Anger management
We’ve noted on several previous occasions the somewhat alarming way in which “Better Together” campaign chairman Alistair Darling can barely contain his fury at the sheer outrageous temerity of the independence movement in seeking to peacefully secure democratic self-determination for the people of Scotland.
We were all set for more of the same on BBC News this morning after Alex Salmond’s speech on currency, but were surprised to be met instead by a calm, softly-spoken and altogether more statesmanlike approach.
And in fairness, he kept it up for a good 15 seconds.
Darling was barely challenged by the presenter at all, but the rage was already bubbling to the surface before the first faint glimmers of dissent. “He’d say anything to get him out of a hole!” was the blustering reaction to the slightest suggestion that a currency union might be workable, with Darling (the Chancellor of the government that claimed in 2007 to have ended boom and bust) dragging up a 15-year-old Salmond quote about Sterling.
When it was suggested that polls were moving towards independence, Darling snorted that the one cited by the presenter had come out “five, six weeks ago”, although just 30 seconds later (at 3.55 in our recording) he’d revised that to “four weeks”, and swiftly moved on to pointing out that Jim Sillars was at odds with the SNP leadership on the subject, in much the same way that Jim Sillars has been at odds with the SNP leadership on just about every subject for just about every minute of the last decade.
From there on it was a brief selection of Darling’s greatest doom-and-gloom hits, rambling on about the Scottish Government “defaulting” on its (non-existent) debts and painting a terrifying picture of life with a new currency – an option that the Scottish Government has unequivocally ruled out and which Salmond had refused to even countenance in his speech.
We’re not sure if it’s really worth bothering to record interviews with Darling, because frankly most of the time you could just play in one of his previous ones without noticing the difference. But hey, we paid for the video-capture software so we might as well get some value out of it.
So the YES campaign is merely “Alex Salmond’s obsession”.
With a million people (at least) voting for independence in September, that is one hell of a personal obsession.
Mr Darling, someone is indeed “all over the place” on this issue, and it ain’t Alex Salmond!
Meanwhile, over on the BBC they have a comments section open on the Salmond speech link to bbc.co.uk
The invective is flowing thick and fast but the phrase cherry-picking the best bits caught my eye.
It’s not the first time I’ve seen this complaint, but in all honesty isn’t that exactly what you would want your new nation to do?
We can adopt a Finnish style of education, take a Norwegian slant on managing oil revenues, we could even retain the Scottish NHS.
Whatever way we choose to go it will undoubtedly be decided with the benefits to Scotland primarily as the objective.
So as arguments go, isn’t that Scotland will be cherry-picking the best bits of the union one of the more ridiculous?
He needs to see a cardiologist before his heart lets him down. Calm down, Darling!
Ping
Presumably in dragging up a 15 year old quote from Salmond he forgot to drag up his own quote from last year where he suggested a currrency union is the best solution for all?
‘But hey, we paid for the video-capture software so we might as well get some value out of it’.
I always enjoy re runs of the Darling saga, although never found myself that desperate to see the next episode
I can’t wait to see this quivering wreck BT commander by Easter time (if he lasts that long).
I watched the First Ministers speech, it was clear, answered questions and excellent.
Alistair Darling obviously did not watch it.
BBC News at One, reporters sent the message, that the FM is running scared, losing the campaign.
What kind of dictatorship has the UK become?
@Gray, I totally agree. Being independent is all about cherry picking, otherwise what’s the point?
Was expecting his head to explode. Will keep re-running until the desired result is met.
It’s obvious from the state of him that a debate between Darling and Salmond would be too cruel, too painful, demeaning, stupid. Let’s hope that for the sake of whatever’s left of Captain Angry’s marbles, Commander Cameron continues to cower in London.
BetterTogetherBBC etc are such a strange bunch. link to bbc.co.uk Here’s the Salmond speech vote BBC online commentary coverage this morning. For extra BBC vote NO pep, they’ve mixed into their own text commentary dozens of vote NO tweets from viewers all tweeting about how Scots democracy is a terribly bad thing. So because its BBC, there’s not one YES vote tweet and weirdly as per, none of the live looking twitter account links actually work. Anger, corrupt bias and desperation really kicking now.
And he spoke, and spoke, and spoke, with probably no more than 20 seconds of questioning time.
And just before Darling or after (I was too raging to remember), there was a presenter outside WM spouting total untruths, YET AGAIN about the EU.
Do these guys never even stop to think what they are saying? “Scotland will never be allowed into the EU”. Oh, but Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria, Malta, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, etc, etc are in.
He cant hold it together because you cant defend the indefensible and he cracks every time trying to do so
He will flip and flop from one answer to another (which has been well documented on here and other sites)
He’s just a no mark, a yesterdays man trying to hold on with grim death to his westminster job and the gravy train he’s currently on and can see it slipping away from him
One thing that is pretty clear from Salmond’s speech is that there will be no retreating from the currency union. He’s pretty much outlined exactly why Scotland having a different currency to the rest of the UK is in nobody’s interests. It’s particularly not in our interest as far more of our exports as a percentage go to the rest of the UK (65% of our total exports go to the UK in comparison to 16% of UK exports that go to Scotland, using the Scottish Government estimates).
For what it’s worth, I think he’s right economically to say a currency union is better than an independent currency. I’m not convinced that in terms of winning the referendum it’s the best move, though.
Surely he will have to stop to breathe at some point.
This man is a disgrace to Scotland. He obviously thinks that he has some clout though, does anyone believe a word he says? His anger says it all really, and his defensive stance is very unprofessional. People tend to stop listening when someone is just shouting at them, and their words mean nothing.
Why don’t you slip into something comfortable and just re-laaaaax Darling?
Listen to this, and no skipping!
It’s a real shame the SNP have allowed themselves to be drawn in by the tactics of artificially mixing the indy ref’n with the first Scottish general election post-indy. Salmond should be talking about *transitional arrangements* not long term solutions. It’s obvious that retaining sterling (and a reciprocal deal on EU movements) are the _only_ options on September 19th. Everything beyond that is a matter for the Scottish parties to campaign on for your next Parliament – there are at least 4 viable currency options, let the parties campaign on which one they want. If the winner picks currency union with E,W&NI and that turns out to be impossible then that party looks like idiots and you vote for another lot.
“It’s a real shame the SNP have allowed themselves to be drawn in by the tactics of artificially mixing the indy ref’n with the first Scottish general election post-indy.”
In fairness, they’ve just about broken their backs trying NOT to do that. The White Paper makes explicitly clear that it only sets out the SNP’s position, and that other parties may win Scottish elections.
Just visited his constituency details at link to parliament.uk and they have previous election results :
General Election 2010 General Election – Edinburgh South West
Name Party Votes Share Change
Darling, Alistair Lab 19473 42.83% 3.0%
Rust, Jason Con 11026 24.25% 1.0%
McKay, Timothy LD 8194 18.02% -3.0%
Stewart, Kaukab SNP 5530 12.16% 1.6%
Cooney, Clare Green 872 1.92% -1.5%
Fox, Colin SSP 319 0.70% -0.6%
Bellamy, Caroline C Leagu 48 0.11%
Majority 8447 18.58%
Turnout 45462 68.51%
Electorate 66361
Result Lab Hold
(Honest, I DID try to format it as a table, but failed miserably)
Just wondering how his constituents are planning to vote in the IndyRef and if they will continue to back him as “old” labour come the next GE.
@Scotchwoman
Entirely agree with you and something the BBC news presenter should have known and challenged him on there and then.
Is Darling on some sort of medication?
Serious question as he doesn’t look as though he is normal.
I had the same feeling about M Moore but more of calmer down sort treatment.
Didn’t see BBC lunchtime coverage as no TVs at work but nothing surprises me about the BBC or our Unionist MEPs.
Check out latest offerings from
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He really is starting to become like Darling in Blackadder … over promoted, easily ignored and ultimately sent over the top to his doom.
Getting into dangerous territory there Alistair, because even the most difficult of thinking out there will know that you cant be responsable for a debt you didn’t run up,
Not exactly the most productive of arguments to make while you backtrack on you own words that monetary union would be “logical”.
Alistair Darling was pure fizzing there, once he’d worked up his head of steam.
I really can’t fathom how an apparently experienced politician can end up flapping like a severely badgered and baited witness under the most delicate questioning imaginable. Strikes me almost as though he’s actually responding the a string of hypothetical reposts running through his head that Alex Salmond would be slinging back at him if the two were ever to meet in a direct debate.
