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Wings Over Scotland

A minor confusion

Posted on June 03, 2020 by

Oh no, someone’s let Ian Murray say words again.

There’s only one small problem with that complaint.

Ian Murray, as the strapline on the piece notes, is “Scotland’s only Labour MP”. Which is to say, he’s an MP. Not an MSP. He was elected to the UK Parliament, where he’s “an opposition politician” to the Tory UK government. The Scottish Government, which sits in Edinburgh without the benefit of Mr Murray’s presence, is absolutely none of his professional business.

Anyone, of course, is entitled to an opinion about anything they like. And it certainly seems to be the case that the Scottish Government has some fairly serious questions to answer about its handling of the coronavirus pandemic. But so (and much more so) does the UK government – and that’s the one Ian Murray is supposed to, and is paid to, hold to account, rather than waging a psychotically obsessive war against the party running a Parliament 400 miles away.

A journalist and former Labour adviser asked this week how the party could “revitalise itself north of the border” (and got over 1300 replies, not all of which were just “LOL”).

And while frankly that’s rather like asking how polio could make a comeback, we noted that a number of people offered Hazarika the same advice that this site would give: line 1, paragraph 1 of The Great Scottish Labour Revival Plan would be “For the love of God, superglue Ian Murray’s mouth shut”.

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    463 to “A minor confusion”

    1. Den Cairns says:

      That last paragraph was LOL Central Rev ??

    2. Muscleguy says:

      I’m a wee bit conflicted, isn’t he a recruiting sergeant for Yes? And besides, our best, ice cold revenge will be making him redundant when we vote Yes, assuming Nicola ever lets us do that. Come on Nicola let us vote, for Ian’s sake, let us put the poor man out of his misery. There might be a Tory constituency in England who will want him.

    3. Iain Hamilton says:

      Certainly not making excuses for him but SNP bad Scotland crap is heard from all the non SNP MPs. Looking at you ref.

    4. lothianlad says:

      Murray is a red tory who’s support is in Morningside and the likes. His anti SNP stance got him elected not his grey matter, of which there seems to me a very sparse amount.

      nothing more than a mealy mouthed unionist boot licker. Maybe he gets his advice from gorgeous George.

    5. Sharny Dubs says:

      Ian who?

      Another busy body we could really do without.

    6. Wulls says:

      As a former Labour petty member and trade union official I have met and interacted with lots of intelligent and principled socialists down the years.
      Murray isn’t one of them.

    7. Clapper57 says:

      Labour…are Tories in all but name
      Opposition to Tories ?.. nope… way too lame
      God forbid they should feel any sense of shame
      Being Tories little helpers that’s what they became

      Mini Murray mint forgets that he’s a WM MP
      Meant to oppose the Tories not just the SNPeeeeeeeeeeeee
      He is sooooo a shadow Tory that’s plain for all to see
      Now that’s a truth upon which I’m sure we all can agree

      Union uber alles is all they really really care about
      When it should be fighting Tories to try and get them out
      Too obsessed with ermine and expenses no doubt
      Cause that is what it’s really really really all about

      Federalism, Federalism is apparently their solution
      Is that their only response in the way of retribution
      So was the ‘problem’ to be solved the constitution?
      Surely not when we have this great Union(uber alles) institution

      Red Tories no longer flying the flag that is red
      No ….socialism as a concept is, for them, truly dead
      It’s also a concept that obviously fills them with dread
      So they chose capitalism as a much better concept instead

      New Labour old Labour same Labour as before
      They think we’re all daft and don’t know the score
      Democracy….not for the Scots…the ones they ignore
      Well once we were fooled but now we’re fooled no more

    8. labour and Murray have nothing to offer Scotland because the SNP have implemented the things for the Scottish people that labour failed to do so all labour can do is look for faults that in most cases do no exist I say to labour you have been found out and exposed at last goodbye forever I hope

    9. katherine hamilton says:

      Probably worth another pile on to the wee gnaff, with this enclosed. Don’t do Twitter myself but those of you who do.
      Level of abuse not seen since 2014? Come on, you’re not even trying.

      Make it worse!

    10. robertknight says:

      Last of the tartan Labour donkeys in the Westminster sanctuary.


    11. Bob Mack says:

      Ah, Murray. He of the famous “My office has been stickered” complaint. I thought it was a euphemism for arson at the time considering the media attention.

      However it seems he has recovered and his only problem seems to be remembering which parliament he should hold to account.

      He continues apace on his descent to the bottom of the barrel.

    12. Frank Gillougley says:

      An arrogant tosser.
      Ther. That’s fair comment.

    13. Liz g says:

      Didn’t give a shit about Scotland if it ment working with a party leader he didn’t like if I’m remembering right.
      Quite happy to leaves us to the Tories then.
      So there’s nae surprise there that behaving professionally and taking care of the business he’s paid to do is beyond him…..what a balloon…

    14. Auld Rock says:

      Perhaps some contributors on here would care to engage their brains, do you seriously think we could conduct a full-blown Indy campaign like 2013/14 with all this Covid-19 disruption going-on all around us?

    15. Republicofscotland says:

      It’s patiently obvious that Murray is a unionist to his core and takes any and every opportunity to point out any failings or what at first appear as failings of a Scottish government that’s meant to bring independence to Scotland or at least that’s why many voted for them.

      Labour whilst we are held in this forced union with a foreign country cannot be allowed to flourish, for the Labour branch office in Scotland is interested in two things only, its own survival and the union, and it will via Murray or an other acolyte cry out that only Labour can save Scotland and the union.

      Murray is a prime example of what ails Scotland, a Scottish MP sitting in a foreign country’s parliament and attacking not that foreign governments failings or actions but his own countries misgivings across the border.

      This to me is one of a million examples as to why the SNP must pull their MPs out of a foreign country’s parliament, it makes no sense to have them there. For they cannot make a difference, and cannot outvote the foreign government, but just by being their they give credence to Murray’s outburst in a way and to the rules of the foreign parliaments stacked game.

      Bring them back to Scotland and give the SNP MPs jobs focusing on independence at Holyrood. The rest Labour/Libdems/Tories can be absorbed by their unionist branch offices in Scotland, or whatever I simply don’t care.

    16. robertknight says:

      The tartan Donkey has to be seen to be on the SNP’s case – he relies on all those Morningside Tories for his votes after all.

      Barely a genuine Labour voter in his constituency, just a Yoon alliance to keep out the SNP.

      Can’t pick up an Embra Evening Snooze without his ba’ shaped heed appearing in it somewhere.

    17. Muscleguy says:

      @Auld Rock
      Well each of us can chap one door each day. It’s a start.

    18. Sinky says:

      Ian Murray is a jumped up unionist councillor who got lucky when Nigel Griffiths had to resign his MP seat after a liaison with a prostitute in his Westminster office.

      He is low life as evidenced by his treatment of Neil Hay the SNP candidate in 2015 as outlined here:

      Aided by Dr Scott Arthur and others his supporters trashed Neil Hay in the local press then Ian Murray used a two page spread in the Daily Mail to besmirch Neil Hay just to make sure he got Tory voters.

      At Westminster and in the press he spends more time attacking the SNP rather taking the Tory UK government to task.

    19. Peter A Bell says:

      “If the baseline of the referendum was 100, I think after it dropped quite considerably,” he added.

      This guy goes out of his way to prove what a fucking idiot he is. What the fuck is the point of creating a baseline then never referring to it again? It’s obvious Murray doesn’t even know what a baseline is. How the hell does a moron like this get to be an MP?

    20. winifred mccartney says:

      If labour were ever to revive it has to depend on getting rid of the many people in Scotland who like Ian Murray are strangers to the truth, who will lie on a daily basis, who will say one thing to one group of people and the opposite to others (note Jackie B and Clydebank town hall and then parliament) who will use frightening language to pensionsers (claiming if they voted yes they would lose their pensions) and then worst of all we will look back at their record in Scotland and the money that was sent back to WM by Labour because Scotland did not need any new houses, bridges, roads or anything else – Labour failed Scotland just like they have failed the UK and all the people who put their faith in them and were abysmally let down by them with their expenses their house flipping and their abandonment of any socialist principals they ever had.

      If only I could hear him hold the WM Government to account – but let us not forget he is just a red tory.

    21. Sinky says:

      All is fair in love and war but Ian Murray and his media friends went over the score when attacking Neil Hay

    22. osakisushi says:

      I did reply to the plea for help for labour in scotland. I feel the party could have greatest effect, if they install a competent leader.
      Either get Dugdale back, or use Jackie Baillie. Or even Ian Murray.
      Any one of the 3 would ensure Labour in Scotland were doing something for the good of the country.

    23. Vivian O'Blivion says:

      Ian Murray is a careerist whose only concern is Ian Murray. He has the survival instinct of a cornered sewer rat.
      Holding this administration to account over its handling of the pandemic is of course the task Richard Leonard is unequal to. Why does Leonard sound as if he’s reading from a script (for the first time) when he isn’t? His faux dramatic delivery is phoney as bird shite in a cuckoo clock.

    24. msean says:

      Seen lots of attacks by Labour on SNP,but strangely,there doesn’t seem to be any attacks by Labour on Tories in Scotland,or vice versa. They aren’t going to be even second in Scotland if they don’t attack the Tories.

      Wouldn’t it be interesting if we had opposition questions,where the oppostition leaders had to answer questions on their opposition policies from all other MSPs

      After all,isn’t oppostion a requirement in a democracy?

    25. Morgatron says:

      I may have to dust down and re energise the old twitter handle and get back to dishing lardy boy some good old July 2014 abuse. It appears the waste of space is missing it! Perhaps the trolling moans are the only thing that gets him column inches now. Poor wee fat fellow.

    26. Sarah says:

      O/T a bit early but here seems to be the chance to get things moving towards a restored independent Scotland – the Digital Scottish Covenant has a post today on Wee Ginger Dug’s blog.

      Sign up and spread the word.

    27. Astonished says:

      o/t. As this is a Westminster petition please sign and spread far and wide. Let’s at least get cummings dishonesty discussed in westmonster.

    28. Bob Mack says:

      Petition signed.

    29. robertknight says:

      Why on earth would Murray attack the Tories? They’re the source of his constituency vote, FGS! You don’t bite the hand that feeds!

    30. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I did reply to the plea for help for labour in scotland. I feel the party could have greatest effect, if they install a competent leader.
      Either get Dugdale back, or use Jackie Baillie. Or even Ian Murray.”

      I trust you were being ironic.

    31. Sarah says:

      @ Astonished: the petition refers to “Government officials”. I think Cummings would escape [again] as he is a political adviser, not an official, I think.

      Meanwhile please look at the Digital Scottish Convention site and sign up [see Wee Ginger Dug’s blog].

    32. liz says:

      Wee soul, so he is. God preserve us from whinging SLAB politicians

    33. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Ian Murray, I would opine appears to be a nob.

      That having been said he is useful in as much as he grates on folk reminding people just how shocking Labour are.

      Can you imagine the horror of contemplating a return of Labour rule, especially now as they are returning to good old Tory Blairism.

    34. callmedave says:

      Jings! A second consecutive page on the Murray Mint!

      The waily wrecker splashes out in his defence as usual.

      However our one and lonely ‘Labour’ MP will be a difficult barnacle to dislodge as there is a unionist pact there who will vote him in regardless. 🙁


      Scotland fuels UK’s first ever coal-free electricity month yet must pay for the privilege

    35. Republicofscotland says:

      “Either get Dugdale back, or use Jackie Baillie. Or even Ian Murray.
      Any one of the 3 would ensure Labour in Scotland were doing something for the good of the country.”

      You’re taking the piss, those three unionists couldn’t give a monkeys about Scots or Scotland.

      Yeah you’re a windup merchant for sure.

    36. Dod says:

      I can only assume his ill fitting Union Jack two piece is begging to “chafe” in this weather given his girny outburst.

    37. Capella says:

      To answer Ayesha Hazareka’s question; I suppose that if Labour were to become a genuinely socialist party with a manifesto the whole party endorsed then they might win back many Scottish votes.

      Renationalise strategic infrastructure – water, power, telecomms inc post, and transport (air, sea, rail and road); bring the health service and education back into national ownership; build social housing; introduce UBI; the Green New Deal; dump the identity politics and cancel nuclear power and Trident; abolish the House of Lords; introduce a progressive tax system and replace the poll tax with a land value tax; democratise parliament and promote Scottish independence – for a start.

      But they won’t.

    38. callmedave says:

      Jings! wee auntie wie a kilt’s web site not reporting the daily death toll figure today…wonder why?

      Had to go to the SGov health website for it. 🙁

      No big auntie BBC web site figs for England or the UK either.

      N. Ireland……today…….08…….Total…..534…BBC
      England………today…no fig…….Total… fig

    39. Republicofscotland says:


      Now here’s an interesting point, in an independent Scotland would Labour still serve Westminster first and foremost. Just why would they suddenly change to having Scots interests at heart after we leave the union, it’s not as if they’d fall much further in the polls if they didn’t.

    40. Capella says:

      In an independent Scotland we would vote for the government we want and we’d get the government we vote for. Good enough for me, although I would only vote for a progressive left of centre programme. Most other Scottish people would do the same if history is any guide.

    41. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Lord Haw Haw could at least claim in his defence, that he was not born in the country who’s government he was seeking to undermine from afar.

      I wonder what excuse Ian Murray will come up with?

    42. Frazerio says:

      Hahaha, what can Labour do to improve in Scotland??? The short answer is disband.
      Firstly, and this is probably insurmountable off the bat, be honest. Be optimistic, set targets, no problem with that, but from Jim ‘Im goin to wipe out the SNP, oops we lost 40 MP’s’ Murphy to Ian ‘the Morningside Socialist’ Murray, via Kezia ‘not of this planet’ Dugdale, their complete disassociation with truth and fact has been astonishing.
      On Murphy’s appointment, pro-indy types were ecstatic. The other side seemed to think it was fear or pretend joy or something. The only thing the indy side got wrong was that what followed wasn’t just a car crash, it was and still is an ongoing motorway pile up.
      I’d say the majority of voters in Scotland still are what used to be known as ‘labour’. Leftish of centre, for democracy, fairness and equality. Mid-90’s on, Labour have been tory-lite. Blair had to get the middle England vote, because, as the Rev has so simply displayed umpteen times, the non-English vote very seldom counts at UK level (2 or 3 times in 20 odd elections since the 1920’s iirc). When Blair’s Labour moved right, they simply abandoned their Scottish core.
      Since 2015 (56 SNP MP’s out of 59) it couldnt be clearer that if all Scottish MP’s were of the same mind, they are politically meaningless at a UK level (even if they were all red or all blue).
      Post 2007/2011/2014/2015, the Scottish political landscape and battle lines have simply been completely redrawn. There is a new political landscape. Its not left v right, its unionist v independence, subservience v self governance. Labour are still fighting using the old maps and weapons. Like generals ordering men to run towards machine guns in WW1, they persist with hopeless obsolete tactics. Trade unions, the Daily Record & BBC Scotland, their obsolete weapons, are floundering badly (tryin to be polite). The SNP, AUOB, Wings, WGD, Scotgoespop etc are scooping up the modern voter and terraforming the new political landscape. If Labour want to do anything in Scotland, they need to first and foremost acknowledge what year it is.
      If, 15 years ago I was asked to design the perfect humiliation for Scottish Labour, I’d put McConnell, Darling & Brown in ermine (2 out of 3 ain’t bad), and give them 1 legacy MP in either Morningside or Dumfries to epitomise their journey from red Labour to red tory (preferably Morningside coz it looks much less significant on the geographical political map).
      So, if, and its maybe the biggest ‘if’ in history, if Scottish Labour could face up to the new truth, the only thing they can do to improve their standing (fairly & honestly) in Scotland, is to disband. We only need unionist or indy parties now. The ironically named Liberal Democrats polling (flatlining) at 2% with old Scottish Labour plummetting towards them are clear expressions of that fact. If you are pro-union above all else, join the unionist party (tories). If you are ‘old Scottish Labour’ (lefty, home rule etc), you probably need to side with the best centre left option in Scotland (currently the SNP) and campaign for an English Labour/SNP coalition in the English parli, sorry, at Westminster.
      To continue as ‘Scottish’ Labour (I know, I know), means you have to continue to be dishonest. Labour cannot as one Labour party say one thing to Scotland and the opposite to England. Scottish Labour at paid level are simply legacy troughers and at voter level, essentially just the last ones waiting for the penny to drop that Scotland has changed.
      Apologies this was a bit longer than I intended.

    43. Robert Louis says:

      Iain Murray is a Tory, he himself just isn’t sure whether he is a red Tory or a Blue Tory.

      The people of Morningside who vote for him don’t really care, so long as he is a Tory, and opposes the restoration of democracy to Scotland, and the removal of colonial English rule.

    44. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’d suggest Mr. Murray doesn’t properly know the meaning of trolling yet. 🙂


      Oi, Murry, if you had an ounce of principles, you’d know when to keep your gob shut so as not to highlight your profound ignorance of democracy. Just saying. 😉

      Democratic Civility
      The History and Cross-Cultural Possibility of a Modern Political Ideal

    45. Breeks says:

      Scottish MP trolled with fake pictures eh? Awe diddums…

      Try being a pro-Indy ex-First Minister, and you get trolled with fake r a p e allegations ostensibly backed by the State, that seek to put you in jail and end your political career, then just for good measure, fire a blunderbuss of Contempt of Court allegations in the general direction of any journalist who dared to report the actual truth behind the conspiracy.

      Fake pictures eh? Oh the humanity!

    46. Sarah says:

      @ Frazerio: don’t apologise, it was worth it!

    47. Scozzie says:

      So Hazarika (whoever you are) some advice since you ask – Lbaour is dead in Scotland – they are cockroaches. Good riddance. That is all!

    48. Astonished says:

      Sarah @ 2.56pm

      Thanks but I am sure we all know whom this is aimed at. If this petition reaches over a hundred thousand the tory waverers may get it into their thick skulls that this ain’t going away.

      Also please tell your captain in the 77th brigade – “nice try at deflection – but obvious – way too obvious”. (This may become a theme).

    49. callmedave says:

      BBC UK says 179 deaths today but the Dept Health just announced 349.


    50. Scozzie says:

      We need a ‘WE SEE YOU’ movement.
      If you haven’t already put your name to the open letter in support of Craig Murray / Mark Hirst – please do so.

      Freedom of speech, to report the truth and equality in law is essential for us to progress as an independent nation. This is important and it matters to all of us.

    51. Robert Louis says:

      Frazenio at 401pm,

      Exactly. The problem with British Labour’s Scottish branch office, is they are tied to policies made in England, for England. Until that changes, their fortunes up here, never will change.

      If only, Labour had fought for Scotland in the independence referendum, their fortunes may have been different. Indeed, it may well have been the case that LABOUR and NOT the SNP could have formed the first government of an independent Scotland.

      But sadly, for Iain Murray and his nearly forgotten Scottish branch office of the British Labour party, they decided to side with the English Tories. Instead of fighting for Scotland, they fought hand in hand with the Tories to maintain English colonial rule of Scotland.

      For that, Labour of any hue, will never be forgiven. Red Tories? Blue Tories? They were all the same when it came to Scotland’s independence.

    52. CameronB Brodie says:

      Mr. Murray is a British nationalist, so that means he supports Euro-scepticism, which is England’s new psudeo-religion. Especially among non-practicing ‘Anglicans’ who express a strong (white) English identity and oppose immigration. This is what their cultural prejudice will remove Scotland from. Full text.

      Thanks for putting up a fight. 🙁


      Principle 2 NON-DISCRIMINATION
      Principle 3 DEMOCRACY
      Principle 4 LAWMAKING
      Principle 5 JUSTICE SYSTEM
      Principle 11 EDUCATION
      Principle 15 RETURN TO NORMALITY

    53. Dan says:

      So Bawheid Murray is up for some cross jurisdiction antics to hold those with limited devolved power in Holyrood to account for what he perceives as doing bad shiz.
      Well presumably Scotched / Scorched (delete as appropriate) Labour in Scotland, The GMB, and by association with both, current SLS head arse Reekin Lionfart will be in for some flack due their involvement in the Glasgow City Council Equal Pay debacle.

    54. Sarah says:

      @ Astonished at 4.42: Eh? I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick and the wrong person!! I’ve signed the petition but DC will oil his way out, I’m sure.

    55. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Peter A Bell ‘How the hell does a moron like this get to be an MP?’

      Well, they start with – not so much a gene pool, but more of a puddle – then having removed all and any possible candidates with qualities such as integrity, intelligence, ability, the remaining group of candidates (whose only remaining qualities are the ability to stab in the front as well as the back) repeat the party mantra loudly, over and over.

      Then they look around their party peer group, see people of their own (very low) calibre, listen to their nonsense and from that shallow pool can pronounce, with heartfelt sincerity that Scotland is shite, and its people are not genetically capable of running their own county.

      Oh and an ability to get their snouts in the trough is also an essential part of the make up.

      Nice to see you back posting Peter.

    56. Bill Hume. says:

      Robert Louis said,

      ” Red Tories? Blue Tories? They were all the same when it came to Scotland’s independence.”

