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All That Ever Mattered

Posted on March 12, 2023 by

In fairness, you can’t really accuse them of hiding it any more.

The faint hearts and pension-seekers of the SNP think that their time has come – the moment when the party’s pursuit of independence can be quietly downgraded to a vague long-term aspiration that will ensure their seats on the gravy train for decades.

Starting at noon tomorrow is your very last chance to stop them.

Readers of this site already know who we think is the best – the only – option to keep the dream of independence alive. Ash Regan lacks presentational polish but has a credible and practical plan while the others have nothing, and also knows that the SNP is a broken, hollowed-out mess urgently in need of root-and-branch reform.

(It’s just four days since Wings suggested to you that the real membership was 75,000 plus or minus 5K, so we’re claiming a point there. Although the really revealing number in that story is that while the SNP have given Mi-Voice 78,000 names, they only expect the oddly specific number of 54,000 to vote, which in conjunction with other evidence suggests that 24,000 may be “ghost” members whose departure hasn’t been properly recorded. We can only hope Peter Murrell doesn’t get hold of their votes.)

Humza Yousaf, meanwhile, is offering more of the same failure that has characterised the last eight wasted years, both in terms of domestic governance and indy strategy. And Kate Forbes is a well-meaning but marshmallow candidate who caves in when put under even mild pressure. She would disintegrate in the heat of a full-on referendum or plebiscite election.

(Here she is at the hustings event in Edinburgh on Friday, saying that she WILL after all pursue a court challenge over the Gender Recognition Reform bill, which she hid from voting on even though she opposes it.)

Because Forbes is being pushed hard by most of the Unionist media as the favourite and Yousaf is the anointed choice of the outgoing SNP hierarchy, while Regan has been studiously ignored in the press for the past fortnight, many seem to be reluctantly favouring Forbes as the best way to at least stop Humza Yousaf.

But due to the nature of the electoral system being used in the contest, that is a false narrative. The election will be run using a variant of the Single Transferable Vote system used in local elections, and that has very specific connotations in a three-way race.

Voters can rank as many of the candidates as they wish by writing the numbers 1-2-3 on their ballot paper. You can vote for one person only, or you can rank your favourite two, or you can rank all three (the last two options there amounting to the same thing).

If anyone gets 50%+1 of first preferences in the first round of counting, they win and that’s it. If nobody does, the lowest-voted candidate drops out and any second preferences in their votes are allocated to the other two, at which point – because there are only three candidates – one of them WILL have over 50%.

So here’s what you should do if you’re still an SNP member and have a vote.


You’ve clearly come to the wrong website by mistake.


You should vote for Kate Forbes, duh.


Now here’s the imporant thing. Because if you think it’d be best for Ash Regan to win but you think she’s too much of an outsider to have a chance and you want to make sure Humza Yousaf doesn’t get in, you can still safely vote for Ash Regan first.

If you vote Regan 1 Forbes 2, you maximise her chances of winning without hurting Kate Forbes’ chances of beating Yousaf in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. Because if Regan comes last in the first round, every single one of those votes will then go to Forbes.

It seems to be widely agreed that most Regan voters will have Forbes as their second preference, and most Forbes voters will rank Regan second. That could be wrong, but it makes rational sense. So Yousaf pretty much has to win it in the first round (or come VERY close) or he’s probably boned.

If he doesn’t, then every vote that ranks Regan and Forbes 1 and 2 in either order automatically becomes a vote for whichever one is best placed to beat Yousaf, so you might as well vote for the order you actually want.

You CANNOT split the anti-Yousaf vote in a three-way STV election if you vote for both of his opponents – it simply isn’t structurally possible. Any vote that ranks the others 1 and 2 is a de facto vote against him.

While there are fewer SNP members reading Wings than there used to be, as far as we can tell there are still a good few thousand of you. And folks, if you care even a tiny bit about actually achieving independence, you’ve never needed to listen to us as much as you do right now.

Everything that’s ever happened since the SNP first came to power – indeed, since it first came into existence 89 years ago – now hinges on the next two weeks. If you vote either Kate Forbes or Humza Yousaf as your first preference, you are voting to give up on independence for the visible future.

Don’t let it end like this.

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0 to “All That Ever Mattered”

  1. Bill Cowan

    Simple logic Stu.

    Let’s just hope enough of the sane SNP members read this and take it on board.

    Otherwise, all is lost.

  2. Eddie Munster

    Cowardly snake oil salesmen forever promising jam tomorrow.

  3. twathater

    What a shower of bastards , they have sat on their fat comfy arses for 9 years spouting about convincing people over to indy and produced fuck all to help activists or ordinary indy supporters to do so

    ALL you ever get from these parasitic arsewipes is

    “That WE have to convince others and encourage people to see the benefits of indy”

    Meanwhile oxygen wastes like wet pishfart BRAGGING about being in WM for 22 years NOT REALISING that it is showing him and his vile party up for the incompetent troughers that they are, IF they were COMPETENT they wouldn’t be in WM at all NOW

    And now we have this other betrayer baldy macpherson trotting out the same pish of ” WE have to take more people along with us WE have to convince more and more”

    WE that is the royal WE whilst baldy and the rest of the DEPLORABLES rake in their huge salaries and pensions, claim for ALL their heating expenses, claim for all their travel expenses, languish in subsidised WM restaurants and bars whilst our pensioners and families have to make a choice on heating OR eating

    Sturgeon famously said ” WE have time on our side ” YES her and her scum deplorables want time on their side to MILK every penny from the SCOTLAND GRAVY BUS

    This snp are WORSE than LIEBOUR OR TORIES at least with Labour and Tories you know what to expect

  4. Colin+Dawson

    54,000 members times £12 per year equals £648,000. That’s remarkably close to the size of the missing indy fighting fund.

  5. Colin Dawson

    54,000 members times £12 per year equals £648,000. That’s remarkably close to the size of the missing indy fighting fund.

  6. Graham

    Excellently written.

  7. Smitty

    When I gave the membership figue of 81k on here which ended up in the press, this was mocked and denied. This was a live figure I was given at the time and I have checked and the 78k figure is true now.

    HQ, Sturgeon, the gravy train mob and the cabinet are all in total panic mode.They miscalculated the mood of the membership. They thought that putting up Humza then about being progressive, and bombarding social media with memes would cut it. As you can see with the GRR the leadership has been completly out of step with the membership and voters. Including and the members of WhatsApp groups, MSPs and their staff, the main campaign group, HQ and Gov comms staff, there is an estimated 200 people working on Humza’s campaign. They are currently pumping out 12-15 press releases a day.Journalists are now seeing it for what is is and most are now getting deleted from their inboxes.

    He had anticipated Forbes going forward and the short campaign of shock and awe in conjunction with the Record was designed for only two candidates and she was expected to knock her out early and then get coronated. However they did not anticipate Regan entering and even when they did she was dismissed. The Humza campaign did not feel the need to have a strong independence strategy as Forbes did not have one much different either. However Regan came in with a strategy which was apparently written by her and her husband in one morning which now has a higher approval rating amongst SNP voters than any independence strategy ever put forward. In four hours they achieved what Sturgeon and all her team could not do in nearly nine years. Humza’s team has struggled to counter it and support is now growing quickly for her plan and they are now it a total panic. They can’t attack Regan like they did with Forbes as this will drive 2nd votes away from him to Forbes.

    My sources in HQ and at the parliament both say that based on the current modelling puts Forbes on 38, Humza on 36 and Regan on 26 in the first round. Votes will not transfer from Regan to Humza as Stuart says, but to Forbes taking her a cross the finishing line. They are now realising that the game is up as there is no way that Humza can win this.So late in the game his team is trying everything and they are now trying to counter Regan’s Indy strategy with only on day to go before voting commences. They were warned by a senior minister not to underestimate Forbes and Regan and told that their continuity strategy was high risk but they chose to ignore it.

    Neil Gray and Maree Todd are his two closest allies now and they are in a complete mess as they bet the house on him winning. Parliament staff say that she is not in good mental health, she has a disheveled appearance and there are many concerns about her drinking. She had previously been close friends with the Forbes and Regan but had been promised a cabinet job and she has gone and turned against her old friends launching vicious attacks and briefing against them. She is now regarded in her constituency as being toxic and activists are hoping she stands down at the next election as already there is a plot to replace her if she decides to continue. Gray is also in a similar position with many unhappy about his behaviour.

    The fear and panic is more than palpable now as a Forbes/Regan government will likely clear out all of Sturgeons staff, most of the cabinet a few ministers. Shit is getting real and the game really is up.

  8. Terry

    Best summary of the snp yet. Treated us like fools and exploited us all for their own gain. They have used a noble cause to feather their own nests. They can get stuffed. As Alex Salmond said, “it’s going to be a sair fecht” but fight we will.
    Well done ash for standing up to these shower of spineless users not once, but twice. That’s courageous. And if the members can’t see this well don’t act surprised when you get the doors slammed in your face and your mps lose their seats and Slab gloat at you. It’s your final chance to turn the ship. Cos captain nicola won’t save you. She’s run off without revealing her secret plan. That’s cos there never was one.

  9. Breeks

    The irony is, if Humza had credible leadership potential, the best way he could express it is to do the right thing by the SNP and Scottish Independence and step away from the contest, high centering the Trans Taliban infiltrators, and leaving the membership a straight binary choice between an Independentist and a crowd pleaser, who can probably work together as a team FM and Deputy irrespective of who actually wins.

    That Humza hasn’t a single molecule of leadership potential throughout his entire body will be most crudely exposed by him actually winning and becoming leader.

    I encourage you to think about it Humza.

  10. Astonished

    I have mentioned the catastrophic drop in membership. I also suspected a membership of 50,000.

    I arrived at this figure by hearing how many activists turned up for the nuSNP at leafleting and meetings. Not very many if you’re asking.

    Who, in their right mind, is going to support the transcult ?

    I suggest the 28,000 (imaginary ?) members might all vote for Humza. Thanks to Peter Plotter.

    Sadly, I don’t think Ash will win. But she’s already given them a big fright. So she’s facing years of abuse (sanctioned by Sturgeon) from the transcult.

    If you want independence I suggest a much quicker way is to join Alba or ISP. And at the next Holyrood election vote for these parties at constituency and list.

    Sturgeon really did for the SNP – Didn’t she ?

  11. Robert Louis

    What really irks me about some of these pathetic overpaid MSPs and cabinet ministers who want to wait another ten years, is this, they simply cannot see any urgency for independence. They are not struggling to get by, they are not at the mercy of hideous policies imposed by England. No, they are doing quite alright, actually, thanks very much, so they come out with pish like thon waste of space SNP minister in the papers.

    Aye let’s wait another ten freaking years for independence, because the SNP cabinet minister above, is doing A OK at present. No rush, no urgency whatsoever.

    THAT is exactly what Kate or Humza Useless will give you, dither, dither, dither, delay, delay, delay, excuse, excuse, excuse. Just like Sturgeon has for eight years.

    Only Ash Regan has the fight for independence, only Ash Regan has a plan for independence (see previous article), and only Ash Regan understands the urgency of it all.

    Ash Regan as SNP leader will be a breath of fresh air for both the SNP and Scotland.

  12. SusanAHF

    The SNP have sold out for freebies. Lucky them, I have 4 days to go until my UC payment and am on emergency credit for my gas and have enough money for a carton of milk. Shame I’m not a MP/MSP.

