The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Under the Ridge

Posted on March 28, 2017 by

One of the favourite sneering Unionist memes of the independence referendum was the mocking dismissal of claims by some Yes supporters that there might be “secret oil fields” in a location off the west of Shetland known as Clair Ridge.

So amused were the Unionists by this notion that they were still sniggering about it regularly years after the referendum, right up to earlier this month.

Curiously, they’ve gone a little quieter in recent days.

The potential existence of a large untapped field was discussed back in the summer of 2014 in a story by journalist Michael Gray published by Business For Scotland:

The piece specifically identified the supposed area as the small “Lancaster” field owned by Hurricane Energy. Which by a remarkable coincidence is the exact location of what today’s Daily Record describes as the “largest UK find of the century”.

“Exploration specialists Hurricane Energy said up to one billion barrels of oil could lie in the untapped Greater Lancaster area, 60 miles west of Shetland. The discovery is larger than finds in recent years, which have been about 25 million barrels.”

(“Larger” is quite a feat of understatement there. It’s about 40 times larger.)

The amount of oil recoverable from the field is yet to be definitively established. But it’s just one tiny speck in Scotland’s oceans. That might be worth keeping in mind the next time the No camp howls its mockery over any suggestion that Scotland might not be the hopeless economic basket case they desperately need to present it as.

We’ll say no more than that.

Print Friendly

    2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 28 03 17 10:56

      Under the Ridge | speymouth

    2. 28 03 17 14:01

      Leave it in the ground. – Fear Is Worse Than Fighting

    502 to “Under the Ridge”

    1. Andrew Morton says:

      I have been regularly asking Blair McDougall for comment about this over the last few weeks. He has been strangely silent on the matter.

    2. bobajock says:

      Thing that interested me was from my brother who knew of the level of interest up there due to the huge increase in investment in some very heavy engineering ‘near the Shetlands’.

      This was 3 years ago. A lot of people knew, but the press just would not cover it.

      Odd time to pick now eh?

    3. Macart says:

      Ayup, remember it well and a fair few arguments with the more sneery types besides.

      Would it be considered very shallow if we said ‘TOLD YOU SO’? 🙂

    4. Wonder who decked Corrie Ken? Did Nicola stick the heid oan him?

    5. Betty Boop says:

      But, Jim Murphy said… I recall arguing with Jimbo about the licences granted for west of Shetland as he stood on his crate. When I say “arguing”, he didn’t answer and held on to his microphone for dear life as he said any oil there was irrecoverable. The Yes campaign were telling lies about everything, oil, NHS, etc., etc.

      They don’t even blush about it.

    6. Alwi says:

      Does that not mean we will be even poorer now?

    7. scotspine says:

      Mike Gapes? I bet he does, as wide as he can for Westminster.

    8. haggistrap says:

      There is much more to this story than BBC reporting…

      Remember David Camerons mysterious trip to the Shetland isles in 2014 before the last referendum 😉 At the time I looked deeper at what he was up to – and may have been lucky enough to buy some HUR shares when they were 15p…

      The BBC article misses out some key facts from the “story”

      1) 1 Billion is likely to be the current 1P (proven reserve figure) when the full report is issued next week. However once further tests are completed it is suggested the Halifax -Lancaster basin could be as big as 3-4 billion barrels.

      2) HUR also have a 2nd elephant discovery (Lincoln-Warwick). Between the two of them this could be the largest UK discovery ever (even bigger than Brent!). Interestingly the Norwegians also discovered their larger ever field just 5-10 years ago as well (Jan Svendrup).

      3) These are fractured basement reservoirs. Previously these weren’t exploited in the north sea as traditional sandstone was easier to exploit. However they have been drilled all over the globe from Vietnam to China . Dr Trice believes that if these basement fields are successful the entire Rona ridge (which runs from Shetland -> Ireland) could contain oil. For this very reason HUR, who are basement oil specialists, were awarded special out of round license application for this drill 6 months ago. Interestingly the rest of the blocks were sold off last week to Shell / BP / CONNOC.

      Hurricane are a tiny company. Just 8 or 10 people – their founder (Dr Trice) is world leading specialist in “basement oil”. I imagine his motivation is to prove this type of reservoir can work in UK waters (as the majors had previously been skeptical). HUR secured equity funding in June which allowed them to rent state of art rig and drill 5 wells WoS over winter-time : however I think time scale prevented full appraisal. The only question that seems to remain now is exactly how big…

    9. Alt Clut says:

      Perfect timing.

      As we all know Indy Scotland will, legally, have no economic deficit. The matter will be for negotiation. The new discoveries are a tremendous asset over decades. The UK government can’t start to drain it away from us for some years by which time we can be away from them.

      Prepare for the howling rage !

    10. Auld Rock says:

      Stu, I must point out that the presence of possibly huge reserves West of Shetland in what is called the Atlantic Margin were first brought to everyone’s attention by Bill “Big Mac” McLaughlin back in 2012/13.

      Just to remind everyone that this potential extends from Greenland, West of Scotland and Ireland right down to West Africa. As far as Scotland is concerned it also includes confirmed deposits off Arran and potential deposits in the Solway and other estuaries as well.

      Maybe people will start listening to Big Mac as he’s getting tired of banging his drum.

      Auld Rock

    11. Lenny Hartley says:

      And don’t forget the Clyde I’ll repeat what I said years ago, I worked with a guy who was an engineer on the seismic ships off Arran, he told me that the seismic data pointed to a substantial potential for oil and gas in the clyde South of Arran and maybe In some other areas.
      We are being denied the benefits this would bring to the local community and Scotland in general due to the UK’s obsession of illegal weapons of mass destruction, let’s trade bombs for barrels.

    12. Bob Mack says:

      Well the UK has the same negative wage growth as Greece whilst every other European nation is showing positive wage growth.

      This story is the whole crux of the matter. We know for a fact that in terms of energy and fossil fuel production (gas and oil) that Scotland has an abundance of riches. The West Coast has not supposedly been even looked at as yet.

      We must be the only nation in the world who have good fishing grounds, agriculture and livestock in abundance added to tourist friendly beautiful landscape and scenery and yet somehow we are portrayed as being the beggars of these islands.

      It is utterly inconceivable that a population of 5 million could not exist and indeed thrive on our natural wealth in every facet of human existence.

      What it does teach us is to have belief in ourselves. There are many who would lie swindle and cheat the Scottish people out of what is rightfully their own.

      As for the likes of Sir Ian Wood who has insider knowledge of all oil business, he clearly lied stating that oil was finished. I think no explanation of why SIR Ian Wood would do that is required.

    13. John H. says:

      Maybe they’ll move the Scotland/England border to put the new oil field into English waters. That would solve it. As Betty Boop says, they don’t even blush about their lies being found out. They simply move on to the next one. They have an inexhaustable supply of them.

    14. Scott says:

      Sky paper review last night had the two wank*** Kevin Maguire Andrew Pierce as usual rubbishing Scotland Pierce stating we would be worse than Greece no proof but that does not matter to him I have always thought myself easy going but that Pierce gets my blood boiling.

    15. Nana says:

      It will be the wrong sort of oil, only works if the broad shoulders of Westminster are in control. I’m sure someone will be along soon to tell us all about it.

    16. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Greece without the sunshine”? More like Norway with the whisky.

    17. Marcia says:

      No doubt the present UK Government will have to declare all their (our) wealth for the future negotiations to come and their borrowing requirements.

    18. manandboy says:

      Since oil in Scottish Waters was first discovered around 1970, successive UK Governments have kept very very quiet about it. Even after the McCrone report, kept secret for 30 years, news of the oil bounty has not been widely disseminated, (The National continues to refuse to publish it) and every Prime Minister in turn, rarely, if ever, speaks about oil, which is contrary to nature.

      If the oil had been found in English Waters, we would be hearing about it constantly.

      When the books are opened after Independence, it is well nigh inevitable that we will find that the truth about Westminster’s exploitation of the Scottish colony’s oil has been far greater than we have been led to believe.
      Treachery comes easy to Westminster, more so when it is stealing oil.

    19. Desimond says:

      “Massive amount of Oil found in UK waters” mind..God bless you Jackie Bird and the BBC!

      I wonder how much this Oil will cost the British Tax payer in the long run of rebates and cosy directorships down the line?

      We could avoid such costs of course by voting YES but how would impact the very wonderful UK’s standing in the world?

    20. Clydebuilt says:

      This oil is in a geological feature known as the East Atlantic Margin. It extends north from oil field in South of Ireland up west coast of Ireland and West Coast of Scotland…… There’s Oil in the Clyde….Ye Haaaaawwwwwww

    21. Ghillie says:

      So does that put ‘too poor’ to rest?

      Good things come to those who wait.

      And NOW we are ready = )

    22. stewartb says:

      I posted bits of this here some time ago. It shows up just how important “Scotland’s oil” is to the UK economy.

      According to recent data from a UK official source (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/503852/OGA_production_projections_-_February_2016.pdf ):

      UK import dependency at 2016: for oil is 36% and natural gas is 50%.

      Projected UK import dependency at 2025: for oil is 52% and natural gas is 67%.

      Now consider that Scotland is independent and then consider the impact of this on the rUK’s import dependency – both immediately and into the future. Import dependency for oil would rise to nearly 100% as almost all current and future oil production comes from Scotland’s, not rUK territory.  In addition to the impact on imports and its already negative balance of payments, it also brings strategic energy security concerns for the rUK.

      So as the pundits discuss the strength or otherwise of the UK government’s hand in BREXIT negotiations and Unionists point up Scotland’s ‘dependency’ on rUK markets for trade, when we come to consider the strength of a independent Scotland’s hand in trade negotiations with Westminster, our oil assets will be crucial.

      It is at least arguable that the marked increase in rUK import dependency over the long term which will follow from ‘losing’ Scotland’s oil as an indigenous, UK asset will be a more important factor in seeking (desperately) to hang on to Scotland than is the retention of the tax take from a commodity with a volatile market price.

      The emerging importance of the Atlantic Margin oil province (in discussion, we should never just lump this in with the ‘North Sea’) will just add to Westminster’s determination to do all it can – by fair means or foul – to prevent Scottish independence!

    23. Dr Jim says:

      Yeah but is this oil not in Liberal Democrat Independent Shetland waters or do they still want to be British at the moment
      Or perhaps a referendum after Scotland’s Independent so’s they can make up their minds which way to jump from one dogs back to another
      Waiting for Tavish Scott to jump up and down excitedly in Holyrood to tell us more on a new convoluted Liberal Democrat solution to this disasterous boon for the poor downtrodden Islands

    24. Martin says:

      Timing is key, in life and politics as in love and comedy. This is (to borrow a phrase) a “blow for May” as I’m sure the UK govt would have preferred to have this away from the public awareness. Luckily for Scotland’s future HUR did discover this oil boon and announced it publicly (because that will rocket share price and that is the duty of a company, not politicking).

      The fact the media are reporting on it though maybe suggests a slight shift in the tide? Perhaps bexitgeddon and the insufferable arrogance of WM tories is getting to even our most dutiful propagandists?

    25. manandboy says:

      Haggistrap – Oil

      The only question that remains is – to what lengths is Westminster prepared to go in order to continue extraction of oil from the Scotland Colony. May is “determined” to keep the oil flowing to Westminster, sorry, to keep the UK together – a wee slip there.

      Seriously, L&G, one almighty confrontation is coming in the very near future, when Westminster will not be able to hide its true intentions about Scotland’s vast wealth.
      For 5 years, the British Establishment has been waging a propaganda war against Scotland.
      The English believe they ‘own’ us.
      If Scotland votes for Independence, the English will try to take control of the oil, and maybe the country, by force or stealth.

      We are sailing into very dangerous waters indeed.

    26. David Caledonia says:

      People keep talking about oil, all the major manufacturing countries do not rely on oil for the purposes of creating jobs and wealth in their economies, tale america and britain, the arms industry is much bigger than oil, japan has not natural resources, they have to import all their oil and stuff to run the country, is japan poor because it has no oil
      Oil is an extra bonus for any country lucky enough to have it, but it is not a problem if you don’t have it, if scotland was independent we would be one of the richest countries in the world, we could invest some of the oil money for the scottish generations of the future, scotch brings in 4 billion pounds to the treasury, that’s the stuff produced in scotland, you know it costs £2 for a small whisky in scotland, how much does a gallon of fuel cost in scotland and most of the cost of a gallon of fuel goes to the treasury, so, tell the truth, is scotland more than paying its own way, britain is the most taxed country in the world, and scotland pays plenty of tax, from food, insurance, bank charges, vat on everything, tax tax tax, anyone who says scotland does not pay its own way is either a fool or a downright liar

    27. K1 says:

      They’ve lied and lied for years about the oil. The only means by which to stay informed about anything to do with our oil, our economy and the truth about Scotland’s wealth being circumvented by Westeminster and their cronies is to read Wings over Scotland, particularly below the line from commenters who have been aware of the reality for decades.

      On a side note slightly O/T it’s occurred tae me that the reason the ‘hotel’ was picked by Downing Street yesterday was so that May’s conversation could not be ‘bugged’. Can we assume that all matters of ‘state’ are recorded by intelligence services? And could this be why Bute house was not utilised? The Crowne would have had tae be ‘security swept’ in advance would it not.

      May (establishment) didn’t want tae take any chances that a ‘leak’ of the true conversation be made public?

    28. Breeks says:

      What we need now is a 2017 McCrone Report, same format, same parameters, and detailing what an Independent Scotland should AND WILL be doing with this new found resource.

      We have the actual McCrone Report, made manifest in Norway, but beggared beyond belief for Scotland, and we can draw such painful parallels between what Norway has achieved and what Westminster has achieved with exact same resource.

      We need a new McCrone Report, drawn up now, to articulate why such thievery, lies, and incompetence must never be allowed to happen again. Scotland MUST make its resources safe from exploitation. This goes beyond scandal. The fraudsters who allowed this deception and plundering of our collective future to happen should be rotting in a Scottish jail, not prancing about in ermine for 300 pieces of silver a day.

      Do not be influenced by Unionist whines about “Oh no, not oil again”. Aye, we will have this issue addressed, and addressed properly in all it’s underhand treacherous detail.

    29. Free Scotland says:

      Record editor dreams up a subtle ruse to deflect attention away from Scotland’s immense oil wealth: juxtapose a highly interesting diversion to an issue of real importance – “Who decked Corrie Ken?”

    30. Capella says:

      Cameron went to Shetland in July 2014 – the first British PM to visit in 34 years – to pat some Shetland ponies and chat with the locals. If the Telegraph is to be believed:

      https://archive.is/gp03L

      Or, according to the Shetland Times, visit some installations and chat with 100 politicians and industry leaders :

      https://archive.is/38Gdo

      In 2014 Cameron said that UK taxpayers’ support for energy consumers here was “a small example” of how the country’s “broad shoulders” could be an advantage “in every part of the United Kingdom”.

      By 2017 we see energy prices rising, an ominous picture for Shetland, which already has a fuel poverty rate of 53 per cent.

      Merr ile – merr poverty!

    31. Mike says:

      Lets not forget that Oil and Gas exploration down the West Coast of Scotland has been blocked by Westminster on the grounds of National security and unimpeded access for Nuclear submarine deployment.

      At least that was the excuse given.

    32. Liz Rannoch says:

      My hubby used to work on the oil rigs up ’til 2003. He used to talk about the loads of oil to the west of Shetland then. He said everybody on the rigs knew about it. It just couldn’t be got at tho’. Even in recent years he would say ‘just wait, somebody will find a way, their no gonnae leave all that in the ground’.

      Always remember the ‘Kraken’ too. Spoilt for choice!

      http://www.offshore-technology.com/projects/kraken-oil-field-north-sea/

    33. Capella says:

      Of course, to benefit from the oil bonanza, it has to be properly taxed. The Tax Justice Network thinks that we are giving it away. Even subsidising the oil companies to extract it:

      http://www.taxjustice.net/2016/08/25/uks-north-sea-oil-revenues-giving-away/

    34. CapnAndy. says:

      Union Jackie was hilarious last night nearly choking on the news. I didn’t time the news piece but understand it was in the region of 17 seconds. I’m still chuckling. “Big undeveloped oil find off Shetland, nothing to see here, now some sport” … Genius.
      I’m sure there’s more to find up there. Any seismic vessel wandering over the border into Faroese is immediately challenged by Danish warship who ensures they are not collecting data. Any vessel crossing into UK waters is immediately challenged, by err nobody.
      Back in the 80s I was working in Morecombe Bay on supply vessels. Huge discovery off the Isle of Man. Don’t tell me the geology stops at the border.

    35. Fireproofjim says:

      I expect there will be a lot of Unionists saying that the oil is in Shetland waters and Shetland voted to remain part of the UK.
      The problem with that is that it is untrue. If Shetland somehow detached itself from Scotland (highly unlikely) then, by international law, it would be treated as an enclave within Scottish waters. That is to say they would be entitled to a twelve mile marine limit, just like the Channel islands for example.
      There are no oilfields within twelve miles of Shetland.
      The great thing about the huge Rona Ridge fields is that they will be producing oil for fifty to one hundred years. Wealth which will flow to an independent Scotland.
      Scotland is immensely rich. Don’t believe their lies. As someone said “Norway, but with whisky”

    36. Auld Rock says:

      Dr. Jim, Lancaster is in Scottish EZ. Under UN Convention on Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), Shetland’s EZ only extends for 12 miles not 200. Too long and complicated to explain fully here but if you Google, UNCLOS you will find it all explained.

      Auld Rock

      PS El Tavo can get stuffed – in fact best thing for him, LOL

    37. Mike says:

      The broad shoulders of the UK are allowing Oil extraction to proceed TAX FREE in terms of production and extraction.

      PRT has been reduced from 75% to 0% removing a massive revenue income from the UK economy.

      It can be argued that this was a deliberate political move to make NS Oil and Gas extraction look less attractive and profitable.
      We have certainly had more than our fair share of media articles telling us how much Oil revenues have declined over the years without explaining that it was a DELIBERATE IDEOLOGCIAL choice made by consecutive UK Governments.

      A clear betrayal which has public revenue potential removed in favour of Private Enterprise profit.

      Think about it! An Indy Scotland charging 85% PRT on Oil extraction on todays Oil prices will rake in over 23 billion dollars worth of revenues on crude extraction alone.

      Even better an Indy Scotland NATIONALISING the Oil industry will rake in the entire production profit net of extraction costs.

      Its a no brainer.

