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Trick or treat

Posted on October 29, 2016 by


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  1. 29 10 16 08:56

    Trick or treat | speymouth

185 to “Trick or treat”

  1. jdman says:

    Whoohoo im the coolest guy on my street!

  2. Dorothy Devine says:

    love it!

  3. Dorothy Devine says:

    I’d like to see some Chris cairns cartoons on billboards – their impact is superb!

  4. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Morning John, I dont have a street, I’m on top of a hill, and its certainly cool this morning.

    Looks like some Hallowe’en Hamish pish I see…

  5. jdman says:

    Aa set ma alarm special like.?

  6. jdman says:

    Hiya Alan,

  7. mumsyhugs says:

    Typical bull from John Bull!

    I agree about the billboards Dorothy – who needs words when you have Chris and Hamish 🙂

    And hi jdman – have you been AWOL? 🙂

  8. jdman says:

    Im on twitter learning how to be concise in a 140 characters or less. 🙁

  9. Arthur Martin says:

    Can’t wait for the day to come where we don’t go cap in hand, or bucket in hand, to John Bull for anything ever again. Independence is a normal state of being not the hysterical doom laden scenario that the Yoons make it out to be.
    Nice try Hamish…….better luck next time.

  10. Robert Louis says:

    Fact is, Nissan would NOT be investing in the UK with brexit if they had not been told, ‘no matter what, Westminster will underwrite any fees or tariffs you may face’. Special status for Nissan, but Scotland can just f*** off, and do what England says.

    I like the idea of Hamish on billboards, humour and a message.

  11. Tackety Beets says:

    Yet again another excellent “toon” , thanks Chris.

    This week we got the Nissan Deal & lets not forget Scotland Tonight (STV)with Fundily Mundily , “Scotland man in WM” stating clearly

    “It doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks”

    Surely a few more can see thro’ WM ?

  12. Clydebuilt says:

    T R I C K.

  13. cearc says:

    Good try, Hamish.

    Somehow I don’t think that treats are very likely.

  14. David Smith says:

    Hah! That’s him getting his bins cowped…
    Anybody up for a game of ‘shite alight’..? ?

  15. Black Joan says:

    Cairnstoons on billboards — yes, please!

  16. galamcennalath says:

    Another good one Chris.

    There’s no treats from WM, only tricks.

    Tackety Beets says:

    Fundily Mundily , “Scotland man in WM” stating clearly

    “It doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks”

    Howabout a cartoon of that on a billboard!

  17. In 1923 Benito Musselini made the front cover of Time magazine. In 1938 Adolf made the front cover of Time as their Man of the Year.
    Press Barons Lords Beaverbrook and Rothermere waxed eloquent about Hitler and the Nazi revolution in Germany in the ’30’s.The Times Mail and Express were full of the same stuff we are getting about Brexit now.
    Remind me; who won the Herald England’s Politician of the Year?
    Cairns, you are some man to be all the one man.
    Caught a wee snippet of BBC Radio News Where You Are when out for the rolls.
    They are shit scared now.

  18. PS Je suis Daniel Blake.

  19. winifred mccartney says:

    Chris Cairns cartoons on billboards – bring it on!!!! A bit of humour with a real punch – fantastic.

  20. ScottieDog says:

    Love it!

    Was reading about Lily Allen’s taxi experience. I’ve had conversations with colleagues in London about immigration and many times they say that we don’t have the same volume in Scotland. My reply to that is that if the policies of Westminster were more redistributive in nature they would find a much more even distribution of immigration UK wide. It’s not too difficult to understand.

  21. Stoker says:

    Re Hamish on billboards, think about it folks, you have a ready made billboard sitting unused, unless you live on the 40th-floor of a tower block.

    You can get an A1 size window poster (800mm X 600mm approx) made up by Vistaprint for £20-odd quid. Including your own large print message if you so wish.

    The finished glossy product is excellent and can be clearly seen and read from quite a distance. I’ve already had the Postie and various others in our street, and just passing through, stopping and having a good old laugh at the ‘Mayfly’ production.

    There are also other companies out there who do this sort of printing but i can’t vouch for the quality of their work, their pricing or the speed of delivery etc. You’ll have to investigate those yersels.

    Lets get these works of art and their messages into every wee nook n cranny across the length and breadth of Scotland and leave the billboard team to focus on The BBC.

    HEY, now there’s an idea Chris, how about creating a BBC/Hamish toon for us and the billboard team.

  22. JLT says:

    Yep! A Trick …and probably a dirty underhanded one too. The details will come out in the wash sooner or later. But, like any industry, word gets around within it.

    When I worked in the Financial Services industry in Edinburgh, it was no secret that the boards of 3 major insurance giants would meet up now and again for a dinner where they discussed the path that the industry must take in Scotland. The truth was, these companies weren’t competing with each other, they were making sure that their ‘ships’ all sailed serenely in the same direction (until well, I suppose, RBS ended that!), but, it showed that Directors of different companies were talking to each other, and sounding out ideas of where the market could, and should go.

    And we’re talking here of the Japanese. One of the most reserved, inscrutable and secret-guarding nations on the earth. If Nissan gets a deal, what about Honda? What about Toyota? What about Daihatsu, Suzuki, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Isuzu, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Mitsuoka, etc. As soon as Nissan got their ‘open’ (closed) deal, word will spread fast throughout Japan as to what Nissan got. The Japanese have a fairly closed market, and they protect their own. It won’t be long before those other companies want to come and chap on No. 10’s door looking for a nice little sweetener.

    And that’s just the Japanese.

    What about the Americans? What about the Koreans? What about the Chinese? And the Indians too!

    If, as most parts of the media are reporting that this was not just a company getting a fair agreement, then the EU will also be suspicious and will want to see the finer details of this deal. After all, the UK isn’t allowed to set up new post-EU deals while still part of the EU. The UK might be caught in a trap of its own making here; instead of just keeping it quiet, it needs to shout how well the UK is doing in a bid to keep other companies here also, but in doing so, it catches the attention of the EU. Any dodgy dealings will be dealt with severely. If there has been a breach, then expect the EU to turn the screw hard on Britain after Article 50 is invoked. It will most definitely be a hard Brexit as the EU, in its annoyance and fury, punishes the UK over it’s dodgy dealings while still a member of the EU.

    Even two major article in the Guardian have stated that they believe that a deal of sorts has been done. But just what was negotiated?

  23. Valerie says:

    Brilliant, love it.

    Some of the Cairnstoons would be brilliant on billboards.

  24. One_Scot says:

    So Maggie Mays ‘Brexit means Brexit’ is a Hard Brexit plus thousands of special deals for people the Yoons like.

    Well that’s us F’cked then.

  25. HandandShrimp says:

    Fluffy Muddle relaying the message given to him by May, like a good little gopher, that there will be no deal for Scotland pretty much rules out the Brexit talks being relevant.

    The question is just when do we have an Indyref2 vote not if.

  26. crazycat says:

    @ Tackety Beets and galamcennelath

    Re: Mundell and it not mattering what Scotland thinks – not having a TV, I didn’t see the clip of this until a link was posted on here, by Arbroath1320.

    When I watched that, what I heard him say was that it doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, the SNP are going to make us have a referendum anyway (I’m paraphrasing – I can’t face listening to it again to get his exact words).

    It seems to me that he is not saying that what we think doesn’t matter to him, but that it doesn’t matter to the SNP. In so saying, he is of course assuming that we all agree with him and don’t want a referendum, but unless I have totally misunderstood this, we should not be taking half a sentence out of context and using it to accuse him of disdain (which I agree he probably feels). It would be too easy for him to demonstrate that he did not mean it that way.

  27. mike cassidy says:

    JLT 9.25

    Those Guardian articles archived.

  28. Helena Brown says:

    Great cartoon but maybe next time we either send the lassies with Hamish or the “Pride”.

  29. Juan P says:

    Would love to see the Cairnstoons on billboards.

    Can we crowdfund this please?

  30. JLT says:

    @Mike Cassidy

    Cheers mate. I wasn’t sure if they had been archived. Trying to get through a power of work this morning and didn’t want to get too side-tracked by hunting down articles in archives. Cheers again!

  31. heedtracker says:

    So they rip up our hard earned EU citizenship in front of Scotland, tell us its all got f all to do with Scotland so shut up, via award winning Fluffie and the BBC creep show, then they charge us billions to pay for giant corps’ EU taxes.

    Thanks again proud Scot buts.

  32. DerekM says:

    Ahem that about sums it up Chris.

    Desperate to hide the big bluff that they are not in control of anything to do with brexit and like all yoon parties are now trying to throw tax payers money and empty promises of jam tomorrow so westminster so tory.

  33. Stoker says:

    JLT (@9:52am)

    You don’t have to hunt down articles in archive, just archive them yourself. If you don’t know how to archive just give a shout-out on here when you’re less busy and one of us will show you how.

    If you try to archive something which has previously been archived it will inform you of this and also give you the opportunity to archive it again etc.

    Hope this helps!

  34. louis.b.argyll says:

    Great cartoon.

    So, Scotland gets a Hard-cheese-Brexit.

  35. Smallaxe says:

    Got to be on billboards Chris.Great stuff.

    ????? Scotland!


  36. Graeme says:

    crazycat says:
    29 October, 2016 at 9:40 am

    @ Tackety Beets and galamcennelath

    Re: Mundell and it not mattering what Scotland thinks – not having a TV, I didn’t see the clip of this until a link was posted on here, by Arbroath1320.

    When I watched that, what I heard him say was that it doesn’t matter what Scotland thinks, the SNP are going to make us have a referendum anyway (I’m paraphrasing – I can’t face listening to it again to get his exact words).

    It seems to me that he is not saying that what we think doesn’t matter to him, but that it doesn’t matter to the SNP. In so saying, he is of course assuming that we all agree with him and don’t want a referendum, but unless I have totally misunderstood this, we should not be taking half a sentence out of context and using it to accuse him of disdain (which I agree he probably feels). It would be too easy for him to demonstrate that he did not mean it that way.

