The uninvited
Posted on
March 03, 2018 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 04-18
- 04-18
- 04-17
- 04-15
- 04-14
- 04-13
- 04-12
- 04-11
- 04-10
- 04-09
- 04-07
- 04-06
- 04-03
- 04-03
- 03-31
- 03-31
- 03-30
- 03-30
- 03-29
- 03-27
Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
And they wonder why we’d want to ‘help’. Time to get out of this arrangement before we’re also hamstrung along with this feckless lot.
Brilliant Chris, just brilliant.
Aren’t we the lucky ones? Two new characters. Beautifully observed, Chris.
Maybe the Tories should have considered the ‘hard facts’ before having an EU Referendum. They could not make a bigger mess. Unbelievable. Labour are useless. Why on earth do people vote for them in Scotland. That is the mystery.
Thank goodness for the SNP Gov standing up for Scotland. Imagine the state of Scotland without them. Unthinkable.
These cartoons are brilliant. “If a picture paints a 1000 words”
Come the next indyref and/or anytime soon it would be great to have a crowdfund to get some of these up on billboards round Scotland. They convey a message in two seconds, are engaging, would get folk talking that normally don’t engage in politics/Indy and last but not least are fabulous.
Meantime in la la land (LBC Radio) just now is a phone in that if most No voters heard would shift to Yes – it’s full of arrogant types saying England shall not be bullied!!! It’s all about England – so why not make it thus? End of UK AND FULL INDEPENDENCE FOR ENGLAND.
Brilliant.
See that nasty Celtic fringe!!!!
Should we ‘cut the rope’, or just leave these British Nationalist clowns dangling when we walk away. Hoist by their own
petardstupidity and arrogance. The laughing stock of Europe.Scotland needs independence ASAP.
OR, we could look at it another way – if the United Kingdom truly were a union of equal partners, which is what it claims to be…
It is time to vote England OUT of the United Kingdom. In their arrogance they have wilfully sought to undermine our ‘precious union of nations’, have acted with disregard to ALL our partners, and sought to undermine and dominate the union. As such, they should be cast out. They are no longer a fit and willing participant in this union of countries and territories, called the United Kingdom.
🙂
I’d love to help, I’ve got a piece of Duct tape for over his mouth.
They just get better and better Chris, well done.
Ha!
Liking the dragon with the “am I bovvered?” expression.
Chris
Great work as always…however you will upset the “Bruttish Bigots” of NI with your one character representing Ireland 🙂
The DUP and Rees-Mogg are both focused on a return to the 18th/19th century the Empire.
Oh that’s a keeper Chris. Nice to see oor wee Hamish with a couple of mates.
Terry @ 7.54 and Robert Louis 8.03
I made the suggestion the other day over on the wee ginger dug, that the answer to the tories problems was to hold an independence referendum for Engerland, then they could go their own sweet way, and gie the rest of us peace,to live as we want to, and not as the tories think we should. I was a bit tongue in cheek, but mibbies it’s the best answer.
The real irony is, that if I lived in England, and a general election were called tomorrow, I do not know who I could vote for. Both Labour and the Tories have become consumed with this brexit nonsense. Vote tory, get brexit. Vote Labour, get brexit. Red Tory/Blue Tory.
They are both just as bad. That is why Scotland needs out of this unwanted and undemocratic union with England.
If you live in Scotland, Ireland or Wales, and are not furious about this brexit sh**e, then you haven’t been paying attention.
Marie Clark, at 0817am,
Your suggestion of it being England who should leave the union is a good one. It is England causing all this grief, and it is England who seems obsessed with leaving the EU. My opinion, is they should be made to leave both the United Kingdom union AND the European union, and gie us all peace.
I think Wales, Scotland and Ireland could happily co-exist. England is the problem. Always has been.
‘One size fits all’
..Used to be written on the label of asylum straight-jackets..
Also available as a sex toy, for (esp Tory) fetishists on Amazon.
They enjoy their own suffering.
Brilliant cartoon, got it all in one. Brexit is all about England Every one else is just the pet poodle to be towed where ever England fancies.
Every interview of ordinary people shows a wish to return to a world that has gone.
Every picture tells a story right enough!
Well done Chris, though ye forgot the poodle David Mundell.
He’ll be gutted!!
Brilliant Toon Chris but hingin by the ankles naw naw , ah wid hiv hung Mr England by the haw maws but who am ah certainly no ah felt tip Artist lol .
Keep up the good work .
Superb as always Chris. That’s it in a nutshell. The only thing I might have added would be the (potential) parachute in Hamish’s pocket. I hope he’s thinking of using it soon before it’s too late.
Fantastic cartoon Chris. Just a small suggestion though.
You should have had a knuckle dragger in his sash regalia standing next to John Bull pointing a gun to his head, metaphorically speaking of course.
That would have made it a clean sweep.
Regards England’s independence from the uk.
There was an online petition doing the rounds lately calling for exactly that. The last time I seen it, it was sitting at just over 800 signatures, probably mostly Scots.
The English just don’t want it because they know, but will never admit, that they would loose so much.
O/T On GMS discussion on Hebrides Energy and Our Power and the battle to end fuel poverty.Swiching to them! Any info as I fancy switching to Our Power based in Niddrie?
Brexit advocates are ambitious for making England great again.
Scottish independence, however, should be about rectifying the great damage caused to our integrity as a people and a nation by our earlier experiences of ambition of the type.
Loud and clear: The Union Was an Exceedingly Bad Thing!
Theresa is certainly making an eloquent case for Scottish independence, will she be the last British Prime Minister, will she survive until the Scottish referendum? mebbes we should think about a statue once this all blows over! Next to Donald Dewar perhaps?
Independence Warrior helps advertise The British Labour Party in Scotland’s new Web Shite.
http://indyref2.scot/common-space-editor-defends-coverage-of-scottish-labour-website-launch
Lol, I can see folk laughing at these cartoons hundreds of years down the line.
Just when you think Chris can’t get any better he produces this. Fantastic Chris.
We’ve been trying to help poor old England avoid all this embarrassment since June 2016 but no luck. Not sure there’s much any of us can do now other than save ourselves.
In a straight jacket … very appropriate … if only!
Captures the point perfectly. John Bull’s Tories won’t cooperate with the rest of the these Isles but want their cooperation back!
Describing it as hypocrisy doesn’t even come close.
Nice one Chris.
But whilst still being part of UK the three ‘free’ onlookers are still in a far more constrained and helpless position than Sir John Bullshitter.
Sad but true.
Now that John Bull has put himself in a straight jacket…
It’s time to bring on ‘Bor Gullet’.
Us lot are helping…
Each other.
OTish. Eight reasons why John Bull seems Hell bent on suicide ….
http://archive.is/kzNe1
… sounds about right!
I like the Welsh dragon with the pot belly, Chris. Very nice. By the way, this is the one week you should have been taking a break in a hot climate!
Your essential weekend reading:
Scotland the basket case: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-mrY
Of Jocks, Nats, and Nazis: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-msa
galamcennalath @ 9.35am
Thanks for archiving that, Ian Jack has produced some very good pieces lately, this was another one.
Looks like the Leprechaun is cheesed off and who can blame him given the totally disingenuous negotiating from UK and impossibility of pleasing all of the parties in Ireland.
Appears to be only a few solutions
1. CU and SM for NI as suggested by EU/UK Phase1 deal,
2. NI joining Eire after a border poll,
3. NI becoming independent and doing its own thing, (don’t think this is possible due to GFA, but throw it into ring anyway),
4. CU and SM for whole UK
Whilst NI citizens already get the option of Irish citizenship perhaps in the event option 2 or 3 is chosen they could be given the option of UK citizenship as well as Irish. This may help placate the unionists.
_________________
Given the intransigence of the negotiations what will happen in the event of a No Deal which is looking increasingly likely? Any thoughts?
They shouldn’t need any help they’ve managed to help themselves to our resources quite easily for centuries,
Excellent, Chris. Thank you.
Theresa is getting desperate. You can now see it within the floral language. If one goes by the headline in this morning’s Telegraph where it states that ‘meet us halfway on Brexit May urges EU’ then if this is the language being used by Theresa, then it has gone beyond panic in Westminster and Whitehall. It has now become the language of a deep-driven fear of what is now looking like financial meltdown.
As the last year has progressed and the failure of talks, I’ve had this underlying feeling that the EU, rather than just telling the UK to ‘eff off’, that they now intend to maximise the pain onto these islands. I can’t help wondering if the EU’s intentions is to actually dismantle Britain politically. Over the last century, Britain saw to the fragmentation of Germany twice, first the splitting of Prussia by seceding key territorial lands to Poland (West Prussia ie Silesia and Galicia) after WW1 and then again after WW2 with not just the loss of Eastern
Prussia, but with the ending of that nation-state completely. The imposition of Federalism on to Germany removed the German Juncker class (landed nobility) and forced the nation to abandon pretensions of having a royal family, an upper establishment and by removing literally the class system. Everyone was to become equal in Germany. Britain was the main culprit behind this political and ideological setup for modern Germany …and yet, it never imposed such ideas of federalisation and equality in Britain. You have to ask why?
Now I wonder …is this an underlying objective of the EU? Do they wish to change Britain; a nation that endorses an anti-EU and European agenda, and therefore to do so, could so by shattering the UK economically as well as politically. Could the issue over Northern Ireland cause a political fallout in Britain where the Celtic nations decide to take matters into their own hands by seeking secession from the UK State. If only England remains, its influence is markedly diminished. How long before a humble England seeks to rejoin the EU …5 years …10 …a generation?
I think there is more going on here than just economic arguments. I think there is politics within politics going on. It’s bad enough having one anti-EU nation on the Eastern border of the EU (Russia), but to have an annoying mouthy one on the Western side is possibly too much. Forty years of carping and griping has led to the EU in deciding that this nation must be treated severely and harshly. So by refusing to meet any of the UK’s demands, it instead muddy’s the waters of Britain itself. What an opportunity for the EU in removing that perpetual mouthy thorn from its side once and for all…
Brexit is just savoir-faire.
Aye, the celtic
tribesslaves are getting restless again, cheps.Bit of a problem this time, cheps. We don’t usually have to deal with all three at the same time though……Oh Dear. Why can’t they just shut up and crawl back into their boxes?
Kangaroo says:
Says a lot that the option which closest fits what the people of NI chose democratically in EURef, ie stay in the EU, is the option the Tories and DUP hate!
Has to be a border poll followed by reunification. Like Scotland and IndyRef2, it seems difficult to imagine either country opting to stay in a cliff-jump-UK.
Two of the best i can remember was number i, lots of snow,so they had to bring in the helicopters to drop food for the farms, so we had the helicopter guy shouting down to Paul and Linda at their farm, would you like any grass, and Paul shouts back, yes and two packets of cigarette papers please.
2) A local dance for the employees of the social security office, the band where all wearing brown paper bags over their heads with slits for their eyes………… lol
Robert Louis @ 8.21
I have been living in England for the last 3 years. I didn’t move from Scotland for fun but because I had to. You are right about not knowing who to vote for. I wanted to write SNP on every ballot paper I have been faced with. I live in an ordinary wee town. The folk are also ordinary but they vote Tory. Why? I find myself with a Tory MP and a whey-faced youth as my (Tory) councillor. I do my best to give these two grief at every opportunity. Scottish (or Welsh) events never mentioned in the news headlines here. Obviously not relevant. I don’t pay the BBC propaganda tax or for newspapers so I only read headlines. The people seem delusional and are walking towards disaster with their eyes wide shut. I see the butcher’s apron often. Why not England’s own flag? It feels to me as though the folk want to live in wee places with no amenities, preferably in 1945. The whole place feels to me backward-looking and inward-looking. I am finding it more foreign than any other country I have ever visited. I am coming home as soon as possible, hopefully to vote YES. I voted YES in 2014. I hope I will qualify to vote YES in the next indyref. PS I am not tarring the whole English nation with this brush just the ones who have given me this impression.
A bit off topic but an indication that trade disputes are not the sole prerogative of the EU/UK. Some light relief in a dark winter.
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/sex/chinas-condoms-are-too-small-says-zimbabwehs-health-minister/news-story/0361918b79eee5500070bf28001f24b8
Neatly done Chris. 🙂
‘Bout sums it up really.
Socrates MacSporran says:
3 March, 2018 at 9:44 am
galamcennalath @ 9.35am
Thanks for archiving that, Ian Jack has produced some very good pieces lately, this was another one.
I think that one factor Ian Jack missed is a “dog that didn’t bark” — the failure to substitute for the loss of the British Empire. The UK (basically England) should have been moving towards a green, greater self-sufficiency approach around the time of the Winds Of Change speech in 1960. Instead there was Beeching, motorway building, the stoking of the population ponzi, “the white heat of technology” and… looking to the Common Market / European Community as some sort of saviour.
it’s taken a while but the chickens are coming home to roost — and if the City of London henhouse collapses then it’ll be seriously grim.
That is very funny, Chris. Apt as always.
Regarding who English folk will vote for if they are pro EU.
Fairly substantial, and influential folk on Twitter, now saying as no one represents their views, they must send a message in May, at local elections.
So they are saying must vote Plaid, Lib Dems, Green.
It’s pretty clear now to everyone, Corbyn is a Brexiteer. His attack now is to say Labour would handle it to benefit of country, and May is just messing it up.
He has blatantly lied about the EU. He really is a sorry excuse.
Excellent Chris.
That’s the state of things right enough. What’s he like eh?
Time for the others to have a quiet chat about things and make preparations for another future I hope.
PS: Many will know the result but James has added a bit of detail.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/tory-hubris-cruelly-exposed-again-as.html
Would it not be better for England to exit on their own and leave Scotland – N. Ireland & Wales in Europe? The English want their monarch – £ – blue passports, let them have it all and let’s see how many other countries have time for them.
As usual Chris, brilliant.
Whilst I am here has anyone seen Common Space? They have given a whole section to Labour (Red Robin.) The Unionists bought our country from under our noses, now they appear to be slowly “buying” our few media outlets. Loki, Haggerty, all bought and paid for.
Money ,fame, and mixing with those who can progress your career or personal ambitions appears to be a heady brew that few can resist. Sad.
@Valerie
Very true regarding Corbyn, he is trying to deceive. His position is almost identical to May’s, he wants to have a special UK Customs Union agreement not be in the current Customs Union. This is exactly the same as May, the only difference is she doesn’t want to call it a Customs Union but a special relationship or something (it’s May and clarity is never her strong point).
@JLT says: 3 March, 2018 at 9:56 am:
“As the last year has progressed and the failure of talks, I’ve had this underlying feeling that the EU, rather than just telling the UK to ‘eff off’, that they now intend to maximise the pain onto these islands.”
Nah! JLT, you are over complicating a fairly simple and straightforward matter.
The European Union began with a simple purpose and added to that basic purpose but has never wavered in the basic purpose that began it.
The basic reason behind the birth of the European Union was to prevent the previous European history of almost constant wars ending with the two World Wars that resulted in the ongoing threats of Nuclear conflict that could end a World inhabited by the human race.
Europe then sat between the USSR nuclear threat and the USA nuclear threat that seemed, and still seems, unaware of the threat they are to the entire World.
In ending the constant European conflicts they have largely succeeded and with the fall of the Berlin Wall they began to dismantle the USSR threat but Russia still remains in a much weakened military threat.
The next stage of the EU development was to create the biggest free trade market in the World and thus to lessen the growing threat from conflicts between the Eastern bloc and the USA which, due to the United Kingdom’s, “Special Relationship”, with the USA saw the Westminster Establishment inclined more and more towards the USA and less inclined towards the European Union.
Which brings us up to date with Westminster attempting to divorce itself, and thus also dragging Scotland, Wales and part of Ireland along with them, towards closer links the WTO and the USA.
From the outset the United Kingdom was a outlier among the European nations and never forget De Gaul’s firm opposition towards the United Kingdom’s membership of a place in Europe.
Westminster’s next move was to turn its back on the Commonwealth Countries that had steadfastly stood by them throughout two World wars and actually beg to join the European Union. Even then they thought themselves as exceptions to the rule and demanded special exemptions from certain EU rules.
On the EU side of things they have fallen over themselves to accommodate the UK who have remained since joining a thorn it the side of the EU. In this the EU have never changed their views that the red line of the four freedoms must by met by all EU member states and any state who cannot/will not meet those conditions would, at best, only get some of the membership benefits and would be denied a say in EU decisions while paying EU dues. In this they are being consistent by applying the same conditions to the
BRUKEXITeers.They are no more trying to punish Westminster than they are such as Norway, who pay EU dues but have no EU voice. It has been EU policy and it hasn’t changed – no one can cherry pick from the EU Freedoms. If they do not accept them all they cannot be, or remain, as EU Member States.
Have just finished reading ‘The Way Forward’ by Shafi/Jamieson in the BellaC mag in The National.
Fuckin ragin’, away for a walk…
🙁 🙁 🙁
One of your best ever, Chris. British nationalists treat Scotland, the north of Ireland, and Wales like crap yet demand we support them in their xenophobic Britnat ambitions.
Aye, right.
Never mind Colonel Blimp and her landmine photo-op, we’ve got to continue laying our own political landmines under the rotten stinking foundations of this so-called precious united kingdom.
Brilliant, Chris. Love it.
Pro-EU Remain voters in England have no one to vote for. So … why don’t the SNP put up some candidates in England? At least in certain target areas to begin with, for instance constituencies that include places like Berwick … or Corby Town … or wherever …
Even in some London constituencies, which were very pro-Remain, pro-EU … And as soon as possible, once it gets better know, across the board, throughout England (but leaving Wales to its ally, Plaid etc.). Moreover, on all fronts, local elections as well as Westminster ones.
I don’t see any disadvantages. And of advantages there could be many.
I do see it as an important way of getting it known across the whole of the UK what kind of Party and political force the SNP really is. Including just how reasonable the SNP are. Of course there would be plenty of attacks and lampooning from the gutter press, but that wouldn’t matter. With good candidate selection, the SNP would be able to give the lie to that propaganda in the long run.
Why should the SNP leadership leave the rabbid English Press to misrepresent and mis-portray them at every turn? What would prevent reasonable, articulate pro-Remain, pro-EU voters from turning to them? Not just as a protest vote against the current madness, but as the voice of reason. And indeed of democracy.
It’s not only English Remainers who need a Party to vote for. What about all the European nationals who are still living and working in England, and hoping something will change?
I don’t think it would take long to organise this, and properly organised, it could make a bigger impact than we might at first imagine. And it would puncture one of the (admittedly false) arguments that the BBC used to plaster our tv screens with Nigel Farage, while keeping the SNP off them. They said UKIP was a UK Party was a UK-wide Party because it was standing in so many seats, while the SNP was only a local thing, and therefore did not deserve the same kind of representation on televised debates etc.
Well, if the SNP has UK-wide candidates, that’s an end to that piece`of BBC chicanery. And if anyone down south pretends the SNP is too ‘Scottish’, Scotland is still part of the UK isn’t it. Besides which, in England SNP could be thought of with commas between the letters, re-tweaked to mean … ‘Scottish, National and Pro-european’.
The SNP is obviously pro-Scottish, but even in UK terms it has been standing up for the true National interest in a way that none of the other main Parties in Westminster have been. That should be made known and clearly publicised throughout the UK.
And the SNP is and always has been pro-European. So the suggested ‘tweak’ of the meaning of SNP will do fine.
The SNP undoubtedly has a media problem. Not just in terms of the constant hostility we know about, but even more in regard to simply being ignored. The BBC being a main culprit in that regard.
I can see why some will think otherwise, but I think going UK-wide would in the end give the SNP a lot of the publicity it sorely needs. The anti-SNP stuff would continue, and no doubt increase, but as more people across the UK got to know the reality of what the SNP is like, and what it’s about – its reasonableness and principled politics – the hysterical anti-SNP Press lobby would sooner or later puncture its own balloon.
There might even be real support in papers like the Guardian, once the SNP can’t just be shunted off into its tiny (fundamentally irrelevant?) ‘Scotland’ section …
The dragons a keeper. Send a copy to Plaid
So funny and reply from the 3: Oh yes we are!
The common market came in to being to make trading with each other a very simple process, and to have a club where every member in that club would trade with each other without the need to trade with outsiders unless you wanted to trade with outsiders as well as with the common market, after all, we do like our fruit which mostly comes from places that can grow the likes of bananas, because they have the sunshine.
Now having said that, the market was not set up to stop wars, trading with each other made sure we remained friends, the UK and France still have nuclear weapons, that means that the european political union still has nuclear weapons on its soil, so a nuclear war is still a possibility, and the european union has no control if it ever does happen.
One of the last things obama did was sent troops into Poland for military war games in case Poland was attacked by Russia, the european union did not stop this madness, and russia was not to happy about this show of power on its border, so if anyone thinks that being part of this union will stop wars, then all i can say is, wake up and face reality.
wull says:
I remember Alex Salmond after a speech down south, he publicly said “we could do well down here!”
It amused me and probably others at the time. However I have often thought about such a move, and how it may serve our purpose.
If we turned into a full blown entity, I am sure it would bring in decent numbers, as yes there would be media coverage, but likely the totally rabid kind, racism would certainly be aimed
at us.
However, I do think it would work better at least initially in Northern England, these people are suffering from Tory ideology
too, but have little choice of ways out.
That would still bring the usual Media response, but not sure these people would be taken in much by them, as they are sick of the same things that we are.
But it would not half shake England up, when they compare our policies with the Tory agenda or Corbyn’s either.
Depending how that went in voting terms, we could then think bigger or not. Problem is we want/need Indy now.
@Bill not Ben,
Your an idiot. Poland asked NATO for assistance following a Russian build up near it’s borders.I thought you read stuff?
Great new characters Chris.
Clootie
“Great work as always…however you will upset the “Bruttish Bigots” of NI with your one character representing Ireland”
You have a point, might I make the anthropomorphic suggestion of a jaundiced penguin with a bowler hat. 🙂
@wull says: 3 March, 2018 at 11:28 am:
“Pro-EU Remain voters in England have no one to vote for. So … why don’t the SNP put up some candidates in England?”
Aw! Cummon! The party that wants to be independent from England standing candidates in the country/kingdom that it wants to leave? It is two faced and would only lose them voters in Scotland.
@Bill not Ben says: 3 March, 2018 at 11:46 am:
“so if anyone thinks that being part of this union will stop wars, then all i can say is, wake up and face reality.”
What utter pish! Why do you imagine the Berlin Wall came down?
Take your neocom bullshit and shove it.
@Wull
Although it seems like an interesting idea I’m not sure how this could work. The SNP then becomes a UK party and would need to represent the interests of any areas outside Scotland were it is elected. If independence was proven to harm these areas how could you represent them except by stopping any independence request. In my opinion if you become a UK party then you have to give up the idea of an independent Scotland.
In my previous post, besides a few obvious typing errors, let me correct what I meant by using commas and re-tweaking what SNP means. That should have read, quite simply, as pointing out that SNP can stand for ‘Scottish, National, Pro-european’.
As a kind of slogan … (I don’t know Gaelic, but a friend of mine who claims to do so told me that ‘slogan’ is one of those relatively few Gaelic words that made its way into English, and that its original meaning is ‘battle-cry’ … Maybe someone on this site more knowledgeable than me could confirm whether that is correct …)
Anyway, battle-cry or not, that slogan – Scottish, National, Pro-European – would set out the Party’s main agenda in a clear way for English voters. Even the ‘Scottish’ part of it, along with the other two parts, would help English voters to see that the SNP is not, as such, an anti-English Party. It would be a good thing, even for the SNP in Scotland, for it to be seen as a Party which which ordinary, decent English men and women can identify with and vote for. They too can be pro-Scottish, pro-National and pro-European.
In actual fact, even in its promotion of Scottish independence, the SNP has always believed that this would in the long run be good, even very good, for England too. So long as I have known it, that has generally always been the case.
And it happens to be true anyway. In the light of more recent events, Yes winning the 2014 referendum, and Scotland becoming independent, would have been hugely in England’s best interests. There would have been no Brexit if that had happened, and England would not be in the mess in which it now finds itself.
As so aptly and accurately portrayed in today’s cartoon from Chris.
I am not suggesting that the SNP changes its name in England. It has to be clear that it’s still the same Party as the one operating in Scotland. I am simply suggesting that the letters SNP, re-tweaked in the manner indicated, would become themselves the best way of promoting the Party among English voters. That would be the slogan: ‘Scottish, National, Pro-European’.
It could be a game-changer, even a winner.
(Just to be clear, let me add that I am not a member of the SNP. Simply a long-standing SNP voter. Maybe SNP members could pick up this idea, and run with it within the Party … There is a huge void to be filled in England, and the SNP could be just the Party, and political force, that is needed down there, at this precise moment in time …
Mmmm… On May’s ‘leave no one behind’ point.
Firstly, it Seems to me that you’d have to presume that everyone wants to go where you are leading. Clearly, they don’t. Secondly, you’d also have to presume that as a group, the nations involved would wish to travel together. Again, clearly, they do not. Finally, you’d have to presume that your actions in leading those in your care to this point were above reproach, that you had a moral right/high ground from which to make such a statement. No. Not even that. And no amount of using the media to rewrite your history for you will hide that fact.
Mr Cameron had no right to endanger existing constitutional agreements with the home nations. He had every duty to inform the public as to the consequences of his decision to proceed with an EU referendum against clear warnings of the risk of constitutional crisis. He also had a duty to prepare for the contingency of a Brexit vote. He chose to do… none of the above.
Ms May latterly had a duty to inform the populations of the UK of the full economic, constitutional and societal consequences of the Brexit vote. Whilst it was still advisory and prior to the triggering of A50 she had the opportunity to inform the public of UKgov’s lack of preparedness for an exit vote. Ask for patience as the relevant impact assessments were performed and fully inform the public as progress was made. She chose to ‘play her cards close to her chest’, ask for trust, trigger a snap election, seek ministerial legislative powers without parliamentary oversight and all in the name of ‘strong and stable’ government.
UKgov’s humiliation on the international stage during phase 1 talks have become the stuff of a diplomats worst nightmare. Phase 2 as of yesterday looks no better and the populations of the home nations are no wiser as to their present circumstances, never mind their futures.
So, given that folk don’t know what the destination is and they have very little reason to trust the one doing the leading currently (She did say she was the PM of the whole UK, yes?). I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if more and more folk didn’t mind being left behind at all.
Great cartoon.
I wonder if the Rev could if not himself get some guest writers to pursue the next stage for independence. As time moves on I am more than convinced that brexit (soft, hard) will impose greater ethnic brutishness being forced upon the peoples of Scotland. A David Dimbleby, Boris Johnston, Rees-Mogg view of brutishness which lets not kid ourselves is of a hard imperialistic and colonialist England. Reading Bella Caledonia with the National today the gentle suggestion that cosy Corbyn labour are somehow the good guys is a fallacy. Corbyn may believe in Irish self determination but he views Scotland as a colony. Ultimately he will line up with Mundell and Davidson to ensure north Britain succeeds over this ancient nation of Scotland
Get the snow out of the way and then we should start to ratchet up our possible final fight for this country’s freedom. It is as serious as that.
Les Wilson says:
3 March, 2018 at 11:55 am
Thanks, Les. I fully agree with you about the North of England, especially in terms of English Northerners having far more of a more natural affinity with Scots, and with Scottish aspirations. Indeed, the SNP could do well there.
