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The Unsackables

Posted on May 08, 2016 by

A few weeks ago we rather cruelly highlighted an old post from Kezia Dugdale’s blog in which she bitterly bemoaned the practice of candidates who’d been rejected by voters in constituency seats still being able to get into Parliament via the “back door” of the regional lists.

Angrily Dugdale raged:

Alex Salmond will try every trick in the book to get elected to the Scottish Parliament. Standing for both a constituency and a list seat this May doesn’t even register in his party’s mindset as being inappropriate.

She also had a swing at a Lib Dem MSP:

“Mike Pringle has a majority of 158. He is I think, the third most marginal MSP in Scotland. Aware of his vulnerability, Mike has put his name forward for the Liberal Democrat Lothian List which means it’s nearly impossible to get rid of him at the next election. How unfair is that?”

So, y’know, she had this coming.

Labour had 24 MSPs elected on Thursday. Just three won constituency seats, with the other 21 coming from the regional lists. Out of that 21, a whopping 17 had been rejected by voters in their respective constituencies, but were forced on Parliament anyway against the electorate’s wishes.

Readers, meet the people you pay for but can’t sack.


Ken Macintosh – rejected in Eastwood by 1,851 votes (3rd place). Still an MSP.


Alex Rowley – rejected in Cowdenbeath by 3,041 votes. Still an MSP.


Rhoda Grant – rejected in the Western Isles by 3,496 votes (26.5%). Still an MSP.


James Kelly – rejected in Rutherglen by 3,743 votes. Still an MSP.


Elaine Smith – rejected in Coatbridge by 3,779 votes. Still an MSP.


Lewis Macdonald – rejected in Aberdeen by 4,349 votes. Still an MSP.


Kezia Dugdale – rejected in Edinburgh by 5,087 votes. Still an MSP. (Irony.)


Neil Bibby – rejected in Paisley by 5,199 votes. Still an MSP.


Richard Leonard – rejected in Airdrie by 6,192 votes. Still an MSP.


Johann Lamont – rejected in Pollok by 6,482 votes. Still an MSP.


Claire Baker – rejected in Kirkcaldy by 7,395 votes. Still an MSP.


Mary Fee – rejected in Renfrewshire by 7,474 votes (3rd place). Still an MSP.


Claudia Beamish – rejected in Clydesdale by 7,826 votes (3rd place). Still an MSP.


Neil Findlay – rejected in Almond Valley by 8,393 votes. Still an MSP.


Jenny Marra – rejected in Dundee West by 8,828 votes. Still an MSP.


Mark Griffin – rejected in Cumbernauld by 9,478 votes. Still an MSP.

But our Champion Of Losers tonight, ladies and gentlemen, is:


David Stewart – rejected in Inverness by 11,786 votes (3rd place). Still an MSP.

That’s a combined losing margin of 104,399 votes. Now, readers, as it happens we don’t actually have anything against Holyrood dual candidates (although perhaps when a whopping 71% of your MSPs are people the electorate has very expressly told you it doesn’t want, that might not be the smartest strategy).

But then again, it wasn’t us who wrote the blog post about what a dreadful unfair con it was. So, Kezia, to coin a phrase: how do we actually get rid of them?

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  1. 08 06 19 10:02

    Q Anon/News – On The Daily – In Pursuit of Truth Presents – 2.17.19 – ???????????

196 to “The Unsackables”

  1. Jackie Baillie conceded defeat and after a recount won by 100 votes. How awful is that?

  2. jimnarlene says:

    It’s the one policy “Scottish” Labour will keep, apart from SNP bad.

  3. Brian McHugh says:

    You couldn’t drown a gnat in that depth of talent pool.

  4. skozra says:

    Indeed, how do we actually get rid of them ?

  5. Capella says:

    Tony Benn listed questions for democratic elections:
    who put you there
    what power have you got
    how can we get rid of you

  6. Ruby says:

    I can’t be bothered with Kezia all my focus is on Miss Trunchbull of the ‘Ruth Davidson – NO to Independence Oppostion Party’

    ‘However, the stripped down message required Davidson to neutralise the main obstacle to progress: her own party, and the toxicity of the Tories in Scotland.
    In February, after private polling revealed the leader’s popularity contrasted sharply with the dodgy reputation of her party, Davidson agreed to put her name on the ballot paper.
    Hundreds of party leaflets featured jumbo sized pictures of Davidson, but voters needed a microscope to find out she was a candidate for the Conservatives.
    Five years ago, Davidson defeated fellow MSP Murdo Fraser for the party crown by arguing against his radical plan to abolish the ‘tainted’ Tories.
    By the time of the 2016 election campaign, Fraser’s plan was effectively dusted down as Davidson threw her party under the bus in a bid to de-toxify the Conservative brand.
    Another Conservative ‘negative’ – policy – was neutralised by ensuring the manifesto was of secondary importance to standing up to the SNP.
    The promise of no income tax rises and opposition to the Named Person scheme were important parts of the Tory campaign, but subservient to the messages agreed in the autumn.
    The final handicap – the UK Government – was also addressed head-on by Davidson.
    When Chancellor George Osborne backed cuts to tax credits last year, the Scottish Tory leader criticised the plan.
    When Osborne announced changes to disability benefits this year, she again distanced herself from the proposals…albeit belatedly.
    As the campaign got underway, Davidson ensured that neither the Chancellor nor the Prime Minister came anywhere near Scotland.’ The Herald

    The Tories won seats by pretending not to be The Tories.

  7. frogesque says:

    I’ve no real objections to rejects being on the list. I do object to rejects having two bites of the cherry by being on both constituency and list. That goes for any party.

  8. Hugh Kirk says:

    Not a lot to be proud off with that bunch of deadbeats.

  9. Ruby says:

    Miss Trunchbull of the ‘Ruth Davidson NO to Independence We are not Tories Opposition Party’ is over the moon that she beat that lot into second place.

  10. David Smith says:

    After hearing Kelly on Friday on the radio, I’m embarrassed for the good people of Rutherglen. The man sounded like a charmless Ibrox pundit. Probably one of the reasons the sky above Ruglen town hall is still disfigured by a hideous dishcloth.

  11. pitchfork says:

    Shouldnt keziah be edinburgh? (Unless enough people spoiled papers by writing “no to keziah!” In Aberdeen).

  12. The Isolator says:

    Is this the first team or their second team?I’m awfy confused..nae big hitters in there then.

  13. Achnababan says:

    Is this no fantastic? Whit a bunch of losers. The winners are even worse – Baillie and Gray!! The SNP will have a field day against this lot.

    As for Ruth the Tank Commander – give her enough rope…

  14. TheWealthOfNations says:

    We get rid of them by quietly joining their CLP’s en-masse at least a year before selection begins again.

    Then you de-select them.

    Job done.

  15. Wulls says:

    We all know how unfair FPTP is.
    We also unfortunately know the shortcomings of D’hont.
    It is however hilarious that the biggest proponents of PR were the lib Dems who are now Scotland’s most irrelevant party and the Party who instigated the D’hont method have not stopped falling since.
    Karma some would say…

  16. Ruby says:

    ‘Bring it on, Ruth … Sturgeon slaps down “over-reaching” Tory leader’


    It should be fun watching ‘Miss Trunchbull of the ‘NO to Independence we are not Tories Opposition Party’ disagreeing with everything the Tory Party in London does.

  17. Cactus says:

    Greetings from Nashville, Tennesseeeeeeeeee. Lot’s of cool people in here.


    Love.. that’s all.

  18. winifred mcartney says:

    Was Kezia not an Edinburgh constituency. I think labour will be choking on their words very soon and ruthie too. She only got in by pretending not to be conservative and running a presidential election – most leaflets did not even mention party name far less their manifesto.

    I’m glad Findlay and Kelly paid a price for their disgraceful mocking behaviour in parliament especially Findlay who behaved like a hung over teenager. Pity they got in at all – labour would be better off without them.

    I still think one day the BBC will have to answer to the people of Scotland for their bias and the part they played in snp baaad rhetoric. Their constitution after all says they are fair and unbiased reporting of news. It should not be making judgements and bias in questions/audiences etc. When you consider BBC and MSM all still backed anyone but snp we still have the vast majority of votes and others will have to work with snp or be named and shamed.

  19. Bob Mack says:

    Get rid of them? You have to be kidding Rev. They are manna from heaven for the Independence movement. First Ministers question time and debates just would not be the same without the vaccuous insights provided by these fools. All in full public glare.

  20. Giving Goose says:

    I was pissed off to see that useless idiot David Stewart get in through the back door.

    Still going on past form he’d have landed himself a nice little earner somewhere else if he didn’t get a job as an MSP.

    Some develepment board or quasi charitable organisation will have provided him with a comfy seat somewhere in the Inverness area.

  21. Famous15 says:

    “The most powerful devolved parliament in the world”

    How about the USA,Canada,South Africa,India er the UK when yo have a wee look at the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. The reality is the toxic Tories with the assistance of laughable Labour are conning Scotland. No more bending down and tugging your forelock to your supposed betters.

    (Why is it i have to correct “tugging your foreskin” every time I use that expression?)

  22. Helpmaboab says:

    High time to drop the D’Hondt system surely? It was deliberately selected by the unionist parties to make an SNP majority near-impossible.

    Now, it’s also allowing the same parties to keep their apparatchiks in parliament against the electorate’s will.

    Single transferable vote, anyone?

  23. What a bunch of feckin’ failures.
    The chinless Dim but Nice Tory Hangers-on who with similar lack of effort or public support clamber aboard the £1200 a week Benefits ‘Bus are no better.

    I find great comfort in realising that only about a fifth of Scots are selfish I’m Alright Jack Middle Class Establishment lackeys/ barrel necked tattooed Sons of William Yoonies (what a hellish mix!).

    I find no solace in the realisation that the same old tired New Labour Gravy Trainers sneak in the back door, and like dung beetles will feed off the pile of manure that is what’s left of the Branch Office for another five years.

    Of course this is what the Unionists designed the Scottish ‘Assembly’ to be.

    A toothless Parish Council. Hasn’t quite worked out that way, has it?
    The sooner we regain self determination the Better. And rest assured, that day is not far off now.
    How do these chancers sleep o’ nights?

  24. Sunniva says:

    Ruby is right. The Tories got in by pretending not to be Tories. Nicola must hold Ruth to account for her deceit in pretending her party isn’t the one behind Scotland’s woes.

    She campaigned on the constitution and will be hoisted on her own petard. Devolution sucks and Nicola will be able to point that out time and time again that the Tory-imposed and unionist-imposed restraints on Scottish economy have their origins in devolution.

  25. Ken500 says:

    It is absolutely crazy.This list system is a disgrace. People who were rejected at the Polls getting a handful of votes and coming 3/4th are now MSP’s. It is just an affront to democracy.

    Voters are effectively cancelling out or annulling their1st vote by their list second vote for a Party they don’t support. If it isn’t sorted out. People will be just turned off and will not vote.

    Even if the list 2nd vote was given half the value. It should be just be abolished.

    The NE has voted overwhelmingly SNP by the barrow load and now has more Tory MSP’s than SNP.

    Even Jenny Marra. Where did she come from? She wasn’t even standing there.

    Voters are being expected to second guess their list vote to get the government they want. Voting for Parties they don’t support.

    Use by 2nd rate Pollsters and MSM to manipulate and influence the vote.

    A NE list MSP is decided by how a Tory farmer in the borders or an Edinburgh banker votes on a list. Millions of votes are case aside.

    The band of absolute useless members get seats. To ignore voters wishes and cause as much trouble as they can. It is an affront to democracy and leads to ineffective government. It is just wrong. It should have been an SNP wipe out. Not a confused pot of 2nd and 3rd rate listers. Add in the 2rd rate Pollster and MSM corruption.

