The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


A useful idiot

Posted on July 25, 2014 by

Alert readers will doubtless have noticed that a post yesterday was disrupted by a series of strident and increasingly ill-tempered comments by a particular user, themed around their insistence that a central bank is a prerequisite of EU membership, and therefore Scotland wouldn’t be eligible if it was using Sterling as its currency OUTSIDE of a formal currency union with the rUK.

In fairness, that’s an assertion that quite a few people have made during the debate, and the commenter – eventually, having been repeatedly challenged for evidence to back up his claim – managed to provide a couple of examples, in the form of the New Statesman’s George Eaton and the Telegraph’s Andrew Lilico.

owls

The problem, of course, was that those were just equally empty assertions which provided no evidence. So rather than argue the toss over interpretations of obtuse legalese, we thought we’d just go straight to the horse’s mouth, and we rang Graham Blyth, the Head of Office of the European Commission in Scotland.

Being such important people, we got straight through.

Unfortunately, Graham was just heading out to something even more important than talking to us, and he asked if we’d put the question in an email and he’d get something back to us today. He was as good as his word. Here’s the exchange we had.

———————————————————————————————————

FROM: Rev. Stuart Campbell
TO: Graham Blythe

Hi Graham. Further to our telephone conversation of a few moments ago, my question is simply “Is it a condition of EU membership that a member state must have its own central bank?”

Any assistance much appreciated.

———————————————————————————————————

FROM: Graham Blythe
TO: Rev. Stuart Campbell

Dear Stuart,

Your enquiry relates to the monetary policy of the EU that is mapped out in the Treaty of the Functioning of the European Union. Specifically I would draw your attention to Article 130 of the Treaty that concerns how the ECB should exercise its responsibilities. Article 131 further states that:

“Each Member State shall ensure that its national legislation including the statutes of its national central bank is compatible with the Treaties and the Statute of the ESCB [European System of Central Banks] and of the ESCB.”

The Statute of the ESCB and the ECB is laid down in a Protocol that is annexed to the Treaties. Article 14 of the Protocol concerns National Central Banks. Article 14.3 specifically states that:

“The national central banks are an integral part of the ESCB and shall act in accordance with the guidelines and instructions of the ECB…”

In terms of new Member States, it is Article 48 [48.3] that specifically makes reference to new Member States. It states:

“Upon one or more countries becoming Member States and their respective national central banks becoming part of the ESCB, the subscribed capital of the ECB and the limit on the amount of foreign reserve assets that may be transferred to the ECB shall be automatically increased…”

Article 50, the final protocol should also be looked at as it refers to Members States with a derogation (The Applicability of the transitional provisions).

Currently out of the 28 EU Member States today, 18 (Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovenia, Slovakia and Spain) have adopted the euro, which means that they participate fully in Stage Three of EMU. The

· Irrevocable fixing of conversion rates;

· Introduction of the euro;

· Conduct of the single monetary policy by the European System of Central Banks;

· Entry into effect of the intra-EU exchange rate mechanism (ERM II);

· Entry into force of the Stability and Growth Pact;

Two – Denmark and the United Kingdom – have a special status, which means that in protocols annexed to the Treaty establishing the European Community (EC Treaty) they were granted the exceptional right to choose whether or not to participate in Stage Three of EMU. They both notified the EU Council (Denmark in 1992 and the United Kingdom in 1997) that they did not intend to move to Stage Three, i.e. they did not wish to become part of the euro area for the time being. The other EU countries currently have a “derogation”. Having a derogation means that a Member State has not yet met the conditions for the adoption of the euro and it is therefore exempt from some, but not all, of the provisions which normally apply from the beginning of Stage Three of EMU. This includes all provisions which transfer responsibility for monetary policy to the Governing Council of the ECB.

Trusting that you will find this explanation to be of assistance

With best regards

———————————————————————————————————

FROM: Rev. Stuart Campbell
TO: Graham Blythe

Thanks very much for the reply. However, I’d already found much of that and it doesn’t really seem to address the question. It says what member states should do with regard to their central banks if they happen to have one, but it doesn’t seem to state or even imply that a central bank is a requirement of membership.

———————————————————————————————————

FROM: Graham Blyth
TO: Rev. Stuart Campbell

Dear Stuart,

My immediate response on a beautifully sunny, warm Edinburgh afternoon (long may it continue) is that your question has never been tested since all those countries acceding to the EU have had central banks.

With best regards,

Graham

———————————————————————————————————

FROM: Rev. Stuart Campbell
TO: Graham Blyth

That’s much the conclusion I’d reached myself. It certainly doesn’t seem to be laid down in any statute, and if you can’t find one I suspect nobody can 🙂

Enjoy the sun.

———————————————————————————————————

So that’s that. The head of the European Commission in Scotland can’t find anything in EU law that says you must have a central bank to be an EU member state.

Honestly, UK media, do we have to do ALL the journalism around here these days?

.

NB For the avoidance of any doubt, the “useful idiot” referred to in the headline of this article is the annoying commenter who made us decide to definitively resolve the issue, not the splendidly helpful and affable Mr Blythe.

Print Friendly

    1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 25 07 14 19:06

      A useful idiot | Scottish Independence News

    280 to “A useful idiot”

    1. Croompenstein says:

      Another one downed Stu I dunno how you manage to keep your sanity but more power to you 🙂

    2. handclapping says:

      It just shows the pragmatism of the EU. If everybody has a central bank then we’ll use it. However a central bank is not essential for price stability which is what the Member States are looking for, so if a member can show and keep stable prices for the qualifying period then job done whether they have a central bank or not.

    3. Chitterinlicht says:

      Very good and thank you

    4. Croompenstein says:

      But..But..you must have a centr..

      But..But..you can’t use the pou..

      But..But..you need to use the eur…

      But..But..Junker said no expans…

      Beavis and Butthead unionists Duggie and Edinburgh Dave pair of diddies

    5. CameronB Brodie says:

      Jean-Claude Juncker had a chance to sink our hopes, but instead essentially gave us a nod and a wink. Do you think these commentators would try to force square pegs into round holes?

    6. Muscleguy says:

      Let’s just be clear here Stu. Despite obviously deserving one, you will not get a Pullitzer or an equivalent since, with few exceptions, you show up the vast majority of modern journalists and those who employ them to simply push out press releases untouched.

      You would think that scoops like this would excite some young journalist to go ferreting for in order to try and make their name, wouldn’t you?

      The MSM media pretend that such answers cannot be got by not going and getting them. From this source or the national transplant person you got such a clear answer from earlier this week by the simple expedient of asking.

      It just goes to highlight what has become a widespread trope of the Yes side: the realisation that our media treat us like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit.

      And they wonder why newspaper sales decline year on year and the audiences for TV news likewise. Why the young frequent news aggregators that take stories from a wide range of sources in the hope of getting a more balanced picture. Sadly most such stories are no more carefully researched than those from the sources they are trying to avoid.

      You, Newsnet, Bella to a certain extent have demonstrated what can be done, cheaply and furthermore that it can be done in such a way as to induce the readers to stump up cash to pay for it, even though they can consume it for nothing.

      What is further amazing is that with such examples the MSM has not changed its modus operandi to recover their lost audiences. I expect they will stubbornly maintain their pathetic standards to the bitter end.

      The BBC is going to sack even more news staff. They should form a cooperative like Newsnet and carry on free of Aunty’s fetters online.

    7. Cuilean says:

      When YES wins, we remain part of UK until 2016, so our central bank until then is Bank of England. During that period, the first pragmatic talks between IndySco Elect Govt & rUK will be the currency, i.e. do we share £ with one central bank (in all four countries’ interests) or do we use £ anyway? IN which case, we can nominate any Scots Bank as a central bank, if required. Christ, if Tesco can form its own bank, so can a Scottish Govt.

    8. Angus says:

      It isn’t a requirement then.

      It would be a bit like claiming that since all the countries in the EU have had great looking woman it means that it is an entry condition for any other state to have the same.

      Scotland would be of course quids in!

    9. drygrangebull says:

      Don’t you ever stop…you make me proud, and you are worth every penny I give you each month.I only wish I could afford more, you are the tenacious terrier Scotland needs.

    10. Croompenstein says:

      all the countries in the EU have had great looking woman

      We’ll never get Duggie oot the toilet noo.. have you got plenty of Charmin ultra in there Duggie?

    11. anton le grandier says:

      So,one another unionist assertion is put to the sword.Good work mate.As you say,though,must you do all the journalism?Certainly if the outcomes of said journalism are pro-indy I suspect you will need to keep on truckin!After all,the pan unionist front of Slab/tory/numpty have only the mass media on their side so what chance do they have?

    12. Ken500 says:

      It was the lack of regulation of US/UK central banks that caused the banking crash

    13. the Penman says:

      See, I was about to comment something to the effect of “again, great journalism Stu” – but it’s not. It’s the absute bare minimum journalism I would expect somebody whose job it is to do.

      So, again, well done for performing the bare minimum expected of someone calling themselves a journalist. And, in doing so, again laying bare the paucity of integrity our papers and broadcasters hold onto.

    14. G H Graham says:

      Mr. Blythe is a gentleman & clearly practiced in the art of thoroughness & politeness.

      Regrettably, the same compliment can not be offered to the British Government, Better Together or indeed the print & broadcast media.

      The latter would rather we just toe the line & accept our fate as a subsidiary part of morally & financially, bankrupt Britain.

      But I’m not for being bullied by anyone, least of all a half arsed, chain smoking, hack working for a declining newspaper or an ermine chasing cad, like “Flipper” Darling.

      So a big thanks to Mr. Blythe because I’ll definitely be voting YES with the confidence that Scotland will be accepted with relative ease into the European community like every other normal sovereign, independent nation.

    15. Andy says:

      Interesting. Looking forward to the SG telling us that Plan B would be a test case for EU membership.

      Never happen though as, in the event of independence, and in the event of Plan B being invoked, the SG will form an institution that carries out most of the functions of a central bank. And they will probably call it a central bank.

      Anyone who thinks otherwise has little understanding of what is involved in running a sovereign state.

    16. heedtracker says:

      Good job!

    17. Geoff Huijer says:

      I’m sure that’ll be a good enough explanation for any level headed Unionist out there…oh wait…

      Doh!

    18. joe kane says:

      All I read there from that EU wonk was blah, blah, blah, blah.
      Yours Sincerely,
      British Mainstream Journalism.

      ps
      Don’t forget to buy all tomorrow’s editions of our Britnat newspapers where we explain at great length why Scotland can’t join the EU without a Central Bank.

    19. Croompenstein says:

      We will vote yes, streamline in to the EU where’s the fire?

      As Flipper says we will have the best of both worlds thanks for that Flips 🙂

    20. eezy says:

      Straight to the source….
      Superb!

    21. Doug McGregor says:

      “About a quarter of Scots have registered for a postal vote – rising to a third in some areas – meaning they will be voting on independence from the end of August.”