  13. Muscleguy

    And one must ask if we are not ready for Independence yet wtf have the SNP been doing since 2007? Salmond reckoned we were in 2011 and made moves such as uniting Polis Scotland. What has happened to make us fit for Independence since September 18 2014?

    Absolutely nothing. Nothing which wasn’t in process under Salmond like the Queensferry Crossing. So this admission by Macpherson is absolutely damning for a supposedly Independence Party.

    THIS is why the SNP needs to be gotten rid of. They are quite literally a waste of space.

  14. Lindsey Simpson

    Take heart everyone. I nearly cancelled my membership so many times over GRR, independence lies and other Sturgeon scandals but I didn’t because you can influence change most effectively from within. I know of others who feel the same including an Alba supporter! Let’s hope there are enough who did not cancel to win the day. This is a great article which I will circulate.

  15. Beauvais

    Thank you Mr MacPherson for your candour. More SNP members and voters switch their allegiance to Alba.

  16. Geoff Anderson

    I think a major mistake by the Humza/Sturgeon camp was to ignore the bloggers (mainly Wings but others did also contribute). Did they forget the impact of the WBB in 2014?

    If the remaining SNP members vote Humza then the SNP is finished. If either of the other two get in they should team up and build an Indy Party.

    It will not be easy to clear out the Cult. The children will flounce off on day one but all those MPs, MSPs and Councillors who are currently screaming daily…”I support Humza” are telling us who they are.

    If Ash gets in I would probably rejoin. If Kate wins I would wait and watch. If through Peter Murrell Humza wins I will work with ANYBODY who wants to kick out the SNP.

  17. XY and Proud

    Those ‘ghost votes’ are a worry though. Especially as only the % votes are to be announced!!

  18. FionaN

    I wonder if this public revelation of how many members the Sturrells have now lost might get the point across to the remainder that St Nicola was not the wonder-woman they all worshipped after all. Could this persuade them to vote Regan?

    Right now it feels very much like a big axe is about to drop on all our heads. If independence is put back in a box for the next few decades, many will not survive the increasingly brutal price rises especially those of energy – and all with the predicted drift into a prolonged stagflation in the western world.

    Come on Regan, get out there and win – we need hope!

  19. Beauvais

    Ben MacPherson and his fellow fakes profess Scotland to be decades away from being ready for independence. If he’s so determined to turn back the clock on Scotland then why doesn’t he go the whole way and start wearing a starched collar?

    If Humza wins, then Ben & Co will be singing ‘tonight we’re gonna party like it’s 1899’.

  20. Dubh

    Forbes is gonnae win it, isn’t she.

    *tired sigh

  21. Karen

    The “ghost votes” are people who have left in the past year. They are still on the books but don’t get to vote unless they rejoin (too late now).

  22. Beauvais

    The Murrells getting GCHQ to include votes of ex-members.

    So that’ll be ghouls getting spooks to tally ghosts.

  23. Karen

    Doesn’t this sound familiar? How to spot fascism, and not just at the BBC …

  24. Gordon Gekko

    Excellent Stu !

    I would also add a move everybody over to Alba option. Put a fork in the SNP.

    It’s going to happen anyway if Forbes or Yousaf win. Their economic and foreign policies thst either of them will implement. Over time will move more and more to Alba.

    What is just as important as voting for Ash and taking her with us to Alba if she loses. Is this…

    Forbes has business and the North East those with the same religious views, Regan has the independence hardcore, Yousaf has ‘civic Scotland’.

    A Forbes victory. You can practically hear the third sector marching in unison to Anas Sarwar. We lose all of the Labour voters who moved over to the SNP.

    It is imperative Alba are a real strong option for these people. Alba should be out there now with that strategy and let them know Alba is the only option for them. They have to come out and say it.

    The SNP is a lost cause unless Ash wins. Along with this tactical voting. Now is the time for Alba to be out there and it’s members on the streets telling their story how Alba is the place to be.

  25. Michael Bruce

    The idea that only around 70% of 78,000 members will vote, giving a total of 54,000 votes, makes a kind of sense, I suppose.
    But in what is an existential moment for the SNP, why would you be a member and NOT vote? Don’t like any of the candidates? Hold your nose and vote for your least worst choices as 1 and 2, or you risk getting your worst option by default.

  26. Debatable Lands

    So if the SNP thinks Scotland is a long way from being ready for Indy, what is the voter choosing between?

    Two ‘progressive’ parties. One in thrall to sexual and environmental cults. The other apparently a branch office of England.

    With independence off the agenda, which do you pick? Will the vote split on policy lines that ignore independence as a policy?

    Labour/SNP coalition anybody?

  27. Willie

    Listened to Prism the other Sunday and to ex MSP Lloyd Quinnan who explained his constituency branches had lost in the last couple of years around 25% 0f the supposed membership.

    What however he then said was so absolutely reflective of my own constituency was that out of a remaining so called membership of around 1,500 the branch meetings when called only managed to attract about four physical attendees with around half a dozen zoom attendees. That’s four physical folk out of 1,500 or 0.26 of a percent.

    My constituency is similar. Not that I and many others I know are members now, meetings here struggle to get any more than three or four attendees.

    And of course with the recent Conference only attracting, aside of payroll and media a derisory five hundred or so members the reality is that the SNP is now a ghost party.

    And as we know in ghost parties ghosts vote. And that is why in today’s SNP member numbers, members details, are a closely guarded secret known only to Peter Murrell and a few other H people.

    A party in fact of ghost £12.00 a year members and an utter sham.

  28. David Beveridge

    “Campaign should go down a gear…”

    There’s a campaign?

  29. Dave M

    Voting opens today? Not what I wanted on my birthday ? Hopefully the SNP rank-and-file do something to upset the payroll vote by voting in line with their principles.

    As for MacPherson, he’s my MSP and I think he’s bloody useless. It’s nice for him that he’s been given some kind of ministerial responsibility since he was elected, but he clearly doesn’t realise that the lack of preparedness for independence now lies squarely on his shoulders since he’s been part of the government for most of the time since 2016. Perhaps he wants to be voted out so he can return to lawyering.

  30. Alan C

    Karen says:
    12 March, 2023 at 8:12 am

    The “ghost votes” are people who have left in the past year.

    I left six months ago and yet last week was sent the twice yearly begging letter with the raffle tickets. Fortunately the return address was on the envelope so I sent it straight back to them.

  31. Big Jock

    So technically the only way Humza can win is by cooking the books. Because we know that Forbes and Ash will likely share their 1st and second preferences.

    I haven’t met anyone in my wide circle of friends and work colleagues who like Humza. The problem is that it’s only SNP members
    Who decide.

  32. Big Jock

    Dubh 8.04. Yes it does look like Forbes will win it. Don’t entirely despair though. As I can see a place in the cabinet for Ash. I can see Humza being left out of Forbes cabinet entirely.

    I get the impression Forbes despises him!

  33. 100%Yes

    As the SNP aren’t promoting an immediate vote on independence will they commit to not mentioning either Independence or a Referendum in any forthcoming election manifesto, including for the next Westminster and Holyrood elections. I think not this is how they get elected.

    I would just love a journalist to ask “as your not going to hold a Independence vote then I take it as the party for Independence you won’t be mentioning Independence in your manifestos”.

    If the SNP has lost 50,000 members then why has kate and ash been told the SNP had 100,000 members recently, sounds a bit dodgy.

  34. Gordon Gekko

    The fact that Alba has not gone on full electioneering mode while all this is going on is quite disturbing.

    They should be making hay out of this car crash. Highlighting the very clear difference between them and the SNP. Catching those red up in their net.

  35. robertkknight

    Troughers! The lot of ’em. Vote them out…

    No Indy? No SNP!

  36. panda paws

    The big danger is Ash/Kate voters not knowing/realising it’s STV and not transferring. I assume that Yousaf voters will only rank him as that’s the only way he has even a remote chance of winning in actual votes if not “reported” votes!

  37. Luigi

    50,000 unaccounted, untraceable votes is pretty handy if someone in control of proceedings wanted to fix the outcome. Just saying. The Scottish Ghost Party.

  38. Vivian O’Blivion

    Hadn’t really heard of Ben Macpherson ‘till today. The perfect CV for a middle class, carpetbagging parasite. Privately educated, Politics degree from an English university, joined Scottish Labour, jumped ship when it was expedient to career advancement, was fast-tracked through the ranks (made a Minister two years after being first elected).
    Thames House infiltrator?

  39. akenaton

    Looks like we’ve started talking to ourselves again.
    Most here are committed to Independence under ANY circumstances even contemplating an Independent Scotland under a Sturgeon Govt!
    Complete madness, and something we avoided by the skin of our teeth and a bit of help from the “hated” Tories.
    Mr Macpherson seems to mean , not that we at Wings are not ready, but the Scottish electorate are not ready and without a majority in the country nothing can be achieved.
    He is correct, the Independence movement in the country have just had the shit scared out of them by finally coming to the conclusion….which I and others have been saying for years, that Holyrood and the SNP in particular are utterly corrupt.

    People don’t like being taken for fools, even if they are fools and a rebuilding of trust in the country will take years. Perhaps too many years as the voting demographic changes. Especially so if the wet Tories drag us …and the sheep, back into the EU where immigration will skyrocket and Scottish Nationalism will become a pipe dream.

  40. Liz Sneddon

    What Kate Forbes said in that video clip is: “If the only route possible to defending the s35 is going to court, then I’ll go to court.”

    Maybe she mis-spoke and meant to say she would challenge the s35, but what she actually said was that she would go to court to *defend* it. I’d hold her to that!

  41. Ottomanboi

    According to Wiki Macpherson quit the Labour party for reasons quite other than those of wanting independence for his country.
    No surprise then.
    His real interests lie here.

    «Ben Macpherson MSP (SNP, Edinburgh Northern & Leith), added: “I think it’s important that we’ve established this group to bring people of all sexualities and genders together – to tackle issues affecting the LGBTI+ community and advance change where it’s still needed. Scotland is considered one of the most progressive countries in Europe and the world; however, there is still much work to do to tackle the prejudices and inequalities that too many people still face, simply because of their sexuality or gender identity. I look forward to working with everyone in the group to build on the progress made in recent years to create a Scotland that is fully equal and inclusive»

    Seemingly EQUALITY FOR HIS NATION AMONG THE NATIONS is not important.


    May his middling political careerism be soon at an end.

  42. Robert Hughes

    ” go down a gear ” hahahaha ; is there a gear lower than Reverse ?

    The true nature of * Scottish * Devolutionary Party is now revealed for all but the most wilfully blind to see .

    Yousaf & Forbes – one of whom will almost certainly * win * ( I’ll be astonished if not ) will be the undertakers of Independence .

    The stricken body of our Hope will be taken , prostrate and laid before the forthcoming Starmer Government , anointed by the snake oil of Enhanced Powers and finally scattered over a Rainbow Garden of Fading Remembrance .

    Rust to rust . Dust to dust .

    ASH to ashes .

    ( ps . hope to fck I’m completely wrong about the latter . She really is the last hope for anything other that total disaster to emerge from the burnt-out carcass of Nu SNP )

  43. Peter Brunskill

    If Ash Regan doesn’t win thats me cancelling my membership after almost 50 years. Looks like Alba will become the only credible route to Independence.

