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Rage Of The Ultra-Yoons

Posted on November 05, 2017 by

There was a nice moment at yesterday’s Scottish Independence Convention.

It was widely appreciated by Catalan people, none of whom (so far as we could see) took the expression of solidarity as implicit support for Catalan independence, only for freedom and democracy. But someone wasn’t quite so happy.

Alistair Cameron, as alert readers may recall, is the (ahem) brains behind increasingly unpopular nutter sanctuary Scotland In Union, which has now been mostly disowned by the Unionist press over some of its uglier antics in favour of the comically batshit These Islands.

And boy, was the “HappyBritScot” ever unhappy at some Catalan folk unwittingly thanking him for supporting their peaceful resistance to brutal and violent oppression. So much so that he spent the day huffily Yoonsplaining it to them:

(Other uber-Yoons on the thread were of course telling the Catalans more explicitly to sit down, shut up, eat their cereal and stop criminally attacking riot police’s truncheons with their heads.)

It’s comforting to know they’re equally against democracy everywhere, we suppose.

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  1. 05 11 17 13:56

    Rage Of The Ultra-Yoons | speymouth

187 to “Rage Of The Ultra-Yoons”

  1. David Mooney says:

    Nice to see fascism alive and well claiming to represent “Scotland’s” views.

  2. Chitterinlicht says:

    Deary deary me. What a sad wee man.

  3. Highland Wifie says:

    Poor soul, or as they say in Spain with a a sympathetic tone, ‘pobrecito’.
    He doesn’t seem to have much of importance to keep himself occupied.

    Funny how some people have a selective attitude to law breaking where attacking your own citizens is just fine.

  4. HandandShrimp says:

    Poor Alistair railing from the shores of irrelevance.

    Is his weird outfit now defunct? Doesn’t seem much point now loads of them have decamped to London and These Sceptred Isles.

    I have noticed a few Yoons raising their hands in a Franco salute. This issue really has flushed their politics out into the open.

  5. Helena Brown says:

    We really have some of the biggest erses in the World. These people would have supported Hitler. My parents and my Husbands parents used to say that had he invaded he would have found similar people here to man the gas chambers. We now can prove it.

  6. geeo says:

    On the day a rocket was launched towards Riyadh, a rocket was launching on social media…!!

    Neither hit the target…both were quickly shot down in flames.

  7. Hamish100 says:

    Fascists brit nats also got a saltire waving supporter removed from a football ground yesterday whereas the butchers apron is displayed with all the sectarian comments on it. Hard for Police Scotland and the marshall’s to spot obviously.
    How Labour and the tories need sectarianism.

  8. Ian McCubbin says:

    Majority of Scotland more interested in democracy than facism by back door.
    Mr Cameron fails to see Spain has been first EU country to jail people as political prisoners.

  9. Bob Mack says:

    I personally feel it is nothing to do with separatists as they are called. What should be concerning to us all is that in the midst of Europe there is a government dedicated to surpressing the democratic wishes of a people by any means necessary ,including violence.

    When such acts in Germany and Italy occured during the 1930s ,nobody intervened ,and the rest as they say ,is history.

    Fascism breeds many offspring and none of them are pleasant. To stand by and do nothing only allows bolder acts of surpression to thrive. Experience teaches us that very thing.

    Mr Cameron is obviously an example of such as are his Scotland in Union comrades. When allowed to emerge from the dark places they normally reside, to walk in the light if day, they drag their hatred and vile political agendas with them.

    It is not about separatists. It is about justice and freedom of choice of a people, and about a governments determination to nullify those aims by any route avaiable, legal or otherwise.

  10. Dr Jim says:

    Must be the same people who are trying to stop the OBFA law because, now that’s a Baad law because it criminalises people who are demanding the blood of their enemies, and in Yoonworld that’s not criminal behaviour, that’s acceptable and right

    Wanting a vote? now that’s really criminal behaviour

  11. Helpmaboab says:

    We have many reasons to be grateful for Scotland In Union.

    It’s been a remarkably efficient mechanism for squandering unionist campaign funds.

    It gathers together Scotland’s xenophobes, loyalists, UKIPers, militarists and racists in a safe place, out of the way of decent folk.

    It’s provided a textbook demonstration of the absurdity of Britishness.

    And they’re still at it. The SIU website currently hosts messages of support from those misty-eyed, old-school, Home Counties imperialists Dan Snow and Tom Holland. We must assume Alistair Cameron thinks that they’re just the sort of damn fine chaps to win over the ordinary Jock in the street…

  12. dakk says:

    ‘It’s comforting to know they’re equally against democracy everywhere, we suppose.’

    Yeah.I’m sure we can indeed take some comfort from this Stuart.

    I was becoming concerned that Scotland was developing a bit of a persecution complex.

    I’m now reassured that British Nationalists just really care about doing what’s best for Scotland and everyone everywhere.

    Salt of the earth are the Yoons.Wha’s like them?

  13. Breeks says:

    Is Alistair Cameron a Brexit Separatist then? Country has a right to know if he supports the UK’s secession from the EU.

    What a small minded and bitter secessionist he comes across as himself, and with such a generous gooseberry ripple of cringe and hypocrisy thrown in for free. How thoroughly embarrassing that he’s Scottish.

  14. jfngw says:

    These people are not interested in Spain, their concern is the union. This requires them to ensure that Scotland is kept in a state of servitude and can be shown by their own figures to be a failing country. The worse the news the happier they are.

    After all the current Scottish Secretary seems to be adding a substantial sum to the GERS figures himself, is he gearing up the office for the date they plan to abolish devolution. You wouldn’t put it past them, and the propaganda to do so is in full swing.

    They really want Scotland to disappear as a country, except possibly for the odd ninety minutes here and there.

  15. Mr., Cameron says that the people in the hall do not represent the whole of Scotland well that is also true of the opinion polls they give us they ask a few and try to imply it represents the view of the whole country I wonder if Mr., Cameron makes that distingin when the polls suit him which they nearly always do

  16. ClanDonald says:

    Weird how the ultra-yoons equate no voters in the indyref with people who want to see the Spanish state crush Catalonia. There is no relationship between the two whatsoever.

    But, then, if the yoons want to alienate the many no voters who don’t like the authoritarianism of the Spanish Government, who are we to stop them?

  17. Robert Graham says:

    Busy little f/krs eh ? .

    Anyone on the planet they don’t hate, A very dark sinister organisation fed by money from out with this country in order to perpetuate the grip of the Union,

    This lot go hand in hand with the most disturbing Facist Regimes on the planet , I believe the Spanish government are being used to see just how far they can push a right wing agenda before people begin to push back, just how much will people tolerate and endure before they say f/this .

    The EU are bordering on fully assisting the repression of EU Citizens and trying to hide their actions , The EU don’t deal with regions of member states, so the fine words towards us so far are just that fine words

  18. heedtracker says:

    Horrible neo fascism but lets face it, it is mainstream. BBC r4 tory news gimps endlessly describe Carles Puigdemont as, “the sacked separatist leader of…”

    Fascism has lots of er, followers in teamGB.

  19. Grouse Beater says:

    I blocked him months ago – a monomaniac sloganeer.

    Like all the others he thinks Scotland is only full of Scots, and omits 370,000 English, plus other races living happily here, a good many who want independence restored, or greater political powers.

  20. HandandShrimp says:

    They had Hitchins and George the hat Galloway on the politics show????

    To talk about the current round of sexual scandals presumably. That must have been surreal.

  21. Artyhetty says:

    Any decent minded person would condemn the actions of the Spanish government with no hesitation. We are seeing that nazi slogans are being painted on the outside of some Catalans’ houses for gods sake, and just read that a 12 year old boy was beaten up by some ‘unionists’ for refusing to say ‘long live Spain’!

    It’s funny how some, in Scotland, will loyally accept the UK Tory govs acceptance of violence, yet reject the Scottish government’s condemnation of violence against the people of Catalonia.

    It’s clear that an extremist mindset has been brimming and the othering of some people around the world, by governments and their media, is working just a treat. Great way to control people, economies and countries.

    Dividing people, polarising politics, creating hatred where non should be, win win for the rich and powerful, but they will not come out well from it either.

  22. msean says:

    This, I think, is more about democracy than whether it was a legal or an illegal process.It probably wouldn’t have happened if voters hadn’t been beaten and ballot boxes been stolen,with elected politicians now in jail,effectively political prisoners.In Europe.In the 21st century.

    The next time any one from the democratic EU or west in general complains about banana republics or dictators in other lands,I’m sure those being complained at won’t point to the Catalan referendum and the western governments that didn’t complain to the Spanish about what happened. Seems it is up to the people of Europe to speak out,because their governments won’t.

  23. CameronB Brodie says:

    Let’s see if I can shed any light on the nature of your common-all-garden uber-Yoon, who’s values do little to support the ethical content of the democratic process.

    I think you might need to clue yourselves up on the theories of “constitutional morality” and “just law”.

    Another Look at Moral Foundations Theory: Do Authoritarianism and Social Dominance Orientation Explain Liberal-Conservative Differences in ‘‘Moral’’ Intuitions?

    Abstract Moral foundations theorists propose that the moral domain should include not only ‘‘liberal’’ ethics of justice and care but also ostensibly ‘‘conservative’’ concerns about the virtues of ingroup loyalty, obedience to authority, and enforcement of purity standards. This proposal clashes with decades of research in political psychology connecting the latter set of characteristics to ‘‘the authoritarian personality.’’ We demonstrate that liberal-conservative differences in moral intuitions are statistically mediated by authoritarianism and social dominance orientation, so that conservatives’ greater valuation of ingroup, authority, and purity concerns is attributable to higher levels of authoritarianism, whereas liberals’ greater valuation of fairness and harm avoidance is attributable to lower levels of social dominance.

    We also find that ingroup, authority, and purity concerns are positively associated with intergroup hostility and support for discrimination, whereas concerns about fairness and harm avoidance are negatively associated with these variables. These findings might lead some to question the wisdom and appropriateness of efforts to ‘‘broaden’’ scientific conceptions of morality in such a way that preferences based on authoritarianism and social dominance are treated as moral—rather than amoral or even immoral—and suggest that the explicit goal of incorporating conservative ideology into the study of moral psychology (in order to increase ideological diversity) may lead researchers astray.



    Trust in public institutions plays a key role in democratic societies. To the extent to which individuals rely on institutions such as the government and the parliament, they would be more willing to participate and get involved in public life; therefore, trust in institutions impacts in the legitimacy and stability of democratic regimes. To date there are several approaches to this area that usually compare general trust levels by using country surveys, nevertheless the emphasis so far is mostly descriptive and based on cross sectional data.

    The present paper attempts to overcome some of these limitations by proposing an explanatory model of trust in public institutions to be estimated in a longitudinal framework. The central hypothesis guiding the analysis is that high levels of social dominance (SDO) and authoritarianism (RWA) are important predictors of trust in three types of public institutions: the government, political parties and armed forces. The analyses are based on a panel survey (n=1,800) of university students from the P. Universidad Católica de Chile. Results from structural equation models support the hypotheses, even though there are relevant differences between SDO and RWA in terms of predictive power according to the type of institution in which individuals trust.

    This process is fair because I won: How social dominance orientation moderates the potential of citizen involvement to foster democratic legitimacy


    Increased citizen involvement in political decision-making processes is often proposed as a way to increase democratic legitimacy. A diverse set of voices has called for more citizen involvement including seminal democratic theorists, populists and policy-makers across the world. The general assumption is that individuals uniformly value citizen involvement and therefore involvement will increase perceptions of process legitimacy and consent with its outcomes. In this paper, we qualify this assumption. We argue that the extent to which citizen involvement can foster process legitimacy depends on citizens’ values.

    Involvement can strengthen process legitimacy among people with a low social dominance orientation who value the normative aspects of citizen involvement. Yet people with a strong social dominance orientation appreciate citizen involvement as a strategy to reach more favorable outcomes. If involvement does not lead to favorable outcome, its potential to strengthen process legitimacy is limited for this group of people. The results of a vignette experiment and election surveys confirm that the extent to which outcome favorability shapes people’s perceptions of process legitimacy depends on their social dominance orientation. We urge scholars to take citizens’ values into account when studying the influence of citizen involvement in strengthening democratic legitimacy.