    Just another Con.

    It is well seen how the Unionists stitch up Holyrood to keep it under Westminster control. It is a joke.

    The ‘Look at me’,’Look at me’ totally minority Greeners and non existent Combined Unionist Party will do everything to cause trouble, at a Parliament most of them do not back or approve and want to restrict in every way they can.

  26. Kennedy says:

    Bad Pennies.

    Or bad smell. Someone has trod on something unpleasant and dragged it into Holyrood

  27. HandandShrimp says:

    Giving Goose

    Not sure who is going to be presiding officer but I think David Stewart might be a possible. Labour have never provided one. The SNP have undertaken the task twice and the Tories and Liberals have done it once each.

    Any other guesses who might do the job?

  28. Andrew McLean says:

    I totally agree, the addition member system, which gives the democratic power to elect the legislature to political groups is fundamentally undemocratic. This system needs revising, a poster said yesterday that the SNP could have a majority again if for whatever reason a labour or Tory resigned or died. No you won’t if he is from the list, it’s not the power of the electorate to decide, a back room cabal of political managers will place someone in that seat. Even worse if he resigned his party membership before death, or was an independent then it’s an empty chair for the rest of the parliamentary term. So the region loses full representation.

    The rules need changing, how like labour to devise a system, that at its heart gives the power to decide who will represent you, to political mandarins in smoky back room deals.

    If you want to stand for election your name must be on the ballot papers, yes it will be a long list, but the Scottish Parliament, the Scottish people deserve better.

  29. The thing about Kezia that is overwhelming is that if she gave up leadership then its clear thats her political career would be over forever. So its blatantly clear that she only staying in post because of the money.

    If she was smart (which we know she isnt) she would start a procedure to disband SLAB and start an independent SLAB, then SLAB would be right back in there as a true opposing party against the SNP.

    As it stands right now SLAB being mostly elected on the regional lists and coming third = a REALLY REALLY dead party and its for the labour voters to shout loud now if they want a real party reborn from its roots to represent Scotland.

    But they would need to shout NOW. Reforming a party with its own policies and reaching out to the old members in time for the next election would be hard, not impossible but a lot of time and effort.

  30. McHaggis69 says:

    The system isn’t at fault here. It can and has been shown to have pretty fairly provided representation that reflects how everyone voted. Isn’t that what an election result should be?

    Anyway, I digress from the main point…

    The issue here is labour has put its size 12 clown shoes right back in it again by forcing on the electorate a bunch of rejects. For that alone, we should be thankful. I suspect for their next trick they will accept Ruth Davidsons invitation to work with her against the SNP. The only thing that could take them any lower is if all Labour MSP’s actively participated in a morris dancing competition while dressed in union jacks and simultaneously all sucking Cameron’s dick live for the STV news.

  31. Ken500 says:

    They are off ignorant MSM controlled by Tories are slagging off Scotland again. Telling a pack of lies.

  32. Giving Goose says:


    I’ll think you’ll find that they already do the dancing and sucking!

  33. Davy says:

    Fact, their just a bunch of losers who fought harder to be top of their list, than they did for their constituency seats.

    What I want to know is, why did the libdems do so well in the Orkney and Shetland islands ? Did no one hear what Alistair Carmichael did ?

    For fucks sake why ?

  34. Ruby says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    8 May, 2016 at 9:05 am

    Giving Goose

    Not sure who is going to be presiding officer but I think David Stewart might be a possible. Labour have never provided one. The SNP have undertaken the task twice and the Tories and Liberals have done it once each.

    Any other guesses who might do the job?

    Ruby replies
    interesting discussion here:

    “IllyMay 7, 2016 at 6:14 PM

    Something that the SNP could do, which I think would be quite sneaky of them, is to stick “whatsisname who left the SNP over anti-nuclear issues about staying in NATO after independence” (I honestly can’t remember his name) in as presiding officer.

    It’s a sop to the “Green surge” crowd, but he’s known to be a solidly pro-indy guy, so it would get a safely pro-indy presiding officer, without diluting the SNP numbers.

    And I’m not sure the Greens would want to miss the chance to get the crowing rights of having the presiding officer being one of theirs. It would make it even harder to justify them not getting the screen time compared to the libdems.

    AnonymousMay 7, 2016 at 8:48 PM

    Are you thinking of John Finnie?”

  35. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Ken500.

    Jenny Marra stood in Dundee West.

    *Joe FitzPatrick (SNP). 16,070 (57.83%)
    +Jenny Marra (Lab). 7,242 (26.06%)
    Nicola Ross (C). 2,826 (10.17%)
    Daniel Coleman (LD). 1,008 (3.63%)
    Jim McFarlane (TUSC). 642 (2.31%)
    SNP maj. 8,828 (31.77%)
    Electorate 53,830; Turnout 27,788 (51.62%)
    2011: SNP maj 6,405 (26.18%) – Turnout 24,461 (45.43%)
    Fitzpatrick (SNP) 14,089 (57.60%); McCready (Lab) 7,684
    (31.41%); Stewart (C) 1,625 (6.64%); Burns (LD) 1,063

  36. Big Jock says:

    Listening to Kezia after being anialated, you would think they had progressed. She said we have good policies, a good manifesto so will continue with this.

    But the electorate told you in no uncertain terms that they don’t like you or your policies and cronies Kezia. Why is it a good idea to continue with something so obviously failing.

    I think Labour are so thrawn and ultimately dimwitted, that they will proceed as before. There is no learning, no lessons just more bullshit.They are just running down the party until noone even knows they exist anymore.

    Clinging onto Britishness and the Union just makes them look like second rate Tories. I think there is no way back and they know it. People now see them as a party which is against Scotland.

  37. grahamlive says:

    Precisely. We are often told, if you don’t like your politicians you can always vote them out at the next election. I and the other voters in my area did precisely that with that embarrassing buffoon James Kelly. So why is he still there?

  38. galamcennalath says:

    Going to be an interesting parliament. Plenty of scope for the SNP to continue as before. They have a mandate to do exactly that.

    Labour are not in a in position nor have the skilled people to make their presence felt.

    Tories moved up the ladder by pretending not to be Tories. They now have no choice but to be Tories. They think they are going to hold the SNP to account! Nah, at every turn the Tories will be held to account in Holyrood for their actions at Westminster. The true face of the Union will be on show.

    They want to be the Union’s champions? Well, they are going to have to answer for every negative impact of their Union!

    The Liberals in 5th place are irrelevant.

    That leaves the Greens. They dream of dragging the SNP to the left. They aren’t strong enough to exert much influence. Some, perhaps. They owe their success to their stance at IndyRef1. If they back the Unionists against the SNP, they are dead. If the don’t back Indy, should a good opportunity arise, they are dead.

  39. Andrew McLean says:

    You are confusing party affiliation with democratic accountability. The system is imposed from the top down, whereas in a democracy the electorate should have full control over who’s representing them in parliament, the system is for the benefit of political parties. And yes someone standing for election usually is saying I agree with the aims of that particular party, but 1 second after the election he can do what ever he pleases resign from say the Labour Party and vote for the Torys.
    You elect the man, worse as the addition members system is you elect the party, and as a party activist said to me recently ” I don’t always agree with everything in the SNP policy,” .

  40. Richardinho says:

    The most egregious example there is that of James Kelly. He made a complete embarrassment of himself during the last parliament and voters really should have had the opportunity to get rid of him.

  41. Breeks says:

    I feel sorry for Unionists. (I don’t really). Just look at the choice you’ve got to represent your beliefs.
    Third place rejects without an idea between them, liars and lightweights who’s policy changes with the seasons, and right wing isolationists who cannot function with a consensus unless they own it, and all of them requiring a thoroughly rotten and decrepit news monopoly to hold the goons together and maintain the illusion we live in a credible democracy.

    How low must morale be in the Unionist camp be that having panzer-shreik BBC Davidson running your show is pushed so hard as good news? Just look at your alternatives. Dugdale’s Dud Allstars, Rennies smoke and mirror polishers, or the Ukip parachutists with the strange aversion to slug pellets. Ruthie being the best of a bad lot just doesn’t even begin to do the truth justice. Tory resurgence? Or a measure of how dismally bleak your choices are in Unionland? Any colour you like so long as its grey.

    Smile, be happy and confident people. It’s absolutely killing them because its a real and genuine smile. They desperately depend on the grubby lowlife media to hold them up and keep us down. I wouldn’d trade my smile for Ruthie’s, no sir, not for a moment.

  42. Onwards says:

    @Joseph. It seems to me as if SLAB really are on the slab in much of Scotland.

    They know they have to become a real Scottish party but don’t have it in them to do that.

    Good news for the SNP is they have some fresh blood and a few very credible new younger candidates.
    Labour is stuck with the same old duds with makes them even harder to resuscitate.

  43. Grouse Beater says:

    The voting system in Scotland is designed to allow dunces a chance to show they are as perceived, constitutionally useless, mediocre who bedevil the democratic process.

  44. Macart says:

    Ayup, Karma.

    Kezia really should have seen that one coming. 🙂

  45. Andrew McLean says:

    Because it’s a liberal stronghold, and the candidate from what I heard is a well liked strong individual. Popular and hard work working in his community, I also think the victim card was played, along with the narrative from the Torys about holding the SNP to account, because everyone knew the SNP was going to win!!!

  46. Almannysbunnet says:

    Oh the irony. Claire Baker, rejected by 7,395 votes is their “democracy spokeswoman”. This morning she is calling for Scottish parliament reforms “As a start, the presiding officer and the majority of committee convenerships should not come from the governing party.” Ruthie, who put the Con in conservatives, agrees with her, shock horror.
    SNP’s reply: “The shape of Holyrood’s committees is determined by the strength of parties in the parliament – again in line with democratic principles.

    “And it isn’t for any single MSP or party – certainly not those who lost the election by a country mile – to try and dictate terms.

  47. Valerie says:

    The Rev is in excellent form, as always. Spotting the opportunities to keep us well informed.

    Just as we laugh and point at the nuances of a Cairnstoon, we have to have a wee laugh at the complete irrelevance of the Stoneybridge Toon Cooncil.

    For those that missed it, Irvine Welsh had his tweet broadcast.

    Labour have worked relentlessly to make themselves irrelevant.

    Don’t rain on their parade/circus.

  48. Big Jock says:

    James Kelly is as thick as shit on the neck of a bottle. Sounds like a Donkey on mogadon. If he is Labour’s best then God help them.

  49. Swiss perspective says:

    Seriously, the best way forward for the Labour Party would beto sack poor Kezie and replace her with Nobody. I think a cardboard prop would do better than someone proactively destroying the party from within.

    A good conspiracy theory would be that in reality she is an self-sacrificing SNP mole.

  50. Valerie says:



    I claim my prize!

    I said yesterday, watch them climb back into bed.

  51. Mark Sorsa-Leslie says:

    It’s really simple. When you stand for the Scottish Parliament, you EITHER stand for a constituency OR stand on the list. A candidate should not be able to stand on both.

  52. Ken500 says:

    Davidson declares herself ‘a John Major Tory’ Is that wise. He lost. Probably sums it up. It’s the cheek of them. Many of them standing for a Parliament they don’t support. They just want to disrupt. A bunch of charlatans.

  53. Kelvin D'Arcy-Burt says:

    Would be interesting to have the same analysis for the other parties…

  54. Effijy says:

    I would recommend that the SNP put forward legislation to
    revisit the current electoral set up as it does remove the
    electorate’s right to reject any politician.

