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The twisted firestarters

Posted on May 04, 2018 by

It’s not easy to type with your jaw on the floor, readers.

But in the six and a half years we’ve been watching the Scottish media here on Wings, this surely has to be an all-time low.

It’s exactly what it appears to be – the Scottish Sun have deliberately set fire to a baby box to simulate incinerating a newborn infant in the name of some cheap clickbait. (You’ll find no link to it in this article.) And they’ve had to try pretty hard.

The paper called on the expert services of “Ryan, a fire safety consultant with 22 years experience”, who after more than two decades working with fire was ASTONISHED to discover that cardboard burns if you hold a naked flame to it for long enough.

“I’m shocked. I didn’t think there was any way it would go up like that. That flame was only on it for 15 seconds or so.”

He added:

“It’s much worse than alternatives like a solid crib or a Moses basket”

You know, a Moses basket – those famously fireproof baby beds, as recommended by Fire Safety Ryan, that are MADE OUT OF STRAW. Nature’s asbestos.

Despite having raised the box up on some wooden staves in an outdoor yard to ensure maximum circulation of air and help the fire take hold – you know, like you do with your baby – it still took that much direct exposure to the flame to get the box to smoulder and more than four minutes under these optimum fire conditions before any visible flames began to appear.

Remarkably, Ryan felt that the image above depicted an inferno already hopelessly out of control, which makes us glad he’s not a fireman:

“After three minutes water would not put that out. It would be impossible for someone at home to tackle it.”

And he went on to be specific about some of the problems:

“The worried fire expert pointed out several safety flaws with the box. He said: ‘There are holes underneath introducing oxygen to the fire. If it was a solid unit you would not have that.'”

Which would be fine, except that the instructions ACTUALLY PRINTED DIRECTLY ONTO THE BOX (and supplied separately as a leaflet too) specifically tell you to put it inside the solid lid, blocking those holes off:

And they also tell you NOT to put it on a raised surface, like some wooden kindling:

And they also tell you NOT to smoke near the box, or leave it unattended for several minutes while some cretin holds a naked flame to it:

Or to leave it anywhere near a naked flame or strong heat source:

In other words, our elite fire professional has only succeeded in torching the box by deliberately disregarding just about every single safety instruction that comes with it. It’s an unfathomable mystery why his fire-safety company was dissolved in 2014 after just a single year in business.

As were two other fire-safety companies he set up:

Just like the mystery of why, if cardboard baby boxes are a deadly fire hazard, they’re actually given out in other countries by the fire brigade.

Curiously, the Sun declined to do a control test with some other types of baby beds or bedding for comparison purposes. To be honest, we’re not entirely confident that they didn’t fill the box with petrol-soaked rags (the lid’s closed so you can’t tell – you know, like you’d do if your baby was in there and you were trying to suffocate it to save it from dying horribly in a fire), and we’re rather disappointed that they didn’t put a doll inside so they could horrify readers with its melted “corpse”.

We presume that’ll be tomorrow, unless they’ve got a double page spread headlined


Ryan The Fire Genius did have some top general advice, though:

“If someone is sitting smoking in the house, which they shouldn’t be doing anyway, and a cigarette drops or they fall asleep that’s enough to put the whole house up.”

Unless there are a lot more houses in Scotland made entirely of cardboard than we thought, that would seem to suggest the baby box is the least of anyone’s worries.

But just to be sure, readers – do NOT keep your baby outside, raised up on a wooden platform above a naked flame with nobody watching it except for a sleepy smoker with no access to water.

We realise, of course, that most of you didn’t actually need to be told that, but then you probably don’t read The Sun.

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    1. 04 05 18 14:56

      The twisted firestarters | speymouth

    608 to “The twisted firestarters”

    1. George johntone says:

      Keith Lard strikes again!

    2. NH says:

      Interesting that Ryan is the expert is so good at his job he has held and closed 4 Directorships in the last 7 years. Would appear his businesses are more volatile than a baby box.

    3. Macandroid says:

      Where did they obtain the baby box from? Did someone obtain it under false pretenses?

      I hope the Sun are making an equivalent donation to a children’s charity at the very least.

      Also – does Ryan realise that the clothes he’s wearing are inflammable and if he sat himself on top of same fire he would not last 4 seconds, never mind 4 minutes – prat!

    4. Bill Glen says:

      It Would appear that the Bats Have Escaped the Belfry, And are loose in the Sun’s House of Horrors

    5. Donald MacKenzie says:

      What an amazingly irresponsible story.

      Many people who welcome the box will be put off by this nonsense.

    6. Jimbo says:

      I’ll bet that in the 75 years Finland has been handing out baby boxes no fuckwit from a Finnish newspaper ever thought to set a baby box alight to scare the shit out of parents for narrow political reasons.

    7. Highland Wifie says:

      Words fail me yet again.
      How much longer do we have to put up this drivel that passes for journalism?
      Where do they find these numpties that they call experts? Do they have a secret list of phone numbers, one from every profession they can think of – fire expert, cot death expert, bridge expert. Next will be a baby clothing expert to show us how quickly babies grow out of the clothes supplied in the baby box.
      I would put my granddaughter to sleep in a baby box very happily. This is just getting desperate.

    8. bobajock says:

      Ooooooh – burrrrrnn.

    9. Doug Bryce says:

      Baby boxes, A9 Speed Cameras, Lower Drink Drive Limit, Minimum Alcohol Pricing…..

      All of them designed to save lives.
      Some people are so blinded by their hatred of self determination (independence) that they will attack every SNP policy without thought.

    10. Bobp says:

      Ah the sun. The gutter rag that liverpudlians wont buy. Every time I see a “Scot” with a copy of this ar**wipe , it tells me all I need to know about them and their level of IQ.

    11. Helena Brown says:

      May I suggest that those put off by this trash are so inclined any way. I think that those of an age to be having babies are already aware of the machinations of our media. Then of course you have the Tories, the least said about them the better.

    12. Proud Cybernat says:

      Boycott that effing piece of trash. They have to be made to realise that when they pull desperate stunts like this to frighten new mothers that there will be a price to pay.

    13. Calum McKay says:

      papers like the sun, mail, express, telegraph, times and record, prey upon peoples fears and prejudice.

      We can expect this to continue.

      Alex Ferguson and Liverpool boycotted the bbc and sun respectively, the reputation of both were enhanced, time the Scottish Government took the papers and bbc to task!

      Here’s hoping that this is high on Keith Brown’s list of priorites when he becomes deputy leader.

    14. jimnarlene says:

      Some fire doors only give you 10mins, to get out of a building.
      Ffs, get some perspective, unionist eejits.

    15. blackhack says:

      Please be careful in your kitchens…..Large knives are in there and if you jab them at people then you could injure or even kill them….

    16. Proud Cybernat says:

      Cardboard burns. Who the F#&@ knew?

    17. HandandShrimp says:

      It is like something from Drop the Dead Donkey. This is exactly what Damien would have done.

      The Sun is a bit of a joke though. It used to be said that they had to pay their journalists more to compensate for the complete lack of professional respect they enjoyed amongst their peers. Now that no newspapers employ serious journalists I guess they probably don’t even have that to fall back on.

    18. Fireproofjim says:

      This is a perversion of journalism. What a disgusting person. Deliberately scaring parents, when not a single instance of a baby being harmed by the box has ever come to light in 69 years in Finland.
      Knuckle dragging scum. A disgrace to the human race..

    19. Doug McGregor says:

      What are we being distracted from?

    20. wull2 says:

      What is the SPF of the box, does it protect you from the sun ?

    21. Doug_Bryce says:

      From comments on original article….

      In case anyone thinks I am joking here is his website sommervillefiresafety dot com and his company number: Company No: SC405238 . His linked in is just ryan sommerville. He did not even bother to capitalise his name fgs. i know the mainstream media love their SNP bad stories but this is an utter nonsense.

      In case anyone thinks I am joking, here is his website sommervillefiresafety dot com and his company number: SC405238. His linked in is just ryan sommerville. He did not even bother to capitalise his name fgs. I know the mainstream media love their SNP bad stories but this is an utter nonsense.

      In case anyone thinks I am joking, here is his website sommervillefiresafety dot com and his company number: SC405238. His linked in is just ryan sommerville. He did not even bother to capitalise his name fgs. I know the mainstream media love their SNP bad stories but this is an utter nonsense.

    22. There is a reason the idiot couldn’t put it out, he doesn’t know how to use the extinguisher.Should have used his finger to create a spray to knock it down first then used the water jet to put it out. I am no expert just 22 years in the Fire service.Pretty sure he’ll have a blister having held the lighter to the box for 15 seconds as well.

    23. Davosa says:

      Ryan must have the IQ of Sun readers to come away with this utter shite. Paul Thornton (?) needs to get some serious medical help if he thinks this is a story – his editor (if such a thing exists at Sun Towers) likewise.

    24. Gary says:

      Apparently petrol is flammable too! Who knew! We will DEFINTELY need the ‘broad shoulders’ (remember that one?) of the United Kingdom to help us control the ‘flammable death monster’ of the North Sea Oil which, I note, the SNP has done absolutely NOTHING to save us from!!!!

      Hopefully they will find kindness in their hearts and remove all of the oil, at OUR expense of course, and maybe sell it and keep all the money for their troubles…

    25. One_Scot says:

      And you know what the really depressing thing about this is, it will never end unless we end it. #ScotRef

    26. Dr Jim says:

      I think Ryan is a bit of a sperm donor, Oooh! that might make sense

    27. louis.b.argyll says:

      I’m afraid they’ve sunk too low this time.

      What next, burning crosses to show that wood is more dangerous than racism?

      Absolutely shocking scaremongering around a positive health policy.

      The Sun newspaper is also highly flammable, yet it can often be seen just lying around unsold, in flammable bundles, ready to be returned to supplier.

      Sickening and contrived, colluding with the UK’s (exclusively) Tory owned mainstream media.

      This smear-campaign is, ironically, covering up NHS England’s actual smear-testing disaster.

    28. Conan the Librarian says:

      @ HandandShrimp

      Damien would have artfully placed a charred wee bootee in the ashes…

    29. louis.b.argyll says:

      I don’t often/ever demand that Scotgov rise to the gutter bait BUT..

      This must be called out ‘officially’ as not doing so allows opposition to change public perception to the detriment of Scottish society at large.

      They are a private business and have no democratic protection, unlike opposition party’s unhelpful statements.

      Can the manufacturer sue the Sun?

    30. harry mcaye says:

      The Sun – produced by scum, bought by idiots.

    31. Macart says:

      OFFS! You expect the Sun to be a pretty crappy rag, but they truly are in full on barrel scraping mode with that nonsense. Are they in some kind of competition with the other Yoon rags to see who can come up with the most idiotic, reckless and harmful drivel of a week?

    32. HUGH KIRK says:

      I’m not a “fire expert” but I would imagine if one presented a lighted match to a copy of “The Sun”…eventually ….it would more than likely catch a fire……but like I said, I’m no expert.

    33. Marcia says:

      I have scaffolding under jaw to keep it up.

    34. Robert Peffers says:

      This article brings up another big fire hazard. Did you know that if you draw a march across a rough surface it ignites?

      Now that’s just got to be a fire hazard. We should have stuck to rubbing two scouts together – much, much safer. Well safer excepting for the two scouts.

    35. starlaw says:

      Find it hard to remark on this piece of loonacy. Imagine taking your baby in its box and sitting it on top of the gas ring of a cooker. That is what this test simulates.
      Id be very surprised if any other MSM publication would expose itself to the ridicule the Sun is now getting with this sick joke.

    36. Luigi says:

      What’s all the fuss. The message is clear:

      Don’t let your baby play with matches or smoke in the box. 🙂

    37. Doug Bryce says:

      > I would imagine if one presented a lighted match to a copy of “The Sun”

      Shit doesn’t burn 😉

    38. Stuart says:

      I have a similar issue with my car. When I’m driving about, my car has a nasty habit of burning petrol and moving the car forward????. How do I rectify this major problem ??

    39. Col says:

      And how fast does a sun rag go up in flames? Best not buy them for the hoose!

    40. Heartsupwards says:

      We’ve just had a Glasgow wide notification from our employers to “avoid the demonstration as a general precaution”, relating to tomorrows Scottish pro-independence rally in Glasgow.

    41. Vestas says:

      Sun readers, Daily Mail readers, one & the same. Racists & thick as pigshit scum. One and all. No excuses.

    42. Greannach says:

      Ryan went on to reveal:
      “After wrapping my infant in swaddling clothes and installing him in his Natbox, I placed it and him in front of my RAV 4X4 and drove over it three or four times. To my surprise the wee mite had the life squashed of him. Pior Ryan Jr, we’ll miss him. Fortunately I still had the receipt for his (now badly stained) outfit and recouped my outlay.”

    43. louis.b.argyll says:

      Westminster stokes the flames of division, allowing it’s hegemony to destroy public sentiment and compassion.

      Babys, mothers,immigrants, Scots, Irish, the poor, the sick, the young, all fair game.

      Yes, the danger comes from the hot air of daily hate that the UK state and it’s media partners spew into the world.

      They disgust me, my resolve now crystallising into action.

    44. Andy-B says:

      It’s no wonder then, why nobody in Liverpool buys this mind numbing shit rag of a newspaper. I urge anyone who buys it to stop immediately and do their brain cells a favour.

    45. Heartsupwards says:

      Warning us of the possibility of violence between rival activists or between pro-independence supporters an police.

    46. Luigi says:

      Another SNP BAD story goes up in smoke.

    47. Stravaiger says:

      It’s so risible that it’s almost tempting to believe that they are secretly nationalists forced to pump out unionist stories but making them so outlandish that nobody believes them.

      Anyway, Stu’s job is getting easier every fay. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.

    48. Andy Anderson says:

      Have these idiots no shame!! The are writing drivel and they know it. I hope to see a day in the future when we are independent and that is a crime to write crap. No one takes this stuff seriously, surely!!

    49. Me Bungo Pony says:

      And yet this SNP Govt still allows the sale of Newspapers (the clue is in the name) like the Sun to parents who will subsequently leave them lying willy-nilly around their house putting their unsuspecting children at an unacceptable risk of incineration. When-oh-when will this SNP madness end?

      I’m sure that nice Ruth Davidson will put them right with a true blue, Tory, unionist policy of making everything out of that stalwart Bakelite material so beloved of households up and down the land in the good old 1950s when Britain was great, Mr Churchill was on the throne and a chap knew where he stood. I look forward to my surely imminent union flag sitting stiffly atop my flagpole in all its Bakelite, non-flammable glory.

    50. Stravaiger says:


      Able to tell us who?

    51. Clootie says:

      …that is it!

      No more coal, wood, gas for heating in my house. If I read newspapers I would cancel the order.
      The car is going up for sale no petrol under my arse.

      Why did no one tell me before about all these hazards?

      …now I will be able to relax on my iron chair with a glass of safe water…no flammable alcohol near me.

    52. louis.b.argyll says:

      How many boxes given away by Finland over the many years? Anyone know?

      If it’s more than 20’000 then that counts as a ‘product trial’ so divide by the number of deaths attributed to the box and create a risk assessment based on normal usage.
      Did the Sun guy get permission to burn plastic from his local authority?

    53. Big Jock says:

      “Let me control the media and I will turn any nation into a herd of pigs”. Joseph Goebbels

    54. HandandShrimp says:


      You are right, Damien was just that wee bit smarter/more twisted than the average Sun churnalist.

    55. Oor Linda says:

      This is shocking! Whoever thought to do this has to be unhinged and needs investigating. Then again it’s the Sun just reverting to type. I think there needs to be apologies from this rag and calls f for Tory Miles Briggs to resign.

    56. Heartsupwards says:

      Stravaiger, Jacobs.

    57. Capella says:

      These people are not well. Have they been consumed by a vile hatred, so overwheling that they have lost all perspective?
      Hieronomymus Bosch drew their portrait.

    58. Scottish Steve says:

      Lol, check out the Sun, trying to be serious journalists. Even bringing in an “expert” to support their story. The Scottish media really is desperate for an SNP bad whinge.

    59. Dorothy Devine says:

      Engineers or debt collectors?

      And how would they know that several thousand folk are going to be endangered by thugs?

      Never had trouble on any of the marches and the police have been delighted to walk with us and blether.

    60. Kevvo says:

      I bet his business was run from same back garden, nae wonder it went under so quick.

    61. Dan Huil says:

      Great stuff by the Rev.

      Beware! Keep your bairn out of the sun!

    62. Dorothy Devine says:

      And as a P.S why did you post the information twice ?

      Did nobody bite quick enough for your taste Heartsupwards?

      We’ve had rather a lot of misinformation so it is worth checking.

    63. Hippo says:

      This fire safety guy…was his name Keith Lard by any chance ?

    64. Weechid says:

      Is it just me or is anyone else utterly and completely f*****g sick to death of being told how shite everything is in Scotland. We can do f**k all right. I’ve had with these b******s. I feel like going out and setting a match to a bundle of Sun newspapers and seeing how long they will last.

    65. Glamaig says:

      I wonder where that ‘fire expert’ lives? Is it legal for him to burn stuff in his garden?

    66. James Barr Gardner says:

      Ryan the ARSEsonist

    67. Fred says:

      This clown Somerville lists his nationality as British, lives in Scotland! There’s a clue!

    68. Legerwood says:

      In the interests of safety and for completeness did they also set fire to the baby boxes issued by at least 3 BHS trusts in England since 2016 AND the one you can buy for £450.

      If not, why not?

    69. HandandShrimp says:

      Don’t do Twitter but someone should totally do a video of the time it takes a Sun newspaper to go up in flames. Unlike baby boxes which as far as I am aware do not have a high fatality count lots of house fires have been started by people dozing off and dropping newspapers onto heat sources.

      Be safe…do not take newspapers into your house!

    70. Big Jock says:

      We all know what’s going on. It’s the media’s death throws, which reflects the UK’s terminal illness. They are dying on a daily basis. Instead of adapting to a changing world. They are imploding like the far right in the Tory party.

      Instead of dying with dignity they want to take as many other people down with them as they can. It’s like Terminator ” They cannot and will not stop” until everything is dead!

    71. Liz g says:

      Well Ikea have selling cardboard storage boxes for year’s.
      They are for every room in the house,promoted as an essential household item.
      For home’s with or without weans/smokers or a water supply.
      What dangers have we been subjected to?
      This is UK wide as well
      And the Sun has said not a word about it!
      Can’t think for the life of me what the difference is!

      Now it might just be me,but was it no the lighter that caused that fire no the box?
      Mibbi it’s lighters that shouldn’t be around babies…or boxes or houses or Sun journalists!

    72. Tattie-Boggle says:

      Thank god my new born quit smoking

    73. HandandShrimp says:

      Thank god my new born quit smoking


    74. jfngw says:

      Drop the dead Sun – journalism for the brain dead.

      I put my fish supper inside a copy of the Sun, this immediately doubled the potential IQ of the material in my hand.

      I don’t know what would be more embarrassing, someone finding a porn site cookie on my PC or a Sun one.

    75. Col says:

      Let’s all burn a copy, video and share it

    76. Andrew Davies says:

      Anything to discredit a great SNP policy. Now if the Tories had this idea, it would be shouted from the rooftops, The Media in Scotland has had a clear message from Westminster, Discredit the Snp at any opportunity you get. Only total yoons will believe the lies

    77. Hamish100 says:

      Nae harm to ryan the fire consultant? is he a full time qualified fire engineer or just a twat. Does he not realise that even Rabbie knew that even rocks melt with the sun. Is the sun papet flammable? Hazards all round.

    78. Craig P says:

      Boxes don’t kill babies, Sun journalists do.

    79. dave Stewart says:

      There are thousands of Vauxhall Zafira cars out in the country that are known to burst into flames at any time.
      They seat 7 people at a time.
      Will the sun lead off the recall of all these cars and get compensation for the owners.
      Didn’t think so,built in englandland.

    80. Archbishop of Dork says:

      The irony is The Sun is only good as kindling.

    81. Tattie-Boggle says:

      if only the SNP had used Finnish cardboard instead of that British crap

    82. jfngw says:

      Tomorrow the Sun to test timber frame houses, the Fukujima of house construction. Just imagine the catastrophe if any parent in a timber frame house also received a baby box, it would make Towering Inferno disaster movie look like a minor blaze.

    83. Auld Rock says:

      Dr. Jim, sperm donor!!! God help the poor brat.

