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Wings Over Scotland


The triple standard

Posted on May 30, 2013 by

When UKIP’s Nigel Farage was recently made rather unwelcome in Edinburgh, a whole slew of Unionist politicians and commentators – most notably Scottish Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie – took to the nation’s airwaves and newspaper columns to piously condemn the protestors who peacefully but loudly voiced their disapproval of Farage’s policies. Angry online No supporters, as is their wont, were less measured in their fury at the “suppression” of Farage’s free speech.

hoyjack

Today, the subject of the media’s blanket outrage – there are sizeable stories in the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Scotsman, Herald, Daily Record, The Times, Express and many more – is the saintly British Olympic cyclist, Sir Chris Hoy. The unfortunate sportsman has been the subject of what the Mail calls “vile abuse” for some comments in yesterday’s papers in which he ostensibly refused to take sides in the independence debate (but in reality could barely have made his position any clearer).

But another similar (and rather more serious) story, about online abuse directed at a Scottish public figure every bit as well known as Hoy, inexplicably gets only a microscopic fraction of the coverage.

Frankie Boyle has around 1.4m followers on Twitter – close to three times as many as Hoy’s 500,000. It could quite plausibly be argued that the uncompromising Glasgow comedian is currently the most famous Scot in popular culture. Yet for some reason a story reporting how the police have been involved after abuse leading Boyle to fear for the safety of his children gets just a few short lines in the Herald and appears nowhere else at all that we’ve been able to find.

Impartial observers might think that such an event would be a little more newsworthy than some incredibly mild rudeness being directed at Chris Hoy. The worst of the “vile abuse” described by the Mail and others contained such spine-chilling vitriol as the athlete being called a “soft sod”, a “public schoolboy” and a “tosser”. An accusation of “traitor” being reported in many of the papers, meanwhile, appears to have actually come from a Unionist – the Scotsman quotes it in full as:

“Oh dear Chris, you have just went from being a Scottish hero in the eyes of the Bravehearts to being a traitor, how dare you ?”

Particularly alert readers may have spotted that independence supporters rarely tend to refer to themselves as “the Bravehearts”, sneering references to the 1995 Mel Gibson movie being very much the province of the “Better Together” camp. The only rational interpretation is that a No advocate has decided to dispense with the tiresome notion of actually waiting for a “cybernat” to use the term and just put the words into their mouth anyway.

[EDIT 12.21pm: The Scotsman has now rewritten the story to remove that quote, though it strangely keeps the reference to Hoy allegedly being called a “traitor”. The original existence of the line can still be demonstrated via Google results if you search for the full phrase.]

(It’s notable, however, that after the farce of Calmangate the press has this time been careful to at least supply some evidence of the alleged hate campaign, even if none of it comes remotely close to justifying the shock-horror headlines. We have to assume they’re counting on readers not bothering to get beyond the first paragraph.)

boylethreat

Boyle, on the other hand, is known to have suffered explicit threats before, including people posting what was purported to be his home address and inviting people to assault him there, also in the context of an argument about independence. Now the situation has become so serious the forces of law and order have been dragged in. Yet seemingly the prospect of a violent attack on someone’s family home is less interesting than someone being called a “soft sod” on Twitter.

We hate to be so cynical as to suggest that the respective degrees of media coverage given to the two events bears a direct correlation to the fact that Frankie Boyle supports independence and Chris Hoy and Susan Calman don’t. But it’s hard to draw any other conclusion, when looking purely at the journalistic merits of their stories.

Calman alleged abuse that nobody saw and which she herself admitted to not having read, while Hoy got called a few names that wouldn’t upset an oversensitive X-Factor contestant, and the media expended page after page after page, and huge slabs of TV and radio airtime on them. Boyle had people directly urge physical violence against him, publishing an address (which even if it wasn’t his could have led to whoever did live there having bricks put through their window or worse) and gets 70 words on it in a solitary paper.

(For reference, the paragraph above contains 92 words.)

One might, of course, contend that Boyle is a less likeable character than squeaky-clean Hoy on account of his abrasive comedy style, and therefore less likely to be depicted sympathetically in the press as a victim – the “if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out” argument. But that line collapses when the No camp and its media champions also issue thousands and thousands of strident words on Nigel Farage’s right to espouse his grotesquely unpleasant views without even being shouted at a bit.

So far as we can establish, then, the guidelines go:

1. Disgusting, hate-filled cybernats must not be allowed to criticise in even the mildest of terms anyone who is opposed or neutral to independence, and must be endlessly condemned and disowned by the Yes campaign, the SNP and Alex Salmond personally at every instance of some anonymous internet loony being a bit rude to a British darling.

2. “Better Together”, however, are never to be held responsible for the actions of extremists who support the Union. It’s fine to accuse nutter-fringe Scottish nationalists of anti-English racism and blame the SNP for their actions whether they’re members of the party or not, but for some reason Blair McDougall and Alistair Darling are not conversely accountable for pro-Union racists like the BNP, EDL or Orange Order.

3. People who make controversial and/or offensive statements in favour of independence are basically asking for it, and can expect no media sympathy.

4. Unionists who make controversial and/or offensive statements, though, must have their right to free speech defended at enormous length, even if it’s been impossible to switch on the television without seeing their face and hearing their voice for months. Anyone exercising their lawful right to protest peacefully against them must be declared a “fascist”.

5. It is, however, absolutely fine to call the SNP and supporters of independence fascists and racists – even if you’re not just some ranting anonymous internet sociopath with 26 followers on Twitter, but an elected member of parliament or a journalist on a respectable newspaper with an audience of millions.

Have we missed anything? Abuse must always be condemned, but free speech must always be protected, unless the person speaking freely is in favour of independence, in which case it’s Rafferty’s Rules. Welcome, readers, to the UK media’s triple standard.

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115 to “The triple standard”

  1. MajorBloodnok says:

    Bought and sold for Olympic gold.

  2. Doug Daniel says:

    Is the Triple Standard a Commonwealth Games event? That’ll be a gold, silver AND bronze in the bag for Scotland if so.
     
    Notice how samey the Chris Hoy articles are? Almost as if they originated from the same source. Hmmmm… Oh, and at least one of the tweeters they’re getting worked up about is a unionist troll masquerading as a Cybernat – @YesToScotland, otherwise known as J McG Linklater. He’s about as subtle as the Union Jocks!

  3. Training Day says:

    Stu – it appears that the Scotsman has now removed the ‘Braveheart’ quote you mention above, perhaps recognising that it does not fit with their narrative.

