Wings Over Scotland

Perfect summary of events so far. The EU in 2017. Never thought I would see the like.

SLabour are beyond hideous now.

A paramilitary Police force exists not to defend the State and the People from outside threats but the inner Elite and Rulers from the People.

It is the physical repressive arm of a State which has not cleansed itself of its fascist past

This is just terrible, my heart goes out to the poor folk of Catalonia, who just want to vote on their future, without violence.

The Catalonian government must document all the cases of physical assaults. The UN is a disgrace not overseeing the vote, UDI is the only route now for the people of Cattalonia.

Hopefully this is not a catalyst to a return of armed violence by the likes of ETA.

UDI being reported as likely in the next 48hrs, possibly regardless of the “result”.

This will FORCE the U.N. and the EU to act.

Interesting times ahead for sure.

SLabour goons back this?

link to catalannews.com

Qui tacet consentere. Silence gives consent. The Unionist parties give consent to the tactics and behaviour of the Spanish government.

Brian Wilson! what’s the Gaelic for “Shite!” again!

This is the email address of the Spanish consulate in Edinburgh: cog.edimburgo@maec.es

I have sent them a polite email pledging never to buy Spanish produce and never to travel to Spain outside of Catalunya.

I urge everyone else to get in touch with them and politely express our outrage at Spanish actions.

what can the EU do to Spain … it’s a internal matter ?? do they threaten to kick them out ??

but Labour show their true colours and lack of class yet again

So sad to see this in a so called democracy. Could never happen here.
Oh wait Scotland was threatened with invasion if we voted yes.
EU and UN must intervene before this gets totally out of control

I am greatly saddened and (as a remain voter) hugely disappointed that the EU remains silent on this. A crisis for the EU could fall out of this situation and for once, I won’t be sympathetic…

So much for reforming the EU. All empty words…My independent Scotland in Europe stance is changing. I wonder if we would not be much better off in the Nordic community.

This is terrifying.

These are not isolated incidents.

The Spanish police brutality is happening in many different locations. Under orders and as trained I presume.

ALL the footage I have seen is of people sitting, standing or walking, then being flung, kicked, shoved, dragged and shot at by robo-style cops.

And still not retaliating with violence in return. The voters are not even able to protect themselves.

The peaceful restraint of the Catalans is incredible.

Why would any body of people want to stay a part of a country that treats their ‘own’ like that?

SPAIN, HANG YOUR HEAD IN SHAME.

Shame on the Spanish government this behaviour is not acceptable.

Shame on the UKOK party’s and Westminster the silence can never be forgotten you will never have credibility again.

Very difficult for the EU how can they explain their silence?

Seem that the Herald/Sunday Herald ? have now blocked comments on this outrage !

How’s the BBC doing?

Interesting report on NDTV (New Dehli TV).

(Never going to hear this on Uk MSM)

They are reporting that local catalan police are NOT getting involved in the crackdown by police.

They are apparently being helpful to people trying to vote.

Even worse news for Madrid, when the Catalan police are refusing to go along with your subversion of democracy.

Having a police force onside when Catalan gov declares UDI is a HUGE booster.

Bradfor Millar @ 11.31 Spain maybe regard this as an internal matter, but it is EU citizens that they’re currently knocking seven bells out of.

Article 7 forbids the use of police/ military against their own population. So where the hell are they then, or are they all feart to put their heids above the parapet.

This is an international disgrace, not just an internal matter, so where are all the voices in support of the peoples rights.

Madrid is doing everything wrong and no listening to anyone of sense.

Machismo is a Spanish word.

I am in Barcellona now and can’t find a single person who doesn’t want a vote.

Article 7 also calls for the suspension of any country that uses
police/military force against it’s own people.

What are you waiting for boys?

Sorry EU totally and utterly diminished in my eyes.

Tony Little says:
1 October, 2017 at 11:45 am
Article 7 of the EU treaty specifically refers to the use of force by police/military against a country’s own population. Spain is clearly in breach of this condition and should be summarily suspended. Will EU act?

Article 7 of the European Union Treaty;
“Suspension of any Member State that uses military force on its own population.”

Still nothing from Jezza Corbyn too. What a pack of charlatans they are.

Craig Murray has a good article on how NATO went to war to defend the right to self-determination of the Kosovans, which Kosovan secession was claimed as illegal by Serbia.