  44. akenaton

    Mr Campbells poll has a flaw in that we need to coax SNP loyalists and floating voters in the country to vote for Reagan’s Indy Tomorrow agenda. Forbes is the unity candidate in the current circumstances…….”Real Politic”

  45. ScottieDog

    I feel like it’s all or bust. Humza or regan.
    If it’s humza, hopefully that just finishes the party off and that’s that. Forbes seems like a long slow decline, unless she is going to roll back on her campaign pledges of course.

    Reckon the ghost votes might win the day – it wos the ‘blue lady’ (sorry rainbow lady) wot won it.

  46. 100%Yes

    If Nicola Sturgeon was the greatest leader in Scottish history the SNP would have went up by 50,000 not down. I’m glad Sturgeon is gone and history won’t be kind to her. It looks like we’ll have Humza/Forbes as the next leader of the SNP, I reckon they’ll lose another 50,000 by the next holyrood election but why should I care Humza and Kate don’t, if they did they wouldn’t have stood against Ash Regan.

  47. JLT

    For the last 5 years, I’ve quietly watched the Scottish political landscape feeling a sense of growing dread that somehow, there had been a shift; not from Unionist parties, but from the SNP themselves.

    When the idea of the GRR Bill was being promoted, I found myself in bickering matches as to not only the policies now being mooted, but the direction of the independence movement itself. What began to transpire about 3 to 4 years ago was that instead of people with a real desire for independence being made MPs or MSPs, there seemed to be shift in finding people to represent social group minorities. It seemed that to win these minorities to the SNP, policies were adapted to suit that groups cause. In doing so, it allowed what one could deem ‘cuckoos’ into the nest. And for some that I have debated with, their agenda was more important than that of independence. It was at this point about 3 years ago I quit the SNP. Why? Because if it came to another GE or Holyrood election, just exactly what I was meant to say to folk when chapping on doors?
    ‘Yeah, we’re still gunning for independence, but apologies, I have no idea where we stand on the EU, EFTA, currency, defence, borders, trade, England, embassies, Faslane, nukes, etc …but hey, here’s what I can tell you about the GRR Bill!’ BANG …door slammed in my face. That was what I envisioned …and well, stuff that.

    I’m all for equality …but these changes led me to believe that while we were being told that this would bring greater inclusion and equality and thus drive independence, the reality was that we were heading nowhere.

    With chance after chance in bringing the British State to crisis point, the SNP allowed Brexit to pass without a whimper; they allowed Johnson to wreck chaos on the UK without a whimper; they allowed us to be be dragged out of the EU without a whimper; the allowed the cost-of-living crisis to pass without a whimper; they allowed the Supreme Court to tell Scots that we are not sovereign without a whimper; But!!!! They are willing to fight for the GRR Bill! Seriously …WTF?!

    Instead, the only fighting I’ve seen with any passion from the SNP is over the GRR Bill. And when that backfired thanks to Isla Bryson, Nicola Sturgeon then decides to jack it in because ‘she’s tired’. Everything that is happening right now has been badly mis-managed by the SNP. Why did Nicola Sturgeon not prepare a successor instead if this in-house bitter fighting amongst 3 candidates that should not really have thrown their hat into the ring? Why did she not let the SNP hierarchy know that she was thinking of leaving and thus prepare a smooth transition with a reliable candidate? What is the real story of the missing monies? Why has no-one condemned her for leaving at this moment when surely, she should be getting brought to task for the mess that she has overseen. It’s been an absolute disaster these last 5 years and I lay the blame squarely at the FM’s door.

    TBH, I’ve no idea where the SNP or the overall movement is going. Does it actually need the SNP to take a severe kicking at the next elections to bring them back to reality? They have definitely become the Labour of old where we have careerists rather than political warriors and they believe the electorate will always vote for them even if stick a chimpanzee in as FM and promise us a world of opportunities which will be delivered oh so soon (all that carrot dangling).

    I’m not surprised that just under half of the membership have walked. And if I were the SNP hierarchy, I would be deeply worried. That means half of YOUR support don’t believe in you anymore. Why have they ignored that? Surely klaxons must have went off when the numbers tumbled under 100,000? What should have been a golden age for the SNP will be ridiculed in years to come due to the number of glorious chances that were squandered in bringing the UK state to the table.

    At the same time, it also comes down to the new Alba party. If they are serious about being a political force in Scotland then they need to get their act together also. There are 50,000 potential supporters looking at them with one eye but instead they are nowhere near making the impact on the public conscience that they believe they are. There should be a real propaganda campaign – especially at this moment when the SNP are fighting like rats in a sack and thus piling on the pressure for the SNP to begin taking the idea of independence seriously again.

    As Stuart says, this next year or so will define the independence movement. If the SNP vote Humza (God help us!!) then we’ll get Nicola Beta Version oh-point-2 and that means we descend the road to nowhere. If it’s Ash or Kate, then there is a faint chance that they may realise the mistakes of the past and therefore, get a national convention started to re-invigorate the movement. I’m not overly convinced about either of them but it will down to them if they win – I hope they have the confidence and the cojones to take on the existing hierarchy. But Alba also need to push – that too might re-awaken public political debate.

    Because if they don’t, then Starmer will take a handful of seats in Scotland despite Scotland continuing to vote nationalist …and then he will have the Labour Party ignore us. And they will continue to ignore us until they eventually fall at some future General Election. and when that happens, we get the Tories again. In one word, we are staring at a future of our-own personal made hell – oblivion.

    There are a couple of questions I find myself continually asking …how did it come to this …and why did no-one in the SNP hierarchy question the different political direction being taken post-2015?

  48. Antoine Bisset

    100%Yes says: “…will they commit to not mentioning either Independence or a Referendum in any forthcoming election manifesto…”

    Good Point. I have written a couple of times to Douglas Ross, suggesting that the Tories stop mentioning independence in their election material. It is always a highlight of Tory leaflets. I have suggested that the Tories concentrate on attacking the failures and shortcomings of the SNP government. There are plenty of those in every area.
    Attacking independence is to lose 50% of the potential voters because half the voters want independence. I also made the point that there will be a “Tory” party in an independent Scotland.
    Alas, he seems not to agree.


  49. Antoine Roquentin

    As always, voter “turn-out” will be key. There are many amongst the membership who are only peripherally aware of the contest, the candidates and the politics at-play. Argh! God help us all.

  50. Rogerborg

    It’s rather depressing that the benefits of a transferrable vote need to be explained, but probably correct given that 68% of UKers rejected it in 2011.

  51. joolz

    “while the SNP have given Mi-Voice 78,000 names, they only expect the oddly specific number of 54,000 to vote”.

    Maybe that’s the % of members who voted on the Bute House Agreement, and they are using the same percentage here.

    Which shows that Humza lied at the hustings when he said 95% of members voted for it. Perhaps he should have said that 95% of those who voted said yes. A very different thing. Words matter.

  52. Daisy Walker

    One way or another, it feels like it’s the end game now.

    If Humza wins, it will be a quick bonfire of the SNP/ScotGov, and a large decant to Alba.

    Sadly, I suspect Forbes is more of a danger – presentable, not stupid, but clearly not for Indy, just more good presentation skills, while Westminster destroys Scotland and the Indy movement, but does so on a slower heat.

    Anyway, any minute now there will be a Hitler in the Bunker video, and they won’t even have had to alter the script.

  53. Geoff Anderson

    Those who say we are not ready have forgotten why Independence is urgent.
    We are being “allocated” £4 Billion a year for interest on money borrowed fot CrossRail, HS2 etc.
    We are being “allocated £4 Billion a year on Defence and the £200 Billion Trident replacement is coming down the track.
    We are “credited” with 9.2% of North Sea income on a population basis when 95% lies in Scottish Waters.
    The Renewable Energy of Scotland is giving England cheap energy and the Storage batteries are being placed in England. The feeder cables to Europe have landfalls in England.

    The SNP do not raise these issues. They do not challenge GERs. They do not shout about WMD in the Central Belt of Scotland. This includes 200 Nuclear Warheads in storage and being transported through our streets.

    Perhaps if the SNP had put the focus on Independence instead of Murrell Enterprises and Social Engineering support for Independence would be over 60%.

    If we are not ready then only one Party is to blame and if we keep following their guide then it follows we will never be ready.

    If I employ a builder, and he fails to deliver my house on time, I don’t want excuses about being busy with another project or that he needed to employee more family members rather than competent people.
    Sturgeon took votes for Independence and used those Holyrood seats to push through HER personal agenda.

    I wish people would think more about the future generations of Scots and less about BetterTogether scare stories.

  54. stuart mctavish

    Breeks @6:49am

    Step back, sure – His strong belief in his right to lie to faithless atheists notwithstanding* he might even do so just as soon as he realises supporting a racist attack on the most ethnically diverse government in UK history by English football’s supreme whiter than whitey might not send quite the signal intended

    However, just as a former footballer might not be expected to think further than how well they’re received on the terraces, an experienced government minister MUST know full well that the people being compared with national socialists from last century (or servants of same) will be, at worst, parroting solutions offered them by the permanent civil service – ergo why not use the (pre?) law, that was reportedly used against his detractors last month, to arrest him for a racially motivated hate crime and have him removed from the contest by default (just in case).


  55. Republicofscotland

    It must be Regan if there’s to be independence, I implore those with the vote to vote Regan for the good of the entire country.

  56. Ottomanboi

    Let in the clear and fresh air of REPUBLICANISM.
    Frighten all the king’s horses and all the king’s men with cleansing insubordination.
    This antiquated imperialist Union must be blown apart.
    Beaufort 12 ought to do it.
    Who’s the hurricane candidate?
    Nothing less.

  57. Stoker

    Rev wrote:

    “Humza Yousaf, meanwhile, is offering more of the same failure that has characterised the last eight wasted years, both in terms of domestic governance and indy strategy.”


    “Yousaf is the anointed choice of the outgoing SNP hierarchy,”

    He’s also the choice of the SNP’s Westminster lickspittle, Stephan Flynn. Even after Yousaf’s dire car-crash television performances. That tells us all we need to know. We’re fucked!

    Ash is the only one with a worthwhile plan and the only one to show she has a backbone. But Ash will get nowhere near the levers of control. Sturgeon & Murrell have destroyed the SNP and every golden opportunity we’ve had to take back our right of self-determination. Sturgeon & Murrell must *NEVER* be allowed to forget that. EVER!

    There will be no more voting in Westminster elections from me. I’m on a permanent boycott of Westminster elections. And unless we send these self-serving turncoats a real hard message like that, we’re just going to get more of the same. I’ve had enough of all this pissing against the wind.

    Then add to that the utter fuckwits claiming to be indy supporters who repeatedly reward the Unionist media for their part in destroying our 2014 indy campaign by promoting direct links to their articles. And deliberately conning new WOS readers to part with their details to data-harvesting companies. Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if most of them doing this are still paid-up members of Sturgeon’s Nonce Party.

    To all the real indy supporters out there in Wingsland, stay safe and all the very best for the future. Time out for me. Going to spend some time on something different for a change until there is a decent turning of the tide. Murrell & Sturgeon need to be held responsible for all of this. Take care, folks!

