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Wings Over Scotland


The Three Fates

Posted on February 20, 2023 by

So this is interesting. Last week we were about to release some results from our latest Panelbase poll when events intervened. Naturally we’d asked a few questions about gender issues, and one of them concerned the Scottish Government’s potential legal challenge to the UK government’s use of a Section 35 order to block the Gender Recognition Reform bill.

There were three options in the question, and as luck would have it the three potential new leaders of the SNP each advocates a different one.

We asked an unusually long question to be fair to each option:

“The Scottish Government has announced that it currently intends to mount a legal challenge to the UK government’s intervention over the Gender Recognition Reform bill, which is likely to be ultimately determined in the Supreme Court at a significant cost to Scottish and UK taxpayers.

The UK government has urged the Scottish Government to instead work with it to present an amended version of the bill which is compliant with UK law, while women’s-rights campaigners have called on them to drop the bill completely.

What do you think the Scottish Government should do?”

Humza Yousaf supports the first option:

Kate Forbes has come out for the second option:

And Ash Regan has chosen the third option:

So who’s got the public with them?

Short answer: Ash Regan does. She edges it by a couple of points over Kate Forbes’ compromise view – which is basically unachievable other than by ditching the entire key concept of self-ID and making the bill pointless – while just over one in five Scots back Humza Yousaf’s plan to take it to court (which would take many months, cost a fortune and have very little chance of success, while keeping the damaging issue at the forefront of the news agenda).

However, it’s more complicated than that. SNP supporters break the other way:

Among those who voted for the party in 2021, Yousaf’s challenge narrowly beats Forbes, with Regan well behind. However, this poll was conducted prior to the resignation of Nicola Sturgeon, so we have to consider that the loyalty vote may have played a significant part. And even then, only a third of SNP supporters want the Scottish Government to challenge the S35, with 50% supporting the other two options (which amount to the same thing).

Those are the same numbers found in our poll and others when the public has been asked whether they supported the UK government’s intervention.

That’s our poll, here’s another from a few days earlier with almost identical figures:

However you slice it, the GRR is a massive albatross around the SNP’s neck. At best only a third of their own voters want it pursued, and it’s completely toxic to everyone else who they want might to win over to their cause.

Who becomes the party’s next leader, then, could very well have a defining effect on the prospects not only for the SNP, but for independence itself. We hope its members take that responsibility seriously. There’s a lot at stake.

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0 to “The Three Fates”

  1. Neil M
    Ignored
    says:

    How serious are the Sturgeon cult in saying if they lose the the election to ither Ash or Kate, they will elect someone else as FM. This appears in comments all over the Nation from reliable cultist posters.

  2. Mark Boyle
    Ignored
    says:

    Um, Stu, at five o’clock on Channel 4 today Kate Forbes gave a very emphatic GITF to GRRC

    ‘I don’t support self-identification.’

  3. Den
    Ignored
    says:

    Kill the bill

  4. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s more than an albatross. It’s a death sentence. They will never recover

  5. Jim McIntosh
    Ignored
    says:

    Should be an interesting election. Kate Forbes has just announced she wouldn’t have backed the bill if she’d been in parliament.

  6. Tommo
    Ignored
    says:

    From the above I would infer that;
    Yousuf is thick but would preserve however briefly some tattered shreds of dignity for the the previous years of the Leaderette’s
    rule (And for her ‘administration’ and those who supported her) -and so will probably win
    Forbes is running with the hare and hunting with the hounds and will probably come a plucky second and
    Reagan has some tenuous grip on reality and is therefore beyond the pale for SNP supporters and will likely fail.

  7. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Continuing from a thread on the last article. Why Scots in England shouldn’t get to vote. 78% would vote no. Some 900k would be added to the numbers. 20%!! which would be a disaster on those numbers.

    There is a reason people like Ruth Davidson were pushing for this. Something happens to Scots when they reside in England too long. Not all Scots, but the majority. They become more British.

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19387889.scottish-independence-figures-behind-plan-give-scots-across-uk-indyref-vote/

  8. Garavelli Princip
    Ignored
    says:

    On the BBC tonight Ms Forbes said she arrived at her conclusion after consulting with ‘normal’ people!

    Oh dear! – much, much too much in touch with reality for the freaks, perverts and cultists that now form such a huge part of her party.

    That word ‘normal’ is sooooo TRANSphobic!

    Off with her…. whatever!

    She’s done!

  9. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    We want Scottish Independence. We want self determination for our nation. We do not want self identification.

    Kill the bill. Scotland says, before Scotland says No thanks, to the SNP and gender self ID.

  10. Stephen
    Ignored
    says:

    Why doesn’t Humza drop the GRR case like he did with the nursery discrimination case on 7 Feb around the same time as Stewart MacDonald email archive was compromised and just before the FM resigned? 😉

  11. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m leaning towards Regan, we know Yousaf is toxic so he’s out, I heard Forbes give an interview on Radio Shortbread aka Radio Scotland a few hours ago, when asked about the GRRB, she was more annoyed at Westminster blocking a Holyrood law than she was about the effects of the law on Scottish women and children’s safe spaces.

    What really sealed the deal for Regan was when Forbes was asked about the 50+1 victory in an indyref, and Forbes to my surprise didn’t fancy it, instead she said that the indy movement needs to get the indy figure to a point where Westminster would need to get around the table.

    If Regan does manage to pull it off and becomes FM, I hope she lives up to our expectations with regards to independence.

  12. willie
    Ignored
    says:

    Fifty percent say the SNP policies make them less likely to vote for independence.

    And Turkey Time Dumbza wants to push on. He’s toilet time material and the electorate know it.

    As for Kate Forbes she comes across as a wee sneak. cowered in the corner, kept away from debate and objection to something that her faith most certainly rejects. She’d decry her God that one if it suited her political positioning.

    Ash Regan. Know nothing about her save that she had the courage to oppose GRR. Maybe, that makes her the best of the bunch and streets ahead of the whacky me poor minority Dumbza, and the hypocritical Christian, who like a certain disciple would deny her faith.

    Turkey time I’m afraid. The bonfire of the wasters is coming. Time the SNP was abandoned in favour of a new movement.

  13. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @Garavelli P. 7.28: yes, I noticed that myself and imagined the Wokeroonies frothing at such heresy, and I’m not even convinced by Forbes as it happens (doesn’t matter onnywise since I’m no longer an SNP member).

    I’m also astonished that anyone wants to give expatriate Scots a vote on independence. In my experience, they are almost exclusively anti-independence, including my elder brother. That, combined with a “civic nationalism” vote for anyone who happens to live in Scotland at the time of any referendum is a sure-fire way to condemn us to Dependence for eternity.

  14. ScottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    Kind of hoping it’s humza or ash.
    If it’s ash then it appears to be game-on.
    If it’s humza, then I can dismiss the SNP altogether, forget all about them, watch the labour gravy train pull in and go do something more fun.
    If it’s Kate, it would appear more a maybes aye maybes naw. Can’t be doing with any of that.

  15. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Tinto. It should be a 10 year residency for non Scots to get a vote in any referendum. I would also make it 5 years for an election. But that would be too non PC to get agreed.

  16. laukat
    Ignored
    says:

    Not too impressed with Forbes answer on Independence, she needs to be stronger and clearer on what she would actually do. She seems to be presenting herself as the best colonial administrator and focusing on her being a competent pair of hands. Her answer to the GRR is a bit of a fudge to demonstrate her religious beliefs won’t compromise her political actions.

    With Forbes trying to present as the middle ground candidate she opens the door for Regan and to an extent Yousaf. Regan and Yousaf both have more identifiable stances on the bigger issues that a wing of the party will identify with. Not so sure how big the centre of the SNP is any more and if Forbes will get enough votes by trying to play in that ground.

    Can easily see Forbes getting 2nd choices from both Humza and Regan voters and therefore making the final 2. Not so sure she wins in a head to head against either.

  17. Jacqueline
    Ignored
    says:

    Pity the ingenious Scottish lost out. Oh my. God sake I’m one of them. Unfortunately my Son and Daughter have fucked off into the sunset. Like my Dad and Uncle. They had no choice. Jobs. No jobs in Scotland. It’s worse now. Can’t buy a flat never mind a house. Well done the takeover

  18. 100%Yes
    Ignored
    says:

    If you have to ask God for an opinion your not the right person for the SNP or FM job, because you’ll be a long time dead and never get a reply.

    For me Ash Regan is the right person for the job.

