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Wings Over Scotland


The coming man

Posted on March 28, 2014 by

A new poll by Populus for the Daily Politics is out today, with some interesting rankings for the four UK party leaders. (Which in a UK context includes Nigel Farage, despite his representing a party without a single MP while there are seven other parties at Westminster who do have seats.)

dppleaders

As you can see, UK respondents were asked to identify the three main qualities they associated with each leader, from a list of positive and negative ones. It’s fair to say none comes out covered in glory – fewer than one in five people think the UK’s Prime Minister is “competent”, for example. But the balance is striking.

From the lists of the respective top-10 answers above, we’ve done a quick and dirty bit of arithmetic measuring each man’s admirable qualities against their bad ones. So “principled” scored plus points, while “indecisive” scored minus points.

(We’ve counted “weird” as a negative for the purposes of the feature, although all of our favourite people are at least quite weird.)

These are the results:

DAVID CAMERON: positive 85 negative 109 overall -24

NIGEL FARAGE: positive 50 negative 116 overall -66

ED MILIBAND: positive 23 negative 133 overall -110

NICK CLEGG: positive 33 negative 144 overall -111

That all four are well into the red is no great shock – people don’t like politicians.

But for Miliband – with none of the responsibilities or guilt of power – to have barely snuck in a single point ahead of Nick Clegg, and to have actually scored substantially lower for positive qualities, must make horrendous reading not only for Labour voters, but for those who are pinning a No vote in the independence referendum on the promise of a Labour government at Westminster making everything fine.

We’ve been pointing out for months on end that Labour isn’t going to win in 2015, of course, for all manner of reasons. But the key one, overriding all others, is that the British public simply can’t abide Ed Miliband. And when your leader is less popular than one of a party with no MPs, and straining to be marginally more beloved than Nick Clegg, you just don’t win elections.

Even if people like your policies, if they don’t trust you to be able to execute them they won’t vote for you. They might think their Prime Minister is “arrogant”, “smug” and “out of touch”, but they’d rather put up with such relatively inconsequential flaws than entrust their country to one who’s “weak”, “indecisive” and “out of his depth” – three of the top five responses for Miliband, none of which appear in Cameron’s top 10.

When an opposition leader who hasn’t had to do anything unpopular or make any difficult decisions can’t even out-rate the PM on “principled”, his party has a catastrophe on its hands. And so does anyone planning to vote No in September in the belief that UK Labour will ride to their rescue.

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88 to “The coming man”

  1. Jimbo says:

    Leaving politics and/or Political Party preferences out of it altogether – to me, Miliband always comes across as very insincere.

  2. Robert Louis says:

    The harsh truth, right there, in the last paragraph. Miliband has had a lot of time, and just doesn’t connect with people, regardless of his ambitions for ‘one nation’ Britain (a slogan he borrowed from an old Tory).

    Labour could even promise devo max, if we all vote NO, and it will mean nothing, because Labour will not win the next UK election, so they cannot deliver. A NO vote simply condemns Scots to another four years of London Tory rule. It’s that simple.

  3. onzebill says:

    If the English voters think Miliband is bad, what would they make of JoLo Lament, Baillie & Gray, what a stomach churning threesome they are.

  4. They picked the wrong brother. I don’t support Labour but had a bet on David Miliband to be the next PM, once upon a time.

  5. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Who would have thunk it, Milliband a whisker away from coming bottom of the pile of rogues but even worse than that getting beat by a guy whose party has no M.P.’s. I’d say this is embarrassing for Labour but on second thoughts it isn’t embarrassing it is much much worse than that! 🙂

  6. Iain More says:

    Alex Salmond would landslide England if there was a civic nationalist equivalent of the SNP in England. Yet AS gets more hate in the Brit Nat Press and Media than any other politician living or dead. The number of English folk I know that want us to loan out Salmond to them is staggering.

  7. Alt Clut says:

    As so many of us suspected Farage has given the UK populist right the acceptable face that the obviously fascist BNP never could.

