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Wings Over Scotland


Us, now, or never

Posted on September 18, 2014 by

We have fifteen hours.

spiky

The next fifteen hours mark the only ones in the entire history of time in which the fate of Scotland has rested democratically in the hands of its people. In 1707 the country was sold from under its people’s feet by a tiny handful of “nobles”. Before that it was won or lost in blood and sorrow. Today, the will of the people – every man and woman with one equal vote, regardless of wealth or property – shall decide.

Voting Yes won’t magically solve our problems overnight. But they’ll be ours to own and solve for ourselves. We need not do things in the way they’ve “always been done”. We can take Scotland – a nation at once both proudly ancient and reborn afresh – and shape it in whatever form we choose.

It will be a land not inherited from our predecessors – for they never owned it to give – but lent to us by our children, to build into a place they can prosper and flourish, not be forced to leave in search of opportunity. For those already driven away, a home worth returning to. And for those who’ve never been, a welcoming beacon of hope.

All those Scotlands, shared by all of us. Something old. Something new. Something borrowed. You know the rest.

Our enemies are not the good people of England. They, like us and much of the rest of the world, suffer the injustices and indignities imposed by a ruling class which has no nation but power and no language but money.

A new feudalism grips the planet, a reversal of much of the progress of the 20th century. Workers have seen their rights diminished, and ever-greater toil yields an ever-smaller share of the rewards, which are greedily hoarded by the wealthy on a scale not seen since medieval times. Our children are placed under a yoke of enormous debt before their working lives even begin, our elderly pushed ever closer to the grave before they can rest.

Independence alone is not the solution. But it is the vital first step that makes the solution possible. Many of those in the rest of the UK, and elsewhere across the world, look enviously on the chance we hold in our hands today, and urge us to use it, to show that another way is possible.

If we vote Yes we will remain allies, comrades-in-arms and friends with our brothers and sisters to the south, and this time it will be a friendship forged from respect, not subservience or subsidy. But if we hand back power meekly to the Bullingdon elite like a cowed serf whose courage deserted him at the last moment we will have earned only their contempt, and it will be richly deserved and pitilessly exercised.

Those who rule over us had forgotten fear, except as a tool. They buy governments. They laugh in the face of the law. They own the press. The real, unelected holders and wielders of power are immune to transient politicians reliant on patronage.

But they’re afraid now.

You know it’s true. Have you ever in your life seen such blind, hysterical panic on the normally-serene faces of the insatiable rich? Have you ever before this day witnessed the privileged and powerful – the captains of industry, the commanders of armies, the self-proclaimed “masters of the universe” – in such abject, frenzied terror, cajoling and pleading and warning and bullying, saying anything they can think of to stop us?

Why do you think that is? Is it because they’re scared FOR us – they who’ve never previously cared about anything except our votes and our money, they who despise the frail and torment the vulnerable? Or is it because they’re scared OF us?

They have not been this weak in three centuries, and they will never be this weak again in our lifetimes. For let there be no mistake: they will not allow this unexpected, unforeseen peril, this democracy no longer de-fanged but suddenly red in tooth and claw, to threaten them twice.

We have no need of guns or bombs. This revolution will have no martyrs, no widows, no orphans. For fifteen precious hours our land can be won for a cross in a box. For one fleeting moment, our foes’ flank is exposed, all their mighty weapons useless.

On them, readers. On them. They fail.

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    2467 to “Us, now, or never”

    1. Weedeochandorris says:

      Map and graph here, really brings it home when you see the wee bit of blue 🙁

      http://www.cityam.com/1411046935/who-won-where-how-scottish-councils-voted-independence-referendum-results-map

    2. hetty says:

      We can all be as positive as we like, but westmonster will destroy Scotland, and the Scottish parliament may well be absolved, ffs! Ukip, tory, liblabcondem, the lot of them, taking our revenues, wasting it on wmds, meanwhile keeping people in poverty…ffs!

    3. M4rkyboy says:

      There are no Brits here bluedog.Only Scots.
      Fuck the No’s,i disown the shitebags.

    4. Doug R says:

      Absolutely heartbroken. Heartfelt thanks to Stu & all the Wingers for everthing you’ve done. This is only the end of the beginning though

    5. DoziR says:

      Hetty don’t say that it’s not true change doesn’t come like we imagined it you need to crawl before you can walk I wish people would stop being so nasty about people they said they were trying to help and care about. one and half million people nearly half the country want change. Now you are just falling for the fear thing it’s that that will get us it’s that that has gotten our people please don’t fall for it. Think about it properly if you give up now it’s all been for nothing. You folk must have led very sheltered lives and been so sheltered from pain and disappointment. You should be getting strength from this why are you letting smug monsters win so easily. Disappointment does not come close to the way you are making me feel your destroying my country with these comments get a grip. Have you ever lost a child how does this compare to that. You must all be space cadets fraudsters if you let them win. Stick a picture of Gordon Brown on your fridge look at it every day. Have you never watched the “The Men That Made us Shop” shows have a look at them and you might understand what’s happened. All your fighting talk means nothing without backbone to follow it threw. The results haven’t broken me, I’m just a middle aged woman without any experience of this stuff, your comments will though.

    6. EphemeralDeception says:

      It is now a decisive win for No.
      The SNP will be nothing more than a spectator at the next UK GE.

      I admire and support all efforts to continue to push and attack the media and the establishment ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s.

      However the SNP leadership is, understandably, talking about working with the smoke and mirros agenda for some additional responsibilities and respecting the whole once in a generation thing.

      We need to face facts. It does look like disaffected voters have somehow decided to get out and vote No. I just cannot get my head round this, regardless of the Media lies. As I said earlier Scotland is now a Region.

      People who voted no out of fear and would have liked to be independent will gradually come to regret their decision but will not be able to do a thing about it. I pity them.

      I am gutted for my parents who probably wont be around to see another referendum.
      I am gutted for the Catalans who will now have a very difficult time securing their own vote and getting it recognised by Spain. Clearly the international community will turn their heads and see it as an internal issue.

      Finally I am gutted for those who know in every fibre of their body that we needed a Yes and went out and tried to persuade others. I am lucky I now live in France and the sight of my british passport sickens me. I may have to become French, not because I feel am French but the UK is largely anti Europe and xenophobic. I don’t have to suffer that too.

    7. A. Mylchreest says:

      The relatively low vote in Glasgow certainly needs looking into. How many ballot boxes ended up at the bottom of the Clyde? How many postal votes somehow went to the wrong address?

    8. Colin Church says:

      Well done Scotchland, let’s go for the mystery box of “more powers”.
      I was happy to take a temporary hit for Scotland but to go back in the gimp box for the UK, NO THANKS well F* O**. As said many posts ago, look EU brothers in the eye or look at your feet. I will have to get used to my laces, it seems. BBC, MSM , Print, UKGOV psy-ops – FU. 1979 all over again. There is no glory in this “defeat”. In any other “foreign” campaign the MSM would have been with. I have replied to my colleagues 2 weeks ago on the ref “if you have check into Al Jazeera about what is happening in your own country there is a problem”. Disenfranchised by BT /Lib/Tory/UKIP/BBC/MSM/UKIP/WM machine. Don’t worry Jim yoor exps are safe now. Well done Brown, Darling, Alexander Bros your ermine will warm your neck. Unfortuneately SoS Carmicheal is stuck doing insurance ads in the near future. Nighty, night folks off to my GIMP box to eat my cereal. It’s at the back of the bus, best keep quiet…

    9. Terry says:

      This was never about Scotland England – not for one minute – but I bet you the English would never have voted away their sovereignty.

      To the 45 – I salute you. To the rest? I really don’t know what to say, apart from the fact you’re an embarrassment.

    10. Brisar says:

      For the first time in my life I’m ashamed to be scottish…….

    11. You and My Comb says:

      I’m gutted this morning, as I knew I would be if we lost.

      I wanted to thank Stu for his Herculean efforts to try to help us win. I’m aware that these words don’t reflect the depth of feeling that many of us have for his contribution. I am still gobsmacked at the spectacular fundraising efforts.

      I wish Stu well whatever happens in the future and hope he can find a job that pays him a lot more than the minimum wage. His talents surely deserve it.

      Thanks to all show have contributed here. It’s been an interesting ride.

    12. Calgacus says:

      THIS WAS NOT A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION.

    13. David Smith says:

      Bluedog.

      Take your Butcher’s Apron waving Brit triumphalism elsewhere.
      I’m no Brit and I never will be.

    14. mr thms says:

      I disagree about the SNP being a spectator at Westminster. I can’t see why we can’t have the same number of pandas in Scotland as Labour and Tory MPs

    15. hetty says:

      Meant dissolved!

    16. heedtracker says:

      BBC R4 hysterical with excitement over the thrill of power which is what it’s all been about. The next thing is getting Labour back in power in Holyrood which is more than likely. Shock and awe works.

    17. john king says:

      Bluedog,

      Not now bluedog, not now
      shush now theres a good dog, shush

    18. Tamson says:

      Way too much negativity on here for my liking. Remember his site was born out of need to expose the mainstream media’s lies and misinformation. This result was only secured through mainstream media lies and misinformation: we’ve got decades of that to unravel, and it’s astonishingly difficult.

      The Unionist parties have made a rod for their own back, promising meagre devolution before the next GE (dressed up by the media as Devo-Max). When they fail to deliver even that, we must make sure every No voter sees it.

      Anyway, it’s another day. Life goes on, and hope remains. Off to somewhere more positive, like Glasgow. Peace, all.

    19. M4rkyboy says:

      The secretary of state for scotland was giving talks the past couple days saying he wants scotland partitioned!
      What sort of fucking leadership is that?
      Staggering,honestly

    20. Weedeochandorris says:

      @Lesley-Anne feet up and let others carry this for a while. Rest and regroup. Thinking about Stu and how he must be feeling. 🙁

    21. boris says:

      We may have lost a battle but the war goes on. After the next election it might just be that Scotland sends a few more SNP MP’s to London just to add to the mix. UKIP will gain seats and the LIB/Dems will be wiped out, The Tory’s will link with UKIP and form a government then we go for the next referendum. England votes to leave the EU but Scotland elects to remain with the EU. Mexican stand off?? What happens next?

    22. Colin Church says:

      Proudscotsbuts – let one of your reps write now and in one year your vision of what it is and what it will be to live in a future state in Scotland. Thre is no UKOK now or ever.

    23. Helena Brown says:

      Can I say that I thank everyone here for all their work and that those you worked for so hard do not deserve you.
      Well off out of the country glad that so many many years ago I decided not to have children for Britain.
      I will eventually feel sorry for the NO voters but not until they get their due punishment. As I said to my two friends in the States. They have chosen to tie themselves to the rotten corpse of the UK instead of having the courage to be the 14th Richest country in the world, how stupid is that.

    24. Donald says:

      I haven’t felt this depressed since my parents passed away years ago, I’m only glad they are not around to feel the shame and anger.

    25. vambomarbeleye says:

      One of the worst days of my life. Flying back into Glasgow tonight. Got to walk under that gucking uk border sign.
      You might rightly feel down just now but the fight still goes
      on. I think we should still wear our yes badges with pride. Because we stood up
      for a better Scotland. There are uk elections next year to fight for. How is the political map in Scotland going to look then.

    26. Big Jock says:

      Yes guys if only the 45% of us could form our own new nation somewhere. Sadly we have been abandoned. Nearly half the Scottish electorate disenfranchised. Well done UK you showed us eh!

    27. ThomPy says:

      My ballot paper didn’t have a question on it. I just assumed it hadn’t changed. Was taken aback when I saw it as the paper was not as I expected it to look but with no photos allowed, it’s all in the past.

      Well done all. Keep up the good fight. See you all next time.

    28. Robert Louis says:

      All the unionists want is for us to walk away defeated, but that is not what we will do. In case nobody has noticed one hell of a lot of Scots put their faith in us yesterday. It was not an 80:20 defeat, it was a narrow one.

      Yes, it’s hard, but look folks we are on the cusp of changing Scotland. Let’s not just walk away, and make it easy for them. Let’s not start fighting amonst each other.

      As I said earlier, this is just the beginning, we must not let those who put a cross in the YES box (and there were a lot of them) down.

      Some here accuse those who voted no of being cowards, well I’m really sorry, but if we here walk away now, then we too are cowards. Nobody ever said it would be easy, we are taking on the machine of the British empire, and their media sockpuppets in Scotland.

      The fight continues apace. No stopping now. Let’s get the neverendum into action. It is what London and Labour fear most.

      Oh, and for heavens sake, please do not ever buy ANY ‘scottish’ newspaper again, and get rid of your TV license. Let’s starve the media liars out of business.

    29. Calgacus says:

      Bluedog, your canny folk are nothing but greedy ("Tractor" - Ed)s who have just killed Scotland.

    30. Helena Brown says:

      Calgacus you are right but the SNP forgot that the British State does not do FREE and FAIR.

    31. DoziR says:

      Why are you people letting them win, I don’t understand, is this an online game site, I thought you were intelligent people engage your brain soon please or I will explode.

    32. Lesley-Anne says:

      I know Weedeochandorris. I was just thinking here I am going on about how I’m feeling and yet it should really be Stu. I can not begin to think how he feels at this moment. Stu more than anyone I know has worked tirelessly for independence only to have it shoved down his throat for being so upity as to think we could possibly be an independent nation.

      I know that after Stu has taken a few days off or even a week or two to compose himself then he’ll be back like the rest of us, ready to get stuck into the next fight whatever that fight is going to be.

      No one on this site, or any of the other pro independence sites are quitters. We all sound dejected and gutted just now but we WILL return. Unlike the cowards who were too gutless to believe in a better way WE have the spine and the courage to carry on.

    33. heedtracker says:

      The Unionist parties have made a rod for their own back, promising meagre devolution before the next GE (dressed up by the media as Devo-Max).

      The people of Scotland decided they can’t run whatever they think this region of Britain is and that’s that. From Trident 2 right across to food banks and royals, we’re British and I hope to god I never hear a proud Scots but start singing flower of Scotland again. It was a massive onslaught of UKOK FUD and now they are going to have the time of their lives. BBC licence fee men have a spring in their step today.

    34. Marie clark says:

      Morning folks, well like the rest of you I’m a bit bewildered,but I could see the writing on the wall before I went to bed just after midnight. I’m still puzzled by the fact that no were declaring victory before the ballot boxes were even at the counting places. Something weird has happened.

      I feel totally and utterly disgusted at these creeping crawling selfish bastards. Me first, to hell we the rest of you. I don’t even feel anger, just totally scunnered.

      Well they deserve all they get and more when it starts coming down the line anytime soon. The sad fact is, the rest of us have to put up with it as well. I hope no voters never ever complain to me about what westminster will do.They will receive no sympathy whatsoever, and a reminder that it was what you voted for, so go and bile yer heid and gie me peace.

      Thanks wingers, we fought the good fight, sad that it wasn’t enough. Wonder how it will feel when it finally dawns on you that you betrayed your former country and its people. A bloody region of England, who knew.

    35. M J Grant says:

      It’s coming yet for a’ that.

      People, we need to stop being defeatist in the face of a defeat which is still in so many ways a win. We cannot be ashamed of our efforts, of our beliefs, of massive participation, of the energising and re-enfrachising of thousands of voters, of a massive vote for YES in the face of a concerted and almost unequivocal mass media campaign for no. We arra people, this country will only ever be the same if we give up now. So it’s a vote for the union – so we take our campaign for social justice to Westminster. So it’s a vote for the union – but by a smaller margin than seemed possible even eight weeks ago.

      Get some sleep, regroup, organise, go forward. It’s coming yet for a’ that.

    36. hetty says:

      DoziR
      I have had plenty of pain in my life andI do not wish for more just because some selfish, greedy people voted no to having a better, more forward, looking modern, fairer Scotland. I am being realistic, the dogs will be let out of their cage from westminster, no point pretending otherwise.
      We struggle already to keep our heads above water, that is now set to get very very difficult indeed with the austerity plans. We can all hold our heads high, but we cannot control the tide of damage from the uk gov, unfortunately. Very sad.

    37. MIa D says:

      Nigel Farage and MEP Patrick O’Flynn already demanding that the Barnett formula be abolished and that the number of Scottish MPs be reduced.

      http://www.ukip.org/nigel_farage_a_voice_for_england
      https://twitter.com/oflynnmep

    38. Colin Church says:

      Futures Markets in turmoil. Vaseline price rocketing as Westminster plans their attack. Bend over Scotland, here comes the Bulligdon boys. Ashamed. The one nation who said no to running our own affairs. Really not interested in those who will squeal foul.

    39. M4rkyboy says:

      I hope we leave a scorched earth for the nawbags.

    40. thoughtsofascot says:

      That is a despicable thing to say, though4scotland, we yes voters are upset enough, we know whats coming but please do not wish it on us. There will be many angry people today.

      Is it really? We lost because the majority of people were too thick to realize what is coming. Its painful to say it, because there are many on our side that don’t deserve this, but Scotland voted for the fires of hell, and the fires of hell it will get. That’s the truth of the matter. We have all known that for a very long time.

      We all tried. We tried so hard and fought against the entire establishment, but they played divide and rule with the people and won.

    41. hetty says:

      And yes, it is a bit strange the bookies were paying out to no lot before a vote had even been cast.

    42. Kirsty says:

      DoziR,

      What do you mean they didn’t know better? They were told, there’s information freely available to anyone who could be bothered to read it. It is entirely their fault and they should have known better. You are not the only one who waited all their life for this, I don’t intend to stop trying and I think we got enough of the vote to merit that we keep pushing forward. But I don’t want to hear lame excuses for people who had every opportunity to find out what the real facts were but couldn’t be bothered.

    43. Grendel says:

      Thank you for all your efforts, every one of you.
      We did our bit.
      Today I’m ashamed to call myself a Scot.
      Now I have to explain to my daughter why the rest of Scotland failed us.

    44. M4rkyboy says:

      What i cant get my head round is how the Naws had to pay folk or bus them in from england to get any feet on the ground yet in the absence of any support and up against a huge army of yes volunteers,they still win.

    45. hetty says:

      thoughtofascot
      I know what you mean, I feel so angry, and sad. Maybe we can look at any analysis because there were strange goings on with the bookies paying out etc…before voting started, lots folk were saying yesterday that it was dodgy. Yes we tried really hard, were up against the establishment made up if some very rich and v powerful unsavourues. The no voters have a lot to answer for however.

    46. Abaron Nomore says:

      This site has been my home for so long and always a source of solace. We are all on the same side, all grieving but it is clear that some are at a different stage in the grieving process from others. Anger is one stage and many are at that point but we will move beyond that,each in our own time.

      Alex Salmond this morning has inspired me. Wee Ginger Dug, so recently bereaved, has inspired me. Now is the time to reach within ourselves and find strength to carry on. We must not let this great movement disintegrate. We have come so far, it’s just the destination is not quite so near as we thought.

    47. Grouse Beater says:

      It was always No.
      The entire press and media anti-truth.
      Corrupt politicians exercising massive power.
      Too many English part of the fabric.

      How sad.
      We get no oil revenues.
      The weapons of death stay.
      We remain a colonised nation.
      Weeks of derision and more ridicule to endure.

      But the No’s will live to regret it.
      They made promises knowing they could not carry the whole Scottish nation with them.
      The big question now is, will they carry the English with them to deliver those powers?

      Time to regroup.
      Time to demand the fairer society they said was right and just.

      If they do not …

    48. ScottieDog says:

      Folks,
      People 45pc , machine 55pc,
      Not a bad result and this is just the start.

      When you are out today hold your head up high. You have a clear concience.

    49. Tarian says:

      A lot of you need to get a fucking grip. Don’t let bitter disappointment ruin what you have achieved so far. You have taken on the monstrous Hydra of Wesminster, MSM and the corporations and have managed to win over almost half the population, particularly the young, and this is the future. This is not the end of the journey but a staging post. Don’t cave in and go to the dustbin of history. Get back on your feet and start pushing hard.

    50. thomas says:

      I am currently re reading a book i first read years ago. Tranters the bruce trilogy.

      The defeats and heartache that man went through all those years ago , suffering sickness , his brothers executed , good friends slaughtered and his daughter and sister hung in cages.

      The inspiring thing was how the man kept going in the face of such defeat to ultimate victory in the end.

      if at first you dont succeed , try try again.

    51. Roboscot says:

      So it’s ’79 again and not ’97. With Highland left to declare it looks like we have achieved a 44.5% vote for Yes. That still makes us a very real threat to the Union.

    52. JGedd says:

      I have to say, now that the vote is in, that in my heart, I was not convinced that the vote would be Yes. Sometimes in the face of other campaigners optimism, I would be temporarily buoyed up on hope, but I’m afraid, soon a little dissenting voice within would speak of caution.

      I know I was picking up from people who declared themselves undecided, an underlying resistance to the message. No matter the provenance of the information given to them, despite the encouragement to seek out the information from sites like this, I sensed them sliding away, under the surface of apparent openness. I’m afraid that in everyday life, over the years, I have come across this apparent veneer of approachability and have come to realize that behind it there is often a closed mind concealing true intent. Human beings are good at dissembling and as social animals, they practice it all the time.

      I am still so dismayed, however, with what has happened. I got carried away with everyone else’s enthusiasm, which was catching, and suppressed my own misgivings. I told myself that it was my hard-earned cynicism which was getting in the way. Now sadly I know that my own instincts were correct. This area is one of the No areas and perhaps it was easier to pick up the coldness behind the seeming polite attentiveness.

      I give all due respect to Rev Stu and all the others who fought tirelessly against the wall of noise coming from the Unionist media to get the truth out there. Unfortunately deceit won, and that is a bad lesson to teach the corrupt establishment. I am sorry for the poor and disadvantaged who will be the first to suffer from a triumphant, unfeeling political class.

    53. Cuilean says:

      This ‘win’ is the most joyless one imaginable. Where are the hundreds of thousands out celebrating their ‘win’? A ‘win’ gained through people voting out of fear rather than hope and the complete absence of a population’s expressed elation confirms the motives in voting NO’s were coerced out of fear and ‘jam tomorrow but never jam today’. But heyho, when the so-called last minute panicked VOWS of devomax are chucked in the bin, when Barnett is abolished instead of increased as prmised, when we are ruled by UKIP/Tory until 2020, when the 80% austerity cuts hit home, when the NHS is privatised, when we are taken out of the EU by a xenophobic ‘little England’, when we see captured Scots soldiers being beheaded by IS in another illegal war not sanctioned by the UN, when Trident is renewed, when the UK collapses under its unsustainable debt and interest rates rise, not to mention food prices (when do they ever go down, by the way)? then I will have great pleasure in telling anyone who dares to moan at me about this, ‘Well did you vote NO on 18 September 2014? When they say actually I did, then I can tell them, then YOU are the creator of this; not anyone or anything else, YOU.

    54. M4rkyboy says:

      Was it the age thing?
      There is a breed of blazer wearing, cuntish rotarian bowls club members that infests scotland.
      Did these fuckers swing it?

    55. thomas says:

      45 per cent voted yes. within toucning distance.

      lets give westminster enough rope now to finally hang themselves.

      We will get there in the end , just keep the heid and carry on. one battle lost the war continues.

    56. hetty says:

      M4rkyboy
      The silent no’s?

    57. Patrician says:

      my son just announced; this is it, as soon as he finishes University in 4 years he is leaving to go live in a country that has some self respect 🙁

    58. Calgacus says:

      Labour you got into bed with the tories and killed our country, our dreams, our hopes. I am not angry, I am devastated, I feel like wearing a black armband.
      Goodbye

    59. thomas says:

      interesting to see how the baby boomers voted.

      anyway , lets keep supporting sites like wings and adopt a cold calm energy to victory next time. there will be a next time friends i promise you.keep smiling.

    60. Weedeochandorris says:

      #indiref2 and #indiref2020 already started on twitter. Take your time but we’ll need our generals up and running again soon. We need you all guys, just sayin.

    61. criiscult says:

      I’m away to get some sleep. I may be going through a list in my head of the companies that threatened us though. That list may become one written on paper. Bitterness will not be by thing, but I think I’d rather take my custom to companies who didn’t get involved in a democratic process. I think we all know that business deals with risk and opportunity. They must have factored in the risk that some people will boycott their products or services.

    62. A. Mylchreest says:

      I’m looking at the map and remembering the Holyrood election map, the one on the wall when the Edinburgh Agreement was signed. That one had most of Scotland voting in the SNP, with the main resistance in the traditional Labour areas of Glasgow etc. And yet now these seem to be where the YES vote won, and the vast swathes of SNP territory all voted NO by c60%. WTF is going on here? We need to understand this before we go any further. People voted in the SNP with a landslide, which gave them the mandate for the referendum, and then come the referendum they voted for the status quo. Is there a psychiatrist in the house?

    63. goulashman says:

      The energy, hope and compassion for the vulnerable and hitherto voiceless that gave YES its amazing life must somehow be kept alive. I am not sure how. My ow children, much involved in the campaign, but hitherto sickened by the current political ambience, are depressed beyond words. Will they and other young people like them abandon politics, the game of the lath and ideologically right wing, altogether? I fear so. Ugly times ahead

    64. heedtracker says:

      It was the biggest ever UKOK propaganda war in peacetime and they clearly thought they could lose, judging by the likes of BBC and Graun hysterics. We are not like say Norway or Denmark or Sweden and we have to accept that. They won with FUD but they did win. England and everything. they represent is the country Scotland wants to be run by and after the way the media have piled in down there, it’s not going to be pretty.

    65. fred blogger says:

      we did good in so many ways, we have learnt so much.
      how we get power out of this, for the common good i have no idea.