  19. Tommo
    Ignored
    says:

    Tinto Chiel says; ‘I’m also astonished that anyone wants to give expatriate Scots a vote on independence. In my experience, they are almost exclusively anti-independence, including my elder brother.’
    That may be because they have the wider world view that Scots have traditionally had and have tuned in to Sanity FM.

  20. MrRocknRoll
    Ignored
    says:

    Good to see that Ash Regan has common (weal) sense when it comes to his GRR madness. She also sounds like getting us back on the road to Indy, (“She’s adopted the independence policy proposed by Wings two days ago, and wants to discuss it with the entire Yes movement, including ALL the other pro-indy parties”). All good so far.. Plus the fact that she obviously likes Wings, I mean, wasn’t her great uncle Jack part of the Flying Squad?? (Last line for the more mature Wings’ readers).

  21. President Xiden
    Ignored
    says:

    Instructive to note that STV news thought fit to question one candidates fitness for office due to her religious persuasion but never question another’s fitness for same reason. I would say that is a text book case of discrimination.

  22. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Laukat. Many of the moderate SNP voters left during the Sturgeon era. So that might hinder Kate. The party is packed with zoomers and gender fanatics. That may favour Humza. However there may be enough solid indy supporters who back Ash on her radical beliefs on independence.

    Kate has disappointed a lot of people a few hours after her candidacy.By shying away from 50+1 route to independence. Ultimately we don’t know how many of the cult are left in the membership.

    Humza isn’t well thought of by anyone I know.

  23. Livionian
    Ignored
    says:

    I only think Forbes’ plan is do nothing, let the bill fail as the UK government refuse to give much in negotiation, so the bill fails whilst she can tacitly claim that it wasn’t her or the SNP trying to kill it. She is trying to appeal to both sides.

    Either it works or both sides end up thinking she lacks conviction. Will be interesting to see if it is the former or the later.

  24. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    John Thaw ……

  25. ScottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    @MrRocknRoll

    Good ole John thaw.
    Used to love that series. Can’t get the song out of my head now!

  26. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @Big Jock: yes, I agree some period of residence should permit non-Scots a vote, which is reasonable (depending on the term, which should be longer than that of a university degree, so at least five years, to exclude temporary students).

    Could I vote, for example, in a French election (apart from a local one) or a referendum? No, and for a good reason, because I am not a French citizen.

    You’re either a Scot or you’re not (and many people living here aren’t, and increasingly so).

    I don’t see what’s so hard about that concept.

  27. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Kate Forbes is against gay marriage.

    She’ll never get voted in now.

    It’s Ash Regan vs Humza Yousaf.

  28. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    The National is still printing letters from (usually) men who think that women and children should just take their wee selves out of the equation by rolling over to these paraphiliacs. They seem to blame women for all the bad publicity, as if we are not allowed to fight our own corner. If this bill is taken to the Supreme Court, not only will the SG lose, but the SNP will be finished. In the longer term, ditching the Greens would be the better proposal.

    Humza is toast. Kate Forbes will not be able to work out a compromise because there is none that does not betray women and children, so that leaves Ash Regan, unless someone else steps into the fray. If Ash Regan gets the job, all she needs to do is not apply the whip. Job done. She is going to need every fibre of her strength to fight off the deviants, though, and some of them are sitting on each of the various party benches. It is the GRC, and, therefore, the 2004 GRA that need to be scrapped now or this stuff will never go away. The GRC confers ‘legal womanhood’ on ‘trans’, and that has to be stopped. They all want a GRC so that they can breach and violate female spaces, services, sex-based jobs, sports, healthcare, hospital wards, et al. A very restricted form of GRC could be devised that allows for a very limited legal fiction, but confers no access to biological female spaces, etc. Third spaces are now the only option.

    The one thing that has emerged is that any treating with Westminster on independence is out of the window. It is going to be a confrontational path now. It was always going to come to that.

  29. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Yeah its definitely Regan over Forbes for me.

    “I know I’m a bit of a cynic, but the timing of a shock resignation, changing the SNP Constitution rules, shortening the 3 months odd leadership contest to one month) has nothing to do with the date Kate was due to return from maternity leave, has it”

    https://twitter.com/nairnkev/status/1627642724097597441?cxt=HHwWgoCx8eKbxpYtAAAA

  30. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    The Stonewall National Green Party are in meltdown.

  31. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Also it would appear in Regan’s Mission Statement that the 50+1% is acceptable is a clear instruction to leave the union, so yeah Regan is the preferred candidate.

    https://twitter.com/indyscotnews/status/1627391590187823105?cxt=HHwWgsDTue2B1JUtAAAA

  32. Alan A
    Ignored
    says:

    The least bad scenario would be to kill the bill outright but that risks upsetting some millennials… so no downside really.

  33. ben madigan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Big Jock who said “Something happens to Scots when they reside in England too long. Not all Scots, but the majority. They become more British.”

    Think Scots becoming more British than the English is a survival mechanism. A question of fitting in with the prevailing environment i.e. neighbours, workmates etc so as not to draw attention to the fact they were “not English” and avoid any anti-Scot “bantering”.

    I do know the Irish in England very quickly adopted an English accent for these very reasons

  34. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    Tommo: “Tinto Chiel says; ‘I’m also astonished that anyone wants to give expatriate Scots a vote on independence. In my experience, they are almost exclusively anti-independence, including my elder brother.’
    That may be because they have the wider world view that Scots have traditionally had and have tuned in to Sanity FM.”

    Except in my brother’s case, perhaps, where Sanity FM meant the Daily Express and the BBC.

    How can you have “a wider world view” when your own country doesn’t really exist in such a world?

  35. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Thinking of Ashten Reagan as FM, her negative stance on the GRRB, would hopefully see the unelectable Green ministers stand down from their Holyrood government posts, this would be a step in the right direction.

  36. President Xiden
    Ignored
    says:

    David Hannah says:
    20 February, 2023 at 8:38 pm
    Kate Forbes is against gay marriage.

    What is Humza’s view on gay marriage?

  37. Alan A
    Ignored
    says:

    I can see Forbes falling into the trap of trying to please everyone but pleasing no-one. I really don’t see any real transformational leaders within the line-up. No big beasts to disrupt the status quo. That’s because Nicola hogged that podium so bad, no one else got a look in!

  38. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Forbes has already sold out Scotland with the Tory Free Ports. Shocking management already. She should be nowhere near Bute House. Nowhere near.

  39. Tommo
    Ignored
    says:

    – Tinto Chiel;’How can you have “a wider world view” when your own country doesn’t really exist in such a world?’
    We shan’t agree; but is your brother no longer Scottish, then ?
    And if he is not, then what of the many ‘new Scots’ who add to your cultural diversity ?

  40. laukat
    Ignored
    says:

    @Big Jock – I agree, I think the SNP is still fairly representative of Scotland which in itself is still largely socially conservative.

    Also think its worth noting that Sturgeon got elected as leader without ever having to present her policies and ideas in any form of contest. The membership assumed she would take similar approaches to Salmond in governing Scotland. Not sure she would have won a leadership contest if she had to declare her policies. In turn Yousaf now has to win a contest on policies that the SNP NEC wanted rather than the members of the party whilst explaining his personal incompetence. That’s a tough ask.

  41. Gregory Beekman
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev

    Typo

    “else who they want might to win over to their cause.”

    Should ‘want’ and ‘might’ be swapped round?

  42. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    Sturgeon has left a ruin, versus what she was gifted.

    I spent a few minutes watching Regan and Forbes in interviews, to refresh, and get a feel, and IMHO they will both struggle. Regan came across as better in the snippets I viewed. But this is a big step-up.

    Salmond effectively coronated Sturgeon, left her with 56 seats out of 59, a result so extreme it is amazing, show me any parliament that voted so.

    (It strongly suggests that the 2014 result was false IMHO.)

    But Forbes and Regan are not coming in super hot like Sturgeon did… no hydro, no 56 out of 59 seats, no adoring fans…

    I hope by some miracle Regan or Forbes pulls it out the bag but honestly I am not optimistic.

    I fear we can see that we are seriously flogging a dead horse here with the SNP at this point…

    If Ash or Kate do get a pulse going again then I won’t be against them. If it is Humza it is game over.

    But FFS just save yourself a heap of shite and vote ALBA.

  43. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    Tommo: “We shan’t agree; but is your brother no longer Scottish, then?”

    Well, he’s no longer about. He was Scottish by birth but not by conviction. I categorise him as a “Dambuster” Scot, born during WWII and brought up in its aftermath, where various people welded together by war against a common enemy adopted a British persona for a time, some extending to death.

    What is a “New Scot”? Living here doesn’t make you one automatically. Being born here does confer Scottishness, irrespective of how you vote on The Great Question. A future residency qualification for “New Scots” might give some the right to vote on such a question, though.