    I am so glad you made that point, I was was going to post the same thing but I couldn’t find the video to confirm my suspicions, we shouldn’t be taking what people say out of context just because it suits our agenda, leave that to the unionists


  37. heedtracker says:

    “Desperate to hide the big bluff that they are not in control of anything”

    Isnt that why we got 110% blanket BBC Scotland’s monstering Sturgeon can’t even run the NHS coverage all week? Focus minds, on what the BBC decide needs focusing.

  38. Smallaxe says:

    ????? Was in Japanese,sorry!

  39. Flower of Scotland says:

    It’s so exciting waiting to see if Hamish will appear on Saturday morning.

    Well tried Hamish, and well done Chris.

    I too think that some Hamish Toons on billboards would be a great hit with Adults and children too.

  40. DerekM says:

    Oh and a belated Happy Birthday Stu.

    Been away gathering intel in deepest separatist Ireland shhh but they think the English are fecked and that i should get the next round in to celebrate 🙂

  41. jimnarlene says:

    Hamish, along with the rest of us, is sick off John Bulls “hand outs”.

  42. crazycat says:

    @ Graeme

    Thanks – it bothers me that, despite all the “training” we get on here, people can still leap to conclusions, and something that is slightly (or sometimes more than slightly) wrong is all round social media in the blink of an eye.

    It then becomes “true” and no-one goes back to the original to check. I fear this could be counter-productive.

  43. heedtracker says:

    Been away gathering intel in deepest separatist Ireland shhh but they think the English are fecked

    They’re not. They are going to pay the trade taxes for all the businesses that sell to the EU. Its one of the most staggering acts of state subsidy ever seen in any western economy, next to the banks bail out, what the USA paid for.

  44. Breeks says:

    Hamish on billboards is inspired thinking.

    I’m raising both hands in support of that. I am still haunted by the one where Hamish watches our oil poured down the drain.

    Let’s make it happen.

  45. DerekM says:

    Aye @ heedtracker and it was trains before that next week coming to you its got to be the police then back to…..

    Round and round they spin digging that hole just a little deeper each day but you can see the tactic is attack public services blame the SNP and shhhh do not and i mean do not mention either tory election fraud or Brexit.

    We man doon in the official secrets(cover ups)cupboard will be stamping away with his wee stamper like a crazy man.

  46. Hamish100 says:

    Hamish on billboards!! When was I consulted?
    Good idea though

    Shereen on BBC . Jardine failed lib dem spends an hour critical of all snp!! Same last week. Serene Shereen just giggles.

    Jardine was helping Hillary Clint last week in the US!!! I am amazed she was allowed back into the uk with such an ego! Can see why Alex Salmond won the election.

  47. Black Joan says:

    Yoons don’t do humour, but we have Hamish and Chris.

    Posters, billboards, Hamish stickers even?

    Crowdfunder, if Chris approves/agrees?

  48. harry mcaye says:

    crazycat – Spot on. It really, really annoys me, some of the things I’ve been seeing on twitter. What Mundell says is bad enough without twisting it but this so-called quote must have been re-tweeted hundreds of times. Some very ill-informed folk with 1000s of followers. Leave the mis-information to the Unionists that we point and laugh at!

  49. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Turned on radio, it’s a gaggle of voices parroting ‘SNP bad’ about Heathrow. There’s something ‘going on’…Sturgeon’s struck a deal…the honeymoon is over…

    It would be nice for once – just once – to hear the chitterati exercising their intelligence on something positive, e.g. what might look better in an indy Scotland. Just once. But nah, that’s not going to happen is it?

    Just endless bitching and moaning.

    I’m properly fucking sick of it.

  50. DerekM says:

    @ heedtracker

    neo-liberalism heed run it into the ground crash the ass of everything while betting it will happen,sterling is hemorrhaging to other currencies but all the sparkly shiny things only billionaires can afford to trade in are doing very well.

    Thatcher trickle down economics what we see is a massive please please do not leave before A50 is concluded here take some of the oiks cash we will make them pay more for their jam.

  51. snode1965 says:

    It has been revealed that the UK government has issued Nissan with a “letter of understanding “,guaranteeing that Brexit will cause them no detriment.

  52. Grouse Beater says:

    We are not alone, Chris: A people betrayed:

  53. Graeme says:

    snode1965 says:
    29 October, 2016 at 11:14 am

    “It has been revealed that the UK government has issued Nissan with a “letter of understanding “,guaranteeing that Brexit will cause them no detriment.”

    Presumably our letter will be in the post no doubt


  54. Bob Mack says:

    Hamish—- billboards——inspired. I suppose it’s up to Chris though. I would gladly stick in a bit to fund that.

    The message is usually funny but devastating from Chris.and what a slap on the head to all those moaning about the campaign.

  55. Liz g says:

    STV did their bit yesterday
    Glasgow accent least posh in the UK

  56. mr thms says:

    Nice cartoon..


    I’m amazed by how much the Scotland Act 1998 has grown since the additions of the Scotland Act 2012 and the Scotland Act 2016.

    It’s worth looking at. This item caught my attention.

    “SCHEDULE 5, Reserved matters, Part I, General reservations, The Constitution”

    “1 The following aspects of the constitution are reserved matters, that is—”

    “(b)the Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England,”

    Happy Halloween

  57. Bob Mack says:

    Hamish in Japanese is pronounced Hei Mi Sshu. Almost like( I miss you.)
    I am sure The UK would miss us very much indeed. Just as much if not more than Nissan.

  58. snode1965 says:

    Graeme @11.21,
    Aye? Don’t be holding your
    Should be interesting at Westminster this week, watching the Tory attempts to avoid public scrutiny of this letter.

  59. MajorBloodnok says:

    Aha, brilliant cartoon Chris. Laughed out loud. 🙂

  60. Lochside says:

    Watched Gregg Clark ‘Business Secretary’ on QT blatantly lying as only a sociopathic tory can, about how the UK Gov never promised any subsidy, ‘no money involved’ to Nissan.

    You, me and hundred thousands of other Scots watched this facsimile of a human being lying with impunity and knew it to be a total out and out lie. He sat there using the open handed, spread finger body language lie, like a foppish anglo saxon Edward Scissorhands. I can’t take much more of this total fucking charade.

  61. The Rough Bounds says:

    Aye, a very clever cartoon indeed.

    But that title ‘Trick or Treat’. It’s a horrible Americanism that has landed here within the last 20-30 years, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the real message of Hallowe’en.

    If we don’t hang onto our own culture and history then what is the point of independence?

  62. John H. says:

    The UK gov. seem to be very confident that they can strike a deal to their liking with the EU. Since they have made it clear to the other members of the club that the UK will be a full member until Brexit is completed, do they intend to use their veto to blackmail the EU into giving them everything they want? They could certainly slow down business at least. Unless my understanding of the veto is completely wrong.

  63. Dr Jim says:

    Whatever happens in Scotland the one thing the the Tories can be sure of is we’ll never vote Tory so why should they give a flying Fukc what they do to us

    David Cameron was praised for OFFERING us a referendum so the people could decide
    Nicola Sturgeon is THREATENING us with the same thing

    Brexit will create massive problems but will be an opportunity say the Tories
    Nicola Sturgeon says what are the opportunities then?
    The tories answer is shut up and make the best of the opportunities
    Yeah but what are they says Nicola
    Stop whingeing and make the best of the opportunities say the Tories
    Pretty please tell us what the opportunities are says Nicola Sturgeon
    Look, we don’t want to talk to you Jocks anymore about this here’s a phone number we’re not going to answer
    and we’re telling you straight Fukc right off we don’t care what you want or what you think you horrible stupid Scroats
    we’re taking your money and anything else we want and you’ll lose another referendum coz the Scroaties of Scroatyland are gutless cowards and will do as they’re told

    We win
    Signed: The Tories

  64. Clootie says:

    Very clever. Chris you deserve fame and fortune. Unfortunately the unionists will ensure you never land a major contract…you have to grovel as a loyal “British” subject to get rewarded in the media.

  65. RogueCoder says:

    Chris Cairns does it again. Absolutely love the man’s work 🙂

    Sorry for the OT, but I could really use some help. Our crowdfunder is in the doldrums and we really need to deliver these five projects before #indyref2. Ronnie also needs a new gazebo for the Wings stall, so y’know, any help you can give RT-ing or spreading around social media would be really appreciated!

    This five projects are about getting campaign materials into the hands of grassroots activists on the ground before the ‘phoney war’ turns into a real political battleground. The Tories are already out there, funding Scotland in Union and other astroturf ‘campaigns’. Any and all help appreciated!–4/x/6905220#/

  66. DerekM says:

    Yea i agree but can we stop using the term billboard and call it what it is advertising.

    And before the Rev whacks me with his hammer its not a dirty word lol

    If Asda can go on TV and do a promo using other companies to say why they claim to be the best then so can any media outlet do the same to the BBC,the BBC has no problem cutting promos on their competitors.

    Reality is we are surrounded by adverts we should use them if only to find out if we can,since the first time we tried it well mixed results shall we say lol

    Its edgy in your face and is probably going to make the yoons scream all sort of rubbish trying to stop it happening and for that reason on its own i say lets do it lol

  67. Grouse Beater says:

    If English, my cruise ship docking in Gibraltar for the day … I’d stay on board and lock the cabin door!

  68. Artyhetty says:

    Fantastic image! Spot on, and yes some billboards would be really good, with Chris’s drawings.

    Regards what Mundell said, it doesn’t really matter in what context, it was still an insult, and totally disrespectful of the people of Scotland. No idea why anyone would stand up for him, he would sell Scotland down the river quick as a flash.

    If his comment was SNP bad, it was then a twisting of the truth by someone who is meant to have Scotland’s interests at heart. His message was clear, and we could even look at it as a projection of what he really is saying about his own and his party’s attitude towards Scotland.