Yet the democratic rights of the Catalonian people are violently denied.

link to craigmurray.org.uk

I will not be going to Spain again for holidays. Rev- could you post the names of the cruise liner companies that have hired out their ships to the Spanish Govt to use as barracks in Barcelona. Lets boycott Spanish goods, holidays and these cruise companies.

@Legerwood
As in Scotland it is the older leftist generation who shun ‘separatism’, the Brian Wilson type.
In Catalonia these people are meeting their nemesis.
Ironic that the interests of the orthodox British/Spanish left accord on this matter with those of the right.

Good old beeb…

Brewer just stated that…

“im not sure its fair to say its a nasty situation, i mean, i dont think anything worse has happened than what you might see in the average demonstration in any big city, but it could get quite nasty”.

There you have it folks…the BBC verdict on the subversion of democracy by the state.

Un fucking believable.

Spain has just left the building. Europe looks worse than Trumpland today. I loved that the Catalans came here in 2014… And that they stood with us even as the Britnats had the US president say discouraging things, and the European Union lined up behind Rajoy and the Commonwealth onboard… As Spain throws much worse at you, thank-you Catalonia, you deserve your vote, and you have many new friends. Here is wishing you the spirit of Pablo Casals and the right to self-determination.

Now is the time. Respect.

Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May are currently tweeting about housing matters.

Not a peep from both over the fascist violence occuring in Catalonia right now.

Had my first encounter with the Guardia Civil on the Franco-Spanish border in 1970. They haven’t changed.

Labours Brian Wilson supports the facist like behaviour of Madrid’s paramilitary.What a low life. It is indefensible.

Should we not organise a demonstration that thuggery by a state against people wishing to vote is a crime against the people.
Disgraceful scenes.
Isis is a terrorist organisation. So is the Spanish paramilitary it seems

Staggering in both the horror of the Spanish police and the utterly (and predictably) contemptuous response from Labour.

James Sneddon says:
1 October, 2017 at 11:17 am
I never in my life thought Labour could get any lower but those comments sicken me would not be out of place in 1930’s Germany. Spain shows itself ti be incapable of casting off its fascist past, stupid, stupid Spain

We should never forget that the legally appointed Chancellor of Germany Hitler became the legally sanctioned dictator. All subsequent murder, torture, waging of war and oppression was legally sanctioned by the state. The branch office “logic” thus supports fascism as a legitimate form of political expression.

Absolutely horrendous. They ar attacking the people they insist should want to stay part of Spain! WTAF!

That must be terrifying, look at who they are targeting, anyone, old, young it doesn’t matter to them. And the actual fckg armour these robots working for the Spanish police are wearing. Cowards.
This is not a riot, the people are not looting, attacking anyone or anything, yet the Spanish police do this?!

I will not be buying anything Spanish from now on, I thought they were a civilised modern country, but no, just backward, oppressive right wing extremists.

What a sad day. As for the EU, if they don’t do not come out and condemn this oppression and violence against the Catalans, they will have lost my support.

As has benn mentioned, perhaps a we should think seriously about a Nordic type of membership. Have as little to do with the EU as possible.

What are other EU member states saying about this? I know brexit little britnat britain doesn’t give too hoots even if people are killed by Spanish police.

Very sad, very angry.

Colonel Ruth, to Sir Gordon Brewer,

I’VE BEEN SO FORTHRIGHT IN MY DISAPPOINTMENT AND MY ANGER AT THE SNP AND THE FIRST MINISTER FOR TRYING TO SAY THAT A REFERENDUM THAT THEY SAID WOULD RECOGNISE THEY JUST WANT TO RERUN AGAIN ”

The Colonel is not amused.

Fascism returns to Spain in 2017. If you tolerate this…

re;not convinced@12.38

Nah, Cameron had the whole of the media on his side, he even employed celebs, and even Obama and the queen to oppose Scot indy before we even voted! He did not need to bring in the troops, that time. They knew they would secure their no vote, by hook or by crook, look at what untRuth said about postal votes! They, the tories, UK state, approved by all britnats, ie, Labour, Libdums, and with UKIP hanging around like a bad smell, they had it in the bag.

It could be different next time, but the again, the stakes are less on the side of independence, for now. Just wait until Brexit really kicks in. My anti SNP, anti Scotindy retired friends are thinking of, ‘moving up to Scotland’. Yep, but they will be voting yes if I have anything to do with it!

