Progress update
In slightly over a month from now, Nicola Sturgeon will overtake Alex Salmond as the longest-serving First Minister of Scotland. It seemed a reasonable time to take stock.
It’s very nearly six years since the Sunday Herald headline above from 1 May 2016. (Remember the Sunday Herald, readers? It feels like another lifetime, doesn’t it?)
April/early May is very often the period leading up to an election, which is when the SNP traditionally ramp up the carrot-dangling about independence to secure the votes of the faithful for yet another “cast-iron mandate”, so it’s not a bad barometer. Let’s see how far we’ve come.
The last poll before 1 May 2016 was just a few days earlier – a Panelbase one for the Sunday Times with the fieldwork from 23-28 April. It found support, with Don’t Knows excluded, at Yes 47% No 53%.
The most recent poll is one conducted by BMG for the Herald, reported four days ago. It found support, with Don’t Knows excluded, at Yes 47% No 53%.
Just for fun, let’s also see where we were at the halfway point. Panelbase also did a poll from 24-26 April 2019, right in the middle of the other two. It found support, with Don’t Knows excluded, at Yes 47% No 53%.
What about the intervening years? There were no April polls in either 2018 or 2020, but Survation did do April ones in 2017 and 2021 so let’s add those too to get another polling company into the mix.
In April 2017 Survation found support at Yes 47% No 53%, whereas in April 2021, in the middle of COVID, they recorded it at Yes 47% No 53%.
And what the heck, we may as well be completist and include Sturgeon’s first ever April as SNP leader/FM, that of 2015, as well. A YouGov poll for the Sunday Times that month broadens our sample with another different polling company, and found figures of Yes 47% No 53%.
So let’s put those into a graph and see how we’ve been doing under Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership, through perhaps the worst, most chaotic, shambolic and disastrous peacetime years in the history of the UK – Brexit, knocking on for 200,000 deaths from a virus pandemic, runaway inflation, empty shop shelves and all the rest of it.
Thank goodness for that calm, steady leadership winning over all those soft No voters and building support to the point where it’ll be irresistible, eh folks? Just another infinity years to wait and we’ll be right there.
We don’t know about you, but we’re counting down the days.
.
APPENDIX
An interesting facet of today’s poll is that the SNP habitually claim massive youth support for indy, but in fact the 16-24s the party obsessively pursues are only very narrowly in favour, and less so than the sneered-at “boomers” of 45-54. It’s specifically the 25-34 bracket that’s the outlier (along with over-65s at the other end).
Also striking, for those of us who remember the SNP’s supposed “woman problem” under Alex Salmond, is the fact that after seven years of Sturgeon’s leadership there’s now a sizeable gulf in support between men and women, with men very narrowly pro-indy and women against by a hefty 14 points.
That’s a spectacular drop since Sturgeon initiated plans for “gender reform” last year, just days after a poll in which 60% of women backed independence.
And it’s very female-specific. The drop in support among men since the poll cited by Carslaw is just three points, compared to the 17-point fall among women in the same period, and has turned a 14-point Yes lead into a 6-point No lead.
Who’d have guessed that destroying women’s rights would be unpopular with women?
@ Confused
Well as we have Trident parked on the Clyde, it’s only fair in this “equal union” that there’s an absolute weapon / rocket parked on the Thames… 😉
link to wingsoverscotland.com
good link Dan, but 2015, has it been so long? Loads happened since then including “racist rants on yachts”.
I have heard things and could make plausibe speculations about her financial dealings and her personal life … but she is married to a billionaire and I think she is quite litigious; here’s hoping Inspector Knacker isn’t too mesmerised by those fat mummy-tits.
– check out the daily mail article (I wont sully wings by posting a link) – good photos.
If the delightful Mone ever did end up in Cornton Vale, I reckon she would be “top dog” within a week.
Brian Doonthetoon.
It obviously is working fine,
Otherwise i would not be able to access it at all.
Replaced the old cracked screen with a a new plastic screen recently and its a problem with accepting my touch screen finger control,
So have to do it repeatedly.
So even more reason to know that it is on google,
However as Alf Baird mentioned above someone else has also done home work already on this. So i presume it is available to research.
Alf Baird.
Thank you for the link,
Hopefully the clear link will enable more people to read upon it.
I will have a look at whats said myself, again many thanks.
I have quickly read the link you gave and to finish reading it later to night.as away to be busy for a good few hours.
An excellent accumulation of work by yourself and others.and simplified for all of us to understand the claim of right and Scots sovereignty.
And here was i coming to the same conclusion as the learn’d with regards to the Scottish constitution and and the people Sovereignty by instinct rather than a professed documented education,
At this point i am patting myself on the back with good reason,
For i was not influenced by anything i had previously read.
Our sovereignty in Scotland belongs to the people without a doubt first and foremost,
And The New parliament of britain is supposed to follow agreements, details and articles in the 1707 treaty of union.
As to the legislation or Statues being passed by the houses of Parliament since 1707 , I had recently question Alex Salmond on wether that particular parliament had the legal authority to do so for Scotland.
He basically said the same as the link you provided, He is well aware of these circumstances.
As you may have noticed that I was having a long dispute during the covid lockdowns here in Scotland.
And i am afraid it was misconstrued as to why i thought it was debatable,
My thoughts had been that the houses of parliament/ westminster and / or the devolved government in Scotland could not take the liberties away of the Sovereign Scots,
That it could only be advisory in Scotland.
This had nothing to with the actual virus, but rather with legalities of Scots law, and Sovereignty of the Scots,
That to lockup/ down sovereign Scots in there houses and care homes without a crime being committed or a fair hearing
Indeed at the beginning of the pandemic NS did say ” here in Scotland it is only advisory”
That changed the more power she felt she had over time,
And introduced fines and legislation etc contrare to The treaty.
These little but important issues are needed to be recognised by the people of Scotland.
We should have the ability and right to choose liberty over draconian measures from a devolved government of westminster.not just on that one subject,
The transgender topic also take away freedom of Sovereignty to be recognised as a natural born Scottish women,
To be replaced with a millenium version of a man either thinking or acting like/ as a women.
This legislation by a non sovereign government is against what the majority of Scots women think as Sovereign Scottish women,
They also recognise this same devolved government is endangering the safety and life’s of their children.
Is it not time to choose a different form of government by the legitimacy and Sovereignty of the Scots.
Sorry for long post Alf.
I argued then
I have quickly read the link you gave and to finish reading it later to night.as away to be busy for a good few hours.
An excellent accumulation of work by yourself and others.and simplified for all of us to understand the claim of right and Scots sovereignty.
And here was i coming to the same conclusion as the learn’d with regards to the Scottish constitution and and the people Sovereignty by instinct rather than a professed documented education,
At this point i am patting myself on the back with good reason,
For i was not influenced by anything i had previously read.
Our sovereignty in Scotland belongs to the people without a doubt first and foremost,
And The New parliament of britain is supposed to follow agreements, details and articles in the 1707 treaty of union.
As to the legislation or Statues being passed by the houses of Parliament since 1707 , I had recently question Alex Salmond on wether that particular parliament had the legal authority to do so for Scotland.
He basically said the same as the link you provided, He is well aware of these circumstances.
As you may have noticed that I was having a long dispute during the covid lockdowns here in Scotland.
And i am afraid it was misconstrued as to why i thought it was debatable,
My thoughts had been that the houses of parliament/ westminster and / or the devolved government in Scotland could not take the liberties away of the Sovereign Scots,
That it could only be advisory in Scotland.
This had nothing to with the actual virus, but rather with legalities of Scots law, and Sovereignty of the Scots,
That to lockup/ down sovereign Scots in there houses and care homes without a crime being committed or a fair hearing
Indeed at the beginning of the pandemic NS did say ” here in Scotland it is only advisory”
That changed the more power she felt she had over time,
And introduced fines and legislation etc contrare to The treaty.
These little but important issues are needed to be recognised by the people of Scotland.
We should have the ability and right to choose liberty over draconian measures from a devolved government of westminster.not just on that one subject,
The transgender topic also take away freedom of Sovereignty to be recognised as a natural born Scottish women,
To be replaced with a millenium version of a man either thinking or acting like/ as a women.
This legislation by a non sovereign government is against what the majority of Scots women think as Sovereign Scottish women,
They also recognise this same devolved government is endangering the safety and life’s of their children.
Is it not time to choose a different form of government by the legitimacy and Sovereignty of the Scots.
So much to acheive.
Sorry for long post Alf.
I argued then
Confused says: 29 April, 2022 at 11:54 am
Michelle Mone was an old Wings favourite from way back; some hilarious posts and commentary – her foray into cryptocurrency “TITCOIN” and many more … Her entire life could be dramatised as satire/morality tale, except she has gotten away with everything so far.
Michelle Mone is the classic example that you can take a girl out of Dennistoun, but you can’t take Dennistoun out of the girl …
(Although now that Stuart Cosgrove and the rest of those journo-luvvie wankers are trying to gentrify the place, this is going to lose some of its meaning over the next decade)
@Mark Boyle (5.21) –
Good point.
I lived in Glasgow tenements my whole life apart from a 2-yr stint working abroad.
Twenty-four years ago we left Glasgow for a house in Ayrshire that has its own garden. Much as I love Glasgow I’d never go back to live there and have yet to meet any other Weegie who would.
Living in a big fuckin egg-box is *not* cool (no matter how many luvvies protest otherwise), especially if you have children and/or pets.
(Besides, successful wokesters won’t be in the Dennistoun tenements – they’ll have the big houses off Ally Parade and Duke St.)
🙂
Alf Baird.
Breeks.
I had one or two bits of mixed up information regarding the position on parliamentary Sovereignty as i was learning.
However instinct always led me to believe that that the scots were sovereign. And retained that sovereignty.
I had also said many times here on wings that the Scots never voted to join the treaty of the union.
And according to the Uk parliament 2022.
It was thought in that 1707 not to put a vote to The small Scottish electorate, as they would have probably voted against joining the treaty of the union,
With this in mind, we observe that the sovereign Scots were not asked to join the treaty of the union.
So why ask us in 2014 did we want to remain…….joined?
The question was misleading.
Alf Baird.
Breeks.
Which also makes NS referendum or section 30 question farcical propaganda.
Now I could understand if the question had been,
Do the Scots want to end the parliamentary and joint monarchy treaty of union 1707?
There is a distinction between the two questions.
James Che. says:
29 April, 2022 at 6:01 pm
Alf Baird.
Breeks.
Which also makes NS referendum or section 30 question farcical propaganda…
There are a myriad of problems with the Union, (and twice that number of problems with Devolution). The treaty purports to have done a thing which cannot actually be done, and thus it “created” a Union which cannot properly exist. Let me stress the word “properly”. What exists ISN’T proper. It is an illusion; a bogus Union which only appears to exist so long as nobody asks awkward questions leading to the agreement’s undoing and collapse.
The result is a shambles, and dreadful con suffered upon Scotland. The disgrace of an unconstitutional and undeliverable Treaty being created, and forever-after needing to be shored up by bribery and corruption, sophistry and unwritten conventions, and the relentless indoctrination of the poor mugs who are having their rights and resources stolen. The Scots must never be allowed to learn the truth or the Union is doomed.
A prime example of the fallacy:- The Union Treaty claims to have mysteriously “joined” the popular sovereignty of the Scottish people with the one and only person living in Scotland who, by literal definition, ISN’T sovereign – the Monarch.
The Union should never properly have existed to begin with, because it was never sound in law, it was never constitutional, it was never ratified by the people, and it claimed to have done a thing which could not be done.
The integrity of the Treaty is a farce, and it always has been, but the true act of colonial subordination has been the stitch up suffered upon Scotland, the theft and exploitation of Scotland’s resources, and the bamboozling sophistry of impenetrable unwritten conventions which exist to stymie Scotland’s Constitutional rights and integrity, and supplant Scotland’s truth with a malignant fiction which endeavours to make the UK’s “constitution” a swamp of ambiguous confusion.
For god’s sake Scotland, enough is enough. Boil the flesh of this rancid Union, and rediscover the honest bones of Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution and let us finally rescue our Nation from the clutches of the colonial fraudsters, – the home grown variety and otherwise.
The Scottish people have what the colonialists crave but DO NOT have; Sovereignty in the Realm of Scotland.
Well worth a read –
link to robinmcalpine.org
Breeks @ 6.47
???
THAT’s the Spirit !
sorry Breeks those ??? were meant to be * applause * emojis .
Brilliant post compadre
@Breeks (6.47) –
It’s impossible to disagree with anything you say there, but we’re still stuck in the quicksand until Sturgeon has left the building.
