bizarre.

    Bit like the Sevco fans that never destroyed Manchester.Unionism is an ugly spectrum of belief. It celebrates oppression and that’s never good.

  84. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says: 7 February, 2017 at 10:35 pm:

    “I just hope with all my heart that we never have cause to look back and feel that we made a historically bad mistake.” – JKR 2014″

    In the light of Brexit, was the 2014 result a ‘historically bad mistake’? Absolute and utter disaster of epic proportions more like!

    History will witness that no peoples who sought to be free from oppression have failed to eventually break free.

    Most, however, have had to shed much blood. There have been failures to become free but these have been the result of genocide.

    The native North Americans, the Australian Aboriginal peoples and the New Zealand Maori tribes. Spring to mind. These all have something in common – their genocidal oppressors were all the British Empire.

    Yet in all three cases the countries the oppressors formed are now free of the United Kingdom and now that United Kingdom is attempting to break free from the EU and do free-trade deals with their erstwhile colonials.

    It does not auger well for the laughably titled United Kingdom.

  85. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Apropos my previous posting, the Daily Telegraph has an article on that very theme tomorrow:

    “Tax burden to hit 30-year high as Hammond faces £34bn black hole.”

    And not the last, no doubt.

    I wonder what Ruthless will have to say about that one!

  86. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland
    I don’t know, I think he just jumps too fast. The Times article came out on the Sunday with its false headline figure from the poll – and the Times in Scotland is definitely hostile to Indy which is a shame because the UK Times had some good articles in Indy Ref 1, particularly the pink one.

    And Curtice’s article also came out on the Sunday 29th, so he didn’t bother waiting to look at the Panelbase dataset, he believed what he read in the Times!

    He should read Wings, he’d soon learn not to believe one word he read in the papers.

  87. ScottishPsyche says:

    If a newspaper actually did an in depth study of the core support of Better Together it would be well worth buying a paper. The sort of investigations papers used to do, peeling back the layers and looking at the historical context.

    I remember the Sunday Herald got Paul Hutcheon to phone up a few Yoons and ask for quotes regarding their Twitter output. It was all a bit half hearted and because Yoons lack the ability to be embarrassed or feel shame it fell a bit flat. Also he was probably doing it under duress.

    Well done Patrick Grady. Showing what having a united disciplined unit of MPs can do. While we have to be there we must use all their procedures against them.

    Poor STV. In trying to distance themselves from the SNP and quash Daisley’s accusations they are losing what objectivity they had. With the demise of the BBC Scotland night time show they could have really stepped up instead of running scared. Now they are trying too hard to please the Yoons with trite ‘Is there really any point to Scotland’ topical analysis.

  88. crazycat says:

    @ yesindyref2

    The “pink one” – the Financial Times – isn’t a Murdoch rag, which could have something to do with it.

    (I was fairly sure it wasn’t, but have just now learned that it is owned by Nikkei.)

  89. Dr Jim says:

    I once heard Nicola Sturgeon refer to the opposition as “serial misleaders”

    I thought that was the nicest way to call someone a total lying bastirt I ever heard

    Some folk are experiencing difficulty joining the SNP at the moment but we’re assured the system will be operating normally by tomorrow

    Busy Busy Busy

  90. yesindyref2 says:

    @crazycat
    Thanks for that, explains a lot.

  91. Joemcg says:

    Big Jock-very good point. Why were the George Square and Manchester riots played down by our press? A common denominator perhaps? Biased bastards. Imagine if yes supporters done that in George square? They would be using it as an excuse almost every day to stop Indyref 2.

  92. DerekM says:

    Blast i would have gotten away with it except for those pesky kids on twitter lol

    Drives off into the sunset in the mystery machine scooby snacks all round.

    Made a bit of an eejit out yourself again Ian.

  93. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland says: 7 February, 2017 at 10:51 pm:

    “Robert, you are right of course about the extreme antipathy of the MSM to give the SNP any obvious assistance, but I believe the OP’s point is that you can still get them to give unintended assistance by using the normal “non-indy” economic news in the media to shift people’s opinion about indy here.”

