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Wings Over Scotland


Posted on January 02, 1968 by

For off-topic chat. Duh.

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25294 to “Off-topic”

  1. Smallaxe says:

    Tinto Chiel:

    It’s good to see you back in a more optimistic mood my Friend. I give you Mr.Bolan, with my point of view.

    Peace Always

  2. Tinto Chiel says:

    And thank God Nana didn’t come on here and hear about our East End debauchery (and let’s drag in Fred and carjamtic too for the cutty stool of repentance).

    That would be a pure riddy.

    Dodged a bullet there, old chum.

    And now, Wood Hill and Bedfordshire.

  3. Fred says:

    Crackin map Smallaxe, now if you head up Abercromby Street, at the back of St Mary’s church there is an empty plot in Orr Street which is where the dead of the Cholera epidemic of the 1840’s were packed into mass graves. Mostly poor Irish folk fleeing the Famine & with little resistance they went down like ninepins. There are another three private plots in Bridgeton ditto, mebbes 10,000 people. Apparently the grave-liquor ran down the gutters. This scandal was the spur to the Municipal Cemeteries being opened.

  4. Fred says:

    Found the story on this folks,

    Sweet Dreams! ๐Ÿ™‚

  5. Thepnr says:

    Here’s one to fall asleep too.


    Not Fleetwood Mac good all the same.

  6. Smallaxe says:

    Martin Luthor King: I have a Dream.

    Peace Always

  7. carjamtic says:

    Tinto,repent ye not,the use of ‘street language’ or being cunning bilingualist,is to be celebrated,ordinary people,in this ‘modern’ world, lack these skills,you my friends,are special.

    Do you want a poke ? to the (ahem) layperson,this sounds like a proposition but to us ‘code breakers’ it simply means,….sit in or takeaway.

    If you add in,your many other (normally hidden) talents,say the ability to smell shite a fifty yards (praegustators) and to then,still have the presence of mind to warn people,not to swallow….it is by no means a stretch of anybody’s imagination,to state than your are in fact hero’s.

    So I say,let’s all get manky at Granny Blacks (sit in),then take a quick trip to Roslin Chapel…. alway’s remember it’s a jungle out there,but people need you,Scotland needs you,there is still, much to be done and many Yoons to be ‘poked’

    If,as we all acknowledge,red is the new blue,then it follows that,yesterday’s mankies are oday’s superhero’s,

    That concludes the case for the defence milady.


  8. Smallaxe says:


    A most excellent and Pulchritudinous post my learned friend.May I be the first to agree that we should all get inebriated at said “Grandmother Blacks” and from that venue proceed to Roslin Chapel.Do we have a designated carriage driver?

    Broon paper pokes will be supplied to carry refreshments for our journey, I presume. I am looking forward to our excursion and hope that a very many yoons can be poked on our travel and arrival.

    This concludes my humble thoughts on this extremely exciting endeavour, Milady.

    Peace Always

  9. Finlay says:

    Morning folks,

    I’m not too sure how to title these thoughts so please bear with me if it gets a bit unstructured.

    I’ve spent a lot of my time over the last 5 years or so justifying to those around me the merits and reasoning behind supporting ideas such as; Scottish independence, socialism, altruism, truthfulness and the importance of continually nurturing your own mind.

    When I struggle to achieve anything through a conversation, I come across the same problems fairly frequently with certain types of people and those people broadly fall into two categories (and some into both): the morally bankrupt and the intellectually bankrupt.

    ‘Morally bankrupt’ is pretty self-explanatory. To be clear about the ‘intellectually bankrupt’ category, I don’t mean that these people are necessarily un-intelligent people and nor do I mean that they simply don’t have very much knowledge (ignorance), rather they seem to be either incapable or unwilling to have general intellectual discussions on the merits of ideas.

    Instead of discussing ideas from an intellectual stand-point, a lot of people approach topics from a purely emotive foundation and don’t understand the difference between the two approaches. I can show someone that what they are saying is full of logical fallacies but if they treat every conversation purely emotionally then, to them, I’m pretty much telling them how to feel. And it’s never a good idea for someone to think you are telling them what or how to feel…

    There are a hell of a lot of ‘intellectually bankrupt’ people and a distressingly high minority of ‘morally bankrupt’ people in Scotland (and everywhere else for that matter). Everything we do through Wings or similar vehicles has been and is very effective at winning intellectual arguments and informing intellectual readers but a lot of people simply don’t engage in intellectual discussion and are not intellectual people (no offence intended towards these people).

    Right now, and also in an independent Scotland, I think its extremely important that our society is educated in the field of Philosophy so that the general public has an idea of why they do things and what is a good motive for your actions.

    We teach Maths and English as staple subjects at school and it is very important that we do so, but surely it is just as important to teach our people not only ‘what’ things are and ‘how’ things are but also ‘why’ we should do things.

    The UK establishment seems to be trying to do the opposite, as a morally and intellectually bankrupt society is far more likely to vote for their ideas on society and I see this as a real threat.

    What are your thoughts on teaching Philosophy as a staple subject in the Scottish education system?


  10. Tinto Chiel says:

    Morning, all.

    Thanks for the info, Fred. grim stuff but we should never forget it.

    Carjamtic: love your slogan “Let’s all get manky at Granny Black’s” and they do say Roslin’s nice at this time of year. Must get out the Tinto Tours charabanc. You make more sense than my lawyer ever did, I have to say.

    Finlay: quite agree with your thoughtful post. One of the reasons I hate canvassing (but feel I have to do it) is that it’s difficult to deploy a reasoned argument because those fed a diet of MSM lies and spin react, as you say, in an emotional way: “I hate yon Salmon/Sturgeon; We’re too poor; The Ile’s runnin oot” etc. Also The Cringe is Strong and 300 odd years of such brain-washing and propaganda by definition is not based on fact or logic but is still depressingly powerful. Clear thinking could cut through all that slurry.

    Trying to teach philosophy to improve thinking skills and make people aware of false arguments is the last thing the Establishment wants, of course, but it would be beneficial in the long run. How you pack it into the CfE curriculum, I have no idea. Most teachers are tearing their hair out because of the curriculum demands and the lack of clear direction. It’s been that way since the Labour party introduced it and unfortunately I think Honest John Swinney has a huge job on his hands trying to improve matters. Just talking to the civil servants, Inspectorate and head teachers is not going to cut it, I’m afraid. Listen to those who know how to do the job, not those divorced from the classroom.

    I heard of attempts to introduce philosophy in England (was it on Radio 4?) but it was being trialled in a yummy-mummy middle-class school and was very piecemeal, from memory.

    Yours is a great idea but I don’t know how you go about it.

  11. Chick McGregor says:


    I am in favour of teaching the techniques of rational thinking used in philosophy, mathematics and physics as a separate subject from those disciplines.

    Deductive reasoning –

    Syllogisms, Venn Diagrams, Statistics, Geometric.
    The importance of researching premise veracity, raw data accuracy, quantity and how representative a distribution it has.

    Inductive reasoning –

    De Bono techniques like formal attempts to empathise with, and hence understand, another person’s rationale (Logic Bubble).
    Thinking Hats. Random seeding of creative thought process.

    These thinking techniques should be illustrated using examples of the three subjects mentioned.

    In other words, the tools of rationale thinking, which I agree are sadly lacking in the UK, should be a mandatory curricula subject itself.

    Pre University Philosophy teaching is virtually non existent in the USA and Britain unlike most other countries in Europe.

    It should be a course which can be studied as readily as maths and physics.
    Retention of objective teaching is a problem (as it is in other subjects like History, Politics etc.) but with careful course structuring and teacher training that problem should be minimised. Other countries manage.

    A basic grounding in the main different approaches and ideas for ethics and morality questions, using the above tools for example, should be readily available.

    But philosophy is a subject for lifelong study.

    More important is the provision of basic thinking tools and getting across Kant’s excellent encapsulation of the spirit of enlightenment ‘Dare to think.’

    If everyone at least left school aware that philosophy like physics and maths can be explored further using the thinking tools they have been taught, that would be a good start.

    But as you say, the elitist systems of the USA and UK may not be happy with folk who are taught how to think for themselves.

  12. Fred says:

    “Dare to Think!” should be in every class-room Chick. Kant of course was from Cant’s in Coupar Angus.

    True Dat!

  13. Chick McGregor says:

    Ak ken Fred. He was the first to change the spelling from Cant to Kant.

    Although he famously (though not quite true) never left the environs of Konigsberg he was well acquainted with the philosophical output of Scotland.

    It was Hume’s ‘Critique of Pure Reason’ which lured him back from Astronomy to Philosophy.

  14. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thanks again, Stoker. You should be getting a Wings gold medal

    Still hits the spot for me:

  15. Smallaxe says:


    Thanks, Boss.

    Peace Always

  16. K1 says:

    I think it’s quite funny that our chosen ‘monikers’ even get their own ‘nickname monikers’…so how’s it gaun Big Chib and Boss, hey that could be the band name Big Chib and the Boss? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  17. Smallaxe says:


    SShhhh, I’m climbing drainpipes and unscrewing landing lights, it’s a great way of meeting people I don’t like.

    Peace Always

  18. K1 says:

    That’ll be peace ‘n chibs then eh… ๐Ÿ˜‰ (ah like yer style)

  19. Finlay says:

    Apologies for slow reply, my PC has died and I’ve been busy.

    Tinto Chiel 18/01/2017 10:27
    “How you pack it into the CfE curriculum, I have no idea. Most teachers are tearing their hair out because of the curriculum demands and the lack of clear direction. Itโ€™s been that way since the Labour party introduced it and unfortunately I think Honest John Swinney has a huge job on his hands trying to improve matters. Just talking to the civil servants, Inspectorate and head teachers is not going to cut it, Iโ€™m afraid. Listen to those who know how to do the job, not those divorced from the classroom.”

    I left school about 5 or 6 years ago so I think my own experience of school is probably quite relevant to the present day schoolkid’s experience. Having started primary school during the dawn of the internet age just as Google was becoming a big deal, I feel like most teachers failed to adapt to the ease of access to information that came with widespread access to the internet. Suddenly there was so much information at your fingertips that the largest hurdle was no longer finding sources of information – there was an avalanche of information only a Google search away, the new hurdle is separating good information from bad information and we were never taught how to do this through school.

    The primary purpose of schooling is to teach children the skills of communication and arithmetic in order to prepare them for basic existence in society. Children are born with truly open minds and spend the first part of their lives learning all day, every day about everything and the secondary function of schooling is to nurture these open minds to keep them open (every close-minded person you ever meet started off with an open mind and shut it somewhere along the way). As a species, if we want to improve as a species, we need each subsequent generation to build on the strengths and weaknesses of all previous generations, therefore knowing how to effectively learn and understanding the purpose of knowledge and wisdom is absolutely critical for human progress and even the survival of our species.

    In my experience, many teachers don’t truly recognise their purpose or the magnitude of their responsibility as educators and focus too much on their own lives and their own personal satisfaction. The teachers who do have a good idea of their purpose, as Tinto Chiel says, are hamstrung by the curriculum because it has not been designed for its true purpose, it lacks direction and it is stifling.

    I think the first step to fix this is educating the educators and reworking the curriculum to tackle the true purpose of the education system. A focus needs to be made less on throwing information at kids and telling them to swallow it and more on teaching them why they should bother to learn in the first place. Once a child understands what they will gain from education and sparks a hunger for knowledge the whole process of education starts to self-perpetuate.

    I think more trust needs to be put in teachers and more time given for them to deviate from a set curriculum in order to teach some really important life lessons. Each class of kids is a unique and each class will need to be approached in different ways. The teacher is in the best position to assess what is a priority for their kids the learn, and so our teachers should be trained to be as fit for that job as can be! The current one-size-fits-all curriculum is painting every class with the same brush and it doesn’t work.

    I think children are pushed to specialise far too early in their lives. They are choosing their path in life before they can even begin to comprehend the world they will be walking into after their school life ends. General knowledge education needs to be extended further and needs to relate to adult life a lot more to teach skills like for example ‘how to budget your personal finances’. Give kids a couple more years of broad education and life skills development before they have to pick their specialised subjects that will probably define the rest of their working lives.

    One final point is that there has to be an effort made to understand education from the point of view of the pupils. Chick McGregor mentioned that:

    “…thinking techniques should be illustrated using examples of the three subjects mentioned [Philosophy, Maths and Physics]”.

    To teach somebody something new, the most effective method I have ever found (and this applies to canvassing too by the way) is to teach them by referencing something they already understand and if possible something they have an interest in or a love for.

    Here is an example of what I’m talking about. When I was a kid the Lord of the Rings trilogy was a huge deal for us as the films were released while we were in primary school, we loved Middle Earth, the characters, the story, the narrative, the music, the lot. We fully immersed ourselves in the Lord of the Rings universe and almost every kid in my school could quote you most scenes from the films.

    A few months ago I listened to a fairly in depth podcast series about the First World War and as a side note I learned that the Lord of the Rings novels were largely influenced by Tolkien’s experience of the war. I read the Lord of the Rings novels and watched the films when I was at school, I was also taught for a semester about the First World War. If the teachers at the time had made the link between the popular culture of the moment (LOTR) and the subject of WW1 we were learning anyway then they could have taught us some massive lessons on humanity, morality and philosophy that we would have wanted to learn.

    I re-watched the trilogy earlier this week, as I have done countless times before, however with my new found knowledge of WW1 the trilogy took on a whole new meaning and I experienced the movies on a new plane of thinking, from a new dimension and I think that sums it up quite nicely.

    The more you learn about existence, the more you experience in your life. You can see something with uneducated eyes and get bored of it, then when you gain new knowledge you see a whole new world and the boring thing is now exciting.

    Teach kids that philosophy and the human race will probably sort itself out.

  20. Cactus says:

    Aweright Finlay, well said.

  21. Tinto Chiel says:

    Excellent post, Finlay.

    Unfortunately, teachers, like any professional group, have a spectrum of abilty/commitment. For every inspirational one there will be a jobsworth somewhere who can be complacent and unimaginative and unaware of the almost sacred responsibility of her/his job. It should be about opening minds and teaching children to act and think for themselves: very dangerous for the Establishment.