I can recall making a comment some time ago about how I believed Wendy Alexander could do herself some serious damage in a padded cell. I am now convinced there is room in there for one more.
I may be off mark, but I sense that this is the moment that AS has been waiting for. The enemy has panicked and given away his position. They can (and will probably) be picked off at an opportune time, probably around May-June.
The latest guff from the BBC and supporting MSM is that AS now has no choice but to come up with Plan B. No he does not! If opinion polls continue to ease towards YES, then why on earth should a Plan B be revealed at this time?
What we have now is an interesting stand-off. Who will blink first? (well, it’s usually HMG, on recent form)! The question is who has carefully prepared for this event, and who is now panicking and all over the place! If AS expected the reaction and prepared this showdown, as I think he has, HMG may have fallen into a huge bear trap.
Be afraid, Boy George, be very afraid!
Westminster’s ‘sacred’ pound will purchase approximately 12 very low quality frozen sausages.
Just got back from the ‘Scotland’s future’ public engagement event with Nicola Sturgeon in Dunblane.
One of the questions raised there was about the bias of the BBC- got a big round of applause!
Was very encouraged by the reaction of the audience- seemed very pro-indy to me. One woman at the back spouted ‘why are we even having this referendum, we’re not living in Damascus’- complete silence from the room. Otherwise, the questions and responses were all positive.
As a former Trotskyist, it’s ironic to see Alistair Darling turn into the kind of state bureaucrat identified by the man who initially inspired him:
“The Soviet bureaucracy is like all ruling classes in that it is ready to shut its eyes to the crudest mistakes of its leaders in the sphere of general politics, provided in return they show an unconditional fidelity in the defense of its privileges.
Revolution Betrayed (1936)
While I do not think we should be surprised about the British state defending its existence and using all the tools at its disposal, e.g. the BBC, it is quite staggering to hear the lengths that individual “tools” like A.Darling will go to obfuscate the notion of Scotland being a country running its own affairs.
“England would have to underwrite Scotland’s debts”
What debts? Holyrood doesn’t have any borrowing powers, and Westminster is responsible for the UK’s debts.
Norman smith BBC political editor outside Westminster after speech,He was blatantly ignoring the speech and trying to inifer that the debate had moved on to As and whether the public can trust him.Smith had his piece to camera written before As spoke.
Oh, dear. I had a vague hope that Alistair Darling, as someone who isn’t stupid, could, eventually, have an epiphany and change his mind. I think, instead, he’s quantum leapt the mind change and gone insane.
He’s such a dreadful man. I can’t watch or even listen to him anymore without throwing something at the screen/radio
Darling needs a holiday. Maybe what made him so mad at Visit Scotland.
It is becoming the standard Darling interview.
sprouts
He was too long tanning, and come out suborned.
Celebrity 2014 – The worship of the Talentless by the Mindless’
Sums up the Relationship between the BBC and Worstminster
hmmmm?
Mr Angry allowed to ramble on and on without interruption whereas Yes campaign representatives are barely allowed to finish a sentence. Even the interviewer though seemed taken aback by the negativity and venom spitting out his mouth.
I was going say how I’m beginning to worry about Mr Darling’s state of mind… Nah. I’m not really.
As Bugs Bunny would say “Nyay, what a muroon”
I’m writing this slowly as I know GCHQ can’t read very fast.
Better Together. It’s hard not to laugh.
Terrify undecided, job done. Didnt old Flipper say currency union was best option anyway? He’s seems to be popular with Labour in England or at least online CiFers seem to rate him as sidekick for Balls. Very forgiving of future PM Miliband but the man who lost the last of the British empire is probably not going to be very popular in Westminster. So no wonder one of Labour’s greatest financial whizzes/expenses claimant is annoyed.
Neeps
An article in today’s Guardian spells out the position rahter well although the MSM will not alter their stance. I have directed also a series of questions to the EU office in Edinburgh concerning Mr Barroso:
1)Are his views those of the European Commission and are they backed by legal advice?
2) Did the invitation to appear on television on the Andrew Marr Show on 16 February 2014 come from the UK government, from the BBC or was it a request by the EU for Mr Barroso to be interviewed? If the latter why was this request made? Who made it?
3) Please confirm that it is the Commission’s decided opinion based on legal principle that Kosovo and Scotland are identical cases in their desire for membership, in the case of the former for admission and the latter to remain a member. That in itself suggests a difference but one seemingly not apparent to Mr Barroso.
Flipper Darling is crap at geography as well as economics.
At about 45 seconds in, he says, “… if Scotland decides to separate from the rest of the UK and there is a border where there is none today…”.
I’ve driven south on the M74 loads of times and I’d swear on my pet baboon’s bald arse, that there is a sign that says Welcome to England.
But if Darling is correct, that there is no border now, perhaps he could inform the good folks in Carlisle that they’ve been missing out on free prescriptions, free tertiary education & free bus passes to Aberdeen for years.
Of course, it’s hard to deliver a statesman-like argument when your anger causes your eyebrows to go up and down as often as a prostitute’s knickers.
To paraphrase a colleague…
“When the eyebrows turn white, you’ll know Darling’s finally lost it”.
It really does stretch belief that this man was once the Chancellor. He’s coming across roughly as stable as a balloon in a thunderstorm.
Perhaps he thought this job would be an easy one. Perhaps the reward he’s going to get for taking it on was too tempting to ignore. But he’s clearly losing the plot, so I hope his sanity is worth the proverbial thirty bits of silver he’s getting for the work.
I failed to incluse the Guardian article link which is link to theguardian.com.
If anyone wishes to direct questions to the EU in Edinburgh I suggest that you make contact by email with caroline.winchester@ec.europa.eu
@rgweir 3.14
Smith has had his speeches to camera written by the British State this morning. Its quite clear now that the Scot Gov has the whole shebang ranged against them including of course good auld auntie, boak
The more I see Darling and listen to anyone on the BBC the more I fill with disgust and loathing.
How these people can live with their self delusion and dishonesty is beyond my comprehension.
Mr Darling was exactly the same on Sundays politics Scotland show, on the BBC, with his jugular vein bulging profusely from his collar whilst, preaching of the coming apocalypse if we decided to vote yes.
link to video.cnbc.com
Good clip from CNBC interviewing director Sam Bowman from Adam Smith Institute saying HBOS and RBS banks would need to move to London
Interviewer – hold on but isn’t HBOS wholly owned by Lloyds which is an English bank.
Interviewer – is RBS not already owned by the Government
A bit of a stuttering response from Sam Bowman then having to admit he doesn’t know the answer what would happen because of this.
link to video.cnbc.com
I’m afraid Flipper sounds like Alex Salmond is his OBSESSION.
How can he keep playing the same record for seven more months?
Stay tuned and I suppose we will find out.
🙂
He does a good impression of a panda with a sore head on acid
We were told by the BBC commentator after Salmond’s speech that the issue was not Mr Osborne but the contributions by Carney and Barrosso. Considering that Mr Salmond had just spent a considerable amount of time dissecting the implications of Mr Osborne’s Edinburgh speech, it seemed that the BBC commentator had not been listening very carefully, or was pursuing his own line of thought.
It was the BBC that produced Mr Barrosso in the wake of the Osborne speech, and it looks as if Aunty is shoving the twin track currency/EU bogeymen for all its worth. Mr Darling was certainly given an almost uninterrupted platform to castigate his opponents with no real reference to anything that AS produced in his speech. (Though it may be that AD’s skill as a speed reader is matched by his ability to respond to speeches without actually having to listen to them.)
The interview with Mr Darling was classic stuff. He told his interviewer not to build an argument based on one poll, and then did just that. He then asked me to consider the pound (which has lost 20% of its value since 2008). Well I had just had to consider my pound as I received my ISA statement this morning which indicated that it had made only half the interest it achieved last year. The more often he is given a chance to spout, the more opportunities there are for people to compare the rhetoric with their own reality.
Looking at the comments on newspaper articles there is increasingly shrill nit-picking about the minutiae of the currency and EU issues and I wonder if this is not actually a happy distraction in the eyes of the unionists as it takes away the focus from the core of the debate which is about self-determination. Once self-determination is gained, the stage is set for negotiating the nuts and bolts of independence. In that context, the economy is not the most important thing, the right to govern oneself is the most important issue at this stage.
wow.. he doesn’t let up does he…
Just one thing the comment about the banking sector being 12 times Scotland’s GDP. Is this the “head office address not where the transactions take place” argument again?
