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Of no materiality

Posted on May 27, 2020 by

We’ve just learned that we’ve lost the appeal over our defamation by the then-Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale, when she repeatedly and publicly made the appalling, damaging and wholly untrue smear that I was a homophobe, even though the appeal judges all agreed with the original sheriff that the smear was false and defamatory.

But when it comes to deciding the verdict in a defamation case, it seems that the fact that absolutely everyone agrees I was definitely defamed is, to borrow a phrase from later in the judgement,“of no materiality”.

The appeal was purely a financial matter. Sheriff Nigel Ross, in his original finding a year ago, had already ruled against almost everything Dugdale had claimed.

He found that she HAD defamed me, that her allegation of homophobia was utterly untrue, that it was damaging to say such a thing, and that I was not someone so bereft of reputation that I could not be defamed, all of which she’d argued – yet then he let her off anyway, essentially on the  slightly worrying grounds that she was too stupid to understand what she’d said.

(“Most” in the above extract in fact means “any”. Not even the Stonewall definition, which was produced in court, offered anything that could be applied to the tweet.)

Extraordinarily, he’d then also not only awarded her all costs in the case, but added a 50% “uplift” to her QC’s already astronomical fees for the onerous and traumatic task of, um, having had to do his normal job in the normal way for his normal rates.

But entirely contrary to what some people have claimed, I found the original verdict a massive relief. To have officially lost and be landed with a huge bill was obviously upsetting, but I went to court to refute the claim that I was a homophobe, and in that respect I was completely vindicated by Sheriff Ross’s judgement. He ruled, absolutely unambiguously and unequivocally, that I was in fact someone who not only wasn’t homophobic, but who was completely committed to equality for gay people.

So as far as I was concerned, in all but the financial sense I’d won the case and the financial sense was – despite the vast sums involved – emotionally a trivial one. I wasn’t happy with the thought of handing a large chunk of the Wings Fighting Fund to Dugdale’s lawyers, but every step of the way I’d polled readers to decide whether to continue with the case or abandon it, and their votes had been overwhelmingly for the former. My conscience was clear.

(By contrast, neither Labour members nor Daily Record readers were consulted about whether they wanted to pour vast sums of money into Dugdale’s defence, and when Labour finally pulled the plug, having had her waste close to £100,000 on a failed attempt to stop the case reaching court at all, she reacted not with gratitude for so much funding but with sour complaints.)

So a vast burden lifted off me on the day of the judgement a year ago. I’d suffered badly from anxiety in the preceding two years – it affected my personal life severely, and it was only a diazepam prescription from my doctor that enabled me to make the long journey to Edinburgh for the case. And while there were several factors affecting that condition, including a ridiculous trumped-up arrest, by far the biggest fear that haunted me in that stressful period was the thought that a court would deem it lawful and proper for people to call me a homophobe for the rest of my life.

That allegation isn’t just false, it’s the polar opposite of the truth. It’s the most despicable lie anyone’s ever told about me. Since I was a teenager I’ve advocated and actively campaigned for equal rights for gay people, and been utterly repulsed and outraged by discrimination against anyone for their sexual orientation, just like I am by racism or sexism or religious bigotry or any other kind.

To be responsible for the most offensive and disgusting thing anyone’s ever said about me or done to me, as readers can possibly imagine, is no small achievement.

But when the person concerned is someone as loathsome in every conceivable way a human being as Kezia Dugdale, to have them weaponise hatred for the sake of a tiny, pointless bit of pathetic political pointscoring and because my site embarrassed her by repeatedly pointing out her ham-fisted lies, it somehow makes it even worse.

There are many, many people I dislike intensely in Scottish politics (to be honest the list of ones I don’t would be significantly shorter), but Dugdale is the most nauseating creature of all. Full of a child’s pouting, narcissistic malice but without a discernible scrap of adult intelligence, she blundered into embarrassing pratfall after embarrassing pratfall for every day of her disastrous leadership, which took Scottish Labour to spectacular new lows even after the catastrophic 2015 election.

The list of her U-turns and flip-flops and bare-faced hypocrisies is an almost endless one, whether the subject is second referendums or nuclear weapons or Jeremy Corbyn or voting for Tories or people rejected by voters at elections becoming MSPs anyway or just about anything else.

But unfortunately we live in a world where such things are the basic essence of politicians. To really plumb the depths and stand out as a piece of proper gutter trash you have to be prepared to both metaphorically and literally crawl on your hands and knees through a vat of stinking offal.

Because remarkably, abandoning her constituents for several weeks to go and be a “celebrity” on a degrading TV show wasn’t even nearly the worst of it.

The man Kezia Dugdale called her “best friend”, Gordon Aikman, had died of the truly monstrous illness that is Motor Neurone Disease just a few months before she ditched the people she was supposed to represent and went into the jungle.

But between his death and her appearance on the show, Dugdale quietly dropped her pledge to “as a matter of principle” donate all non-Parliamentary earnings to MND Scotland, so that she could cram almost all of the cash, bar one small token donation, into her own already-well-stuffed pockets.

(MSPs trouser a healthy salary of over £60,000 a year, plus expenses, with an extra £13,000 available to opposition party leaders. Dugdale’s partner is also an MSP.)

Readers, I swear quite a bit on social media – or to be accurate, I used to – and I’m sometimes pretty mean about people in the public eye when they behave badly, but the day I ever do something so flat-out contemptible as cheat my dead best friend’s charity out of tens of thousands of pounds to fight an awful, cruel, killer disease then you have my permission to come to my house and throw rotten fruit and rocks at me.

And yet even after that, while Wings remains a vile, untouchable black sheep, Dugdale is the darling of the Scottish media and establishment. Astonishingly and hilariously, after walking away from her constituents a second time she was rewarded with an even better-paid publicly-funded job in which she professed the intent to “rebuild faith in politics”, which is a bit like hiring Harold Shipman to rebuild faith in the NHS or putting Fred West and Josef Fritzl in charge of PR for the building trade.

(Dugdale has now been head of the John Smith Centre for almost a year. We’d quite like to hear of anything at all she’s done in the role during that time, let alone anything which has achieved that lofty aim.)

Dugdale’s torching of her “principles” was barely reported in the Scottish media, even though an SNP MP being involved in a charity which made supposedly low donations was a front-page story during Dugdale’s leadership. (Despite that one not being true.)

Dugdale wasn’t challenged over the Celebrity cash despite being Scottish Labour leader when her party had viciously and constantly castigated SNP politicians over extra-Parliamentary earnings, even when those earnings were for spending a couple of hours one day a week cutting constituents’ hair for a few quid to keep in touch with the community, or doing a dozen other things a thousand times more commendable than rooting around in fish guts for fame.

And when Sheriff Ross found that Dugdale had indeed defamed a journalist and member of the public with grotesque false allegations on national television and in the press, that same press and media then gave her literally hours of BBC Scotland interview time and column inches to chat about the case with sympathetic hacks and presenters, without ever once even being asked if she might now like to withdraw or apologise for the comments or reflect on what she’d done.

(Despite repeatedly asking and even contacting Ofcom, and despite having been found to have been the wronged party, I was never permitted to give my side on air. I strongly suspect that the same will happen again now.)

And in a comical final twist, after the sheriff’s judgement that her allegations of homophobia had been completely unfounded and defamatory, Dugdale – in a column for the Scotsman to which I was of course offered no right of reply – pulled a complete about-face and pretended that the case had never been about homophobia at all.

It is of course upsetting to lose to the worst person in Scottish politics – someone so awful even her own father wouldn’t back her. But it is important to note that the court has once again found that Kezia Dugdale defamed me.

Curiously, it has once again attached no importance to the fact that she flat-out lied that my tweet was part of a homophobic “tirade” of similar tweets, rather than a single tweet which she blatantly misrepresented because she didn’t know what the word “homophobia” meant.

I find this baffling. A single tweet could easily be (and was) misunderstood or twisted maliciously. A “tirade” would be much more likely to signify a view that someone genuinely held. This “error” by Dugdale – or as one might more properly call it, a lie, since absolutely nothing could possibly have given her grounds to believe there was more than one tweet – seems to entirely undermine the legal requirement that opinion be founded on accurate facts, and therefore the whole defence of fair comment.

(Absurdly, at the appeal her QC attempted to claim that because the tweet had been retweeted many times, that amounted to multiple separate tweets.)

But Lords Carloway, Brodie and Menzies get to decide that, not me, so that’s the story done. (They disagreed with Sheriff Ross only in so far as they thought an appropriate sum for damages would have been £5000, not the insulting £100 he suggested.)

While our case was clearly just, I hadn’t been building my hopes up. I truly wish I could feel more surprised that the sweary independence blogger had lost to the Unionist politician despite the court agreeing with everything we claimed. But that’s the Scottish establishment for you, and Wings can afford it. It’s not like there’s any prospect of the SNP bringing us another indyref that we’d have needed the cash for anyway.

(Here’s a fun true fact: Wings will almost certainly still have more money in the bank after paying the costs of this case than the SNP does. We should find out in August.)

I will of course watch keenly to see if anyone in the media who solicits a reaction from Dugdale will take the second opportunity to ask her if she retracts and/or apologises for defaming someone with grotesque falsehoods – something which according to the judgement is “not now disputed” by anyone involved.

One would imagine that “rebuilding faith in politics” would require that as a minimum. But perhaps that, too, is of no materiality.

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  1. 27 05 20 12:56

    Of no materiality | speymouth

  2. 21 09 20 13:37

    Liars gonna lie –

349 to “Of no materiality”

  1. Merkin Scot says:

    Sums it up nicely. See you in the Cancer Ward.

  2. John Lowe says:

    The whole case and reporting of it shows Scottish Establishment and SMSM is just as corrupt as UK MSM and Establishment

  3. Kevin Cargill says:

    Stu, as much as I rue the existence of the Union, perhaps now is the time make use of the Supreme Court. The bias within the close knit circle of judges in Scotland against anyone supportive of Alex Salmond is now so obvious that it must be tested by a higher and more distant court. Where the politics of Scotland really shouldn’t cloud anyone’s judgement.

  4. Lorenzo the Magnificent says:

    Stuey is a hero

  5. ahundredthidiot says:

    We all know who’s the cunt

  6. winifred mccartney says:

    There is no doubt when up against the establishment you will never win – they have to protect themselves or it will be like the house of cards and the whole rotten edifice will collapse.

    Even just removing the costs she got would have meant the ‘now not disputed’ defaming of you would have been a good outcome but they could not do even that because a crack will become a chasm and they know it.

    You are a brave man and you are still supported.

  7. Dan Yell says:

    Thank you for wasting the judiciary’s time and resources over your hurty feelings, not to mention the funds that the drivelling lemmings around here throw at you. You stupid, arrogant, imperious tosser, everyone with the most fleeting understanding delictual law k ew you would lose this and told you so. You have long since outlived your usefulness to the Indy movement, fuck off into a hole and write a The Man’s Daddy musical with Graham Linehan or something. Arsehole.

  8. Astonished says:

    I must say I am shocked by this.

    I would suggest you forget most of this – just remember the judges names.

    Revenge is best served ……

  9. Giesabrek says:

    Between this and the poor response by COPFS there really is no impartiality in the Scottish judicial system any more. It’s clear that those who support independence will be dealt with more harshly, even if they win their defamation case.

    Ironically, and in agreement with Kevin Cargill, I have no doubt you’d have received a far more impartial decision in the English courts.

    The stink of corrupt unionism is all over the entire Scottish judicial system.

  10. Heaver says:

    Thankyou for shining light into the bowels of what goes on Stu. I point people at your blog every vaguely relevant opportunity.

  11. Terry says:

    Thank you for pursuing this and so sad to hear how much it affected you. However you’ve shone a light on the corruption that is endemic in the Scottish establishment which the case against Alex has also highlighted.

    It sticks in my craw all of this – sickening – but you know if you need us for anything you just need to shout.

  12. Giesabrek says:

    Looks like Dan Yell’s feelings have been hurt, poor petal. Try taking up yoga Dan, you might learn to chill out.

  13. SlimJimmy says:

    You’re a good man Stu,nothing can change that fact.

  14. Meindevon says:

    Not sure what to say, Rev. It’s just scary, to be honest.

    The establishment, I understand, are out to get you, but that the political party who are supposed to want Scottish independence as much you have not backed you in any way is telling. I hope you keep going but your health comes first. Although without you I fear the establishment will win. (Sorry, no pressure)

    How about joining forces with others and share the load? You may do that already I guess.

  15. Ian Foulds says:

    100% agree with all of the above.

    The Labour person is not even worthy of contempt and I hae ma doots about the Scottish Judiciary and Establishment.

  16. Bob Mack says:

    I strongly suspect the Establishment really,really don’t like you!!!

    Nothing at all to do with justice as you will have noted from the replies you received from cps.

  17. Athanasius says:

    Lot of work needs to be done in Scotland…

  18. Bob Mack says:

    @Dan Yell,

    Are you a judge in your day job by any chance?

  19. Mountain shadow says:

    I’m well confused.

    Just to confirm.

    The court has confirmed that you were defamed and would have awarded 5k in compensation, but you still have to pay all costs plus the uplift?

  20. Rita says:

    Re perverse judgement, just donated £5. But then got this message “this account has been suspended” ?

  21. mogabee says:

    No matter what the ranting Dans of the universe say, you were wronged.

    I hold on to the facts that nae fucker has done more for the independence movement than you and this site.

    If swearing was an art form you are pretty high up there and I for one wouldn’t want you any other way! Facts matter and that’s why I trust you.

  22. John Thomson says:

    Stu our time will come of that I am certain, for now stay strong my friend.

  23. Yona says:

    I’m sorry. Unjust. A Bastard Verdict.

  24. liz says:

    My heart sank with this news. I’m glad you are mentally happier whilst being out of pocket.

    It just goes to show the law is not for the plebs.

  25. lothianlad says:

    I Applaud you as much as I can. Your post is completely accurate.
    Dugdale is by quite a distance, the thickest ‘politician’ I have ever seen.

    That’s quite a statement given the utterly abysmal lack of talent vast numbers of politicians have!

    Of course it is no surprise that the ‘Scottish’ establishment and so called media have closed rank. That is to be expected. that’s what they do. The secret here is to know deep down that you spoke the truth and that you have the moral high ground.

    That’s why so many here support you and the great work you do. you challenge the corrupt!!

    The media and the political classes, including the current SNP SG, should be, but wont be, challenging the rotten, stinking, corrupt legal system and it allies in the media.

    The are the establishment and they don’t take kindly to being challenged and exposed.

    Its sickening to the core that the SNP SG, have become an integral part of that establishment!

    We… as people who support you, need to keep supporting you, Craig Murray, Mark Hirst, Alex Salmond and others who challenge and expose the corruption within the Scottish establishment.

    Its important to look after you own well being and get energised for the coming fight, where we can hopefully expose and remove the corruption in the New Free Scotland we all aim for.

    Always remember, that YOU and those like you are and Will be held in such high regard in the cause of Independence.

    I had forgotten about K.D. until you mentioned her. I sure everyone else has.

    A typical LEECH on the public purse, supported by other influential leeches, with no brains or morals.

    Keep up the great work.

  26. Dan says:

    An inevitable conclusion imo.
    I bucked the trend and stated after the initial verdict I was against making the appeal for various reasons.

    Namely, the initial verdict effectively cleared you, albeit it in their couched terms and ways.
    You’re playing on their pitch with their rules.
    I understand the principle of taking it further to make a point or collectively build a pile of contentious verdicts to highlight bias, but it was clear then as it is evermore now that anyone Pro-Indy appears to be treated differently from other folk that maintain the status quo.
    It was always going to hoover up funds such is the massive disparity in the costs per hour of legals compared to say you’re average worker. The poor can’t afford lawyers and all that…
    I also felt your skills and time could be far more positively utilised on something you were motivated to do for the movement on your own terms.
    My last but main reason was for that of your health and well-being with the negative stressful effects you would be enduring through the quagmire of an appeal process. The fact you now elude to suffering anxiety and taking some medication confirms I wasn’t far off the mark.
    Don’t let the buggers grind you down.

  27. Effijy says:

    I’m absolutely sick reading this.

    I find myself to be both insecure and vulnerable.

    There is only the pretence of justice, of honesty and of equality.

    Your innocence in this matter is more glaring than the nose on my face,
    The fact that Cummings broke the lockdown rules equally as obvious and
    Unquestionable, and yet we find ourselves told that we no longer understand
    The meanings of words in our Mother tongue, you should not get involved in
    These matters you have no right and if you are told 2 and 2 makes 5 this week and
    6 next week that is it finished.

    Life as we thought we knew it never actually existed and the roots of the corrupt establishment
    We live in see are too deep, too widespread and rich in nourishment to be killed

    I’ve never been so frustrated and depressed
    but I fight on to the death if necessary.

  28. SandyW says:


    Genuinely sorry that you’re health was so badly affected by this case.

    I hope that whenever Dugdale raises her ugly presence, we will all take the opportunity to remind her of this episode (maybe posting a link to this article where possible?).

  29. Sarah says:

    Gutted and surprised – I honestly thought the three top judges would rectify the Sheriff’s error.

    However the law is not able to deliver justice in all cases. So I think it is a matter of biding your time for a better opportunity to punish M/s Dugdale for being what she is i.e. a thoroughly unsuitable person to hold a public role.

    Meanwhile take a deep breath and try to feel all the good vibes coming your way. [And I’m looking forward to your next crowdfunder…]

  30. Dan Yell says:

    @Giesabrek, I wrote this comment on the article “The Screw” last June, where Rev canvassed opinion on a potential appeal:

    “ If given leave to appeal, you will lose. And I highly doubt you will be given leave, because despite how counterintuitive, if not perverse people here find the decision, you will have difficulty showing that there is a reasonable chance the Sheriff has erred on the law. No precedent has been set by the judgement. The case law relating to fair comment is sparse, but it is also clear. The Sheriff’s judgement is highly coloured by the principlestare decisis. Chalk it up to a rigged system if you must

    I’m one of the Indy supporters who doesn’t like you, Stuart, and I know I’ll have scant credibility with a lot of the BTL folk here because of this. But I’m asking you in all sincerity not to use any more funds pursuing this matter.”
    When covering the Salmond case, Stu made the claim that the complainers has caused taxpayers’ money to be wasted on the judicial proceedings. Everyone here who agrees with that but blew smoke up his arse over this appeal Should be ashamed. So too should everyone who believes, as I do, that the civic tradition in Scotland makes us politically remote from rUK but that this affair reeks of establishment stitch-up. The fucking common law was all there, if any of you had been arsed to read it up you would not have been remotely surprised, let alone scandalised, that Stu lost the initial case or the appeal.

  31. Dogbiscuit says:

    Dugdale is driven by the moral imperatives of a crack whore the daughter I mean.

