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Stupid To The Grave

Posted on June 30, 2024 by

I was going to write this article yesterday, but 2024’s miserable damp squib of a summer unexpectedly delivered a beautiful day – a perfect 20C of unbroken sunshine with a refreshing slight breeze – so I went for a nice walk instead.

Rather than my usual bird-feeding and bear-patrolling beat along the river and canal, I headed off on what used to be my standard summer stroll: up the long steep hill to Beckford’s Tower and its associated cemetery with stunning views over the city.

I’ll scatter a few pics from the walk throughout this feature, as otherwise I’m afraid it’s going to be a bit depressing and angering.

Because it’s about this.

The tweets referred to some newly-published findings from the delayed and botched 2022 census, which revealed that just 19,990 people in Scotland claimed they “were trans or had a trans history”.

But even that figure is highly misleading. Almost half the people included in that total identified as “non-binary”, an undefined term which is in no way interchangeable with “transgender” (because “trans” means changing from one thing to the other, whereas these people might always have considered themselves to be something neither male nor female), and almost a quarter gave equally undefined “Other” answers.

If you also strip out “trans men” – about who nobody is very bothered because they don’t present a rape threat to women or have any advantage in sport – there are just 3,090 self-identified “trans women” in Scotland, which is 0.057% of the population, or one person in every 1,754.

(These numbers, incidentally, now that they’re finally public, make the sexual offending stats for transwomen much much worse than previously thought.)

And that microscopic fragment of a sliver of a rounding error of a section of a minority is what the independence movement has been destroyed for.

Those 3090 people were NOT being persecuted. There are almost no recorded cases of violence against trans people in Scotland – none at all since 2019 – and not a single one has ever been murdered. In the UK there is approximately one murder of a trans person a year – with no evidence that any of those had been killed for being trans – which means that trans people are in fact, per capita, much, much LESS likely to be murdered than the general populace.

(Which is consistent with the statistics worldwide.)

Nor is there a scrap of evidence that they were being discriminated against in any way. Trans people in Scotland have every single human and legal right that everyone else does, plus some extra ones denied to the rest of us (under the Equality Act and the Hate Crime Act). Yet there are NO recorded cases, as far as we know, of a successful prosecution or tribunal claim showing that a trans person has ever been the victim of unlawful discrimination in Scotland.

Trans activists complain endlessly about (among very, very, very many other things) the process of obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate as if nobody else ever had to fill in any forms in their lives, or wait for elective/cosmetic medical treatment.

But very few have any interest in getting a GRC anyway, even after the cost was reduced by the UK government from £140 to £5. Only a tiny minority ever apply, even though it’s a straightforward process and 97% of applications are successful. Even prominent hardcore transactivists admit it.

There’s nothing remotely “tortuous” or “degrading” about it. All you need to do is prove you are what you say you are – the same thing you have to do if you want a Railcard.

(And yet nobody wrings their hands and wails and waves flags and goes on protest marches and has special months for all the people who aren’t eligible for Railcards, who are unquestionably being materially discriminated against and disadvantaged. Why should a poor 31-year-old have to pay 50% more for the same train ticket than a rich 29-year-old?)

The figures below (the most recent available) are for the whole UK, so we can safely assume we’re talking about maybe 30 or so applications a year in Scotland, which is just 0.5% of the supposed trans population. 199 out of every 200 trans people don’t bother trying to get a GRC.

(Extra-alert readers will have calculated that the desperate urgency of both Scottish and UK parties to “simplify” the process of obtaining a GRC is therefore being pursued and prioritised for the benefit of just 0.00059% of the people of the country – or one person in every 169,492 – which apparently has no more pressing matters to address.)

In short, then, there was no problem to solve regarding trans people in Scotland. Yet as a result of the Scottish Government’s deranged obsession with pandering to the transactivist lobby in search of Stonewall Points and invites to fancy London galas for Nicola Sturgeon and her “travelling squad of Scottish lesbians”, a ruinous trail of utter destruction has been wrought.

The SNP’s commanding position in Scottish politics has been destroyed, trashing a 26-point lead in the polls and turning it into a pretty consistent Labour one of 4-10 points in just over a year and a half since the party and its Green allies forced the Gender Recognition Reform Bill through the Parliament.

The SNP itself has been ripped in two, both ideologically and numerically, with 60,000 members out of 125,000 leaving in the last few years. (And even those dogged souls who are left are still thoroughly scunnered.)

(It’s also an odds-on bet that its Westminster representation will be slashed by at least the same proportion next week.)

The credibility of the Scottish Parliament itself was undermined when the GRR was found to have been so badly drafted that it was illegal, gifting the UK government an unprecedented chance to flex its muscles and slap Holyrood down, all while enjoying the support of the majority of the Scottish electorate.

Millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money, and untold amounts of political capital, have been squandered on toxic organisations and lobby groups, all to no avail.

The rights and safety of women, children, rape victims, gay people and more have been grotesquely undermined to the point where they no longer exist. With the sole exception of Beira’s Place, there is nowhere in Scotland that women can go and be assured that they will be safe from the presence of men.

In 2021, independence was supported by 60% of Scottish women. By 2022, after Sturgeon embarked on her GRR crusade and the Scottish Government first started insisting that “trans women are women”, that number had plummeted to just 43%.

And what’s been achieved for trans people by all this carnage? Not a single, solitary thing. The GRR is not law. The Scottish Government abandoned its attempt to redefine “woman” after another court defeat. The Hate Crime Act – created to pander to transactivists who thought it’d give them the right to endlessly torment feminists with vexatious reports – made a laughing stock of the government and a cult folk hero out of the Hate Monster, while the police have quietly filed the avalanche of complaints in the bin. To our knowledge, not one prosecution has been brought.

And as a side effect of the tin-eared, pig-headed and arrogant way these policies have been (unsuccessfully) pursued, trans people – along with the unlucky LGB people they forcibly attached themselves to – have found themselves the subject of growing hostility and resentment, to the point that governments across the world are starting to remove and restrict their existing rights, let alone giving them any new ones.

Labour are now talking – though only a fool would trust them – about rowing back on their previous “trans-inclusive” policies in the wake of the Cass Review (which they’ve also pledged to implement in full).

Awkwardly, they’ve even explicitly cited the Scottish Government’s shambolic attempts at railroading self-ID through as a key factor in their turn against the policy.

The contemptuous dismissals of people like Hunter about a “culture war” and a “moral panic” play incredibly badly with a public reading horrific newspaper stories about obviously dangerous rapists and paedophiles like Isla Bryson and Andrew Miller and Tiffany Scott and David Smith and Katie Dolatowski.

(Breaking news: it’s actually fine to panic at the thought of finding yourself in what you thought was a female-only space with a rapist.)

The louder and more stridently the Scottish Government’s transactivist lobby has shouted about “trans rights”, the more public support for them has nosedived. The more voters find out about gender ideology the less they like it. “Gender recognition” used to be supported by a margin of 40 points, now it’s opposed by a margin of 30, and nobody wants transwomen anywhere near women’s spaces.

And yet even now they still won’t be told and won’t learn.

The SNP, then, have hurt trans people almost as much as they’ve hurt everyone else – the wider electorate and themselves – in their blind pursuit of the unfortunate mentally-disturbed 0.37% of the Scottish population that doesn’t know what sex it is. They’ve alienated and insulted half the country, made the tiny number of trans people in it the object of bitter loathing, and dynamited their own rule, for absolutely nothing.

Because for all the sound and fury, the list of things they’ve actually achieved for the “trans community” is a blank sheet of paper.

(Although ironically, their unwilling, ham-fisted failure to make it easier for vulnerable and confused children to be sterilised and mutilated and have their entire future lives destroyed might well turn out to be the greatest service those children were ever done. The Scottish Government does not consider people to be fully “adult” until they’re 25, so the majority of Scotland’s “trans” people are by that definition children.)

One thing’s for sure, though: there certainly ARE people who “should be taking a long hard look at themselves” today, as a grim reckoning at the ballot box looms for the decade of incompetent, hubristic misrule by the SNP that has and will set the cause of Scottish independence back for a generation, undoing 90 years of hard digging and blocking any foreseeable path to the party’s supposed goal.

To find them, Mhairi Hunter would be well advised to start with a mirror.

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  1. 01 07 24 10:37

    The Demise of the SNP and For What. – Independence not Bust

0 to “Stupid To The Grave”

  1. Wulls

    Mhairi indeed should be investing in a mirror although the source of funding might be problematic since she got hoofed from her council position.

  2. duncanio

    Well at least the SNP can rely on that proportion of the 0.44% ‘transperson’ (and 0.057% ‘transwomen’) population that isn’t voting queer/Green next Thursday.

  3. Cuilean

    So angry. I want the SNP to lose all their Westminster seats. Then I want to watch all the woke SNP Sturgeon era rats fight each other in their attempts to jump off their sinking ship first. That’s where the only panic will be.

  4. Morag

    I remember back in 2017, M(h)airi Hunter seemed a bit unsure about her support for self-ID. A group of us on Twitter (including Stu) tried to explain things to her and get her to see it from the woman’s perspective. She said she was going to find out more and think about it.

    She came back a couple of days later thoroughly entrenched in the trans rhetoric. Probably been talking to Nicola and/or her entournage. Transwomen are the most marginalised and oppressed people on the face of the earth. They are all mild, harmless souls who wouldn’t say boo to a goose, but they’re being prevented from getting a mortgage because they don’t have the right birth certificate. They’re being subjected to hideously humiliating treatment at the hands of these evil gatekeeping doctors. Their comfort is the most important thing there is, and how could women be so selfish as not to want them in their single-sex spaces?

    That was it. She never wavered thereafter. My mistake was thinking she was her mother (whom I knew slightly). Allison would have had a fit, frankly.

    The humiliating and degrading treatment meted out to disabled people by those “gatekeeping” benefits doesn’t seem to be something that worries her at all though. Unacceptable delays in cancer treatment are just one of those things, but if a man has to wait a couple of weeks to have his dick cut off, it’s an outrage.

    I didn’t leave the SNP until 2021. What took me so long?

  5. Neil Elphinstone

    I thought nasty blood suffers like her didn’t have a reflection?

  6. Confused

    having narcissistic psychoses, then attempting to enforce your delusions by law onto the rest of the public, is at least … ballsy; the paedos jumping in and getting the gubmint to hand them access to the kids is more worrying.

    overall, I find the Millie Tant v Frank n Furter war, to be pretty hilarious; the great work of the tranny was in making feminists look -sane- which is quite an achievement

    now the wimmin are asking the men to help them; not so strong and independent after all. Feminism, it’s all great, until things get a little bit difficult.

  7. Anton Decadent

    Do repost a point I made yesterday, in the Herald earlier this week Neil McKay had an article claiming that no one cares about the queering of children or immigration and used a polling agency as proof of this. When I looked this polling agency up I found that between 2022 and now what I believe was the co founder of the organisation had removed from his CV on the website that he used to be Head Of Education at Stonewall with the aim of infiltrating schools for Stonewall.

    Take absolutely nothing at face value.

  8. Ruby Sunday

    Great photos. I’ve always enjoyed your photo documentaries.

    How about doing one every time Holiday Boy has a break.

    You’ve missed ‘The Shining Rapist’ from your list.

    The Shining Rapist fuckin’ hates Isla Bryson for being a fake trans he’s ruined it for everyone else.

    Isla Bryson is now totally into men and is having a ball in prison.

    The Shining Rapist needs fake breasts but Isla doesn’t he’s got the real thing now.

  9. Andy Ellis

    An excellent if thoroughly depressing tour d’horizon of how a movement shot itself in both feet. It reinforces the necessity for the movement as a whole to commit itself not just to cutting the SNP down to size, or wresting control back from the overweening influence of a single party, but to the total destruction of the SNP.

    Half measures won’t do.

    The SNP is no longer fit for purpose, nor would it be worth the effort of saving even if it were possible. The fact a few good folk have chosen, hope against hope, to try and change the party from within now looks just like delusional misplaced loyalty.

    It’s incumbent on those of us who now detest the SNP as much as – or indeed more – than we abhor British nationalists to ensure an extinction level event overtakes the SNP over the next few years. If we don’t do that, we can kiss goodbye to independence for a decade.

  10. AnneDon

    @ Confused 3.33pm

    You’re quite the sexist little gobshite, aren’t you?

  11. Ruby Sunday

    Oh bloody hell ‘confused’ is now playing the victim card.

    This woman is no longer asking you men for help. You men can fuck off and greet in the corner about how badly treated you’ve been and how woman deserve all they’re getting.

    I imagining ‘confused’ saying

    They should never have gotten so uppity and stopped mothering me. I need them to make my tea, wash my clothes and general take care of all my needs.

    Boo hoo!

  12. Stevie

    THE best thing for indy is the SNP kicked out of power and forced to become a smart political instrument again as opposed to the rubbish we see before us. Alternatively Alba becomes an effective indy party but that’s 15 years down the line, if at all : Salmond’s resignation allowed this Sturgeon created farce to arrise (you have wonder she has a closet to come out of.

  13. John C

    Almost half the people included in that total identified as “non-binary”, an undefined term which is not interchangeable with “transgender”

    Thing is with ‘non-binary’ is how quickly it crumbles in actual practise. There’s several cases of ‘non-binary’ actors complaining they don’t get roles because they’re not ‘seen as women’ which is exactly what they want. It’s a complete nonsense that like anything under the TQ+++ umbrella is based on complete rubbish.

    Nor is there a scrap of evidence that they were being discriminated against in any way. Trans people in Scotland have every single human and legal right that everyone else does, plus some extra ones denied to the rest of us (under the Equality Act and the Hate Crime Act). Yet there are NO recorded cases we’re aware of of any successful prosecutions or tribunal cases showing that a trans person has ever been the victim of unlawful discrimination in Scotland.

    Trans people suffer from some hatred but it seems to be rooted in homophobia as many people still equate trans with LGB, specifically homosexuality even though a large chunk of trans identifying males are straight men who get off on wearing women’s clothes and invading women’s spaces.

    The problem is a lot of people when they think of ‘Trans people’ think of some poor wee girl suffering from mental illness rather than a hulking AGP smirking as he enters a womens toilet. I’m sure many knows the latter is happening all too often but if they engage their brain on that then their support for Trans causes starts to crumble.

    The rights and safety of women, children, rape victims, gay people and more have been grotesquely undermined to the point where they no longer exist.

    Add to that list the disabled. Trans ideology has always co-opted disability for oppression points and sympathy but over the last few years ‘trans-abled’ has morphed from a mental illness where people want to remove body parts to become disabled to something where disablity is seen as just another identity people can switch on and off like a kettle.