    66. Who really in their heart thought we were going to be handed a YES result.After all the crap we’ve been put through.
      THIS IS NOT THE END .THIS IS THE BEGINNING.
      I WANT ANOTHER REFERENDUM AS SOON AS WE CAN GET IT.
      I WILL NOT ACCEPT THEIR SKEWED RESULT.
      THEY HAVE BROKEN THE CAMPAIGHN RULES WITH THEIR 3 AMIGO’S LATE DECLARATION OF MORE POWERS DURING THE 28 DAY PURDAH PERIOD.
      .THAT ALONE NEEDS CHALLENGED LEGALLY ASAP!!!!
      ITS NOT OVER FOR ME OR 1.6 MILLION SCOTS(their untrustworthy figure)WHO VOTED YES.FUCK THEM AND THEIR LIES .
      I WILL NOT LIE DOWN.

    67. Robert Louis says:

      Nearly half the people of Scotland voted YES. If we walk away now, then it is us who are the cowards, giving up when it gets tough.

      The fight goes on.

    68. Cuilean says:

      Right let’s regroup and steal a march on the elite whilst they party (but not their voters). The vows will be broken long before the May General Election next year. At that GE the loose alliance of the SNP, Greens, Scottish Labour For Indepenence, Scots Socialists etc. etc. MUST form an alliance if just for the GE of May 2015 and we will put up 51 YES MP candidates. I think we would get 51 MPs elected. Not just that but it would oust Jim Murphy, Ian Davidson, Douglas Alexander etc. etc. Let’s take the fight right to the heart of the Beast. 51 YES MPs at Westminster. then in a hung UK parliament Scotland could have them by the short & curlies.

    69. Lesley-Anne says:

      Tarian says:

      A lot of you need to get a fucking grip. Don’t let bitter disappointment ruin what you have achieved so far. You have taken on the monstrous Hydra of Wesminster, MSM and the corporations and have managed to win over almost half the population, particularly the young, and this is the future. This is not the end of the journey but a staging post. Don’t cave in and go to the dustbin of history. Get back on your feet and start pushing hard.

      To be fair Tarian everyone on here has put their heart soul and untold number of hours into working to win a YES vote. It is understandable therefore, in my view, that folks now vent off in different ways.

      We all know that the fight is not over it has only just begun. However, we are all human beings and as such we can not just turn our emotions on and off at the flick of a switch. We all need time to let off steam, and yes even mourn this loss. In time we will all regain our strength and get back on board ready for the next big fight. Please ease up a wee bit on your remarks about your fellow posters on here. We have all been on a mental roller coaster and we are all extremely knackered. What we don’t need at this point in time are people jumping down our throats. We just need some time, space and yes even understanding as to what everyone has been through.

    70. THE TWISTED MEDIA COVER AND TRECHERY ALSO NEEDS CHALLENGED

    71. Colin Church says:

      What has happened? We have surrendered a fledging country. Most, in any other circunstance, would encourage and cheer tis opportunity. Here we denigrate, belittle and mock. Give airtime to the wealthy, married elite (Yes you Snow). Is there any joy today? or just a smug “eat yer cereal, back o’ the bus” Can you imagine the scenes around Scotland for a YES/ HOPE vote WIN.? That will be a dream then… National anthem / warrior poets (Sorry Alec the prose was magnificient) – NO MORE. CRINGE WINS.

    72. Robert Louis says:

      M J Grant,

      Well said. I shall be wearing my YES badge today with pride. Almost half the people of Scotland voted YES. Now is not the time to give in, or we let all those people down.

      Take a break and then we keep going. No stopping now.

    73. Snode1965 says:

      Always knew it would come down to convincing the, new labour voting faux middle class thatcherites, I guess we just came up a little short. Anyway Cameron just said that it’s gone for a generation, well that will be decided by our peoples vote, and whether the union can deliver their promises.

    74. Ken500 says:

      Bunch of liars. Msm liars. They can rot in bell, allow with westminstsr crooks. A sad day for democracy. Vote SNP before there is another referendum in Scotland. The SNP will hold the balance of power in westmidden. Get rid of Trident and the lying Unionists. This is only the beginning.

    75. fred blogger says:

      yes, that’s the spirit, re group, fight on, it’s the right thing to do! 🙂

    76. highseastim says:

      A long time since I felt so down, particularly upset with the fact that my own area Moray voted no by 58% to 42%. Been watching a bit of RT this morning, the reporter I saw saying that Scotland had voted for more austerity, a sorry state of affairs.

    77. Ann says:

      Well Scotland has spoken. I am gutted – this is the end of the line for me. I will never live in an independent Scotland in my lifetime.

      I am finished with politics – I will vote in the Scottish elections but never again in the general elections. This is worse than when Maggie Thatcher kept on being voted in – it is beyond my understanding how people still expect Westminster to deliver.

      I am going to avoid all media for a while – thanks to everyone here and hope you have the energy and enthusiasm to carry on the fight.

    78. McDuff says:

      300 years ago a bunch of Nobles sold Scotland, but at least they got some money for it.
      Yesterday the people of Scotland gave it away for nothing.
      I can`t now ever see this country becoming independent, but simply absorbed into England.

    79. goulashman says:

      If only YES could become a Scottish Political Party, its different elements coming together. What a power this could be. What a hope. For the Unionists are the new Tory Party in Scotland, led by Brown and ("Quizmaster" - Ed) Darling

    80. john king says:

      Kirsty says
      “What do you mean they didn’t know better?”

      I totally agree with you Kirsty,
      I was standing outside the polling station for 8 hours yesterday and had to give up and leave the other guy to it, I simply couldn’t stand anymore,(in every sense of the word)I was truly exhausted.

      I had this idiot come up to me (about 25y/o) with a clearly agressive attitude demanding to know why he should vote yes, and each time I tried to give him a reason he would fire a volley of question (no one could answer) but needed chapter and verse answers or he would vote no,

      I have to admit I lost my temper with him and told “if you want to commit suicide then go ahead, be my guest, thankfully another yes volunteer saw how that conversation was going and she gently steered the clown away from me,
      If it hadnt been for her I think the (hovering) policewoman was going to arrest me along with my new found freind,

      One of this geniuses questions was, How are we going to defend the oil rigs when there are no warships in Scotland?

      How can we claim the oil is ours when everyone knows the oil companies own it?
      and on and on the litany of facile questions went!

      and I just snapped, held it together for two years and let myself down within hours of the close of poll!

      Im sorry doziR if you think my (capitulation) is nothing more than cowardice but you could not be more wrong, sometimes it take more courage to just turn and walk away than it takes to stand and fight,
      I WILL NOT ever again subject my precious wife to the relentless daily grind of canvassing and debating, it has put years on her (and no doubt me as well) I have more important things to do with my life that try to persuade the unpersuadable!

      May all the torments of hell be visited upon these soulless people!

    81. heedtracker says:

      http://www.theguardian.com/uk the joy of victory. Fuck knows what paper to buy now as am never putting a penny in their pockets again. The Press and Journal fought a really dirty war but are now also hysterical with their win.

    82. Murray McCallum says:

      This is pretty painful. Let’s wait and see if any positives can be scraped from the floor. It may take some time.

    83. M4rkyboy says:

      The only pride the naws can derive from this is in the height they have raised themselves to off the crumpled heap of the valiant,noble,proud and decent Scottish patriots who they have destroyed in conjunction with their masters and the nexus of corruption that they sought to protect.
      Destroying the spirit of your country and thwarting its independence will haunt them to their graves

    84. Robert Louis says:

      Ready for the fight.

      Are you all up for it?

    85. Auld Rock says:

      Be not despondent, we lost the first battle but the war is not lost, they now have to deliver on their false promises. My fear is that they will not deliver as I’m just listening to the Sec State for Portsmouth saying that we should not have to revisit again. Sorry Alistair you had better deliver for there are dark forces who might well now come to the fore and sadly the British Empire never, ever learned thicare mongering s lesson, Kenya, Cypress, India, Ireland et al. My forefathers fought and gained Irish Independence so now I’d be happy to take this type of action but it would be with a very, very sad heart.

      But first stop paying your TV licence and stop buying the evil scaremongering scum that call themselves ‘National’ newspapers, you know them so DO NOT BUY. Let’s put them out of business so that they never again pollute peoples minds with lies.

      For myself my house goes on the market and I’ll be moving to a country free of Westminster corrupt, establishment rule.

      Just listened to Cameron and he’s appointed to a Lord, I say no more – BASTARDS.

      Auld Rock

    86. M4rkyboy says:

      For me,a scorched earth is the only thing the naws deserve.
      I wont engage in the systems they sold my countrys independence to preserve.
      I am done with the UK.

    87. heedtracker says:

      The next thing is watching same NO vote and teamGB media blame SNP Scots.gov for austerity UKOK rule but there’s is no balance anywhere at all.

    88. Colin says:

      This is a mandate for westminster to now do whatever it likes to us and apart from the 2012 Scotland act, which we didn’t want anyway, there will be nothing else from them.

      A sad day in the history of the world, and a humiliating day for Scotland, we are now just England’s bitches.

    89. Juan P says:

      @Robert Louis

      Agreed.

      Deeply saddened by the result but the fight must go on.

      Supporters of independence have gone from being decried as the lunatic fringe to making up nearly half the country.

      We only need to win once and we will win one day.

      All the unionists have bought themselves today is a little more time to preside over a crumbling empire.

      Let’s keep going and let’s keep Wings going too. For the sake of all our sanity.

    90. Auld Rock says:

      Sorry errors throughout but I think you get the ghist.

      Auld Rock

    91. crisiscult says:

      let’s take a leaf out of Robert Louis’ and Cuilean book. Pull together. A yes party for General Elections? Viable?

    92. ken500 says:

      The msm liars to blame and Westminster crooks. Vote snp and hold the balance of power at westminster, until Scotland gets independence from the lying crooks. Get rid of trident and the lying unionist parties.

    93. Wp says:

      While its hard to take, we will get there. 55% is not a landslide and they know it. Most countries have to go through it a lot tougher than this to get independence. The real fight starts now.

    94. Colin says:

      This is a mandate for westminster to now do whatever it likes to us, and apart from the 2012 Scotland act which we didn’t want anyway, there will be nothing else from them.

      A sad day in the history of the world, and a humiliating day for Scotland, we are now just England’s bitches.

    95. fred blogger says:

      heedtracker
      we don’t need newspapers any more, don’t buy them.
      over 1.5m people is massive spending power?!

    96. geeo says:

      So much for sleep !

      Too fuckin angry.
      This IS the end, do people seriously believe the chance we just had will ever be allowed again ?

      Not a hope.
      And to be honest, the same selfish bastards will shaft us again even if we did.

      Dont give me the “once the no voters see the error of their vote” pish either, they were told about 1979-1997, did they listen ? Did they fuck.

      We are now about to make a MASSIVE mistake by patting each other on the back saying unite and fight again, but the reality is, the bastards want that.
      If the SNP hang about in power, we will be hammered even harder.

      Anyone with a tactical brain would be advocating a mass resignation of the SNP government forcing an election RIGHT NOW to cause maximum disruption to the upcoming GE election. If the SNP flat refuse to put up candidates then labour win.
      Labour then would be under INCREDIBLE pressure to stop the onslaught from the tories, which of course labour could not stop.

      These bastards WANT the SNP to continue so the inevitable cuts to services currently protected by moving the budgets around, like free prescriptions, tuition fees etc will be spun as the fault of the SNP.

      Resign en masse, warn everyone what is coming then laugh at labour try stopping it.
      Sure beats being the fuckin patsy.

    97. Lesley-Anne says:

      We lost last folks. We know that. NOW we start to fight back! As Robert put up earlier:

      Step 1) NO ONE buys ANY newspaper of ANY description ever again, be it a daily, weekly, regional, Sunday or what ever. We MUST hurt these two faced LYING toerags where it hurts them the MOST, in their sales! How are these hypocrites going to be able to go to their shareholders meetings and explain the sudden massive drop in sales figures if 1.6 MILLION people suddenly stop buy their rags?

      Step 2) Everyone who still is paying their TV Tax STOP paying the tax. How will BBC be able to carry on in its present form without the TV Tax of 1.6 Million people?

    98. ann says:

      Totally gutted.

      I’ll be telling my lass to get herself out of this country once she gets her qualifications.

      Going up North this morning for her year 2 graduation.

      One comment from my cousin from a conversation yesterday afternoon has stuck in mind who I think was actually a don’t know and would have went to the polling station yesterday evening putting an X in No. She said “The devil you do, the devil you don’t.”

      Well the devil won.

      GOD help Scotland. We’re in a for a rough ride and deserve the mock and ridicule that we will get and have absolutely no right to defend our fellow citizens, but I don’t blame them.

      I’ll keep my peace, but I will never forgive.

      Before I leave today, I will be going down the stairs to take down my saltire which has been fluttering proudly in all weathers night and days for 8 years and will NEVER be put back up until INDEPENDENCE is here. It doesn’t deserve to be fluttering in the sight of a huge big union flag just of the street from me.

      A biased media and fear won the day.

      Not hope.

      FEAR and in the main the targeted elderly. The very people that we should be protecting and sheltering with all our hearts are more than likely the ones that aritifically pushed that NO vote to over 55%.

    99. faolie says:

      Well, glad the Aberdeen result forced me to bed. I rise to see, what I think, is a massive No vote and I really can’t believe it. Really can’t. Was certain that despite the massed ranks of MSM and UK Government, that we would win.

      But we didn’t, we lost. So sad after all this time, we get our referendum, and we vote against independence. Shattered at the actions of my fellow Scots.

    100. Colin Church says:

      Conned, Did not recognise or detect a seemingly fall back YES to a NO. John Major on a local Scotland level… Will never cheer a national team again – rugby? Football? Archie McPherson scaring pensioners ringing in my ears. …”and be a nation again”? Come, the world, to the Ryder Cup. The greens will be watered by shame and self interest.

    101. Tony Little says:

      @Cuilean

      I guarantee that when all of your fears come true in just a couple of years time, you will be unable to find a single ordinary person in Scotland who will admit to having voted NO.

      I am truly saddened today. I stayed with the results all night and will now go back to my job working in small countries that had to fight to gain their Independence. Scotland was handed this on a plate, but in the end too many people did not want to take it. maybe we needed a war and not a peaceful democratic process for people to appreciate just what it was they were being offered.

      Who’s to blame?

      Well to my mind the BBC has a lot of responsibility for their lies and totally biased broadcasts. Why anyone who voted YES will still pay the BBC Tax after this I do not know.

      The MSM, certainly. The 99% of anti-democracy rags deserve to all fail. And I predict they will in the next few months.

      The business leaders in hock with Westminster for lying and threatening their employees.

      The YES campaign as well. The final two weeks were a disaster strategically in my view.

      So where to now? Over the next weeks when this mythical beast of Devo-minimus is revealed for the charade that it is, what will anyone do about it? Will Scots rise up in anger and say they were lied to, or will they capitulate once again, and say to Westminster, that’s OK we didn’t deserve it anyway. Take our oil, take our taxes, we are just a small region of England named Scotlandshire

      Yes, I am feeling bitter this morning. Sorry to everyone who did their best. Our fellow Scots deserved better.

    102. M4rkyboy says:

      Juan
      We had to campaign in the shadow of that crumbling empire and convince people that its projection onto scotland was a falsehood.
      All but impossible when everything is done within that empires systems.

    103. Well for me, the thing I got from this was astonishment at how many people were politically engaged. Never in my life have I seen such massive numbers of people really hungry for progressive social and political change. I always said, even if there is a “no” vote, we are headed in a positive direction. The long game is playing out here.

    104. tonymac says:

      SORRY I’M FUCKING SPEECHLESS

    105. I am gutted. As I said on here once or twice, Scotland has a long record of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. It has been happening since the time of Wallace, when he was let-down by the Scottish nobles.

      We joined England to form the UK, because a small number of nobles sold us out.

      Of course we were fighting the British Establishment, and, if we didn’t know before – that Britannia waived the rules – well, we ken noo, after that last-gasp intervention of the Three Amigos and Yesterday’s Man – Crash Gordon.

      A Tory friend of mine assured me last week – the silent majority would vote No. I didn’t believe him, I thought the vibrant, noisy, colourful, determined energy of the grass-roots Yes campaign would carry the day.

      I was wrong. We have lost this battle, but, even if our descendants have to wait until the day after the last barrel of oil comes ashore, Scotland will be free.

      This morning, I feel like our Yes campaign is a bit like the Tartan Army. We are passionate about our cause, we make a lot of noise, but, at the end of the day, we fail.

      I long for the day this will change. But, it is not us who have the problems, it is the winners. They have promised us change and, what they see as, a better form of governance.

      Let there be no illusions about this, the three Westminster parties face a monumental task getting this through Westminster. Already we know, the MPs from the Tory shires simply will not countenance this.

      We know the shadow of Nigel Farage and UKIP and the looming Westminster General Election will divert attention from what they do for Scotland.

      IF they get it right, I could live with “Devo-Max”. But, Westminster must change. The currently largely disenfranchised poor of the North of England have to be taken cognisance of.

      If we get a more-federal UK, good and well. It will not be full independence, but, we will make it work.

      But, ah hae ma doots.

      The Proudscotsbut have won – the bastards.

    106. fred blogger says:

      Lesley-Anne
      yep! there are so many ordinary pacifist things we can do.

    107. heedtracker says:

      The worst part of it is this is a mandate for No change in Westminster, City and consumer debt socio economics and ofcourse the UKOK war machine goes on from Trident 2 and pointless aircraft carriers for bombing the Middle East but that’s what real power is all about and Scotland handed them even more. They looked like they had won by the time the wretched BBC coverage started last night which makes no sense either but power corrupts.

    108. Weedeochandorris says:

      @hetty. I think the ‘silent No’s’ that they started banging on about before the vote, the silent No’s that were going to save them, heralded a stitch up. I don’t know how they did it but it smelled as soon as they started that. They made declarations of a No win before the boxes were even opened, bookies started paying out on No before the result so something just stinks.

    109. Colin Church says:

      9 hors feel like 9 minutes. That is the quantum mechanics /time distortion of losing a country. OOPS, where did Scotland go? Oh, it’s on the bell end of Cameron and the Bulligdon Boys. Well done Scotland, very proudbut.

    110. goulashman says:

      Only course now … trying to work for and with those around us on an individual basis who suffer and are vulnerable to the right wing plutocrats threatening their lives and dignity. The political process in Scotland has been dealt a mortal blow. Can the SNP survive….what will replace it.

    111. fred blogger says:

      we are an awesome grassroots movement.

    112. Ellie Mack says:

      This is disappointing but let’s stop for a moment.

      45% of voters in Scotland are done with the Union, that’s massive, no matter what they said and promised almost half of the population are through and how many others are about to be bitterly disappointed with what comes next?

      So let’s have a few days to get over this, it is gutting I am not going to deny it. I feel that people like me, who are slightly better off, have badly let down the most vulnerable in society, and I hate it, but democracy is democracy and this is the reality we face.

      The first thing we have to do is keep ‘The Vow’ in people’s minds. Keep the pressure on, none of us expect this promise to be kept but when they do break it we have to be there, and we have to be saying ‘I told you so’ as loud and as long as it takes. We have to keep exposing the failures of Westminster.

      I would also say that we need to be better ourselves. A little too much ‘hope’ when into this campaign and not enough detail that people could believe, I may feel that the middle have let the most vulnerable in society down but I also remember that they have children and families too and may genuinely not have felt that independence was a gamble they could take with their children’s future, so we need to find the answers to that.

      Nothing worth having is easy to attain and yes we have failed this time, but we keep going, don’t give into the narrative that everything is settled, it isn’t, not by a long shot.

      So be disappointed, I am, but accept this with grace but also with a determination that this is not the end of the story. The general election is only a few months away and it looks as if the Tories are going to be very helpful in breaking the Vow, so take some time away, enjoy life with families and friends and then let’s begin again. The story never ends unless we accept it ends.

    113. Macart says:

      I don’t have the words this morning except to say its been a privilege folks.

      Let’s not forget what we’ve learned over the past three years.

      Let’s not forget to care.

      M

    114. Justin Ross says:

      We all now really need to come together and organize a mass non-payment of the TV license fee. The only thing the BBC understand and care about is money and power. 1.5 million people can put a big dent in that and show them up for the world to see.

    115. A. Mylchreest says:

      Cuilean @ 51 Yes MPs in Westminster! An excellent objective. What else can we unite around? Think Resistance! Think People Power! We may be a minority (just) but I don’t sense much commitment or passion amongst the Nay-Sayers. One Million plus disappointed and angry people who won’t bend over and take a humping is something to reckon with 😉

    116. hetty says:

      john king
      I stood at our polling station for only 2 hrs yesterday and had the same experience, a woman, about 30-35, a time waster demanding to get answers or sge woukd vote no, she came out in glee having voted no. She was axreal lufe troll and woukd not listen to my answers at all, she came out wuth crap about people having a choice whether to go private re nhs etc. It was all for show and I realised a tactic to undermine me and the YES side. I only thought of the things Inshould have said, like why not go find out or ask the no guy if you want some answers. She said she did not know of the blue book so I gave her a copy and said read that, she asked who had done it was it blue etc, she knew exactly what it was, said no I cant read that and went and voted, little…well I wont say what I think of her.

    117. Colin Church says:

      Pedant correction police. Yes, I know there are spelling errors I have been up all night. I think a’body gets the jist.

    118. hetty says:

      Weedeochandorris
      I know, I think you are right, I do wonder, and I know people don’t like it said, but I would not put it past them to have rigged it. Lets hope it can be investigated, but even then it is too late. We were many and had the momentum, even no friends voted yes last minute, so why did we lose? I expected Edinburgh to be a no, but many areas seem to have lost that shouldn’t.

    119. Marian says:

      A referendum victory won by Project Fear frightening voters into voting NO and last minute lies by the media that there will be Devo-max is not a worthy or legitimate victory – and so despite this setback the campaign must go on.

      At the Accord Hospice charity dinner event in Paisley during 2013 Andrew Neil of the Politics Show said:-

      “Devolution, the Calman Commission, the Scotland Bill, the Edinburgh Agreement, all of this and more you have, is because Westminster parties are scared of the SNP. If you vote NO you massively change the balance of power and they will not only give you nothing, but will probably take powers away from the Scottish Parliament”.

      Honest words indeed from a committed unionist and leading expert on Westminster politics.

      Consider this scenario: would a Tory/UKiP coalition after the 2015 UK General Election be likely to have extra powers for Scotland on its policy agenda when they may have not have one single representative here?

      Or when they are pre-occupied with the larger constitutional issue of leaving the EU to tackle?

    120. Graham says:

      Sky news last nite showed yes vote on top of pile of no vote on a table of counted votes demand recount

    121. Red Squirrel says:

      Devastated.

      Hope dies. North Britain deserves all that’s coming – we turkeys voted for Christmas after all.

      Don’t see how to stay in a place which has lost all respect. Democracy is apparently served.

    122. Calgacus says:

      @A Mylchreest, I see what you mean, very strange, in fact very suspicious. And you wingers are correct we don’t give up!

    123. Grouse Beater says:

      Best to avoid television for a good few days, too many gloating corrupt politicians happy to have saved their jobs, too many reruns of the jeering and the insults, too many foreign students content in deluding themselves they saved higher fees, and newspapers so far from the truth they may as well be headquarted in Calcutta.

      Murdoch had it in the bag.

    124. heedtracker says:

      Result on BBC pacific quay “Headquarters” right now, incase viewers don’t know who won. It’s all about the power now.

    125. Wee Jimmy says:

      Gutted for everyone today. I emigrated to Western Australia 6 years ago but I’ve been consumed by this referendum and have supported independence for almost a year. That’s almost exclusively down to Wings and NNS. To the Rev; thank you for teaching us readers the ways of critical thinking – i.e. not WHAT to think but HOW to think, and to question everything. The Scottish MSM clearly could learn much from you – if they weren’t so blinkered. The Wee Blue Book was a masterpiece.

      For what it’s worth; I used to visit the BBC News and Sky News websites habitually every day for my news until about 2 months ago. Now I habitually go to Wings and NSS – and completely ignore the BBC and Sky. I will continue to do so while sticking to ABC for global news. Please keep this site going. I also want you to know that this campaign, and everyone involved – including the regular commentors on this site – has ignited an interest within me in political commentary. When the time comes around for the next Australian Federal Election, I will be concentrating my energy into seeing that, his royal vileness, Tony Abbott is kicked out of power in this country. I recently became an Aussie citizen so I may even join the campaign to increase support for the Australian Greens.

      Tonight I go to pipe band practice to play Scotland The Brave. That’s going to feel surreal.

    126. Robert Louis says:

      Hey Macart,

      I know it feels bad, but take heart, yesterday nearly half the population of Scotland rejected Westminster rule.

      Just because David Cameron says it’s over, is of ZERO relevance. He has no mandate whatsoever in Scotland. The fight goes on. 🙂

    127. Harry Shanks says:

      For the first time in my life, I’m utterly ashamed to be Scottish this morning. Sold down the river fellow Scots. They now deserve everything they get, and I opt out of defending them

    128. heedtracker says:

      BBC in Scotland still mocking AlicSamin on news right now. Never paying their wages again.

    129. heedtracker says:

      Glasgow voted Yes! Why does that mean so much. At least they can hold their heads up high.

    130. Elspeth says:

      Just a small thing, I know, but I’ll keep on wearing my Yes badges. And the minute we regroup, I’ll be there.

    131. Caledonian Lass says:

      This is a black day for democracy. Fear-mongering and empty promises of more powers for Scotland, cobbled together at the last minute, have won the day. That shouldn’t be legal as there were only two questions on the ballot paper.

      More powers won’t be granted. Westminster and the House of Lords will see to that.

      In the meantime there will be more austerity, more need for food banks,the threat of privatisation of the NHS, a continuation of Trident, no hope of drilling for oil off the west coast and no doubt people in their sixties will have to work much longer before retirement. The stolen 6,000 square miles of Scottish sea will not be returned to us yet.