  4. Arbroath1320 says:

    PHEW!
    Glad someone has finally put in print the rules of engagement” I was beginning to wonder if there were any rules at all. 😆

  5. bawheid bragg says:

    ‘soft sod’ – this strikes me as a particularly un-scottish term of abuse. could be a unionist posing as an ‘indie’.

  6. Bobby Mckail says:

    Spot on as usual. No doubt a phone call from Blair McDougal and Co feeding the “Newspapers” this guff. Wonder what Johann Lamont has up her sleeve for FMQ’s?

  7. muttley79 says:

    I think what we are seeing at the moment is a sustained attempt to portray independence supporters as extremists.  The MSM are trying to maintain the conditioning of the people of Scotland into believing that the status quo is natural, and that supporting independence is somehow unnatural.  They have been doing this for decades, but have definitely been stepping it up recently.  This imbalance and bias means that abuse by Unionists on the internet is routinely ignored, and any abuse from some Cybernats is highlighted to a ridiculous degree.  The message from the MSM is clear: support for the Union=good, support for independence=bad.  By demonising cybernats that is their intention.  Lastly, to be honest calling Chris Hoy a “tosser” is stupid because it just plays into the MSM, and their Unionist buddies hands.  Also, we are not going to win the referendum by abusing No voters and supporters.         

  8. Gordon Bain says:

    Is anyone surprised by this and is there not some way to get an independent monitor of all this crap? Just suppose these morons win and Scotland votes no. How can we live with these Nero’s?

  9. Jiggsbro says:

    I think your 5 guidelines can be more succinctly expressed as one: Unionists good, nationalists bad.

  10. Guy Fawkes says:

    I notice that you think it was funny that that right wing clown Farage was  “made rather unwelcome”, so do I, but i feel your reaction to an incident involving the  Green Brigade in which large numbers of police had to attend, some arrests were made, the good people of Scotland were interupted going about their business and there was no permission given from the local authorities for the “illegal gathering” your take on it would be rather different. Your over reaching by calling your article triple standard, double standard would have done the job

  11. Cheryl says:

    “Soft sod”, give me strength.

  12. cadgers says:

     
    bawheid bragg says:silly sod
     
    I find ‘tosser’ rather suspect too. Is it used a lot in Scotland?

  13. Cath says:

    Good article Rev. Have to say I’m increasingly becoming extremely angry with politicians and media on the NO side, and their continual smears and put downs of people in Scotland and in particular those who support independence. Angry to a point I don’t normally reach and don’t much like. I’ll remain polite because it’s counter-productive to do anything else but certain politicians and parties who wish to continue to have a career in Scotland whatever the result next year surely can’t be unaware how angry their word and actions must be making a huge amount of generally affable people?
     
    They are the ones raising hatreds, both within Scotland and of Scotland and Scottish people generally outwith. For politicians and media deliberately to do that is dangerous and utterly vile and sickening. None of them deserve any public voice, and yet they are the only ones being heard.
     
     

  14. John Lyons says:

     Lastly, to be honest calling Chris Hoy a “tosser” is stupid….
     
    Yeah but, he is though…

  15. Max says:

    Obviously freedom of speech doesn’t apply to all Scots, only Union Jocks.

    Interesting happenings at the Scotsman.

    The Scotsman actually quoted abusive comments about Chris Hoy that were sourced directly to unionists. When this was pointed out the Scotsman quickly removed these comments from their original story.

    Also is being factually called a “public schoolboy” a term of abuse? After all the Coalition government is full of praiseworthy “public schoolboys”, so we are told.

  16. Geoff Huijer says:

    The MSM’s propaganda would put PRAVDA to shame.
    It truly is depressing that the Independence ‘debate’
    is being highjacked and spun into the Unionist MSM’s
    own agenda.
     
    Surprised the UK haven’t sent forces in to remove
    the apparent ‘dictator’ that is Alex Salmond…

  17. Cath says:

    “Oh, and at least one of the tweeters they’re getting worked up about is a unionist troll masquerading as a Cybernat – @YesToScotland, otherwise known as J McG Linklater.”
     
    Well the unionists have been demanding the SNP should get tough on online abuse.  Perhaps it’s time the Scottish government did just that and started actively prosecuting hate speech on the internet. I strongly suspect false flags and unionists posing as indy supporters will get much worse over the next year. Would be quite interesting to see them unmasked and in court.

  18. Max says:

     
    It would appear the “Bravehearts” comments originates from a unionist source. 

  19. Iain says:

    In the Scotsman piece:

    ‘He was called “a ("Tractor" - Ed)”, an “Uncle Tom”, a “typical Scots Tory naysayer” and a member of “an English dominated national sports program which concentrates on advancing the English cause”.’

    I think the composer of the last barb needs a bit of training in the vile, wounding, abusive Cybernattery department.

  20. Cheryl says:

    Just had a nosey at the Twitter of the guy who made the ‘soft sod’ comment, Jesus it’s the least offensive Twitter page you could probably find.  The comment in itself isn’t aggressive either.
     
     

  21. Norsewarrior says:

    “The worst of the “vile abuse” described by the Mail and others contained such spine-chilling vitriol as the athlete being called a “soft sod” a “public schoolboy” and a “tosser””

    According to the Scotsman the abuse was slightly worse than that – with Hoy being called a ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’, ‘Uncle Tom’, and a ‘bigoted anti-Scot’ by “pro-independence supporters”. 

    I’ve always been strongly opposed to the use of language such as ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ and ‘anti-Scot’ to describe anyone who doesn’t support independence, it does our cause no good whatsoever and merely creates a damaging, divisive, hateful situation that potentially puts off yes voters and that is harmful to Scotland, bearing in mind that whatever the result of the referendum both sides will still be here and will be part of Scottish society. 

    Having said that, there is similar abuse from no campaigners, and it is clear that the media aren’t reporting the abuse that Frankie Boyle has received from such people.

  22. Yesitis says:

    Muttley79
    “I think what we are seeing at the moment is a sustained attempt to portray independence supporters as extremists.  The MSM are trying to maintain the conditioning of the people of Scotland into believing that the status quo is natural, and that supporting independence is somehow unnatural.”

    The mainstream media in Scotland (and not just in Scotland) is playing a dangerous game. It should be careful for what is wishes (or is insinuating?). There is only so much crap people can take before they either break or lash out. I wonder which is it to be?
     
    If the referendum was held this September, I suspect the levels of smearing, insults and media manipulation could just about be tolerated, but 16 months of this (and this still being the tip of the iceberg)?
     