If you saw any footage of her today, trying to defend the missing ferry paperwork, it’s hard to imagine anyone who has genuine concern for her not being worried. She looks awful. The bags have bags. If she was a relative I’d be getting in touch with other family members to stage some kind of ‘intervention’.
And even if she is persuaded to attempt a graceful exit, we have Robertson and his shrew lined up to replace her. (Two for the price of one deal there…)
What chance of there being a serious constitutional debate when our media can’t even bring themselves to report Michelle Mone’s current predicament?
We can’t wait until the ‘inquiries’ (ferries, covid etc) are undertaken, let alone completed. We have to force her exit, then make sure Roberston doesn’t get the glorious coronation his missus is expecting.
@IB 6:49
Well worth a read ???
How’s about every adult in Scotland tied to a chair, forced to read that article, and not released until he/she/it/they/cat can recite it from memory?
The actual state of Nicola Sturgeon.
Check out the first 10 seconds of this. Mute it so that the interviewer’s words don’t distract.
Does this woman look well?
Think back, even to her marathon stint at the Harassment Inquiry.
I’m not having a go at her ‘appearance’ – I’m questioning her mental state. She’s close to the edge.
twitter.com/AlanJZycinski/status/1520008760906993667/video/1
Ian @6.49pm.
It certainly was worth a read, McAlpine listed just what a shower of b*stards this SNP government is under Sturgeon the betrayer and he did it in such a smart way that its very unlikely Bain will have the COPFS instruct its footsoldiers Police Scotland to do a Mark Hirst, or Craig Murray on him.
Ian B
Fck ! I’ve avoided seeing or hearing anything from NS for a while – such is my antipathy , I’d rather avoid the anger it produces , but those first few seconds , the nervous ( neurotic ? ) mouth twitches suggest someone under immense pressure . It could just be the immediate pressure of the Ferry Fiasco , but I can’t help thinking there are other , more intractable * pressures * coming to a head : ties that ( double ) bind .I agree with yr earlier comment to Breeks , nothing positive can happen until she and the entourage fck off
@Robert Hughes –
Trying to look at this logically…
Where is the pressure coming from? Why does she look ready to crack?
Those are just off the top of my head, and aren’t ‘serious’, but what, then, *IS* the reason for her fragile state?
What is she afraid of, apart from the obvious fact that Time is against her and ‘all things must pass’?
Can it be true that she has 50,000 civil servants at her disposal? That’s near enough a full Hampden Park. So there’s no reason for her to take on too much, is there?
So what is it?
Someone, somewhere, must know. Here’s hoping they spill the beans, give us the shot in the arm that our movement needs, and allow Nicola Sturgeon, still a relatively young woman, to make good her escape across the rooftops of Edinburgh.
Little Nikki is starting to look like Rosa Klebb.
– just watch for the hidden switchblade in the shoe.
In the star wars mythos, those who turn to the “dark side” (joining the Sith) are physically consumed by it, become grotesque and disfigured.
Or you can see a top surgeon like Michelle.
Ian B
I’ve done that thought experiment eg ” What if we’ve completely misjudged her , and she really believes she’s pursuing the right strategy to achieve Independence ? ” . It collapses under the weight of her actions to date : as you saw , Robin McAlpine * entertainingly * lists them and we were/are all aware of them .
Which leaves * alternative * explanations for her , from appearances , fragile mental state .
Confused .Lol .
I’m seeing her mutating from Rosa Klebb into an embittered , repressed ” Aunt Lydia “, venting her spleen in a Scottish Woke Gilead .
Daft wee Niki . She tried to be ” Nyborg ” n ended-up a cyborg
You know, I was just thinking there…
…isn’t it really nice without Ellis around?!
🙂
Regarding the current state of Nicola Sturgeon. When you sell your soul to the Devil, the Devil will eventually come to claim his prize.
Apropos of nothing, does anyone remember having a television set with a meter on the back which accepted only 50p coins?
Ian B,
You must be going back a bit,I can’t recall that, I do, however, remember renting our tele from DER. An extortionate way of paying for a useless contraption that we would never own.
Also, I agree with you about not missing Mr Bombastic.
I vaguely remember that, Ian. Was it not something to do with metering the electricity so that the telly wasn’t left on all the time, such as in student unions and the like?
I had a friend who had a 50p electricity meter. He made a mould from blu-tac and would make 50p ice coins to use in the meter when he was skint! He had to be careful though and use real fifty pence pieces some of the time so that he wasn’t rumbled when the meter collector arrived and found the telly and lights on but no money in the meter!
Something sticks in my mind and I can’t quite put my finger on it but doesn’t wee nicky have a legacy problem with missing , unfiled or left at the bottom of a drawer paperwork that is QUITE important to others , nicky and her crew are severely needing to attend remedial classes for ALL these lessons that will be learned
link to 12ft.io
Kevin McKenna: I wouldn’t trust this mob to use the census data properly anyway
Ian Brotherhood says:
29 April, 2022 at 11:43 pm
Apropos of nothing, does anyone remember having a television set with a meter on the back which accepted only 50p coins?
Never had that, but funny story about our TV… When I was little, we had a TV with new fangled station buttons which you only had to touch to change channel, unlike the normal buttons that you had to press in with a big ‘clunk’. (It was also a colour TV – Oooo-hee-hoo-hee-hoo!)
I’d be about 4 or 5 maybe, and had a sister who was a bit selfish, bigger than I was, and always switched the TV channel to watch her program, and thumped you if you changed it back.
However, being a snottery, finger sookin’ young urchin, I realised that if the fingers you’d just been sookin’ were still wet, even a wee hint of slaver on the TV button was enough to make the button stick on that channel.
So whenever my big bad sis swapped the channel, a discreet wee lick of the fingers, change the channel back, and retire. When she tried to swap channels again, the TV wouldn’t cooperate, but the station jumped back to the channel I was watching. Victory! And of course, when she clyped to Ma or Da that I’d “broken” the TV, the evidence had evaporated and the TV now worked perfectly.
Of course, being a snottery, finger sookin’ young smartarse, I wasn’t just licking the old fingers, oh no, I was laying it on thick with the old supernatural voodoo powers of telekinesis that I could control the TV with the mind power of concentration… And I knew my big bad sis could never figure out how I was doing it. Lol.
I have a soft spot for the VW advert when the wee boy in the Darth Vader costume is trying his powers out on everything, and gets a “hit” when he gets the car alarm to blip. I get nostalgic remembering my own supernatural “phase” with great fondness and a notable degree of success.
Sky News- No place in parliament if the case against porn at work Tory MP is substantiated?
IF. 2 Female Tory MPs seen this with their own eyes, the guy has admitted it and now we are
supposed to wait and see if they can’t come up with an excuse to get away with it ?
The Tories are trying to wipe the obvious, the Truth, the proven from our minds.
It’s up to their ruling what is right or wrong.
The terror of Orwell’s 1984 is with up and growing in strength.
Resist and repel and bring justice down on their heads before it’s too late.
Everything in Westminster politics is rotten to the core.
@Ian Bunchedpanties 10.17 pm
Fear not, I’ll still be looking in now and then. FWIW I don’t miss the “contributions” of Gregor, Ruby, Putin’s Poodle and some others, and it’s relatively easy to just scroll pass the interminable waffle from James Che et al about their hot takes on constitutional matters.
Perhaps you and your compadres can treat us to another thrilling discussion about whether its right to leave the toilet seat up or down? I
It seems about your level to be fair.
I see Sinn Féin are 6% ahead in polls for the upcoming elections in Northern Ireland and set to become the biggest party and provide the First Minister.
link to irishtimes.com
Anyone else thinking that a united Ireland is going to happen before Scottish independence happens? Constitutional crisis on the way in NI, years more more navel gazing about the Treaties of Union and who is allowed to vote in #indyref2 in Scotland……?
Breeks,
Well said breeks.
Indeed every Scot should be tied down until they have read and able to recite the link that Alf gave above.
Most of it I had been able to research over the last year or so in uk websites and links to old Hansard etc.
Not realising that professionals had done a far superior research than myself. Well done to all, that wrote the sara salyers paper,
Ffs, he’s back spilling his turd soup with crunchy bits everywhere.
We’re definitely not worthy.
@Andy Ellis
Welcome back.
Always appreciative of your input here, even when not personally in agreement.
I note that WGD is still available for those who’s minds cannot handle any diversion of opinion from a rigidly enforced orthodoxy.
When we all contribute to scrutinising the treaty of the unions foundations,
It becomes very obvious that the Scots themselves are not and never were invited to join the treaty of the union.
But more more than that can be gleaned and asserted from the scrutiny when studied, dissected in all its glory,
Much of it does not hold together in its creation even for passing uk statues and legislation legally upon Scotland afterwards never mind within the devolved government.
I am not surprised unionist thinkers try all that is within their power to prevent the Scots looking to thoroughly,
Because the treaty of the union unravels like a bad ball of wool the cat has been at.
Also because it is a very usable for a plan B.
As it comes more and more a talking point on wings we realise that Scots that have remained sovereign, have the ability to alter the direction of Scotlands history, Scotlands governance and Scotlands people for a better life in the near future.
That it is even possible theoretically to sue those we consider not to be working in the best interests of the Scots in Scotland.
I say theoretically, only because the Scots have not tested it yet.
And as the uk parliament states.
It was thought not to put the vote to join the treaty of the union to the Scots in 1707 as the small electorate would have voted against it.
That says all you need to know regards wether the small Scottish electorate are in the treaty of the union.
And that they remained a separate sovereign people in Scotland unattached to the treaty.
Gregs is alive and well and still continuing to post on the ‘Sacrificial Lambs’ thread.
I drop in there from time to time, just to help keep his spirits up and to let him know he is not entirely on his tod.
Maybes somebody else could help? I don’t fully understand what his aims are, so second or third opinions could be useful.
The Parliament in 1706 were well aware that a vote was needed from the Scots.
But decided not to give them a vote to join the treaty of the union,
That was a error in judgement for either parliament.
It left the Scots outside the treaty officially.
@James Che 10:34
Back in 1706, was there any legislative or legal assembly, anywhere in the world, that sought out and then acted on the majority views or wishes of the people it governed, controlled or represented?
I can’t think of any, but please advise if you can.
Seems to me that no laws, treaties, or agreements dating back to 1706 or earlier can be deemed to be valid if a modern, back-dated universal agreement or sufferage condition is a pre-requisite of validity.
So if nothing was legally binding back in 1706, all legislation enacted since then fails, as none of the successor parliaments, committees, councils, etc. have had any legitimacy.
Freedom at last!!!
Now I just have to find out who really owns my house, and how long they will give me before chucking me out on the street.
Robert Hughes says:
29 April, 2022 at 9:53 pm
Ian B
I’ve done that thought experiment eg ” What if we’ve completely misjudged her , and she really believes she’s pursuing the right strategy to achieve Independence ? ”
I do that too, just to try keeping hold of my objectivity.
Got a confession though, from time to time I also don my tinfoil conspiracy hat and dare to look in the other direction; that maybe I’m misjudging her competence alright, but in the other extreme, and that she really is a Unionist stooge deconstructing the Independence movement from within.
I tell myself it’s paranoia, I know it’s paranoia, the woman just likes red… – but seeing her strutting around in her red coat just instantly reminds me of Jimmy Saville hiding for all those years in plain sight.
Ten years down the line, we’ll be watching grainy documentaries on the infamous “leader” of the Independence movement strutting around dressed up as a redcoat, and all of us wondering how we never saw it.
Aye. She just like red. It’s just her taste in colour, even though it doesn’t particularly suit her. But then I remember Leslie Evans wearing a red coat that didn’t suit her, under interrogation at the Fabiani Inquiry… the time she had the sun in her face. Sturgeon and Evans both, two “gal-conspirators” going into battle with red coats on…Coincidence?
Or do I see a pair of cleverdicks in red coats seeing themselves as redcoats doing a number on Scotland’s Alex Salmond?
I know, I know, it’s time to take off the tin foil hat… The pair of them just like a red ensemble. Or maybe it is paranoia on my part, maybe I just get triggered by redcoats and red coats.
Thanks all for the meter-telly feedback, I was wondering if I’d imagined it all.
🙂
John Main.
I will take your bait just this once, and repeat the above for your benefit.
If… you….go…..to…..UK…….Parliament, There………you……will……..find…….the……..answers…….to……both…….
1) Uk….Parliament 2022,….( to quote them )…….The…..Birth…..of……the……English……Parliament…… it states ,
The…..modern…….British…….Parliament…..is…..one……of……the…..oldest…..continuous…..Representative……Assemblies……in …….the……..world.
