Scottish independence, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


Against all odds

Posted on June 09, 2014 by

The Daily Record carries a story this evening about a man placing a £200,000 bet with William Hill on a No vote in the independence referendum.

“A punter is so sure of a No vote in the Independence referendum he has put a record £200,000 on the result.

The bet equalled the biggest sum wagered on politics in the UK. The revelation came yesterday from bookie William Hill, where the gambler made three hefty bets on the status quo being maintained.

The man, in his 50s, walked into a shop in Glasgow and put £30,000 on the counter, taking odds of 1/5 on a No vote. He then came back later that day and stuck on another £70,000.

And the next day he turned up with another £100,000 in cash, which he stuck on despite the odds shortening to 1/6. If Scots vote to stay in the Union he will win £36,000.”

And readers might be forgiven for finding it a bit familiar.

“A CUSTOMER IN A William Hill Glasgow betting shop has gambled £200,000 – believed to be the largest political bet ever struck – that the outcome of the 2014 Scottish Referendum will be a vote AGAINST Independence.

‘We have never taken a bigger bet than this on any political subject.’ said Hill’s spokesman Graham Sharpe. ‘The man, in his late fifties, with a pronounced Scottish accent, and a stranger to staff, struck one bet of £30,000 at odds of 1/5, then returned to place another, of £70,000 at the same odds, before placing a third, of £100,000 at odds by now shortened to 1/6. He stands to make a total profit of £36,666.'”

That second quote is from the William Hill website, almost exactly a year ago. And when an alert reader spotted it, we were about to dismiss is as one of the weird database quirks that you sometimes see in online newspapers where an old story will occasionally appear to have been printed today unless you look very closely at the dateline, because we clearly remembered the bet being reported widely at the time.

That was until we read this bit in the Record article:

“The revelation came with 100 days to go before the referendum.”

There’s no mistake here. And no innocent confusion by a careless hack lifting the story off the internet without noticing the year either, because the Hills story is dated the 24th of June 2013, and eagle-eyed calendar watchers will of course be aware that it’s currently only the 9th of June this year.

(Hills’ current odds for a No vote have gotten rather more generous since then as the polls have narrowed, with a rather more lucrative 1/4 on offer, which would have netted the punter £50,000 in profit in the event of a No rather than £36,667 had he actually placed it this month – well over a third more.)

Readers can speculate for themselves why the Record has chosen to run what’s obviously an old story in an attempt to make it look like people are putting their money on a No vote. But we’re not taking any bets.

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  1. 10 06 14 14:35

    3/1 Scotland to vote YES – a good bet? | The Political Bookie

192 to “Against all odds”

  1. Cath says:

    Maybe some of the UKs spend on the referendum is going on keeping the odds for a no better than they’d otherwise be, so this is a new injection of cash from somewhere?

  2. Not the only historical revisionism in The Record today. Torcuil Crighton covers himself in glory bemoaning the lack of governments called “Labour” in Ireland post-independence:

    “Ireland did not have the same industrial base as Scotland, and no James Connolly”

    Well, Torcuil, Ireland did have not a James Connolly, but the James Connolly until the British inconveniently shot him in, erm, Ireland for his part in the Easter Rising.

    So much for the historical perspective of these NuLabour Twonks.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/torcuil-crichton-irish-history-shows-3663355

  3. Dcanmore says:

    You know how Better Together likes to regurgitate old aniti-independence fear stories … well, down at the Daily Record …

  4. Doug Daniel says:

    So that’s what Ken McQuarrie’s been doing with the money BBC Scotland was given to make good programmes about the referendum!

  5. Andy smith says:

    Now we know why Neil Lennon resigned..John Reid gambled his transfer chest.

  6. Robert Bryce says:

    There’s no honest mistake. This is deliberate. Most punters wouldn’t have noticed this last year so it’s all too easy to regurgitate this stuff now and pass it off as genuine news.

    It’s like the establishment are trying to plant the seeds of doubt into people’s minds. Who would have thought eh?

    Another disgraceful act from our main stream media.

  7. Better Together St Kilda says:

    Better Together – that’ll be – The Bet To Regret?

  8. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Excellent piece of journalism Rev… Thank You !

  9. Hugh Wallace says:

    Just printing plain out and out lies now.

  10. Croompenstein says:

    When was Malcolm Offord in Glasgow? he must have been in disguise!

  11. Mark G says:

    I was almost hoping one of the redhead papers would come out in support of Yes. Doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

  12. galamcennalath says:

    The Record clearly assumes it’s readers have short memories!

    Wonder if the story was ever true.

  13. david says:

    They also took down the poll and comments they were running, I no longer trust anything the msm put out it was polling at 92% yes earlier

  14. Hugh Wallace says:

    The Record I mean, not Wings! ;)

  15. Castle Rock says:

    That’s a shameful piece of propaganda, bet the BBC are kicking themselves that they never got in first and used it.

  16. DonnieMac says:

    £200,000 may seem like a lot of money but surely the bigger gamble is voting NO!

  17. kininvie says:

    Just printing plain out and out lies now.

    And that’s the point, isn’t it? Cancer, sick children, set-up costs… The No campaign has deliberately decided that, at this point, any connection with truth or facts is irrelevant.

    It’s a two fold strategy – ramp up the fear and waste our time in rebutting the scares.

    Time for Wings to stop being defensive and go on the attack

  18. George Elliott says:

    Do we believe The Record- NO THANK YOU!
    This is why we need a clear out and ALL vote YES!

  19. Seepy says:

    Castle Rock says:
    9 June, 2014 at 11:07 pm
    That’s a shameful piece of propaganda, bet the BBC are kicking themselves that they never got in first and used it.

    Oh, but they will, Castle Rock, they will.

  20. Donald says:

    The Daily Ranger has obviously forgotten that we have the Internet now. And how sticky it is.

  21. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    This is the second time the Record has run this same story in recent weeks. It ran it about six weeks ago as well

  22. Ken500 says:

    Pure and simple it’s a lie. Punters struggle to put more than £100 on a YES vote. Often being refused as the Bookie’s will only accept bets of £100 at a time. So how someone can go into any Bookie’s and put such a large amount in one bet without question, or spreading the risk is inconceivable. It’s a lie. The Bookies managers, actually phone the risk managers who refuse bets of more than £100 at a time. Bets of £500 are refused without spreading the day to day risks. Some ‘ill researched’ junior reporters have obviously no idea how the betting industry works. Telling stories and making it up again. This is an urban myth. A lie.

  23. annanurrahing says:

    I see the STV site is running the same betting story as today’s news. Pity they don’t have any journalists either.

  24. Sinky says:

    Can’t understand how anyone in Scotland has £200,000 as Darling said on TV to-night that we have spent more than we have received for the last 22 years.

  25. K1 says:

    Conniving bastards. They are beyond desperate now. This just proves even more that we are winning.

  26. Alabaman says:

    Rev,
    I think that story has now been “pulled”.

  27. Ken500 says:

    The bet would have had to be covered by a bank debit card or cash. It is just a lie. No Bookies would accept this amount in a single bet. Covered by banking regulations. The bet would have to be hedged over a time period.

  28. Ken MacColl says:

    They lie to you on a regular basis.
    Nothing new at the Daily Wrecker.
    I remember when young Torquil was a bright eyed young socialist working for the WHFP -must be when it all started to go pear-shaped.

  29. Kenny says:

    No legit bookie would accept a bet of £100,000. None. Certainly not in cash, certainly not after two bets equalling the same amount already, certainly not without asking some very serious questions about the source of the cash and the identity of the punter. It just doesn’t happen. Seriously. Try it. Walk in to a bookie tomorrow and ask if you can put that same bet on. And then complain to the gambling authorities and the PCC about this seriously dodgy story.

  30. Dr Ew says:

    The odds have been stacked against us since Day One – but here we are 99 days and counting, still in the running, still making the running.