    It’s odds on that UKIP will do well in the European elections and the immediate effect will be that the Tories and Labour will fall overthemselves in the rush to steal UKIP’s clothes. Get ready for the biggest lurch to the right in the centre of gravity of UK politics since the arrival of New Labour.

    We all have to be ready to drive home to voters in Scotland that we ‘ain’t seen nothing yet’ in terms of attacks on the poor, ethnic minorities, gays, women and just about anyone with progressive ideas.

    It won’t be a landslide and it wont be fascism but; until recently I lived for forty five years in various parts of England and I know how vulnerable a large chunk of the electorate there will be to this poison.

    More than ever we MUST, MUST, MUST win on September 18th. !

  8. Breastplate says:

    The amount of media attention that Farage gets is incredible. It’s almost as if they want as many people as possible to absorb his message by osmosis.
    What are the chances of him being the next Deputy Prime Minister?

  9. G H Graham says:

    That’s the kicker Stu.

    There is almost no chance Labour will win which is a double whammy for Scotland.

    Even if you believe Labour’s mish mash of feeble commitments to more devolution, there’s a higher chance of bumping into Elvis Presley serving kippers in Arbroath, than Labour delivering anything in their Devo Nano paper.

    And if anyone thinks Cameron is going to deliver a single additional slice of authority to Holyrood if he’s returned to office, they need to visit a psychologist to be treated for delusional behaviour.

    Thus, voting NO will result in either nothing changing which I predict is the best outcome, or more likely result in a colossal slashing of the Barnett formula & the beginning of the end for Holyrood.

    Armed with all the authority his south east of England’s constituent’s will have provided, Cameron will work to ensure that the question of independence will be buried for decades to come.

    And we’ll all suffer as Britain is delivered more austerity, while the debt mountain rises towards £2 trillion with no sign of it ever getting paid down.

  10. Desimond says:

    Day after day I sit at this desk and across the way a TV shows BBC News channel with subtitles. Every now and again a typo appears. I have just read this one which seemed so very apt.

    “In the second Euro debate, Clegg v The Raj”

    Poor Nigel, if only!

  11. Murray McCallum says:

    Very generous of Nigel Farage to stand up for “Britain” despite having no representation of any kind in Scotland.

    Why bother with elections if such a person can be recognised as doing this?

    Maybe the problem is one of terminology – “Britain”?

  12. Alfresco Dent says:

    I’m of the firm belief that this is all part of a plan for Westminster to mimic the USA. Two parties which create the illusion of democracy but which only exists to serve itself.

    The irony is that within the Westminster system it doesn’t really matter if you win or if you lose. Either way you’re guaranteed a substantial salary plus expenses & a big juicy retirement pension. All paid for by us! Where is the incentive to succeed and to do so by bettering the lives of the general public?

    Westminster is a busted flush. The sooner Unionists wake up to this the sooner we can crack on and make Scotland a better, fairer & more democratic country.

  13. heedtracker says:

    Local liars for a local people! Or, I still havnae heard anything back from Councillor Wullie Young here in Aberdeen to any Labour gives you lashings of devo so vote no queries I sent him. Wullie cant be out of his depth, weird, out of touch, weak, as he has been a Labour Devo Commissioner for 2 years now. Although he’s probably not going to answer anyone as its all bullying. Everyone who disagrees, questions, votes YES not Labour, is just a big horrid bully. http://news.stv.tv/north/266153-willie-young-avoids-no-confidence-vote-following-salmond-ban-row/

    “Under your proposals, would Scotland be allowed to undercut the UK on the basic rate (or the 10p rate which UK Labour is committed to introducing if elected in 2015)?”

    Stop bullying Labour in Scotland with questions…

  14. Alfresco Dent says:

    @ Iain More

    That is a very astute observation my friend. Unionists are weird (in a bad way, obviously. Sorry Rev).

  15. scottish_skier says:

    Aye. Labour are a lost cause.

