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We, a few of the people

Posted on August 08, 2014 by

In a blur of media excitement this week about such stellar household names as Haydn Gwynne, Maggi Hambling, John Illsley, William Dalrymple, James Timpson, Amanda Foreman, Andy Puddicombe, David Rowntree, Bill Morris, David Goodhart, William Boyd, Tracy Brabin, Paul Cartledge, Glen Baxter and Andy Barrow* all telling Scots to vote No because they love us, an even more thrilling endorsement for the Union was largely overlooked – that of Dana Rohrabacher.


What do you mean, who?

The Telegraph, however, was firmly on top of the job, with a piece yesterday titled “US Congress tables resolution opposing Scottish Independence”. A couple of fairly dramatic introductory paragraphs noted that:

“The US Congress has weighed into the debate over Scottish independence, introducing a resolution arguing that a ‘united, secure, and prosperous United Kingdom’ is essential for US national security priorities in Europe.

It was more than halfway down the piece before the paper revealed the slightly-less impressive truth: just 27 members of Congress had actually put their names to the document, from a total of 435 – slightly over 6%. We hadn’t heard of any of them, although there was a bit of a surprise twist at the end when “Dana Rohrabacher” turned out to be a man. (That actually is him in the hat above.)

For perspective, 6% is roughly the percentage of the vote that the Liberal Democrats got in the 2011 Scottish Parliament election. So announcing that the “US Congress” was opposed to Scottish independence on the strength of the resolution is a bit like saying that Tavish Scott is the international voice of Scotland.

We’re not sure why the Telegraph (the only other publications to pick the story up as far as we saw were the Huffington Post – which at least has the excuse of being based in the US – and of course the dear old BBC) felt the need to go to such straw-clutching lengths to find an anti-independence story. After all, when you’ve already got Andy Puddicombe on your team, how much more stardust do you need?


*If you have the faintest idea who any of these people are, please let us know.

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    1. 08 08 14 19:52

      We, a few of the people | Scottish Independence News

    364 to “We, a few of the people”

    1. Ali says:

      William Boyd is a pretty good novelist. I recommend the New Confessions.

    2. R-type Grunt says:

      I’ve never heard of any of these arseholes. Moving on…

    3. goldenayr says:

      He MUST be the grandson of the guy who played the cowardly lion in The Wizard of Oz,the resemblance is uncanny.

      Wonder when he’ll get courage?

    4. An Duine Gruamach says:

      William Dalrymple is a historian. Not a scooby about the others.

    5. Colin Dunn says:

      Haydn Gwynne was in Drop the Dead Donkey. William Dalrymple? Didn’t he write The Last Moghul? Seems to be one of the Scottish Raj and has done well out of it, so little surprise there.

    6. Votadini Jeannie says:

      Tracy Brabin was in Corrie many years ago, so that’s me changed to a No vote.

      Hayden Gwynne was in Drop The Dead Donkey so will know a wee bit about manipulating the news.

      No idea who the rest are.

    7. GraemeR says:

      It was in todays Courier as well. Kevin Bridges “Did ye, aye?” response would pretty much sum up my reaction.

    8. JimnArlene says:

      When is America, going to give up it’s independence and be subject to Westminster rule? 6% of it’s representatives seem to think that’ll be yanky doodle dandy. The naysayers, really are scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

    9. TheGreatBaldo says:

      After all, when you’ve already got Andy Puddicombe on your team, how much more stardust do you need?

      As I discovered yesterday after asking on various as to who he was…

      He’s an ex Buddihist Monk with Clown Skills 😀

      We’ve got Tariq Ali & Russell Brand.

      I’m just saying…..

    10. Dinnatouch says:

      Haydn Gwynne was in Drop The Dead Donkey.

    11. John Walsh says:

      I just wonder has BT managed to get M15 to “vet” the 200 Use2B’s.
      Because we wouldnt want any of them to turn out to have erm!
      Dodgy past that could come to light!
      That would be just embarrassing!

    12. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      It seems to me that the medium has become the message.

      BBC is not fit for purpose.

      The others we can buy or not.

    13. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      Which end?

    14. galamcennalath says:

      What about the Friends of Scotland Caucus in the US?

      Can they be prompted to do a House Resolution saying the opposite? Or, are they just some type of US ProudScotsBut, focusing on clans and tartan rather than the national interests of Scotland?

    15. Johannah Buchan says:

      I notice they say it’s essential for US priorities. What about Scottish priorities? Or has it not crossed their tiny minds that it’s got eff all to do with them.

    16. Lesley-Anne says:

      I will start following orders, sorry *ahem* wishes, from Washington AFTER Washington agrees that American independence was a BAD idea and that they want to return to governance from Westminster. Until such times as this happens these *cough* politicians can go take an extremely long walk off of an extremely short plank into shark infested waters! 😛

      P.S. Who the hell are all these people in your list Stu. For my crimes I have not heard of any of them. Mind you the fact they apparently are all backing the latest love bomb from London I’m not so sure I actually want to know either. 😀

    17. goldenayr says:

      Everybody keeps saying “Haydn Gwynne” was on DTDD.

      Was he? He must’ve been a really unmemorable character then as I still don’t have a clue who he is.

    18. TYRAN says:

      Did one of them play the little boy with the thick glasses in the 1970s TV comedy George & Mildred?

    19. Tattie-bogle says:

      Puddicombe is that not the piece of skin between your genitals and your rusty sheriffs badge

    20. goldenayr says:


      The Milky Bar Kid was in George and Mildred?

      Wow! That must’ve been a low point in his career.

    21. heedtracker says:

      Here’s the man. Its not like they don’t have enough on their plate, domestic and foreign but lets take a dump on Scottish democracy anyway. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, all of which will be jeopardised by a new Scottish PR parliament in Edinburgh. Since when Scotland did suddenly become so crucial to the free world?

    22. Harry McAye says:

      I know two of them and that’s because I’m a bit of a saddo when it comes to actors. Haydn Gwynne was in the first couple of series of Drop the Dead Donkey and Tracy Brabin was in Corrie and some long running adverts. The others, nope, never heard of them.

      Going back to the debate, wouldn’t it have been great to hear Alex ask Darling what he thought of the Financial Times comments in February about an indy Scotland being richer than the rest of the uk. Rather than waste time and give him the opportunity to stand there and laugh at him, that would have put him on the back foot straight away and also would have given the watching million some valuable information that a large percentage would have been hearing for the first time. At least that nugget is prominent in the Your Choice booklets.

    23. Votadini Jeannie says:

      Hayden Gwynne is a woman. She played the role of Alex (also a woman). Think she was only in the first series or two.

    24. goldenayr says:


      If your lucky it’s your partners hand.

    25. Harry McAye says:

      goldenayr – Haydn Gwynne is female. She played Alex.

    26. jon esquierdo says:

      Think about £100billion to renew trident 60% of which goes to the U.S arms industry for the propulsion and guidance system and you have the answer to how the Americans are interested in backing better together

    27. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Haydn Gwynne was in Drop The Dead Donkey.”

      I think I preferred him/her when I had no idea who he/she was.

    28. goldenayr says:

      Votadini Jeannie

      So “she” wasn’t good enough for a third series?

    29. heedtracker says:

      Even oor Brad lies like Jim Murphy on tour

      “Now a Congressional Resolution, H.Res.713, has been introduced, with wide-ranging Democratic and Republican support, expressing the same sentiment”

      6% ain’t wide-ranging

    30. Rosa Alba Macdonald says:

      Hadyn Gwynne is an actress. Rowntree may be of the Rowntree Foundation or not.

    31. donald anderson says:

      When asked about the US breaking away the Senator picked a quote from Jefferson saying that they were rule by a tyrant and a despot and Cameron was not.

      He could have studied how Scotland stood at that time, suffering from the Clearances and the aftermath of Culloden. To wear their native dress or play the native music they had to join the newly formed Highland regiments for forgiveness and fight against the Yankee colonists. Many Highland families in the US were threatened with their families back home being burnt out if they did not side with the Loyalists. Many left for the Canadas. Half of Washington’s cabinet were Scots, or of Scottish extraction.

      In all of this economic debate of the 300 year old so called “Union” that worked well (for whom?)the cultural and historic side, where oppression was the norm, is forgotten or ignored.

    32. Neil says:

      David (or Dave) Rowntree is the drummer from Blur.

      He is also a Labour party member and has stood as a Labour parliamentary candidate, unsuccessfully, on four occasions.

    33. Just Interested says:

      As an American living in Scotland, what little I know about Rohrabacher is that he is a Republican (Yank Tory) elected in Orange County, California. Reagan country. Reagan loved Maggie.

    34. Mary Bruce says:

      I once went to a talk by the historian and unionist, William Dalrymple

      His speciality is India. He is Scottish but lives in India half the time.

      I remember him telling us about how, when the British arrived there, India was the richest country in the world but when we left it was the poorest.

      Just sayin’.

    35. heedtracker says:

      If 94% of Congress did not back Resolution 713, it maybe says a lot about the Special relationship with teamGB. Ive never met an American who’s not delighted at just the thought of Scotland finally becoming a country again.

    36. Red Squirrel says:

      So these folk want Scotland to vote no and reject self determination – and openly tell us they do this because it’s in their best interests?

      Pretty well sums up the no thanks campaign – personal interests above Scotland’s interests, me first politics regardless of the cost to the rest of us. No more.

    37. Jamie Arriere says:

      Maggi Hambling – didn’t she star in wait,that was Hamble
      John Illsley – bass player in Dire Straits (wonder what Mark Knopfler thinks)
      James Timpson – I’ve heard of a Timpson’s Injection, so maybe he’s a drug dealer?
      Amanda Foreman – grill manufacturer heiress?
      David Rowntree – inventor of the pastille?
      Bill Morris – dancer?
      Paul Cartledge – had an operation named after him?
      Glen Baxter – makes decidedly poor whisky?
      Andy Barrow – useful tool for carting your compost around in?

      🙂 🙂 😉

    38. You and My Comb says:

      Glen Baxter is he a cartoonist? Slightly offbeat at times humourous.

    39. JPJ2 says:

      I know that (with very good reason) very few people watch the unionist Sarah Smith’s “Scotland 2014” programme.

      However,I am pretty sure that she said last night that the motion had been PASSED which seems to me to be something very far in excess of what actually happened!

    40. Adrian B says:

      Heard about this on twitter. So I went to check it out. Cliff Richard does not pay any TAX in UK as he is now a citizen of Barbados.

    41. Harry Shanks says:

      Surely Hadyn Gwynne MUST be related to Fred Gwynne who (if I’m not mistaken) played Herman Munster ?

    42. Harry McAye says:

      To be fair Stu, when I started my reply, no one had yet mention that Haydn Gwynne was in Drop the Dead Donkey. But she was in Drop the Dead Donkey. Two series of Drop the Dead Donkey in fact. I loved Drop the Dead Donkey, so I did.

    43. Inbhir Anainn says:

      Sincere apologies for going OT so early into the thread but a wee heads up look out for next week dropping through your letter boxes from The Electoral Commission the following:

      The 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum Voting Guide

      Plus we are due another leafleting from that nasty Better Together mob VOTE NO TO INDEPENDENCE

      I kid you not.

    44. Adam says:

      If these nobodies are in the list of 200 “celebrities”, just imagine how many people must have been on the distribution list but had the integrity (or maybe couldn’t be arsed) to not sign the letter. These imperialists have self-selected themselves.

    45. North chiel says:

      Perhaps if a YES vote we could ask them for
      The Statue of Liberty?

    46. Seasick Dave says:

      Who is Tavish Scott?

    47. Erchie says:

      Hadtn Gwynne was in the radio 4 series Earthsearch.

      There the ruthless authority maintained power over the inhabitants by keeping them juvenilised and denying them the ability to take decisions themselves

    48. JGedd says:

      Maggi Hambling, @ James Arriere (6.02pm) is an artist who knows as much about Scotland’s referendum and our reasons for voting Yes as the rest of them do. These people are either vain enough or presumptuous enough or ignorant enough ( or just so pleased that someone thought that they were worth asking ) that they were persuaded that we, the dim punters of Scotland, would be wowed by their attention.

      Some of those on that list should be ashamed to be seen in the same company as some of the others. But on second thoughts, since they signed, then they probably deserve to be seen in that company

    49. heedtracker says:

      That BBC vote NO headline has got to be the most No Thanks BetterTogether biased headline in the last half hour at least, maybe since 5pm even. So much for their 3 month run up neutrality and impartialness. Complete opposite now but they know they are on the way back south and no honour amongst British hacks.

    50. Croompenstein says:

      @JPJ2 – Here it is from 15:50 I swear you can hear Sarah’s knickers squelching..

    51. panda paws says:

      I knew who Tracy and Hayden were but since others got there first, I randomly selected a name and googled.

      David Goodhart is a journalist and director of the think tank “Demos”

      I also knew who Conn Igguldon was!

    52. YESGUY says:

      wee bit off topic or maybe not.

      Check out this wee blog. I thought it was a brilliant piece and rad through more… i like this guy.

      If more where like him what a difference it would make

      he’s commentated on here before and not long started his blog.

    53. mr thms says:

      Is STV an official backer for Better Together?

    54. panda paws says:

      I was sad to hear Alexander Armstrong signed it. Fortunately Richard Osman didn’t. Still the whole thing was pointless.

      I’ll get my coat!

    55. Murray McCallum says:

      I’m trying to imagine someone from New York State being happy with:

      1. 90% of their taxes being handed up to Washington to be centrally allocated.

      2. Getting Republican representation and policies regardless of how they voted.

    56. goldenayr says:


      You owe me my dinner!

      I’ve just thrown it up at the thought of Smith and….

    57. goldenayr says:


      Couldn’t finish,had to boak again.

      I need to lie down.

