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The angry mob

Posted on July 01, 2013 by

Yesterday the No campaign’s Rob Murray responded to allegations of scaremongering by complaining on Twitter that supporters of independence “don’t like debate”.

robmurray

For some unknown reason he didn’t reply to our observation that “Better Together” has banned hundreds of would-be debaters from its Facebook page for politely raising various awkward issues about “Project Fear”, but later the same day rather more disturbing news reached us of some events in the north of Scotland.

On Saturday the Twitter account of Louise Morton, apparently Women’s Officer of the Moray Labour Party, referred to an incident at the historic “Maggie Fair” in Garmouth, near Elgin. Responding to a claim that Yes Scotland activists had been “hounded out” of the fair, Morton tweeted “I found this highly amusing. Haha. #nolucknats”.

She subsequently noted that the activists in question had been “politely advised to leave” (adding “LOL”), retweeted a comment from local Labour councillor Sean Morton (who appears to be her son) that fair attendees had been “angry” about their presence, and claimed that “a LOT of people” had been objecting.

A slightly menacing picture was being painted, so we were pleased to be contacted with a fuller account from one of the Yes Scotland campaigners in question, Paul Donaldson. We reprint it below in full as received.

In just under 450 days time from now, the people of Scotland will be asked to make the most important decision they will ever have to make – whether we become an independent country. As part of the debate over this decision, over the summer months both the Yes and No campaigns are participating in hundreds of community events and local fairs all over Scotland.

Being present at community events allows both Yes and No campaigns to engage more directly with the public and in a different way to that which takes place in the mainstream media. As part of our ongoing campaign to raise public awareness of issues in the independence debate, we recently approached the organisers of the Maggie Fair, to ask if we would be allowed to have a stall – as we have for many other events in Moray.

We were told that Yes Scotland would be allowed an information stall at Maggie Fair, only if the No campaign took up an offer to also have a similar stall. Our understanding is that the No campaign did not take up this offer, but the committee told us the decision of the committee (although not the unanimous decision) was that a small group of volunteers would be allowed to hand out materials in the park, as long as we did not do so in the main street.

We respected the decision of the committee not to allow us to have a stall or to do any fundraising, but were grateful to them for allowing us to have a presence moving around the park. We spoke with the committee member two days before the fair to confirm that we would still be allowed to attend, and no indication was given of there being any potential problem.

On arrival at the park in Garmouth on Saturday afternoon, we were immediately questioned by someone who asked us who had given us permission to be there and we told them the name of the committee member who had given us permission. Shortly after that we met the committee member we had made the arrangements with, who greeted us and welcomed us to the fair.

Some local residents who were clearly unhappy with our presence at Maggie Fair made their views known to the committee member and ourselves, but they were told by the committee member that we had made the request through the proper channels and that we were welcome to stay there.

After some time, it became apparent that the small group of unhappy residents simply did not want us there. Eventually it was mentioned to us that there was a beer tent at the fair and after a few drinks things “could turn a bit nasty” with some of the objectors. At this point the small group of three volunteers made the decision to leave the park in order to avoid any potential problems later on.

At no point were volunteers of Yes Scotland asked to leave the park by the organising committee member who we had been liaising with. We would like to thank the Maggie Fair organising committee for allowing volunteers from the Yes Scotland to attend their fair and if allowed back next year, we would look forward to the opportunity to give members of the public information that they have been asking us for and raise awareness of the referendum campaign.

Mr Donaldson’s account of events seems to tally with Ms Morton’s, in that there was a clear element of threat against what was an officially-sanctioned presence – with Ms Morton’s account saying that the activists were “advised” to leave, rather than “asked”.

Interestingly, another comment retweeted by Ms Morton on the Saturday came from Better Together Moray, the official regional arm of the campaign:

btmoray

So what do we know for certain?

1. Yes Scotland requested permission to attend the event in an official capacity, through the proper channels, and were granted it.

2. “Lots” of Better Together supporters were also at the event.

3. “a LOT of” the fair’s attendees were allegedly “angry” at the presence of the Yes Scotland representatives.

4. The Yes activists report that they were warned of possible violence if they didn’t leave, and they elected to do so for their own safety and that of others.

5. An officer of the local Labour party professed to find the “hounding out” of the activists with the threat of violence “highly amusing”.

We cannot, of course, make any direct connection between “Better Together” and an “angry” crowd containing “lots” of its supporters intimidating three peaceful volunteers with official permission to be at the fair into leaving, on pain of a drunken beating. There may have been no crossover at all between the many No supporters and the angry people who the Yes activists were warned might assault them.

All we can say for certain is that “Better Together” demonstrably doesn’t like people putting forward polite and reasoned arguments against it in public, from which readers may or may not wish to form their own judgements.

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200 to “The angry mob”

  1. Yobbish Britnat intimidation seems to have been a theme of the weekend. This from Edinburgh: Royal Mile Fight Arrests After Loyalist March.

  2. CameronB says:

    Let’s ask the ‘Truth Team’ what happened.

  3. Doug Daniel says:

    Still, those bloody Cybernats, eh? Calling people names online and whatnot. Put it into perspective, Stu!

  4. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    Never heard of the ‘Maggie Fair’ until this happened.
     
    I’m probably not the only one who will now associate the name with bullying, intolerance, and rank stupidity. Not very ‘fair’, but that’s perception for ya.
     
    The organisers must be ever-so pleased with BT.

  5. Paul Martin says:

    I’m aware that this is part of the current strategy of the No campaign, particularly in areas where they have council or other organisational influence in communities (Labour or otherwise)
     
    They know they can’t match the Yes campaign in terms of bodies and the number of stalls that Yes could put out on any given day. So they instead seek to close down the opportunities for Yes stalls by (as in this case) seeking equivalent No representation. Or they find some other reason based on some other spurious criteria that allows them to prevent Yes from setting up a stall on that day. 
     
    They can’t match Yes on the ground so they’re actively finding ways to prevent Yes from taking part in events and being seen.

  6. K Mackay says:

    Can you imagine if this had all been the other way round? The press would be calling us fascists for months and demanding resignations from the YES campaign and the SNP. Maximum respect for the brave few trying to get the YES message out there despite aggression. The BitterTogetherers must really be shitting it if they’re threatening violence over some flyering, what’s wrong with these people?!
     
     I don’t imagine this will be the last time we’ll see this sort of thing I’m afraid. Guess we’re definitely at the ‘then they fight you, then you win.’ bit of Ghandi’s quote.

  7. Max says:

     
    They must be knee deep in keech in Garmouth.  Poor sods.

  8. raineach says:

    This tactic is also being applied in Edinburgh – calling any such event ‘non-political’ and seeking refusal to allow a stall because they don’t have enough volunteers to staff their own

  9. muttley79 says:

    I honestly cannot say I am surprised by this.  SLAB in particular have lost the plot in the last few years (the Unionist wing at any rate).  Their rhetoric has got more and more extreme.  The depth of hatred is shown by the SLAB official’s remarks.  It is pathetic and indicative of how a once great party has now sunk so low.  They now seem to be wanting to have an alliance with the likes of the Orange Order, thereby ensuring that this kind of an incident takes place.  The No campaign want to make the referendum campaign as ugly as possible.  They want people to be sickened by the whole process.  We cannot afford to take their bait.  The No campaign are effectively trolls.   

  10. Doug Daniel says:

    A couple of things I find interesting about this are:
     
    1. It wasn’t a unanimous decision to let the Yes campaigners hand out flyers (so some of the committee were against people being given information about the referendum)
     
    2. For some reason the No campaign turned down the chance to have a stall, despite clearly having at least a few unionist campaigners at the event. Is this because they didn’t have enough resources to set one up (perhaps their “grassroots” campaigners were busy being “grassroots” campaigners somewhere else), or did they simply feel it was more important to deny the Yes campaign the chance to give people information?

  11. Slaughterhouse says:

    Thanks for the link, Roddy. I live quite near the Meadows, and was wondering if some event had taken place, as one of the parks was totally disgusting. I’d suspected it must have been some Orange related idiocy, as the place is only ever manky after that lot turn up. Everyone else cleans up after themselves. Just shows that they really are filth.

  12. Max says:

     
    Maggie Fair was originally a SLAVE MARKET.
     
    How keech is that?

  13. Iain says:

    I see from Rev Stu’s Twitter feed legal advice is yet again to be taken. Surely only a matter of time before the Arkell v. Pressdram precedent is deployed.

