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The end of everything

Posted on October 10, 2018 by

We knew this would be a fast-moving phenomenon when we created it, but we’re only just beginning to realise the magnitude of the rod we’ve made for our own backs. Because the supply of rock-headed clownshows sucking up taxpayers’ money on the opposition benches at Holyrood appear to be effectively infinite.

There’s only actually one “l” in “intolerable”, but that’s still the intellectual high point of the tweet. It really is hard to adequately convey what a brainless piece of idiocy this is without just swearing for a solid hour, but we’ll try.

A bridge is operational when you can drive across it without falling into the water. If a piece of infrastructure isn’t “finished” until no work is taking place on it or will take place on it in future, then NOTHING has EVER been finished, nor ever will be, until mankind is extinct and the planet itself is swallowed up by the flames of the dying Sun.

The M8 motorway was opened to traffic in 1965, but still has regular lane closures for maintenance work. It also had a brand new “final” section opened just last year. Is it, then, “not finished”? Should it have been kept closed for the last 53 years because the Newhouse to Baillieston stretch wasn’t ready?

Only Earth’s most spectacular moron would attempt to make that argument, and when we asked him, even HE said he was embarrassed for Alex Cole-Hamilton.

Ladies and gentlemen, once again, please salute the new champion.

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    1. 10 10 18 12:56

      The end of everything | speymouth

    405 to “The end of everything”

    1. Auld Rock says:

      Stu, Cole-Hamilton is a Force 12 MORON. We all know this.

    2. MajorBloodnok says:

      I tweeted him to point out that they still haven’t finished painting the Forth (Rail) Bridge, so that’s probably all the SNP’s fault as well.

    3. Macart says:

      Heh. That’s another beaut. 😀 LOL

    4. Greannach says:

      Sturgeon must resign. They are still painting and maintaining the Forth Rail Bridge. When is it going to be finished? Shame on SNP government.

    5. James Mills says:

      My money is still on champion Annie Wells to top this before her next subsidised lunch at Holyrood .( If she can find the cafeteria ! )

    6. HandandShrimp says:

      I don’t think Alex Double-Barrel is thick. Unlike Wells and Green he is quite aware of what he is doing and is just a really unpleasant, duplicitous politician in the worst possible sense of the word politician.

      Quite how he ended up in the Lib Dems is anyone’s guess. There are Tories to the the left of him and a fair number of those are a lot more personable.

      As I have said before, by Double-Barrel’s criteria the Forth Rail Bridge has, despite being a 130 years old, never been finished.

      I crossed the Queensferry Crossing a couple of months ago and it looked perfectly functional to me. If Double Barrel wants to cross using both lanes in a spectacularly wide vehicle at 2am in the morning then I can see his dilemma. If not he is just a whine looking for ear to annoy.

    7. Old Pete says:

      Liberal Democrats are there any with half a brain in office in Scotland, I don’t think so ?

    8. D.ap.D says:

      Dear me. Before gobbing off about stuff, it makes sense to find out something about the subject. Like with any construction work, there is a commissioning, hand-over and defects notification ((DNP). DNP can be between 12 months and 5 years, depending on if it’s structural, mechanical or electrical.
      But if we let people like this spout rubbish, they only embarrass themselves. I do however get sick of correcting people, so tend to just smile these days.

    9. fryinberry says:

      I think the key phrase he uses is “who use this crossing every day”, his constituents must be quite pleased then?
      A fud of the highest order, next?

    10. Cubby says:

      Is this guy really that thick or does he just think that the people who voted for him must be that thick that they would believe this SNP baaad nonsense.

    11. Dr Jim says:

      Does that mean ACH never repairs the guttering on his house or repaints the shed or puts up new wallpaper in the living room because the old stuff’s done because the house was finished when he bought it

      Does this mean we’ll see a case against Wimpeys for ACH house needing maintenance, does ACH get his car MOTd every year or does he just wait till he crashes then blame Nissan because it was finished when he bought it

      I bet there are just endless examples of the miniscule size of ACHs brain

    12. Jamie Stewart says:

      This is like some sort of grotesque arena battle…

    13. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Predictable nonsense from a man who’s never been near a mechanical-construction project in his life.

    14. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I sometimes wish the Rev Stuart would cease pointing-out the absurdities of the pronouncements and press releases of the likes of Cole-Hamilton, Wells, Tomkins, Carlaw, WATP Fraser, Leonard and the rest of the Yoonisphere loonies at Holyrood.

      Then, I stop and think, no, let them get on with it – keep pointing-out and drawing attention to their absurdities.

      When, in the near-future, Scotland becomes Independent again, I hope the Scottish Government strikes medals for those doughty fighters who made it all possible, and remembers the reamarkable work done in this cause by Cole-Hamilton and his friends on the opposition seats at Holyrood.

      They are Independence’s best recruiting officers.

    15. Ken500 says:

      Pass the dunce hat around, getting like the depths of intolerance. Totally intolerable. The unionists comments zogged on another planet. Totally out of touch with reality showing their useless ignorance. The message should be checked before they are sent for other people’s sanity. This is the norm of representation insulting people’s intelligence and infuriating people. Give the twits a rest please to gies folk peace. Unionists inadequate not thinking before they message should havevthe messages checked. People are paying over £100,000 for useless reps to annoy them with their idiocy. It is just not right.

      Some football ‘fans’ a few thousand are ruining the industry with their sectarianism, bigotry and racism. Intolerant comments. Unexceptable threats of violence. Ruining the game and fair play. The Clubs run by peodophiles, racist and bigots. Many self respecting people would never get involved, especially with their children, in any way shape or form. A threatening environment. Destroying their own industry and community. The threatening rhetoric, claimed to be the representational of others. Not harmless banter. A plague on Scottish society and community. Sport which could have been a force for good example.

      No wonder the terraces are empty.

    16. Camy says:

      You realise that you’re going to have to set up some kind of league table so we can keep track of the highs & lows

    17. Dr Jim says:

      Alex Cole Hamilton and his ilk constantly repeat this kind of drivel with regularity in the hope of convincing the (let’s call them less deep thinkers) there are problems with the Baad SNP that there aren’t

      Even I have a problem with ACH being this stupid, and if he’s not then he’s exactly what our First Minister accuses him of being, an opportunistic serial misleader

      In my words *a liar*

    18. Frank Gillougley says:

      Save energy.

    19. ClanDonald says:

      Last week Alex Cole Hamilton was sneering at the SNP because his new pass for Holyrood said “made in Great Britain” on it. Very odd considering that he’s too ashamed to admit that he’s a member of the British Lib Dem’s, but instead pretends that he belongs to an imaginary party called the “Scottish” Lib Dem’s.

    20. Ken500 says:

      Not forgetting most beneficial projects all over Scotland would never have been undertaken with the LibDem and unionists objections. Totally useless inadequate. LibDems abd unionists blocked the AWPR for over forty years. One of the best thing to happen for the NE/Scottish economy.

      Ditto the Borders rail line, the new Forth road bridge, the Hydro,the Glasgow Hospital the Turbines, the sports development road developments etc, etc. All undertaken by SNP enterprise which would have been blocked by LibDem abd unionists. A load of total hypocrites. Wasting money like their is no tomorrow on rubbish. They are not fit to scavenge a tip. The latest Tory enterprise. It just could not be made up.

      The only succesful project the LibDems could organise while blocking the essential road for over ten years. Blocked for over forty years by the unionists. A sleeping carriage so the MP could go overnight to London.

      The hypocrisy of Jardine, Cable, Clegg,Swindon, thon other strange one. Ex ‘leader’.Putting massive student on young people. Supporting Tory austerity. Enabling it. For an AV Ref they thought would give them advantage. Rejected out of hand by the electorate sick of their betrayal and lies. Lie, after lie, after lie about anything and the Bridge. An obsession of incompetence and electoral fraud.

      What are the LibDem good for? Absolutely nothing. The inertia of nothingness. Pathetic. How can people vote for them. It is a mystery. They must have short memories. Ditto the rest of the unionist Parties. Dark money crooks. Criminals and liars. The LibDem caused Brexit. Facilitated the EU Ref. Now howling the most about it. Get real or go. Simpletons, They are a farce of intolerance. Destroying the £ and the economy. Folk are sick of them blethering complete and utter nonsense.

    21. Gary45% says:

      Lib-Dumb. Says it all really.
      Expect wee Wullie to spout this deranged pish at FMQs this week. Remember 60+K for being totally clueless.

    22. Corrado Mella says:

      An unfinished bridge? You mean like this one near London on the M23?

    23. David Martin says:

      And we’ve not even got to Murdo yet.

    24. Dan Huil says:

      Alex Cole-Hamilton is just another brainless britnat always on the lookout to do down Scotland. Tractor.

    25. Dave M says:

      Intollerable – a bridge with no toll.

    26. starlaw says:

      Mr R S Hole-Hamilton seems to know more about this bridge than he does about events in Corstorphine, where is interest should be.

    27. I’m currently commuting every day over this offending piece of infrastructure from West Lothian to Fife and back.

      It’s terrible being able to get to my work with no delays, no wind closures and no baddoom, baddoom, baddoom to accompany me.

      I looked the painters and the scaffolding and think “but it’s not finished! SNP bad! I must vote LibDem”.

      This is a true story.

    28. Jeff says:

      Ha ha ha he got to be a Lib Dem MSP and he can’t even fcuking spell!

    29. Ann Rayner says:

      News today that this double barrelled clown has been cleared of breaching election spending rules. He is now complaining about the cost of the enquiry and waste of police time.
      However, the LibDems are not yet in the clear as Christine Jardine is still under investigation about the avalanche of leaflets she bombarded Edinburgh West with, at least 20 separate items in my case, mainly delivered by post or paid distributors, breached spending rules. I don’t accept the argument that some leaflets were not delivered; if they paid for them, that should count towards what they spent.
      The LibDems have form in this area and it is time that they were punished for breaking election rules. Otherwise, we are obviously not living in a democracy as it shows voted can be bought.

    30. Fred says:

      If Annie Wells has difficulty in finding a tearoom (which I doubt?) she only has to follow Murdo Fraser!

    31. G says:

      It’s only “intollerable” under the SNP. There were tolls all over the place under the LabLibs.

    32. G says:

      Which does of course raise the question of what the tolls were used for during the LabLib days, since bridges do not require any sort of maintenance, apparently.

    33. Dan Huil says:

      Aye aye, I hear the DUP is blackmailing May [budget business] again.

      The so-called united kingdom continues to crumble.

    34. Ian MacDonald says:

      I know English can be quite a challenging language, especially for those on the shortlist for this prestigious award, but he’s also managed to say the exact opposite of what he intended by attempting use of the expression ‘under no illusion’.

    35. Capella says:

      But I drove across it only last Saturday on my way to the Independence march. A whole bus load of us did.

      Who are we to believe? A C-H or the evidence of our own lying eyes?

    36. winifred mccartney says:

      You have definitely made a rod for your own back with this one – I doubt if you will be able to keep up with the stupidity of many of our representatives. Many would be far better if they sat and said/did nothing like most of the labour benches. If it were not so serious it would be a good laugh.

    37. Breeks says:

      My vehicle is 18 years old and the useless mechanic still hasn’t finished it yet! He tells me to keep coming back every few months to “finish” the oil and tyres. In fact, I’m pretty sure it had the same fault when it left the showroom. It’s intolerable… in a very tolerable kind of way.

    38. Muscleguy says:

      ‘ falling into the water’

      Evoke Peter Sellers in Bluebottle mode: He hasn’t fallen in the water!

      We were lucky enough to get to walk over the bridge when it was finished and we didn’t fall in the water and were in absolutely, totally and utterly no danger of falling in the water. The wind baffles pretty much put payed to any attempt to do so. It would be much easier to fall in the water from the FRB. Even with the pedestrian/cycle path being in the middle of the Tay Road Bridge people still deliberately fall in the water from it. One unfortunate’s body washed up just down the road from here just recently.

      The ongoing carriageway repairs are carried out outside peak times and are less restrictive than the ignorant who automatically slow to 50 going across it. I seem to be behind one every time I’ve been across. Maybe they are all Mr Cole-Hamilton going slowly to try and find a problem to complain about?

    39. frankieboy180 says:

      Next he’ll be asking where the cushions of Arthur’s Seat are and why have the SNP not completed them in a nice quilted design.

    40. Muscleguy says:

      And in terms of things not being finished the Tay bridge is pretty much permanently shrouded in parts because of ongoing work to keep it in shape. The piers of the first one still sit beside it as a reminder of the folly of poor design, building and maintenance. The endurance of the Mark II bridge for so long though is a testament to the art of learning from mistakes.

      Queensferry is a testament to that process. That it didn’t need a rail deck is a testament to Victorian engineering.

    41. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Oh, Annie Wells got 10 seconds of fame on R4 news today. Apparently we in Scotland are all on anti-depressants these days, and it’s all the SNP’s fault, of course. (Never mind austerity, Brexit, the constitutional guddle etc., etc.)

      So I nominate BBC Radio England as moron promoter of the day.

    42. Dr Jim says:

      @Ian McDonald 1.17pm

      Absolutely correct not only are his scribblings full of grammatical errors they’re full of contradictions to the statements he *thinks* he’s making

      The *not finished* bridge is being used by his constituents every day he says, well then it works doesn’t it, it hasn’t fallen down, there are no broken bits hanging off it

      Let’s all hope the folk who voted for this guy for whatever their reasons begin to realise he’s a reflection on them by voting for him and do they enjoy being represented by someone who has difficulty reading writing and expressing himself coherently

      Are his voters not embarrassed?

    43. yesindyref2 says:

      The bridge is intollerable, bridge tolls were done away with years ago.

    44. Legerwood says:

      It would appear that Mr Cole- Hamilton has a more general problem with the concept of ‘finished/unfinished’ than just its application to bridges.

      This from the Rev’s Twitter

      It is an article from the Herald about ACH and the Electoral Commission and election expenses.

    45. Big Jock says:

      I am extremely disappointed that James Kelly or Oor Wullie Rennie hasn’t made the top 3 yet!

    46. CmonIndy says:

      You can’t outrun the stupidity of Unionist politicians in Scotland. With the exception of Ms Baillie – you could outrun her.

    47. Ken500 says:

      The LibDems must be getting spooked. More leaflets being delivered with the falsified over funding.

      A catalogue of the lies. An insult waste of time and money. Filling up the refuse tip. A blot on the landscape. They also refuse to do anything about. A monumental environment disgrace. A blott on the landscape of untreated Oil waste. Overcrowded school and shortages Sitting in a HQ worth a £Billion for 70 councillors free soup and sandwiches. A bit of a soup,kitchen for the privileged The declared interests two free dinners a week from benefactors. Some of them unable to attend council meeting making health excuses. Their Tory pals. One May’s close friend (OOh) who used to help run her contituency matters. Cutting all additional needs (school) funding to the core.

      Not better together. Just attacking children’s rights. In common with May. A Tory Councillor not paying the council tax on a Castle. Another one now repossessed. They did get suspended for a change. That was just a step too far. Father of the celebrity bride. Game of thrones quite adequately titled. You would think they could lend a bob or to put in coffers.Right enough no fancy honeymoon. They must be economising and cutting back. Prioritising as tgthe Tories like to call it. Cadging off of someone else.

      Now two useless Tory reps. Holyrood abd Westminster. The ‘Salmond slayer’ who hasn’t got a clue. Another awful twitterer. Supporting May in every way with policies which will damagevtge economy. The Holyrood one trying to get advantages illegal for his business interests. The other Tory Holyrood rep doing the same.A useless imbecile out of his depth. Multimillionaires. All ‘gentlemen’ farmers on the subsidies. If you re-define the image of gentlemen. Entertaining May in a shed.

      The SNP did all the Projects when in minority power. That have helped the economy. The new Academy, the AWPR, the duel carriaging, the Turbines in the Bay, The increased more equitable Council funding by John Swinney cutting the deficit. John Swinney should cut the statuary limit (30) class sizes to 27/28. That would ensure they would have to keep class sizes down and make sure the money allocated goes on the right resources. Instead of them trying to cut the allocated funding and spending it on any no mandated rubbish. No one wants,

      Aiex Salmond the best representative the NE/Scotland the world has ever had. Who got things done Voted out because it was raining. Now possiblely crucified for accidently touching someone bum. Under clouds of secrecy to protect the complainer(s) who could be complaining for any reason political or otherwise.

      Deemed guilty before innocent on incidence that was supposed to be settled amicably in 2013. An apology given. According to reports – which could be wrong. Made up for title tattle by the lying Press. Why do the complaints re emerge in 2018 at a critical political time. Unless the reason in an attempt to discredit. The complainer should be willing to come forward and be named, like others have. That would show guts. Any discipline should fit the ‘crime’.

      That would be appropriate if the.complaints are genuine. Everybody who knows him are has seen him around women knows he treats them with nothing but respect, kindness and promotes them. Keeping his distance all the while. He has had female friends and colleagues for years. Is thick of thieves with his nice wife who supports him all the way. A constant partnership. It was not so long they were claiming he was gay. So what any way. Gays get on really well with women and other people . Form close relationships with families and a close circle of friends. Most are really nice people even though people use the same toilet. A minor incudence. What an issue to get fussed about.

      There are communal changing rooms everywhere to great affect. Families and friends can change together. There are separate locked cubicles. Not open toilets. It is just a matter of a number of doors. Nothing wrong with that,. Women are not reclining violets. It is not Victorian times, where it was a crime to show an ankle. It is just body parts. Everyone has them. Marks said Marriage is prostitution.

      Sorry for any grammar mistakes but have to post, Time running out,

    48. Iain says:

      In 2007 the LibDems supported the removal of bridge tolls. In 2010 the Libdems went into a coalition to prop up a minority Tory govt at Westminster. In 2017 the Tories wanted tolls on the new bridge. Maybe Mr Cole-Hamilton was sending a subtle message when he spoke of the ‘intollerable’ situation at the new bridge. lol

    49. Ken500 says:

      V&A almost forgot the most recent triumph. Well done Dundee. No longer the City of jute and jam but of discovery. How jammy is that. Decommissioning in the Harbour. Quite a sight from the bridge. Science centre. Art Gallery and great pedestrianised shopping. What a improvement. A shining example. The Fife coast. A great holiday destination, St Andrews a fabulous university town with great sites and Golf facilities for the visitors. Award winning fish ad chips. Although Stonehaven Bay takes some beating, Fresh accredited fish every day, with other delicacies. It just could go on and on. The SNP Gov success. What a difference.

    50. Iain mhor says:

      @muscleguy +1 for the Goon Show reference & reminding me of ‘Little Jim’ – talking of which, anyone heard from Major Bloodnok of late? Used to post quite often.
      Anyway, perhaps a big board with magnetic name strips is required for this competition :
      “A pain with an unreasonably small brain” or somesuch.

    51. Petra says:

      People like Mr Cole-Hamilton had better start putting money away for a rainy day because when we get our Independence, control over broadcasting and the ability to inform the Scots, he’s ”finished.”

    52. Merkin Scot says:

      “Intollerable”? I thought the Scottish government had already abolished tolls.

    53. Maria F says:

      Well, perhaps Mr Alex Cole-Hamilton could use some of that “in your face” eloquence and faux outrage of his to explain to us all how it is in any way or fashion “tollerable” [sic] for the Palace of Westminster, started to be built in 1016 to still not being finished today, over a millennium after. I mean, Scotland’s bridge delay for a few years will pale into insignificance when compared the delay of over a millennium over this Palace, doesn’t it?

      And what is even more outrageous and “intollerable” is the fact that this building was not commissioned by Scotland at all, as it was built over 600 years before the union, and yet, 1002 years on and here we are, the taxpayers of Scotland having to foot the bill for a sizeable chunk of the multibillion pounds bill that the refurbishment, reform and restoration of the darn thing is going to bring. I mean, these reforms and refurbishment are going to cost the Scots several orders of magnitude more than what the building costed the English people in 1016 in the first place. How is that “tollerable”?

      I wonder if Mr Alex Cole-Hamilton can stop thinking about the SNP for a second and actually explain how it is “tollerable” for the Scottish people having to foot a multimillion pound bill for a building that is going to remain in England after Scotland becomes independent.

      I mean, how are we going to get this money back? How are we going to get our money back that was taken from us to pay for the Weapons of Mass Destruction that we rejected? And how about all the vanity projects in England that Scotland has had to chip in for? When the division of assets starts once Scotland becomes independent, how are we going to be repaid back? Are we going to get a 10% of the bricks of the Big Ben? A 10% of the seats of the HoCs? A chunk of the motorways from England? Perhaps Mr Cole-Hamilton could direct some of that faux outrage of his towards the disproportion of the rather high bills that England’s vanity projects (and frankly, investing several billion in that palace is a vanity project) are being pinned onto Scotland and what we are going to get back of all what Scotland has had to pay for England’s infrastructure and vanity projects since 1707 until the time Scotland regains its independence.

    54. Vronsky says:

      Respect, that is a world-class effort from Alex Cole-Hamilton. But he shouldn’t rest on his laurels, it’s still all to play for.
      I think you should invent an award (could be a popular crowd funder) and gift a suitably engraved trophy at the end of the year – your own New Year Honours. There could be a grand dinner/reception for the winner, allowing him/her to make a modest and moving acceptance speech.
      Actually, that could be a fund-raiser in itself. If the winner can’t appear to accept the award, you could have so-o-o-o much fun choosing someone to accept it on their behalf.

      Go on, get creative.

    55. Corrado Mella says:

      Given that not long ago an overpass in Italy collapsed killing dozens of people and displacing thousands from their homes, lost forever, I say It’s A Good Thing© that Scotland’s bridges are maintained.

      I’d be happy to send ACH in Genoa at my expenses to say to those mourning the dead that the overpass was finished in the ’60s and no maintenance should have been done on it since.

      It’s exactly because of poor / no maintenance that people have died.

      What an insufferable, demented sociopath.

    56. Cubby says:

      The Maybots deal with the DUP is now looking like extortion with menaces. Ross Thomson Tory MP(what a Bampot) calling Tories arses. Britnats fighting with other Britnats is breaking out all over the UK.

      The DUP want to be the same as England but no they do not want to be the same as England when it comes to baking gay cakes. The DUP are the Britnats storm troopers. The DUP tail not wagging the dog but in total control.

      Will the Maybot gamble with another Gen Election now that she has learned (ha ha) how to dance.

      The UK has managed to be a disgrace and a laughing stock at the same time.

    57. Doug McGregor says:

      He gets the prize for being unable to eclipse Willie Rennie!

    58. Doug McGregor says:

      Great feature this , could run and run but how about a league with points and everything?

    59. Valerie says:

      Aye, well Rev, this version of Moron Wars is keeping you busy.

      You might have to use a guillotine measure.

    60. Bob Mack says:

      DUP threatening to vote against Tory budget at end of October, as they were shocked to find out what Barnier believed May was offering. Extension of EU rules to N Ireland.

      Being outvoted in budget is sure fire starting gun for General Election.
      I think it’s game on. All ready?

    61. David says:

      For those asking how Alex Cole-Hamilton ended up being a Lib Dem instead of a Tory I can’t tell you for sure but here’s some food or thought.

      In Edinburgh there is more strength in depth for the Tory list – case in point Ruth “Dark Money” Davidson, so it is easier to get on the Lib Dem’s good graces. Couple that with Edinburgh West being a Lib Dem strong hold for years until the SNP break through and then subsequent Tar and Feathering of thrown under the bus Michelle Thomson – if you were wanting to get into power a Lib Dem in Edin West is a good solid chance of victory.

      Makes me wonder why we aren’t pushing Pro indy folks into the smaller parties and try internal coups!

    62. wull2 says:

      If there is a GE, I think the SNP should say that a vote for the SNP is an advisory vote for independence, and will take it as such.

    63. I ran into Alex Cole Hamilton a quite a few years back during the Markinch by election in Fife.

      I didn’t rate him then, and I still don’t now, he gave the appearance of his own self importance.

      And it seems time hasn’t changed his attitude.