      Actually Robert, they are all the same when it comes to anything.

    57. stuart mctavish says:

      What Breeks said

      Which, given the pending court case, begs the question why Ian Blackford did not use the opportunity to raise the issue today, preferably by linking it to the appalling treatment hitherto reserved for Julain Assange.

    58. robbo says:

      Robert Louis @ 5.03pm

      Lol Labour running the country aye
      Gid wan Rob.

      Labour couldnae run a tuck shop. Look at the state of them in Scot Parli

    59. Daisy Walker says:

      I wonder how secure Mr Murray is feeling right now with his Red Morningside vote base.

      How many of them are employed in Edinburgh’s Finance industry, its Universities and its Medical profession – all of which are likely to take a great big thump come a No Deal Brexit.

      Better Together with Boris, or should that be England First

      Its getting to the point where I can see Scotland getting its independence by default in a GE, (if the SNP dare) just out of shear inevitability and time running out.

    60. Astonished says:

      Sorry Sarah, I honestly thought you were trying to stop folk signing. Apologies.

      Just because I’m paranoid doesn’t mean their not out there.

      Please sign :

    61. Sensibledave says:

      CBB 5.06

      You, once again, spout you bigotry based upon where a person is born.

      You wrote “ Murray is a British nationalist, so that means he supports Euro-scepticism, which is England’s new psudeo-religion. Especially among non-practicing ‘Anglicans’ who express a strong (white) English identity and oppose immigration. This is what their cultural prejudice will remove Scotland from.

      … you are a disgrace Cammy. Spouting pseudo intellectual claptrap does not hide your innate driver … bigotry.

      Why don’t you just come out and say it straight? Constantly making sweeping stereotypical statements about the character and characteristics of people of another country makes one thing clear …. you are a r*****!

    62. Sarah says:

      Alert: at 2.25 and 2.56 I drew attention to the Digital Scottish Convention that I read about on Wee Ginger Dug today. Being on a trusted blog I suggested people sign their document.

      However other trusted commenters from btl here [Welsh Sion and Yesindyref2] have commented adversely on WGD about the amount of personal data that is asked for by the Digital people.

      So I withdraw my urgings and apologise.

    63. CameronB Brodie says:

      Don’t get your knickers in a twist deary, I’m only reporting on research funded by the BBC. So I suggest you find and a way of accommodating a respect for democracy in your identity politics. TA. 😉

      Btw, are you comfortable that Brexitanian constitutionalism displays a distinctly Hungarian character?

      The ‘Partisan Constitution’ and the corrosion
      of European constitutional culture

      The paper examines the legal developments associated with new Hungarian Constitution, a text that, by entrenching the normative convictions and institutional solutions favoured by a contingent political majority, gives rise to a distinct institutional setting: the ‘partisan constitution’.

      The analysis unfolds in three stages. Firstly, the new Hungarian Constitution is contrasted with the idea of pluralist constitution traditionally inspiring national European constitutions. Secondly, by investigating the reactions of European institutions to the approval and implementation of the partisan constitution, the difficulties in affirming EU values post enlargement are discussed.

      Finally, the Hungarian Constitution is assessed also in the light of the prevailing contemporary EU legal culture. It is argued that the Hungarian Constitution reproduces in amplified and grotesque form a more profound and pervasive
      phenomenon: the corrosion of European constitutional culture. Thus, rather than looking at it as a backward product and a contingent malaise, we should study and criticise it as the most emblematical example of a broader trend: the decline of the idea of pluralist constitution.

      * Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Law, University of Trento
      Via Verdi,

    64. Sarah says:

      @ Astonished at 5.48: 🙂

    65. Capella says:

      Good article by George Kerevan in The National “Why I would use the f word when it comes to Dominic Cummings”

    66. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The Scottish Government must be doing well. Didn’t watch FMQs today, but, the BBC Shortbread News is bigging-up Jackass Carlot’s questions, plus those of Reinhart Leotard.

      AS a rule of thumb, when BBC Shortbread does this, ramping-up their SNP Baaaddd rhetoric – it’s a sure sign, the Scottish Government is doing something well.

    67. MaggieC says:

      I see that Ayesha Hazarika is on Bbc Debate Night tonight , I wonder if that’s why she asked that question on her twitter account ? .

    68. Clapper57 says:

      @ Sarah @ 6.00pm & @ 6.20pm

      Hi Sarah how you doing ?

      Keep smiling….many thanks for info re WGD.

      Have a nice evening

    69. Joan Edington says:

      I’ve just had a horrible thought. When we get independence, they’ll probably put this buffoon at the top of the Labour List. EEEEK!

    70. robbo says:

      I’m assuming that social distancing and all that in London is now not required?
      And has been kicked into long grass!

    71. CameronB Brodie says:

      Cummings is a keen eugenicist and see Brexit as Brexitania’s emancipation from EU environmental law. So he will lack any concern that his Brexit denies Scots access to the precautionary principle, public health ethics, and global health law. Cummings is certainly an illiberal English nationalist, IMHO. 🙁

      Beyond evidence – to ethics: a decision-making framework for health promotion, public health and health improvement

    72. callmedave says:

      @Socrates MacSporran

      I did see FMQ’s. Here’s what I wrote at the time.

      3 June, 2020 at 1:36 pm
      Bit of a ‘sledging’ in Holyrood for the FM there on all things related to care homes as the two main opposition leaders pile in.

      Turning the other cheek and setting out the SGov case is not cutting any ice with them that have 20-20 vision now but maybe striking some resonance with the general public…maybe! ?

      Meanwhile Boris, under similar pressure, squeals to Keir Starmer that his questions are not helping in the general interest against the common foe, ‘the virus’….kinda thing!

    73. Sarah says:

      @ Clapper57: I’m feeling a bit fraught having leapt before looking about the Digital Convention thing! I am so desperate for progress that I’m clutching at a hint of a straw, never mind an actual straw.

      However I do do the occasional thing right – sent Chris’s cartoon to our local newssheet and they will print it this week.

      I hope you’ve had a good day – I’ll raise a glass to you later!

    74. Clapper57 says:

      @Socrates MacSporran @ 6.40pm

      Yes they are ALL like a dug with a bone…winnae let it go…

      Robert Kilgour on too…again…me thinks his day will come like all of the other ones who OWN Care homes….currently they have Teflon status as far as churnalists are concerned…most likely because they are helping to promote an agenda..nudge nudge wink wink….

      BTW apparently conservative politicians have stakes in private care homes…quelle surprise….

      Mr Kilgour once stood as a Tory candidate for Hamilton South in GE in 1997 (came 3rd to George Robertson..SNP were second) and currently donates to the Tory party (not mentioned by BBC obvs…as might give impression Robert may be a tad biased against you know who)…or rather the viewers may question his political impartiality…as well as his own personal responsibility as owner of Care Homes (plural).

      Meanwhile Piers Morgan STILL highlighting things that t’other media should be addressing re UK govt’s handling of this particular hell hole situation we are all in….especially figures they once disclosed now mysteriously (Lol) no longer being given….speaks volumes….will the REAL figures for NHS England EVER come out ?

      Don’t get mad they say …get even….may eventually…if the political will eventually reaches the end of the road…as we all have…Lol

    75. Dogbiscuit says:

      Ian Murray has no practical function. The picture of of uncle Tammery painted by this smear of a man is pathetic. He is destined to go down in history as the Ian Murray of Scottish politics

    76. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT Thanks to ITN news I now know that deaths in Scottish Care Homes now exceeds deaths in Scottish Hospitals – not a squeak about English figures, Welsh or Northern Irish , just a bald announcement.

    77. Dogbiscuit says:

      These days I am frightened and wary of so called ‘left of centre progressives’. The riots in America are being carried out by ‘progressives’. The hate crime legislation in Scotland is being forced on us by ‘progressives’ Progressive is fast becoming a euphemism for chaos, disorder, murder and the attempt to overthrow a President.Left? Are you krupki Tovarichi ?

    78. Clapper57 says:

      @ Sarah @ 7.37pm

      Don’t fret…we have all done that…me especially…shrugs shoulders…..and your intentions were good which is obvious to anyone who reads your input on here….anyway it was on WGD who is a trusted site who many of us admire so you did NOTHING wrong….so no biggie OK..up to the individual if they did or did not want to do it…..we are all grown ups after all…

      Sure we will all eventually get beyond straw clutching..we have all also done that like loads of times….Lol

      Keep smiling

      Will raise a glass to you too.

      Take care

      @ Maggie C @ 7.03pm

      Hope you had a nice day…..will raise a glass to you too…and Liz G ….us girls must stick together….mind you some of the guys on here are pretty good too…’some’ being the operative word…Lol

      Take care

    79. Dogbiscuit says:

      Does Nicola Sturgeon send crocodile tears of support to the family of the black policeman murdered by a mob who then looted a shop of televisions.The policeman died carrying out his duty to the public.his killers got a free TV. Sturgeon is the ultimate virtue signaller like many on here. She supports the thugs who burn their own and each other’s towns down.They are crazy.

    80. Bob Mack says:

      Contribution from Donald Trump Junior I see.

    81. Bob Mack says:

      The black population of America,including those who identify as black is 14% of The total American population, yet each year the same percentage almost of white people and black people are shot by the police.

      The figures show enormous disparity in the way police handle events.

    82. CameronB Brodie says:

      “The riots in America are being carried out by ‘progressives’”

      Why make claims you have no possible way of proving? All you are doing is showing us your political bias.

      Activists, State Surveillance and Political Policing

    83. Gfaetheblock says:

      Peter a bell

      I thought you had retired or given up or something. What happened?

      Murray clearly knows what a baseline is, and in that sentence and the following one he clearly explains how post 2014 abuse moved down from the base, but has now risen back above it. You know what a baseline is?

      Definition of baseline
      1 : a line serving as a basis

    84. Muscleguy says:

      I just signed this, it might even work and it is worth a try

    85. Joe says:

      Just tried to reply to dogbiscuit about the thousands of minors who have been sexually abused, tortured and murdered by gangs of certain religious persuasion but its requiring moderation. Not a peep from the left regarding these girls. Thats why I fucking despise the modern left. Disgusting righteous hypocrites to the core

    86. Iain More says:

      Somebody give him dummy tit. What a bairn.

    87. Joe says:

      Black protestors are complaining that bus loads of white Antifa members (hard left) are being brought into their communities and wrecking the places in the name if fighting racism

      Only a progressive could find this acceptable.

    88. robbo says:

      All 4 officers now charged .Three with aiding + abetting 2nd degree murder, one with actual 2nd degree murder, you know the one that had his knee on a man’s neck for 8 mins 46 seconds.

      You ok Joe and Dug .Or is that another leftie outrage?

      Pair or eegit.

    89. Ottomanboi says:

      Hitler, Stalin, Nazism and Communism as exemplars of the ‘progressive’.
      You might also consider Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Indira Gandhi, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, Gamal Abdul Nasser….all of whom left much damage, some irreparable, in their authoritarian wake.
      In the US the Afro-American, Native American and Latino populations are mainly at the lower end of the social scale. It could be argued that the prosecution of the concept of human ‘progress’ put them there.
      World government is a progressive notion too. Microsoft, Apple, Google and the rest go ape for one world, one world talking American.

    90. Pete says:

      Bob Mack
      Has it ever occurred to you that their might be more black criminals than white?
      I know it goes against your liberal views but hey, why bother about facts?

    91. robertknight says:

      Socrates @ 6;40

      “AS a rule of thumb, when BBC Shortbread does this, ramping-up their SNP Baaaddd rhetoric – it’s a sure sign, the Scottish Government is doing something well.”

      Well, they must be able to see something, cause I sure as hell cant! (Unless screwing up our chances of Indy are classed by Aunty as “doing something well”, in which case Aunty should be following Sun Tzu in respect of never interrupting your enemy when they’re making a mistake).

    92. Stoker says:

      Ian Murray &/or his Dirty Redcoat allies said:

      ‘A tirade of abuse not seen since the 2014 independence campaign?’

      Yes, we all seen it, the vast majority of which was from Unionists. You, on the other hand were subjected to the heinous crime of having a *sticker* slapped on your office door. A crime you deemed so serious to be worth wasting tax-payers money on by getting the polis oot.

      Meanwhile, your ill-tempered misogynistic Labour Party colleagues were on such Britnat propaganda platforms as The BBC encouraging all sorts of nutters to “bayonet the wounded”. And you run telling tales to master?

      Away and get a shave yah manky bastard.

    93. Sinky says:

      Watch Channel 4 Dispatches on now or one plus one at 10 pm to
      find out how Boris Johnson and Co ignored medical advice in early days of coronavirus and caused thousands of unnecessary deaths, thousands of businesses to go burst with at least two million unemployed thus trashing the economy.

    94. Iain More says:

      Stoker says:
      3 June, 2020 at 9:35 pm

      Ian Murray &/or his Dirty Redcoat allies said:

      ‘A tirade of abuse not seen since the 2014 independence campaign?’

      Yes, we all seen it, the vast majority of which was from Unionists. You, on the other hand were subjected to the heinous crime of having a *sticker* slapped on your office door. A crime you deemed so serious to be worth wasting tax-payers money on by getting the polis oot.

      Meanwhile, your ill-tempered misogynistic Labour Party colleagues were on such Britnat propaganda platforms as The BBC encouraging all sorts of nutters to “bayonet the wounded”. And you run telling tales to master?

      Away and get a shave yah manky bastard.


      If there was a like button for a post this would get a like.

      They still think we are too poor, too stupid, too filthy, too drugged and too genetically inferior to be Independent.

    95. Colin Alexander says:

      The Lord Advocate comes from Dumfriesshire, a hotbed of Freemasonry.
      I have no idea if he was ever one though.

      Is Angus MacDonald SNP MSP still a Freemason? His register of interests does not say but, he was in 2013, according to the Freemasons.

      I’m not making a judgment on Freemasonry, just curious.

      People can make their own minds up about Freemasonry.

    96. Bob Mack says:


      Your an ar#e. A dumb one at that.

    97. Joe says:

      For those sticking to the official coronavirus narrative. Here some extra rules. Enjoy your senseless dystopia:

    98. Joe says:

      Sexual checklist:
      1 – condom on
      2 – mask firmly fitted – no gaps mind
      3 – latex gloves – never can be too careful
      4 – goggles optional
      5 – wipe down with alcohol or bleach afterwards
      Happy living

    99. robbo says:

      I up for that Joe if it stops the likes of you ,the dug and millennium from reproducing. That would help us all out!


    100. robbo says:

      That’s if you can get a girl of course.You’ve blew your chances way liz g and cappella cos their on the bad list.

    101. Joe says:


      Well, masturbation is on the risk list too so it looks like your particular wee party might take a dent also

    102. Beaker says:

      @Sinky says:
      3 June, 2020 at 9:38 pm
      “Watch Channel 4 Dispatches”

      Just watched it. Scary but not unexpected.

      Now the Business Secretary Alok Sharma is ill and self-isolating. He wasn’t looking well in parliament anyway. Hopefully he will recover. But wasn’t that a great idea getting all the MPs back into the chamber. Now they are awaiting the test results and if positive, then that’s fucked Westminster again. And if that happens JRM needs to resign.

    103. Joe says:

      Something interesting for the guys who get it – if Trump has or will designate Antifa as domestic terrorists (which has been mentioned) that means people like Soros, Obama and a number of high ranking democrats and businesses folk will be considered as aiding and abetting terrorism. So that will be both the US and Russia with arrest warrants for the lefts sugar daddy.

    104. robbo says:

      Seems you never do your homework.

      Trump jr has already been pulled over coals for this fakery. Remember seeing myself early yesterday on news.

    105. CameronB Brodie says:

      I really do come across as being a rather illiberal individual, and quite twisted with it.

      Psychological Features of Extreme Political Ideologies

      In this article, we examine psychological features of extreme political ideologies. In what ways are political left- and right-wing extremists similar to one another and different from moderates? We propose and review four interrelated propositions that explain adherence to extreme political ideologies from a psychological perspective.

      We argue that (a) psychological distress stimulates adopting an extreme ideological outlook; (b) extreme ideologies are characterized by a relatively simplistic, black-and-white perception of the social world; [c] because of such mental simplicity, political extremists are overconfident in their judgments; and (d) political extremists are less tolerant of different groups and opinions than political moderates. In closing, we discuss how these psychological features of political extremists increase the likelihood of conflict among groups in society.

      political extremism, ideology, rigidity of the right, overconfidence, intolerance

    106. CameronB Brodie says:

      Oops…You really come across…. 🙂

    107. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brexit represents a far-right coup and must be resisted with utmost prejudice. How else did it get Treasury approval? Oops, I forgot, the Treasury are proud of their partisans politics and practice.

      The first rule in law and public policy is DO NO HARM! Brexit on it’s own was a disaster waiting to happen, but in light of Covid, it is simply an expression of rigid political extremism. Brexit killed democracy in Britain, we must not let it do the same to Scotland.

      Cognitive Inflexibility Predicts Extremist Attitudes

    108. HandandShrimp says:

      Murray complains incessantly. One wee yes sticker on his window and you would think Edinburgh experienced Kristallnacht. He uses the language of a persecution complex (which he may or may not actually have) as a propaganda tool.

      One thing is certain, no one would ever mistake him for a sunbeam and he wouldn’t be in my top 100 to be stuck in a lift with.

    109. Ruglonian says:

      H&S @12.47am – Nicely put!

      Haven’t managed on here for a few days, but I see that the lack of the recent high quality debate has allowed for certain folk to lower the tone again – not good enough!!

      I propose this recent tweet by AUOB as a new talking point.

      “Jun 2
      3 weeks today on Tues 23rd June (anniversary of Battle of Bannockburn) we will host a Press conference outside the Scottish Parliament to outline our position and announce our plans as we move forwards out of Lockdown. The Independence campaign is getting Revved up. #AUOB”

      My personal opinion of AUOB is not great, and never has been.
      I have direct experience with the outfit through my various activism avenues, and I know many people who have been directly involved within AUOB over the years.

      We all know the problems that were around in the early days, and I must commend the genuine grassroots activists who then stepped up to lend their credibility to the organisation – I understand that many of these hard workers have recently left due to ‘infighting’ – but I don’t believe that any single part of the movement is placed to declare that “The independence campaign is getting revved up.”

      I suspect that this tweet is an attempt to get folk to quietly fall in line again behind an outfit that was straining in it’s intentions when it was at it’s prime, but is now purposeless, hollowed out, and merely a vehicle for the few egos left (who have been responsible for all the shortcomings from the start!)

      As usual, I hope to be proved wrong in my pessimism, or at least entertained/provoked by a healthy discussion 🙂

    110. Sarah says:

      @ Ruglonian: I agree the standard has slipped again and we need to talk about what to do to drive forward to regain independence. Did we come up with a Plan the other day – or are we still too uncertain as to the best way to go about it?

      As for AUOB I know that there were issues – Ronnie Anderson mentioned them – but as only someone who attended the Edinburgh and Inverness marches in 2018 and 2019, I was impressed by the manner in which they were conducted – I felt we were safe in event of accident or illness, and there was no confusion or overcrowding or aggression.

      If not AUOB, who?

    111. Stoker says:

      Good Morning Mr Murray, this should start your day off nicely:

    112. Effijy says:

      This petition regarding a public vote of No Confidence
      In Boris Johnson amazes me in that it’s just short of 225,000

      Do you think he is doing a good job?

    113. Keith fae Leith says:


      Whilst I appreciate the effort & applaud the sentiment. You would need a battalion of burly bloke, some kind of hypnosis & a gallon of good rum to get me to sign a petition from Change,38 degrees or any other data harvesting profit, seeking venture.

      Not only are you giving away your personal data which gets sold on to Cambridge Analytica types, but the UK Gov can simply ignore them, the only petitions they are legally bound to respond to are those on the UK.GOv website.

    114. Joe says:

      Vaccines: this study from 2017 shows the presence of heavy metal nano particles in modern vaccines. Needless to say its not healthy–and-nanocontamination.html

    115. callmedave says:

      Quite a verbal sword fight there on radio shortbread between BBC Gary and Carlaw both determined to reach their objectives.

      Gary probing Carlaw’s change of mind over Cummings and Carlaw equally striving to work round to the care home situation at the end of each answer. 🙂

      The thrust and parry went on until Gary finally in the last minute allowed the exasperated Tory to get his poisonous two-pence worth in and a draw duly declared. 🙂

      Good old auntie wie a kilt!

    116. Stoker says:

      @ Keith fae Leith on 4 June, 2020 at 7:53 am:

      Effijy is very aware of what’s what because Effijy has been told numerous times but Effijy obviously doesn’t give a rats arse about helping to entrap WOS readers into parting with personal details. Just like the other so-called indy supporters who repeatedly post direct links to BUM rags that helped to destroy our 2014IndyRef.

      Folk such as Effijy should be damn-well ashamed of themselves. Either that or they truly are too thick to understand. It has to be one or the other. Then they use the most pathetic excuses going.

      And just for the record, for all of you unaware, those private data harvesting companies have many many “petitions” with a lot more signatures than the poxy amount exciting Effijy. Both those companies have “petitions” with over a million names on them and guess what, they’ve achieved absolutely heehaw. Well, that’s not strictly true, they did con a lot of folk into giving them private details.