    Genuinely, how long can you tolerate the insinuation independence supporters are  fanatics or extremists by an increasingly hysterical anti-Scottish media? Yes, an anti-Scottish media.
     
    I have been feeling more positive about the referendum lately, but today, this just made me angry. More angry.
     
    Sorry for the rant.

  23. Macart says:

    I just love the fact they were using unionist quotes to smear independence supporters.
     
    Priceless journalism. 😀

  24. G. Campbell says:

    TOMORROW’S NOT NEWS TODAY

    Better togetherer #1 wants to make Alex Salmond a foreigner. Better togetherer #2 wants to squelch him. Better togetherer #3 is offended by his waistline.

    cammyanderson @cammyanderson98 10h
    alex salmond? you my friend can take your referendum, f*ck off to ireland, do your republic shit there,leave my fucking country @AlexSalmond
    https://twitter.com/cammyanderson98/status/339902436854595584

    Treacle @treacle1690CCA 28 May
    @Maintain_Union I have one. F*CK GERRY ADAMS AND ALEX SALMOND. KNOW YOUR ENEMIES, THEY STAND HAND IN HAND. CRUSH THEM. RULE BRITANNIA.
    https://twitter.com/treacle1690CCA/status/339398858318696448

    JackBrown. @JackBrownRFC 26 May
    F*CK ALEX SALMOND! #fatprick #c*nt #voteNO
    https://twitter.com/JackBrownRFC/status/338750405410435072

  25. Cath says:

    “According to the Scotsman the abuse was slightly worse than that – with Hoy being called a ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’, ‘Uncle Tom’, and a ‘bigoted anti-Scot’ by “pro-independence supporters”. ”
     
    Which they appear to have now taken down as it was pointed out all these came from unionists.
     
    In fact, whenever I see or hear the words “("Tractor" - Ed)” and “braveheart” in relation to the independence debate, it’s only ever from Unionists. It’s part of the unionist narrative for smearing those on the independence side, along with the anti-English smears.
     

  26. Training Day says:

    Oh, that Bell, McWhirter or McNeil would highlight the disgrace that professional liars like Alan Roden and Simon Johnson bring upon journalism.

  27. Desimond says:

    Its just a shame Chris Hoy isnt at The Sir Chris Hoy Velodrome for The Commonwealth Games 2014 …could have been plenty of Saltire raising moments there,…ohhh

  28. Cath says:

    It is a dangerous game they’re playing. It’s also so untrue that don’t know and no voters are likely to see right through it. Unlike politicians, voters are not so tribally split into SNP/Labour; Yes/no that we don’t have good friends and family in other camps. So if the smears start to go too far, “don’t knows” and even “no” voters will see through it and also possibly start to become angry and offended on behalf of their friends and family they know are Yes supporters.
     
    Same with the very many English people living happily in Scotland and not suffering abuse. Lies, smears and attempting to de-humanise and entire swathe of people might work with people outside Scotland who see us as knuckle-dragging foreigners anyway. But it will be much harder to achieve that within the country.

  29. Al Ghaf says:

    Had all this happened 40 years ago the British media would have enjoyed the ignominity of being front and centre in a book by Noam Chomsky. 

  30. Sapheneia says:

    Yesitis:
    “How long can you tolerate the insinuation independence supporters are  fanatics or extremists by an increasingly hysterical anti-Scottish media?”
    For me the answer is indefinitely. Gaining the right of sovereign self determination has rarely been easy for any country.  If seeking this basic human right through a democratic vote labels me a fanatic or extremist then it says more about the UK than me.
    Ultimately the anti-Scottish slant will backfire.

  31. Rod Mac says:

    This is all part of a carefully worked out Unionist plan to marginalise Independence Supporters .
    I wonder where they got the idea from?
    1.      Whenever you see an article or comment or statement which diminishes Scotland or it’s ability to run it’s own affairs think on the following and why it is done becomes a little clearer.
    “Deprive the people of their national consciousness, treat them as a tribe, dilute their national pride, do not teach their history, propagate their language as inferior, imply they have a cultural void, emphasise their customs are primitive and dismiss independence as a barbaric anomaly”
    Do these comments ring a bell with anyone?
    Who said them? Reinhard Heydrich, Nazi Leader, styled Protector of Czechoslovakia

  32. Norsewarrior says:

    Which they appear to have now taken down as it was pointed out all these came from unionists.”

    No, I just looked at the article and those quotes are still there.

    In fact, whenever I see or hear the words “("Tractor" - Ed)” and “braveheart” in relation to the independence debate, it’s only ever from Unionists”

    Yes you are correct with regard to ‘Braveheart’, but wrong about ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ unfortunately – I’ve seen numerous instances of pro-independence people calling other Scots ‘("Tractor" - Ed)s’ or ‘anti-Scottish’ simply because they don’t want independence. 

    As I said, such language is damaging to our cause and divisive to Scotland as a whole, and should be roundly condemned rather than swept under the carpet or fobbed off to the other side, as you appear to be trying to do.

  33. Norsewarrior says:

    “Do these comments ring a bell with anyone? Who said them? Reinhard Heydrich, Nazi Leader”

    Let’s not go down the Godwin’s law route please.

  34. Robert McDonald says:

    Cammyanderson is a 4th year schoolboy from scanning his tweets….

  35. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Let’s not go down the Godwin’s law route please.”

    I agree, but it’s a smidge ironic from someone using the name “Norsewarrior”.

  36. pa_broon74 says:

    Did you even read what Rev Stu wrote? The word ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ was contained in a comment from a unionist supporter who was trying to lampoon a ‘cybernat’ – no nationalist actually said the word ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’ or ‘braveheart’.
     
    I fully expect to be arguing about the colour of socks the Scotsman’s editor was wearing while this story was being published.
     
    The Scotsman represented and is still representing (now out of context) words from within a comment made by a unionist as a comment from a nationalist. I didn’t think it was that complicated.

  37. Cath says:

    Gaining the right of sovereign self determination has rarely been easy for any country.
     
    True and those fighting for it are always despised and derided by their overlords. Churchill hated Gandhi and wanted him eliminated, for example.
     
    http://www.hindu.com/mag/2005/06/19/stories/2005061900060300.htm

  38. Dee says:

    Chris Hoy didn’t retire due to health, he just couldn’t bring himself round to the thought of representing Scotland.  Too much English sponsorship money at stake.  Mr Hoy, we see right through you,  you are kidding nobody.. You have been Anglosized.. So take your bike and your Union Jack and F Off back to England.  And what sport was it that he actually competed in? Was he a Tosser or a Cyclist .??. I hope he reads this in the telegraph in the morning.!!!

