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Meet The Ultra-Yoons

Posted on October 14, 2016 by

Hardcore nutter collective Scotland In Union are already the de facto unofficial No campaign group for the second independence referendum.

Evidently very well-connected and already flush with cash from sources unknown, the limited company recently raised a reported £300,000 for itself at a “charity” dinner attended by such luminaries of the great and the good as Lord Alistair Darling, Lord Dunlop and (um) Willie Rennie, auctioning off exotic high-end goodies like hunting trips to Africa, polo parties with the Maharajah of Jodhpur and Alpine holidays described in the lavish 60-page auction catalogue as featuring:

“A fabulous chalet and a family home, with six bedrooms sleeping 12, all en suite. Although the chalet does not come with a chalet girl, we will provide one for you.”

(There were also some signed JK Rowling books for the paupers.)

So that’s nice. Extremely wealthy people – just getting into the dinner was £250 – who are doing very well out of the way things are, donating big wads of money to some other people trying to ensure that the rich folk stay that way. No law against it. But just who are the true believers rushing bravely to the defence of the Union’s elites?


The organisation puts on small and secretive speaking events featuring lunatics like Jill Stephenson and Tom Gallagher for elderly audiences of Unionists, and its directors and advisory board include the likes of perpetually-furious social media madcase Neil Lovatt (below left with Archie MacPerson) and all-round nasty piece of work Andrew Skinner (below right, and above cuddling super-rich BBC posh boy Dan Snow).


Skinner is a man who regularly wipes his Twitter history so that no record of his more intemperate and distasteful ragings can be found, unless people have fortuitously had the foresight to take screenshots of them.


(His current account has just 249 tweets on it, none from before this July, despite its ostensibly having been created in January 2011. He’s most noted for the spectacularly unsuccessful anti-SNP tactical voting campaign of the 2015 general election, and for creating a petition to get the Oxford English Dictionary to change the definition of “subsequently” because it contained a usage-example reference to the 1707 Act Of Union which Skinner had misinterpreted to refer to the 2014 referendum. He was also behind highly abusive Facebook pages like the now-deleted “VoteNo2014”.)


Another advisory-board member is Jim Gallagher, a former Whitehall civil servant who was Director Of Research for “Better Together” during the referendum, and appeared in numerous newspapers this week as author of a deranged fantasy piece about how wonderful life would be for Scotland inside a unicorns-and-kittens post-Brexit UK, with no mention made of his positions in either BT or SIU.


But relatively little is known of the group’s “Executive Director”, Alistair Cameron, other than that he successfully menaced a £10,000 charity donation out of troubled Glasgow East MP Natalie McGarry with a threat of legal action, after she accidentally confused him with Holocaust-denying super-Unionist loonjob Alistair McConnachie, pictured below. (Despite her deleting the inaccurate tweet within hours and issuing an apology.)


So we thought you might like to hear Cameron’s appearance on Talk Radio today, being very gently interviewed by 1990s Big Breakfast presenter Paul Ross but still managing to sound like an angry man trembling on the verge of a nervous breakdown.



Who knew he’d be such a fan of Braveheart, eh?

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490 to “Meet The Ultra-Yoons”

  1. Bob Mack says:

    Looks like wee Billy Bremner. So, they have been hired to front the fight against indy.
    The Vikings used to call their first assault troops the “Berserkers”. Perhaps in this case it is close to the truth.
    You have to wonder at the selection of the barely literate to lead their campaign,but then again— may appeal to a certain audience if you get my drift.

  2. mumsyhugs says:

    So when’s our next fundraiser Rev? Just give the word ….. 🙂

  3. Johnny says:

    What a pleasure to hear a journo at least challenge some of the toon guff he spouted.

  4. yesindyref2 says:

    Seriously folks, I think the word “Yoons” should only be used for hardcore over the top extreme Unionists.


  5. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    It is these examples of Yoon idiocy and hauteur (Tim nice but Dim) I would give an arm and a leg to see purged in an independent Scotland.

    The Irish managed to get rid of the most part of their Ascendency,

    Land reform has to be the key.

  6. Al Ba says:

    Poor wee soul, bitter much, needs to get over himself, wonder if he’ll move south after the next referendum ..

  7. defo says:

    Inaccuracy from start to finish, apart from the braveheart bit.
    What an angry wee radge. This bawbag needs sorting out. Embra is my home town too, maybe we might bump into each other. 😉
    “I used to be in the army” Quelle surprise.
    Salvation army more like.

  8. ross says:

    Hearing that bam talk has ruined my night, thanks rev?
    I started my evening ‘uppity’ after a long day at work. Now im ‘uppity as fuck’

    Fair play to Paul Ross, he seemed to think the yoon was talkin shite aswell

  9. shiregirl says:

    Andrew Skinner looks so angry and uptight. All the time.

    Guess it’s de rigueur for that yoonist look…

    …that and the sanpaku eyes.

    Mentalists. The lot of them.

  10. bookie from hell says:

    He’s waffling bigtime Irish Border ( : > )

  11. ross says:

    That wasnt a question rev. It was supposed to be a winky emoji thing!

  12. Not a bad interviewer… these questions are not normally asked of Yoons…

  13. Scott Cameron says:

    Funny how they hold up Archie MacPherson as some sort of expert. I remember working with a guy who told me that Archie used to “visit” his pal’s mum anytime Sportscene were broadcasting in Dundee. He went round once and got his autograph. I joked if his pal’s mum ever claimed that Archie went “woooooooofffff” at the point of climax?

  14. Fatweegee says:

    They were on Dunfermline High Street a couple of Saturday’s back, looked a right bunch of fandans and weren’t getting much attention .

  15. Mike Lothian says:

    Was quite impressed by the host of the show to be honest, seemed quite clued up, or at least knew most of the counter arguements

  16. jimnarlene says:

    Not only the de facto no campaign, but probably the no campaign.
    The Tories are still political poison, with their own internal struggles.
    Slab are a shadow of their former self, and would fade even further if they stood, shoulder to shoulder, with the Tories again, not to mention the branch office is skint.
    Finally the liberals are an irrelevance.

  17. Yesitis says:

    Alastair Cameron there sounding very…Edinburgh New Town. He comes across as someone raised in the military – in the 19th century.
    A landowner type who would be prepared to do bad things for his country. An anachronism.

    Goodness knows what he will be reduced to doing and saying as Indyref2 arrives.

  18. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

    Fuc’in’ Yoonie Toonz lining up for a severe democratic doing from the uppity Sweaties.

    PS Who in the devil is PAUL ROSS? Never heard of this sniveling chap until the fox in the video exposed the Barra Boy fellow.

    Is he a bunged Brit stooge with media performance pretensions?

    PPS The Sally Army would not touch this Brigade of Guards’ chanters with the Auld Rugged Cross itself.

  19. harry mcaye says:

    Paul Ross was pretty good there, apart from knocking 1.3 million off of our population.

  20. K1 says:

    Changed days having the host coming back with ‘our’ pov to the yoony tunes.

    It’s going to be an entirely different campaign form indyref1. They are on the ‘backfoot’. Also that laddie came across as ‘desperate’ and aggressive. Ye have to question the motives of those who are determined to dissemble to this degree, SNP bashing isn’t going to cut it this time, as the host pointed out to him, this isn’t just ‘callers’ who are part of the SNP making these observations.

  21. heedtracker says:

    Oh dear. Another roaster. What is it these guys and a movie? Braveheart’s a 90’s Holyrood block buster starring Mel Gibson and that’s it. You cant turn on Scottish tv or radio without there being some history drama about England to watch, about almost all historic events from their past. Mostly royalty though. And why not, they’re gods on earth.

    Also but not only, Billy Connolly’s famously yoon but he used to moan about not being asked to be in Braveheart, because he’s so Scottish:D

  22. Hekpmaboab says:

    Well. That interview with Ruth Davidson’s correspondent Alistair Cameron was very revealing.

    He has the true, braying, inarticulate, slightly-trembling, spittle-flecked voice of the officer class. He used the words ‘separatist’, ‘grievance’ and, gulp, ‘frightfully uppity.’

    The comic eccentrics who used to be dismissed as yoons or nawbags are rapidly becoming the unionist mainstream, I fear…

  23. h_johnny says:

    How the hell can lots of you have not heard of Paul Ross? Johnathan Ross brother, he is a legend!

  24. The Knome says:

    Well in my quest for inteligent debate I have a few issues to raise:

    First, its not economically viable,,, please cite credible sources. Your opinions dont have any value as facts.

    Second, goes on about history, cites only one book worth reading. If I did that to write an essay for my grades? ide flunk. Because 1 book does not give anyone a thorough coverage of events, and each has their agenda upon writing.

    Third, borders. Seriously fuck off with this shite. I know Little England is extremely isolationist but borders are a recent invention, literally there were no borders pre ww2, you went where you liked and didn’t need a passport.
    The only toss pot sticking up borders are people like you.

    Fourth, big player in the world.
    Yeahhhhhhh,,,, about that,,,, big player is not what you think it is. Rather like the fragmented English NHS destroys its buying power you really think, this small set of isles is in anyway a world power?
    We cant even close down the tax havens we own that are destroying the world! Even the US is not a big world power no matter what you are told, the fact its so reliant on deals like TTIP to try and give it some edge tells you that the reality is, every nation is desperate.

    As to respecting votes, no vote is respectable without a 2/3rds majority to be honest. And a vote won on lies is nothing to be so fucking proud of.
    If thats all you have to win? then this old fact rings ever more true:

    “Whatever happened to “In victory, magnanimity; in defeat, defiance.” So said Frederick the Great.”

    It would do the Pro UK and Brexit camp to learn the term Magnanimity.

  25. Macart says:

    Jeebus! Its the cast of ‘Usual suspects’. 😮

    ‘Poverty, many can endure with dignity. Success, how few can carry off, even with decency and without baring their innermost infirmities before the public gaze!’

  26. K1 says:

    Isn’t it about time Wings had a wee poll on the independence question?

    From what ScotgoesPop says that BMG one is shite.

    Framed the question in a completely biased way and all fieldwork before Tory conference. So how’s about it Stu, any money in the war chest put aside for one especially so soon after that conference?

  27. Joe says:

    Wee ginger kunt needs to go ooot and get pumped. (by a girl or a geezer)

  28. pa_broon74 says:

    Got as far as ‘Michelle Mone was exactly right’.

    Its like the Daily Express in audio book format.

  29. Joemcg says:

    Ginger baws I hope I see your ugly mug in the street you talk total shite an embarrassment. Paul Ross was laughing like fuck at you.

  30. Breeks says:

    Better Together Mk2.

    Looks like we are going to be blessed with a NO side as dire as 2014, and yet again without any discernible active grassroots support and and even smaller token electoral presence.

    I might be tempted to say I was confident if it wasn’t for the rancid BBC propagandists steering the agenda away from rational constructive and informative debate, and dwelling ad nauseum on contrived nonsense which has no bearing on Scottish sovereignty.

    The man Cameron is a flat out liar about Europe, but perhaps that Talk Radio interview was just his screen test for his forthcoming appearances on Question Time. It surely only a matter of time before Mr Cameron goes onto the BBC’s approved list of domesticated Scotch people who are happy to tell lies for the Union and won’t do a pee on the carpet or steal anything and thus embarrass Ruth Davidson.

    If only Scotland had its own media which would expose this utter bullshit and outright dishonesty. These people would sell out Scotland in a heartbeat to win the approval of masters from down south, and have the gall to call themselves patriots as they do it. Spoiled little rich boys who got a private education to confirm they were superior beings to ordinary Scots who were best regarded as something akin to cattle.

    I’d be curious to join the dots between Mr Cameron, and Mr Cameron getting airtime on Talk Radio. That of course isn’t quite true, because I’m not curious in the slightest and I’ve already wasted too much of my life dwelling on what Alistair Cameron thinks about anything.

  31. Giving Goose says:

    Hoorahh! Hoooraaahhhh!
    “Where’s my knighthood?” Asks Alistair on very bended knee.

    Make no mistake, Alistair and his ultra loyalist arse licking ilk are chasing honours from HRH and co in London.

  32. Breeks says:

    And for those who don’t know, Paul Ross is Jonathon Ross’s elder brother.

  33. ross says:

    Joe…your right, he has the tone of a man failng miserably in the Hole department.
    A couple o rides n that guy could be a solid Yes imho

  34. Dougal says:

    What was said in the radio, a summary version if you don’t mind?

    Cannot listen to the radio and I’m wondering what did he say during the gentle interview!

  35. Wellreadned says:

    The thing that angers me most about 2014 was how the British press hid the multitude of creepy crawlies under the the BT banner.

    I really, really hope total space cadets like Gallagher or “Civil War” Gill get thrust into the spotlight this time.

    Furthermore, the guy who calls himself “Reynard the Fox” on Twitter is a potential Scottish Brevik and I hope the Polis are keeping an eye on that gun-toting fruitcake.

  36. dandy dons 1903 says:

    The Britjock colonial Raj in Scotland whose time is nearly up along with the pointless and hopeless “union” they so cravenly adore! The type of people who would sell Scotland down the river in a heartbeat if they thought it would make a favourable impression on their brit-masters in London!

  37. Robert Louis says:

    My thoughts are that actually Paul Ross did a good job, as he had clearly done his homework – much more so than is the case with BBC interviewers in England.

    I could tell from the very start the yoon was going to talk tosh, since he felt obliged to assert that the cinema movie ‘Braveheart’ was not historically accurate. I have yet to meet an independence supporter who thinks or even argues that it was. The entire need to say such things is an entirely yoon phenomena. Quite bizarre really.

    What was interesting was towards the end when the Yoon started talking about a hard border. When Paul Ross pointed out, that crossing North to South Ireland is not an issue, the yoon tried to make out that it never used to be like that, but Paul Ross, to his credit, correctly pointed out that was because of the troubles in the past. The Yoon was clearly spinning, since he himself said he was ex-army in N.Ireland so would have known what he said was p*sh.

    What is telling in the whole interview, is the fact that the yoon throughout makes sweeping assertions on voting patterns and who voted (citing Edinburgh, where I happen to live), without one shred of evidence.

    People such as this will be very easy to defeat. If he had any compelling arguments to make, he would have made them in that interview. He offered none. Just tired unionist nonsense.

    I think that particular yoon knew he was talking rubbish.

    No idea what motivates such people. Are yoons getting promised baubles and titles, like ‘Lord’ Darling? Or is it that MI5 has ‘dirt’ on some of them, and so they are coerced? Who can say.

  38. Luigi says:

    All his pathetic arguments were instantly ripped to shreds by an on-the-ball interviewer. Spot on. No wonder he was extremely rattled.

    Arguments against IndyRef 2 and Independence, by yoons on auto mode are so easily demolished by anyone who knows a tiny bit about Scotland. No wonder the yoons are so angry and increasingly noisy. 🙂

  39. Thepnr says:

    Scotland in Union as the Rev points out is simply Better Together MkII.

    Despite being repeatedly offered a place on the panel, neither the SNP nor the Greens took the chance to take part.

    The three panellists were:
    Anas Sarwar – a former Glasgow Central MP and deputy leader of Scottish Labour who is number one on the party’s Glasgow regional list

    Adam Tomkins – a professor of public Law at Glasgow University and Scotland Office adviser who is standing in Glasgow Anniesland and is top of the Scottish Conservative’s Glasgow regional list.

    Robert Brown – a former education minister who served in Holyrood for 12 years and is hoping to be re-elected this time as the Liberal Democrats top regional pick in Glasgow.

    All three had previously signed the Scotland in Union charter and agreed to resist another referendum in the next Scottish Parliament even if there is a vote for Brexit.

    Alastair Cameron said: “We are a non-party organisation and our plea to our supporters is to get out and vote for who they think is best. This was an excellent debate with three talented and articulate speakers who took time out from their busy schedule to take part and show their passion for keeping Scotland in the UK.

    Captain Alastair Cameron, leader of the team is just one more privately educated Proud Scot But. He can fuck right off.

    We’ve had enough of listening to his type.

  40. Thepnr says:

    The three that took part were the Blue Tory, the Red Tory and the Yellow Tory.

    All others declined and said fuck the Tories.

  41. Luigi says:

    It’s funny how the yoons harp on about the economic reasons blah blah blah, democracy, vote as one UK blah blah blah, Scotland basket case blah blah blah, biggest export market blah blah blah.

    And yet, they cannot be honest, and give us the real, obvious reason why they just cannot support Scottish independence:

    “I’m a British Nationalist”

    There you go – wasn’t so difficult. No shame. Deluded, but no shame, so why all this reluctance? What are y’all afraid of?

  42. Robert Louis says:


    Meanwhile in England, they are celebrating the battle of hastings, when the English king was killed and his army were massively defeated by the French. Resulting in the French Duke William of Normandy trashing London and South East England, stealing the English crown, and declaring himself king of England.

    What an odd thing for the English to celebrate.

  43. Jim Gallagher is, in fact, a former Victoria Quay civil servant. Back in the 1990s he was a hot tip for the post of Permanent Secretary, but he never made it to the top job.

  44. Luigi says:

    It seems that the establishment strategy to preserve the union currently seems to be to hold the line, and ensure that the nasty nats loose IndyRef 2 and that Labour loses the next generation, thereby getting rid of two thorns, Nicola Sturgeon and Jeremy Corbyn. Seems like a good plan.

    However, what if the worst happened, IndyRef 2 and Labour narrowly defeated, but Nicola and Jeremy, on the basis of enduring popularity and continuing upward trends (for independence and Labour) in the polls, refused to resign and decided to battle on? If the people want Nicola and Jeremy to stay on, who are the media to demand that they go? That would fair put a rocket up the establishment backside.

  45. defo says:

    Robert Louis.
    There was also ‘the harrying (harrowing) of the north’. Bastard that he was, even William thought he’d gone a bit too far. Yorkshire was obliterated.

  46. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “So how’s about it Stu, any money in the war chest put aside for one especially so soon after that conference?”

    We’ve got plenty money for polls, but there’s pretty much one a week at the moment and it seems a bit of a waste. We’re putting together a more wide-ranging one, though.

  47. Papadox says:

    Perchance the flower of the establishments genetic pool in all its glory? The chosen ones. The officer class.

  48. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Archie McPherson has always been a bufoon. After he got pumped by the BBC, he got a gig covering games for the Sunday Times, covering Premier League games.

    He was given a lap top, but, couldn’t work-out how to send the reports. He would type them out then dictate them down the line to the copy-takers.

    Typical teacher, a man among children – a child among men.

    Watching Glasgow beat Leicester tonight. The BT Sport English team can hardly believe it. It was supposed to be all about the Tigers, and they were thumped.

  49. Bilptoe says:

    Total knobb

  50. Jim Mitchell says:

    Aw c’mon folks, you can be made a Lord for turning on Scotland and telling lies, that’s got to be worth it!

  51. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Interesting to see the altered makeup of BT2, it’s far more the loony Loyalist fringe than the last time round.

    And what on earth was puir Wee Willie Winkie doing mingling with that parcel of rogues? I know that post-Brexit there isn’t now a single one of their former cherished principles that the LibDems haven’t traduced, but still…

    …someone must surely have told him it was another outing with the beasts and Gormless Grin just assumed it was another jolly romp down at the farm…

  52. Clootie says:

    …follow the money!

    They only give because it secures and protects their interests. It is not for love of the union but love of what it provides to them.

    You are a unionist through self interest or bigotry. Why do we even need to point out to our fellow Scots that which is so self evident?

  53. Robert Peffers says:

    While the interviewer was much better than most he still let the guy away with brazen, bare faced, lies. Mind you the numptie was so thick he probably is not aware he was telling porkie pies.

  54. Big Jock says:

    Warriors were fantastic. This just might be their year. Keeping Hogg was a piece of great business. He would get into any six nations team.

    If you are scunnered with football watch the warriors on Friday nights. I am not even going to watch the England Scotland game. That’s for people,like Archie Macpherson who bang on about beating England then vote to be ruled by them. It’s phoney scitzophrenic nationhood.

  55. Unionist says:

    There’s absolutely no need for personal attacks! You have your views, which I don’t agree with, and I have mine. Your free to have your own political views. But you are demonstrating the bile, venom & hatred which soured Scotland during the referendum, and which has put off so many Scots from supporting your cause. I don’t personally know you, but from your rhetoric, I can assume you were the school bully who used to pick on kids with learning disabilities, foreign kids, and those who wouldn’t do as you said.
    You are the face of independence, and probably, single handedly, have turned more people away from your cause than you have recruited – Congratulations.

  56. heedtracker says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    14 October, 2016 at 10:03 pm
    While the interviewer was much better than most he still let the guy away with brazen, bare faced, lies.

    He thinks there are only 4 million Scots.

  57. you wonder what happened in the lives of these people that turned them into such creatures full of hate for Scotland,

    I fear for their mental wellbeing,

    hopefully there families and friends are keeping an eye on them,

    more to be pitied than mocked,

    when we get Independence we must make sure these poor people get the help they need

    to protect themselves and to protect Scottish citizens.

  58. galamcennalath says:

    In some ways these people above are an honest representation of those who benefit most from the Union and those who should perhaps support it. However, to the vast majority of Scots, YES and NO, they from a world apart!

    The face of Better Together was, in the main, Labour’s high heid yins from Scotland.

    They have all moved on, or been forceably removed from the scene.

    Who is going to be the ‘acceptable’ face of Scotland in Union? Who is going to appear for the Union in IndyRef2 trying to explain to Scots why we should commit hard Brexit mass suicide?

    I can’t wait to find out!

    They could play it the way Leave operated in the Brexit vote. There were multiple campaigning organisations. Some had a human facea, but the dirtiest of propaganda was from the group with no human face.

  59. crazycat says:

    @ heedtracker

    He thinks there are only 4 million Scots.

    I assumed he was confusing the population with the electorate, which was about 4 million last time.

  60. velofello says:

    The unionists in Scotland simply glide by the fact that Scotland is a country in union, equal union with England/Wales and due to population imbalance, the will of England/Wales prevails.The Unionists in Scotland are content with this imbalance, a sad lack of their self esteem perhaps?.

    In the 1920’s Scotland was some 13% of the UK population, now down to less than 10%, why?

    The UK/England is now concerned over population growth in England/Wales, and of “British” identity,and immigrants, yet Scotland wishes to welcome immigrants from other countries and cultures, why?

    Answers on a postcard.

  61. Fireproofjim says:

    Robert Louis
    I suppose the English are right to celebrate the Norman Conquest, because they are probably all a bit Norman by now.
    The Norman families even spread into Scotland, by marriage, not conquest, and some of the most famous Scots were descended from Normans. For example Robert Bruce (deBrus), the Grants (Grandes), the Frasers (Fraiseurs), and many others.
    Your own names – Robert and Louis – are of Norman origin.
    Never mind. They are all welcome in Scorland.

  62. galamcennalath says:


    At Union I believe Scotland was 20% of the UK population.

  63. Liz g says:

    It’s bizzare that there are people who think that Braveheart not being historically accurate is something to make a point of!
    Most sane people know that it’s not a documentary.

    Also love it or hate it and however it did it,it got the story told.
    And left some memorable expressions here an abroad instantly recognisable as Scottish.
    If you need anything more than there once was a guy who fought a war to free his country and got killed for doing it.
    Then by all means dismiss it and go read some books or watch a documentary FFS.

    But you can’t argue that the movie sparked an interest in Scotland and Scotland’s history.
    So much so I think there would be people who will want to find out what did really happen.
    Why would that be a bad thing, and so bad it needs to be pointed out continually?

  64. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 14 October, 2016 at 10:14 pm:

    “He thinks there are only 4 million Scots.”

    On that score he may have a point. There are a good many more people in Scotland than 4 Million but it is a rather moot point how many of them are actually Scots. I do not, of course only mean Scots by birth.

    I refer to those, from other airts and pairts, who never make an attempt to integrate and remain forever loyal to another country. For example. those from various Irish factions, who may never have ever set foot on Irish soil, who remain loyal to Ireland and can be seen on football days carrying their foreign flags. Italians who only associate with other Italians in little close knit groups and Englanders who remain forever loyal to England.

    Mind you I know of many other who become as Scottish as I am in a relatively short time. I went to school in the port of Leith when it was still a very busy and cosmopolitan area. I had all sorts in my class at school.

    Most soon became as Scottish as I. Some, though, clung to their roots and were forever foreigners. Among my own group of friends were English, Welsh, Irish, Italian, Spanish, French, a couple of Lascars and the son of a Ghurkha Soldier.

    I have nothing against people who do not wish to integrate, it is their own choice, and they are free to make it but they, themselves, would never claim to be become Scottish. By the same token there are said to be more of Scots descent in London that there are in Scotland.

  65. louis.b.argyll says:

    a_broon74 9:04 pm
    Got as far as ‘Michelle Mone was exactly right’.

    Its like the Daily Express in audio book format.

    No..that’ll be the next Queens Speech

  66. heedtracker says:

    Who is going to be the ‘acceptable’ face of Scotland in Union?

    Were the last lot acceptable? My Slovene girlfriend wants the job. He’s very brilliant, charismatic, has at least two jobs already, is a really good kisser, with that extra snot nose disdain for those who wont vote UKOK toryboy.

    Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins Oct 13
    Indyref2 trigger: Bob Dylan winning the Nobel Prize for literature when it should have gone to Alex Salmond for his Dream Shall Never Die

    Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins Oct 13
    Adam Tomkins MSP Retweeted Michael Gray
    Where do you even start with this tired, deliberately misleading, broken, grievance clap trap?

  67. Wellreadned says:

    I was being genuine about that Reynard the Fox character, btw.

    We underestimate the capacity for violence and murder in the Yoon hardcore.

    Remember, Ireland had less resources than we do and didn’t have a land border with them. I think the next referendum is going to be much more bitter.

    I don’t like the noises coming from that nutter Reynard nutter. He is very, very unhinged and a sign of things to come.

  68. louis.b.argyll says:

    Robert P..
    Would you say that Ireland has been hushed?
    Or that they fear marginalisation from Indy Scotland?
    Are their establishment’s motives true in spirit?

    They are very quiet, whatever.

  69. Big Phil says:

    Almost there folks, almost there.the last post showed what we have ,ive printed it and have shown it to my NO friends , it opens their eyes. Nana and Petra, stalwarts in my eyes. 😉

  70. Morgatron says:

    Archie (WEETABIX HEID) Macpherson has a puss you just wouldnt tire of skelping with a hot shite.

  71. mark robertson says:

    I am sure i saw him in on my of triga videos i am going to check again just to be sure

  72. Glesca Keelie says:

    A bit O/T here.

    I have just watched Nicola being “interviewed” by Peter Wood ? is it, for ITV news. Very aggresive. The economy, 14.5 billion deficit. Followed by STV with the same line. Are we the only country in Europe which canny pay it’s way.

    Was there any attempt to break this down, say, well, defence we don’t need, interest payments for the UK we didnay incur. If we’re doing so badly it’s within this union. Naw, all deflection, I’m getting sick of these performances. Imagine Tommy Sheridan in that situation. When is the fightback going to start. It was the same before our Ref.

    Are we going for the sympathy vote, maybe.

    We should announce something May disnae like and tell her to get lost, or try and dae somethin about it.

    I tell you, I’m pissed off, really pissed off. What is the SNP policy, and I’m a long term member. Did I say I was pissed off.

  73. Joemcg says:

    Wellread-my thoughts exactly. I encountered intimidation and violence actually witnessing an assault at a yes stall last time and I’m certain things will escalate next time. If we win there could be serious trouble with the hardcore Brit nats and we all know who they are.

  74. Taranaich says:

    What I want to know is where C.J. Samson’s scuttled off to? He donated £294,000 to Better Together. Given I think even Ms Rowling could not bring herself to campaign for SIU, presumably someone would have to be their author of authority?

    Mr Samson being the author who wrote the slanderous alternate history novel Dominion, which had the SNP collaborate with Lord Beaverbrook, Oswald Mosley, Enoch Powell, and Marie Stopes to establish a Nazi puppet state in Britain.