    CfE was supposed to individualise learning and make kids more “self-actuating” but it has had its problems. It was supposed to be the opposite of throwing information at the pupils but a lot of useful on-line sites can be filtered out by the school, for example, like YouTube, and many older teachers are actually quite unaware of the power of the internet in any case. There is little meaningful in-service training in this area any more as budgets are tight.

    “To teach somebody something new, the most effective method I have ever found (and this applies to canvassing too by the way) is to teach them by referencing something they already understand and if possible something they have an interest in or a love for.” Agree completely, although one of my daughters (who taught in an Ayrshire school of multiple deprivation last year) reports that many incoming P1/2s have lower levels of language and social skills owing to lack of attachment/interaction with their parents. Poverty makes the pressures on family worse, of course. Sometimes kids are simply plonked in front of the TV in their first few years.

    I’m being quite serious when I suggest you make the minister aware of your thoughts and concerns which are so well articulated here. In my experience, while teachers are not listened to, articulate adults/parents are.

  22. Scott says:

    Did not hear any of this on BBC but then it is one of their own .

  23. Stoker says:

    Yer all mad ah tell ye, mad! ๐Ÿ˜€

    Thanks, Scott, i’ve not seen that Kooend piece.

    Folks, this is as good a time as any to let yous all know – those that follow the WOS archive links – that at some point over the next 2-3 weeks i will suddenly stop posting for a few weeks. Major job possibly in the offing which will take me temporarily off-line. I’ll resume the archives at the first opportunity. Sorry i can’t be anymore specific.

    How about….The Banned?

  24. ahundredthidiot says:

    CBS Benn Swann doesn’t report fire on msm re pizzagate, but definitely smoke

    and begs the question why law enforcement haven’t even looked at it……maybe after friday!

  25. Fred says:

    @ Finlay, in my young day weans got bored “with” something, not “of” it! They do say that in England, they also get “floor” mixed up with “ground”. I dropped it “on the floor!” when they might be on Ilkely Moor at the time. Funny auld world, diction has undoubtedly “deteriorated” & that’s another word the English have great trouble with.

    I think if we are relying on stuff about Elfs to teach the weans we are in deep shit, however excellent the Elfs might be!

  26. K1 says:

    Aye but…but some elf services are dain a lot better than others Fred ๐Ÿ˜‰

    (coat’s oan)

  27. Liz g says:

    Stoker @ 11.41
    Thanks for the links you have already put up, great for finding something to read, espically at stupid o’clock in the morning.
    Good luck with your job and haste ye back.

  28. Tinto Chiel says:

    Good luck, Stoker with the Big Fish and thanks again.

    That Laura Kuensssssssssssssssberg (my precious) really gets on my nazzums.

    But she’s not biased. So is she incompetent, then?

    She’ll be in the Lords before you know it…..

  29. Finlay says:


    I talk about things I don’t really understand. So far as I remember I’ve never felt boredom myself, much to the annoyance of everyone around me I’m sure!

    This might make me look like an idiot, but if I practice what I preach then I should say it anyway! I always thought that when saying things like “I’m bored of something” there was an implied ‘with’ so that the less lazy way of saying it would be “I’m bored of [interacting with] something”.

    So another example might be if you are talking to someone and cannae be arsed anymore you might say “I’m tired of you.” meaning “I’m tired of [interacting with] you [because you are an insufferable killer of good conversation]”.

    Not directed at you by the way, that was simply the first example I thought of!

    A similar thing to the “floor” example is I call practically any liquid I intend on drinking “juice”, be it actual juice, fizzy drinks, milk, whatever! Very confusing for my international friends.

  30. Fred says:

    Finlay, I’ll have a gless of what you’re on!

  31. Finlay says:

    You can have any drink you like so long as it’s juice! ๐Ÿ˜›

  32. Fred says:

    Celtic Connections starting, I shall attempt once more to try & post a song on here, Karen Matheson’s “Glen Ballachulish”

  33. Fred says:

    Over the moon guys, cracked it! A recent survey had more than 50% of Americans believe in angels ๐Ÿ™‚ Karen Matheson sings like wan!

  34. Smallaxe says:

    Ther’s a per a’ pers oan the cher oan the fler ower ther!

    Or as Mr Peffers would say “ower settin’ intae the Inglis”.

    There’s a pair of pears on the chair on the floor over there! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Peace Always

  35. Smallaxe says:


    I once wrote a poem about Angels, I met them, but I will not reproduce it here.Just in case someone gets bored of it. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Thanks, for the information regarding St.Mary’s and the Happy Haggis link, I found it very interesting. The reason I was so adamant about Belvidere Hospital, was because I used to work in the Mortuary.Tru’ Dat! I also worked in Stobhill hospital mortuary and pathology lab. Also true.

    Peace Always my Friend

  36. Smallaxe says:


    Thanks, Boss. I hope that you will not be gone too long.See my post You Dirty Rat @ 12:07pm the link was for you.

    Peace Always

  37. Tinto Chiel says:

    MT a no-go area for me just now, what with Insensate Dave disrupting some excellent comments. I think non-engagement is the only answer, since any response is twisted and misrepresented.

    In next door visiting my old neighbour just there. I think it was C4 News and Theresa May was being interviewed in Davos. She’s like a Demon Headmistress but a very nervous one, and one who can’t answer a question in an intelligible way: feeble and unconvincing.

    I keep expecting Dalmatian puppies to try and make a break for it from her handbag. And she seemed to have a pink badger thingy wrapped around her thrapple.

    Bizarre. And then I remembered Tories love dead animals, slaughtered in large numbers.

    I’m beginning to think all this tough talk may be a preamble to a snap election: things can only get worse for them once the consequences of Brexit manifest themselves and the Tories can stack up votes before that happens, since Labour as so weak. With tactical voting by unionists, the SNP may even lose a couple of seats, which would be represented as “the bubble bursting” and similar tosh. Blairites would actually love a landslide defeat because they would use it as an excuse to knife Corbyn, too, so they’ll vote for an election (and so would delusional JC).

    And of course it might interfere with the momentum for a future Indyref2 campaign.

    Please, tell me I’m wrong.

    Good news: a couple of rare Miles Davis CDs arrived today and the days lengthen by two minutes every day.

  38. Fred says:

    Smallaxe that wiz lovely kid! ye must huv some rerr stories aboot the boadies? Theresa, since the May Putsch is now as daft as a box of frogs, she has a very strange gait, a bit like a stick insect, I fear things will get a lot worse before they get better.

  39. Smallaxe says:


    Thanks, Fred, Glad you liked it, I wasn’t going to remark because I don’t like anyone asking a question just to ignore people who are kind enough to answer so that they can then furnish their own pre-prepared answer. I could see it coming!

    T.May does have a very strange manner of moving, she looks as though she has just rented a body and hasn’t quite worked out where the clutch is, like someone who usually drives an automatic car and then rents a stick shift.I think we need a good insect repellent.Jeff Goldblum’s Brundle-fly comes to mind!

    Now aboot the Boadies…. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Peace Always

  40. Smallaxe says:


    Alls well that ends well, every cloud, silver lining you know?

    Peace Always

  41. Smallaxe says:


    I fully agree about non-engagement with S/Dave, personally, I would require a couple of dates (Chaperoned) first and slowly building up over time to a wee kiss on the cheek.But then I’m nothing but a fkn slut.


    Peace Always

  42. Smallaxe says:

    19 January, 2017 at 11:51 am

    Should have been this, I hated school, with a Vengence!

    Peace Always

  43. Smallaxe says:

    Goodnight I’ll just cry myself to sleep

    Peace Always….Sob..

  44. Meg merrilees says:

    This is what I call rain!

  45. Smallaxe says:

    That deserves a wee song, Meg:
    The Waterboys

    Peace Always

  46. Tinto Chiel says:

    Smallaxe, don’t be so hard on yourself, you’re not really that kind of girl ๐Ÿ˜› !

    Wow! “If”! I remember seeing it with my Dear Old Dad and finding it quite shocking. It reminds me of this:

    Thanks for Miles’ lovely Night Music. Calms me down, even in the morning.

    Meg: that Greek match must’ve taken place at the Glasgow Fair.

  47. Cadogan Enright says:



    But follow on Facebook as updates are quicker there

  48. Smallaxe says:


    Your more than welcome, anything for a “Manky Mate”

    Peace Always

  49. Brotyboy says:

    Just a link to a wee article I put forward to Rab Bruce’s Spider (If At First You Don’t Secede, Try, Try Again)

  50. Chick McGregor says:

    Oops, just noticed a howler on my last post.

    Should have been –

    “It was Hume’s ‘A Treatise of Human Nature'”

    Too many birthday sherbets.

  51. Chick McGregor says:

    Nice one Scott.

    So now she was a shiny new ‘Miss Reporting’ award to go on her mantlepiece along with her ‘Broadcaster of the Year’ one.

    Nothing like a bit of Feng Shui to herald in the Chinese New Year.

  52. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thanks, Smallaxe.

    Looks like the billboard campaign is upsetting some people.

    Now if WE went around slashing billboards…..

    I heard this on the car radio this morning and immediately thought of Insensate Dave and his band The Chindits:

  53. Smallaxe says:


    What’s the difference between S/Dave and a sperm?
    A; They both have a one in 13 million chance of being human
    Peace always

  54. Smallaxe says:


    I meant similarity between them
    Peace Always

  55. Tinto Chiel says:

    Smallaxe, I haven’t even looked at the MT in any detail today ‘cos every time I see his name I hit the scroller hard.

    I’m away on to YouTube to look for something funky as Freuchie to cheer myself up.

    Surprised The Rev hasn’t administered the red card to him by now.

    I got a bottle of Amarone for Christmas and as soon as the sun hits the yard-arm I’m reaching for the bottle-opener.

    Cheers in advance.

  56. Fred says:

    @ Chick, mind keep yer lavvy pan shut, if it’s good Feng Shui yer efter!

    True Dat!

  57. Tinto Chiel says:

    This is funky as Freuchie.

    Takes my mind off The Trumpster.

  58. Smallaxe says:


    True it is, I insist it is always done in my lavvy and have done for years if left open your money runs out.
    Peace Always

  59. Smallaxe says:


    Pickin’ them up, boss!

    Peace Always

  60. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Bowie, ‘Suffragette City’ Live, 1973 –

  61. Fred says:

    Sound advice wi the lavvy pan lid Smallaxe, but just remember it’s doon in the middle of the night, on a short-haud wi the Tex Ritters!

  62. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Bowie, ‘Space Oddity’ (live, year???)

  63. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Have been taking my time, reading recent O/T stuff and cathcing some random links. Great stuff.

    Very interested in what Finlay has been saying above. It’s not just the education system we have to consider in a free Scotland, it’s systems of all kinds. We’ve a lot of repair work to do, and it won’t be easy, as TC says in ref to John Swinney.

    On a more positive note, there are certain areas where we’ll be starting afresh. Well, we will be if the usual suspects quietly admit defeat and shuffle off into retirement. Can’t be more specific right now as I’m only really thinking aloud, but reading some of the comments here – so different in tone from some of the main threads recently – is invigorating and cheering, so thanks abody.

  64. Fred says:

    Guys, this is the wee story about the Devil’s visit to Ruchill where he stayed for eight days. Some say he never left?

  65. Smallaxe says:

    Ian Brotherhood:

    Good to see you over here on O/T Brother, you’re not here often enough this past while.Don’t take too much onto your own shoulders, it’s not healthy, we need all our best people, like yourself, to be in good fettle for what will be the most important test of our stamina and patience in the battle for our Homeland.

    Thanks, for the Bowie track Space Oddity (from the 1980 Floor Show, filmed at the Marquee Club in London, October 19-20, 1973).

    Music soothes the savage breast!

    Peace Always my Brother

  66. Smallaxe says:


    Dinnae fash yersel wi’ thon link, all I did with the first ane was copy and take the go to option provided.Simples ๐Ÿ™‚

    Peace Always my “Manky Mate”

  67. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Smallaxe –

    Cheers friend, always a delight to get a direct message from you and I note all you say.

    Not taking on too much personally, but trying, with others, to lay some kind of basic framework for an ‘attack’ of sorts (literary, not physical) on the bastions. Long overdue, but vital if independence is to mean anything at all.

    I can’t be very specific, not because it’s a big secret, but because we still haven’t worked-out the best way of doing it. But we’re taking our time, doing it properly.


    The self-satisfied establishment of commissars and their lackeys, who’ve parked their arses in Scotland for decades, taking generous salaries at our expense in order to tell us what our culture is. There’s no aspect of Scottish cultural activity that they don’t infiltrate and dominate: ‘You will enjoy this, whether you like it or not.’

    Alasdair Gray, as you will know, got himself into a bit of ‘bother’ by pointing out the fucking obvious prior to the referendum – the attacks on him were astonishingly cruel considering he’s one of the few genuine cultural icons we have. No-one can say for sure if those attacks contributed to his accident and illness, but it’s a minor miracle that he’s still with us. Probably fair to say that he won’t be launching any similar ‘attacks’ in the foreseeable future. Likewise Kelman, who is now 70 and has never, ever (to my knowledge) been given the chance to talk about his work into a ‘live’ microphone. But even if those guys are now passing from the scene, they will not be forgotten, and every effort must be made to continue the fight they’ve been engaged in for the past four decades, one which can be traced directly back to MacDiarmid.

    ‘They’ can’t and won’t get away with it post-indy. I suspect you know precisely the kind of people I’m on about, and, more importantly, they know themselves who they are, and why their jacket-pegs are getting shooglyier by the day.

    Well, we’re preparing to give them their jotters, but won’t do so until the time is right – when that time comes (and here’s hoping it’s soon!) the whole cultural scene in Scotland will be transformed so utterly that none of us can imagine what will follow.

    Peace to you and yours mister.


    PS Sorry if this is a bit nosey, but did you ever meet John La Rose?

  68. Thepnr says:

    Hi all

    Just dropped in too as a break from the main thread. Hope your all doing well and spirits are still up. There’s a long way to go and we all need to stick in.

    Here’s an old tune with a modern twist about beating adversity and for a long time was “my song”. Think you might like the story too.