    58. Simon Rodger says:

      There’s a Paul Cartledge who is an academic in Classics

    59. Mrs Grimble says:

      OK, haven’t read through all the comments, but here’s who those terribly famous slebs are: (NKSC=No Known Scottish Connection)

      Hadyn Gwynn – actor, appeared in Peak Practice & Drop the Dead Donkey, bit parts in numerous series & sitcoms. NKSC
      Maggi Hamblin – artist, portraitist & sculptor. NKSC
      John Illsley – bass guitarist, Dire Straits. NKSC
      William Dalrymple – historian & writer; born and bought up in Scotland (Fife). Now resident in India.
      James Timpson – CEO of Timpson chain of shoe-repair and key cutting shops. NKSC
      Amanda Foreman – historian & biographer, has dual US/UK citizenship, resident in London & New York. NKSC
      David Rowntree – drummer in Blur, now works as DJ, radio presenter, political activist, cartoon animator & solicitor. NKSC
      David Goodhart – journalist & director of the think tank Demos, argued for restricting immigration. NKSC
      William Boyd – novelist, born in Africa, educated at Gordonstoun and Glasgow University.
      Tracy Brabin – actor & screenwriter. NKSC
      Paul Cartledge – academic & historian (specialising in ancient Greek), currently holds positions in Princeton and New York Uni. NKSC
      Glen Baxter – cartoonist. NKSC
      Andy Barrow – Paralympian, wheelchair rugby champion. NKSC
      Bill Morris –  which one??? There are lots of them.

    60. Papadox says:

      Ed the talking mule. Could somebody get a straw hat and cut two ear pieces out of it and stick it on Ed Millibands head and get him to smile.

      As a kid I used to see Ed the talking mule at the ABC minors and I’m sure Milliband played the part.
      Anybody remember. Or is it just my old mind playing tricks. A they were the days. Flash Gordon was another, think he probably got the jail.

    61. Dan Huil says:

      Reporting “Scotland” starts off with classic Project Fear propaganda. You have to laugh.

      BTW. I had a crush on the scary sulky lady in Drop the Dead Donkey, actress Susannah Doyle. Hope she’s not on the list. Even if she is I’ll still vote Yes.

    62. Quentin Quale says:

      Pedant alert – Mr Ed was a talking horse not a mule. Although you can have what is termed a lightweight mule, which might fit Labour Ed.

    63. PeeGee says:

      Haydn Gwynn is an actress. She’s got lady bits, XX chromosomes and everything. Actors have dangly bits and XY chromosomes.

      Actor = male.

      Actress = female.

      Just because the guardian campaigns to change the meaning of every word which denotes a person’s sex doesn’t mean the rest of us should put up with their nonsense.

    64. BigRik says:

      It reminds me of the film version of Porridge , when they had “celebrities” coming off the bus , and no-one had a clue who they were. But the term “celebrity” has been stretched to the limit recently anyway. The BBC has a new series called Tumble… i recognised NO-ONE 🙂

    65. David Goodhart,wrote a pamphlet called “The British dream” which the bbc critic said “Is this man the left’s Enoch Powell?”
      He is/was a member of Demos ,the think tank that guided Tony Blairs New Labour.
      Demos set up the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media (CASM) to research trends in social media, and the role online conversations can play in political engagement and social policy research.
      Unless it is another David Goodhart and if so I apologise.

    66. PeeGee says:

      On the topic of demented political balloons. Wonderful picture of prominent NO campaigner and all round racist G Galloway in the self-same grainyard. Seems he’s facing gaol for his anti-semitic appeals to his Bradford electorate.
      What a fine example of the best the no to Scotland side have to offer.
      Also the worst attempt at a front comb-over ever. Bloated, orange, bald, celtic supporting republican, british nationalist and most famous for rimming Saddam while being the cat.

    67. seanair says:

      William Dalrymple may be an author and a historian but he he is one of the Hamilton-Dalrymple dynasty, owning large parts of East Lothian. Don’t know his position in the pecking order but he could be inheriting all the goodies and living in Scotland in future.The family has been part of the Scottish legal establishment for many years.
      India can get its freedom from England (sic), but not Scotland!

    68. The Scotswoman says:

      Gawd I must be behind the times as I Haven’t heard of any of these folk . OK just seen the post outlining who they are. Am I supposed to be impressed or bowled over or something? If any one of them could give me ONE valid reason to stay in this abusive relationship I might listen.

    69. BigRik says:

      In the words of Mr Mackay, i have no favourites… i hold them all in equal contempt.

    70. CameronB Brodie says:

      6% ain’t wide-ranging

      It can be, if spread thinly enough, and in this case to near translucent. 🙂

    71. handclapping says:

      Its getting up my nose Stu putting up these celebrity names. i was sure I knew one of them, that Tracy Brabin was a joke writer for the Navy Lark and I Love Lucy and it turns out hes a she and Eddie Braben died last year 🙁

    72. Dcanmore says:

      The Huffington Post has no excuses, their UK office is just a five minute walk from where I work in central London WC1. The Huff’s editorial line has been against Scottish independence, pretty much in line with The Guardian, they like to think they represent left of centre politics, but not really.

      In the London Evening Times tonight the paper tried to side-swipe Peter Capaldi about the referendum during the new series showing of Dr Who at the BFI. Peter wasn’t having any of it and brushed them away, the newspaper then had to print it as a cheeky but jolly encounter. The guy’s no daft!

      Anyway I’m sure Tom Conti is available for back up quotes as required.

    73. Kev says:

      Just saw STV news, Milliboid forced into admitting to Ponsonby that Scotland not keeping sterling would cost English businesses hundreds of millions, but that he would happily rule out a CU in the Labour manifesto, you really couldne make this stuff up.

    74. Harry McAye says:

      PeeGee, I don’t know when it happened but you regularly hear actresses being called actors these days.

      Ponsonby, who I thought played a blinder in the debate (after all, it was he who got Darling to flounder on the two new powers) was tremendous interviewing Milibland. Only 100s of millions, nothing to see hear. Ha Ha, another great day after more defections to Yes.

    75. BigRik says:

      Millipede can promise anything he wants , he knows he has as much chance as Clegg of being the next PM. It will be Cameron , then BoJo… be afraid.. be very afraid.

    76. Quentin Quale says:

      Kev – thank goodness for that as I thought I’d misheard it. If that is the contempt in which he holds English voters then I shudder to think how he views us Scots.

    77. HeehawBaws says:

      Actually, what the US are saying is that they are totally in favour of a Currency Union.

    78. horacesaysyes says:

      As well as being the drummer in Blur, Dave Rowntree is also a failed Labour Parliamentary candidate, standing in the Cities of London and Westminster constituency in the 2010 General Election.

    79. handclapping says:

      Its a Labour thing; they know best whatever it costs the rest of us. Like Jimmy Hood who’d vote No even if Yes was good for Scotland 🙁

    80. G H Graham says:

      I’ve actually been inside Capitol Hill when I testified in front of a panel of US Senators in 2008.

      And having spent nearly 10 years in the USA became somewhat aware of who the movers and shakers are inside the political circus that is Washington.

      Regretfully, none of the members of the house mentioned in this motion are much more than local lightweights who are barely known outside their own counties, never mind their own States.

      It’s the equivalent of the Dunkeld Womens Institute forwarding a nation wide motion to publish a scud book for the over 70’s in an attempt to raise some money for a naked scone baking competition.

      Even if you had heard of it, it’s hardly something you would seek to find out more about is it?

    81. BuckieBraes says:

      Looking at the graphic for this ‘Let’s Stay Together’ thing, something odd strikes me. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all still there; it’s England that has scarpered.

    82. Quentin Quale says:

      Speak fur yersel!

    83. BigRik says:

      The CU should only be short term anyway , when the rUK leaves europe , it’s value will drop like a stone anyhoo.. The people will start panicking when the price of food rockets due to no EU subsidies , so they will have to go on holiday to Spain and bring back a load of duty-free… oh.. wait…

    84. JET JOCKEY says:

      Anybody got the same feeling as me, Never ever to buy a newspaper again.

    85. IcySpark says:


      Excellent video regarding media bias

      THE BIGGER THE LIE – Media Bias in the Scottish Independence Referendum. Prof John Robertson.

    86. Quentin Quale says:

      Sad news about Shell shedding 250 jobs but a spokeswoman says it is being done “to better serve the needs of its off-shore facilitiesand to build a stronger LONG TERM business in the North Sea”.
      Well, they seem to be staying for the Big Party.

    87. DougtheDug says:

      Breaking down the signers of the “of course we love you” letter into rough categories gives this:

      (TV takes in presenters, comedy shows, game shows and so on.)

      Since I’ve no idea who some of the names were I’ve had to do a best guess on Google.

      TV 42
      Actor 30
      Sports 29
      Writer 19
      Journalist 13
      Musician 13
      Academic 11
      Artist 8
      Business 5
      Forces 4
      Designer 3
      Film Director 2
      HOC 2
      Politician 2
      Producer 2
      Radio 2
      Art critic 1
      Art dealer 1
      campaigner 1
      Cartoonist 1
      Comedian 1
      Conductor 1
      Explorer 1
      Guru 1
      Historian 1
      Model 1
      Philosopher 1
      Photographer 1
      Promoter 1
      Sculptor 1

    88. HandandShrimp says:

      I was surprised by the some of the names on that list…a number of whom I thought were not keen on Scotland and I was surprised by how many I didn’t know. I didn’t know any of the US peeps at all.

    89. heedtracker says:

      Anyone else watching Channel 4 news on Albania’s EU membership? The Albanian village on show made $4 billion a year growing hash but its all good now and Albania are in the EU soon.

      Scotland on the other hand are out of the EU, if you’re a bettertogether No Thanks peddler.

    90. john king says:

      Papadox says
      “As a kid I used to see Ed the talking mule at the ABC minors and I’m sure Milliband played the part.
      Anybody remember. Or is it just my old mind playing tricks. A they were the days”

      Dont you mean Mr Ed?

    91. Papadox says:

      The SLAB political circus.

      Master of ceremonies: A Darling,

      Starring, Ed the talking horse and the three bare back riders JOLA, JABA & MAGS in leotards and slippers.

      Payed for by the Tollies.

    92. Jimbo says:

      Hmm, how did I ever get through life without knowing who all these people are?

    93. Robert Peffers says:

      @goldenayr says: 8 August, 2014 at 5:43 pm:

      “Everybody keeps saying “Haydn Gwynne” was on DTDD.”

      Hey! You!
      No everybody’s sayin, “wha’s “Haydn Gwynne”.. Ah’m saying, “Whit the hang’s DDTD?”

      I’m entitled to a free license but decided to not bother to renew it anyway as they were mostly broadcasting sheer mind numbing claptrap. Hundreds of channels, (including shopping), and I couldn’t find anything to watch. Hell! with my own set of cameras & camcorders I make more interesting programmes. I made a documentary for a local Action Group a few weeks ago. They didn’t realise that one guy, who knew what he was doing, could produce such quality stuff. They probably have it on YouTube and/or facebook by now. They did ask permission to do so and were told it was theirs to do what the liked with it. I’ve worked for free for many years.

    94. I find it hard to believe that the no campaign would think that Americans would persuade us in any thing just look at their record on human rights ?ask the red Indians . That would be as daft as putting an Englishman in charge of the no campaign I mean inferring that there are no scots intelligent enough to do it and the penny still has not dropped on the no side vote yes

    95. HandandShrimp says:

      I note that Darling spent about 10 minutes banging on about plan B and since then we have had nothing but wall to wall currency from every conceivable orifice. I will give Project Fear its due it really does do the mass FUD as almost second nature.

      To cap it all we have had Miliband up doing “I am masterful you Scots will listen and obey” crap. It is like being savaged by a beanie baby.

    96. Papadox says:

      @john king 7:47

      Thank you john upon reflection MR ED, getting confused, a the passage of time, who was Frances was he a talking horse? Anyway it got my old mind going for a minute or two.

    97. heedtracker says:

      @ cynicalHighlander, thanks for the link. Tommy Sheridan, what a star!

    98. Capella says:

      “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
      That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
      In Congress July 4th 1776

    99. Lesley-Anne says:

      Great to see Tommy Sheridan doing what he does best, speaking from the heart with loads of PASSION! 😛

    100. Robert Peffers says:

      @Seasick Dave says: 8 August, 2014 at 6:15 pm:

      “Who is Tavish Scott?”

      Oooh! I’ve heard of him – wasn’t he the dead donkey?

    101. heedtracker says:

      Phoney old Graun and not future PM Milliband

      “If alarm bells were ringing after Tuesday night [about Salmond’s currency proposals] when there were no answers, they should be ringing much, much louder if they’re now threatening to renege on their debts,” Miliband said.

      I don’t remember Scotland running up any debts and Holyrood cant borrow because our Westminster masters wont let them. Wonder if Miliband is aware of any of these real world things

    102. hadrianswall says:

      Sorry OT. I see another councillor (ex SLAB) has come over to YES joining numerous ex SLAB. There must be current SLAB MP’s and MEP’s who will vote YES. I hope they realise the monumental importance to their country that they declare their position before the vote. The sooner the better.

    103. msean says:

      Don’t know any of these people mentioned above. None of them.

    104. Once again, I would like all of you to have a look at and follow us on facebook and twitter (@ScotlandAbroad).

      “Solidarity with Scotland” is a truly international campaign of support for Scottish independence from all over the world.

      We are not famous, we are ordinary people, but we have a legitimate right to support our friends and relatives in Scotland and to show our total support for Yes.

    105. Muscleguy says:

      I agree, as soon as them uppity American colonists admit their manifest error of destiny (density?) and resubmit to Westminster rule, or at least replace their President with a Governor General like loyal Canada I might listen to them as they interfere in the affairs of a foreign country in order to oppose their right to self determination. A right I seem to remember their rebel forefathers invoking in their independence referendum with fisticuffs.

    106. Cutommy says:

      I am old enough to remember William Boyd playing as Hopalong Cassidy in 1950’s cowboy films.

    107. I tried to contact the US Congress but there is no direct route to send an Email. The only way to reach them is to telephone a particular Congressman which I tried but the number was always engaged.

    108. Capella says:

      Has Hopalong signed? And Topper the horse? How can we let Hoppy down!

    109. john king says:

      Cutommy says
      “I am old enough to remember William Boyd playing as Hopalong Cassidy in 1950?s cowboy films.”

      Well just “hopalong”this way stranger 🙂

    110. Robert Peffers says:

      @Mrs Grimble says:8 August, 2014 at 6:44 pm:

      “OK, haven’t read through all the comments, but here’s who those terribly famous slebs are:”

      Well that’s another wee while of my life just wasted for nothing and I’ll never get it back again.