    Quite apart from ignoring the fact the UK Government actively contemplated abandoning Scotland in the event of a Nazi invasion, it’s disgusting to suggest that the SNP of the time would have been party to a Quisling government. Andrew Dewar Gibb served as an adjutant of Winston Churchill, and fought on the French Front in WW1. Douglas Young opposed conscription: while the jingoistic UK government happily vilified him and the SNP for “undermining the war effort,” it’s quite a leap to go from refusing conscription to actively supporting an invading force which *also* conscripted soldiers.

    And if anyone brings up Arthur Donaldson, perhaps if they can explain why MI5 never charged him with treason, or never provided the evidence of “subversive literature” and “large cache of weapons,” then I’ll refrain from mentioning Archibald Ramsay.

  75. Molly says:

    Must be big rewards if you’re prepared to lavish that amount of money on a fundraiser like that plus 2 folk in every High St with a table.

    Saw them in Stirling a few weeks back . One old golf jumper talking to them otherwise zero . They appeared more concerned with getting the ‘ fantastic day at the stall ‘ pictures up on social media.

    If/when this ref happens , the Electoral Conmision better be more on the ball than the last time. We’ve all read the ‘ alleged’ electoral fraud stuff from down south ( Channel 4) so they’ve no excuses.

    No shared buses or folk bussed up from Liverpool ( how were they paid/fed/watered) or groups with ‘unknown’ sources of income or even the holiday homers.

  76. Thepnr says:


    Welcome back. Who were you responding to with your post at 11:20?

    You know “my thoughts exactly” one.

    Are you seeking “hardcore” as your post states? In what exactly?

  77. Joemcg says:

    Pnr-wellreadned is who I’m responding to and the orange order.

  78. Capella says:

    Dan thehistoryman is probably Dan Snow, married to the daughter of the Duke of Westminster (deceased), so plenty dosh to campaign for his highland estates.

  79. Still Positive. says:

    Our ‘Yes’ shop in Clydebank was set on fire – round the back – but the smoke came into the shop. If it hadn’t been for an SNP councillor with a good sense of smell who evacuated the shop including a woman on crutches God knows what would have happened.

    We cannot allow this to happen next time.

  80. Thepnr says:

    @Glesca Keelie

    Totally agree with you. Stand tall, we won’t lie down. That’s the message. However, not everyone thinks the same as you or I.

    I wish they did but no there are those we still need to persuade, in particular our own. Our own family, the grannies and the grandads.

    Come on, surely we can persuade own, else all is lost.

  81. Sinky says:

    Just watched Tim Stanley of Daily Telegraph on Sky TV paper review professing astonishment that Tommy Sheppard / SNP will ignore Westminster convention that all political parties should support the furtherance of the UK.

    What planet are these so called experts on?

  82. lumilumi says:

    I’m sorry, I haven’t had time to read all the comments but Rev Stu’s comment caught my eye and I’m glad he isn’t wasting money on polls similar to what are happening anyway but rather saving the war chest for a poll with intelligent questions at an intelligent time.

    As to this supposedly intelligent and educated yoon… Ideology can get in the way of facts and logical reasoning. It happens to independence supporters, too. Though, as an outsider, it seems to me that the advocates of Scottish independence are better with facts and reasoned argument. Kind of like enlightened.

    None of that matters because the BBC and all MSM will be against Scottish independence and they’ll launch one attack after another. They have to, the branch offices of UK parties in Scotland are useless and their “leaders”, too. Ruth the tank commander, Kez the permanently clueless and wee Willie in search of a slide that he can “wheee” down (like LibDem votes).

    The independence-minded people of Scotland will be fighting the BBC and the toxic UK press. Many people still see the BBC and newspapers as reliable sources of information. How to expose them for what they are, just propagenda shills. It’ll be hard to convince soft no’s, and no time or effort should be spent on real hardcore no’s, except to say that they’re valued and welcome in indy Scotland.

  83. Big Phil says:

    I saw people from shows that where speakers for NO, I know we were fecked from the start because of them, let the nawbags FROM Scotland speak, then educate them, there was a thing about phone sex workers and this wee lassie was giving it “i’ll do that” next thing i saw her being a Nawbag in the audience, we will have the whole media against us , it wont be nice, Prepare for the worst propoganda in your life.

  84. ScottishPsyche says:

    SiU are like something from a 70s sitcom. How can you be so out of touch? It is like they think they can mount a corporate buy out of a demoralised and beaten down Scotland.I bet they all wear blazers and slacks.

    O/T Sky Papers- MPs to be required to sign up to a code of conduct requiring them to work in the best interest of the UK. Tommy Sheppard and the SNP telling them to stuff it. Tim Stanley frothing and outraged!

  85. scotspine says:

    I would imagine that a lot of the cash that is filling up the coffers of SIU comes from the “gentry”.

    Landed types, minor aristocracy, well heeled and connected establishment types, you know, the ones with a vested interest in keeping us subdued.

    These types all know each other through “networking”. That usually means popping round to Tarquin and Gemima’s Country house for some supper, followed by a spot of Salmon fishing or Grouse Shooting the following day. Even off to the Oval or Lords for the Cricket chaps?

    That may sound like a parody, but honestly, I know for a fact thats the way they operate.

    They are Your overlords and cretins like Elmer Fudd MacPherson etc are only too happy to keep them there, isnt that right Mr Fraser and your Queens 11?

  86. lumilumi says:

    Sinky says:
    14 October, 2016 at 11:51 pm

    What planet are these so called experts on?

    Planet UK.

  87. ScottishPsyche says:

    Link for the Telegraph article about MPs signing up to code backing the UK.

  88. manandboy says:

    (Sorry, posted on previous thread in error.)

    Scottish or British. Yes or No.

    Hard though it may be to believe, but not too many No voters are overwhelmed by the idea of self-determination. And yet, to Yes voters it’s huge.
    Furthermore, Yes voters don’t perhaps always get it, as to why No supporters don’t get it, as to why self-determination is so big for Independence supporters.
    Maybe it’s just that No voters believe in something which is, to them, more important than self-determination and independence. Which means they simply believe that Britain is one country, which already is independent and already has self-determination, and that, as British citizens, they have no need of Scottish Independence. In other words, being British is more important to them than being Scottish – or, as they would see it, Yorkshire.

    But, census figures tell us that most people living in Scotland consider themselves Scottish, not British.

    So being British is not enough. Enter the soft No voters – for whom being Scottish is not enough to want Independence. They have to be financially disadvantaged, sufficiently for Independence to constitute a risk they cannot afford. Those who can’t afford a cut in state pension, or to lose their position with an English Company. Or simply someone who is by nature or upbringing fearful of uncertainty and cannot cope with it. Lacking courage or national pride, they retreat to safety in the status quo.

    Then there’s the well-off. Why risk disturbing a comfortable life?

    So, the Scottish Electorate will remain the same. Each will vote in IndyRef2 from the same starting point as in IndyRef14. Except now we have a big pile of broken promises – and Brexit, with so much uncertainty.

    One thing’s for sure, The Union, as we know it, is over. There will be no going back to the days of almost complete ignorance by Scots of what the English have been up to behind our backs. By fair means or otherwise, Divorce will come – unless WW3 beats us to it.

  89. Phronesis says:

    It’s terribly vexing for UKOK dealing with this concatenation of unanticipated events .Mass education of an electorate with their samizdat of endless declarations and manifestos arming them with information and counter arguments to ‘Scotland’s too wee, poor, stupid and Braveheart’s rubbish’ slogan that had managed to keep the lumpenproletariat in check.

    And then to top it all we have Brexit and those troublesome Nats demanding transitional justice and democratic legitimacy to ensure that Scotland who voted to stay in the EU…stays in the EU and uses its dynamic energy to be constructive,innovative ,globally competitive, promote social solidarity,defend human rights.

    All very perplexing. There needs to be more fear messages put out there – like the last time – oops – forgot there aren’t any new fear messages – just need to keep going with Scotland’s too wee,poor, stupid and Braveheart’s rubbish.

  90. ewen says:

    Ross – good guy
    Cameron – wank

    What is that accent, by the way? It doesn’t seem to fit in anywhere in the UK.

  91. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Joemcg says at 9:07 pm

    “Paul Ross was laughing like fuck at you.”

    Truth is they were laughing amongst themselves at this kind of pish when it was purveyed in IndyRef1, the fact that some are prepared to do it in public Pre-IndyRef2 speaks volumes.

  92. Ken500 says:

    Who elected them? They speak for no one. They are a disgrace. The Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. They are an illegitimate government. Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable. Misappropriating Scotland’s money and resources. The illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.

    Paul Ross has more idea what’s going in Scotland.

    Michelle Mone flogs jewellery on the QVC channel. Public money pays her housing costs. Cameron now deposed in disgrace. The worst PM in history. May will come a close second. .

  93. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Thepnr says at 9:26 pm

    ‘Captain’ Alastair Cameron

    If he did indeed hold the Queens Commission, Cameron should be aware that the etiquette of the UKOK Ossifer class (no typo) is that only those whom archived the rank of Major and above are entitled to use their rank as a suffix, (as the Proclaimers sang he is another clown who likes to put the crown before and after his name).

    Very telling that after 15 years of UKOK wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and UKSF and their Private Contractors are on the ground in Libya, Syria, Crimea etc. he claims to have only served in Norn Irn (nae doot a Uni Officer Cadet, then 3 years in the Regular Army with guarantee of Captaincy if he got his degree whilst the Army paid his Uni fees, which is why you can’t use 2nd Lieutenant, Lieutenant or Captain as suffix), Major and above are Commission Board, competency based promotions.

  94. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    ‘Captain’ Alastair Cameron = Samuel L Jacksons ‘Stephen’ in Django Unchained.

    Full blown ‘Uncle Tam’

  95. ben madigan says:

    the speaker was telling lies about the hard border in Northern ireland.
    It was a hard border (custom posts,vehicle searches, police etc) from the inception of northern ireland (1922) until the Good friday/Belfast Agreement (1998) which kicked off the Peace Process with input from the EU and the USA. Then the northern ireland/republic of ireland border became an almost non-existent which everyone in ireland is happy with. Currently there is an on-going Border Communities Against Brexit Campaign which is supported by everyone – from your local pharmacits, hotelier, farmer to all types of cross-border workers

    The Common travel Area (CTA) had nothing to do with the NI-ROI border. It referred to free movement of people between ireland (north and South) and Great britain. It worked fine while both countries were out of the EU (before 1973) and while both countries were in (1973 to present day).

    It’s not at all clear if it can work with one out (UK) and one in (ROI).
    It’s not at all clear whether, in the brexit negotiations, the EU27 will allow the UK and ireland to hold on to this “private” arrangement. It would need to be sanctioned by the other 27 countries. Personally speaking I don’t think they should.
    Brexit is brexit , after all!

  96. Tam Jardine says:

    Scotland in Traction are hopeless- their prospectus for Scotland would cripple the country. Their plan is to render the one weapon Scotland has in her armoury ie Independence illegal, unconstitutional and impossible.

    They are in contravention to everything the UN stands for. They would have us neutered if they could. They can GTF. Tractorous doesn’t come close to describing these miserable wretches with their new treaty of union.

    The no campaign wasted a fortune last time round on no borders and all that snish – if I thought these guys could spend £300k wisely I might be concerned but they’ll wank it away on some bad adverts like the cinema pish that had folk walking out (and was eventually canned).

    JK is the worst- all these weasel words after brexit flirting with indy because she is left wing and shit- she would have us on our knees.

  97. Big Phil says:

    As a veteran of the british army,i am proud of my service, but i am more proud of my alliegiance to my country ,i AM A SCOT , first and foremost ,they cried me JOCK, and i love it. my wife called me a red coat, i told her NO i fought for a union that told me i was equal and then told me my voice didnt matter. i’ll still fight for my brothers and i WILL educate them. Scotland Needs to be FREE.

  98. call me dave says:

    Nicola Sturgeon and Theresa May in bitter stand off over second independence poll.

    Quote from: MacAskill… he’s becoming popular in the MSM: 🙁

    Former SNP justice secretary Kenny MacAskill warned Mrs May might block a referendum, saying she could simply tell the First Minister: “No, you’re not getting it.”

  99. Tam Jardine says:

    Big Phil 

    Well said. The absolute worst thing we could do for the people of England is reject independence. The only way to save England from the ruling class they suffer under is to show them there is another way. And that is exactly what we are going to do.

  100. Big Phil says:

    well said Tam. us wee scottish fuds mean something. all we want to do is look after us all. Respect mate.

  101. Bob Mack says:

    Rev. If this guy Andrew Skinner comes from Glasgow and lived in the East End I. e. Settleston, then I know who and what he is. This could be very significant indeed.

  102. Big Phil says:

    Bob mack, i grew up in the east end , still got contacts , any info i can help you with , then let me know. 😉

  103. Thepnr says:

    @Big Phil

    Best thing I have heard here in months. Your a star, now get to work and convert your comrades. Scotland needs to be free from these nutters who rule us.

  104. Tam Jardine says:

    Big Phil 

    It is wee Scottish fuds like you and I who are going to make our Scotland:

    1. A far more prosperous and equitable country

    2. The darling of the EU

    3. The successor to the city of London

    4. The renewable energy capital of the world

    5. The tourist destination of choice for Europeans

    6. The uni destination for EU students

    7. The English language speaking hub to link the EU with rUK and the USA

    Along the way we are going to set up a proper armed services fit for our peaceful, humanitarian objectives and as a proper response to the threats we face.

    We might even put out a decent fitba team eventually- it could hardly be worse. Take it easy Phil… we are heading in the right direction.

  105. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Big Phil says at 12:25 am

    “As a veteran of the british army,i am proud of my service,”

    Phil, I know Scottish soldier’s are second to none (I’m ex RAMC) but this loyalty has been abused by the establishment in the same way as the Gurkha Rifles is seen as the epitome of Colonial Nepalese Soldiery.

    You should be proud of your service to the UK and by default Scotland (as all Veterans of all the Services should be).

    You aren’t thinking about the UK or Scotland in a FOB or sangar when the rounds are coming in, you’re thinking about your fellow Jocks.

    Remember our Armed Forces Personnel are our lowest paid but purest Public Servants (in the sense of the word).

  106. Big Phil says:

    Thepnr,i’m doing my best buddy, but 300 years of indoctrintasion is hard to beat. i wish this site could be seen by the masses. that is OUR problem. we can spill our views here but i feel that its wings over US ,instead of Wings Over Scotland.I went over to other britnat sites tonight amd i cant believe the bile. seriously are our english brothers that thick.. We need to publish the Refs’ wee book tae all and sunder.

  107. David says:

    They might have funds but I’m not sure about their ideas. Can project fear really work twice? Some of the more reasonable, thoughtful better together personalities from last referendum have already switched their support to independence.

    The proud scots that they are left with have already drowned us in fear and lies and I doubt it will be nearly as effective second time around whatever their budget. No doubt, there will always be some low vision wallet clutching fearties amongst the plebs who will shat their tartan pants when an ultra-yoon preaches or screeches at them but they are a diminishing species.

  108. Thepnr says:

    @Big Phil

    Stick around. Independence is coming and you will play a part.

  109. Big Phil says:

    Ive been reading this site for months, (lurker , ok) and ive got tae say its the first thing i look at in the morning, what really rips ma knitting is why this site isnt THERE for everyone , feck yer nawbags and feck yer oldbags, if we want this we need tae start getting oor ain baws. three people i told last night ,goto wimgs its the truth, and they did , first thing they said though wis …..wits that? we need oor ain Propoganda and Ref efter we’re independant your unemployed, lol, but i’ll still love ye. 😉

  110. Macart says:

    Perception is everything.

    An already well funded organisation staffed with a board of those and such as those. A black tie dinner and auction with luxury goods on offer.

    All of those attending support:

    Scotland in union post indyref with zero delivery of pledges, austerity ideology and right wing government, brexit, constitutional crisis, isolationist state and hate crime on the rise. A soft recession imminent and a strong possibility economic catastrophe looming. In short, hardship for millions across the UK.

    There is no appalling act of the Westminster government, no pain of the Scottish electorate they would consider as an acceptable reason to dissolve the treaty of union. It wouldn’t matter to them how competent ANY Scottish government performed or at the other end of the spectrum, how many food banks went begging for stock. Their belief in the union and their worldview of the UK is ALL that matters.

    They don’t see need, or necessity. They don’t accept the principle of self determination or have confidence in the Scottish electorate. They apparently don’t have a problem with shedding the 40 years worth of accrued ECHR rights of that electorate in favour of a British bill of rights either. Will any of their voices be heard in protest when Scottish citizens whose point of origin is the European continent or farther afield are put on lists? Or perhaps asked, ever so politely, to leave?

    Still I’m sure the dinner was a delight and that Alpine chalet holiday sounded rather nice. The epitome of ‘its alright for some’ eh?

  111. Big Phil says:

    Thepnr, you better believe it .mind you ma weans keep saying “dad says its cos we’re no independent”. lol

  112. K1 says:

    ‘We’ve got plenty money for polls, but there’s pretty much one a week at the moment and it seems a bit of a waste. We’re putting together a more wide-ranging one, though.’

    Good to hear…wide-ranging means a tad mair nuanced picture emerges. 🙂

  113. Bean an Tighe says:

    Taranaich – I’m glad you mention CJ Sansom – he seems to have been largely forgotten about. Not only was the novel Dominion slanderous in its very premise, there was an extraordinary diatribe in a postscript which was both anti-Scottish and anti-SNP. It was also remarkably poorly informed for an author of well-researched historical novels, such as Winter in Madrid, a sensitively written novel of the Spanish Civil War. My late mother, who was a lifelong SNP supporter, was very hurt after reading Dominion, as she had enjoyed Sansom’s other works.

  114. Big Phil says:

    jockanese windtalker. you know buddy. even in the service we were the Jocks, and i loved the respect we had… always told them i was fae the gorbals , hard as feck. wish we had the same respect for oor wee ,poor country fae the monster. we’ll get there.

  115. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Big Phil says at 1:52 am

    wish we had the same respect for oor wee ,poor country fae the monster. we’ll get there.”

    Aye Big Phil, it is all aboot countering the propaganda, lies and pish the MSM & Deid Tree Press spout daily that we are f**k all without rUK.

    Once someone realises it is shite that person will never go back to believing the lies and another Scots Separatist is born. 🙂

  116. yesindyref2 says:

    @call me dave
    I keep an open mind about McAskill. I think different views explore the sort NP, the sort YES, and other points of view the SNP itself can’t do. Gordon Wilson does the same, as does Sillar in his own way – and of course Salmond in his.

    But McAskill and Salmond were very close, for many years back. I don’t doubt McAkill’s committment to Indy, and it wouldn’t surprise me if McAskill is doing what he does with knowldege from others. I do a little bit of it in my postings, and some others do too. It puts it out there, to join what’s out there already!

  117. yesindyref2 says:

    Someone was saying Ireland is quiet, here’s a point of view of some of the conference and other stuff:

  118. Big Phil says:

    In all my life ive never trusted a politician, snakes lining their own pockets i thought. I met wee Nicola the morning after the SNP landslide , and i let her give me a cuddle. lol, seriously i trust her she is one of us, She IS genuine. and before ye ask yes i did try tae get her phone number, wee honey. lol

  119. yesindyref2 says:

    If I’m going to be controversial, here’s another random thought before I give it zeds. I quite enjoy reading about the SNP conference, or seeing it on TV, from their biased point of view, and strangely enough I think it might be a good thing that others can as well! But it gets different views out and of course, the media love people who are going against “the party line”. Makes it a bit difficult for them to say later that the SNP are like sheep. Baaaaaaaaaa – humbug.

    Ho hum.

  120. Brian McHugh says:

    When they are getting riled up… it’s cos you have them on the ropes. Calm and patience is the gift for the next few months. 🙂

  121. Breeks says:

    Pound predicted to be worth less than the dollar in three years…

    Perhaps the next referendum will be about keeping the pound.

    “No, no, no, Westminster, you keep your pound. We don’t want it”.

    Independence is a lifeline for Scotland because it ties us to continent of Europe. The Union is a deathline for Scotland because it will drag as kicking and screaming towards the same fate as the Xenophobic deluded new imperialists of Lesser Britain.

    FFS Scotland, cut the red cable, not the blue one.

  122. Liz g says:

    Breeks @ 4.21
    Cut the red cable not the blue… very appropriate.
    Fascinating conversation tonight Gentleman lot’s to think about. Thank You.

  123. woosie says:

    I’m normally prepared to listen to intelligent argument from people I don’t agree with, but trying to keep up with this Cameron’s shit was too much. And it’ll be a cold day in Gdansk when Michelle Mone is “exactly right” about anything! She got bumped off Sky News’ The Pledge because she knows the square root of heehaw about everything.

    This guy is fairly typical of yoon mouthpieces; english or wannabenglish. Never heard him before, and don’t wish to again.


  124. Liz g says:

    Woosie @ 7.34 Ah Michelle Mone….like Katie Hopkins but without the empathy right ?

  125. Robert Louis says:

    Breeks at 0421am,

    That is a great phrase I’ve never seen used in this context before;

    “FFS Scotland, cut the red cable, not the blue one.”

    It is now a tale of two unions, one that has never benefited Scotland and one (the blue one) that has. It really is very rapidly becoming a binary choice for Scotland. We should jettison the failing England, ASAP.

  126. Taranaich says:

    @Bean an Tighe: Taranaich – I’m glad you mention CJ Sansom – he seems to have been largely forgotten about. Not only was the novel Dominion slanderous in its very premise, there was an extraordinary diatribe in a postscript which was both anti-Scottish and anti-SNP. It was also remarkably poorly informed for an author of well-researched historical novels, such as Winter in Madrid, a sensitively written novel of the Spanish Civil War. My late mother, who was a lifelong SNP supporter, was very hurt after reading Dominion, as she had enjoyed Sansom’s other works.

    I saw Dominion in a charity shop a while back: I was sorely tempted to get it purely to review its historical credentials. I might still, as part of a project I have lined up regarding Scotland in fiction.

    It’s particularly frustrating when someone is clearly very intelligent and informed in other fields, only to let themselves down in a bad way over presumption and bias confirmation.

    Also, I have to chuckle ruefully and without a hint of amusement at Mr Samson’s article published 3 days before the indyref:

    Scottish independence: saying no will arrest rise of populist nationalism
    Yes voters will not get social change, because, like it or not, they are voting for a nationalist outcome

    … I beg people not to underestimate the sheer dangerous power of populist nationalism, which ruined Europe between 1900 and 1945 and is rising again all over the continent, turning neighbours into “others” and blaming them for all domestic ills. It is so easy and seductive. It brings the rise of extremists, like the xenophobic Cybernats, or those who disrupted Jim Murphy’s talks with screams of “("Tractor" - Ed)”. Einstein’s “measles” is horribly infectious….

    … Please, vote no. If you vote yes you will get a Scotland based on nationalism. Please, bring some of the energy that has been thrown into the referendum into a genuine movement for social change. Please, let Scotland be the first country in Europe to stand against the rising nationalist tide and say: “No, we’re not having that, not here…”

    … Or vote yes and inevitably consolidate in power the SNP, a group of politicians who believe only in my country right or wrong, rich or poor. Things are economically bad, and unjust, all over Europe. Anger is understandable, and right. But please, don’t vote for people who will make things even worse.

    Well. That worked out just great, didn’t it, Mr Samson?

  127. Grouse Beater says:

    Good post, Taranaich.

    Mr Sansom got it all wrong, a case of his prejudices blinding reason. Makes you wonder how accurate is his other ‘historical’ opinion. What was it he said, again?

    “But please, don’t vote for people who will make things even worse.”

    Middle England rejected CJ Sansom’s blethers:

  128. Luigi says:

    Some classic Mike Russell on Radio Scotchland this morning. He fair put Gordon Brewer in his place (paraphrased, but as I remember it):

    Brewer mocking (implying that Nicola’s meetings with EU reps were a waste of time):

    (What was discussed): “Hello, how are you, would you like a cup of tea?”


    “Were you there?”

    Mike Russell has lost none of his sharpness.

  129. gordoz says:

    Pretty sure that BT & the wee smug guy ‘Shortarse’ have put the online attack teams back together.

    Take a look at the SNP facebook page – raving yoons all back in play.

  130. Hamish100 says:

    On the final photograph. The guy on the left. Wasn’t his old man a Labour MP once then gave up his British Passport because he had a better deal elsewhere?
    Is he now a foreigner as a result and which may suggest yooniiist’s all have a price for exclusion?

    Is it a Sir or a Dame?
    an OBE or MBE?
    wearing garters?
    A Lordy or a Lady bauble or two?
    Several Directorships or member of Quango’s eg NTS? SNH?
    Getting a photograph taken as you donate to a food bank and then going for a slap up meal?

    I think they should tell us.

  131. Ken500 says:

    It’s Scotland that wants to stay in the EU. So does Spain. It is England and Wales who voted to leave. The Spanish Civil War resulted in dictatorship. Franco. A fascist dictatorship. Spain has only been a constitutional monarchy since 1978. A Federal system made up of provinces. A lot of Government corruption. Members of the Spanish Royal family have been charged with fraud.

    Many Socialist Scots fought and died in the Spanish Civil War. Scotland helped Spain fight against a dictatorship. Scotland has always been predominately Socialists. Large left wing movements. The fight against Westminster dominance and corruption has been going on since 1928. Democracy only came to Scotland in 2000. That has made a massive change for the better for Scotland. Many authors get historical facts confused. Good at English and proses not so good at maths and economic history.

    Dan Snow’s brother- in-law is the richest man in Britain, The biggest tax evader. His father- in-law died recently and paid no tax. They set up Trusts to evade tax. BBC staff are over pay prima donnas’ who set up companies for their earnings to evade tax. The prima donna’s think they are the story. Nepotism, bullying and abuse is rife. Westminster controlled. The BBC costs £3Billion for nonsense.

    Lord Hall flies to Stornoway in a helicopter paid for by a crooked NO supporter Non Dom tax evader. Lord Hall claims the BBC is not biased. The only Channel worth watching is the Parliamentary Channel to see what the Westminster politicians are actually saying before it is diluted by some ignorant, arrogant reporter. Mostly a lot of nonsense. Dimbleby sails around Scottish isles on a yacht paid for by taxpayers.

    A solution would be for Scotland to stay in the EU and then have a similar trade deal negotiated with England/Wales so they can assess the EU markets through subsidiaries companies based in Scotland. England/Wales could then go off and do their own thing regarding migration and trade. Scotland would have to vote for Independence to achieve a solution. Supported by Westminster.

  132. G H Graham says:

    Three fundamental economic reasons to get us out of Broken Britain:

    1. Chronic low productivity – 22% lower than EU average, 30% lower than France & Germany & a whopping 40% lower than the USA. In essence then, production in England is significantly more expensive than production elsewhere, especially where labour is a significant cost.

    2. Chronic negative trade balance – Britain has imported more than it’s exported every single month for the last 18 years & hit an incredible negative £4.7 billion in August 2016. By comparison, the three largest trade surpluses in 2015 came from the USA, UAE & Ireland. Yes, Ireland!

    3. Crippling net public sector debt. In 2015 the UK public sector received £671 billion, spent £753 billion, borrowed £82 billion, had a current budget deficit of £46 billion. At the end of last year, debt exceeded £1.6 trillion or 84% of GDP. It cost £36 billion last year to service this debt, a number which exceeds Scotland’s entire block grant.

    By any reasonable assessment then, Britain is only postponing bankruptcy (a default on it debts) due to historic low interest rates.

    But as the pound continues to collapse against the Dollar, Euro & Yen, those imports are going to cost even more while the value of exports continues to fall.

    In response, the Treasury will eventually have to raise interest rates to prevent a run on Sterling which will lead to the abandonment of pensions & millions of jobs in an attempt to prevent a default on sovereign debt. This is where Greece found itself.

    I’m forecasting this will happen around 2020 – 2022. Our time for getting out of this economic disaster is running out.

  133. Artyhetty says:

    Bean an Tighe

    The ‘Dominion’ in Star Trek deep space nine, 🙂 are pure evil, scheming, and not always very bright!