    You could be right but what I see is the MSM & Broadcasters colluding with the Union and therefore what results is a united front that the general public never actually see. Sometimes almost word for word and all with the same slant and same spin.

    If I were a betting man I would put money on a poll among the public showing, for example, that the RT Channel is generally regarded by the public to be pure Russian propaganda.

    While my own impression is that it is, be several magnitudes, far less propaganda biased than any other of the UK aimed channels.

    Mind you, as I do not speak any other European languages than real Lowland Scots & English, I am in no position to judge if the more exotic stuff on Smart TVs from Europe and Asia are biased or not.

  94. yesindyref2 says:

    Just looking at the Express before I wash my eyes out with vinegar.

    Headline: “Bercow’s backtrack? Speaker apologises after he tries to ban Donald Trump from Parliament

    Subtext: “JOHN BERCOW apologised after he said he would try and ban Donald Trump from entering Parliament.

    Text under photo: “Lord Fowler said John Bercow had apologised for not contacting him about his Donald Trump remarks

    The reality? The eyes have it, the eyes (phot0) have it. Fowler (Lords speaker):

    “However, the Speaker contacted me this morning. He told me that while he maintained his view on the issue he was generally sorry for failing to consult with me. Obviously, I accepted that apology.”

    You’ve got to feel sorry for Express readers, they actually believe it all.

    “Lost, in a lost world. Some of them are living an illusion …”

  95. Robert Peffers says:

    @yesindyref2 says: 7 February, 2017 at 11:08 pm:

    ” … He should read Wings, he’d soon learn not to believe one word he read in the papers.”

    I nearly wet myself laughing at that about Curtice.

    I thought it more than likely he would learn from Wingers not to believe a word he, Curtice, is reported to have said in the papers.

  96. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    The Herald twitter – tomorrows front page:

    https://twitter.com/heraldscotland

    A wee shift in the Polls.

  97. yesindyref2 says:

    Un-fucking-believable. I’m getting upvotes in the Express at last! Here’s my posting (on “SIT DOWN! Brilliant moment ranting Alex Salmond is shouted down in Commons debate”)

    ——————
    Salmond, Cherry and all the rat-bag Scottish MPs should just sit down, be quiet, never open their mouths and eat their cereal. Don’t they know that the Scottish Labour MPs knew their place, at their master Cameron’s feet? Why can’t the SNP be the same as Labour, let the Tories walk all over them and Scotland, throwing the dog a half picked bone every so often to be eaten under the table?

    It’s a disgrace, the Scottish MPs should all be gagged, they’re lucky they’re even allowed in the place. These Jocks should know their subservient place.
    ———————-

    I wish I’d posted it earlier, I’d have got more upvotes than “Salmond should have been thrown out and the door bolted behind him. He is a thug, just like the rest of his SNP pals.”

    They are so thick btl mince would be ashamed of itself. Oh and yeah, posted with the monicker “yesindyref2”. I’m very naughty, smack smack.

  98. heedtracker says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    8 February, 2017 at 12:06 am
    Un-fucking-believable.

    Funny. It does make you worry a bit for the human race in general though. Pres Trump’s been a real shot in the arm for this say, demographic.

  99. Thepnr says:

    @BBC Scotland Tells Lies

    Thanks for that, 49% sounds OK. I’ve of the opinion though that we crossed 50% quite some time back after the Tory conference. Still beggars can’t be choosers.

    All I know for certain is that support for Indepndence is increasing and will continue to increase while the Tories run Scotland into the ground.

    Indyref2 is a certainty and coming soon to a place near YOU!

  100. Marcia says:

    Get the Indy ref fundraising going.

  101. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2:

    Oh and yeah, posted with the monicker “yesindyref2”

    Not very bright, then, yer average Daily Slug reader?

    Or did they think you were just being ironic? =grin=

    I reckon this kind of (self-originated or “honeytrap”) cyberyoon stuff is a great response to the provocateur Brain Spinner. Results to be disseminated by one means or another to the remaining PSBs out there.

    “To see oorsels as ithers (doon sooth) see us.”

    And puncture the “equal partners” Unionist puffery once and for all.

  102. Still Positive says:

    Yesindyref2 @ 11.31

    Well done, you do what I cannot do and I appreciate it on my behalf.