2) UK…..Parliament 2022,……state.
In…1707 since Scotlands….small….electorate….would….have….problably…..expressed….a…..strong…..dislike…..of….the……union….it……was…..decided……to……avoid…..a…..direct…..election.
So to extend…….
The Parliament decided not to give a vote to the Scots to join the union in 1707.
So did or do the Scots need a referendum vote to end a union, they…never….had…the vote…to…be…in?
To extend further,
The parliaments joined dodgy union.
The monarchy joined a dodgy union.
But the Scots did not.
The remaining Sovereign Scots could call their own Assembly the rest of the union where it is, but / and if they wanted could have the option to sue those not not working in the best interest of the Scots I presume.
Insert.
Leaving the rest of the union where it is,
Can any one recall the exact referendum question asked in 2014.
If mass refusal to return census forms on time is anything to go by, turnout on Thursday could be very low. Disgruntled SNP ‘loyalists’ voting with their arses?
James Che
I am not intentionally baiting anyone. I am simply trying to follow the logic of your claims.
As I understand it, you believe that as the union of 1707 did not adhere to modern norms of representative democracy, then modern norms of representative democracy may be dispensed with in order to sever that union.
Fair enough.
Given that Indy support has been flatlined at 53% No, 47% Yes for years (the subject of this thread), then you have to persuade the anti-Indy majority of Scots, who from their voting/polling responses favour the status quo of the union, that their modern, democratic rights don’t count.
I can’t see a feasible way of doing that. It seems more feasible to me to work towards achieving a modern, representative, democratic, majority for Indy, either via a referendum, or via a plebiscitary election. The harsh and unpleasant fact that the SNP has been at best useless, and at worst sabotaging of that goal, does not change democratic reality.
My intention is to continue to push for the referendum or plebiscitary election routes as being the most likely to achieve lasting and universally accepted recognition of the desire and intention for Indy, within Scotland, rUK, and the rest of the world. A clear democratic majority in favour of a clearly stated and unambiguously defined objective. Unarguable and unstoppable. Fact.
Still, it may be that widespread knowledge and acceptance of the illegality of the events of 1707 (if they were illegal, not just unpopular – discuss) would itself alter the percentages in favour of Indy. Might be worth a try, if you are confident it would not alter the percentages in the other direction.
As if there is going to be an indyref next year for the toolbag Gove to interfere in. Sturgeon the betrayers fanzine the National newspaper will, like the Betrayer look for excuses on who or what to finger point at when no indyref materialises next year.
“FEARS have been raised Michael Gove’s new “supervisory” role over the elections watchdog pose a barrier to indyref2 being held on time.
An arch-Unionist, Gove now has the power to “ride roughshod” over the Electoral Commission which regulates how the UK’s democracy functions. ”
link to 12ft.io
Meanwhile a guy from Devon Scott Sibley stupidly decides to go to Ukraine to kill Russians, the idiot gets captured by Russian forces and then starts to plead I’ve got four kids and I’m a married man, what about the men he was trying to kill do they not have families as well.
Anyway this dumb ass has been treated well by the the Russian forces despite these mad dog mercenaries being forewarned that they would not be covered by the Geneva Convention on war.
James Che. @ 12:58 pm
“Can any one recall the exact referendum question asked in 2014.”
I think the question was “Should Scotland be an independent country?”
It is arguably the wrong question because Scots are already a sovereign people and sovereignty means a people are already constitutionally independent and may therefore enter and leave any treaty-based arrangements as and when they wish. This implies the 2014 question should have been similar to that of the Brexit/EU union treaty withdrawal, e.g.: “Should Scotland remain a member of the United Kingdom Union or leave the United Kingdom Union?” This question would also demonstrate that such a matter is for sovereign Scots alone, and leaves no uncertainty about Scotland being a sovereign nation and people.
sturgeon the betrayers SNP government criticised by Amnesty International for giving weapons manufacturers in Scotland almost £4 million pounds of Scottish taxpayers money in grants.
The weapons guidance systems manufactured by Raytheon in Glenrothes and Livingstone are used to guide Saudi bought missiles, into schools, hospitals, weddings and residential areas in Yemen.
Mind you the Scottish equivalent of the mad warkhawk Hillary Clinton, Nicola Sturgeon, has called for the kick-off of WWIII by twice calling for a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
link to 12ft.io
@John Main 1.40pm
It’s a sair fecht right enough, but somebody’s got to try and insert some logic in to the interminable ramblings about why and how “we wuz robbed” 300 years ago. Credit to you for injecting some long overdue realism in to the fervid imaginings of the constitutional insurgents.
Obviously it’s a subject that gives a small minority in here a huge intellectual and political hard on, so they assume everyone else feels the same and shares their predilection. I can only assume that a fondness for the “Scotland as colony” narrative does something to their power of reasoning or sense of perspective. After all, if you can make people believe in absurdities…..?
The thing is, the vast majority of the Scots public, whether pro or anti independence, don’t give a toss. They are sensible and pragmatic enough to see that dancing on the head of a constitutional pin, however furiously and dextrously performed, doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in the present day.
The only way that the Scottish people, and more importantly in the context of self determination the international community, will recognise the requirement to and validity of abandoning “conventional” means of achieving our goal (a referendum or plebiscitary elections) is after we have exhausted these routes, or in the face of violence or widespread oppression.
People here don’t care about the history or the minutiae of arcane constitutional arguments, particularly when they are being discussed by amateurs with no real clue what they are talking about like James Che et al. The international community certainly doesn’t care about the Treaty of Arbroath, Claim of Right or Treaties of Union: they’re colourful history, nothing more.
Dozens of other countries with none of these things have successfully achiever their independence. Most of them had much more in the way of obstacles than Scotland has, whether economically, socially, or politically. The fact that the people are sovereign in Scotland rather than parliament as in England is a given, even to many Scots unionists, but it doesn’t really help if the majority of the people remains against independence.
Those advocating novel means of propelling us to the sunny uplands of independence while bypassing the need for a referendum or plebiscitary election are still coming up empty when it comes to explaining how this constitutional route will work and how it will be legitimised.
Who is appointing the representatives to these constitutional bodies?
How do we show – other than via a binary referendum or plebiscitary election – that the majority of Scots support this novel approach?
If we’re not relying on current political parties, who is doing the campaigning and organising this new movement?
How are you going to convince enough people to produce the required majority in a shorter timescale than just focusing on winning plebiscitary elections?
Strange that none of those so enthused by the new approach are able to answer such basic questions, isn’t it?
Here it points out how Brexit has been an unmitigated disaster for the UK, and it will greatly contribute to poverty and price rises and the steady decline of our living standards.
On top of this imports coming into the UK will not be checked, and the UK government has been warned, that foods and live stock carrying diseases will be free to enter the UK along with cheaper inferior foods that will undermine our own food producers.
However for our own exporters, they will not be so lucky the EU will still be sticking to its strict regulations and red tape for UK goods entering the EU.
Thanks to Sturgeon the betrayer for ignoring Scotland and saving it from this union, instead the betrayer decided to try and save England from itself, the sooner we get this charlatan out of office the better, vote Alba on the 5th of May to get the ball rolling.
link to 12ft.io
Republicofscotland @ 1:57 pm
“toolbag Gove to interfere”
It seems likely that Gove and his UK SNP/SG operatives may be awaiting the census results, which they had delayed for a year already and are now subject to another delay, before giving any UK-ok for another indyref. Clearly they need to know how well the inbound ‘No’ voter demographic policy is working.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
” which they had delayed for a year already and are now subject to another delay, before giving any UK-ok for another indyref. ”
That’s right Alf, I think if I recall correctly the census has cost taxpayers more due to it being a year late, and I also recall that Sturgeon held back the census till after last years Holyrood elections, I sense an ulterior motive there.
I also seem to recall important documents were also held back from the inquiry, until after last May’s elections, into the cock-up of the procedure by the SNP government against Alex Salmond, (in which he was awarded a hefty sum of cash) and a somewhat redacted version was eventually released post May 6th last year.
Ian Brotherhood says:
30 April, 2022 at 1:21 pm
If mass refusal to return census forms on time is anything to go by, turnout on Thursday could be very low. Disgruntled SNP ‘loyalists’ voting with their arses?
Would that not depend on why people refused to fill in the census on time?
The turn out on Thursday could be high for the same reason that Census returns were low.
Protesting by requesting a paper copy & filling in Religion = ‘Believer in Biology’ was the only thing that spurred me on to fill it in (also the idea of a £1k fine.)
I believe the Census whether everyone filled it or not will produce ‘useless data’
Those who didn’t fill it in probably thought the same and asked themselves why am I wasting my time with this garbage.
Alf Baird.
Thanks for the info and help.
I am just getting around to the idea that not only did it appear to be the wrong question to sovereign Scots living in their own country,
As Scots had never given up their country nor were they ever asked too.
So officially Scotland remained an independent Country except for contrived smoke and mirrors, ie codswallop.
I agree that the old parliament of the three estates may have hung drawn and quartered themselves privately and there families for all time coming.
However the actual sovereign Scots citizens and population avoided that by not being included. And by not choosing or picking the commissioners as their represenatives. Never mind the parliament of the three estates.
With the acknowledgement on the uk parliament site to exclude the Scots in joining in the treaty of the union,
So perhaps the UK government nor the devolved government had the authority to pass the referendum legislation over sovereign Scots in their own country for which they had deliberately excluded by avoiding the question of a election in the first place in 1707,
Where do these facts actually fit in to the treaty of the union.
John Main.
I actually separated each word for you so you could understand that the issue is not modern theory,
Rather that the English Parliament in 1707 after debating, thought it unwise to give the Scots a vote by election on joining the treaty of the union, as they would vote against it.
It was the English parliament in 1706/07 that was aware it should be put to an election in Scotland to the Scots.
But did not think the Scots would vote how the english parliament wanted them to. Or in their favour..
So decided not to put it to an 1706/07 election in Scotland.
You will find it on uk parliament if you care to look.
@Republic 1:57
If people are determined to take your freedom from you at gun point, reality tells you that sometimes the only way to stop them is to kill them.
A depressing and disappointing fact from history down the ages. Nevertheless, a fact.
Main.
Tell that to the Russian speaking Ukrainians including pregnant women and children forced into a municipal building in Odessa which was set on fire as the baying mob outside (Nazi’s) laughed and shouted obscenities at them as they burned to death.
You Nazi loving scumbag.
Who would believe the latest leader of London Labour’s North Accounting unit would lie
and manipulate to stop Scotland doing better than the fatherland in dealing with Covid.
link to twitter.com
On the forthcoming election campaign I can report on receiving 5 leaflets from the Fib Dems,
2 from SLabour, 1 from Tory Dross and lastly 1 from SNP.
Unfortunately there isn’t an Alba Candidate here so begrudgingly SNP a candidate I had tried to call and E-mail on a pressing matter and after the event contacted me to say she had been without a council phone for weeks as it was lost? and had built up too many E-mails to respond to during Covid?
God help us!
@Putin’s Poodle 3.43 pm
It’s no surprise to anyone here that you would parrot the Kremlin’s agitprop about the tragic events in Odesa, nor indeed that you seem singularly focused – indeed focused to the exclusion of anything else – on harms done to Russians in the Donbas or in this instance Odesa – to the exclusion of any concern about the deaths of Ukrainians and ethnic Russians who support Ukrainian independence at the hands of Russian nationalists.
It won’t take anyone with an internet connection more than a few minutes to discover that the picture about events in Odesa is much more complex than the caricature you chose to present. However tragic the deaths of 46 people were in 2014, trying to use them as a stick to beat the 2022 Ukrainian government or people is nonsensical.
John Main isn’t a nazi lover or a scumbag for pointing out the obvious. You however can’t bring yourself to admit any harms against Ukrainians, or express regret for civilian deaths or the war crimes committed by Russians troops in Bucha. Everyone knows these are happening, and that they vastly outnumber the previous deaths in scale, yet you either deny they are happening altogether or simply ignore them and focus exclusively on Russian losses.
People might almost think you had an agenda.
You are of course a skid mark on the independence movement for your lack of empathy and shilling for Putin and his orcs, but that’s been evident for a long while. Nobody with any perspective accepts your world view or your slavish devotion to and acceptance of the Kremlin’s propaganda.
Well at least the Scots would not be not be taken anyones freedom at gun point thank goodness. We would be given it to people instead,
And england whom has done nothing but complain of subsidising Scotland for years will be released from their burden,
To be free and independent once more.
To have a sovereign parliament over people.
It would actually be very kind of us.