    Incidentally, a few folk have mentioned hopes for a redtop coming out for Yes. I’d bet on that NOT happening. The Record is in too deep with Labour corruption; come a Yes vote they might as well pack up the presses and call it a day, so expect them to throw every piece of crap they can between now and 18/9 because really they have nothing left to lose, certainly not dignity or journalistic integrity.

    The Sun may well flirt with Yes, in fact I’d lay money Murdoch is teasing Cameron with the thought at this very moment, but he’ll exact a price, perhaps to kill any meaningful action on Leveson – deeply flawed and almost dead in the water anyway – and provide a late swing behind No.

    We have to fight and win this on our own terms, folks. Against all odds indeed. But still running…

  31. Murray McCallum says:

    Oh dear! They should ban booze when they are selecting stories for their publication.

  32. Barney Thomson says:

    What will be William Hill’s reaction to the Daily Rag’s misrepresentation of the current odds?

  33. Intergalactic says:

    What a stupid man. 36k net for 200k is not a good bet.

    I put money on four separate bets: they all cancel each other out so’s that I don’t lose or win money in the event of a no vote (provided the yes vote % is between 40% to 49.99%)… However, because I placed these bets back in November, then if there a yes vote of any percentage plus then I win a lot more money than I placed. Yay!

    That is how to place a bet. You assess the scenario & how odds are likely to change before the event, and only place the bet if you are a) convinced that the odds are favourable b)You are unlikely to lose your bet and c) prepared to lose your bet. This man bust be getting very nervous just now.

    These two betting scenarios are perhaps a symbol for the disparity in intellect between the two campaigns.

  34. Clootie says:

    The Record has just made an arse of itself – again!

    Some junior obviously not authorisd.

  35. bigGpolmont says:

    Only what you would expect of the daily retard.
    Odds on someone is going to get his erse kicked when they find out they have been rumbled! Well done to the alert reader!. Dont bookies need ID before they could take a bet that size to prevent money laundering? .The way these no campaigners spin things it was probably a wee glesca cooncillor wanting to place bet of a couple of ginger bottles.

  36. Holebender says:

    How come if I want to bet on a Yes win the bookies restrict me to a hundred quid, but No bets are unrestricted?

  37. K1 says:

    Archived the stv story: just in case it gets pulled too…apparently stv likes feedback about any inaccuracies in their stories:)

    https://archive.today/92n9g

  38. Haughhead Highlander says:

    Sharpen your minds folks we have this in our grasp!

  39. Thepnr says:

    It’s a shambles is it not. What the fuck have we got to be worried about about when this crap is the best they can come up with.

    They are beyond fear now and into terrified mode, they will keep tripping over their own big feet from now until September. Laugh at them, tell them to their face their talkin shite.

    Have no fear whatsoever cos they are talkin shite. Never miss an opportunity to point this out. This is a battle we must win, we can’t ignore the lies we must expose them.

    Tell people when it’s obvious bullshit, you will never get a better chance than now. They think their lies will win? Fuck them we are fighting back and we will win with the Truth.

  40. heedtracker says:

    Well at least we know Press and Journal front page headline tomorrow. They have BetterTogether socio-paths who refuse to be beaten by anyone in the vote no hysterics racketeering.

  41. Mary Bruce says:

    I have no doubt that Mr Sharpe has put that press release (see previous link) out this weekend as a deliberate attempt to mislead. He has made no attempt to clarify that the bet was a year ago, it reads as if it was last week.

  42. gordoz says:

    More attempts at fixing by MSM ??

    Colin McKay (Radio Clyed / Forth pundit) – on STV Tonight confirms ‘his belief’ in media crap and made up nonsense of ‘pretty consistent’ 60% NO as opposed to 40% YES over the piece. (No narrowing in evidence for him)

    So only one poll counts in town and that seems to be the bloody Ipsos Mori (nothing else counts according to him no Sunday Times ?).

    Basically contradicts FM outright and suggests result will be 60 /40 at end for NO.

    And STV keep using McKay & Ponsonby

    Pretty suggestive they are in cahoots with or supporters of HM Gov ??

    STV very nearly as bad as State Broadcaster at Pacific Quay. Up to their necks in collaboration; appalling.

  43. SquareHaggis says:

    Hate to be the gooseberry but don’t think it should be allowed that people can place bets on such an important matter, it just seems wrong.

  44. msean says:

    So. A yes win it is then. :)

  45. Marcia says:

    When I saw that on David Halliday’s twitter today I thought ‘deja vous’. He had already smelt a rat.

  46. Lets face it, when did the Daily Rag let truth get in the way of lies and deceit?

    It was running an on-line referendum poll tonight and when I looked at it about an hour ago, it was 90% for Yes, 8% for no (yes, eight percent!!) and 2% undecided.
    It will be interesting to see if:
    a) they actually publish the results, and
    b) what negative spin they try to put on it.

    As my old mother continually said, paper takes on anything, and that is certainly true at the Daily Rag.

  47. Chic McGregor says:

    Almost certainly a smaller bookie offloading his risk.

  48. gordoz says:

    Credit where credits due – RE G. Brown

    Well done for stating the bleedin’ obvius re leaders Debate
    ‘hand grenade’

    Man he does love stirring it for Darling … brilliant to watch flipper squirming on Brown’s comments today.

    “Gordon has his opinion; I dont happen to agreee with his opinion, as I almost always never do” A. Darling

    F.U.B&Q

  49. Kenny says:

    O/T – anyone watching our fine national current affairs shows? Do BT only have ONE “grassroots” activist? And is “legitimate concern over jobs at Rosyth” really equivalent to a bungee-jumping pensioner? It’s that kind of sneaky presentation of the issues that can’t be properly quantified that makes me loathe the BBC. They don’t often lie but they frame their entire narrative in ways that support entrenched power structures. Just awful.

  50. Thepnr says:

    You knew, I’m usually positive in my outlook. No doubt that’s why I’m voting Yes.

    What I need to know however is who are these rabid No voters? I want to talk to them but so far haven’t found any.

    I doubt if you would see a Yes supporter putting 200 grand on a Yes not because we may not win but only No supporters can afford to throw that much money away.

  51. Andy C says:

    Re. daily record shit. Wait till the establishment really get going! These bastards will stop at nothing, they have too much to lose, their empire is crumbling before their very eyes, they will get even more desperate…BEWARE!
    Today has been a bit of a turning point for me.
    You can actually see from their eyes and actions they KNOW they are losing, their contrived polls, downright lies etc. have ALL failed.
    I now know we ARE going to win this, but they will have BIG plans to stop it, mark my words, money and power poisons people.

  52. manandboy says:

    Saw Prof. Curtice on TV tonight and had this thought.

    If the UK Gov can control BBC & ITV, together with Radio and the Press,
    why would HM Gov allow the polling companies complete freedom, when polling results form such an important and constant part of any public vote.

    I find it very easy to believe the polls are just part of the propaganda machine at Westminster, and
    that Prof Curtice isn’t what he seems.

  53. JohnDM says:

    Oh goody how much tax is given to Scotland if the bet is won? that’s right feck all! And if they don’t? ALL OF IT!

  54. Andy C says:

    Of course the polls are part of the propoganda machine, the trick is to stay at least one step in front of them!

  55. Andy C says:

    Prof (professional fact twister) Curtice is in their pay, and loves it. How much is he being paid (of YOUR money) per appearance, Simple maths X times Y = a lot!

  56. Andy C says:

    The BBC keep him in a cupboard now!

  57. Jiggsbro says:

    If the UK Gov can control BBC & ITV, together with Radio and the Press

    ‘If’ being the operative word. In practice, they can’t and they don’t. If they could control anything with any level of ability, we would have neither austerity nor a referendum.

  58. Ken500 says:

    William Hill’s are lying. They are trying to encourage Bets on NO, so they make more money, because it will be a YES vote. Total PR propaganda. No wonder the Bookies always win. Pity the poor suckers taken in.

  59. Michael McCabe says:

    There was two bets of £40.000 put on a horse called Australia to win the derby last Saturday. JP Mcmanus horse owner and billionaire is well known for putting large bets on. if you have the money and you want to bet the bookies will oblige. the odds would narrow though. I Hope and Pray he loses his bet. if it is genuine in the first place. Vote Yes.