    Looks like project fear are becoming a tad rattled. They know that many more people see through the lies and deceit from those in WM, desperate to hang onto Scotland’s resources.

    With brexit, as has been mentioned, and a Scottish independence referendum looming, deep seated bitterness will creep out. It is the UKok emphasis on the irrational, and the emotive, which is dangerous. Othering is another worrying trend, the media and their political masters are experts at it. Brexit has truly opened a can of worms south of the border.

  134. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Some great stuff on the Guardian website this morning English rugby fans trying to get their head round Glasgow stuffing Leicester last night.

    How could a team of “Sweaties” beat a side from “the best rugby league in the world?” seems to be beyond yer average English rugby fan – just as: “Why should those sponging Sweaties want to split from Mother England?” is way beyond the ken of yer average English politician, or political commentator.

    I blame the grammar schools myself – after all, Andra Neil went to Paisley Grammar.

  135. louis.b.argyll says:

    I’d forgotten all about Mone, thanks very much guys.

  136. Robert Peffers says:

    @manandboy says: 15 October, 2016 at 12:05 am:

    ” … Which means they simply believe that Britain is one country, which already is independent and already has self-determination, and that, as British citizens, they have no need of Scottish Independence.”,

    Which only confirms how badly they are educated and how they are entirely wrong.

    Not only is, “Britain”, not a country – it is an archipelago. That group of many islands containing eight countries, (or more correctly states).

    These are, in no particular order:-
    The four United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland countries of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. Note that as a United Kingdom it only contains two partner kingdoms one of which is composed of three countries.

    There is also one republic and being a Republic, “The Republic of Ireland”, is only one part of a partitioned country which part, being a republic, cannot belong in a Kingdom,, united or otherwise.

    Then there is the, non-UK government controlled, “Crown Dependencies”, of Jersey, Guernsey and Man which, strangely are parts of Her Majesty’s United Kingdom but not governed by Her Majesty’s Government of her United Kingdom.

    This factual information proves that all who believe either Britain, Great Britain or the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland are single countries are uneducated, ignorant numpties and that group includes every delusional unionist in the entire archipelago that comprises the British Isles.

  137. Scott says:

    We all know about Braveheart and it being a movie but if this Cameron would like to see another one he should go and see The Cheviot the Stag and the Black Black Oil I have it on tape and watch it now and again and I dare him to tell me it is all hogwash.
    As Ross said we are a country Scotland not some colony to be ruled by the gentry as was the way many years ago.

  138. Mike says:

    That’s a lovely English accent Cameron has.

  139. Ken500 says:

    Westminster negotiated a totally disadvantage trade deal with the Chinese. Hinkley Point the biggest waste of public money ever. Westminster recently made the worse trade deal ever with the US. Trident. £Billions for an obsolete weapon. Brexit will mean it is going. The US doesn’t want it here. It was McMillian who secretly dumped it in Scotland. Greenham Common 20 mins from London was closed in 1992. After protests.

    Untaxed fracked Gas is now being imported. Another bad trade deal for the UK. The Oil & Gas sector in Scotland is taxed at 40% from Jan 2016. The Tories (Osbourne) have tried to destroy the sector taxing it at 80% to 60% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. Scotland has lost £Billions. It could have had nearly full employment.

    How can Australia (pop 20 million) NZ (pop 5 million) Canada (pop 40 million) Total 65Million make up for the nearest, biggest EU market of 450Million.

    The Tories are trying to ruin the world economy. The fall in the £ has cost the UK £Billions, already with more to come.

  140. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Funny paper The Scotsman. I could not post a comment on their website about the Glasgow game, until I changed the word “merde” – but, their UKOK journalists and commentators can write it all the time about Independence.

  141. Nana says:

    Scotland could control its own migration after Brexit, says Scots minister

    Call for a Welsh referendum if Scotland votes to leave the UK

    Home Office staff and advisers ‘ignored’ warnings about child sexual abuse judge

  142. Tinto Chiel says:

    Bean an Tighe and Taranaich: Sansom joins a list of writers whom I used to regard quite highly but who lost all credibility by their behaviour during Indyref1, Andrew Roberts and frothing Max (“Rivers of Blood”) Hastings being two. Did Sansom have a nasty Scottish nanny or something? There’s a real edge to his havers.

    It’s bad enough when a writer of fiction spouts unhinged rubbish but when historians do it, it means I can’t trust their judgment at all, on any topic.

    Fortunately,I took the executive decision to visit the local charity shop and free some space on my bookshelves.

    Big Phil and Tam Jardine in particular: great comments tonight.

    GH Graham: a concise analysis of the economic Armageddon coming WM’s way but I fear this will make it all the more desperate in its anti-independence tactics once Indyref2 begins.

    We need to be calm and patient once the provocation and intimidation begin. Don’t forget however, the EU will be watching with much more attention and sympathy than the last time and this could be to our advantage.

  143. Robert Peffers says:

    @call me dave says: 15 October, 2016 at 12:27 am:

    ” … Former SNP justice secretary Kenny MacAskill warned Mrs May might block a referendum, saying she could simply tell the First Minister: “No, you’re not getting it.””

    Mrs May can tell Nicola whatever she likes but that doesn’t make it a reality. The truth being that the Treaty of Union that begat the bipartite United Kingdom legally makes the only two partner kingdoms maintain their own independent legal systems in perpetuity for their irreconcilable legal systems can never either have one partners legal system overrule the other partners system nor become one United Kingdom legal system due almost entirely to their differing legal sovereignty.

    So in short Mrs May may, (if you pardon the pun), tell Ms Sturgeon she cannot do this, that or the other but she cannot legally tell the legally sovereign people of Scotland to not hold a referendum, or plebiscite, as a majority of the sovereign people of Scotland, being sovereign, cannot be overruled and Nicola has a mandate to hold a referendum from the sovereign people of Scotland.

  144. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Robert Peffers I hope you don’t mind I have reposted your 9.51post to, this sort of information needs a wider audience .

    Thanks Robert.

  145. heedtracker says:

    Why isnt there one in Germany already and decades ago? Oh right we’re in the UKOK zone. Good old yoons.

    A very yoonster juxtaposition between this new Scottish German trade hub news today and say the BBC Question Time freak show this week from the RAF Museum in Hendon. BBC gimps set’s the panel up under the dark nose of a Lancaster bomber that no doubt bombed Germany.

    Ridiculous BBC QT toryboys trying to send subliminal Britnat UKIPer style messages of liberation from the EU, like what happened 70 years ago.

  146. cynicalHighlander says:

    Meanwhile Labour in Scotland exhibit their new dress code.

  147. Dan Huil says:

    The britnats, whether in orange order or black tie, have only one fetid fretting string to their bow: fear. We’re successfully changing the tune with something Scots are tradionally not allowed to have: hope.

  148. mr thms says:


    I came across this today..

    It’s data-licious.. a real eye-opener.. every home should have a copy.

  149. heedtracker says:

    Scotland 2016,

    “The Scottish Government will also create a permanent presence in Germany by setting up a an Innovation and Investment Hub in Berlin, while the number of staff working in Europe for investment agency Scottish Development International will be doubled from 20 to 40.”

    UK 1916, the Torygraph this week,

    “Around 100 Tory MPs – one in three of the Parliamentary party – are backing a campaign for ministers to commission a panel to examine the case for a new ship.

    They want Theresa May, the Prime Minister, to look at returning a modern-day Britannia to the seas to help secure trade deals once Britain has left the European Union in 2019.

    The vessel – which retired from service in 1997 – is estimated to have helped secure £3 billion of trade deals between 1991 and 1995. A replacement is expected to cost £100million.”

    Scientists are currently working on how to harness the power of toryboy brown nosing to royals.

  150. Capella says:

    Live stream from SNP Conference (I think – the caption still says it’s Friday afternoon and the sound is slightly out of sync):

  151. Robert Peffers says:

    @Big Phil says: 15 October, 2016 at 1:15 am:

    “Thepnr,i’m doing my best buddy, but 300 years of indoctrintasion is hard to beat.”

    Aye! Big Phil, but the guid auld Scots saying, “Mony puckles mak muckles”, holds good. Keep up the good work.

    ” … I went over to other britnat sites tonight amd i cant believe the bile. seriously are our english brothers that thick.”

    Well, Big Phil, the normal Englanders are not any more thick than their Scottish counterparts.

    The really thick ones are the, actually very poorly educated, products of the English Public School system. These, due to the inherent English class system, form the United Kingdom’s ruling cases. As a serviceman you will know only too well the same sort of thing as the Officer Class in the forces are also formed from that same English public school system and they lead the armed forces in much the same way as the parliament and English local councils run England and the UK.

    I have no doubt that the present day squaddie has no better regard for the Officer classes than they had in my days in the MOD.

    It has always been so – did not Nelson famously say, (while leading a United Kingdom force, “England expects every man to do his duty”, but truth was that Five of Nelson’s 27 captains of the Fleet were Scottish as were almost 30% of the fleets crews.

    So, really, it was not just 300 years of indoctrination but 300 years of bloody English upper class poor education and pig ignorance.

  152. Capella says:

    Oops – spoke too soon – the link has just dropped out. Wonder what the problem is. I was hoping to hear Nicola’s speech, it’s been well trailed.

    If anyone has a better link, please post.

  153. galamcennalath says:

    Dan Snow? I take great offence at any non Scots getting involved in our constitutional debate. It should be a matter for those resident in Scotland and those born here who feel they have a stake in the country’s future.

    Others, IMO, just reek of imperialism. What right do they think they have to get involved? The only logical answer is to maintain Greater England rule to their own benefit.

    In IndyRef2 we should tell outsiders to keep their noses out of our business. If they genuinely want to come here, live, work, and contribute to our nation, then great. If they intend to stay outside but interfere as some sort of imagined colonial right, then they should be told to bow out. (Polite version)

    Of course this includes most of the government in Westminster! They have no mandate or right to get involved.

  154. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Scott says at 9:54 am

    “The Cheviot the Stag and the Black Black Oil”.

    I caught the current Dundee Rep production recently at the theatre and it was really good also with a wee bit of updated material re: McCrone, and the Maritime Boundary move in 1999.

  155. Capella says:

    Dan Snow’s wife will have inherited vast acres of land in Scotland. Owning a lot of land gives you the right to manipulate the political process. Always worked in the past. Will Roseanna put a stop to that?

  156. Capella says:

    Another link which seems to be a live stream from the SNP conference. Might not last long:

  157. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    galamcennalath says at 10:46 am

    “Dan Snow?…. What right do they think they have to get involved?”

    Pretty sure it is the massive tracts of Scottish land Dan and his family own while paying hee-haw in tax that he believes gives him the right to get involved.

    Cant have the ‘Sweaties’ demanding payment of a land tax now can he? 🙂

  158. Nana says:

    @mr thms Thank you!!!!

    What an eye opener from just a quick skim through.

    Look at all those billions going to the treasury while Scotland gets poorer.

  159. mr thms says:

    #Capella at 10:44 am

    “If anyone has a better link, please post.”

    Do you mean other than BBC iplayer?

  160. Glamaig says:

    @galamcennelath 10:46

    Bussing activists up from England, campaigning by politicians not representing Scottish constituents, and just about everything Better Together did is ‘external interference’ in my book, and thats in contravention of this UN Resolution.

    Reaffirming the obligation of Member States to comply with the
    principles of the Charter and the resolutions of the United Nations regarding the right to self-determination, by virtue of which all peoples can freely determine, without external interference, their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development,

  161. heedtracker says:

    Of course this includes most of the government in Westminster! They have no mandate or right to get involved.”

    There biggest problem isn’t so much Scottish independence, its that Scottish democracy will also spread into England.

    If Westminster was a PR democracy like Holyrood, instead of the red or blue tory revolving door to no.10 at present, its extremely likely that England’s tory party would the same laughing stock they are in their Scotland region. And filthy rich dudes like that twit Snow that have never done a decent days work in their lives, might actually have to pay equitable tax.

    The horror.

  162. mr thms says:


    I had a look on the BBC website to see how they covered the first report and there was nothing.

    I did come across this item from 2013..

    “Mr Cameron added that he hoped to “galvanise collective international action” on tax evasion and wanted a renewed focus on “transparency, accountability and open government” around aid given to poor countries.

    He also revealed that he had ordered an urgent review of the UK’s failure to sign up to the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative, which published payments by firms to governments.

    Of the other G8 countries, the US are so far the only signatories.

    “We cannot call on other countries to live up to these high standards if we are not prepared to do so ourselves,” explained Mr Cameron.”

  163. Capella says:

    @ Mr thms – yes, other than BBC iPlayer. I don’t have a TV licence and want to obtain info from almost any other source than the BBC.
    Other people might be in the same position so it’s important to promote alternative sources IMO.

  164. DerekM says:

    I know we are a welcoming people who do not mind people from other countries living and working in Scotland but can we make one exception for Dan history bawbag Snow please?

    What a bunch of cretins take a good look Scotland these are the people you will be voting for if you vote no to indyref2 and they do not give a shit about you or your children they only care about their own selfish interests.

  165. heedtracker says:

    1.10 mins in to Today show, SNP v v bad, shock. BBC r4 and Sarah Smith, mummy a Labour Baroness, really stick the UKOK boot in, Sarah Montague intros with, “SNP v v bad for more than a decade, despite spending more per head than anywhere else, record in education has been poor, hitting the some of the most socially deprived areas the hardest…” They even hit the poorest the hardest, aren’t the SNP bad.

    If you can get past that BBC tory intro honking at you, to hard core red tory Sarah Smith, well done!

  166. Valerie says:

    Oh, another great performance from Mike Russell with Faisal Islam. I said a while ago, Mike had a terrier quality.

    Faisal using his best incredulous voice about Scotland not having these powers to go off and make deals in EU.

    Mike saying we are representing Scottish interests and businesses, which we frankly don’t trust Mr Fox to do.

    Haha, it’s brilliant.

  167. Andrew McLean says:

    Life, it’s funny sometimes.

    Here is something I have learned. Most people are genuinely decent people, just trying to get by, regardless of all the misfortunes life can throw, we all try to have respect, even, sometimes especially with people whose life view is different to ourselves.

    Then you get “them” we all know one of the, don’t we, something isn’t quite right, often we can’t put our finger on it, just a hunch, one best to be avoided, ignore and they may go away. The bore at a party, the nosy neighbor, twitching behind his curtain.

    As true as “birds of a feather, fly together” it’s only when two or three get together, do they become a malevolent force. History tells us the more they have an audience, the more excited and extreme they become.

    The independence debate is just a convenient peg for them, if it wasn’t that it would be something else, all the better for them to exercise their bitterness and hatred, because they know, they have the self awareness, that they will always be viewed as THE strangers in our midst.

    How many here have felt a disquieting urge, looking?

  168. Robert Peffers says:

    @yesindyref2 says: 15 October, 2016 at 2:39 am:

    ” … But it gets different views out and of course, the media love people who are going against “the party line”.

    There is a great misconception, (probably knowingly), propagated by the despicable MSM, that there is such a thing as the SNP, “party line”, being set by the elected to government SNP leaders. This concept quite simply is not possible under the SNP Party set-up.

    It actually works like this :-

    All SNP members have exactly the same number of votes. That is we all get just one vote.

    The executive DO NOT dictate party policies but they may well suggest what they should be. However, any party member can propose a motion for National Conference at any branch meeting. If that motion is seconded then it must be debated and voted upon at that branch. If there is a majority for it at branch level it goes forward to Constituency Association level and the process of proposal, seconding, debate and vote goes on.

    It is thus only at national Conference that Party Policy is made by delegates from the branches and it is not at party headquarters by the SNP executive. Thus the SNP are the ONLY really democratic run political party in the United Kingdom.

    Not only that but the party is funded by its members so no co-op, Trade Union or business funding paying the pipers and choosing their tunes.

  169. galamcennalath says:

    Me @ 10:46am and others.

    “Dan Snow”

    Wow. I thought he was just some TV show front man. Brother in law of the Duke of Westminster. Mrs Snow is very well to do.

    A picture of the land the Snows apparently own ..

    NOW, I understand his vested interest in meddling in Scottish affairs.

  170. “I give homage to Scotland.
    Sons of Scotland, I am William Wallace and I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny.
    You’ve come to fight as free men, and free men you are.
    What will you do with that freedom?
    Will you fight?
    Aye, fight and you may die. Run and you’ll live, at least a while.
    And dying in your bed, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they make take our lives, but they will never take our Freedom.”

  171. Bob Mack says:

    This is quite intriguing. I have a friend checking out this Andrew Skinner guy. I believe he comes originally from a street in Shettleston. The family IF it is the same guy is well known in the area.

    I suppose I urge caution here ,but if it is the same guy, then it explains rather a lot about Scotland in Union and their organisation

    Let me just say that there would be very strong Orange Order connections, but also very strong Ulster Paramilitary connections too. There is another family who lived in the same street with similar background.

    If and I emphasise if this is the same guy then we are seeing a somewhat rough command structure being put in place. By that I mean Financing, leadership, and foot soldiers with links to Ulster. Direct links ,not tenuous. Something about his face rang a bell in my head last night.

  172. heedtracker says:

    How many here have felt a disquieting urge, looking?

    SNP on facebook’s got a good conference video link and some of the UKOK roaster fraternity from all over the shop.

    Anyhoo, Last week someone called Callum Walker piped up on SNP facebook, with usual BBC style SNP bad, look how awful Scotland is under uncertainty of ref 2 etc.

    Just the usual Britnat tory stuff, Facebook lets you see who’s who and Calum’s got a lovely facebook page of Scottish blood sports and tweeded up gentry stuff. Callum is from Dundee, 24 and UKIP Scotland Chairman at UKIP Scotland, no less.

    Right click google, UKIP Scotland Chairman at UKIP Scotland and holy shit,

    THE chairman of UKIP in Scotland stood down yesterday after appearing in court on six sex charges.

    UKIP in cronyism claims after party donor’s son gets top Holyrood candidate billing”

    Takes all kinds. Blasting away at small furring animals, getting the UK out of the EU, barking mad or completely fine.

    Add friend?

  173. The Isolator says:

    Robert Peffers@

    “Not only that but the party is funded by its members so no co-op, Trade Union or business funding paying the pipers and choosing their tunes.”

    Exactly Robert..I recall my late mother ripping Alex Salmond a new one aoutside a conference hall a few years ago with regard to state funded religious schools.(She had been a member of the Scottish National Party since 1952).He looked as if he had been hit by a bus but genuinely interested in her viewpoint.It was entertaining as she was a HUGE Alex Salmond fan.Jim Sillars not so much lol.

  174. yesindyref2 says:

    On that media theme from my posting earlier there’s this from the Scotsman: “Theresa May hardens stance against indyref2” and similar elsewhere. The London media has run similar in the past but even harder really.

    I also saw a repeat of that QT as I was pottering around during the night, and not only did Salmond get little or no applause, Ameial Thornberry got none – less than Salmond. Which shows how biased the audience was. So the question is, if the non-politically active populace see this, what do they think of it all?

    But also Thimbleby would select questions which were assertions – then move on without giving the right to answer. That is something that should be clipped onto youtube and made available to the undecided under something like “BBC Bias – episode 312”. Short but complete 1 or 2 minute clips. The BBC can be our best weapon, we need to use it. The Rev does, it needs more. A whole library of them. An album!

  175. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Bob Mack says at 11:43 am

    “The Ulsterisation of Scottish politics” that Weetabix Boy was on about then??

    Nae good if WM are looking at upping the ante in their divide and conquer model:(

  176. Fred says:

    Was Neil Oliver there or was he washing his herr?

  177. scotsbob says:

    BBC Scotlandshire mid day news headlines. “Nicola Sturgeon will be making the closing speech at the SNP conference.” There then followed a clip, not from Nicola, but from Margaret Curran telling us that Independence is bad.

  178. Black Joan says:

    @heedtracker 11.26 am. re the R4UKOK Today programme — one can just imagine the editorial meeting that lay behind that SNP-badfest re education in Scotland.

    Sarah Smith in the chair submits a list of SNP-bad topics to her London masters. Yes, they’ll go for education. Adopt their best “concerned of London” voices and practise saying “the SNP government” in tones which make it sound like a particularly disgusting disease.

    Job done and never a mention of Glasgow Labour Cooncil Bad. Oh no.

  179. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Peffers
    Yes. There are problems, too many branch resolutions knocked back. Time at the conference is the problem, but there does need to be a solution. Perhaps a secondary lot at fringe meetings on the first day, best of the lot added to the agenda. I think all the resolutions from my branch were knocked back. Pleased to say my own branch are not “sycophants” 🙂

    At the moment there is that hierarchy, branch ==> constituency ==> HQ (in some ways). I thnk the SNP could consider adopting some kind of relational structure, where each branch had two avenues, constituency but some other if that doesn’t get the desired result. That’s too vague at the moment for me to explain properly though. It could be that every branch has the right to push up and up through the structure and in the end have the right to a short presentation to the leader.

    There’s an excellent (Quaker origins) company I did a load of contracts for (half) in my previous life had that kind of rights for every employee, right the way up to being flown to the US and presenting the case to a VP or President. It empowers people, and hence rarely needed to be used.

  180. call me dave says:

    The stars are aligning for a second independence poll
    Kevin McKenna


    I have much respect for MacAskill and he gave one of the best ‘heartfelt’ speeches for independence in 2014.

    Just feel he is being put up sometimes by the media as, SNP ditherer, for remarks made, some out of context I’m sure. 🙂

    Geez! No Djokovic in final. ‘Ach well’ 🙂

  181. kailyard rules says:

    Tinto chief @10:10.
    Re your “list of writers” you would have been better to bin them. That way they are out of circulation.

  182. DerekM says:

    @ galamcennalath

    Yes that is who Dan Snow is.

    You see for people like Dan crashing the pound is great news as the non existent capitol gains tax in the UK means they can buy expensive classic cars then resell them for a higher value without paying a penny on the profit.

    Its a jolly good show old boy if you have a spare million quid lying about that you can turn into 3 million without paying a penny.

  183. My view is that as Tory austerity doesn’t affect the Dan Snow’s of this world, all they are interested in is protecting their vested interests and using Scotland as their playground.

    Meanwhile OT Theresa May had told the NHS in England there will be no extra money for it and it should urgently focus on making efficiencies to fill the £22bn hole in its finances.

  184. heedtracker says:

    Black Joan says:

    Its another spectacular display of BBC attack propaganda but its just routine daily or hourly SNP bad out put now.

    The real issue is, can the BBC alone get the SNP out. Sarah Smith’s SNP bad spin’s very anti SNP but they’re probably aiming at holding down any increase in SNP vote for Holyrood, with a target of halving the 56 SNP MP’s in Westminster next GE. From there, they can continue building on their anti Scottish independence campaigning.

    BBC’s main targets are Scottish middle and upper middle classes with a continual focus on their version of Project Fear and misinformation. They clearly cant get the Slabour vote going at the moment so they really have little choice now but to keep pounding away at middle Scotland. If they lose even a small percentage of middle Scotland and that’s it for tory UKOK.

    Ofcourse our chums in Pacific Quay are all extremely middle and upper middle class Scotland. So its just the usual BBC Scotland creep out watching the liggers in action over endemic Scottish poverty. Its rather stinky, BBC hypocrisy.

  185. Capella says:

    SNP Conference speech, Fraternal Address by Bethan Jenkins, AM Plaid Cymru, was a cracker. Don’t know if BBC broadcast it but well worth catching it if you can.

    Nicola due to speak at 15.15. They’re clearly doing a security sweep of the conference during the lunch break.

    Re Ulsterisation. You could be right. I thought the sudden and orchestrated appearance of the OO mob in George Square the day after Indyref was no coincidence. Some were said to have been bussed in from NI. You can imagine the chaos that would have been engineered had YES won.

  186. Wuffing Dug says:

    Yoons now pushing their agenda at local level.

    Fubar news, a widely regarded facebook group here in Aberdeen gleefully reporting the BBC gorilla ‘gaffe’ on their feed.

    Lots of frothing yoonery btl.
    Same demographic as mob above probably.

    Promptly unfollowed.

    Was getting a bit sick of reading the whining, vacuous utterings of their readership anyway.

    Fubar is a wee window into the Aberdeen psyche – it ain’t pretty! 🙂

  187. Grouse Beater says:

    Wuffing Dug: “Fubar”

    Not exactly a crisp, memorable title, either. LoL.

  188. Bob Mack says:

    There is one very interesting name on the Advisory Board of this Scotland in Union group. That name is Sir Alistair Irwin, who is now retired. He was the officer commanding all troops in Northern Ireland prior to retiring. He now is involved in veterans. At one time he also commanded The Black Watch.

    Why would they want him on their advisory board?

  189. Luigi says:

    Capella says:

    15 October, 2016 at 12:25 pm

    I thought the sudden and orchestrated appearance of the OO mob in George Square the day after Indyref was no coincidence.

    Indeed. Behind the monkeys at George Square, someone was grinding the organ in the shadows. Dark forces at work. Carefully orchestrated. It was a show of strength and intimidation, supposed to scare the Indy supporters back into the box. “Don’t mess with us”, “Obey your Queen”.

    The NO result certainly encouraged those nutters to crawl out from under the stones, but strings were being pulled to help it along. The Ultra yoons were not so tough when those huge indy marches were taking place (most just scowled in the shadows). The George Street incident didn’t quite work out according to plan. In fact, IMO it backfired spectacularly. 🙂 The big problem the Ultra Yoons have is that there just aren’t enough willing idiots to come out and support them in Scotland anymore. Like the xeno-tories and Brexiteers down south, most people in Scotland view them with contempt.

  190. scotspine says:

    Re Irwin. He is an establishment figure with serious military gravitas. Someone they can gather around and who can offer military expertise if necessary. There are a good few of these elderly retired Generals in Scotland. They all network and foster this British cultural identity – keeping the natives down and ensuring continued dominance of the establishment. That MSP Edward Mountain (ex military and English Baronet) is another example.

    @ Bob Mack

    If your enquiries confirm your fears, I would report the matter to the Police. They may not take any overt action, but it puts that organisation on their intel radar.

  191. scotspine says:

    Without sounding tin hattish, I would bet my bottom dollar that this site and contributors are being monitored in some way.

    It / we is / are after all, a threat to the integrity of the UK State.

  192. Breeks says:

    Stating the obvious perhaps, and perhaps a thing everybody feels, is frustration that by far the vast majority of unionist NO voters aren’t very Unionist at all, but living very introspective lives which are largely immune to external influences. You get the impression if they drove a car off a cliff, they’d feel ok about it so long as they got to sit in their own car while doing it.

    It’s tantalising and elusive, but I am sure there is a “short circuit” to unionism. Perhaps not for your true red and white and blue Captain Flasheart wannabes, but for Joe-slow who has a good heart, but has simply read the Daily Record in the works howf for 40 years and never had due cause to change his routine.

    The Joe-slows of Scotland are susceptible to BBC and newspaper propaganda because even lacking proof, they are prone to believe where there is smoke there is fire. Isn’t there a little voice like that in all of us?

    A typical example is the entrenched belief that Alex Salmond is disliked and dishonest, yet when tested, these Joe-slows cannot quote you what Alex Salmond did that was so dislikeable, nor quote you any single thing Alex Salmond said that was dishonest.

    You can bawl numbers at these folks, and watch their eyeballs glaze over as you speak. I cannot really blame them. We are all conditioned to hear bad economic news described in terms of billions, but in our heads we get brain freeze about whether a billion is a hundred million, a thousand million, or a million million. You’d think that might be important no? The news is tweaked to make us think “oh dear” at a billion but then pass over the small print about what a billion is.

    These folks aren’t foot soldiers for unionism. They’re never going to take to the streets in angry protests. They are certainly never going to line themselves up shoulder to shoulder with these Scotland in Union pillocks.

    What they are going to do is buy a Daily Record on the way to work on Monday, chat about the footie on the back page and the scandal on the front when they stop for a cuppa. That is how the propaganda gets into common circulation, and creates antithesis to Independence which is a gut feeling rather than an informed opinion. The Daily Record is on their side through war and peace… or so they think.

