Wings Over Scotland

Simple logic Stu.

Let’s just hope enough of the sane SNP members read this and take it on board.

Otherwise, all is lost.

What a shower of bastards , they have sat on their fat comfy arses for 9 years spouting about convincing people over to indy and produced fuck all to help activists or ordinary indy supporters to do so

ALL you ever get from these parasitic arsewipes is

“That WE have to convince others and encourage people to see the benefits of indy”

Meanwhile oxygen wastes like wet pishfart BRAGGING about being in WM for 22 years NOT REALISING that it is showing him and his vile party up for the incompetent troughers that they are, IF they were COMPETENT they wouldn’t be in WM at all NOW

And now we have this other betrayer baldy macpherson trotting out the same pish of ” WE have to take more people along with us WE have to convince more and more”

WE that is the royal WE whilst baldy and the rest of the DEPLORABLES rake in their huge salaries and pensions, claim for ALL their heating expenses, claim for all their travel expenses, languish in subsidised WM restaurants and bars whilst our pensioners and families have to make a choice on heating OR eating

Sturgeon famously said ” WE have time on our side ” YES her and her scum deplorables want time on their side to MILK every penny from the SCOTLAND GRAVY BUS

This snp are WORSE than LIEBOUR OR TORIES at least with Labour and Tories you know what to expect

54,000 members times £12 per year equals £648,000. That’s remarkably close to the size of the missing indy fighting fund.

When I gave the membership figue of 81k on here which ended up in the press, this was mocked and denied. This was a live figure I was given at the time and I have checked and the 78k figure is true now.

HQ, Sturgeon, the gravy train mob and the cabinet are all in total panic mode.They miscalculated the mood of the membership. They thought that putting up Humza then about being progressive, and bombarding social media with memes would cut it. As you can see with the GRR the leadership has been completly out of step with the membership and voters. Including and the members of WhatsApp groups, MSPs and their staff, the main campaign group, HQ and Gov comms staff, there is an estimated 200 people working on Humza’s campaign. They are currently pumping out 12-15 press releases a day.Journalists are now seeing it for what is is and most are now getting deleted from their inboxes.

He had anticipated Forbes going forward and the short campaign of shock and awe in conjunction with the Record was designed for only two candidates and she was expected to knock her out early and then get coronated. However they did not anticipate Regan entering and even when they did she was dismissed. The Humza campaign did not feel the need to have a strong independence strategy as Forbes did not have one much different either. However Regan came in with a strategy which was apparently written by her and her husband in one morning which now has a higher approval rating amongst SNP voters than any independence strategy ever put forward. In four hours they achieved what Sturgeon and all her team could not do in nearly nine years. Humza’s team has struggled to counter it and support is now growing quickly for her plan and they are now it a total panic. They can’t attack Regan like they did with Forbes as this will drive 2nd votes away from him to Forbes.

My sources in HQ and at the parliament both say that based on the current modelling puts Forbes on 38, Humza on 36 and Regan on 26 in the first round. Votes will not transfer from Regan to Humza as Stuart says, but to Forbes taking her a cross the finishing line. They are now realising that the game is up as there is no way that Humza can win this.So late in the game his team is trying everything and they are now trying to counter Regan’s Indy strategy with only on day to go before voting commences. They were warned by a senior minister not to underestimate Forbes and Regan and told that their continuity strategy was high risk but they chose to ignore it.

Neil Gray and Maree Todd are his two closest allies now and they are in a complete mess as they bet the house on him winning. Parliament staff say that she is not in good mental health, she has a disheveled appearance and there are many concerns about her drinking. She had previously been close friends with the Forbes and Regan but had been promised a cabinet job and she has gone and turned against her old friends launching vicious attacks and briefing against them. She is now regarded in her constituency as being toxic and activists are hoping she stands down at the next election as already there is a plot to replace her if she decides to continue. Gray is also in a similar position with many unhappy about his behaviour.

The fear and panic is more than palpable now as a Forbes/Regan government will likely clear out all of Sturgeons staff, most of the cabinet a few ministers. Shit is getting real and the game really is up.

The irony is, if Humza had credible leadership potential, the best way he could express it is to do the right thing by the SNP and Scottish Independence and step away from the contest, high centering the Trans Taliban infiltrators, and leaving the membership a straight binary choice between an Independentist and a crowd pleaser, who can probably work together as a team FM and Deputy irrespective of who actually wins.

That Humza hasn’t a single molecule of leadership potential throughout his entire body will be most crudely exposed by him actually winning and becoming leader.

I encourage you to think about it Humza.

What really irks me about some of these pathetic overpaid MSPs and cabinet ministers who want to wait another ten years, is this, they simply cannot see any urgency for independence. They are not struggling to get by, they are not at the mercy of hideous policies imposed by England. No, they are doing quite alright, actually, thanks very much, so they come out with pish like thon waste of space SNP minister in the papers.

Aye let’s wait another ten freaking years for independence, because the SNP cabinet minister above, is doing A OK at present. No rush, no urgency whatsoever.

THAT is exactly what Kate or Humza Useless will give you, dither, dither, dither, delay, delay, delay, excuse, excuse, excuse. Just like Sturgeon has for eight years.

Only Ash Regan has the fight for independence, only Ash Regan has a plan for independence (see previous article), and only Ash Regan understands the urgency of it all.

Ash Regan as SNP leader will be a breath of fresh air for both the SNP and Scotland.

And one must ask if we are not ready for Independence yet wtf have the SNP been doing since 2007? Salmond reckoned we were in 2011 and made moves such as uniting Polis Scotland. What has happened to make us fit for Independence since September 18 2014?

Absolutely nothing. Nothing which wasn’t in process under Salmond like the Queensferry Crossing. So this admission by Macpherson is absolutely damning for a supposedly Independence Party.