      The misguided voters have stuck with the devil they knew so hellish conditions will now prevail.

      The 1.6 million of us who voted for independence will never give up the struggle. By the time of the Scottish elections in 2016, hopefully more people in Scotland will have wakened up to the fact that things will only improve with independence.

    132. Chic McGregor says:

      Gutted but not surprised.

      Hope they renege on new powers and do their worst on Scotland as that will hasten a UDI solution.

      Meanwhile I will get the dreaded T-Shirt made

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmh40sbzxuafopr/DontBlameMeT-Shirt.jpg?dl=0

      On the back, the words.

      YOUR SHAME
      IS NOT
      MY SHAME

    133. heedtracker says:

      Prof Curtice and Sarah Smith still on TV.. What have we done.

    134. Grouse Beater says:

      I take off my cap to Salmond, Sturgeon, and the SNP.

      They gave Scotland the opportunity for dignity and hope.

      Their selfless act, knowing the consequences of a No vote, their sacrifice, will stay in history books, indelible, the rest remain the nonentities they are and always will be.

    135. Wee Jimmy says:

      I see RBS are now saying basically that the panic is over so they will stay put. Hmmm boycott?!

      Seriously though, I live in Oz, but I still have an RBS account with 52 pence in it. I often think – “what’s the point in keeping that stupid account” – but you know what – I’m keeping it open. I figure that it costs RBS WAY more than 52p to maintain that account – so I’m leaving it open! How about all the RBS customers move their wages and savings to another bank – a nice independence friendly bank – and leave 1 pence in your RBS account?

    136. hetty says:

      BBC putting the boot in how fg low. They are despicable and are run by rich bully boys.
      We need to keep this site and other yes sites going, as has been said, regroup.
      Still not convinced it was all above board in the counting.

    137. john king says:

      “Glasgow voted Yes! Why does that mean so much. At least they can hold their heads up high.”

      Its also worth remembering Heedtracker Glasgow had one of the lowest (albeit an historic high for Scotland)turnouts,

      If the people who chose to stay at home and watch the Celtic match and stay dry out of the rain went out and voted, I still think we would have lost but not by the 10% margin these people will crow about forever,
      1966 anyone?

    138. lumilumi says:

      You couldn’t make it up! :O

      The BBC now reporting a bright future to the British and Scottish oil industry with promising new finds in the Atlantic etc. All better together whoope-doo!

      (I’d need a “smiley” of banging your heid agaist a brick wall)

    139. Stephen McKenzie says:

      Listen you lot as Yessers we all worked hard and via Wings, Bella and Newsnet and others, we scared the establishment and media shitless at times.

      Now is not the time to fracture or the blame game, of course we are sore after last night, but it would really play into the unionists hands if we broke up.

      It will be hard and painful, but we must accept that we did not bring enough folk with us this time – this time..

    140. heedtracker says:

      Prof Curtice says No devo, it’s all undeliverable bullshit but Danny Alexander still trying to sell it. Another day of wonder in teamGB.

    141. Lesley-Anne says:

      Don’t worry Chic they WILL renege on these so called new powers. Trouble is the powers that Brown promised can NOT be empowered until AFTER the next General Election. Are they going to be enacted … absolutely NOT! There are far too many back bench M.P’s who are against more powers for Scotland.

      I LOVE that T-Shirt Chic! It says everything that needs to be said. Wear it with PRIDE! 😛

    142. hetty says:

      Lets keep the communication lines open, YES facebook etc, if not Rev Stu wonderful WoS.

      Haven’t paid tv license for years, no aerial, with the internet who needs bbc.garbage.

    143. a2 says:

      See before wasting time and energy on the MSM and the BBC, that’s a lost cause, lets work to sort out poverty, inequality and trident, not sure how but let’s prioritise the things we wanted independence to fix and fix them anyway.

      It’s been said That indi was just the means to an end , not an end in itself. maybe we need to take the long way round and follow a diversion

      And do it with a smile.

      We were wrong about the way the people that normally don’t vote would lean. Was that out of fear of change rather than any real love for the empire. Have they become enthusiastic permanent voters? I doubt it. We probably have.

    144. Calgacus says:

      So we are all agreed that the referendum was not free or fair, that there was massive media bias against YES and that the postal votes were rigged. We should assemble in George Square and show how angry we are.

    145. heedtracker says:

      Highlands vote NO, Glasgow votes YES. We’re get a demonstration of just how much of Scotland is not for Scotland running Scotland and where.

    146. Colin Church says:

      Zero sum debate leads to zero sum outcomes. SLAB a disgrace. Who will vote them and their tory neo-con, lib-con pals in now? Ditch the B*stards. Cannot bear looking at the fawning Murphy and his slim fit M+S polycottom shirt. Hey-Ho there goes another mill£ in exps.

    147. DoziR says:

      Kirsty
      I meant that a lot of people out there especially older people believe what they read and see on the news. They have had it all their lives and don’t know that it isn’t reality. People have been brainwashed for such a long time and they don’t know it. They pass that on to their families and it’s a viscous circle. They have no other source of info they don’t know how to use the internet or social media or get information for themselves. Some people don’t even know that anything is wrong in society. You know the level of propaganda rubbish that’s been thrown at them and it’s a constant barrage relentless and repeated constantly day and night. Rows of really scary stories and obscene full page picture the whole length of the shop. You know about it but they don’t. They have been programmed to believe what Gordon Brown says he’s a respectable gentleman after all isn’t he he used to lead their country and he’s Scottish who could believe he’d lie to a sick girl. We are programmed to respect and believe authority. They have been doing this for a very long time and it can’t be undone overnight by a stranger on the doorstep. Look at how our shopping habits have changed over a relatively short time or how we constantly waste money on the latest gadget or obsessively spend money on crap at Christmas the whole of the country does it not just a few people. It’s done with psychology as you probably know the people that do it are very good. They interfere/affect peoples brains. Its actually pretty amazing that you guys have had the effect that you have on the 1 and 1/2 mil people. Don’t give up now get smart and play them at their own game. The reaction on here is another example you were made to feel scared and you guys know whats going on you panicked these people have been made to feel even more scared and they have nothing to counterbalance it. You are lovely people and have been forced to say some nasty things coz of fear. Fear is the most powerful of emotions that’s why they have used it. Sorry for ranting. Dont get scared get even.

    148. ann says:

      Totally gutted.

      I’ll be telling my lass to get herself out of this country once she gets her qualifications.

      Going up North this morning for her year 2 graduation.

      One comment from my cousin from a conversation yesterday afternoon has stuck in mind who sounded to me like a don’t know and would have went to the polling station yesterday evening putting an X in No. She said “The devil you do, the devil you don’t.”

      I did mention about the cuts, the oil and other things, but I don’t think I will have made much difference.

      Well the devil won.

      GOD help Scotland. We’re in a for a rough ride and deserve the mock and ridicule that we will get and I will not defend my fellow citizens, but I don’t blame them.

      I’ll keep my peace, but I will never forgive.

      Before I leave today, I will be going down the stairs to take down my saltire which has been fluttering proudly in all weathers night and day for 8 years and it will NOT be put back up until SCOTLAND IS INDEPENDENT. I will never give in and hopefully the 45% don’t just give in.

      My small 5″ x 3″ does not deserve to be overshadowed by a huge big union flag which has only appeared in the last 4-5 weeks just up the street from me.

      A biased media and fear won the day.

      Not hope.

      Onwards and upwards (eventually) to a brighter, better future. Let us lions roar and not be cowtowed for too long.

      FEAR and in the main the targeted elderly. The very people that we should have been protecting and sheltering with all our hearts are the ones that has more than likely given that aritificially NO vote to over 55%.

      Thomas, I think might just get my copy of the Bruce Trilogy out and start to re-read about by hero who overcame adversity and won.

      Nigel Tranter introduced me to the Scottish History which I did not get a lot of a school and instilled a pride in me that I am Scottish and which I passed onto my daughter.

      I pride my self that both of us voted YES.

    149. Frank Berger says:

      The pain and anguish inside is raw just now at how this has turned out. Slowly having your dreams hung drawn and quartered in front of a global audience is hard to take. This vote was not only for our own aspirations of self determination but also to be an example to other regions around the world who are not so lucky to be given a chance to win independence peacefully.

      However, we have been in rough positions in the past and we have endured. To give in now and return to apathy would be an even greater disservice to our children. We have taken blows in the past and we can take them today. Our actions now and each day hense can be an act of peaceful defiance…refusing to abandon our hopes and dreams of a better, fairer future.

      We cannot just shrug our shoulders and give up. We need to turn our focus on the strange goings on during the counting. There are very real concerns of voting fraud backed up with possible video evidence of mixing vote piles. Stories of boxes not being sealed properly, left unattended, voters being turned away at the polling stations due to having voted by post although they hadn’t.

      It is so very difficult to match up what we have all seen, heard and felt over the last few weeks with these results. Turning on our fellow countrymen now will only alienate them and make it more difficult to build consensus in the future. The last thing we need is for the Yes movement to be portrayed as a bunch of fanatical hardline brutes. Instead we should ensure Westminster delivers on it’s “promises” and offer informed council to the no voters when they realise what a mistake they have made. Be open to them, they are only human and we all struggle to step out of our comfort zones, some never do.

      If there is indeed no voting fraud and we just didn’t make the sort of gains we hoped for then we can take heart that we now have more fellow scots who support independence than before, that can only be a good thing…a good start!

    150. john king says:

      This is the blackest day in Scottish history since the illegal judicial murder of Wlillam Wallace!

    151. Ron says:

      What can you say. I went to bed with hope and woke up with despair. Lots of Proud Scots on Facebook this morning who can, frankly, fuck right off. How can I look anyone in the eye again knowing my country is not worthy of being a country?

    152. Wull says:

      This is a time for hope, not despair. WoS, Bella Caledonia and Newsnet Scotland did a great job: they must be helped to continue on, with even greater gusto.
      We now have to regroup and hold Labour, the Social Democrats and the Conservatives to every promise they made, and press these promises home. That will keep the flame alive.
      A ‘No’ vote, in which the No side ran scared and had to give promises they did not originally intend, and a referendum which saw ‘Yes’ rise from 29% to 45%, is in no way a disaster. It is setback in comparison with what was being hoped for, but it is still a significant gain.
      Now we need WoS, Newsnet and Bella to list the ‘gains’, as well as the ‘promises’.
      Contrary to counsels of despair, Scotland has not been turned into a Region by the ‘No’ vote. What has been affirmed is that the UK is NOT a nation, it is – in their very own terms – a ‘family of nations’. The national status of Scotland needs to be affirmed now, more than ever. We need, more than ever, constitutional recognition of that identity. Precisely to prevent any further attempt to treat us as a ‘Region’ of a thing called the UK.
      We will have to foster that national identity within this UK thing, for now. The more successfully we do that, the better the springboard for the next time.

    153. thomas says:

      next step , making sure we vote out her majestys imperial new labour party representatives at westminster and replace with snp.

      more determined than ever now.

    154. Chris says:

      “…for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom.” So stated the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320

    155. Macart says:

      @RL

      Independence will come RL, there’s no question. Now though its going to be the hard lesson with a vindictive, right wing reactionary Westminster government. How much are the proud Scots willing to suffer?

      Our protests and votes can act as a buffer in the meantime, but it won’t be enough to stop what the Westminster parties are about to visit on the people.

    156. lumilumi says:

      I hope Rev Stu is having a well-deserved rest for a short while. WoS and WBB must’ve added percents to that final 45% result.

      But we won’t let WoS go!

      We need WoS, especially now that Scotland is to remain under the Westminster yoke, inundated by BBC and MSM pish.

      We took a knock but we’re not giving up, the fight goes on.

    157. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Please don’t take down your YES flags and window posters and car stickers.

      Put up more.

      Push to keep the Yes shops open.

      We are not going away.

      Alex Salmond has no option but to be diplomatic and gracious. Understood.

      Do you feel like being diplomatic and gracious, after what we’ve been subjected to?

      Fuck the BBC, the Scottish Labour Party, and the ball-less print media who facilitated this robbery.

      All across Scotland, right now, the soulless, humourless, self-seeking cowards who have embarrassed us all in the full glare of international scrutiny are avoiding looking at themselves in their bathroom mirrors.

      Where are their celebrations? Where are their heroes? Where are their grand and optimistic plans for the future of ‘this sceptr’d isle’?

      We know now – more clearly than ever before – who is holding us back, and we have no option but to fight them.

      Taking down our colours signals surrender – don’t do it.

    158. Balaaargh says:

      @geeo

      I disagree with your suggestion. The SNP resigning allows f***tards like Murphy and Lord Robertson of Mordor to proclaim that they really have extinguished nationalism once and for all. Electorates have short memories, no MPs or MSPs will set the SNP and the cause back 15 years and those c**** in WM will craw about it until every last one is sitting pretty coated in the skin and hair of dead animals. Meanwhile, the MSM will continually stream “Everything is ok” into the homes of the masses who still won’t see they are being f’d in the A.

      But they can’t continue as is, we need something better. They shouldn’t all resign, just a handful to force byelections and not contest. That would give another minority government. And then they should lay out every single budget decision to the whole parliament. Every choice, whether it is continuing free prescriptions or closing hospitals. Cutting nursery places or imposing tuition fees. And every decision should be preceded with “This year, the Scottish parliament has been allocated £X million pounds less. They should drop the policies, drop the oratory and administer. And then abstain or vote against every single cut.

      I don’t want JoLa in charge lying to my face that this is necessary because this is what Scotland wants and voted for, I want her to squirm. I want the people of Scotland to watch them all squirm. I want the people of Scotland to watch as the silent majority have to combine and take every bad decision. If they are in power then they can hide things and the MSM will happily collude. So we give nothing for them to collude with. And we go out on the streets and remind voters that the SNP voted against the cuts but the WM parties collaborated to impose them on Scotland.

      If we take our ball and leave, it will be years before they let us play again. So we give them the ball and let them explain to the crowd that the gemme’s a bogey because it’s flat. But the pump is ours, and they’re going to have to beg for it.

    159. Lesley-Anne says:

      Unfortunately Frank even if voter fraud could be proven, nothing will happen. The vote has taken place. The count has taken place. The result has been confirmed. That is the end of the process. We can not go back and do a recount.

    160. Calgacus says:

      So tremble false whigs in the midst o yir glee

      For you’ve no seen the last o that devil Dundee

    161. gillie says:

      200,000 votes was the difference. That is all.

      We should feel proud of what achieved because we engaged the whole country and created a movement for change.

      This is no time for tears and recriminations LET US ALL HAVE ONE BIG EFFIN PARTY

    162. Robert Peffers says:

      Well folks I went off to bed and listened for a while to the bed side radio. I knew what was coming but, old independence warrior that I am, knew that this battle was lost.

      I slept like a baby and I have awoken refreshed. I’ve been here before so I know what will now happen. Some few bonny fechters will melt away defeated but others will lie up licking their wounds and will return stronger and will now be battle hardened veterans. Anyone who imagines they have won a war will not be be to long in doubt they have only one a battle.

      When I awoke, while still having my breakfast, Cameron began his, (and it is his victory not Darlings, victory speech. In his first two sentences he used several of his usual lying phrases. He spoke of his country when speaking of The United Kingdom. Now we all know that the United Kingdom is exactly that, A Kingdom, it is not a country.

      What the next battle we face is thus exposed. We must prevent the United Kingdom, (the de facto country of England), from becoming the country that Cameron so obviously wants it to be. We all know that Cameron cannot make good the promises he and the other unionist party leaders have made. That de facto parliament of the country of England that is Westminster will never allow them to do so and Westminster members had already, before the referendum vote had begun, told us so.

      There is no way that any form of unionist tinkering at the edges can solve the problem while Westminster remains the de facto parliament of the parliament of England. John Redwood is now on and, in the usual political language just confirmed what I have just typed. He said he, and lots of other English MP’s was ready to work harder and do both jobs as a UK and an English MP. Which is exactly why we fought the referendum battle to begin with.

      Only one unionist Member told you the truth but he probably did not realise he did so. David Mundell said this, “The Treaty of Union abolished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom, and that, folks, is the fake country that Camoron keeps claiming as his country.

      The facts are plain, a union that began as a bipartite United Kingdom by a treaty of equally sovereign KINGDOMS was made by Westminster into a government of a de facto country of England that is treating the other three countries as vassal states ruled over by that de facto Parliament of England who were devolving English powers to their underlings.

      The people of the, three country, “Kingdom Of England”, are not the same thing as the country of England and it is that country of England’s people who ask, “The West Lothian Question”, but it is they who do not clearly see the real root of their justifiable claims. Westminster is officially and legally the Parliament of, the bipartite, United Kingdom, but is only the de facto parliament of the country of England and thus there is no way that Westminster can ever be allowed to attempt to be both.

      Either the United Kingdom continues as a bipartite union of equally sovereign kingdoms or it becomes a legal quadratic union of four equally sovereign countries.

      Neither can ever really work for the obvious reason that the country of England is the big populated country and will always dominate the others. Either the original bipartite Union of Kingdoms disunites or the present country of England splits into regions and thus the countries of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland accept their status as regions of the United Country of well you give it a name for it cannot be either England, The United Kingdom or Britain.

      Scots, Welsh and N. Irish will not agree to be regions of either England or the United Kingdom. That folks is the real problem. We do not divide up cleanly as equally sovereign regions, countries or Kingdoms as a single united anything.

    163. a2 says:

      How about we campaign for English Independence, could that work? they can keep the pound.

    164. Chris says:

      Time to boycott the BBC

    165. Weedeochandorris says:

      I just can’t get my head around things. The poorest areas used their vote (some probably for the first time, thinking it would mean something) and the SNP strongholds voted No.

    166. Andy Howie says:

      I have to agree with much that has been said here. Keep it going!

    167. DoziR says:

      You are playing right into their hands. You will feel better very soon you have truth on your side but you need to get more stuff on your side. If you go out and react the way your feeling you will undo all the hard work that you have done and we will never get the chance again. We need to hold on to all those brave people that have taken the chance or they have won. Don’t get angry get even smile at them and lull them into a false sense of security play them at their own game.

      I’m counting on you it’s our country. Don’t feel ashamed unless you have something to feel ashamed for and the way others voted isn’t something that you did so why are you feeling ashamed. Stand up and tell people with a smile. Where is the Rev why is he not here if you believe in him talk to him Xx

    168. confidemus says:

      Ocht whit a shite night/morning. I honestly cannot believe that East fucking Ayrshire voted no. As a socialist my heart almost broke for Jim Sillars and Dennis Canavan, whom i thought are a credit to themselves and everyone that used to love/know the old labour party. I never again will by a copy of the daily record, the sun, the daily star, the glasgow herald(who declared for the union yesterday morning) or even the killie standard. Raging is an understatement. As far as the interventions go Bill clinton, Hillary, shameless o bampot and the rest of them can get tae fuck as far as i’m concerned and as for the scottish pensioners ,i hope it’s a harsh winter. Never voted SNP in my life but i’m fully focus on getting that ("Tractor" - Ed) Jamieson out in May. Anyway i needed to get that off my chest. PS cheers for ma copy of the wee blue book at the killie cross on wednesday, peace and out true scots.

    169. John says:

      Utterly gutted , and especially by the older generation who voted to protect their pensions. They have let down their children and their children’s children in ways they will never know.
      I witnessed a sickening sight today when a young man was verbally abused on the streets of Glasgow for carrying around our beautiful saltire. He held his head up high as he did his saltire and ignored them completely. I now pray for peace and unity for our country.

    170. john king says:

      “They have no other source of info they don’t know how to use the internet or social media or get information for themselves. Some people don’t even know that anything is wrong in society. You know the level of propaganda rubbish that’s been thrown at them and it’s a constant barrage relentless and repeated constantly day and night.”

      Sorry doziR I would accept that if the belief in anything the media puts out as being the unvarnished truth by the elderly was universally the case, but there are large groups of elderly who have shaken free of the relentless subliminal messages being pumped at them even when they dont have the internet to support them and those people deserve everyones respect as they arrived it their conclusions all by themselves.

      The truly strange thing is, you could see it in the faces of the older people who “beleived” they simply looked younger and more alive that their lemon suckling counterparts who generally looked bitter and older.

    171. Now's the Hour says:

      I feel privileged to have met and stood beside so many enthusiastic people these past few months, positive people of all ages and backgrounds, people of vision with a genuine blueprint for our country. Of you, I am proud. You give me hope.

      To the naysayers, you latter-day nobles who sold out the future of generations to come in return for worthless promises, lies, deceit, corruption, bias, bigotry, racism, nuclear weapons, poverty and austerity I say – you are not even worthy of my contempt. Shame on you all.

      In twenty years’ time I’ll be able to look in the mirror and hold my head high. Will you?

      The fight goes on. Hail Caesar!!

    172. heedtracker says:

      Devo bullshit boosted everywhere but is a home countries Tory back bencher going to give a damn what 1.6 million Yes voters 500 miles away want or think they’re about to robbed of. A lot of these MP have more constituents than there are No voters let alone Yes. BBC are going to have to work that pack of lies through over the next 6 months.

    173. Calgacus says:

      Congratulations Westminster you now have 2 large cities that have just voted to leave and 1.6 million very, very pissed off citizens. This is not over, this is just the beginning.

      Labour, you are finished in Glasgow and Lanarkshire, we’ve got your number.

    174. Anne says:

      I am heartened by the comments saying the Yes movement isn’t over. I, for one, am up for the fight. And we should definitely keep going at the BBC. We’ll think of new ways of dealing with them as we Scots are a clever lot and learned a lot about guerrilla tactics from William Wallace ie. lateral thinking.

    175. Wull says:

      It took almost 20 years between the first (failed) devolution referendum and the second (successful) one. We have to learn from this (first) independence referendum, and move forward from it.
      That means getting over the initial disappointment, standing back from what has happened, learning lessons from it, taking note of the pluses and the minuses. That includes becoming more aware of present and future opportunities.
      Take heart. When it comes round a second time, there will be a real consensus. Whether that will be sooner or later, we don’t know. But be sure, it will happen.
      Carrying the momentum forward is not just ‘making the best of a bad job’. Regrouping, despite present disappointment, I think we can even see it in positive terms. I would have preferred that the cause be won today, but if it had been it would have been with the most slender of majorities, and that could easily have caused trouble down the line. Next time, the majority will be clear. Not just consent, but consensus … Cheer up – in the grand scheme of things, all is not lost!

    176. Clarinda says:

      Very, very disappointed – but aren’t there more than a hundred of us left!

      Over one and a half million is a good place to start.
      It is after all, a natural human survival feature to avoid change – even for the better, even recoiling from educated risk. Change is more often a psychological barrier than a factual one. Tolerance of the status quo (though I don’t think that’s in Scotland’s political future and perhaps not in a good way)is the defence stance – stepping out of the comfort zone is for the secure and more perceptive.

      I feel like that mythical spider of Bruce’s – nearly there but not quite yet.

    177. Colin Church says:

      To answer the title . It was US, but SLAB had more skin in the game. It wasn’t NOW and never in the future will the WM machine be so naive in their future ref construction. Which kinda speaks to the NEVER bit. Speaking to ourselves here.

    178. goulashman says:

      Does this result reveal that a majority of people in the territory formerly known as the Scottish Nation are basically right wing? Now that the Labour Party and the LibDems have so destroyed and prostituted themselves, are the only political beneficiaries the Scottish Tory Party. Will these people now coalesce around the Tory Party and we will be devastated by Tory victory in 2016 with the SNP as a rump opposition in the Scottish Parliament. What a nightmare Scotland has made for itself!

    179. thomas says:

      on a lighter note whats a mile long and stinks of urine?

      queue for a cliff richard concert!

      dont let the bastards get you down boys and lassies!

    180. gillie says:

      Did urban Scotland vote for independence?

    181. Auld Rock says:

      I believe none of their lies so in the words of the song it’s now time to rise and return our nation to its rightful owners – the sovereign people of Scotland. Freedom Come Aw Ye.

      Auld Rock

    182. ewen says:

      I fell asleep a Scot and woke up a North Briton.

    183. panda paws says:

      Already the backtracking begins re devolution –

      “Except BBC hack Norman Smith has been briefed it’s not happening …

      Sources say new powers for Scottish parliament will be “an extenssnion of existing responsibilities” – not Devo Max #indyref

      — norman smith (@BBCNormanS) September 19, 2014″

      As I said, if you voted no for change, more fool you.

    184. Doug R says:

      Have finally cancelled the licence fee after months of just thinking about it. I’ll never pay it again. Completely scunnered & disgusted with the BBC & the rest of the mainstream media. Don’t lose heart folks, this is only the beginning! Bedtime now I think

    185. muttley79 says:

      One thing I would do if I was in the SG would be to appoint Andy Wightman to advise on land reform. Then break up the big landowners’ estates. Redistribute land to the many and not the few. We have powers to do this. I hope we use them.

    186. lumilumi says:

      Chic (@ 8.09am),

      My gutted YES-voting Scottish friend was already planning a T-shirt with the same slogan (Don’t blame me, I voted YES) but different design. Black, stark, maybe grey lettering, no “smileys”. Because there will be nothing to smile about for many of the NO voters.

    187. malcontent says:

      Guys and girls, we lost. I cannot begin to say how gutted I am but that was the democratic will.
      Many of the residents in our region are spineless and happy to remain servile. I am deeply ashamed. I am trying to think we will get another chance but, really, whats the point? We are a weak pathetic region. Better get used to it and prepare for 10 years of Westminster rodgering.
      And I bet there is sand in the vaseline!!
      I have met some great people on here and I will never forget the ride.Thanks to one and all.
      Take care.

