The Cuckoos Of Kelvin Way
Now, before we start this piece we should probably note that we don’t think anyone’s losing anything by being excluded from Believe In Scotland’s latest money-gathering exercise (folding, please, not clinking!) in Glasgow later this month. We rather suspect most folk can manage fine without spending a Saturday afternoon listening to tedious speeches from Pat Kane, Ross Greer and Iona Fyfe.
But this is still disturbing:
Because for a party which pretty much never mentions Scottish independence, which conspicuously removed the word “INDEPENDENCE” from their conference banner last week, and which stated just days ago that independence wouldn’t be any sort of red line preventing them doing a coalition deal with Scottish Labour, to be able to effectively veto the participation of ACTUAL independence parties from (ostensibly) independence rallies is a strange state of affairs indeed.
Wings has always held to the belief – in life generally, not just politics – that if you ever find yourself in a situation where A is saying they won’t attend an event if B is invited, for any reason at all, then on principle you always tell A to get stuffed. Such people are narcissistic, controlling manipulators and are toxic to any group sooner or later.
But it seems particularly insidious when the people laying down ultimatums are people who are manifestly not even very interested in the goals of the group. It’s seemingly not enough that the Greens have already successfully alienated huge swathes of the Yes movement, including significant sections of the SNP.
(To say nothing of the electorate, increasingly weary of being antagonised by a whole string of massively unpopular Greens policies from the Deposit Return Scheme to Highly Protected Marine Areas to banning gas boilers and woodburning stoves and frankly more than we can even be bothered to list.)
It now seems that Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater’s party of groomers, misogynists, nappy fetishists and actual rapists are now determined to stop any other independence voices being heard, albeit only by the sort of gullible saps willing to turn out to line Gordon Macintyre-Kemp’s pay packet with money which will vanish into the murky, impenetrable depths of Believe In Scotland’s accounts.
And we do wonder how long it’s going to take for it to dawn on that diminishing band of dum-dums that the Scottish Greens care only about the Scottish Greens, and will dump indy in a heartbeat if there’s a chance it’ll keep them in ministerial salaries.
But the truth is even grimmer than that. The Scottish Greens appear hellbent not just on abandoning the fight for independence, but on actively sabotaging it, and they’re scarcely bothering to hide it.
Like, it’s SO obvious that even Neil Mackay can see it now.
Of course, we don’t think anyone interested in independence should vote SNP at the next election either, but coming from their coalition partners, who have absolutely zero prospects of winning seats of their own but might easily hand dozens of tight contests to Labour and/or the Tories by running, that’s surely a backstabbing visible even to the sort of complete numbskulls still defending Humza Yousaf’s party, and who in the same breath will viciously castigate Alba for “splitting the indy vote”.
The Greens have laid their eggs in the SNP’s nest for now, but they’ll be off as soon as they see a better destination. We can only hope that by the time they’re gone, there’ll still be something left to start rebuilding from.
Wasn’t the Bute House deal meant to fasttrack independence?
The idea of Harvie or Slater laying an egg is horrendous.
Mind you, it’s probably some form of ‘philia’ they would defend to the death.
It’s not a new thing with the Greens.
When we started organising cross party, cross group cooperation early in the Referendum campaign, we contacted as many different people as possible.
The local Greens were the only people who never responded, to our messages.
I remember being puzzled by this, but never got any reasons for why they didn’t communicate. We even had green Yes badges, green stickers, and included their logo on leaflets. But I’m quite certain they never got involved in joint campaigning as a group. There were 1 or 2 individual Green supporters who did join in.
“It now seems that Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater’s party of groomers, misogynists, nappy fetishists and actual rapists are now determined to stop any other independence voices being heard, albeit only by the sort of gullible saps willing to turn out to line Gordon Macintyre-Kemp’s pay packet with money which will vanish into the murky, impenetrable depths of Believe In Scotland’s accounts.”
Bloody brilliant I couldn’t have put it better myself, yes the Greens will jump into bed with ANY political party in Scotland if it means they keep their jobs.
Like the SNP we need to get the Greens out of office at every turn, both parties don’t give a monkeys about Scots or independence.
Vote ISP or Alba.
Haha. The Alba Party. Not invited because they believe in Independence.
This is the SNP that want to shut down every Scottish tourist information office. So that we are the only country in the World that hasn’t got a tourist information office. Or a general post office to send postcards. They’ll turn the Royal Mile into an Islamic mile. And give houses to the immigrants.
Meanwhile the Harry Potter train could be forced to shut down, because the SNP think that adults are children and could jump out the moving train.
The SNP are disgrace to Scotland. Humza has sank in the polls yet again since the Hate Crime Bill.
I won’t be attending their shitfest. Fuck them!
I will back any amount of money that the Scottish Greens will not get a single MP in the forthcoming General Election even though they have a record amount of candidates. So about it Patrick Harvie. Lorna Slater and Ross Greer. A ten grand bet on no Scottish Greens elected in the forthcoming General Election.
Someone should turn up to the rally with a copy of the CASS report.
Tell Big Bird and sexual deviant – Patrick Harvie – that we want self determination (Independence) not self Identification (child mutilation).
Believe in Scotland. The Independence industry.
So unimpressed but so in awe
Such a saint but such a whore
So self aware, so full of shit
So indecisive, so adamant
I’m contemplating thinking about thinking
It’s so frustrated just get another drink in
Watch me come undone!
The Greens have implanted their embryo in the chest cavity of the SNP. Only a matter of time before it erupts, screeching.
In other news AOUB (but only if you support causes A,B and X) has gone into a decaying orbit around planet Purity Spiral 2024.
I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
Throw the CASS report. Gender Self ID. The Hate Crime Bill. And Conversion Therapy Bill.
Get the rotten tomatoes and eggs at the ready. To throw at the Scottish Greens.
I won’t be going. I’d rather shit in my own hands and clap than listen to Patrick Harvie.
I’ll never vote SNP again. I want them liquidated and a distant memory from a by-gone era!
MI5 can’t believe its luck.
So many exceptionally useful idiots in a nation.
And so many passive onlookers too.
Most unfortunately the D’Hondt closed list voting system makes it very possible that Mr Harvie, Ms Slater and others will succeed in remaining in Holyrood on their List seats.
Curiously after reading about the exclusion of ALBA from the march I happened to send this letter to Pensioners For Independence last night forgive the length of my ramblings but as a pensioner myself I thought the organisation was making a mistake aligning with GMK
As a committed and dedicated lifelong independence supporter aged 73 I am disgusted and dismayed that Pensioners For Independence have seen fit to align themselves to the snp, BIS and the green party who have removed all signs relating to independence from their Scottish Greens Spring Conference 2024 poster, they have also indicated their willingness to work with the anti independence labour party in Scotland without any reservations or restrictions , so much for green independence dedication
To advertise Humza Useless as a speaker for independence is an insult to genuine independence supporters , he and his predecessor the betrayer Nicola Sturgeon have done more to frustrate and derail the independence process than even the unionists in Scotland and WM , they have FORCED the reviled GRA and HCA on Scots despite overwhelming opposition to those policies , they had NO MANDATE from the electorate to introduce those policies and yet the mandates they were given to secure independence for Scotland lie in a sealed coffin unused and ignored
Nicola Sturgeon in her desperation to undermine the fight for independence through a plebiscite election deliberately and maliciously engaged the English supreme court to judge whether HR had the ability and right to hold a referendum (what did she expect the outcome would be) as if to ensure complete defeat she further ensured that the case would be presented by her English Lord Advocate whose presentational skills were abysmal
You advocate ending pensioner poverty in Scotland which I am fully on board with but THAT will ONLY be accomplished by Scotland’s independence where our abundant resources are used to benefit and provide for the people of Scotland
Sturgeon PROMISED a national energy company and reneged on it , whilst families and PENSIONERS were suffering unaffordable excessive prices by profiteering greed driven energy companies , the same energy companies that Sturgeon gifted our shoreline resources to in a reverse priced auction that had a ceiling price , similar energy auctions have been held elsewhere where the same size of shoreline parcel has been sold for billions of pounds more
No one in their right mind puts a ceiling price on ANY valuable item
Hopefully the Branchform investigation will expose and prosecute the fraudsters behind the theft of the RINGFENCED independence fund and we can see who abused and misappropriated donations made by genuine independence supporters many of them pensioners who donated dream money from their meagre funds
My wife and I have attended many indy marches organised by AUOB and HOF and we have enjoyed the camaraderie and the friendliness of our fellow indy supporters and speakers, our daughter even came up from London to participate in the Glasgow and Edinburgh AUOB marches but we will not be attending this march because apart from PFI we do not believe the organiser and certain speakers are genuine independence supporters
FYI … to those interested in regaining Scotland’s independence, and joining all those from all over Scotland already participating:
I will be taking blank ‘Declaration of a Sovereign Scot’ forms to the Believe in Scotland/Yes2 rally next Saturday (20/04) and will also be at the AUOB rally (04-05), both in Glasgow. That will continue to fulfil my original committment to attend all rallies, but I am also already embarked on visits to other places in Scotland – completely separate from and outwith rallies – and will post – in advance – where and when these are to happen.
The Declaration initiative is designed so that future generations can learn of the ACTIONS we took to regain Scotland’s independence. It is an invitation to add your signature to all those already obtained, and now lodged for the world to know at the United Nations in New York. I hope to meet you at both rallies.
*******************************
The Declaration of an individual Sovereign Scot
its purpose – to regain the independence of Scotland.
******************************************
Three extracts from the Declaration:
Exercising my Claim Of Right as a Sovereign Scot, I declare:
I do not consent to the terms of, nor the continuation of, the Treaty of Union established through the Acts of Union in 1707.
I do not consent to the terms of, nor the continuation of, the Scotland Act 1998, and all subsequent relevant Acts of like nature and purpose.
I recognise the sole democratic legitimacy of the Scottish Parliament, and assert its primacy and permanence to act singularly on behalf of the Sovereign Scots whose votes alone establish and maintain its existence.
#TransAirSourcedHeatPumpsAreAirSourcedHeatPumps
My brave and stunning (and mental) woodburning stove has just exclaimed this “fact”.
TBH someone needs to burn all the felled trees the fucking beavers are gnawing to death around my way.
The Greens are a parasitical party of extremists willing to change hosts to further theirown interests.
They know that no matter how extreme or incompitent they get, due to the Scottish parliamentary voting system they are almost impossible to eradicate and will hold whoever they can to ransom.
They are a very dangerous entity.
Scottish Greens care only about the Scottish Greens, and will dump indy in a heartbeat if there’s a chance it’ll keep them in ministerial salaries.
True, The same can be said for the SNP.
Similarly, Labour would welcome a coalition with the Greens, if that meant they could gain power. And Labour would dump any of its policies the Greens objected to, in order to gain those ministerial salaries.