      From the Daily Telegraph today , Darlings warning.

      A minimum of 1 in 4 want a postal vote? As Victor would say “I don’t believe it!”

    22. Gordon Adam says:

      Stuart,
      Thanks so much for sorting that out. I have to admit that the ‘useful idiot’ had me flummoxed for a while. I tried desperately to find evidence to refute his argument without success, even the EU site detailing the requirements for membership appeared to (if not in so many words) back up his statement. It’s the truths and half-truths that catch most of us out, as they can sometimes, although not often, appear believable.
      To hear it from the horse’s mouth, so to speak, is reassuring, although he doesn’t say one way or another, just that it has never been done because everyone else already has a central bank.

      I take on-board Cuilean’s statement about Central Banks and that’s also true.

      Yesterday, I was dismayed and thought that we’d backed ourselves into corner but now I see it for what it is. Independence for Scotland isn’t just going to be new for us, it’s something that the EU will have to adjust to too.

      There’s no way on God’s Earth that we’ll have problems with Europe, the reasons that rUK have for trying so hard to hold on to us are the very same reasons our European transition will be a smooth one.

      Once again, thanks for clearing that up and for setting an old grandad’s heart at ease.

    23. You are the man! As noted by Croompenstein, I don’t know how you manage, but I’m sure I speak for a lot of folk when I say, I’m glad you do.

    24. David Smith says:

      Looks like they are going for ballot fraud then.

    25. Derek M says:

      Great stuff Stu damn fine journalism as for all those young journalist out there take note this is how you do it so get to it and make us proud of you.
      Poor wee BTUKOKKNOBEND trolls you would think they would learn not to annoy our Rev as he eats trolls for breakfast 🙂

    26. Capella says:

      Congratulations Stu on nailing yet another nail into the coffin of MSM credibility. Newspapers are a waste of money and the BBC ditto. They are mostly just mouthpieces for government propaganda. They also print/broadcast stuff that doesn’t matter such as sport and celebrity gossip, bread and circuses. Even then they manage to propagate the government line, for example in the Commonwealth Games coverage.
      Some of the music and arts are entertaining but who would rely on the MSM for actual news and analysis? Thanks to our bloggers we can get to the truth of these issues. We certainly need a new channel for gathering and analysing important issues. Old journalism is redundant now.

    27. bjsalba says:

      But does having a central bank mean that it MUST act as a lender of last resort with no limits? Does it have to bail out a bank(s)no matter what it does, no matter how risky or stupid?

      As I understand it, some countries kept their banks and financial institutions on a short leash and weathered the credit crunch very well. Why can’t we do that?

    28. R whittington says:

      O/T but do any of you know the best and most cost effective way of sealing plaster? I’ve just had my back bedroom done and at £18 a ltr sealant is quite expensive. I have a small tub of PVA and also a bit of white emultion left over from a previous job that I’d prefer to use if possible. Any advice welcome.

    29. HandandShrimp says:

      bjsalba

      No the central bank doesn’t have to bail out banks. The US let Lehman Brothers go to the wall. Iceland let their banks go to the wall, and jailed a few bankers.

    30. BigRik says:

      But the UK gov says we cant use the pound. If only the Bank of England was independent of governm…. oh, wait.

    31. HandandShrimp says:

      Watered down pva is fine. 2 parts pva to 1 part water

    32. Derek M says:

      @bjsalba vested interests my friend thats why ,crash and flipper were looking after their buddies at the expense of the rest of us,dont forget some people got extremely rich over this where they should have been stuck in jail and it is still going on nothing has changed.

    33. horacesaysyes says:

      I look forward to seeing this response from Mr Blythe in tomorrow’s newspapers, which I’ll read once I’ve got these pigs down off my roof tiles.

    34. Robert Peffers says:

      G H Graham says: 25 July, 2014 at 6:51 pm:
      “Regrettably, the same compliment can not be offered to the British Government, Better Together or indeed the print & broadcast media.”

      Yeah! It’s things like them that put the, Grate in Grate Britain.

    35. Heidthebaw says:

      I was at a public talk at Scotland House in Brussels which was attended by some big cheeses and impressive chaps where this question was raised, and the answer seemed to be that an independent Scotland using sterling unofficially would need to have an authority performing certain functions which normally a central bank would do, but it didn’t need to have an actual central bank.

    36. Dan Huil says:

      Whatever the result, and I believe Yes will win, I hope the Rev continues to take an active and insightful interest in Scottish affairs, especially in future dealings with Westminster.

    37. joe kane says:

      As I understand it, some countries kept their banks and financial institutions on a short leash and weathered the credit crunch very well. Why can’t we do that
      – Jeeso jsalba, it’s whinging cybernats like you that really take all the fun out of British Government neoliberal financial deregulation.

      And anyway, the Director of the Better Together campaign, Mr Alastair Flipper, saved the British economy after his own Labour Government destroyed it thus proving that as part of the Union we do have the Best Of Both Worlds, total incompetence and historic levels of private and public debt.

      Reference –
      Bank bail-out adds £1.5 trillion to debt
      The Telegraph
      16 Jan 2011

    38. Andy-B says:

      Well done Rev, it seems that you’re the only one prepared to go straight to the horses mouth for the real answers, maybe you should do it more often. If you did no one could refute the undeniable evidence, and no’s scaremongering stories would effectively become insignificant.

      I suppose you could even host a Q&A session on this site, once a week in the run up to the referendum, it would clear up a hell a of a lot of doubt for any lurkers, considering voting yes or no.

      PS, Only if you have the time which, in hindsight, I doubt you have.

    39. stonefaction says:

      The postal vote fraud ‘likelihood’ is my one worry against a Yes victory. Not sure how best to word a question to the Electoral Commission to ask how they plan to spot any postal vote fraud when they have apparently considered not allowing the method in certain areas previously. A suggestion in a report in The Guardian of urging “the police to patrol polling stations during elections….. and dedicate more resources to investigating electoral-fraud allegations” doesn’t appear particularly strong-handed.

    40. Jimmie says:

      ‘your question has never been tested since all those countries acceding to the EU have had central banks’

      So in other words, we’ve no idea whether Scotland will be able to become an EU member or not if its outside a currency union because its never been tested before?

      Personally I don’t get why everyone is making such a big fuss about the EU anyway, I’m sure they’ll work out a way to let us stay in it but even if they don’t, so what?

      We can go our own way – look at Norway.

    41. Dan Huil says:

      @ Doug McGregor The Telegraph continues to print unionist lies in order to misinform its readership in England. The only people in Scotland who “buy” the Telegraph are those unfortunates who purchase the wrong sort of bottled water at Scotland’s railway stations.

    42. Malc says:

      whittington, you could also use watered wallpaper paste

    43. Ken500 says:

      The ones who caused the banking crisis are always lecturing Scotland, who have balanced the books and been in surplus for years. Cheek doesn’t come into it. Westminster has been lying and stealing from Scotland for years.

    44. caz-m says:

      As a guest said on RT.tv Max Keiser show,

      “Central Banks are so 90s”.

      Talking of Max Keiser Rev, when are you going to arrange a studio interview, they are based in Old London Town, not that far from Bath.

      You would be an instant hit.

    45. Paula Rose says:

      Wall paper and plaster – at last we can help a wee troll, need any tips on cat food?

    46. Paula Rose says:

      OMG – a useful idiot.

    47. Grouse Beater says:

      Had we needed a central bank by mandatory EU legislation, the eminent economists who mapped out our best choices for an autonomous Scotland would have said so.

      At least once a week some banana brained ‘unionist’ enters the fray to taunt with a claim that is unsubstantiated or almost impossible to verify.

      The common factor among them is the tenacity with which they keep stating it as a fact knowing full well it cannot be proven within the time monopolised to promote the falsehood.

    48. Juan P says:

      @stonefaction

      Is it possible that in the referendum Yes have calculated that postal votes will work in our favour and on that basis don’t want to kick up too much of a fuss about the potential for the system to be abused.

      I suspect No are calculating the same thing.

      A quick google search found this.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26520836

      It’s surprising that neither side (correct me if I’m wrong about this) are exactly jumping up and down about postal voting being permitted for the referendum.

      I agree with the QC for what it’s worth. In this day and age there are far more robust systems that could be put in place to reduce the possibility of electoral fraud.

    49. alexicon says:

      Mr Whittington.
      Use the same whitewash the unionist use when they’ve got a scandal on.

      No doubt the unionist reply to this would be that this gentleman doesn’t know what he’s talking about and he is probably an SNP supporters.

      Notice the association there?

    50. Robert Peffers says:

      @Croompenstein says: 25 July, 2014 at 6:55 pm:

      “We will vote yes, streamline in to the EU where’s the fire?

      There will be no fire for Scotland, Croompenstein. Just as I told Edinburgh Dave yesterday, upon Scotland disuniting the Bipartite United Kingdom several things will follow.

      There BofE is a shared asset being nationalised by the former union in 1946. The three country independent Kingdom of England has no, (elected as such), legal parliament. The bipartite Treaty of Union has ne statement other than the two founding member kingdoms are legally equally sovereign. It is a unionist fantasy that Westminster has continued legal sovereignty. Therefore if a currency union is not agreed and negotiated then Scotland can legally do the following :

      (a) – Claim a negotiated share of the BofE assets.
      (b) – Recover the deposit made equivalent to the total value of Scottish printed banknotes in circulation now held in the BofE vaults.
      (c) – Renege on the former UK’s national debt if they continue to claim to be the continued United Kingdom.
      (d) – The total value of actual exports from Scotland be removed from the economy of the English kingdom.

      With the debt that Westminster now runs the losses will see the English pound sink like a stone. Their credit rate will crash. All Scotland needs do is declare the already distinct Scots banknotes as the Pound Scottish and we have our own currency and it is up to us if we tie it to the pound English or not.

    51. Murray McCallum says:

      Well it’s good to have another so-called EU precondition exorcised.

    52. Konrad the wise warrior says:

      Picking up on a couple of comments here to the large numbers of postal vote requests and the very open possibility to play ballot fraud with it, because of the fake polls that have been fed to the populace through the MSM, if the (God forgive me!) no wins on 18/9 nobody from the masses would think it odd.

      It’s a very cunning plan – Hello Roderick! – that’s being deployed under our very eyes. Am I the only one to see it?

      We need a poll, commissioned by the Scottish Government, of a very large sample of the population to counter all these lies.

      The results from the canvassing are always staggeringly different from the polls, something’s got to give.

      Call me paranoid, but rUK without our oil, whisky export, tourism, clean energy, etc. will have it very hard to balance the books, comply with the Kyoto protocol, keep their ratings, etc.

      It’s not a battle to keep the UK, it’s a fight to the last blood for their sheer survival.

      I’m expecting the unthinkable.