    188. Lesley-Anne says:

      I know folks may not want to watch/listen to these video’s but I am putting them up here so that we can all re-focus ourselves. This is what we fought long and hard for. This is what I will continue to fight long and hard for. I will NEVER surrender my right or the right of any other like minded Scot to fight for what is right and THIS is what is right!

      http://tinyurl.com/kzquxxc

      http://tinyurl.com/lnepghg

    189. Croompenstein says:

      Well done Scotland can you hear that loud whirring noise that’s the sound of Bruce and Wallace and all our ancestors spinning in their graves you bunch of gutless fuckers

    190. davidb says:

      We put up a good fight. We fought fair. They would be ashamed of themselves if they had any shame.

      A generation of young people engaged. Some will be tomorrows politicians and the uncorrupt ones will be on our side. But alas many others will leave – and if I was younger I would think about that too.

      I haven’t bought a newspaper for several years anyway, so there’s little I can boycott there. I will not trust anything from a TV news propaganda machine ever again. Now that I have lived on Wings for weeks I am wondering if in fact there’s even any point to keeping a TV. Maybe I should just dispense with it.

      I wasn’t going to be devastated if we came second. I’m surprised or suspicious at the knockout margin. Will we ever get to find out what really happened here? I doubt any investigating journalist is ever going to investigate.

      I understand the political imperative of a party once ( perhaps just the once ) in power carrying out the referendum. But I would have thought that another 10 years or 15 years would have been long enough for all those elderly mushrooms disconnected to the modern media to have died out and been replaced with my generation who grew up as Nationalists from the 70’s. It may have been too soon to do this.

      Still, look on the bright side. That oil which will still be here after the last of us reading this are gone, will do its bit to pay down that massive debt which those two fucking idiots Brown and Darling ran up. And we can still dream.

    191. heedtracker says:

      So now we have watch an SNP Scots.gov work to fend off austerity UKOK from same voters that voted NO. At least the queen and the City are very happy and glorious and RBS are not moving out of Scotland now.

    192. Chris says:

      Glad to see my city, Glasgow, voted yes, shame we wont be getting it thought-this must have been what 1979 was like.

    193. bunter says:

      I take it that there will not be any Yessers going within a mile of a newspaper from now on and neither the BBC as these are the organs who have fed our people shite for the last two years.

      As for SLab, well, we should energise ourselves again near the 2015 GE and use the power we have here and elsewhere to make sure we are rid of the likes of Doogie Alexander etc.

      Let them not think we have gone away or forgotten.

    194. john king says:

      Thomas says
      “on a lighter note whats a mile long and stinks of urine?

      queue for a cliff richard concert!”

      Queue to get into the HOL!
      there fixed hat for you. 🙂

    195. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      Fear won…

    196. John in Fife says:

      Isn’t funny how Sky news seemed to know it was a no vote before any counting had taken place and one poll was almost or should I say 99% correct.
      97% voter registration and the result’s no. So the huge surge in voter registration was to note NO??.

      Remember ther Fire’s still burning.

    197. Haggis Hunter says:

      Scotland should now expect to be brought in line with the rest of the UK, an end to universal benefits, council tax freeze and payment of tuition fees. That is the reality

    198. Lesley-Anne says:

      Right I’ve been up all night. I’ve sat through disappointing result after disappointing result. I’ve cried more than a few tears and now I’m knackered. So if you peeps don’t mind I’m gonna go and try catch some ZZZZ’s. 😉

    199. Nigel says:

      I gave up TV 7 years’ ago – fed up with the diet of pap and dumbed-down nonsense. Now spend what I save not paying the license fee on DVDs to view on a home cinema system!

      This is not over. Our campaign has caused huge problems for Westminster and if the vote for No believed the new powers thing, that could turn out to be a poison chalice for the establishment if they are not delivered. And of course with a new government in 2015 with UKIP involvement, I think there will be many folk who will feel betrayed.

      My badges , posters and other material is going into storage for the next time!

      http://nairnyes.wordpress.com/

    200. Chris says:

      Cast my first ever vote yesterday-what better to vote for than your country’s independence!

    201. Nigel says:

      Betrayed when the powers pledge is over-ruled.

    202. muttley79 says:

      We need to find a way of bringing all the different parts of the independence movement into a co-operative, mutually supporting electoral forces. There are many different elements, Labour for Indy, SSP, RIC, Women for Indy, SNP, Greens etc. There needs to be permanent links built within the movement.

      We need to encourage those who have argued so well and campaigned tirelessly for independence who are not in the SNP, Jeane Foreman, Alan Grogan, Cat Boyd, Sarah Collins, Robin McCalpine etc. There is a lot of political talent that have emerged in the independence movement. We need to help provide a platform and support for these people to continue to press for change.

    203. Colin Church says:

      @Auld Rock
      This is real time, not on i-player / beta max over-write. I had to get my emthused kids up fot school with tear soaked cheeks. This will NEVER come again in such a win-able way. Question perfect, disenfranchised population perfect, winning vision perfect, new oil finds just in time perfect, WM continuing sleaze perfect, WM Imperial Masters perfect, Sleazy SLAB C*nts on tele all the time perfect (yes you Brown, Murphy, Alexander) near time Holyrood loyals completely out of touch (yes you Lamont, Bailie and Gray). If not now? (sorry FM) F**ing yon time!

    204. Training Day says:

      I walked past a Union Jack this morning, hanging high from an upstairs flat over a Yes poster on the ground floor. The symbolism is a bit leaden, but it’s there.

      Scotland now becomes the first country in history to voluntarily renouce sovereignty. Westminster has the green light to do as it pleases. Yes, there are huge questions about the conduct of this ballot – I always thought Cameron’s biggest coup in the Edinburgh Agreement was having the Electoral Commission oversee the process – and huge questions about how the result was packaged as a No right from the off by the broadcasters. Huge questions also about the No vote in many SNP heartlands. I am glad to say Glasgow – not so long ago described on here as ‘the dark heart of Unionism’ – showed its true colours.

      But let’s not kid ourselves. When the lies about devo max/super devo max/whatever you want to call it are exposed and no further powers materialise, it won’t have an impact on most No voters. They didn’t vote for the promise of more powers – they voted for no change. That was the motivator of the few No voters I knew of.

    205. bookie from hell says:

      Ed milliband making a speech from glasgow,you couldn’t make it up

    206. A. Mylchreest says:

      This is no time to play ‘headless chicken’, to wander off in 100 different directions of despair. We need to *understand* what happened here. Knowledge is power. We thought we were on favourable ground, we seemed to have won all the arguments (they had no arguments), we believed hope would beat fear. But it turned out they had some tricks we hadn’t expected. We need to know exactly how they pulled this on off. We need to leave off self-blame and assess the situation. Then we need to find effective ways of channeling a million person’s worth of anger and disappointment before it gets frittered away on trivial acts of spite and aggression. That is what they’re banking on, that we turn on ourselves. This is the moment when we are tested, are we really worthy of being a nation?

      And for those who understandably need to morn, maybe we should dish out black armbands, that would show solidarity and make others realise how many they had let down. Fly the saltire at half-mast, or draped in black, or fly the black flag of morning and anarchy. Make you sorrow visible, if you quietly carry on, then they have won.

    207. Luigi says:

      We are all hurting but we still stand.

      And we can stand and hold our heads high, along with our 1.5 million fellow scots who had the vision and the audacity to dream of a better Scotland.

      We are, in general positive people with a positive vision, so let’s just take time out for a few days to think things through. As people have commented, we need to keep going – in a few days we need to start discussing the way forward.

      A real knock back, yes, but it is never over. Leave the negative pessimism to those who voted NO. Let’s rise above that, get together and plan what we are going to do next.

      The British establishment has only delayed the inevitable. I always thought that the referendum came 5 years too soon. Frustrating as hell, and now they will try to thwart us, but as I keep trying to say, Scotland will be independent when the people are ready. Nothing will stop it when the time is right. We are apparently not ready yet, but we are much closer to the goal than we have ever been.

      Think how far we have come so far, in spite of all ranged against us. Absolutely amazing.

    208. Colin Church says:

      Yes I know more typos. Fat fingers and fried emotions.

    209. AndyC says:

      Gutted like everybody else here – but this will be a pyrrhic victory for the British establishment.

      Once we have gone away and licked our wounds, we need to regroup. The genie is out of the bottle – 45 % of the Scottish population have voted to leave the UK after having the full might of the political, media and business establishment at it. And strong majorities in Glasgow (immensely proud of my home city), Dundee and some of the other old industrial regions.

      Watch the Westminster antihill mob fail to deliver and we will do it properly next time. In the mean time, how about delivering on some of that social justice agenda we were promising with the tools we have? And – spring next year – any takers for a campaign to nationalise Scotrail whose franchise is due for renewal?

    210. heedtracker says:

      Even before midnight £100 on yes at betfair got you £1450 so what on earth did they know. Could UKOK really boost 500,000 extra votes from nowhere and pull it off is not feasible but still, how did the bookies get so certain.

    211. Ian Brotherhood says:

      When’s the next PQ?

    212. john king says:

      Luigi says
      ” I always thought that the referendum came 5 years too soon”

      What? are you serious, it was 40 years TOO LATE!

    213. Robert Kerr says:

      Scotland still lives! It is neither dead nor subsumed.

      We now know who is against us.

      I have lost some friends and have found others here.

      Keep WoS going Rev Stu and all the Wingers.

    214. Cadogan Enright says:

      Went to bed exhausted last night and had hoped to wake in an independent Scotland.
      I awoke to discover that the media-based campaign of fear and disinformation has worked – swinging a vital 3% over to the NO camp. We can content ourselves in the knowledge that the UK cannot succeed in ruling Scotland long-term through an Orwellian control of the media in the face of widespread public knowledge of the true facts underlying the nascent Scottish state.
      I was pleased to see Nigel Farrage of UKIP on this morning calling for the end of the ‘excessively large’ subsidy of Scottish people by the English taxpayer. He called for the scrapping of the Barnett formula for funding the devolved nations.
      Thankyou Nigel for giving us the next phase of the campaign. Let’s agree with Nigel and have all funds raised in Scotland kept in Scotland and look for a real devo-max settlement where Scottish people control the income and not just the expenditure. Control over welfare and taxation in Scotland were Westminster retains the purse strings simply makes the devolved parliament the instrument for introducing cuts and hardship in Scotland.
      Devo-max with full financial powers is the last step before Scotland finally leaves the Union – get to it boys and girls – aim high.
      Join the SNP, the Greens, the smaller left wing groups, continue to push for change. Create independent action groups and demand

      On a personal note, yesterday was the 100th anniversary of the last Irish Home Rule Bill that was democratically voted though Westminster. Westminster reneged on the deal in the face of mutiny from the British Army, armed 20,000 Unionists in Ulster and the Torys declared that “Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right”. All in the face of a democratic vote by parliament for Irish Home Rule. My grandfather gave up on democratic politics in the face of these threats. Cycling from village to village, he helped form the Irish Volunteers, later to become the IRA. Elected as an MP, he refused to attend Westminster and helped found the Irish Dail, helped set up the Sinn Fein alternative judicial system and fought in the war of Independence. In less than 10 years after Westminster had cheated Ireland of Home Rule, most of the country won independence from the evil empire. Awaiting execution, his life was saved by the deal to free 26 of Irelands 32 counties.
      Ireland went from being a mostly 3rd world county with 60% of its GDP confiscated annually by the UK, to managing its own affairs. In less than a hundred years it has become an export led high-tech economy which is ahead of the UK on most indexes of economic performance and social wellbeing – despite having to rescue French and German banks.
      Get active, individuals can make a difference, win full economic powers for Scotland, use UKIP’s warped English Nationalism to get it. YES lets scrap the Barnett formula.

    215. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      Right. Next target.

      Thirty plus SNP MPs in 2015.

    216. Malc says:

      Conan, time to stop dreaming , be lucky to keep the current 6

    217. Robert Kerr says:

      I second that, Conan.

      We need voices to be heard.

    218. The Morgatron says:

      I am ashamed to be Scottish, i am ashamed that my son will not have the future all our children deserve. Sorry , but what have we done? We are febble, weak, shitie cowards. We deserve everything we are going to get and I hope the bleed us dry because we said its ok.

    219. muttley79 says:

      @Training Day

      No voters may have thought they were voting for no change, but they are going to be in for a real shock when it hits them. The block grant for 2015-2016 is sure to be a eye opener. Neal Ascherson said that the public sector in Scotland will be hammered in the event of a No vote. All the public sector workers who voted No are in for a rude shock, many are going to be handed their P45 by Westminster.

    220. Malc says:

      heedtracker, they know we are just a bunch of whingers , scared to make our own decisions. They read us 100% correctly, sheeple. Just had to theaten that a few pounds would be lost and got victory.

    221. MoJo says:

      BBC licence cancelled today – and a few letters to write to our esteemed newspapers explaining why I won’t buy them any more – and that’s just a start….
      1.5 million voices cannot be ignored and this is not a time to stop what we’ve started…..too much to lose….
      My daughter has said this morning that she’s going to leave the country as she doesn’t see a future where she could raise children here if we are going to lose our NHS… We owe it to the next generation and to all those who came out and voted in hope, to show them that we are down but not out…..We survived Thatcher (just) we can survive this. Stay strong people – your time has not been wasted…and there are going to be many more battles to fight…

    222. HandandShrimp says:

      It would be a foolish to give up now, 1.5 million Scots voted for a radical change and I am sure a fair number of those voting No did so because they believed the last minute promises. Labour strongholds like Glasgow and Inverclyde had a strong showing for Yes. Labour MPs would be foolish indeed to try and prevent further devolution. Cameron doesn’t need his backbenchers as it is a cross party issue.

      Not happy obviously but let’s focus our ire on securing more for Scotland. Anger can be positive if we direct it in the right place. There is no point in raging at those that fell for the doom and disaster coupled with jam tomorrow stories. We need to reach out to those whose head voted against their hearts. We had the full weight of the world against Scottish independence. The US, EU , Banks, CBI, BBC, Newspapers etc., It wasn’t a level playing field and still we took them to the wire.

      Mourn for a lost opportunity briefly, we fight on. We also have the luxury to say we voted Yes, it is the No side that have to deliver. It is our job to remind them of that.

    223. Auld Rock says:

      lumilumi – ahmen just watch our resources being used once again to fund the ‘black-hole’ that is London. Aye they think that they’ll get their new sewer, cross rail all at the expense of an ever increasing death tole on the A9 and crap diesel trains on our railways. I’m so angry that peaceful ways are now out the window for I tried to convince myself that peaceful means were possible but given the dirty tricks, lies and everything else that has been thrown at us the gloves are now off, so HELL MEND THEM, ON THEIR HEADS BE IT.

      If they thought the Mau-Mau, EOKA, IRA etc were bad then they have no idea what is about to descend on them, as they sow so shall they reap.

      Auld Rock

    224. Justin Ross says:

      Only 383,937 votes in it. Hardly down and out, just dazed

    225. mogabee says:

      Be angry, be upset, by god we have the right.

      Thanks to Stu we have this site to deposit all our hurts and no-one should be prevented from doing what they feel.

      At the moment, I have passed(mostly)! the angry stage and starting to think what’s next.

      I went into that booth yesterday and made a promise to those gone before and vitally, to my daughter, that the cross was for her future and that is still the same vow I gave to her this morning.

      We’ll regroup and decide the next moves, of that I’m sure.

    226. Stuart McLean says:

      Thanks stu and all that have kept me sane with their insightful comments and observations. Absolutely gutted we have been lied to and cheated by their msm. It has been a journey worth travelling and my love goes out to all that walked this path. Labour are dead long live the people.

    227. muttley79 says:

      @HandandShrimp

      Labour strongholds like Glasgow and Inverclyde had a strong showing for Yes. Labour MPs would be foolish indeed to try and prevent further devolution. Cameron doesn’t need his backbenchers as it is a cross party issue.

      SLAB politicians do not give a fuck about further devolution. They only promised it to defeat independence. We all know it is a massive con. They will try and prevent further devolution, they are only interested in themselves and their own self preservation.

    228. lumilumi says:

      gillie @ 8.27am wrote

      200,000 votes was the difference. That is all.

      We should feel proud of what achieved because we engaged the whole country and created a movement for change.

      This is no time for tears and recriminations LET US ALL HAVE ONE BIG EFFIN PARTY

      That’s the spirit!

      Let’s all us yessers take some time off after all the hard work and celebrate the high turnout.

      Then it’s back to the grindstone, with the UK GE coming up and holding all the unionist partiest to account and revealing all their promises for what they are: empty.

      Oh god, slimy wee Dougie Alexander pontificating more hypocritical pish (secure now after a NO vote) about more powers, which, of course, he says, would have to be agreed in the Westminster Parliament and the House of Lords.

      And then the ultimate toadying royalist Brit-nat sychophant Nicholas Witchel outside Balmoral, saying that he would imagine the the Queen would be pleased with the result. (His opinion, not the Queen’s.)

      Where’s the nearest brick wall? I want to bang my heid agaist it.

    229. muttley79 says:

      Oh, and Henry McLeish is a useless prick.

    230. goulashman says:

      I am afraid the Tory MP count from Scotland will rise considerably to double figures in 2015.

    231. hetty says:

      Its all about, the oil.

    232. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Guys,

      I am so bitterly disappointment that circumstances contrived to deny us what we all worked so long and hard to achieve. We are all hurting badly, but we CANNOT give up in our ambition to secure an independent Scotland.

      With the greatest respect we *need* to continue the fight. I am sickened at the idea of Cochrane allegedly receiving a £ 20 grand bonus to scribble his poisonous opinions to help promote his union, and to that end I ask of you this.

      Please find it in your heart to help support our ambition to make iScot a vehicle for both online and printed media that reflects and promotes the views, hopes and aspirations of we custodians of the indy flame. We cannot give up, we need to move forward, we need to start doing something positive and constructive otherwise this has all been a waste of time.

      Please don’t start the self flagellation route, we are ALL down and hurting real bad. Take time out and grieve for the result, resolve to harness that raw energy and FOCUS on getting back on that Indy horse. You deserve it. Scotland is worth it. You are worth it.

      Please help in any way you feel appropriate. Yours Aye, Kendo

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iscot-a-free-fearless-news-service-4-scotland

    233. r baxter says:

      the corporate gangsters have it.

    234. muttley79 says:

      Furthermore, if we ever get into the stage again of having an independence referendum, lets not have anymore talk of a currency union again. After that carry on I say we take control of monetary and fiscal powers ourselves. If there is to be a next time, lets also be more steely and assertive. Yes spokespeople should have told the interviewers to stop interrupting them.

    235. heedtracker says:

      I’m not angry but it’s sad to think of the what might have been possible from this morning onwards. At least it’s shown just hard UKOK campers have to had to lie and deceive to save teamGB. Just because it’s worked doesn’t mean they’re decent people or even right. http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/law/staff/adamtomkins/

      BetterTogether Slovenia will have nothing to do now. Oh no, there’s still the devo max fraud to sell us and that’s it.

    236. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      My four year old grandson is currently greetin about a burst YES balloon.

      I ken how he feels…

    237. goulashman says:

      I have the same feeling as when I was in America when George Bush ‘defeated’ Al Gore – when the Tories regained power in Westminster and when ‘It’s the Sun wot won it” Here, its the BBC ‘wot won it’. But is the West Scotland included, basically, pathologically, suicidely right wing?

    238. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Conan

      I wonder what Cochers will spend his money on.

    239. Colin Church says:

      SLAB
      Two feet good. Here comes the trough. OOh look Ermine!

    240. Training Day says:

      @Muttley

      ‘If there is to be a next time, lets also be more steely and assertive.’

      Yes. It may be that the fatal flaw at the heart of the Yes campaign was its ultimate failure to spell out adequately the consequences of a No vote. The air of Pollyanna vapidity from some of those at the top of the campaign was extremely grating.

    241. Now's the Hour says:

      The Declaration talks about 100 of us remaining alive. This morning, 45% of us are still alive to fight for the future of our country.

      I will continue to wear my YES T-shirts and badges with pride. I want my fellow citizens to know that I was not one of the 2014 nobles who sold out.

      Hail Caesar!

    242. Sunshine says:

      Totally see your point Geeo at 7,44am. At the very least the SNP have to stop protecting Scots, most who would have voted no, from the reality.
      First I would lift the legal requirement for councils to place public notice adds in newspapers worth tens of millions to them per year. They are no friends of democracy or Scotland
      I would also announce that since we voted against independence we cannot afford things as they are.
      Means test tuition fees, free prescriptions, bus passes, free care for the elderly, council funded child care. Also immediately scrap the council tax freeze.
      Most of these would affect me and my family but the country has to see what it has voted for.
      The SNP are in power to deliver independence and they have failed. They are not in power to protect well to do people from reality in tactical voting.
      As Geeo says, they should not become patsies.
      Do the above now or resign on mass immediately.

    243. aldo_macb says:

      Next time, and I’m sure there will be a next time, please everybody don’t waste time preaching to the converted. Get out and volunteer for Yes Scotland. Go and leaflet and canvass and phone canvass. Don’t sit back and expect it just to happen.

    244. Grouse Beater says:

      Some Scots and some non-Scots voted for:

      Trident, and more billions spend on death.
      Rendition, torture, and incarceration without trial.
      Surveillance by a security state unaccountable to us.
      Neo-liberal brutal economics.
      Corporatisation of everything.
      A press and media happy to betray their purpose.
      The retention of the mass of financial wealth by the few.
      Rule by a parliament wholly out of tune with Scotland.
      The continuation of corrupt institutions and government.
      The destruction of the welfare state.
      The privatisation of the National Health Service.
      Tutition fees for all students.
      Loathing of foreigners, that is, non-English.
      Remorseless, endless wars while preaching peace.
      Suppression of idealism, radicalism, progressive policies.
      The loss of North Sea Oil Revenues.
      Power in the hands of an elite.
      And more, lots more, of the Scottish cringe.

      As my American friends would say; ‘Go figure.’

    245. john king says:

      Henry McLiesh on BIAS BASTARD CORPORATION
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsl7-TJtPew

    246. Les Wilson says:

      Democracy was stuffed by the massive Westminster propaganda machine. Throw in our ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s ie Slab,Tories, Libcons etc, and we can take some strengh from knowing that we have been royaly cheated.

      We have endured much, we have been magnificent, we will rise again.

    247. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      @Kendo

      He could use a suit that fits him…

    248. pool8 says:

      Do not turn your backs on what you are.

      Never deny what you are.

      I thought, earlier today, about never wearing my kilt again.

      Who would that profit?

      Them.

      Those who would profit form the fire dying in our hearts.

      I’ll never give them that satisfaction.

      We will NEVER be a northern region.

      We ARE a nation.

      LIVE that truth everyday and we will win in the end.

    249. Juteman says:

      It woz BBC Scotland wot won it.

    250. scrum5 says:

      Absolutely gutted with the result, and like many I don’t understand why so many people can be fooled yet again, but whatever their reasons, no-one forced them into the Polling Station, no-one forced them to vote. The turn-out was a record and however we feel, we can’t deny the result.

      We do have to suck it up and keep the pressure on. We have achieved amazing things together in the Yes campaign, and have energised a generation into political awareness, and that is not going back in the box. Remember that the Left in England, Wales and NI were looking to us for a lead, so now we must take the fight to Westminster, and change Politics in the UK forever.

      We have lost Scotland but we can still win Britain for a fairer, more equal society. I’m going to read the Common Weal book again, because the need hasn’t changed with this vote.

    251. Les Wilson says:

      Stu, we feel your pain and frustration, we all feel the same. Thanks for all you have done.

    252. Bill Halliday says:

      Again a thousand thanks to Stu for all his work and I hope he keeps going because there is much work to do. The pressure should now be very much on the No camp and there is no one in the traditional media who will pick up the batton.

      In a way, this fantastic site was our down-fall because a huge majority in here were totally positive and it’s easy to fall in to the trap of projecting that majority out in to the ‘real world’. We would have had to be able to attract many more people to come in and take part. It’s akin to watching a Michael Moor movie.

      How can we do it? Maybe a second Wee Blue Book once we know what Westminster and their lackies have lined up for us.

      The reasons for voting No could only be:-
      1. Genuine fear of what was seen as the unknown. (But these people were not silent and there were not that many of them)
      2. A genuine belief that we are better together and that Westminster will deliver meaningful new powers to us immediately.
      3. Being ‘I’m all right jacks’ who care for themselves only, believe that being poor and vulnerable is your own fault and that Food bank users or those on Benefits are scroungers. (These people would be very silent and if the expected shafting from Westminster comes, they will neither blush nor blink).

      It’s not that long to the next Election and hold in mind Blair had a majority without Scotland’s input but there is no chance of that for Milliband. Possibly the only one made me sick to the pits this morning was Willie Rennie trotting out his “there’s going to be rapid change” nonsense.

    253. goulashman says:

      The ordinary, the vulnerable, the despised struggling ….. now fair game. Now to be crushed under a Tory thumb and set out in the street …. itIS as bad as that. This is what NO has voted for.

    254. Colin Church says:

      This site? Speaking to ourselves… Not good if you have been up all night. Still at least the establishment and the Duke of Westminster’s son in law and all the Lords (including Labour Lords) can have a right good piss up and sneer. Good luck with the Ermine gutter snipes. Please, oh please, let one be allergic.

    255. Flower of Scotland says:

      @hetty

      Of coarse hetty, it always was and is about the oil! In fact all our United life it has been our resources. We have it they want it!

    256. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Where can I get a 44.7% badge

    257. Grouse Beater says:

      Sunshine: The SNP are in power to deliver independence and they have failed.

      I think it was actually called, ‘more democratic powers.’

      We have been promised more.
      But those who Voted No are about to be haunted by their decision. Their masters cannot deliver a single one.

