Notes from the madhouse
The people (of England) have spoken, and their elected representatives are freaking out all over the shop.
Several senior Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs have openly called for the result of a democratic referendum to be overturned by Parliament against the wishes of voters. The Prime Minister has quit, the Chancellor is expected to follow on Monday, and half of the Labour shadow cabinet is apparently doing it as we speak, after Jeremy Corbyn fired Hilary Benn for planning a coup.
(Apparently including Ian Murray, the shadow Scottish Secretary who’s also the only Scottish Labour MP at Westminster, putting the party in the farcical position of having to find itself a spokesman on Scottish affairs who either sits in an English or Welsh seat or is an unelected lord.)
Labour MPs are also demanding Corbyn’s head, in essence for the crime of his being hugely popular with the party’s membership for reflecting the old-fashioned left-wing ideology and views that they actually believe in, rather than the “moderate” neo-Tory position of Blairite parliamentarians. Corbyn shows no sign of going.
Two opinion polls, meanwhile, suggest that support for independence has taken the lead in Scotland, where Nicola Sturgeon is quietly and calmly making arrangements with senior European officials to hold discussions about ways to keep Scotland in the EU – with the backing of Willie Rennie just in case any of the talks take place on a bouncy castle or a slide.
(The Daily Telegraph, which we must assume has been chatting to Alistair Carmichael again, is reporting that Sturgeon has joined the Tories and turned gay.)
It’s been suggested that the Scottish Parliament could in fact block any attempt by the UK to leave (though it seems unlikely). Britain faces a future without Milky Way Magic Stars. UK politics, to put it mildly, is in chaos. So what the hell’s going on?
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1. THE UK MAY NOT ACTUALLY LEAVE THE EU
First principles: it’s far too early to discount the possibility that the referendum result WILL be overturned. Referendums are not legally binding, and there are several routes by which Parliament may simply choose not to heed this one.
(We invite readers in passing to imagine the reaction in the media if Alex Salmond had responded to the indyref result by proposing that the Scottish Parliament simply ignore the result and declare independence anyway.)
There are numerous precedents in recent European history for awkward referendum outcomes either being ignored or simply resulting in more referendums being held until the desired result was achieved.
However, the EU itself seems to be in no mood for any faffing around this time. Having been told the UK wants a divorce, it’s not keen to have the UK hanging around the house for months and years getting in the way. It wants a clean break as soon as possible, and it’s prepared to take action to hurry it along.
Frankly, anyone who says they know how this will turn out is an idiot and/or a liar. We don’t even have a clue which UK Prime Minister will be conducting the negotiations, and that’s a somewhat important factor.
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2. SCOTLAND HAS CHANGED, AND CHANGED UTTERLY
It now seems to be all but universally accepted that there will now be a second referendum on Scottish independence. We’re not sure how it could legitimately be avoided, but see point (1) – at this point pretty much anything is possible.
What we can say for sure is that if there is another indyref, it will bear very little resemblance to the first one. Politicians, pundits, activists and public figures who were – let’s be polite about this – very firmly on the Unionist side in 2014 have either openly come out in support of independence or rowed away very fast from their previous position to give themselves some wiggle room.
The Scottish media, at the very least, will be split in the event of a second indyref. The shattered mess of Scottish Labour will be in no position to mount a major No campaign. Big business will be fighting for office space in Edinburgh, not threatening to leave. The EU itself will be bending over backwards to facilitate Scotland’s unbroken membership.
The Yes campaign would only need a swing of 6% on the 2014 result to win. The circumstances of a second vote would be enormously more advantageous. The grounds for optimism are clear.
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3. NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING
None of that is to say the outcome of any second indyref would be a foregone conclusion. Around a third of SNP supporters voted Leave, and while we suspect that for most of them an independent Scotland inside the EU would still trump one that was outside the EU but in the UK, it can’t be taken for granted.
(The arithmetic of transposing the Remain vote to a Yes one is madly complicated, even beyond the above. For example, the 62% of Scots who voted Remain doesn’t include the young people and EU citizens who were excluded from the EU referendum by the UK government, but would be able to vote in a second indyref.)
An independent Scotland inside the EU bordering a UK that wasn’t is undoubtedly a fairly complicated prospect. We can’t say with any certainty what the economic situation would be, because it would depend in significant part on at least two separate sets of negotiations – those between the rUK and the EU, and those between Scotland and the rUK.
We can’t rule out legal wrangling over a second indyref happening at all, although today’s Sunday Times suggests that the UK government wouldn’t obstruct one.
And nobody has a clue whether there would be a hard border, with checkpoints at Gretna and Berwick. (Our view is that there wouldn’t, for some compelling practical reasons, but that clearly can’t be guaranteed.)
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4. JOURNALISTS ARE STILL IDIOTS AND LIARS
Mindbogglingly, on the BBC News channel yesterday its reporter Gavin Esler blithely asserted that there had been no prospect of a hard border in the last referendum, which will have come as a surprise to anyone with a functioning memory.
Yet mindbogglingly clueless UK and Scottish political hacks have also been churning out all the same old stories about an independent Scotland being forced to join the Euro, despite that categorical, empirical falsehood having been comprehensively and utterly debunked in multiple different ways in 2014.
We’ll say this again, because it clearly didn’t penetrate the first couple of thousand times: no EU member can ever be forced to join the Euro. To join it you first have to participate in the ERM2 exchange-rate mechanism for a minimum of two years, and participation in ERM2 is entirely voluntary.
All EU member states without an opt-out have to commit IN THEORY to joining the Eurozone, but in practice that commitment is utterly meaningless, because there’s an indefinite time limit on it. (And if – as currently seems to be one plausible outcome – Scotland simply took over the UK’s membership when the rest of the country left, it would inherit the opt-out anyway.)
If another indyref is coming, everyone should prepare for another avalanche of idiocy from the UK’s broadcasters and reporters, whichever sides everyone ends up on.
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5. POLLS STILL MATTER
The EU referendum result produced the entirely predictable howling in the press that the pollsters “got it wrong” again, displaying a spectacular misunderstanding of how basic probability works.
A poll saying “Outcome X is 52% likely” is NOT saying that Outcome X is definitely going to happen. What it’s actually saying is “We haven’t got a clue what’s going to happen. You’d be as well tossing a coin.”
52-48 (which was the final poll-of-polls on the EU referendum) is in fact a statistical tie. Within the margin of error it amounts to 50-50, ie both outcomes being equally probable. Anyone who interprets it as a firm indication of a win shouldn’t be allowed to go out to the ice-cream van with a £5 note, let alone attempt to inform the nation about serious issues.
Polls are of course in any event snapshots, not predictions, as pollsters wearily try to remind everyone at every opportunity. They don’t take account of people changing their minds, as humans are wont to do, and they can’t perfectly extrapolate the views of 1000 people onto 35 million. They’re rough guides, and as rough guides they were as accurate as could ever be expected. They said it would be very close, and it was.
So if anyone tells you that polls are bunk because they didn’t precisely predict the outcomes of the EU vote or the 2015 and 2016 elections, give them a good hard slap round the face. They’re not supposed to, they never can, and anyone interpreting them that way is an absolute imbecile.
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6. TIMING IS EVERYTHING
And what that means is that polling will have a huge impact on whether and when a second indyref takes place.
Strategic logic dictates that Nicola Sturgeon should strike while the iron is hot – the time to attack is when your foe is in disarray, and the Unionist establishment hasn’t been in this much disarray for decades, if not centuries. But strategic logic will count for nothing if the polls aren’t showing a strong and consistent lead for Yes.
The independence movement needs to keep its head while all around are losing theirs. Fortunately it appears to be under the leadership of someone very much aware of that. It may not be far off, but the time has not yet come to raise the spears.
The Tories can’t blame the EU any more. Oh dear, Corbyn can’t either.
England is f*cked.
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I’m not sure what Corbyn’s crime is supposed to have been? It’s hardly his fault the Leave vote. Looks more like Labour M.Ps seizing the moment to do what they’ve always wanted to do and get rid.
And where was Hillary Benn during the referendum? He is (admittedly) a fantastic performer when calling for Middle Easterners to be killed: why wasn’t he front and center using his rhetorical abilities for the benefit of the Remain cause?
It’s not as if I still care about the Labour party, more I just marvel at what a cowardly and mendacious pack they are.
I took your invite to imagine the media reaction if Alex Salmond ignored the result of the Indy referendum and declared independence anyway. If some kind soul could help me off the floor I’d appreciate it. Send help.
If we thought Friday June 24th was bad enough
I’ve a gut feeling that the UK could be heading into the dark lands of extreme right wing future.
Why? Well before June 24th we did not think we would end up where we are now.
Currently the UK Government does not have a leader as Cameron resigned. The governing party are in fighting and no one wants to take responsibility.
We have the UK governments opposition, the Labour party now infighting and the shadow cabinet resigning en masse, including its single Scottish MP.
There are calls from Labour to have a general election
If the UK enters into a general election while there is a vacuum
of power, both in the Tories and Labour, this will create space for the likes of UKIP to make big inroads on the back of the success of leave.
The UK may end up with an extreme right wing government in which its not Boris Johnson as PM but Nigel Farage as PM, possibly through a coalition between the Torys and UKIP
Dont think it will happen? well we didnt think the UK would be leaving the EU
In the 1930’s right wing fascism rose through the vacuum created with the infighting of both left and right, in Germany
I hope I’m wrong, but all the markers are moving into place in England
As I just said on the last thread, it’s important to us that brexit happens and is not fudged now.
This situation is not without dangers for the independence movement. The EU has taken a massive hit here and may unravel very quickly.
Ian Murray now resigned as shadow Scottish secretary.
Corbyn should replace him with an SNP MP if SNP commons leader is amenable.
Labour in deeper shit than the Tories, they just don’t realise it yet.
The fact that young people and EU nationals WILL be able to vote in indyref2 says all we need to know about why a Yes vote is vital. We are a very different country ftom rUK, thankfully
What’s happened to the ‘like on Facebook’ button?
It is entirely possible that there will be a General Election in the UK before the end of the year.
It is also entirely possible that some way will be found to frustrate Thursday’s vote. This attempt is going on at the moment.
The politics in England may actually explode into anarchy and civic unrest or worse in this scenario.
It is also the fact that in the event of a General Election being held and the SNP campaigning on a single commitment – a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence – and achieving a majority of the vote on this is in fact perfectly acceptable in the terms of the UN Charter for Scotland to assume independence.
What is very clear that with our enemies in turmoil and confusion and fighting each other there never has been a better opportunity for us to move very fast to an independence decision. Ask any General and ignore the timid.
Please remind anyone speaking about border controls between Scotland and a rUK outside of the EU that it is no more difficult to pass the EU border between Sweden and Norway than it is to drive through Gretna.
Just picked up this little gem from the Guardian live feed:
‘John McTernan, the former Tony Blair adviser who is on the far right of the Labour party, has just told BBC News that Jeremy Corbyn should go. Addressing the argument that Corbyn has a mandate from the members, he said: “He did not have any mandate to be utterly useless.”
ROFLMAO!
Edward – I agree that what you say is very plausible. If a general election is called, and if many English and Welsh who voted Leave think that the Tories and Labour are trying to avoid negotiating Brexit, UKIP will gain millions more votes than they got even in GE2015.
(The arithmetic of transposing the Remain vote to a Yes one is madly complicated, even beyond the above. For example, the 62% of Scots who voted Remain doesn’t include the young people and EU citizens who were excluded from the EU referendum by the UK government, but would be able to vote in a second indyref.)
In that case the fix is in. Get as many EU nationals and EU supporting rUK citizens to move to Scotland, tout de suite!
(Only half joking.)
Tories lose an election to other Tories and today its Labour in turmoil.
What a weird wee world Westminster is…its the Skyfall “Barrel of rats” scenario and now I see why that movie was heavily based in Westminster!
Stephen Kinnock getting prime airtime…says it all really doesn’t it?
“We feel Corbyn wouldn’t win a General election”…even Nicola Sturgeon leading that mob couldn’t win an election!
Goodbye and good riddance to the lot of them. Shocking rejection of party membership wishes..the Westminster elite circle the wagons yet again.
unchillfiltered at 11.57
You are completely right. Which is why we must move quickly now and move as soon as possible onto the other compelling reasons for independence – the better country we can all see – before the EU factor becomes a possible hindrance.
We have a huge advantage at the moment on the EU issue. This may be temporary
Rev wrote:
“Nicola Sturgeon is quietly and calmly making arrangements with senior European officials to hold discussions about ways to keep Scotland in the EU – with the backing of Willie Rennie just in case any of the talks take place on a bouncy castle or a slide.”
Truly LLF, teary-eyed, what a way to start my Sunday, thanks Rev!
Counter argument to unionists….we Didn’t Leave them, they left us…
Richardinho says:
26 June, 2016 at 11:46 am
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I’m not sure what Corbyn’s crime is supposed to have been? It’s hardly his fault the Leave vote. Looks more like Labour M.Ps seizing the moment to do what they’ve always wanted to do and get rid.
It’s a classic case of those who actually caused the problem think they are the solution.
It’s a mad, mad world. 🙂
The idea that you can somehow pick and choose when democracy is applied, and that the democratic wishes of 52% of the voting UK public can be ignored is inconceivable.
What would be the point in anyone ever voting on anything ever again.
Don’t you dare have indyref2 without me 🙂
See that last paragraph?
THAT!
Heroic effort in trying to make sense of the carnage out there Rev.
In the meantime stocking up on choccy raisins, popcorn and a nice drop. The right team for a constitutional crisis are in government in Scotland and they’re on the case.
So sit back, rest, recharge those batteries, because if this goes the way many believe? We may be about to get awfy busy. 🙂
um…..
Murray Foote ?@murrayf00te 16m16 minutes ago
Listening to the FM on the tellybox and repeatedly saying to myself EU GO, GIRL
i think we need to press the reset button before relaunching yes2
i would like to echo stus call, if nos are crossing over to yes, we need to welcome them not criticise them
regardless of how much i personally loath the DR for what it did, my goal is independence for scotland. and that trumps all other considerations
I will shout this again. The labour Party will never form a government in the UK again. Is is finished. Its time has passed in historical terms. UK politics is realigning. Opposition to the Tory party will come from the right. There is in effect in UK politics two sets of sentiments now seeking formal union – the right wing of the Tory party and UKIP on one side against the centre body of the Tories and the centre body of Labour with an establishment in the background in control of both.
In historical terms the Labour party had achieved most of its goals by 1960. Since then its journey has been into the grip of the establishment as seeking power replaced seeking change as its main objective.
Tony Blair, a Tory in Labour clothing, was only the most obvious example of this. The party as a whole is destroyed by huge infiltration of the ambitious, riding on the back of sound bites and no principle.
Luigi & Richardinho
There was a report earlier that someone called D Milliband was spotted arriving at Heathrow this morning and was deeply engrossed with his phone. Remind me, is there an uncontested by-election coming up soon?
How absolutely disastrous would that be?
As you say Nicola needs to strike while the iron is hot and the Tories are in disarray.
I suggest a referendum this year before the Tories appoint a new leader. That should sort it. (Sept 18th? That would be ironic).
The pitch has to be an independent Scotland in the EU. All EU nationals in Scotland, the many thousands of 2014 no voters that voted no because they were afraid that Scotland wouldn’t be in the EU after indy, plus 16/17 year olds will surely support us.
Then article 50 can kick in and an independent Scotland Scotland and a shorn England will exchange places in the EU two years hence.
I can’t remember who it was who said that it would take England to vote for indpendence for Scotland to gain hers, but that is what looks like is going to happen. [if anyone can remember who it was I would be grateful – a friend is writing an article on it]
Finally, I think that the Tories cannot go back on the referendum now, they would be destroyed and would lose the power that they crave – probably to UKIP as Labour will still be nowhere and the Leavers, that the Tories cultivated for their own ends in 2015, will be very very angry.
Can’t believe we’re getting a second chance at this but the prospects are far far better than last time, and look what we achieved then.
Rumour is that Mundell is also going to resign as he doesn’t want to align with Boris.
I commented on that Times article. Yeah, I took out a sub to get a free iPad. That sorted my eldest’s Christmas.
I see fluffy was telling Brewer that we have to honour the English vote and leave. Luckily Nicola had me punching the air. She had Brewer telt.
Europe is watching and they see Westminster in chaos but in Holyrood it is business as usual. The Scottish Government is working and telling the EU nations we are a friend and their citizens welfare is a priority. Scotland has shown we have stable Government and they can trust us.
One_Scot at 12.14
Ireland did it. And people’s opinions change. Any more mindless idiocy from Gove or Boris on TV and the opinions that produced the result will have actually been reversed.
Which is why we have to be consistent, be determined and move fast with the massive opportunity we have now in front of us.
Everything is up in the air right now.All we know for sure is that 62% of Scots voters chose Remain a few days ago.We don’t need another referendum on the EU to continue our membership.We just need the EU to let us continue.East Germany was brought into the EU without any fuss or referendum.
We might just continue in the EU and the UK,with powers steadily being taken by Holyrood until there’s nothing much left of any political or economic consequence controlled by Westminster.Thats how NZ became independent.No referendum required.
This all might seem highly unlikely,but it’s happened in the past.Nothing can be ruled out.
You are a German teacher, Polish student or French nurse and you want to go on holiday in Europe, where do you go?
You are a North American multi national wanting to set up a base in Europe, where do you go?
What an unattractive place the uk has become?
The only benefit I see from the vote is that the uk will be too broke to renew trident.
Sturgeon Vs mundell, mundell put party and himself before country, Sturgeon put country, first above herself and party.
What a contrast between the Scottish government calm and purpose and the selfish infighting of the blue and red tories, if it has not been clear to some Scots who is best to look after their affairs, the penny will have dropped now.
I think that Nicola will do everything possible to have Scotland continue it’s membership of the EU.
If she can achieve that without detriment to Scotland there would be no need to rush for a Indyref2,and she could then pick the most suitable date to hold that ref.
We should all have complete confidence in her abilities to choose the right moment.
O/T completely(ish)
Can anyone provide me with a hi-res image of one of the OLD Yes stickers (round one, as used on cars) please?
I’ve been hunting for one in my own archive but can’t see any.
A link will suffice (and be much appreciated).
Thanks in advance.
“Currently the UK Government does not have a leader as Cameron resigned.”
That’s OK. We didn’t have one before he resigned either.
I just can’t keep up with all this excitement!
Even my tablet has temporarily closed down and needs a reboot… bit like Westminster politics 🙂
I guess Labour needs to …oh what the heck, they’re not listening anymore.
Nicola Sturgeon just grows in stature with each passing minute. Starting to look like she should be the next First Lord of the treasury. 🙂
Does Gordion Brewer ever understand word Nicola Sturgeon says?
The Sunday Toast headline today says that Yes Indy support is now at 59%
Having voted leave twice in the last two rereferenda, I could do the same again if Scotland could avoid the chinese finger trap of the euro.
Terrific summary.
It looks like Scotland will be much like the Republic of Ireland within 5 years. Other bumps on the road to indy include our madasfcuk postal votes for anyone who wants one in the UK farce. Vote registration and residency is more than vital.
Imagine a Scotland that could say to England, can you remove your nuke weapons from our country please, now!
The doors and ‘this is the end’ for vid
Breaking News! Never posted a link to anything before so hope this works!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244
Jim Thomson@12.29
Jim I don’t know where you are based but I have a couple of the stickers spare.
Not sure how to arrange getting one to you.
I have a windscreen sticker and a car body sticker.(Originals)
The clean sweep of Scottish regions for IN was so important. Even one blue area and the media would have been all over it. The Rev appreciated this quickly, when he threatened to burn down the late-declaring Aberdenshire if it spoiled the map. Fortunately, they voted the same was as the rest of Scotland, and the Rev put his flame thrower back in the cabinet. But now that Scotland is solid EU, the contrast has been seen around the world: Sturgeon has been magnificent (“We are going nowhere”). My only concern is that, as WM implodes, the rUK begs her to take control in an emergency UK goverment. Kindly decline, Nicola, you belong to Scotland. 🙂
Amazing stuff, you couldn’t make this stuff up…..I’m going to sit back with a big bucket of popcorn and enjoy.
How long before we see mandarins running naked through the streets in the City of Westminster screaming ‘We are undone!’?
It’s a Benny Hill sketch from Hell…
🙂
@ Jim Thomson
Jim, google ‘yes car disc stickers’ and you’ll get a variety through that and if you also click ‘images’ that throws up quite a selection.
_____
@ Lollysmum
I hope things are progressing well for you!
_____
And a final message to all the worried people living in England – get yer bags packed, get yer erses up here and join our cause 🙂
Step aside Clinton.
Step aside, Merkel.
A wee lassie from Ayrshire is the most powerful woman in the world right now.
What a time to be alive:)
It’s important to emphasise what Nicola is actually doing here: She is NOT calling for a new referendum: she is trying to keep Scotland within the EU in whichever way possible. This includes independence, but also preventing the UK as a whole leaving, and Scotland being a special EU region within the UK.
That’s my understanding.
As ever a very good summary.
Indy2 should be a snap referendum with the minimum of notice to minimise the grinding efforts of the BBC, biased media and project fear2.
And, there should agreement to a scare policy for our pensioners.
Nicola showing real leadership. No point in Ref2 if not sure to win it and long game might bring Labour on board.
Cant see Tories holding General Election anytime soon as that will only suit UKIP and better to have ineffective Labour Party as opposition and once Brexit achieved UKIPs potency disappears
People seem to be thinking that the Labour party’s coup d’etat attempt on Corbyn is to do with Brexit.
Its not.
Its is 100% to do with the release of the Chilcott review into the Iraq war – specifically Corbyn’s intention to apologise on behalf of the Labour party for lying to the country regarding weapons of mass destruction & waging an illegal war.
To the ultra-right wing Blairites (all “Friends of Israel” BTW) this is unacceptable and so Corbyn must be removed before he can make his statement as leader.
No surprise that this was kicked off by Hilary “bomb them all” Benn. His father would be deeply ashamed of his son were he still alive.
There are some YES (not the round ones) stickers in the SNP online shop.
http://www.snpstore.org/yes-store.html?p=1
They do have the car round stickers.
They can legally ignore their ref. Talk about dragging your heals. All this from same UKOK media that destroyed our ref 2014.
http://archive.is/u3N8o
When could it happen?
Britain’s Brexit vote does not require the government to pull the trigger immediately because the referendum is not legally binding.
The full scale of the task facing Whitehall will become clear. The UK will have to renegotiate 80,000 pages of EU agreements, deciding those to be kept in UK law and those to jettison. British officials have said privately that nobody knows how long this would take, but some ministers say it would clog up parliament for years.”
Well that was one of the best Sunday politics Scotland I have watched for a long time.
Nicola – assured,statesmanlike and unequivocally saying her decisions will always be to serve the interests of Scotland.
Fluffy – blustering buffoon who will hang on to his position regardless of Scotland. He won’t serve in a Boris cabinet …we’ll see.
Ian Murray – just resigned. To be fair he did take a side and did support the First Minister
So we have a possible outcome where there will me no Scottish MP’s in the Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet and no body looking out for the interests of Scotland ( not that the two of them ever did much anyway). Carmichael is rubbing his hands together and thinking ” this is my big chance!”