    Just like our wonderful SNP MPs do on our behalf.

    They were wonderful tonight with a lot of laughter too.

    Called out a few charlatans, too.

  103. Meg merrilees says:

    just found this…

    a few days old so apologies if it has been posted already but it explains a lot.

    Worrying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/02/corporate-dark-money-power-atlantic-lobbyists-brexit

  104. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Thepnr:

    The polls will shift to YES once Theresa triggers Article 50 and Nicola announces the date for IndyRef2.

    We are winning this thing!!!

  105. goldenayr says:

    Twitter under a DDOS.Y’think we’re winning?

  106. Ghillie says:

    It would appear that Mr Murray found Mr Nicolson’s letter as hair raisingly scarey as the leaving of THAT sticker on his office door.

    He seems to be a fragile wee soul.

  107. yesindyref2 says:

    @heedtracker + others
    The Express and its btl readers are really out for Bercow’s blood after he said he’d ban Trump from the HoC.

    Yes, for them it’s Brexit, UKIP / Cons (not a lot of difference) May and Trump. Ban the SNP, Scotland, immigrants, ban the lot, ban the lot, Britain rules OKUK.

  108. Capella says:

    @ Meg Merrilees – George Monbiot is one of the best journalists. Thanks for the link. I do suspect that this BREXIT caper is being orchestrated by American Corporations.

  109. yesindyref2 says:

    Anyways, bearing in mind the latest Pabelbase distortion by the Times as 27% when that should be added to the 23% after Brexit negotiations are complete, this is very interesting in the Herald:

    (from BMG): “they also suggest a majority of Scots may not have the appetite for another referendum before the Brexit negotiations are concluded.

    Have to wait until the datatset comes out or maybe James gets a sniff at the actual question and answers, but that’s so toned down “before negotiations are concluded” – with no figure, what’s the figure for AFTER, but before Brexit itself?

    That could be even more interesting than the 49% itself, fingers crossed. Herald’s on the fence I think, but it’s getting sharp on the bum.

  110. yesindyref2 says:

    @Meg Merrilees

    “Atlantic Bridge” from the article.

    Yup, there was a lot of talk about this on the Grun in 2012 in connection with the Health Act (England) and creeping privatisation.

    Over Brexit I’ve seen a couple of people quoting thinktanks which turned out to be American – and dodgy with it. I keep an open mind, but …

  111. Meg merrilees says:

    Could explain why TM was invited SO quickly to USA, why Osbourne is working over there; why Farage slotted in as Fox TV political commentator, moves to get Speaker removed. Big Pharma deals, Monsanto…

    I think I’m going to consider everyone to be a threat at this rate unless they’re pro-Indy.

    We need to get away from WM as soon as practicable and possible.

    Think I prefer the Atlantic Bridge at Seil Island!

  112. ian m says:

    UK biggest exporter to China is Jaguar Land Rover great news indeed except for the fact that JLR has now built a manufacturing plant in China which now accounts for 20% of total car builds.
    The fabulous export numbers are a bit misleading for example they claimed the full value of an export deal regardless of the involvement.A multi billion dollar deal was attributed except that Cambridge University (the UK component) only did 1.5 million of consulting.
    Those porkies will be home to roost soon enough

  113. mr thms says:

    BBC Scotland Tells Lies @ 12:04 am

    “A wee shift in the Polls.”

    The Herald poll is now making news…

    It has been picked up by the Daily Mail..

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-4202202/Poll-shows-support-Scottish-independence-rising-Herald-Scotland.html

    and Reuters..

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-scotland-idUKKBN15N05V

  114. yesindyref2 says:

    @@Meg Merrilees
    I did read about it in 2012, and comments from people who knew something about it. Worrying list of MPs involved, even I think a couple of Labour as well as Tories. Turned my back on it to be honest, concentrated on Indy, but as I say, checking a couple of references in postings in the Herald, spotted the probable links to it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/oct/15/liam-fox-atlantic-bridge

    Shudder. We might pull the Holyrood Tories to bits, and some do Lab and LibDems, but Holyrood is squeaky clean in comparison. Doesn’t bear thinking about. I have to wonder if Ruth Davidson has a clue about what goes on down there? I think even she’d be a YES if she did.