A very bad look for Spain today, and the EU in fact.

If they want this kind of world for our kids, nevermind climate change etc, they really have lost the fckg plot!

Silence from Westminster suggests to me they’re watching closely to see how successful this strategy is in suppressing the attempt at Catalan independence. If strong arm tactics are successful against an “illegal” vote then I can see similar tactics against indyref2.

Think about it, WM refuse to agree to indyref2 (they’re already saying there’s no mandate for it) then claim any attempt to hold indyref2 is illegal. Follow Spain’s tactics and suppress it by sending in jackboots into polling stations. Then sit back and listen to silence from the EU and the international community.

Colonel Ruth Davidson, describes the violent events being played out in Catalonia, as a “Fast moving situation.” And not a violent fascist putdown of democracy.

Did I just miss something?

link to mobile.twitter.com

A 21st century modern western democracy. Not so you’d notice.

Those scenes are appalling.

IMO Spain has now made Catalan independence a certainty. And soon.

I wonder if Ruth Davidson knows any of the Spanish National Police? You know from her little private meetings at the Conservative Party Conference.
How’s your side of the deal look now Ruth?

O/T
plans for no Brexit deal are underway

link to rte.ie

Of course Brewer pointed out that Holyrood voted for a referendum, though she ran the whole election campaign at the GE17 and lost whereas the SNP won, or he probably didn’t point that out.

Brewer’s an old hand though. He’s probably one of the biggest journalistic er, beeb Scotland powers against Scottish democracy and ofcourse the SNP.

BBC r4 Sunday lunch news skip blithely past Spanish police violence too, 38 injured, its illegal anyway, hey diddly ho, its a beeb gimp propaganda life for Scotland.

Beeb r4 news gimp is over in Spain too. It all sounds rather really, as you’d expect. Democracy really stretches and strains BBC tory propaganda right enough.

337 people injured so far.

@giesabrek.

Gie us aw a brek fae this chuntering nonsense.

Catalonia = REGION of Span

Scotland = A COUNTRY in a political union (EQUAL PARTNER, despite appearances).

There is

There is no comparison.

SLabour at work. Get a complaint, delete, otherwise, there’s no depths in the UKOK zone today.

Tom Harris?Verified account @MrTCHarris

Nationalists support nationalism, wherever it occurs

Tom Harris?Verified account @MrTCHarris 52m52 minutes ago

On reflection, I should not have posted an insulting Tweet earlier about Scottish nationalists. Now deleted. Apologies.

If only Spain had learned from London and not allowed things like independent catalan media it would never have got this far.

I wonder what the %s are of Spanish from rest of Spain and Catalans are? The brit expats would be voting No of course.

@ heedtracker It was standing at that a few hours ago to be fair. I’d rather get my news from the horses mouth than its erse. Catalan News twitter feed.

LIVE at the mo. CATALONIA. Peaceful Demo and speeches outside the Spanish Consulate,Edinburgh Scotland.
Lihttp://independencelive.net/vestream:

I’ll try again:
Livestream:

link to independencelive.net

What I am wondering is where are the Catalan police in all this?
Should they no be inbeetween the people and the Madrid police.
The must have the stormtrooper kit as well!
Should they no have clamped or towed all they vans day’s ago?
And why did the Catalan government no have their police barracade the port and keep them in?
Surely the Catalan police ARE the law enforcement?

The eyes of the World are on this affront to democracy.

This from the Largest democracy,,,,

link to timesofindia.indiatimes.com.

@Marie Clark says: 1 October, 2017 at 11:31 am:

“I never thought that I would see the day. It looks as though that bad bastard Franco is still alive and well. Rajoy, should be dragged before the international court for this, but by the looks of things, I won’t hold my breath.”

There is now no doubt there is now a list of organisations that must make a stand on the issues now besetting Spain and the Catalonian situation.

These include The United Nations, The Council of Europe, The European Parliament and any other Government in the World that classes itself as a democracy.

I have no doubts that the Government of Spain have made a grave error in sending in the brutal state police to deal in such a manner with a democratic and peaceful independence movement. By their actions they have forever lost the argument and Catalonia will, perhaps not immediately, be an independent nation.

No one can forever suppress a democratic wish for self determination. Many empires, including that of Britain, tried and failed to do so and Spain has just blown any hope they had of holding onto Catalonia.