    64. Fred says:

      The occupants of the opposition benches at Holyrood demonstrate on a daily basis why the likes of Ruth Davidson would be spoiled for choice for sperm donors.

    65. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT just been greetin’ my way through Paul’s piece in the National.

      That man has a way wi’ words!

    66. Chick McGregor says:

      Unfinished bridges are a concern for Trolls, something might fall on their head or even on a valuable part of their anatomy.

    67. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Bob Mack @ 14:58,

      I still think myself that there will be a last-minute agreement for a “slow-mo” Brexit larded with mountains of fudge so that the dirty deed is done before anyone notices, but with the DUP in the mix, anything can happen. The NI tail is truly wagging the Tory dog. (Even though, like Scotland, NI voted to Remain!)

      Would the DUP really pull the plug and bring about a GE that would likely wipe out all their current influence? Or prefer to be bought off with some fancy window-dressing? Might May not actually welcome a chance of getting rid of the monkey on her back? And letting Corbyn take all the blame for the ensuing mess rather than her. Just as the Tories have done with Labour time after time.

      But while the DUP lunatics remain in charge of the asylum, it hard to predict. One wonders what Barnier really thinks about this whole Brit crapastrophe. The odds for a UKGE must be shortening.

    68. Tony O"neill says:

      I think that the snp, and the Scottish Parliament should just rip up the treaty of union. No need to participate in anymore rigged referendums. We didn’t need one to join in Union, why should we need one to leave it??.

    69. wull2 says:

      The Scottish Government stopped tolls years ago, but failed to get rid of trolls.
      You can stop them, vote YES next time

    70. Bob Mack says:

      Robet J Sutherland.

      Reports are from Nicholas Watt of News night. If May breaks their red line of any regulatory difference at all within the UK, they will vote against the budget.

      Senior DUP source is indicating that Foster was very alarmed at propositions put by Barnier which were sanctioned by Mrs May. There are red lines for the DUP and clearly Mrs May is crossing them.

      Spokesperson intimated that meeting next week will be pivotal,but not much hope of DUP accepting.

      Barnier has also indicated difficulty in getting DUP to understand. They don’t do fudges.

    71. CameronB Brodie says:

      The British national identity has been created over a considerable period of time. Subsequently, it will take time to unlearn a tradition of bad social practices that lead to conditions of cultural oppression. The constrained cognitive competence of yoonyawnist MSP must surely indicate the pressing nature of the democratic crises facing Scotland’s civic society.

      It’s the Body, Stupid: Concept Learning According to Cognitive Science

      I. How concepts are learned

      We address the question “How do people learn new concepts?” from the perspective of Unified Cognitive Science. By Unified Cognitive Science, we simply mean the practice of taking seriously all relevant findings from the diverse sciences of the mind, here focusing on the question of concept learning. The particular perspective on concept learning we advocate here grows out of the Neural Theory of Language project (, but is compatible with most cross-disciplinary work in the field.

      Leaving aside for now Fodor’s argument (Fodor 1988) that concepts can not be learned (which turns on definitions of learn and concept), there remains an ancient and profound scientific question. If we exclude divine intervention, there are only two possible sources for our mental abilities: genetics and experience. There is obviously something about our genetic endowment that enables people, but not other animals, to become fluent language users and possessors of human conceptual systems. Since nothing can enter our minds without intervention of our senses, which are themselves in large part the product of genetics, nature must provide the semantic basis for all the concepts that we acquire. So, in some sense, people really can not learn any concepts that go beyond the combinatorial possibilities afforded by genetics.

      At the same time, the conceptual systems of individual humans are profoundly marked by their experience – from maternal vocalization while still in the womb (Moon et al. 1993) to experience with culture-specific artifacts like baseball, chairs, or bartering practices. Evidence for relativistic effects of language on conceptual categories (Boroditsky In Press, Majid et al 2004, etc.) shows how conceptual systems are shaped by linguistic and other cultural experience. The scientific question confronting the field is how conceptual systems, which are so profoundly constrained by genetics, can at the same time be shaped by experience such that they display the great breadth of cultural diversity that they do….

      Stupidity Is Part of Human Nature
      Why we’re better off giving up the myth of perfect rationality.

      Is Racism Just a Form of Stupidity?

    72. gus1940 says:


      Excellent performance by Michelle Thomson on Scotland Tonight last night.

      If she has not yet been welcomed back into The SNP the sooner she is and restored to the Candidate List.

      What was done to her by the Britnat bastards and their msm lapdogs was a disgrace.

    73. Albert Herring says:

      The point isn’t that these “Scottish” “politicians” are stupid. It’s that they’re “too stupid” and of course all politicians are the same.

    74. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      While the NI iceberg is threatening to sink the Brexitannia good and proper, all we get here are BritNat niggling nincompoops continually maligning their own country. Aided and abetted by a compliant media with an obvious colonial mindset, as with Snow’s interview with Nicola on C4 the other day and the R4 news today.

      They have nothing to offer but depression and disengagement, a continual assault on our self-esteem.

      Make no mistake, to us these people might have all the appearance of morons (though fortunately for them it doesn’t require great intellect anyway), but their strategy is corrosive and co-ordinated, and is deliberately targeted at the unaware, to keep them passivated and insecure.

    75. heraldnomore says:

      Dorothy, you’re not alone with that one.

      Meanwhile Indycar reporting Barnier confirming UK will be leaving SM & CU

    76. Donald Bruce says:

      Have you driven the M6 lately in Cheshire it’s a disgrace. It was opened over 50 years ago still not finished. It’s down to two lanes. Why did the Tory government allow this to be opened. Is it not great we have in Scotland Tory MSP that have the intellectual to bring this to the public Please close the M6 until it’s complete.

    77. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      gus1940 @ 16:28,

      O/T You are of course perfectly right in all respects, but it occurs to me that it might be quite a good thing to have non-SNP pro-indy protagonists on the media as well. (And I don’t mean self-promoting tokens like Loki.)

      It’s easy for some to airily discount any party rep on telly as “that essennpee” whereas someone with no obvious allegiance might just get a hearing.

      I wish there were more pro-indy party-neutrals, people with some standing in the community, sticking their heads above the parapet and speaking up for what they know in their hearts is true, for all our sakes.

    78. Jon Drummond says:

      O/T (apologies),

      One day left guys…
      Can we do it for this great publication; iScot

      iScot video adverts to be broadcast on terrestrial and satellite TV over the months of October / November and December.

    79. Nick Brannigan says:

      Aye that’ll learn ye.

    80. scunner says:


      RE: Michelle Thomson

      I doubt there’s any chance of her or the likes of Neil Hay ever being candidates for any election.

      They are tainted in the eyes of the electorate, a lot of whom I suspect still believe the MSM hatchet job. It’s the “moral” aspect. She didn’t do anything illegal but that doesn’t matter. The perception is of an exploiter, and SNP(Bad) to boot.

    81. jfngw says:

      I would just ignore AC-H, he is an attention seeker. He does these tweets deliberately, I suspect he sees it as a little game. He needs to pass his time somehow since even if he didn’t turn up at Holyrood it would make no difference to the place.

      He is an ego with no real outlet, a BritNat who is not quite good enough for the Tories, so presumably joined the LibDems as the booby prize.

    82. One_Scot says:

      ‘It really is hard to adequately convey what a brainless piece of idiocy this is without just swearing for a solid hour, but we’ll try.’

      It is not very often that I laugh out loud, but that hit the spot.

    83. Ken500 says:

      @ Major Bloodnok is sometimes on Wings Twitter feed. On the other day. Went over to Twitter?

      Some folk are increasing occupied with YES organisations and activities. Or taking a step back for sanity. Waiting for some action and taking it easier. Just annoyance at the sheer scale of the Westminster incompetence. It does get tense all of the time. Going on travels or holidays. Or recovering from illness. Hospital appointments. Or caring duties. People have busy lives. Hard working people with lots of commitments. It is retired people who are often political activists. Or the unemployed. They have the time.

      The LibDems politicans have form of being the first ones calling the Cops in any dispute. Lying, making malicious complaint and being vindictive. Trying to criminalise people. Any complaints being dropped. A total waste of Police time, public money and energy. These ‘politicians’ think they are above other people having a high opinion of themselves. They are supposed to be helping other people. The public. Public servants but instead being self serving and self seeking.

      Ditto other ‘politician’s’ They are the first ones to give offence but can’t take any constructive argument. Complaining of harrassment or such like. Often from vulnerable people looking for some professional help but being ignored.

      The politicos preferring to play the victim for some cheap publicity. Some of them criticising all sections of society in ignorant, offensive rants. They then get found out. They then try and cover up. A PR exercise pay for with public money. Calculating, arrogant and ignorant looking after the main chance. Them. That is all they are interesting in. Showing off. Sometimes obsessive about single issues. Instead of a wide agenda. They are not interested in others. They get found out and get voted off.

    84. Thepnr says:

      O/T This is the best article I’ve read about Brexit that pretty much sums up where we are and where we could be heading. All the possibilities laid out and there are a lot.

      A very long but very interesting read if you like that kind of stuff 🙂

    85. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ken500 at 2:18 pm.

      You typed,
      “Decommissioning in the Harbour. Quite a sight from the bridge.”

      It’s not actually decommissioning. It’s repair and refit, mainly.

      “With its deep-water berths and extensive landside project areas, the port regularly accommodates significant fabrication and refit projects destined for North Sea and Norwegian Sector operations.”

      That’s from,

      “A major new oil rig repair and subsea engineering facility is to be installed at the Port of Dundee.
      Leading Aberdeen-based offshore firms PD&MS Energy and Harlen have committed £2.5m to the project.

      Dozens of jobs will be created at the 38,750 sq ft facility at Princess Alexandra Wharf in Dundee.
      The city already plays host to North Sea rigs for repairs and upgrades at a temporary facility.

      The new base will host up to 50 full-time personnel, rising to upwards of 260 including contractors during specific projects, and manage offshore asset service works in excess of £8m in its first financial year alone.

      Previously housed at neighbouring Prince Charles Wharf, the new, larger facility is designed for rig repair and upgrade work, vessel repair and large fabrication and engineering work across the energy sectors.”

      That’s 2014 news from,

    86. frogesque says:

      Crossed the Forth today (and last Saturday:grins!) via the new QFC bridge. 70mph both ways, no probs. It does look a little less photogenic with the covers etc in place for the work going on under the bridge but it’s perfectly functional.

      Far better than the old bumpity bump at 40 mph going over the old FRB.

      Not to mention the horrendous detour via Kincardine every time there was a substantial puff of wind.

      Maybe double barrel whasisname would like to go back to the old ferry crossing and the little better than single track roads that serviced it. So romantic don’t you know?

    87. Welsh Sion says:

      Watched a couple of programmes on Ancient History (it’s one of my things outside politics that keeps my interest and I learnt, not in particular order that:

      – The Great Pyramid in Giza, Egypt is UNFINISHED
      – the Sphinx, also in Egypt is UNFINISHED
      – Stonehenge in England is UNFINISHED
      – Many of the stone statutes (moai) on Easter Island/Rapa Nui are UNFINISHED

      *All* these projects unfinished. But world marvels nonetheless.

      Is the SNP to blame for them being unfinished, Mr Cole-Hamilton?

      I acknowledge you are a work-in-progress, yourself …

    88. Thepnr says:

      MajorBloodnok has the 2nd comment on this thread.

    89. Hamish100 says:

      A ChyphenH went to Madras College a state secondary school apparently. I went to one too but we didn’t seem to have as many colonels and military types.

      I suspect they wouldn’t let me in.

      I’ll change my name Hamish — 100. Much more gravitas.

    90. Ken500 says:

      Michelle Thomson and Neil Hay could take other roles in the organisation and in the wider the YES campaign. Just as influential, There is evidence they are already doing that. In a better position, less stressful, with great support. There are plenty of important roles for other people who do not want to be candidates that are just as fulfilling and interesting.There are plenty in the SNP and the wider YES campaign.

      Many people actually feel sorry for the poor individuals who have to spend their time at the cess pit of Westminster. The seat of corruption and conceited unionists with their sense of self entitlement. It is bad enough having to look at them for short periods of time. They turn people’s stomachs. Just the sight of them. Too many even to mention.

      Rees Mogg, May all the front bench. Cash, Redmond, Ian Duncan Smith. McVey. Patel the list is too numerous. Hunt looks as though he is stressed out of his mind. Or on drugs or alcohol. Weird staring eyes. Johnston is an imbecile. A dangerous warmonger causing trouble all over the world. A greedy, dirty, lazy lying criminal. There is something wrong about his state. Trying to start a war anywhere. As if there is not too much unnecessary violence and suffering.already. Not rational normal behaviour. A psycho bastard by his own admission. That’s what they call themselves. Arseholes’.

      Eton and Oxbridge have a lot to answer. A total recognised lack of diversity. Funded 2000 times more than any other universities on public money. Churning out malevolent individual determined to do others harm. There should really be something done about it.

    91. galamcennalath says:

      May would gain considerable kudos, even from me, if she would tell the DUP to go and take a flying f’ck. These are people who put no value on peace in Ireland. They live in an alter reality, denying everything the rest of the world accepts. At best they are an archean curiosity, at worst very dangerous.

    92. Morgatron says:

      Cole – Hamilton = Botin

    93. Valerie says:

      @ Thepnr 5.42

      Ian Dunt always writes well on Brexit. He has been consistently well informed in the last 2 years.

      The tragic part about that piece is that there is nothing new there. All those EU positions/rules were made clear after the vote.

      Davis was simply a clownish placeman for the ERG, put there to fart around for 18 months. Now the end is in sight for the extremists.

      It’s No Deal, unless something catastrophic changes. They have appointed a Minister for Food supplies, and currently hiring these Emergency advisors.

      It’s a surreal nightmare from a sci fi novel. Except it’s our lives.

    94. CameronB Brodie says:

      I also wish the DUP and their Scottish brethren would go and take a flying…. The prejudice of low-intellect bigots is not confined to religious hatred, it has close association with mysogeny and racism. The Christo-facsit/Tory mind is indeed a dark and scary place, ridged in values and dominated by fear and anxiety.

      Belief in God Supports Prejudice Against Gays and Atheists


      The current paper presents literature relevant to the relationship of religiosity, spirituality, and personal beliefs with mental health and, in particular, anxiety disorders as an empirical narrative review, providing an overview on the most important and clinically relevant research results on the topic. The relationship between religiosity/spirituality, personal beliefs (ie, magical ideation and paranormal beliefs), and mental health has lately been studied extensively, and results have indicated significant associations among these variables. However, scientific approaches to this field are complex and multidimensional, partly leading to poor operationalization, incomparable data, and contradictory results. Literature demonstrates that higher religiosity/spirituality and magical ideation scores have often been associated with increased obsessive–compulsive traits.

      Similar results could not be confidently replicated for other anxiety disorders. However, it is still unclear if these differences suggest a specific association with obsessive–compulsive traits and reflect deviating etiopathogenetic and cognitive aspects between obsessive–compulsive disorder and other anxiety disorders, or if these results are biased through other factors. Religiosity/spirituality and personal beliefs constitute important parameters of human experience and deserve greater consideration in the psychotherapeutic treatment of psychiatric disorders.

      Keywords: spirituality, religiosity, religion, paranormal beliefs, magical ideation anxiety disorders, obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, anxiety, coping

      The limits of tolerance
      A religious worldview cannot expect the same kinds of tolerance as racial, gender, or sexual identities. Here’s why

      Belief in God is a stronger predictor of some kinds of prejudice than dogmatism

    95. Thepnr says:


      I do like Ian Dunts writing and that was a good article but as you say there is nothing new there. I saw the list of contributors at the end, quite a number of informed people right enough.

      He could have taken a shortcut and just came and read Wings.

    96. CameronB Brodie says:

      Does it not say something when the DUP holds the power to determine Brexit?

      Psychology of Religion and Intercultural Dialogue and Tolerance

      Abstract:Irrespective of all negative predictions of social scientists concerning its very survival, religion continues to be a vigorous social force strongly influencing culture of modern man. Taken its motivational and cultural power, specific social location and organizational configuration, religion becomes rather indispensable for any kind of intercultural dialogue campaign. Insights of psychology of religion in that context becomes increasingly important given the increasing prominence of nested paradigm in inter group dialogue and conflict resolution whereby local actors embedded at the gross-level of cross-cultural encounter are directly involved and responsible for creating
      atmosphere of dialogue and peaceful coexistence.

      Psychologically speaking, threats to intrinsic peace and tolerance building capacities of religion come from psychologically unbearable and abnormal environmental conditions, religious orientations such as extrinsic religiosity and partly religious fundamentalism, authoritarian personality trait, overstressed ethnic identity and uncontrolled inter-group processes. On the other hand, the most significant contribution of religion to intercultural dialogue lays in benign religious orientations of intrinsic religiosity and religious orthodoxy, and in ability of religion to offer subordinate transcultural goals and more inclusive categories of self-identification that could pacify otherwise competitive intercultural relations.

      Key words:
      religious orientations, intercultural tolerance, authoritarian personality, ethno national identity, realistic group conflict, social identity.

      Psychology, Religion and Development: A Literature Review

      The Development of Religious Tolerance: Co-operative Board Games with Children and Adolescents

    97. Pete Barton says:

      @ Welsh Sion & ACH – Ooo, touche !

      Alex, you must have learned something by now,surely you know how foolish your remarks look.

      Try holing the Scottish government on something that warrants it.

      Otherwise I can only assume you are

      a) poorly researched

      b) an agent of the British state

      c) A complete cretin.

      Either way, you are proving yourself to be unworthy of your position in Parliament.

      Now get a grip, man..

    98. Andy-B says:

      Sharp suits and empty heads just about sums up the Tory branch office in Scotland.

      Cole-Hamilton’s bonce being particularly empty

    99. Tinto Chiel says:

      “The NI tail is truly wagging the Tory dog. (Even though, like Scotland, NI voted to Remain!)”

      Quite right, Robert J Sutherland. The wishes of the 55% in NI and the 62% of us in Scotland are routinely ignored by the Tories and their new best perpetually marching buddies, led by the fragrant Arlene Foster.

      Trouble is, the DUP so, so want to be “British”, but only on their own terms. They don’t want to be “British”, however, when, it comes to UK legislation on gay marriage, women’s rights, abortion und so weiter.

      The in-out, in-out, shake it all about (in a non-sexual way) party really need a new territory where they can build their ideal society and I’ve just found the perfect spot:

    100. Legerwood says:

      Report in Herald online that Corbyn has ruled out any pact with the SNP to prop up a Labour Gov.

    101. starlaw says:

      Just watched speech by Barnier on Facebook, looks like the endgame is at hand, best let the experts chew on this for the night.

    102. Colin Alexander says:

      The only deal the SNP should be making with Unionist parties is:
      bye bye UK.

    103. Iain mhor says:

      Deary me how on earth did I miss your 2nd post on the thread.? A senior moment obviously!
      I’ll get ma coat…

    104. ElGordo says:

      Play on the stock markets, final negotiations..

    105. frogesque says:

      @ Legerwood: 7.56

      Corbyn always was going to refuse. Apart from Labour’s visceral hatred for the SNP it would make no sense to have a shaky Lab UK Gov propped up by the SNP demanding an S30.

      Agree an S30, Scotland votes for Indy and what’s left of the UK gets a Tory government forever. Any southern trust in Labour would be blown out the water.

      I don’t think Westminster would agree to an S30 whatever colour of Tory is in power. Nicola has it right, we ask, get knocked back and it’s ” Hello UN” and we have one anyway.

      In short, fuck the lot of the toadying Establishment weasels!

    106. Labour amendment to Agriculture Bill lost a vote tonight in Commons,

      nothing newsworthy there,

      but the DUP abstained instead of voting with the Conservative and Unionist,

      the DUP did not get £1,000,000,000 payoff from UK taxpayers to be abstaining instead of voting with the Conservative and Unionist party,

      if UK PM doesn`t kowtow to the DUP we will be looking at a GE pretty soon methinks.

    107. Daisy Walker says:

      Re the DUP red lines.

      They don’t make any sense.

      If there is no deal/hard Brexit, the EU, HAS GOT TO create a hard border within Ireland, in order to protect the Single Market.

      For any pro British party in NI not to bend over backwards to make some form of compromise work is to go against their stated interests.

      Given the chaos, given the lack of time, that the British Labour Party is not openly coming out and either supporting a soft Brexit or insisting on a Peoples Vote to cancel also Does Not Make Any Sense.

      The only thing that does add up, is that No Deal is and always was the plan all along and Labour, Lib Dems and DUP are all following orders and playing their part for Queen and Country.

      1/protecting the Tax Havens for her Majesty and co the number 1 priority.

      2/The ‘petty cash box’ to fund it will be using Scotland’s oil and gas (for the short term), her renewable energy potential (for the long term) her whisky revenue and NHS as sweetie money.

      3/Creating chaos in the streets to generate riots and justify imposing ’emergency rule’ and therefore close Holyrood/prevent Indy Ref 2.

      What we might just see is the DUP agree, very grudgingly, to something just now, which will fudge things just enough to delay things a few more months, and then pull the plug on it at the 11th hour.

      The British Establishment could put Arlene back in her box very, very easily if they wanted – perhaps even legally with a trial over their scandal about money. No way they’d allow her and her clan to ruin their interests.

      If article 50 is extended, at least we remain in the EU (with the associated rights that come with that) for a bit longer. However, it also means the laws on tax havens also start to bite.

      No doubt we shall see what we shall see.

    108. Brian Powell says:

      I’m not sure I’m getting this right, but the Tories asked for a deal that would not be applicable to Scotland, only NI and the EU is giving them it.

    109. Alex Montrose says:

      It’s all part of the ongoing ” Scotland is shite ” narrative.

    110. stu mac says:

      @frogesque says:
      10 October, 2018 at 9:12 pm
      @ Legerwood: 7.56

      I believe it’s been mentioned more than once on this site that with only rare exceptions Labour has been in power when England voted for a Labour majority. It’s a myth that Labour can only get power when Scotland is Labour enough. Corbyn appears to be going down the same route as Millipedeband and closing down an option for fear of the right wing attacks it will open him to.

      IMHO he’d be better saying stuff like he’d accept support from anyone who’s against Tory policies – he could easily add without going into any kind of official alliance. However unlike his predecessor he does have one reason for not wanting SNP support. He is anti-EU and the SNP are pro-EU (although this is not the case for his whole party – perhaps he doesn’t want that support because they would side with the pro-EU members).

    111. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sectarian bigotry is bad, mk. Pitty the British government is a hostage to it. Still, it fits in nicely with the Primeminster’s apparent support of racism.

      The Chronic Dependence of Popular Religiosity upon Dysfunctional Psychosociological Conditions

      Abstract: Better understanding the nature, origin and popularity of varying levels of popular religion versus secularism, and their impact upon socioeconomic conditions and vice versa, requires a cross national comparison of the competing factors in populations where opinions are freely chosen. Utilizing 25 indicators, the uniquely extensive Successful Societies Scale reveals that population diversity and immigration correlate weakly with 1st world socioeconomic conditions, and high levels of income disparity, popular religiosity as measured by differing levels of belief and activity, and rejection of evolutionary science correlate strongly negatively with improving conditions.

      The historically unprecedented socioeconomic security that results from low levels of progressive government policies appear to suppress popular religiosity and creationist opinion, conservative religious ideology apparently contributes to societal dysfunction, and religious prosociality and charity are less effective at improving societal conditions than are secular government programs. The antagonistic relationship between better socioeconomic conditions and intense popular faith may prevent the existence of nations that combine the two factors. The nonuniversality of strong religious devotion, and the ease with which large populations abandon serious theism when conditions are sufficiently benign, refute hypotheses that religious belief and practice are the normal, deeply set human mental state, whether they are superficial or natural in nature. Instead popular religion is usually a superficial and flexible psychological mechanism for coping with the high levels of stress and anxiety produced by sufficiently dysfunctional social and especially economic environments. Popular nontheism is a similarly casual response to superior conditions.

      religion, secularization, universality, socioeconomics, societal dysfunction, successful societies scale

      Religion, Tolerance and Intolerance: Views from Across the Disciplines

      Religion, Intolerance, And Conflict

    112. Bob Mack says:

      @Brian Powell,

      Almost but not quite. The EU envisage a backstop for N Ireland only, to give time to find a more permanent solution.