  32. Dogbiscuit says:

    The female Dick Dastardly.

  33. Sharny Dubs says:

    Stu sorry for the stress you had to go through, but it does serve a purpose, anyone pursuing a similar course will know ahead of time that the deck is stacked against them. So it has produced results.

    As for the Scottish legal system? Well there seems to be little difference between them and the architects of the highland clearances, little to be proud of, in fact quite the opposite. How anyone can hope for justice, it is simply shameful and embarrassing on a national level.

    As for the wee tollie? Less said about her the better.

  34. Ian McCubbin says:

    The Scottish establishment has always been rotten to the core

    I won a disability appeal at employment tribunal and while Lady Stacey, the judge laid bare the lies of my harrassers she only set it out for a further hearing.
    I was set for this when at penultimate time Perth and Kinross Council made an out of court settlement, which I took.
    They also mucked up a gagging clause so I am able to continually expose and name the bullies and do.

    The comfort is even the corrupt establisent foul up and leave themsves exposed to ridcule and continued public shaming

    Boris the Feart being the current best example
    Be proud Stu of taking her on and beating her.

  35. Dogbiscuit says:

    I despise dirty politicians. Still no word on that 10 grand that was magicked out of her constituency office?

  36. Dogbiscuit says:

    Dan Yell your arse looks fat in that dress and that handbag?Crocodile skin really?

  37. Republicofscotland says:

    A truly vile creature Dugdale, promising then with holding money to a charity how disgusting, as a politician she was hopeless as well. It good that you can relax a wee bit now Rev, as the stress and strains of it all abates.

    You’ve cleared your name, though you didn’t receive any financial compensation, such is the truly awful antics of Scots law. On the upside the Daily Record, the Herald and the London Labour branch office in Scotland are in terminal decline.

  38. Bob Mack says:

    @Dan Yell,

    Stu didn’t waste taxpayers money though,did he?/He used our donations which we have willingly given to him.

    Anybody who didn’t agree had opportunity to say so and even ask for refund.

    Why are you do angry then?

  39. Dan Yell says:

    @Bob Mack yeah, and where do you think the money for court personnel and overheads comes from?

  40. McDuff says:

    I would never have believed that this country’s government, media and especially the judiciary could sink so low.
    They are without doubt devoid of any integrity, honesty or decency and belong in the gutter. ALex Salmond Craig Murray and the Rev, it makes me sick.

  41. Dogbiscuit says:

    Politically remote from rUK? Bollocks darling.

  42. Habib Steele says:

    I’m angry at those judges and their refusal to undo the financial damage to you and Wings. I’d like to do something about it, but feel totally helpless. I take satisfaction in the part of the judgement that concurs with the earlier one; you are innocent!

  43. Murdo Ritchie says:

    The earlier decision cleared you of the accusation of homophobia, but described Dugdale’s statement as “fair comment.” Perhaps I have misunderstood this, understandably because of the poor reporting. But did the appeal decision include any explanation of how a false statement could be described as “fair comment?”

  44. Bob Mack says:

    @Dan Yell,

    Same place as for any case. That’s how it works.

  45. shug says:

    It is to your great credit the establishment hate you. You must be doing something right
    You must put it behind you and move onto the next battle.
    The Dugdale’s of this world will be remembered for the people they are.
    When independence comes a retrospective review and checking the e mails will determine who did what and why.
    I must dig out a copy of the proscription acts

  46. Dan Yell says:

    @Dogbiscuit if that’s what you think why do you even support Independence?

  47. Patsy says:

    Bummer for you but know that you still have people including me who still support you. Stay strong and sending best wishes.

  48. craig sheridan says:

    You’re doing a great job. If we have to take this injustice on the chin so be it. We’ll win in the end.

  49. The Isolator says:

    @Dan Yell,

    You clearly have a problem with a citizen having access to the law.Do fuck off old chap!

  50. Barry Farquharson says:

    “yeah, and where do you think the money for court personnel and overheads comes from?”

    Surely those court personnel would have been working on some other case filling that same time slot, generating overheads, so the money would’ve been spent anyway. No?

  51. Patrick Roden says:

    I had two concerns about this case:

    1. there would be an establishment fit-up and the Rev would lose, no matter how sound his case was.

    2. The case would have a detrimental effect on the Revs mental health.

    I’m not in the least surprised to hear about both of these concerns being proven true but delighted that it has been proven in a hostile court of Law that you are not a Homophobe.

    I know that some of the more despicable sections of social media in Scotland, had been repeatedly making this claim, so at least this judgement had ensured that any attempt to do this now will leave them open to litigation.

  52. Proud Cybernat says:

    Methinks Dan is desperate.

  53. Patrick Roden says:

    The sad thing is, I bet Dan Yell, works within the SNP or is part of ‘The woke that gives us the boak’ brigade!

    As pathetic as it is predictable.

  54. dramfineday says:

    It’ll grate and it’ll itch for a very long time Staurt. And there will be smirks and cracks from the vile to contend with. BUT your name is clear. Settle for that, for the time being.

  55. Morgatron says:

    A social distance high 5 from me to you Stu. Justice – that’s a bloody laugh these days. Keep up the good & true fight, stay well and healthy and hopefully when someone eventually blows the whistle to start our march to independence you will be at the helm guiding and shining a light on people like Dugdales shite.

  56. Bob Mack says:

    Is Dan Yell the phonetic for Daniel. I know of one such who fell out with Wings some time ago

  57. Graham Ballantyne says:

    It’s downright irrational for a court to decide that a statement is defamatory but, hey, it doesn’t really matter.
    As someone suggested, an appeal to the Supreme Court might be worth considering in the hope that that level of judicial stupidity won’t exist in every available court.

    Great takedown of one of the most loathsome and clueless individuals in Scottish politics who looks set to continue feeding at the trough for some time to come.
    I hope you’ll be back on Twitter before long.

  58. ALANM says:

    If one good thing comes out of all this it’ll be that funds intended and required to promote independence should never again be used to line the pockets of the legal establishment.

    Has anybody kept count of all the cases which have been brought before the courts down the years, the success rate (which I believe is zero) and the financial cost of all those defeats? I donated a couple of times myself but quickly learned there’s no point in playing the game if you’re never allowed to win.

  59. ahundredthidiot says:

    Dan Yell is entitled to his/her opinion, of course, because we are a free, fair, liberal and open indeed site.

    The Rev Stu’s case was well worth the spend – just look at what has been uncovered – supported by both AS case and the shameful treatment of Craig Murray.

    We are up against a very determined and nasty enemy which has it’s claws inside our political and judiciary systems (for now), so every blow is worth it – what say you Dan Yell – do you agree? – or are you one of ‘them’?

  60. David Rodgers says:

    for this case state court expenses and suchlike are paid for anyway as part of government expenditure on judges and other staff. However in the Alex Salmond case there seem to be a whole lot more resources applied eg all the police and intelligence officers who spent over a year digging up ‘evidence’.

  61. jfngw says:

    Unfortunately it was always going to be the outcome, taking on an establishment that has taken on a former First Minister is not going to come down on your side. You may have cleared your name in law but it will be cross referenced by the media as the case you lost, the inference will be you were not cleared. The odds of winning Euro millions is probably lower.

  62. Bob Mack says:

    Funds required to promote Independence would mean nothing if the writer of the most influential Indy blog had been discredited completely. This had to be fought.

    Ps Have you seen anyone describe Stu as a homophobe over the last few months? Bet not. That’s the effect.

  63. Willie says:

    A rigged and rotten judiciary. Just like the prosecutors and the political police units who pursue dissident journalists.

    The Diplock court system was used in NI to detain dissident politicians. And we also all remember the television interviews with ‘ the voice of an actor’

    It’s establishment anarchy and it shows that they will stop at nothing. Against this background it is right and just that ordinary people resist this anarchy. The rule of law, good law, not rotten and corrupt law, should prevail.

    The result of this appeal is in many ways immaterial. Like Dominic Cummings you can break the law without fear of amy sanction. And this appeal brought that into sharp focus.

    Do not expect justice in the rotten burgh that is the Scottish judiciary. It is traduced to a rotten shell by men equally rotten to their very core.

  64. Confused says:


    – back of the net. The REVS pen is still sharp, tho by now it might have to be a BIC and not a Mont Blanc.

    Keza, WILL read this, at some point – she will not be able to help herself, and her ears will burn.

    Some good lines – ? e.g. childlike narcissism … without adult intelligence …

    yup, nails it.

    – I noticed long ago, she just seems to do or say anything she likes and she just, gurns, wide-eyed, as if to say … “Im just a girly (tee hee)”

  65. Dogbiscuit says:

    Danny. What I mean is it would be good to free ourselves from London and also the Gauleiters in Holyrood. The Scots need a more revolutionary spirit instead of cowtowing to social distancing and being programmed to wear masks.

  66. johnj says:

    Crowdfunder for an appeal to Supreme Court?

  67. jfngw says:

    Dugdale is untouchable now within a think tank, the irony, to be rolled out by the media in Scotland as an impartial commentator at the election next year.

  68. Dogbiscuit says:

    Nicola Sturgeon.Did you fire Fanny Danny into here as our warm up?

  69. Dogbiscuit says:

    You really are a ruthless operator aren’t you Ms Sturgeon? Ha!

  70. Helena Brown says:

    There is no justice in Scotland, there certainly isn’t any for those who believe in Independence. What can you expect from a small cliche of people,many who went not only to the same private school, but indeed the same class. I hate to say that the other problem we have here is the Freemasons and they work much further down the food chain.
    I did hope that my thoughts would be proven wrong, obviously not.
    Let us know if you need a financial hand.

  71. SilverDarling says:

    What a shit show the law is. You do wonder who it is actually for.

    The letter of the law can be adhered to regarding the verdict but they can and will punish you financially you uppity jock.

    Imagine having the temerity to try to defend yourself when ‘people who don’t like you’ knew you would fail all along? Regarding the old wasting taxpayers money line, welI am a taxpayer and I do not object one bit to someone taking this on. Of course personal enmity was at the core of this case on the part of Dugdale but apparently Stu should not defend himself based on some people’s personal dislike of him and his views. Access to the law for the purity police but not for us?

    No matter what Kezia Dugdale’s lack of integrity and numerous failures will be remembered – we will make sure of that.

    I hope you will be OK Stu and I cannot imagine what the last few years have been like. Craig Murray and Mark Hirst are the next in line.

  72. Republicofscotland says:

    Dan Yell@ 11.20am.

    You sound like a very charming person, sounds to me as though Stu has hit a nerve with you somewhere along the line, or maybe you’ve just been an arsehole all your life, me I think the latter is by far the more likely.

    Oh and Dan, fuck off, and when you get there fuck off some more, until you can’t fuck off any further.

  73. Mike R says:

    Rev hope you didn’t see the one sided 2 mins BBC Scotland news just played about this. Grrrrr

  74. jfngw says:

    Just to prove my comment at 1:24, BBC Reporting Scotland did exactly as I predicted, mentioned the fair comment but not the actual ruling therefore leaving the impression of guilt.

  75. North chiel says:

    The Britnat propaganda outlet at Pathetic Quay only too happy to “ inform “ us that the judge said that Dugdale’ s words were “ fair comment” ( lunchtime propaganda bulletin). Also “ Glen doom & gloom Campbell “ only “ too happy” to inform us that the latest survey on business confidence was dire. Which just about equates to what emanates from “ Britnat HQ , Pathetic Quay.

  76. Famous15 says:

    So it all comes down to ,if you are too stupid to understand what you were saying you cannot commit defamation.

    Unlike the BBC saying Kezia Dugdale in saying Campbell was homophobic was fair comment.

  77. Bob Mack says:

    What’s Doug Daniel doing these days?

  78. Republicofscotland says:


    Are you listening Sturgeon get your finger out or stand aside for someone who can.

  79. Mark Robertson says:

    @ bob mack
    Scots fighting scots is called divide and conquer! Im sure you have heard of the term
    The same judicial system managed to clear ALEX , albeit with a jury and not judges alone decision !
    TBH i did agree and support stuarts cause in those long time ago circumstances ,however now i am seeing a divisive slant from stu and i dont like it !
    He yaks on about self interest of nicola / snp members and yet does the same thing himself in his self promoting blog
    I really dont give a fuck about weather stu is a homophobe or not but i do give a fuck about Scotland being independent big TIME
    If stu is fighting the Scottish courts For his self interest and self reputation its not really a good start for a political career !
    Strong leaders give positive policies and dont dwell on badly( albeit falsely) construed allegations!
    He is allowed however by Scottish law to still voice his concerns and
    we welcome them
    the SNP haven’t lived up to my main. Criticism in that they still havnt started an independent currency/ banking system that we can pay wages into /invest into etc , something that we can call our own and start to divert our money from Westminster! !
    Money is important in any walk of life ! Wether your running a bussiness, driving an economy or just buying dope we need to keep it in Scotland!!!


  80. mike cassidy says:

    Time to cheer up then.

    I thought this was a good reply to a Cummings supporter complaining about the media.

  81. Cuilean says:

    Scots law judges are a law unto themselves. They can refuse to attend Holyrood and explain why they refuse to have a Register of Interests.

    During the 2014 Referendum campaign, the legal establishment, including the Law Society, was very mealy mou’d regarding Independence. They have all the power they want as things stand. Independence would rock that boat.

    Just read Peter Cherbi’s blog on the Scottish legal system’s shortcomings.

  82. Allium says:

    Not surprised by the outcome, but I don’t blame you for taking the action you did. I suspect you felt you had to leave no stone unturned in order to sleep at night.

    This is just one facet of a wretched time for politics and media in general.

    Change can’t come soon enough.

  83. Doug Buchannan says:

    Entirely predicable and self inflicted, yet somehow sad.

    If this blog had stuck to it’s key focus of supporting independence by presenting Scottish and uk articles on politics and the press rather fruitless wild geese chases in the courts, we’d all be the better for it. A current example of the direction of travel are the previous article(s) on obtaining information from the courts.

    A couple of years ago this site used to be a staggeringly good site, exposing the duplicity of the uk and Scottish press and uk political parties. It used to be a site you could come to and learn something that you could draw others not interested in politics, attention to. It was troll free with informed debate.

    Wings has long since lost it’s focus on Scottish independence. What has the site become, an embarrassment, frequented by easily led loonies, unionist trolls, people with an unnerving interest in gender politics and a rapidly diminishing number of decent folk with loyalty beyond logical sense.

    What’s the future for Wings? None, it serves no purpose, it has lost its reason to be and replaced it with irrelevant topics and dubious causes that interest few people who genuinely crave Scottish independence, i.e. it’s fall in readership is faster than that of the MSM.

    An alternative party? Would you vote for anyone on here, truly? Time to put wings to bed!

  84. Bob Mack says:

    @Mark Robertson

    Being found guilty of homophobia is also not a good start to a political career,don’t you think?

  85. Bob Mack says:

    @Doug Buchanan,

    Thanks for the insight Doug. Why are you still here then?

    The benefit of your opinion is like having root canal treatment without novocaine

  86. Fireproofjim says:

    Very unjust. Especially the 50% uplift on costs, which I consider to be the worst of it as that was done simply to prove they can do it, not because your case had no merit,.
    They treat you with contempt because you have no right to question the establishment, of which the dopey Kezia Dugdale seems to be a cherished part, for some reason.

  87. Bob Mack says:

    Here they come. The wildlife emerge to tell us all to leave Wings. Why would that be?

    They know Indy blogs are few and far between but shut it anyway. Get lost. Begone foul spirits back to your barracks.

  88. Dogbiscuit says:

    BBC Scotland that bastion of Westminster propaganda purveyors of shit to mediocre music. BB Scotland’s output seems designed to take the edge of the intellect.There is no fair accurate reporting of any aspect of Scottish life and the music in radio Scotland is highly restricted to bland uninspiring vacuity. DJs bang on like anyone wants to hear a pair of twat weegies uttering nothings to each other on a Friday night. Everything about this country is screwed down and contained.

  89. Mark Robertson says:

    Stu wasn’t found GUILTY of homophobia ! Read HIS own words !
    Reading this blog is getting as pathetic and divisive as listening to Rangers and celtic fans debating our Scottish future!
    Wake up everyone! Stop Bickering and lets see some action YES YOU STU AND NICOLA !

  90. Doug Buchannan says:

    @ Bob Mack

    I think you need insight Bob!

    It would prove a revelation of you could mount some kind if constructive criticism or counter argument to my post.

    I suspect you can’t and you know it to be true!

    But hey, if you are happy at the margins playing patsy to someone’s ego, stay there!

  91. Kelly says:

    Much love to you stu.
    What a horrible all round ridiculous situation. It shouldnt be a surprise, yes, but that doesnt make it any less frustrating 🙁

    I mean, we had a senior government advisor the other day saying it was reasonable to check your impaired vision by testing it driving down the motorway.

    We live in truly insane times.

  92. Bob Mack says:

    @Doug Buchanan,

    I see your playing games. Let’s be honest about this. You don’t want constructive criticism. It would make no difference to you at all. You want people to leave Wings. That’s it.That’s your goal.

    I will pay and pay again to keep it going because despite your best efforts people know what Stu does.

    You couldn’t construct a two piece Lego feature so stop wasting everybody’s time.

  93. David Cameron says:

    I think even those who are not fond of you, will find this to be very unjust, but I feel that you will merely find more disappointment if you try for an appeal. That, however, is a matter for you alone to decide.

    I recall the magic of Wings Over Scotland in 2014 and the Little Blue Book. I wonder if that popularity upsets the elite (toons mainly) and they took their revenge.

    I would love to see you back to your former glory and hope you will take time to heal your mind, body and soul. You should again rise to be one of the shining stars of the surely coming soon, Indy battle !

    Best from me,


  94. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    I suspect Kevin Philpott of the Criminal Justice Division will be going through this article and all BTL comments with a fine toothed comb looking for ‘crimethink‘ to report!

    I assume he is the same Kevin Philpott who appears in the COE.INT (Council of Europe) documents online under the “United Kingdom – National Procedures for Extradition Updated 19/09/2018” as the contact for “ Requests for extradition to / from non-EU countries for Scottish Ministers at St Andrews House” which would suggest UK Civil Service as opposed to Scottish?

    See you all in the Gulag folks!


  95. Dogbiscuit says:

    Mark Robertson why not? Why shouldn’t Stuart Campbell go into politics?The SNP are not setting any heather alight when it comes to Independence and you know it .A second Independence Party would be considered a natural ally by SNP surely? We have sat back in despair while the dilettante Sturgeon has preened pranced around securing her own future career. I have to hand it to Jackson Carlaw for calling Nicola Sturgeon out on that some time ago in Holyrood. Hollyrood if you’re a gadge.

  96. SilverDarling says:

    It is predictable the people who always emerge to say that when WoS was saying things they agreed with it was better. WoS was becoming increasingly stifled with SNP supporters cheerleading bad legislation and strategic decisions. It had to be called out.

