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The strongman

Posted on June 06, 2020 by

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    1. 06 06 20 08:56

      The strongman | speymouth

    448 to “The strongman”

    1. Robert Louis says:

      Brilliant. Expect the fascist president of the USA to use that phrase in his next speech.

    2. Stoker says:

      🙂 Thanks, Chris!

    3. Tony Hay says:

      Good yin Chris

    4. Muscleguy says:

      I like how the Erskine May is upside down like Trump’s bible in the vomit inducing, tear gas enabled church photo shoot.

    5. Achnababan says:


    6. Muscleguy says:

      The opposition at WM should utilise Erskine May and call a division as often as they can to bring the whole Ancien Regime crashing into the 21stC. WM set up devolved parliaments with electronic voting yet won’t have it themselves. Do as I say, not as I do.

      Fine, there aren’t enough seats, but we have portable computers in our pockets, there are tablets. Those in Portcullis House can vote without getting to their feet. Pairing would become much less common as those absent can still vote. It worked before, it can work again and go on working. But they are desperate to have baying mob of baboons (apologies to all sensible baboons) behind him as though that will save him from Starmer and the SNP.

    7. James says:

      Soon you will all have to wear masks.Then you can have a great laugh ?

    8. Al-Stuart says:

      Top ‘toon Mr Cairns.

      You have an amazing, creative, perceptive mind which, when combined with artistic talent gives truth to the mantra: “A picture says a thousand words.”

      “Posh Lives Matter” got me thinking of events closer to home. Maybe time for…

      “Media Lies Splatter”

      Or perhaps…

      “Nicola’s Salmond Plan In Tatters”

      Once the Coronavirus has a vaccine and/or HIV/AIDS style cocktail to remove its lethality, then a political McTsunami is headed her way.

      Just one of a growing number of examples””

      It is refreshing to know that some burning injustices are soon set to be remedied.

    9. `Posh lives matter`,

      I`m sure centerist Blair-lite Sir Keir Rodney Starmer KCB QC would agree.

    10. ian McCubbin says:

      What opposition only SNP act as an opposition. Wee Keir worked for the Tories for years,yeah ok he got a knighthood for pro bono work.Big deal I did 24 years trade union volunteering some of it pro bono.
      We need independence not reform of WM.

    11. The Isolator says:

      “You certainly won’t find me in disagreement with that statement” says keen socialist across the dispatch box.Snigger.
      On the mark as always Chris.

    12. Alasdair Macdonald says:

      This encapsulates why the blustering serial liar has insisted on Parliament resuming so that he can be cocooned within a howling mob, preventing any rebuttal of his inanity to be heard.

    13. Dogbiscuit says:

      Starmer lacks charisma he is a safe pair of Establishment hands.He also prosecuted innocent journalists.So Starmer has much in common with Sturgeon.Are you looking forward to mandatory face mask humiliation? By the way when people blame all white folks for their problems that is outright racism. Anyone bending the knee is falling for a false narrative created by insane self hating overpaid college teachers. Defend yourselves.

    14. Dogbiscuit says:

      Sturgeon is an insufferable virtue signaller who receives a ‘signal boost’ every time Antifa breaks an old ladies skull. Poor David Dorn murdered by Antifa looters. Any social justice Brownie points for killing copMs Sturgeon?

    15. ahundredthidiot says:

      6th June 1944 – D Day – many young men went to their deaths to start the end of the War to ensure our Freedom.

      Lest we forget.

      2020 – oops, COVID – we cant risk a couple thousand old folk, quick, let’s give up all the freedoms those young men fought for because of a wee flu.

    16. Joe says:

      @Dog Biscuit
      I will comply with a mandatory face mask. I will be writing covid-1984 on it in red marker though.
      Also Britain ended trans atlantic slave trade. British tax payers only recently just finished paying off the bill. BLM and Antifa are marxist operations and nothing to do with the well being of people.

    17. Bob Mack says:


      Those brave young men are now the old men who are dying.

      Perhaps you forgot.

    18. ahundredthidiot says:

      Bob Mack

      No, Bob, they died on the day, and in the months after until the liberation of Europe and even immediately after that.

      Learn to read words and what they mean together.

    19. Joe says:

      I am very happy to be white Scottish European. I am proud of my heritage. I have never unfairly treated someone because of their differences to me. I have nothing to be sorry for. Nothing to be ashamed of. We Europeans have a beautiful culture that is worth preserving and defending. Anybody who says this is racist is either clueless or a grievance monger. Fuck the race baiters

    20. Dogbiscuit says:

      At this time in 1944 the British 3rd Division was still fighting its way across the Normandy beaches.They’d have no chance without my granddads Bedford.

    21. Bob Mack says:

      “We can’t risk a couple of thousand old folk”

      Your words not mine.

      Heroes for DDay. Expendable for Covid.

    22. jfngw says:


      What a lot of crocodile tears shite to push your agenda.

    23. jfngw says:

      The message to Labour voters is if you want a Scottish Labour Party rather than a Labour Party in Scotland then you need to vote for independence, even if it requires you supporting another party at an election to achieve this goal.

      A vote for the Labour Party in Scotland is a vote against independence, a vote for a knight of the realm and a man in a union flag suit.

      I don’t think it is worthwhile targeting Tories & LibDems voters, they are the last refuge of the BritNat vote, a lot of effort for not much return.

    24. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob Mack the actual fighting for Normandy took six weeks .Most of the lads who landed on the beaches did not see the end of the campaign being killed wounded or rotated out due to nervous exhaustion. Stop using the old to justify your craven behaviour.

    25. ahundredthidiot says:

      Bob Mack

      ‘Heroes for D Day. Expendable for Covid.’

      Thanks Bob, I couldn’t have put it better myself.

      btw – how many of them do you think are left?? – I would suggest they have had a pretty good run.

    26. Bob Mack says:


      If any are left,and I would suggest there are, they owe you nothing. They would probably thank the NHS who they consider just as heroic as themselves. Capt Tom.

      You should be quite embarrassed next time you send your cheque to Erskine.

    27. jfngw says:

      My father who was in North Africa and South Italy during the war never uttered a word about it, he would never talk about it, I only found out the scant details from my mother. Unlike the following generations who endlessly abuse their sacrifice to make some unrelated point, it’s not respect they offer, it is exploitation of others bravery.

    28. Bob Mack says:


      They seldom do.

    29. Dogbiscuit says:

      All peoples have the right to their own culture. It is childish insanity to blame anyone for the mores of a past Age. It is astounding to me to see shallow white middle class assholes prostrating themselves like medieval Catholic flagellants. They are drinking kool Aide . To want people to prostrate at your feet makes you the racist. To assume people are poor or uneducated because of their colour is racist.

    30. ahundredthidiot says:

      The only dangerous virus running rampant in our societies is WOKISM.

      All those loonies banging on about how the Commies have infiltrated US society, are, unfortunately, turning out to be correct.

      Extreme Equality is now the driving force behind GRA, Hate Speech Law and criminal organisations like Black Lives Matter and Antifa. It leads to no make up or high heels in the workplace (and where’s the joy in that!!)

      Many learned people, consequently labelled ‘alt right’ by the Woke MSM (for example, Prof Jordan Peterson) have been warning for long enough that if societies pull too far to the Left, there will be a reaction to correct that, and if that pull to the Left is dramatic (which it is beginning to be), by the time the ‘Right’ get their act together, it will be severe. History serves as evidence.

      Both extremes are worrying.

    31. Republicofscotland says:

      On the money Chris yet again, meanwhile the new BBC boss, who’ll take over from Lord Hall is Tim Davie, a former Tory Deputy Chair.

      The English propaganda machine replaces like for like.

    32. Dogbiscuit says:

      Muscle guy politicians refusing to go to Westminster are refusing to do the job their being paid an extra 10,000 a year to do .I have family and friends unemployed because of this disastrous lockdown’ There is mounting evidence that virus is exaggerated and yet people still going along with it . You still don’t see the Governments political advantage over an imprisoned population?

    33. Tinto Chiel says:

      A very powerful image which shows both what a farce parliament has become and what a big coward Johnson is. Even before Covid, little constructive domestic legislation was done after 2016 because of the chaos of Brexit, although magically the Tories had a draft of what became the Coronavirus Act lying in a drawer should the need arise.

      Keir is Establishment through and through and the red tie (nice touch) is about as Labour as he gets.

      Meanwhile, Boris is going for an EU crash-out while no-one is noticing and the puppet-master carries on with The Plan:

      Apologies for the upsetting image above the article.

      Should we be worried?

    34. Dogbiscuit says:

      jfngw you abuse the rights and freedoms others fought for .Go fuck yourself

    35. ahundredthidiot says:

      Bob Mack

      I don’t give to Erskine – I pay taxes. Every pound donated is another pound saved by the UK treasury. All those charities are laughing at you. I give generously, but only to independent charities – not ones where the CEO is on a quarter million quid to never find a cure or actually help poor fuckers in Africa

      And talking of taxes, it will probably be insidious, but I reckon a 5% increase on basic rate in as many years…..or we could sell the NHS?? – I wonder how that will pan out – your NHS heroes will be subject to the same treatment as our Vets.

      Sold out.

    36. Republicofscotland says:

      First we had former FM Henry McLeish propose that Sturgeon should grow a backbone and head to the EU seeking an extension on the post Brexit deal for Scotland.

      Now we have a leading Irish politician Senator Neale Richmond, call for Sturgeon to work with the Northern Ireland Executive to put pressure on Johnson to extend the transition period. Let’s hope Sturgeon can year herself away from her wokeist mantra for five minutes and get the extension that we badly need.

      Hopefully we don’t end up with the usual crap of Blackford bellowing in the HoC that Scotland won’t stand for it dross.

    37. Dan says:

      Aye, posh lives matter so much that they have continually sent the poor into wars to increase or preserve their posh privileged positions.
      I’d imagine anybody who has experienced frontline conflict would be chuffed to sit anywhere on a boat to get back to safety, and not be so concerned about Port Out Starboard Home” seating arrangements…

      D day WW2 yadda yadda, obviously not dismissing it but there have been many more young lives lost and negatively affected far more recently in other conflicts, lest we forget them, if all lives matter.
      Some of those soldiers that have come through more recent conflicts are still having to deal with the multiple negative consequences of the experience.
      I just find the main focus and “celebration” generally always on WW2 a bit of a kick in the nuts / fannies for all the young men and women that have served more recently.

      And seeing slavery was mentioned up thread.

    38. jfngw says:


      I think you are projecting your idea of what others fought for because you like to drape yourself in unionism.

      P.S. It’s not technically possibly, next you’ll be telling me people can change sex.

    39. Sarah says:

      “Posh lives matter”…very good, Chris, thank you. Put a smile on my face on a dreich morning.

      The Great British Voter has been voting to be oppressed since forever except for 1945. If only the LibDems had agreed to form a Govt of National Unity when they had the chance in 2019, we wouldn’t be in quite such a dictatorship as now.

      As Brian DTT said yesterday, I thought a plan must be ready to unfold when Ian Blackford repeatedly said “Scotland won’t be dragged out of Europe”. Has anyone asked him why he said that given that it seems we are going to lose our EU citizenship?

      So what can we do? Holyrood is where we can have some effect but it must be now, not wait for an election. A recent letter in The National voiced my thoughts [that I have told my MP and MSPs several times in recent years] – Scotland is in danger. Risks of worse and current cruelties are too great so action to take back control of our country is a matter of urgency.

      In the current circumstances petition to Holyrood looks the quickest and simplest way to express our wishes for immediate action on restoring independence. Clearly such a petition needs a large number of signatures very quickly to achieve the impact we want. Has anyone here got the contacts to spread the word throughout the Yes movement for a] a draft of the petition and b] to gain the signatures?

    40. Julia Gibb says:

      Why do the SNP turn up? They give recognition to this farce by attending. They do not take seats in the Lords which legislates so why take a seat in the commons? Win the seats but do not attend UNLESS the vote is a critical bargaining chip. They will never know when the SNP could turn up and tip the balance.

      The only justification would be to disrupt the proceedings, to raise countless points of order, to use every arcane rule to cause maximum frustration.

      Turning up to play under their rules in the assigned role of court jester only gives ammunition to the Unionists.

      Focus on Scotland. Remember the objective is to END participation at Westminster forever.

    41. Dan says:

      @Sarah re. A plan

      I often go back to read the conversation that follows mr thms post with yesindyref2 re. Article 48 & 49
      Obviously things have moved on since that time but I’ve posted the link to the conversation previously to hear anybody’s thoughts on the process but it didn’t provoke any responses.

    42. callmedave says:

      Herald’s Tom Gordon reveals hospital-acquired coronavirus cases in NHS England THREE TIMES higher than in NHS Scotland

    43. callmedave says:

      Herald’s Tom Gordon reveals hospital-acquired coronavirus cases in NHS England THREE TIMES higher than in NHS Scotland

      Here is the link inside to the Guardian achived.

    44. CameronB Brodie says:

      I thought this was where we were heading thirty years ago. I just wish I’d been delusional.

      Political Jurisprudence

      I. Introduction
      Political jurisprudence is a discipline that explains the way in which governmental authority is constituted. It flourished within European thought in the period between the sixteenth and nineteenth centuries and since the twentieth century has been in decline. That decline, attributable mainly to an extending rationalization of life and thought, has led to governmental authority increasingly being expressed in technical terms. And because many of the implications of this development have been masked by the growth of an academic disciplinary specialization that sacrifices breadth of understanding for depth of knowledge, sustaining the discipline has proved difficult.

      Since we may now have reached a critical period in which the influence of technique threatens entirely to subvert the intelligibility of the foundations of modern governmental authority, it seems an appropriate moment at which to reflect on the nature and significance of political jurisprudence.

    45. callmedave says:

      Premature ‘release’ there sorry!

    46. James F. McIntosh says:

      I have great respect for those who fought fascism in the second world war I wonder what they would think of England now with its near fascist gov. Would they think their sacrifices have been thrown away and dishonoured.

    47. mr thms says:

      Publically asking for an extension makes sense, however is it what the Scottish government wants to happen?

      The dissolution of the USSR, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia was followed by a rapid expansion of the EU.
      Thinking about what Barroso said during the Scottish Referendum that Scotland could only join the EU under Article 49 and how Article 50, Section 5 refers to a country rejoining the EU under Article 49 it does not make sense for the UK to ask the EU for an extension. EU Law has been incorporated into UK law, and it makes more sense to leave ‘without a deal’. For example, as part of the Withdrawal Agreement payments in Scotland under the Common Agricultural Policy will continue until 2024, and under the EU Withdrawal Act 2018 most of the devolved powers the EU had responsibility for will return to Scotland. Some powers will need to be shared with the UK government (presumably because of international treaties) but even those powers revert to Scotland after five years suggesting new international treaties involving Scotland. A halfway house before becoming an independent state would be for Scotland to have Home Rule. Incorporating EU and UK law into Scots law is an indicator of preparations for independence.

    48. Joe says:

      A response I got this morning regarding the petition I signed to release the details of the investigation of ‘child grooming’ gangs:

      ‘Government intends to publish a paper on group-based child sexual exploitation this year, which will set out key findings of the Home Office’s work in this area and implications for policy.

      Child sexual exploitation perpetrated by groups is a truly horrendous crime that shatters the lives of victims and their families. We have heard of truly shocking cases of vulnerable children being preyed upon by ruthless predators and failed by the state and those whose job it was to protect them.

      These unthinkable crimes have had devastating impacts on towns and communities – leaving lasting scars that go beyond the direct victims, particularly where it has gone on for years.

      This must never be allowed to happen again. This Government has made it our mission to protect the most vulnerable in our society, stamp out all forms of child sexual abuse offending, and support victims and survivors to rebuild their lives.
      The Government will publish a paper into group-based child sexual exploitation in order to better understand the characteristics of group-based offending and help deliver justice for victims.

      The paper, to be published later this year, will outline the insights gained from this work and focus on how agencies can learn lessons from the past to tackle group-based offending and safeguard vulnerable children.

      The Home Office will set up an External Reference Group of experts to review the research before its publication.

      The work was commissioned by the previous Home Secretary to better understand the scale and nature of group-based child sexual exploitation, including the characteristics of offenders, victims and the context in which these crimes are committed.

      Last September, the Government announced an additional £30 million to take down the worst offenders and safeguard victims.

      The Home Office will shortly publish the first of its kind cross-government Child Sexual Abuse Strategy to improve the UK’s response to tackling this abhorrent crime.

      It will set out how we will work across all agencies – including government, law enforcement, safeguarding and industry – to stop offenders in their tracks, and to help victims and survivors rebuild their lives.’ End.

      The organised crimes went on for decades and statements made from the victims strongly suggest that this was ideologically driven which corresponds with the criminals who have been caught so far being approx 80% of a particular ‘group’.

      That’s thousands of girls who were ignored by police and politicians as they were used, raped, drugged and tortured with a number of them dying.

      Cries for help were ignored. In many cases when the police were involved the police would charge the under-age girl rather than the ‘minority group’ who held her.

      Now – obviously all you progressives will be aware of that and probably signed the petition – that i linked on this website. Right?

      I mean it is the progressives who are all about equality and protecting the vulnerable and destroying those who exploit them? Right?

      No doubt the hashtags, rallies and pitiful attention-grabbing outpouring of emotions are all planned for a date quite soon?

      Or are you, in reality, just narcissistic hypocrites who cherry pick their causes depending on whats trending on twitter?

    49. Julia Gibb says:

      I can understand the demands for the history of the involvement of Scotland to be taught at school. However it has to be in the context of correcting all of the Union “greed is good” impact on Scotland that brought out the worst in a handful of men (yes men).

      The clearances, the suppression of our culture and language the crushing oppression of a Nation supposedly in a Union.

      A poor Irish peasant forced into the English Army to feed his family does not mean Ireland build an Empire.
      Welsh bowmen in the English Army does not mean Wales tried to conquer the World.
      Scottish Lawyers stealing the land of their own people or a few Scottish gentry selling their nation to recover losses does not reflect the views of Scots.

      The history that should be taught is that the greedy will always take advantage of any people for a profit. Slavery includes those Scots shipped to Canada during the clearances.

    50. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Dan 10.41: re Dundas and slavery, I’ve always been amazed that his statue is still standing in Edinburgh, considering how oppressive his regime was. Scotland was a pretty effective police state, authoritarian, corrupt and vindictive and it was mostly down to him.

      It’s probably saved only by the fact that so few people seem aware of his dastardly deeds.

      Or give a flying fruit bat, possibly.

    51. ahundredthidiot says:

      Julia Gibb

      ‘yes, men’

      correct – all solidly supported by ‘strong’ wimmen

    52. ahundredthidiot says:

      Isn’t it funny how everyone knows who George Floyd is, but hardly anyone knows who David Dorn is…..

    53. Ron Maclean says:

      What did the SNP ‘achieve’ at Westminster?

      They clapped their hands. They sang ‘Ode to Joy’. They walked out in support of their leader, had a coffee, and walked back in. They sang a couple of lines of ‘Scots Wha Hae’. Somebody played keepy uppy and somebody else wore a football top. They made lots of money.

      Vive la revolution!

    54. dakk says:

      Re slavery, no statues in Scotland of this guy.

      Anti slavery and pro indy wouldn’t go down well with the great british Scots.

    55. Republicofscotland says:

      “Isn’t it funny how everyone knows who George Floyd is, but hardly anyone knows who David Dorn is…..”


      No it’s not funny and the death of Mr Dorn is also a travesty. That said American police brutality towards the black community has been going on for decades, the persecution of black people in the US overall has been happening for centuries, and before that the white man carried out probably the greatest genocide of indigenous people in North America the world has ever seen.

    56. Republicofscotland says:

      Ron@ 11.41am.

      Well said Ron, there’s no point in sending SNP MPs to that foreign governments parliament to give it the appearance of legitimacy over Scotland.

    57. Pete says:

      Weren’t we invaded and suppressed by the Romans around 2000 years ago?
      Maybe we should ask Italians to ‘bend the knee’ to us.
      All this virtue signalling is just complete nonsense.

    58. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one for all those who oppose “progressive” social policy, which is how the yanks normally refer to policy that does not support a right-wing agenda.

      Community, identity and the cultural space

    59. ahundredthidiot says:


      All correct.