    38. Onwards says:

      Going by the huge size of the oil column, and reading about how the nearby finds are connected, there is likely much more than a billion barrels there.. it’s probably a multi-billion barrel field, and there are similar structures nearby.

      Oil finds are always treated conservatively as companies and investors need to act with caution.. but this sort of discovery also has political implications.

      It’s the same with BP’s nearby Clair field. The entire ridge likely has the same sort of underlying fractured basement rocks. But the BP chief spoke out against independence, and the company is also likely to be under political pressure to keep accurate reserve figures in that area kept well hidden.

    39. Onwards says:

      @haggistrap – Just saw your similar comment. Interesting that BP scooped up the nearby blocks.

    40. Artyhetty says:

      ‘Oh, the oil, the oil’, said bettertogether woman.

      There is masses of oil, in Scottish waters. England will continue to steal it. The Greens are not happy. One of them said on twitter that anyone rejoicing in an oil boom is an enemy of the planet.
      I replied saying that any future oil reserves and therefore revenues could and will be used to invest in more renewables by the Scottish government. Pointed out that the yookay government have taken our oil and totally squanderd the money, spent it in england mainly the south.

      I didn’t bother reading the Green guys response. I am all for clean energy, it is a travesty that we are at 2017, and still burning fossil fuels and even worse that the Tory, UKgovernment have removed funding for renewables across the board. Are the Greens up in arms about that? Would they rather the oil revenues continue to be taken by the UKgov and totally squandered.

      So, the oil, swoon. Must get some cereal to go with my huge mug of tea! The anxiety of that oil discovery (it was known about well before 2014) is just too much.

      Which territory are the fields situated in, (I know). When Scotland becomes independent, oil revenues will stay in Scotland. I think england should be very very nice to us right now.

      Yesterday, T.May wasted everyone’s time and money, to insult our FM, for the cameras. It was a disgrace. Mayhem should have sent a cardboard cut out of herself and she should get on with her day job. She seems a bit obsessed with Scotland, I wonder why.

    41. Fergus Green says:

      To paraphrase an SNP MP at a recent Prime Minister’s Questions:

      ‘With its £1.7 trillion debt and its basket case economy, can England/Wales afford to be an independent country?’

    42. galamcennalath says:

      Our poor wee country saddled with even more of the nasty stuff. We’re doomed, doomed I tell ye!

      Aye, only in Yoonland.

      Why so open about the new discoveries now, with a second indyref on the cards?

      Could in be because within hardnosed business assessments, iScotland is become inevitable, so no reason to conceal oil any longer.

    43. haggis_trap says:

      @onward – exactly this : perhaps as many as 8 billion.
      which of course has to change forecasts for remaining oil in UKC (was previously 20 million total).

      The really interesting part of this story is that it proves the concept of basement reservoirs. In simple terms these are deep lieing reservoirs below traditional sandstone which has previously been source of our oil.

      In Dr Robert Trices own words this could be a “game changing strategic resource”. The UK oil and gas authority seem to agree with him when out of round license was allocated.

    44. Brian Powell says:

      Good to see the old lies from Unionists being exposed.

      We are not GERS deniers, we’re GERS examiners.

      Family of nations? No: Smith Commission gutted, SNP amendments all voted down, Sewell Convention, no more than words, oil, Norway shows how it can be done.

      Of course both the Tories and Labour need to try to keep a lid on Scotland, because they are both being exposed as wretched liars.

    45. Artyhetty says:

      Re;manandboy@11.15

      That’s the worry, and it won’t just be UK interests that will do anything to get at the oil.

      I really would prefer that oil had run out, diffiicult to read about it without getting the shivers.

    46. Legerwood says:

      Capella @ 11.29 and Mike @ 11.33

      Re tax breaks for North Sea oil companies. Interesting article here about China and its involvement in the North Sea oil sector. The tax credit system means it receives over £300 million rather than paying around £2 billion or more in tax.

      http://uk.businessinsider.com/chinas-cnooc-largest-oil-operator-in-scotlands-north-sea-2016-8?r=DE&IR=T

      Thank you, George Osborne.

    47. Proud Cybernat says:

      We need a new McCrone Report…

      http://imgur.com/gNTjJrl

    48. Liz Rannoch says:

      … and they try to say they didn’t know…

      “According to N-56, Scotland is set to become one of the five richest nations on earth.”

      http://marketbusinessnews.com/north-sea-oil-reserves-six-times-higher-estimates/30474

      Sleekit, conniving barstewards.

    49. The Rough Bounds says:

      I got the story on the amount of oil lying off Scotland’s west coast back in the mid eighties. The amount is still being hidden from us.

      I have hated the British State ever since.

    50. Ken500 says:

      There is Oil off the West coast and in the Irish Sea. Commercial activity on the Clyde was limited and banned by Thatcher because of Faslane. Get rid of Trident there will be multiBillions business Oil, vessels, building on the Clyde benefiting the Ayrshire coast . Instead of the mines etc. CCS at Longannet shelved and not supported by the ConDem liars.

      Business for Scotland keep on getting it wrong about Oil taxes along with ‘expert’ Oil economists, business ‘expert’ economist and MSM reports. Immature, crooked Chancellors of the Exchequer. It is not because of a less tax regime. It is because the tax regime is not appropriate for the price, and cost of production. I.e. A too high tax regime when prices have fallen. Not appropriate for cost, profit and cost of production. Meaning production, costs profit etc are not achievable because of the tax regime. Shutting down production.

      Just elementary business knowledge, elementary accounts knowledge, of balance sheet – profit and loss and twenty minutes on the internet – re UK Gov HMRC Oil tax accounts. The price of a barrel of Oil re tax. The ‘experts’ keep on going on about the Oil barrel price exclusively,affecting production. Not the price in relation to the Oil tax.

      Too high tax in relationship to price and cost of production. It’s not Einstein. It’s basic accounts, slight business, knowledge, elementary maths, and access to internet UK HMRC Oil tax report. One person is now doing three jobs, because of Osbourne 6 jobs and useless Hammond who always gets it wrong and smirks at the idea of Scotland getting rid of Trident. Or a Naval base at Faslane to control the shores. Stop smuggling drugs getting in. Patrolling the coast on the 12 miles fishing limits and exclusive home port access for boats under EU regulations. The fishing vessels now use bigger nets under Scottish Gov – EU agreement on increased quotas.

      Osbourne (UK Gov) shut down the Oil sector in complete ignorance of malice. The Scottish Gov appealed repeatedly for the tax regime to be brought down to support exploration. Losing Scotland £Billions – £25Billion + £Billions ? that has to be imported. = £50Billion? £10Billion loss for fives years+ Since 2010. The Oil tax is 40% since Jan 2016. It is picking up. The summertime is more productive because of the weather. There can be winter holdup because of the weather. Pipe lines are also being extended because of the need of decommissioning. Decommissioning is totally tax free (because of the high costs involved). That is being invested in various places. Coming onshore.

      Oil discoveries can be kept quiet. Kept secret so the necessary paper work and licences can completed. Put in place in light of any rivalry. Kept totally confidential. Inside dealing can make some people a lot of money. The NS Oil production could go in for ever more under the right conditions. Used for the benefit of the community with the right conditions. Invested in renewables etc. It is not advantageous to have too high Oil prices because it can have a negative effect on the economy without adequate alternative. Scotland achieve and exceeds emission targets. The SNP Scottish Gov is greener than many others and invests very successful in renewables, exceeding reaching targets.

    51. Maid_in_Scotland says:

      May I just repeat what someone said many years ago when oil was first being pumped out in the North Sea (apologies for not remembering who it was)

      “Scotland is the poorest little rich country in the world.”

      If the persistent ‘No’ voting Scots don’t waken up very soon, we will remain the poorest little rich country in the world.

      And as for pooling and sharing. Well, I don’t mind pooling and sharing with people who respect and understand what pooling and sharing actually means, but I will not have my country constantly rubbished and insulted by people who expect us to pool and share our wealth with them while they begrudge every penny they ‘give back’ to us as if it were some sort of overseas aid and we were relying upon THEIR largesse to survive.

    52. A guy came into our YES shop just before the Referendum to say he worked in the oil industry and there were huge oil reserves being discovered off the Shetlands. They had been told to go home and to say nothing about it. He also said that due to the undersea rock formation in that area and previous volcanic activity it was “interesting” what was coming up with the evidence of oil. There appeared to be gold in the sludge. He said the whole oil industry knows there is hundreds of years of oil around Scotland.

      Let us not be unbalanced about this. It is and was a mistake to imply that Scotland’s economy is soley reliant on oil.

      Last night’s special QT was highly significant in that at no point were any good reasons for leaving the EU established or even offered and most of it was a far from convincing rearguard action to defend an act of national and political stupidity. The mindless folly was particularly evident in the offerings from some of the audience.

      What came over was a vision of a suppliant UK begging favours from other nations around the world.

      There may well be a case for the leaving the EU. No sign of it last night however and I suspect the result would be reversed if another referendum was to be held.

    53. ewen says:

      More oil. Well that’s us totally fecked. It’s a curse I tell ya, a curse.

      Now what about the West coast?

    54. David Arnott says:

      Whoever calls these people ‘journalists’ is either having a laugh or is a total moron.

      Shameless peddlers of state propaganda is more like it.

      I laugh when I see some newspaper editor being asked their opinion on some TV show on the country, economy etc.

    55. Mike says:

      I’m still trying to get my head around the fact that a country with a 5.3 million in population expenditure burden is able to run up a fiscal deficit when it has the largest Oil and Gas asset in Europe coupled with 25% of the EUs entire renewable energy potential meaning that its Oil and Gas can be used as export sales and not for domestic use.

      Most Oil and Gas producers are burdened with the need to use much of their product within a domestic energy distribution capacity.
      Scotland doesn’t. Scotland is almost weekly increasing its domestic reliance over to renewable energy sources and decreasing its need on fossil fuels enabling it to increase its export market in fossil fuel assets.

      Its amazing that people in Scotland give credence to project fear claims on our economic potential without question.

      That’s the power of media for you. They take a reality and give it a perception which has people denying common sense itself.

    56. davidb says:

      Curious about this Greece reference all the time. How many Greeks are there demanding a return to Ottoman rule? Is there any party in Greece which wants to be part of the Turkish empire?

      And how big is the demand for a monarchy in Greece? Their 19th Century one was imported from Germany too.

    57. Ken500 says:

      Read the Chinese Oil article. ‘Reduce tax regime levels in 2014 from 62% to 50% allowing for a one time yearly only deferral’

      They were getting a tax rebate because the tax rate was reduced for 62% to 50%. The rebate is 12%. ie 62% minus 50%. The Chinese still paid 50% tax in any production, Ring fenced Corporation tax so companies can’t set too high interest rates against tax. As per UK Gov HMRC tax regime in 2014. Accounts. ie The price per barrel had fallen drastically.

    58. Mike says:

      Legerwood

      Indeed. You will find the same profit margins being given to every Private Oil company working within the UK sector of the North Sea.

      Its actually and act of blatant Treason on the UK by the UK Government.

      The deliberate theft of public funding.

    59. ClanDonald says:

      Does anyone know: does the UK government sell all these exploration licences or do they just give them away for free? If they sell them how much? And who gets the money? Is it in the GERS figures ?

    60. Craig P says:

      Listened to the BBC in Falkirk about the prospect of another indyref. it was like going through the looking glass. We cannae afford it, England subsides us, SNP promised one referendum in our lifetime, we are British. There has only ever been one argument we need to win – the idea that we are fleeced, not subsidised – but the subsidy myth seems to have a death grip on the Scottish electorate.

    61. heedtracker says:

      There’s oil in that soil. Its just not for the people of Scotland.

      Scotland wont see much if any of this. The whole not Scots oil and gas sector’s was rigged over a decade by Thatcher’s crew, to siphon it all out and over Scotland, straight into the Treasury, City, giant pension and hedge funds. Its such a big vital business, and as we all know, great for beating Scottish democracy to death, by big fat slobs skulking in Glasgow suburbs. An incredible resource, looted.

      But we voted NO in 1979 and 2014 so there is one last chance coming.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackRock

      Worth over $5 trillion, pays George Osborne a million dollars a year for something or other.

    62. call me dave says:

      “Scotland is floating in oil” I told my UKOK Libdem in-laws in Oban around 2013 when there had been a flurry of small and medium sized finds some in the papers and some reported on sites like WoS.

      I went on to list the other natural and business resources we had, reminding them that Scotland had to balance the budget every year, and had no debt to worry about as it it would be balanced by assets belonging to Scotland that would have to be ‘transferred’ from WM after independence. Then Scotland would grow.

      “Scotland is about to change big-time” I said.

      They just gave me an astonished and fearful look, and they went on to vote no!

      The SNP near wipeout of the other parties in Scotland and the 56 MPs to Westminster came to pass.

      They still cannot understand it or see it as a good development, they live in dread and voted to ‘leave’ in the Brexit referendum.

      They are fearties! I hardly have any conversation with them now.
      Unfortunately still lots of them still in Scotland I think.

      The oil is nice to have but independence must not be based on that alone. It is natural for a country to be independent and make its own decisions…end off!

      Today we vote Section 30 through and so it goes! 🙂

      PS: lightening the mood I caught this wee story in the Hootsman.

      https://archive.is/u0Gng

    63. Graeme Doig says:

      K1

      Re hour thoughts on bugging. The opposite had crossed my mind. I thought it was an opportunity for the establishment to record Nicola in the hope of getting something to use against her.

      In reality I think May was just taking the piss, knowing No Nicola can’t be seen to turn down a meeting where ever that might be.

      Political games on steroids coming up, especially due to new oil find.

    64. Ian says:

      More oil and more ways to get more oil too – http://www.n-56.org/updates/scotland-set-oil-bonanza-heralds-new-golden-age-north-sea-lasting-another-century

      Some new methods may be ok, but offshore fracking maybe not. Do you think any UK government would have any environmental concerns that would prevent them from doing anything offshore as long as it made money for them (and it wasn’t off their shores should it go tits up).

      Of course if the UK got the same tax revenue per barrel as others do, that would be a third way to boost oil tax revenues.

      http://www.resourcegovernance.org/blog/did-uk-miss-out-%C2%A3400-billion-worth-oil-revenue

      Then there’s renewable energy………

    65. schrodingers cat says:

      For immediate release: 27 March 2017

      This announcement contains inside information.

      Hurricane Energy plc

      (“Hurricane” or the “Company”)

      Completion of Halifax Well Operations and Release of the Transocean Spitsbergen Rig

      Well Results Indicate that Lancaster and Halifax are a Single Hydrocarbon Accumulation

      Hurricane Energy plc, the UK based oil and gas company focused on hydrocarbon resources in naturally fractured basement reservoirs, announces that operations on the 205/23-3A well (the “Halifax Well”) are complete.

      The Company can confirm that the well is an oil discovery with initial data analysis indicating Halifax is linked to the Lancaster field forming a single large hydrocarbon accumulation.

      The information below relating to the Halifax Well is preliminary and will be updated following detailed analysis once the final well data and third party reports have been received and analysed.

      The principal purpose of the Halifax Well was to support the Company’s view that the Lancaster Field and the Halifax prospect are one large connected structure. Well results support the Company’s opinion. The Halifax Well has successfully identified an extensive oil column, significantly below local structural closure. The reservoir interval encountered is pervasively fractured with porosities similar to those at Lancaster. The Company believes that the deeper oil down to (“ODT”) at 1,846m true vertical depth subsea (“TVDSS”) identified in the Halifax Well, compared with an oil water contact (“OWC”) at Lancaster at 1,678m TVDSS, is most likely caused by a tilted OWC.

      The Halifax Well was drilled and cased to 1,179m TVDSS in accordance with the Company’s drilling programme which was designed to isolate a potential gas cap and oil bearing column to a depth of 100m true vertical thickness (“TVT”) below structural closure. It was subsequently drilled to 1,801m TVDSS and a Drill Stem Test (“DST”) was undertaken. However, constrained by budget, available time and the safety requirement of drilling overbalance, the well was unable to clean up and recovered only traces of formation oil to surface. The well was finally TD’ed at 2,004m TVDSS, with no confirmed OWC encountered.

      Following discussions with the Oil & Gas Authority, the Halifax Well has been suspended to allow for potential future operations to either deepen and/or undertake further testing of the well, the programme for which will be determined following analysis of the well results.

      Preliminary third party analysis from the Halifax Well indicates:

      · a very significant hydrocarbon column of at least 1,156 metres is present within the basement extending well below local structural closure (which is at 1,040 metres TVDSS);

      · that the basement reservoir below the final casing point (1,179m TVDSS) is pervasively fractured (based on initial analysis of borehole image logs processing); and

      · that porosity is consistent with that at Lancaster (based on initial petrophysical analysis.

      The Spitsbergen rig has demobilised and is no longer on hire to Hurricane.

      Dr Robert Trice, Hurricane’s CEO, commented:

      “This is a highly significant moment for Hurricane and I am delighted that the Halifax Well results support the Company’s view that its substantial Lancaster discovery has been extended to include the Halifax licence. We believe that the GLA is a single hydrocarbon accumulation, making it the largest undeveloped discovery on the UK Continental Shelf.

      The discovery of a 1km hydrocarbon column at Halifax validates the efforts the Company undertook to acquire the licence and drill, test and log the Halifax Well through the winter months. Given the positive well results, the Halifax Well has been suspended to provide the Company the option to return to undertake further testing as well as provide the option to deepen the well and thereby establish a definitive oil water contact.

      The end of the Halifax Well marks the completion of the 265 days during which Hurricane has had the Transocean Spitsbergen rig on hire. The Company has successfully drilled one development (Lancaster Sidetrack), one appraisal (Lancaster Pilot), one intervention on the 2014 horizontal well (in preparation for well completions in Q2 2018) and two exploration (Lincoln and Halifax) wells. We have now completed the well stock for our Early Production System (“EPS”) and in the process materially increased and de-risked the resource volumes associated with Lancaster. The exploration wells on Lincoln and Halifax have resulted in the discovery of extensive oil columns and we therefore expect that later iterations of our CPR will significantly upgrade our resource base on both the Greater Lancaster and Greater Warwick Areas.

      I would personally like to thank Transocean whose pragmatic approach to commercial and contractual negotiations have been a breath of fresh air in today’s tough industry environment, and have facilitated Hurricane’s successful campaign during a time when UK exploration and appraisal drilling has been at a low. We have created a great partnership and I look forward to successfully continuing this relationship.

      The Lancaster CPR is due imminently and FID for the Lancaster EPS remains on track for the end of H1 2017. We will process the data from the Lincoln and Halifax wells and expect to release updated CPRs towards the end of 2017.