    Ties in with EU Election polling.

    http://tinyurl.com/qywx7o2

    Latest Yougov EU voting intention:

    28% Lab
    26% UKIP
    24% Con
    11% Lib

    10/10 certain to vote:

    30% UKIP
    29% Lab
    20% Con
    10% Lin

    Con + UKIP = 50%

    UKIP commonly get a boost as polling day approaches too and that could well be bigger than usual due to blanket media coverage.

    No amount of positive love bomb injecting is gonna hide the future of the union in a couple of months time.

    North of the border of course all polls to date point to this new make up of Scots MEPs as a result of the the election:

    3 SNP (+1)
    2 Lab (nc)
    1 Con (nc)
    0 Lib (-1)

  16. Training Day says:

    Labour is a party which no longer knows why it exists. It is made to blow in the wind by stronger forces, whether that be the Tories in England or the SNP in Scotland, desperately seeking what it perceives to be a majority view to which it can align itself, purloin policies, and thereby hope to be elected.

    In that context, it is no surprise that weakness is its primary characteristic, manifest in the form of its leader.

    Milliband looks weak because he is weak.

  17. Muscleguy says:

    Surely if the kippers Elvis is serving in Arbroath are of the deep fried Soylent Green made from Kippers that would be a good thing?

  18. Is it any surprise that Miliband is struggling, politics (especially where real power is concerned) is cut-throat, but this is a man who very publically stabbed his own brother in the back.

    He was a minor functionary under Blair and Brown (Secretary Of State For Energy and Climate Change not currently considered the highest of state offices) and while busily courting what might be vaguely considered the remaining socialist vote within the Labour Party to get the leadership, has spent pretty much the entire time trying to out Tory the Tories.

    The sad and scary thing is there are many generally intelligent people (Severin Carrell and George Eaton spring to mind) who think he will lead us all into a glorious new almost socialist dawn.

    I don’t think he’ll win in 2015 and if he does, it’ll simply be Red Tory rather than the current Blue and Yellow ones.

    As The Animals sang, we gotta get outta this place, even if it’s the last thing we ever do.

  19. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Even if you believe Labour’s mish mash of feeble commitments to more devolution, there’s a higher chance of bumping into Elvis Presley serving kippers in Arbroath, than Labour delivering anything in their Devo Nano paper.

    Brilliant G.H.G. 🙂

    The thing is Desimond perhaps the BBC were actually telling the truth, for once, when they put this up. 🙂

    “In the second Euro debate, Clegg v The Raj”

  20. Alfresco Dent says:

    Isn’t there something fundamentally corrupt in someone or some party which is prepared to say & do anything in order to gain power & privilege?

  21. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @Alfresco Dent

    Bingo, I have, for a long time, thought it was a red and blue pill longtime plan. Same difference between the parties and with the same money men behind the two.

    Clegg has killed the LibDems and after this next Westminster GE will migrate to a position in Bruxelles

  22. Desimond says:

    If any Lib Dems fans are reading this, please be aware that Ed Miliband wrote the last Labour Manifesto and he now leads a dying party.

    Who wrote the Lib Dems one?…Mr Danny Alexander!
    You have been warned!

  23. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Clegg has killed the LibDems and after this next Westminster GE will migrate to a position in Bruxelles

    I seem to recall that Bruxelles was where Clegg came from in the first place wasn’t it BtP, in which case they are more than welcome to have him back! 🙂

  24. Les Wilson says:

    Personally I am quite happy with Milliband, he does a good job for us! We need to get in our heads that Labour ARE the most deceitful party,they are the ones who we, in Scotland need to watch.
    After all, the Tories are not going to win anything here, labour must be our main target. God knows how their voters view them now, but they deserve so much better.

    Not because they are loved here, but while they are pretty well incompetent, as well as following Tory policies like lapdogs, they are ever devious.
    Everyone is becoming more and more aware, that they are not what they portray to be.
    They no longer stand for the traditional values of their voters and they are increasingly aware of that.
    However, we need to watch for dirty tricks.