  24. Arbroath1320 says:

    I’m guessing that oor wee Catalonia hater is fully supportive of the actions of the Spanish courts here then. ?

    I’m also guessing that I will be added to his 0.03% or is it 0.04% of the Scottish population count. I wasn’t in Edinburgh yesterday but stil show my support for Catalonia in my own way.?

    Found this on Twitter last night which will seriously upset our wee pro Fascism in Spain supporters group …obviously.?

  25. msean says:

    Spain,it seems,has shown that it is possible to get away with violent voter suppression in the free west.I’m sure other governments with similar ‘problems’ will be taking notice.

  26. Bob p says:

    PSB’s. Wha’s like them? Only happiest when they are running Scotland down.These people are about as Scottish as ghengis khan.f*****g tractors every last one of them.

  27. cuilean says:

    These ultra nutters are so demented, they would like to expunge the word ‘Scotland’ and all things Scottish, replacing it with Great Britain. Surprised May hasn’t renamed Scotland Yard as Great Britain or United Kingdom Yard.

    You know we have been through this Scottish culture appropriation attempt before, with the ultra yoonery. There was an actual campaign to rename Scotland ‘North Britain’ by the English EStablishment asnd their Scots lackeys. Scotland has no shortage ever of those types who like to play court jester to whom their inferiority complexes see as their betters. You see the inferiority complexes in the type like George Foulkes, Billy Connolly and Brian Wilson.

    The Balmoral Hotel, Edinburgh, was the North British Hotel for most of the 20th century. Built during a time when Scottish Home Rule was being repeatedly advocated, this was Victorian trolling of the Scots on a grand scale!

    Of course none of this history is taught in Scotland.Tiem to change that.

  28. Bob Mack says:

    On a lighter note , it is good the Express has suddenly found out Michael Fallon was born in Scotland. He is now a “shamed” Scots MP. You gotta laugh.

  29. loonie yoons no doubt

  30. mogabee says:

    Wee soul, his irate levels must hae been off the scale as he fought the good fight to put folk ‘right’.

    Increasingly I see he is talking to himself, next thing we’ll know he’ll be on the board of vague Kev’s intelligence committee!

    Or perhaps he’ll get his own group with Pammie rolling again. I do hope so as SiU is incredibly good comical value for money.

  31. galamcennalath says:

    Every country has xenophobes, bigots, entitlement junkies, on their hard right. Oddly, although each country’s blood and soil nationalists are fanatical about their own nation, they are quite happy to ally with similar types from other nations when common cause suits them.

    Those same types would be the first at each other’s throats e.g. If Spanish Nationalists had a go at Gibraltar, the BritNats would be at the vanguard. And not in support of folks rights, although that would be the excuse, no, it would be because their national pride and prestige was challenged!

    It shouldn’t surprise us that the über nationalists of both Spain and the UK feel common cause just now, though. Their national pride and prestige is being challenged from within, as they would see it.

  32. Iain says:

    Hope Mr Crooked Nose is taking his daily Simvastatin.

  33. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says: 5 November, 2017 at 12:54 pm:

    “I personally feel it is nothing to do with separatists as they are called. What should be concerning to us all is that in the midst of Europe there is a government dedicated to surpressing the democratic wishes of a people by any means necessary ,including violence.”

    The Spanish constitution that the Spanish Central Government is using to indict the Catalonian Government Officials was passed by The Cortes Generales in Plenary Meetings of The Congress of Deputies and the Senate held on October 31, 1978.

    They also re-established the monarchy at that time. The reason being that the dictator, General Franco had died in 1975.

    Spain, as a country, is somewhat strange in that it was/is composed of 17, (well 16 now), autonomous regions that were held forcefully together by first a monarchy and then a dictatorship but really remained still very regionally orientated.

    Some, including Catalonia, even with their own languages. These peoples, and their languages, were suppressed by both the Spanish Monarchy and the Spanish fascist dictatorship and now again by the Spanish Constitutional Monarchy.

    After Franco’s death the country of Spain struggled to remain united as a country and it was this that saw them re-instigate their monarchy but this time as a, Constitutional Monarchy.

    Spain has long struggled to become a single united country and, going by current central government violence, they are about to regress – not progress. You cannot unify a country by force. It has to be by fellow feelings of being a country.

    Anyway, in 1978, they thought that if they followed the United Kingdom model that it would bind the people together as one Country and their new monarchy and new constitution was written with that in mind.

    It was a bit over sensitive to the previous dictatorship and that was seen in the clauses now being used to indict the Catalonian government leaders. Trouble was these clauses were meant to insure against a dictatorship – not a democratic human right of self determination of a clearly identifiable people.

    The other point to realise is the death of Franco did NOT also see the death of fascism in Spain. After all right up until 1975 the Franco regime were enforcing fascism upon the people of Spain.

    It is those former enforcers who are now in control of the Spanish Central Government and they are now violently enforcing that central government upon the Catalans who, to their great credit, have remained steadfastly peaceful and democratic.

    I tip my hat to them – they will always have my support.

  34. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    5 November, 2017 at 2:15 pm
    Every country has xenophobes, bigots, entitlement junkies, on their hard right.

    No they do not. Throw a dart at an atlas, lands on Canada, Ireland, Japan for example.

    Fact is, UK politics and media is fascist and there is nothing like them anywhere on the planet. They just have to be squeezed a little, under a little democracy style pressure and…

    This is the progressive left they tell the world, the English left. And yet here they are, trying to exploit Catalan, all to keep control of Scotland, as their region, of greater England.

    Graun, Scotland region, Friday 3 November 1917 16.50 GMT

    Catalan crisis creates tensions in Scottish independence movement

    As a Catalan leader prepares to speak in Edinburgh, some supporters of Scottish self-determination are unhappy with the SNP’s stance

    Libby Brooks and Severin Carrell

    Rule Britnatia:D

  35. Bob Mack says:

    The thing is. I am a Nationalist, but I do not feel better than anyone, nor do I wish to see them fail whilst I succeed.

    I love my country of Scotland and I want to see it thrive and participate with like minded nations in building a better future

    It must be gut wrenching to wish your country to fail at everything and to have its future dictated to it by whatever shade of politics has free rein at Westminster.

    Democracy can be difficult to live with, but so can dictatorship, which like the Catalan people, we experience on a daily basis. It is only going to get worse

  36. Jim B says:

    Just wondering…

    What do you think the Spanish goverment’s reaction would be if an SNP government of an independent Scotland were to apply for membership of the EU whilst supporting the independence movement in Catalonia?

  37. CameronB Brodie says:

    IMHO, British nationalism is similar to Zionism, both in form and effect. Then again, are Scots not to a degree “a race constituted by historical damage”.

    N.B. Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all Zionists are blood-and-soil nationalists. Zionists range from the spiritually inclined to colonial militarists. Some Zionist don’t even support Israel’s existence.

    Fascism Without Fascists? A Comparative Look at Hindutva and Zionism


    This essay examines some aspects of Hindutva and Zionism, taking a comparative approach that underlines the ubiquity—i.e. the comparability—of fascisms in the articulation of modernity. It focuses on the imaginary of race, place and peoplehood in each ideology, the roles of majorities and minorities in the formulation of national well-being, and possible exit strategies from violently exclusivist statecraft. It explores, also, an intellectual prehistory in which Indian nationalists cultivated a fascination with Jews and Zionism as part of their understanding of a race constituted by historical damage and the imperative of repair. It argues, first, that the comparative study of fascisms is not only valid, but necessary to the politics of democracy. Second, it argues that because Indian fascism is less racialised than the Israeli version, it is more open to contestation and mitigation by the deployment of alternative imaginaries of ethnicity and nationhood.

    ‘Keep Left for Israel’: Tribune, Zionism and the Middle East, 1937–1967


    This article provides the first detailed analysis of Tribune’s approach to Zionism and the Arab-Israeli conflict from the year of the socialist weekly newspaper’s establishment in 1937 through to the period of the 1967 ‘Six Day’ war. It analyses the nature of Tribune’s enthusiasm for Zionism in this period, locating it within a contested pro-Israel tradition in the British Labour movement. The article argues that the debate inspired by Tribune’s Middle Eastern coverage provides a valuable insight into the dilemmas faced by left-wing journalists and intellectuals bidding to shape Labour Party policy towards the Middle East, and casts fascinating light on the development of the anti-Zionist positions which became increasingly influential among left-wing activists later in the twentieth century.

    Oriental Othering and National Identity: A review of Early Israeli Anthropological Studies of Palestinians


    Israeli culturalism, like Israeli identity at large, is premised on a two-pronged negation-that of the Jewish diaspora and that of the Arab East. Its emergence was assisted, directly or indirectly, by academic anthropology. The formative cohort of Israeli anthropology, mainly male researchers who came of academic age in the 1960s and 1970s, displayed stronger preoccupation with the Palestinian citizens of Israel than is normally recognized. This preoccupation, and the marginal status of Palestinians as a minority trapped within the ethno-territorial Jewish project, render the relationship between anthropological knowledge, Israeli statehood and constructions of Israeli identity particularly suggestive. The combination of these elements, so deeply integrated into Israeli public discourse, resurfaces in a grotesque, exaggerated form, as Israelis grapple to make sense of the Palestinian Intifada of 2000-2001 and of Wahabist inspired terrorism and America’s ‘War Against Terror’ further a field.

  38. GORDON FORREST says:

    Sad little man with a sad little attitude who,unless he changes it, grows a pair and starts to think big will always live in his own sad little world relying on second class handouts from an equally sad and second class little country.
    Perhaps that is what he finds so scary?
    over the years he has been been brainwashed to believe that we are too poor and too stupid to be able to do anything for ourselves so we should be grateful for whatever we are given. While I have always wished the very best for my country and wished the other constituent parts of the uky all the best in their endeavours

  39. JLT says:

    Christ …and they go on about nationalists being obsessive. This guy is in a league of his own. He’s literally taken issue with everyone and anyone who dares to thank the Scottish people for at least believing in the idea of self-determination.

    Alistair Cameron needs to rein his neck in and have a word with himself. Surely he must be wondering that is the Unionist press, who are obsessive in their own way, want nothing to do with him, then that would have alarm bells ringing in ones head. But nope, Alistair growls, snaps, snarls and offends in just about every way going.

    It seems to be true then …those that the Gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.

  40. Brian McGowan says:

    Unfortunately, a large number of Unionists identify Catalonian Independence with Scottish Independence. The principle of self determination does not register with them. Therefore Cataloniabad.

  41. heedtracker says:

    It seems to be true then …those that the Gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.

    Fascist state’s have a very mad blood lust, usually. But UK is not mad enough yet, to use England as its nuke WMD dump. That’s why they use their Scotland region, because that’s what provincial regions are for, if youre a fascist.

    Groovy, but actual footage, and could quite easily be the Clyde, 30 miles from Glasgow, down wind too.

  42. David Milligan says:

    Fascism is alive and well everywhere in the 21st century. At least they clearly present themselves as the real enemy to every genuine person who reads their words.

  43. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    That’s some of the subtlest hasbara shite I’ve seen, Cambot.

    ‘Oy vey, are ve not all like the zionists in some vay?’


  44. Dan Huil says:

    Another sign of British nationalist desperation. A good sign IMO. Things are ticking along nicely.

  45. Andrew Morton says:

    If you really want to upset Alistair, just tweet about SIU being a Tory front organisation. It drives him into a frothing rage every time.

    He denies it so vehemently that I’m beginning to suspect its true.

  46. JLT says:


    To be honest, mate. Fascists are the ultimate set of nationalists and Cameron seems to fit right in there in his own wee way. Not only do they promote their own beliefs and culture of a nation …they want to impose it on everyone elses. In today’s terms, the idea of Empire 2.0 has been mooted, which has then been politely redefined as trade with the Commonwealth. But everyone knows what it is, and with that, hardly any of the old Commonwealth nations are queuing up to trade with the UK (except New Zealand). There does seem to be a sense of keeping the UK at arm’s length as Brexit unfolds.