    I don’t really see what’s so complicated about it.

  44. crazycat
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Tinto Chiel at 8.28

    Could I vote, for example, in a French election (apart from a local one) or a referendum? No, and for a good reason, because I am not a French citizen.

    Until independence, there’s no such thing as a Scottish citizen, distinct from a UK one, so your analogy fails.

    You’re either a Scot or you’re not (and many people living here aren’t, and increasingly so).

    I don’t see what’s so hard about that concept.

    What’s hard is how you define “a Scot”. Am I a Scot, because my ancestors were, or does my mother’s decision to live in England and give birth to me there exclude me? I played no part in that decision, and I can’t change it. In general, we try not to discriminate against people on the basis of characteristics they didn’t choose and can’t change.

    Does living here ever since I became financially independent and able to make that move, more than 40 years ago, allow me to “self-ID” (ha!) as a Scot, or am I forever ineligible? If ancestry plays a part, you either have the same questions to answer in order to determine whether earlier generations were proper Scots, or you have different criteria (eg birthplace) for them.

    So yes, it’s hard.

  45. 100%Yes
    Ignored
    says:

    When Kate Forbes stated we still need to build the case for Independence, we are simply replacing Sturgeon with Yousaf and Forbes. The movement needs a leader who’s going to Build while we’re marching to the polls not waiting for the polls to come to us.

  46. Alin Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    I am finding it difficult to obtain information on the candidates, I don’t do Twitter and there is nothing on SNP website for members.

    Any suggestions.

  47. RobertG
    Ignored
    says:

    Very impressed with Ash Reagan so far although as expected she hardly had a mention or coverage on the BBC or C4 news this evening. That tells you everything as the MSM clearly see her as the only candidate that might be a threat to the UK. It was virtually all about Humza Yousaf and Kate Forbes. BBC seemed to be pushing Humza which is understandable given that he will be the biggest vote loser for the SNP. Was not impressed with Kate Forbes as she seemed to be backtracking already on any moves for advancing independence.

  48. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Wherever I live in the world I will always be a Scot, because I was born and raised here. If you are born and raised in Wales, England, France. You will always be a natural of that country.

    Let’s not conflate nationality with citizenship. Why would you want to assume another nationality. You need to be comfortable with your own nationality. If I move to Canada. I will be a Canadian citizen ,but a Scottish one.

    Likewise if you move to Scotland and it gets independence you will get Scottish citezenship.But you will still have a connection to your birth land, and in some cases retain that identity.

    I appreciate this is nuanced in England’s case. A country conflated with British identity. A country where many who move to Scotland are embarrassed about being English. Not so for an Irish person or Welsh person. But England is the coloniser nation, so it’s very natural for those moving here to be guarded or desperate to lose that identity.But you can’t just become the same cultural nationality as someone born and raised in a country. I can never be an indigenous Belgian or Welshman or Irish man.

    There is a difference, and it cannot be denied.

    English exceptionalism.

  49. akenaton
    Ignored
    says:

    I think Kate Forbes is correct although it may upset many here Independence will come, but through discussion and consultation , not via the claymore.
    Our population is changing, in my area there are many more people from England and immigrants than a few years ago. Scotland never really experienced the huge numbers who arrived in the UK during “free movement” and these people are moving out of the big cities and setting up small businesses in Scotland’s country towns. They have a good work ethic, have big families, are socially conservative and most have a strong faith.
    In contrast, indigenous Scot’s birth rate is plummeting and the youth are getting out as quickly as they can, most of those who stay are unemployable due to our shitty education services and equality/diversity indoctrination.
    We need a leader with strong conservative values to inspire in the manner of Salmond in the years before the lost referendum, we also need to shake up our public services and rid our selves of the victimhood complex instigated by the left and used viciously to control, by the Murrells.

    All in all Mrs Forbes seems to fit the bill though many here are shocked by her anti abortion and anti Gay Marriage views.
    I would just remind those people that the Gay Marriage legislation was pushed through Westminster by politicians against the wishes of the people. Just as was attempted with the GRR. Abortion on demand, or on grounds of convenience is the biggest disgrace in the Western world
    We need to clean up all of our country, not just Holyrood.

  50. blackhack
    Ignored
    says:

    Big Jock @ 8.33

    — — .-. … .

  51. 100%Yes
    Ignored
    says:

    Alin Scot

    Maybe ask your local Lacu if they have any information on the candidates and ask them to send the information to you, if they can.

    If I had a vote it would be Ash Regan, but I left the SNP after 33yrs.

  52. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @crazycat: “Until independence, there’s no such thing as a Scottish citizen, distinct from a UK one, so your analogy fails.” Such quibbling isn’t very convincing for me. Does Scottish mean anythign at all then, beyond a shortbread tin?

    If I replace Scottish with UK/British, would that make a difference if I lived in France? Yes, it would. Non-citizens shouldn’t get a vote in “big” elections.

    As you said in another sense, “In general,I played no part in that decision, and I can’t change it.” And I had no choice on my passport to be classed as British, which is a term devised fudge to blur the difference between the two kingdoms who were signatories to the Union.

    In any sensible definition of those eligible to vote in a future referendum, I would envisage a relatively short-term residency qualification (say 5-10 years), so your long-term qualification would not be threatened at all, in my opinion.

    “So yes, it’s hard”: agreed that it could be, but a reasonable residency qualification as outlined above would remove any problem.

    Ancestry doesn’t play a part in my “voting thinking” once people have left Scotland, actually.

  53. McDuff
    Ignored
    says:

    None of these people inspire or convince me that they are passionate about independence. There is no fire, no zeal, just everyday day politicians spouting monotone words.

  54. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    I don’t think anyone has done a survey of English in Scotland likely voting on independence recently. Maybe since Brexit we are getting the less British English people moving here. It would be interesting to see. It is a concern for such a small country next to an elephant. That 10% could easily become 20% in a few years.

    Soon we may become like native Americans on the reservations in Easterhouse and Dundee. Hey some Islands are already culturally English. Parts of Edinburgh as well. OK I am not being entirely serious, but if we don’t get independence soon. It will diminish indigenous Scots in our country.

  55. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    I disagree, I extending equal marriage was giving rights to people.

    Gender Self ID is taking away rights from women in their single sex spaces.

    Kate Forbes stance is problematic.

  56. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    Apologies for “anythign”: sausage fingers!

  57. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    She doesn’t believe in gay marriage just like the pope can’t bring himself to say to people they can come to god as who they are. They are committing sin. Its a sin, says Kate Forbes but its not illegal.

    She’s not the unifying voice the SNP need.

    After attacking the Alba Party for their defence of sex based rights. Kate Forbes make them all look like hypocrites.

    Ash Regan, out in front for the Independence on day 1.

    I’m not interested in Kate Forbes free ports and a neverendum pretenderendum. I want action in Independence. Kate Forbes isn’t going to be it. In my opinion that is – its not gospel.

  58. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Ancestory has nothing really to do with being Scottish. Every Canadian would claim to be Scots because their name is Macleod or Stewart. Despite maybe having to go back 200 years to find an actual Scot in their family.

    I could claim to be Irish on that Basis. Despite my acestors moving to Scotland in 1835. The ones who sold Scotland out are forever banging on about their unbroken Scottish heritage. With their Eton educations and English accents. Oh but my name is Cambbell , so I am more Scottish than you with your Irish name. They have never spent a day in Scotland.

  59. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    David. I don’t know the full details of the gay marriage bill. But did gay people not all have the same rights as everyone else. Other than the actual marriage certificate? Correct me if I am wrong. Is Kate denying anyone their rights with her beliefs , or simply the marriage institution, as she believes it was created for a man and woman. According to her religious doctrine.

  60. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Well we know who the Britnat media DOESN’T want to win the SNP leadership contest and that is Ash Regan, both Kate Forbes and Humza Yousaf have been given plenty of airtime on STV news and Reporting Scotland today, whilst Regan is given very little airtime.

    Its just another conformation that we should throw our weight behind Regan.

  61. Colin Dawson
    Ignored
    says:

    The SNP needs the independence movement. The independence movement does not need the SNP. Independence can be achieved without them if necessary. Under Sturgeon’s leadership, the SNP has been more of an impediment to Scottish independence than Westminster. They’re now at the last chance saloon. One more misstep and they’ll be cast into the political wilderness.

  62. Kenny
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m almost certain it’ll be Humza Yousaf, and I’m plumping for him as I think the vote will be rigged in favour of him. Murrell still in charge? Right.