THIS is why the SNP needs to be gotten rid of. They are quite literally a waste of space.

Thank you Mr MacPherson for your candour. More SNP members and voters switch their allegiance to Alba.

Those ‘ghost votes’ are a worry though. Especially as only the % votes are to be announced!!

Ben MacPherson and his fellow fakes profess Scotland to be decades away from being ready for independence. If he’s so determined to turn back the clock on Scotland then why doesn’t he go the whole way and start wearing a starched collar?

If Humza wins, then Ben & Co will be singing ‘tonight we’re gonna party like it’s 1899’.

The “ghost votes” are people who have left in the past year. They are still on the books but don’t get to vote unless they rejoin (too late now).

Doesn’t this sound familiar? How to spot fascism, and not just at the BBC … link to fb.watch

The idea that only around 70% of 78,000 members will vote, giving a total of 54,000 votes, makes a kind of sense, I suppose.
But in what is an existential moment for the SNP, why would you be a member and NOT vote? Don’t like any of the candidates? Hold your nose and vote for your least worst choices as 1 and 2, or you risk getting your worst option by default.

Listened to Prism the other Sunday and to ex MSP Lloyd Quinnan who explained his constituency branches had lost in the last couple of years around 25% 0f the supposed membership.

What however he then said was so absolutely reflective of my own constituency was that out of a remaining so called membership of around 1,500 the branch meetings when called only managed to attract about four physical attendees with around half a dozen zoom attendees. That’s four physical folk out of 1,500 or 0.26 of a percent.

My constituency is similar. Not that I and many others I know are members now, meetings here struggle to get any more than three or four attendees.

And of course with the recent Conference only attracting, aside of payroll and media a derisory five hundred or so members the reality is that the SNP is now a ghost party.

And as we know in ghost parties ghosts vote. And that is why in today’s SNP member numbers, members details, are a closely guarded secret known only to Peter Murrell and a few other H people.

A party in fact of ghost £12.00 a year members and an utter sham.

Voting opens today? Not what I wanted on my birthday ? Hopefully the SNP rank-and-file do something to upset the payroll vote by voting in line with their principles.

As for MacPherson, he’s my MSP and I think he’s bloody useless. It’s nice for him that he’s been given some kind of ministerial responsibility since he was elected, but he clearly doesn’t realise that the lack of preparedness for independence now lies squarely on his shoulders since he’s been part of the government for most of the time since 2016. Perhaps he wants to be voted out so he can return to lawyering.

So technically the only way Humza can win is by cooking the books. Because we know that Forbes and Ash will likely share their 1st and second preferences.

I haven’t met anyone in my wide circle of friends and work colleagues who like Humza. The problem is that it’s only SNP members
Who decide.

As the SNP aren’t promoting an immediate vote on independence will they commit to not mentioning either Independence or a Referendum in any forthcoming election manifesto, including for the next Westminster and Holyrood elections. I think not this is how they get elected.

I would just love a journalist to ask “as your not going to hold a Independence vote then I take it as the party for Independence you won’t be mentioning Independence in your manifestos”.

If the SNP has lost 50,000 members then why has kate and ash been told the SNP had 100,000 members recently, sounds a bit dodgy.

Troughers! The lot of ’em. Vote them out…

No Indy? No SNP!

50,000 unaccounted, untraceable votes is pretty handy if someone in control of proceedings wanted to fix the outcome. Just saying. The Scottish Ghost Party.

Looks like we’ve started talking to ourselves again.
Most here are committed to Independence under ANY circumstances even contemplating an Independent Scotland under a Sturgeon Govt!
Complete madness, and something we avoided by the skin of our teeth and a bit of help from the “hated” Tories.
Mr Macpherson seems to mean , not that we at Wings are not ready, but the Scottish electorate are not ready and without a majority in the country nothing can be achieved.
He is correct, the Independence movement in the country have just had the shit scared out of them by finally coming to the conclusion….which I and others have been saying for years, that Holyrood and the SNP in particular are utterly corrupt.

People don’t like being taken for fools, even if they are fools and a rebuilding of trust in the country will take years. Perhaps too many years as the voting demographic changes. Especially so if the wet Tories drag us …and the sheep, back into the EU where immigration will skyrocket and Scottish Nationalism will become a pipe dream.

According to Wiki Macpherson quit the Labour party for reasons quite other than those of wanting independence for his country.
No surprise then.
His real interests lie here.

«Ben Macpherson MSP (SNP, Edinburgh Northern & Leith), added: “I think it’s important that we’ve established this group to bring people of all sexualities and genders together – to tackle issues affecting the LGBTI+ community and advance change where it’s still needed. Scotland is considered one of the most progressive countries in Europe and the world; however, there is still much work to do to tackle the prejudices and inequalities that too many people still face, simply because of their sexuality or gender identity. I look forward to working with everyone in the group to build on the progress made in recent years to create a Scotland that is fully equal and inclusive»

Seemingly EQUALITY FOR HIS NATION AMONG THE NATIONS is not important.

NAUSEATING!

May his middling political careerism be soon at an end.

If Ash Regan doesn’t win thats me cancelling my membership after almost 50 years. Looks like Alba will become the only credible route to Independence.

I feel like it’s all or bust. Humza or regan.
If it’s humza, hopefully that just finishes the party off and that’s that. Forbes seems like a long slow decline, unless she is going to roll back on her campaign pledges of course.

Reckon the ghost votes might win the day – it wos the ‘blue lady’ (sorry rainbow lady) wot won it.

For the last 5 years, I’ve quietly watched the Scottish political landscape feeling a sense of growing dread that somehow, there had been a shift; not from Unionist parties, but from the SNP themselves.

