The less-deserving pro-independence website

Wings Over Scotland

The news is not news

Posted on February 18, 2014 by

So we just got this a few minutes ago (click pic to enlarge):


And now we’re really starting to think a licence-fee avoidance campaign is a good idea.

YouTube takedown notices over copyright infringement are of course an everyday occurrence. But to have one filed over a news broadcast is, as far as we’re aware, unprecedented. There are specific exemptions in copyright law for news reporting, for what are hopefully obvious reasons – journalism would be practically impossible if you weren’t allowed to record and report events without express permission.

We can’t begin to imagine what the BBC is hoping to achieve here. Unless it’s planning a Christmas compilation DVD of Alistair Darling’s Greatest Huffs, it has no intellectual property to legitimately protect. Disseminating news is the entire purpose of news. We’re not even taking traffic away from iPlayer, because as a rule the BBC News channel’s output isn’t available on iPlayer.

There’s little point in contesting the legality of anything, as YouTube have no interest in such matters – they’ll basically just pull anything anyone complains about. As we write the video is still viewable, but probably not for long. We’ll replace the embedded version with a download link when appropriate.

But heavens above, readers. When the state broadcaster tries to actively prevent people from seeing the news, it’s awfully difficult to maintain any last shreds of pretence that it’s a neutral party any more.

EDIT MARCH 7th: YouTube rejects BBC claim, reinstates video.


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    266 to “The news is not news”

    1. Aldo says:

      It’s gone now..

    2. AllyPally says:

      Appeal under Fair Dealing. You are quoting for reasons of journalism. Several colleagues in TV/video industries have won this sort of copyfight.

      Have at them!

    3. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It’s gone now..”

      Still plays for me on the Wings page.

    4. Cindie says:

      Still playing for me too

    5. Jr Ewen says:

      Is there a wings utube channel?

    6. Nick Heller says:

      I’ve looked it up but “There’ll be no more news” doesn’t appear in the Big Book of Scares. It’ll probably be in the next edition though.

    7. rabb says:

      As a licence payer and and UK citizen you technically own all content produced by the BBC.

      I would email them back and claim ownership on that basis.

    8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Appeal under Fair Dealing.”

      Have done.

    9. rab_the_doubter says:

      Ive seen countless newsclips on facebook but I dont recall anyone ever being asked to take down. This is shameful. Are there any friendly MP’s who could raise this as an issue. This is absolute censorship no other explanation.
      Ive just finished my latest complaint to the BBC re their coverage but it looks like ive got another to do.

    10. patronsaintofcats says:

      Oh ffs

    11. Marcia says:

      it has gone

    12. muttley79 says:

      WTF are these clowns at the BBC thinking of? It was their own interview! How many BBC clips are on Youtube? Must be loads.

    13. Appleby says:

      A new low. It shows not only how desperate the unionists are getting but that the BBC is an out and out unionist propaganda machine and not even hiding it now. The British Pravda. We need to make sure people realise what they are being served and more importantly the kind of people serving it up.

      Are Vimeo or other sites an option for you?

    14. cynicalHighlander says:

      Snowden wins! Well done, Scotland. Thank you, Glasgow. You are brilliant, students of Glasgow. He is an international icon and now he is your rector. Another Mandela moment. We can be different. We can stand up and be counted. We are the good guys.

    15. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Then they come to fight you.

    16. Jim says:

      More shocking behaviour by the BBC.

      Hereunto,I’ve held the view that we will be rid of the BBC after a yes vote with the establishment of a Scottish state broadcaster or we should have a mass campaign of non-payment of the licence fee in the event of a No vote.

      Such a campaign would be very popular for people all over the UK in these cash-strapped times.

    17. titchyboy85 says:

      Ma mate FMQ Unofficial uploaded the same interview with no dramas. Someone seriously doesn’t like you mate.

    18. Shiehallion! Shiehallion! says:

      In denial.

    19. Dan Huil says:

      Very serious development. Surely there must be someone of integrity in the BBC who is willing to go public with the truth behind such undemocratic tactics.

    20. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Ma mate FMQ Unofficial uploaded the same interview with no dramas.”

      Where? I don’t see it:

    21. Robbie says:

      Bullying Bastard Corporation.

    22. Kevin says:

      Wow. I am a license payer who supports independence. Where am I being represented here if the supposedly impartial state broadcaster attempts censure in this way? Why should I pay a license fee which is effectively propping up the no campaign? Sorry rant over…

    23. TheGreatBaldo says:

      Keep this up Rev and your a stick on for Glasgow Uni Rector after Snowden 🙂

    24. Misteralz says:

      Reuffen sie ein taxi, bitte!

    25. liz says:

      This is an attack on free speech.

      They are definitely out to shut you up.

      They must have someone watching your site closely.
      Hopefully the DOSS attacks can be stopped soon.

      O/T – there has been a step-up by union supporters on all blogs, even OBEwan at the Herald is getting a lot of up-ticks from ‘guests’.

      There was someone on here on a previous thread trying to suggest your were a unionist plant – so they will try to discredit you by passing misinformation

      O/T, again- Just watched Broon’s walk-out but he will have worried folk at that meeting – you could see a lot of frowning faces.

      The man’s a disgrace to himself, to us and to the people he is trying to scare with his lies.

    26. David says:

      I could go through Youtube and easily find millions of BBC clips that probably should be copyright protected to ensure revenue is protected for the benefit of the license-payer.

      There is however no reason to remove this news article.

      Shame on the BBC. I’m never paying my license fee again.

    27. themadmurph says:

      I guess we are now in a state of war! The BBC is the government’s propaganda machine. Complicit are the newspapers and the establishment.

      This could become a long dirty fight!

    28. Never mind that one. What about Reporting Scotland tonight. STILL trailing the Barbarossa story from the weekend. My understanding is that it was denied by two senior ladies from Europe. Yet there it is with the full weight of BBC Scotland behind it. This is a disgrace by any standards. How can these people just stand there and peddle stories which they must know are lies. Put it this way, if they do not they must have there heads up somewhere dark for quite a while.

    29. Steven.B says:

      Would it be paranoia to say that another youtube with over 10,000 videos with numerous of them being news broadcasts still has their BBC news videos available?

      Funnily enough one if them is the exact same video that you had uploaded.

      Once could argue there is a hidden agenda but I’m guessing we can chalk this one down to being paranoid.

    30. By the way your site is slow tonight are the authorities getting cross. Again?

    31. HandandShrimp says:

      I don’t think this is the BBC I think this is the BBC responding to complaints from Mr Hissy Fits

      By fuck this site terrifies the shite out of them.

      This is good 🙂

    32. You’d think the BBC, of all people, would know what happens when they ban things. I haven’t seen the video (it has been taken down now) and to be honest I probably wouldn’t have gotten around to watching it. But now it’s been banned I simply have to watch it.

      How many more people will want to watch it simply because it’s been banned?

    33. Mealer says:

      Aye.they tried bullying the chap at UWS.That didn’t work either.

    34. Flower of Scotland says:

      BBC are pathetic . Used to be regarded as very fair , but now every country in the world where there is trouble or a fight for Independence is supported by the BBC but NOT Scotland ! Yet we help pay their wages ! They are on the long road to oblivion !

    35. chicmac says:

      If Darling was the subject of the story and only a short clip was used then I think that possibly might come under ‘fair use’. Not an expert on this by any means though.

    36. PictishSoldier says:

      “But hey, we paid for the video-capture software so we might as well get some value out of it.”

      I have a feeling your comment was a little too tempting for a spiteful mind.

    37. Delia says:

      Is it possible to comment just now?

    38. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Once could argue there is a hidden agenda but I’m guessing we can chalk this one down to being paranoid.”

      So why this, out of the thousands of BBC clips with actual commercial value that haven’t had takedown notices?

      (Have replaced the video in the story with that alternative version.)

    39. Delia says:

      Oops, perhaps I should have refreshed the page!

    40. titchyboy85 says:

      My bad Rev, been through ma e-mail and it was the Jon Snow interview with Darling, not the BBC one. Sorry.

    41. Cindie says:

      gone – mind you, so have the comments again. You’ve really pissed someone off big style Rev. Well done!

    42. gerry parker says:

      Is the Scottish Government referendum site also under attack?
      a couple of recent articles and postings have disappeared.