I neglected to include the mechanism of the £10000 bet offer with the Scottish Greens. A £250 fee each for an Independent holder of funds prior to the General Election. Say a bank that is mutually agreeable. Personally I think they will lose more on their deposits. A genuine offer. £10k waiting on the Scottish Greens to collect. Harvie. Slater and Greer put the money up. We are fed up of your pish.
Scottish Greens care only about the Scottish Greens, and will dump indy in a heartbeat if there’s a chance it’ll keep them in ministerial salaries.
True, The same can be said for the SNP.
Similarly, Labour would welcome a coalition with the Greens, if that meant they could gain power. And Labour would dump any of its policies the Greens objected to, in order to gain those ministerial salaries.
That’s what politicians do. They’ve been doing it for at least the last 2,000 years, and it’s silly to expect today’s politicians to act any other way.
@ Dan 5.03pm I watched the PRISM just now and the tech guy checked out the research for wood burning, apparently burning wood in a wood burner and leaving wood to rot have the same level of carbon emission, so surprise surprise the greens are WRONG AGAIN, I am taken aback
A fitting example of Salami Politics.
@TURABDIN
It isn’t ‘luck’ on the part of MI5 – they have worked diligently for this outcome. They learned a painful lesson from the Kim Philby case. Perhaps they’ve turned it into a ‘positive’.
The SNP aren’t stupid they went into the SNP/Green agreement with open arms to Stop the Alba Party and moving on the constitutional question.
The SNP had a army of followers after 2014 and today they have more than 52% of population wanting to leave the UK, and whats the only think that matters to the SNP keeping the greens on side and stopping Indyref2.
Ten years of wasted opportunities and now it looks like at some point in the coming years the English government will take Scotland to war along side America.
I really don’t care about the greens standing I hope the do and I hope along with other Indy parties and Independents these SNP MPs in Westminster gets whats coming.
I wouldn’t want Scotland to be Independent with Humza Yousaf in charge, my god what a disaster it would be for Scotland, thank god were not Independent now. How would Scotland look to the rest of the world, other countries would be saying no wonder those who voting to remain within the UK they could see what was going to happen.
The best thing for Scotland is for the SNP, who is public enemy number 1 to be totally wiped out at the next election, finger crossed.
Nothing that shower of political carpet-baggers does surprises me.
They only jumped on the Indy bandwagon because they thought the SNP was home to more ‘radical’ voters than the Yoon alternatives, so might be fertile ground to snatch up a few stray votes/members/candidates.
They’re not so much ‘Green’ as ‘Woke’; obsessed with reconstructing societal norms into a bizarre Kafkaesque fantasy world where anything and everything goes, and anyone who dares take issue with their outlandish crap is branded ?-ist, ?-phobic, deplatformed, blacklisted, dismissed from their employment and ultimately prosecuted and jailed for supposed hate-crimes. If he were alive, Orwell would have them in court for breach of copyright.
Frankly, the sooner they and the cross-contaminated SNP bed-buddies disappear up their collective arseholes the better!
The headline should read – The Quislings of Kelvin Way. The Greens showing their true colours and it isn’t Green. They never fooled me for a second. The Yoon Wokes have come out of the Yoon Woke closet finally.
I don’t know if burning wood and leaving it to rot has the same CO2 emissions, but leaving wood to rot produces methane which is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2.
when you look at the greens you wonder HTAF could such a gang ever get anywhere near govt
the dictatorship of the minority, the tail wags the dog.
the greens are the true ideologues, the SNP are machine politicians, with no convictions (apart from the criminal), the true believers are terrifying.
PR systems are uniquely shit and designed to produce either – a stodge, horse trading, which suits the status quo, or, at times, a small determined minority holding the balance of power
go back to FPTP on much smaller constituences, half the size or less; allow a “none of the above” option – if NOTA wins, then the job goes to a constituent chosen at random, subject to criminal record checks.
more quality, local, independents should be encouraged to step up
make the campaign manifesto a legally binding contract – no throwing it out the window once elected
we need an “independence only, indy one two three and last” only party, which will STFU about anything else, and silences anyone who starts talking about their genitals, or social agendas
if all else fails, electing MSPs drawn randomly from the population would be a better system than we have now – consider it a form of jury duty
break the conveyor belt of idiot/grifters which catapults really inexperienced people into high office – student wankery, gofer for some politician, selection for a seat, someone gets pumped for a sexual/financial scandal and … bang! … you are the minister for health/education/finance
and with such reforms – rumpel-foreskin and long tall lorna would get nuthing, forever
The picture in Stuarts article of Slater, next to presenter Martin Geissler, now that’s the face of a window-licker if ever there was one.
What a mess, what a God awful mess these third rate chancers and social engineers have done to independence.
Politicians; I despair! They are as bad as each other.
Well that’s me saved the bus fare into Glasgow.
Oh yes it was free!! still I will save the time and effort.
I am afraid we really do need to kill off the SNP and start again. These Sturgeon muppets are a bunch of real dunderheeds and have zero ability to strategise.
The fail to understand they need to pull the Indy movement together and convert 10% of the soft no voters.
Sturgeon and her continuity crowd have really killed the movement.
The greens could do us and the planet a favour, humans exhale about 2.5 pounds of Co2 every day. So do us all a favour. Net zero no Co2 we are all dead.
@Ruby, Encaustic Tile Making sounds like Caustic Window era Aphex Twin.
twathater
Ignored says:
14 April, 2024 at 5:22 pm
@ Dan 5.03pm I watched the PRISM just now and the tech guy checked out the research for wood burning, apparently burning wood in a wood burner and leaving wood to rot have the same level of carbon emission, so surprise surprise the greens are WRONG AGAIN, I am taken aback…
It’s worse than that.
Traditional Scottish stone properties have suffered decades of catastrophic mismanagement which has compounded building defects and robbed our society of innumerable fine and well built stone properties, which were demolished when they absolutely didn’t have to be.
Ignorance abounds when it comes to stone built property, and architects and their ilk should hang their heads in shame.
A traditional stone wall is not 550-600mm thick for structural reasons, but that is the mass and volume of construction required to accommodate and manage the ingress of external precipitation and egress of internal moisture and condensation.
Your wall is is designed to be porous; to soak up rainfall but maintain a gradient / pressure to continually encourage moisture to migrate from inside to outside, towards the exterior surfaces where it transpires away into the ether. It does it day and night, 24-7, 365 days a year, and does it for centuries with absolutely minimal maintenance.
Clatter a cement render or film forming paint on the outside, and your porous wall isn’t porous anymore and you now trap the internal condensation the building is designed to expel. Congratulations! Your “organic” living wallpaper is on its way.
Batter up insulation on the interior, and you “rob” the wall of the core temperature it requires to “fuel” this expulsion of moisture and render your wall vulnerable to dampness because you’ve brought the dew point much closer to the interior. Raise the moisture content of your timbers and plasters to 14%, (8-12% being the norm), and you’re in the zone for fungus and moulds to begin, and for the mycelium of dry rot to “investigate” your property looking for a home in your home.
Your best friend in this battle against moulds / allergens / pathogens / condensation? Ventilation of course. Air changes and superior air quality. That big lum in your living room which for all its best endeavours, still vents less hot air than the arseholes in Holyrood.
Oh, I know, there are legit problems, and some of them lack a ready solution, but the modern “variable” agitating hard times for old property ISN’T the sudden failure of these redoubtable constructions, but the now punitive extortion and cost of energy, the lie we were told about cheap Hyrdo electric energy for all, and the insufferable ignorance of building “professionals” who don’t know their trade.
If only we had a National Energy Company to harness our renewables eh?
So chimneys are now banned in the land where virtually every traditional room in the nation boasts a fireplace as an essential component of its stability and longevity, and where 20% of us live with extreme fuel poverty must now be denied access to carbon neutral wood. What fkg genius thought that up?
Scotland is the laughing stock of the planet once again, and all because we round up our nation’s best imbeciles and call them a government. You’d think there’s clue when they don’t know the biological difference between their mummy and daddy, but we plough on regardless and elect them. Wha’s like us, eh?
@ twathater
My burning the beaver felled trees in my TransAirSourcedHeatPump also stops the large chunks of lumber getting washed out to sea and becoming shipping hazards.
One also has to factor in the environmental impact not just of the furry cretins indiscriminately felling mature trees and loss of sequestered carbon in those living trees, but of all the fossil fuel powered machinery and industries that are required to clean up and rectify all the damage done by the great rewilders’ antics of unofficially releasing beavers in an area it was known they would not be suitable in.
Ignoring the loss of thousands of mature tree for a moment to note the local railway track required extensive engineering works to rectify structural integrity after beavers undermined the embankment.
I hear they have also started creating an issue at an old landfill site as their burrowing has started to expose old legacy waste which is now getting washed away by the river.
It does also look like they played a significant part in my local broken sewer issue due to them burrowing under the supporting foundations of the village sewer pipe, and one of the trees they felled then getting washed into the pipe during floods causing it to break with all the resultant months of pollution that has caused.
There will inevitably be a sewerage charge increase on our council tax to cover rectification works, costs which are already probably way over 100 grand, and that is before any actually engineering work has started to fix the problem, which is still weeks away from happening due to continued high river level. So could easily be around 1/4 million quid, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was nearer half a million having seen the ridiculous bureaucratic process of multiple different companies involved in rectification works.
Why should taxpayers have to pick up the pieces and pay the very high price for the damage caused by the actions of some landowner. The sewer pipe has been stable for the near 50 years I’ve fished in the water it crosses, so identifying what factors changed in the past year or so that caused it to fail really isn’t rocket science.
@ Karen 6.12pm TBQH Karen I don’t know what the chemical compositions amount to I was just letting Dan know what BB’S tech guy had said in relation to the greens outlawing new wood burners,I am quite happy with my 3 year old combination boiler we don’t all have wee Paddies £70,000 salary, expenses and pension pot, if ever there was a waste of money that is the perfect example
The Alba Party is not for Scottish independence, either.
We all know that if the miniscule Alba Party ever got power, and somehow Scotland became “independent,” it would join the EU. Being under the orders of Brussels/Strasbourg, being dictated to by Belgium and Malta, is hardly independence. It’s as if Robert the Bruce, after Bannockburn, agreed to be ruled by the Holy Roman Emperor.
This isn’t news. Ash Regan, Alba’s sole MSP, repeatedly endorsed joining the EU (under every name she’s gone by over the years). Ditto Alex Salmond. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38808795 The Alba Party website says they’ll do EFTA first, then negotiate to join.
Commenters here rightly wonder if the SNP has traded independence for ministerial salaries. But the SNP also wants to join the EU.
The SNP (and any party that wants to join the EU) is NOT for actual Scottish independence.