When the idea of the GRR Bill was being promoted, I found myself in bickering matches as to not only the policies now being mooted, but the direction of the independence movement itself. What began to transpire about 3 to 4 years ago was that instead of people with a real desire for independence being made MPs or MSPs, there seemed to be shift in finding people to represent social group minorities. It seemed that to win these minorities to the SNP, policies were adapted to suit that groups cause. In doing so, it allowed what one could deem ‘cuckoos’ into the nest. And for some that I have debated with, their agenda was more important than that of independence. It was at this point about 3 years ago I quit the SNP. Why? Because if it came to another GE or Holyrood election, just exactly what I was meant to say to folk when chapping on doors?
‘Yeah, we’re still gunning for independence, but apologies, I have no idea where we stand on the EU, EFTA, currency, defence, borders, trade, England, embassies, Faslane, nukes, etc …but hey, here’s what I can tell you about the GRR Bill!’ BANG …door slammed in my face. That was what I envisioned …and well, stuff that.

I’m all for equality …but these changes led me to believe that while we were being told that this would bring greater inclusion and equality and thus drive independence, the reality was that we were heading nowhere.

With chance after chance in bringing the British State to crisis point, the SNP allowed Brexit to pass without a whimper; they allowed Johnson to wreck chaos on the UK without a whimper; they allowed us to be be dragged out of the EU without a whimper; the allowed the cost-of-living crisis to pass without a whimper; they allowed the Supreme Court to tell Scots that we are not sovereign without a whimper; But!!!! They are willing to fight for the GRR Bill! Seriously …WTF?!

Instead, the only fighting I’ve seen with any passion from the SNP is over the GRR Bill. And when that backfired thanks to Isla Bryson, Nicola Sturgeon then decides to jack it in because ‘she’s tired’. Everything that is happening right now has been badly mis-managed by the SNP. Why did Nicola Sturgeon not prepare a successor instead if this in-house bitter fighting amongst 3 candidates that should not really have thrown their hat into the ring? Why did she not let the SNP hierarchy know that she was thinking of leaving and thus prepare a smooth transition with a reliable candidate? What is the real story of the missing monies? Why has no-one condemned her for leaving at this moment when surely, she should be getting brought to task for the mess that she has overseen. It’s been an absolute disaster these last 5 years and I lay the blame squarely at the FM’s door.

TBH, I’ve no idea where the SNP or the overall movement is going. Does it actually need the SNP to take a severe kicking at the next elections to bring them back to reality? They have definitely become the Labour of old where we have careerists rather than political warriors and they believe the electorate will always vote for them even if stick a chimpanzee in as FM and promise us a world of opportunities which will be delivered oh so soon (all that carrot dangling).

I’m not surprised that just under half of the membership have walked. And if I were the SNP hierarchy, I would be deeply worried. That means half of YOUR support don’t believe in you anymore. Why have they ignored that? Surely klaxons must have went off when the numbers tumbled under 100,000? What should have been a golden age for the SNP will be ridiculed in years to come due to the number of glorious chances that were squandered in bringing the UK state to the table.

At the same time, it also comes down to the new Alba party. If they are serious about being a political force in Scotland then they need to get their act together also. There are 50,000 potential supporters looking at them with one eye but instead they are nowhere near making the impact on the public conscience that they believe they are. There should be a real propaganda campaign – especially at this moment when the SNP are fighting like rats in a sack and thus piling on the pressure for the SNP to begin taking the idea of independence seriously again.

As Stuart says, this next year or so will define the independence movement. If the SNP vote Humza (God help us!!) then we’ll get Nicola Beta Version oh-point-2 and that means we descend the road to nowhere. If it’s Ash or Kate, then there is a faint chance that they may realise the mistakes of the past and therefore, get a national convention started to re-invigorate the movement. I’m not overly convinced about either of them but it will down to them if they win – I hope they have the confidence and the cojones to take on the existing hierarchy. But Alba also need to push – that too might re-awaken public political debate.

Because if they don’t, then Starmer will take a handful of seats in Scotland despite Scotland continuing to vote nationalist …and then he will have the Labour Party ignore us. And they will continue to ignore us until they eventually fall at some future General Election. and when that happens, we get the Tories again. In one word, we are staring at a future of our-own personal made hell – oblivion.

There are a couple of questions I find myself continually asking …how did it come to this …and why did no-one in the SNP hierarchy question the different political direction being taken post-2015?

As always, voter “turn-out” will be key. There are many amongst the membership who are only peripherally aware of the contest, the candidates and the politics at-play. Argh! God help us all.

“while the SNP have given Mi-Voice 78,000 names, they only expect the oddly specific number of 54,000 to vote”.

Maybe that’s the % of members who voted on the Bute House Agreement, and they are using the same percentage here.

Which shows that Humza lied at the hustings when he said 95% of members voted for it. Perhaps he should have said that 95% of those who voted said yes. A very different thing. Words matter.

Those who say we are not ready have forgotten why Independence is urgent.
We are being “allocated” £4 Billion a year for interest on money borrowed fot CrossRail, HS2 etc.
We are being “allocated £4 Billion a year on Defence and the £200 Billion Trident replacement is coming down the track.
We are “credited” with 9.2% of North Sea income on a population basis when 95% lies in Scottish Waters.
The Renewable Energy of Scotland is giving England cheap energy and the Storage batteries are being placed in England. The feeder cables to Europe have landfalls in England.

The SNP do not raise these issues. They do not challenge GERs. They do not shout about WMD in the Central Belt of Scotland. This includes 200 Nuclear Warheads in storage and being transported through our streets.

Perhaps if the SNP had put the focus on Independence instead of Murrell Enterprises and Social Engineering support for Independence would be over 60%.

If we are not ready then only one Party is to blame and if we keep following their guide then it follows we will never be ready.

If I employ a builder, and he fails to deliver my house on time, I don’t want excuses about being busy with another project or that he needed to employee more family members rather than competent people.
Sturgeon took votes for Independence and used those Holyrood seats to push through HER personal agenda.