    84. Roughian says:

      The test was carried out in a controlled environment – my Grannies back yard. My Granny could control an army at 40 paces.
      We made sure there was a steady southerly breeze of 20mph and raised the box 100mm on a double layer of 50mm battens to ensure good air circulation. Unlike most modern houses which are pretty draft proof.
      We could have used “Radiation Characteristics of Corrugated Cardboard Flames” but Grannies yard was more easier likes.

    85. Dr Jim says:

      As it happens I just had an Amazon delivery in an ordinary cardboard box, not a fireproofed or special box just a common ordinary cardboard delivery box 10″x 24″ height 12″

      I attempted to set fire to my delivery box with a lighter similar to sperm boy in the Sun Newspaper and guess what the lighter got so hot I kept burning my fingers but the box refused to light before my fingers were melting

      So I’m going to stick my neck out here and say right handed boy and the Sun newspaper could only have done this by nefarious means, so let’s get a box Stuart and give it a proper scrutinised fire brigade observed go

    86. Dr Jim says:

      @Auld Rock

      I never said there were any recipients involved in his efforts
      But then again we do have an expectant opposition leader

      It’s the evil cyberthingy in me, I’m a slave to evil

    87. Dan Huil says:

      Prince Willy and Kate were given a baby box from Finland’s government.

      From The National:

      “The move was described at the time as a “gift” from the Finnish government to William and Kate, but must now be viewed as a Trojan horse.

      In remarks which are horrifying in hindsight, a statement released by a Kensington Palace spokesman said: “We were delighted to receive the very kind gift of the maternity package from the Finnish government. It was a very thoughtful gesture and we’re very grateful for it.

      “I’m sure the Duke and Duchess will be very interested to see the contents.”

      The box was provided by social security service Kela – when the initiative began in Finland, Kela were contacted by people from all over the world asking to buy one of the baby boxes, obviously unaware of the safety flaw.

      After presenting the royals with the gift, spokeswoman Heidi Liesivesi said: “Kela wanted to congratulate the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.

      “The maternity package gained such a positive response from all around the world. The timing was perfect that the royal couple are having a baby.”

      The Tories have yet to comment.”

    88. Archbishop of Dork says:


      *Created fear of Jews, Poles, Gypsies.

      *Unprecedented power through Enabling Bill.

      *Blamed Reichstag combustion on opposition.


      *Created fear of Jamaicans, Poles, Gypsies.

      *Unprecedented power through EU Withdrawal Bill.

      *Blamed baby box combustibility on opposition.

    89. Richard Hunter says:

      You know what also burns quite well? Newspapers.

    90. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      If you hold a flame up to a copy of The Sun it ignites almost instantaneously, never mind 15 seconds. (Some may observe that helping light a fire is possibly its only useful function.)

      So by its own argument the rag should be banned immediately. “Unsafe at any speed”, as the old phrase goes. I look forward to its coming self-denial with eager anticipation.

    91. ronnie anderson says:

      Rev might be worth while passing this piece on the Sun’s story to the manufacturer of the Baby Boxes who might sue them .

    92. HandandShrimp says:

      On the plus side, the Sun is getting absolutely roasted from all angles. This was not a good move on their part.

      Just as Damien used to get his arse kicked regularly at Globelink I think the arse booting boot will be getting looked out of Murdoch cupboard.

    93. Tinto Chiel says:

      Ruth Davidson has just responded to this searing expose:

    94. Hamish100 says:

      Did his fence burn down? Looks he like he sent a email to get some cash. Was this at his house? Whers the wean? Whets the polis?

    95. Hamish100 says:

      Did twat ex fire arse comply with all BSI standards and elf and safety as he was at work. Call the hse.

    96. Cubby says:

      The Nazis burnt books.

      The British Nationalists burn baby boxes.

    97. Jonah White says:

      It does strike me that this is so irresponsible and contrary to good health policy that it’s worth using it as a basis to start a campaign to pressurise supermarket and convenience store chains to not stock the Sun in Scotland, irrespective of any stance on independence/SNP. Any takers?

    98. haudonthenoo says:

      Actually that article is worse than vile, depraved and disgusting. The “author” and those involved need locked up.

      It is sick. How do these knuts sleep at night ?

    99. Cairnallochy says:

      In the light of the fact that someone has just been on trial for an arson attack which killed a number of children, this Sun report is even more crass than Ross T sitting on Saddam’s throne. This report is quite obscene.

      I have met a couple of people from the sports side of he Sun and was slightly amused at the alacrity with which they dissociated themselves from it’s general news coverage.

    100. ronnie anderson says:

      A tale about Baby Boxes and folk in Glass Houses, Oh and who did it first in the UK!

      My old (late) Mum, used to say “Marry in haste, repent at leisure” it appears the same could be said of smears, a thought Miles Briggs MSP might well keep in mind before the same hair triggered mind slings a smear, without doing the slightest research first. Much could be said of his quasi boss Ruth Davidson, of whom as a former journalist, I had the silly expectation she’d have done her research; but given the Guardians’ Severin Carrell made much the same limited inquiry on the topic of baby boxes, maybe my expectation wasn’t so silly after all.

      Let’s establish one fact straight away. Scotland was the first country in the UK to distribute baby boxes nationwide, however, England began distribution a year earlier, on a postcode Lottery basis. So, whilst our scheme is a whole lot more generous, it was not the first in the UK.

      I obviously need to cite my claims, so here you go

      Queen Charlotte’s hospital in London (MP Andrew Slaughter Lab) was among the first to launch baby boxes,
      Consultant obstetrician Dr Karen Joash said as she launched the trial: “These boxes and the education resources that sit alongside them have been proven to help reduce the infant mortality rate in Finland and we hope that these results could be replicated in the UK.”

      The others are listed with their MP below.

      Colchester Hospital University Foundation Trust (MP Will Quince Con)
      “The baby box tradition originates in Finland and has been credited with reducing the infant mortality rate from 65 deaths per 1,000 births in 1938 to 2.26 per 1,000 in 2015.”

      Birmingham and Solihull United Maternity and Newborn Partnership, who state on their site (MP Julian Knight Tory)
      “The Baby Box tradition, which originates from Finland, has been credited with reducing the infant mortality rate in the country from 65 infant deaths per 1,000 births in 1938 to 2.26 per 1,000 births in 2015.”

      North Middlesex Hospital (MP Kate Osamor Lab)
      “A Baby Box is a specially designed, durable cardboard box, complete with mattress and waterproof cover, which can be used as an alternative to a crib or Moses Basket for your baby’s first six months of life.”

      Royal Albert Edward Infirmary Wrightington Wigan and Leigh NHS Foundation Trust (MP Lucy Nanda Lab)
      “Pauline Law, Director of Nursing said of the initiative, “We know just how important baby’s health and wellbeing is to parents. The Baby Box is a wonderfully simple alternative to a Moses basket, which ensures baby sleeps safely for their first 6 months. The use of the boxes has been proven to help reduce the risk of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, and we are hoping that we can replicate these results within the Wigan borough.”

      Royal Berkshire NHS Foundation Trust (MP Matt Rodda Lab)
      “Baby Boxes, have been used successfully in Finland for many years, and have drastically reduced instances of sudden infant death syndrome, with the country achieving one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world. Made from a very thick cardboard, the boxes come with a firm foam mattress, waterproof mattress cover and a cotton sheet, and are traditionally used as a baby’s bed for up to the first eight months of their life. Replacing the need for a traditional Moses basket or cot, it is thought the small size of the Baby Box prevents babies from rolling onto their tummies, which experts think can contribute to sudden infant death syndrome.”

      A quick google search shows there are at least eight English NHS hospitals/Trusts issuing the baby boxes free of charge, all citing similar rationales, not least of which being the anecdotal evidence from Finland.

      Interestingly Miles Briggs and the host of other unionist cohorts in the blind scramble to slate Scotland’s introduction of baby boxes, forgot the fundamental rule of criticism ‘First Know Your Facts’, as it is all they’ve done is tacitly through sheer ignorance, criticised 4 English Labour MP’s and two Tories. But hey, but that’s just collateral damage huh?

      Piers doughty Brown .

      Mibee’s the Wings ferrets could shed some light on this post , chist for accuracy you’s unnerstawn , be careful out there an don’t get your fingers burnt friction burns are ah baasss Savlon at oan standby chist gies ah shout .

    101. Cairnallochy says:

      Humble apologies for stray apostrophe.

    102. Cairnallochy says:

      Humble apologies for intruding apostrophe – spotted the nefarious workings of autocorrect as I pressed submit.

    103. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Actually, no further thought, this kind of absurdity is just great for indy. The wilder the expostulation the better. Whether intentional or not, get everyone laughing at the arrant idiocy.

      The intention may well be to bully folk into accepting the Brexit coup that’s being attempted “in the name of the people”. (Previous notorious rightists were very big on that kind of pseudo-populist trick.)

      OTOH, maybe there are indy supporters in the media who are intent on undermining the whole thing by ridicule. So ultra-loyal they can’t be faulted by their vile paymasters except for an excess of apparent zeal.

    104. Robert Louis says:

      Honestly, the sooner every single so-called ‘scottish’ ‘journalist’ leaves Scotland, the better for all of Scotland.

      Day after day of this unremitting sh*te. Why are we being treated to this utter bull? Because baby boxes are a good idea, but they were introduced in Scotland by an SNP Government, so therefore are baaaad.

      Pathetic individuals writing this utter crud in the so-called ‘scottish’ media. Great job guys, you are clearly the best ‘journalists’ in the world, writing utter p*sh day after day, just because you and your owners don’t like Scottish independence. Totally pathetic.

    105. Brian McHugh says:

      …but they are doing our work for us Robert. ?

    106. Brian McHugh says:

      That ‘knowing wink’emoticon thing didn’t work. 🙂

    107. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      ronnie anderson @ 17:41,

      Thanks Ronnie for that brilliant quote, which just to give credit where it’s due (and incidentally nothing to do with me), is a piece to be found at:

      Facts first. Braw chiels.

      On the dark side, that servile toad Sevvy ought to be made to eat the paper that all his increasingly-rabid fake news is printed on.

    108. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Next week a Sun exclusive!

      The SNP have been giving the public unsafe combustibles called election leaflets. Apparently this has been going on for years.

    109. dakk says:

      Perhaps it is us Scots who are blinkered on this occasion.

      We should be thankful to our British brethren Ryan Somerville,Paul Thornton and all at the Sun for having the clarity of mind and regard for our blessed Scotch children to foresee and demonstrate the dangers of this wreckless offering from the SNP.

      These British professionals and experts have kindly given us the benefit of their superior knowledge and have given up their time to carry out this experiment in order to try help us save us from ourselves.

      Or sumhin’ like that.

    110. Luigi says:

      Are disposable nappies flame retardant?

      Honest question.

    111. frogesque says:

      A delivery of dangerous baby boxes full of Sturgeonite has spontaneously combusted on Hawaii.

    112. Les Wilson says:

      I know the unionist rags can go low, very low. However this has to be their lowest level so far. Scum the lot of them. I do not buy any of them and for long time. Only the National these days.

      This concludes I was dead right, this “union” with the Britnats in charge is what needs put to sleep.

    113. Morgatron says:

      I fucking hate these scum bastards. You cant use it as kindling as shite doesnt burn. They are desperate to move the spotlight from something.

    114. Clootie says:

      …books! I forgot about books…we are all going to die in a horrible fireball!

    115. Jim Clark says:

      The real scary thing is that there are people out there who take what this unmentionable rag says as gospel.
      Can a charge of Breach of the Peace “causing the people (predictive won’t let me type the archaic word normally used in these cases) fear and alarm or something.
      Or can the manufacturer sue?

    116. Donald Bruce says:

      If it’s a Scottish idea. As far as the Unionist are concerned it must be poor. Seems Scotland needs England to advise and a people lacking in education. Scotland too small too scared to run their country

    117. Colin Alexander says:

      Reminds me of the devolution settlement promises, the NO campaign promises and promises of Scotland being equal partners in the Union.

      All those went up in smoke or are going to go up in smoke very shortly.

      As a sometimes Green voter, I don’t want the Union Treaty to go up in flames.

      Better with a Museum of Scotland display cabinet for when the Union and devolution agreements become defunct, as it’s more enviromentally friendly.

      If you can, help to end the Union and devolution by joining tomorrow’s march from Kelvingrove Park in Glasgow.

    118. Winifred Mccartney says:

      All Scots should follow the example of Liverpudlians and boycott the rag although you could use it to start a fire. Cannot imagine why anyone would want to touch it.hope fire ‘expert’ sued.

    119. Daisy Walker says:

      For all those going to the March tomorrow – have a fantastic time. I can’t go but will be thinking of you.

      This is not 2014, this is not the same campaign anymore. The British Nationalists are ramping up the pressure and digging deep into their bag of dirty tricks.

      Be prepared – remember yir Ghandi;)

      If a group start trouble – be prepared to sit or step well back to isolate them so their is a clear physical divide between their actions and yours. Let the Stewards then move in and circle / separate them for the Police to do their thing.

      If a group or person starts trouble its likely to be verbal at first – its just like the trolling sometimes seen here, don’t rise to the bait, they’re doing it deliberately.

      Use your camera phones – video and audio, have the battery on full charge, be ready and willing to film any trouble and any trouble makers. Try and ensure you have enough battery life for the whole day, trouble is more likely at the end than the start when folks feet hurt and they’re a bit more tired grumpy.

      Look out for each other, an isolated person can be accused of anything, and look out for early signs of trouble makers and alert the Stewards.

      Peace and love folks. One bit of decency at a time.

      Pass this on, so no one has to re-invent the wheel if they find themselves on the back foot.

      I hope I’m wrong, but if you are prepared, you make it so much harder for them to try their nonsense.

    120. Daisy Walker says:

      Oh and one last thing re possible trouble at the march…

      Look out for MSM cameras and reporters, chances are, if there is to be trouble they will ‘as if by magic’ just happen to be positioned at the right time and place to film it from all the best angles.

      Treat them like an early warning signal, its not like they ever showed up to any of the other marches now is it?

      To any of the Stewards out there, you should get the crowd to practice a ‘crowd sit down command’ in the event of any trouble. From that position children and the frail can then retreat to safety through the middle, in an orderly manner.

      Like I say hopefully this will not be needed.

    121. Naina Tal says:

      Cupid Stunts! Fire hazard needs 1.combustible material, 2.accelerant and 3.source of ignition. This eejit provided 2. And 3. From his lighter, without which there would be no fire.
      Keep your wean away from fire experts. Never wrap your wean up in a newspaper. Newspapers catch fire too easily. Try lighting your stove with cardboard. It doesn’t work. Newspaper though…..

    122. Greannach says:

      If you set fire to a Baby Box then tell the Sun the box went on fire, you must have very little to fill your days and should consider moving to Finland.

    123. gerry parker says:

      Nailed them good there Stu. Hope to see some wingers on the March tomorrow, I’ll be there with my good friend John (the reiki man) and tweeting on @Gerrydotp

    124. TD says:

      I’ve never bought a copy of the Sun, but I strongly suspect that if a match is applied to it, the Sun will burn quite well. So on that basis, whoever is in charge of banning things should ban the Sun as well as baby boxes.

    125. Daisy Walker says:

      O/T couple of very good essays in the last 2 days over on – the latest one is called Ignorance is Mandatory. Well worth a read.

    126. dakk says:

      The moral of Paul and Ryan’s public health piece seems to be that one shouldn’t leave one’s baby behind in a baby box during emergency evacuation in the event of a house fire.

      I think that’s the way of it.

    127. HandandShrimp says:

      Looking forward to the march tomorrow. Plan to meet up with my local branch and any Wingers around but I have a feeling that finding people might be needle in a hay stack territory. Looks like there may easily be 20,000 there…or 10 if you use BBC discounting system.

    128. HandandShrimp says:

      Looking forward to the march tomorrow. Plan to meet up with my local branch and any Wingers around but I have a feeling that finding people might be needle in a hay stack territory. Looks like there may easily be 20,000 there…or 10 if you use the BBC discounting system.

    129. HandandShrimp says:


    130. Andy Watson says:

      Wish I could be at tomorrow’s march in Glasgow to add my voice to the many others, but I’m in Aberdeen waiting to go offshore to work so London can keep on keeping the money.

    131. Greannach says:

      Sorry to disappoint everybody, but I don’t think there’s any march taking place in Glasgow tomorrow.

      Just to make sure, having a look at Reporting Scotland tomorrow teatime. I think you’ll see that so such thing occurred. If it had, they’d report it. Obviously!!

    132. Glamaig says:


      Headline on BBC news UK main page: Man will walk his daughter down the aisle at wedding!!!!

    133. louis.b.argyll says:

      Ah yes, the triangle of fire.

      Ignition, deliberate,
      fuel, stoked,
      oxygen, of anti-SNP publicity,
      Risk to democracy itself.

    134. Stevensanph says:

      An interesting article from actual experts who thoroughly debunk the newspaper attacks this week on baby boxes. Especially like this line:

      “Impact will refrain from commenting on the “fire test” carried out by the Sun. We would however recommend the Sun approach any of the UK notified bodies in fire testing, such as BRE or Warrington Fire for their opinion on the scientific merits of the testing carried out.”

    135. grafter says:

      BBC politicising snooker. First item John Major. Wtf !!.These low lifes need kicked into touch. Don’t pay for this vomit inducing stuff.

    136. Rock says:

      They are out to get the SNP and they have already succeeded – Nicola is firmly on their side in the war against Russia. Scottish independence can wait for another 622 years.

      Rock (27th August 2017 – “Underneath the Goodyear blimp”):

      “Scotland was on the verge of independence immediately after the Brexit vote.

      The unionist parties were without leaders and completely lost, the SNP had 56 out of 59 MPs and 50% of the vote, the EU’s eyes were (favourably) on Scotland.

      But Nicola squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

      The result: Nicola outsmarted by the collusion between Saints Theresa and Ruth on one hand, and Corbyn on the other, fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%.

      It is my prediction that there will be a “snap” Brexit and the SNP will be caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

      Or another “snap” Westminster election with the SNP again losing support.

      Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

      If they succeed in neutralising the Rev. Stuart Campbell and WOS, independence will be “stone dead” for at least 620 years.

      For the avoidance of any doubt, my mantra has long been and remains:

      “Always vote, and always vote SNP only until after independence.””

    137. Famous15 says:

      Rock.I disagree with you but I suspect no words of mine will change your view.

      HOWEVER I am curious as to what policies you would support after independence.

    138. Dorothy Devine says:

      HandandShrimp , were the BBBC or STV to report the march the line is , ‘Over a hundred marchers descended on Glasgow Green ‘- wouldn’t matter if there were half a million of us it would still be ‘Over a hundred marchers descended on Glasgow green’

      There was a blonde girl who used to report for the BBBC and she said there were ‘over 3 hundred people in George Square’ – somebody tackled her and she took offence. The same blonde who twisted the words of an SNP MSP at the SNP conference .

    139. Rock says:

      Famous15 says:
      4 May, 2018 at 9:00 pm

      “HOWEVER I am curious as to what policies you would support after independence.”

      My prediction skills are not good enough to predict 622 years in advance.

      Rock (2nd May – “Theresa’s Big Plan”):

      “I predict that if there is another “snap” Westminster election, the SNP will lose more than half of the seats they currently hold.

      I challenge the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here to predict how many seats the SNP would get if Ken500’s months old prediction of Saint Theresa going finally comes true and there is another “snap” Westminster election.”

    140. ben madigan says:

      off topic – but a wee update on the NI-EU debacle and some encouragement for the glasgow march tomorrow
      And a nice song for both nations

    141. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Rock @ 21:20,

      Do your amazing predictive skills at least manage to stretch forward 12 hours, and tell you if you’re going to be on the march tomorrow?

      Mine tell me that you won’t.

    142. Colin Alexander says:

      Does it matter if the SNP lose all their MP seats? ( Apart from loss of income to the SNP).

      They achieve bugger all anyway, which is not a reflection on their work ethic or talents but, reflects a Union where Scottish MPs are a waste of time, talents and money.

      The main reason I could think of to bother voting for Carol Monaghan, even though I personally rate her, is that: well, at least it’s no a Tory (or Red Tory) getting the seat, if Carol is re-elected.

      Honestly, I think her time and talents ( and taxpayers cash) are wasted going there, though she might disagree.

      They can leave their office staff to send the fobbing-off letters to their constituents if they ask for help (as many (almost all?) MPs of all parties already do anyway).