  60. Adrian B says:

    You will have problems spending over £10,000 cash in any single transaction – something to do with legislation to combat counterfeit money laundering from memory.

  61. Mary Bruce says:

    Ken500: it looks like this time the poor suckers who have been taken in are the Daily Record and STV.

  62. Ken500 says:

    If a punter can’t put £100 (cash or debit card) on YES, without phone calls to risk managers etc. Then refusal. It is totally impossible that a punter can go into a Bookies repeatedly in the same day putting massive amounts if ‘unexplained’ cash on a betting outcome. It just would not happen.

    It’s a PR stunt by William Hill to encourage punters to put on bets on NO and lose their money. William Hill know it is most likely that YES will win, because their risk managers have calculated YES will be the outcome.

  63. manandboy says:

    No Thanks says BT to Independence and self-determination.
    No Thanks to a prosperous and fair society.

    But a big ‘Yes please’ from Better Together to another 5 years of Tory government starting next March.

    ‘Yes Please’ to a minimum of 25 Billion pounds of cuts to services.

    ‘Yes Please’ to another increase in the national Debt.

    ‘Yes please’ to paying £50 million per day interest on the debt. That’s £91,250,000,000 over 5 years.

    That’s £91.25 billion pounds in interest over 5 years to be paid by the UK taxpayer.

    George Osborne can’t pay the interest on the debt
    never mind the debt itself.

    Scotland’s share is 8.4% which is £7,665,000,000.

    Yes Please to £7.665 billion pounds in interest for Scottish Taxpayers

    Yes Please to another 5 years of lying to Scotland about its oil and gas wealth, all of which goes to London.

    Yes Please to a massive increase in the activities of Dart Energy – fracking and drilling everywhere and especially in Scotland so as to extract as much of Scotland’s under soil gas wealth as soon as possible.

    These are just some of the massive, massive costs to Scotland of Better Together.

    Dear Readers, our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will CURSE this generation if a No vote prevails in September.

    The idea that future generations of my offspring
    will HATE me for what I’ve helped pass down to them
    makes me sick to the core.

    NO THANKS – no thanks.

  64. Mary Bruce says:

    Ken500: you must be right. Why on earth would a bookies send out a press release that encourages people to place bets on no if they are genuinely expecting a no vote? The only thing that makes sense is if they are expecting a yes vote.

    Unless, of course, there is something more sinister going on here…

  65. Ken500 says:

    Derek Bateman (accessed with difficulties) ‘What a State’ is interesting.

    John Smith changed the Rules of the Parliamentry Labour Party, (dictatorship) which allowed Blair/Campbell and the cohorts to embark on the illegal war, which has bankrupted Britain. Miliband has changed the Rules again.

    Westminster are now trying to restrict the Chilcott verdict delayed for months.

  66. Oneironaut says:

    Could be going for the sympathy vote…

    “Vote No or you’ll be responsible for this man going hungry after gambling away all his money… Yep, definitely, even though he put the bet on, it’ll be your fault if he loses!”

    I really wouldn’t put it past them. They’ve got nothing left…

  67. The Man in the Jar says:

    Sorry for going OT but this has been bugging me. I need to get this off my chest.

    Along with the rest of the gang I was doing my little bit at the Wings over Scotland stand at Yes in the Park on Saturday.

    Anyway during the afternoon I was speaking to a gentleman at the stand and he informed me that he was an avid reader of “Wings” I asked if he ever commented on the site and was surprised at the look of horror on his face. He was in no doubt whatsoever that his livelihood would be at stake if he got “caught” posting on an indi site.

    It turns out that the gentleman works in a large government facility not so far from Glasgow. Not far enough in the opinion of most Scots. He told me that as far as he knew he was the only Yes supporter in the not so inconsiderable workforce.

    I can draw two conclusions from this. Either numerous otherwise intelligent people (you would hope) actually believe anything that comes out of a certain well fed, salad dodging, proven liar of a Labour MSP`s mouth. That, or as I suspect there is such a climate of fear within the facility that anyone aspiring to a Yes vote had better keep their mouths well and truly shut!

    Why oh why would anyone vote to continue living in a country that has to frighten its people into servitude.?

    If the gentleman concerned reads this then I’m sure that all of us here on wings are right behind you.

    (Also posted on WGD)

  68. Rock says:

    Dr Ew,

    “We have to fight and win this on our own terms, folks. Against all odds indeed. But still running…”

    Only if we win it on our terms, will there be no scope for future blackmailing by the likes of The Sun.

    The Yes campaign is a genuine grass roots campaign.

    Democratically, we will win. But the vote will be rigged.

  69. manandboy says:

    Jiggsbro says:
    10 June, 2014 at 12:54 am

    ‘If’ being the operative word. In practice, they can’t and they don’t.
    __________________________________

    Jiggsbro, in practice they can and they do.

    It’s what The Establishment does when necessary.

  70. James123 says:

    Underneath the piece on the STV website, if you’ve spotted an inaccuracy then email us. Oh the irony, an email sent letting them know what a shower of ***** they are.

  71. Andy C says:

    Off topic. Have a look at usdebtclock.org, then click on ‘world debt clock’ at top of page.
    Note how it says, alongside the union jack, ENGLAND/UK !
    Does that make it official, the UK is known as England in American eyes?
    Apart from that, they haven’t half got the debt under control, haven’t they?
    Let’s get the f— outta this mess, please vote YES…….

  72. Andrew Morton says:

    Check out the main story on the Times front page. Among the ‘ordinary people is Claire Lally who claims to be concerned that her daughter will no longer get the treatment needed after a Yes vote. Clare Lally (correct spelling) is no ordinary person, she has been a Labour Party advisor for two years and knows that this is tosh.

    http://twitter.com/thetimes/status/476140462458146818/photo/1

    My beef is not with Mrs Lally, who seems to be an honourable person with a disabled child, but with those who plant these stories without telling you the truth behind the names. It’s all of a piece with Labour’s approach to party political broadcasts. A recent one featured a disabled person, introduced as a member of the public. However, I recognised her as Pam Duncan, a failed candidate for the Falkirk nomination.

    Labour seem to be incapable of finding real ordinary people.

  73. Andy C says:

    Yes, the unionists are reeking of desperation now.
    They still have nothing to offer but deceit and downright lies.
    There is nothing to offer……

  74. jim watson says:

    BT Inverclyde recycled a story about PAtrick Harvie falling out with the YES Campaign – from over two years ago! Obviously they work on the basis that not everyone will read the actual date or the content of the article…

    Expect more of the same from this bunch of liars, charlatans and opponents of progress…

  75. K1 says:

    I’m writing a wee letter to STV about the statistical improbability of this happening twice in the one year in exactly ths same way. Anyway I trawled about and found so far, two other pieces from last year, from the Herald and a betting blog thing. (Aside, anyone else having difficulty archiving Herald articles?).

    So obviously all the other rags are running with it tommorrow (today now), I found the Scotsman version…they laughably can’t even get their dates straight in their haste to make out that we are getting tanked!

    “The firm also revealed that a Glasgow punter placed a £200,000 bet against independence in July this year, followed by a £50,0000 bet from Edinburgh in September.”

    https://archive.today/OQ2FC#selection-2193.0-2193.162

    It just makes me feel even more strongly that we must be so far ahead at this point, that they have no other options left. This strengthens our hand, we know they are lying about everything.

    I agree TMITheJar, there are many who can’t take the risk to post online. But they are in a booth on the 18th September, alone, like we all will be.

    For the duration of that day, to paraphrase Jim Sillars, we are free to choose the direction of travel we want for everyone who lives here now and in the future. We will have a tantalising taste of authentic democracy, simply becasue every one of us will be making a decision that genuinely counts. We will get what we vote for this time.

    We can relax and put the cross in the box of the only choice that makes sense. This is a movement and it will gain momentum in the lead up to the day. It so far has resulted in unprecedented participation by people from all walks of life across all of our society. Why would we want to put a stop to that? When we put our x in the box, we are saying Yes, let’s continue with this great adventure.