    Scotland doesn’t matter, except for all of the resources and revenues being taken by his pals in WM while leaving Scotland in the s**t!

    Was livid at the bastrds refusing to allow post study visas to foreign students in Scotland, imagine how this will affect funding, as well as having skilled people contributing to Scotland’s progress in all sorts of ways. WM are stifling Scotland, massively. It is despicable. (Far as I recall, Uni’s in south of england have post study visas, cos they are special).

    We need out before brexit, otherwise wave bye bye to so many things that the SNP have improved on, in the few short years of leadership, against huge odds.

  69. Luigi says:

    Hamish cartoons would make brilliant billboards but timing is crucial for satire. Perhaps it could be done, but billboard space/time would have to be booked well in advance, with Chris ready to quickly produce something relevant (that week) in the public mind. Just ordering weeks from now and putting up “old” topics and jokes would be far less effective.

    Chris’s wonderful sketches are definitely “for the moment”, so careful advance planning (for the next scandal) would have to be considered. 🙂

  70. call me dave says:

    I think you distilled the facts of the matter perfectly!


    Fidelma Cook: I despair for an England that has lost all honour

    Axed Labour veterans stand against party

  71. Betty Boop says:

    @ JLT, 9:25am

    Bang on, JLT! There is no way Nissan “changed” its mind. Got to be a deal, so, the doors are open and might just as easily be closed. Any government so desperate is not in control of anything.

    @ jdman

    Nice to see you about, John. You’re like buses, not seen for a while, then a when o’ them turn up thegither 🙂 Say hi to your good lady.

  72. Grouse Beater says:

    Duly sent to ‘Ruthie’ and dear, sweet JK:

  73. galamcennalath says:

    Another piece from Derek Bateman.

    I think he hits the nail on the head (and that’s not a threat) about all involved with Yes2 behaving like reasonable people at all times.

    I agree with Derek that people switching from NO to YES need to believe more than just facts, they need to feel they are joining the decent side of the debate. The Tories and WM are now the face of the Union – decent they are not! We need the Indy side to be the voice of common sense and moderation.

  74. yesindyref2 says:

    @harry mcaye @carazycat + others
    Yes, the rubbish memes that go around and still go around drive me up the wall. Some of them are so stupid, any soft no or undecided will just shake their heads and think “nutters”.

    An example that still goes around is the Kuznetsov, a huge non-stealth dirty smoke, hot funnel, high infra-red signature, 20 year old aircraft carrier probably visible from about 6 satellites on its way from Murmansk, or the North Atlantic on a planned exercise, 6 satellites which poinpoint position to about an inch, plus one or two subs at all times with 100 to 200 mile sonar range in watchful attendance, suddenly turns up in the Moray Firth 3 years ago, and is only spotted by a fishing boat on Twitter.

    And yet you point this out and people go back to their fantasy delusion.

  75. heedtracker says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    29 October, 2016 at 1:49 pm
    Duly sent to ‘Ruthie’ and dear, sweet JK:

    Fascinating Brexit reality GB, and total opposite of tory BBC led ongoing and massive, “Brexit’s a UKOK triumph” propaganda blitz. Most weird BBC, Brexit’s had no bad effect on the UK at all, in fact its really weally great, vote tory.

    Filthy rich English lady Rowling wont like “English xenophobia” but that’s all it comes down to.

    Also interesting, watch SLabour in action, so far all of them have ducked away from Brexit like their running from a tidal wave, not a SLab mention anywhere starting at Bliar McDougal and working down his twitter suggests Bliar’s chums list.

    None of the crew even mention Brexit, its just NHS is really shite in Scotland, and neatly coordinated with the BBC Scotland freak show’s week long NHS monstering. Funny that.

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  76. Meg merrilees says:

    mr thms @11.33

    Thanks for the link – if you look a little further down it states that:

    “..Paragraph 1 does not reserve—
    (a)Her Majesty’s prerogative and other executive functions,..”

    Could be about to get really interesting!

    Great cartoon and brilliant reading about the Gibralter reaction!

  77. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    … SLabour in action, so far all of them have ducked away from Brexit like their running from a tidal wave …

    I suppose their excuse would be, Brexit is a reserved matter! Being a reserved matter never stops them talking about something when they think there’s a SNPBaaad angle to it, though.

    The three Unionist parties representatives in Scotland can’t ignore Brexit indefinitely. To say it will impact negatively on Scotland, has to be the understatement of the century.

    Davidson is going to have to stand up and defend her party’s antics. That should be entertaining.

    Dugdale and Rennie are going to need to think long and hard where they stand if Brexit turns dirty. That could become a game changer, for Scotland and their parties.

  78. mike d says:

    In Ayr high St at 11am today,yoons at their table vying for signatures to stop indy 2 when i passed by again at 1 pm, they had taken their table and butchers apron, and pissed off lmao.yes indeed the people of Scotland are on to these ar****les.

  79. Grouse Beater says:

    Heedytracker: “Fascinating Brexit reality GB, and total opposite of tory BBC led ongoing and massive, “Brexit’s a UKOK triumph””

    I had to cut down the essay; too many angry comments to publish at once!

  80. Breeks says:

    If I was a gambling man, I would bet whatever the UK government did or did not promise Nissan is chickenfeed compared to the deal the Chinese got over Hinckley Point. Then again, that deal spans tens of thousands of years, so once you level it out, maybe Nissan is a better bung in the longer term…

    I’m curious whether these subsidy deals are top secret because they would fall foul of EU law by restricting competition, and further perhaps represent Unilateral trade deals with non EU members.

    Britain waives the rules as usual.

    Every inch of me wants out of this union at the earliest possible opportunity. I cannot “un-see” what a total sham it is.

  81. mike d says:

    Proud cybernat,been busy today in ayr with your “BBC misreporting Scotland stickers “lol.

  82. galamcennalath says:

    mike d says:

    yoons at their table vying for signatures to stop indy 2

    They had their chance in the elections in May. They put their case for no Indy. Pro Indy parties said there would be IndyRef2 if forced by significant constitutional changes. The EU was explicitly referred.

    A new parliament was duly elected with a pro Indy majority. The pro Union side is in a minority.

    The Tories had their Brexit vote and as a result IndyRef2 is on the table.

    A bit late to be asking for signatures now!

    The Yoons do dream of stopping it, one way or another.

  83. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath, Grouse Beater, throughout ref 1, major SLabour dudes had the BBC soap box all to themselves to scream vote NO, YES is just for “Narrow Nationalism!” and don’t build a border, borders are very bad things, very bad indeed, stand together in the borderless UK with your fellow Brits, who really love Scotland, its just the SNP they hate, and no wonder eh?

    So here we are and within 2 UKOK years of NO, exact same major SLab dudes are completely mute, ignore Brexit, focus entirely on everything SNP bad and behind their non Scotland/England border at Berwick, because they’re so not narrow nationalist n shit.

    And all of it led and coordinated by BBC Vote NO Scotland. Their dishonesty and cowardice is breathtaking/service normal, yoon style.

  84. Meg merrilees says:

    Breeks 2.49

    Re ‘Done deals’ and Chinese/Hinckley point – don’t forget, there is a Chinese consortium behind the new Heathrow bid. Wonder if that was part of the Hinckley point deal?

    As for Britain ruling the ‘waives’ – King Canute springs to mind and we know what happened to him!

  85. Orri says:

    The thing is that Nissan only really give a shit about the bottom line. The way things have panned out so far the Euro cost for parts sourced outside the UK hasn’t significantly changed. Those in the UK have a higher Sterling cost for materials but that’s not relevant. At this moment the cost for construction of a car for sale in the EU has had a significant drop. Potentially that drop might be enough to allow them to cut the price enough that if an import fee were imposed they’d still make a profit.

    The conclusion is that if the government works to either directly impose a pay freeze or to slow or ameliorate increases in the cost of living then there’s no need for a bung for Nissan or any manufacturer thinking of leaving. Just keep the UK a low wage economy and assure at least some entry of goods into the rEU

  86. heedtracker says:

    galamcennalath says:
    29 October, 2016 at 2:08 pm
    Another piece from Derek Bateman.

    I think he hits the nail on the head (and that’s not a threat) about all involved with Yes2 behaving like reasonable people at all times.

    Don’t frighten the NO vote, by saying BBC Scotland is misreporting, is an argument for another time, a past era of deference and obedience to the good and the great, in all the tory BBC clone newsrooms across teamGB.

    It takes a complete change in mindset to stand up tell the biggest gob shite in the room to shut up and piss off. And its a mindset that has a switch.

    Or look at newsprint sales, all going down faster than the UKOK pound.

  87. gus1940 says:

    One of the comments above talks about individuals getting commercial printers to produce one off posters at no doubt substantial cost. .

    There is another option for those who want to produce their own posters.

    I have on my machine the following 2 bits of software which I downloaded from the net for free:-

    Easy Poster Printer

    These allow one to produce from any image file posters as big as one desires with the image being broken down to print on multiple A4 sheets.

    All it costs is paper,ink, a roll of sellotape or masking tape and a bit of patience to stick the multiple sheets together.

    Close up the joins may be visible but from any distance the results look fine – it’s only following the same display method as the giant screens at sports stadia.

  88. Joe of the Coutts says:

    Breeks 2.49
    ‘As for Britain ruling the ‘waives’ – King Canute springs to mind and we know what happened to him!’
    Yes but – Canute meant to show that the waves would not cease, even for him.

  89. Andy-B says:

    Nice one Chris – alas I fear, it will be trick all the way.

  90. schrodingers cat says:

    world tour of north east fife yesnef cavalcade great success, if the folks of st andrews and cupar were unaware that indyref2 was happening, they are now.

    big thanks to all the wingers who made the effort to join us

  91. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Or look at newsprint sales, all going down faster than the UKOK pound.”

    No’ so sure about that. Pound is taking a real tanking of late. Has to be the all-time race to the bottom.