  69. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Given what’s just happened in the States, this feels suitably apocalyptic, but hey, it’s a braw tune!


    Bastille, ‘Pompeii’ –

  70. Thepnr says:

    Ha Ian

    Great tune BUT your son definitely introduced you to that! So what it was good.

  71. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr –

    Good to see you mister, this is becoming a bit of a reunion here…

    Nah, nah, no way, that was my pick. Love it. Don’t even know if my lad ever saw it.

  72. Thepnr says:

    Well done with that tune then at YOUR age LOL!

  73. Thepnr says:

    I missed your post about writers Ian until now. I was about 21 or 22 years old when I read “A Chancer” by Kelman. I was given it from a much older guy from Cumbernauld who told me he knew him.

    I was working on the rigs then you know the two weeks on for “big” money then the next two weeks spending it in the pubs and the bookies.

    This older, wiser guy says “here, read this. That’s you if you don’t learn any better”

    I read the book and I loved Tammas, I wanted to be him! Going to Ayr races and playing blackjack in casino’s until late in the night sounded much better to me than working on the rigs!

    It was all fantasy and Tammas was really a loser which is not easy to spot at 21. Anyway Kelman did deserve the Booker prize and just never got the recognition the likes of Rushdie did.

    Would have loved to have met Kelman, never say never maybe he might pop alaong to a Wings night for Indyref2 ๐Ÿ™‚

  74. Smallaxe says:

    Ian Brotherhood:

    One of the main reasons for me being involved the 1968 march on the American Embassy was the VSC ( Vietnam Solidarity Campaign) along with Tariq Ali, Vanessa Redgrave et al was urged on by the passion of the man you ask about.I never had the honour of meeting him but I had many dealings with mutual friends (Comrades/Socialist Workers) etc.

    I wish that I still had the vigour of youthfulness, I still have the passion which makes for much frustration but I still do a little in my own way with Friends from those days who I do and have always trusted with my life and my anonymity in certain situations.We grow fewer every year.

    I know you with others will carry on, that is a great comfort to me. I will not insult you by thanking you, what you do you do for the right reasons Comrade.

    Peace Love and People Power

  75. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Smallaxe –

    I hear you mister. Loud and clear.

    This following is from Gil-Scott Heron’s last album, a wee ‘interlude’ where he’s talking about his parents. Precious stuff:

  76. Smallaxe says:

    What’s goin’ on,

    Peace Always ALL WAYS

  77. Chick McGregor says:

    Appropriate time for a couple of golden oldies.

    First up, one of our current literature Nobel laureat’s finest, inspired by his own admission by our own Hamish Henderson’s ‘Farewell to Sicily’.

    And another the currency of which questions whether there is ever real change at all.

  78. Thepnr says:

    @Chick McGregor

    Absolute class Chic. We need to have a beer in Kirrie sometime, bring the wife I’ll bring mine. Make sure the pub accepts dogs, my two wee cairns that is not the wife ๐Ÿ™‚

  79. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Smallaxe –

    Brilliant links. Thanks.

  80. Smallaxe says:

    The South African Ambassador came to Glasgow, I went to the hospital and then to jail.

    Peace can be painful but for pain, we have PAIN KILLERS, for peace we have PEOPLE

  81. Smallaxe says:

    Good people here tonight

    You meet Him

    And then you beat Him

    Peace Always

  82. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Some good posts on ‘off-topic’ today, from the reprobates crawling out from behind the skirting boards – iye?

    Onnyhoo, had one of my rare Friday nights out tonight, along the Perth Road in Mennies, to celebrate Bob Costello’s 70th birthday (he of Team YES Bus).

    Had bra’ blethers with Chris Law, Bob himself and a “Labour” socialist who moved from NO to YES then back to NO in 2014. He also worked “with” a certain McTernan chappie at some point in 2014 but I was told I can’t repeat what he said so that’ll have to wait till our next eyeball. I left him with a “Wee Black Book”, to read and share. Also told him to search on YouTube for “Saviour Of The Union” and “The News Where You Are”.

    Tomorrow night is the Dundee SNP Burns Supper in the Apex Hotel. No doubt some bra’ blethers will take place there also…

    “Film at 11”, as they say in Kentucky Fried Movie…

  83. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    And if you’ve never experienced the delights of “Kentucky Fried Movie”, here you are…

  84. Smallaxe says:


    Hi, Brian, enjoy your “Rab the Ranter” evening.

    It’s comin’ yet for aw that!

    Peace Always my Friend

  85. Fred says:

    Smallaxe, you’re dealin wi a dinosaur here! Mrs Trump’s apples haven’t fallen far from that Lewis tree! one son a bevvy merchant & good company while the other’s an arsehole of a sanctimonious T/Totaller. Can’t wait for the state visit.

  86. Nana says:


    Missed you this morning, hoping you are just tired from being up so late last night.

    Take it easy Billy xx

  87. Fred says:

    This is for Donald Trump, Calum Kennedy singing his big hit, Mo Mhathair, (My Mother!) could have been written for Maw Trump hersel whateffer!

  88. Nana says:


    Just read your post on the new thread. I myself have had a few rattled ‘conversations’ with call centre employees who can’t understand my accent. To be fair I have had difficulty understanding theirs at time, hence the aggravation!

    Good to know you are ok.

  89. Smallaxe says:


    I’m ok, I left a message for you on the new thread by mistake! I’ve been on the phone all morning, London Calling and then Mumbai getting on my bits.

    Peace Always xx

  90. Smallaxe says:


    Any spare Angels? I could be doing with one right now.

    Peace Always

  91. Smallaxe says:

    Fred: For you

    Angels in an Angelic Caesar!

    Peace Always

  92. Smallaxe says:

    How come every time I try to write Alfa Lima Bravo Alfa it either comes out Hail and NOW Caesar! ??

    Peace Always

  93. Tinto Chiel says:

    Great to see the Heavy Team/Usual Suspects back on here last night, and some teaking music. A big improvement on those booze-soaked Manky Boys….. ๐Ÿ˜›

    Something reflective for a beautiful winter’s day.

    Nana, if you’re out there, you might like this:

    Martyn Bennett was a genius. Saw his mum on that programme about Hamish Henderson.

  94. Tinto Chiel says:

    And, BDTT, Michael Marra sounds wonderfully mad and intense in this one:

  95. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Smallaxe.

    I believe Rev Stu has a filter set up to substitute A-L-B-A. I think he did this because he was fed up of posters adding S-a-o-r A-l-b-a, or worse S-o-a-r A-l-b-a, to the end of comments.

    Pity it affects BBC A-l-b-a though.

  96. Smallaxe says:


    Thanks, Brian, I was beginning to think that I’d been hacked, turns out I’m just getting hacked off.

    Peace Always

  97. Nana says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    Thank you for that video, I loved it. I have to set some time aside to watch the rest.

    We have photos of my gran with the creel on her back, she and the other women of the village would walk for miles to bring peats home. These women were so hardworking.
    My cousins in Lewis, Canada and NZ have been busy documenting old family photos whilst building an archive. Many photos have turned up which have been a revelation.

    I’ve seen some discussion on here regarding family members and war so I thought you might find this interesting in relation to the Great war. For the bbc Alba programme I was contacted for information regarding my grandfather who was a prisoner at HMS Timbertown

    Think this is the programme

    Between my cousins and I, we managed to gather some photos and memorabilia relating to his internment none of which was known to me before. My granddad was a gentle, kind man who would not speak of such things which seems to be the norm amongst servicemen. My father did not speak of his experiences either.

  98. Tinto Chiel says:

    Glad you liked it, Nana. Martyn was a native speaker of Nova Scotian Gaelic, I believe.

    That was an amazing site: I had no idea we had troops interned in the Netherlands in WW1. I’m not clear while the men were starving. Were the Dutch themselves suffering from the effects of the war around them and could do little to help? Perhaps, since the men don’t seem to have had any ill-feeling towards them.

    The only good thing is that the internees seem to have avoided the Iolaire disaster.

    Your family project sounds fascinating. I hope it comes to fruition and it has a wider audience. I’m sure David Starkey will be along in a minute to make a documentary about it, you know, real people, real history ๐Ÿ˜›

    And I note Churchill at the bottom of yet another disaster. Good training for the Dardanelles and the betrayal of the Highland Division in 1940.

    Still makes my blood boil. Not good for my health, Nana.

    Thanks for all your work with your colleagues on the billboard campaign. The vandalism proves They’re very worried.

  99. carjamtic says:

    Tinto Chiel

    Class choice,been re-watching Fritz Lang’s Metropolis dvd,totally stunning,(digitally remastered/restored).

    I play my own music and mute the volume on the dvd,Blondie worked suprisingly well:-)

    (Seen them at Strathclyde Uni. years ago,pre fame.)

    The star of the film is Brigitte Helm as Maria,in today’s climate,it’s relevance/message has never been more obvious….Manky Good ๐Ÿ˜‰

  100. Nana says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    Here is a photo from the Stornoway gazette, you can see the men growing veg

    and the bbc alba documentary is on youtube

    Aye you are right, I think the powers that be are worried about the billboard campaign. Good!

  101. Smallaxe says:


    Got them, Boss, Thank You,
    Peace Always

  102. Tinto Chiel says:

    Very pleased that it’s on YouTube, Nana, ‘cos I don’t pay the Vichy Tax and you’re not supposed to watch BBC iPlayer without one now. Personally, I doubt the legality of that latest move, but I don’t want to give them any excuse. Big Ronnie probably knows the rights and wrongs of it.

    Will enjoy that BBC Alba documentary tomorrow. Even its football coverage is better than BBC Scotland’s apologetic “Yer crap and you should know it” coverage.

    Carjamtic: completely agree about Metropolis. So far ahead of its time it could meet itself coming back. Never more relevant, as you say, as USA and England descend into fascism.

    Another favourite of mine is “Seven Days in May”, a much later B&W film, but one about a fascist military takeover of the USA. Burt Lancaster great as the loopy general, Frederic March and Kirk Douglas as the good guys. Probs on YouTube, but the DVD is quite cheap. I think it might have been even better if BL and KD had swapped roles, but what do I know?

    Personalised soundtracks are ideal, or, as they’re known in the trade, Off Topic ๐Ÿ˜€

  103. carjamtic says:


    Thanks will check it out.

    Music…off topic,never.

  104. Smallaxe says:

    Music off topic? Never

    Peace Always


  105. Tinto Chiel says:

    So sad, so true, carjamtic, but the times…..

  106. Tinto Chiel says:

    Smallaxe, carjamtic and other proto-Manky Boys/Girls:

    If you have thirty-odd mins, do you remember lying on a bed and listening to this?

    Or was it just me?

  107. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Here’s one for Rock.

    Mott The Hoople, ‘Roll Away The Stone’ –

  108. Smallaxe says:


    The songs of my ancestors still ricochet through the wind,
    And the smoke is rising through the words I and I sing.
    Music is my ammunition; I fire down Babylon!

    The songs of my ancestors still ricochet through the wind,
    And the smoke is rising through the words I and I sing.
    Music is my ammunition; fire down Babylon!

    Imprisonment, poverty and Babylon’s system;
    We’ve been suffering all this time (all this time)
    I and I keep on chanting down ‘Till our children will face
    The front of that line

    The songs of my ancestors still ricochet through the wind
    (through the wind),
    And the smoke is rising through the words I and I sing.
    Music is my ammunition, lord; I fire down Babylon!

    The songs of my ancestors still ricochet through the wind,
    And the smoke is rising through the words I and I sing.
    Music is my ammunition, lord; I fire down Babylon!

    Peace and dignity are not very far out of our reach
    It just comes down (just comes down)
    to what I and I choose to teach

    Truth and honesty will free our hearts
    And free our minds (free our minds)
    So then our children can live together as one
    ‘Till the end of time

    The songs of my ancestors still ricochet through the wind,
    And the smoke is rising through the words I and I sing.
    Music is my ammunition, lord; I fire down Babylon!

    The songs of my ancestors still ricochet through the wind
    (through the wind),
    And the smoke is rising through the words I and I sing.
    Music is my ammunition, lord; I fire down Babylon!

    Music is my ammunition; I fire down Babylon!
    Music is my ammunition; I fire down Babylon!

    Music is my ammunition, lord; I fire down Babylon!

    Nuff Love Always

  109. Smallaxe says:

    Tinto, better tangerine than ORANGE O
    Ian, do you think we could roll him away? ๐Ÿ™‚
    carjamtic Great video and the song, of course

    Peace Always

  110. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Tinto, better tangerine than ORANGE O”

    Idubitably, Manky Mate.

    Haven’t quite recovered from certain late Scottish Cup events in the vicinity of Ibrox this afternoon.

    At these times, the Buddha has his attractions.

    “I’m all right, I’m all right, I’m all right, really……”

    And is there honey still for tea?

    And so to bed.

  111. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Smallaxe –



    Oh aye. Aye. It could and should happen again, in Scotland, but this time we should both instigate it and keep it close.

    I’m no historian, but my take on it is that London sucked away our best thinkers at a time when we needed them here. Not that anyone could blame any individual artist/thinker for leaving Scotland, but the damage had already been done well before then, when ‘oor’ King James decamped to London and took our Makars with him. That was an end to a solid and precious tradition stretching back to the bards/druids etc.

    We have this fresh stab at independence, but the cultural infrastructure has been so damaged, for so long, that we will struggle to reclaim or replicate what we once had. That why, for example, I cringe at the current appointment of ‘makars’ by the Scottish Government. Not that the recipients are not worthy of attention, but they’re not emerging from a genuinely independent cultural milieu. That’s what has to change – we must understand the importance of ‘real’ artists and, for want of a better word, ‘shamen’. They do exist, but we’ve lost contact with that respect for indigenous ‘bards’. There’s no telling what our artists are capable of if they not only know, but ‘feel’ they’re working in an independent nation.

    I get myself very down about all this, but your reminders of what’s been happening in Afro-American/Caribbean cultures gives solid cause for optimism.

    Hoots again to you brother.

    PS – So far as Rock goes, I’d happily spend the rest of my life listening to his boring pish if it meant we could just roll Trump away into a big deep hole.