  14. Juteman says:

    I can’t wait to see Reporting Scotland tonight.

  15. K Mackay says:

    Max, I was going to ask earlier what is the Maggie fair, why such a magnet for angry unionists? Think you may have answered my question, must be like a leyline drawing them in!

  16. Doug says:

    Bettertogether and silencing debate.Almost synonymous. As aperson banned from their Facebook page for no good reason beyond politely challenging their narrative, I am unsurprised. This, however, is something else. One wonders if the angry ones were bussed in especially. THAT would be something.

  17. muttley79 says:

    @Juteman
     
    I can’t wait to see Reporting Scotland tonight.

    Hear no evil, speak no evil..

  18. Magnus Barelegs says:

    Just sums those “loyal” britnat types up perfectly. Running scared or what? Maybe that Morton woman and her fellow brit chums should have kept their deluded gloating to themselves…….epic fail.

  19. muttley79 says:

    The irony is they are always asking the Yes campaign for information.  😀

  20. Jiggsbro says:

    I see from Rev Stu’s Twitter feed legal advice is yet again to be taken.
     
    And quite right, too. Unlike responsible journalists, who only report on things they have witnessed first-hand, the Rev’s article is HEARSAY!!!
     
    Although that may have been Ms. Morton misspelling HERESY!!

  21. Max says:

     
    From Garmouth Tourist Information, “Garmouth is the location of one of the longest surviving village fairs in the country. Maggie Fair is held on the last Saturday in June each year and people come from all around to browse and buy from stalls selling everything from crafts and baking, flowers and books, beer and bigots.”

  22. Jiggsbro says:

    As a person banned from their Facebook page for no good reason beyond politely challenging their narrative, I am unsurprised.
     
    I haven’t been banned from their page. I feel discriminated against and may sue them for emotional damage. I shall contact my solicitor.
     
    My solicitor has informed me that, as I have never visited their page and they are unaware of my existence, I may not have a case. I intend to sue him for emotional damage.

  23. K Mackay says:

    Max, they’re selling bigots at the fair? Is some eejit farming them? I don’t keep up with trends, are they going to be the next ‘must have’ item? Scary thought!

  24. Iain More says:

    It is just along the coast from me. I wont be attending ever again. I wasn’t at the event this year as I have ben in past years as I had other things that I had to do that day. I certainly wouldn’t have left in the face of threats from British Fascists! But then I am 6ft 3 inches and 200lbs, I would have liked to see them try.

  25. The Man in the Jar says:

    If and when I man a Yes stall and some unionist idiot tries to intimidate me I wont antagonise but if I am in the right there is no way that I will back down. If the situation escalates I will be more than happy to “take one for the team” and I will shout it from the rooftops. If it happens you will hear about it here first.

  26. Doug says:

    Jiggsbro – re: banning
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hou0lU8WMgo
     

  27. Yesitis says:

    Project Fear. Project Intimidation. Project ____?

  28. The Man in the Jar says:

    @K Mackay
    Indeed it is a new breed “The Bigadoodle” they are pretty useless as all they do is make a lot of noise and chase their own tails all day!

  29. Jamie Arriere says:

    Maybe campaigning at an event named after Thatcher was a futile effort anyway. Naethin bit stony grun here!!
     
    Maybe this is another BT tactic. Behave so appallingly that the electorate wouldn’t want to share a country with them….

  30. K Mackay says:

    Iain and man in jar, totally with you, if this becomes a regular occurrence (not saying it will) maybe some of us form some sort of human shield team? Usually I think passive resistance is a bit daft but in this circumstance I think nothing would scare them more than folk prepared to take whatever they can hand out totally calmly without retaliating. 

  31. bawheid bragg says:

    Would it be completely hysterical to see the Orange Order/Scottish Defence League as the Brown Shirts of Better Together?
     

  32. HandandShrimp says:

    Yesitis
     
    That is what it looks like – the sort of political intimidation you would expect in less democratic parts of the world. It would seem that it is endorsed by Project Fear too. Something we have to take on board and catch with cameras and recordings – there is no stone too low for these people and the ordinary voters need to see that.

  33. panda paws says:

    Well I’ve helped (wo)man two Yes stalls and on both occasions the police have been “called” and spoken to our organiser taking his details. We were also banned from setting up a public park, apparently on the instigation of a Labour counciilor. Obvously they are completely sure of winning the referendum and not at all worried about the Yes campaign!
     
     

  34. Max says:

     
    It would appear that the organising committee member who gave permission for Yes Scotland campaigners to attend the Maggie Fair has been FORCED to resign.
     
    Who would have thought a wee place like Garmouth would be so split down the middle on who gets to attend a local fair. 
     
    Maggie Fair 2013 turned out to be keech after all. 

  35. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “It would appear that the organising committee member who gave permission for Yes Scotland campaigners to attend the Maggie Fair has been FORCED to resign.”

    Do you have any more info on this, or are you just going by the same tweets I’ve seen? Trying to find out more, nothing so far.

  36. HandandShrimp says:

    Jamie
     
    LOL – Actually Maggie fairs date back hundreds of years and pre-date the Union of Parliament and Union of the Crowns. You couldn’t get anything more Scottish.
     
    That said, one might find the inhabitants of gentrified villages like Garmouth a wee bit Tory.

  37. Bill C says:

    I live in  Aberdeenshire and travel frequently to Moray. I would make 5 observations:
    1. There is a significant UK military presence in Moray and the local economy depends heavily  on the trade from service personnel.  Some of whom, as we know, are not sympathetic to the YES cause. Locals may also feel that their livelihoods are threatened by independence.
    2. There seems to be a fair amount of support for Rangers Football Club/Loyalism in Moray and while not all Rangers supporters are pro-union, I think it is safe to say that there is strong support for the union amongst Rangers fans.
    3. Aberdeenshire like Moray, has a significant influx of residents from south of the Border. My experience recently (i.e. since the date of the referendum was  announced) has been that I have been the subject of some verbal hostility (because I wear a YES button/badge at all times) from some English people in my area.  Some of the comments have been straight from the English gutter press; “Salmond is a racist”, “The SNP is the Scottish BNP”, that sort of tripe.  In saying that, some English folk I know are very pro-independence and are actually working for a YES vote.
    4. The comments from the Labour activist are despicable but not surprising, those of us from a West of Scotland background, know only too well that Labour are experts in the tactic of divide and rule.
    5. Anti-independence hostility will only increase as we near the referendum date, YES campaigners should be aware that they may not always receive a welcome.
     

  38. Max says:

     
    Contact organiser Ginny Slater on 01343 870514

  39. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Contact organiser Ginny Slater on 01343 870514”

    The same person who tweeted the original “hounded out” line? Interesting.

  40. Betsy says:

    @everyone,
    I urge you all to go now and have a look at the Wings twitter feed. It appears this article hasn’t gone down to well in certain quarters. It’s hilarious! One woman has got so fizzing mad at the whole thing that she called the rev a ‘vicious insidious pied-piper of a cybernat’ which may be the greatest insult ever to be hurled at yes supporter by a No Scotlander. I doubt it can be beaten.  

    Yon Louise Morton is a card! I’d love to be a fly on the wall at her lawyers office when she explains that she wants to sue but can’t actually explain specifically what is incorrect in the article and has refused to supply the author with any information whatsoever to allow corrections to be made. 
    I must say I love the No Scotlanders and their flair for unconscious comedy. I never in my wildest imaginings believed they’d ever top the stamp question in 500 questions but how wrong I was. 

  41. Max says:

     
     
    http://www.northern-scot.co.uk/News/Fault-leads-to-sewage-spill-28062013.htm
     
    It would appear the whole area was smelling of keech. 

  42. Max
     
    That’ll be the Ginny Slater of London & Kinston-on-Spey who tweeted #YesScotland got hounded out of the 426th Maggie Fair!

  43. john king says:

    “Would it be completely hysterical to see the Orange Order/Scottish Defence League as the Brown Shirts of Better Together?”
     
    dont give em ideas

  44. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they come to fight you, and then you win.”
     

  45. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Contact organiser Ginny Slater on 01343 870514”

    No answer landline or mobile, will try later.

  46. HandandShrimp says:

    There is no doubt these people will get nastier and more snake like as the debate goes on. They have nothing to offer and nothing to say other “we are all doomed” and consequently you inevitably get the nasty reaction to a positive campaign. “Yes” is cheerful “No” is just plain bloody miserable….and drunkenly violent it would seem. Charming people.  
     
