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Quoted for truth #23

Posted on July 12, 2013 by

131 to “Quoted for truth #23”

  1. DanTDog
    Ignored
    says:

    Too…depressingly…true, Rev…I despair at the thought. 🙁

  2. alasdair
    Ignored
    says:

    True.

    But in the event of a ‘NO’ vote, my priority will be getting on a boat and leaving … if it’s an overwhelming ‘NO’, I might just swim for it :-/

  3. The Man in the Jar
    Ignored
    says:

    Question 1 answer Yes or No. Do you believe that a country should run its own affairs?
    Question 2 answer Yes or No. Do you believe that Scotland is a country?
    I am going for a Chinese accent then I can quote Chairman Mao regarding change..…wonder who that is at the door? 😉

  4. Doug Daniel
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t do it Stu, Welsh accents can go horribly wrong. Leave that to actual Welsh folk.
     
    Surely you’ve lived in Bath long enough to put on a convincing West Country accent?

  5. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye, as a pretend nation, we would certainly become a global laughing stock around the world if the norons win next year. In 1979, despite a badly organized YES campaign, and the full weight of the establishment and MSM against it, a majority of scots still voted in favour of devolution. This gives me hope.

  6. Anne (@annewitha_e)
    Ignored
    says:

    Impossible to contemplate.

  7. Juteman
    Ignored
    says:

    Do No voters actually understand that they are saying to the world that Scotland isn’t a real country?
    Really, do they understand what they are saying, or has the Westminster/BBC brainwashing went that deep?

  8. Adrian B
    Ignored
    says:

    A ‘Yes’ vote will happen, but we do all need to keep working at it to ensure that the overwhelming majority vote in favour. No time for slacking – every opportunity needs to be used to convince friends family, neighbours, work colleges and those in other streets that their future and the future of the young ones is secure by making our own decisions for us right here in Scotland for the benefit of the people of Scotland.

  9. Richie
    Ignored
    says:

    Learning a foreign language might be more useful.

  10. Yesitis
    Ignored
    says:

    I`m sure a lot of us have noticed the rise of the strangely confident Scottish Tory these last few months. I find it Sickening.
    Of course, with Labour bedfellows (who knew?) and a complicit media, it seems our Tory friends have a strange confidence about their future in a very British Scotland. To be blunt, they don`t have to do much, as the unionist media is their weapon and their armour. Sickening.
     
    When I think of those Scottish Tories punching the air in celebration of the defeat of the ‘rebellious separatists’, and a grinning Sally Magnusson announcing “Scotland has voted No to independence” on a red, white and blue themed BBC news report, my skin crawls.
     
    A No vote is unthinkable. Unthinkable. I entertained the thought as long as it took to type this out.
    I`m away for a shower.

  11. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Doug Daniel-
     
    ‘Welsh accents can go horribly wrong.’
     
    Kin right. And even genuine Welsh accents can cause probs.
     
    An ex in-law was (I suppose still is) Welsh. She called unexpectedly once (on the phone) mumbling rubbish. I thought it was an Indian call-centre and hung-up.

  12. Bunter
    Ignored
    says:

    If we deliver a NO vote and decide we don’t want to be a normal country then we can’t expect others to see us as such. There will be repercussions from our self esteem, reputation and standing in the world to less important things such as representation on world sporting bodies. I for one won’t be at Hampden ever again singing flower of Scotland or anything else for that matter. On a happier note the state broadcaster report further falling sales of newspaper circulations.

  13. Andy-B
    Ignored
    says:

    I suppose this proves that other countries around Europe are watching with interest, to see if Scotland has developed a “Backbone” yet..or whether, we’re quite content, being toldwhat to do and when to do it….Oh the infamy, if we vote no
     
    Taking a holiday in Europe will become a tedious affair, especially when you reveal you’re from Scotland….after a few chuckle from the bystanders, you’ll slink away to you’re hotel room, to read “War & Peace” for the next 14 days….pretend to be Irish to the hotel staff, and protest loudly that you have a contagious illness, and that food should be left outside the hotel room..for the duration of your stay.

  14. Bill C
    Ignored
    says:

    The fact that Hugh Kerr openly admits that other Northern Europeans are mystified why Scotland would not want to run its own affairs, begs the question: What makes the man tick? He is presumably an intelligent enough type of fellow and as such, he must surely be asking himself the same questions as the folk he met in  Denmark were asking him. It is obvious that Scottish Labour politicians know that independence is normality, hence their only reason for rejecting self determination must be self interest.  My instincts are telling me that more and more Scots are asking the same questions as Mr Kerr’s Danish friends. At least I hope that’s what they are telling me!

  15. Stevie
    Ignored
    says:

    I must admit, it will be deathly embarrassing in the immediate and long long long long term. One will be ashamed till the curtains are drawn.
     

  16. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @Bill C
     
    Hugh Kerr supports independence.  He was thrown out of Labour by Blair and co.  He was in the SSP, pretty sure he is a member of the SNP now.

  17. molly
    Ignored
    says:

    My thoughts too Bill C,surely if Mr Kerr reads his letter back the contradictory view held by him  and hisParty must leap out at him. It reminds me of an incident a few years ago. A colleague made a point of telling me ,her local Post Office was closing. All the local’ Cooncillors’ were there to show support against it closing (even the Tory) all except the Labour one. “Thing is ,you’ll still vote for him ,won’t you ?” Sheepishly she agreed. Someone explain it to me please 

  18. Seanair
    Ignored
    says:

    So far as I know Hugh Kerr WAS a Labour MEP, but is no longer of that persuasion so he is not responsible for the current Labour attitude.
     

  19. Atypical_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    Not embarrassing at all. Not one jot. Not getting what we want is part of life and I’m sure in the unlikely case that it’s a no, fair do’s, try again. It ain’t killin’ us is it?

    Fight or flight? Too many nights at the x-box.

  20. molly
    Ignored
    says:

    Apologies  to Mr Kerr if I wrongly assumed he was still a Labour member .