    53. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This isn’t scientific. More to do with synchronicity, perhaps, but true all the same – waiting at the big roundabout just past the Stevenston Morrison’s, approx. 10.30 this morning, three of the four cars present (inc ours) were displaying the bright blue Yes stickers.

      They’re appearing everywhere.

    54. heedtracker says:

      @ Grouse Beater, At least once a week some banana brained ‘unionist’ enters the fray to taunt with a claim that is unsubstantiated or almost impossible to verify

      TaDaah! http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/

      I wish they all could be Slovenian

    55. Paula Rose says:

      Now dears – enjoy the adults playing games, because once the friendly games are over we will convince our fellow Scots to vote Yes. I’m off to the Brechin bop – more conversation and Yes voters.

    56. Jimmie says:

      ‘We need a poll, commissioned by the Scottish Government’

      They’ve already commissioned plenty of private polls, I don’t get why they don’t release them publicly, they would certainly counter the British state rigged polls showing that the no vote is ahead.

      But I suppose if they did release them then the msm would just claim they were ‘rigged’ or ‘false’ too.

    57. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      Can’t you hang about for 10 mins to see the 250,000th comment?

      It could well be one of yours.

    58. Wee Alex says:

      I was door knocking for the first time last week for Yes. A No voter was asked why. Because SNP will sell off the local school playing fields for houses if we get independence.

      A few doors away it was Catholic schools that were at risk.

      Labour had apparently been round the week before and used whatever misinformation they could get away with to undermine the Yes campaign.

      To quote the bible – Only The Truth Shall Make You Free!

    59. cal says:

      Doug McGregor
      If A.Darling says Yes side will stop at nothing as vote approaches that means that he and the No side will get increasingly desperate. It’s a classic case of projection AGAIN. Hold onto your hats!

      O/T Posted this on Stu’s last article but it was near the end so worth saying again,The Science Centre is now charging £15 to park!

    60. Jimmie says:

      @Robert Peffers

      ‘Renege on the former UK’s national debt if they continue to claim to be the continued United Kingdom’

      But if I’m understanding what you’re saying correctly, the UK would no longer exist after a yes vote, so how could anyone claim to be the ‘continuer’ of something that doesn’t exist?

      Who would we agree a currency union with, England?

    61. Paula Rose says:

      Ian honey – go on doll its all yours xx

    62. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      Me no want it – I’d like it to be a kismetish dod of inspiration from someone completely fresh…let’s just make sure it ain’t Edinburgh Dave!

    63. Lanarkist says:

      Again it all comes down to the rather unique configuration of the U.K, it’s relationship to the four Constituent Countries and it’s corrupt rules and regulations which ensure enrichment and power for the Hereditary a elite and their fixers.

      Scotland when Yes, uniquely is becoming Independent whilst in two Unions, the U.K and through them the E.U. We will be presenting both structures with new puzzles to solve or corrupt and asking questions not yet asked! Sounds good!

      We are unique as we are already E.U citizens, we do not want to leave, we are forbidden to ask them any pertinent questions directly, we are not allowed to create our own Central Bank as we already have one, The BOE which we will not be permitted use of even though we helped create it and assisted in its historic development.

      Anomalies in every direction! Sounds good.

      Vote Yes, change the UK, change the E.U by expanding its legislation to cover new realities giving more flexibility, change RUK in its relationship with us, Wales, N.I and E.U. Sounds good!

      I keep thinking back to reunification of W. Germany and E. Germany, communist country and leading capitalist country, never been considered before, no legislation directly for the unique situation, no application, no waiting list, no accession talks, just made real and solutions found because it logically worked for all interested and empathetic countries. Sounds good!

      Vote Yes, be amazed at the new landscapes that will unfold before your very eyes! In out, bank or no bank, currency, trade, borders, let’s see what we all can come up with, all of us, in creative new ideas and structures. The old ones are creaking and need upgrading! Sounds good!

      Looking forward to all of it, what great things wait for Yes!

    64. Paula Rose says:

      Ooh I could be famous, TJenny, Lesley-Anne come on girls its ours!

    65. Nana Smith says:

      I see there is to be a protest in parliament square tomorrow re the Gaza situation. The organisers are asking people to bring tents as they may be there for some time.

      The FM has sent a letter to Cameron to demand action…

      http://www.milngavieherald.co.uk/news/scottish-headlines/salmond-demands-action-on-gaza-1-3489147

    66. Paula Rose says:

      For St George and our lovely neighbours.

    67. Grouse Beater says:

      Heedtracker: I wish they all could be Slovenian

      A delight for Yes cheerleaders is to discover how many Unionist blogs are quite unreadable. The one you draw our attention to is a fine example of the genre.

      The writer’s message is lost by the way he presents his material and how easily he demonstrates he can’t write for toffee.

    68. Paula Rose says:

      xx

    69. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Grose Beater (8.25) –

      The 250,000th comment on WOS.

      Someone give that man a coconut!

    70. Ian Brotherhood says:

      PS

      Sorry – got too excited…’Grouse’ Beater, naturally.

    71. Paula Rose says:

      Time to dance xx

    72. Robert Peffers says:

      Whit fir div thae twa wee hoolets up yonder/|\ ainly hae ilka sham apiece?

      (owersettin intil the Inglis) “Why do those two small owls up there /|\ only have one leg each?”

      Many years ago my late wife and I were walking in the Royal mile during the Edinburgh festival. We were kidding around and doinig the Stanley Baxter Parliamo Weedgie patter. We were passing a tatshop with a disply of owls everywhere. The exchange went like this while each of us pointed at an owl – Me: “Hawhencudyegoahoolet”,Her: “Nawacudnaganahoolet”, Me: “Whitfircudyenoganahoolet”.

      At this point we became aware of a little girl watching us with her head going from one to the other as we spoke. The wee girl then burst out loudly to her mother, “Mummy, that man & lady called those owls, “hewlets”. To which the very English spoken mother replied, “Be quiet Elizabeth – they’re foreigners”.

      It really made our day and became a family joke.

    73. Jimmie says:

      ‘We are unique as we are already E.U citizens, we do not want to leave’

      Who says? Plenty of us would prefer Scotland to be a member of the EFTA like Norway rather than joining the EU.

    74. Lanarkist says:

      Alistair Darling is using his code cleverly nowadays! The Nats will get desperate, try anything as the deadline approaches! We must not politicise the CWG.

      They are getting desperate, they have tried everything and are now inventing new horrors, they are actively politicising the CWG.

      Defeat comes in small setbacks, failure by small oversights or misreadings of the evidence, death by a thousand cuts aimed at us is slowly killing their honour and integrity!

      The numbers for Yes must be good!

    75. westie7 says:

      O/T Daniel Wallace gold!!
      And if I can read lips just shouted “for freedom”

    76. Minty says:

      Westie – I saw that too! What an awesome swim!

    77. Juan P says:

      Just shouted “For freedom!”

      Commentators tried to claim they couldn’t make out what he said and was possibly swearing.

    78. Brian Mchugh says:

      Well done Dan… What a race 🙂

    79. Juan P says:

      Legend!

    80. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s a very special coconut for Grouse Beater:

      http://coconutoilking.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/coconutkinglogosolo-293×300.png

    81. bookie from hell says:

      I thought he said freedom—-need my sky +

    82. Lanarkist says:

      Jimmy, surveys and polls still point out that Scotland has a majority in favour of remaining in the EU, however you missed the point, we get to decide with a Yes, join, not join we decide, not Westminster, not a Government that is the opposite of what we vote for.

      We could be withdrawn against our wishes. With a Yes, which is the only thing important right now, all other things become secondary decisions, secondary agreements.

      We might even get the flavour of politics that represents the taste of Scotland, sounds good!

    83. Roughian says:

      Westie 7 just beat beat me to it ” for freedom”
      Well said Daniel Wallace had to play their game though when questioned ” you said flip at the end ” he said ” yes got a bit excited”!!

    84. O/T
      Wallace wins gold and cries “For Freedom” as he smashes both fists into the water.

      I wonder how the MSM will spin that.

    85. Grouse Beater says:

      Grouse Beater (8.25pm) – The 250,000th comment on WOS.

      Eh? Eek!

      All I can say is, thank gawd it’s one of the few posts without a typo. That aside, I’m honoured. I’d like to thank my agent, my lawyer, my mother without whom I’d not be here. Oh, and dad too, if onbly I knew who he was. Now I know you really, really, really love me.

      Feel as if I’ve wandered into a pub to be told I win the barrel of beer just for entering the place.

      Here’s to ther 18th – a hole in one! Hic!

    86. Marcia says:

      bookie from hell

      he shouted – ‘For Freedom’. He took lessons from the Lord Provist of Glasgow.

    87. Democracy Reborn says:

      Daniel Wallace just won gold for Scotland in 400 metres individual swimming medley, fantastic race.

      He put his arms up in pool at the end & I could swear he shouted “for freedom!”

    88. TheGreatBaldo says:

      OT

      Speaking of idiots here Thatchers biographer, Charles Moore….

      The kilt isn’t Scottish you know….

      Alex Salmond is Hugo Chavez….

      Oh yeah and see that Humza Yousaf, he’s got links to the Muslim Brotherhood dontcha know…

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/10991109/A-shameless-and-brilliant-bluff-from-Scotlands-Great-Pretender.html

    89. Castle Rock says:

      Did the BBC not like that!

      Great swim by Daniel Wallace and best shout of the games by a mile.

    90. bookie from hell says:

      Dan Wallace on medal platform now,expect a dood singalong

    91. packhorse pete says:

      Great work Stu. Shame on the pathetic and shameless hacks who are too lazy/incompetent/cowardly to emulate your work.
      O/T just put in a complaint to BBC, asking why, for a Scottish Games, all the commentators are English. Imagine the reverse at London 2012.

    92. TJenny says:

      And so the wee Jimmie starts to show his true colours. Next thing it’ll be it’s that Alicsammin and the SNP that want to keep us in EU without a referendum and (with apols to PR) proclaiming his, Jimmie’s, green credentials. 🙂

      (And I’m not even wearing 6th sense!).

    93. Jimmie says:

      ‘however you missed the point, we get to decide with a Yes, join, not join we decide’

      Aren’t the negotiations on EU membership going to take place between September and independence day in March 2016?

      The next election isn’t going to be until May 2016.

      When are we going to get to decide whether we want to become an EU member or not?

    94. David Doherty says:

      The premise of the ‘no entry without a central bank’ argument is stupid. If there is a Yes vote, all Scotland will need to do is start the process of becoming recognised and defined as an independent state, as it is already a member of the EU. Scotland is a country, within the sovereign nation-state of the United Kingdom. The UK-wide application to join the EEC was successful in 1973, with subsequent accession in 1993 to what is now the EU. Scotland was always part of this. So we have what we have through gradual change and agreement of new treaties with Europe, agreed by UK politicians acting on our behalf. Since Scotland is already an EU member as agreed through the United Kingdom, the process should be one of defining Scotland as a sovereign nation state rather than as a country that delegates political authority to Westminster. Ask any QC in Brussels and they will tell you that Scotland will have ‘automatic membership’ of the EU, most likely with some negotiation required on the details (for example fisheries, agricultural subsidies) but largely we will just have what we have now.