The only drawback might be that the North of England tended to vote Leave in the EU referendum, even rather strongly. That was why I didn’t mention that part of England in my post. On reflection, however, some of these Leave voters might have changed theior minds by now, when they see what Brexit is turning out to be in reality. And there are also vast numbers of Northerners who did vote Remain, anyway. Even as a minority, that is an awful lot of votes going a-begging.
alexicon says:
3 March, 2018 at 9:03 am
Sorry to hear that they only have about 800 signatures.
I am sure I signed it over a year ago and hoped it would have at least 2 million (Scottish Independence supporters) by now.
@Bob Mack
Infiltrate,become a decision maker,hire your own kind,then set the agenda,
has been the way of most establishments for thousands of years,
from Persians,Romans,to Political parties to Civil rights groups in America to Trade Unions,and of course Media,
the problem the establishment have with Wings is Stu has no command structure to infiltrate.
Just as a matter of interest I will not in future be buying the Saturday National that includes the Bella Caledonia magazine.
@Terry 07.54: “a picture better than 1000 words”.
Absolutely right. I have been saying for years, including to SNP HQ [tho’ not a member, just a voter and bung a few quid now and again], that we need to OWN a billboard company – remember the billboards campaign last year that had to change the wording to satisfy the billboard company?
I went to the Inverness Yes conference last Saturday and Paul K and Lesley R etc stressed it must be Yes DIY because none of the existing national bodies are going to, or are fit/suitable, to rouse non-party and cross-party support in the same way. [SIC are doing research but none of the other purposes it was set up for.]
In 2014 it was the grassroots that nearly won it but we lacked the tools to counteract the media onslaught. I’m convinced that a mixture of Chris cartoons and Ayemail and Indyboy brief punchy messages would pierce the consciousness of everyone who sees them, despite the P&J/Record/BBC etc etc.
So is there a group of Wingers who will get together and do this? [Here’s where I confess I can’t be an organiser as am in the throes of trying to buy a building for the community from Church of Scotland – see Friends of Clachan Lochbroom on Facebook. Oh and anyone with a huge chunk of money, please get in touch!!]
wull says:
As I pointed in my previous answer in this regard, we need Independence now. Should that happen, and I do believe it will.
Then, we could speak to others in northern England and find out if they had any interest in joining Scotland.
Places among some you spoke of who may look to the North with some envy at our more social society.
Carlisle, Berwick on Tweed, Even Newcastle and others could be perhaps interested in doing so, if that was the case they hold their own referendum to establish they would want to do that.
That is much less risky as it would not effect Scotland if they voted no, but would enhance us by population if they said Yes.
After that, who knows how far south it would creep.
That rope should be around his neck.
@jfngw says: 3 March, 2018 at 12:08 pm:
“Although it seems like an interesting idea I’m not sure how this could work.”
The answer is that it wouldn’t work. You cannot have your main policy as leaving a United Kingdom and then joining it. In any case the area that swayed the referendum to leave was the North Of England. Furthermore it is sheer twaddle that they have no one to vote for.
Neither had Scotland until they started parties that stood for independence. Then these parties fused into the SNP. There were other Scottish parties that claimed to stand for Home Rule.
Kier Hardie began in the Scottish Crofter’s Party, got sponsored by the Scottish Liberals then stood in England before becoming the very First Labour MP?
However, here is a brief history of the Labour party we know today:-
The North of England has had ample time to start any kind of opposition party they desired. Sedgefield, in Durham elected Tony Blair. The North of England has only itself to blame. As, of course, has Scotland who have not yet given the SNP enough support to be able to claim to speak with the people of Scotland’s sovereignty.
It would not surprise me she had our indref first then a GE, just to win.
There is no logic in what she dose.
Some folk should read more books. The origins of the EU was to stop war and starvation after 11WW. To stop Germany (or others) re-arming. Germany was not allowed to re-arm. Neither was Japan. Germany, Russian, Europe economy was devastated. 26Million Russians died saving the West.
It is US/UK that get involved in illegal wars. Causing the worse migration crisis in Europe since the 11WW. The Europeans have to sort out the mess. Costing £Billions.
Independence in Scotland would make the north of England better off.
interesting thread
this belief in english exceptionalism was aptly demonstated by S dave yesterday, an unshakable belief that the EU will bend over and do a deal with england.
the newspapers and media patch into this belief and sell the brits exactly what they want to hear, ie that the EU needs us more than we need them. This has been happening since the end of WW2, from commando comics to 1966 to team gb and it is ingrained in peoples minds. this was why brexit won
they reach out and grab onto any statistic offered by politicians which enforces this ingrained belief, eg, the eu exports more to the uk than we do to them, or the uk buys more bmws than any other nation on earth…
stats by their very nature are of course true but they dont always highlight the underlying truth, regardless of which, S dave uses them to bolster his belief that no deal will cause 100,000’s of job loses across the EU. S dave is, remember, a remain voter, not a brexiteer.
(50% of UK exports to the EU, only 5% EU exports to the UK, BMW sells 6% to UK, 4% to France, 5% to Germany, 3% to italy, 5% to sweden, etc, + the other 22 eu countries)
Scotland has suffered from this union, always being second fiddle to the english, the subtle propaganda has been going on for decades and is only now being realised. Our fight is to convince the scots that they are as good as anyone else, not better.
Sensible dave and his compatriots have a lot further to fall before the sharp wakeup call of reality even catches their attention
O/T
Total chaos on ‘Any Questions’ , audience booing, hissing, cheering, shouting rubbish, Fraser Nelson roundly laughed at and ridiculed; Discussion on Irish border causing almost total breakdown of programme.
BC R4 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09sr105
Anna Soubry being very vocal too.
No further discussion in H o C until May??? Not sure I heard that correctly…
Johnathan Dimbleby struggling but managing to retain control..
@wull says: 3 March, 2018 at 12:11 pm:
“‘Scottish, National, Pro-european’.”
Nah! wull, it is a bad idea and will not work.
In the first place the English have firmly fixed in their DNA that the name of the SNP is, “The Scottish Nationalist Party”, and every Englander knows in their water that all those called, “Nationalists”, equate with NAZIs and that Englanders are NOT, “Nationalist/NAZIs”, because they are, “English Patriots”, and even if the Oxford Dictionary quotes the two words, Nationalist and Patriot, as synonyms, one to the other, they know in their water that isn’t true.
Just take a wee trawl through Twitter, or any other social media thingy, and the proof will jump out and bite you.
Assume Mrs May’s speach was delivered on a Friday afternoon to avoid criticism from those in Brussels. Typical of Mrs May, a wee feartie!
Problem with this is ithe criticism mounts up over weekend and will hit her like a tidal wave on Sunday or Monday. GOOD!
Latest wheeze from Mrs May was we should all unite a make brexit a success. My response to this is to continue to buy Scottish goods first & foremost, to avoid English products and buy EU products, if from Ireland, all the better!
Direct action is required, I hope Nicola piles on the pressure next week.
Personally I’d go for a vote Scottish Parliament to reject the EU bill just as Mrs May sits down with EU leaders in three weeks time.
Make the tories’ lives hell, they are happy to make everyone else’s lives miserable!
@ wull
The question of the SNP standing down south, has been raised a number of times, and been dismissed by various SNP bods.
It has been politely pointed out, that a party whose main policy is independence for Scotland, cannot stand south of the Border.
Mr Peffers makes plenty of good points too.
I for one, do not want to see their focus diluted, where decisions on policy would have to have a UK dimension?
England has to sort itself out. They are predominantly right wing, no matter if we do feel sorry for those abandoned by Labour.
Can’t see anyone having highlighted this tweet ….
Nicola Sturgeon
@NicolaSturgeon
Spoke to PM last night. Reiterated @scotgov position on continued membership of single market/customs union. Indicated our desire to reach agreement on Withdrawal Bill but emphasised again the issue of principle at stake – we will not agree to a power grab on @ScotParl
TMay might stop the ‘power grab’ but it now seems highly unlike she will deliver ‘continued membership of single market/customs union’.
The way to handle Imperialist England might well be to think like an Englishman. Thinking like a Scot, Irish or Welsh (or Indian or Egyptian for historical reference) simply makes little impact; you’ll be spotted and neutralised from afar, the guns of disdain blazing.
Understand your adversary. Look, think and sound the part, however contrived. Be the wily, shape-shifting wolf within the anglo-saxon fold.
Nationalists of the old school instinctively knew the power and insight gained from such subversive deception.
Might lend some excitement to these intra-Brexit doldrums.
As long as the four countries of the UK keep subscribing to the criteria that the country with the largest population even when wrong must be right because of weight of numbers however disadvantageous that may be to the other three countries there can never be democracy in any meaningful sense, what you have created by subscription is voluntary acquiescence to dictatorship by the largest entity in that Union
The population of that largest country can then at will decide on anything they choose or assess at anytime to be good for their part of that Union and thus it has always been and if there is detriment to other parts of the Union those other smaller parts have no redress other than to send outnumbered representatives to speak but never to win any reasoned argument of their part of that Union
If you were to use sporting metaphors it’s three lightwieghts versus the heavywieght but only one at a time because the heavywieght makes the rules of the contest and is also the referee
I was born in the forties so well used to the dominance and duplicity of this system of governance created by and on behalf of the largest country in the Union
Simply put if any country were to be offered the opportunity to join such a system today in this modern age no country on earth would ever undertake to signing up to this obvious unequal insanity where all decisions were made adjudicated on and proceeded with by the largest country purely on the basis of trust that that largest country would always make the decisions which suited it and not the others
Which is why the EU who is faced with the problem of disentangling the UK from their Union that member (UK) who have never known any other way than being in charge of everything is insisting that the UK (England who sees itself as the UK) commits every single detail of their intentions in legal text, because the EU are fully aware and have said clearly, the UK (England) cannot be trusted on rhetoric alone as demonstrated by their treatment of the countries within their own Union (UK)
Hence the absolute and overwhelming necessity for the Continuity Bill now proceeding through the Scottish parliament and why a number of UK Union representatives in the Scottish parliament have and will vote against every stage of that Bill because their intent is to once again undermine any and all representation of a smaller part of what they see as their United Kingdom
In 1707 I cannot believe that when the people who took the decision to sell Scotland into this Union with England ever suspected this would be the result, for if they did they would surely have suspected their names would go down in historical infamy for ever committing such a crime against a people
The SNP represents Scotland they know this history to be true thus they will never repeat what has gone before and put themselves in that historical position
That’s why the SNP can be trusted whereas the UK (England) can never be
Apologies for the long post I needed to get this out
Wonderful ‘toon as per, Chris.
“Have just finished reading ‘The Way Forward’ by Shafi/Jamieson in the BellaC mag in The National.
Fuckin ragin’, away for a walk…
? ? ? ”
@Ian Brotherhood: in the absence of a budgie cage, the free copy of Bella Caledonia from inside The National is now nestling in my paper bin since I saw some ridiculous pro-Corbyn fluffing in the first article I began reading.
We don’t need this tiresome trendy splittist nonsense. Enough damage was done by this magnificent organ of the press in the Scottish elections. I see one of its most tiresome faux independistas is now being quoted in The Grauniad.
*Grinds teeth*
Lol, I can’t help from get the feeling that Nicola is itching for Theresa May to give her an opportunity to call #ScotRef, no matter how small.
Theresa, I would tread very carefully if I was you, but then I’m not, so by all means feel free to jump in head first if you fancy.
Wull don’t know what planet your on.
SNP is a Scottish party and when we get Indy do you propose we stand canditates in English seats. Take these seats, then incorporate these counties into Scotland, put your glass down and go home for your tea. Let England worry about England.
OT something I noticed in WoS twitter and worth highlighting.
HMG is ‘proudly’ telling us that in 2016/17 defence expenditure in Scotland was £1.6billion.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MeanwhileScotia/status/969660236981309440/photo/1
Firstly, total defence spending was £35.3billion.
Secondly, according to GERS, Scotland was charged £3.8billion as our contribution towards defence.
Any BritNat who claims Scotland isn’t being ripped off, or worse believes it is subsided, needs to have this presented to them!
things are hotting up but I really think UK needs to be committed irreversibly before we call Indyref2 i.e during the period the EU is ratifying the withdrawal treaty – or during the transition period – so they cant undermine it in the middle of the campaign e.g by promising to stay in the Single Market or any weasel words.
According to the BBC Scotland web site the circulation of The Scotsman continues its relentless (hee hee) sail Down The Swanee.
The declared circulation of 20k consists of 10k paid sales, 5k subscription sales plus 5k given away free.
So only 10k people actually buy a copy over the counter.
It used to be the case that as far as Births/Marriages and Deaths it was the norm to put an announcement in The Scotsman.
With only 15k people now buying the rag what is the point of paying for an announcement which will be seen by so few people.
This situation is a real problem as there now seems to be little chance of finding out when somebody one knows but with whom has not been in regular contact dies.
Two things ah wiz wondering about…
1) Have the two new characters been given names, as of yet?
2) How auld is oor Hamish (when wiz he born?)
Ye could start a ‘competition’ for the naming of the two new number ones.
Cuddly toys all round.
@TC –
As you know, I’m not easily ruffled, but that screed really got my hackles up, reminded me of post-indy, the fuckin mess caused by RISE, the utter shite some of them used to come out with to justify what was – as far as I could tell – pure entryism.
But what do I know? I’m one of the ‘male, pale, stale’ brigade who were so despised by young thrusters like Boyd and Shafi.
It all reminds me of someone we discussed very recently. If you haven’t seen this before please stick with it for a couple of minutes. It’s Limmy, with Malcolm Malcolm of The Politics Bar. I wish we knew who he based this character on but I suppose we can all ‘see’ our fave hipster radical in there somewhere…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IVwvbPBrIk
Fabulous cartoon, as always. Re Billboards and DIY Yes. If you have a car or a prominent window, print off one of Indyposter boys efforts and display there.
Simple, easy, lots to choose from and very informative. What you waiting for.
Re English exceptionalism, whenever someone starts up with the better together/part of something bigger, ScotNatz’s shite, I just say now, very loudly, how fed up I am with English Nationalists, wrapping it up in Union Jack, stamping the word British on it, and pretending its something ‘other’, and this business of them pretending that they ‘don’t have a dog in this race’ has worn a bit thin now too. It shuts them up big time and puts them back on their heals a bit.
I’m reading Hidden History – Secret Origins of the First World War by Gerry Doherty and Jim Macgregor. Very interesting, and alas, also not very surprising.
The Labour party are just as English Nationalist as the Tories (and almost from the start – have always been so), they just offer us the chance to be part of a ‘colony of poor’ united in our poverty and efforts to relieve same.
Which is kind of what Wull is offering by suggesting SNP members run for election in England.
The biggest change comes about from one area/country/group getting their hands on the levers of power and making the change come about. That is inspirational, and that is what the establishment has alway gone to great lengths to scupper at every level.
At the end of the day, I can’t do anything about what any person (English or otherwise) wants to think about me, all I can do is be responsible for my actions and behaviour – worrying about their opinion is to chase a will o the wisp.
What I am sure of is when Scotland gets Indy, a lot of good English people will have to do some serious taking stock of their home set up, and will hopefully create a good change from there. All the moneys from the Colonies (including Scotland) have been used to keep them pacified, they need a grounding before they can build again.
What is it that was said during Ind Ref 1 – live each day as if we are already independent – I’ll go for that.
Broken Vow, Brexshit Chaos – Yes Now.
Great drawing once again Chris 🙂 I do love the two new friends of Hamish.
Found this…explains another reason for the “power grab”
http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/big-agricultures-brexiteers-pulling-wool-eyes/
One of my mates has this afternoon posted on facebook, a clip, put out by the EPP grou in the European Parliament, of a speech by Esteban Gonzalez Pons on Brexit.
It’s from about a year ago. He does not miss the Little Englanders and hit the wall, but, needless to say, his target have simply ignored him and carried-on regardless.
Sorry, I cannot link to it, but, worth looking for.
Here’s another
http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/exposed-the-tory-trump-plan-to-kill-food-safety-with-brexit/
We have to get out soon!
I’ve never seen that before, Ian B, but uncannily like your typical quinoa-burger munching/organic espadrille-wearing achingly trendy zoomer. Slurrying of words and “Scoddish” are markers.
Female version: usually seen in long, leather coat, hair as if pulled backwards through a hedge with pink bow tied to a blond tussock. Elfin face pouts soulfully at the camera. Wants to have JC’s metaphorical babies.
Self-indulgent egotists but also very useful idiots for the Establishment.
@Cactus says: 3 March, 2018 at 2:34 pm:
“Two things ah wiz wondering about…
1) Have the two new characters been given names, as of yet?
2) How auld is oor Hamish (when wiz he born?)
Ye could start a ‘competition’ for the naming of the two new number ones.
Cuddly toys all round”
If they do have a competition they will have to ban Englanders from it or, by sheer weight of numbers the dragon will be named Taffy and the wee Irish leprechaun either Pat or Mick.
The English have a derogatory name for every nation on Earth except, of course an English person.
a few comments –
excellent cartoon Chris but I have to criticise the depiction of ireland.
She should be taller, surrounded by 27 angels (our gallant allies in Europe) and no longer dressed as a leprauchan as we (26/32 counties) have taken our place among the nations of the world.And the leprachaun is an English caricature of the irish!
re whoever asked about a crashout NO Deal. The EU has said that all Treaties stop – no planes fly, no driving licences are valid,so no lorries trading goods, UK seamen can no longer be employed on EU boats and ships, no educational titles are recognised, no EU tested drugs for the sick, no isotopes for radiotherapy for cancer patients, no UK mineral waters sold in the EU etc – i could go on ad infinitum
Might be the best thing to happen as IMHO it could cause a revolution in the UK within 2 days!
Robert Peffers says:
3 March, 2018 at 12:02 pm
@wull says: 3 March, 2018 at 11:28 am:
“Pro-EU Remain voters in England have no one to vote for. So … why don’t the SNP put up some candidates in England?”
Aw! Cummon! The party that wants to be independent from England standing candidates in the country/kingdom that it wants to leave? It is two faced and would only lose them voters in Scotland.
Robert, I always read your posts with interest, and agree with you on many, indeed most things, but not always. This is obviously one of them!
Maybe it all depends on whether you believe that Scottish independence will genuinely be good for England, or not. I think that when independence does happen it’ll turn out to be a ‘win-win’ result on both sides of the border, for Scotland AND England both. You seem to think otherwise. That’s OK – we can agree to differ on that one.
Others might ask: Why do I think our independence, and therefore the break-up of the UK, will be as good for England as it is for Scotland? Basically, both countries / both nations will re-discover themselves. In fact, both of them will re-discover their better selves. That ‘better self’ – in both instances, not just in England but in Scotland too – had been buried, lost sight of and covered in grime during three centuries of what is best described as Unionist Imperialism.
Becoming independent from each other is basically about rubbing all that old Imperial grime off from ourselves. From our two selves, that is, because Scotland was at least as much involved in that old Imperial Project as England was.
Since that rotten old Project collapsed – I remember being fascinated as I watched it finally falling to bits when I was a boy – Scotland has adapted to the new situation much better and more quickly than England.
That, at least to me, explains a huge amount about contemporary differences between Scotland and England. And also about the present political climate in the UK. Brexit, and differing attitudes towards Brexit and indeed towards Europe and Europeans, are part of this. So too are various developments over the course of my lifetime, not the least of which is the rise of the SNP and the more general movement for Scottish independence.
There is a very simple reason why England is miles behind. It did not properly adapt to the loss of Empire, and Brexit is the ‘last hurrah’ of the doomed and long-since-defeated Imperial Project. What we re witnessing is really tragic, so much so I find it both unbelievable and very hard to watch. It’s a sad sight indeed. Has it come to this?
England, really and truly, needs to be saved from itself. And it was – and still is – up to us, Scotland and the Scots, to mount the rescue. How? By becoming independent.
The fact that we very nearly did it in 2014 cannot be taken as any consolation; we should be blaming ourselves for not going the whole way. It was our moral duty to dig our neighbour out of the awful pit they had made for themselves, by becoming independent. Instead, we left them there, deluded with (and consoled by) their illusions, which then gathered strength and turned into the Brexit Tragedy which is now unfolding before our eyes.
Scottish independence was, and is, the only blow to the English psyche which will be sufficient to save England from herself. No other medicine will ever be strong enough to spring her out of her delusional fantasy-land. Nothing else can force her into the modern world, and make her the positively contributing nation she can and should be once again.
In England, the result of the 2014 referendum was experienced as a victory for (what in our view is the wrong kind of) English Nationalism. That strange and long outdated English Nationalism, which had manifested itself in the Imperial Project then swelled and carried on like a river in spate. It took heart from that (apparent) victory over the Scots in 2014 in order to launch its new campaign against the Europeans. Gaining that further apparent (but entirely Pyrrhic) victory during the Brexit referendum two years later.
Having gubbed the Scots, a rampant England had now gubbed the Europeans as well. It is perfectly obvious that if the Scots had won in 2014, neither the Tories nor anyone else in England would have risked a Brexit referendum in 2016. The whole idea would have become unthinkable, and would have been shelved for good.
In that case, none of the present nonsense would have existed, and England would by now have been coming back to its senses, quickly recovering from having been dazed and confused by the knock-out blow delivered by the Scots in 2014.
Scotland would have been independent, England would have begun to adapt in a new and much better way to the post-Imperial world, and both countries – I am quite sure – would have been fellow members of the European Union, and good friends with each other.
The reason that did not happen – and the reason why England is now self-evidently in such an enormous mess – is simply because we Scots did not win the independence referendum of 2014. As I said, I believe Scottish independence is and will be the best thing that ever happened to England. It will save the English nation from its own deluded past, to which she has remained far too beholden, shackling her with a totally false image of herself and of her place in the world which prevents her from making the positive contribution which ought to be hers. And which makes her – I am sorry to say it, but I think it is true – a danger both to herself and to others.
There is a logic in all of this. Legally, the Scottish perception of what the Union is, as a partnership between two nations, is correct. Whatever the questionable nature of that Union’s origins, and how it was actually brought about, legally it is a Treaty between two equally free entities and, as such, it can be ended by any one of the two Parties. However, the legal reality is one thing, and what happens in a nation’s psyche is another.
What some of us had known or thought for a long time became perfectly obvious during the campaign for the 2014 referendum: contrary to Scottish assumptions and the legal reality, in the English psyche the Union of 1707 was presumed to have been a victory for the imperial project of Edward I, as pursued at the end of the 13th and beginning of the 14th Century.
There is a straight line between that medieval project of the English crown in regard to Scotland (where it did not succeed), as well as towards Wales and Ireland, the beginnings of the English Empire in the 16th and 17th Century in America etc. prior to the creation of the UK, and the ongoing and expanding Imperial Project which continued apace after the 1707 Union.
I would suggest that in the buried-away corners of the English psyche all of that subsequent imperial development roots back and has its foundations in Edward I’s project, especially towards Scotland. Scotland is the key to the English imperial mindset, with which Brexit is entirely bound up, so much so that it may be called the contemporary expression of that mindset.
Edward I’s project was to subject Wales, Ireland and Scotland to England, but it wasn’t just that. Scotland was the key element all along, even though it was the one he tackled last, because he had to wait till the opportunity and circumstances he needed arose. It was the most difficult, because it meant eliminating an established Kingdom. Annihilating – that is, reducing to nothing – the already existing Kingdom of Scotland and its kingship, which meant its reality as a political entity, was the crux of his imperial project to subject the whole of the British Isles to his, the English crown.
If I am right, and that is the basis all the subsequent development of the English Imperial Project throughout the world, you can see why holding on to Scotland is so important to the English psyche. If Scotland goes, the whole Project goes.
And England will have to change radically. Literally, ‘radically’ – in her roots. … Think of the English Imperial Project – or rather mindset / (political) psyche – as a tree, in the roots of which lie the absolute need to control and subject Scotland. Cut the roots, and the whole tree falls. Not only falls, but dies – with the roots gone, the tree is drained of its sustenance.
No wonder there is such a dread of Scotland becoming independent. The depth of that fear, especially among the English establishment and those too easily influenced by it, became apparent in new ways during the independence campaign. So much so it surprised even me.
At the same time – and this is one of the reasons why I think the SNP should get involved in England – I think there are a lot of English people who, today, have really had enough of that old imperial mindset. They are desperate to get rid of it, and we can – and should – help them. What the establishment see as their identity, and their very lifeblood, they see as a cancer which needs at long last to be cut out, once and for all.
Painting with a broad brush, you could say, in psychological terms (in terms of the psyche), that that is the real difference (the root difference) between England’s Remainers and her increasingly mad and delusional Brexiteer fundamentalists. We ought to be helping the Remainers, even in England, not just washing our hands of them and leaving them to their fate (which means handing them over to the Leavers, and the looniest wing thereof).
There is a conflict going on down south between the ‘England First / Make England Great Again’ brigade (a la Trump) and that sweetly reasonable, moderate and tolerant Englishness which everyone in his right mind admires. Even in terms of Scotland’s future, and our future relations with our immediate neighbour, we should be doing all we can, even now, to ensure that the latter come out on top.
The SNP putting up candidates in English constituencies would, in my opinion, be a laudable and constructive move towards that end. Why should reasonaable Englishmen be deprived of the possibility of voting for the most reasonable Party with substantial representation at Westminster. This would not be hypocrisy, but good common sense. The SNP does not simply seek independence from England – a phrase which could be taken to imply that it is currently subject to England, which is not the case, but I know it was not at all meant in that way – it wants Scotland’s future relation with England to be positive and entirely amicable, and set on a different and much firmer foundation than has been the case in the past.
And why would Scottish independence be against the major interests of the inhabitants of any English constituency? Maybe there are some, but I can’t think of any particular place in England that is directly dependent on Scotland in economic or any other terms.
In that regard, it seems obvious to me that Nicola Sturgeon, for one, will do everything in her power to ensure there is no hard border between England and Scotland. She may not have said it explicitly, but it is clearly the main reason why she has downplayed the long-standing SNP policy of an independent Scotland being a full member state of the EU. It is surely concern to keep the English border open after independence that is causing her to toy with – or, at least, to allowing other SNP members to toy with – the idea that a Norway-style arrangement (customs union, single market etc.) might be enough, or even better.
If that is the only way to keep the open border with England after independence, irrespective of my own opinions on the matter, I am almost certain that that is the way the SNP will go.
I don’t think putting up SNP candidates in English constituencies is either hypocritical or two-faced. Instead, voting SNP – whether here or there – would be a matter of doing what’s best for both of us.
Promoting the SNP down there would be a way of propagating the reasonableness of its policies, many of which certainly do affect the whole of the UK. And most of these are policies which no other major Party in Westminster supports. For instance, opposition to the renewal of Trident, and the abolition of nuclear arsenals generally.
English voters deserve the chance to vote for such reasonable policies just as much as we do; these policies currently affect their own country no less than they affect ours.
And after independence? Well, if the SNP is doing well in some places in England it could just continue. It would presumably do so as a new, purely English Party, with a revised name, but continuing to pursue policies similar to those of the SNP and in something of the same spirit. And maintaining friendly links with its sister Party in the country to the North, without being in any way dependent upon it. Who can doubt that it would be useful to an independent Scotland if such a Party could indeed enter successfully into mainstream English politics?
England too will have regained her independence at that point, and will be better able to be her true – that is, her better – self. With psyche duly purified of all these old imperial illusions. It might just be this Party, now truly English, with its origins in the SNP, that leads England back into Europe … Personally, I would love that … !
Allow me the fantasy – even just for the smallest of moments – of victory eventually going to ‘sweet reasonableness’, in the end.