  58. Lorna Campnell

    If Kate Forbes has caved on the S35 this early, and without undue pressure, then we are screwed. She cannot win against Westminster. Humza would fight it in the certain knowledge that he cannot win. Only Ash Regan knows she cannot win against Westminster and says she cannot win because it should be evident to all that the use of the S35 Order was legal and constitutional by dint of the Scotland Act. Personally, I want someone as leader who knows when she can win and when she can’t, and is willing to go back to the drawing board.

    Read this morning that Sturgeon is being considered for some high-powered, international job. Another Blair – although he did achieve something in Ireland. Iraq did for him. The GRRB did for Sturgeon. Take note, Humza and Kate.

  59. Geoff Anderson

    A history less for the SNP.

    1918 Ireland

    The main Party vanished overnight. Decay, decay,decay

    Sinn Féin won 73 of Ireland’s 105 seats in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland parliament at the general election in December 1918, twenty-five of them uncontested. The IPP, despite having been the largest party in Ireland for forty years, had not fought a general election since 1910; in many parts of Ireland its organisation had decayed and was no longer capable of mounting an electoral challenge. Many other seats were uncontested owing to Sinn Féin’s evident mass support, with other parties deciding that there was no point in challenging Sinn Féin given that it was certain to win.

  60. Effijy

    I’m surprised the SNP haven’t joined in with the once in a generation crap.

    Their message is give us your membership fees and let us keep our very well paid jobs and pensions while doing nothing toward making Scotland independent and having no effect whatsoever on Westminster policies.

    They are supposed to be the party of Independence, the party with a series of mandates for independence, a party who assured us we would not stand by and let Scotland be dragged out of the EU against our will, who would not allow us to continue being ruled by a Tory government a party we have never given a majority to in 70 years.

    The SNP leadership are telling us we could not support ourselves while we see countries like Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Hungary, Kazakhstan etc etc who were ruled over by Russia for Russia’s benefit grow and flourish without the resources that we have.

    SNP’s new message borrowed- we are too small, too weak, too incapable.

    Well I’m not and my country isn’t but SNP surrender that they are!

    Scotland’s No Point, SNP Party!

  61. Potace

    I hope your message has more traction than when you tried to explain AMS to SNP supporters, otherwise we’re doomed

  62. Rob

    Humza Yousaf was interviewed on Radio Scotland this morning. To me (a non-member but interested onlooker) he did not disgrace himself. I could quite understand how he’d appear as a sensible choice for some.

    FWIW, his being the Murrell candidate is what gives me most pause.

  63. John Main

    @akenaton says:12 March, 2023 at 9:17 am

    the Scottish electorate are not ready and without a majority in the country nothing can be achieved

    I think you make the common error of assuming that in a multi-variable, real-world scenario, that when one variable changes, the other variables remain constant.

    Regan will be a younger, fresher, dynamic change. It will help her that she doesn’t have a nasal, whiney voice like a nail scraping on slate, and a face like a skelped arse.

    As the saying goes, “Strong beliefs win strong men, and then make them stronger”. I think that as it is 2023, we can assume the same saying holds true for women.

    The fact that Regan has a plan, the usual “honeymoon period” politicians get, and Regan’s strongly held beliefs, will themselves grow Indy support.

    Obvs I don’t know if support will grow enough. I do believe, however, that the window of opportunity within which it will ever be possible to get a democratic vote in favour of Scottish Indy is time limited. That is because of the obvious demographic changes that are occurring, in many cases with the active support of Scotland’s voters. Including those Scots we all see on here, prioritising their precious progressive values above the pragmatic policies needed to win Indy.

    Regan is the last chance for Indy. There is no other option. Her plan is the only plan there is.

    It’s shit or bust.

  64. Liz

    I hope what you’re saying is accurate, smitty.
    There is, of course, still the problem of who counts the votes.

    After the voting, I hope people who want transparency, demand to see the figures.

  65. John McPhail

    Could be employed a post as Diversity Minister (as he is the progressive candidate) to go round the mosques with the LGBTQI+ agenda and garner their support for the cause.

    Big Jock wrote
    I can see Humza being left out of Forbes cabinet entirely.

  66. Ottomanboi

    Does Scotland need its Gandhi moment?
    No doubt. Alas Mr Yousaf is decidely not that moment.
    There is too much of the wee «munshi»*about him.

    *MUNSHI: Administrators, heads of department, accountants, and secretaries employed by the British colonial administration in India.
    In Scotland they are called STURGIES.

  67. Mia

    “They should be making hay out of this car crash”

    And I am sure they will, in due course, once the car crash has taken place. Don’t interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake, they say.

    Voters, which are the real SNP asset and prize here, have to see this car crash unfold in all its might to understand what is really going on and what Sturgeon and co have been up to with their pro-independence votes.

    Of three candidates to leader of “the” allegedly independence party, only one, let’s say that loud, only one, is presenting a viable plan (and has declared an intention) to pursue independence. Let that sink in. If I was a real pro-independence member in the SNP I would be worse than horrified and feel cheated by this. But not only members will feel this way. Voters too.

    Once this leadership context is over, the SNP will emerge either reinstated as a party of independence or rebranded as another devolutionist party to add to the political arms of the British state in Scotland. And let’s face, the odds sit with the latter.

    Personally, I do not think Ash will win for two reasons:

    1. The powers that be will rig the election if they must before letting her win. This is because she would rebuild in weeks what the political fraud Sturgeon needed 8 years to dismantle:

    a. she would re-galvanise the yes movement and restore hope, which is what the British state apparatchicks are trying to burn down to ashes

    b. she will put the wheels back on the SNP as a vehicle for independence, so the threat of independence becomes more real than it has ever been in almost 9 years. This is precisely what the state has been trying to stop with the SNP hijacking.

    It is also very likely, if what she said in the interviews is something to go by, that Ms Regan will clean up the sewers of corruption within the party. This will mean the end of many careers and therefore there are huge vested interests inside and outside the party putting a lot of pressure to ensure Ms Regan does not win.

    2. Personally, I think the number of devolutionists/careerist and opportunists using the SNP as a trojan horse to pursue their own pet-causes might have already balanced out, if not surpassed the numbers of real pro-independence members.

    In a previous thread, Mr Murray mentions that the 50,000 figure newspapers give for the number of members who have left the SNP is, in his opinion, an overestimation. Mr Murray indicates it is in fact the net figure in the direction of exit, giving a much bigger figure of around 70,000 members as those who might have actually exited the party.

    Mr Murray mentions that around 20,000 people more interested in other causes rather than independence, might have joined the party instead.

    If I did not misread the external article linked in the Rev’s article above, HQ have told the company running the vote that the expectation is of just 54,000 votes. Given the importance of this leadership contest, you would expect that every active member of the party would be very keen in casting their votes so, as the Rev points out above, this suggests over 20,000 “voters” might not be such, but rather “ghost” voters.

    If 20,000 of those 54,000 votes are going to be cast by the new recruits with other pet causes different to independence, that leaves 34,000 potential real pro-indy supporters. But we cannot forget the massive influx of careerists and devolutionists from labour since 2015 which will fall under those 34,000

    Judging by the results of the latest Scotgoes pop poll where the overwhelming majority of the membership is predicted to vote for the flavour of devolution either Yousaf or Forbes offer, the number of real pro-independence supporters left among the SNP membership may in fact be much lower.

    What this leadership contest is going to do is to flush out of the SNP those real pro-independence supporters who are still there. It is the last stage of the party take-over.

    Overall, what this is telling us is the SNP has been successfully hollowed out in the space of 8 years. The only thing left of it, is the brand and its main asset: the SNP voters. The brand is all what you need to fool enough voters to keep the gravy train going while deliberately thwarting independence at the same time.

    For the most politically motivated, it is (and has been) obvious for some time the SNP is just a shell of its former self. But most people go on with their lives showing very little interest in politics.

    This contest will make things more clear, not just for the membership, but more importantly for the voters at large. Because that is what we need: awareness from the bulk of SNP voters that the SNP as a party of independence ceased to exist in 2014 and what is now called SNP is just another devolutionist version of labour using the carrot of independence to win seats.

    So why wasting your ammunition before the real battle starts? The real battle starts after this leadership contest ends, when a self-confessed devolutionist leader, with no intention whatsoever to pursue independence, is put in control of the party. That is the evidence which will cause outrage among real pro-indy supporters and force a change in voting intention.

    Your political ammunition will be most effective when the bull’s eye sitting on the evidence is within the voters’ visual field.

    Be patient.

  68. Livionian

    I’m saying this now, Forbes will not challenge the UK governments GRA block. That is what is called campaign bullshit.

    Whilst it is immoral for politicians to say different things to different people to win a contest, it happens in every campaign up and down the land. She will never go through with it because her religious convictions won’t let her

  69. James Galt

    Yes Forbes is likely to fold under the pressure of actively supporting policies she doesn’t really believe in. At base honest but weak.

    A Forbes leadership would be a weak leadership and would suit the British State nicely as would a Yousaf leadership – he could safely be allowed to play himself for a couple of years until a unionist coalition can be cobbled together – who knows maybe including the Greens who suddenly discover they’re internationalists and not concerned with petty nationalisms yada yada.

    Yes Ash Regan is the only one worrying them, if she wins she will not have an easy life that’s for sure.

  70. Liz

    Rob, the clue there is Radio Scotland.
    Humza would have had time to prepare his answers

  71. John Main

    @Effijy says:12 March, 2023 at 10:16 am

    we see countries like Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Hungary, Kazakhstan etc etc who were ruled over by Russia for Russia’s benefit grow and flourish

    Plenty of regulars on here who wish to see these countries back under armed occupation, elimination of dissidents by extreme measures, enslavement and colonialist exploitation.

    To be scrupulously fair, I don’t recall you being one of the rabid supporters of aggressive, imperialist, Russti expansion.

    But I don’t recall you ever calling out the worst offenders either.

    Good to see you now off the fence.

    Maybes you will be able to learn to see the difference between a managed, rules-based, immigration policy and an industrialised extermination policy as your next educational objective.

  72. North chiel

    “ big Jock @ 0904am , I can see a place in the cabinet for Ash “ . Undoubtedly , if HY is squeezed out by both . If either KF or AR win I would fully expect either to appoint the other as deputy leader . In either scenario surely Ash Regan is going to have a huge say and significant influence in government going forward . I would fully expect her and KF would be formulating the Independence strategy as a matter of urgency . Ash might well have much more influence than we realise (at present ). However, forget it if HY wins .

  73. Big Jock

    Geoff. That’s true about Ireland. The issue we have in Scotland is that only 50% of the populace are determined nationalists. In Ireland it was about 80% yes.

    The outrage felt in every corner of Ireland isn’t the same as Scotland. We have far too many unionists in the indigenous population. and incomers from England. However if the SNP dies split, and it will under Humza. Then Alba will benefit by at least 20%. Many MPs and MSPs will also defect.

    The problem throughout Scottish history remains divide and rule.

  74. Keefer

    Ever Get the Feeling You’ve Been Cheated?

  75. Eric

    Flynn has added his support to Humza. Be interesting to see who will replace him as Westminster leader should one of the other contenders win.

  76. Patsy Millar

    I despair.

  77. Vivian O’Blivion

    In the Atlantic City of real life Nuckie Johnson (as opposed to fictional Nuckie Thompson of the HBO series) ward bosses kept lists of the dead and folk who’d moved away.
    Come Election day, the dead and missing would vote. Bus loads of doppelgängers would go from polling station to polling station at $5 a pop.
    The Murrell crime family widnae be oot of place in Boardwalk Empire.