    258. Fiona says:

      There is nothing to be gained by assuming the vote was rigged. The majority was too large for that to make any difference even if it were proved

      There is nothing to be gained by suggesting that those who voted no did so out of fear: they will not see it that way, though the campaign was founded on fear from the no side.

      It seems to me that the majority have given one clear message: they have accepted that “there is no alternative” and believe that what we have now is as good as it ever gets. That message is not just put out by the UK media: it is the story across the developed world and it has been the story for so long that a great many people cannot even remember a different and more optimistic time: yet it is within living memory

      Someone above said this must be what it felt like in 1979: I agree, but with this difference. In 1979 people did not really understand the enormity of their choice for they did not understand that neoliberals are not like old fashioned consensus tories. But everybody understands now

      The people have voted against their fellow citizens: poor people who do not have food security; workers on zero hours contracts; dismantling of our welfare state and our health service.

      This morning the talk is all about english law for english people: and so we can say that this campaign has led to some demand for a better democracy: but not one based on principle nor on understanding of our constitution. Rather it is based on the levelling down which seems to popular whenever any inequality is recognised or manufactured.

      Scottish people believe in large numbers that the status quo is as good as it gets: but it is not as bad as it gets. That is yet to come

      We achieved a great deal and something better may come from it if the powers that be believe that there is real dissatisfaction that needs to be addressed. But why would they? They won and on retreat into their echo chamber they will not hear us in the future any more than in the past. Not for long.

      The UK wishes to be a neoliberal state, apparently. For the first time I must acknowledge that is true for a majority of Scots. I never believed that before.

      I do not think that we will grow stronger from this because I think it is a lesson of the sort we got from the miners’ defeat: people will take the view that they cannot win and will withdraw once more into despair. I think that is particularly true for the young who voted for the first time. Such defeats have very long consequences.

      I am certain that there is still a left wing in this country and that the interests of the elite are not the same as the interests of the majority: but they have persuaded most otherwise, it seems.

    259. annie says:

      BBC at the moment wall to wall Labour Party. BBC1, BBC2,News 24 and Parliament Channel all Ed Milliband.

    260. davieS says:

      No-one who voted yes will ever regret their decision. How many no voters will be able to say that by Burns night deadline for devo-pish?
      We need a yes alliance for 2015 GE. I thought about agitating for mass abstention for a nano-second, but Westminster would claim legitimacy on a turnout of one.

    261. Now's the Hour says:

      Going to leave the telly off for a week or so. That sh*tebag Darling gloating in my living room is the last thing I want. BTW, did anyone else hear one of the Sky commentators (forget who) saying last night that Scotland had voted to remain a part of England? I kid you not.

    262. big jock says:

      Ok I have calmed down. Time for reflection. My Scottishness has been shaken to the core. But I must believe in something or I am nothing. People talked about the perfect storm for Yes. Tories in power,nae Mp’s,Austerity ..Gues what folks the perfect storm is coming next year when UKIP and the Tories get in and there is a Euro referendum.SNP majority 2015,2016 Holyrood. We will take more people with us then. Lets fight like Bruce did and never give up.I was Scottish before the vote so am still Scottish. I cant stop being Scottish.

    263. BigSteveChisholm says:

      Hold your heads up.

      We are the forty five.

    264. GrantMacD says:

      I do not understand this result. After the polls closed, I drove up to Dunoon for a takeaway. People were standing at the side of the road, waving Saltires at 10pm in excitement.

      But apparently Argyll voted no.

      Obviously Dunoon ain’t Argyll but, I wonder what happened.

    265. Robert Louis says:

      Great to see lots of useful new ideas coming forward now, as to how we can continue the fight to restore Scottish democracy and independence.

      Remember folks, almost half the population voted YES, so we are well on the way. That is a lot of people.

      Now, we need to slay the media who betrayed Scotland so badly. We should get organised, and one by one pick off the snivveling newsprint in Scotland. I’d suggest we go for the laughingly titled’ Scotsman’ newspaper first. They are almost on their knees already. Time to kill it off.

      Please folks, make a point of NEVER again buying ANY ‘scottish’ newspaper, for it was they together with the propagandist BBC liars who swung the vote. I will be happy when every last one of those so-called ‘journalists’ is on the dole. I have NO respect or pity for them at all.

      We are the NEW media. Let’s make it happen.

    266. john king says:

      Ed (the talking horse )Moribund thanking everyone (including his hairdresser), get me a bucket quick bbllleeeeuuuuurrrrggghh, hammnn bbllleeeeurrrruuuggghhh

      TOO LATE!

    267. Molly says:

      1/I’m going to get a t shirt asking ‘ashamed , you should be ?’

      2/Derek Bateman has spoken about a voluntary register- let’s use this amazing Yes movement to
      join up and start attacking the problems we all care about.

      3/ Kendo, let’s advertise your idea far and wide and support a proper weekly news magazine.

      4/when things cool down , let’s ask the Jeanne Freeman’s , Leslie Riddochs, Robin Mcalpines ( all the fantastic people who have come to the fore)to stand as candidates against the self serving ,Labour, Liberal Tories , story tellers who are currently parading as OUR representatives .

      4/ The SNP , Greens and SSP need allies to break the monopoly of the old parties, for two reasons Hands up who is honestly going to vote for any of those 3 Westminster parties now in next years general election and there could be less tribalism and more consensus ?

    268. Dorothy Devine says:

      Kendomacaroonbar, I’d be happy to help get a newspaper off the ground but not happy about putting my details on the web- is there any other way to donate?

      Rev Stu , I will donate to you via your HSBC account – and more than happy and grateful so to do.

    269. iheartScotland says:

      I’m fucking angry at the no voters stupidity. But in 10 years there will be no msm and bbc licence fee will be a thing of the past. Never give up.We have past up an historic opportunity, the fight continues…

    270. john king says:

      Nows the hour says
      “Sky commentators (forget who) saying last night that Scotland had voted to remain a part of England? I kid you not.”

      not an error
      DELIBERATE!

    271. heedtracker says:

      It’s a really weird atmosphere at work. No voters are extremely happy and No voters are just watching them. We’ve done really well to survive this endless assault on our common decency so be proud everyone. Don’t let them take everything. Plus Glasgow voted Yes! We moved back to Aberdeen from Glasgow but fuck it, we’re going back. We belong to Glasgow.

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2013/jan/30/scottish-independence-referendum-question-cartoon?fb=native&commentpage=1

    272. Robert Kerr says:

      The vote may not have been rigged but the Edinburgh Agreement was ignored by the last minute “New Powers” during the “purdah” time.

      Alex Salmond trusted WM too much.

    273. Donald says:

      A friend e-mailed me this morning claiming he saw something on Facebook or Twitter that there is supposedly going to be some protest against the BBC and its bias helping the NO vote. Anyone else heard this?

    274. bunter says:

      Aye its the media we need to go for. Without those lying scumbags this would have been a YES and if we get a chance at this again when Westminster fails to deliver, then a badly weakened Unionist press will make the difference.

      Don’t buy them and don’t go there.

    275. lumilumi says:

      Thumbs up for Kendo above (@9.13am)

      Take the positives from this indy campaign. An amazing YES grass roots campaign, people awakened. They will not go back to sleep, no matter what the No Better Together parties might wish for.

      We might get smug blinking Alistair Darling and Ed Miliband lisping their gloating way of thank you speeches like they’ve won an Oscar. But Scotland will never be the same.

      The only problem is that the NO vote has handed the national discussion back to London. Now they’re all at it. Dave Cameron, Ed Miliband, soon Nick Clegg no doubt. Setting up commissions to think about more devolution for all the home countries (a commission = kick into long grass).

      The Scottish scare is over so they they can talk to their country (few marginal seats in England) and forget about Scotland.

      I’m getting a dry boak about Ed Miliband’s hypocritical speech. Boak.

    276. BrianW says:

      WTF happened.. I’m so glad that I live in a YES City though, and have shared the ups and downs with them. Sad to see that my once beloved Moray was a No. But then there is the RAF and Army camp up there. So I shouldn’t really be surprised.

      To say I am gutted is an understatement. Of course I am, you don’t believe in something so strongly for it to be taken away and feel elated. If it had been a YES I’d be elated – just like I’m sure the No folk are today. I genuinely didn’t think it would go this way. How do you pick yourself up after this? I may need help..lol.

      All that remains now is to ask Mr Cameron what table/desk he’d like to bend over before getting Royally shafted.. Then I can go for treatment at the nearest privatised NHS facility..

    277. Robert Louis says:

      Big Jock,

      You are right. Let’s channel our frustration. The fight is NOT over. As was the case of our great King Robert the Bruce, if at first you do not succeed, try, try and try again.

      It’s coming yet for a that. Chin up folks! 🙂

    278. scotswoman says:

      I’d like to join many others and say thanks to Stu and Wings for acting as a focal point for so many YES voters in this campaign. I’ll be interested to see where Wings goes from here – there will be plenty more to write about over the next couple of years.

    279. goulashman says:

      Heedtracker – I know we’ve had our differences – but I appreciate all you’ve said – and like you, I wish I lived in Glasgow. Now I am in Aberdeenshire – and I am confronting NO neighbours.

    280. Camy says:

      and so we have it…

      As MP Ian Davidson foretold “The debate will go on in the sense there is a large number of wounded still to be bayoneted …”

      We looked at them, in their corruption, and saw them for the despicable bunch of bastards that they are. We saw the fear in their eyes as they launched a storm of hatred, threats and lies. And for what? A ‘Vow’ described as a “Press Release” within minutes of the polls closing.

      It will be hard not to view with contempt those that, at the last, bent the knee and gave MY future to their southern masters.

      There is no ‘Great’ in Britain this morning…

    281. Robert Louis says:

      How about crowdfunding thousands of badges: I am one of the 45.

      up for it?

    282. Camy says:

      “Angry Face”

    283. Footsoldier says:

      For me a lifelong dream gone. The SNP chose the battleground,we knew what was ranged against us and it was only the ineptness of the No campaign which did not make it worse.

      The Yes campaign quite rightly never tired of saying how able the people of Scotland were to run their own country. The people spoke, if you believe in democracy, accept the verdict and move on.

      From the outset I thought the referendum should have been delayed until after a further term of government but too late now.

      The best we can hope for, is for the SNP to try and oust Westminster Labour MP’s at the next general election and if it is a hung parliament at Westminster, we may be able to extract some goodies for Scotland if we were to hold the balance of power. It is inevitable that the Scottish Parliament’s stature will be diminished at home and abroad as will the ambitions of those serving in it.

    284. Camy says:

      Sorry Robert The ‘Angry Face’ was meant to go at the bottom of my rant

    285. Grouse Beater says:

      Darling ran himself ragged shouting ‘400,000 conservatives didn’t get the government they voted for,’ meaning their presence scattered around Scotland should be respected.

      And what about the 45% of people who voted for full democratic powers, Mr Darling?

      What about them?

    286. john king says:

      Lumilumi

      Dry boak?

      bwahahahahahaha
      first time I have laughed this morning,
      you are a Scot Lumilumi
      and we love you dearly!

    287. goulashman says:

      I am NOT a Brit = alll kinds of attitude I disown

    288. Fairliered says:

      The Scottish Government is going to have to make some hard decisions to protect Scots from the austerity measures that will be on their way.
      They need to protect the poor and vulnerable.
      I hope they continue with their plans to increase child care and to protect low income families from the bedroom tax.
      They will need to make deep cuts elsewhere. I would suggest abolishing free personal care for the elderly, abolishing the bus pass for over 60s and prioritising healthcare to ensure that children and people of working age receive priority over pensioners.
      Let the selfish old bastards who voted to demean Scotland and make their families suffer in order to protect their self interest be the ones who suffer.
      I will not be shedding any tears for them. But I will be shedding tears for the children whose futures will be destroyed by the neoliberal policies that will continue to be imposed by Westminster.

      And let’s regroup and try to make Britain ungovernable. 50+ SNP, SSP and Green MPs in a hung parliament at Westminster next year?

    289. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Devo Max pledge

      That didn’t last long

      http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/09/bbc-sources-devo-max-isnt-happening/

      Anybody surprised?

    290. muttley79 says:

      A principal objective of the independence movement must be the disruption of SLAB’s local government base and patronage networks. I pondered whether we would come to regret the failure of the SNP to make further inroads into Glasgow City Council in particular. The SNP in particular need to find a local Glasgow leader who can make inroads into that council. I know there was a Yes vote in Glasgow, but we really needed a larger vote there and in other places as well. They are not really interested in winning back Holyrood at the moment, but are reliant on their patronage networks. These need to be targeted ASAP imo.

    291. sydthesnake says:

      just seen a video of potential vote tampering on my face book page, has anyone else seen similar

    292. iheartScotland says:

      I’gutted, but it starts now…. we only have to convince 7 or 8 percent of people…. never give up..

    293. bookie from hell says:

      Will George Galloway claim he saved Glasgow or Dundee?

    294. Donald says:

      Hi, Rev I would just like to say thanks for your tireless efforts to help the YES Campaign it has been a privilege. I hope this isn’t the last we see of your site, I hope that you will continue to hold the Unionist parties to account especially in regards to their (non-existent) “powers”.

    295. ewen says:

      Just phoned my father. He calmed me down. All to play for and let them renege on their weasel promises by Burns night.
      In 2016 we send a yes coalition to Westminster. Make every Scottish mp a yes mp.

    296. Grouse Beater says:

      It woz Beckham wot bent it.

      Now let’s hear all the smarmy, vacuous celebrities who cried, ‘Please stay, Scotland,’ now shout, ‘Give Scotland the powers you promised!’

      I’m waiting.

      Come along, chaps. Don’t be coy.

    297. Chrissie says:

      I am new to this site and only started looking at it a few weeks ago when I thought that the media reporting on this was very strange. I too am baffled by the vote results. I am from rural Angus and can only think that the farming community were spooked by the EU debate. This may have been the case all over rural scotland which usually returns an SNP vote . The ironic thing is that following a conservative win at the next UK election the referendum on EU memebership may take them out if Europe anyway. We had only one person at our door asking which way we were voting and he was from the YES campaign. I think there was not enough door stepping or telephoning by the YES campaign who seemed to be concentrating on the cities. The atmosphere in Dundee was fantastic, but here in Angus you would hardly have known there was a massive decision to be made. I voted yes and confidently told a friend last night just before the count that Angus would be a YES vote! Obviously I’m not blessed with second sight!

    298. Marie clark says:

      Well folks, I said earlier that I wasn’t angry, but disgusted, and I’m not. But now I really feel contempt and loathing for these no voters. The TV licence is now being cancelled and I haven’t bought a paper in a while, except the Sunday Herald. That is now under consideration. Too wee, naw, too poor, naw, to stupid, aye it looks like it. Oh and funny how the oil industry is booming now,

      Hubby off to buy a bigger flagpole and saltire. I am a scot and a passionate Scot and no one but no one will take away my identity.Ashamed, never in a million years, I’m no ashamed I voted aye, the no’s are the ones who should feel ashamed at betraying yer ain country.

    299. Marian says:

      Newsnet Scotland, Wings over Scotland, Bella Caledonia, and all the other websites that have fought so well to provide balanced reporting in the referendum campaign should now join forces in a tactical voting campaign that will capitalise on the now evident disillusionment with Westminster in Glasgow, the West of Scotland, and elsewhere with the purpose of electing as many independence seeking MP’s to Westminster as we can at the UK General Election in May 2015.

      For it may very well be that Scotland’s MP’s can hold the balance of power and not only use that to hold the Westminster parties to account for their “Vows” and prevent Westminster attempts to enforce more neo-liberal policies on Scotland but also use their numbers to force very substantial further devolution concessions from whoever is the largest party hoping to form a UK government.

    300. Oneironaut says:

      Just woke up a few hours ago. taking me ages to type this cos i keep missing keys and barely caring enough to go back and fix the typos.

      funny i don’t feel as angry as maybe i possibly should.
      I just think how I spent my earlier years after I left school wishing I could have had some sort of future after realising that all my life would consist almost entirely of looking for work that didnt exist and trying not to starve along the way.

      then i got pissed off enough by the bedroom tax to get into politics. joining up with the ssp and doing street stalls, public meetings, etc.
      Then, i heard of the independence referendum. I saw a chance of a real future dangling in front of me.
      I was a definite Yes right from the first moment i heard of the question.
      I was never a fighter. never a campaigner. Couldn’t answer questions well when I was put on the spot. I was learning all this from scratch and just barely fumbling through it.
      Some days I doubted we could win.
      But a wee blue book that convinced many others to believe like I did. people on Wings and elsewhere whose own inspiring courage made me keep going.
      and finally a girl defying politicians and a life-threatening condition climbing a national landmark to put up a yes sign and send a message of hope made me believe, made me want to fight harder than i ever thought i could have.
      I spent over 12 HOURS straight standing outside the polling station yesterday with leaflets in the hope that i could maybe make even a slight last-minute difference. stil hurting from that now, but at the time I thought, if Lindsey can do that, this small discomfort i feel is NOTHING!

      I feel sorry for myself now. but its people like her i feel worst for. id hoped an independent scotland would give her a chance at prolonging her life. now she has to rely on an NHS that will be lucky to last the year.
      I feel sorry for Rev Stu who endured ridicule and hate to keep us all going and give us a way to get together and share ideas. (I meant what i said before Stu, if we ever meet, I’ll definitely buy you a drink, if I can still afford it then).

      I feel sorry for the people like me who can barely afford to scrape a living, and for whom things are about to get much much tougher through no fault of their own (most of them will have voted for change and will likely be waking up with shattered hopes today too)
      most of us probably wont survive. only homelessness and gradual starvation to look forward to, too proud to add to the burden of the foodbanks.
      back to living with nothing to look forward to. only now tormented further with the memories of that hope that was dangled in front of us and cruelly snatched away just as we reached out for it.

      I hope others can keep fighting like theyre saying on here. though i fear any future revolution will likely be won only by less legal and violent means. as westminster can never allow another referendum to happen, as theyll know they would lose.
      Even if it does come it’ll likely be too late for many who have lost their last hope this morning.

      call me a coward if you like. i suppose i am. but I feel like i’m just too tired and broken to fight any more right now.

    301. Camy says:

      Yes I echo the Well Played the Wings OS team – a daily companion for the last wee while. Thanks for all your hard work.

    302. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I think we need to have a look at the postal vote.

      Big mistake letting that one be run the way it was set up by John Prescott of Labour for Labour to fraudulently use as necessary.

    303. Jimbo says:

      Today we see a victory for deceit, mendacity, crookedness, fraud, bullying, unscrupulousnes s, vileness, vituperation, and all the other things the Better Together camp (and I include the BBC and Scottish media in that camp) and the Labour Party in particular, are guilty of being/doing towards/to the people of Scotland.

      Over and above that they went out of their way to demonise not only Alex Salmond but every member of the public who supported independence in whatever form. Branding half the population a virus, nazis, scum etc will not be forgotten. Labour in Scotland may have won this particular battle by underhand means, but they’ve lost a great many voters for the future.

      We were too nicey nice in our attempts to always be positive. Some of us said on here years ago; the SNP/Yes Scotland were too soft. We should have been pointing out the negative and nasty consequences of a NO vote. We should have been scaring the shit out of people about what a NO vote will bring. Hell mend them, they’re about to find out very soon.

    304. Robert Peffers says:

      I must now see about removing every penny I have in accounts with the Bank of Scotland & the Halifax into, probably the Airdrie Savings Bank. That means I must have my works pension paid into that new account too. I’ve already stopped doing my weekly shopping at ASDA and will no longer deal with such as B&Q. Then I must also consider removing myself from the Scottish region of England.

      The real problem of Westminster continuing as the de facto parliament of the country of England is not being addressed. The people of England do not want that to change but have always quoted, “The West Lothian Question”, as being unfair to the country of England. Which, in truth it is.

      They have just failed to realise that Westminster is not legally the parliament of England and that is thus unfair to every other United Kingdom person. So the people of England wrongly demand that Scottish Members of the Parliament of the United Kingdom, be prevented from debating or voting in that, DE FACTO Parliament of the country of England on what they consider as country of England matters. Fact is, though, Westminster is not the parliament of England and the People of England still do want it to continue in that role.

      Until they do see the real problem it will never be solved. If you cannot identify the problem then you cannot begin to cure it. There really is no other sane & logical cure for the United Kingdom’s unworkable governance than to address the real problem and give the country of England a parliament.

      That problem is that The United Kingdom is a bipartite union of two equally sovereign kingdoms but is now being governed by a parliament that has divided those two kingdoms up along the lines of the four countries of those two kingdoms but has retained the original parliament as the parliament of the bipartite Kingdom and the parliament of only one of the two kingdom’s counties.

      I’ll put that another way – there are 533 MPs from the country of England, 59 MPs from the country of Scotland, 40 MPs from the country of Wales and 18 MPs from the country of N. Ireland. That means the 533 English Members can always outvote the total 117 others.

      Yet those 533 English MPs are doing the job of United Kingdom MPs and also as Members of the de facto Parliament of England. There is no way any one of those 533 elected UK members can fail to separate their position as English country MPs from their position as United Kingdom Members. When all is said and done, it is the people in their English constituency that elects them and not those in the rest of the UK.

      Without an actual Parliament of the country of England and abolition of the House of Lords and its replacement by a federal United Kingdom Parliament the problem will remain. Have a think and try to work out what the people of the Kingdom & country of Scotland can do about it. Then consider the people of Wales and N. Ireland, they are part of the Kingdom of England but not of the country of England.

      It must be the Unionist Party MPs in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland who must bear the brunt of the inevitable backlash against their Westminster union allegiance.

      BTW: Farage just on saying we Scots should have a thought for Scottish MPs voting on England matters. They just don’t get it but neither do most Scots voters.

      The Problem remains that Westminster is the de facto parliament of England

    305. I'veNeverSeenBraveheart says:

      My fear is the “missing million”, those disenfranchised voters who voted in hope, will now go back to thinking “what’s the point?”. It will be interesting to see the turnout next May.

      I’m gutted if we have to wait another 20 odd years – this was supposed to be for my children. Now it will have to wait for theirs. I hope I’ll be more optimistic in the next few weeks, but right now, I’m crying for what should have been 🙁

    306. GrahamB says:

      Disappointed comes nowhere near to describing my feelings today. I feel so sorry for the young folk that we gave hope to and disgusted at those of my generation who could see no further than their pensions and their bank balance. I’m also gutted for those previously disenfranchised voters who we manage to get out to vote, will they disappear off the radar again? Only positive is that our pounding of pavements and tenement stairs at least secured a decent result in Glasgow.
      How do we take our support forward and build on it? It’s not long to the next Westminster election where our numbers could make a difference to the Scottish (if we’re still allowed to call ourselves that) vote. How about an Egalitarian Alliance formed from the YES movement to contest every Labour seat?

    307. Grouse Beater says:

      Posh Jocks of Edinburgh will feel proud of their patriotism.

      I’m off to work.

      There is the atmosphere of a morgue in the capital…

    308. Caroline Corfield says:

      Hope is always worth having.

    309. BuckieBraes says:

      I’m afraid I don’t share the sanguine view of many on here regarding the significance of the 45%. I had a suspicion at the time – reinforced now – that Yes support only rose in the last few weeks because of ‘Devo-Maxers’ and federalists who believed a strong Yes vote short of victory would force the UK government’s hand. With opinion polls showing Yes trailing on the eve of the referendum, many of these people probably felt they could vote Yes without risking crossing the 50% line.

      Well, at least this group got the poll result they wanted; but they are destined to be bitterly disappointed. As for those of us who support actual independence, I fear we will ever remain a minority – a vocal and colourful one, but a minority nevertheless. Even if all the worst consequences of the union are now visited upon them, most Scots look like they will remain inexplicably attached to UK rule.

      There won’t be another independence referendum; who is going to provide it? Even if the SNP were in a position to repeat the operation, Westminster would surely not validate it. No, the tide has gone way down the beach and won’t be coming in again any time soon.

      I am 50 years old and now feel I will not see Scottish independence in my lifetime. I shall just have to, as they say, ‘deal with it’.

    310. Wull says:

      One of the main reasons why the UK has no constitution is because there are two views of what the Union is. The ‘Scottish’ view was/is closer to the legal reality. It holds, essentially, that it is a union of two nations, freely entered into, in which the identity of each is retained.
      Both did nevertheless legally dissolve themselves into a new political entity called the UK. Legally speaking, but not emotionally or culturally.
      The ‘English’ view, which operated subliminally but very effectively underneath the legal reality was / is that Edward I’s project had succeeded: Scotland had been liquidated and was now subjected to England. Subjected, that is, to what was still the English parliament, (with a few Scottish members added on, but now operating in the English system, with ‘English’ assumptions).
      Although the result of the referendum is temporarily disheartening, it still represents a victory for the ‘Scottish’ view, especially (I hope) in the long term. We have to keep going …
      At the outset of this journey, David Cameron set his face against giving Scotland (although he called it ‘Alex Salmond’) any consolation prize in this referendum. In the end he buckled, and had to give way. Now it is up to us to stop moping, pick up that consolation prize, and use it to the full. The future is still ahead of us, and will belong to us if, we just keep working at it.

    311. Airdrieonian says:

      B&Q
      M&S
      Asda
      John Lewis
      BBC

      Is this the day of reckoning?