    I repeat what I’ve said. I am sure there is a short circuit to cut through all this stubborn inertia, and the Scottish Government would do well to develop a strategy that reaches these folks and gets through to them.

    The Wee Blue Book is ideal because it can be left everywhere, and slipped into somebody’s pocket to be read later when their Daily Record buddies aren’t looking, or slipped onto the canteen table or doctors waiting room discreetly.

    Wee Blue Book, Wee Black Book, Wee Whatever colour you like Book, it’s a brilliant concept, and the SNP / Scot Gov should do their own complimentary version and print millions of them.

    There are a lot of these working men types, and they are easy converts if you can just get them to look beyond their Daily Record. News of Scotland’s wealth IS news to them. In my experience, they do believe Scotland would be bankrupt if it voted for independence, but importantly they don’t like the belief. Being told Scotland is NOT a basket case invariably makes them smile, even if they still don’t quite believe it.

    Credible and digestible evidence, evidence like that list of Scotland’s products just yesterday or the day before, is the key to engaging these people. It isn’t complicated, but it requires the effort to make it happen. That is why the YES campaign; foot soldiers spanning the whole spectrum of Scotland population was effective, and then suddenly it all stopped.

  193. Capella says:

    The Independent dipped its toe into Land Reform debate in August. Have no doubt that large estate owners are organised to oppose reform. They are not democrats.

  194. Glamaig says:

    @mr thms

    thanks for that link, what a goldmine

    for example in para 3.2.4

    “Domestic production of oil and gas continues to supply around 50% UK hydrocarbon consumption.”

    i.e Scotland already produces 4 x its own hydrocarbon requirements.

    No wonder theyre getting twitchy.

    Also, the graph in Figure 3 would make you weep at what might have been. And wheres it all gone? Into offshore accounts probably.

  195. Proud Cybernat says:

    The right cut…

  196. Nana says:


    “where’s it all gone? into offshore accounts probably”

    Type Gordon Bowden boiler rooms into google and watch your blood pressure.

    A TRUE INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND website covered this massive fraud in March 2015. I linked to it at the time.

  197. Meindevon says:

    Careful Socrates…I went to Paisley Grammar..ages after Mr A Neil of course! 😉

  198. Jim Thomson says:


    Young @kendomacaroonbar is doing a sterling job with the iScot stand (no. 42) in the #snp16 conference exhibition hall. If you’ve never felt and seen the quality of the magazine now’s a great time to have a look.

    Then, much more importantly, find out how to subscribe. Then, just do it!

    He’s only here for another couple of hours. Move quickly folks.

  199. yesindyref2 says:

    @call me dave
    I tread carefully commenting on his articles. I think he knows what he’s doing, so just kind of leave him to it! Possibly a bit of a devil’s advocate role now he has no office.

  200. Mungo says:

    Breeks at 12.55
    Spot on Breeks ! Great positive comment. Agree with everything you’ve said there. Most people I know would love to believe Scotland can make it. I’m a taxi driver in Edinburgh and during the last indi campaign I managed to convince ( as far as I know ) lots of people in my cab by using the wee blue book. Every one of my mates voted Yes as well. Purely through providing them with information they had previously been denied by our rotten media.
    Next time we’re starting from around 45% yes. I’m confident, with the same energy and enthusiasm we showed in the first campaign, we can and will push that % up enough to win !

  201. yesindyref2 says:

    My French is rusty and at that I just skimmed it, but the article and the comments look pretty good to me.

  202. Glamaig says:

    @Breeks 12:55

    Wee Blue Book, Wee Black Book, Wee Whatever colour you like Book, it’s a brilliant concept, and the SNP / Scot Gov should do their own complimentary version and print millions of them.

    If it just shows Scotland’s resources e.g. we produce 4x our own hydrocarbon requirements, plus export 2-3GW of electricity before we’ve even started with wave and tidal power, its not political propaganda, its just geography education!

    I’ll ask my MSP if that can be done. Not holding out any great hopes, they would have to justify the spending to Parliament.

    If not, SNP or Yes will have to do it. Obviously we need expert input and to back it up with references.

    I think its worth far more *because* its not political, and clearly the BBC etc dont want people to know the truth on this.

    When you look at all this stuff it looks like theres something very very wrong with GERS. We need definitive backup for that too.

    And we need to move fast.

    Its the economy, stupid.

  203. G says:

    Sorry to go off-topic, but I’ve noticed people on Twitter questioning the reports of problems with ScotRail services.

    For the avoidance of doubt, and as anyone who commutes by train knows, ScotRail service has always been poor and is now atrocious. Rising passenger numbers have coincided with a lack of rolling stock, and generally poor customer service at many levels. It angers me to see this politicised by unionist politicians, but let’s not pretend that there isn’t a problem.

    People can’t take their business away from ScotRail, or vote out Abellio or Network Rail, so make no mistake, the government will face a backlash. And why shouldn’t they? I have heard reports that the government didn’t make rolling stock available when the new Borders railway opened. If that is untrue, then it’s time it was clarified. If true, it should be rectified. In the last few days, Westminster has announced improved compensation in England. From the SNP conference, there has been nothing. Are we seriously saying that after the disruption of the last year, we expect people to put up with more of the same or worse for at least another two years?

    It’s not good enough and I fear there will be a price to be paid.

  204. heedtracker says:

    G says:
    15 October, 2016 at 1:37 pm
    Sorry to go off-topic, but I’ve noticed people on Twitter questioning the reports of problems with ScotRail services.”

    Do you think Scotland as an ind pendent nation state will have the train services you need G?

    Also, what do you think the solution actually is to poor rail Scot rail services, other than SNP bad sort of thingees.

  205. heedtracker says:

    Rancid the Graun liggers in UKOK action today. Libby Carrel very busy actually, UKOK wise


    SNP bad, Scotland cant run Scotland at all well, so vote NO for ever says everyone at Graun and beyond. We’re just not fit for governing, too stupid sections include,

    “But Tom Clark at Prospect says independence might remain a dream for the SNP.

    The whole party wants Indyref2 to happen—if it is sure it can win. But that is an almighty if.

    Britain’s leading psephologist, John Curtice, kicked off the discussion [at a Prospect fringe at the conference] by summarising the polling on independence since the Brexit vote, which many nationalists had hoped would steel Scots—who voted to stay in Europe, and now face being dragged out by English votes—to make the split with the UK that they had ducked from making two years ago. Curtice, however, had dispiriting news. Few Scots, he said, cared all that much about Europe, and in fact a significant chunk of SNP voters had actually voted “Leave.”

    Britain’s leading psephologist, John Curtice, say Libby Carrell. This is another Graun lie, Prof Poultice is the ONLY psephologist in Britain, as long as he keeps the UKOK line going.


  206. Wuffing Dug says:

    Grouse @12.31

    I think their choice of title is quite appropriate – however, probably not in the way they intended. Aberdeen is indeed FUBAR.

    Frothing Unionist Bullshit, Allegations and Rhetoric.

    There, fixed it for them! 🙂

  207. Jock McDonnell says:

    @Breeks – nail on the head.

    Its what Salmond meant when he said there is a natural Independence majority in Scotland.

    The media are trying to give Joe Slow all the excuses to vote no. Its excuses, nothing more.


  208. Robert Graham says:

    O/T good to see Gerry Fisher stirring up the conference as usual he is a continuing pain in the arse to the SNP leadership and so he should be it stops them falling asleep.

  209. heedtracker says:

    BBC r4 Any Answers show quite funny right now, Scotland’s heading for oblivion says latest Englishman in Fife, with indy, and just one of long list of extremely NO callers, absolutely nothing YES at all, just the usual total monstering of Scotland running Scotland, on the hour Vote NO or you’re Doomed BBC. Its definitely getting worse by the day, UKOK propaganda wise.

  210. Meg merrilees says:

    Slightly O/T, sorry.
    E-mailed ‘Any Answers’ programme on BBC R4 this afternoon with a resume of Robert Peffers wonderful explanation of how the UK is a Union of ONLY 2 Kingdoms. How many people in the UK realise this?

    No surprises, it wasn’t read out on air!

    But, the usual, Scottish, elderly sounding people phoned in saying they were fed-up with all these repeated calls for Independence – for goodness sake just get on with the day job, etc.
    There’s some desperately angry people out there who just want to get on with Brexit, but you can smell the fear.

    Fasten the seat belts folks, turbulence ahead.

  211. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi ScottishPsyche.

    Finally got to the latest comments on this page! At 11.54pm last night, you typed,

    “SiU are like something from a 70s sitcom.”

    As soon as I read that, I was reminded of a series on Channel 4 that I enjoyed in the 80s. Could it be that SiU have drawn on that series for inspiration?

  212. Meg merrilees says:

    Earlier post disappeared; hope this hasn’t duplicated.

    E-mailed BBC R4 ‘Any Answers’ this afternoon with a brief resume of Robert Peffer’s explanation that the UK is a union of ONLY 2 Kingdoms.

    No surprises, it wasn’t read out on air!

    Plenty of elderly?, Scottish, callers phoning in to say that they are fed up with Independence referendums, why don’t they get on with the day job, SNP baad, we’re doomed, etc.

    Some very angry people out there, just want to get on with Brexit asap. South Britain has gone crazy.

  213. starlaw says:

    I agree with the English M.P. who wants to invoke the Dunkirk spirit…. clear off home and leave the Scots in Europe.

  214. Artyhetty says:


    O/T Never had any probs with Scotrail trains, my son uses them a lot, mostly an excellent service.

    Saw over on twitter someone say T.May saying you can’t have your referendum you poor, pathetic smelly scots,(but give is all your resources,lol) anyone know if this is true?

  215. ScottishPsyche says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon

    Ha! That is so spooky. I have no memory of that series but maybe I read or saw it somewhere. It really does fit. The overwhelming impression I get from them is that status and connections are everything. Good find.

  216. heedtracker says:

    Artyhetty says:
    15 October, 2016 at 2:57 pm

    O/T Never had any probs with Scotrail trains, my son uses them a lot, mostly an excellent service.

    It’s interesting to see if G comes back and gives us the low down Scot rail wise. We use it and its fine. Considering just how small Scotland’s rail network actually is, not just to our chums in the south, but across the whole of the EU, its a bit weird listening to the ongoin yoon rail freak out.

    If yoons want a better rail network, jump in their time machine and go back to 79′ when Scotland could have been running its own affairs n shit, like investing £300+bn not Scots oil revenues for the last 40 years or so, exact same oil revenues that were instead pumped into the greatest and most wonderful independent country in the whole wide world ever.

    But that’s not what goes on between the ears of your average yoon though.

  217. Black Joan says:

    R4UKOK Today prog and Any Questions/Any Answers both falling over themselves to proclaim SNP-Bad. Looks like Colonial broadcasting has thrown any last residual scrap of caution to the winds what with new charter requiring it to promote the UK.

    As for Scotrail . . . never had any problems. For a real example of Rail-Bad try Southern.

  218. heedtracker says:

    Very wealthy red tory yoonster shrieks, tax me more!

    Blair McDougall ?@blairmcdougall 52m52 minutes ago
    They’re not even pretending to be different from the Tories anymore. #indyref rhetoric utterly hollow.

  219. Valerie says:

    Regarding Abellio performance, easy enough to go to Scotrail site and see the overall performance, as well as broken into areas.

    No need to make wild, unfounded remarks about it, by anyone.

    I watched one of the Scottish Parliament committees putting the Executives of Scotrail through their paces. It was chaired by the Tory, Mountain. He was getting very agitated by people asking questions, and listening to answers.

    Isn’t that what all the fuss was about? None of the Opposition could get into the scrutiny committees properly? So a Tory gets the Chair, and he whined every 5 mins about folk taking too long.

    There is no doubt, the Committee had great concern for the travelling public, getting good rail services.

  220. heedtracker says:

    Blair McDougall Retweeted
    J.K. Rowling ?@jk_rowling 7h7 hours ago
    The damage wrought by populists, by @anneapplebaum in the @washingtonpost

    More money than god JK Rowling boosts a Labour party that borrowed more money than it takes generations to pay back.

    “But even if they look and sound different, even if they know how to use social media and techniques borrowed from reality TV, the new populists do share something with the old populists. Like their predecessors, they offer fantasies: sketchy plans, vague ideas, unfulfillable promises and, eventually, free money. Far from representing something new, they stand for something old: The very human longing for rapid, unrealistic, simple solutions to difficult problems — plus more cash.”

    The paragraph that caught JK Rowlings UKOK eye. Free money and Labour are a terrifying prospect again.

  221. Valerie says:

    Just an observation. Watching the end of Nicolas speech there, and you saw how protective and supportive Peter Murrell is.

    He literally swept a path through photographers for his wife to descend the stairs, so she could do her customary brief walkabout.

    Always just out of shot, but ready to dive in, if necessary.

    Very moving yesterday seeing the Brain family, and today listening to Aamer Anwar.

  222. heedtracker says:

    Valerie says:
    15 October, 2016 at 3:56 pm
    Regarding Abellio performance, easy enough to go to Scotrail site and see the overall performance, as well as broken into areas.

    The extra yoon madness behind monstering SNP and the Dutch railway companies, is that Holland has got a fantastic rail network that goes virtually everywhere and hooks up seamlessly across the EU.

    Its a stunning triumph of long term investment by the Dutch in an transport infrastructure that is designed to cope with, expand and encourage growth. Dutch trains are double decker for starters. Its taken them from the 70’s to get to this level of service but as we know in Scotland, our imperial masters have simply invested in England and in particular the south east. Meanwhile Scotland can go whistle, UKOK style.

    HS2 is just an incredibly WTF example of planning without any planning but for yoons to whine about crap Scottish railways is really coming it.

  223. yesindyref2 says:

    @ Jock McDonnell:

    Its what Salmond meant when he said there is a natural Independence majority in Scotland.

    Yes, I’d forgotten about that one, worth putting it about occasionally – subtly, in passing, quiet like, it gets into the mind! I haven’t used it for a long time.

  224. Ken500 says:

    The Inverness rail line gives through the 3rd rate reject Sir Mountain ‘wee’ farm.

    Two Tory journalists giving their bias views on the Conference.

    Cannibis for personal use is decriminalised. There are various forms of pain relief. Including morphine. The strongest drug of all.

    Drink/drug use long term leads to self harm, mental health issues, long term unemployment and early death.

  225. heedtracker says:

    Euan McSpanner strikes back, via a red tory booted out of office for a whole host of yoonster reasons. Whole of UK media in Scotland on quadruple overtime today, hysterically trying to think up a new way of saying SNP bad. Its not just that they’re all the most turgid hacks, its that they such ball aching bores.

    Brian Splaw Retweeted
    Tom Harris ?@MrTCHarris Oct 14
    Nicola Sturgeon should be stopped, not indulged, in her drive for independence. Me for the @Telegraph

  226. G says:

    I don’t think independence in itself is a solution. Some independent countries have great public transport, others not so much. I don’t know the extent to which the Scottish Government has its hands tied by procurement legislation, etc. Transport is a devolved matter, though of course an independent Scotland would have more control.

    There was a BBC feature that compared trains in Germany to those in the UK. The German service was less than half the price, less crowded, and more reliable. They say that this is because the British system is “fragmented, inefficient, and over-regulated”.

    Why do we pay train drivers £50k a year? How hard is it to turn up to work on time and press go? One source of delays and cancellations is staff not turning up.

    Whether because of higher employment or population growth, passenger numbers have been rising for years. We are rightly improving the rail network to try and cope with this. However, the main source of frustration at the moment is services that previously had six carriages currently running with two or three carriages. Is this because carriages have gone out of service or have been allocated to the new Borders line? Why has additional rolling stock not been purchased before now? Is there no way to get more without having to wait 12 months?

    The biggest cause of delays, more than train faults and staff shortages, seems to be signalling problems. No doubt this is decades of underinvestment coming home to roost. Network Rail need to be encouraged to improve their performance.

    English passengers will be getting more compensation. This is the only language the train companies understand. They couldn’t care less if people are late or packed in like cattle. They seem to be good at ensuring you are only 25 minutes late and therefore not entitled to any compensation. The compensation rates were actually better under First.

    There are lots of small things that any other business would sort out easily. Why do I need to log in THREE times to put a ticket on my smartcard? Why does it use non-standard date formats? Why do some carriages have heating stuck permanently on? Why does a tree falling onto the line at Helensburgh cause services from Edinburgh to be cancelled? Why are trees falling onto the line at all – shouldn’t the area beside the track be kept clear?

    I don’t have the answers, but people have been very patient up until now and are starting to lose their patience. I just have a sense that the SNP are going to cop the flack for it.

    For those who use ScotRail without any issues, I can only assume you don’t travel at peak times. Thousands of people will recognise my description and to attribute it to SNPBAD is misguided. And I realise that it’s not as bad as the south of England. But is that really our benchmark? As long as it’s better than the south of England it’s ok, even if worse than the rest of Europe?

  227. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ah, so this will be the 18th Century Slave Owning Class Reenactment Society? No, well perhaps they might be persuaded to support the people of Scotland’s “Right to Development?

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

  228. Flower of Scotland says:

    Watched the SNP conference on Facebook over the last three days.

    It was amazing. People interacting with hearts, likes, angry faces etc. It made it even more amazing.

    No need for the media, BBC channel or any other old fashioned for of watching an SNP Conference. People were loving it!

  229. heedtracker says:

    G says:
    15 October, 2016 at 4:30 pm
    I don’t think independence in itself is a solution.

    Quell surprise G.

    So if Scotland running Scotland isn’t the answer to your rail commute hell, what you moaning about it on WoS for?

    If you don’t want to pay a train driver a good wage for example, why don’t you moan about airline pilots earning triple what train drivers do and so on.

  230. HandandShrimp says:

    The great thing about this is that the more intemperate will blot their copybooks again in the future and what remains of Better Together for a second attempt at forming a grass roots coalition of the willing will be associated with them.

    Having said that it would be a brave current Labour politician (or an incredibly stupid one) that cuddled up to the Tories again.

  231. Hamish100 says:

    Scotrail– heard of Beeching? A yoon no doubt UNDER ruk ruk control.

    Heard of the Borders railway? How come liebour and tories didn’t build it in the past 50 YEARS after closure. Of course the lib dems tories and labour forced that over funded single tramline in the leafy Suburbs!! Sorry Leith -you don’t count it would appear!
    Could that money be invested elsewhere scotrail- think about it! ok times up.

    o/t Pretendy prof CURTICE says the First Minister has to be worried over several things in the next year.– and yet, as he spoke he looked more worried.

  232. galamcennalath says:

    starlaw says:

    “I agree with the English M.P. who wants to invoke the Dunkirk spirit…. clear off home and leave the Scots in Europe.”

    Good one 😉 St Valery and the 51st. Once met an old guy who spent almost five years in a German camp, left behind in Europe.

    Must remember to use that. Yes, we want the English to adopt a Dunkirk approach.

  233. K1 says:

    Well I was very moved by Nicola’s speech…when have we ever heard a world leader talking about love, our world leader literally shinning a light on the path forward… I just love Nicola Sturgeon.

  234. heedtracker says:

    This is pretty good from Euan McSpanner again. British spooks arrest and release one SNP guy during WW2, fast forward 70+ years and neo fascist UKOK yoonsters think its an indy killer. I am actually quite looking forward to see just how hard end of era SoS wets its union jack knickers tomorrow.

    Brian Splaw ?@BrianSpanner1 23m23 minutes ago
    Brian Splaw Retweeted mike elrick
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaBrian Splaw added,
    mike elrick @elrick1
    To think 75 years ago some Nats were looking forward to permanent trade representation In Berlin too #SNP16 #SNPconference
    0 replies 1 retweet 0 likes

  235. G says:

    Heed tracker @4:37

    Did you actually read my reply or just the first sentence?

  236. Legerwood says:

    G @ 4.30 pm

    “”Why has additional rolling stock not been purchased before now? Is there no way to get more without having to wait 12 months?””

    Abellio put in an order for new rolling stock about one month BEFORE they took over the contract. The first tranche of new rolling stock is being built in Japan and the rest will be built in England.

    Abellio’s order will have to take its place in the queue when it comes to being built. In the meantime I believe they have leased some rolling stock to tide them over.

    They also have a refurbishment programme for existing rolling stock which means some are always out of service.

    Network Rail are in charge of track and signalling as well as the electrification programme. It is worth pointing out that they are a nationalised company in all but name and have debts of around £34 billion.

  237. Juteman says:

    You will have to try harder on this site.

  238. heedtracker says:

    G says:
    15 October, 2016 at 4:50 pm
    Heed tracker @4:37

    Did you actually read my reply or just the first sentence?

    I refer you to the comment my honourable friend Legerwood just gave:D

  239. HandandShrimp says:

    PS I wasn’t suggesting Sarwar is brave there 😉

  240. Iain More says:


    Re trains. Yup only 3 carriages at Aberdeen on the day of a Scotland footie match last Saturday. There wasn’t even elbow room after Perth. God knows what it would have been like if the game had actually sold out. Bad management and even worse planning????

  241. Proud Cybernat says:

    Aye–the wealthy and mega-wealthy doing very nicely out of the yoonyin. No vested interest there then.

    See you all on the Kenyan safari – chalks away!

  242. galamcennalath says:

    Funny how a certain brand of Yoons use the word ‘populist’ as if it in some way always leads to fascism.

    Wiki, ‘Populism is a political ideology that holds that virtuous citizens are mistreated by a small circle of elites, who can be overthrown if the people recognize the danger and work together.’

    I think that’s a pretty fair description of our situation!

    What the Yoons fail to see is that our cause is ‘populist’ only at a UK level. Almost ALL of the ‘small circle of elites’ we seek to rid ourselves of are EXTERNAL to Scotland.

    Goons think in UK terms, so in that respect we are populist. However in a Scottish context, we have no small abusive cliche requiring to be overthrown.

    The minor problem we do have (minor in comparison the overbearing London) is nothing that a dose of land reform wouldn’t sort out.

  243. JLT says:

    We knew this sort of thing would not only happen, but would exist in some sort of form after the 2014 Referendum. However, it would be very interesting, should a 2nd Referendum take place, if ‘Scotland in Union’ will be recognised by the official ‘Union’ movement (when it is finally invoked).

    If it truly is made up of people supporting other nefarious organisations (you know the ones) and other shady characters, then that will be rather interesting. We all saw how Better Together always seemed to be in perpetual fear of some of the other groups and supporters of its campaign.

    For a laugh, I should take time out and have a look at their site (I never look at Unionist sites. It’s the same godawful nonsense where all they do is foam at the mouth as they denounce Scottish Nationalists and the SNP and say how terrible ‘nationalism is’ (the irony!)). But I suppose at the same time, I’m very curious to see their key arguments for remaining in the UK Union, especially in light of Brexit.

    Surely unlike all those other Unionist Facebook pages, it just can’t revolve around just how wonderful her majesty is and that the British Army is just great …but then again …you never know…

  244. Robert Louis says:

    The problem with railways in the UK (not just Scotland) is that they are run by a myriad of private companies, with one single objective, maximising profit.

    Despite what unionists like to lie, the Scottish Government CANNOT award the Scotrail franchise to a state or council or publicly run body. That is, it MUST be run by a private company. In addition, the awarding of such contracts is very restrictive, in terms of what can and cannot be included within the criteria for selection. This is ALL down to Westminster reserved legislation.

    Ahh, but you say, Abellio are actually the Dutch state railways, owned by the Dutch government. Yes indeed, that is true, but the legislation created by Westminster only excludes publicly funded bodies from within the UK.

    Despite being in power in Westminster for more than a decade, the Labour party did not change this. It is legislation which the Scottish Government does not have the power to change – since those powers remain reserved to Westminster (thanks to Labour and Tories).

    Therefore, in many ways the Scottish Government’s hands are tied. As other have pointed out, even if Abellio ordered 500 new super duper trains, it would be several years before they would be ready – they actually take quite some time to manufacture.

    People can blame the Scot gov if they want to, but they would be wrong. Until such time as railways are taken back into state control, they will remain rather sh*te throughout the entire UK. As such independence, would for the very first time, free up the Scottish Government (which ever party) to nationalise the railways, and stop running them for increased profits of wealthy shareholders.

  245. G says:

    “So if Scotland running Scotland isn’t the answer to your rail commute hell, what you moaning about it on WoS for?”

    Like I said, I think the SNP should be doing something about it. Not the same thing as saying it’s the SNP’s fault.

    “If you don’t want to pay a train driver a good wage for example, why don’t you moan about airline pilots earning triple what train drivers do and so on.”

    Because I’m paying their salary through astronomical ticket prices. They are making more than 90% of the passengers on the train for what is a very easy job that people would queue up to do for half the salary. Well done you for defending No-voting train drivers though.

    If you choose to imply that I am a unionist troll because I suggest that the SNP isn’t doing enough on ScotRail, that’s up to you. I am strongly pro-Indy. I have been voting SNP since most of Scotland was still getting excited about the prospect of New Labour. This issue doesn’t affect my commitment to either. But denying what is patently obvious to most of the rail-travelling public because the issue has been hijacked by Yoon halfwits doesn’t help anyone and makes you (and by extension, us) look silly. Anyway, I’ve said my piece so won’t be replying further on this topic.

  246. Robert Louis says:

    Have we now reached a new level of ‘sophisticated’ concern trolling. Admirable effort, but freaking obvious to regular folks around here.

  247. G says:


    “You will have to try harder on this site.”

    Good grief.

  248. HandandShrimp says:

    I remember Skinner’s Vote No page. It attracted an alarming bunch of far right military fetish ultra loyalists. I recall him trying to post a tribute to Nelson Mandela and we Vile Cybernats sayning “fair do’s that it that is an ecumenical matter” and his own “likers” descending into a spittle flecked rage about to a tribute to terrorist on their page.

    That was one mental site…good for a laugh though. I never felt that it was a threat because most sane Scots would have run a mile from the sort of views expressed by the regulars there.

    Skinner is a Labour activist isn’t he?

  249. Meg merrilees says:

    Valerie @ 4.09 pm

    Am I being unreasonable by expecting to see a video of some of Nicola’s conference speech this afternoon relayed on the BBC website?

    I don’t think that’s an unreasonable expectation given that there was lot’s of the Misses May and Davidson featured on the same website during the recent tory party conference.

    It’s not as powerful reading someone’s interpretation of what Nicola said as opposed to hearing her own delivery, but surely the BBC wouldn’t so biased as to be SO obvious???

    Andy Murray through to Shanghai final tmrw, Djokovic eliminated in semis today. Go Andy!

  250. Robert Louis says:

    For the record, what the Scottish Government is doing to improve railways in Scotland is on several levels. The biggest overall project (and it is big), currently underway, and responsible for many of the delays/re-scheduling is EGIP (the Edinburgh Glasgow improvement programme.

    It is an investment of 742 million pounds by the SNP Scottish Government to achieve the following;

    150 single track km of new electrified railway

    One new station. Edinburgh gateway

    Three completely redeveloped stations, Cumbernauld, Haymarket and Queen Street

    One new electric depot, Millerhill

    Platform extensions at four stations, Linlithgow, Polmont, Falkirk High and Croy

    42 minute fastest journey time on the E&G express route (via Falkirk)

    30% increase in capacity by 2019

    So, what does this mean, well by electrifying the EG route, faster and longer trains can be run, but before running longer trains, the platforms at certain stations listed above must be lengthened (currently to short for longer trains). Faster, longer trains, so more seats per train and per hour at peak times.

    The new electric trains will allow current rolling stock to be used elsewhere within the network, so increasing capacity on other routes as well.

    Details here;

    So, in short, Scottish Government funded improvements are underway, but they take time (see current progress at link above).

  251. call me dave says:

    Nicola spoke well and it was a good list, consolidating the work the SG have put in since being elected.

    I am quite happy knowing that Indy 2 will be along soon.

    PS: Found this which I had missed yesterday.

    Could the SNP bubble be about to burst?
    Tom Gordon read a book. 🙂

  252. Meg merrilees says:

    @ 5.46pm

    Correction. Short video of Nicola just appeared on the BBC website. Note to self – must not jump to irrational conclusions!!