      These are exciting times for Hurricane.”

    66. Ken500 says:

      Chinese Oil tax

      The £361Million rebate was 12%. Deferred in 2015 because the tax regime was reduced in 2014 from 62% to 50% . The Chinese company still paid 50% tax on production. Ie on the amount they produced Accounts are always submitted a year later. For the year before. The accounts/tax is sorted are a year later. Adjusted. If too much tax has been paid there is a rebate paid.. 6 April – the start of the tax year. To get the money in money paid out and the accounts prepare for all industry/business.

      The paid £361 Million X (times 4). The £361Million was a reduction from the £361Million X 5 (times 5) they paid the year before, because of the tax regime changes. From 62% to 50%. In 2014/ 15 More tax revenues were raised. Declared in the Scottish /UK Gov accounts. It was last year the revenues had fallen to £Millions because the tax regime was not reduced enough in time to benefit increased production.

      They also paid wages, salaries NI personal taxation on workers salaries along with the supply chain. Maintenance, transport, helicopter contracts, supply boat costs, catering. Vehicle maintenance, accommodation costs. Etc.

    67. Davosa says:

      Even more oil huh! Those greedy fuckers in London will be rubbing their hands with glee and will spend it in jig time. So yes we will be poorer if these bastards get their sweaty paws on it.

    68. Al says:

      Indy Scotland will be Europe’s power house.
      Wind, oil & wave energy in abundance and you wonder why the old empire are so keen to hang on to us? They’re still gutted about letting India go.

    69. Artyhetty says:

      Re,Maid_in_Scotland@12.00

      The UK brit establishment have been and are the biggest scammers in the world. A bit like those ones who con old folks out of their savings. Scotland never fell for it, but a few opportunist rogues answered the call and agreed to hand over Scotland’s land and resources for them.

      They did a really fantastic job of keeping Scotland poor, and blaming the Scots, while pocketing the revenues. Into the bargain, the yoons ensured that the people of england and even around the world, viewed Scotland as a major subsidy junkie, when in fact the opposite was true. Clever, and typical bullying behaviour.

      Thing is, now that the cowboy job, that the rogues agreed on, on behalf of Scotland, has proved less than secure, and the walls are falling down, they never built the roof, people want their money back. It should be paid back with interest.

      Let’s ignore anymore scams from WM.

    70. Ken500 says:

      Stop listening to the BBC. Stop picking the sore. It keeps festering. They thrive on it. It increases their influence. No viewers/listeners. No programmes. No one listens or view them any more. Be selective. It can’t go on indefinitely.

    71. gordoz says:

      But the Daily Records graph man will point out its the wrong kid of oil surely..

      See graphs

    72. John Walsh says:

      ?Oil to the left of us Oil to the right
      Here we are stuck in the middle with Yoons ?

      Whatever the final tally of hydrocarbons there is offshore
      Unless we control its extraction it will be squandered by WM.
      Licensed correctly a Scottish government could insist on part Nationalised partnerships
      Like Norway. Oil companies won’t refuse. This will help appease the Greens position.
      Whilst we keep funding and expanding renewables we achieve a double whammy.
      And if we subsidies electric cars like Norway ( free re charging in town) it helps reduce
      Scotland’s reliance on Oil for use.
      Having a huge oil surplus kills any call for Fracking stone dead ( Sir Ian Wood will be upset)
      Getting the McCrone report plastered over the MSM should be imperative
      And is there not one journalist out there who wants to know who the 100 businessmen who met with Cameron?

    73. OT I see tesco has been fined millions of pounds for fraud in their books but they have come to an arrangement with fraud office but no word of any of those responsible being charged with fraud? The establishment protecting their. own again plus you can apply to be a chief constable even if you have no experience in the police I kid you not , ex cabinet ministers etc., can apply is this the establishment trying to get their place men in before they can no longer delay the Westminster child sexual abuse is exposed ???? Surley not .

    74. Sean says:

      It is a shame that we had already exceeded the carbon budget to stay under 1.5 degrees warming with all previously documented oil available for extraction. If we burn this new oil, we cook the planet. If it’s not already too late.
      We need an economic plan for independence based on inputs from renewable energy self sufficiency. To hit such massively ambitious targets, oil resources would need to be utilised almost exclusively to build the new energy infrastructure and when targets are met, the rest of the oil should be left in the ground.

    75. FM says:

      To Alwi. Brilliant comment.

    76. Clootie says:

      It is not just about any one field (although significant).
      Each development leads to an improved infrastructure in the area. E.g. Once a pipeline is in place it gets easier to justify the business case for a second, third platform etc. When an installation is on location then nearby smaller fields become viable via subsea tie backs and so on with logistics etc.

      We have a false representation of operating costs / taxation / reserves etc.

      Oil reserves / income must be discussed over decades and not short periods which distort the value to a nation’s finance.
      Look at the income over 40years sent to Westminster which was used to balance the books. Now compare this to the fund in Norway. We can still start a fund as an Independent country which will ensure a net contribution. The ability to pay in during the peaks of Oil price and draw from the fund during low oil prices.

      I don’t even understand why we are debating the value of this resource. What other nation would see Oil & Gas reserves as a “problem”

    77. Mike says:

      Love the idea of Fracking within a Scotland in Union.

      Scotland gets all the Geographical headaches while Westminster rakes in all the revenues and Sales profits.

      Scotland in Union. Ye cannae whack it.

    78. schrodingers cat says:

      Lancaster was drilled in 2009 and subsequently sidetracked in 2010, with well testing flowing light (38° API) oil to surface from the fractured basement. The results of the drilling also indicated that significant upside potential could exist within Lancaster as oil shows were encountered at depth within the basement. The Competent Person’s Report (CPR) undertaken by RPS in 2010 assigns 207 MMboe of 2C Contingent Resources to Lancaster and concludes that individual well flow rates up to 8000 bopd are achievable from the basement.

      ———————————
      the oil has an 38° API, the same as Brent crude, therefore has the same value as brent crude.

      the formation west of shetland is devonian, high porosity but low permeability, the hurricane assets are naturally fractured matrix

      because devonian rock is the oldest rock, upon which life once roamed, it is the oldest rock that can possibly contain oil. as such, it is generally found at much greater depths than other oil bearing formations. geology has brought the hurricane assets much closer to the surface.

      this is very good news for the industry, eg, the brent field platforms are being decomissioned, they have been producing brent crude from 5 formations
      Broom
      Rannoch
      Etive
      Ness
      Tarbairt

      together, the oil has an api of 38. but there exists huge deposits of devonian rock below these abandoned 5 formations, previous and the last attempt to access these devonian formations (the barnacle well on the Brent Delta) failed due to drilling issues, eg collapsing well walls. this sealed the fate of these old and expensive platforms but interest in these formations will be renewed due to Hurricane Oils discoveries.

    79. Macart says:

      @ Clootie

      “I don’t even understand why we are debating the value of this resource. What other nation would see Oil & Gas reserves as a “problem””

      None Clootie.

      The Scottish electorate have been the victims of the worst kind of theft, fraud and deliberate disinformation for decades.

      They’ve been robbed blind. Stabbed in the back by a ‘partner’ and convinced that’s a good thing. In point of fact those bastards in that house on the Thames have perpetrated this crime, this disinformation on the electorate of the entire UK.

      It’s long past due that the other shoe drops on this deception. If things go our way in the near future, Karma is going to have a field day in Westminster among the political class.

    80. HandandShrimp says:

      Talking of crazed Yoons, I heard Cochrane on the radio last night. I had forgotten he existed. He was as fantastically Yoonish as he ever was. It gave me a laugh as I sat in a traffic jam so if nothing else he was light comedy relief.

      Come 5pm they will all be back on the Yoon train singing their praises to Yoonery 🙂

      This time round they sound a lot less credible and the realisation that so much from 2014 was bare faced lies will not help their case.

    81. heedtracker says:

      Looks like a whole hour of Ligger Neil’s vote tory BBC Politics show for lunch, was all given over to the boss of UK’s biggest frackers INEOS. Fracking is great you know, really really great, must be a smirky beeb gimp says so.

      It wasn’t the actual billionaire owner of INEOS that wants to destroy England’s green and pleasant, because you can never have too much money.

    82. Les Wilson says:

      I can hear the Tories in Westminster already,” Brexit? god must love us, see the oil we have found to back us”

      Hurrah Hurrah, and it IS, our oil to do with what we want to,we will sort the EU out now, Hurrah Hurrah!!

      About the scots?, well they can go fuck themselves it is OUR oil,
      Hurrah Hurrah!!”

    83. stonefaction says:

      RE: bugging/Bute House – might the reason not be that any bugs found in Bute House would likely be those put there by UK security services. Can’t have those being discovered, so best not to search.

    84. johnj says:

      Add the Clyde estuary to the list. Long rumoured in these parts but squashed by the ministry of defence because of interference with nuclear sub operations.

    85. heedtracker says:

      BBC r4 lunchtime news skips over Scottish and Holyrood, spends ages with Jim Naughty in your America, extremely detailed in depth, state and federal America politics, why, fuck knows. Future Sir Jim OBE, needs the work?

    86. Liz Rannoch says:

      God I wish someone would stand up and say “we can’t stand by and watch you use OUR resources as bargaining chips, this is why we have to leave BEFORE you do”.

      If I had the run of Holyrood I’d use the oil profits to fund as much renewables as possible, then I’d say that all new housing must have it’s own/shared wind turbines, PV panels, ground/air heat exchangers and the best insulation available. At the same time I would start in the north and renovate all housing to the same sort of standard and work my way south. Then I’d think about other things…

    87. heedtracker says:

      Over a thousand miles from the not Scots Atlantic oil patch,

      http://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/fergus-wilson-bans-coloureds-123028/

    88. Chick McGregor says:

      @AltClut

      “As we all know Indy Scotland will, legally, have no economic deficit.”

      I think you may have meant ‘debt’ rather than deficit.

      We probably will have some kind of deficit although the £15 billion figure is laughable and does not stack up against any kind of scrutiny for a post indy scenario. It doesn’t even add up in terms of expenditure per head minus tax revenue.

      But we will not really know the true figure until Scotland is independent. It may even, quite possibly be a surplus.

      On a side note, if the UK does renege on its debt to the EU it would become all the more likely that Scotland would not accept a share of UK debt and be cheered for it.

    89. Ken500 says:

      Fracked Gas from the US, ruining the US environment, is being imported into Grangemouth. The UK is using it. The ConDem refused CCS storage at Longannet in Fife. A promise Tory Gas CCS project at Peterhead supported by BP or Shell.

    90. Mike says:

      The BBC is still continuously reporting that Teresa Mays “Now is not the time” statement to mean she has totally rejected Nicola Sturgeons timetable proposals out of hand.

      This is the worst kind of bias State managed propaganda any media could display.

      “Now is not the time” is no way to interpret a denying of the proposed timetable of an Indyref for 18 months to 2 years in the future.

      Its actually a means to prevent a commitment to deny an Indyref in 18 months to 2 years time. AND THEY KNOW IT!

      Fucking BBC man.

    91. Mike says:

      Chick

      Norway doesn’t have a deficit. A deficit is not a National default position its a choice taken through ideological policy program pursuit.

    92. caz-m says:

      And let’s not forget the massive reserves of Oil and Gas that Scotland has outwith this discovery.

      Also the potential for more discoveries down the West coast.

      Scotland has the largest Oil and Gas fields within the EU and London wants to continue to keep all the tax revenues generated from them.

    93. Ken500 says:

      Tesco crooks who fraudulently cooked the books and should go to jail. Have been let loose. The Go and do not go to jail, Tesco gets let off with a fine. The consumers pay for it. It is just disgraceful. The UK is one of the only places in the world were criminal and fraudsters embezzling public money and evading taxes do not go to jail.

      Multinationals making vast profits and evading taxes just get away with it because of the Westminster unionist criminals. That is why the Tories want out of the EU. So Tory and their associates can crash the economy, illegally manipulate the markets and tax evade. The EU is tightening up tax evasion.

    94. heedtracker says:

      Well that’s enough tory beeb gimps for one day, with BBC r4 lunchtime news bashing on and on about what the Heil perverts were doing with their latest anti Scottish democracy front page.

      Tory media pervs are just as psychopathic as tory politicos.

    95. John Gibson says:

      I sense growing traction to the idea that oil isn’t “green” and should be left where it is – I skipped through the comments and saw this idea mentioned at least once. Global warming and all that. We may even see an argument along these lines during the run up to another referendum to attempt to diminish oils importance. Didn’t Patrick Harvie say this last time round?

      I’m no chemist but I know oil is used in many other ways – plastics,asphalt, and a host of other areas. It doesn’t have to be burned as fuel, so – genuine question – why leave it in the ground?

      Won’t it always be worth serious money and worth extracting?

    96. Toby says:

      Loved Tom Crotty of INEOS on the Politics show making a sporting analogy comparing negotiation with a football match ,
      “They start in their goal area and you start in yours and you work towards the centre. If you both start in the centre nobody wins anything. ”
      This is a so called leader of industry who appears on T.V. to give us the benefit of his knowledge, experience and business acumen, who apparently has never seen a football match.

    97. Big Jock says:

      Mike Russell seemed very assured that the letter to be issued at 5pm to the PM. Had outlined the exact route to indi ref 2 in the event of any block on democracy. I think the SNP have been working behind the scenes on something very conclusive. Perhaps involving other nations and lawyers!

    98. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Now is not the time,” shrieks Mayhem and the collective Yoonetariat.

      “Aye it is!”

      “Now IS the Time…”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rj1So21b_A

    99. Les Wilson says:

      I know how important oil is to us, especially in our new Scotland.
      It will serve many useful purposes in regards to our overall we fare as a caring nation.

      However as far as long term and affordable energy I feel geo thermal is the way to go, America and other nations are seriously looking at how to harness the internal heat of the earth to create power. Many major names are investing in it now.

      This does not destroy the inner heat of the earth, simply by boring down a few thousand feet and a apply water steam comes out and then used to generate turbines that in turn create electricity. This is of course a simple explanation it is only a little bit more complicated than that.

      However, once done little maintenance is required, and would have low staffing requirements. It makes it a no brainer, that is why others are looking at seriously.
      I see not reason, given today’s drilling systems that we could not do it here in Scotland to create an eco friendly environment. This is where a chunk of oil revenues could go, low cost electricity for the whole of Scotland.

      Another industry that Scots could be leaders.

    100. Dr Jim says:

      The imposition of English Tory rule masquerading as the UK Government on Scotland and Norn Ireland is thrusting its way down an ever narrowing tunnel to an end it keeps closing its eyes to and hoping it will all go away

      It wont, it’s creeping its inevitable way to a horror show of epic proportions for the little band of Brexit rascals, and such is their stupidity on the subject Tory MPs are now making veiled threats to the EU Scotland and immensely even more stupidly to Norn Ireland

      These Tory rascals are about to find out us expendables find ways of biting back and they’re not going to like it

      Scotland, Norn Ireland and the EU all at the one time telling the English government to have another think about their attitude and stop digging this big hole for themselves and still Mrs Mays little rascals are looking for more shovels to excavate faster

      Because that’ll do it for sure eh

      “ELFES” English Laws for English stupidity

    101. Capella says:

      @ Toby – thanks for that. So funny. Stu should make a clip and we can play it any time we want to laugh at captains of industry.

    102. Liz g says:

      Galamcennalath @ 11.42
      Or could the publicity around the oil yesterday (we knew about it for a while) be designed to put a wedge between the Greens and the SNP in time for today’s debate and vote.

    103. Lenny Hartley says:

      This from a fb comment today from a guy that still works in the Industry

      80nmls west of the Butt of Lewis in 1990, Santa Fe 140 rig, massive finds. keep looking at all these suddenly appearing massive find, and these are the wells being drilled in late 80’s and early 90’s.

    104. Derick fae Yell says:

      The British State will continue to try to divide and rule by detaching Shetland from Scotland. Why wouldn’t they?

      True, there is no groundswell of opinion whatsoever in the Isles for this, but there is the group Wir Shetland. Don’t discount them.

      Yes, their primary motivation, publicly stated by leading members, is British Unionism.

      Yes, the leading lights are well known (being kind) eccentrics, some local, some imported. Yes they have never stood a candidate (but some members are understood to be standing for Council as ‘independents’ this year).

      Yes, of the three ‘independent’ councillors who supported them originally one left due to misogynistic bullying, one is facing criminal charges, and one remains.

      Yes a Crown Dependency Shetland would have a 12 mile limit.

      But: the situation for an ostensibly fully independent Shetland is less clear cut. Westminster will try to exploit that.

      It’s important that Yes wins in Shetland. Really important.

      This is why I keep banging on about EFTA. Re-assure folk that we won’t be back in the Common Fisheries Policy, and Shetland is winnable. At the very least it removes a campaign obstacle.

    105. Wullie B says:

      Regarding oil, the cold water coral of the Darwin mounds, an area 50 miles long has been aided by the warmth in the sea bed due to? You guessed it, OIL, this and the Rockall Basin are supposed to be the biggest oil fields in the world, beating the Saudi and midddle east oild fields combined, this was mentioned in 2002 when comercial trawling was banned from the Darwin mounds due to damage being done to the reefs.

      Oil was found on the NW part of the Isle of Skye in 1988/9 but at time wasnt commercially viable as was difficult to extract from ground, would it be viable now? who knows, the man with the licence for the area and the well died a few years ago when being an international observer on Canadian fishing vessels

    106. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Or could the publicity around the oil yesterday (we knew about it for a while) be designed to put a wedge between the Greens and the SNP in time for today’s debate and vote.”

      Doubtful Liza. The Greens would know the Tories in WM would be drilling it up anyway for the tax revenue. They’ve more of a chance in indy Scotland to affect policy.

    107. Ken500 says:

      Every country has a yearly working deficit, paying money out before taxes coming in. It is resolved at the year’s end. Countries in surplus have money in reserve deposited in the Gov account. Fort Knox. To balance the account. Also they can have a deficit supported by the assets. The books are balanced by country’s wide calculation. Assets which can be put up as collateral. If they need funds assets which can be sold off. State companies invested and control other countries assets. Railways, Utilities, Fuel and energy companies. Banking/Finance. Inter country’s banking lending.

      Countries Gov assets and credits. Government estate land, schools, hospitals, gov building, mineral assets. Including. Personal assets. People’s valuables. Precious metals, jewellery, cars, property land. Land values. Ships boats, planes. Oil reserves. Any money in gov reserves. Bank reserves. Pension fund assetsTotal £9Trn?