The EU was created in order to prevent any further outbreak of war in Europe … That must surely include a cease to the hostilities between Scotland and England. That is why I say let us never stop doing, as best we can, what is best for both our nations. Others are welcome to disagree, but I think our becoming independent from each other, at this particular juncture of history, will be the best way to serve that end. And – again, others may disagree – I would prefer that we would both do so as full members of the EU.
I also think that in this respect the SNP operating in England as well as Scotland would be a very positive development. Promoting the independence of both Scotland and England and laying out how lastingly friendly relations can be secured and guaranteed between the two nations is something that urgently needs to be put across. People, on both sides of the border, need to be convinced that this is really what will happen.
The SNP has a hugely positive role to play in banishing English fears, and garnering English support. Even for an independent England, not at all of the Brexiteer type – but, instead, building an ‘England in Europe’ mentality. That is what is needed to replace the old Imperial English mentality from which we all have suffered, England included.
This pro-English aspect of the matter, if taken on in the right spirit by the SNP, would also be good for Scots generally and for SNP voters, members and sympathisers in particular. Being pro-Scottish, and pro-independence, even fervently so, is not about being anti-English.
Even among thinking pro-Union Scots, one of the things that makes them suspicious of independence is that they perceive the whole movement, and especially the SNP, to be anti-English. We know that that is a false perception, but that is not enough. We have to be able to demonstrate to such people that their perception is wrong, and convince them to change their minds, and come on board for independence.
Being pro-Scotland and in favour of her independence has to be re-conceived in such a way that it is also about being pro-English. What we are proposing for Scotland is genuinely in England’s best interests. For anyone who has eyes to see, or a mind to understand, the Brexit mess is clear proof of that.
Let England be herself (her true self), and Scotland too. Both of them free and independent, within the concert of European nations. And both of them making a positive contribution there, and to each other.
re the dragons name = griff
dunno about the leprechan, reminds me of the see you jimmy hats which i dislike
Robert Peffers says:
Funnily enough, I can’t think of a Scots name for them.
There is Sassenach, but that really refers on a southern non Gael so could well include Lowland Scots.
The rest of the world certainly has names for them – Pom, Limey, etc..
My favourite is the German … Inselaffe … meaning island monkey, which given Brexit is unnecessarily offensive to innocent monkeys everywhere!
to iain brotherhood
I must admit to having criticised and defended these lefties in the past but this latest bout of attention seeking is the last straw
kat boyd
angela hagerty
jonathon shafi
loki
any i have missed?
Keep yer hands off me lucky charms, to be sure.
@ben madigan
Yes, I’m disappointed with the leprechaun, if I showed that to my wife she’d be disgusted (though she’d also laugh at the ignorance). But the Yanks are a bit like that, they still apparently think there’s a cow in the living room.
I don’t know if anyone else has posted this but here it is again just in case no one has.
Scotland in Europe Update: 2nd March 2018;
http://www.alynsmith.eu/scotland_in_europe_update_2nd_march_2018?utm_campaign=sie180302_1&utm_medium=email&utm_source=alynsmith
@Ian B
There’s a series in The National and I hardly even bother reading them, their idea is of some leisurely way forward that would take about 10 years by which time we’e fsked completely. They’re also “honest” about the costs by multiplying any reasonable figure by 10. Can’t wait to not read their defence plan.
Maybe they’re angling after the rest of the Labour vote. Proof of their pudding will be when Indy Ref 2 is announced, will they fall into full support of it, or be complaining “it’s too soon”?
@ Wull says,
‘I think there are a lot of English people who, today, have really had enough of that old imperial mindset. They are desperate to get rid of it, and we can – and should – help them.
The SNP has a hugely positive role to play in banishing English fears, and garnering English support. Even for an independent England, not at all of the Brexiteer type – but, instead, building an ‘England in Europe’ mentality. That is what is needed to replace the old Imperial English mentality from which we all have suffered, England included.
Let England be herself (her true self)’
Dear Wull, you make very interesting points, which are in effect a variation on the ‘labour/socialist’ theme of ‘not abandoning the poor, working man of England with whom we have so much in common’.
Very nice English people continue to vote en mass for Conservatives, and by a majority (however much you disagree) for Brexit – however much you don’t like this I respectfully suggest this is an expression of England’s ‘true self’.
I’ve met many a nice English person who does not and will not face up to the realities of British colonising, as the money from the asset stripping of other countries kept rolling in.
They didn’t know much – and thats how they liked it – but they kent whit side their bread was buttered.
If they truly are ‘ desperate to get rid’ of their current system of government – we’ll see some evidence of them protesting, organising, educating’. But like self determination – this is not something other people from other countries can do for them, on their behalf. We can and we should butt out.
And in the same vein – I was an admirer of The Canary, who were one of the few English media sites that wrote about Scottish Indy and the SNP fairly…. right up until Corbyn came onto the agenda, then they couldn’t forget us quick enough. Socialist Solidarity my erse.
The SNP have a big job to do, sorting out England’s democratic deficit is not it.
Dafydd de Dragon?
C’mon Welsh Sion, where are you when you’re needed?
@ Ian & the Cat, spot-on anent this self-appointed quartet of egotists, give them nuthin!
Fairly missed my National this week but not read Bella yet. Alan Hinnrichs from Dundee never disappoint on the letters front, wonder if he posts on Wings?
@ Wull, for a guy who posts half a yard & hasn’t joined the SNP is a bit odd! Stick yer haun in yer pooch man!
Wull at 3.38
I take it that you are actually an English remainer? It is none of Scotland’s business what England wants to do or does, nor is it our right to interfere in an other country’s politics, it is up to England, Wales and the Unionists in Northern Ireland to get on with it and then suck it up. We in the Frozen north have an out clause, our sovereign status and we will be exercising it.
@schrodingers cat –
I went back and read that piece again. It’s really difficult to nail what’s so infuriating about it, but it’s more to do with the tone of voice than any specific fact or detail.
There’s a patronising self-satisfied undertone to it, a presumption that the reader either shares the writers’ internationalist agenda or has yet to ‘find’ it.
Well, fuck that.
I don’t ‘share’ Shafi’s vision and I honestly don’t know anyone who *does* who isn’t also a blinkered ideologue. The same people who are fucking thick enough to confess to voting Labour while standing on a Yes platform are those who utterly wrecked the SSP and, with that, any hope of unifying the Left in Scotland. I had an exchange with Mike Small about this just the ther day after he took exception to a comment I made about CallKaye. He asked if I now, like so many others, ‘hate’ BellaC. I assured him I don’t, and that’s true *but* it’s well-nigh impossible to defend the publication of that shite from Shafi & Jamieson.
Many of the trendies who will have nodded away to themselves this morning while reading that piece conform to the stereotype so accurately sketched by Tinto Chiel (3.27), but their ‘spokespersons’ are far from the endearingly dense character created by Limmy. They are dangerous exploitative narcissists who haven’t even the common decency to set their stall out honestly – instead, they clamber onto any platform which has a microphone and, preferably, generous limelight.
The Yes movement does not need these fuckers. Most are identifiable e.g. if they’ve been approved for live studio appearances in Pacific Quay then they’ve already been vetted and are considered ‘safe’. Yes groups should always work on the assumption that the trendies have an anti-SNP agenda, then leave the individuals to prove otherwise. If they can’t or won’t, have nothing to do with them – don’t give them anything, especially your precious time, because they will waste as much of it as they can get away with.
@daisy. Excellent points.
If it’s coming – and I think it is let’s commit to getting out there. This site educates us. It’s our ammo. And I love it. But if you’re fit and able get out there too and join a Yes group. Fundraise, convert, campaign. Read wings, the dug, Scot goes pop then spread the word- to the unconverted. And don’t let the fudge over rise etc distract us. We need the keys to the house before we can choose the wallpaper.
yesindyref2 says:
Indeed. The aspect which they seem oblivious to would be the omnipresence of a hostile Greater England nationalist WM doing their damnedest to thwart Scotland at every stage!
My own feeling is that holding IndyRef2 and winning it is a big challenge, however after that WM won’t make things at all easy.
With these Brexit so called negotiations, we’ve seen the usual antics of perfidious Albion combined with indecisiveness. This is ‘only’ about withdrawing from the EU. We can only barely imagine how it will be when they turn to ‘negotiating’ the dissolution of their beloved UK!
Scotland will be forced to move ahead without cooperation and by necessity unilaterally. Well, we will need friends but I somehow don’t think we will find them in London.
I believe when the time comes to setting up the apparatus of state for iScotland, we won’t have the luxury of time!
Something I have seldom seen commented on is that at the height of the alleged wonderful British Empire on which the sun never set in the late Victorian period and up to WW1 very few of the UK population benefited in any way from it.
The vast majority lived in abject poverty in slum conditions and the only ones who benefited were the same bunch of arrogant bastards who are still in charge.
Things really only improved for them after WW2 but from the advent of the Thatcher government the clock has been and continues to be wound back.
Here are some characters from an alternate universe: (Hi LM xx)
https://wingsoverscotland.com/bonfire-of-the-sanities/
…commented upon 180 times, so far, good darts, SSG 🙂
Take a wonder and then ponder this new readers:
https://wingsoverscotland.com/tag/cartoons/
Let’s get Scotland back to normal.
iAye.
Bella Caledonia pull out went straight to the footwell in my car, soaks up the water off my shoes.
Haven’t read any of their stuff since they championed a split vote in last Scottish Election.
People who would put their own wee personal ultra leftie agenda before Scottish independence every time.
@galamcennalath
The timing of Indy Ref 2 is getting to be about right, with the shambles of the Brexit negotiations even Leave voters might be getting worried.
And apart from that, why spend 10 years preparing for Independence to avoid a transistional period which is nonsense anyway, why not go for Independence and have the transitional period then rather than before?
I’m not convinced they understand the meaning of the word “Independence”.
Ian Brotherhood at 11.13 am
With you completely. I will not be buying the Saturday National that includes the Bella magazine
@Ian brotherhood
I’ve had a look at these ‘independence’ sites, they are the go to commentators for the MSM so that should immediately raise alarm bells. Never visit them now or ever likely to contribute.
I have no interest in some commentators that advise me that I can gain independence by voting for a party 100% opposed to independence.
What normally happens is if you try to criticise them you will then be outed in a tweet or article accusing you of some unacceptable behaviour to try an silence you (or even reported to the police). This is quite well demonstrated today by a particular tweet doing the rounds.
I have to agree with Ian B and some of the others re Bella magazine. I’m afraid I tend to have a wee skeg through to see if there is anything interesting, then it’s straight into the bin. I find that I really object to this bloomin magazine in my National every month. I really want my paper, but no this crap.What to do, miss the National the first Saturday of the month. I mean your paying extra for this nonsense. What planet are these buggers on.
Should the dragon no be called Idris.
gotta agree ian
i was going to say that they are not ideologically driven but i think they are nothing more than opportunists.
being part of the chatteratti means they have to be continually noticed, controvesial etc which is why they criticise the yes supporters (wos, snp etc) it is their noteriety within this org that has given them oxygen.
it also means they will tow the britnat line and become the exceptable face of yes, right on cue, 5 mins ago i see a feed on my twitter where loki is being interviewed by owen jones in the guardian.
this ice ax is making my ears burn and i intend to do something about it.
kat boyd
angela hagerty
jonathon shafi
loki
? jamison
at next local yes group I intend to introduce a motion to make these people persona non grata
i.e. we will have nothing to do with any rally, publication or movement that promotes or gives these individuals any air time.
enough is enough, time for a clear out
@gus1940
I suspect the elite feared that they were about to be given USSR treatment and decided to spread a little of their cash around to quell the natives. The USSR collapse allowed them to return to their old ways and put the plebs back in their box. They have succeeded beyond their wildest imaginations, they even have lots of them voting for poverty.
Andy McKangry says:
People who would put their own wee personal ultra leftie agenda before Scottish independence every time.
they arent though andy, they are furthering their careers by doing this, any socialist or independence agenda is a secondary to their own personal gain
gus1940 says:
3 March, 2018 at 4:25 pm
Something I have seldom seen commented on is that at the height of the alleged wonderful British Empire on which the sun never set in the late Victorian period and up to WW1 very few of the UK population benefited in any way from it.
The vast majority lived in abject poverty in slum conditions and the only ones who benefited were the same bunch of arrogant bastards who are still in charge.
Things really only improved for them after WWII but from the advent of the Thatcher government the clock has been and continues to be wound back.
Aye and apparently according to the Red Tory liers it was themselves after WWII that were the engineers of it. Of course it had nothing to do with the fact that they along with the Blue and Yellow Tories including the German impostor Royal Family were fucking terrified of the sons of men who had fought and now were demanding what their own fathers had been promised and denied after WWI. Perfidious Albion is too quiet a description!
@Valerie says:3 March, 2018 at 1:56 pm:
“I for one, do not want to see their focus diluted, where decisions on policy would have to have a UK dimension?
Which was actually the point I was, rather more clumsily, making. If my memory serves me well I remember Margo Macdonald saying to my late wife and I that the best thing Scotland could ever do for the good of our English friends was to gain Scotland’s independence. She said because, by doing so, we Scots would benefit everyone in the United Kingdom.
I took it at the time the reason was that the union setup was holding the entire United Kingdom back. It made sense as London was closing down manufacturing, mining, shipbuilding and the nationalised industries by the use of North Sea oil & gas revenues and boosting the London financial services.
We found out the folly of such changes when OPEC flooded the markets with oil & gas and prices fell and the bottom dropped out of the oil & gas markets.
best just to block them
@Jonathon_Shafi @kittycatboyd @bellacaledonia @lokiscottishrap @angelahaggerty
you’re welcome
Aye now keep a compass by my bedroom window.
SO aye can see the weather blow in.
From the east side.
Or N or S or W.
Talkin’ aboot compasses, do y’all know what your political one is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass
To learn, here.
@Cactus
The test is here
https://www.politicalcompass.org/test/
I tend to think of myself as being in the centre, but according to this, I’m more Left and more Libertarian than Gandhi!
Wull @ 3.38
But what you are suggesting (albeit for different reasons)
is that we share our politicians…..
That’s the whole problem in the first place Wull!
We’ve tried that…..we dinny like it..
Have done the political compass thing several times in the past. At first I would come out a little left and and down of centre, which was about what I expected. Although none of my opinions changed every subsequent time I moved sharply SW to almost off the chart!
It seems ‘the centre has not held’.
For 300 years plus the Inglis have outsmarted the Scots. Shameful and cringemaking but…..
We’re not alone. It took the Irish 800 years to be free, but not quite, of anglosaxon dealings. The history of the Near East is replete with Brit double dealing, a good deal of which is responsible for that region’s current state. We ought to be much smarter in our methods. Assuming that things will ‘get sorted’ is irresponsible wool gathering.
We maun ding doun the Britis estait! Richt nou!
@ Gus 1940 who said “The vast majority lived in abject poverty in slum conditions . . . .”
Quite correct Gus. Even shows like “who do you think you are” present the facts quite clearly. The prevailing myth is that we all lived in upper-middle class splendour and invisible people “in service” and urban slums loved the set-up
re the transition period which the UK requested – it’s not a given. M Barnier has said it could be “iffy”. Depends on UK behaviour. So any move for Independence shouldn’t count on it. The UK could well be totally out of the EU in April 2019
schrodingers cat @ 5.14pm
Bingo!
Funny scary, this time. But Brexit’s going really well, if you’re a beeb r4 gimp listener, Strong and Stable Treesa and Rees-Mogg are all in Leave agreement, simper their beeb gimps, all the live long toryboy day.
Scary tory propaganda really.
Also, WoS gets quite a big mention in the Herald from Kev MacKena today but its all mixed in with that Leonard nobody so its hard to know why.
Apparently WoS is popular so that’s something for Leonard nobody to think about if he wants to win. God knows.
Leonard nobody was in the Times explaining that Scots who would not vote for him were Scottish bigots, who would not vote for an English FM. Leonard left out the Scottish bigot but you know he means it.
Vote SLab or you’re a Scottish bigot, should make for interesting next snap UKOK general election/First Minister Leonard nobody campaigning.
Here’s that Mackena Saturday Herald thing, it goes paywall after 5 views here so, get ready for a toryboy rag mention of Wings over Scotland. How many times will the WoS blogger ever be seen on any BBC or ITV politics show, is not consider here, shock. Its for toryboys only, msm broadcasting.
Odd photo of oooooooold Jeremy Corbyn and Leonard nobody, at a podium…
By aligning himself with Jeremy Corbyn’s message, Richard Leonard has wisely decoupled the party in Scotland from the passive attitudes that forced many supporters to flee to the SNP.
43 comments
ONE of the most persistent axioms in Scotland’s mainstream publishing outlets is that the new media platforms which proliferated in the slipstream of the 2014 independence referendum campaign must be disparaged. These were generally viewed as untutored brigands, rough as a badger’s fundament and regarded as emblematic of how nasty and divisive the referendum had become. Three (Wings Over Scotland, Bella Caledonia and Common Space) have endured to become the Yes movement’s most authentic barometers of Scottish Nationalist thinking and support.
The daily readership of each stands comparison with the mainstream media publications and, without them, the Yes vote would not have travelled from 28% to 45% in less than two years. Those of us among the so-called mainstream commentariat who have been taken to task by Wings or Bella have too often reacted with ad hominem attacks of our own. If only they could play nicely and abide by the rules, we’d plead.
Instead they persistently refused to kick the ball out of play when one of our players was down and injured. We really had no cause to complain, though. Many of us had spent our entire careers in a bubble, protected from the barbs of incandescent readers by kindly Letters Editors who acted as gate-keepers of our newspapers to ensure we sensitive souls rarely had to encounter anything other than mild criticism. When the levee broke with the advent of social media there was a lot of pent-up anger on the part of those whom we had deemed too unruly to join our private glee club.
As the pattern of ownership of the national titles remains overwhelmingly Unionist it was only to be expected that much of the frustration found willing homes in pro-independence sites. It wasn’t so much the Word made Flesh but the word off the leash. My thoughts on this are that most of us are paid handsomely to eviscerate politicians and public servants and thus are hardly in a position to object too much when we are slaughtered in return. In the words of the great US song-writing trio Van Halen, Van Halen and Roth we ought instead “to roll with the punches and get to what’s real”.
Characteristic of Scottish Labour’s dismal failures of leadership and strategy during the past few years was its Gadarene rush to condemn the Nationalist social media warriors and attempt to link them with the SNP leadership. Under its last few leaders the party had forgotten that it was only by being loud and irascible that it had first made itself heard when challenging social injustice, an issue that does not lend itself to meekness and calm reflection. Rather than produce anything resembling a sustainable policy of their own they allowed themselves to become detached from their roots by wrapping themselves in the Union flag. It didn’t get them very far; indeed they went into reverse and were soon passed by the gleeful Scottish Tories who couldn’t believe how acquiescent their former sworn enemies had become in promoting the Union at any cost. Now though, a week before its national conference in Dundee, the Labour Party in Scotland at last appears to have learned some of the bitter lessons of the past 10 years. There is even a new social media platform called Red Robin which seems eager to give a voice to the party’s Left, a grouping which, until recently, had been treated with some disdain and suspicion by Scottish Labour chiefs. I’m not sure it will ever become as rebarbative as Wings Over Scotland (though I hope it does) but it’s made a solid start nonetheless.
The party under new leader Richard Leonard travels to the City of Discovery in fine fettle and having re-located part of its soul. Mr Leonard has yet to distinguish himself at First Minister’s Questions against Nicola Sturgeon but who has? By aligning himself with Jeremy Corbyn’s message, For the Many Not the Few, he has wisely decoupled the party in Scotland from the benign, passive attitudes that forced many of core supporters to flee to the SNP, giving such succour to Ruth Davidson.
Mr Leonard’s next step is to exert his authority by doing something about the Anas Sarwar problem. Mr Sarwar, who lost out to Mr Leonard in the Scottish leadership election, has not gone quietly. He remains close to Alan Roden, the party’s former director of communications and avowed anti-Corbynite and is blamed by several in Mr Leonard’s inner circle for fomenting tension in the party. Mr Leonard, though, will have been buoyed by the recent upsurge in donations to the party and by the success of grass-roots campaigns such as Period Poverty and ending the SNP’s foolish Offensive Behaviour at Football legislation. These are the building bricks of authentic socialism and are a rebuke to the SNP’s recent descent into gesture politics such as Named Persons, smacking, minimum unit pricing for alcohol and gender-fluidity. All are well-intentioned but are produced in a middle-class bubble that insulates its inhabitants from the far more pressing issues of child poverty, inner-city deprivation and inequality in health and educational attainment. Scottish Labour also heads for Dundee following several polls indicating that it has pushed the Scottish Conservatives into third place. It seems that no amount of appearances on London television panel shows by Ms Davidson can divert attention from political hobgoblins and gargoyles who comprised much of the recent Tory intake at Westminster and in town halls throughout Scotland.
Mr Leonard, though, would do well to ditch the self-pitying tone of his poor, little Englishman act. His recent insistence that he was a victim of anti-English racism during the 2014 referendum is redolent of the faux outrage deployed by one of his predecessors, Jim Murphy. The SNP and the Labour Party in Scotland have been served well by many fine English men and women, as well he knows. Those same voices who are alive to Mr Sarwar’s stratagems would do well to advise their boss to leave the victim narrative behind and stick to what is expected of a real Labour leader: highlighting health and educational inequality on the big stage and making small differences locally.”
A bit O/T, does anyone know of any other political unions of two sovereign countries such as Scotland and England in 1707. And if so, have they worked out for the good. I seem to think that Belgium is a union of Principalities, and as we have seen that led to a lot of conflict. Forgive me as geography and politics are not my strongest subjects, but I am curious.
Mackenna’s coming it as per, Westminster politics is endless liars lying. And then their UK media distils their endless lying for us saps.
BBC r4 Week in Toryboy Politics this morn were very pleasantly fluffing future Prime Minister Rees Mogg, but he was lying like a tory twat right the way through the half hour.
As in, Rees Mogg went on and on about how the EU never gave the UK and Cameron anything at all, when they asked the EU for help to placate the Leavers of teamGB. So its the EU’s fault you see really.
Except EU could not have bent over backwards any further to give UKOK tory creeps anything and everything they demanded.
Oh to be a toryboy, pleasantly fluffed by your beeb gimps on a Saturday morning.
As usual, beeb r4 gimps total SNP blackout continues.
Get your geek on vile seps of future Prime Minister Rees Mogg’s Scotland region.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tbhn3
Tom Newton Dunn of the Sun examines Theresa May’s big speech on Brexit and Jeremy Corbyn’s decision to back a customs union.
The Editor is Peter Mulligan.
They all need those knee guards carpet fitters wear, to get through spectacularly licking Rees Mogg’s arse, they all do really.
heedtracker says:
Oh PLEASE let it come to pass prior to IndyRef2!
I see he is bookies’ favourite for the next one in the job.
As PM he has to be worth an extra 2-3% swing to YES.
@me at 7:05
The ‘dream ticket’ for IndyRef2 would be a very hard trade deal (Canada-esque), with an agreed transition period as a holding pen keeping us EU aligned, and Rees Mogg as PM 🙂
Great cartoon – a propose names can I suggest:
Hamish the Lion, Dewi the Dragon (David) and Ruari the red-headed Leprechaun.
Dave McEwan Hill,
“Ian Brotherhood at 11.13 am
With you completely. I will not be buying the Saturday National that includes the Bella magazine”
But you are The National’s chief lobbyst here, how could you boycott The National? They will sack you.
No long before the most gullible realise that The National is a fake whose only purpose is to milk the most gullible independence supporters.
I heard ‘Grees Fogg’ on the radio t’other morning after John Major’s intervention.
I thought Mr. Major at least made sense when he spoke – more than he had ever done as PM, but ‘Grees-Fogg’ was most unpleasant and damning with his rapid put-down of Major’s view basically saying that he made a hash of things when he was PM and didn’t know what he was talking about now so his remarks were irrelevant.
I thought he was downright rude about John Major, in a very sneering way too.
galamcennalath says:
3 March, 2018 at 7:05 pm
heedtracker says:
future Prime Minister Rees Mogg
Oh PLEASE let it come to pass prior to IndyRef2!
I see he is bookies’ favourite for the next one in the job.
As PM he has to be worth an extra 2-3% swing to YES.
Tis true!
Also, this
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bookmakers-put-scottish-independence-odds-favourite-by-2025-1607566
Commenting on William Hill’s odds Professor John Curtice, a polling expert, said: “It’s not an unreasonable bet, but I don’t think the fact a bookie has made it odds-on favourite means it’s going to happen.
“I can’t tell you what the balance of public opinion will be by then – and it’s sufficiently close that I don’t think anyone can.
“We are living in uncertain times, and I don’t think bookies’ odds change that – other than making people think it might be worth putting money on.”
Prof Curtice gets fcuking everywhere. Are there any other psephologists at all these days in teamGB? no.
BBC Scotland’s lost all non zoomer Scots cred, Leonard nobody will flop, Viceroy Fluffie and the Colonel are going to save this farce union?
I thought he was downright rude about John Major, in a very sneering way too.
Yes but the tories are in a very hot civil war, why we got given Brexit ref1 and now no longer EU citizens.
Its only because of tory msm domination, its not being made a big deal of. Why would they.
@galamcennalath
Omg just did the test and also more left and more libertarian than Ghandi!
No wonder the tories upset us so much.
Stop deluding yourselves about the SNP standing in England.
The SNP vote at the last election in Scotland was 37%, down from 50% previously, with a loss of half a million voters and 23 MPs.
rock back to the usual time I see. You ran off quick last night. So your 2 hour shift has begun.
The National articles were good today unlike the Bella Caledonia designed for who I am not sure. Had to double check who Shafi and Jamieson were. I also tried hard to stay awake as their self congratulating analysis said not a jot other than Corbyn is their saviour. The don’t seem to recognise that in 5 years Corbyn will be gone due to his age if not by a few well placed knifes in his back- by labour.
@Robert Peffers
Hi Robert. Possibly I am, but I can’t help feeling that there’s more going on with the EU’s intentions over Northern Ireland than it appears. Either the UK folds and gives way on an open border between both countries (which then infuriates the DUP, half of England and both Scotland and Wales), or the UK sign a deal that basically makes it nothing more than a vassal state to the EU.
‘From the outset the United Kingdom was a outlier among the European nations and never forget De Gaul’s firm opposition towards the United Kingdom’s membership of a place in Europe’.
Can’t remember if it was Andrew Marr’s book on A History of Modern Britain, but the author noted that De Gaul did want Britain in on the EU from the start …on one condition – that the UK severed all ties with the USA. De Gaul did not want to have Britain at the table but hearing an American voice coming from the British representatives. When Britain refused, De Gaul resigned himself to keeping Britain out. But the way our press have it, it was all De Gaul’s fault because he hated England. The truth was, he didn’t. De Gaul was looking at the bigger picture and feared that if the USA got a foothold at the EU table, then Europe would be signed up to every war going. It was also America’s aim to have influence over the EU (which it failed to do), because to lose influence in Europe would mean that America’s imperial policy would have to recede back over the Atlantic …and well, they couldn’t have that now. So in the end, they would throw the UK the odd bone about the ‘special relationship’ and have the UK become its eyes and ears within the EU. No wonder Washington DC was deeply unhappy at Brexit. Brexit meant that America lost its pet lapdog at the EU table.