Watched mr D yakking away at lunchtime, quite extraordinary.
Counted 104 blinks inabout 30 seconds!
Just wondering if it’s deliberate as during the whole diatribe I was so busy counting I didnt actually register anything he said.
JUST WEIRD…
I see that as EU citizens we have the right to contact and receive a reply from any EU Institution:
link to ec.europa.eu
It would be a shame not to use it:
This blog by Michael Keating might be a starting point for coming up with a few questions – especially point 9
link to futureukandscotland.ac.uk
Rubbish expressed in a splendid accent is still rubbish. I had a neighbour who used to get frothed up like Flipper, but he went to the doctor and got tablets.
I fear that our Alistair is finally losing it. Seriously.
I’ve long suspected he only got the “save the union” job in the first place as he is one of the few ex-public schoolboys Cameron could find in NorthBrit Labour and therefore “almost one of us, what?”
As mentioned above, he should rethink his drama coach’s advice and realise that using the Blackadder Captain Darling is a really, really dumb move.
O/T Rev.
Here’s David Clegg banging on about Alex Salmond asking voters to take a leap of faith, with regards to currency, the usual guff from Clegg. In the paper version of Daily (drivel) Record, Clegg pokes fun at Scots by, intimating that an independent Scotland would use ginger bottles or monopoly money or bottle tops as a currency, anything but the pound.
Of course Clegg states he found these fanciful currencies on the social media, but does that make it a good idea to put them in a national newspaper, I think not, no its another scare tactic from the most minor minion of journalism.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
For the balance, I tried again the vote NO twitter links in among the BBC online commentary link to bbc.co.uk but nothing happens when you click on them in chrome and firefox gives that message below. So no link for vote no tweeting Jacqui Morris and Matthew Revett, Dr Matthew Ashton, Steve P and so on. BBC really must think people are complete and utter morons.
The address wasn’t understood
Firefox doesn’t know how to open this address, because the protocol (tweets) isn’t associated with any program.
You might need to install other software to open this address.
Can anyone kindly provided a link to the full speech given by the First Minister Alex Salmond to Business for Scotland in Aberdeen.
In a debate you would consider the case won when your opponent went in to this level of meltdown.
I’m convinced that they know the polls are not going their way and that it’s going to show up quite soon.
Last year we had a vote on fishing with Malta and one other of the smaller nations (I can’t remember) sitting either side of the UK chair.
Malta with a population far less than Glasgow has more say in our North Sea fishing grounds than we do?
A wikipedia search of countries by population is very interesting (many with far less resources)
How does New Zealand survive? Can Denmark get through the decade.
How could anyone expect the following to go it alone
Finland / Norway / Ireland / Croatia / Bosnia and Herzegovina / Uruguay.
It would be stupid to suggest Malta or Montenegro could survive alone.
Was wondering why Flipper’s nervous ticcing, stammering and blinking was giving me sense of deja vu…
I do get why the BBC is sucking up to the Tories and their pawns so much. They know that if they don’t do this, the TV license goes and Murdoch gets to have a free for all on them.
After their sycophantic behavior during this campaign though, I do honestly hope they get whats coming to them. No point having them if they won’t do their god damn jobs properly
Reporter Norman Smith on BBC London 24 hours news giving the British Establishment view. Cameron sticking his oar in again but offer to debate or negotiate.
Inside Whitehall exists a department known as the Ministry of Disinformation, this department uses MSM and particularly the BBC to spread its propaganda. It was widely used during WW2 and again during the Falkland war to spread misinformation causing confusion among enemy forces. I feel this department is hard at work in the referendum campaign.
Watched him ranting on the “News 24” channel. Imagine my surprise when, not an hour later, they show Darling in a cafe or pub surrounded by ordinary punters giving a more unrattled performance.
Link to First Minister’s speech.
link to news.scotland.gov.uk
The Scottish Government did the right thing today in sticking to their preferred Plan A of a currency union with the rest of the rUK upon Scottish Independence. Of course, this isn’t the Scottish Government’s only option–there are other models and each of these have been presented in the SG’s White Paper, ‘Scotland’s Future’. Whatever happens after a YES result, Scotland will continue to have the pound, perhaps not in a formal currency union with the rUK if Westminster continues to remain pig-headed after the result, but it will most assuredly have the pound nevertheless. We will have our currency. Make no mistake about it.
Osborne gave a less than emphatic ‘no’ to a formal currency union whilst Salmond says ‘yes’ to a formal currency union. These are the respective positions–at least for the moment. The REAL negotiations over the CU option will begin only after a YES result in the referendum and not before. I fully expect that after a YES result, Westminster will be ‘persuaded’ against its diktat rejection of the proposal (before negotiations have even begun) and will instead come to accept the rational, logical and common sense view of the SG. But as a campaign tactic, Westminster–for the moment–have to make the currency union option seem as if it is off the table.
The fact is the formal currency union option will only truly be off the table if it cannot be negotiated in the 18 months after a YES result. And that is the time when the SG will have to consider implementing one of the other options it presents in the White Paper–and not a moment before.
Salmond is very clever here and has totally ‘played’ Westminster. He probably anticipated the knee-jerk reaction from Westminster of saying NO to a formal currency union and how being told by Osballs that we can’t use our own currency would be received by many Scots. Salmond well knows that the more Westminster say to us “No you can’t”, the more Scotland will tell WM, “Yes we can.” If Westminster had just turned round and said of the SG’s common sense proposal, “we’ll think about it” or said “we’re not prepared to pre-negotiate it” then that, probably more than anything, would have taken the wind right out of Salmond’s sails, his ploy of getting WM to rebuff Scottish wishes would have floundered.
But alas, Westminster simply cannot help itself–the colonial, imperialist mentality simply has to assert itself and try and place Scotland back in its box. That was (and remains) a grave miscalculation by Westminster and that is why I suspect they will lose this debate and, quite probably, the referendum. They just don’t ‘get’ us.
The audacity of Downing Street, when they said, “Alex Salmond is very prompt, when it comes to penning letters,but a little bit less so when it comes to offering answers.
Downing street hasn’t answered any questions about negotiations prior or post independence, on anything except currency, and even there they’ve made a pigs foot of it.
link to telegraph.co.uk
How many times did he blink there?
Without going completely one issue, the only twitter link that works from the BBC online commentary is the first one, a James Bloodworth which is very odd or just the usual link to twitter.com
And Mr Bloodworth links on to his very hard vote no thing for Left Foot Forward, whatever that is. link to leftfootforward.org
Spooky vote NO Scotland ghosts in the BBC machine.
starlaw says:
Inside Whitehall exists a department known as the Ministry of Disinformation
Isn’t that a subdivision of the “Ministry of Silly Walks”?
There needs to be anger management generally amongst anti-Independence folks.
The Guardian comments pages either has suddenly been invaded by Telegraph readers or the liberals aren’t so liberal as I thought, or perhaps they are concerned and liberal if it involves starving Africa or the Middle East. Anything that shakes the cosy picture of Britain, scares them into a state of mindless ignorance.
There were talk of arresting the Scottish Government, and use of troops for the attack on the Pound, that is, using the Pound.
Spittle aplenty. It reminded me of the film 28 Days, with the fury virus rampant.
A bit like Darling there were some that started rationally with if the Scots want to go, then came the list that became angrier and angrier. No rational information from Yes commentators were acceptable or were ignored i.e. no discussion on the point.
There was an interview on Russian TV discussing the down playing of the Sochi Olympics, by US News, suggesting terrorist attacks and poor preparation.
The commentator(American) said the journalists have a story in their heads and look to find anything that fits the narrative. This partly fits here, the Scottish BBC journalist who tore up the SNP manifesto, saying it was nonsense, SNP had no chance, next day they won the elections to form the Scottish Government.
Now it has gone far beyond that excuse. The BBC corrupts democracy.
O/T BBC telling a story that Sir Sean Connery being questioned by Spanish police – the story has virtually bugger all to do with Mr Connery.
More a local Marbella story so we can guess why BBC Radio Scotland spent 5 minutes telling us it happened 20 years ago and Mr Connery is accused of nothing.