    There’s already been examples in the SNP with people ‘identifying’ as disabled while last week Angela Raynor said candidates in Labour ‘identified as disabled’ which is exceptionally concerning. If Labour go for self-ID which I suspect they will then disabled spaces are going to be full of able-bodied people. Many disabled people now complain about the actions of trans identifying men especially in disabled toilets. See the repulsive actions of Heather Herbet for example.

    Mhairi Hunter is, like many a trans activist, a moral and intellectual vaccuum. She’s supporting a cause because that’s what she’s supposed to do & her mates like Sturgeon (who supports the cause for many a rumoured reason) do as well. She has (to quote David Tennant) skin in the game, and for her to admit there’s an issue means that unpicking one thread means it all falls apart hence this blind defence. Same with Tennant, he doesn’t want to deal with the fact he’s putting his child on a path of mental illness, social isolation & medicalisation for life so like a lot of people with trans kids he goes on the attack as he did.

    Here were are though some 15 years into when Trans really took off & some five or six since TRAs really colonised organisations like Stonewall & the political parties and they’ve done it for a frighteningly small number of people who, in the UK at least, have the same rights as anyone else. What they want are special privileges, and of course, to surpress women & medicalise children without any dissent.

  14. Onlooker

    Oh, come on, this wasn’t all for nothing. The nutcase Sturgeon got her revenge on the country she hates, for growing up closeted in the homophobic hell that Scotland tragically was during the 80s. Because that truly is why all this madness has happened.

    Mission accomplished, Sturgeon. How the fuck you can look your ugly, bloated, vain, hateful, wannabe-‘writer’ self in the mirror is beyond me. You did more damage to this country than your supposed nemesis Thatcher ever did. Fuck you and your national sabotage forever. Hope it was worth it. It certainly was for your foreign handlers.

  15. Ruby Sunday

    I’m predicting confused saying to AnneDon

    Sexist darlin’ yeah I’m very sexy!

    I’ve been here before I’ve already done the ‘sex wars’ hence my ability to predict men’s actions.

    There is a possibility that ‘confused’ is winding us up.

    Even if he is or isn’t just wind him up in return.

    Bloody menbabies! Some of them have even taken to wearing babygrows & nappies.

  16. Confused

    There’s been about 3 days worth of “penelope pitstop” r4pe fantasies from, otherwise solid posters, and the male posters, too polite to really oppose the crass and sweeping generalisations, divorced from any facts.

    The feminists have been bashing men for decades (in the west) with little comeback – and now they want us to “white knight” for them against the trannies. Boo hoo – you are all strong and independent, so DIY.

    For a while I thought Sandy Brindley was posting here under a fake handle.

  17. Johnny

    Next on the timeline of “not learning from the mistakes of other political parties” for the SNP is “never, or at least not for fifteen years, bouncing back in all those seats you lost because you conclude that it was everyone else’s fault that you lost them and that the electorate was just wrong and awful, and thus you don’t need to self-reflect and revise your offering”.

  18. Peter Macbeastie

    Haven’t been on this site for a number of years, not because I disagree with most of what you’re saying, but more because I’ve been so utterly fecking scunnered with Scottish politics in general; for anyone who just wants an independent country watching the SNP utterly fuck up the enormous bounce from 2015 onwards for stupid, uneccesary, unpopular niche policies, doubtless encouraged by the ideologues of the Greens, it’s bound to be depressing. And SNP loyalists are incredibly defensive if you have the inclination to simply ask them a very simple question. ‘What exactly are the SNP doing about independence, beyond using it as a rallying call at elections and then forgetting about it for five years?’ Do they say what the SNP is doing? Of course not, don’t be silly. They demand to know what you would do, and when you simply point out that this is not answering the question they get indignant and just repeat what they want you to say. And then they block you, when they eventually get the point that they’re not going to get what they want.

    Just like every Unionist troll since 2012. I know, I’ve been blocked by so many little Brit trolls over the years I know what the behaviour looks like. It’s just depressing to see it from independence supporters who trust the SNP to actually push for independence, and cannot admit the problem with the SNP pushing it is that the SNP haven’t got a fucking clue how to push it. Because the courts said everything they wanted to do was illegal, they’ve got no idea what to do. Well, fucking do it anyway. It’s easier to beg forgiveness than ask for permission.

    These details are just emphasising the utter nonsense of the GRA amendments. Utterly killing their own support for a tiny minority who in actual fact have all the same bastarding rights as everyone else anyway.

    We’re further away from independence now than we’ve been in fucking years, all for utterly unessecary ideological tinkering. And a competent leadership would have taken the Westminster blocking it and used it as an illustration of Westminster trampling on Scottish democracy but they didn’t even fucking manage that obvious trick.

    I don’t know if anyone with common sense is left in the SNP, but I think a party coup must be on the cards at some point. It speaks volumes that Humza Yousaf was deemed a problem when he’s so much part of the SNP establishment he’s probably got SNP branded kecks.


    In this case it is wise to judge the book by the cover.

  20. John C

    She came back a couple of days later thoroughly entrenched in the trans rhetoric. Probably been talking to Nicola and/or her entournage. Transwomen are the most marginalised and oppressed people on the face of the earth. They are all mild, harmless souls who wouldn’t say boo to a goose, but they’re being prevented from getting a mortgage because they don’t have the right birth certificate. They’re being subjected to hideously humiliating treatment at the hands of these evil gatekeeping doctors. Their comfort is the most important thing there is, and how could women be so selfish as not to want them in their single-sex spaces?

    This doesn’t come as a shock. We live in a time when you can suss out people’s politics on the supposed left based on everything based on one or two things like Trans ideology, the environment, the Gaza war, etc. Same with the right, as soon as they say immigration you can guess how everything else falls in line after that.

    People have this odd thing now where they’re not intellecually curious enough to work things out for themselves so they see what their peer group thinks and just adopts it wholesale without thought. Which is why Hunter gets herself in thse messes of thinking. She’s not got a clue what she’s talking about as that’d involve thinking, going up against what her mates think & maybe working it out for herself.

  21. Craig

    My clan, My Mother, Gran & Aunts were unaware of what was going on in the last few years because NOTHING was ever reported in the media.

    It took wings to allow me to tell them what was happening and they were horrified, that a political party they voted for most of their lives championing “Independence” was in reality, since Alex Salmond resigned, a vehicle for the most extremist section of society that wanted to erode the meaning of “Woman” & “Female”.

    MY mother couldn’t quite grasp at why I said that the SNP must be desytroyed and she was concerned that if a Unionist party got in power at HolyRood, what would happen to prescription charges and free travel for those that benefit from these things.

    I said…I wouldn’t worry too much as it would be an unpopular choice for any Unionist party apart from the Tories to rid of these benefits that we have.

    The main thing is, all of them now refuse to support the SNP and said they will vote for ALBA party (We do have an ALBA Candidate standing in our constituency).

    The trouble is, Who do you vote for if you want rid of your SNP MP? Especially the one in Perth and other areas where they are on a shoogly peg?

    Either way, Those Trans-Actvists have gone too far with their stamping of feet and squealing for attention, It’s time to clamp down on them and regain some sort of normality again in politics.

    Oh, one last thing….FUCK YOU Nicola Sturgeon, FUCK YOU and FUCK YOU, for any SNP members that remain loyal to the party and you membership is a sign of approval of what the SNP are doing and lastly FUCKIN FUCK YOU to all SNP MP’s that settled at Westminster, the ultimate betrayal of failing to “Stand up for Scotland”.

    Peace Everyone.

  22. Campbell Clansman

    Remember how, just a little while ago, the Alba/Salvo/ISP Moonhowlers were talking about a “plebiscite election” wherein they’d label voting for a (nominally) Indy Party as “proof” that Scottish voters had voted for Independence?

    You don’t hear much about that from the Moonhowlers any more. Perhaps because the latest poll show that pro-Union parties are at 65% of the vote, with the pro-Indy Parties (almost all the SNP, and whether they are pro-Indy or not is open to debate) at 35%.

    The Moonhowlers reject elections being plebiscites when it appears they’ll lose the elections.

    The Moonhowlers may be 70% of the commenters on WoS, but the Moonhowlers’ favorite parties (Alba, ISP) are at 1%, barely outpolling the Monster Raving Loony Party.

  23. sam

    Labour party policy.

    Labour will allow teaching of gender re-assignment in schools at an “appropriate” age.

    It will also ban conversion therapy. I wonder if “conversion therapy” might catch the specialist treatment given by psychiatrists to those suffering gender dysphoria.

    Achieving a GRC would be made more speedy but would require a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

    It would be mad but possible that psychiatrists ( a greater number of specialists in the field might be needed) that a diagnosis could be made but treatment banned.

  24. Andy Ellis

    @Campbell Clansman 4.37pm

    You seem a tad confused, which is never much of a stretch for yoons and British nationalist in general of course. Usually finding water in their wellies would be enough of a challenge. It’s not plebiscitary elections that gets the moon howlers dander up, it’s non-parliamentary, “cunning plans for indy” using legal rather than political leger de main that gets them in to a frothing lather.

    You patently haven’t been paying attention to the howls!

    These elections are a matter of indifference to most of us, because they are for Westminster, because we already know the British nationalists won’t grant a S30 order for indyref2, and because it matters not whether the SNP get all the seats or only (hopefully?) a handful, as nowt of consequence will happen at Westminster.

    With the referendum route stymied, only plebiscitary elections promise a route to indy in the medium term. Short term we’re already fucked by the SNP’s incompetence and hostility to the plebiscitary principle, and it’s lack of courage in pushing for independence rather than incremental, milquetoast devolutionary progress which accepts a practical unionist veto on our self determination.

    Whether pro plebiscitary elections make progress after the SNP’s imminent gubbing on 4th July remains to be seen. It’s hard to believe that the party is going to come through unscathed and be able to re-establish its leadership position in the movement.

    The problem you and other unionists have is that the headline figures for support for independence remain pretty consistent, even as the figures for the SNP are tanking. It doesn’t really matter how many MP’s the SNP gain in Westminster when that ceases to be the arbiter of our self determination.

  25. Ian McCubbin

    All thus is clear facts now on trans case wrecking SNP along with devolutionist grifters.
    Independence is shaker than ever now.
    It will take a voting miracle to have enough ALba and ISP elected to begin the positive road for 2026.

  26. Nancy Somerville

    Excellent article, as usual. It’s not good though that the backlash which seems to be gaining traction will include LGB folk, just because the TQ+ etc latched on to them (with no justification, imo). Re the census figures, what do you think having a ‘trans history’ means? You used to think you were trans? You transitioned medically and now regret it? In any case, confusion about what it means (never mind confusion about what trans and non-binary actually mean) produces results that are meaningless.

  27. KT Lorimer

    It will take a voting miracle to not have enough SNP votes so that they implode and can be fit for purpose in 2026 – if not then give up.

  28. Ruby Sunday

    The feminists have been bashing men for decades (in the west) with little comeback – and now they want us to “white knight” for them against the trannies

    The trannies are men or did you miss that fact? From where I’m standing these men have been give a really good deal by feminists. No bashing going on there.

    What about the women who aren’t feminists are they worth “white knighting” for?

    Although I a bit confused what you think women have been asking you for or what you think you can do.

    Can you explain more about the “penelope pitstop” r4pe fantasies?

  29. sam

    The success of Roz Adams in her case against Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre does not yet seem to have resulted in the dismissal of Wadhwa.

    Wadhwa was found to be the hand behind the treatment of Ms Adams, causing her to resign and claim constructive dismissal.

    The naivety, lack of training and inexperience of the ERCC board was also a factor.

    As far as I know, no new Board has been appointed and few will want the responsibility. Until a Board is appointed I don’t expect Wadhwa to get his jotters.

    Brindley has tried to distance herself from ERCC.

  30. holymacmoses

    It was an appropriate place to ‘compose’ this excellent article Mr Wings. You will know all about William Beckford, not doubt:-). If you haven’t read Vathek, I wouldn’t bother unless you have absolutely nothing else to think about.
    Over three million on the Tower? Have you been inside? Is it worth a visit?
    My feelings closest to hate (I don’t hate anyone) are towards Nicola Sturgeon for her destruction of Mr Salmond and all his work.
    It is apparent that, although he is still the best orator, still the staunchest warrior for Scotland and still a very able politician, the Scottish public cannot afford to consider how wrong they were and how wicked the whole debacle was. It is easier for them to try and ignore Mr Salmond and level derision at the idea of his name – the coward’s wat out.

  31. JGedd

    There’s a nasty whiff of ‘incel’ coming from Confused’s women-hating comments, apparently cheering on women being denied safe spaces – not to mention children.

    His misogynistic gloating reveals more about himself than he actually might realise.

  32. President Xiden

    The SNP should change their name to STP , the Scottish Transhumanism Party since that better reflects their priorities.

  33. Garrion

    It’s almost as if, and bear with me here, that the trans “issue” was used as a trojan horse to completely destroy not just the SNP, bur Scottish politics.

  34. Mac

    Hatuey, who were you telling on the previous thread that the nintendo switch was still worth buying in 2024?

  35. Confused

    JGedd – nice bit of white knighting, go check that the lassies are alright down the Govanhill park. And don’t be racist now, either. WOS is not really the forum for that kind of virtue signalling.

    – and you misrepresent my views, totally, on child protection. I would section all trannies and strike the word gender from all documents.

    But, this is the point : the footsoldiers for trannyism were the gays and the feminists, even today, check a pride march, it’s mostly women. Now the trannies are – insane men, with violent and paedophilic tendencies, and, with a lot of international money and organisation behind them, have become a real danger. It has all blown up; some feminists, those called TERFS, who retain some connection to reality have realised – “wait a minute … this isn’t right” and are trying to push back.

    – and they want help from – men, the people they like to slander, in broadbrush fashion, whenever they can, with little pushback. The character Millie Tant from Viz is a satirical exploration of this misandric worldview.

    Ruby – you are losing coherence, what do you want, posting about it umpteen times a day?

    JGedd – and stuff the 2 bob psychology, mate, a quart doesn’t go into a pint pot.

  36. Andy Anderson

    Superb Stu. Well done.

  37. Hatey McHateface


    Over on WGD BTL, they’re predicting a resurgence in SNP support.

    I’m a great believer in the tribal “hold your nose” voter. It’s what got Labour over the finishing line in Scotland for so many decades.

    I wrote “believer”, not “practitioner”.

    Obviously, like most Scots, I want to vote Humous, because that’s the only cause that matters. But the bar stewards aren’t fielding any candidates north of the border.

    So I’m not quite convinced of the impending SNP wipe-out.

  38. Campbell Clansman

    Andy Ellis: “These elections are a matter of indifference to most of us”

    Is that why the last article (on the election) has 550+ comments?
    Including a lot of your own comments. That’s an awful lot of “indifference.”