    That is the difference between our nationalism and Mr Camerons; ours seeks equality, liberty and social justice at home. Mr Cameron’s wants British identity to be dominant in the fields of trade, but if need be, using its military arm to achieve such results if any nation should protest (Gibraltar, Falklands, Middle East). In some ways, it’s simply empire all over again. So yep, I would agree …they are completely mad barstewards (I’m being polite today since it is a Sunday).

    @Andrew Morton

    I am so tempted to do that on this very quiet Sunday afternoon.

  47. Joe Murray says:

    How absolutely miserable at heart do you need to be to spend your time writing such stuff. What a very sad wee man.

  48. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    Every country has …. hard right.

    No they do not. Throw a dart at an atlas, lands on Canada, Ireland, Japan for example.

    Canada …

    Ireland …

    Japan ….

    Alas, they are everywhere. Ideally they stay on the fringes but when mainstream politics moves to the right they find common cause and influence can increase,

    Who was it, Eric Joyce I think, who pointed out that the old BNP were to the left of UKIP on most policies. Where is UKIP now, absorbed into the Tories as they move even further to the right?

    Far right groups, and thinking, is just sitting waiting everywhere ready to stir shite when the opportunity arises. Looks like it hasn’t been very far under the surface in mainstream Spanish politics. And we all know even here in Scotland all the loony right is gaining influence via the Tories.

    Democrats everywhere need to be ever vigilant.

  49. Richard Hunter says:

    I feel sorry for the first work colleague of Alastair Cameron on Monday morning who innocently asks, ‘Do anything fun at the weekend?’

  50. Jack Murphy says:

    VIDEO. A beautiful piece of Catalan music played by the world famous Catalan cellist Pau Casals [Pablo Casals].El cant dels ocells [The Song of the Birds]. 🙂

    Also speaking as a very frail exile at the United Nations General Assembly in 1971.

    In 1938 Pau Casals vowed not to return until democracy was restored. He performed at the Gran Teatre del Liceu in Barcelona on October 19, 1938,his last performance in Catalonia during his exile.

    He never returned.

    Pau Casals 1876-1973.

    YouTube video:

  51. Macjim says:

    Well, he’s right on one point…. it wasn’t all Scots there… the chap behind me in the audience was from Yorkshire and he supports independence ???????

  52. Macjim says:

    Well, he’s right on one point…. it wasn’t all Scots there… the chap behind me in the audience was from Yorkshire and he supports independence ???????

  53. Macjim says:

    Oops, sorry for the duplication
    The ?????? Was an emoji St Andrews flag but that’s what is showing instead.

  54. geeo says:

    Looks like Spain’s fascist reactionary government is driving voters to pro indy parties for December’s fake election. (Fake as in, Catalonia has declared independence, perhaps ‘forced’ is a better description).

    “Sacked Catalonia leader turns himself in, polls show independence strength” –

  55. geeo says:

    Pity the media do not describe the Catalan government as DEPOSED rather than this, ‘ex/former/disputed’ nonsense.

  56. Welsh Sion says:

    We too support Catalonia’s right to having a say on its future. Why are you not surprised you didn’t hear/read about this on MSM?

  57. schrodingers cat says:

    cambot ???
    ha ha ha ha ha ha

  58. Let’s face it these people are not true Scots I mean Cameron Wilson etc., I mean most Scots usually people who want fair play and justice honesty and truth and compassion but these people seem to abhor these values it is like the cuckoo who lays her egg in another birds nest its ofspring will be born in the nest with the other chicks but it does not really belong there that’s how I see them

  59. Dr Jim says:

    Around Scotland people who want change gather together in their thousands to discuss ways of doing that, in moving our country forward, in benefitting our country for all
    We have rallies again in the thousands to voice our collective opinions and feelings

    In contrast the Yoons only have poorly attended meetings to discuss the hatred of others or their rallies (orange lodge marches) to scream hatred at anyone who’s not them, and their media assist by pumping out vile supportive messages to suppress any desire for self determination and feed the Unionist hatred

    Every country who has gained it’s independence from another celebrates that event unashamedly and with pride (The USA) and the rest of the world celebrates their happiness with them, now here’s the thing of it

    It wasn’t so long ago women didn’t have a vote, it wasn’t so long ago women could be assaulted in all sorts of ways with nothing done, it wasn’t so long ago young people couldn’t vote
    We, the voices of progression and reason changed all that yet today in the English House of Commons they still won’t let young people vote, they’re still dealing with cover ups of perverted and corrupted politicians now and from years gone by again assisted by the media then and now only if it’s the one’s the media don’t want while still covering up for and on behalf of the British state BBCs handling of Savile and others because it reflects on them

    Have Scottish British Nationalist Unionists no pride

    It would seem they don’t

  60. Muscleguy says:

    It may have passed your notice but the NZ govt has changed from a centre/right to Centre/Left/Green.

    Not that NZ would obviously not be up for some trade liberalisation post Brexit with the highly experienced and skilled trade negotiators we have.

    But there is the fact that NZ and Australia collectively (they are in a mini EEC relationship with each other) with the EU so the UK will have to wait.

    Also the Tories’ fond wish to turn the clock back willnae happen. Since the UK joined the EEC NZ has found other, long term markets for its produce.

    Be prepared to see lot more woollen goods on sale, there is something a glut in it and prices are dropping so it will be front and centre.

    Australia and Canada are in much the same state. Spare capacity for increased trade with the UK in the manner the Brexiters imagine is limited.

    Then there’s the not so small matter of the weakened and weakening pound. It doesn’t buy as many Kiwi dollars as previously which means that trade won’t come cheap. I expect they will still be able to undercut British farmers but that is more to do with scale of production and marketing through nationwide cooperatives.

    Even under WTO rules NZ farmers would eat UK farmers for lunch. NZ farmers get NO subsidies any more and are exposed to international markets and are much leaner, meaner and more scientific and techno than small British hill farmers with a few hundred sheep. Big sheep stations in Australasia run to hundreds of thousands of sheep each.

  61. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    5 November, 2017 at 3:48 pm
    heedtracker says:

    These are tiny fridge fanatics though. They’re not presenting BBC daily politics shows or routine beeb guest talking heads, like Fuhrage. They’re also very illegal in countries like Germany and trying to get back in too, AFD fascist style.

    America’s got Orange Hitler, UK’s got the tories, UKIPers and Fuhrage, Holland’s got Geert Wilders, France Le Pen horror show, Austria Heinz-Christian Strache, all of whom I know well merely because BBC neo fascism has been pumping them all into their haha UKOK version of democracy.

    None of this is by chance, this relentless pro hard right propaganda. BBC were clearly hoping, campaigning, brainwashing us all for a Brexit domino effect in Europe, which may actually happen just not for toryboy beeb gimp reasoning.


    Why are we not today bathed in the success stories of countries that have split up amicably and successfully, like

    instead of being project fear terrorised again, by say the Graun creeps, and their version of, Scotland is the next Catalonia, unless you all shut up and stay a region of greater England.

  62. Robert Graham says:

    Slightly o/t but not much .

    Just catching up on we hate the SNP Show otherwise know as sunday politics scotland ,

    The two clowns who are presently contesting the Hot seat that is Labour in scotlands leader of the week contest were on show , f/k quite honestly labour are welcome to both of them , Mr Sarwar with a whole string of half truths wins easily he is exactly in the mould of scottish labour , never knowingly telling the truth .

    This severn character of the guardian is one bitter b/rd the only thing missing was a tattoo on his forehead with i hate the SNP , he was bursting a gut to make sure he had a kick at the SNP he couldn’t bloody contain himself , I have never seen anyone actually buying a Guardian newspaper here , do people really buy it ? .

  63. Robert Graham says:

    Back to Brewer on the Sunday hate the SNP Show

    Brewer used a phrase i haven’t heard before ,

    He said UK Nationalists is this different from British Nationalists – BNP – or a more palatable version of BNP .

  64. geeo says:

    Regarding stuff like Sunday politics Scotland.

    If you miss it in the morning, you will not get the ‘Scottish’ bit on parliament channel later tonight, it stays in london.

    If you do not know where to look on iplayer, again, the Scottish bit is omitted.

    Point is, nobody is really watching it, especially after it’s original showing.

    They could proclaim Scotland was destroyed in a nuclear cataclym or a ray beam from outer space, and the vast majority of Scots would not have a clue about our apparent demise.

  65. heedtracker says:

    , I have never seen anyone actually buying a Guardian newspaper here , do people really buy it ? .

    It doesnt matter though. Carrell is just another tory unionist talking head on all BBC Scotland pro UK propaganda. Look at Sarah Smith’s guests today on national tv BBC politics, George Galloway and George Galloway and Peter Hitchens on the Russian revolution.

    How is any of that or any of these characters in any way representative of any actual non tory politics, in the UKOK zone?

    You can see why they picked Sarah Smith safe hands to take over from Ligger Neil.

  66. Scottish Steve says:

    Whenever I read the comments of unionists on Twitter on newspaper comment sections, it really does make me despair for my country. The very fact that Scotland has produced zoomers like these depresses me.

    Today I read a comment from a No voter who said Yes voters gathered at a rally ought to be “ashamed” of themselves. Ashamed of what? Having a different political opinion?

    If this country votes No again in a future referendum, it deserves all Westminster has to throw at it.

  67. yesindyref2 says:

    Sadly in Indy Ref 1 we didn’t have the likes of SIU and These Sceptered Isles, not Average and his merry band, not the loads of posters on the likes of the Herald and other media. All we had was Better Together with a “reasonable” line, though many NO voters I spoke to despised Project Fear.

    Now we do have this lot, and they can be active on our behalf, happily putting the case against the Union while we can afford to be moderate, smile indulgently and quietly laugh our heads off the shoulders.

    More, please.

  68. CameronB Brodie says:

    Bob Mack@ 2:38pm
    I hate to tell you this but you don’t sound like a nationalist to me. More like a moderate patriot. Sorry. 😉

  69. yesindyref2 says:

    Thing about the Guardian is if you put any story line into google like “MP sexual assault” you get Guardian coming up as one of the top 3 (2 out of 3 for that search term), nearly every time. It clearly optimises its online media for the search engines, and in fact having cast an amateur eye over it (re-optimising mine right now), it does.

  70. CameronB Brodie says:

    Reluctant Nationalist
    Got a problem?

  71. Welsh Sion says:

    Off Topic:

    I know it’s the BBC and I know it’s wee Glenn Campbell, but can I at least draw your attention to this and the subsequent TV programme.

    “Donald Trump: Scotland’s President.”
    BBC One Scotland, at 21:00 on Thursday 9 November.
    It will also be available on the BBC iPlayer.

  72. CameronB Brodie says:

    Reluctant Nationalist
    Why don’t you elaborate on the influence “social degeneration theory” had on ‘One Nation’ Tory philosophy, Fabian socialism, Zionism and blood-and-soil nationalism?

  73. heedtracker says:

    Long to shit all over us, happy and ultra rich

    How is the Queen involved?
    The Paradise Papers show that about £10m ($13m) of the Queen’s private money was invested offshore.
    It was put into funds in the Cayman Islands and Bermuda by the Duchy of Lancaster, which provides the Queen with an income and handles investments for her £500m private estate.”

  74. HandandShrimp says:

    I see Severin has an article about Monica Lennon. Six paragraphs 3 of them about the SNP.

    This era will provide material for entire courses on media studies.

  75. heedtracker says:

    Welsh Sion says:
    5 November, 2017 at 6:45 pm
    Off Topic:

    Its on topic. Campbell is a great example of ultra yoons up here. They tag on “Scots” when it suits their endless smear Scotland campaigning, like how a toryboy like Fallon becomes “Scottish” minister all of a UKOK sudden.

    Beeb Scotland ultra liggers are never surprising.

  76. jfngw says:

    Brown’s new history of the 21st century is to be published soon. Such a tortured character, voting for a war and effectively financing it as chancellor. He was in the dark, didn’t have access to all the real facts, you have got to feel sorry for him, haven’t you?

    A man of, in his own estimation I believe, immense intellect but couldn’t spot what millions in the streets could. Anyway I’m off to whitewash the ceiling and hopefully some of my indiscretions from the past, after all I’ve been around a while and certain to have offended someone.

  77. mike cassidy says:

    BBC News 24 bending over backwards to assure us The Queen is entirely innocent.