    Calling out the press is something within the repertoire of every Independence supporter and WoS is to be thanked for that in a time when no one else had the balls. However what some people here don’t like is when WoS could not ignore the blatant mismanagement of strategy of the SNP for another Indy Ref.

    As for ‘people with an unnerving interest in gender politics’ you reveal yourself, Doug Buchanan, as another apologist for poor legislation. There are plenty of sites that repeat ad nauseum the comfortable stuff that you want to hear and never challenge anything. As for Independence when did Nicola Sturgeon last say anything that would indicate she was serious about Independence in her political lifetime?

  97. Dan Yell says:

    @Bob Mack, in spite of my deep, seething contempt for Rev Stu, I don’t actually want him to stop writing the blog. What I want is for him to stop displacing his petty grievances and hobby horses onto independence issues. I make no bones about despising him as a personality, but if I was so led around by a hate-boner for him then why would I
    a) have actively urged him not to waste resources on the appeal? I would have bet my life on his losing the appeal, if my contempt for him outpaced my belief in the Indy movement, and recognition of Stu’s ability as an advocate for it, I wouldn’t have bothered saying anything, if not feigned encouragement at his pursuit of litigious defeat
    b) have reacted with frothing rage to the judgement I thought was equal parts predictable and avoidable? If I was only interested in pissing in Stu’s internet sandbox, my instinct would have been to gloat, surely?

    You needn’t worry about me shitposting under future articles though. As with most serious supporters of independence, there’s nothing for me here.

  98. Bob Mack says:

    @Mark Robertson,

    Sequence Mark ,sequence.

    Stu denounced as homophobe in press article

    Stu defends in court but judges find in favour of Dugdale

    Papers announce Dugdale exonerated

    This far general public think Stu lost as they have not seen full verdict.

    Stu appeals and loses

    Media reports as before.Even today no mention of Stu being described as non homophobic.

    It had to be done.

    Now ,to finish, let’s debate our Scottish future. You must know a hell of a lot more than me because all I see is an SNP party stuck in the mud, unable to move forward or back.

    What do you know that I don’t as yet understand?

  99. A C Bruce says:

    Sorry to hear this. I thought the Sheriff’s decision was perverse and think the Appeal Judges’ decision is very unfair to you.

    A few things:

    Thankfully, you can’t be labelled as a homophobe which is what you must be most relieved about. Going through the rest of your life being unfairly labelled as something you are not would have been very difficult to bear.

    You really are very, very good at your job and I’m afraid you have been made to suffer a fair bit because of that. Only you can decide if it has been worth it.

    I too would have pursued this as far as I could because obvious injustice has to be challenged.

    The expenses of the case – the money angle – doesn’t bother me at all. The main thing is you were defamed and you are not a homophobe. Take heart from that.

    I have no regrets at donating to your fundraisers when I can and will do so again should you decide to continue.

    I’m sorry to hear this, and the false arrest, has affected your health and hope, in time, you can put this case behind you. I also hope you have your family and good friends around you at the moment.

    P.S. To Danyell. What a bitter, twisted little person you are. As someone above said so well F*ck off and then F*ck off some more.

  100. Karmanaut says:

    @Doug: “If this blog had stuck to it’s key focus of supporting independence by” etc.

    This case was about whether a high profile politician and sympathtic press have the right to try to destroy the reputation of a journalist (and thereby to silence his message) using lies.

    The result shows that in Scotland they do have that right. But it won’t be reciprocal. So, Doug, if you support independence and argue for it, then your opponents can brand you as a criminal or a bigot. Maybe you’ll lose your job. Maybe all of Twitter can amplify the lies, destroy your reputation. They no longer have to refute your arguments. It’s easier just to smear you instead.

    This verdict is disgusting. I guarantee you that Unionist press (i.e. most of it) won’t mention that Stu was found to have been defamed. So the smear will stick.

    Between this and the COPFS…

  101. ahundredthidiot says:

    Dan Yell @14:33

    ‘…there’s nothing for me here.’

    thank the lord – please kindly fuck the fuck off and take your two shill bottom feeders with you.

  102. CyberMidgie says:

    I’m very sorry to read this. It is a disgrace that someone can do something like this to you and not only get away with it, but effectively see you paying for the privilege of proving her wrong.

  103. Breeks says:

    Doug Buchannan says:
    27 May, 2020 at 2:09 pm
    Entirely predicable and self inflicted, yet somehow sad.

    If this blog had stuck to it’s key focus of supporting independence by presenting Scottish and uk articles on politics and the press rather fruitless wild geese chases in the courts, we’d all be the better for it…

    If the SNP had stuck to it’s focus, and even so much as tripped over a principle back in 2016, Scotland would have secured a Constitutional Backstop to prevent Brexit in 2016, and thereby have left the Union of the UK untenable. Scotland would, right now, be an independent nation inside the EU.

    “ What’s the future for Wings the SNP? None, it serves no purpose, it has lost its reason to be….”

    I couldn’t care less about the SNP. The have betrayed Scotland, Scotland’s Constitution, Scottish Democracy, and the popular sovereignty of the people, and they’ve turned their venom on Alex Salmond, who has more integrity in his little finger than the whole wokist cabal which currently surrounds Sturgeon. Alex Salmond almost did the impossible, and brought Scotland to within a whisker of Independence. Sturgeon inherited everything she could possibly have hoped for, and has squandered the lot, and is now on course to divide and wreck the entire SNP, and it’s gullible fuds like you Doug Buchannan, with your head in the sand, who will give her the ballast she needs to destabilise and capsize the ship.

    If it was down to me, I’d have Sturgeon’s SNP “government” impeached for their cowardly and constitutionally illiterate abandonment of Scottish sovereignty and capitulation to the colonial subjugation of Brexit. I’d have them thrown out of office, and thereafter, “..we should exert ourselves at once to drive them out as our enemy and a subverter of their own rights and ours, and make some other Parliament who was well able to defend us, and our sovereign constitution, our formal Scottish Government.

    All we have come to expect from the SNP fanboys is “meh… but who else ye gonna vote for?”

    It’s not a who, it’s a what. Impeachment. I reckon that’s what I’m gonna vote for. Impeachment..

  104. Dorothy Devine says:

    Rev sorry to read all that but not surprised.

    It is always surprising to find folk coming on a site decrying and bewailing how it is past its sell-by date , should give up , nobody reads it etc. etc.- though nice of them to drop in eh?

  105. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “You needn’t worry about me shitposting under future articles though. As with most serious supporters of independence, there’s nothing for me here.”

    In that case you can fuck off.

  106. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I think even those who are not fond of you, will find this to be very unjust, but I feel that you will merely find more disappointment if you try for an appeal. That, however, is a matter for you alone to decide.”

    This WAS the appeal. There are no more avenues of appeal that I know of.

  107. Allium says:

    @SilverDarling WoS was becoming increasingly stifled with SNP supporters cheerleading bad legislation and strategic decisions. It had to be called out

    Thank you for saying this. I’m a relatively new commenter but a very long term reader, and I think your point, viewed within the wider movement as a whole and not just WoS, explains greatly why we find ourselves in this hopeless, stagnated, indy-free SNP. Had more supporters seen themselves as critical friends, rather than devotees, the comfortable cabal at the top would not have been able to entrench themselves so seamlessly, ruthlessly strangling debate and/or dissent.

    I applaud Campbell for shining a light on the gender madness. The SNP has been captured by entryists. Anyone who doesn’t see this by now needs a drive to Barnard Castle.

  108. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “But did the appeal decision include any explanation of how a false statement could be described as “fair comment?””

    If you read the judgement, it points out that “fair comment” is a misnomer, and should properly be labelled “honest comment”.

  109. SilverDarling says:


    You put it better than I could, Cheers!

  110. Capella says:

    I still struggle to understand how defamation can be described as fair comment. However, if it really means “honest” comment then that makes it worse. How can Kezia Dugdale, an openly gay politician with a law degree, not understand the meaning of the word “homophobic”? It isn’t plausible that she doesn’t understand it. In other words, she lied. How can a liar and defamer walk away without costs?

    I have no regrets about funding your case. It has at least demonstrated the mendacity of the legal system in Scotland. The Alex Salmond trial and the forthcoming Craig Murray case are further examples. The legal system will be priority for reform as soon a independence is achieved.

  111. Andrew F says:

    Unsurprisingly the BBC presents this as Rev losing because Dugdull was right and he was wrong:


    “In the Daily Record, Ms Dugdale wrote that Mr Campbell had sent “homophobic tweets”.

    She accused him of spouting “hatred and homophobia” towards others.

    In the judgement from the Court of Session, Lord Carloway wrote: “The court agrees with the sheriff’s conclusion that this was indeed fair comment.

    “The pursuer’s tweet was a derogatory remark containing a gratuitous reference to Oliver Mundell’s father’s homosexuality.

    “The defender’s comments may have been expressed in strong, if not inflammatory, language.

    “The fact that they are in “vituperative or contumelious language” does not avoid the defence.”


    Luckily everyone knows the BBC is shit and “Labour” is even more shit, and not only that but genuine movements and groups are burning all of these frauds to the ground. Keep fighting!

  112. handclapping says:

    It is a pity that the position of the commenter was not examined. They took Stu to pieces but Kez position in society was not examined. Failure to do so over the years has ended up in the position in which politicians can lie to us with impunity and because it is said by a politician it automatically becomes “fair comment”.
    A politician outside Parliament or speaking as a Minister should be treated as any other loon and not be granted special privilege or breathless worship and adulation by journalists.

  113. schrodingers cat says:

    “Wings can afford it. It’s not like there’s any prospect of the SNP bringing us another indyref that we’d have needed the cash for anyway”

    im not so sure stu. the polls have risen above 50% and are still rising.

    the holyrood election in may 2021 will be a plebicite on indy by default, no question, we will need a new wbb on jan 1st

  114. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Doug Buchannan says:

    “…and a rapidly diminishing number of decent folk with loyalty beyond logical sense.”

    I can see why an SNP MP or MSP who has forsaken the cause of
    Independence in favour of perpetual Devolution, to preserve his comfy new status, “money for nothing” income and super-pension, might find simpletons to be the ideal party members.

    But what honest man or woman would count blind loyalty bordering on stupidity as a desirable character trait?

  115. Capella says:

    Another fundraiser would be a good idea. Replenish the fund for the struggle ahead. The Boris Johnston clown cabinet may not even last beyond the end of the year.

  116. Joe says:

    I have the very unsettling, and growing, realisation that we are looking at an all-out but slow moving coup of our institutions as a country. Not just Scotland but the UK.

    Someone mentioned to me that the National Crime Agency are now recruiting.

    I’d heard of them before. But now im looking at it with a more updated understanding. Especially in light of the use of the British Army in the affairs of private citizens.

    The question arises – why can’t this simply be the police? Are these people held to the same standards as police? Is it a coincidence that they are recruiting now with a huge spike in unemployment?

    Could the slow but steady replacement of national, democratic Common Law based institutions be the means in which ‘societal change’ could take place?

    I see a bad moon rising.

    The people who like to think, dig and ask questions should be doing so. This is no time for mindless conformity.

    Also – start thinking about masking your online presence if you intend to be spreading counter narratives to the official ones we are having rammed down our necks. VPN’s, Tor Browser (comes with Brave browser) and keep your online activist identity different and totally separate from your work/banking/bill paying one. In fact have several. Yes, i know, online only goes so far but its enough for raising awareness and education which is critical – people can’t do anything if they don’t know whats happening.

    When they really push for cash-free you will be at their mercy if you have not separated your online ‘hate speech’ and ‘cyber crime’ from your working identity.

    You know how a professional pickpocket gets your stuff? Distraction. While you are listening to the voice and are aware of one hand the other hand you do not see is doing you over.

    That’s whats happening right now. Hint: the media isn’t working to inform you. Scottish independence supporters should know that by now.

  117. Dogbiscuit says:

    The change of tone on here reflects the the politics we are living through. There is no time left over for coffee morning meetings.

  118. MorvenM says:

    Really sorry to hear this. But I share George Orwell’s view that, if you believe in something, it’s better to fight and lose than not to fight at all.

  119. Dogbiscuit says:

    Doug Buchanan it is clear you deflect NIcola Sturgeons failings into the rest of the Indy movement.You’re not getting away with that you silly bugger. Away and tell Domina Sturgeon to get her finger out of sneaky Petes arse and put forward plans for Independence.What is Sturgeons plan? By the way my language is a reflection of my disgust at piss poor political leadership on the most important issues of our time. First Minister commands no respect.

  120. innocent says:

    With a line drawn under that for good, nows the time to shut up shop.

    Scotland’s ready to stand up on its own two feet, and we don’t need someone who chooses NOT to live in Scotland telling us what to do.

    So long, and thanks for all the fish.

  121. Colin Alexander says:

    Stu Campbell

    I hope you continue to take the positives from this and can move on.

    As the Wings fund is unlikely to be used for any indyref2, why don’t you put it to good use, such as a modern legal challenge to the convention of UK parliamentary sovereignty with regard to dissolving the Union. e.g. Can only UK parliament legally dissolve the Union / Does Scotland’s people require UK Parliament consent for independence ?

    I’m sure you already know Craig Murray’s opinion on this matter. It’s time that was also put before a Scottish court, for a court /s judgment on this matter.

  122. callmedave says:

    MorvenM says:

    Really sorry to hear this. But I share George Orwell’s view that, if you believe in something, it’s better to fight and lose than not to fight at all.

    Pretty close to how I feel too.

    ‘Screw your courage to the sticking place’ Stuart.

    You’ve been through the mill this last wee while, we all wish you well whatever you decide. Get pissed first and have a think then just do it!

  123. Dogbiscuit says:

    innocent. Named after the murderous Pope who started a Crusade. Why do you support the great pretender? Why do you want this site closed? Do you feel offended by democratic debate? And more importantly have you had any muesli today?

  124. Dogbiscuit says:

    Breeks With you on that.

  125. carjamtic says:

    We hate you, we fukcin hate you…….but,but,but, we canny get the matches to light.

    Memo to Rev :

    Time to get the (metaphorical) flamethrower back out the shed, despite all the suffering, all the deaths, all the hearts that have been broken, these bastards still think they’re right.

    They’re wrong, you’re right, thanks for taking a sore one for the team,but your bruises will heal and “Scotland is still an unwon cause”.


    It’s time.

  126. F J Lynch says:

    She lost. You won yet you get stiffed for the cash she’s trousering. Doesn’t reflect well on the Scottish Justice system at all. Why? Because. The Establishment. Labour. The Daily Record. The Scottish Media.
    You were vindicated, but got hammered anyway. I do hope that’s not a lesson for you. In future don’t trust the system. It seems to be rigged, but certainly not in the people’s favour.

  127. Armitage Shanks says:

    Joe @ 3:27 pm
    I have the very unsettling, and growing, realisation that we are looking at an all-out but slow moving coup of our institutions as a country. Not just Scotland but the UK.

    Joe I would say its now all major institutions, it took decades while we slept on. And I dont know what the answer is each new generation now accepts it as the norm.

  128. Colin Alexander says:

    “vituperative”, “contumelious”….

    Has he been speaking to George Galloway recently?

    Thank goodness for an online dictionary.

  129. shug says:

    Stu ignore the trolls.
    The fact they are on here is a reflection of how much they see you as an independence asset. If you did not matter they would ignore you.
    Indy Ref 2 will be along soon. Covid is a delay – no doubt, but the Brexit car crash for farmers and fishermen is coming and the people will see the sense in independence.
    The gender stuff will go the way of the named person it is a clear unionist trap. The Flakies around Nicola are known and will wither on their perches.
    Let the unionists be the hate filled ones they are. Do not hate them back, do not shout, do not swear do not get upset.
    They defend the indefensible and they know it. The are united only in hate and bile. Let them soak in it

  130. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “This WAS the appeal. There are no more avenues of appeal that I know of.“ you say @Rev. Stuart Campbell at 2:55 pm

    Certain decisions can be appealed to the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, either with the permission of the Inner House of the Court of Session or, if the Inner House has refused permission, with the permission of the UK Supreme Court.

    Don’t know if this is an option (or if you’d bother even if it was).

  131. CameronB Brodie says:

    Appointing Dugdale as head of the John Smith Centre, was an clear indication of the political priorities of the Scottish ‘left’, which is to protect British nationalism, first, last, and always. Hell mend them.

    Full text.

    Law after Modernity

  132. callmedave says:

    BBC numbers are in with the usual blanks for darn Sarf

    N. Ireland…….today…..02………Total……516…BBC
    England……….today…*183……… figs…*SUN

  133. Julie Cabrelli says:

    Missing you

  134. twathater says:

    TBH Stuart if it was me would just say fuck it Scotland and Scots deserve all that is coming to them , if they can’t even be bothered to take their heads out of their arse and see the SNP are actively working against independence then they are so brainwashed they are beyond saving

    You have done so much to support and further the cause of independence and were lauded for it by these same detractors and demeaners , yet when you are exposing the duplicitous cancer within the SNP and their malevolence towards a former FM who ALMOST won our independence you are then ostracised and denigrated for revealing the TRUTH

    UNFORTUNATELY the sycophancy is too deeply imbedded to see even a slither of light , they are eager and willing to throw their relatives and friends under the bus as long as the wokist cabal mentions something to do with independence occasionally

    I went on to WGD last night to look at the comments on his latest post and quite honestly it saddened me to see once prolific commenters on this site reduced to referencing this site in couched terms , whilst carrying on with their open denigration and smears of a man who has done more for the independence cause than the whole of the SNP

    I am 69 years young and have accepted the realisation that independence for my country will not come through ANYTHING that NS or the SNP will do , and as long as the sycophants and apologists revere and revell in anything she does we don’t deserve it

    Many on here just like me want an independent country where justice , fairness and dignity is the norm but it appears that too many people are content to plod along willingly as long as our dear leader is in charge of our wretchedness


  135. Capella says:

    Time to put this sorry episode behind us? Time to move on? I think the debate needs a fresh start.

    I would recommend Alf Baird’s new book “Doun Hauden” which analyses the nine determinants of Scottish independence, or lack of. The topics keep surfacing here btl such as culture, language, demographics, colonisation, nationalism, institutions, constitution, ethnicity and self determination.

    His excellent skewering of Scottish procurement of ferries at the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee in January was a joy to behold. It’s his academic speciality and shows up the ignorance or corruption at the heart of these processes.

  136. susan says:

    This blog does sterling work and os is needed now more than ever. Hence the drivel from some quarters about it being useless.

  137. susan says:

    Well said @ twathater.

