Under the Ridge
One of the favourite sneering Unionist memes of the independence referendum was the mocking dismissal of claims by some Yes supporters that there might be “secret oil fields” in a location off the west of Shetland known as Clair Ridge.
So amused were the Unionists by this notion that they were still sniggering about it regularly years after the referendum, right up to earlier this month.
Curiously, they’ve gone a little quieter in recent days.
The potential existence of a large untapped field was discussed back in the summer of 2014 in a story by journalist Michael Gray published by Business For Scotland:
The piece specifically identified the supposed area as the small “Lancaster” field owned by Hurricane Energy. Which by a remarkable coincidence is the exact location of what today’s Daily Record describes as the “largest UK find of the century”.
(“Larger” is quite a feat of understatement there. It’s about 40 times larger.)
The amount of oil recoverable from the field is yet to be definitively established. But it’s just one tiny speck in Scotland’s oceans. That might be worth keeping in mind the next time the No camp howls its mockery over any suggestion that Scotland might not be the hopeless economic basket case they desperately need to present it as.
We’ll say no more than that.
I have been regularly asking Blair McDougall for comment about this over the last few weeks. He has been strangely silent on the matter.
Thing that interested me was from my brother who knew of the level of interest up there due to the huge increase in investment in some very heavy engineering ‘near the Shetlands’.
This was 3 years ago. A lot of people knew, but the press just would not cover it.
Odd time to pick now eh?
Ayup, remember it well and a fair few arguments with the more sneery types besides.
Would it be considered very shallow if we said ‘TOLD YOU SO’? 🙂
Wonder who decked Corrie Ken? Did Nicola stick the heid oan him?
But, Jim Murphy said… I recall arguing with Jimbo about the licences granted for west of Shetland as he stood on his crate. When I say “arguing”, he didn’t answer and held on to his microphone for dear life as he said any oil there was irrecoverable. The Yes campaign were telling lies about everything, oil, NHS, etc., etc.
They don’t even blush about it.
Does that not mean we will be even poorer now?
Mike Gapes? I bet he does, as wide as he can for Westminster.
There is much more to this story than BBC reporting…
Remember David Camerons mysterious trip to the Shetland isles in 2014 before the last referendum 😉 At the time I looked deeper at what he was up to – and may have been lucky enough to buy some HUR shares when they were 15p…
The BBC article misses out some key facts from the “story”
1) 1 Billion is likely to be the current 1P (proven reserve figure) when the full report is issued next week. However once further tests are completed it is suggested the Halifax -Lancaster basin could be as big as 3-4 billion barrels.
2) HUR also have a 2nd elephant discovery (Lincoln-Warwick). Between the two of them this could be the largest UK discovery ever (even bigger than Brent!). Interestingly the Norwegians also discovered their larger ever field just 5-10 years ago as well (Jan Svendrup).
3) These are fractured basement reservoirs. Previously these weren’t exploited in the north sea as traditional sandstone was easier to exploit. However they have been drilled all over the globe from Vietnam to China . Dr Trice believes that if these basement fields are successful the entire Rona ridge (which runs from Shetland -> Ireland) could contain oil. For this very reason HUR, who are basement oil specialists, were awarded special out of round license application for this drill 6 months ago. Interestingly the rest of the blocks were sold off last week to Shell / BP / CONNOC.
Hurricane are a tiny company. Just 8 or 10 people – their founder (Dr Trice) is world leading specialist in “basement oil”. I imagine his motivation is to prove this type of reservoir can work in UK waters (as the majors had previously been skeptical). HUR secured equity funding in June which allowed them to rent state of art rig and drill 5 wells WoS over winter-time : however I think time scale prevented full appraisal. The only question that seems to remain now is exactly how big…
Perfect timing.
As we all know Indy Scotland will, legally, have no economic deficit. The matter will be for negotiation. The new discoveries are a tremendous asset over decades. The UK government can’t start to drain it away from us for some years by which time we can be away from them.
Prepare for the howling rage !
Stu, I must point out that the presence of possibly huge reserves West of Shetland in what is called the Atlantic Margin were first brought to everyone’s attention by Bill “Big Mac” McLaughlin back in 2012/13.
Just to remind everyone that this potential extends from Greenland, West of Scotland and Ireland right down to West Africa. As far as Scotland is concerned it also includes confirmed deposits off Arran and potential deposits in the Solway and other estuaries as well.
Maybe people will start listening to Big Mac as he’s getting tired of banging his drum.
Auld Rock
And don’t forget the Clyde I’ll repeat what I said years ago, I worked with a guy who was an engineer on the seismic ships off Arran, he told me that the seismic data pointed to a substantial potential for oil and gas in the clyde South of Arran and maybe In some other areas.
We are being denied the benefits this would bring to the local community and Scotland in general due to the UK’s obsession of illegal weapons of mass destruction, let’s trade bombs for barrels.
Well the UK has the same negative wage growth as Greece whilst every other European nation is showing positive wage growth.
This story is the whole crux of the matter. We know for a fact that in terms of energy and fossil fuel production (gas and oil) that Scotland has an abundance of riches. The West Coast has not supposedly been even looked at as yet.
We must be the only nation in the world who have good fishing grounds, agriculture and livestock in abundance added to tourist friendly beautiful landscape and scenery and yet somehow we are portrayed as being the beggars of these islands.
It is utterly inconceivable that a population of 5 million could not exist and indeed thrive on our natural wealth in every facet of human existence.
What it does teach us is to have belief in ourselves. There are many who would lie swindle and cheat the Scottish people out of what is rightfully their own.
As for the likes of Sir Ian Wood who has insider knowledge of all oil business, he clearly lied stating that oil was finished. I think no explanation of why SIR Ian Wood would do that is required.
Maybe they’ll move the Scotland/England border to put the new oil field into English waters. That would solve it. As Betty Boop says, they don’t even blush about their lies being found out. They simply move on to the next one. They have an inexhaustable supply of them.
Sky paper review last night had the two wank*** Kevin Maguire Andrew Pierce as usual rubbishing Scotland Pierce stating we would be worse than Greece no proof but that does not matter to him I have always thought myself easy going but that Pierce gets my blood boiling.
It will be the wrong sort of oil, only works if the broad shoulders of Westminster are in control. I’m sure someone will be along soon to tell us all about it.
“Greece without the sunshine”? More like Norway with the whisky.
No doubt the present UK Government will have to declare all their (our) wealth for the future negotiations to come and their borrowing requirements.
Since oil in Scottish Waters was first discovered around 1970, successive UK Governments have kept very very quiet about it. Even after the McCrone report, kept secret for 30 years, news of the oil bounty has not been widely disseminated, (The National continues to refuse to publish it) and every Prime Minister in turn, rarely, if ever, speaks about oil, which is contrary to nature.
If the oil had been found in English Waters, we would be hearing about it constantly.
When the books are opened after Independence, it is well nigh inevitable that we will find that the truth about Westminster’s exploitation of the Scottish colony’s oil has been far greater than we have been led to believe.
Treachery comes easy to Westminster, more so when it is stealing oil.
“Massive amount of Oil found in UK waters” mind..God bless you Jackie Bird and the BBC!
I wonder how much this Oil will cost the British Tax payer in the long run of rebates and cosy directorships down the line?
We could avoid such costs of course by voting YES but how would impact the very wonderful UK’s standing in the world?
[…] Wings Over Scotland Under the Ridge One of the favourite sneering Unionist memes of the independence referendum was the […]
This oil is in a geological feature known as the East Atlantic Margin. It extends north from oil field in South of Ireland up west coast of Ireland and West Coast of Scotland…… There’s Oil in the Clyde….Ye Haaaaawwwwwww
So does that put ‘too poor’ to rest?
Good things come to those who wait.
And NOW we are ready = )
I posted bits of this here some time ago. It shows up just how important “Scotland’s oil” is to the UK economy.
According to recent data from a UK official source (link to gov.uk ):
UK import dependency at 2016: for oil is 36% and natural gas is 50%.
Projected UK import dependency at 2025: for oil is 52% and natural gas is 67%.
Now consider that Scotland is independent and then consider the impact of this on the rUK’s import dependency – both immediately and into the future. Import dependency for oil would rise to nearly 100% as almost all current and future oil production comes from Scotland’s, not rUK territory. In addition to the impact on imports and its already negative balance of payments, it also brings strategic energy security concerns for the rUK.
So as the pundits discuss the strength or otherwise of the UK government’s hand in BREXIT negotiations and Unionists point up Scotland’s ‘dependency’ on rUK markets for trade, when we come to consider the strength of a independent Scotland’s hand in trade negotiations with Westminster, our oil assets will be crucial.
It is at least arguable that the marked increase in rUK import dependency over the long term which will follow from ‘losing’ Scotland’s oil as an indigenous, UK asset will be a more important factor in seeking (desperately) to hang on to Scotland than is the retention of the tax take from a commodity with a volatile market price.
The emerging importance of the Atlantic Margin oil province (in discussion, we should never just lump this in with the ‘North Sea’) will just add to Westminster’s determination to do all it can – by fair means or foul – to prevent Scottish independence!
Yeah but is this oil not in Liberal Democrat Independent Shetland waters or do they still want to be British at the moment
Or perhaps a referendum after Scotland’s Independent so’s they can make up their minds which way to jump from one dogs back to another
Waiting for Tavish Scott to jump up and down excitedly in Holyrood to tell us more on a new convoluted Liberal Democrat solution to this disasterous boon for the poor downtrodden Islands
Timing is key, in life and politics as in love and comedy. This is (to borrow a phrase) a “blow for May” as I’m sure the UK govt would have preferred to have this away from the public awareness. Luckily for Scotland’s future HUR did discover this oil boon and announced it publicly (because that will rocket share price and that is the duty of a company, not politicking).
The fact the media are reporting on it though maybe suggests a slight shift in the tide? Perhaps bexitgeddon and the insufferable arrogance of WM tories is getting to even our most dutiful propagandists?
Haggistrap – Oil
The only question that remains is – to what lengths is Westminster prepared to go in order to continue extraction of oil from the Scotland Colony. May is “determined” to keep the oil flowing to Westminster, sorry, to keep the UK together – a wee slip there.
Seriously, L&G, one almighty confrontation is coming in the very near future, when Westminster will not be able to hide its true intentions about Scotland’s vast wealth.
For 5 years, the British Establishment has been waging a propaganda war against Scotland.
The English believe they ‘own’ us.
If Scotland votes for Independence, the English will try to take control of the oil, and maybe the country, by force or stealth.
We are sailing into very dangerous waters indeed.
People keep talking about oil, all the major manufacturing countries do not rely on oil for the purposes of creating jobs and wealth in their economies, tale america and britain, the arms industry is much bigger than oil, japan has not natural resources, they have to import all their oil and stuff to run the country, is japan poor because it has no oil
Oil is an extra bonus for any country lucky enough to have it, but it is not a problem if you don’t have it, if scotland was independent we would be one of the richest countries in the world, we could invest some of the oil money for the scottish generations of the future, scotch brings in 4 billion pounds to the treasury, that’s the stuff produced in scotland, you know it costs £2 for a small whisky in scotland, how much does a gallon of fuel cost in scotland and most of the cost of a gallon of fuel goes to the treasury, so, tell the truth, is scotland more than paying its own way, britain is the most taxed country in the world, and scotland pays plenty of tax, from food, insurance, bank charges, vat on everything, tax tax tax, anyone who says scotland does not pay its own way is either a fool or a downright liar
They’ve lied and lied for years about the oil. The only means by which to stay informed about anything to do with our oil, our economy and the truth about Scotland’s wealth being circumvented by Westeminster and their cronies is to read Wings over Scotland, particularly below the line from commenters who have been aware of the reality for decades.