As to my earlier post and the fall of the Prussian State. The historian Norman Davies discussed Brirtish foreign policy towards Germany in a chapter in his book Vanished Kingdoms. Davies subtly explained how imperialist Britain could never tolerate another rival in the house (Europe), and therefore were determined to beat them in WW1. After the scare by Hitler through WW2, the determination to remove all Prussian-Brandenburg imperialist intentions from Germany and in greater respect Europe was done intentionally so by Britain by removing the German Royal Family; the German army and navy and the destruction of Prussia completely by removing it from the German map. However, the greatest reprisal by Britain was to remove the Juncker class (nobility) and impose Federalism. In doing so, they removed the entire German Establishment.
That was why I mentioned in my post today as to whether some EU politicians look upon what Britain did to Germany, then look at us (and especially England with its demented vision of itself and the rest of the world, and go ‘it worked there in Germany …maybe it’s high time to do the same to Britain by weakening the Establishment political structures’
It wouldn’t be a bad thing if one ponders on it.
So the resident halfwit calls me an idiot for pointing out that the americans where allowed to have war games in a european members country without the european union saying anything about it, this was ofc a nato thing, but it all just happened to be an american army on or near the border with russia, and our resident halfwit seems to think its ok, cause Poland invited them, now as i have said before, and i will say it again in case the halfwit does not understand, all nato countries are obligated to defend any other member country that is attacked, and russia know’s this little fact of life, and btw, obama hates russia, and he still does to this day, so what was that idiot hoping to gain by doing this, all that did was make russia mistrust america and its aims, does any other halfwit, apart from our resident one here, think that trump or any other american president would have done this when the russians have been so friendly for all these years, what was the point, well my opinion, obama was trying to get the american people to think that the russians are the bad guys and not to be trusted and so obama had to go to Poland to show the american people what a big threat the russians are, and Poland does what america asks, cause Poland knows keeping in with the americans is to its advantage, and btw, Poland and Russia are on very friendly terms and have been for a long time now, why stir a pot that does not need to be stirred
bob not bill
so many halfwits– are you 1/2, 1 or 2? I think you should find out.
Re the SNP presenting candidates south of the Border, just for badness, it would be kinda funny just for the EVEL factor. A Scottish MP potentially barred from representing English voters would be constitutionally interesting.
But it quickly become a distraction from Independence.
If England is so enamoured by SNP integrity and policy, there is nothing to stop them setting up their own party and ideology, enthuse and radicalise the English Remain vote the way UKIP radicalised the Leave vote. Brexit is their problem. It would be a curious dynamic to watch unfold, but preferably from the safety and distance of an independent and disinterested Scotland.
JLT @ 8:10 pm
You write: “… there’s more going on with the EU’s intentions over Northern Ireland than it appears. Either the UK folds and gives way on an open border between both countries (which then infuriates the DUP, half of England and both Scotland and Wales), or the UK sign a deal that basically makes it nothing more than a vassal state to the EU.”
I have no problem with the UK ‘folding’ and giving way on a open border between e.g. NI and the Republic. My concern then is what Scotland needs and must demand – or take. I would not wish to oppose a sensible open border on the island of Ireland – I’d welcome it.
I find your concept of a deal in present circumstances that makes the UK or any part of the UK a ‘vassal state’ (a hugely pejorative term!) to the EU difficult to understand. I find the concept of EU institutions, especially the Parliament, accepting anywhere having the status of a ‘vassal state’ hard to conceive. Is Canada a vassal state of the EU – are EFTA countries vassal states of the EU? Care to elaborate?
I fail to see how the SNP standing candidates in English constituencies could help further the Independence cause.
I could see them winning votes in certain areas and with particular types of voter. The type of voter an SNP candidate is likely to attract is highly unlikely to be a genuine Tory type and much more likely a Liberal/Labour/Green voter currently.
Any votes gained in England by the SNP would come at the expense of these parties and might actually lead to more Tories being elected to Westminster and a bigger majority for them. I can’t see any prospect of the SNP winning even one seat, more likely a lot of lost deposits costing them money plus what they would have to spend to advertise their new candidates.
This for me would be far from ideal and also any chance of a coalition in a hung parliament between the SNP and anyone except the Tories is greatly reduced.
For these reasons it’s not something I see any benefit in doing.
Robert Peffers
Just had to give you a mention by name, not all wars are in europe maybe you have not noticed what’s going on in Syria, maybe your so busy writing all the statistics down for us that you don’t have time for anything else, i personally just scroll by long winded mind numbing posts like yours, so do me and others a favour, when i post you can just keep silent, you and the Mac seem to be a double act of disrespect and i am sure other people on wings do not want this kind of thing, so from now on, i will not react to your stupid comments about me, cause to be quite honest, your boring with your book length posts, and i am sure quite a few here silently agree with me.
Sorry Mr Rev, i will just ignore the people who get personal, respect for another person is important, you might not agree with me, but calling me an idiot and saying i write pish is not the way to get respect back, so i will just say sorry for going down to their level of debate, it will not happen again, i am a very nice person really, but i let my standards slip a bit when replying to certain people, who will not be named in the future.
Robert Peffers
Your a windbag, and a disrespectful one at that, do not reply to my posts there’s a good chap.
I can never understand, why a person like you takes the time to tell me i write pish, is your sorry little life so boring, hardly anyone replies to your posts, awww diddums are you lonely
Hamish 100
Does your name refer to your haircut, stick to the day job, cause comedy is certainly not your forte
I will ignore the disrespectful people here, its getting tedious now, i hope they ignore me and i will do as i have been doing until they started their pointless crap, ignore them
Ian Brotherhood @ 16:23,
I finally got round to reading that article in Bella, Ian, and I can fairy easily dissect what it was that I anyway reacted against.
It starts off fairly enough by positing various dilemmas that we have all well recognised, but it starts running aground as soon as it gets to Corbyn.
The very visible underlying assumption is that indy was about not much more than a rebellion against austerity and now Corbyn the Hero has changed everything.
Well, I don’t know what circles Shafi and Jamieson moved in back then, but I never saw any visible signs of support from trade unions either then or now.
Their self-righteous leftist exceptionalism is transparent. Whereas it’s not at all clear that their hero is actually in the ascendancy in England, let alone Scotland. Brexit alone (never mind other issues such as Trident) seems to be exposing his hypocrisy, indecision and political cowardice very easily.
Their class-warrior arrogance continues unabated though with a trivial dismissal of the case for arguing maximal continuity as a way of winning over likely converts and continues with a neo-Marxist snipe:
Oh, never mind independence, we’ve got to have some Great Political Theory.
Apparently the SNP’s crimes are to “pit movements against each other” (something that the Bella crew know quite a lot about) and to pursue independence in alliance “only” with the wider yes movement, whereas in the authors’ eyes the “solution” is to take lots and lots of time to build alliances with leftists down south.
Jeez. As if Corbyn and his English radicals have any interest whatever in supporting our independence! How stupid can you get?
No wonder any true indy supporter could get quite agitated reading this
gufftransparent pitch for watered-down leftist neo-Unionism.Bill not Ben :8:58
Why pick on Robert Peffers for accusing of you of “writing pish” when it’s so obvious to all.
Kindest regards
me @ 21:11,
That should of course be “fairly easily”.
It’s not me that’s away with the fairies (I hope)!
“finally got round to reading that article in Bella, Ian, and I can fairy easily dissect what it was that I anyway reacted against.”
Just been reading it. Quite lazy journalism which is a pity.
Fails to talk about the GE result for the SNP maybe being down to the fact that they actally played down indy and didn’t get the vote out.
Corbyn described as anti war – but failure to mention hes pro nuke and the fact that he should be miles ahead in the polls.
Steven McKenzie @ 9.12
Well said…
heedtracker @ 18:47,
So the Great McKenna writes:
Whit? It seems that when McKenna writes for The Herald he can’t help but occasionally lose his marbles and write delusional clap-trap like this. What a great parliamentary triumph that was. Once upon a time his pals were in power and they aspired to strive harder to tackle the cancer in our midst that is sectarianism. Now they depend on it to get elected!
“Authentic socialism” bollocks. Leonard whatsisname is a NorthBritLab patsy who is even less memorable than his hypocritical puppetmaster Corbyn, and won’t do any more for their Northern Accounting Unit than the hapless Murph (or any of the others) did.
Better to realise that right now than waste another generation or two finding out the hard way, as we had to do.
B’n’B
I don’t normally do this but back off, you nasty, bullying drop of termite crap. How can you be so low and so vile?
I’ll let you get back to nodding to yourself in complete agreement about how right you always are.
Robert J Sutherland @ 9.11
That’s exactly how I read that article too.
I was also thinking that it doesn’t address the asset striping that’s been going on since 2014.
Westminster either try to rule it or wreck it….and we don’t have 10+ year’s to play nice.
Especially when the constraints of EU membership are removed.
Liz Rannoch @ 9.38
Mibbi ye should consider doing it more often Liz…
Ye do,do,it,really well.
@Robert J. Sutherland
I wouldn’t depend on those like McKenna to progress the independence cause, he’s another ‘only on my terms’ type of supporter. Could easily flip back to unionist if he thought that Corbyn would bring his Utopian dream.
On another topic I see TSTV is to broadcast Holyrood FMQ’s live, if only they had the budget to present a unbiased post FMQ’s analysis with commentators not from the MSM.
@Robert J Sutherland: long ago I decided Mr McKenna will write whatever is required, depending on which paper he’s writing for.
For all he has written in the past very lucrative years, I struggle to remember a single example of a kind word for the SG/SNP.
He’s basically hard-core BLiS______d with an anti-secular twist.
Liz g @ 21:39,
That last sentence of yours is especially apposite, Liz.
What trollster BnB and the batsh*t mental Eurohaters who regularly get all those green-ink letters in The National fail to realise is that for 40-odd years the EU, for all its evident faults, has actually been our faithful servant and protector within the UK. It has given us funding that we would never have received from London on its own, for example.
Its management of shared resources has attracted a lot of hate propaganda, but the truth is that it has been respectful of us within the rules. Who can say that with any confidence after a powergrab by London? A UKGov that even now is signalling that it will happily trade off fishing rights with the EU27 for other interests of importance to England alone.
Once the UKGov get through Brexit, they will turn their undivided attention on us with a vengeance. We just can’t afford to wait.
Trolls are such gutless snivelling lonely little cowards aren’t they? they know they’re not welcome but keep going because they think they’re protected by the internet (you’re not yknow)
In real life folk would walk away from them or the room would empty of decent people or somebody would slap them for interfering in other normal peoples conversations but because of the Internet here they are
Maybe it’s a sexual thing for them, Eeeow mingin!
So Kezia Dugdale has broken ranks and wants to stay in the European single market.
Well, she knows exactly how to achieve that! Scotland can choose its own path. Are you up for it Kezia?
http://archive.is/LtgNM
“These are the building bricks of authentic socialism”, they’ve only had a hundred years or more to get it right.
I can see desperate people in England voting Labour, then Corbyn et al pottering around with trying to nationalise industries they have no money to nationalise while the raging destruction of Brexit swirls all around.
I think people don’t yet understand it isn’t just the financial cost Brexit that will hit, all the benefits that young Europeans have will be lost to the young in England.
@ Bill not Ben
It’s neither Bill nor Ben.
It’s definitely Dick.
A blatantly obvious British Nationalist one at that.
Liz G @ 9.45
Ah thank you Liz.
I don’t comment a lot on here, but I get sick of the thread wreckers on here. When it commented about Robert Peffers like that I got angry. Our son was badly bullied due to Aspergers. Political differences are one thing but when it gets personal that’s a red line as far as I’m concerned.
Robert J. Sutherland
Hard to argue with that. He’s a tory, hates real change like a true blue or red tory yoon can and that’s it really.
UK hackdom’s real power is just not telling us what’s actually going on, in catchy sound bites.
Its now 2018, these vile yoons just come across as old and desperate tories, absolutely determined to stop Scots building a Norway 2.0 and worse, Leaving England behind.
Its that simple.
They shit their UKOK kecks at just the thought of a thriving Scotland and an England in Brexit decline.
That’s not how England First brainwashing has worked throughout our lifetimes. Scotland a crappy UK region, they need England, its England only that knows the way.
The Welsh get much the same treatment but nothing is written in stone, future of Scotland or England wise.
Frankie Boyle
@frankieboyle
Amusing that Conservatives who fought bitterly against Scottish Independence could well allow a united Ireland with a shrug so that their mates can get rid of regulations that keep shit out of beef burgers
10:19 am · 28 Feb 2018
Wasting our time replying to that thick dip of bullshit. Clearly some sort of comprehension difficulties and a nasty piece of work to boot. Though there are clues that he’s been on before under a different name?
Do you mean Captain Colon Alexander? When he/she starts with the being disrespected shite it kind of gives the game away, as that line was used to me a few times when I called him/her a fud
@K1,
Agreed. Two different sets of vocabulary and two writing styles under one name
K1 @ 22:20,
Had the same impression. It always ends up as “me, me, me”.
O/T C’mon folk vote for Nicola and Mhari by clicking on the box on the right of their names. https://news.sky.com/story/vote-who-is-britains-most-influential-woman-11274648
The wreckers who come on here to talk pish to provoke a response are becoming far too successful.
Notice how they usually appear one at a time, rarely two, but never more.
The objective is clearly to disrupt, not to make serious points or to have discussion. They don’t need numbers to disrupt. They don’t want to talk to each other.
Just watched Ian Paisley Jr in HOC devolution committee trying to put pressure on Karen Bradley (the new Tory Sec of State) to engage more with America to put pressure on the Republic and convince them that staying with the EU will cost them 1 and a half billion Euro more after the UK leaves EU
In her reply Karen Bradley had a slip of the tongue when she referred to *The Catholics* then quickly rephrased to *The Nationalists*
None of this is going to end well if the Tories both red and blue are allowed to con the public with the shit they’re up to
stewartb says
I find your concept of a deal in present circumstances that makes the UK or any part of the UK a ‘vassal state’ (a hugely pejorative term!) to the EU difficult to understand.
Hi Stuart. Simply this. If the UK strikes a deal with the EU, it will be one where the EU will set all the terms of how trade will be conducted. Having gone from being an equal partner within the richest trading entity in the world, Brexit will turn the UK more into a vassal state where we will no longer have a say, let alone a voice that will influence the corridors within Brussels. New laws passed in the EU Parliament will have to be accepted by Westminster as well as the law courts here in the UK, and there won’t be anything we can do to really stop it. To refuse would see trade affected by sanctions imposed on us by not only the EU, but also the EU’s overseas partners.
That is what I mean by ‘vassal state’. The idea that we are ‘taking back control’ is an absolute myth. Some may debate that we never had control while in the EU, but at least we had a big voice and a vote. After Brexit, that voice will be much diminished, if not silent, while the vote will be taken away within the negotiating rooms of Brussels. Westminster and to a degree, Whitehall, along with the courts within these lands will somehow have to accept the brave new world that will be imposed on us where we are nothing more than a servant rather than having been an equal.
Robert J Sutherland @ 9.58
Well yes Robert… The History of our relationship with the EU is as far as we are allowed to know ( pre internet especially) a relatively fair one.
I take the view that we must look to the history of thing’s to learn…..otherwise where else could we look?
And our history of being in — Treaty Arrangements — with the EU,while no perfect, seems to me to be,”no bad”
Westminster on the other hand!!
A pet “Theory” of mine to explain why Westminster is doing all this is….
The UK needed to join the EU to stay afloat…. Or so they thought….
They hadn’t really realised at that point the value of the N Sea.
When the penny finally dropped, they worked out that they didn’t need the EU after all.
They couldn’t have an oil fund and plead poverty about their contributions to the EU.
It wasn’t just us that they were hiding it from.
Now they can no longer hide it,because Norway ( who didn’t join),are thriving….so the group who felt that the oil rich UK was being “ham strung” by the EU,and not getting its proper place on the world stage like Saudi, was allowed to flourish.
I suspect that Westminster,want to be exactly that, Europe’s largest oil producer,but on their own term’s.
They couldn’t keep the wealth under wraps much longer…
And Westminster don’t share!
I could be wrong… Of course I could…. But is half the world no fighting over the stuff??and we are allegedly floating in it….time will tell.
@RJS (9.11) –
Good to hear your thoughts on that piece.
I would love to see Shafi, Boyd (or anyone of their choosing) in an open public debate against someone like Peter Bell, Paul Kavanagh, perhaps even Lesley Riddoch?
In a healthy democracy such a debate would be possible. But we don’t have one, so it isn’t.
Perhaps invitations could be sent and, depending on the response, Independence Live could stage it?
Just a thought, but I’m pretty sure we could predict the response…
🙁
@Hamish
I think 2 x 1/2s make a’hole in his case.
‘Agreed. Two different sets of vocabulary and two writing styles under one name
Ayep Bob.
Seriously there cannot two different people who ‘speak’ in the exact same way…even all the ‘points’ are familiar.
But what’s really sad and disturbing is that having been rumbled before he/she keeps coming back on under a different guise…even the grammar has all the hallmarks of someone ‘trying’ to come across as someone else?
And the personal attack on Robert…hmmm…now why would a brand new commenter think it’s okay to come on here and disrespect Robert Peffers immediately?
Ace !
Nicola is in the lead on the sky news poll
On most influential UK woman.
Will sky either cheat and manufacture Queenie votes,
Or just bury Nicola’s victory under another snow story??
I’d like to know who at Sky chose the pictures for each candidate?
Every picture used, other than Nicola’s and Mairhi’s were posed for,
While theirs has been taken mid sentence to give an un natural expression.
Psychological propagand like this was also used in 1930’s Germany.
Same game, different facists!
O/T
Details of WINGERS NIGHT OUT social gathering in Otters Head, Woodside, Glenrothes, on 7TH April now posted over on off topic page. Transport and accommodation details also included.
Jings! The Sun poll link just above.
Queenie was well ahead a wee while ago but…very quickly since
Sturgeon 5K votes and Queenie with 4K votes shurley shome mistake! 🙂
————————————————————-
Remember that BBC thing, vote on the most important battle in ‘British’ history when Bannockburn shot to the top of the list overnight…what happened to the programme the was supposed to be made on it? Nothing!
@Liz Rannoch
Well done 🙂
Partying it up n down wae Dixie n people.
Everyone’s invited to a…
Free Scotland.
Sex party.
XXX.
O/T
Latest details of WINGERS SOCIAL GET TOGETHER now posted on off topic page. The wingdingaling is being held in the Otters Head in Woodside Glenrothes on 7th April with lots of stuff going on. Hope to see you there.
UK government and Oil Monoliths and their lies exposed. Scots for goodness sake take heed. Next time vote “Yes” and get the revenues back
https://caltonjock.com/2014/08/28/commercial-secret-revealed-by-the-chief-executive-of-the-royal-society-of-chemistry-oil-and-gas-will-be-extracted-from-scottish-waters-for-100-years/
JLT @ 10:36 pm
Re- references to a ‘vassal state’, many thanks for your response. Is there not some conflation of issues here?
One the one hand, Canada and South Korea which have substantive Free Trade Agreements with the EU – and have to conform along with the EU to negotiated rules and regulations (which the EU MAY have had the upper hand in framing) – are hardly ‘vassal states’.
Norway and the other EFTA countries choose to accept their status in the EEA – essentially rule-takers – as part of a national cost/benefit assessment which they can at any time opt out of. I don’t regard Norway as a ‘vassal state’.
Out of the EU, the UK wants to establish a new trading relationship with the EU – but it will not be better than the one it has at present. But as with Canada and South Korea, it will not be a ‘vassal state’.
And the UK will no doubt wish to form free trade agreements with most of the very many countries it already enjoys VIA its EU membership – it remains to be seen whether these new relationships are better (and better for whom in the UK) that the UK has already. Does this make any of them vassal states?
And the UK may wish to conclude a FTA with countries that the EU does not presently have such an Agreement. Whether it will get a better deal (and for whom in the UK) than it could get by negotiating as part of the EU also remains to be seen.
The UK may well end up strictly with more ‘control’ but to what net benefit? The only vassal NATION I spot in all of this is Scotland!
John Young says:
3 March, 2018 at 10:30 pm
O/T C’mon folk vote for Nicola and Mhari by clicking on the box on the right of their names
Prime Minister May-449 votes
First Minister Sturgeon-54,000 votes
Sounds about right then:D
Tbf, the Maybot is more influential than JK Trolling, 441 votes.
yesindyref2 says:
3 March, 2018 at 10:39 pm
@Hamish
I think 2 x 1/2s make a’hole in his case
A big hole or a wee one?
call me dave @ 11.09
Thanks, calming down a bit now! My more usual posts are like:
Remember everybody – Nicola on Peston on Sunday at 10.00am STV – reply to maybot’s speech.
@stewartb
LOL …okay. Rather than ‘vassal’, I’ll go with ‘client state’.
Still believe that the UK will be the lesser negotiator when it comes to striking details. How that goes down with Brexiteers …well, that’s their problem.
Right …am off to bed. Enjoy the rest of your evening Stewart. Cheers again
Voted for Nicola. They can’t even get her name right.It is spelled STURGOEN. Swedish ?
Dr Jim at 1034pm,
That’ll be the Ian Paisly jar. who campaigned hard for brexit, shouts loudly that Ulster is British, then tells his voters that due to brexit, they should all make sure they get their IRISH passport from Dublin.
Aye, that’s the DUP for you. British forever, but happy to take their free Irish (EU) passport.
@call me dave (11.09) –
FFS!
Well remembered there.
That was a dramatic episode right enough, and it’ll still be in the record, no denying it.
😉
Liz g @ 22:37,
It’s interesting to speculate on the motivations of the “Britain-Firsters”.
I reckon that May’s personal “bee-in-bonnet” stems from her time in the Home Office and an intense dislike of the ECJ. We have somewhat forgotten that she is a control freak with a penchant for state snooping on an industrial scale, and wants to be able to eject anyone at any time on a whim. (Look at what the Home Office are about these days – a new Highland Clearances.)
I have a very strong suspicion though that the main motive for the hardline Tory EUseps – and one that is got 180-degrees about face by the ultra-leftists, trolls and letter-writers – is that what they are most afraid of is the steadily-increasing financial regulation coming down the pike from Brussels.
They want to continue with their clever tax dodging schemes and the EU is beginning to seriously cramp their style. So much for their myth of the EU as the capitalists’ paradise. That’s what the BritNats want – a Brexitannia free to trash all the personal rights and environmental protection stuff and revert to raw freebooting capitalism and full-on financial jiggery-pokery.
Silently supported by ultra-leftists like Corbyn. Ironic or what?!
John Young at 10.30
Can’t find anyway to vote on this.
@Dave McEwan Hill
Click on the button with number of votes next to the persons name on the first line of each woman.
Has the darling of the far right beer kellers The Ruthsfuhrer got many votes ?
Hahaha First Minister now has 40% more votes than the Queen, 400% more votes than Thatcher and 1600% more votes than Theresa May 🙂
To save you looking in case you might have missed it, vote here.
https://news.sky.com/story/vote-who-is-britains-most-influential-woman-11274648
Scot F – the poll’s on Sky’s website. There are 100 women listed. The truthless one isn’t on it.
So far oor Nic’s at #1 with 8.7k votes. Mhairi Black’s at #4 with 2.4k votes, Thatcher’s just behind with 2.3k votes. Maybot is #13 with 561, behind Jakey Rowling at # 11 with 608 votes. Not all listed are politicians though.
Sturgeon at 9k votes, queen at 6.4k.
I put a random one in for Fanny Cradock as well just for the fun of it!
I hope the FM straps on her tomb raider guns tomorrow and throws down on the May gang
Thank you Robert Peffers @ 11.12am
For reminding me that the EU was originally set up to help prevent us ever falling into war again =)
This is easily forgotten when we are focused on trade deals and rules and laws.
All the more reason to keep the faith.
Thinking of you =)
Popped in my vote for oor Nicola =)
Who else ?!!
Chris, yet another brilliant cartoon =)
Please please let these become posters!!
Love that Hamish’s pals have made an appearance 🙂
What’s the betting that the ‘poll’ will have been doctored before Wednesday!!?
Wow. That was difficult who to vote for. Tits Mone wasn’t on the list so really disapointed , why no hard hitters and thinkers Sky?.Thought about lending my vote to Baroness Blood, cause she looked like Ronnie Barker. Then i spotted Fanny Craddock , a 1950/60s porn star her name is just not right but really loved her hat.
Anent the top 100 women, searched in vain for Arlene Foster & Ruth Davidson!
Will still take the National on Saturdays, supposing they include a copy of the Scottish Field. Good to see William Hill has Scottish Independence odds-on favourite! That’ll disappoint some clowns on Wings!
Sensible wasn’t on the list.
Watched a wee bit of May on Marr. Gave up. What is this fiasco in aid of?
They’ve insisted they want to cherry pick all along and that won’t happen.
I read the other day it all amounts to ‘they want the extensive rights of a Norway deal with the few responsibilities of a Canada deal.’ To safeguard the integrity of the single market that is exactly what they will never get.
So, when will they openly except that?
My suspicion is, it’s all a ruse to blame the unreasonable foreigners when it turns sour.
The Bbc Marr programme. I hope the Snp and MSP’s watched the Irish deputy Prime Minister deal with Marr’s interview technique. Firm and polite and the best bit for me was where he told Marr not to quote him over something he didn’t say. Attack is the best form of defence. Interestingly should Stranraer area set up a “tourist or visitor tax for goods and people” to get some revenue from Ireland and to level up the playing field. Thereby stopping the DUP supporters benefitting from special trade options. What the Tories ain’t proposing is all nations and principalities are equal.
Watched a wee bit of May on Marr. Gave up. What is this fiasco in aid of?
Brainwashing England to enjoy Brexit Means Brexit, not actually meaning Brexit Means Brexit at all.
Astonishing beeb gimp party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party like this one, in a one party state.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43277176
Where is the link to vote on the Sky poll? Doesn’t seem to be on the page where the article is.
…after watching Marr this morning I’m thinking of going beyond Irish Citizenship and actually moving to Ireland.
The Irish deputy PM represents the type of confidence in your nation that should be the norm. Unfortunately we have far too many ScotsBUTs. I don’t think I can finish my days under Westminster rule!
Came across something that needs explaining this morning.
ITV, looking online at some interviews. Then I noticed News
in your area list, so assuming I could get the latest Scottish news.
There are all english regional areas, but no Scottish listing,
what is there is ” The border region” on looking at that I find it talks about things in Scottish Borders and Cumbria in the same breath.
This is not good enough, omitting “Scotland” is outrageous.
Really sick of the english anti Scottish propaganda, which is all this can be.
@JLT says: 3 March, 2018 at 8:10 pm:
Hi Robert. Possibly I am, but I can’t help feeling that there’s more going on with the EU’s intentions over Northern Ireland than it appears.
Actually you are making, in a slightly different for, the same points I make but you interpret them differently.
For example you detail De Gaul’s motives as his personal objections to the UK as being the UK as the USA’s voice at the EU’s internal upper table. Whereas I see it as De Gaul representing the entire EU’s view of the UK as a potential representative of the USA sitting at the EU top table.
The fact is that, on an international basis, Westminster, (all Westminster unionist parties), are as one with the USA. Their viewpoint is as one with the USA to the extent that the Tories are obviously aiming to sell off what remains of the UK’s family silver to the Yanks. Labour and LibDems are aiding and abetting them in that venture.
The USA, a country that fought a war of independence against Westminster, (and won it), are no friends of Wales, Ireland and Scotland or indeed other than the wealthy in the UK who have more than doubled their personal wealth while subjecting the rest of us to Austerity Measures. They cannot, “All be in this together”, while there are homeless on our streets, working families needing food banks and benefit seekers being sanctioned.