      However DUP see this as differentiating from the rest of the UK and will never accept that because their continued existence as part of the UK could be put in doubt.
      They will vote against the Tories in that event rather than with.

      Boris has added fuel to the fire tonight by emphasising part of UK would still be related by EU with no definite date of when that would cease.

      Mrs May must be thinking of doing a “Reggie Perrin” and starting again somewhere else.

      No win situation.

    113. sandy says:

      Michael Forsyth:

      That man is evil, sleekid, lower than a snakes belly. Keep that bastard out of a free Scotland. We don’t need any more pollution.

    114. frogesque says:

      @ stuff Mac: 10.07

      Yep, well aware that Scotland gets what England wants. My point was that in the (unlikely) event of a Lab Gov supported by the SNP being left in the lurch post Indy then Labour voters would feel utterly betrayed.

      It won’t happen anyway, such is the hatred of the SNP, Labour would rather support a Tory government than enter into any sort of formal or informal arrangement. Likewise, I personally would not trust Labour to deliver.

      The venom positively spits from all the southern parties at the very mention of our Indy movement.

    115. ben madigan says:

      @Brian Powell who said:

      “I’m not sure I’m getting this right, but the Tories asked for a deal that would not be applicable to Scotland, only NI and the EU is giving them it.”

      The EU has always insisted that whatever deal is negotiated for Northern ireland (i.e. border in irish sea or equivalent) applies ONLY to NI – because of its special circumstances i-e- the belfast/Good Friday Agreement, which is an international Treaty.

      Unfortunately for Scotland the EU negotiates with the UK government. As we have seen FM Sturgeon, the Scottish government and the scottish MPs have made no headway in ensuring Scotland’s voice is heard in the negotiations

    116. Dr Jim says:

      It’ll no be lang till wir free o Englands political perties
      n a thir branches, then we kin get oan wae things

    117. jfngw says:

      DUP person on BBC Newsnight. They don’t want to bring down the Tories, they just want Theresa May removed. I suspect they want Rees-Mogg or Johnson as this they think would turn the clock back to the 50’s when their people ruled the roost.

      What I suspect is the Tories have long memories and will show them who is the boss once they are in a position to do so. Remember in the 80’s they were willing to destroy British industrial jobs in revenge for being humiliated in the early 70’s.

    118. Hamish100 says:

      Increasingly it seems May’s only option is to hold a general election. Whats the brexiters option in England? Vote Labour? If they want out of the EU they need to suck up to the chequers approach (at least for the moment).
      What about the bigoted DUP. Who will support them? In some respects May never needed to buy their votes for they have no where else to go. DUP will not support Corbyns Labour. May with a reduced majority will declare they have had a peoples vote. The SNP an opportunity from either direction. Likely to gain seats from Tories and Labour as the main remainer party and one that supports Scotland.

    119. jfngw says:

      @ben madigan

      Well the power is in the hands of those in Scotland. They think that the Scots will just bend the knee and comply. If we don’t show them that we won’t accept this then we will get what they decide.

      If we don’t chose independence now it’s hard to see a situation when we would ever vote for it. The preceding looks a bit negative but it takes courage to make this step, do the Scots have it or will we forever just be England’s hangers on?

    120. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      I can fully understand the Regimes hatred for all things SNP and Scottish for that matter.

      Following Brexit England will manufacture jam and some cider.

      When Scotland sails off and it is going to happen what have they got left?

      Nicola should negotiate independence now a gentle independence, guarantee help to England water, electricity, food, accept English refugees for a period all in return for a no nonsense split.

      Lets be adult about this.

    121. Hamish100 says:

      If NI gain the tax benefits of nearly being in the EU to Scotlands loss we should add a new tax from NI imports to protect our agriculture

    122. yesindyref2 says:

      Well, it’s in Scotland’s power to just say “XYZZY”.

    123. Muiris says:

      Maybe he meant ‘untollable’, as in ‘free’??

    124. CameronB Brodie says:

      The fact these DUP dinosaurs are given preferential recognition over the popular sovereignty of Scottish residents, should leave Scots in fear of their future security. London’s stance towards Scotland really is intolerable. The future of Scotland’s culture must not be shaped through a tradition ignorance, arrogance and outright prejudice.

      There is a better, more human approach to national government than is offered by the UKOK plc. parties.

      Political Intolerance in the Context of Democratic Theory

      Abstract and Keywords

      This article first provides an overview of democratic theory in order to provide a better understanding of the meaning of political intolerance. The concept of tolerance is clearly explained to avoid any confusion with other terms such as permissiveness. The article identifies the role of tolerance in democratic theory and attempts to determine why some citizens are more tolerant than others. It also pinpoints the consequences of mass political intolerance.

      Keywords: democratic theory, political intolerance, role of tolerance, consequences, mass political intolerance

      Intolerance or Ignorance: where to draw the line?

      Neural Correlates of Intolerance of Uncertainty in Clinical Disorders

    125. ben madigan says:

      @ jfngw who said :

      “Well the power is in the hands of those in Scotland . . . .”

      well said. All of what you wrote.
      Nothing i could add or wish to add.
      Except heartfelt wishes – for Independnce!

      Our country (since I’m of scottish heritage and bear a clan’s name) is in the hands of today’s Scots!

      Treat her well!

    126. K1 says:

      Really excellent wee discussion/intereview with SNP Socialists Group, with Indylive.

      Well worth a watch to see the impact they are having and suggestions to take the socialist agenda forward within the SNP.

    127. mr thms says:

      “Meet Jamie Genevieve: Face on BBC Scotland’s new TV channel”

      The BBC has announced six new programmes for its BBC Scotland channel launching in February next year. Comedy, drama, documentaries and a game show will be part of the offering.

      What are the new shows?”

      My toes are curling

    128. Cactus says:

      Scotland’s latest bridge-crossing is phenomenal! 🙂

      In case any missed the new page (see top RHS):

      Allow Jim to explain it in one…:

      Halloween Season is now up on us… ‘member this one:

      Morning Scotland.

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      NO vote below 40% for the first time ever

      at 39% for the no deal Brexit scenario in the most recent opinion poll (Survation), including don’t knows which are at 18%.

      I don’t how I missed that, far more important than the YES 52%, NO 48% eliminating don’t knows.

      It means less than 40% of the electorate support the Union. And probably really way less, a lot of it is inertia and worry about change.

      Thanks to HIUFD for pointing out that startling statistic in another thread, he’s a real hero for YES.

    130. yesindyref2 says:

      Here’s Curtice’s tracker, make sure it’s the table not the line or bar. Lowest NO in that series was 40%. Curiously Curtice doesn’t have that result well, anywhere, nor do I think he’s mentioned it on TV. Wonder why!

    131. Robert Peffers says:

      @Iain mhor says: 10 October, 2018 at 8:43 pm:


      ” … Deary me how on earth did I miss your 2nd post on the thread.? A senior moment obviously!
      I’ll get ma coat…

      Naw! never mind yer coat Jist get yer zimmer.


    132. Robert Peffers says:

      @frogesque says: 10 October, 2018 at 9:12 pm:

      ” … Nicola has it right, we ask, get knocked back and it’s ” Hello UN” and we have one anyway.”

      Yep! That’s the way I’ve read it and said so on Wings for a while now.

    133. Ghillie says:

      What are we going to for entertainment once we get Independence?

      Will they still kindly supply this level of nonsense?

      Serious question =)

    134. Ghillie says:

      frogesque @ 9.12 pm and Robert Peffers @ 5.43 am

      Oh thank you, that fair cheers me up 🙂

      I have a feeling the United Nations will get involved at some point. In a really good way =)

    135. Petra says:

      BBC Scotland news:

      Mike Russell will attend a meeting at 10am today in Whitehall to get a Brexit update.
      Child abuse report published re. Roman Catholic establishment.
      EIS to consider next step re. 10% pay rise. May ballot for industrial action.





    136. Robert Peffers says:

      Offered without comment by me:-

      What do other wingers think of it?

    137. Kangaroo says:

      Yesindyref2 @3:01 & 3:05am

      Struggling to get your “No below 40%” mark.

      What am I doing wrong?

    138. Petra says:

      ‘Here’s who’s on the Question Time panel this week.’

      Crime writer and broadcaster Val McDermid (pro-independence)

      Scottish Government Brexit minister Mike Russell (pro-independence)

      Former Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale (Unionist)

      Scottish Tory MP Ross Thomson (Unionist)

      Spectator magazine editor and Telegraph columnist Fraser Nelson (Unionist)


      ‘Theresa May’s Brexit plan comes under attack from all sides.’

      ..”In the past, losing a budget vote generally triggered a general election – though this is no longer the case under the fixed-term parliament act.”..


      SNP: New Suicide Minister should probe Tory social security policies.’

      ..”During Prime Minister’s Questions, Blackford referred to a report in the Independent from last December revealing that “nearly one in every two women taking part in the UK Government’s work capability assessment say they have attempted suicide after or during the process.”..

    139. Sinky says:

      Three good stories in the Herald this morning which the BBC should cover in its news bulletins.
      1. Electoral Commission rap on knuckles for Cole Hamilton as they are investigating aspects of Lib Dem expenses returns involving Cole Hamilton.
      2. Greenspiece investigation into the five industrial fishing companies that control bulk of Scottish fishing quotas
      3.Lord Kerr article on Little Englanders and Brexit
      However these stories don’t suit the Unionist agenda

    140. Petra says:

      ‘Tory peer says Scots must remember south-east England ‘pays their bills.’

      ”Important for sensible Scotland to recall who pays their bills; SE ENGLAND and the City of London.

      “Indépendance to mean anything always includes Financial indépendance. Don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs…. (and I’m half Scottish).”

      ..’She replied: “Sadly (I am half Scot) the oil revenues don’t belong to Scotland as the sea map differs in international law from the land map. Very unfair, but that’s life.”


      ‘Scottish Independence Convention sends open letter to Yes movement.’

      ‘The letter identifies the need for a national organisation to improve coordination of the independence campaign, the creation of a strategy to achieve it, and also better communication including the rebuttal of stories in a hostile media.”..

    141. Sinky says:

      Another built in Unionist majority on BBC question time from Scotland tonight. when was it otherwise?

    142. Clootie says:

      ….LibDems lie! The cheat! They sell out!
      During the 2014 they led the Unionist charge in the NE. They put the Tories into office and proved their credentials as “Yellow Tories” once again.

      …If it looks like a Tory, If it sounds like a Tory, If it behaves like a Tory… Then it is a Tory!

    143. sassenach says:

      So, as usual the QT panel is balanced 4 to 2 AGAINST the pro-Indy side. (Obviously counting Dumbleby in that!).

      That’s BBC Scotland’s idea of parity , particularly when coming from 50/50 Scotland.

      BBC QT never changes – shower of sh*te!

    144. Petra says:

      ‘Hillary Clinton launches attack on Tories over not voting to censure Hungarian leader Viktor Orban.’

      ..”Delivering the keynote speech at a conference at the Bonavero Institute of Human Rights at the University of Oxford, marking the 70th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the former presidential candidate said the Tories had “come a long way from the party of Churchill or Thatcher”…..


      ‘Renowned Belgrano whistleblower Clive Ponting joins the SNP.’

      ..”Now a resident in Scotland, Ponting became famous in the 1980s when he gave government papers to Tam Dalyell MP that proved the Argentine ship General Belgrano was heading away from the Falklands War task force when it was torpedoed and sunk by the submarine HMS Conqueror with the loss of 323 lives.”..


      Wee Ginger Dug: ‘My four-year journey from despair to hope and joy.’

    145. Luigi says:

      Sinky says:

      11 October, 2018 at 7:48 am

      Another built in Unionist majority on BBC question time from Scotland tonight. when was it otherwise?

      Have ye seen the names! Nae fears there – the usual lack of quality on the BritNats’ side. Easily dealt with – it’s the carefully selected BritNat audiences that annoy me. 🙂

    146. Nana says:

      “When it comes to the question of breaches of human rights we shouldn’t be asking whether or not it is right to take sides.” Yesterday I spoke in the debate on the treatment of Palestinian minors in the Israeli justice system at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe

      A little bit about how DEFRA isn’t ready for Brexit from my speech on the Agriculture Bill today

    147. Nana says:

      Road Haulage Association at Brexit committee today confirm my story from March – a number of organisations obliged to sign non disclosure agreements before discussions re: Brexit border with Government -not impressed with what they have been told, but blocked from talking details

    148. Nana says:

      OMG!! what’s Theresa May and her Basketcase Tories done to our NHS, health chiefs begging for Volunteers to come help out at hospitals!

      After 3 days in Belfast, talking to all sides, here’s what I’ve learned – on the business and the politics of this deal. And its viability.

      Read these job descriptions fully:
      Govt hiring civil emergencies staff in case of no deal Brexit. Advert says 9 month post with possible ‘extension’

    149. Nana says:

      Brexit: grilled pain

      Revealed: sick, tortured immigrants locked up for months in Britain

      Judge who jailed fracking protesters with ‘excessive’ sentence has family links to oil and gas firm

    150. ScottieDog says:


      Indépendance to mean anything always includes Financial indépendance. Don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs…. (and I’m half Scottish).”

      The sad thing is, the city of London is a parasite…

    151. Collie says:

      Prepare for “plant watch” on the BBC tonight.

      No it’s not something you will find on Beechgrove Garden, but on BBC Question Time from the Scottish Parliament tonight.

    152. Macart says:


      Cheers Nana. The punt is always appreciated.

      Yes. Yes, Ms May’s plan and government are caught between the horns of a constitutional dilemma. One of their own making and it’s about to go off in their face.

      I’m sad on the inside. Honest. 😎

    153. ScottieDog says:

      Wonder if drscottstinks will be there with the fake moustache.
      There will certainly be plenty of Tory bigots.
      50/50 my arse.

      Glad I chucked the licence

    154. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana.


      ‘Ofsted inspectors to move away from exams results focus.’

      ‘Exam results and grades will no longer be the key focus of Ofsted inspections in England, under new plans.’

    155. Robert Louis says:

      Don’t know about anybody else, but something that just keeps on happening, is really starting to get annoying. Almost every week, somebody who supports independence, points out online somewhere all the bad things about brexit and how Scotland is being absused. They then go on to say, but the polls haven’t changed much, don’t people care??

      The problem I have is simply this, of course people WOULD care, if they actually knew. Most folk do not follow politics closely, and often actively switch it out of their lives by just ignoring it. So, when Westminster does another sh*t thing to Scotland, they REALLY have no idea it is happening. The likes of the BBC (or even worse, SKY ‘news’) or the mail or Herald are NOT going to tell them.

      We saw the response when the SNP walked out of Westminster over Westminster behaviour, and for just a few days, folk noticed. Because almost all of the media is biased and pretends that absolute outrages are not being perpetrated against Scots, folk have no idea what is going on.

      Anyway, the point is this, the polls will not change significantly until a campaign actually begins, a referendum gets called and it starts to get media coverage. In short, the polls for independence are not changing very much, simply because most Scots are totally unaware of what is being done.

      Sitting back, waiting and waiting for polls to somehow magically change is as stupid as brexit.

    156. Nana says:

      Morning Macart 🙂

      Brexit news is changing quickly, some articles may already be meaningless. Hard to keep up but I’m doing my best.
      Foreign media covering Brexit as an absolute Horror show for Britain.

      The real Brexit broker

      Britain expects 5,000 financial services jobs to leave by Brexit Day

    157. Breeks says:

      Ghillie says:
      11 October, 2018 at 5:58 am

      frogesque @ 9.12 pm and Robert Peffers @ 5.43 am

      Oh thank you, that fair cheers me up ?

      I have a feeling the United Nations will get involved at some point. In a really good way =)

      I wholeheartedly agree, but can anybody provide me with a conincing argument why we must suffer the actuality of Brexit before doing this? The circumstances are Constitutional absolutes which are unalterable by ephemeral democracy. What benefit lies in secrecy?

      I accept International recognition and perhaps domestic acceptance of such events would be immensely strengthened backed by a convincing democratic majority, but I remain utterly flummoxed why we look to Brexit and Brexit alone to shift the polls in our favour for Independence, while the much stronger and much more immotive issues of Sovereign Independence and our unconstitutional subjugation are irons which are largely left out of the fire.

      I’ve said it before, repeatedly, but NOT doing a particular thing, (such as calling the actual referendum), is not the same as doing nothing, in this immediate context, actively promoting the vital importance of EU membership and the criticality of it to Scotland’s welfare.

      Europe is not an issue which we must decide separate from Scottish Inbdependence. Europe, and our Constitutional subjugation are surely just “bolt-on” additions to compelling Independence arguments which haven’t changed one iota since 2014. They “build” and add to the position we had in 2014, – they don’t replace it.

      Let us please remember the indigenous North American fable of every child being born with a good wolf and bad wolf in their soul, and the trait that grows stronger is the one that’s fed.

      Let us use Brexit to feed demand for Independence, not overshadow it. Independence is our real salvation, not this agenda for “cherry picking” a bespoke soft Brexit for ourselves staying in the Single Market.

      Step up to the plate. SET the agenda. Don’t follow Westminster’s.

    158. frogesque says:

      Sorry for BBC ( ptooo!) link.

      Johnson Press up for sale.

      The publisher of newspapers including the ‘i’, The Scotsman and the Yorkshire Post has put itself up for sale.

    159. Nana says:

      Breaking: Johnston Press, Edinburgh-based publisher of ‘i’, @thescotsman @yorkshirepost + >200 local titles, has spent 18 months trying to refinance its £220m debt. No success, so concluded it has to put itself up for sale. All of it. Recent market valuation: £3m

    160. orri says:

      Think there may be a serious over reporting going on by someone not understanding terminology as far as anti-depressants go.

      They do acknowledge that some have more than one use so something that might relax muscles for an injury might be included.

      However it also states it’s a per item. Which is where the problem comes. Each item will be a single months supply. So that means that if someone is on a single prescription rather than a combination they’ll be reported 12 to 13 times.

    161. Frank Gillougley says:

      And yet another significant symptom of ‘The end of Everything’:
      The Scotsman for sale (never read it in me life, being from the Republic of Glasgow)
      And so it goes…
      Tick, tock …as they say.

    162. Petra says:

      I’ve received a wee email from Dirty Money Davidson.


      Ruth Davidson MSP, Leader of the Opposition

      8 Oct at 15:28

      Dear ……… ,

      This week is the SNP conference and, on the very first day, Nicola Sturgeon has come up with another excuse to demand a re-run of the independence referendum.

      She’s made it clear beyond doubt that she’ll keep pushing for a second independence referendum no matter what the outcome of Brexit and that she’ll set out her plans for another vote on breaking up Britain by the end of the year.

      Time is short if we are to stop her, so forgive me if I come straight to the point.

      I need your help.

      We know that the SNP has been building up a huge war-chest to fight another referendum.

      And we also know Nicola Sturgeon will have no hesitation in putting the full power of the Scottish government behind her campaign to break up Britain. That’s the same government we pay for, and which is meant to be hard at work improving our local schools and hospitals.

      So we need to stop this in its tracks now. We need to match her, pound for pound.

      Please click here to make a donation today, and you have my personal guarantee that every penny will be spent on opposing Nicola Sturgeon’s new independence referendum drive.

      Thank you for your support.

      Ruth Davidson MSP
      Leader of the Opposition – Scottish Conservative

    163. Ottomanboi says:

      The conference season is concluded, so what exactly was the point? Who remembers them, the stage management, the crappy sets and the autopilot ‘keynote’ speeches. The SNP got little UK wide coverage and what it did get could be measured in seconds. The conference was effectively a marginal event.
      Scotland needs to punch the British state in the guts, enough of softly softly and ‘nice’. This corrupt system needs to feel real political pain.

    164. Ross T AND Kezia D? I might have to watch that QT. from under a blanket.

    165. I assume if you bought Johnston Press you would then be liable for the £250,000,000 debt,

      if you waited till it ceased to exist you could buy it without the £250,000,000 debt,

      if it ceased to exist would it still retain its titles.

    166. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Robert Louis at 8.42

      “Sitting back, waiting and waiting for polls to somehow magically change is as stupid as brexit.”

      Exactly. The polls change when we campaign.

    167. Dorothy Devine says:

      Nana , as usual many thanks – some horrific tales in there.

      Petra ,thanks for an earlier link to the Tory peer , myopic peering from her! Also for that wonderful , persuasive letter form the glorious leader of the opposition in Holyrood – she who is being serenaded in the Guardian as the second coming.

      Some highly amusing comments btl on the martin Kettle article of a few days ago.

      One which particularly tickled me referred to all the SNP ,Green and Plaid Cymru members of the HoL – only thing which disturbed me was that the sarcasm would be missed by those south of our border.

    168. Highland Wifie says:

      Not really a surprise that the Scotsman is finally going under. If a newspaper actively alienates half of its potential market and allows mad zoomers to write frothing letters to its letters page while sticking fingers in ears and singing “la la la la la”, the end is inevitable.
      Used to be an avid reader of the Scotsman in the 1970s and 80s. Recently, finding a copy sat on the table of the rather nice hotel I was taken to for coffee, I had to turn it upside down. Couldn’t even bear to look at the front page. I nearly asked the lovely waiter to “take away that disgusting rag” but thought better of it. No point in mocking the afflicted.

    169. Luigi says:

      Robert Louis says:

      11 October, 2018 at 8:42 am

      In short, the polls for independence are not changing very much, simply because most Scots are totally unaware of what is being done.

      Indeed. I would add, Robert, that many of the so-called opinion polls released and/or featured by the media are craftily manipulated in such ways as to promote support (or manufacture the delusion of support) for the British state. What they want you to believe. Polls are used for manipulation as much as, if not more than for information.

      I appreciate that weighting of raw poll data is necessary, but this system is open to abuse. By fiddling about with weighting, you can achieve the result you want (or something close to it).

      It’s not what the media are showing you that’s important, it’s what they are deliberately not showing you (or downplaying) that is of particular interest. The SNP will have their own private poll results (sensibly keeping them away from the media). My gut feeling is that we may be around 48% YES at present, significantly higher than 2014. Not quite there yet. And as you said, the real campaign has yet to begin, so it’s all to play for.

      Even through the 2012-2104 campaign, opinion polls only started to rise for YES in the last few weeks up to the referendum. The same may happen again IMO, so it’s squeaky bum time I’m afraid. 🙂

    170. Ken500 says:

      Another unelected HoL liar is telling lies about Scotland. Claiming Scotland is subsidised, A complete and utter total lies. With the documents to prove it, A non elected cretin Nicholson is insulting people in Scotland. Totally ignorant and arrogant. Ill informed telling a pack of lies. Telling lies about how the Westminster unionists secretly and illegally took Oil and other revenues from Scotland to fund London S/E. They kept their illegal activity secret under the Offical Secret Act. Iraq, Dunblane and Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years,

      Westminster unionist central policies which left Scotland deprived of the means to improve it’s economy, illegal under every EU/UN charter. The Westminster unionists illegally thwarted Democracy in Scotland/UK and tgecwirld, Members of the HoL break the Law with impunity. Many are criminals, There appointed is anti democractic. ‘Cash fior honours’ They are a bunch of criminals appointed by their criminal unionist masters in Westminster.

      An affront to Democracy. They are a threat to democracy in the UK. The HoL should have been abolished long ago. A cess pit of anti democractic parasites. Bought ‘honours’ A total waste of public time and money.

      The House of Lords has absolutely no power. Only of delay.. They can delay Bills twice before they are passed in the HoC. Or less with negotiation. The House of Laws cannot Formula or introduce policies, it can only rubber stamp Westminster policy, delay but cannot repeal anything.