  253. G says:

    Robert Louis says:
    15 October, 2016 at 5:29 pm
    “Have we now reached a new level of ‘sophisticated’ concern trolling. Admirable effort, but freaking obvious to regular folks around here.”

    So sophisticated that I’m not even aware of it.

    Thanks guys, it’s been an eye-opener.

  254. HandandShrimp says:

    It has been an excellent conference. The future, as ever, is uncertain but the ball is in May’s court and it has a fearsome topspin on it.

    I think there was an interesting mix of ideas and motions passed and the move to legalise medicinal cannabis was a bold one. As much as the naysayers hate the SNP it is clear that the SNP conference was where it is at. The coverage and tens of thousands of comments on it demonstrate that.

    Can anybody remember anything about the Labour conference other than Jeremy winning? the Liberal conference (assuming there was one)? UKIP (a leader that lasted a few days)? The Tory conference “let’s keep a list of foreigners”

    A launch pad with solid foundations was laid this weekend.

  255. Robert Louis says:

    Yes, great speech and all, largest political party conference in the UK and increasing party membership, but unionists in the papers tomorrow will all want to know, ‘is the honeymoon over for Sturgeon’? 🙂

    It seems like we are heading in just one direction, and to a very large extent, it is mainly because of what the Tories in London are doing.

  256. Robert Louis says:

    Hand and shrimp,

    Of course famously, at the Labour conference, they decided NOT to debate brexit. (beggars belief).

  257. Bob nugent says:

    He was rabbiting on aboot Battle of Hadtings and english kings an french lords an norwegian vikings fighting for the right to be King of England when some unknown died.
    He was foaming at the mouth about his beloved english army
    He forgot his History when hecsaid it was a BRITISH WAR
    Factually wrong as scotland was STILL A SOVERIEGN COUNTRY THEN.

  258. heedtracker says:

    If you choose to imply that I am a unionist troll because I suggest that the SNP isn’t doing enough on ScotRail, that’s up to you.

    If independence isn’t the answer to your rail commute problems, what do you want the SNP to do about it?

    Its not a short term fix. Over capacity at peak times says a great deal though.

    Are you a troll? who cares.

    You need to be more specific as to what you think can be done and above all else, you wont find me moaning about working class jobs that are well paid.

    For fcuks sake, this is what its all about. How come no one grinches SNP bad on WoS at getting reamed by the law profession and so on.

    If you’re tory G, please accept my humble apolo gees wont you.

  259. Bob Mack says:

    I enjoy the railway debate,and I am aware that the Scottish government is at the beginning of a modernisation programme upgrading stations ,lines, and rolling stock.

    A recent event of such was Queen St in Glasgow.
    The problem the Scottish government has though is with the rules on tendering. The best value bid must be accepted based on several different criteria. It is not price only.
    The bids are marked separately by five different individuals and shortlisted. These individuals then meet ,compare and score the successful bids.

    There is unfortunately an element of cross your fingers and hope the bids and the representatives who promote their bids are being accurate.
    Hope this helps.

  260. G says:

    Heedtracker @6:04
    “you wont find me moaning about working class jobs that are well paid”

    What makes it a working class job? Is it because a monkey could do it? Seems to me the conductors have a much harder job for much less pay.

  261. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Louis says:

    “It seems like we are heading in just one direction,p …. mainly because of what the Tories in London are doing.”

    People have posted something along these lines several times …

    “Independence is too big a job for the Scots alone. For something this big you need the help of the Tories.”

    … always struck me that there is some truth in that view. So far, with this Brexit fiasco, the Tories seem suicidal with their Union. It’s not just Brexit itself, it’s the shift to the right, the pandering to xenophobes, the attogant attitudes to Scotland, plans to bypass the democratic process, and it has to be said, some of the actual obnoxious personalities!

  262. Liz g says:

    While I thought the First Ministers speech was brilliant with just the right tone being struck for the messages she was delivering.

    I must admit to being quite proud that the biggest expression of enthusiasm seems to me,to be for addressing the issues that kid’s in care face.

    That response demonstrated to the watching world,that the conference was not full of raging nats only there to feed their independence obsession.
    But rather politically engaged adults identifying an important issue and showing support for the attempts proposed to address it.

    It sent such a clear message to those kids they do matter,and it’s not just Nicola who wants something to be done,everyone here does too.

    That’s what politicians are for,and I hope other’s take note, that they have been completely outclassed to day.

  263. heedtracker says:

    What makes it a working class job? Is it because a monkey could do it? Seems to me the conductors have a much harder job for much less pay.

    So many ways to skin a cat or a monkey.

    Youre an I could do that kind of guy G.

    There’s nothing worse is there, blighters getting over paid for doing sod all.

    Start a campaign for train drivers to take a pay cut then.

    Go back to Russia if you dont like it.

    In my day this was all fields.

    Communism hasn’t really worked anywhere G.

    Anyway, you still haven’t come up with any actual solutions yet.

  264. Buenaventura Durruti says:

    Says he voted in “Edinbruh”. Naw ye didnae. Ed-in-bu-rgh. FOUR syllables. Must try harder.

  265. Rock says:

    Vote only SNP in 2017 and and at all elections until after independence.

    Voting for the Greens and RISE instead of the SNP helps the unionists not the independence cause.

  266. yesindyref2 says:

    “Vote only SNP in 2017”

    Yea, and if the Greens and Rise do the same, that’s a whole loda of later preference votes wasted letting the Unionists in.

  267. K1 says:

    ‘Thanks guys, it’s been an eye-opener.’

    What is it with those that come btl to criticise the SNP and then when challenged they have a compelling need to lay out their ‘indy’ credentials as some how ‘proof’ that they are not unionists in outlook?

    It’s like it’s the same person over and over again with the exact same sentences and it’s always an ‘eye-opener’ to them when they are greeted with those who challenge what they have said?

    Another peculiar commonality is that they only respond to those who they feel have ‘impugned’ them. But never reply to those who have given them a full explanation and alternative view of the thing they came on to ‘go on’ about in the first instance.

    The thing is If indeed it is an ‘eye-opener’ then where the fuck have you been these past few years if this is the ‘first’ time you have ever come on to the number 1 Scottish Independence blog in Scotland and been met by other independence supporter’s questioning your ‘reasoning’ in your comment?

    Sarcasm is such a ‘poor’ replacement for grown up debate.

  268. Rock says:

    call me dave,

    “Former SNP justice secretary Kenny MacAskill warned Mrs May might block a referendum, saying she could simply tell the First Minister: “No, you’re not getting it.””

    Westminster can block a referendum?

    Robert Peffers?

    Liz g?


    Can you contradict a former SNP justice secretary?

  269. Rock says:

    Robert Peffers,

    “as a majority of the sovereign people of Scotland, being sovereign, cannot be overruled and Nicola has a mandate to hold a referendum from the sovereign people of Scotland.”

    Unfortunately, she does not.

    The SNP did not get a majority and the “independence supporting” Greens did not have a referendum in their manifesto.

  270. Andrew McLean says:

    About 35 years ago I went inter-railing round Europe, the trains were like interstellar spaceships, when ukok was still slamming doors shut.
    My point is the lack of investment in the railways, will not be reminded any time soon.
    In the meantime Scotland this is what you could have had

  271. Davie G. says:

    “I saw Dominion in a charity shop a while back: I was sorely tempted to get it purely to review its historical credentials”

    I’d have bought it, CJS will already have got his money from the book’s initial sale, whatever you pay for it would be going to support the charity, all the better if it’s a Scottish one.
    I liked the Shardlake books so I picked up a copy of “Dominion” from my local St. Andrew’s Hospice shop. It’s
    currently in my “to be read” pile, might be there for a good long while 🙂

  272. Andrew McLean says:


  273. Nana says:

    Nicola’s speech for anyone who missed it

  274. yesindyref2 says:

    Council elections
    Here you go, from 2012. Maybe more examples, can’t be bothered. So the SNP say SNP + SNP don’t vote for the Greens. Therefore the Greens say vote Green (+Green) don’e vote for the SNP.

    Ward 15: Maryhill/Kelvin
    Green goes out Count 5, fairly even split. SNP ahead count 7, so wons in count 8.

    Now then, imagine the Greens had hated the SNP in 2012, as some are trying to make them do in 1027.

    SNP goes out count 7, leaving LibDem winner count 8.

    Check it out. Ward 15.,_2012

    Now, if you don’t understand the STV voting system, STFU.

  275. yesindyref2 says:

    “as some are trying to make them do in 1027”

    Or even 2017. Same thing.

  276. heedtracker says:

    Rancid the Graun thing on Sturgeon speech usual muted stuff, with an odd round up from our friends in the south

    “Meanwhile, Labour’s new shadow local government minister, Gareth Thomas, will on Monday suggest that Scotland’s drive for more powers needs to be reproduced in England’s regions.

    Thomas said that Brexit would in time require central government to look at giving income tax-raising powers to regional authorities.

    He said: “When England voted to take back control in June, it wasn’t voting for even more of the same from Westminster.

    “Never mind another ‘shall we, shan’t we’ dance with Nicola Sturgeon, England needs its ministers to understand that Whitehall can seem just as distant as Brussels if you’re struggling to get by in Hull or Falmouth, Sunderland or Southampton.

    “Local areas should be given more control over how they raise revenue. The power to vary business rates. The power to amend council tax bands to make the tax fairer to all.

    “And if we’re going to, as in time we should, devolve more responsibility over services like education, housing, infrastructure and health, then at some point we’ll also need to look at localising elements of VAT and income tax.”

    And may UKOK god have mercy on their souls. God’s a tory too by the way.

  277. HandandShrimp says:


    Re: the Greens from their Manifesto

    “In a second referendum the Scottish Greens will campaign for independence.”

    There is a mandate

  278. G says:


    I’ve been posting on this site for months if not years, albeit infrequently.

    The exclamation was uttered “quelle surprise” when I gave my opinion that independence “in itself” wasn’t the magic bullet for solving ScotRail’s problems. Only an idiot would think it was. It was inferred (and later directly spelled out) that because I had raised a concern that the SNP could be (and be seen to be) more proactive in taking action on this issue that I was a concern troll.

    Yes, there were informative replies, but many of the posts were of this nature. Perhaps this wasn’t the right place to raise the issue. Clearly I have failed to get across the nuance of what I was trying to say.

    Peace, out.

  279. Capella says:

    Belgium has a federal syste, which is why the EU trate deal with Canada may fall. Wallonia says no.

    “Wallonia’s leader Paul Magnette said he would not allow the government to sign the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA).
    “I will not give powers to the federal government, and Belgium will not sign CETA on October 18,” Magnette told an emergency session of the regional parliament.

    Belgium’s federal government favors the pact but by law Brussels needs the backing of all seven regional, linguistic and federal entities.”

  280. Valerie says:

    K1 @ 7.11

    Well said. You always write what I’m thinking, but you are far more articulate.


    You don’t seem to get the point a number have made. You have come on for a big whinge about the railways. You have been offered evidence, pointed to facts, but it’s still SNP bad.

    If you have supported independence for so long, perhaps you can explain to us where the cash is supposed to come from, for the billions required to address decades of disinvestment?

    Have you even looked at the Scotgov site?

  281. yesindyref2 says:

    So here’s the reasonably definitive way to vote in your ward.

    If there are 3 SNP candidates, 2 Green and 1 RISE – all Independence supporting parties, then (numbered 1 to 6):

    If you’re SNP vote SNP, SNP, SNP, Green, Green, RISE
    or SNP, SNP, SNP, RISE, Green, Green

    If you’re Green vote Green, Green, SNP, SNP, SNP, RISE
    or Green, Green, RISE, SNP, SNP, SNP

    If you’re RISE vote RISE, SNP, SNP, SNP, Green, Green
    or RISE, Green, Green, SNP, SNP, SNP

    By all means leave 7-10 or whatever blank, OR pick your favourite Independent or Unionist over the other unionists.

    The difficulty is in which of your own candidates if you have more than 1, to put 1,2 or 2,1 – your local party should be able to tell you – my local branch have theirs worked out, as they did last time and got both SNP candidates elected. The shame is that the pro-YES candidate could also ahve been elected instead of the Tory / Labour. I’m working on that.

    And if anyone can prove that that would NOT have worked in 2012, then I’m all ears – prove it.

  282. Rock says:



    Re: the Greens from their Manifesto

    “In a second referendum the Scottish Greens will campaign for independence.”

    There is a mandate”

    They did not say that they would hold a referendum if elected.

    Was what you quote stated unconditionally in their manifesto?

    Were they not talking about a petition with a million signatures?

  283. Graeme Doig says:

    At the risk of getting jumped all over, jumping all over G after one comment was completely unnecessary.

    Not exactly gonna encourage folk to read or contribute and does the site a disservice.

    (Kickboxing stance taken for the backlash) 😉

  284. mr thms says:

    Rock says @ at 7:22 pm

    “Greens did not have a referendum in their manifesto.”

    While their manifesto did not say they would hold a second referendum if they won the election it does say

    “In a second referendum the Scottish Greens will campaign for independence. Until then we can build a bolder democracy, open up our institutions for greater citizen participation while pushing for stronger powers for Holyrood.”

    Can’t see them not voting for one if there is to be a hard Brexit.

  285. HandandShrimp says:


    The quote was lifted word for word from their manifesto. They made it clear that they would support a second referendum and campaign for independence should there be one. No one was under any illusion that they were not pro-independence when they voted for them in May.

  286. Bob Mack says:

    @Graeme Doig,

    Quite agree.
    Guy made a perfectly valid point.

  287. John Munro says:

    Alastair Cameron is an indefatigable contributor to ‘Any Answers’ , the reply version of ‘Any Questions’ or ‘Fascists’ Half Hour’ as it used to be known. To be fair to Mr. Cameron he comes across as a rather courteous and well spoken man: what we used to call a ‘gentleman’. However, his politics and social views seem to be stranded sometime round about the heyday of Alec Douglas-Home.

  288. yesindyref2 says:

    (Mayy 2015) “Patrick Harvie, who as co-convenor of the Greens holds the balance of power over the independence question after the SNP fell just short of a Holyrood majority, said that if a new referendum bill was put in front of him following an EU vote going against the wishes of the Scottish public, his MSPs would back it.

    And he’s repeated it since the EU Ref – more than once. I can not be bothered checking it out. Now, you prove he didn’t say that, or has said he won’t support one – and prove it.

    You won’t be able to, same as nobody will be able to prove that one single ward would have not worked out properly according to the voting formula above.

  289. yesindyref2 says:

    Don’t give up.

  290. Black Joan says:

    Just in from a faultless Scotrail journey.

    But G has a point.

    My journeys are rarely in peak time and not on busiest routes. My experiences of Scotrail are good, but Beeching, Thatcher, and Blair’s great treachery in not honouring his promise to reverse privatisation, have left Scotland and UKOK with a system suffering from woeful lack of investment and disgusting profiteering. Don’t attack the drivers’ pay– look at the gravy train that the rolling stock leasing companies are riding on.

    But it’s true: those inclined to see SNP-bad everywhere will blame the SNP for less than satisfactory rail travel (particularly if they have not been exposed to the deep joy and obscene prices of rUK rail travel — Scotrail is generally more reasonable). SNP needs to recognise that and make sure that the facts re investment — and the details of where its hands are tied — are publicised.

  291. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. those attempting to link populism intrinsically with fascism. Put simply, they are wrong.

    How to assess populist discourse through three current approaches

    Most of the studies on populism have attracted controversy in either the historical-geographical field or the theoretical-epistemological arena. In the historical-geographical field, in which phenomena are identified and located in space, there are three analytical perspectives. First, Agricultural Populism that started in Russia in the hands of a group of nardonik intellectuals or populists, for the purpose of recovering rural ideals as opposed to those of the Russian autocracy in the late 19th century.2 Something similar occurred in the US, as the farmers and people’s party with their agricultural economy attempted to halt financial and industrial capitalism and oppose elites of all sorts.3 Second, Latin American Populism. Here, populism holds a very special status owing to the fact that there is probably no country in the region that has not had populist leaders opposed to the oligarchic landowning establishment or North American imperialism. This political movement was, in many cases, quite effective, installing many presidents or at least non-traditional politics from which emerged opportunities for its adherents to become democratic leaders. In Latin America, populism arose in the middle of the 20th century and endures to the present time. Finally comes what is called neopopulism which started in Europe in the 1970s. It is characterized by right-wing politics, anti-immigration policies and xenophobic feelings.4

    So let me get this right, UKIP’s Brexit populism GOOD, SNP populism BAD?

  292. Legerwood says:

    Graeme Doig and Bob Mack

    Many who responded to G’s first post did not ‘jump all over him’ but gave him up-to-date information on what is happening with regards to the rail network in Scotland and in the process filled in what appeared to be gaps in his knowledge on the subject.

    In doing so I don’t think we did a disservice to this site but in fact did exactly what this site should do – be a source of accurate information.

  293. yesindyref2 says:

    Here’s a quote from your facourite newspaper, no, not The National:

    A Scottish Greens spokesman said: “Ahead of our conference in October we will be announcing to our members proposals for relaunching the Green Yes campaign.

    “Greens played a key role in the 2014 independence referendum and we will play a leading role in any forthcoming decision on independence.

    “Our new campaign material will inevitably include the reasons why Scotland should remain a member of the European Union and what currency we should have post-independence.

    Doncha just love the Express!

  294. heedtracker says:

    (Kickboxing stance taken for the backlash)

    All he was asked was, what did he want SNP to do about what he explains as terrible Scotrail services, under

    All he came back with was, drivers are over paid because a monkey can drive a train, and its too expensive, under SNP

    Its a groovy way of saying SNP bad. Despite the fact that in the union, Scotland’s transport infrastucture has always been, lets say, its always at the bottom of the UKOK priority, its always been half arsed, and its always beem miles behind what England and the rest of the EU take for granted.

    But lets kick drivers and the SNP, coz its all their stupid fault, not that nice Ruth Davidson’s crew of hard core fcukwit tories.

  295. Hoss Mackintosh says:


    I think this the correct site you are looking for…

    This is a pro-Indy political website – easy mistake to make.

  296. Capella says:

    List of devolved and reserved powers according to the BBC:


    Local Government
    Social Work and Housing
    Economic Development and Transport
    The Environment
    Agriculture, Forestry and Fishing
    Sport and the Arts


    The constitution
    Defence and National Security
    Foreign Policy
    UK fiscal and monetary policy
    Employment Legislation
    Social Security
    Transport and safety regulation
    Nuclear energy

    Transport is reserved. But obviously some aspects are devolved though not the overall principle that rail services in UK have to be provided by private companies or foreign state companies. That’s in the 1993 Railways Act. Looks like the Scottish Government can’t amend that.

  297. mr thms says:

    I remember that there were complaints about the SNP government not proceeding with the rail link to Glasgow Airport. What they were not proceeding with was the spur from Paisley to Glasgow Airport. They invested on major improvements from Central Station to Paisley. It was called GARL. It cost a lot of money.

    I’ve always thought that the extra capacity put on that line was preparedness for the final link

    Their investment has paid off.

    As a result of the city’s City Deal there are at least two schemes being proposed.

    This is one of them.

  298. Liz g says:

    Rock @ 7.12
    Yes absolutely… IF he did actually say it then he is wrong.

  299. John from Fife says:

    What was missing from Nicola’s speech today ??. It certainly wasn’t childcare. It could have been something for the people past child rearing age who will be instrumental in another referendum vote. Was there any mention ???.

  300. ronnie anderson says:

    @ G Its a long time since I was a railwayman ( guard ) {a monkey can drive a train} there is more to driving than than you would comprehend, & the biggest penalty for failure in protecting your train & passengers Manslaughter charge’s ,one of the few occupations where that can happen .

  301. Robert Louis says:

    mr thms,

    Exactly. Westminster regularly says lots of things which are not true. The magical power to actually prevent a referendum being held in Scotland is one of them.

    Perhaps the question to ask, is how? the next time somebody states that Westminster can block referendums being held.

    It is pure unionist spin to suggest London can block such a thing. Seems that many have fallen for it. Think about it outside the context of independence, and you realise why. A referendum is only ever asking for the opinion of the voting public. Nothing to do with Westminster.

    Aside from sending troops up to Scotland, and literally blocking the Scots Parliament, there is not a thing Westminster can do to block a democratic referendum.

  302. G says:

    Thanks, guys. Maybe I could have worded things better.

    @Hoss Mackintosh
    That is petty nonsense, mate. Have we given up trying to win people over? (Just to spell it out, I’m not talking about me, I’m talking about the average fickle person sitting on a delayed, overcrowded train and looking for someone to blame).

  303. yesindyref2 says:

    @mr thms
    Yeah, Christine Bell was also quoted by Salmond in Holyrood, at that time she was still neutral, not pro-indy though that happened later. There’s also this:

    Some top constitutional names there.

  304. harry mcaye says:

    John from Fife – what more can she do for pensioners though? Free prescriptions, free bus travel. Best performing NHS in UK. No control over pensions. Genuine question.

  305. Liz g says:

    John from Fife @ 8.41
    While I think your right there’s no direct statement to our Pensioners.
    We can still point out while campaigning There’s nae need tae worry that Nicola Sturgeon is trying to sneakily sell off the N.H.S

    I think that’s quite a big issue with Pensioners.
    And I don’t think there’s any doubt about it.

    She also said that the new plans actually came from the doctors.
    Contrasting that with how doctors are treated by Westminster will,I , think resonate with the older generation as they are usually quite respectful towards their doctors.

    So I think Nicola’s giving the campaigners something to work with.
    While not looking like she was trying to manipulate them or bribe them.

  306. Bob Mack says:

    @John from Fife,

    I think Nicola was focusing today on areas for reform especially around children and young people. All in all at my age I cannot say I do too badly. Last year Nicola focused on promises to protect older people’s income and has done so by refusing to increase taxation,bedroom tax mitigation, council tax freezes.Free eye care,free social care prescriptions etc
    She is I believe also setting up a bureau to ensure elderly, or retired have their income examined and protected.

    No doubt there will be more emanating from the resolutions at Conference, but how hum, Rome wisnae bit in a day

  307. Graeme Doig says:

    Take on board some of the responses to me @ 8:05

    Cheers folks.

  308. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Rock.

    You typed,
    “They did not say that they would hold a referendum if elected.

    Was what you quote stated unconditionally in their manifesto?”

    You raise two points there. Let’s take your question first – “Was what you quote stated unconditionally in their manifesto?”

    The fact that you have to ask that question means that YOU didn’t check your facts before you typed, “Greens did not have a referendum in their manifesto”. Which means, categorically, that you made up what you typed to concur with your own anti-Green agenda.

    Not cricket, young man, specially btl on Wings, where a large number of ‘alert readers’ hang out, waiting for your input after a few hundred comments on a page. Funny that – never within the first couple of hours of comments; always late in the day. I’m sure somebody posted a theory about posters who come into a discussion late in the day, a year or two ago…

    You then change tack to type “They did not say that they would hold a referendum if elected”.

    On which planet, or in which alternative universe, do you expect the Greens to form the government at Holyrood, meaning that they need to prepare for government in their manifesto?

    Their manifesto is a guide to what they will support in the Scottish Parliament; I’d suggest no more than that.

  309. Glamaig says:

    wow we are all being conciliatory on here today, must be feeling the love from Nicolas speech 🙂
    Had a tear in my eye for Mrs Chokar

  310. K1 says:


    No one said ‘Independence was the magic bullet’ for solving Scotrail issues. In fact no one was talking about Scot rail until you mentioned it in your first post at 1.37pm G. Heed answered you and actually asked what you might think the ‘solution’ could be and whether you think Scotland being independent might help ‘you’ with your issue. You came back to him with ‘I don’t think independence itself is a solution’. You then had your back and forth wi Heed.

    I can see how some may not have seen that initial exchange between you and Heed because you didn’t ‘direct’ your next comment to Heed’s reply to you? Which is kinda informal protocol on Wings G. Instead it looked like a ‘stand alone’ announcement as if it were out of the blue?

    Juteman made one comment about trolling and Robert Louis made one comment but the other three (including Robert L) folk who contributed information pertinent to your comments, you chose to ignore completely. Even though they actually contextualised the issues involved and explained the ‘nuanced’ reasons why the SNP’s hands are tied when it comes to ‘doing’ almost anything about rail services.

    So you were engaged regarding the points you raised far more than with what you termed ‘many of the posts were of this nature’. No they were not G.

    Why not address the points that those posters raised in relation to your original concerns G, instead of peacing out…and blaming the non existent ‘many’ who you ‘imagined’ were having a go at you?

  311. heedtracker says:

    harry mcaye says:
    15 October, 2016 at 9:13 pm
    John from Fife – what more can she do for pensioners though? Free prescriptions, free bus travel. Best performing NHS in UK. No control over pensions. Genuine question.

    You should have heard the aged Scots on BBC r4 Any Answers phone in show today, one in London, one in Tain. Needless to say neither was very conducive to Scotland running Scotland, or the EU, or any change, other than Great Britain standing up and Teresa should just tell the blighters in Holyrood and Brussels where to go.

    Or, hope I die before I get old.

  312. DerekM says:

    @ G

    Be careful G you are falling into a red tory yoon disinformation trap it was no coincidence that Dugdale brought up trains in FMQ`s after the tory fascist conference instead of attacking Ruth the mooth for her disgraceful behavior.

    Never forget the red tories will try to deflect attention away from their partners in crime,this is why others jumped all over you.

    We can sort the trains out once we become independent and have the resources to invest in our own infrastructure, while we are tied to a shrinking block grant from westminster that is impossible and westminster know this its all part of keeping Scotland down.

    Now instead of saying the SNP should sort this out understand they cant like many other problems Scotland faces while tied to this unequal union,the solution to this problem like all others is independence without out it we will be kept in a state of under investment.

    The latest examples are the removal of renewable energy and carbon capture technology investment.

    Beware of red tory scum we may have crushed them but while they still control Scottish broadcasting they will still try to spin the SNP bad crap.

  313. Kevin Meina says:

    I was at conference today and that was a speech by our leader had me choking back tears of pride be in no doubt she will lead us to independence ,I loved Alex Salmond but she is a level above and knows what she is doing.Keep the faith people it’s coming.

  314. uno mas says:

    Thank you Nana for posting link to Nicola´s speech.

    I thought she was outstanding and I too was very moved and so so proud that she is leading our campaign.

    I especialy liked the “All you need is love” bit!

  315. Sinky says:

    Robert Louise at 5.47 pm

    On Rail provision, you forgot to mention the highly successful Borders Rail Link the longest new rail line in whole of UK for 100 years.

    It’s a disgrace that Scottish government had to pay £300 million to remedy Westminster vandalism particularly as Scotland will be expected to pay towards the HS2, from London to Leeds. Costs have now rocketed to £8 billion, estimates the Institute of Economic Affairs.

    Scotland has been baling out rail in the south for decades.
    By Tony Blair’s time, £1.25 billion was lavished on The Jubilee Line. Next, in year 2000, as Scots were pleading for money to reopen the Waverley Line, John Prescott announced a £14 billion investment for rail and trams – only in England. This included an extension to the London Docklands light railway, £500m for Manchester and millions more for Nottingham right up to Tyne and Wear – all goodies stopping at the Border.

    During the 2000 debate on the Borders Rail line Kenny MacAskill simply asked Scottish Labour ministers: “Why do we not get our share of the £14 billion and just build it?”