      But are you suggesting we all then place our laptops on a high shelf and get down on our knees for 12 hours begging for forgiveness for our state sponsored white privilege?

      You miss my point – GF death was heinous and deserves due judicial process – no question, but the woke MSM is actively supporting riots and anarchy in the US, with the exception of Fox News. At the same time – Mr Dorns death (a far superior human character than George Floyd) is being buried by the same MSM.

      That needs to be given some thought – this anarchy is sponsored by some very powerful and rich people…..and they ain’t Trump supporters!

    60. CameronB Brodie says:

      That was some quality virtue signaling there but you’re on to plumbs with me. 😉

      Full text.

      The Oxford Handbook of Political Science
      Justice After Rawls

    61. ahundredthidiot says:


      one other thing – the killing of less advanced indigenous peoples and human slavery is colourless. History serves as evidence, whether it’s white Europeans, Mongolians, Arabs, Indian, South American and even African.

      It’s a HUMAN condition – homo homini lupus knows and respects no colour, language, culture, religion or otherwise. We do it to each other, the strong feed on the weak.

      The HUMAN respects only power and money therefore we get what we deserve – all we can do is try to create a society that minimises that.

    62. CameronB Brodie says:

      IMHO, that’s a rather pessimistic perspective you have there.

      Social Construction of Nation – A Theoretical Exploration

    63. CameronB Brodie says:

      Humans have immense potentials that are rarely tapped to their full potential. Public policy has an enormous potential to influence the way in which this potential is developed, and so shape the potential of future generations. So here’s why the law needs to be bio-neurologically sensitive in order not to support eugenics.

      Neuroplasticity, Psychosocial Genomics, and the Biopsychosocial Paradigm in the 21st Century

    64. Ottomanboi says:

      Regarding slavery:
      No apology from them.
      The fact that Prophet allowed the practice of enslaving non Muslims may have much to do with that. 19th c Sudan’s economy for example was built on aggressive slave trading.
      As the writings of Sir Richard Burton attest cruelty, racism and dehumanization informed the system in east Africa.
      Oman, through its links with the Zanzibar sultanate was a lead player.
      A new form of slavery still exists in the British allied Gulf states.

    65. CameronB Brodie says:

      Found it. 🙂


    66. Republicofscotland says:

      “But are you suggesting we all then place our laptops on a high shelf and get down on our knees for 12 hours begging for forgiveness for our state sponsored white privilege?”


      I’m not suggesting anything you are.

      “You miss my point”

      No I think it is you that’s missing the point, hundreds of years of persecution of black people in America is the point.

    67. Republicofscotland says:

      “one other thing – the killing of less advanced indigenous peoples and human slavery is colourless. History serves as evidence, whether it’s white Europeans, Mongolians, Arabs, Indian, South American and even African.”


      Indeed that’s true, but right now the focus is on America.

    68. callmedave says:

      Dundas St lots of those in Scotland.

      My first hoose was Dundas St Lochgelly upstairs flat via a spiral stair in the back through a close a two bedroom wie an L-shaped bathroom and a tiny kitchen.

      Big bedroom and living room though and a nice hall. When sitting on the urinal you could see only half the bath as the other half was roond a corner…really.
      Ex-Lochgelly Co-op. asking price £400 in 1967.

      Met the man in charge at the Co-op building and had the money in my pocket, I had been saving up for a while, but after a chat he refused the cash and sold me the house for the price asked but no deposit and no interest payment…. for £20 per month.

      “Young folk getting married need all the help they can get” he said wie a smile and we shook hands. I wont mention the number as it’s still there.

      Re-wired it and so on got Married 1968 March 30th.

      My wife to be was canny too, as that was the last day in history where the woman got back all her tax relief in full.
      Good old Harold Wilson!

      Jings! Wandered off-topic there, happy days indeed. 🙂

    69. Dogbiscuit says:

      When Scots first arrived in America they found a people already there which was inconvenient for the Scots settlers so guess what they did to their new Indian neighbours?

    70. Dogbiscuit says:

      Poor wee Scotland.

    71. mogabee says:

      That ‘toon says it all about Starmer. A shadow of a man in the same way that Ricardo Leopard is unfamiliar to the vast majority of voters.

      As for Johnson. Worst and most ineffectual prick ever and that’s saying something.

      Poor England.

    72. robert graham says:

      God what’s happened to a supposedly Independence supporting site

      I assume that’s the point I.E. how to get it

      21 posts check them out Scroll up

      21 posts of absolutely total shite

      People here are critical of Nicola Sturgeon doing nothing then proceed to push utter pie in the sky theoretical student union shite most of the posters need some serious medical attention ,

      CBB give it a rest with the never ending links I doubt anyone ever reads , ask a question get a fkn link in reply. You would ge more sense by attempting to converse with fkn WIKIPEDIA.

    73. Famous15 says:

      Dundas was possibly the First Secretary of State of for or against Scotland.

      No virtue signalling from me on slavery and no guilt either My forebears in Sutherland were treated just as badly.

      What I do feel is tremendous anger at murderous police officers in supposed Civilised society.

      Scotland is not free fromTHAT guilt but Police Scotland have put in place protocols to diminish harm but harm still happens but the next must be rigorous psychological testing of recruits..

    74. mike cassidy says:

      So now we’re venturing into ‘when do we reopen the schools we reopened and then had to shut again’ territory.

    75. Sarah says:

      @ Famous 15: “rigorous psychological testing of recruits”. And of candidates to be MPs, MSPs, Councillors. A handy first question would be “Do you want to be an MP or whatever?” If the answer is Yes then out they go.

      The only people who should be in government should be people like Dr Philippa Whitford who hated resigning from her NHS surgeon job and only did so because she thought Scotland needed her as an MP to fight for our independence.

    76. CameronB Brodie says:

      robert graham
      Are you the boss? Have you taken the opportunity to develop your understanding and skills? I’m not here to simply bump my gums.

      Citizenship and Identity: An analysis of Charles Taylor’s ‘ontological liberalism’ and Jürgen Habermas’s ‘discursive democracy’ as responses to the challenges of modernity and pluralism for constitutional democracies.

    77. Bob Mack says:

      This is an Independence supporting website. There is however no function for it at present,hence Stu’s holiday.

      Wake me up when the SNP decide to move. I’ll probably get diagnosed with narcolepsy waiting.

    78. Latest count of #COVID19 cases worldwide at 1000 GMT, June 6:
      World: 6,757,439
      U.S.: 1,897,838
      Brazil: 614,941
      Russia: 458,102
      Britain: 284,734
      Spain: 240,978
      India: 237,395
      Italy: 234,531
      France: 190,180
      Peru: 187,400
      Germany: 185,416
      (Data: Johns Hopkins University)

    79. dramfineday says:

      Nice one Chris!

      We must see if Starmer will be able to ask Johnson, over the heads of the riot squad, about the proposed increases in care home charges. Apparently required to offset the additional costs the owners have incurred (despite Govt assistance) regarding Covid 19 and now that the occupancy rate has fallen, the implied impact on profitability.

      PS since it looks as if the ‘wear a mask in shops etc’ is to become a thing, how about any of you skilled guys churning out some WOS and Hamish face masks? If I need to, I might as well wear one I’d like.

    80. Sarah says:

      @ Bob Mack: “narcolepsy”! That was the answer in a crossword in the National the other day. Are you the compiler or a solver?

    81. Sarah says:

      Face masks – our household have been wearing them from day one. Why not? And yes, usually in the form of a saltire patterned stretchy tube thing. Much admired, I have to say!!

    82. defo says:

      Quality work yet again Chris.
      Hanging around outside travel agents still mate?

    83. Beaker says:

      Great cartoon.

      Conflicting images from London. Hyde Park protest, everyone nicely spaced out. Parliament Square, like last orders in the Glasgow’s Central Station bar on a Friday. Be interesting to see if the R rate goes up in the next couple of weeks.

    84. Ron Maclean says:

      ‘ I’m not here to simply bump my gums.’

      Yes you are.

    85. Bob Mack says:


      A complier perhaps, but not a compiler.Smiley thing!!

    86. willie says:

      Oh dear, the cartoon nails exactly what we all fear.

      A political police force ready and capable to brutally crush any and all political expression or dissent.

      Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Mark Hirst and indeed the taking into custody of the Rev Stu some time back for questioning about alleged online intimidation – its all out of the same play book.

      Or the police cautioning of AUOB organisers like Manny Singh or the guy in Aberdeen whose name escapes me. These individuals too attracted police attention for alleged civic misdemeanours.

      Or the kettling of demonstrators on a march as happened some years back in Glasgow.

      All tactics of a police force willing and able to break the law and heads at the same time.

      Intimidation pure and simple. Meanwhile Chief Constable Iain Livingston said yesterday Police Scotland have a duty to ensure that peoples voices can be heard and that it is a fundamental principal that an police fore represents the society that they are drawn from.

      Aye right – tell that to the Alex Salmond, Craig Murray or Mark Hirst ( or the favoured elites like Cummings, Prince Charles et al who are exempted from prosecution when they break the law.

      Or better still Chief Constable Livingston, tell that to the Alex Salmond political police unit.

    87. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      I’m pretty sure there are readers who would disagree with your opinion.

      Populism and Constitutionalism: An Essay
      on Definitions and Their Implications

    88. Lachlan MacCuish says:

      Julia Gibb: 6 June, 2020 at 11:17 am

      There is a long history of peoples overtaken by a larger neighbour, then taking up the cudgels on behalf of their oppressor and visiting pain and subjugation on their own peoples and other peoples next inline for colonisation, plus assimilation, and so on.

      Scots and our Irish cousins are no different, the savagery Scottish regiments meted out to civilians across the world to serve London’s elite should be a badge of shame, not pride. The end game is that the oppressed twig they have been used, sides form and people turn in on themselves, emphasising the oppressor’s depth of reach and control.

      Every empire goes though this cycle, with the british empire, so many examples exit, e.g. Indian sub continent, inc. Burma, Ireland, African colonies, Middle Eastern Colonies, etc. The british used Indian against Indian, Hindu against Muslim, rich against poor and cast against cast, divide and rule which can be co-ordinated by siding with one against another and using you’re your technological superiority to brutal effect and little human cost to you.

      The point where people twig they have been conned is where we are now in Scotland. Turning in on each other provides cover for England to maintain control for a while longer and to set the conditions for our independence. Their objective being minor disruption to them, disruption happens in Scotland and we have been made an example of.

      Where Scotland should be different is that we have the presence of mind and trusted leadership not to turn on each other as we part ways with our occupier. We also have the EU should we need a friend! However, it will take patience, restraint and discipline. Turning in on ourselves as some on here seem to be cultivating, serves no one except those who would seek to keep Scotland trapped in this toxic union. If a persons’ motives appear questionable or conditional towards independence they probably are, ignore peripheral discussions that seek to divide and above all else, concentrate on the goal!

    89. Ron Maclean says:

      Isn’t it disgraceful that since the publication of the ‘Open Letter’ by ‘The National’ and an article in ‘The Scotsman’ by Kenny MacAskill MP there has been silence.

      I wouldn’t expect more from the creeps of the MSM. Surely by now we should have had a statement from the First Minister and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice.

    90. callmedave says:

      BBC reporting some numbers but none for darn Sarf as usual.

      N. Ireland…….01……..Total…..537…BBC
      England………(litter in Yorkshire news)…..

      Numbers may go up later at the briefing. 🙁

    91. callmedave says:

      Hark the Herald! says Monica!

      Pathetic political opportunism to score points over SNP with unreliable death statistics.

    92. ahundredthidiot says:

      callmedave @2:49

      and still not at 2015’s 44,000 excess deaths (directly and indirectly attributed to a particularly nasty flu season, mostly over a 12 week period)

      what a lotta nonsense this thing is – gotta be the biggest scam since the Iraq War.

      It’s not a pandemic, it’s a very naughty virus!

    93. Doug says:

      Starmer is just another English/British nationalist who takes every opportunity to do down Scotland.

    94. ahundredthidiot says:

      republicofscotland at 1:02

      So long as we can agree that anti-Trump activists are all woke racists in their hatred of all things ‘white’, I’m happy with that.

      This is where wokism goes in the end – in its futile attempt to make everything equal the peoples of the past must ATONE (however impossible as they’re all deid!). Tear down their statues the mob cry!

      And if you happen to be the same colour, then you too MUST ATONE – GET ON YOUR KNEES AND ATONE!

      Cops getting on their knees for the mob is the very definition of anarchy. The MOB will NOT be appeased.

      rubber bullets anyone??

    95. MADRID, June 6

      People who do not wear a face mask in closed public areas will face fines of up to 100 euros,

      according to the Spanish government’s draft plans appearing in several Spanish newspapers on Saturday.

    96. bipod says:

      Its great to see that so many people are disobeying the ridiculous lockdown rules and attending protests around the UK in the thousands. Remember last month when there was a furious media and public reaction to the lockdown protests? Some people on this site even demanding that the people attending be refused any NHS treatment if they became ill, yeah they seemed to have shut up now.

      It is now looking like the people will need to drag this country out of lockdown, because if it is left to NS we will have restrictions in some form for the rest of year.

      There is some interesting research out there now that suggests that having had the common cold may provide some immunity to covid 19, if so this could mean that the estimates that up to 80% (which drove the 500,000 deaths if no lockdown prediction) of the population could catch covid was always a ridiculous exaggeration. Second peak is a myth with no scientific basis.

    97. CameronB Brodie says:

      “So long as we can agree that anti-Trump activists are all woke racists in their hatred of all things ‘white’, I’m happy with that….”

      I’m strongly against Trump. I’m also strongly anti-woke and strongly anti-racist. I also view multi-cultural tolerance from a critical perspective, so I understand ‘white resentment’. So from my perspective, you either don’t have a clue or you’re deliberately trying to mislead the readers.

      Democracy’s Identity Problem: Is Constitutional Patriotism the Answer

    98. Josef Ó Luain says:

      The unfocused fury and frustration expressed by some on this pro-Scottish Independence site makes me feel very sorry, indeed, for the poor souls who are forced to live with them.

    99. Bob Mack says:

      @Josef O luain,

      They are just white noise Josef. No lodge to attend due to covid, so spend their time here.

      Just take them as an example of the unthinking we try to communicate with. Pointless really.

    100. Willie says:

      On an entirely different tack John Swinney yesterday issued a letter to all the heads of education in the various local authorities across Scotland whereafter the GTC forwarded it to teachers

      A link to this correspondence is attached below. and from this correspondence one can see that it relates to the resumption of schools on the 11th of August 2020.

      Under notes is a link to the letter.

      The matter of the resumption of teaching is a huge issue because the current Scottish Government proposal is for ‘ blended teaching ‘ whereby teaching at school will be for two days only with the other three days being based upon school children working at home.

      At a stroke this, however carefully it is said to have been prepared is something that has the potential to educationally blight a generation of school children for life. Three days not at school but sitting st home working is no substitute for teaching.

      There is also a patent unfairness in it when children identified as disadvantaged, or children lucky enough to have a parent or parents identified as key workers, will be entitled to five days teaching.

      Surely all children should be entitled to five days schooling – and not just those classified as being disadvantaged or lucky enough to have parents classified as key workers.

      No doubt there will have been much thought put into this. But John Swinney letter very much obfuscates what the proposals are going to be. But st the heart of this distancing seems to be the driver and to achieve that the direction seems to be two times two days teaching for split classes with the Wednesday reserved for teacher preparation and marking.

      But is this the only way schools cam make things work by more than halving the teaching time to accommodate smaller better spaced class rooms and pupil movements.

      Schools are all different in their complexion be it in class sizes, numbers for particular subjects, school building configurations, teacher availability and so on.

      I am not an educationalist and I can appreciate the challenges of timetabling and so on. But starting from the premise that teaching due to social distancing is now to be a split two times two day arrangement with a Wednesday in between for teachers to mark and or prepare, I really do wonder if this is the right approach.

      If space in classrooms, and to a lesser extent space during pupil movements, is the criteria, how can it not be managed in other ways.

      If space could be increased, could bigger classrooms with better spacing not be achieved.

      Most schools, especially new ones, have gym halls, have assembly areas, have pupil congregation areas. have cafeteria. With the judicious use of temporary screening and partitioning could these areas not be used to create bigger adequately spaced class rooms. Or what about portion removal or bringing in more supply teachers, or the use of annex buildings such as community buildings as annexes for particular subjects.

      Or could increased air changes through the HVAC system where available, or the use of masks not also be considered.

      Orr what about extending the school day Monday to Thursday by say 45 minutes and reducing period times by five or ten minutes. That would increase the number of periods, and together with a lunchtime finish could facilitate full time teaching st school.

      Or what about more supply teachers. Many teachers have also retired early. Could some of them not be encouraged back.

      One size certainly does not fit all. Schools have been suspended for a long time now, and surely the criteria has to be to maximise teaching time to four or five days.

      And yet, three months into school suspensions there has been no public debate, and certainly no public choice..

      Well it’s high time there was debate, and who is it in the Scottish Government that says your child can get five days teaching and another parents will get two. And who is it in the Scottish Government that says one size fits all.with potentially all schools operate two day teaching regimes with five for special children.

      High time there was debate. Central government have hogged this agenda for too long. Time the public were involved. Our children’s future depends on this.,_Education_staff,_Directors_of_Education_and_CERG_-_Advice_on_priorities_for_teachers_and_other_school_staff_-_June_2020.pdf

    101. @Josef Ó Luain says:
      6 June, 2020 at 4:42 pm

      The unfocused fury and frustration expressed by some on this pro-Scottish Independence site makes me feel very sorry, indeed, for the poor souls who are forced to live with them.

      Nobody is forcing anybody to be here against their will. What political party has been campaigning for independence over the last 5+yrs? I have seen none.

    102. Tinto Chiel says:

      @dakk 11.57: thanks for that great info on Thomas Pringle and slavery.

    103. Republicofscotland says:


      Indeed Ron it is disgraceful, it reminds me of the recent Panorama programme that exposed the English government on PPE. They downgraded the virus in order to purchase less PPE, and a fair bit of the PPE they did obtain was cleaning equipment and not PPE, though they told the media it was PPE.

      The next day the media reported nothing on it, it was as if it didn’t happen, tumbleweed and silence was the order of the day.

      Expect the same tumbleweed and silence from the Scottish government and the judiciary on the Craig Murray, Mark Hirst fit up, and the relentless pursuit of Alex Salmond.

    104. Beaker says:

      When are people going to get it into their fucking heads that the lockdown is to slow the spread of the virus, and to avoid overwhelming the NHS.

      Stop being selective with stats. The excess deaths are way above the 5 year average, which is a more accurate representation. I know what I’m talking about; I’ve been in that line of work for over 30 fucking years.

    105. callmedave says:


      German and Austrian football a bit dull so is the snooker and my parcel delivery hasn’t arrived yet.

      For those interested enough. 🙂

      Robert Peston

      Can Britain avoid a second lockdown?
      6 June 2020, 2:19pm

    106. Ron Maclean says:

      @Josef Ó Luain

      Have you tried ‘The People’s Friend’?

    107. bipod says:

      Lockdown supporters insist that we need a lockdown right now because it is not the flu and it doesn’t care about seasonality, but then say that we may need another lockdown in the autumn/winter (its unlikely this farce will have ended by then anyway given the behaviour of NS) because thats when the second wave will really come, which is a theory based on the seasonal dynamics of the flu. Anyone else find that odd? Maybe they are actually just making this up as they go along.

    108. Pete says:

      Okay, I accept you have experience in this line of work.
      Tell us then , is it or is it not the case that the hospitals in Scotland are more empty than full and that none of the excess capacity recently installed is being used?

    109. ahundredthidiot says:

      Beaker @ 5:32

      the hospitals lay empty, mortuaries were not overwhelmed, staff were given paid days off – the impact of Coronavirus is the same as seasonal flu.

      there will be no second wave – it’s gone, passed through and away.

      what we will have is delayed lockdown deaths as cancer/heart issues were overlooked, combined with normal seasonal flu, to ‘justify’ the second wave.

      30 years in the trade and I am guessing you haven’t really learned anything – you’ve been scammed, hard to admit, I know, but a scam nonetheless, sooner you admit that to yourself, the sooner your anger will dissipate.