That is unless we have got something they want in our country , then they may act all colonial and tell Scots their not allowed to be free.
Alf Baird says:
30 April, 2022 at 2:12 pm
“Should Scotland remain a member of the United Kingdom Union or leave the United Kingdom Union?” This question would also demonstrate that such a matter is for sovereign Scots alone, and leaves no uncertainty about Scotland being a sovereign nation and people.
Agreed 100%
Well 99%, my question would have been “Should Scotland end the 1707 Treaty of Union?”
I think YES might have romped home a clear winner.
“John Main isn’t a nazi lover or a scumbag for pointing out the obvious.”
Agent Ellis.
One Nazi lover coming to the defence of another how touching, it would bring tears to a glass eye, no doubt you and Main have matching Hugo Boss jackets.
Quick update for folks re possible low turn out… we are getting a very positive response from folk on the doors – particularly compared to May 2021.
Folk are shaking off Covid Lock down and are very angry and worried about their energy bill increases – even No voters are engaging in conversation.
I’ll say that bit again – even No voters are instigating and engaging in the conversation about if we can/if we should.
Feedback from one, was I’m still not for it, but I can see support for it rising.
There are Yessers who are scunnered, but plenty more who can see the benefit of voting for Alba in this elections – given that it is not an ‘either/or’ choice.
I’m confident that if we do not get the break through this time, we will have built the foundations for the next vote. Specially when the bills keep landing on the doormat.
@Putin’s Poodle 6.35 pm
Give it up mate: nobody sane believes you represent more than a tiny percentage of the movement, still less the Scottish electorate as a whole. It’s very doubtful you’re really a Scottish independence supporter or activist at all, but we’ll never know because you know your narrative is poison to the movement.
That’s why you and those fluffing for your Putinista agenda are overwhelmingly snivelling anonymous cowards. You know that if you did reveal yourselves, you’d be shunned by right thinking people everywhere, just as those spouting your empathy free filth were ejected from Alba quicker than you call anyone who disagrees with your agitprop a nazi.
You’re not on the right side of history, you’re either a paid operative sitting somewhere in Russia doing your masters bidding, or – perhaps worse – a convinced Putinista. Skid mark is as skid mark does.
“Azov has infiltrated other organizations, especially some units of the Ukrainian regular military, the national guard, the police and the internal secret security organization SBU. Azov is by far not the only fascist (para-)military organization in Ukraine. There is the Aidar battalion, the Right Sector, the C-14 ‘youth’ organization of the fascist Svoboda party as well as a dozen other such organization.”
“These groups are not only not prohibited as they should be but get encouraged and partially financed by the Ukrainian government.”
Over the years many ‘western’ media have correctly reported about the Ukrainian fascists. Here is an incomplete collection (h/t Antispin):
15,000 Ukraine nationalists march for divisive Bandera – Jan 1 2014 – USA Today
Is the US backing neo-Nazis in Ukraine? – Feb 25 2014 – Salon
How the far-right took top posts in Ukraine’s power vacuum – Mar 5 2014 – Channel 4
Rein in Ukraine’s neo-fascists – Mar 6 2014 – CNN
Denying the Far-Right Role in the Ukrainian Revolution – Mar 7 2014 – FAIR
The Neo-Nazi Question in Ukraine – Mar 11 2014 – Huffpost
Yes, There Are Bad Guys in the Ukrainian Government – Mar 18 2014 – Foreign Policy
Analysis: U.S. Cozies Up to Kiev Government Including Far Right – Mar 30 2014 – NBCnews
Profile: Ukraine’s ultra-nationalist Right Sector – Apr 28 2014 – BBC
The Neo-Nazi Question in Ukraine – May 11 2014 – Huffpost
Fascism returns to the continent it once destroyed – May 12 2014 – TNR
Ukraine conflict: ‘White power’ warrior from Sweden – Jul 16 2014 – BBC
Preparing for War With Ukraine’s Fascist Defenders of Freedom -, Aug 30 2014 – Foreign Policy
German TV Shows Nazi Symbols on Helmets of Ukraine Soldiers – Sep 9 2014 – NBCnews
Azov fighters are Ukraine’s greatest weapon and may be its greatest threat – Sep 10 2014 – Guardian
Volunteer Ukrainian unit includes Nazis – Mar 10 2015 – USA Today
US House Admits Nazi Role in Ukraine – Jun 14 2015 – Consortium News
Why Ukraine’s New Ultranationalist Party Will Not Last – Oct 19 2016 – Atlantic Council
Ukraine’s Hyper-Nationalist Military Summer Camp for Kids | NBC Left Field (vid) – Jul 13 2017 – NBCnews
The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda – Nov 9 2017 – The Hill
The US is Arming and Assisting Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, While Congress Debates Prohibition – Jan 18 2018 – The RealNews Network
In Ukraine, Ultranationalist Militia Strikes Fear In Some Quarters – Jan 30 2018 – RFERL
Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem – Mar 19 2018 – Reuters
America’s Collusion With Neo-Nazis – May 2 2018 – The Nation
Ukraine’s Got a Real Problem with Far-Right Violence (And No, RT Didn’t Write This Headline) – Jun 20 2018 – Atlantic Council
Ukraine, Anti-Semitism, Racism, and the Far Right? – Oct 16 2018 – Atlantic Council
Azov, Ukraine’s Most Prominent Ultranationalist Group, Sets Its Sights On U.S., Europe – Nov 14 2018 – RFERL
Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine – Feb 22 2019 – The Nation
Ultranationalism in Ukraine – a photo essay – Apr 11 2019 – Guardian
There’s One Far-Right Movement That Hates the Kremlin – Apr 17 2019 – Foreign Policy
Is America Training Neonazis in Ukraine? – Dec 8 2019 – DailyBeast
The Azov Regiment has not depoliticized – Mar 19 2020 – Atlantic Council
Like, Share, Recruit: How a White-Supremacist Militia Uses Facebook to Radicalize and Train New Members – Jan 7 2021 – Time
Profile: Who are Ukraine’s far-right Azov regiment? – Mar 1 2022 – Aljazeerah
How Ukraine’s Jewish president Zelensky made peace with neo-Nazi paramilitaries on front lines of war with Russia – Mar 4 2022 – Grayzone
Ukraine’s Nazi problem is real, even if Putin’s ‘denazification’ claim isn’t – Mar 6 2022 – NBCnews
Right-wing Azov Battalion emerges as a controversial defender of Ukraine – Apr 6 2022 – Washington Post
A link would help.
link to moonofalabama.org
Daisy walker.
That is uplifting to hear.
I dont think there is any correlation between the Scottish census that was done and possible turn out votes in the council elections.
It perhaps was more a case of the Scots did not think the question on the cenus form appropriate,
Voluntary or not.
Alf Baird.
Breeks.
That sound much more appropriate as the question.
And of course it was not settled in 2014 even with the wrong question, as It is the Scots that are sovereign, and no parliament constitutionally own Scots Sovereignty, as Lord Cooper Recognised.
Ellis and the other Zelensky fans are asking us to deny the evidence of our own eyes and ears.
Have just watched a brief video, attached to a tweet, which shows a young couple, presumably Russian-speaking Ukrainians, with their heads daubed green, the girl’s scalp shaved, being tortured by someone off-camera. The lass looks utterly terrified. There’s no indication of where/when the film was taken but the treatment is typical of that dished out to those called ‘orcs’ by Azov supporters.
I’m not posting the link because it’s genuinely sickening.
That lass is probably the same age as my daughter. If I could get my hands on who was hurting her I would happily tear him limb from limb.
But according to Ellis and a few others, we *must* support Ukraine/Zelensky/Azov, and the many other fascist groups now active in the region.
Well fuck Ellis and his buddies. I won’t be told who to hate, who to support, or what to think, by him or any one else coming here to sow unrest and ill-will.
@Putin’s Poodle 7.05 pm
You’re linking to sources that hole your own case – such as it is – below the water line. Nobody is denying there isn’t a problem with far right groups in the Ukraine. There are far right groups in the Donbas and Russia too, but their existence wouldn’t entitle neighbouring countries to invade Russia to root them out.
Many of the articles your source links too make the very point the adults in the room here have been making to you for months: Putin’s denazification claims are bullshit, even as they admit there are questions to be answered about far right groups. Right thinking people, unlike you it seems, are quite capable of weighing the evidence and seeing that there is no evidence supporting the Putinista narrative.
Why you are so convinced by it is your own affair. Some people can be prevailed upon to believe all sorts of bullshit of course, as the recent evidence of those insisting that the Covid vaccine is responsible for recent hepatitis outbreaks in children: you’re just another fringe conspiracy nut. Sadly your woo-woo reflects badly on the movement and pollutes the legacy of this site. Luckily there are still adults in the room to show you up for what you are.
@Ian Bunchedpanties 7.35 pam
No, we’re not asking you to deny anything. Acts of violence and murder are wring whoever commits them. The thing is, those acts don’t justify what’s going on, nor do they support the false narrative that Ukraine is somehow a failed state or captured by neonazis.
There’s no compulsion about it: we’re just entitled to believe people when they tell us who they are. We know for instance that Putin’s Poodle is a slavishly loyal Putinista who is on record as saying the Ukrainians had it coming and has never expressed the same kind of regret for the thousands of dead Ukrainian civilians that he demands we express for the dead in the Donbas.
You appear to be little better. We see you. Pro-Putin views like yours and mealy mouthed apologias for Russian aggression and war crimes in the Ukraine are poison for the movement: whataboutery about what happened in the Ukraine, or the sins of the west elsewhere in the world don’t excuse your lack of empathy or a moral compass.
Ellis can keep punting his boilerplate comments here until kingdom come – it won’t change the simple fact that he is excusing blatant war crimes by actual Nazis and berating anyone who dares contradict the UK/US/NATO narrative.
He hasn’t *once* addressed any of the evidence presented here, by a variety of regulars, showing irrefutable evidence of MSM fakery. The ‘mass graves’ story from last week? Totally fake. Eva Bartlett, independent journalist, took the trouble to go there and find out the truth. It’s easy to find her reports via Twitter, GETTR etc. But no, according to Ellis, we mustn’t even check these things for ourselves because Putin bad etc.
Bunchedpanties can keep punting his denial of Russian war crimes until kingdom come – it wont change the simple fact that he is excusing blatant war crimes by actual Nazis and berating anyone who dares contradict the Putinista narrative.
He hasn’t *once* addressed any of the evidence presented here, by a variety of regulars, showing irrefutable evidence of Russian fakery. The ‘mass graves’ story from last week? Totally fake. Eva Bartlett is a Canadian activist, commentator, and blogger who has propagated conspiracy theories in connection to the Syrian civil war, most notably the disproven allegation that the White Helmets stage rescues and “recycle” children in its videos. But no, according to Bunchedpanties, we mustn’t even check these things for ourselves because Zelensky bad etc.
Give it up Ian. Nobody but a small coterie of far left nutters buys this QAnon conspiracy theorising bullshit. You’re just the same kind of desperate shills for the far left who defended the Soviets when the crushed the Hungarian uprising, the Czech Spring and Solidarity in Poland.
Bartlett by the way is described on Wikipedia as a core member of a group of “Assad’s Western apologists”, alongside Vanessa Beeley, Sharmine Narwani, and Max Blumenthal; their work is disseminated by a “spectrum of far-left, anti-West conspiracy theorists; anti-Semites; supporters of Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah; libertarians; and far-right groups”.
Nice company you keep there Ian. Can’t say I’m at all suprised!
link to en.wikipedia.org
For those who may be curious about Eva Bartlett and don’t just swallow everything that appears on Wikipedia:
link to thelastamericanvagabond.com
Ian Brotherhood @8.25pm.
Yeah Ian, especially interesting is the Canadian war reporter (bearing in mind Canada is very pro-Zelensky and Ukraine) travelling to Ukraine Mariupol to be precise to find the mass graves of Ukrainian citizens supposedly killed by Russian forces as expressed by the Mayor of Mariupol, who has now went into hiding or disappeared.
After extensive searches by the Canadian reporter no mass graves of any sort were found, which is very unsurprising. The Bucha and Kramatorsk events were also carried out by Ukrainian forces.
Its Nazi loving Ellis’s job to defend the indefensible, that’s what makes him all the more revolting.
Uh huh…multiple sources in the Wikipedia entry that Bartlett is a conspiracy theorist, but because you post one source we’re all supposed to be convinced that she’s right and all the others are wrong?
Truly there are not enough LOLZ in the world.
So how about the three bodies found in Bucha on 29th April Ian?