I can’t keep up. So many things happening so extremely quickly now.
And then we have our friends Iceland to gub England at football tomorrow.
Time for a lie doon.
The Tories say they need strong new leadership to take the country forward and then they say “but not me i’m resigning
The Labour party say…..the same thing but “more constructively” How do you resign constructively?
Resignations now are reaching such a level we could end up with Alistair Carmichael back as Sec of State and he’s got such a brass neck he’d take the job,or worse, prime minister, unless Willie Rennie wants the job, he might be in with a chance
The British Government now has no Sec Of state and no Shadow Sec of state
So there is in effect nobody in UK government supposedly representing Scotland
But they’re all pretty sure of one thing, SNP Baad
Lots of elderly Brits on tv delighted to get their country back. FT says
UK’s pension funding hole hits £900bn after Brexit
Deficits jumped after Britain’s surprise vote to leave the EU
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3660302/I-worried-2008-crisis-says-former-Labour-Chancellor-ALISTAIR-DARLING.html
“Suppose Scotland was to join the EU as an independent country. All new entrants have to join the euro.”
Waltz with me Darling still on about this honk and more.
Good written piece as always, Rev.
@Gary 45% 12:40
Thanks for the offer Gary but I don’t need the physical sticker, just the image file. Let’s just say there’s a wee project underway.
@Stoker 12:41
Aye, tried that and didn’t get what I needed. I’ll try a few other search terms and see what appears 🙂 Thanks
Heather McLean says:
26 June, 2016 at 12:39 pm
Breaking News! Never posted a link to anything before so hope this works!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244
I certainly wouldn’t go near that option.
It would just let the Tories off the hook and build up resentment in the leave areas of England. The last thing we need is an unnecessary fight with our near neighbours.
Far better to leave it to Westminster to decide if that’s a route they want to go down.
Given the apparent damascene conversion of the Daily Record and Sunday Mail (however long that may last) I look forward to seeing how The Scotsman, Herald, Courier and P&J react having had a few days to digest what is happening.
So let’s assume the Scottish Parliament blocks Brexit. And let’s assume in 2020 there’s a YES victory in IndyRef#2. How will we feel when Westminster then blocks our indy? Why wouldn’t they since our own parliament would have set the precedent in blocking Brexit?
The Scottish Parliament blocking Brexit will have major ramifications down the road to our own indy. We shouldn’t do it.
Emily Thornberry no talk of revolt at the meeting on Friday yet we have Ian Murray resign live on TV and said he raised doubt over Jeremy Corbyn so who are the liars not that I care.
What about Fluffy on politics show today.
@Heather McLean – and, of all people, Lord Foulkes tweet Slab should support her!
https://twitter.com/RobDunsmore/status/747023673899491329
@Richardinho
The Chilcott report is due in 10 days’s time. That’s what it’s about.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/
This is hilarious but its actually not. Same UKOK tory BBC led media that destroyed Scotland’s referendum, has kept the UK in almost total ignorance about the EU. They also monstered everything and anything EU, in conjunction with all of the above.
UKOK fourth estate, owned by a few neo fascist billionaires, in conjunction with the disastrous anti democratic toryboy failure that is the BBC. All of which can be viewed and listened to at its most condensed from the bizarre freak show in Pacific Quay.
@gus1940 12:58
I am with you on the caution. I wouldn’t trust ANY of them.
They will all be trying to a) regain “credibility” (HAH!)
and, more importantly to their owners b) increase circulation.
DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY SUPPORT
They are the toxic source of lies and misinformation that denied us our independence.
Wouldn’t be surprised if Henry McLeish is followed by the current “Scottish Labour” leadership.
The next few PMQs and FMQs and WM Scottish Questions promise to be interesting viewing.
‘So let’s assume the Scottish Parliament blocks Brexit. And let’s assume in 2020 there’s a YES victory in IndyRef#2. How will we feel when Westminster then blocks our indy? Why wouldn’t they since our own parliament would have set the precedent in blocking Brexit?
The Scottish Parliament blocking Brexit will have major ramifications down the road to our own indy. We shouldn’t do it.’
Whilst a reasonable point, I believe that it assumes a different recent past history than that which we have:
Westminster does not require any new precedent for denying the will of the Scottish people- this is what it has always done!
And yes, denying a Brexit would cause considerable anger in England, but there would also be a lot of people in England quite pleased too-including many who voted Leave! Those who would be most angry are those who already are set against us. I see no reason for trying to placate these people.
That’s my view. Point taken though that it’s a risky move, but what isn’t?
Good article Rev Stu but the speed a which things are moving its already out of date. I suspect you might need to change the site to just a twitter feed to have any chance of keeping up!
Also given what Sturgeon has just said regarding blocking the brexit the subcontext to the UK Government (if it still exists!)must be don’t even think about stopping a referendum on whatever terms we choose and any nonsense about not keeping the pound or border may be me with a UDI.
Now heard a number of interviews relating to the Brexit decision. Majority seem to be happy that they have their England (not Britain) back. So insular it is frightening. Well they are welcome to it, roll on Indyref2. Re my last post forgot to add Benny Hill to my list of unfunny english comedians.
Jim Thomson @ 12.29 I have some of the round Yes stickers. PM me on FB & I’ll send you one.
@Richardinho
For a possible answer to your question see
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/still-iraq-war-stupid/
Chilcot report will tarnish Blairites.
Moreover how many constituencies will have grass roots willing to campaign for Blairites at the next GE – and the way things are going that may be sooner rather than later.
Several people above have said that if the current band of MPs try to fudge Brexit, then the next UK government could be a UKIP one. I completely agree.
At WM you only need ~35% of the votes to take more than half of the seats.
I don’t see how Brexit can be avoided for England and Wales.
@Jim Thomson
>> Can anyone provide me with a hi-res image of one of the OLD Yes stickers (round one, as used on cars) please?
That, and variations for download here . .
http://www.indyposterboy.info/yes-window-posters.asp
Holyrood blocking Brexit!
My first reaction is that she was just shit-stirring.
But given her stately manner up to now, it seems out of character.
So is she seriously saying that Holyrood could block brexit in Scotland.
For surely she is not seriously suggesting the political catastrophe of Holyrood blocking UK brexit.
Tim Fallon is having it in his next manifesto as reversible, but we should not be going anywhere blocking it.
In the last 48 hours, Alex Massie, David Torrance, JK Rowling and even the Daily Record have all started changing their tune about independence. If SLabour follows suit (and it just might) then the only thing standing between Scotland and independence will be… Wee Ruthie and her tank!
We don’t stand a chance!
Sky News reporter says the only person with a plan at the moment is our First Minister presenter looks shocked reply no answer to that.
Go Nicola get them worried.
A perfect political storm has struck and it’s tme to find out who the good swimmers are. Bearing in mind they will have a eurocrat on their back. We live in interesting times.
I think I have just seen, what could turn out to be, the most significant moment in Scottish political history that has ever been televised.
On Sunday Politics Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon just said that the Scottish Parliament may legally block Brexit by not agreeing to the necessary Legislative Consent Motion.
Nicola is almost duty bound not to pass this legislation, in terms of representing the will of the Scottish People, who have sovereignty over the parliament.
Obviously we are a long way from there, but should it come to pass … Wowzzer!!!
Shows how fast events are happening, in that your excellent post needs updating already.
We could be on a path to a situation where the English, furiously demand Scotland is made independent.
BBC as usual trying to block anything Nicola Sturgeon says with the usual but but but you can’t you wont you dont have the legal power who the f/k is running BBC Pacific heights ? GCHQ or the right wing of the Tory party .
I think we have to be strong, and we do have to protect our self interest. This means putting everything on the table-including independence- so that we can negotiate from a position of strength. Forcing England to remain in the EU is undesirable for obvious reasons, but it may well be possible for us to remain within the EU within the UK.
Ruth has no clue what she is doing. Last heard she was off playing toy sodjers again.
When she does speak in public it’s to reiterate lines from last week showing that she’s still in a state of shock and in denial about what’s happening around her.
Speaking of things happening fast did you see how quickly Gordon Brewer lost the ability to interrupt when he interviewed Fluffy this morning? He was just fine five minutes earlier when talking
overto Nicola.Sad decline for a man that was the master of inerruptyitis.
Leaflets getting posted through doors in England comparing Poles to vermin. What a shit hole of a country.
Re Holyrood blocking Brexit. The SG must not agree to Scotland being dragged out of the EU against our will. The next step in testing what our will for the future is, would be IndyRef2.
It therefore makes sense for the SG to ratify Brexit AFTER a new Edinburgh agreement is in place for Indyref2. Thus, we can be independent before the Brexit date and it will only apply to rUK.
That is, of course, if we choose to stay behind in the EU as an independent country, and not choose to leave with the rest of the UK.
We urgently need to find a way to reach the pensioner vote and win enough of them over to supporting Independence this time.
This is something Wings readers/posters and the next grassroots IndyRef2 can all help with.
I don’t have the answers. I wish I did, and, to be frank, IndyRef1 was proof we didn’t then and why we need to prioritise this now.
So please, everyone with campaigning experience or just a good idea, try to think of how to win over the older generation of scots.
We’ll never win them all over but we do need to win enough of them over to make a real difference this time.
I agree with DMH earlier, if there was a UKGE, the SNP could make it crystal-clear it was in effect indyref2. (Maybe with only the Tories then for opposition.) And would very likely win every seat in Scotland.
Which is probably only one reason why there won’t be a UKGE. Labour are in meltdown and the Tories are probably seriously worried that UKIP would steal many seats from them.
This whole wheeze of a EUref after all was intended to put UKIP back in the box. Instead they have supercharged it.
Reservations though are in order. The backlash (=unintended consequences) is mounting. 2M+ petition for EUref2, with the added danger of a Cunningham-style minimum hurdle for indyref2. Extended delays in the hope of a change in heart before having to trigger Article 50, etc. Possibly even an EU-led fudge, “associate membership” or some other such thing.
https://twitter.com/EducatingDonna/status/747046928823779328?lang=en-gb
Given the near total disintegration of the 2 main UK political parties would now not be an opportune time to have a UK 21st Century version of Bastille Day but this time substituting The Palace of WM for The Bastille.
I just can’t see Scotland remaining within the EU without independence. There’s just too many impracticalities, not least the existing currency union.
One week ago, I didn’t think another referendum would happen for at least another 10 years, but the UK we voted to remain with is no longer there. Everything has changed. All the arguments to keep as bound together are now reasons to get out. I can’t help that feel that a window of opportunity has opened that we may not see again for some time.
It’s for those reasons that I believe that there will be a second independence referendum called in the very near future, contested on a more level playing field, and ultimately yielding a comfortable ‘Yes’ victory.
Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland resigns from the Cabinet.
I turn on BBC Radio Scotland FM to listen to their coverage, but they’re giving priority to a Serbian tennis player’s chances in a forthcoming tournament.
So I turn to BBC Radio Scotland AM to listen to their coverage, but their giving priority to a Serbian tennis player’s chances in a forthcoming tournament..
I turn on BBC Radio Scotland Digital to listen to their coverage, but their giving priority to a Serbian tennis player’s chances in a forthcoming tournament.
Almost gave meself a coronary just there, watching Adam Boulton doing a rollercoaster ride (link via WOS Twitter).
One of the funniest things of all time. Soo-perb.
Hello Nana,
Good to have you back. Hope things are on an up, then.
Re your link, I could just about see SLab folding, but the notion of the likes of Ian Murray joining the SNP? That’s hard to get one’s head around, even in these interesting times
@Major
I can’t remember who it was who said that it would take England to vote for independence for Scotland to gain hers, but that is what looks like is going to happen. [if anyone can remember who it was I would be grateful – a friend is writing an article on it]
It might well have been Tom Nairn. He certainly said it would not be the SNP (as a political party) or Scotland (as a nation) on its own which would break up Britain.
Just to be clear folks about what Nicola actually said to Gordon Brewer and the implications:
In an interview with the BBC’s Sunday Politics Scotland programme she was asked what the Scottish Parliament would do now.
Ms Sturgeon, whose party has 63 of the 129 Holyrood seats, said: “The issue you are talking about is would there have to be a legislative consent motion or motions for the legislation that extricates the UK from the European Union?
“Looking at it from a logical perspective, I find it hard to believe that there wouldn’t be that requirement – I suspect that the UK government will take a very different view on that and we’ll have to see where that discussion ends up”
When Ms Sturgeon was asked by presenter Gordon Brewer whether she would consider asking the parliament not to back such a motion of legislative consent she replied “of course”.
She added “If the Scottish Parliament was judging this on the basis of what’s right for Scotland then the option of saying look we’re not to vote for something that’s against Scotland’s interest, of course that’s got to be on the table”.
She is not ‘shit stirring’ in the slightest. She is pointing out the logical facts given the threat to Scotland being dragged out against our will. Every aspect of this has to looked at as squarely and honestly as possible. She is being utterly principled and honest in explaining the ‘facts’ of the actual legislative position we now find ourselves in.
We’re now living in a Monty Python sketch.
Any minute now there’ll be a knock at the door and it’ll be the bloody Spanish Inquisition.
@Jim Thomson: I think you will find something here
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=yes+sticker&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=BZW&channel=fs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiS1pPT3sXNAhWlCMAKHce-DDQQsAQIHQ&biw=1030&bih=612
Robert J Sutherland at 1.51
In 1992, Ian Murray was at a school which held a mock election in parallel with the General Election of that year. He stood as the SNP candidate – and won.
Forcing England to remain in the EU is undesirable for obvious reasons, but it may well be possible for us to remain within the EU within the UK.
BBC r4 news says that Holyrood cant force England to Remain. It can vote Leave but its all overridden by Westminster.
Westminster may however use Holyrood’s Remain to stay in the EU.
Could we also be looking at an intervention from Brenda?
If that happens then there will be a vote of no confidence in the Tory Government and we need to think seriously about the possibility of getting 59 SNP MP’s.
At a time of political and economic turmoil I took great solace from this. Thank you Rev Stewart Campbell.
“… with the backing of Willie Rennie just in case any of the talks take place on a bouncy castle or a slide”
Cometh the hour …
galamcennalath says:
26 June, 2016 at 1:38 pm
It therefore makes sense for the SG to ratify Brexit AFTER a new Edinburgh agreement is in place for Indyref2.
It does indeed but for more reasons than you may have thought about :
1) The English govt can delay A50 notification, “blaming” Scotland for the delay. This will give the English time to come up with a Plan A for their future;
2) The Scottish govt can apply some pressure to the EU Commission to make a quick decision regarding continuing membership for Scotland;
3) The Europeans can get an A50 trigger as fast as they want – simply give Scotland a favourable decision which in turn triggers emergency legislation on indyref2 or a UDI.
Win-win for everyone except Lizzie & her parasite inbred family but frankly we need to get rid of them too, ideally at the same time but later if necessary.
Regarding the recent con of certain BUM bandits apparently giving the impression they are for turning to our cause, Jim Thomson wrote: “DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY SUPPORT”
I cannot reiterate those sentiments enough. The BUM, led by the BBC, utterly destroyed our referendum. Hard to believe there are still so-called independence supporters who financially support these scumbags and post direct links to them etc.
Try posting direct links to WOS on their pathetic sites and see how far you get. There must be consequences for what they did to us and our country – continuing to support the BUM is hardly sending the correct message. They must be made to pay!
I’ll believe they’ve changed for the better when i see their front pages demanding and screaming for independence from their shelving vantage points in every outlet in Scotland.
NEVER TRUST THE BUM – ITS FULL OF CR@P
@Robert J Sutherland
I agree, maybe he will join the tories. He will fit in perfectly with that lot
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/747040623723745280
‘Ireland did it’
Surely that was just a case of having another referendum on the subject rather than overturning an actual clear victory and preventing the result from standing.
By all means have another referendum on the EU, but surely you would have had to have honoured the result and joined the EU before doing that.
Don’t see how the two are comparable.
Who are Labour going to put up as Shadow SoS? Lord Foulkes?
James Kay,
Thanks for that wee nugget of info. I’m gobsmacked. It seems there’s nothing that can’t happen now… =laugh=
K1 1.52
My initial reaction was that she was doing a salmon –
even though it would have seemed out of context with her other public statements.
But this ‘legislative consent motion’ is interesting.
Does this mean that the legislative bodies of Westminster, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast would ALL have to ‘consent’ in order for whoever at Westminster to start the article50 procedure?
Ah mind when ye could BUY an ice-cream van fur £5.
Thank god Scotland has Nicola Sturgeon. Poor old England has Boris and/or Nigel.
I don’t understand why so many on here think that a GE is likely? There cannot BE a GE unless 2/3 of WasteMonster MPs vote for one. We have a fixed five year GE cycle now. Have you not been listening?
Turkeys and Xmas comes to mind. It’s that likely.
RE: Bexit blocking
No, I doubt that’ll happen. Near as I can see, the times it has been raised this morning, it been by the interviewer. The FM has stated the case that legislatures have it within their power to ratify or block legislation which radically affects those legislatures, but THAT is all that has been stated.
The FM has went out of her way to state that her first port of call is talking to her cabinet, the EU, and exploring all avenues of protecting Scotland’s accrued EU rights AND THE RESULT returned from the Scottish electorate by the referendum.
THIS is why its important for folk not to fly off the handle with mad theories. THIS event has never occurred before. There is no precedent and the issues involved are on a global scale, but reach into every livingroom in these isles. The media are looking for hard and fast answers, shock headlines and a quick buck. As they see it, their job is to rattle cages to make those headlines happen. (Yeah, I know! It should be to let events happen and then report accurately the facts pertaining to those events, but that horse bolted some time ago with our media)
Long and short of it? Patience.
The last thing the Scottish government needs right now is for its own public and more specifically its own support, to apply new and interesting levels of pressure it really doesn’t need right now.
This is a hugely volatile situation right now. Sitting back and letting those we’ve placed our trust in get on with the job might be a good idea.
Though that whole sitting back thing may require enormous amounts of natracalm and Ian Bs Lambrini stash…. 🙂
It would help if Murdoch and Faradge were put in jail. Along with Blair, Brown. Benn and Ian Murray. Wait until the Chilcot Report comes out. 5 July.
Where are Johnston, Gove and Faradge to justify what they have done? They were never off the TV.
@HandandShrimp
Oh pleeeeeze let it be Foulkes. We could do with a laugh about now. 😀
So colleagues I spoke to and who I respect who voted leave are most likely facing the choice of a Blairite right wing labour party or a right wing tory party.
Their assumption was that the self destructing tory party would be replaced by a progressive labour front. It’s one hell of a gamble.
indeed, Inverclyder..
re Spanish Inquisition (sketch)
Maybe little England SHOULD – go out..and come back in again.
IMHO The establishment will NOT allow Westminster to leave the EU. Every dirty trick in the book will be used and some they have yet to think up to keep control of their “democratic” political manipulations. They will engineer Holyrood into a corner to oppose Engerland having to leave EU then blame Scotland for blocking Engerlish will to leave EU.
Then they will refuse a indiref2 and live with the consequences.
Job done, Scotland trampled again. Establishment over the moon EU over the moon Westminster back in control of the peasants. Now to punish the trouble making jocks.
I am a conspiracy theorist! Doesn’t make me a bad person, does it.
You’re right Stu,
Taking the 62% of remain voters in Scotland for granted as voting YES would be a huge mistake.
In my opinion if, when the time is right, Nicola sturgeon announces we will remain, or rejoin, in the eu, but with more favourable terms than the uk had, I believe that independence would be in the bag. If on the other hand she remains or re enters with the same conditions as we had before then things could be a bit more trickier.
Maybe EFTA would be the answer?
Heard the Indian panellists, sorry I don’t know his name, on Sunday politics say to Andrew Neil that agree with her not Nicola Sturgeon is the only leader with a plan. Neil’s face was a picture.
Ireland go one-nil up after 2 minutes.
Corbyn’s “crime” is to actually believe in a political stance for the common good. The elitist labs won’t get mega rich later in life if they can’t lobby for billionaire businessmen while in power.
We’re watching labour enact Animal Farm; a great idea ruined as those with personal objectives are allowed positions of power.
Don’t actually give a shit, but in the event of Scottish indy, I hope a constitution can be agreed which doesn’t allow donor politics, and scrutinizes politicians subsequent incomes after leaving government.
Meanwhile, with Scotland not in euro 2016, isn’t this fab fun!
Anyone else find it a little ironic that everything bad that’s befallen UK (English) politics in the past 2 years is as a direct consequence of their actions during Indy Ref.
2014 – BTs Project Fear, although winning the referendum, alienated so many voters that Scottish Labour disintegrated. The fallout of that was it became certain that the SNP would deliver a large number of MPs to WM in 2015.
2015 – All through the GE campaign the Tories used the fall of Labour in Scotland to frighten England into thinking that Ed Milliband was so weak that Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP would actually pull the strings if they voted Labour.
2015 – The Tory manifesto promised a referendum on the EU. They could do this because they never expected a majority, but their demonisation of the SNP in England worked too well and they had to deliver on the promise.
2016 – Remain needed a united front to win the EU referendum, but reflecting on the result of what Project Fear and sharing a platform with the Tories did for SLab in 2014, Labour in England were reluctant to do so. Making it a binary choice between the bad Tories and the awful Tories. The awful Tories won.
I also think lots of English voters did take notice of what happened in Scotland in 2014 regarding Project Fear. There were many sneering tweets telling us we’d bottled it because we were too frightened to go on our own. When they saw the same institutions coming up with the same threats in this referendum they just didn’t believe it.
I would assume mentioning IndyRef in WM at the moment is the equivalent of mentioning Macbeth in the theatre. 🙂
Not sure of other devolved legislative competences Mike, just Scotland’s as it’s unfolding. Let’s take heed of what Macart just expressed…we are actually is very ‘safe hands’ unlike our English and Welsh cousins right now.
HandandShrimp says:
26 June, 2016 at 2:07 pm
Who are Labour going to put up as Shadow SoS? Lord Foulkes?
Adele
Lady Mone
Dr NO
Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 25m25 minutes ago Edinburgh, Scotland
My poster is still up. It will stay there until we reverse the vote (or my wife spots it).
@Jim Thomson,
I have a vector format of the Yes logo on a round blue disc that can be resized to anything within reason with no loss of clarity. But I no longer have personal web space to store it on for a link as VirginMedia has closed them all.
I can send it to you by email if you wish. Let me know what file format suits and I can export it.
Can someone please explain the logic of Scottish government trying to block the result of the euro referendum?!how do we explain that this would be democratic, but that uk government attempts to block indieref2 would be undemocratic?! Surely now is the time for Nicola sturgeon and snp to lead us to independence. In all this chaos shes standing head and shoulders above all uk politicians, former prominent yoonies changing their minds, and early polls showing a significant shift to YES, one path, one goal independence.
Whoooaaa, that’s a lot of ‘right nows’ in my last few lines. Right now I’m making for that Lambrini stash.
Gangway!
One_Scot said:
Tim Farron (LibDem UK leader) seems to agree with you there. He has just announced that the LibDems will campaign at the next UKGE for the UK to re-enter the EU. (That will work well!)
Whatever else happens, Scotland has to stay in. Despite all the FUD (border controls etc, etc.) that is coming to try to distract us. And the only sure way to achieve that is the obvious one.
There will be a GE. It is the only way they can try to get out of it. The Tories to lose.