Don’t mess with 007
Rustic Camembert
Oops again! The only vote NO BBC tweeter that actually goes anywhere this morn is James Bloodworth but he’s tweet quoting a vote No report on Salmond’s speech this morn in Left Foot Forward by one Mr Ed Jacobs. So right click google Ed Jacobs and up pops Ed Jacobs who is Ed Jacobs, the Vote NO Guardian Northerner’s political commentor, link to theguardian.com
This is fun and maybe shows how BBC’s political bias/corruption connects up throughout the day.
.
If you’ve had enough of the BBC/HMGov propoganda, starve the beast. Cancel your TV License and tell them why.
link to tvlicensing.co.uk
“The law states that you need to be covered by a TV Licence if you watch or record television programmes, on any device, as they’re being shown on TV. This includes TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorders.
You don’t need a licence if you don’t use any of these devices to watch or record television programmes as they’re being shown on TV – for example, if you use your TV only to watch DVDs or play video games, or you only watch ‘catch up’ services like BBC iPlayer or 4oD.”
More time to read WoS and you’ll save £145 to boot.
The BT shark has definitely been jumped.
Flipper’s moments of exasperation with the (fairly gentle) interviewer are very telling.
It’s not hard to tell that it’s the BT wheels that are coming off.
It made me think back to when I was listening to Ken MacDonald on BBC Radio Scotland on Sunday morning reviewing the papers with Sergio Casci and Katie Grant.
I was getting a bit cheesed-off with the way Katie was being given maximum airtime for her not-very-subtle BT cheerleading, but then I realised that maybe something else was going on.
Katie kept grabbing and hogging everything that was being discussed, and continually banged the BT drum. Poor Sergio hardly got a word in.
Katie was in a mode where, if somebody had texted in to say they had just seen a flying saucer, Katie would have jumped in and said that it was probably one of these wonderful new UK stealth drones, and that we were all really better together as Great Britain to have the clout to … blah .. blah ..
By the end I had a funny feeling that Ken was tolerating the way Katie was behaving, in a kind of ok-you-can-have-enough-rope-to-hang-yourself way.
She sounded to me as if she had gotten infected by a variant of the panicky/twitchy Flipper disease.
When Sergio got to occasionally say something (always measured and sensible), the contrast said it all …
Barroso’s remarks about Scotland not joining the EU are as ludicrous, as his record in office. Says John Palmer.
Apparently Barroso’s ten year tenure, as EU executive, has been lamentable at best.
link to theguardian.com
Loved every rage filled second of that.
It would be ace if Kirsty Wark, in anti-Salmond mode, interviewed Flipper in anti-Salmond mode.
Is there a name for the public display of such uncontrollable pavlovian display of emotion (such as “road rage”) which Alex Salmond provokes across the British establishment?
Colonel Blink on form today.
104 in less than 30 seconds, must be a record!
Mind you it certainly distracts me from the dialogue 😀
Proud cybernat,
I have to say, I concur with everything in your excellent comment above. What Westminster and their Labour and BBC apparatchiks have been trying to do, is force the Scottish Government and the YES campaign to pre-negotiate the terms of independence.
The proposal for a currency union not only makes sense for iScotland and rUK, but it is also an important negotiating point. What George Osborne thinks of it just now, is neither here nor there.
The YES campaign are absolutely right to stick to their current currency plan, because only an utter fool seriously believes that in the event of a YES vote George Osborne will say NO to a currency union thereby leading to immediate Sterling devaluation, a major downturn in sterling zone balance of payments, and increased business transaction costs for rUK businesses trading to Scotland.
In addition, should George Osborne decide to commit economic suicide, and reject a currency union, in the event of a YES vote, then Scotland could literally walk away with a clean balance sheet. No default, as legally the debt will not belong to iScotland. (I actually quite like that idea).
Frankly, In discussions I have had with people, the general view is they really don’t care about the intricacies of currency union, all that matters is the pound – and as we all know London cannot prevent iScotland or indeed ANY country using pound sterling.
I’m now so bored with going round in circles with this utter bollocks from Westminster about currency, that I really wish they would move on to a different project fear scare story, just to keep it remotely interesting.
Meanwhile, in BBC land, their political correspondent, Norman Smith seems to have spent the entire day, standing in Westminster, giving the BBC pro-british viewpoint on all of this.
(Warning)
Post in very bad taste
(/warning)
My wife and I (pensioners) have been faithful supporters of Margo MacDonald’s Assisted Suicide bill. We go to all the meetings. But concerning the unfortunate lassie’s husband we find ourselves more and more in support of Assisted Murder. What a vainglorious little twat Jim Sillars is. Poor Margo.
Darling a numerically challenged person. Not good with figures nor dates.
Vronsky,
You are right. It is in very, very poor taste, FFS!
just checking for comments…
I thought he was going to explode when confronted with the 5% increase in YES vote. The interviewer then backed down to the agreed script. And Darling looked like Maxheadroom. Stuck on the “wheels come off speach”.
Strange BBC reporting of situations analysis. On the one hand this could be considered fairly balanced:
link to bbc.co.uk
Scottish independence: The currency debate, claim by claimBy Marianne Taylor
BBC Scotland news
On the other hand this: link to bbc.co.uk
Scottish independence referendum: Experts examine the claimsBy Andrew Black & Martin Currie
BBC Scotland
While the intention is good: Throughout the coming months, the BBC news website will be picking out statements from both sides of the debate and asking a panel of experts to analysis the claims.
The result shows every expert opposing the Yes stance.
Weirdly bi-polar
Test, sorry
Alex Salmond coining the phrase “The George Tax” which relates to cross border charges, English businesses would incur, without the currency union, amounting to £500 million pounds per year. Westminster spokesman added “We will not pre-negotiate, anything.”
link to express.co.uk
Baron’s Court
As much as I feel Darling has lost the plot, what scares me more is the complete partiality of almost all the recognised media. The so called big guns of Scottish reporting have shown themselves to be incapable or incompetent in asking any searching questions of the Better Together Campaigners. I always wondered how the Nazis could rise so easily, but when you have journalists more interested in their jobs than the potential devastation of their country you can see how easy it was.
They continually ask why is BT not telling us more on what will happen after a NO vote, when they know they can’t answer that question, because after a NO vote all decisions will be taken by Westminster and Holyrood will become nothing but an inconsequential talking shop that will eventually be put out to pasture.
Now we have only one choice now, vote YES or lose everything
104 blinks per 30 seconds, is this a record?
If you count the blinks when he’s speaking you can easily get by without hearing any of it. Quite astonishing. is he some kind of anti-interviewee?
Joe – would that be Salmonella Poisoning?
Kelvingrove
In regards to Darling he really does not want to give this up:
link to youtube.com
😀 😀
Marcus Brigstocke, a supposed comedian, starting a war on Twitter by insulting William Wallace, then telling Scots to go f*ck themselves oh dear.
link to independent.co.uk
How do you get a Youtube clip directly on to WoS?
Blood boiling at BBC News 24 Its so British establishment with no analysis or questioning of Darling’s claims but negative slants on Alex Salmond’s speech put to john Curtss that well known Nobel Prize winner for economics.
Why didn’t they ask SirJames Mirrlees instead?
Paul Kavanagh splendid explanation of the why Barroso behaves the way he does:
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
“Barroso is a member of the European Popular Party He belongs to the same centre-right cabal as the Spanish Partido Popular, and the UK Tories (before they went off in a collective huff and left the European Popular Party to join up in the EU parliament with far-right Latvian holocaust deniers). The Spanish PP has spent considerable time and effort persuading fellow members of the European Popular Party to adopt its line that states which become independent from existing EU members must leave the EU and reapply for membership. Reliant upon the support of European Popular Party members of the EU Parliament, Barroso wasn’t going to upset Partido Popular’s applecart.
@joe kane
Is there a name for the public display of such uncontrollable pavlovian display of emotion (such as “road rage”)
“IndyRefRage”
Just had leaflets through the door from Bitter Together. It’s the same old lies going back to the shipyards, subs, etc. and also the whole goodbye pound thing that they can’t guarrantee at all and all of it is insubstantial tripe with no proof. They seem to hope to win by simply blasting out baseless fear repeatedly and hoping it sticks. It is a paper thin argument though and we just have to hope people have the sense to test it and find out it isn’t a brick wall after all.