  112. Smallaxe says:

    Three little Birds: SKA version

    Peace Always

  113. Tinto Chiel says:

    Ian B:

    Before I retire for the evening, may I offer you some spiritual sustenance re. Trump’n’Rock?

    All things must pass, after all.

  114. galamcennalath says:

    Some positive West Coast thinking for a Saturday night ๐Ÿ™‚

  115. Smallaxe says:

    Ian, my Brother, you make so much sense, I have written before about my time with a Shaman make no mistake they are real. In Jamaica, they call them “OBEA MEN”. They are grounded, they know their roots, that is what is missing with our own Makars, they are lost. I mean no disrespect when I say this about them. The “soul” is corrupted by 300 years of occupation.

    For you, my Brother, an old friend of mine who has now passed.

    One Love

  116. Fred says:

    Well guys, never post when you’re pished! however, in the Scotia today, absolutely jumping, a street urchin/arsehole shoves the pub door open & shouts, “Theresa May!” in. Still baffled! ๐Ÿ™‚

  117. Thepnr says:


    Great tune that I’d never heard, we really need a proper Radio Scotland that promotes our culture. Ach well we’ll jist hift tae wait.

  118. Thepnr says:

    I’ve found what I was looking for. My welcome to Trump as President.

    Don’t think he’ll enjoy it LOL. Believe me this is Soooperb. Ta Ian.

  119. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Love to all youse.

    Bit pished now, so bedways is bestways.

    Leave you with some mellowness.

    Fleetwood Mac, ‘Albatross’ –

  120. Thepnr says:


    You’ve nailed it with Us and Them as to how I’m feeling now.

    Used to lie on the couch when I’d fell out with the wife and stick on Dark side of the moon. This was my favourite.

    She still loves me by the way and me her ๐Ÿ™‚


    Beginning to sound like a sycophant but great pick with Fleetwood Mac.

  121. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Ian B.

    RE: mellow Fleetwood Mac.

    I was rather pleased to find this on YouTube 2 or 3 years ago. It’s the original version of the song, before SOMEBODY added the strings to make it more charty-friendly.

    I think it works better than the stringy version.

  122. Michael McCabe says:

    Gone in the morning-Newton Faulkner.

  123. Smallaxe says:

    Peter Green and the Splinter Group:


    Peter Green’s troubles since his departure from Fleetwood Mac in the early 70’s are well documented. After a number of years in the wilderness, he returned in the mid 90’s in the guise of the Peter Green Splinter Group and recaptured the magic of his early days. This concert, recorded in England in 2003, is made up of two sets. The first is a pared down acoustic set of predominantly vintage blues finished off by the all-time Fleetwood Mac classic Albatross, one of the most popular instrumentals ever written. The second is a full-on rocking electric set combining blues tracks, Splinter Group originals and other Fleetwood Mac classics.
    Peace Always

  124. Smallaxe says:

    Great to see you back Michael ๐Ÿ™‚


    Peace Always

  125. Thepnr says:

    @Michael McCabe

    Not watched yours yet Michael, just away too though. Before that though wanted to say to Brian Doonthetoon “I LOVED THAT SONG” cheers ๐Ÿ™‚

  126. Smallaxe says:

    It must be me ๐Ÿ™

    Albatross 1 hour loop

    Peace Always

  127. Thepnr says:

    @Michael McCabe

    That brought a smile to my face, think I will play it again. I said a couple of years ago that you were the “official” Wings DJ I wasn’t wrong. Your choice of music is brilliant Michael.

    Thanks buddy.

  128. Michael McCabe says:

    @ Smallaxe I noticed the wee tune you left me 21 jan. 1:56am Cheers my friend. I have not been posting but I still tune in every day to read the main thread. and to listen to all the great music and thoughts on off topic. anyway here is a wee tune for you. Mix up Mix up.

  129. Thepnr says:


  130. Michael McCabe says:

    @ Thepnr Hi Alex thanks for your kind words. Really looking forward to having a pint with you when you are in Edinburgh Sometime. Hoping you and yours are keeping well. A wee song for you. Passenger- and it Stoned Me.

  131. Michael McCabe says:

    A wee love song from Bob Marley.

  132. Thepnr says:

    @Michael McCabe

    You will like this, class.

  133. Michael McCabe says:

    Alex that was finger picken great. Cheers. Did I tell you ? I had a Dream.

  134. Thepnr says:

    @Michael McCabe

    WOW! That was deep, made me want to weep and it made me smile.

    Hey @Smallaxe you will like this, that’s a promise.

  135. Michael McCabe says:

    @ Thepnr Mind you Alex after Independence it should be this. Alex Mind and sing along.

  136. Smallaxe says:

    Tai chi, With music to awaken body and mind

    Peace always

    Catch you later Michael

  137. galamcennalath says:

    Thepnr says:
    at 12:07 am

    Great tune that Iโ€™d never heard, we really need a proper Radio Scotland that promotes our culture. Ach well weโ€™ll jist hift tae wait.

    Radio, yes. TV more so.

    BBC Alba do a great job as a national broadcaster. What we need next is a Scots language equivalent!

  138. Thepnr says:

    The original “Dueling Banjos”. Love it, good ringtone for your phone ๐Ÿ™‚

  139. Fred says:


  140. Smallaxe says:


    Thank you, for all your hard work, It’s very much appreciated.

    Peace Always

  141. Stoker says:

    No problem Smallaxe!

    No need to thank me all the time. The very fact you and several others have all expressed an interest is motivation enough for me to continue. I tend to back off from praise, must be some psychological thing, but having said that it is always good to see others adding their tuppence worth.

    So please don’t take it personally if i don’t respond to any comments you direct at me. Plus, these days i’m pretty much a hit and run poster due to various time sapping tasks and i’m spending less and less time on the btl threads. Can’t be arsed!

    Stay safe troops and have a good evening.

  142. CameronB Brodie says:

    Anything that helps focus minds is appreciated, Stoker. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Anyhoo, here’s something that might interest the educators out there, or anyone who would like to think of “the essence of education as the practice of freedom”. So it’s not for the likes of the BBC then.


  143. Tinto Chiel says:

    CameronB: thanks for this.

    It’ll probably go woosh over my cranium but I’ll give it a go.

    Half-listening to Pravdasound4 on Victor Hugo and Les Miserables. Andrew Marr does his best to acquire an English accent and everyone gets excited that the novel was written on Guernsey.

    Almost an English novel, then.


  144. Fred says:

    Guys The” Federation of the Disco Pimp!” Gaun tae see them @ St Jude’s next week.

  145. Thepnr says:

    Thought I would ask you to look at this one again. Chic posted this a couple of days ago and I can’t get it out of my mind.

    I want you to suffer too as I am ๐Ÿ™‚

  146. Tinto Chiel says:

    That song terrified me when I was 11, Thepnr, along with Zager and Evans “In the year…..” It has a similar effect today, along with a more adult feeling of general depression.

    This one makes me angry and disgusted with the mad war-mongers who ensure the world-wide arms industry makes fortunes out of human misery.

  147. Thepnr says:

    Well cheers Tinto. Now I have new pictures of pain to replace the old pictures I couldn’t get rid of. I need a distraction, something to make me smile.

  148. Thepnr says:

    And 40 years later an excellent performance. Plus a slagging of Jeremy Clarkson which never goes amiss.

  149. Tinto Chiel says:

    Yes, sorry about that. Hey, Chic started it!

    I liked the version when Steve sang in his gran’s fur coat.

  150. Thepnr says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    I went to see Steve Harley at Edinburgh’s Queens Hall in 2010. A great venue as you sit at your table with a pint if you like while watching the show.

    He was on stage for at least an hour and a half and was brilliant, it was hard to believe that he was 60 years old. I know this is three in a row but so what. Here is SH playing in his grans fur coat.

  151. Tinto Chiel says:

    Yep, that’s the one, although my memory deceived me, it’s just a fur collar.

    Glad to see he’s still rockin’.

    Previous reply disappeared into the ether.

  152. Thepnr says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    No your right! He did play that song once in a full fur coat, I could probably find it but I’ll spare us all of having a fourth version of the tune lol. Maybe another day.

  153. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tinto Chiel
    Do you think it wasn’t a struggle for me just getting past the Foreword? Cheers mate, hope you find the effort worthwhile. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  154. Tinto Chiel says:

    Cameron, I’m actually reading it in bed while Mrs TC is downstairs watching Gray’s Lobotomy. Saved Fiere to my faves. How many bloody series does GL have?

    If I survive the night I may issue a bulletin in the morning…..


    So my Steve Harley fur coat wasn’t imaginary? That’s a relief. Not quite softening of the brain yet, Thepnr. Harvey my giant rabbit’s enjoying this literary theory…

  155. Still Positive. says:

    Ian Brotherhood: thoroughly enjoyed the crossword in The National today – very clever and amusing in parts.

  156. Thepnr says:

    Theresa May and the Tories speak out on Brexit

  157. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Still Positive –

    Very kind, thank you. I aim to please!

  158. Nana says:


    Missed you the last couple of days. Hoping you are well.

  159. yesindyref2 says:

    I’ve been accused by a poster in the Herald of “hamming it up”.

    As if ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚

  160. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Just going back to the Fleetwood Mac mentions of a couple of days ago.

    I saw them in the Caird Hall in 1969, on their “Farewell Tour”. Me and my cousin had front row seats, because the John Dummer Band had been advertised as the support band and we liked them, having seen them at The New Dines at Dundee Uni the year before.

    I believe the JD Band had one of their many break-ups and reformings just before the start of the tour and the support slot was taken by another band – can’t remember who it was.

    Fleetwood Mac, for one of their encores, did a cracker of a song. It started off really slowly, with the chords and arpeggios of “La Bamba”, building up over a couple of minutes into “Twist And Shout”. ‘Twas good…

    BTW: because we were in the front row, we could see the piano but not who was playing it. Turned out it was Jeremy Spencer and, because he was a shortarse, from the angle of the front row, we couldn’t see him until he came out from behind the piano, to play a guitar, which dwarfed him.

    A marvellous gig.

    And, believe it or not, I just did a search on Youtube and found a live version of “Twist and Shout”. Not as good as the one in my memory but, hey, can one trust one’s memory as the years advance?

  161. Thepnr says:

    Great story BDTT.

  162. Liz g says:

    Still no Smallaxe….Hmm

    Hope everything is okay with you, some sanity needed on Wings,you better have a good excuse for being AWOL.

    Seriously though stay well my friend and check in to say Hi when you can. X

  163. Cactus says:

    Not too lang tae go now..

    Independence imminent.

  164. Meg merrilees says:

    Liz g, Nana

    No comments from Smallaxe since 6.45pm on 22nd!

    Hope all is well and that you will be back ‘posting’ soon.

    Take care and stay warm.

  165. Paula Rose says:

    Just one of those moments…

  166. Liz g says:

    Meg Merrilees @ 1.39 & Nana.

    RE. Smallaxe I,do remember that he said something about using his time prioritising his grandson.
    So hopefully it’s just family stuff keepin him busy…..

    Which if you read this Smallaxe is indeed a good excuse for being AWOL….The best one in fact
    Stay well my friend X

  167. Nana says:

    @Liz g

    I know Smallaxe was having some internet connection problems.

    As you say Liz, perhaps he is just taking some time out.

  168. Liz g says:

    Nana @ 7.31
    Hi Nana we can stop worrying…. Smallaxe was on line else where lasts night..And he specifically asked that you were told he was ok.
    Canny mind who he was chatting to and they’re probably still in bed.
    But he was definitely ok enough to be,by the sounds of it, up to something.. LOL..

  169. Nana says:

    @Liz g

    Mmmm, now what could he be up to I wonder. Maybe its best we don’t know, lol

    I must say I miss him when he doesn’t put the kettle on in the morning!

    Good to know he is ok and thanks Liz for passing on the message.

  170. Liz g says:

    Nana @ 10.33

    Nae bother Nana.. I just hope I hiv no compromised Border Security.

  171. Tinto Chiel says:

    Good news for music lovers and those with a refined sense of humour: the builders have sliced through my phone line so I have no home internet connection. Writing this in a vile cybernat cafe.

    Spent a night wondering what Wingers were saying about the judges.

    I feel better now…..

  172. K1 says:

    The haggis by the bush is by post box at the corner. Please feed the haggis Smallaxe. Over and out. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  173. Andrew McLean says:

    K1 & Small Axe,
    you two panning for gold?

  174. meg merrilees says:

    Liz g. Nana

    Thanks for the update re Smallaxe.

    Good to know all is well though I’m suspicious now. Could he be carrying out a border tally for more accurate Scottish/English export stats.

  175. Liz g says:

    Meg Merrilees @ 3.45
    You’re welcome Meg, I just happened to see his name crop up as posting at stupid o’clock and ….Well ….. Peeked!

    Haven’t got a clue what he is up to but now that you are saying about “border reconnaissance” I am half wondering if he is now our international man of mystery????

    I suppose we will know if he changes his call sign from…
    # Peace Always to # The name’s Smallaxe B Smallaxe.

  176. Meg merrilees says:

    Liz g. Ach! mibbe he’s just been oot catching haggis!

  177. Liz g says:

    Meg Merrilees @ 8.20
    Well if that’s his story Meg, I suppose we will just have to believe him…To obliged him Eh?
    But if Mrs Smallaxe shows up and starts asking why on earth he want a vodka Martini and shaken forby!!!!
    We will need to have a rethink.

  178. Michael McCabe says:

    Different Singer Different Song. Morning Time

  179. Michael McCabe says:

    @ Smallaxe A wee song for you until you return. Haste ye back as I miss your Music.

  180. Scott says:

    Is this what our Foreign aid is supposed to be for.

  181. Scott says:

    Tried posting this before is this what our Foreign aid is meant to do.

  182. Stoker says:

    Scott (9:13am & 9:20am)

    Good find Scott! Coming from a military family i was aware of this but it’s not exactly uppermost in my daily thoughts. Well done and thanks for alerting the wider independence movement.

  183. Cactus says:

    Aweright K1 ~

    To find a specific Wingers comment, what you got to do is this:

    Press yer (Ctrl) key with the letter ‘F‘ to find the name via a drop-down box, which will be displayed at the top RHS of your screen.