  138. stuart mctavish says:

    @Mark Robertson @1,53pm

    One key to a successful currency is full faith and trust in the dispute resolution system to mitigate loss when trade deals go south, or when promises get broken, so the perceived bias in a court of appeal willing to overlook the fact that the defamation in question was:

    a) made by the leader of what once was the most powerful political party in the land,
    b) got most of its publicity from being repeated (with prejudice) in what was once the highest court in the land, and
    c) was dismissed as trivial by what were once trusted cultivators of the court of public opinion

    could be as big a barrier to a new currency as any.

  139. SilverDarling says:


    Pretty sad stuff. Some are absolutely obsessed with WoS and will never get over being booted out or just not able to have the influence they feel they are due.

    Of course what they really want to say is that if they were allowed to comment here without being challenged on their sycophancy it would be just like the good old days…

  140. Clwyd Griffiths says:

    “While our case was clearly just” May be you’re right. But the point is if you hadn’t posted such an incredibly daft & offensive tweet in the first place about Mundell, or had deleted it with a “sorry, it was a joke that went wrong, apologises” this whole affair wouldn’t have risen.

  141. CameronB Brodie says:

    That “Doun Hauden” does looks very interesting. It would make thing a lot simpler for Scotland though, if our legal Establishment were to actually respect Treaty law , and not hold natural law in contempt.

    The Concept and the Rule of Law

  142. Dogbiscuit says:

    Twathater. Bob Mack made the very good point that homophobia is not a good look in a budding politician. There is also the matter of the mans personal integrity.

  143. Dogbiscuit says:

    Twathater sorry I misread your comment.

  144. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Criminal Justice Division
    I hope you’re still monitoring comments on WOS. 😉


  145. Bob W says:

    @cleyd Griffiths

    The joke was directed at Mundell junior, how was it offensive or are you saying it was directed at Mundell senior?
    Many jokes have been made in a similar vein, about arseholes who’s fathers might have saved the world their offspring’s presence.

  146. Beaker says:

    While I avoid getting into debates or arguments, I do enjoy reading the comments on this site.

    But I’ve seen a couple of comments above which, if you used in public, would either get you lifted by the police or, (at least where I live), find yourself being lifted off the floor after being decked. By all means disagree with the article, but try and use words of more than one or two syllables.

    O/T – I’m confused now, is it stay at home, stay alert, stay at home while being alert, go outside but be alert to social distancing, or do what the fuck you want?

  147. Dogbiscuit says:

    One of the Queens little Welsh subjects complaining about spilt milk?

  148. twathater says:

    Susan and Silver darling thanks for that , Yes Silver Darling I remember well when you were rounded on as you ITO went off message , a similar thing happened with Daisy Walker and was very unsavoury , but like MOST guid Scots wimmen they’ll no take shite withoot fighting back I (ahem ) know from experience with my good lady

  149. Neil Mackenzie says:

    “Of no materiality” is just another way of saying “It doesn’t matter”, right? … and in this case it refers to the fact that defamation occurred. That’s taking the piss.

  150. twathater says:

    Breeks AS USUAL a very biting comment BUT ABSOLUTELY on point something that the apologists will avoid , avoid , avoid in case they have to face the TRUTH

  151. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Criminal Justice Division
    You are aware you do not own the law? So what about some universally applied common law protection for Scotland’s civil society (see Brexit)?

    In Defence of the Common Law Constitution:
    Unwritten Rights as Fundamental Law

  152. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Criminal Justice Division
    I’m sorry if I’m labouring the point, but you lot appear to have a legal perspective that is undermined by cultural parochialism. So I’m only trying to be supportive of your efforts. 😉


  153. MWS says:

    Crap verdict but can’t say I’m surprised. The law is an ass indeed. I have less faith in Scotland’s justice system (and its politicians) every day. Still, if nothing else it let a lot more people see exactly what kind of person Dugdale is. And who in the SNP flocked to her cause. It was very enlightening for that if nothing else. I wouldn’t be too disheartened Stu. The house of cards is going to come crashing down on top of the lot of them before very much longer. And when it does, I shall laugh.

  154. winifred mccartney says:

    Dugdale was given her present job as a reward just like Mone and many other Lords who stood up for King and Country. Corrupt does not begin to describe it.

  155. crisiscult says:

    If you’re anything about me, a feeling of anger is what keeps me going 🙂 Sometimes I even contribute to your Wings fund just so I can see a few folk on twitter getting upset about it (25 or 50 quid to Wings is surely better value for money than the BBC licence that I don’t pay, or a subscription to a British newspaper).

  156. robbo says:

    Breeks says:
    27 May, 2020 at 2:49 pm

    You talk a lot about the constitution Breeks and we should do this,do that.

    What’s the plan then, and who’s gonna follow it through?

    Probably 80-90 % of of indy supporters don’t understand it and couldn’t care less.They only want it done by referendum ,because otherwise the yoons wouldn’t buy it or accept it.

    What happens when the shit hits the fan,if we were to win indy through courts say?

    Twater- apologist no, realist yes.

  157. Clwyd Griffiths says:

    @Dogbiscuit Certainly not a royalist or a yoon, I back indy bcos I want to see a fairer, better society for Scotland and Wales. I also miss Wings on twitter which I followed, but his original tweet was unwise to say the least, and his recent obsession with trans & gender politics which is a minority side issue is pretty tiresome. But believe it or not I’m a fan of Stu.

  158. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Criminal Justice Division
    I will continue to labour the point until you lot support the concept of Scots enjoying the benefits of democracy, and the principle of equality in law. Simples.

    Rule of Law and
    Constitution Building
    The Role of Regional Organizations

  159. CameronB Brodie says:

    Until Scotland is able to connect with the rule-of-law, we will not be able to enjoy the benefits of democracy. It is as simple as that, yet Scotland is about to be dragged out of the EU. So Scots better look forward to Scotland’s moral identity being determined by English Torydum, and you’d better forget about those economic, social, and cultural rights of yours. There is no alternative from here on, apparently.

    The Legal Doctrines of the Rule of Law and the Legal State (Rechtsstaat)

  160. HandandShrimp says:

    Not entirely surprised but I did think the appeal court would have a more balanced take on the costs element.

    I’ve always taken the view that one should approach the courts cautious!y. The lottery has better odds.

  161. Lulu Bells says:

    Anxiety is a dreadful and debilitating thing and unless you have experienced it, really experienced it, you can have no idea how hard it is to keep functioning normally while having these terrible attacks of anxiety. Well done you!

  162. Dogbiscuit says:

    Clwyd Griffiths. My dig was unjustified.I disagree that the trans issue is a side issue.I think it’s chicken feed politics for fast trackers but it is so prominent in Nicola Sturgeons political thinking that it sidelines Independence. It’s interesting that the Tories don’t have a similar problem with Trannies.After all given the proclivities and peccadilloes of the common run of the Tory party you would have thought it a natural home for the pressure group that seems to have hijacked the Left.

  163. G H Graham says:

    The beautiful thing about being part of an apparatus of state, is that you get the move the goalposts when the intelligence, integrity & determination of the common person rises beyond expectation.

    The law becomes an abstract, a useful tool that can be arbitrarily applied. We are told it is absolute but this is itself a lie.

    Those eager slaves of the state (most obvious in this instance are Unionist leaning politicians and the main stream media), willfully engage with, help propagate & disseminate its propaganda in order to alter reality. They help establish the narrative that will always favour the state over you, the individual unless of course that individual is deemed a useful, even if temporary, agent of the state.

    Justice therefore is not commonly served. Establishment ranks are maintained too close to permit truth from squeezing in & exposing the hypocrisy, corruption & nepotism.

    That Scotland is somehow immune from this condition is laughable. Beyond the shortbread marketing hype, it is fundamentally no different from any other typical state; rotten to the core, run by careerists, policed by people determined to hold onto a monopoly of direct & indirect violence.

    Would independence achieve any positive difference? After reading about Dugdale’s nauseating account, I very much doubt it.

    The same authoritarians, bureaucrats, devious, self serving politicians & bottom feeding media would still agitate their way to the top. It’s what cunts generally do.

    How inevitable & sad is that?

  164. susan says:

    Clwyd, I don’t think trans issues are a side issue. GRA reform and the hate crime bill would have far-reaching negative effects on at least 50% of the population. These moves are not only unscientific, they are undemocratic and deeply unpopular amongst the general public.

  165. Clwyd Griffiths says:

    Bob, I understand the “joke” but it was stupid thing to say in this context. Talk about giving the opponents your ammo.
    Dogbiscuit & Susan, I don’t know enough about GRA reform and the bill to voice an opinion, but let us all not lose sight of what we wall want – indy within EU.

  166. schrodingers cat says:


    I am 69 years young and have accepted the realisation that independence for my country will not come through ANYTHING that NS or the SNP will do


    its the people of scotland who decide, ns and the snp’s job is to convince the people and in the last few weeks, (as far as the polls go) they have convinced a majority of the people that independence is the solution.

    1st july, eu deal breaker day
    31st dec, we leave the eu with no deal

    whether we have indyref2 or use the may 2021 he isnt that important. a plebicite is all that is required with +50%
    the unionists can veto/foil any attempt at indyref2, but the holyrood election will happen.

    i wouldnt have suggested this for 2019 ge, polls were at 42% and in the end we got 45%. that isnt enough support for a cause to die on a hill for.

    but +50% is

    we are almost home and dry, why so glum?

  167. Daisy Walker says:

    So that is twice now the court has confirmed, in writing, that you were defamed and that you are not a homophobe.

    In the long term I suspect those written judgements are going to be worth more than the money.

    A Judge is in full view, their scope to skewer things is limited. In some ways this is a very substantial win for you, as it draws a line in the sand for future KD’s not to defame you in the same way.

    I am very grateful for all the work you do, the standard of your work and the bravery you have displayed in doing so. It is not going un-noticed, or unappreciated.

    O/T I could not view Twitter on my laptop when your account was in action, it came up with all the posts on top of one another, or it kept cutting out every few seconds and then re-booting, so you couldn’t read it.

    Funnily enough, its working now.

    Anyway, kind words of appreciation are one thing… a fund raiser is a much more demonstrable method of showing same.

    And if it was tied to a campaign to make the case for Indy – something which should not be confined to an Indy Ref timetable – particularly with a No Deal Brexit coming our way fast. Would a Billboard campaign be in order – not so much Lead by Donkeys, as Freed by Wings…

    Take good care of yourself.

  168. Colin Alexander says:


    Scotland’s sovereignty is a common sovereignty of the people. This was recognised even back in 1320 and is articulated in the Declaration of Arbroath. Similarly, the Covenanters and Scottish parliament who sacked King James continued this exercise of common sovereignty by limiting the power of the Crown.

    Thus, even though in the parliament and organs of the independent Scottish state were incorporated into a GB state and the monarchies were united, the situation is:

    Scotland’s sovereignty continues, for the people of Scotland are sovereign.

    Whether we are in a UK of GB and N.I. or were in a European Union, Scotland’s sovereignty continues by the common sovereignty of the people.

    This remains unchanged by declarations of supremacy of UK Parliament or supremacy of EU Law.

    At any point Scotland’s people can exercise sovereignty and overrule UK Parliament or the EU.

    Scotland’s people can also exercise sovereignty to overrule UK Parliament’s Holyrood colonial parliament.

    There is nothing sovereign about Holyrood. It is a puppet govt of Westminster as their imitation of the shambolic handling of the Coronavirus emergency turned it into a disaster.

  169. John Boyes says:

    Not so much a Dugdale Heir – mair an Airdale Dug – or am I being unfair to our canine friends?

  170. CameronB Brodie says:

    Our political outlook and our sexuality are connected, as both are products of our bio-neurology. I get where you’re coming from but I’m not sure our predilections are as politically partisan as you suggest. Anyhoo, here a peek at what Scotland’s legal Establishment appear happy to determine Scotland’s future. Hell mend them.

    The association of cognitive ability with right-wing ideological attitudes and prejudice: A meta-analytic review

  171. Always thought/hoped that the appeal would show that there are some in the Scottish Judiciary that are not corrupted by the establishment,

    Lords Carloway, Brodie and Menzies failed in that hope,

    they did what they were told to do like any common lackey does when master calls,

    we now know the Scottish Judiciary stinks of corruption from top to bottom.

  172. robertknight says:

    Rev Stu…

    Having little if any faith in our supposed system of justice, and knowing that the Establishment takes care of their own in ways that would make even a Freemason blush, I can’t say that I’m at all surprised that Dippity Dug’s arse was saved a skelping by the judiciary.

    But hey, good on ya! The world can see in print what we knew all along – she’s as thick as mince and devoid of decency.

  173. CameronB Brodie says:

    Clwyd Griffiths
    What you are essentially saying is that you lack an understanding of the policy implication of the GRA reforms and the Hate Crime bill, but you are content to let them proceed to legislation regardless. I see no concern for the rule-of-law in you perspective, only a desire for independence. I can understand this perspective, though not support it. Scotland will never achieve constitutional justice if these two pieces of legislation are enacted.

    Human Rights and Rule of Law: What’s The Relationship

  174. James F. McIntosh says:

    Seems like the Scottish gov. Are following England’s lead in getting the police/judiciary and their own party like a closed shop under their control. To those that are losing hope of getting indie ref 2 the simple solution is to force them to sign up to a legal document which states they must hold a indie ref. within say 12 to 16 weeks after they hopefully win the forthcoming Scottish election or we withhold our vote for them, and not even a nuclear war must get in the way of that happening.

  175. Dogbiscuit says:

    Everyone.Check out Pokey La Farge on YouTube .You need those guys.

  176. N. Holmes says:

    The money used to fight this case has not been wasted as it has revealed, beyond any doubt, that Dugdale is an utterly vacuous self-serving careerist devoid of any principle, the Labour Party in Scotland is intellectually and morally bankrupt and the Scottish Establishment will always favour and protect the interests of the Establishment.

  177. schrodingers cat says:

    James F. McIntosh

    if we win with +50% of the vote in may 2021, why would we need another indyref?

  178. Benhope says:

    Thank you Stu for your incredible tenacity. If only there were more Scots willing to get off their knees.

    It would appear that The Honourable Gentlemen of Muirfield are now so confident of their positions that they can treat the prols and The Law with equal contempt.

    Hundreds of years of law can be discarded to follow a Unionist agenda. What a state we are now in!

  179. Millennium says:

    Boris looks shattered.

    This Prime Minister shit isn’t everything that it’s cracked up to be.

    Johnson, Gove and Cummings had big plans for england after Brexit, then some Chinese bastards started spreading a virus around the world.

    Their eyes were filled with Dollar signs.

    Now, it all lies in ruins

    Do we feel the slightest bit sympathetic?

    Do we fukc.

    The time to push for Indy is fast approaching, and we need the right leader in place to do that.


    Anybody But Sturgeon

    And something else I learned today was that the resident House Jock at number 10, Micheal Gove, is seemingly the only person Cummings will listen to.

    Well I never…

  180. Joe says:

    @Schrodingers cat

    I have my doubts about an indy ref but you’ll certainly be able to slip into your favorite frock and go and hassle some schoolgirls under the tolerant umbrella of legal protection provided by The Dear Leader and her comrades.

  181. Bob Mack says:

    @Schrodingers Cat,
    We need another indyref because the leader has stated this is the only way she will countenance Independence.

    The rest of us think perhaps somewhat differently but We are stuck fast without another party who think differently.

  182. robbo says:

    Anyone but N Sturgeon eh?

    Wonder who this new Mhysa or Kepa would be?

    Mind boggles

  183. defo says:

    And then there was also her early years, deep throating for Lord Foo.
    Nasty stuff, and she loved it.

    As bags of keek go, she’s top billing.

  184. Robert Louis says:

    Ach, so wrong that tha appeal failed. On the upside, Dugdale and her lying ways, are very old news. Nobody trusts her anymore. She is irrelevant.

    Meanwhile, after having seen some of England’s murderous Tory prime minister’s performance today, it is abundantly clear he is totally out of his depth.

    It strikes me, that Alexander Boris De Pfeffle Johnsons always fancied being prime minister, after his old Bullingdon boy chum did it. Now he has achieved it, he has lost all interest. He only wanted the glory and status, nothing else. He certainly had zero intention of actually doing a hard day’s work. He is a lazy fool, a lazy, lazy fat clown.

    Oh, England, please stop voting for useless barstewards like Johnson.

  185. Rm says:

    Wishart on earlier still on about cummings, don’t worry about him that’s old english news, it’s history, the Scots SNP MPs worry about how your going to push for dissolving the Union, Independence on our own, freedom what you were voted in for, go get it well at least try a bit.

  186. velofello says:

    Ach Rev., think of it in football terms. The referee makes an outrageous decision, TV replays confirm his error, but a Football Association tribunal cannot fail to back the referee, “for the sake of the game”.

  187. Col.Blimp IV says:

    After the last war a dozen or so German judges and prosecutors were tried at Nuremberg for abusing their positions by convicting citizens for spurious politically motivated “crimes”.

    Here’s hopping we do the same, shame that the sentences are unlikely to be as steep.

  188. Fionan says:

    Sorry to hear this latest travesty of justice, Stu, but with the blubber-faced Carloway and his cronies on the bench, no one can expect any justice – not unless they are also reddened-faced, partisan establishment elite.And of course it is galling that the dishonest, nasty, slimy little viper has got off with her vile defamation.I havent despised anyone quite so much since I used to read vile, cruel and very ignorant comments by a poster on the Scotsman btl who called itself ‘fifi’. (well of course also gove, johnson, hancock, cummmings…)

    The appeal is not wasted though, firstly with your non-homophobia clearly established twice in the courts and secondly, it highlights even more strongly the ever-twisting, tightening grip the establishment is gaining over us. It shows that we need to be alert, be prepared even better for the very worst they intend to throw at us if we dont get back in our cereal boxes.

    Please dont let it get you down – then they will have won. We dont need more of our important figures and fighters being taken down, especially right now when there appears to be a fork in the path of indy coming up which may well determine once and for all whether Scotland will ever regain independence. We all knew it would be tough, we all knew the fight would get dirtier and dirtier, and we all knew the leading figures in our fight would face quite horrific attacks of one kind or another – and now we see it happening. But it is also sorting the wheat from the chaff, the chaff being the unquestioning followers of very questionable ‘leaders’. The sheeples. So, very many of us are still behind you, grateful for your hard work in exposing and sinign a light into the dark corners where the wokeists and establishment shady figures hide their slime. Including the current snp heirarchy. Another crowdfunder would be good right now, and I for one am in! Cant give much as usual, but happy to give what I can.

  189. Camz says:

    “she blundered into embarrassing pratfall after embarrassing pratfall for every day of her disastrous leadership”

    The deputy to Jim Murphy? You seem surprised.

  190. Balaaargh says:

    Genuinely sorry to read this, Rev. You’ve had a fairly shitty year, tbh. Too much stifling of your voice going on. What ever you do, keep doing what you’re doing. If it wasn’t working, they wouldn’t try to silence you.