    111. Capella says:

      Hi Pilar, that’s an impressive list of photos and messages of support. It’s great to get this positive feedback to counter all the negativity in the MSM

    112. Greannach says:

      In response to the asterisk and question, I recognise about half the names, but of those, I’ve only heard them and amn’t sure who or what they are. In fact the names I recognise may be London celebrities, but on the other hand they may be like the guy who drives the milkfloat around Buckie, the woman who sells eggs in Hawick or the wee boy who plays in the junior league in Cowdenbeath. I believe Amanda Foreman checks the tickets at the multiplex in Clydebank, but I might be wrong. The only Maggi Hambling I know used to gut mackerel in Troon in the 1960s.

    113. JWil says:

      There must be a publishing house somewhere getting ready to print the first edition of, ‘The who’s who of Ayes and Naws’. It’s too good a chance to miss. Not much time left though. Welcome aboard abstainers.

    114. Rookiescot says:

      As a life long Labour supporter I am disgusted at Milibands comments regarding currency union.

      It is obvious to me now that Labour do not care about the people of Scotland. It only cares about its prospects in Westminster.

      Well bollocks to that.

      I kept looking for a “softer” approach from the Labour party regarding independence. Turns out they are even more anti independence than the fucking Conservatives.

      How mad is that?

      I will never vote Labour again. I honestly dont think I will be the only one thinking like this either.

      I want a yes vote more tonight than I ever have before.

    115. Brian Powell says:

      What a disingenuous crock of shit the BBC article is on this, putting the total number of members of Congress into a paragraph where they say both Democrats and Republicans support the motion.

    116. Lesley-Anne says:

      Tommy now on Q&A’s.

    117. john king says:

      Jesus Greannach
      you get aroon dont yea?

    118. Jim says:

      Can we now get a list of all those in the rUK that say, please leave us Scotland, we are tired of subsidising you?
      I am sure they could get more than 200 signatories.

    119. Chitterinlicht says:

      I am still waiting to hear what Bagpus and the Soup Dragon think.

    120. Joe Swan says:


      Only one comedian.

      That was a surprise, I had the count much more than that.

    121. Croompenstein says:

      @Lesley-Anne – Tommy is on fire tonight 🙂

      @goldenayr – sorry bout your dinner 🙂

    122. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      “US Congress tables resolution opposing Scottish Independence”.

      Thank goodness they have no more pressing issues to worry about like attacking Iraq again and dragging scotland back into the that endless quagmire

    123. JWil says:

      There was something worse than Ebola in Scotland today. The sight of Ed Miliband and Johann Lamont plying their snake oil treatment to the public.

    124. Jim says:

      What about the Big Man from chewin the fat:
      The Big Man says, “I’ll shove ma boot so far up your arse people will think Doc Martin started making hats, now vote YES”.

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      @The Scotswoman says: 8 August, 2014 at 7:00 pm:

      “If any one of them could give me ONE valid reason to stay in this abusive relationship I might listen.”

      Ah! That’s what it was that was bothering me, The Scotswoman, I had some vague notion flittering about in my brain but could not quite put a finger on it. The way these apparently non-celebrity, “Celebs”, pleading with we Scots kept reminding me of something.

      It’s the old abusive partner thing again, you know the one I mean, “Please don’t leave me Darling, I’ll never do it again”.

    126. DougtheDug says:

      Joe Swann

      The only one I had down as a comedian was Stanley Baxter because the last time I saw him on TV it was in black and white so in all honesty I couldn’t put him in under TV.

      I thought everyone understood that by assuring us they were celebrities and their opinions counted for something in the independence referendum the rest were all comedians too.

    127. john king says:

      Seems bagpuss doesnt really have much of an opinion Chitternlicht

      However I think the soup dragon has an opinion

    128. Greannach says:

      John King – I try my best. Still devastated not to see Rod Hull and Emu on the list of luminaries.

    129. john king says:

      this Rod Hull and Emu?

    130. David Stevenson says:

      Bill Morris could be ex TGWU General Secretary, Baron Morris of Handsworth. Don’t think he will have Steel Pulse “Handsworth Revolution” in his vinyl collection.

      William Boyd could be the Scottish guy in the Lord of the Rings films. If so, looks like he has joined the Orcs.

    131. Brian penn says:

      Who’s Bite Maboaby?

    132. Democracy Reborn says:

      O/T, a few titbits:-

      BBC News : Education Secretary Nicky Morgan states that toddlers in England are to be taught “fundamental British values”(!) in an attempt to combat alleged Islamist extremists taking over nurseries. So that’ll be the totally non-nationalist, non-blood & soil, non-narrow, patriotic (but not nationalist) British values then….

      And also : retweet by Stu from Oxfam. The UK is on course to be the no.1 MOST UNEQUAL country in the developed world.

      Better together!

    133. john king says:

      Jim says
      “What about the Big Man from chewin the fat:”

      Aw hey haw big man!

    134. MochaChoca says:

      So, It would be good to know just how these names were rounded up.

      There must be several thousand of these low level celeBRITies scratching around for a living, opening village fetes etc. How many did Dan Snow approach for support, or did he just put the word out in the hope of a tidal wave of names.

      Either way 200 out of a potentail pool of thousands is pretty grim.

    135. Chitterinlicht says:

      Thanks John. Let us go convert some undecideds. 1 each should do it. I have 3 on the turn mainly coz they are fed up with negativity of BT and bully boy tactics. Do they not know we Scots always root for the underdog. Peace

    136. Quentin Quale says:

      Is Fiona Phillips the gmtv word reader now moved on to the cracking PostCode Lottery advert,who introduced Mr Ed at the Welsh Labour Party conference and is always saying she would like to be a Labour candidate from all-woman shortlists in Wales?

    137. Lesley-Anne says:

      He certainly was Croomp. Mind you every time I watch a video of him speaking he is on fire. I don’t know where he gets the strength to do this night after night after night. That said we are trying to get him down into Gretna. I think it will be 10th September but that is going to be a night and a half, I hope. What I really hope though is that the cowards from Labour who organised the set up of the YES camp in Gretna the last time have the guts to show their faces, Tommy will rip them to shreds! 😛

    138. laukat says:

      Looks like the Daily Mail have a poll coming out. Now what do we think a Daily Mail poll will say? Was surprised they used survation last time maybe they will go for the cheap shot and use youguv this time and compare youguv to survation?

      Alan Roden @AlanRoden · 12m
      Coming soon: The first full post-debate #indyref poll. Exclusively in tomorrow’s Scottish Daily Mail.

    139. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffers
      in Women’s Aid these were called “Oscar Winning Performances”. How appropriate that the luvvies should excel themselves in the role of penitent abuser, as understudies of the Westminster elites. Shakespearian I think there’s an Alan Aykbourn in there!

    140. Haggis Hunter says:

      America needs Britland to buy more missiles to protect the Clyde from aliens and other enemies

    141. BigRik says:

      Z list celebs and Z list American backbenchers.. wow , i don’t think i can take the excitement.

    142. Rock says:

      ronnie russell,

      “I tried to contact the US Congress but there is no direct route to send an Email. The only way to reach them is to telephone a particular Congressman which I tried but the number was always engaged.”

      Just send a message addressed to them at any email address you can think of.

      Their intelligence services, and Westtminster’s, will pick it up and forward it to the person concerned!

    143. MochaChoca says:

      Will Carling want’s us to vote NO…. that should be shared to the four corners of Scotand.

    144. Breeks says:

      Isn’t William Boyd one of the Hobbits in Lord of the Rings? Maybe not. He uses the name Billy. He also knows about life in Mordor, and I can’t imagine him wishing that on his kin folk.

    145. BigRik says:

      No doubt if the Milk Snatcher were still with us ,she would be love bombing us as well.

    146. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @J Gedd –

      Here’s a portrait of Maggi Hambling, smoking a fag and scowling.×0-57-maggi-hambling-artist.jpg

      As you can probably tell from the snap, she spends most of her time worrying about Scotland and Scots, and is wearing a tartanish smoking jacket to convey solidarity.

      Go Maggi!

    147. TJenny says:

      Ian B – crivvens that’s a scary pic. Is she related to Tam Dalyell? (West Lothian Questioner).

    148. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Ali says:
      William Boyd is a pretty good novelist. I recommend the New Confessions.

      New Confessions is a great book,and kicks off in Edinburgh.
      But I think Boyd, once he became a successful author, attached himself to the London Establishment.

      A wee irony is that Boyd’s New Confessions protagonist, John James Todd, ends up at one point during WW1 making propaganda films.

    149. davidb says:

      OT Theres a piece on Milliband telling the southern voters his 2015 manifesto will include a veto on CU. Its on the Grauniad website. For some reason there doesn’t appear to be a comment section. Im guessing they are scared to allow comments.

      I don’t see any Labour No stickers on windows btw. I know our millionaire Labour leader is out of touch, but is he that out of touch he wants to allienate his West Of Scotland payroll vote?

      Saw a Labour No bus on the A725 today. I’m not sure but isn’t LSK 555 a Parks bus?

    150. Jon in Chicago says:

      GH Graham @ 7:23 p.m. is largely correct, although would you really want to see any of our heavyweights’ names as sponsors of this legislative chaff?

      I think you can safely ignore this resolution. It’s in a committee, and the House is on vacation until Sept. 8. The Republicans who currently control the House will be too busy foaming at the mouth, attacking President Obama and accusing him of doing the things they never worried about under George W. Bush — all of which boil down to their basic problem with him: “Presidentin’ While Black” — before our Nov. 4 Congressional elections to pay any attention to this.

      If you want to track the resolution’s “progress”, go here:

      Click “Bill Number” and enter “h.res.713” in the search field. (Do not use the abbreviation “hr” or you’ll get a pending bill.)

      Come Sept. 19, the Democrats who endorsed this will welcome you to the family of nations, the Republicans will blame President Obama for allowing the UK to break up, and I will be toasting your success.

    151. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Chitterinlicht says:
      I am still waiting to hear what Bagpus and the Soup Dragon think.

      “Time for YES said Zebedee.”

    152. WIred of Hermiston says:

      I am a Yes voter. But William Boyd is possibly at least three ties better than you will ever be, or any of us for that matter. So play the ball, not the man.

    153. Brian penn says:

      I want to talk about canvassing, I’m truly out of my comfort zone, maybe chapped on 500 doors so far and no idea if I’ve made any difference. On the whole it’s been positive, I hand out aye right leaflets and hope people check it out. My point is this is going to be close, get out there, speak to people as AS said convert one more person each and we’ve won this.

    154. bookie from hell says:

      awesome brian–this why YES need you

      Kevin Maguire associate editor of the Daily Mirror

      The danger for Scotland is the uncertainty of a small No majority because the Nats aren’t going to give up a cause that gets them out of bed in the morning unless they are crushed, and probably not even then.

      In the Autumn of last year a leading light in the Better Together campaign told me privately they needed to win by 60:40 or better still 67:33 so it was a resounding 2-to-1

      That’s unlikely. And the result could be continued uncertainty, the worst of all worlds for Scotland and Great Britian

    155. JGedd says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      God, that’s scary! I wonder if she’s related to Brian Sewell?

    156. Lesley-Anne says:

      laukat says:

      Looks like the Daily Mail have a poll coming out. Now what do we think a Daily Mail poll will say? Was surprised they used survation last time maybe they will go for the cheap shot and use youguv this time and compare youguv to survation?

      Alan Roden @AlanRoden · 12m
      Coming soon: The first full post-debate #indyref poll. Exclusively in tomorrow’s Scottish Daily Mail.

      Oh please, please, PLEASE let’s see a lead for YES. I am almost dribbling my tea down my chin at the prospects of the Daily Mail having to report, cause there is no way then can hide it, that YES are in the lead. 😀

      Meanwhile back down on earth in the world of reality we all know, don’t we, that no matter what the REAL results say the Daily Mail will pull out all the stops to show NO massively in the lead. 😛

    157. Kenlike says:

      Dear La-La Land

      Thanks for your input

      Now fuck off

    158. Faltdubh says:

      Interesting Lesley-Anne,

      I see Euan McColm has tweeted this

      they’ll be nervy at snp towers tonight. if the daily mail poll shows any post-debate yes dip, things are even worse than they look.

      And then

      It’s beginning to feel a lot like 1999 #indyref


      Wonder who they used if it was Survation again, or settled for a nice big No lead thanks to IPSOS/YouGov.

      Nothing from SNP folks..

    159. Faltdubh says:


      Notice Yes Scotland last had a poll in June from Panelbase which was 43/46.
      Wonder if they did one for July and sitting on it? It’d be terrific if we got one out soon and it was level-pegging or a Yes lead.

    160. lumilumi says:

      (Sorry, haven’t read all the comments above)

      The point of the BBC and some of the more rabid UKOK press to big up this pathetic flash in the pan in the US congressional life is of course to make SCARY headlines for the (supposedly) stupid Scottish voters.

      “See, even the BIG country, the USA, wants you to stay with the mother country. You don’t want to make the BIG country angry at you.”

      Apparently the threat of the big country closer to home (the UK, or England – interchangeable as they see it) getting angry at Scotland wasn’t enough to scare and control the unruly natives, so David Cameron called in a few favours stateside. The BBC reporting ensuring that he and the US President and US Congress end up looking like total tits.

      Whatever happened to Cameron’s “it’s for the people of Scotland to decide”? (His excuse for not debating Alex Salmond live on TV.)

      He’s been fishing far and wide internationally. He’s got Spain’s Rajoy onside (because Rajoy faces a similar problem re. Catalonia) and Putin for a while (that love-in seems to have soured somewhat) and of course that special relationship with the US.

      Now, consider what newly independent Scotland’s international relatios would be. There is a lot of goodwill all around the world.

      The Nordics think Scotland is “our” bit of Britain, the bit like us, the French remember the auld alliance (even if just to annoy the English), Russians love Burns almost as much as Pushkin. Canucks, Ozzies, Kiwis are historically largely decendent from Highland cleared Scots. Americans love independence and golf at the home of the game, Argentina just wants to get one up on England, the Chinese love whisky and salmon and even bought SPL fitba for their TV network, and on and on. Everybody loves Scotland. The world can’t wait to welcome you! The only sour faces will be in London and maybe Washington.

      The NOs look backwards and some even hanker after the lost Empire, the YESes look forward to a modern democracy and all those exciting new opportunities.

      A NO vote would be a real tragedy for Scotland and the people of Scotland.

    161. Patrician says:

      I surely couldn’t be the only person on seeing this list of sellebs, didn’t think Chris Morris and Cake on Brass Eye.