    110. Tinto Chiel says:

      An early Scots law ruling on slavery:

    111. ahundredthidiot says:

      Pete @ 5:52

      It’s actually worse than that – mortuaries are so empty that normal day to day ‘business as usual’ mortuary space, is actually being scaled down to SAVE ENERGY!

      You would think this would be GOOD NEWS!

      No, not for our lockdown terrorists – and I do not use that term in jest, they are actually now championing state sponsored murder – and I do not say that lightly either because they (Governments) now have all the operational data and are CHOOSING to ignore it.

      The Tories down south are smart enough to see that there could be a reckoning and are moving swiftly – not our wee dictator though, she seems to be loving lock down Scotland…….damaging our cause for Independence along the way – perhaps deliberately.

    112. Famous15 says:

      Why are so many apparently articulate people so stupid?

      Because they are not but have an anti indy agenda.


      Independence must be getting closer!

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      We appear to be up to our elbows in crocogator.


    114. Joe says:

      Seeing an unusual amount of common sense being posted. Bravo.

      The alarm clock is about to go off in the US and a lot of people will start waking up. It will be painful. What a ride this has been.

    115. Fireproofjim says:

      Now you are an expert of virus epidemics. Gosh you are so brilliant. There will be no second wave you say. It’s gone and won’t come back. It’s so comforting to have geniuses like you around.

    116. callmedave says:

      James Kelly releasing two more of his poll questions later tonight

      You can hear which two here:

    117. Ron Maclean says:

      Tom (Lord) Bingham’s ‘The Rule of Law’ is a better read than the convoluted irrelevancies usually posted on this site.

    118. ahundredthidiot says:


      As much an expert as the idiot paid for scientists currently running the show at SAGE. Maybe you should look up their track record before subscribing to things like a ‘second wave’ or their ‘R factor’ – both conclusions gotten to by consensus – not science, just their opinion.

      Think about that for a second. Your freedom has been taken away on someones OPINION.

      And don’t get me started on ‘prof’ Leitch – he’s a fucking dentist…..

    119. Colin Alexander says:

      I don’t understand the ripping into British Labour as being pish compared to the SNP. Try looking at it from this angle:

      British Labour in Scotland’s, No.1 policy: keep the Scotland colony under British rule:

      100% success rate for 100 years approx.

      Compare this with the SNP:

      SNP, No.1 policy: independence for Scotland:

      0% success rate in 70 years approx.

      Even the colonial parliament is a Labour scam which the SNP have taken to like pigs to swill.

    120. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      You what? Can you provide counter argument rather than unjustified rejection?



    121. Colin Alexander says:

      As for the SNP stop giving fake credibility to the Imperial Parliament:

      Even the risk of killing themselves and others could not keep the SNP MPs away from the Imperial Parliament.

    122. ahundredthidiot says:


      You can keep your fake news, but maybe you can show me the ONS data for the 13 year old who died ‘alone’ on April 1st?

      Maybe Check March and April……just to be sure like.

      mystery isn’t it…….

    123. defo says:

      11/123 !
      Enough already

    124. Pete says:

      Not clear that the hundreds of deaths were in the UK as they talk about Kuala Lumpur , etc.
      Please explain further.

    125. Liz g says:

      Famous 15 @ 6.11
      Oh I very much think so..
      The desperation is palpable…

    126. robbo says:

      Idiot and pete

      Fake news- ah the old DT deflect. Pair o roasters.

      Seems you 2 canny read eh .Must be pongo’s

    127. Bill Hume. says:

      Well, hasn’t Wings BTL become a seething cesspit of unionist trolls. I must admit I’m rather encouraged by that as we must be getting under their skin and causing a deal of irritation.
      That said, I’d like to make a wee point that occured to me just recently.

      Stop talking about unionist ‘attacks’ on the independence movement……they are not attacks.
      Let me explain. The Scottish independence movement is going onward, slowly (Too slowly for my personal liking I must confess) but surely.

      These ‘attacks’ from the Unionist MSM are no such thing.
      They are desperate rearguard actions from a side in retreat.

      So could we not, in future, describe them as attacks. They are the final futile actions of a dying era.

    128. defo says:

      What happens when an indy Scotland becomes a full member of the EU, 4 freedoms and all?

      FWIW, i feel a land border isn’t really feasible, unless Priti & pals want to spend billions upon billions. ID cards will be required.

      Their problem, like Trident?

      Their solution? No indy, at all costs.

    129. Liz g says:

      Bill Hume @ 8.40
      I’d not say futile…I’d say rancid…
      But I don’t concern ma self….we’re all right here and wee see them, we’ve said so often enough….. Ye canny fix stupid!

    130. robbo says:


      You read through at least 20 para’s to get to anything said about US states or Singapore,where they report same data

      Sad man

    131. Liz g says:

      Why are the London Police keeping a small group of demonstrators at the cenotaph?

    132. jfngw says:


      Pete,bipod,the dug,the idiot,misty, here they are ‘We Five’, the dog is quite a singer though.

    133. Colin Alexander says:

      But, the SNP could learn from past mistakes.

      Playing the “UK Parliament is sovereign” British Imperial game is a dead end.

      Opinion polls are consistently showing support for indy is high. That means there is little to zero chance of a repeat of any WM approved indyref.

      The fundamental issue is: as Breeks would put it: Sovereignty belongs to the people.

      Or as it says in George Buchanan’s famous work :DE JURE REGNI APUD SCOTOS. OR A Dialogue, concerning the due Priviledge of Government in the Kingdom of Scotland:

      “… the People have power to conferre the Government on whom they please”.

    134. Katie says:

      Wait a minute…. hud the bus etc…. now dont get me wrong.. im no racist… but if black lives matter and its all cool from them to protest n cause havock in the streets and god forbid not socially distance…. then do scotttish lives matter and is it ok for us to march for freedom again in a peaceful manner? Or do we have to still live with the same old jock/sweaty socks ‘so called just banter’ forever …. just sayin!!

    135. ronnie anderson says:

      liz g cause they canny get enough war veterans tae attend lol

    136. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Regarding slavery:

      Scumbag Tax Dodgers who employ folk on Zero Hours contracts don’t discriminate by skin colour

    137. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Regarding The Leader of ‘The Workers Party’ Sir Kier Starmer:

      “when the SNP proposed an investigation into Blair’s apparent lying in the run up to the war – bolstered by findings from the Chilcot report – Sir Keir voted against it.”

      He also voted for Trident in 2016, and worked tirelessly to secure Labour’s support for the Investigatory Power Bill, which expanded state surveillance and authorised the bulk collection of digital communications.

      As DPP, Sir Keir tempered his love of liberty by fast-tracking the extradition of Julian Assange (a process now making its way through the courts). He flouted legal precedents by advising Swedish lawyers not to question Assange in Britain: a decision that prolonged the latter’s legal purgatory, denied closure to his accusers in Sweden, and sealed his fate before a US show trial.”

      That’s before you look at his connections to Israeli lobbyists a personal donation of £50,000 from Sir Trevor Chin who has made donations to many leading Labour figures in the past including Tony Blair and Tom Watson!

      And this from Starmer himself “I said it loud and clear — and meant it — that I support Zionism without qualification.”

      BritNat Labour is the UK Establisments B-Team and they are being rehabilitated in the public consciousness via the BBC/MSM in preparation to replace the Tories, lest real change occurs which threatens their place at the top of the greasy pole!

      Note the constant media attacks on Labour have stopped now Corbyn has been binned and a self confessed Zionist (link above) Neo-Con has been installed as Leader.

    138. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Regarding the BTL Bullshit Trolls:

      I can’t believe they are allowed to continue to pollute the Rev’s Blog whilst folk like Heedtracker got barred!

      Even Cactus’s weekend shenanigans were more informative and entertaining 🙂

    139. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Comment at 10:13pm awaiting moderation Rev.

      Can’t see any banned words or contentious content.

      I’d prefer it got approved but will bow to your judgement as site Owner and Moderator.

    140. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Jockanese Wind Talker –

      Thanks for those links.

      To see a ‘Knight of the Realm’ popping up as Leader of Her Majesty’s opposition says as much about the quality and inclination of the ‘opposition’ as it does about the man himself.

      He’ll mibbe fool some of the folk the Labour Party needs in the Home Counties, but he won’t fool anyone in Scotland. (Apart from Ian Murray, obviously.)

    141. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      ALL lives matter @Katie says at 9:34 pm

    142. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      No bother IB feel free to share widely.

      The fact ‘The Workers Party’ led the country into an illegal war of Aggression against the Iraqi Government on behalf of the US Military Industrial Complex in 2003 should tell people everything they need to know about these Neo-Con Atlaticsts.

    143. Dave Robb says:

      Robbo, Liz G, Fireproofjim, Bob Mack, Call Me Dave, Capella and one or two others – thanks for keeping me contributing cash to Stu while he gets his mojo back.

      As I was reminded by Dan a few weeks ago not all on this site is dross. Sometimes it seems that way, egos have to be preened, even if someone else provides the stage.

    144. Papko says:

      Bill Hume. says:
      6 June, 2020 at 8:40 pm
      Well, hasn’t Wings BTL become a seething cesspit of unionist trolls”

      I agree with you, its so frustrating, the minute you read something that makes sense, then you must re-read it to check if its a troll lampooning.

      Sure sign that the Trolls have taken over, is that all the posters of real gravity, the theoreticians, the sharpest of intellects, have all gone.
      Ken500, Thepnr, Heidtracker, Pfeffers and last but not least Anagach.

      I often wonder if future historians will have access to these comments in centuries to come, and they will be able to gauge the countries appetite for change, prior to Scotland’s Independence.

    145. Beaker says:

      Quest Red has a program on just now called “Who Killed Epstein”. Wonder how much it will reveal, and who is linked to him.

    146. Gary45% says:

      Great “Toon” Chris.
      Yes I noticed some earlier posts regarding Starmer taking the “guilty of genocide” Israeli money.
      Anyone else notice Anti-Semitism has now disappeared from the daily mainstream media since Corbyn was hounded to stand down.
      Yes I appreciate COVID-19 is the main story, but I can guarantee, if Corbyn was still the leader of Labour it would still be Anti-Semitism as a main daily topic.
      Another Zionist supporting lacky waiting in the wings for the establishment,arise Sir Keir we know you’ll let Israel keep kneeling on the necks of the Palestinians whilst shedding crocodile tears.(for photo ops only)
      Its been quite.. I would say funny but its not,that the left leaning presenters on the mainstream radio channels now condemning Johnston for not condemning Trump. The very same presenters crucified Corbyn with garbage allegations until he left.
      He is only one of a very select few politicians with morals in WM who would have told Trump to go and “Do One”, over the current situation in America.
      The WM bed has been made and its covered in shit, that includes EVERY party in WM.
      Hang your heads in shame.

    147. Sarah says:

      @ Dan at 10.59 a.m.: The link you give from a 2018 exchange btl on Wings completely obliterates the “Scotland will be a the back of the queue to re-enter the EU” line!!

      “In the case of a Member State’s… dissolution”

      Step 1 – “Declaration of independence from a state…following a democratic process” [e.g. a vote in Holyrood or a consultative referendum, would meet this rule, surely?]

      Step 2 – “Notification of succession…by the state emerging from the member state’s..dissolution. This act would notify…the new state’s wish to succeed the predecessor state as a EU member as a new state complying [with EU rules etc].

      Step 3 – “Act adopted by the EU to recognise a new state’s succession…”

      As easy as that! The EU has got the procedure all worked out. All we need do now is have a vote at Holyrood or a consultative referendum.

      What are we waiting for? I have suggested several times btl that we, the Yes movement, take the question to Holyrood via a petition. Currently the only people who mention independence at Holyrood are the Unionist parties.
      No-one pro-independence ever talks about it there.

      So if a petition from us went to Holyrood the Scots gov would have a legitimate reason and grounds to say that independence is being demanded and we must respond. Until we prod them the Scots Gov won’t reveal any plans. They may have plans but are not being given the “justification” to show them to us.

      Let us help Scot Gov move on this matter by making a public demand. We must stop waiting for Scot Gov to make the first move. It will be easier for them if we push.

    148. Sarah says:

      The road map summarised above in my post at 11.24 is in the Lisbon Treaty.

    149. Katie says:

      @Jockanese Wind Talker says:
      6 June, 2020 at 10:28 pm
      ALL lives matter @Katie says at 9:34 pm

      Yes absolutely agreed!I am sorry if I didnt mislead before! I am pretty sure this whole agenda is to create division!

    150. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      Curious for your thoughts on this:

    151. James says:

      Katie; “Wait a minute…. hud the bus etc…. now dont get me wrong.. im no racist… but if black lives matter and its all cool from them to protest n cause havock in the streets and god forbid not socially distance…. then do scotttish lives matter and is it ok for us to march for freedom again in a peaceful manner? Or do we have to still live with the same old jock/sweaty socks ‘so called just banter’ forever …. just sayin!!”

      “I’m no racist, but”…”I’m a proud Scot, but….”
      Scottish marchers have not (so far) had Police Scotland’s knees on their throats until they die…

    152. CameronB Brodie says:

      This might interest some with an interested in resisting unjust power.

      Handbooks of the Sociology of Racial and Ethnic Relations (pp.319-342)
      Racial Hegemony, Globalization, Social Justice, and Anti-Hegemonic Movements

    153. Katie says:

      James… I dont want to fall out! That was not my point! It was more abt protesting when they (the powers that be) say we shld be social distancing! Think of it this way…. we cant get a hair cut/go for a pint etc. But its ok if we protest for the cause of BLM! So if thats ok then surely we can start AUOB marches again? I was not attacking black people but just the agenda! Maybe I didnt clearly state that on last post and I am truly sorry if I offended anyone!

    154. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      This is a new disease which has all the appearance of being rather deadly to some, and rather contagious to most. It has killed a lot of people, and we have no protection or cure yet. So in the absence of solid science, the rational and ethical approach was to follow world health regulations and lock-down. Though the initial threat appears to be subsiding, in places, the science is still evolving and I think the health infrastructure is still patchy. You’ll always get conflicting opinions in science, but I don’t think there is sufficient proof yet that conditions merit changing from a precautionary approach. I don’t have the latest insight though.

      That’s my view anyway.

    155. Katie says:

      @CameronB Brodie…. I agree no evidence its safe yet but… I am sad to say… I dont think they (and by they I mean the powers that really rule us … and I dont mean Nicola or even Bojo) dont want to ever make us believe its safe even if virus subsides… they want to ieep us under fear and control… give them our DNA (tests) details of whereabouts (conract tracing) etc… Not gonna even go into bogus vaccine!!! I think we all need to be careful… not just for infection… but for the agenda! Take care every one!!

    156. CameronB Brodie says:

      Possibly, but only if we don’t keep it real. 😉

      Full text.

      Managing the Covid-19 pandemic through individual responsibility: the consequences of a world risk society and enhanced ethopolitics

      At the end of March 2020, international media present Swedish management of the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic as soft and irresponsible. Thus, Sweden, which is usually regarded as exceptionally risk averse and cautious, has chosen an unexpected risk management approach. The aim of this article is to reflect on how the Swedish government has managed the Covid-19 pandemic until early April 2020 from two theoretical perspectives, the risk society thesis and governmentality theory.

      We make a brief review of how previous pandemics have been managed compared to Covid-19 and try to understand the consequences of the Swedish handling of present pandemic with a particular focus on the governance of the pandemic and the exercise of power rather than definite risk management strategies during the pandemic.

      Covid-19, risk society, inequality, governing of conduct, individual responsibilisation

    157. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s another perspective.

      This is what it will take to get us back outside

      How to safely ease social distancing while we wait for a covid-19 drug or vaccine.

    158. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s a collection of essays on handling the covid threat.

      Volume 62 Number 3 | June–July 2020

    159. Joe says:


      Dont be sorry. You have done nothing wrong. With a little imagination and lack of shame its possible to read into anything someone says. The insinuation of racism or of making a racist comment is the 1st tactic of progressive arseholes who use labels as filler for lack of argument

    160. Joe says:

      If we are going to talk race then im going to say that white Europeans are currently the least racist people on Earth. In fact its painful how willing most are to bow to the narrative of race grifters. We have nothing to be sorry for or ashamed of. Nobody goes demanding the mongols apologise for Genghis. Its the agenda of divide and conquer and the left swallows it eagerly.

    161. Grouse Beater says:

      I suppose we will see Boris emulate Trump, Chris, erecting walls and barriers everywhere against legitimate protest. Good cartoon. Thank you. I’ve been rather critical of the SNP this week. Some faithful will see it as heretical, others that it needs said. Maybe next week I’ll get back to some tongue-in-cheek humour.

      Your essential weekend reading:

      ‘The SNP’s Moral Stance’:

    162. Joe says:

      In fact, if one clears the bias from their eyes we can see that racism is now going in the direction against white Europeans. We are being blamed for things we did not do and are mostly too modest to say so. Well im not too modest and ill say that if someone doesnt like the civilisations we Europeans have built they can fuck off to the other ones. Of course – they wont. For good reason.

    163. Joe says:

      @Grouse beater

      Ive never read your blog. But if whats happening in the US is legitimate protest to you then you are one seriously uninformed person.

    164. Sensibledave says:

      CBB 12.02

      At last!!!! CBB expresses his own thoughts in a cogent argument. I may agree or disagree with the conclusion but, finally, he expresses his own thoughts!!!

    165. Breeks says:

      OT… kinda.

      Any police officers / prison wardens out there? What part of restraining a prisoner requires any attention to the throat area whatsoever? Is this standard drill for police forces?

      I know the neck has many pressure points, and has many “target” nerves to hit ninja or commando style to drop someone unconscious or dead instantly, not to mention fatal damage to the throat itself,… but because there are so many opportunities to inflict a catastrophic or fatal assault, you would think a police forces strategy for restraining a prisoner would not go anywhere near the neck precisely for those very reasons.

      This type of restraint does not seem based in policing, but I would say it is military in its ethos, where life is often cheaper and the stakes are often higher. If you cannot restrain your prisoner, circumstances might easily escalate into killing them, but that’s very much a military outlook, not civil policing.

      I cannot bring the details to mind, but I am also sure I recall someone accidentally killing their lover because they held them in a genuinely loving embrace, but which constricted the wrong nerves in their neck and caused death by strangulation. You’d think that hardly sounds plausible, I know, but then there is also quite alarming video footage of an Indian snake charmer with a python around his neck, and absolutely no struggle or even signs of distress until the poor fella slumps forward having lost consciousness. A graphic illustration of the quiet lethality of the snake, but equally alarming illustration of how vulnerable the human neck is. (He survived I understand, but it was a close run thing).

      I would warn police forces everywhere… if you genuinely wish to avoid deaths in custody, then don’t use the neck to restrain people. It is just asking for trouble. You must surely know this.

    166. Effijy says:

      I watched the Netflix series about Jeffery Epstein last night.

      Some of the judgements made about the man who did rape
      And abuse 100’s of young girls over many years were quite unbelievable.

      You will be in no doubt that the FBI, US Government prosecutors and leading
      Politicians were covering up, being blackmailed or being bribed by this Billionaire.

      He was undoubtably guilty on all accounts but a secret deal was done, that tried
      To change their laws that saw Epstein agree to go to prison for a few months.

      It turns out he got a prison block to himself and no cell doors were ever locked.
      His advisors were all allowed to come and go but best of all he could leave for
      12 hours per day to go to his office where it appears young women were able to visit.
      He had to pay the hourly rate for two officers to view him entering and leaving his office.
      He spent $128,000 for this privilege.

      Thankfully an appeal judge demanded that the secret deal was not within the law and he had
      Never seen the FBI attempt a deal which tried to say that none of his associates in these matters
      Nor himself, could ever be prosecuted in any US state at any time in future if he agreed to a short
      Prison term.

      He was eventually convicted but the next event in this extensively corrupt farce seen Epstein
      Hang himself in a holding prison where it was claimed their CCTV broke down and both guards
      On duty fell asleep?

      Other interesting aspects include the victims and maintenance men seen
      Prince Andrew cavorting with an under age topless girl and grinding himself
      Against her at his private island pool. It’s the same girls he did a Cummings
      Story on saying he can’t remember outing his arm around the girl nor the photograph
      Being taken, he doesn’t sweat as the girl claimed and he was in a Pizza Express on the
      Night the picture and sexual encounter took place in London this time???