No Tory wants to bid for leader. The poison chalice.
Scotland had better have another Referendum before a GE or the Unionists wil try to use a GE to delay it.
From #indyref in 2014:
Interviewer: “Alex Salmond, what’s your plan B?”
Alex Salmond: “Nicola Sturgeon”.
Seems to be working …
I take your important point regarding euro Rev, but a killer for us in 2014 was indecision over currency. So, what if England says no to us using sterling?
The old ‘it is our pound too’ may not carry, and while common sense and good business would be for us to retain sterling – that may not equate in the next Westminster governments minds.
Ye really couldnae make this stuff up…worth it for light relief…the big petition, standing at 3.1 million signatures to stop the Brexit was started by a Leave far right english guy, whose petition was hijacked by Remain….
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl4IH7lWMAAh2b4.jpg:large
OT/ps..
…picked a good bad week to crack the screen on my “device” !! – on a desktop now, been able to show my voting age son around Wings on a big screen.
It is both informative and fun, to pick a random throwaway line ( e.g.”..the polls say..”etc ) from Sunday morning TV/internet and find the root of the lies, analytic failures by journalists.. and the distracting methods that are used to suppress HONEST DISCUSSION ..
The fun part, is reading BULLSHIT ESTABLISHMENT ANALYSIS being destroyed by Rev C and commenters, often with humour and in a language with MORE CULTURE AND SOCIAL AWARENESS in a semi-colon – than an entire BBC news bulletin. LOL.
The rest of the UK will need Scotland in the EU because of the economic benefits to them. Based nearest their customers. Nearest biggest market etc. The best of both for Scotland. Scotland would be £10Billion+ better off and in the EU which costs nothing and brings benefits.
Get the Independence Ref2 organised right away.
“the time has not yet come to raise the spears.”
Time to make sure the spears are sharp and their poles are sturdy… just in case, ken…
Aweright Jim Thomson.
If yer working on Yes imagery, maybe you could add the letter ‘U’ to the sticker..
Yeus 🙂
I’m on a walking holiday in Croatia, and very glad to be here, too! But I have been trying and failing utterly to understand what is going on, from the BBC etc …….until I got to a place with good wifi, and could catch up with ‘Wings..’
Lets start a petition as well.
The one to rerun the European referendum is doing well.
Petition for a single transferable vote over as many options as possible including:
In EU but not UK with euro;
In UK but not EU with pound;
In EU but not UK with pound;
Not in EU or UK with pound;
Not in EU or UK with independent currency;
In EU but not UK with independent currency;
…
Add a few more options and start a petition for a referendum.
The more options we add the more campaigns we get, the closer we get to what people want.
If Scotland doesn’t use the £ it will tank further. The rest of the UK needs Scotland in the EU and using the £.
Ian Murray should shut up. A disgrace. So should Frank Field. Another disgrace.
Sky gets it right. Ian Murray is Scotland’s red Tory MP.
The wee black book has arrived at the right time to welcome the new independence voters. A quick study guide for them to see what lies were told against the reality of a no vote.
That Sunday Post poll 59% is a RAW FIGURE, sure Don’t Knows were 4% but I don’t recall more than one poll which had Yes over 50% on raw figures.
We are in uncharted territories but the water is looking calmer and the weather balmir than predicted.
I cannot wait to get out canvassing and take the temperature of the public mood. We still have the canvas results from last time to compare.
Ken500 said:
I couldn’t disagree with that more. Who would gain from a new UKGE?: UKIP massively in England+Wales and the SNP gets the last 3 in Scotland. It would be bad enough for the Tories, but suicide for Labour in their current state. The establishment may be having a serious case of the vapours, but there is no possible result that would in any way be better for them.
No, much more likely to stall, prevaricate, encourage the Brexit2 poll, delay, let the pound sink, talk like Hammond about the need for reality in a trade arrangement with the EU, etc. etc. and hope that it finally sinks in with people what they should have worked out for themselves before voting so ignorantly the last time.
Good article on BoJo and his instrumental part in the mess.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/boris-johnson-a-talented-populist-on-the-rise-a-1099802.html
Blocking Brexit would be suicide. If successful it would mean the UK is still in the EU & Scotland has got what it voted for. Where then is the trigger for indyref2? And I want indyref2.
Apart from all the political stuff going on things are turning horribly unpleasant in the interweb world
All thing Scottish and in particular the FM are coming in for the most poisonous racism I’ve ever seen before
Although there are many expressions of admiration from the public down south the biggest part of this poison is unfortunately emanating from there
I know from the English division of my own family they’re under the impression our FM is attempting to take over their beloved England and dictate their lives
Completely and totally nuts but that’s the level of debate they seem to be having and the misconceptions they’re being fed and it’s turning an already closet racist England into something far worse
It’s as if they don’t recognise their country’s in any trouble and what was before the fault of the EU is now Scotland’s fault so have decided to hate everybody even more and it’s all still being fuelled by the Brexiters from all parties not just the usual UKIPPER suspects
I don’t like it
You’re out of date Inverclyder @ 1:54.
Gibraltar has already had a knock at the door from the Spanish Inquistion. I don’t think they were expecting it,…. at least not quite so soon.
ahundredthidiot,
There wasn’t really indecision over the currency, more’s the pity. But your basic point stands. The attempt to minimise transition through a currency union put the case right into the hands of the Unionists, who exploited it ruthlessly (and mendaciously). But it doesn’t need to be like that.
As others have already pointed out several times, there’s nothing whatever in principle to prevent Scotland retaining the pound as its currency, just as we could use the US dollar or even the Chinese renminbi instead if we chose. (Or even the euro, dare I say!)
Whether retaining a sinking pound as the currency is the optimal practical solution is another question, however. Personally I think we should opt for our own. (And call it the Scots Merk, as it used to be. Which might even amuse the Germans!) Link it very short term (a year, say) to the pound for ease of transition.
Much talk of the constitutional, political, and economic fallout from what has just happened … and it has only just begun.
Perhaps more importantly what is it going to mean For English society? This referendum was allowed to descend into a vote on immigration. People who are anti immigration, anti immigrant even, believe they have just won. The loony fringe of xenophobic nationalism is going to start calls for repatriation, never mind reductions in arrivals.
I’ve heard several stories floating around about people being challenged in the street with jibes like “bags backed yet?”
The ultra right of UKIP and Tories may have unleashed a monster. Westminster need to get on top of this aspect, and quickly.
@K1 says:1:52 pm
Just to be clear folks about what Nicola actually said to Gordon Brewer and the implications:
It was clearly a setup to try and get a headline. I doubt that Gordon Brewer is a constitutional expert yet he asked about the legislative consent procedure and she, if memory serves me correctly said she hadn’t read it. Brewer then magically produces the document from under his clipboard. So what are Nicola’s options, agree as she did, that she would not sign it. Headline “Sturgeon to block brexit.” Or she could say she would sign it, headline “Sturgeon backs brexit”. Oldest trick in the book.
The fact that Fluffy Mundell was in the same studio at the time this magic piece of paper found its way under Brewer’s clipboard has nothing to do with trap Brewer set, aye right! Brewer is an ultra yoon and not to be trusted!
The Tory didn’t win the last election – Electoral fraud. 29 seats – 12 majority. They are even less likely now to win the next one after this havoc. Westmister will want to have another election – especially the Tories. So they can get out of it. Westminster Unionists are cowards. Johnston, Gove, Farague are fininished. They have lost all credibility. Where are they?
Sky are lying about Nicola/Scotland.
Breeks @ 2:42pm
That was unexpected.
Had heard they already knocked the door though.
Also hearing that a challenge to Kezia is expected any time soon. Her wittering Twitter has been silent for 23 hours.
ahundredthidiot @ 2.23pm said: says:
“So, what if England says no to us using sterling?”
That is not within England’s gift and not just because ‘it is our Pound too’ but because as a traded currency any country could use it if it chooses to do so without any formal agreement.
But then sceptics might say that pro-indy people would say that anyway. So here is something from an organisation I really never thought I’d link to: the Adam Smith Institute – hardly a proponent a progressive Scotland.
This right wing, libertarian think tank has offered a view on why an independent Scotland COULD use the Pound if it wishes without entering a currency union with the rUK. It goes further and argues that Scotland SHOULD as it would be advantageous to do so.
With certain caveats in terms of banking reform – it refers to “adaptive sterlingization” – the ASI paper states: “There is ample evidence from history and economic theory that an independent Scotland would not suffer from being outside a currency union with the rest of the United Kingdom.”
(Source: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/56eddde762cd9413e151ac92/t/56f71f2fecb92886bb6cfe45/1459035956886/ScotlandSterlingPaperPress.pdf )
My main point here, ahundredthidiot, is to show that despite what the Better Together campaign sought to imply in 2014, Scotland does have credible options on currency that are not reliant on permission from an rUK government.
Wow. This is big time history we are all watching; the real stuff which will be written about for centuries and taught in schools long after all of us are gone.
Who’d have thought the day would ever come that London would even be just contemplating quasi independence from England? That’s just off the scale! England, partitioned off from its Capital??? Surely that won’t happen. There have been civil wars about much lesser things. And yet…
And to what will historians attribute the cause of this chaos? Intolerance of immigration and rejection of European citizenship, in the seat of an Empire which once plundered the globe and colonised one nation after another. If ever a country needed therapy…
All I can do is take a deep breath and see what happens next… It is compulsive viewing, not for the drama, but the expectation that Scotland will somehow emerge from this as a dignified, independant country which has steered her own steady path clear of imminent crisis with oor ane wee lass from Irvine at the helm.
Immigration in Europe is caused by Westminster, (France, US) bombing the Midde East to bits for years. Supporting apartheid States and absolute, despot monarchies.
There are 1.5Million unemployed in the UK. 3/4Million getting benefits, (low)
Pop 62.5Million. Scotland is half empty. The UK is not overpopulated. (pro rata). London S/E is congested because of Westminster economic policies but has higher employment. Voted to remain.
Westminster/Unionists have lied for years and blamed the EU for their failings and are reaping what they sow.
Re the Corbyn Labour debacle, I have read via Craig Murray that the heckler at Pride was a set up by an activist. Also, with the Chillcot report out on 6th July if Blair is found responsible Corbyn still intends to have him charged with war crimes. They will want him out before he gets opportunity. Labour leader would obviously carry more weight than back bencher.
Brewer and Smith are finished, their programmes are coming off. No audience. They talked themselves out of a job.
Sky are lying about what Nicola said.
It’s clear that the brexiteers had no plan in place if they won. It’s also clear that it’s unimaginable that there wasn’t a plan in place if Scotland tried for a indyref2. As far as I’m concerned it has already swung into action. I would urge caution and double check every high profile convert and newspaper poll showing we are miles ahead.
We rush into this and as soon as Nicola sets a date for a referendum the newspapers and enlightened ones will change right back. I hope I’m wrong.
Almannysbunnet,
I think Fluffy fell into a trap there too. In pandering to the English yahoos and claiming that Holyrood doesn’t have the power, he’s making the case for indy all too crystal clear. The man is clearly way out of his depth.
I’ve said it already, but I’ll say it again, I’m wondering if the EUref result for Scotland is what the execution of the Easter Rising rebels was for Ireland, the one singular badly-misjudged event that changed everything, and changed it irrevocably.
As for the extreme English reaction, as rightly lamented by galamcennalath, it increases the momentum for a split. Events are taking over, and management of them is probably becoming impossible.
I have always felt that the clean break offered by indyref1 was the best option, and that a later split would necessarily be rougher and more acrimonious, and so it seems to be turning out, alas.
Och I know Almanny, my point is not to get into the ‘narrative’ and ‘fall for it’, this is precisely, as you point out what the whole aim of this is…to ‘shit stir’. It’s still same old divide and conquer shit that we are witnessing…that’s not gonnae stop.
My point was to place the thing in it’s actual context. She was asked and if as you say she didn’t have it front of her then even more credit to her in answering in as coherent and honest a way as she did. We know they are ‘twisting in the wind’ and want to find any means to undermine our government and create soundbite dog whistling headline’s to encourage further division in Scotland. There are exactly the same forces at work in our Scottish MSM as down south in this regard.
They are the shit stirrers, not Nicola Sturgeon.
Hi Nanna great to see you back…..just in time too
Hope you are keeping well.
Frank Field along with a embarrased Scottish Labour MP just spouted the biggest load of pish regarding Scotland’s economy not unlike Corbyns wee rant on SKY news they have since omitted Franks wee vote winner for the SNP .
Jim Thomson
These are high res
http://s3.spanglefish.com/s/26697/documents/new-windows/still-yes.jpg
http://s3.spanglefish.com/s/26697/documents/new-windows/a3_moreyesthanever.jpg
They just need a little tweek in photoshop or something similar.
Dont forget to click on image to enlarge before downloading.
If you are worried about copyright enfringement it would be easy enough to create it in Photoshop/Gimp from scratch. A #3f83c2 circle with a big YES on it. The font looks like Arial Black.
https://www.gimp.org/
No need to pay £100’s for Photoshop Gimp is free.
Thanks for the link stewartb, although i do think the landscape has shifted in terms of that was written when all of UK was in the EU.
The new dynamics may change things or they may not, and while I completely agree with your closing point, back in 2014 though, many people just weren’t convinced we had the question answered.
Members of Labour’s shadow cabinet,are resigning in their droves. Labour backbenchers are supporting their claims of Corbyn not being Prime Minister material.
It’s not, as they claim, because of Jeremy Corbyn, but because they’re crapping themselves the Tories are about to call a general election before the Brexit negotiations begin, and these backstabbers are terrified they’re about to be thrown off the gravy train.
They’re going for a vote of no confidence in Corbyn. If the ordinary members re-elect Corbyn, I hope he’s got the balls to deselect the lot of them.
Until and unless Nicola comes back from Brussels/Berlin with a green light telling us we are in, and if we vote for Independence we will still be in, then we are all just speculating.
It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the EU itself may implode in the next few months as a direct consequence of this Brexit. We may not have an EU to stay in.
Nicola is being extremely cautious and extremely clever. She is playing high stakes here and she knows it. If she gets this right she will be remembered forever in Scotland’s story. If she gets it wrong, her career is toast too.
I think it looks like Master Alec has taught her well the ways of Jedi.
We will be better placed to discuss all these scenarios next Sunday.
hello Liz g
Seeing on twitter they are out to oust kezia. Gings who wants the job and who is capable?
https://twitter.com/OwenThompson/status/747056125305032704?lang=en-gb
How about appointing Boris and his chums (Michael and Ian) go to Brussels to negotiate the Brexit terms.
Regular reports to Westminster on points agreed to be discussed/debated in the HoC.
Cameron to stay on as caretaker Prime Minister. Legislation etc to be kept to a minimum for the duration.
a very confused LOKI on independence live just now saying immigration is only a perception in the mind aye ok son now back to the student union .listened for about two minutes Thats about as much as i could stand christ and he is allowed out unattended .
There will not be another Tory Gov for years. What a bunch of ‘Pycho bastards’. it is just unbelievable. The Labour rats desert the sinking ship.
Cheers Muttley.
I will have a look around for what Tom Nairn said.
nana,
SLab, the gift that keeps on giving.
I wonder if there’s soon even going to be a party to lead!
Robert Graham said:
Well, well. Who knew? =laugh=
Hey Labour great time for a ‘coup’ deflecting all the shit away from the Tories re what is happening post brexit vote ….Tories in turmoil , Leave having no Brexit plan ready and they are denying what they said in their leave campaign on the promised £350 million NHS funding , immigration controls etc.( Let’s also not forget the Tory election fraud in all this deflecting Brexit hysteria)
But hey Labour I hear the Tories are awfully gratefully to you for bestowing some respite at this extremely difficult time for them politically and also kindly giving them some much needed time to generate some spin on all of chaos they have created.
Plus Keiza is carping from the sidelines…..awaiting HQ instructions as to how/what/when/why/where/which.
The Ruth Davidson party leader Ruth Davidson is well just doing what she does best…..talking shit.
ps. Andy Burnham must feel a right muppet accusing Nicola of opportunism re announcing possible indyref…..but then Labour always adhere to the mantra ‘Do as I say not as I do’…eh Andy.
It will be interesting to see if there is a significant movement of people between Scotland and England prior to indyref2. Lots of “nice” people might well be thinking of moving north now to be part of a caring society instead of a xenophobic one. Businesses too.
@Colin Dunn 1:22pm
Thanks. I’d forgotten about indyposterboy. Good call.
@Anne Lawrie 1:15pm
Offer appreciated. It’s not the physical thing I need it’s the image file.
@Fran Leach 1:57pm
Ta much. Not looked there yet but will do.
@Xaracen 2:17pm
Thanks for the offer. I’ll see if the indyposterboy ones will do first (one of my sons is trying to do something worthwhile with the images) and if we need better quality files I’ll be back in touch.
There might have been others offering links/help too, and so apologies if I’ve missed you.
Here’s the basics on legislative consent motions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Consent_Motion
And the info from the Scottish Government site.
http://www.gov.scot/About/Government/Sewel/KeyFacts
Given nothing has happened yet legislatively, it does seem ‘strange’ that this was raised in the interview.
But kudos to the First Minister for going straight to the heart of it.
Why would Holyrood consent to any brexit inspired legislation – whatever that might be – affecting Scotland when Scottish voters rejected brexit?
Interestingly, BBCNews are now trailing this as a suggestion of the Scottish Parliament blocking brexit in Scotland –
whereas their news headlines story is still reporting it as a suggestion of blocking UK brexit.
From the anti Scottish independence tory that farted Vote Nob Orders in to the debate 2014. Wonder how his Flowers of Union are doing these days
http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/eu-referendum-is-eu-a-force-for-good-or-stranglehold-1-4139157
“Another of the three pro-Brexit campaigners at the debate was Malcolm Offord, Chairman of Badenoch & Co which invests in emerging Scottish manufacturing companies. He questioned whether membership of the EU had made some businesses “lazy” with many emerging markets in Asia in Latin America remaining untapped,
Mr Offord said: “Did the EU just make us a wee bit lazy? My organisation was set up for emerging markets, not just Europe. I don’t have faith in the EU in the next 20 years.”
So at least that’s one happy border hating border builder, who wanted no Scottish border but now has at least 20+ EU borders to climb over.
How this one tory twit got BBC and Gavin Esler to hand over days of blanket BBC 24 coverage to Offord’s fake vox pop vote Noborders.com, we’ll never know but it was bloody cheap PR/political corruption/very nice of the fraudster Beeb to help Malky out.
EU ref night had BBC chats with Brexiteer funders and one had paid Brexit £6 million, just like that. Or A lot more than what Offord paid for vote Noborders.com, although Gavin Esler and the BBC blanket coverage was probably priceless.
A toryboy shyste is a toryboy shyste basically, UKOK or Brexit.
Don’t want to repeat anything, so Ill try and be original.
On blocking Brexit, my English FB pals were nearly crying with relief ‘I love that woman’ ‘ A lifeline’.
I said, well just wait 30 mins, and I’ll post a media report, going tonto at sweaties thwarting English democracy, which I duly did.
Poor things. I said, this is the norm, Scotland is not wanted. Then they had the petition news – it’s being investigated as to whether it’s internet bots signed it.
Secondly, yesterday, an English FB friend shared a compendium of tweets and FB posts, of all the disgusting incidents around the country, since the vote .
Some were minor personal upsets,like kids crying cos their mum is Spanish. Others were horrendous. People being surrounded on the street, by chanting thugs to go home. Nasty incidents perpetrated by elderly people telling foreign people they need to be packing.
67 incidents in all, many reported to the police. This behaviour has now been legitimized by Brexit, they have no idea what they have given life to, and I want no part of that country.
Frankfurter Allgemeine Sunday 26th June
From Continental Europe already get the first invitations. The CDU MEP Gunther Krichbaum has called for an early launch of Scotland in the EU. “The EU will continue to consist of 28 Member States, because I expect a renewed independence referendum in Scotland, which will be successful”, the chairman of the Committee on EU Affairs said in parliament. “A request for inclusion of the EU-friendly country we should respond quickly.”
@Robert Graham
That lads got issues. Now is not the time to shout -look at me.
The radical Left should be talking about getting ready to muck in, and get this country out of a shithole.
Jim Thomson
I thought I would dust off the Photoshop and see if I could create a a high res sticker.
Here it is:
https://db.tt/HZEu2NM8
I thought that was a flowchart to explain UEFA group qualification rules at first.
In a way, I suppose it does.
Wow! These must be the interesting times the Chinese talk about.
I simply can’t believe it but delighted the FM is the only one who knows what to do. Is Kezia for the push because Slab are going to come out for Indy (hence Angry Murray’s resignation)?
Total Establishment meltdown and, boy, is it enjoyable.
I’m sure Bojo never thought Leave would win but imagined Cameron would be wounded by quite a narrow victory and then he could step in. Now he’s appalled at the mess they’ve got into and has done a runner.
The PM’s job is a real poisoned chalice.
Chalice? I hear you ask. Like this one?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ9f2rnjB84
Wow!
I’m dizzy! I can’t keep up with everything that’s happening.
All Labour are doing is diverting away from the Tories. Their mates. Useless. All in it together. Cameron will have Benn on redial.
Stuart what a brilliant choice of song. Absolutely sums up the horrendous situation.
A total void in relation to the leadership in England. The £ tanking and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Osborne, gone AWOL. England dragging its bare (Leave) feet. Brussels with size 12 steel toecapped boots on saying ”get out ASAP”. The EU in a state of flux. Philip Hammond saying next PM will have to make clear where they stand on the trade-off between controlling migration and retaining single market access, EH! Bojo not too keen on being PM now. Frightened he’ll be strung up like his Turkish great-grandfather, Ali Kemal? Blair saying Brexit is a disaster. Bomber Bliar who created the situation (fear of fleeing immigrants) that led to Brexit as depicted on Farage’s poster. Corbyn taking the brunt of Tory austerity measures / racist propaganda. Corbyn supporters protesting on the streets now (deary me .. not looking good). The Corbyn Coup being used by the BBC to detract from the Brexit Botch-up. Iain Murray, south, resigning because he has no faith in Corbyn as a Leader. Dugdale, north, supporting him even although she was agin him pre-election. Wee Willie Winkie showing he knows what side his bread is buttered on. Ruth Davidson in (4 day) retreat with Tomkins advising her re. ‘Nat slaying’ inciting harrasment situation and the Daily Liar considering telling the truth in future, lol. The (my) mind boggles to the point that I’m thinking of heading down south to the asylum for much needed psychiatric treatment.
Bottom line is England is in total meltdown mode. Jings, crivens, help ma boab. Meanwhile north of the border level-headed Nicola Sturgeon is steering a steady course with her loyal crew right behind her. Scotland a haven of normality will welcome all sane individuals fleeing from the asylum.
………………………………………………..
”I see a clinic full of cynics
Who want to twist the peoples’ wrist?
They’re watching every move we make
We’re all included on the list
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
No nuclear, the cowboy told us
And who am I to disagree
‘Cause when the madman flips the switch
The nuclear will go for me
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
I’ve seen the faces of starvation
But I just can not see the points
‘Cause there’s so much food here today
That no one wants to take away
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
Take away my right to choose
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
Take away my point of view
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
Take away my dignity
Take these things away from me
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
Take away my family
Take away the right to speak
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
Take away my point of view
Take away my right to choose’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtR771uBkGY
…………………………..,
Welcome back Nana xx
Breeks says:
26 June, 2016 at 2:42 pm
You’re out of date Inverclyder @ 1:54.