      The consultation nonsense on the UK constitution is just a nonsense. A useless talking shop of delay by a bunch of unelected privileged deluded parasites. Trying to thwart democracy in the UK and succeeding, A retirement HQ for a bunch of illogical, lying low life hypocrites. They are a complete and utter disgrace, Scotland more than pays it’s own way but has had it’s revenues abused and wasted by ignorant parasites in the South, including in the HoL. Telling a repeated load of lies to cover up.

      Corbyn that total hypocrite appointed a person to the Lords to get them in his administration. Made them a Lady Dame totally unelected, They both supposed to oppose the HoL abd want it abolished. Total lying hypocrites ruining the UK/world economy. The ex Westminster crooks Labour etc are just lying parasites of unelected privilege. Blair the warmonger ‘Cash for honours’.

      Blair and Brown who caused this mess should be put in jail. Along with Cameron, Clegg. May and the rest of them breaking International Law daily, They are a public disgrace of parasitic privileged existence while breaking every international Law abd convention, Britain is not a democracy but a failed State who have failed the people on a daily basis, An International disgrace.

      Blair and Brown who caused this mess should be in jail. Along with Cameron, Ckegg , May and the rest of them. HoL stacked with failed unionist politicians. A total disgrace who think they can interfere in Scotland’s political, social abd economic matters. They cannot and have absolutely no rights to do under EU/UN Law of rights and convention. They are breaking the Law by doing so and have no rights under Scottish/UK/EU/UN international Law. They have little power in any case. The power rest with Westminster and the Scottish Gov in Scottish matters, How the people vote under an illegal flaw political system that denies people in Scotland Demicracy, Scotland pays for Westminster unionist total criminal mismanagement,

      Vote SNP/SNP to stand up for Scotland, Vote for Independence for fairness, equality prosperity, happiness and cohesion. Vote for no other Party. Or the Westminster unionists crooks will have you. They are breaking and not enforcing the Law at every opportunity. People are sick, displaced and dying illegally because if it.

    171. Lenny Hartley says:

      Scott Finlayson yes it would still retain its titles “The Rangers” did 🙂

    172. yesindyref2 says:

      That link is to show that for that length of time covered, it HADN’T gone below 40%, so the Survation poll which it doesn’t include, with the third question about a no-deal Brexit, is the first time to show NO below 40%. Oh, here’s the poll, it’s the most recent one, it would have helped if I’d put that in as well!

      “Survation poll on Independence;

      Yes – 41% (46%)
      No – 49% (54%)
      DK – 10%

      In event of Brexit;
      Yes – 42% (50%)
      No – 42% (50%)
      DK – 17%

      In event of No Deal Brexit;
      Yes – 43% (52%)
      No – 39% (48%)
      DK – 18”

    173. jfngw says:

      The Scotsman desperate to find a buyer, I like to think of it as the Andrew Neil legacy to Scotland. These 1980’s unionists thought they could turn Scotland into England by buying Scottish titles and use them to convert Scotland into Conservatives, we sent them homeward to think again.

    174. Nana says:

      Former Chief Economist at WTO: no-deal Brexiteers are playing fast and loose with the facts

      This was on @RussianEmbassy’s website during the referendum. It’s now gone. If you signed up, it would turn your Twitter account into a bot. Anyone got any ideas on how to find out more?

      Use translator
      Article on Nato/ Russia and Hunt’s recent comments, also on Williamson’s comments which the author reports as ‘peurile’

      Today 11.30am

    175. Tinto Chiel says:

      Reading your links, Nana, made me reflect how little of all this grim news will make it onto BBC/ITV bulletins.

      So 10000 ESA claimants have died in three years? Combine this with the introduction of the abominable Universal Credit and it’s clear what the Tories are up to. I think it’s called cold-blooded murder.

      Meanwhile, Princess Eugenie spends at least £2000000 on her marriage to another nonentity.

      And life in UKOKia grinds on.

      Never mind, “Strictly” is on till Christmas.

    176. gus1940 says:

      Brillo’s Spectator strikes again with Fraser Nelson on tonight’s unbalanced QT panel

    177. Nana says:

      Alex Salmond digs up a dinosaur

      That’s all for now

    178. Fred says:

      @ Nana, thanks for the Lynx, Tommy Shepherd first class guy!

    179. Al-Stuart says:

      Hi Stu,

      O/T, But this is important enough to help shift several pecentage points from NO to YES in IndyRef2

      Johnstone Press plc have just put themselves, thier 200 titles and the Scotsman newspaper up for sale.

      Share price in 2014 was £3.92. Now it is a penny stock at just over 3p per share.

      Media reports quote £3,000,000 for Johnstone Press. Factually market capitalisation is £3.850,000. But as shares have traded as low as 2.4p and you only need 51% to control the entire 200 newspaper group, this could be done for £1,500,000.

      Sell off 90% of the regional papers and the Scotsman could well end up costing £300,000.

      Stuart, if I understand the Genesis of your creating Wings Over Scotland, it was to balance the.appalling unionist-v-independence media in Scotland.

      A crowdfunder along with a few of our experienced and able business and media supporters on the Independence side COULD very well mount a bid for Johnstone Press plc.

      But such a consortium would require a far better editor-in-chief than brillo head Andrew Neil.

      Stuart, would you run the Scotsman?

      Buddy, you have my email. Feel free to get in touch.

      WoS taking over the Scotsman would certainly be a fascinating strategic move.

      Best wishes,


    180. Ken500 says:

      The Polls are changing it is 50/50. With DK’s The Pollsters are using the Polls to manipulate public opinion and the vote, They have been censored and fined may time and arecstill being investigated, They are interfering illegally in the political system and breaking the Law. Giving poor results, esoecially in tight votes which are more unpredictable,

      The present recent Polls are out of date for an election three years away. They can slightly predict present based on past matters but they cannot predict the future. They do not have a crystal ball. The Polling industry are being used by wealthy people to make £Millions. It is a corrupt business and being investigated. They break the Law with impunity.

      The electoral commission is being investigated for breaking the Law and deviant practices. Campaigners are taking them to court and asking for a judicial review. To censor the Electoral Comission for irregular actions of non investigation.

      This Polls are being used illegally to try and manipulate people’s votes with incorrect analysis and findings. Using poor and bad methodogy. illegally using computer programmes to buy, steal or hack people’s personal data which is supposed to be protected, To influence the vote and people’s voting illegal canvassing. May and the Tories the unionist Osrties are in on it. Criminal and breaking the Law but they are using and condoning it.

      31Tories we’re overspending. To get elected. Organisers were illegally breaking the Law and overfunding campaigns for political advantage. DUP black funding. Scottish Ref illegal black funding. Over stipulated limits. Unionist Parties black funding over the limits.

      The list goes on and on. . Illegal practices for political advantage, illegal voting systems imposed with no mandate. To thwart Democracy, Stealing, hacking personal data which is supposed to be protected, For illegal influence. Westminster unionist condone and are involved in these illegal practices, The election, the IndyRef, the EU Ref should be declared nil and void because of these illegal practices.

      Democracy in the UK is a farce.

      The Brexit provisions or agreement are not know yet. The will have a major influence on the proceeding, the vote and the support for Independence. People will not vote to be made poorer and assets and public money squandered, by ignorant imbeciles people dud not vote for at Westminster. A hive of criminality and flawed personalities, Psycho bastards. Dancing like idiots. A failed State.

    181. Nana says:

      Morning Tinto, Are ye dancin?

    182. galamcennalath says:


      Just noticed something about those figures. As Brexit is introduced into the questions it makes only a slight difference to the YES vote. However, folks switch from NO to DK.

      Taking DKs out, which is what most pundits do, hides the reality that YES stays solid and NOs become uncertain. The data is usually shown to imply YES increases. That doesn’t actually happen to any large extent. So it’s good news x2 and bad news.

      The bad news is that there isn’t a shift to YES in terms of numbers of votes.

      The first good news is, Brexit is clearly injecting uncertainty into the minds of NOs.

      The second good news is subtle. We sometimes worry about YES-Leave folks. They don’t appear to be putting their anti EU stance before their anti UK stance here.

    183. jfngw says:

      It’s a flight of fancy but the thought of Wings buying the Scotsman and being Euan McColm’s boss just makes me laugh.

    184. Dr Jim says:

      Watching SKY news this morning with Adam Boulton I’m stuck by how little actual news is reported in favour of interviewing a stream of unheard of opinionated nobodies gossiping about what another opinionated *journalist*nobody has written about his opinion in a newspaper based on the opinions of somebody else who has no authorisation or power to implement any of the opinions they’re gossiping about

      Could the job of the news now be to confuse the electorate’s brain so much that gridlock shutdown of the mental processes takes place and what follows is *The walking dead* unable to make a decision on anything thus leaving the people who wield power in the secret upper echelons free to do what they want without the irritating public getting in the way by having their own opinion

      Beause how can a people form any opinion on anything when the facts of a subject are witheld leaving the public to look at faces on a TV screen and decide which one they like or trust to rescue them from from Zombieism

      So for folk watching the TV and hoping for newsworthy and informative commentary Ya might as well watch *Love Island*

    185. Dr Jim says:

      I’m guessing here:

      In the case of the NO vote shifting to Don’t know that can only be good because those people aren’t going backwards to NO again so there’s only one more way to go, but even if they stick at Don’t know the YES vote won’t drop from 50% or more leaving NO on around 40% or even less

      The only difficulty with this might be that the UK devious evil that they are might decide to impose a threshold again like in the Holyrood elections

      We know they’re *EvEl* people

    186. Legerwood says:


      Big front page story in the Herald today about a Greenpeace report into fishing industry.

      It shows that a handful of families control the bulk of the quotas. Not so much the EU screwing the fishermen more their own kind

      Worth a read if you are passing a paper shop or loitering in a supermarket. Or maybe Nana included it in one of her links .

    187. HandandShrimp says:

      While tempting to consider a crowd funder to buy the Scotsman what happened to the consortium that Alex was initially involved? This looks like their moment and they could get the title for a song.

      That said, while the Scotsman was once a fierce opponent of independence its circulation and reach is now so small that it is just haunted by the SiU Green Ink Brigade. I can’t recall it being a source for much in the way of laughs in recent months either. So even they might be feeling that the paper is on the way out.

    188. Valerie says:

      @ Nana

      Thanks for all your hard works. Lots of interesting links.

      The IMF updates and League Tables, make utterly shocking reading of the mess of UK economy. Andrew Wilson made a point of highlighting on Twitter too.

    189. Socrates MacSporran says:

      As someone who still works for The Scotsman, albeit in my specialist field of sports writing, can I say – there is still the core of a good, possibly a great newspaper in there.

      There are some excellent journalists on it, particularly in some of the specialist fields; the trouble is, as I see it, the overall management is crap, and some recent departmental managerial appointments on the Editorial side have been classic examples of the Peter Principle.

      The Scotsman, as a pro-independence, but not necessarily pro-SNP, newspaper, could be a great paper, and, in an independent Scotland, could really become: “Scotland’s newspaper.”

    190. Dr Jim says:

      Confused over Brexit? Confused over the constitution?
      Confused about anything? Phone the DUP on 555 54321Boom!

      Because they’re running the British Isles now

      The DUP don’t stand in England Wales or Scotland they are a small band of zealots from Northern Ireland who at the moment aren’t elected to anything because they don’t even have a parliament because they’re unpopular even in the small province they purport to represent that voted against their proposition to leave the EU…..and yet….this unelected (in three countries) small band of *people* not content with running one part of the UK are now running all four

      Kinda reminds you of Nigel Farage

      People in Scotland who might be swithering over Scottish Independence might want to think about that

    191. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Morning Tinto, Are ye dancin?”

      No, it’s just the way I’m standing, Nana. A grim harvest you had for us this morning. Hope you go plenty of long walks to work off your angst.

      Re reliability of polls: it seems strange there is no movement towards Yes when 100000 people or so have just marched through Edinburgh in a pro-indy march. I never thought I would see such a thing.

    192. Valerie says:

      Check out Inverclyde SNP branch. This is their billboard!

    193. Nana says:

      Morning Valerie, Brexit as we know is a shambolic mess. Trying to keep up is difficult to say the least.

      James O’Brien says it better than I could

    194. Valerie says:

      @ Dr Jim

      One of my favourite memes, and I post it regularly, to illustrate who the DUP are, and it still cracks me up.

    195. Bob Mack says:

      A little bit of history.

      Lord Carson was the leader of the Unionists just at the time of proposed home rule for S Ireland. He was an interesting guy, who had successfully prosecuted Oscar Wilde for indecency, and later demanded clemency for the same.

      Following the creation of the Republic in the South of Ireland he said “What a fool I was, as was Ulster, that we supported a Conservative Government”

      Unionists revere him and have never forgotten his words. Do you think Ms Foster will capitulate? I think not. History often repeats itself, but Unionists never forget.

    196. HandandShrimp says:

      Stu’s cup runneth over. Ross Thomson, Fraser Nelson and Kezia on QT tonight. Mike Russell and Val McDermid make up a reasonably robust counterweight to the madness.

    197. Cubby says:

      BBC Question Time tonight.

      Lying Britnats to the left of us. Lying Britnats to the right of us.

      It is standard on all British Nationalist media like the BBC when it come to politics programmes to always have a Britnat in the chair and as a minimum a majority of Britnat guests. Sometimes it is 100% Britnat guests. The chair on QT will of course also pick rabid Britnat plants who have been selected and guaranteed to be chosen to ask a question.

      It is offensive that this gerrymandered programme is taking place in the Scottish parliament.

    198. One_Scot says:

      Dr Jim, your posts always catch my eye, and I have to say you always seem to hit the mark.

    199. Dr Jim says:

      @Valerie 11.54am

      That’s a good one, I know the DUP also adhere strictly to the Noah and his magic zoo boat *facts*

    200. Robert Peffers says:

      @Valerie says: 11 October, 2018 at 11:45 am:

      ” … Check out Inverclyde SNP branch. This is their billboard!

      Brilliant, Valerie, but would someone tell that raving loony, Ayeforscotland”, that it’s a billboard not a photograph?

    201. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 11:56 (10.Oct),

      Heh, heh. I wish it was that easy to extract ourselves from the Cavern of Doom that we currently find ourselves in.

      But maybe it just needs enough of us to say it in unison. =grin=

    202. Sinky says:

      Notice BBC TV Sports news caption identifies tennis player Karl Edmumd as English complete with St Georges flag.

      But Andy Murray is British despite having never come through the British tennis system.

    203. Jack Murphy says:

      K1 mentioned in post at 1:37am:
      “……..Well worth a watch to see the impact they are having and suggestions to take the socialist agenda forward within the SNP.

      Thanks for that K1 and I’ll just add a wee bit of further info:
      It’s an interview with Chris McCusker & SNP Councillor Graham Campbell to discuss SNP Socialist Group and more.

      I remember when Graham Campbell was elected—–it was on Independence Livestream at the Count I think. 🙂

    204. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cubby says: 11 October, 2018 at 12:11 pm:

      ” … It is offensive that this gerrymandered programme is taking place in the Scottish parliament.”

      Where better to expose the chicanery, Cubby?

      Look at it this way. The British Nationalist, Westminster controlled state media, are the YES movement’s best recruiters. The AUOB, YES, SG and SNP are muzzled by the media and everything on the media is biased towards the, “British/English”, state.

      Yet in spite of all that adverse publicity and propaganda the movement towards Scottish independence is growing all the time. Just look at how the AUOB marcher numbers are continuing to increase. Now the hostile media can fiddle the figures, manipulate the opinion polls and even use misleading video & photos but they cannot manipulate what people see with their own eyes.

      People see the marches and without even thinking about it they mentally begin to question what they see on TV, hear on radio and read in their newspapers.

      Which is why, for example, the owners of the Scotsman are selling up their entire block of newspaper titles and the readership, viewing and listening audiences throughout Scotland are shrinking fast in spite of the transfusion of BBC money they recently had.

      The tide is turning without the indy campaign even being started and less and less people are believing the BBC, (British Bullshit Claptrap).

    205. Ian Brotherhood says:

      John Beattie said the Media Review will be looking at Johnston Press after the news…

    206. Bobp says:

      When the relatives of the thousands who attended the edinburgh indy march, and who maybe arent too fussed about politics either way. Would surely have their eyes opened at the complete lack of coverage about such a big event, by the msm and the state sponsored propaganda channel. Even they will start to think, what is it london is frightened of?. So a win win for the independence movement.

    207. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Socrates MacSporran @ 11:32,

      Amen to that.

      As I wrote in a previous “lost” posting, without taking anything whatever away from the crucial role of the SNP, having respected neutral pro-indy voices could be a real extra asset.

      Some folk will automatically blot out any party rep as “that essenp*e” without giving what they say a fair hearing, whereas they might be more open to a non-party person of standing saying the same thing.

      It seems to me that there are far too many people in positions of influence who know full well in their hearts what’s going on, yet still have to raise their heads above the parapet and speak out. (Historian Prof Tom Devine being a notable exception.)

      A reformed Scotsman could give them that opportunity, and perhaps encouragement too.

    208. Bobp says:

      Should have said bystanders as well.

    209. robertknight says:

      Demented Ulster Puritans about to strap Daisy May to the ducking-stool to see if she floats or sinks – either way she’s doomed!

      Where’s the popcorn? 🙂

    210. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bobp says: 11 October, 2018 at 1:15 pm

      ” … Even they will start to think, what is it london is frightened of?. So a win win for the independence movement.”

      Yes, Bobp, that is the whole point. The yoonatics found their centuries old tactics of propaganda toward anything Scottish had stopped working and they made the mistake of thinking this was just because they weren’t making out Scotland was bad enough.

      Meanwhile the SG were running Scotland better than it had ever been run in my lifetime and the voters were noticing. Note that to begin with this effect only showed in the SNP making gains at Holyrood. Then, even with only minority government at Holyrood, the voters were voting SNP for Holyrood but not too well for Westminster.

      So Westminster ramped up the lies, omissions and bias to such an extent that more voters saw the propaganda for what it was and the SNP almost swept the board with Westminster MPs and instead of backing off with the adverse propaganda Westminster ramped it up even further and the bias got even more pronounced and the Indy support keeps creeping up.

      The SNP, wisely, is not about to change a winning formula – until the time is right. Meanwhile Westminster and the Holyrood unionist alliance became transparently very much a coalition of unionists and Westminster got right out of hand in blind panic.

      When they have dug themselves deep enough into the hole of their own making and voters see that Labour’s leadership are no better than the Tories and just as toxic as unionists. They will be weaker than ever before and that will be the time for whatever surprise Nicola and the SNP have up their sleeves.

      Now I may be wrong but if Nicola is worried she sure as hell isn’t showing any signs of it. Sometimes just a little tired looking but with her workload it would be strange if she was not.

    211. Dr Jim says:

      Terrible disasters are happening throughout the world at the moment and our great *British* news services are making sure we know every detail fact and tragic death involved in them
      and when they’re done telling us all that we’re off to America to be informed all about Donald Trump and his family or if his daughter Ivanka will be the next big something of something involving something in that country

      And you know we all need to know this stuff because absolutely no well known and beloved celebrities are dying in Britain at the moment in order to NOT have to report the news from where we are

    212. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Socrates MacSporran @ 11:32,

      Amen to that.

      (Adding any more seems to keep causing the posting to “disappear” for no fathomable reason whatever, so I guess I’ll just have to leave it at that.)

    213. Al-Stuart says:

      Regarding the earlier post to…

      Crowdfund the purchase of THE SCOTSMAN Newspaper for an INDEPENDENT supporting position in the market. The Scotsman would then be run by, amongst others, Stuart Campbell (if he would accept the job).

      Thank you Socrates MacSporran for your insightful contribution. There are many, including several on the fundy wing of the movement who are all too dismissive of the idea to take over a major Scottish newspaper.

      However, with IndyRef2 likely to be won or lost on a 3% to 5% swing, surely walking straight into the living rooms, by invitation of thousands of NO voters and DON’T KNOWS is a strategically astute move?

      The headline price touted for Johnston Group plcs 200 titles at £3,000,000 is misleading. Their strengths and weaknesses can be seen by all.

      But here is food for thought in a crowdfunding initiative…

      Shares that were once £3.92 are now 3p. If the return to the ultra-low point of 2.4p happens again, this means to control the company by 51% can be as low as £1,500,000.

      Once bought, many of the 200 titles can be sold back to the local communities from whence they were bought.

      There is a lot of due diligence on what this would raise, but there is a distinct possibility to end up having an independent group own a new, revitalised Independence supporting Scottish newspaper that is long established…

      and targets the very people we need to move from NO to YES.

      The National newspaper is brilliant, but NO voters and DON’T KNOWS simply do not buy it in any significant numbers. The National preaches to the already converted.

      Whereas The Scotsman will cause a huge wave if it follows that remarkable initiative of the Sunday Herald and support Independence.

      Commercially there is a huge slice of Scotland 48% looking to buy a traditional, long established Scottish newspaper.

      Any thoughts from Wings Over Scotland? Stu? WoS readers?

    214. Maria F says:

      Nana says:
      11 October, 2018 at 11:52 am
      “James O’Brien says it better than I could”

      Sadly, James O’Brien, like most in England with access to a microphone or a news article, appears to go through all sort of acrobatics to pretend that 35 of the MPs sitting in Westminster are not SNP. In my calculator 35 is a bigger number than 10 and a bigger number than the 12 LibDem MPs. Actually, it is bigger than both combined. The SNP is the 3rd biggest party in the UK Parliament, the biggest party in Scotland and in terms of the number of members, quite possibly by now has overtaken the tories. Still no mention of the SNP but plenty of mention of labour and tories and “2 party politics”, which only applies to England. Completely ignoring the political party that holds the biggest share of Scotland’s seats in Westminster, Holyrood and the Parliament of Europe is frankly insulting and for me completely discredits the otherwise interesting rant.

      While agreeing with the presenter in much of what he was saying to start with, from half of his rant to the end I was specifically waiting for a single mention of the SNP, as it could very well be who holds the balance of power, by holding more than 3 times more seats than the DUP and having its own agenda to follow. In addition, Scotland has its own functional parliament and government. NI at the moment does not have a functional government so 10 votes are just that, 10 votes. In the case of the SNP, however, it will be 35 votes plus the weight of the Scottish government and the entire Scottish parliament.

      Yet, no mention whatsoever. Clearly the form is for Scotland not to even be given the regards of a region in the mind of some and therefore Scotland’s political representatives are treated as if were invisible. I wonder if we should start doing the same here with regards to England’s politics. May be we could start to ignore 591 MPs and only exclusively focus in the 59 MPs that concern us. We can eliminate from our talks the entire government cabinet too, as not a single MP from a Scotland’s seat sits in there. And of course all the opposition. Perhaps this tactic of burying the head in the sand expecting the SNP and the pro independence movement to go away works in England, so maybe we could give it a go here to with the hope that those 591 MPs go away and only the 59 that legitimately represent us remain.

    215. Bob Mack says:

      The Scotsmen and other titles may be bought by Custos Group who already hold 20% of Johnston Press. They are big enough to gamble on it.

    216. Marcia says:

      Instead of buying lottery tickets perhaps buying Johnstone Press shares instead might seem a better bet. You might still end up with nothing but maybe an influence in this ailing enterprise.

    217. Frank Gillougley says:


      Here’s my thought, and it is just an obvious thought as a WoS reader.
      – I am not sure that The Rev. Stuart Campbell is, or would ever wish to be, Citizen Kane.

      (Far be it for me to even begin to think I could speak on his behalf! – so I’ll apologise now, mea culpa!)

      Anyway, all the best – Dismiss nothing prior to investigation.

    218. Re question tlme the answer is don’t watch it I gave up a long time ago although I must admit I like to hear. F.Nelsons east end of Glasgow accent. ..???

    219. Aikenheed says:

      Al Stuart
      This is worth a serious look. However would a concerted drive to buy up shares put the price up and by how much? Is there time for a slow buy up.

    220. Chick McGregor says:

      @Mike Cassidy

      Love that guy, even if he does exaggerate things a wee bit from time to time.