    Even dragged in the increasingly freckly Nicholas Wichell to assure us – twice – that she voluntarily pays tax!

    That’s ok then.

  78. Tinto Chiel says:

    Cameron, like all in whom The Cringe is Strong, is so twisted by self-loathing and unresolvable cognitive dissonance that he will require the help of an army of psychiatrists in an independent Scotland to resolve his mental corkscrew problems.

    Or maybe he’ll just troll off to The Promised Land Ablaw The Dyke and save us all the trouble and expense of treatment, while he whips himself into a frenzy of orgasmatronic Butcher’s Apron flag-waving.

    Not entirely O/T: I was waiting to talk to a Catalan activist in Glasgow’s Buchanan Street today and noticed him chatting and laughing with two different groups of tourists who were looking at his display. Hand-shakes were exchanged in each case and off they went.

    “Were they all from Catalunya?” I asked.

    He explained they were actually from parts of southern Spain but had wished him all the best because they understood the situation. He claimed this was the common response from most Spaniards who had stopped to talk to him at his wee stall thingy.

    His argument was that, while Francoist elements have persisted in political parties and the government, most of the Spanish people are not sympathetic to fascism and are very uneasy about Rahoy’s brutal response.

    “Whatever happens we will be independent,” he said as we parted.

    Nice guy: hope he’s right.

  79. CameronB Brodie says:

    Reluctant Nationalist
    I just thought a little critical, scientific, background might help folk understand British nationalism a bit better. Sorry if I’m annoying you. ;

    Assembling Identities


    The onset of war saw a fervent, validating call to arms begin to grip the country with different voices detailing the numerous national benefits of impending battle.

    With the outbreak of war came chaos […] there seemed to be no way out except by patriotism. It took everyone like an infection. Strange ideas took the public fancy. Said one patriot, “War is a virtue”. Said another, “We are fighting a war for peace.” Strange figures emerged from the grey mist to float into the golden columns of the press in order to tell the public of the marvellous good the war was going to do.1

    Popular entertainments had long been known as the “fount of patriotism,”2 but in the early days of the First World War, West End revue performance was at the forefront of promoting a justifying rhetoric for Britain’s involvement in the conflict. At its core it was driven by a patriotism of blood and soil nationalism that engaged in a remasculinization of British culture. In a world in which “Germany was challenging British commercial and naval supremacy at every turn”3, the war was presented in revue “as a necessity […] [which] might be the prerequisite of the establishment of a happier world order”.4

    In Britain this line of reasoning was connected to pre-war cultural fears about national decline, and a growing sense of the erosion of British power, which emphasised a nation that had forgotten its true history and greatness; as Samuel Hynes recounts the narrative, “Englishmen had abandoned the high austere ideals of conduct that had made the Empire great, and had sunk into a too-comfortable, too-prosperous Edwardian decadence”.5 A key manifestation of this decaying world was argued to be the changing roles between men and women with the push for women’s emancipation, seen by some as a sign of a culture of regression and degeneration.

  80. CameronB Brodie says:

    Glad I stuck a B on the end of my name or today would be a total downer. 🙂

  81. Brian Powell says:

    The Guardian is now a fake newspaper.

  82. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Welsh Sion Aye go oan rub it in why dont ye , its been burned into ma brain since last week am f&%$inragin at the way Basterds at Bbc Pravda Quay denigrate the Scottish People .

  83. heedtracker says:

    ronnie anderson says:
    5 November, 2017 at 7:49 pm
    @ Welsh Sion Aye go oan rub it in why dont ye , its been burned into ma brain since last week am f&%$inragin at the way Basterds at Bbc Pravda Quay denigrate the Scottish People .

    We do it to ourselves, usually on the beeb gimp network

    The Now Show, is BBC r4 satire that’s died a death but on their new series they have a Scottish dude on, explaining how drunk and stupid and emptied headed he is, because he’s Scottish.

    Its awful Scotch cringe but beeb gimps love it. No idea how its satire either. But how can tories satirise themselves today.

  84. velofello says:

    @ Jack Murphy: thanks for the piece The Song of the Birds.

    Regards Michael Fallon, ex UK defence guy. C’mon let’s play pass the parcel, he can’t be Scots with a name like Fallon, parcel over to you Ireland!

  85. If the ‘majority’ vote for a party that breaks old people’s skulls with a truncheon, and incorporates vicious fascism into that country’s constitution then idiots will take to the airwaves bleating on about ‘separatists’, ‘breaking the law’ instead of heads.
    Scum creeping about in the undergrowth, who would quite gladly sanction English Blackshirts abroad in the streets of Glasgow.
    ON what evidence to I base this outrageous slur against the ‘Alastair Canerons’ of this ethereal world?
    George Square, 19th September, 2014.
    When we finally attain Independence, nut job Brit Unionists will once more flood our streets waving their Jacks and saluting Hitler.
    I am past passive resistance as a strategy.

  86. stewartb says:

    o/t This is some headline from the Independent online today regarding Gordon Brown:

    “Gordon Brown can’t possibly expect us to believe he’s only just realised the Iraq War was a mistake: Claiming he needed a US intelligence report to realise the war was unjustified is crude insult to his own and his audience’s intelligence”

    This is a man with a huge sense of his own worth and destiny, now seeking to preserve for himself a ‘good’ place in history. It is with no pleasure that I contend that this is a futile task. In addition to what the Independent reports, this is a PM that was never endorsed in a General Election at time of appointment and was then rejected by the electorate in a GE. But this pales into insignificance in the context of his likely place in Scotland’s history.

    Any sympathy I might have for this individual given the cards that he was dealt and played is removed utterly by his role in 2014, in IndyRef1.

    And yes, he may well have earned a place in history but only as a character, alongside Darling, in story, poetry or song written and passed down to future generations and recounted with disdain by many in Scotland, perhaps over centuries, in the equivalent of Burns’ Parcel of Rogues.

    He could have been remembered in the annals of history as the ‘father’ of a new independent nation, a progressive beacon in a world that desperately needs such an example. But no, he chose to work to deny Scotland’s distinctive place in the world by foul means. He chose the concept of ‘North Britain’ because of his British Nationalism, not Scotland.

  87. David Smith says:

    “@HappyBritScot” That Twitter handle speaks volumes about his mental state…

  88. heedtracker says:

    stewartb says:
    5 November, 2017 at 8:08 pm
    o/t This is some headline from the Independent online today regarding Gordon Brown:

    Gordo The Destroyer.

    He says he had no idea the City was so corrupt either. He was only the UKOK Chancellor of the etc etc. But its all good now though, the City spivs are all honest and trustworthy today.

    He did destroy Scottish Labour, him and the Flipper. So he’s not all bad:D

  89. David Smith says:

    @Jack Collatin; I hear you, comrade.

  90. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @stewartb –

    Hear hear.

    From time to time I ask people if they can remember a specific press conference in which Brown and Blair appeared.

    This was after abody and their dog knew that the WMD story was bollocks. It was, I’m sure, well after abody knew chapter and verse about ‘the deal’ they had to take turns at being PM…

    Anyway, in that press conference, with only the two of them facing the assembled hacks, someone asked Blair a total killer of a question about Iraq. Blair was stuck. Brown could’ve used the moment to distance himself from the whole Iraq project right there and then. Instead, he got Blair’s baws oot the fire by praising him. Blair, visibly shocked, muttered ‘thanks’ to Brown.

    Wish I could pinpoint when that was, on the off-chance of tracing that footage – it’s always stuck in my heid as an important moment. Anyone else remember it?

  91. winifred mccartney says:

    So the Queen has a ‘very small investment’ in Brighthouse -probably the worst high street retailer leeching on the poorest in the country and yet we are expected to pay for new central heating in at least one of her palaces.

    In 50 years no one will believe this actually happened.

    It is no defence to say you did not know.

  92. twathater says:

    What really really annoys me is TWATS like this brit nationalist separatist have the gall to respond to the Catalan tweets of thanks for support , by informing them that the convention does not constitute the whole of Scotland

    For your information cameron “happy brit Scot separatist” , mundell , tRuthless and the rest of your sorry band of brutish nationalist seperatists ,when you assert that the PEOPLE of Scotland don’t want another referendum you are not speaking for at least 50% of our population

    It is my sincere hope that twats like this and his fellow twats in SIU will leave Scotland and go to their utopia of engerland when we win our independence

    Their preference to be governed by a country who idolise greed ,corruption , discrimination of the disabled , and denigration and punishment of the poorest in society tells any right thinking compassionate person what their true morals and motives are

  93. stewartb says:

    winifred mccartney @ 8:27 pm

    On the monarchy, you say: “It is no defence to say you did not know.”

    I agree. To others that may not know and wish to, may I recommend this as a source:

  94. Ken500 says:

    The Tories will negotiate less for more. Lose the rebate. Pay a higher contribution for less rights and no inclusion in decision making. Even more taxpayers money wasted increasing the debt. So they and their cronies can continue to embezzle public money and tax evade.

    Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. HMRC Spending £Billions on grotesque projects of no value and cutting essential public services. Starving and killing vulnerable people. No sympathy, no empathy. Not nice and dim. They can’t count or read a balance sheet. Warmongering. liars and perverts. Hedge fund bankers in the Gov. Now defrauding public money after bankrupting Britain.

    Unionists don’t like paying HMRC taxes. The Royals tax evaded for years. That is how they acquired their vast fortune. £2Billion. Dodging HMRC taxes. One of the richest woman in the world. Costs £400Million a year.

  95. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    What is entirely ignored is that even if Saddam had WMDs it would not have provided legal justification for an invasion.The invasion was illegal under international law. End of.

    We now face the consequences of the hundreds and thousand of innocent dead victims of Blair and Brown’s infamous support of the US war machine and the West will do so for decades.

    What would we feel like if somebody had invaded Scotland and killed the equivalent of the populations of Glasgow and Edinburgh on a fabrication (and hanged our head of state)?

    Blair and Brown knew they were selling a lie or they are idiots. I know no sensible person who believed the lie.

    I still await an apology from the Labour Party. Perhaps they think I have forgotten.

  96. Nana says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    I do remember something about that press conference, think it was this one

    Type the following into google for the images

    25th april 2005 press conference brown and blair

  97. Phronesis says:

    Spain is forgetting its history, Europe is forgetting its commitment to human rights.

    ‘The European Court has the final authority to rule on whether a state (through its statutory provisions, case law or executive acts) violates abstract moral principles. What it rules on is inevitably an abstract issue of principle which it must apply to all Europeans’
    Lestas G (2009). ‘A Theory of Interpretation of the ECHR’

    Beating and shooting at unarmed civilians, jailing elected parliamentarians, shutting down the media vs democratic elections, letting the people speak – which Europe is the preferred option?

    Castells vs Spain- a landmark ruling

    ‘The European Court of Human Rights held that criminal defamation proceedings and a subsequent prison sentence for a member of the Spanish Senate who had criticised government policy violated the right to freedom of expression. The senator had criticized the government for failing to ensure the safety of the Basque citizens and accused government officials of involvement in the murder of political dissidents, and had been sentenced to a year and a day’s imprisonment. The European Court ruled that an interference with the right to freedom of expression of an elected representative, particularly an opposition member, calls for the closest scrutiny, and held that the government’s refusal to allow a defense of truth meant that the criminal proceedings were an unjustified interference with the exercise of his free speech..

    Accordingly, the Court found the interference was not “necessary in a democratic society” and as a result, it found a violation of Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights’

    ‘Freedom of expression is an essential foundation of a democratic society. It is applicable to all information and ideas, whether inoffensive or offensive, shocking and disturbing. This is particularly true when ideas are voiced by an elected representative. Freedom of the press is also essential within certain prescribed limits, to disseminate information and ideas and to stimulate debate on matters of political and public interest’

    ‘Freedom of the press affords the public one of the best means of discovering and forming an opinion of the ideas and attitudes of their political leaders. In particular, it gives politicians the opportunity to reflect and comment on the preoccupations of public opinion; it thus enables everyone to participate in the free political debate which is at the very core of the concept of a democratic society…’

    Flotsam & Jetsam;

    ‘Photographs of the Basque Refugee Children from the Spanish Civil War by Edith Tudor-Hart: …4000 children who came to Britain in May 1937 following the bombing of the Basque cities such as Guernica and Bilbao by General Franco’s Nationalist forces and their Fascist allies. Arriving into Southampton crammed on the Habaña (a ship with a capacity of just 800) they were transferred to a hastily constructed camp at North Stoneham. It was the largest ever single influx of refugees into Britain. The British government refused to take responsibility for them and instead they were funded by charitable donations by the National Joint Committee for Spanish Relief and other charities’

  98. Brown should be rotting in a prison, never to be released, for his involvement in the illegal invasion of Iraq,

    Brown and Blair couldn`t give a f@ck about the evidence, they were going to war hand in hand with Bush no matter what,

    the war was all about destabilising the middle east egged on by the arms/security industry and the oil industry (equally culprits).