    I also think the SNP will slowly, very slowly, go the way of Slab and elect a new clown every so often, just to give the impression that Scottish independence is still credible. How long did it take to sus Slab? Right.

    Old man Salmond will still run rings round any of them in the 2030s, and maybe by that time SNP *will* have gone the way of Slab?

  63. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Kenny it is beginning to look rigged. Humza is being peddled as the continuity candidate. Kate as the religious zealot and Ash as the non entity. Humza just told Scotland tonight 50 +1 wasn’t enough to declare independence, Murrell is wonderful and Kate is using her religion to form policy.

  64. crazycat
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Tinto Chiel at 10.15

    I absolutely agree about not choosing a “British” passport! And being Scottish is a thing, but I haven’t seen any definition of it that isn’t open to challenge (or quibble, if you like). Conceding that’s visceral, or something you “just know”, feels like a cop-out though.

    When it comes to “not being a French citizen”, the sort of “not” you are doesn’t matter, about which I think we’re agreeing. But if Brittany held a referendum on whether to become independent of France, would you try to differentiate between Breton citizens and French ones living in Brittany, and if so, how? (Speaking Breton wouldn’t work, because hardly anyone does, now.) That is perhaps a better comparison.

    Meanwhile, I’m relieved you’d let me vote; there are others who wouldn’t.

  65. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    Kate Forbes could have come out and said what Regan said on day 1,she’d call the Independence convention. She could say she’d disregard the self ID bill.

    She hasn’t though. She wants to have another conversation on the plan for Independence. I for one am sick of talking Independence into the long grass.

    Kate Forbes, she’s inexperienced, she’s passed an austerity budget. No she’s not putting her views on people, I respect her right to hold them. She just makes her party look like hypocrites that’s all.

    And after 7 mandates, two draft bills, a missing 600K, A supreme Court sovereignty sell out, the sell off of ScotWind, Tory Free Ports and Scotland suffering in poverty while we give our energy away for free. Like Nicola who’s gone with the wind, I couldn’t give a damn about the SNPs Tartan Tory prodigee Kate Forbes. She’s not it.

  66. desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    Still time for a “I have listened to my colleaghues…” late entrant.

    I suspect theres a good chance this could go Toryesque and be a short term plug whilst behind the scenes the power plays are made.

    How long till next Elections…would they dare piss off the Greens and would the Greens be able to give up their taste of power?

    Interetsing times ahead, if not overly enticing, for now.

  67. Willie
    Ignored
    says:

    Kenny@20.34.

    The SNP are going the way of Slab. No if, no buts regarding that. Folks are scunnered. The SNP deliver nothing, not independence, not good government, nothing, absolutely nothing.

    A new movement is coming, is needed and the electorate know it too.

  68. DJ
    Ignored
    says:

    Time the kid gloves came off. Political confrontation needs to be the order of the day, not this sickening gradualism we have had ad nauseam for the last few years. If it puts off a few undecideds then so be it. A price worth paying. After all, what have we got to lose? We are not going to get our independence through any of the other routes which have been touted. If I had a vote then it would be for Ash. As things stand, it’s Alba all the way.

  69. Big Tam
    Ignored
    says:

    Just a comment on the running discussion on whether Scots down south should get the vote in a second indyref.

    I’ve moved away from Scotland three times in my life, and moved back twice (so far). Sometimes work takes me south, at other times moving back has been possible – so I do it.

    I’m not an independence supporter myself – I can feel the emotional case, but I simply can’t see the practicality of it, and worry what it means for split families like mine, as well as for issues like defence – but I know plenty of expats down here happy to argue the toss with me.

    I think it’s grossly unfair that people like myself, up and down half a dozen times in a year visiting family and eager to move home when I can, who reads everything I can get my hands on on both sides of the argument, weren’t allowed to vote last time and you can be assured we will be lobbying hard to vote if there’s a next time.

    BTW, the reporting here on recent events has been fantastic, not only ahead of the game but also insightful (enjoyed a lot of the comments too even if I don’t agree with them).

  70. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    I agree the time for talking is over. We need to be actively delivering independence. Not having more debates about process or the merits of it.

    The debate should be in an actual campaign, not a debate about a possible campaign. Ash is right. Every election is about independence. That’s what it used to be in the SNP. You lose, you go to the next election. You win, you begin negotiations. You don’t request negotiations,you state your terms. You act with authority.

    If you beg , you look weak and have already lost. Sturgeon was a beggar not a negotiator.

    If Humza wins, then the SNP die and Alba become the spiritual home of independence supporters.

  71. David
    Ignored
    says:

    Alin Scot says:
    20 February, 2023 at 9:47 pm
    I am finding it difficult to obtain information on the candidates, I don’t do Twitter and there is nothing on SNP website for members.

    Any suggestions.

    Netflix ?

  72. Red
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s just no upside to this transsexual politics stuff. It’s a tarbaby of awfulness, and no amount of Twitter likes from unusually-fragranced and neon-haired People of Gender is going to make up for the growing shock and revulsion of normies as the real world implications become apparent.

    As Oor Nicola found oot, once you find yourself calling the Mumsnet crowd, Daily Record readers and yer Aunty Jackie “racists and trainophobes and so on”, yer done. Maybe not today, and maybe not tomorrow, but spitting on the electorate isn’t a long term survival plan in an industry based on asking the electorate for votes.

    Speaking of suicidal (yet hilarious) kamikaze dives of Mr Bean-like clownery, Humza would absolutely tank the entity formerly identifying as the Scottish National Party.

    Tank it.

    Blooter it.

    Ba’s burst.

    We’re talking Humzageddon here. There’s nothing I can do, a total eclipse of the SNP’s fundraising, membership and votes. A huge, smoking, seething crater where a political machine that used to effortlessly dominate Scottish political life used to be. Dozens, scores and hundreds of SNP MP’s, MSP’s and councillors, and all the nice back office jobs they support – gone.

    Humza must mean “nemesis” because he’s an extinction level asteroid of the SNP’s own creation. Seeing him fail upwards into the Big Chair, much like a less intelligent, less likeable and more racist version of Chauncey Gardiner, would be a delightfully farcical coda to the Nicola Sturgeon: A Warning From History Years.

  73. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    @crazycat: sounds like we’re two bald men arguing over a comb, then.

    I’ve spent several, long holidays in Brittany but I’m not going to touch that question, because I know little about it beyond first impressions.

    “Meanwhile, I’m relieved you’d let me vote; there are others who wouldn’t.” Since my only concern is short-term carpetbaggers voting in a referendum without any qualification, you would not be affected at all in any rational franchise, in my opinion. Some form of residency requirement byond birth is quite normal in EU countries and is hardly revolutionary.

    We’ve met and I don’t doubt your commitment to independence for a moment.

  74. Breastplate
    Ignored
    says:

    I think Ash Regan is the nearest thing to a normal person we have in those three, which is in my opinion a very good thing, imagine a politician with real world experience representing everyday people. It’s almost like having actual skills to do the job you’re being paid to do.

    Humza Yousaf is, unfortunately for him and us, Humza Yousaf.

    Kate Forbes being touted as a safe pair of hands for the Union, willing to work constructively with the people who look down on us with disdain and couldn’t quite collect her thoughts on gender ID although she seems to have recently and eventually cultivated some thoughts on the matter, no doubt with the help of her handlers.
    I’m sure she could continue Nicola Sturgeon’s impressive record of taking “no” as an answer.

    Decisions, decisions, eh.

  75. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    I must admit I was very underwhelmed watching Kate’s pitch on her video. It was all fluffy and nice. But it lacked the kick ass attitude of Regan. Maybe she is being low key , playing it safe pre election. Or maybe she really does think we can piss about for another few years!

    Does Ash have the numbers though? She certainly has the best pitch so far.

  76. Astonished
    Ignored
    says:

    100%Yes says:
    20 February, 2023 at 8:07 pm
    “If you have to ask God for an opinion your not the right person for the…job.”

    Schools, Hospitals, Universities, Law, International law, Diplomacy, Courts, Abolition of child sacrifice, Abolition of slavery, Abolition of indentured service, Allowing the poor to access schools, hospitals, universities and the courts… All these came from religion. Many and varied religions.

    Yeah, I know religion isn’t all love and roses. But I don’t generalize on such a massive matter ( and I think you were being a wee bit facetious). But remember without religion poor people would never have had schools.

    After saying all that – If I had a vote ( and I don’t) I’d vote for Ash Regan. Because Kate Forbes bottled voting against Sturgeon and doesn’t seem that keen on independence.