My post @ 4.58 relates to an ACTION that many are now supporting to regain Scotland’s independence. What then? … Here is a proposal that addresses many of the issues raised in this thread – but it requires that independence – thus the Declaration initiative.
Establish a Second Chamber within the Scottish Parliament – with the ability to scrutinise potential legislation, examine the Ministers who are proposing the legislation, call in experts, and – most importantly for me – call for a Referendum on matters where the Parliament itself has failed to do so, despite evidence of the need for public consultation.
“Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.”
~ Søren Kierkegaard Danish Philosopher.
@Breeks, a local at one of our sea lochs told me that the buildings there were having to be rendered every two years and I assumed this to be due to the concrete cracking. It was pouring with rain at the time and he had decided to stop to randomly inform me of this. Was he feeding me false intelligence?
‘The Cuckoos Of Kelvin Way’ Sounds like a Belle & Sebastian song.
We must never rejoin the EU. If anyone’s ever been to Brussells? It’s a cesspit of African migrants. Thousands of them. The demographics of the city are 70 per cent Muslim. I happened to have been there at Christmas time. And it was chilling. If it weren’t for the statue of baby Jesus, you’d have thought you were in Marakesh!
I’m glad we’re out the EU. We need to stop the boats. Preferably build the great wall of Scotland. No more plantations of GAZA on the Clyde.
Scotland First.
Heat Pumps
Lets keep this simple, a couple of reasons we want to get rid of gas boilers, low gas supplies (just ask any of the locals at the French owned Shetland Gas Plant – Total) and more importantly its bad for the environment.
So why don’t we all just change to a Heat Pump ?
I wont go into all the details but for clarity, Yes we do have the technology to do it, in spite of the Scottish weather, 4 seasons in one day n all that.
The main reason is the filthy lucre, ignoring the installation costs (they can vary from a single house to upscaling a whole street,city,country) but just to focus on the running costs.
Heat pumps need electricity to run, electricity is more expensive to use than gas, this is known as the “Spark Gap”.
Typically the ratio is 3:1 but more recently was 6:1, that is correct electricity costs 3 to 6 times more to use than gas.
This is another reason we need independence, to remove the “Spark Gap” and make fuel poverty a thing of the past.
(The disgust level, I view those know this, but still sit on their hands and do nothing increases in proportion to their sum, two of them are four times more disgusting than one,three nine times…..)
Never mind what the BBC/MSN experts forecasters, with their boiled shirts of respectability, forecast, for the next general election, in Scotland there will be a political revolution.
The “Spark Gap”Revolution.
So a £10000 bet goes ignored by the Scottish Green Party. We will give it 48 hours. It would cost me less to stand against Ross Greer. A failed University student that has promoted anti family legislation.
David Hannah says: at 7:41 pm
“We must never rejoin the EU. If anyone’s ever been to Brussells? It’s a cesspit of African migrants. Thousands of them. The demographics of the city are 70 per cent Muslim. I happened to have been there at Christmas time. And it was chilling. If it weren’t for the statue of baby Jesus, you’d have thought you were in Marakesh!”
—————————-
Bollox.
I’ve been to Brussels and Belgium quite often over the last 20-30 years and I’m afraid your ranting and raving at anything to do with the EU, Blacks, migrants from anywhere and god knows what else, just shows you up as mostly clueless to what you’re talking about.
Frankfurt where I live has a 25 % percentage of the population as foreign/non German, a lot of whom are there because of the European Central Bank and further EU financial institutions as well as many banks and Insurance companies.
We also have loads of Turks as well as other EU nationalities in second or third generation families.
The EU is centred in Brussels and like Frankfurt, has a large majority of white European descent living there. (Including tanned Italiens and Spaniards..!) 🙂
Brussels is a mostly Roman Catholic community of about 40%, Protestants ca. 3%
Islam/Muslim 23% – 25.5%
As for the atheists, well they’re everywhere…..!!
@Campbell Clansman 6.46pm
It’s the Scottish people as a whole you have to convince of your brexiteer wet dream though. All the available evidence shows they remain resolutely and overwhelmingly pro EU. inchoate screeching about EU membership being “pretendy indy” didn’t convince many before, and the % in favour of EU membership has grown since brexit not reduced.
Of course, a week can be a long time in politics, but I doubt you’re going to make significant inroads in the pro-EU sentiment anytime soon. Being pro-EU is likely to be more of an asset than before given the fact yoon paties in the UK are never going to embrace a “Rejoin” campaign.
Those advocating against EU membership are – like those against NATO membership – very much in the minority and will never provide a basis for achieving indy. In the end, they’ll whine a lot and come in to line with the majority and sit on the sidelines doing their Wolfie Smith thing while everyone else ignores them.
Sesame Street filmed an episode of Big Bird laying an egg but it was considered so disturbing it wasn’t aired.
I won’t link to it because it really is very disturbing.
“The SNP (and any party that wants to join the EU) is NOT for actual Scottish independence.”
Oh do shush. Is Germany not an independent country? Is France not an independent country?
@Rev Stu 9.35pm
There’s a hard core of the usual suspects in here who share the “EU membership means we wouldn’t really be independent” line with swivel eyed Reform types. It’s pointless trying to reason with them: they insist they’re right, irrespective of requests for actual evidence, polling figures or indeed any reasoned arguments in favour.
It’s the same with opposition to NATO membership, support for Uncle Vlad and his nice bunch of lads, and now fluffing for the islamo-fascist mullahs in Tehran much as they fluffed for Hamas before. They don’t really do context, huh?
Graf Midgehunter:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/brussels-population
“Brussels is home to many immigrants, with approximately 70% of people of foreign origin making up the region’s population. Approximately 32% of residents are of non-Belgian European origin, and 36% are of other backgrounds, mostly Moroccan, Turkish, and Sub-Saharan African. The two largest foreign groups in Brussels are from France and Morocco. This is unlike the rest of Belgium, which is primarily comprised of the Flemish, Walloon and Italian groups.”
It was awful. I don’t want Glasgow turning into that mix. There were areas where I was staying close to the train station where gangs of migrants were loitering outside of shops. I had to get a toothbrush and I didn’t feel safe. I ate in a halal chicken shop and watched the Real Madrid game. Football is a universal language.
We need control of our borders.
Graf Midgehunter:
You can support your multiculturalism in Germany all you like. I live in Glasgow. And I don’t like eating with chopsticks. Not a fan of it. I like a full Scottish fry up. A Scottish pub. and a fish and chip takeaway shop. It’s our way of life. That’s the way I like it!
For the record. I stayed in a hotel in a district of Brussells named – Stalingrad! Don’t get me wrong. I enjoyed a Belgian waffle. But the Christmas markets were the only thing Christian in Brussells. The rest was like middle East. That’s the truth.
Campbell Clansman
Ignored
says:
14 April, 2024 at 6:46 pm
The Alba Party is not for Scottish independence, either.
======================================================================================================================================
Leave yer dick alane Quizzer – Scotland voted to stay in EU in a Referendum that wasn’t rigged with 800,000 plus Postal Votes like the Indy one. Get the fuck over it.
Stu asks: Oh do shush. Is Germany not an independent Country? Is France?
No, they aren’t.
The EU law is, by definition, supreme, overruling their asserted independence.
That’s the whole raison d’etre of the EU.
I suggest you read https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/glossary/primacy-of-eu-law-precedence-supremacy.html which states:
“The principle of the primacy (also referred to as ‘precedence’ or ‘supremacy’) of European Union (EU) law is based on the idea that where a conflict arises between an aspect of EU law and an aspect of law in an EU Member State (national law), EU law will prevail. If this were not the case, Member States could simply allow their national laws to take precedence over primary or secondary EU legislation, and the pursuit of EU policies would become unworkable.
The principle of the primacy of EU law has developed over time by means of the case law (jurisprudence) of the Court of Justice of the European Union.”
See also https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/en/european-industrial-relations-dictionary/supremacy-eu-law or
https://hum.port.ac.uk/europeanstudieshub/learning/module-3-governance-in-a-multi-level-europe/the-supremacy-of-european-law/
You’re not a fully “independent” country if another (supreme) body can overrule any law you have. If that higher body can tax you, make labour laws for you, etc. Which is exactly the point that Scottish “independence” advocates make vis-a-vis Scotland vs. the UK.
Stop pretending otherwise, Stu. Oh do shush.
I’m wondering how Scotland will fare when we get the immigrant numbers up to 25% as the Midge Hunter encourages.
How will Indy fare too.
As for Independence In Europe, it has always meant that the heavy lifting of running an aspirational first-world country and economy can be outsourced to Brussels. It’s the final acceptance of the “too wee, too stupid” trope, by people who spent decades feigning outrage at anybody who said that.
But let’s ignore for the moment that past performance is no guide to the future and ask an awkward question anyway.
It’s over a year now since Indy and Scotland outsourced its leadership position to Humza Yousaf.
How’s that going then? Anybody? Anybody at all?
@Andy Ellis 9:45
It’s wonderfully ironic that as the EU becomes increasingly embroiled in an existentialist conflict that will make it or break it, that should Scotland join now, we will have to fight and pay for the fighting.
It’s ironic too that recognition of that reality has caused me to reconsider my opposition to the EU – I support the fight and would be happy for an Independent Scotland to play its part in a just cause.
The final irony though, is that so many of the previous EU enthusiasts are pro-VP too, yet have still not adjusted their position to accommodate the newly emerging reality.
Believe in Scotland, despite their claim to be non party political, are a front for the SNP. They want to control the YES groups but like the SNP won’t work with the likes of Alba, ISP or Common Weal.
They are duplicating the existing structures and trying to suffocate them.
The SNP thought that AUOB would have bothered and died but no ot continues.
BiS are now prostituting their march to allow a “Palestinian bloc” to march. Nothing against Free Palestine, however the majority of them are not supportive of Scottish Indy. McIntyre Kemp only wants numbers so he can stoke his ego.
Look at the derisory fundraisers he organised, they only just make his low targets. This is an organisation that has plagiarized everything within the YES movement.
Iain More
Get your facts straight. Scotland voted for the U.K. to stay in the EU.
Scotland was never in the EU, the U.K. was. Thus the U.K. had to leave when a UK majority voted to do just that.
It’s a major failure of imagination on the part of the people who negotiated the treaty of accession in the first place. It should have been set up in a way that would allow any permutation of the 4 home nations to stay or leave.
But it wasn’t. Get over it.
“SNP backbenchers warn FM ‘appeasing Greens’ over trans Cass report could stoke rebellion”
Wait. What? They’re actually going to get off their arse this late despite the 10 other fcking brain fart disasters up to now? I don’t believe it. An earthquake couldn’t shift those losers unless there was folded notes involved.
The Greens are no surprise. As someone said above, they’re parasitic & will latch onto the next passing host that has a sniff at winning.
The Greens are all for the Greens but so is the SNP all for the SNP. The salary is all they care about. Period.