      This is set against the total,of people’s personal debt. Mortgages. Government current deficit. £1.9Ttillion Mortgages on Gov property, PLL ie mortgage on hospital building. £1.9Trns Yearly interest rates. Pension deficits.

      Total credits £9Trn? Total debt £1.9Trn. The Oil reserves could be used as part of the BoE guaranteed.

      The UK Gov Treasury is paying back loan repayments for borrowings which could be better spent because they are not closing the deficit. They are not raising enough in taxes in rest of the UK to cover expenses. Illegally borrowing more in rest of the UK. Scotland raises enough to cover all expenses. It would be in surplus if it was not having to follow UK Gov policies.

    108. Martin says:

      To all those who are (rightly) worried about burning hydrocarbons and its effect on the planet. Remember: oil isn’t just used for fuel. We do still need it for manufacturing of textiles and plastics.

      Also, someone’s going to burn that oil- we can’t stop that. But we could try and regulate it, and mitigate its impact with investment of profits in research.

    109. manandboy says:

      For most of my life, I thought myself very fortunate to have been born in Scotland, even with England as neighbours. Then I found out, starting with the McCrone report, what the neighbours had been up to, and still up to.

      It was then I realised that Scotland is a Colony, and we Scots are essentially a nation of indigenous, brainwashed, gullible, subservient, fearties.

      However, we are in recovery, although there are still many walking the street who would gladly give everything Scotland owns, just so long as our English Colonial Masters can continue to rule over us, and allow us to call ourselves ‘British’, even though they hold us in complete disdain and contempt, and rob us daily as if we were deaf and blind.

      I don’t think being born here is such a great thing anymore. Being lied to and abused every day by a neighbour who is fleecing you, is not exactly designed to make anyone happy.

      I now live in hope that Scotland will have another Independence Referendum – and that the deaf will hear and the blind see.

      And then, we will no longer be a colony, instead we will be independent and free.

    110. K1 says:

      Aye Graeme, ah did mean to ‘qualify’ ‘no leaks from SG’side. The ‘sweep’ would of course allow for ‘establishment’s’ side to put a nice plant in the room.

    111. heedtracker says:

      Ken500 says:
      28 March, 2017 at 1:26 pm
      Fracked Gas from the US, ruining the US environment, is being imported into Grangemouth. The UK is using it.

      Psychopath tory PM Mayhem, first world leader to kiss psychopath Pres Trump’s ring, Pres Trump’s made another psychopath head of the US Environmental Protection Agency, Senator Scott Pruitt.

      This psychopath is from Oklahama, a state fracked so hard by the frackers, its gone for three earth quakes a year to over 2000. Pruitt is a psycho’s psycho, a climate change denier opposing everything from abortion rights to same-sex marriage. As a lawyer he has repeatedly sued the EPA, defending all kinds of industrial pollution, rivers and land. Where else are they going to dump waste from oil and gas drilling operations, if not in the rivers? As Oklahoma state senator, Pruitt went big and scrapped Oklahoma’s EPA.

      His new job will allow him now to scrap the EPA of all America, now that Trump has cut the EPA budget by at least a third.

      Fast forward to the Ligger Neil vote tory BBC Politics show in London this lunchtime and its the boss of the UK’s biggest fracker INEOS, sat next to a smirking beeb gimp, for their whole hour long show, expounding the joys ahead for fracking in the UK.

      BBC corruption really out stank itself today. At the very least, that Daily Politics show beeb gimp today does look psycho too.

    112. Les Wilson says:

      EFTA is the way to go, it can be taken as a step forward towards the EU, but after a vote to do so.

      I said this before 2014 ref and I say it now. Sure there are some things not to like but I feel that Scotland would be comfortable within it, along with other countries of similar size we would share similar out looks and co-operation would be good.

      When you look at Norway, going the EFTA way has done them a lot more good than harm. Scotland could do a lot worse, indeed we do an awful lot worse already. I will back Indy,always have, always will, to get rid of the Westminster albatross which hangs around our necks but EFTA does it for me in the relationship stakes.

    113. alexicon says:

      Sorry, I may have picked this up wrong in the article, but the Claire ridge is a separate oil filed from this discovery.
      The Claire ridge platforms are being commissioned as we speak and are just about to come on stream in the very near future.
      The discovery by Hurricane is well south west of the Claire ridge and the platforms, which will no doubt be built in south east Asia, wouldn’t even be on the drawing board yet.
      A few other developments that are just getting commissioned are the Kraken, the western isles development, the mariner and the Culzean.
      All been built in south east Asia with hardly a Scot working on them.

    114. Mike says:

      WTF man? BBC Parliament isn’t showing the live Indyref debate from the Scottish Parliament even though they’re advertising the fact that they are?

      I’m watching a Labour drone in Westminster monotoning a waffle about a subject I haven’t fathomed yet.

    115. Vestas says:

      @Lenny Hartley 1:54 pm :

      “80nmls west of the Butt of Lewis in 1990, Santa Fe 140 rig, massive finds.”

      There’s been various test drills over the years on the west coast of Lewis which have shown promising results.

      However the rock is a lot more challenging than elsewhere – Lewisian gneiss is (IIRC) the second oldest rock on the planet. Lewis itself is between 2.2-2.7 billion years old and the rock is basically granite gneiss (tough stuff).

      Add in the normal weather conditions (there’s bugger all between Lewis and Nova Scotia) which are probably worse than Shetland & MUCH worse than the North Sea….

      Its all down to cost of recovery again. From memory there were test drills through 1983-1992 or so – IIRC the oil price was very low then so interest waned.

      tl;dr Oil is present on the west coat of Lewis, nobody is sure how much, probably not economical to extract yet.

    116. Macart @ 1.03 p.m.

      While I agree with all you say Mac, the people who leave the worst taste in my mouth are the so-called “proud scots”, the collaborators, whether they be politicians, journalists, or business people, all condemning both the country, Scotland, and its people, to a life of penury and servitude, when things could have been so much better, for all of us.
      They disgust me, and they are still at it, running our country, and its people down. Exactly what do they get out of this continual denigration? If they truly believe we are such a basket case, why don’t they leave and make a better life for themselves elsewhere.
      Yeah, I know. They are being well rewarded for their lies in the centuries-old propaganda campaign by Westminster to keep some of us believing that we cannot possibly survive as an independent nation, desperately dependent on the generosity of our benefactors on the banks of the Thames.
      The depressing part of this for me is that a substantial number of our citizens are still taken in by the rubbish thrown at them on a daily basis by the M.S.M. I say that from almost daily canvassing sessions for the upcoming council elections, and while we are still making progress, sometimes it seems dreadfully slow.
      Just what it will take to convince even more of our people that we can choose a better way I don’t know, maybe a catastrophic Brexit. Let’s hope we are not too late.

    117. Al Dossary says:

      Way back when I did my first offshore survival 1998 or so), one of the guys was from a seismic survey vessel.

      They had just completed a survey around the Rockall basin, and at the time were surveying off the West coast of Ireland. Very good results were as much as he would say.

      The UK are atrociously bad at oil and gas. Norway will have a vessel survey the acreage for as much as 18 months before releasing the data for the licences. In other words, they know exactly what is going up for grabs beforehand.

      Statoil was founded in the 1970’s after the US oil companies walked out of a kick off meeting with the Norwegians. Basically it was our way or not at all – the Norwegians refused to bow to their blackmail so off the US companies went.

      When the US companies came back 7 days later prepared to meet half way, the Norwegians declined and proceeded to head hunt the brightest and the best to set up Statoil. The rest is history as they say.

      The original companies in the North Sea raped and pillaged the oil as quickly as they could. All the gas was flared, extraction at the max with not enough water injection to keep the resevoir pressure up left the production rates dropping too quickly meaning that the total recovery over time was sacrificed for a quick profit.

      Contrast the demise of Brent and Forties to Valhall in Norway. Valhall was producing for 25 years, and BP put a new platform in 5 years ago to extend the field for another 40 years !

      The same BP who wrecked Forties, Miller etc were forced by a responsible government to maximise for the long term. The same BP who sat on Clair & Clair Ridge licences for 20 years would have been forced to hand the licence back after 7 years if they had not produced under Norwegian rules.

      Shell in Corrib have two 36″ gas lines going back to shore fir just 1 gas field off the Donegal coast. 1 gas field my arse. That is the initial pipelines fir the future developments out there.

      In fact, the first thing you noticed when going offshore Norway was gas flares – or should I say the lack of it. They flare practically zero.

      The next big one in my uneducated mind is porcupine basin, SW of Ireland. Look at the undersea delta in Google maps, and compare it to Nigeria or Egypt. This delta is 2 times the size of these.

    118. Dr Jim says:

      BBC Parliament channel advertises the Scottish Parliament from 2pm but stays with the obviously much more important issue of the price of a pint in English pubs with about a dozen MPs present

      Scotlands relevance is once again irrelevant

    119. Ken500 says:

      Shetland would only have 12 miles of coastal waters. Needs the nearest land mass for supplies. Sullom Voe can be moved. It is becoming redundant. Enormous bag vessels are now bring used to extract the Oil and new pipe lines are being established. Different methods of extraction.

      Shetland was part of Denmark. It came to be part of Scotland as a dowry when a Danish princess was betrothed to a Scottish King. James 1V in the seventeen century. There are coins from that period in the Scottish Museum, Edinburgh. .

    120. Macart says:

      @Alex Beveridge

      Believe me Alex, I include the proud Scot buts in the political class generalisation.

      They knew the facts well enough. They all knew and let it happen anyway because it suited their political agenda and ideology.

    121. Ken500 says:

      The Scottish debate will be later 4 – 5pm

    122. Ken500 says:

      Scottish debate on BBC parly channel – SKy.

    123. stewartb says:

      schrodingers cat @ 12.59pm

      You stated: “the formation west of shetland is devonian, high porosity but low permeability, the hurricane assets are naturally fractured matrix” and “because devonian rock is the oldest rock, upon which life once roamed, it is the oldest rock that can possibly contain oil”.

      I don’t want to get too ‘nerdy’ here but I think there is potential to confuse here.

      According to this 2015 source (http://www.devex-conference.org/perch/resources/0925-devex-thurs-crombie-dan-bonter.pdf ), Hurricane’s Lancaster Field has its oil held within a network of natural fractures within what are very, very old (Precambrian) rocks viz. ‘Lewisian Basement”. These hard, crystalline rocks have a complex history and can be from c. 1.2 up to 3 billion years old. This is a very different oil reservoir from the fields in the North Sea where for the most part the oil is held dispersed through microscopic pores between the grains of sedimentary rocks – and the Lancaster reservoir is very much older and of very different character from the Devonian you mentioned.

      However, notably, the source of the oil is reckoned to be the Jurassic Kimmeridge Clay (c. 150 million years old), i.e. the same organic rich shales that act as the source for most of the oil in the North Sea (http://sp.lyellcollection.org/content/397/1/81.full ).

      The geological structure in the area of the Lancaster Field has permitted the oil generated in the relatively young Kimmeridge Clay to migrate into the network of fractures in the very much older Lewisian Basement.

      Its a fascinating, different set of geological circumstances – a very different ‘play’ – which makes it very exciting for future exploration and appraisal in the Atlantic Margin oil province.

    124. Ken500 says:

      Debate on now

    125. Mike says:

      Davidson kicks off with a bare faced lie then manages to go downhill from there.

    126. Big Jock says:

      It’s telling how little interest the UK pays to N Eire crisis. They go mental whenever Scottish indi is mentioned. N Eire has nothing that the UK wants or needs. Whilst Scotland has everything they need to survive in their little Brexit island.

      They are not going to let us go without a fight. After indi the years of lies will be exposed. They have been lying to the Scots for years and the sad part is that some people still don’t see it. They stab us in the back and then throw bandages over the wall! That’s the reality of caring and sharing UK style.

    127. Mike says:

      Davidson tells the First Minister of Scotland to sit down.

      That’s yer fucking Tory respect for the Top office of Scotland right there after avoiding the question posed to her by the FM.

      Jesus this is not going to be a debate for the faint hearted.

    128. Ken500 says:

      Davidson is going off the Heid. Arrogant, bossy, conceited ignoramous. The same as her mate May.

    129. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Davidson is going off the Heid.”

      She should know better…

      http://imgur.com/MivZ8Ll

    130. geeo says:

      The bitterness sure shines through when Tories are not going to get their own way huh ?

      Davidson behaving like a petulant brat.

      Aww …”you lost, get over it” springs to mind…!

    131. Liz Rannoch says:

      What a bitch!

      Have just phoned Tory HQ in Edinburgh to say that due to her performance and repeated ‘people don’t want a ref’ that I do want one.

      0131 524 0030 if you want to phone, please.

    132. Vestas says:

      The reason I remember the age of Lewisian gneiss is because at one point in the 1980’s (might have been 70’s) it was internationally recognised as the first rocks to form on earth.

      I was living there at the time & told my friend about it – he wasn’t much interested in news & stuff.

      His response?

      “FFS nobody tell the Wee Frees about this or we’ll never hear the end of it!” 🙂

      Lewis as the garden of eden. Lucky it was sub-tropical back then eh? 🙂

    133. stu mac says:

      @Craig
      ============

      I don’t get it myself. Are people HAPPY to be subsidy junkies?? (I know, we aren’t but if they believe we are on hand outs from England why are they happy with that?) Don’t they want to stand on their own feet.

      Of course that isn’t the real reason for many of them. They are stuck in a mind-set which doesn’t really accord with the real world but rather than give up on their belief they accept any nonsensical argument which appears to justify it.

    134. McDuff says:

      The SNP must use this huge oil find to ram down the throats of the Unionist parties who continue to rubbish Scotland`s financial viability. We must come out fighting as of now and remove the kid gloves as i feel we have been too passive and now need to be more passionate and assertive with our message.

    135. Mike says:

      There are Governments all over the world watching this debate with absolute envy and wishful thinking.

      Each and everyone of them wishing that their opposition could be this utterly stupid and devoid of convincing argument.

      Borg Queen Ruth and Poundshop Ruth is the dream opposition team any Government anywhere could only hope to sit opposite.

    136. Dan Huil says:

      Not watching the debate [!] but if Davidson is losing the heid in desperation then it’s a good sign as far as I’m concerned.

    137. Mike says:

      Findlay stands up does his I’m a total Dickhead thingy and sits down again.

      Easy money.

    138. DerekM says:

      That whole shiny beads thing yesterday was another Tory look over there trick,must be a huge field they sent up the PM this time to run the distraction play through the media.

      How do you know Scotland just found another oil field – simple a high ranking English tory comes to offer shiny beads and preach about the benevolence of British nationalist colonialism eh i mean unionism no i was right the first time i reckon.

    139. stu mac says:

      Don’t know if this has already been posted but worth a look.
      Not a lot new (to folks here) but good to see a lot of arguments brought together in a coherent form.

      https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10649/ben-wray-10-things-about-deficit-no-campaign-won-t-tell-you

    140. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Davidson tells the First Minister of Scotland to sit down.”

      Had Davidson been knocked flat on her arse when she asked that?

    141. geeo says:

      This ain’t no debate, it is a unionist hate fest.

      Horribly wee bitter fucking no-marks, stamping their feet and scweeming…!

    142. Jack Murphy says:

      Re Main Article on the Lancaster Field.
      BBC Scotland TV News last night gave it 21 seconds of coverage.

    143. geeo says:

      Unionists refusing interventions so that they get to spout their drivel unchallenged.

      Making a complete arse of themselves.

    144. Meg merrilees says:

      Liz Rannoch

      Phoned! Had a rant…feeling better now.

    145. Brian Powell says:

      geeo

      This isn’t a debate they can talk out, there will be a vote at the end, so truly bizarre behaviour.

    146. Macart says:

      Was there an idiot epidemic overnight that no one mentioned?

      I ask because there appears to be no shortage of idiotic rants so far from both Conservative and Labour benches in Holyrood.

      Ms Davidson has not only forgotten herself, but has gone from zero to berzie in record time and as for Labour’s ‘we accept Brexit’?!?!

      Well spookily, a fair few of us, that being the majority in Scotland, DON’T. Nor do we have to fucking meekly accept brexit. We didn’t vote for it. We didn’t ask for it and if we want to avoid it, we bloody well can.

      Dear God. What kind of politician, who claims to want to represent the people of a nation, wilts in the face of someone dragging them to a fate they didn’t vote for?

      Is that it? The UK right or wrong? No fighting for the vote and mandate of your constituents, your fellow Scots?

      I can see the Conservatives acting like the utter bastirts they’ve always been and they’re positively looking forward to EMPIRE 2.0 (the return of the Sith), but FFS that Labour should go out like this?

    147. Ken500 says:

      Mundell admits people who do not agree with him voted for him. 3rd rate rejects? His constituents voted to stay in the EU but he is not being conceited or misrepresentative etc by voting against it.

    148. Macca73 says:

      Following that despicable woman Suzanne Evans last night who was on at Alex Salmond about exactly the fact that Scotland would be worse off that Greece!!

      This is all the more motivation to stick it to them with comment such as this. They want to hold Scotland down and back from ever thinking it can be anything other than Westminster’s servant. They’ve got it so wrong.

    149. gordoz says:

      O/T
      WTF is this bat shit nonsense Blair McDougallis spouting in twitter about pensions again??

      UK gov will renage on previous payments ??

      Is he mental ? Markets would hammer uk if this gains traction

    150. Chick McGregor says:

      @Derek fae Yell

      “But: the situation for an ostensibly fully independent Shetland is less clear cut. Westminster will try to exploit that.”

      It is fairly clear cut. The UNCLOS position would be that Shetland is on the Scottish Continental Shelf and that therefore the mineral rights outside its 12 mile limit would be Scottish.

      A ruling such as that was placed on the hypothetical scenario of Svalbard, an island many times the area of Shetland and much further away from the Norwegian mainland than Shetland is from the Scottish mainland, were it to declare independence from Norway.

    151. Liz Rannoch says:

      @ Meg merrilees 3.32

      Braw – mine was a bit of a rant too, poor woman!

      C’mon the rest o yous! 0131 524 0030 Tell them you want (or need/demand) another ref.

    152. Les Wilson says:

      Och,Iam stopping to watch the debate, it is as others have said it is a hate fest by the Yoons,they are a disgrace to Scotland.
      This will be watched all over the place, they know that.
      But nevertheless they show their hate for Scottish democracy only interested in anti SNP stuff, Kelly was a cracker.

      So I will now shut off, I have had enough, will come back nearer the vote before 5pm.

