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The morality of Madland

Posted on August 22, 2013 by

So, to the elephant in the room, then. Certain elements of the Scottish press are busting a gut today in an attempt to fabricate a scandal around a man writing some honest opinions in a newspaper for money.

emailhack

Judging by the tone of the coverage, it seems they have a case, in so far as that Scottish newspapers are plainly no place for honesty.

Let’s lay out the facts that are known and undisputed.

1. The police are involved in investigating serious allegations that Yes Scotland’s email system may have been hacked, so we’re not going to comment on that.

2. Dr W. Elliot Bulmer is research director of the Constitutional Commission and author of “A Model Constitution for Scotland: Making Democracy Work in an Independent State”. He’s personally an advocate of an independent Scotland (on which the CC takes no position) with a written constitution, and in addition to his book has written articles in the media on the same subject on numerous occasions, including this piece for the Guardian in March of this year.

3. Last month he submitted such a piece to The Herald, who elected to publish it. The article identified Dr Bulmer as director of the Constitutional Commission, but did NOT state or suggest that he was speaking on its behalf.

4. Dr Bulmer had been asked to write the piece by Yes Scotland, who also advocate Scottish independence. They paid him a very modest fee (around £100) for his work. The Herald paid nothing.

5. It is alleged that the information revealing the fact of the payment by Yes Scotland came via the unauthorised access to Yes Scotland email accounts.

6. Blair McDougall, director of the anti-independence “Better Together” campaign, is paid by it to advocate Scotland remaining in the United Kingdom. To this end he’s written several articles for online newspaper The Huffington Post, for which (to the best of our knowledge) he has not been paid by that publication.

7. He’s also written anti-independence articles for other publications, including this piece for the Guardian, in which he is not identified as having any connection to “Better Together”.

mcdguardian

8. Neither of these situations breaks any laws. People can accept money from whoever they want to write articles. Newspapers can choose whether or not to publish submitted content. There is no requirement to disclose any financial arrangements on any side of the arrangement.

9. So we have a Yes advocate being paid by the Yes campaign to write pro-Yes articles for newspapers on one side, and a No advocate being paid by the No campaign to write pro-No articles for newspapers on the other side. In at least one case on each side, the writer of the article is not identified in the story as having a connection to the relevant campaign. Seems fair.

10. The media has however, for no readily apparent reason but coincidentally at the same time the hacking allegation has arisen, suddenly and bizarrely decided to present ONE of those things as a shocking skeleton in Yes Scotland’s closet, throwing around absurdly inappropriate words like “bung” and alleging all manner of sinister impropriety.

11. A number of Scottish journalists have called for the resignation of various people over the matter, including Yes Scotland head Blair Jenkins, despite no laws having been broken and no untrue or misleading statements having been given by anyone to anyone at any time.

12. Ironically, journalists doing so include some who occupied senior positions at the News Of The World during the phone-hacking scandal, for which numerous executives of the newspaper currently face serious criminal charges.

That’s it. If you’re confused and don’t understand why any of this constitutes a story, we empathise, because we don’t either. Insufferable, pompous arse-ache James Mackenzie of “Better Nation” has nevertheless summarised the situation rather well and succinctly here, which saves us some valuable time that we really need to spend on popping into town to get a spare key cut for our garage.

We won’t go into the reason why we need to do that, because it’s pretty crazy and involves us having done something quite embarrassingly stupid. But it still pales into comparison with the insanity that’s unfolding in Scotland’s media today.

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227 to “The morality of Madland”

  1. MajorBloodnok says:

    I think it’s squirrel season.

  2. Doug Daniel says:

    “We won’t go into the reason why we need to do that, because it’s pretty crazy and involves us having done something quite embarrassingly stupid.”
     
    Total lack of transparency there, Stu. Just what we’ve all come to expect from the vile Gnats and their separation agenda. Why won’t Alex Salmond TELL US why you need to get a new key cut?

  3. Restlessnative says:

    “I think it’s squirrel season.”
     
    They’re certainly madder than a sack of rabid ones.

  4. Cath says:

    Why did the Herald accept an article for publication but not pay going journalist rates for it?
     
    Does it pay for pieces that are pro-union?
     
    If so why the disparity?
     
    If not, who does pay?

  5. I don’t see this scandal getting much traction I have to say.  Whenever I tell my mother ‘Hey, I got a paper published’ her first question is ‘how much money do you get for that?’
    The perception that academics should do external work for free but politicians should be paid for their appearance on certain television shows is one you only get from being in a bubble that distorts the real world.

  6. Incidentally, I get paid £300 a pop to produce external exams and assignments, four times a year.  I wouldn’t change my professional business cards for £100, much less my views on the things that fall within my domain of authority and thus the bedrock of my professional reputation.  The idea that the £100 has any bearing on what was written is laughable.

  7. MajorBloodnok says:

    What I find incredible is that the information allegedly obtained via illegal hacking is being used to try to distract from the allegation that such illegal hacking took place.  Are they that stupid?
     
    However, the attempt to smear Dr Bulmer clearly falls into the pattern of intimidation that is used when any third party writes an informed piece that could conceivably support the notion or mechanisms of independence.
     
    From all this frenzy over what is an incredibly minor issue it seems to me that BT and its apparatus are extremely nervous indeed, whether because they’ll be found to have been involved in illegal activity or whether the numbers aren’t looking good for the Union.
     
    Cue further ‘spoliers’ and ‘scoops everytime something potentially pro-independence pops up.  I wonder what egregious “Top Secret” dossiers will appear to draw the headlines when the white paper is published?

  8. Dcanmore says:

    Surely it’s no different than Professor John Curtice being hired time and time again by the BBC to examine poll results or The Scotsman hiring ex Labour minister Brian Wilson to write anti-independence guff. Do Blair McDougall and Alistair Darling front a campaign for free? And the only reason Dr Bulmer got paid is because he asked for payment. It’s all rather bizarre to me unless I’m missing something completely. I don’t get the whole bungs rationale at all. You write a piece and you get (hopefully) paid for it, simples.

  9. Seasick Dave says:

    What a pile of shite the Scottish press are.

  10. DougtheDug says:

    The whole thing seems to be following a predictable pattern.
     
    Because they regard nationalists as the scum of the earth then “No Scotland”/Labour start shouting “Scandal, Scandal” at the slightest provocation because if it’s nationalists then it’s wrong.
     
    The MSM try desperately to give the story traction by ramping it up with enthusiastic backing from the BBC because they managed to get Stewart Stevenson that way and they hate nationalists too.
     
    Despite numerous and vigorous attempts to start the scandal engine the whole thing dies because there was no petrol to start with.
     
    It’s the standard scenario.

  11. Dcanmore says:

    The only things I can think of is this is a distraction against the far far more serious allegation of email hacking and also they’re now going after Blair Jenkins which I believe they haven’t really done before as all their bile was aimed at AS before now.

  12. Seasick Dave says:

    If you want to read about expenses, here’s a good example.
     
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10068/gordon_brown/kirkcaldy_and_cowdenbeath#expenses
     
    For safety reasons, don’t be eating or drinking while you read.

  13. NorthBrit says:

    @RevStu
    To be fair, in this article you’re guilty of using absurdly inappropriate words like “journalist” while linking to Euan McColm’s twitter feed.  
     
    I’d say the context of the link was pretty misleading (I know I should have hovered over the link first but I didn’t think of it in time).  Brrr.

  14. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Dcanmore
     
    I’m reading it as desperation on BT’s part as they scrabble around trying to find something, anything, to damage the inexorable progress of the YES campaign.

  15. muttley79 says:

    What are the likes of McColm and co playing at?    

  16. scottish_skier says:

    You have a garage?
     
    I didn’t know that. Very significant development in the debate.

  17. So it’s ok for a unionist to take money from nationalists’ donations but not ok for a nationalist to take payment from nationalists’ donations? 
     http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4794-independence-federalism-and-sovereignty
    The anti independence brigade do not get to call the shots here though to be honest I have done a little campaigning today and the only reference I have heard was when someone asked me about the “break in”.  I asked what they meant and they said they thought there had been a break in at the “independence offices”.  (I explained that it was about email being hacked.)

  18. Craig M says:

    The Scottish Press are Anti-Scottish!
    It’s as simple as that.
    When you couch it in these terms the Anti-Scottish nature of the Scottish Press is easy for all to see. By extension the journalists who cooperate in this are Anti-Scottish.
    I think we need to start highlighting this rather loudly.
    A definition and set of criteria need to be defined and then the press, publications and individual journalists measured against this.

  19. handclapping says:

    @muttley79
    They’re probably jealous that Bulmer got paid more than they do. Even so its more than they’re worth.

  20. Marcia says:

    Check your brakes.

  21. MajorBloodnok says:

    @scottish_skier
     
    You are being enigmatic!