    162. Lesley-Anne says:

      To be honest Faltdubh I’m actually getting a wee bit edgy about this poll. I can’t think why I usually couldn’t give a monkey’s. The only possible reason is if there is a dip, of any proportion, then I think we all know the sort of headlines we can expect to see in the MSM.

      I think the best news to come out of the poll would be to see the figures closing even further. That would gee up the YES side and send the NO side into a death spiral. Alistair Darling started the death spiral on Tuesday night, I hope the polling results increases this. 😛

    163. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Jon in Chicago

      Thanks for the info, brother.

      I look forward in the not too distant future to travelling to the States on my Scottish passport.

    164. Faltdubh says:

      As for McColm’s it’s beginning to look like 1999 #indyref Tweet.

      Just had a wee look at Scots parli results then –
      Labour 56 SNP 35.

      Wonder if that’s a subtle hint at the numbers in this poll coming up?

      Even if the polls have us behind or so. I just don’t feel that when talking to people. These last 3 weeks I’ve seen a huge surge of people showing their support on Facebook etc for Yes – if it’s adding the Yes banner to their profile pic and many of them getting numerous likes or simply sharing a Yes/Scottish indepdendence positive story.

      Of course there have been a few No thanks stuff added too, but it’s about 6-1 on average to Yes on that scale.

    165. laukat says:


      Its not going to good news. McDougall is tweeting about it coming out which is a sure sign he thinks it good for No

      It is Survation so expect either a drop of at best a flat line. Last time survation polled it was 47/53

    166. Truth says:

      I do wonder if Frances Barber was on the list begging us to stay.


    167. Faltdubh says:

      Lesley-Anne, I agree 100%

      If it’s Survation and a 1-2 drop/gain, it’s fine really. Margin of error etc, if it’s much higher it’s disappointing to be honest.

      If they’ve gone with YouGov/IPSOS – I don’t really care. We’ve read the rumous about Ipsos on Tuesday’s debate and seen the Yougov poll numbers in the past that simply don’t add up compared to ICM, Panelbase, Survation etc.

      Just have to wait and see, I’m too feart (not too wee, maybe too stupid tho 😉 to look at any BT activist’s websites to hear or see them crowing about this poll.

      See what happens in the next few hours/

    168. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just seen the canvassing results from St. Cyrus tonight. Hold onto your hats. Anyone eating or drinking STOP immediately before proceeding any further! 😉 😛

      NO 20%

      Undecided 29%

      Do you really need me to tell you what YES results are?

      Oh O.K. but be warned! 😀

      YES 51%

    169. Ian Brotherhood says:

      There are hundreds of other non-Scots whose opinions we need to hear before making an informed decision.

      Here’s BBC weatherman Tomasz Schafernaker, with his unique presenting style, mentioning Edinburgh…

    170. JGedd says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      Greannach (8.29pm) says that the Maggi Hambling he knew was a fish gutter in Troon in the 1960s. The Maggi in the photo certainly looks as if she could gut fish. Doesn’t she live by the sea and put driftwood and things in her sculptures? Greannach could be on to something. She looks like she could be from Troon right enough.

    171. laukat says:

      Don’t think this survation poll is going to be good judging by the tweets from pro-union journalists

      See Euan McColm or Alan Roddens twitter feed if you can stomach it

    172. handclapping says:

      There’s a lady over on Curtice’s blog who thinks there is something wrong not only with the IPSOS-Mori poll but all the polls as the Scottish population is not homogenous and its breaking ‘nothing to loose’ v ‘Im alright Jack’ and the poll samples are not designed to pick that up.

      At least that’s what I think shes saying but she admits shes no expert and neither am I.

    173. Ian Brotherhood says:

      And what about Rob McElwee?

      We have a right to know what the man thinks – he’s even got a Scottishy-sounding name!

    174. Tam Jardine says:

      My puny Samsung canny cope with the previous thread on currency so here goes (off topic I’m afraid)

      Was there ever a population so schooled in economics as we are now? Jesus- it feels like we are all engaged in an Economics degree to the extent that I reckon I could take a fair stab at an essay entitled ‘currency options in an interconnected market’ or some such lofty matter. Thank you Rev.

      The No camp are faced with such extreme contradictions it is only through the media’s aggressive role and that of the polling companies that there is any doubt in a landslide Yes vote.

      For example: if we are doing so well right now under the current arrangement, why would the rest of the UK not want to enter into a currency union with us in the future?

      And if we are a basket case economy then we have surely not been well served by Westminster, and would be foolish to think the next 300 years are going to be well served under Westminster.

      If the union has been so beneficial to us, why do just over, or just under 50% of the population want to end it?

      If we are such a drain on the rest of the UK’S finances, why are they fighting with every sinew of their being to make us stay?

      And if the oil is running out, why are oil companies investing record amounts exploring and extracting this dwindling reserve? Talking to my brother in Norway, who works in the industry, areas that have been surveyed to death are revealing new deposits in the North Sea never mind in the virgin fields West of Shetland and the rest of the West coast and Firths, through new surveying technology and techniques.

      One question no one from the audience the other night asked (and I wished they had): why is Mr Darling known throughout the Yes camp and beyond as Flipper? And why should any taxpayer believe a word he says on the basis of that answer?

      Me – I trust Alex Salmond as he has served us well as first minister – he has got us to this point and he has a vision for Scotland that I want to see realised.

      I also like the idea, if there is a heaven and I ever meet our national heroes, Wallace, Andrew Murray, Robert the Bruce and of course, Robert Burns; if they ask me how I voted in the hour when Scotland needed me, when the enemy was at the gates and it fell on me to decide who should run our country: I will be able to hold my head up and say ‘Yes’.

      Can you imagine at that moment bringing up the currency union?

      This may not be helpful to the debate but I am a romantic – I’ll leave the economics to Alex ‘ s trusted fiscal comission, Ivor McKee and Team Scotland to figure out.

      One last thought for anyone encountering a No voter or DK fed up with the whole referendum business: vote Yes and we never need go through this process again. Vote No and we will be back here, re-energised in a few years time to go through it all again. Better just vote Yes and get on with our lives in a better country.

    175. Nana Smith says:

      From Yes Scotland twitter

      Polls suggest that more than 200,000 Scottish Labour supporters intend to vote Yes #indyref

    176. goldenayr says:

      G H Graham@7:23

      “It’s the equivalent of the Dunkeld Womens Institute forwarding a nation wide motion to publish a scud book for the over 70?s in an attempt to raise some money for a naked scone baking competition”

      Oy! That’s my wife your talking about.

      She’s already made a mint from the BBC Scotlandshire pic on the “Poultice: Darling needs to give Scotlandshire viewers what they want ” story.

    177. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I don’t think the polls are having much effect anymore.
      I would never think of changing my opinion or vote on a poll result and I think that goes for any intelligent informed person.
      I have never experienced so many young women coming into our YES shop.

      There is also a perception growing that the polls are “fiddled” which is very useful (and true)

    178. Ian Brotherhood says:

      And here’s Helen Young.

      By some extraordinary synchronicity, she’s delivering exactly the same forecast as McElwee i.e. ‘Scotland = Blizzards’

    179. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @JGedd –

      Maggi Hambling could gut fish just by looking at them.

    180. Another Union Dividend says:

      What is it about anti Scottish independence spokespeople that they do not understand that Scotland will be using the pound come what may.

      Spoke to activist this evening in Edinburgh South one of the most unlikely areas to come out for a Yes vote and he says canvass returns show Yes and No are running neck and neck with 20% undecideds.

      Loads of Yes posters n Marchmont and a YES shop has just opened in Mmornimgside of all places with a regular stream of visitors wanting Yes materials and more info.

      Keep the faith and get out on the doorsteps to speak to voters

    181. superjaxx says:

      I really appreciate the sentiment, and I am sure most Scots feel as warmly towards the rest of the UK as they feel towards us.But the fact that they are talking about division and nationality, just goes to show that this is a PR stunt and none of them have bothered to listen to the debate at all. They may have read a couple of newspaper articles and now they think they know everything about the debate. 

      Scots have quite legitimate concerns and aggrievances about how this country is run, and it woukd have been nice if they had acknowledged that. What would have been a much more effective letter would have been something like:

      We understand the democratic deficit in this country. We agree that Westminster politics is out of date and not fit for purpose. It does not represent the people of these islands well, and we feel the same desire as you Scots to reform our political system so it more fairly represents our people and our ambitions as a union of nations. Let us stand together and march on Westminster and demand change for the better of us all.

      Personally I would have thought words to that effect would have more impact and would have demonstrated they had given our referendum more than five minutes thought.

    182. Colin says:

      All we need is Paul gasoline greetin for us to stay and we will have a full house.

    183. bjsalba says:

      for the best info on polls go to Scot Goes POP.

    184. Colin says:

      All we need is Paul Gascoigne greetin for us to stay and we will have a full house.

    185. HandandShrimp says:

      As I said earlier I think there is a pretty determined Project Fear effort going trying to create momentum on the back of something we already knew regarding Plan A on currency. I expect Osborne/Alexander to follow up Miliband’s macho posturing over the weekend.

      No idea what the Mail poll will come up with but Better Together types seem to be as thick as thieves with the newspapers tweeting about these polls hours before they are released. I simply don’t trust newspapers. The recent trials have revealed exactly the sort of people we are dealing with here and isn’t pretty. Liars, frauds and hypocrites.

    186. Faltdubh says:

      I know so many of us are committed to a Yes, but if the polls continue to show a No lead or them extending it, I’m fearful of the non political DK/soft yes who may end up catching the oddheadline from IPSOS or YouGov “Yes 15% behind” etc and think to themselves Why bother.

    187. goldenayr says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      @JGedd –

      Maggi Hambling could gut fish just by looking at them

      Still scooping up my lower intestine.

    188. Greannach says:

      In this day and age, a letter from 200 superstars just won’t cut it. Why don’t the megastars put on a NO Factor show? They could showcase their arguments for the Scots to reject democracy through song, drama and modern dance. I’ll definitely vote No if I see cultural titans like Gyles Brandreth and Pam Ayres, for instance, performing the Dance of the Seven Veils to encourage a No vote on live TV. Any other suggestions? It could turn into a Nostival.

    189. WRH2 says:

      I heard Ed on radio Scotland this morning talking utter bilge. Even Gary Robertson felt obliged to point out some of the inconsistencies in his rubbish about extra powers if we do as we’re told and vote naw. It got me thinking though just what would happen if we are that daft. The Yessers are going to be asking when the new super shiny powers are going to appear but so are the Naws. Have they realised that this silly, meaningless tactic could unite yes and naw and leave them with an even bigger problem on their hands? How they plan to get anything through HoC and HoL is another big headache they will have to resolve.

    190. BuckieBraes says:

      I wonder whether any of the ‘Let’s Stay Together’ celebs might now be requesting removal of their names from the list in the face of this cybernat lampoonery (in other words, you don’t know what you’re talking about, so butt out).

      Even better, some of them might even genuinely change their minds.

      David Attenborough, Joan Bakewell, Rob Brydon, Tony Robinson…you’re certainly better than this.

    191. lumilumi says:

      No UK or Scotland-wide polls are designed for this unique referendum.

      “Scottish” polls are usually replicated UK polls with slightly different weighting, so they fail to capture the uniquely Scottish mood anyway.

      They fail to capture the new Scottish political culture with a PR Parliament and canny Scottish voters voting differently for Westmister/Holyrood.

      And of course no poll can capture (i.e. build a supposedly representative sample) the mood on a non-party-political one-off thing like the referendum.

      There will be quite a lot of Lab voters voting YES, LibDem voters voting YES, even Tory voters voting YES. Some SNP voters voting NO. The polling companies are in a cononrum to keep their professioanl integrity.

      Their commissioners might’ve asked hugely leading questions and they might’ve manipulated weightings to produce the results the (UKOK) commissioners want.

      But getting the indy ref spectacularly wrong for short term gain (for the bosses) could harm all the polling companies and their professional reputations.

      It’s the same old story: personal greed and money over integrity and honesty and moderate personal remuneration.

      Vote YES to get rid of excess “experts” and “consultant”. Especially if they’re old school chums of leading politicians (like they seem to be in Westminster).

    192. Jon in Chicago says:

      @ Democracy Reborn (10:03 p.m.):

      Glad to help! You and your Scottish passport, and your pounds, will be most welcome here. (Naturally I have to put in two cents/pence for Chicago to be on your itinerary…)

    193. James S says:

      Dan Snow is son in law to the Duke of Westminster, also holding the title of Duke of Sutherland – and ‘owns’ 94,817 acres of the Highlands.

      The 1st Duke of Sutherland started the highland clearances:

      To landlords, “improvement” and “clearance” did not necessarily mean depopulation. At least until the 1820s, when there were steep falls in the price of kelp, landlords wanted to create pools of cheap or virtually free labour, supplied by families subsisting in new crofting townships. Having the crofters collect and process kelp yielded profits to the landlords, and they petitioned successfully for legislation designed to stop emigration, leading to the Passenger Vessels Act 1803. Attitudes changed during the 1820s and, for many landlords, the Great Potato Famine, which began in 1846, became another reason to encourage or force emigration and depopulation.

      Which means Dan Snow wants to protect 0.5% of the total land area of Scotland – somewhat larger than most houses or foodbanks. Remember this same father in law is Duke of Westminster – where the House of Commons and House of Lords are – he is the landlord of the Palace of Westminster.

    194. goldenayr says:


      Been thinking that for awhile.We’re organising cars for polling day to ferry the yes voters,hard,soft and wavering to the polling stations.Hopefully that will make a difference.

    195. goldenayr says:


      Are we going back to JoLa doing her FMQ carcrash through the medium of interpretive dance again?

      AAAARGH! Maggi Hambling in a leotard…HELP!MUMMY!

    196. Tam Jardine says:


      Aye – but how many of the soft No type who really don’t want to vote against their country’s independence will take a no poll lead as an excuse not to bother voting? A fair few I’m guessing.

      The RIC mass canvass result is much more pertinent than anything the major polling companies thrown at us right now and for many reasons:

      it shows support for Yes in amongst the unpolled masses

      it stimulates Yes leaning voters to register and get involved

      it gives an opportunity for fears to be allayed

      it shows people that the Yes movement is interested in them and their support

      the numbers polled demonstrates the vast nature of the Yes movement – the reason why we are winning this

      That’s the poll I am waiting for

    197. Training Day says:

      I mentioned the other day that polls are now the bedrock of the BT narrative. No MSM poll will ever show Yes ahead.