    Long time since I’ve been to Seil Island and ah, Easdale (google street thing), now I remember it! Lovely place. I think I’ll streeet view a bit to take my mind off AB!

  115. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 01:22,

    Ach, there comes a time when you have to make events and form opinion, rather than merely trail passively behind it, poring over the entrails. (Labour Party error #1.)

    I think Nicola before too long has to shift a few gears and get a-movin’ and a-shakin’. Then we’ll see things change dramatically, I believe. She’s fully capable of it. It’s just a question of timing (I hope and trust).

  116. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    indyref2 @ 02:13,

    O/T Easdale Island – aye, a hidden wee gem of a place. Stayed there first with our baby daughter when she was just a month or so old, bobbing across the strait in that boatie you (literally) ring up to call out, having just got there before the end of service for the day. Pure magic!

  117. Meg merrilees says:

    Yesindyref2

    So Gove, Cameron, Osborne, Fox etc. picked up where they left off during the coalition government; rocked the boat with the Brexit vote and cleared off to let the main players take over here.
    Meanwhile, Clinton’s chance at POTUS is sabotaged to let Trump walk in and now he has appointed the key people stateside. e.g the guy who will be EU Ambassador, the guy from Exxon.
    It just needs TM to reciprocate and their cunning plan in place.

    No wonder they don’t like the SNP and there are veiled threats of violence this time round…

    or am I letting my imagination run away with me?

  118. yesindyref2 says:

    @Meg merrilees
    Aye, it doesn’t bear thinking about. Most MPs though are basically good people, but submerged, stunned even, by this Brexit thing. They’re going to need to wake up. They are stuck in a democratic trap though. It was a People’s Referendum, and the people spoke – even if whipped up in a frenzy and totally misled. Our MPs are lucky – Scotland voted Remain, all of it, and they were voted on “Stronger for Scotland”, so they had complete entitlement to vote against.

    England’s in a mess, and it’s incredibly sad for the English. From comments I’ve seen (when I was being nice not doing the troll I did earlier, inclusing on the BBC website), I think we will see a good few moving up here after our Indy. Not so much because of Brexit, but because of the madness. Bring the kids, bring the business!

    Mmm, back to Easdale …

  119. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland
    I thnk it’s going OK. It’s still going to be slow for a time, people are cautious. As long as the Legislation gets ready for the vote in Holyrood, to get the request for the S30 whenever needed. I don’t personally think there’ll be much resistance to it at Westminster.

  120. Breeks says:

    That information on Liam Fox and dark money is curious, but I don’t think it’s behind Brexit, but merely a cynical idea which peaked, then all but collapsed with Fox’s fall from grace, but is now being hastily resurrected. It was Brexit however that delivered a change to everyone’s plans, the Tories remember expected to win the referendum, and suddenly their world changed.
    It is a good question to ask whether the resurrection of Fox and his shady US connections is Westminster’s idea to engage with the US power brokers, or whether it’s an opportunity which the dark money sources are rushing to exploit. Most likely the truth is mutual.

    It is indeed a worrying time for Westminster, because there is no weight in the UK equal to the muscle of these US corporations. Britain teeters on bankruptcy and has no escape strategy beyond further exploitation and dismantling of the UK’s estate to release capital. What that means is a UK population which is already being manipulated, conned and fleeced by banks and mortgage companies perverting the housing market, who are next going to be served up on a platter for a similar plundering of their remaining wealth over private healthcare.
    Rooked my mortgage companies in the 80’s until the housing and banking market collapsed, and now bringing the NHS in England to the point of collapse so the scene is set for American type healthcare and insurance to be introduced wholesale as a constructive solution to be welcomed.

    That’s Britains idea of taking back control eh? It makes you sick… so I hope you have healthcare.

    Here’s a thought, maybe it’s no accident that Westminster has such anaemic and spineless leadership where clowns like Boris,Theresa May, and our own queen of the water buffalo Ruth Harrison, are those hungry enough for celebrity and self aggrandisement, shallow and fickle enough to be untroubled by any lack integrity, and yet sufficiently dumb enough to be patsies.