  22. handclapping says:

    @skier
    If he has a car, well that’s anti-green so what is he doing supporting Yes which is a front for the SGP. And we’ve been sending him bungs. He should resign, its only ethical and him a Reverend too 🙂

  23. big_al says:

    Heard Bulmer on the radio say that the reason he asked for a small fee was to negate any accusation that he was contributing pro-indy articles to Yes Scotland for free.

  24. ianbrotherhood says:

    Anyone else get the feeling that Cochers is unusually terse about this? A hint of pre-emptive arse-covering?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/alancochrane/

  25. Thepnr says:

    @big_al
    Exactly what I thought might be the case, £100 is a nominal amount of money and to describe this as a “bung” is ludicrous.

  26. Macart says:

    Maybe its a bike. A biker Rev… hmmmmm 😀

  27. NorthBrit says:

    @Ian Brotherhood
    Not going there.  Still trying to erase the memories of the McColm tweet site.  The novelty of sewer diving wears off pretty quickly.

  28. MajorBloodnok says:

    If this is the most devastating smear that BT and the orchestrated poodle MSM can come up, God help them.  And playing the man, not the ball.  Typical.

  29. les wilson says:

    ianbrotherhood
    This heap of dung comes from a man who openly said in a tv interview that loves no better than NAT bashing! Enough said !
    Ref this article, my impression is that it was a predetermined effort by the MSM and cohorts. Deliberately to get people focused on this drivel, rather than the very much more serious case of the hacking, which, whatever way you cut it obviously came from BT side via someone under their instruction.
    That aside, it tells me they are shitting themselves! The gravy bowl has a hole in it!

  30. lumilumi says:

    The point in this manufactured “scandal” is that the Herald didn’t pay Dr Bulmer, the YES campaign did. (a whopping £100!)
     
    Dr Bulmer’s piece appeared as a column (=opinion piece). The Herald accepted it for publication but declined to pay for it, strapped for cash as they are (or unwilling to pay for anything slightly pro-indy?) We don’t know whether Dr Bulmer approached the YES campaign or the other way around, and when (before/after Herald’s acceptance of the piece/refusal to pay, whatever… But bearing in mind that Dr Bulmer is a known supporter of indy, he problably knows fair few yessers of old, maybe there’s been informal chat about him writing something about a written constitution at some point – it’s his area of expertise, after all).
     
    The Scottish MSM and the BBC have latched on to this as a way to discredit the YES campaign and call for Blair Jenkins’s resignation and all kinds of faux outrage and over-reactions. And as a way of deflecting attention from the more serious allegation of hacking.
     
    If this is all BT (not British Telecom, who are helping the police to investigate the hacking allegations, the other one) have, they’re once again scraping the bottom of the barrel. They’ve been doing it so much for the past two years that they must’ve gone through the bottom and burrowed so far underground that they’ll soon be in China. Or Australia, or New Zealand, or whatever place is directly opposite Scotland on this globe.
     
    On the subject of money for editorial/editorial control in newspapers… Doesn’t the Scotsman now have this scheme, Friends of the Scotsman or whatever it’s called. For a suitable fee, any lobby, party, whatever, can edit their own content into the Scotsman, no questions asked.

  31. scottish_skier says:

    You are being enigmatic!
     
    I felt that more significant than the Bulmer story in terms of the debate whilst we await findings on who did the hacking.
     
    For some reason I saw Rev in a flat. Now I’m imagining a nice semi. Of course you can get flats with garages…

  32. les wilson says:

    A little addition to previous, I sincerely hope the SCOTTISH POLICE, looking into this and get to the bottom of it, leading to charges ( hacking ), and that the same force will not bend the law to appease the dark forces.

  33. Albalha says:

    I don’t understand this at all. Surely newspapers commission articles? If so did they ask YES Scotland for an article who in turn paid this author to write the piece for them (perfectly normal) and if so did the Herald pay the YES campaign as the entity they commissioned the article from?
    If not why not. Very confused.

  34. Jimbo says:

    “…they’re now going after Blair Jenkins which I believe they haven’t really done before as all their bile was aimed at AS before now.”
     
    I have no doubt whatsoever that Patrick Harvie, Nicola Sturgeon, Colin Fox, and any other prominent pro Indy politician, will be seen as prime targets by the NO camp’s smear and scandal merchants the closer we get to the referendum.

  35. handclapping says:

    @macart
    No hmmm, more brmmm.

  36. heraldnomore says:

    Good luck with the spare key Rev.  If it’s a garage door like man you haven’t got a prayer hope.
     
    Meantime if someone gave me a token hundred quid and then the professional journalists of these shores decided to make an issue of it, I think I might just be inclined to make a donation to a worthy cause, or poll, write some more articles free of charge, and generally ramp it up a bit.
     
    And please no more Magrit, at least not in pictures, and preferably not in transcript either.

  37. Gillie says:

    Who benefits from this crime?
     
    That’s the question the police will be asking.
     
    When you consider that elements of the Scottish media are going into overdrive trying to deflect public attention away from the hack, it certainly points to something deeper and darker – for this is an attempted smear that has gone badly wrong.
     
    Somebody, probably a journalist, is going to get jailed over this one. 

  38. Thepnr says:

    No one knows if this piece of non-news is all they had. Since it apparently was acquired  through illegal hacking maybe the perpetrators were just testing the water to gauge the reaction before revealing more dross.
    Was this really the telegraphs lead story?

  39. Red squirrel says:

    Kind of BT to publicise pro-independent articles which readers may not otherwise have picked up. They seem so keen to help the Yes campaign you have to wonder if they’re secretly hoping for separation after all.

  40. Arajag says:

    If you click McDougalls name in the Guardian link, it does indeed tell you he is director of the Better Together campaign. It was unwise of Bulmer to accept the payment, as it was Yes Scotland to pay him. However, its a storm in a tea cup. Nothing to see here really. The hacking of the email accounts is more worrying for all concerned.

  41. scottish_skier says:

    They seem so keen to help the Yes campaign you have to wonder if they’re secretly hoping for separation after all.
     
    I must admit I’ve been increasingly wondering about this too. If I wanted to push Scotland out of the union / give it no real choice but to leave, I’d adopt largely the same strategy as unionists are currently employing.

  42. Heather McLean says:

    What a pile of shite the Scottish press are.

      Couldn’t have described the Scottish press more eloquently if I tried! ????????

  43. G H Graham says:

    It wouldn’t surprise me if The Herald is the source of the manufactured scandal. They chose not to declare Dr. Bulmer’s political persuasion in the article & by all account have said that they paid him nothing for said article.

    However, if they knew by whatever means (slip of tongue, gossip, plain straight question etc) that he had been paid by someone else, in this case, the YES campaign, what then to prevent them from passing on this “scandalous news” to another journalist. And then use that journalist’s printed faux outrage to concoct their own story about how they & the Scottish electorate were “deceived”.

    Of course, it’s all shite because writing an article for a fee is not illegal and YES is not legally obliged to tell anyone how its money is spent, except HM Dept. of Revenue & Customs even if it enjoys tax exempt status.

    If someone illegally accessed private email data then that indeed is a story but that has nothing to do with a man writing an article for a nominal fee that is sympathetic to the cause of independence. The BT mob are trying to fabricate a scandal, aided & abetted by The herald & the rest of the comic style Scottish media when none exists.
     

  44. Heather McLean says:

    Seasick Dave says:
    22 August, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    What a pile of shite the Scottish press are.

      Couldn’t have described the Scottish press more eloquently if I tried! ????????

  45. Macart says:

    @handclapping
     
    I think we need to know, biker or corsa commando. Which is it? 😀

  46. ianbrotherhood says:

    Newsdrive said, after Brian Taylor’s breakdown of what’s happening, that they’ll be talking to Blair Jenkins at 5.30, and may also be hearing from AS…but unless I picked it up wrongly they’re going to ask them about the conviction of Walker and whether or not the SNP should have done something about him sooner than they did.
     
    Good old BBC Scotland…give them a shovel, and they’ll just keep digging until the Man behind The Curtain tells them to stop.

  47. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “It was unwise of Bulmer to accept the payment, as it was Yes Scotland to pay him.”

    Why? People deserve to get paid for their work.

  48. Morag says:

    It seems quite simple to me.
     
    Is Elliot Bulmer an expert on constitutional affairs? – Yes.
    Is Elliot Bulmer therefore someone whose opinions might be interesting and relevant during the referendum campaigh? – Yes.
    Is Elliot Bulmer a committed supporter of independence for Scotland, and known to be such? – Yes.
    Did Elliot Bulmer write anything that contradicted his personal opinion and beliefs? – No.
     
    So, considering that the newspapers are stuffed to the margins with anti-independence opinion pieces, is it not the case that even a modicum of balance might suggest that Elliot Bulmer’s opinion piece is exactly what the public should be able to read?
     
    However, the Herald refused to pay him even a modest fee for providing them with this absolutely unremarkable and pertinent material.  So the Yes campaign covered his fee.
     
    We should be asking why opinions like this are not being published in the mainstream media, and why the Yes campaign is having to go out and seek such material and fund its production.  Shame on these so-called newspapers.