    95. bookie from hell says:

      What did Dan Wallace say at the end of that race? F*CKING H*LL was it? #glasgow2014 #swimming

    96. Juan P says:

      BBC now reporting he shouted:

      “We’re better together pooling and sharing our resources”.

      God, I feel like an idiot now.

    97. Sinky says:

      Congratulations on a wonderful performance after being written off by the BBC commentators. But a pity Ben Wallace couldn’t even mouth Flower of Scotland but to be fair he draped himself in a Saltire afterwards..

      Well done to Nicola at the presentation.

    98. Lanarkist says:

      Dear Jimmie, I am having that experience called déjà vu! Are you using a new name tonight or just a new slant on an old argument!

      After a Yes up until March 2016 we will still be Members, the negotiations will be over terms of extending this membership under new management or even the other side of the argument for negotiating terms to leave. But we get to be the central part of the process not an appendage with no voice!

      As I said secondary to Yes.

      If no your point is mute, we wait for Westminster to steer England to leave and they take us with them.

    99. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jimmie says: 25 July, 2014 at 8:19 pm:

      “But if I’m understanding what you’re saying correctly, the UK would no longer exist after a yes vote, so how could anyone claim to be the ‘continuer’ of something that doesn’t exist?”

      That’s the point, Jimmie.

      We quote them the bipartite Treaty of Union as our evidence that the union has disunited. If that is the case then both partners are liable for the debts and for a share of the assets. While their claim is, (with what as evidence?) that they are the continued state and Scotland is thus leaving behind the rUK.

      By claiming to be the continued UK England are accepting the whole UK debt and do so with Scotland having no debt.

      If they accept the UK is indeed disunited we do as we said we would – accept a fair share of the joint debt and a fair share of all the joint assets.

      They cannot have it both ways – if they claim to be the continued UK they pay the whole UK debts. If they agree we are disunited we share the debts and share the assets of the Treaty of union.

      For starters how can Scotland, (recorded as a country then named Caledonia), several hundred years before the Roman’s left and the Angles gave their name to south Britain, be a new country?

    100. Lanarkist says:

      Moot! Sorry predictive text!

    101. bookie from hell says:

      here’s the freedom moment

      https://vine.co/v/M0OgzQdAxnV

    102. Meindevon says:

      I’m pretty sure Wallace shouted ‘for freedom’ and couldn’t believe it when the commentator said he thought he had sworn!

    103. Dan Huil says:

      @ Jimmie Personally I think negotiations with the EU will take a wee while. However, even if the SG completes negotiations and Scotland officially enters/re-enters/stays in the EU before the 2016 election it will still be for the people of an independent Scotland to vote in 2016 for parties who want an independent Scotland to be outside the EU, or have the same arrangement as Norway, or be inside the EU.
      I have a feeling the EU might play it long in order to have the 2016 election settled and have the will of the people of Scotland clearly stated viz. the EU. Frankly I think there’s a lot of sense in waiting till after the 2016 elections if only to placate Eurosceptics into voting Yes.

    104. bookie from hell says:

      daily mail trashing dan Wallace already

      https://vine.co/v/M0OgzQdAxnV://mobile.twitter.com/MailSport

    105. Dan Huil says:

      @ Jimmie I forgot to state the obvious: if we vote No we have no say whatsoever, voting Yes gives the people of Scotland clout.

    106. bookie from hell says:

      daily mail 3 mins after he wins gold

      Homegrown hero! Dan Wallace claims Commonwealth Games gold in 400m IM (months after he was arrested in the US for urinating on a car…)

    107. glaswegian121 says:

      Vote Freedom by the looks of it is what he said.

    108. Cindie says:

      Here you go everyone, Daniel Wallace ‘for freedom’ https://vine.co/v/M0Ov9abVdxi

    109. Cindie says:

      snap @bookie from hell x

    110. Thepnr says:

      Well done Rev on getting the info that should but won’t embarrass anyone in our media.

      I don’t get though what all the fuss is about, during negotiations after a Yes, if it becomes obvious that the UK to spite their face stick with “No currency union”. Then surely a Scottish Government can form a central bank with no fuss whatsoever?

      It’s just another arm of government, Day 1 Scotland will have a central bank. Day 2 Scotland has a central bank.

      What’s complicated about that? Fuck all really.

    111. bookie from hell says:

      REV checkout dailymail tweet,about 3 mins after he won gold

    112. X_Sticks says:

      Meindevon says:

      I’m pretty sure Wallace shouted ‘for freedom’”

      Not for the first time 😉

    113. Murray McCallum says:

      I bet Daniel Wallace just made the top of every “list” going 🙂

    114. EdinScot says:

      Wallace wins gold in the pool for Scotland and immediately cries ‘for freedom’ lol. You couldnt make it up. Well done Dan, what an awesome swim that was after being 2 seconds down.

    115. Gfaetheblock says:

      Cuilean,

      You do realise that there are fundamental differences between retail, merchant, wholesale and central banks?

    116. Another Union Dividend says:

      Brilliant by “Freedom” Dan Wallace after being written off by BBC commentators

    117. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jimmie says: 25 July, 2014 at 8:31 pm

      “‘Who says? Plenty of us would prefer Scotland to be a member of the EFTA like Norway rather than joining the EU.”

      Who says, Jimmie, is a majority of Scots voters. Now ask yourself what the benefits of being like Norway really are? You do know what they are, don’t you, Jimmie?
      If not I suppose I’d better tell you what they are.

      EFTA states have jointly concluded free trade agreements with a number of other countries. The EFTA countries are part of the European Union’s internal market; Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway through the Agreement on a European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland through a set of bilateral agreements

      Norway, for example, opted NOT to become a full EU member but that means they pay exactly what they would have paid if they had been full members. In return for NOT joining they get NO say in the EU but must still comply with EU rules. Who the hell wants that?

      Oops! of course there’s Jimmie and“Plenty of us would prefer Scotland to be a member of the EFTA like Norway”, whoever, Jimmie & “US”, might be.

    118. Fergus Green says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood 8.07. I had a similar experience today. I parked in the car park at the King James VI Business Centre in Perth this afternoon. The 2 cars next to me had blue YES stickers. 3 in a row – its happening 🙂

    119. kendomacaroonbar says:

      @Konrad the wise

      I totally agree with you. Electoral fraud is the only way the No’s can win IMHO.

    120. galamcennalath says:

      Daniel Wallace. Hero of the day!

    121. Minty says:

      BBC Scotland actually reporting Dan Wallace’s real comments now. How painful for them.

    122. Another Union Dividend says:

      What is it about the Motherwell McFadden’s?

      After the Scottish internationalfootballer we now have a boxing hero who beat the World Champion just like James did against France.

    123. X_Sticks says:

      @bookie

      “No prizes for guessing what he will be voting for in the Scottish independence referendum later this month…”

      Have they pulled the referendum forward without telling us? Cunning plan.

    124. Clootie says:

      It is unfortunate that we don’t have any Scots who can present TV programmes from Glasgow.
      I would have thought we could have a little bit more effort to put a few Scottish voices to the front line!

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      @R whittington says: 25 July, 2014 at 7:18 pm

      “O/T but do any of you know the best and most cost effective way of sealing plaster? I’ve just had my back bedroom done and at £18 a ltr sealant is quite expensive. I have a small tub of PVA and also a bit of white emultion left over from a previous job that I’d prefer to use if possible. Any advice welcome..

      Wrong website – Try Numpties ?-US.

    126. Jimmie says:

      ‘Who says, Jimmie, is a majority of Scots voters’

      When, exactly, have a majority of Scots voter ever voted for Scotland to become a member of the EU? Or even expressed a preference electorally for such a proposal?

    127. Rock says:

      If I am not mistaken, the tiny state of Luxembourg had neither its own currency (used the Belgian franc or mark whatever it was) nor a central bank, yet has always been a member of the EU.

    128. velofello says:

      Central Bank. Definition: A bank owned by the state that determines monetary policy.

      So independent Scotland negotiates her share of the Bank of England, plus the Bank of England notes deposited as surety against all issued Scottish banknotes, and then decides to appoint a Scottish bank to Central Bank status.

      The Bank of England will as a consequence be diminished, but they’ll get by.

      My response to questions from the public on currency, sterling and currency union, shared or not, is that it doesn’t matter a damn. We’ll take your euros, dollars Yens or whatever provided they are convertible either way with the currency we choose to trade with.

    129. Jimmie says:

      ‘even if the SG completes negotiations and Scotland officially enters/re-enters/stays in the EU before the 2016 election it will still be for the people of an independent Scotland to vote in 2016 for parties who want an independent Scotland to be outside the EU’

      Are you serious? Do you realise how much economic (not to mention political and reputational) damage would be caused to Scotland if we become a member of the EU in March 2016 and then left it again just a few months later?!

    130. david says:

      Vote no, keep scotland english.

    131. Jimmie says:

      ‘if they claim to be the continued UK they pay the whole UK debts. If they agree we are disunited we share the debts and share the assets of the Treaty of union.’

      Okay, so you’re saying a yes vote will split about the UK and result in it no longer existing as a state?

      Presumably, by your logic, our share of the debts and the assets will be 50%, given that you’re claiming we’re one entity splitting into two equal parts?

    132. Jimmie says:

      ‘Since Scotland is already an EU member’

      Are you sure? I just checked the EU’s list of its members and Scotland isn’t one of them.

    133. Robert Peffers says:

      HandandShrimp says: 25 July, 2014 at 7:18 pm
      “No the central bank doesn’t have to bail out banks. The US let Lehman Brothers go to the wall. Iceland let their banks go to the wall, and jailed a few bankers.

      And the UK Central Bank didn’t bail out the UK banks either. The Treasury did that by forcing poorer tax payers into Austerity measures and by cutting the top tax rate for the richest. Then the Central Bank introduced Quantitative Easing to devalue the pound.

      Just another lie told by better together. In fact most of the bail out money came from other nations where the UK banks did business.

    134. Thepnr says:

      “FOR FREEDOM” by Dan Wallace. Absolutely brilliant. The games a bogey and BTNT will be binned.

      Thank You young man, we’re on the march to a better society.

    135. Castle Rock says:

      In amongst the tedious Jimmie trolling @David comes up with a cracker:

      “Vote no, keep scotland English”

      The BBC Scotland would be proud of that one.

      Brilliant humour.

    136. Michael McCabe says:

      I am not good with big words. So I will just use wee words. Well done Rev Stu. Vote Yes.