I wish people would think more about the future generations of Scots and less about BetterTogether scare stories.

It must be Regan if there’s to be independence, I implore those with the vote to vote Regan for the good of the entire country.

Rev wrote:

“Humza Yousaf, meanwhile, is offering more of the same failure that has characterised the last eight wasted years, both in terms of domestic governance and indy strategy.”

And:

“Yousaf is the anointed choice of the outgoing SNP hierarchy,”

He’s also the choice of the SNP’s Westminster lickspittle, Stephan Flynn. Even after Yousaf’s dire car-crash television performances. That tells us all we need to know. We’re fucked!

Ash is the only one with a worthwhile plan and the only one to show she has a backbone. But Ash will get nowhere near the levers of control. Sturgeon & Murrell have destroyed the SNP and every golden opportunity we’ve had to take back our right of self-determination. Sturgeon & Murrell must *NEVER* be allowed to forget that. EVER!

There will be no more voting in Westminster elections from me. I’m on a permanent boycott of Westminster elections. And unless we send these self-serving turncoats a real hard message like that, we’re just going to get more of the same. I’ve had enough of all this pissing against the wind.

Then add to that the utter fuckwits claiming to be indy supporters who repeatedly reward the Unionist media for their part in destroying our 2014 indy campaign by promoting direct links to their articles. And deliberately conning new WOS readers to part with their details to data-harvesting companies. Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if most of them doing this are still paid-up members of Sturgeon’s Nonce Party.

To all the real indy supporters out there in Wingsland, stay safe and all the very best for the future. Time out for me. Going to spend some time on something different for a change until there is a decent turning of the tide. Murrell & Sturgeon need to be held responsible for all of this. Take care, folks!

A history less for the SNP.

1918 Ireland

The main Party vanished overnight. Decay, decay,decay

Sinn Féin won 73 of Ireland’s 105 seats in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland parliament at the general election in December 1918, twenty-five of them uncontested. The IPP, despite having been the largest party in Ireland for forty years, had not fought a general election since 1910; in many parts of Ireland its organisation had decayed and was no longer capable of mounting an electoral challenge. Many other seats were uncontested owing to Sinn Féin’s evident mass support, with other parties deciding that there was no point in challenging Sinn Féin given that it was certain to win.

I hope your message has more traction than when you tried to explain AMS to SNP supporters, otherwise we’re doomed

@akenaton says:12 March, 2023 at 9:17 am

the Scottish electorate are not ready and without a majority in the country nothing can be achieved

I think you make the common error of assuming that in a multi-variable, real-world scenario, that when one variable changes, the other variables remain constant.

Regan will be a younger, fresher, dynamic change. It will help her that she doesn’t have a nasal, whiney voice like a nail scraping on slate, and a face like a skelped arse.

As the saying goes, “Strong beliefs win strong men, and then make them stronger”. I think that as it is 2023, we can assume the same saying holds true for women.

The fact that Regan has a plan, the usual “honeymoon period” politicians get, and Regan’s strongly held beliefs, will themselves grow Indy support.

Obvs I don’t know if support will grow enough. I do believe, however, that the window of opportunity within which it will ever be possible to get a democratic vote in favour of Scottish Indy is time limited. That is because of the obvious demographic changes that are occurring, in many cases with the active support of Scotland’s voters. Including those Scots we all see on here, prioritising their precious progressive values above the pragmatic policies needed to win Indy.

Regan is the last chance for Indy. There is no other option. Her plan is the only plan there is.

It’s shit or bust.

Could be employed a post as Diversity Minister (as he is the progressive candidate) to go round the mosques with the LGBTQI+ agenda and garner their support for the cause.

Big Jock wrote
I can see Humza being left out of Forbes cabinet entirely.

“They should be making hay out of this car crash”

And I am sure they will, in due course, once the car crash has taken place. Don’t interrupt your opponent when they are making a mistake, they say.

Voters, which are the real SNP asset and prize here, have to see this car crash unfold in all its might to understand what is really going on and what Sturgeon and co have been up to with their pro-independence votes.

Of three candidates to leader of “the” allegedly independence party, only one, let’s say that loud, only one, is presenting a viable plan (and has declared an intention) to pursue independence. Let that sink in. If I was a real pro-independence member in the SNP I would be worse than horrified and feel cheated by this. But not only members will feel this way. Voters too.

Once this leadership context is over, the SNP will emerge either reinstated as a party of independence or rebranded as another devolutionist party to add to the political arms of the British state in Scotland. And let’s face, the odds sit with the latter.

Personally, I do not think Ash will win for two reasons:

1. The powers that be will rig the election if they must before letting her win. This is because she would rebuild in weeks what the political fraud Sturgeon needed 8 years to dismantle:

a. she would re-galvanise the yes movement and restore hope, which is what the British state apparatchicks are trying to burn down to ashes

b. she will put the wheels back on the SNP as a vehicle for independence, so the threat of independence becomes more real than it has ever been in almost 9 years. This is precisely what the state has been trying to stop with the SNP hijacking.

It is also very likely, if what she said in the interviews is something to go by, that Ms Regan will clean up the sewers of corruption within the party. This will mean the end of many careers and therefore there are huge vested interests inside and outside the party putting a lot of pressure to ensure Ms Regan does not win.

2. Personally, I think the number of devolutionists/careerist and opportunists using the SNP as a trojan horse to pursue their own pet-causes might have already balanced out, if not surpassed the numbers of real pro-independence members.

In a previous thread, Mr Murray mentions that the 50,000 figure newspapers give for the number of members who have left the SNP is, in his opinion, an overestimation. Mr Murray indicates it is in fact the net figure in the direction of exit, giving a much bigger figure of around 70,000 members as those who might have actually exited the party.