On a side note slightly O/T it’s occurred tae me that the reason the ‘hotel’ was picked by Downing Street yesterday was so that May’s conversation could not be ‘bugged’. Can we assume that all matters of ‘state’ are recorded by intelligence services? And could this be why Bute house was not utilised? The Crowne would have had tae be ‘security swept’ in advance would it not.
May (establishment) didn’t want tae take any chances that a ‘leak’ of the true conversation be made public?
What we need now is a 2017 McCrone Report, same format, same parameters, and detailing what an Independent Scotland should AND WILL be doing with this new found resource.
We have the actual McCrone Report, made manifest in Norway, but beggared beyond belief for Scotland, and we can draw such painful parallels between what Norway has achieved and what Westminster has achieved with exact same resource.
We need a new McCrone Report, drawn up now, to articulate why such thievery, lies, and incompetence must never be allowed to happen again. Scotland MUST make its resources safe from exploitation. This goes beyond scandal. The fraudsters who allowed this deception and plundering of our collective future to happen should be rotting in a Scottish jail, not prancing about in ermine for 300 pieces of silver a day.
Do not be influenced by Unionist whines about “Oh no, not oil again”. Aye, we will have this issue addressed, and addressed properly in all it’s underhand treacherous detail.
Record editor dreams up a subtle ruse to deflect attention away from Scotland’s immense oil wealth: juxtapose a highly interesting diversion to an issue of real importance – “Who decked Corrie Ken?”
Cameron went to Shetland in July 2014 – the first British PM to visit in 34 years – to pat some Shetland ponies and chat with the locals. If the Telegraph is to be believed:
link to archive.is
Or, according to the Shetland Times, visit some installations and chat with 100 politicians and industry leaders :
link to archive.is
In 2014 Cameron said that UK taxpayers’ support for energy consumers here was “a small example” of how the country’s “broad shoulders” could be an advantage “in every part of the United Kingdom”.
By 2017 we see energy prices rising, an ominous picture for Shetland, which already has a fuel poverty rate of 53 per cent.
Merr ile – merr poverty!
Lets not forget that Oil and Gas exploration down the West Coast of Scotland has been blocked by Westminster on the grounds of National security and unimpeded access for Nuclear submarine deployment.
At least that was the excuse given.
My hubby used to work on the oil rigs up ’til 2003. He used to talk about the loads of oil to the west of Shetland then. He said everybody on the rigs knew about it. It just couldn’t be got at tho’. Even in recent years he would say ‘just wait, somebody will find a way, their no gonnae leave all that in the ground’.
Always remember the ‘Kraken’ too. Spoilt for choice!
link to offshore-technology.com
Of course, to benefit from the oil bonanza, it has to be properly taxed. The Tax Justice Network thinks that we are giving it away. Even subsidising the oil companies to extract it:
link to taxjustice.net
Union Jackie was hilarious last night nearly choking on the news. I didn’t time the news piece but understand it was in the region of 17 seconds. I’m still chuckling. “Big undeveloped oil find off Shetland, nothing to see here, now some sport” … Genius.
I’m sure there’s more to find up there. Any seismic vessel wandering over the border into Faroese is immediately challenged by Danish warship who ensures they are not collecting data. Any vessel crossing into UK waters is immediately challenged, by err nobody.
Back in the 80s I was working in Morecombe Bay on supply vessels. Huge discovery off the Isle of Man. Don’t tell me the geology stops at the border.
I expect there will be a lot of Unionists saying that the oil is in Shetland waters and Shetland voted to remain part of the UK.
The problem with that is that it is untrue. If Shetland somehow detached itself from Scotland (highly unlikely) then, by international law, it would be treated as an enclave within Scottish waters. That is to say they would be entitled to a twelve mile marine limit, just like the Channel islands for example.
There are no oilfields within twelve miles of Shetland.
The great thing about the huge Rona Ridge fields is that they will be producing oil for fifty to one hundred years. Wealth which will flow to an independent Scotland.
Scotland is immensely rich. Don’t believe their lies. As someone said “Norway, but with whisky”
Dr. Jim, Lancaster is in Scottish EZ. Under UN Convention on Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Shetland’s EZ only extends for 12 miles not 200. Too long and complicated to explain fully here but if you Google, UNCLOS you will find it all explained.
Auld Rock
PS El Tavo can get stuffed – in fact best thing for him, LOL
The broad shoulders of the UK are allowing Oil extraction to proceed TAX FREE in terms of production and extraction.
PRT has been reduced from 75% to 0% removing a massive revenue income from the UK economy.
It can be argued that this was a deliberate political move to make NS Oil and Gas extraction look less attractive and profitable.
We have certainly had more than our fair share of media articles telling us how much Oil revenues have declined over the years without explaining that it was a DELIBERATE IDEOLOGCIAL choice made by consecutive UK Governments.
A clear betrayal which has public revenue potential removed in favour of Private Enterprise profit.
Think about it! An Indy Scotland charging 85% PRT on Oil extraction on todays Oil prices will rake in over 23 billion dollars worth of revenues on crude extraction alone.
Even better an Indy Scotland NATIONALISING the Oil industry will rake in the entire production profit net of extraction costs.
Its a no brainer.
Going by the huge size of the oil column, and reading about how the nearby finds are connected, there is likely much more than a billion barrels there.. it’s probably a multi-billion barrel field, and there are similar structures nearby.
Oil finds are always treated conservatively as companies and investors need to act with caution.. but this sort of discovery also has political implications.
It’s the same with BP’s nearby Clair field. The entire ridge likely has the same sort of underlying fractured basement rocks. But the BP chief spoke out against independence, and the company is also likely to be under political pressure to keep accurate reserve figures in that area kept well hidden.
@haggistrap – Just saw your similar comment. Interesting that BP scooped up the nearby blocks.
‘Oh, the oil, the oil’, said bettertogether woman.
There is masses of oil, in Scottish waters. England will continue to steal it. The Greens are not happy. One of them said on twitter that anyone rejoicing in an oil boom is an enemy of the planet.
I replied saying that any future oil reserves and therefore revenues could and will be used to invest in more renewables by the Scottish government. Pointed out that the yookay government have taken our oil and totally squanderd the money, spent it in england mainly the south.
I didn’t bother reading the Green guys response. I am all for clean energy, it is a travesty that we are at 2017, and still burning fossil fuels and even worse that the Tory, UKgovernment have removed funding for renewables across the board. Are the Greens up in arms about that? Would they rather the oil revenues continue to be taken by the UKgov and totally squandered.
So, the oil, swoon. Must get some cereal to go with my huge mug of tea! The anxiety of that oil discovery (it was known about well before 2014) is just too much.
Which territory are the fields situated in, (I know). When Scotland becomes independent, oil revenues will stay in Scotland. I think england should be very very nice to us right now.
Yesterday, T.May wasted everyone’s time and money, to insult our FM, for the cameras. It was a disgrace. Mayhem should have sent a cardboard cut out of herself and she should get on with her day job. She seems a bit obsessed with Scotland, I wonder why.
To paraphrase an SNP MP at a recent Prime Minister’s Questions:
‘With its £1.7 trillion debt and its basket case economy, can England/Wales afford to be an independent country?’
Our poor wee country saddled with even more of the nasty stuff. We’re doomed, doomed I tell ye!
Aye, only in Yoonland.
Why so open about the new discoveries now, with a second indyref on the cards?
Could in be because within hardnosed business assessments, iScotland is become inevitable, so no reason to conceal oil any longer.
@onward – exactly this : perhaps as many as 8 billion.
which of course has to change forecasts for remaining oil in UKC (was previously 20 million total).
The really interesting part of this story is that it proves the concept of basement reservoirs. In simple terms these are deep lieing reservoirs below traditional sandstone which has previously been source of our oil.
In Dr Robert Trices own words this could be a “game changing strategic resource”. The UK oil and gas authority seem to agree with him when out of round license was allocated.
Good to see the old lies from Unionists being exposed.
We are not GERS deniers, we’re GERS examiners.
Family of nations? No: Smith Commission gutted, SNP amendments all voted down, Sewell Convention, no more than words, oil, Norway shows how it can be done.
Of course both the Tories and Labour need to try to keep a lid on Scotland, because they are both being exposed as wretched liars.
Re;manandboy@11.15
That’s the worry, and it won’t just be UK interests that will do anything to get at the oil.
I really would prefer that oil had run out, diffiicult to read about it without getting the shivers.
Capella @ 11.29 and Mike @ 11.33
Re tax breaks for North Sea oil companies. Interesting article here about China and its involvement in the North Sea oil sector. The tax credit system means it receives over £300 million rather than paying around £2 billion or more in tax.
link to uk.businessinsider.com
Thank you, George Osborne.
We need a new McCrone Report…
link to imgur.com
… and they try to say they didn’t know…
“According to N-56, Scotland is set to become one of the five richest nations on earth.”
link to marketbusinessnews.com
Sleekit, conniving barstewards.
I got the story on the amount of oil lying off Scotland’s west coast back in the mid eighties. The amount is still being hidden from us.
I have hated the British State ever since.
There is Oil off the West coast and in the Irish Sea. Commercial activity on the Clyde was limited and banned by Thatcher because of Faslane. Get rid of Trident there will be multiBillions business Oil, vessels, building on the Clyde benefiting the Ayrshire coast . Instead of the mines etc. CCS at Longannet shelved and not supported by the ConDem liars.
Business for Scotland keep on getting it wrong about Oil taxes along with ‘expert’ Oil economists, business ‘expert’ economist and MSM reports. Immature, crooked Chancellors of the Exchequer. It is not because of a less tax regime. It is because the tax regime is not appropriate for the price, and cost of production. I.e. A too high tax regime when prices have fallen. Not appropriate for cost, profit and cost of production. Meaning production, costs profit etc are not achievable because of the tax regime. Shutting down production.
Just elementary business knowledge, elementary accounts knowledge, of balance sheet – profit and loss and twenty minutes on the internet – re UK Gov HMRC Oil tax accounts. The price of a barrel of Oil re tax. The ‘experts’ keep on going on about the Oil barrel price exclusively,affecting production. Not the price in relation to the Oil tax.
Too high tax in relationship to price and cost of production. It’s not Einstein. It’s basic accounts, slight business, knowledge, elementary maths, and access to internet UK HMRC Oil tax report. One person is now doing three jobs, because of Osbourne 6 jobs and useless Hammond who always gets it wrong and smirks at the idea of Scotland getting rid of Trident. Or a Naval base at Faslane to control the shores. Stop smuggling drugs getting in. Patrolling the coast on the 12 miles fishing limits and exclusive home port access for boats under EU regulations. The fishing vessels now use bigger nets under Scottish Gov – EU agreement on increased quotas.