The unionist strategy seems to be:
‘Let’s just pretend that a sensible currency deal will be vetoed in the hope that enough suckers believe it’
And many will with the media all playing along.
I feel there is a trap being set here.
All this push for a Plan B – the most obvious one to use a Scottish pound pegged to sterling.
Then they likely have RBS lined up to announce their HQ move to London the week before the referendum.
It’s just amazing to see all these Scottish Labour MP’s acting against their own countries interest.
Alex Massie sending up Osborne and Salmond, in the Osborne-Salmond tapes.
link to blogs.spectator.co.uk
Colonel Blink said that a poll was 5 or 6 weeks back, but when the interviewer mentioned that a ‘Poll just a couple of weeks ago, showed yes up 5%’ Blink said, No that’s the poll I was talking about, it wasn’t a couple of weeks ago, it was 4 weeks ago!
Eh? Blatant lying by Better Together on national TV and they are getting away with it, (but not in peoples homes)
He also said it’s the trends that are important and there’s hardly been any movement in the polls!
Another blatant Lie by Blink.
You know that bloke Alistair Darling ?
He’s a blinking liar, he is 🙂
@ Robert Louis
Right with ya!
link to scottcreighton.co.uk
@Gray Wouldn’t say cherry picking,more like dropping the rabid right wing bits we didn’t vote for or want.
Darling knows his ermine robes are on a shoogly nail.
@Beachthistle
I see that you have put up a Youtube clip direct onto WoS. How do you do it?
Parody becomes reality
link to youtube.com
“You are the most graceless dim-witted bumpkin”
Flipper Darling has gills behind his ears giving him an unfair ranting advantage. He can rant and breath at the same time.
As someone has already brought up the topic of clumsy English-based comedy interventions in the referendum debate, here is the News Thump Facebook in its comments thread tying itself up in knots trying to justify its uninformed unionist propaganda. See the nested threads –
Alex Salmond claims he has every right to use gym he’s no longer member of
link to facebook.com
“The fact is the formal currency union option will only truly be off the table if it cannot be negotiated in the 18 months after a YES result. And that is the time when the SG will have to consider implementing one of the other options it presents in the White Paper–and not a moment before.”
I don’t really go along with that, to be honest. There’s nothing preventing us from saying that an independent currency is a second option should the currency union not transpire. If anything that would make Scotland’s negotiating position stronger because we’d have an alternative – and one which has been indirectly ratified by the electorate in a referendum.
A lot of people thought that after Osborne’s speech the SNP would abandon the currency union altogether – RevStu called it an “open goal”. It’s pretty clear that isn’t going to happen now, so the argument really hinges on convincing the electorate that politically the rest of the UK will go for it – knuckle dragging UKIP cretins and all.
Does anyone have the contact details for South Edinburgh Yes?
@Joe kane:
There is, it’s called the 2-minute hate.
What worries me about this chap is
1} he-might stand for Holyrood
2}he might get to be labour first minister
TAKE TO THE BOATS NOW!!!!!
In full: Alex Salmond’s speech on currency union and independence:
link to news.stv.tv
At lease STV is giving us a chance to see the whole of Alex’s speech without Darling or BBC ‘experts’ polluting the message.
Tatties
I think after independence that people will look back on the BBC as being as barmy as Pravda and other similarly blinkered propaganda outlets.
@Jean
Many thanks for providing the link to the First Minister’s speech.
Classic Private Eye front cover 5-18 Sept, 2008 –
link to private-eye.co.uk
@Muttley – Guy called Neil Hay can be contacted on yesedinsouth@gmail.com
You’re not in my patch by any chance, are you?
Has Darling flipped again? Looks like!
There is a point when ‘politicking’ crosses the line. The likes of Darling have crossed that line. They are telling out and out lies. They are evil, in the same way that conmen fiddle old folk for non-existent roof repairs. They are scum.
Problem solved, whilst reading this I just got a phone call informing me that I can legally write off 70% of debt. I’ll forward the info pack to Osbore, Eyebrow boy and co.
The thing about the currency that ranting mad men and scaremongers like Darling fail to mention is that the solution adopted for immediate post-independence is not necessarily the long term option over the years or generations either. Australia used the pound and went to the dollar (not the only example of this sort of thing in history or the world). That entire continent failed to explode into a wasteland of dead pandas under a Doctor Who boycott from Better Together & co., despite the wild-eyed predictions of Project Fear.
A free and independent Scotland can decide for ourselves what is best for us when we are good and ready for it and we will easily adapt over time. That is the benefit, ability and freedom that independence will bestow over the hands-tied status of Scotland now. The soverign people of Scotland can tailor everything perfectly to our needs, instead of being given ill-fitting hand-me-down cast-offs from our Westminster overlords.
Must say all these folks saying Salmond has played Westminster or played a blinder seem a little bit premature and at a stretch its very hopeful. Timing wise the British have played a good game in the last week with Currency and EU 1-2 IMO.
Hitting pretty well at two previously reasonably unassailable pillars of the SNP policy.
We’ll need to see the impact on the Polls, if we actually get to see it.
The only chink of light I can see is that they have played their hand very early. I cannot understand why they’d do this no other than their own data is showing collapse of the NO vote.
If they’d played this in August I could really see the impact, perhaps their forecast are saying it would be too late. Time will tell.
muttley 79
Just post the full youtube link.
Andy B- for an update on what Marcus posted you can see the chat between him and our very own Rev on Wings twitter account. All very amicible and Marcus gets some accurate info to read instead of that rubbish from the MSM. Happy people all round. Hopefully Marcus can get some laughs out of the NO campaign content rather than the WTF moments it gives me.
ping
Can anyone answer this?
Just one thing the comment about the banking sector being 12 times Scotland’s GDP. Is this the “head office address not where the transactions take place” argument again?
@Appleby says:
I think after independence that people will look back on the BBC as being as barmy as Pravda and other similarly blinkered propaganda outlets.
With the way the BBC have handled the independence referendum issue, they have already tarnished their global brand.
By this time next year post-graduate media and politics students at Universities in Europe (especially Germany) will be writing and attending classes and seminars on this topic.
Turnbull drier
“Instead Osborne had raised several false claims concerning the Scottish economy. The first concerned banking. Osborne said that the banking network made any currency union risky. Yet the HMRC’s own tax records demonstrate that only 7.3% of money raised from the banking levy came from Scotland. It is a misrepresentation to include City of London based financial operations – such as the RBS’ Global Markets Division – as part of an independent Scotland’s financial sector.”
From Business for Scotland’s report on Alex Salmond’s speech
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
As Business for Scotland have pointed out many times previously, it is economically absurd to ignore the international and multi-lateral nature of banking operations and bail-outs during the credit crisis.
Re Robin Ross
“Looking at the comments on newspaper articles there is increasingly shrill nit-picking about the minutiae of the currency and EU issues and I wonder if this is not actually a happy distraction in the eyes of the unionists as it takes away the focus from the core of the debate which is about self-determination. Once self-determination is gained, the stage is set for negotiating the nuts and bolts of independence. In that context, the economy is not the most important thing, the right to govern oneself is the most important issue at this stage.”
Great comment – I’ve been thinking this too.
The No camp want to limit the parameters of the debate, the Media are facilitating this….
We have to broaden the debate…
Self-determination and Democracy
– the key issues to communicate to folks.
It is also the case that he seems convinced that Alex Salmond is causing the issue with a currency union?????
I seem to remember it being caused by road runner (I just figured that one out LOL) Osborne was the one who came and started all this off.( along with Balls and the red Rodent, saying the same from a distance! )
Alex Salmond wants to help with the UK’s debt, and very reasonable that is too, as we have no obligation to do so.
We should just put up our hands, we tried to be nice, but were strangely rebuffed.
So let us accept their decision, and use a currency board without ANY loss of sovereignty AND be much better off.
I would be much happier to, put in more anti poverty programs than to pay Westminster’s wages, AND we will still use the pound!.Idiots.
I watched the clip with the sound off. Darling is very bitter indeed. Watch his lips curl!
I no longer get upset with BBC or the Fourth Estate.
Cameron has just said in a BBC interview that Alex Salmond wants a currency union ” but that it is under threat “.
DOH, thought there was “NO CHANCE OF A CURRENCY UNION! Distancing ??