      Other friends of Epstein were presidents Trump and Clinton.
      Clinton claims he never visited Epstein’s private Island but the
      Girls and maintenance man confirm they seen him.
      The private jets log shows Clinton being on board island flights
      Several times.
      Clinton still tries to deny it?

      This legal farce parallels what we are facing here in Scotland with
      The Alex Salmond case and now the Murray and Hurst trials.

      The law and justice in these countries is readily distorted and corrupted
      Whenever it suits the agenda of those in privileged positions.

    167. Liz g says:

      Dave Robb @ 10.49
      Well..thank you for sayin Sir 🙂
      The Campaign being pretty much held on pause does create a space here for the clowns with an agenda to vent…
      But like you’ve been astute enough to notice,there are very few places where freedom of expression actually practised.
      And, like you, that’s why I value and contribute to it!
      If a few slurs and insults is the price I pay to be able to read and engage with uncensored opinion…I’m happy to pay it,safe in the knowledge that it is a rare thing these days.
      Don’t worry too much Dave,because as soon as things start to happen on the Indy front….the poltroons on here will be swamped by the true nature of this site as THE place to go for ideas an information…and I think history will show that they played their part in keeping the conversation going through the dry years which is irony personified … Which is deliciously funny too. 🙂

    168. Effijy says:

      BBC News at 8.32am this morning has Manchester Lord Mayor Andy Burnham
      On discussing an increased R rate of Covid infections in the area.

      He is aggrieved because the Lord Mayor of London is allowed to sit on
      COBRA Meetings, and N Ireland, Wales and Scotland, but no other “English Region”.

      There we have confirmation that a leading Labour light who jumped of
      Their rat infested sinking ship classifies Scotland as another English region
      and upset that we have access to COBRA meetings but Manchester does not?

      So the Sovereign nation of Scotland should be further downgraded to below that of a large English

    169. Bob Mack says:


      Having done control and restraint techniques I can assure you any type of neck hold is a major “no no”, simply because the very act of someone resisting such a hold magnifies the danger for the person being held. That resistance also leads to increased force by the person applying the hold, and it becomes a vicious circle

      Arms legs torso OK.

    170. Bob Mack says:

      Certainly there is no Indy on the horizon, but I can still watch the UK State crumbling before our very eyes.

      They become desperate for economic survival and by that I mean their personal shares portfolio, stashed away for retirement. Citizens have become expendable .In fact citizens are stepping forward to become expendable of their own accord in pursuit of the God of finance to keep them in “comfortable lives”.

      How comfy is a ventilator I wonder.

      Amazing times

    171. Steviesparkie says:

      Breaks. No Scottish cop is is taught to restrain a suspect by going anywhere near the head or neck.except to prevent spitting or biting once in custody.

    172. Gary45% says:

      “Should the mongols apologise for Genghis”
      Whats your thoughts on The British Establishment apologising for the slave trade?
      Also please give me you opinion on Windrush.

    173. Ottomanboi says:

      Bob Mack/08:54
      Should BritState end up like the old Soviet system, simply crumble, I do hope there will be a leadership in place that knows how to seize opportunities….unlike the current risk averse set.

    174. robbo says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      6 June, 2020 at 11:19 pm
      not expecting robbo to do his/her homework, so here at Table 2

      no sign of this;


      I can’t open docs on my comp at mo. ,some gremlin has maybe attached to my comp,not sure. Can’t do any office stuff at all.

      If there is some discrepancy in the ONS docs reporting spreadsheets I think you should take it up with the relevant department.I’m certainly not responsible for Ons reporting figures.

      If you are suggesting that this boy didn’t exist or some other loony theory,then you’re beyond help. It was widely reported at the time,naming the boy,what hospital etc

    175. jfngw says:


      I must admit, you are a grand wizard with the words.

    176. Ottomanboi says:

      Regarding apologies, the Brits officially have not assumed responsibility for introducing the opium habit into China and are unlikely to as all was done in the name of opening the Middle Kingdom to western traders bearing their respective country’s imperialist intentions.
      The Chinese may be getting their own back right now.

    177. Joe says:


      I have never been racist, i have never treated someone negatively because of their biological differences. I have nothing to apologise for nor be shameful for. The idea that I should do so because i share bilological characteristics to those who have is pure racism.

    178. Bob Mack says:


      I think it’s the cone shaped mask that gives it away.

    179. Famous15 says:

      Restraint training by Police Scotland repeats and repeats the dangers and indeed the ineffectiveness of restraint above limbs and torso. It emphasises that any neck or head restraint Is counter productive in controlling a violent or potentially violent person.

      Interesting that in Rugby Union high tackles are very heavily penalised and often lose the game for the offending team yet there are still players offending. That says much about the mental state of the offender and teams should weed them out. Training and penalising is not the total abswer.

    180. Clydebuilt says:

      The Vaccine Better Work and Soon

      Re. Second Wave of Covid-19 the UK (England) has a real problem here. There is a desperate need to get the economy up and running. B U T yesterday BBC Scotland’s Ken MacDonald said that the UK’s daily new infections were greater than the total for 27 EU countries.
      Although the UK has been in Lockdown for over 2 months, the required actions (eg. stopping international flights at beginning , continuing test & trace, putting in travel bans for infection hotspots) haven’t been taken to get on top of pandemic.

      The economic situation is such that a further period of lockdown coupled with a flight ban and T&T is unthinkable .

      This is what lies behind Westminster pumping resources into developing a vaccine. It’s all that stands between the UK and an economic and health catastrophe.

      It’s not in Scotland’s interest to share a land border or be in a union with a basket case nation.

    181. Famous15 says:

      Restraint training by Police Scotland repeats and repeats the dangers and indeed the ineffectiveness of restraint above limbs and torso. It emphasises that any neck or head restraint Is counter productive in controlling a violent or potentially violent person.

      Interesting that in Rugby Union high tackles are very heavily penalised and often lose the game for the offending team yet there are still players offending. That says much about the mental state of the offender and teams should weed them out. Training and penalising is not the total answer.

    182. Bob Mack says:

      Does anyone else remember the storm when Peter Hain issued an apology for the slave trade on behalf of N Ireland and Wales?

      The Government turned on him in case he made them responsible for reparations to millions of families affected by this historical obscenity.

      Westminster has steadfastly refused to apologise for any atrocity with the exact same outlook as Joe. It wisnae me.I

    183. Joe says:

      @Bob mack and jfngw

      The fact that you literally will not address any argument I make and instead target me personally is an outright admission that you cant.

    184. Grouse Beater says:

      “Ive never read your blog. But if whats happening in the US is legitimate protest to you then you are one seriously uninformed person.” Joe

      If that skewed notion is all you managed to extrapolate out of almost two thousand words, I suggest you lie down until the thought goes away.

    185. Gary45% says:

      Anyone want a good laugh, Faridge is on LBC at the moment.

    186. Joe says:

      @Bob mack

      Thank you for underlining my point. I have never held slaves. I grew up in a council house with parents struggling for work under Thatcher. The idea that I am somehow responsible for the actions of a state before I was born is something only an idiot or a grievance monger would push

    187. Joe says:

      @Grouse beater

      And I would advise you inform yourself before trying to inform others

    188. Colin Alexander says:

      The UK is no longer a member state of the EU, so I believe Scotland cannot now be the succeeding member, even though we continue to be in the transition phase regarding staying in line with EU regulations.

      While we are in line with EU regulations makes it easier to rejoin. Expect that door to slam shut in the coming months as the UK increasingly aligns itself with the USA.

      Another aspect of leaving the EU, is that people have lost the right to rely on EU Law directly.

      BTL ( Below the Line comments section) is what we make it.

      This is our space to discuss, debate, ask question, share knowledge.
      It’s been sad to see it recently. It’s descended into playground slagging again.

      Sensible points and attempts to start a discussion are ignored in favour of people trading insults.

    189. Liz g says:

      Steviesparkie @ 9.15
      That’s good to know……this needs more publicity!
      We are so used to seeing police do this on our screens that,it would, I think,be good to be very clear that it is not practiced here.
      Our Police have to date been very fair in and around our marches. This plays no small part in how peaceful they are.
      We should be a lot more vocal about that part of our movement.
      For many reasons going forward but especially now…. No one can claim that tens of thousands of passionate people on the streets need be threatening to anyone and policed with wanna be stormtroopers,if they take a look at our marches!

    190. ahundredthidiot says:

      robbo @9:49

      Despite my instinct screaming at me at the time when I saw the piece (which is why I looked into it), I am simply stating that the ONS has no record in either March nor April of a 13 year old boys death in England or Wales – and while I say that that is curious and worthy of further investigation – you apparently don’t find that curious and decide instead to simply scream conspiracy theorist in the boring old attempt to shut down any line of enquiry and scare away debate.

      Classic reaction from the brainwashed. You’re are back on the scroll past list.

    191. ahundredthidiot says:

      apologies – should’ve added ‘death with covid’ to above.

    192. Gary45% says:

      “White Europeans” that itself is a racist comment.

    193. Pete says:

      All this apologising for things we’re not responsible for is just virtue signalling nonsense.
      I’ve nothing to apologise for. Full stop.
      If black folks don’t like living here then they should go to some of those wonderful African states or, indeed , Jamaica which, apart from the resorts, is just a dump.
      My ancestors got a rough time from the Romans and the Vikings.I certainly am not looking for any apologies.
      No doubt you’re one of those who abhors the British Empire but, don’t forget the Empire did a lot of good things for the countries involved as well as bad. It’s also essential to bear in mind the times when the Empire existed.

    194. ahundredthidiot says:


      Man, you must have one hell of a hangover.

      That was a doozy!

    195. jfngw says:


      if someone doesnt like the civilisations we Europeans have built they can fuck off

      If only we were all so anti-racist the world would be a better place.

      Nobodies arguing all black people are by definition good and all white people bad, you would need a limited intellect to imagine that.

    196. Bob Mack says:


      Ha ha ha ha ha ha, Honestly, you really can’t believe the rubbish your posting can you?

      I suggest a book on the Empire. Maybe we should call in favours from all those indebted to us for their persecution.

      You are so stupid it is actually funny.

    197. jfngw says:

      @Bob Mack

      I think we can condense his comment into ‘if those slaves we brought over don’t like it here then they can fuck off back home if they don’t know their place’.

    198. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Back in the early 1980s, I worked, on a freelance basis, for the short-lived Sunday Standard.

      The young Gordon Brewer also worked for the paper and the general opinion then was that Brewer showed all the potential to, in time, be a total ersehole

      I feel with his rude, over-bearing and aggressive shouting at Jeanne Freeman on Politics Scotland this morning, he has finally achieved his ambition – and become a total ersehole.

      Back in the day, when he was the most-feared loose-head prop in rugby, Ian ‘Mighty Mouse’ McLauchlan was famous for never warning an opponent who over-stepped the boundaries of what was allowed. The Wee Man from Tarbolton simply punched those who over-stepped the mark, then said: “That was your warning.”

      How I long for someone taking that approach with Brewer.

    199. Joe says:

      Id like to finish by saying this:

      I, nor anybody else, can be held responsible for the actions or beliefs of others because of shared ethnicity. To contradict this statement is to support racism in its purest form.

      People who continue to vote and support SNP however are absolutely responsible for the damage this party causes on Scotland and its people.

      You are most welcome.

    200. Liz g says:

      Well let’s address some points!
      Are ye no sorry that it happened?
      Ye see sometimes it takes a wordsmith ( e.g. Grousebeater ) tae unpick a notion or two!
      For me “White Privilege” is a struggle to agree with,because I don’t think I have any “privilege” at all. ..but I can immediately understand “Male Privilege” …I’ve often wondered why that is?
      It is, I think,the magic of language and very much tipping into controlling the narrative.
      The phrase “Black Lives Matter” is very much open superficially to the counter narrative ” All Lives Matter “, unless and until ye unpack the meaning…
      So,I ask again…are ye no sorry slavery happened?
      And if so…what’s wrong with sayin it?

    201. Julia Gibb says:

      Does anyone think Joe has actually “Finished”?
      Perhaps his shift has finished.

    202. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Grousebeater

      Thank you for an articulate and damning indictment of the SNP’s failures.

      Six wasted years by the SNP and no signs of that changing.

      While Boris Johnson and his Imperials continue to tighten the noose.

    203. Dr Jim says:

      Exceptionalists were killing people they didn’t like in Scotland and Ireland long before we ever knew what a black person looked like, today they call it racism because there’s colour involved, but it’s the same thing
      People are blaming countries for this when it’s not, it’s individual people believing in the notion that they are superior then forming themselves into a big club in countries all over the world

      If you removed all the black people from somewhere these exceptionalists would find the next colour between those they want to be superior over because colour’s easier to spot the differences for the sales team, Indians Pakistani Latino Jew and on and on till you get right back down to poor white people or a different accent or culture, even right down to the colour of your hair, and we’ve seen that one more recently

      Scotland’s full of statues of English leaders and streets named after English conquerers and Kings and Queens who stuck bayonets knives swords and bullets into the indigenous population of Scotland but nobody calls that racism because Scots or Irish are a similar colour, so we don’t even rate being called a race

      Racism’s a bad thing and it has a bad sounding word to describe it but exceptionalism is a far worse and much older description of the people who practice the divisions of superiority over others, we all know the people who practice this behaviour they make their presence fairly obvious and they hide behind the whiteness of the rest of us when they need to, but remove the people of colour and those people instantly become whiter than the rest of us and we’re next, just like we’ve always been

      It’s not colour, it’s just business and currency, step right up and buy some hate folks, become an exceptionalist, you know you want to, it’s the road to the higher power, get some now while stocks last, and remember vote for me because I’ll protect you from this years choice of the enemy within

    204. Julia Gibb says:

      Colour prejudice in Scotland when I was growing up was between Blue and Green. A few white greedy Tories made a fortune from the Slave Trade because of the promotion of greed by an Imperial State based in London should not be dumped on me.

    205. jfngw says:

      The famous five who turn up to spread misinformation. Yesterday the idiot claimed covid was just the same as the flu, then quoted 44,000 excess deaths in 2015. of course he failed to mention he was comparing 53 weeks to 21 weeks of data.

      So I checked his 2015 figure for the first 21 weeks of 2015, low and behold in 2015 there was approx 9,500 excess deaths in this period compared to 53,000 this year (rounded these as there is slightly less than 9,500 and slightly more than 53,000), so I can see how he claims they are the same.

      Now that Pete has turned up for duty and Joe has been relieved it must mean the idiot is on evenings today.

    206. Joe says:

      @Liz G

      Alright ill put work aside for a few more minutes.

      Im not personally sorry that slavery happened in the same way im not personally sorry for WWII. If i had a magic god button that I could press to make so it never have happened I would. But lets leave that there.

      The only thing we can attempt to control is the future.

      For myself – I refuse to bow to collective accepted narratives, especially those pushed by a corrupt establishment. A corrupt establishment not above using racial tensions for political ends. That might make me a tin foil hat wearer to some but im happy with that.

      But more importantly I live by the Martin Luther King morals of (paraphrasing)’judge someone by their character and not their skin color’. Being more of an individualist than collectivist that comes naturally to me nowadays anyway.

      So actually saying ‘I am sorry for slavery’ from someone who never owned slaves or personally supported the slave trade to someone who was never a slave is an exercise in narcissistic virtue signalling. You are free to do so, but nobody should demand it of me.

      Its as ridiculous as me demanding a big ‘thank you’ from black people because most of the Union army who defeated the confederates and the British Navy who destroyed the Atlantic slave routes just happened to be white.

      Anyway, since im under privelaged by normal European standards and don’t actually own any slaves I have to get working.

    207. Bob Mack says:

      I have travelled extensively throughout the world. One common feature I notice is how many countries have museums and monuments to those slaughtered by the British.

      Yet, we have never said sorry, and these folks know it.

      We can argue with family and say sorry for some trivial thing, but heaven prevent us for saying sorry for the massacre of millions, all done in the chase for prosperity.

      How can you move forward in any dispute till you admit the failing even by your forebears.

    208. Clydebuilt says:

      The Vaccine Better Work and Soon

      Re. Second Wave of Covid-19 the UK (England) has a real problem here. There is a desperate need to get the economy up and running. B U T yesterday BBC Scotland’s Ken MacDonald said that the UK’s daily new infections were greater than the total for 27 EU countries.
      Although the UK has been in Lockdown for over 2 months, the required actions (eg. stopping international flights at beginning , continuing test & trace, putting in travel bans for infection hotspots) haven’t been taken to get on top of pandemic.

      The economic situation is such that a further period of lockdown coupled with a flight ban and T&T is unthinkable .

      This is what lies behind Westminster pumping resources into developing a vaccine. It’s all that stands between the UK and an economic and health catastrophe.

      Scotland’s problem is that it is in a Union and shares a land border with England.

      So the Vaccine Better Work!

    209. Bob Mack says:

      @Julia Gibb,

      You have obviously not enough years to remember signs in the Windows of pubs stating.

      “No blacks or coloured” . I’ve seen them with my own eyes.

      Racial tolerance is not very old in the UK, if at all.

    210. callmedave says:

      Same old saw from Ricky Leopard.

    211. Liz g says:

      Sounds like you’ve almost got it
      No one is askin that you be personally sorry for slavery any more than they are asking you…or e.g. German people…to be sorry for WWII.
      What is being floated is the notion that we agree that we’re sorry that it ever happen at all.
      I’m as against and as suspicious of “official narratives” as you seem to be. …but that would never stop me agreeing with one if I thought it right..

    212. Dan says:

      @Colin Alexander @10.14am

      Re. EU Membership / Transition Period / Regulatory Alignment.

      That’s where I struggle to understand what the SNP are actively doing campaigning wise. The modus of just allowing folk to suffer the many negative aspects of London Rule in a hope the pain folk endure will make them consider Indy as a better option seems rather unethical to me when a wannabe and aspiring Government’s job is to protect and serve its people.
      Of course natural wastage of human life, especially with covid on the field no doubt helps alter the demographic towards being more Pro-Indy…

      Scot’s expressed will was to stay in the EU.
      Now before the usual suspects rock up stating it was a UK wide vote, the result clearly created an incompatible clash with the Indy Ref result when a main aspect of Better Together campaigning was we’d lose our EU Membership if we voted YES, especially when the eligible voter franchises for both those referenda were effectively gerrymandered.

      Various elections and mandates to address that Material Change in Circumstance later and we still find ourselves losing our EU Membership, diverging from EU Regulatory Alignment, and having our assets negotiated away in trade deals being made by and in UK’s interest, with Scotland having effectively heehaw input or control.

      Why on earth would the FM take the Indy matter off the table at this time and give Westminster a free run to go in a direction that suits them, whilst making it considerably harder for Scotland to regain a status of what we once had.

      I’ve long thought many in the SNP lacked the vision, gumption, or energy to actually positively campaign for an aim, instead choosing to lazily rely on manufacturing grievances with policies inflicted on us by others.

    213. Capella says:

      @ Dave Robb 10.49 – thx for the thx – somebody has to do it. 🙂

    214. Effijy says:

      World Covid 19 stats shows 7,000,000 million confirmed contaminations.

      I also see that UK deaths per million of population breaks through the 600 mark
      Today and that’s without the help of the 14,000 Excess deaths being hidden in England.

      A second UK wave I’d say is inevitable as people follow the lead of Covid Courier Cummings
      and head out to do whatever they like.

      I did think the anti racism rallies should have all been wearing masks and gloves and keeping 2 meters apart.
      There is obviously a health benefit and it makes the numbers look larger as they would fill up a greater area.

      A spike in England should see police Scotland turning back tourists from our border with England
      But that creates a problem with our Maritime Border stolen by England.
      We should have our coast guards defend the ancient Berwick maritime borders as this will be reinstated when Indy Ref 2 takes place next year.

    215. Pete says:

      Liz g
      What’s your answer to what the Romans and Vikings did to us?

    216. Effijy says:

      Another cracker in racist windows of England was No Irish.
      They desperately required their skills and work ethic but they
      Couldn’t be doing with a country that wanted control of their
      Own country.

      If you don’t want Westminster raping your resources and killing your indigenous people
      You are just not worth welcoming.