Osbourne (UK Gov) shut down the Oil sector in complete ignorance of malice. The Scottish Gov appealed repeatedly for the tax regime to be brought down to support exploration. Losing Scotland £Billions – £25Billion + £Billions ? that has to be imported. = £50Billion? £10Billion loss for fives years+ Since 2010. The Oil tax is 40% since Jan 2016. It is picking up. The summertime is more productive because of the weather. There can be winter holdup because of the weather. Pipe lines are also being extended because of the need of decommissioning. Decommissioning is totally tax free (because of the high costs involved). That is being invested in various places. Coming onshore.
Oil discoveries can be kept quiet. Kept secret so the necessary paper work and licences can completed. Put in place in light of any rivalry. Kept totally confidential. Inside dealing can make some people a lot of money. The NS Oil production could go in for ever more under the right conditions. Used for the benefit of the community with the right conditions. Invested in renewables etc. It is not advantageous to have too high Oil prices because it can have a negative effect on the economy without adequate alternative. Scotland achieve and exceeds emission targets. The SNP Scottish Gov is greener than many others and invests very successful in renewables, exceeding reaching targets.
May I just repeat what someone said many years ago when oil was first being pumped out in the North Sea (apologies for not remembering who it was)
“Scotland is the poorest little rich country in the world.”
If the persistent ‘No’ voting Scots don’t waken up very soon, we will remain the poorest little rich country in the world.
And as for pooling and sharing. Well, I don’t mind pooling and sharing with people who respect and understand what pooling and sharing actually means, but I will not have my country constantly rubbished and insulted by people who expect us to pool and share our wealth with them while they begrudge every penny they ‘give back’ to us as if it were some sort of overseas aid and we were relying upon THEIR largesse to survive.
A guy came into our YES shop just before the Referendum to say he worked in the oil industry and there were huge oil reserves being discovered off the Shetlands. They had been told to go home and to say nothing about it. He also said that due to the undersea rock formation in that area and previous volcanic activity it was “interesting” what was coming up with the evidence of oil. There appeared to be gold in the sludge. He said the whole oil industry knows there is hundreds of years of oil around Scotland.
Let us not be unbalanced about this. It is and was a mistake to imply that Scotland’s economy is soley reliant on oil.
Last night’s special QT was highly significant in that at no point were any good reasons for leaving the EU established or even offered and most of it was a far from convincing rearguard action to defend an act of national and political stupidity. The mindless folly was particularly evident in the offerings from some of the audience.
What came over was a vision of a suppliant UK begging favours from other nations around the world.
There may well be a case for the leaving the EU. No sign of it last night however and I suspect the result would be reversed if another referendum was to be held.
More oil. Well that’s us totally fecked. It’s a curse I tell ya, a curse.
Now what about the West coast?
Whoever calls these people ‘journalists’ is either having a laugh or is a total moron.
Shameless peddlers of state propaganda is more like it.
I laugh when I see some newspaper editor being asked their opinion on some TV show on the country, economy etc.
I’m still trying to get my head around the fact that a country with a 5.3 million in population expenditure burden is able to run up a fiscal deficit when it has the largest Oil and Gas asset in Europe coupled with 25% of the EUs entire renewable energy potential meaning that its Oil and Gas can be used as export sales and not for domestic use.
Most Oil and Gas producers are burdened with the need to use much of their product within a domestic energy distribution capacity.
Scotland doesn’t. Scotland is almost weekly increasing its domestic reliance over to renewable energy sources and decreasing its need on fossil fuels enabling it to increase its export market in fossil fuel assets.
Its amazing that people in Scotland give credence to project fear claims on our economic potential without question.
That’s the power of media for you. They take a reality and give it a perception which has people denying common sense itself.
Curious about this Greece reference all the time. How many Greeks are there demanding a return to Ottoman rule? Is there any party in Greece which wants to be part of the Turkish empire?
And how big is the demand for a monarchy in Greece? Their 19th Century one was imported from Germany too.
Read the Chinese Oil article. ‘Reduce tax regime levels in 2014 from 62% to 50% allowing for a one time yearly only deferral’
They were getting a tax rebate because the tax rate was reduced for 62% to 50%. The rebate is 12%. ie 62% minus 50%. The Chinese still paid 50% tax in any production, Ring fenced Corporation tax so companies can’t set too high interest rates against tax. As per UK Gov HMRC tax regime in 2014. Accounts. ie The price per barrel had fallen drastically.
Legerwood
Indeed. You will find the same profit margins being given to every Private Oil company working within the UK sector of the North Sea.
Its actually and act of blatant Treason on the UK by the UK Government.
The deliberate theft of public funding.
Does anyone know: does the UK government sell all these exploration licences or do they just give them away for free? If they sell them how much? And who gets the money? Is it in the GERS figures ?
Listened to the BBC in Falkirk about the prospect of another indyref. it was like going through the looking glass. We cannae afford it, England subsides us, SNP promised one referendum in our lifetime, we are British. There has only ever been one argument we need to win – the idea that we are fleeced, not subsidised – but the subsidy myth seems to have a death grip on the Scottish electorate.
There’s oil in that soil. Its just not for the people of Scotland.
Scotland wont see much if any of this. The whole not Scots oil and gas sector’s was rigged over a decade by Thatcher’s crew, to siphon it all out and over Scotland, straight into the Treasury, City, giant pension and hedge funds. Its such a big vital business, and as we all know, great for beating Scottish democracy to death, by big fat slobs skulking in Glasgow suburbs. An incredible resource, looted.
But we voted NO in 1979 and 2014 so there is one last chance coming.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Worth over $5 trillion, pays George Osborne a million dollars a year for something or other.
“Scotland is floating in oil” I told my UKOK Libdem in-laws in Oban around 2013 when there had been a flurry of small and medium sized finds some in the papers and some reported on sites like WoS.
I went on to list the other natural and business resources we had, reminding them that Scotland had to balance the budget every year, and had no debt to worry about as it it would be balanced by assets belonging to Scotland that would have to be ‘transferred’ from WM after independence. Then Scotland would grow.
“Scotland is about to change big-time” I said.
They just gave me an astonished and fearful look, and they went on to vote no!
The SNP near wipeout of the other parties in Scotland and the 56 MPs to Westminster came to pass.
They still cannot understand it or see it as a good development, they live in dread and voted to ‘leave’ in the Brexit referendum.
They are fearties! I hardly have any conversation with them now.
Unfortunately still lots of them still in Scotland I think.
The oil is nice to have but independence must not be based on that alone. It is natural for a country to be independent and make its own decisions…end off!
Today we vote Section 30 through and so it goes! 🙂
PS: lightening the mood I caught this wee story in the Hootsman.
link to archive.is
K1
Re hour thoughts on bugging. The opposite had crossed my mind. I thought it was an opportunity for the establishment to record Nicola in the hope of getting something to use against her.
In reality I think May was just taking the piss, knowing No Nicola can’t be seen to turn down a meeting where ever that might be.
Political games on steroids coming up, especially due to new oil find.
More oil and more ways to get more oil too – link to n-56.org
Some new methods may be ok, but offshore fracking maybe not. Do you think any UK government would have any environmental concerns that would prevent them from doing anything offshore as long as it made money for them (and it wasn’t off their shores should it go tits up).
Of course if the UK got the same tax revenue per barrel as others do, that would be a third way to boost oil tax revenues.
link to resourcegovernance.org
Then there’s renewable energy………
For immediate release: 27 March 2017
This announcement contains inside information.
Hurricane Energy plc
(“Hurricane” or the “Company”)
Completion of Halifax Well Operations and Release of the Transocean Spitsbergen Rig
Well Results Indicate that Lancaster and Halifax are a Single Hydrocarbon Accumulation
Hurricane Energy plc, the UK based oil and gas company focused on hydrocarbon resources in naturally fractured basement reservoirs, announces that operations on the 205/23-3A well (the “Halifax Well”) are complete.
The Company can confirm that the well is an oil discovery with initial data analysis indicating Halifax is linked to the Lancaster field forming a single large hydrocarbon accumulation.
The information below relating to the Halifax Well is preliminary and will be updated following detailed analysis once the final well data and third party reports have been received and analysed.
The principal purpose of the Halifax Well was to support the Company’s view that the Lancaster Field and the Halifax prospect are one large connected structure. Well results support the Company’s opinion. The Halifax Well has successfully identified an extensive oil column, significantly below local structural closure. The reservoir interval encountered is pervasively fractured with porosities similar to those at Lancaster. The Company believes that the deeper oil down to (“ODT”) at 1,846m true vertical depth subsea (“TVDSS”) identified in the Halifax Well, compared with an oil water contact (“OWC”) at Lancaster at 1,678m TVDSS, is most likely caused by a tilted OWC.
The Halifax Well was drilled and cased to 1,179m TVDSS in accordance with the Company’s drilling programme which was designed to isolate a potential gas cap and oil bearing column to a depth of 100m true vertical thickness (“TVT”) below structural closure. It was subsequently drilled to 1,801m TVDSS and a Drill Stem Test (“DST”) was undertaken. However, constrained by budget, available time and the safety requirement of drilling overbalance, the well was unable to clean up and recovered only traces of formation oil to surface. The well was finally TD’ed at 2,004m TVDSS, with no confirmed OWC encountered.
Following discussions with the Oil & Gas Authority, the Halifax Well has been suspended to allow for potential future operations to either deepen and/or undertake further testing of the well, the programme for which will be determined following analysis of the well results.
Preliminary third party analysis from the Halifax Well indicates:
· a very significant hydrocarbon column of at least 1,156 metres is present within the basement extending well below local structural closure (which is at 1,040 metres TVDSS);
· that the basement reservoir below the final casing point (1,179m TVDSS) is pervasively fractured (based on initial analysis of borehole image logs processing); and
· that porosity is consistent with that at Lancaster (based on initial petrophysical analysis.
The Spitsbergen rig has demobilised and is no longer on hire to Hurricane.
Dr Robert Trice, Hurricane’s CEO, commented:
“This is a highly significant moment for Hurricane and I am delighted that the Halifax Well results support the Company’s view that its substantial Lancaster discovery has been extended to include the Halifax licence. We believe that the GLA is a single hydrocarbon accumulation, making it the largest undeveloped discovery on the UK Continental Shelf.
The discovery of a 1km hydrocarbon column at Halifax validates the efforts the Company undertook to acquire the licence and drill, test and log the Halifax Well through the winter months. Given the positive well results, the Halifax Well has been suspended to provide the Company the option to return to undertake further testing as well as provide the option to deepen the well and thereby establish a definitive oil water contact.
The end of the Halifax Well marks the completion of the 265 days during which Hurricane has had the Transocean Spitsbergen rig on hire. The Company has successfully drilled one development (Lancaster Sidetrack), one appraisal (Lancaster Pilot), one intervention on the 2014 horizontal well (in preparation for well completions in Q2 2018) and two exploration (Lincoln and Halifax) wells. We have now completed the well stock for our Early Production System (“EPS”) and in the process materially increased and de-risked the resource volumes associated with Lancaster. The exploration wells on Lincoln and Halifax have resulted in the discovery of extensive oil columns and we therefore expect that later iterations of our CPR will significantly upgrade our resource base on both the Greater Lancaster and Greater Warwick Areas.