    153. Bob Mack says:

      If ever I have witnessed someone fighting for credibility and indeed their very survival then this is it. They are relying on emotion rather than logic to debate.

      Labour are fighting because they will never again gain power over the UK if they lose Scotland permanently.

      The Tories are fighting because they know England is heading down the plughole without a United Kingdom.

      Rennie ? Well it’s Rennie. Nuffield said.

      Not one of them has put Scotland first unless it is to serve England and English interests.

      All have much to lose from Scotland being independent and it is really beginning to show. To hell with them

    154. Proud Cybernat says:

      Just for (t)Ruthless…

      http://imgur.com/a/deb2L

    155. Mike says:

      Seeing a load of mince being posted about Shetland Independence.

      Consider this.

      The whole of Scotland is a Parliamentary Democracy. “INCLUDING SHETLAND” therefore ANY AND ALL constitutional questions regarding any part of Scotland can only be determined within the context of that Parliamentary Democracy. That puts any and all decisions regarding any constitutional question within and Indy Scotland within the jurisdiction of the Scottish Parliament.

      Shetland seeking a constitutional Independence from the Scottish Parliament must therefore seek to gain a majority of support for that proposal within the Scottish Parliament to hold a National wide referendum on the issue.

      Any other wishful thinking scenario is nothing but UDI and would be nothing short of insurrection.

      OK?

    156. schrodingers cat says:

      stewartb
      thx 4 that, i worked on the clare and shiehallion fields when they 1st came online, i assumed the hurricane assets were the same matrix, i’m not a geologist or reservoir engineer, eline, well testing, wellservices and completions are my area
      but the fact that the new discoveries are from different formation types is even better news, and no, i dont think discussions like this are nerdy, this is exactly the sort of info yessers need when confronted by yoons arguing the oil is finished.
      thx again for the update

    157. Mike says:

      The important thing to note about this Indyref debate is the fact that it is divided straight down party lines.

      No dissenters nobody standing up within their own party to talk a different point of view.

      Whats also telling is the fact that these party lines are divided between parties who are Scottish and parties who are English.

      Just saying.

    158. Scott says:

      Was out so missed the tank rant can someone get a link.

    159. Graeme says:

      Don’t know about you guys But I’m am sick to death of hearing the “get on with the day job” soundbite it’s patronizing & condescending and it’s getting on my fucking nerves

      Graeme

    160. schrodingers cat says:

      re EFTA
      it has been pointed out by many, salmond and nicola to name but a few, that the main damage from brexit lies, NOT from the fact we are leaving the EU, but from the loss of access to the single market. ie, the European Economic Area, EEA
      it is the loss of this eea access which will damage the uk economy, it is access to eea which will be the bedrock of the indyref2 campaign, it is under eea rules that countries in EFTA are exempt from the CFP and the CAP
      EFTA (all 4 countries) have already agreed an indy scotland can join ,they have also said the uk cant 🙂 farage will be spewing if yes2 campaign for the norway option, that was his prefered outcome.

      but yes, EFTA/EEA would be a huge hit with shetlands, fishermen and farmers, for the reasons already mentioned.

      an article on wos about norways approach to replacing eu subsidies to farmers and fishermen would be useful, i believe they pay the eu less because of the lack of subsidies coming back from the eu in this area

    161. marydoll says:

      I’ve listened to enough of these non-elected anti-Scotland speakers in this debate. They are in the SCOTTISH parliament ,
      therefore they SHOULD be working for a better fairer Scotland.

      Did I miss a point-of-order of Tank Commander being reprimanded
      for her dismissal of the FM?

      This debate is being viewed by a lot of people who will see all these wasters as they truly are not as they are edited to be by the EBC

    162. Hamish100 says:

      Re the Daily Heil and Sarah Vine (journalist) I use the time loosely. Isn’t vine married to some guy called Gove? Impartiality all round.

      Glad the paper has been roundly condemned.

    163. Robert Kerr says:

      @Scott

      I missed it too so someone please give a link.

      I did see the SNP girl who quoted a gaelic poem. It would be a useful compare and contrast so can we have a link also.

      What is her name?

      Keep the faith WoSers

    164. Dorothy Devine says:

      Graeme ,with you on that ,though it clearly demonstrates a lack of imagination and a lack of any awareness that there are those more than capable of multi tasking – something at which the Lib/Lab/Con Party fail spectacularly.

      I don’t think my stomach could stand watching the empty headed harridans insulting our First Minister and the people of Scotland.

      Never thought that the loudest shouter was a winner and pantomime laughter of the slap my thighs variety just irritates , particularly when over played in serious debate.

    165. jockmcx says:

      The list of truths told by BT can now fit neatly on the back
      of a fag packet.

      I have it down to 1,cameron… “of course Scotland can be a successful independant country!”…the end.

    166. Vestas says:

      I wish Ross Greer was in the SNP.

    167. Proud Cybernat says:

      SNP getting on with the ‘day job’:

      https://www.snp.org/record

    168. geeo says:

      Ross Greer….brilliant speech.

      Clear concise, educated.

      Everything these hateful unionists are not.

    169. Nana says:

      Short clip of ‘sit down’ comment from Davison

      https://twitter.com/MammothWhale/status/846721247362908160

    170. stewartb says:

      My anger at listening to opposition MSPs in today’s Holyrood debate – especially Ruth Davidson but most especially James Kelly and his BLiS pals – has just slowly transformed to a kind of sadness for our country that these MSPs, whatever their views on any particular policy, have such a negative, such a dismissive, such a disrespectful view of Scotland and the rights, needs and aspirations of its people.

      Rather than today providing a serious, uplifting, well-argued debate about Scotland’s democracy and constitution, it has been lowered by the opposition to be about delivering the ‘cleverest’ cheap shot. And its been about telling the people of Scotland to ‘sit down’ and take whatever Westminster decides, based on England’s democratic will, to give you.

      Well that attitude will not win, but only inspire Yessers to greater effort!

      Sic a parcel of rogues! Long since time for a new version of an old song to be written.

    171. Brian Powell says:

      To me Davidson’s ‘sit down’ was a set up for the cameras.

    172. Still Positive says:

      The unionist parties have no vision or imagination for Scotland. In stark contrast to the many passionate voices in the Greens and the SNP.

      I’m going to describe the former as ‘corkscrews’ as they are twisting the facts so much it is unbelievable.

      As many of you acknowledge they should ALL be standing up for the people of Scotland.

    173. harry mcaye says:

      Jack Murphy – it was actually only 17 seconds of airtime. From second story at lunchtime and an outside broadcast in Aberdeen to fourth story and 17 seconds for their peak teatime audience.

    174. Mike says:

      Oh that’s nice the Yoon Presiding Officer in the Scottish Parliament ends the Indyref debate by allowing 2 Yoon rants to finish back to back.

      And it had to be No surrender Murdo harping on about online abuse in spite of his own provocative contributions.

      #Cant stand fucking Tories

    175. Macandroid says:

      Was it ever not thus about plundering other countries?

      A plug for ‘Viceroy’s House’. See it and you will have it confirmed that Westminster have been at it for a long time, and will use anyone to get what they want.

      But we already know that.

    176. robertknight says:

      What scares me most watching events at Holyrood is the calibre, or lack thereof, of Labour and Tory (spot the difference…) MSPs.

      I mean, it’s not as though they have a 1st Team playing elsewhere, and that’s their best?

      God help them, if She can…

    177. Conan the Librarian says:

      Murdo Fraser in an alternate universe there…

    178. msean says:

      Respect showing for parliament there. Tories embarrassing themselves as the world watches.

    179. Vestas says:

      Oh please let the “Queens eleven” rant on more.

      He’s insulted everyone other than white tories I think?

    180. schrodingers cat says:

      Conan the Librarian says:
      Murdo Fraser in an alternate universe there…

      ———————–
      the air is definately thinner there

    181. Proud Cybernat says:

      ‘Wee Black Book – The Movie’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YwmOCqNxGU

    182. Brian Powell says:

      It’s strange experience watching Labour destroy it’s credibility, not only here, but internationally.

      How can they go to meetings across Europe and the world espousing democracy and social justice when they will abandone their own constituents to this Tory Government, probably the most right wing in our history.

    183. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah seen it wie ma ain ein Kezia pressed the button

    184. Conan the Librarian says:

      Kezia is managing to remember to press her button.

    185. Ken500 says:

      Bailed out at Joanna Lamont.

      If the Unionists had their way there would be no Scotland left. Scotland would be empty. The Scottish population only went up after Devolution since the Union 1707. Westminster centralist economic policies were depopulating Scotland.

      There is every possibility in the secrecy of the Ballot that the some the diehard unionist vote for Independence. It would not be surprising.

    186. schrodingers cat says:

      motion passed

      yes 69
      no 59

      indyref2 campaign has started

      eu citizens and 16/17 year olds included in electorate

      one of my concerns that the PO would block this vote is gone, good

    187. K1 says:

      Labour just died in Scotland.

    188. Ken500 says:

      It’s done. Happy, happy happy. Happiest for the last two years. A wee jig.

    189. Dal Riata says:

      These so-called ‘newspapers’ and their so-called ‘journalists’ are just the dirty, filthy scum on the top of the stagnant cesspit of UKOK Unionism.

      The way to get rid of that scum is by the simple act of voting Yes in IndyRef2.

      The cesspit will then be cast adrift and out of Scots’ lives once and for all.

      Its smell may linger for a while, but the fresh air of independence will soon do away with that.

    190. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Ah seen it wie ma ain ein Kezia pressed the button.”

      You sure, Ronnie?

      http://imgur.com/jQyUbez

    191. Artyhetty says:

      Not watched todays shenanigans at Holyrood but going on what I am reading, the yoons have been obviously working to portray the Scottish parliament as incapable of anything other than backstabbing, back biting, accept what your masters in the big english parly tells you!
      The “sit down” from shouty mouthy bullying mama ruthie, was an absolute freaking disgrace. Did the PO not call her out on that and tell her to sit down! Imagine if Alex Salmond told T.Mayhem to sit down at the HoCs!

      It was obvioulsly orchestrated, and planned and ruthie has been briefed to go into attack mode of our democratucally elected First Minister. The aim? To undermine the SNP, to put down Nicola Sturgeon in public, to deliberately raise hackles and create tension and divide where non exists, except in the yoons’ nasty little minds and what comes out of their sewer mouths.

      My gut feeling, yes, like the yoons I am going on my emotions, is that the PM, has in some way threatened N.Sturgeon, the Scottish parliament and possibly Scotland itself. I have studied bulllying tactics, my son was seriously bullied at school, you can spot them a mile off. They never work alone.

      Let’s see what transpires today.

    192. Robert Kerr says:

      Thanks Nana,

      Kate Forbes.

      Formidable young woman!

      https://kateforbes.scot/about/kate-forbes/

      Indeed a compare and contrast exercise for the Scottish Parliament.

    193. Lanarkist says:

      New Scottish Independence Referendum starts now, and possibly a new constitutional crisis.

      Good days work!

    194. Brian Powell says:

      Incredible, Labour voting against the right of EU citizens to have a vote in a Referendum.

      As i said they really have blown their international reputation out of the water, after all their pro-EU rhetoric. Goes equally for the LibDems.

    195. Clootie says:

      :-). 🙂 🙂

    196. heraldnomore says:

      … and cut to Fluffy to tell us they’re not going to respond.

      Back in your box Jocks; don’t care what your wee pretend parliament says.

      Aye OK then.

    197. Chick McGregor says:

      Derk fae Yell

      Apologies, I just spent a couple of hours getting up to date and it seems that more recent moves re Svalbard have seen renewed speculation that Svalbard might be entitled to its own continental shelf, lead predictably, by Brit academics.

      Your point is well made re Shetland.

    198. gus1940 says:

      It was pleasing to see that the debate was shown on The Parliament Ch.

      However, unfortunately the rest of The UK was exposed to the ‘scintillating wit and wisdom’ of James Kelly which can’t have done the reputation of Holyrood much good.

    199. Brian Powell says:

      Labour, LibDems, the wretched hypocrites stand with the Tories.

    200. Luigi says:

      WM has known about the huge potential oil reserves west of Shetland since 2012, but it has been deliberately kept out of the news. (can’t think why. :)). Following a year long MSM bombardment, about the low oil price and the dire state of the Scottish economy, WM has probably decided that now is as good a time as any, to let the cat out of the bag. After all, a fierce indy campaign has barely begun, and heaven forbid, the oil price may rise again!

      The yoons are obviously in a state of blind panic now. They don’t have a clue what they are doing, or can do, and are terrified of their own shadow. My heart bleeds. 🙂

    201. Training Day says:

      Did any of the Labour ptomaine vote for the Scottish people’s voice to be heard?

      Did an ursine creature just excrete in its habitat?

    202. Vestas says:

      “Severin maths” in the grauniad again.

      We got beaten 55-44 last time 🙂

      Tick tock sevvy, tick tock…

    203. Ken500 says:

      Davidson says, ‘the Scottish people have had enough’.They have had enough of the Tories,

    204. jfngw says:

      Interesting BBC Reporting Scotland trial runs ,within minutes of vote, with Tory/Labour line about desire for second referendum. BBC Scotland wants to ignore Scot Parliament with mandate for ref. Don’t remember them questioning the EU ref when proposed by party with 37% of the vote.

      The unionist strategy is clear, try and create division and undermine FM. Presumably with the intention that WM will need to take control of Holyrood as Scot Gov is unstable. They probably believe the resources are worth the risk.

    205. Dorothy Devine says:

      Brian , that may be true but the Tank Strider blew any thoughts of respect out of the water.

      Quite frankly the ill mannered young woman should be made to apologise for her moronic behaviour.

      I really dislike smart arsed f^ckwits.

    206. Graf Midgehunter says:

      YES, YES, YES.

      Altogether Ron Greer had quite a good speech and I’d say he seems to be starting to win more experience and self-confidence. Not bad.

      Mad Murdo was, dare I say it, completely off his rocker. Spitting out blood, feathers, lies, insults and in general doing his best to drag the Tories even further down into the swamp that breeds them. The Tories were the day’s big losers.

      J. Swinney, staid, solid, too much the “Gentleman” but OK.

      I believe there were also one or two others there as well…!?

    207. manandboy says:

      59 against ScotRef by the English parties, the pro-unionists,libdems,labour,toryukip.
      they just hate Scotland. Is there any other country which allows nation hating representatives in their Parliament?

    208. heraldnomore says:

      I see Lady Mone tempted to run for FM. Someone have a word and tell her how it works. Hasn’t she left the country?

    209. Tarisgal says:

      This doesn’t surprise me in the least. A family member did the geo core sampling for much of that area just before last indy Ref and as I repeatedly told the unionists in 2014, she recorded it as LOADS OF IT, High grade and easily obtained. But nah, nah… they wouldn’t have it! So now they have official confirmation of what I said.

      But still getting sniggering little unionists arguing that the prices are so low, it’s not worth anything! HUH? As I reply – do they seriously believe that the oil companies will drill etc. if it’s not worth diddly?? No way Jose! They’re in it for the profits!! If they’re drilling for it, THEY ARE MAKING MONEY OUT OF IT!! That quietens one unionist… just to have another one on another tweet/post say… “Scotland is an economic basketcase. The Oil isn’t worth spit.” And so it goes…

      Oh dear… *sigh*… in that case, we’ll just take our oil home then and stop playing with you, England. 🙂

    210. Vestas says:

      On the Shetland stuff – doesn’t really matter one way or another.

      Worst case ScotGov say no pipelines lads, no transit of oil via bulk carriers in Scots waters. Norway will backup the no bulk carriers part (their arctic fishing is through the roof now!) and that leaves them screwed.

      The Shetland nonsense doesn’t fly any which way they try.

    211. Ruby says:

      Does anyone know how long it takes for these debates to reach the Holyrood TV archive?

      I found the 1st two parts but no luck finding today’s debate

      1.
      http://j.tinyurl.com/klv3bur

      2.
      http://j.tinyurl.com/n4q2cnl

      I much prefer watching a recording rather than a live debate due to the fast forward facility.

    212. Clapper57 says:

      Hamish100 says:
      28 March, 2017 at 4:23 pm

      Hamish, was it not Sarah who pushed Micheal to stab Johnson in the back re Tory leadership election….now what is that saying ‘Behind every successful man there is a strong woman’…..I think in the Gove’s case the saying could be rewritten ‘Behind very wimp there is an ambitious bitch’…..if ‘bitch’ seems to some, a disrespectful and sexist term then I strongly feel those who object know nothing…nada…zilch.. of the lady in question via her journalistic or rather her churnalistic efforts via the rag she churns out shit for.

    213. Derick fae Yell says:

      Chick McGregor. Thanks. Would appreciate any info on the Svalbard case. You’ll find me on fb

    214. manandboy says:

      Now on to Brexit. I have to say that the EU team versus the UK team looks like a mis-match with the EU team set to dominate and end with a comfortable victory. UK team know it and not looking forward to a 2 year drubbing and humiliation.

      Me, I can’t wait.

    215. scunner says:

      I see the BBC webshite has allowed comments on their announcement that ScotParl backs referendum vote. Cue a torrent of insults, threats and lies from UK-wide nawbags, loony Yoons, keyboard kippers…

    216. Ruth Davidson screeching at The First Minister of Scotland to “SIT DOWN!” basically summed up the 300 years of our union with England,

      Ruth is a nasty piece of work,has all the characteristics of the sociopath.

    217. Bob Mack says:

      Well, the next move is down to Mrs May. Will she risk it? She may well believe that the information she gets from Ruthin is fact and act accordingly. This would be a monumental mistake,
      Given that her negotiations with the EU kick off tomorrow she has absolutely no guarantee that Scottish resources are up for discussion. She may take the view they are, but I do not believe other countries will put a degree of certainty on that.

      Problems for the UK.

      I think she will try to refuse but this will only add fuel to the independence side of the debate.

    218. Ruby says:

      http://tinyurl.com/grwrtez

      Link to Holyrood TV archive of debates held in the chamber.

      I’m hoping today’s debate will appear soon.

      If anyone is bored they could refresh this link to see when it appears that is if you think I’m looking in the right place.

    219. manandboy says:

      PS. It’s going to be a long wait till ScotRef. I’m going to need to find a ‘job’ in the Independence Campaign.