    217. Dan says:

      @Pete at 11:21 am

      Give us a never ending supply of free Pizzas and Rollmops as reparations for their past actions.

      And while I am here, those Roman’s also really piss me off when I am on my motorbike, all those straight roads wearing the middle of my tyre down and no corners to enjoy… Twats!

    218. Capella says:

      @ Breeks – the knee on the neck is an Israeli technique used against Palestinians. I believe the Israelis taught it to US forces though there’s not much you could teach them about killing techniques.

    219. Pete says:

      Great answer.
      You are definitely someone I can relate to.
      Good man.

    220. Mike d says:

      Effijy, can you imagine now a sign in a window or workplace saying no Irish Scots or whatever. The local fire brigades and glaziers would be kept busy lol.

    221. David says:

      Another excellent Post Chris

    222. jfngw says:

      I see 27% of people surveyed in the UK think Boris Johnson is honest. So apparently you can fool some of the people all of the time.

    223. CameronB Brodie says:

      Does it hurt, being shown up for the ignorant English nationalist you are?

    224. Mike d says:

      Joe 10.35am. ‘People who continue to vote and support SNP however are absolutely responsible for the damage this party causes on Scotland and its people ‘.

      So what’s the alternative Joe? The conlibdem unionist party?. We really are between a rock and a hard place.

    225. mike cassidy says:


      The spreadsheet comes of age.

      For your Sunday viewing displeasure

    226. Mike d says:

      That should have been conlabdem unionist party.

    227. Beaker says:

      @Pete says:
      7 June, 2020 at 11:21 am
      Liz g
      “What’s your answer to what the Romans and Vikings did to us?”

      The aqueduct and Hagar the Horrible cartoons.

      Alternatively, the Vikings (ok their descendants) sapped Harold’s strength (by getting the shit kicked out of them) before the Battle of Hastings, thus allowing William to take the English crown. His son invaded south west Scotland, and annexed it.

      So you could argue that the Vikings (modern day Norwegians), by getting slaughtered, allowed English dominance over part of Scotland, caused by the French (William was Duke of Normandy). 🙂

    228. mike cassidy says:

      And this link to explain the spreadsheet.

      With Whom are Many U.S. Police Departments Training? With a Chronic Human Rights Violator – Israel

    229. Liz g says:

      Pete @ 11.21
      Being that I’m neither a Roman, a Viking or an “us”I can’t answer for them…but I’m sure any decent people would be sorry that any inhumanity was visited on anyone.
      All the while being pleased that their actions didn’t shape our society’s current ethos too!

    230. Capella says:

      The Normans are also vikings – the “north men”. They invaded France and made such a nuisance of themselves that the King of France gave them Normandy. Then they invaded England an have been lording it over the poor Anglo Saxons ever since.
      I blame the Normans – it’s an anagram of Romans with an N 🙂

    231. Beaker says:

      @Capella says:
      7 June, 2020 at 12:23 pm
      “The Normans are also vikings – the “north men”. They invaded France and made such a nuisance of themselves that the King of France gave them Normandy. Then they invaded England an have been lording it over the poor Anglo Saxons ever since.
      I blame the Normans – it’s an anagram of Romans with an N” ?

      Personally I blame the People’s Front of Judea.

      Or is it the Judean People’s Front?

    232. robbo says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      7 June, 2020 at 10:21 am
      robbo @9:49

      Despite my instinct screaming at me at the time when I saw the piece (which is why I looked into it), I am simply stating that the ONS has no record in either March nor April of a 13 year old boys death in England or Wales – and while I say that that is curious and worthy of further investigation – you apparently don’t find that curious and decide instead to simply scream conspiracy theorist in the boring old attempt to shut down any line of enquiry and scare away debate.

      Classic reaction from the brainwashed. You’re are back on the scroll past list.


      Now,now Jerry Fletcher, I’m not the one on the hunt for data to validate your warped mind. Why anyone would find it necessary to look for figures in some stats to see if a wee boy was input in a column in a spreadsheet i find quite sick.
      Again i say if there’s an error in data presented then take it up with the one’s presenting it.

      Scroll past list, lol. Nae dramas Jerry,don’t you forget to put that Budweiser bottle on your door knob tonight.Never know who might come calling.Who knows what secrets you may hide in those filing cabinets! Maybe we could finally solve the mystery from 2014 ,of where all the postal votes went? lol

      Were you in a relationship with Ruth Davidson at the time?

    233. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave does not appreciate my style, as he appears to be hostile to critical realism and the principle of equality in law. Well, he’s an agent of English Torydum.

      Fostering public trust in science: The role of social media

      The growing importance of social media for getting science news has raised questions about whether these online platforms foster or hinder public trust in science. Employing multilevel modeling, this study leverages a 20-country survey to examine the relationship between social media news use and trust in science. Results show a positive relationship between these variables across countries.

      Moreover, the between-country variation in this relationship is related to two cultural characteristics of a country, individualism/collectivism and power distance.

      comparative research, cross-cultural indicators, Hofstede, science communication, social media, trust in science

    234. Joe says:

      @Mike d

      If the SNP lost 75% support in polls and membership they would change their tune pretty fast. It probably wouldn’t even require a vote.

      How hard is it to voice dissent to policies that breach human rights?

      I’d consider starting a new party myself but im no politician, I hate politicians and im not a man of the people. All I can do is point out what utter hypocrite lying tyrants they are and not vote for them, not join them and oppose the shite they push. Basically – the solution is to be honest.

      The trouble is that Scotland is infected with the mind virus that is’progressive thinking’ now. So at this point even if you start a new party many of the folk who ‘want indy’ wont vote for you if you aren’t into open borders and generous welfare for all, down on your knees apologizing, people-who-menstruate pushing, paedo enabling, free speech destroying mindless fucking turd of a human being.

    235. ahundredthidiot says:

      Dr Jim @10:32

      Excellent post.

      I am often taken aback by how easily some people can sum up an argument/opinion.

      The movie ’71 (about the troubles in Norn Ireland) struck a chord with me (apologies for the language) the fella says;

      ‘it’s just rich cunts, telling thick cunts, to kill poor cunts’

      Everything else is a distraction.

    236. bipod says:

      Another fascinating interview here, it suggests that a very large proportion of the population were never vulnerable to covid in the first place.

      It is becoming an accepted fact there was there was a prior immunity in the population before the pandemic, thanks to similar coronaviruses like the common cold. If this is true then it completely blows the argument for lockdown and the baseless inevitable second wave myth out of the water.

      People who insist that a second wave is inevitable need to explain why in countries that have already gone further in releasing there lockdowns there has been no second wave i.e. Germany, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Norway and remember a month ago when boris eased the lockdown in England and nicola said it would lead to a catastrophic second wave, whatever happened to that? They should also explain why in countries that have had no lockdown like Sweden and Japan they have either performed no worse than the UK or in Japans case much better.

      Lockdown was always unproven science, and we were bounced into it because of a media frenzy. The NHS was not overwhelmed and it turns out that the 500,000 deaths if no lockdown estimate was totally wrong (but that doesn’t stop boris and nicola from pretending that it stills true), and now they are making up reasons, like the second wave, to keep this disastrous lockdown and worthless social distancing measures in place long into the future.

    237. Ron Maclean says:

      Isn’t hypocrisy wonderful. Sanctimonious Scottish journalists and politicians shedding crocodile tears and sympathy over events in areas where they have no influence or control. Contrast that with their lack of local oversight which encourages political and social bias in their own country. Their negligence sustains an unprincipled parliament, a suspect legal system, elitism, inequality, bigotry and racism.

    238. Ottomanboi says:

      Re boring Covid 19, isolation ie not allowing oneself exposure to the virus may be promoting non tolerance to the pathogen. A second wave in such circumstances, with possible drift or mutation in the organism may be more severe on the self-isolated.
      The perspective that non exposure could be more harmful than exposure is contained in the literature. We acquire immunity or partial immunity through exposure. Vaccine theory is posited on that principle.
      Vaccines are, however, not a magic bullet dependent as they are on ‘full knowledge’ of the pathogen concerned. AIDS for example awaits such full knowledge.
      Compared to the virus per se isolationism may have more damaging consequences on general health, community function, the economy and political stability.

    239. Sarah says:

      Why don’t you do a petition to Holyrood if you think a different approach by Scot Gov is essential given we are dying, being oppressed, ignored, our conditions of existence damaged/threatened by Westminster rule?

      A petition to Holyrood cannot be ignored, especially when signed by masses of people.

      The Unionist parties could not then say “no-one wants independence”.

      Scotgov/SNP would have their justification for action.

      A Holyrood petition is so easy. It could be huge – a rally or march equivalent but held right in the heart of our government.

      Even if you think it won’t make a difference I don’t see why not try. But no-one here ever responds to the idea.

    240. CameronB Brodie says:

      I see you’re still desperate to push you’re libertarian agenda.

      Risk, communication and trust: Towards an emotional understanding of trust

    241. CameronB Brodie says:


      Trust in Science and
      Changing Landscapes
      of Communication

    242. kapelmeister says:

      Scot Lab have come up with a new phrase for their policy on the constitution. It’s “democratic advance”. Brilliant!

      Democratic advance. So reasonable sounding. Yet so meaningless. A commitment to nothing.

    243. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi robbo at 9:49 am.

      You typed,
      “If there is some discrepancy in the ONS docs reporting spreadsheets I think you should take it up with the relevant department.I’m certainly not responsible for Ons reporting figures.

      If you are suggesting that this boy didn’t exist or some other loony theory,then you’re beyond help. It was widely reported at the time,naming the boy,what hospital etc”

    244. Ron Maclean says:

      I have stood on many cold, wet and windy corners gathering signatures for petitions. I sometimes suspected that the names given were not always genuine. For example Richard Head, Hugh Jassel and Juan Kerr often seemed to be in the area I was canvassing. I don’t remember the petitions ever making a difference.

    245. Grouse Beater says:

      “And I would advise you inform yourself before trying to inform others” Joe

      You wish me to defer to your authority? You think debate is just banter, tit for tat? Have you any idea how pompous your comments are to me on a site that prides itself on good discussion?

    246. Gary45% says:

      Not sure if anyone heard LBC yesterday.
      Matt Frei had John Amaechi on, I would recommend everyone to listen to the interview. (You’ll get it on the internet)
      Absolutely brilliant, certainly one of the best interviews I’ve ever heard on the radio.

    247. bipod says:


      Sorry cameron but I am not a libertarian, I just want this lockdown ended. There was little evidence to support this destructive lockdown in the first place and there is even less so now.

    248. Sarah says:

      @ Ron Maclean: but were they petitions to Holyrood? I perfectly understand that many petitions to many bodies don’t make a difference but a well-publicised and supported Yessers demand to Holyrood would surely have to be answered and might prod Scot gov to move.

      It needs to be spread amongst all the Yes movement in order to get a large, and quick, response.

      I have been told by a senior SNP MSP that Holyrood petitions do make a difference.

      If we don’t try then we’ll never know.

    249. K1 says:

      Grouse, it’s a bot gormless pit wi that yin, the beam’s a redwood in its eye.

    250. CameronB Brodie says:

      To claim there is/was no evidence of existential risk, suggests you lack scientific appreciation of how ethical government is done. So, your willingness to resist lock-down without possessing adequate appreciation of what good governance looks like, suggests you have a right-wing outlook. That’s how things appear to me anyway. 😉

      Tackling the Social, Professional, and Political Challenges of COVID-19: The Crucial Role of Public Health Ethics
      This paper, written by members of the UK Faculty of Public Health’s ethics committee, outlines what contributions may be brought from public health ethics perspectives to public debates on responses to Covid-19. It explains some of the questions about values that must be asked, and aims to promote a sustained discourse on how they should be answered. This is for the benefit of engaged public discourse, the public health, and wider health, workforce, and to help support and provide scrutiny in relation to ongoing decision-making.

    251. Ron Maclean says:

      @Sarah 1:20pm

      Holyrood didn’t exist then but the petitions went to Westminster never to be heard off again. At the moment I don’t have much faith in senior SNP MSPs. A petition as part of a large scale independence campaign would work. I agree we have to act and act quickly as we’re running out of time. We need a plan – and not just a plan to make a plan. We’ve had enough of them. I hope you’ll understand my pessimism.

    252. Joe says:

      @Grouse beater

      Sorry but im not here to be liked. From your comment you appear to have very little knowledge of what you speak and I got that from a single sentence. Which is a pretty poor show.

      I suppose that’s why you are posting it here because it doesn’t stand on its own after all these years?

      Good luck with it anyway.

    253. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m with Sarah. If we don’t want to be further separated from the international rule-of-law, we’d better jam our collective toe up the Scottish government’s backside.

    254. Breeks says:

      Sarah says:
      7 June, 2020 at 12:54 pm

      …A petition to Holyrood cannot be ignored, especially when signed by masses of people.

      Don’t be so sure. An emphatic, sovereign and democratic mandate to remain in Europe meant absolutely nothing to the SNP. They discarded it in a heartbeat.

    255. Where the white protesters when the black and brown men were outed for abusing young white girls in Rotherham??? I freely admit I am racist And homophobic and I will apologise to no one for being so these black and brown people do not belong here .We were never asked if we wanted them here like the doing away with hanging birching Etc., it was forced on us while I would never physically attack or verbally abuse them it is not so much that I don’t like them I don’t like them being here all they do is moan all the time about how unfair we are to them so why don’t they go back to where they belong if it so bad for them here???

    256. Ron Maclean says:

      I hope Humza Yousaf won’t think me racist if I suggest he steps up to the plate and explains why some journalists seem to be above the law.

    257. jfngw says:

      @Blair Paterson

      Glad to see at least you have no gripe with Chinese and transsexuals at least, good on you.

    258. Famous15 says:

      Blair Paterson if you are serious but suspect your just a troublemaker besmirching the site.If you really believe what you say just get back under your rock you rat.

    259. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘UK figures show that 2.4 million cancer patients are now waiting for surgery, chemotherapy, radiotherapy, screening checks and mammograms.’ (at 3.03 mins)

    260. Baxter1967 says:

      The brutal killing of George Floyd was a revolting example of the violence and hate obsessed culture that is tearing America apart. The Americanisation of our own politics through the binary , identitarian , woke , cancel culture ideology is whipped up by the USA tech giants and has found an ideal breeding ground in metropolitan London. I fear however that it is eating into the SNP. I now firmly believe that removing the SNP from government long term is essential for liberty and tolerance and that the only way to achieve this is an Independent Scotland. Yes vote SNP to get rid of them. It would halt the gravy train to Westminster where it’s all talk shite and deliver nothing. An independent Scotland just might have a chance of a decent opposition and even better , a consensual approach to the big economic and political issues. Currently the Scottish Labour Party and Conservatives are not fit for purpose, have appalling leadership and are dead weight. Independence might attract talent to their cause. We could then start to create national responsibility and stop blaming the bloody English for every social ill. Economic responsibility would mean an imperative for business and entrepreneurial growth to fund the public sector. Confidence would flourish. The current situation is unsustainable and I fear means indefinite SNP domination and all the damage such complacency has. Then the people will get bored and the SNP will die like Labour. Independence is the necessary reset for Scottish democracy.

    261. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      We appear to be on the same side, so it’s a pity my approach doesn’t suite your taste.

      Equality and the Forms of Justice

    262. bipod says:

      No there was no evidence of an existential threat. There was a lot of assumptions being made like that it had a 1% mortality rate and a 10% hospitalization rate, it was also assumed that 80% of the population would catch the virus as 100% of the population was vulnerable. All of that is now shown to be false, but yet we are continuing with the lockdown nearly 3 months in.

      If you think shutting down the economy for an indefinite period of time and shutting down or reducing all other NHS services, which is going to lead to god knows how many deaths in the months to come, on a hunch is good governance then ok.

    263. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      IMHO, that’s an additional cost of the poor response by HMG, which highlighted structural weaknesses brought about through Tory hostility to public health. It does not justify relaxation of lock-down, unless there is sufficient evidence that the pandemic is sufficiently under control. I don’t know if that is the case yet.

    264. CameronB Brodie says:

      Away and play with yourself.

      The Shift From Clinical to Public Health Ethics

    265. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Blair Patterson 1.46

      I freely admit I am racist And homophobic and I will apologise to no one for being so these black and brown people do not belong here .

      I am so sorry for you life is too short to sustain such anger.

      I also see you like hanging and birching. Have you ever considered joining the Tory party?

    266. jfngw says:


      Is that IMR or CMR you are quoting?

    267. Ron Maclean says:

      @CameronB Brodie 1:57pm

      It’s not my site so my taste doesn’t matter. I’m sure we’re on the same side. I think your comments are interesting and informative. However the attached links and dissertations too often dilute, obscure or obstruct the threads.

    268. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      You haven’t actually watched that Vernon Coleman link, have you?

    269. sandra k says:

      Look whats popped up on the national, a letter by the Rt Hon James Wolfe QC.

    270. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      My apologies for that, I’m only getting up to speed now, so my approach has been a bit ropy.

      Ian Brotherhood
      No, but I didn’t need to. Have you made any concerted effort to link with critical realism, or public-health ethics?

    271. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s a Sunday teaser – who said this, where, and when?

      ‘…we have to secure for Scotland a much more direct and convenient method of bringing her influence to bear upon her own purely domestic affairs. There is nothing which conflicts with the integrity of the United Kingdom in the setting up of a Scottish Parliament for the discharge of Scottish business. There is nothing which conflicts with the integrity of the United Kingdom is securing to Scotsmen in that, or in some other way, an effective means of shaping the special legislation which affects them and only them. Certainly I am of opinion that if such a scheme can be brought into existence it will mean a great enrichment not only of the national life of Scotland, but of the politics and public life of the United Kingdom.’

    272. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      ‘I didn’t need to.’



    273. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I didn’t need to as you had already outlined your concern about cancer patients missing treatment. FFS. 😉

    274. Stoker says:

      Sarah says on 6 June, 2020 at 11:24 pm (edited version):

      ““In the case of a Member State’s… dissolution”

      Step 1 – “Declaration of independence from a state…following a democratic process” [e.g. a vote in Holyrood or a consultative referendum, would meet this rule, surely?]

      Step 2 – “Notification of succession…by the state emerging from the member state’s..dissolution. This act would notify…the new state’s wish to succeed the predecessor state as a EU member as a new state complying [with EU rules etc].

      Step 3 – “Act adopted by the EU to recognise a new state’s succession…”

      As easy as that! The EU has got the procedure all worked out. All we need do now is have a vote at Holyrood or a consultative referendum.”


      Thanks for that, Sarah, and you simplifying it. I’m particularly drawn to ‘Step 1’ – That, surely, would include putting it into an election manifesto and progressing it as per the steps above if a majority voted for independence?

      I’m all for that, and keeping it in the manifesto so that the electorate/public become very aware of the power of their vote and exactly what they’re voting for.

      This crap “gold standard” needs to be binned along with anyone repeating that line. Nobody has any right to deny us access to any democratic option, NOBODY.

      The reason Sturgeon runs with her “gold standard” creation is because it has greater odds of keeping her in power. Putting it in a manifesto runs a serious risk of decreasing those odds and therefore decreasing opportunities to force through extreme minority agendas.

    275. Bob Mack says:

      @Blair Paterson,

      Many nations didn’t want the British like you either, but your countrymen insisted.

    276. I have been posting on here from day 1 and unlike you brave souls who hide behind non deplumes and are afraid to give you full names I blog on here to give my view of things and I don’t need your approval of what I blog if you don’t agree with what I say fine but to resort to playground abuse speaks volumes about your characheters some of you may think I’m a basta—., but a least I am an honest basta— and still no comments about the abuse of young white girls by blacks in Rotherham??? Aye all you brave souls who want to shout abuse while hiding behind a wall Mon Brav

    277. Dogbiscuit says:

      Robbo. You write people off as conspiracy nuts when you can’t answer a question or make a reosoned argument much as a Government ministerial flunky or a journalist would. We’re being told by Tory Government that any kind of ‘face mask’ will be mandatory. You don’t see the dehumanising effects of that? Neither does Nicola Sturgeon.

    278. jfngw says:

      @Blair paterson

      First time I’ve been abused for not being a racist. Why are you so interested in peoples names, you do know we have no idea if your real name is Blair Paterson, there is no confirmation on the site.