  49. Jamie Arriere says:

    £500K donation from dodgy source? No questions
    £100 payment for professional piece of work scooped from a hacked email? Front-page news and pant-shitting faux outrage.
     
    R.I.P Scottish journalism

  50. HandandShrimp says:

    I would call the press, and Better Together’s unholy relationship with the press, moral pygmies but I am not sure that doesn’t cast an aspersion on pygmies who as far as I know have done nothing to deserve such a guilt by association insult.
     
    That said I can’t get too worked up about it as only an utter macaroon would think Blair McDougall’s comments  (and echoed by his press poodles) are anything other than desperate rear guard action, trying to make it sound that the hacking was anything other than a shabby pathetic example of UK political mores at their shabby pathetic worst and yet another reason why we need to get the hell from this place.  
     
    Trace the hackers and let’s see them in the dock.

  51. Thepnr says:

    Why would the BBC be talking to Blair Jenkins about Walker? That would be odd in my view, so guess it’s about the hacking and paying Dr Bulmer.

  52. Morag says:

    Why? People deserve to get paid for their work.
     
    Bulmer seems to have said that he only took a fee to deflect the accusation that he was doing unpaid work for the Yes campaign!

  53. Arajag says:

    @RevStu, I think there there are times when people should use discretion. Given your background, would you extend the ethos that “people should be paid for their work” to, say, a journalist giving a glowing opinion piece on a videogame and subsequently finding out he/she was paid by the publisher of said videogame? 
    Why even take the risk with Bulmer/Yes Scotland? Especially for the paltry sum of £100. Don’t pay him; don’t leave yourself open to today’s silly headlines.

  54. raineach says:

    As a reporter to the Law Society, reporting on complaints against solicitors, I was paid £100 per report. This usually involved about 8 hours of work. Ministers who conduct funerals are routinely paid a similar sum. It is usually considered to be non-taxable income and is referred to as an ‘honorarium’. What troubles me most about the MSM is their desire not to inform or educate but to leave their readership less educated than before.

  55. HandandShrimp says:

    but unless I picked it up wrongly they’re going to ask them about the conviction of Walker and whether or not the SNP should have done something about him sooner than they did.
     
    LOL, like they did with Saville, Hall and others? I don’t know about digging, lobbing half bricks in greenhouses more like.

  56. G H Graham says:

    Arrarags argument is thinner than Donald Trump’s hair.

  57. Patrick Roden says:

    @ Arajag, not long ago A person calling themselves Currywurst, was making the same points about gaming journalism. do you know him? did you do your research together?
    Just asking like.

  58. Patrick Roden says:

    This is the latest in a line of smears, that have emerged as BT has changed track from ‘Fear’ to ‘Smear’
     
    LFI
    Wings
    Blair Jenkings.
    I won’t mention Alex Salmond as he has been getting smeared since day one.
    You can see the New Labour Tactics that were introduced by Tony Blair, Alistair Campbell and ‘Lord’ Mandelson, has helped form the tactics of BT.
     

  59. Jamie Arriere says:

    @Arajag,
     
    I’m sorry but the £100 is not, and should not, be the headline – you yourself have called it ‘silly’. The real story is the hacking of the email, and let’s hope it grows arms and legs so it can throttle and kick some of the idiots peddling the distraction!!

  60. HandandShrimp says:

    Agrajag
     
    That might be fair comment if the piece was a glowing epistle to Yes Scotland. However, it was an opinion piece on constitutional matters a subject dear to Bulmer. He said nothing that was contrary to his own stance. If anyone was on board it was Yes Scotland with Bulmer rather than Bulmer on board with Yes Scotland.
     
    It is manufactured outrage to deflect from a serious crime, one that is likely to see Brookes and Co. facing the nick so they can’t see they didn’t know the consequences of hacking.  

  61. Red squirrel says:

    The really good bit in this is that Blair McDougall is coming the outraged citizen – yes folks, the very same identified as the least trusted in a recent professionally generated poll.
    Smiley thing.

  62. MajorBloodnok says:

    The crux of all this is the Unionist ploy of making anyone with pro-independence views out as being abnormal and an abberation.  And if there is actually an informed and cogent pro-independence opinion that can’t be argued against attack the man, not the message.
     
    BT are always complaining about the lack of debate but open, reasonable and intelligent debate is the last thing that they want – it would only show them up as the lying self-serving bastards they really are.

  63. Norrie says:

    This is a a rock and a hard place problem.
    Take money and the Yes campaign accused of buying ad pieces don’t take the money and you are as a professional aligning yourself with one side or the other thereby risking your reputation.
    Solution no academic publishes anything that could vaguely be pro indy no mud to sling.
    Now I wonder who would benieft from that?

  64. Arajag says:

    @HandandShrimp @Jamie – Like I said, silly headlines. It’s simply an opinion that Yes Scotland/Bulmer were unwise. I didn’t say anything untoward was going on. I also said it was a storm in a teacup compared to the email hacking.

  65. handclapping says:

    So is it alright for Gardham to receive money from the Herald because he isn’t an expert? Or is it because he is a more expert expert? Or because he contracted to fill so many column inches a month? If it is a matter of opinions well OBE should be getting at least as much, he there more often and is a waste of millions of electrons.
     
    If the Herald needs pieces it should pay for them. Where is the freedom of the fourth estate if it’s integrity has suborned by acceptance of puff pieces? We will soon be back to Pitt’s employment of the Grub Street hacks and taxes on newspapers.

  66. twenty14 says:

    Call £100 a bung – you couldn’t even meet a Labour Councillor for a coffee for that amount !

  67. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Norrie
     
    Yes, basically write a pro-independence piece and get attacked or drowned out one way or the other.  Unionist intimidation, pure and simple.  They don’t want the message getting out so they try to stifle anyone that might have something reasonable or positive to say about the opportunities that independence can bring.
     
    It simply parallels the refusals to allow YES to campaign at public events.  Democratic these guys are not.  What a shower.

  68. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “£500K donation from dodgy source? No questions”

    To be fair, the press in general and the Herald in particular did go in pretty heavy on Taylorgate.

  69. Edward Barbour says:

    I think as far as Police investigations are concerned, I don’t hold out much hope (I hope I’m wrong) but I suspect that we will get a ‘Police Scotland have found no evidence of hacking’ or ‘Police Scotland report that they believe hacking took place but there is insufficient evidence to prosecute anyone’

  70. Tamson says:

    Agree with Barbour above. I’ve got a trilby marinating in the event of any charges being brought over the hacking.

  71. Albalha says:

    Blair Jenkins has just been on Newsdrive to talk about this issue, not asked about Walker.
    I agree the hacking is the story which he said as much as he could about but personally I don’t understand why the end of the article didn’t say commissioned by YES Scotland, that’s what it was, why not be clear.
     

  72. Andy-B says:

    BBC Scotlandshire, attempted to twist the story today on the lunchtime news, by focusing on the monies paid to the academic, instead of the more serious topic of the hacking of the YES camps E-mails.
    Mingus Campbell was wheeled out to berate the YES camp, and the fact they paid for an academics research, only after a few minutes of castigating the YES camp and its supposed utter failure did Sir Mingus mention briefly, mention that hacking E-mails was a wrong thing to do.
     
    BT and BBC Scotlandshire, swung this E-mail hacking into a PR stunt for BT,
    the power of the media, showed how easy it is to put a slant on the facts.

  73. Robert Louis says:

    Well, we all knew the unionists will play dirty filthy – they get their cue from London.
     
    Somebody hacked the E-mail of a reputable DEMOCRATIC and PEACEFUL organisation campaigning for Scottish democracy.  How low will such people stoop??
     
    Honestly, as I’ve said here before, some of these better together people would be run out of town in any other country.
     
    As for the media, well, I am now of the opinion that there are NO reputable journalists working for the MSM in Scotland.  They are just one big freaking joke – I mean that story about police stop and search figures just beggars belief for utter moronic stupidity. Maybe somebody should but the Herald a freaking pocket calculator.
    What a joke the Herald and laughingly titled ‘Scotsman’ have become.
     
     They are worse than comics, written by the intellectually challenged.

  74. MajorBloodnok says:

    I think someone should ask Blair MacDougall if BT has paid for any ‘journalism’ recently?  Wonder if we’ll get an answer.

  75. les wilson says:

    Gillie
    I agree the hacker SHOULD go to prison after all the stushie with Levenson etc,should have frightened them from doing stuff like this.
    No doubt this person took a risk, but who for? Whoever was guiding him and giving the ok, must be found also, the truth must come out. Then they too should be facing a sentence.

  76. velofello says:

    MSM’s behaviour only stiffens my resolve to campaign for independence. 
     