    312. Wull says:

      The referendum squeezed from all the Unionist parties a clear acknowledgement that the UK is a ‘family of nations’. Nations have a right to self-determination. If our nation made the wrong choice this time, it can still make the right one another time.
      This right now extends, within the current family of nations called the UK, not just to Scotland but to Wales. And, indeed, to England.
      If we play our cards rightly, we really are heading towards a federal UK, in which the rights of each of the 3 nations will be recognized.
      By the referendum, we have in fact put an end to the subliminal ‘English’ view of the UK. And all the UK parties have agreed to that. We must not let them wriggle out of it. English people will also eventually applaud and benefit from this. Both ‘English for Yes’, who have adopted the Scottish view already, and English in England who (quite correctly) want Westminster back as THEIR parliament.
      The notion of ‘devolved power’, which always presumed the subliminal ‘English’ view of the Union, is another casualty of the referendum, now on the way out (if we play our cards correctly). The present Scottish parliament will no longer receive its power from Westminster (as present legal fiction would have us believe) but from the people of Scotland.
      Despite the setback, the Scottish view of political power and authority – it is from the people – is gaining ground all around. In fact, it is winning. We did not get everything we wanted, but we did make inroads. In fact, we took a massive step forward. There is much to be grateful for, and a huge amount still to play for: don’t give up now.

    313. iheartScotland says:

      @muttley79,
      Yup, Yes was far too nice,they never drove home the consequences of a No vote hard enough.No was always going to be nasty.
      It’s going to be a long time before I can speak to family members who voted No. Right now, I despise them for voting so selfishly.

    314. Robert Louis says:

      Les Wilson,

      Sorry, but you are literally wasting your time with 38degrees. Several years ago, we tried that approach and got the required support. 38 degrees would NOT act on it, and people were rightly furious. They cam up with all inds of stupid nonsense excuses.

      They will do nothing for you. Their focus is England. IMHO they are a proverbial self serving waste of space, designed to appease the masses.

      Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

    315. muttley79 says:

      @Bugger

      It was always a sick joke.

      However, the referendum is gone and we lost. What is important now is how do we respond. I think we all need to get together (not possible physically), but the communications are now there to enable us collectively to decide what to do now.

      Remember the tactical voting of the 1980s against the Tories? Why not enlarge it to cover SLAB and the Liberal Democrats? Why should indy voters and supporters vote for parties who opposed independence? I know it is very difficult for Labour for Indy, and Labour voters who voted for independence, but the party they supported has died. Over 1.6 million people voted for independence in a referendum. This is effectively a new mass, grouping in Scotland. This is a large constituency to support, nurture, and most importantly to expand.

    316. bookie from hell says:

      canongate only tourists,journalists

      walofs

    317. big jock says:

      Yep vote rigging Dundee apparently will it ever be proven. Fire alarms and low turnout. Co-incidence in a Yes stronghold. Same Glasgow taxis taking boxes to count!

    318. Joe Carroll says:

      Last night when I saw the YouGov poll I knew the game was up and couldn’t say up watching the slow car crash of a NO vote so went to bed, hoping against the odds that when I switched on the radio this morning I’d be greeted by good news – it was not to be and I’m devastated for Scotland and the Yes campaigners and honestly for Ireland too. I for one was looking forward to having a real brother nation around the table at the EU, UN and other fora. I was looking forward to seeing how you delivered on your vision of a new Scotland, a new politics, hoping that it would inspire our people to follow suite and not settle for what passes for political reform and leadership in this Republic.

      Mourning what’s been lost is natural but what was achieved in face of the most vociferous campaign, coordinated by Labour and the Tories, no doubt supported by every apparatus – overt and covert – of the British state (watch for the knighthoods…), a campaign of blackmail, of fear of lies. In the face of this tirade, you stood strong and convinced 1.6m of your fellow countrymen and women to take a leap and believe. Your task now is to show them that the fight is not over, to reframe it and build, to learn the lessons and plan to renew the campaign.

      London will no doubt give you ample ammunition in the coming years; you now have a population whose eyes are open. London don’t care about Scotland, they do care about their prestige, their seat at UN security council, the last vestiges of Empire and there sense of self-importance – Scotland leaving would have been a massive blow to this and hence you felt the full force of the backlash.

      One thing I’m taking away from it, relevant to Ireland too (future NI referendum) is that economics trumps everything in the final analysis so we need to focus on this. One thing that happened in Ireland during the Independence struggle in the 1918-21 period was the alliance of most cultural and political organisations fully behind Independence. Even the Labour Party (something some of them regret) stood aside and allowed Sinn Fein candidates contest elections without nationalist opposition.

      If the independence movement in Scotland is to succeed it needs to broaden the front, it needs to infiltrate organisations and bring them into the fold. WM hope that the new powers they will ‘grant’ will ‘Kill Independence with Kindness’ but this will only work if you let them.

      In 1839 Daniel O’Connell, then still fighting for Irish Homerule said ,the following which could still apply to Scotland.

      “There is an utter ignorance of, and indifference to, our sufferings and privations … What care they for us, provided we be submissive, pay the taxes, furnish recruits for the Army and Navy and bless the masters who either despise or oppress or combine both? The apathy that exists respecting Ireland is worse than the national antipathy they bear us”.

    319. Iain says:

      We are all English now. I am ashamed and disgusted. I’m leaving and will never set foot in this place ever again. I’m done. Good luck to whoever still feels Scottish this morning. There is no point in starting over, it’s too late now. Thanks to WOS for everything, I know Stu meant well.

    320. Dorothy Devine says:

      I am up for a silent vigil at PQ and definitely up for a crowd funded 45 badge Robert Louis!
      ( but being a once bitten nervous cat need to pay by cheque!)

    321. heedtracker says:

      If Scots.gov bring in student fees, end free buss passes etc. it’s only fair. Why put so much work into a region that just told you to F off. Scots uni’s want fees, BetterTogetherists kept raging about tax cuts for the rich through no council tax hikes so now is the definitely the time for the No vote to pay their way. They voted ConDem Slab UKOK and now have got to pay for them. Trident 2 is going to hurt but Aberdeen City council last built councils houses in the early 70’s and Aberdeen voted No thanks or against nonsense in stilts as George Galloway says, you voted No, pay your way.

    322. Robert Louis says:

      I am with others on this. People like ASDA can go swivel. I’d starve before going into any of their stores ever again. Likewise B&Q.

      Perhaps these businesses just haven’t sussed yet that they have insulted almost half the population of Scotland.

      Just for the record, ALDI, LIDL and TESCO did not play along with the filth at Westminster. They will get my business.

    323. Rab says:

      1.6million Scots should now be marching down the M1 to Westminster now, to demand the promise of DEVOMAX by Jan!

    324. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Videos from the count apparently showing counting fraud and ballot stuffing during the count.

      http://shaunynews.com/2014/09/19/why-did-1-million-people-not-vote-who-were-registered-video-proof-cheating/

      If true the result should be canceled and the referendum retaken

    325. laukat says:

      This will be my last post on this site

      I would like to say thanks to everyone who has posted and Revstu who has created a wonderful online community in support of a dream that was close to my heart. Its not through lack of effort of the contributors to this site that we lost.

      However last night two things died.

      Firstly the nation of Scotland died. It had the opportunity to become a nation and chose to be a region of a larger state.

      Secondly hope also died. Hope that the people wanted to do things differently, that society and protecting the weak and poor was more important that what type of BMW you had or the golf course you wanted to join.

      To those who say keep going on I wish you well but I can no longer justify expending effort on people who will not help themselves.If I can I will be looking into emigrating one of the Nordic countries. If I can’t I will encourage my kids to go. There is no way forward in the UK for people who believe in society and looking after the weakest

    326. ScottieDog says:

      Off to Lake District to meet with a bunch of people from rUK who want change.

      Please have a look at this and help us change things..
      http://www.positivemoney.org/2014/08/7-10-mps-dont-know-creates-money-uk/

      The best antidote to despair is action.

    327. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @oneironaut –

      Hang in there pal. You’re a hero.

      That’s one fight over. We lost.

      There will be a next time. And, as someone said upthread, we will be ready for it.

    328. bookie from hell says:

      check this out—ballot fraud on camera

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJif7vISQg

    329. ronnie anderson says:

      On the early results of the Western Isles,I made the comment if its to be a NO it may not be a bad result,the British Establishment will apply they’re austerity cuts,& fuckup they’re Devolution proposals. We never lost ground we gained ground ( 45% ) of the Electorate voted for Change,more pain from Westminster, will consentrate minds & gain more ground.Fuck the result,who said it would stop the Independance Movement for a Generation ( Cameron Westminster ) We the Free People of Scotland decide to save the next Generation,in the intrim we have other fights on our hands THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA for starters, then the 2015 GE to give the Labour Party a real bloody nose & send more SNPs MPs to Westminster, we depeated Labour in Nth Lanarkshire last night we can do it again. Stand our ground, regroup I never heard Jackie Baillie singing last night.SAOR ALBA

    330. BigSteveChisholm says:

      @ Robert Louis

      You beat me to it.

      Badges. T shirts. ‘We are the 45′. Or simply ’45’.
      I’d be proud to identify myself as one of that number.

      (remove all refs to ‘was’, past tense, this isn’t over yet)

      For starters –
      BBC – starve them of funding in Scotland, hold them to account
      The Scotsman – kill it stone dead.

      Someone mentioned a National Scottish Savings Bank. Has Holyrood any authority to do such a thing without Westminster interference? I’d move my money in a heartbeat.

    331. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      It is hard to express the distress and indeed the disgust which I’m sure I share with most of you this morning.
      My distress is all the worse because I strongly believed we were winning well. This was based largely on the information (confirmed by the vote ) that we were winning Glasgow and environs which should have guaranteed us victory.

      There was a niggling doubt which grew during the campaign that our drive for the Labour and the left wing vote was resulting in us to ignoring to a considerable extent our more traditional vote in many areas in which we assume success and I think the fact that we lost in both Moray and Argyll and Bute to name but two rather bears that out.

      As a Glaswegian the less than generous opinion I have held of the citizens of Edinburgh was reinforced last night. Not only did they throw away the opportunity to arrive in the world as a proud capital city of an independent country they also seemed oblivious to the huge economical
      boost this would have given their city as embassies and head offices moved in.
      We need to ship the population out or make Glasgow our capital!

      However there is no going back. We must reflect and regroup. Most intelligent and informed people (except those with vested interest) voted YES yesterday. This particularly applies to a generation of our young people who came to support us with such vigour over the last few months.
      We cannot lose them.
      The baton is handed on.
      And we cannot lose Glasgow.
      There is a UK General Election a few months from now. The fight back is started

      I would recommend to everybody a letter in today’s Herald from David Stubely.
      There are many liars in high positions sitting with big smiles today. During our campaign which was relentlessly positive we wasted no time in arguing with them or accusing them.
      The gloves are off. We should destroy them now

    332. Ally McEwen says:

      My thanks to all on here . Stu, of course, and everyone else. You are true Scots (and adopted Scots) each and evry one. It’s been the most uplifting period of my life.
      Like Bitter Together I too have a vow. From here on I will take as little as possible to do with the British state and establishment. And when I must I will treat it with contempt and disdain.
      Started of course with TV licence.

    333. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      ewen at 9.51

      Exactly

    334. JET JOCKEY says:

      There were so many issues that the yes campaign some how did not bring to the front and challenge the no leaders. 1 the Macrone Report, who was responsible for keeping it a secret and the question why was it kept secret, this would have been very difficult to answer truthfully . 2 The 6000 square miles that were moved into English waters without consultation again how could this have been explained “truthfully”. A friend of mine published a letter in the Dundee Courier explaining this , and had over 100 phone calls from people that were not even aware of the contents of the Macrone report and knew nothing of the border change in the North Sea but actually the article was enough switch them from a no vote, If one article/comment in a newspaper can swing voters why was this not exploited by the yes campaign this for some Scots must give them doubts about the sincerity of the whole movement.

    335. CarolDuhart (Aquariusmoon) says:

      From an American who suffered disappointment in 2000-the barrier is the older generation-that’s what I’m hearing. Mostly elderly who are afraid of pensions being lost and whatnot. The young want change that Westminster can’t give.

      Game plan: keep making the case for independence and wait a few years. My colleagues predict Scotland will be free in five years, and that th e change is inevitable. 300,000 is too narrow an amount for “national unity”. Cameron should not sleep easy. Scotland is only in due to a few pensioners who will go soon. There is only fear for the rest, and fear has faded. They have failed to make an affirmative case for union.

      Secondly, Carter Center has election observers. Institute exit polling. And update that WBB for the long argument for democracy.

    336. Slimebags says:

      Just returned from Lochgilphead and watched in complete disgust the LIbdem nonentity Alan Reid getting patted on the back by a labourite arse and between them and the blue wrince brigade they are all delighted at the No success. Positive notes for Argyll, at least each of our areas, Oban, Lochgilphead, Dunoon Bute and Helensburgh can all get their own Food Banks now. the opportunity to continue low pay levels for the people is now possible and believe me the first person I hear complaining about Mr Cameron or Mr CLegg Will be getting told a thing or two. Utterly disgusted Scotland, utter shame on those who voted no and utter embarrassment for us all as a nation in the eyes of the world. We have now been promoted to below the level of principality.
      However , Westminster beckons so let’s fill it with the YES Scotland team ! Hurt to the core but not i

    337. FergusMac says:

      As some people have said it would, this makes us an international laughing-stock.

      I have just had an e-mail from someone in Sweden. He starts it:

      “Hi you member in Great Britain”

      Thank you, Quislings, you pathetic North Britons who did indeed “bow before your Imperial Masters”

    338. Free Scotland says:

      Yes voters who were part of Labour for Independence are very unlikely to return to the sinking ship of Scottish Labour, so the case for Scottish independence can look forward to huge representation in Scotland in the run up to the UK general election and, a year later, the 2016 Scottish General election. You thought you’d seen Westminster squirm? You ain’t seen nothing yet. Stay alert!

    339. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      t is hard to express the distress and indeed the disgust which I’m sure I share with most of you this morning.
      My distress is all the worse because I strongly believed we were winning well. This was based largely on the information (confirmed by the vote ) that we were winning Glasgow and environs which should have guaranteed us victory.
      There was a niggling doubt which grew during the campaign that our drive for the Labour and the left wing vote was resulting in us to ignoring to a considerable extent our more traditional vote in many areas in which we assume success and I think the fact that we lost in both Moray and Argyll and Bute to name but two rather bears that out.

      As a Glaswegian the less than generous opinion I have held of the citizens of Edinburgh was reinforced last night. Not only did they throw away the opportunity to arrive in the world as a proud capital city of an independent country they also seemed oblivious to the huge economical
      boost this would have given their city as embassies and head offices moved in.
      We need to ship the population out or make Glasgow our capital!

      However there is no going back. We must reflect and regroup. Most intelligent and informed people (except those with vested interest) voted YES yesterday. This particularly applies to a generation of our young people who came to support us with such vigour over the last few months.
      We cannot lose them.
      The baton is handed on.
      And we cannot lose Glasgow.
      There is a UK General Election a few months from now. The fight back is started

      I would recommend to everybody a letter in today’s Herald from David Stubely.
      There are many liars in high positions sitting with big smiles today. During our campaign which was relentlessly positive we wasted no time in arguing with them or accusing them.
      The gloves are off. We should destroy them now

    340. heedtracker says:

      The YouTube vote fraud is horrifying.

    341. desimond says:

      I watched the first few come in and resisted punching the TV with Mags Curran actually saying “People in my constituency(Easterhouse) have been coming up saying “The share prices are falling!!”

      Grabbed pillow, slept on couch till 5 and awoke to bad news coming in and went to bed after telling daughter Morgan who was very upset.

      To think we now have a glorified Alastair Darling, Douglas Alexander, Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy. To watch Nick Robinson sit there on BBC as results came in said it all.

      A poor turn out in Glasgow and Dundee but at least the people that showed knew the score, the rest are apparently living the dream as there cant be that many scared pensioners surely? I now dread someone asking “Where you from?”. This pain is absolute.

      We hoped the campaign and regardless of any result this would galvanise peoples interest in politics, I fear thats just a dream now..I’m scunnered and done and I think a lot of people will be the same. Its like we got to the World Cup Final and turns out our own team conspired to beat us, hard to come back from that.

      Well done to all here for such great work and effort, you did great things for a former once proud country. I can appreciate some folk saying next time but right now Im done. The whole place is going to burn down in austerity cuts and divide and conquer poltical tactics and it wont be long before it arrives.

      Im not even looking at the news, I cant. Keep wondering if Alex Salmond will call for a vote of no confidence mind and go for new scottish government but he has a majority just now so what difference would it make really.

      Im not even going near a triumphant hollow promise laden David Cameron Speech…in 6-9 months you are looking at Boris Johnston and Nigel Farage getting around a table while Scottish people moan about a sliding pound or share price ( we dont care about people anymore it seems) and the NHS Scotland declare it has so many cuts it may have to amalgamate with England and Labour rejoice!

      Had one guy in work stating “THEY’ve stirred up sh*t that will take years for us to fix”….funny how people dont even recognise the democratic elected party in Scotland, its as if SNP just appeared out of thin air and stole the keys but now have their comeuppance.

      The Establishment will remove any chance of a challenge again and the Scots Govt will lose power and money to primary councils and be left limping along like a Blackpool tourist attraction. The SNP might take Glasgow council but will make no difference really, the chance has gone, The people have spoken and they have said “I love being a servant, whip me when you wish, its my reason to live”.

      Im going to stop now and if i dont i will be writing all day.
      Regards
      Desimond

      PS..How long before new oil field find is officially disclosed by head of BP who wanted to save the Union…place ur bets

    342. annie says:

      If anyone looking for a silver lining Jackie Baillie’s constituency voted Yes.

    343. Dal Riata says:

      For the first in my life, today I’m ashamed and embarrassed to be Scottish.

      Haven’t felt so bad for a long, long time.

      Today I cry for my country and the 45% of us who truly believed.

      Fear over hope.

      The day the music died.

    344. highseastim says:

      Dave MacEwan Hill @10.14

      I was extremely disappointed at the Moray result, but to say that the YES campaign neglected the area is untrue, there was a very strong YES campaign and I attended several meetings. At the same time I have yet to see any NO canvassers on the street.

    345. Les Wilson says:

      Robert Louis says:

      It sounded the right thing to do, but thanks for putting me wise. But I am unsure why then they would do this, to not act upon it, what sense does that make?

    346. heedtracker says:

      Maybe the first female counter in the vote rigging video is just correcting herself but why are Yes vote ballot papers on the No plies and why the hell has that man got a pen and what is he filling in?

    347. Airdrieonian says:

      I would urge people who have MPs and MSPs of the Unionist persuasion to get down to the surgeries en mass.
      Use this so called democratic system to demand that these people deliver on their promises.
      Hound the bastards. Make their lives as difficult as possible.

    348. Jim McIntosh says:

      Bought and sold for english gold…….again!

    349. Croompenstein says:

      Cancelled my TV license, cancelled Sky I am now going to my branch of RBS to close my accounts. Let these bastards reap the whirlwind. Scotland condemned to more years of fear and sectarian bigotry fuelled by the British Establishment. Hit the fuckers where it hurts them most

    350. muttley79 says:

      I think there is still a lot of ignorance around about Scottish politics. I know a lot of Yessers say that we are now the best informed voters in the West, but I am not convinced at all that this is the case.

      I still believe that to win independence we need to take on, and significantly reduce SLAB’s local authority powerbases.

    351. Robert Louis says:

      Laukat,

      I know how you feel. Don’t make this your last post. Here’s why. Most of the pople who voted NO were just ordinary folk, who think the BBC is honest and true, and so were scared by BBC and newspaper propaganda. They are not the ones to blame. Of course there are mronic ‘scottish’ rugby players and ex players who happily sing ‘for we shall rise up and be a nation again’, yet who given the chance to do so, run away greetin to London, but I think they are a minority.

      The people to blame are the lying filth in the BBC and the so-called ‘scottish’ newspapers, who have sytematically lied and deceived the people of Scotland.

      Take heart in the fact that almost one half of the Scottish population voted YES. They need people like us.

      Chin up. The fight continues 🙂 (next referendum is next year, just after Labour are soundly trashed in the UK general election).

    352. heraldnomore says:

      Just managed to listen to the FM speech. How do these guys do it? I’m breaking up inside and he comes up with that.

      Then I catch up on the last couple of hours here. I want to feats on chocolate, and realise this is the soup day on my 5:2, which is the nearest I’ll get to the dignity of some of our politicians

    353. Another Union Dividend says:

      Study the population demographics and go figure the fact that the majority of Scottish born residents voted for independence.

      Labour has signed up to its own death warrant as Cameron will curb Scottish MPs rights to vote on English matters at Westminster which means that Labour will not be able to put through social democratic measures even it actually wanted to.

      The fight goes on as the pig’s ear “vow” by the three stooges is a poisoned chalice and will work against Scotland.

      To win over the “conservatives” we must now campaign for a federal or proper Devo Max option over the next few years.

    354. Wull says:

      I was never in favour of devo-max, and wanted independence. I still do. The question now is one of strategy. We have to accept that 55% did not agree with us and, for now, they are the majority. It is probably true that some devo-max voters who moved to yes when devo-max was taken off the agenda moved back again in the last ten days, when devo-max seemed to come back.
      It is now important that, accepting the result, we make common cause with the ‘devo-maxers’ and get the maximum from these promises. In fact, get more – much more – than was promised. Squeeze every promise to the maximum degree possible.
      And we have to move fast on that one.
      One of the reasons Gordon Brown and co put up such a quick ‘timetable’ for the consultation that is supposed to take place was to catch us (the other 45%) napping. He / they hope we are so despondent, and in such disarray, that we don’t show up for the consultation, and don’t make ourselves heard. The regrouping has to start now, so as to press home on as many of the issues as we possibly can.
      They promised us NHS funding would not diminish: we have to make sure we get that (and more: it should keep rising).
      They promised to keep the Barnett formula. We must ensure that that is not done in such a way that what we get from it will in real terms go down (a very strong possibility if we are not careful).
      We should press for a proper per centage of the oil revenues from our waters.
      We should press – now that we are part of the Union! – for a return of that part of our waters that was stolen from us in 1999, when the boundary in the North Sea between our two nations was redrawn without our permission.
      We should press the point about how successive UK governments lied to us about the worth of our own resources in the North Sea (Dennis Healy’s admission) and ensure that it is written into any quasi-constitutional settlement that this can never happen again.
      We should insist on a formal acknowledgement that the people of Scotland are sovereign in Scotland.
      We should insist on Scottish control over broadcasting in Scotland. In this regard, please JOIN THE PETITION THAT HAS BEEN LAUNCHED by NEWSNET SCOTLAND.
      And there are so many other issues – and other promises they made to which we must hold them accountable.

    355. heraldnomore says:

      feast! it’s the tears

    356. Nana Smith says:

      They knew before they sat down in the tv studios last night they had the vote rigged. That’s also why the betting shops were so keen to get more bets on.

      I don’t think I have ever been so angry at Westminster & media corruption.

      I really have grave misgivings about the future and YES Scotland and the snp, green,radical indy etc all need to be made aware of the vote rigging.

      I have no contacts with any of these parties but hope someone has and can send the video on.

    357. Robert Louis says:

      JET JOCKEY,

      Those things were repeatedly brought up. They were not reported by our lying filthy scum ‘scottish’ media. Not the SNP’s fault.

    358. muttley79 says:

      I hope Rev Stu continues with Wings and covering Scottish politics. We need him, Bella Caledonia, National Collective, to continue to provide an alternative to the biased MSM in Scotland.

    359. jackie g says:

      Someone has emailed me from 38 Degrees? asking me to sign a petition begging the three aimegos to implement the powers they offered last week.Am i right in thinking you can Kiss my ASS please David do as you said euck

    360. JWil says:

      It will be interesting to hear what Lamont comes up with at FMQs when she now has no need to fill her time with attacks on Alex Salmond. She will have to start explaining what she will do for Scotland. She is now totally exposed.

    361. Flower of Scotland says:

      There are a few videos on Facebook about vote rigging especially Dundee. There is a petition by 38 degrees for a re vote. Seemingly some papers were shredded so not recount!
      People were talking about the Dundee one on Facebook last night!

      I’m sure we will never be allowed Independence!

    362. Pierre says:

      Avoiding the media today and probably the weekend as I just cannot stand the gloating. Just gutted with the result but as one who has made the journey from indifference to a strong supporter of independence we must not withdraw from political engagement as some suggested earlier this morning as events unfolded. We must not disengage. That’s exactly what the establishment wants. We need more than ever places like Wings where we can share our aims and hopes and point to the lies propagated by the MSM. I don’t want to lose the wise words written and published on sites such as Derek Bateman, Bella Caledonia, Wee Ginger Dug etc etc.
      We are a significant minority (45%) and our voice needs to be heard for its certain the MSM will ever give a fair representation of our views. It would be good to hear of any plans or links where we can share news / views, monitor developments such as “new discoveries” of oil fields / the progress of new powers through WM and generally keep an eye on the establishment and MSM.
      My wife & I are both OAPs and we both voted Yes so we can hold our heads up high this morning despite the disappointment. She is off into town still sporting her Yes badge to have tea with her sister, who was persuaded also to vote yes, so be assured not all the wrinklies sided with the Nos. – well in Dundee at least!

    363. JWil says:

      It will be interesting to hear what Lamont comes up with at FMQs when she now has no need to fill het time with attacks on Alex Salmond. She will have to start explaining what she will do for Scotland. She is now totally exposed.

    364. Betty Boop says:

      @Patrician, 7:24am

      my son just announced; this is it, as soon as he finishes University in 4 years he is leaving to go live in a country that has some self respect 🙁

      As soon as they were up around 7.00am, one son announced a trip he is making to apply for a Canadian work permit and the other got straight on with looking for positions overseas.

      My other son will undoubtedly, at some point, do the same.
      All are graduates and very highly educated.

    365. Nicola Wood says:

      Thanks Rev and Wingers,

      I’ve decided to permanently move to Spain and get away from Scotland and politics forever … it messes with your head, emotions and your wallet – and few of us can endure that roller-coaster of torture.

