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Wings Over Scotland

The Formula

Posted on August 04, 2016 by

Have you ever wondered how you try to poison and shut down a debate and a political environment that you fear you’ve found yourself on the losing side of, readers? Well, it’s funny you should ask, because as it happens we’ve got a visiting professor – an expert authority on the subject – with us today to give us a demonstration.


Make sure you’ve got your pens and notepads ready. He’s got a very busy schedule and we can’t afford to have him here for long.


You need to get yourself noticed, and in the modern world the easiest way to do that is to be a bit of a trolling dick. So start bashing out some wildly generalised and highly offensive abuse of large groups of people.


“Scottish nationalists and Brexiteers” covers perhaps 75% of Scotland (almost 50% of people vote SNP and 38% voted Leave, and the crossover is quite limited), so that’s a cracking start. Ideally say it in both the headline and the caption for added effect.

Of course, journalists often complain that headlines and picture captions are written by someone else (an editor or sub-editor), so make certain that you’ve said the same thing explicitly in the body copy of the article too so people know it was you.


Be sure to use the word “all” so that there’s no mistaking that you mean everyone in those categories, and if you can rope in another one while you’re there – “Corbynistas” – then that’s better still. You’ve now just called pretty much 80% of Scots “utterly vacuous”. With luck that should get them quite hacked off.

Make ridiculously over-the-top claims wherever you can. It might be quite a lark to suggest that political intolerance didn’t exist before 2014 and that it’s all the fault of Scottish people, for example. (Obviously you’d only actually mean Scottish people on one side of the argument.)


It helps if you can fire out derogatory and pejorative terms like “cybernats” to dismiss anyone who objects, or call them “deranged maniacs”. Crassly hinting at a likeness to the murderous sectarian bigots and terrorists of Northern Ireland might be fruitful.


Still, don’t stop there. You need to do it for a sustained period of time – six years, say – for it to really work, and you need to be in people’s faces at every turn.

So ensure that you churn out stuff for every possible outlet – not just the Herald but the Scotsman, the Daily Record, the Times, the Financial Times, the Guardian, the Telegraph, the New Statesman, the BBC, STV, Channel 4, the Independent, Scottish Review, Conservative Home, absolutely anyone who’ll have you – so that there’s absolutely no escape from your face and your spin for anyone who turns on the TV or radio, opens a newspaper or looks at political news on the internet.


Of course, those outlets are all one-way, which is ideal. You get to impose your views on people but they have no means of answering back (do airily announce that you’d never read BTL comments). This will likely prove quite frustrating for them, increasing their anger as you merrily mock and belittle them, which serves your purpose.

For advanced-level credit, regularly bemoan the “politics of hate” of the “cybernats” while not only ignoring that of the other side, but actively endorsing the most abusive proponents of it and joining in with their attempts to antagonise.



It’s not enough just to have provocative opinions. If you really want people properly wound up you have to personalise it as much as possible, so you should make the most outrageous comparisons you can muster. Unfortunately Hitler’s been done to death already, so how about a more modern monster?



Donald Trump? Perfect. Now, you’ll probably need to have kept the personal attacks coming on a near-weekly basis for years to goad a response out of your subject:


But eventually you should get one, however brief and gently acidic:


You’re well on the way now. Perhaps try to get under the skin of other popular figures with snide, condescending comments based on out-of-context micro-quotes:


Then, like any troll, proudly show off the reaction you got:


And now you’re almost set.


Having invested years in making sure that everyone on one side of the debate has good reason to think you’re a complete arse and openly glorying in the fact that you’re needling them, it’s time to suddenly play the victim.

It needn’t take much, because we live in an age where you can just say you’ve been abused and expect to be believed without actually having to demonstrate the fact.


Twitter is the perfect medium for this move. Firstly you can close/hide your account so that people can’t easily expose your hypocrisy by pointing to all the times you’ve insulted them yourself. Helpfully, that also makes it a lot harder for sceptics to find any evidence of the bad things that have supposedly been said to you.

And with your own history wiped, it’s time to start rewriting it.


Barely 24 hours after flouncing off Twitter, you can have a column in the Times, in which you complain piteously (for money, natch) about “misrepresentation”, apparently having suffered a major self-awareness failure. You can bleat that a mild letters-page barb two years ago unleashed the hounds of Hell, or that being politely corrected by a politician amounts to a coded signal for a campaign of intimidation.

It’s important to emphasise that it’s never your fault for being wrong or deliberately provocative, of course. None of the subjects of your attacks, whether they be powerful politicians or powerless members of the public, are ever permitted legitimate anger in reaction to your provocation. They must simply endure it forever in meek silence, even when they’ve been obliged to pay for it through a legally-enforced licence fee.

They must ON NO ACCOUNT call you a “disgruntled walnut” or “angry Weetabix”, for example. The vacuous, dishonest, stupid, bullying cultist cyber-scum.



Congratulations! You’ve shaped public perception! Take the rest of the week off.


The worst attacks on David Torrance that anyone could show on Tuesday night were three tweets collated by – ironically – a highly abusive anonymous Unionist troll:


The first was in fact an ironic tweet from someone mocking the people who might talk that way. The second is undoubtedly pretty rude, but we’re not entirely convinced that “quisling prick” is orders of magnitude worse that “vacuous cybernat”. And the third was three weeks ago, so it’s a bit of a stretch to imagine it was what brought about his tearful fainting fit on Tuesday night.

And conspicuously, not a single one of them was actually addressed to Torrance or featured his Twitter @ tag, so the only way he’d have seen any of them at all was if he was searching for his own name. In 24 hours we have as yet found nothing nasty enough to conceivably merit a diva-esque walkout.

Social media is an open forum, on which other people have as much power as you. If you put yourself there, you better be prepared to deal with the reactions you elicit from people by what you do. That doesn’t mean you have to tolerate abuse – there are a wide range of built-in tools which can filter and block messages – but it does mean that you’re down in the stalls with everyone else, not pontificating from the safety of a media tower. You have to fight your corner.

It’d be easy to say that people like Torrance (and his thinkalike chum Chris Deerin of the Daily Mail, who also performed a loud Twexit last year, before scuttling back barely a week later) were simply a bunch of weedy snivelling hypocrites, delighted to dish it out but pathetically unable to take it.

But that would be too kind a judgement. Articles like the one in the Times today are part of a desperate and deliberate rearguard action against the democratisation of opinion, and an attempt to delegitimise anyone who would challenge the status quo.

The political landscape is shifting faster than anyone can keep up with, and those who see themselves as gatekeepers, interpreting events for the benefit of the poor dumb plebs, live in terror of being rendered obsolete by change and by ridicule. Any voices ranged against them must be tainted and discredited, painted as a vicious lynchmob of thugs and bullies. There’s no shortage of eager and willing mouthpieces.




The snide, sneering sarcasm is merely the house style. But engagement is precisely what Torrance and his ilk fear, because engagement means debate and debate means that people might expose all the holes in your arguments – the ones the Herald’s comment editors instantly delete in that nice safe walled and controlled environment.

In the light of an epic track record of spectacular wrongness, readers and viewers and listeners are increasingly realising that most political commentors are clueless and therefore pointless. They actually know nothing about politics, only the self-reinforcing circle-jerk outlook of their own tiny social clique of other hacks.

And with the media serving as the front line of the No campaign – more so than ever now that Scottish Labour has been left a shattered, broken mess by the last one – that would be a catastrophic loss for the Union.

So expect this routine to be played out many more times over the coming months and years (not just against independence, but also Jeremy Corbyn and anything else perceived as a threat to the existing order). Because the one thing that can never be allowed to happen is normal people being allowed to speak and think for themselves.

The formula is like a vaccine, to be deployed in greater and greater doses because the electorate (or as they’re seen by the punditariat, the virus) is developing immunity. And that, rather than a couple of nutters with placards outside a Tunnocks factory, is the “Scottish resistance” that has them quaking in their shoes.

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  1. 04 08 16 16:57

    The Formula | speymouth

  2. 05 08 16 14:12

    The Formula | Stuff from the Internet |

  3. 28 05 17 13:09

    What the creator of Millifandom tells us about the attempts to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn | My Little Underground

449 to “The Formula”

  1. Ruby says:

    The Americans call it a sweater vest!

  2. heraldnomore says:

    Quite magnificent Stu. I’m assuming our hero will be wanting an autographed copy for his collection.

  3. Rab Dickson says:

    One of your best yet…..absolutely wonderful take-down of the pompous little arse.

  4. Skip_NC says:

    So David Torrance wrote a valedictory tweet? I think the first four letters of that are superfluous.

    Does that make me an abusive cybernat troll?

  5. Lucifer says:

    David Torrance = nomark best to be ignored

  6. shug says:

    The wider truth is the MSM and their supporting commentators, I can’t call them journalists, are an affront to a democratic society. They have consistently supported and defended blatant untruths. Their demise or exit is no loss.

    However his comments about ‘Ulsterisation’ were interesting. There are two distinct groups in Scotland. The UKOK (can do no wrong)and yes supporters. If you want to see the cultural difference see the Independence supporters in George Square and Unionists at Ibrox.

    Yes has to break down the reasons they see ‘no wrong’ coming out of Westminster if yes2 is to win

    UKOK supporters have to see that Westminster hold them with contempt and care nothing for their interests.

    Interesting challenge

  7. Malky says:

    “The punditariat”. Love it.

  8. Clapper57 says:

    David Torrance morphs into David Intolerance.

  9. Macart says:

    That’s a keeper.

    Cracking post.

  10. Dan Huil says:

    Professional political pundits are getting more and more desperate. They realize their self-importance is being rightfully degraded on a daily basis by intelligent internet commentators. Britnat newspapers and television still demand a haughty respect to which they are clearly not entitled, hence the hissy fits from britnat journalists. People like Torrance and McTernan are just not good enough at their jobs. The more they realize this the more they demand attention. Silly little boys.

  11. Angela says:

    I took your advice about a year ago, to read everything from start to finish…a lesson in life I’m thankful for but I really enjoyed reading this, thanks.

  12. Martin Richmond says:

    Stuart, what an utterly self-indulgent, deluded load of old bollocks.
    When you’ve recovered from your lovers tiff with Mr. Torrance (which looks like it won’t be for a while) I recommend you re-read this “formula” and ask yourself how much of it you have applied to your own little operation.

  13. heedtracker says:

    Torrance the Disgruntled Walnut is really good. He’ll sneak back, and then he’ll leave and on it’ll go, toryboy style.

    Combine UK media’s relentless monstering of Scots and JC voters that wont vote how the Disgruntled Walnut says, with tory BBC led media shrieking Scotland’s a shithole with SNP at us, all makes for rather creepy stuff though.

    Classic Disgruntled Walnut puffery , rancid The Graun style. Graun’s toryboys do like their Scottish tories alright.

  14. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Hmmm, I wonder if Torrance is the very first BritNat meeja propagandist to realise that the rubbish he writes is actually counter-productive to his cause…

    …no, not that degree of self-awareness…?

    …surely not…?

  15. Marcia says:

    I conducted a snapshot of the mood on the nation this morning. Well it was with a few pensioners at the Pensioners Club when enjoying a cup of tea. I asked them what they thought of David Torrance? Blank faces all around. One did say that her relative in Kirkcaldy said he was a good MSP. There you have it folks. Nobody cares.

  16. Cadogan Enright says:

    Hi all

    I saw the latest A and E stat for Scotland and the famous 4 hour wait – 95.6% versus target of 95

    I have been googling for the equvalent in the other 4 nations with no luck so far

    I have been wanting to get them out there before the like of Torrence or the BBC manipulates them

  17. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

    A fantastic unravelling of the Fair Isle nitwit.

  18. Iain says:

    His income depends on being noticed. Some years ago, he admitted that he had moved to London in search of work, but the landslide electoral success of the SNP and the Referendum have been lucky for someone always available. The recent flurry of attention-seeking abuse suggests that the career is not advancing as well as he would like. The problem is that people see him as a chatterer, not someone to be taken seriously, and his outbursts confirm that.

  19. thingy says:

    The evisceration of an egotistical blowhard. Splendid.

    Top photo – Horace Broon.

  20. ScottishPsyche says:

    This article needs to be used as an answer every time Daisley et al come to Torrance’s defence.

    Torrance is one of the most opportunistic of his breed but what is most annoying is that he is actually a very poor analyst and writer.

  21. Wulls says:

    Love the bit about political commentators being useless.
    The thing is they should stick to commentating ie passing an opinion on something.
    It’s when they try to make forecasts they make complete arses of themselfs.
    Hotershall is now a widely acclaimed idiot (largely by his own hand)
    There are more but the childish crap Torrence is coming out with indicates he is vying for the pack leader job.
    In a pack of disrespectfull manipulative, lying arseholes that’s quite an ambition.

  22. Dennis Nicholson says:

    I suppose it was necessary to combat the twat Torrance as you have above, but I can’t help feeling it was all a terrible waste of your valuable time…

  23. Jack Murphy says:

    Mr Torrance writes in his Blog:-
    “About Me”:-
    “……………… a year and a half working as Parliamentary Aide to the Shadow Scottish Secretary David Mundell at the House of Commons.”

    I suppose that may,just may make him a Tory.

  24. Ian MacDonald says:

    Torrance is claiming that he has been misrepresented on his ‘Scottish Six’ appearance. So what exactly was the point he was trying to make? For the life of me I can’t see anything deeper than the ‘too stupid’ line that has been rightly mocked.

  25. annie says:

    Spot on.

  26. Bob Mack says:

    @Martin Richmond,

    At least the Rev stays to fight his corner.

  27. CageyBee says:

    I am keen to know what the line in the sand is between me being a “useful Idiot” and a “Vile Cybernat” especially as I now have a bag For life proclaiming me to already be a “Vile Cybernat” .
    Yours in the hope of being “Useful”

  28. dramfineday says:

    Brilliant, thank you Stuart.

  29. Quentin Quale says:

    That’s quite a list of media outlets paying for David Torrance’s musings. It’s been said that some journalists are just intellectual prostitutes. Well, it seems Torrance is halfway there.

  30. Jim Thomson says:

    I was astonished (yes, that word is still available for use) when DT sat spouting his deep technical, and operational, knowledge of broadcast media for all to hear and appreciate.

    The only appreciation it actually brought though, was of his own shallow self importance.

    I would dearly love to know what actually brought about his curtailing of twitter output. My own best guess is that it is simply to get his article “click rate” up and so bolster his own potential earnings. He probably doesn’t have any other means of income because he is, more than likely, talent-less and unskilled in any real workplace or business sense.

    If anyone sees a direct link to his MSM outpourings, best not click on that. If someone else has provided an archived version, fill yer boots.

    Let’s not encourage the his trolling behaviour.

  31. heedtracker says:

    Why the tories will always need the Disgruntled Walnut and his creepy chums, in all Scottish newsrooms.

    Theresa May has been dragged further into the controversy about honours after it emerged that her leadership campaign was given £35,000 by two Tory donors put forward for a knighthood and peerage by David Cameron.

    May’s campaign received £15,000 from Ian Taylor, the oil executive at Vitol and funder of the pro-EU campaign, who asked not to be given an honour following an outcry over Cameron’s list.”

  32. Hamish McTavish says:

    @Martin Richmond 3:18pm

    Hi David, how are you today? Feeling better?

  33. Gary45% says:

    Aye Weetabix McWeetabix face certainly gets noticed in that cracking tank top.
    ( A total “cereal” trumpet)

    As always cracking post Stu.

  34. Camz says:

    I honestly have nothing positive to say about David Torrance. He pedals opinion as fact and facts as negative propaganda.

    Would have more respect for him if he declared his political interests.

  35. Marcia says:

    Oh dear. It is coming back to me know. Some time ago on a different thread there was a picture of him in his bedroom wearing a ‘Scottish Resistance’ tee-shirt. I remarked at the time his bedroom was an absolute mess, very untidy indeed, most unhygienic . If that has driven him off twitter then I do apologise.

  36. Garrion says:

    What a delightful soul. What I really like about him, apart from the political and spiritual similarity to Anne Coulter, is his earnest contributions and suggestions to the real and actual problems and opportunities that Scotland has and the SNP are doing something about.

    Oh wait.

  37. JM says:

    There is a telling irony in that journionists like Torrance, Daisley, Deerin et al see themselves as the amplifiers and champions of public opinion, yet the last people they want to engage with are members of the public with an opinion. I guess journalism was easier when you could spew out 6,000 words of twaddle and assume the reader agreed with every word. No means to disagreed equalled no disagreement.

    Torrance hasn’t flounced off Twitter, he has returned to the glory days unargued self-righteousness.

  38. Thane says:

    Meh, I’ve said far worse about Torrance, they just didn’t look far enough back.

    He’s a faux-intellectual hipster douche – that particular comment was when we was trying to convince an audience down in London that he’d faced Jo Cox levels of political violence during indyref because if what he writes about “The Nats”

    The boy’s a rank arsehole & his patter is mince.

  39. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I suppose it was necessary to combat the twat Torrance as you have above, but I can’t help feeling it was all a terrible waste of your valuable time…”

    Had anything else been going on I wouldn’t have. But it’s a really slow news day, and it’s a useful future generic reference point.

  40. Sunshine on Crieff says:

    Saw him in the flesh at the Holyrood launch of English Scots for Yes in the run up to the referendum. He had cycled to the event and, on seeing him, he immediately reminded me of that other oddball that used to stalk the powerful and famous a few years ago: Dennis Pennis! (Look him up on YouTube).

  41. Chas Clark says:

    Good one Stu, well done.

    The vast majority of these ‘journalists’ have sunk below the level of the gutter press. They peddle insidious propaganda in a fraudulent manner and are a disgrace to their trade. It amazes me there aren’t more honorable and experienced individuals getting together to offer a true alternative.

    Same goes for bankers and Labour MPs.

    What a mess we’re in.

  42. Big jock says:

    How does Torrance think in anyway shape or form that you start a debate by insulting the people you disagree with. I fundamentally disagreed with everything Cameron did when PM. I detest his party’s right wing agenda. But I can’t think of any occasion where I personally insulted him on twitter and ran away.

    Some unionists wish to insult and condemn rather than debate. Then they are surprised when people stand up to their abuse and bite back. Salmond who is a moderate left leaning person. Has been compared to every dictator that ever lived. There is no truth in the insults in fact he is the opposite he is a democrat. But why let the truth get in the way of a good insult or your agenda. It’s like me calling Theresa May a leftie or Marxist. It’s a good insult but has no bearing on reality. The SNP are the most left wing mainstream party in the UK. Yet Salmond and Sturgeon are compared to dictators! Lazy ,lazy venomous journalism. Torrance does not have a shred of decency, insight or credibility.

  43. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I recommend you re-read this “formula” and ask yourself how much of it you have applied to your own little operation.”

    Yawn. I block abusive people, I retweet any especially funny ones, I alert Twitter/the police to any apparent genuine threats and I get on with my day.

    I expect there to be rudeness on the internet, and I freely admit that I contribute some of it myself on occasion. It’s just words, ffs. Unlike Mr Torrance, though, I’m not a massive fucking hypocrite about it. You won’t see me flouncing off sobbing into my hanky because some wee Loyalist bedwetter (or emeritus professor from Edinburgh) called me nasty names, as happens at least a hundred times every single day.

  44. Bob Mack says:

    It is funny to note that we have a Tory clique masquerading as Brian Spanner. That is the connection between them all Tory leanings. They are as vulgar and crass as any cybernat I have ever met or read,.
    However,they have to hide behind pseudonyms. They are not brave enough as you have witnessed by David boy trying to get out of the glare when challenged.

    They are also mindful of tank commander Ruthie being averse to being associated with their out of hour activities. Cowards every one. Tory cowards. Spoilt wee boys who run and clipe to their dad when pulled up by Joe public.

    I wouldn’t want them on my side in a tight corner. They are the guys who start a fight then go “to get help” leaving you to get on with it. I despise them.

  45. Andrew McLean says:

    Marcia, the problem this boy has is that his core audience, his peer group, will think him a bit soft, after all they lived through the War, had fathers lost, or friends or relations killed in battle, so him saying that someone called him a name , like walnut face, won’t endear him at the local pensioners club, more likely some old dear will slap his privileged puss!
    I actual have spent far too much time commenting on this nonentity , but as a valedictory, can I relate an actual conversation I had today with a real living person, we spoke using speech and face to face, I will call this new mode of communication “Face Time”.
    I was doing me usual, leaning against something sturdy to take my weight, when a bloke passed and asked me what was so funny, I explained about the twitter exchange, and about the “victim”, “oh” he said, “FWP”, “What” ? “FWP” he said,” what’s that”? “Well my wife says it like this, right now somewhere in the world a woman is actually trying to rip her own heart out with her fingers, as she screams over her dead child’s body, at the same time a man is shouting cause a kid has accidently hit his car with a ball, and his wife is shouting because she has spilled a drink on her new dress”.
    “FFS, mate” I said “that’s bloody grim!”, “Yes”, he said “that’s third world problems, compared to first world”!
    I think I like the false world of twitter better than real life, hurt in the real world seams a lot more painful, and well, real!