    Iraq Body Count,

    Documented civilian deaths from violence
    179,438 – 201,062,

    Total violent deaths including combatants

    if the two ratbags were really concerned they would be out there trying to bring peace and stability to Iraq after 13 years of constant death and destruction that they caused.

  99. stu mac says:

    Robert Graham says:
    5 November, 2017 at 4:53 pm
    This severn character of the guardian is one bitter b/rd the only thing missing was a tattoo on his forehead with i hate the SNP , he was bursting a gut to make sure he had a kick at the SNP he couldn’t bloody contain himself , I have never seen anyone actually buying a Guardian newspaper here , do people really buy it ?


    I used to donate to the online Guardian but stopped a while back I come to think of it it was after IndyRef 1 so would have been a lot to do with their (mis)reporting on that. Other non-Scottish stuff seemed biased too; don’t mind a different opinion, just want it honest with proper facts.

  100. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi geeo at 5:25 pm.

    You typed,
    “Regarding stuff like Sunday politics Scotland.
    If you miss it in the morning, you will not get the ‘Scottish’ bit on parliament channel later tonight, it stays in london.”

    Sunday Politics Scotland is usually repeated on the BBC Parliament channel late afternoon. Today, it started at 16:15. It was followed by the other “regional” versions.

  101. Robert Graham says:

    Good to see all us happy f/krs are all in the same boat, all contributing to the good and benefit of the nation, Someone is taking the piss by naming the latest f/u to the mugs who actually pay some tax as the ” Paradise Papers ” oh we are all in f/n ecstasy at the thought of so many greedy b/rds pissin over the rest of us . While the Tory government cut the numbers at HMRC well done chaps

    This happy news is released on a Sunday night, during Guy Fox night, and as news of another mass shooting in the USA is breaking, I remember the last time something like this happened, and it was referred to by a Labour Party employee as ” A good day to bury bad news ” This wasn’t broke as a matter of course it was manipulated to make it go away quicker than usual .

  102. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    100% right @Dave McEwan Hill says at 8:41 pm.

    The BritNat Labour Party may think we have forgotten their Illegal War.

    Brown may think we have forgotten his Indy Ref lies and threats in defence of his Union.

    We have not.

    We will not.

  103. Rock says:

    Brian Powell,

    “The Guardian is now a fake newspaper.”

    It is as much a lying, warmongering British Nationalist rag as The Express and The Mail.

    But it is impossible to break the addiction of the Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend.

  104. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Rock –

    That’s you reported for being late.


  105. geeo says:

    @briandoonthetoon, re Sunday Politics Scotland.

    There you ho then…i am an avid political watcher and had no idea it was on other than sunday morning and later at night.

    And i look out for such shite.

    The casual viewer just aint watching this crap.

  106. heedtracker says:

    Rock there’s a horrifying story in stinky olde Graun about Monica Lennon MSP. Its all Labour but hammer of the Scots Severin makes his report all about the SNP and how really really bad they are, despite not having anything to do with Lennon being sexually assaulted in front 6 SLabour dudes she alleges

    There is good news from Severin though, in this ghastly example of how all British hacks are merely attack propagandists, in their Scotland region.

    “Lennon, a rising star at Holyrood, said the incident happened at a Labour party social event in 2013, before she was elected to the Scottish parliament. She told the Sunday Mail newspaper the assault happened in full view of six people.”

  107. dakk says:

    DMH said

    ‘What would we feel like if somebody had invaded Scotland and killed the equivalent of the populations of Glasgow and Edinburgh on a fabrication (and hanged our head of state)?

    Anyone still a member of the Labour Party ia a war crime appeaser.As is anyone who votes for them.Especially that ugly protuberance of a man and fake pacifist Jeremy Corbyn.

    Will never cease to be enraged that Labour were re-elected by the lovely British after committing genocide in Iraq.

    At least the Spanish electorate then had the sense to remove Aznar from office after his part in Bush’s ‘coalition of the willing’.

    Might be interesting to see whether the Spanish electorate will similarly reject Rajoy’s party at the next Spanish election.

    As for the queen not paying tax.

    Maybe the clue is in the name HMRC.

  108. heedtracker says:

    ‘What would we feel like if somebody had invaded Scotland and killed the equivalent of the populations of Glasgow and Edinburgh on a fabrication (and hanged our head of state)?

    Scotland’s not the right kind of comparison, Iraq’s basically a failed state now, with about 40 million population, its more accurate to compare Iraq with England, after a massive invasion like the US/UK’s, from a secular advanced westernised country, dictatorship certainly, like the Saudi regime, but now destroyed cities, mass refugee crisis, maybe 5 million displaced and now refugee population, trying to get into a very reluctant Europe, dying on route, with civil war breaking out in surrounding countries, say Scotland and Ireland, France and further, with no actual end in sight, Russian and US air force perpetually overhead looking for rebel targets, an endless world wide terror threat…

    You can compare and contrast as long as you like, but the actual destruction of the middle east, caused by the US and the UK at the command of Bush neo cons and ref tory Labour, is being brushed under the UKOK carpet. Or as Andrew Neil calls it, a foreign policy error.

  109. Nana says:


    The Belgian judge has released Puigdemont and the four Catalan ministers.

  110. Alex Clark says:


    Good news though not unexpected. Rajoy will be raging well let him rage away, he’ll just make more mistakes.

  111. scruss says:

    “You do know that tweet contains c0.000019% of the population of Scotland, right? Sorry if that’s disappointing.”

  112. stewartb says:

    heedtracker @ 10:37 pm

    You say: “… the actual destruction of the middle east, caused by the US and the UK at the command of Bush neo cons and ref tory Labour, is being brushed under the UKOK carpet. Or as Andrew Neil calls it, a foreign policy error.”

    Completely agree. However, the UK’s ‘foreign policy errors’ are legion in the Middle East context going back to the Balfour Declaration regarding Palestine (see: ) What a legacy!

    If we have no other objective for an independent Scotland – and we do have many – one is surely to work to no harm internationally, in contrast to the track record of the UK state.

  113. Gary45% says:

    Cameron(Hopeless Shit Scot) is a nobody/nawbag/ arsehole.
    I personally don’t give a flying FK about his/its opinion.
    A complete TOSSER.
    I was there yesterday it was a great day.( Happy punters)
    Message to the Yoon trolls if you still can’t work it out where you are going wrong, that’s your problem.
    Unity is better than division,(that’s just a starter) but if you’re that thick!!!.
    Then again the mantra of
    “The Futures Brexit, The futures Sepia” sounds like a throw back to the Establishment dark ages.
    Better happy times than bitter times ( Brexit-Tears anyone?)
    Hell Fking mend yis.

  114. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT bot here. 😉

    Theories of Migration and Social Change

    Gender in the migratory process

    Effects of migration on social change in the country of origin.

    P.S. War has possibly been the single biggest agent in achieving substantive social transformation, certainly over the last 70 years anyway.

  115. velofello says:

    @ Jack Murphy: thanks for the piece The Song of the Birds.

  116. heedtracker says:

    Queen of Canada hits the headlines. You can never have too much money or be too pretty, its the UKOK royals motto. Canada telly is very grovelly to the royals usually.

  117. heedtracker says:

    If we have no other objective for an independent Scotland – and we do have many – one is surely to work to no harm internationally, in contrast to the track record of the UK state.

    We cant go back that’s for sure. A lot of the planet’s biggest problems were and are caused by Brit Empire dingdongs, with a map and a pen. And again, lets face it, exact same mindset is still in charge of Scotland today, no matter how hard we wont vote for Colonel Ruth, future saviour of the 21st century tory party.

  118. Capella says:

    Sadly, there are fascists in Scotland too.
    We need to ensure we have a constitution which guarantees basic human rights. The EU already has that so why Spain is still in the EU is a mystery.
    Why UK wants to leave the EU is less puzzling – although they must now be wondering whether it was necessary.

    A tweet of Spanish fascists heiling.

  119. Alex Clark says:


    Finally some in Europe appear to finding their voice.

  120. heedtracker says:

    A change of tone at the top of the EU?

    Guy Verhofstadt
    6 hrs ·
    With the imprisonment of several Catalan separatist leaders after their proclamation of an illegal independence based on a unconstitutional referendum that lacked fundamental democratic legitimacy, the Catalan crisis is further escalating.

    While we have to respect the right and the obligation of Spanish Courts to defend and to protect the rule of law, the question must be asked if this imprisonment is disproportionate. Are there no other ways to secure that these separatist leaders receive a fair trial and a judgement?

    This is certainly true in the light of the new regional elections in Catalonia that will be held on the 21st of December. Elections while some of the candidates are in prison will one way or the other undermine the outcome. Whether by reducing or, on the contrary, boosting their chances of re-election (as some Catalans will view them as martyrs), it will hinder the newly elected regional parliament of Catalonia to find an outcome to this crisis.

    It’s time for de-escalation now. Urgent measures need to be taken to end the social and political conflict in Catalonia. These go beyond the decisions taken by the judiciary, however justified they may be. Our hope is that the Supreme Court could undo some of the provisional measures and more importantly that the results of regional elections on December 21st, will compel the Catalan legitimate representatives to go beyond legal arguments, and find genuine dialogue and compromise.”

  121. dakk says:

    Puigdemont’s happy expression when he first arrived in Belgium suggested to me he/they had been invited under assurances of succour.

  122. Footsoldier says:

    Michael Fallon’s name source:

    It is of Irish and Gaelic origin, and the meaning of Fallon is “superiority; descended from a ruler”. From the Gaelic word follamhnus. May also be a transformation of the English name Fuller, an occupational surname for a textile worker.

  123. Chick McGregor says:

    Like I said, the EU cannot tolerate having a fascist member state, otherwise the EU project is dead.

    If the hope that the Catalan situation cannot be put back in its box quickly by tacit support for Madrid and Madrid’s fascist approach is maintained, Spain is toast as far as the EU is concerned.

    To repeat a view posted some time ago, ‘if the Madrid leadership think they have got away with it they are very seriously mistaken’.

  124. Alex Clark says:


    Verhofstadt trying to close the door after the horse has bolted. I thought all these guys were super smart and knew better. Seems not.

  125. Robert Graham says:

    Anyone still confused how rotten to the Core this British establishment really is , these tossers are the snooty b/rds who have the cheek to believe that they are the entitled ones, that buy their way through life . This latest leak of financial information is the tip of a very big iceberg .
    On their coat tails hang the ones who protect them from the Plebs , this is the middle class who will fight tooth and nail to protect the b/rds who throw them the occasional bone , this section are the impediment to Independence, they are the managers who in every profession will block any change , who is acutely in charge of major departments and the institutions in Scotland . I doubt very much if it’s like minded scots , they would never get past the interview stage, so we have the middle class closed shop and no one speaks about it , much like the BBC only like minded admitted, or need apply nothing said, nothing to point to discrimination, it’s just accepted .

  126. heedtracker says:

    Alex Clark says:

    Its certainly a big change from his “fake referendum” stuff. I follow him on facebook and he’s very er, human? in that he is a politician and they’re well, you know…

    That’s the problem with different so many different countries and hundreds of millions of people, you cant really know what’s going on. I heard them saying on BBC r4 that they’ve been pumping so much money in to Madrid, its one of the big indy drivers for Catalonia because Catalan’s earning it but Madrid’s keeping it. Sound familiar, from a right wing Spanish gov too?

  127. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert Graham
    As I went to university, I suppose you’d have to call me middle-class Robert. Shall I get my coat?