    You seem “a tad confused.”

    No wonder your “cause” is going nowhere.

  39. Tinto Chiel

    Just as with Craig Murray and his coverage of the Alex Salmond witch-hunt, I would know very little of the facts behind the the whole woke/gender crapola had it not been for Stuart Campbell’s persistence over several years to expose its madness and danger.

    @Confused 6.06: JGedd isn’t a white knight or a mate, she’s a long-standing female contributor here.

  40. Ruby Sunday

    Ruby – you are losing coherence, what do you want, posting about it umpteen times a day? Confused

    That’s an easy question.

    I want to share information.

    Also my umpteem posts have brought a few interesting things to light with regards to yourself and other posters on this forum.

    I’m quite shocked but it’s better to know the truth.

  41. Kcor

    The biggest tractor in Scottish history and her sycophants were blackmailed into this, otherwise their dark deeds would have been exposed.

    The question is by whom?

    IMHO, by the secret rulers of the world, who are hell bent on destroying society, so it can never pose a threat to them.

    Not by the British establishment, who themselves, like most governments, are mere puppets of the secret rulers of the world.

  42. Republicofscotland

    Brilliant article, knowing what we know now from it, surely the SNP under Sturgeon the Judas (and every FM after) knew what she/they, were/are, doing when they’ve tried to destroy the indy movement.

    I don’t believe for one second that Sturgeon the Judas, Yousaf or Swinney doesn’t/didn’t know the figures in your article above, and that they were as low as you said.

    The only honest conclusion that I can draw from that is that from Sturgeon onwards the SNP wasn’t interested in achieving Scottish independence.

    Lets vote the SNP out at every turn they are a major road blocked to dissolving this illegal union.

  43. Hatey McHateface

    Ruby Eight Days A Week 6:31 pm

    “I’m quite shocked”

    Ruby 24/7 [previous article 9:18 am]

    “It’s all just water off a duck’s arse now”

    Help! I’m becoming confused!

    And I guess I need to get a life.

  44. Dan

    But is the downward trajectory of the SNP really all down to genderwoowoo, or are there other significant contributing factors.
    The graph already starts with steep downward trend, around December, just when winter discontentment kicks in with dark and cold days and extortionate heating bills kick in, chuck in endless other previous Scottish Government Administration of Devolved Powers incompetence in other areas finally beginning to be picked up by a behind the curve electorate and they are surely all contributing factors to the downward trend.

  45. agent x

    Grr bill
    Deposit return scheme
    Hate crime bill

    All completely irrelevant to what the majority of people in Scotland wanted.

  46. Republicofscotland

    agent x.

    Biffa are currently suing the Scottish government for £200 million quid after the collapse of the Deposit Return Scheme.

  47. Ruby Sunday

    Hatey McHateface
    30 June, 2024 at 6:54 pm

    Ruby Eight Days A Week 6:31 pm

    “I’m quite shocked”

    Ruby 24/7 [previous article 9:18 am]

    “It’s all just water off a duck’s arse now”

    Help! I’m becoming confused!

    And I guess I need to get a life.

    It’s a bit creepy that you pay so much attention to my posts Norsewarrior.

    I’m shocked to find out Confused is yet another cunt what he says about me is water off a duck’s arse ”

    Get it? Do you see the difference?

    Hope that helped with your confusion.

    Are you planning on buying a baby or are you talking about another form of life. A pet snake perhaps?
    I would go for the snake that would suit your personality perfectly.


  48. shug

    The decline started when they turned on Salmond.

    By doing what they did they were left open to blackmail. They committed perjury. Some may already have been actors for the union but this opened them up. Everything that followed was planned to undermine the message and open them to ridicule.

    Its a much easier way of undermining the movement than a frontal attack.

    So who are the plants

    Equally interesting is who said nothing and stood back and let it happen/

  49. Andy Ellis

    @Campbell 6.29pm

    The article on the election went up on the 24th FFS. WoS pieces used to be daily and get that many comments in a day. Also how many of the comments were on topic…?

    It hardly proves what passes for your point. Indeed rather the opposite. BTL on WoS – particularly given the prevalence of the usual suspects intellectual….deposits – isn’t real life. The upcoming Westminster election is a sideshow signifying SFA in Scotland.

    It’s immaterial whether the SNP end up with 5 seats, or 10 or all of them. The indifference to the GE amongst the Scottish pro independence electorate is evident. They know the result makes no practical difference, other than allowing clueless britnats to crow about indy being deid, or off the table for a real generation.

  50. Campbell Clansman

    Andy, you were so “indifferent” to the prior WoS article on this election that you posted no less than 15 different comments. In just one thread….
    And your buddies have (so far) made 581.
    I give objective facts and statistics–like the ones above. You don’t–which is sadly typical of Indy Moonhowlers.
    Indy backers shouldn’t be pleased with the contrast.

  51. Effijy

    Mhairi might get the job as the Men’s r@pe crisis minister.

    God she wasted herself after starting out with the best first address I’ve ever heard in Westminster.

    Drag Queens have no place in Primary Schools-Ever

  52. sarah

    @ Effijy: That speech was written for her by some old hands, according to Lloyd Quinan!

  53. Willie

    Although I do not have poll data to back this up my experience of canvassing over recent weeks is that the desire for indepence is still rock solid among around a half or more of the electorate.

    However, the scunner factor with the SNP is enormous. Many many folks are just going to ding the election because there is no one, save for where there is an Alba candidate to now vote for now that the SNP has sold them out.

    However, where there is an Alba candidate they will draw votes. This will stand them in good stead moving forward to next year’s council elections and Hollyrood the year after.

    As from next week though I belive the SNP, save for a couple of seats, will be utterly wiped out of MPs

  54. Andy Ellis

    @Campbell 8.19pm

    Which part of this are finding hard bud?

    How many of my comments were related to the topic?

    What proportion of all the others were?

    Even if some of them were, how does that support what (again) passes for your argument?

    You can’t have been around here long if you haven’t noticed the tendency of threads to….let’s say diverge…from the headline fairly quickly.

  55. Alf Baird

    Postcolonial theory confirms that an imperial power uses its colonial administration to prevent independence; it does this by dividing and rupturing the independence movement:

  56. Mac

    Craig Murray has gone strangely silent on here on defending this subject while running for MP in a Muslim concentrated population of England. Bless him.

    He actually noticed what was happening quite early. He said it was noticeable that all this publicity had resulted in less not more tolerance of trans people…

    He meant that as a criticism.

    I think we are so far past that point when Craig said that… that it makes his statement ridiculous.

  57. Sgritheall

    „Freedom is the right to say that 2 + 2 = 4“ wrote George Orwell. Today he might say that freedom is the right to say that a man is a man. We are no longer allowed to state the obvious. We are not free.

  58. Robert Hughes

    Hhairi Munter is Nu SNP’s Su Pollard tribute act .

    She’s got that ” zany ” Northener routine down pat – LOOK BLUE HAIR , I’m bonkers me – but liberally sprinkled with rainbow fairy dust .

    Bet she’s ragin’ she never made the cut for The Stooge’s Jumbo Jet Flying Lesbian Club . Looks like chubby assassin Val D has reduced her to a minor character . The plot thins

  59. PacMan

    Confused says:
    30 June, 2024 at 6:06 pm

    But, this is the point : the footsoldiers for trannyism were the gays and the feminists, even today, check a pride march, it’s mostly women. Now the trannies are – insane men, with violent and paedophilic tendencies, and, with a lot of international money and organisation behind them, have become a real danger. It has all blown up; some feminists, those called TERFS, who retain some connection to reality have realised – “wait a minute … this isn’t right” and are trying to push back.

    As pointed out by Ruby, these whole issue can be resolved by repealing the GRA 2004 legislation.

    However, most feminists aren’t advocating that and considering that 50% of the population is female, this it isn’t a major election issue.

    Just an observation…

  60. Geri

    Ah right – the penny drops regards TRA & feminists being to blame. I get it now.

  61. Hatuey

    Mac: “Hatuey, who were you telling on the previous thread that the nintendo switch was still worth buying in 2024?”

    I like to throw apparent non-sequiturs around for artistic reasons.

    Almost all of my comments are directed at people in the future. I kinda use this place as a journal that future generations will read and hopefully find useful. That’s why I seem somewhat aloof and unsocial.

    Those trans folks who think they’re trapped in the wrong bodies have it easy. There isn’t even a word for people like me who feel trapped in the wrong epoch.

    This world is like Planet of the Apes to me. Some day I’ll trot along a beach on a white horse and find a broken statue of Von Daniken.

    “You bastards! You finally did it! You blew it up!”

    Something like that…

  62. Geri

    Mhari Hunter has been a plant from the start. She’s made it her life’s mission to insult, bully & be downright fucking annoying to the YES movement ever since she arrived.

    Even being voted into Glasgow City Council didn’t curb her enthusiasm – she’d wile away the WHOLE DAY talking shit on twitter & pissing everyone off into the bargain.

    She’d the cheek to be shocked when she lost her seat. Delusional fckwit.

    I’m becoming less tolerant myself. Gay MPs are turning out to be bad fcking news everywhere. Every policy, every waking moment, every agenda has to revolve around them & their sex life with a heavy dose of authoritarian bullshit thrown in for good measure with pronoun patrol on who wasn’t behaving.

    As for gay pride – feminists bullied out of their own events, Blair White addressed that a long time ago. They used to self police those events to get rid of the pedos & straight kink eejits but the gays embraced everyone & even made songs about coming after folks kids so not to blame the TRAs for that shit getting out of hand.

    Even today they’re promoting drag who are gay men.

  63. ben madigan

    until Alba, what remains of the Yes movement, Sovreign Scots, AUOB and the Salvo/Liberation movement link up and work together,focussing on common principles, Scottish Independence will remain in its current doldrums.

  64. Geri


    I could be wrong but I think Craig was referring to genuine suffers of gender dysphoria. Not the eejits who fake it cause it’s fashionable at the moment.

    Stonewall lost the plot when they created their wee umbrella to include every whackadoo out there & proudly boasting no one needed gender dysphoria to join their wee club.

  65. Lorna Campbell

    So sick of the constant misogyny. I don’t know any woman who said: let’s get rid of men and do it all ourselves. See, Confused, that’s the difference between people like you who are vicious and vindictive about females and women who are feminists in the pure sense of that word. All we ever asked for was to be treated with decency and fairness as half the human race.

    Perhaps we are asking too much in thinking that you, as a male, might be interested in protecting your female relatives and children from this men’s sexual rights movement. Maybe you have some personal stake in seeing females ground down?

    In the early days, everyone who studied ‘trans’ – that is, cross-dressing men – discovered two types. The first were homosexual cross-dressers and the second were heterosexual autogynephiles and fetishists, with wholly sexual motives. Even the mildest-mannered ones are still AGPs and fetishists, although they would never admit to it.

    We have lost sight of that truth and are making all kinds of excuses for ‘trans’ people. Not one scintilla of evidence exists for ‘trans’ as anything other than an idee fixee in someone’s wee heid.

    Confused people exist, people with childhood trauma exist, people with neurodivergent conditions exist, people with body dysmorphia exist and people – almost entirely men – with a huge number of paraphilias and fetishes certainly exist. Many of these are so gross that even if they are not rapists, they still pose a threat to females by their vomit-inducing antics in our spaces.

    ‘Trans’ is nothing more than a pulling together of these disparate folk. They already have all the same rights as the rest of us. The fact that this is a men’s sexual rights movement has given it an impetus and authority it does not deserve. The young women and children are their human shield, gulled and conned, and p**n is their driver.

    Repeal the GRA 2004, call in all GRCs and give them a sex marker and tighten the Equality Act 2010 to make it impossible for men to enter female spaces in any circumstances under pain of arrest. Ensure compliance from hospitals, prisons, etc. under the threat of sanction.

    Ensure third spaces are available and carve them out of the male toilets, not the females ones or the disabled ones. Maybe most females are not advocating these measures yet, but they will be if this is not stopped in its tracks.

  66. sarah

    @ Lorna Campbell at 11.34: Hear hear. I cannot bear the way that institutions, schools, retailers etc are prepared to impose falsehoods on the rest of us instead of fighting for the truth.

  67. Ruby Sunday

    So sick of the constant misogyny. I don’t know any woman who said: let’s get rid of men and do it all ourselves.

    They heard a Eurythmics/Aretha Franklin song.

  68. Young Lochinvar

    Shug & 7.25

    Absolutely 100% spot on.

    And who was it that turned on him?

    I said back in the run up to 2014 and the election before it that Salmond better not have any skeletons hiding in the cupboard, the UK MSM would eviscerate him.

    Fast forward; now who exactly eviscerated and attempted character assassination and still do?

    You know, individuals and “cohorts” of society.

    If you can’t see it then you’re not fit to drive a car.

  69. twathater

    I watched Barrheadboys latest PRISM where there was a video of a Labour candidate in Aberdeenshire who I presume was of Pakistani origin on the doorstep of a house talking to a voter, he was appealing to the resident in very bad almost indecipherable pidgin english to vote for HIM,the resident said that he normally voted tory as he knew him and got on well with him

    The candidate said that he knew the tory guy personally and was very friendly with his opposition number and they wanted him to vote for the LIEBOUR candidate, HIM, because he through LIEBOUR had the best chance of BEATING the Scum Nonce Party candidate and STOPPING independence

    It is practically unbelievable (but it is actually happening) that people coming to SCOTLAND from India and Pakistan BOTH independent and sovereign countries are deliberately and willfully CONSPIRING with others to STOP, through ANY means possible SCOTLAND and SCOTS from regaining their INDEPENDENCE

    WHY are we so tolerant when we have Sarwar , humza Useless and now this CLOWN issuing racist comments
    Would it be possible for Scots to have a vote on rescinding India and Pakistan’s independence from the great colonial Brutish EMPIRE that they appear to be so fond of

  70. Hatuey

    The election this week is going to shock everyone. Electoral Calculus is now predicting the SNP will win just 18 seats — that’s a staggering loss of 30 seats.

    But, the data suggests the SNP could be reduced to as few as 7 seats.

    Here’s a list of a few notable SNP MPs that are expected to lose their seats this week;

    Anne McLaughlin
    Patrick Grady
    Stewart McDonald
    David Linden
    Kirsten Oswald
    Neil Gray
    Gavin Newlands
    Stuart McDonald
    Tommy Sheppard
    Alyn Smith
    Douglas Chapman
    Angus MacNeil
    Joanna Cherry
    Philippa Whitford
    Allan Dorans

    A fuller list can be found here;

    On Friday more of us will be able to visualise Scotland’s future and the goal of independence without needing to factor in the useless, corrupt, distraction that the SNP became under Sturgeon.