If Scotland can walk away debt free as a secceding state then couldn’t England do the same? If both parties secceeded then neither would be liable for any ex UK debt surely?
broon sass
marrowfat peas
I’d love to see Darling under real pressure from a hostile interviewer……on the other hand maybe I wouldn’t. It would be like an episode of Eastenders when everyone is really, really annoyed.
I think the only positive for Better Together is that at least Darling isn’t Cameron, Osborne or Alexander.
I’m glad that Ruthie has kicked into touch any prospect of a joint Devo Something approach. The choice is clear, Better Together’s sub UKIP save the £ or independence. Go on, go on, go on, you know you want to in your heart of hearts. Who could say No to Scotland?
Look how far we have come. Independence has become normalised.
It just seems like yesterday the MSM were discussing who should get the vote, now they are didcussing what will happen in an independent Scotland.
It’s happening.
The New Statesman claiming Alex Salmond’s speech was an utter failure, and even if it does cost English businesses £500 million pounds or more, it worth it to stop Salmond getting the pound.
link to newstatesman.com
Oh look, rapid backtracking by the EC on Barosso’s statement. Poor Danish spokesperson wheeled out to ‘explain’ the intervention.
Too late, of course. No one in the MSM will care a jot. But worth reading (google translate does an OK job) to see just how far the toad is embarassing his own department.
link to lavanguardia.com
Is Mornington Crescent really the best way to defeat DDos attacks? If so, I’m playing the Gordon Brown gambit:
Glenrothes-with-Thornton.
That’ll teach you GCHQ!
Yes!
Muttley79 Try at
yesedinsouth@gmail.com
Here’s Ian Dunt, from Politics.co.uk, saying that Alex Salmond is spewing myths and bedtime stories,Dunt’s incoherent ramblings about the FM’s career are tedious at best. Dunt is a less interesting version of Alistair Darling, which makes him a right Dunt.
link to politics.co.uk
Flipper flounders.
good evening
Have just done the poll that Keith-B linked to on a previous thread (thanks Keith!) The poll is for Channel 4 and is here: link to channel4.com
The poll is fairly simple, it asks if the participant is elegible to vote in the referendum and whether they will be voting yes or no – both were at approximately 80% for yes when I did it a few moments ago
Additionally it asks, whether an independent Scotland should a/ be able to keep sterling and b/whether Scotland should be allowed to apply to join Europe. I get really annoyed that these polls and commentators make such sweeping and inaccurate assumptions, completely ignoring the fact that a/ there is nothing stopping us using the pound, and b/ that we are already in Europe. However, as there was no option for ‘it’ll be none of your business anyway after we vote for independence,’ I voted yes for both those options too.
I may be settling up everyone for a fall but this has appeared on Twitter….
link to twitter.com
Rev fire up the video capture !!!
Look how far we have come. Independence has become normalised…
…It’s happening.
Yes, but such things start to feed on themselves and in a way become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Irony is, if the Westminster government had reacted by saying. ‘Ok, have your referendum. We don’t mind if you go. Hell, we’ll even help as much as possible…’ they might have had more hope of getting a No vote. 😉
ffs aff site fur two day,s an forgeting how tae spell ma ain name
@ Linda’s back
Ta for that, it’s cropped up at work so I wanted to get the correct info to refute it..
I could do with some anger management,
after watching STV reporter Claire Stewart asking people on Princes Street what their opinion of George Osborne’s comments about the use of the pound and Alex Salmond’s response was, the overwhelming response (but one who had an English accent and could well have been a visitor) was to suggest Osborne had badly misjudged the public reaction in Scotland , one woman quite vocal in her condemnation of Osbourne’s “blackmail” bizarrely this reporters findings were that the yes campaign were in trouble, complaint duly sent to STV news
Thanks Alistair & George for your joint effort.
Result £1,300,000,000,000 of debt. you are well worth listening to.
You have got it all wrong about Darling.
He is acting like a prisoner of war, I just checked his blinks are repeating SOS over and over again.
AM hoarse Am hoarse shouting fur ma Country Am hoarse.
1000 Yes newspaper folded ready for delivery, I hope the people
that read them are shouting out tae.
@Appleby “The thing about the currency that ranting mad men and scaremongers like Darling fail to mention is that the solution adopted for immediate post-independence is not necessarily the long term option over the years or generations either.”
Although this is obviously true, there are a few problems with it as an argument for a currency union. While currencies can be changed, countries generally have to pretend otherwise in a currency union. If Scotland joined a currency union and made it clear that it was just a temporary solution until something better came along then it leaves the entire enterprise open to speculation in the markets. That’s one of the main criticisms that Nicholas MacPherson put forward, so I don’t think it works as an argument given the main thrust here is to try and win the rest of the UK round to a currency union.
If we’re abandoning the currency union altogether then fair enough, but I think it’s clear from Salmond’s speech today that he’s not going to do that.
O/T despite all the negative headlines – was passing 3 aged abt 20ish guys talking about whisky being 21% (I think it’s 25%)of the UKs total food and drink exports – so the message is being spread.
Here’s quite a good read about Catalonia and their struggle for independence. The Catalonian’s describe their bid for independence as a “Unstoppable train” their proposed referendum will take place on the 9th of November 2014.
I hope they achieve their goal, after Scotland becomes independent.
link to cafebabel.co.uk
“almost one of us, what?”
Should we be hearing that in a Bertie Wooster vernacular what?
@Neil
Sent to following to Ms Winchester. Will advise if any response is received.
Dear Ms Winchester
I am writing to express my concern at the remarks by Mr Barroso on the Andrew Marr show yesterday (Sunday) in respect of the independence referendum in Scotland. He stated that it would be “almost impossible” for an Independent Scotland to be in the EU and they would have to apply. Note he said apply, not reapply or negotiate.
Is this now the official position of the European Union towards a possible Independent Scotland, or is Mr Barroso expressing a personal opinion. The interview gave the distinct impression that this was now EU policy.
I was also surprised that Mr Barroso regarded the position of an independent Scotland on a par with Kosovo. I am quite familiar with the situation in the Balkans and can find no comparisons whatsoever between Kosovo and Scotland. Can I ask again, is this the official EU position, or is Mr Barroso talking in his private capacity?
I believe that Mr Barroso should not be interfering in the internal affairs of a Member State, and although he is retiring later this year, feel that such an intervention will bring negative perceptions on the neutrality of the position he holds, not only for him personally, but for future presidents of the European commission.
As a proud European, with Scottish ancestry, I would welcome your clarification of the position. I would certainly not wish to have misinterpreted Mr Barroso’s stance, and to infer from his remarks that he was actively engaging in the internal affairs of the UK. Although I am sure you will be aware from the media coverage that this is EXACTLY how it is being presented.
Thank you for your time. I await your clarification with interest.
link to vidd.me
We are Better Supplicated
There are some seriously deluded people on this website.
What part of the word NO, do you lot on here not understand? Are you seriously suggesting that for the next 6 months, the YES campaign is going to stick to the line that the Westminster government are lying?
Lets look at this way. The SG are proposing a currency union with the rUK. Westminster have looked at this issue and decided that it is not reasonable to ask rUK taxpayers to potentially bail out an independent Scotland. What exactly is wrong with that? Would Scotland be able to bail out rUK, an economy 10 times its size? No, so what exactly is in it for the rUK apart from risk? And before you start banging on about balance of payments, that myth has already been debunked.
If you ask me, the SG proposed a currency union as a trap for Westminster, no matter which way they leant. If they had said yes, the YES campaign would proclaim this as a victory for the feasibility of independence. By saying NO, Westminster have been accused of bullying. An interesting parallel is with the UK’s decision not to join the Euro. At the time, the Labour administration was applauded for representing the best interests of the country So what is different here?
I strongly suggest that the idea of a currency union is abandoned, and the SG propose a free floating scottish pound instead. Oh and also, they would require to have their own central bank and currency as a condition of EU entry, So another reason to abandon currency union.
“And before you start banging on about balance of payments, that myth has already been debunked.”
Do share.
@johnking
Just reading your comments and description was enough to make my blood boil. 🙂
It would be wonderful if one or two more BBC people would break ranks and lift the curtain on what is going on in the editorial control of their output because it gets more brazenly lopsided by the day. God help us if a poll coes out showing Yes in front.
Talking of polls I was mildly surprised there were none at the weekend. I would imagine Prof Curtice is itching to see what three weeks of totally manic politics with a soupcon of threats and posturing thrown in for good measure has done to people. Certainly, talking to people in the office of a don’t know inclination, Osborne has not won any friends.