“The victims were tortured for a long period of time, bullet wounds were found on the extremities. Finally, each of the men was shot in the ear,” said Kyiv’s regional police chief Andriy Nebytov in the statement.”
link to english.alarabiya.net
Are they fakes too? Have the Ukrainian police made that up, or are you going to try and tell us the Ukrainians were responsible for torturing and murdering these Ukrainian civilians themselves?
It takes a special kind of person to see all the evidence of Russian war crimes in the Ukraine, of civilians being killed in their own apartments and work places by Russian missiles, being shot in the streets of Bucha, and simply refuse to believe they happened, or that they are fake news.
Don’t you have any empathy for them Ian? Any sympathy for their families and friends? Why is your concern directed only one way?
New blog article by Grouse Beater.
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Ian.
Its worth bearing in mind also that the Russian forces haven’t begun an all out attack on the Azovstal complex in Mariupol mainly due to the hundreds of civilian hostages the Nazi’s are holding, also in the mix is the hundreds of international advisors, trainers, military personnel etc from the UK, France, US etc, also hold up in the complex.
At least eight rescue attempts by helicopter have failed to rescue VIPs from the bunker, and a thirty-vehicle long column sporting Russian markings (Z and V) tried to breakout of the complex but it was destroyed and the Nazi’s and VIPs had to retreat back underground.
As usual the Western media’s propaganda is focusing on the trapped civilians in the complex, no mention that they are actually hostages and human shields.
On Bucha, the RF left and two days later the Nazi’s and their Gestapo the SBU entered town. On the day the RF left the mayor of Bucha, now in hiding or disappeared (anyone see a pattern here Mayor of Mariupol the same) after giving a video interview there were no bodies on the ground and the mayor never mentioned anything about the RF killing anyone.
Its been suggested that the citizens were killed by the SBU Gestapo and the Nazi’s and laid out for cooperating with RF by wearing a white arm band and taking food supplies issued by the
RF.
As for the Kramatorsk train event, the booster section of the Tochka-U missile, a missile RF do not use and haven’t used for years still displayed its serial number which was traced back to Ukrainian stocks.
Hi Andy Ellis.
Why is it that you feel the need to break one of Rev Stu’s rules, ie,
And by all means disagree, by all means disagree forcefully – but argue with people’s views, don’t insult them personally
by referring to Ian Brotherhood as “Bunchedpanties”?
Are you so insecure in your own online personality that you have to make fun of others?
I have met Ian B umpteen times and he is is no “Bunchedpanties”, unlike yourself, it would appear.
@Putin’s Poodle 9.05 pm
More fake news from the Putinista shills as per. Back in the real world:
“CONSPIRACY ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF HIDDEN NATO BIO-LABORATORY UNDER THE “AZOVSTAL” FACTORY”
link to mythdetector.ge
“Secret NATO Headquarters Under Azovstal Exposed?!”
link to techarp.com
@Brian 9.20 pm
So calling him Binchedpanties is wrong, but him saying me and my buddies can fuck off because we sow unrest and ill-will is fine? Away and gie yersel a shake man…it might help re-connect both your brain cells!
@Brian 9.20 pm
also, you unspeakable hypocrite….where were you when that foul mouthed harridan Ruby was referring to me as a cunt every post she seemed to make? Or when Putin’s Poodle routinely calls anyone who points out his conspiracy theorising a nazi?
Odd your concern seems so personally directed.
Par for the course amongst some of the hard of thinking in here of course.
Daisy Walker says:
30 April, 2022 at 6:46 pm
‘I’m confident that if we do not get the break through this time, we will have built the foundations for the next vote. Specially when the bills keep landing on the doormat’
Thanks for the update, Daisy, and great respect and appreciation for the miles trudged by you and your fellow campaigners. I remember well your regular reports of a year ago, and though the result was disappointing then and did not reflect the efforts on the trail, you can hold your heads high.
I think you got it spot on above and are right about bills on the doormat being a game-changer: the crippling increases this month and those in the pipeline are going to result in widespread anger. The 64,000-dollar question is how will that anger manifest itself?
On reflection, I shouldn’t have made that comment last night, the one about it being ‘nice’ that Andy wasn’t around.
I unreservedly apologise for jinxing the place.
🙁
This is remarkable…
Just last week, we blethered briefly about Nicola appearing on Loose Women, right?
How did we miss this?
She lied, blatantly, about ‘misleading parliament’. She has, basically, exonerated herself. Talk about brass fuckin neck?!
(This is why I wish to fuck Rev was covering this stuff, it’s coming thick and fast, hard to keep up with.)
link to twitter.com
Here, again, is the link to Grousebater’s latest article, about Ukraine.
Only 6 comments so far.
Just posting this in the hope that Ellis will take the opportunity to share his knowledge with Gareth and his readers.
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Hi Andy Ellis.
Having been married twice (to biological women), I know how much they hate the C-word.
For Ruby to call you that, denotes a loathing for you, (shared by others, I think), that transcended usual literal decorum.
Please, get over yourself!
Simple but great poster for the Polling Stations
If you are a Tory Voter
Stay Home
Save Lives
Save the NHS
oh fk ellis is back
whoop de fkn whoop
listen toss pot every conflict the US has been involved in since the end of the second world has been based on lies , not one but every single one and a plant like you and the other two tossers are on here protesting their innocence fk me honestly .
I guess you believe everyone is as dumb as you 3 fkrs who seem to spend your day parked here spreading total shite .
The USA is the most dangerous nation on the planet prove otherwise toss pot
@Robert Graham (12.13) –
Nice one, made me LOL, very very rare these days…
🙂
IanB, Grousebeater has long sussed out that individual and will mince him if he appears.
Great article(s) on Grousebeater he gives space to a journalistic god too.
P.S I hold you responsible for the invasive species.
Breeks @ 11.13
Don’t know about * tin foil * hats , they’ve became ineffective to repel the across-the-board wall-to-wall naked propaganda coming at us from all * mainstream * sources . Reinforced concrete bunnets may be the required headwear de nos jours .
What do these people have in common ?
Noam Chomsky
Chris Hedges
John Pilger
John Mearsheimer
Glenn Greenwald
Craig Murray
The Grayzone
Democracy Now
” And numerous others ”
Apart , that is , from being well-known Putinista shills and Conspiracy Theory wackos .
Well , it turns out they are ALL wrong about U.S culpability for provoking the current * situation * in Ukraine ; yip , all these veteran critics of US Foreign Policy , known and respected for their decades-long commitment to truthful analysis of the bottomless duplicity/hypocrisy of * our * great upholders of Democracy , are talking shite , don’t have a clue
Thankfully for us , we are privileged to have some experts on International Relations amongst us to point out the errors of these no-mark * fellow travellers * and keep we easily misled amateurs on the straight and narrow path of correct interpretation .
Aye Robert , I have been thoroughly convinced of my ‘wrong thinking ‘ by the ‘experts’.
Mind you it takes a long time to scroll past – their verbosity knows no bounds.
Brian Doonthetoon says:
30 April, 2022 at 10:27 pm
Hi Andy Ellis.
Having been married twice (to biological women), I know how much they hate the C-word.
For Ruby to call you that, denotes a loathing for you, (shared by others, I think), that transcended usual literal decorum.
Please, get over yourself!
Is he still going on about that?
I would suggest the best thing to do about ‘that cunt Ellis’ is to totally ignore him. He and his pal John Main are a couple of flame-baiters and their posts are designed to wind you up!
Neither of them will listen to any of you plebs regarding their
behaviour!
@Ian Bunchedpanties 10.25 pm
Perhaps the reason there are only 6 comments as of this morning is that few people agree with him and fewer still now care what Gareth thinks? His views on the issue, and those of the folks in here agreeing with him just don’t enjoy much popular support. You can rage against the machine all you like, but it won’t change the reality.
The vast majority don’t buy the Putinista agenda. They don’t accept Ukraine needed to be denazified or demilitarised and they overwhelmingly support the measures taken to ship armaments to the Ukraine, and to ensure that Russia not only doesn’t succeed in it’s war of aggression, but that it emerges weakened to the extent it can never behave in the same way again. The long term aim should indeed be to encourage the break up of the Russian Federation, and freedom for the many subject peoples suffering under its yoke.
Putin’s “special military operation” has achieved the opposite of what he wanted. Finland and Sweden will soon be NATO members, the Ukraine will enter the EU as will Moldova and Georgia. On balance it’s much more likely that Putin will fail and be deposed than that the west would allow him to declare victory or to dismember Ukraine, and/or install a puppet regime like the one in Belorussia.
I’ve no real interest in interacting with Gareth’s blog. Such is lack of reason that he went out of his way to call me “English Ellis” because I took issue with his support for the regressive nativist position, which seems an odd thing for someone like him who was othered and expelled by the SNP to do, particularly as I was one of those who defended him and even publicly resigned my SNP membership at the time in protest at the shabby treatment he received.
It only goes to show you that you can’t really make windows into people’s souls, and that folk you always thought were fairly sound can turn out to be utter roasters. That’s proven to be the case with a number of people in here of course: the #indyref1 big tent collapsed some time ago. Sharing the same ultimate goal doesn’t mean we have to agree on everything else of course, but the views of many on some topics actually turn my stomach.
Thankfully I know that their views – whether on Ukraine, Covid vaccine denial,or nativism are very much the minority. That’s not going to change either.
Dorothy D @ 8.01
🙂
Wow. Just wow.
I have as much difficulty getting people to believe the irrationality, hatred and unpleasantness of some of the skid marks here, as I have getting people to believe the corruption, criminality and amateurism of the SNP regime.
I posted a couple of times that for the sake of the upcoming election, we should try to tone it down. But the hatred, contempt and loathing we Scots have for our fellow Scots is too overpowering to be parked for even a couple of weeks.
So the accusations of s*um and c*nt fly backwards and forwards once again, while the less vocal regulars sit on their hands and say and do nothing.
Cheers, guys and gals. Way to go, if you want to change minds and drive the Indy cause forwards amongst the undecided and the first-time interested, taking a look at the world’s most-read Indy site to see how the land lies.
@Robert Hughes 11.13 pm
Aye, it’s a hard job right enough, but somebody’s got to do it. The hard of thinking – particularly the wee coven of the Putinista Loyal in here – are simply incapable of seeing that even folk who agree that the west and USA in particular did not handle the run up to Putin’s invasion well, and who accept some if not all of the narrative about the west’s failures in the past and in other regions of the world, simply don’t buy the full on “conspiracy nut” narrative about the “special military operation”.
Even some who do actually buy in to the view that Russia had a right to dictate that the Ukraine should never be allowed to join NATO and the EU, aren’t prepared to accept the full Putinista playbook that no war crimes have been committed, and that the Ukraine is chock full of nazis, or that they had it coming. Whether all of you buy in to the full-on denial of Russian aggression and war crimes or just keep silent because you lack the moral courage to take a stand is open to question, and largely besides the point. It doesn’t say much for you of course, but then the whataboutery about the west’s culpability for other conflicts doesn’t help solve the current crisis does it?
Those who are convinced Putinista’s, and those enabling them by saying Putin had a point and should be allowed to achieve some if not all of his aims, are so out of step with mainstream opinion it’s almost comical. There’s no anti-war movement or protests about policy on the Ukraine because virtually everyone except the nutter fringe accepts that the Russians have to be defeated, that the whole of the Ukraine needs to be restored, and that the Russian leadership need to be held responsible for the war crimes and that Russia makes full reparation for the damages caused.
Of course, it’s not a sin to be as ignorant as some of the Putinista shills in here undoubtedly are, it IS however a sin to be as proud of it as they seem to be.
@Ruby 8:29
Sorry you are totally ignoring me, but no hard feelings.
@John Main 8.57 am
Oh rationality left the building here some time ago John, I think that’s pretty obvious. Most of the adults gave up in disgust when the basket of deplorables started plastering the place with their nativist bullshit, anti vaccine woo woo or just plain spamming like Gregor.
The alacrity with which some swallowed the Putinista playbook whole was actually something of a surprise. I mean, it’s one thing to be dismayed at US and western policy elsewhere in the world, but it’s a fair leap to accept the full on conspiracy theorising about there being no Russian war crimes, or the totally deranged Putin’s Poodle world view.
I imagine the most read thing is largely people checking archive stuff, not that there is much in the way of viable alternatives: WGD? Grousebeater? Ian Lawson’s blog? I don’t think so somehow.
Things have changed since 2014 of course. Achieving independence isn’t going to be done the way folk thought then, or expected in the immediate aftermath of the defeat. How the fringe elements in here think they are helping achieve the ultimate goal escapes me, but in the end it doesn’t really matter because they represent a vanishingly small element of the movement. That’s not to say they can’t to damage and shouldn’t be confronted of course. The abuse and the inchoate screeching are just indications they know how little traction they actually have.