My entire viewpoint is based upon the fact that the EU said at the very start that the UK would have to accept all the EU’s basic freedoms or there could be no deal. The UK are, even yet, ignoring that fact but the EU hasn’t changed its stance since day one. The very fact that these numpties see the United Kingdom’s formal request to leave the EU as the, “BRITISH EXIT”, when sane people can see that it is only the United Kingdom part of Britain that will leave demonstrates their blinkered and short sighted view of the situation. These people are delusional – the United Kingdom is a two partner KINGDOM – yet they see it as a unified single country. A two partner Kingdom yet they have split it up as four countries but with only three of those countries with an elected as such parliament of their country and they ignore the fact that Scotland is not just a country but the Kingdom of England’s only partner in a UNITED KINGDOM. Thus Westminster has made itself the, unelected as such, Parliament of the country of England and it uses EVEL to enforce the Country of England’s Parliament’s will upon the three subservient countries under Westminster control. Its all a confidence trick but these people believe they are right.
The EU and the SG/SNP know differently and neither has changed their views since even before the UK wanted out.
Aye Robert,
It is a confidence trick, but until the people in Scotland wake up to this fact (or more than 50% do, at least), then this constitutional confidence trick will continue to work quite well for them.
There’s nought we can do until the people wake up (or we wake them up). 🙂
You do realise that
ifwhen the Scottish Continuity Bill is challenged in the Supreme Court, that a huge issue is going to be made of that fact that the 55% NO vote in 2014 indicates that a majority of Scotland accepted the current constitutionalconarrangement as acceptable? Difficult to argue otherwise, I’m afraid. 🙁@Brian Poell 10.20 – here’s the link:
https://news.sky.com/story/vote-who-is-britains-most-influential-woman-11274648
Nicola now 5.8 k ahead of Brenda W and Mhairi Black has pushed Diana into 4th place.
I don’t have a clue what the cartoons about? Who is the guy hanging from his feet?
Luigi
Disagree with you 55% of the folk voting NO did so in the clear knowledge that Scotland would remain in the EU. Difficult to argue otherwise I would say.
Luigi says:
4 March, 2018 at 11:00 am
‘You do realise that if when the Scottish Continuity Bill is challenged in the Supreme Court, that a huge issue is going to be made of that fact that the 55% NO vote in 2014 indicates that a majority of Scotland accepted the current constitutional con arrangement as acceptable? ‘
Id have thought that the 55% vote was a vote FOR the status quo, ie the devolution settlement, which is now under threat.
And James Wolff says, if our Continuity Bill is illegal, so is their Withdrawal Bill. If the Supreme Court finds against the Continuity Bill, surely there could then be a court case against the Withdrawal Bill?
@Luigi,
The referendum result in 2014 will not be relevant to the Continuity Bill if challenged. The case will be about what was in the Scotland Act. Nothing more nothing less.
It will not even go to issues of sovereignty.
The Scotland Act was very clear.If not reserved then devolved.
What may be relevant is if the Westminster crew try to use Henry 8 powers to change the Scotland Act. That would then focus minds on Sovereignty which by the way you cannot give away.
@ Richard, that would be John Bull mebbes?
Got round to reading the Bella Mag, like the curate’s egg it’s good in parts. Excellent piece on Douglas Water & Cameron MacNeish on Knoydart is good, Sgritheall is a swine of a hill though.
The offending article, “Independent Futures!” is pretentious shite, Ruth Davidson fought the General Election on another Scottish Referendum & lost, despite our inevitable losses.
Clootie at 10.28
You echo what I sometimes feel. With an Irish grandmother I can get an Irish passport and citizenship.
@Hamish100
@Luigi
In 2014 NO voters had the ‘certainty’ of a UK in the EU, ‘convincing’ promises of DevoMax, the likelihood of a Labour win in the coming general election, and more to sway them.
The UK they voted for never materialised and has in fact moved off at a tangent.
If the 2014 result actually ever meant anything, BritNats themselves have erased that.
It is an awfully shuggly peg for BritNats to now base any assertions about what Scots want.
Im jealous of you people getting Irish passports! I have some Irish ancestry but its too long ago to be of any use 🙁
@Luigi
If the Continuity bill is challenged in the UK Supreme court the issue at challenge is the Scotland act in relation to devolution and it’s interpretation as laid down by the UK Guv
In effect the UK would be challenging the text of its own agreement and do they want to risk judges ruling against them in those circumstances
I would suggest if the UK proceed with a legal case it’s merely another delaying tactic and as likely to be dropped if they can kick it far enough down the road till after Brexit, but even this may not be enough to win on their part
Unless they’ve bribed the judges, heaven forfend that could ever happen
(Heavily laced sarcasm)
Sensibledave = paid to troll British Nationalist.
The snow must be stopping sensible getting into his work to start trolling. Hope he doesn’t get paid.
@Bill not Ben says: 3 March, 2018 at 8:26 pm:
Totally misinformed pish as usual. You obviously have no concept of how NATO or the UN works or indeed how they are structured. Do you even know what, “Permanent Members”, means and who they are?
For anyone looking for a good site, go to Newsnet.scot, its very good there
Awwwww diddums is on again, must be terrible to be so lonely
Awwwwww diddums is on writing pish again, must be terrible to be so lonely
“ cubbysays @1127” sensibledave posted at 0928 on previous thread where he has been having a late night ding dong battle with yesindyref2 . Must be on “ double time “
It must be very lonely for some people, they think they know it all, they tell the rest of us we talk pish, when we get reams of their rambling that we have heard a million times before elsewhere, not saying that they are wrong, but we really don’t need to read it here every bloody time just so they can see their names here, Alba Gu snooker loopy!
Robert J. Sutherland @ 9.58
“Once the UKGov get through Brexit, they will turn their undivided attention on us with a vengeance. We just can’t afford to wait
Absolutely agree. Just had a vision of the Eye of Mordor turning on Scotland. Can’t unthink it now.
The americans are going to put more tax on european cars, it seems that even the americans are sick of the european union, the german car industry might be about to catch a very bad cold lol
@stewartb says: 3 March, 2018 at 8:36 pm:
(replying to JLT @ 8:10 pm).
“or the UK sign a deal that basically makes it nothing more than a vassal state to the EU.””
The real point is that there is no such thing, nor can there be, a vassal state of the EU. The reason being that each EU member state has a veto. Which, of course, also punctures and deflates the oft claimed lie that Greece is forced to accept the EU austerity style restrictions. As Greece is a member state and thus has a veto then Greece mast have acceded and agreed to accept the conditions asked for by the EU.
Just as the Westminster Establishment claims of ,
BritainThe UK being forced to accept such idiotic claims as, “straight bananas”, and other idiotic claims. The EU, all of it including the UK, accepted rules made to improve the standards of all commodities, (including fruit). Westminster had a veto and, by not using it, cannot claim to have been forced to accept EU dictation.Unlike Scotland, Wales or N.I. must accept English dictatorial decisions within the, “UK government”,(sic), that due to the ratios of members per country, EVEL and the fact that Westminster is the, (unelected as such), de facto parliament of the country of England, have no veto and thus England/Westminster does exactly as it likes.
Ruth Davidson blustering her way through gentle prodding by Brewer on Sunday Politics Scotland..!
Even gentle poking has shown her up as a useless chancer.
Losing the Holyrood majority = no mandate for indyref…!!
A referendum is decided by the 2 governments agreeing on having one !!
Oh wait…she got one thing right…
“Are you going to be PM “?
Ruthie..”NO” !!!
Proof that even a broken clock is right sometimes..
Politics Scotland – shouty mouthy lying like a mad fakir – won’t shut up. God she’s unbelievable!
It’s baaack! Obviously it didn’t read my post last night.
@ Robert Peffers – please don’t.
Bill not Ben its not often your right but your wrong again.
… German carmakers build cars for the American market in the USA
And finally…BBC have decided to blame the SNP for the bad weather !!
Scummy bastards.
@ Bill not Ben
…now I’m starting to feel sorry for you!
Sunday Politics Scotland just another Tory political broadcast,all the SNPS fault even the snow and Brewer spouting Jackie Burd saying FM blamed the HGs drivers.
Scumbags all of them.
@Bill not Ben says: 3 March, 2018 at 8:58 pm:
“Robert Peffers
Your a windbag, and a disrespectful one at that, do not reply to my posts there’s a good chap.”
Hilarious! Absolutely hilarious! Seems I have struck a nerve there.
“I can never understand”
Oh! I get that you don’t understand – – anything.
“… why a person like you takes the time to tell me i write pish,”
Well then, perhaps you may understand this, (though I very much doubt it). Perhaps the reason is simply that what you comment is indeed pish.
“… is your sorry little life so boring, hardly anyone replies to your posts, awww diddums are you lonely”
Assuming, of course, as you do, that I have a sorry little life, which I don’t.
Furthermore, There is no rules that say anyone has to reply to anyone else’s comments. They are comments. a.k.a. (I quote from the Dictionary):-
comment – noun: comment; plural noun: comments.
1. a verbal or written remark expressing an opinion or reaction.
Example – “you asked for comments on the new proposals”.
synonyms: remark, observation, statement, utterance, pronouncement, judgement, reflection, opinion, view, criticism.
verb:- comment; 3rd person present: comments; past tense: commented; past participle: commented; gerund or present participle: commenting.
Unlike the fact that on Wings there is only one person with the right to tell a commenter not to comment on Wings and that person is neither Bill nor Ben.
starlaw says:
Indeed. BMWs are built in South Carolina.
That is why Japanese cars are built in the EU for the European market.
And that is also why they will move production away from the UK into the EU if Brexit goes over the cliff. If there is a Trade Deal, although we aren’t actually past Phase 1 yet, it will be Canada style which will cover manufacted goods i.e. cars.
People use the car industry as an example of European trade with its multinational supply chains, but in reality a deal to allow this to continue is a very low bar to jump. It doesn’t need customs union, Three quarters of the UK economy and over half of exports, are services not goods. There are bigger issues at stake.
@Bill not Ben says:3 March, 2018 at 9:06 pm:(Replying to Hamish 100).
“I will ignore the disrespectful people here, its getting tedious now, i hope they ignore me.”
Congratulations, Bill not Ben, on your first, non-pish, comment on Wings.
Perhaps Bill and Ben have been at the Little Weed.
Keep up the good work Mr Peffers.
BREXIT.
THE TORIES AT WAR AGAIN!
“Tory hopes of uniting the party behind Theresa May’s latest vision for Brexit faded as former deputy prime minister Michael Heseltine dismissed her latest speech as just more “phrases, generalisations and platitudes” which had done nothing to make a deal more likely…….”
“……It set out the cherries that Britain wants to pick but that approach completely ignores the fact that the EU has said, ‘sorry there is no cherry picking’.”
“….. We’ve gone from the fastest growing to the slowest growing economy in Europe and made a Horlicks of the Irish border”.
From the Guardian.
Dr Jim on 3rd March at 2.14 pm wrote:
“In 1707 I cannot believe that when the people who took the decision to sell Scotland into this Union with England ever suspected this would be the result, for if they did they would surely have suspected their names would go down in historical infamy for ever committing such a crime against a people”.
As comments are coming in faster than I can read them, let me say that so far I haven’t found a single one mentioning the financing of all this, bar one on needing to run one’s own billboard company so the owners won’t censor it. The “tiny” point Dr Jim didn’t mention was the foundation of the Bank of England in 1694, which institutionalised the goldsmith’s fraud whereby around ten times as much paper money could be issued as there was gold in the bank. (In the “Glorious Revolution” of 1688 that had been how the Bank of Amsterdam financed Dutch William’s overthrow of Britain’s Scots King James). In other words, Scotland was exchanged for fraudulent paper money, and Britain’s dominance in wars and industrialisation and creation of the transport infrastructure for mass markets was financed the same way, selling shares of ownership for paper money.
For years the USA rejected this form of banking, but by subterfuge the Federal reserve Bank was created in 1913, World War I followed within a year and (apart from US industry selling arms to both sides) the Bush family bank was closed for bankrolling Hitler. Money as we know it is the root of all evil? The same job can be done with a card system where debts are repaid by our doing what needs doing (which includes all forms of care) and banks merely keep accounts and advise on credit limits.
The problem is that since the EEC became an EU with a Euro and a central bank, Scotland leaving UK for the EU has become “out of the frying pan, into the fire”. The international union of bankers (the IMF, WTO and its Chicago school of economists) are now pulling the European purse strings, and if we think things bad here with our own money, look at what has happened in Greece, Portugal and Eire, with Italy surviving largely by people financing each other. Spain has levels of unemployment worse than we had in our slump and its separatist politicians are locked up in gaols (with no EU complaints, for sure, and a similar dictatorial, anti-separatist Turkey being welcomed in).
I’m an Englishman but as disgusted with Brexit, Macchiavellian politicians and the prostitution of the media as any Scotsman.
I would love to have an SNP political representative I felt able to support, but what worries me is the SNP showing no more signs than the other parties of understanding the need to finance ourselves and make our traders, not the bankers’ representatives now in government, balance their own foreign trade.
Scott says:
4 March, 2018 at 12:18 pm
Sunday Politics Scotland just another Tory political broadcast,all the SNPS fault even the snow and Brewer spouting Jackie Burd saying FM blamed the HGs drivers.
Simple, basic and clear BBC Scotland SNP Out attack propaganda in action. Bare faced beeb gimp lying like is, going to have a huge impact indyref2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gK1elKWZ3I
Humza Yousef did very well against Gordon Brewer.
Quote”Thank you for your expert advice on traffic problems caused by snow, Gordon”
That’s the way to do it.
Sunday politics Scotland this morning on BBC another total disgrace. The Brewer letting his ex BBC colleague R Davidson just talk non stop. They both agree their other ex BBC colleague Sco Parliament Presiding Officer is correct to say Continuity Bill is ultra viries. Brewer then interrogates Transport minister on snow chaos.
BBC is supposed to be objective. It’s not.
Presiding Officer of the Scot Parliament is supposed to be objective. He’s not. He’s a member of Scotland In Union.
Question – why does the Scottish Government allow this to continue?
handclapping says:
3 March, 2018 at 11:33 am:
Send a copy to Plaid.
________
Better yet – do as I and a good many others do: JOIN Plaid AND the SNP!
Ave goat ah bottle of Roundup known to kill weeds works faster on potted plants .
Keep on Keeping on Mr Peffers .
Latest news from the MSN:
Snow chaos in Scotland, children sent home from schools – SNP to blame
Snow begins to melt, children deprived of fun – SNP to blame
Politics Scotland with Tory journalst and ex Tory adviser tells us the UK Guv has clearly said they will block another referendum, now let me be clear, I never heard that ever
And given that Ruth *no surrender* Davidson even though she was once again given a lovely warm massaging interview by Brewer couln’t say that either, but what she did say very very clearly was *Planion Reeble Twinzle Gzonrninplatt Ha Ha Mwumble Hockey Sticks* followed by *I know what Nicola Sturgeon’s thinking and I hate her coz I want her job no mandate*
We’re no further forward on anything Ruth *no surrender* Davidson says except *Even though I’m tubby I can slither under doors and I’ll find a way to make whatever Theresa May says sound like it’s what I say too no mandate*
Are there no politicians in opposition in Scotland who have any principles on honesty at all
I’m on the verge of joining the *Lets switch off England* team
We have the technology and the manpower
I like the leprechaun in the cartoon. Just noticed he is leaning on a shillelagh. I sincerely hope he is getting ready to use it (in a political sense).
@Les Wilson
I think the lack of STV news is because they are not part of the central ITV network but are run independently from it. All ITV regions now run from a central playout (I think it is in Leeds but not sure) except STV. This is also reflected in the internet were STV has its own player and doesn’t use the ITV player.
Dr Jim says:
*Lets switch off England* team
We have the technology and the manpower.
If only there was such a switch! However in Indy when they cannot pay their bills owed to us, then that becomes a possibility on many things!
Cars and engines are assembled in England/Wales,
but most of the parts used are from elsewhere,
engine blocks,heads,valves,camshaft,turbo,
gearbox,clutch,
electrics,alt,starter various,sensors,air bags,lights
steering,suspension,brake
seats,paint,etc
all accessed without a problem through EU open borders and EU trade deals with rest of world,
this whole system is about to crash to a halt,
England`s biggest manufacture export and largest job market will disappear leaving a massive industrial and human catastrophe.
galamcennalath says:
4 March, 2018 at 12:21 pm
starlaw says:
German carmakers build cars for the American market in the USA
Indeed. BMWs are built in South Carolina.
That is why Japanese cars are built in the EU for the European market…
I heard once the Japanese cars made in the UK are all destined for Europe, because they are left hand drive. The right hand drive cars of the UK market are all imported from Japan because they drive on the left, the same side of the road as the UK.
Putting 2 and 2 together would suggest trade tariffs hitting the UK would not necessarily disrupt Japanese exports and quotas of cars coming to the UK, but leave UK car manufacturing as becomming something of an unnecessary middleman, and tariffs to export cars to Europe from the UK can be avoided by moving manufacturing to an EU member country.
jfngw says:
Coincidence then? They can get Our Borders in though,right with Cumbria.Seems iffy to me. Regardless of the STV link. It means they can spin anything in OUR border area to suit their purpose.
I see the Davidson delusion continues:
First there was the Cher effect sitting asrode a large turret.
Then the Madonna effect, riding a bull.
Latest the Diana effect, clearing landmines.
To follow the First Minister effect, treated as such by the MSM if not the voters.
I can only imagine at home she dons her tiara, cape and sceptre and proclaims ‘Arise Sir Abiesalba of Slovenia for services to kissing. Sir Jackson fetch me my court jester, Ah Dame Annie entertain me with your verbal diarrhoea”.
@ Fireproofjim 12.27
Humza was already fired up by the time Brewster got to him. He had done a BBC morning TV interview, and they were typically aggressive about ‘not coping’ and said country was at a standstill.
He told them they were wrong as rail and airports were operational.
He tweeted aftet that they were stupid questions, and some research wouldn’t go amiss.
jfngw says:
Well ref Davidson, and her mine clearing escapade, if you look at the Jpg of her during her mine clearing exercise, her look says
” shit I have just knelt on a mine! “
Did anyone hear the Labour Shadow Scottish Sec. She maintains that Labour are going to ACT like adults and PLAY with policy.
Sums them up really. All act and play. Mars bar anyone.?
@Les Wilson
Not a coincidence, STV refused to become part of the ITV network, i think that moving their transmission to outside Scotland was a step too far.
This is about rights access between STV & ITV. If you want to access the ITV player you need to give a false postcode. I don’t think it is anything about excluding STV, it’s about money, that’s all that interests an ITV channel.
I remember STV used to have black edged memo paper (may still do, I no longer have a contact there) that needed to be completed if an advert was lost, they didn’t seem to care as much about programme loss.
Brilliant, Chris. England really needs to become independent
The UK——we want control of our borders as a red line.
The EU——so do we.
The UK—— No call for that Johnny foreigner.
Sense of entitlement?? Not much.
The UK had no problem using (or rather threatening to use) their veto to substantially water down the new banking regulations brought it in after the crash and the more recent anti-money laundering legislation concerning tax havens.
jfngw says:
Well I get what you say, but is it right that they can, as I said.
That the can spin any Scottish border news to the tune of England. Why would should be able to do this if STV has the Scottish franchise?
Why the split, Scotland takes in our border area does it not, or does their idea of the Borders, is that they are part of england?
Then it would make sense to do what they have done, but as WE know they are not.
Cumbria is theirs, our border areas are not theirs.
@Les Wilson
STV has a very short entry on Wiki. Its website lists legions of programmes made other than in Scotland. It appears to be about as Scottish as a Bactrian camel. It may as well be an ITV region.
At least the state BBC has a Gaelic element on its web pages.
Scottish media are, given the size of population, remarkably nondescript and reek of our current colonial status.
Yes STV now stands for Southern TeleVision.
Congratulations, Chris. I might send your cartoon on to Leanne!
A propos Brexit/Engxit, this was written by me over a year ago:
________
59. (of 60)
Four men in a nightclub
George, Dai, Jock and Mick/Mike were work colleagues at Yookay Ltd. and shared the same building. George and Dai tended to work close together (despite Dai not really enjoying such a set up), whilst Jock and Mick/Mike had a little more autonomy within their own offices. George tended to think of himself as being the most important member of their group – the Team Leader or the David Brent, if you like.
Consequently, and in the nature of office politics at Yookay Ltd., he tried to control the work practices of Dai, Jock and Mick/Mike; a habit the other three had long grown tired of. Well, although I say the other three had long grown tired of George’s domineering persona, they had not however, as yet, taken the final step of breaking up their partnership with him.
George then considered himself the leader of their section and tended to exert his influence even outside the offices of Yookay Ltd. Dai was of the type not to upset the apple cart and tended to keep moody silences; keeping his head down and getting on with his projects. Jock however was rather more vocal and would often raise his voice against George’s “unwarranted meddling.”
Mick/Mike’s was a more special case. You see, he suffered from Dissociative Identity Disorder. On some days, the Mick personality was dominant and, after having had a bitter row with George, he would seek reassurances from his half-brother, Paddy; an ex-employee of Yookay Ltd., but who was now working successfully for himself. At other times, the Mike personality would pledge undying loyalty to George and the set up at Yookay Ltd., and not a cross word would be exchanged between him and his colleague.
In such a way, the colleagues of Yookay Ltd. rubbed along, and the company itself limped on from financial quarter to financial quarter.
***
Now, one evening, the four colleagues had gone to the Europa nightclub together. What George had seen in going there in the first place was rather a mystery. You will have already have gathered that George was not very much a team player or a social animal. His attitude at the nightclub confirmed all this. The music was too loud. Or it was not to his taste. The lights were too bright. The guests were performing ‘obscene’ movements as they gyrated on the dance floor. The drinks from the bar were some imported, fancy stuff – not like the warm beer he preferred in the Farage Arms pub back home. And the cost of entry! Goodness gracious! It was so exorbitant – and that for facilities he didn’t like one bit: he was minded to ask for a personal rebate.
It was then that George announced, “We’re going home.”
Now, it’s one thing to say that you don’t like a party and that you’re leaving. But, don’t you think it was a bit presumptuous of George to actually say “we” and including Dai, Jock and Mick/Mike in the equation and without making sure with them first? That wasn’t George’s way though. At work, as we have seen, he was known for throwing his weight about and getting his own way. In a similar fashion, he thought he could bully his colleagues into his ways of thinking outside Yookay Ltd.’s offices, too.
“We’re going home?” Jock retorted scornfully, emphasising the “we.” “And who do you think you are telling us that “we” are the ones going home from this great nightclub?”
“I saw you flirting with that dark-haired girl over there in the corner,” said George. “Positively unseemly. Not the conduct we’d expect from an employee of Yookay Ltd.”
“You mean Frances,” Jock replied. He grinned. “Frances was an ex of mine and we lost touch when I started working for Yookay Ltd. We were very close. We even had an alliance to be married. I was getting re-acquainted.” The grin disappeared and was replaced by a grimace. “Until your ham-fisted approach broke up our relationship,” Jock added bitterly.
“Why you ungrateful little creep! I’ve given you more than enough support at Yookay Ltd.! What more could you ask for?” George was shouting.
“What more could I ask for?” Jock repeated. “Why, you could let me make up my own decisions on projects at work. You could stop looking down on me and telling me what to do all the time. And you’re not telling me that just because this Europa nightclub is not doing the things you want, that we have to leave.”
Jock’s resentments over the years were boiling over. “In fact, George, I’ve had enough of you and your bullying over the years – I’m leaving you!” he shouted.
“He’s right, you know,” mumbled Dai. But people rarely listened to him on account of his soft voice and his lack of self-confidence. It would have taken much more of an effort on his part to sound off in the same way as Jock had done.
“Shut it!” George roared at Dai, in typical Eastenders fashion. “You told me before you wanted to leave. You’re in this with me! You know your future lies under my stewardship at Yookay Ltd. Think how stupid Jock would be throwing in his lot with this bunch of strangers, and an ex he hasn’t spoken to in years. He wouldn’t last a year with any of them – and away from us at Yookay Ltd.”
Dai said nothing and looked down at his shoes.
“You’re wrong, George,” Mick said softly. “My half-brother, Paddy has been coming to this Europa nightclub now for years. And he’s enjoyed the internationalism of it immensely. No more ructions with you at Yookay Ltd. He’s now free to do his own thing and make his own friends. He has a place in the world – he knows it and his friends know it. He’s a happy man. And I want to join him in that happiness.”
“Another ("Tractor" - Ed)!” George bawled. “Such ingratitude! To be honest with you, when you were in your Mike phases, I tended to over-indulge you. And this is how you repay me! Well, good riddance! I can do without the lot of you! I’m going home – and to hell with this poxy nightclub. I never wanted to come here in the first place. Come on, Dai!”
“See you,” chorused Jock and Mick, grinning at George.
“We should have left you and Yookay Ltd. long ago. We’re going to stay and enjoy the party atmosphere here at the Europa,” Jock added defiantly. “Too bad you can’t stay!”
George stormed out, muttering threats against Jock and Mick under his breath.
Dai stood on the threshold, a confused look on his face. He was less sure of where his destiny lay.
_____
(c) Parables for the New Politics
2012-2018
Les Wilson
ITV was established in 1955 as a network of regional companies. It treated Britain as one country. In Scotland we had Grampian for the north, STV for the Central Belt and Borders for the south. STV obtained the Grampian franchise and merged it with STV. With that merger and Devolution, Border TV has become much more of an anomaly. It’s a legacy issue.
A glaring example of BBC Scotland twisting fact into fiction using a Newsreader as Front of House.
There was no “criticism” from the First Minister.
Watch,lip-read and listen:
YouTube clip from Reporting Scotland:
https://tinyurl.com/ycswkomd
H Scott says:
thanks for that, I understand a bit more how this came about, it does though still leave me with the issues I previously pointed out. Maybe time STV had a look to incorporate the borders ie our part, into their franchise in discussions with ITV.
However they all seem to be happy with what they have got, to Scotland’s loss.
Cubby at 12.30
“BBC is supposed to be objective. It’s not.
Presiding Officer of the Scot Parliament is supposed to be objective. He’s not. He’s a member of Scotland In Union.
Question – why does the Scottish Government allow this to continue?”
Answer – Because it does not have the power to do anything about it as you should know
TV and Radio broadcasting in Scotland is a mess. It goes beyond BritNat bias too.
If you live near big population centres then Freeview is comprehensive with many channels. If live across most of the country you only get a very cut down service with about a dozen TV channels.
I expect the default in most households which watch live TV is to opt for HD because the picture is indisputablely a lot better. This however gives some problems …
– BBC2 HD is the English service. If you want to see any Scottish opt out content you need to tune to SD.
– STV HD is the Glasgow version no matter where you live in Scotland. If you want content specific to other areas i.e. Aberdeen, you need to tune to SD.
Digital Radio is slowly appearing away from the main transmitters. However, all you will get is ‘English Radio’ ie R1-5, Asian, World. There is no DAB Radio Scotland or Alba across rural Scotland. You need to use FM for that.
It all gives the impression of second rate broadcasting for urban Scotland, and third rate for most of the country.
American tariffs and EU retalition will just put the price of cars and goods up. Increased prices and dearer for consumers. Free trade encourages lower prices. US multinationals tax evade and pay no tax. Worldwide. The EU will make them pay tax. The UK tax havens established by Thatcher. The reason the Tories want out of the EU.
The Bookies always get it right. Better analysis. Curtice usually gets it wrong. Censored and fined repeatedly.
@Cubby says: 4 March, 2018 at 12:30 pm:
“Sunday politics Scotland this morning on BBC another total
BBC is supposed to be objective. It’s not.”