The Greens are morons. Imagine pinning yer Trans rights pish to another country’s government. LOL!
They’re not independence supporters & never were. Even during 2014 it was all about what was in it for them & after 2015 landslide they immediately set about sabotaging it by adding further goals to achieve regardless of election results.
I don’t think there’s anything to build on. Political parties are a waste of time. The salary will always matter more. Best to pick another route that bypasses them altogether.
Frank Anderson
Seriously? Palestinians for Indy?
Whom the Gods destroy …
RIP Indy.
Hatey McHateface
I suggest you know facts before spouting absolute bullshit.
Salmond had assurances ALL FOUR NATIONS would be consulted with the result of an *advisory* EU referendum. (Check Hansard) It was *advisory* not legally binding. He advised of placing a lock. ALL FOUR NATIONS had to show a majority to leave. They basically told him not to worry his pretty little head about it.
They bullshitted. The moment the ref was declared Mayhem was off triggering article 50 by majority vote in Westminster. Not FOUR nations vote & certainly not by it’s union partner.
Scotland got fuck all.
NI got to stay.
Wales got Brexshit.
England got Brexshit.
& Devolution didn’t exist when joining the EU. Scotland is an equal partner & yoons were in power. Scotlands vote should have triggered Sturgeons mandate – instead she played along & won’t ever be forgiven for squandering mandates.
Stu
“Oh do shush. Is Germany not an independent country? Is France not an independent country?”
Not really. They’re currently run by the USA & are currently crashing crashing their own economies on the say so of Uncle Sam.
Believe in Scotland.org are having a laugh if you think I will be going to their March and Rally.
Why I nearly lost almost £500 I donated in good faith to be used to fight the IndyRef2.
I was lucky because I got my cash returned from the £600K, however about a week later Humza Yousaf took the decision (Unilaterally ?) to block any more refunds !
The question is, was that legal to do so as some folk had already had money reimbursed, directly to their bank accounts, unfortunately some folk have died since “the woven thro’ the accounts” imaginings !
The fact that some of the cash (£600K) that was donated came from folk who were not SNP members !
So far I have not had an apology, come to that no one else has had either.
Geri
As I posted above, I almost wish an independent Scotland was in the EU.
Then we would be fighting in solidarity with those similar countries on the eastern periphery who are on VP’s list for imperial annexation.
And you would be bumping your gums on here about how we needed to get out of the EU pronto.
And that would be sweet, although not in any way hateful.
IF Scotland were “independent,” and IF they joined the EU (as the SNP and Alba want), Scotland would, based on population, have 15 members in the EU Parliament, out of 705. Scotland would have as many MPs as the similarly sized Slovakia.
Scottish members would thus have LESS of a voice in Brussels than they do in Westminster.
And yet the SNP and Alba wish to cede Scotland’s independence to Brussels!
The ALBA Party policy is to join EFTA:
« Brexit took us out of Europe but EFTA is the best way back in for an independent Scotland.
« It is ALBA’s position that Scotland shall join EFTA immediately after the Scottish Parliament acquires the competence to sign international treaties and the powers to abide by them. This will allow Scotland to gain access to the European Economic Area and effective free trade with the EU, thus mitigating the negative effects of Brexit.
« Scotland lost single market membership which includes the four freedoms; to live or work in any EU country; to sell goods anywhere in the EU; to provide services anywhere in the EU; and the free movement of capital.
« EFTA membership could be negotiated in weeks rather than years and could be negotiated in parallel with independence negotiations with the UK, and would be welcomed by existing EFTA member countries, provided independence is achieved democratically and peacefully. On becoming an EFTA member, Scotland could rejoin the EEA within a few months.
« What is EFTA? The European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is the intergovernmental organisation of Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. » Etc
https://www.albaparty.org/efta_way_back_for_scotland
No need to be in the EU, ya dunce.
Go grab yer jacket. They take mercaneries.
I’ll even pay yer fare.
Then you’ll be on here bumping yer gums it’s full of immigrants.
Btw, yer agitating on a banned topic. You may end up zapped afore ye go..
“Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater’s party of groomers, misogynists, nappy fetishists and actual rapists”-WoS
=============
Stop pulling your punches, Rev. Tell us what you REALLY think of the Greenes:
Alba don’t want.
They want to join EFTA.
The way the EU is behaving I doubt it would get a vote in a referendum. Von Der Liar has been to the EU what Sturgeon has been to the YES movement.
Anyone pinning EU membership to an indyref is a moron. It’s one question. Not two.
Scotlands electorate shall decide her future relationship with the EU. Not politicians, folks on message boards or eejits on rallies.
I also have doubts that Scots, finally free from one 300yr bastard union, would rush headlong straight into another one.
It would also be years away & it would also depend on what was on offer. Again, no eejit can predict until the occasion arises.
Anyone peddling the EU & hitching it to an indyref is deliberately fucking up the vote & is a bad actor as well as kicking indy into the never ever.
Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh
Cheers. I thought that.
Funny how A supposed *founding member* of Alba never mentioned that but still bangs the drum for EU membership.
Well said Geri!
We are not voting for any party in the devolved from Westminster colonising two tier set of legislators over Scotland,
We have with held even registering.
Either one government over all Uk, with one set of laws or….
[ A very genuine Scottish parliament.that is held to account by the people in Scotland, passing genuine Scots laws on serious big issues through referendums to the people ]
Other Countries do this, so can Scotland,
This pretendy government even control the company police in Scotland, “that is not Democracy”
Use your democratic right not to vote for a fake parliament suppressing Scots Using two sets of laws, stopping your freedoms.
We feel strongly enough about this undemocratic devolved government process that we will not particpate as turkeys voting for Christmas,
David Hannah at 9:50 pm
Graf Midgehunter:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/brussels-population
“Brussels is home to many immigrants, with approximately 70% of people of foreign origin making up the region’s population. Approximately 32% of residents are of non-Belgian European origin, and 36% are of other backgrounds, mostly Moroccan, Turkish, and Sub-Saharan African. The two largest foreign groups in Brussels are from France and Morocco. This is unlike the rest of Belgium, which is primarily comprised of the Flemish, Walloon and Italian groups.”
————————————
Brussels is the centre of the EU with 27 member States, nearly all its Parlaments, Councils, Commissions and all the civil servants who run things, the offices of the 27 member States, media/journalists complete with studios etc. from all over the world. International development organisations, trade reps, trade negotiators from Australia to Zimbawe.
Von der Leyen is an immigrant..!
Resident in Brussels and surroundings, they are nearly all immigrants.
Hospitality sector, hotels, Many, many, many thousands of people employed just to run everything.
Not forgetting Belgium/Brussels in its own right as a country.
You’re cobbling together what takes your fancy. This is what your link says:
“Brussels is home to many immigrants, with approximately 70% of people of foreign origin making up the region’s population. Approximately 32% of residents are of non-Belgian European origin, and 36% are of other backgrounds, mostly Moroccan, Turkish, and Sub-Saharan African. The two largest foreign groups in Brussels are from France and Morocco. This is unlike the rest of Belgium, which is primarily comprised of the Flemish, Walloon and Italian groups.
Brussels is predominantly Roman Catholic, with about 40% of inhabitants identifying as Roman Catholic. Because of the large number of immigrants and Brussels’s multicultural makeup, there are a variety of religious communities including Muslims and atheists. Approximately 23% of Brussels inhabitants are of Islamic faith, and 30% identify as atheist.
———————————-
“You can support your multiculturalism in Germany all you like. I live in Glasgow. And I don’t like eating with chopsticks. Not a fan of it. I like a full Scottish fry up. A Scottish pub. and a fish and chip takeaway shop. It’s our way of life. That’s the way I like it!”
You don’t need chopsticks for a curry and a heavy…., but you still can’t beat a Broch mealy puddin. 🙂
The question of whether an independent Scotland should join the EU or not is way too hypothetical even for my imagination. This is not the time to be making new enemies…
Nobody cares what Alba’s policy on Europe is. They could have capitalised on a bunch of things (the handling of the pandemic, the vaccines, the utterly senseless war in the east, the Palestine issue, and others) but for some reason done nothing.
These things represented opportunities to seize valuable media attention and win support but those opportunities are lost now and Alba is lost too. As it stands, Alba doesn’t even reach the minimum threshold required to be considered a distraction.
If you ever want to be totally irrelevant, do nothing.
In a sense, that’s okay. All I care about is bringing down the SNP and I don’t want anything to distract people from that. Nothing in politics is more important.
Remember we all sat up on election nights cheering when Scottish Labour lost seats? This year we will do it again when support for the SNP collapses.
UK General Elections offer nothing for us anyway, the SNP’s 56 seat victory in 2015 proved that, so, we might as well use it to get rid of the slugs.
I’ll vote for any party that helps towards that goal.
100%yes.
Humza Yousaf, the greens, labour lib dems and Tories are exactly the reason Scotland Should be a independent Country,
so they are more directly Answerable to the Scottish people, rather than the internal workings of the devolved from Westminster parliament suppressing Scots with a two tier set of laws
All the parties within that Westminster sub- parliament are there for a reason,
And it is not to help Scotland people attain independence.
Scotland has the right to be independent as a Country the same as England, and the right to self determination,
But two government ruling over Scotland will some preventing that from happening,
Scotland could make a bigger impression and statement by, not voting for any of the colslaw parties clinging like slime to Holyrood parliament.
Graf Midgehunter,
Mmmm Mealy pudding . Nuf said, I am with you,
Anton Decadent
Ignored says:
14 April, 2024 at 7:25 pm
@Breeks, a local at one of our sea lochs told me that the buildings there were having to be rendered every two years and I assumed this to be due to the concrete cracking. It was pouring with rain at the time and he had decided to stop to randomly inform me of this. Was he feeding me false intelligence?
Not enough detail to answer properly, but nothing should need rendered every two years. Something sounds very wrong with that.
You mention concrete, but that’s not a moisture open material like stonemasonry with a Lime mortar. A cement pointing can cause problems too, just like a render.Typically there’s a correlation between the hardness of a mortar and it’s porosity.
If it’s stone you actually mean, and they can’t get a render to stick, it may be the wall is saturated and cannot dry itself out.
It’s not about buoyancy, but for a metaphor it’s like buoyancy, the wall can only adjust itself for neutral buoyancy, a little bit up, a little bit down, but can’t raise itself off the bottom like a submarine. You’d need to get the wall dried out and functional before applying a new render.
Even a rainwater down pipe that’s broken and continually tipping water into the wall can overwhelm a walls capacity to dry out, and it remains saturated, and the green algae which forms is your warning there’s a problem, and if you ignore it, there’s a likelihood of dry rot. Fix the pipe, but then allow time for the wall to dry out.