      Be warned folks, be careful who & what you trust. Keith fae Leith’s post is factually accurate.

    117. Golfnut says:

      Here’s the British tories in Scotland demanding that the elderly in hospital are discharged to Care Homes, March 10th 2020.

    118. MaggieC says:

      Link to interesting article in the Scotsman from Kenny MacAskill “ Alex Salmond affair starting to look like an abuse of power “

    119. British bank HSBC executive signed a petition supporting China’s move to impose security legislation on Hong Kong, putting the bank squarely on the side of Beijing in the fight over the future of the territory.

    120. Dan says:

      @ Ruglonian & Sarah

      AUOB may have their issues but what organisation doesn’t. The bottom line is to achieve anything significant it often takes folk with drive and determination to push things forward. That sort of motivated personality type and the methods they use to achieve the aim of the organisation will often rub some folk up the wrong way.
      You can create a clear road much quicker with a bulldozer than you can pissballing around trying to organise 100k folk to pick up individual bits of the debris blocking the way, especially when all those 100k individuals only want to pick up their bit of debris when and in a style that suits themselves.

      1 min vid of Herding Cats

      We can waste our time over-analysing the finer detail of some of the individuals and their modus, or just accept that they did manage (even if they may have hijacked other’s efforts at times) to have a run of numerous marches all across Scotland to highlight the Indy cause.
      Importantly some of those marches managed to have turnouts large enough that they are significant in relation to activism terms of reaching a tipping points for a concept to progress.
      We just need a democratic route to focus that activism on now…

      The AUOB “issues” are similar in ways to the ones we see in “discussions” of a new Pro-Indy Party standing on the regional lists.
      The chat on the subject over the weekend was interesting, not because it finished with a slick and easily defined way to progress the concept, rather that it clearly highlighted the problems of different types of folk attempting to build something together.
      My input was all shite and completely irrelevant apparently, so just waiting on the proper plan being produced in a timely manner by people that know best…

    121. Sarah says:

      @ Stoker at 06.22: your link made a good start to the day, for which many thanks! Murray and the vile Stickers – what a story Conan Doyle would have made of it.

      The btl comments were quality, too – a breath of fresh air compared to nowadays. “The thick plottens” per Major Bloodnok – excellent!

    122. Sarah says:

      @ Keith frae Leith and Stoker re signing non-government site petitions: Thank you for the warning that they are or could be used for data harvesting purposes. I am getting an education this morning!

      @ Dan at 9.32: quality communicating this morning, thank you. Not cheerful but quality! I’d be happy to read your contribution to the Plan again, if you would be so kind as to repeat yourself, as the site looks clear of interference at the moment.

    123. callmedave says:

      Henry McLeish proffering advice to the SGov this morning that the FM should pop over to Brussels on a direct flight avoiding London altogether and negotiate a Brexit extension for Scotland only.

      But is careful to remind us that it is only a ‘temporary extension’ …and er!… we don’t actually have the power as it is really not devolved…and maybe WM won’t like it much…and well it sounded a good idea in the bath yesterday. 🙁

      I say go for it just for the hell of it! 🙂

    124. Oneliner says:

      The wheels came off Labour’s bogey when the unions voted for the wrong Miliband.

      The wheels came off the branch office bogey when Henry McLeish lost control of his rent book.

      Never have the successive leadership incumbents, nor their apologists, convinced us that Labour is truly ‘for’ Scotland. To them, it is more acceptable to endure the privation meted out by Tory England than allow Scotland’s independence. For this to be remotely justifiable(?), there needs to be evidence of strong government in waiting. Patently not, and patently never the case.

      Murray is an unskilled window dresser, covering up for the dummies.

    125. Ottomanboi says:

      “To see England great is my highest aspiration, and to lead in contributing to that greatness is my only real ambition”
      The pukka barra sahab who gave the fuzzy wuzzies what for.
      The very model of a British Unionist imperialist, and Anglo-Irish to boot.
      The Edinburgh South mp is a rather mediocre example of the type, albeit, like his party, sharing the same ambition.

    126. Ottomanboi says:

      Callmedave 10:04
      “we don’t actually have the power as it is really not devolved…”
      Of course you might just take the power and let London go hang.
      Great leaders take risks.

    127. callmedave says:


      I say go for it just for the hell of it! ?

    128. Mike d says:

      If the Tories had half a chance in Scotland, the morningside ones wouldn’t be giving this thing their votes.

    129. Republicofscotland says:

      Ex-FM Henry McLeish calling on Sturgeon to go to Brussels and plead for an extension for Scotland as latest figures show Scotland could lose up to £3 billion in the event in a no deal.

      Though Sturgeon doesn’t have the powers to supercede Johnson as Westminster retains that power onnthe EU deal, let’s see if Sturgeon meekly complies with Westminster, or if she actually does something to halt Scotland from slipping down the post Brexit deal slope into a deep recession.

      Of course her favourite shouty acolyte Blackford will yell and bellow in the HoC Scotland won’t stand for this tired old rhetoric on the matter.

    130. McDuff says:

      Stoker 6.22
      I agree, good article from Kenny MacAskill.

    131. Republicofscotland says:

      So Dominic Cummings has cost lives with his trip as one in five adults stopped following the lockdown rules after Cummings broke them.

    132. cirsium says:

      @MaggieC, 9.24am

      Thanks for posting the link to Kenny Macaskill’s article. I found the last line “it’s looking like an abuse of power” a bit lame. It’s looking like an abuse of power! (Sorry Rev, had to use the exclamation mark). That’s because it is an abuse of power.

    133. Clapper57 says:

      Murray was very vocal on his endorsement of a four nation approach (as was Carlaw) however having watched CH4 Dispatches last night which exposed the ineptitude shown by the Tories and how they resisted taking action…. as the economy, for them, prevailed over health.

      Strikes me that Murray may desist now on this as he must see his Union uber alles approach with this virus would afford the Tory govt the overall dominance in any four nation approach….and with their, the Tory govt., inaction early on, allowing mass gatherings in March e.g. Liverpool game and Cheltenham and now they and they alone deviating from the message of “Stay at Home” and recently loosening the lockdown rules in England….well apparently had they, the Tory govt., acted sooner more lives would have been saved….not that Ian was focusing on #ToryBad as his obsession is dominated with another govt in whose parliament he is NOT a member of….mind you bouncy Leonard is useless….but still.

      Ruth , Ian Murray, Jackson C and ALL unionists have been obsessing about how Care Home deaths in Scotland worst in world…but one cannot help but think that their collective comeuppance will occur when TRUE figures for care Homes in England are exposed….of course Ian if we are making comparisons with the rest of the world…there is a distinctive advantage other countries have over Scotland….i.e. they are not chained to the UK which is controlled by the Tory government…a fact obvious even to an idiot.

      Also Ian’s other obsession, the February Nike conference, attended by 70 people which pales into insignificance when one considers the numbers that attended the Liverpool game and Cheltenham in March (also re Liverpool game it allowed 3000 Spanish fans from Madrid to attend game and this when Madrid in lockdown and they had already stopped fans attendance at football games in Madrid due to the virus)…. AND more than 250,000 people attended Cheltenham over four days…wow….so BOTH of these events were AFTER the Nike conference AND attendance far exceeded the numbers of Nike conference…but Ian and others reluctant to address that SHOCKING fact.

      Let’s allow them ALL to knock themselves out with their facts and figures as it does appear to be a political competition for them as opposed to a health issue….and we do know how good Ian is at attacking the Scottish government while congratulating Boris on his handling of NHS England’s response to all of this….but I guess Ian must stay on message for his Tory constituents if he wants to try and survive politically…

      Their day of reckoning will come…when truth comes out somewhere….for sure….but I am not sure about any inquiry after all of this being published…. as are we not STILL awaiting The Russia report being published…..does Ian ‘supposed opposition MP to Tory Govt’ Murray have an opinion on that ?….probably not…wrong government for Ian… see….his focus is, as per, 100% elsewhere.

    134. robbo says:

      Seems there’s a debate on what this means? Sneaky gits anyhow.

      coronavirus app or enabler ,whatever!

      – phones do ma box ,hardly use it.

    135. Fireproofjim says:

      Maggie C @9.24
      Thanks for the link to the Kenny MacAskill article.
      First time I’ve seen such a clear condemnation of the Salmond persecution and the contempt of court cases in a mainstream paper. All should read.

    136. Millennium says:

      More english companies going down the drain.

      Fuckin brilliant news

    137. Millennium says:

      This virus will be a great leveller.

      It will shut up those bastards from South of our border who have told us all our lives that we could never survive without english money.

      This Virus will destroy the english economy and add into the mix Brexit, england will no longer ever be able to turn to Scots and tell us we couldn’t survive without their money,,, because these arrogant racist bastards won’t have any money.

      england will become one of the poorest of all the so called advanced nations on earth.

      An independent Scotland within the EU will go from strength to strength.

      If someone had their boot on your neck for the majority of your life,,, would you give a shit if that bastard was diagnosed with terminal cancer,,,like fuck we would

      Lets all hope the death of england comes sooner rather than later,,,hence my absolute joy at seeing english companies going to the wall.

    138. Dogbiscuit says:

      Millennium. You’re a fool.

    139. Joe says:

      RE: Scottish Independence

      Ive been thinking of a comment to make on the most important subject for this site in order to not be always OT. So here goes.

      I have been taking glances at Scottish Indy social media lately and I noticed there seems to be a lot of foaming-at-the-mouth outrage about the social and political situation in the United States, its elected leaders and the mainstream media presentation of them.

      More outrage on that than any justifiable negative reaction at the attempt to strip Scottish people of their rights to free speech and the literal abolishing of the female sex by the elected governing party of Scotland, the actions of the courts and the governing parties failure to make 1 single significant step towards achieving Scotland’s independence – even if just symbolically.

      This is the biggest problem facing the country and the quest for autonomy.

      How can the country be autonomous when the people who claim to want this act literally like unthinking drones?

      Sorry. But that’s it. There needs to be a ground-up awakening to certain realities otherwise its literally pissing into the wind. No amount of meetings, strategies, discussions, campaigns, marches or leafleting will help otherwise.

      You might not like Trump but he is not the one taking very hostile steps against your liberties and rights while failing to deliver on what you want most. The party most of you voted for is doing that.

      Until that is accepted, well, frankly you are fucked.

      There. That’s my contribution to the indy debate.

    140. Millennium says:


      Are you an english business owner???

    141. Dogbiscuit says:

      The rest of the world is waking up and moving on while the Scots are kept enthralled and imprisoned by a crook First Minister. German scientists have produced a report that states the effects of covid were exaggerated. Anyone still clinging to Government line on this is up to no good. What chance does Scotland have when it is held down by its own people?

    142. Dogbiscuit says:

      Joe. A fair summation. The riots and subsequent murder rate in 30 US cities is unjustified.Three gunshots were looted in Austin Texas 3nights ago and now several dozen assault rifles are in thr hands of rioters.

    143. Millennium says:

      Dog biscuit

      Are you a little engerlander???

    144. Millennium says:

      Dog biscuit

      Are you too ashamed to admit you are an englander???

    145. Dogbiscuit says:

      Millennium .Do you think Scotland will escape the effects of economic depression with virus ‘lockdown’ destroying our economy? Just stick to commando comics silly cunt.

    146. Dogbiscuit says:

      Gun shops not shots.

    147. CameronB Brodie says:

      I might be prepared to swallow the virtue signaling going on btl on WOS, and in corporate politics and media in general, if I didn’t know a bit about political identities and stuff. 😉

      Profile of political party activists
      A psycho-political profile of moderates and left-wing and right-wing extremists

    148. Dogbiscuit says:

      Millennium you little arse wanker.

    149. Millennium says:

      Over to watch Nicola’s Daily Beefing.

      And right away she runs down Scotland regarding our wet weather.

      Can someone tell Sturgeon that we have enough pricks from South of our border running down Scotland on a daily basis without her adding to it.

      No doubt it was meant as a condescending joke for her english masters.

    150. Millennium says:


      I know Scotland won’t escape the effects of the Virus

      But a small nation, rich in natural resources will escape far far quicker than the lumbering skint giant that is engerland

    151. Millennium says:

      Dog biscuit

      So you are a little engerlander???

      Now we know

    152. CameronB Brodie says:

      I take it everyone has been developing their appreciation of phenomenology? Mkay. So you should be able to spot the the difference between paranoid delusion and a genuine resistance to oppression. 😉

      Understanding delusions

      Delusion has always been a central topic for psychiatric research with regard to etiology, pathogenesis, diagnosis, treatment, and forensic relevance. The various theories and explanations for delusion formation are reviewed. The etiology, classification and management of delusions are briefly discussed. Recent advances in the field are reviewed.

      Delusions, Etiology, Psychopathology, Phenomenology

    153. Millennium says:

      Dog biscuit

      Are you a “Soft Southerner” it a big tough “Northerner” ???

    154. Dogbiscuit says:

      Robbo. What is Nicola Sturgeons plan for Independence? Same question to Peter A Bell.

    155. jfngw says:

      Noticed this Chris Cairns tweet:

      I wonder if you get a self flagellation device free with the subscription.

      Best comment was ‘Scots have developed herd immunity to the UK MSM’.

    156. Dogbiscuit says:

      Millennium. What age are you? You come across as somewhat immature.

    157. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m glad the discussion has taken the turn it has, as it allows me to highlight a serious pathological maladjustment afflicting Scotland’s cultural psychology. We must deal with this if we hope to achieve constitutional justice and any potential for a sustainable culture and society. The source of this maladjustment is, of course, British nationalism and Scotland’s lack of political AGENCY.

      Dealing With Persecutory Delusions
      Paranoia, Persecution, and False Beliefs

    158. Millennium says:

      I keep asking this question without any answer,,

      Why are Scotland, Wales and N Ireland labelled as “Devolved Nations” and the mighty english are not???

      What happened to this “Union of Equals” ?

      It gives the english this feeling of being somehow different and somehow superior.

    159. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob Mack. Go back in history and see what Malcolm X really thought of white Liberals. As a white man I am in full agreement with Malcolm x’s suspicions of ‘Democrats’ Right now the Democrats are cranking the violence up for political effect.No covid worries there now . The Democrats are paying the bail of men who have been filmed assaulting mostly white people. When you take a hardline political position you tend not to read the other sides news so you are being programmed by the same mainstream news organisations that cheated us out of our country in 2014. There is no excuse for murderous riots and looting.Oh and American soldiers have been filmed shooting female civilian in the window of her own home. The woman was shot by rubber bullets .It looks like the people are about to find out what soldiers actually do for a living.

    160. Liz g says:

      Dog Biscuit & Millennium
      I know not and care less which one of you want to be Punch or which Judy …..but you’re both getting too personal for an open forum….the internet’s a big place….take it out side cherub’s and let the grown up talk….

    161. Millennium says:

      Dog biscuit

      You come across as being a bitter little englander

      Am I correct???

    162. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      The site “bean” butts in

    163. Dogbiscuit says:

      Liz g. If only you had something sensible to say or something that wasn’t…ahh yesterday’s news.Something relevant and interesting.Do you think you could manage that?

    164. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      I have told you already,,, don’t annoy me hen.

      And what do you do,,, annoy me


    165. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      Stop playing to the gallery???

      You are making an arse of yourself

    166. CameronB Brodie says:

      You need to take better care of your health. 😉


      Hostility has long been associated with cardiovascular problems, and this seems to be true of IED, which carries an increased risk of for hypertension, stroke, and heart disease.

    167. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      Of all the things you could have posted about,,, you had to post something about me


    168. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      Just because you fell out with your burd,, don’t take it out on me.

    169. Dogbiscuit says:

      Liz is just jealous because she can’t think up brilliant insults. She probably spills her Special Brew when she reads my shit

    170. CameronB Brodie says:

      As does Scotland.

      Persecutory delusions and the conditioned avoidance
      paradigm: Towards an integration of the psychology and
      biology of paranoia

    171. Dogbiscuit says:

      I’m only joking Liz g. I’m not very keen on Millenniums outright hostility to English people partly because I am married to a beautiful English woman.

    172. Dogbiscuit says:

      Cameron keep psychology simple. Read a Bible.

    173. Dogbiscuit says:

      CBB The Bible is after all the Book of the human condition. That from a non believer in organised religion.

    174. Millennium says:

      The site loony (CamB) advising people on how to take care of their health

      Lol,,,best laugh of the day

    175. Mist001 says:

      @ Dogbiscuit

      “There is no excuse for murderous riots and looting.”

      Actually, there is EVERY excuse for murderous riots and looting. Peaceful protest simply does not work, as some people are now waking up to in the quest for Scottish independence.

      I’m emphatically not equating the murder of a black man with Scottish independence, I’m pointing out the futility of peaceful protest.

    176. Dogbiscuit says:

      Millennium. Because you’re a stand out idiot?

    177. Dogbiscuit says:

      Mist001 They’re burning down black owned businesses.Their actions lay groundwork for police state. There will be a rise in 2nd Ammendment shootings as citizens are abandoned by State Governments. Far too many Scots take Antigua viewpoint.And just who exactly are Antifa?

    178. CameronB Brodie says:

      Crack on. 😉

      Narrating hostility, challenging hostile narratives

    179. liz says:

      OK for once I agree with Sarah Smith that NS is enjoying being in the spotlight re Covid.

      Today she’s thinking about making masks compulsory.
      I believe this virus situation is allowing her to become more controlling by the day.

      Masks in themselves are not a bad idea but all measures should be based on the number of cases, which are still falling in Scotland.

    180. Bob Mack says:

      It’s like keeping three rowdy kids quiet. Or alternately three anti independence supporters.

      Were you guys at George Sq on 19th Sept shouting abuse.

      You have the aroma of” Lodge” about you.

    181. O.T. The day that the black man was killed in America 2 Palestinians were shot dead in Israel But no mention of it on the media or L.BC who is Jewish owned radio station .So do Palestinian life’s matter ??? With every nuclear weapon in the uk based in Scotland making it the main target in a war does Scots life’s matter ??? I say all life’s matter and I wonder if a black police officer had kliied a white man would there have been riots by whites and would some black people have joined them ??? And when Prince Charles left England to come to Scotland with a party of70 did he think life’s mattered ??? No the only life’s that seem to matter is the ones the media deem to report in their phoney news

    182. CameronB Brodie says:

      My critique of what appears to be happening btl on WOS. 🙂

      DJ Cummerbund – Bird Parade

    183. Joe says:

      ‘Actually, there is EVERY excuse for murderous riots and looting.’

      Because black neighbourhoods and small businesses getting destroyed by thugs and antifa is going to show those wall street types and establishment. Right? Im sure they are just shitting their silken boxers while at their poolside or country club.

    184. Bob Mack says:

      @Blai Paterson,

      There were protests in Israel by Jewish citizens appalled at the action of the police. Maybe it wasn’t broadcast here but there you go.

      There are many Jews who find the Government of their country culpable.

    185. Joe says:

      @Blair Patterson

      Warning. You are dangerously close to challenging the emotion fueled illogical narrative and therefore the integrity of the mainstream bubble.

    186. Millennium says:

      Bob Mack

      I was in George sq on 19th Sept 2014

      Me and a few hundred other furious Indy supporters

      Got into a boxing match with blue nose supporters from N Ireland in Buchanan St

      Nearly got jailed

      Where the fuvk were you that night

      Probably watching Coronation St

      Don’t get me started on how many fights I have got into with blue nose Yoons

    187. Millennium says:

      Bob Mack

      You come across as an old pacifist snob.

    188. CameronB Brodie says:

      If Scotland wants to enjoy the benefits of democracy, we need to deal with a cultural pathology of “learned helplessness”, which affects Scotland in a similar manner to how “battered wife syndrome” affects abused spouses. We need to do this before Westminster completes Brexit.

      Compassionate Mind Training for People with High Shame and
      Self-Criticism: Overview and Pilot Study of a Group Therapy Approach

    189. Bob Mack says:

      @Millenium @Joe,

      Good try,but I think your card is marked.I have become a pacifist. I lived in Glasgow many years with guys like you.

      They are mostly dead through violence and here I am. Alive and kicking. You can’t rile me buddy. You dont have the jntellect.

      No, I think at least two of you are filling your time on here because you can’t get to your spiritua! home at Ibrox.

    190. Bob Mack says:

      Oh I was at George Sq with my son and funnily enough the only furious people we saw were the ones outside the police cordon.

      I saw no furious Indy supporters. We were a bit stifled if anything.

      You are describing where you were. It’s called Transference.I

      Gotcha !!

    191. Liz g says:

      Blair Patterson @ 2.09
      Weeelll…. While the examples you cite are true…and no one should be more aware than the Scots how the Media is “choosy” about what the topic of the day “shall” be.
      The tipping point for change should be grasped from where ever it comes…and that this might be it …. and that it’s trickling here to more than just observations…seems to be spooking the Media too,I won’t nit pick with it right now.