     

  47. Looks like you may get the chance to cite Arkell v. Pressdram (1971) after  all, Rev. Though I dare say you won’t be holding your breath waiting for a letter from her learned friends.

  48. muttley79 says:

    @Betsy
     
    vicious insidious pied-piper of a cybernat’
     
    Get it framed Rev Stu!!  😀
     

  49. Magnus Barelegs says:

    Ginny Slater of London and Kingston on Spey??? Seems like the “southern oh yah” types are running the show in Moray, no wonder they are seen as natural allies by the local homegrown brit types.

  50. Vronsky says:

    “Is this because they didn’t have enough resources to set one up”

    Absolutely certainly.  They are not a grass roots movement (unless you count the Orange Order, but that’s more hogweed than grass).  We need to figure out peaceful ways of dealing with this – the social asymmetry between the camps (BT: professional troughers, a small elite; YesScotland: ordinary folk and many in number) can easily be expressed in public demonstration.  When I was out for Yes on Saturday at a local fair, BT were nowhere to be seen.  We have our sources, and we knew we had been noticed and that some phone calls were made, but they couldn’t get anyone out – there was no-one to get.  If you watch the BBC or read the press, you’d think that in terms of popular passion this debate is evenly matched.  It ain’t, and they need to hide that.

    As for Ms Morton’s girlish titterings in favour of violence – well, why should we be surprised at that – look at their methods in the Middle East.  We’re not arguing a political point with reasonable opponents here – we’re pitting ourselves against the scum of a kakistocracy.  However, let’s stay calm and keep our dignity.  They’re going to lose and they’re behaving like shits because they know it.

  51. Cath says:

    Interesting. So the organiser who originally tweets #yesScotland was “hounded out” is London and Kingston based. And the person who tweeted that the organiser who allowed Yes in has now “resigned” is the same Labour person who was “amused” by the threats and hounding out?
     
    How very democratic these people are.

  52. sneddon says:

    The Stoneybridge Maggies Fair organising committee – point and laugh 🙂
    I’m going next year in my YES hat, YES t-shirt and YES kagoul

  53. John Lyons says:

    Something we have to take on board and catch with cameras and recordings
     
    Damn right Dude. In this day and age where everyone has cameras on their phones, get filming and get these threats on the net. If this was done in several places we’d soon find out if the threats were coming from the same faces. Maybe start a facebook page for the rogues gallery, call it the parcel…ha ha.

  54. Davy says:

    Well I bide in Moray “Keith area” actually, and I was told a story a couple of months back, about a labour counciller, who when he tweets a comment online and someone challenges it, his mother comes online and immediately attacks the person that has challenged him. They are know as a local joke and I suspect this is the pair mentioned in your article, I will have to check with my mate, cause their cant be many people as daft as that in the whole country.
     
    Also don’t ever back off from any unionist “NO campaigners” , this is our referendum for our country, I wear my YES badge all the time and am proud to do so.
     
    Alba Gu snooker loopy!
     

  55. Iain More says:

    I have written to the Editor of the thus far politically neutral Northern Scot, just to give it a stir. Oh and to ask that paper call for the resignation of a certain Brit Nat hack Councillor who betrays the memory of a generation of Scots that fought against the evils of Nazism and Fascism.
    I was actually enjoying the piping contests in Forres this last weekend where I received zero threats inspite of my obvious YES attire. Obviously a crew of evil separatists in Forres then.

  56. Better Together have always been an Astroturf rather than a grassroots campaign. Even their big ‘Campaign Weekend’ on 22 Jun only got up to @ 13 events by separating out what was to happen in the same place on Fri, Sat & Sun and calling them separate events.
     
    These were mostly leafletting which Yes Scotland wouldn’t even bother putting on their event calendar it’s so common.

  57. Cath says:

    I’m going next year in my YES hat, YES t-shirt and YES kagoul
     
    Good idea. They can stop you having stalls and hound out those seen to be “campaigning”. Let them try to ban people wearing whatever T-shirts and badges we want to wear.

  58. Craig M says:

    Vronsky
    Well said.
    I would also add that the unswerving allegiance to BT indicates a very strong association with Child Poverty, Corruption and Social Injustice. In particular, the Labour Party has gone so far into extreme Victorian era thinking that it is now simply a parody of a character from a Dickens novel.
     
    It boils down to this. The Westminster system is so rotten that there is only one constitutional escape route for a fairer society. That is independence. Failure to see this, or failure to align to this principle is simply a statement on the part of the BT supporter, whether Labour, Lib or Tory, that children growing up in poverty, abandonment of fair access to services or, indeed, adherence to normal democratic principles are acceptable collateral damage in defence of the rotten Westminster Establishment.

  59. Craig Munro says:

    Hey Stu … Badgersarse has been closed down and I’m now on @fankledoose … please follow as this is all great stuff 🙂

  60. HeatherMcLean says:

    I was asked by my head teacher at school to remove my YES badge from my coat collar. This apparently came from one of the HMI inspectors who were visiting the school. I refused and told her that unless I was instructed to do so by the Education Convenor I would continue to wear it. Apparently, I could be construed as ‘indoctrinating’ my class of 8 year olds had any of them asked about the badge! Since I don’t wear my coat in the classroom and it is only visible when I am entering the building at 8 am and leaving at 4.30pm, I didn’t think any of the said pupils would be around to actually see it!!
    I was so angry that I actually wrote to Mike Russell for his take on it, seeing as he is the Education Minister and as such the boss of HMI. Not had a reply yet though!
    I asked if I’d have to stop using the staff car park or parking in the street opposite the school, since the YES stickers on my car would also be visible to the school children! 😉

  61. Dan huil says:

    Maggie Fair is frequented by Scottish/English huntin’,shootin’ fishin’ types who are vehemently against the EU in general and the Scottish government’s wind farm policy in particular.Ukip types in other words,who would gladly burn down Holyrood given half a chance.
    All credit to the Yes campaigners for having the guts to attend.

  62. Cath says:

    I realise it’s well know people in Scotlandshire “age faster” than in the rest of the UK but are they seriously suggesting 8 year olds will be able to vote by next year?

  63. HeatherMcLean says:

    “I realise it’s well know people in Scotlandshire “age faster” than in the rest of the UK but are they seriously suggesting 8 year olds will be able to vote by next year?”
    I know!! Isn’t it just an indication of how ridiculous the demand was?

  64. sneddon says:

    As much as a dick as Louise  https://twitter.com/SeanMortonUK

  65. Taranaich says:

    @Doug Daniel: 2. For some reason the No campaign turned down the chance to have a stall, despite clearly having at least a few unionist campaigners at the event. Is this because they didn’t have enough resources to set one up (perhaps their “grassroots” campaigners were busy being “grassroots” campaigners somewhere else), or did they simply feel it was more important to deny the Yes campaign the chance to give people information?
     
    This is what stood out to me. For people lamenting the Yes campaign’s apparent fear of debate, they sure don’t seem to be interested in the concept at all. Obviously they felt it was more important to deny the Yes campaign a chance to disseminate information, because information is their enemy. That’s why they can never have debate: because they would lose. Hard.

  66. DaveB says:

    I was at the Maggie Fair & spent some time speaking with Paul, and although I didn’t witness the ladies having words with them later, I did witness one well kent local resident, who was the person who stopped Paul & friends on their arrival, talking with the councillor and gesticulating in our direction. It was clear they were far from happy.
    I’ll also confirm that in all my wanderings around the fair, in the beer tent & without, I came across no anger on the part of anybody directed at Yes, in fact the only comments I heard all day were at the expense of the person who had initially stopped Paul and was later seen talking to the Councillor. As I said, they’re well kent.
    Once again it appears that No have done their cause no favours.

  67. Susan S says:

    I have to admit an unabiding fear that this is just the start of what could be a vicious and violent campaign trail, especially on the run up to September next year.    Unless we go underground and pretend we’ve given up – thus ensuring the BT crowd just don’t bother voting.  Smug in the knowledge that their little piece of UK existence will remain exactly that. 

  68. Cath says:

    “That’s why they can never have debate: because they would lose. Hard.”
     
    Exactly this. Those hounding out the yes campaign could simply have had their own stall otherwise, if they had any confidence in their arguments. They don’t have an argument though: they have derision, lies, intimidation and threats.