Gibraltar has already had a knock at the door from the Spanish Inquistion. I don’t think they were expecting it,…. at least not quite so soon.
RE: Spain blocking Scotland joining/remaining in the EU: Forget the fishing rights, Gibraltar is a very big dangling carrot to get Espania to support Scotland in the EU. Believe me, the Spanish would do anything to get the rock back. Even if the SG simply agreed not to contest Spain’s claim, there is an unbelievable amount of leverage there. It would piss WM off mightily, however.:)
@mike cassidy 3.53
Good post and agree.
The media are looking for a headline to keep the bandwagon rolling. They’re basically misquoting and misleading in their frenzy and don’t give a monkey’s about the harm they cause with reckless speculation and shit stirring.
The haters are being directed at Scotland for no other reason than their own leadership is AWOL and on a mission of catastrophic self harm.
There’s enough confused, enraged and anxious people out there.The media could go a long way to calming things down at this time, but I reckon they don’t see that as their job, or their problem.
Who knew?
Wow, just wow. I cannae keep up wi things it’s a gaun sae fast.
Are Slab about to implode, now it seems their out to get dippity dug. Jeez oh.
While all of this is wildly entertaining, I must have put on very near a stone since Friday morning wi’ a’ this popcorn. If this keeps up much longer am gonnae feenish up like Jabba the Hut. Aw naw!
I see from WOS twitter feed that Nigel Farage, now demanding that the Governor of the Bank of England,Mark Carney, be sacked as the spiv says that Carney was bias during the referendum.
Carney is perhaps the only one in London tha actually knows whats going on and trying his best to prevent the pound becoming monopoly money!
The little corporal (Farage) apparently cant wait until his is actually elected, which no doubt he aims to be
Macart,
Agreed – however, the corporate media are doing what they always do in such dangerous times as these: dousing the fire (they started) with petrol.
BOOOOOOOM!
Hi Petra, my head is in a spin and my posting skills are sooo slow!
Alex Salmond on question time at 6.30 this evening oh and the French PM has said TTIP is out stating “against EU interests”
Strathclyde park evacuated very bad accident
Oh my god a rollercoaster accident in Motherwell. From all accounts around ten people in a rollercoaster carriage. The carriage has fallen 30 feet onto a little kiddie ride.
They are doing an indyref tribute act,keeping the heat off the Tories.
When Iceland shaft England tomorrow will England demand a replay? We need to know!
I hope I’m not behind the times, but has anyone seen this re Cameron’s cunning plan? (archived from huffington post)
http://www.archive.is/peTy7
Petra said:
You won’t be able to, dear lady, since all the establishments there will obviously be chock full already!
And you may also be accosted by Hell’s Grannies asking you if your bags are packed yet.
@Nana
Good to hear on the TTIP front.
@Luigi
Ayup, its a knack they have for making a bad situation catastrophic.
As I said some time ago, let the establishment do the heavy lifting’ and they’re not one to disappoint. 😉
Looks like the only organisation not yet surrendering are the Loyal OO – and Queenie has stopped purring too.
News item says The House of Commons Petitions Committee is investigating allegations of fraud in connection with a petition for a second EU referendum. Seems there is substance in the claims as, to date, 77,000 signatures have been removed.
I don’t know when I have had so much amusement at a UK governments actions in 70 odd years of following politics.
@ Robert Peffers
Oh it gets better. Much better.
The petition was started by a guy in a local uni here who is a Leave supporter. The reason he started the petition was to try to stop what looked like a Remain victory (a month ago) by petitioning for a threshold of 60% being the requirement for victory.
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/man-who-started-petition-calling-for-fresh-eu-referendum-is-de-montfort-university-student/story-29445407-detail/story.html
Its almost beyond parody, it really is 😀
Free Scotland 4.36
I had read that –
and the reluctance – still – of anybody to enter the Tory leadership certainly appears to back up the poison chalice description of the job.
eg IDS dithering on the subject this morning was a joy to behold.
But I’m not convinced that Cameron is that clever or devious.
Now, if he had resigned immediately and walked away ….
Robert Peffers says:
“Looks like the only organisation not yet surrendering are the Loyal OO – and Queenie has stopped purring.”
Happy to be able to tell you Robert there was an O/O walk through central Glasgow this afternoon under the pouring rain. A sullen populace looked on as the drookit bunch paraded to Freedom Square with all the usual tunes of hate and intimidation. God knows what the tourists thought. Gruesome but they were very wet hehehehehe.
By the way, Rev, thanks for your comments on the Euro and EU entry. Not that it will stop the Yoons from blatantly lying about it and all that “the SNP knew there was going to be a referendum” beau locks.
Vestas,
This “petitioning for a threshold of 60%” is a dangerous development. I can see the UK government (whoever they may be at the time) agreeing to an indyref2 but only on condition of a similar requirement being imposed, as in 1979. Then they can’t be seen as blocking a second referendum, though they will in effect be killing it with a poison pill.
Vestas
I bet he is keeping a low profile now 🙂
i cant see westminster negotiating with anyone for the forseeable future, too intent on their own bun fights
re nicola
Explore every possibility of not being pulled out of the eu.
slab and slib both support nicola approaching the eu directly, which isnt a completely normal channel.
it is conceivable that the eu refuse to deal directly with nicola and even refuse to clarify scotlands position if it were to vote yes in indyref2.
if this were the case, there is no reason why the eu would drag their feet, we could know their decision by next week.
this might precipitate indyref2 sooner than later, especially since the almighty bun fight in westminster could well cause another general election in november.
As a Unionist, I’m fed up with hearing all these Separatists on the radio saying how great their little country is.
I should clarify the above…
I’m a European Unionist and I’m fed up with these UK Separatists!
We’re Better Together – in the EU!
Has anyone seen the bile infesting the WOS Twitter? Lots of demented cretins suggesting Nicola should be shot, kicked in the c**t and punched in the c**t etc. Will the police take action?
As ever Rev., a great article.
In the EU; out of the UK; goodbye Trident:no more illegal wars; goodbye Bucks Palace, Chequers; goodbye Black Rod and the other Westminster farces; goodbye House of “Lords”.What a Wish List,
And what prospects for independent Scotland – renewable energy development; west coast Oil&Gas development; exports via Scottish ports; Scottish Armed Forces for peace-keeping duties; Scottish Broadcaster.
And a very talented First Minister leading the strategy team to gain independence.
It feels like we have been trailing by 17 points to 15 with ten minutes to go and hoggy has just scored a breakaway try. On celebrating the england captain goes up and lamps him. Hoggy, uninjured, gets to his feet while the not unexpected red is flashed.
The try is converted. We’re at home by the way and our English cousins look out on their feet.
We might be five points in the lead, but the games far from over, however, if we screw the nut, keep up the pressure and stay focussed, we can do this.
@ Robert J Sutherland :
We’re way past the point where Westminster can impose anything like that. After all the EU ref vote was “decisive” wasn’t it 😉
@ HandandShrimp :
He’s a PPE student so I’d suspect that he’s quite happy with the publicity 😀 My initial reaction was that he’d made it up but apparently not….
President Higgins of the Irish Republic is to visit the Scottish Parliament on Wednesday, at the invitation of the Presiding Officer.
Great stuff! Fantastic timing.
Sky News saying Nicola Sturgeon will block Brexit. All Nicola has stated is that she will do everything she can to protect SCOTLAND’S place in the EU and the rUK can do whatever the hell they like. Do these media fuckers at Sky TV (aye, that’s you Boulton) not realise that such blatant twisting of the truth is just the fuel that some demented Brexit zoomer would need to take matters into his/her own hands? And we all know what happened to MP Jo Cox as a result of some far right nutter.
Stop spinning your lies SKY TV. You are putting people’s lives at risk from Brexit zoomers.
Sunday Politics:
Watch the whole thing or for Scottish interest only 1hr 25mins in for The Brewer – Sturgeon interview after a wee bit of an intro.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07gqt9h/sunday-politics-scotland-26062016
BBC reporting on the expert who stated that Holyrood could block the Brexit result. Followed by another ‘expert’ saying expert number one (didn’t pick up on either name) has got it wrong. Followed by Davidson stating too that Nicola has got the ‘Brexit block’ wrong as per her constitutional advisor, Tomkins no doubt, and awaits what she (Nicola) will have to say about this on Tuesday.
Asked if she would be standing for UK Tory Leader. No says she, she has enough on her hands in Scotland trying to hold the Union together. Talk about suffering from delusions of bl**dy grandeur! God give me strength!
Making a big deal of, as she says, many people in Scotland being very concerned about the Indyref2 proposal. Running Nicola down throughout … Nicola Sturgeon didn’t waste any time bringing this up etc, etc, etc.
What an absolute sickener. I can’t wait to see that egotistical wee runt get a boot up the bahookie…. all the way to London.
@lotsOfPeople earlier re Yes images
I spent ages crafting a “thankyou” response to at least 6 people who provided links and offers. That was around 2:45pm (I think) and it hasn’t appeared. Bugger.
Briefly:
I don’t need the physical thing I just needed the file for a decent resolution version. I now have a few options (Thanks again all) and I’ll pass the info to my son who wants to do something “creative” with them.
@Cactus – dude, how’s tricks? Thanks for the suggestion and I’ll see if he can customise one for you 😉
Once again, to all, muchos gracias.
Bound to happen, EU president Shulz says he wants UK to trigger A50 by Tuesday.
Also, please take note. John Kerry was posing for pics in Italy, not London.
Don’t know if I can keep up this pace. There must be a war room at Bute House now.
Papers now ramping up sweaties will stop the English leaving.
Tory party make moves to stop new members joining just to vote against Boris, having watched the Jeremy experience.
I watched the BBC News Channel a little while ago and their Scotland reporter Andrew Black seems to think he is a Constitutional expert. Opinions masquerading as news.
He does not know what is going on as do the British Establishment.
Robert J. Sutherland at 4.58
The UK government cant determine the conditions for any referendum we want to have. I’m still surprised that so many people are taken in by their bluff.
And I know (and they know) whatt would be the result if they even try to
Robert J. Sutherland at 4.58
The UK government can’t determine the conditions for any referendum we want to have. I’m still surprised that so many people are taken in by their bluff.
And I know (and they know) what would be the result if they even try to
Having watched the Gordon Brewer programme, Scotland should thank their luck that they have someone of the capacity of Sturgeon at the helm during these times. She is a truly remarkable lady and we witness history in the making. The Scots have been unduly reserved since 1978 and the Argentinian debacle, but you all need to get behind this woman and give her your 100% support.
England voted out on a mix of anti-establishment anarchy, bigotry and parochialism – but it should be acknowledged that they have given the Establishment a much bigger bloody nose that Scotland did in 2014. Good for them. What matters now is whether they have the fight for a much more noble cause. I hope so….all sorts of shite is about to be unloaded upon them…
Petra 5.25
I think this might be a slight breach of the Rev’s new “let’s hug a hoodie” approach!
I can’t wait to see that egotistical wee runt get a boot up the bahookie…. all the way to London.
Just got emailed this. What is that lady up to?
https://www.change.org/p/nicola-sturgeon-we-the-undersigned-demand-a-revote-of-the-scottish-referendum-counted-by-impartial-international-parties?tk=a_hqnM0MdUGlJjY-XKkp8rXg5fnchxOdSmNWEKNo2Eg&utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email
Off topic I know, but I don’t tweet, and I think your message earlier about the animated EU flag and fascism got it wrong – that “One twig has been broken, the bundle survives,” thing.
The point about the fasces is that no twigs break. The bundle is much stronger than the sum of the twigs. It’s fairly unobjectionable, and doesn’t depart much from typical Trade Union solidarity. Just because bad people employed a metaphor, that doesn’t make it a bad metaphor.
A closer match to where you are would be Achilles’s Myrmidons (ants) or the Persian Immortals – you can kill an individual but you can’t kill the group.
Is there any data on how EU nationals voted in the Indy referendum – I could see that, having been told that Yes meant leaving the EU, they may have tended to vote No. I dare say the reverse will be true next time!
Valerie 5.29
Picked up on this through wos twitter.
https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2016/06/26/brexit-can-the-eu-force-the-uk-to-trigger-the-two-year-brexit-process/
Looks like the EU can tell them to get their finger out – and not much else until whatever the feck gets done at Westminster.
And what that ‘whatever the feck’ is is literally anybody’s guess.
Uncharted territory barely starts to describe this political clusterfuck.
bbc scotland headquarters 20 minutes from m&d strathclyde park and they still can’t give any details you get more information and photos on twitter f/n wonderfull coverage if it was ruthie having a talk in a pub they would have been on the spot
I’m not sure that we should block it,whether we like it or not they voted out. England voted out in full knowledge that the Scots might leave.
@ velofello, U forgot the cricket & the morris dancin! 🙂
“In that case the fix is in. Get as many EU nationals and EU supporting rUK citizens to move to Scotland, tout de suite!
(Only half joking.)”
Already seriously considering a move north…doubt I’m alone either.
Just thought of another potential EU lever: Scotland should promise to support the replacement of the rUK at the security council with an EU seat. With the rUK’s nuke base in Scottish territory, I think this gives us a pretty big say. Scotland has so many strong cards to play. 🙂
Rev. Stu,
You say “the time to attack is when your foe is in disarray, and the Unionist establishment hasn’t been in this much disarray for decades, if not centuries. But strategic logic will count for nothing if the polls aren’t showing a strong and consistent lead for Yes.”
The army opposing you has put down all its weapons and wandered off to the river to drink. Strategic logic dictates you should attack now. But instead you propose we should wait until they have “consistently” put their weapons aside and kept drinking.
No. Seize the moment.
BBC 1 national tv news, straight in hard core headline Corbyn monstering. Poor old JC. What a bunch.
Latest Unionist strawman: ‘Legislative Consent Motion.’ Brewer and the scurvy crew at BBC Scotland think they’ve stumbled on something. Well Nicola stated she will stop anything that harms Scotland… but this is not the same thing.
I’m no legislative expert but I do know that the EU treaty is between the UK and the EU. Brexit means Westminster, and Westminster only, must recognise and implement this dissolution of our membership. If the subordinate (to Westminster) Scottish Parliament refuses to consent to this..it will not stop the process. It is an internal dispute and can be used a delaying factor only in the process.
However, Nicola will be negotiating with the EU separately and if they accept us as a remaining and continuing national/ region, that creates a different situation: for the UK as was, will no longer exist, and Independence is a logical conclusion for our membership to continue. Therefore, the Scottish Parliament can assert its Sovereignty legitimately once and for all by having a plebiscite to affirm both our EU membership and our Independence.
That apart, this whole situation has created in stark relief the bancruptcy of Westminster and its politicians. Not a shred of intelligence, honesty, insight or leadership is visible. Bozo and the Brexiteers like dead men walking…Cameron as ever the despicable coward…Labour bereft of principles or ideas. And these people bullied and conned us in 2014!!
Their poisonous confederates..the fascist corporate media dripping in venom and malice…stupid, lazy and venal. These self regarding pompous fools created and facilitated this disaster for England. A population deeply divided and soon to rise to dangerous anger with the betrayal by their rotten and corrupt institutions.
When the truth comes out in the Chilcott…no matter how much of a whitewash we may start to see the start of the new English civil war. Let’s hope it’s one of words, not of action.
Rev. Stu, what a great analysis, last paragraph World Class ………. Felt that Tom Gordon in today’s Sunday Herald and Saturday’s Retard’s EU Go Girl……. Are attempts by Labour Unionists to pressurise the FM into an Indy Ref2……. Never Ever trust a word from the Scottish Media
msean 5.51
Holyrood can’t block Brexit legislation at Westminster, nor how that would affect Cardiff or Belfast.
That would be up to those assemblies.
What Holyrood could do, I think, is decline to accept Brexit-derived legislation affecting Scotland.
Although this, like everything else at the moment, screams ‘uncharted territory”
The presentation of this as Scotland stopping Brexit is clearly designed to undermine the only credible politician of the weekend – irresponsibly dangerously, as others have posted.
BBCnews is still presenting it like this in their redbutton news stories, and appear to have removed the ‘Scotland only’ truth of the matter from their rolling headlines.
Probably setting up some SNPbadness for Question Time.
See my post at 3.53 for relevant links.
“Their poisonous confederates..the fascist corporate media dripping in venom and malice…stupid, lazy and venal. These self regarding pompous fools created and facilitated this disaster for England. A population deeply divided and soon to rise to dangerous anger with the betrayal by their rotten and corrupt institutions.”
And just wait until they hear of direct negotiations between Scotland and the EU, Lochside. I think the mood in England is very dangerous but it’s the right wing press and politicians who have caused this, not that they’ll ever accept it.
Both the rural and urban poor in England have voted Leave. Westminster will never make up the billions lost in EU grants and support. What happens when they realise they have been sold a colossal pup (and there is no magic end to immigration)?
Thank God we have an alternative in Scotland and the prospect of a prosperous, inclusive, outward-looking country.
BBC London News, also straight in with the BBC nation wide get JC campaign. No mention of any Brexiteer, toryboy or the great Farage.
I have been keying similar historical data into a computer model over the years and have always been given the predicted date of 2017 for Scottish independence (although sometimes this fluctuated back to 2018 before this whole Brexit thing).
But today I keyed in the new data and the model gave me the date of 3 November 2016. Does anyone know if “3 November” is significant at all in Scottish history? 3 November and not 30 November, mind.
https://twitter.com/RUS_ART_NET/status/747118933640159233
3 days of total mayhem in England shire and not a peep from Brenda or BuckPal.
How very stiff upper lip, what ho!
test
Right folks, I used the term red carpet. Carpet fitter has arrived.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-scotland-germany-idUSKCN0ZC0QT
Oh well QT for the first time in a while…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone
A couple of hours ago the BBC News Channel were interviewing their Scottish correspondent Andrew Black.
They asked him about the reports that Nicola was threatening to withold assent for brexit.
Please don’t laugh now – the reply was that they had consulted a notable expert on constitutional affairs who happened to be Slovenian and this expert duly set the nation’s mind at ease by saying that she couldn’t.
Is there no end to The BBC’s deviousness?
O/T
Hot News Flash from Buck Hoos
Davey Cameroon is definately no getting an ermine collar, not not ever no way.
He’s buggered up the bloody country. He should have stuck to porcine fancying.
BBC radio 4 reporting at 6pm Germany wanted to give us time.
No clips with translations, no quotes, and who said what was not specified.
Unsubstantiated rumours are not news.
Shame on Andrew Neil and Carl Roberts for not putting THE real question to Tory and Labour leaders today when discussing Scotland and the referendum
“Did you not tell the people of Scotland of that the only way to save Scotland’s membership of the EU was to vote NO?”
@valerie 6.52
That will never be reported on the EBC
However had he said the opposite, it would have been headlines and Nicola pressed to explain.
@ Cadogan Enright
They might argue that it was the only way – just not a guaranteed way.
That of course would require them to (pretend to) continue to believe that an independent Scotland would neither remain a member nor easily re-join.
mike cassidy 6:15
Thanks,missed that. Seems with that Sewel Motion,Westminster will ignore Holyrood or any other devolved parliament as the euref relates to uk.
Craig Murray, I’m with you, they don’t know what day of the week it is, they will only get more organised from here, we’ve been given a free throw of the dice with nothing to lose.
No one every said it was two IndyRefs max.
Question time with Alex Salmond who is his usual competent self. Not good for the blood pressure, though.
I really only have one question to English politicians – do they simply believe Scotland is part of their Greater England?
Heedtracker
That petition to NS for a rerun of indyref is closed.
BBC QT special’s barking mad tonight! Anna Soubrey just explained how great the EU is for everything, economic, social, safeness, and they ofcourse just left it.
We’re not allowed ref 2 either, rancid The Graun vicar says one ref’s enough for the sweaties.
Lollysmum says:
26 June, 2016 at 7:15 pm
Heedtracker
That petition to NS for a rerun of indyref is closed.
Are they not firing up a new ref 2 one?
re Currency. Do we really want to keep what will be Brit Confetti?
@James Mc Intosh 2:15…. “Anyone else find it a little ironic that everything bad that’s befallen UK (English) politics in the past 2 years is as a direct consequence of their actions during Indy Ref.”
@ Breeks 3:09…. “And to what will historians attribute the cause of this chaos?”
Don’t underestimate the effect Cameron’s announcement of EVEL on 19th September – perhaps the moment Little England was given hope! Carmichael’s lies and Chilcott will not fail to go down in history either.
But we have Nicola, Stormborn, Defender of Scots on our side – and she was beyond brilliant today!
O/T @Kenny 6:24pm November 3rd, 1975 – UK First UK Oil Pipeline : The Queen formally opened the UK’s first oil pipeline. The 130-mile pipeline from Cruden Bay to Grangemouth serving the Forties oil field 110 miles east of Aberdeen.
More heat than light on QT which got nowhere fast.
Salmond did well enough though and got a few rounds of applause but Scotland is low on their agenda. Both the audience as well as the leave panellists see us as a threat to their world and rather we were back in the box. Aye right! 🙂
Par for the course.
A little point before I finish reading. Sturgeon is doing a bit of a bluff but one which she’d follow through on, with the idea she can block the UK leaving, but she can certainly make life awkward.
But in my opinion it’s an indirect threat: block our Indy Ref 2, and I’ll block Brexit. Make Indy Ref 2 easy with the Section 30 order, and no problemo.
“I really only have one question to English politicians – do they simply believe Scotland is part of their Greater England?”
galamcennalath, of course, when they ever think of us at all. Their condescending, dismissive attitude is appalling but it doesn’t seem to be noticed by the Proudscot-Buts. The Union was supposed to be one between two equal kingdoms but in effect the English saw it as an annexation, like that of Wales and Ireland.
Just waiting for the shit-storm when Merkel opens the door to Scotland and Little England erupts.
Taking time out from slaying nats, serious face Ruthie Babes, totally and completely out of her depth, also says no ref 2 for her scotland region.
BBC reprobates give Ruth such a lovely time, any butting in, tough queries etc nope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZrbNbF6bZ0
The rest of the world must be shocked at the sheer level of f**kwittery in the British Establishment. Looks like any major investors will be thinking they should get out of the UK pronto!
Did Dimbleedum actually tell AS to “stop talking about Scotland all the time” near the end of that utter shambles, when AS stated that Nicola was doing just fine….?
Other than that, what did we learn in that 60 minutes ?
England and wales are totally fucked.
Scotland ABSOLUTELY MUST be independent, and bloody soon as prudent.
The so-called united kingdom disintegrates; it’s a privilege to witness its demise.
Wasn’t that young lad on Question Time worked up or what? Thought he was looking for a fight with someone.
Also I believe that Scots should just refuse invitations to Question Time and let the the centralist, xenophobic English fight among themselves as they seem to be doing a good job without Scottish input.
Then again not. Alex brought a bit of comedy after mentioning that most of the Labour backbench had quit, but he was glad to see that David was still there, Dimbelby, that is.