  21. Richard McHarg
    Ignored
    says:

    Hugh Kerr is a member of the SSP, as far as I know, and has been for many years.

  22. Juteman
    Ignored
    says:

    I don’t think I could go abroad on holiday again if it was a No.
    How would you answer if folk asked where you were from? Tell the truth and suffer ridicule, or give in and admit you are northern English?

  23. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    Re. SLabour unionists. Do they see themselves as “Boxer” and do they really buy in to ‘four legs bad, two legs good’? Not sure which party Captain D represent, but I suppose Westminster parties are interchangeable nowadays. Let’s just say that he represents the Crown, twisting the truth to gain and maintain social and political control. Sounds like a latter day “Squealer” to me.
    http://www.george-orwell.org/Animal_Farm/index.html

  24. Hugh Kerr
    Ignored
    says:

    Just to confirm I was a Labour MEP until expelled by Blair for opposing his policies was first chair and press officer of the SSP and I am now in the SNP. Hugh Kerr

  25. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    P.S. All together now;
     
    “Beasts of England, beasts of Ireland,
    Beasts of every land and clime,
    Hearken well and spread my tidings
    Of the golden future time

    Soon and late the day is coming,
    Tyrant Man shall be o’erthrown,
    And the fruitful fields of England
    Shall be trod by beasts alone

    Rings shall vanish from our noses,
    And the harness from our back,
    Bit and spur shall rust forever,
    Cruel whips no more shall crack

    Riches more than mind can picture,
    Wheat and barley, oats and hay,
    Clover, beans, and mangel-wurzels
    Shall be ours upon that day

    Bright will shine the fields of England,
    Purer shall its waters be,
    Sweeter yet shall blow its breezes
    On the day that sets us free

    For that day we all must labour,
    Though we die before it break;
    Cows and horses, geese and turkeys,
    All must toil for freedom’s sake

    Beasts of England, beasts of Ireland,
    Beasts of every land and clime,
    Hearken well and spread my tidings
    Of the golden future time”.

  26. Atypical_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    Top drawer to the FM for his speech today. The Parcel o rogues have changed tack 300 years on – Scottish gold goes south and the rogues at better together are thrown a sausage for their obedience – good dogs.
     
    Talking of sausages, Alistair Darkling in Edinburgh yesterday has the might of the UK gov. behind him yet his speech is  a blackout, the FM travels into the sticks and gets three cameras tied into the feed with sound! A solid start and thorough explanation in peoples terms. Get in.
     

  27. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    Hugh Kerr is in the same sort of mould as Dennis Canavan, John McAllion, Jimmy Reid etc.  They were and are principled, respected left-wingers in Scotland.  Still at least SLAB have not missed them eh…

  28. Bill C
    Ignored
    says:

    mutley 79 – Well pointed out, (it’s the heat!).  I think the thrust of my post is still valid though. Labour and troughs, you know what I mean.

  29. Currywurst
    Ignored
    says:

    “if Scotland votes No in 2014 our main life priority is going to be developing a convincing Welsh or Irish accent. It’d just be far too embarrassing and depressing”
     
    Yes, of course. Pity the poor Bavarians and Texans who have this problem all the time.

  30. Marian
    Ignored
    says:

    Ref Bunter says comment above: if the majority of Scots vote NO they will have conceded that Scotland was subsumed and became part of Greater England in 1707 and our separate representation in world sport such as our soccer and rugby teams will be swept away and Scots will have to make do with a rare call up to a Great Britain team henceforth.

  31. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Currywurst
    Keep up mate. This is the 21st century, not the 19th.

  32. Alan MacD
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Currywurst
    Im fairly sure a few Texans are pushing for Succesion at the moment…….Polls range fae 20% to at least 50%. Or is it only important what happened 200 odd years ago?
     
    By the way, i used to have a half pizza crunch with ‘curry’ sauce for my lunch alot of the time at school from the local chippy, was banging wae loadsa vineger and was quite popular…….Whits the sausage version like, never had one?
     

  33. Alan MacD
    Ignored
    says:

    Im fecking starvin noo thinking aboot that.

  34. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    I travel a fair bit with work (oil & gas). From Norway to Saudi Arabia… ‘So Scotland is going to be independent?’ is always asked since May 2011. A no-brainer for them too, particularly as Britain doesn’t have the best global reputation, what with it continually sticking its nose pompously into other countries business and bombing people.

    Yes is of course always my answer. It’s the way these things almost invariably go.

  35. Angus McPhee
    Ignored
    says:

    seeing as we are  singing along.
    Number two in a series of apt tunes dragged up from the back of my mind.
    I know some of you might think it a beastly noise but stick it out to the end.

  36. Currywurst
    Ignored
    says:

    “Keep up mate. This is the 21st century, not the 19th.”
     
    Quite. So why do you want to reduce Scotland to our 18th century status?

  37. HoraceSaysYes
    Ignored
    says:

    This is basically what it comes down to, isn’t it? If you think we are a real country, then you’ll vote yes. If, not, then you’ll vote no.

    And I don’t know how I’d explain a no vote to friends from abroad, either. 🙁

  38. Inbhir Anainn
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Marian
     
    A point more or less reached by Dr. Robert McIntyre, the first Scottish National Party Member of the Westminster Parliament.
    “McIntyre later noted in the ‘Evening Citizen’ that 1688 was well before the ‘Treaty of Union’ and he also suggested that “If resolutions of the old English Parliament are binding to the Parliament now at Westminster, then it would appear that the present Parliament is merely a continuation of the old English Parliament and is not a united Parliament based on the Treaty”.
    http://iainthepict.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/dr-robert-mcintyre.html#links
     
     

  39. Currywurst
    Ignored
    says:

    “A no-brainer for them too, particularly as Britain doesn’t have the best global reputation”
     
    While we’re on subjective generalisations with no supporting evidence, on my travels I always find that people like me for being British and Scottish – although there are a few questions about whether I really like haggis, deep-fried chocolate and wearing a skirt.
    “Yes is of course always my answer. It’s the way these things almost invariably go.”
     