  39. Luigi says:

    With half a million people now depending on food banks, does anyone really care if Sir Chris got on his bike and headed south?

  40. handclapping says:

    Life was so simple before we had these bloody nationalists.

  41. Indy_Scot says:

     
    Trojan trolls, don’t you just love ’em.
     

  42. Craig Evans says:

    As a matter of interest; can anyone point me to the actual recording of the Radio 5 Live interview with Sir Chris so I can  hear what he actually said rather than the glaring headlines?

  43. Iain says:

    @Dee

    A fine satire on what the fevered imaginings of Unionists perceive as typical Cybernat bile.
     
     
     

  44. Macart says:

    Chris Hoy is a great athlete and I really do understand where he’s coming from in terms of sporting success. He is who he is and that’s his world.
     
    Hooowwwwwever, I’m with Luigi on this – priorities, priorities. Losing the need for food banks, chucking Trident, building a sovereign oil fund for a rainy day, securing services for the least able among us, rebuilding a manufacturing infrastructure and providing jobs are a bit more important to me than how quick I can shoogle a gird cleek roond in a circle. Sporting excellence is great, but ensuring kids aren’t born into poverty kind of trumps it in terms of priorities.

  45. HandandShrimp says:

    Well if the press insist highlighting these instances I think that perhaps the police should have a look and then let’s see how many of these are really Yes Scotland campaigners and how many are Naesayer trolls…some perhaps even media types. Then we will see how enthusiastic they are to run the “Abusers were Bitter Together Trolls” headlines.
     
    Not every sportsperson, businessman, politican or celebrity will back our cause let’s celebrate those who do and leave the trashing to negative and nasty No types. There is nothing to be gained from bad mouthing somone that doesn’t agree with you.  

  46. Macart says:

    @HandandShrimp
     
    Sounds like a plan HS. 🙂

  47. heraldnomore says:

    The real issue with sports facilities for the elite is why they are where they are, and not spread around these isles.  We have invested 8.4% of the total costs I’m assuming, and are due a similar share of the asset.
    Hoy is entitled to his opinion, and to his vote assuming of course he is resident in these parts.
    Rather than castigating him is it not better to look closer at sports funding, facilities etc and to highlight the impartiality?

  48. M4rkyboy says:

    O/T but is anyone watching the Referendum committee that took place today?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/scotland-22710545
    Dennis Canavan,Blair Jenkins,Blair McDougall et al getting grilled by the committee at Holyrood.

  49. Joybell says:

    @ iain
     
    I take it that you’re not worried about the bias of the media.  That’s what this thread is really about.  If the bias wasn’t there people like Dee would not feel like venting their spleen.  Of course it’s all part of the agenda…To get us all riled up and then tell us how awful we are.
     
     
     
     

  50. Taranaich says:

    According to the Scotsman the abuse was slightly worse than that – with Hoy being called a ‘("Tractor" - Ed)’, ‘Uncle Tom’, and a ‘bigoted anti-Scot’ by “pro-independence supporters”.
     
    As said elsewhere, “("Tractor" - Ed)” was a word used by a Union supporter, but just asking: why is calling someone a ("Tractor" - Ed) abusive?  As far as I’m aware, “("Tractor" - Ed)” does not exclusively mean someone who commits an act of treason (which is illegal, and thus it would be libellous to suggest Hoy or anyone is actively betraying their country’s safety).  Traitor has been applied to any number of perfectly legal if disagreeable things: would calling a sportsman going from one team to another a “("Tractor" - Ed)” be abusive?  You might as well complain about the use of “blackguard,” “turncoat” or “apostate.”
     
    “Uncle Tom” – a tad tasteless given the comparison of Scotland in the UK to blacks in pre-Civil Rights America, but the idea of a person of one group showing great deference to an authority figure at the expense of their comrades, by participating in the perpetuation of that situation. So again, tasteless, but apt.
     
    Of all of them, only “bigoted Anti-Scot” is really particularly objectionable, and even then, it’s only because it seems inaccurate. Would calling David Starkey a “bigoted Anti-Scot” be abusive, even if he has shown many examples of bigotry and anti-Scottish sentiments? At what point does basic, accurate observation become
     
    Are there any examples of well-known and taboo slurs, ethnic or otherwise? Any extreme swearing? Any threats on Hoy’s life or livelihood?  No.  I’m a very sensitive individual at the best of times who dislikes swearing and being mean – but this “abuse” apparently being hurled at Hoy is anything but, and it disgusts me that the MSM would treat it as it is. It dilutes and belittles REAL abuse in order to score political points  – real abuse like, say, a man calling the police fearing for his family’s safety after receiving threatening messages.
     
    I posted this comment over at The Herald, but just in case it doesn’t appear:
     

    So Chris Hoy has some criticism given his way on the internet using language that wouldn’t be out of place in a Sunday Evening situation comedy (seriously, we’re considering calling someone a “public schoolboy” and “tosser” tantamount to abuse these days? Alleging him to be part of “an English dominated national sports program which concentrates on advancing the English cause” is somehow abusive as opposed to, say, an observation?), and this is considered a grave and devastating campaign of bile and savagery.
    Frankie Boyle calls the police because he fears for his children’s safety after receiving threatening messages online, and this warrants a percentage of a fraction of the media hoopla of this “abus” of Mr. Hoy.
    Given the Herald seems to still be using quotes from Unionist sources (“("Tractor" - Ed)” in particular comes from a tweet saying “Oh dear Chris, you have just went from being a Scottish hero in the eyes of the Bravehearts to being a ("Tractor" - Ed), how dare you ?”) to bolster and support this oh so very serious and grim attack on Mr Hoy’s character, I have to wonder… Exactly WHY is so much attention is being given to one celebrity who suffers from – let’s face it – practically harmless internet chatter after making comments critical of Scottish independence, while another celebrity FEARS FOR HIS CHILDREN’S LIVES after solidly stating his support for independence has practically no coverage?

  51. muttley79 says:

    I agree with HandandShrimp.  There is nothing to be gained from bad mouthing people who support the No campaign.  The MSM and Unionists want to get a reaction because they do not have a positive case for the Union.  They want to stir as much bitterness as they can to derail the Yes campaign, and the debate in general.  Unfortunately some people are playing right into their hands… 

  52. Iain says:

    @ Joybell
     
    I’m worried about it, but the answer to media lying, bias and exaggeration of ‘Nat’ abuse isn’t providing authentic Nat abuse. Puncturing the Unionists’ vast, hot-air filled balloons of faux outrage, as the RevStu does, is the only meaningful response.