  77. Black Douglas
    Ignored
    says:

    ALBA had already given us a chance at the last election to come together again as an independence unified force, but the selfish motives of Sturgeon and her acolytes prevented this. Alex Salmond spoke sense and was ignored. Many forget that he was criminally set up by this cabal. This was shown to be wrong by a jury which was both mainly female and mainly unionist and certainly not open to believing lies. Sturgeon was used by the Union and still is.

    In my opinion, Ash Reagan is the very last hope for the SNP and Alex Salmond with his ALBA party would be excellent allies to push forward the cause. Ms Reagan is one of the moderate and sensible people in the SNP and looks to unify rather than divide and rule. Mr Salmond is still the best politician in our country and in the wider British Isles. I stopped voting SNP and will not vote for them again, until and unless they get rid of the rotting cancer that afflicts their Party and begin to re-unite the wider real independence people, within and without any Party. This may prove to be impossible as the illness runs deep.

    The independence movement is important and I cannot forgive Sturgeon and the SNP as it is just now, for taking away my hopes for Scotland’s future. Make no mistake, if this opportunity is not grasped, independence is dead.

  78. Louise Hogg
    Ignored
    says:

    Interesting. As an ALBA member, not my problem except as a Scot to live with the result.

    Despite the short campaign, I think there may be a few twists and turns. On the face of it we’re not confronted with any standout greatness NOR that much passionate nationalism.

    However, they do seem to be evoking quite strong preferences in this comments section. As much negative views of those people don’t want as positive views of who people do want.

    My suspicion is that the Scottish electorate as a whole would go for Kate Forbes in current circumstances. Poor governance has been the biggest problem for people for a while, as the mismatch between perceived SNP and public priorities showed.

    Someone aiming for the centre ground, no obvious intention of introducing radical controversial policies and appearing willing to engage with (ie listen to) ‘normal’ people (was that a Freudian slip?) would be a relief from 3 years of ‘perma-crisis’ and luxury, headline-grabbing, only-minority-benefitting policies.

    What an SNP membership will want, is less clear.

    In the past, a clear focus on independence would be a safe bet.

    But in the past, the SNP were either not encumbered with the responsibility of (struggling) government or not in the midst of an internal crisis (falling and divided membership must be apparent to members), with a trans activist wing at one corner and a (not necessarily overlapping that much) St Nicola of Holyrood wing at another.

    Ash Regan came second (of three), locally, to Calum Kerr in 2015 for Westminster candidate. And I do not think that was a wrong assessment by our constituency party at the time. I like her more left-wing economic outlook and commitment to independence. And her pluck and willingness to get up and try again was evident by then. Also a good communicator and probably a good networker.

    As someone who was a Free Church member for a time, I can see where Kate Forbes is coming from on some issues and have seen her be slightly more of a strategic thinker. I suspect Nicola’s frantic haste to get the GRRB through by Christmas (why?) may have been because Kate Forbes made clear that she would be fully ‘off’ until then, but not prepared to vote as whipped or abstain or be silent, once no longer ‘off’. She certainly wasn’t planning a maternity leave back when she made it clear GRR, in the form proposed, would be a resigning matter.

    The trans ‘cult’ may want Humza, the Sturgeon ‘cult’ Kate and the left-leaning-gender-reality-urgent-independence remainder want Ash.

    Can Keith Brown be challenged at Annual Conference? Would one of the women* try to install the other as deputy then?

    Will Peter Murrell and Co be able to rig the vote in Humza’s favour? When already Nicola has announced her resignation and Angus Robertson his decision not to stand. How quickly will the house of cards, bound by shared secrets crumble?

    *Adult human females

  79. Black Douglas
    Ignored
    says:

    As an addendum:
    Those who identified as independence supporters at the last election should have seen the wisdom of voting for ALBA on the lists. The lists are useful to the unionists as it stops a majority. A combined SNP and ALBA would have been able to overturn this and have real power for independence. Many SNP voters ignored this opportunity, or were too blind to see it and so we are in the position we are now. Instead of that, the SNP went to bed with the wimpish Greens who cannot think of any real policies.
    The supposed opposition parties cannot even oppose. We hear no real arguments, just malevolent slanging retorts from the. A good government needs a good opposition .Scotland has neither and Britain has neither. We are in a bad shape.

  80. Black Douglas
    Ignored
    says:

    I see my first post is missing and did not get past moderation.
    So now Wings is being selective and showing a lack of democracy.
    Oh dear. Is that because I mentioned ALBA?
    Will my addendum and this post go the same way.

  81. Black Douglas
    Ignored
    says:

    Yep!
    Disappeared.
    Bye!

  82. BLMac
    Ignored
    says:

    Can we self-ID as an independent country? 🙂

  83. Antoine Roquentin
    Ignored
    says:

    How many in the pro-Regan camp have a vote? Not me, for one, most unfortunately. But who knows what might be revealed in the course of the contest, leaving Ash Regan as the only possible choice?

  84. Run the borders
    Ignored
    says:

    Here speaks a Yoon. A Scottish patriot Yoon.
    I watched Kate and was left thinking. Yep I could. Given that you lot have reached 45 to 55 % and stopped then Maybe Kate is the one to run an effective government that promotes growth, productivity and fairness. She would lose a few nutters well worth losing on the left (greens and gender bendrs) and could gain a lot of support from the disaffected conservatives like me who just want some common sense and progress and a sensible world where we can get on with life.

  85. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “I see my first post is missing and did not get past moderation.
    So now Wings is being selective and showing a lack of democracy.
    Oh dear. Is that because I mentioned ALBA?’

    No, of course it’s fucking not. All new commenters have to be approved manually, and as I don’t sit here 24 hours a day hovering over the Pending tab, sometimes that can take a few hours because I also have to eat and sleep and do other stuff. Put your petted lip back in.

  86. SusanAHF
    Ignored
    says:

    I think a residency qualification would be a sensible and perfectly reasonable suggestion.

  87. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Sigh. Pretty poor interviews last night. Humza had all the wrong body language, defensive with aggressive posturing (finger pointing etc). Not a good look. He should try to calm down. If he performed this poorly in front of a nice easy interview, what’s he going to be like when the heat is turned on? Kate had a lot of nice, airy fairy words, but appeared very lightweight. It felt that there was nothing really under the veneer. Either of them would struggle. The media will be happy – I get the impression that Humza is the favoured candidate, but they only build him up so they can knock him down if and when he becomes FM Ash is up next. One can but hope she has at least some substance and charisma. Otherwise the SNP are stuffed. Nickla did a good job hollowing out the party.

  88. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    Guess self id only becomes a problem when you are obliged to respect a lie and in that case its interesting how big they make a bgBit worrying that 66% of the candidates (and 95% of declared MSPS/ MPS) appear keen to drop the drop the defacto referendum plan

    Setting aside which team Yusaf and Sarwar currently support, or which one might get some post indy mojo if, and only if, Ronaldo’s not shia by then, other questions msm appears reluctant to explore further include:

    what religion/orientation are critics of critics of gay marriage,
    which family gets the dowry in a gay islamic one,
    will arranged gay marriages be allowed despite one (or both) child(ren) not being gay,
    Can grr supporters advise which partner is at fault in cases where one (or both) partners takes several wives, etc.

  89. Stuart MacKay
    Ignored
    says:

    Run the borders @1:53am

    Ignore the current crop of politics and politicians. What would it take or need to happen for you to consider independence to be a better option than staying in the union?

    Is it something that could change in Scotland or is the situation/relationship/opprotunity in/with England always going to dominate?

    I think the 50% +/- is as good as it’s ever going to get with the current “I have a dream” that politicians of every colour like to peddle. There’s no one-size-fits-all and there never will be. Only when everybody has a stake in the future will there be a sizeable shift in favour of independence. A lot is going to have to change to get there. When we break out of this centralisation of everything and give people more control over their lives, then I think that will be something people will want to keep and independence will be one way of locking that in. For too long have the population outside of the central belt been getting the short end of the stick. Change that and then you might see that 50% figure start to change for the better.

  90. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    1000 apologies, first para (or any!) of last comment should not have appeared. Now that it has it might better have read s’thing along lines of :

    Guess self id only becomes a problem when a third party is obliged to respect a lie and in that case its odd that authorities increasingly want to regulate how people define themselves rather than, say, how corporations define their products (ie vaccines) or politicians their plans (ie 66% of the candidates (and 95% of declared MSPS/ MPS) appearing keen to drop the defacto referendum without (yet) articulating a faster or better alternative). That said, with power so comes responsibility and obligation to carefully consider issues of fundamental change, such as:

  91. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve been thinking about this, and disagree with her position on equal marriage, but I very much respect it. She’s got everyone talking. I see she’s on the front page of all the papers.