  25. Alfresco Dent says:

    @ Bugger (not often I get to write that, cheers).

    Yes. They might as well be on the same team, for all the difference it makes. Remember when Blair got in, the first commitment he made was to stick to the Tory budget. And it has been the same ever since. I was never a fan (away) but I genuinely think Thatcher was the last principled politician to enter Westminster.

    Wasn’t there supposed to be something happening today? Did I miss it?

  26. tinyzeitgeist says:

    Ken Loach has some interesting views on the labour party;
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/27/ken-loach-labour-failed-left-new-party

  27. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Wasn’t there supposed to be something happening today? Did I miss it?

    Aye there was A.D. but apparently the photographers are having too much fun they haven’t had time to report back yet. 🙂

  28. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Stu,

    Any chance you could post the artwork for the Metro ad so that we can have small A5 leaflets made up to distribute?

    Ta.

  29. Desimond says:

    Oh my, Nick Cleggs Scots Lib Dem Conference speech today is gonna be like Manna from Heaven to the Rev. Its awful. the banner behind him is enough…

    IN BRITAIN
    IN EUROPE
    IN WORK

    only missing

    IN SANE

  30. Jamie Arriere says:

    Interesting that ‘Smug’ is in each of the Top 5 qualities of every one of them, when they have so so so little to be smug about.

  31. Flower of Scotland says:

    Milliband is a disgrace to the Labour Party. First he does the dirty on his brother and then gets in with the help of the Unions. One of the first things he then does is changes the rules about the Unions’ vote ,maybe so that no one else can do what he did! I often watch late news on Sky and BBC. They just completely ignore Scotland ,Ireland and Wales . It’s London and the World news that interests them. Farage gets a lot of airtime , so I reckon they deserve him. We must get away from the London Bubble and the only way is to vote YES!

    O/t I haven’t heard from my MSPs -Jayne Baxter,Richard Simpson or Clare Baker. No acknowledgement NOT A DICKY BIRD!!

  32. deerokus says:

    Miliband is a downright creepy guy, the last party leader to be a bit unsettling like that was Michael Howard. I don’t think Miliband will do any better than he did.

  33. Proud Cybernat says:

    IN BRITAIN
    IN EUROPE
    IN WORK

    ….

    IN DEBT

  34. Gillie says:

    David Cameron as Prime Minister and Nigel Farage as a Deputy Prime Minister?????

    What odds will the bookies give for that. The Snob and the Knob.

  35. Arbroath 1320 says:

    IN BRITAIN
    IN EUROPE
    IN WORK

    ….

    IN DEEP DEEP S****

  36. Desimond says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    IN CAHOOTS

  37. Jim T says:

    Already posted this link on the New Readers thread:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26783713

    Seems that Osborne’s shrinking deficit isn’t.

  38. Training Day says:

    The Lib Dems have died..

    IN TESTATE

  39. Training Day says:

    The Lib Dems are deid.

    IN TESTATE

  40. Proud Cybernat says:

    IN BRITAIN
    IN EUROPE
    IN WORK

    ……

    IN DEPENDENCE

    Okay–I’m done with this now.

  41. a2 says:

    To be fair, if only 19% think farage is determined their opinions on everything else must be a bit suspect.

  42. Gillie says:

    IN TROUBLE

  43. Gillie says:

    IN CAPABLE

  44. Lanarkist says:

    IN COMPETENT.

  45. yerkitbreeks says:

    Stu, I love it when you so eloquently put the gut feelings of followers such as myself into print. Once again thanks for all the hard work.

  46. faolie says:

    That’s why none of our emails to our Labour MSPs & MPs are being answered properly (or at all). It’s because they know they haven’t a hope in 2015.