  78. Gord

    Percentages, numbers, members, candidates, all fairly meaningless when the Sturrells have hired GCHQ to run the event. The outcome is already known to them

  79. Alf Baird

    Karen @ 8:23 am

    “How to spot fascism”

    The root of ‘the scourge’ of colonialism is always fascism (Cesaire). Wherever we see colonialism we see fascism.

    Fascism is a ‘regime of oppression for the benefit of a few (and) the entire administrative and political machinery of a colony has no other goal’ (Memmi).

    Scots therefore live under colonialism and fascism – which is why we want independence, which is decolonisation.

  80. Desimond

    I reckon Kate Forbes would just be another Nicola Sturgeon. Professional enough but soon seduced by the appearance of power and prestige and cue so many photoshoot opportunities and podium standings whilst Indy slides down the dark ladder of despair.

    In all sad honesty, i think its done.

    Alba wont make in-roads even when SNP self destruct. Its been wounded since the start and no-one backs a lame horse.

    The mention earlier of a unionist coalition might just come true. Anas and friends would sign up in an instant.

    At this point looking forward, i reckon the best chance of Scotland becoming Independent is someone in England starting an English Independence Party and appealing to those folk who believe they subsidise our existence

  81. robertkknight

    I won’t link to it, but The Herald is running on its front page a claim that Sturgeon is being touted for some UN envoy role…which if true would of course require the nod of HMG.

    All the jigsaw pieces falling neatly into place…

  82. TheSNPLeftMe

    Eric, The Westminster Leader is picked by MPs

    Big Jock, Perhaps if school kids had been taught about the Clearances, the decades of occupation by a Colonial Army, The transportation of Scots into slavery, etc. A lack of Scottish History and a lot of English propaganda explains why it is not 80%

    A wasted decade and momentum lost.

  83. Ottomanboi

    Divide and rule is the old imperialist dictum.
    It worked for the Romans until things fell apart internally.
    The British copied the method. Until the inevitable internal falling apart.
    The cost of WW1 helped Irish nationalism and to a certain extent Indian and Egyptian nationalisms. But not without much struggle.
    The American desire to be rid of the ailing British empire and replace it with their own hegemony, after rescuing the British from possible stalemate in the European theatre of war, played a significant part.
    All this collapsing of old orders passed sleepy Scotland by. Unionism was so ingrained in the system. Like a conforting drug it is for many the default go to prescription.
    The withdrawal symptoms will be unpleasant but necessary for survival.
    Scotland, however, must avoid becoming another Ulster.
    Divide and rule is now divide and destroy.
    The state of the SNP confirms.

  84. Anton Decadent

    Time is weird now after the last three years but I distinctly remember a swarm of rats leaving HMS Scottish Labour when it was on its way down. They suddenly discovered that they were Scottish nationalists, something which also bothered me at the same time was how many of the new SNP representatives had family members or spouse who were also going to selflessly serve Scotland. It just seemed like the Lib Dems up in the Highlands And Islands, the Tories down south and Labour everywhere, get as many family and friends onto the payroll whilst the going was good and the media pliable.

    It is good to see this being shaken up a bit, hopefully more people are realising that our political classes and media have been compliant in telling people, every one of whom they assume to be a gormless idiot, one thing whilst always aiming for another namely the accumulation of power and contacts. Just look at the Greens as a prime example and the fringes of the Left and Right are the same.

    I’d be interested in what AR’s policies would be re Police Scotland, would it be put back to regional independence or remain a centralised state police?

  85. Alf Baird

    North chiel @ 11:05 am

    “If either KF or AR win I would fully expect either to appoint the other as deputy leader”

    Doubtful, there is an infinite ideological distance between KF and AR.

    Judging by KF’s ‘actions’ on Scotwind giveaway, as freeport cheerleader for Cromarty, the non national energy co, national inv bank, non scot currency, pro s.30 blind alleys, etc etc, KF would seem a better fit in the Scottish Tory branch party – i.e. her track record is useless for Scotland or for independence. Her answer to STUC on the great whisky plunder was also enlightening as to where her loyalties lie.

    Judge them by their actions not words. Ash is the only MSP who has resigned from the colonial trough and offers the only plan to end it.

  86. Gregory Beekman

    I left the SNP some years ago and joined Alba.


    …in fairness to Nicola Sturgeon…
    (don’t all throw rocks at me at once!)

    Salmond lost indyref then buggered off, leaving Sturgeon to pick up the pieces. That was a tough gig to give anyone.

    Brexit: there was no way Theresa May was going to trade an independent Scotland for a Brexit deal. It’s a MYTH that Sturgeon had any Brexit leverage.

    Covid did scupper things for a few years.


    My biggest complaint about Sturgeon is her lack of transparency. She should just have stated in 2014 and in 2016 that it would be at least 2024 before anything could happen on a new indyref. I think most people would have said, “yeah, let’s wait a decade”. But she kept promising and then couldn’t deliver her promise. A bizarre strategy.

    Overall, though, I don’t think anyone could have done much in the first two parliaments after the heartbreaking defeat of 2014.

    But once 2024 comes, we can all say enough time has passed for indyref2 to be seriously pursued. No one can seriously complain if we waited a decade.

  87. John Main

    @Alf Baird says:12 March, 2023 at 11:48 am

    Fascism is a ‘regime of oppression for the benefit of a few …’

    Is there therefore any time in recorded history when Scots have not been living under fascism?

    Has there ever been a stable polity, anywhere or anytime in world history, when fascism (by that definition) did not apply?

    I struggle to think of any examples. Sweden might have been a good one, but that is defo not stable, as their progressive policies are destroying them. Plenty of Wings BTL posters will describe the Swedes as fascists because they have the temerity to defend themselves against external foes.

    Plus, of course, the Swedes dared to question the Covid orthodoxy, which meant progressive voices on here and elsewhere took agin them for that.

    Covid was most certainly used as a pretext for fascist oppression of the majority in Scotland, to whom Covid posed little threat. A wildly popular policy on here, as I recall NS being cheered to the rafters.

    I guess then that a slur (fascist) that can be applied to every society in history is worthless.

    I’d be careful Alf. Your “Scotland as Colony” trope has some traction. But extending the concept further by invoking the bogeyman of fascism is setting it up for ridicule.

  88. John Main

    @Anton Decadent says:12 March, 2023 at 12:04 pm

    I’d be interested in what AR’s policies would be re Police Scotland

    I’d be interested in her position on the EU.

    Say what you like about Yousaf and Forbes. If they have given up on Indy, then they have also de facto given up on the EU. For those 1.1 million Scots who voted Out (and may still have not changed their minds) that will be in their favour.

    I guess it’s possible that not every SNP member mulling over their votes will be pro-EU. It does seem extraordinary, considering the years of “dragged out against our will” bleating, that the subject never comes up.

  89. Confused

    The importance of what Regan says is this : THIS IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL BTW so pay attention

    – she is putting it out there INTO THE PUBLIC MIND, from a “proper politician” (not randos on the internet) that INDEPENDENCE IS A MATTER FOR THE SCOTS ALONE and once we’ve decided we go straight to the UN for INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION (which will be pushing at an open door, believe it)

    – there is no middle step, or rather “maze without an exit” chasing our tails forever hoping for “westminster permission”

    the point being

    … ETC

    get it into the thick skulls of the english, but also our own public and political class.

    The tools we need have already been crafted for us, an entire machinery at the UN, waiting for us; just use the tools already there.

    The English have very thick skulls and cannot conceive – whether it be taxi drivers from Walsall, or oxbridge mandarins at the FCO –


    it does not compute.

    The UK is Britain, right, and Britain is just a name for “Super England”, so it’s just basically, England, and some extra bits. You get this same logical fallacy at all levels – but a UN resolution will knock it out their skulls.

  90. Confused

    S3TTL3R COLONIALISM IS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION 1514’S MODERN ENEMY. S3ttler coloni4lism is premised on the state’s recruitment of a class of settl3rs whose goal is to not only occupy the land of the Indigenous but also to eliminate the Indigenous who stand in their way

    A COMPRADOR ELITE is a native manager of European business houses in East and South East Asia, and, by extension, comprador social groups that play broadly similar roles in other parts of the world. Comprador elite class is a term for the natives of a c0lonized land that are “bought” by the c0lonizers.

    remind you of anything?

  91. Republicofscotland

    “Once this leadership context is over, the SNP will emerge either reinstated as a party of independence or rebranded as another devolutionist party to add to the political arms of the British state in Scotland. And let’s face, the odds sit with the latter.”

    Spot on Mia, its Murrell and GCHQ we’re dealing with here, the former needs his puppet in place (Yousaf) to keep hidden all his and his wife’s dirty little secrets, and the latter is acting at Westminster’s behest, Westminster simply put cannot afford to see Scotland leave the union, the Golden Goose cannot be allowed to fly away.

    I have a gut feeling that Regan will win but be cheated out of it, she’ll win because the majority of SNP members realise what’s at stake here, not just the welfare of the entire nation but the party that they love.

  92. bluegrass banjo

    is this theory batfcuk crazy

    if SNP voted for the single market during brexit vote house of commons – only lost by three

    trade a return of brexit vote for indyref2

  93. Alf Baird

    John Main @ 12:22 pm

    Postcolonial theory tells us what to expect based on the evidence from centuries of colonialism globally.

    “fascism…is the dialectic result of states which were semi-colonial during the period of independence” (i.e. decolonization) (Fanon)

    Some examples:

    “Privileges multiply and corruption triumphs, while morality declines”

    “The (national) party, a true instrument of power in the hands of the bourgeoisie, reinforces the (colonial) machine, and ensures that the people (indy movement) are hemmed in and immobilized”

    The national party “becomes more and more clearly anti-democratic, an implement of coercion”

    “concessions are snapped up by foreigners; scandals are numerous, ministers grow rich.. members of parliament feather their nests”

  94. Dan Watt

    Is there even a snowball’s chance that Yousless won’t win?

  95. stuart mctavish

    @Anton Decadent

    Aye but its not even the ex unionists gaslighting (or maybe even being serious) about wanting to destroy it

    eg Swinney

    “We’ve never been closer to independence, thats why I chose to take a step back and, after listening carefully to his cunning plan to continue without one, endorse Humza to carry the can across the finish line..

    or words to that effect.

    Make you wonder if Alba could get good traction with a policy to replace the woman face dressing up bill with one more directly related to tar and feathering.

  96. Ian M

    Well, the smoking ruins of the SNP are being displayed for all and sundry to commiserate over. Macpherson, like Harper and legions of others, has fessed up that independence was only ever a convenient ruse to harvest votes for people like them. It was a giant job creation scheme, landing them huge salaries, expenses and benefits for a long time to come, and they want it to continue. And what have they done in return for being showered with easy money and large houses? Anything, anybody?
    The entire leadership and their cronies, including all the spads, appointees and tiny campaign groups allocated grants should be sacked forthwith for corruption, negligence and making false promises. Now we are told independence was only a dream to be wheeled out when votes were required. A PR scheme for the gullible public.
    No wonder all they have to fall back on is the entirely vacuous claims of being ‘progressive’. Please explain where their progressive economic, land reform, jobs, education and health policies are. Gender reform and hate crime are not necessarily progressive if they do not have the support of the general population, and you cannot persuade them with clear, calm reason, instead of denouncing any questions with your own hate.
    Eight years and nothing to show except a climate of antagonism, alienation and the junking of independence, the supposed raison d’etre of the party and its vote. What a shower of carpet bagging fraudsters and charlatans.