      Very disappointed in the people of Scotland and especially with the British media. However, we have to move on and see what happens with devolution in the months and years ahead.

      Scotland yesterday, albeit by a small margin, voted to be the northernmost region of the United Kingdom and not a proud and ancient nation in it’s own right.

      Anyhow, best wishes to everyone on this site and God bless.

      Politics is for some …. but not for me.

      Nicola

    366. BigSteveChisholm says:

      @ Robert Louis

      You beat me to it.

      Badges. T shirts. ‘We are the 45′. Or simply ’45’.
      I’d be proud to identify myself as one of that number.

      (remove all refs to ‘was’, past tense, this isn’t over yet)

      For starters –
      BBC – starve them of funding in Scotland, hold them to account
      The Scotsman – kill it stone dead.

      Someone mentioned a National Scottish Savings Bank. Has Holyrood any authority to establish such a thing without Westminster interference? I’d move my money in a heartbeat.

    367. bobloblawslawblog says:

      We need a newspaper that is not in the thrall of the UK establishment. Surely 1.6 million voters could provide very decent seed money to start one?

    368. Ann says:

      Do you know what really pisses me off? The people who voted No want their free prescriptions, free education, NHS etc etc and why do they have this – because of SNP not their precious Labour. I am disgusted.

    369. scotdoc72 says:

      Sad, perhaps : but that is democracy and I had tears in my eyes realising how many folk on both sides engaged with the debate and voted. We are a great nation and must continue to work with our friends and families wherever they live and work.

      Time for a period of rest and reflection all round.

    370. Hobbit says:

      And this, to me, is the biggest mystery:

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/resounding-no-in-alex-salmond-s-own-constituency-1-3546733

      I think people in 2011 voted SNP b/c they were seen as a competent party of government, not because they actually wanted independence.

      Other questions – why was the vote in Edinburgh so comprehensively no, when the Yes campaign had made most of the running?

      Why was Jim Sillars allowed to **** up the Yes campaign with his foolish comments about a day of reckoning? (there’s certainly been one of those).

      Why did the loony left get the airtime they did in the yes campaign?

    371. msean says:

      Scotland-here’s what you could have won…stuff by BBC.
      Laughing at you Scotland.

      Wait till we hear the squeals of delight when they get their tax bills varied by +3% or more lol. Turkeys for christmas comes to mind. When it happens,remember,you voted for it alongside keeping Trident,atos,sanctions,child poverty,foodbanks,bankers tory/ukip governments and the Labour party. All yours.

    372. JRH says:

      After over forty years voting SNP and trying to convince others of the benefits of independence it all came down to 15 hours of freedom before the “proud Scots” amoung us handed power back to the London elite.

      I admire those who will carry on the fight but for me the ship has sailed. From today my priority will be finding a new home in a country not full of spineless wonders who care more about Eastenders and Strictly than finding out the truth about their own land.

      We can blame in English incomers or the biased media but in truth the fault lies with two million who voted for a status quo which does not exist.

      Scotland is now at the mercy of the UK establishment who will take their revenge for our audacity.

      We will now doubt get the “new power” to increase taxes to help cover some of the reduction in the London grant which will surely come.

      Higher taxes here than in England will only encourage our best young folk to go south where wages are already better and so the circle of decline continues.

      If it was not so sad I could laugh at those “Better Together” idiots last night cheering their victory in securing higher taxes and poorer services for Scotlands future.

      I said before that the choice was between Scotland becomming a real country running it’s own afairs or a second class region.

      We have our answer welcome to North Britain.

      Good luck to all those who remain you will need it and finaly a big thanks to all who have contributed to this site over the last year of so it gave me hope that the impossible could happen.

      Scotland does not deserve you.

    373. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Look at this. Ballot box being unsealed and ballot papers being lifted out in one neat pile. WTF ? make your own mind up.

      http://www.shaunynews.com/2014/09/19/why-did-1-million-people-not-vote-who-were-registered-video-proof-cheating/

    374. caz-m says:

      In the eyes of the world, Scotland “bottled it”.

      I am beelin, ragin, angry at those cowards who have voted to let Westminster boot the shit out of us whenever they feel like it.

      My BBC license is getting cancelled today.

      For all you Scotland football team supporters who voted NO, you lot can hang you’re heads in shame. You lot have the cheek to stand and sing “Flower of Scotland” then go out and vote NO.

      We were “too nice” all the way through this campaign.

      Tommy Sheridan stirred up the passion and convinced many more people to vote YES than the mild mannered Blair Jenkins could ever have done.

    375. heedtracker says:

      So BBC coverage BetterTogether last night looked they had win from 10pm, betfair etc giving 10/1 yes and more at same time and now YouTube vids of some highly suspect behaviour by ballot counters. How many vote fraudsters would they need at each count to stuff enough ballot boxes. The police have got to get involved in here.

    376. bookie from hell says:

      breaking news

      im joining CND

    377. MacCumhail says:

      What on earth have we just done? It hasn’t even sunk in yet. The street feels like a morgue.was it rigged?

      What is next? We must organise and keep going. If we give up now we will truly have lost.

    378. Marian says:

      The SNP and Greens and Labour for Indy YES supporting parties and YES movement should rapidly capitalise on the setting aside of differences they showed in the YES campaign join forces very soon to form a new single political party with its sole objective a federal Scotland with full fiscal autonomy in time to join the campaign for the May 2015 UK general election, and called e.g. the Scottish Federal Democracy Party.

      This new party should be supported by a new federal supporting subscription funded daily online newspaper provide news and video just as most of the large newspapers are now doing in the USA, formed by the merger of Newsnet Scotland, WoS, and Bella Caledonia, and anyone else that supports the federal Scotland objective.

      The voters in Glasgow, Dundee, the West of Scotland, and elsewhere are now clearly disillusioned with the Westminster parties and a new political party with a federal objective can win the support of those voters to elect a very large contingent of pro-federal MP’s to Westminster who could hold the balance of power and ensure Scotland gets a true federal government with full fiscal autonomy.

    379. Golfnut says:

      I am not ashamed, I voted Yes along with 1.6 million others.
      Back in the box, what box?

      I’m off to play golf, clear my head, piss up the leg of the first
      Nay-sayer I meet.
      The SG should resign as the Gov, and sit in opposition and watch
      Lamont flounder.

      We have 2 elections to fight.
      Soar Caesar!

    380. Now's the Hour says:

      We have lost a battle, but we have not lost the war. Corrupt systems of government inevitably bring about their own demise.

    381. Martin Wood says:

      This is not over…

      ….not by a long, long way.

    382. Capella says:

      I think we need to analyse this result and find some answers to the many questions. Why was the turnout in Glasgow and Dundee so low? What was the problem when the fire alarm went off at the Dundee count and everyone was evacuated? These were the two most indyref cities. Let’s not assume that all was above board before we have looked at the facts.
      But first, a rest and recuperate! Thanks everyone for being there and being so witty and intelligent!

    383. Jake2 says:

      Well what do we make of that?
      The size of the no majority was shocking, and for me embarrassing.
      Embarrassing that so many in this country couldn’t or wouldn’t believe that we were capable of a better future and to do it in front of the world.
      I am tired as I bet many of us are this morning, I am raw.
      I am ashamed of the majority of my countrymen, thats perhaps selfish but nobody ever said emotion was logical.
      I believed, for a short while that our future was limitless save from the limits we ourselves imposed. That felt really good, the air of optimism was fresh, clear and invigorating. It seemed to be everywhere.
      Now ? Our future is what Westminster tells us it is.
      Thats very hard to take.
      We had a chance to take control of 100% of our future and what did we do?
      We gave it away.
      Why on Earth would anyone do that? I doubt I will ever understand that.

      Is it cowardice? Too afraid of what might happen?

      Too weak to believe that we might actually make it better?

      Greed? Individuals frightened their lives may get a little harder for a short time in order to make the country better for everyone?

      Selfishness? I’m alright so why risk it?

      Ignorance? Never looking beyond what the media told them to believe?

      I dont know, I will never know and it makes no difference what I think.

      So what now?
      I am skeptical of what we were promised by Cameron, Clegg and Milliband it appeared panicked and ill thought. We are promised that they will talk about giving us 40% control, maybe.
      They promised what they rejected years ago.
      They promised what they can’t deliver. It still has to be voted through by Westminster.

      And for reasons I cannot understand the majority bought it.

      I read that tory backbench MPS have already stated they will vote it down and that they have the numbers to do it.
      Then what?
      Do I try take solice in saying I told you so? What would be the point in that?

      By your decision we are all condemned. You, me, all our children.

      Are you proud of what you have done? Will you still be proud in a few months?

      I am ashamed, embarrassed and disgusted by the majority of the electorate this morning. You did NOT speak for me.

      A dream I have had since childhood, but never really dared to believe it would come true, came so very close and was given away by others.
      Tell me no voter, as by your choice I must live,
      What do we believe in now? What do we hope for? What do we aspire too?

      I am proud of all of us that believed in a better future even for a short time, it felt really good.
      Now?
      Now I see the near future the same as the recent past, that does not fill me with any hope at all.
      But how I feel as an individual is inconsequential.
      As is how Scotland feels in Westminster.
      You may have damned us all for generations.
      May God forgive you for what you have done. Because right now I can’t.

    384. Wull says:

      The more federal Britain becomes, the better for the possibilities of independence in the long term. Keep the momentum going in that direction. And let the English have Westminster as their parliament (hopefully with some compensation to Scotland, since Scottish taxpayers contributed to setting up the building).
      Basically, if it becomes a federal state, the ‘United’ bit will concern foreign policy and defence. There is already a division on these matters, and it will get worse. For instance, on Trident (and its renewal) and on staying in Europe, or leaving it.
      If there is a referendum on Europe and Scotland votes one way, while the rest of the UK votes the other, it will be ‘game on’ again, faster than we know it. Even the billions to be spent on renewing Trident will be a hot issue …
      But that gives us a few years to learn from the present referendum, and be ready. Mistakes were made… Inevitably so – no need to blame anyone – but they will have to be rectified. Next time, we will need a real alternative to currency union (only one example) …
      It won’t surprise any of us if by then we will have discovered there is much more oil in the sea than anyone ever imagined … That can only be a good thing (not least for an independent currency ??)

    385. big jock says:

      The 45 T shirts is a good idea. We can wear it and know who are countrymen and women are and not the Brits.

    386. handclapping says:

      Then, when I was a student nationalist because they had better parties, the National Conference of the SNP was held in half the ballroom of the Golden Lion in Stirling and they had had an MP once almost 20 years before.

      Yesterday nearly 1 in 2 Scots agreed that Scotland could do better.

      Tomorrow …

      (but only if we keep going)

    387. big jock says:

      There is no reason we cannot have a referendum after 2016. Things can change very quickly after the next 2015 election.

    388. Free Scotland says:

      I don’t have facebook or twitter, but can I ask anyone who has to share this link. It shows someone opening a ballot box and pulling out a nice, neat pile of ballot papers which have not even been folded in half. MI5 vote-rigging sons-of-bitches.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rtzhuMJqwY

    389. Les Wilson says:

      can someone capture the ballot box fraud video before it gets removed by the dark forces.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJif7vISQg&app=desktop

      I do not know how to do it unfortunately

    390. Chris Baxter says:

      England should have a vote on whether it continues to subsidise (in its people’s eyes) Scotland.

    391. squarego says:

      The 45 can be the seed of a political movement across these isles. When UKIP/Con bites there will be millions who reject the neolib rampage and will have nowhere to turn.

      We must hold and be ready.
      We must not splinter (so slightly more people in Edinburgh were conned than in Glasgow – so what?) Look at the demand for change. Even some No voters thought they were voting for change. How pissed off are they gonna be?

      The establishment won the battle for Scotland – but the war isn’t over.

      We can still take the corrupt Westminster down. But maybe it has to be for the UK and not just for Scotland.

    392. scotspine says:

      Two NO Voting fuds outside the Istore in Edinburgh waiting with excitement for their “must have” gadget.

      Priorities eh?

    393. heraldnomore says:

      I’ll gladly make a monthly contribution to help Stu continue. How much are papers and the telly tax?

    394. Valerie says:

      Watching people who have queued since Third. For their new iPhone at 10’45am after the vote, we need to accept this is a right wing country hungry for a gadget made on the back of wage slavery in 3rd world countries. Time to sadly wake up, people just care enough about others. I’m proud of Yes voters but feel very sullied by the No voters. I am sorry to read of those young people above already planning to leave Scotland, I feel like that too, and have tears at that thought

    395. Big Del says:

      @ Molly.

      I am also getting one made today.

      “Scotland a nation of shit bags”

    396. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      highseastim at 10.22

      Do not misunderstand me. In Argyll and Bute hundreds of us worked our socks off as well. And I’m not blaming anybody . It was imperative that we broke the Labour vote if we had to win.

      But political campaigns are made of hard choices and the non Labour majority in many seats probably did not relate to a lot of the YES campaign

    397. bookie from hell says:

      shirt cant be 45% as its 44.70%

      im 1.6 mill

    398. Capella says:

      We have an imperfect democracy. The will of the people can be manipulated in many ways as has just been demonstrated. Let’s work to develop a genuine media. I have no desire to listen to the BBC ever again or read any newspaper. Let’s develop an alternative. A first-past-the-post system in Westminster is useless. Corrupt MPs bought and paid for by corporations are useless. Now is the time to pursue a genuine democracy that we can all subscribe to.

    399. bookie from hell says:

      Im a unionist lap dog

    400. Fairliered says:

      O/T We will all be feeling angry, upset and let down today.
      Scotland’s vulnerable children and families will need our support even more as they are attacked by the neocons, neolabs and neolibs.
      If you want to help and fill the void left now that campaigning for Yes is over, the Childrens Panel are recruiting new members. The care and compassion to their fellow scots, shown by Wingers, are ideal qualities for membership.
      If you want to know more, check out http://www.childrenspanelscotland.org

      Fairliered (Charles Fisher)
      One of the 45

    401. Sue Varley says:

      Hi all. Deeply saddened for all of us, especially the ones who needed it most who will bear the worst of Westminster’s anger. Been in tears all night, swinging between despair, contempt and anger, but I read the Wee Ginger Dug, I’ve calmed down and I’ve just put my YES badge back on.

      I’ve worn it for a year and it’s not coming off again. Don’t know how we’ll fight on, I’m a follower not a leader, but I’m not giving in. Scotland adopted me, I’m not giving up on her.

    402. Geoff Huijer says:

      The people on here have been amazing; intelligent, supportive and informative.

      I admire those with the will to ‘fight on’.

      At this oment I don’t know what to do – it feels like there is no fight left in me. There is no protest viable either – I don’t buy newspapers, I don’t have a TV licence, I have no insurance of any sort to cancel and I can’t afford to shop at the likes of ASDA. I had a plate of cabbage yesterday and before that the last time I ate was Monday. I guess I have to swallow my pride and get to a foodbank. I tried once before but was told i lived in the ‘wrong postcode’.

      I have been living on HOPE – RLS sums it ‘to travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive’. There is no hope now. Another winter beckons of coats & hat in bed, in pinching my dog’s food and trying furiously to get jobs that either aren’t there or I have no chance of getting.

      Getting clean & sober 8 years ago was the start of a new life; a hopeful life, but this is a crushing blow. I can’t (won’t) even take anything to numb the pain. I guess they call that character building. Some people ask ‘have you not had pain in your life’ etc. Well, yes – too much actually; and this was the last vestige of hope of a future with less pain. I can’t even flee as I have no passport and am unlikely to be able to afford one.

      I should leave it here coz I’m rambling; stunned at people who voted for the continued demonisation of the poor, weak and vulnerable, the elderly, disabled and unemployed. Scotland the country died today & something inside me died alongside it.

    403. ewen says:

      I don’t know anyone who is a no. Where did all the yes votes go? If every winger knows 10 non winger yes voters, that is a lot of votes so where did they all go? If every person on the streets with a yes badge voted Yes, where did all the votes go?
      I’m confused.

    404. Stuart says:

      At least 1.6M voted for change, not including those in the 2M who thought they were getting “Devo Max” or additional powers. Post Yes I would have voted for a revitalised Labour or Green, but now I must be cynical. I will be voting SNP in every election to ram home that we want change. Labour Scotland and the media have been the biggest let down for me in this campaign. Given their output I understand why people voted No even though I don’t agree with it. I will never trust the MSM/Labour.

    405. jackie g says:

      Interesting listening to conversations at work

      keeping stum) most are labour voters saying our street was definatly NO look what Labour have done for us blah blah blah sod the poor its their own fault,
      what did they actually think they would win i need a new ipod,you get the gist supposed working class sending kids to private school beggers belief welcome to Labour’s Middle class 2014.

    406. Indy_Scot says:

      What this experience has taught me is that the media, Westminster and the British state will do what ever it takes to prevent Scotland becoming Independent, whether it is today or in the future.

      The bottom line Scotland is a joke of a country, and always will be, something I will need to learn to accept.

      I hugged each of my young children today and apologised to them for their loss.

      I am sure that many of my neighbours voted No. Not so sure I will ever see them again in the same light.

      I will now have a lot more free time on my hands. I intended to use it to make my children’s lives the best possible I can.

      I wish all of you the best for the future.

    407. Snode1965 says:

      In the cold light of day, looking at the area’s that voted for YES , these were the industrial heartlands of Scotland. These are the people who have been the worst affected by the Westminster gov. Whereas Edinburgh and Aberdeen have gained from the union economically.

    408. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Where can I get a 45 badge

    409. I'veNeverSeenBraveheart says:

      I should probably stop posting, I’ve hardly slept and it won’t be coherent, and probably not helpful either, but I’ve nowhere else to vent!

      I feel a bit stupid, perhaps gullible, for even believing we could actually do this! I actually secretly thought maybe we could get 60%! I feel daft now! But on Wed, in Glasgow, it was amazing! There was such an energy, everyone had a smile on their face, George Square was electric, and there was a sense that *something* was happening. I’m glad we got to experience that at least.

      But what went wrong? Were we blind to the real picture? Were people polite or simply lying to pollsters and canvassers? Or darker jiggery-pokery? (I don’t think the latter, and think it only makes us look like minority nutters when we declare a fix).

      I’m trying not to be angry at those who voted No, but the only people I know personally who voted No did so for infuriating reasons! I know I’m not being fair saying that, and everyone is entitled to their view, and they probably think my reasons are equally infuriating and stupid, but still.

      One sister voted no because firms would not invest in R&D, her mortgage may go up, and she got a threatening letter from her work. Other sister voted no because there’ll be no jobs (despite struggling to get a permanent job herself at the moment) and we can’t go back if it all goes wrong, conveniently forgetting that it already has all gone wrong here already. But they are relatively well off, with a nice house, car etc, whereas I am the daft sibling on benefits so what do I know?! I’m trying hard not to take it personally, but it does feel as if us underclass who have to rely on benefits have been kicked again. It hurts that my family have not considered that they are condemning me & my kids to more austerity cuts. The infuriating thing is I was a politics student, I’ve lived & breathed this for years. They’ve just read the local paper & watched the BBC!

      Finally a friend said he was voting no because it was the only way to ensure social justice for all – well, good luck with that…

      It hurts that in the end he was on the same side as the right wing thugs giving Nazi salutes in George Square, and that idiot Coburn given free reign to spout nonsense on BBC!

      I think the saddest thing I saw was the old woman on Channel 4 a few nights ago, who, when asked why she was voting No, could only give “well, my family have always voted Labour” as an excuse, with a limp smile…

      Probably should go to bed now…

    410. Capella says:

      Don’t give up Geoff. We’re all still here. Let’s develop a future strategy for our politics which is not represented at the moment. Westminster has demonstrated that the Sottish Government has no control over the real levers of power. Labour is dead. The Tories died years ago and the Liberals shortly thereafter. We need to make this more understandable to the general public. Once everyone has recovered from the disappointment of last night’s vote we can return to the bigger picture.

    411. Wull says:

      Well said Marian although, realistically, I can’t see the SNP dissolving itself into something else. That might be regrettable, but unavoidable … The notion of a Federal Alliance, including different groupings, should be workable, however.
      Those who voted Yes were disparate in their aspirations and objectives. In terms of ‘right’ and ‘left’ it was not one single unified movement. That diversity has to be respected, and factored in. What can be achieved is a basic agreement on such matters as fiscal autonomy, self-determination in terms of all home affairs matters (everything except defence and foreign policy?) etc. Including recognition that Scotland is a distinct nation within the union and an end to the Scottish parliament depending on Westminster for its power.
      Gordon Brown kept insisting on this point during the campaign (now we have to hold him and his friends to it). That is, that the Scottish parliament exists by right, and cannot be abolished by Westminster. Not a devolved assembly, but a national parliament.
      But that means it needs full powers.

    412. Roughian says:

      We have hardly any NOs in our circle of friends and family.
      But as of now when ever I meet a No I will be saying ” it’s over to you. You made the choice for change from within the UK. Make it happen and make it happen soon.”

    413. Nova Scotia says:

      Still don’t believe this. Been awake most of the night, now stuck at work for whole weekend. The place is very subdued – noone has mentioned the referendum at all.

      I feel angry – angry for the opportunity lost, lost for over 1.5 million people – the true Scots.

      It is going to be difficult, but we all need to keep up some kind of momentum. I agree with many of the ideas above. We must surely kill off SLAB – it was them ‘wot won it’ for BT. When voting in elections in the future we should all think “does this party/candidate support a free and independent Scotland?”.

      We should consider this at local, national and European elections. We must send 50-odd SNP/Green/SSP/WOS(?) MPs to Westmonster next May. They may hold the balance. They could certainly make life difficult for the rest. We must also make sure there is a large number of Independence minded MSPs in Holyrood at all times.

      I will continue to vote SNP. I call on all Yes voters in my constituency to vote SNP so we can remove the sitting SLAB MP – Mister Murphy!

      Our children are looking at us now. We must keep going however hard.

    414. Vronsky says:

      I’m usually a snippy commenter on WoS, but you wore me down, Stu. It gradually dawned on me that you were not the best journalist in this little passage of history, you were the only journalist. OK, maybe you and Craig Murray.

      There are lovely sites like Bella Caledonia and National Collective. Any day of the week you can read two thousand words of wonderful prose – sugar free, gluten free, dairy free, content free. Vegan politics. It was significant (I thought) that the official Yes campaign distanced itself from you: dear god, so much rare steak.

      Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind
      Cannot bear very much reality.

      I’m just writing this because I don’t want you to stop, and I’m making similar communications with other people I’ve met in this campaign because I don’t want them to stop either. For a while we had a single project, a focus. It’s more complicated now, we need to be inventive. By all means be sad for a wee while as is your right, but when you’re done with that, your help is needed.

    415. Now's the Hour says:

      If Wasteminster goes ahead and bans Scottish MPs from voting on English matters, will they ban English MPs from voting on Scottish matters? I mean, they love us so much and will want to do what’s fair.

      My a*se.

    416. Tîm Criced i Gymru says:

      A few reflective thoughts from down here in CYMRU/Wales, the morning after the day before…

      First of all… a MASSIVE DIOLCH(THANK YOU) from the bosom of our hearts to ALBA for showing us all the way – SO PROUD of you – a BRAVE nation, have NO DOUBT of that…. very SAD but hopefully HAPPY for you at one and the same time! The ‘world’ now REALLY knows of you! 1.6 million !!!!! WOW, take a well-earned bow!
      Thanks to WINGS, Newsnet, Bella etc for The Age of Enlightenment, PART II !! Absolutely brilliant and VITAL – PLEASE, for Democracy’s sake, keep going1

      A few technical pointers:
      i) How come 25% of eligible voters in Glaschu didn’t vote? Another 10% extra there would have helped – was it that deliberate ‘gaff’ by Reedbed saying ‘…if you Don’t Know, Don’t Vote” !!!?

      ii) Caught sight of a Tweet early last night saying that the postal votes in Dun Eidean (Edinburgh) may have been 30-70 No. Bearing in mind that the vast majority of those would have been of the more ‘venerable generation’, let’s say, many of them (although I know not all by a long shot) still entrenched in the Union and worried etc… if that translated itself over the 750,000 total postal votes, would have meant, in very general terms, that around 225,000 may have voted Yes; 525,000 NO… If, as it seems likely, that the new, young generation, could have voted at least 60/40 yes at the booths, then a similar breakdown amongst the Postal votes would have made it neck’n neck, so NEXT TIME,WATCH, LOOK and SEE what happens! Exciting times!

      iii) Lastly, I don’t buy the despondency about some SNP areas having voted NO – generally, in those areas there has been a firm vote of at least 40% YES, so if you look at alignment along very loose party lines, when a 1st Past the Post Election occurs, as in 2015, 2016, then with other parties splitting their votes as usual, SNP will go flying in. In fact, I think many SLAB MPs are probably quite concerned about the smell coming from their comfort zones when the time comes…SOON now. They won’t be able to bus hundreds of supporters up from NW Englandshire to do their dirty work.
      Personally, not being a vindictive person, but wanting just rights to prevail, I would want to see a concerted effort to target the LAB Westminster seats of Murphy, Curran, Davidson and Alexander (Douglas, to name the main ‘culprits’, in a show of contempt for their disgraceful part in that smogscreen of a NO campaign – they deserve to be well and truly OUSTED!