    That’s the direction we need to move in and it’s why I will celebrate every single seat the SNP loses in this election.

    Their days of betraying us are almost over.

  71. Mac

    “A fuller list can be found here;

    No, no, no that is completely unacceptable. For some inexplicable reason that has Pete Pishfart retaining his seat.

    FFS what is wrong with the people of Perth. Sort that shit out.

    ‘Oh but I don’t want to vote tory, bleat, whine, simp….’

    See! what fucking happens when you mince out of doing what needs to be done. See!

    I would be voting for the Genghis-Khan-Hitler-Stalin Party if need be to see off that little turd. What is fucking wrong with you people.

  72. Breeks

    Ignored says:
    1 July, 2024 at 3:39 am
    The election this week is going to shock everyone. Electoral Calculus is now predicting the SNP will win just 18 seats…

    Angus MacNeil may or may not lose his seat, but he’s an Independent now, not SNP.

    I’d be sad to see Joanna Cherry lose too, then again, her potency as a legal eagle seems blunted by bickering over gay and discrimination issues. I see her as having her guns spiked, rather than wiping the floor with her adversaries. The attacks were nasty and personal, so I’m not rushing to judge. When you’re attacked by alleged allies, the effect can be demoralising, debilitating and disorienting, Seems so.

    As for the rest, let them reap what they sow. There’s a host of names in that list I’d love to see humiliated and out of a job. Plus Black and Blackman who aren’t on the list. Don’t tell me those imbeciles are in safe seats…

    No mention of the Wishart creature, but I can’t remember if he’s standing down. Who cares about the trash anyway?

    Shocked by 7 seats? Meh. They’ve brought it upon themselves. Fk ‘em.

  73. Alf Baird

    Hatuey @ 3:39 am

    “Here’s a list of a few notable SNP MPs”

    They and the rest of them are only notable for seeking ‘an accommodation with colonialism’, for ‘rupturing the movement’, for ‘taking the people up a blind alley’, and for working ‘against the cause of liberation’. They entire rotten barrel should all be voted out.

    As Cesaire put it:

    “And do not seek to know whether personally…they are or are not colonialists, because the essential thing is that their highly problematical subjective good faith is entirely irrelevant to the objective social implications of the evil work they perform as watchdogs of colonialism.”

  74. Geri

    So disappointed in Joanna.

    I dunno now if she was friend or foe.

    She could’ve came out the traps at the height of the SNP (& her popularity within Yes) & knocked Sturgeon off her perch especially so over all the disasters, fck ups & open goals Sturgeon continually & deliberately missed.

    Instead she fought Brexshit & the English parliament instead of fighting for the country & ppl who actually voted for her which was a huge clue she was staying in the Union for the long haul cause who gave a fck about Brexshit, no deals or even BoJo if we were leaving?! It’d be nothing to do with us. It was also so fucking dumb to try reverse a democratic vote. If we’d voted YES to indy we’d be furious (& rightly so) if anyone tried to reverse it.

    Scotland seems cursed with wishy-washy wimps when we need someone with a bit more rottweiler about them. Or maybe we’re cursed with an endless procession of fakers.

  75. Robert Hughes

    Twathater @ 3.30

    Multiculturalism YO ! Why just get fucked-over by yr own , indigenous clownshow when you can be shat on by a beautiful , ethnically-diverse collection of cunts , whose appreciation for the hospitality they’ve been shown by Dopey Scotland takes the form of working in strategic coalition with the enemies of our country to keep us hog-tied in * Union * . Mon the Nu Scots .

    re those polling predictions posted above , I reckon they are wildly , negatively inaccurate ; ’cause in the next 3/4 days the Scottish Electorate will remember that under NU snP …..

    Child Poverty has been eliminated

    Hate has been shown the door ( and in just 3 short months : amazin’ ! )

    Ferries to Arran , the Western Isles , Northern Isles , Tír na nÓg run every hour on the hour *

    Every home is promised a box of candles to help with energy costs ( if it votes snP , obv )

    The list of underachievements goes on and on and on and on …..

    With such a formidable track record they could easily retain , let’s see …..I don’t think winning as many as 8 seats is an unrealistic expectation

    * not during Pride Month or when it’s raining

  76. Robert Hughes

    Update …..

    Just reading that … ” John Swinney: I would work with a Labour government on migration – BBC

    Genius move from The Undertaker .

    Revise that now timid prognostication : I see no reason why the Scottish Non-Binary Swingers Party can’t win an astounding 9 seats

  77. Geri

    Lol Robert..

    I’m sure Alf has written about those that do well under colonialism tend to follow the mother ship out the country once they’re finally liberated.

    The polling I’ve heard suggests a low turn out. I’ll bet! Missing polling cards, photo ID & boundary changes I’d be shocked if it was anything else but a massive fail.

  78. Frank Gillougley

    If John Swinney was cast as Ken, then who the fuck was Barbie? Surely not….or did they just not think that one through, like errr everything else!

  79. Mac

    If the SNP were reduced to one MP and that MP was Pete Pishflaps I would still be disappointed.

    Still looks like the wee trough jobby is likely to survive while other MPs who were not complete wankbags throughout their entire tenure (like Cherry) are set to lose theirs.

    There is no justice in the fine scale but thems the breaks, fly with the crows…

  80. Mac

    20 seats or above for the SNP will be disappointing.

    15-19 would ok’ish

    10-14 would definitely be not bad at all.

    Sub 10 would be a single figure delight and a result.

    Part of me just feels this is going to be disappointing. Scots voted for the Labour donkey for decades before throwing them off. The catalyst for it was a clear better alternative.

    The SNP were that alternative but now they are worse than Labour (ever) were… So who the fuck are they going to vote for now it is time to throw off the SNP.

    Making this a hard one to predict. I have a lingering feeling many will just revert to voting SNP on the day. (Please don’t do that, it is a huge mistake.)

    I am hoping for the best while expecting the worst. Pretty much my approach with all things Scottish these days.

  81. Robert Hughes

    @ Geri

    Indeed , G . Everything Alf refers to can be seen in the completely decadent , worthless snP n it’s submission to Brit State supremacy .

    It doesn’t matter a damn if * you * accept that Scotland is in colonial relation with it’s overbearing neighbour – or not .

    * You’re * acceptance or otherwise is irrelevant . The Facts don’t so much ” speak for themselves ” as bawl in yr face for themselves

  82. Robert Hughes

    Doh ! ” your acceptance ….” .

  83. Mac

    “Threat of independence will finally die on fourth of July

    Brexit and the bungled leadership of Nicola Sturgeon have left the Union stronger than it has been in 300 years”

    “Bungled”. lol. MacWhirter doing his best not to join the dots.

    Loved this bit…

    “When the historians come to write the story of how Scottish nationalism lost the plot in the 2020s, Nicola Sturgeon will surely emerge as the prime mover — or rather UNmover. The former SNP first minister has arguably been the greatest unintentional asset that the Union ever possessed. She somehow kept a lid on the explosion of independence passions after the 2014 referendum and sat on it just long enough for it to dissipate.”

    ‘Unintentional’. She ‘bungled’ it.

    And then this…

    “Remember, the SNP won all but three seats in the 2015 general election — that would in times past have been regarded as a supermajority for independence. Brexit in 2016 seemed like another casus belli, as Scots voted to remain but found themselves out of Europe. Had the SNP found another insurgent leader like Alex Salmond, then history might have been different. The Scottish parliament could have become a platform for secession and Westminster might have granted the least-worst option.”

    Yes Ian if only Scotland had an Alex Salmond… what happened to him again?

    Fucking ‘bungled’.

    And the punchline…

    “You should never say never in politics. But we can now say with some confidence this week that the Union between Scotland and England is probably as strong now as it has been at any time in the last 300 years.”

    A child can see what Sturgeon was and is.

    She ‘bungled’ fuck all.

  84. Luigi

    That great “insurgent leader” FM in 2014 was followed by an over-promoted, self-obsessed career politician. No surprise what followed. Hindsight is a great thing eh? She fooled most of us. Swinney fools no-one (he is trying hard lol).

    Ten years of nothing. Sigh. The only silver lining is that support for Scottish independence remains really strong (and continues to grow) in the public at large. Someone effective will arise (eventually) because that vacuum needs to be filled.

  85. Mac

    That is a very disingenuous article from Ian MacWhirter

    In his criticism of Sturgeon he is elevating her to the ranks of the grossly incompetent. That is very dishonest IMHO.

    Sturgeon achieved the EXACT POLAR OPPOSITE of what her ‘stated’ aims and objectives were.

    “…we can now say with some confidence this week that the Union between Scotland and England is probably as strong now as it has been at any time in the last 300 years.”

    That is not incompetence.

    The SNP as the political vehicle to achieve independence was systematically and methodically destroyed by Sturgeon. That was not incompetence.

    The one politician capable of exploiting BREXIT, and the massive series of squandered opportunities she deliberately wasted, she destroyed his reputation with bare faced lies.

    That was not incompetence.

    Does Ian MacWhirter button up the back? Seriously?


    People with very particular «sexualities» would have themselves perceived as a vulnerable «ethno-cultural» minority with «rights» to extra protection from the state apparatus above and beyond that which civil law offers to the vast majority.

    «[The situation] has hardly been helped by prominent celebrities, often now referred to as ‘Vichy gays’, who have cheered on this sinister development. Homosexuals are not immune to the condition of useful idiocy»

    Politicians like the cobbler should stick to their last; among its many obtrusive, supercilious adepts a signal rarity.

    «Get thee glasse-eyes, and like a scurvy Politician, seeme to see the things thou dost not»?Shakespeare,
    King Lear,

  87. Mac

    It is interesting that MacWhirter attributes BREXIT as well as Sturgeon’s ‘bungling’ to making the Union stronger than ever in the last 300 years…

    Anyone recall those two fuds Boris & Gove giving their press conference in the immediate aftermath of the BREXIT result. I remember it clearly. They were shell shocked, they looked completely lost, like they did not expect to win at all. It was very odd at the time.

    With a lot of hindsight now it is very possible that BREXIT was not so much about taking the UK out of the EU but taking Scotland out of the EU. That was about removing our ‘safe exit route’ from the Union.

    Which also likely means that both referendums were leant on. Hence the obvious shock from Boris & Gove when they ‘won’.

    It is very possible given the stakes. Look where we are now versus 2014.

    Is it all just a big happy co-incidence for our union loving pals who just happen to run all the union loving ‘services’.

    I think not.

  88. Ruby Monday


    WHY are we so tolerant when we have Sarwar , humza Useless and now this CLOWN issuing racist comments
    Would it be possible for Scots to have a vote on rescinding India and Pakistan’s independence from the great colonial Brutish EMPIRE that they appear to be so fond of

    Good question.

    We have been brainwashed into thinking they matter and we don’t.

    The fact that they are here and not in India & Pakistan might indicated they are not supporters of independence.
    They are hardcore BritNats and when Scotland becomes independent they will move to England.

    Why am I worried that the above might be racist? It’s because I have been well & truly brainwashed.

    Exactly the same thing is happening with gender ideology. Transwomen matter and we don’t.
    The brainwashing is extensive.

    Scots have been so brainwashed into thinking they matter and we don’t that they are prepared to protest to protect illegal immigrants who have been living and working here illegally for 10 years.

    See Kenmure Street. Unbelievable!

    PS twathater you are a good man.

  89. Mac

    What the last 10 years have demonstrated beyond any shadow of doubt is, it is most definitely not any form of democratic ‘Union’ we are in, it is a prison.

    Which is where Alex Salmond would be right now had they got their way.

    I know the implications of this are horrible but this is where we are.

    And now they are taking us to war.

  90. Geri

    “Does Ian MacWhirter button up the back? Seriously?”


    & Sure as shit if Sturgeon was still in power he’d be calling her a saint & a shrewd politician.

    He blows with the wind.

  91. Ruby Monday

    You should never say never in politics. But we can now say with some confidence this week that the Union between Scotland and England is probably as strong now as it has been at any time in the last 300 years. MacWhirter

    Rubbish! What is stronger than it ever was is Scotland’s acceptance that we live and a colony and there is nothing we can do about it.

    The Union between Scotland and England only appears strong because they have built stronger walls to keep us in.

    We have been ‘beaten’ into submission.

    You can force me to hold a ‘Butchers Apron’ but you can’t make me wave it.

    (That’s a variation on ‘you can take a horse to water’ phrase)

  92. Geri


    What McWhirter fails to mention is that the USA owns Britain.

    Successive English governments have sold the lot. It was in *their* interests to rig both referendums. McWhirters union is colonised. They make decisions over hee-haw.

    & Yes, I remember BoJo disappearing for weeks & the media trying desperately to spin it that it was the EU who had to come up with a plan, not BoJo & Gove..LMAO! Obviously they had to await further instructions from Uncle Sam.

  93. Mac

    Reading it again, that whole MacWhirter article is an attempt to mislead.

    He basically concludes that independence is dead and buried yet nowhere does he mention that support for it remains as high as ever.

    He essentially falsely conflates the death of independence with the death of the SNP.

    He implicitly tries to ‘shitewash’ Nicola Sturgeon, elevating her to just ‘bungling’.

    He fails to see nor suspect any hidden hands at work, when it is glaring at us from his own words, just all a big happy coincidence…

    He is at it.

  94. Ruby Monday

    1 July, 2024 at 9:48 am

    What the last 10 years have demonstrated beyond any shadow of doubt is, it is most definitely not any form of democratic ‘Union’ we are in, it is a prison.

    Is that not something men should be sorting out instead of complaining how women have done you wrong and they deserve all they’re getting from the trans creeps.

    Mac You are not a good man!

    BTW Regarding war
    No Soldiers No War

    If you men weren’t so keen to sign up to see the world and kill people there would be no wars.


    Do people of Pakistan heritage, e.g mr Sarwar feel they owe a debt of gratitude to the British state?
    It was the imperialist divide and rule policy in «British India» of setting Muslim against Hindu that fuelled the gruesome partition under the Mountbatten viceroyalty thereby creating an ersatz ethnicity from disparate Muslim populations with little other than religion in common and leaving the culturally diverse and syncretic sub-continent the poorer.
    The intentions of mr Yousaf are, however, more in line with his party loyalty: Sturgeon, Yousaf, Swinney are certainly of «like ilk». The population they have deceived is not.

  96. Republicofscotland

    Hatuey 3.39am

    I read a article somewhere that said that the support for indy in Perth is around the 60% mark, oh how I’d love to see that treacherous b*sard Wishart ousted from his beloved HoC.

  97. Dan

    Lorna Campbell says: 30 June, 2024 at 11:34 pm

    So sick of the constant misogyny. I don’t know any woman who said: let’s get rid of men and do it all ourselves.