    43. Steven.B says:

      “So why this, out of the thousands of BBC clips with actual commercial value that haven’t had takedown notices?”

      It might not necessarily have been BBC who stumbled upon it but more than likely some lovely person from the other side of the argument who might have pointed it out to them. I was being slightly sarcastic in my approach but I think we can both agree it does sort of stand out as a defining moment.

    44. Cindie says:

      BTW, whilst I can still see you all, here’s a link to a FB page called ‘Exposing anti-independence bias on the BBC’ better go like them quickly, whilst they’re still there

    45. jpfife says:

      You can’t copyright facts. Copyright is meant to cover creative expression. I’m constantly surprised that companies and people who should know better try and copyright things which were never really intended to be copyrighted, and even more surprised that they get away with it.

    46. patronsaintofcats says:

      Streisand Effect

    47. Colin young says:

      No tv means no peacetime propaganda pumped into the house.
      Have not paid for licence since Iraq i have internet now so no tv for ten years
      TV was removed from the house all that lying,jingoism,bunting,poor quality so called entertainment ugh it’s vile
      The Iraq war was the decisive factor ..

      I voted last indy vote and was crushed at the result but i think this time will be different,mainly because of the internet.

    48. lochside says:

      I’m afraid that it’s way past time for the necessity of on-going big demonstrations outside Pacific Quay. I got closed down on Newsnet Scotland for urging this, as did others over two years ago.

      I was back on two weeks ago asking them to back direct action as there are no big marches planned prior to Ref. Day. Again, Stalinists that they are, my comments never appeared.

      Well, no revolution really got going without massed demos. I’m afraid. And last weekend, as I was counting votes for the Ref. on behalf of YES, I had to listen to dumb ‘No’ voters castigating AS in the vilest terms.(Still counted more yesses however, but not enough).

      When challenged about how they felt about Gideon and Cameron, I got the ‘oh ah hate them worse’. But I got a clear impression that a lot of these people aren’t joining up the dots.

      That’s why I think the hierarchy of SNP and Yes should be directly challenging BBC SCOTLAND and their barefaced lies outside the Citadel of Untruth, where the rest of the world’s media can see them for the stinking corrupt glovepuppets they really are.

      Let’s not lose the vote because of embarrassment at picketing propagandists.

    49. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      i thought the licence payers owned the bbc?

    50. James123 says:

      Make no bones about it, this is a direct attack by the BBC on this website. There are literally thousands of clips from BBC news programmes on Youtube and I have never come across one being deleted.

      BTW Stu even supplying a link to copyright material can be dangerous, so be careful, we know what these bastards are capable of.

    51. Wayne says:

      It seems bizarre to me really not least because you can go to Youtube and find thousands of clips from BBC news and TV generally.

      The decision to target Wings has nothing to do with copyright that is for sure.

      Of course BBC are probably entitled to do this, but it seems counter-intuitive for a news channel to try and prevent access to the news, not least when the content is not accessible to users on iplayer.

      BBC news does have its own Youtube channel, but there is no sign of a blanket policy of objecting to BBC news content uploaded. A quick search puts scorn to that idea.

    52. Breastplate says:

      Does YouTube have a competitor that could be used instead?

    53. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      It’s 7.32 pm 18th Feb.

      Had to re-input name and email. There is meant to be 24 posts on this thread, and I can see none.

      The post is about the BBC complaining to youtube about a news clip, demanding it be taken down.

      I’m both slightly scared and elated.

      Scared? The pretence of democracy seemed so real when I was young; then CND socialists became Lords…


      ‘Then they fight you, then you win’.

    54. G. Campbell says:

      The BBC has failed in an attempt to get a critical radio clip removed from YouTube.

      The corporation requested that the video website remove the audio, uploaded by Bristol radio station BCFM, for breach of copyright.

      YouTube initially took it down but reinstated it when Gosling made a counter notification. The BBC was told that YouTube does not adjudicate on copyright infringement disputes unless put on notice that legal proceedings have been commenced.

      A BBC spokesperson told Press Gazette that its copyright complaint has not been retracted but that the corporation has decided not to commence infringement proceedings.

    55. BBC (Scotland) is irrelvant to Scotland.

      I speak as a former BBC television executive.

      What would you like to know, fellow travellers?

    56. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      Or it’s just an IT cock up.

      Lacks something though…

    57. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It might not necessarily have been BBC who stumbled upon it but more than likely some lovely person from the other side of the argument who might have pointed it out to them.”

      The complaint is explicitly from BBC News.

    58. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      @ Grouse Beater

      Were you the Grouse Beater who used to post on the Scotsman?

      Is Glenn Campbell gay?


    59. Edward says:

      Ah but it could be argued that Darling was being ‘creative’ with the truth and his ‘expressions’ were priceless 😉

    60. muttley79 says:

      @Grouse Beater

      Don’t take this the wrong way, but how are we supposed to know you are what you are over the internet?

    61. Dcanmore says:

      Hi Rev, maybe putting this in the YouTube description box will help …

      I do not own this video.

      Copyright Disclaimer: Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for fair use for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.”

    62. Lanarkist says:

      The news will not be televised, the revolution will now be on-line!

    63. Edward says:

      Grouse beater – come out the anonymity closet and reveal who you are, or all these 50 to 60 somethings are going go into apoplexy trying to figure out who you really are and we will end up with wasted columns of guesses 😉

    64. HandandShrimp says:

      It was a news clip FFS! These are youtubed around the world. Every news channel allows it. It is what news is for. Why have an interview then hide it. It has no commercial value. It isn’t a song or a film or a book.

      It will be the same saddos that tried to ban the cheery Yes video making fun of all the scare stories only they will have got someone to phone the BBC to get them to complain officially.

      In the process they have made themselves look like total losers.

    65. iain taylor (not that one) says:

      I haven’t had a TV licence for 4 years now.

      C’mon & join the club.

      Don’t buy newspapers either.

    66. @Muttley79

      A very good point, since I use anonymity to “protect the innocent,” my website too: grousebeater.wordpress

      The answer is, by the quality and insight provided in replies to questions about BBC (Scotland) and BBC London, offering information only an insider could acquire.

      How does a magistrate judge a witness is telling the truth or lying? By acquiring a sixth sense from court experience plus a personal knowledge of human nature. Or, closer to home, the television assistant in the store convinces you he knows what he’s talking about and giving good advice – a mixture of erudition, experience, and integrity.

    67. FMQUnofficial says:

      I actually run 3 YouTube channels nowadays to be cautious of dealings such as this. This is the first time I’ve seen the BBC do this in relation to political content regarding the referendum (On YouTube anyways)

      I have many hours of BBC generated content which I’ve been uploading for up to 2 years now, every last upload has been free of copyright claims. Typically DRM is non existent on BBC content.

      For me this is non coincidental. That out of the vast pickings of Scottish independence related content uploaded in every corner of YouTube. Your video alone just happened to be the only one that gets popped.

      Something tells me you were more than ‘unlucky’ for this to have happened.

    68. Alexicon says:

      I had a visit from one of their hench men 16 days ago. My wife inenvertanly left the adjoining door open with the tv, which was on, in full view.
      I wasn’t in and she crumbled to his questioning.
      I still won’t pay their propaganda tax, so I’m awaiting the relevant letter.
      For the record I’m just about speaking to the wife.


      About time we had a truthful article from the American press.

    69. Chris says:

      If you don’t watch anything “live” then you don’t have to pay the license fee. I phoned them up to check, when I moved house. My tv isn’t tuned in to anything, and the only thing it’s connected to is the PS3 for Netflix, iPlayer, blu-ray, and the odd game. So I don’t pay the tax.

      Whenever I see an article about the bbc’s antics in this debate, I feel a little more justified for not doing so 🙂

    70. patronsaintofcats says:

      @Grouse Beater – if you are for real, then by all means it’s past time to spill your guts on the inside story of BBC Scotland. Write a guest column for this blog. The BBCs disgraceful lack of respect for the license payer is absolutely shocking in a democracy. I’ve been on the fence for awhile, but this has torn it for me. Today is the day I cancel my license fee. I have been supportive of arts and culture/education output but even there we are let down in Scotland. I wish a mass non-payment movement could be formally launched but I can’t wait for it to happen.