    Like Quebec?

  40. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    Quite. So why do you want to reduce Scotland to our 18th century status?
    Erm, Britain has been doing exactly this for most of the last century. Used to cover vast areas of the globe. Now just a wee island and a bit of the neighbouring one, much like it was at the time the union formed in, well, the early 18th century.
    Scotland becoming an independent nation again would just be completing the empirical rise and fall that Britain started. I think it appropriate that Scotland does its whole independence thing itself to tidy up the very last remnants of a failed, bygone empire. Empirical superstates are just so last century.

  41. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Currywurst
    Quite. So why do you want to reduce Scotland to our 18th century status?
     
    Another unsubstantiated claim. Have you not been following the debate, or are you simply an imperialist lapdog? I think we are all adults here, so best get it off your chest if you are. I’m sure you will feel better for it.
     
    P.S. I’m not a Communist. 🙂

  42. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    RE Quebec. That’s why I said ‘almost invariably’. You should really read posts CW.
    49.4% Yes; and that was with polls struggling to get 30% Y a year before.
    I reckon we can do a few % better at minimum. 
    Experts think so too.
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/252253/Scots-referendum-yes-10-times-more-likely-to-succeed
    Of the 46 referendums held worldwide since 1905, 42 have resulted in a new independent country being formed – with two of the remaining four “no” results later reversed.
    This means Quebec, which has had two votes on leaving Canada, is the only place in more than a century where an independence referendum has not ultimately resulted in separation.

  43. Shinty
    Ignored
    says:

     It’d just be far too embarrassing and depressing to constantly have to try to explain it to the rest of the world otherwise.

    Absolutely, just think about the most embarrassing thing that has happened in your life and treble it – no trips abroad for a few years at least.

    Just too awful to contemplate.
     

  44. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Currywurst
     
    ‘I always find that people like me for being British and Scottish…’
     
    There have been 65,680 comments on this site since it started.
     
    The one above must be a strong contender for ‘Top Ten’ status in various categories…
     
     

  45. Tris
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m starting to learn Norwegian so that in the event of a no vote I can go and live there. 
     
    I simply couldn’t stand to go on living in a Tory ruled, class ridden, war mongering, divided fur coat and no knickers society whose first priority seems to be remaining America’s go-for.
     
    The referendum has given me hope that one day soon I will be living in a modern, nordic style, democratic and egalitarian country. I simply couldn’t face Britain after all this hope.
     
    I will feel desperately sorry for people who are too old or too ill or too poor to make a move if we are stupid enough to vote to stay with the sinking ship.
     

  46. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘I always find that people like me for being British and Scottish…’
    British is such a British term. I only really hear it used in the UK. A bit in the states too. Never been asked if I’m British in Europe; normally it’s English (or american globally) which I correct to big smiles and a laugh at the little faux pas they know they’ve just made.
    Hardly surprising, as Scotland has existed as Scotland for the vast majority of European history. For most Europeans – at least the ones I’ve met (and my wife + extended family are French) – Scotland is a country within a mini union, as well, that’s exactly what it is.
     

  47. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    Hmmmm develop a new accent?
     
    Heh, I’ll give that a miss Rev, I’m rubbish at those. Besides win or lose no one here would have anything to feel ashamed about. 🙂
     
    Of course I’d be deeply saddened if Scotland voted to remain under the stewardship of Westminster, but I think all in all I could just about face looking in the mirror.

  48. Atypical_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    How on earth do you get a comment on the Herald? No matter how hard I try to stay fluffy…, 

  49. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Tris-
     
    Don’t get down about it. We are going to win this fucking thing, and we’ll do it in style.
     
    If you haven’t done so already, please listen to the last ten minutes of AS’s speech in Nigg today (the link is somewhere near the end of one of the previous threads.) Listen to him explaining why he’s so confident about the future.
     
    (Not saying there’s anything wrong with learning Norwegian!)

  50. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    @currywurst
    I always find that people like me for being British and Scottish
     
    People actually LIKE you?

  51. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m trying to imagine the slightly confused/’what the fuck are you on about?’ look on someone’s face, if, when asking ‘So, you are English?’ in e.g. Italy, you respond ‘No, I’m Scottish and British!’.
    So you are Scottish then?
    No, I’m Scottish and British!’
    Si, si, as you say…anyway, today’s speciale is…
    It’s a bit like someone insisting on saying they’re French and European! whenever they’re asked on travels.

  52. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    Are we on the verge of another ‘clearance’? What do they call it nowadays, ‘ethnic cleansing’?
     
    Seriously though, get a grip folks. If we get a No, and those that can leave, they will be effectively helping to consign Scotland to history. A No vote doesn’t mean the end of an idea, the aspiration to create a modern civil society. It just means it will take a little longer to achieve, and things will be a bit shittier until we manage to get over the line. I know that this contradicts what I said yesterday, about this possibly being our only chance before total disenfranchisement, but you have to have hope.
     
    Winners aren’t always the best, often they simply put more effort in. Vote Yes.

  53. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    @Cameron
     
    I’m too damned poor to move anywhere.
     
    So we’ll just have to win. 🙂

  54. Jiggsbro
    Ignored
    says:

    Are we on the verge of another ‘clearance’? What do they call it nowadays, ‘ethnic cleansing’?
     
    We are, but in London not Scotland. We can’t stop it, but voting ‘Yes’ at least changes it to “They are” rather than “We are”.

  55. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    Well, I won’t leave Scotland if there’s a “no” vote, but I might move to somewhere nobody knows me….like Orkney.  I was up there the other week and fell in love with it.  By the way, if one of you lot is the person who lives on the main street in Stromness and has the YES sticker in your window……..I know where you live!  Fair cheered me up.:-)

  56. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve been lucky enough to meet Neil Mackay, the Herald journalist who wrote the brilliant ‘War on Truth’ a few years ago.
     