  97. Bob Mack

    Chances of SNP members voting Regan——zero.

    Im very much afraid the influence of the apparently saintly but utterly imcompetent Nicola will condemn the SNP to following another false messiah. Her legacy has been to lead a once thriving movement into the empty desert of false hope.

    I do not believe the remaing SNP members have the courage to choose another way. They will still believe in their mind it is the party of Sturgeon and will choose accotdingly.

    It matters not to them she has jumped ship and betrayed them all. They will vote in her memory and not for the prime function of the party which she and her husband have effectively turned into their own plaything rather than a vehicle to express and serve the will of the people.

    I fear it is over for the next decade at least, and I have probably not got the luxury of that timeframe. Sad.

  98. Cod

    Voting SNP member(still, and now quite glad I stuck it out) here. If Yousaf wins this independence is done, at least for many more years. It’s that simple.

    Never mind the fact he’s the most useless candidate I’ve ever seen put up for the leadership (I bang on about this to everyone I speak to, but we’re talking about a man so useless he managed to create a Bill so bad that the people responsible for enforcing it how precisely zero idea how they are supposed to do that and thus implementation of that Bill has been kicked down the road, and will likely continue to be so again). His idea of gaining independence, from his own comments and statements, is to “start a conversation” with Westminster.

    Either he’s simply not been paying attention or he’s not seriously interested in challenging the Westminster / Unionist narrative. Either case means there would be no serious movement on independence under an SNP government headed by Yousaf.

    I’ve been saying Regan 1 Forbes 2 since the trio announced their candidacy. Hoefully enough of us – actual SNP members who are committed to independence first and dealing with all other issues within the framework of an independent Scotland – see the same way and Regan wins. I’d be considerably less happy with Forbes winning, but that would still be marginally better than Yousaf, since he represents a straight continuation of the lack of progress of the last 8 years.

  99. DavidRitchie

    Drop the name calling stick to how do you get Indy

  100. Geoff Anderson

    Herald article on Sturgeon/UN role

  101. RedStarTrout

    The saddest thing about the comfy slippers and pension crowd we have in Westminster is their lack of imagination and ambition, not just for Scotland but themselves.
    Yes their Westminster job would end with independence, but new andd better jobs would be theirs for the asking. We would need at least 50 ambassadors just in the first couple of years. Are they all so allergic to champagne and Ferrero Rocher that they wouldn’t want the job of representing us in Paris, Washington, Rome or wherever? Then there are the international organisations we would need representatives at like the UN, the EU, the WTO and all the others.
    With independence we could simply continue their current pay and pensions, and even increase them, but put them to work for us either around the world or in Scotland. But maybe they just can’t imagine anything beyond Westminster. It’s sickening that we’ve elected people with such limited ambitions.

  102. Cherrybank

    Glad I switched my financial support from the SNP to the Alba party but retained my SNP membership.
    Will vote Regan 1 ,Forbes 2 .

  103. dearieme

    “if you care even a tiny bit about actually achieving independence”

    But none of them ever did. They wanted just to be a satrapy of Brussels. Independence my left foot! Independence would mean staying outside the EU (and, if they’d any sense, outside NATO). They wouldn’t have the guts to even try.

  104. Stuart MacKay

    John Main @12:35pm

    I wouldn’t be so sure that they’ve given up on the EU. The warming of relations and the Windsor Framework would seem to say that the UK and the EU are growing together once more. Of course, we’ve yet to see that the DUP in Northern Ireland and the Brexiters are going to say/do but it seems that some sort of rapprochement is happening. That will no doubt suit devolutionists like Humza who will be telling us that Staying with the UK and with close(r) ties to the EU means that we’ll be able to have our cake and eat it.

  105. Guybrush Threepwood

    What has been happening over at WGD? It appears that I have been banned from posting.

    Only a few months ago, the regulars on WGD were excited at the prospect of a de-facto independence vote, now it MUST be avoided at all costs because it is an ‘Alba’ policy.

    Why would any independence supporter disagree with the ONLY candidate who has a plan for delivering independence? Why vote for candidates who simply want to continue kicking the Indy project into the long grass? Don’t these individuals want independence?
    The YES movement is already fractured after 8 years of doing nothing.

    Remember Nicola’s secret plan?
    Remember when we had to wait until we knew what the Brexit deal would look like?
    Remember when we had to wait until Brexit actually happened?
    Remember all those National front covers telling us that the independence starting gun had been fired? (that gun must have ran out of bullets long ago)
    Remember Pete Wishart telling us that Westminster was secretly planning for a second referendum?


    The National is more interested in promoting American-style identity politics than pursing independence.

    This is why gatekeeping matters

  106. Cat-Sith

    Obviously I agree that Regan is the only choice that keeps the SNP as a party of independence.

    I still however find it a tad strange that 2 articles ago this site hammers Useless for his reply to Back Off Scotland’s abortion questions then has a piece by Regan the same day and at no point was it mentioned by anyone other than me that her reply to them was the same as his.

  107. Astonished

    Surely Sturgeon cannot get an EU role – as her country (greater tory englandshire) is out of the EU ?

    Kite flying to see if any international organization wants an amoral plotter to destroy them from within ?

    Hopefully, the only position opening up for her is as a prison trusty.

  108. Robert Hughes

    Sorry , Stu , to go O/T and onto a subject you said was proscribed . But this latest piece of lying garbage from Main can’t go unchallenged …..

    ” Plenty of regulars on here who wish to see these countries back under armed occupation, elimination of dissidents by extreme measures, enslavement and colonialist exploitation. ”

    Right , seeing as how you seem to have endless time to bore BTL here , go back over the last 13 months comments on this subject and produce ONE comment that backs-up your statement . Or one that supports R , for that matter .

    Some of us have been trying to break through the most insidious , wall-to-wall propaganda seen since WW2 , the elevation of one of the most blatantly corrupt regimes of recent times to * noble freedom fighters * status – rather than the mob of vicious State plunderers who have brought incalculable carnage down on their own people , which they undoubtedly are – and seem intent on precipitating nuclear holocaust in order to remain in power .

    With respect , Stu . If this subject is forbidden here , that must mean a ban/suspension for anyone who so much as tangentially refers to it . I’ve said previously , I’m happy to stick to that , but not if * others * are allowed to make categorically false statements

  109. Republicofscotland

    Its undeniable, that if Regan loses the SNP loses, for the SNP will no longer been seen, even some who are still members, as a party for Scottish independence.

    In that event Alba will replace the SNP oh admittedly it will take wee bit of time to do so but it will, and the SNP will fade away.

    So in reality the membership MUST make sure that Regan wins, if Regan wins the party and the country will prosper, if Regan loses, both will suffer, independence will be put back a bit, and the SNP will fade away, its up to the membership to make sure neither happens.

  110. North chiel

    “ Alf Baird says @1216 there is an infinite ideological difference between KF& AR “ on the face of it might appear to be valid . However, how much influence has Sturgeon had OVER Forbes over ideological policy? , and is it possible that KF might move in a more radical direction if she became leader . She can hardly ignore AR if she obtains significant support in the vote . Might KF be campaigning on the basis of “ don’t scare the horses” to capture the centre ground between Sturgeon’s proxy and radical AR . It could be likely she would purge the Sturgeonists from power if she won ( why wouldn’t she they are all rooting for HY) . Thereafter , the void within the hierarchy would have to be filled with a coalition of her own & AR’s backers .

  111. John Main

    @Robert Hughes 1:50

    lying garbage

    Find … one that supports R

    As always, somebody posts mince. I respond, and then I am the bad one. Ho hum.

    You “don’t recall” the posts supporting R? You have “no knowledge” of the screeds of them, for week after week?

    Uh oh. There is no way to sugar-coat this, Bob. You have Nicola Sturgeon disease.

  112. Scot Finlayson

    For all the `Ben Macpherson`s` in Scotland,

    `That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
    Let him depart; his passport shall be made
    And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
    We would not die in that man’s company
    That fears his fellowship to die with us`

    Henry V.

  113. Xaracen

    Confused said:


    Indeed it isn’t, and neither on their own is the UK, and neither of their MP representations on their own represent the UK in the UK’s parliament.

    Iain Lawson’s blog might have an interesting read on this topic for you tomorrow.

  114. DMcV

    Scotland isn’t ready for independence. We can’t even consistently win 50% in polls, the current Government are not demonstrating that an independent scotland would be well run while the pro-independence opposition (ALBA, the splutterers below the line on this site) appear willing to let the NHS, the economy, the poor, the transport system, the environment and much else go top pot while they pursue an independence, and nothing else, that 50% of people don’t want.

  115. Saffron Robe

    Wise counsel, Stuart, I hope those who have a vote take heed although I’m not sure it will affect the outcome. There is no way that Hazmat Useless would win fairly and squarely. He is clearly unfit to be First Minister as past incidents testify to. That is why the Murrells will have contacted GCHQ and asked for the votes to be fiddled if all else fails: “London we have a problem, there is a grave risk that a bona fide independence candidate could be elected as First Minister”!

  116. TheSNPLeftMe

    I’ve had enough.

    “Ben Macpherson, minister for social security in the Scottish Government, further claimed that the transition period following any vote for Scotland to leave the UK could take “many years” or even “potentially decades”.

    He argued that Scotland does not currently have the necessary infrastructure to become independent quickly and successfully.

    As a result, he told party colleagues: “Any reckless, overly disruptive path to statehood would quickly make our quality of life in Scotland poorer.

    “Better to go down a gear and take the journey at a reasonably safe speed than crash trying to rush things.”

  117. Doug

    The thought of tractors like Macpherson, Yousaf, Stewart McDonald and their gutless ilk demanding we vote for them in order for them to sit on their pension-pillowed backsides whilst they ignore Scotland’s independence and brown-nose with their fellow unionists in Westminster and Holyrood is too disgusting to contemplate.

    If Regan doesn’t get chosen as leader I hope she and those in the SNP who think like her [dear god there must be some!] will join Alba.

    Vote Alba. Rid Scotland of SNP tractors.

  118. PhilM

    Red Band Trailer for new film
    Streaming available BTL on WoS

    “People Getting Pointlessly Exercised About A War on Independence Website”
    Cast List
    John Main in the role of Volodymyr Provoker
    Robert Hughes as Vladimir Provoked
    Uncredited Extras: Hundreds of Thousands of Dead Soldiers

  119. Gordon Gekko

    “Surely Sturgeon cannot get an EU role ”

    It’s the perfect job for her, She’s been doing Brussels budgets and bidding and privatisations since she was leader.Selling Scotland under everyone’s feet. Surprised she doesn’t get an EU award for it. They wrote the austerity driven growth commission for her.

  120. stuart mctavish

    @David Ritchie

    re dont hurt feels, stick to strategy

    Any idea why the electronic voting is programmed to take a fortnight?

    ie is it to compensate for internet speed in borders and highlands & islands, or is it more a function of how quickly a couple of teams working 8 hour shifts can complete about 27001 voting forms with auditable aliases?

  121. Ottomanboi

    An SNP that was not piloted by the WorldWideWimpsofWoke might have seized England’s plethora of difficulties as golden opportunities.
    Even the «AngloSaxophone» the BBC is in a mess.
    The structure is decayed, the warning signs are everywhere.
    Impossible to stroll past without seeing.
    The end is nigh…but for what?