      BBC, GTF

    71. hellcat says:

      @Grouse Beater – with your inside knowledge, what would be the best way to cancel my TV licence, and make sure it was known it was out of protest (well, also having not watched a live TV broadcast for months, but I probably would have kept paying)?

      Also, who exactly within the BBC would be the one pulling the strings behind something like this? Department or office if you don’t want to name names! Who would be the best person or organisation to report these incidents to, someone who would have the most clout over the BBC that they may actually be afraid of/listen to?

    72. handclapping says:

      How many hours of “News” does the BBC produce each day? How many minutes of “News” was the clip? What proportion of a copyright product may be used as fair dealing?

    73. KeefYes2014 says:

      And now we’re really starting to think a licence-fee boycott campaign is a good idea.

      Good idea. CAN pay WON’T pay.

    74. Macart says:

      Oh Jeez, that’s grim.

      Wonder if unionist sites use similar vids and if they have been likewise warned?

    75. chicmac says:

      OT Great piece by Cath Ferguson, who has contributed to WOS before, over on Bella.

    76. Murray McCallum says:

      gerry parker
      Is the Scottish Government referendum site also under attack?
      a couple of recent articles and postings have disappeared.

      Was thinking the exact same thing. Similar issues to that on Wings.

    77. I didn’t bother to watch the video because I saw Darling’s frothings when broadcast.

      I got to thinking he was over-wrought, shrill, trying hard to talk over the interviewer’s reasonable questions.

      He has a behavioural trick used to deflect the listeners concentration from the shallowness and repetition of his utterances – causing us to remember only the empty slogans he spouts:

      Those attentuated eyebrows: two hairy caterpillars fighting over the last leaf.

    78. heedtracker says:

      Klassy. Mind you this the BBC that gives its execs over a hundred grand moving expenses alone.

    79. TJenny says:


    80. @Patronsaintofcats

      Have a read of my blogsite – I’ve something to say about Braveheart which gives an indication drama and art are my specialisms. I’d be honored if Wings published even an extract of any of my essay’s to date … I’m fine tuning another now on the Scot depicted as a “foreigner.”

    81. patronsaintofcats says:

      @Grouse Beater your wordpress web addy is not found. Link?

    82. Roll_On_2014 says:

      BBC = Crap

    83. RoughMan says:

      I don’t believe there have been no comments since 19.46, but I’m not getting them, nothing re-loading to update.

    84. RoughMan says:

      Ah, that’s how to do it, make a post 🙂

    85. Papadocx says:

      Think the state security services are co-ordinating and piloting the HMG/BT /BBC/MSM propaganda and disinformation war against its own people. Must be Nice to live in a free democratic country, I would like to try it. The state has been forced into exposing its dirty hands due to the SNP brining the referendum into the open and exposing the Westminster con trick that has been ongoing for 300 years. It’s like the the wee boy in the kings new clothes. We have seen the sham for what it is and they are scared, because the word is spreading.

      Alex Salmond had better be very careful these thugs don’t arrange an accident for him, I’m dead serious here. Wings and all the other indy web sites will be kept under surveillance and messed about with (GCHQ). These people have a system to protect at all costs, nothing is beyond them or beneath them.

      THEY ARE FRIGHTENED, VERY FRIGHTENED! A scared animal will attack!

    86. crisiscult says:

      I’m another non payer of BBC licence. I am Spartacus.

    87. liz says:

      RoughMan – you can also update by logging in on quarentine and just say anything,

    88. RoughMan says:

      Thanx liz, but no comprendo; quarantine?

    89. Macart says:

      That’s a cracker chicmac.


    90. @Helcat

      The weakest link is Ken MacQuarrie, the current director of BBC (Scotland), “Scotland” placed in parenthesis to denote it is an outpost of BBC London, and over-ruled by it. He is a “safe pair of hands” for BBC London.

      He rose from the lowly ranks of head of Gaelic programmes, BBC Educational Radio, (Scotland) back in the day when BBC actually fulfilled its obligation to provide that role to us and our culture, but closed down the department, and – if you remember – sold off its Queen Street administration offices, and its site in Edinburgh’s Leith Walk (now a cinema complex) for millions having got it as a gift from Edinburgh’s city council as an incentive to create their new home there in the capital.

      It was the site destined to serve the new Parliament and Scotland’s new democracy. Instead BBC made millions and skedaddled off to Glasgow.

      Don’t forget recent history: two previous controllers of BBC Scotland were removed for daring to suggest more autonomy for BBC Scotland – Milne and Hetherington.

      We can assume a call went in to MacQuarrie from Darling’s camp, MacQuarrie then instructing an executive in the legal department to contact YouTube.

    91. Indy_Scot says:

      Clearly they see you as a major threat to their propaganda campaign. I am no expert on such matters, but have they any legal grounds to individually target one account without removing all BBC content from Youtube.

    92. RoughMan says:

      @ liz

      found it thanx 🙂

    93. @ Patronsainstofcats:

      Stick grousebeater.wordpress in Google search box.

    94. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It might not necessarily have been BBC who stumbled upon it but more than likely some lovely person from the other side of the argument who might have pointed it out to them.”

      The complaint is explicitly from BBC News.

      Is there a difference as they are “All in it together”?

    95. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “It might not necessarily have been BBC who stumbled upon it but more than likely some lovely person from the other side of the argument who might have pointed it out to them.”

      The complaint is explicitly from BBC News.

      Is there a difference as they are “All in it together”?

    96. cynicalHighlander says:

      You’ll maybe remove one of those posts above as email not recognized!

    97. Ally Maciver says:

      Surely there are several thousand other examples of BBC news items uploaded to youtube that haven’t been subject to this kind of censorship? In which case we have to wonder why this one is an issue……

    98. McDuff says:

      Time to have a seriously large demonstration outside Pacific Quay.

    99. liz says:

      @RoughMan – at the bottom of the blog roll on the RHS under zany comic relief there is a quarantine site.
      Click on log in and say whatever.

    100. Alexandra-M- says:

      Makes me glad I no longer pay the license fee. I am in utter disbelief that the BBC have done this when thousands of similar videos go untouched.

    101. liz says:

      @RoughMan – sorry cross over due to missing comments.

    102. Indy_Scot says:

      I know I could be wrong, but if my understanding of this situation is what I think it is, then this is far too big just to be ignored.

    103. john king says:

      Careful Stu, dont lets those bastards get you for incitement.

    104. Thepnr says:

      Shutting down any kind of resemblence to free speech in this kleptocracy of ours is the last straw for me.

      Been swithering about the TV licence issue for a while but my mind is now made up. Had to get the permission from the missus of course but she was all for it.

      Until Scotland gains Independence and has its own broadcaster I will never pay another propaganda tax.

      Another spectacular own goal by the kleptocrats who will stop at nothing to protect their own wealth and privilege even if it means stirring up hatred rather than love for Scotland in the rUK.

      I’m extremely pissed with this tonight, everything I believed about Britain is being destroyed and dismantled. I cannot live with these people anymore.

      It’s a shame that the kleptocrats will poison the mind of the ordinary person in pursuit of keeping their place. we will just have to deal with that.

      Thick as fuck, is what they are. Their arrogance and stupidity will be their downfall. Word of mouth is the only way. Never again by shy about telling it how it is. I’ll now work 10 times harder just to have a REAL DEMOCRACY and a constitution that can prevent anything like these attacks on the people ever happening again.

      Thats why they are shitting themselves. This site has to survive and if you need to consult experts to ensure that then I believe it should be done. We who believe in the truth being shared will fund it.

    105. patronsaintofcats says:

      @Grouse Beater not found on other search engines, weird. I got it on Google. Thx…

    106. KOF says:

      “Freedom of information is the foundation of any democracy.”

      A quote from Reporters Without Borders. Send them an email Rev. As you say in the article, “When the state broadcaster tries to actively prevent people from seeing the news, it’s awfully difficult to maintain any last shreds of pretence that it’s a neutral party any more.”

    107. @thepnr

      Swithering a good Scots word: you know the decision, just not when to take it.

      Dithering (English): you know not which decision to take.

    108. muttley79 says:

      Richard Dastardly.

    109. Look Skye Walker says:

      Lord Jones calls in a favour from an old school chum?