The question is now, will the Council of Europe, The UN and the European Union join Spain in the failure of democracy?

If these organisations fail to take decisive action against the government of Spain then they are no better that the Spanish Government and collude with their actions.

Are we about to see the end of the United Nations, The Council of Europe and the European Union? All of who will be totally irrelevant if they stand by and allow Spain to act so brutally against a democratic movement of a people who only seek a democratic choice of Self determination that is a keystone tenet of the United nations, The Council of Europe and the European Union and of which three organisations the government of Spain is signatory to those tenets.

They must either take action to expel Spain or be classed along with them as anti-democratic. They made the rules so let us see them uphold them now.

Assuming that if people protest against privatisation of the NHS or against austerity in London, Labour will be happy with whatever the police response is.

I am deeply saddened by what I am seeing today and extremely angry at the same time. The usual suspects making excuses for this level of state violence are utterly despicable human beings (they know who they are). Same goes for those using today’s events for their ongoing SNP bad narrative. Fkin Cnuts the lot of em.

What are the EU doing about this? Should they not be intervening to protect citizens? About time we saw Article 7 invoked and Spain suspended (I won’t hold my breath).

The BBC and other MSM outlets should hang their bloody heads in shame (oh wait they have no shame). As for the Tory and Labour responses (or lack of) to what is happening (don’t even get me started on them halfwits) they are clearly wondering if they might get away with something similar for indyref2 and staying relatively silent.

Having a head in hands moment right now and feeling more than a little teary eyed. Probably best if I don’t say too much more as my anger is rapidly rising at what is currently unfolding and I don’t want to say anything that might later be used against me or the movement out of context.

Welcome to Western Democracy. Pah!

That ugly British nationalist, Brian Wilson, once again shames Scotland. How he loves to do so!

Another ugly British nationalist, Hothersall, deliberately misquotes the FM. The powers in Westminster and Madrid will be so happy they have such a lying British nationalist on their side.

To the Remain voting Indy supporters on this thread now suggesting we abandon the EU as a result of the Catalonian Referendum, let me say this:
* It is not the EU that is perpetrating the violence against the Catalonians, it is the Spanish state
* Should we leave the UN or NATO as neither of these organisations have condemned the actions of the Spanish state or taken any action?

Let’s keep our heads people, Article 7.1 followed promptly by 7.2 of the Lisbon Treat must be applied by the EU to Spain immediately. The EU is massive, give it time.

Spanish fascist Guardia Civil beat firemen with batons, disgraceful behaviour by the fascist thugs.

link to mobile.twitter.com

Today and the oncoming days the people of Catalonia must endure . They have already won. However like any crisis the situation will be used as a tool of propaganda.The correct human response is to condemn Spain’s violent actions and support Catalonia in seeking a Democratic solution to it’s Constitutional question. There are many however on Scotland’s and Britain’s Unionist side who will change opinions on speaking out if the situation can be used as leverage with regards Gibralter/EU and Scotland/EU. Just as many may now see The EU inaction as tantamount to Supporting Spain. The next few days will show us clearer picture.

I hope the handful of men who ordered this sleep well tonight.

Stu, you may want to share some of this with the BBC. They don’t seem to have access to very much on this disgraceful carnage.

The Catalonian government asks the EU’s Claude Junker, to apply Article 7 of the European Union Treaty and suspend Spain as a member state.

Article 7 of the European Union Treaty states,
“Suspension of any Member State that uses military force on its own population.”

Disgraceful scenes, cheered on by Brian Wilson, a man utterly consumed with hatred for the SNP and another International Socialist who secretly despises democracy. If only the Catalans had been Cubans, eh, Brian? Surely time for your ermine.

Waiting for George Galloway to condemn violence against people only wanting to put an X in a box.

Good to see you back commenting, Ruby.

Thanks, Rev, for all the information I can’t access otherwise.

If this had been Ireland pushing for its independence, what stance would Celtic director, Brian Wilson, have adopted?

Finally for now.

Not one word from Britain’s foreign secretary Boris Johnson, on the violent fascist repression going on in Catalonia.

Instead our FS, chooses to focus on how good Saudi Arabia is now, that women have been allowed to drive.

link to mobile.twitter.com

Under European Treaty Article 7 Spain can be sanctioned for using force against its people. There were members of armed forces and special forces involved in the suppression of the Catalan people and there is video evidence of brutality as some of you may have seen today.
“Suspension of any Member State that uses military force on its own population.”
Please email your MEP if you feel strongly that this should be invoked.