    We briefly collaborated on a story-idea (which may yet happen) and had a few jars in the process. He told me about taking a good few beatings in his native Belfast (not in his role as a journalist, but a normal citizen) and he could’ve avoided most of them – reason he didn’t was because (and I’m paraphrasing here) ‘I’m not running away from anyone in my home town.’
     
    If Neil sees this comment, and it’s ‘wrong’, he’ll no doubt correct it, but I’m pretty sure that’s the jist of what he said, and it’s one worth remembering.
     
    Maybe some will feel like bolting in the highly unlikely event of a ‘No’ vote, but the vast bulk of us are going nowhere, and if ‘Better Together’ don’t kill our movement before next Sept?
     
    We’ll emerge even stronger.

  57. Jamie Arriere
    Ignored
    says:

    @Currywurst
     
    You mention Bavaria, Texas and Quebec – three states in a federal arrangement where they have more fiscal and economic controls than Scotland will ever be given.
     
    These are not on the ballot paper, therefore it has to be YES!

  58. The Man in the Jar
    Ignored
    says:

    @curywurst
    Empires rise and Empires fall. “It’s the way these things almost invariably go.”
    The death throws of the loathed British Empire and not before time.

  59. Currywurst
    Ignored
    says:

    “Of the 46 referendums held worldwide since 1905, 42 have resulted in a new independent country being formed – with two of the remaining four “no” results later reversed.
    This means Quebec, which has had two votes on leaving Canada, is the only place in more than a century where an independence referendum has not ultimately resulted in separation.”
     
    Er, you’ve typed some words and made them italic. I’m supposed to be convinced by this in some way?

  60. Currywurst
    Ignored
    says:

    scottish_skier says:
     
    Well, you just keep carrying on with the unsupported assertions about your “international experience”.

  61. Bill C
    Ignored
    says:

    Sorry guys I’m the Private Fraser on here, or so my friends and family tell me. What’s all this doom and gloom bull. We are in the driving seat and cruising to a comfortable YES majority. Read the runes:
    1. The latest polling courtesy of our beloved John Curtice makes for good reading. We are just under 40% and the dark side are just over 40% according to the Prof’s website “What Scotland Thinks”.
    2. The news on the streets backs up the Prof’s polling. Great reports from canvass returns and YES stalls up and down the country. There are also rumours that private polling is going our way, hence the reason for no public polls in recent weeks.
    3. The Herald has a number of YES or nearly YES correspondents and the Sunday Herald is now all but on board. Good grief the Rev even thinks the Daily Rag is about to jump ship!
    4. NO Scotland have become a laughing stock, with their scare a day stories. They are also riven with division, can’t decide what they are offering and are led by numpties.
    5. “Call me Dave” secretly wants rid of us and is now using the MOD to torpedo the NO Scotland mob
    6. Today our FM widely regarded as the best politician in these isles, if not Europe, launched Operation 5 Unions. An operation designed to go on the offensive and neutralise the scare bombs of NO Scotland.
    7. The NO vote is as soft as the proverbial, according to our very own Scottish Skier, who remains supremely confident of a YES vote. (hope that’s not a misrepresentation Skier?)
    So come on good people, no more talk of defeat and jumping ship, as a very wise fool once said “We are in this together”.
     

  62. Tris
    Ignored
    says:

    Ianbrotherood:
     
    Don’t worry friend, I’m not despairing. I’m pretty certain we will win, although I know that when it starts to look like we are going to, they will stop at nothing, and I reckon that means NOTHING, to stop us.
     
    Eck was, as usual, pretty inspirational, and I’ve read some of the stuff that Stephen Noon has been writing about the private polling of the Yes campaign, which is far far more sophisticated and accurate than anything that Yougov or ComRes can muster.
     
    I hedging bets with Norwegian… and in any case in an independent Scotland we will have many more links with Norway, and although I realise that they speak English better than most of us, it’s always a nice gesture to make an effort with someone else’s language. (I tried it in Iceland and was greeted with open arms everywhere I went! Icelanders rarely hear their language spoken with a foreign accent!)
     
    Thanks for taking the time to post the video of Alex… That was appreciated. Hope you have a good day campaigning tomorrow., and I bet your wallpaper table is just dandy! 🙂

  63. Braco
    Ignored
    says:

    I am coming home as soon as I can to campaign for a YES.
     
    If it’s NO (god forbid) I am not leaving again until we are independent.
     
    If it’s a NO then that’s when the real fight for the survival of our societal beliefs as a Nation will start in earnest. So I beg each of you who are considering leaving to not fall into the trap that I and many others before me have fallen into by leaving Scotland in search of a better, freer life and in the process doing the UK governments long term bidding.
     
    How many independently minded individuals have left Scotland in their youth never to become the thorn in the establishments side they may have been destined to be?
     
    How many leave, like myself, in exasperation at the state of their Country, swearing they will return but never do? Or forced out in search of work and life opportunities (again like myself).
     
    Life takes hold of you, you meet partners settle down and a life builds around you and then before you know it ,return seems impossible. It leaves you a little lost inside, but hey ho life goes on.
     
    SLAB now mourns the loss of all their ‘talent’ to Westminster, but for centuries the UK has conveniently exported Scottish talent off to where they will do least harm to the state and most harm for the Empire. I don’t hear SLAB mourning that talent.

    It’s a policy that has served our ‘state’ well. Please don’t help them with the simple dynamic they have set up. Especially now, when we are this close! (and I mean that even with a NO vote)
     
    None of what I have said is to denigrate the talent that remained, but just to try and emphasise the scale and talents of the entire army we might have had, before the decimation of emigration somehow became the norm for our society.

  64. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    CW. Er, you’ve typed some words and made them italic. I’m supposed to be convinced by this in some way?

    There’s a thing called ‘links’ on the interweb. I put one in my post. You can copy and paste them into posts. The link takes you to other pages on the ‘net’. The one I included ‘links’ to a page from a newspaper which interviewed an academic (Matt Qvortrup) who is considered a world expert on referenda. 