    137. david says:

      Vote yes for a scottish scotland.

    138. Bunter says:

      My timelines and twitter feeds are oozing pro indy feeling and pride tonight. Scotland awakes.

    139. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      https://vine.co/v/M0OiJv0Vnpe

      For freedon at the C G

    140. Robert Peffers says:

      @Heidthebaw says: 25 July, 2014 at 7:31 pm

      “I was at a public talk at Scotland House in Brussels which was attended by some big cheeses and impressive chaps where this question was raised, and the answer seemed to be that an independent Scotland using sterling unofficially would need to have an authority performing certain functions which normally a central bank would do, but it didn’t need to have an actual central bank.”

      Err! heidthebaw, The BofE didn’t bail out the United Kingdom banks. The UK Treasury, and the foreign countries where the UK banks did business, did the bail out.

      Just the same type of vicious rumour that the NO campaign spread that the bailed out banks were Scottish banks. There are no such things – all UK banks are registered to pay tax to the UK treasury

    141. david says:

      Thankyou castle rock. Very kind.

    142. bookie from hell says:

      NO camp have defence

      Dan Wallace probably yelled ‘for freedom’ because of his name and sense of humour, but just watch the #indyref people jump on it.

    143. Free Scotland says:

      The TSB could be our central bank – the bank that likes to say YES.

    144. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jimmie says: 25 July, 2014 at 7:37 pm

      “Your question has never been tested since all those countries acceding to the EU have had central banks’”

      Blethers, Jimmie, The facts are that the so called UK, “Central Bank”, did not bail out the banks. The main sum came from foreign countries where those banks did business. As for the UK banks that got into trouble it was the Government that bailed them out with the raised taxes on poorer people and austerity measures with poorer people’s incomes. Meanwhile they cut the tax for the most wealthy. Where the hell did you get your misinformation?

      The evidence is that the UK didn’t need a central bank to bail out failing banks.

    145. Jimmie says:

      ‘ if it becomes obvious that the UK to spite their face stick with “No currency union”. Then surely a Scottish Government can form a central bank with no fuss whatsoever?’

      According to definition, a central bank is:

      “a national bank that provides financial and banking services for its country’s government and commercial banking system, as well as implementing the government’s monetary policy and issuing currency”

      If we’re using sterling outside a currency union, the central bank we formed would be unable to carry out the latter two tasks.

      I don’t know if that would be a problem in regard to EU membership, as the article points out it is an untested point so no one knows if we’d be able to become an EU member with a central bank that couldn’t carry out two of its main functions.

    146. Faltdubh says:

      Very off topic, but anyone got quick links to debunk Unionist myths about food prices going up and the NHS (history of it being independently run in Scotland).

      In the just of it. A pal was at a “doo” where someone was mouthing off about this. My friend is a soft yes, and I want to send him some great e-mail with info about it, to nail it all.

      Any ideas folks where I can find some great artcles quotes to help back it oup?

      Much obliged.

    147. alexicon says:

      For anyone in seeing Daniel Wallace’s dedication.

      https://vine.co/v/M0OiJv0Vnpe

      First class and well done to him.
      I hope more Scottish athletes take his lead.

    148. alexicon says:

      Sorry I forgot the golden rule and didn’t have time to amend it.
      Just copy and paste.
      Forgive.

    149. Jimmie says:

      ‘Blethers, Jimmie’

      The quote you’ve highlighted isn’t from me, its from Graham Blythe, the head of the European Commission in Scotland – the person the above article is basing its points on.

      With respect, I think he knows significantly more about the EU than you, or any of us, don’t you think?

      Indeed I’d suggest you’re being very insulting and silly to call his opinion (and by definition, the author of the article’s too) ‘blethers’.

    150. Jimmie says:

      ‘The evidence is that the UK didn’t need a central bank to bail out failing banks.’

      What relevance does that have to question of whether an EU applicant needs a central bank in order to become an EU member or not?

    151. alexicon says:

      No need to, it links okay, but please forgive the bad English.
      Getting old you see. Well that’s my excuse anyway.

    152. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I believe the BBC 2014 programme last night was full of misinformation on opinion polls and on the betting market. I don’t know because I stopped watching it after the first few shows.
      I actually expect unionist journalists to be much better at it.

      However apparently,according to the script last night, the odds on NO were shortening and “The bookies always know”

      Er,no. I won as long ago as at Hamilton and them at Sillars Govan victory and at the 2011 election. I lost at the double Paisley by election but it was close run thing and we were winning at those with a week to go. In all cases the odds were ridiculous and all of us on the ground knew it. The bookies did not.

      However I am sure we now have a major effort going on to manipulate the odds for political reasons. We are having fantasy bets placed (or bets placed by the UK GovernmentI have watched over the past few weeks as the YES vote DEFINITELY grows while the odds on YES GO OUT!

      Get on now. To balance up a shortening on the NO vote they have to put out the YES vote.

      Best bets are 9/2 at Ladbrokes for YES win which is ridiculously generous and similarly generous is 10/1 for YES at over 55% of the vote.

    153. alexicon says:

      To be fair the BBC are showing Wallace’s gold medal winning race and his cry for freedom.

      Enjoy it while you can.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/commonwealth-games/28491606

    154. Bunter says:

      Scottish swimmer Wallace I fear is going to get monstered by the Britnat media.

    155. cal says:

      Faltdubh
      Just do a Wikipedia search for NHS Scotland to get it’s history. As far as food prices go, Newsnet had an article back in June covering this http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/8448-foof-prices-could-fall-in-independent-scotland

      Hope this helps.

    156. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Phew!

      That was a close run thing. When they were playing Flower of Scotland for swimmer Wallace the BBC just managed to clip off the soundtrack before the words “proud Edward’s army”

    157. Edward says:

      The media including the BBC now bending Daniel Wallace’s ‘Freedom’ and laying on the ‘Braveheart’ link, so in effect brushing it off

    158. Castle Rock says:

      @alexicon

      Yip, after the red, white and blue nonsense, union jacks and patronising shite from the BBC, Daniel Wallace was a breath of fresh air.

      I think most people want to see politics kept out of sport but given the GB guff we are being fed and faced with then its not too surprising that someone was going to make a statement.

      Hopefully more Scottish athletes will follow suit.

    159. cal says:

      Sorry “it’s”=”its”

    160. Edward says:

      I agree Castle Rock, I hope other Scottish Athletes are emboldened, the media will not be able to control

    161. Molly says:

      Faltdubh click on the Green Benches link above on the sidebar . The page which comes up tells you where the NHS is going ( or where the money anyway ) down south compared to the NHS in Scotland .

    162. Robert Peffers says:

      @David Doherty says: 25 July, 2014 at 8:57 pm
      “The premise of the ‘no entry without a central bank’ argument is stupid.”

      Great post David, but one wee error. The UK is NOT legally, “ the sovereign nation-state of the United Kingdom. “

      in England, “The Glorious Revolution”, 1688, deposed only the king of the Kingdom of England as the two kingdoms were not united until 1706/7. At that time the three country Kingdom of England became a, “Constitutional Monarchy”, when their parliament renoved the, “Divine Right”, from the joint monarchy of William & Mary. In Scotland, to this very day, the people of Scotland are legally sovereign. So Westminster is not sovereign over Scotland.

    163. Les Wilson says:

      Despite their want to keep out Saltires,at some of the finals with Scots there were hunners!

    164. Appleby says:

      All a country needs is a mint and sound economic control and levers. A country can issue its own money rather than relying on banks to produce it (as we do with the UK where the vast majoriy of money is produced from nothing via debt based and interest bearing methods – mortages, loans, etc.).

    165. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jimmie says: 25 July, 2014 at 9:57 pm‘:
      “Okay, so you’re saying a yes vote will split about the UK and result in it no longer existing as a state?”

      Jimmie, awa an bile yer heid. When you start telling me what you think I said, as if it was what I did say, I have no further motive to debate with you.
      Bye!

    166. Bob Sinclair says:

      Wee tip for all you Commonwealth games award ceremony attendees. At the next gold medal for Scotland sing the second verse first.

    167. Defo says:

      Free Scotland / Robert Peffers

      By my count, one of you 2 (free, i think) have the honour of posting comment 250,000.
      Thanks to Ian B for highlighting it yesterday.
      Surely that’s worth a gold badge Stu !

    168. Thepnr says:

      I’m saddened, well not really but I would have thought ALL wings readers would have known by now how to welcome trolls.

      Yesterdays disruption of an article was so bad it was probably the first one I haven’t read the comments in months.

      You do know don’t you that people are on the governments payroll to do exactly this type of thing and by your own responses many are actually encouraging them. Now no doubt that there are a number of posters here whose job it is to “argue” with the troll in order to encourage others to do the same.

      Wise up people, I really hope the threads between now and September 18th can be left free for us to comment on the actual article or other interesting insights that pop up on the debate.

      You are extremely foolish if you fall for their tricks and land on their hook. If you really want to make them sick, the infiltrators that is, the paid infiltrators. Then IGNORE THEM. There is nothing worse for their ego.

      Please don’t be a mug, don’t let them con you or wind you up.

      We have more important business to focus on.

    169. Sinky says:

      Molly says: where the NHS is going ( or where the money anyway ) down south compared to the NHS in Scotland …

      yes but my partner works in an NHS hospital and many nurses etc say they are voting No as they believe their Union / MSM / BBC and do not know the facts.

      The Scottish Government should be giving their employees the facts about a No vote because all the UK based commercial companies, aided by Labour supporting trade unions, are telling their employees that they will lose their jobs if Scotland votes Yes.

    170. caz-m says:

      I would like to see more Scottish fans in the arena’s start to get their YES material out.

      The place is covered in Union Jacks, which we all know is a reminder of the Union, so why cant we promote Independence.

      Either ban the Union Jack or let us fly our YES Saltires.

      I don’t have a ticket for any of the events but if I did I would proudly wave my YES Saltire and take the consequences for doing it. Think of the publicity it would generate.

    171. haud on the noo says:

      Thepnr / agree 100% . Personally I watch daily but work means I post little so the last thing I need is pages arguing with a plant. As the man says, wise up and ignore the bawbags.

    172. Chic McGregor says:

      In today’s Scotland ‘Facts are chiels that winna get published by the MSM’

    173. Jimmie says:

      ‘the people of Scotland are legally sovereign. So Westminster is not sovereign over Scotland’

      So why do we need the referendum then?

    174. Krackerman says:

      Jimmy – we need one so people like you recognise the fact…

    175. Jimmie says:

      ‘When you start telling me what you think I said, as if it was what I did say’

      I’m not telling you what you said, I’m asking for clarification.

      You talked about the UK becoming ‘disunited’ after a yes vote and us then sharing the assets and debts equally.

      So, does that mean the UK, as in the British state, will no longer exist? Is that what you’re saying?