You are correct, Cubby.
Presiding Officer of the Scot Parliament is supposed to be objective. He’s not. He’s a member of Scotland In Union.
You are correct, Cubby.
Question – why does the Scottish Government allow this to continue?
You really have answered your own question, Cubby, but here is the answer in more detail – One of the World’s greatest tacticians, Napoleon Bonaparte, is quoted as saying, in the midst of a battle.
It seems that the SG/SNP are following Napoleon’s sound advice for, in spite of wall to wall Westminster Establishment propaganda by their tame media wing of dead tree press and the Westminster controlled and funded broadcasters, the trend of opinion polls is slowly swinging towards independence.
So, why indeed interfere in their mistakes?
@remo says: 4 March, 2018 at 12:42 pm:
“I like the leprechaun in the cartoon. Just noticed he is leaning on a shillelagh. I sincerely hope he is getting ready to use it (in a political sense).”
Ah! That reminds me, a few years ago I harvested several stout, straight lengths of Blackthorn and stored them away in a cool, dry area of a wee lean to, Greenhouse-like, porch outside my Kitchen door.
That Blackthorn should now be well seasoned and ready to make walking sticks and/or shillelaghs, (is the plural of shillelagh, shillelagh’s?).
Vote Leave, take back control
Not quite relentless SNP out attack propaganda endlessly pumped out by beeb gimps in Pacific Quay for example but its nae bad…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tItgGcWVHw
@Robert Peffers at 1.53 pm ref Napolean and good tactics from the SG.
BtW We’ll support you evermore.
The PO thing with “legislative competence” is quite fascinating and I’ve been thinking about it quite a bit.
What it does do in my mind, is safeguard Holyrood from attack by Westminster in terms of the Scotland Act, and provide a safeguard against it actually being dissolved for “misbehaviour” or something. The PO is the public face of the Parliament itsel, has a lot of ceremonial duties worldwide in theory, and the PO is apparently second in importance to the FM accordng to the parliament website.
But it isn’t a veto, as his statement says he doesn’t have one. And not only that his statement says his is not the last word, as that is in court. That’s an extra layer of protection for Holyrood.
Meanwhile the ScotGov are proceeding with the Bill regardless as is their right. But that now has EXTRA force as they are going against the PO, and in itself that sends an even clearer message to Westminster – we WILL take action, and see you in court if you challenge us. If the PO had ruled the Bill OK, that wouldn’t be so, it would just be a normal Bill, except Westminster could challenge the whole Parliament and Holyrood itself. Perhaps the PO has done us and the ScotGov a favour.
With hindsight now, if I had been the PO I would have deliberately done the same – even if I’d had as well a quiet word in Sturgeon’s shell-like “do what you want – please”.
Yesindyref2 @ 2.17
Well it would be pretty to think so…..
But this is a PO with links (allegedly) to SIU so while you or I would instinctively prioritise protecting Holyrood .
I am still no sure that’s what this guy is doing
Is there a wee plug someone could ‘accidentally’ trip over and pull out with regard to the BBBC?
Or maybe a wee transmitter that would ‘accidentally’ become a dud?
I only ask in a ‘gie us peace’ state of mind.
Really , really tired of the shit they broadcast and wishing them singular ill.
I must be in the mood for boring the pants off people, so here goes a number 2.
David Steel was the first PO, an ex-leader of the Liberals when they were Liberals, not whatever they are now. A highly respected politician, some would say a statesman. To my mind he got off the Holyrood “town council”, a potential rabble of mostly under-skilled politicians, to a very fine start, giving it respectability and importance, with growing impact in everyday life. Within a few short years, whereas 25.6% voted NO in 1997, less than 10% wanted Holyrood abolished, according to the SSASes.
And curiously that is a bedrock of the push for Independence: “If we can do this devolved, think what we can do if fully Independent”.
Can’t really remember the interim ones, but Marwick was a good one, famously telling Salmond to “sit down and shut up” or words to that effect. She wanted reform (particularly committees) but I think health became a bit of a problem. Anyways. That’s that one!
yesindyref2 @ 14:17,
Nice theory, but given the PO’s background and no evident “rising to the role”, I think I prefer a much simpler explanation myself!
@Liz g
I honestly don’t know, I give a bit of the benefit of the doubt, and not sure if his involvement was pre-PO or not? Wasn’t it 2015 or early 16 he put his name on the list for SiU, and has he had any involvement since becoming PO? I’ve no idea!
yesindyref2 @ 14:40,
I had somehow forgotten Steel, but you are quite right about him. One of only two top-calibre WM people (the other being Dewar, of course) who chose to put their personal reputation behind the new Parliament. (Whereas all the old lags like Broon and ambitious Libs and Labourites like the “Alexander brothers” cravenly stuck like glue to WM.)
Looking back, maybe the merger with the SocDems brought a largely SE English and top-down Labourite infusion into the old party. I guess most of the ordinary Scots Libs who had some feeling for their unique place in history have long since quit by now.
1:47pm
Dave McEwan Hill
Presiding Officer of the Scot Parliament is supposed to be objective. He’s not. He’s a member of Scotland In Union.
Question – why does the Scottish Government allow this to continue?”
Answer – Because it does not have the power to do anything about it as you should know
The Presiding Officer can be removed with a simple resolution passed by a majority in parliament. His bias should not be tolerated. It’d be good fun to see how the unionists react. It’s precious when they try to explain to us how majority votes in parliament are anti-democratic.
Huge oooooold Jeremy Corbyn boost from Russia TV. The author’s likes it both ways. If Scotland does ever go down the SLab route to teamGB greatness, oh fuck.
From,
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/419949-jeremy-corbyn-brexit-uk/
That Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn is the most progressive leader of any mainstream party in Western Europe today is not in doubt.
to,
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/john-wight/scottish-independence-is-_b_12512554.html
As someone who opposed Scottish independence in 2014, writing numerous articles and appearing in public debates to put the case for unity across the UK on the basis of class, rather than division on the basis of nationality, I now believe that independence for Scotland is not only desirable but necessary. Not only is it necessary in the interests of people in Scotland, but even more significantly it is necessary in order to lift the banner of progressive politics out of the mud, where it currently lies, and raise it as a beacon of hope across a European continent engulfed by the ugly politics of racial and national exceptionalism to an extent not seen since the 1930s.”
JC will save us all, the veep of CND, what wont fire any Trident 2 nukes at anyone but will blow over £200bn on them, is so progressive and SLab like.
Maybe progressive means something different when cross the border in to the merry olde England zone.
@RJS
Yes, I miss the old Liberals, even though I never voted for them. Kind of a comfort blanket, they’d be there to protect democracy itself, individual rights, principles, prepared to play a secondary but vital part in democracy.
Then they didn’t, hungered after power, merged, and lost it all, same as they did in 2010 with the Coalition. Greed for power virtually killed them off just as they were becoming more important and influential in their own right.
Righty, third pants ass bore off philos… philly … err, posting.
I’ve been kind of observing the postings of the anti-SNP anti-Indy, specialising in the Herald btl, but coming to the conclusion that many of the strongest of these actually want to abolish Holyrood, so represent the 10%, not any of the 90% who want devolution / Independence.
Mmm, that’s it really, except perhaps that the devolutionists seem to me to be getting more thoughtful, even while popping off at the SNP as par for the course. There are of course SiU type activists who count for nothing.
heedtracker @ 15:11,
Not for the first time that some English scribe has a better insight into what’s going on than our native presstitutes can somehow manage.
John Wight:
Maybe somebody should gently enlighten Shafi and Jamieson about that…
Oh, bore bore bore, number 4, Which is 2 number 2s or 4 number 1s.
I wonder if SiU is at heart abolitionist but is suckering in actual devolutionists as “members” or contributors? Any opinions? Maybe “These Islands” is also abolitionist, considering the errant meanderings of self-appointed prominentoes?
@yesindyref2 says: 4 March, 2018 at 2:40 pm:
“Can’t really remember the interim ones, but Marwick was a good one, famously telling Salmond to “sit down and shut up” or words to that effect.”
Trish was outstandingly good and, off the top of my head, the others were Wee George Reid, (SNP) and Alex Ferguson, (Labour),(no not that Alex Ferguson), and I cannot recall any others.
it is too late for Corbyn to have any serious impact on politics in Scotland.
Not if the tory yoons of Scotland have anything to do with it, red and blue. It is going to be interesting watching JC’s vote NO 2 campaign. At the very least Crash Gordon was an actual PM and very proud Scot butish, when it suited the vicious old shyster.
Tbf, JC does not like the EU much at all but he’s been hedging since the Brexit ref itself. No wonder with so much of England’s Labour heartlands voting Leave.
heedtracker @ 15:35,
Yes, all those troublesome BritLab Leavers plus a never-expressed wish to keep options open for a never-coming large-scale re-nationalisation. It’s never easy being a leader, and never more so in times such as these.
But sometimes you have to “man up” and lead from the front not the rear. Lead rather than lag opinion. Brexitastrophe is going to hurt those Leavers way more than anyone else, and way, way more than they currently realise.
That’s Corbyn’s failure.
Very much in contrast to our own FM’s principled stand. That’s courage. That’s true leadership.
The Tánaiste (what a lovely name for his post too) was excellent on Marr this morning and the SNP heads that go on these programs should follow his suit when gobshites like Marr are trying to put words in their mouth – firm, polite but bold too – too many SNP ministers and MPs are too nice with the likes of BBC, STV when we should be more bullish.
See Rooth has been moothin’ off again about No Indyref. She’s a one trick pony and it’s all she has!
Something to consider.
HMgov’s impact report… pretty devastating. Scotgov’s impact report, also pretty devastating. Both informed by independent reportage from varied sources. A varied collection of economic publications paint an equally grim picture over the past two years.
So it comes down to this. Support political union, then folk must be aware by this point that they enable Brexit and it follows they would enable untold harm to the economy, prosperity, services, life chances of their respective populations.
There is no good Brexit. It is beyond reasonable doubt that there would be an across the board contraction of the economies of the UK. Country by country and region by region. Those who would willingly vote in support of this would also no doubt support extended Tory government and austerity ideology. It goes without saying that with contraction, austerity ideology will not simply be extended, but aggressively pursued beyond current levels. Devolution, human and civil rights won’t go unscathed through this process.
As for societal ramifications outwith the obvious? What can you say that hasn’t already been said about the nature of the EU referendum campaign and its aftermath. Isolation and out of control blanket demonisation of varied demographics won’t go away. There will always be a requirement for another scapegoat.
So it’s about that time. People need to ask themselves. Is this what they signed up for in 2014? What kind of country do they want to live in? What legacy will they pass on?
It’s not too late and the population of Scotland do have an alternative option. If we want it.
@ Faltdubh, for one-trick pony read horses-arse!
As a thought by the way about abolitionists, I’ve known a few in my 75% NO voting area, and the thing is one reason is a dislike of Holyrood, but the other is of politicians in general, and an extra layer of “money-grubbing politicians with noses in troughs”.
The answer to the second group is, of course, vote YES to Indy to get rid of the Westminster lot. So it’s worth asking if people are abolitionists, and if so, would they vote YES to get rid of a whole load of freeloaders, even if it leaves a load at Holyrood?
Every little YES vote helps.
On the topic of cartoons, some of this stuff is excellent …
http://evildraye.scot/comic/time-to-go/
… I hadn’t seen it before.
@Faltdubh says: 4 March, 2018 at 3:51 pm:
” … too many SNP ministers and MPs are too nice with the likes of BBC, STV when we should be more bullish.”
That’s rather a moot point, Faltdubh. In Ireland they have a real choice that is not available to the SNP in Scotland. In Ireland there are Radio, TV and newspaper views and support from both unionist and Republican supporting sources. Thus both sides of the media know that if they are overly biased then the audience will just become whatever a particular media supports their potential customers, viewers and readers will be limited to whatever side the sources support and no source wants to limit their potential user base. Worse still advertisers will stop advertising.
In Scotland, the SNP are already being marginalised and if they become more aggressive they will got no air time and only one newspaper’s, sometimes doubtful, support.
What’s more the mere fact that the unionist bias has become much more apparent is causing more and more people to stop buying, watching or listening. Factually all newspapers have a shrinking readership and the TV & Radio figures are often hard to find as the media really do not want us to know their following is shrinking.
Robert Peffers @ 16:23,
Up to a point, Lord Copper. [“Scoop”]
But enforced passivity has its limits. At some point we’ve got to get on the front foot and take the lead, otherwise people will begin to suspect that we’ve all given up or gone to sleep or something.
And a very sensible way to keep heads up and people aware is to do precisely as Faltdubh suggests.
Scots Parliament
Point of Order Presiding Officer
“Rule 8.17 Points of order
1. A member may in any proceedings question whether proper procedures have been or are being followed by making a point of order.
2. In making a point of order, a member may not speak for more than 3 minutes and may not speak on the question under consideration. Points of order shall take precedence over the question under consideration, the discussion of which shall be suspended while they are being considered.
3. The Presiding Officer shall normally take an immediate decision on any point of order in accordance with these Rules but may exceptionally defer taking a decision. The Presiding Officer shall announce the ruling made under this rule.
—Point of Order
“..It has come to my attention that the PO may be a member of a partisan unionist group actively campaigning against the Scottish Government and even this lawful constituted parliament. If so should the PO not consider his own position in the light of his decision to ignore the Lord Advocate. Should the PO not stand down until such times as a proper inquiry is carried out as to his SIU membership and other like minded bodies?”
– Now he may say no -again but worthy of a challenge I would have thought. Worth a laugh!!
Has anyone been able to vote on the most influential woman Sky poll recently? From earlier today although I clicked on the link shown on this thread, all all I got was this page:
https://news.sky.com/story/vote-who-is-britains-most-influential-woman-11274648
No list or link to a list.
It’s obvious Westminster will do nothing about the border between the north and south of Ireland. The EU will have no choice but to erect a hard border. Westminster will then eagerly blame the EU.
The EU and Ireland’s rection? Well, they could continue to allow people and goods to exit Ireland into Northern Ireland without any checks. Instead they could instigate strict checks on people and goods coming into Ireland from the north.
They could also advise/help economic migrants currently stuck in the north of France to enter the united kingdom via Ireland and the one-way open border with Northern Ireland.
[Just kidding?]
I tend to agree that the SNP should be more firm with an interviewer when they get misquoted.
Interviewer: “So you’re saying when you’re on ice you should change gear?”
Guest: “NO, that’s NOT what I said at all. I said put the clutch down”.
First part shows up the interviewer as a liar, and gets attention for the second part, second part gives the information in a definite forceful way.
Brian Powell @ 16:45,
Checked just now, Brian, and it’s still there. NS continuing to pull away in the lead with 21.7k votes, getting on for twice that of HMQ, her nearest runner-up.
So keep these votes a-comin’, peeps! And let’s see what happens… =grin=
Brian Powell says:
It can take absolutely ages to bring up the full page. Much patience is needed.
Nicola Sturgeon 22k
Betty Windsor 13k
Mhairi Black 8k
From an international perspective Scotland is so marginal it almost falls over the edge into oblivion. Scotland’s ‘indigenous’ media do nothing to help. A country whose broadcasters seem unable to produce primetime news programmes covering both domestic and international is in a very bad place indeed. The daily trip to London for ‘the main news’ bespeaks colonial subverience.
The BBC’s foreign service is unquestionably London centric as are the represntatives of foreign media. We are grossly ill-served.
Independence must come, whether the ‘majority’ is altogether ‘happy’ with the idea or not.
Without it we will continue to be perceived as a nation perversely licking the boots of its jailer, a propensity so conspicuously detrimental to its psychological, cultural and political health.
@Ottomanboi
Should read…’colonial subservience’.
@Brian Powell
I voted yesterday by hovering moosy on the box (amount of votes cast) for each and clicked my moosy…seemed to work OK!
Jings 21K and rising for NS….long time to Wednesday though and the vagaries of the internet. 🙂
@yesindyref2
Your example was putting words in mouths. There’s another variant. A standard interview technique is to combine a general statement and a question.
People like Andrew Neil will make a statement they must know is untrue, or at best controversial.
Too many interviewees go straight to answer the question.
The more savvy immediately challenge the premise and validity of the statement, which then opens a wonderful opportunity to say what the interviewee want to say.
I too have seen SNP people go for the former action.
As you point out … a double whammy … shows the interviewer to be dishonest or ill prepared … then gets some genuine info on record.
The all time bestest has to be Jeanne Freeman with AN. Love that exchange! 🙂
@Robert J. Sutherland says: 4 March, 2018 at 4:34 pm:
Up to a point, Lord Copper. [“Scoop”]
But enforced passivity has its limits. At some point we’ve got to get on the front foot and take the lead, otherwise people will begin to suspect that we’ve all given up or gone to sleep or something.”
Indeed but, (and there’s always a but), What will the reactions be from the hostile media sources? I do not know about you but I am aware there has been increased numbers of Wingers commenting on this blog about increasingly unfair balance on both radio and TV politics shows.
Such imbalances have always been there but at least the media people made some efforts to both skim over complaints or justify their practices. I pay attention to these things and there has indeed been a decline in not only independence supporting people getting onto such programmes and a far more devious manner of exposing them.
There are less indy supporters in audiences, less indy supporters on panels, more indy supporters on monitors and fewer in the studio and different ways of exposing them on camera and microphone than previously.
I’m nothing if not a realist and I saw this unionist reaction coming before they even began doing it and said as much here on Wings. Put yourself in the shoes of a BBC producer or director and ask yourself how you would react to what you saw as a increasingly chippy independence supporting person to interview. How would you treat them?
In the first instance you would do your best to NOT invite them in the first place but it you did you would do anything you could to disadvantage them. As I pointed out up-thread to Faltdubh. At least in Ireland there are alternatives to both unionist and republican media sources. Then there are the advertisers in Scotland they too don’t have a choice. They either use the existing media or don’t advertise and both newspapers & STV are paid for by ads.
Ottomanboi @ 16:56:
Hmmm, you keep coming out with this sort of thing.
Maybe Santa will give it us as a present next Christmas.
Or maybe enough of us will wise up sufficiently to the true situation as you mention, tell Rude Gal in no uncertain terms to take a no-mandate hike, and have indyref2 whether Mayhem likes it or not. (I would like to see her try to stop us then.)
It’s not as though we’re asking anyone to act in anything other than their own best interests. (Unlike the Brexiteer kamikazis [sic], fr’instance.)
O/T
Reported in today’s Sunday Herald, Tommy Sheppard says he wont stand for Deputy leader of SNP and according to the BBC, Joanna Cherry has rules herself out too.
Apologies if already posted.
Robert Peffers @ 17:11,
I’ve always seen it as SNP reps trying to always appear reasonable and responsible, despite the provocation, and not wanting to appear impolite or bad-tempered, since that definitely puts people off.
But like others I believe it’s possible to continue to do that whilst also proactively highlighting highly-skewed questioning that might not always be obvious to the innocent viewer. Re-framing.
Arrange it so that (part of) the “take-away” is an impression that the questioner is the one who is being unreasonable. (Which is often only the truth, after all.)
As for exclusions, it’s not as if that’s not happening already. How many times have we seen the likes of Paul Kavanagh or Peter Bell on the telly? (Answer: none) If the Beeb et al were to try to push their luck so far as to exclude everyone on the pro-indy side, including the SNP, the skew would be patently visible to all! =laugh=
Re Presiding Officer.
The SNP can not afford to put up a candidate for that position. The Presiding Officer cannot vote so the SNP would be giving up a member. With a wafer thin majority, including the Greens they would risk losing almost every vote.
Better wait till next election and if everybody votes SNP/SNP the problem will go away.
@Robert J Sutherland
Truly, I do ‘keep coming up with this sort of thing’
Unless Scotland is an exception to the decolonisation/independence rule the likelihood that we will have to go down the classic messy route to freedom is pretty high given the history of the thing.
The British imperium is no fluffy, pink little creature. You dont get empires by being ‘nice’. Reduced to its core it will fight tooth and nail to retain ‘its’ territorial status. Independence by ballotbox is a cool notion but one rarely, if ever, achieved in practice especially when the stakes are patently so high.
Scotland might be an exception but honestly, I hae ma doutis.
Well, following this drawing I expect Brexit to be reversed and Scotland to be fully independent by 9:00am tomorrow morning.
Re: Presiding Officer.
I don;t agree with MacIntosh’s decision – I think he called it wrong and, if it goes to Supreme Court, will be found to have called it wrong.
His job is to ensure the rules of the Scottish Parliament are followed. If he feels a particular Bill put forward by the government of the day is in breach of Parliament rules, it is his absolute duty to say what he thinks. Is MacIntosh playing games here or does he genuinely believe the ScotParl has stepped over the line? Who knows. But as Presiding Office he DOES have a function in the ScotParl to speak up when he thinks something may be in breach of Parliament rules.
The last thing ANY of us should want is a totally compliant Presiding Officer who will simply acquiesce with the wishes of the government of the day. I want a proper functioning democracy with checks and balances – not a democratic dictatorship.
I think MacIntosh called it wrong and the Continuity Bill will eventually be granted Royal Assent but it’s within the rules of our parliament for all Presiding Officers to speak up if they think the rules of the parliament are in breach. We should be respecting the Presiding Officer’s right to make such controversial calls, not lambasting them for doing so. At least that’s what we should be doing if we want a properly functioning democracy.
I do, however, take the point about MacIntosh’s ongoing membership of SIU. The previous PO, Tricia Marwick, suspended her membership of the SNP when she became PO of the ScotParl. MacIntosh should do likewise. If he refuses to do so then, on that basis, he probably should consider his position.
My twapenceworth.
Excuse me if I’ve missed it, but why no comment on the hypocrisy of Ruth the Mooth’s comment about the need for more diversity in politics in Scotland. She needs to get her own house in order, surely?
Just saying!
Brian Powell @4.45
Try scroling down the page. Click on the wee blue box top right of Nicola’s picture.
Should read “scrolling”. Why does one never spot typos until it is too late?
After Trump’s Tariff Speech where now for the Brexiteers’ wonderful Trade Treaty with the US.
5.28 Fireproofjim.
You said this…”Better wait till next election and if everybody votes SNP/SNP the problem will go away”.
………
Or…since indyref2 will be here BEFORE any scheduled election anywhere in the uk, just vote YES and the problem will go away ?
Brian Powell
retie vote on Britains most influential woman, I tried several times and got nowhere until I changed from safari to google. It came up first time on google – with the same link.
have voted now.
https://news.sky.com/story/vote-who-is-britains-most-influential-woman-11274648
@gus1940
This Trump speech..?
http://archive.is/3QamH
The same Trump who is going to rush to give treeza a great deal !! Aye..right treeza..!
Just checking up on Rev’s twitter and doing a follow-through, and this comment on an article caught my eye, from somone whose name I’d heard and now looked up, very interesting. Article itself as other’s have commented is indeed self-indulgent shite.
“Very clunky analysis by comrades who until fairly recently were ambivalent about independence and sympathetic to Brexit Lexit anyone ?)and whose most recent electoral foray RISE resembled more a dodo than a Phoenix!
Independence wont happen without the SNP and the decision when to go for a second referendum is a tricky one but I trust Nicola’s judgement rather than Jonathan’s in the meantime the SNP government is doing not a bad job of protecting against the Tories!”
Indeed.
I thought earlier post that the PO was a member of Scotland in Union was a joke.
Surely being associated with such a shadowy crew brings his integrity into question.
Are we being manipulated at such a high level?
Robert Peffers; Dave McEwan Hill; Dave Oga
Thanks for your comments.
The main concern has got to be our media. A decent media would report both sides of the story re K Macintosh and his decision. Scottish media does not. It creates the impression that the Scottish government is doing something wrong and illegal. In fact Ruth Davidson said that in Politics Scotland earlier today.
I hope you are right Robert Peffers because in my experience the media is the main reason so many voted no in 2014. Time will tell whether the SNP/Scot gov has a plan to counter the media and whether it succeeds or not. I don’t see any sign of a plan but of course that does not mean it is not there. Large numbers of people still believe the BBC tell the truth and nothing but the truth. This myth needs to be blown apart.
I have always thought that without a biased/propaganda media there should be a 70% majority in Scotland for independence.
Here are some more of the uninvited, in Scotland’s Glasgow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARUwPAnMrr0
Warning: This will NOT make you laugh.
iScotref call is running to time and will be announced as was previously explained to us all by our (soon to be independent) Scottish Government. The mandate remains the same.
This time-frame may, of course, quicken, should the UKGov ‘negotiations’ further deteriorate.
Let’s return to and get Scotland back to normal.
Have an excellent Sunday evenin’ Scotland.
Let’s return to normal.
Normal is good.
If Labour in Wales and their legal experts think that a continuity bill is within the competence of devolution and the SNP and their legal team and the Lord Advocate thinks it is within the competence of devolution then I am inclined to the view that Ken Macintosh may be in honest error to think it is not.
However, Ken’s continued membership of SiU and their evident raison d’etre to gainsay anything and everything the SNP say and do does not sit well with me. However, if he were to quit that organisation I doubt his actual sentiment would change nor the course of any action he might take. It would just be window dressing if he were to put some distance between himself and SiU now.
In any event I think Holyrood are right to proceed with the bill and it must have come as a surprise to SiU that so many MSPs voted to do so.
Just as an addy, if our Scottish Government were to announce the date for iScotref any sooner than ‘once the deal is known’… all you would hear from the corporate media press would be:
MSM (Corporate Media / TV / papers, etc):
And you can see where they would go with that.
Of course, this time-frame, may quicken, should the UKGov ‘negotiations’ further deteriorate.
Stick to the plan Stanley.
See hear.
Ottomanboi @ 17:38,
So when does the armed uprising happen, comrade?
Or is this agent provocateur 101 in action?
Trying to convince the eminently convinceable that indy is only for swivel-eyed goons?
I mean, seriously, what are you about…?
Yer a fine looking Woman
Yer a hell of a man
And i know you always
Do all that you can
You should not have to
You Worked all your life
But your Pension Was stolen
And gave you this Strife
The Tories don’t care
Whether or not You eat
They Want all around
Groveling at their feet
But That Wont happen
We will never be Bought
They are facing New Resistance
From every true Scot
And soon they will Kiss
Their wee world Goodbye
With Indy ref 2
When we all vote Aye
Bill Glen
Totally OT. But an interesting piece of trivia.
In 1918 English Avenue in Leningrad/St Petersburg was renamed as McLean Street after our own John McLean.
In 1994 the historical name of English Avenue was reinstated to mark the visit to St Petersburg of Betty Windsor.
I reckon here in Scotland a few streets and squares should be renamed after Indy 🙂
And think of all those commemorative postage stamps we can release with our ‘heros’ on them.
Odd thing from Al Kennedy and the Graun.
https://archive.is/AGtTL
I was around for the collapse of the docks and the Timex factory. Massive local government and police corruption continued to punish the poor and keep the city underdeveloped and ugly. DC Thomson’s portfolio of comics and incurious newspapers trundled on, and a comfortable bubble of university and small business types floated in the midst of punitive housing schemes.
As brown-envelope scandals came and went, a young person could learn a lot about the world. While Britain becomes Dundee writ large at least I’m not disappointed. I never expected anything else.”
Brexit UK zone wont be that bad surely:D
@galamcennalath
Stamps, coins and notes are worth real profits to the mint / treasury, if sensibly used by Government instead of totally privatised.
Royal Mint: “Profits on commemorative coins surged 51 per cent from £7.3million to £11million in the 2015-16 financial year, its latest results show.“
Sadly, Lenin thought John Maclean/MacLean was English.