Mr Murray mentions that around 20,000 people more interested in other causes rather than independence, might have joined the party instead.

If I did not misread the external article linked in the Rev’s article above, HQ have told the company running the vote that the expectation is of just 54,000 votes. Given the importance of this leadership contest, you would expect that every active member of the party would be very keen in casting their votes so, as the Rev points out above, this suggests over 20,000 “voters” might not be such, but rather “ghost” voters.

If 20,000 of those 54,000 votes are going to be cast by the new recruits with other pet causes different to independence, that leaves 34,000 potential real pro-indy supporters. But we cannot forget the massive influx of careerists and devolutionists from labour since 2015 which will fall under those 34,000

Judging by the results of the latest Scotgoes pop poll where the overwhelming majority of the membership is predicted to vote for the flavour of devolution either Yousaf or Forbes offer, the number of real pro-independence supporters left among the SNP membership may in fact be much lower.

What this leadership contest is going to do is to flush out of the SNP those real pro-independence supporters who are still there. It is the last stage of the party take-over.

Overall, what this is telling us is the SNP has been successfully hollowed out in the space of 8 years. The only thing left of it, is the brand and its main asset: the SNP voters. The brand is all what you need to fool enough voters to keep the gravy train going while deliberately thwarting independence at the same time.

For the most politically motivated, it is (and has been) obvious for some time the SNP is just a shell of its former self. But most people go on with their lives showing very little interest in politics.

This contest will make things more clear, not just for the membership, but more importantly for the voters at large. Because that is what we need: awareness from the bulk of SNP voters that the SNP as a party of independence ceased to exist in 2014 and what is now called SNP is just another devolutionist version of labour using the carrot of independence to win seats.

So why wasting your ammunition before the real battle starts? The real battle starts after this leadership contest ends, when a self-confessed devolutionist leader, with no intention whatsoever to pursue independence, is put in control of the party. That is the evidence which will cause outrage among real pro-indy supporters and force a change in voting intention.

Your political ammunition will be most effective when the bull’s eye sitting on the evidence is within the voters’ visual field.

Be patient.

Yes Forbes is likely to fold under the pressure of actively supporting policies she doesn’t really believe in. At base honest but weak.

A Forbes leadership would be a weak leadership and would suit the British State nicely as would a Yousaf leadership – he could safely be allowed to play himself for a couple of years until a unionist coalition can be cobbled together – who knows maybe including the Greens who suddenly discover they’re internationalists and not concerned with petty nationalisms yada yada.

Yes Ash Regan is the only one worrying them, if she wins she will not have an easy life that’s for sure.

@Effijy says:12 March, 2023 at 10:16 am

we see countries like Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, Hungary, Kazakhstan etc etc who were ruled over by Russia for Russia’s benefit grow and flourish

Plenty of regulars on here who wish to see these countries back under armed occupation, elimination of dissidents by extreme measures, enslavement and colonialist exploitation.

To be scrupulously fair, I don’t recall you being one of the rabid supporters of aggressive, imperialist, Russti expansion.

But I don’t recall you ever calling out the worst offenders either.

Good to see you now off the fence.

Maybes you will be able to learn to see the difference between a managed, rules-based, immigration policy and an industrialised extermination policy as your next educational objective.

Geoff. That’s true about Ireland. The issue we have in Scotland is that only 50% of the populace are determined nationalists. In Ireland it was about 80% yes.

The outrage felt in every corner of Ireland isn’t the same as Scotland. We have far too many unionists in the indigenous population. and incomers from England. However if the SNP dies split, and it will under Humza. Then Alba will benefit by at least 20%. Many MPs and MSPs will also defect.

The problem throughout Scottish history remains divide and rule.

Flynn has added his support to Humza. Be interesting to see who will replace him as Westminster leader should one of the other contenders win.

In the Atlantic City of real life Nuckie Johnson (as opposed to fictional Nuckie Thompson of the HBO series) ward bosses kept lists of the dead and folk who’d moved away.
Come Election day, the dead and missing would vote. Bus loads of doppelgängers would go from polling station to polling station at $5 a pop.
The Murrell crime family widnae be oot of place in Boardwalk Empire.

Karen @ 8:23 am

“How to spot fascism”

The root of ‘the scourge’ of colonialism is always fascism (Cesaire). Wherever we see colonialism we see fascism.

Fascism is a ‘regime of oppression for the benefit of a few (and) the entire administrative and political machinery of a colony has no other goal’ (Memmi).

Scots therefore live under colonialism and fascism – which is why we want independence, which is decolonisation.

link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com

I won’t link to it, but The Herald is running on its front page a claim that Sturgeon is being touted for some UN envoy role…which if true would of course require the nod of HMG.

All the jigsaw pieces falling neatly into place…

BIG JOCK
Divide and rule is the old imperialist dictum.
It worked for the Romans until things fell apart internally.
The British copied the method. Until the inevitable internal falling apart.
The cost of WW1 helped Irish nationalism and to a certain extent Indian and Egyptian nationalisms. But not without much struggle.
The American desire to be rid of the ailing British empire and replace it with their own hegemony, after rescuing the British from possible stalemate in the European theatre of war, played a significant part.
All this collapsing of old orders passed sleepy Scotland by. Unionism was so ingrained in the system. Like a conforting drug it is for many the default go to prescription.
The withdrawal symptoms will be unpleasant but necessary for survival.
Scotland, however, must avoid becoming another Ulster.
Divide and rule is now divide and destroy.
The state of the SNP confirms.

North chiel @ 11:05 am

“If either KF or AR win I would fully expect either to appoint the other as deputy leader”

Doubtful, there is an infinite ideological distance between KF and AR.