  92. Black Joan says:

    Yes, King Canute is the victim of BBCUKOK-type propaganda and regularly gets held up as an example of idiocy.

    In fact he was pissed off by all the flatterers and sycophants that swarmed around him, telling him how wonderful he was, he could control the tides etc, etc.

    He set out to demonstrate that he had no power whatsoever over the sea but the ancient equivalent of the Daily Sexpress wrote a headline ridiculing him for arrogance and he has been misreported ever since.

  93. Liz g says:

    Breeks @ 2.49
    The bit I don’t understand is when did , what the government did with our money become confidential across the board.

    A wee bit of national security fair enough, but why isn’t everything else being looked at.

    Go in and do a deal on our behalf…fair enough…but a least when they have put something in place we should all know what it was surely?
    And that’s no even a Scottish Independence position!

    Orri 3.08
    While I can’t fault your argument I so hope you are wrong .
    It does make sense though, we need to get out of this Union more than ever.

    Joe of the coutts @ 3.36
    Aye, You know that, I know that,Wingers know that .
    Scary thing is the amount of Scot’s who don’t.
    But the lesson of King Canute sum’s it up perfectly,question is has Westminster ever learned it?

  94. heedtracker says:

    No’ so sure about that. Pound is taking a real tanking of late. Has to be the all-time race to the bottom

    But according to our imperial master baiters and their BBC, its great news.

    Nothing exemplifies how toryboy corrupt our chums in the UKOK media really are, when it comes to Scottish democracy and their staggering catastrofuck Brexit.

  95. Meg merrilees says:

    Joe of the Coutts and Black Joan – I referred to Canute, not Breeks. Sorry.
    Seems I’ve been fooled by the propaganda version then!

    As I see it, the South Britain lot are in cloud cuckoo land.
    They think ‘ we will get the best possible deal for the UK’ or, basically, we can wave our magic wand and it will all be ok, Europe will agree to our terms because they need us; meanwhile, we and the rest of Europe look at them and think ‘do they not see the huge tsunami heading their way’ hence the reference to Canute.

    Still think they are ‘not waving but drowning’, only, they don’t know it yet!

  96. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Nothing exemplifies how toryboy corrupt our chums in the UKOK media really are, when it comes to Scottish democracy and their staggering catastrofuck Brexit.”

    Come on, now. Play the game…

  97. Proud Cybernat says:

    “…They think ‘ we will get the best possible deal for the UK’ or, basically, we can wave our magic wand and it will all be ok..”

    You mean like this…?

  98. Terry says:

    I think the billboards are a good idea. I also think Chris cartoons for billboards are brilliant. This one is top notch.

  99. call me dave says:

    Nissan car plant investment brings pressure on ministers to reveal Brexit assurances

  100. galamcennalath says:

    Meanwhile, in South Britain. The unwaveringly optimistic nationalism displayed by the Telegraph is something else. Here are a few headlines from the last couple of weeks.

    – Brexit has reversed the long decline of post-imperial Britain

    – Britain can still shape the global political order after Brexit

    – Survey: Scottish independence threat causing more economic damage than Brexit

    – Four reasons why banks won’t leave the City of London after Brexit

    – Calm down. We don’t need a negotiating stance on Brexit

    – Brexit means we’re leaving the EU. It’s not a crisis. It’s an exercise in democracy

    – Theresa May needs to bring Europe with her in order to secure the best Brexit

    – Remainers and Eurocrats will never bully the British people into giving up on Brexit

    You’d think they were just a tad biased in favour of Brexit 🙂

  101. handclapping says:

    I suspect Chris only gives us Hamish as he enjoys drawing John Bull so much. Great cartoon, Chris.

    “… and of course if we are out of the Common Market, then its not an illegal subsidy any more. Clever, eh what!”

  102. heedtracker says:

    What could go wrong? Or, just another day on planet toryboy. Rancid headers, what in teamGB is a government funded charidy, run by tory roasters, like our Tobes etc…

    “Toby Young to take over as head of New Schools Network

    Tory journalist and co-founder of West London Free School vows to be ‘non-partisan’ as director of government-funded charity”

  103. velofello says:

    Billboard posters: Dorothy Devine’s proposal is spot on. Derek Bateman, who I much appreciate, found the need to caution, and then explain his comments on the BBC perceived bias. Chris’s cartoons are not offensive, they reflect the view of many of us, and might just get the “Mr and Mrs Scott” of middle income Scotland thinking.

    Over to you Chris and the Rev. Why not talk to the persons proposing the billboard campaign, to use Chris’s material, and agree a fee with Chris for each contribution used on a billboard.
    I would certainly contribute to a crowd fund with the Rev’s hand on the tiller.

  104. galamcennalath says:

    Wow! Chris is always on the ball. How things have changed!

  105. Graeme says:

    Re the billboards

    I donated because it sometimes feels like were trying to argue our case without a voice like were gagged, the establishment has a virtual monopoly on information through newspapers & broadcasting and the billboards are a way to get our message across,

    the concept of the billboards is a good one (these billboards in the right locations could potentially reach a wider audience than all the main stream newspapers put together) it’s the content that seems to be questionable and it’s the content that will determine their effectiveness.

    I don’t know if the “Misreporting Scotland” message is a good idea or not and I accept there could be some merit to the stance taken by Common Space & Derek Bateman on it I’m not qualified in these matters to give an informed opinion, but I think we should listen to each other and work together towards a common and just

    If I understand it right informscotland are purchasing these sites which I presume means they can be used for other messages, Chris’s cartoons sound like a great idea although perhaps difficult to implement but where’s there’s a will anything’s possible so lets work together and get it right, there’s too much at stake to get it wrong


  106. starlaw says:

    BBC Bias, never heard of any phone-ins re NHS England and Wales. Never heard BBC describe NHS as belonging to Theresa May. Last Thursday began with MSM attack on Nichola Sturgeon and the Scottish NHS then BBC radio news carried it on until First Ministers Questions when the cudgels were taken up by the three parrots of doom. This was clearly a planned attack lead from one source.

  107. defo says:

    Where’s the (un) welcome mat ?
    Your work is maturing nicely Chris, like a ripening Camembert.

    In the last episode, can John do a Benito please ?

  108. Meg merrilees says:

    I think Chris’s cartoons are more powerful than the written word.
    The image sticks, think of the Mayfly!

    The message is subliminal – (see most recent cartoon link above) – they’re going to blow up our bridge to Europe- it crystallises a specific aspect of the message instantly.

    It shows we have a sense of humour, but the satire is a sharper sword than any ‘whingeing’, written words.

    The visual message is assimilated quicker than words.

    Big plus, no-one else is doing it this way and they are SO beautifully drawn!

    Could we put a web-site address on the poster, where people could obtain a car-sticker or smaller poster of the cartoon? Before you know it, they would be showing up all over Scotland!

  109. Iain More says:

    Would anybody here dook for an apple around a Brit Tory? They might think it was an initiation for the Gaveston Gang?

  110. Rock says:

    Robert Louis,

    “Fact is, Nissan would NOT be investing in the UK with brexit if they had not been told, ‘no matter what, Westminster will underwrite any fees or tariffs you may face’. Special status for Nissan, but Scotland can just f*** off, and do what England says.”

    Yes, Scotland, remains a colony of England for over 300 years and some deluded Scots keep banging on about our pretendy “sovereignty”.

    The only colonised “sovereign” people on the planet.

    Get real and then we might become independent.

    Ancient laws have not protected us for more than 300 years and we are completely deluded if we think we can rely on them to bring us independence.

  111. yesindyref2 says:

    Saw the HMS Blyth out of my window earlier before she moved over to Bute, and it reminded me that an important contingent of the Scottish Navy would be mine countermeasure ships, perhaps 4. We need them anyway because of the still-existing Second World War ordinance kicking around (though rare these days), and it would be a substantial component of our contribution to NATO – e.g. Nato Mine Counter Measure Group 1, the UK contributes 1 ship. But also to Gulf operations.

    Blyth (Sandown Class) – Crew 34 presumably including the divers. Armament: 1 × 30mm DS30M Mk2 gun, 2 × Miniguns, 3 × General purpose machine guns. Cost per MCMV approx £50 million, per annum 1/8th the cost of a T23.

  112. sandycraig says:

    starlaw 6.32

    ” three parrots of doom ” love that, but vultures would fit as well.

  113. Lobbey says:

    See old Duncky accusing a ‘ Wings hate mob ‘ of hounding Kirsty Strickland off twitter.
    Did someone say something mean?

  114. Tam Jardine says:

    With all this talk of Misreporting Scotland I did something I almost never do and took a look at the BBC Scotland News section of their website. They do seem to be very thorough in one aspect of their output. Here is a list of their main headlines from today (which you can view here:

    Volunteers join missing student search

    ‘Ecstasy’ warning after boys fall ill

    SPORT Murray to face Tsonga in Vienna final

    Man assaulted after leaving work

    Woman injured after being hit by van

    Appeal to trace missing teenager

    SPORT Rangers halved losses to £3.3m

    Diners evacuated after restaurant blaze

    Dentists issue ‘Halloween horror’ warning

    Man accused of murdering baby

    Three arrests over police murder bid

    Refugee worker guilty of racist abuse

    I include an archive so no-one thinks I have missed out any good news. The only 2 items of news that could be termed positive are the 2 sport headlines but even they could go either way- Rangers debt is of no concern to me whatsoever and Tsonga will be quite a challenge in the final I imagine.

    I keep reading that the BBC doesn’t have a meeting of half a dozen yoons dripping with bile and poison of a morning while they work out how to do Scotland down and it is all some kind of ingrained culture instead.

    How do they put out a website that has nothing but news of death, disease, crime, drug abuse, racial abuse and sport?

    Is that cultural? Do these headlines reflect the Scotland we live in today? Was there really not one single good piece of news that happened up here worthy of a headline from our state broadcaster?