  53. abigdoob says:

    I spent a while with a column search in Hootsuite for Indy terms e.g. ‘Salmond’ etc, & it was amazing how many identical, or very very similar tweets appeared in gangs from supposedly different users giving abuse to the FM or others.
    The interesting thing was the number of these users whose timelines often contained no previous record of views either way on Indy, or were, judging from their content, from outside the UK entirely.
    Is there a thriving market where established twitter accounts can be bought?

  54. CameronB says:

    Thought these extracts from the UN Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, might strike a chord (my highlighting).
     
    And to this end Declares that:
    1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
    2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
    3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.
    4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.
    5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.
    6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
    7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial.
     
    http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/declaration.shtml

  55. Weedeochandorris says:

    We have to be very aware of these ‘red flags’ that will no doubt become more frequentl as we get closer to the date.  Better to ignore them and save energy for the positive stuff.  I do think its the best way to get through the next few months.  Hold, hold. 🙂

  56. pmcrek says:

    Insulting people on the internets is serious business.

  57. Max says:

     
    When you survey the web for the word “("Tractor" - Ed)” you find it is those who are right-wing who use the word most.
     
    The Daily Mail ran a comments thread in 2011 that was titled, “Is Gordon Brown a ("Tractor" - Ed)?”
     
     .html" onclick="_gaq.push(['_trackEvent', 'outbound-comment', 'http://boards.dailymail.co.uk/news-board-moderated/10231062-gordon-brown-("Tractor" - Ed).html', 'http://boards.dailymail.co.uk/news-board-moderated/10231062-gordon-brown-("Tractor" - Ed).html']);" rel="nofollow">http://boards.dailymail.co.uk/news-board-moderated/10231062-gordon-brown-("Tractor" - Ed).html
     
    Check out “Alex Salmond ("Tractor" - Ed)” to get a feel what’s out there.
     
    So it makes sense that a unionist would mistakenly attempt to ascribe the word “("Tractor" - Ed)” to Scottish nationalists. After all in there eyes we are all ("Tractor" - Ed)s. 
     

  58. beachthistle says:

    I think @Cath  hits it on the head with  “I strongly suspect false flags and unionists posing as indy supporters will get much worse over the next year.”
    and @Indy_Scot ‘s “Trojan trolls” 
     
     
    We should be using our e-savviness to glean evidence and unmask the false-flaggers/trojan trolls, and as @Cath says, “see them unmasked and in court.”
    The Hoy thing was set up from the beginning to be cybernat bait, and if cybernats didn’t bite hard enough, for there to be a false-flag social media response for the MSM to latch onto and trumpet. False-flag propaganda has been in the UK Establishment’s repertoire of anti-independence dirty tricks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
    We all should become more aware of false-flag and other propaganda tactics, as the use of them going to increase (especially when opinion polls start to consistently go against NO),  and use our social media and e-skills to publicly flush out NO’s cyberrats.

  59. CameronB says:

    Obviously a glaring oversight on my part, as the last Declaration (# 7), should have been highlighted. So I’ll post it again, just to make sure :).
     
    7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

  60. Marcia says:

    Another Aunt Sally put up and knocked down. Will they ever learn.
     
    If this is a means of demonising ‘Cybernats’ well the Yes people could put up a poster with a lot of photoies of grannies and grandads – ‘Cybernats wanting a better future for their grandchildren – we even make good sponge cakes etc. ‘

  61. G. Campbell says:

    Dee said: “You have been Anglosized”

    Nonsense. Ronnie Corbett’s main home is in London and he’s still tiny.

  62. Barontorc says:

    I  hope Chris Hoy get’s left in peace. I know him, he’s a really decent guy and I’m sure he wishes Scotland well, no matter what he thinks of the UK, be it for him  or not and I’m certainly not so sure that it is.
     
    I’ll bet the whole of Scotland was cheering to the rafters when he won all those medals and that’s the whole point of it all. How he was manipulated by the GB media machine is another matter and largely outwith his control. Just look at the lionising of Andy Murray when he’s doing well for ‘Team UK’ and the hot-potato treatment he gets when he’s in-between.
     
     

  63. YesYesYes says:

    Although Chris Hoy will be a mentor at the Commonwealth games, the official reason he gave in TV interviews for not competing for Scotland at the Games in 2014, is that he felt it was time “to give younger guys a chance” as well as his fear that he might not win a medal. Depending on your politics, this was either a magnanimous gesture or a good piece of PR deflection on Hoy’s part. You can’t help thinking, though, that if it was the London Olympics being held in 2014, Hoy might not have been so generous to these ‘younger guys’. In other words, Hoy isn’t daft, he’s only too aware of the risks to the No campaign of Scotland’s most famous contemporary athlete being seen draped in a saltire and glad-handing Alex Salmond a few weeks before the independence referendum.  
     
    Hoy might be coy about his voting intentions in the independence referendum but the world and its auntie knows that he’ll be voting No. But his reasoning about the state of sports facilities in Scotland isn’t very sound. He seems to be saying that sports facilities in Scotland are so poor that Scottish athletes are forced to move down south to use the superior facilities there, a situation we’re only all too familiar with. But he doesn’t make anything of the fact that, for generations, Scottish athletes have struggled with these inferior Scottish sports facilities while we have been part of the union. So the obvious point to make here, surely, is that perhaps the union isn’t working for Scottish sport, among other things?
     
    On a related topic, earlier this morning, Stephen Noon tweeted a link to an astonishing fact about wealth distribution in the UK, the relevant bar chart is 1 minute 40 seconds into the video:
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGdRM3C_wjc
     
     
    The data is from the ONS and shows the proportion of households of the population in eleven ‘regions’ in the UK who hold wealth greater than £967,000. Putting aside for the moment that few of us are going to shed any tears for these people, the bar chart shows, astonishingly, that of the eleven ‘regions’ identified, Scotland has the lowest proportion of households in the UK with wealth less than £967,000. It’s worth thinking about what this means. For example, Scotland, one of the wealthiest parts of the UK, has a lower proportion of households with wealth of more than £967,000 than even the North East of England and Wales, two of the poorest ‘regions’ of the UK. Which raises the question, where is all of Scotland’s wealth going, for it’s certainly not being accumulated in Scotland? 