    220. Dr Jim says:

      So in the spirit of goodwill and all things nice, is that war then

      Michelle Mone for FM? I say let her go for it, the comedy value alone would be wonderful

      Looks like the Labour party are going to be applying for the bin jobs the real bin guys are claiming they’re being sacked from but no really

      And on to a two party Scotland with the SNP massively dominant all the time and the Tories get to keep about 18 MSPs with the Greens still popping up now and again with about 10
      Oooh and 2 Liberal Dismalcraps

      I would suggest Theresa May bites the bullet and gives in on this one before the shit hits the fan

      I volunteer for border duty if there’s sweeties in it
      an chips an mibbees ginger

    221. mike d says:

      Manandboy5.27pm. Yes, any nation or people that had an ounce of self respect for themselves, would have chased these carpet baggers out of their country long ago. But then again proudscot buts don’t do self respect. Only servility.

    222. Bill McDermott says:

      I read somewhere that Lesley Riddoch was disappointed with the first day’s debate because it lacked vision.

      I hope she saw both Ben MacPherson and Kate Forbes deliver on the vision thing. To my mind both of them raised the whole tenor of the proceedings.

      I also liked John Swinney’s winding up. It was professional and relevant, making reference to actual turning points in the debate, irrespective of party.

    223. Bill McDermott says:

      Just another thought. It is clear that the Tory tactic is to create the meme that the people of Scotland don’t want a referendum. It will be interesting to see whether that stands up in the light of further opinion polls.

      In the debate they went one better by declaring that Ruthie tops Nicola in popularity and even that Theresa May is now more popular than Nicola. Deluded or what!

    224. Iain says:

      Today is a great day for Scotland and the beginning of the end for yoondom.

    225. mike d says:

      Opinion polls bill? I think we are all wise as to how they work out.

    226. K1 says:

      I think London just showed their hand:

      ‘What Mundell said about how London will block Scottish independence referendum until early 2020s

      This is what David Mundell, the Scottish secretary, told the BBC.

      We won’t be entering into any negotiations at all until the Brexit process is complete. Now is the time for the Scottish government to come together with the UK government, work together to get the best possible deal for the UK, and that will mean for Scotland, as we leave the EU.

      The key phrase is “until the Brexit process is complete”.

      Mundell was then asked if that meant until the UK had left the EU.

      And this is where he significantly toughened London’s stance. He said “until the Brexit process is complete” did not just mean until the UK leaves the EU (by March 2019). He said it meant until any transitional period was over too. Given that most estimates about the likely length of a transitional period are from two to five years, that means he is ruling out talks about a second referendum until the early 2020s.’

      Hmmm…the real battle has just commenced.

    227. K1 says:

      All this from Guardian this past few moments

      Fuller summary:

      ‘David Mundell, the Scottish secretary, has indicated that the UK government will block a Scottish independence referendum until the early 2020s. (See 5.45pm.) He was speaking after the Scottish parliament voted for an SNP motion telling Nicola Sturgeon to open talks with London about holding one. The motion was passed by 69 votes to 59 votes. Mundell’s comments go significantly further than what Theresa May has said about this in the past, because she only appeared to firmly rule out a referendum before March 2019.

      The Scottish Conservatives have claimed that Sturgeon’s decision to call a referendum has backfired on her. Speaking in the debate the Conservative MSP Murdo Fraser said Sturgeon expected that she would gain popularity in Scotland when May refused her request for a second referendum. He went on:

      Well, there has indeed been a surge in support. But it’s not a surge in support for independence. But it’s a surge in support for Theresa May. Because Nicola Sturgeon has achieved something remarkable for an SNP politician and the first minister of Scotland. She has boosted the popularity of a Conservative prime minister with the people of Scotland. She has created the situation where the first minister is not just less popular than Ruth Davidson. She is now less popular than Theresa May with the people of Scotland. (See 5.03pm for the figures.)

      Sturgeon has said that, if London refuses to engage in talks on a second referendum, she will return to the Scottish parliament after the Easter recess “to set out the steps the Scottish government will take to progress the will of parliament”

      This is where we are. Bring it fucking on.

    228. ephemeraldeception says:

      Slightly O/T

      Even with this oil find, the UK pound is going to go lower towards parity with the dollar, or lower, increasing import costs. Nothing can stop that but I guess this will mitigate things.

      However if Scotland leaves the UK the pound will likely tank. If we peg to the pound the Scottish balance of trade will then in theory help the pound but it will still tank.

      The question is, is that good thing? We could peg to dollar, Euro, or free float our own currency. In the interests of stability, pegging to the dollar may be better in the short term….

    229. Dan Huil says:

      It seems that Westminster actually believes the dodgy polling about people in Scotland supposedly not wanting a referendum and holding May in higher esteem than the FM.

      This britnat arrogance and ignorance can only benefit the independence movement in Scotland.

    230. Sandy says:

      Watching “Ruth the Truth” on STV news interview. Were the dogs heckling her for talking a load of S—.

    231. Les Wilson says:

      ephemeraldeception says:

      I would not recommend pegging with the pound, nor the dollar either. Debt is the problem, Sterling £1.7 trillion, US dollar $20 trillion. Both these do not included normal debt ie pensions for a start. There is likely according to financial experts,an almighty crash in America in the next year or two but could happen anytime.

      The UK has the same problems, and is basically insolvent just like USA. There are stronger and more stable currencies around to peg to. But if this crash comes as predicted, nothing will really protect us, but stable currencies are likely to rebound quicker.

    232. Dan Huil says:

      Westminster’s immediate refusal to talk to Holyrood about a future referendum means one thing: Holyrood must by-pass Westminster and hold referendum/independence talks with the EU.

    233. Capella says:

      What a relief that the vote is over and the real campaigning can begin. Hearing the lies pouring out of the Unionist MSPs today and the astonishing rudeness of Ruth Davidson was truly appalling. Their arrogance is boundless.

      David Mundell seeks to rule out a referendum for years to come. I wonder what the EU negotiators think of that scenario.
      Easter will be interesting when Nicola comes back with her response should Westminster prove intransigent.

      Re comments about the new oil discoveries – someone upthread suggested the pound would be bolstered by this. Perhaps that is why they have had to announce it now, the day before the BREXIT article 50 letter goes out.

    234. bugsbunny says:

      Just watched Scotland Today. Couldn’t hear anything because of an annoying yapping bitch at the end. The dog yelping in the background nearly drowned the bitch out. That bitch being Ruth Davidson.

      So there is no mandate from the Scottish Population and from the Scottish Parliament? So 46.5% SNP vote plus 6.6% Greens vote that equals 53.1% is NOT A MAJORITY according to UNTruth Davidson and a 10 seat majority in Parliament is not either? Well Davidson, WTF IS A MAJORITY THEN?

      That woman give me the dry boak.

    235. Graeme says:

      Watching the big debate today it struck me that the Scottish parliament will never serve the Scottish people properly until we settle the constitutional question for once and for all and the only way to settle that question permanently is independence.

      Even if the unionists win indyref2 the independence question will still be there and parliament will still be polarized between the 2 it will never go away

      It is holding our country back because our parliament is infested with self serving agents of a foreign power serving their paymasters in London and their own political careers instead of those who foolishly elect them

      That said I’m not even convinced our sovereignty should be a straight 50/50 question I would say if as much as 25% (or even less) of Scots wish their country to be independent then that should be enough just because half the country wish to bequeath servitude to their children and grandchildren doesn’t mean the other half should have to suffer it, it’s not all about us

      Graeme

    236. dakk says:

      Just seen a clip of a very aggressive Ruth Davidson verbally attacking Scotlands First Minister.

      Not very becoming.

      Is she maybe on male hormones,or perhaps it was just a typical aggressive British bully characteristic unleashed?

      Either way,what a disgrace to Scottish democracy that big girl is.

    237. robin says:

      email from Nicola
      It’s time to put an end to the Tory blocking tactics.

      wonder what she has in mind

    238. galamcennalath says:

      This is a decision for those living in Scotland to take about Scotland’s future. It should be free from London interference.

      The same should have been true in 2014. If it had been left to Scots, with the broadcasters staying neutral, and Westminster staying out of it, we would now be independent. Our neighbours would be talking about Engexit and we would be concerned about borders in the way Ireland currently is.

      This current situation wasn’t cause by Brexit, it was caused by Westminster and their lackies in 2014.

      I await with interest the EU’s position on Scotland’s future. I am pretty certain the EU will want the ‘Scottish issue’ and the ‘Northern Ireland issue’ to be sorted out as part of the resolution of Brexit.

    239. Breeks says:

      K1 says:
      28 March, 2017 at 6:01 pm
      “I think London just showed their hand:”….

      I think Nicola has finally started showing hers. Last line in her speech ” The people of Scotland are sovereign, and they will be given a choice on their own future”.

      Block us if you dare Westminster.

      The people of Scotland are sovereign, and the Treaty of Union is hanging by a thread…

    240. yesindyref2 says:

      Ruth Davidson interviewed on STV to the sound of yapping dogs who, to be fair, made much more sense than she did, and were in a better mood as well.

      The Tories are going to need more dummies to spit.

    241. SNP`s Hannah Bardell bringing an important debate to the House of Commons on `Health and Safety in Mining`,

      Labour benches are empty and no Labour Member of Parliament is there to contribute to the debate,

      Dennis Skinner MP is there but not contributing a speech,

      has Labour any connection to the working class or is it just full of the detritus of Oxford or Cambridge?

    242. twathater says:

      Just watching shit stv biased news ,tRuthless being interviewed ??? , allowed to spout mer pish, WEE Scottish dug no willing to listen tae her pishhhh kept interrupting her by barking oan and oan, wiz it Paul’s wee ginger dug, however no matter what, it should get a BIIIIIGGGG bone

    243. heedtracker says:

      Finally 😀

    244. John H. says:

      To call Ruth Davidson and her pals lackies is much nicer than the word I’d like to use.

    245. Macart says:

      A formal approach to Westminster will be made by the Scottish Government in the next few days. They have their wee launch to get past I understand.

      How and ever, make NO mistake, there WILL be a referendum and the intent is to hold this before Brexit is finalized. Section thirty or not, Scotland’s electorate will be given the opportunity to decide their own future and what kind of country they want to live in and leave for future generations.

      We will be given this vote and as last time, a Scottish Government will act on the result. The other team didn’t feel the need to either respect 2014s result, or act upon its pledges and assurances.

      Kinda why we’re here today.

      Worth thinking about for the casual reader.

    246. galamcennalath says:

      Breeks says:

      The people of Scotland are sovereign

      I noticed that too, from here …

      https://news.gov.scot/news/parliament-backs-independence-referendum

      I sense something big is coming next. It’s 20-22 months until we NEED to have ScotRef. However, before EU negotiations even begin, we also need to get Scotland’s position firmly understood by everyone.

    247. Gfaetheblock says:

      On topic.

      Re ‘secret oil fields’, has their been any evidence presented to day that the Westminster government knew about these fields for years and had been suppressing the info? Because it was to conspiracy theory that the No camp laughed at, not the fact that their could be other reserves of oil discovered.

    248. cearc says:

      I think that the EU negotiators may have a different view on democracy than the tories.

      Anyway, we can have a non-binding ref to get a Yes mandate. Then the recovened Scottish Parliament can vote to revoke the Act of Union and the treaty.

    249. K1 says:

      Agreed Breeks…let the battle commence.

    250. Mike says:

      The BBC are saying the Tories are NOW denying Scotland an Indyref until sometime after Brexit is over done and finalised without anybody within the Tory party actually saying that.

      Will somebody tell these disingenuous twats that NOT now doesn’t mean not in 2 years time?

    251. cearc says:

      I doubt that the awful burden of more oil will have much effect on the pound as the markets largely expect Scotland to be independent and not be using Eng£.

    252. One_Scot says:

      If anyone was not sure what side the BBC and BBC Scotland is on with regard to ScotRef, all they need do is watch Jackie Bird being rude and dismissive to John Swinney. She even cut him short just to then interview Ruth Davidson.

      Absolutely shocking behaviour from a publicly funded News channel.

      We really do need to get out of this corrupt and damaging union as soon as possible.

    253. FairFerfochen says:

      Anyone got a link to the ref2 fundraiser?

    254. K1 says:

      The Tory party in the form of Davies Mundell as the SoSofS has stated categorically that London will indeed ‘block’ a referendum till after Brexit, he said it within minutes of the vote.

      ‘David Mundell, the Scottish secretary, has indicated that the UK government will block a Scottish independence referendum until the early 2020s. (See 5.45pm.) He was speaking after the Scottish parliament voted for an SNP motion telling Nicola Sturgeon to open talks with London about holding one. The motion was passed by 69 votes to 59 votes. Mundell’s comments go significantly further than what Theresa May has said about this in the past, because she only appeared to firmly rule out a referendum before March 2019.’

    255. North chiel says:

      Jackie Bird and misreporting team now decamped to Holyrood . Whatever
      happened to the media/ political convention of interviewing the
      government spokesperson last. Or is Ruth Davidson now
      FM ” in waiting” as far as the Pacific Quay cabal is concerned?

    256. TheWasp says:

      BBC around Scotland feature on disreporting now, starring yoons and brexiteers

    257. Brus MacGallah says:

      Text of my Letter to the Presiding Officer of The Scottish Parliament

      Dear Presiding Officer and Deputies,
      I am writing to complain about the behaviour of Ruth Davidson MSP in todays’ debate about a second independent referendum. Specifically about her telling the First Minister to “Sit Down”. This was done to my mind in a rude and disrespectful way. I am asking you to reprimand Ruth Davidson, I feel that this behaviour should not be acceptable anywhere, never mind the Scottish Parliament, never mind to the First Minister of the Scottish Parliament.
      I look forward to your reply

    258. Gfaetheblock says:

      Bugs bunny and Liz – davidson is a bitch

      Dakk – Davidson is on testosterone

      Ken500 – Davidson is a conceited ignoramous

      Scot – Davidson is a sociopath

      Thought this would be a happy day, this really does not bode well for the coming years when there is this level of abuse getting thrown about. Hardly a celebration of democracy!

    259. heedtracker says:

      Ouch, C4 news, Jon Snow, first up Ruth Davidson tells Scotland’s FM to sit down!

      Smell their fear of Scottish democracy:D

    260. Joe Swan says:

      A Mis-reporting Scotland voxpop there that couldn’t find a single person who supported the view that we should have another referendum or we should be independent.

      That’s a bit unusual surely.

      We may as well give up now then (NOT)

    261. TheWasp says:

      Manandboy @5.40

      I went down to the local SNP office earlier to volunteer my services in any capacity, all hands to the pump, and with me being an autumnal guy i can maybe “turn” a few yoon auld farts with some peer pressure

    262. geeo says:

      Now we will find out who in unionist colours are democrats.

      I believe it goes like this….

      “As democrats, although we did not support the SNP motion today, we must accept the will of the Parliament, which has endorsed the will of the Scottish people, and get on with the job of making sure that the Section 30 order is granted as soon as possible and on Scotland’s terms, not a WM government hostile to the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish electorate”.
      …….
      Don’t hold your breath.

    263. HandandShrimp says:

      bugsbunny

      In the crazy world of Struth her 24% of MSPs are the majority because everyone else are just plebs and don’t count.

      The vote was obviously a foregone conclusion helped by May’s inability to work with others. It will be a gift that screws up her own Cabinet and the Brexit negotiations too.

    264. Derick fae Yell says:

      Vestas. The “Shetland stuff” matters to me. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. And I would not see the Scottish independence this Sheltie has worked for for 30 years be born in Partition and threats.

      All of Scotland needs to come with us

    265. Marcia says:

      Joe Swan

      They did the same thing in the last Referendum. The BBC claimed not to have found one voter for Yes in Dundee.

    266. Mike says:

      Jesus H Christ now Channel 4 are stating as fact that Teresa May has kicked an Indyref into touch.

      No she fucking hasn’t! She has done nothing but AVOID committing herself to that course.

      Fucking bastard media.

    267. Marcia says:

      Fairferfochan

      Here is a link to the fundraiser.

      https://www.ref.scot/donate?mc_cid=3c3d79bec0&mc_eid=517e622bdd

    268. yesindyref2 says:

      Strage how so much of the Unionist Media quotes Mundell, when he can’t even quote himself. The guy isn’t so much in the loop as regards May’s decisions as in a loop.

    269. Brian Powell says:

      heedtracker

      I’m certain that the ‘sit down’ bit was a fix, she was going to use it at some point, for the TV ‘news’.

    270. alexicon says:

      Mike, I do believe that channel 4 is owned by the uk government.

    271. FairFerfochen says:

      Much appreciated Marcia.

    272. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Just found out Robert Peston left the BBC to go to ITV )I’m a bit slow). What’s the buzz? Will he be able to be fairly dispassionate about the Indy Ref?

    273. ronnie anderson says:

      Best birthday present I could ever have , ave goat ah Morello Cherry Pie fur effta ma dinner.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnkS1BciZis

      That wiz ah collective motion by the yoons in Holyrood today, shitting themselves.

    274. heedtracker says:

      I’d not say anything to a beeb ligger out and about for their vox pops, would you? “Hello I’m from BBC Scotland and want to know how you feel about…ok how far would you like us to go away?”

      Comic relief,

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-i-will-emigrate-if-brexit-is-a-disaster-a7653786.html

    275. Andy-B says:

      If Theresa May continues to be obstinate over a second indy vote, could we not just go ahead and hold a non binding vote?

      Afterall wasn’t the EU in out vote, a non binding one? And look where that’s left us.

    276. john young says:

      Westminster and their cohorts don,t have to lie,the compliant unionist/orange brigade will turn anything and I mean anything positive about Scotland on it,s head,they will not recognise our potential because they live in a bubble,they sacrifice the future of their children/grandchildren at the alter of Queen and country,it is beyond rationale.

    277. Doug Mcg says:

      The wee bearded one has been called on as sub to take the shitstorm , keep your real anger for Cruella , she will break.

    278. Nana says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Many happy returns Ronnie xx

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR9i-Mjjsws

    279. TheWasp says:

      Doug McG

      I read that and thought you meant Truthless Harrison ?

    280. robertknight says:

      Divisive.

      Division.

      Divide.

      Davidson’s buzz words for the coming months, to be repeated ad nauseum by a faithful Yoon media.

    281. Macart says:

      @ronnie anderson

      A sprightly 21 going on 22. A cheeky fizzy pop for after dessert?

      You know you want to. 😉

    282. Legerwood says:

      Joe Swan 7.03

      Reporting Scotland

      As soon as I saw that the vox pop was going to come from a bowling club full of old men I did not bother watching it since the result was obviously a foregone conclusion – people of Scotland are against another referendum.

      No attempt to interview young(er) people.