  69. Marker Post says:

    Spent a half-hour going through the tweets, enough to make you despair.
     
    In response to “daftquine” who had tweeted, “I live in a little wee village, and we have a big [independence] fanatic here, and he’s very active. Wadda PAIN it is too”, Louise Morton answered, “I know the type, they do my head in”.
     
    What “type” would that be, Louise?
     

  70. Mosstrooper says:

    @ Susan s
     Go underground? In my own country while fighting for it’s independence?
    Eehh!…… Naw

  71. Yesitis says:

    Hey Louise, it`s a ‘free country’
    https://twitter.com/Paulmoravia/status/351293039643328515

  72. DaveB says:

    A couple of points.
    Not sure where the notion of the Maggie Fair being a hotbed of huntin shootin fishin UKIP types has come from, not that it was a slave market. But it’s nonsense. Stick to facts.
    Ginny. I’ve no idea what her politics are. But she’s OK.

  73. Edward Barbour says:

    Perhaps I can suggest the Yes campaigners go to the Fochabers Village Gala, with permission from the Fochabers Village association of course
    Fochabers Gala 19 – 21 July
    But in the event that they are allowed to set up a stall, that there are a couple of ‘undercover’ people recording and taking pictures in the event of any disturbance by Better Together
    Its a shame that it comes to that, but its about time Yes and pro independence started to get clever
    http://fochabersva.jimdo.com/

  74. Yesitis says:

    Marker Post
    In response to “daftquine” who had tweeted, “I live in a little wee village, and we have a big [independence] fanatic here, and he’s very active. Wadda PAIN it is too”, Louise Morton answered, “I know the type, they do my head in”.
     
    Indeed. Tory and Labour types are now bestest friends forever. Who knew?
    I suppose that should be the lesson learned; that there is no Conservative or Labour party in Scotland – there are just unionists.

  75. Max says:

     
    Fochabers Gala 19 – 21 July ???
     
    The Baxters are Better Together donors
     
    Too much keech for my liking. 

  76. HandandShrimp says:

    Dave B
     
    Is this looking like a couple of individuals desperately stirring things rather than any actual issue with the Yes Scotland people being there on the day? That there was no actual threat just an implied one from the Bitter Types?

  77. Edward Barbour says:

    Its apparent from the comment by DaveB who was at the Maggie fair, that there was no actual likelihood of trouble (from the beer tent). This was an false assumption on the part of the  small vocal anti independence faction, to intimidate those supporting independence.
    I find it sickening in this day and age we have to put up with such ‘brownshirt’ tactics of the idiots that are against Independence. Its aim is to close down free and democratic speech, by creating the allusion that there will be trouble, when in reality there wouldn’t be.
    I’m also sure that the majority of the citizenry of the attendees of the fair would not bother one way or other. Its a pity that a small vocal minority feel they have to prove something by attacking pro independence in this fashion

  78. Robert Bryce says:

    AND SO IT BEGINS! (Said in my best booming Brian Blessed voice).

    A bit earlier than I expected mind. I remember a trade unionist fella at the inaugural Yes campaign meeting in East Dunbartonshire warning that the fight will get seriously dirty as the state moved to protect the union. His prediction appears manifest.
    This isn’t an isolated incident BTW.

    Members of my local Yes group were asked to leave a local Gala. When the local council leader said “Look, I’m not arguing with you”, the yes campaigner replied “Good, coz wur no leaving!” and carried on with his campaigning.

    It turned out be a successfull day I’m told with lashings of public support for independence 🙂
     
    As others have said before, they know they can’t win the argument.

    They will go on an all out offensive with their mass hoardes of grassroots support (OK, a few local unionist apparatchicks from the cooncil and any family thay can rope into it) to stifle the debate aided and abetted by the British Proganda Corporation and their Orange Order enforcers. 

  79. Jiggsbro says:

    If the Rev is a pied piper, are we cyberrats?
     
    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m935se37nh1r4wifoo1_500.jpg

  80. Jiggsbro says:

    I remember a trade unionist fella at the inaugural Yes campaign meeting in East Dunbartonshire warning that the fight will get seriously dirty as the state moved to protect the union. His prediction appears manifest.
     
    I’m not sure a few Labour apparatchiks throwing their weight around counts as the state protecting the union. It’s more like the pigs protecting the trough.

  81. Max says:

     
    For all those Little Britishers out there.
     
    http://www.cafepress.co.uk/mf/79476172/scottish-independence-projectfear_tshirt
     
    It is enough to make you keech your pants – if you were so inclined. 

  82. Robert Bryce says:

    Jiggsbro says:
    1 July, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    I remember a trade unionist fella at the inaugural Yes campaign meeting in East Dunbartonshire warning that the fight will get seriously dirty as the state moved to protect the union. His prediction appears manifest.
     
    I’m not sure a few Labour apparatchiks throwing their weight around counts as the state protecting the union. It’s more like the pigs protecting the trough.
     
    Let’s hope your correct Jiggsbro.

  83. alexicon says:

    Max says:
    1 July, 2013 at 2:45 pm

     
    Contact organiser Ginny Slater on 01343 870514
     
    Never mind contacting him, contact the police right away, a complaint can still be made.
     
    I like many on here will never be intimidated by these type of people and I’m more than capable of standing my ground.
     
    I recently saw the no team (2 of) in my town using a young boy of around 12 to hand out leaflets, they were probably to afraid of the comments they may receive from the public.

  84. Rod Mac says:

    2. For some reason the No campaign turned down the chance to have a stall, despite clearly having at least a few unionist campaigners at the event. Is this because they didn’t have enough resources to set one up (perhaps their “grassroots” campaigners were busy being “grassroots” campaigners somewhere else), or did they simply feel it was more important to deny the Yes campaign the chance to give people information?
    ========================================================
    No I would suggest the charms of the Beer tent held more appeal than being asked to give a positive case for the union.

  85. Andy-B says:

    No Rev, you’re quite correct their can be no connection, to BT, but the fact that Louise Morton, found it “Highly Amusing” that person, or persons could have been attacked, is in itself despicable. Hopefully this will just be a one off occurence., Lets see how amusing Louise Morton finds it, when independence is obtained next year.

  86. Rod Mac says:

    At the recent Barrhead Gala Day held in cowan park 1st June.
    The YES Campaign had their stall on opposite side of the road to the park and not inside.
    However it was a joy to see all the kids walking about with Saltire flags and YES Balloons given to them.
    Needless to say  BT nowhere to be seen

  87. Andy-B says:

    @Bawheid Bragg
    Orange Order the new brown shirts.
    Pretty sure articles in the Herald & Scotsman of recent times have delcared that the high heid yins, of the Orange Order, have firmly hinted that their members are to vote naw, think I’ll go out this Saturday and pass out YES leaflets, to them as they strut there silly march all around Glasgow, better take my bicycle just incase a quick getaway is required.

  88. Vronsky says:

    “better take my bicycle just incase a quick getaway is required”
     
    Tape a bar of soap to the end of a pole.  You can hold them at bay for ever with that.

  89. Juteman says:

    If  someone was to say 30 years ago that Irish republican Labour folk, the Orange Order and the likes of Michael Forsyth were all on the same side, they would have been spending time in the house of nonsense.
    Totally surreal.

  90. DaveB says:

    HandandShrimp
    “Is this looking like…”
    That would be a fair interpretation.
     

  91. Yesitis says:

    So, this turns into a case of nasty CyberNats?
    https://twitter.com/MrBarryJarvis/status/351739438201712640
     

  92. Murray McCallum says:

    Seems to be a particular ignorant and bitter element in Moray Labour Party.  Wasn’t that where a Labour election candidate referred to the elderly as “coffin dodgers” and joked about slavery? With talent like that I guess you will always struggle to win an open debate and therefore be inclined to use backward instincts.

  93. Angus McLellan says:

    Why has my Twitter gone mad? Silly season started early? Oh, so it’s your fault Rev Stu.

  94. Doug says:

    Murray McCallum
     
    Indeed it was – well reported and he resigned. Up here we have thTories as our 2nd party and Labour are nowhere. Our council is Tory(with 3)/independent despite the SNP being the biggest by far.

    Edit- Fochabers/Lhanbryde is a rare beast with 1 each for SLAB/Tory/SNP. Sean Morton being the SLAB one.