      Attempt to demoralise pre-referendum; use the polls narrative to justify a rigged vote post-referendum.

      If anyone doubts they would attempt to rig it, simply examine their behaviour to date.

    198. goldenayr says:

      Anyone watching Newsnight?

      Am I hearing right? Westminster want to legalise ALL drugs?

    199. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’ve been thinking, yes yes I know it causes damage to my solitary brain cell but hey I can’t help it all right 😉 .

      I read an article by John Curtice, yes folks I’m afraid it is THAT John Curtice, where he mentions how YouGov had weighted a poll by how the people being asked the questions had voted in the 2011 Holyrood elections. I’ve been of the opinion for some considerable time now that this is exactly how all the polling companies have been weighting their polls for some time. Unfortunately for the polling companies this idea can NEVER cater for people who did NOT vote for the SNP but are now voting YES in September. This is why I will always say the polling results are flawed.

      Hitherto YouGov have weighted their data by a mixture of general measure of whether or not people support or feel close to a party (known as ‘party identification’ – and not, as I have previously written, how people actually voted in the 2010 Westminster election, though party identification tends to be closer to Westminster than Holyrood vote) while checking what that weighting produced in terms of how people said they voted in the Holyrood election of 2011. This time, however, YouGov have weighted solely by how people say they voted in 2011, though in so doing they have, unusually, included a separate weight for those who said they voted Labour in 2010 but then backed the SNP in 2011.

      No doubt someone with the proper insight to how polling works will be along shortly to shoot this post down in flames. 😛

    200. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Telegraph News 14h

      Downing Street rules out possibility of UK involvement in #Iraq

      “UK considers air strikes in Iraq” #skypapers 20min

      SAS deployed in Iraq #DailyMirror 35m

      Another War in Iraq. #BetterTogether?

    201. Johnny says:

      No expert, but the last sentence there seems interesting where it says they added weighting for those who voted Labour in 2010 but SNP in 2011. I wonder if that is their way of trying to discount some 2011 SNP voters just on the grounds that ‘oh, they’d only vote SNP outside a Westminster election and don’t really want independence’.

    202. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 8 August, 2014 at 9:15 pm:

      “in Women’s Aid these were called “Oscar Winning Performances”. How appropriate that the luvvies should excel themselves in the role of penitent abuser, as understudies of the Westminster elites. Shakespearian I think there’s an Alan Aykbourn in there”

      Sorry to be slow in answer but I went off to the live stream with Tommy Sheridan. Now I’ve just frightened the wee dog by roaring at Dan Snow telling us he doesn’t want Scotland to leave us and become a different country. How absolutely ignorant are these people? Doesn’t the numptie know what the two words, “UNITED”, and “Kingdom” mean in his own native English Language?

      United means joined together and kingdom’s means royal realms and the second one does not mean, “COUNTRY”.

      The UK is not a counter, never was and never will be.

      Arrrrgh! There goes the blood pressure.

    203. Lesley-Anne says:

      But … but … but … this is why they’re Better Thanks/NO Together/Project Feart or whatever they call themselves this week.

      Where is Tony Blair when we really, really, REALLY need him. I’m certain he’d be able to take this Iraq situation and tell us all that we need to invade cause there is a missile already on its way to hit Rockall or somewhere. 😛

    204. Morag says:

      O/T HandandShrimp, Soapy Sam emailed me this afternoon to say there is a real danger of the JREF forum disappearing from the internet and get any PMs or anything you want to keep out of there as soon as you can.

      Having been over for a look, it seems as if a backup has now been done, but the political situation is more volatile than the database (which is saying something) so I think his advice still stands.

    205. Cindie says:

      Regarding polls, I had a conversation with my children last night, both in their early 20s about how their friends in Scotland are voting. They have several hundred friends in the same age group between them. It seems like they are yes, by a factor of about 10/1 and not one of them has ever been polled

    206. TJenny says:

      Iain Gray’s Subway Lament – ‘another war in Iraq?’ Wonder if we’ll see that back bench motion to re-introduce national service for England+ Wales rushed through it’s last stages? Hmm.

    207. goldenayr says:


      Re your weighting comment,posted this awhile back.

      Washington Post also cover it.

      BTW Sent you an email,don’t know if you can help.

    208. caz-m says:

      “Am I hearing right? Westminster want to legalise ALL drugs?”

      Just the Lib/Dems. The same Party who will not bring in tuition fees in England.

    209. caz-m says:

      Uk may send fighter jets into Iraq.

      I thought that had to be approved by the wee Westminster Parly thingy.

    210. goldenayr says:



      You’ll have to pay for it but hopefully you’ll be to stoned to notice what we’re doing.

    211. goldenayr says:

      Fighters are already in Iraq…

      Or at least they will be when Westminster can afford them.

      How can they send fighters in to Iraq unless they have a base of operations like Israel who would be willing to comply and…

      Hmmm..someone smell fish?

    212. Robert Peffers says:

      @Haggis Hunter says: 8 August, 2014 at 9:18 pm:

      “America needs Britland to buy more missiles to protect the Clyde from aliens and other enemies”.

      What is bothering the Yanks is that Scotland occupies a rather strategic place in the World for the navigational and defence Radar systems. If you do not believe me study a globe of the World and ask why we have regular NATO exercises round our coasts. As most of us know NATO is mainly USA led. That being so the Bitter Together threat of Scotland not being a NATO member is the usual mince that flows so freely, along with halitosis, from their big wide open mouths. The point being that those Yank numpties, including Obama, are going the right way to have the independent Scotland tell them not just to get their WMDs out of Scotland but to levy a steep charge for their RADARS and other NATO gear or to get them out of Scotland. These people are either ignorant of the facts or totally stupid to attempt to browbeat we Scots.

    213. Faltdubh says:

      Tam Jardine

      Very valid true and hopefully they won’t vote.

      We will this! No matter how shite this next poll out in the Mail is.

      Just look around, talk to your neighbour, we are winning. I’m seeing tons of pro yes stuff on Facebook from previously unpoitical people – either posting up yes profile pics, or liking photos of yes things, or even forwarding something from a Yes group.

      Sure there is a No presence too, but we in my circle, are beating them 5-1.

    214. caz-m says:

      Future Prime Minister BoJo announces he is standing for Parliament.

      Future Deputy Prime Minister Nigel Farage announces he is standing for Parliament.

      All the pieces are falling into place.

    215. big jock says:

      Blair McDougal seems to be on the night shift eating Bridies!So the poll must be good for no.Its the Daily Mail so let’s not care either way.I am convinced the pollsters are deliberately picking and choosing who they poll.Yes are ahead but msm need to convince people we are behind.Darling was pish on Tuesday utter pish but he couldn’t lose with the msm.

    216. When these members of Congress vote to rejoin us under British rule maybe we’ll take them seriously.

    217. caz-m says:


      Seriously, does the UK Government not need to get the approval of the House of Commons before it can commit fighter jets to war zones?

    218. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 8 August, 2014 at 9:28 pm:

      “Isn’t William Boyd one of the Hobbits in Lord of the Rings? Maybe not. He uses the name Billy. He also knows about life in Mordor, and I can’t imagine him wishing that on his kin folk.”

      Oh! Dear! Here I go showing my age again. William, (Bill), Boyd, was the film star who played Hopalong Cassidy in cowboy pictures when I was a wee boy going to the local bug house picture house matinee. late 1930s and early 1940s. Don’t know who the new guy is though.

    219. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      “caz-m says:

      Uk may send fighter jets into Iraq.

      I thought that had to be approved by the wee Westminster Parly thingy.”

      Nah, just Obama.

      Cameron will just do it by increment and stealth after he fucked it up over Syria. Humanitarian action, averting genocide, support role, that kind of thing. Same things used for Libya but Cameron will backpeddle and downplay the intervention talk until it becomes an ’emergency’ to avoid genocide. Then he’ll likely push an emergency vote and brief to his backbenchers in private that it’s also to keep the SAS deployed there safe.

      We’re already in it to be blunt. Once Cameron supported the U.S. military action that was that. If you have friends or family in the forces you might want to talk about it with them though I’ve a feeling most of them will be well aware of it by now.

      It’s not going to ramp all the way up for a while yet but this is Iraq and there’s only one direction of travel once it get’s to this stage.

    220. laukat says:

      @big jock

      I would normally agree but Yes need a boost quickly from somewhere. At this stage Momentum is everything.

      I think the poll tonight will be very bad and to be honest anything less that a 6% swing to know would be better than I expect

    221. Tam Jardine says:

      My mates are Yes almost to a man. Colleagues I would say 6 yes, 1 no and 2 undecided, both looking for reasons to vote yes.

      Family who can vote 4 yes to 2 No, 1 undecided.

      It’s a small snapshot but it is unweighted, real and subject to some work from me between now and polling day.

      Game on

    222. goldenayr says:


      Not anymore.

      Since the introduction of the terrorist legislation,it allows the PM to declare anyone a terrorist and use the full force of the country against them.

      Note I said “country” and not armed forces.

    223. Tam Jardine says:


      Last comment for your benefit. Forgot to address

    224. TJenny says:

      Tam – but that’s ’cause you’ve got winning ways. 🙂

    225. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks fore the link goldenayr. I’ve sent you an e-mail hope it helps. 😉

    226. Les Wilson says:

      I think we all have to be very wary of any of these polls, remember who we are up against.
      The polls can be rigged in many ways and selective parts chosen to highlight. So we should go on the assumption that we should pay them no attention as they WILL be rigged by the dark forces.

    227. goldenayr says:

      Robert Peffers

      The way things are going,we’ll be back to Jeely Jaurs for entry.

    228. Tam Jardine says:


      I ain’t taking credit for the majority of those I mentioned – a few I have guided but most are driven to Yes by the No campaign. And I would be surprised if more than a couple of yessers in my immediate circle had signed the nigh on 1 million signatory pledge!

    229. big jock says:

      Yes Les I am not confident of the polls.I have noticed a big change in my work colleagues.They are all asking how much yes need to win.Before it was rarely talked about and presumed no would win.I think there are so many shy yes voters who will vote yes on the day and not tell anyone until the result.

    230. goldenayr says:


      Thanks again.

    231. caz-m says:

      Sky News presenter just said sixteen year olds will be voting NO so they can continue to get jobs down south.

    232. hetty says:

      Yes we are seeing many more YES posters even in Edinburgh new town! And, some nice tourists from South if the border stopped and photographed our cut out YES sign couple days ago, fair cheered me up that did. Had to cut round YES letters so it didnt block light, being a bit deplete of such luxuries in a basement! Looks ok though.
      Oh and my 19 yr old son pointed out hechas never been polled either, who are they polling?

    233. laukat says:

      looks like 37Y/50N which would be an increase of 4 to N and a loss of 3 to Yes. Approx 7% swing

      Not good

    234. laukat says:

      Without undecideds 43%/57%

    235. goldenayr says:

      Tell you what guys,watching “Your Highness” on Film4.Killing myself laughing,not because of the jokes.Rather the inescapable analogy of the film and the labour party.

      Lets hope they come good in the end too.

      At least their replacement will.

    236. Harry McAye says:

      Oh dear a Daily Mail financed poll that’s bad for Yes. What a shock! I’ll no sleep tonight. Sunday Herald haven’t done a poll since mid-June, is one due?

    237. Nana Smith says:

      I’m sure the polls are rigged.

    238. big jock says:

      But its within the margin of error! Does anyone believe it and its 6 weeks to vote.Spin and propaganda will continue but we know the polls are wrong.Stand fast people.

    239. big jock says:

      Harry I think Yes are due a poll which maybe the Herald.

    240. Lesley-Anne says:

      I don’t think it is a case of not looking good laukat but definitively more a case of a extremely stitched up polling.

      Let’s face it almost every night we go on Twitter or Facebook or both and every night it is the same thing, meeting after meeting all coming out massively for YES. Add onto that all the canvassing going on all over Scotland again the vast majority coming out positively for YES then it leaves me to come to one conclusion and one conclusion only … the polling companies are definitively rigging the results of all referendum polls to show a lead for NO.

      No one can read all the posts we all read night after night and believe that YES is behind. YES is ahead, I firmly believe that but we will NEVER see the BBC/MSM ever produce a polling result to show this. The one and only reason that the polling companies keep doing these *ahem* polls is to ensure Better Thanks/NO Together/Project Feart or whatever can continue to massage their broken dreams!

    241. Marcia says:

      Polls between now and 18 Sept will be up and down like a rollercoaster. Far too early for No to think it is in the bag as it is not.

    242. Lochside says:

      How about Jim Webb, US Senator who wrote ‘Born Fighting’ The story of the Ulster Scots who won the American Revolution against the Brits? Could he not organise a counter petition from the Scots diaspora within the US Houses?

      o/t Jim Webb reminds that I heard Glen Campbell (geddit? spooky connection… Witchita Lyingsman…sorry Linesman).

      Anyway said hack was on Radio Scot reporting on twin towns of ‘Boring’ and ‘Dull’ in Oregon. Just like Glen, two mediocre entities in search of attention. The story, like Glen, was about as interesting or as amusing as Alistair Darling’s view on Currency Union.

      But surely a better match for Glen would have been to send him to Bald Nob, Arizona? A good match for the wee baldy f*cker….. Easy’s past the watershed!

      It’s good to know our BBC licence is being spent on worthy and significant international issues, by sending this nonentity on headline grabbing stories!

    243. jules says:

      Not a great poll but 43/57 still within reach and given the media feeding frenzy over recent days, it could have been worse.

      If the polls can move down so quickly, they can move up just as fast.

      It’s the grassroots that can win this, not one MSP.

    244. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I am a Yes voter. But William Boyd is possibly at least three ties better than you will ever be, or any of us for that matter.”

      Well, I’ve never seen any of his ties so he might be a really snappy dresser, but who the hell IS he?

    245. Indy_Scot says:

      Everyone knows that all polls are rigged, especially unionist polls.

      This poll has as much credibility as the one that gave Labour a 20 point lead in 2011 just before the SNP produced a landslide outright majority.

    246. goldenayr says:

      Polls schmolls

      What are we getting on the doorsteps folks?

      I kept asking as Fuarach Blas on the BT FB page what results they were getting on the doorsteps(probably why he was banned).Not a single answer,references to yougov etc but not one could say or would say.