  46. One_Scot says:

    Sigh, if only the rest of the knuckle dragging cyberyoons would disappear so easily.

    Having said that, they’ll probably all have a go at the drama ‘exit slash return’ agenda for maximum Yoon ‘look at me, I’m a victim’ publicity.

  47. DaveL says:

    Hi Rev, I enjoyed reading that, he well deserves it. Thanks.

    Effijy @ 3.31 when I read the fluffy connection I started to wonder if they ever shared their lunch…”Two ‘sliver of sardine’ for a crumb of mince David”?

  48. Takeour blueback says:

    Brilliant work sir.

    He’ll be back within the week on Twitter or else: in a year, we’ll be asking David who? And searching on the Wings site for a mention of him, only to find this article making us smile again.

    *Round of applause*


  49. Gullane No 4 says:

    The only time I have heard,read or seen any remarks or print by this guy Torrance is on here.
    Have I led a sheltered life, or am I watching/reading/listening to the wrong things?

    This stushie sounds a bit personal.

  50. Robert Bryce says:

    This is quite simply a thing of beauty & a joy to behold.

  51. Effijy says:

    As posted yesterday, I have some news from George, the chap who initiated the petition against Blatant BBC Bias, against Scottish Independence.

    I can share some of the comments that he sent me below:

    “Firstly, OFCOM are not interested in issues such as this! The BBC are, to all intents and purposes, self regulating. When I contacted them about bias reporting and this petition they directed me to BBC trust who in turn simply replied “no. there was no bias”.

    I can empathise with George as I have taken things up to the highest BBC level possible, but their UKOK Computer says No.

    The so Called !Trust at the BBC is the Criminal, the Jury, and Judge. They are just Tory Toffs destined to rule over us from an untouchable position.

    Their number includes Rona Fairhead, who held one of the senior roles at the HSBC Bank that was found to be Money Laundering and encouraging Tax avoidance.
    She only gets £110,000 per annum at the BEEB for popping in to say No to the plebs accusations of corruption.
    Well you could give a Tory Toff who lives next door to ITV’s fictional Downton Abbey.

    As Westminster, the BBC, Ofcom and England in general don’t give a Damn about Scotland, Democracy, or the Petition, we hope to send 100,000 signatures to the Scottish Government as yet further proof that Scotland knows their game and that we will not allow it to continue.

    It may also land on a desk in the Hague as I cannot see why this corrupt establishment is not held accountable through normal channels.

    So far, Scotland has 90,630 Signatures that say the BBC IS
    Blatantly Biased. What do you have to say?

  52. heedtracker says:

    Martin Richmond says:
    4 August, 2016 at 3:18 pm
    Stuart, what an utterly self-indulgent, deluded load of old bollocks.

    Well you can hardly argue with the end Martin?

    “So expect this routine to be played out many more times over the coming months and years (not just against independence, but also Jeremy Corbyn and anything else perceived as a threat to the existing order). Because the one thing that can never be allowed to happen is normal people being allowed to speak and think for themselves.”

    Don’t you find yourself listening, reading and watching UKOK tory meeja shite and wondering and wishing you could emigrate, to anywhere that’s owned by toryboys, its that shite and run by the most awful con-artists, like the Disgruntled Walnut?

  53. heedtracker says:

    Martin Richmond says:
    4 August, 2016 at 3:18 pm
    Stuart, what an utterly self-indulgent, deluded load of old bollocks.

    Well you can hardly argue with the end Martin?

    “So expect this routine to be played out many more times over the coming months and years (not just against independence, but also Jeremy Corbyn and anything else perceived as a threat to the existing order). Because the one thing that can never be allowed to happen is normal people being allowed to speak and think for themselves.”

    Don’t you find yourself listening, reading and watching UKOK tory meeja shite and wondering and wishing you could emigrate, to anywhere that’s NOT owned by toryboys, its that shite and run by the most awful con-artists, like the Disgruntled Walnut?

  54. wee folding bike says:

    Ohhhh bugger. Brompton enthusiast.

    Well I don’t care, they’re still great bikes. He can’t ruin that for me. I don’t ride mine in a tank top, more likely a Madness t-shirt or one with a skull playing a harmonica.

  55. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Putting the hilarious banter aside for a tick, Torrance deserves to face serious questioning over what he’s written.

    Most of what he writes appears to be basic SNP-bad guff and some is just sheer sophistry based on circular reasoning and wobbly metaphors. Fair do’s – he’s got to write something. But the ‘Ulsterisation’ stuff is dangerous. I’m not aware of anyone in the MSM directly calling him out over such reckless drivel.

  56. liz says:

    Dear God, all that work to get noticed but the good thing is the people who have heard of him think he is a total clueless idiot.

    Now with his twexit, he comes across as a namby pamby wee wean, as well as a total, clueless idiot

  57. Robert Peffers says:

    Best to ignore the poor sod. I must confess I always have ignored him.

  58. Andrew McLean says:

    Third world Problems for a first world slow news day

    The Syrian Network for Human Rights recently published a report detailing the death toll in Syria throughout July 2016. The total deaths included 1557 civilian victims. Over 1,000 of which at the hands of the Regime and Russian forces.

    The largest civilian causalities were at the hands of the Syrian Regime, with a total of 769 civilians, including 253 children and 197 women throughout July 2016. The second largest portion of civilian casualties were at the hands of Russian forces, with a total of 239 civilians, including 66 women and 105 children. They also report 156 victims fell as a result of ISIS, including 33 children and 14 women.

    In addition to the casualties within Syria, the SNHR also detailed the drowning of fleeing refugee’s over sea’s or bombing. They documented 97 civilians, including 36 children and 39 women.

    As part of their report, the SNHR calls for the Security Council and international entities to do their part in stopping the acts against civilians, especially those perpetrated by the Syrian Regime.

    Least we forget, “in the going down of the sun and in the morning”


  59. wee folding bike says:

    Phew… A quick Google finds that he uses a Brompton M3R. I don’t have one of those and it’s not a great choice for using in Scotland.

  60. ronnie anderson says:


    Tribute to Trump Oh Shit lol.

  61. Sweep says:

    @Quentin Quale 3:34 pm

    I was trying to come up with a half decent monicker for the poor snowflake to help soothe his wounded ego. I thought perhaps something big and manly, such as David “Big Man” Torrance, perhaps.

    However, having been inspired by your post, and that of @Iain 3:26 pm, I think I have it:

    “The always available David Torrance”.

  62. One_Scot says:

    ‘The only time I have heard,read or seen any remarks or print by this guy Torrance is on here.’

    From the little I have seen of him, he just talks crap. He tends to say what he would like to happen rather than what is reality, so to be honest you have not missed out on anything.

  63. Thepnr says:

    This line about “political commentators” what is that?

    I suppose not so long ago it applied only to media journalists both on the telly and in the papers. Now that the plebs have become “political commentators” in their own right I can only guess that a few journalists have had their noses put out of joint and don’t like it one bit.

    Everyone posting here is now a “political commentator”, so too those expressing an opinion on various newspaper website. We now have an opinion on politics and those that read Wings get to see what they are. Our voices are becoming louder and more noticeable while “theirs” are weakening along with their influence.

    I intend to keep commenting on politics that affect me and everyone around me and if the likes of Mr Torrance decide to take the huff then all the better.

    David Torrance’s own vacuous comments about Scots and Scotland are what caused him to quit Twitter not non existent cybernat abuse as he claims.

  64. Peter A Bell says:



  65. galamcennalath says:

    Good stuff!

    “… readers and viewers and listeners are increasingly realising that most political commentors are clueless …. And with the media serving as the front line of the No campaign … that would be a catastrophic loss for the Union.”

    Indeed. Fast evaporating are the days when a political pundit would explain it all to the plebs who would take that explanation as a fair appraisal of a situation.

    Looks like the pro Union block in IndyRef2 will essentially comprise a damaged and discredited media along side the Ruth ‘Not Really Tory’ Davidson Party, backed up by London mischief making behind the scenes. A motley crew, for sure.

  66. Proud Cybernat says:

    And, of course, Rev., unlike the BritNatz (remember how they would never turn up for public debates during IndyRef#1 in order to shut down debate?), WoS will afford Mr Torrance the right to reply (should he so wish). That’s because on this side of the debate, Mr Torrance, we are bigger people and, unlike your side, have nothing to fear from open debate.

    You have a lot to learn, Mr Torrance. Not only will you be on the wrong side of the debate, you will find yourself on the wrong side of history. And redundant.

  67. Big jock says:

    Which leads to the question. How much damage can the UK inflict on Scotland before the loyalists change their minds? The answer is there is nothing. They will support the UK when they are on a drip in hospital on their last legs! These people are anesthetised to the pain inflicted upon their nation and it’s democracy.

    They will be dragged kicking and screaming to independence. Thank God some of us can see and fight for democracy everyday.

  68. David Wardrope says:

    Superb article, well played sir.

    The irony of folks like Daisley, who throw in their 2 pence worth, using exactly the same tone as those nasty cybernat “attackers” is off the chart. Of course, we can’t highlight that point to them (even nicely) as we become vile for even daring to converse with the ‘media elite’

  69. HandandShrimp says:

    David may look like he is from Happy Days but he is no Fonz.

    He has however jumped the shark.

    This level of trolling is almost at attention seeking level and may be more to do with David’s profile level than any attempt to help the Yoons. In truth I think David would happily throw the Yoons under a bus if it raised his career profile…..doesn’t make him a bad person 🙂

  70. Iain More says:

    I enjoyed that put down of the loathsome Brit Nat toady walnut Torrance. It is thoroughly deserved in the case of the peeved walnut.

    OT now

    The bullying tactics employed by the BBC against an outspoken Yes supporter in Andy Robertson are of course acceptable to the Brit Nats and illustrates for me another reason just why the BBC must go. Especially when it is okay for individuals like a certain alleged historian that they have employed is allowed to slag off with impunity those that just happen to pay their wages.

  71. G H Graham says:

    David Torrance should stick to golf.

    No, hang on.

    Sorry, I’m confusing him with someone who has real talent.

  72. Taranaich says:

    I would be happy if this was the last thing ever written about David Torrance: it’s absolutely perfect. Everything he writes is a simple variation of the great childhood phrase: “NO YOU.”

    When he writes something incredibly stupid, & people suggest he is intellectually vacuous (as I have on a few occassions, prompted by his seemingly wilful lack of critical thinking beyond the basest level), his response is “no, friend, it is you who is intellectually vacuous.”

    When he writes a spiteful and borderline libellous screed, & people suggest he is being provocative and offensive, he responds “on the contrary, it is you who is being nasty and abusive.”

    This part always gets me:

    “… while Yes Scotland’s Project Fear was wrong on almost every front, better Together’s was more or less bang on…”

    1. Please list which items of “Yes Scotland’s Project Fear” were wrong.

    2. How can we possibly know which of Better Together’s Project Fear were “more or less bang on” when we are not independent? The entire point is that BT’s PF was about what would happen if Scotland became independent. Yes Scotland’s “Project Fear,” whatever that is, would surely have been based on what would happen if Scotland remained in the UK.

    We have no way of knowing if BT’s PF would’ve been right or wrong because WE ARE NOT INDEPENDENT RIGHT NOW. We DO, however, have an idea of whether Yes Scotland were right or not, because WE. ARE. NOT. INDEPENDENT. RIGHT. NOW.

    It’s really simple, yet Mr Torrance cannot, or will not, understand:

    “If we stay in the UK, these bad things will happen, but if we become independent, these good things will happen” – Yes Scotland

    “If we become independent, these bad things will happen, but if we stay in the UK, these good things will happen” – Better Together

    Only one of these two situations can be tested, to see which was “bang on” or not. And oh, look at this, someone wrote a freaking book about it.

    I don’t care whether Mr Torrance stays or goes. I do care about the “winners” of the indyref constantly evading the consequences of their “victory.”

  73. ronnie anderson says:

    Torrance should fold up his tent same as he folds up his wee foldy bike an fek off.

  74. galamcennalath says:

    David Wardrope says:

    “we become vile for even daring to converse with the ‘media elite’”

    Yes indeed.

    Apart from the cause they fight, there is an issue of status and prestige. They are the professionals, the elite, full of entitlement and exceptionalism. And on the level playing field of Twitter, that all evaporates. They become just one more angry Unionist, fearful as they watch their world dissolve like sna’ aff a dyke.

  75. Another Union Dividend says:

    Hamish McTavish at 3:38 pm

    @Martin Richmond 3:18pm

    “Hi David, how are you today? Feeling better?”

    Is Martin not Edinburgh’s irrepressible letter writer Martin Redfern?

  76. E A Cameron says:

    I am surprised that so many take Torrance so seriously.

    His Salmond biography, written in Sep 2010, ends with the prediction that Salmond will step down as SNP leader in a year’s time after he has lost the 2011 election.

    His Sturgeon biography, in Jan 2015, concludes that Sturgeon will need to develop a coherent ideology if the SNP is ever to replace Labour as the natural party of government in Scotland.

    Both his conclusions were soon overtaken by electoral events

  77. David McCann says:

    Absolutely one to savour! A brilliant deconstruction of Torrance’s self centred, self righteous, self important right to dish it out, whilst at the same time, brooking no dissent from the great unwashed cybernattery!

  78. wee folding bike says:

    Careful now Ronnie! I was round your bit in my big nasty car earlier so no messing with folding bikes.

    Oooops, that might come across as a bit threatening. I’ll stick to the bike.

  79. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Gullane No 4 @ 15:55:

    […] am I watching/reading/listening to the wrong things?

    If you have missed him, you’re probably watching/reading/listening to the right things!

    Not least the BBC. In that regard I believe that there is more to this latest spat than first meets the eye. Torrance’s antipathy to a “Scottish 6”, shared by all his fellow BritNats, is actually not new. Which is why he was chosen to go on the telly by someone upstairs in BBC News who wanted a voice to oppose the recent recommendation made by an HoC committee.

    Without the BBC’s beloved “balance” on the issue, please note.

    Torrance has been the BBC’s goto yoon rentaquote, but after a bad audience reaction to the anti-Scottish smear, has been hung out to dry by them. Maybe that’s really why he has flounced off in a huff now.

  80. Almannysbunnet says:

    Lots of people make a fanny of themselves on TV. Torrance has a unique way of doing so in such a cock sure and condescending manner. Some people on twitter said aloud what Clive Myrie, the interviewer, was thinking. Clive has called someone a dickhead live on TV before so Torrance got off lightly as Myrie was probably biting his lip this time.
    The best thing to come out of it so far is the response above from Stuart, absolutely spot on.
    The Torrance bubble was burst by hundreds of what he would call little pricks on twitter. Isn’t it great when the reader can fight back! They don’t like it up em Capt Mainwaring they don’t like it up em.

  81. Iain More says:

    It is I find the usual tactic of a bully to play the victim with an eye on winning an Oscar or a BAFTA. They don’t like it up them Capt. Mannering. Torrance certainly didn’t like him. The Brit Nats don’t tolerate anybody standing up to them.

  82. One_Scot says:

    All joking aside, is anyone running a sweepstake on how many days ‘@davidtorrance does not exist’ will actually be true for.

  83. Les Wilson says:

    How someone who made a living from “unauthorised biographies” even became a political known political pundit is beyond my ken!.

    The Yoons always have to seek out compliant voices, I guess that must be it, and of course that meets his self promotion ideas perfectly.
    Knowing Yoonery advocates, will be need for a while yet, he has found a good source for “work” himself to cling to,in the hope of being Somebody!.

    After Indy2, he will become a renown “Expert”, and superb political pundit. He known Scotland will not cut it for him, but he will be asked for thoughts in Yoonland, to satisfy the their opinions of Scotland.
    Here in our country, no one pays the slightest bit of attention to him, and he knows it.

    Must be difficult when your a nobody wanting to be a somebody.

  84. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Yon Mararet Hilda Roberts had the right idea, deny them the oxygen of publicity.

    A simple: “Aye Right Davie” comment might work.

  85. Les Wilson says:

    Sorry a couple of typo’s in last post.

  86. Sinky says:

    Note to UKOK political commentators… Johnston Press shares fall to all time low.

    The company said in its interim report that it had wiped £217m off the carrying value of its local newspapers, around 46% of the total, to reflect current trading performance and reduced growth expectations.

    It meant that at a statutory level, Johnston Press reported a first half pre-tax loss of £183.7m.

    The heavy impairment was unveiled alongside trading that missed even grim expectations for the debt-laden publisher.

  87. wee folding bike says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:
    4 August, 2016 at 4:39 pm
    Yon Mararet Hilda Roberts had the right idea, deny them the oxygen of publicity.

    The late Linda Smith had an even simpler idea. Deny them the oxygen of oxygen.

    Hmmmm, might upset some people of course.

  88. Inverclyder says:

    OT Every cloud….

    Johnston Press shares plunge to all-time low after massive writedown

    Yorkshire Post and Scotsman publisher reports £184m pre-tax loss after wiping 40% off the value of its local newspapers

  89. Luigi says:

    This is the journalistic (Ha) equivalent of Murphy’s egg.

    POOR ME! 🙁

    Pity yhe did not learn from JM. Crude attention seeking and victim playing ultimately results in self harm (not that anyone will notice).

  90. Linda McFarlane says:

    Got my badges today – Yippee!

    As I lovingly pinned the black “Vile Cyber Natz” one on, I thought of Torrance. What a silly boy he is. His antics have helped this almost 60 year old “auld wifie” to be a Strong Independance Voter.

    Thanks David – for making sure I haven’t turned out like you.

  91. tony O'neill says:

    I think one of mi5’s usefull idiots has sat the dummy oot lol.J ust like a bad dose of the shits he will be back.

  92. Marie Clark says:

    Oh dear Mr Torrance. Have you no heard that old Scottish adage ” if it’s no ill tae gie, it’s no ill tae tak. Petit wean.

    Great article Rev, thoroughly enjoyed it. Well done sir.

  93. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “His Salmond biography, written in Sep 2010, ends with the prediction that Salmond will step down as SNP leader in a year’s time after he has lost the 2011 election.”

    Please tell me you’ve got a picture of that page 😀

  94. Onwards says:

    Giving it a month before he is back.
    Attention whores love the drama.

    “After all the encouragement from well-wishers, I have decided not to be silenced by nasty cybernats. Now here is a link to my latest hypocritical rant”

  95. Alan Moore says:

    Stu, my hat goes off to you, you’ve nailed it there! Absolutely perfect summing up

  96. heedtracker says:

    Might sign this. A whole hour of the Bird and toodle oo the noo is probably worse than a water boarding. “I’m now joined by a Disgruntled Walnut, David, isn’t Scotland shite?” “Good evening Jacky, yes Scotland really is shite, but like you I love Scotland too, its just that its so shite, and we cant even point a tv camera properly let alone have our own currency, and those cybernats eh?”

    Thank you David Torrance.

  97. Johnny Munro says:

    I fail to see how you could call yourself a journalist and NOT be on twitter Part of the job I would imagine?

  98. Dr Jim says:

    If you’re going to use every available media platform to directly insult people’s hopes dreams values and ambitions the least you can expect is that those same people who don’t have recourse to media platforms will find a way to express their irritation in whatever form is available to them

    This should demonstrate to all “Journalists” that their opinions are simply that, opinions, and no more or less valid than anyone else’s

    Political analysis and opinion by it’s very nature doesn’t make it a fact it only makes it something someone thought of

    Problem with “Journalists” is they think they’re the only learned enough people to voice a more informed opinion, which in itself is an arrogance too far and when they’re wrong, which is a lot of the time (even if they’re honest)they don’t want to admit it as they feel even being wrong is still preferable to being a punter

    People don’t need to be schooled in the written word to take offence, and take offence they should and good for them for doing it

    David Torrance and others of his despicable ilk deserve no more or less than they get and reap entirely what they sew

    If they stand by their billious scribblings or TV squawks as gospel and truth they should be able to repeat those same words in any pub cafe or street to the folk they enjoy denigrating in their various “Newspapers” and remember to take along a camera so we can all watch Police Scotland remove them from the premises for incitement

    I double dare them

  99. Smallaxe says:

    @ Mr Torrance and his ilk,(who are without doubt reading WOS!)

    To quote John Lennon,

    You can live a lie until you die,one thing you can’t hide is
    when your crippled inside.

  100. JM says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:

    4 August, 2016 at 4:39 pm

    “Yon Mararet Hilda Roberts had the right idea, deny them the oxygen of publicity”.

    Reading that name again reminds me of all the times I have read of how the young Mrs T learned all she knew about politics by being a simple shopkeeper’s daughter from Grantham. Well I lived through the destruction of her reign and the resulting devastation celebrated by blue and red tories alike, and I ain’t impressed.