  95. john king says:

    Susan S says:
    1 July, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    I have to admit an unabiding fear that this is just the start of what could be a vicious and violent campaign trail, especially on the run up to September next year.    Unless we go underground and pretend we’ve given up – thus ensuring the BT crowd just don’t bother voting.  Smug in the knowledge that their little piece of UK existence will remain exactly that. “
     
    we’re not the maquis susan and they’re not the germans and this isnt 1941
    lets not overreact here

  96. Dodo footer says:

    Not the first time I’m afraid. South Ayrshire Yes activists were recently invited to leave the Prestwick Promemade gala by the local constabulary after complaints from organisers. Informal leafleting and general engagement with the public was the alleged crime! BT don’t want debate. As soon as people engage with the issues the danger for BT is that see the lies for what they are.

  97. Another London Dividend says:

    AS this is the silly season for the NO Scotland campaign how about a caption competition for this Labour MP in full regalia.
    http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/129873-important-question-for-ian-murray/

  98. dinnatouch says:

    While we’re on the subject of Twitter, I discovered today that I’m blocked from following @WingsScotland. What did I do wrong?

  99. panda paws says:

    @Rod Mac
    Ah Cowan Park, the park we weren’t allowed in. I wonder what the French journalist who came and inteviewed a few of us thought about that!!

  100. Rod Mac says:

    Slightly O/T but along the same lines of stifling debate.
    I have yet again been banned from the Scotsman site  for alleged a “personal attack”
    Now I for the life of me cannot see the offence that could be taken from this and would like to share it with you and hear if I am indeed a nasty cybernat.
    Why they feel the need to ban me seems a little over the top to me.
     
    We have removed your post from scotsman.com for a personal attack, which is a violation of the Terms of Service. Please note we will remove any profiles that continue to breach these terms which can be found at http://www.johnstonpress.co.uk/terms-access-website.In Response to:Scottish independence: ?Phone bills could soar?Comment Removed:Although it has been voted on it is by no means definite. The mobile telecoms companies are still contesting it=================================================================Two weeks ago, commissioners voted to end the charges completely as soon as July 2014 to help create a single European telecoms market”Cyborg we know as a unionist you believe ANYTHING they tell you ,however read slowy (sound it if need be)VOTED TO END ,no amount of appealing ,complaining or lobbying by mobile thieves will make a bit of differenceVOTED TO ENDLondon lying AGAIN!!!

  101. Frazer Allan Whyte says:

    Please please please, after following WoS for several months now I too want to be a ‘vicious insidious pied-piper of a cybernat’ but I fear I lack the computer skills – is there some sort of training available or at least a t-shirt for sale?

  102. Jiggsbro says:

    Now I for the life of me cannot see the offence that could be taken from this
     
    Really? You can’t see the offence in “Cyborg we know as a unionist you believe ANYTHING they tell you”? You can’t recognise that as a personal attack on a poster and not  a comment on the story? The Scotsman would be wise to ban you, because I’m not sure you can be trusted with the internet.

  103. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “While we’re on the subject of Twitter, I discovered today that I’m blocked from following @WingsScotland. What did I do wrong?”

    Not a clue. What’s your Twitter name?

  104. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “South Ayrshire Yes activists were recently invited to leave the Prestwick Promemade gala by the local constabulary”

    How firm was this “invitation”?

  105. dinnatouch says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    Not a clue. What’s your Twitter name?
     
    @dinnatouch

  106. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “You can’t recognise that as a personal attack on a poster and not  a comment on the story?”

    To be STRICTLY fair, that’s semantically an attack on ALL Unionists, not on any individual person.

  107. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    In other news, I’ve finally figured out what causes the horribly disruptive [cite] tag to appear in the code of posts. It happens if you cut and paste someone’s ENTIRE comment – including, crucially, the “Person X says” bit at the top – into your comment.

    If you don’t include that bit, we don’t get a [cite] tag and my blood pressure doesn’t get dangerous. It’s nothing to do with links, Bugger (The Panda).

    So don’t include the “Person X says” bit when quoting someone, and there won’t be any need for unpleasant and messy scenes in which everyone is banned and then brutally killed.

  108. dinnatouch says:

    So don’t include the “Person X says” bit when quoting someone, and there won’t be any need for unpleasant and messy scenes in which everyone is banned and then brutally killed.
     
    My bad?

  109. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

     

    “@dinnatouch”

    Then I have no recollection of blocking you. Have you recently posted a tweet containing a really long string with no spaces in it, like “aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhh” or similar? Because I insta-block people for those.

  110. dinnatouch says:

    I never do longer than aaarrrggghhh, and even then not recently

  111. If she is the Moray Labour Women’s Officer, she would not seem to be terribly effective. 3 of the SNP’s 9 councillors are women whereas all 3 of Labour’s councillors are men.

    The 3 Tories are all men as well. – Running neck-and-neck with the Tories eh? They must be proud! – However, as 4 of the 11 independent councillors are women it doesn’t particularly seem to be misogyny in the electorate that is at play, but among internal party selection procedures.

  112. Rod Mac says:

     
    panda paws says:
    1 July, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    @Rod MacAh Cowan Park, the park we weren’t allowed in. I wonder what the French journalist who came and inteviewed a few of us thought about that!!=================================================================================
    Ah then it seems we might indeed know one another ,at the next YES  event in our area I will seek out  Panda paws  
     

  113. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I never do longer than aaarrrggghhh, and even then not recently”

    It’s a mystery, then. Unblocked you now, but DON’T DO WHATEVER IT WAS AGAIN.

  114. dinnatouch says:

    It’s a mystery, then. Unblocked you now, but DON’T DO WHATEVER IT WAS AGAIN.

    Promise

  115. Murray McCallum says:

    M4rkyboy
    I think Hague’s comments are pretty predictable.  It is strange to hear Hague champion being an EU member given his instincts are quite the opposite.  Mind you his desire to fundamentally re-negotiate UK EU membership will maybe display the extent of the UK’s “considerable international influence”.
    When our First Minister goes on international trade delegations it is good not to see him make an unreserved public apology for past atrocities during colonial rule.

  116. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Can I come in to play again?

  117. Hetty says:

    Is this Scotland UK or are we in Zimbabwe or similar? Just wondering…it’s getting nasty…well, 
    more nasty than even I’d have envisaged. makes me wonder just who is at the helm of the NO 
    camp. 

  118. Fay-Yes says:

    well, i logged into twitter for the first time in several weeks to see what all the fuss was about and had to laugh at louise whitshername crying cybernat nastiness. also, i was reminded of the existance of duncan hothersall, which i’m not.too pleased about.
     
    in dunfermline our snp cllrs have operated a surgery at the monthly farmers market. it is for any local cllr but only snp ever turn up. labour have threatened to have it shut down because they gave out yes leaflets to constituents who asked for them! we’ve been told if we’re campaigning we need to stay at least 5m away from the stall. no suggestion that labour or lib dem (no local tories here) might actually turn up and give alternative info, just trying to shut down snp.
     
    *sorry for lack of caps in my.post – 

  119. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    We are

  120. Breastplate says:

    @ Frazer Allan Whyte, I think the training consists of eating large amounts of cheese over a keyboard and running in and out of holes in the skirting boards. Squeeking is optional.

  121. Luigi says:

    Only UKIP are allowed the freedom of speech, apparently.

  122. sneddon says:

    I forgot to mention in my earlier post  I felt the YES team at Moray handled this very well.  They did the right thing and when in the future , people look at the words ,’dignity’. ‘cool heads’ and ‘intelligent’ they won’t be seeing pictures of hiccup and f*ckup 🙂

  123. Thomas Dunlop says:

    It would be good to have some video evidence when intimidation happens. I think that spread round the internet would send a powerful message to the electorate of Scotland and the world in general.
     
    So YES activists, if you have a mobile with video recording….
     
     

  124. Barry Jarvis, @MrBarryJarvis Moray Labour Councillor now trying to backtrack on bullying on Saturday even though “Ginny”, Morton and her son were gloating that peaceful Yes campaigners had been “hounded out“.

  125. velofello says:

    As the Yes campaign is non-political, what is the basis for refusing Yes campaigners at any event?
    it would have served public order better if the person responding to the “beer tent and things might get nasty” had  declared the immediate intention of contacting the police over the expressed concerns.Surprising that the police weren’t about anyway.

  126. Marcia says:

    Having read through this article and thread it seems that the No campaign side want democracy to be on their terms only. It certainly won’t be on their terms.