    110. heraldnomore says:


    111. Jim says:

      Great link Marcia/Alexicon

      Shared it on facebook already. A number of international sources have been critical of London.

      I’m compiling my own complaint to the BBC about a radio broadcast yesterday. We do need a big demo outside Pacific Quay. I’m game.

    112. jim mitchell says:

      How scared they must be!

    113. John H. says:

      Thanks Marcia for the link to the Forbes article. It shows us that people across the world are watching the behaviour of UK politicians and media. It’s obvious that they don’t like what they see.

    114. Tony Little says:

      Unbelievable. I am new to this twitter stuff, how do you link this article in a tweet? I want to post

    115. muttley79 says:


      “Oh Jeez, that’s grim.

      Wonder if unionist sites use similar vids and if they have been likewise warned?”

      This is getting like 1984 in real time! 😀 😀

    116. Edward says:

      Just observed something interesting
      Posting on Facebook STV News item on Gordon Brown
      There seems to be a small clique of unionists giving it large and trying to dictate (and yes your friend and mine Gerry Aberdeen is at his mental worse)
      But something else has happened some of these clowns seem more interested in where I am. One , a Mark Graham (who shows he is with the Ministry of defence) provided the following comment “I take it that you are so unhappy in Berkshire Edward Barbour, that you plan to move back to Scotland as soon as possible” Thing is he must have really gone into my facebook details in great detail as I checked on the security settings and it doesn’t state where I am ,, just my hometown which is Edinburgh. Now why on earth would someone waste so much time delving into someone’s profile?

    117. heedtracker says:

      It’s still playable in chrome so something’s not right.

    118. John Gibson says:

      “Were you the Grouse Beater who used to post on the Scotsman?

      Is Glenn Campbell gay?


      Conan! the funniest comment I’ve seen in weeks. Bits of snus all over my screen. Brilliant.

    119. theycan'tbeserious says:

      I do not pay the license fee because of the bbc’s unionist propaganda and lack of respect for Scotland and it’s people. This organisation have been lying to us for many years and we have been paying them to do it. Well no more and I urge you to stop paying for this Westminster propaganda machine whose sole intention is to keep us, as a nation, in chains whilst raping our countries natural wealth and not only our, but our children’s and our grandchildren’s inheritance. How can you continue fund this westminster institution?

    120. Dal Riata says:

      “We have received copyright complaints…”

      So, the YouTube must, as they say, “… have received copyright complaint(s)”…

      From whom?

      Alistair Darling? Whatever many of us think about him, I don’t believe he would complain about a pro-independence website showing his performance on national television, even if he wasn’t happy about it… Or would he? Surely not. Going by the way Darling has been looking and acting increasingly stressed recently, it is possible, though unlikely.

      The Better Together campaign? More likely than Darling doing so on his own initiative. Desperate people do desperate things. But why would they bother over this one certain video clip?

      Other pro-unionists? Possibly, but, again, why bother?

      The BBC itself? Surely not. They wouldn’t be that stupid, would they? Um… would they?

      The plot thickens.

      And “copyright”? What copyright?

    121. theycan'tbeserious says:

      last line should read “funding this….” soz.

    122. @John Gibson

      I played tag with the redoubtable Heedtracker on the Guardian website until it got saturated day in, day out by BNP, EDL, Colonel Blimps shouting, “Salmond is a fat liar,” and, “It’s MY country you’re breaking up” inane trolls – (meaning the UK is only England, not two countries) all happily welcomed by the “liberal” Guardian in the spirit of good natured banter.

    123. patronsaintofcats says:


    124. john king says:

      Grousebeaters site is there alright writing style is very reminiscent of Derek Batemans though.

    125. Edward says:

      Just off the bat, would the initials for Grouse Beater be the same initials of the actual BBC person ‘G B’ 😉

    126. kininvie says:

      Continuing food theme: Morrisons ready meal (been a long day)

    127. @John King

      I’ve no idea who Derek Batemans is.

      I write from my own experience which began as a professional in the arts and then a teacher in the east end of Glasgow witnessing first-hand the poverty Labour councillors and politicians thought worth preserving as the best motivation to keep their constituents voting for them in the hope of better things.

    128. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      I would be up for a demo at Pacific Quay.

      Or a vigil at Pacific Quay.

      Or a pop-up vigil at Pacific Quay.

    129. john king says:

      “Just off the bat, would the initials for Grouse Beater be the same initials of the actual BBC person ‘G B’ ”

      Gordon Brewer?

    130. crisiscult says:

      Further to comments about foreign media coverage, I’m told that Russian tv news covering Scottish independence has become more common and is neutral to generally positive. Can provide a bit more detail should anyone be particularly interested but makes me think that if Cameron and Putin did have a chat as reported in the Herald, it hasn’t been too successful, or at least so far.

    131. john king says:

      Let me get this right Grouse Beater, you are a BBC executive and you don’t know who Derek Batman is?

    132. kininvie says:

      @Tony Little

      It’s easy. Just copy the Wings address for this article, go to Twitter, write ‘Rev Stu slaps BT’ or some such and then paste the link

    133. Patrick Harvey getting lots of applause on BBC 2 Referendum Debate – right now…

    134. Dal Riata says:

      @Grouse Beater

      Ah, it is yourself! I left a post for you a while back on another thread asking if you were one and the same with the Grouse Beater on CiF which you must have missed. Never mind. Always enjoyed your posts on CiF so good to see you here.

      I’m on the CiF naughty-step – again- at the moment. I’ve managed to sneak the odd post in under the moderator radar there, but the place has gone to hell in a handcart recently, inundated by frothing trolls and UKIP loons so I’m not sure if I can even be arsed visiting there anymore.

      The ‘liberal’ Guardian becoming ever more embarrassing and virulent in its support of the Establishment – even praising Osborne’s speech the other day FFS! – is something to behold right enough!

    135. Andy-B says:

      Unbelievable, has this not set some kind of president, with regards to bias of the BBC, under the guise of infringement and copyright.

      This seems like a direct attack on Wings by a national broadcaster, and by association, an attack on the Scottish people’s freedom of information.

    136. Robert Louis says:

      At his sermon from mount Olympus in Londinium, Englandshire, David feartie Cameron did state, ‘we must do “whatever it takes” to prevent Scottish independence.

      I guess he really meant it, legal or not. Let’s all just stop thinking we actually live in a democracy.

      The whole world needs to know what London and their Scottish Labour party lapdugs are doing to Scotland.

    137. scottish_skier says:


    138. @ Dal Riata

      Hi Dal

      Good to hear from you again! I remember you.

      I decided opening my own website avoided sqandering empiral evidence on a newspaper with a brutal editorial that aims to crush democracy in Scotland.

    139. The Rough Bounds says:

      One or two posters above are congratulating Glasgow Uni on electing Edward Snowden as their rector.

      Sorry guys but I disagree. Edward Snowden can do nothing in the way of representing students as he is in Russia.

      Glasgow students are fond of playing to the Gallery, eg. electing Winnie Mandela as their rector. As I understand it Ms. Mandela is an unrepentant terrorist.The South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission found her ”politically and morally accountable for the gross violations of human rights”, and responsible for the murder, torture, abduction and assault of men, women and children.

      The students ought to have elected Scottish writer Alan Bisset. He may not have hit the headlines like Mandela and Snowden, but he would have been in a far better position to represent the students. And wasn’t it the students in Glasgow university that had an ‘election’ last year and voted No to Scottish independence by a large majority?

    140. Captain Caveman says:

      Well, I’m with you all on this one; looks to me like suppression of free speech? (Plus you know, a takedown of a BBC News clip? Seems crazy and likely counterproductive to me, not least ’cause you’ve just replaced it with relative ease anyway).

    141. … Empirical … am watching tv’s Referendum Debate simultaneously as typing.

    142. Peter Macbeastie says:

      The BBC have reached the point where they no longer bother about what people say about them, or what they do, as the first point of contact for all complaints about the BBC is? Oh yes; send your complaints to the BBC.

      If the BBC are not biased I am not forty years old, slightly overweight and balding. Sadly, I am all of those things, so I can only assume the BBC are guilty as accused. The difference is I am trying to do something about my less than attractive features, namely the beer belly, by a combination of sensible eating, more exercise and less beer. The last of those hurts more than the others, believe me.