    We are also saying, that we take this seriously because we have considered it all. Which is to say…between us we make this decision. I can’t know all the answers to all the component parts, I won’t let my decision be defined by the bt narrative in that respect. Surely we can trust ourselves enough to know that we will do what is best for ourselves and others. Is that not the freedom we want with this, to make up our own minds about what is important to us and have a governance structure in place that reflects the Sovereignity of ourselves?

    By voting Yes we agree that we wish to take a direction that is more suited to our social/ecomomic growth and prosperity than the one we are leaving behind.

    For those who can’t comment or act because of restrictions of any stripe, but know you are voting Yes. I would say good stuff, it’s good to know your minds’ are free enough not to have bought into the negative narrative. It’s also quite sensible to keep the powder dry till the last moment, when the outflanking from unexpected allies always outsmarts the opponent. :)

  76. fairiefromtheearth says:

    Do people on here not realise MONIES is created through debt,so their will never be enough MONIES to pay off the princaple debt and the intreast. its all a fekking scam wake up to the ponzi scheme.

  77. fairiefromtheearth says:

    so it isent WAR the POOR the PENSIONERS or anything else that has got us into this debt its the system.

  78. fairiefromtheearth says:

    oh and lets have a wee go at Jim Sillars seen him in a debate and a member of the audience asks if we should nationalise the oil industry. Jim Sillars replys NO we are too wee too poor too stupid or words to that effect, actually it was some thing about managment, Greece had 5 tv stations and 22 radio stations that was Goverment owned, after the financial crash the greek goverment tryed to close them saying it was costing 100s millions a year to rub them, but hey that wasent reality they were paying 100s of millions a year in taxes and making 80 million a year. The management walked out and the workers ran the stations for 5 months untill the goverment sent in the stormtroopers to close them down. wake up Jim wake up and i could have been a lot rougher on him rev but Margo was a true independance hero.

  79. donald anderson says:

    The punter did not happen to work for the electoral postal vote administration and work for Glesga Labour Cooncil?

    James Connolly founded the Irish Socialist Republican Party. Like John MacLean, who founded the Scottish Workers Republican Party, both were less that impressed with the Imperial Labour Party who stood and chaired in the House at the news of James Connolly being executed while strapped to a chair.

  80. ian foulds says:

    ‘Thepnr says:

    9 June, 2014 at 11:49 pm

    … they will keep tripping over their own big feet from now until September. Laugh at them, tell them to their face their talkin shite.

    Have no fear whatsoever cos they are talkin shite. Never miss an opportunity to point this out. This is a battle we must win, we can’t ignore the lies we must expose them.

    Tell people when it’s obvious bullshit, you will never get a better chance than now. They think their lies will win? Fuck them we are fighting back and we will win with the Truth.’

    Agree with you 100% but …when we say ‘it’s shite’ we have to say to the (no)sleepwalkers where they can find the proof it is so.

    Being based abroad, I don’t know whether YES Scotland are ramping up to counter the puppets of the State. I hope they do not leave it too late as BT will be continuing and increasing their vileness up to (and beyond – if they win) the 18th

  81. Suzanne says:

    K1 – what an excellent post. Inspiring.

    “For those who can’t comment or act because of restrictions of any stripe, but know you are voting Yes. I would say good stuff, it’s good to know your minds’ are free enough not to have bought into the negative narrative. It’s also quite sensible to keep the powder dry till the last moment, when the outflanking from unexpected allies always outsmarts the opponent. :)”

    This is why polls for this referendum are so unreliable. They don’t factor in that this is not an election but a people’s referendum, and many people have good reason to keep their own counsel for the time being, especially if they’re in government jobs.

    I feel hugely positive and will keep working hard to bring in the Yes votes, but I can feel this in my bones. :-D

  82. Ken500 says:

    To all intents the Oil industry is Nationalised. It is taxed at 80% + 20 Corp tax? NI, tax on workers earnings, tax on dividends, tax on supply chain etc. Must be 95%. There would not be much more to get if it was Nationalisied and it might slow down production. Gas revenues are down because the Gas was wasted. Thatcher cancelled a pipe line wasting the equivalent of £Billions of Gas. It was burnt off but could have been the basis of an Oil Fund.

    Oil production has fallen because of Osbourne/Alexander further tax raid (Budget 2011) of 11% (£2Billion). There is a further tax grab in the pipe line on Supply vessel contraction?, which will
    affect production. While other (foreign) multinational companies tax evade through the City of London £Billions, which could pay off the National debt.

    Once again one rule for Scottish industry, one rule for the City of London which benefits Westminster and London S/E, but discriminates and is unfair. Westminster Politicans tax evading and ibcreasing their vast personal fortunes against the interests of the population of the UK, especially Scotland.

    Helicopters are falling to the ground because of lack of proper UK health and safety guidelines and workers are being killed. Robert Goodwin, (I have been on a helicopter once!) UK minister. Tricia Hayes? UK travel civil servant. UK responsibility. One rule/Law for Scotland, one rule/Law for the rest of the UK. Illegal and unfair. No Inquiry. No responsibility or held to account.

  83. Ken500 says:

    The Bookies have now got so much monies bet on YES vote, that they are putting out PR stories (lies). To get more on a NO vote, to counter act the hit they will take when Scotland votes YES. The risk managers have calculated that Scotland will vote YES.

  84. Ken500 says:

    Scotland is expendable for Westminster, as under the Westminster Parliamentry voting system, Scottish votes do not count. That is why they do what they like to Scotland, even if it is unjust, unequal and unfair. Not an equal Union.

  85. fairiefromtheearth says:

    Ken 500 LOL thanks that was a great laugh cmon man wake up.

  86. Danny says:

    Could this perhaps not be a case of a bookie trying to get some publicity and putting out a press release. Journalism now days is mostly done by press release and written by journalists who are now employed in PR.
    Don’t get me wrong the DR is the most anti Scottish newspaper out there but it will be interesting to see where else this story rears its head.

  87. fairiefromtheearth says:

    Ken500 so the oil companys pay 120% in tax lol cmon lol your joking right. yes after its taken out the ground and processed into petrol or diesel the goverment tax that at 80% oh and oil has thousands of other applications. These big oil companys are making Billions off the north sea. let me give you a wee hint you cant run a buisness at a LOSS.

  88. Macart says:

    When you knowingly print with the intent to misrepresent and mislead, then you’ve lost.

    You’ve lost the right to act as any kind of voice for the people. You’ve lost the right to hold anyone to account. You’ve lost any kind of moral authority you may have had. Today’s press doesn’t speak for me anymore.

  89. Ken500 says:

    @ fairiefromtheearth (keep it simple – non de plume)

    Top o’ the morning to you.

  90. fairiefromtheearth says:

    Ken no thats French to me, i can hardly do one language never mind a ferengi one. lol. be well and heres a wee quote from Martin Luther King jr, our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter. ;)

  91. Ken500 says:

    The Oil industry is taxed at 80% Add on all the rest ie other taxes on the other 20%? Corp. NI tax on oil workers earning 20% – 40%. Tax on the supply chain etc. 95%? No company can run on a loss. That is why production has fallen. Killing the golden goose. Better picking elsewhere.

    Production has fallen leaving Scotland less accured Oil revenues because of the increase taxation from Westminster since 2011Budget. Westminster is taxing the Oil sector out of existence. This from the Con Party of ‘enterprise’ etc. Unlawful, one rule for some, (Scotland) another rule for Westminster.

  92. Ken500 says:

    @ fairiefromtheearth

    Bon Chance, then.