      If the SNP wanted to play it safe, why didn’t they put the MP candidates on the “vote SNP for indy” manifesto and the “vote SNP for devolution” for the MSP candidates?

      Instead it’s vote SNP MPs for what? An SNP MP made a powerful speech? Only political nerds watch MP’s speeches. (Sorry Wingers). Labour and the Tories don’t give a fig about what the SNP say.

      More importantly, no matter how true or how persuasive, it will be meaningless come the division lobby – Scottish MPs are outnumbered 10-1, so even if every Scots MP was SNP, it would be the feeble 59 out of 650.

    143. galamcennalath says:

      Saw these online …

      Brexit – making Great Britain into little England for the little Englanders.

      … and …

      B = bloody minded superior Britishness.
      R = reactionary, regressive and retrograde
      E = Engerlander
      X = Xenophobic,
      I = insular, inward and ignorant
      T= tits up

      …. about right.

    144. Thepnr says:

      @Brian Hume & @TD

      You were right we should listen to what Colin has to say. Nobody should criticise what he says because we are outnumbered 10-1 so Scotland is useless.

      The SNP are even more useless as they only play it safe, I’m really sorry I ever doubted anything Colin has had to say. Like both of you said today he is entitled to his opinion.

      I thank you for opening my eyes to that of which I was obviously blind before. Colin has something to say and I should maybe listen. Give the man a chance.

      That’ll be right!

      He is an enemy of those that support Independence and that is his only purpose here, no matter how much cream he puts on the top of anything he has to say to make it look nice and taste less bitter. It is still poison.

    145. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 22:50,

      Coco the shapeshifter. Once upon a time he was a Labourite federalist pusher. Now he’s a Green, it seems.

      Tomorrow, who knows? But it’ll still be SNPbaad. Funny that.

    146. Famous15 says:

      Rock and Colin Alexander are not an anti SNP tag team.

      They are both petty officers in the pay of British imperialism.

      Waddles like a duck ,quacks like a duck!


      There must be something happening tomorrow they wish to destroy.What is it I wonder?

    147. Phronesis says:

      Scotland cannot leave the UK because it’s too wee, poor, stupid-reductio ad absurdum.

      Actually Scotland can, it should and it will. Tomorrow’s Indy march is a very significant statement of intent.

    148. Thepnr says:


      Well something must have got you stirred. First time I’ve ever saw you comment with nothing more than your own opinion.

      Very pleased that you have done so too, hope you’ll be at the Green tomorrow 🙂

    149. yesindyref2 says:

      If you throw asbestos into the Sun it will burn up instantly.

      Set your controls for the heart of the sun!

    150. yesindyref2 says:

      “the” not “your”. Ho hum.

    151. Bob Mack says:

      Who sponsors these articles? King Herrod ?

      If they go any lower they could strike oil.

    152. Street Andrew says:

      Dr Jim says:

      “I think Ryan is a bit of a sperm donor, Oooh! that might make sense”

      I think perhaps he just needs to take more senna pods. He could probably fill the box easily.

    153. ben madigan says:

      @Colin Alexander – – are you trying to say throughout your many posts that you would prefer the SNP to have an abstentionist policy towards Westminster?

      if so, SNP branches would need to put forward abstentionism as its policy. it would need to be supported at the annual conference and then by the voters at the next local/general elections.

      SNP members would need to be convinced.
      What arguments can you put forward for abstentionism as a policy?

      Although Sinn Fein has long had a well-supported abstentionist policy towards Westminster, I don’t know how far (if at all) their arguments can be transposed to Scotland.

      Briefly SF are republican, won’t swear an oath of allegiance to HM Elizabeth II, want the English to have no input in Ireland and as Irish want to have no input in England/GB.

      It’s up to the Scottish people to follow these lines of argument if they want or to develop their own policy of SNP abstentionism (if that’s what party members want) and then see if that’s what the Scots in general want

      if abstentionism is what you’re interested in, why not join the SNP and see how pursuing an abstentionist policy goes?

    154. Mary Miles says:

      Hi from Tassie:

      Wish I could join the march tomorrow. Will be thinking of you all and cheering you on!!

      Things looking more riddiculous with the westminster parliament every day – only way is Independence.

      Good Luck to all!

    155. Mary miles says:

      Ps from Tassie:

      Time has come for all who want Independence to show it! Come on all you people who hold back – writers, professionals etc – you are fighting for Scotland!!!

      Think about the future you want for your children/grandchildren and stand up for it!!

      I did join a march in 2016 whilst I was over there on holiday.

      Again good luck and hope it’s an enormous gathering. Come on you young ones – when I lived over there in my youth I voted SNP and stood up for Scotland at every opportunity!! The time for Independence is long overdue and is deserved.

    156. Thepnr says:

      @Mary Miles

      Great to have your support, I’m sure you will catch much of it on Independence Live. Thanks for thinking of us and you are absolutely right. The only way is Independence!

      We’ll get there that’s a certainty, just a question of when.

      Lets hope sooner rather than later, but the tortoise beat the hare. Too controversial so I’ll say nothing else for now LOL.

    157. yesindyref2 says:

      If you use a folded Sun newspaper to try to flatten a fly, it flies away in disgust, so always make sure the title is on the inside when you fold it. If you happen to find a Sun newspaper in the butchers while buying your square sausage, that is.

      If you try to use the square sausage to flatten the fly, make sure it doesn’t have a union jack on it as the fly will see it coming and fly away in disgust.

      If you put a fly in a baby box it will be surprised.

    158. TD says:

      Thepnr at 10:50

      “You were right we should listen to what Colin has to say.”

      Where did I say we should listen to what he has to say? I suggested that if he posts something that is inoffensive, there is little point in calling him names. I would go further and say that even if he is offensive, name calling is not the way to deal with it.

      The post he made which resulted in name calling by one or two was supportive of independence, but in my opinion added no value. There are lots of posts here which could be described in the same way. Presumably therefore the only reason for the name calling was that it was CA who posted. That amounts to prejudice.

      I disagree with CA in most of what he says. Even when I agree with what he says, I do not consider that he enlightens me in any way. He does not give me any food for thought, nor does he give me any insight into the independence cause. But if I were to call him names because of that, then I would be diminished – not him. And our enemies would be given ammunition to support their contention that Wingers are not very nice people.

      We all know that the best way to deal with CA and his kind is to ignore them. If we call them names, we are not ignoring them. If we must respond to the trouble makers, then it will be far more effective if we defeat them through the power of our arguments rather than insulting them. No amount of name calling will persuade even one No voter to change to Yes and for me, that has to be the paramount aim. If we call people names, it can only mean one of two things – either we are unable to come up with a reasoned argument or we are letting our emotions get the better of us. Both of these cause us harm and should be avoided.

    159. yesindyref2 says:

      If you put Colin Alexander in a baby box please don’t ask Ryan Somerville to do water retention tests on it.

    160. Juan says:

      I saw Ryan’s podcast on how to make your cat go Woof! All you need is a gallon of petrol and a lighter, apparently.
      See you at the march the morra.

    161. Thepnr says:


      You’ve been around a while and like me must have realised that the poster with the username Colin Alexander (and many variations of the same name) is not here to support Independence.

      You say:

      “Presumably therefore the only reason for the name calling was that it was CA who posted. That amounts to prejudice.”

      No that is well off the mark, the “name calling” as you put it is necessary for a couple of reasons.

      Number one whoever CA is he is NOT on the side of Independence and you just need to read not all of his posts but even just the last weeks would convince you of that.

      The second is that the posts are purposely meant to destroy morale, seriously they are and if you fail to see that then please look again. The stench of the negativity is overwhelming even above the sugar coated concern that is put on.

      By the way, I stopped calling him names a long time ago as it is as you say a waste of time. I recognise him for what he is and treat him accordingly by totally ignoring him.

      At least I agree with you there.

    162. Chick McGregor says:

      Never realised until now that The Sun was printed on fireproof paper. Maybe that is why it isn’t even much good as an arse wipe.

    163. Hamish100 says:

      Rock and Colin Alexander

      A cure for insomniacs

      Night zzzzzzzz

    164. K1 says:

      I disagree with your premise that ‘name calling’ diminishes’ the person doing the name calling, it very much depends on context and the accuracy of the descriptor being used. But if indeed it does ‘diminish’ the person doing the name calling, then perhaps you could have a word in the Rev’s ear too TD? After all he’s pretty much been calling people names, not just on the ‘playground’ of twitter for years but also on his atl articles too.

      I really don’t think that the Rev when describing accurately the behaviour and nonsense that he publishes about others or when people revert to shorthand descriptors of CA on here, that they have not pursued reasoned arguments with them/him over a sustained period of time?

      Quite the opposite, we’ve had the reasoned arguments, we’ve bent over backwards for over a year since he arrived on Wings on all his pet subjects. The reality is people who have closely followed the btl exchanges over this period know exactly why he is saying what he does.

      For myself CA and I have had the reasoned debates, on a few subjects and in fact on our last one wrt ‘named person’, he slinked away unable to acknowledge that he was wrong having been provided with accurate factual evidence that contradicted his entire position.

      He attempted an ad hominem during that ‘debate’ when challenged and then when others didn’t ‘bite’ he bit by bit backed down with that ploy, eventually grudgingly admitting that my arguments were sound, but only because others were doing do?

      This is someone who has clearly shown he is incapable of serious debate, he attempts to dodge the challenge and plays victim when anyone seriously challenges him. And this had been repeatedly the case with many other posters since he arrived. He literally never stops finding critical problems with everything to do with the SNP and independence, it’s concern trolling taken to a art form.

      So, when a long term poster calls him a ‘name’, it isn’t some throwaway insult, it’s that we’ve all been here so many times and anyone who arrives late to the party so to speak or doesn’t watch these threads as closely as others do, will obviously not know the history involved.

      But all of this is beside the point I am making wrt to your point about ‘diminishes’ the person who is calling someone a ‘name’, or that ‘harm’ is caused by doing do. If that is the case, given this list of articles wherein the Rev has pointedly called people names, has the Rev diminished himself and where is the proof on the matter that name calling is a deciding factor on whether a person is for Scotland’s’ independence, or whether a No voter reason’s for not voting Yes is premised upon a bunch of anonymous posters on this blog occasionally using a ‘name’ against another anonymous poster and finally what harm has he caused by writing these articles?

      He has reasoned to the point of knowing that of what he speaks, and accurately described as ‘idiot’ stupid’ ‘fanny’ and ‘arsehole’. Has he lost the plot? Has he prevented No voters turning to Yes.

      It seems to me if you behave like an arse, act like a fool, come out with idiotic statements and are a bit of a fanny, then where’s the harm in pointing that out?

      But the part where I do agree with you…having exhausted all avenues of reasonable debate, having engaged with whoever is doing the sort of stuff CA has been doing on Wings for months, knowing that it’s a game. Then yes, ignore completely. But we can all be forgiven for the occasional outburst of calling him out on his arseholeness from time to time, can we not?

    165. dakk says:

      Dreading tomorrow’s open ended Yoon infested day at work.

      Hope to join march around 3.30 to be among my own people.

    166. yesindyref2 says:

      There are those who would like to attack Indy and its support in any way they can, and some of it can be done “cleverly”. But the trick is to see what is the positive side, and see what is being posted that can be taken against that positive side, possibly in a posting that says “hey, Indy is great”:

      1. Rev’s fundraiser, look at how many tried to cause division and devalue the blog, with comments similar to “no wonder lurkers don’t want to post here, you’re all so nasty”.

      2. The March. Giving a month out of date itinerary is one way of attacking the march, and trying to demotivate people so the numbers drop, but there have been others.

      3. Currently Labour and the LibDems are supporting the SNP over Holyrood not giving consent to the EU Withdrawal Bill with its power grab clause 11 in place. Look for postings that attacak Labour and the LibDems over devolution (not their usual SNP Bad stuff).

      4. Similar for the Continutity Bill, only the Tories voted against it.

      Wingers don’t have to believe me, or any of the other Troll-hunters, all you need to do is – don’t be fooled. Read carefully, and remember what posters have said before. What glitters is not always gold. And yeah, if you like, apply the same rule to me. Don’t presume I’m an Indy supporter just because I SAY I want Independence.

    167. Cubby says:

      Sensibledave = Rock = Colin Alexander = boring paid to troll British Nationalists. Same old boring guff.

      Get a decent job guys.

    168. Cactus says:


      – Assemble.
      – March.
      – Keep a camera handy (well said Daisy) x.
      – If provoked… smile and blow kisses.
      – Sing, chant and have fun.

      4 hours to go…

      NOW is the TIME to MARCH for SCOTLAND!

    169. Robert Louis says:

      Looks like the weather will be great in Glasgow today. 🙂

      The kind of day where, if you are fed up of Scotland being treated like scum by London, and kind of sick of Scotland getting its wealth stolen every minute of every day by London Tories, and you think Scotland running its own affairs like ANY NORMAL country might do a better job of it than Westminster, then you would join a massive march for independence.

      Time to make a stand, time to make sure the march today cannot be ignored by the paid liars at the blatantly biased british propaganda company (aka, BBC) in Pacific Quay. No matter what, get to the march.

      Join the march, and if you cannot march, join everybody and cheer the marchers on from Glasgow green as they arrive.

      Today will be a great day. Marching for independence. 🙂

      March assembles at Kelvingrove and ends at Glasgow green.

      N.B. I roughly know the route to be taken, but does anybody know the full updated route the march will take???

    170. ronnie anderson says:

      Up showered drying oot ready to get dressed , Bdtt tittyvating himself in the toilet ( he’ll be expecting some wummins tae kiss him the day )

      Car loaded will be in Glasgow Green at 8.30, my two Calligraphers hands are knackered If by chancety anybody that can do Calligraphy I have ah seat for U at the Wings stall ( mind bring your pen & ink ).

      Sees Us at the Green Lurkers & Wingers .

    171. Dorothy Devine says:

      Robert Louis , Ronnie posted the route somewhere on this posting.

      I have a hip that is giving me gip so I intend to join round about Jamaica Street – there is no way I’d make it from Kelvingrove.

    172. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Rev I would delete that pic of the prophet Muhammad, btw.

    173. louis.b.argyll says:

      Have a great day Ronnie, Dorothy, Robert Louis and all who are heading to the march.

      March with pride in eachother and love for your fellow Scots (I’m afraid that’s everyone).

      Cactus..Will be awaiting your happy sore feet ramblings, much later, taxi!?

    174. AndyMcKangry says:

      Best wishes for a great day today to all wingers and everyone else on the march.
      I’ll be conducting a wedding in Pebbles today so won’t be able to join you.
      The absolute crap in the media over the last week highlights the importance of events like today.
      Are you coming up for the day Rev??
      Have a great day everyone!!!

    175. frogesque says:

      Good luck for all an the march today, gutted I can’t join you, last minute hitch, life and all that shit stuff.

      Looks as if Mr Sun, not the rag one will come out and shine on yous all. Remember, keep cool, keep hydrated and have a fantastic day.

    176. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Loius

      AUOB have put this route map on their facebook page, looks like a last minute small change at the request of Police Scotland.

      Special day, let’s enjoy it 🙂

    177. gus1940 says:

      What’s the world coming to?

      There are only 17 Steven Gerrard stories in today’s on-line Daily Record.

      Why are they not setting fire to baby boxes?

    178. Big Jock says:

      Steven Gerard the great saviour of the Yoon empire. I think it’s another Sevco great hype that will bankrupt them again! So much for them rebuilding and lowering ambition. Brendan will see him off by December.

    179. Macart says:

      Exercise. My arch Nemesis. Still, anything for a worthy cause. 🙂

    180. Roger says:

      The Sun always published sneering, jeering shite. So nothing has changed.
      Good luck to all of you going on the indy march.

    181. Ottomanboi says:

      Kosovo is celebrating 10 years of independence. COME ON SCOTLAND/ALBA! BREAK THE CHAINS! RECLAIM OUR COUNTRY!

    182. Footsoldier says:

      Big Indy march in Glasgow today which must surely be news but no mention of it in The Herald? Don’t buy this biased Unionist newspaper.

    183. Cubby says:

      Not a word on the BBC about the independence march today in Glasgow.

      British Nationalists state television = BBC = national disgrace.

      On my way soon to Kelvingrove.

    184. yesindyref2 says:

      Put me down as a plus one in spirit if not body for the march “yesindyref2 is here”. Might make Glasgow Green, doubt it though, a lot of work to do these 3 days.

    185. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Listened to Radio never heard a mention about the march.

      Bit odd. See you there folks.

    186. HandandShrimp says:

      Walking shoes on, backpack on, ready to go. 🙂

    187. HandandShrimp says:

      PS Brewer mentioned walk at 8 o’clock headlines although stumbled over it a bit. The Hawaiian volcano broke his tongue.

    188. starlaw says:

      Radio Shortbread 9am news predicting 40,000 turnout for the march.

    189. Greannach says:

      What happens if you put Rupert Murdoch inside a Baby box and bury it at sea?

      Does Shona Robison have questions to answer about the demise of Rupert Maxwell?

      Blow for Salmond.

    190. Sarah says:

      To all on the march – have a great day everyone, I’ll be cheering you on. I’m aiming for the Inverness version myself – July 28th, 13.00! But hope the job is done by then.

    191. dakk says:

      Good luck,and enjoy the day guys,as I disappear up my own arse.

      Hope to make it around 3 or 4.

    192. Tam Fae Somewhere says:

      On train to Glasgow.

      First ever demonstration/March in my 50+ years.

      Looking forward to it!

    193. I suspect as we get closer to Brexit and a second indy ref
      We will see the British nationalist media sink to even lower levels in order to attack the Scottish Government.

    194. Davy says:

      For all of you who are marching today, remember each one you represents 10 of us who can’t get there.

      Today you carry our dreams, our hopes and our futures.

      Today you are the PRIDE of Scotland.

      March well and enjoy the day.

    195. Fergus Green says:

      If you come across a baldy man with round specs, banging a Native American drum on the march, please say ‘Hi Fergus’

    196. Welsh Sion says:

      To all of today’s marchers – Good Luck!

      25. (of 60.)

      The sun and the snowflake

      “Ha!” said the sun one day. “How weak and insignificant you are, little snowflake! Why, I could melt you with one wink of my eye.”

      “Perhaps,” replied the little snowflake. “But you’ll find it much harder to get rid of us when thousands and thousands of us cover the land.”

      The sun set an angry red colour.

      Parables for the New Politics

    197. Macart says:

      I see smiley people… everywhere. Also? I’m lost.

    198. Wish I was with you. I’m on crutches here and in tears. Hiv a great day.

    199. Hopefully this is a livestream of March for Indy2,

    200. auld highlander says:

      Fantastic stuff.

      Am nearly greetin watching the march, the drummers will have nearly an hour of pounding to do, keep it up guys.

      Wonder how much the bias broadcasting clowns will censor it.

    201. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Best wishes to everyone from Frankfurt.

      I hope you have a huge turnout, lots of fun and a very loud message for London:

      “We want our Independence back and were going to get it.”

      I’ve sent over as much sun as I could..! 🙂

    202. mike cassidy says:

      Enjoy the march today.

      Enjoy singing “You’ll Never Walk Alone”

      Cos Mr Gerrard is in for a shock when he tries singing that Liverpool anthem at Ibrox!

    203. Robert Andrew says:

      That was like parking the box on the gas cooker.

    204. Ignore the MSM,

      they will distort anything pro Scotland,

      don`t waste another breath on wondering what the MSM will do/say,

      they are anathema/abomination,

      celebrate Scotland`s multi cultural unity in our Freedom,

      concentrate on and support New Media (except the leftard Bella).

    205. Colmat says:

      Sorry I could not be there today but best wishes to all on the march, from us here in Geneva.

    206. Archbishop of Dork says:

      An inviting blue sea of Saltires.

    207. auld highlander says:

      More webcams for those who cant b there.

    208. Jack Murphy says:

      Re the Scottish government’s Baby Boxes——my Gran is in a state of SHOCK and DISTRESS.
      She’s the proud owner of a Hoover Henry who LIVES IN A CARDBOARD BOX!!

      Gran has an urgent question for The Sun ‘newspaper’ and “Ryan, a fire safety consultant with 22 years experience”—-

      Should her Henry Box be kept out of direct sunlight, and is it safe to return little sweet Henry to his cardboard home when still hot after sooking up all Gran’s cornflakes from the kitchen floor?

      Little Henry and his cardboard home 🙂 :

    209. Robert Peffers says:

      @TD says: 5 May, 2018 at 12:15 am:

      “I suggested that if he posts something that is inoffensive, there is little point in calling him names.”