    The First Minister of course should quote Dipity Dug word for ward and propose that we agree 100% with her and empathise with how disturbed she must be that she and the vast majority of her MSPs are in jobs that the electorate rejected them from.

    Will she agree to back legislation to resolve this undemocratic and unjust form of representation, as per her original recommendations??????

    The Sunday Mail, not my own, has a front page headline of ” Nice Try Nicola, but still 2 short of a majority”.
    Of course this rancid Labour Flag waver is accurate, but it them prints a Picture of Dipity Dug with Specs on, in hope that it might make her look intelligent, or perhaps people might not recognise her as the incompetent.

    It was she who was Deputy Leader of Labour’s North British Accounting Unit when they lost 40 of 41 Westminster seats, and of course is now the Leader who took them to their worst election result in 100 years.

    The good news is that she is staring afresh, for the 3rd time, in building new Labour, with sand and soft soap.
    Not only will that same leader and party continue in a downward trajectory, but the lying rag of a newspaper will
    also continue to race toward oblivion.
    Do the same thing and get the same results.

    Fraser Nelson, the Nelson with 2 Blind eyes, is on Marr TV
    to proclaim the wonders of Wee Ruth Krankie.
    He seems to consider that she doubled the Scottish Tory vote, but failed to state that her campaign leaflets didn’t name her party as they are such a toxic brand.
    Nor does he appreciate that it is not the Tory policies of exaggerated austerity, robbing Scotland, removal of free prescriptions and university education, etc, that increased their votes, but bitter unionists from all parties who put Westminster before Scotland in voting Ruthie.

    The giant Fib Dem party in Scotland seem very happy that they will shape Scotland whilst being the 5th Largest Party in country?

    I Suppose it makes sense to a party that sees lying and wonton waste of public funds as a normal part of daily politics.

  55. Tam Jardine says:

    Kezia was daft to make those arguments in her blog. This is the list system. The whole point is that those people who were rejected by the electorate in individual constituencies were endorsed by the electorate in the regional list albeit not directly and in a list election where basically the winning party has its vote annulled.

    If there is a better system then someone should put it forward. Is it more democratic for faceless list candidates to be elected who have not even had a proper chance to be rejected by the electorate?

    The system is imperfect but it does lead to a far more proportional parliament.

    From slab’s point of view they would argue the list keeps their most experienced team of parliamentary performers (!) in place but obviously for anyone outside slab their entire parliamentary party is full of has-beens and rejects who are now skulking about taking in a great wage for nothing. When they start bumming themselves up about yet another relaunch/listening exercise it just makes them look ridiculous.

    Slab would have been so much better if they had a fresh intake who could genuinely take the party in a new direction. They are now irrelevant until they deal with the constitutional question and there are 2 legitimate answers to that question and one nonsense answer (devomax/home rule/federalism).

    How can these old hands change their entire position?

    Splitting into an autonomous party would be a start but then how could they make an argument for home rule without being able to guarantee support from their only power now, the rLab (rest of labour party)?

    Anyway- they are largely irrelevant and will simply go the way of the lib dems up here. They are the walking dead of Scottish politics.

    Where we need to focus is putting the new tory intake, particularly the constituency msps under the microscope as the press will certainly be preparing dossiers on the pro-indy MSPs.

    And taking on the BBC. How to take on the BBC? That will need some thought and maybe some work off-grid. Make no mistake- we will never have a democratic election or referendum while the BBC exists in its current form.

  56. Richardinho says:

    Intrigued by the snippet on the Twitter feed of Brian ‘soothsayer’ Wilson saying that he’s happy about the result. Would love to see more of this. Possible a blog post subject?

  57. schrodingers cat says:

    the ruk now believe the snp is on a down slide, ruth “spoilt bastard” davidson won the election…. the threat of the uk splitting if there is an out vote in the eu ref just got laid to rest
    bring it on
    the threat of the snp controlling miliband was what encouraged the ruk to vote tory, now the threat of indyref2 and the fox of the snp has been shot by the tank commander, the ruk are now free to vote out
    the snp should run a low profile eu campaign. no interviews etc.

  58. O/T Grewat stuff from Bateman

    “I’ve just realised after 24 hours of media consumption that Ruth Davidson and the Tories won the election. I got my sums all wrong. I thought 63 was more than 31 and that if you got fewer seats you actually lost the election. Nowadays it doesn’t work that way. If you’re really popular with the media and fit the newspaper proprietor’s agenda, you get to win regardless. Must try to keep up.

    Not only that but judging from some shouty comments from Ruth Davidson, she’s now running the country and demanding a promise not to stage a referendum. That’s a referendum on independence, of course. There’s nothing wrong with having one on EU membership against most people’s wishes or having one on not taking in destitute orphans who are foreign or anything else the Tories might fancy.”

  59. O/T Great stuff from Bateman

    I’ve just realised after 24 hours of media consumption that Ruth Davidson and the Tories won the election. I got my sums all wrong. I thought 63 was more than 31 and that if you got fewer seats you actually lost the election. Nowadays it doesn’t work that way. If you’re really popular with the media and fit the newspaper proprietor’s agenda, you get to win regardless. Must try to keep up.

    Not only that but judging from some shouty comments from Ruth Davidson, she’s now running the country and demanding a promise not to stage a referendum. That’s a referendum on independence, of course. There’s nothing wrong with having one on EU membership against most people’s wishes or having one on not taking in destitute orphans who are foreign or anything else the Tories might fancy.

  60. Big Jock says:

    The media will not change we just have to let them self destruct.

  61. Almannysbunnet says:

    Here’s a suggestion for Claire Baker who is calling for Holyrood reforms. What about you can only put yourself forward for a committee chair if you won a constituency seat. That would cut labour’s hopefuls from 24 to 3. Nah that sounds too democratic.

  62. Andrew McLean says:

    James Kelly’s name has come up here today, he is an exemplar for Labour Party intelligence, in any other walk of life he would be kept as far away from the public as possible, he is an arrogant, ignoramus, whose sence of entitlement is as disturbing as his party’s stupidity in promoting him.
    Every time I hear him speak I wonder what he has on labour, it must be something spectacular, for them to select him, no talent, no intelligence, no decorum, no political acumen, a knuckle dragging, brain addled cretinous creature, even for a political party well known for promoting ineptitude, he is a shining example. His political home is drunk in a old mans pub, after an afternoon shouting and singing ever song in the bigoted football handbook.

  63. schrodingers cat says:

    there is no need for indyref2…..gove

  64. Jackie Baillie, who as @Donald Anderson points out won by 109 votes, had of course taken out an insurance policy of being first on Labour’s WoS list, so was either way going to be back in Holyrood. Donald, to answer your question – bloody awful.

  65. Jim says:

    frogesque says:
    8 May, 2016 at 8:26 am

    I’ve no real objections to rejects being on the list. I do object to rejects having two bites of the cherry by being on both constituency and list. That goes for any party.
    I agree; Anas Sarwar for example lost his seat at the general election but was on the regional list, I have no problem with that.

    On the other hand there is no way in hell that an MSP that has just been rejected by voters, should walk away smiling as Kezia Dugdale did, safe in the knowledge that they are going to be elected anyway.

    It is an utter sham and Kezia Dugdale should have the courage of her own convictions and resign as leader.

  66. ronnie anderson says:

    I see some of you,s are coming round to objecting to the D ‘Hoytytoyt system. I’ve been sounding out some people for a couple of weeks on getting a Public Petition to have the D’Hoydt system changed FPTP/STV ( whatever system) & another Public Petition in Westminster ( same time if possible) & lets see the Unionists party’s Defend / Reject the Electorial system in Scotland either way we the Voting Public WIN.

    Thanks Robert Graham I did know the Electorial Commission is not Devolved.

  67. Tinto Chiel says:

    Rev, you are spoiling us with your Cavalcade of Dunces.

    If brain waves generated light, these guys would be in perpetual darkness.

    BTW, has the Butcher’s Apron not been removed from Ru’glen Town Hall yet? No one got a pair of scissors?

    And is there honey still for tea?

  68. schrodingers cat says:

    the reason this list of rogues is so long is a failure of all sides of the yes movement to agree even the simplest stratagy to remove them.

    people are happier that these labour creeps got elected and that rise and tommy sheridan got shelved

    you reap what sow, suck it up

  69. Ken500 says:

    It was John Major who abolished rates for landowning estates.

    When land was needed for an essential road in the NE. It was Greens who fought it tooth and nail against it funded by Landowners. Wasting £Millions of taxpayers money.

    Brian Wilson will be happy the Tories won more seats than Labour. Millions 1st votes were discarded for second choice list votes.

  70. Cutommy says:

    They were completely irrelevant in the last parliament and will continue to be useless. No chance then of the much wished for recovery of Labour.

  71. Big Jock says:

    We have nothing to worry about folks. What we have witnessed is a a realignment of Scottish politics.

    Soft right wing unionists have moved to Tory. They will stay there. Labour are finished. So that leaves the SNP in power forever more. They will always have that 45% support as the SNP is the only game in town. The SNP have not reached a high tide. We will start taking those 20% of Labour supporters to us.

    In fact the Tories have reached a high tide. They may never get as high as this again. It is a one party state until independence because Labour created this. The Scots who are not Tories have nowhere else to go in terms of which government they want.

  72. Richardinho says:

    I’m broadly happy with the current system of electing MSPs. The make up of the parliament after all does seem to roughly reflect the percentages of how people voted. The only exception is that I agree that candidates who stand in the constituencies shouldn’t be allowed to also stand on the list. The whole reason for having this system rather than just a straight proportional list system is so that we retain something of the best part of FPTP which is that voters can have local representatives. But allowing candidates to stand in constituencies AND on the list makes a mockery of this because it means that voters who don’t like their local M.S.P can’t actually get rid of them.

  73. heraldnomore says:

    Having been at the count in EK I witnessed Kelly and his cohorts first hand; had the privilege of being yards from his public humiliation as the returning officer announced the numbers.

    This of course was no surprise to anyone in the hall, as the outcome was clear from the first sampling of the PVs, and as the night wore on we watched as the red-rosette one stumbled around the hall, his face outshining his rosette, his minions head down in corners.

    It was a glorious count in EK, as four bonnie lassies romped home, and the cheers rang out, as the red rosettes fled for home. Rejoice Scotland.


  74. Richardinho says:

    I’m not sure what if any public office Brian Wilson still holds, but nonetheless you’d think that someone in the Labour party would have a word with him. He has been a prominent member of the Labour party for several decades, presumably a driving force in their strategy, during which time Labour have gone from being the dominant party in Scotland to being almost wiped out-and then he says that he’s happy about that!

    Is he an SNP agent by any chance?

  75. Grouse Beater says:

    Rihardinho: “Allowing candidates to stand in constituencies AND on the list makes a mockery of this because it means that voters who don’t like their local M.S.P can’t actually get rid of them.”

    The system is saying, if you want to be an MP you’re in!

  76. HandandShrimp says:

    I liked Kevin McKenna’s comment that if one were to believe some of the front pages Ruth won the Holyrood election and is now on her way to take on Trump in the Republican nomination battle.

    The fall out from these elections has been a trifle odd but the dust will settle quickly as it sinks in that is business as usual and that Ruth’s say does not run far.

    The panel on radio shortbread, including the Tory Peter Duncan all agreed that independence is not off the agenda and all eyes must now turn to the EU referendum.

  77. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I see Buffalo Girl is on with oor Andra Neil this morning.

    Will he ask her some tough questions, such as: “Why did you do all you could to keep the word Conservative off your election literature, or, at best put it in icroscopic print”?

    Or, will be roll over and allow her to tickle his tummy?