    Please bear with me on this Lorna. I’ll start with stating you have been one of the most consistent and erudite commenters over the years articulating the many issues and realities surrounding the entire genderwoowoo matter.
    I am aligned with your position on this subject, and have when needs arise shared some of your past posts with folk to raise their awareness and help them better understand the subject.

    But the vagaries of the written word can create issues where non actually exist. That being the case can you clarify where you are seeing this “constant misogyny” because it isn’t clear if you’re talking about wider society or specifically btl.
    Without you highlighting the specific examples of individuals displaying said misogyny then you could be perceived as creating / or perpetuating a direct or indirect division between the sexes that didn’t previously exist, because some men might incorrectly pick up a vibe of hostility towards them in a similar manner to the way you have seemingly incorrectly picked up a vibe from them.

    The last comment thread was an absolute skipfire of needless created division due to folk misinterpreting or twisting what people had posted.
    And it was pretty much kicked off by self proclaimed dumb as fuck Ruby “poundshop Siobhan McFadyen” blurting out this early in the comments.

    “Ruby Monday says: 24 June, 2024 at 7:38 pm

    Neale Hanvey like every other candidate standing in Scotland believes ‘transwomen are women’

    I was going to say it would be interesting to see the number of women who decided not to vote because it bloody well won’t be the reason being we won’t know if these ‘women’ are men or not.

    First off, that’s bullshit so it initiates a need for a rebuttal to correct the inaccuracy, promote awareness of candidates that don’t believe “transwomen are women”, as well as attempts to try to get further clarity on Neale Hanvey’s position.
    And as I attempted to do this in several posts, pretty much every post was then sleekitly twisted or misrepresented as being my views and the position I support when that is not the case.
    EG Me linking to Alba’s Manifesto, which you retorted with “What don’t I get”.
    Hello, don’t shoot the messenger, I merely linked to it and am not an Alba member or supporter of their position. I thought and hoped their section on gender and sex may have provided a broader discussion point rather than just knee-jerk antagonistic reaction against myself by a couple of women, neither of which seemed aware, bothered or concerned that what was playing out in their tag team effort would naturally begin to piss me off to the point I can’t be arsed engaging in the tedium further, because I’m aware lurkers wouldn’t be interested in scrolling through an endless stream of pish bickering.
    Not all men are insensitive hostile anti-women bastards so it might jist help build some complimentary unitary of feeling between the sexes if those men weren’t meant to feel like they are…

  98. Colin Alexander

    Re Craig Murray

    Craig is standing for the Workers Party of Britain, who are also standing in seats in Scotland, including against Alba. According to the Alba constitution, that should mean Craig is automatically no longer a member of Alba.

    However, Alex Salmond gave him special permission. A power Salmond does not have under the Alba constitution.

    But, Craig Murray is a pal of Alex Salmond and Salmond does what he wants. The constitution is worthless. It’s SNP corruption all over again.

    Craig Murray kept silent over the Alba NEC voting rigging scandal when Alex Salmond intervened in the Alba elections; a power he Salmond did not have according to the constitution. Salmond bullied and smeared members causing dedicated members real distress. Salmond then responded to the vote rigging allegations by decreeing voting figures should remain a secret.

    I knew Salmond can turn on the charm but also has a darker reputation of being a domineering bully who abuses power.

    We all make mistakes. I hope Craig will consider that the reason so many ordinary people admired him and backed him – was his impeccable honesty, integrity and courage in calling out corruption.

  99. Iain McCord

    Even the graph is misleading. The “or had a trans history” includes those who desisted. Given non-binary is included, these days, in the trans lexicon but seems a get out clause for young lesbians to escape being pressured into mutilation and sex with trans lesbians then it’s even more padded.
    Then again the impact of various trans impositions in school life might also have something to do with it. Not just the same sex toilets and/or changing rooms but the increasing impact of girls sports. Especially in America where having scholarships stolen from them can have a negative effect on the rest of their lives.

  100. Republicofscotland

    This will probably be a western Gladio B event if it occurs, and blamed on the usual suspects.

    Then there’s Operation Gladio.

    “All American military bases in Europe have been placed on high alert due to a potential terrorist threat against facilities or personnel, several US media outlets reported on Sunday, citing sources at the Pentagon.”

  101. Hatuey

    Breeks: “I’d be sad to see Joanna Cherry lose too”

    There are obvious risks and consequences to running with the hare whilst hunting with hounds…

    I have no idea why she stayed in Nicola’s rancid party.

    Oh well.

  102. Hatey McHateface


    The conspiracy theories are getting a good airing this morning, along with the almost compulsory dram watering over Brexit, yet no mention of the daddy conspiracy theory of them all.

    “What conspiracy theory is that then, Uncle Hatey?”

    “Why, the allegation that Brexit was dreamed up, instigated and funded by Moscow, of course.”


    “No, say it’s not true! We all love Moscow on Wings BTL!”

    “There, there, I know, we won’t talk about it again. But now you can see why that conspiracy theory must for ever remain undiscussed.”

    “Like England winning last night, you mean?”


  103. Alibi

    Agree with this article apart from one detail – the GRR nonsense was (is?) also supported by Labour, LibDems, Greens and even some Tories. Labour support was I think even stronger than the SNP. However that is now being glossed over for electoral purposes.

    WTF is Swinney playing at dressing up with a trans-themed saltire T-shirt and bright yellow glasses? Who advised him to do that? Crazy.

  104. Hatey McHateface

    Colin Alexander

    CM is standing for Humous.

    Write it as it really is.

  105. Hatey McHateface


    Where’s this “scotland” place you keep banging on about, in amongst your deranged witterings about the usual suspects, satans and the Dews?

    Don’t you think that somebody who can’t spell “Scotland” correctly lacks any semblance of credibility?

    You really should have spent some time in the totalitarian shithole you profess to love so much. The lack of respect in writing like you daily demonstrate would have got you ten years in the gulag.

  106. Mac

    Unfortunately for all the good things that it has achieved there is also a fair bit of misandry present in the feminist movement. Some of it very extreme.

    I have noticed before if you talk about men’s issues or how men perceive any situation it angers a certain demographic of feminist. Not all, but some.

    And it is my observation it is usually the ones with the misandrist views.

    Other feminists have zero problem with it, why would they, it is not challenging anything they are saying.

    It is like certain feminists see the world through the lens of being a woman but if a man does the same it enrages them. It also enrages them that men might say they have issues.

    It was my impression there was frustration BTL that not more was being done to repeal the GRA as an urgent priority.

    I was trying to explain why IMHO it was not something many men would speak up against for the reasons given.

    Hatuey also made a similar point about genocides and ethnic cleansing going on right now as well and imminent WW3…

    But I am sure in some households incessant nagging, until you get what you want, works.

    Meanwhile in the real world.

  107. Northcode

    A people cannot be accused of racism for standing in support of their own cultural identity against those who would see their history and identity extinguished – regardless of who those people are or where they come from or what colour their skin happens to be.

    A people whose existence is threatened with extinction aren’t racist – they’ve been forced to adopt a defensive stance against an invader, and those who collude with that invader.

    The Scots shouldn’t fall for the ‘you are racists’ trick. The real racists are those who are subjugating the Scots and are projecting their own racism onto them; trying to steal everything they own – including their cultural identity.

    The Scots need to start remembering who they are and where they come from; they need to remember their great history and unique culture; they need to cast aside all the nonsensical lies they’ve been forced to swallow for centuries; they need to wake up from their imperial induced sleep and reclaim their cultural identity.

    In short, the Scots need to tell those who are trying to destroy them to fuck off and mind ther ain business.

  108. Ruby Monday

    Madre Mia!

    Dan is having a rant about

    self proclaimed dumb as fuck Ruby “poundshop Siobhan McFadyen”


    Neale Hanvey like every other candidate standing in Scotland believes ‘transwomen are women’

    this seems to be what has kicked off all the displays of sexism/misogyny.

    No regrets about what I said at least we now know who we are dealing with on Wings it’s all been very revealing.


    All states/unions are only as strong as their respective «centres». The USA, EU and the British state are now prey to a centre weakening corporatism aka globalization over which democratically unaccountable plutocrats and their yeah-sayers fight to the death of the authentically human.
    «Say Ay to AI and the medicalized E-Human» might be the slogan of the emerging conformist order.
    The existentialist philosopher J-P Sartre is reputed to have said, learning/speaking a minority language is a direct assault on the capitalist system, he might today speak of the «neo-corporatist system».
    Start learning today.

  110. Mac

    “And as I attempted to do this in several posts, pretty much every post was then sleekitly twisted or misrepresented as being my views and the position I support when that is not the case.”

    I have noticed this as well Dan.

    Typically you get unflattering or offensive words put in your mouth that you did not write (when it is just easier to quote what was written).

    Those made up views (lies) then get more and more extreme with every iteration.

    I find it very dishonest which is why I generally don’t engage.

  111. Ruby Monday

    Mac is greetin’ now.

    Who will be next Confused?

    Don’t forget it’s easy enough to go back and read what you actually wrote.

  112. Alf Baird

    Mac @ 8:39 am

    “the greatest unintentional asset that the Union ever possessed”

    Yes, there is nothing unintentional about British assets placed in a dominant national party, and they have done a fine job holding the independence movement back for a bit. But the movement has now figured this out, even if a distant MacWhirter haesna.

    Where MacWhirter also seems lacking is in the fact that ‘mother country’ England-as-Britain is still in what is an ever deepening internal crisis; the former imperial power now bankrupt and broken, culturally dislocated, desperately clutching hold of her last remaining milch-cow, Scotland.

  113. ABruce

    Craig @ 4:36 pm
    Voting in Perth to get rid of the SNP is easy. That would be voting for an excellent Independent, Sally Hughes. Check her out on Roddy McLeods TASP.

  114. Mac

    For those interested. Here is the book I read on it quite a few years ago now.

    Alf, listening to that kimdotcom interview was horrible. If you did not listen to it, it is well worth it.

    We are going to get taken down with it. It really is unavoidable almost.

    (I feel like I am locked in the minker class cabins on the titanic.)

  115. Ruby Monday

    Not all men are insensitive hostile anti-women bastards so it might jist help build some complimentary unitary of feeling between the sexes if those men weren’t meant to feel like they are… Dan.

    Only you has control over your feelings.

    Oh yes, I am wise
    But it’s wisdom born of pain
    Yes, I’ve paid the price
    But look how much I’ve gained
    If I have to, I can face anything
    I am strong (strong)
    I am invincible (invincible)
    I am woman

    Yes I’m all that but I sure as shit don’t have the power to control your feelings only you can do that.

    How can we tell which men might be insensitive hostile anti-women bastards and which aren’t.

    Things can change with men you might think they are lovely and like them a lot but then you say something they don’t like and out comes ‘the insensitive hostile anti-women bastard’

    I think I’m going to leave it at that because up until now I have really liked the poster called Dan I do not want to totally annihilate you and destroy any chance of a reconciliation.

  116. Mac

    (sorry ballsed up my email again)

    For those interested. Here is the book I read on it quite a few years ago now.

    Alf, listening to that kimdotcom interview was horrible. If you did not listen to it, it is well worth it.

    We are going to get taken down with it. It really is unavoidable almost.

    (I feel like I am locked in the m1nker class cabins on the titanic.)

  117. Stuart MacKay

    Lorna @11:34

    Not going to preface this by saying how much I respect you, because …

    I think you have to look past the headlines of what Confused is saying. The stale, pale males of this world are pretty pissed off at the treatment that’s been handed out to them for the past few decades. Now people are looking to them for help. It should come as no surprise that there’s some reluctance to give it. Look at Graham Linehan. Told for the longest time to butt out and mind his own business, but he wouldn’t let it go, and now he’s one of the most valuable allies.

    It would have been better if women could win this fight on their own. They’d garner a lot of respect from the quarters where you now seek help and the skeptics would be much more willing to lend a hand for the next one – which there will most certainly be.

    You’re on the right track in appealing to the stale, pale, male’s biological role in providing protection and the sense of duty that comes with it. You just need to persist when you get some initial push back.

    Initially I thought there’d be a price to pay for enlisting help, but I think the “fulfillment of duty” is probably payment enough.

    OK, mini-rant over. Dan said it more eloquently, but you need to listen. Everyone will be better off for it.

  118. Ruby Monday

    But I am sure in some households incessant nagging, until you get what you want, works. Mac

    How to prove you are not sexist for Dummies.

    How about posting all these men’s issues that you have. The only person who has posted about ‘Mens issues’ has been David Hannah and this woman has been 100% supportive of his ideas.

    I would rather you describe me as a woman and not a feminist.
    Not all woman are ‘feminists to their finger tips’.

    Of course there is the problem with the word woman but I will understand because I know what a woman is.

    BTW Joanna Cherry also believes ‘transwomen are women’

  119. Ruby Monday


    Look Stuart we can’t fuckin’ listen if you don’t tell us what’s the matter.

    I think women are perfectly entitled to look to men for help when they are getting paid to do the job.

    It’s OK for you to go on the huff because ‘women done you wrong’ but it’s really not on when the police also go on the huff.

    Lets hear your complaints. It would probably have been better if you had voiced them way before this but
    ‘Better late than never’.

  120. Anton Decadent

    Is this John Swinney?

    With regard to trans and claims that it is a mens movement, I suggest that people have a look at the board of the Tavistock then have a look at the three judges who overturned the initial findings against it in the Appeals Court. Then have a look at the relevant pharmaceutical companies and who exactly the supportive media and nudge units are. We are living through a massive psy op which was generations in the making.

  121. Hatuey

    I refuse to be suckered into viewing the world exclusively through any sex or gender related prism.

    Take note of this basic and obvious fact; even if all your feminist desires were realised and full equality with men was achieved, the world would still be seething with injustice, inequality, hunger, misery, war, and chaos.

    There isn’t one explanation of all this but I’d say 90% of the problems would disappear quite quickly if big business, banks, and the rich didn’t have so much influence.

    On that basis, everything else — including the priorities of feminists — are arguably mere distractions.

    You might think it’s a bit grandiose to look at things like that, to burden the shoulders of feminists in this country with these things and effectively downgrade their more local concerns on the basis of universalism, etc.

    To that I say women in this country, generally speaking, have quite a lot going for them. There isn’t a job they can’t do, they have all sorts of legislation to protect their rights, and they are pretty much free to do what men are free to do.

    I know, I know, someone is thinking of mentioning the wage gap… it always comes up. Funny how the gap between the wages of the poor vis-a-vis the rich never comes up in this sort of conversation… I mean, if you’re interested in wage gaps and all that.