  93. fairiefromtheearth says:

    My plan A for our monies, The Scottish Goverment makes half a million for every man woman and child in Scotland tax it at 50% and everybody over 30 gets an instant payment everybody under that get it on their 30th birthday. Nobody has to sign on pensioners dont have to worry, oh and have yous looked on the back of your Birth Certificates yet? just before yous start arguing with me ;)

  94. fairiefromtheearth says:

    The thing is theirs all the Free energy technology that has been suppressed oil is a relic of a should be bygone age, do you know who Nicla Teslar was? we dont need solar panels windmills or any wave technology their is zero point energy oh that was on a sci fi programme so it must just be sci fi lol wake up their taking the piss. We are slaves and they want it to remain that way even the SNP.

  95. john king says:

    Albamen says
    “I think that story has now been “pulled”.”

    I think your right , because when I clicked in the link tried to and login with facebook, I got a blank screen.

    What I don’t get is WHY the staff would mention the man’s pronounced Scottish accent, IN GLASGOW?
    What was this accent that they felt the need to comment on it? Russ Abbots Scottish accent?”see you jimmy”, or Stanley Baxter maybe, “apunaburrafurramurra”?
    why even mention a Scottish accent in Scotland?

    Thepnr says

    “They are beyond fear now and into terrified mode, they will keep tripping over their own big feet from now until September. Laugh at them, tell them to their face their talkin shite.”

    Here, watch this :)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0UtTxagCrI

    What? I didn’t say it had anything to do with what you said I just said watch this, its for my other friend CameronB (he knows)

    No,
    this ones for you Thepnr
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFLpwRMS00g

  96. Red Squirrel says:

    The self-loathing in the no thanks folks (so worth the focus group revamp btw) is just depressing.

    We strive to create an amazing country yet the best they can manage is no thanks? This must be the worst case of Stockholm syndrome ever – I have to believe it’s curable.

  97. bunter says:

    On Scot Goes Pop, it seems new ICM poll is due, probably for Scotland on Sunday. It seems they have changed the way they have asked the questions again, but have kept the country of birth question.

    I have to say I am uncomfortable about this country of birth stuff as it should not matter.

  98. Zorbathejock says:

    The DR has given me an idea. I’m going to bet 20,000 that Stornoway is in Lewis even though the DR says it’s in Shetland. Is this a safer bet than the vote no one?

  99. john king says:

    ” I have to believe it’s curable.”

    Cumon
    your taking away our one and only pleasure Red Squirrel,
    we have to have someone to laugh at surely? ;)

  100. john king says:

    Besides those people are insular parochial xenophobic twonks, they couldn’t have caught a Syndrome in Stockholm,
    they’ve never been there. :)

  101. John H. says:

    To anyone having trouble getting out of bed in the morning, here’s a wee tip.Get a clock radio and set the station to BBC Scotland.If listening to GMS spouting a torrent of lies in the morning doesn’t get you up, nothing will.

  102. caz-m says:

    BBC Scotland GMS headline story is about airport passenger duty and how it will affect Newcastle Airport.

    (The BBC reporter from Newcastle also mention that “Devo Max was coming down the line” shit, which has to be rebutted.)

    I wouldn’t bother to much about the Goerdies.

    I have worked with many of them and the general feeling is that they give us money to survive, we would end up like Ireland and have to go begging to England when we got into financial trouble, we would need to go running to them if we needed their armed forces because Scotland wouldn’t have any and so on.

    I couldn’t give a shit about Newcastle Airport.

    One good thing to come out of this story is that it will highlight that Scotland will abolish APD.

    Not enough voters know of this, so when you are trying to convince an undecided voter of the benefits on Independence, mention the ADP story to them.

    PS Can’t find Newcastle ADP story on BBC Scotland website.

  103. John H. says:

    caz-m. It was the Devo Max line which finally made me throw off the duvet this morning. Quite an effective incentive to get out of bed though.

  104. Grouse Beater says:

    Are you supporting Englan in the cup?
    Why would I support England?
    It’s our team.
    No. It’s your team, not mine.
    But it’s team GB.
    No. You’re badgering me into supporting England.
    Bit racist, no?
    No. Not even half-racist. Are you going to tell me you hope the Commonwealth Games are not taken over by politicians – Scotland gains nothing from them – but meanwhile I better support England the real “home team,” or else? Go F- yourself!

  105. paul cooper says:

    I have only recently looked at website and enjoy it and will be interested to post comments as the campaign heats up.I was a shop steward ,convenor steward .branch secretary and sat on the trades council over the years locally and in the past been a member of SNP.

    I am not surprised by the British state trying so hard to hold on to Scotland Ive never heard of them letting go of anything which they profit from without a fight and lets face it who wants to KILL THE GOLDEN GOOSE!

    I was at a YES campaign in Greenock with Dennis Canavan last night and it was interesting .

    During the course of the night it was good too see and hear Scots talking their country up ,from praising Mr. Salmond up for giving this opportunity to us.

    I know this is going to be a tough fight but im sure God willing we can win so as they say to the barricades/streets and lets really push advertise talk everywhere make as much noise as we can this is our moment!

  106. fergie35 says:

    Manipulation.
    Sums up the No camp and BBC Better Together

  107. Duabi_Scot says:

    Has anyone verified the story? That is, has Graham Sharp been asked to verify the story on behalf of William Hills?

    If as has been mentioned, it was an old story, then the editor of the Record should be liable for a sharp cuff to the back of the head from the owners, and the journalist docked a days pay! :-)

  108. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    The BBC and the No camp

    The co-colabos or is it cocolabos?

  109. Tam Jardine says:

    Expect more of the same from the bookies in the run in – they must be looking at the potential loss from Yes vote and feeling a bit queasy. Generating more yes bets is just burying them further so it will be stories of this kind all the way.

    For the public such vast sums denote certainty, maybe even some kind of insider information like on a share deal as if that were possible here. Hell mend them: if they want to try and profit from our process of self determination they can take the consequences.

    I dug about briefly trying to find the unionism I expected from the top at William Hill – who knew the CEO was from Edinburgh and not ill – disposed to Indy… guess money is takes priority

  110. caz-m says:

    Morning John H, welcome to the world according to BBC Scotland.

    The world of fantasy and lies.

    Hope to see you on Sunday 29th June 2pm outside Pacific Quay.

  111. Tam Jardine says:

    … guess money takes priority

  112. Chic McGregor says:

    @Manandboy 1:17

    Excellent! That’s more like it.

  113. GraemeMenzies says:

    Re the Newcastle story.

    Isnt this a rubbish attempt at trying to coerse us into feeling sorry for our near neighbours in North England? More attempts to get us indulge in self loathing from GBC Scotlandshire

    As far as Im concerned, England is a different country and it’s up to the voters there to make their feelings known regards their own situation.

  114. Ken500 says:

    The Bookies are manipulating the ‘betting’ market. That’s illegal.

    Just like PR companies are making public monies out of trying to manipulate the Vote. Gerrymandering. That’s illegal.

    Anything goes in tax evading UK under illegal Westminster rules. Westminster tax evaders operating against the public interest, above the Law.

    Osbourne/Alexander and associates are be trying to manipulate/downgrade the Scottish Oil sector to achieve a NO vote and preserve their raid on public monies making them vast tax evaded personal fortunes against the public interest. Eg the Royal Mail sell off (Pension Fund), the Ghost train to nowhere, with no business case HS2. A white elephant of public monies support to enrich Westminster tax evaders and their associates.

  115. Dorothy Devine says:

    This mannie that bet all this money in one day – would the fraud squad not be very interested from a money laundering point of view?

    The banks always ask if you are removing over 10 thousand pounds why ,what for etc.( I’ve only done it once – there’s nae mair left!)

  116. Ken500 says:

    The North of England return Con/Dems MP’s. Their votes do count. Clegg/Blair represented Northern constituencies. It was the English working class who voted for Thatcher, thereby condoning her attacks on the UK population especially in the North.

  117. Harry says:

    I know someone who placed £1,000 on a Yes vote @ 5/1 in Ladbrokes in Hamilton last November. No problem placing it seemingly.

  118. Luigi says:

    Oh dear, BT MSM! What a shambles.

    They had a real opportunity to make things very difficult for Scottish democracy, but they have blown it big time. To say they have over-egged the pudding is an obvious understatement. Well, that’s what happens when you make too many cuts and rely on incompetent journalists and reporters.