  47. Jim T says:

    @ProudCybernat 3.09pm

    I think that’s a great idea if Stu can provide the graphic. I’ve just taken delivery of 5 reams of A5, which is intended as part of my on-going donations for the local Yes campaign and their flyers, but adding the Metro advert to the mix seems eminently sensible.

  48. Onwards says:

    The last UK poll showed the Tories and Labour almost neck and neck.

    So when the UKIP vote goes to the Tories, the next election is going to be a landslide for them. And it will- on a huge tactical scale – to get the EU referendum.

    So if Scotland votes NO, we are faced with many more years of Tory rule, in a climate of harsh cutbacks and anti European hysteria.

    Some future.

    And if by some miracle, Labour did scrape over the line, perhaps due to a last minute Cameron and Boris scandal, then Scotland is left with the inspiring prospect of Devo-Nano, soon morphing into Devo-Bugger-All..

    No thanks.

  49. Desimond says:

    “Forgot hearts and minds. This referendum is about capturing imaginations” – Nick Clegg 28/03/14

    I wont post any Youtube links but ‘Imaginationland’ episodes in South Park springs to mind.

  50. chalks says:

    IN OUT

  51. Gray says:

    IN EUROPE

    IN CONTINENT

  52. Doug Daniel says:

    I saw Ed Miliband speaking to a reporter about Tony Benn after his funeral yesterday, and I couldn’t believe how vacuous he sounded. This was one of the legends of left-wing politics in Britain, and yet all he could do was give one of his generic sound-bites that could have been about pretty much any politician from either side of the spectrum.

    If you can’t even sound like a normal human being talking about one of the heroes of your party, then you’re a lost cause.

  53. Gillie says:

    IN DOLENT

  54. Gillie says:

    I hear that BT are holding a crisis meeting to discuss the polls.

    Will there be bad blood on the carpet?

  55. Monty Carlow says:

    It is right that you should point out the folly of a Scottish voter in the referendum relying on the prospect of a Labour victory in 2015 coming to rescue them. Firstly, it isn’t going to happen. Secondly, if it did, would we see any difference? Who got richer under the last batch of UK Labour governments?

    More important than these vain beliefs, does any such No voter really believe that we would never again have a Tory government foisted on us by middle England votes? Of course we would. It is just a matter of when, not if.

    A Yes vote is the only guarantee that we will never again have a government elected against Scotland’s wishes.

  56. Croompenstein says:

    Ed is as much use as a chocolate fireguard he ain’t gonna win GE, never mind appealing to Middle England I don’t think Ed appeals to Northern England so unless there is some seismic event to shift public opinion then he’s a lame duck.

    Modern politics, sadly, puts too much emphasis on charisma and Ed has as much charisma as a bulldog licking pish aff a nettle.

  57. jingly jangly says:

    Watched a bit of Politics today or whatever its called on the beeb at Lunchtime (NB Licence police, I was visiting a friends house) Anyway they stated that the UK was now a 4 party state, Lab,Lib,Con and Ukip.

    Looks like the kippers are hear to stay folks, we gotta get outa this place!

  58. Lou Nisbet says:

    Aaaaargh – I’m afraid it’s FIVE years of Tory rule not four. It keeps getting worser and worser(joke not bad English)

  59. Edward says:

    Just looking at Danny Alexander talking crap in front of a very sparse audience
    I’ve a feeling that this could be the very last ever Libdem conference (or is seminar) we will ever witness. The ever shrinking Libdems will not survive as they are with who they have

  60. Gillie says:

    Sorry guys and gals, but according to the most universally unpopular leader in the UK, Nick Clegg, you are all False Patriots.

    If you are not waving the Union Jack and being less than thankful for Westminster handouts then there must be something seriously wrong with you.

  61. liz says:

    O/T a bit – Just been LOLing at the Rev’s tweets about the LibDum conference – #untruetweetsfromthelibdenconference

  62. Proud Cybernat says:

    O/T–apologies.