      There’s a detectable cooking down of the reporting from the U.S.
      Time will tell if this particular outrage is indeed the catalyst for change…but I do hope so!!
      Why not this…Why not now….Because all those other injustices could be addressed too if this takes root…and I don’t care which nationally or ethnicity ( not sayin you do ) produces the the move forward…..but something needs too!

    192. Millennium says:

      Bob Mack

      What a fuckin wanker

      An old pacifist who,,,like Sturgeon,,will accept Devolution over Independence.

      Pricks like you don’t deserve to see an independent Scotland

      You prefer sitting in your living room doing your Scotsman crossword than actually out fighting for our Independence

      And who tags along at the back of a big Indy rally

      Then you tell everybody that you were out “doing your bit’

      Fuck off,,, the Indy Movement needs people with balls,,, something you have never had Boaby

    193. CameronB Brodie says:

      Brexit is simply authoritarian English nationalism, and contemporary British constitutionalism now a vehicle for totalitarianism. Is there really going to be no opportunity for Scots to voice their objection to this oppression of their moral character, and that of Scotland?

      Is the Scottish government going to simply roll over to the eugenics of English Torydum?

      The Power Threat Meaning Framework:
      Towards the identification of patterns in emotional distress,
      unusual experiences and troubled or troubling behaviour,
      as an alternative to functional psychiatric diagnosis

    194. Stoker says:

      Sarah wrote on 4 June, 2020 at 9:40 am:

      “Stoker at 06.22: your link made a good start to the day, for which many thanks! Murray and the vile Stickers – what a story Conan Doyle would have made of it. The btl comments were quality, too – a breath of fresh air compared to nowadays. “The thick plottens” per Major Bloodnok – excellent!”

      The archives as you’ll know holds thousands of top-class articles that make for some great bedtime reading & learning. Also saves you all the bother, time and money of buying books. A huge library at your fingertips. 🙂

    195. Millennium says:

      Bob Mack

      If you never saw any furious Indy supporters at George sq on the night after the Indy ref defeat,,then you were not there.

      Stop trying to justify your twisted thoughts ya fuckin halfwit

    196. Meindevon says:

      Dear God. What is happening to this site?

      It’s just become a place where half a dozen or so people hurl foul mouthed abuse at each other and the rest of it is taken up with someone (with good intentions I’m sure) who thinks we’re all about to sit a degree paper in psychology.

      Some need to go and remind themselves of the rules of this site. Many folk seem to have forgotten them and there’s not many. Pretty sure there’s one about being mindful of undecided voters reading it and another about not being personally abusive. Not a lot of that happening at the moment. If it is coming from the 77th Brigade then they must be laughing their socks off.

      Yes there is still some great posts and links but they take some finding these days. Talking of links I’m so missing Nana. Hope she’s ok?

      Sorry, rant over.

    197. Bob Mack says:

      The Indy movement does need people like me to know people like you. You are Orange Lodge. I’d put money on it.

      You reek of it.

      In my opinion of course.

    198. Bob Mack says:

      Sorry folks but these people will keep on the disruption whether you post or not. Either the Rev ships them out of we ignore I suppose. However,I’m due an apology to other posters for trying to take them on. Mea Culpa.

      Last word. I see I hit a nerve with Millenium. Tough.

    199. Effijy says:

      Effijy isn’t ashamed of anything he has posted here.
      I have had the odd post sent for moderation but I’m
      Fine with that as I respect the Rev’s judgement.

      Absolutely no one is obliged to sign any petition that I may post!

      If I’ve posted it, I have signed it.

      I’m absolutely my details will be known to the 77th, MI5, and every other
      Clandestine body established to keep UK citizens and the truth suppressed.

      I’m not hiding. I stand against Westminster and it’s inherent corruption.

      I stand for the freedom of my country and our right to flourish with Scots controlling Scotland for Scotland.

      No need for nasty names. Just don’t sign if you don’t want to protest.
      Don’t say or do anything and you keep the status quo.

      Have a good afternoon under your bed!

    200. lothianlad says:

      Notice Sturgeon is looking ever so smug again on her daily briefings.
      So much for the great Scottish leader charging us towards Independence and causing havoc to the unionists at every turn like we hoped she would.

      I cannot believe I look at an SNP leader who has overwhelming mandates and power and who has been so ineffective at moving us closer towards freedom.

      Then there is the issues of an SNP government, which she leads, that prosecutes journalists, has a justice secretary that evades the challenges to the corruption in the justice department, and that has been heavily involved in the disgraceful way Alex was treated.

      Then she pleads for a section 30 order and meekly accepts the refusal.

      We really do need a New leader in the SNP. My vote is Angus McNeil if he was to throw his hat in the ring.

    201. Republicofscotland says:

      “Actually, there is EVERY excuse for murderous riots and looting. Peaceful protest simply does not work, as some people are now waking up to in the quest for Scottish independence.”

      “I’m emphatically not equating the murder of a black man with Scottish independence, I’m pointing out the futility of peaceful protest.”

      Actually Mist001, hitting the bastards where it hurts would probably be just as effective and save lives. What I mean by that in America anyway you could withhold or stop paying taxes, that would soon get their attention.

      As for independence in Scotland I’m all for not complying with a foreign countrys government, not violence mind you but just cutting out Westminster altogether and running our own affairs from Holyrood, what’s the worst they can do invade Scotland, shutdown Holyrood bring martial law to the streets of Scotland. I’m all for that for Scots would flock to the independence banners in their droves.

      By complying with a foreign governments rules and laws we bind ourselves tightly in this excuse for union. Look at it this way we didn’t vote to join this union, so we don’t need to vote to leave it.

      Of course we’d need a leader with courage and determination that really wants Scottish independence, right now we’re missing such a person.

    202. CameronB Brodie says:

      I simply pointing folk towards a particular perspective that supports inclusive sustainability. It is entirely up to the reader whether they wish to engage, and the manner in which they do so. This stuff is practical knowledge that can help us to indy, which I know some appreciate. 😉

      Power, Emancipation, and Complexity:
      employing critical theory

    203. Stoker says:

      Starting to look like an abuse of power? lol Starting? *It is!*

    204. CameronB Brodie says:

      I can’t help it if I’ve been trained to tackle misogynistic patriarchy at its’ cultural roots. Which means I’ve also been trained to dismantle British nationalism, and refute gender-ideology.

      The dialectic of democracy: modernization, emancipation and the great regression

    205. Millennium says:

      Bob Mack

      I would just love you to say that to my face

      You were born a pacifist prick and you will die a pacifist prick

      Keyboard warrior like Liz g

      An old snobby bastard who has no time for anyone who says a bad word against his beloved Sturgeon

      I forgot to add you to the list of Sturgeonistas who use Wings to push the SNP agenda onto the hard of thinking

      Well Fannies like you and Sturgeon have been found out

      Your time is up

      Now fuck off along with

      Liz g

      The LibDems website Is more suited to your Devolution within the Union stance.

      Now get back to your knitting Boaby

    206. Liz g says:

      Bob Mack @ 2.52
      The Revs on holiday so I don’t know how engaged he is!
      You could try the “contact” button and feel free to add my name to any complaints

    207. Juteman says:

      The 77th have totally taken over the BTL comment section.

    208. Stoker says:

      To Effijy On 4 June, 2020 at 2:54 pm:

      GTF with all your irrelevant waffle. And btw you moron there are no “nasty names” in my post. The point is you clown, as you well know, YOU are repeatedly trying to trap folk into parting with their details to private data harvesting companies who masquerade as “petition” sites.

      And you *NEVER* warn folk about that. WOS is fundamentally built on 2 words ‘The Truth’ and what you’re doing is nothing of the sort. I and many others do not keep trying to build this sites readership for utter twats like you to try and con them you dispicable little toad.

      As you’ve been told many-a-time, the more twats like you try and con folk the more i’ll alert them to what you’re doing and what those companies truly are. So take yer waffle and shove it you untrustworthy moron. There, hopefully that’ll be enough nasty names to make up for your earlier waffling false allegations.

      And btw CoCo, who said you were “hiding”? Coz i certainly didn’t! Fuck! Demented or what? LMFAO Fool!

    209. Millennium says:

      Bob Mack sums up why Scots like him just seem to accept the status quo

      No angry words

      No fight against the english establishment

      No fight against the Scottish government

      Just the same old same old

      They can’t see they are getting taken for mugs

      They can’t see Sturgeon has no intention of fighting for Scottish Independence

      They can’t see Blackford is enjoying the London lifestyle and has no intention of fighting for Scottish Independence

      They can’t see everyone of the elected SNP reps are making an absolute fortune off of the backs of the punters who have been fighting for Independence on a voluntary basis

      The only people that are making anything out of our fight for Independence are the ones we have elected and all the office staff required to run their affairs

      The rest of us have been hung out to dry.

      What about us Sturgeon,,,we are the ones who put you there,,,and now you discard us like some piece of filth you picked up in your shoe.

      Bob Mack and Sturgeon,,,a pair of snobby bastards

    210. CameronB Brodie says:

      The thing with grounding one’s politics in magical thinking and ego, is it leave one prone to making a slave of one’s self. Just saying. 😉

      Psychology’s Contribution to Socio-Cultural, Political, and Individual Emancipation's_Contribution_to_Socio-Cultural_Political_and_Individual_Emancipation

    211. Liz g says:

      Juteman @ 3.25
      It looks very much like it..but don’t worry too much!
      We’ve demonstrated more then once that we can take it back any time we like..
      All they are really doing is, identifying to the man with the block button where he needs to “Plough the Road” when it actually matters

    212. Republicofscotland says:

      From MacAskills excellent article, it says it all really.

      “There’s also the issue of contempt of court cases that have been brought, which is the charge facing the former Ambassador Craig Murray. I asked the Crown how many such cases, relating to publication or disclosure of proceedings, had been brought on an annual basis since 1999. Not hard you might have thought, they’d be few and the Crown keep meticulous records, as we’ve seen.”

      “But apparently not. The response was they “do not keep” them. Yet, surprisingly, the same information’s readily available in England and Wales, and a matter of public record. Numbers there were limited, and Scotland could expect to have far less even than its Barnett share. Given that I’m led to believe that it may not even be a handful here,”

    213. lothianlad says:

      They say power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
      well, from observing political parties and governments over the decades, its clear that every government gets lazy and looses favour with the public.

      Often this is a result, not of staleness and need for a change, but rather that the governing party gets rotten from the inside and the public eventually desire change.

      it happened to the tories from 79 -97 and new liebour also.

      The SNP are in real danger of allowing nature deniers, careerists and opportunists, and not a small proportion of ‘unionists’ from within its ranks to utterly screw up our chances of Independence.

      Since sturgeon took over, I see this party and SG morph into a new labour tribute act that is harming any chance of regaining our freedom.

      compliancy is our enemy if we do not act now to remove the core sturgeon careerists and strategists form influencing policy anymore.

      Sturgeon in surviving in the limelight of the unionist media and being given a platform to portray credibility because they know, she is the unions safest bet!

      remember folks, this is the so called leader of the Independence movement.

      change is essential, and it needs to happen soon.!

    214. callmedave says:

      Figures today:
      All the colonial BBC web sites are reporting for duty, not so much for the BBC UK and England web sites.
      The SUN also offers some info.

      I believe the ONS England and Wales data is released today also.

      Scotland ……….today…09……..Total….2395…BBC
      N. Ireland………today…01……..Total…..535…BBC
      England…………today.*115…… fig..*SUN
      UK………………no fig… fig…

    215. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      That’s a good yin

      So you dig me out and then go running to Rev to report ME,,, stroll fuckin on

      And getting your knitting partner Bob Mack to back you up..

      Aye,,, that makes sense,,, not!!!

    216. Effijy says:

      Stoker- I think you are having a Stroke!

      You seem to have used 2 x Moron, Clown and
      A few abbreviations, so pleased you are not calling me

      The link used let you read all about what the petition
      Is all about and each decided if they want to sign it.

      Thank you for offering to monitor the Rev’s site and
      selecting the sign up option for those who can’t read.

      The public vote of No Confidence in Boris was stalling this morning
      But I’m pleased to say another 9,000 have signed up
      Since I posted and new signatures coming in every few seconds.

      I don’t receive and contact of any sort from signing these petitions but
      If you did you select unsubscribe and they are gone.

      No doubt they have shared the info with others to say don’t contact him if
      You are looking for a Unionist vote but pitch fork sellers might want to advise
      Me of any offers.

      Waffles are nice hot with some butter.

    217. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      You come across as a right wee twisted Bitch

      Coz somebody called you out, you feel the need to get your wee gang together and turn on that poster

      Mammy, he stole ma sweety !!!

      Dry yer eyes Bean

    218. Liz g says:

      callmedave @ 3.43pm
      In the middle of everything,that, you’re making sure that we all have the figures on here…. is such a service which is so important….. I’d like to THANK YOU so much for your efforts…. This is IMPORTANT stuff…. X

    219. Rm says:

      Aye Angus MacNeil and Joanna Cherry the could be a good team both got a wee bit o pith.

    220. Bob Mack says:

      @Liz g,

      Hi Liz, I have reported tough guy and the others to the site owner. What he wants to do about it is down to him.

      Meanwhile the rest of us just have to cringe and “bear up” at the appalling grammar and vocabulary deficit of the illiterates. Snobby enough ?

    221. Millennium says:

      Bob Mack Liz g

      Lothianlad posted a brilliant comment at 3 .43pm

      How would you describe him and what he wrote???

      It is no different from what I have been posting

      Or have you got a special place for me in your heart.

      Are you going to report lothianlad to the Rev???

      We await your answers with interest

    222. Doug says:

      The FM is warning us all about a post-virus economic crisis. Don’t be surprised when she announces that because of the economic crisis independence can’t be considered. She’s eager to use it as another excuse for delay.

      Time for Alex Salmond to go public about his court case. Time for a new FM.

    223. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      Goes round wings punters trying to drum up support

      We see you playing to the gallery bean

    224. Liz g says:

      Here’s ma tin foil ( nothing up wi tin foil,it very useful ) hat theory!
      An exposed disruptor has to go..
      So they become so outrageous that the normal people want them gone….hey ho…don’t we all.
      I propose a new approach…let’s let them vent..then they’ve nae excuse…to find a fridge and make another entrance?
      Tis a thought??? …. Aye… 🙂

    225. Millennium says:


      Liz g

      Bob Mack

      Two staunch Nicola Sturgeon apologists

      They are anti Alex Salmond

      They are against anyone who says a bad word against their sweetheart Sturgeon

      They bully anyone who wants to go down a different Indy road to that of Sturgeon.

      Rev,,,if you are offended by the odd sweary word then I apologise

      But to the Sturgeonistas,,,I will never apologise

      That includes you two clowns Bob Mack and Liz g

    226. Liz g says:

      Bob Mack @ 4.01
      Well done sir…We’ll wait and see…but like I said…the Rev is very astute,he might be waiting till people reveal themselves…and I’ll not argue with matter how hurtful the comments are…

    227. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      A bet ye wish you tried to bully somebody else today.

      Yer awe mooth,,,as they say

    228. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Millennium and Dogbiscuit: you get one warning. Stop behaving like a couple of children. If I see the phrase “little Englander” again on this thread, or any more personal abuse of other commenters, you’re both going on pre-moderation. You are now both responsible for each other.

    229. Millennium says:

      Liz g

      Why not go the full hog and report me to Nicola Sturgeon

      Ya wee grassin bitch,,,along with the rest of the Sturgeon apologists

      “Nicola,,,, they’re sayin bad words about you”

    230. Willie says:

      I read in today’s National that Mike Russel is calling for Scotland to approach the EU directly to request that in the event of a no deal Brexit that Scotland be permitted a two year extension to the exit transition period.

      After all opines Mr Russel Scotland voted to remain in the EU.

      An interesting call but why so late, and why for only an extension to the exit period. If an extension was a prelude to Scotland remaining, then one can understand the logic. But if a deal is done, then Scotland is out. End of story. And that is not what Scotland voted for.

      The SNP have no right to accept exit from the EU. Taking votes under false pretences they broken their manifesto commitments and have disregarded the wishes of the majority who voted to remain.

    231. Sarah says:

      @ Liz g, Bob Mack et al: I shall do my bit on the Contact button – again. Is this stream of nasty witless vituperation because of what I said at 09.40 about the quality of btl in the “old days”?

      Back to what we should be talking about… recent letters in The National point out that SNP MPs and Scot gov are playing by Westminster’s rule book despite the fact that the Westminster govt has itself torn up the rule book.

      So Scotland is entitled to withdraw from this uncontrollable dictatorship and set up our own democracy. I agree wholeheartedly with this. There is no point at all in obeying the rules when the other side doesn’t.

      And our position in Scotland is getting more and more dangerous each day – the huge “UK gov in Scotland” offices, the attack on Holyrood’s powers, the financial drain – it has to stop and Scot Gov must act NOW. Just announce we have withdrawn from the Union and will negotiate but no longer obey.

      Holyrood legislation could be passed immediately requiring all businesses trading in Scotland and resident individuals to send their taxes and VAT etc to the Scottish Investment Bank.

      Then watch the sparks fly. Westminster gov is so incompetent that they couldn’t organise the brewery event let alone crush Scotland.

      Let’s go!!

    232. Thompson says:

      Vote Yes

    233. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, here’s one for folk with a bit of time on their hands. If Scotland wishes to enjoy the benefits of democracy, It really needs to tell Westminster to swivel, and make recourse to international law.

      British constitutionalism has no intention of recognising Scotland’s history and culture, so I doubt it will pay much attention to Scotland’s future needs.

      Democratizing Democracy. Beyond the Liberal Democratic Canon

    234. Liz g says:

      Bob Mack @ 4.01
      Well I wasn’t going to mention it.. ( because I find the most literate people the most astute AND the most enlightened) but..seriously….
      We must be so..careful to not give the impression that only the intelligencia or smart people want Indy…
      This Thing We Want ( the people of Scotland ) is only ..
      Bring Yer Government Within Slapping Distance.
      What’s so wrong wi that??

    235. Millennium says:

      Nae Borra Rev

    236. Millennium says:

      I think I got the message out

      Cards are marked

      Their cover is blown

    237. Stoker says:

      To Effijy @ 3:55pm

      Is that it? Is that all you’ve got? More mumble jumble. Going by the state of your sentence construction attempts i’d say it’s you who’s having the stroke. Now, if you don’t mind, liar, i’ve far better things to be doing with my time than showing you up.

      Anyone brave enough to try and read your guff will see that you doth protest too much. You’re slevvering about things nobody mentioned, almost as if you work for these data harvesting companies. Mind you, we’d understand you if you wrote clearer.

      Anyway, shove off you utter moron and just remember, every time i see you attempting to con folk into parting with their details for data harvesting companies i’m going to expose you for what you are.

      Oh, and you might want to know, self-boosting those figures on their fake petitions is par for the course. It’s what they do to fool pure muppets like you into believing it’s real folk signing. LOL!

    238. Millennium says:

      I think I will start describing Sturgeon as the

      “Lesbesn Leader of the Scottish Devolutionist Party”

      That should keep me out of trouble.

    239. Oneliner says:

      Why does every thread turn into Sturgeon vs Salmond? Personally I’m not sold on either but would agree that the former has the better chance of increasing the majority.

      Surely it can’t be by accident that the divisive undercurrent comes to the surface every time. We shall defeat the fifth column with light, not with heat.

    240. Millennium says:


      Typo in last post

      It should have read,,

      Nicola Sturgeon,,,

      “The Lesbian Leader of the Scottish Devolutionist Party”

    241. cirsium says:

      well said, Lothian lad, 3.43pm

      good comment, Lizg, 2.07. Cases are falling because the virus peaked weeks ago. Just before the UK government instituted the “lockdown”, it downgraded the alert on the virus. The idea was to save the NHS. Well, that target has been achieved so why is there no end in sight to the “lockdown”? After all, Denmark started to reopen in mid-April and has said that the spread hasn’t accelerated since the reopening. Why have the targets been changed? Why was the vulnerable cohort sacrificed in order that they might be saved? What is the cost in human lives from the thousands of undiagnosed cancers, untreated diseases, and the growth in suicides, domestic violence, and child abuse? The FM is starting to mention the economy. Is the cost of this “lockdown” going to be the pauperisation of society?

    242. Chipmonkey says:

      I’ve not been here for a while. How little changes. A labour MP wants to know about Nursing homes deaths, so he heads to twitter to deride the Scottish Government instead of asking Boris directly why he didn’t report all the English ones… No point doing his day job. Also here on comments, there are still some as long as blogs. 🙂

    243. Dan says:

      Opens Wing’s comments / raises eyebrow / opens new tab to E bay / orders a ten pack of mouse scroll wheel bearings / opens beer…

    244. Gary45% says:

      I think “Scotland in Onion” is more your glass of milk.
      Your comment- it must have taken you all year to think that up.
      Deriding someone’s sexuality is soooo last century.
      Grow up.

    245. Millennium says:

      Canny wait to visit the “Wings Stall” at next rally.

      Meet up with Wingers who post on here,,,

      See you there,,,

      I might turn up at the next Wings get together

      See you there Wingers

      Will find out if those more vocal ones are as vocal as they make out they are…..