  127. Moray Labour Deputy Leader Barry Jarvis seems prone to hyperbolae and reluctant to condemn peaceful campaigners being hounded out, or one of his Cllr and party officials gloating about it.  Seems like a right local Labour mafia to me.

  128. Jiggsbro says:

    As the Yes campaign is non-political,
     
    It’s not party political. It’s most certainly political.

  129. Edward Barbour says:

    Fay-Yes
    “labour have threatened to have it shut down because they gave out yes leaflets to constituents who asked for them! we’ve been told if we’re campaigning we need to stay at least 5m away from the stall”

    Labour or who ever has absolutely no right what so ever to dictate what leaflets are handed out. It sounds very much they are trying to apply Election day rules, where political pamphleteering is not allowed within or near polling stations!
    Frankly if they try that on, tell them to take a hike (or words to that effect, as far as I’m aware we are in a free and democratic country and your well within your rights to hand out information pamphlets

  130. Andy-B says:

    @Vronsky
    “Tape a bar of soap to the end of a pole”
     
    Ha ha!…..Yes indeed or maybe I’ll tape Alex Salmonds smiling napper to the pole and do my pied piper, right into the Clyde with the lot of them, or am I now being politically uncorrect.

  131. Silverytay says:

    A couple of points 
    1 Maybe we should all turn up at the Maggie fair next year wearing our YES t-shirts , hats etc and see what happens .
    2 The O.O vote is not guaranteed to be a NO vote as many people think , yes there is a hardcore vote who will vote no regardless , but there is also a soft vote who will look at what’s best for their families and will vote accordingly .
    There are many people who are in the o.o because their friends etc are in it and it is more a drinking club to them than anything historical .
    I know a few Rangers supporters & O.O members who will be voting YES next year .

  132. At least the precedent has been set and local bully boys and their gloating Labour cheerleaders such as Cllr & Ms Morton can expect to be exposed for what they are.

  133. Jiggsbro says:

    To be STRICTLY fair, that’s semantically an attack on ALL Unionists, not on any individual person.
     
    To be strictly accurate, it’s a personal attack on a poster that makes use of a prejudiced generalisation. The prejudiced generalisation is a collateral attack on all unionists, but the attack itself is clearly aimed at an individual poster, by (screen)name. I just find it astonishing that someone could type that, presumably read it back, C&P it here and at no point recognise that they’d personally attacked someone.
     
    On a less pedantic point, it’s hard enough to get our views into the MSM, even in the comments sections. It doesn’t help if people who could be making informed, constructive comments are being banned for making pointless, personal attacks. And if someone can’t recognise pointless, personal attacks when they make them, they might be better not commenting at all.

  134. john king says:

    So don’t include the “Person X says” bit when quoting someone, and there won’t be any need for unpleasant and messy scenes in which everyone is banned and then brutally killed.

      eeeeek Im too young to die plllllllllleeeeeeaaaaasssseee bwaaaaaaaaaaa

  135. john king says:

    “@dinnatouch”
    Then I have no recollection of blocking you. Have you recently posted a tweet containing a really long string with no spaces in it, like “aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhh” or similar? Because I insta-block people for those.
     
    omg what have I done ek 

  136. john king says:

    It’s a mystery, then. Unblocked you now, but DON’T DO WHATEVER IT WAS AGAIN.
    Promise

      do it do it do it do it 

  137. Yesitis says:

    TwitterTory BritNats. Are they genetically related to humans?
     
    https://twitter.com/daftquine/status/351795113174900737
     
     
     

  138. Doonfooter says:

    Rev Stu – I posted the comment about the Prestwick prom gala sorry my phone txt is driving me mad! The gala takes place on council property organised by a local committee. The organisers vetoed a request for a stall. We had discussed and agreed with the council that it would be acceptable to wear our blue vests and leaflet on what after all was a public prom with no access restrictions. The organisers subsequently complained to the police claiming that they had an agreement with the council to use the prom for “their” event and therefore the prom was not “public” for the duration of the event. Yes activists were asked to leave the prom and escorted away by the boys in blue who upheld the view of the gala organisers. We were accused of turning a family day into a political event. 

  139. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The prejudiced generalisation is a collateral attack on all unionists, but the attack itself is clearly aimed at an individual poster, by (screen)name”

    I’d have to disagree. He says as a Unionist”, removing responsibility from the individual, not like a Unionist” which implies free will. I agree with your wider point but I’m a stickler.

  140. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Barry Jarvis, @MrBarryJarvis Moray Labour Councillor now trying to backtrack on bullying on Saturday”

    Just had a look. Wow, his spelling is tremendous. I hope he isn’t dyslexic or something, or I’ll feel bad, but if he’s not his English teacher needs shooting.

  141. Robert Bryce says:

    Perhaps you should all start packing these bad boys?

    Catch the unionist bile on video at an affordable price whilst simultaneously obtaining declaration signatures.
     
    It’s your classic double dunter 🙂

    EDIT: I am not the seller!

  142. Vincent McDee says:

    Pardon me asking Rev, but could you know of any tweetering school or online courses to learn that language?
    I’ve been Reading them too and I didn’t even noticed the spelling errors as such, I thought it was part of the code.
    Please help, it’s not half as fun when you can’t follow what is making you tic.
    Thank you kindly, V.

  143. I think it’s a great idea, start recording people,  especially the cops if they are trying to move independence reps on in a public place, no way, not on, get it recorded and upload it for all to see, this has to stop.
    Would be nice to catch the odd spook on camera too, I don’t think for a minute they are keeping out of this.
     

  144. Wow!  Cllr Morton now claiming entire village asked Yes Scotland campaigners to leave.  Wicker Man or what? 

  145. Tony Little says:

    Unless I don’t know how this works – quite possible actually – then MrBarryJarvis twitter account is no more.  These things can’t actually be deletes as such, can they?  <he asks pleadingly to those more IT savvy>

  146. big_al says:

    I really don’t understand what the problem is here.
     
    If I was at a village fair and someone stuck a leaflet in my hand, I would glance at it, possibly read it, put it in my pocket or bin it.
     
    I certainly wouldn’t go running to the organiser or whoever asking that those people be ejected/asked to leave or whatever it was. 
     
    Why would you do that? It’s beyond belief. According to Cllr Morton, the whole village were angry. WTF. Why??
     
    Sounds like the village in the film Hot Fuzz.
     
    Yarp!

  147. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Tony – yes, you can delete a Twitter account, and Mr Jarvis does indeed seem to have done so with his.

  148. Angus McPhee says:

    I nearly got battered in Forres once. For dancing to Orchestral manoeuvres in the Dark. I think it’s unlikely the events are related.

  149. Well, that’s a bit of a Red October moment. The Captain has blown the Amerikanski out of the water. Don’t know if I should feel chuffed or guilty. 

  150. Actually no, I am no longer unsure. It matters not whether it’s some semi-literate Labour local councillor or Cockers in the Torygraph or the ……s in the Hootsmon. Their Britnat arslikahn doesn’t even go skin deep. The tide has turned and they know it.  They can go down with HMS Brittania which even the guys that have paid for it know they can’t possibly keep afloat or they can change. Challenge them and they melt. Keep that up and we, the people of Scotland, will reclaim Scotland.

  151. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    O/T
     
    Co-opted members of the BT celebrate in their traditional style on the Royal Mile, yesterday
     
    http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/royal-mile-fight-arrests-after-loyalist-march-1-2984361
     
    He’ll be sleeping ad never notice, so I’ll get this through from the dreaded dead tree press.
     
     

  152. john king says:

    Just reading through these posts I have a very bad feeling the debate is taking a very sinister turn, and the unseen hand of the security services could very well be behind this.
     

  153. john king says:

    I remember having a heated discussion with the manager of my local co-op back in the 70s when I went into the store and asked to put up a poster for an SNP  event and was refused as they did not put up political posters of any sort, all the while standing in front of a labour poster for a counter event, when I pointed this out, the manager was aghast at my effrontery and lack of historical knowledge pointing out to this philistine that labour founded the co-op, 
    she was completely flabbergasted that anyone should even consider questioning why they supported labour
    this is what we’re up against because they haven’t move on one inch since then 

  154. Tony Little says:

    @Rev:  re twitter accounts.
     
    Thanks.  But don’t the actual previous ‘tweets’ stay “live” as it were?  So it’s always possible to see what someone DID tweet, even if their account is closed?  Didn’t this happen with Calman, or am I mixing up my media?
     