    There’s part of me that would enjoy seeing Forbes win it because the Stugeonites now all want to cancel her – who represent the most intolerant and aggressive group in society. Yousaf has already been on the attack. The wokies might finally leave the SNP if she wins.

    Maybe after everything I’ve just said, the sight holy Kate Forbes, carrying her infant into the steps of Bute House, has the voter appeal needed for Scotland to win its independence. She might just be what this country needs after all!

  92. Robert Louis
    Ignored
    says:

    Meanwhile….Kate Forbes, standing as a potential leader of the SNP (and first minister) has revealed she is 100% homophobic, and opposes abortion rights for women.

    Humza is useless, so Ash Regan it is then.

    My goodness, if the SNP elect Kate Forbes, they would be handing the next election to Labour on a plate. Her views are from another era. Hard to believe there are still women who have such backward views.

    No wonder James Cook of the BBC in Scotland, is pushing Kate as next leader. Just watch as the unionists try their very hardest to ensure it isn’t Ash Regan who becomes next SNP leader. Anybody with half a brain should realise that the unionists and their media oulets like the BBC, are pushing Kate because they think she is LEAST likely to push for independence.

    Interesting times.

  93. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    David. Ironically thd most intolerant ones. Are those on the left, who can’t handle anyone who disagrees with them.

  94. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @akenaton says:20 February, 2023 at 10:04 pm

    Scotland never really experienced the huge numbers who arrived in the UK during “free movement”

    That statement suggests you are not keeping up to speed with the reality after “free movement”.

    For example, the figure for net UK immigration for the year to June 2022 is given by the ONS as 504,000.

    Half a million new people in the UK every year! Do the math and work out what that means for Scotland.

    Those sort of figures don’t arise by accident. This is UK government policy. Ignore the headlines and look at the reality.

    Has ScotGov ever questioned this, from the Scottish perspective?

    Have they fuck. ScotGov policy continues to be that Scotland needs all the New Scots it can get.

    So what about the three new hopefuls who are going to supposedly lead us to the Promised Land? What do they say?

    Not a peep so far, as far as I can make out. They are going to bring about Indy, whilst continuing to dilute and negate the votes of us Scots for Indy with the votes of the New Scots! Whilst just about everybody knows that New Scots are generally opposed to Indy.

    Ha bloody ha.

  95. David Holden
    Ignored
    says:

    Test as get an error message when I try to post.

  96. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Robert Louis says:
    21 February, 2023 at 6:58 am

    …. Anybody with half a brain should realise that the unionists and their media oulets like the BBC, are pushing Kate because they think she is LEAST likely to push for independence.

    Maybe not least likely to push for it, but maybe the easiest for BritNat Media to attack and undermine, and thus she may be least likely to get it.

    It was Joanna Cherry who nominated Ash Regan

    It was Sturgeon’s Mhairi Hunter who nominated Humza.

    I think we can thus see where the feminist / Wokeratti divide occurs, with Forbes perhaps being the bridesmaid to both, or indeed neither.

    However, that’s looking at the new leadership through the prism of Sturgeon’s legacy.

    It’s more important for people to put their YES heads on, and work out who and what is best for Scottish Independence.

    To my mind, that’s Ash Regan, and if Ash Regan can successfully reach out to ALBA, ISP, and the disgruntled parts of the YES Movement, then maybe, I think a Regan/Forbes 1 & 2 might make it a done deal.

    I don’t know Ash Regan, but she’s ex Common Weal, and her Constituency Office is in Niddrie Mains Road, so I reckon she’s “serving her time” as a politician, and not doing it the easy way, and that feels like a good thing.

    It seems to be taking such a long time to set up a Constitutional Convention, and coming out from that Constitutional Convention, I very much hope to see two things emerge… a degree of unity across the political YES Movement, and a Convention of the Estates preaching the word of SALVO and giving Scotland the step by step path to follow to secure Independence.

    The irony is, because Independence has been left to wither for so long in the shade under Sturgeon’s stewardship, it could actually be very easy for a New Leader to introduce new Independence initiatives one after the other, and truly hit the ground running with huge momentum from the off.

    I believe that would wash over Scotland’s Independence community like that “ya beauty” current of warm air that wafts into the aircraft when you touch down somewhere warm and sunny for your holidays.

  97. ScottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    Social views aside, Kate Forbes took on the finance roll driven by neoliberal ideals – aka Charlotte street partners. This gave us the growth commission, Freeport’s, National investment bank for the wealthy, and sod all on land reform.

  98. Andy Griffiths
    Ignored
    says:

    As the son of a Scot and a Tafy born in England but living in Sydney I have a complicated view of Welsh and indeed Scottish independence however. If the SNP elects Humza it will set Independence back a generation, either Ash or Kate will probably do a decent job for the Indy movement if they can demonstrate competent government, which shouldn’t be hard given the shower of Sh..t in Westminster.

  99. orri
    Ignored
    says:

    The only reason to not vote for Kate Forbes, or any other candidate, if you’re an SNP member is because somehow they’ve given up on any pretense that their party or Holyrood are anything other than an elected dictatorship.Which for her most vocal critics seems to be the problem.

    Imagine a parliamentary democracy where even the leader, on occasion, doesn’t back every single policy of their own government.One where because it’s obvious they don’t they have to make an effort to allow free debate and put an end to the my way or the highway attitude the Sturgeonistas employed. The insistence on groupthink.

    What I’m saying is this is a chance, assuming the votes are counted fairly and accurately, for the ordinary SNP membership to take back their party. The same obviously holds for any other candidate. Other than his obvious ability to turn any gold he touches into shit I’m not sure Humza as a continuity candidate is what the SNP general membership want.

  100. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    I am of the opinion that we want the best candidate in terms of who is more likely to carry us over the line to independence. So we do not want to to go too far left , or too far right. Kate and Ash would straddle the middle and left ground. They could pick up many wavering voters.

  101. Ottomanboi
    Ignored
    says:

    How will he/she look and sound?
    «Charisma» will matter in the first 100 days.
    Good looking, articulate and no «kinks».
    Kids too…fertility and indy for a change in a land needing both.

  102. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Why is Humza Yousaf, a practicing muslim being given an easy MSM ride on the issue of equal marriage, whereas Kate Forbes, a practicing christian is getting the book thrown at her? Seems a bit unfair.

  103. Antoine Bisset
    Ignored
    says:

    The poll above strongly suggests that most of the SNP supporters are a couple of slices short of a loaf. There is nothing rational, normal or biologically correct about GRR. It flies in the face of everything science knows about biology and with Christian tradition- all versions.
    However, none of that that is anything other than a distraction from what should be the main event, independence. Aside from independence I’d worry about the standard of MSPs across the board, certainly those who have held ministerial roles in the Scottish government in the last ten years have displayed a degree of incompetence that is shameful. The simplest piece of advice you can give someone is that if you do not know how to do something find a person who does. Our government seems to have done the opposite. Nothing has been done properly.
    In 2015 when the elected representatives, MSPs and MPs, who supported independence comprised just over 2/3 of the total elected it was the right time to secede. It was, after all, pretty clear then that Westminster would never let go. Secession remains the only route with any hope of succeeding, although little enough.
    None of them have the courage to suggest it, let alone do it. No one is suggesting seizing a Post Office and raising the barricades, but no one is suggesting “Velvet Divorce” either.
    The suggestions are all of the “let us have another vote, but this time…” despite the clear and evident futility of this ongoing approach.
    Any robust pro-independence government would hold a plebiscite without asking permission, “We are going to rise up in rebellion. If that’s OK with you?” is not exactly inspiring. An Independence Party has to mean it and prove they mean it. they have to demonstrate by deeds that they are in the struggle for independence not a struggle for preferment and pensions which is all that the SNP can demonstrate. Any of them.

  104. Shug
    Ignored
    says:

    The national seems to have taken a dislike to Kate Forbes

    Good for her for sticking to her principles. Something the national is not used to I suspect and they don’t know how to react.

    They seem scared to punch home with Humsa. Funny that

  105. laukat
    Ignored
    says:

    The treatment of Kate Forbes looks like a stitch up. All the MSPS who yesterday backed her withdrawing so quickly smells of an organised attempt to discredit her by the Murrell’s. Even if Forbes gets through the current problems she would be a lame duck leader as every question will be “How can you lead when your colleagues don’t agree with you?”. I think her leadership campaign is over.

    Regan may be playing a clever game by allowing Humza and Forbes to tear each other apart. I would like to be more visible though. I take it she has an official campaign launch still to come?