    176. I take it Jimmie is Duggie is Douglas is Edinburgh Dave and many others. They all sing the same song.
      Is it a him or a them or a Machine ,someone said that she/he/them works in the potato business.

    177. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jimmie says: 25 July, 2014 at 9:51 pm
      “When, exactly, have a majority of Scots voter ever voted for Scotland to become a member of the EU? Or even expressed a preference electorally for such a proposal?

      At exactly the same time as they voted for a referendum on remaining, or not remaining, members of the United Kingdom.

    178. Roll_On_2014 says:

      Robert Peffers: at 10:22 pm

      Aye RB

      I am afraid that the UK PLC credit card is maxed out and the UK are indeed running on credit. The UK Debt ClockIs still running.

      Another factor about the ‘so called UK credit’. The interest payment of the UK debt is fast approaching £1bn per week.

      Just to put that into a more understandable context.

      £1bn = £1,000,000,000 per week.

    179. Big Jock says:

      The English love in continues on the highlights show.Did they give BBC Scotland staff 10 days annual leave for this.Right guys we are sending 600 staff up clear your desks.

    180. Defo says:

      O/t Establishment looking after their own again.. or possibly, what does Andy Coulson know and is threatening to tell.
      Since when has a trial judge given a flying feck about where the guily reside ?

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28487299

      18 months was a sick joke of a sentence.

    181. Roll_On_2014 says:

      Robert Peffers: at 10:22 pm

      Aye RB and let us not forget HBOS and for further clarification the UK bailed out RBS and HBOS to the tune of £64bn.

      Do you believe that this was the total bailout money these two banks received?

      The Federal Reserve has released details of more than 21,000 transactions after being forced by the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act to disclose which institutions it had bailed out in the financial turmoil since December 2007.

      RBS borrowed $446bn (£280bn)
      HBOS borrowed $181bn (£114bn)

      Total = £461bn

      So… who bailed out RBS and HBOS.

      The point is both these banks are not Scottish they are Global, they operate through the London Stock Exchange and are regulated (sic) by the Westminster government.

    182. liz g says:

      @ Thepnr 10.56

      Totally agree reading post after post from Troll’s is spoiling the debate.

    183. Jimmie says:

      ‘At exactly the same time as they voted for a referendum on remaining, or not remaining, members of the United Kingdom’

      But the entire yes campaign, including the SNP, have made absolutely clear that a yes vote in September is a vote for independence ALONE – nothing else: not EU membership, not Nato membership, not the SNP, not the SNP’s policies, not anyone else’s policies.

      Indeed the question itself – ‘Should Scotland be an independent country’ – makes absolutely no reference anywhere to whether it should become a member of the EU.

      So, with respect, you’re talking complete and utter mince.

    184. GrahamB says:

      Is this Central Bank / lender of last resort thing not really irrelevent anyway as in reality it is the Treasury or more accurately the taxpayers of any nation who are ultimately fiscaly responsible for the economy?
      And another thing, why did Jason Kenny (silver medal cyclist for England) have a Union Flag on his cycling helmet?

    185. Brian Mchugh says:

      Just watching the Levellers on BBC Caesar!… they would vote YES.

      Everything is so changing… something special hit me tonight.

    186. Thepnr says:

      FFS Krackerman/Scot Finlayson/Robert Peffers

      I take it I’m wasting my breath, DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.

      Why do you do it? Is it somehow you feel that if you win the argument haha, then you have done a good job?

      Use your common sense, is that too much to ask?

    187. Jimmie says:

      ‘Totally agree reading post after post from Troll’s is spoiling the debate.’

      Just for clarification, what exactly is a troll defined as on here, so I can recognise them in future?

      Is it someone who disagrees with anything the articles say, or with any aspect of the yes campaign or independence?

      In which case, if every such individual was ignored there would no longer be any ‘debate’ to be spoiled, surely?

      On the contrary, people who question and even criticise aspects of independence, or claims made in the articles or by the SNP, very much should be engaged with – exactly so that there CAN be debates on here, rather than everyone agreeing with each other all the time which would be very boring, and so that their questions and criticisms can be argued against in a respective manner.

    188. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thepnr says: 25 July, 2014 at 10:56 pm:

      “I’m saddened, well not really but I would have thought ALL wings readers would have known by now how to welcome trolls.

      Thepnr, Thing is, as long as you know the troll is a troll, then by keeping them busy you are keeping them from converting DKs.

      I’d warrant at least 99.9999% of the posters on Wings are certain YES. (That difference in the full number is the trolls we are keeping out of real mischief).

    189. Big Jock says:

      Well think of it this way.A troll on the internet must be the lowest form of pond life.Sometimes they drag us down but they have to wake up in their empty lives and realise that they have no identity and no friends.Are we going to win this.Dollars said we were and I always believe him when he talks about the real Scotland.On reflection there is no need for us to get angry No are finished.

    190. Castle Rock says:

      I hope someone takes it up Marcia but I’m still saddened that we need to do this kind of stuff in our own country.

      Scotland has come on leaps and bounds since ’79 but the BBC and the mainstream press (British establishment) still pull a lot of strings.

      The Labour Party are no longer the enemy as they are more or less spent, it’s the BBC propaganda and the British establishment that we need to fight against.

      Been saying this for 30 odd years, I hope I don’t have to say it after September.

    191. Thepnr says:

      Robert

      Thats not the point. their goal is to deflect us from the point of the article and to have us arguing amongst ourselves. The whole thread then becomes a mess, leave them to it, but please don’t engage with the paid infiltrators.

      That is what they are, just balnk them. Right now they are having a lugh at the posters here because so many are biting by taking the bait. Don’t be a complete mug and let’s make fools of them.

      They are easy to spot. If it smells like shite then it’s shite. No doubt about it. Let’s make them stand in the corner with a cone their head and ignore them.

    192. Big Jock says:

      That was Sillars damn you troll spell checkers!

    193. BigRik says:

      As i’ve said before.. if we ignore them , they’ll go away… probably come back with a different name though, but same old crap oozing from them. More to be pitied etc…

    194. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jimmie says: 25 July, 2014 at 11:05 pm:

      “the people of Scotland are legally sovereign.”

      Care to provide the evidence you base your apparent claim that Scotland’s people are NOT legally sovereign, Jimmie?

      You’re not much good at this trolling stuff, Jimmie.
      You’re just far too ignorant for the task.

    195. Castle Rock says:

      Anyways, @Thepnr has made the most valid and pertinent comments on this thread and I for one will be following his advice.

    196. Bob Sinclair says:

      At the risk of incurring the – ‘Wrath of Thepnr’ (that does sound vaguely Nordic Mythology) Jimmie, why dont you – no, im not going to use a sweary word – go away.

    197. Jimmie says:

      It appears that ‘thepnr’ seems to think anyone who dares to even question another poster on here is apparently a ‘troll’.

      Apparently pointing out the fact that the yes vote is a vote for independence and not for the EU makes someone a ‘troll’.

      Apparently pointing out the fact that Scotland is not currently a member of the EU makes someone a ‘troll’.

      This site is supposed to “actively welcome intelligent contributions from all sides of the political debate” isn’t it?

      It appears ‘thepnr’ wants to change the site into one in which we do nothing but mutually jerk each other off and praise each others claims, without any debate or questioning or valid insights or points.

      We won’t allow him to do so.

    198. msean says:

      Some of the assertions the trolls come away with would convert a no to a yes. One thing I have learned by reading wings is to accept nothing without evidence,then question where the evidence comes from. Works every time.

    199. caz-m says:

      Coulson, out of the fire and into the frying pan. He has to appear at Glasgow High Court on 6th August on Perjury charges.

      Scots judges/courts extremely hard on people who lie to them. Coulson could be looking at 2-3 Years in a Scots jail.

    200. BigRik says:

      And who is WE?

    201. Jimmie says:

      ‘Care to provide the evidence you base your apparent claim that Scotland’s people are NOT legally sovereign’

      Where did I make that claim?

    202. haud on the noo says:

      #### off ?

    203. Jimmie says:

      ‘And who is WE?’

      Anyone who wants this site to remain an insightful political website full of debate and questioning and good-natured disagreements, and not just the sterile boring unquestioning site full of drones who agree with whatever any else says like ‘thepnr’ wants it to be.

    204. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jimmie says: 25 July, 2014 at 11:27 pm:‘

      Bovine rectally sphinctered waste matter, James the troll.

      Yer bosses are not going to be please with you, James.

    205. liz g says:

      @ Robert Peffers 11.32

      Robert even if we are certain to vote yes it’s the exchange of information,and banter that helps to keep us going and lets us take a deep breath when it gets to us

      Reading Troll post’s is ok when they get answered two maybe three times but to go on and on and on is spoiling the diversity of the conversations

    206. bookie from hell says:

      #bbctrashdan

      Scotland’s third gold of the day came in the pool when Dan Wallace won the 400m Individual Medley.

      Wallace, 21, bellowed “for freedom!” after touching home to claim gold.

      It was a moment of redemption for the University of Florida student, who feared at one point this year that he would be axed from Team Scotland after he was arrested in the US for urinating on a police car and suspended by his American swim team.

      He said: “I just yelled at the top of my lungs ‘for freedom’ because being here, the home crowd has really brought out the Braveheart and Scot inside of me and I just soaked up the moment.”

    207. Big Jock says:

      Heres the thing .I steer clear of Better Together and all the other bigoted sites.Because I know that the people on there are generally anti Scottish and I’ll informed.Yet no people frequently come on Yes sites to gloat or stir.They want to poison our debate with their brainless bigoted outpourings.I suppose that reflects the difference between being British and Scottish.

    208. bookie from hell says:

      britnat nasty

      @ChristopherH_04

      What an embarrassment to the country Dan Wallace is. Shouting “for freedom”, British soldiers die for the freedom that allows him to swim

    209. Thepnr says:

      @liz g

      Thank you. Breath of fresh air and a dose of common sense.

    210. David Smith says:

      Well done Dan Wallace, you’re Scotland’s Tommie Smith! 🙂

    211. Flower of Scotland says:

      @Thepnr.

      I agree with you! I am getting really fed up with folk on here feeding the trolls! They stop the debate! Take note! That’s why they do it! So IGNORE!

    212. Robert Peffers says:

      @liz g says: 25 July, 2014 at 11:49

      “Reading Troll post’s is ok when they get answered two maybe three times but to go on and on and on is spoiling the diversity of the conversations”

      Now, Liz g, there were no posts I replied to that did not contain invalid truths. If the troll makes a false claim, and they all do. Then you, if you wish to scroll past it can. If YOU were unable to destroy the troll’s false facts you could learn how to counter his false information by seeing the counter argument.

    213. Brian Mchugh says:

      BigRik;”And who is WE?”

      …We are indeed, the people of Scotland… the people who live in this amazing country, no matter what your nationality mix is (wow isn’t it sad the unionists push me to feel like I had the need to confirm that point?