    283. ScottishPsyche says:

      Once in a generation – supposedly ‘promised’ by a leader who lost the last referendum and who has resigned.

      Imagine the next UK government bound by ‘promises’ made by the previous government’s leader who had resigned? No, I can’t either.

    284. Thepnr says:

      I believe that there is as much oil West of Shetland as there is in the North Sea, possibly more. It’s true that getting at it is a bit harder but not much so now, it’s possible and Scotland on it’s own has the people and skills to do that.

      More importantly we also have the people and skills to grow our economy alongside increasing oil production. There is absolutely no reason that ship building couldn’t equal that of Norway’s or any other European country.

      A Scotland remaining in the single market while rUK exits will bring huge boosts to our economy. There’s no doubt that inward investment by all types of companies will occur including much from the rest of the UK.

      All we really need now is to vote for Independence and it’s a done deal.

    285. Nana says:

      O/T

      Alyn Smith MEP encouraging German business to come to Scotland

      video here
      https://twitter.com/dw_europe/status/846784753391013891

      James Kelly says Theresa May wants to hold Scotland hostage within Brexit Britain

      http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/theresa-may-wants-hold-scotland-hostage-within-brexit-britain-1614170?utm_campaign=/theresa-may-wants-hold-scotland-hostage-within-brexit-britain-1614170

    286. Capella says:

      @ ronnie – so you were born on this historic day, happy birthday and enjoy your morello cherry cake. 🙂

    287. starlaw says:

      Right now for the council elections.

      Watching Rude Davidson today gave me the idea to keep stirring her up. Make her come across in public for what she really is .. an arrogant stuck up bully. If SNP members can get her going often enough, it will be no bad thing.

    288. Liz Rannoch says:

      O/T slightly.

      Daughter says there’s something in the Times (she thinks) about UK gov by law has to offer N Ireland a referendum if it wants to stay in the EU with S Ireland. huh?

    289. scunner says:

      @ Joe Swan
      A Mis-reporting Scotland voxpop there that couldn’t find a single person who supported the view that we should have another referendum or we should be independent.

      At least one of these was peddling the falsehood that independence in the EU means just changing bosses from Westminster to Brussels.

      He plainly has no idea how little the EU `control` and what the UK is supposedly `taking back`. We need to be out there ready with facts to contradict this dumb notion.
      We have no more control of the media than we had in 2014 – it`s going to be a hard slog.

    290. Croompenstein says:

      Oh FFS… Red torys oot…

      Dear Friend

      Tonight, SNP MSPs forced through a vote for another divisive independence referendum.

      I am clear – Scotland does not want and does not need another referendum. I believe that together we’re stronger.

      If you do just one thing today, please sign the togetherstronger.scot pledge and add your voice to those calling on the SNP to drop its plan for another divisive referendum and instead focus on the job of governing.

      Yours sincerely

      Kez

      Kezia Dugdale
      Leader of the Scottish Labour Party

    291. caz-m says:

      Ronnie Anderson

      Happy Birthday Big Man.

      Have a good one.

    292. Robert Louis says:

      I really do think the FM needs to wrtie to the PM requesting section 30, if the answer is NO, then let us get on with it anyway.

      It really is time the SNP stopped trying to negotiate or compromise. Westminster is taking the utter p*ss, and will continue doing so, until something is done.

      Let’s just end this waffle about compromise eh? Westminster does NOT compromise. It will eventually start to make the FM look extremely foolish, continually looking to compromise against a bit fat loud NO.

    293. Thepnr says:

      @Liz Rannoch

      This is true and is written into the Good Friday agreement, Northern Ireland can have a referendum at any time of it’s choosing if it want’s to reunite Ireland.

    294. Snode1965 says:

      I see that the *internationalist* Labour party voted against EU citizens getting a vote in Scotref…

    295. Thepnr says:

      @Robert Louis

      I very much doubt that the FM has any plan to compromise at all.

      Nope, she has another plan all ready for when May tells her that Scotland will not be getting a Section 30 order “at this time”.

      Then I think the rUK will get a big skelp from Scotland’s FM and it will be sorely felt. The FM has went into this knowing that an agreement on Section 30 was unlikely.

      Hang on to your seat the ride might be bumpy!

    296. caz-m says:

      I know it’s a bit like telling somebody to give up smoking after they had smoked 40 a day for years.

      But try to avoid watching ANY teatime news bulletins on the telly.

      It really does make a difference.

      I still catch up with the news at other times but the teatime news bulletin shapes your whole mood for the rest of the night.

      So I would suggest that it is best avoided. IMO ta!

    297. louis.b.argyll says:

      Thepnr..
      It has been known for some time that West Shetland has greater potential than the North Sea ever had.

      Problem is, the UK establishment and their global banking friends, feel more entitled to the benefits than most Scots.

      The Tories exist to fuel establishment greed, and maintain privilege.

    298. schrodingers cat says:

      It’s true that getting at it is a bit harder but not much so now, it’s possible and Scotland on it’s own has the people and skills to do that.

      yes and no alex
      in the 70’s, we were limited to drilling on the shelf off of aberdeen, 12 miles out
      we can now drill at almost any depth. the good news is that most of the new wells will be subsea, negating the need for platforms. it is the maintainance costs of these old platforms which increase the overall cost per bbl of getting the oil out of the ground in the north sea.

      the hurricane oil announcements are very good news for the oil industry……. and for scotland

    299. Sandy says:

      Back to oil. There is a reserve not far from the Hurricane find west of Shetland, reckoned to be 3x the size of the Forties, discovered more than 25 years ago, by Amerada Hess. The day it was announced, within hours it was withdrawn.This has been kept under wraps since, because of depth of water. Technology was not available at that time to exploit it.
      Also, seismic surveys were carried out, as mentioned earlier, by BP from about Mull to down the Ayrshire coast with extremely positive results. After spending millions BP then “lost” the results around July, August, September, 2014 only to find them a couple of days or so before 18th September,2014.
      How many brown envelopes were shuffling about, I wonder.
      Labour, Tory, makes no difference. Westminster “generals” come first.

    300. caz-m says:

      Re Northern Ireland,

      They are also being given until after Easter to decide if they want direct rule from London or not.

      “Northern Ireland Secretary Brokenshire: We do not want to see a return to direct rule but ‘window of opportunity is short’

      http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-secretary-brokenshire-we-do-not-want-to-see-a-return-to-direct-rule-but-window-of-opportunity-is-short-35571574.html

      Treeza is going to be very busy after Easter. The Union is collapsing around her ears.

    301. Steffano says:

      @caz-m
      It’s the ultimate power we have over the biased media,they canny make us watch it.We should use that power all the time.

    302. Effijy says:

      I received an invitation to meet Neil Findlay an SNP MSP.
      Not certain of what he looks like I typed in his name into google.

      His picture came up with some Wikipedia general info.

      Below this, Wikipedia suggested that I might want to look at other Scottish politicians and presented 19 photos with names, lead by Dim Jim Murphy followed by 14 other Labour
      Party Politicians, and 4 SNP.

      Who would think this is proportionate to the ratios of Scottish Politicians and Parties?

    303. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – defence
      Poor defenceless Scotland, what could we do? Alex Salmond in a rowboat with a shotgun? The T23 Monmouth is being designated as escort for the QE, due to go over to the US for F35-B trials next year (presumably not the only escort). But Harpoon (anti-ship) is planned to be out of service next year, leaving a hole. Meanwhile France and the UK have announced a joint program to replace Harppon and Exocet in the next decade, a key point perhaps “long-range” – the Harpoon has just a 70 nm range.

      This compared to the Norweigan Kongsberg 130 nm of the Naval Strike Missile (NSM) with a long-range version JSM way longer. That’s little old Norway folks, such an insignificant little country. Interestingly the Roald Amundsen, a Fridtjof Nansen frigate built in Spain, carries the NSM and is currently on exercise with Joint Warrior. Perhaps, who knows, there will be some evaluation of this anti-ship missile.

      http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/how-norway-building-one-the-worlds-most-lethal-missiles-it-18696

      Look at the first comment – that could be Scotland.

    304. Liz Rannoch says:

      @ The PNR 8.00

      Lucky them! Thought she was just havering! Thank you.

    305. gerry parker says:

      Scunner at 7:52

      “The Wee Bleu Book”

      http://www.scotlandineurope.eu/wee_bleu_book

    306. Lochside says:

      I am just so fucking angry at the absolute shite that we have to suffer that passes for a media in this country. I watched Jackie Byrd undermining John Swinney in the middle of his explanation regarding the Democratic vote taken by the Sovereign representatives of the Scottish people to have another Referendum by snidely asking him about Cancer figures!

      She then allowed the disgusting drag king that leads the Bastard British Backstabbers party to burble away with a suitably apt pack of curs howling in the background…whether Mundell the jackal was there chewing on a beard is a moot point.

      The vox pox with Cameron Buttle ‘I see no Loyalists only No voters confronting yessers’ 19/9/2014) and some other tosser came up 10:1 No dumbfucks that make up the central casting of clowns that the BBC always have on tap…are they equity members?

      I worked in the North Sea in the ’80s and visited Norway. It was then that I realised the truth: we were being shafted by Westminster and their caledonian lackeys. Thirty odd years later this latest oil find makes me really fear that a gutless population will let themselves be fucked once more. We cannot let this happen!

      The GERS lies and the Oil wealth must be used by the SNP to publicly fight the useless piece of toilet paper masquerading as the Brexit ‘deal’. And the SNP must put our sovereignty first as a nation and its existence as proof in the Act of Union being ours to tear asunder…and fuck Article 30, and flush the sewel motion down the toilet along with Westminster’s pompous selfserving hold on us. Time to get right intae these bastards!

    307. Cadogan Enright says:

      I was working in the Forres Findhorn area during the referendum and there were oil crews staying in the Victoria hotel whose proprietor was a supporter

      They said they had found oil off the West Coast but had been sent home on full pay until after the referendum

      Also spoke about oil in the area were the nuclear subs hang out

      I think I posted it on here at the time

    308. Effijy says:

      I propose that we consolidate the votes of Scots unhappy with the EU with a promise to revisit our position within the EU, once Scotland has control of its own destiny, through independence.

      Should Scotland wish to leave the EU, we can negotiate our own friendly, and working, relationship on our own terms, and with what is best for Scotland, and not putting England First and Last.

      I would also like to see the SNP Government refer to the Top Secret McCrone Reports’ declaration that an independent Scotland could become the 2nd Richest nation, by means of GDP, should they retain all of the North Sea Oil revenues.

      In light of the vast reserves of oil in the North Sea, the Irish Sea, and the new Fields around the Shetland Isles, it should be noted that Scotland again could become the 2nd Richest of nations, as an independent country, or be
      tied to Tory Austerity Cuts for the next 20 years, with debts heading toward £2 Trillion.

      Who in their right mind would take option 2? A Death Wish!

    309. ben madigan says:

      @Thepnr who replied to

      @Liz Rannoch

      This is true and is written into the Good Friday agreement,
      TRUE

      Northern Ireland can have a referendum at any time of

      it’s choosing if it want’s to reunite Ireland.
      NOT TRUE

      Depends on the NI SOS
      Here’s the relevant section

      POLLS FOR THE PURPOSE OF SECTION 1
      1. The Secretary of State may by order direct the holding of a poll for the
      purposes of section 1 on a date specified in the order.
      2. Subject to paragraph 3, the Secretary of State shall exercise the power
      under paragraph 1 if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of
      those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be
      part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland.
      3. The Secretary of State shall not make an order under paragraph 1 earlier
      than seven years after the holding of a previous poll under this Schedule.

      Here’s a copy of the Agreement
      http://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/IE%20GB_980410_Northern%20Ireland%20Agreement.pdf

    310. Big Phil says:

      @call me dave 12.21pm.

      The ‘Eyesore’ you mention is now away. I passed by today. 😉

    311. Joe Swan says:

      @Marcia

      I’ve yet to find a No voter in Dundee. Maybe that’s why they didn’t go there this time.

      @Legerwood

      I was the same but carried on. Got to agree I don’t think there was a single person under 30 ‘chosen’ for their viewpoint.

      @scunner

      It was very heavily pushing the ‘Oh, we’re not to sure about Europe’ agenda. Maybe this is how they are going to play the next 18 months. Which makes this site and others like it extremely important.

      Rev. – I am getting money next month and you are definitely getting some of it. I may not make the crowd-funding deadline but ‘the cheque is in the post’ as they say.

    312. call me dave says:

      @Big Phil

      Excellent!

      Just catching up lots to read scrolling back to 5:30pm.. ish.

      🙂

    313. cearc says:

      Happy birthday,Ronnie.

      And to JDman whose was last week.

    314. Breeks says:

      I don’t see Westminster being daft enough to block a referendum, because you’d think they’d have someone down in London who knows Scotland’s the true nature of Scottish sovereignty. Good heavens, even their Supreme Court has acknowledged it cannot overrule Scottish sovereignty.

      May would be mightily stupid to actively obstruct a referendum, although Westminster has recently acquired something of a reputation in the monumentally stupid department. However, the consequences snowball very quickly. If May obstructs the consultation between the Scottish people and their elected representatives, she is way out on a limb constitutionally.

      At the very least, the Scottish government will hold their own referendum, which makes it an all Scottish affair. It wouldn’t matter a jot whether the Unionists boycotted the vote or refused to recognise the result.

      However the really unpredictable aspect in all of that is at some point, the Scottish government pursuing one issue which the Westminster government opposes has already created a division in the UK parliament, with both respective governments empowered by their own respective sovereignty. When both governments are thus acting independently from one another, where does that leave the Treaties and Act of Union?

      If Theresa May blocks a referendum, the Scottish government then proceed to hold one, then the Scottish government is enacting Scottish sovereignty independently of UK sovereignty, and the United Kingdom parliament ceases to exist.

      There is suddenly no point in having a referendum to become independent when having that referendum is already an act of independent sovereignty.

    315. Roughian says:

      Croompenstein.

      I thought it was Nicola who was meant to launch the Ref2 campaign straight after the vote today.
      Kez just can’t stop herself can she?

    316. manandboy says:

      TheWasp says:
      “I went down to the local SNP office earlier to volunteer my services in any capacity, all hands to the pump, and with me being an autumnal guy i can maybe “turn” a few yoon auld farts with some peer pressure”

      Now that’s what I call ‘initiative’, TheWasp, and I wish you every success. I would be interested in learning precisely what they advised at your local SNP office.

    317. Mike says:

      The BBC has decided to block a second Indyref without consulting with the UK Government.

    318. Col says:

      I’m starting to think that we will never achieve independence so long as the British media brainwashes a still sizeable chunk of the electorate. Our neighbour along with too many of our own people will do anything to keep our resources flowing to the Westminster treasury’s coffers. I’m starting to think that despite the consequences we may have to declare udi at some point.

    319. Mike says:

      @Ben Madigan

      NI doesn’t need to hold a referendum to become Independent they become Independent by default when Scotland votes to end the Joint Parliamentary Union with England and Wales.

      NI is in a Parliamentary union with the Joint Parliament of the UK not with the Parliament of England Wales.

      All they have to do is sit back and wait for Scotland to hand them their Independence on a plate.

    320. Stoker says:

      Some arsehole said….
      http://archive.is/fXcrP

      I’m noting the use of stronger language this time around and BBC gophers such as Glenn Campbell and Sarah Smith are leading the charge with Auld Burd Beak.

    321. Bob Mack says:

      Fellow Wingers. We have a wealth of talent in the SNP. The likes of Nicola, Alex, and Joanna Cherry. They have probably been studying every possible response from Westminster and have looked at every conceivable option. They have probably been doing this in their sleep and would be expecting such a response.

      Just look at the game Nicola has played thus far. Very very impressive. She is by far a better long term strategist than any of us could hope to be. Patience good people.

      I am sure we will find out soon enough how this is going down.

    322. yesindyref2 says:

      Re oil in and off the Clyde, it was the talk of town in the 80s, with offshore workers looking forward to work closer to home. Also talk of a property boom in the area, and of speculators already buying up properties in Ardrossan, figured to be the probable base of operations. Obviously there was also hope of more oil rigs to be built at Hunterston. It all never happened. So far.

    323. Liz Rannoch says:

      Although not on twitter I like a wee ramble occasionally.

      Apparently yoons now have a way of ending any Indy tweeters arguements by telling them to ‘sit down’.

      Over on #ScotRef they seem quite happy wi’ Nicola for effectively stopping Mayhem from bargaining wi’ oor resources.
      They’re also not happy wi’ ‘Rude’ as somebody up thread called her (love it). Not just for her treatment of Nicola but also of Joan McAlpine. One nasty, vile woman.

    324. Whitegold says:

      Indyref vote poorly reported. As expected.
      Didn’t appear on BBC or SKY etc until they let enough time elapse to cement the fact of ‘ yes, look at us ignoring this folks’
      OK. Good. Fair enough, we kinda knew the democratic will of the people would lead us to request a referendum.
      Tomorrow is much the same.
      Anyone here or in the whole country think Brexit wont be triggered tomorrow?
      So will this be a trivial news story?
      Will your SKY news and your BBC not be peeing their pants tomorrow?

    325. Free Scotland says:

      If, as the Express claims, Scotland has a basket-case economy and those poor taxpayers in the rest of the UK are having to help plug the economic gaps for our sake, maybe we should take that burden away from them by becoming an independent country. They would no doubt be very relieved.

      We would be more than happy to sell them all the oil they want, and we could also sell them gas, water, electricity, fish, venison, whisky, wool and forestry products, to name but a few possibilities.

      Also, I’ve heard they like nuclear weapons down there. Well, by pure coincidence, we have a few up here which we would be happy to give them for free.

    326. Big Jock says:

      The absolute arrogance and disrespect of Ruth Davidson. Telling the first minister to sit down. As if the Tories are the government in Scotland and the SNP the opposition.

      The media like to portray it that way but the people know different Ruth. Your end is near as the leader of the union apologists.

    327. Sandy says:

      I’m scratching my head.
      The union of the parliaments,1707 came about as the result of two acts, one of Scotland, however dubious, & of England, resulting in the TREATY of UNION. My interpretation is that if the treaty is broken, one or other can walk away.
      Have the laws incorporated in this treaty been changed or do the conditions of 1707 still stand?
      The Treaty has been broken many times, the one that comes to mind is the poll tax.
      Should this be the case, surely problem solved.

    328. Rock says:

      If the First Minister requests Westminster’s permission tomorrow, how long does Westminster have to reply?

      Given that Saint Theresa has already decided “now is not the time”, there is no reason for a delay.

      Judgement day is near.