      The BBC’s less than attractive features are merely getting less and less attractive with every new issue of compliant unionist propaganda or heavy handed censorship.

      The contributors to WoS are doing a great job spreading the word as well. And because you do so in a calm, sensible manner without ranting about it (like I’m prone to doing) you are immensely harder to ignore.

    143. Edward says:

      Wait a minute, Grouse Beater doesn’t know who Derek Bateman is? I find that strange. BBC Scotland isn’t THAT big

    144. HandandShrimp says:

      I see that Jenny Marra says that the rest of the UK won’t love us because we rejected them.

      Who is Jenny Marra btw?

    145. Gavin Barrie (Jammach) says:

      Oh excellent. I’m one of several Indyref folks speaking at Mossblown tmrw, covering the gaps in truth and honesty the BBC are guilty of in the Independence debate. I’ll add this to my list.

    146. Krackerman says:

      Just watching BBC2 referendum – Jenny Marra is embarrassing to watch…. good audience though more Pro-Indy than I’d though the BBC would allow….

    147. Robert Louis says:

      Perhaps the video has been taken down, because Darling really is ‘yesterday’s man’.

    148. Look Skye Walker says:

      (Lord)Darling’s favourite verse of the National Anthem:

      Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
      May by thy mighty aid,
      Victory bring.
      May he sedition hush,
      and like a torrent rush,
      Rebellious Scots to crush,
      God save the Queen.

    149. @John King

      Was a BBC executive – went on to better things. George Orwell described the BBC correctly from his time there. Arriving there in at the top, I was used to being surrounded by people enthusiastic for the project. In the BBC I was surrounded by people there for the promotion and quick to conform. Also, it was clear the corporation was under the control of BBC London, as is is now but more so, anything it does can be vetoed by BBC London.

    150. G H Graham says:

      My money is on a Better Together junior staff volunteer who spends hours each day wanking in front of a ‘flickering’ monitor looking for “incriminating evidence”.

      When they find material considered damaging to themselves, they glumly report it up the dreary chain of negativity until some grim reaper in the office gets wind of it. They then reach out to their misery consultant inside the anxious corridors of the BBC with a phone call or an email.

      This baseless complaint is processed through a fact reducing mangle by someone grinding away in the legal office who then regurgitates the complaint as a serious copyright infringement.

      This is then received by a YouTube IT administrator (probably another volunteer who spends most of their day wanking in front of a ‘flickering’ monitor) who assumes that any complaint received by the BBC, must mean that someone knows what they are talking about with regards to copyright law.

      If your use is fair, it is not an infringement of copyright, even if it is without the authorization of the copyright holder. Fair use is especially important to protect uses a copyright holder would not approve, such as criticism or parodies. See Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, 510 US 569 (1994).

      In summary then, screw the BBC. They have no case.

    151. john king says:

      “Going by the way Darling has been looking and acting increasingly stressed recently, it is possible, though unlikely.”

      Couple that with Browns bizarre ending of the interveiw with the STV reporter in Lochgelly this afternoon and it would seem the better together mob are in some sort of meltdown.

    152. Sandra says:


      but the BT have this BBC newsbroadcast on thier facebook page

      did they get a notice to remove it?

    153. HandandShrimp says:

      The Rough Bounds

      The issue of spying and control of information and media is very pertinent to modern life (and this thread actually). I can understand why the students made a point with regards Snowden. If students don’t protest then there is an ailment in the soul of our youth. If you can’t be idealistic when you are young you never will be.

      Alan Bisset would make an excellent rector and most likely will at some point.

    154. Edward says:

      Just dipped into the Border debate and taxation comes up regards a Scandinavian welfare system. So people say Scandinavian Taxes are the highest in the world. BUT what people don’t grasp is average pay is also high for example Norwegian average pay is THREE times what the earnings are in the UK!

    155. john king says:

      I seem to remember your comments on the telegraph you may know me as jdman , I suppose you’ll know Conan the barbarian as well?

    156. NorthBrit says:


      Can you spell check your article of Trolls and Polls? It looks as though a spell checker’s messed it up. E.g. Alec Salmon.

    157. @Edward

      Doesn’t matter what country Scots cite as a fine example of a functioning society it gets belittled and ridiculed by the colonial mindset that says only British (meaning English) is civilised.

    158. Colin young says:

      A tribute to the BBC.

    159. Edward says:

      I get really hacked of with people like Jenny Marra talking about Scandinavian welfare requiring high taxes.
      Norwegians pay high tax because they can afford to pay high tax!
      Taxation is always based on average earnings. You will not find anyone poor in Norway

    160. Jon Gray says:

      I’ve been saying this for a while now, I think we should have a boycot of the licence fee I’m willing to cancel the DD tomorrow if I thought we could get some welly behind this

    161. @Northbrit

      Don’t use spell check – but slip fixed. Thanks for reading the essay whatever your opinion.

    162. Fiona says:

      High welfare does mean high tax. Tax is not a boo word, though by now most mainstream commentators believe that it is

      Without high welfare and high tax how do people imagine they will deal with it when they are ill or old or disabled or need an education for their children; they going to pay for all of that out of their individual earnings? In a pig’s eye. Presumably none of then ever take out insurance for anything because who needs to spread risk and make economies of scale?

    163. cynicalHighlander says:

      Fundraiser to replenish eyebrow mascara supplies for AD will sort the beeb.

      Valid email probs again

    164. alexicon says:


      What they also don’t realise is that Uk citizens have the highest tax burden in the developed world.
      Even higher than the Scandinavians.

    165. call me dave says:

      BBC referendum debate just finished. Harvie & Hosie did well in a mixed audience. No damage done and probably some inroads made in the NO support plenty YES support there too. However a few dedicated NO’s who will never alter.


      Ruthie “don’t believe everything you read in the papers”

      Aye right!

    166. Arabs for Independence says:

      Tax is about 35% here in Norway. Wages are about double maybe more. Drink and food expensive but electrical goods about same as Scotland.

    167. johnnypict says:

      Then they fight you!

    168. Paul Kelly says:

      Said it before and i’ll say it again…PROTEST, big one Pacific Quay,force them to headline Reporting Porkies with their own bias.

    169. NorthBrit says:


      Content’s very good. But there’s quite a few typos and I’m a pedant.

      Would be happy to proof read if you’d like. RevStu has my contacts so could forward an e-mail.

    170. Mosstrooper says:

      Flipper’s fury still there for me

    171. @Call Me Dave

      Ruthie “don’t believe everything you read in the papers”

      Yes, I got the irony of that remark and joined in with the audience’s laughter.

    172. George England says:

      The BBC is a disgrace the blatant bias is appalling, as an English man i wish you all the luck gaining your independence you deserve it, Scotland is a great rich nation vote YES!

    173. Betty Boop says:

      Apologies if anyone has already said something similar (haven’t had time to read most of the posts), but, I thought it was possible to have videos re-instated on Youtube if they are in the public interest. A similar action occurred with the Wright Stuff programme featuring the charming Katie Hopkins when they decided to “cover” independence.

    174. rab_the_doubter says:

      So stupid that even one of her own party members felt the need to slap her down. However, if she feels confident enough to expres these views in public then I can only assume shes got some high level support. I ealy fear for the future in the event of a No Vote.

    175. Marcia says:

      still folding newspapers

    176. crisiscult says:

      o/t but anyone interested on the escalation in Kiev, live now

      similar motivation to us, from what I hear – frustration and rage at the corrupt system, but slightly different expression of that at the moment.

    177. Lanarkist says:

      With reference to the debate on Beeb2, somebody can correct me I am sure if I have this wrong, but their choice of venues strike me as odd. First Glasgow, Labour friendly, then Kelso, last Tory MP in Scotland represents this area, next Kirkcaldy. Something about Kirkcaldy that I should be able to fit into this theory, then on to Kirkwall on Orkney. Who represents Orkney?

      The dirty war is well underway. People in the audience of these debates have to realise that they are geared to discuss the trivia, smoke and mirrors. Someone has to talk about bias in the media and name websites like this one for people to access.

      Are these debates live or pre-recorded, I already feel that I know the answer to this one.

    178. Marcia says:


      you are right; pre-recorded.