  78. Andrew McLean says:

    Yes I agree in principle but the list should be published on the ballot ok it makes for a long ballot paper but this system is a fudge.
    Herald no more,
    But he isn’t no more, that’s the problem, imagine your boss sacking you, but you think you can continue to work, that’s the system we have.

  79. Legerwood says:

    Perhaps it would be better if the system was changed slightly so that any candidate standing in the constituency contest cannot be higher than say 4th on their party’s regional list.

    How many of those Labour MSPs listed above and so comprehensively rejected by the electorate would have been returned if that rule had been in place?

    Candidates rejected by the voters should not then get in via the list system. This makes a nonsense of one of the basic tenets of democracy which is that the electorate can vote politicians out of office and in so doing vote to select the candidates they want to represent them.

    The system as currently designed makes this impossible as the Labour examples demonstrate.

    Labour are never going to improve their position when all they have to draw on is an ever decreasing band of retreads.

  80. Joemcg says:

    Wonder what the calibre is of Tory list candidates.Maybe not as bad as this bunch of gravy trainers. Bet there is some doozies in that mob!

  81. schrodingers cat says:

    terry kelly on scots go pop

    those Green members and sympathisers who effectively authored this suboptimal election result by duping people…..

    yer an erse kelly, it was the bile and dissention on your blog which has damaged the yes campaign and allowed all of these labour creeps in.

  82. Papko says:

    Ken500 says:
    8 May, 2016 at 9:53 am
    Davidson declares herself ‘a John Major Tory’ Is that wise. He lost. Probably sums it up.

    John Major won the 1992 election (after 13 years of Tory rule )
    752k Scots voted Tory in 1992 , compared to 659k who voted SNP on a 711% turnout

    ” Many of them standing for a Parliament they don’t support. They just want to disrupt. A bunch of charlatans.”

    What do the SNP stand in General elections for then ? they are standing for a Parliament they don’t support .

  83. JLT says:

    You have to laugh. Anyone who is politically aware can raise this issue again and again for fun with just about every Labour MSP in Holyrood.

    As we have all said many a time, when is Kezia going to learn that she has to stop her mouth engaging before her brain.

    In many ways, it was actually Kexia herself that destroyed the Scottish Labour Party in this election. If she didn’t get things wrong, it was her public flip-flopping stance over issues such as trident, tax and independence that lost SLAB a fair number of votes.

    And I can see her doing the exact same over the next few months as she publicly backs Ruthie over key issues, thus angering and alienating even more of her own party’s supporters.

  84. LabRat says:

    D’Hondt really is our version of HoL. MSPs soundly rejected at ballot box stick two fingers up to the electorate, get handed a seat, given an expenses account and merrily go on with business as usual, making laws for people they have no mandate to respresent. The cynical two bites at the same cherry shouldn’t be allowed. There should be no overlap. They should have to choose between constituency or list and that’s it.

  85. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Speaking of rejects, Michelle Mone has outdone herself by picking up a Person of Restricted Growth in Vietnam and posing with him for photos, thinking he was a ‘flower-boy’. Unfortunately he was a 46-year old man whose wife loudly claimed ownership and instructed Mone to put him down immediately.

  86. Glamaig says:

    I don’t like this particular aspect of d’Hondt but in the words of Her Maj, ‘think very carefully’ before you agitate against it. Its proportional. It would be better if we could choose individuals on the list, but then the voting papers would be massive – theyre already big enough.

    Swinney’s majority was only 3336, imagine if he had lost his seat and wasnt on the list.

    FPTP? after decades of pissing in the wind, voting SNP in the face of a Labour majority of 20,000 while watching Scotland being destroyed by Thatcher – no thanks.

    STV? never – dont even go there.

    D’hondt is a godsend – its what woke Scotland up to democracy. The first time my vote EVER counted for anything was at the first Holyrood elections in 1999. I’ll bet the Establishment are regretting introducing it – they’d be fcuked if they introduced it in England.

    Watch the Establishment now pushing to change the Holyrood system.

  87. Ken500 says:

    It was folk who advocated SNP/Independence voters giving there second vote to another Party. That made it happen. They are the agent provocateurs who made it happen. Not the SNP/Independence supporters and Rev Stu who warned against it. That was the correct strategy.

    ‘Reap what you sow’. Getting Willie Rennie back with a load of Greens and Tories who came 3rd and 4th.

    It ‘reflects voters choice’. It reflects voters giving a (2) list vote to a Party they do not support trying to second guess a crazy system. If they are ignorant enough. While thousands of 1st votes are disregarded. For reasons outwith the Election result. It was devised to keep Unionist/Westminster dominate.

  88. Ken500 says:

    SNP stand in a General Election because they have to unless Scotland is disenfranchised even further. In a Parliament where they are outvoted 10 to 1. Every policy the majority in Scotland support including 70% FFA . The VOW – broken promises which influenced the result.

    There was no Holyrood Gov in 1992. The point is. Not comparing like with like? While Westminster were secretly and illegally taking Scotland Oil revenues, Keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act.

    John Major then lost a GE. Described Tories as ‘Bastards’ He should know.

  89. John says:

    One very positive thing that has come out of this election is that Jackie Baillie no longer has the Faslane workers on her side , this was very nearly an SNP victory in Dumbarton, only 109 votes in it and I think even that is questionable ! . Next time she will be gone !. With a bit of luck we could be one our way to saying goodbye to Trident but I won’t hold my breath !

  90. Ken500 says:

    Major’s Affair. Tory values

  91. Dr Jim says:

    If you don’t win an outright seat I don’t think you should hold the title of MSP you should be unelected


    Kezia Dugdale would have to be a member of her own staff responsible to but ordered around by herself and would have to get her own tea and sticky bun and then deliver it to herself and ask herself permission to have a break to munch it

    On a serious note Kim Jong Ruth’s already starting to go mentally irregular in the head she actually believes the newspapers and thinks she’s won
    So much so she’s bashing out orders left right and centre on how the country’s going to look under her “LOSERSHIP”
    Her plan for the new alliance with the now disgraced remnants of the Region 9 Party(Labour) have been thwarted by Kezia and her assistant Kezia saying NAW

    Second place candidate Ruth says she’ll bring forward a Bill, I don’t know what his second name is but I firmly believe by the end of next week men in white coats will be dragging her kicking and screaming “I’m the winner I’m in charge” from the chamber at Holyrood with the words of Nicola Sturgeon echoing in her ears “Oh dear I do hope where they take her is comfy at least she’ll get the best treatment available our health minister Shona Robison has seen to that with virtually no waiting time so that’s good”

    A quick word on Fraser Nelson…..Dick!

  92. Daisy says:

    Shocking, this just shows to the extent that Scotland has rejected Labour.
    I wonder if Sturgeon will put electoral reform on the table?

    My take on the Scottish Parliament Elections –

    May 2016: A Historic SNP Victory

  93. Capella says:

    Unionists employ many tricks to manipulate the public but they are not entirely successful. Ruth Davidson won in Edinburgh Central by only 610 votes. She would have lost if the Green candidate hadn’t stood.

    The Green candidate was on the list and would have got in that way, whereas she had absolutely no chance of winning the constituency. I put that down to Green total lack of strategic thinking. But it is the LAST place where they should have fielded a candidate. The Greens really are pretty green IMO.

    But 610 votes is a very shakey majority. How many votes would Alison Dickie have gained if she had enjoyed the blanket TV coverage of Ruth Davidson?

  94. Richardinho says:

    I agree with the person above who says that we have a realignment in Scottish politics where it will be the SNP versus the Tories and the Labour party is effectively irrelevant. In this scenario the SNP will be dominant for a long time to come.

    It’s not that there aren’t a large amount of conservative people in Scotland, but the Tories are a betrayal of conservative values by being entirely beholden to the English Conservative party. This is why the only people who will vote for them are actual English Conservatives living in Scotland, deluded sectarian types, and weirdos with a grudge against their own people.

  95. Ken500 says:

    Swinney won. He would have won FPTP. So would more SNP MSP’s. It would have been a wipe out. Like Westminster.

    The (2) vote has the same value as the first vote. That isn’t right. It annuls a 1st vote. Thousands of 1st votes which should be the most important go unrepresented.

  96. ronnie anderson says:

    I see some people defending the D’Hoydt system & list seats. Question Who is the Holyrood Parliament supposed to represent Scottish People or Political Party’s & as far as I,me aware we the People have no choise in list selection, Democratic is it.???

  97. schrodingers cat says:

    it was folk who advocated SNP/Independence voters giving there second vote to another Party. That made it happen.

    750,000 snp votes is why there are so many unionists msps

    They are the agent provocateurs who made it happen. Not the SNP/Independence supporters

    who the fuck are you ken? i was pounding the pavement for the snp when you still thought the spice girls were pretty cool. agent provocateurs….fucking arse hole

    ‘Reap what you sow’. Getting Willie Rennie back with a load of Greens and Tories who came 3rd and 4th.
    except 750000 snp voters didnt get snp msps, they got the list stu posted in this article

    It ‘reflects voters choice’. It reflects voters giving a (2) list vote to a Party they do not support trying to second guess a crazy system. If they are ignorant enough.

    it isnt a crazy system, you are just too stupid to understand it.

    While thousands of 1st votes are disregarded. For reasons outwith the Election result.


  98. Stewart fae stoney says:

    Alex Johnstone that grossly overweight tory has been doing that for as far back as I can remember, he has never been voted in by the electorate in any election whether it for Hollyrood or Westminster, lost every one but he remains a MSP and contributes very little except writing to papers spouting tunnel visioned unionist crap

  99. Juteman says:

    Ian Smarts take on the election seems to ne that Kez was an SNP plant! Feckin hilarious.

  100. jt says:

    Voting in elections in Australia is compulsory. You receive a hefty fine (if your name is on the electoral roll and) if you don’t vote.

    The preferential voting system used in Australia for the Australian House of Representatives and for most Australian State elections is outlined under “Instant-runoff voting” on Wikipedia:

    “Instant-runoff voting (IRV), also known as the alternative vote (AV), transferable vote, (single-seat) ranked choice voting (RCV), or preferential voting, is a voting system used to elect a candidate in a single member constituency from a field of more than two candidates. It is a preferential voting system in which voters rank candidates in an order of preference, rather than voting for a single candidate. Ballots are initially distributed based on each elector’s first preference. If a candidate secures more than half of the votes cast, that candidate wins. Otherwise, the candidate with the least number of votes is eliminated, and that candidate’s ballots are reassigned to the remaining candidates in accordance with the preference order. The ballots are then recounted to see if a candidate has now received a majority. This process continues until one candidate wins by obtaining more than half the votes.”

    In effect, you vote for candidates in order of your preference, knowing that if your first preference is eliminated, your vote will be transferred to your second preference, and so on, until one candidate achieves more than 50% of the vote.

    Political parties hand out ‘How to Vote’ cards which state their preferred order for your preferences (if you are voting for them first), however citizens are completely free to choose their own order.

    This makes it possible to lodge a protest vote to indicate your support for a minor party, without that vote being ‘wasted’. It also makes it possible to vote for the ‘Sun-ripened Warm Tomato’ Party and the ‘Party Party Party’ Party for the purpose of entertainment in an otherwise dull local election without destroying your ultimate vote/voice.

    Compulsory preferential voting is a great thing.

  101. Brian Powell says:

    Is this the only country in the world where politicians who lose catastrophically can legitimately be reinstated?

  102. Kenny says:

    Maybe the road to indy is the Catalan way of having two broad shoulders? Two parties to cover the whole left to centre-right divide? Which is maybe 75% of Scottish politics?