  316. Luigi says:

    This old Bob Dylan song sums up perfectly what I feel is going on in Scotland right now. For the oldies, a trip down memory lane, but maybe some of the young dudes are not so familiar with the words. There’s a message in there for all of us, for the YES for the NO, for the yoons, for the politicians, for the journalists. Scotland has changed, and continues to change:

    Come gather ’round people
    Wherever you roam
    And admit that the waters
    Around you have grown
    And accept it that soon
    You’ll be drenched to the bone
    If your time to you
    Is worth savin’
    Then you better start swimmin’
    Or you’ll sink like a stone
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Come writers and critics
    Who prophesize with your pen
    And keep your eyes wide
    The chance won’t come again
    And don’t speak too soon
    For the wheel’s still in spin
    And there’s no tellin’ who
    That it’s namin’
    For the loser now
    Will be later to win
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don’t stand in the doorway
    Don’t block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There’s a battle outside
    And it is ragin’
    It’ll soon shake your windows
    And rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    Come mothers and fathers
    Throughout the land
    And don’t criticize
    What you can’t understand
    Your sons and your daughters
    Are beyond your command
    Your old road is
    Rapidly agin’
    Please get out of the new one
    If you can’t lend your hand
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    The line it is drawn
    The curse it is cast
    The slow one now
    Will later be fast
    As the present now
    Will later be past
    The order is
    Rapidly fadin’
    And the first one now
    Will later be last
    For the times they are a-changin’.

    The dust won’t settle, until the fat lady sings. 🙂

  317. One_Scot says:

    What country in the world would genuinely believe Scotland voting ‘No’ to IndyRef2.

  318. heedtracker says:

    Never mind Scotrail, although train driver monkey’s sounds great fun, check out bettertogether red and blue toryboy’s of the Scotland region, all demanding Nic Sturgeon hikes their taxes over the English. Nothing’s actually preventing toryboys like Kevrage actually paying more tax now.

    Kevin Hague Retweeted
    Martin McCluskey ?@martinmccluskey 11h11 hours ago
    It seems the Scottish Government only want “marginal” change on tax to right wing Tories. Stronger for Scotland?
    Scott Arthur

  319. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Still haven’t seen any of the highlights from NS’s speech, but some will remember another politician speaking about ‘love’, and managing to do so in a way which wasn’t toe-curling.

    It was Tommy Sheridan, speaking to Lesley Riddoch on her afternoon RS show, sometime in late 2002. I don’t suppose there’s any way of accessing such material so many years later, but it was Sheridan at his very best – personal, quiet and sincere.

    No matter what anyone thinks of him, Sheridan’s departure from the ‘big’ stage left an awfy big gap in Scottish political discourse. The FM seems to have claimed it now – genuine Scottish Labour supporters should acknowledge as much, and abandon the thrawn Dugdale.

  320. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood Don’t count yer chickens in the yoke, its teflon Tommy yer talkin aboot lol.

  321. Proud Cybernat says:


    SKY News tonight with Fiasal Islam interviewing SNP conference delegates. Lassie being interviewed proudly sporting a wee BBC MISREPORTING SCOTLAND stickie!!!!

    Well done that lass!!!

    Mind you – no so happy. Sprayed half my whisky over the lving room when I saw it. Hee hee. 🙂

    It’s out there people. The BBC have a credibility fight on their hands.

  322. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Luigi.

    For you…

  323. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Proud Cybernat I was given some Bbc stickers people were putting them on Jock Scott was in proximity to Sarah Smith but hadn’t any stickers left (ah pat in the back leaves a impression lol).

  324. K1 says:

    Nice one Proud Cybernat… 🙂 Well done!

  325. Bob Mack says:

    The dilemma and confusion facing journalists like Euan Mccolm in the Scotsmen is exemplified in his article. Nicola Sturgeon he says is spinning the hard Brexit line to cause grievance and for political gain.

    Further down his article he acknowledges it is probably going to be a hard Brexit and quotes Donald Tusk as reference. Funny isn’t it,?
    When Nicola says something it is bad and a lie even though you admit the same thing yourself.

    How angry and confused must they be? The Rev should have a look at it.

  326. Breeks says:

    Sinky @ 10:33

    Borders railway is a great success… moving business away from the bus companies.

    Perhaps if the money had been invested in decent road networks there might have been a net gain for the Borders, not just the robbing of Peter to pay Paul.

    Scottish Government is blind, deaf, and dumb to that of course, just like looks the other way about the rampant corruption in SBC.

  327. Proud Cybernat says:

    Dear (former) No Voter,

    For us on the YES side it is all about the ‘I’ word – that’s ‘I’ for ‘Inclusion’. Now go and get yourself a big box of mansize Kleenex and FFS watch and learn just how a country’s leader SHOULD lead her people:

    And then vote YES2.

  328. Still Positive. says:

    Marvellous conference speech from Nicola. Reduced me to tears on several occasions. This is the Scotland we want. And I hope others do too.

  329. Glesca Keelie says:

    Further to my post at 11.15 last night.
    Glesca Keelie says:
    14 October, 2016 at 11:15 pm

    “A bit O/T here.

    I have just watched Nicola being “interviewed” by Peter Wood ? is it, for ITV news. Very aggresive. The economy, 14.5 billion deficit. Followed by STV with the same line. Are we the only country in Europe which canny pay it’s way.

    Was there any attempt to break this down, say, well, defence we don’t need, interest payments for the UK we didnay incur. If we’re doing so badly it’s within this union. Naw, all deflection, I’m getting sick of these performances. Imagine Tommy Sheridan in that situation. When is the fightback going to start. It was the same before our Ref.

    Are we going for the sympathy vote, maybe.

    We should announce something May disnae like and tell her to get lost, or try and dae somethin about it.

    I tell you, I’m pissed off, really pissed off. What is the SNP policy, and I’m a long term member. Did I say I was pissed off.”

    I lay in bed all night last night thinking about this, turning it over in my mind.

    When the interviewer said Scotland was £14.5 or .8 billion in the red, Nicola’s response was, quote, “but all countries run a deficit”. He then went on, “but that’s 8.8% of the budget, worse than Greece. Nicola said “that’s an insult to Scotland”. Interviewer responds “I’m Scottish.” He appeared to be personally hurt linking Scotland to himself.

    But the point I want to make is that when she said “all countries run a deficit” she was accepting the figure he stated, £14.8 billion, was correct, and was a fact.

    She did NOT refute it. This went out on the UK national news. 10.00pm. Viewers watching would accept it, since the First Minister did not correct it, or protest it.

    Maybe it is correct, notwithstanding Ken 500s excellent posts. Although I wish he would use longer joined-up sentences. Nae offense, yae understand, Ken. Ken.

  330. Hector says:

    This afternoons broadcast of SNP Conference could not have been more different from Tory and Labour Conferences. Our Scottish political values of social justice and emotional intelligence were well in evidence today and highlighted just how different Scotland’s political leadership is from that of the rUK. From Aamar Anwar’s beautiful message and acknowledgement of our Scottish Government’s efforts to support and facilitate the Chokar family’s quest for justice for their son. Then Nicola’s support, recognition and solidarity with our Looked After Children made me feel so proud of our Scottish values, our political leadership and put into sharp perspective what values an independant Scotland would champion and what it really means in practice.

    I was particularly moved by our Looked After Young People, and none more so than when they waved their hearts at Nicola, and my heart went out to them. Nicola clearly understood what they were saying to her, they were sending her their love, and telling her that they trust her with their hearts. Nicola, we all trust you with our hearts, and we support you because we are all beating in unison. Stay strong, we are right behind you!!

  331. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Proud Cybernat –


    Made-up for ye mister, ye should’ve taken a selfie right there and then – must’ve looked like the cat who got the proverbial.

    Heaven only knows where those stickers will appear next…

    @Ronnie Anderson –

    I keep seeing photies of you, or someone very much like you, on The Twitter. Always in the background right enough, being the shy retiring type you are…


  332. Liz g says:

    Still Positive @ 12.09

    Glad to hear it wasn’t just me.
    I found that speech quite inspirational.

  333. Capella says:

    It was a very emotional day at Conference. The Chokar family story was very sad but touching and their solicitor Aamer Anwar made a great speech.

    The Fraternal Address from Bethan Jenkins of Plaid Cymru was also excellent. I hope that is made available online. Well worth hearing. Bethan is a star.

    Then Nicola’s speech was spot on. How lucky we are to have such a genuine and clear sighted politician steering the Scottish Government. She is head and shoulders above the opposition.

    It does inspire me with hope for the future.

  334. Capella says:

    tweet with a link to the Bethan Jenkins speech but maybe you have to sift through the whole morning. It’s an iPlayer link so I haven’t watched it not having a licence.

  335. K1 says:

    Nicola Sturgeon is one clear sighted compassionate human being…ye could literally see it shinning through even watching on the screen at home. As I said above and others have mentioned to bring love right into the heart of our political discourse takes a rare, insightful and actually very courageous politician.

    It’s this that signifies her as a world leader. As far as I’m concerned Nicola Sturgeon transcended the narrative of divisive politics today and firmly placed our country as a place where humanity and kindness will flourish and it’s that message we have to take into our dealings with everyone we meet in our communities and on our streets.

    I cried listening to her today…that’s someone touching yer heart…right there.

  336. Bean an Tighe says:

    Tinto Chiel at 10:10 – ” Did Sansom have a nasty Scottish nanny or something? There’s a real edge to his havers.”
    My mum did use to wonder if he’d been dumped by a Scottish girl in his youth!

  337. Big Phil says:

    Read through all the above and im heartened that there are people with an outlook for an equal Scotland, im also SO glad that my wee lassie Nicola spoke from her heart, i say My wee Nicola for a reason ,she is MY and your wee shining light, just wish i got her phone number. Best leader ever and ill always follow her,seize the day. 😉

  338. Petra says:

    Just coming on here at the coo’s tail as usual. Spent some time rushing through the posts on here, all brilliant, and trying to get through Nicola’s speech too.

    Some posts really stand out, imo:

    @ mr thms says at 10:40 am …. ”I came across this today.”

    Thanks thms. One for my archive. It just makes you wonder how much has actually been ‘robbed’ from Scotland over time and of course continues to be. When will it all end? 2018 of course!


    @ G H Graham says at 9:41 am …. ”Three fundamental economic reasons to get us out of Broken Britain” ….

    Some GREAT data / facts there GHG. Time for us to stop trying to defend OUR so-called dire economic situation and move into ATTACK mode (as the SNP should be doing). Highlight that the UK is practically bankrupt now. Push the interest rate up and the UK is going right down the swanny. Additionally will Carney bail out some time soon, as he must be totally scunnered with the Westminster nincompoops? He’d be made very welcome in an exclusive Scotland.


    @ Bob Mack says at 12:32 pm …. ”There is one very interesting name on the Advisory Board of this Scotland in Union group. That name is Sir Alistair Irwin, who is now retired. He was the officer commanding all troops in Northern Ireland prior to retiring. He now is involved in veterans. At one time he also commanded The Black Watch. Why would they want him on their advisory board?”

    One of the MOST enlightening posts of the day, imo.

    Two key words ‘Northern Ireland.’ Big OO country. Who did he flounce about with? Who’s he still in contact with? More than anything what are they up to? Take a guess.

    I know most folks on here aren’t into astrology but if you could see our Scottish chart you’d be truly horrified. There’s a vast network of ‘enemies’ out there and this is just ONE VERY small part of it.


    @ Glesca Keelie says at 12:24 am …. ”I have just watched Nicola being “interviewed” by Peter Wood? Is it for ITV news. Very aggresive. The economy, 14.5 billion deficit. Followed by STV with the same line. Are we the only country in Europe which canny pay it’s way. Was there any attempt to break this down, say, well, defence we don’t need, interest payments for the UK we didnay incur. If we’re doing so badly it’s within this union…..

    I (Glesca Keelie) lay in bed all night last night thinking about this, turning it over in my mind. When the interviewer said Scotland was £14.5 or .8 billion in the red, Nicola’s response was, quote, “but all countries run a deficit”. He then went on, “but that’s 8.8% of the budget, worse than Greece. Nicola said “that’s an insult to Scotland”. Interviewer responds “I’m Scottish.” He appeared to be personally hurt linking Scotland to himself. But the point I want to make is that when she said “all countries run a deficit” she was accepting the figure he stated, £14.8 billion, was correct, and was a fact. She did NOT refute it. This went out on the UK national news. 10.00pm. Viewers watching would accept it, since the First Minister did not correct it, or protest it. Maybe it is correct, notwithstanding Ken 500s excellent posts.”

    I saw it too GK and I’m as fed up as you. Believe me. I’m fighting the bit out THERE, like most others on here, trying to convince people that we CAN pay our way. High time the SNP got their act together and started making some attempt to CONVINCE others too …. by producing facts / statistics in relation to the economy. It’s got to the point that I’m wondering if I’m living in cloud bl**dy cuckoo land. Wondering if we CAN pay our way? If I’m thinking like this what are No voters thinking? So totally agree with you Glesca Keelie.

    ”I’m (Glesca Keelie) getting sick of these performances. Imagine Tommy Sheridan in that situation. When is the fightback going to start. It was the same before our Ref.”

    People (some) can say all they like on here. Tommy Sheridan was one of the MOST effective proponents of Independence EVER, imo. Sad, so sad to say that he’s being side-lined now. Sent to bl**dy Coventry. Great idea. NOT. Fits well with Scotland always shooting itself in the foot.


    Watched Nicola’s last speech at the Conference, online. Brilliant of course. Didn’t see her having to check notes once. What a leader. Puts the rest to shame. Cried my eyes out listening to / watching the kids in care (hearts raised) speech. Had a couple of quibbles with it all and that was no mention of pensioners (Brown lying for example) and her references to Assad / Russia without mentioning that Westminster, in the main, has created the whole debacle overall. I don’t get it. That would have been a real eye-opener (if you have no idea). Real game changer, that is pushing the ‘numbers’ up.

    Anyway off to bed now …. shattered. Keep up the good works folks.

  339. yesindyref2 says:

    Just watching my recorded BBC2 coverage, haven’t got to Sturgeon’s speech yet though her interview with Brian Taylor was perfect, and Angus’s speech was deadly, but there was a new star for me being interviewed by Brian Taylor in the hall. I never really rated him in his time as Education Minister, while full appreciating the difficulty of CfE, but Michael Russell – what an interview he gave!

    Anyone who was at the conference, get a hold of it and listen, he was absolutely spot on – this is his time, and he’s doing the right job.

  340. Petra says:

    @ K1 says at 1:11 am

    Nicola Sturgeon is one clear sighted compassionate human being…ye could literally see it shinning through even watching on the screen at home. As I said above and others have mentioned to bring love right into the heart of our political discourse takes a rare, insightful and actually very courageous politician. It’s this that signifies her as a world leader.” ….

    Just heading off to bed when I read this. I totally agree with you K1. Nicola Sturgeon is MOST definately a WORLD LEADER, NO doubt about that. More than likely the VERY BEST leader in the World now. Most leaders in the Western or civilised world are millionaires / billionaires. Money talks (Clinton and Trump, Bullingdon boys eg). Say no more. End of.

    Not here in Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon who grew up in a council house (not a millionaire – far fom it) transcends / eclipses EVERY last one of them due to her high level of intelligence but more than anything her compassion and empathy for the vulnerable and poor. Once again relating to astrology if you could see and understand her chart you would all be totally gobsmacked. She’s the karmic link between Scotland’s past to it’s future. Born to be OUR leader. Make her mark on the World in fact.

  341. Macart says:


    Good solid performances from all concerned Dads. More importantly a consistent message from all concerned.

    Excellent speech from the FM as a cherry on top. One I think you’ll enjoy as she stressed reaching out,(the hows and the whys), to those who voted NO/leave. The offer of the halfway house as a minimum was right out there for the PM to pickup and run with or discard and puts the responsibility of the immediate future of the union squarely in the PMs court.

    Westminster’s record of meeting Scotland halfway on anything being what it is though…

    I’ll say no more till you’ve seen it for yourself. What I will say is that its been a long time since this cynic has had a tear of pride in his eye.

  342. yesindyref2 says:

    Must admit I did have to twitch a bit, grimace, waggle the nose for one long stage.

    Sitting outside myself as it were, with a cynical look at the performance, I can’t see anyone think the whole thing wasn’t genuine though. Great speech.

    Curtice at his worst ever after it. Then at the end Brian Taylor talking to the two journalists and apart from the comment about EU 15%, UK 64% which is something that will have to be addressed, I don’t think they could really find anything to criticise.

    You have to compare that with its positive vision, with May.

  343. Luigi says:

    Well, I have to say that Nicola surprised me yet again, with that wonderful speech. An inclusive, caring society with love and respect for fellow human beings at the centre of it. Who could fail to be moved, to be inspired by that (those that refused to listen, I suppose)? The amazing Alex Salmond took us to the start of the summit, but this wonderful lady will take us over the final hurdle. She comes over as a genuine, caring person and yet also strong and capable and a true leader. A stateswoman. Very difficult to pin anything negative on her. No wonder the yoons hate her.

    I am glad that she has such strong support in the party and the country at large. Many of us would jump in to defend her which is good because some of the online abuse she gets is appalling. For such a nice person to be insulted daily is disgusting, but she is strong enough to deal with it. I guess she accepts that it goes with the job.

    We have had two world class politicians in succession. No wonder the yoons are spluttering and raging. It makes them look bad. Very bad. 🙂

  344. Another Union Dividend says:

    Impartial Sky public school boy journo Adam Boulton married to Tony Blair’s spin doctor Anji Hunter shows his stops here

  345. Struan says:

    @ Luigi

    I couldn’t agree more the snp are stunning the rest of the world as a vast collection of revolutionaries & brilliant thinkers.

    No political party has moved me in the way the snp has. The likes of Angus Robertson I mean the tallent on offer is overwhelming they are vastly beyond anything in the western world.

    And I’m proud to be a member of the future.

  346. louis.b.argyll says:


  347. Artyhetty says:

    Re;big phil@1.58am
    You say you are glad that people commenting on WoS have, ‘an outlook for an equal Scotland’, It’s how things should be big phil. It is how things could be, if Scotland was independent. It could be, and will be, much more equal, not a utopia, but a modern, forward looking country.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not ‘wee’. She is not a god either, to be worshipped. She is a very excellent intelligent person and politician, who has a conscience, and who is passionate about Scotland’s progress in the world.

    After 300+ years of destructive, demeaning, WM rule, Scotland will not change overnight, but the SNP have made great strides in their work towards improving lives, for all in Scotland.

    One last thing, it is a weird comment you make about wanting her phone number, and not appropriate to this site, or any discussion on this site. Do grow up.

  348. galamcennalath says:

    Returning to the main topic of SiU. I think what is most worrying about this group is how astonishly unrepresentative they are of the Scotland 99.99% of us know. Powerful, wealthy, and elitist sums SiU up.

    Are they the next BetterTogether? I suspect they will adopt the same strategy as they did in the EU ref (same type of people, really). They will have multiple groups, although one will have to be appoint official.

    Their problem is going to be lack of people to front their campaign(s). In the EU ref different campaign groups took different approaches and this included not actually having up front spokespeople. They focused more on propaganda than on people.

    This SiU group does and will not have anyone who is presentable in debate. I suspect therefore their role will be to use their wealth on nasty propaganda campaigns.

  349. galamcennalath says:

    Watching Marr because Nicola will be on later.

    Paper review by Toby Young and Lucy Thomas. They discussed briefly the ‘side show’ of Scotland.

    Young says (I paraphrase), Nicola’s threats aren’t credible because Spain would block EU membership, there wouldn’t be the broad shoulders of England to pay Scotland’s massive bills, and the polls show support for Indy is down since 2014.

    I do wish they would only interview people with some understanding of politics and who keep up with events!

  350. gus1940 says:

    After yesterday’s disgusting Daily Heil column from Leo McKinstry we’ve just had Toby Young on the Marr prog. spouting another pack of lies.

    Nicola to come later so I hope she manages to do something to put the record straight.

    The signs of desperation in the unionist camp grow stronger by the day.

  351. gus1940 says:

    If Toby Young is still there when Nicola is interviewed I hope she asks the eternally unanswered question ‘If Scotland is such a begging financial basket case why are WM so desperate to hang on to us?’

  352. Macart says:


    Mornin’ Nana. 🙂

    Fair spread of good links there.


    Ayup, Curtice was a bit out there yesterday. I said a while back, in a post on WGD I think, they wouldn’t be able to predict our new FMs strategy. And listening to Curtice yesterday and the metro’gnomes’ (no, not a spelling error) on Marr’s pundit couch this morning, that appears to be the case. Some Toby fella, an especially dim empathy free zone seems especially obnoxious and clueless (shrugs). Long may they continue to think along his lines in metroland. They’ll never see it coming till it hits them. 🙂

  353. Ghillie says:

    Proud Cybernat @ 12.07am

    Thank you so much for the link to Nicola’s speech.

    And what a brilliant speech that was = )

    Nicola Sturgeon stands head and shoulders over any other world leader I can think of! And such a lovely person too = )

    The SNP are delivering! They have kept their tinder dry. Rope has been given and Westminster is duly hanging itself.

    And this Conference has sent volley after volley to hit those who would hold Scotland back fully broadside = )

    I am so proud of all of Scotland, from our youngest to our oldest = )

  354. louis.b.argyll says:

    The Baroness, on BBC Marr, has said absolutely nothing.
    Why bother interviewing Tories?.. they don’t have a clue.

  355. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

    Maybe O/T, but anyone else picking up on SIU Yoon style monstering going on on Twitter at the moment?

    Quite an onslaught on the Rev and his “acolytes” led by one Mr Lovatt essentially calling the Rev innumerate and fact free (Mr Gold’s “good cop” intervention on Mr Lovatt’s behalf suggesting/asserting Stu does not deal in them and that one should seek them elsewhere – the Brit MSM? Ha ha if they were not so full on serious).

    Quite a stooshie boiling down to the percentage numbers Mr Lovatt posited and the Rev challenged.

    In a snit, Mr Lovatt asserts he is FCA accredited and trained in economics and asserts – consequently – a “fuck off troll” message variation in support of his position re the numbers/percentages with Mr Gold gently intervening to support him.

    Anyone ken these two?

    Thank you.

  356. Robert Peffers says:

    @Breeks says: 16 October, 2016 at 12:06 am:

    “Borders railway is a great success… moving business away from the bus companies.”

    Now, Breeks, correct me if I’m wrong, but are not the Borders local council responsible for most of the road network throughout their own area?

    The Scottish Government are only concerned with trunk roads such as the M74 and the other main arteries such as the A7, A68. et al. Now that M74 has had a lot of continuous funding through the years.

  357. Ken500 says:

    Always use short concise sentences. So as not to confuse. Never me, me,me, l, l, l,. Learnt through education. That is what is advised. Keep to the facts. The facts are in the in the accounts. Education + experience + business. There must be something, possibly the Privy Council rules or UK Parliamentry rules that prevent the total disclosure of Accounts. No public discussion. A Code of Conduct or ‘what ever’. There is a Parliamentry code which has to be followed. The SNP govern for the whole of Scotland, which did unfortunately vote NO. In Westminster MP’s can say what they like and can’t get sued etc. ‘Parliamentary Priviledge’. They can tell lies and not be held to account. They frequently do.

    Just google Scottish Gov Accounts, UK Gov accounts. The figures are there. Just go through the pages. £515Billion raised in taxes UK. £54Billion raised in Scotland. Add in all the rest of the . Information. It is a obvious Scotland would be in surplus. Without Westminster rule. Just look at Norway or any other of the most prosperous nations. They are all smaller and more prosperous with less resources than Scotland. In or out of the EU. Norway, Sweden, Switzerland,Netherlands, Dennark etc. Even Germany (pro rata) economy is similar to Scotland.

    The illegal wars, the banking fraud, the tax evasion. Westminster rule has been a disaster for the UK but especially for Scotland. Completely and utterly. The misuse of the Oil resources etc. The monies spent illegally invading the Middle East make up the UK Deficit. Thatcher/Regan, Brown/Clinton deregulated banking causing a world banking crash. Brexit has cost £Billions already and will cost even more as the £ devalues further. The claim that the UK is the fifth largest economy, That is debatable, ‘By size ie population numbers’. Add in the debt it is 16th. The deficit is going down but the debt is reported to be going up. The UK Is the most unequal, unfair place in the world. Since Thatcher. The graphs show the decline. Since 1979. Nearly 20 years of Thatcher. Now they are back. The same crew, To ruin the world economy,

    Thatcher left over 3million unemployed (smaller pop base) and interest rates at 15% If Scotland doesn’t vote to leave the UK. It will be even worse. Scotland did not vote for any of this, ever. Not banking deregulation, utilities sold off, the misuse of the Oil revenues, Thatcherism, illegal wars, banking fraud, tax evasion. The Tories/Westminster are ruining the world economy. Westminster/Unionists support absolute despot monarchies and apartheid States, in the Middle East, whose policies would never be tolerated in the UK, US or France.

    The UK/US and France carved up the Middle East. France in Syria/Algeria, the UK in Iraq/Iran. US oil interests. The state of the Middle East is as a result of their interference. Taking the resources. Illegal wars. The migrant crisis was caused by the UK, US and France illegally bombing the Middle East. They want to walk away from the crisis, without any responsibility, If all the EU countries took a quota of refugees that would help find a solution, 2 million in 500million. Would be negligible.

    The Tories are wasting £Billion in Hinkley Nuclear Station, HS2, Trident. They are not funding the NHS and Education properly. Sanctioning vulnerable people. It is reported the Welfare bill in England – with all the cuts – has gone up. The cuts/austerity have resulted in more money having to be spent.

    Osborne tried to destroy the Oil industry with high taxes when the price had fallen. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. Just a disgrace. Untaxed fracked Gas from the US is now being imported. Putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt.

    Thank goodness for the SNP Gov in Scotland. What would be the state of Scotland without them. It is bad enough with the Tories in Westminster. The Councils are not spending the total money allocated on social care, education and nursery places. Class sizes are going up etc. They are building non mandated grotesque projects the majority do not want and wasting £Millions/Billions of public money. Getting into debt. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. Vote SNP/SNP in May 2017.

    In April 2017 the Scottish Gov can stop sanctioning vulnerable people. Policies which can help save money i.e. Social care, bus passes, nursery care, student loans. Investing in jobs, renewables, roads, railways, bridges, hospitals and schools, That is all being done. Vote for self governance/Independence. Scotland would be in surplus without Westminster’s interference.

  358. louis.b.argyll says:

    ‘securing Britain’s place in the world..?’

    Er. Britain STILL has a bully-boy reputation, irresponsibly causing half the wars we now see. We gifted former colonies with a corruptable system of slavery, bigotry and elitist merchant government.

    Which version of world history is taught in England’s private schools? Oh yes, it starts at Henry VIII jumps to Queen Vic and India and ends in 1945. A look at the utterly introverted endlessly taught literary pish on University Challenge, let’s you see the brick wall conservatism that progress must fight.

    England is frozen solid.
    SHIT scared of change.
    Brexit is a return to the past. They like the past, they used to win the wars..

  359. heedtracker says:

    Fluffie Mundell on BBC Daily Politics in an hour. If Fluffie’s as shaky as he was on BBC r4 Question Time in Glasgow last week, its should be a UKOK hoot. Fluffie said something like it was YES 2014 that was lying about Scots EU membership and all that BetterTogether was that EU membership was going to be guaranteed if we voted NO, or something.

    The Ligger will gently fluff Fluffie though. That’s a metaphor that should put you off your full English breakfast, or maybe not:D

  360. heedtracker says:

    Ken500 says:
    16 October, 2016 at 9:56 am
    Always use short concise sentences.

    Or, “staccato”, is the literary term.

    Keep it coming!

  361. Hamish100 says:

    May, Fox Johnston and Co will not agree to a light brexit for Scotland. Exercising no democratic mandate in Scotland they will never allow manufacturing from NE England such as cars moving into Scotland or financial institutions to Edinburgh in particular.

    So prepare for Indy ref2.

  362. Bob Mack says:

    I see the MSM assault on independence gaining momentum. Robert Penton on his Channel 4 programme pronounces that support for indy in Scotland is only 38%.
    Couple this with the above comments on Marr

  363. Robert Peffers says:

    @Capella says: 16 October, 2016 at 12:44 am:

    “It was a very emotional day at Conference. The Chokar family story was very sad but touching and their solicitor Aamer Anwar made a great speech.”

    What sticks out like the proverbial, “Sair thumb”, Capella, is the stark difference when comparing the SG line with that of the Westminster Establishment cabal.