    Despite most crime stats being at a record low- are we in fact caught up in some kind of tide of evil? Has some kind of portal opened up and cenobites are streaming out? Or is that the morn?

  115. John Edgar says:

    My dell and the Tories. The No voters of non-Tory yoon persuasion take note. You ate included in Mundell’s contempt!
    No means Nothing, remember!
    My dell has made it clear, his No 10 message is to say “shove off”. So, no point in getting angry, just get even.

  116. louis.b.argyll says:

    Rock, I think it’s you, that’s ‘pretendy’.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    The Law is on our side, that’s the point that folks keep making, and rightly so.

    Laws are made by people standing by a principal.

  117. Capella says:

    @ Dave McEwan Hill – that was indeed worth reading. John Pilger has always been a great journalist, prepared to tell the truth. What a contrast to the BBC lackeys we are used to.

    There’s an interesting discussion on Crosstalk on 7th October about the “White Helmets”. They are funded by the Foreign Office apparently. Our media lie about what is happening in Syria.

    What I detest is the theft of our resources – financial, psychological, human resources i.e. our children’s lives, and other people’s lives, to line the pockets of arms manufacturers and their apologists in Westminster.

    As Pilger says, if the journalists had done their job, there would have been no Iraq War and the evil consequences which still flow from that.

  118. Legerwood says:

    Tam Jardine @ 8.17

    The BBC news Scotland web site now has a ‘nice news’ section. Not sure if it appears every day – can’t have too much of a good thing

  119. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Re: Chris Cairns/Hamish billboards.

    I think they should use Hamish as the link between them.

    Also, I think this is my all-time favourite.

  120. Meg merrilees says:

    Legerwood and Tam Jardine

    I just noticed the BBC Scotland ‘Nice News’ Section for the first time about 5 minutes ago!!

    don’t think it’s been there before? I was going to say that there are always really great pictures of Scotland sent in every week by general public and I always have a look at those, but agree it’s all pretty grim stuff!

    Andy Murray through to the finals tomorrow and if he wins he will only be about 900 points behind Djokovic and within sight of world Number One! C’mon Andy.

  121. Tam Jardine says:

    OK- not too much activity so I don’t feel like I am derailing the thread with another departure into constitutional history.

    The 17th century is a mess in terms of the monarchies in the British Isles, without going into the English monarchy being extinguished while the Scottish monarchy continued followed by the restoration of the English monarchy and the abolition of the English parliament.

    James VII fled abroad and the Scottish Parliament convened and decided he had forfeited the throne. They selected Mary II (and II of England strangely) and William II of Orange (and III of England) over James Francis Edward Stuart. This single act of proddie fervour appears to just render everything that follows null, void and faintly ridiculous.

    What I don’t get is the Act of Settlement- it was passed by the English Parliament in June 1701 prior to the abdicated/deposed/rightful King of Scots James VII’s death and obviously at that time we were a completely independent state.

    So if the law passed preventing James’ second and, again legitimate claim to the crown of Scotland was only passed in England in 1701 and finally enshrined in law in Scotland in 1707 through the treaty of union… surely the whole thing is a complete bogie?

    Surely monarchy is succession or it is nothing- either we have no monarch or it is Francis II, Duke of Bavaria, no? Some fudge during the dodgy deal whereby the 850 year old Scottish monarchy is rubbed out by a piece of paper signed by some tractors in Edinburgh.

    My ignorance of these things is something to behold at times so don’t jump down my throat if I have made any gaffs… but surely when Franz of Bavaria passes (or whoever else is deemed the righful heir) surely we as a people just recognise the next in line rather than one of these windsors?

    I would happily have a republic but if we are going to have some random German it may as well be someone with a legitimate claim. Or did that 5 year period in the early 18th century where the Scottish Crown appears hovering in mid air just mean the end of our monarchy? The Scottish crown appears to have passed, after William’s death in 1702 to someone as decreed by Claim of Right Act and so is arbitrarily passed a second time to someone with zero claim.

  122. yesindyref2 says:

    So basically speaking I’ve done some careful research into this, looking for the Constitution for “YES 2 We Do”, and since I haven’t found one I’ve written one up sensitively and with all due regard to my opinion, voted on it in everyone’s constitutional absence, and having decided in advance that a quorum is a unum so only 1 person was present or indeed needed, the Constitution stands and it has just one clause and ‘yrtis:

    “yesindyref2 is the boss, he big great leader of all those who think he’s wonderful and wise, and as for the rest of you 100% the same goes, do what I he says or else”.

    And my first absolute punishable on pain of having to buy a year’s worth of marmite at Morrison’s at a price increase of 12% decree is this:

    “As you were. Carry on chaps and chapesses, don’t let the beegers grind you down”.

    e pluribus unum! (just as long as it’s me me me me me me)

  123. Valerie says:

    A LOT of speculation about Carney resigning. If the guy has any sense, he will leave the clown show now, with his reputation intact. The Brexiteers are doing their best to tear him down.

    And, this really proves the insanity, one paper saying Rees-Mogg, Carneys biggest critic, could take over.

    As we know, they are sick of experts.

    Just when you think it’s bad, along comes a bigger shit show.

    We are the laughing stock of the world.

  124. Tam Jardine says:

    Legerwood and Meg merrilees

    Just clocked the BBC Scotland “Nice News” section. Only BBC Scotland would quarantine happy bits of good news in a seperate little vault for fear they might infect all the routine bad news.

  125. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh and by the way – billboarders (great name) – it’s pretty obvious those who are criticising the campaign didn’t contribute so they have no say, and as one of those who contributed via my son the grand old sum of £5 it had no strings attached, though I would like my 1/1700th to be sky-blue puce, if you can manage it.

    So do what you like – it’s your campaign and you worked hard for it.

    Carpe diem!

  126. Tam Jardine says:


    I’m a fellow billboarder and am starting to think this stushie is maybe not the worst thing in the world for the movement- the billboards themselves have the same effect but any criticism aimed at the movement and SNP/Yes can say: “nothing to do with us”. A bit like the pacific quay protests.

    How vary asymmetric of us

  127. Tam Jardine says:

    …and Wings over Scotland for that matter… doh!

    What do they call it? Plausible deniability?

  128. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Tam Jardine –

    Hey man, at least you’re making an effort to get to grips with this stuff.

    Most of us haven’t the time or inclination to bother with it at all, and that makes the job of people like Mundell so much easier – he can just trot out inanities in the certain knowledge that few folk will know what he’s on about, even fewer will be able to identify the lies he’s telling, and fewer still will be moved to do or say anything about it.

    In Tom Steel’s ‘Scotland’s Story’, he quotes Francis Osborne:

    ‘The king’s kissing them after so lascivious a mode in public and upon the theatre, as it were, of the world, prompted many to imagine some things done in the retiring-house, that exceed my expressions no less than they do my experience.’ (p. 109)

    Steel, there, is referring to James VI/I openly ‘winching’ young guys.

    The Union of the Crowns effectively ended Scottish literary culture because the centre of patronage packed his bags and fucked-off to London. And for what? It’s sheer bunkum to ignore something so crucial as sexuality when it comes to these important events. James went to London, took the ‘Court’ with him, and that was that. Presumably he was then free to be who he wanted to be, or, at any rate, free-er than he would’ve been in Scotland. Fair do’s, aye, but we i.e. Scotland lost so much as a result. We lost The Makars, and all the tradition they represented. Any simple survey of their work, and how abruptly it ceased, proves the point.

    Hey man, me’s no historian, but sometimes you see wee facts here and there and ye can’t help but make links. So far as I can see, the 1707 ‘union’ would’ve been all-but impossible had the 1603 gig been avoided. Whether or not it could’ve been? That’s beyond my ken, but others will have a view.

    Hoots brother, as aye.


  129. Robert Peffers says:

    Rock says: 29 October, 2016 at 7:13 pm:
    Robert Louis,
    Yes, Scotland, remains a colony of England for over 300 years and some deluded Scots keep banging on about our pretendy “sovereignty”.

    ” … Ancient laws have not protected us for more than 300 years and we are completely deluded if we think we can rely on them to bring us independence.”

    The deluded one is no other that you, Rock. These are NOT ancient laws they are the current law system used in Scotland every day of the week.

    What’s more it is being legally enforced every hour of every day of the week. The thing that prevents Scotland enforcing it is because of the unionists that want it the way it is.

    I could reel off lots of things people take for granted that are different in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. For example there has never been an English style law of trespass in Scotland due to the people of Scotland being sovereign.

    A few years ago the High Court of Scotland ruled that the English law which allowed the owners of private land to clamp a vehicle parked on private land and then demand a stiff fee for its release were criminals guilty of a criminal offence. It was termed, “Demanding Money with Menace”.

    There is also no English style law of Blackmail under the law of Scotland. It is called coercion in Scotland. These actual laws were just being ignored by people and not being enforced because of the kind of total ignorance you so often exhibit.

    It was common in Scotland to see notices on private land proclaiming that the land was private and trespassers would be prosecuted. That was utter rubbish but the landowners got away with it because of people like you who believed it and thus did not report the threat, or coercion, to the police.

    In some instances I personally know of the landowner would even confront people while carrying a closed shotgun. That too is a further crime in Scotland.

    The message for such as you, who are intent upon doing the Yoons work for them, is that it is those who accept the abuses of the law of Scotland that prevent such laws from being enforced.

    A law is only good if the people, and especially a sovereign people, accept it and an abuse of a law is exactly the same. Laws can only be enforced if they are accepted by the majority.

    The drink driving laws used to be generally ignored but now the will of the majority not only has seen the original law enforced but has seen the drink drive limit much reduced.

    There you have it, Rock. You are doing the Unions work for them. The people of Scotland are legally sovereign and that is the main basis of the independent Scottish legal system but as long as we have people like you we cannot get a majority of the sovereign people of Scotland to insist that Westminster respects their legal sovereignty.