    221. Doug says:

      I’m sharing this thought because the idea terrifies me but I worry the EU and UK haven’t thought through what is happening in Northern Ireland regards the Backstop post Brexit.

      Is the proposed deal to keep NI in the Customs Union/Single Market to avoid having a border with ROI basically saying that the threat of violence has more political weight than the ballot box?

      NI voted 56% to remain and gets to effectively stay in (And thanks to Irish Citizenship means folks can get an EU passport).

      Scotland voted 62% to remain and will likely get thrown out of the EU, Single Market and Customs Union.

      Now Northern Ireland has a recent history to leverage to get the best deal they can for them. Scotland of course threw away our leverage in 2014.

      But logically the Northern Ireland Solution suggests that says if there is a threat of violence if you don’t get what you voted for – in the end you get what you voted for? Does this not send a message that the threat of violent action can bring dividends as the UK Government will respect your situation more?

      The idea of this terrifies me as I don’t for one second want any violence but I worry that if Scotland doesn’t get what it voted for at the ballot box with brexit but Northern Ireland does there is now an example of the threat of violence working.

      I just don’t think Westminster have realised how big a can of worms this could be in the future.

    222. Chick McGregor says:


      Their Swedish aren’t they?

    223. Luigi says:

      Robert Peffers says:

      11 October, 2018 at 1:44 pm

      Now I may be wrong but if Nicola is worried she sure as hell isn’t showing any signs of it. Sometimes just a little tired looking but with her workload it would be strange if she was not.

      Does anyone else get the feeling that the FM is about to hit the British establishment with something they never saw coming?

    224. Giving Goose says:


      The British Establishment will probably not allow the Scotsman to be purchased by a Pro Scottish Independence group or person.

      The BritNat Establishment would declare that any such purchase would not be in the “Public Interest” and I can imagine the howls of complaint from the BritNat media in a mass stage managed event to manipulate the public mind.

    225. Macart says:


      Or something they know is coming, but can’t prevent? 😎

    226. jfngw says:

      @Frank Gillougley

      I don’t know, I have it on the good authority of a well known Scottish journalist that he owns a sledge called Rosebud! And journalists never lie, so I have read anyway.

    227. Robert Peffers says:

      YouTube clip from 23 hours ago:-

      take from it what you will

    228. sandy says:

      Tinto Chiel 11.41.

      Polls are taken over a much longer period than 5 days.

    229. Greannach says:

      If the Scotsman is bought over, what on earth will the Green Ink Gang do without the house journal? Where will the terminally depressed and gloomy send their letters?

      I know there are lots of other papers gagging to print Yawnion Jill’s rantings and ravings, but I’m sure tears wil be shed at the passing of a Great British paper of pish.

    230. Lenny Hartley says:

      Nobody in their right mind would buy the Scotsman or any other title owned by Johnston Press, they have debt of over £220 million so you would be liable for the debt. Better to wait until they go tits up and buy it cheap from the receiver sans debt.

    231. Fred says:

      Anent these millionaire Fish Mafia families who control Scotland’s fishery, one of whom has been named as Buchan. Is this the wee oddity who appeared in a photo-op with Ruth Davidson & looked as if he just dropped by the market for fish-heids for his cat?

    232. Robert Peffers says:

      @Al-Stuart says: 11 October, 2018 at 2:04 pm:

      ” … Crowdfund the purchase of THE SCOTSMAN Newspaper for an INDEPENDENT supporting position in the market. The Scotsman would then be run by, amongst others, Stuart Campbell (if he would accept the job).”

      You have to be kidding!

      If we, the yes movement, Wings, the SNP or AUOB, I’ll tell you exactly what would happen. The present readership would vanish faster than an ex-Labour MP on his/her way to the HOL.

      The current MSM, every dead tree paper in Scotland, (bar one – which would hate it as it would be in direct competition), would start rubbishing it as being an SNP biased paper owned by the SNP and every state controlled broadcaster would claim it was biased and the Scotsman is so badly tainted now that few would change to be readers.

      The readership would thus be only those who crowdfunded it, and unless they were not crowdfunding it for someone else, would be the shareholders. If they weren’t the shareholders and it became a success who would reap the benefits?

      So just as Rev Stu avoids being an SNP card carrying member for a very good reason Stu will avoid taking on the Scotsman.

      Newspapers are commercial companies and sell shares on the open market. Think about that.

    233. Thepnr says:

      Has the relentless propaganda and outright ignorance of those who should know better ever got you down> I’m talking of such as Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne (half Scottish) who tweeted:

      “Important for sensible Scotland to recall who pays their bills;SE ENGLAND and the City of London.”

      What about outright lies like the oft quoted “Scotland would have to join the Euro”.

      Day after day after day the propaganda, lies and slagging off of all things Scottish and SNP never halts, a constant diet of too wee, too poor, too stupid and SNP Baad. No wonder so many still believe it and it certainly has gotten me down on occasion. It couldn’t fail to really.

      Then think of the pressure Nicola Sturgeon is under facing with the same crap but magnified 10 fold on everything she does.

      Jon Snow the other day interviewing her for C4 was appealing in his BritNattery.

      NS: “We in 2014 had a constitutionally agreed process and that is the way, in my view these decisions should be taken and when they’re taken and if Scotland voted for Independence, in that context then I believe the European Union both should and would accept that outcome.” I met the..

      JS: (interrupts) “Although they have said they wouldn’t”

      NS: “Well that, I’m not sure that’s true actually…”

      JS: (interrupts) “Or indicated they wouldn’t”

      NS: “I’m not, I’n not strictly, entirely…

      JS: (interrupts) “and Catalonia suggests they wouldn’t”

      NS: “…sure that’s true.”

      So if this relentless bullshit from the media has ever got you feeling a bit down, then spare a thought for the FM who faces it by the bucket load and yet still manages to get on the day job.

      The pressure she is under must be horrendous and her strength of character enormous. She’s a true leader and if she is looking a bit tired then I’m not in the least surprised.

    234. Marie Clark says:

      Lugi @ 2.50 & Macart @ 3.02, yes me too. I got the impression from listening to the FM speech, that she knows exactly what she is doing, and has something up her sleeve to take us forward.

      Hope I’m right, but I do trust oor wee Nicola to do the right thing for Scotland.

    235. Thepnr says:

      Looks like a bit of the reality of a hard Brexit will become obvious for commuters in Kent as from now. No need to wait until 29th March as the M26 will be closed overnight for the next 3 months.

      Road bosses admitted the M26 would be closed overnight for three months when pushed by Kent Live on Tuesday (October 9) but they weren’t entirely honest why.

      Highways England initially said the closures would start from October 15 to allow “work on the central reservation”.

      But last night surprised motorists found it was already shut.

      And now it has emerged the plans were actually snuck out to allow the Department for Transport to turn it into a lorry park if there’s a no-deal Brexit.

      Kent voted 59% for Leave. oh dear.

    236. frogesque says:

      @Robert Peffers: 3.47

      Agreed, the only way I would support purchase of The Scotsman would be to hold it under the water into perpetuity.

      Buy it, bury it, never to disgrace Scotland again!

    237. Referendum1707 says:

      I don’t have a good feeling about this idea of buying the Hootsmon, massive debt burden etc maybe better to just let it die or be taken over by some new bunch of britnat idiots who would almost certainly lose anything they’d put into it.

    238. Collie says:

      What happened to the consortium that Alex Salmond was involved with regarding purchasing the Scotsman?

    239. Cubby says:

      Let the Britnat papers die out in Scotland. Let them just be part of Scotlands history not future.

      Let the UK die out and just like the British empire be relegated to a part of Scotlands history.

    240. Robert Peffers says:

      Here is a red hot news item just now breaking on YouTube:-

    241. Thepnr says:

      Some more from ITV now on the M26 closure plans to turn it into a giant lorry park after Brexit in the event of No Deal.

      “The M26 works started last night. I wrote to (Mr Grayling) in April asking whether or not this would happen.

      “I was assured the works were not planned and only yesterday was it confirmed to me that Highways England had said that is exactly what was planned, despite having told me the reverse a week earlier.”

      He urged Mr Grayling to explain how the planning permission was granted with “no consultation”.

      So who knew that Tory Ministers would tell great big porkies even to one of their own Tory MP’s? No consultation even on planning, no involvement of the community or their MP.

      Sorry if this seems like gloating but this is what they voted for, so will need to suck it up. You reap what you sow.

      Plucky Kent folk with memories of the Blitz and a Greater England won’t take this lying down, or will they? They’ll have “taken back control” after all, which is what they wanted.

    242. Gary45% says:

      Hootsmon going tits up.
      “It shat the bed, hell Fuc%ING mend it.”
      Wee failed “Tory” Buchan, deep sea fisherman!!!???
      Get a fleet of boats in Brexit Shitania, rent them out the the gullible. kerching£££££.
      Avoid skate if you can. Lonely days at sea, when even yadafty would look like page 3.
      Mmmmm, mibees naw on the last bit.

    243. Colin Alexander says:

      If the DUP pull the plug on big Theresa’s Tory Govt and it ends up triggering a General Election:

      We already have the position of the UK Govt and Tory and Labour Parties who would form the next UK Govt( whether you agree with their assertion or not is not the point):

      Scotland’s (sovereign) people cannot be allowed to democratically decide if they want to leave / end the Union, unless we give permission – and we won’t give permission.

      So, democracy and self-determination is being withheld from Scotland’s people. Surely that cannot be acceptable to anyone who cares one iota about democracy and self-determination, whether pro-Union or pro-independence?

      On that basis, if there is a General Election: The SNP must stand on a Scottish sovereignty manifesto:

      The election of a majority of SNP MPs will be a democratic mandate for Scotland to recall its MPs from the UK Parliament, returning the exercise of Scottish sovereignty to the Scottish Parliament.

      Where we go from there would then be a democratic matter for the people of Scotland.

      e.g. Full indy, (stupid, pathetic SNP indy-lite semi-UNION version having already been rejected by UK Govt and UK political parties.


      at the very least: Scotland remains in the Union for now, but constitutional / Union matters must be ratified by the Scottish Parliament eg Brexit, changes to devolution, until such times as a majority of the people of Scotland vote for full indy. This would probably happen very quickly as the UK Govt would probably refuse to recognise Scotland’s sovereignty being operated from the Scottish Parliament.
      As to accept it would kill stone dead the myth of UK Parliamentary sovereignty.

    244. Nana says:

      UK’s proposed legal relationship with EU would leave ECJ in charge, lawyer says

      MichelBarnier clearly said that the Chequers deal is dead” says former international trade negotiator @JasonJHunter as sources reveal that up to 30 @UKLabour MPs are preparing to back @Conservatives’ #Brexit deal.

      MP’s fury over ‘no-deal’ Brexit plan to turn M26 into ‘parking lot’

    245. Thepnr says:

      Local Tory MP “takes back control” with all too obvious results.

      The news emerged as the furious local MP told the Commons that Grayling and Highways England had assured him and constituents that no works were planned, up until Wednesday when the closures started.

      Tugendhat said: “It’s come to a pretty pass when a member finds out that works have begun on a motorway to turn that motorway into a parking lot without consultation either with the local community or indeed with surrounding members.

    246. Legerwood says:

      Nana @ 11.11 am

      Thought you would have done it but did not have time to check. Had to rush my husband into hospital this morning – 3rd time in 6 weeks so stress off the scale.

    247. Robert Peffers says:

      Here’s a real strange one I just dug up from YouTube.

      It is from RT USA. Look who RT USA have dug up to interview.

      It really is comedy gold. Cut the Bag hasn’t got a look in:-

    248. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 17:01:

      stupid, pathetic SNP indy-lite version

      SNP? Nope – that was your earlier proposition.

      One of many, all mutually contradictory. Currently you’re the self-professed “instant sovereignty” prophet in the wilderness. Tomorrow, who knows…?

      Give it up, Coco, we don’t have goldfish memories here.

    249. Nana says:

      OBR likens potential no-deal Brexit impact to three-day week

      Prof. Alan Sked – “If Theresa May doesn’t want to do the Canada or Norway option and she is told that Chequers really is dead by Brussels, then it becomes more and more like no deal.

      Ivan Rogers – lecture at Trinity college

      From the Reign of Terror dynamic of Brexit “revolution”, to failure by UK politicians to understand the fundamentals of EU law and the EU itself, to the naïveté of the @iealondon approach to trade deals.

    250. Nana says:

      Sorry Pnr, didn’t see your links.

      one more from me

      Can’t be trusted, not now, not ever!

    251. Nana says:


      Sorry to read that Legerwood, take care.

    252. Meindevon says:

      Re Stu taking over the Scotsman… even if he has no interest please can we all just start the rumour.

      Phone the BBC quick ask their opinion on the idea. You never know it could become a question on tonight’s ‘Question Time ‘.

      That would get them running around like headless chickens.

    253. Gary45% says:

      The only sad, sorry, unbelievable/believable outcome from this Brexit affair will be the UK as we know it is FU%%Ed. Happy days in Scotland but there are a lot of decent Southern cousins who are Fuc%ed the same as us.
      Had a great conversation with a lady from Yorkshire yesterday, Southern Remainers are RAGING.
      It’s high time the pig ignorant WM government opened their eyes, rather than feather their own nests.
      Brexit “We know it doesn’t make sense”
      Boris Mogg Farage is still a cunt, even more so in Spain.
      I would have added Gove, but No one knows who he is.
      Mes Bo de fer.

    254. JLT says:

      RE : The Scotsman

      I must admit, the debate over The Scotsman newspaper, while intriguing (as in …somehow, Wings / a wealthy nationalist buys it over), I do agree with Robert Peffers that it would be a fairly dangerous path to go down, especially those suggesting Wings having a hand in it. The minute Wings was seen funding it, the rest of the media would be howling with fury and gunning for it.

      Personally, if Alex Salmond has a consortium in the wings, then leave it with them. I believe it is possible to change the political direction of the Scotsman, since the market is already saturated with ‘Unionist’ papers. Possibly, having a more ‘balanced’ newspaper that is fair in its commentary could succeed where it had failed before (having nutters like McColm and Torrance bear-baiting 50% of the population didn’t help).

      Personally, I hope Alex’s consortium are revived and do go for it. Along with The National and the various indy-websites such as Wings, it means the roots of an alternative ‘Scottish’ news media is taking place. It’s something we really need. While websites are great, newspapers are more public and liable to catch the eye of the public as they go about their daily business.

      It’s a debate which is rather interesting to ponder.

    255. If the lady says the SE and Westminster fund Scotland well I would point out it is with Scottish money that they do it with after they have stolen the bulk of it for the SE and Westminster

    256. Thepnr says:

      Brexit, who cares! Not the plucky true Brits busy getting organised for the bid day. We don’t care about stinking Brexit.

      So tomorrow the Royal family and ever trusty BBC will ride to the rescue, blow those trumpets!

      Princess Eugenie wedding: Baking and bunting ahead of big day

    257. heraldnomore says:

      Stu, any chance of you having a 3Blokes in a Pub session with Graham Hughes?

      Go on, make it so. Please.

    258. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think you understand the situation perfectly and I think Westminster are aware of the risk they are taking. The cultural tradition of British nationalists is one of colonial imperialism, which is hard to give up, especially if one is unaware of its influence on social character. Doubly so if the media have been poking right-wing English nationalism with a pointy stick for a few years.

      Review Article – The State of Scottish Imperial Historiography

      Within the last thirty years, the study of imperial history has made a remarkable resurgence, recovering from its nadir in the 1980s. One of the reasons for this recovery, in terms of interest levels and publications, has been the ability of the discipline to reinvent itself. This is partially due to a consensus to largely abandon the traditional focus of examining a fixed relationship between the British Isles as a whole and the various colonies. An alter native put forward more recently has been a ‘four nations’ approach echoing both a general loosening of political and cultural ties across the United Kingdom as well as non-imperial-orientated histories of the British Isles by Hugh Kearney and Frank Welsh.1

      This gave historians of each nation – England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales – the opportunity to assess their own historical relationship with the British Empire. It is only since the 1990s that a strong Scottish imperial historiography has developed, which is surprisingly multifaceted. Two of the principal drivers of this historiography have undoubtedly been T.M. Devine and John M. Mackenzie. Devine’s Scotland’s Empire has provided Scottish history with its first truly academic reflection on the subject, while Mackenzie’s work has shed crucial light on the continuing importance of Scottish national identity amongst Scots who served the empire.2

    259. Collie says:

      JLT 5.46PM

      RE: The Scotsman

      Very interesting post.

      Can you imagine have TWO Indy supporting newspapers being printed daily?

      And what would BBC Scotland do during their papers review every morning? It’s bad enough trying to get then to recognise the National, nevermind another.

      Gary Robertson would be having kittens.

    260. Capella says:

      @ Legerwood – hope life calms down a little for you. It is stressful when a partner is ill.

      @ Robert Peffers – that video was a shock – George Galloway spouts the usual Labour rubbish about how the “British working class” are going to rise up and save us all from this neo-liberal hell.

      Well it’s mainly the English working class who voted Leave to take back control and keep all those pesky foreigners out. Some show of international working class solidarity there. Their fury when their jobs all disappear anyway will be something to behold.

    261. Clootie says:

      ….let the Scotsman die. It is fully deserved and very fitting. How could you ever trust it?

    262. Sinky says:

      Channel Four news and UK media big on DUP issues but no mention of Scotland and our distictive immigration problems.

    263. Breeks says:

      JLT says:
      11 October, 2018 at 5:46 pm

      RE : The Scotsman

      I must admit, the debate over The Scotsman newspaper, while intriguing…

      The Scotsman has destroyed itself.

      It’s traditional quality was underemined by it’s bias towards Unionism, (take a bow Andrew Neil), and now that it is floundering, it is either damned to it’s established trajectory if it remains a Unionist “pamphlet”, yet it will be equally damned (whether it merits it or not) if a pro-Independence consortium buys it over.

      Frankly, the best hope I see for the Scotsman is to curl up and go into hibernation until Scotland has established itself as an Independent Sovereign Nation, and has begun to audit what traditions, customs and heritage can be disentangled and salvaged from the defunct Union.

      Perhaps then, the Scotsman will not be “conflicted” by the miopic interests of its Unionist paymasters, and it can start to rebuild the paper’s objectivity and integrity from scratch.

      The big question is, is it worth it? Or shouldn’t a new Independence broom sweep clean? I suppose that really depends on what the Scotsman does from here on out…

      If we can claim back our sovereignty from this grasping perfidious Union, then perhaps we can reclaim a reconditioned Scotsman from the same malaise.

      There is hope. I have a nostalgic affection for the Scotsman of old, whereas I would have no such qualms whatsoever about seeing the back of the BBC.

    264. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 11 October, 2018 at 6:29 pm:

      ” @ Robert Peffers – that video was a shock – George Galloway spouts the usual Labour rubbish about how the “British working class” are going to rise up and save us all from this neo-liberal hell. “

      Oops! I see you got the shocking bit but missed the really humorous bit – The video was produced by RT’s USA branch.

      In the UK RT is pushing the ideas that Westminster right wing will leave the EU and the UK will suffer and that the United Kingdom is about to become two independent kingdoms and even seems to side with the left leaning SNP, this suits Russian Propaganda in the UK just fine.

      Their USA branch is pushing the propaganda that when the UK quits the EU the left wing Labour Party will return to power and that suits the Russian Propaganda just fine but there is not a word that the UK is on the brink of splitting into two independent kingdoms.

      I found it cynical that RT has different lines for the UK and the USA to play to the fears of the right wings in each RT branch area.

    265. Phil says:

      Clootie says: 11 October, 2018 at 6:55 pm

      “….let the Scotsman die. It is fully deserved and very fitting. How could you ever trust it?

      If Leslie was to buy it!

    266. Rock says:

      Ken500 says:
      11 October, 2018 at 10:24 am

      “Democracy in the UK is a farce.”

      Never was a truer sentence written.

      Knowing this, why you are hell bent on bringing this farce to the Scottish parliament with your beloved “First Past the Post” voting system, the very system that makes democracy in the UK a farce?

      Your repeated claim that there would have been an SNP government earlier with FPTP is factually false. The SNP only managed to win because of list MSPs.

      I would rather have a “weak” democratic coalition government than undemocratic “strong” governments with barely 40% of the vote.

      There would never have been “landslide” victories for Thatcher and Blair, and the illegal wars you often mention, if there had been Proportional Representation at Westminster.

      No swearing in your response please.

    267. galamcennalath says:

      ” FRANCE was asked by Jersey and Guernsey if the nation would be able to act for them in Brexit negotiations, French media has reported. “

      Interesting twist

      Perhaps Scotland could ask Ireland or Denmark to speak for us in Brexit negotiations? The UK sure as Hell doesn’t!

      Constitutionally, of course, Jersey’s status is quite different from Scotland’s. Sadly.

      For one thing, Jersey has the good fortune to not be part of the UK.

    268. galamcennalath says:

      The most useful asset under the Scotsman brand would be the domain name and website.

      The dead tree scroll will wither away to nothing.

    269. Meg merrilees says:

      So much to discuss on the thread tonight:

      I don’t think Stu should buy the Scotsman – too much debt attached to it.

      Yes we need to increase the presence of an Indy supporting newspaper to counterbalance the other titles but if we try to take over the Scotsman, we will split the support for the National and risk losing that title as well as not having enough buyers to keep afloat a relaunched Scotsman.

      Let it fold – it’s one fewer title to spout British Nationalist lies.

      Di anyone hear an interview on R4 just before 7.00 am – the Lord who is pushing throughout the new Act of Union Bill was blabbering on in his clipped vowels about how there is …”currently a Constitutional Injustice and this is what we are addressing” – Aye Right!

      DUP seem to be really grumpy tonight – pictures of Arlene look very unhappy. Maybe Treeza is about to fling them to the lions – Worrying time for N. Ireland and possible rise of violence again.

      Next week is going to be a roller-coaster of a week – get the popcorn ready and if you haven’t already got them, buy a pair of waterproof shoes. We might be out campaigning before the end of the month!

    270. Cubby says:

      Rock = the most boring boring British Nationalist ever to haunt Wings. Just cuts and pastes the same crap day after day. The Rocks brain is covered with moss.

    271. yesindyref2 says:

      For me in Indy Ref 1, for most people it went 1). NO we can’t govern ourselves, we can’t afford it, we’re better as we are to 2). I like the idea of Indy but there’s a lot of problems, and too much “it’ll be alright on the night”, I don’t know really. to 3). YES, why not? Let’s go for it.

      I saw a couple online going through those stages as well as face to face ones. Becoming staunch campaigners themselves. So YES went from 25% to 45% (I don’t go with the 28% start the high heidyins go on about, it was 25% from the polls and social attitude surveys).

      Well here we are, with NO at just 39% with Brexit factored in, and 18% already at don’t know, even without a proper campaign. That’s a potential 61% YES already, and no reason why it can’t be a reality – and even way more.

      There’s a difference this time I think, the SNP kept YES at arms length in Indy Ref 1 with YES Scotland, because a main reason they got an overall majority in 2011 was because they governed well and people were impressed – including a whole load of NO voters who voted SNP in 2011. Well, that’s no longer the case, and I think the SNP will be able to go hell for leather in Indy Ref 2, and in fact there are constant signs of that from Sturgeon herself.

      It’s going to be a different short and sharp campaign. It’s Texas Hold ’em and it’s all in, winner takes all.

    272. yesindyref2 says:

      I think most of us know we have to wait to make sure there isn;t a snap general electon, to make sure Brexit goes ahead, to see that the terms actually are, and to let it all sink in to people.

      But the image in my mind is the massed ranks of the Independence movement, with the likes of Russell saying we have to pick the right time, Brown saying we need to invent a sharper axe, various people saying we need to chop down trees and have a cosy meal and invent paper to write on, others saying it’s a dreich day let’s leave it for a few years.

      And then there’s General Sturgeon out in front with her back to the enemy, hands on hips, staring back at her troops, and saying “What the feck are you waiting for?”.