    279. CameronB Brodie says:

      It is hard to reconcile racism with a liberal justification for the legal emancipation of Scottish sovereignty. Just saying.

      Understanding the Mark: Race, Stigma, and
      Equality in Context

    280. Dogbiscuit says:

      Nicola Sturgeon has a cheek concerning herself with black rights while she keeps her own population under lock and key with a set of Emergency powers to sustain her ego ‘going forward’.

    281. CameronB Brodie says:


    282. robbo says:

      Wit r u talkin aboot Dug?

      Your buddy ‘the idiot’ on here just surmised that the boy who died of covid,didn’t because he wasn’t on some ONS spreadsheet ffs.
      Get a grip ya loon tune. Facemasks- naw a don’t, better safe than sorry. Yir mammy no teach you anything!

    283. Bob Mack says:

      @Blair Paterson,

      No Blair ,your not honest. If you were you would have posted that there are quite a number of white men being investigated,indeed charged over Rotherham.

      How could you forget that ?

    284. Dogbiscuit says:

      The riots in the States are under political direction.Behold the ghoulish Joe Biden gatecrashing George Lloyd’s funeral to play politics.That will not be lost on the American people I think.By the way it’s a popular foolishness in this country to believe Americans are daft but it seems they have cottoned on to the Fascist nature of this ‘lockdown’ while many Scots unquestioningly accept Government instructions because they live their lives under a media siege of fear propaganda the Scots.

    285. Dogbiscuit says:

      Here is a question for all the heroic little social justice warriors and millionaire communists did the black policeman David Dores life mean anything? Any of you Sturgeon cyphers give a fuck about the destruction of black communities by white activists? Sturgeon you shameless self promoter. She mounts any fashionable cause like whore to cover herself in brownie points for Kissinger.

    286. callmedave says:

      Sunday weekend reporting day low numbers expected:

      Three Nations have posted numbers according to big Auntie but she has not done so yet on either of her two web sites darn Sarf
      BBC UK or BBC England corona virus update news.

      N. Ireland…….today….00……Total…..537…BBC
      UK……………today…no data..Total…no data

    287. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      I didn’t express ‘concerns’ about anything – I quoted from a video which I was linking to.

      We’re expected to take in the stuff you post night-and-day but we get dismissed if we show any sign of expecting you to do likewise?

      Try using your ‘vastly superior’ search facilities to check out expert advice on improving self-awareness.

    288. Clapper57 says:

      Sooooooo to add to the blatant hypocrisy of prominent ‘liberal’ minded Remainers from a list that grows each day ….is this exchange on Twitter :

      One of those Prominent ‘liberal’ etc etc ..Ian Dunt tweeted a response to a tweet by a political editor re a response Lisa Nandy gave on whether Trump was a racist.

      So tweet from political editor quoting Nandy was :

      ” “I’ve no idea whether Donald Trump is a racist or not a racist”, says Lisa Nandy – but says his attacks on BLM protests are a “deliberate election strategy” to fire up his base”

      Then Dunt responded to this in his tweet :

      “I fully understand why someone in Nandy’s position doesn’t want to explicitly say it. But there are few clearer things in life than the fact Donald Trump is a racist”.

      I then read further and found a perfect tweet by someone in response to both Ian and Nandy’s hypocritical position :

      “The same people who said Labour must pick a side over Brexit now support Labour not picking a side over anything. It’s like they knew what that decision would lead to…”

      See Ian Dunt , like many other prominent ‘liberal’ etc etc demonised Labour under Corbyn for NOT taking a definitive position on Brexit…fair enough…so did many of us…however now that Labour is being led by Starmer ( Dunt a fanboy of) Ian is willing to kinda cut them some slack…be understanding re their position…BTW Ian was ALSO understanding and made allowances for Nandy on Catalonia remark re Scotland….

      On that he tweeted at the time :

      “In both cases they’ve made comments or allusions that were probably unwise. Everyone messes up a bit. It happens” ( “both cases” is Dunt also referring to Jess phillips as well as Nandy as Phillips too is another very vocal anti Indy Red Tory).

      Dunt then also added :

      “But of course this is Twitter, so Nandy wants to beat up and arrest Scottish independence supports. Because it’s so much easier to create a pantomime villain than it is to treat people as capable of sensible thoughts and errors at the same time”

      You know this reminds me of Malcolm Bruce and Willie Rennie using the excuse “everyone lies”…”everyone makes mistakes” their defence of Alistair Carmichael….so it’s OUR interpretation on what they say and what they do that is wrong..simples…Hey THEY are only human….NOT YOU THOUGH INDY JOCKS…or as they like to call us Grievance mongers and whingers to diminish the legitimacy of our pro indy argument when we highlight their Unionist toxic and ill considered remarks.

      Unionists and indeed prominent ‘liberal’ minded remainers make the biggest mistake of all and indeed happily invent the biggest lie….their biggest mistake is in assuming that people cannot see their blatant double standards and their biggest lie is that they want us to believe that they are on the right side…the good side…and those they demonise are the baddies….and the baddies are defined as those who do not want or support the same things they do….

      Bear in mind Nandy is the shadow FOREIGN secretary…so one would expect her to call out obvious racism in a ‘world’ leader after all it’s not as if she is reticent in her offensive opinion of those of us who support a legitimate cause i.e. independence for Scotland.

      So beware of those ‘liberal’ minded peeps like Ian Dunt & ‘other’s’.. who in the past and I am sure in the future will only be liberal minded when YOU deem to take THEIR position in order for THEM to achieve what THEY want…if you deviate from THEIR plan then YOU are the enemy and like THOSE THEY like to condemn THEY will quite happily ‘OTHER YOU’….something I believe THEY hate and condemn the BREXITEERS for doing.. ‘Othering’ …perhaps a mirror should be held up so that THEY can reflect that THEY are indeed cheeks of the same a**e as THOSE Brexiteers they love to berate….in a hypocritical double standard kinda way…..

    289. Dogbiscuit says:

      I am also appalled by the lack of faith displayed by religious leaders of all faiths who have gone along with this Government attack on their religious institutions.Our priests are without faith in the face of fascism.They abandon their flock to the hyenas.

    290. Capella says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood – I have a friend who developed a sharp pain about three weeks ago, was seen by a consultant right away, had biopsy last week and results this week and has been offered chemotherapy. Don’t know where all those people are who are waiting for treatment but they’re not in Edinburgh.

    291. Dogbiscuit says:

      I’m convinced Sturgeon also sick in the head with OCD and in an extreme form of transferrence she passes her neuroses on to our children.Have you seen the insane measures being implemented in schools? Both Governments are investing far too much in this so called ‘new normal’ that they intend to impose it on us based on a spurious ‘pandemic’. The measures seek to alienate the next generation while they are children. Please people wake up. Just who is Sturgeon really working for. Is Jean Freeman still a communist? If so that is not good. We witness from History what Communism does to a people.

    292. Dogbiscuit says:

      Jings Capella I thought you were in Brigadoon.

    293. callmedave says:


      The Justice Secretary has announced people arriving in Scotland from abroad will have to quarantine for 14 days and those who breach the order will have to pay a £480 fine.

      Border Force officers will be carrying out spot checks, with fines of up to £480 for giving false information or flouting the quarantine rules.

      People believed to be repeatedly breaching the quarantine can be reported to the Procurator Fiscal for criminal prosecution, with fines of up to £5,000, although Mr Yousaf said this would be done “as a last resort”.

      (Abroad does not include England) 🙂 Pity….Oh well!

    294. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      You’re picking me up all wrong and appear determined to take the huff. I think I understand where you’re coming from, and I’m trying to show folk where I’m coming from. Which is to support the equality of justice to accessing the right to be healthy. Sorry if I’ve not communicated that well enough, but I’m very, very rusty. I am rather self-aware though.

      The brain, self and society: a social-neuroscience model of predictive processing

    295. jfngw says:

      @ian brotherhood

      I believe it is using the same obfuscation as the UK gov does with covid tests, it is counting the number sent out not the number carried out. The vast majority of these will be bowel screening tests of which less than 60% are normally returned.

      This story was also run in the independent where they stated 500 more deaths had occurred from cancer in Mar/Apr, it would seem very unlikely this was the result of covid delays, anyone developing cancer and dying so quickly is more than likely to be going to die anyway.

      I’ve had cancer, from first going to the doctor to having an operation was 3 months, chemo and radio was another 6 week delay (wound healing), then finished treatment after 6 months.

      Also Vernon Coleman has a dubious reputation, I’m sure he used to write a weekly column in the Evening Times in the 80’s, probably a syndicated thing to many local papers. If this was him at the time he advocated staying away from doctors and hospitals, has he changed his tune to fit his current scenario.

    296. Grouse Beater says:

      “Sorry but im not here to be liked.” Joe

      Peels of laughter, guffaws and cries of ‘tell us another gag’.

    297. Julia Gibb says:

      @Bob Mack

      I remember no Irish signs! Believe me that I’m old enough and I never seen signs as you describe where I grew up but I believe you did.
      Can we condemn Malasia for its current rascist order of Bhumi Putra, then Chinese, then Indian caste even though they are 7th or 8th. Genereration. Another country divided by the British Empire.
      What about the Chemical plants in Ayrshire with employment ratios of 95% Protestant to 5% Catholic. Is it selective hand wringing?
      Did I contribute to the clearances?
      Did I bomb Iraq?

    298. callmedave says:

      HM Gov figures just out.

      N. Ireland…….today….00……Total…..537…BBC
      England……….today…*72……Total…..*27430 *NHSEngland
      UK……………today…77..Total…..40542 HMGov

      Jings! The numbers add up. 🙁

    299. Capella says:

      @ sandra k – interesting letter from the Lord Advocate. Turns out the Crown Counsel decide on prosecutions and the Crown Counsel is – the Lord Advocate, Solicitor General and Advocate Depute i.e. James Wolffe, Alex Prentice and Alison Di Rollo.

      Some useful info on the Crown setup on the HSE site.,General%20and%20the%20Advocates%20Depute.

    300. Juteman says:

      @Blair Paterson.
      I know a man that grows onions in his kitchen cupboard.

    301. Dogbiscuit says:

      All white liberals are self serving cynical manipulative thieving bastards. Those so called ‘liberals are inlaming the situation in the States to put pressure on Trump. It’s an outrageous abuse of the people by cynical politicians on all sides but I think the Democrats are milking the protests.Its a shame agents provocateurs turned protests into riots and too many dumb motherfuckers took advantage of the protests to loot. The usual punishment for looting is….? The media is not reporting the riots properly which have left parts of cities poor parts looking like an Iraqi village after a visit from the RAF.

    302. Sarah says:

      @ Ron Maclean and Breeks re pessimism: of course I understand that! I am just desperate to give something a try right now [as soon as some folk with techy skills and/or wide connections get interested].

      Especially with the added benefit from Dan’s posting yesterday morning that Stoker at 2.42 has pasted a summary of. To whit, that Scotland can get back into the EU very easily – the EU laid down the procedure in 2007 in the Lisbon Treaty [Articles 48 -50].

      So Brexit need not affect us if Holyrood voted for independence now. The EU would recognise Scotland as the successor state because a democratic procedure had been followed, Scotland then asks to be admitted to the EU, and the EU agrees.

      Problem solved!

      @ Stoker: yes, the mandate you suggest would also work but my point is there is already a pro-independence majority in Holyrood so if we asked, via a petition, for them to hold a vote on it now, surely that would solve all the difficulties? Scotland would be independent and in the EU so Westminster would find it very difficult to refuse to negotiate terms.

      No need for a s30 nor a referendum nor wait for 2021 Holyrood election.

    303. Dogbiscuit says:

      Independence? It doesn’t look likely anytime soon people.Our main stumbling block nay Blockhouse to Independence is Nicola Sturgeon and the weird and outlandish loony tunes who are her party power base.Unfortunately the SNP has too many dicks in it for it to change anytime soon.I am politically homeless.What I believe in and what I wish for society was voted out of existence by all Westminster and Holyrood politicians.Im sorry but they are All fascists. Idiots marching in London for a criminal suspect with a dodgy record but they won’t demand their freedoms back.You British are bonkers bamboozled bampots with no fucking grip on reality despite having access to internet especially you ‘lockdown’ junkies.

    304. CameronB Brodie says:

      All those living in Scotland are excluded from accessing justice, in a similar manner to other racial minority throughout history. Just saying.

      The Criminal Justice System and Social Exclusion: Race, Ethnicity, and Gender
      Proceedings of a Workshop – in Brief

    305. HYUFD says:

      Sarah The EU fully supported Madrid when it banned an independence referendum in Catalonia and even arrested nationalist leaders.

      So when Boris refuses indyref2 for a generation then the EU will not interfere (not that Sturgeon will ask for one without Westminster consent anyway)

    306. Mike d says:

      I see a statue of Bristol slave trader edward colston has just been pulled down in Bristol . I wonder if Scots would have the balls to pull down the one of Henry dundas ‘the great tyrant’ in Edinburgh.

    307. gus1940 says:

      London yesterday – 14 police injured but miraculously it would appear that no protesters were injured.

    308. Dogbiscuit says:

      It’s amazing how smug the ‘lockdown’ junkies are. The kind of smugness all idiots feel when they think they are right.

    309. Dogbiscuit says:

      By the way.Hello to all lurkers you look great.

    310. callmedave says:

      @Mike d’

      Yes! Now dumped in the Harbour.

    311. MaggieC says:

      SandraK & Capella

      Thanks for the link to the letter in the National , I’ve archived it so it cannot disappear or be altered .

      And this is Capella’s link archived as well if anybody doesn’t want to click UK Gov website ,

      Thanks to both of you for these links . I hope you are both well.

    312. Juteman says:

      @Mike d.
      I’ll help you carry the equipment to pull down the statue of the Duke of Sutherland that cleared the land in ‘his’ area.

    313. Dogbiscuit says:

      When lunatics took down the statues of Robert E Lee I felt compelled to paint a portrait of him.He now commands my library wall. Fuck anyone who destroys history they are no better than the Taliban.

    314. Dogbiscuit says:

      Don’t pull down statues .Put up statues of your own . Statues are part of your history. Who are you iconoclasts the Taliban?

    315. Bob Mack says:


      “You British are bonkers”. Interesting.

    316. Mike d says:

      Dogbiscuit, you got any portraits of Adolf?

    317. Ron Maclean says:

      I’ve read the letter in ‘The National’ from the Rt Hon W James Wolffe QC. It was linked by sandra k at 2:28pm.

      How do we ensure we’re not campaigning for an independent Scotland with a corrupt Establishment?

      I think the campaign should be built around a written constitution which, among many other things, guarantees the rule of law and emphasises that no-one is above the law.

      WGD had a recent podcast where Mark McNaught said that he, Elliot Bulmer and John Drummond were still working on a constitution. I hope it’s ready soon as we’ll need its protection.

    318. Dogbiscuit says:

      Robbo the obtuse obdurate and obedient. You wouldn’t know fascism if it locked you down.You have time to think about that one

    319. Dogbiscuit says:

      Mike d no I don’t have any portraits of Dolph Lundgren.

    320. CameronB Brodie says:

      The dog certainly takes the biscuit, IMHO. I’ll get ma coat.

      Facing our plague: COVID-19 and Albert Camus
      ….The disease, quarantine and hardship in Camus’ fictional plague are only broadly similar to what we face in the COVID-19 pandemic. For example, Camus confined the outbreak to Oran, which officials isolated so completely that the city closed in around its inhabitants to become a circumscribed world of pestilence and public health measures. However, although no two outbreaks of contagion are exactly alike – not even fictional ones – every major outbreak threatens a way of life, portending a new normal.

      Disease is not the only destructive force that constitutes such a threat. In fact, The Plague has been read as an allegorical account of life in Paris under German occupation. In our own time, 9/11 and the global war on terror (beginning in 2001), the worldwide economic meltdown and recession (beginning in 2007-08), and now the COVID-19 pandemic and its effects have been shocks sufficiently destructive to threaten familiar ways of life for many millions of people.

      Fundamentally, The Plague explores philosophical issues that arise from the confrontation with widespread and unrelenting forces of destruction which Camus believes are manifestations of an ineradicable indifference lurking at the heart of the world….

    321. Bob Mack says:

      Statues are only for winners. Not losers.

    322. Fair do`s to britnat N Oliver, this from twitter,

      `Neil Oliver

      Have never actually met JK Rowling but hers always seems like a calm and kindly voice. Her books and films have brought my children no end of pleasure. Happy to stand alongside her.`

    323. Beaker says:

      Apart from the fact I had no idea who the fuck Colston was until today, no objection to his statue taking swimming lessons. I’m just amazed that somebody didn’t fall in when they dropped it into the harbour.

    324. Dogbiscuit says:

      Statue smashing stinks of unthinking fundamentalist lunacy and a direct attack on sections of communities who may value the public artworks for whatever reason. I’m sick of arsehole politicians forcing societal change without asking anyone.

    325. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob Mack go and fucking win something then.

    326. Bob Mack says:


      At least that would be more than the incompetent Robert E Lee ever achieved.

      Pickett charge. What a howler!! Ordered by Lee himself. Result was loss at Gettysberg. No wonder you support him.

      Another right wing loser

    327. CameronB Brodie says:

      You may value these carbuncles but others view them as active representations of cultural oppression. So who is morally correct?

      The Dialectics Between Constitutional Identity and Common Constitutional Traditions: Which Language for Cooperative Constitutionalism in Europe?

      This Article revisits the role and function of constitutional identity and common constitutional traditions and claims that the latter have had an increasingly stronger influence on the process of European integration – more than may appear at first sight. In addition, the relevance of common constitutional traditions has not been undermined but, on the contrary, strengthened by the emergence of fundamental rights in EU law and the subsequent conferral of binding force on the Charter of Fundamental Rights.

      Constitutional identity and common constitutional traditions are part of two discourses – security and fundamental rights – which are an expression of the security of the European project as an overarching frame characterizing the EU as a polity and legal system.

      After an overview of some of the most important rulings of the Court of Justice of the European Union, this Article concludes by emphasizing the importance of the recent conciliatory attitude recently adopted by the Court of Justice, although the more ambivalent attitude of the Italian Constitutional Court indicates how conflictual features are becoming increasingly important and can no longer be concealed as the EU reaches a more advanced stage of integration.

    328. Ottomanboi says:

      Mike d/16:30
      Pulling down images will not undo history. It is rather naïve to think that their removal fixes things.
      Better to afix a plaque recounting their rôle in ‘the trade’ and then at some stage quietly remove them to some history sculpture park for the education of future generations.
      Scotland’s involvement in imperialism post 1707 should not be expunged but studied as a product of the union with England. There ought to be no pretence that ‘it wasn’t us’. The facts of history tell otherwise. Mature people deal with their mistakes and learn from them. No need for token apologies for past errors.
      The Mongols are alleged to have slaughtered 10s of millions during their invasions far more than either the Hitler or Stalin régimes. Should we expect reparation and images and references to the Great Khans to be wiped from history?

    329. Bob Mack says:

      I think we should Crowdfund a statue for Dogbiscuit.

      General Lee mounted on King Billys horse whilst in retreat, shouting “No surrender”.

      It is rather funny. Ruff,ruff.

    330. Bob Mack says:

      The Mongols ruled from 1100, and at its zenith ruled over a million people only. They did not kill tens of millions.

    331. Julia Gibb says:

      This was during Cromwell’s time so who should apologise to whom?
      The English must accept and apologise for Irish prisoners sent to the West Indies as slaves?

      I suppose I stole the Elgin Marbles and let the Irish starve to fund the Crimean War?

      What about the deaths of the aboriginal people when Australia was used for nuclear testing?

      How many issues are going to be deflected from the Empire to me?

      The Empire where the Sun never set and the blood never dried was responsible. The wealthy elite who made their fortunes from misery all round the World. Families who still hold and enjoy great wealth based on those actions by THEIR ancestors. Do you not think blame lies at their feet more than mine?

      45Billion Pounds was stolen from India alone. This constant dilution of responsibility focus is allowing the greedy a get out of jail card “we were all to blame!”