    Again, through my alternative prism, the evidence is clear on the falling living standards of the poor, income inequality, etc. — it’s a much bigger problem than the % gap between the wages of men and women (it’s actually massive by comparison).

    But all of these things are to be put on hold because, well, a few men are competing in womens’ sports and invading their private spaces.

    I’m sympathetic to these concerns, as I have repeatedly said (I’m not lying), but they just aren’t amongst the most important or pressing problems we face right now in this country, or in the wider world.

    Bombs, bullets, poverty, hunger, disease, they definitely don’t discriminate on the basis of sex. They don’t care.

  122. Ruby Monday

    That’s Hatuey on the list now.

    Hatuey is not a good man

    Just how sexist/misogynistic is BTL on Wings?

  123. Ian Smith

    The woke rot is deep and liable to get worse before it gets better.

    Looking at the student representatives from my university out of eight office bearers five are clearly ethnic minorities and two of the others almost certainly LGBT+.

    Until we learn to stand up for ourselves and the normality that has built modern civilisation we are screwed.

  124. Geri

    Feminism isn’t all that.

    Look at the shite we’ve had to suffer:

    Crissida Dickhead

    FFS. I’ll stop there. Each & every one a warhawking fuckwit or a TRAhag..(if that’s not a word yet it should be lol)

    I’ll get ma coat…

  125. Ruby Monday

    Anton Decadent

    What are you trying to say? Can’t make up my mind if you are a ‘good man’ or not.

    Are you trying to say it’s all women’s fault so they need to sort it all out by themselves.

    It’s a movement for some men supported by some women.

    I am not one of these women I don’t know if you are one of these men.

  126. Geri

    Oops! How could I forget Von Der liar & straight in at this week’s No2 her sidekick Kaja Kallas.

    I think I’ll go back to bed

  127. Ruby Monday

    1 July, 2024 at 1:01 pm

    I think I’ll go back to bed

    Good idea! Cheerio!

  128. Ruby Monday

    1 July, 2024 at 1:01 pm

    I think I’ll go back to bed

    Good idea!


  129. Ruby Monday

    Wise words Ian Smith!

    You are a clever man 🙂

  130. Anton Decadent

    @Ruby, strong men also cry.

    I believe it is a problem for both men and women who live in the countries it is being aimed at, those with birth counts which are not enough to sustain their survival as a people and culture. Queer and/or sterilise the children and those countries/people/cultures can be destroyed quicker.

  131. Geri


    European countries recognised that decades ago & introduced policies that encouraged breeding with perks & benefits. Fully supported & the more the merrier.

    Not the UK. They demonise families. Can’t even mention a *free* baby box but the yoons go into meltdown about their taxes paying for everything. Only one allowed multiple sprogs are the Royals. Go figure.

  132. Northcode

    Men are from Earth – women are from…Earth.

    I’ve been told that I am naive about these matters (by both men and women) and I haven’t written about them until now because I fear that might be true and I’ll just end up offending folk – of both sexes.

    The fact is, though, women historically – and still to this day – have for a variety of reasons generally been treated badly by men. Even if they belonged to higher social classes, most women throughout history have been enslaved by men.

    They couldn’t own property or inherit land and wealth, and they were frequently treated as mere property themselves. In some countries they could be confiscated by money lenders or tax collectors to help settle debts.

    Despite their high level of testosterone, the men of many ancient and indigenous cultures revered women for their life-giving and nurturing role, so why don’t we (the men of today)?

    I hate confrontation (Is that a flaw in my character, I wonder). But I hate injustice and unfairness even more and I’d rather we all just set about making the world a better happier place for everyone – regardless of we are defined by nature or by ourselves.

    This from Steve Taylor:

    The oppression of women stems largely from men’s desire for power and control.

    The same need which, throughout history, has driven men to try to conquer and subjugate other groups or nations, and to oppress other classes or groups in their own society, drives them to dominate and oppress women.

    Since men feel the need to gain as much power and control as they can, they steal away power and control from women. They deny women the right to make decisions so that they can make them for them, leave women unable to direct their own lives so that they can direct their lives for them.

    Ultimately, they’re trying to increase their sense of significance and status, in an effort to offset the discontent and sense of lack created by humania (a term coined by Steve Taylor).

    Steve Taylor is a lecturer in psychology at Leeds Metropolitan University, UK. He is the author of The Fall, from which this was extracted

    We are all human – we should treat each other as equals and with dignity and respect. But I fear humanity has a bit more evolving to go through yet before it reaches such levels of enlightenment.

    History tells us that women have a genuine grievance against men for the way they have been treated by them across many centuries. I don’t believe that grievance can just be brushed aside. The men of today have to confront the legacy bequeathed to them by the men of the past.

    And only through a process of ‘truth and reconciliation’ can such a grievance be addressed and successfully resolved.

    Anyway, that’s my tuppence worth – for what it’s worth.

    Apologies if I’ve offended anyone.

  133. Ruby Monday

    Anton Decadent
    1 July, 2024 at 1:26 pm

    @Ruby, strong men also cry.

    Aye I know that. I don’t know if they are strong or not but there’s certainly a lot of greetin’ going on here BTL on Wings and it’s all my fault the self proclaimed dumb as fuck Ruby “poundshop Siobhan McFadyen”

    I’m here all by myself fighting for ‘women’s rights’ while Geri has gone back to bed.

    I’m going to add
    the self proclaimed dumb as fuck Ruby “poundshop Siobhan McFadyen
    to the list of names I have been called on this forum
    I’ll pop in in between scheemie and foul mouth harridan with tourettes

    I’ll also add

    penelope pitstop” r4pe fantasist

    No idea who that is but I’ll add it anyway.

  134. sam

    ForWomenScotland have looked at the different manifesto policies of a great many parties.

    Good work.

  135. Hatey McHateface

    @Northcode says:1 July, 2024 at 1:43 pm

    The men of today have to confront the legacy bequeathed to them by the men of the past

    Awa and shite.

    Every single one of us comes into this world innocent.

    Nobody bears any responsibility whatsoever for anything that happened before they were born.

  136. Confused

    Vicious and vindictive, hardly. In fact I was avoiding mentioning most of the twaddle being talked.

    Men, mostly, let women away with 99% of the shit they talk, because it makes for an easy life; it’s not worth it, they take it personal. When you finally “point something out” like say, in response to some mega-whine about “violence against women”, “mental health issues”, “life is horrible” – that, in fact : men are murdered at twice the rate of women, or commit suicide at 3 times the rate of women, or retire later but live shorter lives, or women don’t get sent to fight in wars or were sent down the pits, or the courts take it easy on women, or men almost never win child custody … it contradicts the narrative, and so you get shit for being a sexist, basically a bad person for “pointing things out”. Stating facts is now mansplaining, again, a bad thing.

    Specifically – about 30 years ago, there was a crisis in feminism; despite it being incredibly successful – all the battles were won, it was clear that men and women were not equal. Either you start to say – biology is real, men and women are different, and this then puts a stake through the heart of your feminist dogma, or – you double down; biology does not matter – the residual differences between men and women are down to sexism, patriarchy; this is the incredible conspiracy theory that men, as a collective, are all in it together against women, and we all communicate on some secret channel, like the borg. This is why the women demand access to any male space they find, no matter what it is (men are conspiring), whether it is a golf club, drinking club for luvvie actors, even the barber shop has had the lesbians demand male haircuts.

    – if biological differences are not really “real”, then we can smoothly move between the male/female with drugs and surgery. Sex is now a spectrum, right. You can see where this went and I will avoid the essay – you know enough of the rest to fill in the blanks.

    When you kick the stones off a mountain ridge, don’t throw up your hands in horror when there is an avalanche.

    Ordinary men got hammered in the de-industrialisation phase of the neoliberal program – and their wives and kids suffered for it. They were surplus to requirements; get a job in banking, or retrain as a stripper. You can’t totally deindustrialise though, and the majority of folk doing the dull, dirty, shite jobs for little pay, are still men, the guys the guardian calls “white racists” and Clinton called “the deplorables”; that they enjoy some kind of “privilege” is a sick joke, but it fulfills elite politics as the working class can now be demonised and attacked at will. Women should not buy into this.

    We should remember feminism starts out as rich broads, bored, and already enjoying enormous class privilege over 99% of men, wanting nice jobs for themselves; not change in the social order, not a better society – just more, for me; then the mad jewish feminists arrive and it goes nuts. Feminism, outside of socialism, can be as reactionary as you want.

  137. Anton Decadent

    @Geri “whereas, although the EU population has seen substantial growth in previous decades, the growth rate is now falling and the population is expected to decrease significantly in the longer term; whereas in 2015 the EU experienced the first natural population decline with more deaths than births; whereas in 2019 Europe accounted for just 6.9 % of the world’s population, and by 2070 it will account for less than 4 % of the world’s population, with sharp declines especially in Eastern and Southern Europe due to the combination of low fertility rates and net intra-EU migration from these areas; whereas long-term demographic trends in European regions continue to indicate lower birth rates and ageing societies except in some outermost regions, and particularly in Mayotte, where a population increase of 38 % is forecast by 2050 compared to 2010 levels, alongside a corresponding increase of 26 % for French Guiana.”

    @Ruby, I was quoting The Big Lebowski again. I respect you as a woman and as a human being and implore you to haul back the confrontational attitude as the naughty step is where some on here wish to see you permanently gulaged to. Choose your words and battles better.

  138. James Che


    As usual you did An excellent breakdown of statistics and logic.

    The sad thing is we have no idea how many of the trans group moved to Scotland and how many were actual long term Scots prior to the Stonewall agenda being promoted by the SNP and Greens,

    The only thing that I would debate is calling the devolved government sent to Scotland by labour, under Westminster legislation being called a Scottish parliament passing “Scots laws” ,
    As We are well aware in Scotland that the Scottish parliament closed in 1707 and Westminster has never repealed or reinstated that parliament,

    And westminster has the legislation hold enough to say aye or nay over pretty much anything done in their devolved parliament up here in Scotland when it wants to.

    Otherwise Loved your analyses, and the break down of Statistics of trans in the population,
    And as usual I loved all your lovely photos, in fact I have been missing them as an addition to your journalistic talents here on wings,

  139. sam

    “In a series of bizarre and insulting arguments, Wadhwa claims that women shouldn’t be concerned about male people in supposedly female spaces because we already operate in “a man’s world” and, outlandishly seems to suggest that because a planning officer or a finance minister might be male, women have no excuse to resist the presence of men in spaces specifically designed to protect women at an extreme moment: “my argument is that men are already in these women’s spaces, like, for example, a Rape Crisis Centre or a Women’s Aid, because who is making the decisions about how much money we get. About who you know, who gives us planning permission, it is not women alone.””

  140. Northcode

    It shouldn’t need to be stated, but apparently it does, that being bequeathed a legacy doesn’t make the recipient the originator of that legacy. Just the ‘beneficiary’.

  141. Sven

    Anton Decadent @ 14.17.

    Never mind, Anton, I read and note your posts; as well as appreciating your taste in literature. Just remember, “Nobody f**ks with The Jesus”.

  142. Ruby Monday

    Anton Decadent

    @Ruby, I was quoting The Big Lebowski again. I respect you as a woman and as a human being and implore you to haul back the confrontational attitude as the naughty step is where some on here wish to see you permanently gulaged to. Choose your words and battles better.

    That will be OK Anton I wouldn’t want to be somewhere I have to walk on eggshells for fear of offending some sexist misogynist pigs.

    I would advise you not to quote The Big Lebowski again because I lot of people haven’t seen that film. I would also advise you not to give advice to others it’s a bit patronising. ‘wagging finger emoji’
    Be a good boy!

    See what I did there?

    I think when you say ‘haul back the confrontation attitude’ you actually mean ‘shut up’

    Oh I am so naughty I should really be on the naughty step.

  143. sam

    Labour Manifesto on Conversion Practices:

    Full trans-inclusive ban on conversion practices, while protecting the freedom for people to explore their sexual orientation and gender identity.

    I would guess this could mean little/no treatment for gender dysphoria

  144. sam

    From ForWomenScotland’s analysis of SNP’s manifesto

    “The SNP has a proud record of advancing and championing LGBTI rights in government, and we will continue to build on this, working with LGBTI communities, to make Scotland a fairer and more equal place to live. With independence we would have the full powers to improve equality in law and society, and the ability to champion LGBTI equality internationally.

    We presume these full powers would include bringing back Gender Recognition Reform.

    John Swinney said on Radio Scotland that “transgender women are defined as women”, and told Women’s Hour that the single-sex provisions in the Equality Act are protecting the security and the safety of women and girls (from 3:53 mins):”

  145. Ruby Monday

    1 July, 2024 at 2:10 pm

    Men, mostly, let women away with 99% of the shit they talk

    Too kind!

    I wondering about that 1% that might get me sent to the naughty step.

    Any examples of this 1% that men don’t allow women to get away with?

    Your help is appreciated. I don’t think I deserve to be sent to the naughty step especially when there are so many poster being far more naughty than I am.

  146. Hatuey

    Northcode: “ The fact is, though, women historically – and still to this day – have for a variety of reasons generally been treated badly by men. Even if they belonged to higher social classes, most women throughout history have been enslaved by men.”

    Well, if it’s that bad why do so many men want to be women?


    Get out of that.

  147. sam


    “Nobody bears any responsibility whatsoever for anything that happened before they were born.”

    One can be responsible for a burden, for example.

    A women whose nutrition (for whatever reason) is not optimal can bear a child whose organs will not develop to the full potential.

  148. Anton Decadent

    @Sven 🙂

    @Ruby, I (think I) see what you did there, I remember the wagging finger. I do not want you to shut up, I just do not want you to get yourself banned.

  149. Ruby Monday

    Sam you have posted a lot of interesting links.

    I can’t listen or read any more of that stuff

    single sex spaces, equality act, protecting womens rights, what is a woman blah blah blah.

    All this can be solved by simply stopping sex changes.

    Repeal the GRA 2004. All sorted.

    Wadhwa claims that women shouldn’t be concerned about male people in supposedly female spaces

    Sounds a bit like the arguments being presented BTL on Wings by Hatuey.

  150. Northcode


    Now now, Ruby. You appear to be set on confronting your male superiors on equal terms. This cannot stand. Quite apart from the cheek of it you are, as a woman, incapable of matching their wit.

    However, in an attempt to soften this blow to your feminine ego, I would add in your favour that you appear to be one of those rare women who have a modicum of intelligence and a little talent for setting some almost coherent sentences down on a page.

    Well done! You are a clever girl and no mistake.

    However, it is important for you to realise that as a woman you can never attain the rarified heights of manhood.