I would personally like to thank Transocean whose pragmatic approach to commercial and contractual negotiations have been a breath of fresh air in today’s tough industry environment, and have facilitated Hurricane’s successful campaign during a time when UK exploration and appraisal drilling has been at a low. We have created a great partnership and I look forward to successfully continuing this relationship.
The Lancaster CPR is due imminently and FID for the Lancaster EPS remains on track for the end of H1 2017. We will process the data from the Lincoln and Halifax wells and expect to release updated CPRs towards the end of 2017.
These are exciting times for Hurricane.”
Chinese Oil tax
The £361Million rebate was 12%. Deferred in 2015 because the tax regime was reduced in 2014 from 62% to 50% . The Chinese company still paid 50% tax on production. Ie on the amount they produced Accounts are always submitted a year later. For the year before. The accounts/tax is sorted are a year later. Adjusted. If too much tax has been paid there is a rebate paid.. 6 April – the start of the tax year. To get the money in money paid out and the accounts prepare for all industry/business.
The paid £361 Million X (times 4). The £361Million was a reduction from the £361Million X 5 (times 5) they paid the year before, because of the tax regime changes. From 62% to 50%. In 2014/ 15 More tax revenues were raised. Declared in the Scottish /UK Gov accounts. It was last year the revenues had fallen to £Millions because the tax regime was not reduced enough in time to benefit increased production.
They also paid wages, salaries NI personal taxation on workers salaries along with the supply chain. Maintenance, transport, helicopter contracts, supply boat costs, catering. Vehicle maintenance, accommodation costs. Etc.
Even more oil huh! Those greedy fuckers in London will be rubbing their hands with glee and will spend it in jig time. So yes we will be poorer if these bastards get their sweaty paws on it.
Indy Scotland will be Europe’s power house.
Wind, oil & wave energy in abundance and you wonder why the old empire are so keen to hang on to us? They’re still gutted about letting India go.
Re,Maid_in_Scotland@12.00
The UK brit establishment have been and are the biggest scammers in the world. A bit like those ones who con old folks out of their savings. Scotland never fell for it, but a few opportunist rogues answered the call and agreed to hand over Scotland’s land and resources for them.
They did a really fantastic job of keeping Scotland poor, and blaming the Scots, while pocketing the revenues. Into the bargain, the yoons ensured that the people of england and even around the world, viewed Scotland as a major subsidy junkie, when in fact the opposite was true. Clever, and typical bullying behaviour.
Thing is, now that the cowboy job, that the rogues agreed on, on behalf of Scotland, has proved less than secure, and the walls are falling down, they never built the roof, people want their money back. It should be paid back with interest.
Let’s ignore anymore scams from WM.
Stop listening to the BBC. Stop picking the sore. It keeps festering. They thrive on it. It increases their influence. No viewers/listeners. No programmes. No one listens or view them any more. Be selective. It can’t go on indefinitely.
But the Daily Records graph man will point out its the wrong kid of oil surely..
See graphs
?Oil to the left of us Oil to the right
Here we are stuck in the middle with Yoons ?
Whatever the final tally of hydrocarbons there is offshore
Unless we control its extraction it will be squandered by WM.
Licensed correctly a Scottish government could insist on part Nationalised partnerships
Like Norway. Oil companies won’t refuse. This will help appease the Greens position.
Whilst we keep funding and expanding renewables we achieve a double whammy.
And if we subsidies electric cars like Norway ( free re charging in town) it helps reduce
Scotland’s reliance on Oil for use.
Having a huge oil surplus kills any call for Fracking stone dead ( Sir Ian Wood will be upset)
Getting the McCrone report plastered over the MSM should be imperative
And is there not one journalist out there who wants to know who the 100 businessmen who met with Cameron?
OT I see tesco has been fined millions of pounds for fraud in their books but they have come to an arrangement with fraud office but no word of any of those responsible being charged with fraud? The establishment protecting their. own again plus you can apply to be a chief constable even if you have no experience in the police I kid you not , ex cabinet ministers etc., can apply is this the establishment trying to get their place men in before they can no longer delay the Westminster child sexual abuse is exposed ???? Surley not .
It is a shame that we had already exceeded the carbon budget to stay under 1.5 degrees warming with all previously documented oil available for extraction. If we burn this new oil, we cook the planet. If it’s not already too late.
We need an economic plan for independence based on inputs from renewable energy self sufficiency. To hit such massively ambitious targets, oil resources would need to be utilised almost exclusively to build the new energy infrastructure and when targets are met, the rest of the oil should be left in the ground.
To Alwi. Brilliant comment.
It is not just about any one field (although significant).
Each development leads to an improved infrastructure in the area. E.g. Once a pipeline is in place it gets easier to justify the business case for a second, third platform etc. When an installation is on location then nearby smaller fields become viable via subsea tie backs and so on with logistics etc.
We have a false representation of operating costs / taxation / reserves etc.
Oil reserves / income must be discussed over decades and not short periods which distort the value to a nation’s finance.
Look at the income over 40years sent to Westminster which was used to balance the books. Now compare this to the fund in Norway. We can still start a fund as an Independent country which will ensure a net contribution. The ability to pay in during the peaks of Oil price and draw from the fund during low oil prices.
I don’t even understand why we are debating the value of this resource. What other nation would see Oil & Gas reserves as a “problem”
Love the idea of Fracking within a Scotland in Union.
Scotland gets all the Geographical headaches while Westminster rakes in all the revenues and Sales profits.
Scotland in Union. Ye cannae whack it.
Lancaster was drilled in 2009 and subsequently sidetracked in 2010, with well testing flowing light (38° API) oil to surface from the fractured basement. The results of the drilling also indicated that significant upside potential could exist within Lancaster as oil shows were encountered at depth within the basement. The Competent Person’s Report (CPR) undertaken by RPS in 2010 assigns 207 MMboe of 2C Contingent Resources to Lancaster and concludes that individual well flow rates up to 8000 bopd are achievable from the basement.
———————————
the oil has an 38° API, the same as Brent crude, therefore has the same value as brent crude.
the formation west of shetland is devonian, high porosity but low permeability, the hurricane assets are naturally fractured matrix
because devonian rock is the oldest rock, upon which life once roamed, it is the oldest rock that can possibly contain oil. as such, it is generally found at much greater depths than other oil bearing formations. geology has brought the hurricane assets much closer to the surface.
this is very good news for the industry, eg, the brent field platforms are being decomissioned, they have been producing brent crude from 5 formations
Broom
Rannoch
Etive
Ness
Tarbairt
together, the oil has an api of 38. but there exists huge deposits of devonian rock below these abandoned 5 formations, previous and the last attempt to access these devonian formations (the barnacle well on the Brent Delta) failed due to drilling issues, eg collapsing well walls. this sealed the fate of these old and expensive platforms but interest in these formations will be renewed due to Hurricane Oils discoveries.
@ Clootie
“I don’t even understand why we are debating the value of this resource. What other nation would see Oil & Gas reserves as a “problem””
None Clootie.
The Scottish electorate have been the victims of the worst kind of theft, fraud and deliberate disinformation for decades.
They’ve been robbed blind. Stabbed in the back by a ‘partner’ and convinced that’s a good thing. In point of fact those bastards in that house on the Thames have perpetrated this crime, this disinformation on the electorate of the entire UK.
It’s long past due that the other shoe drops on this deception. If things go our way in the near future, Karma is going to have a field day in Westminster among the political class.
Talking of crazed Yoons, I heard Cochrane on the radio last night. I had forgotten he existed. He was as fantastically Yoonish as he ever was. It gave me a laugh as I sat in a traffic jam so if nothing else he was light comedy relief.
Come 5pm they will all be back on the Yoon train singing their praises to Yoonery 🙂
This time round they sound a lot less credible and the realisation that so much from 2014 was bare faced lies will not help their case.
Looks like a whole hour of Ligger Neil’s vote tory BBC Politics show for lunch, was all given over to the boss of UK’s biggest frackers INEOS. Fracking is great you know, really really great, must be a smirky beeb gimp says so.
It wasn’t the actual billionaire owner of INEOS that wants to destroy England’s green and pleasant, because you can never have too much money.
I can hear the Tories in Westminster already,” Brexit? god must love us, see the oil we have found to back us”
Hurrah Hurrah, and it IS, our oil to do with what we want to,we will sort the EU out now, Hurrah Hurrah!!
About the scots?, well they can go fuck themselves it is OUR oil,
Hurrah Hurrah!!”
RE: bugging/Bute House – might the reason not be that any bugs found in Bute House would likely be those put there by UK security services. Can’t have those being discovered, so best not to search.
Add the Clyde estuary to the list. Long rumoured in these parts but squashed by the ministry of defence because of interference with nuclear sub operations.
BBC r4 lunchtime news skips over Scottish and Holyrood, spends ages with Jim Naughty in your America, extremely detailed in depth, state and federal America politics, why, fuck knows. Future Sir Jim OBE, needs the work?
God I wish someone would stand up and say “we can’t stand by and watch you use OUR resources as bargaining chips, this is why we have to leave BEFORE you do”.
If I had the run of Holyrood I’d use the oil profits to fund as much renewables as possible, then I’d say that all new housing must have it’s own/shared wind turbines, PV panels, ground/air heat exchangers and the best insulation available. At the same time I would start in the north and renovate all housing to the same sort of standard and work my way south. Then I’d think about other things…
Over a thousand miles from the not Scots Atlantic oil patch,
link to kentonline.co.uk
@AltClut
“As we all know Indy Scotland will, legally, have no economic deficit.”
I think you may have meant ‘debt’ rather than deficit.
We probably will have some kind of deficit although the £15 billion figure is laughable and does not stack up against any kind of scrutiny for a post indy scenario. It doesn’t even add up in terms of expenditure per head minus tax revenue.
But we will not really know the true figure until Scotland is independent. It may even, quite possibly be a surplus.
On a side note, if the UK does renege on its debt to the EU it would become all the more likely that Scotland would not accept a share of UK debt and be cheered for it.
Fracked Gas from the US, ruining the US environment, is being imported into Grangemouth. The UK is using it. The ConDem refused CCS storage at Longannet in Fife. A promise Tory Gas CCS project at Peterhead supported by BP or Shell.
The BBC is still continuously reporting that Teresa Mays “Now is not the time” statement to mean she has totally rejected Nicola Sturgeons timetable proposals out of hand.
This is the worst kind of bias State managed propaganda any media could display.
“Now is not the time” is no way to interpret a denying of the proposed timetable of an Indyref for 18 months to 2 years in the future.
Its actually a means to prevent a commitment to deny an Indyref in 18 months to 2 years time. AND THEY KNOW IT!
Fucking BBC man.
Chick
Norway doesn’t have a deficit. A deficit is not a National default position its a choice taken through ideological policy program pursuit.
And let’s not forget the massive reserves of Oil and Gas that Scotland has outwith this discovery.