    Like the laws – legal sovereignty can only be enforced if the people demand that it be enforced,

    There should be a public refusal to obey any Westminster attempt to over rule our legal sovereignty. For example we should not accept any ruling by the so called Supreme Court.

    If it then came before the courts of Scotland they would have no option but to uphold Scots law over Westminster Law. They cannot do so, though, unless there is public demand.

    Scots law, like most others, respects precedence, that is previously made court rulings, and there are indeed several precedents that uphold the tenet that Scottish Law is independent in perpetuity as stated in the Treaty of Union.

    However, to invoke precedence there has to be a legal challenge made and followed through to the Highest Courts in the land. The law is only as strong as the people demand it be.

  130. call me dave says:

    Independent Scotland could remain in EU after Brexit, leading expert says

    Professor John Curtice, of Strathclyde University, said Scotland could swap places with Britain in the EU if there was a vote for independence in a second referendum.

    He said it was “difficult to deny” that the EU would have the “option” of handing Scotland the UK’s seat in the EU after Brexit under those circumstances.

  131. Meg merrilees says:

    Tam Jardine

    In 1701 England had to choose Sophie of Hanover to succeed to the throne as William and Mary had no surviving children , nor Anne – Mary’s sister.
    Sophie was James VI th’s grand-daughter, Elizabeth Stuart’s daughter and a protestant. However she died in about 1714 and her son became George I starting the House of Hanover dynasty, subsequent Monarch’s have come from that branch, so there is a link back to the Stuarts.

    Don’t profess to know very much about it but I think there is some woman living in the borders ( Traquair House? Floors Castle? ) or somewhere like that who would have a strong claim to a Scottish throne.

    Act of Settlement did not allow Catholics to take the throne etc. and that was accepted in Scotland in 1707.

  132. call me dave says:

    Revealed: how Brexit will ‘devastate’ Scotland’s world-class universities

    Dugdale misses Labour’s NHS campaign day after flying to America again

  133. Meg merrilees says:

    Call me Dave 12.52pm

    Robert Peffers has been proposing this solution for weeks re Scotland being the successor state when England quits the EU. Glad to see that it is gradually siphoning out into the real world and is being described as ‘an elegant solution’.
    That might convince some more undecideds to vote YES.

    Wonder if we would take Gibraltar and NI with us?

    Don’t you just love the UK government comment :

    a UK Government spokesperson said: “The British people voted to leave the EU, and the UK Government will negotiate the best deal for all parts of the country.”

  134. Tam Jardine says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    Aye mate- slow night so aside from trying to play Heroes and Villains by the Beach Boys (and being extremely unable to) I have been trying to work out all this Scottish Crown stuff.

    There is an interesting wee piece on wikipedia I was reading giving the entire line from James VII up to the present day and beyond- Jacobite Succession. It just struck me how random it all is- we have a German guy and if he croaks his brother, and if he croaks some normal looking lassie- Sophie of Liechtenstein. Then if she croaks there’s a young Liechtensteinian: Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein, Count Rietberg (Joseph Wenzel Maximilian Maria von und zu Liechtenstein) who’s up next.

    I recall going to the Gathering and visiting a stall wi the Loyal Men who were some kind of extremist Jacobite organisation wanting to return a Stuart to the throne of Scotland immediately. The guy had a claymore and was about 7′ tall.

    The whole thing was very serious and very funny at the same time. He was talking about some Polish guy who he thought was the Stuart heir. I told him that my wife (standing next to me) was a direct descendent of Kenneth MacAlpin. Her grandfather, a genealogist had traced his line back to Gruoch, wife of King Macbeth and mother of King Lulach.

    The big guy with the claymore seemed OK with my wife’s claim. I then met my clan chief- a nice young man from the Lake District- Sir William Jardine and my thinking was: I could defeat this dude and be the Chief.

    Centuries and centuries of our country’s history summed up by a wee walk around a few tents at the foot of Salisbury Crags. The original palace of Holyrood a stone’s throw away was looted and burnt by Henry VIII’s men during the “Rough Wooing” (aka invasion and genocide) back in the day. I think ol Henry, rotting in hell if he is anywhere at all would surely approve of the relations between England and Scotland in the 4.5 centuries that followed but might be a wee bit concerned the noo

  135. Liz g says:

    Tam Jardine re the Monarchy
    The thing about the succession to the Throne by William & Mary
    Is that Mary is a direct decent of the deposed James.
    Granddaughter (I think)
    Despite what we are told the English crown more often than not never actually passed to a direct descendant any way.
    Mary Queen of Scot’s had a much of a claim to the English Crown as Elizabeth,thats why she was such a threat.
    Mary also was a child Queen so it was her mother Mary of Guise that ran the show in Scotland and bloody good job she did to.
    It was her that Stirling Castle was built for.
    Then after Mary Queen of Scot’s was executed James was also a child so he had a regent run Scotland as well.
    So even in Scotland this Monarchy nonsense was also not as straight forward as we are led to believe.
    How they all fit in would make your head spin.
    Not forgetting the current queen wasn’t born to be queen either.
    If we think getting rid of the political Union is complicated just wait till getting rid of the Union of the Crown’s becomes an issue.
    All those titles and all that land ,who owns what and how do they have ownership.
    It’s going to be some puzzle right enough.

  136. Footsoldier says:

    Pete Wishart bleating about the SNP only getting 1 award in the Herald politician of the year awards is pretty sad given how well the SNP have done previously.

    Keith Brown’s letter in The Herald today about the Heathrow runway almost sounds like “Better Together”. I am speechless!

  137. Dr Jim says:

    @ call me dave

    The separatist United Kingdom of England should go their way in peace and stop posturing for the benefit of their UKIP voters and let Scotland the Internationalist country get on with the job of global partnership with the rest of the world

    I like putting it that way, you know, elegantly, good old Prof Poultice though

    Hee Hee

  138. Meg merrilees says:

    Scotland remaining IN EU after England leaves..

    How does that square with Mayfly’s plan for the Great Repeal Bill?
    I think Nick Clegg is questioning her Royal Prerog on that anyway as he thinks it should have to be passed through Parliament.

    I guess the lawyers would have to insert a clause exempting Scotland from any Repeal…

    Nicola to announce in the coming weeks… things are moving

  139. Tam Jardine says:

    Meg merrilees

    Aye- but the act of settlement was irrelevant because it took place after the constitutional plane had hit the mountain. It was in place in England in 1701 presumably because James VII’s death would make it a pretty live issue- with him having a son and heir and all.

    Anyway- I like your post at 1.05pm. Can I suggest we don’t bother with Gib and take the Cayman Islands and the British Indian Ocean Territory. We have Faslane- we might as well have Diego Garcia as well. Thats got to be worth a few bob

  140. Meg merrilees says:

    Isn’t the internet Amazing!

    I love this website an all the different brains, learning and knowledge it accesses.
    It’s like we’re all sitting in one big pub chatting away and yet we are miles apart, united by one dream!

    Imagine if Robert the Bruce or Bonnie Prince Charlie had had the internet to blether away on – how would history have panned out?

    What we have here is a fantastic ability to inspire each other and keep the light of Independence burning, night and day. Thanks to the REV’s brilliant, relentless detective work and research it’s a veritable resource.

    Away to my bed now – keep up the good work, one and all.

  141. yesindyref2 says:

    I think Curtice is a Green, could be wrong, was a devo-maxer and is a europhile. In that respect he’s like a barometer for what we hope to see the next few weeks.

    With Dugdale deserting Labour’s NHS campaign to fight for Clinton in the USA, it gives Labour a chance to change leadership with Anas Sarwar, but also it is going to have to face a watershed moment once Article 50 has been invoked. Would Sarwar take Labour in Scotland in a different direction? We shouldn’t underestimate him.

  142. yesindyref2 says:

    @Tan / Meg / Liz g
    I can’t help but feel that in the next few months, Robert Peffer’s repetition of the constitutional history of the UK and all the discussions it’s been promoting, is going to play a crucial part in the future of our EU membership which, in turn, is going to be crucial to Indy Ref 2.

    Education and knowledge, knowledge is the key.

  143. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Tam Jardine –

    I’m too done to write anything but…



    If you ever stake a claim to the Scottish crown, ahm with ye brother…hunner%

  144. Cherry says:

    I’ve been following your history debate since last night. Have you read this:

    It may answer some questions over the royal prerogative. Now carry on coz we have an extra hour to gab 😉

  145. yesindyref2 says:

    Styles is “right”, and the arguments below the line espoused the views basically of Crawford & Boyle. However, those arguments used C&B’s conclusion of probability, but even they qualify that by saying it’s one of other options.

    And also the preamble to their (C&B) Annex A states that they were given the remit of investigating the rUK’s claim to be the Continuing UK, and from there the right of the cUK to retain memberships of the EU, NATO, and all the treaties.

    C&B therefore argue the possibilities first, settle on the one that gives the rUK the right to be the cUK and continue from there. They do this, by the way, quite honestly and openly, just as any advocate for one side of a legal dispute would do.

    Styles advocates and argues the other side, and it would ultimately be up to some Court to make a judgement. It is, however, unlikely ever to come to court, as a mutually agreed position would occur. But it IS important, vital, that the likes of Styles continues to make the argument publicly.

  146. yesindyref2 says:

    Aberdeen Uni, by the way, was a source of some very interesting articles during Indy Ref 1. I suspect that it’s less tied to the conventional neccessities of pumping students out into a largely Unionist employment world, and perhaps also because of its connections with Oil & Gas which in the UK knows no constitutional boundaries, it is freer to explore the less conventional and non-Unionist view – and perhaps is encouraged to do so by “forces” within O&G as well who care little for politics, but more for commercial realities. It’s a shame more Unis in Scotland aren’t more free to roam, though some of academia does its best.

  147. yesindyref2 says:

    Sorry. me again, I wish I could follow a thought through to the end, before posting.

    Talking about Unis being more open, with Brexit call me dave’s link to the Herald article is most pertinent, even impertinent!