      Nothing Colin posts is inoffensive, TD.

      You are just missing, the perhaps, deflected innuendo the post will contain that the SNP/SG/Nicola Sturgeon are Baad! Baaad! Baaaad!.

      Never mind his insistent claims that he supports independence for, like many other pretendy left wing socialists, Colin has navigated so far left round the circle of the political spectrum that, like NuLabour, have ended up more right of centre than extreme right people like Genghis Khan, Adolf Hitler and Mrs Thatcher.

      “I would go further and say that even if he is offensive, name calling is not the way to deal with it.”

      You are correct there, TD, but the unfortunate effects of such as Colin is that some people are fooled by their comments and think them innocent criticisms. Somewhere within whatever Colin posts will be a direct or implied SNP BAAAD!

      So, except for the occasional outing of Colin’s real hidden agenda, the best way to deal with Colin is to just scroll on by for the secondary part of Colin’s agenda is, like several other rather similar commenters, to divert Wingers from the topic under debate.

      Note that he has just succeeded in doing so – Yet Again – as here we are commenting about Colin and thus not upon the matter under debate. That is what Colin’s, and several others who all profess to be Indy supporters, have as their main agenda.

      The SNP are like no other United Kingdom political party. They are mainly financed by their party membership and not by other vested interests like the Establishment, The financial sector or trade unions.

      The SNP are rather like a big extended family. Those elected to office do not make party policy. Policy can only be made or changed by delegates sent to national conference by rank & file local branches and constituency associations. So Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t set party policy – the members do.

      Now note that several of Colin’s recent comments have even gone to the lengths of claiming SG ministers should resign or be sacked. He has the knives out for Shone Robinson for example. Yet every one of his complaints can be shown as n absolute load of rubbish. First of all the minister had taken the correct steps and secondly the SG does not run local Health Boards or Hospital Boards or GP practices. The SG oversees them and regulates them.

      If mistakes are made they are made by the local Hospitals and medical practices and thus the proper procedure by the SG is to investigate and take action against the persons making mistakes but Colin, like the Scottish opposition parties, immediately start demanding the SG minister resigns. But note too that these same people demand that the local authorities be made more independent of central government. They obviously cannot have it both ways.

      Either the local areas have autonomy and carry the can for their mistakes or the SG runs the local service and takes the blame for their mistakes. It cannot be right for the local areas to have autonomy while the can for mistakes rests with the SG. Strangely enough I cannot recall that ever being the case when other than an SNP government was in power at Holyrood. Now why do you imagine that would be the case?

    210. TheWasp says:

      Nothing about the march on the big ukok news, as we are already onto the English women’s fashion cup final, and how the English women’s game is going to dominate the world

    211. TheWasp says:

      Obviously not fashion but F.A. cup

    212. sassenach says:

      BBC Scotland news webpage has the march headlined, and a reasonably fair summary???

      What is going on??

      Surely a fake page!!

    213. mrthms says:

      I have been following the march and now in Glasgow Green, which is filling up. I reckon when the guesstimates are done it will be more than 40,000.

    214. Black Star says:

      All this Baby Box nonsense over the last week just goes to prove how Unionists are losing the plot. From top to bottom, be it aristocrats, politicians, lords and ladies, TV celebs, sportspeople, journalists, broadcast news editors and presenters, creepy members of SIU, and so on. They’re all in a big rush to degrade anything Scottish, or anything at all implemented by the Scottish Government.

      Tories in Scotland love to criticise every aspect of SNP policy while turning a blind eye to the omnishambles being created down south by the Tory Mothership, crewed by eegits and cretins. The hypocrisy is galling.

      At best they are clowns. It seems the only thing to do now is laugh at their pathetic efforts to demean Scotland.

      Vote SNP for pride and self-respect. Ignore all Unionist clowns.

    215. Cactus says:

      Greetings fae The Green.


      Oh Yes!

    216. Effijy says:

      Let’s hope that Scotland’s main cities embrace the garbage that is the Sun Fake Newspaper I the same way that Liverpool does.

      I always liked Liverpudlians, and they don’t allow that type of flammable trash on their news stands.

      Just left the Indy Ref 2 March in Glasgow.
      Put a lump in my throat to watch it all unfold.
      I’ve never seen so many Scottish Flags over the whole of my life.
      We had Drummers, Pipers, Singers, Megaphones, Whistles, Babies, Pensioners, soldiers, disabled, ethic communities all.

      The Wings Flag flew proudly among the Saltires and Royal Standard’s of Scotland.

      It seemed to me that we were forced to meander to ensure that we could never be seen to fill a massive street from one view point?

      West George Street was covered for the longest stretch but again forced no to march on its beginning, or its end.

      I’m looking form to BBC 1984 assuring that me that one other man was there on the march and 40,000 were all undercover police officers.

      The Sun reports that all the Scottish Police Vehicles were forced by Nicola Sturgeon to use Combustible Fuels in heir petrol tanks. An obvious danger to the public as any match held against this fuel would ignite instantly.

    217. Rocky II says:

      £££s Genuine question:

      Does anyone know where the Hundreds of Pounds that is raised at the Wings stall goes???

      Are we all on a share of it???

      Is it for a big well deserved holiday for all Wingers once we win our Independence???

      Just curious.

      The till at the Wings Stall never stops ringing at one of these Marches, so I am asking a perfectly legitimate question:

      Where is all this money going???

      Hopefully someone who runs the Wings Stall can enlighten me.

      Someone has a nice little earner here.

      I would hate to think someone was fleecing their fellow Wingers.

      If no one can answer this question at the moment, I will understand, because they are right in the middle of their march.

      I will ask again later on.

      Have you ever met a skint Treasurer??? Or a Treasurer’s buddy???

    218. Hamish100 says:

      rocky 2
      did you not ask rock 1 or the stallholder. Why not go OT and discuss further?

      Email the Rev direct. Are you one of the doubting thomases?

    219. Wullie B says:

      sassenach says:
      5 May, 2018 at 1:20 pm

      BBC Scotland news webpage has the march headlined, and a reasonably fair summary???

      What is going on??

      Surely a fake page!!

      I thought I was hearing things when Radio Shortbread mentioned tens of thousands of marchers, we usually hear of 2-3 thousand when significantly more, do they now realise that the world laughs when the BBC is described as impartial, I am sure their brainfart will soon dissipate, and they will be back to their usual antics in the very near future

    220. Bobp says:

      On the train home now me and the what a turnout, what a march.

    221. PacMan says:

      Wullie B says @ 5 May, 2018 at 2:58 pm

      Just back from Glasgow. I wasn’t involved in the march but was up there on other business and had watched it going by at Union Street. The march went vy on for ages and only a few RWB Meanies with their Union Jacks and a flat-top cap, ‘Kelvingrove’ accented muppet with a megaphone to cheer the march on LOL.

      The Indy movement is going to post videos and photos all over the web and so are the RWB Meanies. Everybody will know the true size of the march. The British Broadcasting Corporation are going to look stupid if they don’t mention the event or say there were only a couple of men and their dug at it.

    222. Dorothy Devine says:

      Just back form the Green.

      It was full to bursting and what a wonderful sight!

      Wee policeman ( and he was wee!)for numbers reckoned 30-40 thousand but rumour had it at 90 thousand – I hope rumour was correct!

      As I left an obnoxious old fell shouted at me that I should be ashamed of the chaos I made , the whole place at a standstill – I was far from ashamed!

      I met a lovely lady called Lynne, John , Sam , Briandoonthetoon , Ronnie of course with his wee refreshments and best of all ( sorry chaps!) Smallaxe!

      The paltry nuisance value was present union flags at the ready but all I saw were great big smiles!

      I feel refreshed and recharged.

    223. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Sore feet after the wee stroll, what a nice bunch of folk proud to be associated with folk like that.

      Met a Geordie settled in Scotland resides in the borders fully converted to independence.

      Met a nice chap from Peterhead dont know if he made it to the end his saltire was on a pole high enough to hit the electric cables.

      Had the pleasure of meeting Macart.

      Well done to all.

    224. Macart says:

      Still lost. Sigh!

    225. Dorothy Devine says:

      Macart , how many Old Pulteneys did you have?

      ‘Zat why you’re lost??

    226. Macart says:

      Just one of Ron’s medicinal tinctures (cough).

    227. yesindyref2 says:

      I very much doubt if it was you that was lost, it was probably the march itself!

    228. Legerwood says:

      On train home. Great day. Huge cross and BBC website seems to have acknowledged that. Could hardly do otherwise

    229. Dr Jim says:

      Ma legs ur sair!

    230. Brian McHugh says:

      UKIP Played 126, Won 3, Drawn 0, Lost 123… And the Tory’s are still trying to convince everyone that Brexit is the will of the UK population.

      Also. Popped down to Glasgow Green. Brilliant turnout, atmosphere and day. ??

    231. yesindyref2 says:

      Anyways, thanks to all those that went to the march, or as the Beeb would put it, thanks very much INDEED, got back late from business which went very well after a slow start Thursday, keyed up so bed late, slept 12 hours only woke once for a cuppa which is very unusual, lot of work to do as the trip went well! Summer and tourists is the season we make most of our money and with all the things happening last year, well behind this year. Which reminds me, email later on about marketing in a certain mag …

      I already met a few wingers 2 years ago, shame to have missed the chance of meeting more, specially the infamous Macart 🙂

    232. Alba46 says:

      Just back from Glasgow Green. What a fantastic turnout. Great atmosphere. Arrived at the green fairly early and it took another 30 minutes at least for everyone to get in. Don’t know the numbers but very substantial.

      Not interested in what the state funded broadcaster says about the numbers, in fact not interested in anything they say. Truth is a stranger to these cretins.

      Don’t know anyone in AUOB but they really did a fantastic job in pulling this together. Thanks guys and gals it was greatly appreciated. The amount of work that was put into to the organising and stewarding of the Demo was apparent for all to see.

      The whole thing made the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.

    233. Thepnr says:

      @Rocky II

      All the £££’s gathered in from the mugs buying crap at the Wings stall is spent on booze and fags daftie. Some have even bought big flat screen telly’s.

      What else would they spend it on? They’re wingers.

    234. Dorothy Devine says:

      Dr Jim , you are not alone!

    235. Cubby says:

      A big thank you to the organisers of the March. Getting a dry day in a Glasgow is a considerable achievement.

      The Britnats are foaming at the mouth.

    236. Alba46 says:

      Great coverage of todays march in Glasgow on RT.

    237. Rocky II says:


      Do you work on the Wings Stall???

    238. Training Day says:

      Just in and would estimate 30-40k at the march, with huge support from the shops and houses along the route. A gaggle of silly wee boys at the corner of Union street (who’d a thunk it?) opposed.

    239. jfngw says:

      Nicola Sturgeon looks for ways to reduce infant mortality.

      Ruth Davidson looks for ways to appear on national TV for self promotion in the hope she can find a safe seat and become the Tory leader and PM – it’s not going to happen, you’re the Scots iok to them.

      Richard Leonard spends his time looking for individuals he can display at Holyrood to make some political capitol, I suspect he can’t remember their names by Friday morning.

    240. Cubby says:

      Training day 5.23

      The bargain bucket brigade at the bottom of Union st.

    241. Archbishop of Dork says:

      The Shun reporting in its headline that indy supporters were “filmed marching through Glasgow”. Note “filmed” as if to suggest that something nefarious was going on.

      The paper also puts the number of marchers at only twenty thousand. Says that they brought the city to a “standstill”. And the indy march was “flanked by a number of Catalan independence campaigners”. Wow, that is sinister.

      They also talked of indy supporters and union supporters having “verbal clashes” with “the cops acting as buffer”.

    242. Robert Louis says:

      A great Day.

      I saw the nutty nazi saluting unionists in town (their were about 20), and what a sad wee bunch they were. Randomly singing god save the Queen. Ordinary folk in the street were literally laughing at them. Total tubes.

      What was amazing was the diversity in the march and at the green. Lots of people, lots of Scotland flags. Let’s get this referendum thing started, he summer’s coming. No better time to start.

    243. Liz g says:

      Ronnie Anderson
      Hope I didnay land ye in it??
      Just as I was leaving a well dressed woman approached me and asked if I was from Wings over Scotland (had a Wings Flag)
      I said the stall was over there
      She then asked if I represented Wings Over Scotland here, said no go to the stall and ask for Ronnie Anderson,and she headed of towards it!
      Sorry if it was the wrong thing to do…
      But hopefully it was mibbi just mair Fame and infamy fur ye!

    244. joannie says:

      Wow, I’m thoroughly shocked to find that cardboard is flammable.

      Glad to hear the indy march went well, it’d be nice if you could rejoin us in the EU sometime soon.

    245. Greannach says:

      BBC News just gave details of thousands marching and had an expert on to discuss why they were protesting in Paris against President Macron.

      My first time watching BBC “News” in over a decade. My last.

    246. Dave McDave says:

      Back in Helensburgh after a great day up the town with the kids. We hadn’t told them what was on today but when my wife asked my eight year old if she knew where her Nessie hat was, my daughter immediately asked “Are we going marching with all the Scotland flags again?”
      It was a great turnout and the Green was mobbed, a sea of Saltires fluttering in the breeze. Had hoped to say hi to some Wingers but as usual, the Wings stall was absolutely heaving! As we walked back through the town to the car, a well dressed gent stopped my wife to say he really liked the Wings Over Scotland flag she was wearing round her shoulders! Already looking forward to the imminent campaign and seeing Saltires on every street. Bring it On!

    247. Les Wilson says:

      At the gates of Glasgow green today, an official type woman was standing at the gates, another woman approached her and ask jokingly had she been counting the numbers of Indy supporters had been on the March.

      The woman replied now way was I counting, but the Police had estimated at 36k she said. I am guessing the police would have given the info to their officers as so the would know what was heading their way.

    248. Phydaux says:

      How good it feels to be on the march again, celebrating together, en masse, for our common cause.A wee train journey from Edinburgh and a great day out…our bonny sky blue Saltires flying as far as the eye could see and which brought light to an overcast sky. Back home and still buzzing.

      The twisted firestarters may like to take heed of this Chinese proverb: “ The fire you kindle for your enemy often burns yourself more than them. “

    249. Robin says:

      I suppose it’s hard to get an exact number due to the amount of people who follow the march on the pavement.

      How do you count who attended?

      Not everybody who attended was waving Saltires. So I would guess it would be very difficult to get an exact number.

      You also have Saturday shoppers and just the general curious by-standers.

      From what i witnessed it was a very good advert for Scottish Independence.

    250. HandandShrimp says:

      Fantastic day, just in after a small refreshment on the way home. Saw Ronnie, X Sticks and Patrician at the Wings stall and spoke to a couple of very nice Wings readers from Oban.

      Did Colin or Rock collect their promised pint from Ronnie?

      All in a lovely day, thought Tommy Shepherd spoke well but missed some of the later speakers as up at the back and the wind was messing with the sound…it didn’t rain either 🙂

    251. Abulhaq says:

      Why in the UK are demonstrations held on Saturdays, for many a working day or if you’re Jewish a non option. Sunday surely would be better as it does not compete with the sacred rituals of football.
      How about holding the next one in the lion’s den, London?

    252. Brian McHugh says:

      Abulhaq. No way, Sunday mornings are reserved for the bigot marches, when everyone is sleeping off a hangover and they can’t bother anyone.

      Saturday was perfect for maximum exposure.

    253. Dorothy Devine says:

      That article in the Express is utterly disgusting in its lack of truth and the moronic comments below the line even worse.

      It is like an incitement to violence – time the media was reigned in and perhaps Police Scotland could demand corrections to the article.

    254. Meg merrilees says:

      Congratulations to all on today’s march-fantastic achievement

      As for the SUN and their ridiculous stunt – shameful thing to do. The whole team involved should be sacked for such a cheap, worthless gimmick. Really upsetting to see such a fabulous initiative being mocked.

    255. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Shout to the bold Macart – a delight to meet you at last!


    256. Fred says:

      What a day! a perfect day! met the most intelligent folk in Scotland, could neither see the beginning nor tell the end! Folk from Berwickshire, Dunbar, Dundee & EK, fine folk the lot of them in our section. A handful of Fascists at Jamaica/Argyle Streets but we just laughed at the bastards, oh how we laughed! & the scum didn’t like it at all!

      Some slog up the Blytheswood hill tae! Sadly I missed Smallaxe but met Cactus & Ronnie & Donald Anderson & the Angus Quine, better folk never stepped! Hope they all made it hame safe & sound. Ended up in the Heilan Jessie’s. Never seen so many flegs! What a people we are!

      “Now is not the time?” THE TIME IS NOW!

    257. Tam the Bam. says:

      What a day!……..WHAT-A-DAY!!!!

      The inevitable broadcast media attempt to put a damper on things (which failed miserably of course) fell to STV on this occasion.On their 6-30pm bulletin they announced…”Organisers HAD hoped for a crowd of 40k.”

      Got news for you STV…..they got it.

    258. Golfnut says:

      Hi, update I think. Police Scotland estimate 90,000. The bbc are running with tens of thousands, up to 80,000. Guess I’m going with the 90,000.

    259. Colin Alexander says:

      Mr Peffers

      I am honoured with such attention. Thank you, sir. Even if most of what you say is mince.

      Sorry, I’ve only just seen it. I’ve had a busy day marching through Glesga with my fellow independists.

      It was an honour and privilege to walk among my fellow independence supporters. Such enthusiasm and good spirits from my fellow marchers – and even their dugs seemed to enjoy it too.

      I also saw a WingsoverScotland flag held by a guy with badges on his hat.

      I also got a laugh at the wee bunch of Unionists at the corner of Clyde st with their upside doon Union Jack.

    260. Highland Wifie says:

      Just back (long way back to the Highlands). What a fantastic day.
      Thank you so much for the warm welcome at the Wings stall. So good to meet Ronnie, K1, Macart, Smallaxe and so many others.
      Looking forward to the next one!

    261. Brian Powell says:

      There were supporters all along the route as well as those on the march.

    262. Bobp says:

      Highland wifie. Know what you mean. Wife and I on our way back to Dorset tomorrow, but what a fantastic day and crowd. So proud to walk with you all.

    263. Tinto Chiel says:

      What a great turn-out today: a tremendous effort from all over Scotland. The two wee knots of sad sacks/Queen’s XI standing forlornly in Union Street (geddit?) just emphasised how outnumbered they are. Without the artificial life-support of the deceitful MSM, who think setting light to baby boxes constitutes journalism, unionism would be dead here.

      Great to see the usual intellectuals/Beautiful People/lobey dossers/windae-hingers and loblolly men/women around the Wings stall today: fair cheered me up.

      Delighted to finally meet K1 and Macart but sorry to have missed Capella, despite Thepnr’s best efforts.

      And speshul mensh to that dashing Young Man About Town, Smallaxe, aka The Don from Palermo, and his two-tone brogues.


    264. Cubby says:

      Colin Alexander = paid to Troll Britnat.

    265. Ian Brotherhood says:

      …and Capella!

      Ah met Capella, so ah did.


    266. Macart says:

      Just back in the door and my dogs are killin’ me, but what a day. Met some old friends with familiar names (you know who you are) and put some new faces to equally familiar names. Big shout right back at ye Ian B. 🙂

      Ronnie’s medicinal tincture definitely a life saver. Also? Dorothy Devine is a born hugger and Smallaxe cuts quite the awesome dash. A huge pleasure to meet all of you today.

      Smiling faces all round and great good humour in the march.

      Bunnet duly doffed. I’m now goin’ to rake the cupboards to see if there’s any of that medicine of Ron’s in the hoose somewhere.

    267. Robin says:

      Cubby 7.47pm

      You seem to be infatuated with these “Trolls”.

      You never post anything constructive, just highlight that somebody is a “Troll”

      I remember another contributor on here who was also infatuated with “Trolls” and he hasn’t been seen since he got kicked off the site.

      Are you a re-incarnation of the said “Heedy”.

      I hope not for everybody else’s sake.

    268. Rock says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      4 May, 2018 at 10:20 pm

      “Rock @ 21:20,

      Do your amazing predictive skills at least manage to stretch forward 12 hours, and tell you if you’re going to be on the march tomorrow?”

      Nick Robinson, I answered that one already:

      Robert J. Sutherland says: (“Nicola Sturgeon: a clarification”):
      2 May, 2018 at 11:26 pm

      “Care to introduce yersel to any Wingers on Saturday?