    Equally troubling is the UK’s position as the useful idiot to broaden the legitimacy of hawklike US military policy, turning every US caper or adventure into a “multinational” initiative rather than outright American Imperialism. It isn’t only US drone strikes which can murder people. It seems fairly apparent that Theresa May is content for the UK to be the self styled Jeremiah Wormtongue serving the interests of Saruman Trump, while all the time under the gaze of the greater yet arch evil which is reluctant to reveal its true form.

    We MUST escape this doomed United Kingdom. It isn’t the end for England, because parasites rarely kill their host, but Scotland has a much brighter future if only we have the collective sense to grant ourselves the power of choice, and then choose a future in Europe.

    So far, Scotland has shown remarkable resistance to the dark lords power; we value our NHS, we condemn illegitimate wars, our properties are only moderately overvalued by comparison with the South, we have less debt, we respect immigrants because we know what is like being compelled to emigrate. So let us get our scrawny little Hobbit butts moving to do what is necessary to protect our beloved Shire.

  121. Nana says:

    Not had time to read the comments so apologies if some links have already been posted

    Theresa May ‘preparing secret strategy on Scottish independence
    http://archive.is/sNBdh

  122. Ken500 says:

    @ Hans Rosling

  123. JaceF says:

    @britnatabusebot on twitter is still there (I wish it would get turned back on) as an archive of the vile hate spewed during the 2014 referendum.

  124. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I know, in the past, we pro-independence Scots have had our issues with Mr Speaker Bercow. I dare say, we will want to do away with him again in the future, but, today he is a hero.

    On the basis of knowing what the Enemy is up to, I always have a quick look through the Daily Mail website, well, this morning, he is getting full “Enemy of the People” treatment from the Heil, including a printed doing from that well-known liberal thinker Quentin Letts.

    Attaboy Bercow, you’ve really upset Torydom by speaking out about Trump. I wonder how many green ink letters from “Disgusted, and his neighbour Outraged, of Tunbridge Wells” have arrived at the Speaker’s Office this morning.

  125. Alba 46 says:

    This mornings Euronews and France 24 giving coverage of the vote in parliament yesterday to reject article 50 and the increase in support of independence.

    Our European friends are not deserting us.The english government won’t like that.

  126. mr thms says:

    LOL at Good Morning Scotland on the Herald poll..

    Before announcing the figures they reassured their listeners of a nervous disposition by saying there was a ‘caveat’!

    I pictured a few will have spat their coffee, toast or cereal, or nicked themselves shaving upon hearing 49% now back independence..

  127. DerekM says:

    Nice to see the German government has given us the green light after indy.

    Their position makes absolute sense no indy = no EU,indy = EU if you want it.

    Cant say fairer than that,i imagine there will be an increase in articles about how bad they were many years ago from our Britnat zoomer friends.

  128. orri says:

    Sorry for not being clear.

    Sometimes being “shut down” is deserved. In the case of a debate the analogy is to provide evidence so compelling that it completely stops the opposite sides line of attack dead in the tracks.

    Arguably Ian Murray might genuinely believe that asking STV whether an employee is authorised to use a position of power in a politically partisan manner is an attempt to intimidate. Indeed given that Westminster hold the purse strings of the BBC and are making overt moves to embed a pro union stance in their charter you can see why he might think that.

    On the other hand the disparity between what he claims the letter said and what it actually said should, for fair minded observers, put an end to any credibility he has.

  129. Macart says:

    Oooo! Nana’s links.

    Kettle on and a few links, just the ticket. 🙂

    @Yesindyref2

    After yesterday’s vote, dominoes pretty much lined up dads. 🙂

  130. Glamaig says:

    GMS mention decommissioning of Brent oil field. Radio Scotland are big on decommissioning but do they ever mention any of the new fields??

  131. heedtracker says:

    “I pictured a few will have spat their coffee, toast or cereal, or nicked themselves shaving upon hearing 49% now back independence.”

    We’re all under relentless vote NO or else pressure, pouring out of tory BBC led UKOK hackdom’s spectacular vote tory blitzkrieg and with no YES campaign either. I’ll take that:D

  132. Marcia says:

    Mr Thms

    I would love to have seen the face of the mad hysterical Professor when she read that.