      Should be fun,,,lol

      Canny wait!!!

    246. Mist001 says:

      How can Mrs. Murrell ever be called a leader? All she’s doing is copying what Westminster said a week earlier and BTW, if the Boris Johnson and the UK government have had a bad crisis, then that means that Mrs. Murrell and the Scottish government have had a bad crisis too.

      Why do people think she’s a good leader?

      She’s fucking pish.

    247. Millennium says:

      Calling someone a lesbian does NOT deride their sexuality

      It is just a statement of fact

      Unless of course you have a problem with lesbians???

      Does it shock you to hear of someone being a lesbian???

      Did you lead a sheltered life???

    248. callmedave says:

      It’s been official for a wee while now but still big Auntie BBC darn Sarf doesn’t have any figures on it’s ‘Corona virus England web site….but…but as usual UK figures are given!

      Funny old world init! FGS.

      See table below no England figs from the BBC.


      Scotland ……….today…09……..Total….2395…BBC
      N. Ireland………today…01……..Total…..535…BBC
      England…………today.*115…… fig..*SUN
      UK……………….176…..Total… 39904… WM Gov + BBC

    249. Ottomanboi says:

      If/when you go out, cover your face, then maybe rob a bank, loot a shop, mug someone or trigger your suicide vest.
      What was bad, is now good.
      How ‘the world’ has changed.
      Thanks you politicians and self-styled experts, but no thanks.

    250. Sandy says:

      Masks on English transport. What of Mogg’s ruling regarding Westminster. Shouldn’t MPs be masked at all times? Might I suggest GAGGS.

    251. Millennium says:

      Nicola loves Shona


    252. David says:

      Online abuse is eventually going to force politicans to control it by law including this site and you will deserve it.

    253. Ruglonian says:

      Sarah @2.48am & Dan @9.32am – thanks for engaging in the topic I brought up.
      Hopefully we can all get on and have a constructive conversation soon about this issue specifically and the direction of the movement now more generally.

      I think something else takes a more immediate priority for now though – btl clean up!!

      See MeInDevon’s comment @2.45pm re the rules of this site.

      Liz, you’re spot on about bringing specific out of order posters to Stu’s attention – he expects us to – I’ve reported the constant disruptive and abusive behaviour of certain folk already today and see that a warning has been issued.
      The pathetic attempt at a threat afterwards has also now been reported – some folk never learn though, so hell mend them!!

    254. CameronB Brodie says:

      There certainly appears to be a number of names here simply to cause disruption.

      Reinventing emancipation in the 21st century: the pedagogical practices of social movements

    255. I despair at the way some people on here reply to each other surely we are all intitled to our views without someone who does not agree with them replying in a nasty way live and let live be nice to each other it’s easy if you try remember what the man said I may not agree with your views but I will defend your right to have them have a nice day everyone

    256. Liz g says:

      Ruglonian @ 5 .36 & Blair Patterson @ 5.42
      Yer quite right…reading it back sounds so like a play ground argument..but hey ho…whit can ye dae!
      One day
      When we need a space to plan!
      We’ll mibbi thank them fur keepin it open tae reclamation.
      Such is life 🙂 🙂

    257. Ottomanboi says:

      Don’t say you were not warned.
      Is La Sturgeon part of this I wonder.
      Not too hot on the nation concept is she?

    258. highseastim says:

      Having just read back through today’s posts, I’d put money on it that Millennium and dog biscuits are unionist operatives!!

    259. CameronB Brodie says:

      Gonna keep your conspiracy theories to yourself please, as they perform no useful purpose. Believing covid is a hoax, is pretty much the denial of science writ large.

      Covid literally destroys the potential for a one world government, as every nation is too busy looking out for their own interests to cooperate. When allowed to obvs.

      Emancipation Writ Large: Toward an Ecocentric Green Political Theory

    260. Liz g says:

      Ruglonian @ 5.36
      Thank you…. I really don’t mind debating with anyone..even if we finish up never agreeing, but, it should not get so personal
      I’m glad the Rev stepped in… I hope we can now stay on topic….the guy fucking well takes the time to write an article and there’s some fuckers think that this is a chance to argue ..stuff… Like I said..the internet is a big place so..they should put up or shut up..
      Or find their own space!!!

    261. Millennium says:

      Sturgeon is on one massive ego trip.

      She has a “Do not disturb” sign tattooed on her forehead.

      And is certainly not someone we would want as Prime Minister of our newly won Independent Scotland.

    262. Dan says:


      Re. “The Indy Movement” is now a rather ironic name for the cause unless you’re using a micrometer to measure any appreciable gains, because so much has been stifled by covid, and the lack of any democratic event to express oorselves and actually put Scotland’s Future In Scotland’s Hands.
      The polls may have shifted towards Indy due to the utter clusterfuck playing out in Westminster, but arguably with the loss of our EU Citizenship and what’s looking like an ever harder exit from the EU with all that brings across Scottish society, plus impending Hate Speech Bill and GRA, some may think we have actually gone backwards in real terms.
      Going down with a ship of fools whilst our own shiny lifeboat remains tethered to that stricken ship is quite a spectacular fuck up in terms of self-preservation.

    263. CameronB Brodie says:

      The nation state is still the most significant and practicle unit of social organisation, despite globalisation. So we need to take the opportunity provided by Brexitd, to re-connect Scotland with the international legal order, so as to re-invent Scotland in a manner fit to face the future. Subjugation under British constitutionalism offers no hope for a sustainable Scotland.

      Friedrich List and the political economy of the nation-state

      In an era of global changes the fate of the nation-state is of crucial importance for every student of political economy. This much is indeed reflected in the wide attention recently paid to the implications of globalization on the nation-state. Unfortunately, the point of view of the political economy of nationalism is largely unexplored in this discussion. Thus, this article discusses Friedrich List’s political economy in order to shed light on the economic role of the state.

      List is recognized today worldwide as one of the most influential trade theorists and as one of the first to popularize the theory of ‘infant industries’. Yet this recognition only partly reflects his significance as a political economist. The main assertion of this article is that in order to discuss the fate of the nation-state we must first be able to clarify its economic roles. This, in turn, may lead us to the conclusion that current assertions concerning the so-called ‘diminishing autonomy of the state’ as well as the ‘imperative of globalization’ are over-stressed under the influence of laissez-faire conceptions of political economy.

    264. Covid 19 has been a known deadly threat in the UK since March/April,

      why was this not the very first response 8/9 weeks ago,

      fricken madness,

      `Face coverings will be compulsory for passengers on buses, trains, aircraft and ferries in England from June 15,

      Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said on Thursday.
      “As of Monday 15th of June, face coverings will become mandatory on public transport,”

      he told a daily COVID-19 news conference. “That doesn’t mean surgical masks, which we must keep for clinical settings, it means the kind of face covering you can easily make at home.

      “The evidence suggests that wearing face coverings offers some, albeit limited, protection, against the spread of the virus,” he added.`

      what the f@ck are we paying the fricken `expert` for.

    265. Sinky says:

      Scotland in Union political activist Prof Hugh Pennington is on BBC Question Time tonight but don’t expect BBC to mention his political campaigning activities as part of a co-ordinated letter writing group attacking the SNP and Scotland’s independence.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Ian Murray, given his Guido Fawkes zoon video, encouraging the BBC to use this retired for 18 years medic who is not a virologist on Question Time as Murray is a sleekit we so and so.

    266. Fireproofjim says:

      Liz g
      You’ve always been civilised in your posts, unlike the weirdos who delight in their anonymous and often disgusting posts. I may not always agree with everyone but we all have a right to put our points without the childish name calling of the likes of millennium.
      This site is for discussion of the route to Independence and we are all seeking that. Well maybe not millennium who seems to delight in disruption. Still he is probably rather immature and judging by his name, is a millennium baby, and not yet twenty. Maturity and wisdom may come later.

    267. Lothianlad says:

      Thankyou for the kind comments earlier. I love the debate and interesting points of view among us. But…. I have one request please….
      Can we treat each other with respect and some kindness?

      We All want independence, let’s not be divided and harmful.

    268. Liz g says:

      Fireproofjim @ 6.50
      Thank you for sayin… And yes…all I want to do is to discuss,argue,debate and work out..our best way forward!
      I’ve only recently been trying to point out the try to get thing back on track..please forgive me if I engage with them sometimes!! …. I really am only trying to make a point..

    269. Mike d says:

      I avoid scottish unionists/proud scots/ benedict arnolds because my temper can go from 0 to life imprisonment in 2 seconds.

    270. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –

      Cheers for that link (the Winter Oak one) at 7.42. Haven’t tackled the other one yet.

      Here’s hoping we get some more quality commentary and links over the coming weekend.


    271. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Here’s hoping we get some more quality commentary and links over the coming weekend.”

      @Ian B: well, don’t look at me! 🙂

    272. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Until we get a steadier supply of relevant and civil comments, here’s a swatch back at some of the best from years past. Funny, prescient, combative etc.

      Here’s a wee teaser to start off – try guessing when this one was written.

      scottish_skier says:

      Interesting the results of the recent EU issue polls. On balance, I’d suggest the UK is knife edge on in or out. Scotland is up to 10% more pro-EU than the UK as a whole. Very clear difference across the border anyway.

      If it came to it, I think you’d see a comfortable but not huge Yes to remain in the EU from Scotland with a potential narrow win for an exit in England. Ergo, Britain could well leave.

      The interesting thing is that the obvious Tory support for leaving the EU may well encourage support for Scotland remaining in it. After all, if the Tories want out, then the EU must have some positives (in terms of protecting workers rights etc)….

    273. Sinky says:

      Arch Unionist, Neil Oliver, just like Muriel Gray, on Landward on BBC Scotland trying to justify his mismanagement of National Trust for Scotland

    274. Beaker says:

      Now that face masks are about to be compulsory, isn’t this a great business opportunity?

      Face masks! Get yer face masks hee-ar! Two fer a pounnnnd! Two fer a pounnnnd!

      Too much coffee…

    275. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ooooh, this is a peach.

      This one was posted only about half an hour after Scottish Skier’s. But can you guess who wrote it? (Clue: this commenter has long since left WOS, or no longer uses his/her ‘real’ name at any rate.)

      Unfortunately, you have to have been a member of the SNP for two years before you get entered into the Cybernat Training Programmes. This is to ensure that you can be trusted with our ancient methods of re-educating the populace to brainwa… sorry, GUIDE people towards the correct way of thinking, and not have them fall into the hands of the evil Conspiracy of Unionist Naysaying Traitors (North Britain branch).

      However, the good news is that you’re eligible for a red armband with our REAL insignia on it, as well as a pair of custom-made jackboots.

    276. MaggieC says:

      This video clip is from Joanna Cherry’s twitter feed from the debate in Westminster this pm .

      This is from Hansard and I like this quote from it when Joanna is taking a swipe at Michael Gove ,

      I do not expect the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster to take what Scotland’s elected representatives vote for remotely seriously. I know that whether he is affecting a courtesy and a concern for our voices, or whether he is putting the boot into us for the benefit of his Back Benchers, Scotland is not his concern, because Scotland returns very few Conservative Members to this Parliament.

      Enjoy the video .

    277. 40,000+ dead, and now they say face coverings mandatory.

      A virus that is contracted and spread by water vapour from the mouth and nose,

      and the `experts` wait till 40,000+ dead to say,

      `maybe face coverings might help stop contract and spread`

      one of those experts,

      `Prof Pennington added he is “sceptical” as to whether masks offer any protection in reducing infection for those who wear them,`

      should be f@cken jailed.

    278. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood @ 8.22pm

      The answer…Doug Daniel.

    279. Liz g says:

      Beaker @ 8.20
      Well…different strokes fur different foke’s personally I’m lovin it.
      That their facial recognition push has gone to shit is right up ma street.
      I’ll put that mask on and be glad of it 🙂

    280. robbo says:

      Carlaw & Murray- two cheeks of the same arse right enough.

      This does need a bit of verification ,but could be interesting.

    281. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Another btl comment from the same date, only 90 mins after that last one. And it’s by none other than Rev. Stuart Campbell.

      In absolute fairness – as is the Wings Over Scotland way – from a journalistic point of view I hate people describing the SNP as “the Nationalists” with a capital ‘N’, because while they may be nationalists with a small ‘n’, they’re NOT the Scottish Nationalist Party. They’re the Scottish National Party. The two words aren’t interchangeable – if you want to get a bus from Birmingham to London you don’t hop on a Nationalist Express. Yet far too often, despite the party having existed for most of a century, journalists and commentators, especially English ones, still FAR too often “accidentally” write “Scottish Nationalist Party”.

      All that said, I also hate to see supporters of independence conspire in the sullying of the n-word. In the context of the civic nationalism 99.9% of us aspire to, it’s a perfectly honourable and respectable term, and treating it like it means something horrible serves only our opponents.

    282. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Clapper 57 –


      Do you have a date?

    283. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood @ 9.53pm

      28th January 2013

    284. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Scot Finlayson

      To be fair to the Prof. not a lot of people know much about this disease.

      Though science has proven that his farts can make their way through his underpants and thick corduroy trousers to stink out the whole room.

    285. Liz g says:

      Col Blimp 4th @ 10.07
      Dis it matter…really ?…dis it matter?
      For goodness sake!
      If the masks help … Great…if they don’t…It costs us NOTHING why shouldn’t we embrace this.??

    286. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Clapper 57 –

      Hoots! You win another flashback, this time to what must be one of the busiest months on WOS, ever (well, for Rev. Stu anyway).

      If I’ve read the archive stats correctly, March 2014 saw the highest number of posts in the site’s history. 134.

      That’s 134 actual posts.

      Haven’t read even a fraction of the posts let alone btl comments, but there’s an outstanding candidate for best Scottish politics screengrab of all time right here, showing Ian Davidson, sans tache (isn’t it strange how you still see it on him, even though he hasn’t sported it for about 20 years?) beside a woman who is, quite clearly, channelling a vision of the Labour Party five years hence.

    287. Baxter1967 says:

      Watched Alison Thewllis MP get comprehensively put down by Keri Badenoch Minister for Equalities in the HoC.
      Thewllis took the Pavlov’s dog approach to the woke bell ringing. Rather than carefully studying the economic and social complexities to her question she went for simple virtue signalling and fell flat. Patrick Grady MP parroted the same, and equally failed.
      It’s getting too predictable and I now fail to see the point of the SNP in Westminster. All about the Twitter feed and too much Islington Guardinista for me.

    288. at last….. a useful blog

    289. Beaker says:

      @Liz g says:
      4 June, 2020 at 9:47 pm
      Beaker @ 8.20
      “Well…different strokes fur different foke’s personally I’m lovin it.
      That their facial recognition push has gone to shit is right up ma street.”

      Never mind masks screwing facial recognition, I’ve not had a haircut since early March. I usually sport a Number 1, but going to end up looking like cousin It from the Addams Family. Least I won’t need a mask.

    290. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s a btl comment from that last link.

      Question: Who is Lochside referring to?

      Try and work it out without using ‘search’.

      Nae cheatin!


      Lochside says:
      22 March, 2014 at 9:24 pm

      If it’s true about ******’s despicable jibes at AS’s personal life then all I can say is that she is a public disgrace to Scotland.

      I watched her car crash interviews with Brewer and with Taylor with mounting disbelief and concluded she is the political reincarnation of Stanley Unwin (look him up younger wingcos).

      A babbling charlatan without an ounce of scruple or intelligence. Spitting out speak your weight sound bites: ‘pooling and sharing’,’broad shoulders’ blah blah blah. With absolutely no basic understanding of the economic figures she quoted, she made Douglas Fraser sound like Adam Smith.

      How long are the journalists in this country going to prostitute their professional integrity allowing this self-serving cretin away with her nasty, low and vile behaviour?

      Along with the other (“Quizmaster” – Ed)s in the Labour party jerking like badly constructed marionettes to the BT drumbeat of doom, this grotesque pantomime has been allowed to drag on too long.

      History will condemn the BBC for permitting these political shams credence and the oxygen of publicity.

      Public broadcasting?…Give Radio Govan Jackie Bird’s salary and I bet they’d give a better and more balanced service to the country.

    291. ronnie anderson says:

      The UK governments handling of this pandemic has been a comedy of errors from the start & now their cartoon adverts on Bbc showing how to wash your hands & put on a mask . Get us tae F out of this nightmare SNP .

    292. Willie says:

      Yes, very interesting that now, after about 70,000 excess deaths the government has decided that in England all travellers on public transport will have to wear a mask.

      Why not before is the obvious question. Is it efficacious or is it a cheap shot for political effect.

      And if it is efficacious can someone please explain how farting by one individual can stink out an entire room with underpants and trousers effecting no barrier whatsoever. And unlike a cough, or a sneeze, it’s often difficult to tell who it is that’s been letting go. In this context silent but deadly takes on a whole new meaning.

      And worse still we all know that there are in our midst secret farters. Those who would sidle up, let one go, and sidle off having silently let go. Predominately, but not exclusively men, one wonders what consideration is being given to close proximity farting.

    293. Col.Blimp IV says:

      “…It costs us NOTHING why shouldn’t we embrace this.??”

      Not quite nothing … but less than a fiver.

      so why not…

    294. dakk says:

      Magrit Curran?

    295. Joe says:

      RE: debate standards

      I agree its gotten ridiculous the last few days. Im not going to change much though. Anyone who is both polite and thinks outside of the tiny communal box here isn’t treated with much respect and its often downright rude but I don’t see any complaints about that.

    296. Col.Blimp IV says:

      dakk says: at 11:19 pm

      “Magrit Curran?”

      You could superglue her bum-cheeks shut and she would still stink out the whole room.

    297. Joe says:

      Im not talking about myself. Everyone mostly uses silence and a dont-engage-the-troll policy to tacitly agree me. Which is quite nice really

    298. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood @ 10.29pm

      Ian Davidson…is he the one that started a fan club for Jim Murphy post 2015 GE…Lol

      Re the woman …her face may be in Lamont mode because she is sitting next to Ian Davidson….personally I would have moved seats….not that I would have been there in the first place…obvs….Lol

    299. CameronB Brodie says:

      If you’re not prepared to tell us your scientific and ethical position, you can bump your gums for a month of Sundays and I’ll still not believe you. Mkay?

      Social Psychology and Social Justice: Critical Principles and Perspectives for the Twenty-First Century

    300. Ian Brotherhood says:

      As this comment appeared btl on Wings, many of us had already gathered in The Counting House in Glasgow for one of the first big ‘Friends of Wings’ socials.

      ‘Robert Peffers says:
      4 April, 2014 at 6:43 pm
      Rest in peace Margo. My fondest memory of Margo was way back in the early 70s. My late wife and I had just married and our wedding reception clashed with the Local SNP branch annual dance. As all our friends and family were branch members we had a dilemma. We were involved in running the dance so decided to combine the two events. Margo was guest of honour for the Branch dance and my wife and Margo spent the evening sitting together. Sadly neither of them has survived to live in a free and independent Scotland. I picture them now sitting together blethering away as they did that night – in a free and independent heaven somewhere.’

    301. Liz g says:

      Beaker @ 10.35
      Wee bit o’ advice here…don’t worry about the haircut just buy Mrs Beaker the *Outlander* book wash the dishes while she reads it and say Sasanach…..then hairy is me on this :-)…yer welcome 🙂

    302. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood @ 10.40pm

      Hi Ian , I read the word “cretin” and immediately thought of Annie Wells…but she was not an MSP then I don’t think….

      Then I read further down and saw this quote ….

      ” other (“Quizmaster” – Ed)s in the Labour party”…so has to be female in Labour party…mind you the description could fit a vast amount of MSP’s in all of the Unionist parties ( Male & Female..Lol)…

      My guess is Ms Dugdale….am I right and if so what’s my prize…assume if wrong I get the b**by prize (missing two letters in word with * are ‘ob’…in case someone comes up with a more offensive word)..Lol

    303. Clapper57 says:

      @ Me @ 12.06am

      Ha Ha Ha….missing letters NOT ‘ob’…Lol but ‘oo’…BLol

      Fair embarrassed I am…for sure…Lol

    304. Liz g says:

      Clapper 57 @ 12.06
      Hey Flapper….I love that you think there’s a prize 🙂
      But this is oor Ian we’re talking aboot!!!
      Don’t worry though….I’ll make sure he buys ye a drink,at the next Wings night oot 🙂 🙂

    305. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Clapper57 –


      Good on ye for having a stab at it but, as yer man Roy Walker was wont to say, ‘It’s good, but you’re not right!’


    306. Clapper57 says:

      @ Liz G @ 12.13am

      Hi Liz, sorry you have been having undeserved abuse today…glad Rev sorted it.

      Re prize….was clutching at straws…and would that drink be a large one…mines a treble Ian…Lol

      Keep smiling and joking you are well thought of on here lovely lady….have a fabby day tomorrow….take care

    307. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood @ 12.14am

      So 2014….Labour…female…right…so :

      A very prominent Better Together Scottish Labour female in lead up to Indy Ref ……was………LAMONT….she was terrible in interviews she was unintelligible and tended to be quite bitter in her comments especially against the SNP…..come on…must be smiling Lamont….if not I am stumped….and if not will take the b**by prize ** is two ‘oo’s’ not as I previously incorrectly stated ** being ‘ob’…Lol

    308. Ruglonian says:

      Hey Ian 🙂
      Nice idea with the wee btl quiz!