    Wee Nicola needs to have a private word with Harvie (or maybe Finnie and Wightman): “Together, we will take Scotland to independence. We will move to the right to mop up that area and leave the left for you to hoover up all the RISE + Solidarity types.”

    It is hard for one party to be the sole “atlas” carrying the whole indy movement (although the SNP has outdone itself by being so to this day). Maybe the movement of the Greens into fourth place is a very good thing? Get a Green PO at Holyrood to further increase their political presence…

    Let us “grow our greens” (!) for them to appear as a sane left-wing party who can provide responsible parliamentary behaviour (they can also attract “Tories who recycle”). And show the centre-right (whom we MUST win to our cause) that Swinney, Nicola and Co provide GOOD SOLID GOVERNMENT, balancing budgets and growing the economy….. unlike the towel-folder and the beastie-mounter*.

    [* medieval scenes of the apocalypse always showed a woman riding a beast]

  103. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Juteman If Kezia,s ah plant am ready tae watter her, fffek hud oan the noo ma zips stuck.

  104. One_Scot says:

    I have said this before, but the simple fact of the matter is, the SNP can only ever fail after Scotland becomes Independent.

    The question is now, not will Scotland become Independent, but when will Scotland become Independent?

    It is only a matter of time, and the Yoons know this.

  105. schrodingers cat says:

    the threat of the snp controlling miliband was what encouraged the ruk to vote tory, now the threat of indyref2 and the fox of the snp has been shot by the tank commander, the ruk are now free to vote out

    brillo just said the same

  106. Martin says:

    I actually have a huge problem with this. A friend of mine was standing on the list for Labour (I know, misguided). He’d have been a cracking MSP and very hardworking. He’s also had a real job in engineering so would bring some perspective. Unfortunately the parachuting in of Westminster failures and the backup of list seats for constituency candidates effectively shot his chances before a vote was cast. I’m not necessarily bemoaning the lack if SLab MSPs of course, but their talent pool is so poor because if the jobs for the boys attitude, and this was a chance to get a decent guy who still has some decent values in. And they threw it away to keep the scumbag Anas Sarwar and his crooked pals in the public purse.

    That is why they are never going to recover. Stubborn inability to alter course.

  107. schrodingers cat says:

    many of those who argued for snp 1&2 are those who now are complaining about the electoral system which created this result.

    the time to analyse the system was before the election

  108. Patrick Roden says:

    A very little known fact: John Major was in a ‘business meeting’ with George Bush Senior and members of the Bin Laden family, in America, on the day of 9/11.

    A no fly zone for non American military aircraft was put in place, except for one flight, One commercial aircraft took off and spirited the Bin Ladens out.

    John Major was the PM when the UK first attacked Iraq, and like Blair he seems to have been handsomely rewarded for his loyalty to the ‘good ole US of A’

    Great in’ it!

  109. Robert Louis says:

    I am personally pleased to see those people back again. They are a truly untalented bunch of people with zero vision for Scotland, and zero perception of how much Scotland has changed.

    Whilst they remain, Labour is quite literally on the road to nowhere.

    In many ways, things will be easier for the FM, now that Dugdale and the Labour party are relegated to obscurity. Tackling the odious Ruth Davidson of the London Tory party, with her obviously fake grin, will be a proverbial stroll in the park.

    Reading the English commentariate, makes you realise just how little they understand of the dynamics of the Scottish Parliament. In many ways, and to coin a phrase that will be forced on Scotland this summer, the English commentariate, little Englanders and unionista ‘think it’s all over’, but in reality the ganme has just moved up a gear.

    Progressive nationalist, versus Unionist London Tories. For those supporting the restoration of Scottish independence, it truly is the perfect storm. Come the next referendum, the unionist Tories won’t have Labour to fight their battle for them – something they have so far failed to realise.

    Anyway, the sun is coming out, and I’m away to Little England (aka Stockbridge, Edinburgh).

  110. Ken500 says:

    Catalonia is not voting for Independence. EU residents in Catalonia/Spain do not have a vote in Regional/National elections. Not equal rights. Is that Democratic.

    People were told vote SNP/Independence 1st and 2nd votes for higher majority.

    It was the people who believed fraudulent Pollsters and MSM who ignored the advice are now chuntering on about a strategy. That was the Strategy. Unfortunately some voters still chose ignorance.

    in the GE SNP contest 60 seats not 660 seats.

  111. Proud Cybernat says:

    “I won’t be the only face from a new generation leading Scottish Labour. I want to bring new expertise, new experience and new energy to the Labour Party in Scotland… I want to challenge the cosy consensus in Scottish politics.” – Kezia Dugdale, The Scotsman, 22/8/2015

    “New genertaion”. That worked out well then, Kez, didn’t it?

  112. schrodingers cat says:

    their talent pool is so poor because if the jobs for the boys attitude,

    in a meritocracy, the cream rises to the top
    in slab….sh1t floats

  113. MacRocker says:

    Been lurking on here for a while and decided to post in regards to the election result.

    I’ve been reading the comments on this site and others through out the weekend deciding what to make of the result.

    There isn’t much that I can say that hasn’t already been said but one point does bring to mind. For too long the argument has been that independence is about Scotland’s interests not being served properly by Westminster and this getting twisted by our opponents that we are blaming everything on the English. Now that the Blue Tories are the main opposition in Holyrood, the argument has now changed to the Scotlands interests not being served by the Tories in Holyrood.

    This is a powerful argument because the Blue Tories lied to get elected by dropping every mention of their party in the election and campaigned on the constitution which the SNP never mentioned in their manifesto. The Holyrood Tories and their actions are a physical focus that people can see and understand much better than the workings of an institution hundreds of miles away.

    The first constitutional question was about whether Scotland should be an independent country. The debate will now focus on how is best to govern Scotland. This will be seen in the next five years now that the face of unionism isn’t the Red Tories and we get to see the real face of the union in the shape of Ruth Davidson and co.

    The Blue Tories can’t kid on they are a Scottish party and separate from the UK one. They are the Scottish representatives of Cameron, Obsorne and co. Over the next five years, they will have to defend these policies and the effect they are having on ordinary Scots.

    As mentioned by others, now that Labour are effectively sidelined, this is a straight contest between the SNP and the Blue Tories. Scots in favour of the union will really need to look at themselves and ask if their values are the same as those of the Ruth Davidson party and their aspirations can truly be met by that party?

    As they saying goes, there are interesting times ahead 🙂

  114. Almannysbunnet says:

    @Capella I put that down to Green total lack of strategic thinking.

    Or maybe they are crafty wee buggers. By denying an SNP win in Edinburgh central it strengthened their hand. I suspect it was deliberate. In their mind, if nowhere else, they now hold the balance of power.

  115. tiderium says:

    Anas Sarwar, Comprehensively told by the electorate to go and do one in the General Election, gets back into politics via the list. That is hardly fair on the good people of Glasgow.

    “You didn’t want him, but we do, so your having him anyway, tough luck Scotland” seems to be the thinking of SLAB

  116. Glamaig says:

    O/T if there is a Brexit one solution might be for Scotland to remain in the EU but rUK to leave. The precedent is there for only one part of a sovereign state to be in the EU – i.e. Greenland and Denmark.

    Scotland gets UK’s seat at the table. EU welcome us with open arms – no accession required, we are already members. We get control of all our own EU subsidies. Westminster and the Union of Parliaments starts to look increasingly pointless. All this will take years to play out. Then and not before, we go for Indyref 2.

    Having said all that, bookies odds are still 1/3 remain. I personally will be doing nothing to campaign for Remain – let Cameron do that – I refuse to do his work! The more resources Remain puts into Scotland, the less they have for rUK.

  117. DerekM says:

    Just how terrified are the yoons about us having another indy ref could it be they know something we dont like oh say that we never lost the first one..

    As for the deadbeats well take a look Scotland this is your parlaiment its a bloody joke,scam,deceit and a lie.

    Let the yoons have their little moment giving themselves a pat on the back at getting one over us,well they think they have but then like all their plans its based on us not exisisting lol zoomers.

    No hiding place now blue tories we have unfinished business!

  118. Almannysbunnet says:

    Just watched Ruthie on daily politics. A couple of mildly tough questions from A Neil and she is exposed. He asked why there was no mention of “conservative” on any of her election bumph and he suggested that the tories were still toxic in Scotland, she of course denied it. If we had a truly unbiased media who put her to the test she would crumble and disappear. The woman is a shallow bully. Also, is she the only tory leader, EVER, to wear red all the time. Has this also been carefully choreographed too. She will last as long as the craze for hoola hoops did.

  119. Ken500 says:

    The system was analysed before the Election. Look two articles back from Rev Stu. For SNP/Independence voters it was 1st and 2nd vote SNP. That was the strategy. Or Tory/Unionists would come through on a 2nd vote which precedes a first vote. Thousands of votes are disregarded.

    Unelected Tories crowing. The overbearing arrogance of Tories. Just more lies, lies.

    There you have it. Jackson Carlaw ‘Westminster should step in to stop another Referendum.’ 25% of the vote. Tories all over MSM.

  120. heedtracker says:

    Hubris without mercy, arses saved by D’hondt.

    Its all about the rule of Britannia, if it wasn’t for D’Hondt, the tory BBC and press, Scotland would probably be, no, certainly would be an independent nation state today.

    D’Hondt, tory BBC, Rule Britannia.

    Just watched Ruth MacThatcher lie through her teeth at Ligger Neil, looking old school tory winner on 23% to 77% of the vote.

    In any order, BBC Ligger Neil, ultra Scotch cringer, Murdoch henchman asks

    “How are you different from the tory English, Ruth MacThatcher?”

    Oh, oooh, aaaah, eh, well, eh, ooh…

  121. Andrew McLean says:

    To any police, fire, nurse, teachers, doctors, and on and on, when the budget is put before parliament Jackson Carlow has just said he will oppose your getting any pay if he is not happy with the entire budget, now I know as only a couple of handful of MSP he is not got much leverage, but the fact that he is prepared to have you without pay till he gets his on way is absolutely disgusting, as is his shitting on the Scottish Parliament whe he said the Westminster parliament should step in to stop any referendum even though the majority of MSPs support independence.
    What can they do, troops on the streets, Jackson go fuck your self.

  122. davidb says:

    It astonishes me that some readers of this blog still clearly do not understand the voting system. It has been discussed for months, complete with idiots guides.

    It is considerably more proportional than Westminster. It was designed with the ultimate aim of ensuring the SNP could not win a majority. We are, by convincing 46.5% of the voters to vote for us, nearly there. We still have work to do. Especially in seats on the fringes of our Nation.

    I believe in proportional representation. It would have made a big difference in the UK if we had done it in the past. I voted against the Liardems proposal in the last UK parliament because I could see they were being ever opportunists, and trying to make a system that benefited primarily them. Had they proposed a truly fair system I would have voted in favour. Had they got their way Cleggie would still be their leader.

    I think that the Holyrood system in a post independence Nation will lead to instability. There are still proportional systems which are used in other countries we may need to borrow from.

    But that is a matter for us after we are independent.

    I cannot conceive of a system where the voters will be able to outvote the party machines or membership in the composition of their slates. Labour has a problem for instance where the members like Mr Corbyn but the MP’s detest him. We have seen some people elected here on some slates here whom we despise. But voters are rarely engaged with politics, and that is the same everywhere in the world. The party machines will game the slates whatever happens.

    We got the SNP majority in 2011 by fluke. We got Indyref1 because of politics. We have more prospect now of winning our freedom than we ever had the day the SNP won in 2011.

    If we had achieved the much opined 53% or more the polls were trailing we would all be crowing here. The system is proportional. If we can get to a position by 2021 where we have Indy as a manifesto commitment and 55% or more of the voters vote for us on the day. We will have a clear mandate that the will of the Scottish people is for that independence. Meantime can we all forget the spilt milk, and move on.