      Try it guys,one tip,the only way to get an instant reply is to like their page,don’t,and watch oot for MI5.They’re hauching on there.

    247. Training Day says:

      MSM polls will NOT be up and down like a roller coaster between now and Sept 18th. They will show unanimously a healthy No lead.

      Are we still at the juvenile stage of investing any worth in this orchestrated bullshit? If so I despair.

    248. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Need we remind ourselves if we lost the plot over one poll there would have been no landslide in 2011?

      Today we also had the poll showing the tories beating labour so if anyone in ‘better together’ starts trying to get triumphalist best remind them and the scottish public of that one.

      Another tory government next year isn’t a theory, it’s becoming increasingly close to an inevitability, with the hopeless Miliband looking as unelectable as Kinnock was.

    249. goldenayr says:

      “Well, I’ve never seen any of his ties so he might be a really snappy dresser, but who the hell IS he?”

      Well he’s not me and I’ve still got my City silk ties from the Eighties.

      Nothing snappier than them…or is that shit?

    250. caz-m says:

      1% of the voting public in Scotland is about 42,000 voters.

      So after nearly two weeks of Commonwealth Games, in which Scotland excelled, the Daly Mail is saying that it caused 3%, over 126,000 Scottish voters to say, “that’s convinced me, I’m going back to voting NO.”

      I don’t know of one voter who has went back to voting NO, never mind 126,000.

    251. Lesley-Anne says:

      In other news today.

      Nigel Farage is to stand for Westminster in the 2015 General Election in the seat of Thanet in Kent. 😛

    252. Robert Peffers says:

      @caz-m says: 8 August, 2014 at 11:40 pmg:

      “Seriously, does the UK Government not need to get the approval of the House of Commons before it can commit fighter jets to war zones?”

      No! The PM can take the country to war.

    253. goldenayr says:

      Maybe somebody should send this lot a link to the Sillars death threats story from here.

    254. caz-m says:

      As I said earlier on today, get a hold of the list of addresses of YES voters in your area from the local YES group or RIC and put the YES window posters through their letterbox along with a car sticker.

      It lifts the YES profile and generates confidence amongst other shy YES voters.

    255. goldenayr says:

      Robert Peffers

      Is that not what I said?

    256. caz-m says:

      Robert Peffers

      It looks like we are going back into Iraq then. And this ISIS outfit are no mugs. A very mean fighting machine. Very well trained in gorilla warfare and very committed.

    257. Robert Peffers says:

      @goldenayr says: 8 August, 2014 at 11:49 pm

      “The way things are going,we’ll be back to Jeely Jaurs for entry.”

      Been there did that. Wi didna hae T-shirts back then. Ah haed a Fair Isle pullover but.

    258. caz-m says:

      “Is that not what I said?”

      You sure did my friend.

    259. Faltdubh says:

      The poll is very disappointing, but like Iain Grey’s subway said.

      We’ve won before on shitey polls 2007, 2011 and although this isn’t SNP, SSP, Green we are campaigning for, this is a Yes-No vote.

      There are a huge amount of people I’ve met alone (I’m not popular), but just from pub visits, social media etc who have never voted or voted once maybe, or even voted Labour. This isn’t for the SNP in a council by-election in Fife or the Borders.

      This is ”Should Scotland be a country?” All these people will all vote yes.

      I don’t know if I’d go as far as saying the polls are rigged or not. These results, and even MORE SO after the Salmond-Darling debate are showing more people not just engaged, but I’ve had requests (6 since Tues) for more Yes info and PDFs etc to be sent via e-mail.

      What else is strange about this poll is that how can Survation have such a large gap fo No (going on one debate) unless they’ve contacted non-referendum interested voters? I can’t imagine if you were a Yes or DK, and had been previously surveyed by Survation that (if you were Yes/DK back 6 months) that one hyped up debate would change your mind much, would it?

      Again, I’m not saying there is bias, but it’s a bit sus really seeing such a large jump.

      Let’s see what Panelbase has to say.

    260. Training Day says:

      If I have to read another earnest article from a wetnat assiduously explaining why a fall of 4 percent in a rigged MSM poll is actually good news for Yes then, Dana, sign me up!

    261. goldenayr says:

      Robert Peffers

      An Arran sweater,knitted by my own “fair” hand.

    262. AndyC says:

      We all know by now these polls are rigged in favour of the State agenda, so just totally ignore them.
      I’m amazed at the amount of local people who are voting yes.
      They seem to be coming out of the closet as the 18th nears!
      Just don’t even discuss these polls….what do you really expect them to show?
      For all I know some knumpty might just be making them up!
      Publish details of WHO was polled and why so it can be verified.
      Have you,or any of your friends or family been polled….No, I thought not!
      1200 people were polled…oh really?….prove it!
      The whole thing is bollox.
      The only poll that probably mattered was the one that was paid for and never published.
      The establishment KNOW they are losing, but will keep this shit going to the end.
      In pure desperation who knows what they will try next

    263. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      I’m seeing lots of No supporters wanting Darling to pull out of any more debates.

      Which begs the question.

      If things are going so well for No and Darling was so great for them why would they chicken out?

      Don’t believe the unionist spin. No are still very, very worried, and with their ground campaign looking like an afterthought they have every reason to be.

    264. benarmine says:

      William Boyd, forgettable novelist and screenwriter, writing the next Bond movie. Educated at Gordonstoun, almost certainly has more ties than me. ( one )

    265. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Maybe another Iraq War and the tories beating labour in today’s poll is actually good news for No, Training Day?

      Or maybe not.

    266. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Rev –

      William Boyd attended Glasgow University.

    267. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well here is the poll results we have all been waiting for folks. The fieldwork was carried out between the 6yh and 7th of August.

      Now compare it with this poll by the same company when the fieldwork was carried out between 30th July and 1st August.

      Now you can call me a cynic but two polls by the same company within a week of each other and amazingly there is a complete turnaround in the figures. Is it just me or does anyone else think Survation got their hands slapped for having the audacity to produce the first poll results. 😛

    268. Robert Peffers says:

      @Nana Smith says: 9 August, 2014 at 12:05 am:

      I’m sure the polls are rigged.

      They don’t need to rig them, Nana Smith. The just do what they have always done for normal political party elections.

      The worst ones have subscribed people that get polled so after a few times they know the, (sometimes paid), subscribers politics. Then the pollsters who use random phone calls use land line phones. How many poor folks do you know who can afford land line phones? They carry pay-as-you-go mobiles. Stop-in-the-street pollsters go to High Streets – not to sprawling council estates. Thus there are a big lump of the YES supporters who do not ever get polled. Trouble is that these are the people who are also mostly disengaged from politics and voting. Hence the mass doorstep surveys by certain YES groups.

    269. Rock says:

      Stuart, isn’t it time for WOS to do a decent poll?

      A Yes lead will be dismissed by the MSM but it will show us the real situation.

      Anyone has any idea of what internal polling by Yes Scotland and the SNP shows?

    270. crazycat says:

      @ AndyC

      I’ve been polled, repeatedly. I’ve been polled because I signed up to lots of panels, to get the (rather small) financial rewards. Usually the questions are about shampoo, or insurance, or cars, but I put up with these for the occasional chance to express political opinions.

      As far as I know, all the members of these panels have volunteered; people who have strong opinions about detergents which they want to share probably have strong opinions about other things, which they also want to share. We can be weighted with respect to age, sex, income, location, etc, but we are still self-selecting and possibly not representative of the electorate as a whole for a non-party ballot. This will be demonstrated, or not, when the time comes.

    271. Papadox says:

      Vote YES for ENDLESS HOPE.

      Vote no for a HOPELESS END.


    272. heedtracker says:

      This is the lowest the Guardian has stooped so far and a strange character like Libby Carrell knows no depths. How this broadsheet call itself serious but leave out completely stuff like just how bad no CU would be for England, let alone losing their “jewel in the ukok industrial crown” North Sea oil and gas.

      Plus the twerps didn’t publish the sales drop of their own shite paper in Scotland either today. Funny that. Quite an eye opener this Scottish democracy.

    273. crazycat says:

      Sorry, Robert – your 12.54 post appeared while I was typing mine and I didn’t see it till after I’d submitted.

      You’re exactly right, and put it much better than I did.

    274. heedtracker says:

      Yes they did! Wont be buying from these cowboys ever again.

      The Guardian managed 9,621 while The Independent (2,680) and Financial Times (2,200) brought up the Scottish circulation rear.

    275. TheGreatBaldo says:

      Let’s not kid ourselves that’s a bad set of polling numbers for YES.

      I suspect it will be the first in a run of bad polls over the next week or so but that by the time of the next debate they will be back to where they were at the start of the week.

      The ‘manifesto commitment’ to NO CU by the Unionists will probably start to offset of a debate bounce.

      The good thing is that it will encourage the Unionists gloating glands all of them predicting the imminent political death of Salmond.

      They seem to have overlooked the fact if they can get a huge poll boost from a debate win then so can YES and there are 3 debates to go all of which are far closer to the end of the campaign.

      A bad night but it was kind of expected after Eck failed to meet expectations on Tuesday night.

    276. heedtracker says:

      A bad night but it was kind of expected after Eck failed to meet expectations on Tuesday night.

      Is it even remotely feasible that what youve decided a bad night, changes the course of Scottish history? No it doesnt. All polls will get worse and worse week by week because polls are a big part of bettertogether’s campaign.

    277. goldenayr says:


      Just been through the stats.

      Two things leapt out.

      The amount of SNP voters at the last election in the second poll especially.

      And the fact they never asked about someone else fronting BT.

      The SNP voting thing we can put down to the fact they’ve now identified the few who used them as a protest vote in the last election.

    278. goldenayr says:


      Whit? I’m not SNP but in no way did he not fail to deliver.

    279. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 9 August, 2014 at 1:04 am:

      “The Guardian managed 9,621 while The Independent (2,680) and Financial Times (2,200) brought up the Scottish circulation rear.”

      Were those figures for the hour, day, week, month or year, heedtracker?


    280. Training Day says:

      Really disappointed that some people on here are discussing Daily Mail poll results as if they are in any way objective, in any way reflective of the current situation, or in any way designed not to nakedly support the BT narrative of the last few days.

    281. Faltdubh says:

      Looking quickly at those post-debate poll results from Survation that Lesley-Anne posted up are interesting.

      TBH, look at certain areas I don’t see much change – Borders/South = strong no.

      Where I wonder is Glasgow. Glasgow has always been close come these polls, maybe not been in the lead, but if you look at NE Scotland (only 7 votes from 60 to 67 and using this tiny sample) has always been similar or if not, with a Yes lead as the last poll showed.


      This poll has Glasgow 38 votes yes, 63 no which adds to Yes 30.5%, No 49.7%.

      Haha – there is absolultey no way that it is that clear a lead there.

      Maybe in the Borders, Lothians, Aberdeen City maybe even the Perthshire at a push, but Glasgow, nope.

      Glasgow will vote yes!

      So will Dundee.

      I’m a few beers down, and not good at maths, but this 19% difference in Glasgow, surely this has something to do with the 3% yes vote the No vote gained from the last poll?

      Anyhoos, forward my uncoherent ramblings to James Kelly/Scot Goes Pop – I bet he can make up the numbers.

      The main thing we must remember from this poll is (that it’s a 4% gain for yes, yet 3% came from Yes side, 1% from Undecided).

      MMMMMM I dunno, it doesn’t add up somehow.

    282. Lesley-Anne says:

      If I’m not mistaken, probably am actually 😉 , I thought that Survation was one of those polling companies who used telephone polling to get their *ahem* results. If I am right here then it is very clear to me that Survation ‘fixed’ their second poll from the results of the first poll to ensure that they got the desired results for the Daily Mail. (spit)

      The other thing goldenayr is as I said earlier tonight in that polling companies do not do their weighting processes accurately, in my view. They use the voting intentions of 2010/2011 elections to work out their weighting for their referendum polls. Unfortunately for the pollsters there are a great many Labour, around 30% members apparently, Tory and LibDem voters who are actually voting YES. (I left out the SNP and Greens for obvious reasons 😛 )

      There has never been a referendum before like this so the pollsters have no way of using a previous ‘experience’ to help figure out their polling results.

    283. goldenayr says:

      Stay with the returns on the doorsteps folks.

      BT are cacking themselves about them,they need the MSM ones to boost morale.

    284. Faltdubh says:


      Poll after poll has had Fife, and Mid-Central (sometimes they are bummed together) as voting Yes.

      I’m not one for bias, but the Glasgow results (an easy reachable area) especially considering the diversity of the city, “let’s call many in Larkhall guage public opinion” and not Partick, Maryhill etc.

      Suppose we’ll never know as it’s just ‘Glasgow’

      We are going to win though. Do you know why? Because most people WANT to vote yes. None of them (or a smal few do) believe in Darling, and maybe equally numbers don’t like Salmond either, but most of them do believe in Scotland.

      We are going to win!

    285. Defo says:

      I had a look in Andy Puddicombes Headspace.
      A charlatan snake oil salesman looked back.
      Monetising the angst of Modern Britain.

    286. Faltdubh says:

      Check the Glasgow scores on the post-debate poll

      Yes 30% No 60%

      There’s no way it is that! Every other poll has shown this. Maybe these type scores are viable in the Borders or Lothains, but Glasgow no chance.

      Hopefully Scotgoespop is on this come Sunday when he’s back.

    287. heedtracker says:

      @ goldenayr, do you mean as a debater or the proposition of currency union but not stating out loud plan B etc?

      England hold all the answers to the big questions, currency, EU, alien invasions, but ofcourse they are using the answers to make sure they are never asked the questions, if that makes sense.

      We are being defrauded of a Scottish socially democratic future by the same elite crew that think they own Scotland but they can’t yet run their UK. Well, do they own Scotland?

      Its a clear choice.

      Ofcourse Scotland can and should be a nation state but how come Darling couldn’t even admit what he’s said himself and yet still Flipper’s called the winner.

      Its all just ukok fraud.

    288. Faltdubh says:

      Oppsy Too fast with the keypad!!!!!!

      Glasgow is not 60, but 50.

      Anyhoos like I said there’s no way Yes is 30 and No is 50 in Glasgow.

    289. goldenayr says:


      Agree,that’s why I posted the link.It’s definitely not accurate but would be if those polled were genuinely new to being asked their opinion.