Salts can be an issue too, but most dramatically where road salt is routinely splashed against a wall and accelerates decay in the stone. It’s typically less dramatic in a coastal atmosphere but problems can occur wherever there are salts.
I’ve never heard of a building requiring a new render every two years. Without being facetious about it, sounds like he’s not doing it right… or what’s very common, just agitating reasons to demolish the place. You won’t fix a problem if there isn’t a will to do it. No offence to or innuendo towards your acquaintance, but a lot of contractors talk a load of nonsense about stone because it’s labour intensive, requires competence they typically don’t have, and the money is in new build garbage, not fixing decades of unsympathetic “maintenance”.
If the so called Greens were serious about property, why aren’t the lobbying for a level playing field with VAT removed from existing buildings or added to new ones. But no, maintaining an existing property is penalised by Government policy and has been for decades. They want new junk built on an industrial scale with a 50 year design life, not traditional built-to last durability and 200 years + faithful service.
All properties, new and old, should be judged on their lifetime cost in use, then the false economy of crappy housing with built in obsolescence is revealed.
And as for EU Membership, people are only focusing on the economics of it. That was never the end, but the means to an end. The focus of the EU was to bind economies in Europe together to encourage progressive interdependency and make war between formerly bitter enemies impractical and unthinkable.
The EU was a spectacular success in that regard, responsible for turning the rubble of WW2 and bitterness of hatred and war into staunch friendship and economic prosperity.
Where did the EU go wrong? At America’s behest, Europe did the fundamentally un-EU absurdity of excluding Russia from normalised relations and the post WW2 / Cold War reconciliation. Suddenly, all the bitterness and Nazi rhetoric from WW2 is oozing from every orifice. Round of applause for the Neo-Liberal Elite eh? Arseholes.
Forgive them Russia. They know not what they do.
The Greens have played the SNP for fools.
With the tail having wagged the donkey till it’s on its knees the parasites are now off to infest the Labour Party.
But oh how different it could have been. Had the million plus second regional votes been given to Alba as opposed to both votes SNP, Alba, an out and out independence party would have secured around 25 to 30 seats instead of the derisory 2 SNP seats at 500,000 votes a pop. This would have given a super majority for independence.
But no, Sturgeon and her team did not want an independence super majority – and instead calculated on losing and tying up with the Greens.
Fergus Ewing was absolutely notable in his view that the Greens were poison. But the deliberate damage was done by Sturgeon.
And now, as planned, the SNP Hollyrood donkey is like the SNP Westminster donkey on its knees.
And we the voters bought this as we too fall to our knees in a resource rich country with collapsing living standards.
Anybody who supports independence needs to understand just what this organisation ‘believe in Scotland’ and the ‘greens’ have done here. They have actively excluded a powerful genuinely pro independence party, to keep the creepy gender-obsessed ‘green’ snakes happy.
Over the past few weeks, the greens have shown themselves for what they are – and what many in the independence movement long suspected – leeches. The greens do not care one jot for independence, they just saw (and see) that as a means to gain power. They said so themselves. Anything for a ministerial salary, eh Patrick?
Not one green MSP has ever been elected by a constituency in Scotland. That is for good reason, their policies are nuts. Student gesture politics, driven by crazy ideologies, and no foundation in fact or science. While the world ignores environmental problems driven by mass profit-driven industry and rogues states on an epic scale, the greens ban wood burning stoves in rural Scotland – which will make f*ck all difference to the problem. Gesture green politics, that is all it is. ‘Look at what we are doing here in Scotland to save the planet, look, look, look’ says Harvie and that Canadian woman. In reality, it makes F*ck all difference to what is a massive global problem. Green nonsense, all of it.
Every single green MSP has only ever been a list MSP.
The green are like political leeches. They are currently sucking the life blood from the independence movement. They have literally eviscerated the core SNP support, with dangerous gender ideology. It is green policies such as the gender nonsense and wood burning bans and gas boiler bans, which will make Humza and the SNP unemployed come the nest Scottish elections.
People in Scotland want independence, not to get told their wee boy is suddenly a ‘girl’ simply because Patrick Harvie says so, or that they cannae burn wood, FFS!
When the SNP get booted out by the Scottish electorate (and rightly so), the greens will simply move on. As the greens point out themselves, independence is NOT a red line for them to support an English unionist government.
As for Gordon Macintyre Kemp, well, following this, he really does have ZERO credibility.
@Hatuey 1.32am
Nobody cares what Alba’s policy on Europe is. They could have capitalised on a bunch of things (the handling of the pandemic, the vaccines, the utterly senseless war in the east, the Palestine issue, and others) but for some reason done nothing.
Utter tosh as usual. Parties who expect people to support them have to have a platform and a raft of policies if they are to expect voters to support them, and people to join and campaign to get them elected. Your raft of suggested wedge issues that Alba ought to be capitalising on would simple serve to ensure Alba continues to languish on a couple of per cent: the modern dat RISE or Independent Socialist Party.
People do care about the EU, and Alba’s suggested policy of quick entry into EFTA and then leaving it up to the Scottish people (who are according to all polling evidence even more heavily pro EU now than they were when they voted againsr brexit) will seem entirely sensible and pragmatic to most reasonable folk.
That explains why it finds little favour amongst the usual carpet biter in here of course.
Similarly the majority of all Scots that will be needed to bring about independence aren’t going to be convinced by a party or movement leading the campaign on supporting Uncle Vlad to destroy Country 404 and extinguish its independence, or be impressed with people who don’t understand the meaning of the word genocide and are happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with the islamo-fascists in Tehran.
If Alba’s only desire was to be a bit player like RISE, a mere footnote in Scotland’s political history sniping from the sidelines, your plan would be entirely sensible.
Unless there’s a “United for Scotland” platform encompassing all parties standing on a plebiscitary platform however, trying to fashion Alba or any other party or movmement as the engine for independence on the basis of extremist wedge issue policies is doomed to failure, just like all the airy-fairy “cunning plans for indy” and calls for Conventions of the Estates to waft us to the sunny uplands because too many lack the balls to put a cross on a ballot paper.
@Hatuey 1.32am
Nobody cares what Alba’s policy on Europe is. They could have capitalised on a bunch of things (the handling of the pandemic, the vaccines, the utterly senseless war in the east, the Palestine issue, and others) but for some reason done nothing.
Utter tosh as usual. Parties who expect people to support them have to have a platform and a raft of policies if they are to expect voters to support them, and people to join and campaign to get them elected. Your raft of suggested wedge issues that Alba ought to be capitalising on would simply serve to ensure it continues to languish on a couple of per cent: the modern day RISE or ISP.
People do care about the EU of course. Alba’s suggested policy of quick entry into EFTA and then leaving it up to the Scottish people (who are according to all polling evidence even more heavily pro EU now than they were when they voted againsr brexit) will seem entirely sensible and pragmatic to most reasonable folk.
That explains why it finds little favour amongst the usual suspects in here of course.
Similarly the majority of all Scots that will be needed to bring about independence aren’t going to be convinced by a party or movement leading the campaign on wedge issues supported by a small minority.
If Alba’s only desire was to be a bit player like RISE, a mere footnote in Scotland’s political history sniping from the sidelines, your plan would be entirely sensible.
Unless there’s a “United for Scotland” platform encompassing all parties standing on a plebiscitary platform however, trying to fashion Alba or any other party or movmement as the engine for independence on the basis of extremist wedge issue policies is doomed to failure.
The same goes for all the airy-fairy “cunning plans for indy” and calls for Conventions of the Estates to waft us to the sunny uplands because too many lack the balls to put a cross on a ballot paper.
Alba either has to replace the SNP altogether and try to appeal to a “broad church” of pro-independence voters, or be one part of a realignment of the whole movement which prioritises the total pro-independence popular vote (not number of seats)in plebiscitary elections. That obviates the need for any pre independence debates on specific policies.
Just as Westminster can drag Scotland into wars, the EU is moving towards similar simple majority voting as opposed to unanimity.
The «Group of Friends on Majority Voting» is intending to make the EU more «streamlined» in terms of decision making, in effect more centralist and authoritarian, more influenceable.
OT but can anyone explain to me while we are watching a country flatten and kill their neighbour and dropping the odd bomb on another neighbours embassy , killing some more folk, why when that neighbour retaliates we are condemning the neighbour and not the perpetrator?
I am puzzled and shamed by the UK government action/inaction.
EU as the rollover pussy cat to US interests but Hungary not playing.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-has-plan-b-if-hungary-vetoes-50-billion-euro-aid-ukraine-2023-11-10/
Independence means being prepared to be a thorn in the flesh in order to maintain it.
@ Hatuey
” Nobody cares what Alba’s policy on Europe is. They could have capitalised on a bunch of things (the handling of the pandemic, the vaccines, the utterly senseless war in the east, the Palestine issue, and others) but for some reason done nothing. ”
Agreed .
I honestly take no pleasure in being critical of ALBA ; I genuinely wish the Party well .
I also wish they could see that the extraordinary times we’re living through currently require extraordinary responses . Their passivity and de facto acceptance of the subjects you refer to – how they were/are being handled , absolutely represent missed opportunities . Though , that said , it also suggests that the Party was/is in agreement with how those subjects were/are being handled . THAT is the deeper problem .
People like Andy Ellis can rail all they like about ” the usual suspects ” , ie anyone who departs from his and what he claims is the Party’s * position/s * – seemingly under the delusion that if they just keep ploughing the same utterly predictable furrow using a slightly , minimally , modified plough it will all magically come together . It won’t .
People , generally , in Scotland big time , are crying-out for something different , they’re sick , and rightly so , of the same types using the same palette to produce uninspiring doodles , promising the Earth as they sink into the mud , selling water from the stream that belongs to all of us .
U.N
E.U
NATO
WHO
WEF
ETC
Does anyone think these entities have acquitted themselves well in recent years , have increased the happiness , security , ACTUAL equality of the people ?
In the end …..what are ALBA offering that hasn’t already been proven to have failed ?
After some investigation, the root cause of last week’s inevitable instalment of Holyrood burach (the ban on wood burning stoves) lies with the Greens, or more specifically, Patrick Harvie (nae surprises there).
The ban on wood burning stoves (WBS) appears to be a “write over” from changes to UK Building Regulations.
This ban was discussed by the Local Government, Planning & Housing Committee on 12th Sept. 2023. In the Committee minutes, “biofuels” refers to WBS.
The Committee Convenor is Green MSP Ariane Burgess (Highlands & Islands). Burgess is a rookie MSP (class of 2021), I can only wonder at the “horse trading” that led to Burgess becoming a Convenor. Nonetheless, Burgess appears to be trying to do a decent job.
Most of the Committees’ time is taken up with interminable discussions on Heat Pumps.
The relevant section on WBS is around page 25 (of 38) of the minutes.
Convenor Burgess proactively raises the apparent ban and argues that there will be a disproportionate impact on rural communities, requesting an assessment for “some kind of exemption”.