    332. Bob Mack says:

      Sorry 100 million,Just noticed missing o

    333. Gary45% says:

      I wondered how long it would take for an Empire sympathiser to link the Taliban with anti-racist protesting.
      Classic wuckfittery.
      Don’t fall for the Johnston and Co/right wing media clown show, regarding the future generations paying heavily for the current crisis.
      All they need to do is print the final bill for the bailout and hand it to the treasury, they can easily print the money and no one has to suffer. Then again this strengthens the hand of the delusional believers of the archaic class system that the gullible bow their heads to. Rule Shitania and all that pompous bollocks.
      Lets face it the rich are still getting richer whilst the the rest are made to feel even more subservient.

      Bob Mack don’t you have a statue in the house?
      I’ve got one, when it rings I pick it up and say “hello statue”
      I’ll get my bunnet.

    334. Bob Mack says:

      @Julia Gibb,

      Unfortunately it’s you who is diluting it.It wisna me honest.

      As a citizen of this country you are part of its history like it or not.Perhaps these things were done by your own ancestors.Who knows. Maybe if you look at posts like Dkgbiscuit you will see a glorification of people who carried out these acts.

      It is alive and kicking.

    335. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi MaggieC at 4:38 pm.

      You typed,
      “Thanks for the link to the letter in the National , I’ve archived it so it cannot disappear or be altered .”

      Sorry, MaggieC, you’re wrong there! Anybody can go to your archive site and paste in the url for the article in the National. When you click on “save”, as I just did, you get a message like this…

      This page was last archived 1 hour ago
      If this snapshot looks obsolete you can SAVE again

      Any new save would replace your version. So if the article has been changed/updated…

      The best archive site is The Internet Archive (Wayback machine). Anything captured there cannot be overwritten. Any new/updated version of a page is added to the archive – it does not overwrite the original capture.

      When a url is pasted into the Wayback Machine for saving, you can get a message like this:-

      This page is available on the web!
      Help make the Wayback Machine more complete!
      Save this url in the Wayback Machine

      So you click on,
      Save this url in the Wayback Machine

      Here’s your National page that I have just archived:-

    336. Bob Mack says:


      No statue,but I used to have a singing fish plaque. It didn’t last long.

    337. Mike d says:

      Ottomanboi 5.11pm wont disagree with you over the plaques idea,people should learn from history. But like the Irish who got rid of Nelson’s column in o’Connell st.we shouldn’t have statues honouring these barstewards.

    338. Julia Gibb says:

      @Bob Mack

      Is this how the site works?
      YOU decide what views are correct. You dictate the direction of debate.

      The Empire enabled a private company ( East India Company) to steal the wealth of a Nation.

      Greedy Nasty people cannot act unless the State enables it. I abhor every War, inhumanity and murder every committed by the Empire but unlike you I follow the Money. Queen Victoria made a fortune from the Empire. When is Queen Elizabeth going to return a portion. When is she going to apologise.

      Stop shouting people down. You arrogance in responding to others is offensive.

    339. Bob Mack says:

      @Julie Gibb,

      Too bad. I’m sure the Irish you spoke about are just as forgiving today as they were in the days of Cromwell.oh,wait!!

    340. Dan says:

      @Pete at 11:39 am

      Well my estimations of the Vikings have now dropped further after working and fixing a Volvo tractor today.
      I thought the Vikings were big strong brave folk, so what a climb down for their ancestors to have installed a load of safety related electrical cutouts and crap wiring thus rendering the tractor unable to start.
      Fortunately my youthful endevours of getting BAGA 4 and 3 gymnastic badges at Meadowbank many decades ago stood me in good stead for the contorted positions I was require to get into to remedy the faults.
      Olga Korbut and Nadia Com?neci won Olympic Gold medals, but I reckon I deserve some form of recognition for a phenomenal display of poise, balance, core strength and flexibility in wielding a multi meter and whitworth spanner in an inverted position that makes the Maltese Cross move look like a move carried out by lightweight beginners.
      The tractor is now back up and running again and I got paid with 3 pumpkin plants, which reminds me I’ve still to do my tax return…
      Anyway, there’s defo now some kind of extra reparations required by the Swedes for producing unreliable Volvo agricultural machinery. I don’t feel my earlier suggestion of free rollmops is adequate recompense for the pain and suffering they have caused. May be a tub of Swarfega to clean my hands would go some way to alleviating the physical traumas they inflicted on me today…

    341. Bob Mack says:

      Stop shouting people down.

      Eh Julia ,we’re typing. I know my keyboard is a tad noisy but___

    342. Joe says:

      Huh. That’s quite a coincidence. Who could have guessed that the guy who chaired the Forensic Pathology Panel on the JFK assassination investigation did the autopsy on Epstein AND did the autopsy on Michael Brown AND George Floyd?

      This guys been involved in the most controversial of cases.

    343. Julia Gibb says:

      @ Bob Mack
      You just proved my point!

    344. Joe says:


      Bob Mack and JFNGW (or whatever it is) aren’t going to converse with you honestly. They are here to build trust on inconsequential issues and to beat the establishment drum on anything that matters in the moment. I have come across PR companies and online propaganda people before (US and Spanish) and they have pretty much the same way of working. If you pin them to a solid argument they attack your character. They try to dance on technicalities while avoiding the core of the subject. They take a mocking tone and try to appear authoritative on any given subject (such as Chinavirus). They never seem to have a question of their own. Its pure theatre to try to drive certain topics a certain way with herd mentality.

    345. Bob Mack says:

      Go to the dark side Julia.Joe is calling with soothing words of comfort.

      Good try Joe.

    346. Bob Mack says:

      @Julia Gibb,

      You must have the ears of a bat.

    347. Bob Mack says:


      To attack someone’s character you must first and foremost know what that is. Do they indeed have one of are they permanently shallow?

      You seem to be the latter.

    348. robertknight says:

      Just read Wolffe’s piece in The National.

      The expression ‘I smell shite’ comes to mind.

      No surprises – it’s a reek that pervades throughout the entire structure of Scots Law and, given the numbers of legal eagles that flit over the fence, Scotland’s politics also.

      To quote Rents, it really is “shite being Scottish”.

    349. jfngw says:


      An establishment figure, I think I’ve pissed myself laughing. Arise Sir Jim of Niddrie.

    350. Joe says:

      Pay attention to the murdered black man
      Forget that we are taking away your rights
      Pay attention to the murdered black man
      Forget that we are taking away your rights
      Pay attention to the murdered black man
      Forget that we are taking away your rights

    351. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob Mack. So you want to throw generals at me eh? Wavell . Take that you bounder .

    352. Bob Mack says:


      No just Robert E Lee.

    353. robbo says:

      See this Trump.He can’t even do intimidation right.

      No country should parade troops like that. Seriously the guy in charge of that team should have refused to be paraded like that in front of citizens. There supposed to be covert, wit,not now.

    354. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob Mack .I have respect for History.I value History highly.When you destroy the hard evidence of History such as statues you’re being nihilistic. So you think we should destroy busts of Nero because he is generally believed to be evil? You accuse me of being racist at the drop of a hat you assume I’m racially motivated and yet my interest is the history . A good Historian professional as well as amateurs such as myself, does not apply his or her modern value systems to the past. To do so creates a bias in your thinking. Now you cad are you sitting down? Marshall Mannerheim.

    355. Bob Mack says:


      I think your history starts around 1690. You are amusing though,I give you that.

    356. Ron Maclean says:

      Plan A

      We accept that Brexit will happen. On 01 July 2020 the First Minister writes to Prime Minister Boris Johnson giving six months notice of our intention to withdraw from the Act of Union on 01 January 2021 because the wish of the sovereign Scottish people to remain in the European Union has not been respected. The letter is copied to the European Union.

      Ref: – 17.12.18. – ‘The Scottish Parliament Does Have the Right to Withdraw from the Act of Union’.

    357. Joe says:


      Once it is revealed that certain groups have been paid to riot, while hiding among legitimate protestors, by people who are on video talking about taking down the Trump Presidency before the election it will become clear that this is about domestic terrorism.

      The same people who I believe have a hand in Scottish politics as well as many other countries.

      You can feign stupidity, and you do it naturally, but there is far more going on than just ‘protestors v establishment’.

      Does anybody know that Hillary was in court being told that she will have to testify under oath about her ’emails’ (donations for access to classified info) for which Seth Rich was murdered getting the info to Wikileaks?

      Does anyone know that the process of declassifying the FISA warrants that Obama used to illegally spy on US citizens has started? This using the 5 Eyes (FVEY) intel group – which puts senior people in the British establishment on the shit list?

      Does anyone know that the New Peoples Republic of China was just declared and that its intent is to bring down the CCP and replace the harsh criminal regime?


      Pay attention to the murdered black man.

    358. Bob Mack says:


      Plots everywhere. Establishment control. I’ll tell you a joke to lighten the mood.

      A conspiracy theorist dies and goes to Heaven,where he finds God waiting for him at the Pearly Gates. God asks the man if there is an answer to one question he would like to know before he is judged.

      “Yes” said the man. ” Is it true that your son was married to Mary Magdalene”?

      “Of course not” boomed God.

      The man looked at God and thought” This goes even higher than I had imagined”

    359. Dogbiscuit says:

      Was it not Scottish troops who put in the bayonette charge at Lucknow? Maybe we should pull all our statues down because they were naughty waughty in the past. Yes self flagelation and sackcloth. Such a shallow display of solidarity with a poor black man. Perhaps if politicians stop making capital out of racial tensions and if the debate was actually honest we all might get somewhere as humans.That will be difficult while our political class are trying to dehumanise us under the cover of a covid virus. Racial tension and societal division is bread and butter to politicians especially the virtue signaller Sturgeon. I think anyone who believes a person is under privileged because they are black is a racist. You don’t assume social rank by colour. Only the ignorant white middle classes patronise black folks and poor white folks.The great busy body middle class assholes jumping on causes and band wagons to coat themselves in praise.

    360. dakk says:

      Britnats getting creative with a first ‘female’Gibberish spouter.

    361. Beaker says:

      @Bob Mack says:
      7 June, 2020 at 6:29 pm
      Stop shouting people down.
      “Eh Julia ,we’re typing. I know my keyboard is a tad noisy but___”

      I wondered what the clattering was…:)

    362. CameronB Brodie says:

      What exactly do folk mean when they refer to history? For example, second-wave feminists used to refer to it as his-story. The same could be said about the history of Britain, which assumes a rather paternalist, English, perspective. This reflects the masculine gender ascribed to states and the feminine gender ascribed to nations. It also reflects a narcissistic element of English culture, that I believe is associated with 19th Christian Zionism.

      Historical sociology

    363. robbo says:

      @Joe I don’t give a rats arse.

      The link was about Trump intimidation ploy. Bloody stupid and has put lives of those troops and their families cos he had to hide in a bunker last week. Pathetic charlatan.

    364. Bob Mack says:


      You have excelled yourself with that post. I imagined it impossible after some of your previous offerings,but I was wrong,wrong,wrong.

      Evidence and research is a bloody nuisance isn’t it?

    365. Dogbiscuit says:

      Joe .Excellent news about Hillary Clinton if true.The Clinton Foundation needs serious fraud squad investigation. I hope you’re reading this Ms Sturgeon. How much Scottish tax ended up donated to Clinton Foundation? Barrack Kbama seems to be in big trouble.Political corruption worse than Watergate. Pass me them southern fries woman.

    366. Fireproofjim says:

      I don’t agree with pulling down statues. It is destroying a little bit of history. Whether it is a criminal history or not.
      The right thing to do is (as was mentioned earlier on this thread), to fix an appropriate plaque on the statue with a full and honest description of the figure on the plinth.
      People like the Duke of Sutherland should be remembered as a scoundrel who drove thousands of his tenants off their land during the clearances. A large stone slab with a list of his atrocities should be placed at the foot of his column. Tear him down and he will be forgotten. That is wrong. His crimes should be remembered.

    367. Dogbiscuit says:

      Robbo. The President is the Commander in Chief of the US Army.What shit are you smoking?

    368. Bob Mack says:


      No that’s my false teeth shaking from the fear of the “sherrikin”.

    369. Dogbiscuit says:

      Fireproofjim. That sounds like a good idea.

    370. Joe says:

      @Bob mack

      Reasonably amusing. But:

      Hillary was in court being told she’d have to testify under oath in September

      The FISA declassification has started which puts the Obama admin and top UK officials in deep doodoo

      Antifa and BLM movements were/are being paid and organised.

      Big changes announced in China.

      Pay attention to the murdered black man

    371. Bob Mack says:


      Why not one thing at a time? Rome wasn’t built in a day as they say.

    372. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for getting hyper-geeky, but this stuff is important to keeping it real.

      Full text.

      The limits of historical sociology: Temporal borders and the reproduction of the ‘modern’ political present

      This article develops a poststructuralist critique of the historical sociology of International Relations project. While the historical sociology of International Relations project claims to offer a more nuanced understanding of the state and the international, this article argues that it lacks critical reflection on the notion of a common ground on which ‘history’ and ‘sociology’ can successfully be combined.

      In order to problematize this ‘ground’, the article turns to Jacques Derrida’s critique of attempts to solve the history-structure dichotomy by finding a perfect combination of historicist and structuralist modes of explanation. Exploring the implications of Derrida’s critique, the article considers how the combination of ‘history’ and ‘sociology’ can be linked to a sovereign politics of time, which reaffirms rather than challenges the limits of the ‘modern’ political present and its relationship to the past, as well as the future.

      In response, it is suggested that a more radical critique is needed, one that seeks to disrupt the ‘modern’ political present and the contingent ground on which it rests.

      Derrida, history, poststructuralism, sociology, sovereignty, time

    373. jfngw says:

      @Bob Mack

      You can’t mention Pearly Gates without including Siggy Schmoltz, the IPO mob and Nervous O’Toole. It was a massive conspiracy, came to nothing though.

    374. Dogbiscuit says:

      Robbo. You are so running with media propaganda.Its very sad to see people on this site swallowing mainstream media guff as readily as many seem to have on here. Do you remember nothing of 2014? Remember how the media behaved over Scottish Independence? They do it with everything and the media are the chief cheerleaders for our imprisonment.Dear God what the fuck does it take to get through to some of you?I understand about Robbo he’s obtuse.Its probably congenital and as such needs managing rather than punishing but for everyone else there is no excuse for remaining ignorant and nothing to fear.You should demand your lives back.Go out as often as you wish. Did your God not gift you freedom?

    375. Dogbiscuit says:

      Cameron.Did you say ‘ keeping it real’? Seriously?

    376. Bob Mack says:


      As if you actually care.

    377. robbo says:


      Chase yirsel ya dafy.What part of that video didn’t you get?

      Yir a loon,away chase car tyres or sumit

    378. Gary45% says:

      Looks like Bunker Baby Chump is going down.
      Found out to be the worst Leader in American history.

    379. Old Pete says:

      Need to remember that Lincoln offered R E Lee command of the Union army at the start of the Civil War. Lee refused and fought for his state of Virginia eventually commanding the premier Confederate army called the Army of Northern Virginia.
      Now George Washington another well known Virginian, when he died his estate had over 300 slaves and the Yankees named their capital after him and also a huge monument to glorify him.
      Lincoln and Lee just before the start of the Civil war both thought that the Southern slaves should all eventually be freed but sent to Liberia with only ‘freedmen’ being allowed to remain in the US.
      United States history is complex but the way they have treated their BAME fellow citizens is a total disgrace.

    380. Beaker says:

      @Bob Mack says:
      7 June, 2020 at 8:27 pm
      “No that’s my false teeth shaking from the fear of the “sherrikin”.”

      Go see the dentist. Oh bugger, nope you can’t do that. Get some Blu Tac. Poundland is open 🙂

    381. Bob Mack says:


      My wife recommended staples.

    382. robbo says:

      Dogbiscuit says:
      7 June, 2020 at 8:27 pm
      Robbo. The President is the Commander in Chief of the US Army.What shit are you smoking?

      It’s pretty evident to me that you know zero,absolute zero about history .You’re a fraud puppy dug.

      By law, 18 USC 3056, under the direction of the secretary of Homeland Security, the United States Secret Service is authorized to protect:

      – The president and vice president (or other officer next in the order of succession to the office of president)

    383. Joe says:

      @old pete

      I think it was Jesse Owens who wrote in his book that he found Germany in 1936 to be more welcoming to him than the US and that Hitler acknowledged him with a wave. He said he was never acknowledged by the the Ku Klux Klan democrat president FDR nor honoured as he was in Germany despite being black.

    384. dakk says:

      The BLM protests in britin have certainly flushed out the genuine white trash britnat racists, here, and on the wider soc media.

      british nationalists,british values.

      What are they like?

    385. Ron Maclean says:

      Look out Cameron – you might be getting groomed by dog biscuit and his/her creepy cronies.

    386. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      I don’t hold out much hope for their chances, if that’s the case. 😉

      Critical Realism and Historical Sociology. A Review Article

    387. Ron Maclean says:


      Going by today’s performance they’ll soon be on a register.

    388. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ron Maclean
      There’s always hope. 🙂

    389. Stuart MacKay says:

      Re: Jesse Owens

      As usual the mainstream media never let the facts get in the way of a good story,

      Seems not much has changed in 80+ years.

    390. dakk says:

      The higher Covid death rate for BAME people has no doubt reinforced their britnat exceptionalist perspective, and emboldened them.

    391. Ron Maclean says:


      Lol – can’t argue with that.

    392. Joe says:

      @Stuart Mackay

      Thanks for clarifying

      @Ron Maclean

      Maybe someday you can point out what you disagree with. Rather than playing around with Cameron like a confused boy discovering his sexuality?

    393. Ron Maclean says:


      I always remember the golden rule – don’t listen to twats!

    394. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Seeing as it is Woke Issues Matter Day – I see Old Union Jaikey is under attack for a bit of vile Transphobic polemic.

    395. Iain mhor says:

      Whitworth spanners, on a Volvo tractor? Bloody hell those devious Vikings!
      Or just rounded heads mibbe, though I always thought AF’s were handier for rusty old metric, I’ll give you 3/8 Whitty on an 18 mill right enough – do tell for the curious…

    396. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Woke Issues Matter Day. Bollocks. 🙂

      Putting gender in political economy analysis: why it matters and how to do it

      GADN’s Women’s Participation and Leadership working group has released a Guidance Note to help practitioners to integrate an understanding of gender and its social, economic and political effects into each stage of a political economy analysis.

      Political economy analysis can help practitioners to understand the distribution of power and resources in a society and the implications for their programmatic objectives. However, political economy analysis has overwhelmingly ignored one of the most pervasive systems of power in society – that of gender.

      A gendered political economy analysis explicitly examines how gender and other social inequalities shape people’s access to power and resources, and ensures that the perspectives of women inform the process, content and use of the analysis….

    397. Alec Lomax says:

      They’re shedding a tear for a statue of slave trader.
      The Iraqis shouldn’t demolished that statue of Saddam, I suppose.

    398. Dan says:

      @Iain mhor

      You’ll mind those oldskool battery terminals use 1/4 Whit headed bolts and nuts 😉

    399. Davie Oga says:

      dakk says:
      7 June, 2020 at 10:12 pm
      The higher Covid death rate for BAME people has no doubt reinforced their britnat exceptionalist perspective, and emboldened them.

      There is no higher death rate for black people. There is a very low death rate in Nigeria. Then again, the Nigerian government put measures in place to protect their population at the onset of the crisis. Close borders, shut airports, special quarantine facilities for infected persons, not mixing them in with the general hospital population or sending them to care homes for example. “Herd immunity” never entered their public discourse. The problem in Scotland, like many other “progressive” countries, is that the measures required to control the transmission of what is effectively an imported disease are an anethma to the people in charges.

    400. CameronB Brodie says:

      The problem with western liberalism, and the source of it’s vulnerability to the woke agenda, is our politicians generally don’t posses a holistic understand the policy implications of their actions.