  106. SusanAHF
    Ignored
    says:

    Good question Luigi, is there some form of bigotry involved? No one has asked whether Humza subscribes to the sharia belief that women’s minds are flawed

  107. Breastplate
    Ignored
    says:

    Louise Hogg,
    I too, am an Alba member and confess to never having met any of the three candidates for FM.
    What I mean by normal, is the average Joe or Josephine Bloggs on the street in Scotland.

    Of the three, and in my opinion, Ash Regan seems the least “establishment” which should be seen as a good thing, and again, in my opinion would then seem to be the most likely to represent the ordinary punter.

    Alas, I concede this is all guesswork because none of us know if our representatives will do their job and actually represent us.
    I am completely cynical when it comes to politicians, all of us should be.

  108. rogueslr
    Ignored
    says:

    With the National readers vote standing at Humza on 19%, Kate on 37% & Ash on 44% after 12,665 votes, could this see a last minute Sturgeonite contender enter the race? Firstly because the reality of HY being toxic hadn’t occurred to the continuity proposers and, secondly, to garner second choice votes.

  109. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Indeed, Humsa is proud to profess his muslim faith, but nobody has challenged him on how he squares that with his strong support of liberal legislation.

    “Wow, Humsa, you’re an ethnic muslim brought up in Scotland, that’s wonderful, good on ye!” Now over to Kate: “You are a wee free – How are you going to square your faith with equal marriage blah blah blah?”.

    Typical selective bias from the BBC

  110. AndyH
    Ignored
    says:

    Would be great if this was a country where we could watch and listen to coverage of this…

    I wonder how much airtime the Brit media deign to give it.

  111. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    President Xiden says:
    20 February, 2023 at 8:58 pm

    David Hannah says:
    20 February, 2023 at 8:38 pm
    Kate Forbes is against gay marriage.

    What is Humza’s view on gay marriage?

    The interesting question to ask him would be what is his views on gay marriage for muslims.

    https://archive.is/IyuGF
    ‘You can’t be a gay Muslim, if you are then you’re not a Muslim’

    I think Kate Forbes or Humza’s views on gay marriage or anything else is only a problem if it’s a dictator that is being elected.

    No more dictatorships! 8 years of Sturgeon is more than enough.

    I have serious doubts about every single SNP politician because they have accepted the dictatorship.

  112. Doug
    Ignored
    says:

    If I had a vote it would be for Regan.

  113. Lenny Hartley
    Ignored
    says:

    rogueslr The poll in the National means nothing. typical Online bubble (including myself) voting.
    I can confidently predict that say for example Ash gets 50,000 votes, Humza will magic up 50,001 votes.
    note numbers given are not indicative of actual SNP Membership numbers but are for illustrative purposes only. 🙂

  114. DJ
    Ignored
    says:

    What a car crash of a party the SNP has become. It’s Ash – or forget independence. Gradualism is dead in the water, leading to a political cul de sac. Time for political confrontation. Time for the gloves to come off.

  115. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Luigi says:
    21 February, 2023 at 9:13 am

    Why is Humza Yousaf, a practicing muslim being given an easy MSM ride on the issue of equal marriage, whereas Kate Forbes, a practicing christian is getting the book thrown at her? Seems a bit unfair.

    Is that perhaps because ‘Muslims’ have protections and any detrimental comment about Islam is a hate crime whereas ‘Teuchters’ have no protections.

    Don’t forget Kate Forbes is a Gaelic speaker and we all know how much they are hated.

    It’s all very weird.

  116. Johnny
    Ignored
    says:

    First off, I don’t agree with Forbes’ views on same-sex marriage at all.

    However, in some of the reaction, it can be seen why the SNP will have difficulty (even were it minded to try) to ever get us over the line and lead the country to independence, the way it is going IMHO.

    I am seeing “she should go away, it’s a party of the centre-left, GGGRRRRR” type ranting.

    Yes, the SNP deliberately targeted the working class vote but the point of that was that it was trying to show it was a “national” party and wasn’t only for tweedy, conservative types.

    We have seen lately, in the likes of comments by Sturgeon calling everyone who doesn’t agree with her names, that there’s now contempt for a great many Scots and a narrowing of who the party thinks is “acceptable”, to the point where it is becoming a very narrow party in terms of who it can hope to attract in future. It’s no longer even attempting to be “national”, not really, because it no longer wants to be a “broad church” for the pursuit of independence, which is just too difficult.

    Its support (still vast, of course, for now) is made up of those who are quite happy with this narrowing focus and a much larger number who haven’t realised yet that the party thinks they, too, are “scum” for some reason or other (given that thinking one “wrong” thing is more important than agreeing with 99 “right” ones, it’s almost impossible that most folk won’t be “scum” when you get right down to it).

    It’s not a party of independence anymore, it’s a party with a pretend “centre-left” focus, but which conveniently allows it to deem many working-class and tweedy conservatives alike as “not worthy”. Not quite a winning tactic for winning over all those mythical “soft Nos”.

  117. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Roddy MacLeod Barrheadboy has a good suggestion; a Scottish Prism style hustings event for the Leadership.

    https://www.barrheadboy.com/a-leaders-hustings/

    I think that’s a cracking idea, but the three in question might need a bit encouragement to sign up for it.

    I was going to suggest folks in contact with any of them to try and encourage them to take up Roddy’s offer, and we might actually learn something.

    Thumbs up to Roddy for a great idea.

  118. Dorothy Devine
    Ignored
    says:

    Even the Guardian ,’comment is free but facts are sacred” has an article on the Two Top Runners – no mention of Ash Regan.

    Whatever happened to the press ? Or were they always a bunch of manipulative liars and I didn’t notice?

    Makes me glad I don’t buy any of them.

  119. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    I think Forbes will struggle to make up ground in the race for FM after her opposition to gay marriage, which she appears to be backtracking on. I’d go as far as to say that so far, its between the toxic Yousaf and the independence minded candidate Ash Regan.

    I’d imagine that the Britnat media, Sturgeon and Murrell will want Yousaf to win.

  120. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    ScottieDog says: at 8:11 am

    Social views aside, Kate Forbes took on the finance roll driven by neoliberal ideals – aka Charlotte street partners. This gave us the growth commission, Freeport’s, National investment bank for the wealthy, and sod all on land reform.

    Re. Freeports: A reminder from a month back that they cover a considerably larger geographic area than just the locality of the port itself.

    https://robinmcalpine.org/freeports-everything-that-is-wrong-with-scotland/

  121. Cenchos
    Ignored
    says:

    Surely Humza could be put to good use in a Scottish space exploration project, as his ability to fall upwards suggests that he has already harnessed antimatter propulsion.

  122. Johnny Conspiranoid
    Ignored
    says:

    As a conspiracy theorist I wonder if the whole trans rights thing has been cooked up to motivate people to vote tory in reaction to it.

  123. Johnny Conspiranoid
    Ignored
    says:

    And don’t forget this book about american state influence in the SNP.
    https://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/article/issue/85/the-scottish-national-party-and-the-american-state/

  124. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Dan says:
    21 February, 2023 at 10:28 am

    Re. Freeports: A reminder…

    A further reminder that Freeport’s = Deregulation, and growing distance between Scotland’s economy and EU convergence criteria.

    Freeport’s = Brexit “dividend” that’s also designed to make Brexit irreversible in the short to medium term.

    When the UK gives you a “free” anything, think Union Jack, put it back.

  125. Mark Boyle
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks says:
    21 February, 2023 at 8:03 am

    To my mind, that’s Ash Regan, and if Ash Regan can successfully reach out to ALBA, ISP, and the disgruntled parts of the YES Movement …

    The winner of this contest doesn’t need to “reach out” to anybody. Stop kidding yourself.

    The entire 57 varieties of alternative ScotNat groups that have sprung up have done so over one issue – Sturgeon’s leadership.

    Now the head’s been cut off the snake, they know ordinary rank and file people will drift back, same as happened with Labour once Corbyn was ousted.

    A few months after the dust has settled on the leadership contest, a quiet word will be spoken in Kenny MacAskill’s ear about “coming back” – and when he does, all will know the game is up.

    Alba have had two years to gain traction, the ISP three. Apart from Alba’s two seats and Salmond’s public persona, outside of the Alice In Wonderland world of the Interwebs they’ve proved zero but a ginger group for anti-Sturgeon Nats.

    The ISP is two embittered failed career politicos and their fandorks, believing if they drive their clown car for long enough round the circus ring what long departed with boredom audience they ever had will return – an even bigger irrelevance than RISE, and that took some doing.