  191. Eckle Fechan says:

    Great and very pointed summation there at the end. Hopefully you can sleep easy after that difficult experience – an unusual and very revealing twist from your own honest comment.

    Kez though, if she *has* a conscience, will carry the truth of her lies with her forevermore. All the World’s a stage right enough, shame so many hack amateur political actors occupy it.

  192. Ruglonian says:

    It’s heartening to see that the comments on here are of a higher calibre than usual, and are for the most part directly to do with the post they are below the line of!

    So many people read the posts but no longer read btl because it is often filled with little other than trolls (everyone who continues to engage with them is directly responsible for them ‘bedding down’), or disrupters to the flow (usually cos they don’t want to see folk having the space to discuss the current state of the SNP!)

    This unmoderated space is a precious resource and doesn’t just belong to those who post here most frequently – our movement should always hold itself to the highest possible standards, and I wish that some would reflect on how they make this place look when they post their nonsense!!

    I’m no longer content to just keep an eye here and hope that the tone changes to once again become inviting and interesting – I’m sticking around to actively encourage it 🙂

  193. Millennium says:





  194. Millennium says:

    Robbo and famous15

    Definitely the same person and a pain in the prick.

  195. Millennium says:


    You childishly stalk your man and then post some irrelevant pish about that person.

    How about posting something that doesn’t involve somebody you dislike.

    As I say, you are a pain in the fuckin prick

  196. Millennium says:




  197. Millennium says:


    He dizznae like me coz a say bad things about his wee Nicky.

  198. Joe says:


    Excellent. I had similar sentiments when this was not much more than a SNP echo chamber hostile to original thought. Good stuff

  199. Liz g says:

    Ruglonian @ 12.17
    Well said….It’s about time we made it clear that up with this we will not put.
    Places where the freedom to discuss stuff unmoderated are few and far between and we who like it can no longer wait around for the Indy ref campaign to get going before we reclaim our space…..The Revs getting shut down everywhere else so this needs to be the go to place for the Yes movement to hear and explore his input!

  200. Willie says:

    “ By his manner and methods he made his court an instrumentality of terror and won the fear and hatred of the population. From the evidence of his closest associates as well as his victims, we find that Oswald Rothaug represented in Germany the personification of the secret Nazi intrigue and cruelty. He was and is a sadistic and evil man. Under any civilized judicial system he could have been impeached and removed from office or convicted of malfeasance in office on account of the scheming malevolence with which he administered injustice.”[1]

    The were comments made in the Judges Trial in Nuremberg after the second world war and relate to one Chief Prosecutor , Justice Minister Oswald Rothaug and judge in the Nazi regime who was given a life sentence later commuted to 20 years.

    Like the politically compromised prosecutors and judges here in Scotland these Nazi judges thought of themselves untouchable. But they weren’t.

  201. Liz g says:

    Ruglonian, that Joe @12.35 is one of the buggers that needs ignoring,nothing but a repetitive pest so he is!

  202. Liz g says:

    Willie @ 12.42
    This clearly political result just makes the case for taking a good look at how Judges get to become Judges in Scotland,and a warning that we shouldn’t embed the current selection process into our Constitution….

  203. Joe says:

    @Liz G

    I get called a troll and a trouble maker alll the time. Sometimes I am uneccessarily offensive, but mostly the biggest offence I commit here is by knowing my shit on what I speak and being happy to disagree.

  204. Ruglonian says:

    Thanks Liz 🙂

    His comment gave him away as a pest anyway – this place has *never* been an “SNP echo chamber”, or “hostile to original thought” – sounds precisely what some would prefer to dismiss it as.

  205. Joe says:


    Yes. It was. Not only that people who didnt see eye to eye with the majority were treated like shit. Until WOS spoke the truth and the partisans all took their ball home with them, changing the composition of your precious space. But do go on pretending to ignore me

  206. Joe says:

    You see, the problem is this. Any SNP supporter who can now successfully defend the SNP from a reasonably informed and reasonably intelligent person should probably become a barrister as the SNP are beyond a shitshow – they are scary. Not many barrister grade thinkers currently happy with the SNP just now, hence the need fir them to have a safe space to repeat things NS says

  207. Liz g says:

    Ruglonian @ 12.55
    No worries….there’s some real stoaters on here 🙂 .
    There’s the lolypop gang who are arsey with each other all the bloody time.
    Then there’s the lullabie league who try a bored everyone to death….and don’t get me started in the flying monkeys working for the witch wi a crown…. 🙂

  208. Osakisushi says:

    I’m pretty sure, had it been possible to award costs against Mr Salmond in his “criminal” trial, it would have happened. After all, if he didn’t exist, there would have been no need for what seemed like a conspiracy against him.
    The fact he lives and breathes made the case necessary.

    You did the right thing in appealing. Dugdale has doubtless gone through hell, worrying “what if” for the last year, and the important detail your case has now been vindicated by a Sheriff and 3 Judges may prove very important in the future.

  209. Joe says:

    It would be very amusing if it wasn’t real. Supporters of a party who are literally bringing in totalitarian, science denying policies complaining about the quality of comments. Thats not hyperbole. Its whats happening right now. There was a time when I wondered how things like the Holodomor could happen.

  210. CameronB Brodie says:

    “but mostly the biggest offence I commit here is by knowing my shit on what I speak and being happy to disagree.”

    From the perspective of post-modern critical social theory, this is what is called a stinking whopper. It probably hasn’t gone unnoticed that Joe has a reflexive, ideological, loathing for my ethical position. So if you believe Joe you’ll probably believe Brexit is in the best interests of Scotland.


  211. Joe says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    I have frequently attempted to debate you properly. However it gets down to you either calling me names or calling time because you have either difficulty reading, or your PTSD or your brain damage or something. Every time. Im not the only one. You are a tragic human being. You have my sympathies.

  212. Joe says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    I just looked at your link. It has no relevance. You use these links like a kid with special needs flourishes a plastic wand while failing at showing his sympathetic pals some magic trick he thinks hes doing. Im honestly feeling pangs of pity here. Im sorry.

  213. Masslass says:

    Just know this Stuart, there are people all over the world who have your back. Just give a shout. We are all here. Thank you for all you do.

  214. twathater says:

    @ Liz g and Ruglonian , Ruglonian I’m sorry but I must disagree with “this place has *never* been an “SNP echo chamber”, or “hostile to original thought” I have been on here for years lurking and posting and can assure you that any dissent from the SNP NS line was frowned upon and a pile on ensued ,I even suffered from it when I ( God forbid ) pulled up Robert Peffers on his rancorous way in approaching people

    TBH that is why when Stu EXPOSED the failings of the SNP’s Road to indy he was rounded on by some who he had to ban , and others who didn’t like what he said left to go to other sites uncritical of NS and the SNP
    However I agree that today’s comments are more thoughtful and acceptable apart from the people who relish today’s verdict but I’m sure Stuart won’t lose sleep over them

  215. twathater says:

    Stuart I know your not a vindictive person and I know that what has been done to your integrity and reputation although found innocent really rankles and upsets you

    But I was thinking , what would annoy and upset your detractors most and show them that they may have won a small tussle but they have most certainly not won the war

    Would it be possible say to maybe gather a few friends like Alex Salmond , Craig Murray ,Breeks ,Gordon indycar Ross , Jeggit ,and a few others and start a wee political party , dae ye think that might annoy some people who think they’ve got ye beat , onyways it’s just a thought

  216. Liz g says:

    Twathater @ 3.16
    While it’s true that some posters on here would hear not a bad word against the SNP…the site itself is not and has never been an SNP site and I think that’s what Ruglonian was getting at.
    As you know to your cost 🙂 people will defend the SNP no matter what,but there were always plenty of poster’s willing to at least explore and examine what they are doing.

    What’s really happening is that because a lot of regulars are in contact using other means they’ve fell out of the habit of posting here…. and standards BTL have slipped somewhat.

    We don’t even have the courtesy to mark a comment as ” Off Topic”anymore and while not the worst thing and I’m guilty of it myself it was a “respect prompt” that helped keep things relatively sane,a minor thing but also an acknowledgement that BTL was primarily a place to discuss the Revs article…

  217. Sinky says:

    BBC Question Time again taking the p*sh with its so called. Scottish edition tonight. Some lady from a small English NHS Confederation Tory Journalist Alex Massie, Red Tory Ian Union Jacket Murray, Tory Mp still to be confirmed by Dominic Cummings and John Swinney.

    with Indy running at 50% spot the problem. And how many will point out that Scotland’s care home situation is better than in England which has over 22,000 Covid19 deaths according LSE researchers.

  218. Robert Louis says:

    At last, following recent events, the people of England can see that the BBC is NOT their friend. It is a state mouthpiece, no more, no less. How anybody who regards themselves as a journalist can work for that propagandist outfit, is beyond me.

    It was clear to those working for the end of English colonial rule of Scotland in 2014, that the BBC was as biased as North Korean State television. Now people in England are starting to see the BBC for what it truly is, a lying politically manipulated, propagandist mouthpiece.

    Dominic ‘let them die’ Cummings, says ‘jump’, and the BBC says ‘how high?’.

    Those who still choose to work there, should hang their heads in shame. They know they are taking their pay, to support state (English TORY) propaganda. They know, they really do know. They have no shame.

    BBC motto; ‘Nation shall speak lies unto nation’.

  219. Sinky says:

    On BBC Gms Brian Taylor fails to point out that Sir Keir Starmer was not part of the opposition leaders who wrote to the EU requesting an extention the EU negotiations as the NEW labour leader wants to get Brexit done and refused to sign the letter.

  220. Scozzie says:

    Aww man so sorry to hear the appeal didn’t go in your favour. But dust yourself off and get back on the horse.

    What your case, Alex Salmond’s, Craig Murray’s and Mark Hirst etc show is that the real fight for us independence supporters is with the Scottish Establishment which is as devious as the British contingent.

    For too long we’ve been preoccupied with the British, that needs to change. The more we expose the Scottish Establishment as the enemies of independence, the more we have a chance of getting people to start thinking beyond ‘just one more mandate’. And for the SNP fanboys – yes I do include many of the current SNP as firmly part of the Scottish Establishment!

    But one thing’s for sure the independence movement needs to re-group and declare an ultimatum – action on independence or you’re voted out. No more mandates, no more setting up Commissions to build a so called case, no more asking for Section 30s. Just get on with the job using an election plebiscite followed by a UN request for international recognition. I’m bemused why we’re feart to use this route to independence.

  221. Rm says:

    Every SNP politician should have to swear an oath to look after and work hard for the benefit of Scotland and to push for independence at every opportunity, what a laugh when was the last time you heard an SNP politician speak about independence, they just sit get a good salary, build up a pension pot, after this virus I hope their going to travel all over Scotland, hold meetings at every local hall, advertising everywhere , people voted for devolution and people will vote for Independence , but if the SNP politicians are not interested something’s nae right.

  222. CameronB Brodie says:

    As usual, Joe is being creative with the truth and is simply spouting mince.

    Ideal Types of Law from the Perspective of Psychological Typology

  223. Polly says:

    Sorry for this judgement, yet not unsurprising. Everything you say about Dugdale and the state of Scottish media is true. The hypocritical and the blatantly lying are no longer censured and exposed, if they ever were. I think for a brief period they might have been. After years, centuries, where media didn’t report accurately on things, for a brief period we seemed to have media who were willing to open up the curtain on how power behaves behind it away from the public eye. At first there was shock and shame but somewhere in the time since politicians, public figures and aristocracy decided they can live with it and carry on as if nothing had happened. And as for the media now, with very few honourable exceptions, they’re even worse, they turn our outrage at what these people do into a vast in-joke between themselves or even with the people being written about, or even worse, see our outrage as something to be used against us.

    We who want truth and fairness know it when we see it, they can’t stop that, and we know who we can trust Stuart, and I’d choose you any day.

  224. CameronB Brodie says:

    Joe wants you to believe he understand that which he talks about and that he is open minded. Take it from me, he doesn’t and he isn’t.

    Law in the Spirit of our Age:
    Between Modernity and Postmodernity?

  225. CameronB Brodie says:

    Unlike Joe, I’m actually trained to support the development of sustainable communities.


  226. I also think the Scottish judiciary got such a bloody nose from failing to force a conviction on Alex Salmond that the thought of another Scottish patriot getting a win in court was not going to happen.

    As someone said at least you have had four Judges agree that you are not homophobic and that Kezia Dugdale did defame you,

    Kezia Dugdale has been proven by four Judges to be a defamer,

    she will spend the rest of her life being a proven defamer,

    money is transient a reputation is for life,

    you although poorer walk away innocent where Kezia Dugdale richer walks away a proven defamer.

  227. ahundredthidiot says:

    Anyone putting their hopes in HR 2021 need to wake up and smell the coffee, either it wont happen, or it will be comprised massively of a postal vote (thanks to our little flu friend) – and just like 2014 – the postal vote will make sure that we fall below the required Mark (50/50) as it will be rigged to fuck fuckery.

    We’ve nae chance – probably never did.

  228. Famous15 says:

    So every time Kezia Dugdale appears above the parapet with her girly giggly opinions the reply should commence with:

    “Ms Dugdale as a liar and defamer , confirmed by three of the most senior judges in Scotland,who let her off with no monetary penalty because she was too stupid to realise what she was saying now expresses her views on …”

  229. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not sure if we do have a direct constitutional route to connect with the rule-of-law, but that does not mean there are not the means to defend Scotland from authoritarian English nationalism.

    Critical International Law: Recent Trends in the Theory of International Law

  230. manandboy says:

    Just another ‘show trial’ staged by The Establishment, flexing their muscles in the Independence War.

  231. Gary45% says:

    Scot Finlayson@8.44
    Sums it up perfectly.
    Nice One.

  232. Willie says:

    Yes I couldn’t agree more Liz G about the importance of looking at how judges get appointed.

    There is no doubt in my mind that political appointments are made. Masked maybe, but there none the less. And of course as individuals become well heeled eminent important people there is a natural tendency in many to become more conservative and establishment. Think of pompous comfortable politicos and you get the picture.

    But the problem is now. We have a corrupt police force who has a political assassination unit dedicated to taking dissent out. We have a public prosecutor determined to pursue charges on the flimsiest of pretexts. And we have judges who will rule, as the did in the Rev Stu case that a defamation occurred but that it’s all right.

    And then we have police forces absolutely committed to the non application of the law against the chosen law breakers. Cummings’s driving 260 miles to break lockdown, and then later another sixty miles to test his eyes is the most prominent example.

    But there have been plenty of examples in Scotland from Prince Charles fleeing London to Aberdeenshire to wealthy Tories travelling to their second Highland Homes. It is complete and utter anarchy.

    Well the new Krays p run the show, and their writ extends to Scotland.

    A police and judicial system the that maelevolently pursues dissidents on purely political grounds with the same police and judiciary totally willing to condone law breaking by the elite. And it is the same in financial matters where the little folks pay and or are pursued for tax whilst the elite are not.

    Welcome to the jungle where the big cats eat their defenceless prey. Rich feeding for the few and the sham of the rule of law is there to keep it that way.

    Ah well, the big cats, free to do what they wish in a compromised wrule of law it’s maybe worth recalling what happened to George Cornell called Ronnie Kray, who was a good friend of Lord Boothby and other prominent politicians, a ‘ fat poof ‘

  233. Astonished says:

    Willie @12.42. Spot on.

    They think they hold all the power. They do not. The whirlwind is coming. I suggest Rev that we all live for that day.

    P.S. Remember the Nazi Judge Roland Freisler was killed by his own court.

  234. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Whether some people like it or not, WOS has a powerful editorial voice. Sometimes that makes it pretty straightforward to establish what the Wings viewpoint is on specific topics.

    It has a pretty clear opinion on the FM, last expressed in great detail here:

    Interesting that Rev Stu chose the word ‘betrayer’ but, given that the more common synonym is banned btl, it would be a bit hypocritical to use it, no matter how apt.

    How apt is it? That’s a matter for debate, opinion, but that single post drew a lot of hostility and criticism and probably caused a bit of an exodus. (We’ll just have to wait for readership stats to see the extent.) So it’s fair to say that Nicola Sturgeon is not exactly Flavour of the Month here, from the site owners’ point of view, and the more we hear about what was going on in the lengthy run-up to the Salmond trial, the more we discover about the dodgy characters she has surrounded (shielded?) herself with, the clearer it becomes that WOS has, for a long time now, been operating with one hand tied, editorially, behind its back – it could not tell us what it knew. To some extent that is still the case but Alex Salmond’s book will, fingers crossed, spark some kind of showdown, a battle from which only one will emerge. And that person will lead the next indy campaign.

    Plenty of us, for all sorts of reasons, don’t want that person to be Nicola Sturgeon: we feel that we’ve waited far too long for her to act; we feel patronised and ignored by some of her most faithful ministers; we feel bewildered that she has aligned the Scottish Government, and by extension us, with a profoundly sinister science-denying, powerful TRA movement which appears to be beyond normal accountability and has a disproportionate influence on many aspects of public life, most particularly education; we feel genuine shock and disgust that so many of the FM’s closest colleagues appear to have conspired to commit perjury with the aim of sending Alex Salmond to prison for the rest of his life, and bewildered that she has not, even now, months after the verdict, expressed anything resembling an apology for the torment he and his family endured.

    The list could go on. But perhaps the single most damning fact about Nicola Sturgeon is as stated here, in ‘The Betrayer’:

    ‘And yet the party whose primary/sole reason for existence is achieving independence for Scotland has taken those six resounding mandates in half a decade and delivered absolutely nothing with them. For all those millions of votes, Scotland is not one inch closer to its independence now than it was on 19 November 2014.’

    That statement explains why so many of us are critical of NS – forget everything else. All we want is a fair crack at gaining independence. That’s why we came here in the first place. And Nicola Sturgeon, for whatever reason, is actively stymying it.

    This place has a clearly stated opinion on Nicola Sturgeon and it’s not a flattering one. Those of you who come btl here and finger-wag the rest of us for doubting her should not assume that the non-commenting readership agrees with you. Some would hesitate to label you as ‘trolls’ but your behaviour amounts to the same. Be aware that we can see you and know what you’re doing – don’t be fooled that because this place has been relatively quiet, you can claim it as your own.

    Plenty of ‘old’ Wingers are still around. We know why we were attracted to this place, what it offered. The place has taken a battering, as have Rev and many of us. Some, like Craig Murray, still have tough fights ahead. Plenty of us have fallen out with Rev or each other, some have gone away for good, others drift away awhile to rest. But what we have in common is a desire for indy. That has nothing to do with personalities, egos. Sometimes, the ‘good guys’ really do win in the end. We believe that victory is being denied us, for reasons which may now be hard to fathom but will, in time, be revealed. For that to happen, the SNP needs to change, or be changed – that can not and will not happen so long as Nicola Sturgeon remains in place.