      …since ‘nationalism’ is only really an issue for the establishment nationalists who feel it absolutely and persistantly necessary to make that specific point… again… and again… and again… and agggggg… you get the drift, …who are us, the glorious mix of Scots from all walks of life to disagree?

      Who are we? …We are Scots who live in Scotland.

      Is that clear enough?

      Yes

    214. BigRik says:

      I don.t really care what happens after a YES vote.. all things are negotiable, i know it’s hard to believe , what with Scotland being the first country in the history of the world to want to run its own affairs ,but it might work… and, yes, the UK would cease to exist ,as Wales is a principality , and NI is a province. You can.t have a United Kingdom when there is only one, or you would have the United Kingdom of Belgium , or UK of Norway. So troll away, you will NEVER convince me that the current system is good for us. It is run by old school chums from the so called better schools , if they are that good , that would mean BoJo was one of the brightest….God help us all.

    215. Jimmie says:

      ‘Bovine rectally sphinctered waste matter’

      Look you’ve lost the argument, fair enough, move on. There’s no need to engage in such infantile abuse, it just makes you look like a sore loser.

    216. BigRik says:

      Sorry Brian.. i am definitely NOT a unionist 🙂

    217. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Jimmie there is no we in You sunshine noo take a hike

    218. Jimmie says:

      ‘there were no posts I replied to that did not contain invalid truths’

      Invalid truths like claiming a yes vote in the referendum is vote for EU membership for example?

    219. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      I see ‘I’m a yes supporter really’ Jimmie is on this thread too:-

      “So in other words, we’ve no idea whether Scotland will be able to become an EU member or not if its outside a currency union because its never been tested before?”

      No. We’d be a member because there is no stipulation for us to have one – so cant deny membership. They may insist one is set up, but that’s a different kettle of fish.

      “We need a poll, commissioned by the Scottish Government – They’ve already commissioned plenty of private polls, I don’t get why they don’t release them publicly, they would certainly counter the British state rigged polls showing that the no vote is ahead. But I suppose if they did release them then the msm would just claim they were ‘rigged’ or ‘false’ too.”

      The only poll that matters is on the 18th, but it’s the UK Government that’s commissioned over £300k of polls and given the answers to Better Together.

      But if I’m understanding what you’re saying correctly, the UK would no longer exist after a yes vote, so how could anyone claim to be the ‘continuer’ of something that doesn’t exist?

      No, you don’t understand.

      Splitting States can form either 1) A continuing state and a new state.

      Continuing states get all assets (except those physically located in the New State) and all liabilities, plus treaty obligations and memberships.

      New states get whats in their borders plus NO DEBT. They have to sign all new treaties, but this isn’t necessarily hard and having no debt is a big bonus.

      OR

      2) Two successor states

      Each state gets equal rights to assets, liabilities, memberships, treaties etc…

      The UK is trying to dictate what Scotland gets… it cant deny Scotland a share and claim successor status. It would be continuing and Scots would be New in that instance so no debt.

      “Who says? Plenty of us would prefer Scotland to be a member of the EFTA like Norway rather than joining the EU”

      We are in the EU. We will also remain in the EU for day 1 of independence. You will be free to campaign afterwards for political change.

      “When are we going to get to decide whether we want to become an EU member or not?”

      You can campaign for this in Manifestos of the political parties. We will be in the same position on day 1 as indy Scotland as we were as dependent Scotland.

      “Are you serious? Do you realise how much economic (not to mention political and reputational) damage would be caused to Scotland if we become a member of the EU in March 2016 and then left it again just a few months later?!”

      It takes several years to leave the EU, and you’d have to get support first to do so. It wont be a ‘FEW MONTHS’ as you say – if ever.

      “I just checked the EU’s list of its members and Scotland isn’t one of them.”

      What does it say on your passport… and are you Scottish, and do you live in Scotland…

      “If we’re using sterling outside a currency union, the central bank we formed would be unable to carry out the latter two tasks. I don’t know if that would be a problem in regard to EU membership, as the article points out it is an untested point so no one knows if we’d be able to become an EU member with a central bank that couldn’t carry out two of its main functions”

      Since having a Central bank isn’t a requirement (again) it doesn’t matter if it does anything or gives out icecream… red herring… Since its not a requirement, the terms of its existence aren’t either.

    220. Jimmie says:

      ‘yes, the UK would cease to exist’

      The UK state, as in the British state, or the UK as in the united kingdom of Scotland and England?

      Are you sure a referendum would be valid under international law and in the eyes of the UN and the democratic world if it resulted in a state ceasing to exist without 90% of that state being given a say on the matter?

      I’m not sure it would.

    221. Brian Mchugh says:

      Sorry BigRic, thought you were responding to something I posted… I missed some trolly thread there apparently (oops)

      …still stand by what I said though. 🙂

    222. liz g says:

      @ Thepnr 11.56

      Thanks

      Can I also point out my first EVER comment was a question
      answered by Duggie [first dug I met I did not like]
      It was not nice

      So while its is important to address their claim they could put someone new off posting again

    223. Big Jock says:

      I am a foreigner.All my ancestors are Irish but my grandad considered himself a Scot as does my dad.3 generations later here I am a Scot despite them.There is not a British bone in my body.I don’t get this UK family thing because I feel Celtic and have no connection to Anglo Saxon England or Anglo Saxon Scots.As far as I am aware all my relations live in Scotland.That’s just the way it is.The only time I go to England is if I have to.I don’t hate English people I just think there are more interesting countries to visit.When I go on holiday its the continent or at home but only once to England.So when independence comes I won’t shed any tears for the final death of the Empire.

    224. Robert Peffers says:

      Just reading the news item again, “UK Ecomony back at pre-crisis levels”.
      Hillarious! The debt is running at around a £1 billion per day. Yet the ONS are telling us we are doing better than we did before we needed to borrow a billion quid a day to reach that figure. And that’s without counting the interest needed to clear the debt off. Not to mention the devaluation of the pound since the crisis started.

      Think of it like this If you had £100 in a bank account before the crisis started what is it worth now in actual things it will buy?

    225. Paula Rose says:

      Darlings – lovely music in Brechin, a cathedral city, so what’s up? Trolls and stuff, dearest wingers – we are winning xxx

    226. Jimmie says:

      ‘We’d be a member because there is no stipulation for us to have one – so cant deny membership’

      Not according to Graham Blythe, who clearly states: “your question has never been tested since all those countries acceding to the EU have had central banks.”

      But I’m sure you know more about the EU than the head of the EC in Scotland don’t you.

      ‘We will be in the same position on day 1 as indy Scotland as we were as dependent Scotland.’

      Apart from the obvious difference that we aren’t currently a member of the EU and after independence we would be – without being given a choice on the matter.

      ‘What does it say on your passport’

      It’s a UK passport, obviously. The UK is the EU member, Scotland is PART of the UK member state, it is NOT a member of the EU itself. Its really not hard to comprehend – the EU’s OWN website clearly states who is and isn’t a member – Scotland isn’t.

      ‘Since having a Central bank isn’t a requirement’

      You’re really struggling with this aren’t you. For the second time, it has never been tested whether a central bank is a requirement or not – so we don’t currently know the answer.

    227. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      “Very off topic, but anyone got quick links to debunk Unionist myths about food prices going up and the NHS (history of it being independently run in Scotland).”

      Here:-

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-only-independence-can-save-our-nhs/

      &

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/war-on-satire-continues/

      &

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-status-quo/

    228. Paula Rose says:

      Jimmie dear – do you love your people?

    229. BigRik says:

      Careful Paula… i think i have been accused of infantile abuse…. i just can’t find it anywhere….. maybe he can read minds.

    230. a2 says:

      Dear Dick
      In response to you plastering Question, there’s two ways to go about this.

      1. Use whitewash which seems to have been the method used by your friends in the past.

      2. Ask experts in the appropriate positions which is most likely to deliver the correct and workable answer. (as ably demonstrated above.)

    231. Big Jock says:

      Yep damn right we are winning.The puppets parade at the common wealth opening tells you we are winning.They can paint our sky red white and blue all they want.This is an act of desperation as they had nowhere else to go.Its backfired.The best part is it shows you just how out of touch Whitehall is with what makes Scottish people tick.Why did BBC London take over our games?Because they think that by running it it will demonstrate their superiority over us.We are supposed to watch and say my god we Scots couldn’t do that without London.Instead Scots are angry that none are allowed to commentate on pour home games.Again it shows just how out of touch they are.They have seriously misread the mood in Scotland.

    232. Jimmie says:

      Quite simply, the other EU members, who will have to approve our membership unanimously, are not going to look too kindly on a state without a properly functioning central bank becoming an EU member.

      That doesn’t mean they will definitely decline our membership – they might work out a way for us to get it anyway – but it will certainly make it more difficult.

      One of the key requirements of the EU is monetary and financial stability – a state without a central bank that is able to issue its own currency or to regulate its own currency, or to implement the EU’s monetary legislation, or to regulate monetary policy, is at the very least at a disadvantage when it comes to applying for EU membership.

    233. David Smith says:

      I think the Rev must have installed one of those ‘mosquito’ things. I keep hearing an irritating high pitched noise…

    234. BigRik says:

      Sorry David , i had eggs for tea 🙂

    235. Paula Rose says:

      Jimmie dear – stop making a fool of yourself please, it’s embarrassing.

    236. Big Jock says:

      In hear that whirring noise as well.But I thought we were in week 3 of the current better together cycle? Is Europe not in week 4 usually.I thought it was border controls and foreigners in week 3?

    237. Paula Rose says:

      Big Jock dear – its hard to tell – maybe hard of hearing tomorrow.

    238. Flower of Scotland says:

      Away to bed thinking of Dan Wallace shouting ” freedom “!. Sometimes LESS is better. His FREEDOM went viral! Well done Dan!

    239. Paula Rose says:

      Nope – my money is on borders.

    240. Bruce Wallace says:

      Don’t knock the Trolls, I do like when their MSM sought arguments get crapped on by Stu and you evil lot 🙂
      I agree with Thepnr’s point, don’t feed them, Play with them first to out, them then leave be.

    241. a2 says:

      “I agree with you! I am getting really fed up with folk on here feeding the trolls! They stop the debate! Take note! That’s why they do it! So IGNORE!”

      Have to say unless it’s an obviously silly point that answering these folk serves two main and useful purposes.

      Firstly, it’s important to remember that the site has a huge readership and people are being directed here for answers. The primary purpose of the troll is not to wind you up but to seed doubt in the mind of the undecided. Ignoring them rather than answering and debunking their assertions (although it may be a bit repetitive and frustrating) allows that primary purpose to be achieved as it then appears to the new or casual visitor that they have a point and no-one has an answer.

      Secondly it allows us to think through and be aware of the answers to doubts that will be raised out in the real world and also make sure we do have information in areas that might be problematical.