      I often think, when I see folk abusing this space for their own selfish reasons, that it’s a disrespect to all of those who spent time building the place up with their wit, knowledge, and outpourings of friendship.

      There’s many beloved characters who don’t post here any longer – for myriad diverse reasons that made each and every one of their contributions compelling and appreciated – but with the talk of FOW do’s, I just wanted to make mention of our dear Cearc.
      She was nuts, she was super smart, and she was uniquely hilarious both here and irl company – she’ll always be highly thought of, and missed.

    309. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Re Mystery Woman

      It isn’t Jean Freeman unrecognisable, because the speaker has wiped the smile off her face and the will to live is being slowly sucked out of her?

    310. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      I was looking at the photie … missed your spiel at 10.40

      So is it Anne Somethingorother? … Widdicombe or Mckechin would be my best two guesses.

    311. Robert Louis says:

      I see the English Prime Minister, Dominic Cummings, is expanding the Tory parties online and electronic propaganda apparatus. Apprently they will work hand-in-hand with the 77th Brigade of the English army.

      So that’ll mean even more thick-as-sh*t unionist trolls and concern trolls on here then.

      What is the motto of the ‘british’ army? ‘Stifling Scottish democracy and independence, every day, in every way’. Good old colonialism.

    312. call me dave says:

      Radio shorbread says:

      Corona virus exercise ‘iris’ 2018 in Scotland in a hotel now going to be the subject of much discussion as it has now been published by the SGov in resonse to a FOI request.

    313. call me dave says:

      Coronavirus: Outbreak exercise showed ‘clear gap’ in readiness

      PS: That world beating app still not ready:

      Coronavirus: NHS contact-tracing app in place by end of month, says minister

    314. Breeks says:

      Robert Louis says:
      5 June, 2020 at 6:59 am
      I see the English Prime Minister, Dominic Cummings, is expanding the Tory parties online and electronic propaganda apparatus. Apprently they will work hand-in-hand with the 77th Brigade of the English army…

      Are the Scottish Government paying their expenses and vilifying cybernats too?

    315. CameronB Brodie says:

      It wouldn’t surprise me if the SG was paying a portion of the 77th Brigade’s costs, as they have done about everything else they could to undermine the fight for Scottish independence, including turning a blind eye to human rights law.

      The Oxford Handbook of Social Psychology and Social Justice
      Social Justice in Multicultural Europe: A Social Psychological Perspective

    316. CameronB Brodie says:

      Imagine that, an independence party that is too scared or condition to put up an effective fight against fascism. Fucking pathetic, that’s what it is.

      An Introduction to Critical Social Psychology

    317. Famous15 says:

      I am so fed up with statistics, someone will be telling me next the Tory cabinet has twice the infection rate per head than care homes.

      Oh? Never mind, have a nice day. Rees-Mogg for POTUS.

    318. Ottomanboi says:

      Experts, Schmexperts!
      Trust me I’m a……doh! doh! doh!
      Hellbound handcart for hire.

    319. CameronB Brodie says:

      Westminster is a racist patriarchy but the FM appears to be the wrong type of feminist.


    320. CameronB Brodie says:

      You are not medically trained so please stop with your Trumpism and conspiracy shite.

    321. Colin Alexander says:

      Whit is devolution? says a wee boy tae his faither?

      “Devolution is power retained” says his Da.

      “I still don’t get it, Da”, says the boy.

      “Well, son”, says his faither. “Have you ever seen a dug bringing its lead tae it’s owner and it wants the lead oan?”.

      “Aye”, says the boy, “Oor dug dis that when it wants tae go fur a walk”.

      “An’ huv ye ever seen oor dug wearin its lead but, I let it walk wi wan end o the lead in it’s mooth, but it’s still wearin the lead?”

      “We’ve dun that hunners o time wi oor dug. We let the dug think it’s in control for a wee while but wi can grab the lead and bring it tae heel. We’re still in control but we let the dug pretend it’s goat control.”

      “That’s right son; you’ve jist explained devolution”.

    322. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one to help improve the FM’s understanding of relational autonomy and social justice. She also needs to improve her understanding of the law though, as she appears to be rather narrow minded and parochial in her approach to human rights.

      Social Justice Feminism

    323. CameronB Brodie says:

      As I said, the FM appears to be the wrong type of feminist.

      Intersectionality: A Key for Men to Break Out of the Patriarchal Prison?

      Reflecting on male gender activists’ lessons from India, this article explores how intersectionality can help men (and women) better understand the structure of patriarchy, by connecting it to other forms of oppression, based on class, caste and age. The centrality of the gender and class/caste intersection is well illustrated, as is how understanding this can help men better understand their own internal conflicts around masculinity in the politics of everyday lives.

      Whilst taking a structural perspective, the work also engages with dynamic and personal change, by balancing structure and fluidity to understand the interactive shaping of identities, as well as of institutions and projects of justice. We see how using intersectionality can facilitate activists’ work on personal change as well as on building critical consciousness, by linking it to other social justice struggles. The article closes with reflection on the need for practical tools and directions for further research.

      power, gender, activist, India, patriarchy, oppression, change, social justice.

    324. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Clapper 57 –

      Ta da!!!

      Johann Lamont is the right answer.

      I’ve gone and lost the original link now. The post was all about an interview where Gordon Brewer, apparently, took her to pieces, but that video is no longer available.

      She had made some snide remark, during her conference speech, about Alex Salmond and his wife not having any children. The main debate seemed to be whether the remark had been intentional or she had just slipped up.

    325. Effijy says:

      Margaret Curran’s name always makes me laugh
      When I see it.
      She represented the Labour stronghold of Shettleston in Glasgow.
      The area was the sick man of Europe with worst health record and
      the lowest mortality rates.
      Very High levels of crime and unemployment bred depression and dispute.

      When she lost her seat to SNP she just couldn’t believe it.
      The area throughout history had blindly voted for any donkey with a red rosette.

      On her TV interview still angry from defeat she attacked the local electorate
      Saying “ How ungrateful these people are forgetting what she and the Labour Party had done for them”.

      Yes Margaret you Done for them.

      She thought she was great and how dare the plebs not be grateful to her. Lol

    326. Capella says:

      What a welcome relief today from the nasty trolls who appear to have been sent packing, at least until they reappear under different username. Well done everyone who contacted Stu and complained. It’s the only answer.

    327. Sarah says:

      @ Ruglonian at 12.38: cearc was one of the best and I miss her insights along with her wit and kindness.

      I somehow can’t see her continuing the “gradualist” approach in the state of things that have come about in the last 18 months.

    328. CameronB Brodie says:

      Curran is a really nasty piece of work, IMHO. Narrow minded and parochial in the extreme. In other words, a true friend of fascism.

      Towards a relational approach to social justice: liberals, radicals, and Brazil’s ‘new social contract’

    329. Bob Mack says:

      Reading all the posts this morning reaffirms to me that Scotland could be a wonderful country, and I suppose we have undertaken that first step by kicking out all those Unionist party’s who were holding us back one way or another.

      Really what’s holding us up is the SNP waiting for Indy polls to reach a level they find winnable, and if course the Section 30 gold standard route to be agreed with Westminster.

      If your hoping for something else I feel you will be disappointed.

      They are far more cautious than I would like and it is frustrating. I certainly never want to go back to Slab of any other party in power.

    330. callmedave says:

      @Col.Blimp IV
      Thanks for the link.

      Just ordered two Saltire neck snoods, lots of choice on different types, on line.

      As I was reading the link a wifie came on radio shortbread extolling the virtues of wearing a face covering and eventually coughed up she was sporting a Saltire one.

      Good for the marches she said!

      Coincidence or not, now is the time I though. 🙂

    331. robbo says:

      That weasel cole-hamilton lying again it seems

    332. Patrick Roden says:

      ‘Starting to look like’

      Yes, it seems a bit tame and understated, but in fact, it’s diplomatic writing for giving a ‘warning shot across their bows’

      McCaskill is telling them that as the minister who was formerly responsible for Scotlands legal systems, he is concerned about how they are dealing with things.

      It may be tame to us, but the gravitas that he has will have caused a lot of knee-knocking because they will not be sure what his next steps might be.

      Kenny McCaskill comes across as a man who will already have his ‘next steps’ planned if there isn’t a change of tact, so it will be interesting to see what happens next.

    333. Clapper57 says:

      So the Lib Dems are Lib Demming again :

      LibDem Cole-Hamilton was source for fake news story about Scotland care home transfer that never happened.This story was published in the P & J & the Courier who subsequently have both apologised .

      Cole-Hamilton tweeted this response :

      “Received this information from a reliable constituent in good faith. I didn’t name the home in Parliament when I asked about it but it was named in the paper- I got this one wrong and I apologise: Isle View nursing home: Correction and apology -The Courier”

      Sooooooooooo “reliable constituent”…is that another way of saying “Unionist”…..

      It was the care home themselves who clarified this story was untrue aka fake news….

      How desperate they are when they always deploy amateur tactics to attack the Scottish government….a bit like the media…use unreliable sources minus fully checking facts hence retraction required but only AFTER damage done….Care Homes seems to be the Unionists ‘ GO TO’ current weapon to try and somehow implicate that the Scottish Govt. are responsible while giving a wide berth to those who OWN the Private Care homes…

      This will I am sure happen again….and remember if he mentioned it in parliament it would have been televised….so he needs to issue an apology in parliament too as not everyone on/reads Twitter…re the newspapers who published this, and also just accepted it as true quelle surprise….well his name, Cole-Hamilton, was apparently in articles as source of this story…….so people reading it would have accepted HIM as being a “reliable source”….though if the readers did just accept his word then they need to get out more….

      Is there no end to their, the Lib Dems, rubbish opposition? obviously rhetorical question obvs

    334. Clapper57 says:

      @ robbo @ 11.44am

      Hi Robbo, sorry was writing up my comment when I saw you too have added this story…apologies never saw your post as I was typing up mine then submitted it.

      It is terrible though is it not…but not surprising for THEM…as they have a history of LYING to stay relevant…that in itself should tell people how untrustworthy and unprincipled they are…….rogues for sure.

    335. Clapper57 says:

      @ Me @ 12.13pm

      “for THEM” should be “From THEM”

    336. robbo says:

      Clapper57 says:
      5 June, 2020 at 12:13 pm
      @ robbo @ 11.44am

      It’s ok, nae dramas .

    337. Richard Hunter says:

      People crying about Twitter abuse, whoever they are, get absolutely no sympathy from me.

    338. bipod says:

      Very interesting article in the very pro lockdown guardian today.

      Why does nicola sturgeon resist publishing her own scientific advice when the UK government has already published theres? Why does she continue pumping out the doomsdayer rhetoric when it is flying in the face of all scientific evidence i.e the second wave myth. Time to release the lockdown now nicola and let people get back to their lives, those who are more vulnerable or just want to should self isolate themselves to avoid catching the virus. That is the only reasonable solution, not this useless semi permanent lockdown that looks like it will carry on through the rest of the year.

    339. Clapper57 says:

      @ Capella @ 10.06am

      Agree Capella…when we identify inappropriate and personal attacks on people i.e. Play the ball not the man …which is something the Rev asks us to do…report it and then it is up to the owner of the site to determine what to do.

      Also in the About Us section of this website he states :

      “Email us about suspected trolls if you want. But DON’T ENGAGE them in DEBATE if you DOUBT their motives, and DEFINITELY don’t engage in on-thread discussions about whether they’re a troll or not”.

      So do not feed the Trolls…just report your suspicions via the ‘contact us’ option because I think we are all sick to the teeth of the constant abuse and the obvious methods they deploy to disrupt the threads…AND LET’S BE HONEST it’s pretty easy to determine when someone is wanting debate as opposed to just being on here to cause mischief….and abuse others who comment on here.

    340. bipod says:

      Another great article from ASH:, supporters of the continuation lockdown have a lot of questions to answer.

      An extract from a report produced by SAGE

      ‘A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened; it could be that they are reassured by the low death rate in their demographic group. The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging. Communication strategies should provide social approval for desired behaviours and promote social approval within the community.’

    341. Keith fae Leith says:

      Good point Clapper57

      i highly suspect that the rabble rousers do this because the public perception of Wings is that it’s home to vile cybernats & everyone there is foul mouthed blah blah blah, pick your BritNat description.

      None of them can be in the employ of the so called 77th, they are barely able to construct a sentence let alone an argument. Would you hire anyone who couldn’t produce the goods?

      The recent threads have gone through peaks & throughs with good conversation, links, IB’s prior quotes quiz etc. Then a morning or afternoon of bile.

      I’m sure despite their apparent banning, they will be back with new Nom-de-Plumes.

      PS is the FOW twitter down, i realise Scottish politics is fairly quiet just now, but haven’t seen any new posts for a while.

      On the care home saga, have we heard at any point from any public servant the most important point regarding Granny Farms?

      The fact that the majority are privately owned & it’s the owners who have failed the residents?

    342. MaggieC says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 10.01 am
      Found this re Johann Lamont and Only an Excuse , I think you might enjoy it . LOL

    343. Clapper57 says:

      @ Keith fae Leith @ 1.11pm

      Good points from you too Keith…

      Re FOW not sure if down… but someone else may know on here.

      Have a good day Keith

    344. Bob Mack says:

      Sorry Keith,but I hate the terminology of “granny farms”.

      It’s just their home.

      Every country is discovering that despite their best efforts the Covid virus breeches the card home defences, and they have no exact knowledge of why that is hapening.

      There are numerous scenarios, but what is clear is that when only one resident gets it, then inevitably many will follow regardless of what isolation steps you take.


    345. CameronB Brodie says:

      What exactly are you trying to achieve?

      global feminist responses to the COVID-19 pandemic: social justice and care are at the forefront
      The term “feminist” is used because it goes beyond working toward equality and rights of women. Feminist change means dismantling the patriarchal beliefs, systems, and institutions that oppress women, girls, trans, intersex and non-binary people globally. This includes the dominant economic system, which makes its profits from the exploitation of people and nature. Achieving equality within these systems is not enough. We want to change – indeed, transform the systems themselves

    346. Republicofscotland says:

      Robbo@ 11.44am.

      To add to that we have Ian union jack suit Murray bumping his gums again reported in the National on the Nike conference and a lack of timescale on a report about it.

      Murray would do well to do what he’s paid for and hold the English government to account, but he loathes the Scottish government that much he can’t help himself.

    347. Republicofscotland says:

      Get ready to gulp down that lovely chlorine washed (which doesn’t kill all the germs) chicken from the USA as the English government backtracks on importing it to the UK.

    348. Republicofscotland says:

      Lord Digby Jones has called a £100 million pounds of taxpayers money to be spent on building a new royal yacht named Britannia. Jones claims building it will boost the morale of the UK.

      Hip! hip! hooray! three cheers for the empire!

      After we’ve exited this forced one-sided union they can built as many yachts as the please.

    349. CameronB Brodie says:

      You appear desperate to prove you libertarian position, so please fill your boots. Full text.

      The New Legal Realist Approach to International Law
      The New Legal Realist approach to international law builds from a jurisprudential tradition that asks how actors use and apply law in order to understand how law obtains meaning, is practised, and changes over time. The article addresses the jurisprudential roots of the New Legal Realism, its core attributes, and six important components in the current transnational context. In the pragmatist tradition, the New Legal Realism is both empirical and problem-centred, attending to both context and legal normativity.

      What is new is the rise of transnational activity that gives rise to an enlarged scope of transnational problem-solving through international law in radically new ways across areas of law, and the growth of empirical study of these phenomena. The article concludes by addressing the potential risks of the New Legal Realist approach in terms of scientism and relativism, and it responds to them.

    350. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland needs to escape the racist patriarchy of Westminster, which has recently rejected Treaty law and the justice of the natural law tradition. As such, contemporary British constitutionalism supports far-right authoritarianism and denies those living in Scotland have a legal defensible identity and a right to legal rights. This can only be described as expansionist English nationalism that denies Scots access to human rights.

      For a truly realistic theory of law

    351. Joe says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Ah but you are forgetting this particular area of science in your analysis

      Care to explain your position while paying special attention to this? Or are you, as I suspect, unable to do so?

    352. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not an expert in constitutional legal theory, but I appear to be light-years ahead of the SNP’s legal advisors, Duffus and Dolt.

      Reconciling Positivism and Realism: Kelsen and Habermas on
      Democracy and Human Rights

    353. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not sure what your trying to achieve either, but here’s some international law anyway. Full text. 😉

      The Future of International Law is Cognitive –
      International Law, Cognitive Sociology and Cognitive

    354. callmedave says:


      I heard this announced late last night on radio 5 which hooks in with all the colonial stations throughout the UK at midnight.

      In the usual phone in, no caller though it was a good idea when asked and many openly hostile even though the host said it wasn’t for ‘Queenie’ herself but for trade mission initiative reasons. 🙂

      £5,000 per small business and more for larger businesses.

      Well it beats the old gunboat diplomacy

      Digby not been on big Auntie to encourage ‘the Nation’ yet that I’ve seen.

    355. Ron Maclean says:

      Interesting from – 04 June 2020

      ‘Independence! Nothing less! And nothing else!’

      Interesting comments btl too. Here’s your chance to get away from CameronB Brodie.

    356. Clapper57 says:

      Re Digby Jones new Royal Yacht idea mentioned by posters above :

      So his idea is that the UKnotOK sp**f even MORE money up against the wall ….perhaps he would also like a statue of Prince Andrew to be commissioned …..

      Will also add a comment about him that I made on a previous thread :

      “You know when Digby Jones was in HOL he insisted on having the same seat when he attended debates…so that he could get a vending machine installed (full of pork pies and buns for him to snack on) next to his seat…. to remind him of his schooldays when he was at public school…. where he was known by his real name Billy Bunter……i.e. before he changed his name by deed poll to Digby Jones….how TRUE that could be in a ROUND about sort of way”…….the only times he stood up to ask a question in the HOL was to ask the other peers if any of them had any chocolate on them for him to snack on….also could be TRUE in a ROUND about sort of way….

      Ignore him he’s another one trying to be relevant by making inane suggestions that he knows have no substance or truth…..
      (truth as in him stating that by doing this it will supposedly unite everyone in that fictitious state they like to call Great Britain)….’and some “state” it is in for sure….

      Digby Jones be like…look at me look at me….I NEED attention….blah blah blah blah etc etc

    357. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      There was me thinking you were open minded.

      LAW OF

    358. robert graham says:

      O/T Right on Cue , Larry O Flanagan EIS starting a fight before any grievance has been voice by Teachers , ok Larry you represent some Teachers , not all of them I point out ,but Larrys having a fight , what’s the plan Larry ? get your retaliation in first and have a go at the SNP because that’s the point really isn’t it , nothing to do with the Labour Party eh , As transparent as a bleedn window .

    359. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      It’s disappointing that you appear to be another who thinks they already know enough to defend their human rights. So I suggest you fill your boots. 😉

      Why customary international law matters in protecting human rights

    360. gus1940 says:


      Can anybody tell me what form of democracy (if any) existed in Hong Kong prior to the handing back to China?

    361. callmedave says:

      In the painting by numbers today the usual three nations posted but zilchon the….
      OH wait! darn Sarf fig just in on the News red scrolly thing.

      N. Ireland……today……01……..Total….536…BBC
      England………today…..123…… fig.. BBC +SUN
      UK……………non fig……Total.*40027..*SUN

    362. liz says:

      SNP supporters who cannot see passed NS will be the death of the movement.

      The number of excuses people come up with to protect her is nauseating.

      She was about indy today and said she was concentrating on Covid.Has she never heard of delegation?

      I know there have been allusions to her private life, which I don’t GAF about unless it is interfering with her ability to do what she was elected for.

      I’m sick of the NS can do no wrong brigade as she leads us all up the garden path, again

    363. Clapper57 says:

      Labour’s new Shadow DWP secretary states ” Welfare should be based on “what you put in” to tackle public mistrust”…this apparently is to instil trust in da da daaaaaa…WORKING..people…think they are going for the Gammon vote….see that’s your RED Tories there in action……AGAIN.

      Win back the vote in Scotland…aye right…sorry dinnae TRUST you.

    364. callmedave says:

      Jings! All the market gwaffs are green again as Asian, UK markets and now the Yankee Dow surge upwards without any visible means of support!

      Trump up early this morning (USA time) giving the good news that 2M+ jobs taken up by Americans in May. Only 20M more to get back where they were in January. 🙂

      Me I’m not complaining either as I have a ‘small holding’ (no euphemisms please) in stocks and shares. But Thursday’s child and all that, so not there yet! 🙂

    365. Fireproofjim says:

      There was no real democracy in Hong Kong prior to the return to China, as all major policy decisions were made by the U.K.
      However there was a fairly free local legislative council which ran local affairs and was elected by the people.
      The Hong Kong police were considered to be fair and independent of government and the Courts of justice were completely free of government interference. A fair trial and the possibility of acquittal were always part of the process.
      It is those two bodies which the protestors fear will be destroyed, and with good reason.
      No one gets acquitted in the Chinese courts. Arrest and charge are always followed by a guilty verdict.