Also the potential for more discoveries down the West coast.
Scotland has the largest Oil and Gas fields within the EU and London wants to continue to keep all the tax revenues generated from them.
Tesco crooks who fraudulently cooked the books and should go to jail. Have been let loose. The Go and do not go to jail, Tesco gets let off with a fine. The consumers pay for it. It is just disgraceful. The UK is one of the only places in the world were criminal and fraudsters embezzling public money and evading taxes do not go to jail.
Multinationals making vast profits and evading taxes just get away with it because of the Westminster unionist criminals. That is why the Tories want out of the EU. So Tory and their associates can crash the economy, illegally manipulate the markets and tax evade. The EU is tightening up tax evasion.
Well that’s enough tory beeb gimps for one day, with BBC r4 lunchtime news bashing on and on about what the Heil perverts were doing with their latest anti Scottish democracy front page.
Tory media pervs are just as psychopathic as tory politicos.
I sense growing traction to the idea that oil isn’t “green” and should be left where it is – I skipped through the comments and saw this idea mentioned at least once. Global warming and all that. We may even see an argument along these lines during the run up to another referendum to attempt to diminish oils importance. Didn’t Patrick Harvie say this last time round?
I’m no chemist but I know oil is used in many other ways – plastics,asphalt, and a host of other areas. It doesn’t have to be burned as fuel, so – genuine question – why leave it in the ground?
Won’t it always be worth serious money and worth extracting?
Loved Tom Crotty of INEOS on the Politics show making a sporting analogy comparing negotiation with a football match ,
“They start in their goal area and you start in yours and you work towards the centre. If you both start in the centre nobody wins anything. ”
This is a so called leader of industry who appears on T.V. to give us the benefit of his knowledge, experience and business acumen, who apparently has never seen a football match.
Mike Russell seemed very assured that the letter to be issued at 5pm to the PM. Had outlined the exact route to indi ref 2 in the event of any block on democracy. I think the SNP have been working behind the scenes on something very conclusive. Perhaps involving other nations and lawyers!
“Now is not the time,” shrieks Mayhem and the collective Yoonetariat.
“Aye it is!”
“Now IS the Time…”
link to youtube.com
I know how important oil is to us, especially in our new Scotland.
It will serve many useful purposes in regards to our overall we fare as a caring nation.
However as far as long term and affordable energy I feel geo thermal is the way to go, America and other nations are seriously looking at how to harness the internal heat of the earth to create power. Many major names are investing in it now.
This does not destroy the inner heat of the earth, simply by boring down a few thousand feet and a apply water steam comes out and then used to generate turbines that in turn create electricity. This is of course a simple explanation it is only a little bit more complicated than that.
However, once done little maintenance is required, and would have low staffing requirements. It makes it a no brainer, that is why others are looking at seriously.
I see not reason, given today’s drilling systems that we could not do it here in Scotland to create an eco friendly environment. This is where a chunk of oil revenues could go, low cost electricity for the whole of Scotland.
Another industry that Scots could be leaders.
The imposition of English Tory rule masquerading as the UK Government on Scotland and Norn Ireland is thrusting its way down an ever narrowing tunnel to an end it keeps closing its eyes to and hoping it will all go away
It wont, it’s creeping its inevitable way to a horror show of epic proportions for the little band of Brexit rascals, and such is their stupidity on the subject Tory MPs are now making veiled threats to the EU Scotland and immensely even more stupidly to Norn Ireland
These Tory rascals are about to find out us expendables find ways of biting back and they’re not going to like it
Scotland, Norn Ireland and the EU all at the one time telling the English government to have another think about their attitude and stop digging this big hole for themselves and still Mrs Mays little rascals are looking for more shovels to excavate faster
Because that’ll do it for sure eh
“ELFES” English Laws for English stupidity
@ Toby – thanks for that. So funny. Stu should make a clip and we can play it any time we want to laugh at captains of industry.
Galamcennalath @ 11.42
Or could the publicity around the oil yesterday (we knew about it for a while) be designed to put a wedge between the Greens and the SNP in time for today’s debate and vote.
This from a fb comment today from a guy that still works in the Industry
80nmls west of the Butt of Lewis in 1990, Santa Fe 140 rig, massive finds. keep looking at all these suddenly appearing massive find, and these are the wells being drilled in late 80’s and early 90’s.
The British State will continue to try to divide and rule by detaching Shetland from Scotland. Why wouldn’t they?
True, there is no groundswell of opinion whatsoever in the Isles for this, but there is the group Wir Shetland. Don’t discount them.
Yes, their primary motivation, publicly stated by leading members, is British Unionism.
Yes, the leading lights are well known (being kind) eccentrics, some local, some imported. Yes they have never stood a candidate (but some members are understood to be standing for Council as ‘independents’ this year).
Yes, of the three ‘independent’ councillors who supported them originally one left due to misogynistic bullying, one is facing criminal charges, and one remains.
Yes a Crown Dependency Shetland would have a 12 mile limit.
But: the situation for an ostensibly fully independent Shetland is less clear cut. Westminster will try to exploit that.
It’s important that Yes wins in Shetland. Really important.
This is why I keep banging on about EFTA. Re-assure folk that we won’t be back in the Common Fisheries Policy, and Shetland is winnable. At the very least it removes a campaign obstacle.
[…] enjoyed a good chuckle this morning over at Wings Over Scotland, who was pointing out how the less level-headed unionists among us, who have been sniggering at us […]
Regarding oil, the cold water coral of the Darwin mounds, an area 50 miles long has been aided by the warmth in the sea bed due to? You guessed it, OIL, this and the Rockall Basin are supposed to be the biggest oil fields in the world, beating the Saudi and midddle east oild fields combined, this was mentioned in 2002 when comercial trawling was banned from the Darwin mounds due to damage being done to the reefs.
Oil was found on the NW part of the Isle of Skye in 1988/9 but at time wasnt commercially viable as was difficult to extract from ground, would it be viable now? who knows, the man with the licence for the area and the well died a few years ago when being an international observer on Canadian fishing vessels
“Or could the publicity around the oil yesterday (we knew about it for a while) be designed to put a wedge between the Greens and the SNP in time for today’s debate and vote.”
Doubtful Liza. The Greens would know the Tories in WM would be drilling it up anyway for the tax revenue. They’ve more of a chance in indy Scotland to affect policy.
Every country has a yearly working deficit, paying money out before taxes coming in. It is resolved at the year’s end. Countries in surplus have money in reserve deposited in the Gov account. Fort Knox. To balance the account. Also they can have a deficit supported by the assets. The books are balanced by country’s wide calculation. Assets which can be put up as collateral. If they need funds assets which can be sold off. State companies invested and control other countries assets. Railways, Utilities, Fuel and energy companies. Banking/Finance. Inter country’s banking lending.
Countries Gov assets and credits. Government estate land, schools, hospitals, gov building, mineral assets. Including. Personal assets. People’s valuables. Precious metals, jewellery, cars, property land. Land values. Ships boats, planes. Oil reserves. Any money in gov reserves. Bank reserves. Pension fund assetsTotal £9Trn?
This is set against the total,of people’s personal debt. Mortgages. Government current deficit. £1.9Ttillion Mortgages on Gov property, PLL ie mortgage on hospital building. £1.9Trns Yearly interest rates. Pension deficits.
Total credits £9Trn? Total debt £1.9Trn. The Oil reserves could be used as part of the BoE guaranteed.
The UK Gov Treasury is paying back loan repayments for borrowings which could be better spent because they are not closing the deficit. They are not raising enough in taxes in rest of the UK to cover expenses. Illegally borrowing more in rest of the UK. Scotland raises enough to cover all expenses. It would be in surplus if it was not having to follow UK Gov policies.
To all those who are (rightly) worried about burning hydrocarbons and its effect on the planet. Remember: oil isn’t just used for fuel. We do still need it for manufacturing of textiles and plastics.
Also, someone’s going to burn that oil- we can’t stop that. But we could try and regulate it, and mitigate its impact with investment of profits in research.
For most of my life, I thought myself very fortunate to have been born in Scotland, even with England as neighbours. Then I found out, starting with the McCrone report, what the neighbours had been up to, and still up to.
It was then I realised that Scotland is a Colony, and we Scots are essentially a nation of indigenous, brainwashed, gullible, subservient, fearties.
However, we are in recovery, although there are still many walking the street who would gladly give everything Scotland owns, just so long as our English Colonial Masters can continue to rule over us, and allow us to call ourselves ‘British’, even though they hold us in complete disdain and contempt, and rob us daily as if we were deaf and blind.
I don’t think being born here is such a great thing anymore. Being lied to and abused every day by a neighbour who is fleecing you, is not exactly designed to make anyone happy.
I now live in hope that Scotland will have another Independence Referendum – and that the deaf will hear and the blind see.
And then, we will no longer be a colony, instead we will be independent and free.
Aye Graeme, ah did mean to ‘qualify’ ‘no leaks from SG’side. The ‘sweep’ would of course allow for ‘establishment’s’ side to put a nice plant in the room.
Ken500 says:
28 March, 2017 at 1:26 pm
Fracked Gas from the US, ruining the US environment, is being imported into Grangemouth. The UK is using it.
Psychopath tory PM Mayhem, first world leader to kiss psychopath Pres Trump’s ring, Pres Trump’s made another psychopath head of the US Environmental Protection Agency, Senator Scott Pruitt.
This psychopath is from Oklahama, a state fracked so hard by the frackers, its gone for three earth quakes a year to over 2000. Pruitt is a psycho’s psycho, a climate change denier opposing everything from abortion rights to same-sex marriage. As a lawyer he has repeatedly sued the EPA, defending all kinds of industrial pollution, rivers and land. Where else are they going to dump waste from oil and gas drilling operations, if not in the rivers? As Oklahoma state senator, Pruitt went big and scrapped Oklahoma’s EPA.
His new job will allow him now to scrap the EPA of all America, now that Trump has cut the EPA budget by at least a third.
Fast forward to the Ligger Neil vote tory BBC Politics show in London this lunchtime and its the boss of the UK’s biggest fracker INEOS, sat next to a smirking beeb gimp, for their whole hour long show, expounding the joys ahead for fracking in the UK.
BBC corruption really out stank itself today. At the very least, that Daily Politics show beeb gimp today does look psycho too.
EFTA is the way to go, it can be taken as a step forward towards the EU, but after a vote to do so.
I said this before 2014 ref and I say it now. Sure there are some things not to like but I feel that Scotland would be comfortable within it, along with other countries of similar size we would share similar out looks and co-operation would be good.
When you look at Norway, going the EFTA way has done them a lot more good than harm. Scotland could do a lot worse, indeed we do an awful lot worse already. I will back Indy,always have, always will, to get rid of the Westminster albatross which hangs around our necks but EFTA does it for me in the relationship stakes.
Sorry, I may have picked this up wrong in the article, but the Claire ridge is a separate oil filed from this discovery.
The Claire ridge platforms are being commissioned as we speak and are just about to come on stream in the very near future.
The discovery by Hurricane is well south west of the Claire ridge and the platforms, which will no doubt be built in south east Asia, wouldn’t even be on the drawing board yet.