    I tell you this with all the gentle paternal kindness I can muster; for I have found soft tones and kind words to be the least upsetting for fragile female sensitivities. We wouldn’t a fit of hysteria or a faint to come upon you, now would we?

    I am sure you are a wonderful cook and keep a tidy home. How proud you must be. I suspect your efforts at sewing and knitting display a remarkable talent for such homely pursuits.

    Perhaps a nice cup of tea will settle you down for a bit while you regain your composure.

    *(it goes without saying, although I’m saying it just in case, this entire comment is not to be taken seriously by anyone who might happen to come across it.)

  151. crazycat

    @ Hatuey at 2.54

    Well, if it’s that bad why do so many men want to be women?

    a) they remain male and therefore safe from some of the downsides b) they are sexually aroused by being discriminated against; it validates them as “women”.

  152. James Che


    Are you saying that you do not understand why so many men want to be half women, while growing full beards and still having a willie, and being allowed into spaces that are full of women and Children?
    Instead of fighting for their own toilets and changing rooms, etc, while to all intents and purposes they are still male,

    I would agree with them more iff that was what they wanted, to be recognised as trans- women, which means ( to cross over), to becoming a women,
    With the prefix trans- in front of the word “women” it means they have not yet crossed over Women in any sense of the word other than superficially.
    They are still men trying to access to being amongst children and women,

    Go look up the word Trans-

    Here is a example to start you off,

    Trans- Atlantic,= To go across the Atlantic,
    Not past tense =Gone Across- Atlantic.

  153. Ruby Monday

    Well, if it’s that bad why do so many men want to be women?


    Sissy Porn, bondage & being treated like a dog.

    Basically they want to be treated like a woman.

    You need to do more research Mr Hatuey

    “Sissy porn did make me trans”

    Andrea Long Chu

  154. sam


    Yup,yup,yep, yip and yap.

    Some of the links in WFS article are innarestin mebbe. Starmer getting told.

    I’ll hold me whisht.

    Did you know that Mahler’s aunt liked walks in the country? (real proppa country) She was also very musical. When she passed a five bar gate she sang the spots on her veil.

    Another link.

  155. Ruby Monday

    1 July, 2024 at 3:20 pm


    Now now, Ruby. You appear to be set on confronting your male superiors on equal terms. This cannot stand. Quite apart from the cheek of it you are, as a woman, incapable of matching their wit.

    SIT 🙂

    It’s a fine piece of writing but not very original.

    I have heard all that stuff many times before only it wasn’t in jest.

    I don’t have any of these womanly skills that you list I am not a normal woman

    At least that is how I’ve been described in the past.

    Instead of having a nice cup of tea as you suggested I’ll have a coffee made with my Nespresso machine.
    na na nana na!

    Have you got one yet?

  156. moixx

    Stuart MacKay @ 11.40am “The stale, pale males of this world are pretty pissed off at the treatment that’s been handed out to them for the past few decades.”

    Ian Smith @ 12.43 pm “Until we learn to stand up for ourselves and the normality that has built modern civilisation we are screwed.”

    Anton Decadent @ 1.26pm “Queer and/or sterilise the children and those countries/people/cultures can be destroyed quicker.”


    Whether you’re male or female, if you don’t 100% subscribe to it, the trans stuff is a common enemy. Wings has highlighted this many times. If you’re not for it, you’re against it, and you will suffer the consequences.

    The status of men in society has been undermined during the same period of time that the status of women has been undermined. It’s been a concerted effort to undermine both, and done in a way which pits each side against the other. Both sides are suffering, neither is ‘winning’ – male or female, we’re all just losing.

    Not wanting to act because you see it as supporting the very people you blame for what’s happened to men – ie women – will not help resolve any of the issues men are facing.

    The effects are already being seen – David Hannah highlighting the Men’s Shed issue is one of the few that’s been reported here, although it seems there’s more deep-rooted stuff going on too and it needs to come out.

    There’s always other issues that you can decide are more important. Scottish independence for example – most people on here who don’t want to discuss the trans stuff would agree that Scottish independence is much more important. While at the same time agreeing with yet another Wings article highlighting how the trans stuff has currently trashed the moves to Scottish independence.

    “What do we want?”
    “Scottish independence!”
    “Let’s talk about the thing that’s just ruined our best chance of getting it and how to stop it happening again!”
    “ Errm, let’s not – there’s other things that are more important….”

    Just ignoring it won’t make it go away. It’s been so successful, why wouldn’t it just be used again, whenever it’s needed?

  157. Northcode

    “I have heard all that stuff many times before only it wasn’t in jest.”

    Aye, Ruby, I don’t doubt you. Hence the disclaimer at the bottom of my comment.

    “I am not a normal woman.”

    Really? I would never have guessed if you hadn’t told me. 🙂

    “Have you got one yet?”

    No. I refuse to submit to peer pressure – especially if it comes from an abnormal woman.

    Got my Gaggia back – but it isn’t quite the same, I think it’s had its day. I might actually get a Nespresso machine. Not because you have one, though – I’m an independent thinker.

  158. Ebok

    Ian Smith @ 12.43pm

    ‘The woke rot is deep and liable to get worse before it gets better’

    A year after the start of New Labour’s second term, in 2002, a consultation began into Scottish education, and eight years later the ill-fated CfE was introduced.
    That was 3 years after SNP gained power and IMO continuing with its development was the greatest mistake ever made by Alex Salmond.

    Instead of scrapping it and structuring SCOTTISH education to one that reflected SCOTTISH values, history, and culture – one that would be of immense value in the lead up to and after we had achieved independence – he allowed Hyslop, then Russell, to continue with the experiment that has resulted in a freefall of standards in our schools, colleges and universities, as well as sending wrong and confusing signals to countless numbers of young people.

    Every child and youth born after 2005 has been inculcated throughout their entire school years via the disastrous CfE, and every young adult up to their late 20’s has been subjected to it for periods ranging from one to twelve years.
    So, yes Ian, it IS liable to get worse before it gets better.

  159. Northcode


    I forgot to put a smiley after ‘abnormal woman’. But I’m sure you know it was just a play on your ‘I’m not a normal woman’ line.

    Just in case, though…I thought it best to clarify.

  160. Tinto Chiel

    @Ebok 4.24: re the Curriculum for Excellence your are spot-on.

    It was a pile of Labour hogwash from the start designed to undermine the Scottish education system and stupefy the children. Unfortunately, AS went along with it, probably his second greatest mistake after resigning in 2014 and handing over the independence movement to Sturgeon.

    We must be pretty unique in Europe in not teaching our own history, languages and culture in a coherent way to our children, a real education which would rightly reject the Unionist narrative of post-1707 events.

    Given this, it’s a miracle we have support for independence hovering around 52%, frankly.

  161. sam

    I am not at all sure that the CfE has been as bad as its painted. Neither has it been as good as it might.

    here is the curriculum.

    Criticism of Scottish education that relies on PISA scores is plain crap.

  162. ronald anderson

    A Bruce 11.31 .

    Thanks for the nudge I ll phone Sally to get a update on her .

  163. sam

    “People of Medieval Scotland: People of Medieval Scotland is made up of 32 extensive resources on a range of topics focused on the lives of ordinary people in Scotland during medieval times. The topics range from ("Tractor" - Ed)s to castles and are informative and engaging.”

  164. Alf Baird

    Tinto Chiel @ 6:21 pm

    “We must be pretty unique in Europe in not teaching our own history, languages and culture in a coherent way to our children, a real education which would rightly reject the Unionist narrative of post-1707 events.”

    Aye, such oppression is par for the course in a culturally assimilated colonial society; but you would think AS might have known that a fowk’s verra ain cultur an langage helps form their identity.



  165. sam

    Alf, Children study Scottish history during the Medieval period. It has been designed to foster means of examining history critically.

    You didn’t even bother to look at the curriculum?

    What is your experience of the CfE?

    Scottish students in large numbers – over 80% – say their University studies enabled them to get the work they wanted and faster.

    What history did you study at school? This curriculum approach would have suited my learning much better than the narrow subject specialism I had.

  166. Tinto Chiel

    @Alf: yes but the trouble is, as Ebok noted, that our kids have been subjected to about twenty years of CfE crapola and, beyond that, ever since The Education (Scotland) Act of !872, our languages have been under attack and much else, since the “Scottish” HMIs (the Inspectorate) in the early years were centred in London and therefore liable to inculcating a Unionist perspective on history, language and culture.

    Our teachers have to be trained properly before our children can be taught and we are rapidly running out of time.

  167. sam

    A number of people here are working on prejudice and have no idea at all what the CfE comprises.

  168. Northcode

    The CfE is a load of incoherent and confusing nonsense. It isn’t a curriculum at all, and whatever it is, it certainly isn’t excellent :

    Implementation of CfE generated vast quantities of ill-thought-out guidance on content and methodologies.

    The sheer volume of it overwhelmed teachers and senior managers.

    The curriculum was couched in a series of childish ‘I can…’ statements which was both unprofessional and condescending to teachers. It lacked rigour; does ‘I can add two fractions’ mean ¼ + ¼ or 3/13 + 7/9?

    …If ever an educational initiative was misnamed, it has to be Curriculum for Excellence.

    Extract from an article on the website:

    ‘A once envied reputation trashed – why Scotland’s Curriculum for Excellence is anything but’

    by Carole Ford.

    Carole Ford is former headteacher of Kilmarnock Academy, former president of School Leaders Scotland and the co-author of several maths textbooks including the one most often used for Higher maths.

    The full article can be read here: Website – Carole Ford

  169. Northcode

    “Scotland’s worldwide reputation is now long gone and it will take a marathon effort to recover it.

    Scotland’s young people are no longer on a level educational playing field in an increasingly technological age which demands high standards.

    This is simply unfair on an individual level, and it is increasingly problematic for Scotland as a country.”

    Carole Ford

    The almost total destruction of Scotland’s once world-renowned education system is at best the result of the catastrophic incompetence of less than mediocre minds – at worst a deliberate act of sabotage.

  170. Alf Baird

    Northcode @ 9:33 pm

    “why Scotland’s Curriculum for Excellence is anything but’”

    Aye, CfE disnae e’en lairn oor ain Scots Langage tae Scots bairns in the shuils. A fowk’s langage teaches thaim wha thay are! Langage gies thaim thair ain identity, distinguishes thaim fae ither fowk, gies thaim thair place in the warld. Withoot thair ain langage a fowk are makkit (assimilated) intae something else.

    Aw teachers in oor kintra juist need a Higher in English tae teach Scots bairns. Thay shuid hiv Higher Scots an aw. But thar isnae ony Higher Scots taucht in CfE!

    A fowk deprived o thair ain langage is linguistic imperialism – a fowk doun-hauden (oppressed).

  171. sam

    Aye Northcode – Carole Ford. Says this –

    “There has been a continuing concern about the Scottish education system for some years now, thrown into sharp relief by declining results from the international Pisa studies, the recent depressing OECD report and the effects of the pandemic.”

    Educationally, she’s a numpty if she thinks PISA tells you anything useful.

    From The Conversation

    “Many academics and educators critique PISA as an economic measurement, not an educational one. The media generally use PISA results to blame and shame school systems. And the way that some politicians, policy-makers and researchers have used PISA is more closely aligned to a political process than an educational one.

    There are many reasons to be skeptical about PISA rankings and how they’re used to compare student achievement or to identify best practices or solutions for educational problems.”

    I can’t find any detail as to actual measurements of violence in Schools. Just Union surveys. Such surveys run counter to what is happening outside schools, apparently. Outside schools, violence and crime, including among young people is decreasing.

    There are likely to be a number of reasons behind any actual stats. Poverty, austerity, structural issues beyond the control of any Scottish gov, whatever the hue.

    I’ll give you 3 out of 10. need to do better.

    What about Highers as an indication of success/failure?

    The overall A-C pass rate for Scottish Highers was 78.9%, up from prepandemic level of 74.8% in 2019, but lower than rates in 2020 and 2021. There was a similar trend in Advanced Highers where the A-C pass rate in 2022 was 81.3%, above the level in 2019 (79.4%) but lower than in 2020 and 2021.

  172. David

    Would be interesting to see how much pandering to this tiny group has cost the government, organisations and companies. Someone is making a hell of a lot of money out of it.

  173. sam

    PISA in the USA (and the UK)

    “By scrutinizing the performance of the United States versus other OECD countries, the unshocking conclusion should be that the PISA test is largely a measure of childhood poverty rates rather than academic achievement. The United States leads the OECD in child poverty. Our rate of child poverty is approximately 26%, and higher by some measures. Thus it is not surprising that as a nation we do not perform as well as most other OECD countries on PISA. If you compare the tranche of American schools with poverty rates equal to those of other OECD countries, however, the United States does quite well.”

  174. Northcode

    “I’ll give you 3 out of 10. need to do better.”

    I’m disappointed, Sam.

    If only there were some curriculum for excellnec I could follow to improve my score (and my spelling). Sadly, I live in Scotland and there isn’t one.

    Like you, though, I find myself leaning away from PISA. It’s a towering example of something built on a poor foundation – like the CfE.

    Anyway, anything touted as excellent when the evidence suggests that it’s as far removed from excellent as cheese is from the Moon is either a con-trick or…no, it’s just a con-trick – newspeak, like the Ministry for Justice or the ministry of Commonsense or the Ministry of Love.

    Now I must drink coffee before ‘the monster’ emerges from its caffeine induced slumber.

    Unlike some lucky folk, I don’t own a fancy Nespresso machine and must make do with my clapped-out Gaggia. Which used to score 10 out of 10 in delivering decent coffee, but now only scores 5 out of 10. It’s almost as clapped-out as I am .

  175. sam

    The evidence you’ve supplied Northcode is an opinion by Carole Ford which entirely overlooks the flaws in PISA scores.

    The PISA scoring requires countries to use a representative sample of children, selected at random.

    For the most recent result England did not select a wide enough range of children, raising the suspicion they were gaming the system.

    Scotland selected much more widely than England though just falling short of the PISA criterion. It was much more representative than England.

    Self reporting is what countries do.

    PISA is a quantitative rather than qualitative method. It is underpinned by an assumption about the relationship between science and mathematics test scores and economic development. Which research finds does not exist.

    PISA can take no account of the wide range of beliefs, cultural values and teaching practice that different countries have. The scores are not objective, not facts.

    England now seeks to copy the Scottish approach to curriculum development.

  176. James Che

    I have had a a terrible early years experience in Scottish education,
    I was given the belt or cane for not speaking or writing the Queens English at school, but it went further than the class room,
    If anyone was caught speaking Scottish or Gaalic in the play ground, their play time was cut short and they were bought indoors and stand in a corner until class room lessons resumed.