    The words were based on his/his colleagues findings and the italic text was used to show I was quoting.

    Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

    Here is a link to his university web page (click it). You can e-mail him using information from it (e-mail address) if you want to ask him about the article/research findings.

    http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/cds/staff/qvortrupmmatt.html

    Hope this is helpful.

    Cheers, SS

  65. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    @Bill C
     
    Just watched the FMs speech at Nigg.
     
    If you haven’t, its worth it. Just quiet confidence and calm reason, the opposition must be dreading any debate in front of camera against the man on this form. I’d put him, Blair and Dennis up against anything they could put together and sleep like a baby.
     
    He doesn’t seem to be in much doubt either.

  66. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Jiggsbro
    That is a good point, but what if all the disappointing Yes voters that can leave, left? That would leave a bit of a hole in our support, and that was the point I was trying to make.
     
    Anyway, I’m becoming increasingly confident in a Yes vote, as the No campaign proceeds to unravel. I don’t have any inside knowledge though, so hopefully its not just ‘groupthink’.

  67. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Tris-
     
    I was just about to post an appeal to Rev which involved the terms ‘currywurst’, ‘NW’ and ‘redux’.
     
    While I was checking ‘redux’ in the dictionary, your post arrived, so I’m back in positive mode, and won’t bother with the negative stuff.
     
    See? You did it right there, perhaps without even knowing it…turning a negative into a positive an’ aw that…isn’t that was AS was on about today?
     
    BTW, the only way anyone will ever find out just how dandy our wallpaper table is? Get to Ayr High St tomorrow, lunchtime-ish (I think that Wallace Tower is quite near the Poundland and/or the Greggs?) and we’ll be there in all our splendour, alongside our ‘Yes South Ayrshire‘ buddies. 
     
    Aye, Ayr will be good tomorrow – we should spare a thought for all those poor bastards who’ll be up at T-in-the-Park, missing it…

  68. Atypical_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve got to ask, what is it that has made everyone so pessimistic?

  69. Adrian B
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Currywurst,
    I’ve got to say Scottish _skier is bang on the money with that comment. Being Scottish and British would be seen as being weird in most places in Europe and no mistake – further afield too, its a statement that would confuse people – its just plain daft.
     
    You can feel Scottish and British if you like – but your going to get talked about behind your back – it just such an odd statement to make and that’s how others will see it.
     
    It was bad enough having an unelected Prime Minister claim he was from North Britain – my Spanish friends still bring that up now and again and that was from years ago. They don’t understand it, can’t get their heads around it and seem laugh about the North British Prime Minister as if he was lost and destitute – perhaps that it Brown never fitted into nu labor. He certainly doesn’t fit into modern Scotland.
     
     
     

  70. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    For Tris, and all the yea-sayers, as a nicht-nicht – Curtis Mayfield…but you’ve got to try and guess the song before clicking the link…
     
    …nae cheating!
     


  71. dee
    Ignored
    says:

    OT regarding polls,, I have wrote to the BBC asking them to clarify which polls they used during the report from Nigg Bay and the visit of the FM. According to the reporter on the evening BBC Scotland news, he said the Yes campaign had a lot of work to do because they were so far behind in the opinion polls.. Now Iam completely taken aback by such bold statements that I have to know were they are getting their information from.  I genuinely want to know were it shows they NO campaign so far ahead that he can say with certainty that the Yes camp have all this work to do.. Now I know they are talking bullshit , but I just want them to admit to me that they are talking bullshit.  VOTE YES and rid us of this shower that has a cheek to call itself a news corporation.  They are the mouthpiece of “PROJECT FEAR”.

  72. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Braco-

    ‘I am coming home as soon as I can to campaign for a YES.’
     
    Does anyone – and I mean this most sincerely folks – know of anyone, anywhere, in any blog, newspaper, or other means of communication, stating that they intend to come back to Scotland to campaign for ‘No’?

  73. Tris
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ianbrotherhood…
     
    It’s a long way from Dundee, but you take some pictures and post them up… then we’ll see about your wallpaper table.
     
    Certainly we need to take all the negatives they’ve been flinging at us, and turn them round. And to a large extent that is what the Rev has been doing here, with a lot of help from his friends. And when we sound a bit down, I think it’s great that we can all cheer each other on! It’s sometimes a hard slog beating down the negativity of Project Fear.
     
    Glad we are ending friday on a positive note. As for People Get Ready, I kinda guessed it from my extremely limited knowledge of Curtis Mayfield (what soul) but wasn’t sure… Brilliant song. Right back at you with a cover version by an old friend of mine.


  74. Linda's back
    Ignored
    says:

    More apoplexy by unionists.
    T in the Park headliners Mumford & Son, as their penultimate song, introduced piper who played Flower of Scotland and was joined by thousands of youngsters who sang all the words of the first two verses.

  75. Yesitis
    Ignored
    says:

    Ianbrotherhood
     
    I cheated and I still got it wrong 🙂
    Nah, in light of this evening`s strange kind of vibe, I thought it was going to be Keep on keeping on (which is a belter of a song too).  Gotta love Curtis Mayfield.

  76. dee
    Ignored
    says:

    And does anyone know anyone who has went from being in the Yes camp and went over to the NO camp???.

  77. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m not aware that any such switches have ever been heard of. You’d think the No camp would scream them from the rooftops if there had.

  78. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    @ dee
    We are no where near the 16 week run-up, so the Beeb doesn’t have to do truth, let alone balance. Never mind what it says in their founding charter, they are the state broadcaster, so I can hardly see them assisting in the state’s dismantlement. In other words, I wouldn’t get your hopes up for any balance before the vote.
     
    I know that I am stating the obvious, but some readers might not have their eyes open to the realities of the Beeb. Unlikely as that might seem. 🙂

    P.S. Sorry for being a drag, after all the positivity.