A few other developments that are just getting commissioned are the Kraken, the western isles development, the mariner and the Culzean.
All been built in south east Asia with hardly a Scot working on them.
WTF man? BBC Parliament isn’t showing the live Indyref debate from the Scottish Parliament even though they’re advertising the fact that they are?
I’m watching a Labour drone in Westminster monotoning a waffle about a subject I haven’t fathomed yet.
@Lenny Hartley 1:54 pm :
“80nmls west of the Butt of Lewis in 1990, Santa Fe 140 rig, massive finds.”
There’s been various test drills over the years on the west coast of Lewis which have shown promising results.
However the rock is a lot more challenging than elsewhere – Lewisian gneiss is (IIRC) the second oldest rock on the planet. Lewis itself is between 2.2-2.7 billion years old and the rock is basically granite gneiss (tough stuff).
Add in the normal weather conditions (there’s bugger all between Lewis and Nova Scotia) which are probably worse than Shetland & MUCH worse than the North Sea….
Its all down to cost of recovery again. From memory there were test drills through 1983-1992 or so – IIRC the oil price was very low then so interest waned.
tl;dr Oil is present on the west coat of Lewis, nobody is sure how much, probably not economical to extract yet.
Macart @ 1.03 p.m.
While I agree with all you say Mac, the people who leave the worst taste in my mouth are the so-called “proud scots”, the collaborators, whether they be politicians, journalists, or business people, all condemning both the country, Scotland, and its people, to a life of penury and servitude, when things could have been so much better, for all of us.
They disgust me, and they are still at it, running our country, and its people down. Exactly what do they get out of this continual denigration? If they truly believe we are such a basket case, why don’t they leave and make a better life for themselves elsewhere.
Yeah, I know. They are being well rewarded for their lies in the centuries-old propaganda campaign by Westminster to keep some of us believing that we cannot possibly survive as an independent nation, desperately dependent on the generosity of our benefactors on the banks of the Thames.
The depressing part of this for me is that a substantial number of our citizens are still taken in by the rubbish thrown at them on a daily basis by the M.S.M. I say that from almost daily canvassing sessions for the upcoming council elections, and while we are still making progress, sometimes it seems dreadfully slow.
Just what it will take to convince even more of our people that we can choose a better way I don’t know, maybe a catastrophic Brexit. Let’s hope we are not too late.
Way back when I did my first offshore survival 1998 or so), one of the guys was from a seismic survey vessel.
They had just completed a survey around the Rockall basin, and at the time were surveying off the West coast of Ireland. Very good results were as much as he would say.
The UK are atrociously bad at oil and gas. Norway will have a vessel survey the acreage for as much as 18 months before releasing the data for the licences. In other words, they know exactly what is going up for grabs beforehand.
Statoil was founded in the 1970’s after the US oil companies walked out of a kick off meeting with the Norwegians. Basically it was our way or not at all – the Norwegians refused to bow to their blackmail so off the US companies went.
When the US companies came back 7 days later prepared to meet half way, the Norwegians declined and proceeded to head hunt the brightest and the best to set up Statoil. The rest is history as they say.
The original companies in the North Sea raped and pillaged the oil as quickly as they could. All the gas was flared, extraction at the max with not enough water injection to keep the resevoir pressure up left the production rates dropping too quickly meaning that the total recovery over time was sacrificed for a quick profit.
Contrast the demise of Brent and Forties to Valhall in Norway. Valhall was producing for 25 years, and BP put a new platform in 5 years ago to extend the field for another 40 years !
The same BP who wrecked Forties, Miller etc were forced by a responsible government to maximise for the long term. The same BP who sat on Clair & Clair Ridge licences for 20 years would have been forced to hand the licence back after 7 years if they had not produced under Norwegian rules.
Shell in Corrib have two 36″ gas lines going back to shore fir just 1 gas field off the Donegal coast. 1 gas field my arse. That is the initial pipelines fir the future developments out there.
In fact, the first thing you noticed when going offshore Norway was gas flares – or should I say the lack of it. They flare practically zero.
The next big one in my uneducated mind is porcupine basin, SW of Ireland. Look at the undersea delta in Google maps, and compare it to Nigeria or Egypt. This delta is 2 times the size of these.
BBC Parliament channel advertises the Scottish Parliament from 2pm but stays with the obviously much more important issue of the price of a pint in English pubs with about a dozen MPs present
Scotlands relevance is once again irrelevant
Shetland would only have 12 miles of coastal waters. Needs the nearest land mass for supplies. Sullom Voe can be moved. It is becoming redundant. Enormous bag vessels are now bring used to extract the Oil and new pipe lines are being established. Different methods of extraction.
Shetland was part of Denmark. It came to be part of Scotland as a dowry when a Danish princess was betrothed to a Scottish King. James 1V in the seventeen century. There are coins from that period in the Scottish Museum, Edinburgh. .
@Alex Beveridge
Believe me Alex, I include the proud Scot buts in the political class generalisation.
They knew the facts well enough. They all knew and let it happen anyway because it suited their political agenda and ideology.
The Scottish debate will be later 4 – 5pm
Scottish debate on BBC parly channel – SKy.
schrodingers cat @ 12.59pm
You stated: “the formation west of shetland is devonian, high porosity but low permeability, the hurricane assets are naturally fractured matrix” and “because devonian rock is the oldest rock, upon which life once roamed, it is the oldest rock that can possibly contain oil”.
I don’t want to get too ‘nerdy’ here but I think there is potential to confuse here.
According to this 2015 source (link to devex-conference.org ), Hurricane’s Lancaster Field has its oil held within a network of natural fractures within what are very, very old (Precambrian) rocks viz. ‘Lewisian Basement”. These hard, crystalline rocks have a complex history and can be from c. 1.2 up to 3 billion years old. This is a very different oil reservoir from the fields in the North Sea where for the most part the oil is held dispersed through microscopic pores between the grains of sedimentary rocks – and the Lancaster reservoir is very much older and of very different character from the Devonian you mentioned.
However, notably, the source of the oil is reckoned to be the Jurassic Kimmeridge Clay (c. 150 million years old), i.e. the same organic rich shales that act as the source for most of the oil in the North Sea (link to sp.lyellcollection.org ).
The geological structure in the area of the Lancaster Field has permitted the oil generated in the relatively young Kimmeridge Clay to migrate into the network of fractures in the very much older Lewisian Basement.
Its a fascinating, different set of geological circumstances – a very different ‘play’ – which makes it very exciting for future exploration and appraisal in the Atlantic Margin oil province.
Debate on now
Davidson kicks off with a bare faced lie then manages to go downhill from there.
It’s telling how little interest the UK pays to N Eire crisis. They go mental whenever Scottish indi is mentioned. N Eire has nothing that the UK wants or needs. Whilst Scotland has everything they need to survive in their little Brexit island.
They are not going to let us go without a fight. After indi the years of lies will be exposed. They have been lying to the Scots for years and the sad part is that some people still don’t see it. They stab us in the back and then throw bandages over the wall! That’s the reality of caring and sharing UK style.
Davidson tells the First Minister of Scotland to sit down.
That’s yer fucking Tory respect for the Top office of Scotland right there after avoiding the question posed to her by the FM.
Jesus this is not going to be a debate for the faint hearted.
Davidson is going off the Heid. Arrogant, bossy, conceited ignoramous. The same as her mate May.
“Davidson is going off the Heid.”
She should know better…
link to imgur.com
The bitterness sure shines through when Tories are not going to get their own way huh ?
Davidson behaving like a petulant brat.
Aww …”you lost, get over it” springs to mind…!
What a bitch!
Have just phoned Tory HQ in Edinburgh to say that due to her performance and repeated ‘people don’t want a ref’ that I do want one.
0131 524 0030 if you want to phone, please.
The reason I remember the age of Lewisian gneiss is because at one point in the 1980’s (might have been 70’s) it was internationally recognised as the first rocks to form on earth.
I was living there at the time & told my friend about it – he wasn’t much interested in news & stuff.
His response?
“FFS nobody tell the Wee Frees about this or we’ll never hear the end of it!” 🙂
Lewis as the garden of eden. Lucky it was sub-tropical back then eh? 🙂
@Craig
============
I don’t get it myself. Are people HAPPY to be subsidy junkies?? (I know, we aren’t but if they believe we are on hand outs from England why are they happy with that?) Don’t they want to stand on their own feet.
Of course that isn’t the real reason for many of them. They are stuck in a mind-set which doesn’t really accord with the real world but rather than give up on their belief they accept any nonsensical argument which appears to justify it.
The SNP must use this huge oil find to ram down the throats of the Unionist parties who continue to rubbish Scotland`s financial viability. We must come out fighting as of now and remove the kid gloves as i feel we have been too passive and now need to be more passionate and assertive with our message.
There are Governments all over the world watching this debate with absolute envy and wishful thinking.
Each and everyone of them wishing that their opposition could be this utterly stupid and devoid of convincing argument.
Borg Queen Ruth and Poundshop Ruth is the dream opposition team any Government anywhere could only hope to sit opposite.
Not watching the debate [!] but if Davidson is losing the heid in desperation then it’s a good sign as far as I’m concerned.
Findlay stands up does his I’m a total Dickhead thingy and sits down again.
Easy money.
That whole shiny beads thing yesterday was another Tory look over there trick,must be a huge field they sent up the PM this time to run the distraction play through the media.
How do you know Scotland just found another oil field – simple a high ranking English tory comes to offer shiny beads and preach about the benevolence of British nationalist colonialism eh i mean unionism no i was right the first time i reckon.
Don’t know if this has already been posted but worth a look.
Not a lot new (to folks here) but good to see a lot of arguments brought together in a coherent form.
link to commonspace.scot
“Davidson tells the First Minister of Scotland to sit down.”
Had Davidson been knocked flat on her arse when she asked that?
This ain’t no debate, it is a unionist hate fest.
Horribly wee bitter fucking no-marks, stamping their feet and scweeming…!
Re Main Article on the Lancaster Field.
BBC Scotland TV News last night gave it 21 seconds of coverage.
Unionists refusing interventions so that they get to spout their drivel unchallenged.
Making a complete arse of themselves.
Liz Rannoch
Phoned! Had a rant…feeling better now.
geeo
This isn’t a debate they can talk out, there will be a vote at the end, so truly bizarre behaviour.
Was there an idiot epidemic overnight that no one mentioned?
I ask because there appears to be no shortage of idiotic rants so far from both Conservative and Labour benches in Holyrood.
Ms Davidson has not only forgotten herself, but has gone from zero to berzie in record time and as for Labour’s ‘we accept Brexit’?!?!
Well spookily, a fair few of us, that being the majority in Scotland, DON’T. Nor do we have to fucking meekly accept brexit. We didn’t vote for it. We didn’t ask for it and if we want to avoid it, we bloody well can.
Dear God. What kind of politician, who claims to want to represent the people of a nation, wilts in the face of someone dragging them to a fate they didn’t vote for?
Is that it? The UK right or wrong? No fighting for the vote and mandate of your constituents, your fellow Scots?
I can see the Conservatives acting like the utter bastirts they’ve always been and they’re positively looking forward to EMPIRE 2.0 (the return of the Sith), but FFS that Labour should go out like this?