      Getting Real About Legal Realism,
      New Legal Realism and Clinical Legal

    401. Dan says:

      TBF I have to cut the Romans some slack with their Fiats, Lancias, and Alfa Romeos, as over the years those cars saved the Scottish Education system lots of cash.
      Because instead of numerous school chemistry departments having to buy sodium and potassium to drop into water as experiments to show how reactive metals were, the classes could just look out the windae on any rainy day and witness a 131 Mirafiori, Beta, or Alfasud reacting with Scottish H2O and dissipating back into individual independent elements on the periodic table.
      It could be said that stable and enduring Unionism in a molecular context was not a concept Italian car makers had much of a grasp of…

    402. CameronB Brodie says:

      Keeping things real is kind of vital to the protection of human rights, which residents of Scotland are denied access to by British constitutionalism (see the “Right to Development”).

      Realism and international law: the
      challenge of John H. Herz

    403. dakk says:

      Davie Oga
      ‘The problem in Scotland, like many other “progressive” countries, is that the measures required to control the transmission of what is effectively an imported disease are an anethma to the people in charges.’


      Unfortunately Scotland as part of UK has no control of these measures.

    404. Bob Mack says:

      Black people in the UK are dying 3.5 times greater than white. In the US the rate is 3 times greater than white
      Pretty emphatic.

    405. dakk says:

      Should have said BAME population of the UK.

    406. Sarah says:

      In 1707 there were less than 5000 voters in Scotland yet the Parliament was very nervous about public opinion and had to hide in the basement of a nearby building to sign up to the Act of Union.

      We all know that. So why the lack of enthusiasm on here for a demand to the Scottish Parliament to listen to those of us who think now is the time for them to hold a vote themselves, the MSPs, on dissolving the Union? We all have a vote now so if enough of us want something, Holyrood must listen.

      The EU has specified [Lisbon Treaty 2007, Articles 48 – 50] that a democratic procedure is all they require to satisfy them that a Member State has been dissolved or seceded from. They do not specify what form of procedure.

      A s30 or a referendum or a further election with dissolution in the manifesto are not therefore required.

      Those who refer to the EU’s lack of support for Catalonia are comparing apples with oranges. Scotland and England signed a Treaty and passed Acts to form the Union. Either party can therefore pass an Act to dissolve it. A country cannot be a prisoner of another. The fact that the constitution is not a devolved matter is therefore irrelevant.

      It is distressing to see The National always talking about working for Indyref2 when in fact a referendum is unnecessary. We can break free without one.

    407. Beaker says:

      @Dan says:
      7 June, 2020 at 11:33 pm

      My first car was an Austin Allegro. Total rustbucket with the hydrogas suspension that always, always went on one side first. That was if you get the bloody thing started on a damp day. The only good thing about it was the reclining seats…

      Gimme a Capri every time.

    408. CameronB Brodie says:

      Bob Mack
      There may be biological factors driving this disparity, but there will almost certainly be societal factors involved. Such as access to healthcare, education, employment and justice. The BAEM community is still marginalised and excluded as Scotland is, though the BAEM community opposed Brexit more strongly than Scotland. I suppose it is much easier for the BAEM community to recognise racism when they see it. A lot of Scots appear to think that white-on-white racism is not possible, though it is more accurate to call it chauvinistic cultural paternalism (see Brexit).

    409. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      The US Department of Justice has officially demanded Great Britain allow Prince Andrew to be questioned over his links to Jeffrey Epstein

      Harrumph, damn USA don’t these cowboys understand that our wonderful Royals were put in place by god?

      His Royal Highness Prince Andrew will be far to busy in any case involved in things…….

    410. Beaker says:

      @Sarah says:
      7 June, 2020 at 11:54 pm
      “It is distressing to see The National always talking about working for Indyref2 when in fact a referendum is unnecessary. We can break free without one.”

      That may be true, however with a 50-50 split in the polls, can you imagine what the reaction would be?

    411. HYUFD says:

      No you can’t, 55% of Scots voted to stay in the UK in 2014 in a ‘once in a generation referendum’

    412. Sarah says: December 2019 “London will never give us independence – We must Take it” explains very clearly the route to independence.

      It does not involve the need for a referendum.

      The SNP’s policy must be changed. Urgently.

    413. HYUFD says:

      Jason Smoothpiece Unless Anne Sacoolas is handed over then Andrew certainly will not be

    414. Davie Oga says:

      Bob Mack says:
      7 June, 2020 at 11:44 pm
      Black people in the UK are dying 3.5 times greater than white. In the US the rate is 3 times greater than white
      Pretty emphatic.

      Aye Bob. But they are not dying because they are black. They are dying because of socio economic conditions in the UK and US and increased exposure to the virus, occupations, housing conditions etc.A wealthy black person has no more succeptibility to the virus than a wealthy white person.

    415. CameronB Brodie says:

      The problem with your argument is it’s detached from a respect for history, Treaty law, and the principles of liberal constitutionalism. Things have moved on considerably since 2014, or had you forgotten about Brexit, Toryboy?

      Tempering Power

      Realism and idealism do better together than apart, and not merely as separate and independent viewpoints that might be gathered together but as interdependent ingredients of a whole that is generally more satisfactory than the sum of its parts taken separately.

      Realistic-idealism is not an oxymoron, but a salutary combination. Ideals are part of the human world. ‘Realism’ that does not take their existence and significance into account is empirically impoverished and programmatically unhelpful. Conversely, idealism is at worst empty or at best
      Utopian, if undisciplined by the real.

      Utopias might have their attractions and uses as regulative principles,1 but not as practical ideals, intended to be made good (even if only partially) in the real world. And constitutionalism and the rule of law are intensely practical ideals. Though closely related, they are not identical. So the first section of this article sketches some areas of overlap and distinction between constitutionalism and the rule of law.

      The second suggests one central aim they have in common: hostility to arbitrariness in the exercise of power. I then discuss different interpretations of this value, to illustrate the mutual and indispensable inter-twinings of realism and idealism involved in its pursuit.

      One of these interpretations, usually captured with terms such as ‘limiting’, ‘curbing’, ‘restraining’ power, prides itself on its tough-minded realism, and in truth it does focus on significant aspects of reality that should never be ignored. At the same time, however, it misses fundamental elements of what it seeks to describe and at the same time diminishes an ideal central to it.

      More readily to encompass that ideal I introduce the idea of tempering power, rather than ‘limiting…’, etc., and propose some reasons to prefer this term. Central is its ready availability for larger purposes, more positive ideals, for constitutionalism and the rule of law, than the crimped, negative, implications of the concepts in common use. This more positive spin turns out more realistic as well, so long as it neither forgets nor undermines the realistic foundations on which it depends.

    416. dakk says:

      Hope the BLM protests continue here as they certainly flush out the racist trash living among us.

      Know your enemy.

    417. CameronB Brodie says:

      “The problem with western liberalism….”

      Oops, that makes me sound a bit like Cummings. It would probably have been better to suggest weakness rather than problem. 🙂

      Developing a critical realist informed framework to explain how the human rights and social determinants of health relationship works

    418. robertknight says:

      FUD @ 12:15

      “55% of Scots voted to stay in the UK in 2014 in a ‘once in a generation referendum’”

      Wrong again… 55% of the 80% of the electorate in Scotland who expressed an opinion, indicated a desire to remain in the UK. (A majority of Scots who voted were apparently in favour of Independence).

      And didn’t that 55% make an excellent choice!

      All that drip drip drip effect of the too wee, too poor, too stupid Yoon mantra. The threats of out the EU with rUK and Spain ready to block any attempt to join. “Don’t leave us, lead us”, “Better Together”, it’s not ‘your’ Pound Sterling, it’s ‘our’ Pound Sterling! blah blah blah…

      Reality bites now though, eh?

      62% of the 67% of the electorate in Scotland who expressed an opinion indicated a desire to remain in the EU.

      All 32 council areas voted to Remain – even the one packed out with service personnel from furth of Scotland.

      But that’s just tough shit Scotland, suck it up! You had your chance in 2014!

      We can now now reap the result of the 55% believing the crap the newspapers and BBC churned out. We can see what happens when you let the country next door make the big decisions, courtesy of a population ten-times that of your own country; what’s good for England must by default be good for the UK. (Let’s face it, the majority in England can’t tell the frikking difference anyway).

      This is what happens when the Government elected by the country next door on 42% of the popular vote gets to tell the Government of your own country, elected on 43% of the popular vote, that “now is not the time”.

      Is it any wonder that, despite the SNP Government having been happy to mirror the UK Government’s attitude of “now is not the time”, support for Indy is +50%?

      Imagine what that 55% might have been if the Brexit and Boris combination had been envisioned back in 2014?

      No wonder the FUDs of this world clutch with utter desperation to Salmond’s off the cuff “once in a generation” remark, aimed at increasing turnout but now used as an excuse by the FUDs to run from public opinion.

      Keep hiding behind that phrase FUDs, it’s shelf-life gets shorter by the day. The next generation cometh, and this generation has a good memory, and plenty of hard evidence, with which to educate them. Sweet dreams!

    419. Robert Louis says:

      Truly excellent piece of writing, on the utterly inept, frankly pathetic SNP strategy for independence right now, by Grousebeater. Here is just a small portion of the text;

      QUOTE (link to article below) “ ignoring multiple mandates, and worse, not exploiting the May-Boris-Cummings axis, the current SNP is losing the opportunity to make significant structural changes for the better in our society. This is unforgivable.

      Inertia is not a strategy. Watching people torn from their homes and repatriated and doing nothing is not the moral example of a nation supposedly acting in everybody’s best interests. Overseeing a nation’s constitutional rights attacked with impunity, passivity is a crime.”. [My bolding]

      I can only hope some at the top of the party will take the time to read it, but knowing how they operate, they will probably dither, and wait for instruction from London.

      Day after day after day, the SNP moan about London rule, yet steadfastly refuse to do anything about it. It is like they do not know how to do political strategy, like they are naive. The goal is still wide open, all it takes is a wee bit gumption and the will to go for it.

      I truly doubt their is any other political party in the world, that with the size of its support and democratic mandates for action, would merely sit on its hands and moan about things like the SNP are doing. To put it simply, independence is there for the taking, so do something, FFS.

      Anyway, here is the link to Grousebeater’s article. I agree with every single word. The current SNP leadership needs to either get the proverbial finger out and go for independence, or step aside, and let somebody else do it. This endless dithering, provarication and indecision is literally killing Scotland and the indy moevment.

      Somebody please send it to NS.

    420. Robert Louis says:

      Sarah at 1216am,

      Totally agree. London is NEVER going to sit back and say, well, you know what, you are all so nice up there in jockland, we’ll let you have independence. It just is NOT going to happen. Independence is taken, not gifted.

      Craig Murray was right, and so are you.

    421. Robert Louis says:

      Just want to say, given recent events in the USA and the public hadwringing by some who were previously unconcerned, I bet the 49ers and the NFL are regretting treating Colin Kaepernick the way they did. He was way ahead of them all. A good man, very talented QB, treated badly.

    422. @HYUFD says:

      `55% of Scots voted to stay in the UK`

      0% of Scots voted to stay in the UK.

    423. robbo says:

      Off to a good start this morning.Well made me lol anyhow.Scroll to end.

    424. Sinky says:

      Labour politicians Tom Clarke and Clarke Gallagher attacking SNP on Covid in Herald whereas Brexit’s Brian Monteith attacks them in Scotsman.

      Reminder to them Scotland is not independent and had to follow UK policies and we don’t have Border control

    425. robbo says:

      I’m kind of hoping we won’t need to wait 4.5 years to rid ourselves of this lot,he’s still there though,unbelievable.

      What do we need to do to get shot of that Squif

    426. robbo says:

      He’s at it again folks, that Cole-Hamilton.

    427. Willie says:

      Grouse Beater has a good analysis of where the SNP currently are. Well worth a read.

      The SNP is currently not fit for purpose. But it was fit for purpose before and it can be fit for purpose again.

      The leadership and many of the comfortatti who inhabit the party need cleared out and replaced. That is the challenge and that is something that can be done. Yes a Wings list party May game the Hollyrood system, help keep the SNP in policy check but st the end of the day taking back control of the party, reestablishing its purpose, and implementing policies to restore our sovereignty and not necessarily through a referendum is what is needed.

      There will of course be resistance, and of course that will come from the establishment as well as from the current leadership and comfortable within the party The current state of the SNP leadership is after all to the establishment’s liking. An SNP rotted of the idea of independence and compliant as a devolution party, is exactly what the establishment want, and indeed now have.

      Devolution after all was something arch unionist Lord George Robertson said would kill independence stone dead. But it does not need to be that way. It was not that way under Salmond, nor would it be under someone like Cherry.

      Let us all continue to push for the change.

      Time indeed as the Grousebeater says to get our party back

    428. Papko says:

      “Reminder to them Scotland is not independent and had to follow UK policies and we don’t have Border control”

      So what input do they have then? how have they achieved such remarkable results in Scotland as opposed to elsewhere?

    429. Stoker says:

      That “we don’t have Border control” is as deceiving as anything the Britnats can throw at us. Getting police to close off roads like they’ve done in certain parts of Scotland when it suits them is well within the SNP’s remit.

      Scotland’s death toll is *relatively* good but we could have been in a far better position had Sturgeon not clung to Bozo’s arse. And yes, Sturgeon & SNP ScotGov did have knowledge this outbreak was a serious possibility. They knew the UKGov held a training/experiment exercise on it and then so did the ScotGov hold a smaller one but nevertheless they can’t plead ignorance.

      We have the powers to close-off our roads.

      Same as this 50 50 split in the polls nonsense. Most polls i’ve been seeing this last 5-months or so have had ‘Yes’ ahead. There is no “50 50 split in the polls”. In fact i can’t recall the last time i seen a credible poll that had ‘No’ ahead.

      @Sarah wrote on 7 June, 2020 at 11:54 pm:
      “It is distressing to see The National always talking about working for Indyref2..”

      I personally don’t trust The National, i’ve tried to give it time to see how it performs. I’ve been convinced now for some time that it’s purpose is to support the “progressive” route to indy that’s never going to achieve indy, ie: via a referendum. And as it does so it helps to stem the losses of its sister rag The Herald.

      Others will disagree but i’ll stick with my take on its agenda until it convinces me otherwise. And if i’m wrong i’ll hold my hands up to it no problem whatsoever. Remember, it hails from a stable that’s practiced in lying about Scotland and Scottish independence. Even The Herald rag lied about our 2014IndyRef when they stated they would reconsider their position on ScotsIndy should the Britnats not keep to their promises. And as we all know the Britnats didn’t and neither did The Herald. No, they brought out The National instead.

      Finally, if we are to get anywhere in our fight to take back our right of self-determination then there has to be serious change at the top of the SNP OR the top of the SNP need to get back on message and a far better message than the “gold standard” crap. Sooner or later we’ll get to see if the 2020 referendum transpires, just over 6 months remaining. Right! I’ve just used up my daily quota of laughter, ribs begining to crack. 😉

    430. Ron Maclean says:

      Right now the SNP is looking forward to a very comfortable future as regional governors of a devolved nation.

    431. ahundredthidiot says:

      Ron Maclean at 10:19

      Which is why they wont change direction unless forced.

      Alex Salmond needs to step up soon. When the shit hits the fan, the good, decent players in the SNP need to be swift and ruthless in their clear out of all things woke and corrupt.

      Maybe then……..maybe then…

    432. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “That “we don’t have Border control” is as deceiving as anything the Britnats can throw at us.”

      Have to agree with you @ Stoker says at 9:55 am relatively simple to do in practice

      Same with Covid testing of arrivals at airports, ferry ports and road border crossings which could and should have been done by devolved SNHS.

      I worry about the SGs slavish adherence to WM.

      Contrast this to Holyrood wins by SNP based on the fact they provide good governance expressly by not following WM by instigating radically different policies.

      People then see that not only is a different way possible it is actually preferable (removing the fear of going alone)!

      If the SNP isn’t rocking the UK Unions boat it isn’t doing its job!

      More so when that boat is being tossed about in the twin storms of Brexit and Covid-19!

    433. Mike d says:

      Ireland,finland,croatia,denmark,luxembourg,slovakia,lithuania,slovenia,estonia,latvia, All EU countries with the same or smaller populations, less natural resources than Scotland. C’mon Scotland, dont be fearties forever.lets leave this rancid broken uk.

    434. Mike d says:

      We wont be going it alone either. I’d rather have the broad shoulders of the EU backing us, than westminster sitting on our shoulders and flogging us like the donkeys we are.

    435. Mike d says:

      Robertknight 1.28am. Excellent piece of food for thought writing.

    436. Mike d says:

      Aw jock tamsons bairns? Maybe if we were aw nelson mandella’s bairns we would rediscover our spine, take to the streets and demand our independence.

    437. Ron Maclean says:

      @ ahundredthidiot 10:26am

      ‘… the good, decent players in the SNP…’

      Who are they? What are they waiting for? Are they waiting for us? Are they waiting for another mandate next year? Are they waiting for Nicola Sturgeon to give the go ahead? What if Boris says no?

      Or is it why change anything? They’ve never had it so good.

    438. Clapper57 says:

      @ Robbo @ 8.19am

      Indeed Robbo…Alex Cole-Hamilton retweeted a FAKE AUOB account’s tweet and added his toxic comments about it…will he delete both his and the fake tweet and apologise..AGAIN…seems to be a pattern to his behaviour….who knew…well us…obvs.

      So clearly we are now most definitely in a position to surmise that Alex presents lies as truth….and he’s doing deliberately too….who knew…well us obvs.

      I mean his credibility..(or lack of)…as an elected MSP is questionable even to the biggest idiot….mind you I suspect he is elected NOT for his ability more for his beliefs…as in Union uber alles….seems some voters want to be represented by Unionists, like Cole-Hamilton, with limited qualities, one of them being that he is clearly unprincipled, as he is demonstrating that he is indeed not averse to playing dirty to inflict political damage on those in opposition…which, let’s be honest, is the Lib Dem political modus operandi……hence the reason they fail to engage the maximum of seats in elections….always the bridesmaid never the bride ….who knew…well EVERYONE…obvs.

      BTW He retweeted this on the 6th June and the tweet is STILL there on his Twitter account even though people have told him it is a fake Indy account….I rest my case….

    439. ahundredthidiot says:

      Ron Maclean

      Joanna Cherry for one.

      Her Leadership will define the rest.

    440. Al-Stuart says:

      Robert Louis,

      Thank you for the link to Grousebeater’s article.

      One of his finest yet…

      But who will shake the SNP leadership?

      I can almost taste the sweet scent of Scottish Independence in the air. For a little light in the darkness, might I rely on some Irving Berlin…

      There may be trouble ahead,
      But whilst there’s Covid and Boris
      And Cummings and dread,
      Let’s face the virus and chance.

      Before the jugglers have fled
      Leaving the Clown at 10 in bed,
      Before they ask us to pay the bill,
      For making us ill,
      Let’s face the virus and chance.

      Soon we’ll be without the Loon,
      Telling his lies and doom,
      Letting the virus spread,
      With forty thousand dead,
      Let’s have Independence instead.

      Soon there will be destiny,
      Even Scots Zoomers will see,
      How Greeks in sovereignty,
      Managed just 150 lost with Coviddy.
      Let’s have Independence instead.

      There may be trouble ahead,
      Nicola Sturgeon has led,
      Sadly her vision is dead,
      Before they ask her to pay the bill
      For all her political ills.
      Let’s have Alex Salmond instead.

      Apologies to Mr Berlin.

      Sometime a little lightness of heart helps in difficult circumstances.

      Grousebeater, your article is right on the money.

      With well educated and brave people such as Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Stuart Campbell, Joanna Cherry and Grousy to name but a few, we have hope.

      Soon we will have more than hope. A political tsunami is coming.

      Once the worldwide effort to find a vaccine and/or (HIV/AIDS) pharmacological drug regimen to remove the lethality off of Covid-19 and Scottish Independence removing us from the Clown of Death squatting in Downing Street.

      Instead, we can rest assured that Alex Salmond will fire the starting gun with THE BIG BLUE BOOK, and we will look back on this wretched time of pandemic and political impotence with relief that a new beginning for Scotland this way comes.

    441. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “might I rely on some Irving Berlin…”

      The recent increase in poetry in Wings comments needs to STOP AT ONCE.

    442. Clapper57 says:

      @ Rev Stuart Campbell @ 11.59am

      Sorry I am guilty of that….probably the worst culprit on here in fact…will stop doing it.

    443. Gary45% says:


    444. Iain More says:

      Shouldn’t that be the lives of kiddy fiddlers like Saville matter.

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