      To much reliance on previous answering is why polling companies and the worlds only sephologist are going to be left looking utter …

    290. Training Day says:


      Correct. Canvassing returns in Yoker, Scotstoun and Anniesland are showing Yes well ahead. The Idea that less than a third are voting Yes in Glasgow is risible.

      Glasgow will vote Yes.

    291. Lesley-Anne says:

      Oh I forgot about him goldenayr. Roll on the Sunday political programmes he’ll never be off the screen. ARGHH! Oh wait a minute I never watch these London centric programmes, even those allegedly about Scottish politics. 😛

    292. goldenayr says:


      You doin a me and getting angry wi the bevvy?

      Lighten up bud,we’re winning.The message is getting through.

      Get tanked,work out the anguish and battle fatigue.Tomorrow’s another day and we’re no deid yet.

    293. goldenayr says:

      Aye,aw richt Zebidee,ah’m comin.

      Oichde mhath folks.

      And for the chookies,we foxes hae bigger maws than your nightmares.

    294. Arel says:

      Are we really honestly surprised that a poll commissioned by the vitriolic anti-Scotland/Salmond/SNP/Yes campaign Daily Mail would show anything other than a massive drop for Yes after Tuesday’s debate.
      It was the first of the MSM rags to commission at great haste a poll after the CG that unsurprsingly showed that Yes had received no bounce after the Scotland Team’s outstanding achievements. And here it is again the first to crow that Yes support is dropping like a stone after a media shitfest against Salmond.
      The outcome of that poll comes as much as a surprise as being pricked on the hand from stroking a porcupine.

    295. Morag says:

      Survation are an online panel poll. The data tables Lesley posted were dated 1st August so they don’t relate to the poll we’re hearing about tonight.

      The tables Lesley posted seem to be the source of the self-congratulatory posts about Yes being ahead in the south, and in the north-east and one or two other regions. That was true, but the subsample numbers were tiny, really so small as to be random. And the downside of it was that the results for the west and for Fife were absolutely terrible.

      There’s something a bit weird going on here, but cherry-picking the good bits from tiny subsamples and ignoring the bad bits isn’t the way to figure it out.

      Yes posters and cars are all over the place. I seldom see a No poster or car, even in the Borders. Everyone is talking about people moving to Yes, and I don’t think they’re lying. Canvass returns seem generally good even if we consider the caveats that good areas get reported while bad ones don’t, and sometimes people will tell the canvasser what they want to hear. No canvassers never boast about their great results. Every open online poll has Yes up in the 80s or 90s. Yes has many thousands of keen activists, No are paying English students to leaflet for them.

      Yes are ahead by every metric there is, except the opinion polls and the betting odds. Is the subjective look and feel of the country all wrong? Sure, the real split isn’t going to be as one-sided as the window posters, but even so. It defies common sense.

      We know how the betting odds can be shifted. The No campaign has plenty of money. And if they’re successful they’ll get it back anyway.

      The biggest puzzle is why all the canvassing and windae-watching and so on says there is a movement to Yes, but the polls aren’t showing that. Is is really seriously possible that multiple polling companies are deliberately cherry-picking who they poll to achieve No-friendly results? I probably need a new tinfoil hat on that one, except several people have reported odd experiences that suggest it might actually be happening.

      I don’t know. I’m rambling. Night, all.

    296. thedogphilosopher says:

      @ Icyspark 7.33
      VERY VERY GOOD DOC ON MEDIA BIAS!! Thanks for that …

      I watched Dan Snow being interviewed last night and the whole thing came across as hollow and contrived. He was ‘acting’ sincerity. In fact it bordered on the farcical. At one point he made a gesture which reminded me of Kilroy-Silk’s famous ‘to share, or to shaft’ moment, oft shown on HIGNFY. Hysterical.

      At the moment we’re living in the eye of a storm and it’s a great place to be. Yeah, the media are biased and it will get worse. The pollsters will do their best to dampen spirits across the board. The Unionists will become more animated and desperate. BECAUSE THEY ARE LOSING THE ARGUMENT.

      No matter what the outcome on the 18th, we are winning the intellectual, political, economic and moral debates. I only wish my Dad, who died a few years ago, was alive to experience this moment. He had been a lifelong supporter of the independence cause way back to the early days when the nationalist movement was treated with mockery and contempt.

      He also believed that the political soul of the movement should come from the democratic left taking its cue from the likes of Keir Hardie and John McLean. He would be proud of the fact that many on the (true) left of politics now view the Westminster system as being hostile and neglectful to the needs of Scotland.

      I wish he were here to experience the storm.

    297. Chic McGregor says:

      Didn’t Dana Anti-national win some kind of song contest? Or was it thong contest? Bugger old age and the memory thing.

    298. Dan Lee says:

      I’ve been using Twitter as a battlefield and honestly people refuse to listen to common sense. Some whalloper who quite obviously knocks his heid against a wall on a daily basis. Its like they are happy to be lied to.

      Amusing thing is, some guy was mentioning how well we have done in the union. My response was for him to tell that to the 35,000 families forced to beg at food banks.

      No response for a few hours, don’t know why -.-

    299. TheGreatBaldo says:

      Is it even remotely feasible that what youve decided a bad night, changes the course of Scottish history?

      Chill head tracker min !!….3 days of wall to wall Darlings triumph and the Plan B nonsense have almost certainly fanned their numbers this time round.

      As I said it’s the final debates not the first one that people will remember in the Polling Booth.

      Eck could never have won the expectations battle on Tuesday, even McTernan was predicting a Salmond win pre match.

      If Eck had thrashed Darling on Tuesday by say 75-25, but in the 2nd debate had only beaten him say 60-40 then all the media would run with ‘YES vote loses steam’…

      No are bigging up their lead right now, they are going to look pretty foolish and be lacking momentum in the final 3 weeks if Eck takes the 2nd debate.

    300. P.R.D. says:

      Has the YES campaign painted itself too far into the left wing of politics thus alienating potential YES voters by defining itself against liberal and centre right politics.

      The objective is Scots independence not crypto-political point scoring within the British political context.

    301. Lesley-Anne says:

      I posted two sets of tables Morag, I’m not nit picking … honest 😉 .

      The first set of tables were from fieldwork was carried out between the 6th and 7th of August.

      The second set of tables were from fieldwork was carried out between 30th July and 1st August. It was this swet that the results jumped out at us and said H&I, NE Scotland, Glasgow and D&G were ahead in YES. That said I don’t think even when we saw these figures we were actually surprised. As you and others constantly point out the results on the stalls, in the streets, on the canvassing etc are completely different. THAT is what I believe, all this poll bashing is just a wee bit of *ahem* light relief. 😛

      We all know that YES are AHEAD and they are WELL AHEAD of NO. The fact that the pollsters are doing their MSM masters bidding to produce the necessary results just proves that we have NO on the run. NO are petrified. They have used up all their ammunition. They have nothing left. NO are at OUR mercy now. We can now start to ramp up the firepower and really get stuck in about the NO camp and their lies. Not only CAN we win it is a case of we WILL win. 😀

      Keep the faith folks.

    302. Dal Riata says:

      Polls-schmolls. To hell with any of these ‘UK-based’ polling organisations. These are companies led by people with ‘vested interests’, of which maintaining the union is central.

      All these polls always showing No well in the lead purportedly done in a fair, unbiased and non-judgemental manner…? Aye, right! As scrupulously fair and unbiased and non-judgemental as the UK’s MSM, then.

      It’s all part of the BTNoThanksU-KOK dirty tricks strategy ably conducted by the British State’s secret services – allegedly. This is the existence of the British State under severe threat. The modus operandi of the secret services is the protection of the State at all times over any other matter, after all. Democracy doesn’t enter into it.

      Be aware. But try not to get paranoid about it all – at least not *too* much!

    303. Democracy Reborn says:

      Great opinion polling of our time….

      1970 GE : Labour ahead by up to 12.4%. Result : Tories win by 3.4%

      1992 GE : Labour/Tories neck & neck, Labour fractionally ahead. Result : Tories win by 7.6%

      2011 Scot Parl election…… well, we all know how that turned out

      2012 US Pres Election : at least 19 out of 23 pollsters showed Romney victory. Result : second term for Obama

      Let’s be honest, if we got a better poll tonight we’d be uplifted & crowing about it. But I’m now past the stage where it bothers me if we don’t. There is a complete disconnect between what the polls say and what people’s experiences are on the ground, canvassing returns & on social media. Read James Kelly’s blog on Scot Goes Pop for the methodological ‘changes’ that have taken place over the campaign by some pollsters. Mostly, they have benefited No (eg adjustment for a so-called ‘shy No’ factor). I’m certainly no expert but from reading James’ blog most days, the pollsters seem to be treating this almost like a GE. Given the reported behaviour of Isos-Mori before and during the debate, including their selection of the audience members, how can anyone treat their polls seriously?

      Like caz-m pointed out already, are Survation really saying that after a successful CW Games, the feel good factor, the increased interest & awareness that we’ve all experienced from new Yes supporters, the complete lack of a grassroots BT presence, that there has been a 4% increase for No? Did I not read posts on here today that separate polls were showing Yes to be now in the lead in H&I, NE Scotland, Glasgow & South Scotland? In fact, was the Glasgow poll not by Survation?

      We’re on the home straight folks & we’re only beginning to see the full might of the British Establishment & MSM being unleashed upon us, aided & abetted by questionable national polls. We should take all that as a compliment – and also that they are VERY nervous about the outcome. I think it’s possible we might see a poll or two with a narrow gap, but I doubt whether we’ll see one with Yes in the lead. Trust your instincts & what you see/ hear every day in real life – and not what the MSM are telling us to think.

      We can win this.

    304. Morag says:

      Lesley, sorry I didn’t see that you’d posted the new set of tables as well. But the rest of what I said still stands.

      Democracy Reborn, all of you, you need to wind your necks in about these regional figures. They are from Survation, but they’re not proper polls. They’re only subsets of the earlier poll Lesley linked to. The numbers are so small they’re meaningless. And be glad of that too, because the equivalent numbers for the regions people aren’t tweeting about are absolutely terrible. It’s just statistical noise. Or is No actually on 60% in Fife?

      Either these polls are fiddled or they’re not, but cherry-picking penny numbers looking for isolated talking points isn’t the way to go about it.

    305. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      @Democracy Reborn

      The most intriguing thing about the ‘shy No’ methodological changes is that I’ve seen pretty damn convincing analysis that they have it 100% wrong and should be adjusting for ‘shy Yes’. The reason I find it so convincing is that it (and how some pollsters are weighting based on past vote recall) explains some of the very strange polling errors not just for 2011 but for 2010, 2007 and back even further than that.

    306. Democracy Reborn says:


      My neck wasn’t unwound in the first place.

      Point taken re the reliability of the small regional subsets.

      I’ll stand by the rest of my comments though. There is clearly still a lot of hard work to be done – which is why I said we “can” win this.

      @Iain Gray’s Subway Lament

      Agree with you, particularly re pollsters ‘weighting’ results based on past vote recall. On a related point, was reading a summary of the British Election Survey for the 1992 election & why the pollsters got it spectacularly wrong. One of the main reasons was that they were compiling poll results based on past party ID. The problem was that party ID for Labour voters in the 80s & early 90s became far less intense due to Labour’s internal civil war & the rise of the SDP. They were more prepared than previously to switch to the Tories. Parallels for today? : In 2007 & certainly in 2011, a significant number of Labour voters switched to SNP. And they are supporting Yes in increasing numbers.

    307. Mary Bruce says:

      Agree that this poll is looking a bit random, the yes vote in Glasgow has dropped from 41% yes to 30% yes in a week? The No vote in Glasgow has gone from 38% to 49% in a week? No chance.

      The 16 to 24 year old age group has dropped from 37% yes to 23% yes in a week? The no vote in the 16-25 year old age group has gone up 150% in a week from 23% to 57%?

      The SNP no vote has increased by 9% in a week?

      Really? We are supposed to take this seriously? Gies a break. Don’t think even the no voters would believe this. No wonder all the No Thanks mob were tweeting no complacency all evening.

      The only thing I believe is the South percentage, last week it showed yes in the lead, don’t believe it down here. I’m hoping for 40% in Dumfries & Galloway, that is what we got in 1979 so good enough for me.

    308. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Mary Bruce

      Mary, I haven’t looked at the raw data but if your analysis is correct, I find the numbers (paticularly for Glasgow) utterly laughable.

    309. Much reference here to the latest Survation poll. Let not your heart be too troubled, for all is not as it may seem.

      As briefly as possible:

      This surge in NO is being touted as a product of Darling routing Salmond in that debate. It isn’t. The raw data flatly contradict the carnival barking of BT and DM.

      First, well over a third of the sample population didn’t watch the debate at all. The number of avowed NO voters outstrips those advocating YES, by an unseemly margin.

      And most importantly as it relates to the critical cohort of undecided, (the poling subgroup who are DK and watched the debate) comprises a weighted value of just 61 souls.

      Of that meager 61, 33 did NOT agree that Darling had won the debate. The majority thought either salmond had won or that they could discern no winner.

      More here:

    310. Jon in Chicago says:

      @ Democracy Reborn (2:07 a.m.):

      A caveat about polling in our 2012 presidential election: There are two levels of polls — national and state-by-state. If my memory serves correctly, the last time the national polls were close was right after the first presidential debate, when President Obama under-performed and failed to call out Mitt Romney’s lies, while Romney over-performed vis-a-vis the expectations for him. (Hmm…)

      The national polls reverted back to a solid Obama lead after the vice presidential debate in which VP Joe Biden owned Rep. Paul Ryan (ignore him, too, if his name shows up on that resolution) and the subsequent presidential debate in which Obama pwned Romney in the famous “Please proceed, Governor” moment. After that, the national polls were never again close to a tie or a Romney lead.

      But national electoral polls in presidential elections are meaningless here. The state-by-state polls are what really matter because presidents are indirectly elected state-by-state via the Electoral College. As a voter in Illinois, my votes for President Obama in 2012 and 2008 were actually votes for my state’s Obama-pledged “electors.” And those who tracked state-by-state polls through the 2012 election knew that Romney was never going to be president.