Mundell admits people who do not agree with him voted for him. 3rd rate rejects? His constituents voted to stay in the EU but he is not being conceited or misrepresentative etc by voting against it.
Following that despicable woman Suzanne Evans last night who was on at Alex Salmond about exactly the fact that Scotland would be worse off that Greece!!
This is all the more motivation to stick it to them with comment such as this. They want to hold Scotland down and back from ever thinking it can be anything other than Westminster’s servant. They’ve got it so wrong.
O/T
WTF is this bat shit nonsense Blair McDougallis spouting in twitter about pensions again??
UK gov will renage on previous payments ??
Is he mental ? Markets would hammer uk if this gains traction
@Derek fae Yell
“But: the situation for an ostensibly fully independent Shetland is less clear cut. Westminster will try to exploit that.”
It is fairly clear cut. The UNCLOS position would be that Shetland is on the Scottish Continental Shelf and that therefore the mineral rights outside its 12 mile limit would be Scottish.
A ruling such as that was placed on the hypothetical scenario of Svalbard, an island many times the area of Shetland and much further away from the Norwegian mainland than Shetland is from the Scottish mainland, were it to declare independence from Norway.
@ Meg merrilees 3.32
Braw – mine was a bit of a rant too, poor woman!
C’mon the rest o yous! 0131 524 0030 Tell them you want (or need/demand) another ref.
Och,Iam stopping to watch the debate, it is as others have said it is a hate fest by the Yoons,they are a disgrace to Scotland.
This will be watched all over the place, they know that.
But nevertheless they show their hate for Scottish democracy only interested in anti SNP stuff, Kelly was a cracker.
So I will now shut off, I have had enough, will come back nearer the vote before 5pm.
If ever I have witnessed someone fighting for credibility and indeed their very survival then this is it. They are relying on emotion rather than logic to debate.
Labour are fighting because they will never again gain power over the UK if they lose Scotland permanently.
The Tories are fighting because they know England is heading down the plughole without a United Kingdom.
Rennie ? Well it’s Rennie. Nuffield said.
Not one of them has put Scotland first unless it is to serve England and English interests.
All have much to lose from Scotland being independent and it is really beginning to show. To hell with them
Just for (t)Ruthless…
link to imgur.com
Seeing a load of mince being posted about Shetland Independence.
Consider this.
The whole of Scotland is a Parliamentary Democracy. “INCLUDING SHETLAND” therefore ANY AND ALL constitutional questions regarding any part of Scotland can only be determined within the context of that Parliamentary Democracy. That puts any and all decisions regarding any constitutional question within and Indy Scotland within the jurisdiction of the Scottish Parliament.
Shetland seeking a constitutional Independence from the Scottish Parliament must therefore seek to gain a majority of support for that proposal within the Scottish Parliament to hold a National wide referendum on the issue.
Any other wishful thinking scenario is nothing but UDI and would be nothing short of insurrection.
OK?
stewartb
thx 4 that, i worked on the clare and shiehallion fields when they 1st came online, i assumed the hurricane assets were the same matrix, i’m not a geologist or reservoir engineer, eline, well testing, wellservices and completions are my area
but the fact that the new discoveries are from different formation types is even better news, and no, i dont think discussions like this are nerdy, this is exactly the sort of info yessers need when confronted by yoons arguing the oil is finished.
thx again for the update
The important thing to note about this Indyref debate is the fact that it is divided straight down party lines.
No dissenters nobody standing up within their own party to talk a different point of view.
Whats also telling is the fact that these party lines are divided between parties who are Scottish and parties who are English.
Just saying.
Was out so missed the tank rant can someone get a link.
Don’t know about you guys But I’m am sick to death of hearing the “get on with the day job” soundbite it’s patronizing & condescending and it’s getting on my fucking nerves
Graeme
re EFTA
it has been pointed out by many, salmond and nicola to name but a few, that the main damage from brexit lies, NOT from the fact we are leaving the EU, but from the loss of access to the single market. ie, the European Economic Area, EEA
it is the loss of this eea access which will damage the uk economy, it is access to eea which will be the bedrock of the indyref2 campaign, it is under eea rules that countries in EFTA are exempt from the CFP and the CAP
EFTA (all 4 countries) have already agreed an indy scotland can join ,they have also said the uk cant 🙂 farage will be spewing if yes2 campaign for the norway option, that was his prefered outcome.
but yes, EFTA/EEA would be a huge hit with shetlands, fishermen and farmers, for the reasons already mentioned.
an article on wos about norways approach to replacing eu subsidies to farmers and fishermen would be useful, i believe they pay the eu less because of the lack of subsidies coming back from the eu in this area
I’ve listened to enough of these non-elected anti-Scotland speakers in this debate. They are in the SCOTTISH parliament ,
therefore they SHOULD be working for a better fairer Scotland.
Did I miss a point-of-order of Tank Commander being reprimanded
for her dismissal of the FM?
This debate is being viewed by a lot of people who will see all these wasters as they truly are not as they are edited to be by the EBC
Re the Daily Heil and Sarah Vine (journalist) I use the time loosely. Isn’t vine married to some guy called Gove? Impartiality all round.
Glad the paper has been roundly condemned.
@Scott
I missed it too so someone please give a link.
I did see the SNP girl who quoted a gaelic poem. It would be a useful compare and contrast so can we have a link also.
What is her name?
Keep the faith WoSers
Graeme ,with you on that ,though it clearly demonstrates a lack of imagination and a lack of any awareness that there are those more than capable of multi tasking – something at which the Lib/Lab/Con Party fail spectacularly.
I don’t think my stomach could stand watching the empty headed harridans insulting our First Minister and the people of Scotland.
Never thought that the loudest shouter was a winner and pantomime laughter of the slap my thighs variety just irritates , particularly when over played in serious debate.
The list of truths told by BT can now fit neatly on the back
of a fag packet.
I have it down to 1,cameron… “of course Scotland can be a successful independant country!”…the end.
I wish Ross Greer was in the SNP.
SNP getting on with the ‘day job’:
link to snp.org
Ross Greer….brilliant speech.
Clear concise, educated.
Everything these hateful unionists are not.
Short clip of ‘sit down’ comment from Davison
link to twitter.com
Tank driver tells FM to “Sit down!”
link to twitter.com
And…
link to imgur.com
My anger at listening to opposition MSPs in today’s Holyrood debate – especially Ruth Davidson but most especially James Kelly and his BLiS pals – has just slowly transformed to a kind of sadness for our country that these MSPs, whatever their views on any particular policy, have such a negative, such a dismissive, such a disrespectful view of Scotland and the rights, needs and aspirations of its people.
Rather than today providing a serious, uplifting, well-argued debate about Scotland’s democracy and constitution, it has been lowered by the opposition to be about delivering the ‘cleverest’ cheap shot. And its been about telling the people of Scotland to ‘sit down’ and take whatever Westminster decides, based on England’s democratic will, to give you.
Well that attitude will not win, but only inspire Yessers to greater effort!
Sic a parcel of rogues! Long since time for a new version of an old song to be written.
To me Davidson’s ‘sit down’ was a set up for the cameras.
@Robert Kerr
link to twitter.com
The unionist parties have no vision or imagination for Scotland. In stark contrast to the many passionate voices in the Greens and the SNP.
I’m going to describe the former as ‘corkscrews’ as they are twisting the facts so much it is unbelievable.
As many of you acknowledge they should ALL be standing up for the people of Scotland.
Jack Murphy – it was actually only 17 seconds of airtime. From second story at lunchtime and an outside broadcast in Aberdeen to fourth story and 17 seconds for their peak teatime audience.
Oh that’s nice the Yoon Presiding Officer in the Scottish Parliament ends the Indyref debate by allowing 2 Yoon rants to finish back to back.
And it had to be No surrender Murdo harping on about online abuse in spite of his own provocative contributions.
#Cant stand fucking Tories
Was it ever not thus about plundering other countries?
A plug for ‘Viceroy’s House’. See it and you will have it confirmed that Westminster have been at it for a long time, and will use anyone to get what they want.
But we already know that.
What scares me most watching events at Holyrood is the calibre, or lack thereof, of Labour and Tory (spot the difference…) MSPs.
I mean, it’s not as though they have a 1st Team playing elsewhere, and that’s their best?
God help them, if She can…
Murdo Fraser in an alternate universe there…
Respect showing for parliament there. Tories embarrassing themselves as the world watches.
Oh please let the “Queens eleven” rant on more.
He’s insulted everyone other than white tories I think?
Conan the Librarian says:
Murdo Fraser in an alternate universe there…
———————–
the air is definately thinner there
‘Wee Black Book – The Movie’
link to youtube.com
It’s strange experience watching Labour destroy it’s credibility, not only here, but internationally.
How can they go to meetings across Europe and the world espousing democracy and social justice when they will abandone their own constituents to this Tory Government, probably the most right wing in our history.
Ah seen it wie ma ain ein Kezia pressed the button
Kezia is managing to remember to press her button.
Bailed out at Joanna Lamont.
If the Unionists had their way there would be no Scotland left. Scotland would be empty. The Scottish population only went up after Devolution since the Union 1707. Westminster centralist economic policies were depopulating Scotland.
There is every possibility in the secrecy of the Ballot that the some the diehard unionist vote for Independence. It would not be surprising.
Live
http://www.scottishparliament.tv
motion passed
yes 69
no 59
indyref2 campaign has started
eu citizens and 16/17 year olds included in electorate
one of my concerns that the PO would block this vote is gone, good
Labour just died in Scotland.
It’s done. Happy, happy happy. Happiest for the last two years. A wee jig.
These so-called ‘newspapers’ and their so-called ‘journalists’ are just the dirty, filthy scum on the top of the stagnant cesspit of UKOK Unionism.
The way to get rid of that scum is by the simple act of voting Yes in IndyRef2.
The cesspit will then be cast adrift and out of Scots’ lives once and for all.
Its smell may linger for a while, but the fresh air of independence will soon do away with that.
“Ah seen it wie ma ain ein Kezia pressed the button.”
You sure, Ronnie?
link to imgur.com
Not watched todays shenanigans at Holyrood but going on what I am reading, the yoons have been obviously working to portray the Scottish parliament as incapable of anything other than backstabbing, back biting, accept what your masters in the big english parly tells you!
The “sit down” from shouty mouthy bullying mama ruthie, was an absolute freaking disgrace. Did the PO not call her out on that and tell her to sit down! Imagine if Alex Salmond told T.Mayhem to sit down at the HoCs!
It was obvioulsly orchestrated, and planned and ruthie has been briefed to go into attack mode of our democratucally elected First Minister. The aim? To undermine the SNP, to put down Nicola Sturgeon in public, to deliberately raise hackles and create tension and divide where non exists, except in the yoons’ nasty little minds and what comes out of their sewer mouths.
My gut feeling, yes, like the yoons I am going on my emotions, is that the PM, has in some way threatened N.Sturgeon, the Scottish parliament and possibly Scotland itself. I have studied bulllying tactics, my son was seriously bullied at school, you can spot them a mile off. They never work alone.
Let’s see what transpires today.
Thanks Nana,
Kate Forbes.