  77. annie says:

    Not surprised to see Kate Higgins “not happy” about Yes Scotland paying for article  – she didn’t have much to say about the hacking though.  Anyone  else think she has more in common with the bitter together brigade

  78. Macart says:

    To be fair, the press in general and the Herald in particular did go in pretty heavy on Taylorgate
     
    Here’s hoping they go in just as heavy on the hacking scandal, when the facts are released. Clearly neither Mr Bulmer nor YES Scotland have committed any illicit act here and the stank being cast about by BT and their cronies is pure smokescreen. Makes you wonder though, if they themselves have nothing to fear from the police inquiry, then why the storm in a teacup?
     
    No doubts all will be revealed in due course.

  79. Bill C says:

    There are three issues here:
    1. The hypocrisy of ‘Better Together’
    2.The attempt by ‘Better Together’ to deflect attention from the fact that it appears that a criminal act has been committed.
    3. The very serious issue of the alleged ‘hacking’ of a private email.
    The first one is to be expected.
    The second one is typical of an organisation which employs lies, smears and distortions to try to damage its opponents.
    The third if proved, is an act of criminality and the perpetrators must be brought to justice.

  80. Jamie Arriere says:

    “£500K donation from dodgy source? No questions”
    To be fair, the press in general and the Herald in particular did go in pretty heavy on Taylorgate.
    _________
    Ok, I accept the press tried for a while (though the smell has obviously gone now), but the broadcasters certainly didn’t ask any. It all seems a distant memory now.

  81. AlexMci says:

    @ Edward Barbour, I suspect you are correct. They would be as well just announcing it straight away and save on all the overtime man hours which will inevitibly be put against their “exhaustive investigations” Into the afformentioned complaint.Sad but true.

  82. gordoz says:

    Edward Barbour says:
    They’ll report nothing. All the standard special branch garb coming Im sure.

    Rev : Speaking of ‘The Curran’
    Could we sample the idea of a wee arms length side fund at some point to get a fashion ‘expert’ to do an article on the ‘wrongs and wrongs’ of Ms Currans wardrobe.
    Just as a bit of retaliation like !

    Bulmers response on BBC
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-23803022

  83. gordoz says:

    Blair Jenkins added: “Make no mistake, what this amounts to is an attack on democracy”. GIRUY ‘Loyalist Britland’
    “What is extremely disappointing is the reaction so far from our opponents who appear to prefer to dabble in manufactured outrage about a perfectly legitimate fee that was paid to an academic freelance writer rather than condemning this extremely serious, criminal activity.
    Nice how they always start with BT aspect & BMcD bilge.

  84. Tom says:

    I got bored reading the comments, so apologies if someone has already addressed this point, but @DavieClegg appears to have suggested on Twitter that Yes Scotland presented the article to the Herald, not Bulmer, as is suggested in point 3.
    Earlier today he [Clegg] tweeted:
    @dhothersall Yes had Bulmer write the article. Yes presented it to Herald. Herald agreed to publish but refused to pay. Yes paid.”
    Perhaps I’m just splitting hairs?

  85. What really irks me is, how the BBC Scotland news think they can get away with highlighting the opposite of what is the real story? Honestly hacking an organization’s email account is secondary, then using that tainted information to headline a non-story, is beyond comprehension. With everything that has happened this week, an attempt to silence a newspaper, using hacked material to make up a story. The UK is beginning to resemble post glasnost Eastern Europe, with the state controlling the news output and asphyxiating democratic processes. What are they going to do if Scotland votes YES next year, send in the tanks? Sorry steam coming out of my ears now!

  86. Murray McCallum says:

    The hacking of private information is obviously a serious matter.  You would hope this kind of thing was behind us.  I hope Police Scotland act a bit quicker than the Met – or maybe I missed the outcome of the complex case of that posh bloke on a bike, caught on CCTV, pushing it through a gate?

  87. Macart says:

    Were I BT I wouldn’t have touched the information contained within that hack with 10ft cattle prod. Any who seek to use said information are tainted by its acquisition. The cherry on top is the nature of the information. Not exactly much to write home about unless of course you’re the type of person who is desperate for an angle, any bloody angle at all. 🙂

  88. les wilson says:

    Just watching STV”, they are going into it full belt !
    Think we should consider “STV” as NBTV. North British TV.
    I no longer consider them ” Scottish”,not even in name.

  89. Sorry that should have read, “Pre Glasnost”, steam clouding my screen!
     

  90. Albalha says:

    O/T
    I’m just back from a working trip to the North West, anyway spotted a Newsnet banner just south of the Kessock bridge, may be worth doing, very visible.

  91. rabb says:

    My fingers are heavier than lead as I type this.

    As someone who couldn’t be arsed with politics last year I am now beginning to realise why.

    The unrelenting negativity coming from the MSM & Better Together campaign (Blair McDougall in particular) is now turning me off to this whole debate altogether. I suppose it’s mission accomplished Bliar?
     
    I really am losing the fucking will to live here. Is there not a fast forward button we can hit to take us into next year?

  92. Thepnr says:

    @rabb
    Illegitimi non carborundum is a mock-Latin aphorism meaning “Don’t let the bastards grind you down”.

  93. cynicalHighlander says:

    The gutter press led by the beeb has finally gone past the U bend of no return.

  94. Angus MacC says:

    Its all very petty compared to Vitol and Better together /LabServative party payments

  95. scottish_skier says:

    As I’ve said in the past, the intensity and outlandishness of propaganda always increases exponentially as a ‘regime’ approaches it’s final demise.
     
    Things seem to be going swimmingly.

  96. ianbrotherhood says:

    @rabb-
     
    Don’t get down about it man – seriously. We’re getting to them, and everyone knows it. More importantly, we’re getting some truth to the ‘ordinary’ punters who’ve been kept in the dark for decades. 

  97. les wilson says:

    Blair Jenkins on “STV” ? tonight at 10.30pm.

  98. muttley79 says:

    @Rabb
     
     
    Don’t get disillusioned!!  That is what they want you to feel like (the MSM and Unionists).  Stay positive, go to the march next month, get involved.

  99. Angus says:

    They police cannot say that there is no case to answer as we already know that a newspaper or media outlet asked a question that could only be known from an email that someone (or plural) hacked from Yes Scotland.
     
    The whole thing is very traceable indeed and the ugly attempt to smear the Yes Campaign and this academic (STV ensured the ‘bung’ mentioned wasn’t revealed as £100 requested by the author) and state that this ‘bung’ is the somehow a fucking motive to be untruthful is hilarious but I would rather be in the shoes of Yes scotland and the academic than the sleazy people looking at jail for hacking, even if the bbc and stv support the hackers!

  100. Stuart Black says:

    Just watched Ming the Mendacious on Reporting Scotland, mealy-mouthed statement about how terrible the Bulmer payment scandal is, couldn’t help but think back to his sheepish appearance on Question Time, trying lamely to explain his treatment of his parliamentary expenses. I know which I think tips the wrong-doing scales.
     
    Hypocrite of the first water.

  101. Alba4Eva says:

    We NEED to announce a MASS NON-PAYMENT of the BBC FEE at the Rally on the Hill.
    .
    There is no other way to fight this!

  102. Xander says:

    Scottish Police confirm illegal activity has occurred and that hunt for offender now under way.
    https://twitter.com/ScottishPolice
     

  103. Training Day says:

    @Robert Louis

    RL, you are right. We must now assume there are no journalists with integrity in the ‘Scottish’ MSM. It goes without saying that those who had integrity at the BBC, like Isobel Fraser, have been removed from history.

    Rabb – you must expect even more of the shite we’ve had to endure today, only worse. It shows we are winning.

  104. Tinyzeitgeist says:

    BBC Distorting Scotland is at it again, conflating the payment made to Mr Bulmer with BT hacking into YES Scotland’s IT system. They of course omitted to mention Leveson and the recent multi million pound investigation into this sort of illegal activity.

  105. ianbrotherhood says:

    @rabb-
    I know this might come across as a bit pretentious and/or sappy, but if I get down I like reading about the Stoics. Don’t know much about them, but have a battered copy of Aurelius’s Meditations which I always kept, through marriages, travel, umpteen house changes, the lot.
    No New-Age mumbo-jumbo, this – just some wise words from a long time ago, when the wretched MSM was but a distant nightmare.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism
    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marcus_aurelius.html

  106. Silverytay says:

    rabb        
             The fact that they are throwing all this shite about just reinforces my belief that all is not going to plan for the no Scotland campaign .
    If they were winning the campaign by the margin they say they are , they would not be reduced to the dirty tricks that they are having to use .
    As the saying goes ,  it’s not over till the fat lady sings and when the fat lady sings on the 18/09/14 then all the abuse and shite we have had to endure will have been worth it .

  107. NorthBrit says:

    @Ian Brotherhood
    You’ve reminded me of this exchange between Jeeves and Bertie Wooster:
    “‘I wonder if I might draw your attention to an observation of the Emperor Marcus Aurelius? He said “Does anything befall you? It is good. It is part of the destiny of the universe ordained for you from the beginning. All that befalls you is part of the great web.'”
     
    I breathed a bit stertorously. ‘He said that, did he?’
     
    ‘Yes, sir.’
     
    ‘Well, you can tell him from me he’s an ass.'”