      (…no, probably not…)”

      Rock (3rd may – “Nicola Sturgeon: a clarification”):

      “I will be right next to Nicola.

      If she cares to turn up.”

    269. Conan the Librarian says:

      Couldn’t get there today as I can barely walk the length o ma hoose the noo, but followed it on the livestream.

    270. Rock says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      5 May, 2018 at 1:28 am

      “1. Rev’s fundraiser, look at how many tried to cause division and devalue the blog, with comments similar to “no wonder lurkers don’t want to post here, you’re all so nasty”.”


      “To pick up what Rev says, all I gave was £5, and posted as much on the first thread.

      Am I ashamed it’s so little? Why should I be? It’s all I can afford at the moment.”

    271. Cubby says:

      Robin 8.02

      Robin are you a troll I hope not for everybody’s sake.

      I am not infatuated with trolls I just like to point out to anyone new reading wings who and what they are. I am not Heedy and I do not engage with trolls as Heedy and others have done – including yourself if I remember correctly. I do however reserve the right to post some gratuitous ad hom as and when.

      Thanks for your comment that I never post anything constructive. How constructive is your post? Sounds like you just like to pick an argument with people. So what is your beef?

    272. Baldeagle58 says:

      Sadly I couldn’t be at the march due to family commitments.
      So great to hear of the high numbers that attended, and the pictures from The National look wonderful.
      Don’t have access to a TV, so I don’t know how the British State Broadcaster reported it….
      Not that I care.
      When I get home tomorrow, I’ll have to see if I can find the RT report on the march.
      (Maybe someone with more tech savvy than myself can post a link to it?)

    273. Cubby says:

      Rock = boring paid to troll Britnat.

    274. Conan the Librarian says:

      @ Cubby

      Robins are aggressive wee bastards.

    275. Lenny Hartley says:

      Wow my feet are sair and my wee collie dug is knackered, biggest by far of the pro Indy marches i have attended and i have been to a few over the decades. I missed the Arran crew, so i waited at start for thrm and it took over 45 mins for them to reach me and they were about half way. Amazing
      Long day first boat from Arran at 0700am just got home but worth every minute.
      Never even attempted to get near the Wings stand, so sorry i missed y’all , next time.

    276. scottieDog says:

      Wee lump in my throat reading posts about the March. Made it to HOOP which was wonderful but unfortunately couldn’t get along to glasgow today. Wow. Must have been a tremendous experience. Sorry I missed it.

    277. HandandShrimp says:

      I bumped into so few Wingers there. It was such a huge event I lost my own group and it took me an hour to find them.

    278. Big Jock says:

      I was hoping to be there but my wife was ill and I had to look after my 2 year old. Gutted but will be at the next one. Does anyone have a video of the yoons doing the nazi salutes. I swear I recognise the one behind! It pays to know your enemy.

    279. Tam the Bam. says:

      Yep…the Wings stall was busy true enough!

      Given the obvious popularity of Wings..I think we should DEMAND that the Rev puts in an appearance next year.
      Whadaya say folks?

    280. yesindyref2 says:


      You poor wee boring lonely thing, all you need is a hug.


    281. stewart fae stoney says:

      the sun has always had zero credibility in my head I have never ever bought it and never will, but this is really scraping the dregs of the barrel, the only thing they have achieved her is how stupid the editor must be to even publish such crap as this. Even the sunday sport story of a london bus found on the moon has more credibility than this pish

    282. Jim Davidson says:

      As a daily lurker and very occasional poster. I would like to say well done all, sorry I missed what looked a great day. From the various photos, videos, news clips I’ve seen there was much enthusiasm, good spirits and happy dugs. Had a chuckle at the photo of the yoons wi their upside Doon flag.
      Must say if I had been there I would have definitely gone to wings stall and put a face to at least some of the names on here, especially if those names were questioning my allegiance to the Indy cause

    283. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      5 May, 2018 at 8:17 pm

      “I do however reserve the right to post some gratuitous ad hom as and when.”

      Rock (25th November 2017 – “The National FAQ”):

      “I post here by the grace of the Rev. Stuart Campbell, whose blog is perhaps the only vehicle of free speech in the entire UK.”

    284. dakk says:

      Sad I didn’t get out shop till half hour so just missed it again.Torture.

      Walked through the Green anyway,since sun came out.

      Nice to see people walking away happy after what seems a great success.

    285. Robin says:

      Cubby = Heedy

      The minute after I accused you of “All you do is point out Trolls”,

      You go and post this:

      Cubby says: 5 May, 2018 at 8:20 pm

      “Rock = boring paid to troll Britnat.”

      You just can’t help yourself Heedy.

    286. yesindyref2 says:

      Robin = boring paid to troll Britnat

    287. frogesque says:


      So proud of yous all today.

      Lets make every city, Royal Burg, town and village YES!

    288. Rocky II says:

      Now that everyone is back home safely;

      £££s Genuine question:

      Does anyone know where the Hundreds of Pounds that is raised at the Wings stall goes???

      Are we all on a share of it???

      Is it for a big well deserved holiday for all Wingers once we win our Independence???

      Just curious.

      The till at the Wings Stall never stops ringing at one of these Marches, so I am asking a perfectly legitimate question:

      Where is all this money going???

      Hopefully someone who runs the Wings Stall can enlighten me.

      Someone has a nice little earner here.

      I would hate to think someone was fleecing their fellow Wingers.

      If no one can answer this question at the moment, I will understand, because they are right in the middle of their march.

      I will ask again later on.

      Have you ever met a skint Treasurer??? Or a Treasurer’s buddy???

    289. Cubby says:

      Robin 9.03

      What’s your beef?

      Starting to think you are another Britnat troll. I was posting long before Heedy stopped posting.

      Are you a Britnat troll or just someone who likes to pick a fight? A tactic of trolls is to clog up this site with a lot of guff. You seem to have this as your agenda. Not a very constructive approach.

      Sensibledave has been keeping a low profile. Are you just sensible in disguise?

      If you are a troll I am not interested in engaging with you. If you are just an argumentative diddy still not interested in engaging with you. So piss off either way and waste someone else’s time.

    290. Croompenstein says:

      Where is all this money going???

      Ronnie spends it on hairy string 🙂

      Come back Heedtracker please… 😀

    291. Cubby says:

      Conan the Librarian 8.22

      Very good and constructive point.

    292. Capella says:

      Back from the march and enjoying reading the comments and the photos. Great to see the Wingers at the Wings stall – Thepnr, Ronnie, Smallaxe, Macart, Ian Brotherhood, K1 and Crazycat. And the famous Cactus too! Think I spotted Irene and Quinie Frae Angus and XSticks too.
      Sorry to have missed Tinto Chiel, and thx Thepnr for looking for him. I thought that Eau de Nil sequined jaiket would have glittered so much he’d be easy to spot. And me in my pink tutu too.

      A great day. Tommy Sheppard’s speech and Craig Murray’s speech both lit up the crowd with enthusiasm to get campaigning again. Theme – we can cetainly govern ourselves much more effectively than anything this shambles of a London plutocracy ever foists on us.
      Campaign for independecne rather than a referendum.

    293. Croompenstein says:

      Where is all this money going???

      Ronnie spends it on hairy string 🙂

    294. Iain says:

      Those fuck wits from a dying media,
      When will they learn that nobody gives a fuck what they say.
      They are a dead media,nobody sensible wants to read yesterday’s news.
      Why don’t they lie down and die.

    295. Brian McHugh says:

      Capella, I’m certain today did wonders for the Yes movement spirits, but the calls for an early Ref do need to be qualified with the knowledge that there will be a political window open to us. The SNP tacticians know this full well. They say a week is a long time in politics and Brexit has been kicked a year or two down the road. When and if the window opens will be brief, but when it does, we hit the ground running.

    296. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This would be the perfect time for any ‘lurkers’ who were at the march today to show yersels!

      If you went anywhere near the WOS stall you’ll have seen how scary we *aren’t* – posting here, even to just say hello, is a lot easier than marching 3 miles, then mixing with potentially militant Cybernats!


    297. Capella says:

      @ Brian McHugh – I agree. It would be daft to announce a referendum over some issue e.g. clause 11 when the Westminster government could just drop that like a hot potato and take the wind out of our sails.

      I actually think Nicola is a better strategist than most and better informed so will pick the right moment. Meantime we can demand that Westminster respects the expressed will of the Scottish people. Which it isn’t at the moment.

    298. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Capella 9.33: a pleasure merely deferred, I hope.

      Went for a grunge and black leather look at the last minute which has already been deplored today by several style-conscious Wingers.

      We must be winning: so many attempts to piss on our parade tonight.

      Never seen so many flags in my life…….

    299. Capella says:

      @ Tinto Chiel – yes and yes! The fleg makers of Scotland are rejoicing tonight. GDP soars.

      There are some good clips from today floating around the internet. Check out Pilar Fernandez twitter which has loads of photos and video – she interviews Keith Brown.

    300. Welsh Sion says:

      Just been watching BBC News Channel with my (English, yoon) in-laws, in Oxford. (Yes, that’s another cross I have to bear …)

      Was holding my breath that there would be a feature on today’s March in Glasgow and that would lead to the usual, ignorant stuff from them, like,

      “The Scottish subsidy junkies had their say in 2014 and said “No”. Time for them to shut up.”

      Fortunately(?) BBC News did me a great service – there wasn’t a single mention of today’s events in Glasgow.

      Not that this will come as any surprise to experienced Wingers and (non-)BBC watchers on here. Thought I’d just mention it all the same, and safe in the knowledge that many of you know I’d have loved to have been with you today.

      Best wishes as always.

      Yours, aye,

      Welsh Sion

    301. Robin says:

      Our english BBC media are happy to report on Trump demonstrations from around America or but ask them to report on an Independence March involving one of the four Nations of the UK and they completely ding it.

    302. Simon Curran says:

      Don’t know what was reported on the news but BBC surprisingly fair comment, even reporting estimates of 80,000 people. Well done to all those who were involved.

    303. Phronesis says:

      Today’s inspirational march defines the YES movement. Inclusive, welcoming,informed and aspirational- exactly the ingredients required for an independent Scotland and we are building it together.

    304. Colin Alexander says:

      I passed the Wings stall at the right hand of the row. It had a Wings flag at either end and a row of flags with a Catalonia pendant at the top.

      It was already very busy looking, so apologies for no coming over to say hello but, it was nice to see youse there.

    305. Indy2 says:

      Check out tomorrow’s front page picture from the “Indy Supporting” Sunday Herald.

      It wouldn’t be out of place in the Daily Mail.

    306. Colin Alexander says:
      5 May, 2018 at 11:28 pm
      I passed the Wings stall at the right hand of the row. It had a Wings flag at either end and a row of flags with a Catalonia pendant at the top.

      It was already very busy looking, so apologies for no coming over to say hello but, it was nice to see youse there.

      Deary diary me. So truthful comment. A load of shite. With everyone knowing what you are, to have proved them wrong YOU introducing yourself as Colin Alexander etc etc.

    307. Fred says:

      @ Rocky II, probably none of your business!

      A big hand for Sandra White MSP who walked that today & joined our company in the pub! A harder route for the auld yins than starting at the Botanics.

    308. Jock McDonnell says:

      Apparently there were marches and protests in Paris and Moscow today.
      Not sure if anything happened anywhere else, rt says there was a march in Glasgow but that’s obviously fake news.

    309. Colin Alexander says:

      The stewards told us not to react to the Union Jack rent-a-mob. Not that we would but, it’s good the stewards reminded people anyway.

      “What do we want: Independence! When do we want it? Now!”

      As I said earlier, one wee Unionist group had their upside down UJ flag, so that made me and others have a wee laugh more than anything.

      Any links to Craig Murray’s speech? I had things to do, so wasn’t at the Green for very long after the march.

    310. Proud Cybernat says:

      Amazing scenes today. Met loads of smashing people. Hope lots of you got a bundle of ‘BBC Misreporting Scotland’ stickers which I dropped off at the Wings stall today.

      You know what to do with them.


    311. Rocky II says:


      If no one from the Wings Stall is going to tell me where all the money raised today goes, then could somebody who organised the Wings Stall tell us how much was collected today?

      Why are you being so secretive about the amount of cash that was raised today?

      Was it a four figure sum and if so, where does it go.

      One or two people should not benefit from using the Wings name for their own personal gain.

      That is just not on. That is stealing “fae yer ain folk”.

      So please can someone come forward and tell me exactly where the Wings cash that was raised today is?

    312. Croompenstein says:

      I already told you that Ronnie spends it on hairy string are your een painted on ?

    313. A2 says:

      Some one really has to do the same test on a copy of the sun…
      I think we may find that Every single Sun reader is putting themselves at grave Risk by caving a copy in their home or workplace.

    314. smithie says:

      Rocky II says:
      5 May, 2018 at 9:10 pm

      Now that everyone is back home safely;

      Ah Bless, obviously you are a newbie to this site?
      For us regulars we collect any money we can for……well just whatever, i mean if we give it to the Rev he will just spend it on Heroin and some sweeties so we have to look after him…so chill man it’s all cool

    315. Rocky II says:


      “For us regulars”,,,I have never heard of you Smithie.

      And if everybody was as thick as you, then those holding the cash raised at the Wings Stall today will be laughing all the way to THEIR Bank Accounts.

      I am asking a Legit question, where is the money that was raised today under the “Wings” Banner and what was the total.????

      Why the Secrecy?

    316. yesindyref2 says:

      Get your covetous greedy eyes off my holiday money 🙁

    317. dakk says:

      Welsh Sion says:
      5 May, 2018 at 10:38 pm
      Just been watching BBC News Channel with my (English, yoon) in-laws, in Oxford. (Yes, that’s another cross I have to bear …)

      Lol.Know the feeling my friend.

      I have to endure a 90% Britnat clientele of the same ilk day in day out in my salon in the Yoon enclave of Jordanhill or I would be on the streets.

      If I didn’t have the patience of Job I’d have run amok years ago.

    318. smithie says:

      Hey ive never heard of me neither or in fact of YOU either so what you bleating about? ….if YOU have a problem about YOUR money that you donated then ask Stuart and stop pissing your pants on here

    319. Dr Jim says:

      We’re saving up for WMDs and we’re nearly there
      apparently if you’ve got them people talk to you in a civilised manner

      It’s along the *walk softly but carry a big stick* philosophy
      Worked for Kim jong il or un or joon, you know, that guy

    320. yesindyref2 says:

      Butt-faced Charlie to Tango Uniform 1 – I have the luminous paint for the target, I repeat, I have the target painted.

    321. Tam the Bam. says:

      Indy2 @ 11-29pm

      That Sunday Herald article is penned by Paul Hutcheon.Par for the course for that wee rodent.

      I refuse to buy this supposedly indy-supporting rag.As others have commented in the past..I refuse to pay the wages for the likes of Leask,Gordon and Hutcheon.

    322. Dr Jim says:

      Judging by recent performance the Sunday Herald is as pro indy as Ruth Davidson
      Which is quite puzzling in a way because I hear Prince Charles secret letters to the English government say Scotland should be autonomous, and apparently his daddy thinks so too as did his Uncle Louis

      It’ll all come out

    323. Hamish100 says:

      rocky 11

      wheres the money whers the money …..

      Its no yours so bugger off troll

    324. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robin says: 5 May, 2018 at 10:46 pm:

      Our english BBC media are happy to report on Trump demonstrations from around America or but ask them to report on an Independence March involving one of the four Nations of the UK and they completely ding it.”

      “To be strictly accurate, Robin, there are but two nations in the United KINGDOM, as it is exactly what its name say it is a KINGDOM. There are indeed, though, four countries in the United KINGDOM, and three of them were integral parts of the Kingdom of England with Wales being annexed by the Statute of Rhuddlan in 1284 and all Ireland annexed by the Crown of Ireland Act of 1542. Neither Scotland, as country or Kingdom, was annexed by the Kingdom of England. Which was why there was the failed attempted Union of the Crowns in 1603 and the forced Treaty of Union of 1706/7

      The proof of that statement is clearly the reason that the Kingdom of England Parliament, (aided by the monarchy that they shared with Scotland from 1603 until their, “Glorious Revolution”, in 1688), when the three part Kingdom of England became a Constitutional Monarchy but obviously could not legally apply the rebellious English Parliament’s decisions to depose their monarchy and invite in two others in their place. Because in 1603, 1688 and until 1706/7 Scotland was still the independent Kingdom of Scotland.

      That was why the Westminster Establishment had their undercover agents, William Paterson and Danial Defoe, working undercover in Edinburgh and instigating the Darien Expedition and blackmailing, threatening and buying the Scottish Landowners who were also the Scots Parliamentarians.

      It doesn’t take a Steven Hawking brain to figure out that the reason there was a Treaty of Union in 1706/7 was because their claims of a, “Union of the Crowns”, in 1603 had not united the two kingdoms.

      That was, and still is, why there is a bipartite United Kingdom today.

      Trouble is it has never operated as a United Kingdom but that was not apparent to many Scots but should have become crystal clear when Westminster forced through, “Devolution”, but only devolved Westminster’s claimed powers to three of the four countries. Thus making Westminster the unelected as such Parliament of the COUNTRY of England.

      As if that were not enough to make clear what Westminster were up to they then brought in EVEL to emphasise that Westminster was the de facto Parliament of the Country of England = but how many of the people of Scotland realise that is the truth even today?

      Any other country or kingdom in the World would have taken back their independence because of the above facts alone – even if Westminster hadn’t been bleeding Scotland dry.

      No one in the entire World can beat The Westminster Establishment as an oppressive brainwashing abusive overlord.

      Not the Kremlin, not the Whitehouse and none of the Worlds dictators because there has been an elite ruling class based in the south east of what is now England since the Romans arrived in Britain in around 54 BC. They have had lots of practice.

    325. Colin Alexander says:

      James Caithness

      Saturday was about supporting Scotland’s independence. I was happy to do that along with many SNP supporters – and others who are not SNP.

      This was not about the SNP or Wings. This was:


      I showed my true colours. Actions speak louder than words:

      I marched to show my support for Scotland’s independence.

      But, it’s not just about me, or the many thousands of others who marched on Saturday.

      This is for all Scotland’s people and our hope for a better future free from Westminster’s mis-rule in this iniquitous Union.

      YES! AYE!

    326. twathater says:

      Like other posters I was there today with my wife ( boss ) and it was MAGICAL , the camaraderie , love , bonhomie was infectious , like others I am aching all over but man it was worth it . I would also like to offer my thanks and gratitude to the organisers and volunteers for allowing us to show the world that we are serious about ditching this despicable union

      Went over to the WINGS stall a few times but couldn’t get near it due to the happy hordes , maybe next time

      Watched the polis convince unionists on the broomielaw they would be better utilising their time elsewhere

      Scotland your pride and indefatigability shone through today we will WIN THIS

    327. Ghillie says:

      What a beautiful sight, all the thousands of Saltires, like a carpet of blue bells =)

      Thank you all for marching for Scotland’s Independence 🙂

      Thank you for all the photos and links.

      Scotland truly is on her Road to Independence =)

    328. Mary miles says:

      Hi from Tassie:

      Wonderful turnout to the Glasgow March – I do wish I could have been there waving my Saltire! It hangs in my study here in Tasmania!

      Somehow I feel the dream I had so many years ago of an Independent Scotland isn’t too far off. So many good people working towards this goal! For all us “oldies” hopefully we will all see it soon!

      Love to everyone working for an Independent Scotland – I follow the progress every day!

    329. Thepnr says:

      @Rocky II

      Did you miss my first post?

      All the money raised was spent on beer, fags and flat screen telly’s. I’m no gonnae tell you again as your wasting everbody’s time.

      Have a nice day like we did 🙂

    330. Robert Louis says:

      Dear Sunday Herald,

      All Scotland knows just why your so-called ‘news’ paper is going down the toilet. Yesterday, in your home city of Glasgow, their was a peaceful march and rally for Scottish independence. Also present on a street corner were a handful (maybe 20-30) bigots shouting abuse, waving the union jack and giving nazi salutes. Estimates suggest their were likely 40,000 peaceful marchers for Scottish independence.

      Russia Today, on their NEWS website, have pictures that truly represent the situation, and the event overall, but your tawdry wee rag, has chosen an image clearly designed to misrepresent events, giving greater emphasis to the English union jack waving, nazi saluting, pro-English rule, fruitcakes.

      That is why more and more Scots no longer buy your tawdry, so-called ‘news’ paper.