     

  155. Juteman says:

    @Bugger.
    Did someone try to set up a YES stall? 🙂

  156. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Smiley thingy to Juteman

  157. scottish_skier says:

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/01/labour-enters-danger-zone/

    LABOUR ENTERS THE DANGER ZONE

    YouGov President Peter Kellner’s latest commentary on how Labour must shift if it is to secure pole position ahead of the next election.

    Ties into this?

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/nick-clegg-set-to-defend-work-of-coalition-to-reporters-1.108624

    i.e. Nick at pains to defend the coalition of late. Plans for a second term as lap dogs for the Tories?

    Dave and Nick are actually very close in politics; Dave being a liberal Tory and nick a Tory liberal.

  158. The Man in the Jar says:

    BBC Scotland still plugging away, this time it is Vince Cable. He is on about barriers to trade. What barriers and who will be erecting them? Like I have said in previous comments what do they think that the big 4 supermarkets going to do, pack up shop and leave Scotland?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-23133563

  159. setondene says:

    @ The Man in the Jar
    If the big 4 supermarkets left Scotland there would be a fantastic opportunity to get capital circulating locally again.  At the moment every item bought in one of these supermarkets sends a profit down to London.  I was in a couple of Slovak cities recently and they were both dominated by giant Tescos, i.e. Scotland is a valuable cash cow to England in more ways than just oil and whisky revenues.

  160. The Man in the Jar says:

    @john king
    Regarding the Co-Op I believe that they still to this day finance the Labour party. Not a problem where there is competition but there are many areas of Scotland where there is none. If you happen to live around Kyle of Lochalsh it is a long drive to Inverness to shop at an alternative to the Co-Op. I am positive that there must be many other similar areas. A friend who lives in Kyle has written to his SNP MSP regarding this monopoly.

  161. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    There are a number of Co-op MPs in England but they take the Labour Whip.

  162. The Man in the Jar says:

    I think that at the very least the Co-Op should be forced to display an obvious sign declaring that some of their profits go toward funding the Labour party. I wonder how many Co-Op shoppers don’t know that they are funding Bitter Together. And what about folk that don’t have the means to travel to an alternative.

  163. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I used to bank with the Co-op.
     
    I thought they were a good safe and honourable bank with a conscience.
     
    Look at them now, a busted flush which is trying to confiscate money from their “bond holders” in exchange for something else pretty worthless. These are not City Spiv bondholders, probably small funds grouped together from penny savers.
     
    The Trades’ unions bank with them so they will not go down and nor will the TUs lose any money.
     
    I’m glad I got out some years back.

  164. Silver19 says:

    Like Brown Balls is good with money (not) sorry to have to link to the vile paper but http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351418/Savers-blast-Ed-Balls-key-role-takeover-deal-doomed-Co-op-Bank.html

  165. The Man in the Jar says:

    Supermarkets like to display signs stating that they are “Supporting Scotland” or similar. Time to put their money where their mouth is however I doubt if they see it that way. There must be hundreds of town and villages where the Co-Op has a monopoly and not just in the highlands I live 10 miles from Glasgow city centre and my “village” has only a Co-Op. Okay there is a Tesco 1&1/2 miles away but not exactly convenient. I can think of many other examples Auchterarder last time I was there, for one.

  166. “BBC Scotland still plugging away, this time it is Vince Cable”
     
    When I saw the headline “Yes vote will ‘put jobs at risk'”, my immediate thought was ‘Aye, in the House of Commons and House of Lords!’ 🙂

  167. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Horace Says Yes
    I thought the same. Probably the only jobs at risk. There again there is the BBC & MSM.

  168. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “But don’t the actual previous ‘tweets’ stay “live” as it were? So it’s always possible to see what someone DID tweet, even if their account is closed?”

    No. Unless someone’s taken screenshots of them or saved the page, tweets vanish for good if the account is deleted.

  169. Vronsky says:

    BTW, I don’t like Bitter Together for BT. How about Basically Tories?

  170. sneddon says:

    Angus  ‘I nearly got battered in Forres once. For dancing to Orchestral manoeuvres in the Dark. I think it’s unlikely the events are related.’
    Are you sure? That must have been some dancing 🙂
     

  171. Jopparocks says:

    I’m fairly new to posting on this brilliantly written site (above and below the line) but I think what happened at this fair demonstrates the true grass roots nature of the yes campaign.  Amateur volunteers, just like myself,  from various communities who are inspired and motivated by the idea of independence for their nation, who possibly  have never been involved in politics before coming up against a political machine whose only motivation is to win.  It’s an eye opener to us to experience this first hand – the machine is bringing spin, half-truths, on the ground bullying and place men in the media  – all to bear on a non party movement whose main resources at the moment are passion and commitment.  They are fighting dirty and this is probably how they have always operated and ordinary people like me have  just never been there to see it.

    I may be wrong here but I actually don’t think the political activists from the No side coming as they do mainly from Labour have really thought about independence as a concept good or bad – as Tamany hall style political soldiers they have been told that the independence campaign is the enemy and so they do what they have always done – fight to win at all costs and damn the damage down to their country.

  172. Doug says:

    Tony Little
     
    Roddy MacDonald had helpfully posted this earlier in the comment thread. This what you were after?
     
    https://www.diigo.com/item/image/3wizl/eh6o?size=o

  173. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Vronsky
     
    Beyond Tolerance?

  174. Albert Herring says:

    Bloody Tories

  175. Backwards Thinking

  176. a worker says:

    I work for the co-op and let me assure you that there are a great many (in fact everyone I work with) who are firm committed yes voters.

    I am staunchly proud of the business I work for.

    OK, they fund the Labour party. For me that’s a cross I must bear.

    They plough a lot of money back into the communities they serve and are the most ethical of the supermarket chains in the UK by a country mile.

    You can rest assured that everything you buy from a co-op has been bought safe in the knowledge that the supplier hasn’t been squeezed to the point of bankruptcy to satisfy greedy shareholders.
    They provide employment in these communities. If we had their “monopoly” shut down in rural villages who else would move in to these communities? Tesco, Asda, Morrissons?. No chance the turnover ain’t high enough and it’s not financially viable for the small chains.
    Another thing. With regards to the bank. A busted flush? Not by a country mile. They have a £1.5bn capital shortfall which it will make up on it’s own steam with no taxpayer bailout. Let me assure you that shortfall is a drop in the ocean compared to some of the rest! It would make your eyes water if you some of the rest!

    A busted flush it most certainly isn’t and you’d all do a damn site better than to listen to the MSM shite that so many on here berate on a daily basis.

    Funny how the media are bised one day then we’re happy to believe it the next?

    Come on folks. PERSPECTIVE!!

  177. pa_broon74 says:

    Depressingly, Johann Lamont is a cooperative Labour MSP. In my defence, when I moved over to the Cooperative bank, I had no idea and Lamont was no where to be seen, (much as she is now…)
     
    The list of other MP’s and MSP’s is a bit depressing including as it does, that waffler Kezia Dugdale, that arse Davidson & the disaster Balls.
     
    On the wikisite they claim to be affiliated with Labour yet a centre left/social democratic political party which seems a bit far-fetched.

  178. The Man in the Jar says:

    Didn’t know that Lamont is a co-operative MSP. Oh well her future is guarantied post independence A job that will suit her better, behind a checkout. Apologies checkout operatives everywhere.
    Another thought has occurred to me. Imagine the scenario. You get to the door of the Co-op and the alarm goes off. “Security to the front door” bellows the Tannoy and Davidson turns up.

  179. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I work for the co-op and let me assure you that there are a great many (in fact everyone I work with) who are firm committed yes voters.

    I am staunchly proud of the business I work for.”

    Rightly so. The most disgraceful thing about Labour’s complete ideological capitulation of the last 20 years has been how utterly needless it was. The Co-op runs a successful ethical business on socialist principles. The John Lewis Partnership does the same. The state-run East Coast railway is the most profitable in the country. Even in the prevailing neoliberal consensus, people who want benefit claimants strung up from lampposts then ground up and fed to farm animals still overwhelmingly want utilities like the railways nationalised.

    Social democracy WORKS, demonstrably, but Labour have run screaming from it like the pitiful cowards they are. We can’t afford another Tory decade, and whichever party England votes for in 2015 it’s going to be a Tory government. We must escape, not just for ourselves but to show the rest of the UK there’s a real alternative.