  64. Gordon Bain says:

    In my humble opinion if you put the needs of another country before your own but at the same time rely on your own people to pay your wages then there is only one word. That word is ("Tractor" - Ed)!
    Hail Alba

  65. Chic McGregor says:

    @Arbroath1320 says:
    “30 May, 2013 at 11:41 am

    PHEW!
    Glad someone has finally put in print the rules of engagement” I was beginning to wonder if there were any rules at all. ”

     
    Pre the referendum footing upgrade, but,…
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8CTHz_DTDtlM0pxbHp4ZzFGbmM/edit?usp=sharing

  66. Yesitis says:

    Chic McGregor 🙂
    Spot on.
     
    The sun`s just come out over the northern suburbs of Dundee. I feel a lot better.

  67. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I’ll bet the whole of Scotland was cheering to the rafters when he won all those medals”

    I didn’t give a monkey’s. He wasn’t doing it for me, why should I care?

  68. Red Squirrel says:

    Oh dearie dearie me.
    1. anyone insulting anyone else on the basis of their democratically stated opinion is an idiot and if they break the law by threatening that person, they deserve everything they get.  So what if a man riding a bike doesn’t want independence?  That’s his opinion and he’s entitled to it – personally I don’t agree but I do respect his right to support the union if that is his belief of what’s best for him.
    2. MSM – really what did you think was going to happen? Yes it’s not right; yes it’s biased; yes that’s unfair. It isn’t going to change anytime soon and wailing about it won’t get us anywhere.  Honestly – toddler tantrum behaviour as it is, and they can scream themselves sick if they like, it doesn’t change the facts of the independence case and folk will make up their own minds.  Another 16 months of this shite and folk won’t be able to vote YES quick enough.
    Who knows, they may well be doing us a favour by keeping independence such a hot topic – if we weren’t getting bad coverage, we wouldn’t be getting any coverage.  I don’t believe folk are that stupid that this will wash for another 16 months. 
    We’ve a very long way to go yet – all our energy needs to be focussed on changing minds, not arguing the toss about unionist drivel. 

  69. pa_broon74 says:

    I might have cheered for him, but I was so completely, universally and irredeemably pissed off – nay, fucked off –  with the entire olympogasm the UK seemed to be having at that time.
     
    For that reason, I didn’t and still couldn’t give a shit about any of it.

  70. helpmaboab says:

    A quick deek at Sir Chris’s twitter feed reveals a grand total of zero tweets in response to those abusers. So either he’s a big boy or someone has hacked his account and been having an uneventful day.
    If I was him I think I’d be more annoyed at how his interview has been manipulated to create column inches in the next days papers rather than actually present his opinions.
    Also, haven’t we now built one of those world class velodrome thingies for, you know, that major sporting event next year? Maybe we could use that instead of schlepping our bikes down to Manchester on the train..?

  71. Adrian B says:

    That Bella link needs to be shared far and wide. Its not going to get better if we stay together, after 306 years Scotland as a region of the UK languishes in last place. Official figures released from the Office of National Statistics.
     
    That link again :

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/05/30/distribution-of-wealth-in-the-4th-most-unequal-country-in-the-world/

  72. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Red Squirrel
    Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish Political Media Digest and Monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (See top right of every page!)
    It is only doing what it says on the tin.

  73. Norsewarrior says:

    Hoy isn’t daft, he’s only too aware of the risks to the No campaign of Scotland’s most famous contemporary athlete being seen draped in a saltire and glad-handing Alex Salmond a few weeks before the independence referendum”

    Yes I’m sure Hoy retired from competing just so he wouldn’t have to drape himself in the saltire and get a medal presented to him by what will be a ubiquitous Salmond at the Commonwealth Games! 

  74. Norsewarrior says:

    I might have cheered for him, but I was so completely, universally and irredeemably pissed off – nay, fucked off –  with the entire olympogasm the UK seemed to be having at that time”

    Out of interest, why did a host country celebrating the holding of the Olympics and its winning athletes, ‘fuck’ you off? 

    Personally it didn’t interest me one way or the other, but I certainly wasn’t ‘fucked off’ by anyone celebrating the Olympics or successful GB athletes, why on earth shouldn’t they celebrate that?! 

  75. Red Squirrel says:

    @The Main in the Jar
    Aye I’ve noticed and it brilliantly lives up to it which has helped me a lot. But does anyone really care that much about a man on a bike?  Maybe it’s the lycra – just can’t take him seriously. (worryingly suspect it may be a better together fetish – urgh now I see them all in lycra, oh gods!)

  76. scottish_skier says:

    Out of interest, why did a host country celebrating the holding of the Olympics and its winning athletes, ‘fuck’ you off?
    Given that his taxes paid for it but he didn’t even get a ticket, I’d say he had as much right to be peed off as someone had to enjoy it.
    I prefer winter sports myself.

  77. HandandShrimp says:

    The media thing on the Olympics was rather over done in my view but I can’t say the actual races competitions bothered me and it was nice to see the warmth towards atheletes like Bolt and Farrah and it was nice to see Murray come of age and show his true capabilities. I didn’t watch a lot of it as it covers so many sports I’m not interested in. I didn’t see the opening ceremony and only a wee bit of the closing ceremony…I got bored.
     
    Whatever the reasons for Hoy bowing out of the Commonwealth Games (and I think it did shake the Glasgow organisers) it is done now and if you aren’t there you can’t win it. A lot may happen in the next 16 months. One thing is certain if Hoy was a Union poster boy he won’t be winning gold at Glasgow and giving kudos to the UK for training facilities so it cuts both ways.

  78. Dee says:

    Because the English hijacked it Norsewarrior, along with all that Jubilee shit, it was just too much to take in, in such a short period of time,  I was GLAD to see the back of 2012.

  79. Craig M says:

    Scots Celebs just need to be extremely careful in the current climate if they wish to avoid being used as pawns by both camps. If a celeb has the strength of character to come out openly for one camp or the other then they have to prepared for scrutiny, after all, Celebs can’t have their cake and eat it. Being in the public eye is what makes them celebs. With regard to Chris Hoy, in my opinion, and I emphasize, in my opinion, no medal is worth the social and economic deprivation seen in some parts of Scotland and directly attributable to our place in the Union. I personally would prefer to see no gold medal winners in Team GB if it meant that child poverty was eradicated in Scotland. Equally no Team GB medal is worth the lies that have been fed to the Scottish people over the last 50 years, e.g. McCrone Report. 
     
    Just my opinion.