      Time you took a good look in the mirror and started having a bit more respect for your own country and its people, instead of dancing a London-inspired pro unionist jig.


    331. gerry parker says:

      Ian Brotherhood at 9:50 pm.
      Was it only 3 miles Ian, I must be getting old, felt more like 10. 🙂
      Woke at 5:30 this morning as fresh as a 5 day old fish. Working today as I swapped shifts to be there yesterday.

      Great to see you yesterday, caught up with a few people I hadn’t seen for some time, and met some new ones too.

    332. sassenach says:

      What Robert Louis says at 7-16am.

      Indy supporting my ar$e!

      Can’t even be neutral, and it used to be my ‘daily of choice’ (Ok that was back in the 1980s!).

    333. Vestas says:

      Haggerty is news editor of the Sunday Herald. Enough said.

    334. Dorothy Devine says:

      Jings! What a crackin photo in the Sunday herald – makes me think they were poised there trying to incite trouble and trouble was there none – they must be disappointed.

      They could have stood at the corner of Renfield street and had a glorious photo of thousands of Saltires , Lion Rampants , Catalonian and even Kenyan flags but no!

      Well done the Herald mob , I’m sure your circulation figures are about to sink even further.

      As for the mob at Pacific Quay – both sides- they are an embarrassment to Scotland and themselves.

      As a P.S when someone over explains their attendance at a function , it makes me think they weren’t there – I know because I use to try it at large lectures when I had found a more attractive pursuit!

      P.P.S I think Ronnie has given up on the hairy string and moved on better things that spread sunshine wider!

    335. stu mac says:

      As has been mentioned quite a lot of times BTL on this blog, the Sunday Herald got a new editor a while back and since then has been turning into a pro-union rag. No one should be surprised at these kind of stories from it (only surprise is the very occasional very mild sort of pro-indy article they print to keep up a pretence they haven’t changed).

    336. Dorothy Devine says:

      The Guardian on-line is carrying a not too bad piece on the march.

    337. Dorothy Devine says:

      Maybe next time the organisers could set the route for a swing down Finnieston Street over the Squinty bridge and a wee silent “tribute’ to the BBBC and STV?

      Just a thought, it might help the BBBC especially to be aware of any activity and prevent the fingers in ears type coverage.

    338. Highland Wifie says:

      Think Ms Haggerty may not last long in this job. But which will last longer I wonder, herself or the Sunday Herald. Answers on a postcard.

    339. Famous15 says:

      @Rockyii are you the guy who just got the freelance job at the Sun having featured in such well known publications as the Daily Sport. How did they get that bus on the moon?

      Next stop an FFI,but to what?

      We’re no daft .

    340. Marker Post says:

      I had a brain wave this morning, and started searching around on the web, but couldn’t find anything.

      Someone (who? Yes Scotland could resurrect and administer it?) should set up an Independence Fund now. Don’t wait for a 2nd Referendum to be called. Just set up a fund now, with the stated aim that funds will be kept and used for a second referendum whenever that happens to be. All independence supporters can donate to it. I for one would set up a monthly direct debit. Every Westminster disaster would elicit another flurry of contributions, every sneer from Jackie Bird would add a few hundred quid, every picture of a baby box going up in flames a few thousand.

      After a while, the running totals would have to be reported in the MSM. “Headline news: The Independence Fund last night topped £5 million”; “Headline news: the Independence Fund had it’s biggest daily gain yesterday as Michael Gove replaced Theresa May as Prime Minister”; “Headline news: the Independence Fund saw a surge of donations yesterday as the Supreme Court declared the Scottish government’s Brexit Bill illegal”

    341. ronnie anderson says:

      We’re in the Money we’re in the Money The Wings Stall Keeps Rolling Along.

      To the constipated Troll the Wings stall auditor ( Betty Boop & assistants Irene King & Wee Anne Jenkins ) conform to strict accounting rules , every time the Till Rings a Lurker gains their Wings so’s quite a few Lurkers are now Flying high today ( an it wiznae the Old Pulteney ) what didded it ( that was the Raffle Prize downed by many throats ( fek lost the receipt ) .

      There will be ah full accounting at ah later date That 1st round of Drinks at the Clutha wiz expensive as wiz the 2nd & 3rd but Many Thanks to Malcolm & Staff for the speedy service , ah don’t think we can stretch to buying that Wide Screen TV as the PnR say’s as disaster struck the Wings auditor ( her picel broke ) it got jammed under the weight of the till , ah did think yesterday christmas hud come early ah heard Jingle Bells playing aw day .

      Onnyhows monies made by the Wings Stall are ah inconsequential part of our activities . We spread the Fraternity an Camaraderie of Wings & the Wider YES Movement an a Big Dose of Abuse ( We hiv the them laughfing in the que ) to give us money Many Thanks to our Supporters & Friend who keep rolling up to donate .

      WE hope that everybody hud a great day & WE look forward to seeing You’s Lovely Peoples at the Dumfries Rally & get some more of your lovely mulla as the introduction of that alcohol unit pricing has made a significant dent in oor Bar bill.

      Any & all complaints will be dealt with by Rev Stuart Campbell ( in letter written in longhand ) nain of this easy E mailing piss .

      Btw ah good suggestion was made by Cactus in that we hiv ah day oot at M & Ds in Strathclyde Park . Betty better buy ah bigger pincel ah’ll appy fur ah Credit caird cause aw they £ pound coins ur to heavy tae carrie aboot aw day .

    342. Ignore the MSM,

      they will distort anything pro Scotland,

      don`t waste another breath on wondering what the MSM will do/say,

      they are anathema/abomination,

      celebrate Scotland`s multi cultural unity in our Freedom,

      concentrate on and support New Media (except the leftard Bella).

    343. Bill McLean says:

      Many thanks to and congratulations to all who attended the march and maintained the highest standard of behaviour which unionists must hate as much as they hate the “baby box”. Useless charlatans and cowards the lot of them who continue to try to destroy their own nation favour of abusive masters. Keep up the good work! Scotland and our people will soon be free of the madhouse at Westminster,

    344. ronnie anderson says:

      Btw David Milligan ( Scot2. scot & league of Sovereign Scots ) donated £20 to the Wings crowdfunder , that will be passed on to the Rev this week ( Betty make a note of that in your ledger the book wan, no the Winger Ledger .

    345. jdman says:

      Hahahaha nice one Ronnie,
      but I cant get her out of bed this morning!
      Great to see everybody yesterday,
      but I have to confess I have a sincere apoloy to make to Macart and Tinto Chiel
      my memory being what it is(SHOCKING)Ihad to ask them to remind me who they were,
      a sincere apology guys but so happy to have caught up with you again.

    346. Bill McLean says:

      Oh, and I meant to write, ignore the media – destroyers of democracy and decency and deniers of truth. They have had their day!

    347. winifred mccartney says:

      Stopped getting daily Herald a long time ago but thought I would give sunday Herald a go – todays is the last one ever. I thought it was pro indy – you would never have guessed – close up pics of rally – you only need close up when it is TM in front of a barn or RD addressing tory conference.

      Angela Haggerty is at the very best luke warm on indy and just damns with faint praise. Her article about baby boxes is not accurate nor fair. Her new job will last as long as the paper which wont be long now.

    348. jdman says:

      “Why the Secrecy”?
      Because your being a twat,
      thats why.

    349. HandandShrimp says:

      A good natured happy march and what is worse we were doing it deliberately. 🙂

      It tickled me that the counterdemo consisted of a couple of dozen people who would have had to stay there to watch an endless sea of Saltires bounce joyfully past.

      My question to them would be “if the Onion Flag makes you so happy why did you look so agitated and angry”?

      Glad they failed in any attempt at provocation. The police presence was very light for such a huge march but they were at key street junctions and had more than enough at the bottom of Union Street to ensure our friends behaved.

    350. Macart says:

      @John King

      You meet a lot of people John. That’s a lot of faces to tie to names over the past few years. 🙂

      Cracking day had by all.

      On the meeja? Doesn’t matter what the Scottish media do or say today. It only matters what people saw and experienced for themselves. Glasgow was awesome and the support lining the route from every street, hingin’ oot the windaes, from passing and (sorry) queued motorists was amazing. There was even one bonnie lass in a wedding dress waving as we passed. A spring bride? Singing, smiling, peaceful. A joy. It’s how it should be.

      Regardless, the heart of a city saw the reality and no amount of spin can change that.

    351. H Scott says:

      Today is the last time I will buy a Sunday Herald.

    352. mumsyhugs says:

      Well done everyone! Couldn’t make it this year – but hubbie and large family contingent fae Buckie did and are all buzzing – jealous so I am! My turn next time! 🙂

    353. gus1940 says:

      It makes one wonder just how much credence should be given to opinion polls.

    354. inky pic says:

      is anyone still buying that paper?

    355. Les Wilson says:

      Yup, yesterday was a great statement in many ways, It was proof that not only is Indy wanted (not the Media view obv.) No trouble despite a few Unionist loonies (and it was a few), I think they too were gobsmacked by the size of the march.

      We came from all over,and were all a great happy people. The police had no problem with yoons.

      I too went over to the Wings stall, but it was mobbed, I was going to say hello to the Wingers doing a good job, but they were all just too busy. I was also impressed by the fact that many, and I mean many of the older generation who were there including myself. Everyone was in high spirits and the whole thing was well organised, so kudos to those who put it all together.

      The number of flags were hugely impressive. The huge number of people was hard to take in.
      My thanks to the Carluke SNP Branch, who organised a bus and were all definitely up for it. My own branch had not done anything I know of, so I was grateful to get on the bus with, the nice people of that branch, who made me welcome.

      Well done everyone involved, the biggest Indy march ever, a very good sign and a poke in the eye for the media.

    356. HandandShrimp says:


      Aye what surprised me was the number of smiling people waving, tooting and hingin fae windows showing their support. I have no idea how many actually marched but thousands more showed their support along the way. That is what made the tiny pimple at the bottom of Union Street so funny. As soon as we were around the corner it was back to happy people taking snaps and waving to us.

      I was also taken by surprise as to how many were already at Glasgow Green when we got there. We were quite near the front and I could just about see the front on long stretches like St Vincent Street but there were thousands who clearly just went straight to Glasgow Green. Which is fair enough it was a good walk from Kelvingrove 🙂

    357. Colin Alexander says:

      Re: ongoing debate about whether the SNP should embrace a second EU-Ref if pro-EU MPs in the UK parliament hoped to win such a vote with SNP help.

      If it were me:

      My response would be:

      Were the MPs elected on a EU-Ref2 mandate? If a majority were not, then there should not be an EU-Ref2.

      We already know they were not elected on EU-Ref2 mandates.

      The SNP and Green MSPs were elected on an Indyref mandate. They then voted to hold another Indyref.

      So, the die is cast.

      No EU-Ref2. It’s time for indyref first ( even though my preferred option is indy by direct democratic election mandate without any need for an indyref).

      Once the indy question has been answered, then the other questions can be asked, such as EU membership or alternatives.

    358. 10/30 says:

      Does anyone know the number of bikers that attended. Nipped out behind the stage to watch them when they arrive…..impressive!

    359. Macart says:


      Did you catch the fella hanging out of his window, with I think it was a trombone, playing by yon bonnie banks? My section of the march spontaneously broke into full song in accompaniment, much applause and cheering afterwards. 🙂

    360. Dek says:

      Robert Louis at 7.16am for the definitive take on the Sunday Herald . The federalism dead duck front page a couple of weeks ago and now this should confirm it for any willing up until now, to have given it the benefit of the doubt .

    361. Liz g says:

      10/30 @ 10.12
      Over 200 bikers

    362. Tinto Chiel says:

      @John King 9.32: no apologies necessary, John. I passed you twice at the HOOP protest before your name came to me. We need more meetings and then our memories would be better (or maybe not if alcohol is partaken of).

      Lovely atmosphere yesterday and the wee trogs in Union Street were so sad by contrast.

      I think the Sunday Herald front page makes it clear where its sympathies lie, which is nice. I haven’t bought it since the SP elections and don’t miss it at all.

    363. Footsoldier says:

      STV is just as bad as the BBC. Clicking on STV brings up Top Stories and no mention at all.

      Clicking in Scotland brings up 3 location choices but only mentioned in Glasgow & West but nevertheless relegated to a smaller picture below a much larger sex workers rally.

      Clicking on UK no mention. The International section no mention but a demo against violence in India is worthy of a slot.

      Lastly clicking on Politics brings up political top stories but pest control in schools is given the biggest exposure with the march relegated to a further down smaller picture.

      Pretty much say it all about STV.

    364. GrahamB says:

      I don’t expect to read about an incident we saw at yesterday’s march reported anywhere.
      Just where we came out of Kelvin Way on to the foot of University Avenue a wee white car with a black roof drove at speed towards the marchers crossing the road before slamming on its brakes at the last moment. A steward and two policewomen ran over to it but we were about 30 yards away so didn’t hear what exchanges there were between the police and the driver. We did hear someone say there were children in the car. As we turned into Gibson Street we saw the car heading up the hill on University Avenue so the driver could only have been told off for his/her action which was a blatant attempt to frighten or injure the marchers.
      If it had been an Orange Walk that had been attacked like that the car and driver would most likely have been trashed.

    365. HandandShrimp says:


      Does anyone use STV as a news source? It is only when someone mentions it that I remember it exists. I think a couple of interns do it on an iPad. It certainly isn’t journalism.

    366. MJT says:

      What’s the rationale behind that Sunday Herald front page?

      As we headed down past that small group of Union Jack waving people, folks were saying, ‘be nice to them, be nice to them’ – there was nae bother where we were, which was beside the big Unicorn, who was hilarious, all day.

      I dont think i’ve ever been with and around so many good natured people. You see it in the faces, in the eyes, the way people carry themselves, there was nothing but love and decency and good spirits. That’s infectuous.

      ‘It wasnae me is a great tune’ – gonna gie that a spin the morra. Craig Murray, gave a really good speech…with curteous pause for the bikers.

      At the start of the march, on Kelvin Way, a woman said there was 36 thousand estimated. But, there were loads of folk still behind me, more folk joined the march, and, some folk went straight to Glasgow Green. So when the 36k figure was given, the numbers werenae ‘all in’. When i got to the Green, thats when i checked twitter and saw the 80-90k polis estimates.

    367. HandandShrimp says:


      I saw them in the flat window. There were two or three playing. There were drummers near us so I couldn’t hear what they were doing.

    368. gerry parker says:

      Jdman, I managed to get The PNR and x sticks mixed up john, this auld age thing disnae come by itself. From above I think around 200 bikers were there. Wings stall pretty crowded, managed a quick word with Ronnie, Jim fae Troon and Irene, great work folks. Didn’t see what was available for people to take away, suggested at one time we print out Stu’s articles to give to people who don’t have Internet access.

      Looks like the YES campaign is kicking off by itself by popular demand.

    369. Effijy says:

      Used in Finland for many years, baby boxes have drastically reduced instances of sudden infant death syndrome.

      This statement is undeniable as it covers several decades of data over the length and breadth of a nation. From that, we can deduce that the Sun, The Tory Government, and all the main Westminster parties want to stop the supply of Scottish Baby Boxes that they can take comfort in
      Seeing Scottish Infant mortality rates escalate.

      The Bastards want to kill off our Kids as our youth has shown the desire to control their own destiny
      And sever all ties with the corrupt immoral beasts that claim be a UK government.

    370. Cubby says:

      I weaned myself off reading newspapers a long time ago. It’s not that difficult. I buy the occasional national. The whole industry is against independence. Does not surprise me re the Sunday Herald. The Sun used to support the SNP – hard to believe nowadays. Some people think the Record may move to support independence. All these papers will let you down and turn against independence. Do not give them your money or support.

      I saw the Captain Haggarty on telly twice – strongly supported the Tories on both occasions. Let’s be clear anyone who can do this is a fake independence supporter and she is a TORY. She has used the YES movement to advance her career. Do not buy the SUNDAY HERALD. Do not buy any of these rags.

    371. Liz g says:

      Graham B @ 10.31
      I saw that too.
      But I don’t think it was an “attack” as such.
      jist one of those idiotic drivers who will barge through whenever they think they see a gap,and there’s only no accident because everyone else avoided it!
      We have all seen them,but yes your right about a different reaction from an Orange march….. But that’s why they don’t get the light touch escort from the police that we do,and no natural gaps (or in this case a thinning of the line) are allowed to form.

    372. Dr Jim says:

      More than irresponsible:

      I believe the newspapers use of these cleverly angled pictures giving the impression of British nationalists protesting in numbers is to encourage more British nationalist engagement in causing trouble to help create the Ulsterisation of Scotland that Ruth Davidson and her chums in the media desperately want

      Headline *Ugly clashes* and such like would be the ideal case for the kind of scenario they want to see happen, idiots will believe it and papers will sell more or their rubbish by making things seem as bad as possible and it’ll be all because Scottish nationalists and the SNP are really really Baad

      That just shows to what depths the Britnats will plumb to achieve their desired result

    373. Tam the Bam. says:

      Wow!!!…..Quick peeps!…..Glasgow Indymarch is to be covered on Politics Scotland (after the inevitable weekly dig @ Police Scotland of course!).

    374. mr thms says:

      The high turnout for the ‘All Under One Banner’ pro-independence march and the people who lined the streets, exceeded the highest expectations of its organisers. It was just an amazing sight. I have been comparing my photos from yesterday’s march with my photos from the previous march and it is incredible just how big the event has become. For the next march, the organisers may want to consider providing facilities for broadcasters and journalists from around the world wanting to cover it, a bigger stage, giant screens for speakers, bigger marquees, toilet facilities and a fun-fair for the children.

    375. galamcennalath says:

      This tweet on WoS Twitter hot my attention ..

      “Mhairi Hunter
      Not entirely sure what the point would be in campaigning for a 2nd EU Ref here. Everyone knows Scotland would vote Remain again. It’s probably up to politicians down south on this one. Chances of them getting their act together are not high imo.”

      On the face of it, this is very true. I’d expect 70% Remain from Scotland.

      However, given that the result UK wide might be Leave again, it would be worth laying out clear and unambiguous consequences should an EURef2 result mean WM would still try to drag Scotland out against her wishes.

      This could be played in various ways ….

      i) make clear Scotland would pursue single market membership
      ii) or, ScotRef will be automatically called if the EU result is the same
      iii) or, even be bold and say it would be a mandate for Indy

    376. ronnie anderson says:

      Aye Gerry Parker it was ah quick word i was going to ask you to come into the stall to serve ( that would reignite the auld grey matter ) First ever Wings Stall Wings in Strathclyde Park (Chef) Gerry Parker / Patrician & Wife ( foot massages Jan ) / the then Rab the Doubter ( later to be Bob Sinclair ) The Man in the Jar & and since those early days the Wings Stall Volunteers step up to help out or Press ganged would be a more appropriate terminology.

      So’s Many Thanks to aw You’s Wonderful Peoples that have kept the Wing’s Stall going ( if ma memory serve’s me correctly I did say that at close of play yesterday ) if ah did am gon overboard wie the plawdit’s an that’s no in ma nature .

    377. Proud Cybernat says:

      The march yesterday was the biggest in Scotland in a very long time. No question. And it was the biggest (thus far) because the archers all knew something–our parliament which we fought for so long to regain is under serious threat from London.

      Yesterday was a statement to London and Theresa May: “Keep Yer Paws Aff Oor Parliament.”

      And you know, I don’t think they’ll listen and a considerable part of me hopes the buggers WON’T listen to that message we sent them yesterday. The more they try to devalue the devolution settlement, the will of the people of Scotland, then the more those who supported devo will realise you cannot trust a Tory, devo is dead and the ONLY way forward now is to fully embrace Indy.

      It’s GAME ON peeps.

    378. Proud Cybernat says:

      “archers”? Hmm – “marchers”. Of course.

    379. Fred says:

      Stopped the Sunday Herald when AH shoved her oar in! Get a lottery ticket instead!

      Next time a couple of pipe bands wouldn’t go amiss eh?

    380. PacMan says:

      re Sunday Herald pic

      There wasn’t more than a dozen of the RBW Meanies with their Union Jacks at Union Street. They were clumped together with large flags out in prominence. A close photo shot at a certain angle, which the Herald did, gave the impression there was more.

      From what I saw, there was many more in the surrounding area with Rangers scarves on. Not sure if there were a match on but they soon left which I can only gather was either due to disappointment that they didn’t get a reaction from the marchers and/or bemusement at the good-natured boisterous of the whole event.