    We can have some real fun now that we have the Tank Commander as lead opposition. Kez was so bad you ended up having sympathy for her. Ruthie is almost a minime Thatcher. And what a bunch of rejects from a UKIP branch she has alongside. Get the popcorn in.

  123. scottieDog says:

    @Patrick Roden
    If you want a forensic analysis of the damning evidence that has been brushed under the carpet regarding 9/11 have a look at the work of Michael c Ruppert former new York cop who uncovered the evil underbelly of the American establishment. Sadly he took his own life a couple of years back.

  124. Not Convinced says:

    I was thinking that this election result, whilst obviously “not good” wasn’t a total disaster however I’ve come to think there’s a way the unionists might be able to capitalise on it?

    Be as obstructionist and awkward as possible (doubtless what they feel the SNP MPs are like in Westminster), vote against bills as much as possible, attempt to insert amendments (blatant wrecking amendments, more subtle crippling ones but also ones that are workable but support their interests), always vote for more debates (i.e. delay voting as much as possible) and generally make it as hard as possible for Parliament to vote out any new laws.

    Then for all the upcoming elections through to and including the next Holyrood elections in 2021 campaign (as they did this time) on the basis that “the SNP are obsessed with independence and refuse to actually govern” and point to Holyrood’s inaction as “proof”.

  125. Ruby says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:
    8 May, 2016 at 10:27 am

    I see Buffalo Girl is on with oor Andra Neil this morning.

    Will he ask her some tough questions, such as: “Why did you do all you could to keep the word Conservative off your election literature, or, at best put it in icroscopic print”?

    Or, will be roll over and allow her to tickle his tummy?

    Ruby replies

    Weird that the above prog is no long availabe on iplayer are the ‘Reporting Scotland’ progs only availabe for 2 days?

    Miss Trunchbull of the ‘Ruth Davidson NO to Independence we are not Tories Opposition Party’ was asked that question by Jackie Bird and if I remember correctly her answer was “But everyone knows I am a Conservative”

  126. schrodingers cat says:

    Look two articles back

    better still try thinking for yourself

    the reason we are in this situation, ie the yes movement is now dead, is because Stu, kelly, bella, peter bell, commonspace, rise solidarity the greens and the snp bloggers spent the election bickering amongst themselves.

    they are all to blame

  127. HandandShrimp says:

    I do not have a problem with making Holyrood more representative. The D’Hondt system isn’t perfect but it does give results that approximate to the votes cast.

    Who parties place on their list is their choice but they really should make it clear who is on the list. The Greens did that because they primarily a list party.

    With regards the outcome for Labour, it has left Kezia with a headache. Mostly the same old same old and not the broad brush of new talent that she had hoped for. It is going to be the usual bitter Bain principle from this bunch which is fine because they dare not side with the Tories (unless they have totally lost their marbles) and therefore they will abstain. They makes Nicola’s job a doddle.

  128. heedtracker says:

    Hubris on us too, Anas Sarwar Holyrood’s a dictatorship, not democratic. Anas Sarwar MP

    Anas Sawar MSP

    Either or.

    Thanks again D’Hondt.

  129. Joemcg says:

    So there you have it the tories want WM to step in to block any independence referendum. Battle lines drawn then. This could get messy.

  130. Ruby says:

    Tut! I get annoyed when poster discuss what is happening on live TV!

    Although on saying that it’s good to know which progs will be worth watching on the iplayer.

    Lecture over!

  131. Glamaig says:

    Media pushing the Tories in Scotland should get a few Slabberites thinking… if they are capable of that. And I wonder what the vibe is in Pacific Quay right now?

  132. David Stevenson says:

    It’s amazing how short the memories of some people are.

    Very few seem to remember how the majority of SNP MSPs came to be elected in 1999/2003. Losing constituency candidates elected from the list made up the vast majority of those MSPs. Nicola Sturgeon, Alex Neil, Kenny McAskill, Linda Fabiani, Shona Robison… The list goes on.

  133. heedtracker says:

    Just listening to Hammer of the Scots Severin Carrell explain to Gordon Brewer how Scottish YESers gave the Greens the 5% needed to stop SNP majority. Another triumph of D’Hondt and UK media in Scotland, like Carrell.

  134. Andrew McLean says:

    You are saying democratic power should be held by political parties, your argument that people are not bothered is pretty poor, leave it to the parties, but David political power belongs in the body of the electorate, not slates? Also you confused me if the system isn’t safe after independence then it’s not safe now.
    The list system is not democratic in its foundation.

    But I agree, the parliament is going to be very confrontational, especially if the tank commander thinks she’s parking her tanks on our lawn!

    I was going to say more but my arm has decided to take a holiday!

  135. heraldnomore says:

    Yes it is bloody annoying that we are still paying for these eejits, but they have as much influence as Rise or Solidarity. Though they should be hanging their heads in shame those brass necks will no doubt haud them up a little, and they’ll be carping from the sidelines for much more than the next five years.

    However next year the councillors will get their chance, and we will go onwards, stronger, for Scotland.

    And with the Tank Commander in the full glare that can only be a good thing.

  136. There is/are billions of tons of natural gas under Orkney and Shetland worth nearly 1 trillion, plus all the jobs,

    Hydraulic fracturing is the only way to get at it,

    i would never want Hydraulic fracturing on the mainland because of water contamination with all the toxic chemicals that are pumped into the earth,

    but the Orkney and Shetland Islands are far enough away that there will be no harm to us,

    just sayin ken.

  137. schrodingers cat says:

    i thought he was saying that the drop in snp support from the constituency vote across to the list vote was snp voters switching to greens.

    you could also argue that the greens supported the snp on the constituency vote (only 2 green candidates standing in constituencies) and voted green on the list

    he wasnt saying the greens stopped the majority, at least that is how i read it

  138. Dr Jim says:

    As others have said
    Just finished watching Sunday politics and the SNP clearly won the election but they also definitely lost as well

    So on that basis Scotland and the FM can, (as runner up and long way behind Ruth Davidson says) “take a hike”

    Democracy’s what I say it is (Tory party policy)

  139. Breeks says:

    Electoral reform?

    Oh jings.

    How about we address a bit of broadcasting reform first eh?

    If we secure free and impartial news broadcasting to police Scottish news and politics properly, I feel sure the electoral process will probably take care of itself.

    Electoral reform is an open door for the Electoral Commission who did such a sterling job policing the 2014 Indyref and making sure everything was fair, even handed, democratic, properly handled by the media, and that Purdah regulations were respected then fined Rev Stu for missing a dot from an “i”.

    Ye cannae change the laws of physics Captain, but with Purdah, the laws are pretty flexible apparently.

  140. HandandShrimp says:


    Elections always bring out the worst in politics.

    I don’t particularly blame the bickering, it wasn’t at the worst end of the spectrum. I haven’t fallen out with any Green friends. What was an issue was that people that don’t care for independence picked up on the confusion and started telling us in the MSM that it would be a good idea to do this or that for a better indy2 attempt.

    We should be grateful that they came late to the party with this strategy.

    However, the outcome is not as bad as people are making out. The SNP had 65 seats on the Thursday and woke up to 63 on Friday. The Greens had 2 plus 2 semi-attached independents/former SNP people. On Friday they had 6.

    The situation is barely changed and despite Ruth’s best efforts nearly 50% voted for Indy parties.

    The wheels are still on the bogie and people on Bella, Wings and Scot Goes Pop need to take a chill pill. We are still in this and in the driving seat.

    Commonspace, as its name suggests, gives space to all sorts of ideas. I would not class it as an Indy site per se. Some of the articles there are excellent, some are little more than flame bait.

  141. heedtracker says:

    David Stevenson says:
    8 May, 2016 at 12:15 pm
    It’s amazing how short the memories of some people are.

    A hit there. Very different eras though. Would an FPTP Holyrood have blocked SNP and a referendum, is this the turning point for SLabour come back, built on Scottish independence and excellent candidates like Neil Findlay too?

    Come back in 17 years time!

  142. Valerie says:

    Worth bracing myself to watch Tankgirl (even Marr called her that) on ligger Neil.

    Over to Edinburgh on the screen, so her face is bigger than usual, and in glorious detail, the rictus grin just slides off her face, and the wee corners are down turned.

    Nasty shallow witches are always close to exposing themselves.

  143. Just a few points. As the UK is one of the original signatories to the UN Charter and has acceded to all the later amendments and supplements to it Westminster can’t stop us having a referendum. Nor can Spain stop the Catalonians.
    I know the reaction if they tried to do so – and so do they.

    There is no way the Labour rump can significantly support the Tories in the Scottish Parliament and retain any support. The “not having an overall majority” factor is being overstated.

    If SNP supporters and members had voted on the list as they had voted on the FPTP we would be looking at 70 plus MSPs. The SNP did not do enough on this issue (which, to be fair, did not appear to be a significant issue until late on in the campaign).

  144. DavidB , it is a slow and unrelenting journey towards Independence. Next? The Council elections.

    I watched Frank McAveety the other night on the Beeb’s election special..Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!He is the epitome of a bloated Tamanny Hall carpetbagging politician.

    The SNP and the Greens must start NOW, and put together a nationwide team of LA candidates, good people, able people, a band of citizens capable and willing to wrest control of our Councils from this corrupt bunch of Unionist carpetbaggers once and for all.

    The next step on the road to Hail Alba is to boot McAveety and his ilk out of office any political office of any shape or form.

    City Car Parks? City Building? £11 million in taxi fares?
    Police investigations. Matheson Square. Sex and rugs scandals?

    Cosla? Why 32 councils for a population of 5.3 million?

    Yorkshire with the same population has THREE Councils

    We have 32 of everything, with Executive teams on six figure salaries, many of whom are Unionist political appointments.
    The political Unionist rot runs right through our corrupt London Establishment society Up Here.
    The fight, and ”fight’ is now the watchword, enters its critical phase.
    Let’s hear it, Ms Davidson. Why does she think that we shall not hold her accountable for her WM Party’s attack on our society?
    She is probably that thick, right enough.
    Onwards. Aux armes, citoyens.
    That’ll get me flagged up on GCHQ’s big screen.
    Morning, Spooks.

  145. schrodingers cat says:

    What was an issue was that people that don’t care for independence picked up on the confusion and started telling us in the MSM that it would be a good idea to do this or that for a better indy2 attempt.

    it wasnt the msm telling us what to do, it was wos, kelly, rise, bella etc who were doing this. had these groups come to a consensus, the yes movement would have followed. their collective failure to do this is why their are so many unionists in holyrood today and why the yes movement has died

  146. Tam Jardine says:

    The election is now over. Thank fuck for that. Can we please, pretty please get away from the tribal pish that has divided us.

    The unionists are able to do it- they can unite, they can agree a strategy, they can work together. Anyone reading the Wings threads and other pro-indy sites from the unionist side must be laughing their asses off at the bile and negativity.

    The time for a strategy for the election between the pro-indy parties was a year, 2 years ago. They didn’t meet or if they did they never got it sorted out. So the parties didn’t cooperate- they competed.

    Now that is all fine in a democracy. We are at the beginning of a third term for the SNP and slab have been vanquished. The true enemy- the tories are now going to be exposed and Ruth Davidson’s tory party will have to answer for every policy Cameron and Osborne dreams up.

    The unionists are terrified of a second referendum and the real prospect of that if we get dragged out of the EU against our wishes is now so real that they are desperate for Nicola Sturgeon to rule it out- even though she has no ability to do so.

    I am not going to be stripped of my EU citizenship- I would happily take to the streets to assert it.