      Thinking back to the 2008 Obama campaign (for which I was a volunteer), there were plenty of “OMG! Oh noez!” moments amongst Obama supporters from the primary and caucus contests through October, yet through it all Obama himself kept a cool head and kept everyone focused on the ultimate goal. Toward the end of that campaign, we could see it as more and more Obama bumper stickers, shirts, caps, pins appeared on the streets, and in the warm greetings from those whose doorbells we rang. We could feel it. We weren’t going to lose.

      Given what I’ve read here, at Wee Ginger Dug, Bella, Newsnet and Scott Goes POP!, I’d very much trust what you’re seeing and experiencing on the ground.

    311. Democracy Reborn says:

      @Jon in Chicago

      Thanks Jon for clarifying the US polling. I think what I was trying to say was that there were various national polls in 2012 which were favourable for Romney. But even over here we were aware from the coverage that it wasn’t going to hinge on the national numbers, but the crucial swing states like Ohio in order to get a majority in the electoral college. And in any event, Obama won the national vote.

      I was actually in the States at the time of the 2008 primaries. My overriding impression was that Obama had galvanised an incredible grassroot campaign which helped propel him to victory. As you say, let’s hope (despite what the polls may say) we can do the same here.

    312. khambatta says:

      Besides the 35 or so titles you see in the list, I started counting how many were the offspring of people with titles, but alas, I got bored. Dalrymple’s one I missed out; he’s the son of Sir Hew Hamilton-Dalrymple (10th Baronet, Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order, former Lord Lieutenant of East Lothian).

      It would be interesting to work out just how much acreage of Scotland this shower possess.

    313. Jon in Chicago says:

      @ Democracy Reborn (4:43 a.m.):

      Gotcha, and glad you were here to see some of the 2008 campaign. Your impression of what happened here was spot-on. I’d never seen anything like that here before, and don’t expect to again. My wife and I were with friends in Grant Park (downtown Chicago’s lakefront) on election night, among tens of thousands of people — you just don’t see that in U.S. elections. Despite all that has happened since, that night was a never-to-be-forgotten moment in my life.

      From the middle of North America, it seems to me that if you guys get out the Vote (GOTV is the acronym you’ll see all over progressive blogs like Daily Kos, or this year, GOTMFV…), you’ll win.

      By the way, it’s not yet 11 p.m. here; what the *&^W@ are you doing online at almost 5 a.m.? ;>)

    314. Jon in Chicago says:

      @ khambatta (4:44 a.m.):

      I think you missed a few more:
      Vivian Smith-Smythe-Smith (has an O-level in chemo-hygiene);
      Simon-Zinc-Trumpet-Harris (married to a very attractive table lamp);
      Nigel Incubator-Jones (best friend is a tree, and in his spare time is a stockbroker);
      Gervaise Brook-Hamster (is in the Guards, father uses him as a wastepaper basket);
      Oliver St. John-Mollusc, Harrow and the Guards.

    315. Ken500 says:

      Who are these people?

    316. ronnie anderson says:

      alls well in Graystone ,dull dank day but lovely countryside,and if you,s don’t know where graystone is ask Thepnr.we’re looking forward to seeing a lot of Wingers from the Northern Regions, so if you,s can make the Seafest come along & see us.

    317. ronnie anderson says:

      Patrician & Gerry P, We will set up in the fenced up area where the Fair is, the Harbour area wasn’t suitable.

    318. Ken500 says:

      Obama has low poll rating in the US. Some Washington Politicans ar trying to Impeach him.
      10% of US voters are of Dcottish descent (diaspora), enough to swing an US election. Any US Pesident will be keeping quiet or supporting a democratic Independent Scotland.

      435 representatives shows what small gov US administration. 300million people. 52States average overall 5+million people. Like Scotland. Local administration – lowering raising of taxes. A confederation of States. House of Representstive 100 – 2 members from each State. Elected every two years? US has a parallel election system. Two political Parties with similar policies. US is run by Interest groups, Unions/business. Lobbyists. (corruption) US ‘right to self detrrmination’

      EU 400million people. No tax raising powers. An agreed contribution. Aims for equality. EU ‘right to self determination’. Internation Law.

    319. Ken500 says:

      Other fish to fry.

      Salmond & Co will be in Inverurie. Commonwealth Games celebrations. Hanna etc. Smiley celebrations. : – ) Scotland won the Commonwealth Games.

    320. Ken500 says:

      ‘Right to self determination’ under International Law.

    321. Ken500 says:

      Dan Snow is married (secretly) to Edwina, daughter of the Duke of Westminster (£7Billion) the largest landowner in Britain. They have a child. A Close relationship wtth the Royal family. Spokesperson? Inheritance, tax, environment and landowning issues. All in it together.

    322. Ken500 says:

      Salmond is Maj’s favourite politician. Best friends

    323. Achnababan says:

      I am no expert on polling ,but I have done some general survey work in my academic days and it always struck me odd that no-one actually reported how many people were contacted but ‘for some reason’ their answers were not used.

      Cherry picking becomes easy if they is no obligation to report total number contacted as well as total used in the survey.

      This must especially be an issue when the pollsters use quota based sampling as they then have an excuse for not using you – e.g. we are not using your answer because you are not the right age rather than because you are a Yes voter

      Any thoughts from the experts?

    324. Ken500 says:

      Peter Snow, complacency, father-in-law of the daughter of the richest man in Britain. ‘Young people are different these days, they don’t bother about pensions etc. My son and his partner don’t plan ahead, they don’t bother about pensions.’?

      Liverpool (family seat) etc have food banks.

    325. Off topic , but good cartoon above.

      We need to push the message that WE are offering to help rUK rather than them dictating the terms. Voters need to realise that WE are in the driving seat after a YES vote and not the other way about. That will boost confidence among the undecided. 😀

    326. Grouse Beater says:

      What the giggle of third-rate, pretendy Yankie politicians are saying is, “It’s our Trident, dude, and it stays!”

    327. donald anderson says:

      It may be worth reminding folks that Inverurie is where a Jacobite Lowland force defeated a Highland Hanoverian force and that “Loyal” Highland clans were treated the same as “Rebel” Highland clans. Al suffered proscription and rapine, plus the Clearances. Lords Chelmsford and Lord Newcastle wanted to kill or deport all Highland males and sterilise the remaining females. There was no need as the Jackboots had done such a thorough job.

      North Brits take note of the consequences of a No vote and how much your efforts will be appreciated. Nobody likes a snitch.

    328. Dorothy Devine says:

      ” We can win this.” I just love that wee sentence.

      Jon in Chicago , thank you for those encouraging words and was that an invitation to invade Chicago en masse??

    329. Croompenstein says:

      @donald –

      North Brits take note of the consequences of a No vote and how much your efforts will be appreciated. Nobody likes a snitch

      Spot on donald the imperialists don’t give a monkeys for their little helpers and the sad thing is they can’t see it.

    330. donald anderson says:


      I should have added a few clan chiefs and Noble Lords were rewarded. One chief, Ludovik Grant, ordered his Jacobite clansmen to muster after Culloden and had them surrounded by red coats and shipped off in the colonies as slaves. Don’t know if Yohann will be of any further use after Independence, but she is contributing to keeping the Scots underclass as latter day serfs. Incidentally Grants Distillers, who contribute so much of Scotland’s wealth to the London treasury, are part of BT. Will they move their distilleries to Engerland? They would if they could.

      The Earl of Mar led the 1715 Jacobite Rebellion against the Parliamentary but not Regal, Union of 1707, complained he did not get enough bribes. Red John Glass, a Campbell, who faced him at Sherramuir, led the Scottish MPS to vote against the Union four years earlier. He was told that the Scots MPs had been bought and sold and laughed at to their faces. Wot has changed, eh?

    331. big jock says:

      I see Milliband wants to put in manifesto that they will not allow currency union.What a totally clueless individual he is.Its one thing bluffing and lying in a campaign.But to actually believe that he can prevent a currency union in the event of yes!London and the bank of England will be begging Salmond for the currency union otherwise they will be deep in the shit.The other thing is he cares so much about Scotland he will deliberately punish them for voting yes.Is this Millibands idea of social justice.What a loony.Does he not realise it will be the civil servants and Whitehall that will be pulling the strings.Just as well as Milliband hasn’t the first clue about international relations and how the financial markets operate.Can I suggest to Salmond that this is how they fight back on this issue.We all know its bull but some people genuinely believe it.Salmond needs to ask the no campaign why they want to punish Scotland after a yes vote if they care so much about us.I have spoken to most people about the idea of Sterling outside formal agreement and no debt.I can tell peoples eyes light up when I mention this.Its a vote winner in the minds of undecideds.Only those geeks like us who understand international lending etc realise it may be a problem with short-term borrowing.However most punters think well if you play hard ball then we are very comfortable leaving RUK with the debts.Salmond needs to push this line even if it seems unreasonable people like it outside politics.

    332. Mrs Grimble says:

      Gods, this thread has grown since last night! I just wanted to reply to PeeGee and others who objected to my use of the term “actor”. For the record, its been used for both men and women in the proffession by actors themselves for many years. So its not a Guardian invention and we’re just catching up.

    333. Jim says:

      They could move their distilleries to England but it wouldn’t be Scottish whisky anymore it would be English Whiskey.

    334. sausage fingered luddite says:

      Cliff now lives in Barbados
      Cliff used to live in Portugal
      Portugal has an extradition treaty with Uk
      Does Barbados?

    335. Chris Murray says:

      I wrote a wee bit about Dana a couple of years ago. He’s a full-on mentalist. Lest that be taken as rude, he doesn’t believe in man-made climate change. As a result, I have a hard time taking anything he says seriously.

    336. JWil says:

      Milband claims he will put his denial of a CU for Scotland into his 2015 election manifesto. Will it be like Cleggs promise on tuition fees in England?

      As soon as there is a YES vote and Milband can claim that circumstances have changed and leave out the item on his manifesto, or when negotiations start he can do the same thing. So the manifesto threat does not change a thing.

      Miliband should realise that the Independence referendum is being scrutinised all over the world and that his reputation and that of the UK government is also being scrutinised.

    337. ticktock says:

      Faltdub 1.23

      You’re not adding up somehow, haven’t the faintest idea what point you’re trying to make.

      Astonished that you (and some others on here) attach ANY significance whatsoever to a “poll” from the Daily “Hurrah For The Blackshirts” Mail. Wtf did you expect, a fecking Yes lead???

    338. P.R.D. says:

      Hypocrisy how some Scots celebrities have loud mouth opinions on the political affairs of other nations but will not call in the indy-ref.

      P.R.D. says Aye Scotland.

    339. Jim says:

      Milband claims he will put his denial of a CU for Scotland into his 2015 election manifesto.
      He said he would rather be 100 billion in extra debt rather than have a currency union with Scotland. Asked if he would baulk at an extra 5 Billion a year debt he said, well, no!.
      This guy is comedy gold, the gift that keeps on giving.

    340. donald anderson says:

      Mrs Grimble
      “I just wanted to reply to PeeGee and others who objected to my use of the term “actor”. For the record, its been used for both men and women in the proffession by actors themselves for many years. So its not a Guardian invention and we’re just catching up.”

      Luvvies. Hams. Pansies?

    341. big jock says:

      Has Millibands actually looked at the UK family budget!They can’t afford to lose any more money.The austerity cuts are continuing to 2018.He then wants to lose more money to spite Scotland.Every Scottish labour party member needs to decide if their loyalties rest in Scotland or they want their country to be theoretically punished for a democratic vote.Its like a father saying to his son sure you leave home but I will make your life as difficult as possible..but hey good luck you know I love you ..but only on my terms not yours.

    342. alastair seago says:

      There’s a programme tonight (9th) called Pointless celebrities.Must be about the letter.

    343. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      Miliband is being precise in his choice of words. A Veto is something that you can choose not to use. It`s only relevance here would be if there’d already been an agreement for a currency union prior to the 2015 GE. In effect he’s threatening to put any negotiations on independence back to square one.

    344. Colin says:

      I haven’t read all of the comments above so excuse me if someone has already pointed this out.
      Hasn’t there been a “Friends of Scotland Caucus” with 30 Senators in it for a while now?
      Do we then beat the 27 against independence, and is America now on our side?

    345. Jon in Chicago says:

      @ Dorothy Devine (9:18 a.m.):

      You’re welcome and I think I can speak for all of us here in Chicago when I say that you’re all very welcome to come on over. United Airlines now has direct Edinburgh-Chicago flights, and we’re much nicer than New Yorkers…

    346. Dr Jim says:

      I want the no’s and the don’t knows to contemplate one thing.’could you be wrong’
      Suppose there is no referendum,it’s an ordinary day in Scotland,and somebody say’s ‘Did you hear what Cameron or Milliband said on the telly, about anything,what would be your answer?’Damn liars, the lot of them’ My point is, why believe them on the pound.
      Because we are used to being told ‘NO’it becomes a conditioned response to accept fear, we are used to it, we have lived with it so long it’s become daily bread and drink for us.

      Alex Salmond is jist oot fur ees self’
      How many times have we all heard that,WELL!if the first minister had joined the Labour party as a young man he’d be Lord Salmond of somewhere by now, lauded for his great contribution to the party,and sitting wrapped in his flowing ermine robes by now. So what’s in it for Alex? MONEY? nah,can’t be that,FAME and ADULATION? well nah,so what?
      Funnily i think i know, but you! dear undecide’s and no’s
      must make a choice as to who do you think might have genuine motives for the improvement and advancement of our country, and remember! it is our country.

    347. Rock says:

      Mary Bruce,

      “Agree that this poll is looking a bit random, the yes vote in Glasgow has dropped from 41% yes to 30% yes in a week?”

      Immediately after hosting the most successful Commonwealth Games ever!

      These polls are just preparing the ground for rigging the result of the referendum.

    348. angelswithdirtyfaces says:

      I see Sting signed the ‘love-bomb’ letter. That’ll be the Sting who wrote “If you love somebody set them free”

    349. Stevie says:

      What’s an Andy Puddicombe

    350. J. R. Tomlin says:

      It was minor but still thoroughly embarrassing to any knowledgeable American. I had a word or two on the subject to my representatives in the House.

    351. Ken500 says:

      US preamble Founding Fsthers (some Scottish)

    352. Ken500 says:

      Scottish Enlightenment

    353. Ken500 says:

      Scottish philosophers and Arbroath Declaration 1314.

    354. Ken500 says:

      Contributed to US Declarstion of Independence

    355. Ken500 says:

      Scots helped America get it’s Independence. Now is the time for Americans to return the favour.

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