    On the other side of the coin due to my fathers employment I did a few years schooling, in Wales, Wales, at the time of Wales were a bit too enthusiastic in reviving their cultural language,
    All the classroom questions were asked in Welsh including the English lesson,, and you did not get options or help in translations, you were expected to learn it quick or loose,
    I did not have time to learn before my final exams.

    The Welsh method in cutting out English Language in Schools was as harsh on children as was the English method of cutting out the Scottish languages in Scotland,

    Somewhere in between the must be a happy medium in being able to learn your own natural language in a separate class room and a secondary language in a separate class room. As is done in German and French for example.

    To have to contend with only being taught a foreign language to your native tongue is Colonialism but it is not dissimillar when done to children the other way around,
    Being dyslexic and parlial deaf from childhood was difficult enough in School as a Child without the contest of languages,
    Mother tongue first and a second language taught in School.

    Every phrase, sentence or word I write here was self- taught from outside the education systems by locking myself in a bathroom with a dictionary month after month year on year, much to exasperation of my family,

    The combination of imposed un- natural language diverted from my mother tongue , dyslexia and child hood deafness played a massive part in achievements and goals I had ambitions of to become a Archaeologist and geologist.

    I had to fall back on natural but untaught skills I was born with, 1 Art, 2: A gift of the gab to be able talk my way into self invented employment, 3 A friendly attitude,
    With these three natural skills I talked my way into becoming a cartoonist for too local newspapers later on life,

    Mother tongue and a secondary Language must be as compatibly natural as nature to a child from an infant at home and in Schooling.
    Otherwise the child suffers from the impact of Adults insensibilities.

  177. Northcode

    “England now seeks to copy the Scottish approach to curriculum development.”

    That almost makes me feel sorry for England’s schoolkids.

    But I’m more interested in how the children of my own country, Scotland’s children, have been, and still are, denied a decent education – fobbed-off with some hyperbolic meaningless drivel consisting of nothing more than vacuous statements of dubious intent, coloured-in pictures and musical chairs.

    The CfE follows the pattern that all lies follow – huge on detailed but empty distraction to divert from the truth. The truth can always be simply stated – lies require twisted and tortuous convolutions as they vainly attempt to convince of a truth where none exists.

    The CfE is a lie. It isn’t excellent and it isn’t a curriculum and it cannot possibly deliver a rounded and comprehensive foundational ‘education’ for Scots children. In layman’s terms the CfE is a pile of useless shit – you can tell by how bad it smells.

    PISA is irrelevant.

    I’m now going to formulate a reply to Alf Baird’s comment @6:52am. A comment which is not only true and simply stated, but is stated in my own language.

  178. sam

    You’re behind the times – educational supplement.

    All I read from you is assertion. You need to go back to school.

  179. sam

    “the CfE is a pile of useless shit – you can tell by how bad it smells.”

    Spot the difference.

    “Curriculum for Excellence in context
    Scotland’s Curriculum for Excellence (CfE) offers an inspiring and widely supported philosophy of education. Its framework allows for effective curricular practices and for the possibility of a truly fulfilling education for learners. Building upon its commitment to education quality, Scotland can make adjustments within CfE’s flexible framework to achieve its potential for learners present and future.”

    Now which is more persuasive? Assertions about a pile of dung or an intergovernmental organisation?

  180. Northcode

    “Scotland says that, with the right conditions in place, Scottish headteachers are ready to drive reform”

    Interesting article on what could be done with ‘maybe’ and ‘what if’ and so on…

    If only Scotland weren’t a colony reform might happen – but it won’t as long as Scotland remains colonised.

    Have I ever once been rude to you? That’s twice now for you.

    You’re obviously my intellectual superior. I cannot compete. We’re done here.

  181. Northcode

    “Now which is more persuasive?”

    The truth. Now we’re done.

  182. sam


    I don’t think I have been rude to you. But if you think so, I apologise.

    I doubt if I’m your intellectual superior. I have for the last ten years or more read about Scottish education which is far from perfect and there are reasons for the CfE being imperfect that are to do with the governments (Lab included), the local authorities and teachers and their Unions.

    I don’t take the implication in what btl says about Scottish education – that 20 years of Scottish education has been poor. What it has been is politicised.

  183. sam

    The truth is (according to Psychology Today) “a feature of language used to emphasize, agree, or hypothesize, or for stylistic purposes.”

  184. Northcode

    “I don’t take the implication in what btl says about Scottish education – that 20 years of Scottish education has been poor.”

    It isn’t an implication – it’s a statement of fact. A proposition that is impossible to argue against – because it is true. A premise derived from experience not imaginative speculation.

    Getting a high score in a worthless exam is a meaningless metric. Getting an average score in a real test of knowledge is far more meaningful, and valuable.

    Not only to the student, but also to a society in its ability to accurately measure the progress of its young folk as they mature in their knowledge of the real world and in their ability to think critically – and more importantly, to think for themselves.

    To be themselves and not have their identity and self-worth dictated by the worthless opinions of mediocre minds and madmen.

    We find ourselves living in the age of mediocre man. An age where simple minds are swayed by the slightest of breezes to give credence to the most outlandish nonsense – what a fucking bore.

    I hope my profane use of ‘bad’ language doesn’t weaken my argument – but then again…I don’t really give a fuck.

    I need more coffee – the monster is awakening.

    Oh, and I accept your apology – let’s see how things go.

    I’m mostly disappointed that you didn’t get my joke about the leaning tower of PISA. That’s what’s really pissing me off. Now, where’s my fucking coffee.

  185. Alf Baird

    sam @ 8:28 pm

    “look at the curriculum?”

    Aye, lat us aw ken whan ye fund ‘Higher Scots Langage’, tho A widna haud ma breith.

  186. Northcode

    Sorry, Alf. Got distracted by that Sam.

    But your comment @6:52am is spot on.

    I wanted to reply in Scots but other, admittedly less important, stuff is demanding my attention. Maybe later. Not being taught my own leid in my own country means I have to give it some thought and it doesn’t trip of my tongue as it should do.

  187. Hatuey

    I used to be an educationalist.

    Then I got educated…

  188. Northcode

    Good afternoon, Mrs Che,

    I hope you and your spouse are having a good day.

    I’ve successfully returned the ‘monster’ to its cage and I am now in a more polite and reasonable frame of mind.

    I’m going to buy a Nespresso coffee machine (or similar)- can’t have that Ruby mocking me for relying on a clapped-out old Gaggia.

    Plus it’ll make an emergency coffee quicker than my current machine – you can see how important that is when the ‘monster is on the prowl and needs to be tamed. 🙂

  189. sam

    I got the joke. I wasn’t inclined to comment.

  190. sam

    Alf, are you still of the belief that Scots history is not taught in schools?

    From the HoC Library. There’s where the funding for Scotland’s education went, including funding for languages.

    Spouting a lot of colonialist tropes going on here.

    “When expressed as a proportion of GDP, education spending peaked in 2009-10 and 2010-11 at around 5.4%, its highest since the mid-1970s. The subsequent decline took it down to below 3.9% in 2018-19, its lowest level for almost two decades. There was a small increase in 2019-20, the first since 2010-11. Higher education spending in 2020-21 combined with the sharp cut in GDP due to the pandemic meant there was a sharp increase in spending as a percentage of GDP in 2020-21 of almost 0.5 percentage points to 4.4%.”

  191. sam


    “It isn’t an implication – it’s a statement of fact.”

    As a matter of fact it’s an opinion. Dressing it up doesn’t change that.

    “Truth is a property not so much of thoughts and ideas but more properly of beliefs and assertions. But to believe or assert something is not enough to make it true,..”

    And that’s the truth.

  192. Northcode

    I know you got the joke – lighten up, Sam. I’m only joshing with you.

    Are we still on speaking terms?

    Education is a touchy subject for me. I was a primary school teacher until I was unfairly dismissed without notice.

    Who knew parents didn’t want their kids taught how to enunciate foul language and swear words properly? We didn’t have the CfE to guide us teachers back then.

    “Always pronounce the ‘ing’ at the end.” I would tell them. “Otherwise you’ll come across as common.”

  193. Northcode

    “Truth is a property not so much of thoughts and ideas but more properly of beliefs and assertions. But to believe or assert something is not enough to make it true,..”

    I don’t know who said that – you don’t say, but whoever it was is wrong. It was said by someone who gets it all wrong and then states the obvious at the end of all their wrongness.

    However, as a matter of opinion my fact is a statement of fact. And I don’t do ‘dress up’. Not since that incident involving a clothes line, a pair of women’s pantaloons, and a policeman, anyway.

    The truth is this; all truth is relative to other truths – and the fundamental truth of our existence is that everything we consider real is all just a ‘dream’. – or a nightmare, depending on ones perspective.

    I was never a teacher by the way (I made that up) – what a ridiculous notion.

  194. Alf Baird

    sam @ 2:22 pm

    “Scots history is not taught in schools?”

    My comment did not refer to history, it concerned the fact the Scots language is not taught in Scotland’s schools, and not to Higher level, nor indeed at degree level in our country’s own universities.

    However, on the matter of ‘our’ national history, postcolonial theory tells us that “the colonized is no longer a part of history”. Indeed, according to Albert Memmi, the colonial ruler “endeavors to falsify history, he rewrites laws, he would extinguish memories – anything to succeed in transforming his usurpation into legitimacy”.

    And so, Scots bairns arena taught about the genocide, the clearances, the use of Scots armies to fight numerous imperial wars, British policy leading to mass out-migration of Scots (‘banishment of natives’, 3-4 million!), the military occupation of Scotland, the annexation, the economic plunder, or the ‘Union’ treaty hoax.

    Disnae maitter whit we cry education initiatives in a colony, it is aye a ‘colonial education’.

  195. Northcode


    I feel it is I who owe you an apology. You presented your views on the CfE and I reacted facetiously, and perhaps took offence where none was intended.

    And although I’ve never been involved in the formal education of our young folk it’s something I feel strongly about.

    I disagree with you on the merits of the CfE and I do believe that it doesn’t best serve the educational needs of Scotland’s young folk – by design or otherwise. But that’s the nature of argument and there’s nothing wrong in that.

    I like many of your posts and you frequently enlighten with your knowledge, wit, and links to useful and interesting information.

    You attempted to engage in argument and I feel that I responded poorly.

    I hope you’ll forgive my smartassedness.

  196. James Che

    Alf Baird,

    Well said,

  197. Northcode

    “Disnae maitter whit we cry education initiatives in a colony, it is aye a ‘colonial education’. ”

    And therein lies the problem, Alf. While Scotland is treated as a colony there will be no reforming of her educational system in any way that might possibly benefit the Scots. And that includes Scots children being taught their own language beyond tinkering at its edges.

  198. sam


    Upthread you agreed with this.

    “We must be pretty unique in Europe in not teaching our own history, languages and culture in a coherent way to our children, a real education which would rightly reject the Unionist narrative of post-1707 events.”

    Of course history is taught to our children in a coherent way. They are taught Medieval history which will include Wallace, Bruce, Dalliol and the Wars of Independence.

    It is a coherent approach, it just does not include the history you want taught.

    The resources and supporting documents were produced by Joanna Tucker from the University of Glasgow, with Dr John Reuben Davies and Professor Dauvit Broun.

    Here’s a challenge. If you feel sure of your ground why don’t you write to them with your views and see what answer you get? Post your letter and answer as a guest blog here?

  199. Alf Baird

    sam @ 8:19 pm

    “If you feel sure of your ground”

    There is little doubt that in a colony the institutions are colonial in terms of their values, and especially the most status-conferring, the universities. Only a fool believes they are there to serve the needs of the native:

  200. sam


    What should I take from that elusive response?That not only the institutions but all the people who work in them have colonial values?

    Of course, if you took up my challenge you might be able to demonstrate the accuracy of your claim, rather than asserting it.

    Institutions are composed of people so I do believe that you are asserting that all who work in Scottish institutions have colonial values.

    For clarity, what are these values?

  201. James Che


    It is without doubt a Colonial education system in Scotland and has been for a long time as Alf Baird States,

    But instead of thrying theoretical theory at higher levers such as universities or higher is is played out in primary children’s class room, where little more than toddlers are punished against speaking there natural language,
    You seemed to have ignored my comment over this Colonial teachings that I myself went through, in primary School, get them while they are young attitude,

    I do not come from a poorly educated back ground through my parents proir education status, as my mother was a Secretary and my father was a medic in the Army,
    But I became poorly educated in the Colonial imposed Schooling in Scotland wherein I had to suffer constant beatings for not speaking and writing the Queens English as it was said in my day,

    It is an insult to anyones intelligence that was actually educated in the average Scottish School in my day not to have come across this attitude that you will speak the same lanuage as the Colonising Country,

    It is also noted that the Highlands and Island seems to have been targeted quite profusely from Glasgow upwards,
    In addition to the language, it is with out doubt that the demographics of the Scottish speaking population areas were also targeted.
    Having seen advertisements for many a year and still do, from union MSM advertising sources , houses, crofts, land, large Estates and whole Islands themselves for Sale in the territory of Scotland but in Newspapers south of the border,
    It is not only language enforcing the Natural language and Culture of Scotland to disappear demographically but Geographically as well,
    When Language is banned of the natural inhabitants and the land of the natural inhabitants is sold of to a foreign highest bidder,
    And when the resources are leached away from the natural inhabitants through imposed new laws, that is Colonialism.
    And arguing one point alone as you are doing is not justifiable,
    Alf, does mention Language but if you have read his posts over the years in all there totality, you will then begin to understand that Colonialism often begins with language and progresses into all speres of life of the natural inhabitants of what was their way of life, removes their rights and sells of their territory to outsiders in a piece meal fashion over the coming generations.

  202. James Barr Gardner

    Alf Baird

    Disnae maitter whit we cry education initiatives in a colony, it is aye a ‘colonial education’.

    The top fifty printing companies in the UK are all in England except one in Scotland (it and it’s company officers are all registered in England). When it comes to books they’re all printed in England and written by English authors.

    Printing like many successful Scottish industries was shut down and moved south, it is still going on today.

    More cash extracted from Scotland ……….and all going south.

  203. Alf Baird

    sam @ 8:55 am

    “For clarity, what are these values?”

    You only have to look at what these institutions and their leadership do and what they believe to be significant, in what they promote, and what they do not promote, who they employ and who they do not employ, which students they permit access to and which not, who they award with honorary degrees and who not.

    For example, in a country where half the population seek liberation, where is the movement and support for national liberation within Scotland’s academic institutions? It is non-existent, even among the student body, not least because many if not most of them come from outside Scotland. As they do not do anything to support national liberation this tells us that the academic institutions, much like most other (colonial) institutions, are anti-independence.

    Here’s a wee clue as to the values, what they deem significant, i.e. the priorities of our institutions:

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