@Robert J. Sutherland says: 4 March, 2018 at 5:27 pm:
Thank you for your reply, Robert, sorry I had other things to see to and am slow to reply.
“I’ve always seen it as SNP reps trying to always appear reasonable and responsible, despite the provocation, and not wanting to appear impolite or bad-tempered, since that definitely puts people off.”
You may be right but I believe it has always gone deeper than that. I did a short spell way back before the explosion in the average home of computer technology attempting to do publicity for an SNP branch. Nowadays you wouldn’t believe just how hard it was to get anything whatsoever published. This is not a new problem by any means.
The SNP approach was, of necessity then, to try to be reasonable and not to alienate the media any more than they already were. That hasn’t changed much over the years except in one very important facet. The media, more than ever now, are far more (openly) blatantly anti-SNP. It used to be far more subtle but was equally anti-SNP/Independence.
Anyway I believe you are coming round to the real truth for you write:-
“As for exclusions, it’s not as if that’s not happening already. How many times have we seen the likes of Paul Kavanagh or Peter Bell on the telly? (Answer: none) If the Beeb et al were to try to push their luck so far as to exclude everyone on the pro-indy side, including the SNP, the skew would be patently visible to all!
Which really sums up the approach that the SNP/SG have been taking and, as the Westminster Establishment propaganda becomes ever more transparent, ever more former unionists, and that includes the majority among our younger new voters, are seeing through the biased media tactics. The long term trend of opinion polls keeps moving towards independence.
I’m not sure if anyone has posted these links but it will do no harm to post again:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRDmSH-_CHg
There speaks a man who doesn’t have to worry if he will not be invited back by the BBC. See how he handled Marr. Note that comments are not allowed on this version.
Contrast that to these much edited versions that are now all over YouTube:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BQOiPDz2L4&t=6s
And here:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MgZqD3Qy34
Three versions of the exact same interview but two have been edited to distort them and give a quite different impression of what really took place. If you watch carefully The Irish Minister has a hard job not to laugh at Marr. Can you still blame the SNP for being very wary of anything BBCish?
An excellent letter about the uselessness of Scottish Tories. Specifically in relation to farming here, but hits the nail firmly ….
http://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/opinion/16059854.Facing_up_to_the_reality_of_Brexit/
@Proud Cybernat says: 4 March, 2018 at 5:55 pm:
“Re: Presiding Officer.
I don;t agree with MacIntosh’s decision – I think he called it wrong and, if it goes to Supreme Court, will be found to have called it wrong.
His job is to ensure the rules of the Scottish Parliament are followed. If he feels a particular Bill put forward by the government of the day is in breach of Parliament rules, it is his absolute duty to say what he thinks.”
Whoa! Right there, Proud Cybernat, Sitting alongside the Presiding Officer are, besides the deputies, are his advisors from the parliaments Corporate Body. They are not there to advise him what is for lunch in the parliament’s canteen.
O/T
Does anyone know if Edward II was crowned on Stone of Destiny (Jacob`s pillow)with a primary source for reference.
Heedy
Peffers
And the rest of their gang of Trolls with their wall to wall posts have ruined this forum.
Fuck this,,Am off !!!
Whoa! Right there, Proud Cybernat, Sitting alongside the Presiding Officer are, besides the deputies, are his advisors from the parliaments Corporate Body. They are not there to advise him what is for lunch in the parliament’s canteen.
Yeah. And?
interesting wee thread here about May’s speech and UKs Brexit delusions
https://twitter.com/piris_jc/status/970338595482595328
This guy thinks we are heading for a Canada type FTA
galamcennalath says:
4 March, 2018 at 8:59 pm
good letter, I also notice its written by an English farmer, and ScotGov and Fergus Ewing get a good word!
@Cubby says: 4 March, 2018 at 6:58 pm:
“I hope you are right Robert Peffers because in my experience the media is the main reason so many voted no in 2014.”
If there is one thing I believe to be 100% correct it is that Nicola Sturgeon and the SG are most certainly not daft or naïve. If they are not taking a stronger line in dealings with the biased media they do so with very good reason. I believe, but it is my own opinion, that they do so because their excellent system of checking what goes on in Scotland is telling them that voters are slowly still moving from no to yes. As the 50% mark is very close they will be wary of doing anything rash while things keep moving towards, or have passed, that 50% mark.
As long as the trend is towards indy why interrupt it? Just think of the horror if they began to get stroppy with the media and the trend reversed?
Glamaig says:
4 March, 2018 at 9:19 pm
interesting wee thread here about May’s speech and UKs Brexit delusions
It is and why are no UK zone beeb gimps telling us Maybot speech realities like this?
JC Piris
?
@piris_jc
5h5 hours ago
More
7/on access to SM, still illusions. Ms May increased the number of EU policies, parts of SM, EURATOM, even Agencies which are not open to third countries (Chemicals, medicines) that U.K. would like to REMAIN in…Shows that U.K. has interest to be as close as possible to EU and SM
Nice as it is to push the FM & Mhairi Black inthe SKY News Vote: Who is Britain’s most influential woman?
1. Nicola Sturgeon 25.5k votes
2. Betty Winsor 16.3k votes
3. Mhairi Black 10.2k votes
4. Diana Wales 6.6k votes
5. Thatcher 6.1k votes
Get onto this link and add your comments folks:
https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/public-administration-and-constitutional-affairs-committee/devolution-brexit-web-forum/
Specifically, they are interested in hearing your views on the following questions:
1. How well do you think the UK and Scottish Parliaments currently work together?
2. How could the UK and Scottish Governments work together better?
3. How should the UK and Scottish Parliaments take better care to ensure Scottish and UK Ministers work together in the best interests of Scotland?
Currently lots of BritNat shut down Holyrood comments from folk including Batshit Jill of the Green Ink Gang.
Worth reading.
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/03/04/five-guys-named-woe/
@galamcennalath says: 4 March, 2018 at 8:21 pm:
Totally OT. But an interesting piece of trivia.
In 1918 English Avenue in Leningrad/St Petersburg was renamed as McLean Street after our own John McLean.
In 1994 the historical name of English Avenue was reinstated to mark the visit to St Petersburg of Betty Windsor.
Did ye mibbies mean Queen Elizabeth of England?
Queen Elizabeth of England’s paternal grandfather’s ancestry can be traced back to Germany. Her ancestors, such as Frederick and Dedo I, were from the German family of Wettin in the 900s.
When they inherited the Wettin Castle, they took on the family name of Wettin. Wettin Castle was located in Wettin in Saxony, Germany. In 1917 due to tensions related to World War I, the English royal family changed their name from, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to the House of Windsor.
So tak yer pick – Wettin, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, or Windsor.
Mibbies, when Scotland throws thaim oot, they micht chinge it again tae Buckingham efter thir Buck Hoose in London.
seems to be a BBC news blackout on Gibraltar since the heady days of threatening to invade Spain so I had to go looking for myself
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gibraltar-chief-minister-claims-brexit-veto-calls-second-referendum-1657414
Says their constition allows them to pick and choose what parts of the deal they want, and stuff ‘a deal which works for every part of the UK family’
I guess our particular part of the ‘UK family’ is bound and gagged in the cellar.
@Indy2 says: 4 March, 2018 at 9:17 pm:
“Heedy
Peffers
And the rest of their gang of Trolls with their wall to wall posts have ruined this forum.
Fuck this,,Am off !!!”
See an mind yon heavy Wings door disna skelp yer earse oan yer wey oot, Indy2.
Dinna Haste ye Back, kis naebody wull miss ye.
Glamaig says:
4 March, 2018 at 9:54 pm
I guess our particular part of the ‘UK family’ is bound and gagged in the cellar
…and currently being threatened with legal action
@Robert J Sutherland
I might also ask you what you are about?
Some Scottish nationalists inhabit a politically cozy world in which marking an X on a bit of paper every few years counts as ‘engagement’. The powers that be love the type. They are just pin pricks on its rump unlikely ever to deliver anything more threatening because they’re more concerned about their pensions and access to Corrie: that low birthrate ageing population thing has such a mind altering effect.
They also seem to want a Scotland much like this one but with its own nice postage stamps.
Met the type, mostly politically unsophisticated lightweights.
It took the Irish 800 years to get their republic. At this rate we may need as long.
I have many non~Scottish friends and in the light of our history and that of the British generally they are perplexed by Scotland’s dutiful docility in the face of such a world renowned bully, albeit with a nice line in table talk.
Btw I am not unwise enough to advocate crude violence, simply popular resistance. Too extreme?
Read the extensive relevant liberation literature. Sadly for Scotland, few take the trouble.
heedtracker @6.47pm on 3 March
Belatedly caught up on your post regarding Kevin Mackenna’s Saturday Herald piece. Thanks for providing the extract – although reading it did not help the blood pressure!
I’ve also read the later comments here BTL on this and whilst I agree with them, candidly McKenna’s got off very lightly.
The section in your extract that is especially objectionable begins “… the building bricks of authentic socialism and are a rebuke to the SNP’s recent descent into gesture politics …” and ends ” produced in a middle-class bubble …”.
Criticism of policy is one thing – fair game – but here McKenna succeeds within one short paragraph to construct a cheap ‘gish gallop’ without analysis or evidence, is patronising, and dismisses out of hand as ‘gesture politics’ serious (perhaps less than perfect?) attempts by a progressive Scottish Government to address important social issues of our time e.g child welfare and gender equality.
His is a blatant attempt to persuade readers of ‘SNPverybad’ and promote as resurgent the Scottish Labour, i.e. the Scottish branch of the unionist British Labour Party.
I have often read with interest McKenna’s writing over many years: he stepped over a line with this article.
As another poster suggested, if we wait until Mr McKenna’s next article in a different newspaper he may offer us a different viewpoint. I for one will look with severe scepticism – sorry, I will dismiss – anything this journalist writes now concerning progressive politics in Scotland and our journey to independence.
O/T I thought you would be interested to hear about the troll incident I had today. My local Yes group’s Facebook posted for the first time in about 9 months and only the second comment said aggressively that indy supporters should give up.
Who is bothering to keep an eye on longtime-inactive Yes FBs? Am I paranoid?
galamcennalath at 8.21
George Square in Glasgow should be renamed Maclean Square
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2016/02/29/tories-systematically-cheat-elections-says-campaign-manager/
Also, bears shit in Scottish woods.
Only 2.45 hours til just a n other week of beeb gimp SNP Out propaganda boots up.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tc4cd
Or, just another whole hour of beeb gimp tory propaganda, live!
As ever, the complete and total exclusion of anyone or anything SNP.
This is really not what the 2014 BetterTogether dingdongs promised at all.
Farming subsidies to Scotland £470 million. The Spit: 90% of the finance goes to the richest 10% of landowners. 10% goes to 90% of the small farmer. This is what the Tories are determined to protect post Brexit.
https://caltonjock.com/2018/02/28/scottish-tory-unionist-carpetbagging-landowners-protect-their-farming-subsidies-post-brexit-update-at-4-mar-2018/
There is a wee story,Still to be told, Of how independence Will Slowly unfold
Scotland Will change But how that Transpires,Will only be Shown,When
The Union Expires, It could be fast Maybe slow,But our Dreams will guide
Us Of that i know,No bed of Roses,No instant Reward,But hard work ahead
On that you can count,But The difficulties ahead,We will Surmount,
Working together side by side Letting the World see Scotland has pride,
The people Are willing Able and keen, Unlike this Union Evil and Mean,
So lets stand together Raising our Head To make sure once and For all
This Union is Dead
Bill Glen .
@ Scott Finlayson 21:07
Does anyone know if Edward II was crowned on Stone of Destiny (Jacob`s pillow)with a primary source for reference?
The short answer is no, as the stone taken by Edward I was not the “Stone of Destiny”. There is a description of the stone by Walter of Guisborough, who says it was a stone “hollowed out as a round chair”. That certainly doesn’t describe the stone that was take by Edward I. I have also heard from a reliable source, but not read for myself, that the Stone of Destiny was black in colour and it also had writing around the rim of the stone.
The Stone of Scone, let’s call it, that Edward I took to London was built in to a chair, which we now know as the Coronation Chair. It was certainly used for the coronation of Edward II.
As to primary sources? I would suggest looking at the Chronicle of Walter de Guisborough? It’d probably have the primary source reference on Edward II and the Coronation Chair.
stewartb says:
4 March, 2018 at 10:11 pm
heedtracker @6.47pm on 3 March
It is a load of Mackenna that Saturday Herald thing but it is very tory Scotland too.
Herald tries to flog itself to money in Scotland and a lot of Scots have a lot of money. Its a big ad market for the Herald to try and not go bust without.
But underlying all that juicy Jag, Rangy and Aston Martin ad revenue etc, its the usual tory shyste, another massive boost for SLabour in Scotland, all to keep Scottish tory creeps also not going bust.
Vote SLab monied Scotland, only Jeremy Corbyn can save all your wealth and privileges.
or,
How much more Scottish tory politics does it get, when they’re hoping an aging Westminster ligger, phoney dinner party Islington socialist worker will keep the status quo, in Scotland.
At least with a red tory like Crash Gordo, no one in Scotland was kidding themselves he was nothing more than a red tory, by the time he got the boot.
Jockanese
I posted:
“Point one, I do not think the UK Government is capable of working with any other entity.
Point two, Point one applies.
Point three, Point one applies.”
but it never appeared.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-mansion-house-speech-doesnt-believe-it-ireland-hard-border-a8237166.html
How fitting, it turned out to be. For this speech from Theresa May marked the most significant descent from the high summit of Mount Brexit Bullshit and back to the base camp of reality that we have yet seen.”
Not according to the great BBC r4 vote tory gimp network last week. Although John Humphries didn’t actually lick toryboy Hunt’s ring, he was more than happy to let Jeremy lie like a tory.
I leave this clips from YouTube here without comment. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0x9W9wNkOs
Just seen a report that says Google did a survey on Scottish Independence and it showed 57% for
Anybody know about this?
Dave McEwan Hill says:
4 March, 2018 at 10:18 pm
galamcennalath at 8.21
George Square in Glasgow should be renamed Maclean Square
I disagree….it should be renamed John Maclean Square.
Re Stone of Destiny.
It was rumoured during the negotiations at Northampton before the terms of Treaty of Edinburgh were agreed, that the English offered the return of the Stone which was refused by the Scots. That I think more or less confirmed to the English that they didn’t actually have the real stone.
Edward the first didn’t believe it either, he actually sent 3 expeditions into Scotland when he returned to England. The description of the Stone was that it was black polished stone, possibly meteorite, with writing or symbols and carved handles.
@Dr Jim
There was a Google survey reported in the Scotsman last March suggesting 57% support for independence but it seemed to be framed around an alternative to being out of the EU.
There were no more details though that I could find.
Sarah
“Who is bothering to keep an eye on longtime-inactive Yes FBs? Am I paranoid”
Reminds me of the time some decades back, when I wondered how the Britnats could afford the guy sitting at the back of each local SNP branch meeting taking notes. Then I realised the 70+ bods required to do so was an insignicant blip on the 400,000 payroll.
Of course there are a lot more SNP branch meetings these days and a lot of internet vehicles, but the same scale principle still applies.
I see in Italy the comedic party has won the most seats. They must be a little disappointed May beat them to it back in June.
here’s an interesting one – we saw it coming a long way off!
https://inews.co.uk/news/us-lobbying-uk-drop-food-name-protections-sell-cornish-pasties/
The USA wants Britain to drop geographically protected name status for certain products post brexit so they can sell e.g. ‘Cornish Pasties’ made in the USA here.
Read on and it says, Parmesan Cheese, Melton Mowbray pork pies and…. Scotch whisky.
No wonder T may said in her speech it was essential she had control over food and
‘drinks’ as she goes into negotiations.
So presumably that will also mean curtains for Arbroath Smokies; Aberdeen Angus beef; Stornoway black pudding; Ayrshire bacon;
Lets hope the threat to Cornish Pasties rouses the sleeping southerners to fight against this or it will be a race to the bottom.
Cn’t believe that interview with (t)Ruthless and Brewer this morning. She just talked all over him and he basically gave up. Am I right in thinking the Labour Party went ahead with their conference in Dundee this weekend or is that up and coming in 6 days time? I read something about Kez starting a campaign to keep Britain in the S. Market.
Ottomanboi @ 22:05:
Oh really? Just nods and winks from a safe back row, hoping that others take to the streets and mix it with Nazi-saluting BritNat opponents?
Is that what you propose, or is your “popular resistance” something else? Time to spell it out for we timid bubble-occupiers who believe in the force of persuasion, Mr. One-Man Liberation Front.
My take? Your game is something else entirely: pretendy indy with intent – intent to discredit this site and put people right off…
heedtracker @ 23:32:
Yup, and I wonder how much of that is Orange Order money, fuelling its convenient (though increasingly futile) Labourite front.
After all, look what happened to their decent correspondent Graham Spiers…
Sensibledave = ignorant offensive arrogant British Nationalist troll.
Jockanese Wind Talker 9.42pm
Went on to that gov site to register my views OMG there are plenty of PSB’s cringers and jock haters but added my tuppence worth anyway
This what you were looking for Dr Jim ?
57% indy support ?
http://archive.is/7YI8l
Stephen Doughty, Labour Cardiff, making sense on the power-grab on BBC1. But on another tack, and I’ll get pelters for this, on Doughty’s timeline a tweet from Ian Murray about this:
http://scottishlabour4singlemarket.org/
There’s a bit of convergence on issues, and Ian Murray has actually been making some sense at times. That website has this for an article: “We need to remain in the Single Market AND Customs Union” (Kezia Dugdale), and the statement “Statement from the Labour Campaign for the Single Market” from that group with its signators is also interesting.
@RJS
Yup. That’s that poster’s game.
@ Ottomanboi
You’re no front-line fighter, that’s for sure, but I enjoy those posts of yours – I can sense the anger and frustration that buoys the carefully-understated clarion calls. Some folk here are understandably anxious of that, but I like it.
If you were writing truly incitive stuff then I’m sure Stu would kick you out, anyway, so aye, whatever. Harmless, and keeps my pecker up.
Imagine anyone suggesting putting up a statue to Thatcher in Scotland. What planet are some people on. Thatcher took the equivalent of £Billion from Scotland secretlyband lied about it. The Tories have repeatedly ruined the Scottish economy. In every way they can. The Condems shut down the coal industry in Scotland with high tariffs, and refused a £Billion for CCS at Longannet. Ruining the Oil and Gas sector in Scotland. Taxing it at 40% when the price had fallen. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. Losing £Billions. Fracking in the rest of the UK is tax free. Pays no tax. Westminster are useless. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion, illegal wars causing the worst migration crisis since WW11. The countries in Europe have to pick up the pieces. Sort out the problems costing £Billions.
Thatcher ruined the Scotlish economy and lied about it. Shut down every industrial site in Scotland. Secretly and illegally taking the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland. Spending it on London S/E. Building Canary Wharf and Tilbury Docks. Centralising the transport system and economy through London S/E. Losing jobs in Scottish ports etc.Stopping commercial activity on the Clyde because of Trident. Trident illegally placed in Scotland. Scotland having to pay £Billions for Trident. To support jobs in Barrow in Furness and Davenport. A total waste of money. Scotland paying £3.5Billion for Defence getting £1.5Billion spent in Scotland. £1Billion on Trident. There are no patrol boats to patrol the shores. Unemployment in Govan higher. 3% in Davenport.
Thatcher deregulated world banking. Caused the banking crash. Sold of utilities. Demutualised the Building Societies, owned by their members, sold to the Banks, To casino bank the mortgage books. Destabilising banking worldwide. By the time the Tories got rid of her interest rates were 15%, unemployment was over 3million and inflation was rife.
Now Brexit. The Tories could not make a bigger mess. Labour are useless. The LibDem caused it backing up the Tories. So they could have an AV vote. No one was interested in. To muck up the electoral system. No one will vote for Labour in the rest of the UK because of Corbyn. If he cared he would step aside. Just a Tory sycophant. May could have been voted down on 12th Sept 2016 EVEL vote. Labour have supported her or abstained. Totally useless. .
An Indy Ref is coming soon. Get out and vote for Independence. Vote SNP/SNP to stand up for Scotland. The unionist illegally changed the electoral system in Scotland without authority. To let 3rd rate rejects muck up the Scottish economy. Just a farce.
The Tories stopped coal production in the UK. Did not support CCS at Longannet or Peterhead. Banned onshore wind turbines in England. Are wasting £Billions on subsidising nuclear. Wasting £Billion on Hinkley Point when renewables are half the cost and safer. The Tory slush fund. Cut support for solar and tidal etc. The safest and cheapest,
Scotland is 25% in surplus in fuel and energy. Yet pays the higher price for it. In tariffs and connection charges. Despite being in surplus and nearer the source. A tax on the whole Scottish economy. Scotland is colder and should pay less in unit price for parity.
When people say you talk pish, and someone says they feel sorry for you, its rather endearing don’t you think, i mean, to care so much about your comments to actually take the time to reply to them, just gives that lovely warm all over feeling lol
@Chick McGregor 11.47 p.m.
“Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean someone isn’t out to get you”?
It is funny but rather [very] scary too.
Car company from India opens up in Detroit, they are going to make and sell cars to americans, nobody is blaming Donald Trump for this terrible thing happening, i wonder why lol
@Bill not Ben,
“Lovely all over warm feeling “?
Try a bath.!!
Chic McGregor 11-47
You may not be paranoid. The home Office employed people on a casual basis to attend any gatherings which would be interesting to the Gov. These people were generally out of work service men and were given backhanders of £40 per fortnight when they met their handlers. These guys were operating in the Dundee area at the time of the Timex strike.
yesindtref2
It doesn’t matter what Labour in Scotland decide to do they will follow the UK Labour directives, there is only the UK Lab Party.
In Scotland they gave away any leverage when they said they would never consider Independence.
Just heard on bbc shortbread . Ian Murray has set up a private limited company supported by Kezia far a Labour in single market company
could be interesting .
Robert J. Sutherland says:
5 March, 2018 at 12:53 am
Ottomanboi @ 22:05:
Btw I am not unwise enough to advocate crude violence, simply popular resistance.
Oh really? Just nods and winks from a safe back row, hoping that others take to the streets and mix it with Nazi-saluting BritNat opponents?
Is that what you propose, or is your “popular resistance” something else? Time to spell it out for we timid bubble-occupiers who believe in the force of persuasion, Mr. One-Man Liberation Front.
My take? Your game is something else entirely: pretendy indy with intent – intent to discredit this site and put people right off…
I think the more you go into things the more you’d like to avoid a “messy” outcome.
But what about this Espresso IndyRef2 that everyone’s so keen on? Surely that depends on Westminster playing ball and speeding things along. The alternative is that we do it ourselves — but short of a clear and absolute majority of all voters then we’re in another messy situation with different people claiming authority.
I asked about this before but got no answer.
I am so ashamed of TEAM GB .Wiggins and Coe castigated for their use of drugs and hiding behind medical use.I want a clear blue Sky between them and ethical sports people.
@ Famous15 – I think you’ll find that Bradley Wiggins is now Team Sky and definitely NOT Team GB (BBC)
EU nationals could not vote In IndyRef1 or EU Ref. The Indy Ref was based on GE election qualifucation + 16 year olds. The EU Ref was based on GE election qualification. EU citizens res can voted in local (authority) or EU elections in the EU. That happens in other EU countries. If EU res nationals want a vote they can apply for citizenship.
Bradley Wiggins fell out with SKy. Says it ruined his life? Is he not going into rowing?
@ Ken500 – BBC Sport item insists that it is Team Sky and Bradley Wiggins which “crossed ethical line”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/43280081
Not paranoia, UKOK state policy.
https://archive.is/UNPEW
MI5 agents can commit crime in UK, government reveals
Secret order on authorised criminality by spies made public after legal battle by rights groups
https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/hm-treasury-team-wins-special-civil-service-award
We all had something in common, we’re trying to save the Union here, and it came so close. We just kept it by the skin of our teeth. I actually cried when the result came in. After 10 years in the civil service, my proudest moment is tonight and receiving this award.”
So UK spooks can commit crime in Scotland and we will never know what they are.
UK civil servants work with award winning energy to shut down nation state Scotland.
BBC Scotland relentlessly trying to overthrow SNP Scots gov, monster Scottish nation self confidence and prestige, ofcourse piss very hard on Holyrood and nascent Scottish democracy itself.
A UKOK triple whammy.
Lovely.
@ Golfnut
If Edward I didn`t get the real Stone of Destiny why was it not brought out for future Scottish Coronations ?
@ KOF
Will try to find Chronicle of Walter de Guisborough unless someone got a link to the book 🙂
did the Scots do what Edward did by taking the Stone from Ireland ?
“Is it even legal?!” simpers a beeb gimp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=qR_CsAfbktM
GAPonsonby
?
@GAPonsonby
14h14 hours ago
More
Three points:
1. How is it that a Bill backed by *4 out of 5 parties* is allowed to be described has having been “rammed through”?
2. How is it that the Lord Advocate’s ruling isn’t mentioned?
3. Why “SNP Ministers” and not ‘Scottish Govt Ministers’?
Because BBC Scotland SNP out attack propaganda is going to get SNP out, sooner or later.
Those are quite easy questions really. What MI5 spooks are doing this chilly morning in Scotland, is anyone’s guess.
And so it begins, UK gov decides who can and cant vote in Scotland.
Time to start flexing some muscle on Scottish voting rights. Cameron banned EU residents from his Brexit ref1 catastrophe, so its time to start banning in Scotland too.
Except not banning EU citizens Brexit wise might have saved teamGB from a very unpleasant future, unless you’re very rich and trying to tax evade.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/16064365.EU_nationals_disenfranchised_if_second_referendum_held_during_transition__say_economists/
‘EU nationals could not vote In IndyRef1 or EU Ref.’
They did in the 18 September 2014 Referendum and a lot voted No because they thought wrongly that Scotland wouldn’t be in the EU if there was a yes vote. The same qualifications for that referendum should apply to the next one.
@Robert J Sutherland
Beannachd latha dhuit!
You do sound like a rabbit caught in headlights. What you imply is that if the situation is not ‚perfect’ nothing ought to be done. We just temporise, hang around waiting for the opportune moment to turn up lest we frighten those nervous horses. All very classic SNP thinking.
The SNP appears so hidebound by ‚respectability’ it seems incapable of doing resistance. How to respond to the Catalan crisis got many of its leaders in somewhat of a bind.
The SNP is not the National Movement, unfortunately for Scotland, it considers itself to be so thus frustrating the development of more ‚radical’ and activist choices and initiatives.
Party political nationalism as represented by the SNP may well be on the slide. Its great days ended with the last GE and loss of those seats. It squandered the glorious opportunity by playing along with the system and taking the Westminster seats like good little children instead of walking away from the place and confronting the system head on, as not a few hoped it would.
Now we’re stuck in the Brexit limbo. The system calls the tune. All we can do seemingly is whinge and carp from the sidelines.
Rather pathetic end to a once great cause. The idea of succeeding seems to bring some Scots out in a clammy cold sweat of fear. We have a dream, make us independent….but not just yet.
Ciao!
The numberof EU nationals in Scotland is somewhere around 290,000, most of whom I imagine voted No in order to preserve their circumstances within the UK. If they were eligible to vote that is. The campaign to say Scotland would be out of Europe probably helped them decide for NO.
It may seem odd but not allowing EU nationals the vote the next time will probably reduce the Unionist vote rather than the Indy vote, That is my belief anyway.
Makes things a lot closer.