    Aweright Smallaxe, cheers to both you and K1, panners of gold ๐Ÿ™‚

    Here’s to the QT on the OT!

  184. Nana says:

    Hi all,

    Does anyone know if scrolling advertising ‘thingies’ can be adapted to show short videos.

    Scrolling ad trailers

  185. Paula Rose says:

    Wings meet-up Aberdeen 17th or 18th of March?

  186. Cactus says:


  187. Meg merrilees says:

    Wonder if Smallaxe is building a new border wall himself?

    Hope all well.

  188. Cactus says:

    Pretty heated on the main thread tonight..

    Time to throw a new log on the off topic fire..

    Slow burn.


  189. yesindyref2 says:

    To shed some light on the main topic of interest, and give my serious opinion on the whole shebang, I have elucidated at length to produce my own esoteric heap wordy lyricising of the state of play and instead found this.


    The Owl and the Pussy-cat went to sea
    In a beautiful pea green boat,
    They took some honey, and plenty of money,
    Wrapped up in a five pound note.
    The Owl looked up to the stars above,
    And sang to a small guitar,
    ‘O lovely Pussy! O Pussy my love,
    What a beautiful Pussy you are,
    You are,
    You are!
    What a beautiful Pussy you are!’


    Pussy said to the Owl, ‘You elegant fowl!
    How charmingly sweet you sing!
    O let us be married! too long we have tarried:
    But what shall we do for a ring?’
    They sailed away, for a year and a day,
    To the land where the Bong-tree grows
    And there in a wood a Piggy-wig stood
    With a ring at the end of his nose,
    His nose,
    His nose,
    With a ring at the end of his nose.


    ‘Dear pig, are you willing to sell for one shilling
    Your ring?’ Said the Piggy, ‘I will.’
    So they took it away, and were married next day
    By the Turkey who lives on the hill.
    They dined on mince, and slices of quince,
    Which they ate with a runcible spoon;
    And hand in hand, on the edge of the sand,
    They danced by the light of the moon,
    The moon,
    The moon,
    They danced by the light of the moon.

    I hope this helps to resolve some of the confusion.

  190. yesindyref2 says:

    Quote of the week from the main thread, had me p’ing myself laughing, I’m just back:

    Aye you fucking well do

  191. carjamtic says:

    I need some Indy Face Book pages to follow,like,share etc.

    Nothing too mental,the fake news brigade are out in force and I only have one pair of hands ๐Ÿ˜‰

    (Edited clips of the buffalo rider ‘giving it to’ FM at FMQT is the latest doing the rounds,of course we don’t get to see FM’s reply,stage managed performance or what,all for the benefit of social media)


  192. carjamtic says:

    Paula Rose @ 7:36



  193. Quentin Quale says:

    Paula – Yes to an Aberdeen meet-up.

    In the light of the state of the US, probably a good time to play this

  194. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi peeps.

    RE: proposed Aberdeen get-together on 18th March weekend. I know that I can’t do it, because I have a family wedding on the 18th, outwith Dundee.

    Also, Pete is still in hospital but is hoping to be out so he can attend the BBC Bias demo on 26th March. Is the 18th not a tad close to the following week’s event?

    There’s a march/rally being organised for 29th April in Glasgow. How about a Wings get-together after that event? We could take over the usual corner in The Counting House…
    Or our table in The YES Bar…

  195. Thepnr says:

    I’m up for any meet up as long as I can make it. My work is sporadic and not 5 days a week so I never know. Anyway it’s good that we keep these going, they don’t have to be big though I like them to be visible.

    Come Indy2 I can see Ian B’s idea of a regular place being available and being visited.

    Keep up the good work all. We tune mibbe appropriate and welcome back to the main thread Smallaxe.

  196. Marie Clark says:

    Hi Guys & Gals,

    I’m getting a bit pissed off with the main thread at the moment, but, hey ho, when there ain’t much in the news? that’s what happens. Not much to comment about, “REALLY” Trump, being a first class trumpet, and May being a first class are licker, if you’ll pardon my french. The trolls being their usual shit spewing selfs, and folks biting. Sigh.

    Onyways. welcome back smallaxe to the main thread, I thocht we micht hiv tae send oot a search party fur ye. Pleased tae see that you’re a’ richt.

    Peace and sanity tae all. Boy are the yoons realy, really, rattled, or we widnae be getin as much incoming shit as we are. Tin hats on boys, it’s aboot tae get a whole lot worse. But, dae ye know whit, I think we will win this fight. Keep gon folks.

  197. yesindyref2 says:

    The 77th haven’t got a monopoly on PsyOps. Fight fire with fire.

    Or a big hose!

  198. yesindyref2 says:

    @Marie Clark
    Thread Creep. The longer it goes on, the more off-topic it gets, and once you get into off-topic stuff, the flames get higher and higher. I quickly found one slighly irrelevant description, there would be better:

    Answer would be to have more articles, but that could dimimish the index of Wings – it’s a balance for a blog I guess.

  199. Marie Clark says:

    Aye I ken yesindeyref2, but it sometimes just dis yer heid in.

    I think the folks that take on the trolls, and I know sometimes they feel it’s for the best of reasons, I understand that. But, they do what the trolls want in the first place, which is to derail the main thread. It’s a real pain in the bahookey for me.
    That’s why It’s nicer off topic.

    I mean. I come hear and Tinto Cheil plays one of my favourite tracks. Smallaxe is great with his thoughts and his music. It makes me chill and have a laugh.

    The main fight is yet to come, and I think at the moment, I’m just in training, for knocking doors an leafleting and things.

    Vive le revelution an a’that. As smallaxe would say PEACE to all.

  200. Thepnr says:

    @Marie Clark

    I have a theory and it’s that the Rev does this deliberately every now and again. Well he sees the way a thread is going and allows it to run it’s course.

    It’s self cleansing and has happened many times, maybe it’s a good way of healing old wounds and people come back stronger. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Have a good night.

  201. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I’ll throw in one of my infrequent music videos here, while I’m waiting for my samosas, pakoras and bahjis to get active in the oven.

    I remember this from Christmas/New Year 1963 (1964?) and being well impressed with the change that had taken place in the British music scene in the space of three years.

    Just three years before…

  202. yesindyref2 says:

    Could be. He doesn’t moderate it, which means it has to be self-moderating – just like the old wild west of unmoderated UseNet was. A group that didn’t do that, died.

  203. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Thepnr.

    I think you could be on to something there, re: the Rev’s wicked sense of humour.

    I’ve noticed, in the past, but particularly since Hogmanay, that he allows pages to flip over to the >500 page, where things tend to “gang aft agley”. Yi ken whuh eh mean, iye?

    I bet he’s doing it on purpose…


  204. yesindyref2 says:

    Yeah, muzack:

    Hope you’re getting video, I’m not.

  205. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi yesindyref2.

    Videos fine on my leedle Mac. Must be your windoze machine complaining. So,

  206. yesindyref2 says:

    I can see that, and the others you posted, not the ones I did. Different format I guess.

    Mmm, ahhh, it’s because I have ABP – I had to disable it on youtube. Can’t blame them I guess! Mmm, for an old favourite of mine full screen.

  207. Thepnr says:


    That Eurovision clip was a belter, good Feryy ones from you and yesindyref2 as well.

  208. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi yesindyref2.

    What’s “ABP”?

    Onnyhoo… my last offering tonight before I go bedwise. I was introduced to the “Tartan Techno” album when I DJ’d a 14th birthday birthday party yonks ago. This track was the most asked for.

    The video is one that I have shown at our Wings Invergowrie get-togethers. An appropriate song for the times we find ourselves in.

  209. Michael McCabe says:

    Anybody fancy a Revolution ?

  210. Smallaxe says:

    Hi, Michael and all.

    Only home for a short rest, more to do then I’ll be back ASAP.

    Peace and Love to ALL

  211. Liz g says:

    Stay well Smallaxe and don’t forget we want details of these mysterious jaunts!!!???….Love to Mrs Smallaxe. X

  212. yesindyref2 says:

    AdBlockPlus. Firefox add-on. Makes the likes of the Herald a lot quicker ๐Ÿ™‚

    It’s really Ferry good.

  213. Smallaxe says:

    liz g:

    Ask no questions and you’ll be told no lies.Everything will be alright in the end if it’s not alright then it’s not the end!

    Peace Always x

  214. Michael McCabe says:

    Hi Smallaxe good to see you back. This place seemed kind of without you.

  215. Smallaxe says:

    Only back for a short time, Michael.I’ll see you when I get back my Friend.

    It’s been,

    Peace Always

  216. Michael McCabe says:

    Ok Smallaxe see you when you get back. Until then

  217. Fred says:

    Smallaxe, my manky friend, all will be well!

  218. yesindyref2 says:

    In honour of Pete on the main thread, bless.

  219. Tinto Chiel says:

    Hey, Smallaxe, you’re such a tease! I bet you’re down Ronnie Scott’s listening to the good vibes.

    Or mebbes out doing guard duty?

    No internet ben the hoose the noo but I recommend YouTube and On the Border by Al Stewart.

    Love to all.

  220. Michael McCabe says:

    Sorry this is a lot later than your post Tinto.

  221. Chick McGregor says:

    Scots lassie, great voice, amazing control, pitch perfect, dignity, feeling the lot.

  222. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thanks, Michael. That’s the one.

    Having to use the 3G on my phone at the moment.

  223. Marie Clark says:

    Chic McGregor @12.55 wow, just wow. I ken the tune fine, but I’ve never heard it sung until now.

    What a voice. Fair maks the hair oan the back o’ yer neck staun up.

    Thanks for that Chic, just beautiful.

  224. Fred says:

    @ Chick, chust sublime kid!

  225. yesindyref2 says:

    Sheesh I wish Mason would restrict his use of twitter to announcements and “I visited X today”. More bloody stories in the unionist press on the way I expect. Some people need a minder.

  226. yesindyref2 says:

    Bad enough with Williamson swallowing the unionist bait in the SH, hook line and sinker – and still going on about it. Divistions divisions divisions anyone would think he’s the HoC.

  227. Michael McCabe says:

    Hopefully soon though.

  228. Michael McCabe says:

    That Boy needs Therapy

  229. twathater says:

    Saw an article earlier on beeb news about guy Geoff Ellis walking about Glasgow Green as if he were the Laird o Glasgow, pointing out that he was running a music festival there in the summer and getting a free advert from the state broadcaster naming all the bands.

    This is the same guy?? who runs T in the Park in Strathallan who told everybody that T was taking a break for a year , all of a sudden he’s rested and back to the day job.

    He said that Strathallan had too many expenses eg police and security , and that the LA were imposing too many restrictions making it problematic.
    This is the same guy and company who were given ยฃ150,000 by Fiona Hyslop to help with the expense of moving and then decides to cancel the 3rd 2017 festival

    WTF is going on, is this guy running a massive con on Scotland . Is big Frankie helping out wi the arrangements to fraternize wi the hoi palloy.

    This guy is running a for profit business, he shouldn’t be given ANY financial assistance unless we get share of the profits
    I know that these festivals can bring massive amounts of money and goodwill via tourism and suchlike , but i am sure the SG government have someone within their ranks who have the ability to organise these events and keep the money and goodwill within the community

  230. Michael McCabe says:

    This is a main thread Song. Bring it on.

  231. Smallaxe says:

    Which side are You on!

    Peace, Love and Solidarity in the YES movement.

  232. Tomorrow is the 58th Anniversary of the death in a plane crash at Clear lake, Iowa of Buddy Holly (and two other pop stars and the pilot).
    My “Not Fade Away” show on Argyll Independent Radio (8pm – 9 9pm) will feature an hour of interesting covers of some of Buddy Holly’s hits. Could have been two or three hours actually.

  233. Meg merrilees says:


    i know quite a few of the tech guys that are involved in these big outdoor festivals, from the backstage side of things. They work around the whole UK and abroad on all the big music festivals and tours. Don’t speak highly of T in the Park in Strathallan. They said it was a nightmare site because corners were cut, safety was compromised, not well planned etc..

    Don’t forget, this is a festival where a hole-in-the-wall cash machine was stolen on the first night; there has been a death and rape and a complete lack of strategy to efficiently transport the people around the site before and after the gig.

    I wonder how it will go in Glasgow – will there be more scrutiny from Environmental health and HSE?

    And when will the company pay back the unused third – i.e. ยฃ50,000 of the money he received from the Scottish Government?

  234. Fred says:

    Young Glasgow band “Fat Suit!” played St Luke’s last night. Superb.

  235. Smallaxe says:

    โ€œIn a democracy, the poor will have more power than the rich, because there are more of them, and the will of the majority is supreme. –Aristotleโ€

    Peace Always

  236. Stoker says:

    WOS Archives for May 2013

    Well, that didn’t take long

    You Couldn’t Make It Up Dept

    Why Labour are to blame for UKIP

  237. Stoker says:

    WOS Archives for May 2013

    The not-so-smart money

    The phantom menace

  238. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thanks again, Stoker.

    Bad news for all you vile cyber seps: my internet is restored.

    Stuck in painting all day, but this came on my radio in the morning and cheered me up:

  239. Tinto Chiel says:

    And for no apparent reason, this came into my head:

    Independence; are we nearly there yet?

  240. Stoker says:

    Goodnight troops!

  241. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I am always humbled after spending 20-25 minutes putting together a comment, checking out links and so on, to find that I have SO hit the nail on the head that other Wingers are sitting back at their keyboards, dumfoonirt at my eloquence at my providing the answer to life, the universe and everything, rendering their typing fingers numb.

    It’s not too often I comment on the main pages, usually limiting myself to passing on advice or info but, twice, tonight and last night, I THOUGHT I had added to to the discussion, possibly taking the ongoing discussion in another direction, thus expected maybe one or two follow-up comments from other Wingers.

    Nope. not a sausage. Possibly, the first paragraph of this comment contains the answer to my consternation. If anyone wants to read what I typed, you can find them at the links below.

    From the “Bringing It On” page:-

    From the “What Fake News Looks Like” page:-

    I must type that Robert J. Sutherland did reply to the “One Show” remark in that second comment but I don’t really think he checked out the links in the main part of the comment. To me, there was more meat there, meriting further discussion.