  180. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I nearly got battered in Forres once. For dancing to Orchestral manoeuvres in the Dark. I think it’s unlikely the events are related.”

    Don’t be so sure. I once got my nose burst at the Edinburgh Venue for dancing to the BMX Bandits. The BMX Bandits! Hadn’t even spoken to or looked at anyone other than my mate I’d gone there with, and it wasn’t him. (Didn’t bump into anyone either – there were only about 20 in the place at the time.) Some people just really object to folk enjoying jaunty pop music 😀

  181. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Another thought has occurred to me. Imagine the scenario. You get to the door of the Co-op and the alarm goes off. “Security to the front door” bellows the Tannoy and Davidson turns up.”

    😀

  182. David Smith says:

    Rev. Did you mean ‘nationalised’ when you referred to the railways in your last paragraph up there? Just looks a wee bit odd otherwise.
    The thought of Ian Davidson having to work as a supermarket security guard post-Indy is certainly an amusing one!

  183. molly says:

    What a strange country this is. Having watched Brazilians taking to the streets to say in effect -no more, its our Country, our lives ,our values,not the politicians or big business you return home to find what ?

    The oft quoted’ majority,’using their position to get a few folk handing out leaflets ejected  from a gala day.
    Goodness me, democracy eh , where would we be without it ? 

    The ‘angry mob’ ? People should be angry but not because 2 or 3 people have the temerity to try to offer a different view but  angry that ‘we ‘ have let ourselves be suckered into thinking , this is as good as it gets.

    We have the house, the car, the holiday, the kids go to a decent school and my God, we are going to fight to keep being over taxed,to be kept  away  from ‘they’ kind , to continue to be duped by politicians straight out of Oxbridge and be led by the nose by a media ,owned by a small band of elite. Democracy British stylie !!!

    Except there are millions of people not in that position, not able to choose their lifestyle, their address, their restauarant of choice but seriously are being told /scared into keeping the very system that excludes them.

    Somewhere along the way, quite a few of us have thought plenty but been to scared to say it, too conformist, myself included.

    As I nipped into the garage for petrol, wearing an Indy T shirt , I thought, mm maybe should have changed. Then I thought, I’ve just passed a carpark, full of men wearing blue trousers, white shirts and funny red feathery things in their hats, carrying flutes.Do they have more right than me, to their choice of dress ?

    I’m not talking about violent anger, I’m talking about being able to express an opinion, or wear a top (football or otherwise ) without risking comment, I’m talking about my view or Nellys view down the road being as valid as some Labour Councillors otherwise what are we here for ?
    In this Great British Better Together facade, as I watched the Union Flags flying from the balconys , I thought in Engerland, it represents England, in Scotland it represents Rangers, which bit of it represents me ? 

    We now have a choice, to continue with no vision of what kind of people we are, maintaining a system that now means people have to go to food banks to survive or to participate in a vote that means, we can decide who actually represents us, what kind of people we really are. 

    We may play football differently (understatement ) but we’re not so far in our views of fairness from the Brazilians on the streets demonstrating ,are we ?

  184. Dee says:

    “Project Fear”  The bold Vinny boy up here to remind us that we are too wee, too stupid and too poor to be an independent country. The BBC Scotland team will take great pleasure in letting us know exactly what he said.  
    O/T I will be writing to the BBC today asking them if they are in any way associated with the Bitter Together scaremongering tactics and do they also put any input and suggestions into “PROJECT FEAR” 
    Beter Together, BBC Scotland and the MSM absolutely detest this title being hung on them, so push this one all the way. It’s short and direct and sums them up in two words. 
    More of us need to contact the BBC and hold them to account regarding “PROJECT FEAR”….

  185. DougtheDug says:

    Just an bit of info about the Co-Operative Party. They don’t put up their own candidates as it’s always a joint candidate with Labour so Johann Lamont was elected under a joint Co-op party/Labour banner.
     
    Co-Operative party members are allowed to be members of Labour but not of other parties so Johann is almost certainly a member of the Labour party as well. The co-op party is a distinct legal entity but joint membership means the boundaries between it and Labour are very blurred.

  186. Juteman says:

    Great post Molly.

  187. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Rev. Did you mean ‘nationalised’ when you referred to the railways in your last paragraph up there? Just looks a wee bit odd otherwise.”

    Yes. AND THAT’S WHAT I SAID.

  188. The Man in the Jar says:

    @a worker says
    Sorry if my previous comments have caused offence. I know how you feel. I worked for 20 years in Strathclyde Regional Council we used to get pelters in the MSM all the time. I knew that there were a lot of good hard working people struggling against the odds to make it work with very little thanks. Please don’t think that I have anything against the workers in the Co-op it is just that I think that the organisation should be more up-front regarding financing the Labour party.

  189. Bob Howie says:

    Typical Unionist manoeuvers, if at first you don’t succeed, bully them.
    If this is the Union they are better together with, then count me out, I would rather be independent than dependant on bullies!!
     

  190. Slaughterhouse truth says:

    Dear oh dear, how bored must you all be to cling tenuously to this thread about a wee village fair.  The actual facts are so boring as to be non newsworthy, but of course the spin must be put on it to rally the troops no doubt.  
    The Maggie Fair is one of the oldest fairs in Scotland, it has been non political from day one, no where in its history has it been a grandstand for any party or cause other than charitable.  
    The committee did not vote, one member took it upon himself to invite the YesScotland but not the NoScotland.  This was seen by many as unacceptable. The fair is a family day, not a political one.  
    A few people spoke up about this and the committee member actually ranted at a young member of the public for having an opinion. Tut tut, and shame on you. 
    After a friendly discussion with the YesScotland lot, where it was pointed out that after a few beers things might get heated, they decided to leave. 
    No ‘angry’ mob was seen or heard, just a few people with opinions. 
    As to some of the comments, I thank you for the laugh I have had this afternoon reading them.  I would suggest getting the facts straight before posting complete drivel and fiction.
    i bid you a good afternoon. 

  191. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I would suggest getting the facts straight before posting complete drivel and fiction.”

    I see nothing in your account that conflicts with anything stated in the article. Are you the real Ginny Slater?

  192. NorthBrit says:

    “Dear oh dear”.  Couthy language in the opening lines.  “Shame” “ranted” “drivel”.  “Family day”.  Laughable suggestion that poster finds the whole thing amusing.
    This is such a perfect caricature of repulsive unionist ranting that there must be a chance that it’s satire.

  193. molly says:

    Is that satire Northbrit, in the same vein as Susan Calman “the actual facts -(hee hee) are so boring as to be non newsworthy,but the spin must be put on it to rally the troops no doubt ?” or  “I suggest getting the facts straight before posting complete drivel and fiction “- ? etched on a toilet door at the Hootsman.

  194. roboscot says:

    ‘it was pointed out that after a few beers things might get heated’
    No, doesn’t compute. These were political activists not children, I’m sure they would have coped with a ‘heated’ debate. If there was an expectation that people might get drunk and start trouble did you close the bar or call the police? People who get aggressive through alcohol aren’t usually too fussy about who they direct their aggression towards. So you advised the Yes people but not parents with children, or any other people who might be considered vulnerable. Very strange behaviour if what you say is true.

  195. DaveB says:

    Rev. Stuart 
    Judging from the errors, it’s unlikely to be be who you think.
    Maybe the gesticulating man, one of the complainees, or the councillors mother.

  196. Mike says:

    Is it going to get to the stage where referendum activists are going to have to seek Police protection on the street and at local events? Is it really going to get that ugly?

  197. George Nugent says:

    Maybe I not the norm, but if someone threatened me while I was at a place I was initially welcomed, I would tell those peeps to politely feck off.

  198. Tom Foyle says:

    The “yes” campaigners were there because they asked if they could attend, and their request was accepted. The “no” campaigners weren’t there, because, even though they were offered the chance to attend, they declined. So, Slaughterhouse truth, (one hopes this name is not an accurate representation of your character) “one member” did NOT “take it upon himself” to discriminate. This is EXACTLY the sort of misrepresentation of the facts that no campaigners are guilty of…it’s not quite lying, but it’s certainly not the truth.
    Aside from that, is it too much of a stretch to suggest that the no campaigners weren’t there because they knew something that the yes campaigners didn’t?
    Not being a disinformationist, I shall not offer any further comment. BUT…the truth WILL out.



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