  79. ianbrotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Tris @ Yesitis-
     
    FFS!
     
    Got a wee tear in the eye now, and it’s not just the Lambrini – that’s why I love this place so much – never do know what’s coming up.
     
    Honestly, I never knew Petula covered that song. Beautiful.
     
    Anyway – Tris, you’re on a promise: by hook, crook, or otherwise, I shall secure images of the Yes Scotland and Ayrshire SSP stalls, and post them here for your personal scrutiny, wallpaper-tables included. (Provided I can make a space in the crowds, naturally…)
     

  80. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    Old leaflet from 2006 Independence First campaign when we were still fighting to get a referendum.  Right hand side, 3rd yellow section down is the most relevant to Stu’s message.
     
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8CTHz_DTDtlTk5VWHpSbUNOeU0/edit?usp=sharing

  81. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    Great cartoon that sums it all up, wish it was one of mine but it isn’t, artist unknown and I have tried to find out.
     
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8CTHz_DTDtlaUR6MmVyOEMxbW8/edit?usp=sharing

  82. Tris
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ianbrotherhood…
     
    I look forward to the images man. Wallpaper table judging is a hobby of mine.
     
    Yes Petula’s version really has some soul there.
     
    Good night all… or as we say in Norwegian… God natt alle …see, it’s easy!

  83. Angus McLellan
    Ignored
    says:

    The Times has a story today headed up Salmond says press biased against him. My response went like this:

    “The Times nailed its Unionist colours to the mast long ago, sometime around 1800 or so perhaps. Who would ever have expected differently from a newspaper which predicted doom for Norway in 1905, for Iceland in 1944, and no doubt for many others between and since? And let’s not mention the Times’ record when it comes to Irish Home Rule. The phrase ‘the wrong side of history’ comes to mind.

    More recently, this newspaper provided Major with a soapbox on which to appeal for a No:No vote a month before the referendum in 1997. He used it to claim that a Yes vote would be bad for businesses and people and lead to higher taxes. Prescient, no? Remember, you read it here, or would have done if you were taking the Times in 1997.

    Even as recently as 2011 things were no better. On 2 May, Ms Davidson revealed to readers that ‘Alex Salmond kicked his flagship plans for an independence referendum into the long grass yesterday in a desperate attempt to halt Labour’s advances in the opinion polls’. Really? ‘Labour advances in the opinion polls’? Of such stuff is a newspaper of record made in the twenty-first century. 

    Neutral? Like a knife in the back. But only an idiot would have expected anything else. But being firmly in the ‘dog bites man’ category, I’m not sure it’s noteworthy or significant enough to merit a shout-out, even in a fairly long speech.”

  84. Christian Wright
    Ignored
    says:

    Angus McLellan says:
    13 July, 2013 at 12:50 am

    “The Times has a story today headed up Salmond says press biased against him. My response went like this:”
     
    A well crafted response, Angus.

  85. Christian Wright
    Ignored
    says:

    A NO vote risks an inevitable and inexorable decent of our culture into obscurity and obsolescence.

    Our independent legal system and education system of necessity dismissed and rejected as incongruous anachronisms, predicated on the once-held delusion of our uniqueness as a people and a country.
     
    The unacceptable risk is that the country we love will be permanently subsumed as a neglected and reviled low-opportunity Celtic backwater of a Greater England. 

  86. Christian Wright
    Ignored
    says:

    Erratum: “. . NO vote risks an inevitable and inexorable DESCENT of our . .”

  87. Shinty
    Ignored
    says:

    I think we’ve already established that there won’t be anyone moving from YES to no (once you know the truth and all that)

    Next year, YES SCOTLAND is going to be everywhere, YES badges, car stickers, garden flags, balloons etc. it’s going to be sooo exciting and very hard to ignore. I reckon even the soft no’s (if there are any left) will change their mind in the polling booth.

  88. Marker Post
    Ignored
    says:

    Entirely off-topic, just found out today that when Ireland gained independence in 1921, three deep water ports, including Cork Harbour, were “retained” by the British in the Treaty Ports (Ireland) agreement. It wasn’t until 1938 that the ports were returned to Ireland, apparently as part of the resolution to a trade dispute.
     
    From the same Wikipedia article, there’s a copy of the Times coverage,
     
    “The British had already departed when Mr. de Valera and Mr. Frank Aiken, the Minister for Defence, arrived in a launch, being greeted by a salute of 19 guns. The troops were formed up around the flagstaff and Mr. de Valera ran up the tricolour national flag of Eire over Westmoreland Fort to the accompaniment of a salute of 21 guns. As the flag was broken there were cheers, re-echoed by the thousands gathered on the mainland.”
     
    Looks like quite a party was held. Wouldn’t it be a great day in Scottish history when these subs sailed out of Faslane for the last time, and took their lethal WMDs with them?
     

  89. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    “Quite. So why do you want to reduce Scotland to our 18th century status?”
    I name you norse warrior and I claim my £100.00 pounds
      

  90. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    “People actually LIKE you?”
    I hate people who get to my line before I do jeannie 🙂

  91. Patrick Roden
    Ignored
    says:

    I live and work in Thailand.
    No one asks about me being British, It’s always English, when I say no, I’m Scottish, their is an immediate change of facial expression with a huge smile and a loud’ Ah Scotaland’ lol.
    No one here has asked me about Independence or the referendum and I doubt if they know anything about it yet.
     
    So Currywurst it talking crap about British and Scottish, but isn’t talking crap what unionists do ?
    so why do we keep responding to them and expecting them to talk sense?
    Captain Caveman disagrees with us, but he enters into a debate and concedes points when he is shown clear evidence…does currywurst?
    No?  then lets not waste our time on him and allow him to change the positive thrust of our comments.
     

  92. Braco
    Ignored
    says:

    Patrick Roden,
    I agree about the worth of responding to Currwurst at the moment, but I don’t  think it’s fair to even mention Captain Caveman in the same breath as him.