Judging by KF’s ‘actions’ on Scotwind giveaway, as freeport cheerleader for Cromarty, the non national energy co, national inv bank, non scot currency, pro s.30 blind alleys, etc etc, KF would seem a better fit in the Scottish Tory branch party – i.e. her track record is useless for Scotland or for independence. Her answer to STUC on the great whisky plunder was also enlightening as to where her loyalties lie.

Judge them by their actions not words. Ash is the only MSP who has resigned from the colonial trough and offers the only plan to end it.

@Alf Baird says:12 March, 2023 at 11:48 am

Fascism is a ‘regime of oppression for the benefit of a few …’

Is there therefore any time in recorded history when Scots have not been living under fascism?

Has there ever been a stable polity, anywhere or anytime in world history, when fascism (by that definition) did not apply?

I struggle to think of any examples. Sweden might have been a good one, but that is defo not stable, as their progressive policies are destroying them. Plenty of Wings BTL posters will describe the Swedes as fascists because they have the temerity to defend themselves against external foes.

Plus, of course, the Swedes dared to question the Covid orthodoxy, which meant progressive voices on here and elsewhere took agin them for that.

Covid was most certainly used as a pretext for fascist oppression of the majority in Scotland, to whom Covid posed little threat. A wildly popular policy on here, as I recall NS being cheered to the rafters.

I guess then that a slur (fascist) that can be applied to every society in history is worthless.

I’d be careful Alf. Your “Scotland as Colony” trope has some traction. But extending the concept further by invoking the bogeyman of fascism is setting it up for ridicule.

The importance of what Regan says is this : THIS IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL BTW so pay attention

– she is putting it out there INTO THE PUBLIC MIND, from a “proper politician” (not randos on the internet) that INDEPENDENCE IS A MATTER FOR THE SCOTS ALONE and once we’ve decided we go straight to the UN for INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION (which will be pushing at an open door, believe it)

– there is no middle step, or rather “maze without an exit” chasing our tails forever hoping for “westminster permission”

the point being

ENGLAND HAS NO VETO
ENGLAND HAS NO VETO
ENGLAND HAS NO VETO
… ETC

get it into the thick skulls of the english, but also our own public and political class.

The tools we need have already been crafted for us, an entire machinery at the UN, waiting for us; just use the tools already there.

The English have very thick skulls and cannot conceive – whether it be taxi drivers from Walsall, or oxbridge mandarins at the FCO –

SCOTLAND IS -NOT- ENGLAND
SCOTLAND IS -NOT- ENGLAND
…

it does not compute.

The UK is Britain, right, and Britain is just a name for “Super England”, so it’s just basically, England, and some extra bits. You get this same logical fallacy at all levels – but a UN resolution will knock it out their skulls.

“Once this leadership context is over, the SNP will emerge either reinstated as a party of independence or rebranded as another devolutionist party to add to the political arms of the British state in Scotland. And let’s face, the odds sit with the latter.”

Spot on Mia, its Murrell and GCHQ we’re dealing with here, the former needs his puppet in place (Yousaf) to keep hidden all his and his wife’s dirty little secrets, and the latter is acting at Westminster’s behest, Westminster simply put cannot afford to see Scotland leave the union, the Golden Goose cannot be allowed to fly away.

I have a gut feeling that Regan will win but be cheated out of it, she’ll win because the majority of SNP members realise what’s at stake here, not just the welfare of the entire nation but the party that they love.

John Main @ 12:22 pm

Postcolonial theory tells us what to expect based on the evidence from centuries of colonialism globally.

“fascism…is the dialectic result of states which were semi-colonial during the period of independence” (i.e. decolonization) (Fanon)

Some examples:

“Privileges multiply and corruption triumphs, while morality declines”

“The (national) party, a true instrument of power in the hands of the bourgeoisie, reinforces the (colonial) machine, and ensures that the people (indy movement) are hemmed in and immobilized”

The national party “becomes more and more clearly anti-democratic, an implement of coercion”

“concessions are snapped up by foreigners; scandals are numerous, ministers grow rich.. members of parliament feather their nests”

@Anton Decadent

Aye but its not even the ex unionists gaslighting (or maybe even being serious) about wanting to destroy it

eg Swinney

“We’ve never been closer to independence, thats why I chose to take a step back and, after listening carefully to his cunning plan to continue without one, endorse Humza to carry the can across the finish line..

or words to that effect.

Make you wonder if Alba could get good traction with a policy to replace the woman face dressing up bill with one more directly related to tar and feathering.

Chances of SNP members voting Regan——zero.

Im very much afraid the influence of the apparently saintly but utterly imcompetent Nicola will condemn the SNP to following another false messiah. Her legacy has been to lead a once thriving movement into the empty desert of false hope.

I do not believe the remaing SNP members have the courage to choose another way. They will still believe in their mind it is the party of Sturgeon and will choose accotdingly.

It matters not to them she has jumped ship and betrayed them all. They will vote in her memory and not for the prime function of the party which she and her husband have effectively turned into their own plaything rather than a vehicle to express and serve the will of the people.

I fear it is over for the next decade at least, and I have probably not got the luxury of that timeframe. Sad.

Drop the name calling stick to how do you get Indy

The saddest thing about the comfy slippers and pension crowd we have in Westminster is their lack of imagination and ambition, not just for Scotland but themselves.
Yes their Westminster job would end with independence, but new andd better jobs would be theirs for the asking. We would need at least 50 ambassadors just in the first couple of years. Are they all so allergic to champagne and Ferrero Rocher that they wouldn’t want the job of representing us in Paris, Washington, Rome or wherever? Then there are the international organisations we would need representatives at like the UN, the EU, the WTO and all the others.
With independence we could simply continue their current pay and pensions, and even increase them, but put them to work for us either around the world or in Scotland. But maybe they just can’t imagine anything beyond Westminster. It’s sickening that we’ve elected people with such limited ambitions.