Scottish MEP’s to email
ian.hudghton@ep.europa.eu
david.martin@ep.europa.eu
nosheena.mobarik@ep.europa.eu
alyn.smith@ep.europa.eu
cstihlermep@btconnect.com
David.Coburn@davidcoburnmep.com

Fat Candy – The EU is massive, give it time.

Totally agree.

@katsoft says: 1 October, 2017 at 11:33 am:

“… EU and UN must intervene before this gets totally out of control”

Two things, katsoft, It is well out of control already and the first, and main organisation, to get involved is the Council of Europe, it is much bigger than the EU. In fact the EU is one of the Council of Europe’s members.

The reasons these organisations must all take immediate action is quite simple. The first reason being that the Government of Spain is a signatory to them all and is thus bound by those organisations rules they signed up uphold.

A main tenet of all three organisations is the right of any identifiable people to, Self Determination.

As far as Human rights are concerned the freedom of self determination of identifiable peoples is a fundamental rule.

The EU is one of the members of the Council Of Europe and thus the EU member states, including Spain, (Catalonia), UK, (Scotland), and Belgium, (Flanders), all have signed up to the rights of identifiable peoples to self determination.

Today’s events in Catalonia show that the government of Spain are forcibly suppressing the democratic will of the Catalans to hold a referendum on their freedom of Self determination and are thus in direct contravention of the treaties they signed up with via the Council of Europe and the EU.

These organisations are legally bound, by their own laws, to intervene and prevent the actual bloodshed we are witnessing right here on Wings today.

Those of you attempting to communicate with the Spanish Consulate in Edinburgh may wish to make that point to the Spanish Consulate.

Here is a link to the Council of Europe – Click the link at the top of the webpage on Human rights:-

link to coe.int

Copy of a letter I sent today to the Observer.

__________________

To the Editor of the Observer
01/10/17
Dear Sir,

If a week is a long time in politics, it is also true that 7 days is an equally lengthy period for the Observer. 

Last week your editorial commented on the seeming disadvantages of not only the independence referendum to be held the following Sunday in Catalonia, but also the very notion of independence for the region (“This referendum will bring no benefit to Catalonia, Spain or the EU”, the Observer 24.09.17.).

You refer to the Scottish analogy whereby you aver that if there was “a single political force with the parliamentary domination, of, say, the Scottish National party, there would be a persuasive case for holding an independence ballot …”, but as those seeing independence come from an “agglomeration of parties”, then “they have little in common but their espousal of this referendum.” 

Your reasoning defies logic on many grounds. Firstly, the Scottish National Party is not alone in advocating independence for Scotland. If we have learnt anything from the 2014 YES Campaign there, it is precisely that fact: YES embraced Scots from all political parties and none in promoting the independence cause, from all quarters of Scottish society. The latest mandate Nicola Sturgeon has for calling a second independence referendum in Scotland was buttressed by the Scottish Green MSPs. Secondly, notwithstanding these facts, Londoncentric journalists have repeatedly issued the cry that “YES equals the SNP alone” as a way of criticising the movement as being solely a Nationalist vehicle. You too seem to want your cake and eat it. Ultimately, the tone of your piece is one of profound negativity – and a plea for Catalonia not to secede from Spain. (Shades of Better Together, anyone?)

Now, try to square the Observer’s reasoning with a subsequent editorial, a week hence (“The Kurds have fought hard for their values. They deserve our support now”, the Observer, 01.10.17.). There is a deep-seated “yearning” for a Kurdistan we are told, They have the “right” to be self-governing and be “free from interference by foreign powers,” a freedom indeed which is, “unceasing and not to be denied.”

One wonders how the Kurds, “like any people conjoined by ethnic identity, land, language and culture, have an inalienable right to determine their future path, in one direction or another”, whereas Catalans (and doubtless the Scots and the Welsh do not.) I’m sure no ambiguity arises from the definition of the word “any” – it can surely only mean that, no matter what human community sharing the attributes listed, has “an inalienable right” to decide its own affairs and pursue the course of independence and freedom. Or is that “right” only accorded to those who have fought physical, bloody battles for it (such as the Kurds) but not those who pursue freedom through non-violent means (such as the Scots and Catalans)? A highly dangerous premise, I fear. 