  108. Twenty14 says:

    I’m hoping this may not be so easy to sweep under the carpet – BT ( telephone co ) have stated that Yes Scotland’s email account has been hacked, this will be very hard for the Police to deny and then they will have to find the source or they will look inept, as the Met Police managed to source the culprits for previous hacking, Police Scotland will only look feeble if they are unable to find the culprits – All wishful thinking on my part
    l

  109. Linda's Back says:

    Contrast the BBC and other media’s lack of coverage of Ian Taylor’s dodgy donations or Frankie Boyle’s death threats or Steven Purcell’s fall from grace with their treatment of a token nominal payment to an academic for an article on the constitution which they now equate with politically motivated hacking of a private email system.

    This is going to rebound on the press and media big time as the BBC and newspapers should now be held to account every time they fail to point out any of their numerous contributors were formerly employed by the Labour Party and this should be made clear so as not to deceive the gullible public in the interests of openness and transparency.

  110. Alba4Eva says:

    I wonder if my Gravatar will work?

    Nope 🙁

  111. Alba4Eva says:

    So once you have set up a Gravatar… how do you get it to show up here?

    http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/4e56806be248884062ed8c7bc754344b.png

  112. Albalha says:

    @McCart
    I posted a comment on the Guardian article you posted but now they, comments, all seem to have vanished, maybe a problem my end, don’t know.
    The more I read about it why is no one questioning the Herald they, after all, knew YES Scotland commissioned the article.
    Anyway hopefully the hacking investigation, which Blair J said had been going on for three days, will drown out this BT nonsense.
     

  113. Lanarkist says:

    Morag, Nail squarely hit regards why MSM outlets are not commissioning pro-independence pieces to balance the scales a little, the people deserve as much.
    Although the media is privately owned, so we are really at war with Global media/ financial corporations, Global Banks and their share holders, Westminster and the Establishment, National political parties and the whole kit and caboodle and not just Better Together. Hardly level pegging. The same question surely as why are polls having to be crowd funded by WOS to provide other perspectives to the situation. Surely MSM media should be supplying a broader brush stroke in the interests of retaining some influence after 18th September 2014.
    The fight is most definitely on but I believe in the wisdom of crowds and it will prevail against the manipulations of those with so much to lose.
    A resounding Yes in yet the referendum is only the sound of the starting gun. The fight will be intense and prolonged as interested parties scrabble for new positions of influence in unfamiliar terrain.
    Lanarkist.

  114. scottish_skier says:

    If they were winning the campaign by the margin they say they are , they would not be reduced to the dirty tricks that they are having to use .

    Of course. People should be enjoying the ride; fascinating to be watching. Things are going pretty much exactly as predicted. No is falling apart.

  115. Gizzit says:

    @Albaha – nope not just you – the Guardian seems to have bottled it – just when it was developing nicely too.

  116. Eddie says:

    There is a problem with our unionist chums when it comes to fair, reasonable and honest debate –
     
    1.  They are not fair in way, shape or form.
     
    2. They are not reasonable in any way, shape or form.
     
    3. Honest?  Don’t make me laugh.

  117. Macart says:

    You guys noticed it too? I was just winding up for a good rant when the comments disappeared in a swirl of pixie dust. 🙂

  118. Thepnr says:

    Albalha says:
    @McCart
     

    I posted a comment on the Guardian article you posted but now they, comments, all seem to have vanished, maybe a problem my end, don’t know.
    No your right, since most were pro-indy and pointing out to the Guardian that they of all the MSM should be looking into the hacking issue rather than a non-news story they have withdrawn the lot.
    Expect them to withdraw the article anytime soon. Really opened my eyes has becoming a supporter of Independence. Fight back in the pubs, at doors and on the streets!

  119. Macart says:

    @Thepnr
     
    They don’t like it up em. Or more accurately the Guardian may not have liked someone holding a mirror up in front of their kisser to see who looked away first. They were the leader in the current hacking scandals, they’ve been the bloody victim of having their own personal democratic rights and freedoms trashed this week. How could they of all titles lead with that headline in the Scotland section?

  120. Albalha says:

    Re Guardian, of course the top line is that UKOK is preparing a complaint for the Scottish Charity regulator, are they having a fechin laugh?
    Charities pay people all the time, dear oh dear. And anyway the Herald knew who commissioned it.
    And to all commenters above who also noticed, in all the time I’ve commented on Cif I’ve never just seen them disappear, you sometimes get ‘Now closed for comments’ or such and the ones already in place remain but not this, vanished en masse.
    Though my comment is still in my profile, most odd.

  121. a supporter says:

    annie says at 5.32 pm
    “Not surprised to see Kate Higgins “not happy” about Yes Scotland paying for article  – she didn’t have much to say about the hacking though.  Anyone  else think she has more in common with the bitter together brigade”
    She also dissed the Wings’ Poll. She and Burdseye are not pro-Independence. I think she is more a person who is  “looking for a job as a proper journalist with the MSM”  going by the amount of creeping she does to it. She could be a false flagger. I’ll be you she and Arajag? are mates.

  122. Macart says:

    @Albahla
     
    Must admit I’ve never seen that happen before. I don’t think anyone made any out of turn accusations, but I’d only read about halfway when the thing disappeared.

  123. a supporter says:

    gordoz says 22 aug 5.50 pm
     
    “What is extremely disappointing is the reaction so far from our opponents who appear to prefer to dabble in manufactured outrage about a perfectly legitimate fee”
     
    C’mon gordoz they did the hacking. Or their partners in anti-democracy in the MSM did.

  124. Gizzit says:

    @Albaha
    @Macart
     
    If you check the story in place now – it has been amended somewhat, (now with more Union bias) and there is a fresh timestamp – effectively “overwriting” the original story and dropping all the comments.
     
    Bet they don’t open comments on this version

  125. Thepnr says:

    The Guardian article in question writer profile:
     
    Severin Carrell isScotland correspondent for the Guardian. He has worked as a home affairs, environment and politics correspondent for the Scotsman and Scotland on Sunday, and as a senior reporter with the Independent and Independent on Sunday
     
    There all in it together!

  126. HandandShrimp says:

    The flailing about of Better Together over this suggests they know damned well who hacked the emails and are in major chaff mode to try and through as much deflection as possible about. Why else would anyone make such a fuss about a such a small fee for a perfectly legitimate article. No one forced the Herald to publish it and Bulmer’s pro-independence is no secret. Why the hell can’t Yes Scotland commission articles. The Scotsman and Telegraph are positively rabid in their anti-independence stance and commission pieces all the time.
     
    There are times when you feel your side have made a mistake and there are times when you feel incensed because the other side are simply two faced lying shits. This is one of those latter moments and there should be no let up in pursuing the hackers. It looks like the stolen emails ended up in Better Together’s hands and if so they are implicated in this.

  127. Albalha says:

    @Mcart
    I pretty much read them all, I probably posted last, now given it involves an ongoing police investigation that ‘may’ be a concern BUT it doesn’t warrant getting rid of them all. Closing the thread fair enough if they’re worried. Maybe someone who engages in Twitter can ask Mr C.

  128. Firestarter says:

    So no comments now on any of the Herald articles by Severin today! Oh dear ……… if anyone had wanted to drop them a line saying, “Hey, Herald …. any chance of giving some evidence of MSM bias against the pro-Indy camp?”, they couldn’t really have come up with anything better or more obvious than this! Dunno who is making the decisions over there, but out of 49 lottery numbers, could they please choose 43 of them and publish … so that I can put a quid on the six they left out? 🙂

  129. rabb says:

    Actually I’ve just had another look at Mags “Vinegar tits” Curran and I’m on it again!
     
    In all seriousness though I was overwhelmed by negativity for a bit. It was scary!
     
    I cannot honestly believe that the media are spinning this whole hacking SCANDAL into a fucking piece of nonsense about someone being paid £100 for a newspaper article.
     
    This has to be the lowest point of the campaign so far for me. I just hope the rest of the public are as wise to it now as I am, if not then we’re fucked with a capital F.

  130. Albalha says:

    @Gizzit
    I don’t suppose you have a copy of the original? Very odd.

  131. Firestarter says:

    Sorry . Guardian, of course ……. not Herald. Apologies.

  132. Albalha says:

    @Gizzit
    Just had a look at the story now in place they’ve actually moved up the YES campaign concerns to the second paragraph, wasn’t there before so I think Severin has had a rethink.

  133. Gizzit says:

    Fraid not Albaha – I’d just posted that Stu’s stalker, @Ergasiophobe, had been tweeting dark hints about a major scandal brewing, and generally being furtive last week, and it all went away.

  134. gillie says:

    So who is this mysterious journalist? Is not time that all the players in this matter are exposed. 

  135. Marcia says:

    Until the internet arrived the general public did not have a public forum available to challenge the creative reporting of the Press or even Broadcasters. All the letters to the newspapers or editors were ignored and binned. Now we do have a medium, although still in its infancy in which we can challenge their reporting. They don’t like their articles to be forensically examined and their biased reporting challenged.   