  128. Chick McGregor says:


    If you put yourself in the EU leadership logic bubble what is the situation?

    First we have Brexit, the UK leaving the EU.

    Second we have the surge of the anti-imigrant parties Europe wide which seems, thankfully, to have been warded off but which still represented a threat to EU cohesion.

    Third we have Catelonia coming to a head which makes Spain’s exit from the EU more than likely if the EU took the Catalan independence supporter’s side.

    EU cohesion simply MUST be uppermost in the minds of those who see the advantages of the European project because it is clearly under immediate and present danger.

    It therefore becomes vitally important that Spain does not leave the EU anytime soon if possible.

    The only window of opportunity they have/had is that the Catalans might be persuaded to go back in their box, that the problem would simply go away, at least for a while so that a post Brexit, post anti-immigrant, Europe could be consolidated and firmed up first.

    That, I believe, is what EU leadership pronouncements of the past couple of weeks, have been about. The hope against hope that the iCatalans will comply and desist for the time being.

    If they do not and if Madrid therefore continues with its fascist stance, then Spain will be leaving the EU anyway because such an attitude cannot and will not be tolerated in the EU.

    I realise that this represents a goodly measure of hopefaith on my part, that ‘rightness’ will prevail in Europe but I believe there is still substantial previous to justify such optimism.

  129. Robert Graham says:

    Aye very interesting Cameron – and the point is ?

  130. auld highlander says:

    I wonder how the yoons will be feeling when they discover that their queenie is stashing their cash in off shore tax havens, only £10 million they tell us.

    And they tell us that she pays taxes, I wonder how little she really pays???

    Poor old Joe Soap working his fingers to the bone just to give it all to her, families on the bones of their arse, pensioners going cold and hungry, kids going hungry, food banks, rent arrears and evictions. It’s no wonder that beer sales are falling, there’s no money left.

    Prices going up and up whilst the rich are getting disgustingly richer and the poor are getting poorer.

    Perverts in westminster, lusting and liquor, groping and fondling, lies, deceipt, deception, fiddling expenses, on and on it goes whilst joe soap sits and watches his favourite propaganda channel offerings totally oblivious to it all.

    Are there any journos/editors out there with the balls to grab the bull by the horns and really go to town and expose them all for what they are or they really a gutless bunch of arse kissing wimps who don’t like to make waves and upset the apple cart.

    One of these days the shit will hit the fan and I don’t think that day is too far away, out there somewhere is somebody just waiting to pounce and catch them all with their drawers down.

  131. CameronB Brodie says:

    The point is, society isn’t simply black hats and white hats any more Robert, there’s lots of shades of grey in-between. We want a lot of all these shades to want independence. You need to look at what motivates folk if you’re looking to change their behaviour. I don’t think indiscriminately poking folk in the eye is likely to achieve that.

  132. Breastplate says:

    Chick, I agree with your thinking and essentially the EU are between a rock and a hard place at the moment as they’re not sure which way to turn.
    There is of course one solution that will get the EU out of the trouble you speak of and make Spain jump for joy.
    A guaranteed favourable result in a future referendum would do them very nicely indeed.

  133. Meg merrilees says:

    Auld highlander

    I heard something on the radio tonight about some HP company the Duchy of Lancaster has involved the Queen’s money in.

    Basically they charge such exorbitant rates of interest on the purchase schemes that e.g. a washing machine costing £600 can end up bringing in £1,600 by the time the terms of the loan have been met and paid off.

    Sounds a huge rip off to me – one def. is not amused!

  134. Petra says:

    @ Bob Mack says at 1:59 pm … ”On a lighter note, it is good the Express has suddenly found out Michael Fallon was born in Scotland. He is now a “shamed” Scots MP. You gotta laugh.”

    Balfour of the Balfour Declaration (Israel / Palestine) was also Scottish. There’s no end to Scots who have aligned themselves to the Union and scr*wed up. Ruined millions of lives. Alistair Campbell seems like another, albeit a total nonenity in comparison.

    The BBC now wants to put the fear of death into people with their ‘Trump, President of Scotland’ brainwashing ‘suggestion.’ Crazy Trump may support independence for a crazy Scotland, so it’s a real bad idea. He’s known to be a very Baad Man, so let’s target the 30% of the undecided and put them right off supporting independence. There’s no end either, it would seem, to the sinister machinations of the BBC. What will they come up with next? Maybe Donalda, ”we’re no biased”, could tell us?

    Gordon Brown, a notorious Scottish liar, is now bleating on that he had no idea that Saddam Hussein didn’t actually have weapons of mass destruction because he didn’t get access to the Rumsfeld Report. People like David Kelly could have told him so. Kelly who unfortunately, and very conveniently, is no longer here to call him and Blair a couple of bl**dy manipulative, liars (and worse still as far as he is concerned). The whole US / UK kit and caboodle should be standing in the Hague and if so this could have suppressed the rise of Daesh, imo.

    I’ve just returned after having a great weekend in Edinburgh which included attending the SIC at the Usher Hall on Saturday. Alex Salmond as per usual gave a great speech and then introduced Anna Arque (a leading grassroots activist of the Catalan independence movement and a founding member of the National Coordination for the Popular Referendum campaign).

    The whole audience of around 1,600 people (or more) rose to their feet when she came on and applauded her for quite some time (and Alex was clearly delighted with our response to her). I looked around and could have cried my heart out (well I did cry in fact). I’m so proud of the Scots. Proud of being Scottish. More than anything I know for sure that I’m on the right side. On the side of freedom and democracy. On the side of supporting national self-determination. On the side of fighting against brutality.

    People like Alistair Cameron represent a rotting, corrupt Union which is no more or less a dictatorship akin to Spain, imo. Both are on their way out and that includes their Royal families who perpetuate this decadent status quo. Individuals like ‘huffy’ Cameron have a choice. Buck up and get real (sign up for cognitive behavioural therapy, Mr Cameron) or get lost and move out, because I (most normal decent people) don’t want individuals like him living in Scotland.

  135. geeo says:

    Just read on France 24 news channel..

    One of Puidgemont’s conditions of release is that he is banned from leaving Belgium without the Judge’s consent…oh the side splitting irony of that…!!

    Fecking love Belgium…loltastic !

  136. Meg merrilees says:

    Well said Petra. So pleased that the Conference went well. It’s all helping to keep the Indy pot on the boil!

    And great news that the Belgian judge has released Puigdemont and co.

    From the Brussels police station where Puigdemont and the four ministers initially surrendered, they were then transferred in police vans to the Public Prosecutor’s Office, where they were to make their declarations, said the prosecutor’s spokesperson, Gilles Dejemeppe.

    It is likely that Puigdemont and the ministers will be allowed to go free, subject to certain conditions while the judge studies the case and decides on the extradition claim. The judge has 15 days following the issuing of the European warrant, which occurred on Friday, to decide whether it will be executed. Despite this, if any of the parties involved are not in agreement with the court decision – which may be the case of the lawyers representing the Catalan government members – they are able to present a claim to the Court of Appeals, which will then have 15 days to make a decision. The final handover of the accused politicians to Spain could take a total of 60 days, and an additional 30-day delay is possible in exceptional cases.

    Sounds like Puigdemont has been excellently advised throughout this whole affair. Hopefully pressure will now be brought to bear on Rahoy and co to release the other Government prisoners.

  137. schrodingers cat says:


    the torrent of bad news has abated

    this good news is welcome

  138. Az says:

    Can’t help but notice the particularly patronising cow, titled “Kate aka Jock”, posted her nasty tweet from “Red Hill, SC”

    That will be Red Hill, South Carolina. So she’s not even in Scotland, she’s in proper redneck country, with the absolute audacity to attach “Jock” to herself, as if “proud”, complaining about Catalonia. No wonder she appreciates the British moniker for Scottish people. I wonder if she was Irish would she call herself Paddy?

    ..and that’s as far as I’ll go with examples of British nicknames for groups of people from other places or of other creeds, for the others turn my stomach!!!

  139. CameronB Brodie says:

    Should politicians not be held accountable for crimes against humanity? Are some of politicians above just law? Do you feel safe?

    The US Invasion of Iraq: Marxist and Defensive Realist Perspectives

    On March 20, 2003 the United States invaded Iraq and unknowingly began an eight-year occupation of the country, destabilizing the Middle East and costing countless lives and dollars. The reasons for US involvement and events during the invasion are still debated to this day due to their unclear and controversial nature. This research paper explains the US invasion of Iraq through two well-known theories of international relations: Marxism and defensive realism. Specifically, both theories examine the causes of US intervention as well as events during the offensive using their unique theoretical frameworks. After assessment of both theories, the analysis shows that defensive realism is more comprehensive and insightful in terms of accounting for the events preceding and during the invasion.

    My Review of Iraq and the Crimes of Aggressive War: The Legal Cynicism of Criminal Militarism

    It would be easy to describe this book as just another anti-Iraq, anti–United States book, which is part of the cottage industry that has emerged in the post–United States occupation of Iraq. However, to do so would be an injustice to the book and its authors. Drawing from the sociology of law, as well as Critical Legal Studies, Iraq and the Crimes of Aggressive War empirically examines and theorizes about the American involvement, activities, and consequences of the intervention in Iraq. One of the key premises is that “the American war in Iraq was an unjust form of criminal militarism that constituted a war of aggression” (3). This, in turn, the authors argue, should impact potential decisions as to criminal prosecution and conviction of those responsible…


    The U.S. decision not to adopt a legal doctrine of preemptive self-defense, and instead to adopt an alternative legal theory, was a very welcome development for maintaining public world order. Invoking a legal doctrine of preemptive self
    -defense could have invited an unraveling of norms on the use of force by creating a precedent for action by any number states who purport to be threatened by acts of its neighbors that might occur in years hence. Had the United States relied on preemptive self-defense as its theory for invading Iraq, there is no easy answer why, as a legal matter, India could not invade Pakistan if India feels threatened by the potential future use of Pakistan’s nuclear capability. By contrast, in emphasizing the myriad resolutions of the Security Council enacted to deal with Iraq, the United States was able to contain the precedent set by its invasion; in principle, the U.S. legal theory serves as a precedent only for future circumstances where an open-ended use of force authorization is issued by the Security Council and then stayed by a cease-fire resolution.

    This article demonstrates, however, that the legal theory actually deployed by the United States is not persuasive. The text of Resolution 678, and those resolutions that followed, along with the associated negotiating history and subsequent practice, individually and collectively demonstrate that the United States and its allies did not have Security Council authorization in March 2003 to invade Iraq. Moreover, regardless of whether one regards the U.S. legal theory as persuasive, the complexity of the theory, its reliance on decisions of the Security Council taken years earlier to address different circumstances, and the clear resistance of a majority of Security Council members in March 2003 to the deployment of force against Iraq, combined to strip the invasion of Iraq of the collective legitimacy sought by the United States.

  140. Hamish100 says:


    How to deal with tax avoidance?

    Deam it the same as tax evasion.

    Or it is a legal requirement to declare the final beneficiary in any company investing abroad including shell companies. If not it is a criminal offence.

    Or for the rich folk who nip abroad to deal with residency requirements remove their passports

    And while I’m on those folk wh come back from oversees to use our NHS . Charge them. Know several folk who came back to Scotland for their hip replacement, cataracts etc. One younger person who left in 2003 came back recently for the full pre natel checks went away then returned to give birth. Now has left to go back home to her adopted home in the. Far East. No doubt to return for the same NHS support in a few years time. Mummy and daddy shrug their shoulders but hate those on benefits. Guess what they are Brit Nats to the core. A bit like HM Queenie

  141. Nana says:

    Brexit ‘threat to UK broadcasting jobs’, trade body warns

    Files from offshore law firm show financial dealings of the Queen, big multinationals and members of Donald Trump’s cabinet

  142. Dr Jim says:

    Todays news……beep beep beep

    World and British number one tennis player Sir Andy Murray due to injury and inactivity drops 16 places causing him to lose the title of British and is now simply Scottish player Murray

    Her majesty the Queen must be excluded for any blame in tax avoidance or evasion scheme as she doesn’t know how to check her bank slips every fortnight when she gets her pension

    Labour MSP Monica Lennon accuses unnamed other Labour person of Grope three years ago which will no doubt bring an end to all sex scandals in the Labour party for which she will be remembered as solving the problem single handedly

    SNP Minister Mark McDonald tells inappropriate dirty jokes uncontrollably and is to be sentenced to death following his resignation as a vile SNP Minister

    President Donald Trump has someone check the map for the location of the great oh so great state of Texas while backing Scottish independence if Alex Salmond removes the wind turbines from his failing golf courses view

    More news on Catalonia now and it has emerged there is no news on Catalonia

  143. Breeks says:

    Nana says:

    Brexit ‘threat to UK broadcasting jobs’, trade body warns

    Big fat chlorine fried Chickens inbound – coming home to roost at the BBC.