    273. Marie Clark says:

      That’s a pretty picture of Nicola that you paint there Yesindyref2. Aye it’s a confusing time for all of us, as we just don’t know what is going to happen. It’s beginning to sound as though NI is about to be thrown under the bus to get the Maybot some kind of deal. It’s disgraceful to think that the best part of two years has been wasted just with the tories fighting among themselves, and they are still at it. Hard Brexit, blind Brexit, total fudge, GE, take your pick, I wouldn’t like to call it. We need to hold for the moment, but I think that when Indyref2 comes it could be very quick. I’m convinced that the FM has a plan from her speech at the SNP conference. She’s a very shrewd lady, and we have to trust her.

      Re the Scotsman, no, just no. Let it die, leave it alone wingers.

      Ledgerwood, sorry to hear about your husband being taken ill. Look after yourself and keep strong, I hope all will be well. Good luck.

    274. Legerwood says:

      Nana @ 5.36 pm and Capella @ 6.29pm

      Thank you. My husband seems to be testing NHS Scotland to its limit but it comes up trumps every time although they did sort of blot their copybook tonight by giving him a Tunnocks tea cake!

    275. yesindyref2 says:

      @Marie Clark
      I’m being a little unfair on Keith Brown, he wants the SNP to be ready for campaigning for a General Ejection, as well as Indy Ref 2. It gives a picture of a leisurely overhaul of the SNP but then he’s just as aware of the possibility of a snap GE in November as the rest of us – so it gives both the same urgency. And Russell of course is doing the proper thing, representing all of Scotland, in his constant very frustrating but forceful Brexit talks, which show the SG has exhausted all possibilities. Sturgeon is much misrepresented in the MSM, I’ve seen nothing to worry me, quite the contrary.

    276. Dr Jim says:

      People have more or less stopped trolling the FM with financial stupidity and she’s only being trolled by the sectarian bigoted zealots and the sex nuts now

      ….although it doesn’t seem like it that’s actually an improvement
      An awfy lot from Ayreshire though, is there a *we hate the FM* club there or something?

    277. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      No, I can’t see Stu taking on any newspaper, since (among many other reasons) it would rob him of his independent “observer” status.

      But I’m surprised (well, gobsmacked really) at all those voices who would rather see a BritNat paper go down than have it convert to becoming pro-indy. As if an increase in daily press support of 100% is somehow not worth the bother?? And all it seems because the other BritNat papers would be ever so slightly upset about it?



      And besides, as someone rightly observed upthread, a paper which has access to readers who are not already dedicated converts. The very people we need to reach most.

      Not an undertaking for the financially faint-hearted, it’s true, but a pure gift for the developing campaign, I would have thought. A no-brainer, even.

    278. t42 says:

      “Dr Jim says:
      Terrible disasters are happening throughout the world at the moment”

      and spare a thought for guardian readers tonight facing the inconvenience of Patisserie Valerie closing down.

    279. Greannach says:

      Has Kelly MSP entered the competition yet?

    280. Cubby says:

      RobertJ Sutherland. @8.47

      That worked really well with the Sunday Herald!!!!!

      The Britnat papers are dying. Put them out their misery and stop buying them. If you must have a paper in your life then buy the National/Sunday National.

    281. Terence callachan says:

      With regards the Scotsman newspaper, it is a business , it follows the line that the owners of that business choose, forget about fair and honest reporting because it is not a priority, the owners see the long term profitability of the business as being served best by supporting Westminster .
      There is no such thing as fake news
      If it’s fake ,it’s not news
      News is a report of something that actually happened its real it’s not fake
      I think that the people that own the Scotsman own other businesses that benefit from the support the Scotsman gives to Westminster ,it’s the reason they are prepared to sacrifice the Scotsman , they will keep undermining Scotland right up until Scotland becomes independent ,they have nothing to lose .
      We can say the same for many many of those people including MP,s in holyrood who benefit from supporting Westminster and see nothing wrong in doing down Scotland and its people if they can get a good salary and all the trimmings that go with it.
      Notice how few British nationalists you actually know of, where are they all ? They,re hiding , they don’t want to be known ,that’s why you see about twenty or so at the AUOB marches standing there with their Union Jack flags and some of that twenty don’t even live in Scotland !!
      Why do they hide ? It’s because they think they can go unnoticed and carry on as usual once Scotland is independent but it will be difficult for them to hide forever ,sooner or later they will come out of hiding in a last ditch effort to shout us down ,they will literally go down shouting and screaming ,protesting against a fairer Scotland,protesting against improvements to the tax system and social security system.
      I look forward to that day when I will stand at the roadside and watch the British nationalists march with their banners saying Scotland is too poor too stupid too small and incapable of independence
      I look forward to that day when we can see the people in our communities who are prepared to follow those banners
      I look forward to it because it will be plastered all over the news and they will be able to see for themselves on BBC Scotland and STV just how stupid and hopeless they are.

    282. Robert Peffers says:

      Wow! Here’s a real duzy – Ken Clarke makes SHOCK claim Brexiteers are ‘right wing nationalists’. Question now is are they English Nationalists or British Nationalists?

      You couldn’t make it up. Scottish Nationalists proven right by an arch Tory Grandee

    283. Bobp says:

      Dr jim 8.46pm Ah ayrshire, the unionist bigot shire of Scotland. And i should know, i lived there long enough.

    284. frogesque says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland: 8.47.

      Look what happened to The Sunday Herald when it changed horses and became a Unionist rag.

      Indy supporters voted with their feet and unionists just laughed at since they were already well served.

      Same, but in the opposite direction would happen to The Scotsman.

      Truth is the dead tree press is a dinosaur scraping around for morsels. I would rather see a properly funded on line news, radio and TV setup with complete freedom and neutrality.

    285. Liz g says:

      My best to your husband for a speedy recovery.
      And mind and look after yourself too,sometimes it’s harder on those at home keeping it all together X…

    286. Petra says:

      Phew, what a job getting through this thread today. Loads of great links and fantastic comments.

      @ Nana ….. So many links of interest Nana. Too many to cover just now however the Greenpeace fishing expose is excellent (8:44am). A small number of influential, corrupt people calling the shots.

      @ Robert P ….. Thanks for the Barnier video that you posted this morning (7:04am), Robert. Clear and concise up to date report.

      And of course the RT video with the know it all, schizophrenic George Galloway spouting a load of old codswallop (5:22pm). He detests the Westminster Government (even under Blair and Brown), but we’re expected to suck it up. He also expects the Scots to hang around to see if Corbyn gets into power and then what? Another abysmal Westminster leader having additional (Brexit) problems to deal with. What a recipe for REAL disaster. They had nearly 70 years to prove themselves in Scotland and did nought. Less than nought. We won’t forget either the McCrone Report, our stolen seas and the Iraq War, to name but a few of the 1001 reasons as to why we should avoid the Labour Party like the plague.

      And IndycarGordonRoss (11:03am) …. NIrish border plan, lol. Have any preparations been made to keep out terrorists, human traffickers and foreigners in general? Doubt it. And a new Scottish Constitution being constructed by a number of people including Prof Mark MacNaught and Common Weal. Great to know that so many people are beavering away behind the scenes.

      @ Legerwood ……. Sorry to hear of the stress that you’re under Legerwood and truly hope that your husband’s health improves soon X

      @ Galamcennalath …… It looks as though the Channel Island fishermen don’t trust Westminster to strike a decent deal for them. Surprise, surprise. I wonder when the penny will drop here in Scotland? Have they sat down and worked out who exactly is going to buy their fish, etc, post Brexit? Then again Nana’s Greenpeace link highlights what’s going on behind the scenes.

      @ The Scotsman …. Stu, et al, as owner of the Scotsman would go down like a lead balloon, imo. He’s doing a grand … successful … job on here. There’s over 120,000 SNP members and hundreds of thousands more who support Independence and yet I’ve come across people who’ve never heard of the National. Maybe we should focus on raising their sales.

    287. Macart says:


      If a body had to make a guess…

      Procedure outlined – legal and official process followed – appropriate action taken – inevitable reaction is the result.

      If a body had to guess ‘course. 😎

    288. Jock McDonnell says:

      Look, it’s Israel & Caesar!nia, not feckin France, ffs show some commitment, passion & courage

    289. yesindyref2 says:

      We need to look to the future, Independent Scotland will need newspapers, to cover the news. We’ll also need the equivalent of the pink Times, as well as a stock exchange!

    290. Robert Peffers says:

      @Legerwood says: 11 October, 2018 at 8:44 pm:

      ” … My husband seems to be testing NHS Scotland to its limit but it comes up trumps every time although they did sort of blot their copybook tonight by giving him a Tunnocks tea cake!”

      Best wishes to you and your Husband, Legerwood. Having gone through the loss of two wives to different illness’ I know the emotional trauma better than most.

    291. Cubby says:


      There used to be a stock exchange in Glasgow.

    292. sam says:

      Are the Scots idiots more idiotic than the English idiots?

      Sir Ivan Rogers might have something useful to say about that.

      “Hence the extraordinary – indeed I would say culpable – naïveté we have seen almost daily for 2 years. Faced by a UK which essentially wants all the benefits of unchanged free trade from its EU membership days, with none / few of the obligations, the EU repeatedly says: “that is just never going to be on offer, and you must choose between a Canadian style relationship, which offers you much greater autonomy but much lower access to our market, and a Norwegian type deal which offers far better market access but much less autonomy.”

      It was never going to say anything else. It was always going to put first the integrity of its current legal order and the need to demonstrate a very clear distinction between the benefits available to members, and the best that could ever be on offer to any third country.

      And it was never going to change its legal order for the benefit of a state that had chosen to leave it.

      It is therefore never going to agree to some generalised equivalence system which opens up regulation/legislation effectively to joint decision-making between itself and the UK.

      Yet that is of course what appears in the Canada ++ propositions we now see floated as superior to Chequers. As with the core economic elements of Chequers, the chance of the EU agreeing them is precisely zero.

      Just as an accession process for those joining the EU is not some symmetrical negotiation process with give and take but a process of progressive crossing of thresholds by the applicant to meet the standards of the body it is joining, so the “de-accession process” which is the UK’s departure, is simply not a process in which the rules of the club we are departing are up for grabs and for revision.

      I was saying this in Whitehall and indeed to British journalists in Brussels well before the referendum. Because we needed seriously to work through precisely how a Brexit process could be made to work before launching it.
      This is really not too difficult to grasp unless one is determined not to..”

    293. TJenny says:

      There used to be a Stock Exchange in Edinburgh, in the 60s, and the Remembrancer used to visit it once a month.

    294. Ian Mackay says:

      ‘Intollerable’ not intolerable??

      I’m guessing he must be complaining that the SNP scrapped the bridge toll charges or something.

      SNPBad because they are doing it deliberately.

    295. Scotspine says:

      Quality. Suspended from Twitter. Responded to some prick from England who was being abusive about Scots (called him the C word) and in short order, Twitter suspended me. Seems Twitter are happy to let Scots be abused and fuck us over when we respond.

    296. Fred says:

      Can U see the current readership of what’s essentially an Edinburgh local rag, queuing up to buy an Indy replacement? It will need a complete change of customer base.

    297. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 11 October, 2018 at 8:47 pm:

      ” … But I’m surprised (well, gobsmacked really) at all those voices who would rather see a BritNat paper go down than have it convert to becoming pro-indy.”

      Thing is could it now be converted to independence? Furthermore, just going by normal business practices and market forces it is quite simply a bad business prospect.

      Think on this – we have seen every other established newspaper in Scotland’s circulation drastically melting away and the once mighty Scotsman, once among the very best newspapers in the World, now bankrupt and with massive debts – not even one of the better prospects to survive.

      Secondly I very much doubt there is a single pro-independence reader left buying the paper and if bought by an independence supporting group what remains of its readership would vanish overnight.

      Then there is the simple fact that the newly supporting independence publications are growing but far from setting the woods on fire and they would be the most fertile place to draw Scotsman readership from.

      Face it – like myself most independence supporters have got out of the habit of reading newspapers on a daily basis. If they hadn’t the sale of the newer indy supporting publications would be sky high. It wasn’t because we didn’t like newspapers but because newspapers didn’t like us.

      After all if an estimated 100,000 plus indy supporters can be found to march through out capital city and every one of them were to buy an indy supporting paper there would be no problem and indy supporting papers would be a good business venture.

    298. Richard says:

      I use the bridge on a daily basis. It’s excellent! I had no idea that there was any work being done that was closing any lanes, and neither would most folk, since they aren’t travelling over it at night, which is why the work is being done at that time, presumably.

    299. Thepnr says:

      The latest squawks after tonights “war-cabinet” meeting are that the UK will agree to remain in a customs union with the EU for an indefinite period until technical solutions to the NI border can be implemented.

      This means of course that Liam Fox will be out of a job as it won’t be possible to sign any new free trade deals with all these countries that have been queeing up to do so once the UK leaves.

      It also affectively means that the UK will be under the control of the ECJ and any rule changes will have to be followed without an opportunity to influence the decision making to these changes. You know, the “vassal state” model so beloved of BoJo.

      Good luck with May getting this one to fly with the entire cabinet and the ERG group before getting it through parliament.

      Nothings really changed then and confusion reigns, next few weeks will be very interesting. Ma sides are splitting LOL.

    300. Confused says:

      I see Scotland lost at the kickball tonite to the red sea pedestrians – rumour has it mcleish played a “disabled gazan at a checkpoint”-11 rather than a crack “hezbollah with a lot of rockets” first team. Naturally the chosenites prevailed using krav maga and cabbalah bracelets.

      I don’t get it – why we’re so shit – we took LEAD OUT of the petrol, banned smoking, got rid of heavy industry – men no longer fight in the streets – no one even -fucking- swears anymore … I just hope in indy Scotland with a trillion merk wealth fund we can create a world class doping program, or maybe get into the genetic CRISPR resequencing … or just send a crack team of strumpets off to accost messi and ronaldo, to, er, “obtain samples” …

      Or maybe –

      the loss was deliberate – a payoff to bibi, the ADL, AIPAC – the chabad lubavitch will now be pulling strings for us in washington. Not 4 dimensional chess – this is 11 dimensional GO in zero gravity.

      In other news Georgie Galloway has now called a proposed Palestinian state – “too wee, too poor, too stupid” … and that the pals should look to the benefits of “pooling and sharing” with a more advanced and powerful union … when asked WTF was he talking about he said … shit, I MEANT SCOTLAND
      – “do gooding” – the funtimes where nothing ever makes a difference.

      – chances of a palestinian state while israel has an airforce? – less than
      (long list of very unlikely things)
      … I will start
      wile e. coyote catches the roadrunner
      The DUP say “okay then – that sounds reasonable … “

    301. Ken500 says:

      The two Unionists Parties supported illegal wars. There would have been the illegal wars. The only other Parties were the LibDems (Green/SNP. Even under PR/D’Hond’t there would not have been enough opposition members to vote against the illegal wars. There would have been them. The Tories/Labour had enough to vote for it, It would not make much difference there. It would make no difference at Westminster because Scotland can be outvoted 9 to 1.

      FPTP the SNP would have most of the seats in Holyrood. For strong goverance. Much less Unionists . Under D’Hond’t The SNP gets a massive vote but the 2nd vote lets more list unionists in. Under D’Hind’t system they win most of the FPTP (1st votes) on the ballot sheet. Is there a quota to reach? With enough (depending on turnout) they have enough candidates to have an outright majority,. (that was never supposed to happen) For one party get an outright majority with the 1st vote. (But they did) The Party that got the outright majority.

      Then the SNP second vote is not enough to pick up many other list seats. . 2nd vote section not used to pick up list seats because voters think they have to vote for a different political Party (2nd list) They are counted but do not reach enough of a total to get many list seats. Discarded?

      The 2nd vote on the ballot sheet is used for the list. They are counted together as a volume. according to votes for each political party then split between the number of list constituencies. Trying to make the list constituencies equal according to the population share/mass.of the electorate. In each geographical area. Equal according to each electorate number (per population) in each geographical area. According to how many they get as a total for in each area. Ie list area. The Party with the highest number in that set area wins the list seat. The 2nd choice vote is for Party. Not a candidate.

      The political Parties nominate candidates for the list. Voters do not know who they will get. The political parties each have a list they chose who goes on the list as 1st, 2hd, 3rd. Then according to the volume of votes gathered in each particular area. The parties decide which MSP goes to that post in that area. The 1st, on the list. The. if they get enough votes for another candidate. They get the post in another geographical area the 2nd on the list. Then in another the next lister -3rd.

      In the N/E Marra is the list MSP for the list constituency. Labour must have got more second votes as a volume. She does not live there. She lives in Dundee. She does not have an Office? Or shares or can use one in Dundee? Do people have to go go to Dundee? If they have any problems. She would not be allowed to deal with them because she is not the Constituency MSP but the lister. Making up the numbers for the Commitee business in Holyrood.and minister’s question time. A vote number in Holyrood when they vote on stuff. Debate,

      Under FPTP the SNP would have come through sooner. Increased volume nos of voters. Voters have increasingly voted SNP just as they did. They still would have, 2000 At first the unionists Parties had more voters. They were a majority (Labour) Jack O’Connell. The folk got fed up with them. They started to vote in higher numbers for the SNP, because they liked their policies. They would have done that in any case – FPTP higher nos. The SNP did not get more candidates elected because of the D’Hond’t system.

      The SNP got more candidates elected because more people started to vote for them. (The volume/nos of votes increased) The unionist vote decreased as a percentage. People got sick of unionists parties and liked the SNP policies and the attitude of their candidates and elected members. More people like their performance.

      There are also people who always vote SNP/Independence. That increased as people learnt more about the history of Westminster Gov etc. Information was shared on the Internet. The unionist and Press lies began to be more exposed. More people became engaged and voted sccordingly. More people became interested and wanted to find out more. That would happen in any case. Young people became more engaged. The turnout went up. People wanted Scotland to become a better place and achieve it’s potential, which it is doing.

      The SNP have had some outright victories vote volume they would have had under any system but under FPTP they would have got more. People/voters do not understand the D’Hond’t system it is too complicated. Many believe you have to vote for a different party with the second vote. Even if they are SNP/Independence totally. So they go and vote for a unionist . Putting the unionist volume of votes up for different unionist Parties, Putting votes up for the unionist listers. When that is the last thing they meant to do. Especially when unionist voters would never give a second vote to the SNP or barely ever,

      The voters just do not understand the system. No one does. An electoral system the voters do not understand is a failure. The result is a failure. It dues not give a true reflection of what the voters Truly want. In some cases it gives an unintended outcome. They end up voting for candidates/parties they do not support because they wrongly think that is the way they have to vote. Use the system That is the way the system works when it does not. Losing SNP higher support.

      The idea is that they the Parties were supposed to be separate but co operate amicably. In Scotland that is not the case the unionists as a block usually vote against any progressive SNP policy just because they can. The do it for spite. Or just to score meaningless points. Annoying the voters even more because they support the policies.

      D’Hond’t was introduced by the unionist parties to make sure the SNP never got a majority. Even though they got so much support they did eventually. That was not supposed to happen to any Party. The lists were supposed to ensure the unionists could alway gang up again the SNP making sure Scotland was never governed properly. To con the voters. .

      With one person one vote. People vote for who they like and vote out who they don’t like. They know who they are voting for They can’t do that with D’Hondt because the second vote is for the Party not the candidate as a volume. People do not know who the lister will be in their constituency/area. The Party chooses who is on the list and who will be appointed to that constituency seat area. They are on committees in the Parliament. Do they get paid more for that? In the Councils they get paid more for being members of the Committee. They are doing a bit more.

      Less unionists would be there to spout their nonsense, and get the anti Independence lies publicicised.

    302. Robert Peffers says:

      @TJenny says: 11 October, 2018 at 10:15 pm:

      ” … There used to be a Stock Exchange in Edinburgh, in the 60s, and the Remembrancer used to visit it once a month.”

      Indeed there was and it was by no means a small set-up and was well respected right across the World. If memory serves it was strong on insurance and pensions.

      I just did a Google and. “The Industrial History of Scotland”, states that Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen established Stock Exchanges in1844-5. However it also states there were a lot more smaller towns with stock exchanges and that the Scottish Telephone network made special arrangements and was a far more dense system than anywhere else in Britain.

      It actually mentions a Stock Exchange in Greenock but this was apparently mainly just an extension of Glasgow.

    303. Cubby says:

      Ross Thomson on Question Time proving beyond any doubt that he is a Tory BAMPOT.

    304. Jock McDonnell says:

      Big Russell
      Battering Ram
      Pure Magic

    305. CameronB Brodie says:

      I was only teasing on the other thread, I wasn’t having a pop. 😉

    306. Thepnr says:

      You read it on Wings first and now Laura Kuenssberg confirms it.

      But after two years of huffing and puffing and haggling, one thing is becoming clear.

      The prime minister has always said that the UK could not accept staying in the customs union.

      But there are signs that the UK is considering whether to stay in an almost-identical arrangement for good, if a wider trade deal can’t be done…

      Brexiteers have long argued that if the UK stays in the customs union, it’s hardly like leaving the EU at all.

      And at the meeting today, several ministers, including Dominic Raab, Liam Fox, Jeremy Hunt and Michael Gove made that concern plain, not just because there are questions about whether it’s the right thing to do, but also about whether it could clear the House of Commons.

      Round and round and round she goes, where she stops…nobody knows …

    307. Mary miles says:

      Hello from Tassie:

      Best Wishes to all Wingers for Independence.

      Have the British unionists ever set out clearly why they want so desperately to hold on to Scotland?
      Everything I read by them only expresses criticism of the wish for independence but doesn’t actually set out exactly why they don’t want Scotland to leave the union? I think all Wingers probably know the answer/answers to that!

      Wonderful march last weekend in Edinburgh – gladdened my heart. I watched the parade go on for such a long time! Goal of independence seems ever closer – so many good people working for Scotland’s Independence and hopefully they will not have to wait too long to see their goal achieved!

    308. Robert Peffers says:

      New breaking YouTube video and this one will likely make Wingers laugh:- It is Headed, “REES-MOGG SAVAGES NICOLA STURGEON SECOND REFERENDUM PLEA WITH BRILLIANT POINT”

      If this channel thinks that is a brilliant point it needs its heed looked. I’ve been tagging this site for a while and it is fairly clear that all they are doing is copying other news sources and feeding them through an auto-translator and feeding these translations in different languages onto YouTube.

      They do credit their sources but you will notice the auto-translator will quote, “image”, when it hits a photo and also often quote the punctuation marks. Mind you it does have the benefit of not attempting to slant the news in any other direction than that from where they copied it.

    309. CameronB Brodie says:

      Mary miles
      One of the Rev.’s attitude surveys suggested there are only approximately 20% of the electorate who would never vote for independence, under any circumstances. They are largely British nationalists, IMHO, who tend not to have an empowering vision for Scotland and oppose independence out of a perverted sense of principle. That leaves approximately 30% of the electorate who are potentially open to persuasion, I think, though someone might correct my figures.

    310. Meg merrilees says:

      Catching the tail end of QT – where did they get tonight’s audience from? Tory party conference???

      Ross Thompson going on about the SNP being a broken record; Fraser Nelson pontificating; Kezia actually saying that we have an excellent education system but then blames the SNP for taking out £400miliion – huge applause. Glad I missed most of it – sounds like a lot of it was just SNP BAAD, BAAD and even BAADER.

      That’s a wrap then! Huge smiles all round at WM, W1A and MI5

    311. Capella says:

      @ Confused – brilliant summary of the important issues of the day. LOLZ 🙂

    312. Sinky says:

      Good old BBC QT not allowing Mike Russell to respond to numerous critics of P1 testing but allowed Ross Thomson 3 replies on Brexit

    313. QT tonight yet again more plants than the Beach-grove garden. Can I just say to our FM never ever give our enemies the easy target by saying x is our number one priority please keep them guessing.