    381. ronnie anderson says:

      Dorothy Devine The libation was that good yesterday that BDTT wiz sooking the neck of the bottle efter it wiz empty .

    382. louis.b.argyll says:

      Graham b,

      Actually saw the incident you refer to live on indylive-thing, just when I tuned in!

      Could hear female voices complaining, prob just Road rage.

    383. harry mcaye says:

      It’s almost as if the editor of the Sunday Herald WANTS it to go under. Never even glance it now after buying it every week during and after the referendum campaign.

    384. Andy smith says:

      Great day yesterday, best match yet. Special mention must be made to the bride-to-be,who emerged from bridal shop with Saltire to give her support, also the young couple in the tenement flat with the megaphone stirring up the marchers.
      And to the elderly, many using walking sticks who completed the entire route.
      Proud cybernat , I still had quite a few BBC misreporting stickers i believe you sent me last year, I handed a lot of these out to marchers i met at the green and in pub afterwards.

    385. Tam the Bam. says:

      You just KNOW that anytime the bbc give coverage to an Independence subject i.e. AUOB INDYMARCH….then they rub their hands with glee at the opportunity to smear and denigrate.

      First of all ..who do they invite to comment?…Arch SNP hater-in-chief Katie Grant and the rodent Hutcheon..a scribbler for the non-indy supporting Sunday Herald…’yes the event was well attended but their weren’t millions were there?’….not even going waste my keyboard pads over anything Grant said.

    386. Liz g says:

      Oh FFS….
      Sum Wummin on Sunday Politics sayin …
      The Yes movement are not just the SNP (ok true enough)
      They all just one one thing (obviously)
      Then she says the problem is….
      If they got what they wanted ( Indy)…
      Said it with a straight face too!

    387. Tam the Bam. says:

      Woops…before the grammar/spelling police pull me up…..should have read there not their.Pedantic moment over.

    388. starlaw says:

      Dr Jim 11-34

      Studying the pictures of the Unionist rent a mob it becomes clear that these people were placed exactly there for what you described. This mob were in perfect position to allow camera shots from above from both the side, and from the opposite side of the road, the any marchers had stopped for the slightest few seconds to confront these cretins the close up photo’s from across and above the road would have shown these cretins to be holding back the entire march.
      The positioning of this crowd had been worked out in advance… I wonder who would have spent time doing this. Rangers supporters in the area were probably just heading to the Rangers match.

    389. MJT says:

      @Pac Man

      Aye the Gers had a home game on. I bumped into a few in Cessnock…got some funny looks, but i was wearing a shiny green jaicket with a pink yes badge.

      I agree with folk suggesting mare stuff to do in the green post march. Logistics and money might be an issue, but I’d like to see stuff ‘for the kids’ an i was chokin on some Scottish Hip Hop, and mibbe a wee dance tent.

      They have marching season, we should have Yestival season, with marches.

    390. Cubby says:

      Just watched The British Nationalist Chat Show (also known as politics Scotland).

      First up – Prof Curtice talking up the Labour Party and running down the SNP. Peddling the old line that a vote for the snp lets in the Tories at a Gen Election. What sort of expert is he – the snp do not support the Tories Curtice – you know this – therefore you are just a propagandist for the Britnats.
      A vote for the Tories lets in the Tories Curtice. Try telling the truth.

      Next up – Paul Hutcheon ( from the Herald) and the obnoxious Katie Grant (from HELL). A couple of Britnats.
      Hutcheon – “a fairly well attended demo in Glasgow”. Grant ” the snp always overestimate the numbers”. ” these demos mean nothing there are millions who did not attend”. Also more talk about division in the indepence movement.

      Our media is a national disgrace. Someone should tell Katie Grant that she is on Politics SCOTLAND. All she talked about was British this and British that. A perfect example of a British colonial. Grant why don’t you piss off back to England. You are anti Scottish and not welcome in Scotland.

    391. mr thms says:

      Politics Scotland showing clips of the ‘All Under One Banner’ march, but their two guest panellists proceeded to rubbish it. Seems there were millions who didn’t go and those that did fancied a day out in Glasgow. BBC obviously using reverse psychology to get more people to attend the next one.

    392. Proud Cybernat says:

      Grant “the snp always overestimate the numbers”.

      Ignore the BritNat fool. This wasn’t an SNP event and she damn well knows it wasn’t – it was organised by the grassroots AUOB. People in the West End and in Glasgow city centre who witnessed the march yesterday with their own eyes will know Grant was talking a pile of mince. And they’ll wonder why the BBC are letting her do so. More eyes opened to BBC misinformation.

    393. Dr Jim says:

      OBFA,Police Scotland, Baby boxes, Shona Robison on health, Tax, the Bridge,Renewable energy, in fact everything the SNP has changed for the better the Britnats want changed back to the English way that never worked for Scotland

      Coz we all want to be better together apparently

      Notice how the Britnats never offer any *NEW* ideas, just make it the same as it was is all they ever offer

      Politics Scotland needs a new name *This is a Union party political broadcast* would be more apt

    394. schrodingers cat says:

      im sorry i couldnt make the march yesterday, unavoidable prior commitments. it would have been good to meet up with you again.

      what i will say about the march is that it has re enforced my belief that when indyref2 kicks off in earnest I expect that all yes groups will see a huge increase in the number of activists from indyref1.

      it is great to be pat of a large crowd, but successful activists groups should be about 50 max. If you find yourself standing in a group of 200-300 people, you will need to split. you must self organise, no one else will do it for you.

      re- SP scotland, they all looked calm but you could see an underlying uncomfortableness due to the huge size of the crowd. as someone tweeted yesterday, the yes movement is the biggest grass roots political organisation in Scotland. Ever.

      best bit when that loathsome female journo said that the snp had lied about the figures and brewer smacked her down saying it wasnt the snp but the organisers. 🙂

    395. louis.b.argyll says:

      There will not be a referendum on EU withdrawal terms. It would be impossible to even work out how the question would be phrased, to allow ignorant voters a chance at knowing what options ‘mean’.
      -Brexit was advisory only. Lib Dems are hopeless liars, if there’s a majority in Westminster supporting another EU Ref, surely same majority could have stopped Brexit..had Labour wanted to resist it.

    396. jfngw says:

      Not interested in another EURef that’s classed as a UKRef, when even if 100% of Scots vote to remain they can still be taken out. It’s effectively the same as clause 11, no matter what you vote it is consent.

    397. galamcennalath says:

      Media full of Tories debating Customs Union or nay. Or what type of customs arrangement? None, or full?

      Customs Union is a hardish Brexit. Not what Scotland wants or needs.

      Read this FT ariticle from over a year ago to find out what a border with customs union might be like. Scary. Especially for fresh food.

    398. schrodingers cat says:

      interesssting point from curtice, tories and labour would refuse a section 30.

      if they did, is there a legal challenge we could make?

      i didnt like salmond signing the edinburgh agreement at the time cos i thought it would create a prescident,

      then again, the euref didnt get a s30?

    399. louis.b.argyll says:

      When we exit the EU,
      When The Scottish Parliament is weakened,
      When Labour implode in England,
      When Scottish Independence is denied,
      When Tories rule in perpetuity,
      When the young don’t recognise democracy,
      When academics are owned by corporations,
      When the poor are owned by the rich,
      When the shit hits the fan..

      Only then will Professor Curtice’s job be done.

      (along with his entire privileged generation of fascist little Englanders and their private school masters of doom).

    400. Footsoldier says:

      I have bought Sunday Herald every week since it was launched. Sunday Herald front page picture today along with same Scotland in Union letters writers every week means I have decided I might as well by a quality London paper where the anti independence rhetoric is upfront without pretence to be otherwise.

    401. Stephen McKenzie says:

      mr thms @ 11:42

      Agreed a few lavvies for Independence would not have gone amiss at Glasgow Green.

      I asked two polis who were outside what I think were the closed lavvies and he handed my his hat with a smile. It was nice gesture but sometimes things can lead to a tagging order so I declined.

    402. galamcennalath says:

      schrodingers cat says:

      tories and labour would refuse a section 30.

      I believe (as a total amateur on matters constitutional) that Nicola will pursue a Section 30 because refusal to grant one could add weight to the case for Indy. Another example of the disrespect and arrogance towards democracy in Scotland.

      Refusal would mean the referendum would be ‘consultative’. EURef was consultative and the way it is being taken as sacrosanct should set a precedent!

      If WM refused to accept a Yes win on a consultative referendum then I assume we would turn to international law.

    403. mr thms says:

      #schrodingers cat @ 1:04 pm

      I wonder what Professor John Curtice would think of this article from 2012?

      Christine Bell – The Legal Status of the Edinburgh Agreement

    404. louis.b.argyll says:

      Scotland really doesn’t need English blockades or tarrifs, placed onto and slowing down ‘our’ fresh produce on it’s way to market in Europe. It’s not the f_cking 16/1700s any more, or is it..?

      Despite global human rights being supreme, we’re still regressing back to the middle-ages.

      Instead of walled cities we have 24 hour surveillance.

      Instead of misery, well we still have misery, t benefits sanctions and high suicide.

      Instead of fear of invasion we have fear of anything ‘foreign’.

      Instead of free trade we now have ‘unions’ ‘pacts’ created and legislated in the interests of a few paranoid liars who have ‘taken control’.

      Instead of democracy we have Neoconservative elitism demanding respect.

      Instead of complying, my resolve for a progressive future is set in stone.

      The ‘markets’ will follow the people, there is always a better way.

    405. Nana says:

      Hello everybody. Hope to be back with you soon and in the meantime

      Today’s Full Scottish is a wee bit special in a couple of ways. Firstly, it is being presented by the very special Pilar Fernandez, who is visiting Scotland for the All Under One Banner, March for Independence and secondly, it is special because, Pilar has prepared a special report for you about yesterday’s March for Independence.

    406. Dr Jim says:

      United Nations:

      Declaration on the granting of Independence to Colonial countries and people

      Adopted by General Assembly Resolution 1514 (xv) of 14 December 1960
      I have not provided a link to this but I would suggest all parties for or against Independence read this very important document which basically says if a section 30 order were to be refused by the British then the British can stick it up their backsides because the above is the ruling of the United Nations and if you are a part of that body then you must comply with the rulings of that body

    407. schrodingers cat says:


      a referendum without a s30?, yes, it is possible, if we got a 72% turnout it would be hard to deny the result, the tories would boycotte it, perhaps even walk out of holyrood, but if the libdems and labour dont, we could achieve a great result. It would be difficult for westminster to deny the result, they would certainly not get any support from the english voters since english voterss who would deny scotlands right to leave are very few on the ground

      interesting times

    408. Hamish100 says:

      recovering from aches and pains on parts of my body I had forgotton about. Great day out. Sad that the unionists are such angry people. Spoke to some nice folk from England (they aren’t all Katy Grant types), Irish and other nationalities.
      Did try and see if I could speak to some regular contributors on WoS maybe at the Wings table but like others it was busy.

      Our issue is now to persuade more people living in Scotland to support our independence. This of course includes the indecisive Scots and maybe some No’s. Folk like Hutcheon, Gordon unionist Begg are lost causes and we shouldn’t waste our breath on them.
      Before brexit happens we will be asked to choose Scotlands independence or Englands Brexit

    409. schrodingers cat says:

      actually, a tory boycott of indyref2 would split the unionist vote, not ours

    410. Macart says:


      Hope you’re keeping better Nana and looking after yourself. 🙂

    411. Referendum1707 says:

      Glasgow Saturday 5th May 2018

      Life affirming.

    412. Calum McKay says:

      jfngw says; 6 May, 2018 at 12:55 pm

      ‘Not interested in another EURef that’s classed as a UKRef, when even if 100% of Scots vote to remain they can still be taken out. It’s effectively the same as clause 11, no matter what you vote it is consent’

      I agree, a boycott of another uk referendum on EU is the best strategy!

      Scotland can not win within the uk, playing by uk rules.

      Scotland’s vote is considered important if it validates England’s vote. If it differs, it is dismissed as “it was a uk vote not a Scottish vote”.

      All Scots do by voting in uk elections is to provide legitimacy to Scots then being denied what we voted for, this is then spun as being being reasonable and to argue otherwise is anti democratic.

      Yesterday’s march, an outstanding and united turnout is being portrayed as division within the independence movement and problematic for the SNP?

      We will be lied to no matter the facts staring people in the face!

    413. Lenny Hartley says:

      Seems to be the ultra brit nat response that millions more did not attend the march. I had that comment from a yoon on my fb post of the march last night. Its as if they all have been brainwashed to say the same thing.

    414. yesindyref2 says:

      I think the Herald on saturday is more open to Indy, the SH has been “divisive” for a long time, fishing out sacked ministers and old has been somethings as though they’re current “sources”, or represent a “split”.

      Anyways, as Proud Cybernat says, people can see with their own eyes. A lot of people from Glasgow and visitors will have seen the long march, or hear about it from their friends. Then they see the way some media misrepresents it – an eye-opener for those whose eyes haven’t been opened already.

      A side by side picture would do the job, with the SH being the face of the lie being perpetrated about a “counter-demo” of 20-30 people compared with 35,000, and the likes of the ones in The National showing the truth of it.

    415. Nana says:


      Sure am Macart 🙂
      How are the feet today after yesterday’s march? Hubby was sorry he didn’t get to meet you. Maybe next time.

    416. Liz g says:

      Hi Nana
      Good to see your posting again, hope you’re feeling better X

    417. schrodingers cat says:

      other countries, including the eu, wouldnt accept a yes result if westminster refused to do so. but it is difficult to see WM doing that, on what grounds? at what political cost?

      if slab didnt boycott indyref2, i am absolutly certain we could get over 65% turnout.

      the difference in catalonia is that it isnt illegal to hold referendums in scotland, so it couldnt be stopped.

      tories whinging and asking folk to boycotte?? i’m not sure how many would.

      this could be a win win situation for us 🙂

    418. yesindyref2 says:

      Basically speaking that is, after over 4 years, 35,000 people who took the trouble to join a march, plus those on the pavements, plus those who made their way straight to Glasgow Green. It comes to 1% of the total electorate – a massive number of active people, activists.

      Plus the likes of me and others who had work to do, plus the ill, plus those too far to travel, plus those who maybe couldn’t afford the time and money, but also activists in our way.

      The Union doesn’t stand a chance.

    419. Nana says:

      @Liz g,

      I’m fine Liz thank you. Watched the march online and admit to feeling a wee bit emotional. What a turn out, just brilliant.

    420. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana Hope you enjoyed the Pipe music from Chris at the Clutha last night . Pilar visited the Wings Stall & was introduced to the Wingers she & her partner were given badges Wings Flag & the all important Scottish Passports with Odet doing her Calligraphy on them & another Catalan David got the same gifts ( don’t tell Rocky 11 we give merchandise away or he’ll grass us up tae Rev Stu ) .

      It’s the International reach of Wings Over Scotland LoL.

    421. Nana says:

      @ Ronnie,

      Loved chatting with you and Pnr, and the pipe music well what can I say…may take a while for my hearing to get back to normal.

      I’m waiting for my ‘cut’ of the take to arrive Ronnie 🙂 you have my address?

    422. Dan Huil says:

      Apparently, according to britnats, millions didn’t attend yesterday’s march. That’ll be the same britnats who proclaimed that the Baby Box was a fire hazard, after britnats had set fire to it. Desperate desperate stuff.

    423. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Catalan indy supporters are putting forward Puigdemont’s name again for the election of the Catalan President.

      They are an inspiration for us in Scotland.

    424. schrodingers cat says:

      Dr Jim
      i dare say you are correct pointing out the un ruling, but we need to do this on our own, i wouldnt count on the eu or un lifting a finger to help us, nice if they did, but not something i would count on.

      i was embedded in un forces when i was in the army, in my experience, un laws and protocols are often violated, with the full knowledge of the un, if the collective political will to enforce them is missing, which is generally the case, they just ignore them.

      that does not mean we are without any powers of our own, if we can mobilise 90k to march, imagine how many we can mobilise once the scots get really pissed off?

      the union is a lie, this nation of equals is a myth but union depends on this myth being perpetrated. Westminster can become belligerent, try to shut down indyref2 and holyrood, but they risk bursting the bubble that is the myth.

      they know the power grab is unpopular, they know that refusing out right a s30 will be unpopular, perhaps not with ruth and co, but with enough people to make the difference.

    425. schrodingers cat says:


      i think the biggest turnout for a rally in indyref1 was in edinburgh and about 25k, (willing to be corrected)

      this was why the unionists have such long faces today.


    426. galamcennalath says:


      I want many things from Indy. And when it comes I’m sure we won’t be disappointed, in time. It’s going to be hard to make a worse job than WM!

      But more and more I also want Indy to remove BritNats from Scottish public life once and for all!

      They are a plague on decency. They moan and whinge. They attack and talk down things which are clearly in the common good just for cheap point scoring. They are spoilers and contribute nothing.

    427. Thepnr says:


      I’m really really embarrassed to say this but I spent “your cut” on beer and fags in the Clutha.

      Never mind eh you what we wasters are like. Spongers that are skint and every penny we get is a subsidy. Is it?

    428. Lenny Hartley says:

      SC yup think there was an estimated 25k at the 2013 Edinburgh March, there were a lot more yesterday in my estimation. Yesterday people were saying that the Orginors were saying 91 thousand and the police estimate of first 35 thousand then i was told theolice rstimate was now 60 thousand. My Mp sposted on FB upwards of 91 thousand. Anybody know A) what the organisors did estimate and B) the Police Scotland estimation.
      It certainly did not look 91k to me based on attenden e at a Led Zeppelin concert in the seventies
      Where police estimated a crowd of 200 thousand and it looked more like a third of that.
      Whatever it was it was by far the largest pro Indy March i have attended by some margin. Well done to the Organisors, only one gripe, I cant see Orange Walks having to walk down crowded pavements, why did we have to, it was as if the Police were trying to split us into small groups so the BBC could get their required footage.
      Well done to the trumpet or trapone player hanging out of the windae, biggest cheer I heard was for the couple, she an elderly lady wearing a hagib waving the saltire from a balcony next to the Holiday Inn.

    429. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dorothy Devine says: 6 May, 2018 at 8:47 am:

      “Maybe next time the organisers could set the route for a swing down Finnieston Street over the Squinty bridge and a wee silent “tribute’ to the BBBC and STV?”

      Perhaps they could march right round the BBC & STV studios, Dorothy. So as to give them both the best possible chance of checking the numbers present properly.

      If nothing else it would be interesting to see which unionist outfit was nearest to the true figures.

    430. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ronnie , I was only wishing I liked whisky without a very large glug of lemonade – I would not have offended Old Pulteney by doing that!

    431. Nana says:


      What! You went ahead without me and spent it all on fags and booze. Just hope you had a great evening and not too bad a hangover today.

      If you do have a hangover Pnr, I would not recommend pipe music 🙂

    432. Robert Peffers says:

      @gerry parker says: 6 May, 2018 at 10:48 am:

      ” … Looks like the YES campaign is kicking off by itself by popular demand.”

      That was the most astounding factor of how the YES movement began, Gerry. No one person or group began it. It was a spontaneous awakening of the peoples of Scotland right across Scotland, party lines, religious groups and social strata. A real popular front and such spontaneous movements will never be defeated.

      … for as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

    433. jfngw says:

      @Calum McKay

      If SNP voters decided to just spoil their papers the valid votes would be around 42% (from the 2017 results), that would equate to 58% of Scots deciding that Westminster was not representative of them. After all what difference would it make, MP’s from Scotland are just occupying seats (voting fodder for the unionist parties), they rarely can make any significant difference.

      Imagine how the MSM would portray this, after all having more spoilt papers than the seat winner in the majority of seats is hard to ignore, but they would try.

    434. Macart says:


      Feet aren’t too bad, and spirits definitely took a lift.

      It was a grand day and I was only sorry I missed the meet n greet later on. Met Smallaxe and good few others whilst there and got home footsore, but with plenty of smiles. 🙂

    435. Robert Peffers says:

      “Proud Cybernat says: 6 May, 2018 at 11:46 am:

      ” … “archers”? Hmm – “marchers”. Of course.”

      So definitely not, “wee arra people.” then?