    366. callmedave says:

      BBC gives today’s ‘official figs’ but not Total for England

      N. Ireland……today……01……..Total….536…BBC
      England………today…..123…… fig.. BBC +SUN

    367. Republicofscotland says:


      Re the figures Dave, LBC news openly admitting that England doesn’t include carehome/residential deaths in its figures, so the figure for England on a daily basis must be much higher than we think.

    368. Republicofscotland says:

      There you have it the few numpties left at Holyrood for the Scottish Labour branch office, prefer Johnson to lord over Scotland rather than Scotland becoming an independent nation.

      This is why we must give our list vote to the new independence party at Holyrood next year to further decimate the Labour/Tory and Libdem unionist branch office MSPs.

      “SCOTTISH Labour is being accused of turning its back on Scotland’s biggest trade union after it emerged the party is to harden its opposition to independence.”

      “Partick Harvie, co-leader of the Scottish Greens, hit out at Richard Leonard and his party after it was reported that his party is to use an upcoming summit to provide some clarity on its constitutional position.”

    369. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Gus 1940

      Good point Gus there was none. The English Government decided a bit of democracy was in order at the last minute to cause issues for the undemocratic Chinese.

      The U.K. cant help it got to leave a bit of shit at the end of everywhere.

    370. Breeks says:

      liz says:
      5 June, 2020 at 3:22 pm
      SNP supporters who cannot see passed NS will be the death of the movement….

      ….I’m sick of the NS can do no wrong brigade as she leads us all up the garden path, again.

      Brexit talks close to collapse… the perfect and timely scenario for a winner-take-all Constitutional ultimatum. “If you dare to complete Brexit without Scotland’s consent, then the Union is at an end”. Drop the mic and walk away…

      Scotland could actually trip on it’s shoelaces and fall down an Independent Nation, recognised Internationally, still in Europe, or at worst in a transitional status as a prelude to rejoining Europe… but unfortunately we’re being “led” by the SNP who’ll merrily latch on to any excuse to capitulate to Westminster’s authority and / or do nothing.

      You’re not the only one heart sick of it Liz. Parcel of rogues sums them up perfectly, but still there are those dumb enough to lap it up and do nothing, as Scotland’s ancient and lawful constitution burns.

      SNP? What a joke. 6 long years squandered, and squandered absolutely, EVERY opportunity blown, and yet they’re not even embarrassed. They’re even subsidising the BritNat Propagandists with OUR money.

      The SNP doing for Scotland what Labour did for socialism.

    371. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I don’t mind admitting that this post still brings a tear to the eye.

      Absolutely infuriating beyond belief to see where we are now when we were so so close.

      Can you remember how it felt that day? Seriously, can you recall that feeling? Because that should be incentive enough for anyone – to get back to where we were. And next time, we will not lose.

    372. Clapper57 says:

      The BBC’s new director general Tim Davie is a former Conservative candidate and deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party.

      We now go over ‘Live’ to Beryl from Bristol who said ” Oh no..not ANOTHER one”.

    373. Gary45% says:

      You’ve smashed the nail on the head with a sledge hammer.
      Yes I still defend some of their decisions, but will gladly criticise them for their now increasingly woeful fight for Indy.
      It now seems obvious for all to see, Independence is no longer the goal for this current group of SNP politicians, SG and WM included.
      Countless Tory voters now saying to me that they think Ms Sturgeon is doing a good job, personally I think that’s a good thing, getting another demographic coming on side.
      I am still a member, but waiting impatiently for a credible alternative.
      They need a severe boot up the backside from the electorate, but we have no alternative at the moment, and they know it. Do we shoot ourselves in both feet or cling on to the life raft in hope?
      Time is running out.

    374. callmedave says:


      If Hancock says “That’s incredibly important” once more I’ll scweem! and scweem!…OMG!

      He’s forgotten the question he was answering there and asks what it is? 🙁

      Ok enough lies about the ‘R’ value …washing the dishes must be a good diversion tactic. 🙂


      @Proud Cybernat….waves!. Yes I read that poll. 🙂

    375. callmedave says:

      “Why was Hancock on his own today most unusual” says BBC news reader.

      Probably because the scientists weren’t trusted to tell lies and / or refused to not tell lies if asked!

      Also the magic 20,000 deaths would be a good result is more than doubled! Bad news.

      That sorted it for you!

    376. twathater says:

      @ IB 5.02pm Ian thanks for that link , after reading through some of the comments I too have TEARS in my eyes , we were so , so close yet as many comments said STFU get back on your feet and let’s get intae them again .

      There was so much hope even with the disappointment and feeling of betrayal , but as many posted Stuart Campbell was unstinting , ferocious and unwavering in our quest for an independent Scotland and he surely must have felt the disappointment magnified

      Yet we still have people coming on here QUESTIONING his commitment to our cause by doing the very thing he excels at . INVESTIGATING AND EXPOSING

      By his forensic exposure and commitment he has revealed that the party of independence and the leader who is tasked to lead us there has been infiltrated , compromised and consumed by a group of individuals focused purely on policies which are reviled by the electorate , with the aim and target of independence relegated to the MUST NOT BE MENTIONED pile

      How has it come to be that a man who was so revered by many for his scrupulous excoration of the MSM’S lies and corruption is now turned upon as a rabble rouser by doing the exact same forensic exposure and excoration for the party and leader that WE placed our trust in to lead us to independence

      Is he to blame for the unending dark alley that we independence supporters find ourselves in or is NS deliberately manipulating and abusing our desperation for independence and using it against us . I know what I believe

    377. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Tarian says:
      19 September, 2014 at 7:21 am
      A lot of you need to get a fucking grip. Don’t let bitter disappointment ruin what you have achieved so far. You have taken on the monstrous Hydra of Wesminster, MSM and the corporations and have managed to win over almost half the population, particularly the young, and this is the future. This is not the end of the journey but a staging post. Don’t cave in and go to the dustbin of history. Get back on your feet and start pushing hard.

    378. Scozzie says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 5.02pm
      It is truly heartbreaking to read that post, no doubt. But the saddest fact is that Scotland bottled it, plain and simple. It was in the grasp of our hands, an opportunity to be independent to make all our own decisions, and we couldn’t get ourselves over the line. It shouldn’t even have been a narrow YES it should have been a big bloody resounding YES.

      And in these last 6 years, we need to ask ourselves WHY have we not turned the tide and pushed it forward – what lessons have we learned?

      Personally, I don’t think we’ve done enough to normalise independence as a concept. And what’s the barrier – confidence to deliver.

      The SNP, as the Scottish Government, with all the mandates granted should have taken decisions every time that were in the interests of the Scottish people and to hell with the constraints of the Scotland Act / WM – basically agitate and front up against the system. Act like an independent nation and your people may follow you. Hell, even your people may have the confidence in you to go it alone and be independent!

      Schrodingers Cat in a previous post about starting a list party talked about the need for trust in forming a party. You can have all the trust in the world but if you don’t have confidence in the party to carry you forward what’s the point? I trust my dog to be a good, obedient member of my family. Do I have confidence in my dog to handle my household’s affairs, hell no, he’s a dog. Let’s not be a puppy dog to the WM system.

      Brexit – what a shitshow! The SNP couldn’t have got that more wrong if they tried. Empty rhetoric nothing else.

      Independence campaign – non existent.

      Independence leadership – distinctly lacking. More interested in side issues like GRA etc.

      Build confidence in your people that you can deliver an independent nation and you’re half way there to winning round hearts and minds.

    379. Cuilean says:

      Edinburgh South General Election voting percentages since 1979. 11 General Elections.

      Edinburgh South tories are, surprisingly, very loyal. Since 1979 (forty years ago) tories have gone from 40% down to 16% in the 2019 General Election.

      That’s not as drastic as it appears. During this century’s six General Elections, the tories vote share has stuck firmly within a narrow range: 17%; 24%; 22%; 18%, 20% and 16%.

      The real turncoats in dinburgh South have not been the Tories but the Libdems e.g. their share dropped from 34% in the 2010 Gen Election to just 4% in 2015! Edinburgh South Libdems clearly despised their party’s ill-judged coalition with the Tories.

      In 2015, although 26% of Labour voters switched to the SNP (4% to the Greens), that huge switch 30% switch by Libdems to Labour enabled Murray to hang on.Murray was also assisted by the local & national press running a scurrilous campaign against the SNP candidate in 2015, in this tightest of margins seat.

      In 2017, the SNP did not campaign for Indy but to stop Brexit, so more than half Labour voters (who had voted SNP in 2015), switched back to Labour, and the Libdems also stuck with Murray to edge out the SNP yet again.

      Why the SNP did not persuade more Labour who voted SNP in 2015 to stick with them, should be of some concern to the SNP.

      Considering the Labour rump and the Libdem rump of Edinburgh South have circled the wagons around Murray, it looks like it would take an earth shattering event to dislodge Murray.

      Oh, Hello 2020. Covid 19 AND Brexit on WTO terms!

      In 2016, Edinburgh South voted 78% to remain in the EU. Mmm.

    380. Clapper57 says:

      Bob Seely Tory MP attended barbecue with Richard Tice and Isabel Oakshott……….hosted last month by Spectator magazine deputy editor.

      ” There cannot be one rule for bosses and another for everyone else”……according to Jackson Carlaw….thought there ARE exceptions eh Jackson….

    381. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t know if folk will remember me suggesting neither Brexit nor the GRA proposals could be considered proportionate, so could not be justified through constitutional law? Brexit is only supported in England, so the constitution is now blind to Scotland and the history of Britain. This is a state of legal authoritarianism.

      Making Interpretation More Explicit:
      International Law and Pragmatics

      Building on earlier research, the present article integrates linguistics and pragmatics into the study of interpretation of treaties in international law. This approach aims to make the reasoning of interpreting agents and their appeals to interpretive canons more explicit and transparent. This is consequently demonstrated with a number of practical examples in which the process of legal interpretation and its accommodation of the mentioned norms of interpretation can be adequately described and modelled.

      At the same time, it is shown that legal language possesses certain particularities, but nevertheless ultimately follows the basic pragmatic rules of communication. Nonetheless, linguistics and pragmatics can only provide an ultimately descriptive account of interpretation, so that evaluative judgements on the normative questions of how to respect the norms of international law still need to be made and – from a normative perspective – the rules of international law are not replaced or abrogated.

      international law – interpretation – law and language – linguistics – semantics – pragmatics – Relevance Theory – cognitive science

    382. CameronB Brodie says:

      And this is what British constitutionalism rejects absolutely.

      Overview of the Human Rights Framework

    383. MaggieC says:

      CallmeDave @ 5.43 pm

      These are interesting articles from The Financial Times , This was on Tuesday’s excess deaths reported in England and Wales .

      And this is also from F Times which is reporting world excess deaths and it was updated 23 mins ago .

    384. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B 5.02: sobering and sad, if only to notice how many great commenters we have lost. Some have gone on to Twitter and elsewhere to fight the good fight, like Tam Jardine and this much-missed pithy chiel:

      I remember on 18/9/14 being told to stop knock-up (non-sexual) mid-afternoon by Yes HQ and to “prepare for a historic night”. I spent the rest of that day and evening grinning like a halfwit outside a church hall in a tinselly mental state akin to a child’s Christmas Eve and first love, so sure the “leadership” must know something we didn’t.

      The Friday was crushing and I woke up to my family in tears about 5.30 next morning.

      I often wonder about that order from Embra and wonder if it cost us vital votes but, judging by what Buffalo Gal knew by 2300 that night, I guess the PV was gubbed anyway.

      And the author of The Vow is now a SG adviser.

      Fan my brow.

    385. callmedave says:


      Thanks for the link. Interesting graphs.

      No matter how they are drawn the UK is not doing well.

      Never look back, ask Lot’s wife. 🙁

    386. HYUFD says:

      Proud Cybernat Actually only 48% of Scots back Yes including Don’t Knows on that poll and only 34% of Scots want indyref2 within the next two years

    387. CameronB Brodie says:

      Do you actually think British constitutionalism can be morally justified, Toryboy?

      Between Normative Visions and Pragmatic Possibilities: The EUropean Politics of State Recognition

      During the last decades the map of Europe has changed considerably. New claims for independent statehood were brought forward and demanded for recognition. These claims had to be answered by the European Union and its member states. This article evolves around the idea that state recognition is as much a matter of politics as it is of law.

      It starts from the assumption that ‘who we are defines what we see’, claiming, that EUropean identity, the images the EU and the member states hold about themselves, shape the mental maps they hold of territories and space. Building on this identity a geopolitical imaginary is formed, which can be defined as ideas, allowing actors to ascribe meaning to territories, establish order in a seemingly chaotic world by means of classification and categorisation and allow to develop strategies for action.

      The geopolitical imaginary of EUrope contains the vision, that if all states were more like EUrope itself, the world would be a better place: a world determined not by power and coercion, but by rules, norms and values; with conflict mechanisms, not based on the rule of the strongest, but the rule of law; stability, created through common rules, negotiation and economic prosperity; and a determination not to let ‘blunt power-politics’ prevail.

      This imaginary shapes the way in which Europe makes meaning of claims for statehood and decides which claims to recognise as legitimate. The different elements of the imaginary sometimes contradict each other: law may have to take the back seat in the quest for stability or justice. Law is open to creative interpretations to allow the ‘right’ claims for recognition to prevail and the ‘wrong’ ones to be rejected The tool of recognition is caught between legal arguments and political considerations, between normative visions and pragmatic possibilities.

    388. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Scozzie at 6:11 pm.

      This wee paragraph from your comment jumped out at me.

      “Brexit – what a shitshow! The SNP couldn’t have got that more wrong if they tried. Empty rhetoric nothing else.”

      I saw Ian Blackford declare umpteen times in the HoC, “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against our will”.

      I thought, “He knows something that we lesser mortals don’t. Wonder what Nicola has up her sleeve?”

      Unless the ‘up the sleeve’ component has been temporarily parked because of the pandemic, I can only type that I was disappointed hearing Nicola’s speech at the end of January.

      We’ll see in the next few months. I wonder if the Edinburgh march/rally will go ahead on 3rd October?

    389. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @TC –

      Funny you mention ‘The Vow’. I scanned across that now-infamous front page earlier today.

      I wonder what % of political anoraks could now name who the signatories were, let alone whose brainchild it was. TBH, I can’t be 100% sure who The Three Amigos were. (Without checking, I’d say Miliband, Cameron and Clegg?)

      Going through the archives is something I only do occasionally but I’ve spent some time in there lately and it’s an interesting experience. It feels like a lifetime ago in some ways, and then you come across a comment which you can remember perfectly, even recall how you reacted to it at the time.

      But the mind does play tricks with Time right enough. It can be viewed as funny and weird, as presented by George Carlin, or it can be tragic, like when you catch a glimpse of yourself in a mirror and think for a flash that you’re seeing your old man, or it can, occasionally, throw up a wonderful surprise – that’s how I felt reading the comments on Sep 19th and 20th 2014. It really feels sooooo long ago. But it was only 272 weeks ago. Or 68 months if you prefer.

      When you consider how long some people have been campaigning for independence, that’s a flash in the pan. Sadly, we’ve lost a few of our own since then, and we’ll lose more before we get there. But Time is on our side and the unionists know it. They’ve always known it. The difference next time is that they now know we know it.

      Came across a quote recently which, for me, sums up this place, and the broader Yes movement generally. We really should be proud of ourselves and what’s been achieved. That’s why it’s all the more important that we protect that original drive and vision and passion, not allow it to be dissipated. No-one has the right to stop us pursuing this cause. We already knew that our motivation is just and decent but having come so close, and seen the direst predictions come to pass – just as this place explicitly warned – it has become, for many of us, a duty to follow this through right to the end. There is no option. We learned a lot from the last time and we have easily accessible records to remind us of how exactly we felt and reacted and behaved generally. That’s anther reason why this place is precious and deserves respect, not only from the mainstream media but the contributors themselves.

      We already have the movement. It’s still there. And if James Kelly’s poll is correct, it’s considerably larger than it was all those weeks and months ago. If that movement could be personified, I imagine addressing the following to him/her. (For a Friday night bonus, can you name the person the writer is referring to? 15 Bonus points if you can name the author of the extract.)

      “We are never likely to reach a time when we can do without his frankness, his energy, his willingness to join in. These are the qualities we shall go on respecting in him, whatever other conclusions we may come to. But they are real qualities only if they are independent and active. The thing to do with his work, his history, is to read it, not imitate it. He is still there, tangibly, with the wound in his throat, the sad strong face, the plain words written in hardship and exposure. But then as we reach out to touch him we catch something of his hardness, a necessary hardness. We are acknowledging a presence and a distance: other names, other years; a history to respect, to remember, to move on from.”

    390. Ian Brotherhood says:

      PS Very badly worded last sentence from me there. I wanted to say that the passage, for me, describes the movement as if a character. I wouldn’t be ‘addressing’ that personification directly.

    391. The World Health Organization (WHO) on Friday updated its guidance on the use of masks for control of COVID-19,

      advising all people aged 60 years or over,

      or those with underlying conditions,

      to wear a medical mask in situations where physical distancing is not possible.

    392. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Does anyone know who wrote this? For ‘real’? If so, could you ask him/her to consider writing an update for us on what they’re thinking?


      JRH says:
      19 September, 2014 at 10:34 am
      After over forty years voting SNP and trying to convince others of the benefits of independence it all came down to 15 hours of freedom before the “proud Scots” amoung us handed power back to the London elite.

      I admire those who will carry on the fight but for me the ship has sailed. From today my priority will be finding a new home in a country not full of spineless wonders who care more about Eastenders and Strictly than finding out the truth about their own land.

      We can blame in English incomers or the biased media but in truth the fault lies with two million who voted for a status quo which does not exist.

      Scotland is now at the mercy of the UK establishment who will take their revenge for our audacity.

      We will now doubt get the “new power” to increase taxes to help cover some of the reduction in the London grant which will surely come.

      Higher taxes here than in England will only encourage our best young folk to go south where wages are already better and so the circle of decline continues.

      If it was not so sad I could laugh at those “Better Together” idiots last night cheering their victory in securing higher taxes and poorer services for Scotlands future.

      I said before that the choice was between Scotland becomming a real country running it’s own afairs or a second class region.

      We have our answer welcome to North Britain.

      Good luck to all those who remain you will need it and finaly a big thanks to all who have contributed to this site over the last year of so it gave me hope that the impossible could happen.

      Scotland does not deserve you.

    393. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Just been catching up with a couple of Twitter pages I read –

      It would appear that there is an element of US law enforcement who regard themselves as above the law or, indeed, a law unto themselves.

      Yooz should have a look. There’s one on the msm_monitor page that shows a cop pushing over a guy (I think I read somewhere he was 68), who falls over and cracks his head on the pavement.

      Blood starts to flow but the cop just walks away. In the clip, you can see the guy’s hand letting go of his phone, obviously unconscious (or dead).

      Land of the free? Unforgivable fascist behaviour.

    394. Ron Maclean says:

      James Kelly’s latest poll shows 52:48 in favour of independence.

      We’re in the throes of a pandemic.
      We’re heading for an economic emergency.
      We could be taken out of the EU against our will in just over six months time.
      We have an unprincipled, suspect legal system.
      We have an untrustworthy, biased media.
      We have an SNP leadership growing fat on the profits of inaction.
      We have Holyrood elections in less than a year.

      Do we still want independence?
      If so, how are we going to get it?

    395. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at 426pm,

      I could not agree more. In particular, I do think, as you suggest the idea of simply stating Scotland is not leaving the EU, with brexit, and then as you put it ‘dropping the mic’, is EXACTLY what is needed. Preferably ten hours or so, prior to the dreadful hour. Call an international press conference – I am sure MANY from the EU would jump at the chance, and exclude ALL pro Brit-nat media, such as the lying BBC. If that leads to an immediate ending of the union, then it would be by London’s actions, Scotland would be sticking to its constitutional principles.

      As it states at the header on the twitter page of indy poster boy, ‘The union is an international treaty, not a title deed’. As such it can be ended by either of the two signatories.

      If only we had a leader prepared to actually stand up for Scotland. As others have pointed out, I expected more, given how many times Iain Blackford stated that Scotland would not be dragged out of the EU against its wishes. The way things are starting to look, it will be Wales and N.Ireland who leave first, not Scotland.

    396. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: 19/09/14.

      I still think this was the most iconic demonstration on that Friday evening.

      Having talked to them both at subsequent rallies, Glasgo Green and Holyrood, neither was aware of how inspiring their action was. Pic below was taken at the WOS stall at Glasgow Green, 18th September, 2016; “Dundee Annie” with Sarah Johnston.

    397. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Apologies for typo, “Glasgoh”.


    398. Joe says:

      Some fine posts here. But im going to have to say something that is fairly brutal.