    I hope Currywurst keeps posting though, as his politics and attitudes are a constant reminder of what we are all doing here and why every effort and I mean every effort must be exerted before the referendum for a YES vote.

    Anyway who knows, he might learn a thing or two.(Ho ho)

  93. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T 
    seems the tories have done a uturn on the plain packaging for cigarettes debate 
    seems they’re concerned about the impact on the 5000 jobs dependent on cigarette manufacturing in the UK, 
     
    pity they weren’t quite so concerned about the 400.000 thousand miners jobs
    when they cast them on the dole without a moments thought

  94. dee
    Ignored
    says:

    CameronB,,, I know the BBC will hit me with some bullshit reply to my complaint about what opinion polls do they use when reporting on independence matters. It is the fact that they continue to say that we are so far behind the NO camp that I cant accept. But I think that a complaint should be put into the BBC just to let them know we are listening and watching them spew out this crap and they have to tell us were they are getting their information from.  The more complaints and negative feedback they get then the more they know that what they are reporting is not having the effect that they think it should be having. So if you have a spare few minutes then get your complaints wrote into that hate filled, anti-Scots corporation called the BBC. I think that they even detest saying the word “Scots”. Their staff that work in their Scottish branch of the BBC should never be allowed to call themselves “Scots”,  They have sold their soles to their English masters.

  95. Vronsky
    Ignored
    says:

    Was at family birthday barbecue, about 30 people, all (except me and the missus) around 25.  All intending to vote Yes.  Like, duh, obviously – surprised that we asked.

  96. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “I name you norse warrior and I claim my £100.00 pounds”

    You’ll be claiming a banning if you keep that up. Don’t make me say it a third time, folks.

  97. Vronsky
    Ignored
    says:

    Wow!  Seen this
     
    “Deja viewing: Unionists tried to influence 1977 TV series”

  98. westie7
    Ignored
    says:

    OT
    Looking at the newspaaper figures on the BBC website
    The Record/Mail and the Sun at over 200,000 I can understand
    But Scottish Daily Mail at still over 100,00 I find odd and disturbing at the same time

  99. John H
    Ignored
    says:

    Dee. The MOD have offices in Glasgow just across the river from Pacific Quay. Do you think there’s a connection ?

  100. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    I see the British Unionists are rioting again.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23295307

    What is it with the British and violent mobs?

  101. Murray McCallum
    Ignored
    says:

    The events in NI are totally depressing yet predictable. A sizable chunk of society that sees its entire worth from a few historical events.  Zero value seems to be attached to the future. The NI majority will leave these people behind.  Their bitterness will ultimately have nowhere to go if people stick to the path of peace.

  102. MajorBloodnok
    Ignored
    says:

    And what’s worse there is the deliberate and despicable politicisation of the Union flag.  Not as heinous as Salmond’s saltire outrage at Wimbledon of course….er….

  103. Atypical_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    @MajorBloodnok;
     
    Quite so, seems photobombing does more damage to Brighton.

  104. scottish_skier
    Ignored
    says:

    @Murray M.

    Aye. The best thing Scots can do to help resolve the situation is vote Yes. Will certainly make waving the union flag in Glasgow a rather pointless exercise. That and maybe giving pause for those in N. Ireland to reflect on the future of their own nation.

    Sectarianism is all but non-existent in Eire; the green representing the Gaelic/Celtic (catholic) culture of the south, the Orange the Orangemen (protestants) of the North, and the white between these peace and reconciliation.

    Contrast that with the British red hand of ‘No surrender!’.

    Sectarianism is a very British tradition.

  105. max
    Ignored
    says:

    Better Together – Northern Ireland style.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23295307
     
     

  106. max
    Ignored
    says:

     
    What is the difference between photo bombing and petrol bombing?
     
    A flag!

  107. HenBroon
    Ignored
    says:

    Patrick Roden, when I see posts such as you have mentioned it is blindingly obvious to me that they are from the Fear UKOK team, who are driven by vested interest and nothing more. The best way to deal with them is to ignore them and keep painting the positive picture. it is very easy to get drawn in to the negative Rolodex of the Fear campaign. What them happens is that like so many of the fearmongers we have seen over the years they just shrivel up and blow away in the wind.
    Alex Salmond identified it correctly in his speech from Nigg, the positive message wins every time. Just look at the message that the phoenix of Nigg sends to Scottish voters. We can roll that out across Scotland, from the Mull of Galloway to Haroldswick Shetland. If we fail to vote Yes it will not happen, it is that simple. Scotland can be reindustrialised with the huge benefits that will bring in self respect and health alone. Even with out the North Sea oil bonanza it can be done. Just look at what Estonia did with nothing.
    Willie Rennies latest uttering shows how locked in to a cycle of despair and negative gloom the Fear campaign is. Apparently we will be banging the door shut on England who will in turn lock it from there side. That just has to be the most childish drivel that idiot has ever spouted. Just look at this. http://bit.ly/11y50P6
    And this: http://bit.ly/YUS1Ff

  108. HenBroon
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev why is my avatar blocked, it never was b fore?

  109. max
    Ignored
    says:

    Saltires being waved at Belado
     
    Union Jacks being flown in Belfast

  110. Robert Kerr
    Ignored
    says:

    We purchased Irish Linen tablecloths on our trip to Ireland. One in a shop in Dingle, Co Kerry, and the other in the Linen Museum in Lisburn. The difference in the manners of the asistant was extreme, one was open, friendly and helpful, the other sullen, sad and defensive. 
    Time the Ulster people read some Burns.
    “Tae see oorsels as ithers see us”.

  111. Training Day
    Ignored
    says:

    At the end of the day this referendum is about self-respect and dignity.
     
    That is why we are winning and will win.

  112. Atypical_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    @max;
     
    Union jacks being waved in Belfast in anger, sticking the boot into a unionist police force in a pro union demonstration. 
     
    What’s difference between a Saltire and a union jack?
     