Good!
A couple of ugly little facts that don’t support the popular “evil western Satans goaded that nice Mr Putin into invasion so they can dismember Russia” narrative.
1) After the Russian invasion, Biden’s first impulse was to evacuate the Ukrainian government to safety and let Russia annexe the country. This famously caused Zelensky to state he was looking for assistance, not a ride. The reality that Ukrainians would fight to protect their homes and freedoms totally blindsided the west.
2) Biden’s approach to Ukraine was, of course, entirely consistent with US and wider western policy of appeasement and failure, most famously resulting in us being handed our respective arses on plates by the medieval child-mutilators and women-abusers of Taliban Afghanistan.
Facts, eh? Awkward little bastards.
Its like having a few Daniel Defoe’s on wings over Scotland.
Except , at least he pretended to run with the hare and hunt with the hound
This small group just hunt…no matter the topic.
@Andy Ellis 9:25
It is impossible for me to understand the thought processes that allow somebody who claims to be a supporter of Scots Indy, and a hardline opposer of the imperial aggressors that deny Scotland her Independence, to also vociferously support a different imperial aggressor as it attempts to crush and enslave a vigorously independent and sovereign nation.
Quite impossible.
It’s not that I don’t get the “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” logic. Of course I do. But to try to apply this logic in defence of Russia’s criminal aggression is demented lunacy.
Ukraine was never an enemy or opposer of Scotland’s independence. In fact, everything I see and hear about Ukraine and the Ukrainians leads me to conclude that they would be just the sort of staunch and reliable international ally Scotland will need. One that can sympathise with, understand and advise us on the difficulties and problems a newly-independent nation must deal with in a world of competing power blocs.
But yet a committed minority on here wish to see Ukraine destroyed, and enthusiastically cheer on her destroyers.
As I said, calling this demented lunacy is letting them off lightly.
@John Main 9.34 am
Indeed. Odd that none of the Putinista’s or their morally vacuous shills are prepared to open their Kimonos and tell us how they see the current “special military operation” playing out, what the future will be like for what is left of the Ukraine, and perhaps most importantly in our context what the implications of that are for the international security environment generally and specifically for the prospects of independence for Scotland and other similar small countries seeking self determination from larger imperialist neighbours.
It seems to me a hard sell that you can argue as the Putinistas do, that the Ukraine is either not a “real” country and that Russia should be free to extinguish its independence altogether, or that because Russia has a right to colonial style “sphere of influence” it is allowed to dictate to Ukraine what is is and is not “allowed” to do.
What kind of nationalist accepts the validity of such constraints? Surely sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander: if Russia is allowed to illegally annexe the Crimea, then carve out the Donbas and “Novrossiya” from the present day Ukraine, what is to stop China invading Taiwan or asserting it’s right to occupy most of South East Asia? Why wouldn’t rump UK make the same argument WRT the Scottish Borders, or the Northern Isles, or Faslane as the new Guantanamo?
It’s not hard to find lots of articles at present from a plethora of sources discussing future history and how the war in Ukraine might end and the long term implications. The future isn’t ours to see of course, but I’d lay odds that it won’t include the west simply allowing the Russians to do what they want, because in the end of course that’s what the Putinistas and appeasers would be quite happy with.
Putin’s hubris and the invasion of Ukraine will of course be seen as a world historical moment, but not for the reasons he hoped. It’s up to us and our governments to ensure the outcome is a free, independent and democratic Ukraine, a defeated Russian state which is held fully accountable for its crimes and hopefully dismantled as a future threat, and the re-forging and strengthening of the EU and NATO, including in due course an independent Scotland.
Putinistas and those who shill for them stand in the way of that, which is why right thinking people shun them and their unreason. It’s not rocket science.
“The alacrity with which some swallowed the Putinista playbook whole was actually something of a surprise. ”
Agent Ellis.
In my opinion no one in here is swallowing anything, the folk in here are bright enough to do the homework and come to their own conclusions on why Russia is carrying out a SMO in Ukraine.
@James 9:36
You will get full and total agreement with everything you post on WGD, if that’s what you really need.
For the umpteenth time, I only really get triggered by lies or logical inconsistencies. OK, also by Indy supporters who want the destruction and enslavement of Ukraine.
Rev Stu will probably intervene if he decides he wants his BTL to adopt the WGD MO and stifle all dissent.
Personally, I get tired of reading endless “I agree with …” posts, but so what? Maybes that’s all most people can handle in these fragile times.
@John Main 10.02 am
Preach brother! I’d no sooner stand shoulder to shoulder and campaign for Scottish independence with moral vacuums who believe such tosh than I would with candy floss haired Twitler Youth simply because we share the same ultimate goal. Both turn my stomach every bit as much as the far right.
A thing I noticed a long time ago from experienced politicians with a bit of guile
the asked the opposed opinion politely to explain how they came to their position and ask for
any support information that backed them up.
Sometimes the did find new information that altered their opinion and found their dignity intact and did not offend anyone when obtaining the answer they seek.
Many personal insults to people posting here.
Don’t you think this would put new or infrequent visitors off.
Put up your opinion with an open mind to responses and agree to disagree without the vitriol
Main.
In 2014 the US via the US embassy in Kiev carried out a coup in Ukraine replacing the democratically elected president of the country with a US puppet, it then ceased to be a democracy.
“Facts, eh? Awkward little bastards”
Great article today on Iain Lawson blog.
Read it to be reminded why it has to be Alba on Thursday.
Ian Brotherhood says:
30 April, 2022 at 8:25 pm
For those who may be curious about Eva Bartlett and don’t just swallow everything that appears on Wikipedia:
link to thelastamericanvagabond.com
Oh FFS Ian, Eva Bartlett writes pieces for RT’s website – the people so happy a few years ago to be doing interviews with Martin Webster, the former leader of the UK National Front and one of the biggest most unapologetic neo-Nazis and anti-Semites of all time (even worse, they had George Galloway, a man long known to have Corbyn style “problems with Jews” doing the interview!
Barlett’s a career Lord Haw Haw who couldn’t even get a job writing pish for the Fortean Times, and all the whatabortery in the world ain’t going to swing it.
Effigy says:
30 April, 2022 at 11:22 pm
Simple but great poster for the Polling Stations
If you are a Tory Voter
Stay Home
Save Lives
Save the NHS
You’re not allow election posters near polling stations.
allowed!
A long and detailed interview (about 15 minutes), with Sir John Curtice about next Thursday`s local elections on Radio Shortbread just now.
I don`t think the word Alba was mentioned once either by SJC or the interviewer. This is quite remarkable in 2022 even for the BBC. Did anyone else notice ?
@ Mark Boyle and Effigy re posters at polling stations: I was an agent at a polling station last year and saw posters about 50 yards from the station. So your poster can be quite close.
Benhope says:
1 May, 2022 at 11:04 am
A long and detailed interview (about 15 minutes), with Sir John Curtice about next Thursday`s local elections on Radio Shortbread just now.
I don`t think the word Alba was mentioned once either by SJC or the interviewer. This is quite remarkable in 2022 even for the BBC. Did anyone else notice ?
Curtice is just a career lickspittle to whoever’s in charge.
He wrote reams of grovelling tomes to the munificence of Scottish Labour to the proles (despite all evidence before one’s eyes to the contrary …) and gleefully rubbing in every electoral defeat or mishap for the SNP. When the century turned, and politics with it, so did he. He’s a man of every season, rather than a man for all seasons.
“Oh FFS Ian, Eva Bartlett writes pieces for RT’s website”
Mark Boyle @10.52pm.
Bartlett was one of the American Herald Tribune writers, she and many other reliable journalists, websites, are now on the the ProporNot Lists, (its decides which is a Russian fake news site and what isn’t) that has links to the Atlantic Council.
The Atlantic Council is an influential extremely militaristic influence network and think-tank, staffed with military, CIA, and their attendant politicians.
sarah says:
1 May, 2022 at 11:28 am
@ Mark Boyle and Effigy re posters at polling stations: I was an agent at a polling station last year and saw posters about 50 yards from the station. So your poster can be quite close.
I don’t care if you did see one – clearly the officer in charge of said polling station wasn’t doing their job (par for the course).
The Polling Stations (Regulation) Bill makes it clear that it is a criminal offence to hand out or leave literature associated with an election or its candidates within 250 metres of the main entrance of a polling station. This was in part to stop the “accidental” leaving of (usually Labour) leaflets in polling booths which was getting beyond a joke in “contentious” areas, but it also applies to any cars with megaphones blasting out “Vote Joe Bloggs” or whoever.
The penalty for breaking this is a maximum of £5000.
@ Mark Boyle: “I don’t care if you did see one..”
Thank you for your courteous way of supplying the legislative basis for your assertion about posters near polling stations.
@Mark Boyle 10.52 am
It’s not worth trying to reason with closed minds like Ian’s and the other Putinistas. You’ll notice that they never respond to direct questions asked of them about things which are reported that don’t fit their narrative. Thus they’ll either flatly deny that Russia has for example committed war crimes in the current war, but they’ll deny or refuse to discuss or respond to questions about ordinary civilians killed by Russian missile strikes or artillery.
These same people however insist that we must publicly express our outrage about inter alia deaths in the Donbas (many of which are of course the responsibility of far right Russian nationalists) and all deaths everywhere ever attributable to the USA or western powers since the dawn of time.
It’s a similar MO to those who insist Muslims must condemn Islamic terrorism, or Jews must condemn the actions of the state of Israel.
There always has been, and doubtless always will be, a minority of the easily led or the simply ill intentioned who will uncritically regurgitate “alternative” media, as though it was unquestionably correct and had no agenda of its own.
Ordinary folk and the vast majority of voters are not so easily misled, nor do they give much credence to the Putinistas world view, however suspicious they may be of the MSM in general. It takes a special kind of stupid to look at the “special military operation” and think you’re on the right side of history supporting Putin. As John Main rightly points out, why any nationalist anywhere would think the Ukraine deserved its fate, or isn’t entitled to both defend itself and tell the Russians they have no veto over their self determination, is totally beyond comprehension.
These people aren’t supporters of Scottish nationalism in any conventional sense, they’re a stain on our movement and a real and present danger to increasing support for it amongst the general voting public.
SNP using a machine gun to shoot themselves in the foot.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
Blackman just never seems able to see beyond to the greater picture.
@Putin’s Poodle 11.32 am
More on the “independent journalist” and Assad regime fan girl Bartlett here from Dr. Muhammad Idrees Ahmad is the Director of the International Journalism programme at the University of Stirling:
link to bylinetimes.com
“Bartlett however was neither “independent” nor a “journalist”; she is a pro-Assad activist who had returned from a regime-chaperoned tour of Aleppo during which she drew derision for sporting an “I ?? Bashar” wristband. The thing that lent credibility to the episode was the august setting of a UN press room. The event, however, was organized by the Syrian regime’s representatives who had merely booked the UN venue. ”
“Propaganda is parasitic, and the success of Russian propaganda has always relied on a vast pool of willing hosts. Some are paid, but many carry the messages through the propulsive force of their own ideology or prejudice.”
“Russian propaganda has long relied on people on the political fringes for amplification. Its messaging is calibrated to the sensitivities of people on the far left and far right. So while its propaganda effort has been hampered by RT America’s decision to cease operations and by the banning of Kremlin-backed news outlets across the EU, its messaging still finds traction through the ecosystem of alternative news sites. But it achieves its best results when it seeds false claims and then amplifies the disinformation produced independently by third parties, thus exploiting the concerns—or paranoia—of actors on the fringes.”
That’s what we’re talking about here isn’t it? You and others are the “actors on the fringes” described by Dr Ahmad.
“Dr. Muhammad Idrees Ahmad”
Agent Ellis.
Idrees Ahmed Really! the toilet bowl dweller Nick Carter will be very disappointed in your performance on here Agent Ellis.
Ahmad is a well known US arse licker, at least both of you have something in common.
link to bennorton.com
Just listening to the Corries and Scotland will Flourish – great song with great words.
English newspaper the Telegraph reports that a “British soldier” not a mercenary has been captured in Ukraine by the RF Andrew Hill is from Plymouth.
Meanwhile Putin has allowed the Red Cross and the UN to evacuate the civilians held hostage in the Azovstal Complex, the Nazi’s will not be so lucky unless they surrender, on that the Nazi’s in the bunker have asked for 600+ wounded Nazi’s within the bunker to also be evacuated, its thought that supplies within the complex are exhausted.