  235. lothianlad says:

    Stus post – ‘the Betrayer’ is so accurate and total evidence that Sturgeon has NO intention of moving for Independence, not unless forced too anyway.

    Mandates squandered again and again, but still getting huge public support, has made this shower of self seeking, lazy leeches ( with some notable exceptions) a disgrace to the founding principles of the SNP and those who tirelessly campaigned for them over the years!

    I fear that the SNP like New Labour have not only taken their support for granted, but, like NL they will embark on more disgraceful and damaging pursuits that will see their support drift away!

    That of course may be the grand plan all along. Don’t pursue Indy and damage the Indy cause from within.
    Its happening in front of us and Stu, Craig and others on here have highlighted it so often.

    I suspect that with the coming shitstorm for NS post the covid 19 crisis, she will seek to divert it by suddenly making big noises about Independence and the need to campaign.

    of course this will just be superficial and the party will have to face out the leadership at some stage. The damage though will be another gift to the scum press and media who will go all out again with ammo against independence.

    Notice how she is suddenly the darling of the unionist media, even dropping the saltire from view in her daily briefings.

    We need to Get Angus MacNeil or those like him to the helm. Folk in the party who actually give a shit about Independence!

    Anyone who has witnesses Sturgeons rise through the ranks will know that she did not get their alone. Some very influential people gave her a clear run to get to the top.
    that was always the plan.

    Unionists have taken control of the party and we need to get it back. Even the local branches are infested with careerists, opportunists and nature deniers!

    Its a big fight, but it sadly must take place so we can grab the golden opportunity so many before us fought to secure!

  236. Republicofscotland says:

    So the Scottish branch manager of the London Tory party Jackson Carlaw has railed against Johnson his boss, but he wouldn’t presume for a minute to tell him what to do over the Cummings fiasco.

    For those of you thinking that the worm had turned, it hasn’t though Carlaw can pirouette on a Sixpence continuously if it suits his and his unionist party’s needs in Scotland.

    No Carlaw and his band of self serving Tories at Holyrood haven’t finally grown a collective conscience, the Borg from Star Trek have more morality than that lot.

    No Carlaw fears that with the Scottish election a year away that this debacle surrounding Cummings and Johnson will damage Scottish branch office Tories in Scotland getting re elected.

  237. Bob Mack says:

    Surely there are some things on which we can agree. It is impossible for me to vote Labour,Lib Dem, or Tory because they are all party’s determined to save the Union.

    I vote SNP for several reasons but primarily for the prospect of Independence.

    The dilemma I have therefore is that the party I vote for seem to have lost its way in that regard. They seem to be interested primarily in other issues as a priority,, at the expense of Independence. Indeed interviews with top SON figures failing to mention the subject does not fill me with hope that it remains high on the agenda.

    Glaring opportunities like Brexit have been neglected though much wind was expended on slogans telling us we would not be dragged out of Europe.We are out one way or another.

    I am losing faith in the ability of the SNP to deliver that which I desire. I know for sure Alex Salmond would have made gold from straw with the opportunities Nicola has had.

    My dilemma leaves me voting for a party purely for their better level of governance, but not for the one thing I truly wish for, which is merely the opportunity to use my sovereign power as a citizen of Scotland to choose our destiny.

    Frustrated__yes. Angry___yes Disappointed__ yes.

    Al! Of the above, which inevitably emerges on these forums.

    We must have a way round this situation.

  238. susan says:

    Some very trenchant comments recently about the judiciary, the SNP and NS. Unfortunately I agree wholeheartedly.

  239. Frank Gillougley says:

    Dear Stuart,

    just from one human soul to another, I have followed this site daily from its beginnings. i read it and most of the btl comments from all the contributors like an ongoing novel in real time. Quite simply, it has kept me going and opened my eyes through these awful times by your spotlight on the cesspit that is scottish politics and establishment. I and many others are indebted. there is also a sense that all your fights are also wingers fights. if you are insulted then we are insulted. to have created a sense of community is a huge achievement.

    I really dont give a shit about schisms huffs and fall outs and trolls – all of that is just chaff. i appreciate the real anarchic non-censoring of contributions. i really just had to say you have a supporter in all you do and keep on doing.

  240. Capella says:

    Full warp on the propaganda front this morning. UK track and trace launched a week early and before their “world beating” app is ready. Why? Kate Burley thinks it’s to wipe Dominic Cummings off the airwaves. I think it’s to wipe Nicola Sturgeon’s Scottish launch of the test, trace and isolate programme starting today. BBC has removed all mention of the Scottish programme and substituted the UK one which doesn’t apply in Scotland.

    What a disaster of a public broadcasting service, actively denying the Scottish people the information they need in a deadly pandemic.

    Here’s Kate Burley making mincemeat out of hapless PR man Matt Hancock.

  241. Republicofscotland says:

    So for some we shouldn’t be talking about obtaining independence from this ill gotten union whilst the virus is still active and we’re in lockdown. Yet down South Johnson and Co have absolutely no qualms about pushing for a post-Brexit EU deal, all the way through this pandemic, which will more than likely end in a no deal.

    As Covid-19 takes up virtually all of the media’s attention, behind the scenes Johnson is hurriedly drawing up plans to cut tariffs on US agricultural imports, to speed up a trade deal with the US. We’ll see cheaper and inferior American goods and foods undercut UK producers, and strict UK hygiene regulations will be sidelined in the process, let’s not forget that the “principled” Tory Minister Douglas Ross was quick to vote down strict UK hygiene standards in the past.

    Kevin McKenna wrote in the National newspaper yesterday that a billion pounds worth of public sector contracts have already been awarded to private companies without the tender process or scrutiny at Westminster. Don’t think for one second that Westminster machinations have skipped a beat during this pandemic and lockdown, they haven’t, its business as usual including keeping Scotland locked into this god forsaken union.

    The Ipsos Mori poll, for the state broadcaster the BBC (the result must’ve stuck in their throats) has shown that more than half of Scots want a second independence referendum we must keep independence at the forefront, and Sturgeon must be held to account on it, for as she promised a indyref in 2020, she must be compelled by us to hold a indyref in the not too distant future.

  242. donnywho says:

    Off topic but I have been looking for Gillian Russell “kilt-fitter” and she seems somewhat of a ghost. But I did find a reference to a Gillian Russell on this site… strangely she does not seem to have any profile or links to the BBC elsewhere. Nor can I be sure it is the same person. But it would be informative to note that the BeeB has not revealed any links if it is the same girl!

  243. Colin McGeechan says:

    Stuart, you have a great heart. Many a person would have given up or gone mad railing against the galactic stupidity you have faced and its casual, inevitable violence. My prayers/thoughts/sweary anger are with you.

  244. McDuff says:

    FG 10.02
    I second that.

  245. ronnie anderson says:

    Ian Brotherhood .

    We have rode many vehicles in the pursuit of Independence over the years and with our single minded determination WE will achieve our aims .

    Onwards N Upwards

  246. schrodingers cat says:

    The list could go on. But perhaps the single most damning fact about Nicola Sturgeon is as stated here, in ‘The Betrayer’:

    ‘And yet the party whose primary/sole reason for existence is achieving independence for Scotland has taken those six resounding mandates in half a decade and delivered absolutely nothing with them. For all those millions of votes, Scotland is not one inch closer to its independence now than it was on 19 November 2014.’

    2015, independence wasnt in the manifesto
    2016, indyref2 was only contingent on a leave win
    2017, we won the majority of mps with 38% of the vote, but did propose indyref2
    2019, we won the majority of mps with 45% of the vote, but did propose indyref2

    none of the above is or was a mandate for indy, the last 4 were a mandate for indyref2. there’s a difference.

  247. TJenny says:

    I agree with everything being said re SNP, NS and the judiciary and especially Frank Gillougley, who said ‘I and many others are indebted. there is also a sense that all your fights are also wingers fights. if you are insulted then we are insulted. to have created a sense of community is a huge achievement.’

    Stu, I can’t begin to imagine what you’ve been going through, but it’s now past, and it’s been proved you’re NOT a homophobe, and as they say, ‘whatever disnae kill you, makes you stronger.

    And, as a wee O/T (HT to Liz 😉 ) I see that Paris Gourtsoyannis, of the Scotsman (a misnomer if ever there was), he who complained constantly against Broadcast Scotland being at NS daiy briefings, will now be going to work in August as producer on BBC Questiontime. Obviously seen as a staunch anti indy unionist. The rewards are there folks if you’re prepared to sell out Scotland.

  248. Kenny says:

    Regarding NS, I could never understand, right on the eve of the referendum, why she shouted “No more Tories!” I believe this was shown on TV.

    It seemed deliberately to lower Yes voters and it also seemed completely artificial, like a bad actor or bad paid agent provocateur shouting “down with royalty!!!” at a meeting of the Jacobin Club…

    Compare that with a committed advocated for independence, Tommy Sheridan. Andrew Neil interviewed him also on TV on the eve and steered the question the same way (hmmmmm). But canny Tommy said: “There may well be a Tory government in an independent Scotland… and I will accept that, because the main thing is: it will have been democratically elected by the people of Scotland and that is precisely what we want.”

    I am also uncomfortable with NS’s weirdness over constantly bringing sex (only not adult intercourse, but all the outlying stuff) into politics. I believe an individual should have all the sex they want, privately – so it is weird when some adults choose rather to bring it into politics (and, even creepier, seemingly always in relation to minors). Shame Freud is not around to analyse all these weird politicians (who must be a gift to MI5).

  249. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC –

    Unless I’ve misquoted the original article or entirely stripped it of context then I don’t believe I’ve ‘materially’ misrepresented the editorial position – the whole thrust of my comment makes it plain that that’s what was being referred to and the title of Rev’s post is, in itself, a nano-editorial.

  250. Bob Mack says:

    Mandate ? Breeks is would have apoplexy at that, and I would agree with him.

    We have a mandate already. We al! Know what that is. We are a Sovereign people.

    Now you either agree with that and want it brought into the light in open court, or you lack belief in its validity and say it isn’t true, therefore no point.

    We have always had a mandate despite promises,offers of conditions. That is my belief.

  251. schrodingers cat says:

    the reason the snp proposed the ref route to indy was based on the belief that indy needed to be supported by the majority of the people of scotland ie +50%, not just the majority of mps/msp’s

    that is something we have never done in any election, even the polls have never showed this (one 51% poll just before indyref1 and a 59% poll just after euref, both outlying figures)

    but now we are polling +50% consistently 🙂

    the cv19 shit show will roll on until 1st july, when no deal will be officially confirmed

    slab/libdems are now non existent and the tories here in scotland are in free fall due to bojo and domcum fiasco. plenty of time for those 2 to screw up even more before xmas.

    by jan 2021, i believe support for yes will be consistently +55%

    that is the point where nicola should say that “after repeated refusal by bojo to grant s30/indyref2, we intend to make he2021 a plebicite on independence”

    we really should be discussing the new list party for 2021, time to relegate the unionists to the cheap seats up at the back in holyrood

  252. schrodingers cat says:


    We have a mandate already. We al! Know what that is. We are a Sovereign people.

    Now you either agree with that and want it brought into the light in open court, or you lack belief in its validity and say it isn’t true, therefore no point.

    We have always had a mandate despite promises,offers of conditions. That is my belief.


    we are a sovereign people, no question, but independence is something that requires the majority of the sovereign people to support it. not the majority of elected mps in some weird fptp electoral system.

    the good news is that for the 1st time, the polls now show they do, whats not to like 🙂

  253. meg merrilees says:


    and just to confirm your thoughts on the Imperial Broadcasting company limited they have confirmed that a kind of Proms 2020 series will happen with all sorts of archive concerts being broadcast instead of real, live ones however by the last fortnight they hope to do some live concerts and OF COURSE, The Last Night must go ahead so they can get pissed, wave the cross of St. George, pat Boris de Pfeffel etc..on the back and sing Land of (no) Hope and Glory…

    What a shower….

  254. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC –

    ‘by jan 2021, i believe support for yes will be consistently +55%

    that is the point where nicola should say that “after repeated refusal by bojo to grant s30/indyref2, we intend to make he2021 a plebicite on independence”’

    We all want to see that happen, but honestly, based on her behaviour over the past year or so, do you believe that she will?

  255. schrodingers cat says:


    i know you were quoting the article, but you did say

    “The list could go on. But perhaps the single most damning fact about Nicola Sturgeon is as stated here, in ‘The Betrayer’:”

    i dont think the comment in the article about the 5 mandates for indy is correct, for the reasons i gave.

    i repeat my comment
    nicola has 4 mandates for indyref2 but no mandates either in actual elections or opinion polls for independence

    until now that is

  256. schrodingers cat says:

    We all want to see that happen, but honestly, based on her behaviour over the past year or so, do you believe that she will?

    possibly, i would merely point out that until now, we havent seen consistent +50% support for yes, so she couldnt/wouldnt have done this before, this explains her past “behaviour”

  257. Scozzie says:

    schrodingers cat @ 10.41am

    That seems a bit of a cop out.
    The whole point of the SNP is supposedly independence for Scotland – if voting for the SNP is not and every time a mandate for indy what’s the point of voting for them? It’s point 2 of their constitution (point 1 being their name). So it should go without saying that a vote for them is endorsement from the sovereign Scottish people for them to deliver independence.

    Of course, in the real world we have bitterly seen that the SNP treat their constitution with the same contempt they show to their voters.

  258. schrodingers cat says:


    btw, i dont think it matters what nicola actually does ian, all elections going forward will be seen as indy plebicites

  259. schrodingers cat says:

    Scozzie says:

    That seems a bit of a cop out.
    The whole point of the SNP is supposedly independence for Scotland – if voting for the SNP is not and every time a mandate for indy what’s the point of voting for them? It’s point 2 of their constitution (point 1 being their name). So it should go without saying that a vote for them is endorsement from the sovereign Scottish people for them to deliver independence.
    no problem from me this account, im merely pointing out that the sovereign Scottish people have never give any endorsement to the snp or yes to deliver independence, only indyref1 and 2.

    until now that is 🙂

  260. Bob Mack says:


    We hit the same old problem. It needs elected officials to put that idea firmly in place. The people can take to the streets al! they want and even in vast numbers, but to little effect. They will be denounced regardless of numbers as extremists.

    No, right now we need a figurehead, a prism to focus all that energy and movement onto one aim. We early do not have that as yet.

    I hope next year brings new and determined blood into that struggle.

  261. Robert Graham says:

    OOPS I didn’t realise this site had Morphed into Scotland in Union

    Silly me eh

    More BAD SNP shite on here than the bloody BBC

  262. Joe says:


    Well said indeed. Especially the last paragraph. This total fixation on sex/gender is beyond ridiculous.

  263. Bob Mack says:

    @Robert Graham,

    Thanks Robert, that was really enlightening. Go back to sleep.

  264. schrodingers cat says:

    @bob mack

    i couldnt agree more with your comment. but if you follow my posts, you will see that the idea that 2021 he will be a plebicite on indy, regardless of what nicola or the snp says. to that end,

    we should really be discussing the new indy list party

  265. Bob Mack says:


    Yes it could be viable, but we still have a Westminster who will state that the election is not a UK plebiscite in their view, and nothing will change that fact.I

    Then what ?

  266. Scozzie says:

    Robert Graham @ 11.23am
    I don’t see how the comments are akin to SIU???
    Are independence voters not allowed to criticise the SNP? Ian Brotherhood shared a pertinent quote from The Betrayer article that ‘we are not one inch closer to independence since 2014’. I’d go as far to say that we’ve even gone backwards.

    But I’m open to being convinced and to hear your arguments on what ways the SNP have got us closer to achieving independence. Personally, I don’t see it and am deflated. I couldn’t be more disappointed in them. I just see them as wanting to win elections and us as voting fodder. Very reminicent to the poor sods who voted labour for 40 years.

  267. Ottomanboi says:

    The independence dynamic is rather weakened by lack of choice. It’s SNP, and the current clique driving it, or nothing. Why there are not conservative or socialist or liberal or national renewal party political tributaries feeding into the great nationalist river is not just because of the handicap of the hybrid electoral system but an indicator of how toxically antipathetic to Scottish interests the first three of these streams have become and how esoteric within the insular norms of British politics the concept of ‘national renewal’ is perceived.
    I often come across many cases of Scots whose Scottishness goes little deeper than their tartan painted skin and who when the chips are down are all too happy to wash even that veneer away with English supplied detergent.
    As a cosmopolitan I simply cannot understand why this culturally provincial anglocentric bolus still constipates the Scottish body politic.
    By now the SNP, were it functioning effectively, should have cleared this psychological blockage from the system. At the moment it seems to offer little more than otc pain relief.

  268. schrodingers cat says:

    Bob Mack says:
    28 May, 2020 at 11:39 am

    Yes it could be viable, but we still have a Westminster who will state that the election is not a UK plebiscite in their view, and nothing will change that fact.I

    Then what ?

    possibly, but we wouldnt be further back than we are now, and the argument for scottish independence being the will of the soveriegn people of scotland will have been made. i think wm may find it difficult to refuse and so will the eu.

    my point, i wont die on a hill for a cause supported by only 45% of the people, by 55%? aye i would, 55% enables everyone to become more beligerent. blockading grangemouth, aberdeen heliport. hit wm where it hurts

  269. schrodingers cat says:

    Bob Mack says:
    28 May, 2020 at 11:39 am

    Yes it could be viable, but we still have a Westminster who will state that the election is not a UK plebiscite in their view, and nothing will change that fact.I

    Then what ?

    i dont think hypothesising about what wm may or may not do if and when an advantageous situation for us arises is a reason not to make the situation happen?

    we win the war by fighting the battles that are in front of us now, not those which may or may not happen sometime in the future

  270. schrodingers cat says:

    I’m open to being convinced and to hear your arguments on what ways the SNP have got us closer to achieving independence.


    we have now had, for the 1st time, 5 +50% polls in support for indy,

    you dont think this brings us closer to achieving independence?

    remind me which party has brought us to this position?

  271. schrodingers cat says:

    we should really be discussing the new indy list party

  272. ahundredthidiot says:

    SC – re 55%, you have a very, very long wait then

    he who dares wins my friend, given everything that went on over the past 3 years, the gamble should’ve been taken – one of two outcomes would’ve prevailed.

    a – Scotland wins Her Independence, or

    b – We lose, and rightly so, for at least a generation

    I would have even gambled Holyrood/devolution on it. Win, we win big. Lose, we lose big – seems only fair.

    And consider this, after everything that has been said about not being dragged out of the EU against our will, we now just look like a yappie wee terrior wae nae teeth!

    Little wonder the English Parliament isn’t afraid of us – we simply amuse them.

  273. Bob Mack says:


    No, I’m sorry. It is called planning a campaign. Your strategy is laid out before you make a step forward, and you only change it to meet obstacles which were unexpected.