    I commented on Wings a few days ago on how Thatcher changed the wealth equation from

    Wealth = Resources + Labour


    Wealth = Resources + Profit.

    I can only assume, from the state BS and it’s effects, that the young Margaret Hilda spent much of her childhood listening to her father rage that paying his employees was bleeding him dry.

  101. Mark Russell says:

    “So expect this routine to be played out many more times over the coming months and years (not just against independence, but also Jeremy Corbyn and anything else perceived as a threat to the existing order). Because the one thing that can never be allowed to happen is normal people being allowed to speak and think for themselves”

    You don’t say!

  102. ronnie anderson says:

    Torrance lunches at either the Tollbooth or Cannon’s Gait when he’s at Holyrood ,am no trolling him honest,but i’ll put the wind up him that people note these things

    Wee Foldy Bike man ,should that no be a BamPot foldy bike that Torrance rides.

  103. Thepnr says:

    Nice to see what’s left of the Labour Party activists in Scotland coming to the rescue of poor Tory David at his greatest time of need.

    According to Duncan Horthersall of Edingburgh Labour CLP, Torrance has been “hounded off twitter by useful idiots”. Who are those useful idiots Duncan? Care to name some or even one?

    The useful idiots apparently “believed liars who deliberately smeared him”. I do wonder who the liars were and what the alleged smears actually were. I note no mention of abuse just smears.

    That’s what remains of yer Labour Party right here in Scotland.

    An apologist for a right wing media hack who would talk down Scots and describes more than half the population as “vacuaous” and “intolerant” as well as stating that the “Ulsterisation of Scottish politics is complete”

    What a disgrace Torrance and Hothersall are to the majority of Scots.

  104. heedtracker says:

    Ooh there’s two

    “We would urge the BBC to resist these demands from the SNP as they are not the representative view. We would urge the BBC to continue to serve Scotland as it does now to ensure that we continue to receive the high quality and variety of programmes that we currently enjoy, including the UK 6 O’clock news”

    I do like cake. Watching people baking cake is also great. More cake programs and royals worshipping, and stuff about world war 2, and England winning the world cup in 1966, and the one show, its so shit it makes you get up off the couch and go outside. A national treasure.

  105. MRG says:

    I think the best turn of phrase to describe the witterings of Mr T and his ilk is “EGO TRIPE”.

  106. ronnie anderson says:

    Am posting to slowly.

    Make yer feking mind up, am ah Two finger typisst an they Two Fingers ur pointed upwards the noo. lol

  107. Proud Cybernat says:

    He really fancies that his sharp pen and wit will be the great slayer of the vile cybernats; that he, Davy Torrance, will be regarded by his Yoonyoonist acolytes and luvvies (you know who you are) as the ToryBoy (or is tha John-Boy) who single-handedly slayed those who see Indy as the best way to improve life for everyone in Scotland and, in return, will fawn all over him with the adulation he clearly craves and feels he thoroughly deserves.

    In short – a fud.

  108. Bill McLean says:

    Torrance is just the bottom end of the British Bullying Cohort comprised of inelegant and unintelligent “Reporters” and “correspondents. The bullying starts with Westminster, down through the “impartial” BBC, various non-entity lower end politicians and ending with the media whores and Torrances of this world. They all have one thing in common – they are bullies and when they are challenged they become what they are at the core of their being … “COWARDS”!!

  109. Robert Louis says:

    There is however, a deeper question that needs asked about the likes of Torrance. The media generally claims to represent the views of society, yet in Scotland it does nothing of the kind.

    At present trend polling data suggests just fractionally more people in Scotland support independence than oppose it. Even being generous and saying it is 50:50, we still cannot fail to see the massive disconnect between the bulk of the media in Scotland regarding independence, and reality. Day after day, silly anti independence story after another, with barely a pause for anything resembling coherent analysis.

    Twenty or thirty years ago, when support for independence was much lower, the media kind of matched how things were in reality – most people did NOT support independence. Now, here in 2016, with at least half of voting Scots supporting independence the media is completely out of touch.

    This I think, is the root of the problem. The media in Scotland is presenting viewpoints such as those espoused by Torrance, which really belong in a different decade. In effect the media has not/will not adapt to the altered political REALITY in Scotland.

    Torrance is just one voice among many in the unionist commentariat which dominates Scottish political media. They are from a time when such commentators could effectively ‘preach from on high’, immune from criticism, able to willfully insult and smear with impunity any and all people who support independence. Those days are gone, and it’s time they were too.

    I personally couldn’t care less if Torrance is off Twitter, in my mind he merely replays the same tired old unionist tosh we used to see 20 or 30 years ago in Scotland. Devoid of any apparent understanding of the political reality where most Scots actively now vote SNP, and where half the population support independence, his voice has become an irrelevant and frankly rather tiresome drone.

    Cogent political debate in Scotland has moved on and left the maddox’s and Torrance’s behind. They are yesterday’s men, punting tired and irrelevant insults regarding Scotland. By clinging to such outdated and cliched unionist argumentation, they have sealed their own fate in much the same way as has happened with the dying papers which employ them.

    Political reality is changing very quickly in Scotland and such people just haven’t kept up.

    We need new dynamic progressive pro independent writing and thinking in Scotland, which represents political reality, rather than some kind of wistful unionist nirvana from times of yore. Rule Britannia? Aye right.

    The sooner we see Scotland’s political reality reflected properly in OUR media in Scotland, the better – for Scotland AND the media.

  110. Andy-B says:

    I always saw David Torrance as a conceited little man, who’s own self insignifance, will mean one day he’ll disappear up his own arse.

    Will he be missed? I very much doubt it.

  111. chasanderson200 says:

    HandandShrimp 4:17

    Surely you meant “Happy Daze” rather than “happy days” in your reference to The Fonz!!!

  112. Andy-B says:

    Re my previous comment “Insignificance” my apologies.

  113. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Heedtracker 5.25pm (bbc petition) Geogina Sparrow = Uk union voice.

  114. Ashley Highfield who is CEO of the now near worthless Johnston Press (Scotsman) was a big name in the birth of digital media at the BBC,

    his main claim to fame/infamy at the BBC was DMI (Digital Media Initiative)

    it lost the BBC licence holders £100,000,000 before it was scrapped,

    the House of Commons Committee of Public Accounts defines the project as a “complete failure”

    he lost the BBC £100 fricken million,his project is called by UK Gov a complete failure,

    and yet he is asked by same UK Gov to be part of renewing the Royal Charter for the BBC which expires in Dec 2016,

    no wonder his newspapers are faithful campaigners for the Unionist Establishment.


    `a person who behaves obsequiously to those in power`.

  115. DerekM says:

    Nice one Rev lol

    Aye no BBC standard blah blah piss off to complaints on the internet.

    These scribblers(i refuse to call them journalists)seem to think that they have immunity and that the masses should not be responding to them except to agree,i blame the sheltered existance they have on the dead tree press who moderate everything to make it look like they have no criticism.

    So these big headed bawbags when online deserve to have their ego bust and a reality check that this is not the dead tree press and there is no mod going to rush to protect them from public scrutiny.

    Loved the weetabix number nearly bust a rib laughing at that one the other night 🙂

  116. frogesque says:

    If anything farts, makes a bad smell and produces shyte then its an earse.

    As for D. Torrentsofabuse, grow up you silly little boy!

  117. Only Unionist propaganda outlets would employ such an obnoxious choob and call him a “journalist”.

  118. CapnAndy says:

    Good article. Torrance really is a nonentity.
    And O.T.
    Got my badges today. Absolutely love them. So well presented I’m full of angst as to whether I should take them out of the packet.

  119. Macbeda says:

    I’m no on Twitter or Facebook. I do not watch BBC Scotland or STV news and I most definitely don’t read a paper.

    Who is this David Torrance?

    Was he somebody important or just an arsewipe? Euronews Der Spiegel and Die Welt for me.

    I can get by in German

  120. Bob Sinclair says:

    JM says:
    4 August, 2016 at 5:22 pm
    Socrates MacSporran says:

    4 August, 2016 at 4:39 pm

    “Yon Mararet Hilda Roberts had the right idea, deny them the oxygen of publicity”.

    I’d rather deny them the oxygen of oxygen.

  121. Vestas says:

    Anything which has Daisley, Farquarson & Hothersall whining can’t be anything but good for normal people 🙂

  122. ronnie anderson says:


    Bill Cowan stv reporting on a escaped prisoner to G4s officer,s assaulted Bill Cowan out.

    G4s employee’s arent officers Ronnie Anderson reporting to WOS out.

  123. Artyhetty says:

    Excellent thanks for a great article.

    The britnat press are doing their utmost to portray Scotland and Scottish independence supporters as rabid, intolerant idiots. It isn’t going well for them, and they have nothing else to say because that might involve intelligent analysis, even criticism of their westminster masters.

    What an awful way to earn your pay, telling lies, distorting truths, and doing down your own country, day in day out. Living a lie must be very destructive.

  124. David Mills says:

    I have little option but ignore this brackfast cereal of a man as I like, as far as I am aware, everyone like everyone who oppion even slightly no aligned to him am block.

    I am not know for sweary rants, offensive name calling on threats.
    Analysis dismantley and of course Sarcasm (my first language)

    I like to thank those that draft fizzing swivel eye anti-independence diatribes in a please and supportive tone.

    “Thank for your good works in promoting the cause of Scottish Independence” and intreechment to continue

    I beleave David “walnut” Torrance block me in responces to one of those.

    He is a petty little tory more to be pitied that scorned

  125. Martin Richmond says:

    @Stuart Campbell 3:50

    In know you’re tired and it’s difficult, but I hope you’ll be able to make a fuller, more self aware assessment when you feel better.

  126. Bill says:

    “a growing population is a necessary ingredient for economic progress”

  127. Sweep says:

    @ Dr Jim 5:20 pm

    “If they stand by their billious scribblings or TV squawks as gospel and truth they should be able to repeat those same words in any pub cafe or street to the folk they enjoy denigrating in their various “Newspapers” and remember to take along a camera so we can all watch Police Scotland remove them from the premises for incitement.”

    Spot on.

  128. Slackshoe says:

    Nailed it. Some of your first work Stu.

  129. Slackshoe says:

    *finest (stupid autocorrect)

  130. Tamson says:

    I normally have little time for Murray Foote of the Record, but he stuck the boot in on Torrance quite beautifully on Twitter today.

    Nice to see journalists calling him out for a change.

  131. Bill says:

    Leaving the EU is the black hole of reason. The UK Treasury believes it will have a catastrophic effect on the economy. The politicians it will empower are horrific. The secondary repercussions (strife in Ulster, a renewed pull for Scottish independence etc.) are terrible. I am stunned this vote can attract 10% of opinion polls let alone a majority.

    Wake up

  132. ailsa craig says:

    In the overnight ITV/STV coverage of the 2015 General Election, which seemed to be held in a kind of railway carriage set up, Torrance was introduced on several occasions as ‘The expert on the SNP’ and ‘biographer of AS and NS’. His opinions were not required much after midnight as the Ukip/Tory show in England began. Saw it on YouTube as I was on holiday, in between using ‘Hola’ for BBC coverage.

    His idea of his own importance is quite beyond the tiny borders of his mind.

  133. Capella says:

    The contrast between Rev Stu and David Torrance and his ilk is striking. Here we find several articles per week which are well researched, referenced and directly relevant to our political interests.

    The BTL commentariat are almost all bright, knowledgeable and good humoured.

    Can you imagine someone like Torrance producing anything like this type of forum from his bad-tempered and insulting opinion pieces? Me neither.

    Thanks Stu. Yer a media phenomenon. You won’t be getting a Press Award soon, but you have something more valuable and rare, the respect of the Scottish independence community.

  134. Thomas Valentine says:

    New name for David Torrance types online.
    If Wings etc are dubbed CYBERNATS,

    then there can be only one word CYBERTWAT.
    Troller Who Ignores Truth. Or whatever fits.

    David Torrance CYBERTWAT.

  135. ClanDonald says:

    “Performed a loud twexit.” LOLZ.

    I googled ‘hipster’ and clicked on images. The results reminded me of someone, can’t think who, any idea, folks?

  136. Grouse Beater says:

    Torrance sure knows how to keep the spotlight on his hirsute self.

    Can’t be bothered to check when I wrote this, but it’s prescient if nothing else. I happily donate it to the cause of sending packing shills and third rate hacks:

  137. CameronB Brodie says:

    On reflection,”angry Weetabix” and “disgruntled walnut” are more appropriate than “Ewok”, who were fighting against the evil empire, not sucking from it’s tit.

    Absurd and inconsequential fits the bill, IMHO.

  138. David says:

    He’ll be back to twitter when he realises nobody cares for his views without him trolling.

  139. revjimbob says:

    Beards were made for chins like that.

  140. Ian Murray says:

    Does anyone really think he has gone for good?
    We should be so lucky
    It is part of his raison d’etre as well as one of the few ways he has, to try and stay relevant if that is even possible
    We should have a poll to see how long it is before normal service is resumed, Days or weeks ?
    I say 10 days

  141. Ruby says:

    The first picture in this article is an excellent portrait of David Torrance.

    The Fair Isle sweater vest says it all.

    ‘But engagement is precisely what Torrance and his ilk fear, because engagement means debate and debate means that people might expose all the holes in your arguments that the Herald’s comment editors instantly delete in that nice safe controlled environment.’

    I would like to see more articles like this looking at the way other journalist use this provocative technique to insult & wind-up readers.

    More articles looking at moderation on forums like The Scotsman & The Herald and why posts are deleted. Do The Herald email you to tell you why your posts have been deleted?

    I’ve had some emails from The Scotsman telling me why they have deleted my posts. The one that made me laugh most was one that stated that my post had been deleted because of ‘veiled profanity’ I used the term pee pee. I was reminded of this reading the above tweet by Agent P. as it may well have been the same Agent P. that I referred to as Agent Pee Pee.

  142. Grouse Beater says:

    The Fair Isle sweater was a cunning ruse to have us think he supported Scotland, but all he’s did was depress sales!

  143. Brian McHugh says:

    O.T. Just got in to find a Wings badge set through the letter box. BIG Smiles. 🙂

  144. galamcennalath says:

    Scotland has a totally disfunctional media. An independent and varied media should hold politicians and public figures to account. It should be an important component in a democracy.

    The colonial media we are subjected to is something quite different.

    Take the Police numbers story it universally ran with. A non story giving the appearance of ‘holding to account’ when there was nothing to answer for.

    Or, Named Person, which may have shortcomings which need rational discussion but the real story is why it passed through Holyrood unopposed to be later attacked by opportunists.

    This is at the same time has there are HUGE stories around a potential forced Brexit, the treatment of our MPs, WM’s broken promises, neocon politics being forced on Scotland with no mandate, etc etc

    Where is a Scottish media just when we need one!?

  145. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Excellent article Stuart. Well done you old bean.

  146. Capella says:

    O/T Herald article about downgrading the director of BBC Scotland by excluding him from the top decision making team. He must now liaise with a “director for the nations and regions”.

    “The BBC has announced that its Scottish director, Ken McQuarrie, along with his counterparts in Wales and Northern Ireland, no longer have a place on its executive team with the posts replaced by a single “director of nations and regions”, who they will report to.”

    But it’s all very confusing. Who is to represent England? It doesn’t appear to be one of the nations or regions.

    Perhaps the BBC is now “ex regio”.

  147. Dair says:

    AgentP is ScottP from Political Betting who is almost certainly a CCHQ sockpuppet.

  148. call me dave says:

    @Brian McHugh

    Ditto: Badges arrived superb 🙂

    DT’s … a thing of the past don’t drink much at his column on the Herald.

  149. Truth says:

    Great article, and pretty much precisely why I ignore virtually all mainstream output.

    Ignore them, don’t pay their cover price, and don’t pay the BBC. Make them irrelevant even faster.

    It’s far better for your well-being too.

  150. Ruby says:

    If you want a pattern for a Fair Isle sweater vest you might have to go to an Antique Shop and try to track down some vintage knitting patterns. Back in the day when men wore Brylcreem and Fair Isle sweater vests were all the rage the pattern cost 8d.

    I’m not too sure if this 1940’s style vest top works in 2016. It might be OK if you got rid of the shirt, tie & pipe and just wore the sweater vest on its own and showed off your Fair Isle tattoos.

  151. Tam Jardine says:

    What I have always found very funny about David Torrance is his style of writing. He has a template that he uses again and again in his articles and it is this:

    Start off with a reference or quotation to some text that the reader almost certainly has not read. Then steer his pontification around to Scottish Independence or the SNP and begin the attack.

    He must think this devilishly clever- in his mind he is coming across as learned- on another level. It is almost as if he wins the argument before he reaches the end of paragraph one. You- after all, you thick pleb… how can you even argue with me? Have you even read the **insert impressive text here***? Did you know that?

    He is like some wank in the pub whose conversation you can’t help overhearing. Some folk can rise above it and ignore. Other folk cannot help listening to his bile and pish masquerading as intellectual discourse without calling him out.

    Well done for this article Stu. Forensic.

    Just to give those unfamiliar with his style a flavour, here are some random intros from the Herald:

    1. “THE preamble to the Constitution of the United States begins with a lofty statement using language borrowed from the 1707 Act of Union, the intention to create what it calls “a more perfect Union”.

    2. “When the facts change, I change my mind,” John Maynard Keynes is reputed to have remarked, “what do you do, Sir?”

    That the legendary economist most likely never uttered those words doesn’t really matter, for it captured the pragmatism required of seismic changes to the status quo, be they political, economic or constitutional.”

    3. “It was Machiavelli’s 16th-century treatise “The Prince” that established the political principle that the end justifies the means.

    “He who neglects what is done for what ought to be done,” wrote the Italian diplomat, “sooner effects his ruin than his preservation.” Elsewhere, there is this: “The prince must be a lion, but he must also know how to play the fox.”

    4. “The media,” mused Tom Stoppard in his play “Night and Day”. “It sounds like a convention of spiritualists.”

    It’s a good line, although today it’s an uncomfortable truth that for many, “the media” has about as much credibility as those who claim to commune with the dead.”

    5. “During Richard Nixon’s visit to Beijing in 1972, the Chinese premier Zhou Enlai was asked about the impact of the French Revolution, to which he was said to have replied that it was “too early to say”. The same might be said of Alex Salmond’s legacy, with its true impact only likely to become evident in decades to come, although certain aspects are already clear less than a year after his resignation as First Minister and SNP leader.”

    You are led to imagine David nobly thumbing through a worn copy of Il Principe or reading old papers on Nixon’s visit to Beijing over a fancy coffee in Geneva or Paris where he is no doubt attending a symposium… and maybe that is indeed David’s cultured life. It just comes across as so forced and pretentious like the ridiculous garb and facial hair- my guess is the real academics and intellectuals like Tom Devine read his stuff and roll their eyes if they even bother reading his stuff.

    Anyway- if I ever start a post referencing Herodotus or quoting from Dostoyevsky or dredging up some scene from a Fellini movie in a droll pompous preamble before I get to the point do feel free to call me every name under the sun as I would surely deserve it.

  152. Desimond says:

    So its true…a self loving self loather isnt just for Indyref1…its for the lifetime of being able to drag out their sorry little spot of spoiler stardom regardless of the depths needing plumbed.

    Give it 3 months and cue ‘plucky’ David with the announcement of either

    A: A BBC presenter gig
    B: An unapproved
    biography of Nicola Sturgeon or authorised biog on kindred spirit Ruth Davidson

  153. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Looks like he sits in his bedroom abusing himself while watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

  154. Tinto Chiel says:

    I was stuck in an out-patients’ waiting room for several hours while a friend had tests so this was a godsend, Rev, and the comments btl were a hoot too.

    The Tank Top Twally is beneath your attention, really, Stuart, but I suppose he had to be swatted because MSM gives him saturation, like Buffalo Girl. They are non-entities, but they’re all Yoondom has and deserve all they get when they start their lies, distortions and hypocrisy.

    Never mind, David will be up in the attic playing with his train set until his chicken soup is ready, sheltering from all you vile cyber seps.

    Youse are pure evil, btw.

  155. Valerie says:

    @Taranaich 4.19

    Great post, all the serious points about this whinging idiot covered in your usual polite, articulate style.

    If there is any justice, you, Taranaich, will be one of the rising stars in an independent Scottish media.

  156. Ruby says:

    That Times article entitled ‘Cybernat twits rob their party of the chance to evolve’ is unbelievable. How on earth can the Times print such garbage.

    Were there any comments on this article?

    As from the 1st September I won’t be able to watch any BBC TV progs which is no great loss. I will just have to watch STV instead. I wonder when the BBC find out that their propaganda is not getting through that they might decide to ditch their new idea re BBC iPlayer catch-up.