    Even staunch NO voters are becoming increasingly annoyed with this nonsense. The rest of us are livid.

  119. caz-m says:

    James Kelly Labour MSP being interviewed on GMS this morning regarding the Labour Party position on airport passenger duty.

    If anyone else heard it, can you please put into words in plain English what he just said. What is it that Scottish Labour want from APD. They want it devolved but they want to keep it the same as the rest of the UK. What?

  120. ronnie anderson says:

    @ca_m nae complaints fae NewCastle Airport when Scots had to

    travel down to NC to go on holiday ,as it is cheaper.

    J Kelly MSP SLP on GMS discussing the APD, that man needs

    a lie doon in a rubber room wie a rubber calculator.

  121. Tam Jardine says:

    Graeme Menzies

    Just found out about the risk to Newcastle Airport revenues if there’s a Yes vote. That’s what I would call a ‘gamechanger’. All my badges are going in the bin and I’m cutting up my SNP membership card. You guys want to screw with the prosperity of Newcastle – I can’t be a part of that.

    The North of England has benefitted so much from being part of the United Kingdom – Westminster was good enough to manage it’s decline. Once the oil runs out they will be there to do the same for us!

    (painful sound of a story attempting to start but cutting out)

  122. Krackerman says:

    Looks like they’ve pulled the story from the record website – well done for catching the liars red handed :)

    On an interesting note have a look at the Most Read subject headers on the Record site… says it all about their view of Scotland…

    CANCER…
    CRIME
    SEX CRIME
    HIBERIAN FC (??!!)
    IRN BRU…

    4 of those stories involve sport – of which 3 are football linked… Gawd help us..

  123. John H. says:

    Hi caz-m. I’m not sure about the effectiveness of these demonstrations at Pacific Quay, because they don’t get reported. I’m becoming so annoyed at the BBC that I think I’ll come down anyway on the 29th.See you there.

  124. I went onto the Record Poll last night and Yes was at 90%

  125. Training Day says:

    Hmm. Regurgitating this story, combined with battering us repeatedly with the mantra that No are well ahead in the polls, really starts to smack of the probability that the vote will be rigged via the ‘good offices’ of the Electoral Commission (fronted in Scotland by an ex BBC placeman). How many ‘extra’ ballots was it they’re printing?

    And when you see how far the lies and distortions of the No camp have sunk, it is becoming increasingly difficult to accept any kind of No vote as legitimate. Not a happy place to be, but here we are.

  126. Croompenstein says:

    @manandboy@1.17 – Excellent post, copied for future use

  127. Camz says:

    Darling’s last chance of making money from politics?

  128. westie7 says:

    P&J poll closed sharpish yesterday, site now showing results to follow. Never known an online poll where you click a button, to need time to “process” results!

  129. bunter says:

    Surely GMS are not going negative on reducing APD. Jeezo, that could transform our airports, cheapen holidays, increase jobs, tourism and business.

    For me, getting rid of APD is a huge benefit of YES so the BBC surely will have something positive to say eh?

  130. Ken500 says:

    More divide and rule lie.

    Newcastle along with Scotland does not benefit from a Westminster centralised transport system, which is centralised on the City of London. Heathrow etc. Westminster (Publuc monies) subsidises BA (private Spanish/UK co) terminal spaces, which makes flights from London cheaper by comparison with other airports in the UK but is designed to benefit London S/E. However it adds to the London/smog congestion etc and makes journeys from other parts of the UK more expensive and time consuming. Anywhere but Heathrow.

    Scotland and Newcastle are both being discriminated against by Westminster centralist economic and transport policies, to benefit London S/E and Westminster tax evading MP’s.

  131. Camz says:

    @Colin Mc

    Just took the poll, and a screendump:

    http://i.imgbox.com/MqhtFsyu.png

    Yes: 90%
    No: 9%

    DK: 2%

    Ahh, per chance to dream!

  132. Croompenstein says:

    Watched Flipper on Scotland 2014 and he really is a disrespectful bastard, he calls the FM Salmond. I have never heard the FM just use Darling when referring to Flipper.

  133. PickledOnionSupper says:

    Oi, caz-m, some of us Geordies are here and voting yes, you know! ;-) (Geordies for Independence say ‘Wey AYE man’!)

    I think independence’ll make things better for Scotland AND the rest of the UK, we musn’t let the media divide us into wee groups fighting amongst each other.

  134. Croompenstein says:

    @Camz – LOL that is just brilliant, however that would be the true result if it weren’t for the biased MSM and doom politicians like Flipper

  135. ronnie anderson says:

    @pickled onion supper, nice to see theres some Northerners

    can see thru the bullshit,good on you mate.

  136. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The story will not have come from the bookies. It will have been pushed by Better Together or the Record.

    The odds on a NO vote at William Hills have not changed,. They would have been radically altered had Hills received a £200,000 bet.

    There is a code of conduct published in the Record. I would suggest a lot of complaints referencing it should be made.
    As I pointed out earlier this is the THIRD time the Record has printed this same story.

  137. caz-m says:

    John H
    Anything that highlights BBC Scotland lies and bias can only be a good thing. RT tv reported the last one, so that went worldwide and it is expected that the turnout for the next one will be a lot bigger.

    You also get to have a Sunday afternoon by the River Clyde.
    What more could you ask for.

  138. eezy says:

    I read this at the time.
    Aimed to lengthen the odds and it works.

  139. caz-m says:

    Mornin Ronnie Anderson,

    That Labour MSP, James Kelly, is a prize idiot, isn’t he.

    Ronnie, did you find a Pipe Band for Sun 29th June Pacific Quay.

    Has anyone got a spare Pipe Band that they are not using on the above date. We need to hear the skirl of the pipes as we go into battle against the rotten BBC Scotland.

  140. ronnie anderson says:

    BBC demo & dont forget to bring your TV Licences & threatning

    letters to give them back,I still have some more to hand back

    saves on postage.

  141. Alec K says:

    Apologies if someone else mentioned this but it seems STV have quoted WH Media Projects Director Graham Sharpe as follows:

    “It is unusual to take such a big money bet at this stage, with 100 days to go, usually people will wait to see if somebody says something stupid as campaigns step up before committing to such a large bet.”

    Seems to me that either Mr Sharpe is a little confused about the timing of this bet or STV have mis-quoted him, or just made it up.

  142. caz-m says:

    PickledOnionSupper
    Oi, caz-m, some of us Geordies are here and voting yes, you know!

    If you are from Newcastle, you must have heard the same shit that I have heard from Goerdies. Too wee, too poor, too stupid, is the General attitude from Newcastle and the NE of England.

    So I don’t think it’s me you should be talking to, it’s your ignorant, ill informed, fellow Goerdies.

  143. ronnie anderson says:

    @Caz_m morning to you to get a young lad with a boom boom box

    in his car an a disc,& I have the Scotland the Brave Album,

    51st Highland Division/Denny Dunipace Pipe Band.

  144. ronnie anderson says:

    @Caz_m, an if we need any more,we cause a riot.

    Glasgow City Police Pipe Band,with Mounted Division would

    that suit you.

  145. Jim Thomson says:

    Pretty safe to go O/T this far down the comments I reckon ;-)

    The Aye Talks lot are now posting their videos shot at the Pearce Institute in Govan on the 1st of June.

    They are always worth a watch. Normally around 10 mins but, a few of the later speakers (still to be added) did run over a wee bit with their obvious enthusiasm.

    Enjoy – and, more importantly, spread the link(s) around to the DinnaeKens.

    http://www.ayetalks.net/

  146. Tamson says:

    The time-warp tall tale is a standard Daily Record tactic. Back in the 80s and 90s they regularly regurgitated Connery’s misogynistic remarks from the 60s. Only, presenting them as if he had said it yesterday.

  147. Sorry its O/T but one of the main stories in the Scotsman has relly got me angry!

    The headline is. :’scottish independence:one in seven face poverty’and is about the rise in poverty predicted for Scotland in the next 10 years or so.