  80. HandandShrimp says:

    Dee
     
    Be fair, the Jubilee was an exercise of smiling in the rain – metaphorically and literally 🙂

  81. Dan Simmie says:

    Most of us on here are probably pretty active and unmovable on the question of independence.However we have to accept there are plenty of people who are in the middle.
    I heard Chris Hoy’s interview and didn’t hear anything that would be worth getting upset about.
    As a sportsman he was focused on winning medals  and while I would have preferred he won for Scotland he didn’t and thats it. I’m a big fan of cycling but I didn’t cheer when he won I was completely neutral and had an admiration for all involved.If he had been riding next year for Scotland that would have been different.
    What it really proves is that the unionists will crawl in any gutter to have a go ,we can’t make it easy for them.

  82. Robert Bryce says:

    I can’t be arsed with the MSM now. I haven’t read a paper or even watched the BBC news in weeks.

    Wings & the internet is now my window to the world.
    Don’t get worked up about the media. There’s many people I know who aren’t remotely interested in the referendum yet. The unionist media are just pissing in the wind at the moment.
    Next year the real battle to bring democracy back to Scotland begins. That’s when our vastly superior “feet on the street” will wipe the floor with the media.

  83. Dee says:

    @handandshrimp
    was a bit of a washout wasn’t it. Oh how we laughed. I always thought Lizzie had the power to get the rain to stop. Must have been a myth.

  84. Bugger (the Panda) says:

     
    Red Squirrel says:
     
    30 May, 2013 at 4:34 pm
    @The Main in the Jar
     
    Vellofello and Wee Folding  Bike might disagree there?

  85. Barontorc says:

    Get a grip guys. Do you really think you know Chris Hoy’s mind? One things for certain if he gets a whiff of the speel that’s posted on here about him – do you think that will endear him and make him go for Scotland. Has he said one caustic (Del Amitri) thing about independence? No, so where all this phlegm coming from?
     
    Don’t worry about Chris Hoy, worry about your brothers in arms here who will have a vote, worry about the UK media that’s ramping up this stupidity for Chris, convince the dim-wits, who don’t even know what day it is, that their vote counts and they’re sure as hell gonna get a right slap on the back of the head if NO gets it and lets the UK run riot.
     
    Chris Hoy is an exceptional athlete who feels he has done it all and is now past his peak form. Jeez, give the guy a break!

  86. muttley79 says:

    I agree with you Barontorc.  He has a right to his opinion.  Shooting off at it makes ourselves look bad.  This kind of a thing will not win over doubters.

  87. Albert Herring says:

    I’m sure no-one is suggesting that people who intend to vote No are ("Tractor" - Ed)s in any way. Those in positions of authority who deliberately lie to their compatriots, for their own financial and career advantage, however…..

  88. Dcanmore says:

    Chris Hoy will be 38yo by the time of the Commonwealth Games, a fair chance he will not win a gold medal. I’m sure he decided to retire a winner rather than ‘being draped’ in a Saltire as a loser! That’s the way I see it. He went out on top and as an athlete in his late 30s surely time was running out quickly for him to remain on top of his game, and that is the actual competition never mind the punishing regime to keep himself fit enough at that level.
     
    As far as any comments Hoy made, I really don’t care. He’s not the enemy, it’s the exploiters from the British State and their compliant MSM that are the real enemy. Susan Calman was the experiment, now the Chris Hoy controversy, and then others to come, more and more desperate tales of cyber-nattery. These bastards think they’ve got a bone and they are not going to let go of this one because they know somebody somewhere will make a rude comment about a ‘celeb’ on twitter or wherever (even if they make it up themselves) and that is enough to boak up a 600-word story hammering the FM/SNP/Independence supporters, because that bullshit passes as journalism in Scotland today. Better Together will be polling again to see if this has made the impact they are looking for.

  89. HandandShrimp says:

    Barontorc
     
    Isn’t that the point though? Most of the offensive stuff seems to have come from No supporters putting words into Yes supporters mouths and then the press reporting it as if we had said these things. I certainly don’t have any ill will towards Hoy but I do think we need to discuss why the facilities are so poor in Scotland. We certainly aren’t Better Together in that respect so there seems to be a logical failing in the argument.

  90. YesYesYes says:

    @Norsewarrior,
     
    Yes I’m sure Hoy retired from competing just so he wouldn’t have to drape himself in the saltire and get a medal presented to him by what will be a ubiquitous Salmond at the Commonwealth Games!”.
     
    Like you, I’m not sure of that either, but I am confident that it’s more complicated than “just” that. It’s difficult to believe that the politics of this decision may not have been a deciding factor. Unless that is, you believe that there is no connection between politics and sport and that athletes, particularly leading athletes of countries are politically neutral.  I’m also sure that, as Hoy himself has stated, this was a difficult decision for him. He is getting on and although he’s still supremely fit, perhaps he had doubts about whether he could maintain his intense training regime even though, by his own admission, he’s an “extremely competitive guy”.
     
    The point I’m making is that I wouldn’t doubt any of these things. But when Hoy, as he surely would have (he strikes me as an intelligent and thoughtful person), factored in the politics of the Commonwealth Games and its proximity to the independence referendum, I suspect that he didn’t want to be associated with what would be widely perceived as a gift to the Yes campaign (the Commonwealth Games finishes some six weeks before September 18th 2014), and that this might have been the factor that swayed his final decision.
     
    After all, Hoy will be aware how intense the debate on independence is at present, some sixteen months before the vote. That being the case, he will surely have reflected on the greater intensity, heightened tensions, political sensitivities etc that will be evident in the debate at the beginning of August next year. Against this, the sacrifice of a possible gold medal in the Commonwealth Games doesn’t strike me as a high price to pay for someone like Hoy, given the political capital that’s at stake.   
     
     
    The other point I was making is that I’m not convinced, had it been the London Olympics that were being held next year, that Hoy wouldn’t have participated. As a No voter, he would have been much more comfortable to be associated with the politics of that event. That, and the fact that, for Hoy, a home Olympics is clearly a much bigger sporting event than a home Commonwealth Games, leads me to suspect that, in that event and for these reasons, Hoy might have motivated himself to make one last big effort for the Olympics. But, of course, we’ll never know.       

  91. Jim Mitchell says:

    The remarks attributed to YES supporters were to say the least very convenient timing wise for the NO’s, a bit of pre-planning i think!
    I also wonder if the fact that the unionists are ramping up the racist angle as well as the insult from NAT’s bit, means they are running out of nonsense on the economic and social aspects of staying in the union, at least for now, I also can’t help thinking that today’s rubbish although included in Tory as well Labour papers has all the stamp of Labour about it and that maybe it might be something to do with their Forward with Labour crew trying to show their helpers how clever they are, especially as they haven’t done anything else yet. It’s about their level!