    What I was wondering about is if the BBC radio iplayer catch-up will still be available.

  157. Ruby says:

    Agent P is that not the name of ladies very expensive lingerie?

    An Agent P thong can cost anything from between £75 to £225

  158. Ken Clark says:

    Nice one Stu, made me chuckle.

    While attending the independence rally on Calton Hill, my partner drew my attention to a group heading towards the stage. She said, “He obviously thinks he’s important, who is he?” I turned and saw Torrance and his hangers on walk past. Torrance’s head birling like a demented lighthouse, desperate for attention. “Look it’s me!” “It’s me!” Hilarious.

    I replied, “He’s David Torrance, he’s on TV sometimes, but his importance only reaches as far as the boundaries of his skull.”

    My partner then said, “He looks like a prick.” I should point out that she doesn’t normally use such language.

    On he walked, with desperate smugness oozing from him, on a day where his small minded sneering was made impotent in the face of a fabulous gathering.

  159. Thepnr says:

    @Tam Jardine

    Yes, well spotted. he attempts to use the wise words of those long gone as a means big up his own dross. I’m sure he realises by now that it is surely failing. Hence the strop on Twitter.

    He himself describes as a valediction no less. Fecking balloon.

    @Tinto Chiel

    It’s easy to agree that there are more “serious” items that are worthy of an article or comment. However, the behavior and as importantly the exposure of our so called media is also important. Torrance has spat the dummy and ran away after been called out for making an arse of himself by stating that Scotland is not capable of making a one hour news program.

    Well how patronising is that? He deserves any criticism that comes his way including this article. I hope he is reading.

    We that support Independence have no real media so we have to do it for ourselves. People like David Torrence work exclusively for those that would oppress our voice not to make the voice of the public heard.

    That’s why the likes of WOS exist. Long may it thrive.

  160. Calum McKay says:

    I wonder what Torrance thinks of the shenanigans going on at labour?

    The bile since Corbyn took over has been absolutely staggering, both ways between the MPs and members.

    Rather than portraying politics with an open and analytical mind Torrance takes the easy and dishonest route highlighting his own prejudices and throwing objectivity omit of the window.

    Torrance is up there with Grant and McTernan, never let the truth get in the way when attacking the SNP.

  161. HaggisHunter says:

    DT represents the Union in Scotland.
    Judgemental, egocentric, corrupt and unable to connect to people who have not led pampered lifestyles

  162. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Ruby (8.20) –

    You should ask Paula Rose about that stuff.

    After all, she won the European Thong Contest in nineteen *inaudible mumble*…

  163. I Clark says:

    Twenty years ago Torrance and his ilk would have pontificated from lofty pedestals totally immune from the criticism of plebs. Now to some extent they have to mix with said plebs on social media. Inside they are screaming ‘Look at me. I’m important’. But the more the rest of us question their relevance – or laugh at their neediness – the more likely they are to resort to insult and abuse. Their frustration is almost palpable.

    But what can they do? Many of them are too arrogant to take responsibility for their own failings, so they look for others to blame. It’s the the fault of the SNP and the cybernats on social media, they cry. In a phrase, they engage in ‘the journalism of grievance’. It’s a sign they’re losing. Good.

  164. Fred says:

    “Fannybaws” might have been specifically invented just for Torrance!

  165. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Oor ain Doug Daniel was on The Twitter today, saying that the Weetabix mock-up of Torrance is one of the funniest things he’s ever seen.

    What makes it an instant classic is the fact that many would be able to identify that as Torrance, and – get this – it wouldn’t matter much if it was the bearded version or not!


  166. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Thepnr 8.45. Yes, I agree, which is why I said of Torrance and Tank Girl: “They are non-entities, but they’re all Yoondom has and deserve all they get when they start their lies, distortions and hypocrisy.”

    He reminds me of the speccy wee clype at school the bad boys couldn’t even be bothered taking round behind the bike sheds for a summary interview.

  167. Grouse Beater says:

    How long does it take Torrance, hacks and politicians to understand it has very little to do with the SNP – it has everything to do with a better educated electorate resolved NOT to take the abuse about ‘crap’ Scotland … ANY … BLOODY … MORE?

  168. philip maughan says:

    Excellent Rev, though I rather hope he keeps writing his driven in the newspapers, just to keep us alert about the unionist mindset. I’m currently reading ‘Hidden Histories’ which includes a devastating chapter on how the press told outright lies about German military preparations pre-WW1 to forment anti German sentiment and support for war. And of course it worked. So the press have well over 100 years of practice at information ‘management’

  169. CameronB Brodie says: have got a feckin’ nerve, though I think it more likely they’ve been spun a line about how totalitarian the SNP are.

    The SNP do not speak for the majority in Scotland. We want the BBC to remain a British broadcasting company. We want to continue…. – Georgina Sparrow

    Don’t be suckers, suckers.

    @ Georgina Sparrow
    Care to tell us who mandated you to speak on the behalf of Scotland?

  170. Thepnr says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    He reminds me of everything I loathe about UKOK jouralism and media.

  171. findlay farquaharson says:

    and this ladies and gentleman, is why i donate to this site

  172. Tinto Chiel says:

    @ Thepnr 9.27: yep, in spades.

  173. DerekM says:

    @ CameronB Brodie

    And somebody should tell Georgina Sparrow that this was her own yoon westminster that came up with this idea not the SNP and that we vile cybernats dont really give a monkeys either way as it will just be like all the rest of the bollocks except 30 mins longer.

    Yoons what are they like cant even understand that its their own side trying to extend the SNP bad news,what a shower of eejits.

  174. galamcennalath says:

    I read somewhere recently that Scotland has the most politically aware electorate in Europe. Perhaps.

    This current stushie has come about because we have simultaneously a politically inadequate, unsophisticated, and out of tune media! Most of the populace are in one place while the media occupy an entirely different space.

  175. Taranaich says:

    “His Salmond biography, written in Sep 2010, ends with the prediction that Salmond will step down as SNP leader in a year’s time after he has lost the 2011 election.”

    I have the second edition (Christmas present from a well-meaning relative who knows I’m a nat but not aware of Mr Torrance’s, ahem, reputation) published after the Holyrood election with a new post-election postscript. Curiously, that prediction is nowhere to be seen, with no reference to the omission in any of the endnotes (as far as I can find, at least).

    There are some absolute belters still there, though. Lots of implications that indyref would be kicked into the long grass, etc. Particularly loved this bit from the new postscript:

    “Salmond had always argued that once the SNP demonstrated competence in government, support could only increase. That strategy did not work. while the 2011 Scottish Election Study (SES) revealed that the SNP had won the election primarily becausee it was perceived as ‘competent’, that perception had not translated into increased support for ‘independence’. It depended, as ever, how the question was asked, but the SES found support for ‘independence’ at just 24%, with the status quo and greater powers tied on 38%. (It should be noted that three polls conducted after the election put support for independence at 37, 39 and 35 per cent respectively, demonstrating an apparent upward trend.)!

    Got that? Salmond argued that support for independence “could only increase” if the SNP demonstrated competence in government. Torrance then goes on to explain how “that strategy didn’t work” while including evidence of… an increase of support in independence. In the space of a single paragraph.

    The man is a complete and utter fool.

  176. Pin says:

    Best one in a while

  177. Taranaich says:

    @Valerie: If there is any justice, you, Taranaich, will be one of the rising stars in an independent Scottish media.

    Living in an independent Scotland knowing I did my bit alongside millions of others is stardom enough for me, Valerie. 🙂

  178. shiregirl says:

    Oh David.

    Karma is a bitch, eh?


  179. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Apropos of nothing in particular…

    The British State has always had ‘agents’ who are at, or at least near, the epitome of whatever trade they ply.

    Doesn’t matter if they’re curators, carpenters, clergy or ‘commoners’ – they have to be good at what they’re ‘supposed’ to be. Otherwise? Nae credibilty…

    Graham Greene was a writer. He was also (I’m assuming this is now accepted) a British ‘spook’, of similar ranking with Philby. He had his first novel published when he was 21 yrs old, and travelled around the globe in a pattern which was remarkably coincident with matters of major concern to ‘Britain’ until he died, sixty-five years later.

    The ‘Empire’, even as the sun was setting, still had quality material to draw upon.

    This embarrassing stump of a ‘State’ spends most of its time fending scandals away from the gates of Buck House. Little wonder it can’t command sufficient mandarins to ensure proper discipline in ‘The North’.

    Ach well…just canny get the staff these days, eh?

  180. Robert Peffers says:

    @ronnie anderson says: 4 August, 2016 at 4:21 pm:

    “Torrance should fold up his tent same as he folds up his wee foldy bike an fek off.”

    ‘know, Ronnie, I’ve been wondering what the title of this article reminded me of but I just couldn’t remember what it was. Then, just now, it struck me, “Jekyll & Hyde”.

    Did not Dr Jekyll take, “The formula”, and it turned him into Mr Hyde? Mind you in this case when D. Torrance took, “The Formula”, the daft bugger ran awa aff o Twitter tae gan an hide.

  181. scotspine says:

    Aye, there’s a want abbot thon lad.

  182. louis.b.argyll says:

    So, not only is he a PROVEN fool..
    but any ‘producer/editor’ who invites his opinion, is also an APPARENT fool, journalistically speaking.

  183. Free Scotland says:

    Caption for top photo: “Men of renown never wear brown.”

  184. Habib Steele says:

    Cardiff University School of Journalism must be hanging its head in shame at being included in Torrance’s bio. It does not speak well for the School’s teaching on non-bias, nor on “how to make friends and influence people”. Btw, the book by the latter title is a dreadful treatise on how to manipulate people.

  185. heedtracker says:

    If Disgruntled Walnut’s freelance, it would be interesting to see what toryboy hacks get paid per SNP bad thing. UK Foreign Sec BoJo gets a quarter of a million quid a year for his planet toryboy Torygraph guff so its probably quite good money.

    There’s a good youtube thing with BoJO’s first US John Kerry press conference and the US hack goes through a list of insults that Bojo’s used to insult people around the world. A lot is spectacularly racist, upper class twit English racist. Only the torygraph freak show would print stuff like Africans are “flag waving picanninies” with “water melon smiles.”

  186. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Graham Greene was a writer and a spook. Too much narrative in “non fictional” novels for it not to be the case.

    Some of these novelists of non fiction were of course also spooks themselves back in the day.

    No idea if any of our enlightened journalists today could possibly be spooks but they are in the main spooky bastards.

  187. Gary45% says:

    I think cereal boys comeback will be a book on the three uses of a carpet pattern tank top.
    No1 Look like a twat.
    No2 Look like a daft twat.
    No3 Thinking you look trendy wearing a carpet, but you just look like a twat.

  188. James Barr Gardner says:

    BBC lying yet again “Scotland’s first oil rush” Grangemouth Refinery built in its early years did do shale oil but it was minimal compared with the complex built in the late fifties expressly to process Persian (Iranian) crude extracted by Shell Oil.

    According to the BBC it was built by Scots what they don’t tell you it was a carbon copy of an American one built near Houston USA, my Uncle a marine engineer with a Chief Engineers ticket, time served draughtsman Yarrows, veteran of Russian Convoys was based in Houston to be envolved in the American construction which he was to replicate later on in Grangemouth. BBC yet again rewriting history FLB.

    Meantime BBC giving time to some arse who has written a book about Ted Heath PM and how he was a nice chap but a bit shy. Where the F do the BBC get away with this crap, and the high head yins did not know about Jimmy Saville, whit about about Heath’s dark past nae mention of that, but what do expect from the BBC truth don’t make me laugh.

    Scotland will be free, Westminster can swim in it’s pool of sewage!

  189. Free Scotland says:

    In the second photo, he looks like a crazed, sadistic dentist.

  190. Quinie frae Angus says:

    What a stunningly comprehensive post – absolutely brilliant. What a laugh I have had reading the comments. Thanks, one and all. As ThePNR says: “Fecking balloon”.

    This site is worth every penny.

    Can anyone enlighten me though as I think I may have missed the origins of the Weetabix thing. Love the pic – it’s so silly it’s hilarious – but was this just some random joke that a vile Cybernat came up with? Or was there a DT Cybertwat orgin for this?

  191. CameronB Brodie says:

    The strategy game “Civilisation”, is a goldmine for those looking for wise words of those long gone. That’s all I’m saying. 😉

  192. crazycat says:

    @ Desimond

    Gary45%’s post reminded me that I meant to reply to yours at 7.57.

    Has DT not already written an unauthorized biography of Nicola Sturgeon?

  193. heedtracker says:

    Its highly unlikely, or rather, the last thing on planet UKOK toryboy this particular Disgruntled Walnut toryboy is interested in, is twats:D

    No1 Look like a twat.
    No2 Look like a daft twat.
    No3 Thinking you look trendy wearing a carpet, but you just look like a twat.

  194. Free Scotland says:

    If you zoom in on the photo which shows him wearing the blue t-shirt, you can see his favourite brown fair-isle tank-top lying in a heap on top of the drawer unit.

    If that’s his bedroom, he ought to be ashamed of himself.

  195. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 4 August, 2016 at 5:19 pm

    Yeah!Heedtracker, I saw that and had a good old belly laugh at one of the letters on the petition page that claimed, “The SNP doesn’t speak for Scotland”.

    Matter of stone cold fact the SNP most certainly Does officially, and democratically, speak for Scotland.

    What with being the properly and democratically elected Scottish Government and with a vast majority of the Scottish MPs at Westminster, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the SNP does indeed speak on behalf of the majority of the people of Scotland.

  196. Free Scotland says:

    Breaking news: David Torrance shaves off his beard, ditches his glasses and poses for a photo wearing a saltire badge.

  197. Thepnr says:

    @Quinie frae Angus

    “Eat yer cereal” LOL

  198. heedtracker says:

    What with being the properly and democratically elected Scottish Government and with a vast majority of the Scottish MPs at Westminster, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the SNP does indeed speak on behalf of the majority of the people of Scotland.

    All true Robert, except there’s an extraordinary tory BBC led blackout on everything and anything SNP, apart from bad. For UKOK tory BBC led media, their UK is no longer a three party politic. Its red and blue tory and that’s it.

    No idea whatsoever how to counter the BBC’s SNP ongoing blackout because this is the UK really flexing its propaganda muscles, UK wide. Ofcourse BBC Scotland’s main purpose is to get the SNP out but its a long slog.

    They’re probably aiming to cut SNP Westminster by a third 2020 and keep hammering away at Holyrood SNP but its Westminster that getting the SNP out is the most blatant BBC anti Scots democracy. If they weren’t licence funded, they’d lose half their Scots income instantly.

  199. Jas says:

    Brilliant post Rev. Witty, intelligent, and devastating all in one go.

  200. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Free Scotland (10.54) –

    ‘If that’s his bedroom, he ought to be ashamed of himself.’

    Kin right…

    And if it’s someone else’s bedroom? They need to re-assess – rather urgently – their current habitation situation, eh?

    We all know rented accommodation in The Mother Of All Cities is tight and expensive, but, hey, what a thought:


  201. Proud Cybernat says:

    Poor Davy. Off Twatter for nearly 24 hours now. The DTs must be real bad right about now. His brain will be numb with all the schemes it’s gone through and cast aside to get him back online with his integrity (sniggers) still intact.

    Don’t worry Davy boy – you’ll figure something out to weasel your way back to the adoring fans in your mind. We have every faith in you.

    Oh, and do stop nicking Granville’s clothes off the clothes-line.

  202. Phronesis says:

    Social capital is social cohesion,shared access to resources, embodied cultural capital, bridging capital which facilitates the flow of ideas and achieves mutual understanding – the YES movement has this in spades, frankly.

    The aspiration for Scotland’s independence transcends the usual cultural and social divides that the WM political psyche fixates on and is articulated in the MSM using language that reinforces imbalanced power relations (because that’s what you have to do if you only rate high- status individuals).

    As Chomsky (who does know something about the role of dominant and subjugated language in constructing social injustice in the political sphere) argues,

    ‘the best way to defend civil liberties is to collectively build a movement for social change that has broad- based appeal, that encourages free and open discussion, and offers a wide range of possibilities for social agency…The systems of private tyranny –totalitarian in character-are also not there by natural law, but by human decisions. They can be democratised and dismantled. What concentrated privilege can’t live with is sustained pressure that keeps building , organisations that keep doing things, people that keep learning lessons from the last time and doing better the next time…Real research and inquiry is always a collective activity. Such efforts can make a large contribution to changing consciousness, increasing insight and understanding, and leading to constructive action’ (1995,The Harvard Educational Review 65(2)

    Exactly-the vacuous supporters of Scotland’s autonomy (that other rather vacuous entity) using deeply positive arguments and sentiments to construct the alternative coherent case for Scotland’s independence. Utterly vacuous, frankly.

  203. Craig P says:

    I will hand it to David Torrance. That is a whole Wings article devoted to him.

    That’s his profile raised more than a Twitter spat or an article in the Scotsman!

    (He may be on BBC too of course – I wouldn’t know any more.)

  204. Inverclyder says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 11:19


    Fixed that for you.

  205. Thepnr says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    “The DTs must be real bad right about now.”

    Yes, you would think so, but propably on his third bottle of sherry and reading Wings right now muttering to himself..

    “It’ll all be alright tomorrow”

  206. Almannysbunnet says:

    Torrance has built a nice little career portraying himself as the defender of the union. Playing “the victim” and making out he is under attack from the nats makes it look like he has something important to say and he has become the go to guy for the BBC. The problem is his career is on thin ice if he becomes the subject of ridicule. This is exactly what happened in this case. He didn’t quit twitter because of abuse he quit because people were openly laughing and making fun of him. He saw the danger and had to shut it down. He will be back when he thinks people have forgotten, but like Johann Lamont’s “genetically programmed” comment, Torrance will be forever remembered as the fanny who thought having a news programme made and produced in Scotland was too difficult for the ridiculous reason that camera’s were too complicated for Scots to operate.

  207. Thepnr says:


    Thanks for Chomsky quote.

    Excellent diagnosis, frankly 🙂

  208. David Williams says:

    Thanks for the exposé, Stuart. Excellent article.

  209. Robert Peffers says:

    @Almannysbunnet says: 4 August, 2016 at 11:42 pm
    ” … Torrance will be forever remembered as the fanny who thought having a news programme made and produced in Scotland was too difficult for the ridiculous reason that camera’s were too complicated for Scots to operate.”

    The really hilarious bit is that the very first successful TV camera, television transmitter and television receiver was invented built and operated by a Scot. Not only that but the first successfully operated public TV broadcast used that Scotsman’s system. It is not generally known but John Logie Baird also made the first colour TV broadcast.

    What is more Robert Watson-Watt, a relative of James Watt, led a team of unproven and unknown British scientists who invent the first practical Radar system.

    Another thing not generally known is that this was actually also the invention of the Microwave oven.

    As a young apprentice in Rosyth Dockyard in the 1950s we used to make our tea and heat our pies by opening up the little section of the Radar waveguide that was at the bottom of the Radar Ariel meant for maintenance, (it was roughly a 4″ long square pipe section).

    Then we would operate the radar with the pie or whatever in the gap to heat it up. If we had realised the implications then we could have made our fortunes.

  210. Rob James says:

    Back in the seventies, I accompanied a fashion orientated friend on a day trip to Edinburgh, where we went in search of a jumper similar to the hand made Argyll jumpers which were all the rage at the time. (The real ones could be acquired from a place in St.Enoch Sq. in Glasgow, but they were out of our price change).

    We entered a somewhat old fashioned premises up the bridges where the shop assistant attempted to palm us off with everything from polo neck sweaters to cardigans. His final offering was a v-neck tank top which had us in convulsions on the shop floor. On our exit from said premises, my friend remarked, ” No doubt he’ll sell it to some gullible arsehole.”

  211. Smallaxe says:

    @ To all defaming Mr Torrance’s name.

    He is not a twat He’s a Twunt. 🙂

  212. wee folding bike says:

    Ohhhhh jeeeezz louise. He’s got LPs on the floor.

    No, they do not sound warm. They sound like rice krispies with all their snap, crackle and pops. Don’t even mention the rumble and the pre-echo… I blinking flip hated the pre-echo…

  213. Thepnr says:


    No one on Wings is defaming anyone, just saying it like it is and I still hope he’s reading. Maybe make him think twice before spouting off again with his pish in the papers or on the telly?

    Doubt it though because he’s a UKOK Sycophant not a twat or twunt. He depends on the existence of the UK for his living and “fame” and writes and speaks accordingly. Sycophant.

  214. call me dave says:

    Party accounts reveal new financial might of SNP


    Meanwhile in England & Wales: They’re looking for a 4th chair.