“if you care even a tiny bit about actually achieving independence”

But none of them ever did. They wanted just to be a satrapy of Brussels. Independence my left foot! Independence would mean staying outside the EU (and, if they’d any sense, outside NATO). They wouldn’t have the guts to even try.

What has been happening over at WGD? It appears that I have been banned from posting.

Only a few months ago, the regulars on WGD were excited at the prospect of a de-facto independence vote, now it MUST be avoided at all costs because it is an ‘Alba’ policy.

Why would any independence supporter disagree with the ONLY candidate who has a plan for delivering independence? Why vote for candidates who simply want to continue kicking the Indy project into the long grass? Don’t these individuals want independence?
The YES movement is already fractured after 8 years of doing nothing.

Remember Nicola’s secret plan?
Remember when we had to wait until we knew what the Brexit deal would look like?
Remember when we had to wait until Brexit actually happened?
Remember all those National front covers telling us that the independence starting gun had been fired? (that gun must have ran out of bullets long ago)
Remember Pete Wishart telling us that Westminster was secretly planning for a second referendum?

P.S

The National is more interested in promoting American-style identity politics than pursing independence.

This is why gatekeeping matters

Surely Sturgeon cannot get an EU role – as her country (greater tory englandshire) is out of the EU ?

Kite flying to see if any international organization wants an amoral plotter to destroy them from within ?

Hopefully, the only position opening up for her is as a prison trusty.

Its undeniable, that if Regan loses the SNP loses, for the SNP will no longer been seen, even some who are still members, as a party for Scottish independence.

In that event Alba will replace the SNP oh admittedly it will take wee bit of time to do so but it will, and the SNP will fade away.

So in reality the membership MUST make sure that Regan wins, if Regan wins the party and the country will prosper, if Regan loses, both will suffer, independence will be put back a bit, and the SNP will fade away, its up to the membership to make sure neither happens.

@Robert Hughes 1:50

lying garbage

Find … one that supports R

As always, somebody posts mince. I respond, and then I am the bad one. Ho hum.

You “don’t recall” the posts supporting R? You have “no knowledge” of the screeds of them, for week after week?

Uh oh. There is no way to sugar-coat this, Bob. You have Nicola Sturgeon disease.

Confused said:

“SCOTLAND IS -NOT- ENGLAND”

Indeed it isn’t, and neither on their own is the UK, and neither of their MP representations on their own represent the UK in the UK’s parliament.

Iain Lawson’s blog link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com might have an interesting read on this topic for you tomorrow.

Wise counsel, Stuart, I hope those who have a vote take heed although I’m not sure it will affect the outcome. There is no way that Hazmat Useless would win fairly and squarely. He is clearly unfit to be First Minister as past incidents testify to. That is why the Murrells will have contacted GCHQ and asked for the votes to be fiddled if all else fails: “London we have a problem, there is a grave risk that a bona fide independence candidate could be elected as First Minister”!

The thought of tractors like Macpherson, Yousaf, Stewart McDonald and their gutless ilk demanding we vote for them in order for them to sit on their pension-pillowed backsides whilst they ignore Scotland’s independence and brown-nose with their fellow unionists in Westminster and Holyrood is too disgusting to contemplate.

If Regan doesn’t get chosen as leader I hope she and those in the SNP who think like her [dear god there must be some!] will join Alba.

Vote Alba. Rid Scotland of SNP tractors.

“Surely Sturgeon cannot get an EU role ”

It’s the perfect job for her, She’s been doing Brussels budgets and bidding and privatisations since she was leader.Selling Scotland under everyone’s feet. Surprised she doesn’t get an EU award for it. They wrote the austerity driven growth commission for her.

An SNP that was not piloted by the WorldWideWimpsofWoke might have seized England’s plethora of difficulties as golden opportunities.
Even the «AngloSaxophone» the BBC is in a mess.
The structure is decayed, the warning signs are everywhere.
Impossible to stroll past without seeing.
The end is nigh…but for what?

Only a matter of time until the unionist SNP changes policy to allow its politicians to accept seats in England’s house of lords. Their treachery will be complete.

Does anybody know the law that If Alba won a majority like the SNP. If they could change the parliament to first passed the post voting system?

Get rid of this neoliberal, neo colonial system we now have. Then we could implement some real change that we voted for.

Daisy Walker @ 9:53
“Any minute now there will be a bunker video”
There already is:Behind the scenes at Humza4FM

link to youtube.com

Scotland isn’t ready for independence. We can’t even consistently win 50% in polls, the current Government are not demonstrating that an independent….

That’s like saying a diseased body isn’t ready for it’s recovery. It doesn’t make sense. Why would anybody “choose” to stay ill, and postpone taking their medicine until they were better?

Alex Salmond started his fight with 6 Westminster MP’s when Indy support was polling at 26% or thereabouts.

I’m tired of this infectious defeatism. If these Trans defectives can infiltrate and take over a Party, then why can’t we? Let US put the fear of god in them!

If Westminster can re-write the rules of Holyrood, then why can’t we? Does Westminster have a Claim of Right? (Spoiler alert: No it doesn’t).

If Westminster can blag it’s legitimacy without proving a damned thing, then why aren’t we blagging ours when we bloody well can and still have the signed paperwork to prove it?

Jesus Scotland, wake the fuck up and get off your knees. Scotland could be invaded by a pack of Brownies and Jack Russell Terrier and we’d be tying ourselves in knots trying to figure out an escape plan because the pack leader says we’re not allowed to undo the clovehitch which binds us.

Scotland the Brave eh? That mighty nation which you don’t even need a fkg army to conquer because they’ve been conditioned to obey anybody and everybody passing through the place for the last 300 years.

“Verily, the Scots are well-known as an antidote to the English.” said Pope Martin V in 1421.