    Westminster saying No to indyref2 is not unexpdected. In fact, it’s almost a certainty. It’s the central plank of resistance

    If the SNP are only winging it from day to day,and do not have a solid plan to overcome this,we are in real trouble.

    At least Ms Cherry has thought of this and has possible solutions. Legal brain perhaps.

  274. robbo says:

    I’m with what
    schrodingers cat says:

    This will of the people stuff ,come on,really?

    You have 25-30% of ultra yoon loyalists(give or take), who will never ever show any will to express that here.Their loyalty is Queenie and England. It’s the middle floaters(the people) that you need to convince. You need a referendum for that.NS has said many times there won’t be one until polls show we can win it!

    We’re all frustrated regarding getting there but unless someone can pluck a absolute slam dunk win in the courts here and internationally then it’s a no go and would take years- half of us will have gone to meet the big man upstairs before that ever came to pass.

    If we don’t win a ref that they then have to honour we’ll never get the chance of another .

  275. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @sc –

    I see what you’re saying.

    I should’ve said, ‘the most damning statement in that editorial’, or words to that effect.

    But the upshot is the same – millions of votes have been cast, rightly or wrongly, in the belief that a vote for SNP would hasten independence, be it via indyref2, UDI, Brexit-related cliff-edges or whatever else. We’re all still waiting with not the vaguest indication of when another referendum will happen, if at all.

    People can name specific dates on which they believe events changed public opinion. But I’m not going on about ‘public opinion’, I’m on about this place and what’s happened to it since the publication of that Jan 31st editorial.

    We all know the names of individuals, long-standing regulars in this place, who fell out with Rev – big-time – over their perception of NS and hopes for indyref2. Those people are still active, still want indy as much as the rest of us, but are commenting elsewhere. The voice has been diffused, weakened, and so the trolls and mischief-makers have crept in to take their place.

    Is there anyone – commenting here or anywhere else – who still believes that indyref2 will happen this year? What conceivable set of circumstances would make such a thing possible? It now seems farcical even to raise it as a topic for discussion. And yet many of the same people who accept that indyref2 2020 is dead (and it’s not even the end of May) seem sanguine about next years SG elections being a plebiscite on indy (Obvs, S Cat, this doesn’t apply to you) and angrily reject any talk of a new indy party to contest list seats.

    We’ve all seen the workings, thanks to Gavin Barrie and others. It’s a no-brainer.

    Does anyone seriously think that NS, or anyone else in the SNP hierarchy, will give such a party a nudge and a wink?

    Perhaps Joanna and Angus MacNeil would consider it, but NS? Nae chance. And if that makes me a spokesperson for SIU, so be it.

  276. schrodingers cat says:

    Bob Mack says:
    right now we need a figurehead, a prism to focus all that energy and movement onto one aim. We early do not have that as yet.

    I hope next year brings new and determined blood into that struggle.

    it would be nice to have a figurehead, but not absolutely necessary. the unionists won 53% of the vote in dec 2019, being lead by complete dross.

    no, what is required is a list party that the snp voters trust enough to lend them their vote.

    what trust the greens had in 2016 has evapourated due to their oppostion to the snp, oddly enough, generally on topics completely unrelated to green issues. this is a problem for us since, even on 54% of the constituency vote, it isnt certain that the snp will win an over all majority. in part, due to the vagaries of fptp. without the 6 green msps, we could be looking at a grand unionist coalition, indeed, we were only 4 msps away from this senario in 2016.

    we really need a viable indy list party the snp voters can trust.

    so far, all list parties i have seen have fallen into the same trap, rise, greens etc did.

    they are asking the yes/snp voters to use their independence supporting votes to further aims other than independence will not engender trust, regardless of electoral arithmetic

    eg, sip are anti gra, pro disabled and indy supporting etc, i spoke to them on twitter just after they announced the launch of their party. i was inundated with tweets from (some very rude people) but none of them mentioned indy, only gra reform.

    i have sympathy with them on this issue, i really do. but you cant ask indy voters to lend you their list vote for anything other than indy

    trust is everything otherwise the indy list party will fail

  277. Clapper57 says:

    So sorry that you lost the appeal….we are most definitely in the Cnut Age…controlled by them, dictated to by them AND living among them…..


    O/T Tory Mp Dr Caroline Johnson on SKY with Adam Boulton moaning about media’s incessant promoting of Cummings story and how the Cummings story being going for 5 DAYS… how long has the NIKE story been running….Hmm.

    Though you cannot help but think the SNP ask for it by playing nicely…Ian Blackford and Phillipa Whiteford publicly commending Douglas Ross resigning from his ‘Mr Nobody’ post….and doing this while the Tories in Scotland are relentlessly berating them, the has Douglas Ross done at every opportunity in HOC….

    Meanwhile Keir Starmer see the Cummings story as a ‘distraction’ in his article in Daily Mirror….but pro Labour pundits somehow see this as a strategy….would that be the same strategy as Corbyn….sit on his hands to give covert support to Tory government…Corbyn did it to appease the ones in his party who orchestrated a Chicken Coup against him ….that worked well didn’t it.

    Meanwhile we in Scotland are waiting for …what ?…..The Doomsday Scenario ….

    What do we want..Independence.

    When do we want it….well apparently it’s whenever the UKnotOK government ALLOWS us a referendum and also whenever a certain current Scottish party recognised in Scotland as an Indy party stops trying to save the UKnotOK from Brexit and gets the finger out…..

    You know THE party whose leader in HOC stated “Scotland will NOT being taken out of the EU against it’s will”…that party……get Alyn Smith on the case…apparently he asked the EU to ” leave a light on” for Scotland….wouldnae want to pay that lecky bill….perhaps use a candle…its easy to blow Scotland’s chances of Indy with peeps like Alyn Smith in the party….he is preoccupied with ‘other’ more pressing policies that he self identifies with….and he’s doing it deliberately too….

    Corona Virus will offer Boris and Co an opportunity to implement No Deal Brexit and blame ALL economic damage on Corona….it will also offer SNP opportunity to also use Corona Virus as an excuse to NOT pursue independence….what came first the chicken or the egg ?…we, in Scotland, ask the SNP what came first Scotland trying to achieve independence, Brexit or the Cornona virus ?

  278. Clapper57 says:

    @ Me @ 12.17pm

    ” Cornona virus”…obvs should be “Corona” virus….though Cor-NO-na might be more appropriate in the context of SNP wanting independence some time soon….Lol

  279. Bob Mack says:

    @Clapper 57

    Loved the lecky Bill comment.

    I can understand why the WHO have not gone for another Indyref in the short term due to public burn out, but surely that all changed with Brexit.

    I feel their efforts post 2014 were about playing the long game. Show the people of Scotland you could govern fairly and well for everybody and hope to win them over.

    However there were opportunities to postpone strategy. A gift horse of Brexit, which was looked in the mouth. They seemed unsure as to how to utilise it apart from “not out of Europe against its will mantra etc”.

    I cannot for the life of me understand it.

    They remain tied and appear to be unable to think on the hoof as it were.

    Something is clearly wrong.

  280. schrodingers cat says:

    ahundredthidiot says:
    SC – re 55%, you have a very, very long wait then

    53% yesterday, 54% 2 weeks ago, you think bojo has a cunning plan to reverse this trend? do tell

    robbo says:
    We’re all frustrated regarding getting there


    yes, we are, but we are getting there, +50% support is and always was a prerequisite, now we have it


    Bob Mack says:
    No, I’m sorry. It is called planning a campaign

    what do you think i am doing here? I am making solid and real proposals for the next battle. feel free to propose your own. asking what if, or why isnt a plan


    Ian Brotherhood says:
    millions of votes have been cast, rightly or wrongly, in the belief that a vote for SNP would hasten independence
    and it has, what it hasnt done is bring about independence, why, cos the majority of the sovereign people of scotland havnt given us a mandate for indy. annoying as that maybe, thems the rules ian. you know that?

  281. Breeks says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    28 May, 2020 at 11:55 am
    I’m open to being convinced and to hear your arguments on what ways the SNP have got us closer to achieving independence.


    we have now had, for the 1st time, 5 +50% polls in support for indy,

    you dont think this brings us closer to achieving independence?

    No. No. No. And a big fkg NO in sweary capital letters.

    Sturgeon has sold out Scotland’s Constitution, making a Scottish Democratic mandate subservient both to an English majority and arbitrary whim of Westminster. She has reduced Scotland from being a nation in a Treaty, to a Region going cap in hand to ask the U.K. Prime Minister for permission to hold a referendum which he is at liberty to refuse or postpone indefinitely, and a referendum which will in any case, (just like the precedent set by the Brexit result), will produce a result he will not be obliged to respect as constitutionally potent or binding in any way.

    She has also squandered, and squandered for absolutely no gain whatsoever, the Union busting Brexit result; the actual end of the Union, where the Sovereign and Democratic Mandate of Scotland was diametrically opposite to that of England, leaving Westminster with Hobson’s choice; preserving the Union but abandoning Brexit due to Scotland’s sovereign veto, or proceeding with Brexit, and leaving the Union in shreds because Brexit requires the subjugation of Scotland’s sovereign mandate.

    But far from having Westminster at our mercy, having the backstop ultimatum of a Brexit without Scotland, or Scotland without Brexit, Sturgeon on her own initiative sells out Scotland and hand’s Westminster a lifeline. She herself arbitrarily overrules the sovereign mandate of Scotland’s people, and lays Scotland bare and defenceless at the feet of Boris Johnson. A Scottish vote is “not” sovereign and “can” be overruled. Look Boris! I’ve just done it! What a fucking disgrace for any serving “Scottish” First Minister. Scotland’s own Benedict Arnold.

    So you want me to congratulate the SNP for a 50%+ polling statistic in a referendum process which they have emasculated and stripped of all constitutional potency??? They have sold Scotland down the river, and are no better than the 1707 Parcel of Rogues who got Scotland into this mess in the first place.

    Impeachment is too good for them, and it’s impossible to tell where incompetence ends and malignant t-reachery begins, and the spectre of the BritNat Establishment’s successful infiltration of the “Scottish Government” looms large. Instead of a Scottish Government leading to Scotland to Independence, we have a puppet Government which is party to Scotland’s constitutional and National integrity being disassembled from within.

    Such a government should be drummed out of office. The Declaration of Arbroath makes explicit reference to what should be done to those people who make Scotland subservient to English rule, in the precise and explicit way which the SNP just has.

    Fuck the SNP. I pledge my loyalty to the Sovereign Constitution of the Scottish Nation. – not the Mickey Mouse constitution (small “c”) of the Colonial Scotland Act and Westminster’s poodle assembly at the foot of the Royal mile.

  282. schrodingers cat says:

    Bob Mack says:

    A gift horse of Brexit, which was looked in the mouth. They seemed unsure as to how to utilise it apart from “not out of Europe against its will mantra etc”.

    I cannot for the life of me understand it
    the reason indy went on hold was cos in 2017 ge, the snp got 38% of the vote. whats so complicated? whats not to understand?

    we really should be discussing the new indy list party.

  283. Scozzie says:

    schrodingers cat @11.55pm
    Oh please, polls go up and down like a yo-yo. I suspect the current support for independence in the polls is more to do with the shambolic WM rather than anything tangible that the SNP has done to advance independence.

    What I was really asking for was concrete actions from SNP that has advanced us towards independence in the last 6 years.

    And before anyone jumps in with NS handling of COVID – she’s up against a clown man-child. I’d be seriously worried if she wasn’t polling well against him.

  284. schrodingers cat says:

    Breeks says:hey have sold Scotland down the river, and are no better than the 1707 Parcel of Rogues who got Scotland into this mess in the first place.

    when salmond signed the edinburgh agreement with cameron, i am on record on this forum complaining about it setting a precedent. which is exactly what happened. where were you?, we didnt need a s30 for indyref1, the euref didnt have one. but a precedent has now been set. not by nicola, by alex

    the rest of your post is empty rhetoric, we are where we are, what do you propose? if you just want to greet doon the phone, move out of the way, some of us are putting forward real proposals as to what we do next

  285. Clapper57 says:

    @ Bob Mack @ 12.31pm

    “I feel their efforts post 2014 were about playing the long game”.

    Yes Bob you are right…but then we both know, and others too, may ask …re long game… LONG is a piece of string ? Lol

    Have a good day ….

    @ Breeks @ 12.34pm

    Some very good comments in this post…as per.

    Have a good day

  286. Colin Alexander says:

    Sturgeon and her man must go, or the SNP must go.

    I won’t vote for the SNP if Sturgeon or her man remain in control of the party.

  287. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘SC –

    I’m not going to get into nit-pickign with you or anyone else over ‘the way forward’. There’s been enough of that in here lately.

    Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, ‘the way forward’ for Scottish independence, for many of us, does not include Nicola Sturgeon.

    Right now she’s on the radio saying that we must resist the urge to hug loved ones and take our own cutlery to barbeques.

    Enough is enough.

  288. robertknight says:

    Schroedinger’s Cat

    “we have now had, for the 1st time, 5 +50% polls in support for indy,

    you dont think this brings us closer to achieving independence?

    remind me which party has brought us to this position?”

    Allow me to remind you…

    The Conservative and Unionist Party.

    The 50% in the polls for Indy is entirely down to Boris and Brexit.

    The SNP have achieved the square root of f’all towards Indy since 2014 – unless allowing Scotland to be dragged out of the EU, (contrary to the balloon Blackford’s proclamations), was a deliberate ploy to boost No to Yes; which I very much doubt!

  289. Clapper57 says:

    @ robertknight @ 12.54pm

    I think you are right Robert…tis the actions of Tories that has driven the percentage up for Indy….a reaction…which…. the SNP should be doing everything it can to capitalise on…but instead choose to go into ANOTHER Brexit coalition with Lib Dems and Labour to extend Brexit transition period…for the …UK

    Have a good day

  290. schrodingers cat says:

    Scozzie says:
    Oh please, polls go up and down like a yo-yo.


    no they dont, they vary between polling companies but the average is generally within 3% points from the actual election results

    you asked, what have the snp ever done for us? they have brought us to a position where the majority will of the sovereign people of scotland support independence.

  291. gus1940 says:

    After a brief lull following VEDay 75 the Jingoism Jumbo is of and running again with Dunkirk 80 which will be a dress rehearsal for the really big one in a couple of months – Yes Folks prepare yourselves for Battle Of Britain 80 – it will be unbearable.

  292. schrodingers cat says:

    robertknight says:

    Allow me to remind you…

    The Conservative and Unionist Party.

    The 50% in the polls for Indy is entirely down to Boris and Brexit.

    The SNP have achieved the square root of f’all towards Indy since 2014 – unless allowing Scotland to be dragged out of the EU, (contrary to the balloon Blackford’s proclamations), was a deliberate ploy to boost No to Yes; which I very much doubt!


    yep, but politics isnt solitaire, its chess, has bojo made bad moves, aye, can blackford make a deliberate ploy to get the voters in england to vote leave…. complete havers

  293. schrodingers cat says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    ‘the way forward’ for Scottish independence, for many of us, does not include Nicola Sturgeon.

    so who will you vote for on the constituency vote in 2021? cos nicola has massive support and will lead the snp into that election. fact

    if you had been following my posts, im trying to explain a plan of action, (one which doesnt include nicola or the snp!!) for us all to move forward

    we really really should be discussing a new list party

  294. ahundredthidiot says:

    SC – the polls could hit 60% and NS will still not budge – save maybe to move the goalposts – like, only a certain pollster, only over 3 consecutive months, only amongst over 18s in case we don’t secure the age bracket again, only amongst 2014 No voters (that last one’s a joke of course, but you catch my drift).

    as far as BoJos cunning plan? – zero, he doesn’t have to, he’s not the Government – not the real one anyway.

  295. schrodingers cat says:

    ahundredthidiot says:
    SC – the polls could hit 60% and NS will still not budge

    nicola hasnt ever been in the situation of having +50% support in the polls, so has never had the option of changing direction and making an election the plebicite. we were at 42% in the ge in dec, we got 45% on the day.

    making that ge a plebicite on indy wasnt an option, thats why she held the position on indyref2

    with the polls now at +50%, that is now becoming an option. apart from a legal challenge over the s30, i cant see any other option.

    but as i said before, whether nicola changes tact is irrelevent, he2021 will be by default a plebicite on indy, no question

  296. Colin Alexander says:

    Stu Campbell

    Among the many excellent articles, in my opinion, the absolute worst article you ever wrote was this one:

    It read like a script out of the Project Fear handbook. It compared the exercise of democratic national sovereignty to white Rhodesia’s racist state.

    It used the most sensationalist selective comparisons to basically support an argument like Sturgeon’s SNP’s position: Scotland can only be sovereign when others give permission.

    However, I’m not writing this comment to have a go at you. Now a weight is off your shoulders, can I suggest you read it again and consider what has happened since you wrote it. I suggest you speak to Craig Murray and others who understand Treaty law, sovereignty and international law on independence.

    Can I also suggest you invite Craig Murray or Breeks to guest write a new article on what some people call UDI, or what in Scotland’s specific case should be called:

    A Declaration of Scotland’s sovereignty.

  297. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC (1.15) –

    ‘so who will you vote for on the constituency vote in 2021? cos nicola has massive support and will lead the snp into that election. fact’

    Great to see you back and commenting so much but you’re being a bit of a mischief – of course I’ll vote SNP on the constituency, and a 2nd indy party on list. Most of us will. You already know that.

    Does that mean many of us don’t want NS to sling her hook asap? No it doesn’t. And you already know that too.

  298. CameronB Brodie says:

    I personally favour a single issue plebiscite at the next Scottish GE, but whatever route is chosen, we must not let English Torydum further separate Scotland from the international rule-of-law. If the SNP can’t sell indy now, they should get out of the game, frankly. Of course, they will need to rid the party of trans-activism if they want to serve Scotland and not themselves.

    Bioethics and Human Rights in the Constitutional Formation of Global Health

  299. schrodingers cat says:

    you’re being a bit of a mischief


    good, but we still need to discuss this new indy list party

  300. Scozzie says:

    schrodingers cat @ 1.02pm
    That’s not true it’s 3% within margin of error not 3% within election results. Only exit polls will tell you an as near accurate election result and even that can have shocks.
    The Brexit poll of polls on 22nd June (1 day before the vote) had 48% remain and 46% leave.
    So going back to my point, there’s plenty time for the independence polls to bounce around between now and May 2021.

    As to your other point, they have not brought us to the point of majority support independence. They barely speak of independence. I would argue that the independence movement is moving people towards independence coupled with the disaster government in WM. SNP – sheesh they couldn’t be more quiet on independence. But like I said, show me some tangible actions and I’m persuaded to change my opinion.

  301. Colin Alexander says:


    Well done for reminding people that Scotland’s people never stopped being sovereign.