    Read the article and find out that it is under the union these figures were calculated,NOT independence!

    I have to say that i find this newspaper,or RAG as it is now,is getting worse!

    Lies,lies and more lies!
    By the way i havent bought the paper for months now,and Hubby followed suit recently.Hope its sales fall rapidly….

  148. Jim Thomson says:

    @Caz m 8:47

    Have you got a rough time for that interview? If so, I’ll hunt it down and post the link with a time to scroll to.

  149. donald anderson says:

    (Lord) Harold Wilson ordered the North Sea to be pounded and get the oil out as quickly as possible for fear of the SNP winning elections and declaring Independence. By products, such as gas, were deliberately burnt off lighting up the NE coast where it would have cost the equivalent of a mortgage to have gas installed in your house.

    Labour Tame Unions cooperated in this rape, ignoring safety guidelines that the Gulf of Mexico and other regions demanded, even better pensions and environmental guarantees that that all but Scotland and Nigeria takes for granted.

    The British oil mogul that recently came out against Independence was chased out of Russia and barred for four years for insulting their intelligence by trying to score the type of deals he got away with in Scotland.

  150. caz-m says:

    Jim Thomson

    James Kelly Labour MSP interview on GMS this morning was approx. 8.40am.

    I think Scottish Labour invented the language known as “Double Dutch”.

  151. caz-m says:

    Ronnie

    The Police Pipe Band would do, they could go inside an arrest all those crooks runnin BBC Scotland.

  152. bookie from hell says:

    When you watch the big meets,racing channel 4,so & so,presenter says punter has had 10k,20k,its a load of kak
    .
    When a large bet comes in,bookie will lay off the risk by buying bets from other bookmakers, acting as market makers and profiting from the event regardless of the outcome.

    The early prices,they offer off track are limited to £20 per customer normaly.lucky if they last 30 mins.

    If you do certain types of bets and have a winning account,your account is closed(no reason has to be given)

    Its true punter don’t have to declare winnings or pay tax,but any any cash bet over £10k would need to be reported to HMRC as part of the anti money laundering rules.

    this bet is a porky pie

  153. shadsy says:

    It’s not in any way implausible that someone could get this much money on. Ladbrokes also took a £200k bet on NO last year, possibly from the same person, although I have no way of saying for certain.

  154. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “It’s not in any way implausible that someone could get this much money on. Ladbrokes also took a £200k bet on NO last year, possibly from the same person, although I have no way of saying for certain.”

    Um, you MAY want to read the article again, and pay a bit more attention this time :D

  155. shadsy says:

    No, I’m aware that this particular bet didn’t happen this week. But I was responding to the comments saying that it was totally impossible in any case.

  156. Barontorc says:

    So let me get this right. A guy walks into William Hills and places 30k on NO at 1/5. He returns the same day and sticks on another 70k at 1/5. Not done and flushed with betting excitement he goes the next day and sticks on another 100k with the same bookmaker and he gets 1/6.

    No questions are asked of his money laundering skills, or how big a hole is left under his bed with all that cash now gone and the dates are moved on a year because at that time a NO vote was actually then around 1/11.

    Methinks William Hill’s reputation is a bit prejudiced with all this nonsense and they should be officially doing a LEGO move; like who attributed the ‘100 day’ quote to them, or have STV mis-quoted their Director Graham Sharpe?

  157. bookie from hell says:

    For the return punter is getting,not worth the value against a HMRC red flag

  158. clochoderic says:

    Rev. Stu

    Shadsy is the main guy for setting political odds for Ladbrokes the bookies. He is a regular commentator both ATL and BTL on Political Betting.

    It may be worthwhile contacting him to get a full analysis of his take on this incident and indeed on the referendum betting market in general.

  159. manandboy says:

    ‘NO THANKS’ to the Referendum.

    Let’s start with a question to help us understand what ‘No Thanks’ really means.
    (Advice – skip to the last bit if you don’t do big numbers)

    Q. Who owns the UK national debt, or, who do we pay the £50 million a day interest on the debt to ?

    A.http://www.debtbombshell.com/uk-national-debt.htm

    You’ll find most of the answers at this link even though they are not up to date. For more just Google ‘who owns Britain’s debt’. BTW it’s really very very scary. Really.

    BUT to the point. When a bank lends money, it makes money. In interest. Obvious. And the more the Bank lends, like in a mortgage, the more money it makes – and the more money it can pay it’s executives and shareholders etc etc.

    Did you really think Margaret Thatcher introduced the right to buy your Council house for your benefit. No. It was to get you to borrow money from a bank or Building Society through a mortgage. Thatcher’s friends in the banking industry found overnight a huge surge in their profits as the mortgage interest began to flow in ever increasing amounts into their pockets. Boom time.

    The more debt a bank owns the wealthier it becomes as long as the people who borrowed the money can afford to make the interest payments.

    But the banks got greedy and lent money to many people who couldn’t afford to make the payments after a while. Then the banks invented Mortgage Backed Securities and before we knew it, the Crash of 2008 happened from which most of us are still trying to recover. All except Margaret’s friends, the owners of the banking and financial services industry.

    Is the UK Gov worried about the UK’s debt. No.

    Is George Osborne in a tizzy about paying the debt down? No

    Why? Because his pals from Eton own the debt and are making £50 million pounds a day on it. Now, in anyone’s language, that is nice money, if you can get it.
    The problem is – we don’t get it. We OWE THE DEBT, we DON’T OWN THE DEBT.

    So, all those Tory voting people in the City of London, who OWN the UK national debt (around 1.5 trillion pounds) are making a 50 million pound fortune every day.

    IT IS NOT IN THEIR INTEREST THAT THE DEBT BE PAID DOWN BY THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER. QUITE THE OPPOSITE.

    The very very BAD NEWS is of course that the 50 million a day has to be paid by the UK taxpayer. Which currently works out at very close to £2000 a year in tax for every worker in the UK. Just to pay the interest.
    The rich can afford this. The ‘ordinary’ working population cannot.

    The UK national debt of approx. 1.5 trillion pounds sterling is only a disaster for the taxpayer.
    In contrast, it is boom time for the people who ‘own’ the City of London.

    Make no mistake. The rich are not just getting richer while the poor get poorer. It’s much worse than that because the speed at which the rich are making fortunes has got much much faster since the Crash in 2008 (presided over by Gordon Brown & Alistair Darling).

    Remember, the 1.5 trillion is only the UK National debt run up by the Government.
    If you add up all the debt owed by individuals and companies, than you are looking at probably around 4 to 6 trillion pounds of debt in the UK.

    All that money attracts interest for the people who OWN the debt. You could be looking at a figure of 200 million pounds a DAY. I won’t do an annual figure because it’ll hurt your brain.(whisper it, it’s £73,000,000,000 pa. I actually prefer the daily £200 million as that shocks me while the £73 billion pa leaves me completely unfeeling and almost completely unable to grasp what a sum that size means.)

    Ok we’re at the stage, thankfully, where we ask – what’s the real point of all this.

    The answer is that in the Referendum,we here in Scotland can detach ourselves from this nightmare, still with whatever debt burden there might be after the divi of UK assets, but not trapped in a crushing debt slavery for the rest of our lives for generations to come.

    Brown & Darling, Cameron & Osborne, Lamont & Milliband, all want us to say No Thanks to escaping the nightmare through Independence.
    They want us all together paying the greedy super rich occupants of the City of London up to £200 million a day to keep them in opulence while ever increasing numbers find themselves in a queue outside a food bank.
    And they’re not content with that. They also want all of Scotland’s super abundant natural resources. You know the stuff, oil, gas, water, renewable energy – valued in trillions there’s so much of it. Opulence on top of opulence fuelled by rampaging greed.

    The future isn’t Better Together.

    The future is POVERTY. Abject, cruel, crushing poverty.

    ENDLESS POVERTY IN SCOTLAND AS PART OF THE UNITED KINGDOM.

    Please wake up, don’t panic, don’t get upset. Just vote Yes.