  136. bunter says:

    The BBCs fav think tank CPPR is riddled with ex Labour, and who pays them and do the BBC explain to the viewer the background of these stalwarts and bastions of truth. Not to mention the BBC itself which is riddled.
    Maybe a wee opportunity for the Rev to do a wee article on these even handed organisations that are a beacon for democracy.

  137. a supporter says:

    scottish skier 7.13 pm

    “If they were winning the campaign by the margin they say they are , they would not be reduced to the dirty tricks that they are having to use .”
    “Of course. People should be enjoying the ride; fascinating to be watching”
    And best of all according to our recent Poll the ordinary punter hasn’t a clue about it or wouldn’t care if he did. This is all idiot to idiot in the MSM and BT.

  138. Thepnr says:

    Macart says: 

    They don’t like it up em.
    Yeah absolutely right, for the next year and a bit I feel I must unleash a torrent of comments on all their articles about Independence. Every newspaper, talk-in and anything else I can find including facebook pages of the likes of BT and the rest that attempt to hold back the truth.
    Never forget how many we  are and at the end of the day if all we supporters just persuade 1 other, then……..the result will be a forgone conclusion.
    For Scotland.

  139. Albalha says:

    @gizzit
    I’m sure some smart techy type can get hold of the old version but it looks to me like Mr C has realised his first draft was bollocks.

  140. bunter says:

    Oh and maybe its time that wee can do a wee reminder about how the BBC in Scotland has censored debate by closing down its bloggs for comment. A little something that we can share worldwide on social media as Wings now has a wider audience than most so called ”quality” publications. Lets do some damage.

  141. Macart says:

    No I can’t see them opening comments on that either now. I don’t think I’ve got the words to accurately describe what I’m thinking about our media at the moment. Simples you can’t trust any of them. McDougall and creatures of his ilk you can just about get your head round their behaviour, its what passes for acceptable behaviour in Westminster politics. That being slander, smear, destroy any win is a good win mind set and to hell with the carnage caused. The media however bent always had enough breadth of voice that you could rely on a few journos offering the alternate pov. Today however is a particular low point for the industry. Democracy just had a bad day at work in the UK.

  142. Albalha says:

    And talking of smart techy types just how easy is it to hack e mail accounts. I’m probably rather naive but it seems to happen all the time, is it really that simple?

  143. gillie says:

    So who is the mysterious journalist at the centre of this matter?

  144. Albalha says:

    @gillie
    Who are you asking about?

  145. a supporter says:

    Albalha says 7.49 pm
    “And talking of smart techy types just how easy is it to hack email accounts. I’m probably rather naive but it seems to happen all the time”
    Very easy if you are even simple computer literate and willing to spend a day or so learning. There’s even a large number of sites on the I’net which will teach you.

  146. M4rkyboy says:

    Who’s the journalist and who’s their source?NewsnetScotland say in their article that they know but wont share!Anyone know?

  147. bunter says:

    Will the Police who are investigating the hacking be the same ones who investigated clr Mathieson twice and found nothing untoward?

  148. Albalha says:

    @supporter
    Even with lots of protection, running Malware every week, Clean up etc….. tsk.

  149. Gfaetheblock says:

    I am a bit confused by the statements above that seem to accept as fact that an email has been hacked.  Surely this is only an accusation, and could the info not have been leaked by a range of sources?  Or have I missed something?

  150. Thepnr says:

    This will be the downfall of the NO campaign. They truly believe that by having control of the media they can direct the flow of the news and skew support in their direction.

    This is very misguided because far too many people with boots on the ground are aware of this and will open the eyes of our yet to be persuaded compatriots despite their propaganda.

    Crowd funding aint seen nothing yet!

  151. Albalha says:

    @Gfaetheblock
    It’s been confirmed by the Police that the Yes campaign account was hacked, according to Blair Jenkins, they’ve been in their offices for three days.

  152. scottish_skier says:

    Gfaetheblock
     
    I am a bit confused by the statements above that seem to accept as fact that an email has been hacked.
     
    I’m just going with what Police Scotland are saying.
     
    https://twitter.com/ScottishPolice/status/370558258408615937
     
    Illegally accessed means what it means, whether someone broke the password or managed to get it somehow from a leak or something.
     
    Looking bad for the pro-union campaign as whether or not it can be linked back to someone, people of course immediately make the assumption. I mean why else would someone do that?

  153. Macart says:

    Yep, British Telecom discovered the email account had been accessed remotely and advised YES to contact the polis.

  154. Macart says:

    Fair to say skier that whoever did it, didn’t have the best interests of the YES campaign at heart. Interesting to see the culprit named, why they did it and who handled the hacked information afterword and for what reasons?

  155. Gfaetheblock says:

    SS – thanks.

  156. Training Day says:

    More than a year out from the referendum, our media have exposed themselves as liars and charlatans en masse. Not one of them emerges with credibility from the last few days, from the suppression of the Wings poll to this manufactured nonsense today.

    We couldn’t have asked for anything better for our cause.

  157. gillie says:

    If NNS know the identity if the journalist then they should expose that person. There is no reason now to prevent disclosure.

  158. Albalha says:

    Just read the Newsnet story ….. the YES campaign knows who the journalist is I wish  they’d go for it and name them and their newspaper, maybe they will once investigations are concluded, I hope so.

  159. rabb says:

    Reports say the attack source was outside the UK.
     
    I say………..Bullshit!
    Who outside the UK is remotely interested in Yes Scotland’s email.
     
     It’s been done INSIDE the UK behind a proxy. We’re not fucking stupid.
     
    I just hope Police Scotland are allowed to investigate it fully without London interference.

  160. john king says:

    “Somebody, probably a journalist, is going to get jailed over this one.”
    Im thinking more like MI5
    isn’t it a bit strange why the MSM were all lined up ready to go when this (non) story came out,  this stinks of a  pre arranged story, the concerted attack sounds more like the start of El Alamein than righteous outrage
      

  161. Baheid says:

    Excuse me if I missed something earlier, been working late & I’m knackard.
    Surely the police know, or can find out, who first made the information public.
    All the police need to do is go down the line of suppliers.
     
    Ken fit a mean ? 🙂

    I’ll get mi coat

  162. big_al says:

    rabb
    I just hope Police Scotland are allowed to investigate it fully without London interference.
     
    No chance

  163. Silverytay says:

    I dont think newsnet can name the reporter or the paper until police investigations are complete .
    Will be interesting to wait and see if this is a step to far for some in the media , who will be the first to discover a backbone and say enough is enough or is that just wishful thinking on my part .

  164. Thepnr says:

    @Baheid
    All the police need to do is go down the line of suppliers.
    Sounds reasonable, though under European law journalists are not required to reveal their sources.

  165. Twenty14 says:

    Don’t think the Police can let this one slip as I’m sure there are enough clever IT people out there who would be able to follow the trail and come up with the culprit and I’m also sure Yes Scotland would have to be provided with all the information and could get a second opinion from elsewhere, if they haven’t done this already

  166. Morag says:

    I still have the Guardian page, with comments, open in my browser.  Does anyone want it saved, and if so how do I do that?

  167. jim mitchell says:

    I would like in all seriousness to mention another aspect of all the dark doings of the NO lot that we are now all to aware off, and no doubt the stuff still to come.
    Lets all of us who are on this side of the debate be grateful that whatever we might consider doing for our country, that we will never sink so low as those who openly demonstrate on a daily basis there hostility not only to Scotland but to the very idea of democracy it self.  If anyone of us had the least doubt about the integrity of our intentions or the justice of our cause, then they must surely have none now.
    The last two lines of the poem for Bannockburn are very apt.
    ‘Come all ye’ the country says
    you win me, who take me most to heart

  168. Albalha says:

    @Morag
    I’d like to see it but not sure how you save it, you could try copying the url, don’t close the original and cut and paste it on another page, click and see if it’s all there, though I’m sure others will have more geek worthy options. I’m no geek at all. 
     

  169. Baheid says:

    Thepnr
    Then the journalist cannot prove she/he had a source at all, so charge she/he with the crime committed.
     

  170. Albalha says:

    @Morag
    Alternatively can you print it?

  171. rabb says:

    big_al says:

    rabb
    I just hope Police Scotland are allowed to investigate it fully without London interference.
     
    No chance
     
    Wishful thinking on my part.

  172. HandandShrimp says:

    Tiresome though BT’s mendacious ways are lets take a moment to laugh and do the poll
     
    http://www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/city-news/509-scotland-may-not-be-welcome-in-the-federation-say-klingons.html

  173. big_al says:

    Morag,
    Print screen key with the page visible on the screen, then paste screendump into paint application and save.
     
    If the comments go on and on then scroll till the comments fill the screen and repeat process as above.
     
    Basically taking a picture of your screen.