    “Revealed: how Brexit will ‘devastate’ Scotland’s world-class universities

  148. Cherry says:

    message in OT

  149. Liz g says:

    Broad g calling Danny Peffers
    Broad g calling Danny Peffers

    I think the time has come to consider the claims of 00Rock.

    He seems pretty confident in his claim that the Scottish People only have pretendy Soverenty.
    OH God Robert whit if he’s right….

    If we don’t have it… where the fuck is it??

    Do ye think he’s got it?

    If he has what do you imagine he will do with it.
    Will he sell it to Westminster?
    Will he try and use it himself?
    Does he know how powerful it is?
    Does he know not to swallow it?

    I mean we need to have a plan.
    We can’t call it plan A that’s been taken as is I think plan B.
    Plan Zero belongs to Westminster.
    So I’m thinking plan Infinity would be good.
    Thats clearly no on any planet at all.(Rock could potentially identify with this as my sources tell me he is asked that all the time)
    Now we need to get answers here,and I mean only a full running commentary will do.
    Let’s send Cameron B Brodie to find out if..A haud him an you daud him… a war crime or a breach of his human rights.
    Then we could try a public appeal to ask him to let Scotland take back control of the Soverenty….Buses or bill boards what say you?

    I think we can be pretty confident that if he fled to Europe,while they would almost certainly take a wee bit of it they would send the bulk of it back.

    The main concern is that he thinks it should be taken to Westminster and kept there.
    In that instance can we agree to fully arm the Court of Session and deploy them?
    Ofcourse there is always the deterrent only question is how loud do you think a Ninety year old woman can purr at him?

    I await your instructions.

    While this message won’t self destruct after you have read it,when I sober up I’ll probably wish it would.

  150. Cherry says:

    liz 😉 you have me laughing…what you drinking can i have one?
    left a message on OT for indy have look see what you make of it i’m baffled

  151. Liz g says:

    Cherry @ 2.05
    Water of life .. ofcourse
    Heading over to OT to have a look.

  152. yesindyref2 says:

    You can get the data if you click on sheet 4 at the bottom, or even better, “data for charts”, which gives for instance

    “Department – Total capital costs (£m) – Total repayments, £m
    Scottish Government – 5,692.80 – 30,755.49”

    So for those PFI projects with a cost of £5.7 billion, we’re paying back a total of £30.8 billion (2012 figures).

    I’m on Windows XP, and no idea what program opened that document – your setup might be way different.

  153. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah – no idea if “Total repayments” means repayments so far, or the total that will be repaid at the end of the PFI agreement. Very likely the first unfortunately.

  154. Cherry says:

    indy and Liz I didn’t look for this it’s a spreadsheet I’ve never requested or searched for…how the hell did it appear on my laptop. I’m Windows7 I use Chrome but only recently this has me stumped,is it a gov spreadsheet?

  155. yesindyref2 says:

    Just in case you’re unable to get the Repayments total data tab – you have to wait a few seconds for them to open up – here’s the repayment data (sorry all about the length).

    Project Name Department TOTAL REPAYMENTS, £m
    Aberdeen Scottish Government 592.2
    Aberdeenshire Schools PPP1 Scottish Government 98.7
    Aberdeenshire Schools PPP2 Scottish Government 200.4
    Acute Hospital, Larbert Scottish Government 1851.2
    Addiewell Prison Scottish Government 1015
    Angus A92 Scottish Government 215
    Angus Schools Scottish Government 202.8
    Argyll & Bute Waste Management Scottish Government 121.9
    AVSE (Almond Valley Seafield & Esk) Scottish Government 720.1
    Baldovie Scottish Government 129.1
    Balfron Schools Scottish Government 83.1
    Carseview Centre Scottish Government 62.3
    Clackmannanshire Community Health Services Scottish Government 93
    Clackmannanshire Schools Scottish Government 293.5
    Crosshouse Maternity Scottish Government 79.1
    Daldowie Scottish Government 485.1
    Dalmuir Scottish Government 221.7
    Dumfries & Galloway Schools Scottish Government 481.3
    Dumfries & Galloway Waste Scottish Government 315.3
    Dundee Schools Scottish Government 399.8
    East Ayrshire Community Hospital Scottish Government 39.4
    East Ayrshire Schools Scottish Government 328.5
    East Dunbartonshire Schools Scottish Government 499
    East Lothian Schools Scottish Government 277.7
    East Renfrewshire Schools PPP1 Scottish Government 73.9
    East Renfrewshire Schools PPP2 Scottish Government 231.9
    Easter Ross PC Centre Scottish Government 38.6
    Edinburgh Schools PPP1 Scottish Government 532.8
    Edinburgh Schools PPP2 Scottish Government 732.2
    Ellen’s Glen House Scottish Government 34.1
    Falkirk Schools PPP1 Scottish Government 320.1
    Ferryfield House Scottish Government 32.4
    Fife Schools PPP1 Scottish Government 193.4
    Fife Schools PPP2 Scottish Government 218.6
    Findlay House Scottish Government 26.6
    Forfar & Kirriemuir CRC Scottish Government 46.7
    Gartnavel Royal Hospital Scottish Government 87.6
    General Hospitals & Maternity Services, Kirkcaldy Scottish Government 900.9
    Glasgow Schools Scottish Government 1525.5
    Hairmyres Hospital Scottish Government 685.8
    Highland Scottish Government 215.8
    Highland Schools PPP2 Scottish Government 744.2
    Highland Schools PPP1 Scottish Government 98.5
    HIS (SGH) Scottish Government 6.8
    HIS (Yorkhill) Scottish Government 5.3
    Inverclyde Schools Scottish Government 321.1
    James Watt College, Kilwinning Scottish Government 49.3
    Kilmarnock Prison Scottish Government 359
    Larkfield Scottish Government 47
    Levenmouth Scottish Government 714.8
    M6 DBFO Scottish Government 890.4
    M77(* including Glasgow Southern Orbital) Scottish Government 457.7
    M80 Stepps to Haggs Scottish Government 1042
    Mearnskirk Scottish Government 3.5
    Mid Argyll Community Hospital Scottish Government 87.1
    Midlothian Community Hospital Scottish Government 71
    Midlothian Schools PPP1 Scottish Government 152.5
    Midlothian Schools PPP2 Scottish Government 173.2
    Moray Scottish Government 357.6
    MSI (Meadowhead, Stevenston, Inverclyde) Scottish Government 452.1
    New Craigs Hospital Scottish Government 107.7
    North Ayrshire Schools Scottish Government 418.7
    North Lanarkshire Schools Scottish Government 729.3
    Perth & Kinross Office Scottish Government 71
    Perth & Kinross Schools Scottish Government 630.7
    Police Force Training Centre Scottish Government 111.9
    Provision of Maternity & Day Care services Scottish Government 71.8
    Renfrewshire Schools Scottish Government 556.2
    Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh Scottish Government 1448.8
    Scottish Borders Schools Scottish Government 323.4
    SCRA – Integrated Information System Scottish Government 25.3
    SGH – Geriatric medicine Scottish Government 44.6
    South Ayrshire Schools Scottish Government 372.3
    South Lanarkshire Schools Scottish Government 1253
    St Andrews Hospital & Health Centre Scottish Government 115.5
    Stirling Schools Scottish Government 424.5
    Stobhill & Victoria ACADs Scottish Government 823.9
    Stobhill Local Forensic Unit Scottish Government 111.2
    Stonehouse Hospital Scottish Government 19.9
    Tay Scottish Government 628
    Tippethill (Bathgate) Scottish Government 23.9
    West Dunbartonshire Schools Scottish Government 413
    West Lothian Schools PPP1 Scottish Government 171.2
    West Lothian Schools PPP2 (PPP3) Scottish Government 330.2
    Wishaw General Scottish Government 794.5

    Again, it would need explanatory notes to see exactly what this represents. Labour did some good things in office contrary to popular opinion. PFI committing future generations to pay huge multiples of repayments over costs was not one of them. I had a quick look a few weeks or months back, and the Scottish Government PPP (?) scheme is far far better as it limits profit-making, no idea if that makes it good though.

  156. Cherry says:

    I have it open on the total page, when you highlight the boxes it brings up various departments….it appears to have someone sharing, platypus on the right at top beside share…do you have it too?

  157. Liz g says:

    Cherry @ 2.23
    I am on a wee tablet thing and while the document downloaded I can only see stats for England.
    Scotland seems to be scrambled.
    Can pick out the name of a prison I Have never heard of though!
    Can go all the way through the English List’s.
    You should try and save this if you can Cherry it’s definitely strange.

  158. Cherry says:

    still it begs the question where did it come from?? I was on my google home page then there it was?? should we keep or delete? is it useful in any way or could i end up before the beak for hacking! that’s a joke for any GCHQ or 77th 😉

  159. artyhetty says:

    Regards Scotgov replacement of Labours disastrous, criminally expensive ppi.

    Criminals were at the helm, it is costing Scotland £billions. FFS.

  160. Cherry says:

    Liz it’s full of pfi stuff from everywhere. Indyref has put a list above. This is just so weird!! if you guys don’t hear from me …come get me out the nick lol!

    Think I’ll stick it in a file on my external harddrive. just in case… Calling Danny Boy, Danny Boy the pii…

  161. yesindyref2 says:

    It probably depends on what you were searching for before. I vaguely remember seeing a link in the past for google docs when searching for something, but didn’t explore it. Can’t remember any more though.

    Google do do a lot of weird stuff, and does have contracts with UK Gov, e.g.

    Perhaps they have contracts for google docs as well, whatever that is.

    It is possible that they haven’t secured the online directory of some stuff against – search engines like google!

  162. yesindyref2 says:

    There’s more tabs with more stuff if you click the arrows at the bottom left or right. Fascinating stuff!

  163. Liz g says:

    Cherry @ 2.43
    Don’t you worry Hun we’ll come get you
    But seriously send it if you can to another device
    Just as a belt and braces thing.