    Child sex abuse inquiry: Judge Lowell Goddard quits

    In North Britain it is a national scandal to lose just one!
    Funny old world init! 🙁

  215. Dr Jim says:

    Can you get “Nicola Sturgeon speaks for Scotland” on a badge

    Now that’s got to wind them up

  216. Smallaxe says:


    Agreed, in a different age Torrance would not be facing just
    Insults,his head would be in a basket looking up at his ruined
    tank top.:-)

    Goodnight All.

  217. Still Positive. says:

    In the days when I still read ‘The Herald’ I could barely get to the second column of Dt’s post.

    As a retired English teacher I couldn’t make sense of his column. He is probably of the level of bottom Standard Grade
    regards ‘English’ passes.

  218. crazycat says:

    @ Gerry

    It was being discussed on another site I was looking at this evening – too late at night for me to assess it properly, but there were various suggestions about enforcement, effect on credit rating of any default, etc.

    and following comments – mixed in with other topics and just lay people’s opinions.

    (The person who originally mentioned it sometimes posts on here, though I’ve not seen him do so recently with that username.)

  219. crazycat says:

    @ Gery

    What I meant by that last sentence (it’s far too late at night!) is that he might be posting with a different name and I wouldn’t know – if that wasn’t clear.

    I see we now have a spam filter.

  220. crazycat says:

    @ Gerry

    Sorry – didn’t mean to deprive you of an r.
    Good night!

  221. I vow from now on not to give this man the cyanide of public ridicule. He’s doing what his handlers expect him to do after all; and making a tidy sum out of it too.
    The basis of every piece which he scribbles, every broadcast in which he takes part, is that we who support independence are rabid nationalists, that because we were born here, we happen to think that Scotland, in his view an English dependency, a financial basket case, populated by an unsettling number of vacuous cultist,is the greatest nation on earth, and that evry other nation is vying for second place.
    I’d argue that he believes that this is the case with regard to his precious Union, GB, the UK, or the British Empire as such.
    The Pro Independence argument is obscured in this man’s diurnal drivel.
    This is the last time I give this man the cyanide of public ridicule. May I venture that the posters above might consider ignoring this buffoon in future.

  222. ElaineS says:

    Unbelievable that unionist press and that vile torylite Hothersall goes on about abuse from “Cybernats” yet no matter how often this link of what SNP politicians, people and country were attacked in the vilest of tweets, especially the racist ones in the run up to IndyRef 2014. NOT one media highlighted it. Maybe its time The National or Sunday Herald did,there is thousands of the tweets, I kept sending them to Daily Record acc when they kept naming and shaming Yes voters if they swore at a celeb a few years back, they blocked me choosing not to be a balanced media. If you name and shame one side, you name and shame the other side or so it should be I wish someone would set up a bot again because I fear the abuse against us is far greater now thanks to Torrance, Brian Spanner and many others .

  223. Thomas Valentine says:

    Maybe Stu could do a fools gallery.
    All the unemployable failed political and journalistic nobodies, that used the 2014 referendum to try and spark life back into dead careers.

    There are those who should be excluded from this list, such as the ones who betrayed everything they “claimed” to believe. Like the honest accountant who after 30 years decides to steal all his clients money and run away with Beryl the receptionist. The ones who got rewarded.

    I’m talking about McTernan and Murphy and Torrance.

    Torrance is in his what forties and he’s trying to dress like a hipster. It’s not difficult to find images of his as the typecast little Tory errand boy running around in a knockoff Saville type suit. Can’t afford the real one. Then he’s tries to dress the part of the cool young guy. Why? hipster specs to cover the wrinkles around the eyes. Beard to hide an aging face and because “all the young dudes” are on the up swing in the face hair generational cycle. Owen Jones knows he too old to sport a beard and he’s 30. All that along with his perpetual appearance of holding in a serious fart. Or maybe he’s got a weak sphincter he has to clench. Is the look meant convince us he’s got gravitas and authoritas. Is he pretending to be a young political player with his finger on the pulse “down wit da yoofs”. He’s in his bloody forties his boat never came in and now he’s trying to make those in authority think he’s still useful.

    Well it seemed to work for Mone, a little for McTernan and just perhaps finally for Davy. Has his boat come back for him?

  224. Naina Tal says:

    Why is it that every time I look at the fotie of Torrance in his sleeveless pullover the lyrics of “Hermless” by Michael Marra burl roon ma heid?

  225. frogesque says:


    BBC Breakfast few mins ago. Absolutely dire interview re End Festival with acrobats performing behind. Of course we have to have the obligatory English accents.

    Anyone thinking of visiting Scotland’s capital for the World’s largest arts festival would be totally nonplussed.

    Ffs BBC, get a fucking grip!

  226. frogesque says:

    Edinburgh festival!

  227. frogesque says:

    More O/t.

    RBS still in deep shit. £2.04B loss in first half of year. Doesn’t matter though, taxpayer and savers will carry the can.

  228. Breeks says:

    I don’t understand why Torrance gets the platform he does. I don’t get the 1960’s retro looks complete with NHS nerd specs, (that is the look he’s going for isn’t it?), but most of all how an alleged journalist can ostensibly carry out so much research yet remain so blinkered and ill informed, and retain such poor judgement.

    Then of course, you have to remember he hails from the circus hall of mirrors in camp Unionism, where it isn’t your talent that counts so much as your capacity to distort. Journalists having precious little talent for journalism Is no handicap to a blossoming career in the anti-Scottish media.

    Show me an articulate Unionist, and have him explain the positive case for the Union. My guess is you no longer have an articulate Unionist.

    You can look at wars and unrest in the world, like the Gulf, Kosovo, and the Balklans etc, and in general, with a reasonable degree of success, kinda work out the strengths and weaknesses of the combatants, get the gist of their grievances and get a handle on their beliefs. They don’t have to be very articulate making their case, because in general you can work it out for yourself. If there are gaps, you can make allowances for grey areas you don’t know or fully understand, but it doesn’t always distort your assumptions in the round.

    I can’t do that with Unionism. It seems the only function of Unionism is to defeat Scottish Independence, but let me stress the word “only”. It’s a one trick pony. Unionism has no alternative option to promote, no better state or option to build, no idealic United utopia. There is no vision beyond what “is”. Beyond defeating Scottish Independence, there is no deeper philosophy or greater ideology underpinning their beliefs.

    Unionism is the arbitrary rejection of freedom, but the likes of Torrance are merely minions for the real arbiters. They are cheap and expendable, and only exist so the real power brokers can avoid getting their hands dirty subverting Scotland’s best interests.

  229. Smallaxe says:

    @ Naina Tal,

    Just listened to Michael Marra,noo you’ve got me at it as well


  230. Finlay says:

    Any so-called journalist worth their salt would never stick large photos of themselves as the leading images of articles they are irrelevant to…

    Prefixing every headline with your own name is pathetic, like a small child crying: “Mummy! Mummy! Mummy!” with no purpose other than to attract attention for the sake of attention.

    “There’s no limit to what a man can do, or where he can go, if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit.”

    In my anonymous opinion, society’s obsession with ‘branding’ stifles our progress as a species.

    Look at Donald Trump ignoring intelligent conversation, plastering his name over everything he touches and referring to himself in the 3rd person all the time while Hillary Clinton awkwardly fannies about with balloons to distract from her corruption. I read about Samantha Cameron’s aide Isabel Spearman being nominated on the honours list as what is essentially a tax-funded ‘brand manager’ or ‘image stylist’ (or so I gather). Remember the Tory “powerstance” bullshit or Gordon Brown being taught to smile more? I don’t want to read an article in a newspaper or online equivalent about Nicola Sturgeon’s haircut or Jeremy Corbyn’s beard… Keep that shite for some wretched glam mag.

    Your ideas should be at the forefront of discussion and not your appearance, image, name or brand. I don’t care who you are if you have no ideas to discuss. And even if you do have interesting things to talk about, why should anyone care who you are? Let your ideas gather recognition and not your face or your name, and let journalism reflect that.

    When we go to vote in elections it seems to me like most people just choose which brand they like the best, Coke or Pepsi essentially. In theory, when we vote we are choosing between competing ideas of society and civilisation and so the choice in the vote should reflect that because right now, in practice, we are choosing between brands, faces and names. That is an embarrassment to humanity and intelligent life and the media are probably to blame.

  231. Iain says:

    O/t I don’t suppose the yoons will have thought of what happens when brexit is announced and the pound takes a huge plummet. Don’t see England being able to afford trident (mostly American) Hinckley point power station( the most expensive thing on earth) and hs2. Still better together!

  232. mealer says:

    Naina Tal 6.32
    Harmless.A cracking song by the genius Michael Marra.Harmless isn’t a word you could use to describe his niece,Labour MSP and tory Jenny Marra,who thinks we should spend billions on nuclear bombs to melt babies.She also thinks Scotland is better governed from London by right wing Tories than by decent folk from here.Weird.Im always hoping she’ll come to her senses and see what’s so obvious to pretty much everyone else of her generation in Dundee.

  233. frogesque says:

    @ Findlay 7.55

    We have been conditioned to vacuous soundbites and so called debates reduced to shouting matches that wouldn’t be out of place on a Jeremy Kyle show. Corbyn vs. Smith being just the latest episode.

    This, while behind the big doors the real decisions and carveups are done like gangsters deciding turf shares.

    I am heart sick of it. We need out.

  234. Juan P says:

    O/t Anyone else see the English conedian’s song on BBC breakfast this morning.

    Wee ditty about England being a shambles snd all the English comedians escaping to Scotland as it’s the last oasis of calm. Guessing it won’t be repeated throughout the day.

  235. Iain says:

    It is a frightening prospect for the UK to finance trident costing 30% more because of post brexit devaluation of the pound, never mind trying to finance Hinckley point power station the most expensive thing ever built by man with an economy set to shrink and potentially having no tariff free access to the world’s largest single market. Still, we are much better off being better together?

  236. orri says:

    Not sure about Torrance himself but when the Tories talk about the dangers of “Ulsterisation” they aren’t using it to mean the kind of polarisation of opinion and social divide you’d think. All they are concerned about is the forming of independent parties in Scotland would place a cap on their own personal ambition. So The Mooth would never have a shot at being PM, no matter how fanciful that notion might be.

  237. Famous15 says:

    This damned Edinburgh Festival and its bloody creativity is doing my head in. I had a dream last night of a play wot I wrote. The plot was a remake of the Graduate with.

    STARRING. David Torrance and Lady Moan. Not to be missed. Laugh yourself to sleep!

  238. Albert Herring says:

    I have heard from a reliable inside source that when BBC Scotland gets to “make” a TV programme for the network, the appropriate technical staff are brought in from Londinum.

    The really do think Scots cannae work cameras.

  239. One_Scot says:

    Just got up, is Dave back yet.

  240. galamcennalath says:

    @Breeks at 7:52am

    Good analysis of Unionism as a ‘one trick pony’ to defeat independence.

    I think it also retains some appeal through nostalgia to some mythical past, real or imagined. However, no one can coherently explain what this really is either.

    Unionist manifests as nothing more than negativity focused on Indy and anything associated with it. “Don’t like Alec Salmond” or “Nicola’ or “SNP” or “Scotland”. But what do they like or want? They never say.

  241. louis.b.argyll says:

    Is, saying that (insert labour politician here) approves of a weapon that melts babies more vile than the existence of those weapons? Huh?

    Do the labour party still know what immoral means?

    Being vile is actually tempered by greater concern for a greater good.

    I like griping.

  242. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Breeks

    Spot on about Unionism being a one-trick pony to thwart Scottish independence. And just like the cultist Loyalists, they define themselves by what they hate and not by what they love. More negative people you are never likely to meet.

    It is surely a form of self-loathing and self-harming.

  243. One_Scot says:

    Apparently Yoons are making up fake polls now to further their cause, and here’s me thinking that Yoons were essentially a truthful decent honest bunch. Well I never.

    I’m sure they won’t try any of this sort of nonsense during IndyRef2.

  244. Fred says:

    McWhirter thinks it’s time for the SNP to ditch the Queen. Possibly he should mind his own K’in business & leave these matters to the SNP. One thing at a time, we have a referendum to win first, anything else is a distraction, which is probably his aim.

  245. Dr Jim says:

    How come having more armed police on our streets could lead to an “Escalation” of criminals carrying guns

    But WMDs in our back garden is a deterrent

    Easily explained by the overwhelming logic of Willie “Spock” Rennie

    “These two things are entirely separate issues” Yoon logic from our very own resident Vulcan


  246. ronnie anderson says:

    @ louis b argyle ( I like griping ) you oan that baby watter, get the grown up gripe watter Vino lol.

  247. Andrew McLean says:

    Are labour for a unelected house of lords or against? Tom Watson, speaking on Today on Radio 4 ( For listeners in the English region only), is supposed to be left wing socialist, no don’t laugh, has said “Shami Chakrabarti, is precisely the sort of person you do need in the house of lords, making our laws, we need laws making in the chamber by people who have given served their country with exemplary distinction”

    So left wing labour still very much a supporter and advocate for the house of old feckers, and bra models. Now Shami, as impressive as she is is now part of the problem, another back hander for the rest of her life “for services rendered”.
    No sorry Shami, it won’t wash, you are now an unelected dictator, vanilla flavoured perhaps, but still a unelected place man in a constitutional embarrassment and a democratic absurdity.
    Even in its radical left, England is a world apart from my Nation. Good!

  248. Great piece that. Wee Davie has become that thing which no political journalist or commentator can ever become. A bore.

    As for the nonsense about the Queen, if any SNP activists fall for what is involved in starting to debate this issue this side of independence they need their heads examined.

  249. heedtracker says:

    McWhirter thinks it’s time for the SNP to ditch the Queen.

    Disgruntled Walnut says “Scottish nationalists and Brexiteers” covers perhaps 75% of Scotland (almost 50% of people vote SNP and 38% voted Leave, and the crossover is quite limited),

    are utterly vacuous and

    Iain Macwhirter ?@iainmacwhirter 12h12 hours ago
    RE David Torrance, anti-semitism, misogyny etc.. Why can’t people just accept that Twitter attracts nutters and sociopaths. Why listen?

    Iain Macwhirter ?@iainmacwhirter 12h12 hours ago
    RE Twitteratti list: I forgot to add deluded conspiracy theorists, narcissistic attention seekers, paranoid partisans and crashing bores.

    Apart from toryboys, is there anyone they actually like?

  250. Smallaxe says:

    @ Nana,

    My Dear Nana, I have just listened to the link that you posted
    at 7:54am about the police whistleblower,as you said it’s very
    scary and harrowing.

    I have no answers to this vile problem (who has)? but when I
    see the amount of money being spent on so called Vanity projects I sure you will agree that this money should and could be spent better on Humanity projects.Peace,Love and my
    Deepest thanks for your links.

  251. Smallaxe says:

    @ Nana,

    My Dear Nana, I have just listened to the link that you posted
    at 7:54am about the police whistleblower,as you said it’s very
    scary and harrowing.

    I have no answers to this vile problem (who has)? but when I
    see the amount of money being spent on so called Vanity projects I’m sure you will agree that this money should and could be spent better on Humanity projects.Peace,Love and my
    Deepest thanks for your links.

  252. Thepnr says:

    There is only one issue that Independence supporters need focus on and that is Independence.

    Anything else is a deliberate distraction and must be ignored.

  253. louis.b.argyll says:

    Aye Ronnie, never mind the fluids..
    Maybe it’s the tablets, will stick to fudge from now on..

  254. Andrew McLean says:

    Ok lets kill of this Queen thing, Personally its not even an argument for another day, if I had to vote it would to keep her, and every SNP supporter I know would do the same, the only person that has ever mentioned this to me was an ardent Labour supporter, who is quite “French” on the subject.

    Now whither intentionally through malice or un-intentionally through stupidity, this is as divisive a subject as abortion, and will only spook the people we try and convert to YES, why wouldn’t someone see that. the fact that their will never be a referendum on this subject EVER in Scotland should put an end to this ridiculous notion!

  255. louis.b.argyll says:

    O.T. ish, been away etc, but..

    Whatever happened to the Scottish farmers C.A.P. payments deadline and the £29 000 000 EU fine that was imminent, anyone?

  256. heedtracker says:

    Tom Watson criticises Jeremy Corbyn for Shami Chakrabarti’s peerage nomination.

    I genuinely thought JC was an actual leftie progressive. Westminster’s a mad house. And cue their usual “you can only change from the inside” waffle, “pass the brandy Baron Flipper of Ranaloushski” “What do you mean Baron Foulkes is hogging it”

  257. Connor McEwen says:

    Fred 10.16 and Dr.Jim 10.18.It is just a LOGICAL distraction.
    nuff said ta ta.

  258. Andrew McLean says:

    heedtracker says: 10:45 am
    “Tom Watson criticises Jeremy Corbyn for Shami Chakrabarti’s peerage nomination.”

    Yes but he did so only on the grounds he wasn’t told, and that he disagrees with resignation lists anyway.

    Context Heedy Context!

  259. Smallaxe says:

    @ Fred,

    Some great posts on here for this time in the morning, I am with you re.distractions as you say, Independence first and foremost,without it our hands remain tied and the Unicorn still shackled to W/minster.Peace Always.

  260. Dr Jim says:

    McWhirter’s just trying to start trouble by throwing out a lump of shit hoping it hits a fan somewhere
    “Journalist” attempt at stirring up trouble where there’s none, to give themselves something to scribble about

    There’s more important stuff than Queenie going on, well, to sensible folk

  261. heedtracker says:

    Context Heedy Context!

    Indeed, but it was just the latest on this News about feed. It also just goes to show, you can never too much of a teamGB hypocrite down south.

  262. heedtracker says:

    Arise Baroness Chakrabarti

    Policy focus: Jeremy Corbyn has called for a thorough and comprehensive review of the House of Lords, saying: “In the interim under our proposals, the Labour party will certainly not nominate new peers for the Lords which risks undermining its legitimacy.”

  263. Jim Thomson says:

    O/T … but very important

    Malcolm Sargent House in Prestwick is being sold by the charity that owns it. It provides holiday breaks for children with cancer.

    Dr Philippa Whitford MP is supporting a fundraiser to buy it and continue its good work.

    Please consider a few quid as a donation. Thanks

  264. Dan Huil says:

    McWhirter will write whatever he has to in order to keep his job.

  265. Lochside says:

    @Andrew MClean…re. the Queen. I’d like to know what branch of the SNP you’re in…like to keep the Queen?.What?In the manner to which she has become accustomed? The Queen is at the apex of the Colonial outfit that rules us…whether she is a glove puppet for the City of London etc. is irrelevant (although she does purr, apparently ,on the subject of subgjugation of her Scottish subjects).

    When we finally flush away the UK/Brit State from the bath tub of our lives,the royalty and the rest of the accumulated scum that cling to them may leave unsightly residue around the edges. At that point surely a good scouring will be required to cleanse the last vestiges of heir(s) apparent and the like?

  266. Ruby says:

    David Torrance decided in 2011 to abandon the term ‘cybernat’ because he agreed with Kevin Donnelly.

    Kevin Donnelly says:
    “Cybernat” is in my view, a facile description and quite clearly used in a negative sense to smear all those who do not support the unionist parties. It is a propaganda tool which perhaps you might consider abandoning in future blogs?

    ‘David Torrance says:
    January 14, 2011 at 3:26 pm
    You make several reasonable points. You’ll be glad to hear that I decided to abandon the term after writing this piece!’

  267. galamcennalath says:

    The point about Indy is we actually get the opportunity to make important decisions about our country for a change. Everything follows on from that, and very little is possible prior to that.

    Why even consider the questions we might be asking ourselves, never mind the answers, before we are in a position make such decisions?

    I believe in the short Indy prospectus – all we want is to be like every other normal European country and have the freedom to write our own future within the constraints of this interconnected world.

    All sorts of things become possible, when we are in a position to decide.

    We could decide to drive on right, we could legislate against the smoking of heather, we could make the wild haggis our national creature … but let’s leave all that until after Indy has been won.

  268. Ruby says:

    I wonder why my earlier post didn’t appear. Perhaps the name of that well know Scotsman poster is banned. DT is a big fan of FLB.

    Then the charming ‘FLB’ came to my defence. ‘Mr Torrance is a long established, serious and distinguished writer who has published books on Margaret Thatcher, Harold MacMillan [sic], and the Secretaries of State for Scotland, and this is just the latest of these. He doesn’t write hagiographies.’ Aw, shucks. She then offered a cybernat biography of Salmond: ‘Once upon a time, in a humble cottage in Linlithgow, the Greatest Living Scotsman was born. A strange golden light shone out of his nappy, bathing the faces of his proud parents with a warm glow…’ I fear I might have competition.

  269. Andrew McLean says:

    heedtracker says:
    5 August, 2016 at 11:04 am
    Context Heedy Context! from 1:57:00

    listen to what he actually says. and 10 points and a job as a propagandist for the state media if you can twist the story leaving out his support of a institution he is supposed to be wanting to abolish!