    Received another email from SPT detailing their rules about political advertising (which they had already sent me in an earlier email). Here is Proud Cybernat’s second repsonse to them:

    To whom it may concern,

    I am aware of your guidelines. And in my previous post I made reference to ‘The Herald’ and ‘The Daily Record’ publications both of which contain much political content in their printed material and in their online publications. You do not ban adverts from these publications from your trains even although they publish political material and clearly have a political stance in this debate. THAT is the hypocrisy of SPT. You are happy enough to allow pro-union publications to be advertised on your trains but not those that are pro-independence.

    Your position is an affront to freedom of speech, is anti-democratic and you ought to be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. Scotland isn’t North Korea (yet).

    Sincerely,

  63. Dcanmore says:

    The best thing that Miliband could ever be is a conviction politician and then let the public decide on his ideas and principles. But he is not and never will be that because the New Labour machine dictates the ground that Labour lies on. So with that Miliband is another grey suit coming across like an off the peg Tony Blair facsimile (with a bit of copy fade). Tony Benn is fondly remembered because he was a conviction politician despite being a B-class minister never having quite the talent to reach one of the Offices of State. Still, Benn was 100 times the politician than invisible man Miliband ever will be. When all you can think of in a party leader is a few soundbites after four years of leading the opposition then that person is going into the next election with nothing more than a rosette. And voters of the UK are sick of empty suit politicians that say a lot and offer nothing.

    This is how Westminster is shaped today, the ongoing process of turning UK politics into an American look-a-like aided and abetted by a compliant MSM (especially the BBC). And with the politics comes the ideology, a corrosive horrible concoction of toxic ‘me-first’ policies designed to turn the voter from a citizen of the UK into a ‘concerned taxpayer’ of the Home Counties. The success of this over the past 35 years means that democracy in the UK is now controlled by small part of the population in SE England. It might even be called intelligent design but all the Westminster parties have created this dire situation we are in today.

    We have a chance, just once chance and we all know what it is … VOTE YES 2014 and rebuild a new Scotland for every man, woman and child living here, to the values and principles we share and we know that is right for all of us who can then stand up and call ourselves proud citizens of our country.

  64. Andy-B says:

    That a quite staggering result, with no clear front runner, in the popularity stakes, I think it just compounds, the state of English politics as a whole, and if you read deep enough into those findings,you’ll find another reason to vote YES to independence.

  65. schrodingers cat says:

    Robert Louis says:
    Miliband, regardless of his ambitions for ‘one nation’ Britain (a slogan he borrowed from an old Tory).

    check out disraeli’s original speech, no where does it mention britain…..only england
    ed…..more cheese gromit…miliband is only hedging his bets, after september, he wont have time to reprint all of his election leaflets, and this way……..he wont have to

  66. Breeks says:

    Milliband and J Lo just remind me of Ewan McGregor’s speech in Trainspotting. “Some hate the English. I don’t. They’re just wankers. We, on the other hand, are told what to do by wankers”. (The actual word was colonised, but same difference).
    That’s not defending Milliband. I think he is geeky and weak, and something is very wrong in the heart of Labour that such lightweight and uncomfortable people reach the upper eschellons of leadership. It actually takes J Lo’s abysmal leadership to make Milliband’s insipid leadership look half way good.

  67. Juteman says:

    OT.
    Any Unite members?
    I’ve just received my ballot forms for elections to the executive. The nominations for the Scotland ‘region’ are Davy Brockett, Eddie Cassidy and Dawn McAllister.
    I don’t know any of them, and don’t want to vote for a labour party clone. I don’t suppose any of them are indy friendly? Cassidy seems to have lost my vote by stating he is Convener of Glasgow City Council.

  68. Croompenstein says:

    After the Daily Heil front page I didn’t think I would be surprised again today but ‘Just’ Joan Burnie has retired from the Daily Ranker with an endorsement of Yes.. 🙂

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/joan-burnie-six-week-trial-lasted-3293270#.UzVfd8cPaHU.twitter

  69. SquareHaggis says:

    O/T Sorry

    19.00-21.00 Fringe Meeting

    McRobert Building, University of Aberdeen

    Undecided about the referendum?