At this point Patrick Harvie (Minister for Zero Carbon Buildings … ) interjects issuing irrelevant platitudes and claiming that an exemption is unnecessary due to … something to do with Heat Pumps and Heat Networks.
This entirely misses the key word in Burgess’ introduction; “rural”.
There are no Heat Networks in rural Scotland (nor will there ever be) and Heat Pumps require an electric supply in an environment dependent on fragile, above ground transmission lines which are subject to frequent interruption from storms.
Harvie whitters something about “direct emissions” (of CO2) from WBS as if this is relevant. Well, the required product (heat) is more efficiently delivered (in terms of CO2 emissions) by locally sourced, renewable biofuel than by electricity generated remotely in fossil fuel (or biomass) power stations with the associated losses to generation and transmission. Failed humanities student Harvie is entirely out of his depth.
From start to finish, the entire exchange is rather perfunctory.
From the minutes, it seems no one has the stomach to argue with the insufferably puritanical and sanctimonious Harvie.
I can only speculate on the power dynamics at play where Burgess (beneficiary of her immediate predecessor’s (Andy Wightman) petulant expulsion from the Party) is reluctant to challenge her notoriously thin skinned and vindictive “boss” who has engineered a cast-iron sinecure for himself in 20 years of dubious “service”.
As the Committee failed to raise concerns to initiate a Parliamentary debate, the UK Building Regs. were “written over” without further consideration and months later we are treated to an entirely unnecessary drama.
There appears to be a degree of friction within the Greens. Both Wightman and Burgess would primarily fall under the category of “environmental activists”. Harvie, Chapman, Greer & Slater are identity politics fixated and Central Belt-centric. To the extent that these “Central Belters” concern themselves in environmental matters, they reveal themselves as technically illiterate zealots, role playing to their technically illiterate followers.
The Greens in the Highlands & Islands and South of Scotland should disassociate from their Central Belt colleagues. Their respective constituents are primarily divided not by geography but rather by ideology. Harvie & Co. are dependent on the votes of the rainbow haired Trans activist network they so assiduously pander to.
A simple question indeed Dorothy Devine.
Why indeed we support a country that devastates it’s neighbour killing tens of thousands of innocent women and children and attacks a neighbour country in an embassy wipe out attack.
And support is the word. Our great British troops are on the ground, in the air supporting them and when they then come under a retaliatory attack our military are again in the air on their behalf.
Stopping the drones and missiles was probably a good thing. No lives lost and with the other side having made its point maybe a line has been drawn. I hope so for all of the people of the middle east and beyond sake.
Who is the worst. Who started it. I don’t know. The Israel’s have a healthy regard for slaughter. The Bible, as they oft quote tells them so in 1 Samuel 15:3 –
” Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
But aside of the God saying to attack and not spare man, woman, children, infants and beasts, the modern world could rein in Israel. Put very simply, the Israelis secure about 67% of their weaponry from the USA with more coming from Britain. Stop that and instead of sending US and UK military to fight on behalf of Israel but instead send military to support the peace makers, then you would stop the war.
Israel with the USA and UK as its military lap dogs is hell bent and will cause the recommendation of 1 Samuel 15:3 but it won’t just be Israel’s enemies who get slaughtered in the conflagration. It time therefore to talk.
But maybe an orgy of slaughter is what the world needs. Maybe the UK and US have gone without a slaughter for too long to know what it tastes like. Ditto for others too. But with NATO at Russia’s throat, the US and UK at Iran, Syria and Sudan’s throat and the Russians no doubt somewhere behind, we only need to take on China now.
But do we the great British public care. Of course we, for the most part don’t, a slaughter, even if it is your own, is something to be proud of, something that can be commemorated. And you know what the bible says so.
The millionaire knight of the realm and leader of the Labour party Sir Keir Starmer, his puppet in Scotland the branch manager of BLiS has promised what is not his to deliver, he’s a lying b*stard.
Sarwar like Yousaf will say ANYTHING to win your vote both men are treacherous shits, don’t give the SNP or London Labour in Scotland, aka Scottish Labour your vote.
“Anas Sarwar has promised a Labour government “will deliver the greatest transfer of wealth and power into the hands of working people”
The Scottish Labour leader will stress his party’s plans to strengthen workers’ rights after the election in a speech to the Scottish Trades Union Congress on Monday.”
Writing in the Daily Record news rag the SNP Westminster leader Stephen Flynn “says North Sea revenues should be spent in Scotland”.
No shit sherlock I’m sick to death of shit like this coming from the mouths of SNP MPS and MSPs, these self-serving grifting careerist b*stards know fine well what’s going on, but they don’t give a toss, they just repeat the above to score points and gain votes without actually delivering.
They also know fine well that the only way forward for Scotland is independence, what shower of treacherous b*stards they are.
@Dorothy Devine 8:41
That’s an easy one to answer.
The neighbour you refer to has solemnly sworn before God to wipe Israel and its people from the face of the earth.
If your neighbour ever does that to you, you will be singing from a different hymn sheet.
@Dorothy Devine 8:41
That’s an easy one to answer.
The neighbour you refer to has solemnly sworn before God to wipe its neighbour and its people from the face of the earth.
If your neighbour ever does that to you, you will be singing from a different hymn sheet.
Ellis, you really don’t understand politics.
I never commented on Alba’s EU policy. I said nobody cares what it is.
Before you can convince anybody of anything in this world, you need to get their attention. Alba isn’t getting attention, and consequently nobody cares what its policy is on anything.
AIDA
It just struck me that you as a person who constantly goes on an on about what the public thinks are in a party that about 99% of the public don’t support (according to the opinion polls that you usually attack such importance to).
You really should be ashamed of your party’s performance. And you’re the last person that should be coming in here shouting the odds about what the public or anyone else wants.
Vivian O’Blivian
I am reminded of an infamous period of history when they sent snitches up to the rooftops to report on whose chimneys were smoking, and whose weren’t.
I won’t bother with the detail why, but it strikes me we Scots are moving in the direction of a re-run.
First the Covid snitching, and now the HCA and anonymous reporting. How long before the neighbourhood watch curtain-twitching busybodies are out looking for reeking lums?
@Robert Hughes
Your “senseless war in the east” doesn’t appear to be so senseless to tens of millions of citizens of those eastern EU countries who broadly support it.
With great respect, they know far more about it than you do.
In fact, it’s positively racist for you to claim superior knowledge over the “lived experience” of those peoples and nations in the eye of the storm.
There’s a case to be made for a strongly armed, fiercely defended, neutral Independent Scotland, and we would obviously have to be outside the EU, because the EU has already clarified it’s not going to be neutral.
If our strongly armed, fiercely defended, neutral iScotland existed, we could credibly stay out of the war in the east.
But even then, it would still be deeply offensive and IMO racist to claim that the existentialist fight for survival of other independent nations would be “senseless”.
It is just not credible for the supporters of our own nation, culture, history and independence to mock the people of other nations, cultures, histories and independence who support theirs.
@Breeks, thank you for the reply, appreciated. I had assumed concrete for rendering forgetting that yourself and Dan had spoken of a limestone mix.
It was a beautiful part of our country I was having a short holiday at whilst wishing that I had taken the opportunity of apprenticing in a trade when offered to me by a family member whilst in my teens, instead I am qualified in a subject which will be under serious threat by AI and I was kept out of the tent because I am not a protected class so I am peeing into it via being vocal about the nepotism, cronyism and political favouritism.
I enjoy listening to yourself and Dan etc talk about these things, I admire people who can build and maintain and have the skills to teach. I have younger relatives who want to be influencers and I am trying to tell them to instead look to their parents and grandparents who are grafters with skills which mean they maintain their own properties as well as earn a living.
Mornin’ Dorothy
Judging from what Stu said on the previous thread I don’t think he wants his site used to discuss that topic.
See his post here <a href="https://wingsoverscotland.com/humza-yousaf-is-a-racist/#comment-2841570"
You should be OK Dorothy I think what he means is he doesn’t want the entire BTL hijacked 24/7 by folk wanting to discuss a certain topic. ie Uk***raine hence the banning of that word.
Stu is unhappy because posters couldn’t take a fucking hint about that.
He says he’s added another bunch of terms to the filter this evening.
If I put a subject in the filters, here’s a clue about what that means: I DON’T WANT MY WEBSITE USED FOR DISCUSSION OF THAT TOPIC.
I don’t know for certain that he doesn’t want that topic discussed I am just guessing what the the bunch of new terms might be.
Shame that the rest of us have to pay the price for those who can’t take a fucking hint
I voted against joining the EEC in the original Referendum way back in the 1970s. I didn’t like that vote either. I had to suffer it though.
No matter how you twist it. Scotland voted to stay in the EU. I didn’t like how it voted it but I got over it – Some folk here need to grow the Fuck Up. I have never deluded myself that we actually lived in a Democracy.
I am perfectly happy that we arent in the EU. I guess all those who voted No in 2014 who wanted to stay in the EU got their Craven Yoon arses bitten and are also now swallowing wasps.
Every part of Scotland voted to stay in the EU. Even Tory Yoon voting Moray where I live.
I now see another institution that is owned by gutless incompetent Wokists, that is the EU. But hey ho it seems that the majority of Scots wanted to stay in it. Racist Engerland got what it wanted and now they are screaming to get back in it seems. Some propaganda is hard to overcome it seems.
The Tories will get decimated at next Brit GE and it wont make a blind bit of difference. We will get dragged back into the EU kicking and screaming and the next Indy Referendum will be as rigged as the last one. Loads of Postal Votes again.
At least 5 homes on the street I reside on are holiday homes. Not one of them will be voting SNP or Alba. Scots are now a minority in my home village.The Yoons will Balkanize Scotland to get what they want. That process is well under way.
I fully expect that Tories will have more seats in Scotland after the next farcical election even as they get trashed by the Red Tory Starmer and the Racist Reform Party. We wont get free of the incompetent man hating and women hating Wokists though.
@Robert Hughes 9.13am
If you’re so convinced people are crying out for a step change in “life, the universe and everything” and convinced that all the bodies you list don’t achieve or even necessarily helping to achieve equality….what’s the realistic alternative?
I doubt Alba has any issue with you or others being critical: that’s all part of politics.
If you think there’s an alternative furrow to plough, or a radically different design of plough needed to do it, then it’s incumbent on you and those who agree with you to demonstrate what your alternative is, campaign for it, and convince enough people to ensure it happens.
Good luck with that!
If you want a UN or other international organisation that is fit for purpose, what does it look like? Who pays for it? Or would you be happy for the UN to disappear?
Same goes for the EU, or NATO. None of these large complex organisations are perfect of course, and doubtless we can all come up with lists of things that could make them better, or even replace them, but you’ve got to convince lots of people to go along with your plans.