  270. Andrew McLean says:


    “Now whither intentionally through malice or un-intentionally through stupidity, this is as divisive a subject as abortion, and will only spook the people we try and convert to YES, why wouldn’t someone see that. the fact that their will never be a referendum on this subject EVER in Scotland should put an end to this ridiculous notion”

    FFS Man

  271. louis.b.argyll says:

    By definition of political ‘leanings’ a socialist party, lol, SHOULD have more anti royal members than a national party.

  272. Smallaxe says:

    An e-mail received this morning,of course Team GB organisers
    will be totally unaware of this.Wont they??

    Amnesty International UK

    As the Olympic Games opens in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil is experiencing an epidemic of police brutality. Police forces have been using excessive force to hurt and kill the civilians they are supposed to protect. One in five homicides in Rio last year was committed by the police.

    People who’ve been peacefully protesting have been met with extreme police violence – some of them paying with their lives. With the world watching Brazil,the police are getting away with murder.

  273. galamcennalath says:

    Going OT to consider perhaps the greatest threat we face!

    Poll of polls, Clinton 45% Trump 40%

  274. Nana says:


    I’ve been posting links on here since before indy and had been reading about the abuse scandal for a long time before I posted on this distressing subject. Is it so hot to handle purely because ‘big’ names are/were involved.

    The ones I blame are those who have shut their eyes and ears and allowed the abuse to continue while they reap rewards for doing so. Who exactly are the monsters, those who commit the act or those who allow them to.

    There is a lone protester who stands outside parliament for hours on end wearing a placard stating paedophiles at work here. I guess he will be asking himself where is the outrage?

    Keep getting stronger every day smallaxe and keep that axe sharp, I am honing my pitchforking skills haha

    Here’s a couple more links I meant to add earlier

  275. Andrew McLean says:

    Actually do you know what’s annoying me today, the quality of unionists!
    No man of letters, we have a boy with his greatest accomplishment, growing a beard, who can’t even get SNP bad without insulting broadcast engineers on the very medium he is being broadcast from. Who has to leave a forum whose only requirement is being able to put two words together that make sense.
    No world renown economist, only a pet food salesman with a penchant for Microsoft excel.
    No Labour party leader, just a bystander in a real life episode of the west wing.
    No opposition Leader, just a energetic junior scout leader who just loves mounting things, the more homoerotic the better.
    No statesman businessman put into the highest legislature, just a very bad employer who spies on her employees and like a demented exhibitionist loves getting, whatever her breasts look like that morning as much exposure as possible.

    Come on Yoons up you’re game, you are an embarrassment to your cause!

  276. mike cassidy says:

    Re the Corbyn/Smith leadership contest.

    Am I missing something –

    or is there still nobody raising the question of how a non-English constituency based MP could become Prime Minister in the Age Of EVEL.

    Is that claim being kept in reserve to attack Smith if he does become Labour leader –

    or can we now put it in the landfill bucket!

  277. Chic McGregor says:

    OT another great summing up by GM-K in the National, this time on why BREXIT cannot be ditched.

  278. heedtracker says:

    listen to what he actually says. and 10 points and a job as a propagandist for the state media if you can twist the story leaving out his support of a institution he is supposed to be wanting to abolish!

    Labour don’t want law made in the chamber of David Cameron’s friends, they want law made by those who served their country, is very Labour spinny, even for that dude.

    Chakrabarti’s precisely the sort of person he wants in the Lords, or just another day of UKOK bullshit artistry basically.

  279. louis.b.argyll says:

    Lochside, all very well to sweep away corrupt democratic system.
    The tentacles of evil oppression will be snapped by real democracy.
    Eg.. we’ll get Crown Estate ownership and therefore there’s nothing that the establishment can do about it.

    The Union of the Crowns however can wait.

    The Game of Thrones, is just that, once they loose real control of our interests.

  280. potter says:

    Can anyone help me ? why do HMRC trade stats indicate London exports 8 times more mineral fuel than Scotland.In 2013 England expored £20 billion of mineral fuel, roughly 9% of its total exports

  281. heedtracker says:

    Nice example of rancid The Graun’s style of sneaky British politicky bleh.

    Labour aren’t actually raging hypocrites, so slip this in near the end,

    “Others criticised Corbyn for deciding to nominate a peer after having said last year that he saw no reason to recommend any when the system needed reform. However, it is understood he has since felt the need to keep up the party’s numbers in the Lords as much as possible, especially since Cameron has nominated 13 peers.”

  282. chasanderson200 says:

    Re the comments above on the queen :
    I have relatively strong views on this but this is a debate for an INDEPENDENT Scotland.

    Eyes on the prize, let’s not open too many fronts at the same time (militarily speaking).

  283. galamcennalath says:

    “Ecosse, bientot les couilles libres sous le kilt”

    [“Scotland, soon your balls will swing free under the kilt”]

    Hope they are right!

  284. Phydaux says:

    A brilliant expose of D.Torrance and laugh out loud at the Weetabix face thingy.

    @ Breeks

    ” Unionism is the arbitrary rejection of freedom, but the likes of Torrance are merely minions for the real arbiters.They are cheap and expendable, and only exist so the real power brokers can avoid getting their hands dirty subverting Scotland’s interests ”

    Great post

    The Establishment revile the fact that we in Scotland see and do things differently…our different values, true empathy, ethics and conscience.They demonstrate an extremely distorted understanding of facts.Normal human beings find this difficult to conceive because facts are a basic part of our lives.We live by them, base our assessments and decisions on them.

    They gain special pleasure in usurping and taking from others; whatt they can plagiarise, swindle and extort are fruits far sweeter than those they can earn through honest labour.Pathological governments always consider dissidents as ” mentally abnormal ” and hence all the sneering, vile and contemptuous anti Scottish bilge they spout.

    I listened to the Child Abuse Cover Up link earlier… thanks for this Nana.Unsurprising but truly shocking.Makes my blood boil as yet another Chairperson of the Sexual Abuse Inquiry resigns. There are too many rich and powerful deviant paedophiles to make damn sure the truth will never be told. These people are like disease pathogens in a body, like a cancer on society.It is not power that corrupts, it is that corrupt individuals seek power. They have no moral or ethical sensitivities that will put a brake on their actions, with never a moment lost in remorse.

  285. call me dave says:

    Decided to take an opportunity and come off the retirement bench again so been working since middle of July… not up to speed the last few days.

    So missed all this yesterday: 🙁

    Peerage for the man who warned against currency union with an independent Scotland

    Companion of Honour for Osborne: A rare breed only 65 allowed!

    Surely the NO’s will be catching on by this time

  286. Nana says:


    oh dear how ever will we manage without the broad drooping shoulders of westminster

  287. heedtracker says:

    call me dave

    Daily Heil ends their Lord thing yesterday with,

    “Yesterday, Labour deputy leader Tom Watson called on Mr Straw and Miss Chakrabarti to turn down their gongs.”

    No he didn’t, yes he did, did he? Where and when, rancid The Graun says

    “Watson stressed he had no issue with Chakrabarti herself but criticised the wider issue of David Cameron’s resignation honours list.

    “Shami Chakrabarti is precisely the sort of person you would want in the Lords,” Watson said. “She’s a very highly regarded human rights lawyer, and we need that now.”

    Watson told BBC r4 tory gimps much the same too. Formulaic, confusing bullshit but does it matter, is it all done on purpose by main stream UKOK hackdom, or are they all just lazy and useless, sorry British lazy and useless?

  288. Thepnr says:

    @Andrew McLean

    Ouch! You are in a bad mood today and with good reason it seems 🙂

  289. John McGuire (Not Sarah Nuff ) says:

    This article sums up why I am a daily reader of the Revs site.

    In a concise and factualy – backed – up manner it exposes the shameful way in which the msm propogate lies and disinformation.

    A wrecking ball to the derelict facade.

  290. heedtracker says:

    BBC r4 lunchtime news presenting ongoing WTF on Chakrabarti elevation to the Lords as an attack on her credibility, which isn’t bad for those tory gimps. At least their UKOK spin’s got er, spin.

  291. Thepnr says:


    You link took me to a webpage where I could download an excel spreadsheet with all the data. I see though that exported £3.3 billion of mineral fuels in 2013 and Scotland £2.0 billion for the same year.

    The answer though probably lies in the “unknown region” in the same spreadsheet where “unknown” somewhere in the UK exported £13.2 billion of mineral fuels in 2013.

    Anybody hazard a guess as to where all these minerals fuels came from? Fecked if eh know.

  292. desimond says:

    Breaking news:

    Jeremy Vine to present Crimewatch.
    David Torrance to play the victim.

  293. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nana 12.41 Nana gonnie no post any mair Oil finds, ah kin see us drowning in ah sea of dept on Independence lol.

    Sickened by your earlier posting on Child sex abuse, they should be consentrating on those Scoial workers & Police (high ranking ) who shut down investigations & removed policemen/women/social workers who were doing their jobs.

  294. heedtracker says:

    BBC r4 lunchtime news debate with assorted tories all about who deserves to be a Lord or Lady, nothing about the actual democratic black hole of the Lords. Why would BBC ask plebs like me anyway. Its very UKOK stinky on the BBC today.

  295. Thepnr says:

    London exported £3.3 billion. Senility takes another giant leap 🙂

  296. heedtracker says:

    How to pop top Murdoch goon’s balloon. Why Ligger’s binge watched all the Bourne thrillers, could be down to a certain Disgruntled Walnut’s vague similarity to Jason. He’s a bit of a lefite too though, Matt Damon, not toryboy hacks like Ligger or Disgruntle Walnut.

    Andrew Neil @afneil
    Rewatched 1st 4 “Bourne” films. All base on premise our intelligence services are the bad guys. Unsustainable in age of ISIS etc. Outdated
    15 retweets 43 likes

    Wings Over Scotland ?@WingsScotland 2h2 hours ago
    Wings Over Scotland Retweeted Andrew Neil
    Rewatched first six Police Academy films. All based on premise police are lovable good guys. Outdated post-Ferguson.

  297. Nana says:

    @Ronnie Anderson

    No problem Ronnie, next find is all mine. Will have to get hubby laying a pipeline so we can sook it all up. There’s bound to be enough to keep the tilly lamp going for a wee while!

    On thon other subject it just stinks, all the way from the bbc to the government. Cover up and collusion with gongs and seats in the hol. If only the brave journalists would spill the beans Eh? instead of skulking round twitter looking for sympathy for their wounded pride.

    Have a good weekend Ronnie xx

  298. Smallaxe says:

    @ Nana

    I see from your last two links that not only are we Drunken kilt wearing mean haggis munchers but now we also manufacture
    Smart Bombs,smart bombs indeed the only smart bomb is one that
    is never produced in the first place.

    There are many things in the world today that can and do drive
    people to despair but I still hold the belief that there are more good people in this world than bad ones, unfortunately the bad have managed over centuries to hold on to the money and power.

    Hopefully with the arrival of the internet and ordinary people
    being able to communicate with each other and making their views known we can do something about it, I live in hope! Peace and much Love to you Nana,you are a precious resource here on Wings.

  299. Fred says:

    Ah, the hiss of the Tilly Nana, 100 strokes of the pump & the patch of deid midgies on the flair below the lamp in the morning! Sniffs rucksack & pours an early hauf! 🙂

  300. Proud Cybernat says:

    “The oil is running oot!”, the Yoons scream as if it actually mattered. And barely a month goes by without more and more oil being discovered in Scottish waters. The fact of the matter is that Scotland has always had and exported crude oil.

    Indeed, in the early 19th century, Scotland was the largest exporter of crude oil in the world. And WM benefitted rather handsomely from our oil exports back then too. Scotland’s Oil isn’t a new phenomenon – we’ve always had and exported crude oil. Scotland floats on the stuff. Nowadays it comes mainly from the North Sea but back in the day it was crude oil extracted from shale, hence all the shale bings we still see dotted all across Central Scotland. It was a massive industry back then but Scotland, just like today, saw little, if any, real benefit of it.

    When will the blinded people of this country open their eyes and see how they are being robbed stupid by London (and always have been)?

  301. call me dave says:

    The cross party delegation to the USA has other MSPs in it but some ‘Scottish’ labour party worthies are not happy. 🙂

    “She left the party rudderless and went on a jaunt to the USA”.

    The National.

  302. louis.b.argyll says:

    MAYBE ALL the mainstream TV pundits, commentators, press previewers and experts have been REPROGRAMMED.

    Would certainly explain why they all share an EQUALLY SKEWED MORAL COMPASS.

    Or was I being vile to suggest that.

  303. manandboy says:

    With thanks to Nana for the link.


    The Unionist Establishment are fighting tooth and claw to prevent Scottish Independence.

    This is one of the major reasons – 30 years at 100,000 barrels every day, starting now.

    BP UK announced on its Twitter page that the construction of the Clair Ridge development is now complete.

    The facility located west of the Shetland Islands is the second phase of development of the Clair field, the largest undeveloped hydrocarbon resource on the UK Continental Shelf (UKCS).

    “Looking good! Construction of Clair Ridge, 75 kilometres (46.6 miles) west of Shetland is now complete,” the company posted.

    PHOTO: BP Completes North Sea Clair Ridge Project
    The second phase includes two new bridge-linked platforms and new pipeline infrastructure to connect storage and redelivery facilities on Shetland.

    With an estimated 8 billion barrels of oil in place at the Clair field, BP is targeting 640 million barrels of recoverable resources from the development.

    Clair Ridge was designed to continue producing by 2050 at a peak rate of over 100,000 barrels per day (bpd).

    First oil is expected at the end of 2017, after the final hook-up and commissioning which follows the construction and installation of the final topside modules.

    With the start-up of Clair Ridge, BP hopes to raise its output by 500,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day.

    BP Premieres LoSal Technology at Clair Ridge
    “It will see the world’s first deployment of BP’s enhanced oil recovery technology LoSal, a water injection method that is expected to deliver an additional 40 million barrels,” BP explained in its website.

    The Clair field was discovered in 1977, but challenging reservoir features and technological limitations postponed drilling to the mid-199s.

    The first development phase was sanctioned in 2001 and production started in 2005, having produced around 80 million barrels so far.

    The first phase facilities are designed to continue producing until 2028, while the supermajor continues its appraisal drilling programme in the field to help define a possible third phase.

    BP operates the project with Conoco Phillips, Chevron and Shell.


    Brilliant, brilliant post, Stu.

  304. Andrew McLean says:

    Proud Cybernat says:Oil, masses of the stuff,

    Never mind that, that’s bugger all to do with you you sweaty jock!

    LOOK a dozen lords a leaping, can’t you keep up man? Twitter, by God its disgusting, him, with a beard and all and not even a member of ISIS!! Nazis, your all Nazis, God save the Queen! An new prince is born,Yipee PINE MARTINS Known as the “Loch Awe Four” look out!Sam FOXES boobs, Mortgage cuts Yipee, tourists attacked on holiday in AFGHANISTAN, tourists, not spies Tourists, AFGHANISTAN is the the new Benidorm, keep up man!, ZIKA run away ZIKA!! potholes bloody potholes, RBS Scotland’s debt, RBS Billions,!!!

    ========= system warning cache memory dump program in in progress=======.

    Where was I, yes oil, thank good Westminster will take care of it for us, dirty stuff, very expensive to drill for you know, why bother? plus the price is terrible, world glut, thank good for the Union they are such good guys aren’t they, so kind.

  305. Chic McGregor says:

    galamcennalath 12:29

    Also a clip from Good Morning Scotland, Radio Scotland 3/8/16.

  306. Nana says:

    @smallaxe I’m just a winger winging it, a small cog in a big wheel, everyone doing their bit to get us the big prize.

    I learnt to play cards and cribbage by the light of the tilly, many happy memories of getting to stay up late because of a storm or just cause the lights went oot!

    Couple more links

  307. Les Wilson says:

    Ref the whole Brexit situation, we now know there was no plan A, never mind a plan B. They never thought the brexiteers would win.
    The full folly of the referendum will not be known for some time yet but the skid marks are starting to show.

    They are really scared while artificially trying to stop from crying over what they have done. There will be a Brexit, it is not going away, and there will be a point where the EU will really pressure them to use article 50. It is sensible for the EU to do that, as they want to remove uncertainty.

    I do not think it will be easy for the Brits at all, the EU will want to discourage others from leaving, so the will concede very little. The brexit camp and Tory Westminster will go down in infamy as having made the most disastrous decision ever.

    The UK is going down the drain and will never again reach elevated position they once had. The break up of the Union will see to that.

    They gave no thought to the severe problems they have thrust upon us, for that there will be a price to pay.
    The English can do little about it, Scotland can, Scotland will.

    They have piled agony on all the people of the Uk with lies, propaganda and self interest. The people will pay a high price too, and already do, it will get worse, a lot worse.

    It is Scotland’s time, to make our own future,there is no other way forward for us.

    Stu, got my badges today, great thank you.

  308. louis.b.argyll says:

    Andrew McLean..

    Watch out for those momentary lapses in mental punctuation.
    And, while there’s not even a suggestion of vileness, you’re a bit heavy on the ‘cybernattery’.

  309. winifred mccartney says:

    Thanks for badges received today – I am proud to be a vile cybernat especially if that is the opposite of T above. I read the link about child abuse and have been really upset since – what is happening to our world and to our children – we are paying for police, childrens homes etc and therefore we are partly responsible for their actions. What have we become – when good people are being silenced and social workers are being thwarted and ignored. We all have to speak up and speak out if we know anything. The bravery of the few is amazing and I am so thankful for it. It is certainly not easy for them.

  310. Les Wilson says:

    Am I the only one who thinks Rev’s 2nd picture of Torrance, he has a deranged look on his face. Slightly mad maybe?

  311. Les Wilson says:

    I removed the http etc from the previous link, but reappeared on the link when posted. |Do not know why or how.

  312. DerekM says:

    @ Les

    It adds it itself Les if you try to post a youtube link with the http it will try to embed the video and the Rev will hit you with his hammer lol

  313. Robert Peffers says:

    @Albert Herring says: 5 August, 2016 at 9:08 am

    “I have heard from a reliable inside source that when BBC Scotland gets to “make” a TV programme for the network, the appropriate technical staff are brought in from Londinum.
    The really do think Scots cannae work cameras.”

    Ach! Albert, Yer inside source is nae doot richt. However, it is not a new phenomenon. Way back in the days when the BBC first established a TV studio in Glasgow my then best friend was a recently recruited BBC employee.

    This is in the days before, “The White Heather Club”, first was aired. All that Glasgow did in those days was a Scottish news Insert into the National BBC news Network and the Saturday Scottish Sports reports.

    Then came the day Glasgow was to produce the very first live TV play from Scotland. I was in the studio that evening. Thing was that as London first got the newest equipment and then they supplied the newer stuff on a system that radiated from London, there was no top line cameras & sound equipment in Scotland.

    Not only that but none of the Scottish based technical bods had been trained to use the newer stuff. So they not only brought into Glasgow the equipment used to screen a play but the staff to operate it.

    Nothing in BBC thinking has changed since the late 1950s. It is not really because the resident staff could not use the TV cameras – it is because Scotland only gets the old, clapped out and obsolete stuff, and that includes the stuff in front of the cameras & Microphones.

  314. James Barr Gardner says:

    Thanks Rev Stu,
    Got delivery by Aye Mail, I’am now suitably badged.

  315. Andrew McLean says:

    louis.b.argyll says:Watch out

    Intellectual snob, 🙂 what with your grammar and o levels, bet you got a higher English; Vile Moi, not a bit of it just following orders, President Truman 1945

    ‘Political Correctness is a doctrine, recently fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and promoted by a sick mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end!

    But surely “all done in the best possible taste?” Kenny Everett 1981.

  316. DerekM says:

    Very interesting article from BfS

    Now you Labour goons read it and learn something there will be no best of both worlds this time its a straight choice economic disaster inside the UK or prosperity inside the EU whats it going to be.

  317. ephemeraldeception says:


    Its a lot of smoke and mirrors. Londons values are inflated due to several things but one key factor is the trade in precious metals and gems (eg. de beers).

    London is considered a huge exporter in value of precious gems even though its just a middle man. Its not home grown wealth. Same for many elements. Mosty of scots major exports are home grown and not just service industry related.


    Same goes for parts of mineral fuels, if this is traded via London its a London export (I think – I may be wrong).

    As Scottish financial figures are not audited and not auditable, but just regional estimates the stats are not worth shit; Same for any UK REGION. Only valid stats are UK as a whole and shown in the budget.

  318. Les Wilson says:

    DerekM says:

    Thanks Derek, posted lots of links here over a long time, but few Youtube, if any.

  319. Chic McGregor says:

    Check out DM-K’s similar article in the National today. Same message.

  320. heedtracker says:

    Am I the only one who thinks Rev’s 2nd picture of Torrance, he has a deranged look on his face. Slightly mad maybe?