Formidable young woman!
link to kateforbes.scot
Indeed a compare and contrast exercise for the Scottish Parliament.
New Scottish Independence Referendum starts now, and possibly a new constitutional crisis.
Good days work!
Incredible, Labour voting against the right of EU citizens to have a vote in a Referendum.
As i said they really have blown their international reputation out of the water, after all their pro-EU rhetoric. Goes equally for the LibDems.
:-). 🙂 🙂
… and cut to Fluffy to tell us they’re not going to respond.
Back in your box Jocks; don’t care what your wee pretend parliament says.
Aye OK then.
Derk fae Yell
Apologies, I just spent a couple of hours getting up to date and it seems that more recent moves re Svalbard have seen renewed speculation that Svalbard might be entitled to its own continental shelf, lead predictably, by Brit academics.
Your point is well made re Shetland.
It was pleasing to see that the debate was shown on The Parliament Ch.
However, unfortunately the rest of The UK was exposed to the ‘scintillating wit and wisdom’ of James Kelly which can’t have done the reputation of Holyrood much good.
Labour, LibDems, the wretched hypocrites stand with the Tories.
WM has known about the huge potential oil reserves west of Shetland since 2012, but it has been deliberately kept out of the news. (can’t think why. :)). Following a year long MSM bombardment, about the low oil price and the dire state of the Scottish economy, WM has probably decided that now is as good a time as any, to let the cat out of the bag. After all, a fierce indy campaign has barely begun, and heaven forbid, the oil price may rise again!
The yoons are obviously in a state of blind panic now. They don’t have a clue what they are doing, or can do, and are terrified of their own shadow. My heart bleeds. 🙂
Did any of the Labour ptomaine vote for the Scottish people’s voice to be heard?
Did an ursine creature just excrete in its habitat?
“Severin maths” in the grauniad again.
We got beaten 55-44 last time 🙂
Tick tock sevvy, tick tock…
Davidson says, ‘the Scottish people have had enough’.They have had enough of the Tories,
Interesting BBC Reporting Scotland trial runs ,within minutes of vote, with Tory/Labour line about desire for second referendum. BBC Scotland wants to ignore Scot Parliament with mandate for ref. Don’t remember them questioning the EU ref when proposed by party with 37% of the vote.
The unionist strategy is clear, try and create division and undermine FM. Presumably with the intention that WM will need to take control of Holyrood as Scot Gov is unstable. They probably believe the resources are worth the risk.
Brian , that may be true but the Tank Strider blew any thoughts of respect out of the water.
Quite frankly the ill mannered young woman should be made to apologise for her moronic behaviour.
I really dislike smart arsed f^ckwits.
YES, YES, YES.
Altogether Ron Greer had quite a good speech and I’d say he seems to be starting to win more experience and self-confidence. Not bad.
Mad Murdo was, dare I say it, completely off his rocker. Spitting out blood, feathers, lies, insults and in general doing his best to drag the Tories even further down into the swamp that breeds them. The Tories were the day’s big losers.
J. Swinney, staid, solid, too much the “Gentleman” but OK.
I believe there were also one or two others there as well…!?
59 against ScotRef by the English parties, the pro-unionists,libdems,labour,toryukip.
they just hate Scotland. Is there any other country which allows nation hating representatives in their Parliament?
I see Lady Mone tempted to run for FM. Someone have a word and tell her how it works. Hasn’t she left the country?
This doesn’t surprise me in the least. A family member did the geo core sampling for much of that area just before last indy Ref and as I repeatedly told the unionists in 2014, she recorded it as LOADS OF IT, High grade and easily obtained. But nah, nah… they wouldn’t have it! So now they have official confirmation of what I said.
But still getting sniggering little unionists arguing that the prices are so low, it’s not worth anything! HUH? As I reply – do they seriously believe that the oil companies will drill etc. if it’s not worth diddly?? No way Jose! They’re in it for the profits!! If they’re drilling for it, THEY ARE MAKING MONEY OUT OF IT!! That quietens one unionist… just to have another one on another tweet/post say… “Scotland is an economic basketcase. The Oil isn’t worth spit.” And so it goes…
Oh dear… *sigh*… in that case, we’ll just take our oil home then and stop playing with you, England. 🙂
On the Shetland stuff – doesn’t really matter one way or another.
Worst case ScotGov say no pipelines lads, no transit of oil via bulk carriers in Scots waters. Norway will backup the no bulk carriers part (their arctic fishing is through the roof now!) and that leaves them screwed.
The Shetland nonsense doesn’t fly any which way they try.
Does anyone know how long it takes for these debates to reach the Holyrood TV archive?
I found the 1st two parts but no luck finding today’s debate
1.
link to j.tinyurl.com
2.
link to j.tinyurl.com
I much prefer watching a recording rather than a live debate due to the fast forward facility.
Hamish100 says:
28 March, 2017 at 4:23 pm
Hamish, was it not Sarah who pushed Micheal to stab Johnson in the back re Tory leadership election….now what is that saying ‘Behind every successful man there is a strong woman’…..I think in the Gove’s case the saying could be rewritten ‘Behind very wimp there is an ambitious bitch’…..if ‘bitch’ seems to some, a disrespectful and sexist term then I strongly feel those who object know nothing…nada…zilch.. of the lady in question via her journalistic or rather her churnalistic efforts via the rag she churns out shit for.
Chick McGregor. Thanks. Would appreciate any info on the Svalbard case. You’ll find me on fb
Now on to Brexit. I have to say that the EU team versus the UK team looks like a mis-match with the EU team set to dominate and end with a comfortable victory. UK team know it and not looking forward to a 2 year drubbing and humiliation.
Me, I can’t wait.
I see the BBC webshite has allowed comments on their announcement that ScotParl backs referendum vote. Cue a torrent of insults, threats and lies from UK-wide nawbags, loony Yoons, keyboard kippers…
Ruth Davidson screeching at The First Minister of Scotland to “SIT DOWN!” basically summed up the 300 years of our union with England,
Ruth is a nasty piece of work,has all the characteristics of the sociopath.
Well, the next move is down to Mrs May. Will she risk it? She may well believe that the information she gets from Ruthin is fact and act accordingly. This would be a monumental mistake,
Given that her negotiations with the EU kick off tomorrow she has absolutely no guarantee that Scottish resources are up for discussion. She may take the view they are, but I do not believe other countries will put a degree of certainty on that.
Problems for the UK.
I think she will try to refuse but this will only add fuel to the independence side of the debate.
link to tinyurl.com
Link to Holyrood TV archive of debates held in the chamber.
I’m hoping today’s debate will appear soon.
If anyone is bored they could refresh this link to see when it appears that is if you think I’m looking in the right place.
PS. It’s going to be a long wait till ScotRef. I’m going to need to find a ‘job’ in the Independence Campaign.
So in the spirit of goodwill and all things nice, is that war then
Michelle Mone for FM? I say let her go for it, the comedy value alone would be wonderful
Looks like the Labour party are going to be applying for the bin jobs the real bin guys are claiming they’re being sacked from but no really
And on to a two party Scotland with the SNP massively dominant all the time and the Tories get to keep about 18 MSPs with the Greens still popping up now and again with about 10
Oooh and 2 Liberal Dismalcraps
I would suggest Theresa May bites the bullet and gives in on this one before the shit hits the fan
I volunteer for border duty if there’s sweeties in it
an chips an mibbees ginger
Manandboy5.27pm. Yes, any nation or people that had an ounce of self respect for themselves, would have chased these carpet baggers out of their country long ago. But then again proudscot buts don’t do self respect. Only servility.
I read somewhere that Lesley Riddoch was disappointed with the first day’s debate because it lacked vision.
I hope she saw both Ben MacPherson and Kate Forbes deliver on the vision thing. To my mind both of them raised the whole tenor of the proceedings.
I also liked John Swinney’s winding up. It was professional and relevant, making reference to actual turning points in the debate, irrespective of party.
Just another thought. It is clear that the Tory tactic is to create the meme that the people of Scotland don’t want a referendum. It will be interesting to see whether that stands up in the light of further opinion polls.
In the debate they went one better by declaring that Ruthie tops Nicola in popularity and even that Theresa May is now more popular than Nicola. Deluded or what!
Today is a great day for Scotland and the beginning of the end for yoondom.
Opinion polls bill? I think we are all wise as to how they work out.
I think London just showed their hand:
‘What Mundell said about how London will block Scottish independence referendum until early 2020s
This is what David Mundell, the Scottish secretary, told the BBC.
We won’t be entering into any negotiations at all until the Brexit process is complete. Now is the time for the Scottish government to come together with the UK government, work together to get the best possible deal for the UK, and that will mean for Scotland, as we leave the EU.
The key phrase is “until the Brexit process is complete”.
Mundell was then asked if that meant until the UK had left the EU.
And this is where he significantly toughened London’s stance. He said “until the Brexit process is complete” did not just mean until the UK leaves the EU (by March 2019). He said it meant until any transitional period was over too. Given that most estimates about the likely length of a transitional period are from two to five years, that means he is ruling out talks about a second referendum until the early 2020s.’
Hmmm…the real battle has just commenced.
All this from Guardian this past few moments
Fuller summary:
‘David Mundell, the Scottish secretary, has indicated that the UK government will block a Scottish independence referendum until the early 2020s. (See 5.45pm.) He was speaking after the Scottish parliament voted for an SNP motion telling Nicola Sturgeon to open talks with London about holding one. The motion was passed by 69 votes to 59 votes. Mundell’s comments go significantly further than what Theresa May has said about this in the past, because she only appeared to firmly rule out a referendum before March 2019.
The Scottish Conservatives have claimed that Sturgeon’s decision to call a referendum has backfired on her. Speaking in the debate the Conservative MSP Murdo Fraser said Sturgeon expected that she would gain popularity in Scotland when May refused her request for a second referendum. He went on:
Well, there has indeed been a surge in support. But it’s not a surge in support for independence. But it’s a surge in support for Theresa May. Because Nicola Sturgeon has achieved something remarkable for an SNP politician and the first minister of Scotland. She has boosted the popularity of a Conservative prime minister with the people of Scotland. She has created the situation where the first minister is not just less popular than Ruth Davidson. She is now less popular than Theresa May with the people of Scotland. (See 5.03pm for the figures.)
Sturgeon has said that, if London refuses to engage in talks on a second referendum, she will return to the Scottish parliament after the Easter recess “to set out the steps the Scottish government will take to progress the will of parliament”
This is where we are. Bring it fucking on.
Slightly O/T
Even with this oil find, the UK pound is going to go lower towards parity with the dollar, or lower, increasing import costs. Nothing can stop that but I guess this will mitigate things.
However if Scotland leaves the UK the pound will likely tank. If we peg to the pound the Scottish balance of trade will then in theory help the pound but it will still tank.
The question is, is that good thing? We could peg to dollar, Euro, or free float our own currency. In the interests of stability, pegging to the dollar may be better in the short term….
It seems that Westminster actually believes the dodgy polling about people in Scotland supposedly not wanting a referendum and holding May in higher esteem than the FM.
This britnat arrogance and ignorance can only benefit the independence movement in Scotland.