    Watched ‘Winter on Fire’ on Netflix again last night. Anyone getting tied up in knots over d’Hondt or Bella caledonia or the Greens or indeed the prominent indy supporters bickering and blaming and stoking up this bitterness to the enormous satisfaction of our unionist enemies… they should sit down and watch the struggle of the Ukrainians against their government.

    It is humbling and inspirational to see folk from all walks of life unite against a common enemy, using the skills they have to construct defences, to setup medical centres, to simply put their bodies between the Berkut riot troops and the women and children and elderly of Ukraine.

    It reminded me of that glorious movement I was and am proud to be a part of.

    We have a different type of struggle and we need to set about it with renewed vigour and intelligence. Work out who our real enemies are and act to neutralise them. Here’s a wee hint for those people of all stripes in the Yes camp- it isn’t Patrick Harvie, it isn’t Alison Johnstone, it isn’t Stuart Campbell and it isn’t Lesley Riddoch and it isn’t Kevin Williamson and it isn’t Iain Macwhirter and it isn’t James Kelly.

    United we will win- divided we will not- it is as straightforward as that from what I can tell.

    Enjoy your sunday- and find that documentary on Netflix.

  147. Grey Dug says:

    So who is going to be Presiding Officer? After Alex Fergusson (Con) and Tricia Marwick (SNP) it must be Labour’s turn, it’s only fair.
    James Kelly would be too embarrassing, and Kezia Dugdale was the party leader when I last checked. Can I suggest Ken Macintosh who, in Ian Smart’s words, has “been at Holyrood for sixteen years without anyone really noticing”?

  148. al urquhar says:

    Schrodinger’s Cat @ 11.10

    Thank you. Couldn’t have put it as well myself, but at least I can stop biting my typing finger now.

  149. Phydaux says:

    This bunch of Labour numpties will be doing exactly what for their constituents?

    The SNP should aim their fire at the Tories where it hurts…i.e. land tax, holiday homes tax, outright ban on fox hunting, tax on blood sports estates, end charitable status on private schools.What’s not to like?

    Turnout is the key to future elections, referendums, mass rallies etc.It may be that some of those who didn’t vote couldn’t see the point.Their lives are still shit.Their energies are spent trying to make ends meet and worried sick about it all.

    Plus the way campaigns are conducted are a complete turnoff…all that stage-managed nonsense and endless speculation about a voting system designed to confuse.

    The gloves are off however now that our arch enemy is in plain sight.I am hopeful that a fresh and invigorated Indy campaign will engage people once again.More and more of us want an independent Scotland.It may be more than we are told, by way of opinion polls and the silent voices we don’t hear.

  150. heedtracker says:

    it wasnt the msm telling us what to do, it was wos, kelly, rise, bella etc who were doing this. had these groups come to a consensus, the yes movement would have followed.

    The MSM told us it was a guaranteed massive SNP majority. Most sneaky in all of it was The National. It probably did mean fewer YESers going to vote or at least kept voter turnout at normal levels.

    Its clearly solid 50/50 yes/no in Scotland now. It may be higher Yes, if they had turned out to vote May 5 but here we are.

  151. Dr Jim says:

    Democracy can’t be won by everybody talking about it, it leads to too many opinions for too long and everybody thinks their opinion is more valid than everybody else’s
    Hence, nothing gets achieved, which is always what opponents of democracy count on

    If you want a big nail hammered in you get a big hammer and hit it hard, you don’t get a lot of little hammers and give everybody a wee Shottie and then have a conversation about how to hit the big bloody nail

    You want democracy, you vote one party give them all the power to take democracy and then if they mis handle the situation afterwards it’s not a problem because you’ve got bloody democracy so you can vote them out because there are always others who are willing to do the job

    Scotland’s like a drunk guy in a pub, you can’t reason with him because he keeps coming up with Shite after Shite until you go away, nobody can argue and win a point when the people you are arguing with keep saying “Aye but”

    Maybe Johann Lamont wasn’t far wrong after all
    Can’t believe I just said that

  152. Ian Mackay says:

    D’Hondt – or more specifically the Scottish D’Hondt system with more constituency MSPs than List MSPs thereby not being completely proportional – was designed by Unionists to try and keep out the SNP.

    Now with the SNP and Greens in the ascendant, it’s the Unionist parties that benefit from the List. That’s fairly ironic and they must be glad of a proportional system.

    I share the frustration that List members seem unelected. However this could be remedied by listing the List members for each region on the List ballot and voters when voting for their List party rank their preference for the List.

    D’Hondt is then worked out as normal with say Labour winning 3 regional seats and then Labour’s list votes are checked on ranking to see who are the top 3 ranked by the Labour voters; similarly with the Greens, Tories, SNP etc.

    That way every parties voters can have a choice of whether they want to see fresh talent or yesterday’s losers in place.

    I think if we move to online voting all these options and more could be easily open to us.

  153. Tam Jardine says:

    Shrodingers cat- 12.05pm & 12.39pm

    There is truth in what you say. I have just read the next thread attacking the Scottish Greens position on gender quotas. I could honestly greet.

    Will give this a wee break I think. wake me up when all these people I admire and respect start living up to that admiration and respect.

    Tam out

  154. Papko says:

    The premise of the argument is faulty , In the constituency vote , people are voting for their party as well

    So If you “put a Turnip up in West Fife ” , they would vote for it and the SNP , bit like they did with Labour for decades .

    So by your argument none of the Beetroot’s and Potatoes , should be able to get in .

    The result of the election reflects (roughly) the first choice voting intentions of Scots .

    22% of electorate voted Tory (in the constituency ) …..they get 24% of MSP’s .

  155. HandandShrimp says:


    I beg to differ. I think the seeds of the Yes movement are there and will blossom as the season changes.

    Have faith – we can still do this. 🙂

  156. David Stevenson says:


    There could never have been a FPTP Scottish Parliament as there was no consensus for it and no-one would accept mass Labour hegemony on less than 50% of the vote. The system was a reasonable compromise. I think too much is made of the idea that it was all aimed at taming the SNP: no-one could have predicted the shift in political fortunes that we have witnessed. (Just see the stunned rabbit-in-the headlights situation that Labour finds itself in as evidence).

    Labour had a policy that prevented their people standing on both the list and constituency. That policy was borne of their overblown confidence that their core vote would never leave them. Defeat in 2007 should have been a warning, but they were in such denial that in 2011 they maintained that policy and it slaughtered them in the Parliament, leaving the like of James Kelly as front bench material.

    No-one can see a way back for SLAB but that is not say it couldn’t happen. Unlikely to be any time soon though…

  157. Big Jock says:

    Sturgeon steely eyed and determined to put the Yoons in their place. ” We ended with 64msps and we now have 63″.Your point Brewer!

    Meanwhile Sarwar. ” We are neither British or Scottish”. Essentially what he tried to say. So who’s side are you on you little cretin.

  158. Leslie Wilson says:

    The next stages of this will become apparent soon, then we will be able to judge how best to go forward, that is what the SNP will do. The Unionists are not going to have the success they hope for.

    What we really need to be thinking about now is planning to get rid of the deadbeats that run the majority of our Councils.
    We need the SNP to have a solid plan with this, in order to be able to run them out of town.

  159. heedtracker says:

    David Stevenson says:
    8 May, 2016 at 1:03 pm

    Its interesting you ignore the sheer power and glory of England’s tory BBC media in Scotland.

    But underlying it all is Scottish independence. Its blocking Scottish independence that got us the D’Hondt Holyrood and its Scottish independence that’s powering the SNP.

    This time, tory BBC led UKOK media bullshit was, SNP easy win, you can ignore it, not a big issue anyway. Ofcourse for yoons, red or blue tory, it was the exact opposite.

    So under D’Hondt, Scotland, just like England is still owned and run by the tory party. That’s the real triumph of D’Hondt.

    Slabour have died because they were shite at government, tried to be tory for middle England and then blocked Scotland BetterTogether 2014. Leftie Scots like me weren’t having any more of their red tory garbage.

  160. Edward says:

    I’m looking forward to the first Scottish budget
    Will the SNP manage to get through the reduction on APD?

    Or will it be ditched thanks to the Tories

    I am all for reducing and getting rid of the idiotic tax

    But I suspect that many that voted Tory will rue the day they did vote Tory and end up still paying too much for their holiday flights

  161. Farnorthdavie says:

    Sorry if this has already been raised. The photo of Rhoda Grant I would say is from inside Holyrood; the name plate says she is Scottish Labour PARTY!! How can that be,said party does not exist.

  162. Jamie McMahon says:

    Would like to see Recall of MPs Act (enacted last year by Westminster) extended to include recall of MSPs as a way of getting rid of failing and corrupt MSPs.

    Unfortunately not in time to address the Frenchgate/Carmichael fiasco, but might go some way to addressing the election of list MPS who do not fulfil their role as representatives of their constituents.

    Would like to see SNP government enact this legislation early in the new parliament.

  163. Iain More says:

    There is another tier to that unsackability and it is called the House of Lords where they go onto to control our lives without even having to stand for any election at all, they just have to be good at kissing arse to get the coat of deid stoat!

  164. Artyhetty says:

    Our SNP candidate, Alison Dickie in Edinburgh central, decided on principal not to stand on the list. Sadly she lost after an amazing campaign from her and her team.

    How many constituency candidates were also on the list? If it works like that.

  165. Old dearie says:

    Ok I have calmed down somewhat except that I now have a Lubdem Smp. Edin Western is an object lesson for SNP. Colin Keir was practically invisible. I know he would be doing lots of things but I was unaware. The Lubdems began campaigning as soon as they lost the seat. The Michelle Thomson issue needed to be tackled head on during the campaign. My husband and I twice went to the SNP hub to make a donation. Noone there on either occasion. Libdem next door always open and manned. I appreciate that activists would be out working but those no longer able to pound the streets could be in the hub.

    Stu you keep me sane! Please don’t stop.

  166. Macart says:

    @Tam Jardine

    Yep, I hear that.

  167. mike cassidy says:

    1)There’s no need to scrap the system voting.

    Just a need to realise that our experience over several elections shows it certainly needs tweaking as far as ‘dual’ candidates are concerned.

    Somebody said on a previous thread that any constitutional changes have to be passed by Westminster. Anyone know how that works.

    2)Wingers posting here clearly have much more knowledge of these labour msps than I have. Is there any hope any of them will have a ‘road to holyrood’ experience and cross the chamber in spirit or practice.

    3)Any chance of a similar list for Ruth’s Rangers.

    4)I said previously that the SNP have to stop being so civilised and responsible when it comes to dealing with the opposition.

    That “country mile” remark [almanny’sbunnet 9.43] drew attention to here will do for a start.

    “The shape of Holyrood’s committees is determined by the strength of parties in the parliament – again in line with democratic principles.

    “And it isn’t for any single MSP or party – certainly not those who lost the election by a country mile – to try and dictate terms.

    “The SNP government will seek to work with all parties to find consensus wherever possible, if it is in the interests of the people of Scotland.

    “At the same time, Ruth Davidson and Labour need to respect the verdict of voters across Scotland, who have handed the SNP an overwhelming victory at this election and with it a clear mandate from the public to deliver on our manifesto commitments.”

  168. Artyhetty says:

    Any infighting was not especially apparent or the fault of the Rev or posters on WoS!

    For folks to start blaming now is a negative, counter productive and depressing stance IMO.
    We have an amazing resource and portals for facts and infirmation, here on WoS and with many other Scottish blogs and sites dedicated to independence and to ensuring we keep the unionists at bay and answerable for their lies.

    My biggest fear was that we could have ended up with a unionist majority, stranger things have happened, thank god it was not the case.