  122. Gordon Gekko

    dearieme says:

    12 March, 2023 at 1:31 pm

    “if you care even a tiny bit about actually achieving independence”

    But none of them ever did. They wanted just to be a satrapy of Brussels. Independence my left foot! Independence would mean staying outside the EU (and, if they’d any sense, outside NATO). They wouldn’t have the guts to even try. ”

    Brilliant ! Somebody as read books And educated themselves And understand it.

    And the sheep can’t see it. Think the EU is left wing and going to save them. These nutters have been asleep for 40 years. They definitely don’t understand trade or money.

    Let’s Put it this way. EVERYTHING, every policy, in the Common Weal library would fail the EU treaties test. The odd few might make it to the ECJ stage. Only to be thrown out for being too left wing.

  123. Doug

    Only a matter of time until the unionist SNP changes policy to allow its politicians to accept seats in England’s house of lords. Their treachery will be complete.

  124. Ottomanboi

    «Scotland is not ready for independence»….old Britannia still dishing up the cauld kale to her fawning patrons.
    The old colonial witch tried that on its colonial subjects in the last century with zero success. They knew slops by the stink.
    Even brave little Barbados has now signalled enough.
    Political eunuchs run the show here, how «genderly» appropriate for that grand design land of identity shape shifters and «onanists».
    Just lurv that progressive narrative.

  125. Gordon Gekko

    Does anybody know the law that If Alba won a majority like the SNP. If they could change the parliament to first passed the post voting system?

    Get rid of this neoliberal, neo colonial system we now have. Then we could implement some real change that we voted for.

  126. robertkknight

    Looking at the general state of Sturgeon’s rancid SNP, the supposed ‘big hitters’, the candidates, the old-guard, the membership, the devolutionists and cozy-feet types, I’m coming to the conclusion that the only way that Scotland will achieve independence in my lifetime is when England itself decides to cut loose.

    Once the oil is replaced by alternatives and spy satellite technology makes Trident D-5 carrying ‘Boomers’ parked on seabeds ‘visible’ and therefore redundant, there’ll be no need for England to continue in a union with Scotland.

    Unless and until then, we’ll be fed more bullshit than a mushroom farm by, you’ve guessed it, our ever honest and trustworthy SNP.

  127. Owen Mullions

    Daisy Walker @ 9:53
    “Any minute now there will be a bunker video”
    There already is:Behind the scenes at Humza4FM

  128. Mia

    “Salmond lost indyref then buggered off, leaving Sturgeon to pick up the pieces. That was a tough gig to give anyone”

    Let’s review the “pieces” Mr Salmond left STurgeon to “pick up”, shall we?

    By 14 November 2014, the day Mr Salmond officially stood down and the political fraud took over, Mr Salmond handed to Sturgeon a political party in control of the majority of the seats in Holyrood. You can hardly refer to that as a “piece” she could hold her nose to pick up.

    At that time, there were at least two polls and plenty newspapers headlines which already predicted a landslide win for the SNP in the 2015 GE election. One of those headlines anticipated the SNP wining 54 seats. Let me repeat this, Mr Salmond handed Sturgeon a party ALREADY on course to take most of the seats in Westminster, so hardly a party in decline. Mr Salmond handed the fraud a party whose popularity was ascending, not descending. Again, this was not something the political fraud could hold her nose to pick up.

    And let’s be clear – this landslide win was anticipated BEFORE the political fraud betrayed the movement by claiming a vote for the party was not a vote for independence or a referendum. This landslide win was ON THE ASSUMPTION a vote for the party was a vote for independence.

    On 22 November 2014, just a few days after the fraud took over from Mr Salmond, the party’s membership stood at over 92,000. Again, this is not what I would call “a piece to pick up” This was a fully formed party structure.

    Mr Salmond handed this political fraud a very, very healthy party with over 92,000 members. Most of those were enthusiastic and engaged pro-independence members. The minimum this fraud had to do was to manage that membership and nurture that enthusiasm and engagement. She did the opposite: spectacularly mismanaged it to scare the pro-independence membership away and instead substitute it with careerists and freaks more interested in the wants of perverts and freaks than independence.

    The results of a yougov poll published on the 30 October 2014 put the yes vote at 49% and the No vote at 45% (Don’t knows at 6%). Let me repeat this, in the space between 19 September 2014 and the 30 October 2014, Mr Salmond, still the leader of the SNP and FM, put again the yes vote ahead the no vote, proving the polls prior to indyref which put the yes vote ahead were real.

    The results of a panel base poll published on the 5 November 2014 stll put yes vote at 46% and no vote at 45% (don’t knows at 6% and refused at 2%).

    So not only Mr Salmond left this political fraud a solid 45% support for independence which stubbornly refused to back down, he actually managed to increase the support for independence, despite of the vow, to be higher than the no vote in the weeks after the referendum. This is hardly “a piece” the fraud could say she had to turn her nose at to pick up either. This was akin to a gold chest that she was expected to manage and to take over the fucking line. And what did she do? She flushed it down the toilet.

    The evidence is all there. Mr Salmond handed this political fraud a healthy party which was on the rise, with a huge increase in the membership, with bags of energy and very engaged activists, with the best prospects for a electoral win and with support for independence not only refusing to back down but actually incresing. Mr Salmond left a party ready to put up the mother of all fights for independence taking advantage of the brexit vote being in the horizon. It was this political fraud who threw water over the pro-independence belly-fire.

    Mr Salmond left at a time of grievance against Westminster because of their default on the delivery of the vow, and the prospect of a brexit vote which shoud have been EXPLOITED by STurgeon with all she got. Instead, this political fraud let every golden opportunity pass us by as somebody who watches bored how water runs under a bridge.

    If all that was not enough, the political fraud goes on to anesthetise (if not euthanase) the yes movement by removing the wheels of the SNP right before the GE, effectively removing its most effective weapon against brexit. What kind of idiot does that?

    So plese don’t give us the nonsense of demanding fairness to this serial waster. You are being incredibly unfair to Mr Salmond. As a leader he did all the hard work and handed a granted success to the political fraud if she was willing to take it. It was her and only her who threw it all away.

    This woman does not deserve pity. She deserve contempt for how she squandered all the work Mr Salmond did and how she mismanaged the party, the activists, the support for yes and every effing opportunity he left on the table ready for her to use. She should be made accountable for all the mess she made and not be wrapped in a faux coat of victimhood. She ain’t no victim. She has behaved disgracefully.

    Mr Salmond left everything on the table for his successor to take yes over the line. What ready to use opportunities, what membership, what level of support for yes and what electoral prospects for the party has this political fraud left on the table before she buggers off?

  129. Breeks

    DMcV says:
    12 March, 2023 at 2:40 pm

    Scotland isn’t ready for independence. We can’t even consistently win 50% in polls, the current Government are not demonstrating that an independent….

    That’s like saying a diseased body isn’t ready for it’s recovery. It doesn’t make sense. Why would anybody “choose” to stay ill, and postpone taking their medicine until they were better?

    Alex Salmond started his fight with 6 Westminster MP’s when Indy support was polling at 26% or thereabouts.

    I’m tired of this infectious defeatism. If these Trans defectives can infiltrate and take over a Party, then why can’t we? Let US put the fear of god in them!

    If Westminster can re-write the rules of Holyrood, then why can’t we? Does Westminster have a Claim of Right? (Spoiler alert: No it doesn’t).

    If Westminster can blag it’s legitimacy without proving a damned thing, then why aren’t we blagging ours when we bloody well can and still have the signed paperwork to prove it?

    Jesus Scotland, wake the fuck up and get off your knees. Scotland could be invaded by a pack of Brownies and Jack Russell Terrier and we’d be tying ourselves in knots trying to figure out an escape plan because the pack leader says we’re not allowed to undo the clovehitch which binds us.

    Scotland the Brave eh? That mighty nation which you don’t even need a fkg army to conquer because they’ve been conditioned to obey anybody and everybody passing through the place for the last 300 years.

    “Verily, the Scots are well-known as an antidote to the English.” said Pope Martin V in 1421.

    Care to speculate on how he’d describe us Scots today? “Verily, what a bunch of spineless non-entities these Scots are. Such a disappointment, but look how shiny they polish your boots”.

    … What force or guile could not subdue,
    Through many warlike ages,
    Is wrought now by a coward few,
    For hireling ("Tractor" - Ed)’s wages.
    The English steel we could disdain,
    Secure in valour’s station.
    But English gold has been our bane
    Such a parcel o’ rogues in a nation.

    …O would ere I had seen the day,
    That treason thus could sell us.
    My auld grey heid had lien in clay,
    Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace.
    But pith find power till my last hour
    I’ll mak this declaration.
    We’re bought and sold for English gold
    Such a parcel o’ rogues in a nation.

    Robert Burns.

  130. Dan

    @ robertkknight

    Aye, but the renewable power generation* in Scotland’s geographic area surely won’t run out… Or I guess it might become the wrong type of wind…
    *which is to be developed to 10 times our current output once the ScotWind blocks coming online).
    So ten times more than we currently produce which is already enough for us to regularly export significantly more than we use ourselves.

    It’s fucking tragic that so many of our politicians aren’t making more out of this energy exploitation situation. Businesses trying to recover from all the covid shite now being hammered for energy costs.
    Try 3 quid a day standing charge and £1.22 a unit! That’s criminal. It’s supposedly the energy price which is high so how can they get away with hiking daily standing charge to 6 times what it was when other businesses are still paying 50p daily standing charge.
    Has the administrative daily standing charge costs somehow been infected with the same contagion as energy prices. It’s just total taking the piss exploitation.

    Plus I hear is some local authority areas business rate relief is being reduced so already struggling businesses whose premises are over a rateable value threshold will have thousands to pay out and put them under even more financial pressure to keep their doors open.

    @ Gordon Gekko. Posted again on The Crumple Zone if you want to check it out. 😉

  131. Gregory Beekman

    Dear Mia

    You miss my point.


    What did you expect Sturgeon to do, announce indyref2 was going to be held before Christmas?

  132. Doug

    Owen Mullions/Daisy Walker
    Bunker video.


    Particularly liked the bit aboot fat peter and Sturgeon gettin oot o Dodge.

  133. Gregory Beekman

    Here’s another way of looking at it.

    Say Alex Salmond hadn’t resigned but remained in power after losing the indyref. What could he have done to get us independence?

    I say, nothing.

    We lost, and there was no way of quickly overcoming that loss.

  134. Dan

    @ Gregory Beekman

    Eh, hold the Unionists to actually deliver the vow. Not capitulated on the EU vote. Not focused on gender pish, launch two ferries, not trashed the SNP by removing all the party’s democratic structure, which kinda fucked the YES movement too…

  135. Mia

    “You miss my point.

    I am sorry, but with polls on the 30 October 2014 putting yes at 49% and No at 45% I am not sure we can consider your “we lost the referendum” as a credible excuse for this political fraud to squander everything.

    This is particularly the case when the grievances (which are actually changes of circumstances) in the form of the default of the delivering of the vow in full (putting a huge question mark on the result as potentially fraudulent because the vote was cast under deceptive promises), and the upcoming brexit vote.