  174. ianbrotherhood says:

    Let’s not keep our eyes on ‘the ball’…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahg6qcgoay4
     

  175. Stravaiger says:

    Guardian has a by the numbers Severin Carrell article on this.  Unfortunately it is a Classic Severin so Mr Carrell gets to make all sorts of unsubstantiated statements with no opportunity to counter them BTL.
    Check out the twist in the headline.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/22/yes-scotland-campaign-herald-payment#_methods=onPlusOne%2C_ready%2C_close%2C_open%2C_resizeMe%2C_renderstart%2Concircled%2Conload&id=I0_1377199764937&parent=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com&pfname=&rpctoken=69525235

  176. moose666 says:

    I still have the Guardian page, with comments, open in my browser.  Does anyone want it saved, and if so how do I do that?
    Theres the screenshot saving method – see http://wingsoverscotland.com/unclouding-the-truth/
    For quickly dumping a large amount of text, you can copy and paste it into pastebin (http://pastebin.com/)

  177. lumilumi says:

    Oh dear.
     
    I just watched the clip of Dr Bulmer provided by the BBC international site.
     
    He’s much younger than I thought, I hope his skin is as thick as older academics’. Quite long-haired and – shock, horror – with a beard. Obviously some sort of a subversive. Easy target for the Establishment, some mad Scot nat, right. Right? Never mind his academic credentials in constitutional law… Well, the UK doesn’t really do constitution, does it? I mean, the UK does not have a constitution. Must be the only western democracy that hasn’t, which raises the question: Is the UK a mature, western democracy?
     
    Powerhugs to poor Dr Bulmer during this witchhunt. This is what happens to indy-minded Scots when they put their head above the parapet.
     
    Balanced indy-ref coverage? Aye, right.

  178. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I still have the Guardian page, with comments, open in my browser. Does anyone want it saved, and if so how do I do that?”

    Install archive.is on your bookmark toolbar.

    http://archive.is

    Then all you need to do is click the button and it’ll save a permanent, linkable version of the whole page, including comments.

  179. liz says:

    Rev,I have been following your twitter chat with Sev from the guardian, I am awaiting comments to be open on Sev’s column to post the following.
    The Herald newspaper was aware that Dr Elliot Bulmer had requested a modest payment in order to write an article on the constitution prior to it being published by the newspaper.
    NNS can reveal that Dr Bulmer’s request for a fee was passed on to the newspaper by pro-independence campaign group Yes Scotland, but the newspaper declined.
    According to a source close to the Yes campaign, the pro-independence group, independent of the Herald, then took the decision to foot the academic’s £100 fee themselves.
    Of course this is’ smoke and mirrors’ to deflect from the alleged illegal hacking of Yes Scotland emails.
    If I remember correctly during the debate re phone and email hacking in relation to NOW – the latter was considered to be more serious in terms of legality although I can’t remember why.

  180. Norrie says:

    Elliot Bulmer was in the navy take him over Blair McDougall any day.

  181. rabb says:

    Morag,
    Copy the url, open a new browser window and paste it into the red bar at the top of the site below
     
    http://archive.is/
     
    Check the page once complete to make sure the content is intact.
     
    The page will then be archived for everyone to view
     
     

  182. gillie says:

    NNS: “The Herald newspaper was aware that Dr Elliot Bulmer had requested a modest payment in order to write an article on the constitution prior to it being published by the newspaper.”
     
    But what is the name of the journalist? That is the question that needs to be answered.

  183. HandandShrimp says:

    Severin’s articles are irrelevant and almost all the same, I rarely read them any more. All the action takes place below the line if there is a btl.

  184. Lin Anderson says:

    Kathleen Jamie’s poem for inscription on the Bannockburn statue of Robert the Bruce
    Here lies our land: every airt
    Beneath swift clouds, glad glints of sun,
    Belonging to none but itself.
    We are mere transients, who sing
    Its westlin’ winds and fernie braes,
    Northern lights and siller tides,
    Small folk playing our part.
    ‘Come all ye’

  185. Grant_M says:

    @Morag
     
    You can save the page – indeed almost any web page – to your computer.
    Depending on which browser you are using…
    Chrome; right click on the page, then “Save as”
    Internet Explorer; click on Tools (wee ‘cog’ icon), File, then “Save as…”

  186. ianbrotherhood says:

    All those media ‘experts’ and academics who have avoided participation in the referendum debate must now demonstrate solidarity with Dr Bulmer.
     
    No excuses.

  187. Lin Anderson says:

    The country says
    You win me, who take me most to heart.
     
    Sorry, something went wrong before the last couple of lines were posted, yet they are the most powerful, along with ‘the small folk’ who came over the hill at Bannockburn.

  188. gillie says:

    Here lies our land: every airtBeneath swift clouds, glad glints of sun,Belonging to none but itself.We are mere transients, who singIts westlin’ winds and fernie braes,Northern lights and siller tides,Small folk playing our part.‘Come all ye’
     
    So what does all that mean? It is lost on me.

  189. john king says:

    “This is going to rebound on the press and media big time as the BBC and newspapers should now be held to account every time they fail to point out any of their numerous contributors were formerly employed by the Labour Party and this should be made clear so as not to deceive the gullible public in the interests of openness and transparency.”
    Based on the premise there is someone out there to report it, 
    that’s the trouble, the BT  brigade and the MSM can be as obvious as they like, there’s noone to take them to task 
    the only people who could hold them to account is the ODIHR 
    and they wont get involved unless the UK  government invite them, don’t hold your breath

  190. Albalha says:

    @gillie
    I think you’ve asked this question 3/4 times, maybe you know who it is?
    And to the above others with their options on saving advice to @Morag, what is a ‘print screen key’ a ‘bookmark toolbar’. I just copy, cut and paste but realise I am missing a few tricks here and there.
    Genuinely could there be an idiot’s guide to screen saving, archiving posted somewhere on the site? I think as the months roll on it will be more and more necessary and therefore handy.

  191. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Based on the premise there is someone out there to report it, “

    *waves*

  192. Firestarter says:

    Here’s a thing which has puzzled me for a while now. Not strictly “on-topic” but definitely related. Why is it no-one ever seems to mention the pro vs anti Indy numbers of comments and likes on ALL of the btl comments in all of the papers. To my eyes, it always seems that there are only a few (albeit rabid and prolific) pro-union commenters – yes, we all know who they are! Yet there are MANY more commenting who are in favour of independence? And that’s just those who comment at all. A cursory glance at the “likes”, or “thumbs up” for pro Indy comments always seems to outnumber those against by at least 5 to 1 ……. often many more times than this.
    So how can this be? Either its mainly those who support independence who can actually use a computer, and string together an argument, or the ratio of Yes to No is not quite the 35ish to 35ish (with 30% undecided) that the MSM would have us believe? …….. hmmm.
    Can unionists really not use computers, or are there really just not very many of them?
    Tis a mystery, right enough?
     

  193. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Firestarter
     
    You obviously not seen any of those remarkably jumpy on-line polls at the Scotsman then…

  194. HandandShrimp says:

    I saw somewhere that a study suggested that pro-independence supporters are more active than No supporters by a hefty magnitude. The No vote is effectively passive. Even in monetary support Better Together would be rooked if they relied on donations from Scots in Scotland. They are relying on that passivity and resistance/fear of change. There is no great love of the Union and most Scots feel Scottish first and foremost. Break down that fear of change and the No vote would peel away and either not vote at all or swap to Yes.

  195. Thepnr says:

    @Firestarter
    I just believe the pro-indy supporters are more vociferous and believe in their message. This it what is worrying BT more than anything else.
     
    The Unionist have very little to say that is worth saying so “ordinary” people leave it to the rabid mob to do their talking for them. Pretty soon though after listening to their message the “ordinary” people will be on our side come the referendum.

  196. muttley79 says:

    @gillie
     
    But what is the name of the journalist? That is the question that needs to be answered.
     
    The police are investigating it.  You will not get a name yet.

  197. Lochside says:

    If any ‘undecided’ can’t see the rampant hypocrisy and collusion going on between BT,BBC Scotland and the rest of the yellow press in our dear little province over this latest example of the ‘world turned upside down’ then I can only despair. From  Radio Scotland’s newsdrive Mhairi Stewart’s shocking and smug attack on Blair Jenkins re. the non-issue of payment by Yes Scotland for the Herald article , when any competent and fair journalist knew that the real story is the ‘hacking’ of Yes e-mails, to the trotting out of the usual suspects such as Ming the ‘scruplesless ‘Campbell (how much did he receive for his rent-a-gob?).

    We really are under the heel of a relentlessly deceiving and unholy pack of lying pimps masquerading as a national MSM. A stinking bunch of hyenas snuffing about for more ordure to fling at a principled campaign and screen the Scottish electorate from anything resembling truth or honest discourse. Well, many of us were effectively barred from Newsnet Scotland for demanding direct peaceful action by going on the streets, particularly against the BBC’s incessant No propaganda.Make no mistake, The voice of democracy in this country is being smothered by a concerted campaign emanating from Westminster and its black ops aided and abetted by eager ("Tractor" - Ed)s who would pick a shitey bawbee out of said dunghill with their teeth if it had the Queen’s head on it.