Our boy’s found Bojo. No sign of Gideon though:D
https://www.facebook.com/andymurrayofficial/?fref=nf
Tinto Chiel says:
“Their condescending, dismissive attitude is appalling but it doesn’t seem to be noticed by the Proudscot-Buts.”
For 300 years the PSBs Sometimes call themselves North British. No one from Hampshire or Essex ever called themselves South British. I have always thought that summed up the reality.
PSBs aspire to something other than Scottish, they foolishly believe people in England share their world view.
I’m with Craig Murray – strike while the iron is hot. And how hot is that iron right now!
Westminster and the British Establishment are in a state of utter disarray. We most likely will never again get anything even remotely like this perfect storm of fuckwittery by those who are hostile to Scotland and it’s people who, in ever increasing numbers, view Scottish self-determination as the only way forward.
Westminster and the Britnats will regroup into an even nastier copy of that previous. Now is the time, while the enemy is in befuddlement, to take advantage of the situation before they regroup and form the new and even uglier hydra-headed version of themselves.
We may not have a better opportunity than now. IndyRef2 should be held before this year is over.
I don’t believe they can stop Scotland holding a second Indyref.
Even if you concede that Holyrood was set up as subordinate to Westminster, the Scottish Government is the elected voice of Scotland where sovereignty rests with the people.
If Westminster was to block its Holyrood parliament, even to close it down, then Scotland MP’s might step outside the building and reconvene an alternative parliament which does not draw its authority from Westminster, but directly from the sovereign people of Scotland instead. It all comes down to the delicate matter of an oath.
If Westminster chooses to treat Holyrood like a Parliamentary sub-committee, then we simply hand back their delegated authority walk out of Westminster and have our combined MP’s and MSP’s come together as one and assume authority from the absolute authority of the Scottish people. Thing is, it would be bizarre to do so over authority for a referendum which would be obsolete since the truly sovereign parliament of Scotland, not Westminster’s legislature, would have reconvened outside and separate from Westminster. Scotland would in effect be independent, since that parliament would be answerable to nobody except the people of Scotland and the need for a referendum would be obsolete.
Westminster has a tiger by the tail, but their grip is weakening by the hour.
Brexit has opened Pandora’s box and thrown away the lid. It would be pure petulance to interfere with Scotland while engaged with damage limitation caused by UK’s rank stupidity. They’d have nothing to gain. The damage has been done, and Brexit has compromised their authority to tell us what to do.
@Jim Thomson
Tricks good. Went to see Don Henley play Glasgow last night, groovy gig.
Just like Dons song, Scotland’s now living life in the fast lane! 🙂
“PSBs aspire to something other than Scottish, they foolishly believe people in England share their world view.”
Whereas for us, galamcennalath, “I want for my part/Only the little white rose of Scotland/That smells sharp and sweet-and breaks the heart.”
Turbulent waters up ahead, but the FM has the tiller.
I stumbled into a postponed QT tonight, and the attitude of the Brexit panellists and audience is mystifying. The usual story: they gloat that we chose not to separate in 2014 so now we should just knuckle under to their will, even though they have yet again clearly demonstrated it to be utterly different from ours.
Typical ignorant Brummie woman in the audience: it’s Nicola Sturgeon who is causing all the trouble! Somebody should capture that outburst and show it to everyone up here. It should convert at least some Scot-buts.
It a total logic bypass: if the English don’t like us causing all this trouble and supposedly imposing our will upon theirs (as quoth the kipper panellist), you would think they would be only too glad to be rid of us!
A Marr….Sunday Politics….QT.
What great confident performances from NS and AS today.
We should consider ourselves lucky to have politicians who can speak clearly and concisely on any subject for the greater good of our country.
NS and AS are also excellent at answering the trick type of questions as well as forcefully making their point.
I’ve watched a lot of interviews over the last few days and Nicola simply stands out supreme. Most competent by a mile.
Nicola has been on fire recently, showing the world what a trustworthy ally she is whilst sending a message to Westmonster:
http://archive.is/rqiiY
Breeks: so a national assembly comprising MPs and MSPs? That would keep me and Peatworrier happy.
Vive la revolution!
There may be many uncertainties.
But one thing is absolutely, 100% certain.
According to Scotland’s top historic, geographical, legal and constitutional expert, ROBERT PEFFERS, Scotland does not need Westminster’s approval to hold an independence referendum.
Did anyone see the Star on Sunday headline today? ‘500,000 migrants heading for UK’.
I couldn’t believe it. Why are they still doing this? Irresponsible, especially in the light of the racist incidents going on in England. Doesnt seem to be in the online edition, did they pull it?
“EU may refuse informal Brexit talks until UK triggers article 50
Brussels has given up hope that exit process will be formally launched at summit this week but wants it to begin soon”
Rancid The Graun’s headline and not happy. Shit rolls down hill. Graun’s vicar on BBC QT there told Salmond there’s no way Scotland gets a ref 2 and that teamGB should chillax, its going to be civilised withdrawal, at the pace that suits England. Its probably not.
Are EU YES yet?
Och, Rock, gie it a rest!
Why don’t you spend your time attacking our enemies?
Rights need to be asserted.
Just watch the FM go.
As I posted last year:
“Anyone who remained in Labour after it was formally Torified by Blair and led the country to an illegal war has no credibility.
Tony Benn was a total fraud.
His chameleon of a son Hilary Benn has now taken over from him.
Independence and SNP supporters should not trust anyone inside Labour one bit.”
Leaving politics to one side for a moment…that Ruth Davidson’s got a right big baw face so she has.
Methinks the Brits don’t want us anymore and would rather we went away – can someone let them know we’re only too happy to oblige.
O/T
Things are not good in the Black Country.
Here is an extract from an e-mail from a good friend there. A professional Lady Engineer.
“Getting to Halesowen I had to drive through Lye and a difficult situation has developed. For months now a group of maybe 100 Romanian low lives have been moving around the area. They move into an area steal everything that is not fixed down (and some things that are) then get moved on. They have now moved into Lye and yesterday the atmosphere was scary. The local residents were crossing the road rather than walk through this group and drivers were visibly closing car windows and locking car doors (me amongst them). The body language was very much stay away or suffer. I do wonder if things will escalate and someone will die or they will get moved on again first.
it must make it hard for the permanent Romanian settlement on the north of Lye and everyone gets tarred with the same criminal brush.”
strange times, im desparate to see further polling.
if nicola does speak to the eu, she will undoubtably ask for clarification on an indy scotlands place in the eu ASWELL as asking about scotland, within the uk, position on the eu.
scotland staying in the eu but still in the uk,seems complicated and potentially unfeasable and perhaps not desirable.
if the polls in the next month show 60% yes, nicola could just announce that scotland, within the uk, cannot remain in the EU, but we will now know what an indy sotlands position will be.
it has been said, westminster is weaker now than ever before, and the unionists in scotland are down and out… maybe it is time to go on the offensive
Two days is too soon to be looking for cast iron statements of intent from the FM. The media have tried that nonsense today in pursuit of a reckless headline and all they’ve achieved is a poisonous torrent of twitter abuse aimed at the FM and the Scottish electorate.
Time is what is needed. Time to do this right and let the SG do their jobs. We’re not talking years here. We’re talking weeks and a handful of months. That’s just how quickly events are moving, so every minute the SG can get to nail down details, garner support, make their case to the appropriate bods and resolve issues for the Scottish electorate is precious.
Where’s that Lambrini at?
England has won its own independence via the EU ref. That is the result, no ifs no buts,it’s what they have been driven to for years, with their underlying hatred of anything or anybody foreign.
I only hope that we in Scotland will end up independent via the European Union without the need for another referendum, it is Scotland that supplies the UK with financial , industrial and exportable commodities.
Scotland overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU? The EU is fully aware that Scotland as a member state will bring stability to the chaos taking place at this moment. It is Scotland that holds all the aces.
To hell with another ref. C,mon NIcola nows the time nows the hour.
England now have their independence,Im damned if I’m going to ask them or anyone else for permission for our self determination.
Now that I have had a chance to catch up I am enjoying the bloodbath in the British/ English Labour Party. Not even Disreporting Jackie can cover that up. I am also enjoying the utter chaos amongst the Tories. The deil tak the lot of them!
With the UK leaving the EU, there is absolutely no credible way for Scotland to remain part of the UK as well as the EU as if nothing had changed.
Everything depends on Scotland being fully independent.
The EU will want Scotland more than Scotland wants the EU.
Scotland is in a very strong position right now.
Nicola should get a written statement from the EU that if Scotland votes for independence, Scotland can be a full member from day 1, with the same arrangements as present regarding currency, Schengen etc, IF Scotland wants to be a member from day 1.
The independence referendum questions should then be:
Should Scotland become independent?
If Yes,
Should Scotland continue as a member of the EU, or
Should Scotland leave the EU?
If the vote is for independence outside the EU, we can leave the UK on the same day as the UK (including Scotland) leaves the EU.
We should not wait for the outcome of the Tory civil war down south.
The independence referendum should be held before Cameron’s successor takes over.
All the issues have been already extensively debated during the last campaign and the Wee Black Book exposing Project Fear’s lies is very conveniently fresh off the Press to be delivered to every household in Scotland.
Strike while the iron is hot.
My Slovene girlfriend lays down the law
Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins 9h9 hours ago
Holyrood has the power to show or to withhold its consent. But withholding consent is not the same as blocking.
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Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins 9h9 hours ago
Lots of nonsense on here about Holyrood having power to block or veto Brexit. It has no such power.
Clear? Its not at all. And its clearly not clear because if it was legally clear, BetterTogether Slovenia would says so.
Ireland’s premier Busines and Political paper “the Sunday Business Post” makes interesting reading from a Scottish perspective today.
Business pages are picking over the economic debris of Brexit with Irish Business and official Industrial Devlopment organisations circling like vultures over a corpse, and picking up tasty job transfer and business location morsels for Ireland. Business writers confounding pessimists over Brexit by arguing that the benefits totally outweigh the serious costs of potential damage to trade with the UK – as Ireland’s selling point as a highly educated English speaking internationalist workforce to international inward investment just became unique and unassailable.
Over on the political pages the arguments on Ireland’s clear self interest are to block any attempt by Brussels to introduce impediments to free travel with the UK – and most of them mentioning Scotland separately, sympathetically aware of developments. Even ignoring the North, 500,000 Irish people living in Britain and over 300,000 British people living here.
There is every intention on both sets of pages to 1. Maximise benefits to Ireland and 2. Ensure that nothing stupid happens to trade or travel with UK.
Both useful approaches from a Scottish point of view. Time for the Scottish Government to start poaching London jobs and for bi-lateral discussions with friendly EU countries methinks.
It could be hugely beneficial for the North were Scotland able to swing the Greenland model – and make politics interesting here in the North if the DUP tried to block such an economically beneficial deal just because it wanted to ape Little Englander nationalism.
G A Ponsonby’s thoughts on indy2
http://indyref2.scot/indyref2-will-be-held-in-2018
I am afraid there WILL HAVE TO BE border controls at Berwick, Gretna and Annan. The very reason is so obvious. We need to control the numbers of economic refugees coming north from a skint and dilapidated England.
Remember, Scotland is an exporting nation. England is not. So they have voted to isolate themselves from the rest of humanity for a racist fascist cause. Therefore, as England does not have much of an export industry, where will they get cash? An independent Scotland over the border, with a great export industry, and much viability to become the energy powerhouse of the continent shall become very strong financially. The Scottish pound shall become a very hard currency, and the English pound shall weaken even more. This will mean the financial viability of England v Scotland will become a vast gap. England’s economy will collapse, and they will be trying to come here to escape the Dickensian nightmare they voted for. However, even as we will be a very rich country in comparison, there is no way we could sustain treating 60 million rUK people for rickets, malnutrition and any other 1800s diseases you can muster.
You reap what you sew.
Wow just realised how ironically vote leave that sounds….
https://caltonjock.com/2016/02/16/blair-mandelson-and-progress-make-their-move-corbyn-has-a-battle-on-his-hands-david-miliband-in-the-frame-for-leadership-challenge/
if the eu does talk with nicola, she should be able to get conformation of an indy scotlands position in the eu at the same time as she discusses the present situation.
that is something they offered cameron, he refused, but something they woulndt offer salmond.
if she gets that, and we have consistent high polls for yes, she might just say that staying in the eu and the uk isnt possible and call indyref2, this could happen before the leader contests and the potential ge
“Events, dear boy, events” as Macmillan once wryly observed.
They are creating facts as we watch. Ignorant Brummie woman on QT may have subconsciously understood that it’s Nicola who is making the real running as the WM establishment are in total disarray. She has come out of the starting block running, which is very encouraging, but she has to keep up the momentum. This requires two important things:
+ The EU is firmly onside re Scotland’s continued membership, irrespective of Brexit England’s total lack of direction and delaying tactics.
+ Sufficient support from the people of Scotland.
Given an assurance on those essential elements, I’m not sure that another indyref is actually necessary. On the contrary, Scottish UDI in the very near future is not to be dismissed.
It would create a constitutional crisis at a time when WM is in disarray, and would bring on board many Scots who are still currently hesitant, besides the ones who have already switched because of the EUref. When forced by events to choose, I believe the great majority of Scots will give their consent to independence. It minimises the uncertainty and frees us from the ongoing disarray down south.
Given that situation, what exactly could London do about a well-supported withdrawal of consent? Send in the Army? The Brexiteers might even be glad to see us go.
In the current madhouse, anything might be possible, given sufficient popular support.
What no more resignations?
Peter Murrell says “Welcome to our 2,042 new SNP members this weekend” 🙂
Well George Osborne should show up for work tomorrow and either resign or show us the fag packet with plan B on it.
Nicola did not say she would block the UK. She said she would do everything to ensure Scotland stayed in the EU. Block attempts to take Scotland out of the EU. The Press are lying again.
Hilary Benn should just join the Tories. The ‘speech’ to bomb Syria causing migration, to Tory applause. He is a disgrace, along with the rest of them.
The Tories will not be in power for years. They are a danger to society. It took them a year to destroy the UK economy. Thatcher did the same, especially to Scotland. Spent the Oil revenues on London S/E and lied. Johnston is a delusional liar.
@ Valerie says at 6:32 pm …. ”Right folks, I used the term red carpet. Carpet fitter has arrived.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-scotland-germany-idUSKCN0ZC0QT
Thanks for that Valerie. Fantastic news. And do you think this could be read as Scotland not having to reapply for membership?
“The EU will still consist of 28 member states, as I expect a new independence referendum in Scotland, which will then be successful,” said Gunther Krichbaum, a member of Merkel’s conservatives and Chairman of the European Affairs Committee in Parliament.
“We should respond quickly to an application for admission from the EU-friendly country,” he told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper.”
………………………………………………
@ Nana says at 4:29 pm ….”Hi Petra, my head is in a spin and my posting skills are sooo slow! Alex Salmond on question time at 6.30 this evening oh and the French PM has said TTIP is out stating “against EU interests.”
Hi Nana great to see you back but more than anything great to know that you are on the road to recovery xx And the news (TTIP) just gets better and better!
……………………………………………..
@ paulTgeist says at 5:00 pm …. ”Has anyone seen the bile infesting the WOS Twitter? Lots of demented cretins suggesting Nicola should be shot, kicked in the c**t and punched in the c**t etc. Will the police take action?”
Well I hope this has been passed onto the Police Paul. Additionally I hope Nicola has a great deal of protection, as I’m sure she must be the most hated woman (seen to be the most dangerous) in the UK, especially right now. The Media should also cut out telling lies about her and / or exaggerating. They are totally intent in stirring up such hatred with no consideration of possible repercussions.
………………………………………….
@ mike cassidy says at 5:38 pm ….”Petra …. I think this ….
”I can’t wait to see that egotistical wee runt get a boot up the bahookie …..all the way to London.
… might be a slight breach of the Rev’s new “let’s hug a hoodie” approach!”
Mike I think there are exceptions to the (Stu) rules and Moothie Roothie is one of them, lol.
……………………………………………..
@ Portjim says at 5:48 pm …. ”Is there any data on how EU nationals voted in the Indy referendum – I could see that, having been told that Yes meant leaving the EU, they may have tended to vote No. I dare say the reverse will be true next time!”
I read 60% of EU Nationals voted No in Indyref1 Jim. No doubt because Unionist activists warned them that they would be thrown out of Scotland if they voted Yes. Next time round I can see 90% of them voting Yes.
……………………………………….
@ geeo says at 7:50 pm …. ”Did Dimbleedum actually tell AS to “stop talking about Scotland all the time” near the end of that utter shambles, when AS stated that Nicola was doing just fine….? Other than that, what did we learn in that 60 minutes ? England and wales are totally fucked. Scotland ABSOLUTELY MUST be independent, and bloody soon as prudent.”
He did Geo and did you notice he (snakelike) wouldn’t let AS answer despicable Tory Justice Minister Dominic Raab (Leaver) when he said Westminster wouldn’t allow another Referendum and went on about our poor wee economy. It’s no wonder we bl**dywell detest them: The whole kit and caboodle.
The programme (other than Alex) was a washout. No mention of how they go forward (such as policies) other than ”we must all pull together now” over, and over and over again. How on earth can you ”pull people together’ when politicians and the media have irrevocably divided them through brainwashing? And are still at it.
…………………………………
Some great articles in the Sunday Herald today (mostly re. Brexit) such as ”The SNP is examining the potential for a legal challenge in one of the seats won by Lib-Dem Alex Cole-Hamilton following the Sunday Herald revealing his (electoral) spending patterns.”
Osborne must have given considerable thought to the selection of his current bolthole.
*’They’ll never think of looking for me here…’*
Ronnie Anderson – when did you last check your shed?
Strange QT when Anna Soubry is on the sane, sympathetic side. Paul Nuttall is only ever one spasm away from a total rant about Scots and Scotland. If Nicola did delay Brexit I think his shiny head might explode. 🙂
http://tommysheppardmp.scot/index.php/create-blog/entry/britain-votes-to-leave-the-eu-so-what-happens-now
Proud Cybernat,
“The Scottish Parliament blocking Brexit will have major ramifications down the road to our own indy. We shouldn’t do it.”
It would be utter madness for the Scottish Parliament to block Brexit and let Westminster off the hook.
This is Scotland’s golden opportunity to get out of the rotten to the core UK.
If we miss it, we will not get another one for another 300 years.
Thanks, Nana, for the Ponsonby link, although the way things are moving, RJS may be right.
Breathless, me.
Oooooooooooooft!
On the other hand Sturgeon and the SNP must know by now they’ll be badly misquoted, so it might be deliberate: “That’s not what I said (but if you want to report it that way, thanks very much)”.
I think that’s what they call brewers’ droop. Or is it poop?
Hey fellow wingers.
I managed to get a few hours sleep so am catching up quickly with this afternoons events. (Had 12 hours sleep in 4 days)
This talk about the Scottish Parliament can do this or can’t do that. I thought we were now one of the most powerful parliaments in the world now? Or so we kept being told. So it’s confirmed we have no power in Scotland because we can’t self determine and have to ask Westminster for indyref2.
This is history in the making. The 45’s will be remembered like the French resistance or the ANC. Against all odds and the whole establishment and media we stood up to xenophobic, racist nationalism and crimes against humanity. Serious we should be so proud of ourselves and what we’ve stood against.
Seriously, it makes me very emotional to be confirmed in history to being on the right side.
@Tinto Chiel
I find myself thinking the same. I spot a link and read it consider posting only to find some moments later events have changed again. Difficult to keep up especially for a slow typing not yet up to speed Nana
Sage advice from any hard core unionist toryboy is always useful and at least he’s not bashing on and on about his scotland region’s fiscal black hole today
Pinned Tweet
(((Kevin Hague))) ?@kevverage 6h6 hours ago
Indyref2: If ever there was a time to pause and reflect and just wait to see how the dust settles, it is surely now
Oh wait
“Scotland doesn’t have its own stable currency and our stand-alone deficit (as % of GDP) would be larger than any existing EU country – so even if the EU made a remain option available for Scotland, it is likely to come with some pretty significant conditions. Are we ready and willing to join the Euro? Would we be willing to slash public spending by over 15% if the EU made this a condition of remaining?”
Wonder where old chockablog will appear now that BBC Scotland’s flagshit Scotland 2016’s gone tits up, just in time for the most extraordinary period in its scotland region’s story.
Major B/n – earliest reference I can remember to England of necessity doing the business for us is in the Corries song “Johnny Lad” way back 1972/3 or thereabouts. Regards
This is quite funny:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/wheresgeorge
Thanks for the Tommy Shepard link Nana, intelligent, clear and honest appraisal of what has taken place and were we are at. Good stuff. Buckle up.
(Good to have ye back Nana 🙂 )
@Nana
Looks like Tommy Shepherd has been reading Wings. Ta for the link.
Oh and glad to see you back 🙂
Please Don’t forget we need to get the group of Tory MPs
imprisoned and de-selected for fraudulent activities regarding election funding in the General Election.
Also need to have the dodgy Lib Dem Alex Cole-Bunker brought
to just for expenditure fraud.
We should have that £600,000 back that was spent on keeping Labour’s war monger Jack Straw out of prison.
Nana, we’re just glad to have you back. Exciting times, eh?
Look after yourself.
Kevin Evans: yes, I think we’re experiencing history in the now, and Vichy Vision ain’t winning.
I think Marx talked about a sudden revolution after periods of stasis. Maybe he’ll be right for once.
Almannysbunnet,
“We rush into this and as soon as Nicola sets a date for a referendum the newspapers and enlightened ones will change right back. I hope I’m wrong.”
No, you are not wrong.
The unionists will definitely change right back.
So will The National.
But this time the people will not be fooled.
The likes of JK Rowling and McLeish can stay on the side they were last time.
We will get independence without them.
https://www.facebook.com/graham.omalley1/posts/10154140334369404
You really need to check out Graham O’Malley’s solution to Brexit!
It sounds just grand to me!
However I would suggest that we get crowdfunding for Tata Steel in Port Talbot….they could manufacture the scissors and we could negotiate a discount if we return them after use for…..em recycling! ?
So, when is the Ceilidh? ??
@Nana
Nice catch on both links Nana. 🙂
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-26/brexit-may-be-scotland-s-chance-to-steal-london-finance-crown
davidb,
“It is not beyond the realms of possibility that the EU itself may implode in the next few months as a direct consequence of this Brexit.”
The EU is not going to implode anytime soon.
The rest actually want the UK (England) out as quickly as possible so they can move forward without the constant hindrance being caused by the UK.
The EU will actually be able to reform itself much better with the UK (England) out of the way.
HandandShrimp
Anna Soubry and others were trying the, ‘it’s past, now reconciliation, coming together’ tactic.
Apart from the intolerance released the cost wasn’t looked at, except by one member in the audience, which was then dismissed as out of time.
£200billion wiped of pensions. £2trillion across the world. people will pay for that, and the exit hasn’t happened yet.
There is nothing more likely to inflame intolerance than lack of resources and poverty. That is yet to come.
@ Thepnr you need to get out more there,s more than Tommy Shepherd reading W O S . wee winky thingies
HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY EVERYONE.?????????????????????
we missed something today folks
it isnt brexit that is the trigger for indyref2, it was polling over 60%
today in sunday post poll,
59% yes
32% no
9% DK
maybe we are already there and are just awaiting conformation?
their wont even be a pm for 3 months, or a leader of labour,
if we have 2 months of +60% yes, we could rush through indyref2 bill and be independent before westminster can press the article 50 button.