    I suppose my habit of reading EVERY comment before I add in my tuppence worth could add to my consternation. So often I see someone making a point or asking a question and they manage to garner multiple repetitions from half a dozen Wingers, all giving the same answer. What makes those comments so inspirational that peeps immediately disregard all the subsequent comments to go straight to the comment box?

    Maybe I should stick to ‘off-topic’, offering links to emotional, insightful videos, like this one, what reminds me of the original vinyl album, what I bought in the 70s and still possess in my vinyl archive roomie.

    Now, I am off to partake of a nosebag, then Bedfordshire.

  242. Thepnr says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    I worked in Mobile Alabama about 10 years ago and have some good and some bad memories. We started work early in the shipyard each day at 07:00 so were always down for breakfast in the hotel around 06:00 and it would be dark outside.

    Across the road from the hotel breakfast room was one of those white painted churches you must have seen in films about the deep South. Anyway as we sat eating breakfast you would see people start to gather on the steps of the church.

    This was at 6 in the morning, these were the homeless who slept on the streets of Alabama. They were almost exclusively black people who had come to be fed as they would be given a breakfast for free at 07:00 by volunteers. It was a sorry sight.

    The other thing I most remember was a guy that worked for us doing odd jobs and driving, a huge black guy who had spent time in prison, apparently he had been caught with a machine gum in his car boot and that was why he was jailed!! While working for us he had charge of the minibus that he used to take us to work, he stole it or sort of. He went missing for days with it, no charges were brought but that’s another story lol.

    His story though was of Hurricane Katrina that hit New Orleans in 2005 about a year before we were there and was a cracker. He described how the winds were roaring down his street, he got his family and put them all in the cupboard under the stairs.

    He could hear the tiles being ripped from the roof and trees were flying down the street. He thought about escape and getting out of the house, would it be possible?

    With great effort he opened the front door only to witness mayhem in front of him. Then he spotted a squirrel clinging to a tree outside his door, nails deeply embedded in it’s trunk and it’s tail horizontal.


    He meant it and this is all true. He and his family survived, no one knows how the squirrel done.

  243. Thepnr says:


    I read your posts mate and there always a good contribution to the debate. Never mind what others think I love your input.

    That Derek and Clive clip you just put up was class. I was at Newmarket races once and this geezer when I asked for a light says you Scotch…

  244. Smallaxe says:


    It happens to us all Brian, it can be hurtful I know, you post what you think is relevant and interesting and nobody seems to notice.

    Keep posting my friend, I for one read all comments but by the time I get an answer ready the thread has moved on, so I don’t post.

    Peace Always to you, my Friend

  245. Smallaxe says:

    George Orwell. Spoof! but truth

    Peace Always

  246. Michael McCabe says:

    This is a lovely wee song-Marshmallow Unicorn

  247. Smallaxe says:

    Nice one Michael

    More Unicorns: ๐Ÿ™‚

    Peace Always

  248. Stoker says:

    Brian Doonthetoon on 4 February, 2017 at 1:50 am:
    Jeezo, Brian, where to start, where to start?

    I speed read both those comments you link to when you originally posted them, as i always do with ALL your comments and if your comments are of interest to me i’ll go back and read it/them again before moving on.

    The only criticisms (if you can call it criticism) i would make of some of your comments is that sometimes they are too long winded for my attention span and/or they’re way beyond anything of interest to me or within my field of knowledge.

    However, having said that, see if this makes up for that. As you know i’ve been trawling the WOS Archives for valuable articles to keep for my self and i’ve been giving others the opperchancity to do likewise.

    For PC capacity reasons etc i don’t want the btl threads which follow the articles, even though i agree with K1’s thinking that a lot of good info can be gained from said threads, but most of them are usually irrelevant to the preceding article.

    My way around this little problem was to set up my own wee library collection of quality comments/references from btl commenters. My library will consist of several A5-size hardback books and the qualifying criteria/standard for getting into one of my wee books is set very high, not just any old guff.

    You, Brian, hold the heady position of being the first Winger to start that library off with your comment on the Courier/SNHS back in January on the “If i am right and you are sinful” thread.

    So don’t beat yourself up about it, f@”k, i get ignored all the time but i honestly don’t give a monkey’s. It’s an open blog and those reading it can see what’s going on. Plus, i tend to take Auld Boabs approach to posting comments and post them for the wider reading audience who don’t post.

    So cheer up dear fellow and keep the info coming on the appropriate threads, especially your thoughts etc on SNHS articles, they are very much appreciated and needed.

  249. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thepnr: I’ve never been to the South myself but a good friend drove coast to coast in a camper van and spent quite a lot of time down there. He said it was a strange mixture of great kindness from ordinary folks and frightening racism, with Confederate flags very common. I’m going to the West Coast in May for a Significant Birthday but confess I’m feeling a bit nervous about visiting The States now they’ve been Trumped. Only been to NYC for a short time previously.

    BDTT: your posts are always thoughtful but just because people don’t comment doesn’t mean they don’t read your comments. Like you I always read the thread before commenting and so rarely say anything myself on the MT since someone has usually already said what I was going to say, only better.

    And some people don’t read longer posts or follow up links, as Stoker said.

    The site would be diminished without your thoughtful, eclectic stuff. I often find O/T more relaxing and interesting than The Other Place, since 77th Brigade rarely drop in behind the Green Door to stir things, and I like it that way: saves me immediately scrolling past the usual suspects.

    Mair poo’r tae yer elbuck

  250. Nana says:


    You have maybe been overdoing things lately Billy. Take it easy and stay well xx

  251. Smallaxe says:


    Health not good at all but I don’t want everyone asking about me. Keep them on the more important things. Thank you for your Friendship. Hope to be back ASAP.

    Peace and Love Always

    Billy xxx

  252. Nana says:


    I thought as much Billy, just know we will still be here getting on with the fight.

    Give my best to Mrs Smallaxe and you rest well xx

  253. Smallaxe says:

    Will do Nana, Thank you.

    Peace Always xxx

  254. Chick McGregor says:


    Must confess, because I usually just get time at the end of the day, I tend to use the down arrow to get to the bottom and then just scroll up a few messages. Consequently I miss a lot.

    However, probably due to hastily written and therefore frequently not very well constructed posts, I hardly ever get a response myself.

  255. Stoker says:

    Listening to some mooozac whilst working on a wee project and thought i’d share some tunes with the troops.

    The Trashmen – Surfin’ Bird

    NAW, it’s goat nuffin tae dae wae yon bint on the BBC.

  256. Stoker says:

    The Dave Clark Five – Red Balloon

    The Dave Clark Five – I Like It Like That

    The Dave Clark Five – Good Old Rock ‘N’ Roll

  257. Tinto Chiel says:

    Wow, Stoker! That was LOUD! My ears are still recovering…..

    Heard this coming back from the fitba’ and thought it suitable advice for us all between now and Independence Day.

    Btw, I saw George ForFoulkesSake at close quarters today *shudders* and reckon you could wring a couple of haufs out of his hooter.

    Not a pretty sight.

  258. Tinto Chiel says:

    I meant The Trashmen. Sinuses now clear ๐Ÿ˜›

  259. Stoker says:

    The Tremeloes – Suddenly Winter

    The Tremeloes – My Little Lady

  260. Stoker says:

    OK, TC, here’s a wee change of pace jist furr you ๐Ÿ™‚

    Luke Bryan – All My Friends Say

    Absolutely magically brilliant tune….

  261. Tinto Chiel says:

    After that rugby match, Stoker, I’m in a darkened room trying to find my way back to emotional equilibrium.

    Plainchant rules.

  262. Stoker says:

    TC, your link at 5:05pm isn’t working.

  263. Tinto Chiel says:

    Just as well, perhaps. I’ve noticed that quite often after a link is put on here, YouTube seems to disable it. That link worked for me once it appeared on here but seems to have been “unavailable” soon after.

    Let’s try another:

    Now I’ve got my broadband mojo back, I’m off to watch Nana’s HMS Timbertown on my Apple TV box.

    Smallaxe: no border patrols for a while. Take a break!

  264. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    RE: my post of last night.

    Thanks for your comments. I needed a wee rant…

    Re my second link,

    “Global Warming” is the media’s term of choice. However, I would point this out…

    There have been 25 ice ages in the past 2 and a half million years. Each period has lasted around 100,000 years, made up of around 90,000 years of glaciation and around 10,000 years of ‘interglacial’. The last ice age ended around 11,500 years ago – that’s how long we have been in this particular interglacial period.

    Proven by ice cores and ocean bed cores, at the end of previous interglacials, the CO2 level in the atmosphere was around 310 parts per million. We’re now sitting at around 380ppm.

    The switch from interglacial to glaciation usually took place over around 50 years. The years of switch over were accompanied by increased volcanic/tectonic activity and what could be termed ‘weird weather’ – unexpected snowfalls, hurricanes, and so on.

    I’ll stop here. I’ll just point out that if the average global temperature keeps rising, more ice from the polar caps will melt. In the northern hemisphere, if all that fresh water from melting ice is dumped into the far north Atlantic, the Atlantic Conveyor (including the Gulf Stream) will grind to a halt.

    We, in the British Isles, will lose its warming effect. Our climate will become similar to other areas at the same latitude, like southern Greenland and Hudson Bay, ie we’ll be in the next ice age.

    If you want further reading, try this book, which is available for download as a pdf, so you can read it at your leisure.

  265. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    And here’s a wee video for yooz. My son flagged it up to me. Not music but I found it rather good… “The Gunfighter”.

  266. It came to me in a dream. The solution. Explosive suppositories. Programmed to go off to identified voices. First contaminate the food of Tory and Labour members in the cafeteria at Holyrood. Then proscribe these suppositories to them. Kezia gets up at FMQ and starts squeaking . Poof! Off goes James Kelly. Pop! Off goes Iain Gray. Nicola turns to Ruthie. Ruthie growls. Bang! Off goes Murdo Fraser. Whump! Away goes Tompkins. Do you think we could get this together?

  267. K1 says:

    I think that perfectly describes what they all do week in week oot Dave…running aff at their mooth’s is pretty much aw ah hear whenever any of them opens their gub’s.

    (Anyway, think o’ the smell in the chamber? Dae wi really want oor lot suffering their excrement ‘and’ the ‘added’ smell o’ it besides? ๐Ÿ˜‰ )

  268. Tinto Chiel says:

    I’m old enough to remember Tomorrow’s World in the late 60s, when James Burke et al. used to bang on about an imminent new Ice Age. Those of us who lived in East Kilbride at the time were unfazed by this prediction, of course.

    As BDTT says, a likely effect of any GW is the diverting or stopping of the Atlantic Conveyor, which would give us Moscow-style winters.

    Looks like it’s going to be cold in an independent Scotland.

    In any case, I like snow-shoes.

  269. Stoker says:


    How did you enjoy HMS Timbertown? Very interesting isn’t it?
    I seen it several weeks ago and up to that point i was never
    aware of that wee bit of history and i’ve done quite a bit of
    family history research.

    Also enjoyed your wee history discussions with Smallaxe & Co
    because a section of my research was in and around Glasgow –
    Gorbals, Govanhill, the Belvidere Hospital and the asylum etc.

    I keep promising myself that i’ll get back into it because i
    really enjoy doing it and i’ve got many other lines still to
    be researched and completed, but i also keep telling myself
    that it can wait, that the fight for independence is much more

    I guess there’s no point to family history if we don’t shape it.

  270. Betty Boop says:

    @ Dave McEwan Hill

    Your dream certainly conjures up a “delightful” vision, but, who needs explosive suppositories for Murdo Fraser when we have a not so secret weapon in Ivan McKee?

  271. Stoker says:

    WOS Archives for June 2013

    The option that just won’t die

    Subtlety gauge miscalibrated again

    The story of Project Fear

  272. Tinto Chiel says:

    Stoker: We had only got started on HMS T today when we got an unexpected family visit but we’ll finish it tomorrow. Really enjoying it up to then. I’m not a Gael (unfortunately) but I spent some great times in Skye from the 70s onwards and it shaped my political views.

    I learned quite a bit of basic Gaelic then and when I returned to EK I suddenly recognised all these old local place-names and understood they were Gaelic. But I had been taught Gaelic was a dying Highland language and irrelevant to mainstream Scottish history. Obvious bollocks, which inspired 40-odd years of amateur research.

    It seems to me that you’ve been doing a lot for the cause for quite a while so I think you’ve earned a wee spell of private research. I’ve got three different lines running just now but since I’m retired it’s a lot easier for me to keep plates in the air. The Mitchell library is a great resource.

    We’re preparing for canvassing for the May elections here and your WoS catch-ups are great refreshers for the usual doorstep “discussions”. I hate canvassing but feel compelled to do it: so many numpties, so little time, and all the time having to be polite and constructive.

    I have to bite my tongue and smile sweetly, thinking of a reply when I hear the usual, “I hate that Alick Sammin/Sturgeon”; “there’s nae ile left”; “passport tae visit ma wean in Brighton.”

    I shouldn’t really be doing it at my age but feel we’re on the edge of victory and so I can’t give up.

    I’m sure many here appreciate your efforts.

    All the best.

  273. Scott says:

    Has anyone seen this reported in any MSM and if not why.

  274. carjamtic says:

    Brexit and Trump prove that, in this game we call life, even the most unexpected of things, can happen, just not normally with such devastating consequences and as its politics and as itโ€™s Scotland, here come the UKOK Fokkerโ€™s and their political deniers (akin to old age creeping up on you, although, the reality is there in front of you, staring back in the mirror and even though the body is starting to fail, to slow down and even though the mind sometimes starts to wander, it is usually in denial).

    Yes, the Fokkerโ€™s May delude themselves, Yes they May even marry a young beauty queen, Yes they May melt down an old vinyl L.P. stick it on their head and pretend (to themselves) that people wonโ€™t notice.