    When he’s on the couch, how to explain telling Scotland that Donald Trump is just like Alex Salmond, or that Scots are too thick to run a news prog etc?

    Is it enough to tell the therapist that he’s only giving the britnat toryboys what they want?

  321. Les Wilson says:

    heedtracker says:

    No, not at all, it would need to be televised!

  322. Iain says:

    O/t, Well I suppose we can all relax, trident is unlikely to ever be afforded by the UK as it’s mostly an American system which must be paid for in dollars. The pound is down 10% already against the dollar and when section 50 is triggered the pound will drop at least another 30%, so there is not the slightest chance of the UK affording it. The Royal navy would be reduced from 19 partially laid up ships to a second hand rowing boat and no money to crew it. So who says there’s no up side to brexit.

  323. JLT says:

    LOL …in many ways, Torrance is either playing the game and was looking to score points against the various layers of Scottish political soceity, or he was simply naive in his thinking that he could say whatever he wanted without realising the consequences (…surely not! He’s a seasoned journalist) that in one way, he has learned from the old saying, ‘You reap what you sow’.

    If a journalist is going to tarnish the vast majority of the Scottish electorate with condescending words and phrases, then he must realise that there will be a backlash.

    But then as said …maybe that was his intention all along; just to score points. If so ….not clever.

  324. JLT says:

    Thanks Rev Stu, Got delivery by Aye Mail, I’am now suitably badged

    As James Barr Gardner mentioned above; got my badges today, Stuart. I now have that many that I’m starting to tilt over to the left hand side with them all on my fleece!

    Thanks again!!!

  325. dakk says:

    @Les Wilson says:
    5 August, 2016 at 3:13 pm
    Am I the only one who thinks Rev’s 2nd picture of Torrance, he has a deranged look on his face. Slightly mad maybe?

    Something of a Matt Damon on poppers about him to my eye.

  326. Gary45% says:

    My last comment on “cereal boy” at least until he raises his head above the parapet again.
    Its a shame he has shaved his trendy beard off, as he could have been a member of a Wurzels tribute act wearing that carpet, oooh arrr

    On a serious note regarding London.
    What do they actually physically produce? apart from greed, corruption, etc. The majority of them would sell their granny for a shilling.
    I remember flying back to “Heafrow” from Athens years ago, just as London had been awarded the Olympics, 3 “suits” sitting behind me, were mouthing off about the money they were going to make on land sales regarding the games, no interest apart from MONEY.
    Typical saf east parasites.

    Was it not the dealings of “The City” that brought the country to its knees? and by all accounts it is going to happen in the near future, the parasites get away with it, with the excuse “London has to survive to save the UK”.
    If the cause of the crash had happened anywhere else in the UK, there would have been no bailout.
    Over inflated house prices, over inflated egos, over inflated arseholes.
    Indy Ref2.
    Aye it can’t come quick enough.

  327. louis.b.argyll says:

    Andrew, aye..
    .. I just wish I was right wing enough to be a proper snob. Anyway..

    Wings gets better, we need our all-comers debate to include some chaotic moments, where ideas overlap, exposing those normally hidden fringes.

    Someone has to spot the gaps, the gaffs and the guff.

  328. Les Wilson says:

    dakk says:

    Yeah, I like that one!

  329. heedtracker says:

    Am I the only one who thinks Rev’s 2nd picture of Torrance, he has a deranged look on his face. Slightly mad maybe?

    His therapy? There’s only logic and sanity to rule britannia tory BBC led hackdom, if you are an actual britnat yoonster.

    This week saw Kez Dugdale giving advice to the Clinton 2016 campaign, which is much like the Captain of the Titanic giving lectures on maritime navigation.

    ‘My hope is that the Clinton campaign won’t repeat the UK’s mistakes.’ Hillary Clinton speaks in Columbus, Ohio, July 2016. Photograph: Aaron P Bernstein/Reuters
    Monday 1 August 2016 12.00 BST Last modified on Friday 5 August 2016 15.36 BST

    The Brexit vote rocked the UK’s political establishment, stunning an elite that had taken voters for granted. Having spent a couple of weeks in the US and attended the Democratic convention, I fear the complacency that led to the UK establishment being turned upside down could be repeated in the White House race. There is no such thing as an established order in politics anymore, and that benefits populists such as Donald Trump. If Brexit taught us anything, it’s that nobody should just assume Trump won’t win.”

    She fears complacency and Disgruntled Walnuts fear twitter.


  330. Les Wilson says:

    In the National today they have an article on the Yes-tival in Skye in 30th Oct -1st Nov.
    This could be a great few days for Wingers? anyone going?

  331. louis.b.argyll says:

    Genuinely sorry to some on this site, but..un subscribed from ’38degrees’.

    Sure they have worthy causes..but can they just try harder down south where their raisin d’etre exists. We are fine up here..we know where our own solutions lie.

    Reason posted during unhooking..

    ‘Inbox trouble (true) and prioritising Scottish independence as a way to achieve many of the campaigns. You fail to make any difference.’

  332. heedtracker says:

    Rancid The Graun on the Ulsterisation of Scotland. Its bit mean that Graun tories didn’t “credit” Disgruntled Walnut for such brilliant toryboy insight though. Maybe Disgruntled Walnut just saying “Ulsterisation is now complete” doesn’t count in rancid’s union jack draped newsroom. You can see how this kind of thing gets going though UKOK media wise, like a boil turning into a tumour.

    “One particular phrase has been knocking around for months and, since last Thursday’s election, sparked debate among more mainstream commentators: the Ulsterisation of Scottish politics.”

  333. DerekM says:

    Thanks Chic its the same article nice to see it in the National 🙂

    @ Iain

    I wish that was the case Iain but those eejits will just add it to the 1.6 trillion debt and expect your grand weans to pay for it,they cant afford to lose that top seat in the security council without that they are no more important in the world than any other country not on the council and we all know the britnats just love thinking they are important in the world.

  334. Odet says:

    Rev Stu,
    Delighted with the Ayemail package’s arrival. About to advertise Wings on every jacket I posess.

  335. harry mcaye says:

    Nostradamus McTernan now apparently saying independence is dead and it’s the “UK come what may”. Yaay! On a Friday afternoon too.

  336. Rock says:

    Does the “independence supporting” NewsnetScotland still pay this man to write articles for it?

  337. Rock says:

    “The Ulsterisation of Scottish politics is complete”

    Is the “independence supporting” Sunday Herald paying him as well?

  338. Valerie says:

    Off topic

    I watched the Corbyn/ Smith debate last night, like a sad political anorak, given I have no real interest in them.

    I almost felt sorry for Corbyn, having won on a landslide just over a year ago, having to defend and debate the Oily Smith, who had nothing original to say.

    Then today, Corbyn goes and shows himself up big time by this appointment to the HoL. Labour really never learn anything.

    To then justify Chakrabati, by saying she is ideal because she wants to abolish the HoL? One woman and 800+ Lords?

  339. Capella says:

    Has he still not tweeted yet? I can’t stand the tension.

  340. heedtracker says:

    Oh god

    We should certainly not have legitimised David Cameron’s outrageous resignation honours by recommending anyone in this round of appointments. Shami Chakrabarti is a worthy candidate for the peerage, but she could have been included in a more established route to the Lords, rather than Labour cooperating with the last-ditch attempt of a prime minister to help out his mates.”

  341. Gary45% says:

    There lies the problem with the “establishment” labour party.
    Mr Corbyn, as far as I can see, stands for the genuine old school labour values.
    If they would accept they are NOT the tory party, and back the man who has decent moral values, and who looks like he will not bow down to the establishment, Westminster could easily have a new leader.
    Unfortunately the war mongers rule, hence they try to make Corbyn out to be some sort of moronic clown, to which the brain dead gullibles accept because they can’t think for themselves.
    If I resided in England I would back Corbyn 100%.

  342. Andy Murray is to carry the flag for team G.B. I thought he was a yes supporter ?i am sure his name sake who fought with Wallace would be proud of him

  343. louis.b.argyll says:

    Shami would have made a good Home Secretary in any future New (old) Labour government.

    Imagine the vileness that would bring from middle-earth.

  344. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Just stated on Radio SeeYouJimmy re Brexiteer politicos:

    ‘…they’re trying to get their heads around their new briefs’.

    Fair do’s. It’s National Underwear Day.

  345. Andrew McLean says:

    Blair, I used to have a Union Jack on the side of my uniform, but Louis says I am a cyberatt, so it is possible to be both, and my name is Andy, how spooky is that!

    The truth is independence is coming, we need to encourage nos to yes, in that the modern Scotland can encompass a Royalist loving but Westminster hating person, just as easily as a proud patriotic Scotsman who isn’t frightened from a flag!

    Eyes on the prize.

  346. Glamaig says:

    Heard repeatedly on Radio Scotland today that the SNP has ‘over 100,000 members’ able to vote for a new deputy leader, which is technically correct, but as far as I know the SNP has over 120,000 members. Would it really be too much trouble to use 3 more syllables?

  347. louis.b.argyll says:

    Now now Blair…we don’t have independence yet.
    And even afterwards, many cultural/sporting identities will forever be crossing over..Andy Murray is competing in a team, he’d look pretty stupid if he wore a different strip.

    AND BESIDES- when
    ‘the man who carried the Team GB flag’
    is able to hold his head high and say
    ‘he supports Scottish Independence’ with
    no ill feeling towards former
    compatriots, he will have risen above
    the cheap identity held by symbols

  348. heedtracker says:

    Blair Paterson says:
    5 August, 2016 at 6:13 pm
    Andy Murray is to carry the flag for team G.B. I thought he was a yes supporter ?i am sure his name sake who fought with Wallace would be proud of him

    If enough of their (what’s the opposite of ancestors) had voted YES 2014 , Andy would be carry the Saltire in Brazil.

  349. Andrew McLean says:

    Contemporaries surely? 🙂 English difficult for you too, I feel your pain brother!
    Don’t tell Louis. 🙂

  350. louis.b.argyll says:

    There is a belief
    that lives within us,
    a shared heart.

    The symbols of that belief,
    exist only on the surfaces
    of our identity.


    Is that vile?

    Slagging off a tennis player or even comparing him to a real freedom fighter is petty and distracting.
    Talk about how you’d prefer there was a Scottish team, or whatever, by all means.

  351. Fred says:

    A superb essay by Alan Riach in todays National, part 2 of “Scotland; The Promised Land”. Contrast this with the aero journalism peddled by McWhirter in the Herald. When the country faces the economic shambles engendered by the Brexit vote, McWhirter can find nothing better to exercise his talents than shite about princess’s. Not fit to lace Ian Bell’s boots!

  352. galamcennalath says:

    Brexit will happen. Scotland would be worse off. We need Indy. Sounds OK.

  353. heedtracker says:

    Andrew McLean says:
    5 August, 2016 at 6:39 pm
    Contemporaries surely?

    No. Blair’s dig at Murray there is pretty shabby but its not Wallace’s contemporaries that voted NO 2014. Antecedents maybe, inheritors, descendants!

    If enough of the descendants of the name sake who fought with Wallace, had voted YES 2014, Murray might well be carrying a Saltire in Rio 2016 tonight.

  354. louis.b.argyll says:

    Andy McLean..

    For all I know you could very well be a cyber-natter-jack-toad.

    having said that, re Murray flag etc, later tonight no doubt.. my sarcasm will spill over, but I keep my negatives within my personal space. (actually that’s probably a vile)
    Andy Murray probably reads wings, while W Wallace was pre Internet.

  355. louis.b.argyll says:

    Decendants?.. surely.

  356. Iain More says:


    On the Olympics I don’t care who caries the Team GB UKOK Ingerland apron. I wont be watching any of the Olympics anyway well except for maybe the girlies Beach Volleyball as long as there isn’t a Team GB UKOK Ingerland apron in sight.

    As far as I am concerned the Olympics is all about sets of Corporate Fascists rubbing themselves off against each other and flagellating one another and then there is the BBC/ITV etc who are just playing with themselves as they drool over Team GB competitors and hypocritically hiss at the Russians or anybody else they want to demonise.

  357. Clydebuilt says:

    What does it say about the Herald being happy to print Torrance’s scribbles every Monday…… stupid , biased or both.

    Talking about the stupidly biased Herald, are having a look at another of the papers employees, Kevin Mckenna…… He doesn’t fare any better .

  358. louis.b.argyll says:

    Er..descendants, as you say.

    If WW has descendants they’ll have survived via the matriarchs, as was the way, following insurrections.

    Unburdened from notoriety, free from the Medieval symbolism of names, and alive because of it.

  359. DerekM says:

    So what Andy will carry the team GB flag you do know that even though we hate it,it is still our flag if you look closely you will see the saltire.

    Though it would be nice if he wins gold for him to wear a c u jimmy wig and pump his fist in the air and scream free Scotland from oppression.

    Though i will settle for him just to do the best he can in a difficult situation.

  360. CameronB Brodie says:

    Pardon me but I think I’m coming over all green.

    Here’s one side of Rio you won’t here about, especially not from the sponsors and their media gimps. Somehow I doubt they support the global effort to bring development under the rule of law. Quite vile really.

  361. thomas says:

    “its no those that inflict the most , but those that suffer the most , that will win!”

    heard that quote today for an upcoming film , and while i urge you to look away from the sectarian element of it, it eloquently shouts out scotlands position today.

    Scotland forever!

  362. One_Scot says:

    I have to be honest, I don’t know the in’s and out’s of flaggate, but if I did not know any better I would think that it was someones twisted idea of trolling Andy and Scotland in a one-er.

  363. Paula Rose says:

    Where’s my badges? Everyone else seem to have theirs.

  364. louis.b.argyll says:

    We don’t need no stinking badges..

    Only jealous, as I don’t have any.

  365. Onwards says:

    Andrew McLean says:
    5 August, 2016 at 6:23 pm
    Blair, I used to have a Union Jack on the side of my uniform, but Louis says I am a cyberatt, so it is possible to be both, and my name is Andy, how spooky is that!

    The truth is independence is coming, we need to encourage nos to yes, in that the modern Scotland can encompass a Royalist loving but Westminster hating person, just as easily as a proud patriotic Scotsman who isn’t frightened from a flag!

    Eyes on the prize.


    Andy Murray should be one of the biggest assets when arguing independence with those who have a British identity.
    He supported independence in 2014, yet has no problem seeing himself as British as well.
    It doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.
    Britain is also a geographical and cultural identity. It doesn’t mean you have to support London political rule over Scotland.

    Personally, I would always describe myself as Scottish, not British, but we shouldn’t be shunning anyone who sees themselves as both. The argument should be that Scottish independence means a better Scotland and a better Britain.

  366. heedtracker says:

    One_Scot says:
    5 August, 2016 at 7:44 pm
    I have to be honest, I don’t know the in’s and out’s of flaggate, but if I did not know any better I would think that it was someones twisted idea of trolling Andy and Scotland in a one-er.

    Last one felt like one mega trolling session for teamGEnglandB. If we’re so bettetogether again, how come there’s no teamGB football team this year? Last one picked no Scots so that may have cheezed off some. Stuart Pearce is not exactly a Scotland fan.

  367. Dr Jim says:

    Celine Dion was honoured to represent Switzerland in the Eurovision song contest it didn’t make her Swiss it made her rich

    Professional sports people are like entertainers, where’s the gig and how much does it pay, and does it raise my profile

    Kerrching!! I’m honoured and I thank you

  368. Andrew McLean says:

    Descendent, yes, now don’t I look foolish!
    Anyway typical wings always leads you down tributary streams of interest,

    I will now return to my spawn, to be with the rest of my Bufonidae brothers, chased!

  369. Gfaetheblock says:

    Team GB football was always a one off for London as host nation. Scotland had no players that deserved to be picked at that time, nor did NI. No scandal, football fact.

  370. Kenny says:

    I see J.K. Rowling is once again involved in some “war of words” on Twitter.

    There is something unpleasant, petty and very controlling about this woman, who seems obsessed almost to the point of instability.

    As for Torrance, I only heard about him when he came out with the Salmond bio thing, and even then I imagined he was some crusty, unbalanced old man already in his 80s and losing his marbles, an embarrassment who some paper was unable to sack.

    A journalist he is not. A propagandist for a foreign country, however, he most certainly is. History will judge him rather strongly, I feel.

  371. Thepnr says:

    This is worth a watch. Artist Taxi driver giving some home truths.

  372. Kenny says:

    About Rowling, I wanted to add that it should be no surprise that she writes babyish fantasy books.

    Because there is something infantile about her everyday behaviour, like something has stoopped her developing normal, adult, enlightened values.

    So you could hardly expect her to come out with something like Voltaire or Diderot; “Harry Potter” is, in a way, a mirror of J.K. Rowling herself.

  373. John from Fife says:

    Je suis Ecosse

  374. Fred says:

    We don’t hear much about the Kilsyth Murray’s, I think the Gt grannie’s still living?

  375. shane fraser says:

    This piece is titled ‘The Formula’ Should have been titled ‘The Fanny’ No disrespect to the real thing, ye ken !

  376. yesindyref2 says:

    Wow. What a wuss.

    Perhaps the clue is that he was something or other to David Mundell and the Scotland Office, but it was Magnus Gardham picked to be the SO’s chief media officer .

    What is even sadder is that this wussy petulant sulker is 38 years old, but has never weaned himself off a soother.

  377. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Kenny, I just don’t see the point in slagging someone off for trivial reasons, like they write “kids books” or (as upthread) they wear “Fair Isle jumpers”. It advances no argument, it just seems petty and childish.

    Something interesting happened with Torrance this time. He has pooh-poohed a “Scottish 6” before, so no big deal, he might have thought, to do it once again. Polished wordsmith as he might fancy himself to be, he might have chosen his words more carefully this time, but it’s the audience reaction that’s much more significant. They mocked his deferential cringe.

    That’s what he found hard to bear. His opinion is now derided, not valued. (BBC take note.)

    As Charlie Hebdo has noticed, the Scots are now probably some of the most politically aware people on the planet, and we’re ready and willing to confront tosh when we detect it.

    Dry facts and figures do matter, but we must never forget the power of laughter. Directed, as it always should be, at stupidity, lies and rank propaganda, especially when those impostors are masquerading as fact.

  378. Luigi says:

    Come independence there is going to be one mother of a graveyard full of yoon commentators and journos. Fit for scrap, or able to recycle one’s principles, I wonder. 🙂

    What are they good for?
    Absolutely nuthin
    Say it again….

  379. galamcennalath says:

    @boris @ 9:15

    Wit! £200k for what she does? There must be 100,000s of Scots who could sit in front of a camera and auto Q and speak clearly and coherently! Not us all, mind you, just a Hell of a lot!

  380. galamcennalath says:

    Luigi says:

    “Come independence there is going to be one mother of a graveyard full of yoon commentators and journos”


    Personally I think the new Scottish state broadcaster should take over BBC’s assets, plus technical and admin staff , but not any journos and presenters. They can apply for new jobs and be considered based on merit and impartiality. Those tarnished with attempting to subvert democracy should not be considered under any circumstances.

    Commercial broadcasters will get their own acts together because they are, after all, commercial operations.

    As for the dead tree vendors, their days are clearly numbered anyway.

  381. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland –

    Good points re Torrance.

    He brought the ridicule upon himself because he hadn’t prepared properly.

    Putting the issue of BBC bias aside for a moment, at least part of the reason Torrance gets regular gigs must be that he does sound assured, has a pleasant speaking voice, the right kind of accent, and can string sentences together as well as any other freelancer out there. When he’s prepared and relaxed he does well in front of a camera.

    He’s also very effective at giving the impression that he’s academically objective – a lot of folk who aren’t as familiar with his work and affiliations as we are might easily assume that he’s a political scientist, psephologist or suchlike.

    For example, this extract is from an RT interview 6 months prior to the indyref – NB his final comments regarding the prospect of an indy Scotland ‘in Europe’.

  382. Fairliered says:

    Kenny, history won’t judge Torrance. It will either ignore him or ask “who”? So should we.

  383. One_Scot says:

    I don’t believe that there is anything more right in the universe at this point in time than Scotland being an Independent country.

  384. yesindyref2 says:

    Talking about poisoning and shutting down a debate, the following has been circulated around by Unionist posters, making it look as though the Scot Gov is admitting to the last 21 years always being in deficit bar 1 year, and implying Scotland is worse off than the UK when it comes to deficits.

    Some are using the shortened version:

    Scotland has run a net fiscal deficit in 20 of the past 21 years

    the more honest use the longer version but twist its meaning and don’t mention the context:

    Despite being in a relatively stronger fiscal position than the UK, Scotland has run a net fiscal deficit in 20 of the past 21 years

    The context is a report from during the Indy Ref examining a future oil fund, and dicussing 4 options of when monies could be added to the oil fund:

    Just ask a Unionist why they are quoting that out of context.

    “Not fair! not fair!”, they hiss. “It isn’t fair, my precious, is it, to ask us what it’s got in it’s nassty little pocketsess?”