    Hosted by YES Aberdeen

    Come along to find out more about the positive case for an independent Scotland.

    The event will be chaired by Alan Bissett of National Collective.

    The panel will include:
    Patrick Harvie MSP – Scottish Green Party
    Allan Grogan – Labour for Independence
    Natalie McGarry- Women for Independence

    Hope there’s no cite tags in this cut n paste text

  70. bookie from hell says:

    clegg

    “temptation to overstretch an analogy, so I’m not going to claim that the SNP and UKIP are the same.”

    bfh–just did

    “false patriotism – wherever it rears its head”

    bfn–this quote clegg is fine with nation states

    With the EU taking in ten more countries and adopting a new Constitution, organisations need more than ever intelligent professional help in engaging with the EU institutions.

    Today in Aberdeen

    “false patriotism – wherever it rears its head”

  71. Les Wilson says:

    For my sins I had the Liberal conference running in the background while doing other things. This is a party in denial. They think they are doing great, listening to Clegg and The ginger rat, you would have imagined that,THEY run the government!
    When the truth is that they have little they can do, even if they wanted to.

    Of course the usual anti SNP rhetoric was endemic. Not so nasty as labour was, but it was all there.

  72. Juteman says:

    @Croompenstein.
    That is actually a very good leaving speech from Joan.

  73. Juteman says:

    Another OT.
    BBC News 24 is reporting a rise in TB, and blaming it on folk catching it from their pet cats.
    It’s feckin poverty that is responsible you bastards!

  74. Papadox says:

    I don’t know or understand what Clegg means by false patriot. I am a SCOTTISH PATRIOT, NOTHING FALSE ABOUT THAT! Please don’t patronise me.

  75. Robert Kerr says:

    @Juteman

    Where did the cats get the TB?

    From the destitutes sleeping in the alleys?

  76. Thepnr says:

    Pretty obvious from these polling results that us, the electorate, the general public, currently really hate those that are supposedly elected to represent “our interests”.

    The truth is however very different, in the main it seems to me that for a great many of our elected officials self interest comes first. Look at the expenses scandal for instance. I do believe though that those MP’s who are backbenchers and not in either the cabinet or shadow cabinet mainly try to do their best and some of them will be very good dealing with local issues.

    It’s government policy though that I’m concerned with and none of these “very good” MP’s appear to have the backbone required to actually stand up for their constituents when it really matters. They are herded like sheep into the voting chambers. This is where it all falls down.

    Looking at Labour in particular, I shake my head in disbelief. The leadership is a disaster both in Scotland and the UK. The biggest arselickers are promoted into positions they are incapable of fulfilling.

    At least we in Scotland are lucky as we have an alternative. If you are a disillusioned Labour supporter here at least we have the option of voting SNP whose policies are more akin to those of Labour in the 70’s that current Labour who’s policies are more akin to Thatcher in the 70’s.

    However if you are a traditional Labour supporter in the rest of the UK, what mainstream parties can you choose from. Tories, No chance. Lib Dems, No chance. UKIP well OK then.

    There will be as many traditional Labour supporters voting for UKIP in the Euro elections as there are Tory simply because there is no credible alternative.

  77. gfaetheblock says:

    Anyone who votes on the referendum based on who may or may not be the next UK government is kind of missing the difference between election a government and constitutional change.

  78. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Sorry this is O/T but I’ve just found this link via the *ahem* Scottish Daily Mail site. It is an article, don’t know how close it is to the paper version, about the crisis within Better Together. 😛

    http://tinyurl.com/o8mbdrj

  79. Croompenstein says:

    @Arbroath 1320 – After an upturn in finances, board members will today be asked to spend a six-figure sum flooding city centres with adverts carrying a positive, ‘aspirational’ message about the benefits of the Union

    I don’t remember seeing their crowdfund…

  80. Croompenstein says:

    Nick Clegg says – we must also set out the opportunities of voting to stay

    Here they are…

    1..