    And if you can, get as many others to do the same.

    And you know what. Today the unionist slogan is ‘No Thanks’.

    Someday, if the UK goes on like this, the slogan will be ‘Euthanise the poor’.

  160. JWil says:

    More scurrilous reporting from Torquil the poseur?

  161. JWil says:

    Say naw to no! Vote YES.

  162. Relugas says:

    I see the Herald is now reporting that it was a £400k bet at William Hill, on top of £200k earlier in the year.

    Next thing you know it will be up to £2.7 billion

  163. Macandroid says:

    If you can cycle in a velodrome, what do you get up to in a syndrome?

  164. One of the reasons I’m on this site every day, is, of course, the Rev. But more than that, it’s because of the information I can glean from comments such as the one from manandboy. Great stuff. Keep it coming people.

  165. kininvie says:

    @manandboy

    If we take Scotland’s share of the interest payments on that massive debt (£billion 4.02 in 2012/13) this is the equivalent of 186,593 newly-qualified Scottish primary school teachers handing over their entire salary. If you lined up all these teachers a metre apart, the line would stretch from Edinburgh almost to Inverness.

    (In fact there are only 51,078 teachers – including secondary teachers and specialists – in Scotland, so you would be unlikely to be able to form such a line in practice – but you see my point….)

  166. bookie from hell says:

    William hill as form

    They claimed they took 500k on big bucks when it won at aintree at 1/5 approx.

    the other books called it bullsh 1t

  167. Dal Riata says:

    The whole £200,000-bet-for-No story stank the first time – walking in and planting 30K on the desk, having the bet accepted, and then returning twice more, first with 70K, then with 100K… And no questions asked! Oh, and he had a “Scottish accent”… – and it stinks even more on its second regurgitation.

    Probably – though can’t be sure, but – the whole ‘story’ is probably an out and out lie. And with the lie we get the gleeful reportage of it by a corrupt media.

    “Print and be damned” has never been so obvious in the UK’s MSM as it is now. The Leveson Enquiry… what was the point of that again?

  168. kininvie says:

    @manandboy

    Oh, and about 30% of the debt is owned by overseas investors. Which means that 30% of our interest payments isn’t even staying in the UK.

  169. Kenny Campbell says:

    Herald now quoting it as 400K bet in London…….

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/man-bets-record-400000-on-a-no-vote-in-september.1402397434

    Who in their right mind places a 400K bet…..smells fishy

  170. bookie from hell says:

    bet prob hedged,so punter isn’t losing any money either way,but papers only report one side of bet

  171. Brotyboy says:

    bet prob hedged,so punter isn’t losing any money either way,but papers only report one side of bet

    Indeed, he could have placed £30k on Yes at whatever the odds were last year, around 10/1? If Yes wins he makes £100k, if No wins he makes £10k. Guess who he actually wants to win?

  172. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    I understand that some people bet on both sides of a binary choice at different times as the odds change, so that no matter which side wins they come out on top. Some people on Wings have said they’ve done that.

    But six-figure sums? It’s hard to see how that’s part of a straightforward betting system. Is it a way to make sure a losing bet on Yes is covered? But don’t you actually have to have the money? What sort of person gambles in six-figure sums?

  173. Brotyboy says:

    @Morag Graham Kerr

    I’m not saying this happened, simply backing up what bookie from hell is saying.

    It could (conditional tense) be a hedge of a bet placed last year of around £30k on Yes. The second part of the bet, the hedge, locks in the profit and makes the overall bet a no-lose bet, so the size of the stake on the second part is immaterial.

  174. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Punters aren’t buying this rubbish – the odds would’ve shifted since yesterday, and the changes are so negligible they’re not worth getting in a froth about:

    http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome

  175. Brotyboy says:

    To put it another way; he has just greened up.

  176. bookie from hell says:

    could be a holding account,pooled,in reality many smaller bets

  177. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Brotyboy, that’s what I was wondering, just finding the amount a bit staggering for someone just to have lying around. Maybe as BFH says, it’s a syndicate.

    I was more incredulous about the alleged £200,000 put on a year ago. That didn’t seem like a hedge to me – I’m struggling to know where the other side of that could have been.

  178. bookie from hell says:

    when bookies say punter(many a time its others bookies pooled money)

  179. bookie from hell says:

    when dettori has a 7 timer ascot,after the 6th race ladbrokes were phoning independent bookmakers placing huge bets 250k+ to cover possible losses

    the last horse went from 14/1 to 2/1 fav

    it won easy—many independent bookies went bust

  180. Edward says:

    I see another ‘punter’ has placed a bet, strangely again with William Hill’s this time for £ 400,000
    But this time the punter was in surrey and again it was for a No vote

  181. donald anderson says:

    No need to insult the Dutch. It’s called Britspeak.

  182. Brotyboy says:

    Dutching; do you want to take this, BFH? ;-)

  183. john king says:

    JohnH says
    ” I’m not sure about the effectiveness of these demonstrations at Pacific Quay, because they don’t get reported. ”

    Yes they do, the get reported to the people who are told not to report it, it didn’t happen got that?
    those reporters have souls they cant stand and watch the crowds outside the building and knowing the crowd are protesting about them and not feel the shame that is being heaped on them!

  184. GraemeMenzies says:

    OT,

    Lost track of where we are with Blood and Soil interview.

    Its now online at New Statesman (although struggling to create a link I’m afraid)

  185. bookie from hell says:

    yeah dutch

    need over 500k

  186. Chic McGregor says:

    Edward

    As I mentioned before, it is probably just the offlaying of risk.

    That was common practice. If a bookie with limited capital back up is in an area where there is a large imbalance in the betting, and therefore a risk that, with a wrong result, they could go bust, they will off lay the risk.

    e.g. A bookie in darkest Englandshire is likely to be getting an unrealistic proportion of No betting and will feel predisposed to off lay it.

    Similarly a bookie in say the likes of Larkhall/South Glasgow.

    The same thing will undoubtedly be happening in disproportionately Yes supporting areas but will, for political reasons, go unreported.

    Back in the days when odds were locally calculated based on actual local betting levels, those with a bit of savy, made a nice little earner out of betting on an Old Firm team in bookies in the towns they played away in. On average they got unrealistically optimistic odds for the home team there.

    I have personally seen local bookies come in and off lay a large amount of risk on the big boys.

    Of course that can work both ways and the chain bookies are just as adroit at doing the same thing themselves these days.

    Moral is, big amounts bet are not usually simply just one punter taking a personal risk.

  187. Rusan Kax says:

    I noticed that a £400,000 bet has been placed on a NO vote – they must have money to burn down there!

    I cant believe that JK Rowling has done? This surely must be more lies from the bbc?!

    With regards to the odds, this is what the guardian writes:

    “William Hill, which has already had a £200,000 bet placed on a no vote, said it had now cut its odds against a yes vote to 1/5 and slightly lengthened the odds of a yes vote from 11/4 to 10/3.”

    I’m going to put on a Yes bet!

  188. Ken500 says:

    The Daily Record is lying.

    There is no way a punter is walking in off the street placing massive bets. Putting on over £100
    quid on YES requires phone calls to risk managers and often refusal. Ie come back daily and put
    on daily amounts. This ‘story’ is the biggest load of pish ever.

    The other curious thing is as the gap has narrowed the bookies odds on YES has increased. October 2013 YES 9/2. Now 6/1. In Scotland the majority bets are on YES. One bookies, Schoolhill, Aberdeen 100% on YES. It looks like the further North the higher bets on YES.That probably gives a better indication of the vote.

    They are now cutting the odds to 10/3? Finally waking up to what is going on in Scotland.

    Looks like the south of the border (less interest – non voters) bets on No. Scotland higher bets on YES and the further North the higher the YES. It’s a UK north/south divide. It could be a PR story to try and get more on No to balance the books.

  189. donald anderson says:

    A few weeks ago I placed a £10 bet on a YES win at 4-1.

    I am not a gambler and the last time I placed a bet was on Winnie Ewing winning the Hamilton by election.



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