Care to speculate on how he’d describe us Scots today? “Verily, what a bunch of spineless non-entities these Scots are. Such a disappointment, but look how shiny they polish your boots”.

… What force or guile could not subdue,
Through many warlike ages,
Is wrought now by a coward few,
For hireling ("Tractor" - Ed)’s wages.
The English steel we could disdain,
Secure in valour’s station.
But English gold has been our bane
Such a parcel o’ rogues in a nation.

…O would ere I had seen the day,
That treason thus could sell us.
My auld grey heid had lien in clay,
Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace.
But pith find power till my last hour
I’ll mak this declaration.
We’re bought and sold for English gold
Such a parcel o’ rogues in a nation.

Robert Burns.

Dear Mia

You miss my point.

WE LOST INDYREF

What did you expect Sturgeon to do, announce indyref2 was going to be held before Christmas?

Here’s another way of looking at it.

Say Alex Salmond hadn’t resigned but remained in power after losing the indyref. What could he have done to get us independence?

I say, nothing.

We lost, and there was no way of quickly overcoming that loss.

“You miss my point.
WE LOST INDYREF”

I am sorry, but with polls on the 30 October 2014 putting yes at 49% and No at 45% I am not sure we can consider your “we lost the referendum” as a credible excuse for this political fraud to squander everything.

This is particularly the case when the grievances (which are actually changes of circumstances) in the form of the default of the delivering of the vow in full (putting a huge question mark on the result as potentially fraudulent because the vote was cast under deceptive promises), and the upcoming brexit vote.

This woman should have demanded a re-run of the referendum once it was known there was a huge gap between what we were promised and what we received, particularly when the HoC voted down Full Fiscal Autonomy for Scotland, trashing the promises of “home rule” or quasi-federalism.

She DID NOT need to remove the wheels of the SNP either. She neutered the SNP because she wanted to. The SNP was projected to take the majority of the seats ANYWAY and ON THE ASSUMPTION a vote for the SNP was a vote for independence.

Looking retrospectively, it seems she did that deliberately to thwart independence, to constrain and demoralise the yes movement and to remove the best weapon the yes movement had to capitalise on brexit.

This was full blown betrayal and, as a yes voter who had voted for the SNP to deliver independence until I could not bear the embarrassment and disgust any longer after hearing her capitulation speech in January 2020, I will always consider her responsible for thwarting independence at a time when she could have delivered it in months.

“What did you expect Sturgeon to do”
To act as a real pro-independence leader instead of acting as another useful idiot willing to crawl through the union sewers and do the dirty work on behalf of the British establishment.

Considering her predecesor handed this political fraud every opportunity and every tool she could have ever needed to deliver independence within months, my expectation was realistic and achievable. What failed is that instead of a real pro-independence leader, she turned out to be a closetted unionist following an anti-independence script.

Dan @4.48pm

Exactly this. This is what she should have done.

Like a mug I thought she had a secret plan – Right up until 31.1.20.

I loathe Sturgeon and her enablers.

@Mia 3:51pm
Your post allayed my fears of a rewrite of SNP history. I concur with your memory of early 2015. Sturgeon can get a job anywhere in the World and I would say your welcome. Some of us foresaw this outcome then. In terms of the SNP membership I thought 50000 some time ago. Now 54k of dubious origin. Some of us declared GRR was existential for the SNP and Greens. You cannot manage the narrative forever.

Who picked Sturgy as the next leaderine of the snp, was there any competition for the leader gig. I would have to call into question the judgement of that person. To have been so blind as to not see just what sturgy was like having worked with her for years and that every other bastard in the party happily waiting to throw him to the dogs.
FFs sake people think we should now all rush to vote for Alba.

ben

“The SNP should also be open-minded about working with a possible incoming English Labour government and seek further powers for the Scottish Parliament”

you only have to look at labour ian murray – edinburgh south
where keir starmer is taking advise

ZILTCH more powers, maybe less while SNP rule

Gregory beekman I think you are confused, you are posting comments on a INDEPENDENCE FOCUSED website, WGD or PayPal Paul site as it is known is elsewhere , if you go there your sycophantic cringing worshipping of the BETRAYER or the INDEPENDENCE FRAUD Sturgeon as she is known will be more acceptable and welcome, on this site we like to attempt to tell the TRUTH

Remember. Whatever shitfest comes out of this, we are the people and the people say ENOUGH!

A very good message there – there’s no point in ranking Humza at all. We don’t want him, and the childish vindictive way he handled his childcare fiasco shows he’s not fit for office.

Ash Raegan has a good grasp of monetary and economic matters – the ones the snp conference voted in favour of and are those of the currency group. From what I saw in her interview with Kevin McKenna anyway (on YouTube)

I really don’t know what to do. I appreciate that something has to change we don’t seem to be getting anywhere but I have been involved with the SNP since Winnie Ewing won the Hamilton by election I just can’t bring myself to vote to divide the Party.

@ Gregory Beekman

From 22nd September 2014

Another Indyref wasn’t the only possible route though, and how events played out politically and what options and strategies might have arisen are an unknown.

link to web.archive.org

Dan

Yes, that’s clear now we’ve had the court case but I don’t think anyone at the end of 2014 was suggesting an election would be the only way to go. Everyone was still saying gold standard = referendum.

The sad truth is that Westminster have us trapped. Which is why Ash Regan would be best choice as new FM, but I doubt she’ll win.

I saw a recent episode of the game show ‘The Wheel’ the other night and yeah om itsmy guilty pleasure but a phrase springs to mind and that is ,’Go big or go home!’. Thats why we need to vote for Ash! Independence is an emergergency! If you believe it in your gut and have fire in your belly its the way to go! Cmon guys (sorry if saying ‘guys’ is now a hate crime). Lets do this! Ash or bust!

How can you ‘go down a gear’ when you are already in reverse?