  164. Cactus says:

    Trick or treat.. sweet.

    It’s good that the two people crowdfunded BBC Misreporting Scotland campaigns are happening in the order that they are.

    The first campaign is the stickies onda street.
    The second is ra billboards.

    First we prime, then we coat.

  165. Cherry says:

    I can save it tomorrow. It’s is quite a strange document. The only place I’ve been is on wings and grouse beaters. Didn’t search anything, I don’t use google docs, there new on my home page. Well i have it it could be nothing or it could be something. So Indy lock your door and pull up the drawbridge! Liz just keep drinking the water of life, and Cactus give Scotland one of your big I loves you!
    I/we could have fun with this data…Liz you could maybe open it with your tablets word program I have a Fire tablet and it uses Polaris…or zoom out as it is a big doc.

  166. yesindyref2 says:

    Can’t remember whether cmd posted this, anyway a day old:

    “UK now has second-worst risk rating in G7 after Italy”

    I always presume that GCHQ knows what I’m having for my tea before I do. I wonder if HMS Blyth wasn’t looking for mines when it was parked about 300 yards away, but something far more sinister. Ah well, that’s my inside leg measurement gone again, I’ll just have to change it. No, you can’t have any of my midget gems, get your own, I’m sure there’s a 24 hour Morisons somewhere in Cheltenham..

  167. Cactus says:

    Aye for sure miss cherry 🙂

    I Loves Scotland X

    btw all, The Doors are on 121, if u got it on a guest tv.

  168. bjsalba says:


    Usually D&B are the last to notice.

  169. davidb says:

    Oh no. Kez is away to help the Clinton campaign. That must considerably increase the chances of a Trump victory.

  170. Breeks says:

    It’s never mentioned now, so perhaps it’s been addressed, but when I was at school, to get to University in England to do say geography required the type of grades that would let you study medicine in Scotland, because of the way the English Universities looked down their noses at Scottish Highers compared to A levels.

    Options for a Scot to study in England were limited, but the reverse was never the case until tuition fees came along, and even these don’t disadvantage English students with regards to other English students studying in England.

    I could never understand why there wasn’t an outcry about it, although quietly I was quite content that Scottish students were swelling Scottish universities.

    IF Brexit makes it more difficult for foreign students to come here, and they are treated like villains for wanting to stay, then Brexit will indeed be a disaster for Scottish Universities, and the impact on research doesn’t bear thinking about.

  171. ScotsRenewables says:

    Watching Marr . . . apparently Prof. Curtice has said IndyScotland could just slide into the UK’s role in the EU in an article in the Herald.

    Ian Rankin wittering Catalonia pish. Did’t realise he was a Yoon apologist.

  172. Legerwood says:

    Tam Jardine @ 11.40 pm

    Queen Anne, who succeeded to the throne in 1702 when William died was the daughter of James VII and II. She was a Protestant. She in turn was succeeded by George I who was a great grandson of James VI and I.

    If I have remembered correctly both the Claim of Rights and the Bill of Rights included clauses saying that the sovereign must be a Protestant.

  173. Tam Jardine says:


    Just had a quick look. Interesting MOD project- Allenby/Connaught. I never knew the MOD accommodation had been farmed out on a PFI. £11.5 billion for replacing accommodation and looking after 18700 troops in Aldershot and Salisbury Plain (20% of the UK Army).

    The UK Gov website says £8 billion for the whole project lifespan of 35 years.. whats running £3.5 billion over budget between friends.

    The overall total PFI repayments on the table for MOD is £49.755 billion- (in context the Dept Education is £29.464bn and Scottish Gov repayments are £30.755bn).

    I had no idea the extent of the privatisation of MOD provision.

    Overall total repayments: £301 bn for UK- I presume that is a projected figure for all of these PFI projects- won’t include anything procured since.

    Too much to absorb. Would love to know our exposure through GERS on PFI… for example of the X we pay per year on GERS for defence how much relates to these hyper inflated projects? Is this one of the main reasons the UK is fucked- PFI exposure that has, is and will transfer incredible sums from public sector into private hands.

    Good find- needs further analysis. Not sure if we can find an up to date version to compare? **waves to MI5**

  174. louis.b.argyll says:

    Looking ahead..

    If the first elected independent Scottish Government was to cancel the RIDICULOUS PFIs, that would in effect cancel the deficit, by opening up NEW long term borrowing ON BETTER TERMS. The savings returned to the public sector, who in turn need to borrow less.

    It’s simple to manage our own country, we just always do what’s right by us.

    Things (inequality) couldn’t get much worse than they are right now.

  175. Tam Jardine says:

    Legerwood & liz

    Just looking through my post from last night- you are right to point out Anne’s claim- when I said zero claim I should have said a lesser claim. I still cannot get my head around the parliament in Edinburgh making changes through the Claim of Right to the order of succession- by what authority was that possible?

    If that were the case parliament could simply say Joe Bloggs at number 32 is next in line to the throne, no?

    I think we need to bring God into this.

  176. Breeks says:

    On eggshells saying it Tam 9:54, but Scottish sovereignty allows the Scots to depose a monarch, but I think there is still a hereditary component to determine next in line. There are still heirs to the throne, but we can depose those who don’t measure up.

  177. Liz g says:

    Tam Jardine @ 9.54
    Actually in Scotland I think we can proclaim Joe Bloggs as king.
    The point of the Declaration of Arbroth was the we could get rid of the Monarch if they weren’t working out for Scotland.
    Seems God devolved that power to us.
    But not to England… mibbi he thought they were too poor,too wee and too stupit!

  178. Orri says:

    The whole succession bit ignores that other than being historical bullshit Macbeth relies on a misrepresentation of how succession in Scotland was decided. Pretty much the way we got into the shit with asking an English king to arbitrate neutraly and had John Baliol installed as his puppet. In Scotland we selected from suitable candidates so simply being first in line wasn’t how it was done.

    For all the fuss about no catholic rule remember that the Declaration of Arbroath may have been an appeal to the Pope with the introduction of Protestantism the concept of him as a foreign prince was more evident. In principle the DoA might also extend to more than just the King of England and to being beholden to any other sovereign. However a more enlightened version would read it as only a bar on what actions our monarch may take rather on whether they can be installed. The obvious problem will occur should a monarch ever refuse assent on other than constitutional grounds.

  179. yesindyref2 says:

    A levels from England and Wales are recognised to be higher than highers, but about the same as advance highers. Uni entrance here is based largely on highers, so students with enough and suitable A levels and advance highers can go straight into second year for some courses.

    In a way our entry system favours Scots in terms of being able to apply in the first place, as applicants from England and Wales have to be higher qualified to apply as A levels are higher, but O levels if they still exist, are lower.

  180. Meg merrilees says:

    Cherry @1.06am

    Thankyou for the link to the document re Royal Prerog and the Acts of Union.

    I knew that the use of RP is a reserved matter but had thought that perhaps it didn’t apply in Scotland – however couldn’t quite understand how that could be. I didn’t realise that it was in force in Scotland when the Acts/Treaty of Union etc. were drawn up – that hugely changes the rules of the game!

    As we have been saying in earlier posts Queen Elizabeth II of England will have to discuss the situation with Queen Elizabeth, I, Queen of Scots and Good Queen Bess may have to do as bid by the Peoples/Parliament and First Minister of Scotland!

    A previous poster on this site wrote that he vaguely remembered a Seer saying that “the Union would end when a woman ruled both countries” maybe we’re not discussing Nicola and Theresa here; Perhaps who was foretold is Elizabeth who currently rules and ultimately may have to separate BOTH countries.

    You have to at least entertain the idea of the prophesy as tomorrow is Hallowe’en and spooky time?

  181. Legerwood says:

    Liz g says:
    30 October, 2016 at 10:47 am
    Tam Jardine @ 9.54
    “”Actually in Scotland I think we can proclaim Joe Bloggs as king.
    The point of the Declaration of Arbroth was the we could get rid of the Monarch if they weren’t working out for Scotland.
    Seems God devolved that power to us.
    But not to England… mibbi he thought they were too poor,too wee and too stupit!””

    James the VII was removed as King of Scotland because he was considered to be failing in his job as king. While in theory Joe Blogger could, in the most improbable circumstances, be chosen to replace a king removed in such a way in practice the rules of succession would be followed. This from Wikipedia explains it more succinctly

    “” Therefore, a Convention of the Scottish Estates met to consider letters received on 16 March 1689 from the two contenders for the Crown. On 4 April they voted to remove James VII from office, drawing on George Buchanan’s argument on the contractual nature of monarchy.[1]

    Later that month, the Convention adopted the Claim of Right and the Article of Grievances, enumerating what they saw as the contemporary requirements of Scottish constitutional law. It also declared that, because of his actions in violation of these laws, James had forfeited the Scottish throne.[2] The effect of the Claim of Right was to “bolster the position of parliament within the Scottish constitution at the expense of the royal prerogative”.[3]

    The Convention proceeded to offer the crown on the basis of these documents to William and Mary, who accepted it on 11 May 1689, and were proclaimed King and Queen of the Scots as William II and Mary II, though with subsequent controversy over whether the Claim of Right articles against Episcopacy were fully accepted by the new monarchy.[1]””

  182. Rock says:

    Robert Peffers,

    “These are NOT ancient laws they are the current law system used in Scotland every day of the week.

    What’s more it is being legally enforced every hour of every day of the week. The thing that prevents Scotland enforcing it is because of the unionists that want it the way it is.”

    The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

    The Scottish justice system that allowed the disgraced liar Carmichael to continue as a legally elected MP.

    The Scottish justice system that allowed Coulson to lie under oath.

    The Scottish justice system that allowed that jailed the innocent Megrahi.

    Don’t blame the unionists. Scots have near zero “sovereignty” and that is the bitter truth.

    You bang on about “sovereignty” but never answer the question how “sovereign” Scots can actually enforce it.

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