    179. Fiona says:

      @ Rab the doubter

      She has form: but it is always interesting to watch the plutocrats knee jerk response: “that guy over there is getting a better deal than I am: take it off him”

      Never seems to occur to that mindset that levelling up is a better idea. Odd.

    180. Betty Boop says:

      BBC referendum debate just as dire as the last one. A panel of four is hopeless in this type of discussion. It is a misnomer to call it a debate. It further emphasised, however, just how little information is getting through to people. Many of the “questions” were simply scary rhetoric and repetitions of soundbites.

    181. Ronnie says:

      @ Marcia says,

      still folding newspapers.

      Why? I carry around 150 flat at the start and fold them according to the size of individual letterboxes.

      Works for me.

    182. Westie7 says:

      Interesting text summary of the BBC2 Debate, read it and you might get a different idea as to what actually went on. I will be checking it again in a couple of hours as Ive seen the tweets getting changed on these things in the past

    183. halftracknat says:


    184. Scott says:

      BBC can get tae….licence fee direct debit cancelled. Will give Wings half the money, other half to Yes Scotland.

      I urge others to do the same.

    185. crisiscult says:

      tried to post this earlier. Disappeared. Anyway, I know some are interested in what’s going on in Ukraine. Bit of an escalation today from what I hear, and informed by a pretty reliable friend that the security forces have snipers who have shot some people dead.

    186. sausage fingered luddite says:

      bbc appear to be finding new depths to sink to on an almost daily basis.

      I would be happy to cancel my DD mandate for licence fee however might be difficult to explain to wife and wean when the cable tv gets cut off…

    187. Thepnr says:

      @Grouse Beater

      I have to say that like john king and Edward I’m rather surprised to hear that you have never heard of Derek Bateman.

      Can only imagine that if that’s the case then you never met (or heard) of him at the BBC nor have you been following the Yes campaign for too long.

      How long have you been following the Yes campaign? just out of interest.

    188. scottish_skier says:

      feckin ddos

    189. Mosstrooper says:

      Well folks, I can STILL get Flippers interview, Using Chrome

    190. twenty14 says:

      @ SS – Birdshit on the laptop again

    191. When you see an audience member speak his question directly at the panel you can be almost certain the question is his or hers.

      If the questioner reads from a card on his lap it means the question was given to them by the producer before the recording.


      It’s BBC habit to ensure questions are topical, ordered, and if possible, controversial – there’s nothing like a bit of argy-bargy to raise the level of drama – otherwise choosing a dozen folk to put a question could mean they ask really perceptive, sharp one-liners, or go on too long, or voice abuse.

      I’ve always been unhappy about pre-chosen questions given to audience members. Flattered, they usually accept. It gets them on the telly though they don’t actually believe in the question they ask.

    192. muttley79 says:

      @George England

      Cheers for the post. I have to say the debates on the BBC have been utterly rubbish. STV’s have been far better. I did not see tonight’s one, but if it is like the other BBC’s ones then I can well imagine its lack of quality. I simply do not trust the BBC at all.

    193. hetty says:

      Just started watching an old beeb alba programme called, ‘Diomhair’, on youtube, extremely interesting re the history and underhand, dodgy tactics used against Scottish indy, by you know who. If you have not seen it, take a look…each one is just 9 mins but full of info. Also reports and quotes directly on the McCrone report…

    194. Scott says:

      @sausage fingered luddite

      Cancel for a few months mate, pay the odd month here and there. Interrupt their cash flow, I feel better already I’m not contributing to Andrew Neil’s wages or maintenance of his bizarre barnet.

    195. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Tammy Troot

    196. patronsaintofcats says:


    197. Frankie goes to Holyrood says:

      There are more sites than Youtube.. ..and we have more Pandas than Tory MPs… 🙂

      ALTERNATIVES to Youtube… LIST of Chinese sites:


      “??: Scottish_independence_Kevin_McKidd_backs_yes_vote”

    198. HandandShrimp says:

      What is particularly ironic about Labour people like Jenny is that they sound like members of the Taxpayers Alliance when they start banging on about high taxes and social welfare.

      It is just so damned weird.

    199. benarmine says:

      OT First time I’ve felt sorry for John MacKay on Scotland Tonight, the guy couldn’t get a word in edge-wise with the Youth Minister.

    200. Thepnr says:

      Jenny Marra was absolutely useless tonight in that debate. She must have switched on a good few number of Labour supporters over to Yes.

      Unlike last weeks documentary at least these debates have real people involved. I was surprised by the support for Yes in the borders, lets hope it is replicated more so across the country.

    201. muttley79 says:


      Sadly I cannot agree that it is weird. Labour have been going in a right wing direction for at least 20 years. They are almost identical to the Tories now.

    202. Jamie Arriere says:

      Good to see the EU are starting to warn Westminster about its movement toward EU withdrawal, and threatening the City of London too – oo er.

      I wonder when we’ll see this reported on the BBC. (Ok, never, I know)

    203. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Demonstrating outside Pacific Quay may strengthen solidarity among us, but it won’t help mobilise a national ‘Don’t Pay Licence Fee’ campaign for the simple reason that the MSM won’t cover it. Therefore, unless you’ve seen it with your own peepers, first-hand, it won’t ‘exist’.

      How many of us were at the huge march from Glasgow Green to the Armadillo to tell Blair to GTF, just prior to the Iraq invasion? Remember the size of that crowd? Was it 50,000, 150,000, more? We’ll never know for sure.

      Try finding footage of that march. The best you’ll get is some wobbly Youtube shots of folk playing drums, and there was next to nothing on any of the MSM broadcasters about it, on the day itself – probably the largest ever public demonstration EVER in Scotland, and it’s as if it never happened.

      Don’t wait for others to organise a BBC boycott – even if there is one, you’ll never hear about it. (How do you know one isn’t ongoing right now?) Plenty of folk right here, on this one site, don’t pay it, and haven’t done for years. (And Rev has repeatedly assured us that only 2% of readers ever comment – do the maths.)

      Just organise yourself sufficiently to identify your licence-fee payment method, and stop it immediately.

      For the BBC, this isn’t about money – what they do manage to collect in licence fees from Scotland probably wouldn’t pay for a complete series of Dr Who. (I probably exaggerate, but can Grouse Beater confirm the gist of what I’m on about here?)

      It’s not about money – it’s about control. So long as you keep paying them, they own you.

    204. Big Jock says:

      Panic at the BBC.Think of it as a good thing.They are now suppressing news and targeting Yes supporters.This means we are winning.I’ve noticed a change at my work people are beginning to distrust the news fed to them in the media.

    205. Clydebuilt says:

      Ian Bell, Herald, Friday 6 September 2013

      “In reality, most of the trust has gone. In Scotland, indeed, the BBC has a serious problem, one that will not disappear just because the fact is not reported on the BBC. A large proportion of an electorate inclined to vote against the British state and its institutions no longer has faith in vaunted ideas of impartiality.

      They see and hear state broadcasting.”

    206. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @George England (10.11) –

      Respect to you mister.

    207. Harry Shanks says:

      Jenny Marra on tonight’s BBC debate was so inexperienced that, unless my hearing has gone wonky, she blatantly gave away the Labour “plant” in the audience.

      The lady in the audience who asked if taxes would have to rise in an Independent Scotland to pay for Scandanavian levels of childcare, duly received replies from the other three panel members. When it came to Jenny Marra I would swear she replied to her by NAME, along the lines of “….I believe Catherine is right….”

      I invite others to view the relevant section of the debate and see what they think

    208. @thepnr

      Not sure what your point is: As I said earlier, I was an executive. My work still brings me into contact with the BBC hierarchy, plus junior colleagues who offer news and gossip unsolicited.

      I enjoy all of BBC David Attenborough’s work but have never met him and only ever read one of his coffee table, spin-off books. I suspect he was in some jungle somewhere when I walked the corridors of BBC London and Scotland. It is a vast organisation – now as commercial as ITV and SKY.

      I have not met Ian Macwhirter but I read him when I can. His attack on the cleaner’s cupboard that is Newsnight Scotland was perfectly accurate, the programme emblematic of how we are seen as adjunct to greater England.