Comparing both editorials therefore, one is drawn to the conclusion that independence for the Kurds is “a good thing”, whereas freedom for Catalans can only be “a bad thing”. The fact that the former looks like being achieved through the barrel of a gun, and the latter thwarted by similar weapons, and a seemingly liberal, internationalist British newspaper can encourage the Kurds in their stance whilst denigrating the Catalans, is a worrying indictment of Fleet Street thinking. 

One would be tempted to think that there is a hidden message here to uppity, independence-seeking Celts here, too: the United Kingdom Establishment and its Western European counterpart, doesn’t “do” popular, civilian-based, grassroots democracy.

Yours faithfully,       

Ruth Davidson I seem to remember visiting Spain, and trying to cobble together some anti-independence camaraderie with some Spanish organisation… Can anybody else remember the details? Back in 2013 or 2014 or thereabouts… A little bell ringing says there was political money involved too, but I can’t quite remember…

Anybody recall it?

Barcelona F.C. have just annouced that the match in the game due to start in 10 minutes time will be played behind closed doors and have turned away all those outside waiting to get in.

They have reached this decision after being informed by the more radical sector of supporters that it was their intention to invade the pitch.

However despite the original plan to play in their normal blue and claret strip Barcelona will tonight play in the second strip which of course is the flag of Catalunia.

The visiting team Las Palmas have been ordered by La Liga (the establishment) to wear a jersey which has the Spanish flag on it.

Good grief it´s getting worse!

337 injured by police violence now, and Barca match cancelled.

Al Jazeera has running updates.

Good letter @ Welsh Sion.

Not only am i in shock at the violence today in catalonia , but more importantly i am in shock at the silence of the western world , whose chattering classes and political leaders are not normally slow in condemning human rights and democratic abuse in other countries such as north korea.

CATALONIA THE BRAVE

BBC and Guardian covering it on the websites.

Will give the Guardian its due, their coverage on this has been very good and is constantly being updated. The BBC coverage is rubbish. Do they have any foreign correspondents any more…or even a broadband connection?

And Independent and CNN, euronews with an anti-secession bias very evident.

The undemocratic Spanish authorities should be ashamed of themselves

@Calum McKay says: 1 October, 2017 at 11:37 am:

“Spain’s reaction has guaranteed Catalonia’s freedom!”

Yes, Calum. indeed it has.

“the british can no longer use Spain as any form of blocker or warning to Scottish independence, otherwise they are using a fascist regime to make their point.”

That bit, though, is utter rubbish.

First of all, “Those you speak of are not, “The British”, they are the Westminster Establishment Unionists but do not rule all of Britain.

“The British”, legislations also includes all the peoples of the eight, (yes that’s eight), British legislations.

It includes, The Republic of Ireland, The Westminster de facto parliament of the country of England, The Holyrood Parliament of the country of Scotland, the Parliament of Wales, The Parliament of Northern Ireland and the two Channel Island Bailiwicks and the Isle of Man legislatures. All of them are British.

Furthermore, the Government of Spain HAS NEVER EVER said they will veto Scotland’s claims for independence.

The Westminster propaganda machine has been the only organ to make such stupid claims. First of all their oft quoted source was NOT speaking on behalf of the EU as he was NOT elected as an EU MEP- He was Barroso and was the EC. (European Commissioner), and commissioners are the Civil Servants of the EU and Barroso always made quite clear he was giving a personal opinion.

Moreover Barroso was not even Spanish. He is a former Portuguese Prime Minister and, last time I looked, Portugal was not part of Spain.

He was also the EC, (European Commissionaire for Portugal), who subsequently was chosen as President of the European Commission.

Don’t listen to Westminster Propaganda, Calum, it is usually all lies.

“Can imagine Generalissimo Davidson and the unionist legionnaires defending Scots from such ideas above their alloted station.”

The AP stirrer should know that Davidson has already condemned the police action, and as one of the “unionist legionnaires”, so has Corbyn.

Catalonia has it’s own media – so the Spanish have to use force

But in Scotland WESTMINSTER HAS THE BBC

My donation today brings the anti-BBC funder to less than £200 of the half way mark link to gofundme.com

Have you seen the BBC coverage of this entirely peaceful attempt at Independence ???? Help us deal with the BBC