    The not made prominent and tucked away in the wee sma print in neglected corners of the MSM news are the many cases of family members being refused entry into the United Kingdom in order to donate kidneys, bone marrow and such like :-

    and this week it is:-

    There are many, many more such cases and the person in charge of the Home office responsible for that policy is none other than the present hard hearted, utterly despicable Theresa May OM of the equally despicable, United Kingdom government.

    Long past time we Scots ended this despicable United Kingdom. And make no mistake when we do we are NOT leaving behind a remaining United Kingdom for you cannot have a united kingdom of only one partner kingdom of the United Kingdom and that remainder is the three country Kingdom of England as neither Wales not Ireland were signatories to the Treaty of Union.

  364. heedtracker says:

    So prepare for Indy ref2.

    Never stopped.

    Rancid The Graun. You could knock me down with a feather, a British feather. Wonder why this dude pumped a lot of money into Farage and BojO’s campaign?

    “Offshore secrets of Brexit backer Arron Banks revealed in Panama Papers

    Financier who spent £7.5m funding Nigel Farage’s Leave.EU campaign linked to tax haven companies in British Virgin Islands and Gibraltar”

    Financier’s a great word. Why not just rich tax dodger.

  365. gordoz says:

    BBC Misreporting on Scotland

    Never new that the YES vote was actually going backwards and less now than 2014 vote.

    Toby Young letting it rip on Marr show – absolutely not countered by Marr – very poor (or planned ?). A bit like the Gorilla hoot
    Oh how we laughed at that up here in Scotland. Totally not planned, watch out for Mrs May – PM’s caption being mistaken for a hyena or some other creature. It got to happen soon just for a laugh eh ?

    Nothing changes.

  366. Nana says:

    @Macart Good morning.

    Here’s another link. Written by one of the lads from who cares? Scotland.

  367. heedtracker says:

    Financier, tax dodger, crook, international businessman etc. Banks is a great name too, Banks abroad more like.

    An email sent to Mossack Fonseca includes a flowchart that sets out how Banks’s complex corporate interests fit together. Banks is at the top.

    An arrow points down to PRI Holdings, which is described as a “holding company for international contracts”. Other arrows go down again to four further firms: Precision Risk & Intelligence Ltd (“security and intelligence”), African Strategic Capital Ltd (“wealth management”), African Strategic Consulting Ltd (“lobbying”) and African Strategic Resources Ltd (“mining rights”). All appear to belong to Banks.

    A recent profile of Banks in the New Statesman put his fortune at more than £100m. His business interests include insurance and a bank in the Isle of Man, another low-tax financial centre and UK crown dependency. He also has five diamond mines.

    Wigmore said that Banks is a UK resident who pays UK tax. His latest cheque to the Inland Revenue came to £1.8m, Wigmore said, adding that PRI was an “international company” with “international clients”. It had “nothing to do with Brexit”. He added: “Arron has business interests all over the world. It’s not unusual to be mentioned in the Panama Papers.

    He’s an international businessman.”

  368. heedtracker says:

    Dr NO! will see you now. He’s not a Doctor. But he is a tory.

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 2h2 hours ago Edinburgh, Scotland
    Scott Arthur Retweeted The Daily Record
    The SNP used to call Labour “Tories”. Too many have moved on to labelling the Tories Nazis. History lesson needed.Scott Arthur added,

    The Daily Record @Daily_Record
    Australian who won battle to stay in Scotland hits out at Tories by wearing yellow ‘foreigner’ badge…
    0 replies

  369. louis.b.argyll says:

    Heedtracker, Ken, but I like rambling, commas, always good, and paragraphs..and sentences that stop (add comma) suddenly.

    Having to rescan a sentence often helps infer new reason.

  370. yesindyref2 says:

    That CBI link – Hugh Aitken, CBI Scotland Director – so much different from what we’d have heard from Iain McMillan, the previous CBI “Scotland” Director, and British knight. That would have been – knight takes pawn, check please, Scotland’s paying.

  371. galamcennalath says:

    Hamish100 says:

    “May, Fox Johnston and Co will not agree to a light brexit for Scotland.”

    Yes indeed. No way will the Tories go to the EU negotiations with two plans, one for Scotland, one for rUK. If it’s hard Brexit then IndyRef follows as sure as day after night.

    Scotland will continue to be treated like shite on their shoes until we exit the UK.

    I keep wondering if the hard right Brexiteers will collapse in a constitutional crisis, though. Legal challenges, Westminster itself, changing public opinion as the economy is further damaged, and their Union about to end, they could still come unstuck probably necessitating a general election. Brexit has to pass a lot of UK hurdles before it gets near the EU!

    Then there is the EU. There are only two possible forms of Brexit IMO. Firstly there is the Brexit deal the EU offer as almost take it or leave it (I suspect inside the single market with all that means), or secondly, the UK walks away with no deal (exit hard as nails and disasterous).

  372. heedtracker says:

    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIt’s Fluffie Time!

    Cant be arsed watching it though:-(

  373. Grouse Beater says:


    The ratchet of integration clicks remorselessly forward”, says Boris of … England’s grip on Scotland’s self-determination?

    Erm, no.

    Of the EU over England.

    Your weekend reading:

    A Dogs Brexit:
    About a fat kid:

  374. Bob Mack says:

    There are some days when I feel I am out of step with the world. Today is such a day.

    I tune in to television and hear debates on immigration that take me back 50 years.
    I remember when folk from the West Indies were encouraged to come here to fill jobs nobody wanted. Within years they had become problematic for the Establishment and featured in Enoch Powell “Rivers of Blood” speech. They were openly made fun of on the television with “Gems” like Love Thy Neighbour.

    Next it was the turn of Pakistani /Indian immigrants who according to urban legend lived 20 to a house and set up exclusive communities.

    Now we are on Europeans. Some things never change.

    I listened to a very brave Nicola yesterday extending the hand of welcome to all and I felt gladdened for the first time in a long time. She is a compassionate human being at least and a damn fine politician at best, with vision and clarity of thought.

    The people who attack our dream of independence are a weird mixture of sorts.
    They inhabit a land of fear, prejudice, duty ,servitude, and unflinching obedience to a State that neither cares nor considers them until a call to arms sounds , compelling them to serve and die for a Nation who frankly does not give a damn for them otherwise.

    Nicola offers an alternative. Mutual ,inclusive ,welcoming. Opportunity for everyone.

    I know which I prefer.. We must give our all and then some to make it happen. It is worth it.

  375. heedtracker says:

    Andrew Neil is joined by secretary of state for Scotland David Mundell MP and Conservative MPs Adam Afriyie and Kwasi Kwarteng. Panellists include Julia Hartley-Brewer, Tom Newton Dunn and Steve Richards.

    Every single one of them, hard core English tories. Balance? fcuk balance. Ligger’s gone mad with BBC toryboy power. Wonder if Hartley-Brewer knows our future Baron Gordon Brewer OBE?

  376. yesindyref2 says:

    It’s IN their faces, nothing devious in the way Sturgeon & Co are doing things, but they prefer to think she’s whingeing or bluffing. These Unionist commentators and agitators are complete buffoons, they swallow their own lines and believe them, hook line and total lack of thinker.

    Talking about thinkers it’s clear the SNP have a clearly defined strategy, and what encouraged me as well with the interviews with various delegates and politicians being interviewed by Brian Taylor, is that they’re all on the same wavelength. They know the score, are disciplined, very clued up, and stick to the point without going off on one.

    Talking of which some feedback about Angus after hustings was mine, which is that he came across as arrogant I said that to his face afterwards, or a better description, a sense of entitlement. I voted for him because I realised that he was right even if it was a sense of entitlement or arrogance, he too knew the score, knew the future route, and stuck to it without deviation, hesitation but much repitition!

    Whereas all of the other three who in normal times would have been ideal candidates and perhaps better than him, for various aspects of the SNP and Scotland, would have wandered off the straight path.

    These are not ordinary times, they’re extraordinary times, and Angus is quite extraordinary!

  377. Grouse Beater says:

    Heedtracker: “Financier’s a great word. Why not just rich tax dodger.”

    Why not rich tax dodger, indeed. Or perhaps, Empire loyalist.

  378. Ken500 says:

    Once the UK voted NO. Banks removed support for UKIP and funded Andrea Leadsom. Fararge is now trying to raise funds in the US. An UKIP associate has already been arrested in the US on fraud, money laundering charges. Why are multimillionaires so keen to get out of the EU? So they can continue to tax evade. The EU is clamping down on tax evasion. E.g. Google, Apple US multinationals etc. They pay little tax worldwide. An impediment to free, fair trade. An unfair advantage. Thatcher established tax havens. A third are under Westminster protection/jurisdiction.

    The US puts a high amount into research and development. They gain patents, create monopolies and then can charges what they like. They tax evade worldwide. US companies break US fair trade Laws. Microsoft was taken to Court in the US for breaking fair trade Laws. Fined.

  379. yesindyref2 says:

    Here’s another idea that’s been going around in my head over the conference time. It won’t be the SNP as a party that puts its weight behind YES2 to start with. It’ll be the Greens because and precisely because, they’re part of the opposition at Holyrood.

  380. sinky says:

    Alex Salmond in good form on Radio 5 at 10 am. Pointed out that GERS is not an esti
    mate of an Indy Scotland..that Scotland is England’s 4th largest export market…and how Iceland and Ireland are booming.

  381. Ken500 says:

    Nicola got a fairer hearing on Murnaghan Sky. With Brexit are they starting to listen?

    Brewer is going. Programme is finished. No viewers. No programmes.

    Andrew Neil is a lying Tory. An Alcoholic needs ‘total abstentiince’ rehab treatment. The constant absences. The nasty aggressive behaviours. The pallor. Needs to make amends and apologise.

  382. DerekM says:

    Grouse: Why not rich tax dodger, indeed. Or perhaps, Empire loyalist

    I much prefer the word criminals.

  383. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    It won’t be the SNP as a party that puts its weight behind YES2 to start with. It’ll be the Greens because and precisely because, they’re part of the opposition at Holyrood.

    Yes. As a party not in government it will be easier for them to get stuck in early.

    A good move for them as a party because if we win (appendages crossed), they will be a much bigger player in iScotland.

    A good thing for the wider campaign because the more freely moving voices we have, the better. IMO it is very important that messages like “you don’t have to support the SNP to support Indy” or “when you vote YES you aren’t voting for any party, you are voting for Scotland”, are pushed strongly.

  384. Big Jock says:

    The Yoons clutch at anything. Prof Curtis yesterday:” The SNP is not United on the E U, one in 3 Snp members voted out.” let’s do some arithmetic a 3Rd is 33.3% 2 of those is nearly 67% who voted to stay in Eu. I would say that’s pretty United and decisive. But what do I know.

  385. yesindyref2 says:

    @ken500 – @heed – louis.b.argyll
    I kind of like – dashes – I think it’s very dashing – !

    It’s what people – say – not the way they – say it.

  386. louis.b.argyll says:

    Indeed Ken, we’re leaving the EU because they want to see the books..all the books.

    And the accounts show?..

    How old and now new money buys
    How legalised elitism works AND who do we all actually work for.

  387. heedtracker says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    16 October, 2016 at 11:14 am
    Heedtracker: “Financier’s a great word. Why not just rich tax dodger.”

    Why not rich tax dodger, indeed. Or perhaps, Empire loyalist.

    He’s a fundamental example of why the UK’s rich want out of the EU, or rather got the UK out of the EU.

    Planet toryboy completely controls how England votes but they cant control how the EU votes. Its why Murdoch, tory BBC etc have all monstered the EU for decades. They cant influence Brussels and Europe like the do Westminster. And toryboy influence Murdoch style is going easy too. They own Westminster.

    BBC Question Time from Hendon this week had Leave voters vox pop explaining that Brexit meant the UK getting back sovereignty, law making and control of immigration.

    None of the vox poppers had a clue what any of that actually meant. You cant even say Brexit means getting control of immigration simply because you cant control immigration. If people want to come to the UK, they will.

  388. Legerwood says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    16 October, 2016 at 9:53 am
    @Breeks says: 16 October, 2016 at 12:06 am:

    “Borders railway is a great success… moving business away from the bus companies.”

    Now, Breeks, correct me if I’m wrong, but are not the Borders local council responsible for most of the road network throughout their own area?

    The Scottish Government are only concerned with trunk roads such as the M74 and the other main arteries such as the A7, A68. et al. Now that M74 has had a lot of continuous funding through the years.””

    The long distance buses may be affected by the Borders Railway but the local services much less so. In fact some may be getting more business for example, Melrose to Tweedbank via Borders General Hospital which is the final stop on the railway. The local services probably provide feeder services to the various stations.

  389. yesindyref2 says:

    There are signs it will go that way, I just hope the Greens go for it, as Harvie indicated. That of all things would totally unite YES2 again, make it all parties and none.

  390. louis.b.argyll says:


    Does that punctuation show which ‘aye’ I mean?

  391. Macart says:


    Thanks for the link Nana. 🙂


    Just been watching the two pundits on Murnahan discussing the FM. Y’know what a poor bargaing position she’s in with May. How delusional, lack of credible threat yada, yada….

    Bwahahahahahaha! 😀

    They’re not terribly bright are they? 🙂

    The way I see it, the FM is talking more pointedly and directly to the Scottish electorate. She’s done precisely as she promised with nothing hidden. She has attempted to keep Scotland in both unions and has put together a package of proposals to do same. These will be placed before May to accept, negotiate upon or…. discard. 😉

    This is about demonstrating to the electorate how THEIR wishes, THEIR vote, THEIR mandate is regarded by the Prime Minister and the Westminster parliament.

    The ball is now in Westminster’s court. How will they handle the requests of Scotland’s electorate d’you think? Hmmmm?

  392. Dan Huil says:

    britnat media in England really believe Nicola is bluffing and support for independence is falling. If they believe that then May does too. Good – keep it that way. britnat arrogance and ignorance is a useful weapon for us.

  393. Hamish100 says:

    So Mundell makes it “quite clear” on Politics Sunday, that Davidson during the Scottish Referendum stated that a No voted didn’t necessarily mean that SCOTLAND WOULD REMAIN IN THE EU!! We knew from Davidson that there would be a referendum
    So Davidson knew that the tories in a UK General Election would win. No coalition, No labour win.That a referndum would be called for and the right wing brexitters would win. All in the future mind.
    We were voting to stay in the Uk BUT NOT TO STAY IN THE EU.
    As Mundell parrot repetition phrase “I dont accept that..”
    What lies from the single Tory Governor General.Protect Scotland? He ignores Scotland 63% Remain vote and the Scottish elections mandate.
    Does smiley Davidson fresh from HIGNFY ? agree?

    o/t Strange that Davidson and Calman (on the news quiz) used the same “joke” of a man dressing up as batman attacking clowns!!
    Whats the chances of that!! Are they the same person?

    Does Davidson agree.

  394. galamcennalath says:

    Opinion piece by Macwhirter in the Herald. A pretty good summary of where we are and where we might be going.

  395. gus1940 says:

    When the Dead Tree Scrolls or any of their contributors lie to or mislead their readers they are supposed to correct matters in subsequent editions.

    Although these corrections seldom occur and are usually well hidden at least it is a step in the right direction.

    However, when it comes to broadcasters, in particular The BBC there is no obligation to correct untruths such as the nonsense spouted by Toby Young this morning and Brillo’s regular output.

    Is it too late to include a requirement to correct blatant untruths in the new BBC Charter?

  396. gus1940 says:

    As part of Scotland’s Campaign against Brexit would it not be an idea to campaign against deprivation of our EU Citizenship.

    An on-line petition for presentation to The EU Parliament might be a good idea.

  397. galamcennalath says:

    Dan Huil says:

    britnat media in England really believe Nicola is bluffing and support for independence is falling…. britnat arrogance and ignorance is a useful weapon for us.

    It is astonishing. The only way that they can rationalise the SNP’s warning over IndyRef2 is to think it is all bluff. Their belief in UKOK is so overwhelming that they simply cannot believe that to others, the UK is definitely not OK.

    You are very right. The longer they continue to take this view the better! An enemy floundering in confusion and ignorance will be easier to defeat. And to make matters even worse for them, they also can’t get over their own arrogant sense of entitlement.

    The perfect storm is brewing.

  398. K1 says:

    Petra, I could well believe her chart has some powerful aspects, would love to see it…especially the transits over the next year? 😉

  399. Lochside says:

    Someone posted earlier in the thread ( forgive me for not crediting you) a youtube clip by a filthy capitalist speculator called Jim Rogers. I suggest that you listen to this as it is a Radio 4 interview that is mindblowing in its absolutely clear and catastrophic message for ‘England’ from a hard nosed money grabber as to what will happen ‘if Scotland leaves the UK and takes its oil with it’.

    Who is Jim Roger apart from being a cold hearted capitalist pig?:
    James Beeland “Jim” Rogers, Jr. is an American businessman, investor, financial commentator and author. He is currently based in Singapore. Rogers is the Chairman of Rogers Holdings and Beeland Interests, Inc. He was the co-founder of the Quantum Fund and creator of the Rogers International Commodities Index. His co-founder was George Soros…Who He?

    George Soros is a Hungarian-American business magnate, investor, philanthropist, political activist, and author. He is chairman of Soros Fund Management. He is known as “The Man Who Broke the Bank of England” because of his short sale of US$10 billion worth of pounds, making him a profit of $1 billion during the 1992 Black Wednesday UK currency crisis. Soros is one of the 30 richest people in the world.

    So this is the ‘pedigree’ of Rogers. One of the top sharks coasting endlessly in the murky waters of the Global Capitalist market looking for ‘deals’.

    What is really significant about this broadcast, apart from its complete suppression by oor ain ‘media’ is the navel gazing response by the BBC guy. More so, is the fact that Rogers obviously implicitly knows that our oil reserves are significant enough to sink England’s economy by removal. This one piece of information should destroy the ‘oil running out ‘ narrative forever. Not because we all knew it any way, but because our leaders..the SNP seem congenitally incapable of trumpeting it from the rooftops.

    Just to pick up on Glesga Keelie and Petra’s points about misgivings about the SNP’s lack of fight. The latest ‘moves’ regarding support for another Heathrow runway and John Sswinney’s reported shite about using the uk pound really demoralises me.

    Nicola Sturgeon is a bonny fechter, but the party’s media and media responses are woeful. They were shocking at the last REF and they have not improved. The people of Scotland ( at least half anyway) are ready and willing and informed enough to take the leap of faith for Independence. The other 20% that want to vote ‘YES’ need reassurance and clear evidence: our own sustainable currency and central bank; our real deficit explained and the GERS RUBBISHED ONCE AND FOR ALL; and clear evidence i.e assurance from the EU of our legal right to remain in the EU if and when we assert our Independence. They also need clear and direct refutation of the all the other lies and distortions by the BBC. Even if it requires a party political; broadcast soley aimed at attacking the BBC.I’m sure G.A.Ponsonby and the REV can provide 5 mins of hard hitting evidence. Which reminds me of another factor…the SNP’s total lack of engagement with this site and REF2…Why?? And as for poor auld Tommy Sheridan…a great orator and flawed human being unlike the rest of us eh?

    By the way the Jim Roger video is on Youtube and is the World at One, BBC Radio 4 on 14/10/2016. Sorry, I cant link it.

  400. gordoz says:

    Love how the BBC Iplayer version of FM closing address cuts off the ending and applause / photos.

    Bet you get that with all the other leaders too.

    Aye right.

  401. heedtracker says:

    Bit of a red tory twitter to hootsman to twitter echo chamber but Dr NO! says Scottish democracy is like a panto. How UKOK clever is that hootsman tories.

    Its actually a neat summation of tory BBC led current vote NO anti Sturgeon spin. Early Project Fearing the life out of ref 2, worst economy in the west world, “hard border” at Berwick etc, but then say its Sturgeon who’s Project Fearing.

    Scott Arthur Retweeted
    Mick Watson ?@BioMickWatson 1h1 hour ago
    Mick Watson Retweeted Scott Arthur
    My Southern friends please read. Sturgeon is far from a competent politician, she’s nothing other than soundbites and grievanceMick Watson added,

    Scott Arthur @DrScottThinks
    My letter in the Scotsman today:
    0 replies

  402. Hamish100 says:

    gus 1940

    Good Idea.

    I am an EU citizen and Scots
    Je suis un citoyen de l’UE et les Écossais
    Tha mi an AE saoranach agus na h-Albannaich

    Apologies if I have misspelled. Is it scotch?

  403. heedtracker says:

    Also interesting watching a tory like Dr NO! and chums on twitter, Sturgeon v v bad for Project Fearing, but up pops Ian Murray MP, possibly last ever SLab Westminster ligger,

    Scott Arthur Retweeted
    Ian Murray ?@IanMurrayMP 37m37 minutes ago
    Ian Murray Retweeted Kevin Schofield
    EU jobs = 250,000; UK jobs = 1.25m. EU trade = £12bn a yr; UK £50bn a yr. £ v Euro. That’s why scots voted for both UK and EU.

    Ian Murray added,

    Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor
    Have the SNP worked out the impact on Scotland of leaving the UK single market? #r4today
    0 replies

    Sacred yet? Its best not to look at who Britnat Slab dudes hang out with on twitter though.

  404. Capella says:

    How is it that Scott Arthur – who appears to loathe the SNP – is currently the main source of video on the SNP Conference? Good service Dr NO.

    You can hear Bethan Jenkins, Plaid Cymru, Fraternal Address here. 1hr 28mins 30 secs in:

  405. Connor McEwen says:

    Lochside @12.52. Nice one, and George Soros is buying into Gold mining and gold methinks he knows there is a crash coming and banks to be bailed out again. SNP HQ should be told from Robin McAlpine and the SNP delegates that attended the IDEASPACE MEETING IN THE SCIENCE CENTRE IN GLASGOW . Including Positive Money’s ideas
    Wish I had money to spare, to buy gold and bail out of Tory Britain

  406. Glamaig says:

    he is using us to promote the negative titles of the videos.

  407. Hamish100 says:

    Government PR leaflet pre Scottish referendum- paid by us

    Independence would mean Scotland leaving the UK to form a new
    state; the rest of the UK would continue as before. An independent Scotland would have to apply to all international organisations it wished to join and establish its own domestic institutions
    ? An independent Scotland would need to apply to join international bodies, including the EU and work through thousands of international treaties. The continuing UK would retain its membership of organisations like the EU, the UN, NATO and the G8, and its treaty obligations.

    I think Mundell missed this in his reading list plus all the hours of radio and tv broadcasts. He blames Davidson.

  408. Liz g says:

    Gus @ 12.34
    Totally agree with you about the removal of EU citizenship.
    I have been a bit disappointed that it’s removal hasn’t been highlighted more.

    Like I am sure many others,I struggle to care what the market’s do and don’t like.

    But while I am sure it is important that business gets to stay in the single market,for me and mine it’s the removal of our citizenship ranking behind business interests as that really hacks me off.

    Try telling an American they are about to have their right to say “I’m an American citizen” removed.
    And imagine their reaction if the protection of that citizenship fell behind making sure business didn’t loose any of it’s rights.

    As I may have said before on here.
    Why does everyone else’s kid’s get to bing bong around Europe to live,laugh and love but ours get stuck on this Island competing with only each other.

    If I am to lose this citizenship what is the quid pro quo?
    What do I get ,how do I benift.

    So far all I have heard the compensation for the loss of my European citizenship is that my kids if their talents and abilities are not required for the use of the UK, that a gap has been created for them to do their bit working the fields.
    They will not have to chance their luck on the main land…
    Lucky us….

  409. cirsium says:

    @Nana, 8.23

    Thanks for the great link to the Washington Post’s article regarding renewable energy. I knew that Denmark is meeting its energy needs from renewables. It is encouraging that Scotland is on its way to doing this. The obstacle in our path is the UK government. Another reason why we need independence.

    Thanks for this educational post, Rev.

  410. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    16 October, 2016 at 1:16 pm
    How is it that Scott Arthur – who appears to loathe the SNP – is currently the main source of video on the SNP Conference? Good service Dr NO.

    He’s clearly got a lot of free time at Heriot Watt. Easy money. Although, my BetterTogether Slovene girlfriend at Glasgow has two jobs. Its a bit disorientating listening to yoon culture rage at the terrible Scots education we’ve all been subjected to, by academics of the terrible Scottish educationerising system, top academics, who have two jobs and spend all day tweeting ace vids about how terrible people like Nic Sturgeon and Mhairi Black really are.

  411. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Heedtracker

    Why do constantly ‘re-tweet’ bileous yoon tweets here? No offense but to be perfectly blunt–I am sick to my back teeth of seeing you publicising their pish here. What’s the point? Fair enough if some yoon is actually making a pertinent, cogent point (rare) but the tweets you constantly pick up and publish here are anything but cogent. We really don’t need to see the yoon pish here on WoS.

  412. heraldnomore says:

    I see the Tank Girl has another BBC slot this week, round the table of the Friday night bake-off review, with all the bunting and the laughs.

    Is there no end to her talents, or the length the BBC will go to showcase her to the darlings?

  413. Grouse Beater says:

    Breeks: “Borders railway is a great success… moving business away from the bus companies.”

    Legerwood: “Breeks, the Borders local council [is] responsible for most of the road network throughout their own area. The Scottish Government are only concerned with trunk roads, such as the M74.

    That’s correct, Legerwood. If it was otherwise unionists would scream Sturgeon doesn’t care about the dreadful state of ‘our’ inner city road surfaces.

  414. Glamaig says:


    I guess theyre getting her some celeb status on the tv asap, all jolly and smiling, ready to head up Better Together 2 quite soon.

  415. ben madigan says:

    @Liz and Gus – the removal of EU citizenship.

    In northern ireland, even hard-core Unionists are queuing up for irish passports. Furthermore there are very large irish origin populations in all English cities, many of whom are entitled to hold irish passports and are applying for them. As are many Scots of irish background. Irish is the big one numerically speaking but other EU nationalities come into play. One more headache for the brexiteers!

    I wonder what the EU is going to do to safeguard our citizenship,As far as I know no EU official has ever mentioned it.

    If the EU does nothing it proclaims its citizenship is not worth the paper it’s written on and sends a very bad message to citizens in other EU countries.

    French, german, Spanish citizens etc could just say “it counts for nothing, let’s fall back on our national governments and to hell with the EU and its pretendy citizenship”.

    This would obviously encourage the far-right nationalist movements which the EU seems very keen on containing.

    maybe an MEP could raise the question in the EU parliament?

  416. Grouse Beater says:

    Tank Girl has another BBC slot this week, round the table of Friday night bake-off review, with bunting and laughs.

    Let her eat cake.

  417. Liz g says:

    Hamish 100 @ 1.03
    You haven’t misspelled it,at all my friend.
    Scotch is used when talking about whisky.

  418. heedtracker says:

    Proud Cybernat says:
    16 October, 2016 at 1:39 pm
    @ Heedtracker

    Its up to the WoS mods. You know that.

  419. Capella says:

    @ Glamaig – yes I noticed the negative title on his video of Nicola’s opening speech.

    I would prefer it if the SNP automatically uploaded videos of speeches and interviews as soon as they happen. Then people like me, who don’t patronise the BBC, can have access to them.

    The SNP channel on youtube doesn’t seem to update. They are still showing Nicola’s PPB from 2014. The link to the 2016 conference livestream takes you to a blank video screen. But Scott Arthur’s videos are helpfully listed on the side bar.

    Needs a media person to keep it up to date.

  420. Tam Jardine says:


    It is a strange argument- the “4 times” trade argument. Apart from being based on UK government figures that are fatally flawed, every time they describe a future difficulty in trade between Scotland and the England, Wales & NI they are also describing the same difficulty England, Wales & NI would experience with trade with the vast block of the EU including Scotland.

    If Ian Murray thinks 1.25 million jobs are in jeopardy because of trade with the UK being threatened by independence he presumably concedes that there are a vast number of rUK jobs that are currently being threatened by brexit. Yet his party are resigned to making the best of it!

    His position is invidious. Ian Murray was elected not to represent Scottish Labour or Scotland or Jeremy Corbyn or UK labour or the UK or any of these groups.