  92. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    Chris Hoy’s rationale was pathetic. Who really gives a toss about an Independent Scotlands prospects in the Olympics. Athletes compete for their own benefit anyway.
    I suspect the MSM picked up on the his illogical comments and decided they had to make a bigger issue out of it.

  93. Vronsky says:

    Hoy is entitled to his opinion on independence, and he has substantive reason for it.  He, personally, is better off if he can compete as a part of the GB industry.  His position is perfectly rational – he has a positive case for the Union, albeit it only applies to one person.  Which of us is such a sturdy moralist as to behave differently were we in his position?  (Tell the truth, now).

    As Rev Stu wisely says, the issue is not Hoy’s opinion, but the media prominence it has been given. He’s been Calmaned*. 

    *Calman (v): incite a well-known but politically naive person to express a view convenient to the machine.  See also useful idiot q.v.

  94. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Do you really think you know Chris Hoy’s mind?”

    I don’t care. The article isn’t about Chris Hoy. Has everyone lost the ability to read this month or something?

  95. Joybell says:

    Rev Stu 
     
    Don’t include me in your “everyone” cos I did remind somebody that the thread is about media bias.
     
    Do I get a gold star?

  96. Vronsky says:

    I want a gold star too!

  97. Vronsky says:

    ‘sturdy moralist’ is a quote by the way.  Kudos to the first to source it (Google not allowed).

  98. Bugger (the Panda) says:

     
    Un Écossais doit être un moraliste très robuste qui n’aime pas l’Ecosse mieux que la vérité.

  99. Gizzit says:

    I suppose my concern about all this is that the harangues and the one-sided coverage in the mainstream press leads to frayed tempers and immoderate language.
    It does noone any good to reduce things to a slanging match.
    It has been demonstrated recently that social media isn’t a consequence-free circus – let Ms Calman, Mr Hoy and even Mr Boyle take legal recourse.
    Meantime, my attitude will be: Proof & Prosecution, or STFU.
     
     

  100. The Man in the Jar says:

    I don’t think that the original article is much about Chris Hoy or anyone else. It is about the constant drip, drip of anti independence negativity in the MSM. Chris Hoy is only an example of how wide the MSM will cast its net in search of the elusive “cybernat” in an attempt to demonise ordinary folk with a computer, half a brain and an informed opinion. Lets focus on that for now.

  101. Caroline Corfield says:

    perhaps we should open a sweepstake on who will be ‘selectively’ quoted next. I’m trying to think of famous Scots not openly on one side or the other yet (an essential I think to the tactic currently being developed by the MSM) but willing to be interviewed on the topic, and guaranteed to be be vague enough that it can be spun. Seems to be Sports and Entertainment where they are currently trawling for people, since they fit the bill rather nicely. 

  102. Caroline Corfield says:

    Oh no, too late! http://www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/shorts.html

  103. ScotFree1320 says:

    Just found the Frankie Boyle story on the Glasgow section of STV’s online news.  It’s scant on detail, but it’s there.

    http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/227375-comedian-frankie-boyle-targeted-in-threats-investigated-by-police/

  104. WelshIndie says:

    Welcome to the Britnat & Britprop Establishment onslaught. We get this ten times worse here in Wales, and not just as an onslaught or offensive, but as an everyday flood-feed. They’ll do anything to stop us gaining a political dimension to our national identity – lest we dare follow Scotland’s lead…
    BBC Wales news (Wales Today) is lust a Brit propaganda machine, nothing else.
    Anyway, at least you guys are better organised to counter it than we are. Good luck. March on Scotland!

  105. Vronsky says:

    @buggerthepanda
    Beautifully put.

  106. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I cheated and googled it but used google.fr and it gave me this.

  107. tartanpigsy says:

    http://ericjoyce.co.uk/2013/05/the-word-cybernat-is-for-losers/
    interesting wee read this, maybe tells us a bit about the ‘why’ of whats going on.

  108. Peter says:

    Sir C Hoy turned his back on Scotland in 2010 and chose to ride in the mickey mouse European championships for team murdoch rather than for HIS COUNTRY at the Commonwealth Games.   
        David Millar and Mark Cavendish competed at Delhi.  Many Australian and NZ World medallists competed but Hoy chose to rest up for a championship which is normally treated as an under-age event.
         Facts are facts. he is a SPORTING TRAITOR.   Just like any of those half-wit soccer goons who reject their country.  No other word is appropriate.
       I got banned, again, by the bbc for pointing out that a man who denies the existence of his own country has lost the right to describe himself as Scottish.  There has to be a Scotland for you to be a Scot, otherwise you are just north british or worse.
       
      
     

  109. Chic McGregor says:

    @Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    30 May, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    ““Let’s not go down the Godwin’s law route please.”
    I agree, but it’s a smidge ironic from someone using the name “Norsewarrior”.”
     
    Could the clue be in the first two letters?

  110. Taranaich says:

    I’m sure no-one is suggesting that people who intend to vote No are ("Tractor" - Ed)s in any way.
     
    I disagree emphatically, Mr Herring. I certainly don’t think anyone’s accusing them of treason in the eyes of the law, but for the common definition of ("Tractor" - Ed) I think a case could be made for someone voting against the political autonomy of their nation to fit the definition.
     
    The problem is that “("Tractor" - Ed)” is a word that’s highly emotive and confrontational, and implies a deliberate and malicious act against a group’s interest: the reality is that one can easily be duped into commiting treason of some sort, even when they think they’re doing good. It’s no surprise “("Tractor" - Ed)” has become a dirty word, because why wouldn’t it be? Any nation or government is threatened by any action against the state, so treason is inflated into a mortal sin, greater and more heinous than any crime.
     
    Of course, the terms could easily be applied to nationalists. If any unionist accused me of being a ("Tractor" - Ed) to the British Crown, I would wear it as a badge of honour.

  111. Kate says:

    Little bit concerned at opinions expressed here that someone not being a native speaker of Scots or Scottish English means they must be a Unionist troll – there are plenty of us raised elsewhere and speaking accordingly who are proper actual Indy supporters.
    Great article, shame about some of the comments.

  112. David Lee says:

    Let’s also ignore Andy Murray having to go to Spain to train, eh?
    Obviously in a separate Scotland the Spaniards would ban him from their country out of sheer malice. That’s the way it works, isn’t it?

  113. Chic McGregor says:

    @Yesitis says:
    30 May, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    “Chic McGregor
    Spot on.
     
    The sun`s just come out over the northern suburbs of Dundee. I feel a lot better.”
     
    There was a video made some time ago based to a large extent on an early (but larger in scope than the Dos and Dont’s extract) version of the ‘British Unionist’s Handbook’.

     
     



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