They did in the 18 September 2014 Referendum and a lot voted No because they thought wrongly that Scotland wouldn’t be in the EU if there was a yes vote. The same qualifications for that referendum should apply to the next one.
They probably did, fast forward a few UKOK years and they are now leaving, “shaken” by Brexit.
Yoons rant and rage at YESers, YOU knew there was going to be a toryboy UKOK Brexit ref1 back in 2014, so shut it.
At least EU 2014 NO Scotland voters, in Scotland, still have their EU citizenship.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/britain-braces-for-an-exodus-of-eu-doctors-and-nurses-shaken-by-brexit/2018/03/04/a0e41862-09d0-11e8-998c-96deb18cca19_story.html?utm_term=.c73736073f19
@ Scot Finlayson,
Good question.
Bruce died leaving a minor as sovereign, he had no illusion that the English would break the Treaty of Edinburgh, sooner rather than later, (within a couple of years of Bruce’s death ), it was believed that Angus Og MacDonald, Lord of the Isles, was asked to take the Stone to safety, the English had already on 3 occasions previosly tried to find the Stone. Angus died not long after Bruce, whether he told anyone his secret we don’t know. One other point, during the negotiations at Northampton, not once did the Scottish commissioners demand the return of the Stone, you would have thought that would have been pretty high on their list, if the English actually had the Stone.
Rather pathetic end to a once great cause. The idea of succeeding seems to bring some Scots out in a clammy cold sweat of fear. We have a dream, make us independent….but not just yet.
Ciao!
Pretty good slam really.
Its your mindset that’s the real creep out though, really really creepy, not just in Scottish democracy either but all democracy.
Ciao
Good heavens, it’s Colin Alexander in disguise!
@Ottomanboi,
When Nelson Mandela was released from prison ,the South African supremacists prayed for him to become militant again.
They wanted confrontation.
Mandela took them all by surprise. He put down the gun and put forward the hand of friendship, inclusiveness and equality. He led by example. Today he is still respected and admired by those he once tried to shift by violence.
Imagine, white supremacists crying because someone who was a leader they admired had died. You will notice I did not emphasise Black, and that is because he showed as much compassion for white as he did for Black .First and foremost he considered himself South African.He taught them a different way. One Nation, and a home for all.
That is how you win the war,and the peace.
Was Ms Sturgeon interviewed on Peston Yesterday? I have not seen any reports about it in the newspapers if indeed it took place at all.
@
HandandShrimp says:
4 March, 2018 at 7:25 pm
In any event I think Holyrood are right to proceed with the bill and it must have come as a surprise to SiU that so many MSPs voted to do so.
=====================================================
I think this was a mixture of – some Labour/Liberal MSPs who genuinely support devolution though against independence and others who though self-serving, are smart enough to see the danger of the devolved parliament being wound up and their own cushy positions endangered.
Anent this Guisborough, this Yorkshire priory was the burial place of the Bruce family, Robert the Bruce’s grandfather’s tomb is there. The family split, the heir became lord of Skelton & the spare moved to Scotland & married into the Royal House. Robert the Bruce’s very successful campaign in Yorkshire was no doubt due to his familiarity with the family backyard! What can be seen from a hill called Roseberry Topping was Bruce territory. The Wars if Independence finished magnates owning land on both sides of the border!
Anent this Royal Family surname business, if they lived up ma close where weans are called after their faithers & nobody has changed their name to con/defraud the Social Security or whatever, they would be called Schlesvig-Holstein Sonderburg-Glucksburg! that’a their real name, but that’s just ma close!
did the Scots do what Edward did by taking the Stone from Ireland ?
Scott
It was their’s to take where they liked. It was reputedly brought over by the Gaelic speaking Scots as the kingdom of Dal Riata straddled both West Scotland and Antrim. It was moved to Scone when the Kingdom of Alba was formed (or thereabouts). If the early descriptions are accurate then Edward got the wrong stone. What happened to the original is moot. In the turmoil of 20 odd years of conflict it may simply have been hidden and the secret of where it is died with those who knew, especially if only a few knew and they died suddenly.
The current stone is a lump of sandstone from Perth and it seems improbable that this came from Ireland to Dal Riata. So either the original stone was lost in antiquity and replaced, there never was a Dal Riata stone or Edward was palmed off with a fake.
Legerwood says:
She was, I watched it. Nothing contentious, or new said. Which is why little has been reported.
She handled it well, but it was just a restatement of her position.
IMO so we will get open admission by TMay that the ‘best’ which can be achieved will be ‘Canada plus a wee bit’. That falls totally short of anything acceptable to Scotland. We will then see more action.
The Black stone was buried somewhere in Perthshire along with silver plates, discovered last century by two boys, the silver plates are in the Museum of antiquities in Edinburgh. the black stone was to be sent by rail to London. It vanished. I read this story in the Scots Magazine years ago.
” Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has ruled out formal three-way talks between the UK, Ireland and the EU about Brexit.
“What will happen is that there will be talks between the EU 27, and the UK and Ireland is part of the UK 27, and we’re much stronger, by the way, as one of 27. “
Whatever you think of the EU, no one can deny they are fighting Ireland’s corner. A lesson on the power and influence of a small member nation when it has the EU at its back.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/varadkar-rules-out-three-way-brexit-talks-as-negotiations-resume-in-brussels-830892.html
stu mac/hand and shrimp
re the number of MSP’s who voted for the continuity bill
I was really annoyed with gordon brewer when interviewing (t)Ruthless the yesterday.
She said she thought the bill was wrong and it was wrong to go against the Presiding officer.
In a normal democracy, the interviewer would then have pointed out that she was in a minority in Holyrood and in fact only 26(27?) had voted against it and 83 ( sorry can’t remember the correct figures) had voted for. Basically 3:1 for the Bill.
It most certainly wasn’t forced through as it was supported by the Slab, SLibdem and Greens. Plus the Lord Advocate presented it.
Only the tories voted against it and that seems like a political move – what are your comments on that then ms. Davidson???
Instead she was , as usual, allowed an uninterrupted slagging off where her view was unchallenged and the actual facts were twisted.
Whatever happened to Donalda Mackinnon’s promise that she would make the BBC less partial???
Ken500, ‘EU nationals could not vote In IndyRef1’.
Why would you say that?
Meg merrilees says:
People who lie tell lies. Simple as that.
Nothing will be done to stop or change the BBC this side of Indy. However, we can make sure more and more people see through their antics. Then, their crude manipulation of news will do their cause more harm than good.
@heedtracker &bob mack
The big question for Scottish nationalists is do you wait for the right moment or do you contrive situations that will present the right moment. In the whole history of liberation movements the latter has tended to be the preferred option.
Modern Scots, ground down by a system in which they are but bit players, have become overcautious.
That caution, however dressed up in language about democracy and humanity, will push the goal further out of reach.
Scots need to ‚grow up’. Independence will not be handed on a plate by the British state. It simply has far too much to lose. If you want it, really want it, you’re going to have to put on your old clothes and go out and struggle for it. The compromising Nats in suits simply dont cut it.
Let Nicola Sturgeon off the party restraints, then perhaps we might see something to really scare the smug opposition.
Re South Africa the have nots of Mandela’s day are still the have nots. Nice words are cheap.
@HandandShrimp
`The current stone is a lump of sandstone from Perth`
you believe that ?
@Chick McGregor: “perfect paranoia is perfect awareness”.
My source: Stephen King via Smallaxe.
The UK Gov is now working cloak in dagger to undermine Scotland’s RETURN to it’s normal state of Independence.
England’s people suffer, legally, in perpetuity, UNDER their Establishment.
Scots are legally, more independent than that. We have OUR LAW ON OUR SIDE.
Theresa May on problems with English housing zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz has she any practical answers ?
Ottomanboi at 9.23
Is that “Ciao!” your final goodbye?
From WoS Twitter:
Wings Over Scotland
?
Verified account
@WingsScotland
13m13 minutes ago
More
Just finalising some donor perks for the 2018 Wings fundraiser, now less than 24 hours away.
I suspect it’s going to be a BIG year folks and we’ll need WoS more than ever.
At the ready….
I now read in The National that Colonel Harrison is not going to take the Scottish Government to Court over the Continuity Bill – maybe she got the message when the Lord Advocate pointed out that if our Bill is not legal then neither is the UK Government’s Bill… but then she has to admit that he was there and her whole case starts to unravel a bit, nest-ce pas?
That still leaves the nutty problem of the Presiding Officer and his apparent, incorrect legal advice – will he recant if the Scottish Gov Bill is unchallenged? Doubt it, – to change his mind would sow doubt and undermine his apparent confidence.
Let’s not forget that during the TV interview, the BBC, Brewer and Davidson have sown the seed that Ken McIntosh could decide that a second Indy ref was also illegal…. then what will happen? According to (T)ruthless, Nicola no longer has a mandate for a second referendum – how did that happen, did I miss something- Nope!
The Scottish government has a mandate for the duration of this parliament at Holyrood, the GE in 2017 didn’t change that – don’t mislead people Ms. Davidson, thats a shameful way to behave. I might be forced to accuse them all of lying.
Folks miss the point about about the stone of destiny. Even if the stone could be verified as fake, the question remains what happened to the original?
Either way, the Stone of Destiny is a Scottish icon that is lost.
If the real Stone of Destiny is hidden, nobody knows where. It is lost awaiting Dan Brown to write about it. If the Stone of Destiny there in front of us really is authentic, nobody trusts the authenticity. If it’s not lost, it might as well be, because the Nation’s faith in it is compromised.
For the record, the Stone of Destiny as seen today does look plausible as a stone cover for the cesspit at Scone Palace, and looks neither polished nor black as described in contemporary accounts. A royal and noble antiquity? Hmmm. If you say so…
And yet, for all the intrigue and conspiracy, do we really want our reemergence as a modern nation to be marked by our anxieties and grievances about the authenticity of a medieval relic?
A King can’t be crowned without it? Err, according to the Declaration of Arbroath, I rather suspect he can…
A much more grievous loss to Scotland was the removal, loss and /or destruction of Scotland’s historical archives by Edward 1.
There could perhaps be some profound revelations about Scotland currently lying dormant in the secret archives of the Vatican, or similarly dormant and forgotten in foreign archives elsewhere, perhaps even in some shady dark corners of London itself.
Bear in mind, Scotland’s crown jewels were essentially lost and forgotten right under our noses, until rediscovered in an oak chest in Edinburgh Castle in 1818. You have to scratch your head how that state of affairs ever came to pass.
Why would the Nation fret so about the Stone of Destiny upon which a King would be crowned, while the crown he was actually crowned with was locked away in a trunk, misplaced and forgotten?
Scottish History reads less like a medieval whodunnit so much as a profoundly complicated whodunnwhatwherewhenandwhy.
One big question is whether post Independence, Scotland can reverse engineer its constitutional and societal DNA fingerprint from whatever fragments and records do survive unadulterated by three centuries of perfidious Union.
@Ottomanboi says: 5 March, 2018 at 9:23 am:
“You do sound like a rabbit caught in headlights. What you imply is that if the situation is not ‚perfect’ nothing ought to be done. We just temporise, hang around waiting for the opportune moment to turn up lest we frighten those nervous horses. All very classic SNP thinking.”
First of all no one is standing around doing nothing. Secondly the SG/SNP are playing a blinder. That in spite of the known SiU activist, Ken Macintosh, exceeding his authority by attempting to overrule an action the Scottish Legal Authority rules as legal.
Now about that petard of yours that you have just been hoist by due to your own actions:-
Yes that is indeed the whole point that you so actively attempt to foster – The wait for the, “opportune moment”, that your handlers are attempting so ineffectively to avoid, and you so actively campaign for only to have real indy supporters ignore.
More battles, both military and political, have been lost by over eager foot soldiers charging the enemy prematurely against their leaders express wishes than ever were lost by military might or weight of numbers.
This dangerous tactic is what Napoleon Bonaparte referred to when he said, “never interrupt your enemy when he is destroying himself”. And everything on the United Kingdom/European Union battlefront indicates that the enemies of Scotland are in the process of destroying themselves while the SG/SNP know the time is not, “The opportune moment”, that you so actively campaign to avoid your handlers having to face.
You are wasting your time here on Wings, for no one, excepting your false flag compatriots, are listening to your impassioned plea to attack before, “The opportune moment”, you and your handlers are so desperate to avoid arriving because that, “Opportune Moment”, signals exactly when your handler’s downfall has passed the point of no return.
As Robert Burns said, “It’s comin yet fir aa that”.
@Ottomanboi,,
Nice words are indeed cheap, but not when you say them to a bitter opponent. They cost much.
If history is our teacher and yardstick,then we must look to Mandela and Ghandi. Both knew that the UK utilised violence as a means of oppression. The choice of weapon in Scotland is the Orange Lodge and hostile Unionism.
What happens if we become like them? Will that pull in moderate voters ,or will it do what it has always done and force people to take sides. One or the other. That road leads to stalemate,probably for decades.
How can the SNP justify talking about representing ALL of Scotland no matter what race,colour and creed,when supporters become ever more militant and strident towards sections of society.
Ask yourself this. Is it the SNP and the indy movement you want to advance or is it a way of dealing with your own impatience and frustration ? If it is the latter that is no good. This movement for independence is bigger than one or many individuals. It is owned by all. You are only one of the keepers of the flame, not the flame itself.
Humanity finds aggression very easy. It finds keeping the peace and being reasonable much,much harder. The way to win is proven and tested. Use it.
I belong to the young generation that the SNP hopes to engage.
Reading the stuff on here I think you stuffy, old fogeys have really screwed it.
Stannah, not too fast, lift nationalism….phew! Soooo hot.
Ciao! Slàin leabh! Adieu! Ma3a salâma! Güle güle!
Got a life to start…..
One final point re the stone of destiny. Historic records exists which show various monarch’s sitting on the stone. in all cases the monarchs feet are off the floor…clearly not the present stone, made of sandstone and originating from a known quarry in Perthshire. The Monks at Scone gave up their lives protecting the real stone. Edward knew he had been fooled.
Our resident halfwit has told me to have a bath, i just wonder do halfwits like him know what a bath looks like, lol
OT. TODAY. A Press Association Report on the BBC
‘Presenters claim BBC forced them to set up personal ompanies’
“A group of 170 BBC presenters have accused the corporation of forcing them to set up special tax vehicles to allow it to avoid paying millions in National Insurance contributions (NIC).
In an open letter, representatives for the group accused the BBC of lying when it denied asking its staff to set up personal service companies (PSCs).
They said they were told they would no longer work for the company if they refused to set up a PSC……” [!!!!!!]
We won’t be seeing this on the BBC UK or BBC Scotland Branch TV News.
Press Association:
https://tinyurl.com/yd9vpep2
@Ottomanboi,
You have much to learn. Experience is a great teacher. I hope it serves you well. Passion is good. Controlling your passions is sometimes better.
The last king to wear the Scottish crown was Charles II, his brother James VII was never crowned in Scotland. William & Mary asked for the crown to be sent south for their coronation but this was refused as the Regalia was never to leave the country. At the Union the Crown Jewels were wrapped in linen cloths & locked in a kist which was walled up in a vault & forgotten about. Nobody knew the location of this vault until Walter Scott did his Rebus & knocked a hole in a hollow-sounding wall. Viola indeed! but sticking this lump of Scone sandstone in beside the crown is a joke!
@Bill not Ben,
You wanted a nice warm feeling all over. Try Radox.
I have nothing to say, it has all been said here, and said here, and said here, and every day, its said here, and said here, it reminds me of that boring film Groundhog Day, has anybody got anything new to say, even if it just to say, hello my darlings lol
You should try botox, maybe that would keep your moothe shut for a few months
Try botox yourself, help to keep you silly gub shut
Digital Countdown Clock, time remaining:
21 hours, 0 minutes and 0 seconds.
Wexcellent 🙂
The minority SNP Scottish Government *Rams* *Pushes* *Drives* *Shoves* *Forces* through legislation that everybody is opposed to says Ruth Davidson leader of the opposition Tory party who every time she says that is telling lies to the electorate as she well knows, because by virtue of being in a minority government, co-operation with other parties is the only way any legislation can be passed in Parliament (ref Tory DUP alliance) her own party in Westminster
So Ruth Davidson whose party only exists as a Government in Westminster because of co-operation with another party wishes to deny any other party the ability to do the same thing
There’s a name for that sort of politics
Fascism
History shows us clearly that the Nazis invaded their own country first using exactly this method
It says much about Davidson’s commitment to devolution that that she would take the Government to court over a bill designed to protect the continuity of devolution.
Not so much a champion for Scotland as champing at the bit to destroy Scotland.
Anent my last, I see that according to the National Ruth no longer wants to go to court.
Confused? It seems to be a permanent condition these days.
Perhaps Ruthie-babe needs the MSP salary after all!
Perhaps the promised English MP’s constituency is ‘Sna aff a Dyke”
Perhaps I should get my coat!
@Bill not Ben,
Ha ha ha ha, Don’t get flustered. Causes more sweating.Mind you, it helps make you feel warm all over.
Ottomanboi @ 09:23,
You talk a great fight, fella, but after all the slagging and hothead bluster I’m still waiting to hear what exactly you propose as a way of going forward out of the Great Slough of Despond that you so arrogantly assume we’re all in…
(…besides shouting slogans in the Gaelic, I mean…!)
@HandandShrimp
Yeah, clocked that. I suspect Ms Davidson may have had someone quietly stressing from the sidelines that may not have worked out so well.
A view from the other side of La Manche:
https://twitter.com/piris_jc/status/970338595482595328
Re: the Lia Fail. If you ask an Irishman, the *real* Stone of Destiny never left Ireland in the first place… but I like the legend of Jacobs Pillow being hidden somewhere in the hills around Scone and then forgotten.
A tiny group of MP’s have authorised the doubling of the Royal Family income, also the £360 million to refurbish Buckingham
Palace. WTF. See Rev twitter a/c
I see it has not dawned on Bill not Ben that HE is the resident halfwit (and that’s being generous).
Coco was binned for less..jist saying.
IndyRef1 was based on GE qualifications plus 16+ year olds. EU nationals cannot vote in GE. They can only vote in Local (council) and EU elections. The EU Ref was based on GE qualifications. The same happens in other EU countries. EU national residents can only vote in local and EU elections.
Look on the back of the Council tax statement to see the EU nationals allowed to vote in local/EU elections.
The BBC and ‘personal service companies’ has been around for a while.
eg July 2016.
Jeremy Paxman ,the former Newsnight presenter, who had his own service company, said the BBC “required me to form a company if I wanted to continue to present Newsnight. They claimed they had been told to do so by HMRC.”
http://archive.is/abv3C
The story is relevant again because HMRC won a ‘back taxes’ claim against one of the people who had been employed by the BBC in this way.
http://archive.is/Maxkz
Interesting that HMRC went after the one person who appears to have stopped working for the BBC when this matter came into the public domain.
The BBC certainly won’t be happy with this suggestion!
http://archive.is/RwkbF
Modern Scots, ground down by a system in which they are but bit players, have become overcautious.”
I don’t know or care who you are or what your game is but the idea that Scotland’s First Minister should have pulled out the 56 SNP MP’s from Westminster, then declared indyref2 and/or UDI is for the birds.
We have a clear example of how states like the UK react to that kind of conduct in Spain right now.
If there’s one thing we can say with reasonable accuracy, UK state elites are more than happy for SNP Scots gov to go nuts.
UK has been and continues to, slowly but surely pull out of Scotland in almost every way possible, starting with their almost zero Scottish military presence(other using Scotland as nuke missile dump) and ending up at their total withdrawal of almost all Scottish green energy subsidies.
They’re not de militarising their Scotland region for fun.
Rather pathetic end to a once great cause, you say Ottomanboi but UK gov’s not of that view.
Ciao
@ken 500,
Sorry Ken but EU nationals resident in Scotland did indeed qualify to vote.They qualified under the Edinburgh Agreement.
Dan Huil says:
Thanks. The entire situation reduced to 12 tweets. Crystal clearly. Worth reading.
For everyone’s sakes, the EU needs to lay out what’s realistically achievable and on offer ASAP …. given TMay’s red lines, that’s ‘Canada’ and a border in the Irish Sea.
Then everyone knows where they stand. Scotland can decide if it wants a different path. And I suppose England just has to sup it up.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-spiraling-out-of-control-according-to-friends-2018-3
Despite massed ranks of beeb gimps backing, covering up and just plain old boostering up Orange Hitler, are the yoons about to lose one of their biggest and most powerful Scots indyref2 Project Fear champs?
@ken500
EU nationals did indeed qualify to vote in the Scottish Independence Referendum of 2014. That was the correct decision. The incorrect decision was not allowing EU nationals to vote in the EU referendum of 2016. People who have lived in the Uk for all of their adult live not being given the vote.
Better Together made a big play in the Scot Referendum that only by voting NO could they stay in the EU. How’s that looking now. British Nationalists never ending lies, deceit and broken promises.
I think most of you when you talk about the E.U. Forget how many of the leaders spoke out against Scotland’s bid for freedom ??? I voted to leave as I do not think being joined to 27 other nations is in any way independence unity is NOT strength it just gives outsiders a say in your affairs and no one will look after your affairs better than you I want independence to mean just that no NATO no UN no special relationship with the U.S.A. And no union with England ,
@Ottomanboi says: 5 March, 2018 at 11:41 am:
“I belong to the young generation that the SNP hopes to engage.”
“Reading the stuff on here I think you stuffy, old fogeys have really screwed it.”
Well you would think so, would you not?
Where were you in the 1930/40/50/60s?
What do you know about the many, many English aristocrats who were NAZI Sympathisers and that included the King of England, who fake history claims had to abdicate to marry a USA divorcee but who, along with the USA Divorcee were NAZI Sympathisers.
The truth being that Edward was forced to abdicate because he was a NAZI. Look up the history of Formula I’s Max Mosely and Oswald Mosley. Read about the Mitford Sisters and try this for size:-
https://www.sbs.com.au/guide/article/2017/08/28/brief-history-british-royals-and-their-alleged-nazi-connections
Now consider the claims of MI5 about Arthur Donaldson being a NAZI and how Donaldson was arrested and put in Kilmarnock prison then transferred to Barlinnie but was never charged with any crime nor was any of the claimed evidence ever revealed. Read about Willie McRae and the still mystery of his death.
Way back then we SNP supporters were being treated like terrorists and criminals. I read, no later than this morning, the claim that Donaldson helped, “Scots”, avoid conscription. My own mother was one of those wrongly conscripted to work in England on munitions by the UK Government even although she was a married young mother. Where did they suppose I should go as Dad was already conscripted in the army?
These were the conscripted people Donaldson was helping not male soldiers but unmarried and often married women with children but the article just claimed Donaldson was a NAZI sympathiser helping, “people”, avoid conscription yet the King of England was photographed, more than once, with Hitler and Mosely was founding the British Fascists.
That’s us, the old fuddy duddies, that know nothing and do nothing according to you. I’m going on 70 years actively supporting Scottish independence. The usual advice to your kind is, GROW UP.
@Dan Huil
Here’s an article about Jean-Claude Piris’s intervention.
“Illusions continue that U.K. might have rights and benefits without accepting duties and costs”
https://tinyurl.com/yb2e7c8y
@Blair Paterson
Does no trade deals also figure in your isolationist world. After all trade deal requires you to meet the regulations set by a foreign power. You could then happily retire to your But’n’Ben.
Ken500, it’s funny but I am sure I have read some of your posts in the past about Catalonia which at the time I thought that sounds bollocks. Apologies if it was not you, but if it was, I now understand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014
‘The Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013, setting out the arrangements for the referendum, was passed by the Scottish Parliament in November 2013, following an agreement between the Scottish Government and the United Kingdom government. To pass, the independence proposal required a simple majority. With some exceptions, European Union (EU) or Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland aged sixteen years or over could vote, a total of almost 4,300,000 people. This was the first time that the electoral franchise was extended to include sixteen and seventeen year olds in Scotland.’
Ken500.
As others have pointed out since early this morning:-
“Eligibility to vote
Under the terms of the 2010 Draft Bill, the following people were entitled to vote in the referendum:[15]
British citizens who were resident in Scotland;
citizens of other Commonwealth countries who were resident in Scotland;
citizens of other European Union countries who were resident in Scotland;
members of the House of Lords who were resident in Scotland;
Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the British Armed Forces or with Her Majesty’s Government who were registered to vote in Scotland.”
That’s from:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014
What we require is one of the lazy news reporters to report what they see on Wings as most of the work has been done for them.
Blair Paterson @ 13:03,
No worries, Blair. Just stay in England and your xenophobic dreams will all come true.
You’ll have to deal with Austerity-Plus and a crocked health system depleted of workers, not to mention other pesky little difficulties, but hey, what’s perfect…?
Anyone interested in the endemic doping in Team GB sport,
here is the UK Gov enquiry,
option for all sports persons is `if you don`t dope you won`t win`,
https://tinyurl.com/ya2q22yc
@Bob Mack says: 5 March, 2018 at 11:49 am:
“You wanted a nice warm feeling all over. Try Radox.”
Ach! Bob Mack, dinna bite. As usual these people all eventually revert to type. Inside every false flag unionist troll is a unionist, racist scumbag trying to get out.
Let him/them get on with making a total arse of him/themselves.
@ Meg Merrilees 10.43
Regarding Donalda Mckinnons promise to make the BBC less partial.
British Nationalists lie. They break their promises. They are full of deceit.
The BBC is a neverending source of British Nationalist lies and propaganda. This statement is beyond dispute. Sadly there are gullible people who believe the BBC tells the truth and nothing but the truth.
Blair Paterson says:
5 March, 2018 at 1:03 pm
I think most of you when you talk about the E.U. Forget how many of the leaders spoke out against Scotland’s bid for freedom ???
But none of them did that. EU stayed out of Scots indy ref1 completely.
As usual, the great beeb gimp network tried very hard to reel them in though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o86F9mxvilM
Terrific example of beeb gimpery really, attack propaganda wise.
“Would it not be better for England to exit on their own and leave Scotland – N. Ireland & Wales in Europe?”
Wales voted to leave.
Regarding Donalda Mckinnons promise to make the BBC less partial.
When a tory says something, especially about their Scotland region and especially BBC, they mean the exact opposite.
So when Donaldo said she was going to win back trust in BBC Scotland when she got the top BBC Scotland job, she really meant something completely different, as we can see and hear every day.
@galamcennalath 1:09pm
Thanks. He knows his stuff.
Rev..’Wales voted to leave.’
That’s not the first time you’ve corrected that one.
To cast Scotland, as part of a ‘surviving’ Celtic Fringe, shows ignorance of the very special status we uniquely hold.
A junior partner without voting rights-in a partnership of blatant inequality.
Robert Peffers 1.04
And what happened if you were a Nazi-sympathasing aristocrat spying for the Japanese?
Well, obviously, nothing.
http://archive.is/0bpIX
Bob Mack: “Try Radox.”
Or even Ralgex.
Unsure why @Chick McGregor says 4 March, 2018 at 10:55 pm
“….but it never appeared.”
I not quite a few double posts as well so it might be the site, try again as these will count as official submissions and eventually historical records.
The Leprachaun shows how to stand your ground, and have self belief…regardless of policy, laws or economics they always had a steely resolve to govern themselves and achieved just that..confidence is what’s lacking in our fellow scots…thats why Hamish is the real deal..fights for justice and decency..that’s why we relate to all his endeavours…heart as big as a lion championing our uphill struggle…what a guy…dai I’m afraid is all puff and no fire…under John bulls heel for too long, and still voting for the red flag..can’t see that changing despite Leanne’s charming voice and smile…