      The very fact that this “useful Idiots” post exists shows how their input allows us to be ahead of the game. If the central bank issue is raised again, we all have the answer which we didn’t have before.

    242. liz g says:

      @ Robert Peffers 12.00am

      Robert the point is not if I could debunk the Troll’s but rather if I SHOULD

    243. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s one for ‘Jimmie’:

      Maya Angelou, ‘Love Liberates’ –

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbecKv2xR14

    244. Paula Rose says:

      a2 dear – am I not allowed to point out that wee Jimmie is a wee bit challenged?

    245. Defo says:

      a2, your right. Leaving unsubstantiated claims unanswered isn’t good, for precisely the reasons you give.
      However, and this is the nebulous bit, there comes a point where it becomes them taking over the thread. ie the “useful idiot” yesterday, and our other ‘friends’.
      Having Wings as a talking shop for like minded souls isn’t 100% a good thing. Great for those down days when the MSM pish is getting to you, but it doesn’t challenge the mind.
      Having genuine opposition here is a positive addition which IMHO should be welcomed. Trolls, paid, or just plain saddo’s however, should be shown the cold shoulder.
      Isn’t the definition of a troll, one who posts to provoke a negative reaction ?

    246. Croompenstein says:

      Jimmie you total prick let me tell you something you half arsed cunt. I was out tonight and met some wonderful folk from (hold your breath) England. I’m gonnae tell you this you and your ilk will never break the bonds we have on these islands NEVER!!

      We had a wee lassie from Atlanta in the company and she understood more about the democratic deficiency in our ‘state’ than you, you half arsed f*cker.

      I stuck up for you on the last thread you cunt is that what you do? laugh at the gullible jocks? Fuck you !!

    247. Paula Rose says:

      Defo dear – is it OK for me to take the proverbial out of young Jimmie?

    248. Paula Rose says:

      @ Croompenstein – honey doll, chill babe.

    249. Michael McCabe says:

      Only one thing to say to Jimmie. That’s Nice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JddNDtC-Yrs&feature=player_detailpage Vote Yes

    250. Defo says:

      Rip away Paula darling, i’m just a guest here. It’s Stuarts party.

      Croompenstein, is that alcohol I can smell pal ?
      Bedtime.

    251. Defo says:

      Afore I go… Cheers Michael. PQ should be fun on Sunday.

    252. Croompenstein says:

      @Paula Rose & Defo – Aye i’ve been out but it just rips me stickin up for Jimmie when he is a trolling f*cker. Don’t want to upset anyone (except Jimmie, Duggie, ED etc) but probably in the cold light of day I’ll get over it..

    253. Croompenstein says:

      Sorry Stu for losing it..

    254. bookie from hell says:

      Gary Lineker tweets

      Gold medallist Dan Wallace was arrested in Florida for urinating on a police car. Bet he pees in the pool!

      I’m not sure it’s official site

    255. Paula Rose says:

      Croompenstein honey – we will dance in the moonlight, an experience wee trollies will miss out on.

    256. bookie from hell says:

      Gary Lineker
      @GaryLineker
      Once kicked a ball about. Now talk about kicking a ball about. Still flogging spuds.
      12.5K
      TWEETS
      581
      FOLLOWING
      3.0M
      FOLLOWERS

      Follow

      Gary Lineker
      @GaryLineker
      Follow
      Gold medallist Dan Wallace was arrested in Florida for urinating on a police car. Bet he pees in the pool!
      12:46am – 26 Jul 14

    257. Jamie Arriere says:

      Another amazing result which you probably haven’t heard about, and won’t be shown on TV.

      Lawn bowls, Mens Pairs. Scotland trailed 15-7 with three ends to go, won 16-15 scoring a FIVE on the last end.

      http://results.glasgow2014.com/event/lawn_bowls/lbm002a13/mens_pairs___section_a_rd_4_match_1.html

      ps I walked along the length of Byres Road yesterday and checked out the window-poster count on one side of the road. Result Yes 9 BT/UKOK 0. Plus a big shout out to the house on London Road a stone’s throw from Celtic Park decked out in Yes saltires & Scotland flags. I salute you, sir

    258. goldenayr says:

      Here’s another one.A few inaccuracies but favourable.

      http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2551226

    259. nycgype says:

      I’ve not managed to read through all the comments yet but unfortunately I clicked on the Prof Adam Tomkins video link. Is this guy the Eddie Izzard of further education? Nothing to do with his dress sense but he is a rambling, comedic, mess of nothingness. Is anyone listening to him? At least he’s good for a chuckle.

    260. macart763m says:

      Nice one Rev. 😀

      I’d thought the whole Euro nonsense binned after Dr Zuleeg’s evidence given to the Scottish Parliament’s External Relations Committee, but apparently not.

    261. john king says:

      Fergus green says
      ” Ian Brotherhood 8.07. I had a similar experience today. I parked in the car park at the King James VI Business Centre in Perth this afternoon. The 2 cars next to me had blue YES stickers. 3 in a row – its happening :)”

      I was driving along a street yesterday I was canvassing a couple of weeks back and saw two yes posters in different windows,

      I drove on with a sense of satisfaction and a growing sense of calm.

      “Please don’t be a mug, don’t let them con you or wind you up.

      We have more important business to focus on.”

      What Thepnr says!

      O/t
      just watching a roundup () of yesterdays medal winners with swimming and judo highlights and the (Scottish ) commentator reports “another day of domination for the home nation” when he was rounding up his report, the (home nation) he was referring to was Great Britain since the filmed report closed with english judo athletes taking the applause from the crowd,
      since when was GB the home nation,
      THEY JUST CANT HELP THEMSELVES CAN THEY?

    262. James S says:

      Here is a quote from a BBC item called ‘English councils propose ‘Tesco tax’:

      Derby City Council wants the right to impose a levy on large supermarkets, retain the money raised, and use it to help the likes of small businesses.

      The extra business rates levy, of up to 8.5%, would affect any large retail outlet with a rateable value of more than £500,000.

      Ranjit Banwait, leader of Derby City Council, said communities in Scotland and Northern Ireland were “already benefiting” from the scheme.

      “The revenue that we’ll be able to generate will mean that we can support local businesses – especially small businesses,” he said..

      Which means that this is only news where they are

      https://archive.today/xb5lk

    263. jim arnott says:

      Re an earlier post about car stickers, we are off to Gairloch on holiday for three weeks and have blue car stickers on the car. I will report on sightings of stickers from other cars in the North West. I also acquired an Aye! tee-shirt which is already paying dividends by eliciting enquiries and a great deal of support. With early mornings and agreement from my wife I will be able to continue my Referendum work whilst on holiday then back to the real work of knocking on doors etc.

    264. john king says:

      Big Jock says
      “Why did BBC London take over our games?”

      I mentioned on an earlier post about my own involvement in the 1970 Commonwealth games in Edinburgh and we kids (boy scouts) were selected to go as errand boys and effectively the forerunners of today’s Clydesiders to smooth the way for the visiting teams and supporters,

      we all left with memories that will last a lifetime, I’ll never forget the moment when Lackie Stewart crossed the line in the ten thousand metres and he was handed a tartan clad teddy bear,
      I can tell you I was standing right next to the person who gave him that bear, aware the cameras were on me trying as hard as a fourteen year old could to look serious and not jump up and down waving like an idiot at the cameras shouting hello mum, (my mum did see me btw, damn sky for not being around then)

      One of my jobs was to run down to the “olivetti pool” under the stadium to deliver cans of film (what? yes indeed it was before satellite transmission)for transmission back to London so we could have the action shown on our screen in Scotland,
      and as nice as the presenters like David Colman, Ron Pickering, Peter Jones et al were (of whom almost all gave me ten shillings for taking the film down to the pool)were, even at that young age found myself wondering where Arthur Montford was and why was he NOT here? I could not understand why a Scottish event didn’t have Scottish commentators (of which there were plenty in those days ) to cover what was a Scottish event.

      the more things change the more they stay the same,
      as they say.

    265. Dan Huil says:

      First things first: Vote Yes.

    266. Phil Robertson says:

      What Mr Blyth’s replies seem to indicate is that the expectation of members is that they adopt the Euro. UK and Denmark positions are described as exceptional and those others not using the Euro have not YET met the criteria.

    267. Andy says:

      @Robert Peffers – you’ve claimed a few times that James VII wasn’t deposed as King of Scots. What, then, did the Claim of Right Act 1689, passed by the Scottish Parliament, do?

    268. Cair Dhomhnaill Broon says:

      Good research, as Dan says first thing is vote YES … the rest can be sorted later.

    269. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      For the benefit of Jimmie

      We’ve been canvassing for about two months. We’ve done the beat part of 2000 contacts. Nobody has mentioned Europe or the EU to us.
      (We have a significant YES lead)

      It’s just another of the red herrings that Better Together have been wasting their energy on – a bit like the currency diversion.
      Mrs McGinty doesn’t care what our currency is as long as she can get down to the Co-op and get her messages. In Dunoon we had thirty years of a dual currency zone which worked without problem on an everyday basis.

    270. Timorous beastie says:

      New posts, please share
      todayinscotland | The Referendum Blues
      https://todayinscotland.wordpress.com/

    271. MacTurk says:

      Thank you for clarifying that issue, which is often deployed by the ‘No” side as a supposedly clinching argument.

      And my compliments for going straight to the relevant source. This underlines your intelligence, and logical approach to issues.

      Now why is it that this sensible, and obvious approach is NOT used by the journalists in the UK who continue to pedple this particular canard?

      Is it because they couldn’t be bothered to challenge their conventional wisdom, or because they they are just too lazy?

    272. Douglas Kinloch says:

      well done but its ridiculous you have to do the msm and journalists work for them as they are either too lazy or too biased to get the facts for themselves , fantastic job again

    273. stephen pollock says:

      Hmm. There has been similar circumstances before as olli rehn said in his letter. Montenegro was given the requirement of a central bank as condition for their entry to eu.

      I guess the main point is how we could hope to meet the economic requirements and economic convergence without one.

    274. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Hmm. There has been similar circumstances before as olli rehn said in his letter. Montenegro was given the requirement of a central bank as condition for their entry to eu.

      I guess the main point is how we could hope to meet the economic requirements and economic convergence without one.”

      We are not Montenegro. It’s not an EU requirement, but they can choose to impose whatever conditions they want on individual applicants.

      A central bank simply isn’t necessary except in extreme emergencies, and it’s hard to see Scotland having one of those, especially if the banks do move their nameplates south.

    275. stephen pollock says:

      Without a central bank and we lose seiniorage, control of monetary policy (both supply of money and interest rate setting), we cannot affect exchange rates and thus our imports/exports price, we cannot issue short term cash to alleviate and credit crunches, we have no guaranteed lender of last resort pushing up spreads on our banks credit.

      To suggest you dont need a central bank is not really accurate.



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top