  198. john king says:

    “I dont think newsnet can name the reporter or the paper until police investigations are complete .”
     
    Which should be around, oh I dont know, say September 19th 2014?

  199. Albalha says:

    @Morag
    Any luck with all the saving advice? I’d be interested to see how he changed the article.

  200. Firestarter says:

    “I just believe the pro-indy supporters are more vociferous and believe in their message”
    “The No vote is effectively passive”
    Thanks for the replies. Yes, exactly this …….. but I cant see how this would not extend to referendum day. As has been alluded to many times before, the Yes vote is a hard Yes, while the No vote is soft, and softening. I’m still liking S_Skiers prediction – although almost everyone I come into contact with (90%+) is a “Yes”.

  201. Morag says:

    Guys, I’m concerned that all the saving tools mentioned are set up to save the page from the SERVER, as it now is.  That url now directs to the new version of the article, timed at 18:53 and with no comments showing (not open for comments).
     
    What I have in my browser is the original page timed at 15:08, with 103 comments as the appeared at 6:39.  Can’t be missing many.  I’m very worried that I’ll lose it if I try to save the url though.

  202. john king says:

    rev stu says 

    *waves*

      I didn’t mean to disparage you rev, but the point is we cant get the message out to the general public without a tv channel and or a newspaper which will publish the truth,
     with the best will in the world and hits on this site BT  would die for we still don’t have the critical mass to reach the bulk of the population 
    sorry to be a wet blanket

  203. Firestarter says:

    @Morag
    DO NOT CLOSE YOUR BROWSER
    Open up Microsoft Word, (if you have it) …. create a blank new document.
    Move back to browser so that article is “on-screen”.
    Hit the “Print Screen” button on your keyboard …. (sometimes marked PrtScr or something) ……. up near the scroll lock and page up / page down buttons.
    Move back to Word,  and “paste” (Control -V)
    Screenshot should appear on the page in Word.
    Scroll down and repeat
    (sorry for shouting!)

  204. john king says:

    firestarter says @ 9.02
    Id love to agree with you firestarter but my take on that is that the yes supporters are more likely to go online and voice their opinion that the BT  supporters, but yes its always good to see the the vast bulk of likes are for pro indie comments 🙂

  205. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Nobody in the streets gives a flying f*** about this.
    Better Together are so far up their own arses they have no idea what cuts it anymore. I’m quite happy to watch them dissipating their energies on useless trivialities

  206. The Rough Bounds says:

    To me this whole thing stinks of blind panic by the unionists. I get the feeling that they can see what is happening and they are beginning to thrash around.
    I recommend taking a google at the effects of an ‘Event Horizon’ or ‘Critical Mass (Sociodynamics)’ on people’s thinking.
     
    They know that the people of Scotland are only a hairsbreadth away from swinging massively to the independence cause.
     
    Go to the Edinburgh Rally in September. The effect will be remarkable and the outcome for Scotland’s independence cause unstoppable.

  207. HandandShrimp says:

    Nobody in the streets gives a flying f*** about this.
    Better Together are so far up their own arses they have no idea what cuts it anymore. I’m quite happy to watch them dissipating their energies on useless trivialities
     
    Yes and the moment they get to the fee of a £100 you can see people going WTF? What next? “You mean he gave you a stamp to post that letter with? How very dare he, off with his head!”
     
    If this is all they have to show for risking their credibility (and freedom for some poor sucker who has elected to take one for the team) they really have screwed up big time.

  208. Jon D says:

    @Morag This worked for me following the Rev’s advice
    First, check your Controls (If using chrome;3 horiz lines top RHS) that your bookmarks bar is showing cos that where you have to put the archive button. Right click on 
    http://archive.is 
    and open link in new tab
    On the archive page, drag the wee grey button that says archive.is up onto your bookmark toolbar
    Once it’s on your bookmark bar, access the page in question you wish to save and then click on archive.is button and you should see the page you want to save loading. .

  209. Jon D says:

    Broken link
    Should be 
    http://archive.is/    

  210. Morag says:

    I don’t have Word (spawn of Satan….) but I just did what Firestarter suggested using WordPerfect.  34 pages.  I saved it as a pdf and I’m sending the pdf to RevStu.  His email box is probably falling over.

    Just doing a “save as” only snagged half the comments, and then they just stopped.

    I’m now going to try the archive.is thing.  I have a bad feeling that saves the url from the server and you have to get it before they yank it, but we’ll see….

    ETA: No joy. It saved the new page from the server, not the page in my browser window. I haven’t lost the original though.

  211. Caroline Corfield says:

    OT but was looking through news sniffer website to see what I could see on this matter when I noticed this change of headline and initial emphasis on a stood news story wrt crime and the new single Police authority, which I know was looked at in an earlier article here too, thought you’d be interested. http://www.newssniffer.co.uk/articles/675349/diff/3/4

  212. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    And I’m having a laugh at their attempted attack on police “stop and search”.
    This has backfired big time. Most folk think an increase in “stop and search” is a great idea. 

  213. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    ” I didn’t mean to disparage you rev, but the point is we cant get the message out to the general public without a tv channel and or a newspaper which will publish the truth,”

    We’ve had this discussion already. Our readership is already roughly the same as the number of people who watch Newsnight Scotland. We need to stop being hung up on the idea of the MSM being the only “valid” or effective way to reach people. It’s 2013.

  214. Angus McPhee says:

    Sorry I see the real scandal here being that a paper has failed to pay for content it has used. should the author be grateful for the exposure?
     

  215. a supporter says:

    Albalha says

    “@supporter Even with lots of protection, running Malware every week, Clean up etc….. tsk.”
    No problem. I had all those protections and was still hacked a couple of times. So I decided to join them. Now I’m never hacked.

  216. Scott McCall says:

    Is there no experts that come out on our side unless we pay them?

  217. Dramfineday says:

    @ Lin Anderson
    The country says
    You win me, who take me most to heart.
     
    Sorry, something went wrong before the last couple of lines were posted, yet they are the most powerful, along with ‘the small folk’ who came over the hill at Bannockburn.
    Aye Lin, and it’ll be the small folk coming over the hill – this time to the polling booths – that’ll win it again in 2014.
    A fine stanza and a critical intervention for an exhausted army in 1314. Now, let all the parties once again draw in their little folk, raise up their banners, rattle their pots and pans and win back our independence in 2014.

  218. a supporter says:

     
    Morag at 9.23
    DO NOT SAVE ANYTHING TO YOUR COMPUTER FROM THE URL LINE. Take screen shot by pressing Fn and Printscreen together (the latter usually on same key as ‘Insert’ on the “blue” characters (they are blue on my computer maybe different on yours), then bring up programme Paint and paste into that. Once it’s there it is permanently saved on your computer and from there you can copy or change it to your heart’s content. Print screen prints all that you can see on the screen. There are other more sophisticated ways of doing it but you need to do some downloading and reading first.
     
     

  219. Angus McPhee says:

    “Man Detained after shots reported in Inverness Street” SNP accused
     

  220. Morag says:

    Look, I can do that.  The issue was that this article is 34 pages of that.
     
    Still, done now.

  221. Alastair says:

    If there are any private investigators or REAL journalists out there with time on their hands, the evidence of collusion between elements of the media and the unionist campaign must be gathering, surely?
    Editors or execs from the various Scottish outlets must be in regular contact to achieve this level of co-ordinated response, daily I would have thought. If that is the case then there are people who know this and evidence to back it up, and they won’t all be voting no – If that’s you, consider what not speaking up is doing to your profession in Scotland.
    No doubt all will come out eventually, too late for Scottish journalism perhaps.
    I simply would not have believed anyone telling me that the british state would do what it is doing to subvert democracy on it’s own shores. Naive I guess, but who out there would have believed that?
    The no future campaign wants to win at any cost, The YES Scotland campaign must win at all costs.

  222. Morag says:

    Is there no experts that come out on our side unless we pay them?
     
    Elliott Bulmer is very “out” on our side and not shy about it.  That’s what’s so silly about this.  But he did a piece of work, and he expected that the newspaper which published it would pay him at least a token fee.  They took his work but refused to pay him anything.  He says he judged it best for Yes Scotland to pick up the tab rather than have the naysayers bitching that he was giving his professional services to Yes Scotland for free.

  223. Onzebill says:

    @ Morag WORD PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn’t know that still existed that takes me way back.
    @ Firestarter You uplift my heart noting that the vast majority of people you meet are pro-independence, come the day I think we will need them all

  224. Morag says:

    WordPerfect is going strong.  I upgraded to version 16 earlier this year.  It knocks Word into a cocked hat.  It’s well worth paying actual money for.  You get it back with interest in lowered stress levels.

  225. BillyBigbaws says:

    Scott McCall says:  “Is there no experts that come out on our side unless we pay them?”
     
    The economics expert Professor Gavin McCrone came out on our side some time ago, and he’s a unionist!
     



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