      My own work means I have pockets of time to devote to the cause. I use it to study economists, philosophers, and political theorists in order to understand how western society is being undermined, and therefore what basic and progressive values and doctrines are best adopted by my homeland, if only it can regain its self-governance.

      Personal opinion I bring to that battle issue from direct experience of dealing with those who run Scotland … and on almost all counts they run it for the greater good of Westminster’s treasury.

      To the power elite Scotland is a province, a region, an outpost, the capital a place to visit during the Edinburgh International Arts Festival. To ordinary hard working English its a separate country of Jocks and good whisky.

    209. Thepnr says:

      O/T But quite funny. Me and the missus were talking about Independence tonight. You have to realise that she is nowhere near as committed as I am but is open to it.

      Anyway she works in an accountancy firm with lots of farmers on their books and told me that “most farmers are voting no, that’s what people in my work are saying”.

      I replied what bullshit, she says “well that’s what I’m I’m getting told”. So I explained about how the EU CAP payment meant for Scotland was distributed throughout the UK and how Scots farmers had lost out.

      Anyway I found this link and suggested she never let the uniformed influence the rest of the uninformed and that in fact in a survey of Scottish farmers by a farmers newspaper 74% said they were voting Yes.

    210. liz says:

      BTW a new thread has opened about Broon -the clunking fist.

    211. Mosstrooper says:


    212. call me dave says:

      I forgot about this little stepping stone in the pipeline.
      Scotland can issue it’s own bond.

      Having to sign in now every time with email address.:-(

    213. sausage fingered luddite says:

      Cheers Scott! I’ll make a start with canceling and wait until the threats come – not from tv licensing; from the wean losing access to spongebob and the wife not getting to watch the mad housewives!

    214. Fiona says:

      Sinister. So the UK government will allow Scotland to borrow by issuing bonds: in sterling. It will also not agree a currency union and has said it will take responsibility for existing UK debt, as it must to reassure creditors, But debt incurred through direct borrowing or issuing bonds will not be UK debt: it will be Scottish debt. If there is no currency union at independence it will be foreign denominated debt. This looks like quite a sophisticated plan, given the timing

    215. Gray says:

      Were the BBC ever an unbiased broadcasting corporation or did we all simply believe their propaganda?

    216. Fiona says:


      I think they were OK until Murdoch began his sustained campaign to dismantle the BBC and the BBC realised how influential he had become. Since then the BBC is fighting for its existence and everything else is secondary. They now do the government’s bidding. That is likely to be as effective as a rather famous historical example of appeasement…

    217. The site of Brown refusing to answer the tv interviewers polite questions is outrageous.

      Another politician who feels he is unaccountable to the electorate, in his case cheated by unfortunate coincidence and fate – Gordon the Hapless.

    218. schrodingerscat says:

      Edward says:
      18 February, 2014 at 9:04 pm Just observed something interesting

      agreed edward, rabbit leader was goading me on cif, saying i didnt live in scotland, as if trying to get me to reveal my location…….

      time to be careful folks………i have no reason to doubt the senserity of people on here, especially grouse beater, whom i have posted along side on cif many times. one day soon we will meet for a drink, but not yet, i can live with other peoples anonymity and if you know someones real identity……..dont be tempted to reveal it, even on a friendly blog. big brother is watching, and he is goinging to get nastier

    219. Thepnr says:

      @Grouse Beater

      I think I made a fair point in expressing my surprise that you stated you had never heard of Derek Bateman. He did work for the BBC for at least 10 years as far as I know.

      Assuming your paths within the BBC never crossed if you had cared to read Wings say just in the last week you would have seen numerous links to his blog. Hence my question about how long you have been following the Yes campaign.

    220. @ Thepnr

      I rarely follow links. Just don’t have the time. I read the article, check posts to see the reactions, and perhaps post my own only if I can add to the discussion.

      I am not a follower. I arrived at this destination by life’s path: observation, often hard experience, thoughful evaluation, until resolved to effect change.

      Is that not the same for you?

    221. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Can we use these refreshers to get an idea of how many folk commenting here have stopped paying the BBC Bollox Tax?

      I’m number 1.

      Come on folks…we all know you’re there – real names or otherwise, there’s nae shame. Let’s help sway the switherers.

    222. I’m 2. (And on that admission, it’s time to sign off.)

    223. heedtracker says:

      @Grouse Beater, schrodingerscat, great to see you again, great posts too and best wishes to everyone over at Vote YES Guardian rebel alliance too!

    224. Thepnr says:

      @ Grouse Beater

      I believe you are a plant, an English plant at that. No big deal but prove me wrong. Just had a look at your blog.

      “Without attributing authorship, I trotted out a dozen epigrams and aphorisms highly critical of English mores and behaviour. I braced myself. The resultant response was expected. The counter-attack was a torrent of venom.

      I waited till the flow abated. I explained the quotations, wit and wisdom, were all written by Englishmen about Englishmen, not about the Scots.”

      So you admit to pretending to be someone else while “penning authorships” I think you are at the penning here too. Laughing at Ourselves is something we can all do, sorry to be blunt but I just doubt your honesty.

    225. Patrician says:

      @Ian B.

      110% agree with your don’t pay campaign rather than demonstrating outside the BBC. Seriously what do people expect to accomplish from demonstrating? That the BBC will suddenly have a change of heart because some people are standing outside their offices.

      There are better things to do with the energy that would be wasted on this pointless demonstration. In fact if I was part of the No Scotland campaign, I would be encouraging this. Just think of the numbers of people not spoken too, leaflets not delivered, meeting not organised for the Yes campaign while people where diverted into arranging a demo against the BBC.

    226. Patrician says:

      Bugger, earlier post should read were not where.

    227. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Ian B, that’ll be three. Hey, a poet and i didnt know it…

    228. Thepnr says:

      @Grouse Beater
      Your denial of any knowledge of Bateman is the point of my contention. No one who supports Yes and reads here would deny knowledge of him.

    229. Barontorc says:

      Grouse Beater – please do the decent thing and leave our referendum discussions to us Scots who do give a damn.

    230. Morag says:

      Grouse Beater has not convinced me, I have to say. Sorry if this is unfair.

    231. ronnie anderson says:

      Rev, A online petition to the Scottish Gov, to remove the Bbc from Holyrood.

      A mass non payment of the licence fee, petition.

      A demonstration at Pacific Quay, & hand in those petition,s to

      Mr Small directly.

      Its long overdue, lets show the state machine they cannot get away Scot free.

    232. ronnie anderson says:

      @Ian Brotherhood, I shouldnt need to do that Ian I have been shouting for long and weery, to stop paying TV licence fee, Im on my 5 letter Ref num 3596781864 Jan 14,& its been posted before as all my letters have, C mon people if somethings worth fighting for, then its worth sticking your neck out.
      Whats the worst that can happen, a visit to the district court, you,s need to grass yourselves up for a prosicusion, there,s plenty of information on YouTube.

      BBC are in breach of their public broadcast charter, check that out.

    233. sionnach says:

      Thepnr says: “everything I believed about Britain is being destroyed and dismantled.”

      Absolutely. We knew it would get dirty, and so it has. But, as others have commented, “then they come to fight you”: only one more stage beyond that…

      Before today, I had a figure in mind for the upcoming fundraiser. After reading this post, and sharing the outrage, I will double it. The WoS community is an essential weapon in this fight, and must continue its fantastic work!

    234. Patrick Roden says:

      Maybe just me Rev, but I am finding that when I try to view any links from BBC news reports, that afterwards I am unable to access any youtube films.

      What happens is I get no sound then the film stops at exactly 7 seconds every time.

      Once I log off and leave it for a while, I am able to log on again and get you tube and sound no problem.

      If you want you can advise a set of tests, after which I will post the results, so that you can see for sure whether or not it is another attack on your site.

    235. Patrick Roden says:

      Grouse beater?

      I think it will be worthwhile contacting Derek Bateman, to see if he can work out who Grouse beater is.

      I must admit, my boolshit radar is sounding the alarm though 🙂

    236. john king says:

      Although I kind of let him off the hook by not addressing my post directly to him I was a bit surprised he didn’t correct me on my deliberate misspelling of Conan’s name, anyone who has ever looked at a comments section of any of the major daily’s would have known his name,

      I seem to recall Grouse Beater though commenting on the Telegraph a couple of years ago, and probably Weescamp or Rolftheganger would remember him,

      another thing I noted was that when I went onto his blog there was not one comment other than the one I left, its almost as if his blog dropped out of the sky (Mr bean?)
      yup somethings rotton in the state of Denmark alright.