    That would be the context of the quote – how best to set up an oil fund.

  385. GrahamB says:

    Just arrived this evening in Austria via Netherlands and Germany. We’ve spoken to a good few people on the way and they all understand the difference between Scottish and English, especially after the EU referendum. They can’t fathom why ‘we’ would want to be out of the EU even with all its faults but were aware that Scotland voted to stay in.
    They agree that the only possible way is through independence and are very supportive of our ambitions.
    So it looks as if we will get good support from Europe for indyref2 as long as the general population gets its say, unfiltered by the BBC or MSM.
    Coming back via Swtzerland, France and maybe Belgium so will be able to get a snapshot of how a decent portion of Europe views us.
    Then we have to get back out round our own doors but that’s not a chore any more or even a means to an end, it’s what we have to do with hope in every step.

  386. Sandy says:

    Oh, shit, forgot to put larry on the list. Will have to ask Betty to add himto her next list. She owes me a favour or two.
    (Cameron’s after-thoughts)

  387. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh wow, cool, coolsy, wow. A two page UK Gov propoganda sheet (Scotland: Macroeconomic and fiscal performance) had the short version “Scotland has run a net fiscal deficit in 20 of the past 21 years.”, the one WITHOUT pointing out

    Despite being in a relatively stronger fiscal position than the UK”

    (modified 21 August 2014 16:18:29)

    drip by drip, their deceit to drown us in, the insidious sneaky work of UK Gov and its “Scotland Anal isis”.

  388. yesindyref2 says:

    Anyway, back to Sam David Torrance, I found [1] this definition:

    yips: extreme nerdiness causing a gopher to piss in ‘is pants

    [1] I found it on my keyboard after it mysteriously mangled “extreme nervousness causing a golfer to miss easy putts.”

  389. louis.b.argyll says:


  390. yesindyref2 says:

    I see from a picture on Kevin Average’s timeline he’s finally realising why nobody bothers to take his blogs apart:

    The amount of energy neccessary to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it

  391. Big Jock says:

    Sorry I may get flack for this but Murray seems to have become a total Brit. He said it was his proudest moment representing his country. The UK is not a country and the Union flag is despised by the majority of Scots. When is one of our millionaire sportsmen going to stand up like the black panthers and stop towing the line. Murray can do as he wishes but don’t expect me to support team GB.

  392. marga says:

    Can vouch for the international credibility of David Torrance (or at least in Catalonia) during the runup to the referendum

    In an interesting documentary, he was followed around by a Catalan journalist while he gave the No view (expressed decidedly more cautiously than at least what you are all quoting above).

    That was then, who knows, he may resuscitate for Inderef2 – suppose all Catalan journos will have him bookmarked.

  393. Ian Brotherhood says:

    This wee vid should remind us how powerful public opinion can be, and may be of particular interest to younger Wingers who aren’t aware of the Scottish dimension (see the comments by ‘Gaudd’)

    The Feb 15th (2003) gathering in Glasgow was, and remains, the biggest-ever demonstration by Scots. Documentation of that event is remarkably scant (e.g. next to nothing via Youtube).

    Can I please suggest that we start focussing some attention on Glasgow Green, Sep 18th?

  394. crazycat says:

    @ Big Jock

    This is not flak 🙂 .

    All the frothing BritNats are whinging about Murray being chosen to carry the fleg. Imagine what they would be like if he had refused and they had found out about it.

    I was never that keen on him till he made his belated comments in September 2014; I then relented a bit. It maybe isn’t fair to expect him to act politically.

    I’ve also never supported a sportsperson because of where they were born – but then I’m not really into sport, so I probably don’t understand. (I do of course find it very amusing that all the Henmans et al never won any grand slams, but Rusedski – who was still essentially Canadian – got to a final and Murray actually won; the way that stuck in the BritNats’ craws was hilarious.)

  395. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 22:11,

    Had a look at that Torrance interview you kindly linked – can’t help but marvel at how much has changed in the time since!

    His “best of all possible worlds” federalist viewpoint has certainly been overtaken by events, not least the infamous “Vow” and the “least-common-denominator” Smith Con. As for his EU comment, well…!

    I don’t know if he was just putting on a “balanced” front. Maybe in feeling secure that indy wouldn’t happen, he felt more able to concede points to the opposition. But you would think that any intelligent person who truly held the opinions he expounded then would have switched to indy in frustration by now. (What actually happened to your federalism with Smith, David? Or the EU?)

    Instead, under increasing pressure for a very likely indyref2, the “impartial” mask seems to have slipped. His best response to an indifferent tone-deaf domineering UK appears to be meek full-bore ScotBut cringe.

    It’s sad really. But little wonder that he is now being ridiculed.

    If he were to use this self-imposed timeout to face the facts like a proper journalist, he might do a whole lot better. (Assuming he could find a platform for a change in tack, that is.) But I’m not holding my breath…

  396. yesindyref2 says:

    the Union flag is despised by the majority of Scots

    I suspect the majority of Scots would disagree with that. I don’t despise it and I’ve supported Indy for more than 40 years.

    SSAS 2014 – on a scale 1 to 7 of how British people felt, 72% of people in Scotland put themselves at 4 or higher, compared to 87% feeling Scottish. So a lot of people consider themselves Scottish AND British, myself included.

  397. yesindyref2 says:

    Looking again at that “how British” chart, 1 is the lowest people can rate it, and 11% go for that, which means 89% feel at least some British. So I’d say an absolute maximum of 11% might “despise” the British flag, and some of them might not either. Somewhere less than 11% is hardly “most”.

  398. defo says:

    Yips indeed. I blame the rigours of the tour, absent father figure…
    Re. pic 2. Looking like an Anxious Brasil sort of day?

  399. Grouse Beater says:

    Listened sporadically to Call Kaye as I drove to important meeting today – can’t recall a single Scots accent among phone-in callers and ‘experts’, except the interviewer, and even that was aching to be BBC standard southern.

    Can’t see how we will attain self-governance when all the experts BBC push are English. Ah, well. Two more essays:

    Of Bourne:
    Of Bombs:

  400. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland –

    Thanks for the response.

    ‘…any intelligent person who truly held the opinions he expounded then would have switched to indy in frustration by now.’


  401. Big Jock says:

    I don’t feel British at all and I doubt that even half of Scots feel British! The Union flag is divisive and sectarianism in Scotland.

  402. Cactus says:


    Rockin’ the summer nights tonight, go Idlewild at the Kelvingrove bandstand le soir!

    Hey Glasgow.. you’re so cool ?

  403. Cactus says:

    Anybuddy watching Rio the now?

    They keep saying the word.. Independence


  404. Cactus says:


  405. Cactus says:

    Go Andy!

  406. Cactus says:

    When we’re there.. and when someone asks you, “Why did you vote Yes to being independent?”

    We say, “We did it for Scotland”

    See you at the party..

  407. David says:

    Palestine has a team.
    Refugees have a team.
    Scotland does not have a team.
    Not yet.

    Maybe we will for Tokyo 2020.


  408. galamcennalath says:

    David says:

    Scotland does not have a team.
    Maybe we will for Tokyo 2020.

    I really hope this is the UK’s final Olympics.

  409. Robert Louis says:

    Andy Murray can carry whatever flag he wants. It may however influence how I and other Scots judge his character. Freedom of choice AND thought, and all that. If he likes team UK, that is his choice, he isn’t a politician. I guess we must never forget his wife is English, and he no doubt has lots of people around him, persuading him of his viewpoints. Such pressures are hard to ignore. Drip, drip, drip. Little by little.

    As regards some comments above, regarding the union jack, answers depend upon the way a question is asked. I think Indeyref2 might well be alone in Scotland, in his loving embrace for the union jack.

    I support independence, but ALL my life have never had any affinity with the butchers apron, nor ever will. I know precious few Scots who would happily claim the union jack as THEIR flag. Most see the Saltire as their flag – as it indeed is. The union jack is a divisive colonial symbol in Scotland, and that is why it is kept flying by unionists and English businesses. It says, ‘London rule’. I will rejoice the day I see that tawdry colonial flag removed from Edinburgh castle. I’ll happily burn it myself, once it is down.

    Sports people from Scotland, in many ways are forced to ‘play the game’, regardless of their personal views, because much of the money and team selections come from England. It is that simple, so in some ways I feel sorry for Andy. We all remember the unforgivable abuse he received at the hands of the English, for daring to suggest that he wouldn’t support the English football team – why should he?

    Although the Olympic team is called team GB, it is actually team UK. Many Scots sportspeople who would dream of (and could be) going to the olympics do not go because the number of places is limited, and the bulk of those go to England. Were Scotland independent, then many more Scots sports people would be able to participate.

    Anyway, I won’t be watching this Olympics. It is a classic modern day example of the corruption associated with modern sport. No wonder ordinary Brazilians were against it, there is no benefit for them. When you see the sanitised Copacabana beach or stadia on TV, just remember that a short distance away, just out of shot, there are millions of very poor Brazilians who will see no benefit whatsoever from the Olympics.

    Corporate business and wealthy corrupt officials are the winners in Brazil, the sport is merely coincidental. That is how it will be remembered.

  410. Fran says:

    RE Murray. Lee the loon alain. Nain o us will ever be in his position. He has enough on his plate from winging yoons and English Nats. He plays tennis not a politician.

  411. Graeme says:

    Re the union jack,

    I don’t know what percentage of Scots despise the UJ but whatever that figure is I know I’m one of them and I would suspect a much higher percentage of the worlds population despise that flag and what it stands for more than the Scots which is sad really

    there was a time when I did see it as my national flag but that day is long gone (long before the referendum) and any respect I ever has for it died the evening of the referendum in George square

    The sight of the UJ makes my skin creep to me it’s an offensive symbol of colonial oppression, corruption & imperialism and I wont be supporting any sportsman/woman performing under it’s banner

    If the Cook Islands with a population that couldn’t half fill Hampden Stadium can have their own olympic team why the hell can’t we


  412. Dorothy Devine says:

    Fran , thanks for echoing my thoughts – now the rest of you ,
    Leave the loon alain!

    If in 2020 Scotland has a team and Andy s asked to carry the Saltire I think he will burst with pride.

    As a P.S he is married to an awfy bonny English quine.

  413. Ken500 says:

    Torrance can no longer justify Tory policies. Cameron is the worst PM in history. Instead of writing nonsense the Unionists should read a few history books. The Unionist Ulsterisation of Ireland. The Partition of Ireland 1922. The majority in Ireland wanted Home Rule.

    The Balfour Agreement 1917 by unelected Lords. The Unionists illegally bombing the Middle East for years years, destroying the world economy. Now the exit from the EU against the majority wishes. 17Million out of 63Million. A minority. The House of Lords should be abolished instead of stuffed full of unelected sycophants. It’s just a total disgrace.

    The Tories committed electoral fraud in 29 constituencies. What is being done about it? The Tory/Unionists have destroyed the world economy. Westminster fraudsters,murderers and liars. It goes from one to another ruining the UK economy and imposing on Scotland policies the majority do not want.

    Scotland won the Olympics – pro rata.

  414. Ken500 says:

    Andy Murray always wears the blue and white strip – Scotland’s flag – not the red and white one.
    At least he was chosen to carrying a flag. He is an international sportsman and has put Scotland on the world stadium. Brought in £Millions/Billions to Scotland. Including the Davis Cup twice to Glasgow. He is supported by British tennis fans. Sport crosses borders.

  415. Andrew McLean says:

    Well said,
    Big jock
    If you live in certain parts of Scotland, the apron is certainly synonymous with the oo, so get where you’re coming from.
    A trip my good lady wife and I have done for a few years, I can honestly say I have never met anyone who doesn’t know the difference between Scotland and England, actually the proposition that anyone in Europe hasn’t heard of Scotland is stupidly personified. Some European people I have spoken to actually thought we were nearly independent already. Possibly like you the reason we actually meet real Europeans is we don’t use hotels, but use campsites even Aries, where you meet far more locals than fellow travelers.
    Perfectly put.

  416. Dorothy Devine says:

    I hadn’t read the Thunderer before but my! what a complete fool the young man with the beard has made of himself with the comment about Alex Salmond .

    Mr Salmond’s comment remains the mildest and most perfect of put downs and yet we have the bearded young man bleating about an ad hominem attack which does not exist and which is easily verified by any with the ability to google and an interest in accuracy.

    Personally ,I am sick and tired of the so called “experts’ who are so far from expert and much closer to being loud mouthed , smug ,self opinionated prats.

  417. Conan the Librarian™ says:

    Dorothy; please don’t conflate beards with arseholes.

  418. Kevin Evans says:

    I bet he was the same at school.

    He’d sit there shouting his opinion in the playground but as soon as someone pulled him up on it he’d go running to the teacher complaining about bullying.

    Grow up man and grow a pair you pathetic individual.

  419. Andrew McLean says:


    Exactly, Torrance accused Alex of a argumentum ad hominem attack, the word attack is superfluous, but it was not fallacious of Alex to point out the following, and I quote Alex here “However, allow me just two observations. First, I hardly know David Torrance. And secondly – and much more problematically for a biographer – he doesn’t know me at all.”

    It is clear that Torrance’s statement is incompetent in foundation, and shows a poor understanding of Latin, or more correctly English composition.

    All Alex did, and it is not a crime, was and I quote 2 Corinthians 11:19 “For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.”.

  420. Breeks says:

    OT Just reading Italy has passed laws to encourage supermarkets to give unsold food to the needy. Seems France did likewise in February.

    Cannot imagine why this didn’t make the news in UK…. I expect Westminster and it’s BBC poodle are content that we lucky sods in the UK already have food banks which do the same thing.

    Article 50. What are they waiting for?

    Indyref2. What are we waiting for?

  421. Andrew McLean says:

    There is a mountain to climb in this battle let article 50 climb it,
    Sun Tzu

  422. Bill says:

    John McTernan looking for a Cybernat to use for his next story!

    Don’t worry I’ll behave but look how he tries to defend his assertion that it’s ludicrous for their to be a Scottish take on news.

    We end up debating NATO and Trident, then he switches to goad mode!

    “once in a life time referendum” apparently!

  423. Robert Louis says:

    Doroth Devine at 0722 am,

    Quote “Personally ,I am sick and tired of the so called “experts’ who are so far from expert and much closer to being loud mouthed , smug ,self opinionated prats.”

    Nailed it.

  424. Fred says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood, Awesome! but a great pity that Tony Benn’s son proved to be a complete tosser! How many Labour MP’s attended the protest?

  425. G H Graham says:

    I’ve noticed the same pattern of behaviour on BBC Radio Shortbread when they invite “experts” to speak.

    It’s rare to hear any of them educate the audience with a Scottish accent. It’s as if the research department is actually in London so they naturally trawl their contact list which will of course be stuffed with names also based in & around London.

    Thus, the drip drip propaganda effect is to convince the provincial audience that Scots are inferior in skill & knowledge & that it is the superiority of our southern neighbour upon which we rely even for our very existence.

    One can only imagine how they must cringe & self loath at Pacific Quay at the mere hint of Scottish cultural self confidence & exuberance when it does manifest itself.

    One can only hope that the BBC’s house harridan K**(e) A**** builds her retirement home on Rockall.

  426. Nana says:

    Get Mansfield as head of the Inquiry

    Serious-fraud-office-talks-mp-Green/Bhs collapse


  427. galamcennalath says:

    Bill says:

    “once in a life time referendum”

    Aye, right! They can dream on.

    Anyone who thinks that better hurry and find a cliff to jump off. That will ensure they ‘endure’ the experience once. However, I sincerely hope there will be two in my lifetime! And, more if necessary!

    They thought IndyRef1 would be a walkover, 30:70 perhaps. They got a shock.

    They know IndyRef2 will be a quite different event. Thus the wishful thinking about it never happening.

    Brexit will happen, IndyRef2 will happen.

  428. Robert Louis says:

    For info, this look like it could be a hoot..

    YEStival, Sligachan, Skye, 30th September-1st October.

    Excellent idea. Tell your friends etc..

  429. Ian Brotherhood says:

    So, DT will be on Shereen’s show imminently, and we’ve already been told that he’ll explain WHY HE LEFT TWITTER!!


    He’s in a hole.

    Will he take the opportunity to clamber out, or keep digging?

    We’ll soon find out.

  430. louis.b.argyll says:

    We needn’t cut off our nose to spite our face..

    Neither should we decry TRUE SCOTS WHO..

    .. carry the wrong flag.

  431. Lochside says:

    Andrew McLean: you retorted ‘FFS MAN’ with a quote implying that I was stupid or devisive in relation to my stance on abolition of the monarchy. You further stated:

    ‘Ok lets kill of this Queen thing, Personally its not even an argument for another day, if I had to vote it would to keep her, and every SNP supporter I know would do the same, the only person that has ever mentioned this to me was an ardent Labour supporter, who is quite French'(??)…

    Who are you to tell me or anybody else on here to eat their fucking cereals?

    As you like quotes, here’s one for you:
    ‘The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians’

    I noted that you want rid of the House of Lords, so you exhibit a strange and confused approach to your political belief: abolish one bag of ‘unelected shitebags’ for keeping a family of same?

    Get this: this site has evolved over years of debate..we don’t all agree.. but accept that we are on the same side..even lovers of the regal silk and people who have a problem with ‘French’ types. So don’t attempt to stop debate on here. I don’t know how long you have been posting on here, but it’s time you learned that basic fact.

  432. heedtracker says:

    Nice display of UKOK politicky stuff from Dr NO. Kevrage the dog food salesman seems to be able slide in and out of WoS comments section, when he thinks his presence is merited, so hardly blocked. If “wings” was never off the box, radio, printed in all yoonster tory press, even rancid The Graun’s blind date section:D

    Yoon culture is a very weird place, red and blue tory.

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 15h15 hours ago Edinburgh, Scotland
    Wings blocks opposing opinion from his blog and then goes on to accuse David Torrence of being afraid of debate

  433. Foonurt says:

    Astonishing, thoan fuull trawler-man beard syndrome.

  434. Smallaxe says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood,

    Ian, re: The Yes Rally 18th September at Glasgow Green will WOS be there? If so I would do my utmost to attend.

    theyesrally @

  435. Meg merrilees says:

    Lots of remarks overnight about Andy Murray and THAT flag! Can you imagine the media storm if he had said “NO”?
    How do Northern Ireland athletes feel having to be part of Team GB and not Team UK?
    Engerland just doesn’t get it and it got up a lot of noses for them to watch Andy carry THAT flag.

    I had the oo march past my house last week – ugh!, was sad to see THAT flag flying over Stirling castle when I visited this week -ugh!, but there is a ginormous Saltire flying free at the Bannockburn Rotunda and I feast my eyes on that.

    Andy is proud to be Scottish and is one of our finest sportsmen attending the Olympics where he is going for gold and I wish him luck.

    We’re on our journey too and we have to focus on the golden prize. Let’s not get distracted but support and tolerate differing views and actions until we win through ( then we can bash the s..t out of each other!)

  436. Elizabeth says:

    Ian Brotherhood @ 12:41

    I just posted this on Stu’s latest thread.

    “Re David Torrance – he was one of the guests this morning on the Radio Scotland ‘Shereen’ programme (10:00 -11:30). Heated discussion between him and Sergio Cassi about Brain family. Cassi said they had shown a commitment to Scotland, studied Scottish history etc and had a very good case for remaining and that it would be good for Scotland. Torrance described those reasons as ‘spurious’ much to Cassi’s annoyance. I was reminded again how very dislikeable I find Torrance. He had his usual guff about the Scottish Six and the misrepresentation of his TV blooper blaming his words in the first instance on ‘being Jet lagged’. On leaving Twitter, I think he said he was fed up being told his journalism was rubbish.
    You can listen to Shereen here:

  437. Fred says:

    Heard it! two Shereens for the price of wan!

  438. Iain More says:

    My last word on Torrance – send for the Honorary Consul to Estonia.

  439. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Louis: “I think Indeyref2 might well be alone in Scotland, in his loving embrace for the union jack.

    That’s misrepresentation of what I said, and it seems to me misrepresentation is a Unionist trait, so – are you a Unionist?

  440. Andrew McLean says:

    Lock side
    Where on earth have I stiffed debate, and there is a world of difference between a figure head and the House of Lords, maybe if you post on a political form you should know that, the reference to French, obviously escaped you, I will make it clearer for you, he would introduce them to the guillotine.

    Now point out were I have ever say keep the royal family, ever! I mentioned the debate on the queen is a diversion that will never bring the No’s to us, I don’t mean her ill but it’s unlikely when or if we do vote on that, it will be a different monarch and that it another story altogether.

    As for eating cereal, it is proven to reduce blood pressure, when part of a balanced diet, so good point, eat your cereal and you might be less likely to go off on one, where no offence was intended and bust a blood vessel !

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