  133. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    Theresa May ‘preparing secret strategy on Scottish independence

    Deeply ironic that she is putting together an Indy strategy when after many months she still hasn’t got on top of a Brexit strategy.

    And would that be an anti-Indy strategy, or a post-Indy strategy?

    An intriguing story, not least that Nicola will imminently announce IndyRef2.

  134. louis.b.argyll says:

    Not just new oil fields..that the BBC doesn’t mention.. but the biggest ones yet.

    More oil under Scotland’s sea than has ever been taken.

  135. galamcennalath says:

    New poll 49% Yes. To be welcomed as even taking into account error/noise it shows a definite move from 2014.

    While lots of people don’t like polls, or don’t believe polls, they do provide propaganda fodder. So long as they imply there isn’t a majority for Indy, they allow the Unionists to keep saying there isn’t. And, that gives them reason to say 2014 still stands and there is no need for IndyRef2.

    However, if the polls were to begin to show low 50s%, then that argument ceases to be valid.

    When they hover around 50, I believe it is important they are pushed upwards by some YES campaigning.

    We are where we are with no YES campaigning against relentless NO messages from politicians and media.

    Low key YES campaigning needs to start now.

  136. Nana says:

    The hateful history woman was on tv apparently saying Hitler was a hero. If true she is deranged.

    https://twitter.com/T_Socialist/status/829057757001183236

    Check out the comments to see how misinformed some folks are.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/scotland-reject-brexit-again-3228230-Feb2017/?utm_source=shortlink

  137. ScotsRenewables says:

    Meg Merrilees last night:
    Think I prefer the Atlantic Bridge at Seil Island!

    Please Meg – that’s for the tourists and No-voting incomers to our wee island . . . it’s Clachan Bridge

  138. Flower of Scotland says:

    Nice wee piece on Euronews just now about Scotland voting not to trigger Article 50.

    It showed the Parliament at Holyrood and people gathered outside with their Saltires.

    Publicity around Europe won’t do us any harm at all! Quite made my day.

  139. Sinky says:

    Nana @ 9.50

    On History Woman, who is a Tory council candidate in Edinburgh, perhaps wingers might write to The Hootsman which is full of indignation about John Mason’s IRA remarks.

  140. heraldnomore says:

    49% – that’s a brilliant near 10% increase on IndyRef1 – another 10% takes us to mid 50s, and then there’s no going back. Onwards folks.

  141. Dr Jim says:

    They’re going to come up with another Vow accompanied by a giant threat
    Probably involving great doom blackness and end of all life in Scotland as we know it

    Y’know the usual!

  142. Macart says:

    @Nana

    Yes, a few zoomers below the line and a few merely misinformed. Never ceases to amaze how some folk still buy into meeja narrative, rather than do a bit of research (shrugs).

  143. Ken500 says:

    GMS are ill reseach liars. The downturn in the Oil industry was because of the Osbourne illegal, unjust and non equal tax in 2010 on the Scottish Oil sector. Increasing the tax from 70% to 81% (£2Billion). The tax was 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing Scotland £Billions and thousands of jobs. The tax has been 40% since Jan 2016.That is the reason there had been increased activity.

    Mara (no occupation) trying to get credit for the decommissioning aspect in Dundee. A professional liar. It was nothing to do with her. It was the industrial partners /Gov who organised it. Labour/Unionists could not organise anything.

    The decommissioning is replacing structures which are now too old and unfit for purpose. The structures are 40 years old and have been reconstructed incessantly. The structures are no longer viable because of rust etc. The industry is streamlining worldwide. Using different more economic methods of delivery. Enormous movable tankers and barges and now being constructed to use for extraction. They are going back to portable vessels of production and consolidating collection. It was Oil tankers that first were relied upon to transport Oil worldwide.

    There are discrepancy in the UK North Sea accounts. £10Billion of ‘unidentified’ expenses. The reason why accounts are done is to identify expenses. Why the discrepancy? £Billions of North Sea production is being offshore to the EU without be accured to Scottish account?