“Head of the DPR Denis Pushilin believes it will all end very soon. He has stated: ‘“Very soon, I really count on it, the situation with Azovstal in Mariupol will be completed, and we will see a large number of mercenaries there,”– he said on the air of Channel One.’”
Will the Nazi’s in the bunker surrender or allow the international troops to surrender and be paraded by the Kremlin, or will they fight to the end, knowing the Nazi’s disdain for human life it will probably be the latter scenario that prevails.
@Putin’s Poodle 1.54 pm
Ah, yes Ben Norton…the one who retweets fascists, holocaust deniers, supporters of race war, homphobia and sexism: THAT Ben Norton? Typical Grayzone far left apparatchik.
The Ben Norton who deleted tweets about the death of a protester in Belarus after it was proven he’d lied about it? THAT Ben Norton?
Could it be the same Ben Norton who tweeted multiple times about the Ukrainian airliner shot down by the Iranians NOT being shot down by the Iranians…..then deleted them all when the Iranians had to admit they had indeed shot down the aircraft? THAT Ben Norton?
Are we seeing a pattern here, alert readers?
“The Grayzone: Conspiracy theories and recycled Russian government disinformation on War and Empire
link to thegrayzoneproject.wordpress.com
The usual sad coterie of tropes about Soros controlling the world, “big-pharma”, climate change denial
sarah says:
1 May, 2022 at 11:48 am
@ Mark Boyle: “I don’t care if you did see one..”
Thank you for your courteous way of supplying the legislative basis for your assertion about posters near polling stations.
Disseminating anecdotes proffered as proof of the legitimacy of actions in an election deserves no courtesy when it could have landed someone with a costly day in court. It’s downright irresponsible.
Instead of taking a petted lip, how about thanking me from stopping you and others from potentially getting yourselves hit in the pocket big time from believing in the fallacy “because someone else did it first and I was a polling agent and stuff so that makes it legal, yah.”
But nah … ain’t gonna happen.
@Putin’s Poodle 2.29 pm
Will these hundreds of international troops you insist are in the Azovstal complex include the US Major General Cloutier you assured us was captured there back at the start of April?
Seems like you went a bit quiet on that one….I wonder why?
Is it because your dezinformatsiya is showing tovarish?
Effigy says:1 May, 2022 at 12:50 pm
SNP using a machine gun to shoot themselves in the foot.
link to dailyrecord.co.uk
There was a crowd of utter fannies in Plastic Whistle clobber making absolute nuisances of themselves on a Glasgow Central to Ayr train I was on that Friday – the time was only half three, but they were tanked up with booze, openly drinking more, and singing for some reason “We’re on our way to Wembley”.
Considering their club lost 3-1 to Ayr, no idea what they had so much to cheer and sing about on their way back to Glasgow, apart from securing the honour of being the easiest pickings in the play-offs.
link to barrheadboy.com
Another decent Prism… Keep watching these folks, you learn a lot, and help Roddy getting a bigger and bigger footprint… Come the day, it might be more important than we realise.
But if you happen to be short of time, (catch the rest when you can), but fast forward 1:03.25 where Sara Salyers starts talking about the Constitution, and in particular, what can be done “now”.
What are we waiting for? Let’s do it.
John Main says:
1 May, 2022 at 10:02 am
@Andy Ellis 9:25
It is impossible for me to understand the thought processes that allow somebody who claims to be a supporter of Scots Indy, and a hardline opposer of the imperial aggressors that deny Scotland her Independence, to also vociferously support a different imperial aggressor as it attempts to crush and enslave a vigorously independent and sovereign nation.
Quite impossible.
It’s not that I don’t get the “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” logic. Of course I do. But to try to apply this logic in defence of Russia’s criminal aggression is demented lunacy.
Ukraine was never an enemy or opposer of Scotland’s independence. In fact, everything I see and hear about Ukraine and the Ukrainians leads me to conclude that they would be just the sort of staunch and reliable international ally Scotland will need. One that can sympathise with, understand and advise us on the difficulties and problems a newly-independent nation must deal with in a world of competing power blocs.
But yet a committed minority on here wish to see Ukraine destroyed, and enthusiastically cheer on her destroyers.
As I said, calling this demented lunacy is letting them off lightly.
================================================================
I would call it increasingly unhinged and deranged – a bit like Putin himself actually. Brit Unionism and Putin’s Russian Imperialism. Twa cheeks of the same arse as I have said before. They are also both aggressive and warlike.
@Clavie 3.26 pm
Poor benighted shills right enough: they just can’t see it in themselves can they? I took a look at Grousebeater’s latest jeremiad. As suspected it was the usual sophomoric Wolfie Smith stuff, but what really stood out was the fact that it attracted a small handful of responses…nine the last time I looked…all of which were furiously circle jerking to the same porn of their Putinista worldview.
The Academy Award for Missing Self Awareness goes to the last comment from “sadscot””
“It’s reassuring to read this and the comments below. Sadly, we appear to be out of step with many others posting elsewhere with all sorts of tactics being adopted to silence those who don’t want to cheerlead this war from the sidelines. How can so many people be so blind?”
Out of the mouths of babes right enough: out of step, out of time and out of excuses for being on the wrong side of history. I suppose at least we should be thankful for the small mercy that the sadscot realises he and his ideological mates are shouting in the hurricane.
Even the old dependable nativist Mr Baird makes his usual appearance, schlepping around trying to sell the “Scotland as colony” snake oil to the credulous indigenous Scots he and his mates are so obsessed with. I think it was Cesaire this time, but could have been any one of his other go to sources to prop up what passes for his argument as he tries to fluff his narrative on someone else’s blog.
Agent Ellis @ 2.35pm.
The Grayzone’s reporting on what’s going on in Ukraine has been very informative.
link to thegrayzone.com
As for your 2.44pm comment.
I may have missed it but I haven’t seen US Major General Cloutier being paraded around in public by the West, which to my mind is unusual if you wanted to knock the story on the head of his capture that is.
Mind you some other things have been kept quiet as well.
“Russian Spetsnaz unit in #Kherson captured 2 Russian-speaking British #SAS operatives on April 21, after a leak of their position from #Kiev. They were conducting recon for #London.”
“Even the old dependable nativist Mr Baird makes his usual appearance, schlepping around trying to sell the “Scotland as colony” snake oil to the credulous indigenous Scots he and his mates are so obsessed with.”
Agent Ellis @3.56pm.
Wow! Alf Baird is as far as I can gather well respected within the Scottish indy movement as are his thoughts and writings, however you and your establishment shills however are not.
@Putin’s Poodle 4.08 pm
More to consign to the “things that never happened” file then?
So let’s get this straight: first the dezinformatsiya was that the attack on the maternity hospital never happened and the women were actors, then when that blatant falsehood fell apart, the next level was “OK they were there and there WAS an attack, but it was those nasty Azov brigade nazis wot dun it, honest guvnor!”.
You and your Putinista agitprop mates at Grayzone are all over the place here mate: you just can’t keep track or keep up with all the lies, disinformation and attempted kompromat can you? The logical imbecility of all this conspiracy theorising can’t be sustained forever in the face of all the eye witness testimony, the failure to come up with any evidence other than official Russian sources and their paid or ideologically subservient assets in the west.
Vanishingly few ordinary people in the west buy the official RT/Putin line, or set any store by their fellow travellers in the west. We’ve always had them of course, during the Cold War and after. Most of us just treat you with the contempt and derision you deserve: sad to see some of the outer fringes of the independence movement have been captured by the fake news, but I suspect they’re the types easily confused if they find water in their wellies.
It’s no accident that there’s a huge overlap in those falling for the Putinista worldview and those pushing nativism, Covidiocy/Big Pharma conspiracy theorising, climate change denial, and the Great Rest/Soros/illuminati bullshit. Every mass movement has it’s leavening of cranks, fringe nutters and woo-woo truthers of course: the issue is how to ensure they are neutralised.
I favour pointing and laughing. It seems to work.
@Putin’s Poodle 4.22 pm
Alf Baird may know a thing or 2 about ferries, but his nativism and forays in to “Scotland as colony” conspiracy theorising are definitely fringe tastes in the movement and in the Scottish electorate as a whole.
There’s no evidence that either group share the nativists concerns or sympathise with their regressive narrative of depriving 20% of Scots of a say in any future indyref….not of course that a referendum is happening anytime soon of course.
However earnestly the nativists keep banging on about their hobby horse issue, it still has negligible support or traction in the movement. Perhaps that’s because unlike most of the adherents of such a deeply regressive policy, the vast majority of the movement are still progressive, civic nationalists and not adherents of “blut und boden” race based worldviews?
“Vanishingly few ordinary people in the west buy the official RT/Putin line,”
Agent Ellis.
Alex Salmond had a good show on RT, and he is the only person ever to have taken us to an indyref, but you being a Whitehall shill and paid propagandist already know this.
As for the West, there are more countries around the globe that haven’t sanctioned Russia or are supplying arms to Ukraine than there is.
Hands up everyone who reads Ellis’s posts?
@Putin’s Poodle 4.43 pm
Of course I know it: I even defended him at the time from the hard of thinking yoons – and indeed those in our own movement who wanted to tear Alex down – from those attacking him for appearing on RT. The basis at the time was quite simple: appearing on RT was no worse than appearing on say, Al-Jazeera. RT as Alex pointed out had no editorial control and he could and did criticise Russian policy since his programme was produced by an independent production company.
That’s a different thing to accepting that RT can and should be shut down as the agent of a hostile actor as a result of its invasion of Ukraine, war crimes and the justified sanctions against it. No right thinking person should support RT after the invasion of Ukraine, any more than anyone would have accepted supporting German Radio after Hitler invaded Poland. you of course are not a right thinking person as your MO in here amply demonstrates, so that lets you personally off the hook; no better can be expected of you.
Don’t let that fool you that more than a handful of other cranks support your morally vacuous worldview.
@Ruby 4:47pm
‘Vanishingly few’ I suspect.
“AS HE TRIES TO FLUFF HIS NARRATIVE ON SOMEONE ELSE’S BLOG ”
The balloon buffoon has no sense of irony Mr wind and piss
I’m beginning to wonder if “Republicofscotland” is just posting here in order to wind up Ellis!
He seems very easy to wind up. Press a button and his fingers start to go like the clappers & whoosh next thing you know he’s typed out a mile long post.
It’s a bit like the digital equivalent of the old kids game of ‘ring bell run fast’
You would ring the bell knowing the grumpy old man in the corner house would be at the door faster than the speed of light ranting and raving about ill brought up brats and how he has going to call he police blah! blah! blah! . These were the days before ipads & computer games.
@ Ruby at 4:47 pm
Not anymore. It basically just became the same stuff endlessly regurgitated. And tbh I’d question the expressed views of any individual when they can spend quite so much of their lives effectively posting the same thing over and over online, and not actually have a balance of other stuff and activities to do in their lives like normal folk have to do to make ends meet.
@Dan 5.16 pm
I suppose I could play golf, or video games…? I don’t see why this should be seen as worse or indeed better…? My life is full as can be and I’m lucky to be financially secure, employed (and unlike a lot of those in here employable) and have plenty of other things to involve my interest.
Perhaps I’m just more talented than some of the pieces of work in here Dan, eh?
There are quite a few folk in here essentially posting the same stuff over and over again. I don’t think I’m one of them, but then nobody is forced to read or interact with me or anyone else. I routinely ignore many of the posters in here (yes, James Che, I am looking at you…and you Gregor…) either because they have nothing interesting to say or because they’re posts are just too painfully hard to interact with.
I don’t know about you but my day has already been pretty full. Being able to do other things and also come in here to whack the Putinista moles, covidiots, nativists and skid marks on the independence movement infesting BTL comments is just a public service. I’ve never seen anything much from you worth interacting with or discussing: you appear mostly to whinge about what others do, which is also a common theme for many of the hard of thinking in here.
Happy to set the record straight!
And there it is. A virtually instantaneous screed of a response trying to troll and provoke a reaction. It’s almost bot like…
Been in this beautiful country for 40 years. Equivocal about independence but only because A) the SNP are sh*te at government, and b) I want to know what type of country we aspire to.
Genuine issues. Not trolling. Honest.
Where can I find the information to point 2)?
Strikes me as a bit mad if the SNP have been i/c for the last few years.
Pretty impressive typing speeds!
@Dan 5.46 pm
If you don’t want a response, then simply don’t interact. I’d never have posted in response to you if you hadn’t stuck your oar in with a comment which was simply a dig, not actually discussing any issues. It seems a bit odd to make such a point about it. If I’m online and see a post interacting with mine that I think merits a response, then I’ll respond. If not, I’ll ignore it.