    Amsterdam and Dublin are hoping to attract broadcasters eh? Aye? My advice to BBC staff would be to try Spain, if you can wangle a passport.

  144. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says: 6 November, 2017 at 12:22 am:

    “As I went to university, I suppose you’d have to call me middle-class Robert. Shall I get my coat?”

    As a Scot you cannot claim to be middle-class citing going to University as your criteria. Unless. of course, you went at your own cost. Every Scottish person with the correct Scottish educational qualifications can go to University these days.

  145. Socrates MacSporran says:

    With all this stuff about the Duchy of Lancaster using offshore accounts, the people I feel sorry for are the Celtic supporters.

    There they are, having gone along for years shouting about Murdo Fraser and his mates being ever so-loyal to HM, GSTQ, the Queen’s XI and all that, Rangers not paying their taxes, and, all the while, Rangers were only doing what HM does. One plank of the Celtic case removed.

    Of course, with the Etablishment it is and always has been: Don’t do what we do – do what we tell you to do.

  146. Macart says:

    Mornin’ Nana

    Can’t get through the paywall, but if this Times story is correct? Well, it could go a looooong way to explaining the current raft of ‘don’t look over here’ news we’re seeing recently.

    That would be what’s known as yer tremendous riddy for the PM and UK government. OOFT!

  147. Ken500 says:

    The staunch unionists who do not pay HMRC taxes. They support the Union so they can tax evade. The Queen does not pay HMRC taxes. On if the richest woman in the world through tax evasion, £2Billion. The Royals did not pay tax for years.

    Her Majesty Revenues and Customs. Her Majesty does not pay it. Not for staunch unionists. Not paying their taxes.

    The Scottish Oil sector illegally taxed at 40% since 2016. Losing exploration and production losing 120,000 jobs and £Billions. More Oil and Gas has to be imported. The North/south divide. Fracked Gas in the rest of the UK pay no taxes at all. Is tax free. No Corporation tax etc?

    Westminster unionists starving the vulnerable to death. Illegal wars so they can tax evade.

    Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion, The Westminster unionists. Wasting public money on grotesque projects of no value. So they can embezzle and tax evaded. Lining them and their cronies pockets. Cutting funding in essential services, everyone needs, uses and supports.

    The Brexit mess. The Westminster unionists will end up spending more for less. Lose the rebate and pay a higher EU contribution. For less rights and no inclusion in decision making. Unless they are ousted soon. Appalling behaviour. Ruining the world economy. Causing the worst migration crisis since 11WW. Worrying people to death, causing an increase in mental health problems.

  148. Breeks says:

    499 days left until Scotland’s Brexicution, just a shade over 71 weeks.

    Rev Stu- how about a survey / opinion poll? Stopping short of formal Independence;

    Should Scotland petition Europe to recognise Scottish Sovereignty?

    Should Scotland petition Europe to recognise the 1707 Act of Union as a bipartite Treaty of two equals?

    Should Scotland actively move to secure capaciity and competence to be respected as an international interlocutor before Brexit deadline and / or IndyRef2?

    Should Scotland petition the EU for parallel Brexit negotiations and appointed negotiator specific to Scotland’s interests as distinct from UK interests?

    Should Scotland petition the EU for a bespoke ruling appropriate to Scotland’s existing EU membership which neither Articles 48 nor 49 of the Lisbon Treaty can adequately resolve?

    Still hoping you might take a swing at that Annex A Opinion too Rev Stu….

  149. Nana says:

    Good morning Macart

    Saw the story yesterday and like you the paywall prevented me reading it. I wonder how much of that bill will Scotland have to stump up.

  150. galamcennalath says:

    Re Times story, which is behind paywall, “Theresa May kickstarts trade talks by accepting £53bn bill”.

    Either she has caved in big time to the loony right, because they believe nothing is due, OR it’s not quite what it seems. Time will tell. Maybe even Times will tell 🙂

    My guess? I can’t believe she has exerted authority over her hard Brexiteers and is forcing a softer agenda.

  151. galamcennalath says:

    Sorry … mixed up what I meant to say … ” Either she has caved in big time to the loony right, because they believe nothing is due, “

    Should have been “slapped down the loony right”.

    I should read before hitting ‘send’. 🙁

  152. Macart says:


    “I wonder how much of that bill will Scotland have to stump up.”

    Technically? ‘Bout 8.4%, or population share as it were. Actually? Might be a different answer altogether.

    Regardless, such a concession (if accurate), is a major embarrassment for the Brexiteers within government and for the UK government as a whole. It would completely undermine the line that’s been sold to the UK public since during the EU ref to this day.

    How they square this with the public as they catch on, that’d be anyone’s guess. How and ever, misdirection and scapegoating will only keep folk in the dark for so long. As and when the wider public become aware of the scale of the omnishambles, I’d say the response is going to be messy and all over the place.

  153. Baldeagle58 says:

    Breeks says:

    6 November, 2017 at 8:42 am

    499 days left until Scotland’s Brexicution, just a shade over 71 weeks.

    Should Scotland petition Europe to recognise Scottish Sovereignty?

    Should Scotland petition Europe to recognise the 1707 Act of Union as a bipartite Treaty of two equals?

    Should Scotland petition the EU for parallel Brexit negotiations and appointed negotiator specific to Scotland’s interests as distinct from UK interests?

    Should Scotland petition the EU for a bespoke ruling appropriate to Scotland’s existing EU membership which neither Articles 48 nor 49 of the Lisbon Treaty can adequately resolve?

    While I agree with your post Breeks, do you really think that the EU would do anything to help ‘their Scottish citizens’ no matter how much Scotland petitions them, especially considering the way they have ignored the treatment of their EU citizens in Calalonia.

    Also, even if Europe were to recognise Scottish Sovereignty, once the UKs out, Westminster will do with Scotland what it wants and would probably ignore whatever Europe ‘thinks’ about our Country.

  154. manandboy says:

    From todays Brexit Bulletin from Bloomberg
    A view from New York

    “Britain is embracing “an introverted irrelevance.” That’s the view of the New York Times’ departing bureau chief, Steven Erlanger.

    Britain is a “modest-size ship on the global ocean.” It is “it is unmoored, heading to nowhere, while on deck, fire has broken out and the captain – poor Theresa May – is lashed to the mast, without the authority to decide whether to turn to port or to starboard.”

    Renowned for its “pragmatism, its common sense, its political stability and its unabashed devotion to small business,” Britain is now “unrecognizable to its European allies.”

    Theresa May’s version is along the lines of ‘running a tight ship’, ‘on course for a successful outcome’ and ‘everything is under control’.

    Even the CBI is sounding mutinous but yet clarity is as far away as ever. The Brexit story to date beggars belief; either the Tories are playing an outrageous political game or they are the most incompetent and most reckless government ever.

    By accident or design, ‘Leave’ has become a ticket to unending uncertainty with a 29.03.2019 sell by date. Scotland needs to step onto solid ground by declaring a date for Indy Ref2. Not to do so looks more and more like doing exactly what our treacherous neighbour wants us to do – just like the Vow.

  155. Fred says:

    Anent the Balfour Declaration, Balfour’s Highland landlord father infamously cleared the MacLennans from Strathconon. No home for them it seems!

  156. ronnie anderson says:

    (Tory Gov)/ Bbc Panorama release the Paradise Papers ( look over there Queenie’s in trouble ) nobodies interested , they now know the distraction technique’s.

    New defence secretary Gavin Williamson & Angela Leadstorn accused of withholding information passed to them by the Clerk of the HoCs on a allegation of Rape . Tick Tock

  157. galamcennalath says:

    Baldeagle58 says:

    once the UKs out, Westminster will do with Scotland what it wants

    That aspect worries me. There are some extremely dark English Nationalist forces swilling around at the centre of WM government right now. If they can successfully engineer a very hard Brexit, then they can equally easy reorganised the way the UK itself is governed when they get the chance.

  158. Ken500 says:

    1/3 in Catalonia voted for Independence. 2Million. A 5.3Million electorate. 700,000 do not have a vote. Why? Pop 7.5Billion. 1.5million under 18 years. 6Million. The EU supports the majority in Catalonia/Spain who want to stay in the EU.

    In Scotland 62% voted to remain in the EU.

  159. galamcennalath says:

    A good look at the impact of Brexit. Austerity 2 is on its way.

  160. ronnie anderson says:

    I wonder what the CBI membership make of Teresa’s praising of Google’s 100hundred mill investment in britain , thats the Google that avoid paying Tax in britain .

    Suck it up british businessman you & us are paying Tax to cover the Google & other Corperations shortfall .

  161. Alex Clark says:


    Re the Brexit bill, ronnie anderson posted a link last night to a pro Brexit site that covered the Times story. The’re none too happy.

  162. Breeks says:

    Baldeagle58 says:

    While I agree with your post Breeks, do you really think that the EU would do anything to help ‘their Scottish citizens’ no matter how much Scotland petitions them, especially considering the way they have ignored the treatment of their EU citizens in Calalonia.

    Also, even if Europe were to recognise Scottish Sovereignty, once the UKs out, Westminster will do with Scotland what it wants and would probably ignore whatever Europe ‘thinks’ about our Country.

    Well then, if we have nothing to lose, let’s do it!

    But I don’t agree with you. The EU is stanchly against secession and fragmentation of states. Give them due excuse, and the EU will by default invariably side against the secessionist. In Catalonia, the Spanish Constitution gave the EU it’s “let out” clause, and left Catalonia on the wrong side of the law. The Spanish violence and intimidation is a separate issue altogether. I feel sure in the coming weeks we will see more condemnation of Spain’s conduct, but in constitutional terms, the die is cast.

    What makes the difference between successful International Recognition, and getting yourself jailed on charges of sedition, boils down to legitimacy in law. Legitimacy in law does not guarantee international recognition, but the absence of legitimacy in law pretty much kills off any chance of international recognition.

    Scotland however is unique. Unique in our 700 year old constituion, unique in our popular sovereignty, unique in our odious Act of Union, and unique in our aspiration for independence to be more inclusive rather than insular and parochial. Scotland’s “secession” is from the UK’s “greater secession” from Europe, and thus Scotland’s emancipation from the diverging UK to form its own closer links with Europe becomes the paradox of a secession which Europe can properly support – and hopefully encourage.

    But the big fly in the ointment is the current international recognition enjoyed by Westminster’s Parliamentary Sovereignty. While that has recognised legitimacy, we Scottish Independentists have a big hole below the waterline.

    Say for example, Holyrood requested a Section 30 Agreement to hold the next IndyRef, but Westminster refused to grant it. Holyrood could go ahead with the referendum of course, but Westminster has already been given due excuse and ammunition not to recognise the result. Under the UK’s constitution, correction, make that under the UK’s Internationally Recognised Sovereign Constitution, Westminster would have the power to declare Scotland’s referendum unlawful, or more likely, at least non-binding under a UK constitution.

    Suddenly, the case for Scottish Independence is embroiled with Constitutional Court cases which throw’s independence and sovereignty in a dangerous and indefinite state of flux and instability. Scotland might be in the process of breaking free, but still be manacled to the UK as it diverges away from Europe and plunges into its Brexit Abyss.

    In my opinion, a much smarter option is to validate Scottish sovereignty now, before the Constitution of the UK goes into meltdown. With any degree of recognition secured for Scottish sovereignty, even probationary sovereignty, then our referendum will be presided over by Holyrood, not Westminster, and the International Community will not be at all vexed by any question of illegitimacy.