    314. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 22:34,

      Well, May has two realistic options, it seems to me – either the full Brexit with all its consequences, or cave-in to the EU in some kind of carefully dressed-up “intermediate”/”temporary” SM/CU deal and dare her Tory opponents to try to vote it down. Knowing, as they will, that Labour might abstain or even support it.

      In the latter case, we’ll be the vassal state’s vassal state. Not much joy there for the Yes-Leavers.

    315. sassenach says:

      My God, how do BBC Scotland find their QT audiences?

      If a cross section should represent Indy 50/50 (as most polls do) how did this lot get in. It was decidedly strongly biassed.

      Dumbleby finally got his barbs in on Education, of course!

      It was carnage.

      That’s it for me and QT, only watched as it was from Holyrood – my mistake!

    316. Robert Peffers says:

      Here’s another right duzy link:-

      It is about Spain – they are worried about their tourist trade with, “The UK”, but seem to be unaware that at present Scotland is one of the only two partners in that UK.

      The report also states that Spain has seen a drop in tourists from the UK but also from other EU member states. Maybe they should have thought about that when they were brutally abusing the Catalan voters.

      I remember lots of people, and not just on Wings, saying that from then on they would holiday only in Catalonia and the rest of Spain was out.

    317. sandy says:

      Universal Credit gets more people into jobs.
      Where are the jobs?

    318. Col says:

      Didn’t Dimblbore make a point on question time previously of shutting down an SNP politician for talking about something relating to Scotland that wasn’t relevant to the rest of the UK as it was a UK wide programme? Why then would this question of p1 assessments come up on a UK wide programme? Could it be that they wanted to finish the programme off on an SNP bashing?
      The BBC in Scotland during the last general election had debates where they seemed hell bent on focusing on the supposed failures of the SNP at holyrood. Of course the BBC in Scotland has been working tirelessly to paint a picture of a failing police force, failing health service and education system. They wanted the SNP on the back foot instead of focusing on Westminsters failures.

    319. mike cassidy says:

      People still watch question time? That’s about as pointless as watching Scotland play both Tierney and Robert son at the same time.

    320. CameronB Brodie says:

      What’s the quality of jobs being filled?

    321. Cubby says:

      BBC Question time tonight was the BBC saying we can come up to Scotland using your money to put on a Britnat propaganda show right in the heart of your Scottish parliament.

      Dugdale says she will never vote for Scottish independence in any circumstances. Now a hardcore Britnat. So if the Tory gov says it will bayonet all first born children in Scotland Dugdale will say vote for labour and we will stop this appalling policy.

      Mike Russell did well as he was surrounded by 3 Britnat politicians and the old Etonian Britnat David Dimbledy. Don’t know how he had the patience to sit listening to the drivel coming from Nelson and Thomson. Dimbledy showed his usual bias in favour of his fellow Britnats and of course managed to remember to call the Britnat plants from the audience. I could swear some of the plants were foaming at the mouth. Lying Britnats to the left of Russell and lying Britnats to the right of him. I really don’t know why the SNP participate in this farce of a show.

      I won’t be watching this crap show again for quite some time. The BBC is the British state propaganda broadcaster. It will have no future in an independent Scotland.

    322. Footsoldier says:

      QT was quite well balanced. Don’t complain about what the enemy say. Do the same to them – turn the tables, unfortunately we don’t.

      Trying to be objective, I thought Kez came over very well, Val was non political, Fraser was Fraser (he does favour the Tories), Mike was superb as usual. Tonight’s loser was Ross as he came over as a drip with a chip.

    323. Ken Clark says:

      QT, at the beginning. Dimblebay, we “may” come on to education later.

      Yeah, right. Thanks for pre-warning us David. BBC hatchet hidden in his notes and plants at the ready.

      Christ almighty, it was so f’n obvious.

    324. Cubby says:

      CameronB Brodie@11.27pm

      Sorry don’t understand this comment. You must be mixing me up with someone else. What other thread are you talking about?

    325. Dr Jim says:

      What do you do in a country where the media controls the airwaves, the media controls the selection of people who appear on those airwaves, the media pays the wages of those who appear on the airwaves,the media controls the questions presented on the airwaves, the media elevates itself to being the umpire and arbiter of the discussions it itself produces then finds itself to be innocent of all accusations of wrong doing on the airwaves, the media is licenced and paid for by a government in another country opposed to the government of the country in which it transmits

      The country that holds the power of the transmission of broadcasting legally but refuse to devolve that *power* to the country to which it transmits

      Y’see the very fact that broadcasting is a reserved held *power* in England really really should be enough to show swithering voters to realise that England does not and never will recognise Scotland as a country, and even if you think or believe that Scotland should stay in the UK it surely must be almighty obvious to a dense one eyed monkey why……. *money*

      There’s a helluva big reason why England wants to grip Scotland by the throat till its eyes pop and never let go *money* because over 80% of England are happy to let Scotland go just for Brexit, now does that not demonstrate how much the people of England don’t care about Scotland so why does the English government….. *money*

      NO voters, are you believing what we’re telling you yet, give yourselves a shake, the SNP are not the threat here and never were, Scotland is loaded wadded and choking with dosh ready to be released for Scotlands use but you’ll never see it if you don’t vote for your country to divorce itself from the most corrupt union ever seen in modern times over….. *money*

      The SNP can’t do it themselves they’re not allowed to and every time they do something good *the budget* our money is cut by England to make them look Baad, see what the punishment is there….*money*

      It’s all about *money* and nothing else, and for the Bigot brigade, your Queen couldn’t care less if you worshipped a tumshie wae a helmet on it, you’ll never play in England ever they won’t let you, you’re just Scottish dog food the same as the rest of us because they don’t want to share …*money*

      Grow the Fukc up and go on your own can yer Mammy really disnae give a shit, but she’ll keep taking your…. *money*

    326. CameronB Brodie says:

      The BBC might be at it but they are a spent force in Scotland, IMHO.

      Media Regulation
      2.1 Normative media theory

      Media theory refers to the complex of social-political-philosophical principles which organize ideas about the relationship between media and society. Within this is a type of theory called `normative theory’, which is concerned with what the media ought to be doing in society rather than what they actually do. In general, the dominant ideas about the obligations of mass media will be consistent with other values and arrangements in a given society. According to Siebert et al (1956) in their book Four Theories of the Press, “the press takes on the form and coloration of the social and political structures within which it operates” (pp.1-2). The press and other media, in their view, will reflect the “basic beliefs and assumptions that the society holds”. In the western liberal tradition, this refers to matters such as freedom, equality before the law, social solidarity and cohesion, cultural diversity, active participation, and social responsibility. Different cultures may have different principles and priorities….

      A Theory of Media Politics
      How the Interests of Politicians, Journalists, and Citizens Shape the News

      Discourse Theory and Critical Media Politics: An Introduction

    327. CameronB Brodie says:

      On the “The definition of insanity” post.

    328. Ken500 says:

      There are Tory MP/MSP’s in the front of the QT audience. The usual biased audience. Dimbleby should be gone. A lot of brainwashed people.

      Dugdale et al are speaking rubbish as usual. On drugs.

      All drug deaths in Scotland are related. All drug deaths are because people are prescribed methodone and then take other substances, That is why many Drs will nit prescribe methodone. They will prescribe depressants which will act in the same way. People take then take other substance, They accidently overdose.

      The only way is to have proper ‘total abstinence’ one chance proper rehab.

      It crosses all classes and society, people who pay receive proper help. It is a small amount to ensure people get off drugs. Never drink or drugs and have a better life. Too many Dr’s prescribe anti depressant to alcohol and drug users which can kill them. Rooms will not help. It could lead to higher drug taking. The area becoming a supply area.

      There are already needle exchanges. Many of the staff even nurses and Doctors do not understand drug use. A gene affecting the brain which runs in families? Drs and nurses do not get enough drug/alcohol information in their training. Yet they are the first port of call for help.

      Some Drs give treatment that caused people’s death. One advised an alcoholic not to go to proper rehab because it was religious. A lie. Some subscribe to a higher power. It can be any belief structure. Then Dr then proscribe anti depressants. The person on drinking and died. 45 years old. A talented p, absolutely, wonderful person. Alcohol is a depressant. It make people depressed. It damages the body especially over time

      Drugs like heroin cause accidents, criminality, and body harm. People commit crime under the influence of drink and drug, Extremely harmful over time. Addicts die by the time they are 40. The recent graves in cemeteries 20 years ago were 18 years old not 80 years old.

      Young people are stopping, drinking and taking drugs but still using cannabis which can cause many health problems especially over time early earlier death. SNP introduced it. MUP. Dugdale and Labour did not support it.

      Some drug/alcohol services advocate drinking wine with a meal or taking drugs for a celebration. That can kill people. Alcoholic and drug takers must be helped to be detoxed and then counselled and help to charge their livestyle to total abstinence. Joining AA and NA for support.

      Some drugs services were passed from the HHS to social care to provide local services. The councils do not provide the proper services. Staff not properly trained. Using chsrities for services which are not funded or trained properly. Under the NHS the doctors used to put people to proper Rehab facilities. Every Health Board in Scotland but Grampian supported this policy. Castle Craig in Peebles is one of the best alcohol/drug addition facilities in the world. World famous information and policies, Experts.

      Richard Lochhead’s family (Dr) ran excellent Drug/alcoholic addiction services in the NE. Saved many lives. Hundreds. Now retired. They should consult the Dr. to give advice howcto set up proper services. The clinic service has now been sold to amateurs, Doing more harm then good?

      They are now speaking absolute rubbish. The tests pick up additional needs requirements. So strategies can be put in place as soon as possible. Autism, dyslexia and Asperger. Otherwise it is not picked up till later causing stress and anxiety for all concerned. Too many teachers do not get additional needs training unless they specialise. It should be put in teacher training school and unis. Although things are changing.

      Most schools and teschers are excellent. John Swinney should take down the statute of class sizes. (30) to 27 or 28. The councils try to use it (30) to keep class sizes higher to cut the allocated funding and spend it on non mandated projects.

      30 – 300 teachers short. 1.5Million youngsters in Scotland. Take way the under two’s in education. Dugdale uses the usual monsene. Education cut £400,000 because Of demographic changes. Less youngster in education than the comparison before. A drop in overall child numbers. Councils should supply ‘key’ affordable houses to key workers, including teachers.

      The rest of the UK education system is failing. The ConDems elected to protect NHS and Education cut both. Cut NHS £4Billion a year. Education £6Billion a year. From 2015 to 2020 causing massive problem and totally unnecessary. Introduced £9000 fees. Loans. Increasing student debt. 50% to 83%? not replayed. Student loan companies making money from people who are unable to repay. Why burden young people with a colossal rate of debt when they are starting out in life.

    329. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, Scotland had a few stock exchanges, including Dundee. The Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey have a company that services them all

      and the London Stock Exchange is not govnerment, it’s a PLC. So the Scottish Stock Exchange would cost the ScotGov nothing, provide revenue, and provide jobs, including for a regulator, high paying ones too, The sort of thing that would appeal to some at least of the NO voters.

      These are the sort of institutions should be made clear by campaigners, all the bodies of State, some at least of which are not just costless, but provide revenue.

      For some odd reason they were all moved down south, long ago. We got the call centres, which then moved to India!

    330. Cubby says:

      CameronB Brodie @ 12.52am

      Sorry only teasing. Brain damage a great track on Dark Side of the Moon.

      I would like to see some of the non existent oil in the non existing Scottish waters used to power quite a few rockets to send the worse of the Britnats up to the dark side of the moon to consider their own brain damage.

    331. Ken500 says:

      Fraser Nelson describes Scotland as it was over forty years ago, before Devolution 2000. Totally out of touch. He left. A Thatcherite. Eventually the SNP standing up for Scotland. It was Thatcher who devastated the Scottish economy. Taking vast resources to fund London S/E. Telling lies. Writing on Treasury documents. ‘This must be kept secret’ re the cuts in budget. Claiming at the Church of Scotland Assembly, ‘We the English people are generous to you Scots’. A total lie. ‘The sermon on the mound’. Barnett Formula. The McCrone Report. The Poll tax.

    332. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve something of a dark sense of humour so it really wasn’t a problem. 😉


      Not meaning to guilt trip anyone but traumatic brain injury is a silent epidemic.

    333. Cubby says:


      Not a problem. Had a bad concussion myself in the past – no joke.

      If you go for a tease you need to be up to identifying the counter tease. ?????

    334. Ken500 says:

      Scotland had a Glasgow based Stock broker. ‘Stanley Morgan? It was closed and moved to consolidate in London. It was a branch operation but did buy and sell shares for clients. Advise on investment portfolios

      Banks used to buy and sell shares for a small fee but they stopped. Brewin Dolphin buy and sell shares in Scotland for customers for a small fee. Stock brokers have to be multimillionaires for liability. High insurance,

      The Aberdeen Asset fund. Now Aberdeen Standard? Is one of the biggest European managed fund. It was based in Scotland, It’s HQ could have moved since it amalgamated. Martin Gilbert supported Independence. Still does?

    335. twathater says:

      Against my own better judgement I watched the attempted slaughter of Mike Russell , unfortunately if anyone with a functioning brain cell within that audience would care to interpret what happened they will realise it didn’t work .

      Seriously I am at a loss to understand what it will take for these people to waken up , can they honestly believe that Thomson , Dugdale , Dimbumble , and that other faux Scotsman Fraser know what they are doing ,I enjoyed bojo’s bouncer buddies rictus grins when Russell called him out for his falsehoods , but Russell was wasting his time these people are so brainwashed with the cringe that they vote for arsewipes like Thomson

    336. Ken500 says:

      Nicola said there would be an Investment bank set up in Scotland by Christmas? To loan Scottish Gov money to invest in industry, A central bank? There was more investment in another scheme. It was in the speech. A centre set up to advise business for excellence and good practice.Innovation.

    337. Ken500 says:

      Spain has less visitors in the summer because it so fine in other countries. They went to them or stayed at home. There was an increase in Staycation. They went on holiday but in Britain. It was really hot in Spain too hot 40 degrees. More folk came to Scotland. The climate was nice. The majority in Catalonia did not vote to hold a Ref on Independence. Or for Independence. 2Million out of a 5.2Million electorate. Low turnout.30/40% (Another 1Million EU citizens/migrants ?) 1.5Million youngsters. 7.5Million pop.

      On internet – report the Independence Parties have lost the majority in the Catolonia Parliament, D’Hond’t system. They have more powers than Scotland. They can raise and lower taxes. The most prosperous region. Own media. More control over the economy, 4 months holidays. 2 month summer Hot. One month Easter. One month Christmas. Religious fetes and ceromony. Strong Church and families. Kids are cute. They all watch out for them. There wedding are great. Fancy churches, Now separation of Church and State.

    338. Dr Jim says:

      These folk knocking Scottish education should know the English are phasing out Roman Numerals

      Not on my watch!

      Boom Boom!

      Off to bed, nitenite

    339. Cactus says:

      A good mornin’ Thepnr, a howde do 🙂

      “It also affectively means that the UK will be under the control of the ECJ and any rule changes will have to be followed without an opportunity to influence the decision making to these changes.”

      SO ah guess that means that Theresa & The Tories, are effectively putting the ‘United Kingdom’ (which as you know is a ‘ceremonial kingdom’) and all of the current EU citizens of it, into an international quarantine status. Ohhhhh to be a third country / ‘ceremonial uk kingdom’… not.

      Hey Cairnstoon soon, have ye ever drawn us an M26 motorway toon.

      Please excuse the source and event, but look at the potential pictures:

      Scotland morning.

    340. yesindyref2 says:

      Morgan Stanley and Aberdeen Standard Investments (thanks for that) could help set up a / the new Stock Exchange I expect, as shareholders. I hope they have a plan ready to blow the dust off!

    341. Petra says:

      Gary Pettigrew, the boss (a Scot) of the UK waste disposal company Healthcare Environmental Services, that has lost NHS contracts interviewed by the BBC (making sure that you pick up on the accent). He says that his company has been vilified. The problem lay with a shortage of incinerators, since 2015, which he had flagged up. He said, ”We have been a success story up until last week, and all of a sudden now everyone sees this as being a horror story.” Mr Pettigrew also denied allegations that the waste that built up on sites included human body parts, such as amputated limbs. He said: “None of that is true.”

      Petition against two teenagers being sent back to Pakistan.

      Trains between Dundee and Aberdeen have been suspended due to a derailed train.

      The numbers of wild beavers have soared in Scotland. They’re 25 kilos in weight and ? metres long.

      Fair Isle will have now a reliable electricity supply 24 hours a day.


      Scottish fitba on the main BBC news. The Scottish team is 94th in the World.


      ‘95% of Scottish college-leavers have positive destinations.’


      ‘Umpteenth post on underlying strength in Scottish economy: Property investment up 19.8%!’


      ‘First UK wind turbine repair and recycling centre opens in Scotland.’

    342. Petra says:

      Ooops forgot to add, on my last post, that the first part relates to BBC Scotland news this morning!

    343. Robert Peffers says:

      @Mary miles says: 11 October, 2018 at 11:30 pm:

      ” … Best Wishes to all Wingers for Independence.”

      Thank you for that, Mary.

      ” … Have the British unionists ever set out clearly why they want so desperately to hold on to Scotland?”

      Not to my knowledge and any who have tried have failed miserably.

      ” … Wonderful march last weekend in Edinburgh – gladdened my heart. I watched the parade go on for such a long time!”

      Indeed a great display that shoots down claims that no one in Scotland wants another referendum.

      I’m quite surprised really that none of the yoonatics has claimed the march was fixed and that AUOB had organised a fleet of busses that the marchers arriving at the destination piled into and were transported back to the start point to march back down to the Queen’s Park again and again just like in one of those old comedy films where a countless stream of people poured out of a tiny phone box. All done by re-running the same short film clip as an endless belt.

      The UK Gov Brexiteers get more demented by the minute.

    344. Frank Gillougley says:

      On a light note, watching Ross Thomson’s chin last night on QT, Oh how I wish I was the Victor’s Alf Tupper giving that tory chin its merited comeuppance.

    345. Petra says:

      BBC Scotland should be reporting this kind of news, instead of an increase in beavers, FGS! Then again maybe some of their pals have infiltrated our Scottish Government ‘public bodies’?!?

      What’s going on with all of these so-called Scottish organisations that are supposed to be protecting Scotland? Additionally funded by the Scottish Government, using OOR money. If this had been carried out by any other body it would be considered to be a disgrace. In this instance is bl**dy sacrilege and someone should be getting the boot, better still sent to prison.

      ‘SNH sued for £150k over Loch Lomond beech tree poisoning.’

      ”Scottish Natural Heritage is being sued for more than £150,000 for “deliberately poisoning and killing hundreds of ancient beech trees” at a well known Loch Lomond beauty spot.

      Luss Estates say Inchtavannach island, also known as Monk’s Isle, has been left looking like a “wasteland” because of theheritage body’s incompetence.

      The government agency said they were “disappointed” by the landowners’ legal action.”

    346. Petra says:

      ‘UK accused of using Scotch whisky as a bargaining chip in Brexit talks.’

      ”Considerable attention has been given to the impasse over the Irish border, but there is also deadlock on the issue of “geographical indicators”.

      These are labels which give legal protection to food and drinks from particular areas in the EU to stop them being imitated and sold cheaply by rival producers elsewhere….”

      ..”One of the most valuable GIs in the whole of Europe is Scotch whisky and The National has been told by a source close to the negotiations that there is a growing sense in Brussels that the reason an agreement in this area has stalled is because the UK has identified the industry as a potential “chip” in the Brexit talks.”..


      ‘SNP poll reveals Scots feel ignored by Theresa May.’

      The Survation poll, for the SNP, found that only 27% of the public believe the Tories have given “an appropriate amount of consideration” to the views of people in Scotland, with 62% believing they have not.

    347. Al-Stuart says:

      Thanks to Wingers for entering into the spirit of a good debate on The Scotsman’s newspaper’s future.

      All good points.

      I would emphasise a main principle…

      The National does a great job, but I suspect 92% of National readers are YES and the other 8% Yoons keeping an eye on what the SNP are doing!”

      Moving a major newspaper title – a long established one such as The Scotsman to an Independence supporting narrative will lose the hard, entrenched Yoons. BUT it will also persuade several percent of readers of the benefit in Scotland running it’s own country.

      How does anyone think 55.3% of Scotland were persuaded to vote NO in 2014? Like or loathe them, the newspapers do influence large tranches of the voting population.

      The merits/demerits of Holyrood/Westminster need to be taken into the living rooms of moderate NO and DON’T KNOWS.

      Only by persuading 5% to 10% of NO voters to join YES will the Independence vote be won.

      It does look like Alex Salmond may well be on the case with Johnson Press. Whatever else, The Scotsman’s days of being an bear-bating dissembler tool are almost over 🙂

    348. galamcennalath says:

      ” When the likely repercussions and Government plans for a no-deal Brexit were explained to consumers in our research, many were shocked and questioned why they had not been made aware of the implications sooner. “

      Blinkered? Gullible? In denial? Perhaps won’t face up to the consequences of their Leave vote? TBH I’m not quite sure what to say about that!

    349. Petra says:

      Question Time:

      I don’t know if I would have included people like Cat Boyd and Jim Sillars on the pro-Independence list. They also seem to favour Val McDermid who has been invited on to the programme three times. I wonder why that is? And of course it’s not surprising to see that Kezia Dugdale and Meryn Somerset Webb have been on the programme on four occasions.


      ‘Here’s how ‘balanced’ Question Time has been on independence since 2014.’

      Tonight’s show in Edinburgh, which we’ll be live-blogging, sees the Unionists outnumbering the pro-independence panellists by three to two.

      So, that got us wondering … since the independence referendum on September 18, 2014, how many panellists have been pro-union, and how many pro-independence?

      We suspect the results won’t surprise our readers.

      Excluding Janet Street-Porter, because we can’t quite find sufficient evidence on her view, there have been 57 panellists appearing on Question Time shows in Scotland since the referendum. That includes tonight.

      Of those panellists, 34 have been in favour of the Union, and only 23 in favour of independence. That’s not quite 55%-45%, is it? It’s actually 60%-40%.

      In the interests of transparency and in order to facilitate debate on whether we’ve unfairly put someone on one of the sides, here’s who we have…

      On the Unionist side, we’re counting: Alex Massie, Annabel Goldie, Ben Wallace, Caroline Flint, Charles Falconer, Chris Bryant, Danny Alexander, David Mundell (x3), Emily Thornberry (x2), Fraser Nelson, Jenny Marra, Kezia Dugdale (x4), Kwasi Karteng (x2), Mark Littlewood, Meryn Somerset Webb (x4), Rory Stewart, Ross Thomson, Ruth Davidson (x3), Shami Chakrabarti, Tim Stanley, Toby Young, Willie Rennie

      And on the pro-independence side: Billy Bragg, Brian Souter, Cat Boyd, Darren McGarvey, David Hayman, Humza Yousaf (x2), Jim Sillars, Joanna Cherry, John Nicolson (x2), John Swinney (x3), Kate Forbes, Keith Brown, Lesley Riddoch (x2), Mike Russell, Patrick Harvie, Val McDermid (x3)

      The BBC are so keen on balance normally, aren’t they? For example, earlier this week, when they gave a climate change denier airtime on Newsnight in the wake of a UN report showing the catastrophic risk it poses.”

    350. Petra says:

      I’m just posting snippets from the article in case the full article is ad-blocked.


      Lesley Riddoch: ‘Sturgeon should share the limelight – and put trust in Team SNP.’

      …”After an astonishingly generous and much-shared tweet: “You don’t need to agree with Nicola Sturgeon’s policies to acknowledge that her speech – and, indeed, her world view – has a coherence to it that’s quite rare in this era of British politics,” Alex Massie wrote in the Spectator. “When you watch Sturgeon talk you know exactly the kind of politics in which she believes and you gain a clear picture of the kind of country she thinks Scotland can – and should – be. This is a rarer gift than you might think.”
      On the outcome of a 2021 election, he opined: “If it produces a pro-indyref2 majority elected on a clear promise to hold such a referendum, it is difficult to see how the UK Government could enjoy the kind of moral authority that could prevent another plebiscite.” And on Unionist hopes that a messy Brexit might deter Scots from independence, (a vain hope) “if the alternative is a UK polity equally intent on turning us into a nation of troglodytes the better to further some eccentric definition of sovereignty and “taking back control”. Well, well. This is a good deal more than faint-hearted praise. The Guardian too has dropped its occasionally hostile tone”..