    That even back in 1320 as the Declaration of Arbroath showed, Scotland’s sovereignty was not a possession of the Scottish Crown, as explained in that document.

    We also have: George Buchanan’s DE JURE REGNI APUD SCOTOS. OR A Dialogue, concerning the due Priviledge of Government in the Kingdom of Scotland, Betwixt GEORGE BUCHANAN And THOMAS MAITLAND, By the said GEORGE BUCHANAN- Found here:;view=fulltext

    Add this to Claim of Right 1689, where the Parliament of Scotland held the Crown to account, sacking the monarch.

    Scotland’s sovereignty is held in common by the people of Scotland.
    It is not parliament, nor Crown.

    Sovereignty is not any or all of the organs of state.

    Sovereignty is ours: We the people of Scotland are sovereign.

    We have loaned the exercise of sovereignty to UK Parliament. We never gave away our sovereignty. We allowed them to exercise it.

    But, UK Parliament does not own our sovereignty. They are the users, not the owners.

    Sovereignty belongs to us, the people of Scotland: it’s time we took back control of our sovereignty for the good of Scotland’s people.

  302. schrodingers cat says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    Does that mean many of us don’t want NS to sling her hook asap? No it doesn’t. And you already know that too.

    aye, i do know that

    but for the indy list party tactic to succeed, we need to set out what it must be to avoid it failing in the same way other such pro indy list parties have in the past.

    eg, i believe that when list party msps resign, that party can choose replacements from their own lists? could we abuse this ruling? eg, you are elected as a list msp, but resign and we nominate alex salmond to replace you then vote him as leader. alex could then lead the questioning at fmq, then he resigns and is replaced by you. we could do this every week and have anyone we want to question the fm. ? i dont think theres a law against this?

    2. promise to never vote against an snp bill, motion etc. with 54% support, the snp will probably win an outright majority on the list so any indy list party msp’s (ILP) votes will be irrellevant and not needed anyway, even if the snp do fall a little short of an overall majority, the ILP msp’s abstaining would ensure that the snp will have a majority.
    that doesnt mean ILP msps cant disagree with snp policies, or introduce there own bills, but they are asking snp voters to lend them their votes. they must create this trust among the snp voters

  303. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “The SNP have achieved the square root of f’all towards Indy since 2014 – unless allowing Scotland to be dragged out of the EU, (contrary to the balloon Blackford’s proclamations)

    Robert, you are correct, the UK left the EU on 31 January 2020 at 23:00 GMT (although the transition is ongoing) despite Blackford et als assurance and in contravention of the will of the Sovereign People of Scotland and the refusal of Legislative Consent by our MSPs at Holyrood.

    Dates to watch:

    30th June 2020 – Financial services equivalence decision deadline

    1st July 2020 – Any extension to the transition period must be agreed before this date (also the Fisheries agreement deadline date) suspect radio silence from Radio Shortbreid when the Scottish Fleet is sold out!

    26th November 2020 – The trade deal must be finalised, translated and presented to the European Parliament.

    31st December – End of the transition period (unless an extension is agreed) and also Data protection adequacy ruling deadline

    Let’s see what The Scottish Government do following each of these.

    If they do fuck all then you will have been right.

    The SGs legal argument should be that UK Parliament officially ended the UK Union on 31st of January 2020 at 23:00 GMT by overriding the Sovereign Will of the People of Scotland to remain EU Citizens in favour of the will of England’s non sovereign electorate to Brexit.

  304. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scotland does not have a legal constitution. Britain did/does, and Brexit takes a shit on it. So Berxitania is only maintained by those who practice and support British constitutionalism, which denies Scots access to their human rights. As such, it is not a suitable means of escaping English Torydum.

    If we vote to end the union in a plebiscite, that is it. Game over and welcome to the 21st century.

    When Did Ignorance Become a Point of View?: Postmodern Legal Thought and Behavioral Biology

  305. schrodingers cat says:

    Scozzie says:
    like I said, show me some tangible actions and I’m persuaded to change my opinion.

    im not sure anything i say will convince you otherwise. but if like ian brotherhood, you recognise that you wont have a choice but to vote snp on the constituency vote, then we can leave it at that

    i do believe we need to talk about the new indy list party ILP

  306. schrodingers cat says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:
    28 May, 2020 at 2:23 pm
    “The SNP have achieved the square root of f’all towards Indy since 2014 – unless allowing Scotland to be dragged out of the EU, (contrary to the balloon Blackford’s proclamations)

    Robert, you are correct, the UK left the EU on 31 January 2020 at 23:00 GMT (although the transition is ongoing) despite Blackford et als assurance and in contravention of the will of the Sovereign People of Scotland and the refusal of Legislative Consent by our MSPs at Holyrood.

    Dates to watch:

    30th June 2020 – Financial services equivalence decision deadline

    1st July 2020 – Any extension to the transition period must be agreed before this date (also the Fisheries agreement deadline date) suspect radio silence from Radio Shortbreid when the Scottish Fleet is sold out!

    26th November 2020 – The trade deal must be finalised, translated and presented to the European Parliament.

    31st December – End of the transition period (unless an extension is agreed) and also Data protection adequacy ruling deadline

    Let’s see what The Scottish Government do following each of these.

    If they do fuck all then you will have been right.

    agreed with the time table, but im not sure what nicola can actually do? bleed on boris?

  307. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC (2.22) –

    You can’t begin to imagine how many of us want to watch that discussion unfold right here.

    Can I suggest we wait a wee while until a respectable number of comments have been made on the latest thread, then your 2.22 comment could be reposted to kick off that debate?

    No matter what arguments this may spark, it’ll be a blessed relief, so thanks for that.

    See ye later.


  308. schrodingers cat says:

    thanks ianb

    i will do

    l8rz mon ami

  309. CameronB Brodie says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker
    The Tories just rejected the EU’s offer of a two year extension. 🙁

  310. CameronB Brodie says:

    #bleed on boris? 🙂

  311. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “but im not sure what nicola can actually do? bleed on boris?” you say @schrodingers cat at 2:32pm

    To be honest nor do I.

    What it does do though is mean Brexit has happened and there can be no more delays.

    It means we will either have a trade deal that works for Scotland or sell Scottish producers and consumers out.

    It means folk will know if it is WTO tariffs or FTAs and the affect on their quality and cost of living.

    It means folk know the direction of travel for the UK in the short term (Insular Racist BritNat poodle of the US or not).

    It means US Private Health Care eroding NHS will be out in the open.

    Whether that allows NS to go full Plebiscite on Indy in 2021 or Legal Challenge re Colonialism to UN I don’t know.

    I’m confident the % for YES will jump when folk wake up to the points above and that only Independence can reverse them!

    Also agree with IB on your 2:22pm comment get getting reposted.

  312. shug says:

    Sovereignty is held by the people. Unfortunately the people are split and Westminster is correct to reject such a call when this is clear. It is moving in the direction of indy and with a campaign it will move further, hopefully in the correct direction.

    Why rush to another ref when Westminster has nutters like Boris and Jack, building the case. Never disturb the enemy when they are making a mistake.

    Nicola is playing it correctly just now. Let Covid pass, let Brexit crystalize then either call one or Scottish parliament election job done.

    If the election gurus and number crunchers think a Wings party will work in favour of Indy go for it. You still need to get over the 50% whatever the seats you win together.

    Even the hard line unionists I know think Nicola is doing a great job so the soft unionists are moving to.

  313. Bob Mack says:

    If you were Boris Johnson, self proclaimed Prime Minister for the whole of the UK, (though I suspect he clears everything with Cummings first),would you feel pressured into giving Scotland an Independence referendum as things stand ?

    Do you care about Scots sovereignty of the pressure of their MPs in a virtual Westminster?

    No ,neither would I considering I just block out any criticism of my preferred advisor even from my own party.

    Cameron only agreed to a referendum because he thought it would be decidedly won by a whacking majority. Boris won’t make that same mistake.

    We need more leverage than we currently have in order to force the issue.

    How is the question?. Especially if we are following the rule book set by Westminster.

  314. Clapper57 says:


    Tim Walker ( author, broadcaster, media strategist, now works for The New European…one of the prominent ‘liberal’ minded Remainers I always refer to) tweeted this about Douglas Ross resigning from his ‘Mr Junior Nobody’ post on 26 May :

    “Given the insanity cannot continue indefinitely, I think this is, in addition to being a principled and decent thing to do, a very canny move politically. Let me be the first to tip Ross as a future Tory leader”

    Bwahaha….yeh Tim the uber Remainer tips Douglas Ross as future Tory leader…the same Douglas Ross who voted for a NO DEAL BREXIT..Lol…

    ANNNNNDDDD…..the same Douglas Ross who voted AGAINST preventing the lowering of food standards….

    Indeed the same Douglas Ross who voted for Boris Johnson in the second round of the Tory leadership election.

    Sorry did I say Tim was a REMAINER….yes…but one promoting a BREXITEER…Lol….

    I mean I know Tim HATES Dominic Cummings (and Johnson) but that tweet exemplifies how utterly clueless he is about Scottish politics and it seems a tad strange he should endorse ANYONE to lead the very party that instigated, promoted and delivered the one thing Tim really really did not want to be instigated, promoted or indeed delivered….Brexit…Twilight Zone anybody ?

    Is Tim another NOT nice and very DIM Remainer hypocrite…well on that tweet……most definitely YES .

    Am I going mad at all of this duplicity from ALL sides…

    Yes….but then aren’t we all….Clowns to the left of me , Jokers to the right…and I, like Scotland, well I’m stuck in the middle…well to paraphrase…stuck in the middle with people like Tim and all the rest who think THEY know what’s best for Scotland while knowing nothing about Scottish politics, Scotland or Scots and frankly not actually caring either….and so to use yet again THE quote….”and they are doing it deliberately”…AAAARRRGGGHHHH

  315. Clapper57 says:

    @ Me @ 3.38pm

    I just had a horrible but all too feasible thought…

    Is Douglas Ross going to be THEIR new Ruth Davidson…BLol

    Pundits of propaganda will need to work overtime on promoting that message….BLol…

    They just cannot help themselves in giving undeserved kudos to undeserved ‘heroes’ and ‘heroines’….meanwhile here in the world of Scotland where reality , for a majority of Scots, still exists….we collectively shake our heads and utter yet another WTAF….

  316. Flower of Scotland says:

    I agree with @schrodinger,s cat.

    We need to discuss a new list party. Not necessarily the new Independent List party, either.

  317. Bob Mack says:

    I don’t know if there will be a Wings party as the Rev seems to indicate he is just recovering from a lot of stress.I have no idea if he has people in mind to stand under that umbrella title.

    I also don’t know anything about the ladies proposed new list party. Nothing at all.

    I know we could never even collectively fund a National party but perhaps if we resolve to back a suitable number of solid candidates for a list party ,we could undoubtedly achieve that

  318. dandydons1903 says:

    You cant trust the brits either leftside or rightside the sooner we realise this the quicker Scotland will be free of them. As for the SNP they have become a waste of time with the likes of Sturgeon and sweety wife Blackford both of whom I am have serious doubts about. A new indy party single issue only is needed asap.

  319. callmedave says:

    Test and Tracing.

    The Isle of-Wight app not getting used UK wide yet!

    NHSE app brought into service suddenly in England
    Wonder why?

    Today’s numbers

    N. Ireland……today………02…….Total….518…BBC

    UK……………… data…Total.*37645..*SUN

  320. Bob Mack says:

    As far As I can gather your costs in elections are deposit,

    Leaflets and tv ppb( £5000).We could fund this.

  321. schrodingers cat says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:
    28 May, 2020 at 2:52 pm
    “but im not sure what nicola can actually do? bleed on boris?” you say @schrodingers cat at 2:32pm

    To be honest nor do I.

    honest answer

    im also heartened by folk agreeing we should agree that a proper discussion btl should take place. im willing to launch this on the next thread if you wish, 19.00 hrs ?

    i could also ask one of the lassies, a greco american new scot in shetland to join us? dunno if she will join us?

    i hope the rev doesnt take offence 🙁

  322. liz says:

    @Breeks I’m with you all the way on this. I feel and agree with your righteous anger
    I used to believe NS was wonderful, now she is the obstacle to indy.

    She needs to go.
    This will be decided IMO with the fight for Edin Central, I have a feeling that the entire SNP machine will fall in line behind Angus Robertson and his toxic wife.

    I don’t think AS book will be the great levellar because he’s had to delay it, the trial is no longer on people’s minds and it could look like sour grapes.
    I hope I’m wrong

  323. K1 says:

    Thanks cat, sanity return btl 😉

  324. Joe says:

    So long as people are pushing Covid Boris will not agree to any constituional ‘upheaval’. Given the way the corporate world are discussing the issue youd think it would be a recurring problem. Until people stop wearing masks, social distancing and believing the hype you know that nothing will be permitted as ‘this is not the time’. Set your alarm clock. Wake up

  325. Joe says:

    If you are thinking – its nearly over, then think again. The predicted (planned?) 2nd wave will be pushed much harder, defended by the same idiots and track and trace will be pushed as the new normal. Never let a crisis go to waste.

  326. schrodingers cat says:

    hi k1

    good to c u again 🙂

  327. twathater says:

    NOT SURE WHAT NICOLA CAN DO , she can do EXACTLY what Breeks has been saying for years , TELL bozo due to the vote taken in SCOTLAND in 2016 where 62% of SCOTS DECIDED that we will REMAIN within the EU she has NO option but to take the WM govt to the ICJ to ratify that WM’s beligerence and refusal to accept an equal partners decision has caused a dissolution of the treaty and articles of union . She has numerous examples of exclusion and non co-operation as proof

    That is if she REALLY wanted our country to be independent and WM would have to produce their reasons and proof why they are superior , and before the old nugget is produced that the uk is the member state Von der Leyen has already stated she would like SCOTLAND as part of the EU so I am sure a way could be found

    SC can you point me to your proof that NS is going to use the 2021 election as a plebiscite or is it STILL wishful thinking same as 2017 and 2019 when we ALL thought that was going to be the case but AGAIN were disappointed

  328. Sarah says:

    Lads and lasses from 4.38: I’ve got an article by Lallands Peat Worrier waiting for me to have the time to type it onto here in response to these calls for legal action.

    Much as I [and no doubt LPW] would like to think there is a legal route to indy, LPW carefully explains that there is not.

    I have faith in LPW knowing what he is talking about so I accept his word.

    The other route is the one that Craig Murray tells us is the normal one i.e. that the representative body has a majority for independence and declares it to be the case. He says international law and opinion would support such a declaration if there is a clear majority. Norway had 95% or so. We would have about 50% – I don’t know what percentage of the vote the SNP and Greens got at the last Holyrood election. Is it enough?

  329. robbo says:

    So what time does orgy start then? er soz the argy bargy

  330. robbo says:

    Got the Mace,Crossbow,Sword,Flail,Halberd,Spear,Battle axe,Caltrops, and of course my wooden bow & arrow from when I was twelve!

    Na, think land of hope in glory is on telly.

    Have fun folks!

  331. John says:

    Carole Baskin?

  332. callmedave says:


    I’ve only got an old scuffed ‘YES’ pen from a 2013 stall to scratch a X in a ballot paper box with.

    We only need about 2M+ or so to do it.

  333. robbo says:


    Seems it was all just handbags at 7pm and none came to the argy. Oh well maybe FALKIRK 2mor or next week

  334. Mike d says:

    I see their social distancing is not going down to well for them in NI at funerals. All those old Republicans and sinn Fein members being given a send off by the whole street. No police going in there and issuing £1,000 fines . They know they would get their f**n arses handed to them on a plate. Eh can only terrorise the sheep.

  335. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi callmedave.

    I still have “The Spirit Of Independence” pen that Chris Law gave me on the visit to his fire engine at City Square in Dundee in 2014. I used it for my Indyref1 vote. Here’s a wee reminder of the start of his campaign…

  336. callmedave says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon

    I was on it for a look when it visited Glenrothes way back.

    Is it mothballed? I hope it’s still a runner!


  337. CameronB Brodie says:

    If Lallands Peat Worrier doubts there is a legal route to indy, then I’ve got to question his competence regarding international and human rights law.

    The Rule of Law and Equality

  338. CameronB Brodie says:

    It suggests Lallands Peat Worrier’s opinion is impaired by the narrow parochialism of British constitutional legal practice.

    Here, There, and Everywhere: Human Dignity in
    Contemporary Law and in the Transnational

  339. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’d also question his competence re. constitutional law.


  340. CameronB Brodie says:

    Lallands Peat Worrier
    Fill your boots.

    The Role of Principles and General Principles in the ‘Constitutional Processes’ of International Law

  341. rognod says:

    In the present circumstances, wouldn’t a fall off the cliff edge, 30th June 2020, be a good thing ?

  342. Ruglonian says:

    LizG @4.09am – yip, that’s precisely what I was meaning! I know that the SNP has a substantial support here, and when the majority of us retained good faith in them when Sturgeon took over then there might have been less open dissent, but it was always most definitely here!

    IanB @12.05pm – agree with your post completely, esp your reflections on why this place descended after the FM’s big announcement of nothingness on 31/1.

    I didn’t believe her IndyRef2020 proclamation at the time – pure electioneering for the GE19, pulling out the “I” word for the first time in years cos she was feart that the indy movement would have no reason to vote for her party, simply – and I think there will be a concerted effort to focus on HR21 when we ‘get back to normal’ cos that’s the SNP election winning machine’s comfortable territory.

    My thoughts remain the same on a pro-indy list party: they need to be a credible outfit that has endorsements from trusted ‘names’, they need to have a fully policy platform to differentiate from any other party and to be appealing to the average voter, they need to have a super sleek strategy and clear message on their reason for existing.
    All these factors combined would give me confidence that they would stand a decent chance of winning seats, and then I would back them with every once of my energy.
    There is no party currently that fulfils these criteria for me.

  343. Sarah says:

    @ robbo and all: the discussion is over on the new post “the Hot Potato”!!

    @ CBB: Lallands article was in the Sunday National of 15.12.19. Perhaps you can find it online and do a link so everyone else can read it? Sorry that I’m not techy enough to do it!

  344. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi callmedave.

    Last time I talked to Chris, he told me he had bought another ‘Green Goddess’, which would be ‘converted’.

    Haven’t talked to him for a wee whiley…

  345. robbo says:

    Sarah says:
    28 May, 2020 at 10:31 pm
    @ robbo and all: the discussion is over on the new post “the Hot Potato”!!

    Wit Sarah!

    Damm it .I’ve been sitting here for over 3 fecking oors waitin’.

    See them bloody southerners ,changed the terms again.

    Lol. A ken Sarah,jist huvin wee jest. Not gonna get into it yet ha ha.

  346. Sarah says:

    @ robbo: 🙂

  347. Richard Hunter says:

    In general, I would be wary about trusting the courts.

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