    Yes, they May still have all their โ€˜cash in the atticโ€™, Yes they May, just about manage to adjust the plastic syrup and have a piss each morning without any assistance, Yes they May, have their โ€˜snowy whiteโ€™* dental implants regularly serviced, Yes they can have their jellied eels and marmite sandwiches served to them on a silver platter by a Hollywood goddessโ€ฆ but the harsh reality isโ€ฆ. they cannot manage the stairsโ€ฆ.Yes, life can be a bleach.

    Time waits for No Fokker, politically Scotland is about to be reborn and no, itโ€™s not the same old, same old, itโ€™s something good, something new and itโ€™s somewhere safe.
    All we are waiting for now is the due date; the brilliant, dedicated workers, in the new hospital are waiting, the people on the bridge are waiting, the baby box is prepared and weโ€™re ready.

    In the hospital theatre, a โ€˜cascade pressureโ€™ environment has been set up, this means that the theatre is โ€˜positively pressuredโ€™ to the surrounding hospital corridors etc. (this prevents any germs or bacteria etc. from entering the theatre, i.e. when any the doors open, the air blows outwards and nothing bad comes in) likewise the public corridors, the service areas etc. are positively pressurised to the outside atmosphere.
    There is the important โ€˜dirty roomโ€™, which is set to a โ€˜negative pressureโ€™ relative to the theatre; this is where all the biohazards, bloody, contaminated things go, this room is vital to maintain a germ free environment for the patients and the staff.

    And so back to the Fokkerโ€™s, their sole mission is to remove the positive environment, to allow the spread of their neo-conservatism (bacteria), to contaminate the public and to maintain the โ€˜cash in the atticโ€™ policies of a failed, bygone empire.

    So focused are they on this task in Scotland, they ignore Brexit, ignore whatโ€™s going on across the pond, they think that like their plastic syrup, we might not notice it, aye right, an ill wind that blows them No good.

    In Scotland we also have a requirement for a political โ€˜dirty roomโ€™, a place, where propaganda, lies, half truths are sent ,to prevent from spreading, where they are made safe by application of some truth and verified facts, where toxic political shit gets cleaned up and โ€˜baggedโ€™ for disposal.

    This wasnโ€™t intended to be a โ€˜thank youโ€™ or a tribute to the Rev. at the outset, but thatโ€™s how things go sometimes (mind wandering ?)And anyways itโ€™s what I genuinely thinkโ€ฆmmmnnnโ€ฆf…Itโ€ฆ post it and be damned (*oh, โ€˜and one more thingโ€™, not thee โ€˜snowy whiteโ€™ of the โ€˜midnight bluesโ€™)

  275. DerekM says:

    Hmmm all quite on the western front,hey yoons this one is for you.

  276. Michael McCabe says:

    @ carjamtic 3:16pm Loved your post. Nice song too.

  277. yesindyref2 says:

    Sheesh, another bloody good posting by pool9.

    I hope the Rev comes up with a new thread quickly so as to leave that one at or near the end of the thread.

  278. carjamtic says:

    ‘Damn you’ Michael.

    A much better vid.


  279. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’sone to mark the day that BLiS___d announce their future direction, placing Yoonionism ahead of achieving social justice in Scotland, it must be obvious to all sane observers that BLiS____d expect Scots to simply whistle for their human rights to be respected, especially their “Right to Development”. Still, nothing like flogging a dead horse in the furtherance of progress, when your principle aim is maintaining the status quo of colonial domination from London.

    Evanescence + Thomas the Tank – Chug Me to Life |

  280. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not as scrambled as that last post, which isn’t in code, btw. An itchy trigger finger, a change of mind and not paying attention, I’m afraid. Hope the sentiment is still apparent.

    BLiS____d, the steam locomotives of Scotland’s 21st century politics. Not fitted to contemporary needs and well past their ideological usefulness. A wasted vote for the progressively minded, frankly.

  281. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. Today’s announcement is the confirmation of very specific ideological barriers to inclusion within BLiS___d, who no longer appear to provide space for those who are not of a Yoon persuasion. That’s a pity. ๐Ÿ™‚

  282. CameronB Brodie says:

    Social justice demands inclusion and is built on the respect of universal human rights. BLiS___d have just announced they are a tool of colonialism in the 21s century.

    Please, put the master’s tools down, those who haven’t already.

    โ€œThe right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.โ€ (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    โ€œThe human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.โ€ (Article 1.2)

    Asian Dub Foundation – The Judgement

  283. Stoker says:

    Atomic Kitten – Whole Again

    The Corrs – Breathless

    Sugababes – Push The Button

    Berri – The Sunshine After The Rain (1994 Eurodance)

  284. Stoker says:

    This first one has got me hooked, mesmerising! ๐Ÿ™‚

    Traveller girl singing

    Irish Traveller Girl Singing (First song 28-seconds in)

    Nikita – Hillbilly Girl With The Blues

  285. Stoker says:

    2 Unlimited – No Limit (1993)

    Chicane – Saltwater (Original)

    Faithless – Insomnia

  286. Chick McGregor says:

    Bearing in mind your gripe about no replies, I scrolled up to your last message on Global warming (even if you ignored mine ;))

    What you summarize is an accurate depiction of what is probably the current scientific consensus. I would only add that the salination pump theory, i.e. the driving mechanism for the Atlantic Conveyer, is not the only process which produces higher than latitude expectation temperatures for the British Isles.

    There is also the phenomenum of prevailingly South Westerly storm systems which exists. These are driven by Coriolis Forces due to the Earth’s rotation and are not cyclical (long term time) in nature.

    And because for the British Isles, these arrive unfettered by terrain (i.e across the Atlantic) their warming effect is significantly greater than would be the case for the similar latitude regions you cited, e.g. Hudson’s Bay because they are not subject to the same intervening terrain effects.

  287. Chick McGregor says:

    PS I’m sure I put @BDTT at the start of that last post but possibly another senior moment.

  288. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Chick McGregor.

    I didn’t consciously ignore your post so apologies for that.

    In the meantime, you may find exploring this site at the Internet Archive of interest. here’s one page:-

    The home page is at:-*/

    You can explore the archived captures by hovering over the captures at the top of the page.


    Hi Stoker.

    RE: “No Limits”. I prefer the Scottish version… “Hey Donald – where’s ma lager?”

  289. Stoker says:


    Now, do i thank you or curse you. Never heard that before but guess what i’ve been hoovering to. Can’t get it out of my head. ๐Ÿ˜€

  290. Stoker says:

    Beeb Watch

    On Monday 6 Feb 2017 the following programme aired on BBC2 at 8:30pm and was billed as ‘News and Factual’.

    REVEALED: Britain’s Mental Health Crisis – Panorama
    “Investigation into the state of NHS mental health services, revealing new figures showing a shocking rise in unexpected deaths. Contains some upsetting scenes.”

    Trouble is, this programme had absolutely nothing to do with Scotland, Wales, nor even Northern Ireland. The full 30-minutes was about the English NHS failures, and to be more precise most of the programme focused on the Norfolk & Suffolk Trust.

    Anyone reading that misleading synopsis but failing to watch the programme will once again have had the impression planted in their heads that all 4 of Britain’s Health Authorities are failing.

    Throughout the programme they frequently referred to “the country” when they really should have stated ‘England’ and twice during the programme they stated “across the UK” when referring to the figure for cuts in beds and when referring to “rough sleepers” (aka homeless people).

    The programme is to be repeated early Friday (10th) morning at 0:15am to 0:45am on BBC2 for anyone wanting to give it a more thorough going over.
    Heads Up!
    Anyone wanting to analyse the following? Here are the details:

    Thursday 09/02/17 on BBC2 at 9pm.
    After Brexit: The Battle for Europe
    “As Britain prepares to begin withdrawing from the EU, the BBC’s Europe editor Katya Adler asks whether the Union can survive facing the biggest challenge in its 60-year history.”

  291. Tinto Chiel says:

    It’s everywhere, though, Stoker. heard someone prattling on about “Tudor Britain” on Pravdasound 4 the other day. You don’t have to be Robert Peffers to start taking a flakie at that sort of sharn.

    I dedicate the following to all hard-core Unionists this May:

    That young lady has excellent technique, btw.

  292. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Stoker.

    I used to buy that sort of $h!t coz I was a divvil as a dj. I played it as well… Mixing/segueing with the original, kinda like this one – another to do your hoovering to:-

  293. yesindyref2 says:

    Fight fire with fire. A poster in the Herald quoted the Sunday Post poll about wanting Indy Ref 2, to me “83% Yes. 17% No” so I sneaked in a reply about that Courier Poll which was at “59.3% Yes, 40.7% No”.

    I just have this feeling in my watter that the next 2 weeks could, could, see a big change.


    Doing my head in, failed for once. I wanted a different one, not Hendrix, not Doors, it starts “Fire, (da da)”

    Help me!

  294. yesindyref2 says:

    Thanks be to .. my wife woke up and found it

    That’s been doing my crunchie

  295. Michael McCabe says:

    @yesindyref2 is this what you meant ?

  296. Michael McCabe says:

    @ yesindyref2 Paula Rose will not be happy with all this fire in off topic ? We better Move it.

  297. yesindyref2 says:

    Thanks Michael, I was hoping you’d be along. Yes, it was number 2. Love number 3, brings back memories!

    Here’s one for after Independence

    Oh, whoops. Oh well, it’s all for a good cause.

  298. Michael McCabe says:

    Independence. that’s why I am here.

  299. CameronB Brodie says:

    So the SNP are the “metropolitan elite”, Theresa May chereshis the momory of Sir. Nicholas Winton and Kez thinks it possible to accommodate two mutually exclusive constitutional states at the same time.

    Structural violence is sustained through symbolic violence. Misrepresentation and the re-writing of history, such as the above, has a negative “negritude quotient” and can be expected to lead to exclusion and exploitation. A state of internal colonisation, frankly.

    Asian Dub Foundation – Memory War

  300. Stoker says:

    Brian ๐Ÿ˜€

    Yes, indeed! Sounds as though Radio-4 have been discussing
    “British History’s Biggest Fibs with Lucy Worsley”

    It’s a 3-parter on the Beeb and it looks as though they’ve
    been discussing part-1. I vaguely remember reading the synopsis
    about that one and it stated something along the lines of:

    Lucy takes a look at our love affair with our favourite monarchical dynasty, the Tudors….

    It was the use of the royal ‘our’ that grabbed my attention
    because all i can remember from the old days is Tudor Crisps.
    MMmmmmm! Playtime was brilliant! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  301. Tinto Chiel says:

    Yes, Stoker, playtime was brilliant: two Gypsy Creams or Royal Scot biscuits for 1d. But they put the milk crates too close to the radiators and it put me off milk for life.

    CameronB Brodie: haven’t given up on Freire. Back on the interweb thingy now and will read between bouts of painting/wallpaper stripping.

  302. Tinto Chiel says:

    Perhaps the only Tudors anyone here cares about, on reflection. Anyone remember this?

    Off to do a bit of stripping.

  303. Nana says:

    Alex Salmond on the ball!

    If you are reading Smallaxe, hoping you are feeling ok.

  304. Stoker says:

    WOS Archives for June 2013

    An exile’s lament (Dedicated to all our exiles ๐Ÿ™‚ )

    Delayed transmission

    Health and efficiency

  305. Stoker says:

    WOS Archives for June 2013

    Shoppers’ paradise

    As good as it gets

  306. Tinto Chiel says:

    Apologies for appearance of cut-up Butcher’s Apron in above Tenpole Tudor video.

    They’re everywhere, ah tell ye, everywhere!

    Watch the skies!


  307. Smallaxe says:

    Just chillin’ Nana, Just chillin’ ๐Ÿ™‚

    Peace Always xx

  308. Nana says:


    Good for you.

    A few sweary words but a good laugh

  309. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: the British Army on Acid! we’ve got them beat!

    Peace Always, to All of you on O/T

  310. Nana says:


    Oh deary me, I’m literally in stitches. Gawd where can I can buy this water?

    It’s true what they say Billy, laughter is the best medicine.

  311. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Water?

    I know a guy……..******* ๐Ÿ™‚

    Peace and Love to You and Yours Nana

    Billy xx

    Now get back to what YOU do best!

  312. Survivor of 2016 says:

    “Gawd where can I can buy this water?”

    Funny, you’re not the first one to ask… ๐Ÿ˜‰

  313. Stoker says:

    Smallaxe at 7:05 pm:

    ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€ Thanks! And to you! ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€

  314. Smallaxe says:


    My heart is in my words
    :Boss ๐Ÿ™‚

    Peace Always

  315. yesindyref2 says:

    Nope, didn’t get it. Not rejected or anything on my server either. Never mind, I contacted you ๐Ÿ™‚

  316. Thepnr says:

    Hi all, here’s one that I (unbelievably) don’t believe has been played on Off Topic before. Very big hit in the Eighties by two of the biggest stars.

    Must have been played? Then I must have missed it.

    Believe me you have not seen this here before but I know you will enjoy ๐Ÿ™‚

  317. Thepnr says:

    I hope you may have watched the last one because it might have put you in the mood for this one which has been played before here.

    I’ll tell you this I’m getting in the mood again for one more go.

  318. yesindyref2 says:

    Lovely, thepnr, the second brought a wee tear, they’ve been having a hard time in Spain. It’s like the Full Monty but different. Jeezo I’m emotional this week, it’s like getting there walking on eggshells though, no fist-pumping, no “in your face” in case it goes backwards, just stay calm and confident. Cobblers. Lenny’s right, I need a break (and get on with work!)

    But meanwhile though it’s been played loads I love the buildup.

  319. Thepnr says:


    Slowly. Steadily, no fist pumping necessary.

    I feel like you describe often, walking on eggshells. But no, I walk not on eggshells but the shoulders of giants ๐Ÿ™‚

    I have a wee sleep once in a while then I’m me again.

  320. yesindyref2 says:

    Sleep sounds good, I’m off, having got some work done at last. Back in my stride. Had a good browse btl, and an interesting new player on the H, not one I could win against I think, I’ll settle for draws, but a poster there, she’s got the hang of him – has had to fend off both sides at times. Ho hum. Two or three moving over, then moving back, a surprise or two. I don’t think there’s any such thing as a hard NO, just people with opinions and some trolls. There’ll be a few new faces now it’s hotting up.

  321. Nana says:


    Love it, thanks for that video. The Rev W E Free what a character.