     
     
    One’s for bombing…,

  113. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘Rev why is my avatar blocked, it never was b fore?”

    I haven’t a clue. Nothing I’ve done.

  114. The Rough Bounds
    Ignored
    says:

    Regarding this ‘British’ thing, I think the problem lies in the word itself. ‘British’ conveys a sense of nationality or of belonging to a country.
    The word Britain itself has been around for a very long time. Welsh historian Nennius wrote the ‘Historia Britonum’ back in the 9th century.
    The Romans called these islands Britannia. Before that the Greeks referred to the ‘Pretanik’ islands.
    I will admit that I live in the British islands or that I am from the British Islands. But I never, ever refer to myself as ‘British’ for it obscures my national identity.
    Scotland is my country and my nation.

  115. Jeannie
    Ignored
    says:

    @Hen Broon
    Rev why is my avatar blocked, it never was b fore?
     
    There’s just no answer to that, Hen 🙂
     

  116. Adrian B
    Ignored
    says:

    Brilliant piece on Munguins Republic regarding the MP’s pay issue. Worth a read.
     
    http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/foxy-says.html

  117. DonnyWho
    Ignored
    says:

    Very interesting….. Was pleased to hear about the positive message sent out at T in the Park, Yes flags, pipers, Flower of Scotland being sung! So i also noted that the Beeb has covered it so onto Iplayer i went and got the fabled “content does’nt seem to be working.” headline. Am i paraniod, or does the BBC feel they cannot broadcast, off message material? It may resume after suitable editing. Interesting to see if anybody has the origenal material and if it is doctored. Or it could just be a glitch….. Worth watching!

  118. Atypical_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    The term British has been highjacked.
     
    Being British is in fact the same as saying someone from France is European. The British isles are just that. The union is false, and it’s claim on the island itself is a travesty.

  119. Jamie Arriere
    Ignored
    says:

    @Robert Kerr
     
    I remember being on holiday in the Dingle peninsula too about ten years ago, and being asked by a Kerry farmer (the butt of many jokes over the years even in Ireland) :
    “What’s wrong with you people, you Scots? When are you going to get your independence?”
     
    The self-confidence, self-awareness and self-possessed air of that questioner has stayed with me ever since, and convinced me that independence is natural for any country, and is viewed as such everywhere else.
     

  120. HenBroon nae avatar
    Ignored
    says:

    Jeanne go and wash your hard drive out you are very bad, smiley thingy, cannae be ersed ;o))

  121. The Water Beastie
    Ignored
    says:

    @scottish skier, Patrick Roden:
    Another small anecdote on the theme – last June I was meeting with some Chinese potential colleagues in rural Yunnan Province, sub-tropical, a slightly backwater town (Lufeng) of about 32,000 population.  Lunch was a bit stilted, as we suspiciously tried to gauge each other. Then the expected usual enquiries came across the table, with me making clear in response that I was Scottish – not English (or British, for that matter).  This was pondered silently – and after a pause, one of my potential colleagues asked a further question: again, I waited for the Mandarin to be translated for me by my interpreter.
    “He asks how you think the Independence vote will go in 2014.”
    Well, I thought – I think I can work with these people…..
    ….but the moral of the story is, its surprising who HAS heard that the question is coming – even in cultures where they know such a question could never even be asked.
    [And yes, they also emphatically agreed it was important that next September I would be in Scotland, not China.  😀 ]

  122. CameronB
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Dee
    Although I think writing such complaints is unlikely to have any direct effect, you are of course correct in stressing the need to register our complaints. The more letters we write, the more resources the BBC has to divert from the front line.  After all, “every little helps”, hence the corporate and Royal abuse of off-shore tax havens.
     
    I don’t know what critical mass of ‘moaning jocks’ it will take to trigger independent international observers, but as has been pointed out before, the British PM has to make the request for an observation mission. Hardly likely, given the BBC is the state broadcaster. No, I think the only way forward is to keep the Beeb under the spotlight, to highlight and ridicule every instance of ‘fascia journalism’. We then need to tell everyone, post everywhere (under multiple names if you like), and generally do everything we can to subvert their message. We are the guerrilla forces softening up the Unionist defenses, in advance of the SG defining the debate with the White Paper. Then perhaps we can all march in unison to our rightful independence.

  123. Patrick Roden
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Braco,
    I was in no way comparing  Captain Caveman to Currywurst, I was in fact pointing out the contrast.
     

  124. Patrick Roden
    Ignored
    says:

    I think Alex Salmond made a very clever but positive comment about the BBC, in Nigg.
     He responded to a question about BBC and other MSM bias, by agreeing that the printed press are biased, but how he didn’t think the BBC were really all that biased but that they needed to be more careful when repeating things that have been reported in the printed press.
     
    He certainly didn’t say the BBC were not biased, he just said they were repeating bias reports that had been in the newspapers (such as polling results)
     
    So the BBC journalists now look a bit silly every time they regurgitate stories from a biased Print media in Scotland.
     
    A good question to ask the BBC is :
    Why are we paying a licence fee, for news that we could have read in the Scotsman the day before?

  125. Braco
    Ignored
    says:

    Patrick Roden,
    sorry Patrick, my mistake.

  126. Jamie Arriere
    Ignored
    says:

    @DonnyWho
     
    Yes I noticed that last night – Mumford and Sons got a piper to play Flower of Scotland during their set, really seem to love the Scottish crowds and the love was pretty mutual – and not a union flag in sight!
     
    Here’s to peaceful melodious co-existence.

  127. Christian Wright
    Ignored
    says:

    “He certainly didn’t say the BBC were not biased, he just said they were repeating bias reports that had been in the newspapers (such as polling results)”
     
    Methinks he deceives to flatter. 

  128. colin mccartney
    Ignored
    says:

    my Danish girlfriend simply asks why are we even having a vote!!!!!! “Who” she asks, “wouldnt want to run their own affairs”, when told that there does seem to be a number of them, she looks amazed. Its difficult to explain at times.



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