On Question Time earlier, we witnessed an English woman verbally attack Alex Salmond, as he was more concerned about Scotland than bringing unity to Westminster, who have brought everything down upon their own heads. Unbelievable!
The English are frustrated that the EU appear to be forcing legislation upon them that they do not want.
They see it unfair that the larger body dilutes or nullifies their choices and preferences.
I doubt that woman would have the sense to read WoS, but how would she feel if she was Scottish and her MPs could only influence the outcome of 0.6% of all Bills passed in Westminster? Yes, for every 200 Bills debated, we Scots can affect the outcome of 1 of these Bills.
How would she feel if the EU just took away 6,000 square miles of their Maritime Waters?
How would she feel she had no elected MPs from her country available to represent their Fishing or Agricultural rights, and a foreign Lord was sent as a token representative?
How would she feel if those abusing her country should say that they have no right to put themselves first.
The majority of the English have been brain washed by the corrupt UK politicians and Media.
Europe should celebrate expelling these fools from their table.
@ Thepnr an a forgoat aboot reading Wee Black Books tae, winky wink.
The conclusion of the constitutional debate in Scotland appears to be at hand. What days to be alive.
Nicola Sturgeon has been excellent- this is her finest hour. Reading Simon Shama’s twitter thingy is instructive- a very intelligent man who opposed Scottish Independence now gushing with praise for our First Minister (and absolutely raging at the state of affairs).
Alex was great on Question Time today too. At turns funny, angry, profound and of course in complete command of his brief. One can only wish the people of England and Wales had people in charge during this debacle that were half as competent.
Everyone is asking where Osborne is hiding. Cameron is the Prime Minister for God’s sake. He has a responsibility to man up and show leadership. Instead he turned his back on the press on Friday and that was it. What a complete abnegation of responsibility.
The vacuum we are witnessing reminds me of the bit in Star Trek where red matter is injected into the core of Vulcan and the planet just collapses in on itself.
Fortunately for us we have a leadership who have not fallen asleep at the controls or retreated to bloody chequers or wherever during the biggest crisis in the UK since WW2 and they are working on beaming us up to the relative safety of the EU.
Lots of pish about the EU- maybe they won’t make it easy for us etc etc. Aye: that is how the EU works. Because it just LOVES contracting doesn’t it!
One thing is crystal clear to me. The EU right now would walk over broken glass to secure Scotland as a member. Hundreds of reasons for this but the opportunity to punish/humiliate/offend rUK/Westminster is absolutely irresistible. We are hearing overtones to this effect already.
And how would we be regarded by our fellow EU states? Not with the derision, the sneering venom, the condescension or the ignorance we are used to.
Maybe we could be the making of a new energised EU.
“The circumstances are redolent with possibilities” as Mr Salmond would say.
Let’s all take a moment to think of Nicola and her team. I just hope that Nicola is not under a great deal of strain. I know she is a very intelligent person with many personal strengths. I wish her well and as has been said I hope she is being well protected and looked after.
Mark Russell,
“England voted out on a mix of anti-establishment anarchy, bigotry and parochialism – but it should be acknowledged that they have given the Establishment a much bigger bloody nose that Scotland did in 2014. Good for them.”
That was my first reaction to the result.
The English “plebs” achieved for us what we ourselves failed to achieve in 2014.
Oh Georgie porgie
nae puddin nae pie
where ur you hiding
and why
come oot of your hidy hole
or weil send the manny
wie the rope on the pole
an drag doon you oot
destination DOLE.
The Cur.
Joanna Cherry’s on R4’s westminster hour, now.
Breeks at 8.03
You are perfectly correct. They cannot stop Scotland holding as many referendums as Scotland wants. The UN Charter and subsequent amendments and supplements to it make this entirely clear.
In a democracy any limitations in the powers of the Scottish Parliament are voluntary. Laws are only legitimate if all parties affected by them agree with them. If the Scottish Parliament decided to vote itself more powers up to full powers it would be entirely entitled to do so.
Anything suggesting this is not actually the case is constitutional bluff.
UK wouldn’t dare to try to stop any democratic advance by Scotland. They don’t own us and we don’t (under the UN Charter) have to ask anybody else’s permission as to how we chose to exercise our own governance.
O/T but: What must now going on in the mind of Boris Johnstone?
Did he join Leave not in the hope of winning the referendum but of narrowly losing it? Did he just want to give Cameron a fright, and a run for his money, but without the intention to topple him? Not yet, at least.
Was his idea simply to get so close to winning – without actually winning – to put himself on everyone’s lips. And in pole position to win the leadership struggle in 2020, when Cameron was due to retire anyway?
If so, he must be wondering what to do now – now that the unthinkable has happened. Because, fundamentally, Bojo is pro-European …
Was it just that that old old temptation to play political games, like his ‘chum’ and rival Cameron seemed to be enjoying so much, got the better of him?
As if this was the school debating society at Eton … and as if it was only a game. And not a playing of childish games with the real lives of real people.
That’s what happens with fantasists living in an ‘as if’ world. Gambler-mad Cameron playing Russian roulette, yet again, and enjoying the fun of it … Or if not Russian roulette then a game of dare, involving the throwing of knives … Enjoying the kinife-edge excitement … jolly good, chaps … until the knife slips, and the luck runs out.
Third time unlucky, Dave.
But lucky you – your finally unfortunate roll of the dice this time won’t affect you; the jolly old lifestyle will continue … You have all the built-in guarantees you need for yourself.
Those who suffer from it will be other people … who don’t really exist in the fantasy world you inhabit. They are ‘real world’ people. So, who cares?
Bojo, too, just like Dave, is an educated man, of course. He must surely know the line: ‘He who wields the dagger never wears the crown.’ If he had forgotten it, it might be coming back to him now … How can he limit its damage? Get over it? Is that ‘never’ really NEVER!?
Heseltine should have known it too, in days gone by.
Doesn’t Bojo’s victory mean the end of the road not just for old rival Cameron, but also for dagger-wielding Bojo too?
Game ends.
I don’t know the answer to these questions, and they don’t really matter. But the new question that might matter is: who is going to be the first Brexiteer PM at Westminster? And the last of the (dying) UK as we used to know it …
Could it be Philip Hammond?
No friend of Scotland, for sure.
Nicola Sturgeon will just have to overrun him. And even if it’s not Hammond, she will have to overrun, and often ignore, whoever it is instead.
She is right that her top priority at the moment must be to guarantee Scotland’s continued membership of the EU. She has to negotiate that hard and fast, and get it guaranteed. If she waits to be given that capacity from the likes of Hammand, or whoever, she will never get it.
Nicola has no option. She must act on the assumption that the referndum result in Scotland has given her the mandate to negotiate Scotland’s continued membership directly, no matter what anyone at Westminster might say to the contrary. And the EU had better listen to her.
And she will be right to do so, even legally. To act otherwise would be to deny the assumption of all of us that the people are sovereign in Scotland. The people of Scotland haven’t just given her a mandate to keep Scotland in Europe: they have obliged her to do just that. She does not have the right to abrogate or override the constitutional principles that form the basis of the Scottish polity.
Whether the people of England are sovereign in England might be another story, but Scotland does not have to decide that, or even worry about it.
Mind you, it’;s an interesting point, and the EU referendum raises many questions about that one too. I don’t think the English people have ever been recognised as sovereign in England. The EU referendum might be a game-changer in that regard.
It could be argued that the English people’s sovereignty in England is a natural right which belongs to them, but which they have always been denied. Instead their sovereign, or their ‘sovereign in parliament’ or, effectively, just their parliament, has been sovereign, ruling over them.
So the parliament at Westminster, being sovereign in England, could overrule the English people, and simply decide to ignore the way these people voted in the EU referendum. The Scottish parliament could never do that in regard to the way the Scottish people voted.
But what would happen if the Westminster politicians did do this to the English people?
Would the English people put up with it?
How would the Brexiteers react?
Maybe Referendum-Addicted Cameron has finally undermined the sovereignty of his jolly old parliament. Once and for all. Even English people will no longr put up with this nonsense.
Is this a case of ‘English votes for English laws’ coming home to roost? Maybe the English people … for better, or for worse … are beginning to find their voice.
Maybe they are beginning to exercise that sovereignty which ought to be theirs, but which they got into the habit of giving away. Dumping it on their beloved toffs, and lords and masters, and other elites – even Labour ones. All of whom greedily gobbled up the rights of the people, and turned them into their own possessions.
The ‘constitutional issue’, as the pundits call it (in their unthought-through shorthand), isn’t just about Scotland – it’s about England too.
Who governs England? And by what authority?
Are the days of the ‘unwritten constitution’, open to unending manipulation and re-manipulation according to circumstnce and opportunity, now numbered?
Even in England? An England which is certainly ‘old’, but not so ‘jolly’ any longer?
Oh Boris, what have you done? Why, oh why, did you wield that dagger?
That golden golden dagger, as brightly shining as your own golden locks … The one you saw before your eyes, glittering in the sunlight in the outstretched hands of that knightly Nigel Mirage, … when you saw Knight Nigel on his white charger in that wonderful Midsummer’s-Night(-to-be) Dream … offering that shining dagger so kindly and smilingly to you … as the means, not to kill Brave Dave but to bury him all the same, by ever-so-narrowly yet ever-so-valiantly losing to him in the midsummer of 2016 … Enough to cripple Dave, but yet to let him stagger on, to be finally finished off by others … and then, only then you would reappear, as the unifier of the Party, to claim the brightly shining crown and have the faithfully plant it firmly on your head. It might be in 2020, when Old Boy-Dave would finally bow out, or it might be before then, but the golden crown would certainly fit snugly on your golden, curly head …
With Brexit forgotten, Nigel lost (and) at sea, the country (whatever you call it) all yours, this Sceptred Isle would be firmly in your grasp and … and … you the steersman … But … alas! alas!
Now … And now? Oh Boris, well may you hang your head … If only you had listened … If only you could have read some other poets, and learned to dance to some other tunes … If only you had known what so oft happens to mice and men, and all their best-laid schemes …
And there you are, hanging your head, laid low, stuck with a victory too soon, choking on the toxic fumes of xenophobia and narcissism and nostalgia that your alliance with Knight Nigel has unleashed, spreading its poisoned gases throughout the length and breadth of England.
Boris, has it come to this?
You for ever sullied as one of the Three Witches of Brexit, Nigle, Bors and Gove. Stuck, utterly stuck, besmirched and sodden-through with all that toxic waste, on which once-proud dreams now wither … and turn to dust.
Alas, poor Boris!
On another thread, Robert J. Sutherland kindly offered a warm welcome to friends of mine who are leaving/making plans to leave England for Scotland as a result of the referendum vote; I have passed that welcome along to the people in question. While I don’t have permission to disclose personal identifying information (at least not until all the employment paperwork is signed), I can say that two of them are lecturers at the same uni, though in different disciplines.
While this is anecdata — and so worth what you’ve paid for it — one of them is a historian, who said she cast a professional eye over the situation, thought about possible likely outcomes for herself and her family, and has started quietly moving them all towards the “door”.
Daily record about to release a survation poll at 10:30. Last poll from survation on 20th April was 52N/48Y.
Nicola etc can freely walked the streets embraced by well wishers everywhere they go. Farague and Cameron etc can only go anywhere with a Police guard. Cameron was going about in an Aston Martin. Johnston is being booed in the streets. Needs a police guard.
Ooft!
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZC0QT
Apparently there is a poll coming out a 10.30pm commissioned by the Daily Record.
Oh, I really have no idea what the result of that poll will be.
Given what we’ve seen from little england over the past few weeks, and especially the past few days, I doubt very much that there is anyone left in Scotland willing to take advice from south of the border on how to do politics.
Better together? Are you kidding? With that lot?
It must not be forgotten that Iceland was the only country in the world which openly supported Scottish independence in 2014.
Not a single one of our newly found EU friends was in our favour. Most spoke against.
For me Iceland will be Scotland’s best friend after independence, ahead of Ireland and England.
Good luck to the Icelandic football team in tomorrow’s match.
@DMH: but you haven’t canvassed Ruthie about her views. She’s been locked up for four days pondering what to mount next.
Endgame approacheth.
You say sooth.
@Epiphyta –
Sorry to hear of your friend’s predicament.
As the tweets from Simon Schama demonstrate, the Tories/Brexit Bunch have made some serious enemies in academia.
Prof John Robertson of UWS fought a lonely battle against the BBC over indy-related bias and they made a very unsubtle effort to have him nobbled. The silence of his peers was deafening, and shameful.
Now that the bigotry is being felt across the entire academic community (which will rapidly be familiarising itself with the same issues we’ve been dissecting for years) we should expect to see a concerted campaign against what the State is doing.
Whether or not we will is, of course, another matter.
@ Ian Brotherhood ah jist checked ma avitar Osbourn’s no in there lol
I’m singularly unimpressed with the argument that EU mandated legislation all has to be meticulously amended and that’s an incredulously difficult task. Sounds like the opening line to a joke that ends with the great idea that they should all be scrapped and only those ‘we’ think necessary be reintroduced. Same as any influence of ECHR legislation would be dealt with by abolishing it all and replacing it with a “British” bill of rights.
Both are con jobs easier to achieve by a bill to derecognize the EU and ECHR as having any authority in the UK. The proposed approach seems like a way of fooling the Westminster parliament into repealing legislation en mass that they’d otherwise refuse to on a case by case basis.
Reasons why Farage and UKIP got power
Farage is a great speaker, with the power to make people support him.
The moderate political parties would not work together, although together they had more support than UKIP.
The recession created poverty and unemployment, which made people angry with the Westminster government. People lost confidence in the democratic system and turned towards the extremist political parties such as UKIP during the depression.
The Right wing UK extremist attacked Jo Cox.
UKIP’s immigration campaign was very effective and it won support for the UKIPERS. UKIP targeted specific groups of society with different slogans and policies to win their support.
Farage is going to be given power in a seedy political deal by the tories who foolishly think they can control him.
Poeple in England people are angry about the EU and support Farage because he has promised to overturn it.
Opportunistic fat cats have given UKIP money and support.
OK HAVE YOU READ THAT.
NOW HERE IS THE ORIGINAL TEXT BEFORE I CHANGE VERY FEW WORDS.
Reasons why Hitler rose to power
Hitler was a great speaker, with the power to make people support him.
The moderate political parties would not work together, although together they had more support than the Nazis.
The depression of 1929 created poverty and unemployment, which made people angry with the Weimar government. People lost confidence in the democratic system and turned towards the extremist political parties such as the Communists and Nazis during the depression.
The Nazi storm troopers attacked Hitler’s opponents.
Goebbels’ propaganda campaign was very effective and it won support for the Nazis. The Nazis targeted specific groups of society with different slogans and policies to win their support.
Hitler was given power in a seedy political deal by Hindenburg and Papenwho foolishly thought they could control him.
German people were still angry about the Treaty of Versailles and supported Hitler because he promised to overturn it.
Industrialists gave Hitler money and support.
The previous eight suggestions about why Hitler rose to power fall into three categories:
outside events
strengths of Hitler and the Nazi party
weaknesses of other political parties
I am old enough to have struggled through a number of surprises but finding the Sunday Mail (no,not the Mail on Sunday) shouting for another independence referendum today probably tops it all.
Tinto Chiel at 10.19
I hope you weren’t being rude there.
@laukat
That might explain the Saturday headlines.
I’ll bet Nana’s on it 🙂
Can we expect Deputy Deadwood to make her position clear on
EU ref & Indy2 & Corbyn.
Will the victors Boris & Gove conjure a plan ‘B’
Will Osborne emerge from hiding & resign
Tune in for another hectic day tomorrow!
Oh! Radio 4 now.
J. Cherry outlines the Scottish position on EU and says it’s up to England & Wales to sort out their difficulties.
The victors darn Sarf are looking to the losers to come up with a plan and their is no effective government in WM.
She’ll be talking about Indy2 soon.
It seems to be moving at a fast pace
with both the Tory’s and Labour in melt down
If Scotland is to remain in the EU, it is clear that it has two options
Option 1 Remain part of the UK but a member of the EU
Option 2 End the UK, go independent and be a member of the EU
Option 1 could be difficult to operate as Scotland would be saddled with interference from Westminster, so regardless of what Dugdale and Davidson may wish.
Option 2 Just go for independence and end once and for all the UK
and join/retain EU membership
Reading the Reuters article which came from the German ‘Welt am Sonntag’ newspaper, Scotland would be pushing on an open door!
Reading what the Germans are saying, it would be seen as a continuing membership (there words ‘still be 28 member states)
Both Labour and the Tory’s in Scotland really should start seeing the reality and get on side, same goes for the Greens and the LibDems.
The other article from Bloomberg is also interesting as it adds what would come Scotland’s way if Scotland goes independent and is an EU member, with Edinburgh becoming an EU banking hub
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-26/brexit-may-be-scotland-s-chance-to-steal-london-finance-crown
The way its going in England they are going down the toilet
Time to get the Wingy band back on the road – ronnie anderson have you got some dates big man xx
Pound is plummeting on Asian markets and Japanese markets have stopped trading it due to nosedive,we live in interesting times.
If bccqt is an average English audience it is time to go before they destroy us.Christ when you think Anna Soubray is one of there reasonable sounding ones things must be bad.
It’s weird listening to all the talk about a possible re-run of the EU referendum just days after the result was declared. One positive outcome of such a re-run, however, would be that it would become very easy to shut people up when they misquote Alex Salmond’s “once-in-a-generation” comment regarding indyref.
More BBC Project Fear 2014 deja vu just there, usual Sarah Smith’s SNPbad plus weird BBC camera angles and close ups of hands, in hand wringing anxiety presumably, could have been Sturgeon’s hands but not clear. Here we go again with the BBC UKOK psycho creep out.
(Please note that I have changed my name, and I will make it legal by deed poll in the near future. I write this because you have not been posting my comments recently, and they have been relevant.)
The petition going round that the vote be annulled if the remain or leave vote was less than 60% from a turnout of less than 75% is a call to change the rules after the game has been played. That would be unjust. Many of the signatures are fraudulent.
DR poll in: 54% Yes
https://archive.is/2IfdT
I suspect Call Me Dave wishes he had given 16 and 17 year olds the vote – I suspect the outcome may well have been different.
Survation poll for Daily Record says 54Y/46N
@DMH: hehehehehehe!
I meant, yeah, yeah and thrice yeah.
I’m confused. Are we approaching end of days? I mean the Sunday Mail!
Sheesh!
You can’t have a re-run of the EU referendum until the democratic result is honoured, that is until the UK leaves the EU. Only then could you have another EU referendum to see if people wanted to rejoin.
I now think that war has been declared on Scotland by the GCHQ management at the BBC.
There was no mention at all of Scotland or NS on the headlines for the BBC news at ten.
There is clearly a news blackout policy in operation.
..been some interesting and some funny moments during all this chaos…then..Rock..
..Rock says:
26 June, 2016 at 8:28 pm
“There may be many uncertainties.
But one thing is absolutely, 100% certain.
According to Scotland’s top historic, geographical, legal and constitutional expert, ROBERT PEFFERS, Scotland does not need Westminster’s approval to hold an independence referendum.”
…
its only YOU – Rock..who doesn’t know the difference between
(a) researched OPINION.
(b) almost everything YOU write.
(c) a fanny
Can it be?
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/747182115628924928?lang=en-gb
Cherry reminds her fellow panelists who are keen on a snap GE that it’s much harder to do now as it’s supposed to be fixed term and requires 2/3 Maj to trigger it.
Cherry on Indy2 asked if Sect 2 Sewel can Holyrood ‘block’ Brexit
Cherry says it’s a disputed topic but SG will not give consent and WM will disagree what happens then….
There are two sides to the question.
Cherry:
Sturgeon gave an honest answer and she set out her position clearly unlike the WM lot.
Presenter implying Scotland will have to reapply to join EU
Cherry disagrees and quotes EU sources saying they welcome Scotland. Presenter cuts her off a bit hastily! 🙂
So it goes. Worth a listen. Cherry is a star!
Sorry (there their) earlier 🙁
Link for the story in the Daily Record re: 54% YES:-
“Indy ref 2: Poll says up to 500,000 No voters would switch sides in event of second referendum”
http://archive.is/kEU4K
@Wullie
Sturgeon was on TV (of course) and my wife said she looked very ired. She should get a good night’s sleep, Scotland insists on it.
According to Anna Soubry on QT, Osborne is at his desk, taking calls, dealing with it all and bringing stability.
Zat right?
He’s at his desk, mibbes, aye…:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJUt_x0gwug
and another thing…
..to those who say we should extend an olive branch to “converted” ( via twitter) unionists..
..i’d say be very careful..
..any olive branches should be held at arms length – and lit facing away from the body politic..
..any actual olives constitute a choking hazard, so on second thoughts..
Don’t lets kid ourselves on. We were full of hubris before September 2014.
The German papers also carry a piece saying the rest of Europe can get on with its project. London influenced a lot of that. The “British” position was more free market than some other states, and a lot of restrictive and protectionist legislation was kept at bay.
I read that there ARE plans for a European Army. Britain alone opposed that. I visited Finland and Estonia years ago and it was plain to me that the EU should really have an army. If we are to fight this campaign on the EU we have to be honest about it and to carefully explain why Europe is good, and where it is bad. If the remain side had done that we wouldn’t be here now.
Ireland is competing with us to secure finance companies. It is typically “fog in channel, continent cut off” to assume that Scotland is favoured particularly. And Edinburgh houses are ridiculously overpriced already. Do we need more overpaid wideboys buying every flat in our capital for crazy money?
This will not be an easy sell to a lot of people. And we still have the Propaganda Ministry and the Unionist Cell at PQ fighting us 100%.
Ruth Davidson says Indyref2 will lead to instability
Thanks to the Tories EU referendum:
England has voted to leave the EU
The £ has fallen through the floor
Major companies are pulling out of the UK
Cameron’s Remain camp had no contingency plan if they lost
Boris Johnson’s Leave camp had no contingency plan if they won. Corbyn didn’t care either way
The Prime Minister has resigned
The Chancellor has gone into hiding
Half the shadow cabinet has resigned
There appears to be no leadership south of the border
People in England are desperately pleading for a re-run of the referendum
Bigots in England emboldened by the Leave camp winning are now openly abusing foreigners in the streets…
…and that’s just for starters…
…and Ruth Davidson says a Scottish referendum will lead to instability?
Oi leave Rock alone – he’s entitled to be a lone voice.
Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp: ‘Better Together’s broken promises open the door to independence.’
”Scottish voters and especially the the 177,000 estimated EU citizens that live in Scotland were threatened with expulsion from the EU if we voted Yes in 2014. This was a major factor in securing the NO vote ….”
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/better-togethers-broken-promises-open-the-door-to-independence/
…………………………………………………..
@ Tam Jardine says at 9:56 pm …. ”Lots of pish about the EU- maybe they won’t make it easy for us etc etc. Aye: that is how the EU works. Because it just LOVES contracting doesn’t it! One thing is crystal clear to me. The EU right now would walk over broken glass to secure Scotland as a member…..”
Take a look Tam.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-scotland-germany-idUSKCN0ZC0QT
…………………………………………
@ ronnie anderson says at 10:21 pm …. ”Ian Brotherhood ah jist checked ma avitar Osbourn’s no in there lol.”