      Just think that in the face of the WHOLE of the Westminster machine, the despicable juggernaut of Whitehall and its undermining and virtually the ENTIRE TV, Radio and newspaper media bias(I’m utterly disgusted with the Beeb by now… apart from Huw!)… despite ALL that and more,the grassroots movement of the PEOPLE grew a flourishing flower that has sparked the most refreshing and unquenching thirst for change, truth and freedom that will sow the seeds of that new nation you and we SO DESIRE.
      YOU / WE will rise again… in fact, you have already done so these last few months in magnificent fashion and brought a joy to our hearts and a new spring in our step! You are teaching yourselves and others to WALK TALL and have NO FEAR!
      CONGRATULATIONS for shaking the establishment to its core – and I believe, as from 1979-1997 and again from 2007-2011, the aftershocks will reverberate and bring on another
      seismic change…
      As Dafydd Iwan, our foremost political ballad-singer famously wrote in one of his anthems, remarking how the Romans left us as a nation in 383 and despite everything that has happened to us since…: ‘Er gwaethaf pawb a phopeth, ‘dy ni YMA O HYD!” (“Despite everyone and everything, WE ARE STILL HERE!”).
      Rest now and rise again! Hwyl am y tro / best wishes for the time being, my Celtic cousins!!

    417. Wull says:

      At least, as full as is possible within a federal Britain.

    418. Colin says:

      @Croompenstein

      “Hit the fuckers where it hurts them most”

      Totally agree, no more buying newspapers, cancel the BBC licence fee, don’t use BP garages and move our money from the RBS or any other bank that cow towed to Westminster.

      But if we take it one step further and hit them where it really hurts that would make a bigger impact.
      The no campaign won with lies, duplicity, scare tactics and the denigration of you and me, the Scottish people. Let us start now and turn those same things against the people who used them against us.
      If we stand firm together in defeat as we have over the last few years whilst campaigning, we can change the political future of Scotland forever.
      There will be Scottish elections in 2016 and if we start now we can make a difference in those elections, we can fund posters with the candidates lies emblazoned on them, tie them to every lamppost in their constituency, put them in every wingers window and through every constituents letterbox, fund public meetings, knock on every door and make sure they are exposed for what they are.
      We could support the SNP candidate or the Labour for Independence candidate, or we could have our own independent candidate stand.
      If we expose them for what they are and make sure every person in their constituency’s knows what they have done, their reputations will suffer greatly and their chance of re-election with it.

      We have the people, we have the finance if we all chip in a little but often and we have the time if we act now.

      I for one cannot sit back and let these people get away with what they have done, if we stay together we can make them suffer for what they have done to us.

    419. Vambomarbeleye says:

      There is a election next year. So let’s start now getting yes msp’s elected to those labour seats we know and love so well. We have the feet on the ground and electronic media all ready in place. Let’s stick it to them.
      Don’t’ get mad get even.

    420. jock mc X says:

      Hello to you all,i have been a lurker here for some time now but this is my first post.

      I want to thank Stuart Campbell and all of you who have contributed to this site,it was a magnificent effort.

      I know you are all heart sick right now and some of you
      are in that black black place,i have been there,my first
      ever vote was in 1979,i am still here and i still believe
      in scotland, and i believe more than i ever have in my life that we will win our independence.

      Please do not dismiss me as a bampot,i put up my first snp poster on my window when i was around 12 years old,when i was in secondary school i realised that labour was the real enemy of the working class, long before thatcher or blair…..there has not been a real labour party for a
      long long time.

      Imagine what it was like watching scottish voters putting
      a noose round thier own necks time after time.

      So many of you put in so much of yourselves during this
      campaign and you are hurting today,but we have all come so
      far and learned so much…it must not be waisted,this is
      not over.

      I am a nobody from the southside of glasgow and i say the
      YES movement goes on…I am declaring sept 18th 2014 as
      scotlands independence day,i do not hate anyone who voted no,the majority of them are still sufferring from the great bamboozle,they will get out of it and join us.

      We are many, we are on the right side,i will be looking for leadership to come out of the yes movement to carry us forward,i know we will get there now for sure.

      p.s.I am in my 50’s now,i am giving up the
      fags and going on a diet,i will see
      this job done..

    421. John says:

      Surely now we have to organise ourselves to get rid of the bbc in Scotland after what they did to the campaign.

    422. Hobbit says:

      Snode1965 – thank you, this should have been pointed out a long time ago. That Scotland as a whole has not benefitted from the Union – not during the 20th century – should not block the realisation that parts of Scotland did *very* well out of the union in the 20th century. That is Scotland’s fundamental issue.

      But, as I’ve said before, it was foolish for the hard left to take the visibility they did. If more Orange Order activity would have encouraged many to vote yes, the comments of the hard left were all the middle class needed to come out in their hundred of thousands and vote no. Big own-goal, guys.

    423. Eric D says:

      Okay we’re bitter but that doesn’t help anyone.

      The absolute #1 thing we should do is to publish a guide as to how to deal in legal and practical terms with non payment of the TV license. That will stop them smirking. (Of course, it would help if a parliament somewhere were to decriminalise that!).

      And newspapers? I’ve not bought the herald for years but read it every day online simply by deleting the history and cookies after every 3 articles.

      The rest of the print media? Just stop buying it.

      We should crowdfund a website to set up something called “45-money-savers.scot” for example. Purpose: to assist committed indie supporters to spend their indie (rather than pink!) pounds wisely.

      Which banks and financial services were anti indie?

      Let’s rank them 1 to 5.

      Which supermarkets?

      Which power companies? Which petrol companies? Which retailers? Which telecoms companies?

      Just these few alone take up a huge amount of our weekly expenditure. There will be many more.

      Hit them where it hurts because that’s all they seem to understand.

      Seriously, at the moment I’m trying to find out if the Glenmorangie group (owned by LVMH), took a stance so I can drown my sorrows. Diageo, Grants, the Edrington group, etc could now be off limits.

      It needs refined but I seriously think we could do something with this indie pound idea.

      We’re down but let’s show them be can still kick by unleashing a whirlwind upon them.

      45 percent of people can make their views felt.

      Otherwise, you might as well emigrate.

    424. Gutted. It was BBCLabour what won it.

    425. Calgacus says:

      The bastards rigged the vote, stuffing ballot boxes. They’ve been caught on video.

      This cannot stand. Salmond must demand a revote. We cannot lie down to this corruption.

      No wonder they were all so smug at the start of the count. No wonder Kellner said he was 99% certain it was a no vote.

    426. John H. says:

      I agree with Tony Little at 7.46am.People in other countries have had to fight and suffer, sometimes for decades, to achieve independence.Here it was offered to them on a plate, it was too easy to reject it without too much thought.No effort was needed to get independence, other than putting a cross in a box.It had no value to too many people.

      After a couple of years, maybe after a couple of months, many people who voted no will deeply regret their decision.I hope that by then a strategy will have been worked out to fight back.But before then it seems that much suffering will have to be endured.Perhaps by then they will have realised the true meaning of the word independence.

    427. Macandroid says:

      BigSteveChisholm

      Nothing to stop a private bank being established for the benefit of the whole country, with £1 shares perhaps. I’m sure someone can help if I haven’t got this right.

    428. Hobbit says:

      A poll of 3,000 voters reporting that margin of no to yes – um, Kellner was well within his rights to say that he could be 99 percent certain of a no vote. In the event the actual result and the poll were pretty close.

      OK, for next time. Make it clear to the middle classes that they will benefit from independence as well – the Yes campaign seemed to be dominated by talk of a fairer Scotland, which was all very well, except that the people who would most benefit from a ‘fairer’ Scotland don’t seem to have bothered to get out and vote. Hence the Glasgow turnout, compared with East Dunbartonshire. I mean, not even Aberdeenshire, Alec’s constituency, voted yes!

      Also, take a long hard look at what the yes campaign got wrong – start with Tommy Sheridan’s involvement – and resolve to avoid the same mistakes next time.

    429. dmw42 says:

      I, for one, am not done yet. Not by a long way.

      I’m far more disappointed than I was in ’79, but I’m far, far more determined to right the wrongs.

      Throughout this campaign, wrapped up in our Claim of Rights, we’ve identified a whole host of wrongs, the very core of what we’ve been fighting for. The poor, the sick, the disabled, the elderly, the disenfranchised, they, more than ever need our help and support.

      I will, will you?

      No I’m not done yet, not by a long way.

    430. Colin says:

      @ Eric D

      Have a read at my post a few up from yours. A similar ides, but if we combined the two together we could make us, the people, a powerful political force.

      As you say it needs refining and defining.

      How about a Scottish Free Press based along the lines of Bella’s Closer?

    431. Colin says:

      @ Eric D

      Have a read at my post a few up from yours. A similar idea, but if we combined the two together we could make us, the people, a powerful political force.

      As you say it needs refining and defining.

      How about a Scottish Free Press based along the lines of Bella’s Closer?

    432. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Brown up there with thatcher.

    433. liz says:

      I am devastated and I’m sorry but I have no fight left in me – the bastards have ground me down.

      If I am still here I will vote Labour for Holyrood and SNP for WM.

      Let those Labour ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s, and I will say that now, deal with the cuts and try to explain to their constituents why they are getting poorer.
      Lady Jo LaLa for FM.

      I was at the count last night in East Ren and we heard about 2 fire alarms in Dundee, we were told if there is a fire alarm, leave the ballot papers where they are and leave – we knew that there was going to be a massive problem in Dundee.
      But there will never be an inquiry.

      Also even tho we knew ER was a No -the postal votes I would say on average were 90% no.

      I’m am now leaving this country and whilst I was never a Proud Scot, I am now ashamed to be Scottish.

      Well done to the Rev, Bella, Newsnet etc and all the foot soldiers, but the selfish bastards have got their way and hell mend them when they get means tested to death- it was the liars, the cheats the bullies and the BBC wot done it.

    434. Robert Peffers says:

      Look guys and gals! I’ve been saying this a long time but few seem to have listened or taken it in.The problem is not The Tory, Labour or LibDem parties, per se. It is quite simply that when Labour decided to give the United Kingdom devolution they had their usual ulterior motive and the United Kingdom’s voters did not notice it. I, and a few others did but couldn’t get most folks to listen.Labour devolved things in dribs & drabs and did not do so on a United Kingdom wide basis for a very good reason. They wanted to fool us all.

      Here are a few basic true facts : -The United Kingdom is a bipartite union of only two KINGDOMS. Which is why it is called, They United KINGDOM. Thus the Labour Party should have devolved powers to both equally sovereign partner Kingdom and allowed the three country Kingdom of England to choose to devolve the English Kingdom’s powers to the three English countries that signed up for the union in 1707. The sneaky thing they did was to devolve powers to the four United Kingdom’s countries but in an unequal manner of powers devolved. Worse still they retained Westminster as the country of England’s de facto parliament. Thus they sneakily changed the United Kingdom from a union of two equally sovereign kingoms to a union of four unequal countries but retaining Westminster as both the United Kingdom Parliament and as the parliament of the Country of England.

      Remember Labour were in power and their local country members, then as now, did as Westminster bid them. They only offered the English North East Region the chance of getting English regional parliaments. So they had all 533 English MPs now wearing two hats and the other three countries watching each other in case they got stabbed in the back. So then Labour had the De Facto Parliament of the Country of England devolving Westminster powers to three subservient Country parliaments or Assemblies as the y called them then. It is no accident that at this time the Labour Party were moving rightwards on th political spectrum.

      No accident that Big Bisiness donaers were financing Labour and that the gap between the very rich and the very poor was growing faster than since Victorian times. Neither was it accidental that the Labour hirarchy were schoolmates of the Tory Party leaders. They were introducing indirect taxation as fast as they could and, as we all know, this shifts the main burden of tax from the rich to the poor. Indirect tax such as VAT, Road Fuel Duty, Alcohol Duty, Tobacco Duty, Betting tax, Road Tax and ever more items being added to the list of VAT. Then tax cuts for the rich followed.

      So there you have it Labour engineered the transformation of the already unequal bipartite United Kingdom Westminster Parliament into a four country union but retained Westminster as the de facto Parliament of England and did so with the compliance of the Tory and LibDem parties most of them all being products of Eton and Cambridge and mostly also invited members of the Bullingdom Club.

      There is no way for a proper United Kingdom Parliament to function when the divide is on country lines and the Westminster is the de facto parliament of the counrty of England. Yet now most of England is asking for a solution of the West Lothian Question and Wales thinks Scotland is getting too much funding while the Loyalist lot in N. Ireland just Follow, Follow and won’t surrender … to Catholics? What we need now is a UK wide movement to rebalance the United Kingdom properly along country lines and if Westminster is to survive it must be as a federal Parliament and without the Lords.

    435. Marie clark says:

      No I’m not done yet either. To say you have been beaten fair and square is one thing, you just have to accept it and get on. But this electoral fraud is blatant and really what we all feared most.

      I would support a new bank, happy to help if I could. But the BBC are the real ("Tractor" - Ed)s here. Licence now cancelled and papers also.
      Will only shop at Aldi, Lidl or Tesco. The rest can go hang.They can all GTF.

    436. thoughtsofascot says:

      The next fight is to completely wipe out Labour in Glasgow at the next election. To the root and stem.

    437. Snode1965 says:

      I don’t think we can be too scathing of the OAP no voters. After many “debates” with my own “no” voting parents, that compared to the Glasgow slums they grew up in, life is pretty good for them.

    438. BB says:

      I think it’d be wrong and a shame for Rev Stu and others to simply give up on their dream of reform.

      The result wasn’t what we hoped for but appears to have been above board as far as the process. Still, 45% is no mean feat and a large base of people who want independence. Many in the 55% also want change too. That’s a large group of sympathetic people for reform who have identified something wrong with current situation.

      It’ll be a longer road working within the democratic system, but doesn’t mean it is the end of the road.

    439. ailsa craig says:

      Agree with almost everything you said, Tony Little. Only now I can bring myself to speak about it. Like you, I am feeling bitter this morning. Also ashamed, for the second time in my life, of my fellow Scots. Such a chance, without bloodshed, to stand up and take the chance to run our country. Tossed aside for what? Fear over hope? Age over youth? Security [ha!] over risk?

      Like you I am sorry for everyone who did their best. At least there is 45% of us still on board the indy train. It is a fair number – greater than when we started. I really fear that nothing of substance will be done and the No brigade, scared out of their wits, will have shown them the way. They have paved the way for the deceitful liars to bluster and bluff and leave us with nothing gained.

      “Our fellow Scots deserved better.” That’s where I disagree. We deserved better from our fellow Scots. I hope they can look in the mirror when the results of this tossed away chance hits home; Cameron is already at it, and the young, poor, disabled, vulnerable will take the hit while the ‘I’m all right, Jack’ brigade sail onwards and upwards.

      Too upset to say any more. Just want to weep. Good luck, WosS friends!

    440. BigSteveChisholm says:

      If Wings has taught us one thing, it’s the power of DIY.

      Make your own ’45’ or ‘Don’t blame me’ badge, send it to a printer, run off a hundred and give them to your mates. Cheap as chips.

      Or make a PDF, stick it on PDF Archive, spread it far and wide. Sample ’45’ here –

      http://document.li/Prte/

      The file is 50mm x 50mm and scaleable to suit your needs; any printer worth his salt will know what to do with it.

      Heartened to see lots of defiant YES badges in Leith this morning. Bruised, not beaten.

    441. Steven Brown says:

      Stu, along with hundreds of thousands others. I would like to thank you for cutting through all the BS that the MSM have been feeding us for the last 2 years and providing us with the TRUTH behind their stories. The ‘sleight of hand trickery’ that they used in promoting their unionist bias has been truly astounding.

      If you are to ride off into the sunset with wings, leave as your last topic a template letter that every person who has not been blinded by MSM can send to the BBC with their intentions of not paying another penny to the morally corrupt outfit which has so negligently covered this referendum. I for one will be cancelling my direct debit and will also never buy another daily rag. Each and every one (bar The sunday Herald) have let the people of Scotland down!

      Today 1,617,989 yes voters are hurting but the fight should not and CANNOT stop here. Westminster now has a problem in that they have made promises they may not be able to keep, couple that with their upcoming in/out EU referendum and Scotland has to be ready to seize it’s oppurtunity once again.

    442. BigSteveChisholm says:

      Another ’45’ badge. This one doesn’t look like ‘It’s my birthday, 45 today’!

      http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/09/19/the-45-1/

      Short link:http://document.li/g221/

    443. bald eagle says:

      guys have you seen this the count was rigged go to the end and sign the petition

      Staunch says:
      19 September, 2014 at 9:53 am
      http://shaunynews.com/2014/09/19/why-did-1-million-people-not-vote-who-were-registered-video-proof-cheating/

      Draw your own conclusions.

    444. jules says:

      Stu, everyone,

      Please don’t let today’s disappointment defeat you. That’s what the establishment hope will happen. In fact, we’re closer now to independence than we have been for years. Camcleggiband have just signed up to a complete pile of p*sh that will disintegrate in weeks. It was the media wot won it for No, we need every counterbalancing force we have for the months and years to come.

    445. Caledonia says:

      We really need some sort of campaign to get rid of the BBC
      Scum of the earth

    446. Hobbit says:

      Shooting the messenger for the message is folly. But it does beg the question as to why relations with the Beeb weren’t managed better – why the demo outside Pacific Quay?!

    447. fionan says:

      Geoff Huejer, I feel for you, I know exactly what you are going through. I also now face my third winter with no fuel, in fact I will be evicted just as the winter turns cold. I try for jobs in vain, yesterday I travelled 100 miles to an interview – must have been an unlucky day. I also have avoided food banks so far, making a small pot of sauce last a week to flavour what pasta or rice I can scrape up. I have kept going, forcing positive thoughts, with hope of better things to come after a YES vote and today I feel only despair and disbelief. When prescription charges come in, I wont be able to afford treatment for the chronic conditions I have developed in spite of all my efforts to live a healthy life. Yes, I will also try to find the energy to continue this cause that I have supported all my life, I did not remove my badges or flags today. but right now I don’t know where I will find the energy or strength to keep going, and I dread the very real prospect of joining other homeless people sleeping on the beach, in the next few weeks. And that will be only the start of the greater hardships still to come. It hurts so badly that my fellow scots have voted this outcome for us and for so many others who have fallen on hard times. But we must find a way forward, we must try to be strong. You must be very proud to have resisted oblivion in response to the result, so you will find your path forward again, and someday we WILL win.

    448. john king says:

      I have a question
      When Alex Salmond was introduced just now he was introduced as “Mr Alex Salmond”
      why is his title not the right honourable?
      Ministers of state hold the title of rgt hon are they telling us the 1st minister of SCOTLAND is not as important as the ministers for health or education?

    449. Eyesnowopen says:

      I’m new to posting here. Utterly devastated at the result. The closer the vote came, the more passionate I became. I know I’m not alone. The wider issues became clearer, and this defeat will do nothing but temper my resolve to make a difference. I have never been politically active before, but now I am. Thank you for all your insights and efforts. What a marvellous campaign, and even though the battle was lost, the fight goes on, with people like me hoping to make a difference.

    450. Tim Fraser-Granados says:

      My agenda for the short-term and long-term future will be to keep the conversation going about Independence and to push our future FM Nicola Sturgeon for a second Indy referendum in late 2017 when England has voted all of us out of the EU. We also need to vote SNP in the 2015 election. Forget about the promises from Cameron and Brown. Road tax and housing benefit? What the fuck? Not fucking good enough. Not by a long shot. DevoMax will not do either. I want all powers, no ifs and buts. So no more votes for Westminster parties. Also boycott all UK newspapers save the Sunday Herald. Cancel your insurances and accounts with all banks and insurance companies that contributed to the No vote. Cancel your BBC licences immediately and let STV know you won’t tolerate any shit from them either.

      Also, let’s fucking annihilate Scottish Labour in 2016. They were willing team players in the lies and smears. They made us suffer last night and today. Let’s return the punishment in kind in all future council and Scottish elections. Lastly and most importantly: be proud to be Scottish and don’t let anyone take credit from your future achivements and label it British. Scotland is a damn fine country. It’s already a better place because of those of us who did the right thing and were ready to be counted. Let’s rest now for a week and then regroup with renewed energy. Let’s not slacken off now. This is doable. Stay put and help me and others to make Scotland independent. Be good to yourselves this weekend and switch off the telly and stay away from any media. A big warm hug to you all. (PS.:) I’m on Facebook if you want to get in touch and get something going.

    451. Mhara Castello says:

      Eyesnowopen: “I’m new to posting here. Utterly devastated at the result”

      I’ll second that. Whatever happens next – and when the dust settles – we fight on for what’s right and decent for all- not just the self chosen few. Right now, we are where we are (deeply disillusioned) but that doesn’t mean we have to stay there. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. Find it.

    452. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Late getting of the rig. Missed my flight back to Glasgow. The day just keeps getting fucking better and better.

    453. Hobbit says:

      But even in the SNP heartland – think Aberdeenshire East – it still wasn’t possible to get a majority for yes. WTF?

      This suggests that a lot of support for the SNP hasn’t been about independence but has been about the way they were regarded as a competent government. Whether this means they will be able to win the 2016 election is a very good question.

      It would be interesting to see Jim Sillars re-enter the fray. I still think he helped **** up a lot of the yes campaign at a critical moment. Next time, please make it clear to the middle-class voter base that independence is not about socialism; there was no way that the middle classes were going to vote for something like that.

      And next time, get the poor areas of Glasgow to actually get out and vote!

    454. crazycat says:

      Re videos of apparent vote-rigging:

      My computer is playing up so I wasn’t able to see some of the images very clearly, but I think there are reasonable explanations for at least some of them, based on my experience this week of attending postal vote opening sessions and a count. Not every council follows exactly the same procedure.

      The postal ballots were removed from their inner envelopes (after the signed slips were detached and compared with the application forms), opened out and placed face down. They were then counted into bundles of 50, held together with an elastic band. If the ballot box containing a single bundle of votes was one of postal ballots, collected on the day so that there were no more than 50, what is shown in the video is perfectly reasonable.

      At my count, after each ballot box was opened, the votes were tipped out and counted into bundles of 50. Each bundle was recounted by another teller, and counted again if they disagreed. A sheet of paper was tucked under the elastic band, and initialled by the two tellers who had counted the papers, and an overseer (I didn’t catch his exact title). The man with the pen is initializing a bundle he has just counted. He may also be writing a number, if there are fewer than 50 votes in that particular bundle.

      While these bundles were awaiting their final check, they were just piled up on the counting table. They had not yet been sorted into Yes and No, so the vote on the top paper in each bundle varied. We had labelled pigeon holes for the ballots once they had been separated; other areas had tables with labels on the edges. I believe it has been confirmed that the bundle with a Yes on top, on a table marked No, was yet to be sorted.

    455. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Alex should move to the lords and be a thorn in their side.

    456. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Looks like their promises are all ready going down the pan. Cameron saying that there won’t be time for a second reading in the time of this parliament.
      Vote no and get fuck all. They were warned.

    457. Vambomarbeleye says:

      No voters misbehaving in Glasgow. Gets reported now in the media now.
      I would suggest as many readers that feel they can join the snp. Oust as many labour msp as possible.

    458. Hobbit says:

      And this piece, originally from the Independent newspaper, has some more interesting things to say as to how Salmond himself may have got in his own way:

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11328372

    459. Will Podmore says:

      When 55 per cent of a nation do not believe that that they are in a national liberation struggle, maybe it isn’t a national liberation struggle. Maybe the idea that it was a national liberation struggle was just plain wrong. Maybe your real enemy is not Britain but the British capitalist class. Maybe your real enemy is not the Union but capitalism. Maybe now that the majority of the Scottish people have rejected your analysis, you should ask why, rather than just abuse them as dimmer than your perfect selves.

    460. You and My Comb says:

      I don’t think your numbers are accurate. It was 55% of those that voted. While a majority prevailed Yougov provides some interesting analysis for what swayed 25% approx of voters. Clearly it can’t be comfortable to have 45% of the votes cast wishing to leave the United kingdom. It’s particularly a problem because of the indications that the richer parts of the population voted to stay and the poorer members of society voted to go.

      The main issue was to have decisions made in holyrood. I for one await the outcome of the more powers issue with genuine interest. I note Balls statements to the Labour Party and the statement about the Govan yard closing made by BAE. These might have had an impact had they been made earlier.

      There is a strong feeling among the people I have campaigned with over the past year that labour have failed to represent the population that were their original supporters. Even during the debate, the language used by Lamont et al was that of the university politics society rather than that of the man in the street.

      So for me I have spent a long time imagining a better scotland and it doesn’t look much like the one that i live in now. That means I will commit to help bring that about. Is that a ‘national liberation struggle’?

      The enemy is the Union parties that gave trotted out platitudes and lied to the population at large. My mother in law was one of the pensioners frightened by labour lying to her about her pension and the nhs. I know a family that were alarmed by Browns statements about cross border health care despite the statement from Great Ormond Street Hospital. I have also talked to polish and Belgian workers who had been worried because they had been told they would lose their jobs and been forced to return home in the event of a yes vote.

      We lost the vote but we have been part of a significant grassroots movement that isn’t prepared to accept the old order or even the old categorisation of right and left. The aim was, and still is, a fairer society. In the past we got used to our lords and masters making decisions for us.

      I am particularly interested in the failure to discuss foreign policy and defence as key components of manifestos. The way the UK Parliament works is that it gives itself the authority to decide on these things. Hence the killing of foreign people in a hi tec game of space invaders.

      Let’s wait and see what the old order brings to the table. Will we see a federal Britain with an elected upper chamber? I could live with that. Would these discussions be taking place without the referendum and our campaign. I don’t think so. Is it over? I think not until they do what they should have done and put something concrete on the table. That’s when we will know whether the struggle is still on or not.

    461. Cuilean says:

      That which does not kill us, makes us strong.

    462. montfleury says:

      Four years on and it grieves me still. I’m proud that I did my bit and deeply saddened by our failure.

    463. Morgatron says:

      Still raw and painful to read the utter disappointment in those messages. Everything about where we are now are in those messages, outlined perfectly. But here we are 4years later still standing and if anything even more determined to see Scotland an independent nation. Thanks Stu and my fellow wingers , never met one of you but consider yiu my all my friends (apart from Colin & Rock obviously)



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