      To expect Westminster (or more appropriately the establishment for whom Westminster is a customer relations department) to allow a country such as Scotland to split from the Union, creating a magnification of the economic problems Britain already faces, purely by democratic choice is to give them enormous credit. Because if they did allow such a thing they would be one of the fairest and most honorable institutions in the world. To simply allow approx 5m mostly ordinary people to walk away with the bulk of UK energy reserves (among much else)? Im not sure why Scottish patriots would think so highly of them?

      The only situation where I can see Westminster appear to capitulate is in a time of drastic geopolitical change where Scotland ceases to be a member nation of the UK and to become a mere region of some larger political pact to which Westminster has agreed (publicly or otherwise) – but Scots will still not have autonomy. This is not some underhand reference to the EU by the way.

      The world is about to see large political change over the next few years. Unfortunately the vast majority of Indy supporters are looking at things from a particular political lens – the globalist/family of nations perspective. This means that the rising discontent with the status quo in Europe (i.e yellow vests that ive never seen mentioned here) and many other places along with the populist parties that could well be allies to the Scottish nationalists are being dismissed with a sneer of contempt…because obviously we are better than these populist fools who want to control their money, borders and traditions. Right?

      The contempt that ‘blood and soil’ nationalism is met with is rather amusing to me. While I agree that such nationalism must be reigned in and controlled it is utterly ludicrous to pretend that blood and soil is not a part of any nationalism – otherwise you may as well just move to a country with a political situation that more suits your character since it doesn’t matter about the specific land, people or culture. Right? So obviously this is nonsense.

      But its this, in my view, that has gotten Scottish patriots nowhere. These lofty ideals made us allow hundreds of thousands of people vote against us in the Indy ref (EU citizens who didnt want Scotland to leave the EU on a ‘yes’ vote and voted against us out of sheer selfishness, probably before most of them went back home anyway after a year or 2). Similar with the plan that WOS proposed to do a deal with the Tories – which was met with such outrageous shock and horror it was pitiful to behold.

      My disappointment with the Scots isnt to do with independence – we are up against an entrenched and highly motivated establishment with vast resources and a talent for deception but without the burden of shame or morals.

      The yellow vests were out in Paris over fuel tax hikes for more than a year until Covid-19 seemed to quieten things down. People lost eyes, people went to prison. Every Saturday there were big marches and massive fights with police. Macron had to be escorted out of a theatre at one point. In Belgium they even succeeded in getting the PM to resign.

      The kind of legislation that the SNP have proposed should have any self respecting citizen ready to tear the Scottish parliament apart with their hands. If the Yellow vests in France and Belgium were out fighting for more than a year over unfair taxes what should we be doing about Orwellian hate speech laws and the infringements against women?

      If Scots cant stand up rigorously, in force, to the mere suggestion of these things and the betrayal by the SNP then they have absolutely zero hope against Westminster.

    399. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Joe (9.19) –

      Hear hear. Well said!


    400. Quinie frae Angus says:

      My what a happy improvement in the environment here BTL. I am enjoying reading the posts and startling to foment some thoughts of my own for the writing of!

      Hi to friends auld and new.

    401. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Big Pete on fine form here.

      He’d chucked it all in, what, ten days ago?

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    402. CameronB Brodie says:

      “The contempt that ‘blood and soil’ nationalism is met with is rather amusing to me.”

      Ethnic nationalism is incompatible with multi-cultural tolerance (see Brexit). We don’t need to be a bunch of racists to gain independence, we just need to get our government to respect international law rather than Westminster.

      Relationship between nationalism and human rights: A
      Macedonian case study

    403. Robert Louis says:

      I see the trolls are out again….Writing lengthy posts as well. Must be getting well paid by the 77th propaganda brigade of the british English army.

    404. Beaker says:

      @Ron Maclean says:
      5 June, 2020 at 8:55 pm
      “Do we still want independence?
      If so, how are we going to get it?”

      Put Cherry in charge. She scares the shit out of me.

    405. Robert Louis says:

      Ian Brotherhood at 0940pm,

      I have to say, I think what Peter A bell, said in that piece id EXACTLY what we need. It is independence, nothing less and nothing else. The dithering has to stop.

      Personally, I regard the need for independence as an emergency, given brexit and the Murderous Tory Government in London. It astonishes me, that the SNP Scotgov, don’t seem to have much of a sense of a hurry about them at all.

    406. Capella says:

      There are some very interesting and thoughtful posts tonight. But also a lot of nostalgia. It is sad that the Scottish people chose to stay in the UK in 2014. Understandable, given the level of propaganda everyone is subjected to from cradle to grave. The miracle is that so many are seeing through the delusion. The difference now is the internet. It’s the only tool we have atm because of the pandemic. But the pandemic will end.

      If there is an AUOB march in October then that will be a rallying point.

      But first we have to see Craig Murray and Mark Hirst through the legal battle. Alex Salmond may well get his book out. The virus has to be contained. But if football matches are OK then AUOB marches are OK.

    407. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B: I’m hopeless at your archive quizzes, me old haricot.

      Greetings, QfA. I keep trying to remember all the Brothers and Sisters of The Hairy String (like the phenomenon wot is Dundee Annie), sadly much dispersed nowadays.

    408. BEN STARAV says:

      IB @ 0502 PM

      From the euphoria on the Thursday to dark despair on the Friday. Yes campaigners will never forget those intense and opposing feelings.

      I wondered for a while why that Friday seemed so strange. It was as silent as an old Scottish Sabbath yet incongruously busy. Our heads were down but did anyone notice the strut of the victors or even their light hearted relief ? Were there any Unionist parties or celebrations that night?

      Anyone doubting if they had made the right decision by remaining loyal to the UK quickly knew their error. Cameron’s graceless and witless EVEL speech that dawn set the tone for all the betrayals to follow. The mask hadn’t so much slipped as been waved in the air.

      The silence that wasn’t grief was shame – the ignoble shame of being greedy, gullible, lazy, scared, stupid and selfish.

    409. Ron Maclean says:

      @Beaker 9:48pm

      Me too!

      She’s probably the strongest contender but she might be even more establishment than Nicola Sturgeon. She’s at pains to deny any leadership ambition. Janey Godley’s probably the second favourite.

    410. Joe says:

      So the question is – who is trolling? Me or the people who cant handle a difference of opinion?

      Sad people, but very good test tube specimens as to why the progressive indy movement has actually got scots further from independence than the day after the referendum

    411. CameronB Brodie says:

      Support for the continuation of UKOK, especially since Brexit, is an expression of English/British ethnic nationalism. The ethnic nature of this nationalism is unable to respect the rights of those who are not English gammons, or who worship Euro-scepticism. Support for Scottish independence is an expression of patriotism, which is a completely different kettle of morals.

      It is not possible to be patriotic towards a supra-national unitary state such as the UK, only nationalistic.

      Ethno-nationalism denies millions their citizenship rights – anti-racism expert

    412. The number of COVID-19 cases in the fourth-largest U.S. city of Houston has steadily increased since the state of Texas reopened on May 1,

      David Persse with the Houston Health Department told local TV station KTRK that he is concerned about the rise in cases.

      Persse also stressed the danger of COVID-19, saying the virus is still spreading in the communities in Houston area.

    413. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I was about to write a response to Joe but then became conscious of being a bit hyper, wary of posting too many comments too quickly.

      Things have been quiet around these here parts lately (relatively speaking) so it would be really nice if some ‘lurkers’ would consider chucking in a message, even if just to say hello.

      Go on – it’s exciting! I still remember the first time I commented. Mind you, this place mibbe wasn’t the target of British Army ‘intelligence’ brigades at that time so it did have a more ‘laid-back’ kind of a vibe about it.

      Anyway, please come in aw ye lurkers!

      Even one?


      Show yersel!


    414. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Quinie! And Chipmonkey yesterday!

    415. CameronB Brodie says:

      Don’t let Joe trick you into join the dark side.

      Democracy and Collective Identity:
      In Defence of Constitutional Patriotism

    416. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Or was it today?

      Time becomes irrelevant when you’re furloughed…

    417. ronnie anderson says:

      Tinto Chiel Dundee Annie’s no dispersed she’s oan gardening leave while watching her Grandsons ( she looks in here noo n again )

    418. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ronnie anderson –

      ‘The Tinto Chiel Dundee Annies’ played Glasgow Barrowlands in December 1979.


    419. CameronB Brodie says:

      ronnie anderson
      I hope we’re still talking and I hope you have a bit more confidence in me now?

    420. ronnie anderson says:

      Ian Brotherhood Dont hing up yer chaps just yet weil be riding the horse caw’d Independence Yipecyay

    421. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ronnie anderson –

      I will have you know, sah, that I lovingly oil my chaps first thing, every morning!


    422. ronnie anderson says:

      Cameron B Brodie Aye we’re still talking an yer still ah pain in the arse Stay safe .

    423. CameronB Brodie says:

      ronnie anderson
      Too right, I go all the way to up eleven. Take care. 😉

      The Teaching of Patriotism and Human Rights: An uneasy entanglement and the contribution of critical pedagogy

    424. jfngw says:

      @ian brotherhood

      I haven’t posted much lately, ran out of steam with the virus posts, but I saw you had posted about Peter A Bell. I’ve never met him and he can be ferocious with people but he wears his heart on his sleeve and you know where you stand with him, I like his up front honesty even when I disagree with him (although I don’t know if I’m brave enough to mention it to him when I do).

      Spent ages trying to decide whether it was worthwhile renewing my SNP membership, or was it just pouring more pointless money away. I did anyway, if no progress in the next twelve months then I will probably just throw in the towel.

    425. Effijy says:

      ITV News putting forward 13,000 plus English Care Home deaths
      Should also have been included in the Covid death statistics.

      So the UK figure is at least 54,000 Deaths.

      Looks like the Tories will need to kill the people reporting about their killing fest.

    426. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Another video from 19/09/14, from CBC News (Canada).

    427. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      And one from CBS…

    428. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      One more,

      Read ’em and weap…

    429. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Or even “weep”…

    430. Capella says:

      ICYMI Nicola Sturgeon says she wants independence as soon as possible. It’s the Daily Mail so you have to scroll down a bit to find the report from the daily briefing.

      BTW RScotland now cuts to “regional news” at 12.30 which is precisely when the FM starts her daily briefing. So when they go to the briefing her announcement about the daily covud deaths has passed. So you miss it. And they don’t tell you in the post mortem what the numbers are.

      That’s what makes the BBC a State Broadcaster as opposed to a Public Service Broadcaster.

    431. call me dave says:


      That report you mentioned.
      I watched that earlier so here is a snippet:

      ITV corona viris update.
      First bit world data then it is UK report on excess deaths England & Wales.

    432. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Louis

      Treaty of Union? A pile of antiquated rubbish anyway.

      The Articles of the Treaty were also incorporated into the Act of Union with England 1707 statute. Other antiquated rubbish.

      But, the Union operates on the basis of sovereignty of UK Parliament. Basically, we currently accept UK Parliament can make or unmake law for Scotland.

      You prove sovereignty by exercising sovereign power, no by waving a letter to the Pope from 700 years ago.

      It’s now that really matters. Sovereignty is something asserted and exercised, it’s no something from history. (There is no dispute anyway, that Scotland was a sovereign state).

      All it takes if a democratic mandate to declare: Scotland no longer recognises the sovereignty of UK Parliament: Sovereignty has been brought back to the Scottish Parliament along with our MPs. We are exercising sovereignty, self-determination and democracy.

      You don’t even need to declare independence, just a supreme parliament for Scotland representing Scottish sovereignty.

      The UK simply won’t be continued on the basis of Scotland having an equal say for the UK and a supreme parliament for Scotland.

    433. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Capella.

      Watch on Freeview 9 – BBC Scotland channel. Everything, right through to the end.

    434. Colin Alexander says:

      Sadly, Scotland’s politicians got sucked in by devolution and the indy movement went along with Salmond and Sturgeon spin about Holyrood devolution, indyrefs and s30s.

      And that hasn’t changed enough yet.

    435. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Yeah but Colin, We need a demonstrable majority of Scots to indicate support for the dissolution of the Treat of Union.

      How can that be achieved?

    436. CameronB Brodie says:

      Colin Alexander
      Treaty law is essential to the framework of international human rights, and both new legal realism and natural law tell us how to respect historic Treaties. Just because it is old does not mean it is not active and forceful. It is also part of international law, so Westminster is taking the piss by re-writing it in such a partisan manner.

    437. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT –

      Cheers for those links.

      Very hard stuff to watch, but we have to. It’s a kind of therapy!


    438. MaggieC says:

      If anyone wants to have a good laugh to finish off a Friday night , These are both from the Daily Record re the Labour branch office in Scotland. ,

      1st one is “ Scottish Labour to toughen up opposition to Indyref 2 “

      And 2nd is “ There’s no appetite for the creation of a separate state “ from Tricky Dicky Leonard .

      LOL LOL

    439. CameronB Brodie says:

      If only Scots law had gotten around to codifying economic, social, and cultural rights, then our judiciary might be interested in playing an active role in defending Scotland from Westminster. Unfortunately, Scots law is rather stunted in it’s development, so this might explain why some of our judges appear rather ambivalent towards Brexit and how it impacts on our human rights.

      Political Trust and the Enforcement of Constitutional Social Rights

    440. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, Westminster hasn’t re-written Treaty law, they have simply ignored it.

      Constitutional patriotism as a form of citizenship for the European union: recognizing minorities

    441. Capella says:

      @ BDTT – thx for link. I don’t pay the tv rax though so may be verboten to view. Stiil, RScotland should provide the important information rather than a lengthy account of Cove Rangers prospects post covid.

      OTOH The BBC have an intresting article on fishing rights post BREXIT with real numbers. Turns out it’s mostly the English fleet that’s foreign owned and that’s not likely to change.

      Brexit trade deal: Who really owns UK fishing quotas? –

    442. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      If you use a Mac, you can install an app called “Get iPlayer Automator”, which lets you download stuff from iPlayer, without actually going to the site.

      You can get it here:

      I use it regularly to download and keep stuff.

    443. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says at 11:37 pm

      “Yeah but Colin, We need a demonstrable majority of Scots to indicate support for the dissolution of the Treat of Union.

      How can that be achieved?”

      By the SNP’s Holyrood campaign essentially asking the Question.

      Who do you think should decide how Scotland is Governed?

      A) YOU : The people of Scotland

      B) THEM : The people of England


    444. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Last one from me today.



      Geoff Huijer says:
      19 September, 2014 at 10:54 am
      The people on here have been amazing; intelligent, supportive and informative.

      I admire those with the will to ‘fight on’.

      At this oment I don’t know what to do – it feels like there is no fight left in me. There is no protest viable either – I don’t buy newspapers, I don’t have a TV licence, I have no insurance of any sort to cancel and I can’t afford to shop at the likes of ASDA. I had a plate of cabbage yesterday and before that the last time I ate was Monday. I guess I have to swallow my pride and get to a foodbank. I tried once before but was told i lived in the ‘wrong postcode’.

      I have been living on HOPE – RLS sums it ‘to travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive’. There is no hope now. Another winter beckons of coats & hat in bed, in pinching my dog’s food and trying furiously to get jobs that either aren’t there or I have no chance of getting.

      Getting clean & sober 8 years ago was the start of a new life; a hopeful life, but this is a crushing blow. I can’t (won’t) even take anything to numb the pain. I guess they call that character building. Some people ask ‘have you not had pain in your life’ etc. Well, yes – too much actually; and this was the last vestige of hope of a future with less pain. I can’t even flee as I have no passport and am unlikely to be able to afford one.

      I should leave it here coz I’m rambling; stunned at people who voted for the continued demonisation of the poor, weak and vulnerable, the elderly, disabled and unemployed. Scotland the country died today & something inside me died alongside it.

    445. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Oh! Stupid me – “TOO” FUCKING STUPID…

    446. Beaker says:

      Seen a bit about haircuts causing a few domestics. Well, standing in the queue at Tesco’s tonight was some poor gent who may have upset his better half. There was a straight edge cut at the back, but at an angle of about 30 degrees. Shouldn’t laugh but what the hell.

    447. Confused says:

      maybe not best, but most important read of the day – (it’s all good)

      … none of this bailout money, none of this 10 trillion going into the stock market has any effect at all on the real economy of production and consumption. It’s solely to support the assets that are held almost eighty five percent by the wealthiest 10 percent of the economy.”

      – think on that when the tories try to lay the new austerity on you, and they will; expect to be guilt-tripped for that extra 20 you got on the universal credit, you freeloading arsehole!

      “other events”, almost seem like a distraction; like setting a bomb off – over there – while you rob a bank, over here –

      George Floyd was obviously not a Chris Rock fan –

      – the “knee in the neck” is a technique used by the israelis, now taught to cops worldwide. George may have been anti-semitic by claiming “I cannot breathe … ” so I would expect the soros street thugs to be called off very soon. “I cannot breathe … ” may also have been a dog-whistle mockery of the holocaust, which is unacceptable and problematic, especially if the policeman was jewish. Jews > Blacks, obviously. But choking out some palestinian woman, would be fine – unless she was trans, but it gets kinda complicated and this is why we need intersectionality, to keep our minds right and discount the varying levels of privilege.

      But anyway the important thing to remember is that –

      scots are racists and nationalism is especially bad because we are not multicultural enough and need to be vibrantly enriched by the diversity of england, by staying in the UK.

      – we also did slavery as well, again also problematic, and I hope Bella, the best indy gatekeeper in the blogosphere, takes the time to unpack this, to educate us all.

      I’m really sad, because I never saw myself – “that way” – still, the REV can always add WOS armbands to the merch and the Hugo Boss tailoring rocks. The next friends of wings meetup can include classes on cocking the spandau and feeding-the-belt.

      Sheku Bayou’s gang should be getting in on this – do a crowdfunder, but I think scotgov is just going to write his family a blank cheque anyway; lovely people those Nigerians, they just keep sending you emails – bless ’em.

      – in case any slow readers failed to detect the dripping sarcasm, there’s been a lot of fucking bullshit past couple of days, so to say it clearly –

      for any scot accused of racism or complicity in the slave trade, by the BBC, the indy wokists, the right on brigade, the english left, the indy gatekeepers – here is how I would frame it –

      “I’ve never owned a slave and you’ve never picked cotton – so fuck off”

      – do not be bullied and – kneel for no one.

    448. TJenny says:

      IB – Geoff Huijer’s post was very despondant and concerning, however I googled and there is someone of that name on twitter and who is also still indy and an author. I wonder if it’s the same person and things improved for him after that dark day. You might want to give him a tweet and let him know we’re all still here, well, lots of us anyway.

    449. Robert Louis says:

      I noticed this piece picked up on twitter, and thought it bore relevance to the way MI6 and CIA operate to destroy countries they cannot ‘buy’.

      I couldn’t help but think, when reading it, about what role such organisations are currently playing to destroy the likes of Alex Salmond and other indy supporters in Scotland.

      It seems to me, that in this world, their are no ‘goodies’ and ‘baddies’ anymore, so far as governments go. The USA and UK are no better than Putin’s Russia. They are all ‘baddies’ driven by capitalist greed.

      I no longer think their are any forces for good left in this world. As the old saying goes, power corrupts,and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If you want to watch it happen in real-time, right now in 2020, just take a look at the Scottish legal and prosecution service. Politically gerrymandered to the hilt. For London’s gold and all that..

    450. Robert Louis says:

      Confused at 150am,

      Worth re-stating, you closing lines, since some may never read them, and they are good;

      QUOTE ““I’ve never owned a slave and you’ve never picked cotton – so fuck off”

      – do not be bullied and – kneel for no one.”

      It is pathetic, the ways in which unionists and their BBC liars try to undermine Scottish confidence.

    451. Rm says:

      When Scotland voted against brexit that was the time to end the union, if this brexit is put back due to this virus Scotland will get another chance, but will they take it and why did they not take it before, something’s nae right.

    452. Xaracen says:

      @CameronB Brodie -Overview of the Human Rights Framework

      Nice informative summary, saved as PDF.

    453. CameronB Brodie says:

      You’re welcome.

    454. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland’s legal predicament is not that difficult to explain, so I’m just sorry it’s taken me this long to getting around to it. Ethical jurisprudence and law making consists of three strands of law; positive, natural, and realist (socio-economic). The weight given to each of these defines the nature and psychology of the law, and its’ potential to address the legal needs of the community.

      Brexit is justified entirely through positive law, without consideration to natural law or socio-economic considerations. As such, Brexit can’t be morally or economically justified in constitutional law. It is purely an expression of authoritarian English nationalism. Don’t let any so-called legal scholar try to tell you otherwise.

    455. Capella says:

      @ BDTT – no I use Windows now 🙁
      used to be Linux.
      You can use GetiPlayer on Windows but I haven’t used it since the licence was extended to iPlayer. I’m training myself not to want to watch BBC stuff.
      Still listen to the occasional radio though. 🙂

    456. Haagsehighlander says:

      10.10-pm 5 june

      I missed your comment last night,so thought id at least reply,and also made an arse of last couple o posts,(apologies Rev).
      so a very good evening to you all.

    457. Joe says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Good on you for dropping the constant links. I was wondering what your main gripe with Brexit is? Brexit in its entirety? Or is it just that Scotland is being taken down a path the people specifically voted against?

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