    Both do zero of the bread and butter local campaigning, week after tortuous week in and out, required to build up any micro-party into relevance. The Covid excuse is gone, they’re still not doing it – just having the occasional self-important “meetings” the same way UKIP used to do, and got nowhere fast too. It’s hobby politics like the Socialist Party of Great Britain, not reality, and all its competitors see it and know it for what it is – utter irrelevance outside of their wee bubble.

    More to the point, the SNP knows it, and deep down so does everyone in Alba/ISP – and you.

    Unless it commits complete membership and electoral suicide in making Humming Useless leader, the job’s done for the anti-Sturgeon faction – at least in the minds of most – and their raison d’etre with it. The new faction pissing out of the tent by the year’s end will be the cranks and perverts soon to be on their way out as the rest come back in. They could go to the “Scottish Greens” but as they’re about to have their own gravy train derailed not much point, is there? 😀

  126. Doug
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s very simple. Independence first, Independence Second and Independence Third.

    Once we’ve got independence THEN we can start tinkering round with constitutions and laws without any interference.

    But if you don’t want the UK to shot down your GRR – then get independence first and you don’t have to worry about it. Once we’ve got that out of the way you can try and convince the nation. The only reason you do it the other way round is because you are using Independence as a Trojan Horse to get GRR and you don’t actually care one whit about Independence.

    Ash Regan seems to have got this right – no more time wasted on GRR and get on with Indy.

  127. David Hannah
    Ignored
    says:

    What’s an every day example of something thing that can happen in a free port?

    Could building regulations or workers rights be undermined?

  128. Aunty Flo
    Ignored
    says:

    Luigi says:
    21 February, 2023 at 9:13 am

    ‘Why is Humza Yousaf, a practicing muslim being given an easy MSM ride on the issue of equal marriage, whereas Kate Forbes, a practicing christian is getting the book thrown at her? Seems a bit unfair.’

    Not to mention the muslim religion’s barbaric requirement for male (and often female) genital mutilation (aka ‘cicumcision’)!

    Oh hang on a minute, maybe that could dovetail nicely with a trans agenda …

  129. robbo
    Ignored
    says:

    I don’t know what all the fuss is about regards Kate Forbes personal opinion on same sex marriage. I thought she explained her position quite well. She never even came close to saying anything bigoted. Just that she personally said marriage was in her humble opinion was between a Man and a Women according to her faith. She didn’t say owt about abolishing it did she!

    It’s not as if she said they should be put to death like some Muslim countries is it? See Humza never got grilled on it- surprise surprise!

    Only 15% of the 195 countries in the world allow it also.

    Personally I couldn’t care less

  130. Ros+Curwood
    Ignored
    says:

    I just wonder what the poll would show if another category was added: ‘Spend the challenge money instead on repairing the roads’

  131. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Here are some of the Muslim faith principles – There is widespread agreement that some behaviors – including drinking alcohol, sex outside marriage, homosexuality and committing suicide – are immoral.

    So broadly similar in terms of Gay practices and same sex marriage. Yet only Forbes Christian faith is being challenged publicly. What’s the difference?

  132. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ David Hannah

    More on Freeports in this link from a couple of years back. Note Commonweal with whom Ash Regen worked with so that may indicate where her views lie on such matters.

    https://commonweal.scot/free-ports-slavery-green-ports-and-more/

  133. Robert McAllan
    Ignored
    says:

    It isnae opinions oan gay marriage that coont. Whaur aboots dae ah here them speilin oan oor fight tae gain freedom frae oor oppressors?

  134. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Robert -Ash Regan is the only one that has spelt out her route to indy. Every election is an independence election. How it should be and, how it used to be.

  135. gregor
    Ignored
    says:

    The People’s Voice (2023): WEF Declares That Human Beings Are No Longer Sovereign:

    “The World Economic Forum has recently launched a controversial new initiative that should have the entire human race up in arms.
    The World Economic Forum is now demanding humans hand over sovereignty of their own brains to the global elite.

    According to the WEF, brain waves are nothing more than data, and we should be happy to allow AI to intrude in our brains “for our own good.”…”:

    https://tinyurl.com/bdh5n6se

  136. RevengeServedCold
    Ignored
    says:

    Big Jock says:
    20 February, 2023 at 7:15 pm
    Continuing from a thread on the last article. Why Scots in England shouldn’t get to vote. 78% would vote no. Some 900k would be added to the numbers. 20%!! which would be a disaster on those numbers.

    There is a reason people like Ruth Davidson were pushing for this. Something happens to Scots when they reside in England too long. Not all Scots, but the majority. They become more British.

    Actually. They become less parochial.

  137. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Mark Boyle says:
    21 February, 2023 at 11:22 am.

    More to the point, the SNP knows it, and deep down so does everyone in Alba/ISP – and you.

    If you imagine ALBA and SALVO are going step away from the progress they’ve made and lay it all at the feet of any First Minister in a Vichy Edinburgh Assembly, which after Sturgeon, is now a perpetual prison for Scottish democracy, then I don’t think Mr Boyle that I’m the one deluding myself.

    SALVO, SSRG and ALBA haven’t been idle while the SNP was taking 8 years off to have it’s mental breakdown, and ALBA in particular provided vital sanctuary for the heart and soul of YES believers when the SNP was busy sabotaging the cause, and playing bait and switch with mandates after mandate won on the back of Independence by cynically swiped as mandates for Transgender Extremism.

    There are now several credible routes to Independence, some of them where Holyrood’s roll is quite peripheral to the main action. There is an open invitation to the SNP to join the muster, but as far as I can see, the initiative will remain with those individuals who have done so much to develop that initiative and nurture hope, with nothing coming from the SNP except derision and vitriolic abuse.

    Yes, ALBA criticise the SNP, and often criticise it severely, but frequently left out the formula of that “grievance equation” is the extent to which the SNP’s excursion into lunacy has thoroughly warranted blistering criticism.

  138. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Quite the opposite Revenge.

    They become more parochial. They see everything through an English filter. Therefore they see their home nation as inferior to England. Not so for Scots who move to other independent countries. They understand the value of independence.

    So ironic that the most parochial country in Europe (England). Would claim Scots become less parochial by becoming more English. I nearly spat my tea out , such was the lack of self awareness in that comment.

  139. Mark Boyle
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks says:
    21 February, 2023 at 3:23 pm

    If you imagine ALBA and SALVO are going step away from the progress they’ve made and lay it all at the feet of any First Minister in a Vichy Edinburgh Assembly, which after Sturgeon, is now a perpetual prison for Scottish democracy, then I don’t think Mr Boyle that I’m the one deluding myself.

    I’m sorry, but what progress?

    Whatever there ever was which could be found with the aid of an electron microscope, that hit “GAME OVER. INSERT COIN” on 15th February.

    SALVO, SSRG and ALBA haven’t been idle while the SNP was taking 8 years off to have it’s mental breakdown, and ALBA in particular provided vital sanctuary for the heart and soul of YES believers when the SNP was busy sabotaging the cause, and playing bait and switch with mandates after mandate won on the back of Independence by cynically swiped as mandates for Transgender Extremism.

    Nobody outside of the micro-minority of social media, never mind the nano-minority in the real world cares for one second about anything SALVO or the SSRG. Stop kidding yourself.

    Stu has done – largely in a fit of revenge – a billion times more than any of those blawbag collectives have done in their entirity … and did so in three months. Let that sink in.

    If that doesn’t encapsulate their insignificance of all their cunning plans in the grand scheme, what does?

  140. Minekiller
    Ignored
    says:

    If the Nationalists achieved separation from the UK, with 51% of the electorate supporting it. What’s the plan to heal the rift with the 49% of people who wanted to stay in the UK?

  141. robbo
    Ignored
    says:

    Minekiller says:
    21 February, 2023 at 6:27 pm
    If the Nationalists achieved separation from the UK, with 51% of the electorate supporting it. What’s the plan to heal the rift with the 49% of people who wanted to stay in the UK?

    ——–

    We will offer you the same as what Westminster offered “the vow”, A FAILED PROMISE.

    We’ll call it. “Our rules noo, suck ma boaby”

  142. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Minekiller

    Well one would presume that a self-governing Scotland regaining control of all the significant powers currently held by Westminster could begin to implement a range of policies that better served all of our society.
    Obviously it will take a bit of time for things to change from where we currently are in the UK setup, but things really do have to change as so much is broken with no sign of improvement coming from Westminster as the big corporates, energy companies, and banks continue to exploit and profit from the people.

    It would be a special kind of idiot that would still hold a grievance against Scottish self-governance if it was actually improving the quality of life for Scots.

  143. Gregory Beekman
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev

    You still have the typo I mentioned at 9:24 pm



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