    436. Dr Jim says:

      What the UN ruling means is Scotland cannot have an illegal Referendum because it’s a recognised sovereign country by the UN so any Referendum a country chooses to have is therefore legal even though that country is part of a political Union with another
      For comparison it would be like the EU taking the UK to court to prevent the UK from leaving, it wouldn’t happen because the UK chose to join a Union with the EU but can also choose to leave that Union or they wouldn’t be doing it now

      Iv’e no doubt the British will argue, but they won’t argue in court because they know they’d lose, It’s international law, England does not own Scotland it’s only a political Union

      If the Act of Union were to be taken to any court in the modern world as new legislation it would be laughed out as a piece of nonsense
      So if the Scottish government choose to hold a referendum and the result is YES to independence the Act of Union is dissolved, no matter the arguments from England or its Principalities, because the Union is Scotland and England not Wales and Northern Ireland and overseas territories

      If you get married you can get divorced

      It’s all a matter of the will to do it and take them on, but of course we still need the public support to win and we can’t have half a million Scottish voters not siding with us because they’re in a huff over the UK withdrawal from the EU and choosing not to vote YES, because if we lose it might well be our last chance because we all know what the English will do

      They’re trying it now in the hope of preventing democracy
      We don’t really have a lot of time before Mundell or somebody else is declared British commander in chief or some other stupid title giving them the power to slash us to ribbons and making it economically impossible ever again to get free of them

    437. Brian Powell says:

      A while back folk said the New Referendum doesn’t belong to the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon said, quite genuinely, ‘you go for it’, so folk now shouldn’t be complaining or too much self congratulating, just go for it.

      Sandra White MSP, Craig Murray, Tommy Shepherd MP and the young guy from English for Yes gave stonking, rousing speeches, couldn’t ask for better starters.

    438. schrodingers cat says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      @gerry parker says:

      ” … Looks like the YES campaign is kicking off by itself by popular demand.”

      That was the most astounding factor of how the YES movement began, Gerry. No one person or group began it. It was a spontaneous awakening of the peoples of Scotland right across Scotland,

      true dat, i remember seeing blair jenkins being interviewed during indyref1 where he admitted that yes scotland had lost control of the yes movement years before.

      I cant help thinking that this is how it should be.

    439. Vestas says:

      Oh FFS this is the worst sort of Labour bullshit imaginable!

      Sorry nana but these people are unionist first, socialist next.

      Time for people to drop the canary from their reading list IMHO.

    440. Thepnr says:

      Watch this. They’re beelin and I’m happy 🙂

    441. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The waiting here makes it all the more moving as it gets into its stride

    442. Thepnr says:

      Well done Phantom Power!

      You tell it better than I ever could. Must have a fish bone stuck in my throat because there’s a lump there.

      I hope this is just a snippet because your work is class.

    443. Liz g says:

      Dr Jim @ 4.02
      No I cannot see them going to court on that premise either.
      But what “I think” they will attempt is to “defend” their version of “The Will of The People” who have told them in 2014 that’s what they want Westminster to decide (the Constitution is a Reserved power) and be in charge of!
      They did something like this in N.Ireland.
      The Falklands.
      They will twist it up into “The Will” of the silent majority,and they,at great cost,to themselves are compelled to defend it.
      They just need to demonstrate,somehow, a drop in support for the SNP and that’s why they need time.
      While also using the 2014 vote and result to declare it an internal matter,as the interests of democracy have been served,and the SNP are just agitators,with whom they are dealing!

      Well at least they will TRY…but I think we are actually already in the Majority and we are all determined to grow it.
      And as we keep sayin.. It’s only a Treaty/Union,and considering the amount of times it’s been breached since 2014,they really,really,don’t want that in a Court!

    444. Andy-B says:

      I’m buoyed by yesterday’s huge turn out and hope that the FM calls for a second indyref sooner than later. However I doubt the PM will give consent for a second indyref at anytime in the near future.

      We know what Tory consent consists of, we’ll tell you when and not before.

    445. Cubby says:


      March for Scotland – brilliant video posted on YouTube.

      Keep up the good work.

    446. Cactus says:

      Aye Robert Peffers ~

      We could have a Hands Around Their Studios…

      … and you can leave your hat on.

      Cheers y’all.

    447. Golfnut says:

      I maybe totally and absolutely talking blocks here, but noting that we yet again are discussing getting ‘ permission ‘ via a Section 30 order to hold a referendum.

      A Section 30 order sets out the terms and conduct of a referendum, ( Westminster broke every one of them during ref 14 ). Nicola made it clear that she would seek permission from the Scottish Parliament to agree terms for a Section 30 order. A section 30 is worthless if the terms are broken without penalty. The people of Scotland and our Parliament have provided the only permission required for a ref to take place.

      Westminster so called sovereignty doesn’t apply in Scotland if we say it doesn’t.

    448. Colin Alexander says:

      Was it one of the Wings regulars who had the Wings flag on the march?

    449. Gfaetheblock says:

      Robert Peffers at 3.39

      Yes was a company limited by guarantee, primarily funded by the party of government, the SNP and the Lotto millionaire, the Weirs. Not quite ‘grassroots’.

    450. Liz g says:

      Golfnut @ 9.09
      Aye,yer right …
      As long as we only as we only talk about it…
      Cause we’re doing the referendum anyway we have that Mandate and that’s beyond dispute.

    451. Al Dossary says:

      So it seems that the 20 or so zoomers waving their butcher’s apron were organised by the group “a force for good”.

      Boasting none other than the holocaust denying former UKIP treasurer Alistair McConnachie as a director.

      Would be interesting to see if any of them were part of the remt-a-mob in Gearge Square after the referendum.

    452. Cubby says:

      Golfnut. 7.09
      Totally agree with you.

      Westminster makes the rules, we play fair and stick to them, and they break their own rules with impunity and no penalty.

      You cannot trust the Britnats they lie and cheat and will continue to do so. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either deluded or not paying attention.

      They are like the football team who has bribed the referee, the linesmen and even the ballboys. Win at any cost is all that matters to them – they have no decency or integrity. They are so far removed from democracy they are borderline fascist. Do not expect them to keep their word – they will not.

    453. schrodingers cat says:

      a s30 is desirable, but no one is saying it is necessary. the euref didnt have one.

    454. Rock says:

      Brian McHugh says:
      5 May, 2018 at 9:48 pm

      “When and if the window opens will be brief, but when it does, we hit the ground running.”

      If only the SNP had “hit the ground running” when it should have.

      Rock (27th August 2017 – “Underneath the Goodyear blimp”):

      “Scotland was on the verge of independence immediately after the Brexit vote.

      The unionist parties were without leaders and completely lost, the SNP had 56 out of 59 MPs and 50% of the vote, the EU’s eyes were (favourably) on Scotland.

      But Nicola squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

      The result: Nicola outsmarted by the collusion between Saints Theresa and Ruth on one hand, and Corbyn on the other, fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%.

      It is my prediction that there will be a “snap” Brexit and the SNP will be caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

      Or another “snap” Westminster election with the SNP again losing support.

      Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

      If they succeed in neutralising the Rev. Stuart Campbell and WOS, independence will be “stone dead” for at least 620 years.

      For the avoidance of any doubt, my mantra has long been and remains:

      “Always vote, and always vote SNP only until after independence.””

    455. Thepnr says:

      Who farted?

    456. Dr Jim says:

      Colin Fox’s fanboy

    457. auld highlander says:

      Ah can smell it from here, it’s enough to bring tears to a glass eye.

    458. Bob Mack says:

      Good heavens. There is such a thing as the Prophet of Doom.

      You an undertaker in real life perchance? Ever appear as private fraser in Dad’s army?

    459. Sunday Herald is owned by Newsquest,

      Newsquest get over £2,000,000 a year from the Government,guaranteed for 9 years,to become part of the BBC Local Government Reporters scheme,

      a guaranteed £18,000,000 buys a lot of influence,

      the whole thing stinks,

      but nobody in the media are reporting on it,

      strange that.

    460. Cactus says:

      See how when ye look at auld photograps of Glasgow, all the guys are wearing hats on their heads like, mon the bunnet!

      Anybuddy played The Prodigy yet?

    461. Bobp says:

      Galamcennalath 1.01pm. What Scotland needs is a good regular and reliable ferry link to europe .we’ll get our fresh produce out then. Our southern neighbours can then shove their embargoes and tariffs where the sun don’t shine.

    462. Glamaig says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      6 May, 2018 at 8:49 pm

      ‘the whole thing stinks’

      It certainly does. What possible interest does the BBC have in newspapers. It looks like the start of state control.

    463. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Cactus.

      Bra’ Saturday night, iye?

      Onnyhoo, “bunnets”.

      Like this, I surmise…

      Men attending a May Day meeting on Glasgow Green in 1913. Burrell Collection Photo Library.

      (I see your Grandad is there.)

    464. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Just had a wee laugh at the Canary link above informing folk that the march was not even organised by trade unions, damn right.

      Trade Unions famous for silence on Catalonia, silence on the attack on the Scottish parliament and silent on all Unionist actions against the Scottish people.

      Trade Unions why is that?

      Roughly half trade union members are Nationalist leaning at least.

      Why the deafening silence.

      I think we should be told.

    465. Valerie Diamond says:

      Jason smoothpiece. That’ll be “brit”nationalist leaning.

    466. schrodingers cat says:

      re scottish trade unions

      the remenent of of the labour party TU’s are still proffered soe sort of pre eminance by the unionist msm. deliberatly. eg cosla.
      in reality, the snp trade unions are far more important but are not given the same media coverage.
      perhaps we could do better, perhaps we should mention them more often?

    467. schrodingers cat says:

      soz, the spelling in that last post was my worst ever.

    468. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Schrodingers cat

      I am unaware of SNP trade unions I have in the past suggested such a set up, Nationalist trade unions.

      Step in the right direction and all that.

      Still like an explanation from existing trade unions as to their silence on the subjects mentioned earlier.

    469. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sc –

      Er, to paraphrase Homer The Simpson, it was your worst ever *so far*…


    470. schrodingers cat says:

      in truth

      there are far better people on wings to comment on the tu’s

    471. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      You are forgiven regarding your spelling I too am drinking strong drink and rely on spell check.

    472. Dr Jim says:

      Anas Sarwars shops are still selling the cheap brain damaging Hooch at the old prices….Sunday Mail

      I thought he was interested in health *Sarwar must resign*

    473. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Will anyone who missed Glasgow AUOB yesterday and fancies trying to make it to Dumfries on June 2nd please make themselves known on off-topic?

      Not being nosey – just wondering if we can perhaps pick one another’s brains re transport, evening entertainment, occupying Mundell’s office etc. Usual boring stuff…


    474. Rocky II says:

      Well the answer given regarding the amount raised at the Wings Stall yesterday was as clear as mud.

      All I asked for was a total. What I got was lies and deflections.

      Why can’t somebody who was in charge of the money tell us that “X” amount of £££s was raised yesterday.

      It reminds me of the old Social Club Committees from the 70s and 80s where a handful of guys shared out thousands between themselves paying for Holidays abroad and paying for them out of the Club funds.

      Many Clubs went bankrupt due to a few greedy selfish Committee members.

      So, less of the deflections and more of the truth.

      Wings is not a fund raiser for a couple of conmen wideo’s.

      If a round was bought in the pub, that was only to divert attention away from where the rest of the money went.

    475. Macart says:

      What do you get when you see a pork pie, a Havana and a Stetson all in one place. Three awesome and remarkably stylish indy supporters.

      Just sayin’. 🙂

    476. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Cactus at 9.03
      Actually I also think a very big car/lorry ferry from Greenock to Dublin would be very viable especially as Ireland is already making plans to send its produce direct to the EU.

    477. Colin Alexander says:

      Rocky II

      I agree; it’s a reasonable question. There should be proper accounts that are open to scrutiny. You didn’t deserve all the sarcastic crap, piss taking answers.

      Write to Stu Campbell about it.

      The problem on this site is the clique off Pat Lally types here who think they own the site and try to bully and drive away others who want open, honest debate.

    478. Proud Cybernat says:

      Was it one of the Wings regulars who had the Wings flag on the march?

      Aye – that wis me. Hope you don’t have a problem with that and that you got some good photos.

      Then I again – I could just be yanking your chain.

    479. Proud Cybernat says:

      I agree; it’s a reasonable question. There should be proper accounts that are open to scrutiny.

      If you numbnuts have a problem with the way the Wings stall is run then perhaps what you should do is pop a wee letter off to HMRC and tell them all about it – I’m sure they’ll be happy to hear from you.

      And when all the receipts are presented and everything is shown to be all above board, what will you wallopers do then, eh?

      Away and chase yerselves. You’re BritNat zoomery and faux concern is fooling no one here.

    480. schrodingers cat says:

      dear ian
      tx 4 the vote of no confidence

    481. schrodingers cat says:

      wont anyone think of the children 🙂

    482. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dave Mcewan Hill cant see a ferry from Greenock to Ireland being viable, whats the point of longish sea journey to Ireland , then trucked to Cork or whereever to be shipped to France. Better to Ship from Rosyth to Amsderdam about 650km . I sailed twice on the Rostyh to Zeebrugge services, with both operators, a lot better than driving up from Dover.

    483. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @sc –



    484. boris says:

      Have tried without success on a number of occasions over the last couple of days to post the link to my latest article;

    485. Rocky II says:

      Colin Alexander:

      I like the comparison between Wings Money holders and the “Pat Lally types”


      The Wings Stall holders are bringing all this on themselves.

      What is wrong with a bit of transparency.

      If any BritNat outfit was doing this, we would be the first to slaughter them for being cheating thieving bastards.

      You Wings Stall holders are no different.

      So how much was raised yesterday on behalf of the “Wings” name?

    486. Robert Peffers says:

      @Gfaetheblock says: 6 May, 2018 at 7:29 pm:

      “Yes was a company limited by guarantee, primarily funded by the party of government, the SNP and the Lotto millionaire, the Weirs. Not quite ‘grassroots’.”

      The individual Yes Groups were on the go some time before the SG got involved and the Weirs were grass roots SNP long before they won the lottery. To their credit their good fortune did not change their loyalty to the party. Not only that but they have funded many other very worthy causes too.

      They are a very nice couple and were so before and after their good fortune. Are you attempting to claim they were not?

    487. Effijy says:

      The thinktank’s research found that England has the third-lowest number of doctors among the 21 nations, with just 2.8 per 1,000 people, barely half the number in Austria, which has 5.1 doctors per 1,000 of population.
      Similarly, the UK has the sixth-smallest number of nurses for its population: just 7.9 per 1,000 people – way behind Switzerland, which has the most: 18 nurses, more than twice as many.

      A doctor at the Royal Liverpool University Hospital,
      With hospital beds, England has just 2.6 for every 1,000 people, just over a third of the number in Germany, which has the most – 8.1 beds – and which places the UK 18th overall out of the 21 countries which the OECD gathered figures for.

      The number of hospital beds in England has halved over the last 30 years and now stands at about 100,000, though the NHS added about 4,000 more as an emergency measure in December, January and February to help it cope with the spike in patient numbers caused by the long, cold winter.
      The UK has fewer doctors and nurses than many other comparable countries both in Europe and worldwide. According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), Britain comes 24th in a league table of 34 member countries in terms of the number of doctors per capita.
      Greece, Austria and Norway have the most; the three countries with the fewest are Turkey, Chile and Mexico. Jeremy Hunt, the health secretary, regularly points out that the NHS in England has more doctors and nurses than when the Conservatives came to power in 2010. That is true, although there are now fewer district nurses, mental health nurses and other types of health professionals.

      NHS unions and health thinktanks point out that rises in NHS staff’s workloads have outstripped the increases in overall staff numbers.
      Hospital bosses say understaffing is now their number one problem, even ahead of lack of money and pressure to meet exacting NHS-wide performance targets. Hunt has recently acknowledged that, and Health Education England, the NHS’s staffing and training agency, last month published a workforce strategy intended to tackle the problem.
      Doctors’ leaders said the report showed that the NHS is “chronically underfunded” and is receiving £10bn less per year than it needs.
      “These statistics show that the UK has fewer beds per head compared to virtually all other EU nations, fewer doctors and nurses, reduced access to investigations such as MRI scans, and is spending less on medications,” said Dr Chaand Nagpaul, leader of the British Medical Association, which represents most of the NHS’s 240,000 doctors.

      “Taken together, these numbers translate into the painful reality afflicting the NHS daily, of a system under pressure with inadequate capacity to meet the health needs of the population. This is directly resulting in delays and is adversely affecting quality of care for patients. It is also causing unsustainable workload burdens on NHS staff, causing stress and burnout and affecting recruitment and retention.”
      The National Audit Office said in March that the NHS’s finances were “in a perilous state” and that the service was being hampered by having vacancies for 100,000 staff. Lord Darzi, a former Labour health minister, said last month that the NHS needed to receive a £50bn boost to its budget by 2020, taking it to £173bn.

    488. Rocky II says:

      I notice the ones holding the cash are not replying.

      Too busy packing their suitcases.

      And don’t forget your toothbrush…

    489. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Peffers says: 6 May, 2018 at 11:34 pm:

      Further to my reply to – @Gfaetheblock says: 6 May, 2018 at 7:29 pm:

      BTW: The individual YES groups also raise most of their own funds and are most certainly not run by the SG or SNP.

      Neither, Blair Jenkins nor Dennis Canavan, (who were the leaders of the YES Campaign were SNP members.

    490. Hamish100 says:

      Colin Alexander, Rocky 11, Rock are one in the same. Yoony trawlers.

      Proper accounts!!!

      Remember the DUP and the unionists monies supported by big business getting moved around pre elections and referenda. SiU supported by foreigners trying to influence votes, Private English schools and the lairds and lairdies. Arlene and her waste of millions still in a job. The owners of major newspapers overseas owners with right wing credentials and are tax avoiders.
      The brexit supporters using a certain company now going bust — with the same folk ensuring there are other tax

      yIP all for proper accounts – Why CA , Rock 1 &2 have you kept your mouths shut? well we all know the answer really don’t we.

    491. Cubby says:

      Best laugh today = the paid to troll Britnat saying he wants open honest debate.

    492. Cactus says:

      FUCK Westminster and their politicians like.

      Love Scotland.

      U know.

      Keep marching like Scotland like!

      Whom is ra fire-starter?

    493. Robert Peffers says:

      @jfngw says:6 May, 2018 at 3:42 pm:

      “If SNP voters decided to just spoil their papers the valid votes would be around 42% (from the 2017 results), that would equate to 58% of Scots deciding that Westminster was not representative of them.”

      Utter claptrap – What it would mean is that 42% of the Scots did not vote one way or the other and they would be recorded as having spoiled their papers.

      ” … After all what difference would it make, MP’s from Scotland are just occupying seats (voting fodder for the unionist parties), they rarely can make any significant difference.”

      And that’s even more utter bollox, jfngw.

      The hardest working group of MPs at Westminster are, without doubt, the SNP and there are always a greater percentage of the SNP in the debating chamber than any other party. They do not just pile out of the many bars when the division bell rings like the rest of the lobby fodder and the quality of their contributions to the debates is very high.

      So, yes, the combined unionist parties outvote them but you only need to consider how silent the Westminster tame MSM & SMSM are about events involving the third largest [arty in the Commons to realise that the Westminster Establishment are running scared out of their skins.

      They know that Scottish independence is now inevitable and nothing Westminster can do will prevent it from happening. The best they will manage is to delay it for a while before the divorce is declared absolute.

      “Imagine how the MSM would portray this, after all having more spoilt papers than the seat winner in the majority of seats is hard to ignore, but they would try.”

      Bollox – they will just continue with what they do now. Attempt to ignore anything about Scotland unless it is Scotland shite! SNP Baaaad!

      The point has been passed now for quite some time that their actions, (or rather their inactions), have become counter productive.

      That long video clip by the Lady from Catalonia where she walked among the marchers and interviewed individuals ably proved that point. Unprompted a large percentage of the interviewees made that point very, very clear. Many claiming they no longer read, listened or viewed the Westminster Propaganda.

      Not only that but the falling newspaper circulation figures the falling BBC Scotland and STV news viewing figures prove the point as does the numbers of Scots who are ready to tell the World that the media is biased and Westminster controlled.

      They are losing their grip on the people they once controlled and the rising numbers in that Glasgow march not getting mentioned in the Westminster controlled media is not stopping the news getting out – and that trend to acceleration more each day. The greatly increased numbers marching proves the point and the Yes movement has hardly got going properly again yet.

      If the tipping point is not already here then it sure as hell is very close to tipping the scales more sharply.

    494. Liz g says:

      Proud Cybernat @ 10.56

      I’m the Wings Flag bearer !!!!

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