Here:
link to scottisheconomywatch.com
What, where he says “In my view it is unlikely politically that no agreement would be secured with the UK government”? You agree with that too?
Prof Ashcroft’s figures include some questionable “estimates”, and still result in several billions of pounds of contribution. He has, shall we say, some form in “spinning” figures to the UK’s advantage.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
@spaceboy
We get some seriously deluded visitors as well.
“I strongly suggest that the idea of a currency union is abandoned, and the SG propose a free floating scottish pound instead.”
Sure… we will line that up for the three wise idiots of Troika spin and Captain Darling to rail against as well.
They seek to sow confusion. Scottish Government should hold the line.
ingman 2020 says:
17 February, 2014 at 7:07 pm
@spaceboy
We get some seriously deluded visitors as well.
“I strongly suggest that the idea of a currency union is abandoned, and the SG propose a free floating scottish pound instead.”
Sure… we will line that up for the three wise idiots of Troika spin and Captain Darling to rail against as well.
They seek to sow confusion. Scottish Government should hold the line.
Why? Answer my question above: is it reasonable for the rUK taxpayer to be at risk of having to bail out an independent Scotland?
“is it reasonable for the rUK taxpayer to be at risk of having to bail out an independent Scotland?”
Bail out what, exactly?
Are you seriously suggesting that for the next 6 months, the YES campaign is going to stick to the line that the Westminster government are lying?
Spaceboy
What you mean the greenest government ever, or Clegg’s we will not increase tuition fees, or Darling of the pro-Iraq war dodgy dossier fame?
Yup we will pursue the “this is politics” line for another 7 months. Why? Because this is politics. People do not tell the truth. They hedge their bets, they set up positions and bear traps that they hope others will fall into.
Personally I don’t care if there is a currency union or we have our own but I can see a purpose in sticking to this if for no other reason than it gives Better Together no purchase on any other options.
@appleby
Strange you should mention Australia. There is currently a serious proposal from Australia for a formal currency union with New Zealand. They make these periodically. This would be equivalent to EWNI asking iScotland to enter a currency union in terms of relative sizes of economy.
The Australian government apparently see no insurmountable problems for a currency union with a smaller neighbour. One to put in the debating bank I feel.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
17 February, 2014 at 7:09 pm
What, where he says “In my view it is unlikely politically that no agreement would be secured with the UK government”? You agree with that too?
I never said that, I said that he has debunked the balance of payments myth. This analysis was months ago.
“I never said that”
Ah, so you only agree with the bits of his analysis that suit you. Righto.
Poor Al, he can feel that seat in the house of lords slipping away. No £300 a day attendance pension. Boo hoo!
This is heartening, well done the Borders.
link to bordertelegraph.com
“I strongly suggest that the idea of a currency union is abandoned, and the SG propose a free floating scottish pound instead.”
I don’t see how this is credible. The speech today and the accompanying research note illustrated the transaction costs which are created by Scotland having a different currency from the UK. More than that, it would have a greater effect on us as around 65% of our exports go to the rest of the UK.
Maybe you can make some economic argument in favour of it, but politically it’s impossible. I don’t think the Yes side has any choice but to continue to back a currency union – there isn’t any other option at this point.
@Les Wilson says:
Cameron has just said in a BBC interview that Alex Salmond wants a currency union ” but that it is under threat “.
DOH, thought there was “NO CHANCE OF A CURRENCY UNION!
OH MY GOD … the BT wheels have well and truly come off.
Dave C had a worried look on his face.
Dave C made it sound like Currency Union was back to ‘maybes aye, maybes naw’
but worst of all …
He stupidly used the ‘threat’ word twice.
(Eck ‘under threat’ over currency, Eck ‘under threat’ over EU)
This sort of schoolboy presentational error would never have happened in those Blair/Mandelson/Campbell days of old.
I thought Dave had a PR background?
OK … just this once I’ll not be a chippy Scot and imagine I’m being threated again by the elites for the third time in five days.
I’ll not take it personally. I’ll put it down to posh boy insensitivity and stupidity.
Poor Al, one minute you’re flipping, the next you’re flopping!
link to muzzerino.com
Oldie but goldie
Just watched Pat Kane on C4 news and he was great! The Flipper was hideous, as per.
@handandshrimp
Exactly correct.
Jon Snow gave darling a hard time on channel 4 News, Darling was all a twitch.
No campaign wobbles.
Alistair Darling has said on Channel 4 News, ” I don’t believe there will be a currency union”.
From certainty just yesterday to an opinion tonight.
Billy Connolly “I won’t vote in independence debate.
link to deesidepiper.co.uk
Meanwhile.
Staying in the UK would be an academic disaster, say 60 Scottish professors and academics.
link to deesidepiper.co.uk
alastair was looking a bit flustered on c4 news,john snow asking some awkward questions and he`s not used to that
Just watched something genuinely amazing a balanced piece on the Referendum on the MSM !!!
Channel 4 News
The VT package and Faisal Islam analysis dinnae vary much from the bog standard MSM line….
But then….Jon Snow interviewed Darling gently at first but in the end had him gibbering as Snow observed Scotland is being treated like ‘a 3rd World country’…..
Cue ‘I’m a proud Scot’ 🙂
Then the lovely Cathy Freeman interviewed Pat Kane who got all his points over clearly and calmly.
Reading between the lines Pat was either bluffing big style or I suspect the canvassing returns have been superb for YES and they are supremely confident of good poll numbers when they eventually appear.
Well worth watching on Channel 4 +1 if you missed it.
Mince
Channel 4 – What a contrast between Darling and Pat Kane.
Darling repeating the same old threats and lies all based on a “constructed” news base. Pat Kane Cheerful, positive and confident.
I loved the quote of the headline from a “Scottish Newspaper”. The interviewer obviously doesn’t know that the title does not make it Scottish.
I sense the decent journalists are becoming ashamed of the Fear tactics not being investigated or challenged.
Channel 4 – What a contrast between Darling and Pat Kane.
Darling repeating the same old threats and lies all based on a “constructed” news base. Pat Kane Cheerful, positive and confident.
I loved the quote of the headline from a “Scottish Newspaper”. The interviewer obviously doesn’t know that the title does not make it Scottish.
I sense the decent journalists are becoming ashamed of the Fear tactics not being investigated or challenged.
@Spaceboy 7.02 as you say some people are seriously deluded
and you dont need to look far from you own door, to see that,
I would suggest there is Space for more acurate information but
it would be wasted on a Spaceheid.
Jon Snow giving Darling semi-hard time on Ch 4 News!!!
Dick Gaughan
Are you practising covering a Pink Floyd song (Echoes):)
🙁
I don’t know why it appeared twice. Please don’t ban me. I’m already blocked from Newsnet for using ("Tractor" - Ed) (once).
@clootie
Yer a dumplin’
Channel 4 news was the most balanced piece I have seen broadcast for a very long time. Darling clearly not used to the robust line of questioning from Jon Snow; very different from the easy time he normally experiences from allies at the BBC and general MSM in Scotland.
Keep it up C4, almost felt like impartial old school genuine investigative reporting.
worth a watch !
@jinglyjangly
The only thing that would give Darling one of these…
…is a knighthood.
@Les Wilson says:
Cameron has just said in a BBC interview that Alex Salmond wants a currency union ” but that it is under threat “.
DOH, thought there was “NO CHANCE OF A CURRENCY UNION!
(apologies is this post appears twice)
The BT wheels have well and truly come off.
Dave C had a worried look on his face.
Dave C made it sound like Currency Union was back to ‘maybes aye, maybes naw’
but worst of all …
He stupidly used the ‘threat’ word twice.
(Eck ‘under threat’ over currency, Eck ‘under threat’ over EU)
This sort of schoolboy presentational error would never have happened in those Blair / Mandelson / Campbell days of old.
I thought Dave C had a PR background?
OK … just this once I’ll not be a chippy Scot and imagine I’m being threated again by the elites for the third time in five days.
I’ll not take it personally. I’ll put it down to posh boy insensitivity, stupidity … and worry …
Jings, I decided not to watch C4 news because I was so fed up with it all – switched to Winter Olympics instead and had to watch the Scottish curling team being cheered on in a flurry of union flags and red-white-and-blue pom-poms.