    It is possible, indeed probable, that the EU and International Community May not be able recognise Scotland’s Sovereignty while it remains trapped inside the Act of Union, which is why I make frequent references to a “probationary” Sovereignty. Thus, when Scotland declares the Act of Union repealed, it is immediately recognised as a sovereign action of Scotland. Even if they won’t recognise us formally, it’s something we still have to try.

    A probationary Sovereignty however might also allow Europe to recognise a potentially independent Scotland as a sovereign interlocutor right now, and thus allow Scotland and the EU to come off the fence to negotiate the actual terms of Scotland’s EU status, whether this means continuous EU membership, reapplied Membership, or the holding pen status first mooted by the EU itself.

    I firmly believe Scotland’s sovereignty, and the Union’s misappropriation of that sovereignty will be the battleground upon which Scotland’s constitutional future will be determined. As a principle of strategy, I would see us take command of that ground now and be ready to defend it, rather than prevaricate over Brexit and an IndyRef compromised by propagana, and have to establish our claim sovereignty in a hostile world rather than defend it in a sympathetic world.

    The bottom line is, if we stumble into our IndyRef without taking care of the “sovereignty” thing, then Westminster will have the power to do to Scotland what Spain has just done to Catalonia. The method will be different, the mechanisms will be different, but the result will be the same:- Scottish Independence will be steered up the same constitutional Cul-de-sac.

  163. Macart says:

    @Alex Clark

    Heh! No shocks there Alex and no shocks that they cannot accept responsibility for their own actions.

    They still fail to accept that the UK had fiscal responsibilities which it had signed up to willingly and just as willingly voted to leave the EU. There was never a hope in hell that the UK could walk away from those commitments. They’d have been chased through every international court for the cash and would have lost.

    The EU didn’t force the UK to leave, but it was always going to insist that the rights of its citizens were respected and that the ‘members bill’ got paid in full. Still, perhaps if they had done some homework prior to the EU ref, produced a white paper, made adequate preparations for worst case scenarios, then offered the public a clear and informed choice, but… reasons. (shrugs)

  164. ronnie anderson says:

    O/T . Texas church shooting 26 dead 20 injured Trumps response This isn’t a Guns situation . Well its sure as shit the gunman wasn’t using a peashooter .

    Governor of Texas saying congregations should be armed .

    And Jesus said unto the world Eat Lead Suckas , until the next mass shooting whereby you can eat more .

    My heart goes out to those innocent people & their families but they need to get Gun Control sorted .

  165. galamcennalath says:

    Alex Clark says:

    pro Brexit site that covered the Times story. The’re none too happy.

    Interesting to see the thinking. The hard Brexiteers fantasise about walking away without honouring commitments. That doesn’t seem like a sensible approach when some sort of future courteous agreement is needed with the UK’s neighbours,

    I noticed that other favourite which we hear only occasionally. That is the idea that the UK could ignore the WTO tariff rates and set zero or low tariffs on all imports. This unilateral gesture would presumably encourage others to do the same in return, they believe.

    For me, where is falls down is the idea that trade is simply about exchanging goods – it has to be much more than this in the modern world. We now expect goods to be safe and/or ethically sourced. Trade agreements are as much about recognising other countries’ regulations and standards. Also, it is a bad idea to allow local industries to be completely destroyed by cheap imports, quotas are part of the tariff system of control.

    Free for all trade with no agreements, no regulations and no safety standards, is extreme neo liberal nonsense. Among Brexiteers are a good few individuals whose heads are indeed full of neo liberal nonsense!

  166. Molly says:

    If we step back and look at Scotland in Union they are nothing more than an advertising campaign.

    Their cabal on social media hiss from the sidelines at any suggestions or ideas but the reality is do they campaign for more equality, or to improve anything or stand for anything that would improve the lives of those who live here?

    No they do not.

    They open someone’s wallet to campaign to keep Scotland as it is , giving the impression any change or improvements can only be made if it meets with their approval.

    They are as welcome to live in Scotland as I am but I certainly don’t want to live in their narrow toxic Scotland some of their members seem to exist in so unlike them , I and lots of people I know will be sending a postcard to the campaigners in Catalonia to say , we hear and see what’s happening to you on. A show of support .

    It’s not a big gesture where we can call on some star to support us but is a show of solidarity that unlike Scotland in Union we believe people have the right to campaign for change .

    Scotland in Union – a campaign to keep a fantasy Scotland where we the ‘ordinary ’ people are supposed to ignore Brexit, globalisation and world events and let someone else make decisions for you .

  167. Robert Peffers says:

    @Breeks says: 6 November, 2017 at 8:42 am:

    “499 days left until Scotland’s Brexicution, just a shade over 71 weeks.
    Rev Stu- how about a survey / opinion poll? Stopping short of formal Independence;”

    Well Breeks, normally referendums are, unless agreed previously, only advisory for the person/persons running them. So an SG referendum held without Westminster’s previous agreement that it is legally binding in effect a referendum is a survey/opinion poll unless previously agreed as binding.

    Mind you I see no impediment to the SG declaring it binding upon only the SG which would leave Westminster in the awkward position of outright official refusal to see as binding or, perish the thought, acting like the Spanish Government but without even the lame excuse that it is unconstitutional as we have no written legal constitution.

    “Should Scotland petition Europe to recognise Scottish Sovereignty?”

    Yes and if the SG do not then we, as EU citizens should do so.

    “Should Scotland petition Europe to recognise the 1707 Act of Union as a bipartite Treaty of two equals?”

    Why petition when it is, like the people’s legal sovereignty a pre-union part of the still independent Scottish Rule of Law?

    We should demand that the EU recognize that the United Kingdom is legally a bipartite union of Kingdom that factually contains four individual countries and The KINGDOM of Scotland is thus an equally recognized partner kingdom.

    Yes to all the rest.

    The EU member state is titled, “The United Kingdom”, and the united Kingdom was the result of the Treaty of Union 1706/7.

    It plainly formed a united monarchy, (kingdom), and a united kingdom legislative body at Westminster.

    It did not form a united country – at best it formed a united monarchy and a united political union state.

    It was also plainly a bipartite, not a quadratic, treaty as both Wales & Ireland were long term integral parts of the Kingdom of England before 1706/7. In fact the documentation preamble specifically mentions The Kingdom of England’s Dominions but you will find it difficult to find that documentation as they really do not want you to know that.

  168. Phydaux says:

    I am grateful to Stuart for painting a true picture of events in Spain and for exposing the sinister and ugly sights and sounds of the enemies of democracy and freedom amongst the Scottish Unionists. Alistair Cameron should maybe get a life but that would involve letting go of his bitterness and hatred which seems to infect the body politic of these souls, like a cancer.

    This is a time of great moral crisis, on our doorstep and those who fail to condemn the Spanish Government are condoning it by their silence. I was at the Independence Convention at the Usher Hall and it was heartfelt and moving.

    The think tank of These Islands seems hilariously bereft of thinkers. Think tank, think Honorary Colonel Ruth Davidson brazenly belching out her anti-democratic rants and rhetoric for all to hear and see.It is her missionary zeal to serve the Empire, neglect her constituents and treat the people of Scotland with contempt.
    I confess that, no matter how hard I try, I cannot forget David Torrance’s Weetabix face and that always makes me laugh.

    Relieved and gladdened to hear that no further police action to be taken against Stuart who was arrested and made subject to bail conditions, effectively restricting his liberty.Heartfelt thanks to Stuart for all your effort and slog…once you’ve read WOS, there’s no going back.Once you know the truth, there is no changing your mind, no turning back. The door shuts behind you, and locks.

  169. galamcennalath says:

    Re Texas church shooting. It’s obvious to state this but the problem in the US is their constitution allowing individuals to bear arms. That is the 2nd amendment of 1791. (Which I guess, may well have come about in part because of the threat of the UK!)

    That is not the right to own and use hunting or target shooting guns, but the right to possess weapons specifically designed to kill other people.

    Like the recent Spanish example of what a Constitution says, that doesn’t make it morally right or acceptable by norm international standards!

    Countries need to get their Constitutions more in line with modern civilised expectations.

  170. Greannach says:

    I feel sorry for Alistair Cameron: it must be exhausting playing at King Canute. But I’d hate to be have to sit to him on a long train journey: I’d say he has very strong opinions on British Summer Time and golf club blazers.

  171. Brian Powell says:

    While there are discussions on constitutional issues, policies on a National Bank and the iniquities of Trident, to me I only need to look at Mundell and his position in the running of Scotland and that tells me everything that is wrong with staying with the UK.

    Additionally we had Alistair Carmichael as Sec of State before that.

  172. I would suspect that the Catalans knew the difference Between our country of Scotland and the British nationalist Scotland union website.

    And they were only winding British nationalist Alistair Cameron up

  173. Scott says:

    Re Alex Salmond on the Scotsman paper,I note a letter writer in the P&J says the SNP want to control all the press I just wonder who he thinks controls the press at the moment not the SNP anyway.

  174. Robert Peffers says:

    @Macart says: 6 November, 2017 at 9:05 am:

    “Technically? ‘Bout 8.4%, or population share as it were”.

    On who or what’s say so, Macart? Who decided that particular divisor? Why not by territorial area, for example?

    We are, and this is the actual real problem, far too ready to accept what Westminster tells us is how things are – but are they how things legally are and under which legal system?

    There is only English and Scottish law and no such thing as a United Kingdom law. Westminster, from day one of the union began to make illegal assumptions.

    They assumed thatm for no other reason than the very first United Kingdom Parliament sat in the same chamber as the legally would up Parliament of the Kingdom of England, that the new United Kingdom Parliament was the continuing Kingdom of England parliament that had absorbed the Kingdom of Scotland parliament.

    They still claim that today – Mundell cited a Westminster commissioned paper by their chosen, “Experts”, as, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.

    There isn’t a single word of that statement backed up by either documentary, (textual), or even parliamentary records, (Hansard). It simply is not true.

    The parliament that was born on 1 May 1707 was an entirely new legislative body called, “Her Majesty’s Parliament of Great Britain”. It did not even acknowledge that Ireland was part of the United Kingdom.

    They not only assumed that Westminster was the continuing parliament of the Kingdom of England but have from day one until today that Westminster legislates under the rule of law of the Kingdom of England and furthermore they assume that Westminster/England are sovereign over Scotland.

    However, no where in the Treaty of Union does it say that. In fact the reason that the Treaty declares the two legal systems must remain forever sacrosanct is because they cannot be reconciled together. So also with, among other matters, the monarchy never being the head of Scottish churches and the Scottish Education system remaining independent. So also the Scottish Health service and police. You cannot have a United Kingdom police force when the two legal systems are independent and different.

    The whole concept, generally accepted but accepted wrongly, of the United Kingdom being actually a united single country cannot be legally accepted unless either, or both, English or Scottish law is abolished.

  175. Robert Peffers says:


    BBC \t it again.
    They report. “NHS offers smartphone GP appointments”

    No indication of whether that is the Scottish, Welsh or Irish NHS or the UK/de facto English NHS they refer to.

  176. Jack Murphy says:

    On my Break I’ve just been watching last night’s Panorama TV programme about Overseas Tax on BBC iPlayer.

    The last few seconds is devoted to trailing tonight’s [Monday 9pm BBC 1] Panorama programme.

    Part of the trail is :
    “and the TV stars on the fiddle”,with a camera outside what appears to be BBC Scotland at Pacific Quay.

    Here’s the BBC iPlayer link. The trail comes in at 30 minutes approx.

  177. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Nana (8.46 last night) –

    Cheers for that Nana, but I couldn’t find the thing I remember. The date looks about right though – will keep hunting and let ye know if I ever find it!


  178. cirsium says:

    @galamcennalath, 11.21am

    That is the 2nd amendment of 1791. (Which I guess, may well have come about in part because of the threat of the UK!)

    No, the threat was from the Indian Nations, the indigenous population, who were fighting to stop the theft of their land. The US was founded on settler colonialism.

  179. Graham Rae says:

    I was there, I held aloft a paper, and I object to being called a ‘separatist’ by this Cameron maggot. His deranged obsession with telling random strangers on the net his warped crackpotty views is hilarious though, I must admit. Clearly too much time on his hands in the asylum.

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