    He was elected to represent the interests of his constituents- all his constituents as the Member of Parliament for Edinburgh South. I would suggest that the loss of financial passporting will affect his constituency and indeed the Edinburgh constituencies acutely and that preventing its loss should be a big priority.

    78% of constituents who voted in Ian Murray’s constituency voted to remain in the EU and he should be putting their wishes first and getting full square behind Nicola Sturgeon and he strategy to keep us in the EU. Otherwise he is in gross dereliction of his duties. As an MP you can never please everyone you represent but he has a moral obligation to represent this vast majority of those whom he represents instead of throwing in the towel.

    If ever there was an opportunity for Ian Murray to rise in my expectations it is now where he has a chance to put his electorate before all else. The slab defining characteristic is, of course to disappoint.

  421. Tam Jardine says:

    Long may Scott Arthur perform this valuable service- only in Scotland could the best source of SNP conference footage be provided by someone fundamentally opposed to independence.

  422. Liz g says:

    ben madigan @ 1.49
    I do hope the subject is raised somewhere.
    I think it has been a big mistake by Europe not to have been promoting the concept of citizenship,and giving it value.
    In the way the Americans do.
    That I think would have been a major stumbling block for Farage and his minions to have had to get over.

  423. Glamaig says:

    Im with you there. The SNP website is fkn abysmal useless and atrocious. If theres any useful information on it, I cant find it.

    It should be a fantastic asset and a goldmine of information and draw people in.

  424. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Heedtracker

    “Its up to the WoS mods. You know that.”

    What I “know” is that it is up to all of us here on the Indy side to battle as best we can, with everything we can to defeat the forces against us.

    Not to give them publicity. They have virtually ALL of the colonial print and broadcast media on their side. Our only real means to achieving any semblance of a level playing field is on social media.

    So WHY give them any more publicity there than they are already getting elsewhere? I don’t ‘get’ why you or anyone else on the indy side would want to do that?

  425. Arabs for Independence says:

    Grouse Beater @ 1:50 pm

    “let her eat cake” – I think they have.

    Too many celebrity shows and she’ll eventually become the joke figure that to many she already is.

  426. Robert Graham says:

    On the Daily politics show with Andrew Neil Fluffy insisting we were well informed of a vote on the EU was on the way,This was during the 2014 Referendum well f/k me i must have been out that day the only thing the NO side promoted was vote YES and yer out of Europe , A Total bloody liar , and for once he was given a grilling by Brillo nut .

  427. uno mas says:

    Early this morning Andy Murray beat Roberto Buatista of Spain
    7-6,6-1 to win the Shanghai Open. His sixth title of 2016, now closing in the number one spot.

    As I live in Spain I could watch live on free telly as they cover all sports involving Spanish athletes.

    Just saying like -:)

  428. heedtracker says:

    Tam Jardine says:
    16 October, 2016 at 2:00 pm

    It is a strange argument- the “4 times” trade argument.

    It is a really big issue though. Will the rUK stop trade between England and Scotland, with the resulant economic losses? We know SLab dudes threaten us that England will stop trade with Scotland and the blue tories are even more certain this will happen.

    Will it happen though? Can a Brexit rUK even afford to stop trade with Scotland? Its not asked by our media chums.

    Even if our ideal of independent Scotland and Scotland as an EU member does come about, Dr NO! and Ian Murray’s Project Fear threats of a hard Berwick border make little economic sense. There’s nothing like this across the EU with countries that are not EU members now for a whole range of common sense reasons.

  429. Nana says:

    For anyone who missed the muddling Mundell

    My teeth are still gritted

  430. Connor McEwen says:

    Petra @3.22am am. Am?? Agreed, maybe First Minister Nicola Sturgeon should have a non Spin Doctor to dig out the answers from WINGS, JOHN JAPPY, ROBIN MCALPINE, POSITIVE MONEY, AN THA. PROF WILLIAM SMITH FAE AUSTRALIA

  431. heedtracker says:

    So WHY give them any more publicity there than they are already getting elsewhere? I don’t ‘get’ why you or anyone else on the indy side would want to do that?

    Its because WoS is a politics and media blog site. Much more ofcourse, like free therapy:D

    Twitter is media and Dr NO! is not a doctor but he is a unionist and SLab activist. So what he says online is of some compare and contrast interest. Its that simple. If you dont like some comments, skim over them. Also, that simple.

  432. The Rough Bounds says:

    I agree with Glamaig at 2.05pm. The SNP website is absolutely dire. Why they haven’t done something about it is quite beyond me. There is nothing in it to inspire: nothing at all.

  433. yesindyref2 says:

    A bit of a surprise about Swinney, but perhaps he is being a devil’s advocate to get people in Scotland to think about currency so they say – no thanks, and the new plan moves in with a new currency. It could be why he was moved frrom Finance Secretary to Education. Similar to MacAskill writing what people think, the NO people rather than the YES people. It’s “reaching out”, inclusing to those in teh SNP and YES supporters with a different view. Hopefully it’s all part of a careful plan. I don’t think Swinney goes against party policy by the way. He certainly looked happy enough at the conference!

  434. Legerwood says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    16 October, 2016 at 1:43 pm
    Breeks: “Borders railway is a great success… moving business away from the bus companies.”

    Legerwood: “Breeks, the Borders local council [is] responsible for most of the road network throughout their own area. The Scottish Government are only concerned with trunk roads, such as the M74.

    That’s correct, Legerwood. If it was otherwise unionists would scream Sturgeon doesn’t care about the dreadful state of ‘our’ inner city road surfaces.””

    Grouse Beater you appear to be assigning a quote to me from my 11.45am post that came from Breeks.

    Maybe I did not set it out clearly enough but I thought I had.

  435. Capella says:

    So we’re saying that the SNP website and youtube channel should be the goto places for all videos, clips, speeches, interviews, policy statements, calendar of events, photo archive, PPBs, tweets and facebook links.

    That would require a young person to be the IT media guru. Worth the salary I would say.

    The SNP can no longer rely on the BBC to publicise their conferences and interviews. But the clip of Nicola’s speech on children in care is there now. Watch it while you can:

  436. Nana says:

    Backstabbers backtracking

    Brexit latest: Eurostar to cut train services and axe staff due to ‘challenging environment’ after EU vote

  437. Breeks says:

    The A7 was only de-trucked in 2005, and it is now frequently closed with major detours when SBC decide to conduct repairs. On one occasion, heading North from Carlisle, I was not informed the A7 was being closed until I exited Langholm, and was required to return to Canonbie and take an unmarked detour via Newcastleton. At a rough guess, that added a 30 mile detour onto a 20 mile journey on back country roads at night. Thankfully I was broadly familiar with alternative route, but pity help the unwary traveller. Time was the A7 was respected as the primary route through the Borders but rather than upgrade it fit for purpose they downgrade its importance and leave haudit and dawdit from SBC to look after it.

    So the Railway isn’t the responsibility of SBC, ok, then tell me who is responsible for addressing the corruption at SBC? Let me guess, would that be SBC too is it? I know for a fact SNP Ministers certainly aren’t interested.

    But go ahead, don’t listen to me. What the feck do I know? I could always move couldn’t I?

  438. Meg merrilees says:

    Just been catching up on Sunday Politics on TV. Andrew Neil/ Slithering Mundell

    Has the worm turned?

    Cannot believe that Andrew Neil, for the 2nd time this week, is protesting, ON OUR BEHALF, that the people of Scotland were lied to before the2014 ref i.e ‘the only way to guarantee membership of the EU was to vote NO’
    He’s playing Devil’s advocate but it does get the message out!

    Of course slimy Mundell denying it vehemently – what an ugly, petulant man and such a deep furrow of frustration in his brow! Def does’t suit a beard ( if you could call it that.) And he is lying blatantly on live TV, there for all to see. What a disgrace to Scotland.

    He is a treacherous Secretary of State AGAINST Scotland.

    Well Done Andy Murray !!!

  439. Edward says:

    I think some investigating needs to be done regards Marr quoting an alleged statement from the Spanish Prime Minister regards Scotland being in the EU

    Marr quoted while interviewing Nicola Sturgeon

    There was no reference point made by Marr as to when the ‘statement’ was given by Rajoy, so could have been at any time. I suspect that it was around the time of the 2014 referendum (the BBC yoons are lazy that way)

    The other thing I noted was the absolute shrillness of the statement which is not the usual Rajoy way

    Thing is Rajoy has his own problems which include the fact that his own coat is on a shaky peg as he was denied a second term and looks likely that there will be another election in Spain. As at the moment both government and opposition parties are in deadlock

    It could be that Marr was quoting from an article in the Independent published June 29th

    But it its also the case that the Spanish Foreign minister stated something differently as was reported on the Wee Ginger Dug blog, well worth a read in order to get true context of what’s going on

  440. Meg merrilees says:

    Galamcennalath @ 12.29
    Thanks for the link – just read Mcwhirter’s article.

    So, as Westminster now has EVEL which was foisted on Scotland, Wales and N Ireland, what if PM May, brings in her Great Repeal Bill unopposed. Does that mean all British legislation then has the potential to impact on the English, including reserved matters, and as such, under EVEL would preclude our MP’s from having any say on anything?

    Surely they wouldn’t try that one? Would they???

  441. Robert Graham says:

    Agree with comments regarding SNP website woeful and amateurish, any Current Imformation is on sites like this Wings – Wee ginger dug – Bateman – Bella – Newsnet , And all this funded by ordinary people who CARE . I really hoped that the Depute Leadership contest had been won by Tommy Sheppard Who I feel would have really shaken things up ,Best wishes to Angus Robertson for winning but just seems more of the same but who knows slowly slowly might work, For some reason my vote never appeared ,never arrived ,and I wasn’t asked to vote , I just wonder out of a membership of 120.000 + How many in fact voted .

  442. Meg merrilees says:

    Nana @ 2.55pm following on from your Eurostar link –

    The pound could lose it’s position as a reserve currency says Standard and Poor

  443. Sunniva says:

    Allegra Stratton on Peston alleging the recent BMG poll claims support for independence has declined to 39% since Brexit but Scot Goes Pop saying same poll says support for leaving the UK if hard Brexit is 45%

    What is going on?

  444. Dan Huil says:

    @Sunniva 3:26pm

    Well, if you’ve read scotgoespop’s blog on BMG you’ll know exactly what’s going on.

  445. Nana says:

    @Meg merrilees

    Thanks Meg.

    I put this link on off topic this morning and forgot to put it on here.


  446. yesindyref2 says:

    That’s something the SNP are weak on at times, and it does hack locals off. As much as anything it’s communication, but some perhaps most is down to the local council. That part of the A7 is however still part of the trunk road system, so is down to the Scottish Government (Transport Scotland – Amey by the looks of it), you’d probably have better info, years since I’ve done that road:

  447. yesindyref2 says:

    Came up in a Herald thread, it was last Thursday I think, May visiting Spain:

    That doesn’t give the quote nor its exact context, probably quoted elsewhere. It was of course Rajoy using May’s visit to squash Catlonia, and his point is about the Spanish Constitution which doesn’t allow Catalonian “secession”, whereas there’s nothing in the UK Constituion (unwritten) to stop it.

  448. ScottishPsyche says:

    How long is the myth of Scotland’s status going to be perpetuated by the BBC on the rUK? Give him his due, Andrew Neil was at last asking pertinent questions of the Tories in Scotland but not before time.

    The figures and analyses are all there to be found, yet BBC Scotland and MSM still mostly pumping out sewage. That some in the MSM are beginning to query this line is welcome but surely in order to survive, the others must now start to put out the truth? Think what a turnaround the Record or the Herald could have should they start to ask real questions of the Treasury or scrape the glitter of the turd that is Ruth Davidson.

    Why have the National never asked WoS to write a column? The traffic it would bring would probably secure their future! Too worried they would scare off the RISE/Bella contingent that prop it up at present? It really is time for a big editorial shake up if the press is to survive beyond the next IndyRef.

  449. yesindyref2 says:

    @Capella and others
    Yes, the SNP website is rubbish. It was better when it had a media section, where you could easily get its stories. Now it’s all about internal SNP campaigning, joining. Much like the YES website was – no information.

  450. gus1940 says:

    I have watched the Marr, Murnaghan, Peston and Sunday Politics shows today.

    While not being surprised at the usual deluge of lies and distortion emanating from the politicians and the wonderfully balanced panels of talking heads it is really amazing just how out of touch they all are with the reality of the political situation in Scotland.

  451. crazycat says:

    Re: Mundell’s assertions that Ruth Davidson did not say that No guaranteed staying in the EU, which has been cited by several people here, starting I think with Hamish100:

    RD is one of the very few (perhaps even the only prominent one) who did explicitly say No = staying. All/most other commentators said Yes = leaving, with the contrary implied but not asserted.

    There is a video of her doing this, at a debate in London, I think, though I do not have a link. She was asked about a possible EU referendum, and coyly replied that that would need a Tory victory in 2015, which at that stage she regarded as very unlikely, based on the polls.

    It looks as if Mundell is 180 degrees out with his statement.

  452. crazycat says:

    Further to my post at 4.41 – while I was typing and submitting it, a new thread appeared, containing the very video I referred to, and discussing it.

    What I said above is therefore redundant (but still true).

  453. Breeks says:

    @ Yesindyref2 4:02

    It’s the one thing that makes me really angry. I am an ardent believer in Scottish Independence, but I despair at the competence with which it’s being pursued. That does not mean I wish to see the SNP fail, of course it doesn’t, it means I want the SNP to up its game and start running a progressive and scrupulously professional campaign to actively win Independence, not merely avoid losing it.

    How lucky the SNP is to have Wings on watch, and taking to task the falsehoods and propaganda propagated by the media. Where is SNP’s Wee Blue Book?

    How lucky the SNP is have IndyRef2 website regularly taking the BBC to task for its bias.

    How lucky the SNP is to have another bite at a referendum following the UK’s Brexit referendum.

    How lucky the SNP is to have social media articulate the betrayals of the Vow, and flagrant breach of purdah rules.

    See the pattern here? When does the SNP start winning its own fights on its own terms?

    Winning Independence means defeating the hostile media, ending the propaganda, making the case for Independence legible to our population unfettered by biased opinion or corrupt manipulation of the agenda. If you can’t do it, at least you try don’t you???

    I don’t buy the myth the media is going to destroy itself. We have Labour and Tory opposition here which defies electoral success. We have hostile propaganda news sheets which defy the laws of economics and continue to exist. We have the BBC a law unto itself with £3.5 billion annual budget. We have a formal opposition to Independence which is forever first with an opinion but yet cannot fill an assembly hall. Please, I beg you, tell me you can see how fickle and artificial these circumstances are. There is some covert power at work here, unspoken manipulation of the agenda and context. Why is it I have this haunting feeling we touch souls with the Christian martyrs being fed to the lions in the Roman colosseum who believed faith alone will save them from the jaws of the lions? Have we a similar faith in a 50% majority? I prefer a little less faith and a lot more certainty.

    Here we sit on the brink of a bad tempered constitutional argument with Westminster, with our opening gambit being whether or not we will or will not have another referendum. How are we going to win independence if we are embarrassed to admit that it is everything we stand for?

    I’m not all that bothered about a referendum, not because I’m anti-democratic, but because I am wracked with cynicism that the process can be carried out with integrity, and may just be another Unionist propaganda fest passively excused by SNP indifference and just like 2014 all over again.

    If you can’t trust the referendum process, then Plan B is surely the constitutional fudge of Scots law and Scottish sovereignty, and its implacable incompatibility with the Westminster parliament. For the life of me I do not understand why this Mons Meg of a howitzer hasn’t been launching constitutional projectiles the size of small cars in the general direction of Westminster for decades. OK, Labour were never going to use it, but the opportunity has always been there. Use it.

    I have repeatedly asked the question where an Independent Scotland’s sovereign power will flow. IF, as seems the ONLY rational option, it is reconnecting with the popular civic sovereignty articulated in the Declaration of Arbroath and ratified by the Claim of Right, then how can we properly embrace that sovereignty without reconciling the permanent and non transferable nature of Scottish sovereignty with the apparent subservience it currently suffers before Westminster’s sovereignty? The only answer to that question currently seems to be “do not ask the question”. I would ask the question. I would ask Theresa May the bloody question.

    I’m a nobody in all of this, but I’ve rattled out half a dozen suggestions of things the SNP could do; but it does nothing beyond asking for my vote again.

    I just don’t get it. The SNP are carrying the weight of so much expectation, and frankly I don’t know whether they are up to the job, or riding their luck like the feckless local SNP charlatans who talk the talk but certainly don’t walk the walk in my own neck of the woods.

    I like Nicola, I like her a lot, but I would still put Nicola Sturgeon on the spot and ask her if she envisions a time in the near future where Scotland is outside the EU trying to get in, and sees the independence issue rumbling on in a post Brexit UK, deeply mired in the decay and collapse of our Scottish institutions and economy.

    For me, it’s Independence or bust. I flatter myself to believe I am one of those hundred who remains alive…

  454. Petra says:

    I quite enjoyed watching lying Mundell being grilled by Andrew Neil. Mundell’s answers, mostly non answers, must have gained us even more Yes supporters.


    I’ve been trying to imagine what things would have been like in Scotland, during this Brexit time, if Labour had been in power. Inept Dugdale, Baillie, Kelly et al calling the shots on behalf of their even more inept Labour masters down south. So inept that I can’t see any point to this party at all now: one that I voted for over time. For decades we were led to believe that they were the only party strong enough, by sheer numbers, to oppose the detested Tories. That myth has surely been kicked into the long grass. Labour seem to have morphed into Tories, that is as a form without the brain power.

    The Julian Huppert article about the Investigatory Powers Bill (Nana – 8:28am) is another example as to why the Labour Party is finished. “Labour absent from almost every vote (on the Bill) and when it came to the final vote supported the Tories.”

    Now you could say that maybe this all happened because they do genuinely support the Bill and aren’t concerned about snooping at all. Well that theory is quashed when you see that they voted for the Bill “because the Tories agreed to include protection from State surveillance for Trade Union activities.” That tells you that they are extremely concerned about the implications of snooping; just NOT for you and I. Additionally if they believe for one minute that GCHQ won’t be snooping on Trade Union activists they’re even dafter than I thought.


    Some great articles in the Sunday Herald today … great front page ‘Sealed with a kiss’, good ‘unedited’ coverage of the Conference – Russia versus the West: The Cold War that’s starting to turn hot – RBS dash for cash scandal with 500 businesses suing the bank – Our broken rail system – The people V the Scots aristocrats (land) – Lidl overseas slave labour etc, etc.


    The situation in relation to Russia V the West is really ramping up. Let’s hope that all sensible politicians unite at Westminster to prevent escalation. It makes me laugh (not really) when we’re told that we should hold onto Nuclear weapons to protect us from countries like North Korea. The GREATEST threat to us, Scotland, is Westminster, imo, as they create situations that could see us all being blown to Kingdom come. Much as I think Putin may like the Scots, Scotland, I can’t see him ‘overlooking’ us if and when he targets the only two other countries in the west that have nuclear weapons, i.e. the US and France. Let’s get our Independence ASAP and fire the nukes into England. Fire meaning relocate of course, lol. I better make that clear to prevent GCHQ adding me to their list.

  455. Rock says:

    Liz g,

    “Rock @ 7.12
    Yes absolutely… IF he did actually say it then he is wrong.”

    “Former SNP justice secretary Kenny MacAskill warned Mrs May might block a referendum, saying she could simply tell the First Minister: “No, you’re not getting it.””

    A former SNP justice secretary is wrong and you are right?

  456. Ruby says:

    ‘Edward says:
    16 October, 2016 at 3:14 pm

    I think some investigating needs to be done regards Marr quoting an alleged statement from the Spanish Prime Minister regards Scotland being in the EU’

    Link to article in El Pais

    Google translate:

    ‘Instead, it refers to the commitment of Rajoy to support the territorial “integrity” of the UK and not encourage “any kind of secessionism related to the exit from the EU,” referring to the purpose of the main Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon , to call a second referendum on independence.’

    He doesn’t say he would vote against Scotland joining the EU.

    Although this English newspaper would like us to think he did

    ‘With an eye on his own Catalan separatist issue, Rajoy told May that Spain would support the “integrity of the UK” in any renewed attempts by Scotland to become an independent country and stay in the EU.’

    That’s all pretty boring! The most interesting thing about Spain is the situation with Gibraltar.

    All kinds of interesting article about that

    The new FALKLANDS WAR? Spain calls in ARGENTINA to help re-claim Gibraltar after Brexit

    Theresa May told to send WARSHIPS to Gibraltar as message to Spain during Brexit talks

    Johnson cites Godfather in rejecting Spain’s Gibraltar claims

  457. Ruby says:

    Ooops I should have said the article in El Pais is dated 13 Oct 2016

  458. Rock says:

    HandandShrimp, mr thms, yesindyref2, Brian Doonthetoon

    Robert Peffers had stated:

    “as a majority of the sovereign people of Scotland, being sovereign, cannot be overruled and Nicola has a mandate to hold a referendum from the sovereign people of Scotland.”

    How does Nicola have a mandate to hold a second referendum if the SNP does not have a majority and the Greens did not have holding a referendum in their manifesto?

    If the Greens vote for a referendum, well and good, but as it stands Nicola does not currently have a mandate to hold one without a majority vote in parliament.

  459. Liz g says:

    Rock @ 6.35
    More people voted for Nicola’s manifesto than anybody else’s.
    Thus a mandate is created.

  460. gus1940 says:

    Petra at 5.40

    What makes you think that you are not already on GCHQ’s list along with the rest of us wingers.

  461. Petra says:

    I’ve advocated something being done about the SNP website previously too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could go there click on whatever; oil, electricity, economy and so on and get some up to date information …. facts and figures? I’d also list famous Scots / achievements to promote a sense of self worth. If you look at the Constitution section, very brief, there’s not even a mention of the Scots being sovereign. No mention of Trident, potential (and actual) hazards, risks and accidents. If this is down to the SNP being cash strapped they could ask for donations and would surely get them. Maybe we should email them to this effect.


    Mundell and the EU.

    We all know that we were threatened with “vote Yes and you’re out of the EU.” He also seems to conveniently forget that the Referendum was held before the General Election and that if Labour had won there would have been no EU Ref at all. At one point it looked as though Labour could win put paid to, in part, by Carmichael’s Frenchgate lies. Carmichael the liar who shared an office with Mundell, the liar, at that particular time.

  462. yesindyref2 says:

    Give it a break Rock.

    14 Oct 2016: “While the SNP does not hold a Holyrood majority, there are more pro-independence than pro-union MSPs in the Scottish Parliament taking into account the six Greens. The Green co-convenor Patrick Harvie has already said his party would back a second referendum if it comes to a vote.

  463. Rock says:

    Liz g,

    “Rock @ 6.35
    More people voted for Nicola’s manifesto than anybody else’s.
    Thus a mandate is created.”

    That is not how democracy works.

  464. Rock says:


    Give it a break Rock.

    14 Oct 2016: “While the SNP does not hold a Holyrood majority, there are more pro-independence than pro-union MSPs in the Scottish Parliament taking into account the six Greens. The Green co-convenor Patrick Harvie has already said his party would back a second referendum if it comes to a vote.””

    If and when the Scottish parliament votes for it, Nicola will have a mandate to hold a referendum, assuming that Westminster does not have the power to block one.

    There is no difference between us and the unionists if we promote untruths in the same way as they do.

  465. North Chiel says:

    Re “Breeks” at 0522pm , ” winning independence is about defeating the hostile media”,
    Couldn’t agree more with you . I am in no doubt that the “propaganda channel” and the “London owned” press under the direct control of the Downing st. establishment won the referendum for ” Better together”. I am equally convinced that the reason Cameron lost the EU referendum
    was because he did not have the backing of the national newspapers ( indeed a number actively campaigned for ” leave”.). Additionally the BBC DARE NOT have been seen to be as blatantly biased as regards the EU referendum as they were in 2014, as Farage, Gove and the gang would have been down on them like a ton of bricks, and would have been crying foul from the rooftops.
    Consequently as Breeks says , this needs to be addressed before any Indyref2

  466. Grouse Beater says:

    Breeks: “See the pattern here? When does the SNP start winning its own fights on its own terms?”

    That’s the perfect example of the sort of fatuous nonsense you seem unconcerned to spout, Breeks, while simultaneously offering comforting homilies no one here could disagree with, myself included.

    You set up a serious of false propositions and then say, look, I’m correct, read my list. But your list isn’t evidence of anything except an ability to list gripes. That, in a nutshell, is my objection to the content – not all of it! – but a lot of your mini-essays. One false valuation is followed by one true one.

    Peace and goodwill, as Smallaxe would say.

  467. yesindyref2 says:

    Well Rock there’s not going to be a second independence referendum without legislation in Holyrood, and without a vote being taken, and without that vote passing but it will pass because the Greens will support it – they’ve said so.

    And during Indy Ref 2 the Greens will campaign for a YES – because they’ve said so.

    So I think we can assume the Greens are a YES – yes?

  468. Petra says:

    @ Gus1940 at 6:46pm ….’GCHQ Threat to the State List.’

    That was me being facetious Gus, as you’ll know, lol. We’re well aware of the Tory penchant for ‘lists’. They say they’ve backtracked on the foreigner’s list. I doubt it.

    You can bet your bottom dollar that every SNP politician, Councillor, Party member and supporter on sites like this will be on their list.

    They’ll have a team of numpties, getting paid megabucks, to sit and read through the posts on here and then, as the Nazis did, categorise us by level of threat.

    “Oooooooh …. aaaah …. jings to hang …. help ma Bob …. am feert.’

  469. Liz g says:

    Rock @ 7.19
    Oh but that’s exactly how democracy works.
    Might not be how parliament works but that’s not what you asked now is it.

  470. Scott says:

    Army set to buy £3bn fleet from German firms

    The eight-wheeled Boxers would cost taxpayers at least £4 million each

    The army is poised to buy a fleet of armoured vehicles from Germany for £3 billion in a deal that risks costing Britain an extra £1 billion and hundreds of jobs, The Times has learnt.

    French steel to be used to build new submarines

    Why so very little reporting on this and will the tank and dug be blaming the SNP

  471. Davosa says:

    Pity Lord Watson the Fireraiser wasn’t on the guest list – or maybe ……….

  472. Ruaridh says:

    You have forgotten Dr Scott Arthur who is all over twitter with 3+ Yoon accounts and a yoon Youtube account

  473. Grouse Beater says:

    Ruaridh: “Dr Scott Arthur who is all over twitter with 3+ Yoon accounts and a yoon Youtube account.”

    Multiple personalities? Par for the course with screaming empire loyalists.

    His pal Gallagher avers, “It’s all in the cause of the struggle”. Unfortunately, he forgets to add, “To constrain individual rights and freedoms for those living in Scotland”.

  474. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “There’s absolutely no need for personal attacks! You have your views, which I don’t agree with, and I have mine. Your free to have your own political views. But you are demonstrating the bile, venom & hatred which soured Scotland during the referendum, and which has put off so many Scots from supporting your cause.”


    “I don’t personally know you, but from your rhetoric, I can assume you were the school bully who used to pick on kids with learning disabilities, foreign kids, and those who wouldn’t do as you said.
    You are the face of independence, and probably, single handedly, have turned more people away from your cause than you have recruited – Congratulations.”

    Ooh! Your “no personal attacks” policy lasted all of half a paragraph before you fired off a veritable torrent of baseless and spectacularly wrong personal abuse. Still, at least you tried, eh?

  475. Andrew Morton says:

    On Twitter recently I referred to Scotland in Union as a Tory front organisation. This turned out to require a personal tweet visit from the man himself, Alistair Cameron. For some reason he seemed very annoyed and regarded it as a slur to be associated with the Tory party. Consequently I can only assume that they’re a Labour front organisation.

  476. Brose says:

    Are any of the officials ,Directors of SIU Scottish ?

  477. Becca says:

    Sounds like two English guys arguing over the future of Scotland to me. Whats new?!

  478. vagabondo says:

    If he so so concerned about sample size, Alistair Cameron might like to reflect that at any time during the Usher Hall event on Saturday more folk had nipped out for a pee than there are members of Scotland In Union.

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