I should watch the C4 thing online, do you think? (But I actually like the ice dancing….)
a bit O/T, having a debate on fb on a friend’s page and someone came up with the statement that the UK is the second fastest growing economy… was wondering if this is a BT ‘fact’ or a BBC ‘fact’ ( same difference?) and if other people are hearing this? I went off looking for some info and came across this site which was quite useful.
link to conference-board.org
@spaceboy
“There are some seriously deluded people on this website. ”
Welcome aboard the debate – would suggest your first line is not the best way to win any argument and put your case forward. I mean that’s what your on here for – isn’t it ??
john king says:
“almost one of us, what?”
Should we be hearing that in a Bertie Wooster vernacular what?
“I say, Jeeves, damned natives are restless again. Think we should send Aunt Agatha up there? Or would a tank be better?”
“Is there a difference, sir?”
@ Bill Walters
“…There’s nothing preventing us from saying that an independent currency is a second option should the currency union not transpire….
All the other options are in the White Paper. If, after A YES vote, negotiations for a formal Sterling currency union fail then, it stands to reason, that one of the other options from the White Paper will be adopted. Any person can go and look at the White Paper and investigate for themselves the pros and cons of each of those other options (plan B, C, D etc) and satisfy themselves that the currency question will be resolved one way or another in indy Scotland–preferably the SG’s Plan A–well in advance of our independence day.
Is wings still under cyber attack ?
If so its shocking & pathetic – my sympathies to all at Wings HQ
“Is wings still under cyber attack?”
Yes.
Am I missing something?
BBC Scotland news this evening is talking about the latest Scottish employment figures showing the fastest growth in permanent jobs since 2006.
So permanent jobs in Scotland are growing at the fastest rate since 2006, in the teeth of all this FEARFUL UNCERTAINTY caused by reckless Eck and his separatist minions.
Whatever you are doing Eck … please don’t stop …
I bet Osborne just loves having a tax named after him. ”The George Tax” LOL
Caroline
I think they must mean in Europe because we are way behind in terms of growth in world terms. That said most of the UK growth is centred on London and the South East and in large part due to house price inflation. This is not sustainable (it is one of things that got us into this mess in the first place)
Appreciative comments can be sent to C4 at news@channel4.com.
They do occasionally reply. I quite often send Wings and Newsnet pieces which may be of interest. We need all the friends we can get!
no again
Here’s the Chanel 4 indy/currency Poll (thus far):
link to tinyurl.com
Kin invite earlier in these comments mentioned EU Citzenship and give a link to the EU. I was gobsmacked as right there on there own page it is giving the lie to Barroso. We cannot lose our rights as EU citizens living here in Scotland regardless of events. Logic tells me if I cannot be stateless then neither can my nation be made stateless. Further the EU like the UN supports the democratic rights of those who wish independence and of course any curious and unique denial of these rights to Scotland is absurd and dangerous to the reputation of anyone supporting such nonsense .
Please ,please those with a good turn of phrase contact the EU and get answers from them on these issues. Could I suggest they be asked for a declarator on human rights because we are suffering the uncertainty of our UK Government saying we will lose our EU citizenship and that is a cruel and unnatural punishment and breaches our human rights.
@spaceboy
The Unionist No providers of UK propaganda may well have ruled out a currency union as unworkable based on the report provided by a Treasury senior Civil Servant.
However I prefer the judgement of the four Economics Professors including two Nobel prize winners that were tasked with producing the report that the Scottish Government based their proposal on.
Badly misjudged the Scottish people, Westminster own goal. No one believes the bullshit they have been harping on about for over a year. Over and over, currency, EU, currency, EU. Yawnnn.
FAO Any monetary experts
Asked this on Twitter but whats the major difference between the Currency Union and the proposed Devo Max?
It’s very simplistic but as far as I understand they are almost identical in principle..
Currency Union :
BoE Central Bank with 2 Tax Authorities (rUk & Scotland) and borrowing limits.
Devo Max/Full Fiscal Autonomy
BoE Central Bank with 4-5 Tax Authorities (rUk,Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland..possibly England too) and borrowing limits.
So if Currency Union has been ruled out by OsBalls….they have surely made Devo Max/FFF undeliverable too.
I await the experts to telling me I’m a havering idiot
muttley
copy the address from the line above the video and paste it into your comment and it’ll come up (eventually it’ll take a few seconds) as the video simples 🙂
Hi folks – you can ‘refresh’ on quarantine, at least it works for us.
@spaceboy
The UK taxpayers being forced to bail out Scotland argument looks a bit threadbare when you remember that the UK put huge sums into ‘bailing out’ Ireland – when it had no legal or moral obligation to do so.
link to telegraph.co.uk
It did it voluntarily because Ireland is a significant trading partner, and damage to Ireland meant damage to UK.
Should a financial crisis ever hit Scotland, the same UK self-interest would apply. Whether that is formalised in a currency union or not does not actually make a great deal of difference to the pressures that would arise.
“Is there a difference, sir?”
what ho Dick
You get the feeling that the No campaign are beginning to realise their threats to Scotland have caused a lot of resentment. I would expect that those aligned and supportive of the No campaign are beginning to question their tactics.
You don’t have democratic legitimacy by issuing threats.
Check out the CH4 poll Cindie linked to at 6.38.
The numbers are astonishing – four questions, and none currently less than 80% Yes (the last, about Scotland being ‘allowed’ into EU, was 89% a few minutes ago.)
I have only watched about 1 minute of this but what is it with the constant blinking? Is there someone trapped inside that head with only control of the eyelids frantically signalling in morse code, “Get me out of here”.
@gillie says:
You get the feeling that the No campaign are beginning to realise their threats to Scotland have caused a lot of resentment.
I was joking last week after Gideon’s speech that NO-voters would no longer be able to admit this in polite company.
(Like what happened in the Thatcher era to Tory voters in Scotland)
I get the feeling that events are moving us down this road at a fairly brisk pace …
@ spaceboy
link to wingsoverscotland.com
@ spaceboy
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Still problems refreshing page & comments
Flippertygibbet
Famous 15
your doing alright yourself, why don’t you contact Thomas Rhymer of the ODIHR, nice guy he’ll respond Thomas Rymer
Spokesperson
OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR)
Tel: +48 22 520 0640
Mobile: +48 609 522 266
Just watched captain Darling again on Channel4 News. Flustered and gabbling through his interview with Jon Snow. Didn’t like the inference that Osborne’s lecture was disrespectful to the Scots. He even came out with the “look, I’m a proud Scot” bit. On the other hand, Pat Kane from the Yes Scotland Board was confident, relaxed, intelligent and convincing when he said he was excited about the possibilities that a Yes vote will bring and that the events of the past week were pushing the undecided towards that very conclusion.
Someone take the Darling sound but add Comical Ali video to it.
OMG! have just done the Channel 4 survey and currently 7500 respondents and 81% in favour of Yes. Can we send this info to Flipper or big Bliar..:)
Hi Caroline …
While it is true that the IMF is stating that the British economy is growing better than anyone else in the EU, it has to be put into context. What they’re saying is that the economy is heading back to pre-recession levels so essentially welcome back to 2007. That means the economy has to grow continually above 2007 levels (say 3-3.5%) to claw back what was lost to the economy over the past six years. In other words it will be 2019-21 (of sustained growth) before the UK will actually see benefits of a growing economy. Remember also this is a slow process for the government as it has £1.3 trillion debt and a massive pension black hole, not only that but peoples wages have been frozen or fallen below inflation and still a generally high unemployment rate.
This is why austerity measures will be in place for years to come, growth in the economy means nothing until the government and the country as a whole actually feels that change. That will happen but not until the end of this decade. When Labour said they would carry on with austerity measures when they get into power, what they actually mean is they have no choice but will be rewarded (as would the Tories) as being the party in power in 2020 when the recession ended and austerity measures cut. This is what the parties are playing for, hero status. Growth in the economy now, like shedding a half per cent off unemployment, is a propaganda tool for news headlines.
If Cameron wins 2015 GE (Scotland is a massive headache) then he will more than likely win 2020 as well as all the right-wing media will champion that his and Gideon’s austerity plan was right and good for the country, Maggie all over again. So while the economic forecast now sounds impressive the country is six years behind where it should be economically and we ourselves won’t feel any benefit for few years yet. And this is as long as there’s no hiccups along the way.
Hope that helps otherwise I’m talking pish 😉