    This woman should have demanded a re-run of the referendum once it was known there was a huge gap between what we were promised and what we received, particularly when the HoC voted down Full Fiscal Autonomy for Scotland, trashing the promises of “home rule” or quasi-federalism.

    She DID NOT need to remove the wheels of the SNP either. She neutered the SNP because she wanted to. The SNP was projected to take the majority of the seats ANYWAY and ON THE ASSUMPTION a vote for the SNP was a vote for independence.

    Looking retrospectively, it seems she did that deliberately to thwart independence, to constrain and demoralise the yes movement and to remove the best weapon the yes movement had to capitalise on brexit.

    This was full blown betrayal and, as a yes voter who had voted for the SNP to deliver independence until I could not bear the embarrassment and disgust any longer after hearing her capitulation speech in January 2020, I will always consider her responsible for thwarting independence at a time when she could have delivered it in months.

    “What did you expect Sturgeon to do”
    To act as a real pro-independence leader instead of acting as another useful idiot willing to crawl through the union sewers and do the dirty work on behalf of the British establishment.

    Considering her predecesor handed this political fraud every opportunity and every tool she could have ever needed to deliver independence within months, my expectation was realistic and achievable. What failed is that instead of a real pro-independence leader, she turned out to be a closetted unionist following an anti-independence script.

  136. Ottomanboi

    It is peculiar irony in view of the attitudes of certain Scots that the papacy was one of Scotlands most loyal friends….along with the French.
    Knowing who your friends are is as important as knowing the true nature of your enemy.
    England is a past master in the art of making enemies.
    Scotland DO please note.

    Irony note. Rishi Sunak is the descendent of the three million «indentured labourers» sent to work in east Africa to toil for the Brits, the locals not being trusted.

  137. Astonished

    Dan @4.48pm

    Exactly this. This is what she should have done.

    Like a mug I thought she had a secret plan – Right up until 31.1.20.

    I loathe Sturgeon and her enablers.

  138. Livionian

    Yousaf now saying that he would consider using a snap Hollyrood vote to secure independence.

    Surely nobody is stupid enough to fall for this desperate stuff…

  139. George Ferguson

    @Mia 3:51pm
    Your post allayed my fears of a rewrite of SNP history. I concur with your memory of early 2015. Sturgeon can get a job anywhere in the World and I would say your welcome. Some of us foresaw this outcome then. In terms of the SNP membership I thought 50000 some time ago. Now 54k of dubious origin. Some of us declared GRR was existential for the SNP and Greens. You cannot manage the narrative forever.

  140. Mia

    “I say nothing”

    And I say you are wrong. If there was nothing he could do to deliver independence, they would not have rushed through an unlawful complaints procedure hoping to have him chucked out of the SNP. And when they failed miserably on their dirty task, a complaints procedure based on fabricated charges.

    “We lost, and there was no way of quickly overcoming that loss”
    When polls on the 30th October were putting yes on 49% and no on 45% I do not believe you can credibly say “we lost” and even less credibly to claim there was “no way of quickly overcoming that loss”. It took Mr Salmond less than two months to “overcome that loss”.

  141. wullie

    Who picked Sturgy as the next leaderine of the snp, was there any competition for the leader gig. I would have to call into question the judgement of that person. To have been so blind as to not see just what sturgy was like having worked with her for years and that every other bastard in the party happily waiting to throw him to the dogs.
    FFs sake people think we should now all rush to vote for Alba.

  142. Mia


    Where I wrote “And when they failed miserably on their dirty task, a complaints procedure based on fabricated charges”, I meant to write “And when they failed miserably on their dirty task, a criminal case based on fabricated charges”.

    Apologies for the typo.

  143. bluegrass banjo


    “The SNP should also be open-minded about working with a possible incoming English Labour government and seek further powers for the Scottish Parliament”

    you only have to look at labour ian murray – edinburgh south
    where keir starmer is taking advise

    ZILTCH more powers, maybe less while SNP rule

  144. John Main

    @PhilM 2:48

    Good post.

    In a world of lies, telling the truth is a provocative act. I am glad you recognise that.

    I will try to keep up the good work. 🙂

  145. twathater

    Gregory beekman I think you are confused, you are posting comments on a INDEPENDENCE FOCUSED website, WGD or PayPal Paul site as it is known is elsewhere , if you go there your sycophantic cringing worshipping of the BETRAYER or the INDEPENDENCE FRAUD Sturgeon as she is known will be more acceptable and welcome, on this site we like to attempt to tell the TRUTH

  146. Tommo

    XY and Proud says:
    12 March, 2023 at 7:52 am
    Those ‘ghost votes’ are a worry though. Especially as only the % votes are to be announced!!’

    Indeed. Presumably the projected turnout of 54000 is purported to represent a 70% turnout; however it seems to leave a lot of wiggle room if the party apparatchiks report a ‘high turnout’.

  147. Chic McGregor

    Remember. Whatever shitfest comes out of this, we are the people and the people say ENOUGH!

  148. Breeks

    Gregory Beekman says:
    12 March, 2023 at 4:17 pm

    Here’s another way of looking at it.

    Say Alex Salmond hadn’t resigned but remained in power after losing the indyref. What could he have done to get us independence?

    I say, nothing.

    I say he could have secured a Scottish Backstop to rival the Irish Backstop, whereby the Claim of Right demanded the will of the sovereign Scottish People was respected.

    To overrule the Scottish people was a violation of Scots Law and Constitution, and had that principle been defended, Europe could not have agreed a deal which Scotland held to be unconstitutional and unlawful.

    Had Scotland secured a backstop, then a NI style Protocol meaning Scotland effectively stayed in Europe, there would have been a hard border at Carlisle / Berwick, which would have been unconstitutional under the Treaty of Union.

    The ONLY Constitutional outcome was Brexit to be anulled, but even then, that in effect would mean Scotland had a constitutional veto over Westminster.

    So that left two options… abandon the Treaty of Union, or capitulate like Sturgeon did, and throw away Independence when it was virtually inevitable.

    Salmond would have defended the Claim of Right.

  149. Contrary

    A very good message there – there’s no point in ranking Humza at all. We don’t want him, and the childish vindictive way he handled his childcare fiasco shows he’s not fit for office.

    Ash Raegan has a good grasp of monetary and economic matters – the ones the snp conference voted in favour of and are those of the currency group. From what I saw in her interview with Kevin McKenna anyway (on YouTube)

  150. Gregory Beekman

    Mia and others

    I’m talking about INDEPENDENCE, nothing else.

    Yes, Salmond left a great party with great support but he left it losing indyref.

    If Salmond hadn’t resigned, do you think he’d have called indyref2 for the following year? Do you think a PM would have given him it?

    Sturgeon asked both May and Boris for a S30 and got told where to go. Do you think Salmond would have done better?

    I ask again – just what did anyone expect Sturgeon to do (to secure independence) after coming to power only because we lost indyref?

    PS I know exactly what blog I’m on!!

    PPS Wake up and smell the coffee. No FM could magic a new indyref2 out of their butts so soon after losing the first one!

    If Salmnond hadn’t resigned, how soon after losing indyref1 would he have secured indyref2?

    And I don’t want IRRELEVANCE about how great Salmond is and how crappy and backstabby Sturgeon is – we know all that.

    The point is getting a second indyref – just how would Salmond have gone about that in the first five years after losing indyref1?

  151. Izzie

    I really don’t know what to do. I appreciate that something has to change we don’t seem to be getting anywhere but I have been involved with the SNP since Winnie Ewing won the Hamilton by election I just can’t bring myself to vote to divide the Party.

  152. Garavelli Princip

    John Main writes:

    “Covid was most certainly used as a pretext for fascist oppression of the majority in Scotland, to whom Covid posed little threat”.

    Now that Mr Main has revealed a heretofore unsuspected expertise in Public Health Medicine and Epidemiology, perhaps he would provide details the evidence he uses to support the above claim – which is at odds with most medical orthodoxy – particularly in the first phase original strain in an unvaccinated population – and was not the experience of over 150k dead – and those who risked their own lives and health to look after them.

    By evidence, I mean data from reputable peer-reviewed published studies.

    Big claims require substantial evidence.

    Note: Glib assertion is NOT evidence.

  153. Dan

    @ Gregory Beekman

    From 22nd September 2014

    Another Indyref wasn’t the only possible route though, and how events played out politically and what options and strategies might have arisen are an unknown.

  154. Alan

    If Forbes or Regan win, I am curious as to which offence they will be charged with that gets them suspended/expelled from the snp and investigated by the polis. It might be sexual harassment, although that usually resevred for male opponents of the nec/ceo. More likely, is fraud, perhaps mortgage fraud or maybe tax evasion.

    As for clearing out the snp, with the ceo and nec axis in place I just dont see that happening in the event of a Forbes or Regan victory. The gravyites have just too much to hide and too much to lose to just give up. Also, they wont care if the snp government doesnt function, so long as they can bully whoever does win out of office. That ordinary Scots need good government right now as the economy tanks just doesnt matter to them. All they care about is power and their political careers. Anyone trying to upset that is the enemy and must be destroyed.

  155. Gregory Beekman


    Yes, that’s clear now we’ve had the court case but I don’t think anyone at the end of 2014 was suggesting an election would be the only way to go. Everyone was still saying gold standard = referendum.

    The sad truth is that Westminster have us trapped. Which is why Ash Regan would be best choice as new FM, but I doubt she’ll win.

  156. McDuff

    Absolutely. Me and mine won`t be voting SNP , losing their seats is the only language they will understand. I still cant believe what has happened to this party.

  157. Katie MacDonald

    I saw a recent episode of the game show ‘The Wheel’ the other night and yeah om itsmy guilty pleasure but a phrase springs to mind and that is ,’Go big or go home!’. Thats why we need to vote for Ash! Independence is an emergergency! If you believe it in your gut and have fire in your belly its the way to go! Cmon guys (sorry if saying ‘guys’ is now a hate crime). Lets do this! Ash or bust!

  158. Alibi

    Ash Regan 1, Forbes 2 for me. Fingers crossed Ash gets it.

  159. wull

    How can you ‘go down a gear’ when you are already in reverse?

  160. Al-Stuart

    Plan B

    Stuart, all that you have written in this post about voting is clear, clean and perfect.

    But surely it is safe to have a back-up plan. An alternate hope…

    When the NuSNP Twitler Youth and Uncle Peter Penfold rig the result so that Hopeless-Humza narcissistically gets to be First Minister for 20 months until the next Pretendy Parliament Holyrood election, is this such a bad result?

    Please game-out the result of this…

    Humza is so utterly inept, with three ministries that he wrecked to his toxic name, and now heading a 0.5% tran-captured Scottish Executive, that when the TRUTH comes out, it took Pickle_Bee Beth the Rapist and her 7-inch surprise in her knickers, plus a skill in being a pro5titute to get the NuSNP to where it is (in the electoral gutter), what will happen next?

    Can good, decent people of Scotland see themselves voting for this sack of political troughers, perverts and dregs?

    Or just as bad, can folk bring themselves to voting for Anas Sarawar, or dodgy Douglas Ross and his 3 jobs?


    I would wager that there are enough decent folk left to move their homeless Indy vote across to ALBA.

    This my friends, has to be Plan B?

    Just imagine the best Statesman that Scotland has ever had…. ALEX SALMOND returning as FIRST MINISTER of Scotland.

    Surely that is a reasonable Plan-B?

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