The UN was born out of a world war: it has often been found wanting in its responses to particular situations. Perhaps current events will see it fracture, perhaps not. Do you think the world would be a better place if it failed? Same goes for the EU or NATO. I have my doubts, even if I often think they are deficient in many ways, mostly because I think the alternatives (or simply not having any of them) would probably be significantly worse.
It’s those who broadly support these organisations that you have to convince if you want them (or the international order as a whole) to change.
To that extent it’s no different to convincing more Scots to support independence. It’s not impossible that you’ll be able to convince them that the only way to do so is to be more radical, to “jump the furrow” as it were and abandon current ways of doing things, but it won’t just happen in a vacuum, they’ll have to be convinced the alternative is realistic and/or that the status quo is so awful that the current system needs to be abandoned.
So far I’m not seeing evidence of either, and it’s certainly not showing in any polling or election results. Who knows, maybe after the Westminster GE we’ll see some movement. I won’t be holding my breath and putting faith in cunning plans though.
The only realistic prospect of advancing independence in the short to medium term remains convincing a majority to support plebiscitary elections as a mandate for independence AND ensuring they vote for pro-independence parties committed to that principle at every subsequent general election.
The SG seem to want to control everything even our marches/protests.
This ‘Believe in Scotland’ is a government controlled march/protest.
Go along if you want to hear more government propaganda and possibly be ordered to cheer or maybe even salute when required.
What has happened to Kelly Given why isn’t she on the list of tedious speakers?
Where is Alistair Heather now?
I saw their march in Edinburgh just last September and everyone looked very unhappy. I got the impression they were all government employees who were ordered to attend the march. It certainly wasn’t a joyous occasion.
The march was led by people from care homes who were told they were going on a wee trip to Edinburgh to see the Royal Mile and have a nice cup of tea at Holyrood.
@ Andy Ellis
No amount of your oh-so-predictable waffle can disguise the fact it amounts to more of the same .
That said – I’m out . Done with blogs , bores & buffoons .
If anyone wants to stay/get in touch – there are some people who comment here I’d like to not lose contact with , here’s my email address
roberth.hughes@hotmail.co.uk
Hasta entonces , adios amigo/as
Link in previous thread didn’t work
Here it is
https://wingsoverscotland.com/humza-yousaf-is-a-racist/#comment-2841570
I’ll try again with the href thingy
Link Here
Link Here
Morning Ruby! Have you found the Neither Wolf Nor Dog yet ?
It could teach us all a great deal!I hope you have and that you have enjoyed the content.
Hyperbole should never be used as an excuse to bomb another country.
Worth a watch,//youtu.be/RkwgnlPRdHg. – I may not have got that right it’s Jon Stewart ,ever on the ball!
Oh no Robert! Don’t go. We need you here hermano.
Who is going to laugh at my jokes and call me ‘un genio de la comedia’
BTW that’s a great compliment coming from ‘el maestro de la comedia’
SQP the bores & buffoons or just use them for inspiration for further ‘comedia’.
Robert – well said.
As for keeping in touch – me too.
If anyone starts an off topic forum let me know, cheers.
There’s a few I’d like to keep checking in with x
This is exactly what happened to various YES groups on Facebook. Fckn agitators & propaganda puppets looking for attention continued to spoil it for everyone else.
Here has go..see if this works.
If so I hope the *usual suspects, moon howlers & nativists & schemies join..
Feel free to join to discuss any indy topics, politics, the shocking price of tatties or two dogs fuuu… Pffft!
https://ayescotland.createaforum.com/
Mornin’ Dorothy
‘Neither Wolf Nor Dog’ still on my list of things to do. Thanks for the recommendation.
Something not quite right about your link. Is this it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkwgnlPRdHg&t=1s
Trying this href thingy again.
Jon Stewart-Solar Eclipse Mania
This one without the quotation marks.
Here is the link to Jon Stewart-Solar Eclipse Mania
Very funny!
Some of the posters mentioned the list system, the only way minority parties can get their foot in the door.
Admirable notion you should say in case the big parties carve up the roast between them & exclude all others.
The problem with the list system is if the minority party puts someone unelectable at the top of the list, whether for crony reasons, bombastic reasons or even 5th column reasons.
They get the first seat, with barely anyone having voted for them personally at all.
The List MEPs should be awarded in order of the highest %age vote across the country for their candidates. That way they have some credibility.
Ruby , that’s the Jon Stewart one – I am hopeless!
The beyond ridicule and beyond saving and not in the slightest Scottish ‘Scottish parliament’ kythit in contemporan Scotlan is long past its sell-by-date an shuid bi thrawed in the midden wi aw the ither mouldy food scraps reluctant-tossed tae us Scots fae oor maister’s table – it’s stinkin’ oot Scotland wi the stench o its dole.
The rottit mauk-rid Scottish parliamentary dish offered up to the Scots for consumption is the artificial-shelf-life-eikit-oot battery caged and raised processed chicken o parliaments – the wretched gaggin’ dry-boak o mankit parliaments.</p
A parliament puffed-up wi the noxious gases o decay thrawed contemptuous at the Scots fir them tae ficht ower in ther hunger-bittin desperation fir some nourishing an wholesome democratic sustenance.
The Scots would be better off without the illusion of democratic representation in what is fraudulently sold to them as a free and fair electoral system.
At least then they’d see the trew face o the cook serving up ther rottit denners – unwashed graspin’ wart-covered hauns an aw.
Aye, it’s doors should close especially after the SC farce.
Scotlands democracy thwarted.
It’s England’s parliament on Scottish soil & should be dismantled & sent back tae think again.
It’s clear, since 2014 & repeated powers stripped, that’s it’ll now only be used by fcking eejits to pass Mickey mouse laws to piss off an entire population.
Salaries better diverted elsewhere.
@Hatuey 10.10am
Ellis, you really don’t understand politics.
I never commented on Alba’s EU policy. I said nobody cares what it is.
I’m not sure I’d accept your judgement of that, or of anything else. You’re the one who posted the comment that nobody cared what Alba’s policy on the EU was: don’t whinge about it when people point out your memory lapses.
Before you can convince anybody of anything in this world, you need to get their attention. Alba isn’t getting attention, and consequently nobody cares what its policy is on anything.
The fact Alba, as a relatively new party, hasn’t made huge progress doesn’t mean nobody cares or pays any attention. It may make progress or it may not. The SNP might change, or it might not. Plenty of people do care quite passionately about issues, even if they aren’t in a position to change them or have any influence on outcomes.
That much ought to be obvious to some of the usual suspects in here in particular given they’re continually punting in favour of wedge issues with next to zero popular support, however popular they are BTL here or in their particular political or acquaintanceship bubble.
Detailed policies probably don’t matter in the grand scheme of things. EU and NATO membership, Monarchy or Republic, Euro or new national currency, low/zero defence spending or NATO target of 2% GDP…all the kinds of things that can be decided AFTER independence is achieved by governments we elect or referendums we hold.
Still and all, many people will want to know what the parties they’re supporting, voting for and possibly even joining and campaigning for actually stand for on such issues. Party differences might not matter much if we have a 2012-14 style “United Scotland” movement to push indy forward. Experience from then shows that people can be prevailed upon to bury the party political hatchet (hopefully not in each other) and have their “eyes on the prize”, as the phrase had it.
I’m doubtful that kind of coalition can be re-established now though. Can you really see a lot of the folks in here campaigning shoulder to shoulder in a common cause?
The prospects of the vast, gaudy “big tent” being re-erected for a future independence campaign seems remote, but even individual parties can and should be able to unite around the concept of a majority of votes in plebiscitary elections being a mandate for independence. We don’t all have to like each other, or agree on detailed policies or what post independence Scotland would look like.
It just struck me that you as a person who constantly goes on an on about what the public thinks are in a party that about 99% of the public don’t support (according to the opinion polls that you usually attack such importance to).
You really should be ashamed of your party’s performance. And you’re the last person that should be coming in here shouting the odds about what the public or anyone else wants.
The fact that I as an individual am a member of a party with a modest % following has no bearing whatever on the importance of actual evidence like opinion polls: quite the opposite in fact. Where’s the evidence that some of the wedge issue politics an policies being advanced by fringe extremists in here enjoy any greater level of public support than Alba?
I have no illusions about the task ahead for Alba, or how difficult it will be. The party might fail, or it might benefit from the imminent SNP gubbing in the Westminster election. I’m not ashamed of Alba as party at all. I’m deeply ashamed of the SNP and its supporters and particularly members. I’m also ashamed of the lack of political courage of Scottish voters generally, and have been since way before 2014.
Why would I be the last person who should be coming in here shouting about what the public or anyone else wants? None of the usual suspects in here can ever explain how their wedge issue monomanias and their cunning plans for indy are somehow more plausible than just “doing the work”, or are representative of more than a handful of independence supporters, however ardently they wish it were otherwise.
“The neighbour you refer to has solemnly sworn before God to wipe its neighbour and its people from the face of the earth.”
The above would be slightly funny if it wasn’t so pathetic, with the opposition quoting biblical scripture whilst murdering at least 40,000 civilians.
Robert Hughes,
Geri.
It is sad to see the people for a independent Scotland being chased out of, wings over Scotland because of a few bullies on the site,
I have been reading old archive blogs of wings and what a delight it was when everyone here was educating each other on the shinnanagins that controlled Scotland, sorting out the tripwires,
learning about the lost revenues of Scotland,
learning how the Barnett formula was one sided,
who owns Scotland,
suggested land reforms,
the treaty of union,
the devolved governments,
the political parties that faked support for Scottish independence,
the Alex Salmond and Craig murry cases,
The educational to big to name them all list from Stu, and wings commentators never ceased to amaze me, for each person held a section of information that others were unaware of,
The power of the people far out weighed the political parties.
The political class parties that wanted to capture all Scots “under one umberella” for easier target practice and to bring the Yes movement to its knees in one fell swoop,
The trojan horses left at the gates.
When all that failed to suppress the People in Scotland, they have now started the next phase.
Along with the Hate Crime Latterly
We have seen The SNP trying to lay down laws on the grass roots yes freedom speech a few years. ago
This third attempt targets the people by a bullying bulldoze tactic attacking a person personally directly,
This method aims at the same goal posts to stymie voices by preventing people getting together on blog that supports Scottish independence,
And for each person that feels forced leaves by this onslaught tatic it is another nail in the coffin for the future of a independent Scotland,
I leave the talk of war out of my comments as much as possible, and I leave the talk of trans….. out of my topics as much as possible, I leave gossip party politics out of my Comments as much as possible,
But take time to observe what the original set up “was” that controls the Scottish people.
And observe what is still obstacle controlling the people of Scotland today,
This is a very ” inspiring site” that supports Scottish independence and it is important not to fall into the quagmire that the often funded or government trolls wish to lead you or I, but to use it for educational purposes.