    Scotland can benefit greatly. from decommissioning and investing in renewables. There is a race on worldwide to renewables. Scotland can benefit from CCS and EU Grants. Geographically one of best places in the world for CCS and renewables. The Tories one of the only associations in the world who have banned renewables and support nuclear. For fees, banking charges, commission, consultancies and donations to the Tory Party.

    Osbourne, the Tories are squandering and wasting. £500Billion of taxpayers money on Hinkley Point, HS2, Heathrow and Trident, All disasters waiting to happen. They will all be obsolete and redundant before they are finished. The Tories are borrowing and spending more. Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable to death. Their policies on the EU are a complete and utter disgrace. Labour are equally appalling. Instead of supporting the majority in the UK who want to remain in the EU. Corbyn is a total and utter, incompetent ignoramous.

    The Westminster unionists caused the worst migration crisis in Europe since the 11WW bombing the Middle East to bits and illegal invasions. Now they are going to further ruin the world economy. Appalling, useless liars. The reason they want out of the EU is so they and their cronies can tax evade and get the UK into even more debt. Imagine being bussed to and fro a White and a Black Ball as they try to ruin the world economy. They are out of touch vandals. Most of them should be in jail. They committed electoral fraud in 31Constituencies. Nothing has been done about it. Breaking electoral Law,

    This will run for another three years until the Tories are voted out. Leaving the biggest scotch earth mess in history. That is why they join the Party. To trash the economy, line their own pockets and waste and squander public money.

    Just waiting for the IndyRef2 announcement. There is now no other way. To get Scotland out of the Illegal mess. A horror show.

  144. Nana says:

    @Sinky

    Blimey I didn’t know she’s a candidate?

    Re Mason’s IRA tweet, thankfully G A Ponsonby has a good memory.
    https://twitter.com/GAPonsonby/status/829088484648448007

  145. HandandShrimp says:

    The Herald gave me a wee smile today. I can imagine a few die-hard unionist posters bit the end off their cereal spoons this morning.

    The activity and fury of the unionist posters has notched up to 11 in recent weeks indicating that they know full well that they are staring down the barrel of another referendum and a referendum that they may well lose. This poll will undoubtedly have the wing nuts that used to post on the Scotsman (perhaps still do) spilling out onto the Guardian, HYS, and Telegraph etc., to spew their deranged bile. One poster on the Guardian, who is an absolute gift to the Yes side, told us emphatically that without England Scotland wouldn’t have a pot to piss in….yet he seems keen to keep us. 🙂 🙂

  146. Valerie says:

    Hilary Benn chairing a UK Negotiating Objectives just now, with 3 Scottish witnesses, 2 academics and Law Society

    They are having to endure some really obnoxious comments from Tories about their ‘Agenda’. These posh boys can’t even exercise common courtesy to civilians visiting to assist.

    Imagine asking the Law Society rep if he abides by rulings by the highest court in the land? Even our more establishment figures are treated with disgust and derision.

    Still, it will help when these folk go back to Scotland.

  147. galamcennalath says:

    heraldnomore says:

    indyref in Aug 18?

    Unlikely. Too many in the midst of their annual main holidays. Would not be a sensible choice.

    September, maybe.

  148. heraldnomore says:

    Agreed gala, but if it is August I’ll be persuading Mrs HNM that holidays are for wimps next summer.

    And in terms of the Hootsmon poll that’s the only option, for now

  149. heedtracker says:

    One poster on the Guardian, who is an absolute gift to the Yes side, told us emphatically that without England Scotland wouldn’t have a pot to piss in….yet he seems keen to keep us”

    Riderooo? Hope so. Gruaniad reading Shropshire millionaire, from east end of Glasgow, hopelessly fixated on Salmond. Quite miss that nutcase.

    Speaking of yoon nuts, it be great to hear from Sensibledave about the Herald poll too. As he’s always explainerising why he only wants what the Scots majority want.

  150. Marcia says:

    A link to Patrick Grady’s speech at Westminster yesterday is now on twitter;

    https://goo.gl/eN2k2w

  151. HandandShrimp says:

    Heedtracker

    Rider still pops up from time to time – same tune but even more with even more kipper. The current prolific loon is British Redcoat

    …..name says it all really. Sock puppet for one of the previous loons that the mods lost patience with and booted.