      ..”Of course, some unexpected stories made front-page headlines too. The Herald’s Tom Gordon misconstrued the words of Joanna Cherry QC in a fringe meeting. She said a “democratic event” such as a General Election would be needed to justify indyref2 – he said she claimed Scotland could become independent without another referendum.”..

      ”Even the professionally curmudgeonly Telegraph columnist Alan Cochrane was heard to praise Mike Russell’s blockbusting speech, obviously written by himself because it contained four literary references.”..

    351. Petra says:

      Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp: ‘The UK has become a nation of narcissistic consumers.’

      …”In economics we describe people as economic actors, but in truth the UK has become a nation of economic narcissists living in a peacock economy.

      The fashion industry is a case study in economic narcissism, and is one of the biggest polluters in the world – possibly only second to the oil and gas industry on a global scale. One hundred billion new garments are produced every year and in the UK 1.13 million tonnes of clothing was bought in 2016, whilst we threw out 300,000 tonnes, creating 26 million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions from production to disposal.

      Figures vary but a single pair of jeans (made from cotton) takes around 10,000 litres of water to produce, leading to water shortages in the third world where the cotton is produced.

      I wrote in this column back in May about the Aral Sea, once Earth’s fourth-largest inland sea (the size of Ireland) which has now shrunk by 80% due to cotton production’s demand for water. At the same time, the nations that actually make the garments have squalid working conditions, sometimes employ child labour and pollute their local environment by releasing untreated production waste including chemicals and heavy metals like mercury, arsenic, lead and cadmium directly into the waterways that hundreds of millions of people fish in, drink from, bathe in and irrigate their crops with. Fast fashion to die for – well people are actually dying for it.”…

    352. INDEPENDENT says:

      O/T Ref this from Murray Foote
      (Fishing quotas, the sole (pun intended) Brexit plus identified by Scots Tories, are carved up by the Government for the benefit of a cabal of five exceptionally wealthy families, including one at the heart of the £63m black fish fraud of a few years ago. Why am I not surprised?)

      Why are we not surprised that when you were editor NON OF YOUR SO CALLED JOURNALISTS, could provide this in depth searching piece of journalism or did you as editor just SUPRESS what you now claim doesn’t surprise you!!!
      Uncle Tom???

    353. Petra says:

      Great two page spread in yesterday’s National by Dr Eve Hepburn Founder of PolicyScribe, Honorary Fellow at the University of Edinburgh’s Europa Institute and Academic Fellow at the Scottish Parliament.

      ‘What are the implications of the UK’s post-Brexit immigration proposals?’

    354. ronnie anderson says:

      Petra ur you auditioning fur ah news presents position oan the Bbc , hearing their shite wans is enough lol.

    355. Tackety Beets says:

      Frank Gillougley @ 7.48

      Alf Tupper was the runner. Fish n Chips then off like hell.

      He was our favourite for sure.

      The rest was “war” stuff, Jimmy Grant ? or Gus ? @ Football but I cannot re-call a boxer, maybe in the Hotspur.
      Mighty Morgan might have stepped in tho’

      Jeezo only begining to realise how I can forget…..ahh the good ol days.

    356. Socrates MacSporran says:


      I appreciate you are a regular and valued contributor to Wings, but, just occasionally, you write shite.

      Scotland is not, as you wrote: “94th in the world,” we are actually 39th in the current FIFA rankings. Although, I will admit, likely to fall into the 40s after that disgraceful performance against Israel, and with Portugal to come on Sunday.

      And, while I am in a bad mood: Stu mac there is no “e” in whiskey, you also are an established Winger, and should ken better.

      No offence meant, Scotland losing to “diddy” teams has a bad effect on me.

    357. Petra says:

      Last post, lol, as I’ve got to run.


      ‘The National – Long Letter by Dave Llewellyn, Edinburgh.’

      ‘If our 500 miles turned any Yes voters to Yes activists, it was worth it.’

      …”I had gone ahead to tell the group that we were on a different route, and as the walkers arrived the hardy souls who had waited for nearly two hours suddenly got very excited and decided on an impromptu march right through the centre of Fraserburgh. Cars started beeping their horns. People came out of shops, cafes and houses and started to applaud, and some even joined us to march to the centre.

      One of the local group leaders said she had been in Fraserburgh for 26 years and never had a national event come to her town. Another said they were completely amazed by the response of locals and that they had underestimated the depth of feeling for independence in their own area but that the next day, invigorated, they would be out on the doors talking to these new supporters. Supporters who had voted Yes but who had kept their heads down as the north-est seemed to slide to the Unionist narrative aided by the one-sided press.”….

    358. Petra says:

      @ ronnie anderson says at 8:52 am … ”Petra ur you auditioning fur ah news presents position oan the Bbc , hearing their shite wans is enough lol.”

      Ha, ha, ha. I live in hope Ronnie that the BBC will at least interview me. Give me a 30 minute slot, so that I can highlight how wealthy Scotland is, why it should be independent and what a bunch of thieving liars they are.

    359. Valerie says:

      Yes, QT was painful in parts, the most painful being the public broadcast of our cringing countrymen.

      Surely even the most rabid Britnat must be spasmed in laughter, at the guy who asserted,,we voted 55% No, so we just have to go down with England. I hope his parents are suitably ashamed, if they witnessed that that abject cowardice, fear, lack of ambition, brainwashed lick spittling.

      On the plus side, Ross (pizza boy) was superbly moronic, and was given a kicking by Mike Russell, and a criminologist in the audience, who also dealt with Nelson.

      On Twitter, we played whack a yoon, as they popped up to variously scream “we hate you scroungers anyway, just go”.

    360. Valerie says:

      @ Socrates

      “Scotland losing to “diddy” teans has a bad effect on me”


      Cos that never happens. You are funny.

    361. Luigi says:

      Petra says:

      12 October, 2018 at 8:06 am

      ‘UK accused of using Scotch whisky as a bargaining chip in Brexit talks.’

      Of course the BritNats will be using Scotch whisky, North Sea Oil, Renewables, Scottish fishing grounds, Aberdeen Angus Beef, Strawberries (if they can get someone to pick them) – anything and everything will be sacrificed in order to get a deal for the London bankers. Aside from Scottish resources, they don’t exactly have much else to barter, do they?

      Another IndyRef would put a nice little spanner in that cunning little ploy, methinks. After all, it’s kinda difficult to promise something that may not belong to you next year. Just sayin. 🙂

    362. Giving Goose says:

      Re Question Time.

      Who gives a shit about this crap BBC programme.
      I haven’t watched it in years and I feel clean.
      Do the same and vote with your remote control.
      Don’t watch this absurd piece of stage managed propaganda.

    363. Tackety Beets says:

      Petra @ 8.20

      Ref Mark Littlewood, is he a Unionist ?

      I have found him to be fairly even handed, and realistic ?

      Back in the days of me paying the propoganda tax & viewing QT, I am sure he did a full “benefits of iScotland” as if he felt it was perfectly doo-able & a good thing.

    364. Petra says:

      @ Socrates MacSporran at 8:55am … “Petra just occasionally you write sh*te”…

      I beg your pardon Mr MacSporran! If you’d read my post properly you’d see that I was quoting from a presenter on BBC news this morning. Highlighting once again what a bunch of ‘talking down Scotland’ liars they are. If you’re not happy with that, their figure and disagree, take it up with the BBC who continually write / talk sh*te. A habit you seem to be adopting yourself this morning.

    365. Petra says:

      ‘Lord Kerr says prejudiced little Englanders are hemming Scotland in.’

    366. Socrates MacSporran says:


      I do beg your pardon, but, in my defence, quotation marks might have helped.

      I read your post as incredulity that the deeds of the Scotland football team should actually merit a mention on the National News, given we were 94th in the world.

      As I said, with quotation marks, I would have known. Now off to direct my ire at the BBC.

    367. Tackety Beets says:

      Sorry Petra, you may have picked it up wrong it was the opposition placed 94 in world & we failed to even draw with them.

    368. Ken500 says:

      At present the ones that can set up as stock brokers have to be members of Lloyds of London. (Provide insurances for shopping and major contracts). They can be members of syndicates (a few of together). They have to be multimillionaires. To have (set) reserves. Strict amount of levels in reserve. In case they have to pay out on any major disasters, £Millions ..They are already very wealthy people. They pool their wealth to make even more money.

      Usually it is fool proof they make lots of money,. Vast profits (Like bankers) The disaster never happens. They collect massive fees. Things can go wrong – disaster happens. They have to shell out. Massive (insurance) contribution. It can bankrupt them.

      A few years ago something happened. Lloyds of London were,suing syndicates members through the Courts for £Millions to cover a claim. It would bankrupt many wealthy people. Can’t remember if they had to pay damages or some kind of settlement was reached. Will look it up later. There was a big carry on at the time. Big, famous names complaining it was unfair.

      Governed by UK Gov and supposed to be strict financial rules. Everyone knows what happens when these rules are broken with impunity. The Gov might have to bail them out with public money. They are the only ones with means. The population goes without and it causes misery.

      A stock brockering organisation could be set up in Scotland. Or even affiliated. Under the same rules, The US Wall Street /UK organisation can have some connection. Lloyds of London was taken over by the German drax Bought out or an offer was made and refused? A few years ago, it appeared to be struggling. Not making so much money. Making loses.

      There are still private banks in Scotland. Owned by people. Banks can be owned privately One used to support Independence, Gave SNP donations years ago. They possible could set up as stock brokers backed by Gov rules. The SNP Gov seem to be investing in setting up a bank by Christmas? and backing, setting up organisation with Gov funds in reserve to lend money at reasonable rates and help business gain innovation to prosper.

      Traditional banks no longer loan what is need for busines to expand. They are still strict and cautious about how they . Or they not longer have such a lot of mionry to lend at the same level/rate. Before prosperous businesses could easily get an overdraft for cash flow. They can’t can’t now. Putting pressure on business. Even successful ones making money.

      Sometimes good going businesses have to shut down or fold. Unless the companies/owners can cone up with some collateral or support from other sources to tide them over. Banks are much stricter now. They do have to keep more money in reserves it went up to 25%. The same as it was before the banking crash. They went back under world Laws? Rules which were reduced by US/UK govs before the banking crash. 25% to 13% collateral (Thatcher/Regan/ Bush/ Clinton/Brown)

      The banks often will not give out mortgages to people well able to repay, They can refuse the application at short notice. Even on agreements already in place. Mathewson former Chairman of BoS introduced Goodwin. He was not a banker but an accountant They changed to performance related pay. Bonuses for targets. It made more money for staff but even more for those at the top. Them. The Ponzi scheme which led to over selling.

      Mathewson used to go to the branches hassling staff to meet targets or they were side stepped. Some got fed up and left. Some got distressed, Before everyone got a yearly percentage rise 2%/3% The staff had to They reduced managers to save money, A bigger share for those at the top.

      They gave managers/staff offers they could not refuse. Early pensions and lump sums.Staff got more taking earlier retirement than they did working. Coming back to sell insurance and financial products freelance. Although some staff remaining lost out with even more stressful conditions and anxiety. Reduced pension and working rights. Many threatened to leave, or were threatened to leave. They took voluntary redundancy and left. Got better jobs.

      Some didn’t get better jobs but still recovered from the stress. A bit like Brexit. A tsunami sweeping in. The tide receding, Contracting. Revealing barren land. Then the tide sweeping back taking all in it’s way. Scary stuff right enough.

      If they are any grammar mistakes to sd. I have edited it far too much and it still,keeps on jumping back. Crossing fingers and toes. Here goes.

      Some left and worked P/time in the summer and bought a combo in the US Florida and went there fishing in the winter. Some lost out. Folk with holiday homes in the US can only stay for a certain amount of time. 6 months? They can’t stay longer, They need a visa. Unless they start up a business. They can get a Green card and be able to work, Sone do They have to become US citizens. Migrants.

      Only US citizens can have businesses in the States. Unless there is a proxy or a subsidiary. An outlet. Some property devalued with the banking crash. Even abroad with the fall in £. Took to the cleaners in Spain/Catalonia with fleecing fraud on the Costas. London over lending markets, lies, No rights at all as EU citizens. Still devalued.

      Murdoch had to become an American citizen because his business are based there. Now he has married an American Jerry Hall for business reasons? He married a Chinese women tomtry and get into Chinese markets.Failed. They have two daughters, His first wife was Scottish. To get into UK markets. Failed marriage. Failed businesses. News Corp. Sons/daughter part Scottish/British for business purposes. Marriages of convenience? Marx said Marriage was prostitution.

      Murdoch is Australian. Comcast? has bought Sky News. Looks like it will not be any different. Fake News. An American company. Murdoch totally illegally interfered in the UK Gov and matters. Entertaining and funding UK unionist politicans illegally.

      Under US business Laws anyone who bribes public officials anywhere in the world can be charged, fined and punished. Put in jail. Murdoch did but got away with it. UK unionist politicians protected him for favours. Blair the godfather. Murdoch lied to UK. Gov Committee and Leveson Inquiry. It is still on going they have found evidence among papers Rebecca Brooks lied under Oath in court and to the Inquiry. Brooks still works for Murdoch. She knows were the bodies are buried,

      It looks like they will go after them again to get a conviction, This time. How ace would that be especially with Brexit. Murdoch was behind it. Financing it with crooked money. To bet on it and make more money. Gove, Davis, Farague and Murdoch have been photographed together at a function by Lily Allen. All in it together. Allen is a bit of a socialist, along with her dad. She would support Scottish Independence. Along with the rest of the UK, According to high Polls. Bring it on.

      Remember Alexander quite a long time ago. Brown squashing it down. Then the VOW. What a horror of a person. Brown is a freaking idiot. Totally incompetent. How people can listen to him. They must be lacking information or intransigent. Scotland could have voted for Independence. Avoiding the total shambles and hypocrisy of the Brexit mess. What a disaster. Just as well the SNP and the the people will guide to a better more prosperous, equal and fair cohesive land. Without Westminster corrupt interference.

    369. jfngw says:

      I don’t watch BBC QT any more, I consider this a badge of honour now. But I have seen their tweets claiming that P1 assessment was introduced last year. Is this wilful lying or incompetence on their part.

      Assessments have been taking place for some time, what was introduced was a standardise method. I vaguely remember, I started school in 1959 so it can only be vague now, being given some form of assessment at a small desk with shapes (possibly more than this as but it’s all I can remember).

    370. Capella says:

      @ Scott Finlayson – um…your Independence march video link is about coolant pumps teardown and clean -is that some kind of subtle joke or a mistake? Just asking.

      @ Petra – fine set of National quotes this morning. Ta – handy since Nana is off today. Evereybody needs to keep fighting fit these days s we seem to be on a helter skelter to a BREXIT near death experience.

    371. Collie says:

      More English Royal parasite bastards getting married today at the expense of the tax payer.

      No doubt their new mansion will have been fully renovated also at our expense.

      Meanwhile back in the real world, don’t forget everyone who is claiming benefits in the UK will be transferred over to Universal Credit next April.

      This will cause widespread chaos and poverty for millions. But hey,,what’s a bit of poverty when we can always look forward to more English Royals living the life of luxury , that’ll help put the smile back in your face, won’t it?

    372. Ottomanboi says:

      If the UK is supposedly perched on the brink of auto-destruction should we not be giving it a good shove rather than attempting to save it through time wasting stuff like ‘Peoples Vote’. Scotland owes England/UK nothing. Brexit is an opportunity for Scotland to kick free. A constitutional quandary to exploit. We ought not to be handing out first aid to a dying Britannia, we should be switching off all life support.
      Israël 2, Scotland/Caesar!1 what a sorry mess! Time we played to WIN! in everything.
      No more ‘noble defeat’, ‘land of lost causes’ romantic garbage.

    373. Fireproofjim says:

      Tacketty Beets
      How about Cannonball Kidd and Rockfist Rogan, who was also an RAF pilot.
      God! I’m old.

    374. Collie says:

      Ottomanboi 10.35am

      All part of our cunning plan Otto.

      But don’t tell the English,,it’s our secret.

    375. Dr Jim says:

      Good morning friends I’m coming to you live from Bishopbriggs this morning where I’m wearing a drab dressing gown in black with grey straight line stripes by George at Asda and a pair of stunning burgundy baffies from China ordered from Amazon, no hat, and I am not even invited to the wedding of what may be perfectly nice people but I don’t know or care because I am not a member of the family

      Once again we’re treated to a British Nationalist fest of looking at folk who are infinitly better off than the rest of us and will be for the rest of their lives without care or worry but they are *Royal* so we must watch and revere them as a symbol of our Great Britishness and not as some others may interpret as an invented over subsidised bunch of parasites in an elevated position of priviledge that we all must admire and wave our Union Flags which represent no country but an invented Union based on dictatorship

      So Rule Brittania and this is me signing off from Bishopbriggs and it’s back to you in the studio flat or possibly hovel or pavement where you are

    376. yesindyref2 says:

      I hope everybody’s got their munchies for the Royal Wedding. Mrs Yesindyref2 is watching as she always does these thing so I’m keeping her company for a change. That’s my excuse. Taxpayer just pays for security by the way.

    377. Petra says:

      @ Tackety Beets says at 10:06 am … ”Sorry Petra, you may have picked it up wrong it was the opposition placed 94 in world & we failed to even draw with them.”

      That’s not what was said. Have you given a thought as to how the BBC can twist things?

    378. Frank Gillougley says:

      Fireproofjim & tacketty Beets

      ‘God! I’m old.’

      Aren’t we all, darling! (as the saying goes) 🙂

    379. Tackety Beets says:

      Indeed Petra, you will have no dispute from me about anything the BBC report.

      Regardless here is link for the avoidance of doubt :

    380. CameronB Brodie says:

      Moral right is on our side but unfortunately there aren’t enough Scots who see things that way, at present. The First Minister is performing her duties with regard to all Scots, not just those who support indy or the EU. She is performing her day job and simultaneously highlighting the yoonyawn can’t offer an acceptable future for Scotland. She’s at the coalface, so I’ll trust her judgement of when the time is right to call the indyref.

    381. Tackety Beets says:

      Frank Gillougley & Fireproofjim

      YES , what strikes me here on Wings is the proportion of us who pop our head up & confirm we are pre 1960 birthdays.

      Gosh it must be 50% & if I look at my FB its much the same & many Yes supporters. I sometimes do struggle with the 2014 Ref analysis.

      Ach well we have another Ref to campaign for, lets get to it. Smiley thing.

    382. Ken500 says:

      @ What a rebuke ( ! > )

      Stop squabbling because of misunderstanding in the posts. Missed meaning because of the internet set up. It happens millions of times every day. With some unfortunate consequences. Everyone arguing with the words on display.

      Wingers have to rise above it. They are better than that. They have to be. With all the rubbish slung at the site every day and night, A night shift, Flying like Wings. On the edge of Wings Flying son high as bird in the sky. Now I will duck out, Cookoo in the nest.

      Just another thing. Val McDermid said she did not know much about schools but was willing too buy into the narrative that schools were bad and failing. A bit of research might help When Scotland has one of the best education system in the world. More people got to uni (pro rata) One of the highest nos of unis (pro rata) ) College places for skills and jobs.

      Supporting additional needs. 1 in every 20? Or more undiagnosed. Very smart. Oftrn above the norm with special ability. . Everything that has been invented in the world has been by those on the spectrum. Too many end up in prison because of lack the recognised adequate support. Much cheaper and more worthwhile. Giving people proper respect. Indtead of lack of understanding of adversity. Not right. Support is much cheaper by far to understand diversity. Why some people act a certain diffent from the norm. Viva the differenence. Fun and loving as well with great love. All around.

      Tradesmen etc can earn a good living. Sometimes better than uni prospects. Good apprenticeships in skills and engineering etc. Increased nursery places. Helps main carers get into work. Shiny happy people really smart. Val did well out of her Scottish? education. Extremely well. Famous enough to go on the telly. Articulate and pleasant, writing doom and gloom.

      Just get the education facts right Do some research on it. Or go into schools to see the great, impressive work they are doing. Shinny happy places. There are bad apples in some barrels but most are excellent. They could not give children a better start. There is still room for improvement. Most stsff are excellent and need support from the community and the society.

      Kezia showing igorahce can’t count.or read a balance sheet. The diffebce in amounts £400,000 is diffence in the ratio of pupils pro rata of previous figures by comparison. Dugdale puts her dunces cap on claiming dumb. She probably know but wants to get sound bite in. Westminster cut £6billion a year from education funds. Cut Scotland’s budget. The Scottish Gov had to mitigate.

      The Scottish budget has been cut 10%.a year since 2010. Not right. A loss of over £3Billion+ . If Labour Blair had not started illegal wars costing £Billion the whole world vould have a better education system. Including the migrants. People killed and maimed. What an asolutely ignorant, useless incompetent, illegal action. .

      Ditto MUP. Labour did not support or vote for it, Monica Lennon, greeting vacant coupon, stood up in Parliament and gave an emotional address about her dad.With ‘thanks’ all round? but did not votevfor MUP to save lives and let people live longer. Not deid from alcohol poisoning.

    383. Ken500 says:

      Mrs just encourages them. Her being a Republic? Tut tut. No holding hands. No freebies. Everyone is paying for the nonsense. Switch off immediately. Or the van will be round. No licence? ISpy will shop you. Photo shopped out of the picture. A drone is not allowed for pictures, The cost policing of massive as well. People might have a peek ‘to see what the ‘bride’ is wearing. Who cares. A pantomime. Cinderella, buttons and ugly sisters might be more entertainment. Ah well. Each to their own.

      Not popular in Scotland. Anne went to Church of Scotland. Charles went to registar Quite appropriate. No taxpayers paying anymore for that. Gets £20Million pays £2Million in tax.

      The Royal cause mental health problems and lack of funding. Not paying their tax and tax evasion. Offshoring. Spending £Millions and supporting a regime sanctioning and starving people. £Thousands.for a dress and shoes. Marie Antoinette. Let then eat cake. The Tory Royals. Now lecturing about no killing animals. A chip off the old block. Lying hypocrites interfering.

    384. Jack Murphy says:

      Ross Thomson, Tory MP for Aberdeen South on BBC Question Time.

      Never heard of him ?

      Here he is in Iraq. 🙁

    385. Ken500 says:

      @ Mathewson former RBS chairman. Lloyds providing shipping industry insurance.

      Damn predictive text. Drives folk barmy. Grammar mistakes but get the drift. Try to sort them out Then wording slips back. Making even more. Small screen. Jumping. Eyes sore. Turning night into day. Must stop to take a break.

    386. Petra says:

      @ Tackety Beets says at 11:19 am … ”Indeed Petra, you will have no dispute from me about anything the BBC report. Regardless here is link for the avoidance of doubt :

      Tackety Beets I don’t think you get it. I don’t know a great deal about football but I DO know that Scotland isn’t 94th in the rankings. I understood that they were talking about the Scotland / Israel match however someone on the panel deliberately said that Scotland was 94th in the rankings, blatantly worded it in such a way, hence the reason I mentioned that ONE item only from BBC (UK) this morning.

    387. Highland Wifie says:

      @Dr Jim at 10.56
      🙂 🙂
      That’s why we love you Dr Jim.

    388. Davosa says:

      Ross Thompson MP – the thickest, most glaikit, fuckin half witted, brain donor with a face you would never tire of punching. The people of Aberdeen South most be so, so proud to have someone of his stature representing them .

    389. Meg merrilees says:


      Is this just me or has anyone else noticed that when you log on to the Wings site and scroll down to comment, your name e mail boxes are already filled in?

      Today my ‘website’ box contained the words “http deleted”…

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