That’s how these things work. Not sure why you seem unable to grasp that. Oftentimes I won’t see stuff until the next day, or hours after if I’m off filling my day with one of the many other things I like to do. Perhaps I’m just better at multi-tasking Dan? I get the impression half the folk trying to interact with me in here still move their lips when they read: they’re not exactly an advert for the education system that’s for sure.
As for being a bot, as I’ve frequently said, unlike virtually all of those having a go in here, I’m not the one being a snivelling anonymous coward hiding behind an anonymous avatar….but I’m the bot? Uh huh….
The “he’s a bot” thing probably made sense in your head. When you write it down….? Not so much. Most normal people would be able to see that before committing it to writing.
“No right thinking person should support RT after the invasion of Ukraine”
Agent Ellis.
What you really mean is no one should stray from the Western agenda when it comes Russia defending its self from Nato/US encroachment.
I don’t recall the BBC or Fox news or any other Western news outlet being banned when Nato/USA attacked Iraq, or Libya or Syria or Afghanistan nor do I recall any Western leader find their way into the dock at the Hague for war crimes committed in these illegal invasion, where they used depleted uranium shells, nor do I recall Nato countries and its non Nato allies come under any sanctions for the illegal invasions.
I know your narrative Agent Ellis, and that you must not stray from it.
“Alf Baird may know a thing or 2 about ferries, but his nativism and forays in to “Scotland as colony” conspiracy theorising are definitely fringe tastes in the movement and in the Scottish electorate as a whole.”
Agent Ellis.
Its not conspiracy theorising, Professor Baird has a wealth of knowledge on the matter far more than you or I, and the wider public in most part are unaware of Scotland’s situation.
Professor Baird often summarises Scotland predicament quickly for the unsure or unaware by posting “independence is decolonisation”, which is undeniable.
Why does ‘Andy Ellis’ wear a Max Headroom mask?
For those of you in the capital, you might be interested in this from the Cockburn Association in relation to the upcoming local elections:
“Our “asks” of those standing as councillors in the upcoming Local Authority Election”
link to cockburnassociation.org.uk
Breeks @ 3.13
Aye , when you hear people like S Salyers speak with that knowledgeable confidence/conviction it’s like a completely different world is opened-up in front of you ; one where Independence is there for the taking , if only we had the self-belief to use every tool at our disposal , rather than continually acquiescing to the * rules * laid down by our opponents ?
Ruby, Dan, Republic, etc.
Thursday’s elections been cancelled then?
Looking at today’s posts, I am starting to wonder.
An alternative explanation, which is that Alba are so far ahead that nobody has to bother drumming up any more support for them is also possible.
But maybes not plausible.
@Putin’s Poodle 6.04 pm
“Professor Baird often summarises Scotland predicament quickly for the unsure or unaware by posting “independence is decolonisation”, which is undeniable.”
He summarises wrongly as far as many are concerned. Independence may often be decolonisation in other contexts, but whether it applies in Scotland’s case is certainly both deniable and arguable. Saying it’s undeniable has about as much intellectual heft as writng *FACT* in capitals after your bald assertions.
If you and others so enamoured of the bogus “Scotland as colony” narrative weren’t so wedded to the chip on the shoulder victim mentality you’d be open to more nuanced approaches like that discussed by Malory Nye of Glasgow University as long ago as 2017, in his piece:
“How should we categorise the Scots: as Cowboys or Indians?”
He concludes with something the Scotland as colony enthusiasts so keen to claim victimhood should ponder – but sadly few will:
“But I would like to see an independent Scotland that thinks again about not only its historical relationship with England (and the British union), but also about the nuances and shade of its own particular history.
What can be learned from the excesses of Scotland’s role within empire? How do we as a nation remember not the high points, but also the unsavoury history? How do we recognise the role that exploitation of others has made Scotland the prosperous nation it is today? And how can we eradicate the remaining vestiges of rampant racism, colonialism, and exploitation that made up much of Scotland’s history?
In choosing to seek separation from its colonial history, Scotland also needs to ally itself with the ‘Indians’ — that is the global south — and look for constructive ways to partner in new, decolonised ways with those we once colonised.
In sum, Scotland cannot ignore or whitewash our past. We must instead learn from it, and show the world how independence can make us a globally facing partner to nations we once used as subjects.”
link to medium.com.
@Republicofscotland 6:04pm
I have had debates with Alf Baird on freeports in Scotland. We had a different perspective on this issue. But I respect his knowledge of maritime matters. He is a valuable contributer on maritime issues. Nevertheless I don’t agree with his Colonialism approach to Independence. Not that I don’t think that happened. It did and still does. But that argument in modern Scotland will not cut it. Look at the Sunday Times survey today. Public services are diminished since the SNP took office. And the people say so. Therein is the route ahead. Improve public services and the transparency of the Scottish Government ie get rid of Sturgeon.
Seems things aren’t going well for the orcs in Ukraine: Telegram account @Volyamedia reporting Valery Gerasimov, Russian army’s chief of staff, has been injured in a Ukrainian missile strike on the invading Russian forces near Izyum:
“The Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Federation Valery Gerasimov came under Ukrainian missile strike near Izyum.
Gerasimov was at the command post of a Russian group of troops near Izyum when a Ukrainian Point U missile struck nearby.
The strike injured about 10 people, mostly senior officers. According to our information, three people died. Among them, perhaps one general.
Gerasimov is now known for sure that he was wounded and evacuated to the rear. It has not yet been possible to find out how seriously the chief of the Russian General Staff was wounded.
Two sources among the senior officers of the Russian army told us about the shelling and the hit near the command post. One is at the scene, the other learned about the incident through an operational summary.
Gerasimov arrived near Izyum a few days ago. According to sources in the General Staff, he was sent to Ukraine by Putin after Gerasimov complained about Dvornikov (the group’s commander). Gerasimov accused Dvornikov of insufficient zeal and understanding of the plans transferred from the General Staff.”
George Ferguson @8.27pm.
George, what do you thinks been happening for the last three-hundred odd years, are you seriously going to tell me that the union has been one of equal partnership in that time?
Ask yourself why George, England has a population of around fifty-million, and Scotland has a population of around five-million.
From the Malt tax to the stealing of Scotland’s seas, our country has been treated as a colony by Westminster even now colonialism is rife in Scotland with Southerners parachuted into gatekeeping positions in Scotland to keep the status quo.
@Republicofscotland 9:38pm
I don’t disagree with you. My difference is the way ahead. I think looking back is not the answer. The answer is closer to home. Shredding documents, forgetting to record meetings unable to remember etc. The truth is always closer to home. It’s available to those that are interested.
Agent Ellis. @8.20pm.
In every colonial situation there are always co-opted citizens who make a good living out of if not enforcing then bolstering and complying with the colonisers, Scotland has been no different in that aspect over the centuries.
The entire set up at Holyrood was aimed at not letting one party (specifically the SNP become a majority government) not only that we have several Westminster branch office parties who answer to their Westminster leaders at Holyrood and ultimately they don’t have Scotland’s best interests at heart.
Our own government in Scotland has (supposedly one of independence) has an unspoken agreement with the foreign colonial government at Westminster, this situation tends to happen in a colonial setup such as in Scotland, the SNP are quite content to be the big fish in the little pond so to speak, as long as Westminster doesn’t interfere too much.
Scotland has MI5 agents in its COPFS, and political parties, civil service, and probably in other gatekeeping positions in Scotland and as you well know one of MI5’s remits is to monitor and if possible sabotage any real attempts at Scottish independence.
George Ferguson @9.52pm.
Fair enough George we all know Sturgeon has betrayed us she is happy with the status quo, she’s in office until 2026, unless of course something serious is pinned on her, with her pet lord advocate and the COPFS, and their foot soldiers Police Scotland right behind her its unlikely she’ll be ousted before 2026.
Lets not forget the foreign media which she partially funds with Scottish taxpayers money (£3 million) might berate her now and then in their news rags, but its all a game of deception George, they too have got her back, and likes of Agent Ellis who wants to give anyone and their dog who sets foot in Scotland an indy vote only hampers our cause.
Agent Ellis @8.35pm.
Proof that the Great Satan (US) has been planning to goad russia into conflict.
its been discovered that on the official U.S. Congress website, the date of the submission of Lend Lease to Congress was seen as 1/19/22.
Russia didn’t intervene to stop the Nazi’s from further genocide in the Donbass until late February.
It won’t be long before the Nazi’s collapse completely in East Ukraine.
“Today’s newest report is that 1000 AFU soldiers are now surrounded and trapped in Oskil, pushed against the bank of the Donetsk river without any vehicles to cross it. This could soon bring another 1000 POWs as well as the 2000 that will soon come from Azovstal.
Ukraine is losing 300-400 men per day to KIA and POW alone.”
Though this guy seems to be a big hit with his fellow Ukrainians.
“In Hostomel, near Kiev, a Ukrainian video influencer decided to go out to one of the wrecked tanks, and found himself some remains of a ‘dead Russian soldier’, which he decided to cook and eat to great internet acclaim in his country.
(18+) for anyone with the stomach to watch:
link to bitchute.com
link to sputniknews.com
Now whether this is a staged ‘stunt’ or not, the fact of the matter is on social media he was said to have gotten greatly positive feedback from many Ukrainians who urged others to go out and cannibalize dead Russian soldiers. This is just an insightful look into Ukrainian society and their inculcated, absolute inhuman hatred of Russians.
And of course there’s the unfortunate fact that experts have determined without a shadow of a doubt that the tank from which he foraged his unholy delicacy was in fact a Ukrainian T-64 (and not a Russian T-72), a tank Russia does not use (nor was DPR/LPR anywhere near Hostomel at any time).”
#Republicofscotland 10:05pm
She is not in office to 2026. The question is. Has the damage been done? I think so. 250 million of taxpayers money to fight off a court Covid ruling in England. I don’t think so. Until Scottish people support the Covid victims and their families then nothing will change. Lady Poole extend the statue of limitations. The Scottish Government are delaying again.
FAO Andy Ellis
Thursday’s elections been cancelled then?
Looking at today’s posts, I am starting to wonder.
An alternative explanation, which is that Alba are so far ahead that nobody has to bother drumming up any more support for them is also possible.
But maybes not plausible.
@George Ferguson 9.52 pm
You are of course correct, we should be looking forward not back. The obsession with 300 year old treaties and the wrongs of the past, twinned with the fallacious “Scotland as colony” narrative are cop outs for our collective failure to take our independence rather than ask for. Few other countries on earth that have achieved their independence since WW2 could boast the advantages that Scotland has, yet when presented with an open goal in 2014 when all we had to do collectively was put an “X” on a ballot paper, we bottled it.
No amount of the usual Scottish chip on your shoulder “we wuz robbed” or “wah! We’re a puir wee colonised country” or “it wus they furriners and incomers wot done it” can balance the plain fact that that the independence movement failed to make a convincing case and couldn’t contrive to persuade a majority of Scots to support their own self determination, despite the fact that > 80% of the population are native born and a significant proportion of New Scots also support independence.
A movement that can’t build a convincing pro independence majority given brexit, the character of the Tory government, and the manifest failure of the British nationalist project to deliver the societal outcomes most Scots would like to see is clearly failing in some important aspects. Given the lack of movement in the polls over the past 7 years, it looks like we either have to wait on external crises to bring about change, or come up with a better prospectus on independence to persuade “soft No” voters to switch, or accept that the younger generation may have to bring it about when enough of the current older unionist generation is no longer around to vote.
Somehow I doubt that obsessively picking over the scabs of the Treaties of Union, or how many New Scots we should deprive of a vote, or what novel constitutional hoops we can jump through to avoid a contested referendum or plebiscitary elections, will deliver the majority we need. We need convincing answers on the questions that were left hanging in 2014 and a much more “in your face” rejoinder to Project Fear which points out the failings of the British nationalist project.
It’s obvious now the SNP aren’t up to that task: the big issue is how we construct a movement that is up to it.
Interview with Eva Bartlett.
link to youtube.com
Re. Ferries
Could the “missing” paperwork / contract debacle be due to the dates being problematic for certain parties?
I heard that Fergusons started building prior to the drawings being approved for construction, with structural flaws developing at an early stage.
re. “…There are quite a few folk in here essentially posting the same stuff over and over again. I don’t think I’m one of them… anti vaccine woo woo or just plain spamming like Gregor; …I am looking at you… and you Gregor…”:
…Repeat (sigh):
“A person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.”
“One who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance.”
link to merriam-webster.com