It has taken awhile for myself to find my own feet on Wings, and nearly stopped posting a few times because of bullies and bulling personal attacks,
That does not stop them trying, the derogortary remarks persist,
I would advise anyone that is thinking about folding, to think wether you win or wether you have just handed them what they set out to achieve, and that is to stop independence support, to make them give up, to go where few will see, hear or read of them,
Stu, himself has undergone some horrendous personal attacks, financial attacks, and political attacks,
But he has survived with grit and determination and intelligence that Scots were so often renowned for.
Do not give in, that is what they hope the people of Scotland will do,
Just post information that educates and is verifiable ( even if by government itself from old records) to the rest of Scottish independence supporters.
Remind others what is wrong, how the system that is at present one sided, how Scots are Controlled,
But do not let the opposition grin like cheshire cats as they watch you fold to give them that win.
I detest the Greens almost as much as I detest the SNP. Of course they are cuckoos. They are there for a purpose and it has nothing to do with independence. Come to think of it, neither does the SNP.
Northcode.
🙂
🙂
Enjoyable and fun read of the root of all that is wrong in Scotland.
@Robert Hughes
When ‘the Devil Rides Out’ the brave ride in tae confront him.
And I get the feeling you are one of the brave.
@Robert Hughes says:15 April, 2024 at 11:14 am
I’m out
Sorry to hear that, but I guess if you can’t hack exposure to opinions you don’t agree with, then you’re doing the right thing.
Don’t give up the search though. That perfect online silo where no views are ever heard but your own, might just be a single mouse-click away.
In fact, who knows, maybe in the not-too-distant future AI will give us all our own, personalised Indy sites, where every post we see will be as good as if we wrote it ourselves.
Hasta la vista!
During one of the Indy marches just before the referendum, I was asked by a TV reporter of a foreign nation what the main reason was behind Scotland’s wish for independence. Never having been asked that so directly before, and still a newbie on the constitutional details, I found myself struggling to clearly articulate it, and my friend intervened and spoke of the democratic deficit that the Westminster parliament imposes on Scotland.
I decided then that the next time I was asked such a question, I was going to have a simple, concise answer, just a few sentences, but ones that encapsulated the key complaint. I’ve had several attempts at this, and the one below is the most recent, and even that has been tweaked quite a number of times. But to explain it properly takes more than a couple of soundbites, so I’ve been thinking it might be better to print it out on something like a postcard to distribute as needed, mostly to provide the relevant historical and constitutional context, which is that the Union consists of two equally sovereign Kingdoms, neither of which gave their sovereignty up, and that fact has consequences that might be less obvious to those unfamiliar with that context.
Scotland’s Democratic Deficit for Foreign Reporters (and not a few UK ones who should already know better!);
The fundamental issue for Scotland is that despite being a full sovereign half of the two equally sovereign kingdoms which founded the United Kingdom and its parliament, virtually every decision made in that parliament is made by England’s MPs, whether or not Scotland’s MPs agree with them. The English partner utterly denies any meaningful respect for its Scottish partner’s own MP decisions in their joint governance of their two kingdoms within their shared parliament.
That lack of respect is often called Scotland’s democratic deficit. That’s the polite term. But it’s not a deficit. It’s not an unfortunate outcome of circumstances beyond anyone’s control. It’s a theft. It is the literal theft of an entire sovereign kingdom by a foreign sovereign kingdom, through the unwarranted denial of Scotland’s formal sovereignty as a Kingdom, country, nation, territory and people within the Union of two such kingdoms.
Scotland did NOT agree, in the international Treaty with England in 1707, to be governed by England’s MPs, and yet England’s MPs dictate all policy for both kingdoms! They do so by imposing a so-called ‘democratic’ presumption that England’s ten-fold MP majority in the Union’s shared parliament is entitled by that majority alone to ‘outvote’ Scotland’s MPs in a FLAT vote of all MPs, despite the total lack of any formal agreement for that entitlement in the Treaty, and despite the total lack of any formal agreement for that flat vote. Even on simple democratic grounds, that is obviously grossly unfair, and their two sovereignties formally preclude any such presumption anyway.
Thus we have the ludicrous situation where the formal representatives of the entire sovereign kingdom of Scotland are forced to defer their own decisions to those of the formal representatives of an entirely foreign sovereign kingdom. This one-sided obligation has no formal provenance. Against England’s ten-fold larger MP body, Scotland’s MPs, despite being the sole formal representatives of an entire sovereign kingdom, literally cannot carry out their formal duties to defend and promote their kingdom’s interests in the very place in the UK where the Treaty requires that to matter. That is Scotland’s Democratic Deficit.
The outcome of that ‘deficit’ has been three centuries of grievous abuse of Scotland and her people by England’s establishment! Ending that deficit and that abuse by reclaiming our stolen sovereignty and our stolen kingdom is precisely why there is a Scottish independence movement!
It’s a bit long for a soundbite, but establishing the correct context is absolutely essential, and the above is as shortened as I can make it.
Xaracen
What isn’t being put across clearly is that the Treaty is a one-2-one relationship between 2 sovereign nations, not their MPs.
Either sovereign can fold the treaty. How many MPs each sovereign represents is irrelevant as the decision is purely between Scotland and England
Xaracen @ 2:57 pm
“I was asked by a TV reporter of a foreign nation what the main reason was behind Scotland’s wish for independence.”
Every colonized people seek independence, which is decolonization, requiring liberation from oppression by another country and culture.
The answer to the question is therefore very simple. As for the Treaty, a great many former colonized peoples were left holding a mankit violated worthless treaty, an us Scots are nae different.
Xaracen,
I always admire your forthright approach and you’re brilliant research abilities, (not a joke nor is it sarcasm) from myself,
However I sometimes “tweak the questions” rather than the orthodox questions that result in the usual answers regarding the Treaty of Parliamentary Union of two Kingdom in equal. partner shop,
Here is a alternative approach to that question on why Englands MPs always over rule Scotland in politics and the stance taken by those MPs.
Here are the Questions I asked myself with regard to the unfairness and inequality between the Union,
Q1: Which parliament in the Isles of Great- Britain, passes Laws, Statues and Legislation for the Country of England only?
Q2: If a Parliament in the Isles of Great Britain is the sole authorised legislator for Country of England is it acting as the Parliament of England?
Q3: If that said parliament is the only law and legislator of the Country of England, is that parliament the parliament of the Country of England, or the Country of Scotland or the parliament Northern Ireland?
Q 4: Does the said parliament of the Country of England share the same members by name as the parliament of Great-Britain. And Sit in the same parliament,
Q5: Does the parliament and legislator of the Country of England open and close the same sessions of parliament with the same members as the parliament of Great-Britain sitting in the same parliament?
Q 6: Is the parliament of England one and the same parliament of Great-Britain legislators.
Q7: Do both the said parliament of England and the parliament of Great- Britain both claim to hold their Parliamentary Sovereignty from the (English) parliamentary Act the “Bill if Rights”
Q8: if the legislator for the Country of England is the parliament of England with the same members, the exact same Opening and shutting times of both of parliaments, with the same Speaker, sitting on the same benches is also the legislator parliament of England & Great Britain do that duel active parliament/s presume the treaty of union with Scotland has been subsumed by their majority of two parliaments two sitting members covering England and Britains under Camouflage is Sovereignty of two parliaments of Great Britain
These are just a few of my alternative Questions as to Why the Mps sitting in the parliament of England and the parliament of Great- Britain at one and the same time think they hold superiority over the Msps of Scotland.
The terminology of Capability would be Englands parliament and the parliament of Great- Britain being one and the same to be “TWICE Lording it over Scotlands side of the treaty of Parliamentary union.
There is no other legislator for England as a Country or a kingdom.
Other than the parliament that sits in the houses of parliament at Westminster.
This makes it the parliament of England.
A parliament that was supposed to cease to create the treaty of parliamentary Union with Scotland.
The Scottish parliament of Scotland came under Dissolution it Has had no Members since 1707.
The parliament of England has continued slightly camouflaged as the parliament of Great-Britain,
But nonetheless very obvious as the sole legislator for England.
@ Xaracen 2.57pm as usual you explain fully the underlying concept of what the union should have been if we had been discussing a working PARTNERSHIP to benefit both countries citizens with a fellow country,an entity similar to that of the previous working EU, but as MOST of us know to form such a partnership or any partnership for that matter there has to be an element of TRUST
Unfortunately as is known both citizenry rebelled against that partnership because they knew they didn’t have that trust in their proposed partner, but the partnership went ahead due to the greed,cowardice and betrayal of the lairds and hierarchy of Scotland, and that greed, cowardice and betrayal still continues to this day by the scum we elect as politicians
POLITICIANS have betrayed Scotland for centuries and continue to do so by refusing to ASSERT that English MP’s have no right to overide or outvote Scotland’s MP’S on matters relating to the uk,they should also be DEMANDING that England has a separate devolved parliament and a separate financial allocation
Surely an independence march should want to attract independence supporters and voters accross the political spectrum from left to right and those indifferent about party politics. When I lived in Scotland most of the independence supporters I knew were politically & socially C/conservative. Will they be welcome at this march? Will they feel secure and welcome in an independent Scotland or feel they will be treated as social pariahs? Surely independence movements should appeal to as broad a section of the public as possible to achieve their aims?
Love the cuckoo analogy re. the Greens! Also tale wagging the dog.
Westminster is a sideshow anyway. Independence cannot and will not be won there. Are you going to criticise Alba or ISP for standing against SNP candidates too? If not why not? Because the same rules you are using apply.
@Gordon;
“What isn’t being put across clearly is that the Treaty is a one-2-one relationship between 2 sovereign nations, not their MPs.”
Hmmm, I think ‘being a full sovereign half of the two equally sovereign kingdoms which founded the United Kingdom and its parliament’ makes that clear enough.
As for their MPs, constitutionally it should be exactly a one-2-one relationship between two distinct bodies of MPs; the actual relationship in play is a 591-to-59 one in a flat vote of all 650 that completely ignores the two sovereignties, thus handing the English kingdom’s representation an unwarranted permanent ten-fold majority over Scotland’s representation. That’s the epicentre of the democratic deficit right there.
Correcting that relationship doesn’t necessarily mean equalising their numbers, it just needs a rule change in the way the votes are conducted, such that whatever the majority outcome of the English body is, it will be England’s Yes or No, and the Scottish body will provide Scotland’s Yes or No, and requiring that no Union matter may be passed in its Parliament without a Yes vote from both bodies.
That way, both kingdoms’ sizes are properly reflected in their MP numbers, while properly acknowledging and respecting their two separate sovereignties.
I subscrbed to Business for Scotland supposedly for ‘training’ in how to win arguments about Scottish independence. Total waste of money although in fairness I’d have to say that some of their banners and billboards are quite good.