  152. heedtracker says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    8 February, 2017 at 10:40 am
    Heedtracker

    Good old Ride. He’s probably on light duties until ref 2 campaign kicks off. He was always a balanced yoon soul, you Scots are useless scrounging bastards but you’re not getting away from anything UK, style of crazy.

  153. crazycat says:

    @ Nana

    I’ve just looked at the tweet about Historywoman to which you linked.

    Further down the thread, it is revealed that she said it during a programme about German history on a dedicated history channel, and that she described him as a war hero.

    This can only be referring to World War I, in which he was indeed decorated. So, strictly speaking, she’s not wrong. It was almost certainly (I haven’t seen the programme) a very foolish thing to say, a gift to be taken out of context – but isn’t it the mirror image of Mason and his factually correct statement that “some people” regard the IRA as freedom fighters?

    Much as I loathe her and her utterances, if we are going to insist on context for our side, it applies to her too, I think.

  154. Nana says:

    @crazycat

    Well done for spotting that, and yes indeed we should be as factually correct in our statements as possible.

  155. crazycat says:

    @ Nana

    Ta! 🙂

  156. Fred says:

    Anent Seil, Mrs Shand Kydd’s island home was broken into when she was at Dianna’s funeral in London, jewellery was taken but Dianna’s letters were apparently untouched? so either a small-time opportunist crook or the jewellery was taken to mask the real motive which was to copy the letters. Mrs Shand Kydd’s views on the Windsor’s was no secret (“a family of small Germans & the younger Royals, brats & bitches!”)

    A trader at the Barras in Glasgow had his house turned upside-down by polis from the Met looking for the jewellery, their activities in his loft flooded the house & brought the ceiling down. He believes that the whole operation was a scam, the polis knew fine who had the gems, they found nothing! His attempts to receive compensation for the damage, despite a long saga of lawyers dropping his case, losing his papers, & a TV documentary which never materialised, has come to nothing. To date he hasn’t had a penny. Very strange business.

  157. Meg merrilees says:

    Scots renewable @9.50

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/02/corporate-dark-money-power-atlantic-lobbyists-brexit

    If you read this article you’ll understand my posting.

  158. Jack Murphy says:

    heraldnomore said at 10:09 am:-
    ” Hootsmon poll – indyref in Aug 18?…….”

    Here’s the Archived link to that Scotsman news article:-
    http://archive.is/OKFQb

  159. Iain says:

    One should be cautious about describing neil Oliver as a historian.

    He did, of course, study history as part of his degree in archaeology. But that is altogether different to being a , academic historian – as indeed not having pursued academic work beyond the basic MA is insufficient to warrant the repute of being an archaeologist.

  160. Hamish100 says:

    Like others we note the diversion tactics by some to divert our views on how best we achieve independence / self determination.
    As we get closer to our final chance for Indy – probably in my lifetime I believe we must remain focused on how we win over previous NO voters, how we encourage new voters and how despite the fantastic turnout encourage those who did not vote to vote for YES this time. We also need full clarity on the use of postal votes from care and nursing homes where the Tories assisted in gathering the votes.

  161. Hamish100 says:

    I suppose what I am saying poorly let’s not waste our breath on Michelle Mone, Neil Oliver types.

    How can we best deal with poverty, improve social justice, housing, stamp out the various “ism’s” . Remove nuclear weapons from Scotland etcetera. Only independence can give us that.

  162. Muscleguy says:

    Well i don’t have a Noble prize but I am published in Nature and I did an awful lot of electron microscopy during my PhD. Will I do?

    Though I suggest we use immunochemistry instead. We simply need a monoclonal antibody against menace. I’m sure a blood sample from Ian Murray would provide the necessary T-Cell since he is the individual such an immune response he is detecting it when others cannot.

    If Morag is about I’m sure her Vet skills could be used to extract the necessary blood. I have taken blood samples from mice but I find human veins ridiculously large.

  163. Liam says:

    I’m annoyed there was no spoiler alert on the top of this post. I’ve never seen that episode of Scooby-doo and now I know who dunnit!

  164. Cactus says:

    Zoiks!

    A cameo appearance.

    Gene Simmons is the masked phantom.



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