Alex Salmond reckons he’ll resign next week Ronnie. Mair bad ..eh … good news … until we find out who’ll take over the poisoned chalice from him.
………………………………………
WGD: ‘Fine dining with Donner party Britain.’
”Like most of the rest of the country, I’ve been struggling to keep up with developments as Britain discovers that Boris Johnson, that famous scholar of the Classics, failed to explain before the referendum that Brexit was actually Ancient Greek for “ohmygod, I don’t have a clue what to do now”.”
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/06/26/fine-dining-with-donner-party-britain/
Oh good grief according to the torygraph Osborne has been offered the job of foreign sec by Gove and Boris.
@yesindyref2
@Wullie
Good advice I hope she takes some chill out time because she has put in the miles since Friday and it’s a hard shift.
@laukat
Good catch.
I’ll get the ‘left behind Scottish Chumpion’ tomorrow and catch the poll story. Half expect Deputy Deadwood to have rewritten her script by that time.
I expect James will have posted the poll on Scot Goes Pop
What a day.
oooft ooft
daily record poll
48.7% yes
41.3% no
9% dk
Survation
Yes 47.0%
No 41.2%
The polls have Yes with a substantial lead now, and I am willing to bet those polls do not include 16 and 17 year olds who would be permitted to vote in Indy ref and will likely be very keen to make sure we stay in Europe.
Not sure if the polls would also include EU citizens, many of whom I imagine voted No in indyref 1 due to the Europe lies if they voted at all.
So basically, I think the polls will be underestimating the Yes vote.
Ok hands up I admit it I voted leave the only consolation is It tipped the Englanders over the cliff it was my fault and for that I am sincerely repentant .
However I think Its going a touch to far and we are going to witness out of the cage unmasked racist abuse rising in a few parts of England with calls for repatriation already being mooted UKIP are on a roll and won’t be able to control some of its more unhinged followers this will be exacerbated when the stock markets open in the morning and it finally dawns on them that there is no plan A never mind a plan B , this was admited to Faisal Islam of SKY news by a Tory MP he couldn’t believe it , This Tory MP thought No 10 had a plan oh f/ck this isn’t funny anymore .
Habib Steele,
Who on here cares a flying toss about that, one way or another?
Got anything more relevant to say?
HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY EVERYONE.?????????????????????
When Nicola was interviewed Brewer he asked if Scotland would block the UK exit. She clearly responded that she would look at any proposal and promote and protect the Scottish position in any proposal, as is her responsibility
This was instantly re reported as Sturgeon would veto the UK exit despite the democratic wished of Britain and a constitutional expert suddenly appears to counter her misreported position.
BBC at its usual tricks to make an anti Sturgeon point
You wonder why the BBC could never find a handy expert to rubbish all the project fear claims either during the Scottish Referendum of the EU one.
Just asking!!!!!
OK I joke
Paula Rose, fair enough,
..but why (allow Rock to) stick the boot into R.Peffers entitlement – cheap insults, versus…er …everything else.
The stony (arsed) one confuses me..
As Indy2 forms up the BBC will be on a war footing
There are lies, damned lies and the BBC
@ Paula Rose All Under One Banner demo coming up soon . Spoke to Neil on Sat so wait and see, he,s finalising things with Police
Britnats in their scotland region are more and more tormented souls. Someone told him to kill himself or join the tories.
Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 4h4 hours ago
Alex Salmond genuinely just said political leaders need to abide by the decision of the electorate. Except for voters in Scotland eh? #bbcqt
@ Jimbo
Excellent summary. A great laugh. Ruth Davidson says a Scottish referendum will lead to instability!
Tomorrow is going to be another , magical mystery tour from those wonderful people who brought you a sound economy. I can’t keep up with all the stability we’re enjoying these days.
Red tories might have got away with this kind of stuff in 97, certainly not now though, not after their catastrophic Brown years of “My Scotland, your Britain” stuff, even with JC clinging on.
Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 4m4 minutes ago
Politics used to be about winning rights & building better futures. Now it’s about lines on maps, abstract power & magnifying difference. 🙁
Has QT re run been pulled from the schedule tonight ?
Supposed to be on from 10.35 / 11.35 on BBC 1
Seems to be Room 101 thats on instead..!
Maybe scared it would encourage us to vote for independence even more if we watched that utter shambles ?
@louis.b.argyll –
Hey there brother/sister, it’s an unofficial rota, where folk take turns to tell that boring fud to GTF.
Today his target was Robert Peffers, tomorrow it might be Paula Rose, you, or Ronnie, whoever…
Thanks for taking your turn – now you don’t have to do it for a while!
🙂
@Nana at 10:45pm
Daily Record has been using JABA’s abacus again.
Ach!
Our (not) Scottish Auntie is auntie and will continue to offer us all the best BBC shortbread she can afford.
Her union jack bloomers, which we all began to see during the referendum, will slip off completely soon revealing what an arse she really is to more and more.
Don’t pay the licence.
@edward 10.32
Option 1 is far more beguiling than it might appear at first
The truth is that 50% of regulations and laws do come from Europe, whatever The Remain campaign said.
These will all have to pass through Holyrood instead of Westmonster
It’s effectively cutting London out of a swath of law – and effectively devolving these powers to Scotland
The spondulicks would have to follow from Westmonster to match, and furthermore the divvying up of EU dosh at at present in Westmonster would no longer be at the disadvantage of Scotland – eg Agriculture
It’s an enormous fear-reducing step to independence, much more likely to be easily supported by soft Yesses. Suspect a reverse Greenland would be most attractive to Nichola. The ex Irish President Mary McAleese has already called for this for both Scotland and NI.
With the triumphant Brexiteers “there is no plan A never mind a plan B”.
How true, RG, how very true. And from a self-confessed Leave voter, at that!
(Out of kindness I will gently overlook the obvious deduction from combining those two things.)
Pleasantly plump Blair MacDougal RT’s this dude and Daily Records
Aidan Kerr ?@AidanKerrPol 41m41 minutes ago
Breaking: Poll on Scottish independence
Yes 54%
No 46%
(Survation/DR, excluding don’t knows)
and “Up to 500 million NO voters would switch to yes in the event…”
That’s a lot of NO voters, even for these historic frauds.
@geeo
QT now on Radio 5 (repeat from the TV version earlier tonight)
If I see Sturgeon meeting with Angela Merkel at some point I think I’m going to have a wee greet! That sight of her in Bute house between the saltire and the EU stars almost did it.
Brexit, brought to you by the same people who thought Thatcher was clever to start a war with the Argentine to save the Tories.
As I said on another thread,
Holyrood may not “legally” be able to legislate on reserved matters. That doesn’t mean they can’t discuss them. In turn that means they can hold carefully worded referenda so as to better inform those discussions.
Even better is that as the only sovereignty Westminster has in Scotland is that delegated via our MPs then Holyrood could request their withdrawal which any neutral observer would take as meaning any pretence at legal authority of Westminster over Scotland would vanish.
On the other hand the ongoing election expenses scandal might result in a temporary loss of the Tory majority until new elections can be held. Scotlands MPs might be pivitol at that time. Which might be another reason for the desperation for another GE. If it’s arranged that it’s the party rather than individuals taking the blame then there’s no need for reelection. The original elections becoming void would become academic if new elections have already been held.
What a total embarrassment! this from Bloomberg,
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-26/brexit-cricket-and-coups-the-latest-questions-on-what-s-next
‘Does the U.K. have a Brexit plan yet?
If there is one, no one has shared it. ‘
‘Where is Boris Johnson?
Johnson kept a low profile this weekend. On Saturday, he took part in a charity cricket match…’
‘What are the other key players saying?
Not much. In fact, the U.K. seems to be without a government or an opposition right now….’
‘Did Labour’s deputy leader really go to Glastonbury?
Yes. And he posted everything from the music festival on Snapchat…kept followers fully informed on his consumption of craft beer and cider…’
Well worth the cringing read. I mean this is Bloomberg’s, hardly the stuff to steady the markets. Could be a real blood bath tomorrow.
@ Brian Doonthetoon says at 10:46 pm …. ”Link for the story in the Daily Record re: 54% YES:-
“Indy ref 2: Poll says up to 500,000 No voters would switch sides in event of second referendum””
http://archive.is/kEU4K
I wonder how many of that number voted for Ruth Davidson? She’ll soon be left with no one other than her Orange Order supporters and that’s what I call ‘instability’. Toot, toot, bang, bang.
……………………………………………
C’mon SLab get real your party (bosses) in England is experiencing spontaneous human combustion. In other words it’s finished. Breakaway and join the Independence movement. Front page of the Daily Record next week. Come with us or be left behind (for eternity).
Listening to Joanne Cherry on Westminster Hour, I am very glad she is on our side. She is fantastic. I got the impression that if Holyrood refuses to approve withdrawal from EU (as they must, with all parties opposing Brexit, and 62% in the referendum), and UK go ahead anyway, we are in a constitutional impasse – and she didn’t say this, but I wonder if that by itself could mean the end of the union.
One of Scottish histories contemporary parcel of rogues says he isn’t, he’s an internationalist. He’s got some front has old Bliar, terrorised the life out of Scotland 2014 with his BBC chums but
https://medium.com/@blairmcdougall/as-an-internationalist-the-referendum-has-left-me-heartbroken-501bda3c6ec9#.afxzp2my1
“However disheartening it is for internationalists to now face nationalist governments in both Holyrood and Westminster, however angry we may be at the decision some parts of England and Wales made on Thursday, the answer to division isn’t to rush into more division.
The forces of reaction have taken us out of the EU. It is a tragedy. Only an approach guided by reason, however difficult that is to summon today, will make sure the damage is not compounded here in Scotland.
I recently decided it was time to take a break from working in Labour politics. We all need to pause and take time to think.”
As con artists go that’s not bad really. Blair probably didn’t completely destroy SLabour’s 70+ year hegemony over Scotland but he certainly delivered the coup de grâce.
Wonder if he’ll have ever have the decency to address that in his shitty wee blog of internationalism.
With regard to Brexit blocking, it won’t happen.Westminster would override it in any case.Refusal of consent is not a veto..The SNP are doing us proud and can be trusted not to jeopardise Scottish interests. The BBC cannot be trusted in any way whatsoever.They are a predatory bunch of pathological liars who infect our body politic with their sneering contempt for our people and culture and politics.They are stuck in the past and have no part to play in our future.
Nicola is calling the shots, the gloves are off and all the arguments are now in our favour for Independence.
I’ve just found George Osbourne !
He’s in a Florida classroom reading ‘My Pet Goat’ to the kids.
Ian Brotherhood @ 10.29:
Thank you.
Schama’s writing some splendid stuff on Twitter. I hadn’t read the Wolf piece in the FT, and will be sending the link about.
I don’t know why she did not speak out more forcefully: I am not an academic, myself, but having seen how non-white women can face after taking a public stance on an issue — I can’t presume to tell someone else what level of risk, to employment or their person, they should find acceptable. She is educating herself rapidly on matters now, and hopefully will find she has the support she needs to call out bias . . . certainly, she has mine.
The wife reckons Beelzebub Bliar and Crash will be resurrected from the dark depths of the Westminster waste land to calm the labour party.
Hence No publication of Chilcot.
Looks like the “Establishment” will try and blame the SNP for the implosion of the Empire.
Had conversations with some folks today the “feel good” factor is definitely growing on previous Nay Sayers.
BBC Shortbread “Your FCUKD” its not working.(any guesses what pish the tart fae the valleys wi an E will be rambling on about in the morning.
Indy Ref2. AYE-Gunderson.
On a serious note, What the f8ck is Brillo doing with his bunnet? Antique Pine or russet cuprinol, certainly makes Trumpets bunnet look realistic.
@ cearc
Quite. Listening to Question Time and news etc, and they are talking about 1922 committee, leadership election, party conference, November, do we need a GE, next May, all before deigning to invoke Article 50. What planet are these people on? They think everything revolves around them. Will Dave be telling the EU leaders on Tuesday, sorry we can’t invoke Article 50 until the 1922 committee has sat and we’ve had a party conference etc. They will just go WTF just get your ass out of here youre a laughing stock!
Foreign news now…. and no substantial change for our Catalan friends:
[Just had an interesting thought: would Catalan TV not be approached to host some Scottish indy broadcasting?]
http://www.catalannewsagency.com/politics
Alternative left coalition ‘En Comú Podem’ has won the 2016 Spanish Elections in Catalonia. The party, which has Barcelona mayor Ada Colau as its strongest asset, obtained 12 MPs, the same number of MPs as in the last Spanish Elections, held in December 2015. Pro-independence left-wing ERC also repeated the same results as 2015, with 9 seats and CDC, which ran under the name ‘Democràcia i Llibertat’ in the last Spanish Elections, also got the same result and obtained 8 MPs. The Catalan Socialist Party (PSC) added one seat to their 7 existing seats in the Spanish Parliament, the Conservative People’s Party (PP) got 6 MPs, one more than in the last Elections, and Spanish Unionist Ciutadans was the only party to lose a seat and has now 4 MPs. In the whole of Spain PP again won the elections and improved their results, with 137 MPs, 14 more than in December 2015. Thus, the political panorama in Catalonia and Spain remains the same as after the last Spanish Elections.
Where’s Jim?
‘Letters II: SNP leadership are promoting Project Deception on EU vote.’
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/letters-ii-snp-leadership-are-promoting-project-deception-on-eu-vote.19110
@tartanfever
Decon imediately, hazmat on its way, full scrub, detox.
If Holyrood blocks Brexit — and it has the constitutional right to do so, indeed is required to do so as the elected representatives of the sovereign people of Scotland — then the only solution for the UK referendum result to be honoured is… to repeal the Act of Union.
Another angle the EU might take is concocting or otherwise a reason to suspend the UK’s membership. Even something like attempting to ignore the Brexit result could be played as a human rights breech. Trying to outlaw indyref#2 would do it too.
I agree with Craig Murray. Do it now. There must be a legal document that can be put together to end this Union. If we are not A Nation why was the Scottish vote separate?
They have broken the equality of the Union and gone against our wishes therefore we are leaving this Union Now.
Get our MP’s back here and just leave and let every Scot in the World know that they’re Country needs them.
Oh. And tell the United Nations too. Just to be polite sort of thing.
Do it Tomorrow. Screw a referendum. We just had one which said we totally disagree so goodbye.
And…
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-26/cameron-to-address-lawmakers-as-u-k-drifts-rudderless-to-brexit
‘“The total lack of leadership in the wake of the referendum is probably even more worrying than the vote’s unexpected outcome,” wrote Carsten Nickel, deputy director of research at Teneo Intelligence, in a research note. “U.K. domestic politics should be considered as a source of political risk for the foreseeable future.”
The Asian markets are open and the pound’s falling, not exactly a surprise.
All the drama about politics has ruined a great story about Council Leader Martin Kitts- Hayes who cut short a trip to Denmark because the Legoland accommodation wasn’t up to the standard he expects.
Martin – it’s Denmark, it’s Legoland. Worth a chortle. Oh – he’s a Progressive Independent ???
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-36595235
@Petra
You can always rely on Jim Sillars.
Umm …
Keep forgetting to post this.
Cameron voted against Juncker being president of the commission. Guess who’s getting his revenge?
Cadogan Enright @ 11.20 pm
Another thought on option 1 is a kind of mix of Denmark/Faroes and Norway/Sweden
Denmark is an EU member and the Faroes which is part of the Kingdom of Denmark, so for Scotland/England would be Scotland the member state and England not. Layer in Northern Ireland as also part of Scotland’s EU membership? something like that?
Norway is not a member of the EU, but is a member of EFTA, but shares a land border with Sweden, which is a member of the EU
so a bit of an England Scotland scenario.
What will be important (just read the STV story on the Libdems) is for the Scottish Government to be seen to e exploring all possible avenues short of independence. At the end of the day there may be no other way than to have independence to be in the EU.
Personally I prefer independence as it would be easier to manage for the EU membership, but you can only convince soft and hard No’s by proving that every avenue has been explored
It is going to be a very exhausting time for Nicola Sturgeon and her team, so its important to get everyone on side
Curiously the current president of the Irish Republic will be in Holyrood on Wednesday, so more opportunity to discuss the way forward
A word of caution. Scotland could still be “screwed” by the EU.
Scotland is NOT an independent nation. And Germany now faces the prospect of having to pay an extra 3 billion euros a year to the annual EU budget once Britain leaves.
So German government officials are proposing that Britain is offered “constructive exit negotiations” to keep their dues coming in. Some are now talking about a quasi-membership for the UK, calling it an “associated partner country” to keep the money flowing.
This might be acceptable to all parties — and might even pass a second Brexit referendum. But what would it do to Scottish indy? Would it dampen calls for indyref2?
You can see the difficult for Nicola, who has to tread VERY carefully… Because we are not independent, those who run Europe owe us nothing — and can whip the carpet out from under our feet if it is a question of money and holding the whole EU together… (just look at Greece and THEIR bailout referendum).
So let us not get ahead of ourselves. But let us show that the SNP offers competent government when the rUK does not — and let us be very kind and welcoming to NO voters now expressing interest in voting YES… because we may need their goodwill very much if things do not go the way we hope they will…
louis.b.argyll,
“its only YOU – Rock..who doesn’t know the difference between
(a) researched OPINION.”
Researched OPINION or PISH?
Go and read Robert Peffers’ pish about Hadrian’s wall on the ‘Getting ourselves together’ article:
“You fancy yourself as a historian Robert, yet there you are peddling the pish about Hadrian’s wall, perpetrated by English revisionist historians about it being a ‘custom’s post’. Some Customs’ post!”
Rightly put into place by someone actually with a Researched OPINION.
@Epiphyta –
Why haven’t we seen you here before now?
Please keep posting.
Good stuff.
🙂
Daily Record Survation poll tomorrow. 54% would vote yes if ref was tomorrow. 500,000 would switch sides.
Well c’mon Nicola what’s keeping you! ?
Glamaig says:
26 June, 2016 at 11:33 pm
Listening to Joanne Cherry on Westminster Hour, I am very glad she is on our side. She is fantastic. I got the impression that if Holyrood refuses to approve withdrawal from EU (as they must, with all parties opposing Brexit, and 62% in the referendum), and UK go ahead anyway, we are in a constitutional impasse – and she didn’t say this, but I wonder if that by itself could mean the end of the union.
As far as I am aware, with 54 MPs, the end of the union can legally be declared at any time (it would be challenged obviously) as a nuclear option. The ref route is preferred, however, since it avoids the legal problems and it only comes to pass if a majority of the people are already onside. With a Scottish majority against Brexit, the SG can play really hardball with this. Get your popcorn before stocks run out. 🙂
Kenny @ 12.08 am
Probably explains why Germany are more than just kean to have Scotland a member of the EU as a continuing member thats independent 🙂
By the way MSM not having much of a peep on this which is good as I dont want these freaks of the media spouting there usual cant do that guff
Rock Honey – do you want to borrow my history primer.
@ Stewartb says at 3:09 pm …. ”ahundredthidiot @ 2.23pm said “So, what if England says no to us using sterling?”
”That is not within England’s gift and not just because ‘it is our Pound too’ but because as a traded currency any country could use it if it chooses to do so without any formal agreement.
But then sceptics might say that pro-indy people would say that anyway. So here is something from an organisation I really never thought I’d link to: the Adam Smith Institute – hardly a proponent a progressive Scotland.
This right wing, libertarian think tank has offered a view on why an independent Scotland COULD use the Pound if it wishes without entering a currency union with the rUK. It goes further and argues that Scotland SHOULD as it would be advantageous to do so.
With certain caveats in terms of banking reform – it refers to “adaptive sterlingization” – the ASI paper states: “There is ample evidence from history and economic theory that an independent Scotland would not suffer from being outside a currency union with the rest of the United Kingdom.”
(Source: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/56eddde762cd9413e151ac92/t/56f71f2fecb92886bb6cfe45/1459035956886/ScotlandSterlingPaperPress.pdf )
My main point here, ahundredthidiot, is to show that despite what the Better Together campaign sought to imply in 2014, Scotland does have credible options on currency that are not reliant on permission from an rUK government.”
………………………………………………….
Adam Smith Institute – Conclusion:
There is ample evidence from history and economic theory that an independent Scotland would not suffer from being outside a currency union with the rest of the United Kingdom. But it would be best if it was done alongside a programme of financial reforms that did not give any bank or group of banks monopoly powers on note-issuance and allowed the market to decide what money to use.
This ‘adaptive sterlingization’ would allow private banks to issue their own promissory notes, backed by reserves of GBP (or anything else – if private citizens wish to conduct their business in USD, gold or index fund shares, we should
let them). This system would be adaptive to the changes in money demand which are typically the cause of demand-side recessions in modern economies, helping Scotland to avoid some of the major macroeconomic disruptions that central banks have failed to prevent in recent years (or indeed have created themselves, unintentionally).
The reform programme outlined in this paper may be a break with recent practice, but Scotland once thrived without a central bank, and some countries continue to do so today.
Private clearinghouses once provided funds to illiquid, but solvent, banks; there is no reason that similar institutions could not do so today. Insolvent banks would be a bigger problem, but a bail-in system that extended liability to shareholders before depositors and bondholders would likely remove most of the moral hazard present in the banking system. Scottish independence is a complex issue with strong arguments on both sides.
On the question of currency, however, Scots may find that their own history shows how a financial and monetary system can flourish if banks and the state are both stripped of their monopoly powers. ‘Adaptive sterlingization’ may prove to be a model for how a country can thrive when its financial system is stable, competitive and free.
Stay cool Big Jock, too much haste will gift ye less speed.
EU contributions
Germany (80million pop) €25Billion
France (70million? pop) €20Billion
Italy pop? €20Billion
UK (62million pop) €15Billion (rebate)
Scotland can afford easily a contribution, (£1Billion? – which comes back. – CAP payments, Grants, shared Defence costs, (less), nearest, biggest market etc. Leaving the UK policies would give Scotland £10Billion+ which could be better spent.
Markets open in Asia.
Typical market craziness where over 2.5 trillion dollars has been been wiped off the markets worlwide already when that is more than the entire UK GDP.
They will correct, but emergency meetings called already to try to make sure a repeat of 2008 does not happen.
The danger (for indy) is that if a lasting global element is a perceived possibility by the EU actors tommorrow, then that may well moderate EU response to Brexit lest it fuel a potential global shock.
Population of France 65Million – €20Billion EU contibution.
@Big Jock
Sturgeon has to be seen to be exploring all possibilities that keep Scotland in the EU, including the Denmark type option in reverse, where the smaller country stays in, but the bigger one leaves. It could have big advantages for trade for Scotland on the plus side, on the minus it’s not Independence, but it would have to be full FFA, devo-max, a Council of the Isles idea. Scotland would though have quasi-Independence, and a much smaller step to go the whole hog.
It’d be a stop-gap, I don’t think it would need a Referendum, and wouldn’t stop a full Indy Ref being held in say 5 or 10 years, by which time there’s be far less of a change needed to be Indy. On the downside I guess it’d need border controls, though no reason they’d need to be any more severe than those to Switzerland – or Norway or Iceland. Currency? Pound I guess, and then progressive change to our own.
A gradualist approach speeded up by a big factor, and at that, with all the control on Scotland’s side.