    237. bjsalba says:

      I haven’t had a TV since 1991 (in the USA where all channels are drivelous).

      Didn’t get a TV when I came back to Scotland in 2005 and have not got a licence. I did reply to their third or fourth licence payment demand with clear and pungent reasons – primarily that their programs were utter rubbish. I did update their site from the local library computer (I didn’t have broadband then).

      I heard from them once after that about three years ago and wrote back again in the same terms. I also told them that I considered their continued demands harassment and would consult a lawyer if they continued. I have heard nothing since.

    238. JLT says:


      The answer is simple. Create a separate daily post mentioning news items that you would like added to Youtube. We look and upload all the footage to Youtube. We tell you each link name. You tell us the link. We view footage. What have you done wrong?


      And what are the BBC going to do about it? Are they seriously going to declare war on half of Scotland? I doubt it …though, it would be funny to see them snarling in anger and despair as the postings continue and it’s not even your doing!

    239. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “When it came to Jenny Marra I would swear she replied to her by NAME, along the lines of “….I believe Catherine is right….””

      She did, but the audience member had been introduced by name by James Cook at the start of the section.

    240. G H Graham says:

      Grousebeater comes across as very, very important & very experienced.

      With his deep philosophical self awareness, it’s surprising he hasn’t yet admitted to being a bus driver.

    241. Heedtracker, many thanks for the acknowledgement. I look forward to reading your comments on the “meeja’s” version of Scotland’s political hopes.

      I like your term, “the Guardian Rebel Alliance.” Good to see Schrodinger’s Cat still there, unmoved!

      On Gordon the Hapless, he’s a failed politician. Who would listen to him?

    242. HandandShrimp says:

      There is a Grousebeater on the Groaniard and has been for a couple of years. Solid Yes supporter (thousands of posts) with a Yes Saltire avatar. He is a sound chap – whether he is the same chap I have no idea.

    243. Dave says:

      Why not get the Scottish Sock Puppets to redo your videos with a note at the start on why you need to do this. This way your video gets out, the BBC can do nothing and they are held up to worldwide ridicule.

      ps The castle scene reminds me of Osborne’s flying visit.

    244. Fiona says:

      For what little it is worth I have also interacted with Grouse Beater at CIF. He is consistently supportive of Scottish Independence. I have no reason to doubt him

    245. Same chap, Head and Shrimp.

      Good to see I’m among friends. Yes, SNP member many years, important to show commitment, (former socialist who saw the light) father-in-law first SNP provost. Entire family supporters. “If we vote No we are in for trouble from the Westminster backlash!” Had a laugh at Graham’s comment above yours. (Spilled coffee on keyboard moment.)

    246. @Fiona

      Hi Fiona. My website refers people to Wings – I’ve nothing but admiration for the sheer daily output and quality of satire. It’s become my morning point of reference. I like Bella Caledonia too, though the sight is visually a bit chaotic. I prefer the linear style of Wings.
      Warmest good wishes.
      Grouse Beater

    247. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ronnie –

      I know you’ve not paid the Bollox Tax for years man, but many new readers won’t. We can’t all repeat the same thing over and again, so it’s impossible to know just how many of us (Scotland-wide) aren’t stumping-up because the BBC point blank refuses to disclose the numbers.

      Anecdotally, ‘approx a million’ UK licences go unpaid. Say 10% are in Scotland. That’s 50,000 households in Scotland. More than a few must be represented right here.

    248. Ian Brotherhood says:

      No, that’s not 10%, is it?…doh…

    249. Fiona says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      Some numbers for the UK as a whole are available: but as my previous link showed the numbers are not reliable, so far as I can tell. The BBC won’t know because the collection of license fee is, unsurprisingly, outsourced to Capita.

    250. jingly jangly says:

      Ian, Four and stopped buying all papers apart from the Sunday Herald.

    251. Morag says:

      I suppose even high-powered executives can be dyslectic….

    252. Bill McLean says:

      You can bet the bottom dollar you save on not paying the licence fee that the British state (and what a state) will ensure that the BBC propaganda machine is well funded until they get the result they want or hopefully not. I’ve been listening to the BBC for 60 years and looking back over it now I am going to state that it has always been the propaganda wing of the UK Government – it’s only so much worse now. A disgrace to democracy!

    253. Wullie B says:

      I only buy the Daily Record on a Saturday and a Tuesday for one reason , once I have my big crosswords its the big bin for it , I no longer pay the TV Tax as had enough of all the guff on TV and if I want to watch something Netflix to PS3 and PC downloads make TV no use to me , between here and Newsnet I get all the news I want

    254. Soda says:

      Speaking of censorship, just posted this comment:

      “The Scottish Gov chooses to spend our taxes on improving childcare and giving them a more secure start in life, the Westminster Gov chooses to spend it on vanity projects like Trident and a rail link that gets you to Birmingham a half hour quicker yet judging by some comments here baby eater Salmond is worse than Stalin, Hitler or Kim Jong Un.

      Well, if they insist on reading the Daily Mail…”


      and it got deleted within 30 seconds.

      I can only presme they didnt like it and used the baby eater reference as a just reason to remove my comment. Irony much?

    255. Soda says:


      Posted this amended version and that too has been deleted:

      “The Scottish Gov chooses to spend our taxes on improving childcare and giving them a more secure start in life, the Westminster Gov chooses to spend it on vanity projects like Trident and a rail link that gets you to Birmingham a half hour quicker yet judging by some comments here Salmond is worse than Stalin, Hitler or Kim Jong Un.

      Well, if they insist on reading the Daily Mail…”

      I’ll try once more…

    256. Soda says:


      It doesnt seem to have been going there way that HYS, they are now experiencing the obligatory “We are having problems…” excuse they use every time they are getting their backsides skelped.

      I was going to post this too:

      “Twice now i have made a comment for it to be deleted. Was it the Salmond reference that gave you an excuse even tho it was actually directed at the Daily Mail readers on here that have likened him to the worst dictators in history? Surely it wasnt for speaking out against the UK gov or Trident or HS2. I know censorship is a big problem here but you are advertising it now.

      The BBC is a disgrace.”

      I was so looking forward to their response.

    257. muttley79 says:


      “I suppose even high-powered executives can be dyslectic”….

      A close relative of mine had a very good career and is dyslectic.

    258. bald eagle says:

      referendum debate last night

      jenny marra was calling the people by their first name

      take alice for example when the camera was on her she looked at marra as if to say dont call out my name idiot im a stranger

      it was the same again with kathrine this time kathy was thinking this is going to get picked up by viewers at home
      surprise surprise kathy baby it was

    259. Morag says:

      One of my colleagues is dyslectic, but she’s so damn careful you’d almost never know. I just thought Grouse Beater’s typos were incongruous in context.

    260. @ Morag

      “One of my colleagues is dyslectic
      “Grouse Beater’s typos were ingongruous”

      Hi Morag

      The word is dyslexic, from the Greek, dyslexia.

      I type very fast, fraught when no edit function exits – essays I refine later. In any event, look at it this way, typos are of no concern so long as meaning is clear.

      I took a look at the Bateman site; didn’t get beyond his first few posts before recognising his intentions. Anybody who attempts to tell Alex Salmond how better to conduct his political strategy is a fool. And anybody who thinks my voice “reminiscent” of Bateman will think the great Raymond Chandler no better than Ian Rankin!

      Here’s to a better Scotland.

    261. YourScotland says:

      I started a you tube channel about a month ago ‘YourScotland’ really just to put up Scottish music and documentaries. I wasn’t going to put up anything political, that lasted nearly 5 minutes.
      The video that you’re looking for is here…

      I downloaded it and re-posted it.
      It takes a few minutes to set up a you tube channel, perhaps more people should set up their own. It’s easy to download and re-post, so videos they try to ban should always be available.
      I have nearly 5500 views in my first month, so it must be doing some good.
      Make up your own channel, download, re-post, share…

    262. Dom says:

      If it shows bbc logo then it would be copyright.

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