  81. Marcia says:

    Juteman

    A Cat-asrophe.

  82. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Croompenstein says:

    @Arbroath 1320 – After an upturn in finances, board members will today be asked to spend a six-figure sum flooding city centres with adverts carrying a positive, ‘aspirational’ message about the benefits of the Union

    I don’t remember seeing their crowdfund…

    Did you miss their crowdfund appeal Croompenstein oh that’s a shame cause let me tell you it ran at the same time as someone called Rev Stu Campbell, whoever he is. Apparently, whilst the good Rev struggled to raise a miserly £100,000 the Better Together crowdfund flew out of the door, quite literally, by raising…*ahem* nothing, nil, zilch, nought, zero. It was taken down within 12 hours of being put up. 🙂

  83. Derek says:

    It’s interesting that a few folk described Nick Clegg as “likeable”; the only answer which, I think, addresses the person rather than their policies or manner.

  84. Geoff Huijer says:

    I still get annoyed about the fact Alex Salmond
    is never mentioned in UK terms.

    Ok, the SNP don’t stand in England but for me they
    should still be treated with the same respect as a national party.

    UKIP are almost exclusively an English party so
    how come Farage gets all this ‘respect’.

    All it says to me is that the UK media (etc)
    consider the SNP just some wee regional party.

    No doubt this way of viewing them is one of the
    many reasons they eventually came to power.

  85. Steph says:

    The worst part is, even if by some absolute miracle Labour won the election, it would only be marginally better than the Tories. All the No voters would soon realise this and I think a lot of them would regret voting no.

    Also, I find it really irritating that UKIP who have no MPs get far more media attention than the Green Party who at least have one. Labour, Lib Dems, Tories and UKIP are all similar – you can see that on the political compass website if you don’t already know. The Greens offer an alternative for people in England and yet the media ignores them. No wonder voter turnout is declining – people simply aren’t being shown what credible alternatives there are.

  86. msean says:

    They don’t fear the Greens etc because they don’t see themselves in them. However,other parties do see UKIP , and see themselves in competition with it for the same tired old ground.

  87. morgan mc says:

    Ukip are getting coverage because Ofcom have designated them a major party in the Euro eltoo.Hardlyns.Given that in 2009 they came second in that poll. Returning the second highest count of MEP’s in the UK.

    If Clegg wants to debate Farage and lose thats up to him. Labour are haemorrhaging councillors to ukip along with the libs and torys. 4 labour councilors in Dagenham defected to Ukip the other week.

    Given that 20% of libs support Farage view on rhe EU and just under 50% of labour voters too.Hardly surprising about the above figures.

  88. Bigbricks says:

    I was at the Aberdeen YES meeting this evening (part of the Politics Festival) – Natalie McGarry was unable to attend (in Brussels) but another Women for Indy speaker Laura Mitchell stood in at the last minute. An excellent meeting with an attendance of >250 I would say (nae bad for a Friday night). All of the speakers were very good, but Patrick Harvie can only be described as a gifted orator. Question and answer session afterwards was also very lively. Get these people to talk to your local meetings – they are analytical, informative, and capable of persuading undecided voters. They are also doing what BT can’t do, taking part in grassroots meetings, enthusing and encouraging people to vote (whatever that vote might be) and speaking to those whose opinions range across the spectrum. If BT organised a similar meeting, with an unselected audience (which of course they won’t do) the speakers arguments would be revealed for the illogical nonsense they are. There was also discussion of RIC canvassing and encouraging people to register and vote. A high turnout in September will mean that many people who don’t normally vote (and frequently have never voted) are doing so, and most of them are going to vote YES. – this fact in itself is a condemnation of UK politics. I would imagine BT are praying for a low turnout. Feeling optimistic and energised – this is as good as life gets (until the morning of the 19th September anyway) Tick tock BT, tick tock.



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