There is a global crash and England hasn’t even left yet. The Tories have crash the UK/world economy. Labour are total clowns. The lunatics are running the asylum.
I have attempted to post this several times already today. Jim Sillars is no friend of our movement. This is the man who a few days before the last referendum told big oil, live on TV that Scotland would nationalise its oil industry. Time to get our ducks in a row here, and removing this walking talking disaster area from our midst.
Keeping your enemies close is all very well and good-but not after they already stabbed you in the back last time.
@Chic
The likes of Juncker and the French and German foreign ministers with their “hurry up”, should be gagged. Highly irresponsible talk from them.
@ Ian Brotherhood sorry Mr am busy playing Paper Scissors Pebble ( ah chip aff the auld rock)
Ken500
Agreed- they have crashed the world economy.
Good to see the pro yes polling up but it should be much, much higher.
There may be plenty of questions people want answers to before they take the plunge and commit to yes but my question to anyone on the fence are simple:
How can we remain shackled to a country that has committed this most unnecessary, stupid and harmful acts? What are they capable of in the future?
It is simply inexcusable.
Be sure to get yourself a blue, oval car sticker with “SCO” inside the EU stars. Some suppliers are starting to run out!
Search for Euro Sticker Scotland on Ebay or Amazon and you’ll find them.
A ‘sticker’ is worth a thousand words!
@Ronnie –
🙂
Hoots mon.
See ye soon – perhaps sooner than any of us expected.
Luigi @12.40pm
‘My only concern is that, as WM implodes, the rUK begs Nicola to take control of an emergency government. Nicola kindly decline, you belong to Scotland!’
Agreed! That scenario has flashed through my mind too! And a considered, mindful and effective job she would make of it too. Oh the whole UK would do SO well to have our Nicola and team sorting out their affairs! But Nicola belongs to Scotland and Scotland’s future.
Otherwise, wouldn’t that be like a repeat of the crisis of succession that drew our King James VI down to the English court in London and started this whole bloody mess!
Reuters headlining that 46% of Scots wouldn’t support a second Indyref. The article does acknowledge support for Indy on the up, but you have to read the article to see it. Come on Reuters, you can do better than that…
I am flicking around various news channels.
How is it possible I am seeing interviews from our first minister and interviews from people in Scotland (in English) on Arabic tv stations I haven’t seen broadcast here in the UK?
The Arabic tv station has obviously been supplied the interviews from some uk tv station. They were over dubbed with Arabic so I couldn’t hear what was being said but I am disgusted another country is being shown statements and interviews that are so important right now to Scotland and we get them censored. I know the BBC lie to us daily but now things get censored. Disgusted.
Sky News have turned up the volume on Nicola’s interview, it sounds like a echo chamber.
The start of this week
will make some greet
but we,ve shed awe oor tears before
our Independence is on its way
We just need to step through the door
Brace yourselves. Gideon about to issue a statement this morning. 12 resignations from Labour Shadow cabinet (now more of a coffee table) and the media going into to full froth Jock bashing mode a la QT. Oh and still no plan B from either HMG or the Brexiteers.
Busy night really.
It’s 7am Monday morning… let the carnage begin. 😀
Just watched Gideon.
Asked by ITV “chancellor you said if the result was leave the government would need to respond with immediate action”
Gideon “as you can see the government did respond with immediate action”
Aye they’ve all grabbed there coat and fucked off.
Let’s not be seen to be gloating as the markets tumble.Its people’s jobs and pensions.
I think it’s still possible for Scotland to remain in the EU and the UK.It would of course require massive transfer of power from Westminster to Holyrood,but anythings possible with enough political will.However,that’ll be for Ruth Davidson to argue.And would people please stop referring to her as Ruthie,like she’s some favourite niece.She is not.She is a Tory.
BBC r4, Sarah Smith says hard border, no currency for her scotland region, BoJo says there’s no rush to leave the EU so chillax, all is fine apparently as Nick toryboy Robinson fluffs Osborne, then straight after poor old Corbyn, who must go. Its another day of tory BBC led attack propaganda.
mealer at 729am,
Regarding Ruth Davidson, I wholly agree with your comments. Ruth Davidson, is a true blue Tory to the core. She wholly subscribes to the criminal cuts the Tories have made to disability support, and other vulnerable groups. She is an ardent supporter of George Osborne, and Ian Duncan Smith. A fan of neo liberal economics, regardless of costs to the poor, vulnerable and disabled across society.
Given half the chance, she would do EXACTLY the same to Scotland.
Of course our so-called ‘scottish’ ‘journalists’ NEVER point such things out. No wonder some folks have been lulled into thinking she is leader of ‘the fluffy bunny party’. She isn’t, she is a rabid right wing, pro London, anti Scotland Tory, of the very worst kind.
@heedtracker
Id be quite content with a hard border given the way some folk are behaving in England at the moment.
Mind you, we also have some arrogant, xenophobic pricks up here too. Just saw a Facebook post from a work colleague who is ex forces. Relates to being able to have a black passport once again (remember them?).
He says;
CUSTOMS OFFICIAL: “Good morning sir, what is the purpose of your visit?
HIM: “Purpose? Move aside, I’m British”.
Kind of summarised what being British is, it’s being an arrogant prick.
This is a little worrying ! http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_576faf9be4b0d2571149c8b9
Among the “massive” unintended consequences of the Brexit vote, Scotland is likely to opt for independence from Great Britain within two years
http://archive.is/4BlEI
great-britain-reckons-with-possible-future-as-little-england
http://archive.is/Kghag
https://medium.com/@alexlmmacleod/now-is-a-time-for-stateswomen
http://www.womenforindependence.org/eu_referendum_result
scotspine says:
27 June, 2016 at 7:57 am
@heedtracker
Dickheads like that are not uncommon. For the balance, BBC r4 also had on George Kerevan mp calmly explainingerising once again, a number of things to nice BBC lady, one being that if you put up a hard Scotland England border, you’ve got one in Ireland and every other country around you too.
They had on an IFS gimp too who said that not Scot’s oil has gone now so we’d be bankrupt from the get go, but there maybe incoming investment with England’s Brexit. The terrible burdens of a trillion dollar oil patch.
And here’s Flipper Darling now, we’re doomed.
Just remember folks, as we speak, the clowns of Westminster are literally buring YOUR money behind the scenes to keep the pound from falling too quickly.
That alone is cause for Scottish independence, so NO London Government we didn’t want or elect can EVER do this to Scotland ever again. Enough!
More spin from Labour this morning.
Ian Murray is disingenuous when he claims that the right wing Blairite coup against Corbyn was not co-ordinated or as a result of the Brexit campaign. Most of the Labour MPs have been very opposed to Corbyn from day one.
Ian Murray is deluded if he thinks their success in Edinburgh South / Southern is a template to follow.
In the General Election with the assistance of a Labour friendly journalist and the Daily Mail the SNP candidate was demonised over three year old tweets.
In the Scottish elections Labour targeted Tories and Lib Dems to vote for their millionaire candidate by playing up the prospect of Indyref2 .
Neither of these tactics can win back support in England and in any event I can’t see Tories or Labour or even SNP MPs voting for an early General Election (two thirds majority required) as it is not in their political interests.
http://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/news-opinion/united-kingdom-over-simply-perform
https://auldacquaintance.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/the-lunatics-have-broken-out-of-the-asylum/
Top-tories-line-up-stop-Boris
http://archive.is/CkL1s
A lot of reports of racial hatred happening now, Westminster have unleashed hell
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/26/explosion-post-brexit-racism-truly-heartbreaking-tweets/
The real question is: What are we to do to solve the problems of England’s poor class, who have been ignored and shunned by their politicians for so long despite having the worst living standards in the UK.
There is now a split between communitarian Labour and Tories who want to address this problem and globalist Labour and Tories who want to ignore it. Despite this plebiscite choosing to make itself felt at the ballot box.
Rather than rely on the drivel in the newspapers and on TV I keep an eye on the official EU site. The last piece put out on Friday is:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/news-room/20160624IPR33834/Joint-statement-by-Schulz-Tusk-Rutte-and-Juncker-on-UK-referendum-outcome
The English working class vote Tory. The majority voted for Brexit. They voted for Thatcher etc. They do not care about Scotland.
We could have Brexit Backpedal Bingo.
Already Duncan Smith has said they never intended that the EU contribution should be rerouted to the NHS, despite Leave promoting that.
Osborne says Article 50 can wait till his party gets themselves sorted out.
There has been a lot of talk that even the Tory right wasn’t serious about Brexit, it was just a tactic in their game of power politics.
Evidence, if evidence were needed of their utter incompetence and callousness, a very dangerous combination.
Hi Nana.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-blast-from-the-past/#comment-2158484
Watching a string of Engerland (Londinium) pundits on Sky News explaining how the rest of the world has been wrong footed by the mighty (dis)UK Establishment everything is tickatiboo. The World is going to be sorry you waite and see. The Tories are raiding the bank vaults for a going away present, Labour is in the middle of a suicide attempt. A the broad shoulders of “Great” Engerland.
We gotta get out of this place! A bunch of spivs and gangsters been running this con for the last 300 years and getting away with it, and the loot. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. It’s comic gold, pure gold.
Am I the only person that wants the pound to die today?
bjsalba at 0816am,
A very good link to the EU statement. One important sections makes it clear the revised agreement Cameron recently agreed with the EU, is now completely dead. There is no going back.
Quote: “As agreed, the “New Settlement for the United Kingdom within the European Union”, reached at the European Council on 18-19 February 2016, will now not take effect and ceases to exist. There will be no renegotiation.”
My bolding.
Strangely I haven’t seen this KEY POINT reported anywhere.
@galamcennalath
I reckon Cameron has pulled the ultimate petulant revenge master stroke in stepping down.
As we discovered yesterday (I say discovered, but really more ‘had confirmed’), the brexiteers had no forward plan for the UK. No brexit government in waiting, no macro economic plan, no leadership appealing for calm, nothing, nada, zip, zero. Its taken these morons three days simply to summon up the courage to say ‘its down to the standing government to have a contingency in place’.
They ‘won their control back’ only to ask ‘what are we going to do with it’?
Remember the heady days when the SG were forensically grilled on their 670pg white paper Scotland’s future? Aye, apparently the brexiteers had a web page with aboot 2k words on their cunning future plans. The SG went to the bother of forming a group of Special Economic Advisors who numbered Nobel Laureates in economic theory in their ranks and the brexiteers? Not so much.
How and ever, IMO Cameron has decidedly dropped them all right in it, including his successor. Whoever takes the poison chalice of leadership will be the dude who pulls the trigger on Article 50 and all the ramifications that entails.
His career may be over, but he pissed in the pool before leaving.
You really couldn’t make this shit up.
Robert Louis says:
“Strangely I haven’t seen this KEY POINT reported anywhere”
Yes, they aren’t willing to report that a bridge has already been burnt.
Similarly, there have three polls in a row showing a majority for Indy. That is HUGE news, yet has had little coverage given that it is a very important component in the unfolding constitutional crisis regarding Scotland.
If Boris or whoever is Tory leader triggers Article 50 a nano second later the SNP will trigger another Indyref. Come on Tory leader trigger that Article 50 please with a cherry on top.
Regarding Scotland staying in the EU, can anyone remember and enlighten me how the reunification of Germany was resolved.
East Germany was a totally different country before that so there may be useful protocols from that time that Scotland can use to ensure we stay.
One thing I am looking forward to in the NEAR future;
When looking online for various purchases or whatever and you have to input your country.
WON’T IT BE GREAT TO TYPE SCOTLAND.
@scotspine says: 27 June, 2016 at 7:57 am:
“Id be quite content with a hard border given the way some folk are behaving in England at the moment.”
Correct use of the term, “England”, there, Scospine.
” …
CUSTOMS OFFICIAL: “Good morning sir, what is the purpose of your visit?
HIM: “Purpose? Move aside, I’m British”.”
Wrong use of the term, “British”, there, Scotspine. he meant UK not Britain.
“Kind of summarised what being British is, it’s being an arrogant prick”,
Well no it doesn’t summarise what being British is – it summarises what being from the UK of GB&NI is.
Britain is the whole British Isles and the UK is not the whole of the British Isles.
It is only four out of the eight British states. These are (UK four first):-
Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England.
Then the non-UK British states are:- The Republic of Ireland and then, (the three non-UK parliament, “Crown Dependencies of), The Isle on Man, The Bailiwick of Jersey and the Bailiwick of Guernsey.
Do you really need to ask yourself why the Westminster Establishment keep calling their wee empire as, “Britain”, and everything they do as, “British”, when hardened Yessers are so inured by the Establishment Propaganda they do, just what you, did and perpetrate their UK propaganda for them?
While they are British, like the rest of us, they are not all of Britain.
Why help them by brain washing yourself?
A Denmark/Faroes solution allowing Scotland to remain the EU and part of the UK?
It is an option the SG need to exhaust, but I can’t see WM agreeing to it. Their position will remain unchanged believing the UK as an entity has voted to leave. The last thing they want is part of the UK having FFA and booming as investment floods in and companies which trade heavily with the EU relocate here. WM will never agree to that.
Brexit will happen. So IndyRef2 will also inevitably happen.
If the LibDems do switch to Indy, after every other option has been exhausted, then we should welcome them and move forward not look back. They are small fry, but the effect could be huge.
Labour in Scotland need to start thinking along the same lines.
@Nana says: 27 June, 2016 at 8:09 am:
Welcome back, Nana, Ye hae been sairly missed.
Hi Brian, thanks for info. Any advice very welcome. Right now I’m waiting to see how I get on once treatment is completed.
Having to take time out which is difficult with news changing constantly.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/scintillating-survation-survey-shows.html?spref=tw
Cameron to speak in the commons around 3pm today
So, Kaye Adams starts her program with, “After Brexit, should we just get on with it or not”.
Then she allows someone claiming to be an SNP supporter to carry on unchallenged with the statement that, “There are too many English in Scotland”.
I have heard heard her on occassion stopping people in their tracks straight away for any type of bigotry but this served her and the BBC’s purpose so allowed it to continue.
Arseholes!
Ah Democracy! It is worth taking a moment to reflect. Just when we think the “establishment” has got it all own sown up and their plots and plans are all in place – democracy, the will of the people, throws a spanner in the work. All bets are off.
The Tory Party, The Labour Party, UKIP and the SNP, Angela Merkel, the rest of the EU, The bankers, economists, the sooth sayers and all of the “experts” all now face huge issues and challenges. All of their plans are shelved whilst they try and makes sense of the new reality. None of them expected to be in the position they find themselves today – just because of one vote by the people.
‘Tis a wonderful thing, democracy.
Mealer, if Ruthie’s out of the question, how about reinstating Chucky?
Good point about East Germany, sandycraig. As far as the EU is concerned, I think it will come down to “Where there’s a will, there’s a way.”
They can bend rules if they want to: look at the Euro convergence arrangements. It just depends how much they want to punish England.
@Robert Peffers
Thank you Robert. I have been popping in now and again and being unable to comment was frustrating to say the least.
Todays commons order paper. Cameron due to speak at around 3pm
https://twitter.com/HouseofCommons/status/747340349333331968?lang=en-gb
Heard that too, Jim. Listened aghast but you could hear in Kaye’s voice that she was delighted – exactly what she wants listeners to hear. Loony SNP anti-English supporter.
Kaye Adams wants a balanced programme and brings on Dr Richard North a Daily Mail And Dail Telegraph contributor. There is no hope for BBC Scotland ever getting it right.
There was a Tory woman blaming the EU. (Preston)
There are 64Million people in the UK, France. France’s population has declined. In Europe without migration the pop is falling.
The UK Is not overrun by migrants. 10% of the population. The migrant crisis in Europe is caused by Westminster/Unionists illegally bombing the Middle East for years.
Germany has 20% of migrants and a much more successful economy. In surplus. A larger population 80Million.
In the UK there are 1.5million unemployed. 3/4Million (low) claim benefits.
There is congestion in London S/E because of Westminster economic policies. There is low unemployment in London S/E.
The rest of the UK are not overcrowded. Scotland is half empty. Low population density.
Japan pop 100million is one of the most densely population in the world. It has a relatively successful economy. Is more equal.
The UK/US are the most unequal with division between rich and poor.
Osbourne is a total failure as Chancellor. Especially for Scotland. High Oil tax, when the price had fallen, has cost Scotland £4Billion+ a year for five years (£20Billion) and lost thousands of jobs.
Listening to Kay with an E …..just to find out the BBC story.
She wants everyone to agree with Dr Richard North…..looked him up in Wikipedi……he was a founder of REFERENDUM party
None of them expected to be in the position they find themselves today – just because of one vote by the English people.
Fixed it for you sensible. You crushed the vile seps of your scotland region 2014 and now You’re out of Europe 2016. And yet nutter toryboys like BoJo dont want to go now, shock.
27 EU nations are probably not happy today sensible and its the opposite of the old adage, they’d probably rather have England’s toryboys pissing into the EU tent than actually in it.
Osbourne looked like a dead man with with a stick up his back tied to a horse. No reigns, no direction. Meanwhile the vultures circle.
Loved those old cowboy movies she the wee girl with the big heart rode in all guns blazing to save the day!
Go get ’em Nicola!
So, if we imagine that we have all got ourselves into a mind set where we all believe that the UK will leave the EU in two years time, what does Scottish Independence look like then?
Using the arguments that we saw in the EU referendum,then I imagine a big one will be “Do the people of Scotland want Independence from their biggest trading partner (i.e the rest of the UK, take 64% of all Scottish exports I read somewhere) with a border and passports, tariffs, etc, between us, whilst less than 16% goes to EU? ….. and Neither side having the right to free movement to work?
Stop listening to Kaye Adams feeding the fire. Without an audience she is finished. Brewer and Smith programmes are going. No audience. BBC Scotland are talking themselves out of a job.
Labour opposition. Most of them should just join the Tories. Hilary Benn who gave a speech advocating bombing Syria, causing more migration. Applauded by the Tories. They are a disgrace,
Johnston was playing cricket. Watson was at Glastonbury. They are a disgrace.
Lol – I’ve just been on call kaye
The end is nigh.
I thought the UK would finally end in farce, but I really did not expect the four horses of the Ukopalypse to be ridden by clowns (Farage, Johnson, Gove, DS).
They got their control back and they haven’t a clue what to do.
Happy Independence Day. 🙁
sensibledave says:
27 June, 2016 at 9:42 am
So, if England imagines that England have all got ourselves into a mind set where the English all believe that England will leave the EU in two years time, what does Scottish Independence look like then?
Fixed that for you again sensible. Youre all over the Brexiteer shop today sensible.
England voted Out, Scotland voted Remain. Do keep up sensible.
It’s incredible that the blue and red tories are accusing NS of opportunism and not helping to pull the UK together, “at this difficult time”, whilst their respective parties disintegrate in a heady mixture of revenge and selfish ambition. NS is the only senior politician actually doing her job and putting the country first at the moment.
The BBC are driving the One Nation narrative on Call Kaye this morning: “Let’s stay calm pull together.”
“Don’t panic, Don’t panic!”.:)
“We’ve got one on the line now Kaye says too many English in Scotland”
“Shall I put him on Kaye”?
FGS…Pete what were you thinking?
I switched off after that and ate my porridge 🙁
@David says:
Heard that too, Jim. Listened aghast but you could hear in Kaye’s voice that she was delighted – exactly what she wants listeners to hear. Loony SNP anti-English supporter.
_____
Footsoldier says:
Kaye Adams wants a balanced programme and brings on Dr Richard North a Daily Mail And Dail Telegraph contributor. There is no hope for BBC Scotland ever getting it right.
_______________________
I did not think that they could sink any lower but they have reached the bottom of the barrel and kept digging.
The reason she allowed this imbecile to carry on was because he stated he was SNP and she and the BBC want to stir up a backlash against the SNP due to his commnents.
On the main point, there are a few coming on and basically saying, “The UK as a whole voted Brexit so Scotland,suck it up”, well no, the UK as a whole consists of 4 countries and Scotland as a country told you overwhelmingly to shove your Brexit up your arse.
They should alwayts be told, Scotland is not a region of the UK!
Remember Cameron’s poll on ‘what makes people happy’.
He was driving around in an Austin Martin. £10million aircraft. Delusions of grandeur.
Within a year he has crashed the markets. They are trying to rival Thatcher over 3 million unemployed and interest rates at 15%.
I see the great “Mother of Parliaments” has an ordinary day planned
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/4166e746-b9af-41b2-8a71-983be4680fb4
They hadn’t even considered that a result either way for the EU Ref might warrant a statement by anyone that might have a say in the affair.
Ken500 says:
Stop listening to Kaye Adams feeding the fire. Without an audience she is finished. Brewer and Smith programmes are going.
___________
Know your enemy, learn about them and their methods!
Sensible Dave @ 9.42
Naw that’s a question for business and while an important part of the community is well placed to take care of itself.
The Big one actually is..Do the population want to have its main legislative body the organisation that Westminster is shaping up to be ?
Raised an eyebrow slightly listening to Ian Murray this morning bigging up Sturgeon and urging the (not) Scottish labour party to get right behind her in supporting Scotland’s interests.
Even Salmond mentioned it later too!
There’s a motive behind it I’m sure 🙂
“Now ‘s the time and Now’s the hour”.
Fate has dealt Nicola a very powerful hand. The UK government has now got to show the world a degree of unity never seen before on these islands. The world of commerce is watching . Those who control business ,investment and help fuel our economy are paying close attention. They will not countenance a country where there is discord uncertainty and political chaos.
This poses a major problem for Westminster with what is happening right now with regard to Labour self evisceration and the Tories desperately coming to terms with something they never believed would happen. Those of us who have lived through recession and paid 30 odd percent basic rate tax ,know it is a slow onset. It does not happen overnight,but it comes inevitably like a thief in the night. It can take months,but it will come.
Nicola is holding all the Aces. She could if she wished, plunge this island into even greater confusion,but if she uses her head, as I know she will ,she holds enormous bargaining power.
I admire the fortitude of all those who listen to Kay with an E but I only ever hear bits when Mrs TC insists on hearing “what the enemy are up to”. I usually have to go into another room.
It pumps out Britnat propaganda which would have made Goebbels blush: planted callers and right-wing fruit loop “experts” producing a noxious mix which surely only convinces hard-line UKOKians.
I feel so much better with out it and MSM generally.
@robertnight
”
Be sure to get yourself a blue, oval car sticker with “SCO” inside the EU stars. Some suppliers are starting to run out!
Search for Euro Sticker Scotland on Ebay or Amazon and you’ll find them.
A ‘sticker’ is worth a thousand words!
”
I expect there will be a run on “Don’t Blame Me I Voted YES” T-shirts as well.
I’m appointing ‘Heedy’ as the Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland on Wings: Your portfolio should you choose to take this great office of Wingsstate on, is to deal with all communications from any ToryUKOKTwats and deal with them in any manner you see fit.
All other Wingers are advised to avoid all contact with said type’s as ‘Heedy’ is oan it!
The so-called united kingdom is now undeniably a laughing stock. Time for Scotland to disengage itself from this farce. The bbc will now be in overdrive in hoping it can help keep the so-called united kingdom together. As ever about the britnat bbc: let britnats pay for britnat propaganda. Don’t pay the bbc tax.