  322. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Continuing the Tudor theme…

  323. Stoker says:

    WOW, Brian, a trip right down memory lane for me there!
    The good old days of fog, smog and living in the bog (rolls eyes).

  324. Thepnr says:

    Haha Brian, I remember that.

    When I was 14 or so I used to deliver milk around Kirkton and Mill O Mains in one of the old DPM milk floats, I got the job by going down to their depot in Mains Road opposite Dens Park at 05:00 in the morning and just asking each driver as he left the depot did he need a milkboy and one took me on.

    Anyway, regarding your post. I’d been working on the milk for a few months and one of our delivery’s was the Multis at Claverhouse. The lift wasn’t working this day and I climbed to the top with a full crate of milk then delivered them at each level on the way down.

    Took about 10 minutes instead of the normal 5 minutes.

    Got back in the float with the empty crate and the driver says “where the fuck have you been” LOL.

    Best thing though was collecting the milk money dodr to door on a Friday night. Tips always were more than your wages and very welcome. The first time I collected money I was worried about being mugged before I got to the drivers house to hand it over. So did what we always did in those days and hid down my sock.

    I got to his house and he asked for the milkbook and the money, I’d lost the money. Nah no really just forgot it was hidden in my sock. My memory then was as bad as it is now ๐Ÿ™‚

  325. Stoker says:

    Sorry, folks, my mistake! The links posted at the top of tonight’s selection (containing the article “One down”) should be the 5th group of links posted tonight. It should be at the bottom of the pile. A lack of concentration on my part. ๐Ÿ™

  326. Thepnr says:


    Your memory is obviously as bad as mine ๐Ÿ™‚

  327. Stoker says:

    Naw, Alex, that titles mine, hands off! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  328. Tinto Chiel says:

    Hi, Socrates.

    Jimmy B played for our cricket team, the mighty Thornliebank CC out of Stanalane Park by Rouken Glen. Lost touch ages ago.

    I met Willie Hunter and his charming wife about two years ago in the John Lewis cafeteria in Glasgow. Charming man, who now works with Alzheimer victims (sadly, like Pat Quinn) and writes poetry for charity. Still sharp as a tack. I remember he told me it was the players who devised the tactics for games: Mr A. picked the team but they did the fine tuning.

    Sadly, I was too young to be allowed to go to Ibrox for the 5-2 game. Strangely, the BBC footage seems to have disappeared completely (!).

    One of my earliest memories was a cup replay at Fir Park between MFC and the magisterial Dundee FC, a night game under flood lights. I think it was maybe 1963/4? I could hardly see anything in the throng but ‘Well got beat 2-4 by a great Dark Blues team.

    It all seems so long ago now, but great memories.

    My earliest recollection of the Killie team (I suspect your Killie affiliations) was a cup tie at Douglas Park about 1967. Tommy McLean was on the wing, and Jackie McInally inside. I was fascinated as a kid by Tommy’s tiny size and Jackie’s breenging juggernaut runs. In the stand behind us I remember my father pointing out Jimmy Brownlie in his bowler hat, Scotland’s goalie in the early years of the 20th century. Although a Lanarkshire boy, he played for Dundee. I treasure such a link with the early days of professional football.

    Better go now before Paula Rose gives me a hard time for all this football stuff.

    She has lovely ankles, btw.

  329. Michael McCabe says:

    Love the Rawness in this girls Voice.

  330. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Thought I would share this observation with yooz.

    A number of years ago, I set up an email address, purely for logging into sites that needed an email address, like The Herald and Linkdn.

    Things were pretty quiet, received email-wise, until a couple of years ago then, for some reason, I started receiving emails from the UK Labour Party – asking for donations and so on. I usually read them then delete.

    Strange thing this week…
    The Tories have started emailing the same address with requests for donations! Here’s a paste from the second one I received today.

    Hi B——-,

    Tomorrow at midday Iโ€™ll be setting the priorities for the rest of our by-election campaigns in Stoke and Copeland.

    We have two excellent candidates in Jack Brereton and Trudy Harrison. They back the Prime Ministerโ€™s plan to build a better Britain and deliver a country that works for everyone.

    There are hundreds of volunteers lined up to deliver our message to the people of Copeland and Stoke โ€“ but we need your support.

    Donating ยฃ20 today will put leaflets, letters and phones in the hands of those volunteers.

    Thanks for your help,


    Darren Mott OBE
    Director of Campaigning and Chief Agent

    Ps: Make sure you donate before midday so we can have the best chance to win!

    Therefore, it would appear that the UK Labour Party have been farming either The Herald’s database or Linkdn for a wee while – and the Tories have decided that it could work for them too!

    My son (again) flagged up this video. A wee song about the Daily Heil…

  331. Roughian says:

    I was watching Only Connect tonight and one the links was to do with land borders. They came up with an answer that UK had only 1 land border. Can someone advise me I thought UK had at least 2 if not 3.
    Mainland Scot/Eng & Wales/Eng = 2 if Norn Irnd in UK then their land border with Eire = 3.
    Correct me if I’m wrong.

  332. Paula Rose says:

    The first time ever I met you…

  333. Macart says:

    Here’s one for folk weary of main thread disruption.

    Me? I’m a fan of the Dionne school of diplomacy. ๐Ÿ™‚

  334. Smallaxe says:

    Ian Brother:

    No words, just a likkle song.

    FOR NOW!

    Peace Always Brother

  335. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Smallaxe –

    Cheers for the ode – soo-perb stuff!

    I’ve not been contributing much to main threads, so it’s just a toty personal protest, nothing more. No big deal, and doesn’t stop me coming here, unless the bastard shows up here too!

    What’s really getting to me is that he’s maintaining this sinister campaign against the elderly, the English and the ‘middle-class’ – as Rev has repeatedly pointed out, less than 1% of WOS readers ever comment btl, so we cannot possibly know who is being influenced by ‘Rock’s diplomatically-worded incitement. A lot of folk are edgy as it is, and the yooners have been cranking up the talk of violence, projecting it as fear of Cybernats etc when we know it’s only ever come from them. That could change though, and it only takes one angry dude to lash out at an ‘elderly English middle-class’ punter and that’ll be endless red-top-fodder for the BTUKOKers. I don’t see ‘Rock’ as an annoyance who can just be ignored, scrolled-past, or tolerated, and he doesn’t ‘do’ debate of any kind. He’s a malevolent presence on this site, period.

    Anyway, enough of my belly-aching – really great to see you back posting, on top form too, and I hope you’re as well as can be. More power to you and yours, as aye.

    ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ˜‰

  336. Smallaxe says:


    Thanks for replying so soon, I had a feeling that you were not far away, I completely agree with you regarding the violence that these people can cause, their violence I can and as you know (I think) deal with, I share your own fear that maybe some of our younger people will respond in kind and go further than self-defence, as you say the red tops would be orgasmic if that were to happen which is one of the reasons that I always end my posts as I do.

    Keep here on O/T for now and gather yourself, why do you think that I am mostly to be found here, from here, we can look across at the M/T and decide if we want to jump into a decent debate (or not). Have a look back across at yesterday’s thread, last time I looked someone was complaining about the EU.FFS! Whether that’s an attempt at more disruption or not matters not a jot to me, the or out can be debated at a later time. Without our Independence every other point is moot.

    NOW! how do we get Yesindyref2 back?

    Peace and Love Brother Ian, stick around. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  337. Macart says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    You’re a good man Ian and I doubt very much the disruption has gone unnoticed. Unless the abuse becomes personal from visitors I reckon the Rev will allow them to continue.

    He set out his stall on visitors and behaviour and attempts to maintain an open forum. I suspect though that he’d pounce the instant they stepped out of bounds and might just be waiting for just such a step. Doesn’t strike me as the forgiving or forgetting type (looks nervously over shoulder) and no writer enjoys having their work disrupted or spoiled.

    I’ve always been a big fan of scrolling past and filtering out, even when the intrusion warrants a response and you have a choice response in mind (cough). I found that after a while the filtering becomes second nature and the intrusions become background noise. A few posts from visitors is normally all it takes to get a feel for their tack. Now? I genuinely pay no heed to those whose manner or viewpoint I find disagreeable or distasteful. I see a name I associate with bad juju and the post remains unread. I’m already half a thread away looking for something interesting.

    That’s the beauty of reading. You pick the books and subject matter you feel attracted to. No one can force you to read a shite novel (or post) if you don’t want to.

    This site I reckon sees visitors in six figures by the month. Most simply read and absorb. They know who they enjoy reading and seeing on site. They know who to look for and who to avoid. Names that make them smile, or names they know they can count on for pertinent points or insight. Names they can just have a chinwag with. They might never post themselves, but they know a comfortable face when they see one as it were. ๐Ÿ™‚

  338. Smallaxe says:

    No politics, No news, just some electric Blues

    Peace Always

  339. Liz g says:

    Macart @ 1.20
    Can see what you are saying about regular users.
    But I would not tell people to jump in to Wings and take a look because it’s different,any more.

    Normally I would tell people, it’s not the below the lines bitchfest that’s common on other sites,this is real conversation on a wide range of subjects, but not for a few months now!

    It’s regularly becoming a snark competition and the good stuff is getting lost.
    Like others I switched off to the main thread,and would point out that it has been sometime since anyone commented on Wing’s being addictive, you’re not loosing hour’s caught up in conversation that covers a wide range of subjects.
    Your mainly scrolling past Rock/Dave and their choosen gripe of the day.
    So aye regular reader’s will know who to blank,but new readers whither they stay or go won’t see Wings as any different!
    And it was.

  340. Chick McGregor says:


    Just caught up on the troll row.

    As per my usual sod’s law timing, I ‘replied’ to Rock, if not for the first time ever, for such a long time ago that I cannot remember when.

    I say ‘replied’ but it was really just to remake the point that there are moves in the EU which might just possibly lead to Scots retaining an EU passport and citizenship even if we are still in the UK.

    I posted having only looked at a couple of other posts, other wise I wouldn’t have.

    Sorry guys.

  341. Thepnr says:

    It becomes impossible for me not to engage with trolls on Wings when others do. I read their posts and see that they are not good for Wings.

    Yesterday’s thread though was the worst disruption I’ve even seen in more than 4 years of reading and posting on Wings. Every 10 minutes we had a post from Rock slagging someone off and then he had his backup team.

    This Reluctant Nationalist had never posted once before to my knowledge yet has the gall to call those that oppose Rock’s views on the old, the English, the National an “histrionic hivemind”.

    Iโ€™m a newcomer and he doesnae bother me one bit, even though I might not agree with him. The histrionic hivemind, on the other handโ€ฆ

    I’m part of the “histrionic hivemind” so too is Ian Brotherhood, in fact anyone that disagrees with Rock is also part this hive.

    If that doesn’t flag up a warning sign then nothing will.

    If everyone ignored them then I too would, I do for the most part but yesterday was just going to far.

  342. Thepnr says:


    I did have the support of the REV to ban one poster on Wings many moons ago now before the referendum. He threatened to “hunt me down and cut me into pieces” if I called him a troll again.

    I did call him a troll again and he never bothered to “hunt me down”.

  343. Macart says:

    Take heart Liz.

    The site can be what the regular readers want it to be. It can be as welcoming, friendly and anarchic as only wingers can make it.

    The readers decide. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  344. Nana says:

    I don’t have time to read every post and had no idea Reluctant nationalist is considered suspect. I obviously missed earlier confrontations.

    He/she responded to one of my links this morning so I engaged and we had a very civil conversation. I did have a wee frown on noting his handle and thought he may be like Henry Mcleish, sat on the fence and needing a wee push.

    So long as people are civil to me I will continue to welcome them here.

  345. Macart says:


    Different stokes for different folks. ๐Ÿ™‚

    You care, as does Ian, for how the site works and feels. You’re protective of the wings community and that’s good to know. Some visitors are going to be the determined sort for sure and would test the patience of a saint.

    When it gets bad, and that can be quite often these days, just don’t let the disruptive elements get you down. I’m sure I’m not the only one who appreciates the efforts of the long time wingers in trying to keep threads on track.

    You’re all valued and needed as far as I’m concerned.

  346. Smallaxe says:

    Chick McGregor:

    Chic, you have absolutely no reason to apologise to anyone, when I looked at the main thread this morning it took me a while to comprehend what was happening and as you may have noticed I immediately launched one of my daft rhymes at Rock accusing him of being a troll.

    I really don’t know whether he/she is or isn’t but Rock could give lessons on trolling, so, please My Friend don’t feel bad about engaging with him/her or I will feel as if I have to apologise also.I don’t think any apologies are necessary if it walks like a duck etc.

    Peace Always My Friend

  347. Clapper57 says:

    @ Macart

    “I see a name I associate with bad juju and the post remains unread. Iโ€™m already half a thread away looking for something interesting”.

    Macart , I am the same I now NEVER read Sensible Dave’s posts as he/she is so irritating, biased , condescending , smug and offensive to other posters…..never really read Rock’s posts so cannot comment on him.

    I do sometimes swear in my posts…Know I should not…. but I can get rabid sometimes and really frustrated with how things are….hence sometimes I get carried away….that probably puts people off reading mine….hey ho not bothered as gets it off my chest …..better oot than in.

    I dip in and out of WOS but if there is an ongoing spat that deflects from topic then I go onto another website as cannot be arsed…oops sorry language….with constant saga that becomes boring and repetitive.

    Only consolation is that if Trolls take time and trouble to post on here they obviously are afraid Indy real possibility or else why would they even bother ?……oh I know….wind up merchants aka TROLLS.

  348. Chick McGregor says:


    Thanks for that. I often get caught out by not reading previous posts enough.

    Good to see you firing on all cylinders.

  349. Smallaxe says:

    How do all of you people type so quick? Every time I refresh there is another two or three posts.

    Nana, K1 and I had a word with Reluctant Nationalist and the ball is still up in the air on that matter, in saying that, “hivemind” is something that I have never seen anyone but a troll using but as they say “It will all come out in the wash”.

    Peace and Love to All of you, My Friends

  350. Macart says:


    I may have been prone to the odd swerry wurded rant or two masel’. ๐Ÿ™‚

    We’re only human.

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