    Let’s support sites like this one, and keep talking and discussing the issues, as well as outing the anti democratic, immoral, self serving gits that make up the unionist parties.

    We will reach our goal. I don’t think having a meltdown now is at all to be welcomed!

  169. heedtracker says:

    Severin Carrell waffled for the UK on Gordon Brewer show this morning, rancid Graun follow through with

    On an extraordinary night, even where the Tories didn’t win, they signalled in many areas where in the 1950s and 1960s they had been the titans of the political scene, that they are again a coming force. In Aberdeenshire East, their vote was up 15%; in Aberdeenshire South and North Kincardine it was up 20%. To the west, the Conservatives earned 7% more in Skye, Lochaber, and Badenoch. The SNP majorities in the two seats in Angus were halved. In Stockbridge, an affluent Edinburgh suburb where Davidson picked up significant votes, even those who didn’t vote for the Scottish Tory leader suggested they might in the future.

    “I could see myself voting Conservative,” admitted Jamie McGarvey, 47, a teacher, who voted SNP. “I think David Cameron is disgusting – that Bullingdon picture. No. But I could vote for Davidson.”

    Toryboys are signalling and Scottish teachers vote tory now. So its ok for you too, lets get the SNP out eh.

    Its not the end of the beginning of the SNP , its not the beginning of the end of the SNP, its is the beginning of the end of the SNP and the vile of separatists of our scotland region.

    Rule Guardian Britannia forever and ever.

  170. Proud Cybernat says:

    It doesn’t matter how much the pro-indy lobby bicker among ourselves–it simply doesn’t. We do it all the time and have been doing it long before IndyRef#1. Debate is healthy. And neither does it matter how much the concern trolls and HMG spooks operate under the radar to try and stir up pro-indy division. They will fail in their ultimate goal.

    For here is a simple truth:

    The moment IndyRef#2 is announced, ALL the pro-indy bickering will vanish like snow off a dyke and we will all pull together again as one solid YES movement.

    It’s guaranteed.

    So bicker away folks – as I said, debate is healthy. How’d you like ’em apples spooks?

  171. cirsium says:

    @Tam Jardine 12.41
    The shootings at the Maidan were a successful false flag operation. The snipers were from Pravy Sector and Svoboda, not the Berkut unit. See this University of Ottawa paper “The “Snipers'” massacre on the Maidan in Ukraine” SSRN-id2658245.pdf

    Here are two more examples of this winning format – snipers shooting both demonstrators and police from rooftops

  172. Artyhetty says:

    Heedtracker, re that Gruan write up, Stockbridge is so not a ‘suburb’ it is pretty much the city centre as we know, (10 mins walk) being just a small part of the Edinburgh central seat. Stockbridge is also a tiny area, ‘suburb’ makes it sound like a larger area than it is, not sure what the population would be.

    The new town is also part of the Edin central area, you can walk through the new town and not hear a single Scottish accent, lots of private school accents more apparent recently too. Lots of properties for sale, very noticeable. Do the owners know something we don’t?

  173. davidb says:

    @ Andrew McLean

    I don’t mean its a good thing that parties hold power. But that is actually what we have. The members in the SNP determine the lists. I had misgivings about sitting MSP’s, and about obvious never-had-a-real-job party understudies. And I was highly engaged.

    Now imagine the public are to pick the order of the lists. Brilliant in principle. Democratic. How does the average voter in Hamilton know of candidates who are on everyone’s lips in Falkirk? But both are on the same list. A highly engaged populace would be wonderful. But in an important election 43.5% of people neglected to vote at all. And as shown here in the past few days, a lot of even savvy people did not understand the electoral system.

    The next challenge is the councils. There’s a real tricky electoral system for you. In a four member constituency you cannot stand four candidates because the system could see you potentially lose 3 out of the four members simply because all the votes piled up for the one with name recognition.

  174. heedtracker says:

    Artyhetty says:
    8 May, 2016 at 3:08 pm
    Heedtracker, re that Gruan write up,

    Today’s clearly “UK takes back Scotland day” for all yoonster UK media.

    5 years of ferocious SNP bad, YES even worse, scotland region does exist, 56 Westminster MP’s black out BBC style.

    And that will be UKOK that, wont it:D

  175. David says:

    Why not have a rule that makes constituencies and list mutually exclusive for all candidates.

  176. heedtracker says:

    And that will be UKOK that, wont it:D

    Its clearly going to be a very UKOK noisy five years in Scotland but the buggers are really looking more and more like colonialists on the way out.

    Pretty slim gains for Ruth MacThatcher were in constituencies dominated by English voters which is ofcourse not mentioned by likes of Severin Carrell or Sir Gordon Brewer, Lord Andrew Marr. Even his regular upper class twit guest Horatio Nelson lacked the conviction of his Scotland loves the tories bullshit.

    But this is just Day 1 of their all new tory BBC led monstering Graun style, Scotland’s a shite place under Sturgeon, you love Ruth dont you, yes, yes you do, vote tory, they’re nice not nasty.

    Their vox UKOK pop’s going to be a real hoot too, as a teacher in our xcotland says Sturgeon sucks but Ruth is great for education, I think her UKOK policy on tuition really makes sense, all my pupils love her for it, and all my kids are really delighted to be paying 10 g’s a year for an arts degree at uni of Aberdeen. Ruth’s really the one for you and me.

  177. CameronB Brodie says:

    I get the impression that a lot of Green voters are clueless about humanity’s interaction with the environment and are simply stroking their egos. A lot of the ones I have spoken to are woolly liberal types, who fail to appreciate that “DEEP GREEN” philosophy is essentially a form of anti-humanist, eco-fascist totalitarianism. Then there are the trustee hippy types….

    Of course, we all know from the WOS survives that Scottish Liberals are more [c]onservative than Conservative and Unionist voters.We also know that the British conservation movement was started by nimby Tory types in the Home Counties.

    @ Scottish Green
    Do you not appreciate Scotland will never achieve a sustainable future, while we are part of an intrinsically dysfunctional UK.

    The economic, social and political structures of the UK are all unsustainable. Get with the program peeps. Don’t be another British Labour Party (i.e. a party disingenuously branded as Scottish but who are actually Unionist at heart).

  178. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Scottish Greens
    Then thee is the separate issue of sustainable societies and Cultural Diversity. You wont get that as part of the Union.

    Still think the UN’s Agenda 21 is the ticket?

  179. keaton says:


    The NE has voted overwhelmingly SNP by the barrow load and now has more Tory MSP’s than SNP.

    Whit? They have 9 SNP and 5 Tory.

  180. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    “People ask me why I’m always smiling” – Keiza Dugdale.

    Maybe it’s because she get’s paid for talking a lot of shite! Nice work if you can get it.

  181. Norman Martin says:

    The flaw in the list system is that the parties rank the candidates rather than the electorate. An electronic voting system could accommodate a menu where once party xyz had been selected for the regional list a page would open for giving preference ranking for the candidates from that party.

  182. yesindyref2 says:

    What a load of fucking shite, who cares, it’s done, the election is over. Indy stands at around 48%, now we work to make that 50.0000001%, 51%, 52%, 55%, 60% and fuck off Westminster.

    What I’m really greeting about is that I didn’t have the sense to realise yesterday morning that the winning numbers in the lottery would be 4 14 17 27 34 36. Had I realised that very simple to predict load of balls, I could have had £3,390,932. A nice tidy sum of money. Ah well, there’s always next draw.

  183. Fae Queen says:

    Old dearie,
    I too am an ‘old dearie’. While the sturdy stamina-filled members of our campaign went out on the active campaign trail, we less mobile elderly and disabled members manned the Hub. We did the meeting and greeting, folded leaflets, filled envelopes, answered phones, colour coded street-map routes and bonded as a team and as new friends.

    No job is too small in a campaign, and those who ‘sit for Scotland’ are invaluable. They also free up the vibrant walkers for outdoor work.

    For next year’s campaign in the Council Elections, maybe offer your services to your local Hub.

    And Hubs, please do let your keen-to-help less-mobile members know how much their voluntary help is needed and appreciated.

  184. neil bruce says:

    David Stevenson says:

    8 May, 2016 at 12:15 pm

    “It’s amazing how short the memories of some people are.

    Very few seem to remember how the majority of SNP MSPs came to be elected in 1999/2003. Losing constituency candidates elected from the list made up the vast majority of those MSPs. Nicola Sturgeon, Alex Neil, Kenny McAskill, Linda Fabiani, Shona Robison… The list goes on”.

    The only problem with this point is that the current leader of the party of the people on your wee list, or for that matter any previous leaders, did not say that it was “unfair” to do so. Nor did or the leader of the SNP complain about any other party doing that.

    Kezia Dugdale did. Now however she appears to be quite happy to accept list Msps that stand on both the constituency and the list, and to do so herself.

    I thought that was the whole point of this blog post. Did you not actually read it?

  185. old dearie says:

    @ Fae Queen

    Agree completely! Make use of us all.

  186. handclapping says:

    A quick and dirty solution would be to forbid a constituency candidate from standing on the list for that constituency’s region

    OTish Will this bunch of Blair era cast offs realise that their only way back is to attack the Tories both here as RDP and, as proxies for Corbyn, as DC’s mob at Westminster?

  187. Effijy says:

    Love Dr Jim’s saying about the
    Westminster Parties Losership contest.

    Need to keep that one for Losership leader Wee Ruth Krankie, Kim Jung-Un, Tank Commander, Buffalo Girl, Plonker.

  188. orri says:

    No need to get rid of the D’Hondt system. Simply replace the constituency ballot with an STV one and use the first choice on that as the vote that determines the additional members.

    It’s a bit like AV+ without the need for two ballot papers. There’s less chance of a favourable throw of the FPTP dice. People want Green MSPs they vote Green as their first choice, or if someone is standing they vote for the candidate.

    Arguably slightly more favourable to minor parties but we can live with that.

    Thing is as far as the SNP is concerned a working minority or an outright majority on a closely PR system is preferable. In addition we don’t want to “break” the current system so badly that Westminster uses it as an excuse to amend it in a way that favours unionist parties. Change it now to prevent tactical voting being used in future elections against us.

  189. MY, MY how things have changed, I remember when Labour used to disparage the list MSPS as second class.

    Now the boots on the other foot, we now have all those candidates aboard the Labour Titanic having jumped into the lifeboats in order to save their precious political careers.

  190. chasanderson200 says:

    Tam Jardine- 8th 12:41pm
    With you all the way on that Tam.

  191. Orri says:

    Labour were at it. If a party has all it’s constituency candidates on the list it means they can’t have more than 12 MSPs from a given region.

    Now a case might be made that some elected candidates have less support than those rejected elsewhere. A bit more flexibility on the ordering of list candidates to give preference to more electorally popular candidates could make all the difference.

  192. Noel Darlow says:

    People can see who is on the list and are free to vote for whichever party they like. In that sense, it’s no different to the constituency vote. List MSPs represent real support and real votes.

    It’s up to the individual parties to choose whom they want to represent them. No-one else has any right of veto. If they keep putting the same unpopular candidates up then more fool them.

  193. One other point I would add regarding Alex Rowley as one of those unsackables, is that he has never served a full term as a council leader.

    He bailed out as leader of Fife regional council in the early to mid 1990s? and as we saw he bailed out again as leader of Fife council in about 2013? to stand as the Labour candidate for Holyrood to replace Helen Eadie
    when she died.

  194. Matt says:

    Neil Bibby MSP looks like he’s just bursting with charisma and personality!

  195. Howard Kennedy says:

    Don’t forget the others who were rejected at the UK General Election and parachuted in like floating parasites on the Labour list.

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