    329. Rude Davidson? I like it..

      May’s response is exactly what we wanted.

      They built a oil installation construction yard on Loch Striven in the eighties and I had two guys who stayed at my hotel for ten day examining the Holy Loch and Sandbank harbour area as a possible oil exploration hub. They told me there was any amount of oil between Arran and Ardrossan.

    330. Rock says:

      Davidson is the most disgusting and dishonest politician in Scotland in my long held and expressed view.

      No wonder the BBC, Scotland’s enemy number one, are so proud of her.

    331. Hamish100 says:

      re the ignorant Davidson at Holyrood today. Sadly the Presiding Officer Ken McIntosh did nothing. He could have calmly told Davidson to sit on her erse and to remind her that He was the PO not her and not to get above here station. He chose to ignore her bad behaviour.

    332. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindy2ref send u an email yesterday, did u get it?

    333. Breeks says:

      Wee heads up…

      Our friendly cabbie Chunky Mark is trying to crowd fund Brexshit the Movie.

      https://www.gofundme.com/366qkjb4

    334. Brian Powell says:

      Big Jock

      I’m sure it was a set up, she intended to say it at some point in the debate, for the benefit of the ‘news’.

    335. DerekM says:

      Right shush everybody especially you Nicola we do not want to scare mayhem back under the cabinet desk at least until we actually get the conformation she has signed A50 at last lol

      Ah how wonderful tomorrow will be can you smell it,it smells like freedom 🙂

      Tory yoons be so stupid it is like they can not comprehend that we are watching them like a hawk,i wonder how the buffalo whisperer is liking the Scottish peoples hot seat now.

      Is today the day the slabbers finally became less relevant than the greens and are now looking over their shoulder at wee Willie and his party of irrelevance as competition.

    336. TheWasp says:

      Manandboy boy @ 9.22

      I have been a member of the SNP for years but because of commitments i haven’t participated in meetings or canvassing etc. Last night’s QT, and the propagation of the usual lies ripped my knitting and i felt i had to get with the programme,as it were.

      I went to the constituency office and spoke to a very pleasant young man and woman. I was advised as it was the constituency office i should contact the local branch direct, as they are responsible for canvassing, leafleting etc. I get emails from the branch and was told just to email back stating my availability and what help i was willing to give. They also said that all help is greatly appreciated as the resources they have can only do so much.

      Hope this helps

    337. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ schrodingers cat, re: Oil drilling capabilities

      Yeah, the deepwater semi-submersibles are able to reach a long way. I think Transocean owns them and rents them out to the big companies, but I could be wrong about that.

    338. Legerwood says:

      Sandy @ 9.54 pm

      You have the order of events in the wrong order. Treaty first then the Acts.

      Good article here written around the time of the 300th anniversary

      http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/52-6/1004238.aspx

    339. TheWasp says:

      Just remembered – the last line of the first ministers speech mentions the sovereignty of the Scottish people, maybe a wee clue about “the plan”

    340. manandboy says:

      CHANGE IS COMING – YOU CAN BE CERTAIN OF IT

      I think it is probably true to say that whatever happens in the next two years, Scotland will be different – at least to some degree, if only because of the exposure to the Brexit negotiations and the constant stream of reports, views and opinions coming to Scotland directly from the European Union.

      I would disregard completely the UK Government’s version of Brexit negotiations, in its output of propaganda, fake news, smears and lies, which are part and parcel of living with UK TV and Press. It will seek, as always, to completely distort the truth about the negotiations, and can be safely ignored.

      It is also true to say that two years is a long time in politics, as indeed in life in general. In any two year period, unforeseeable events usually happen and often with significant consequences. And remember, ‘There’s many a slip ‘twixt cup and lip’. Two years is a long time for Mrs May to keep things together especially under the kind of pressure she is going to be under.

      Aaand, she will persevere with the Tories big current rip-off, Austerity, which Osborne sold us as a means to reduce the National Debt, now since doubled, but of course it was always just another Unionist trick to transfer wealth from the taxpayers to the elite 1%, by cutting budgets which benefited those in need. More austerity will only bring more suffering to more people, making the Westminster Government more unpopular.

      Finally, whatever happens, there can be no going back to the way we were before 2012. Too much has come to light. The Union is gradually becoming ‘The Divorce’. Stability has become restlessness and dissatisfaction.
      The genie is out of the bottle, and getting bigger every day.

      Theresa May’s new globally successful Britain could happen, but I suspect if it does, it’ll be a computer game.

      The biggest change will be of course Scottish Independence. Each of us must do our best to make it happen, no matter what is thrown at us in Westminster’s propaganda war. I’m sure we’ll make it this time.

    341. Dorothy Devine says:

      Just caught up with events and Ronnie’s birthday – happy Birthday Ronnie and many more!

    342. Robert Louis says:

      So, here’s a thing, as the old saying goes, the devil is in the detail. Whilst London and it’s media puppets like the blatantly biased broadcasting company’s Sarah Smith glibly chatter about the Scottish parliament passing a motion requesting a referendum on independence, I think we can safely assume nobody down south, and especially NOT in Westminster has actually READ the motion the SNP drafted (I do not know if the final version passed was the same).

      If we read it, we can clearly see that it re-asserts and confirms the claim of right, and that sovereignty within Scotland resides with the people of Scotland (unlike in England). It also asserts that it is the right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government that best suits their needs.

      This was passed by the democratically elected Parliament of Scotland. It is very clear in its intent, and what it asserts.

      The Scottish Government motion as presented to the Scots Parliament. (My bolding).

      “That the Parliament acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs and therefore mandates the Scottish Government to take forward discussions with the UK Government on the details of an order under section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 to ensure that the Scottish Parliament can legislate for a referendum to be held that will give the people of Scotland a choice over the future direction and governance of their country at a time, and with a question and franchise, determined by the Scottish Parliament, which would most appropriately be between the autumn of 2018, when there is clarity over the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, and around the point at which the UK leaves the EU in spring 2019.

    343. One_Scot says:

      I firmly believe now that the only way Theresa May can stop Scotland becoming Independent is by not allowing us to have it, by whatever means, fair or foul, she has at her disposal.

      Can’t say it feels like a union of equals to me.

    344. jfngw says:

      16th Mar Davidson
      ‘I choose to put this parliament first’

      28th March
      Agrees with May that Scottish Parliament should be ignored

    345. Jim says:

      It looked like someone let Winston from Still Game into the Scottish parliament when James Kelly made his speech, I also had to turn the colour down on my tv as his face was getting redder and redder.

      Also, did he have a wee drinky poo before he entered the chamber?

    346. Jim says:

      Just to be fair I thought Sandra White looked like Ivy Tildsley from Coronation street.

    347. heedtracker says:

      BBC Newsnight tories already pushing Davis promising Scotland more and more ex EU powers, all the fish and farm powers you can ever want, not all of them, just some. Rejoice. No idea what some fish and farm powers are, or even all of them.

    348. ben madigan says:

      @ Mike who replied:
      28 March, 2017 at 9:34 pm

      “NI doesn’t need to hold a referendum to become Independent they become Independent by default when Scotland votes to end the Joint Parliamentary Union with England and Wales. . . . .”.

      I hope you are right!!!
      Would be too good to be true!!

      In any case this is what we know at present:
      Scotland moved towards a second referendum on independence. Which Westminster refused on timing grounds.
      FM Sturgeon will react to the objections after Easter recess.

      NI has no local government. There are no signs that Stormont will ever return

      The UK is opening brexit negotiations tomorrow minus the support of two of its peripheral territories and with Wales wanting to muscle in on the break-up.
      Talk about spanners in the works!

      Furthermore some councillor to the EU parliament?/Council? (can’t find ref) suggested Scotland and NI be kept in the EU until they can have their respective Border Poll/IndyRef2

      The EU has a duty of care etc for EU citizens. That doesn’t mean only the EU people here and UK immigrants(pardon ex-pats) there.
      It also means people in Scotland and NI who majority voted to Remain in the EU.

    349. Hamish100 says:

      BBC Scotland News announcer Fiona McLeod (The First Minister has a mandate now) Yip heard it – checked it out definitely said it. Must be true.

      Are you listening brexiters Dugdale Davidson Rennie?

      Of course not- You do not have a mandate.

    350. Training Day says:

      Think I just heard Tory nematode Annie Wells say on Scotland Tonight that she does not respect the will of the Scottish Parliament.

      That’s the parliament to which she was elected on a couple of thousand votes to earn a very nice salary indeed.

      By the way, Colin ‘it isn’t binding, I’m not sure where the Scottish Government go from here’ McKay on Scotland Tonight may forge a career as the new Nick Robinson. Keep an eye on this budding uber-Unionist.

    351. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Ah, sorry schrodinger, my post was tautological – you already mentioned Transocean, and lots more besides.

    352. Hamish100 says:

      if an MSP doesnt respect the Scots parliament resign. Very simple.

    353. manandboy says:

      Seriously, is Theresa May … well let me put it this way, most people don’t write or speak like this.

      Tomorrow, the letter signalling the triggering of Article 50 will be delivered to Mr Donald Tusk. Mrs May signed the letter today, so the BBC tells us.

      Mrs May will meet with MP’s tomorrow, when she will:-

      “She will promise to “represent every person in the whole United Kingdom” during the negotiations – including EU nationals, whose status after Brexit has yet to be settled.

      “It is my fierce determination to get the right deal for every single person in this country,” she will say.

      “For, as we face the opportunities ahead of us on this momentous journey, our shared values, interests and ambitions can – and must – bring us together.”

      I take it she is referring to the UK when she speaks of ‘this country’, except of course that the UK is NOT a country.

      It is impossible to get the right deal for every single person in the UK. This is fantasy-speak, quite apart from the fact that at least 16 million UK citizens wish to remain EU citizens also. Not one of those 16 million is going to get the right deal.

      In this endeavour, Mrs May has now moved from determination to fierce determination. I just wonder what actually is the difference – and will her fierce determination remain constant throughout the entire two year period. Some how I doubt it.

      She speaks of our shared values, interests and ambitions can – and must- bring us together.
      So the Establishment, the British wealthy elite, the 1%, have the same values, interests and ambitions as the 99%, including the poor, the homeless and the just getting
      by-ers. This is delusional. It just does not represent reality in the UK today.

      Kezia, can you help. You’ll be able to sympathise. Thanks.

    354. North chiel says:

      Absolute cracker on ” ITN news at 10″ spoof reply letter reply addressed to Mrs May from EU in response to her article 50 letter.
      Dear Mrs May ” now is not the time”

    355. jfngw says:

      What a day. The enjoyment of watching the yoonirati dial the anger up to 11.

    356. Flower of Scotland says:

      Training Day@10.47

      Just quickly turned off STV. Same stuff from uber Britnat Colin McKay.

      Was at a wee talk tonight by Richard Drysdale who wrote “State of Emergency” It is so relevant to the politics of today. It’s about what happens when Scotland votes YES in an Independence Referendum and how the “deap” British State deals with it. You might like to try it.

      Happy Birthday Ronnie! Great wee present from Nicola for you today!

    357. heedtracker says:

      Fuck sake beeb gimps on Newsnight still giving neo fascist Le Pen endless BBC style tory arse licking. They really have gone tory barking mad in that outfit. Le Pen slagging off the EU and Merkel, who’s party won huge state elections this week. Probably keeps the Ligger happy, in his giant bed of newly slaughtered baby seal furs at home.

    358. geeo says:

      Car crash tv on scotland tonight…!

      “If now is not the time, when is the time”?

      “The time is…not now”….dear god ?

    359. Golfnut says:

      Just a quick question.
      Is it possible to have a Presiding officer removed, Davidson’s and her supporters lack of respect for fellow msp’s and the FM.
      Surely unacceptable behaviour.

    360. Wullie B says:

      Ach, I just hope the future doesnt resemble the dysotopian/ postapocalyptic novel released tomorrow on Amazon called Highland Hunger Call to Arms by W.J. Watt, A British state refusing Scottish independence after a referendum resulting in a civil war by oathkeeper type guys

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XS1Y2MH/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1490200136&sr=1-2&keywords=Highland+hunger

    361. geeo says:

      Annie wells….tory lister.

      As if the above wasn’t funny enough, she bettered it right after…

      Annie Wells…”they have a mandate in SNP scottish government, but they dont have a mandate of the people…”

      “The SG are there because the Scottish people put them there…”

      AW…..”the SNP government are there as a maj…minority government who lost their majority”

      Eh…whit !!

    362. crazycat says:

      @ Ronnie

      Happy Birthday! (what’s left of it – I’m only just in time)

      I hope you got a card from Donalda.

    363. bilptoe says:

      Wrecksit

      My understanding is as follows;

      When we joined the EU we joined as the UK as a whole.
      The ref question was framed in the UK context that we leave as a whole.

      If the UK union were to be dissolved (end of the Union) and scotland left before the end of Brexit negotiations there would be no UK to exit out of the EU.

      This would leave england & wales in a state of limbo and unable to exit.

      Scotland may well have westminster by the balls here and this is why they want to wait until after the EU exit before agreeing to a scotref2. It’s a trap.

      If Scotland left before the final deal there would be no final deal.

    364. Liz g says:

      @ Ronnie Anderson
      Happy Birthday Ronnie,and many more of them X

    365. Training Day says:

      Confirmed – Wells did indeed say she does not respect the sovereignty of the parliament in which she sits.

      @Flower of Scotland – thanks, will try Drysdale’s work.

    366. manandboy says:

      NICOLA LAYS IT ON THE LINE

      She added: “I hope the UK government will respect the will of this parliament(and accept article 30). If it does so, I will enter discussion in good faith and with a willingness to compromise.

      “However, if it chooses not to do so (AND REJECTS ARTICLE 30) I will return to the parliament following the Easter recess to set out the steps that the Scottish government will take to progress the will of parliament.”

    367. caz-m says:

      The Tories have taken away your right to hold a Referendum whenever your Parliament agrees to have one and the are also going to strip you of your EU Citizenship.

      Just like that!!!

      And they expect us to sit back and accept it.

    368. Hamish100 says:

      Grandson and granddaughter aged 15 and 16 are to vote.Hurrah!

      2 x YES2 already.

      Let us calm the fears of English Welsh and Irish voters to support us.
      Lets get a few of the no voters from 2014 to join our campaign for self determination.

      Lets encourage our EU friends to vote.

      Lets have stricter rules of those who may be proxy/ postal/ Holiday home voters as we know the tories break the electoral rules with impunity.

      Scotland needs us.

    369. Still Positive says:

      A just belated Happy Birthday to Ronnie. Hope you have had a good day. 🙂

    370. Training Day says:

      Confirmed – Annie Wells did indeed say she did not respect the sovereignty of the parliament in which she sits.

      @Flower of Scotland – thanks, will try Drysdale’s work

    371. caz-m says:

      Colin Mackay Interview with Annie Wells on a loop.

      Amazing scoop from @STVColin tonight. The Tories ” don’t accept the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament ”

      https://twitter.com/SNPChris/status/846851416882888704

    372. Wullie B says:

      Totally off topic (kind of)
      This is the book I mentioned earlier by a new Scottish author, obviously an independence supporter

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XS1Y2MH/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1490200136&sr=1-2&keywords=Highland+hunger
      The decision to leave the European Union sparked a conflict which would change the world forever.
      The Scottish Patriots, an underground guerrilla organisation, began their campaign to free their country from the economic downfall they feared, sparked into civil war by political assassinations.
      Their enemy responded in a way that nobody could have foreseen; a dangerous biological weapon was unleashed, designed to kill them quickly and quietly, but the unpredictable events that unfolded threatened borders and allegiances in a way that none of them thought possible.

    373. jfngw says:

      Who is going to break it to Annie Wells that by using her definition of mandate of the people, the EU referendum is invalid as it only has support of 37% of the voting electorate at WM. That is MP’s elected with a referendum promise in their manifesto.

      These Tories are dim, trying to argue that 37% is more of a mandate than 44%.

    374. Iain More says:

      Well I hope Machiavelli May continues to object to Indy Ref. I also hope that the boot Davidson continues to spout her bile.

      OT

      @Dan Huil

      The Howff is the better pub despite the poorer choice of beers compared to McGintys. it also has a cosy ambience to it.

    375. Still Positive says:

      caz-m @12.03

      Wow from Annie Wells MSP. She claimed last week that people in the East End of Glasgow changed from SNP to Tory. Think most of the Tory votes were in the West End and the leafy suburbs of Glasgow.

      If she does not respect the vote of the Scottish Parliament she should not be there.

      However, if she is forced out, by whatever means, she will undoubtably claim it is because she is a Lesbian.

      Nothing could be further from the truth as SNP MPs are the ‘gayest’ party in the UK Parliament. And Scotland, wholeheartedly supports ‘Gay Rights’ throughout the UK and beyond.

      She, like most Tories in Scotland, is clutching at straws.

    376. Dr Jim says:

      Lots of people talking about Annie Wells tonight and they’re right to and it’s about time

      It was when she said “djae want salt n vinegar wae that” to Colin McKay
      I knew where I recognised her from

      But why is she in my parliament talking to actual people about..stuff, and not at her real job

      Joan McAlpine sounds positively poash compared to the “Chippy” wummin so how did she get past the Ruth Tory selection board of accents
      She’d better watch her back now that she’s found out her boss is an accentist with a downer on, well everybody that isn’t her

    377. Hamish100 says:

      Lochside

      Hope you feel better after the rant.

      Now back to reality.

      Unionists need to be tackled head on true, but not by being hot headed. That helps them but not our cause.

      LET THEM RANT AND RAVE- it makes them look silly and the undecided won’t wish to be associated with them. Use humour- they hate that.
      YfS

    378. Training Day at 10.46

      Are you serious??? Colin McKay was superb tonight getting that wee squeak to oppose democracy at every answer.

    379. carjamtic says:

      The Buffalo Rider in is tonight’s spotlight.

      As a former sort of trainee,we all wondered how she would get on this big debate,now she is a fully trained branch manager,we soon found out.

      A desperately insulting,disrespectful performance by the Ruth Davidson Party.

      Ruth Davidson and her sidekick Murdo Fraser cameo’s,appearing as a Ruth C Nesbit and Jamsie Fraser (c/w manky vest and big lapels) was not just grossly insulting,not just a wee bit wide of the mark and not just plain wrong,but on so,so many levels,it is hard to know where to start.

      Insulting to both the Holyrood Parliament and the wider Scottish viewing public,this very public humiliation for them,will live long in the Scottish history of wrongness and as if we didn’t need any more reasons to dislike them,they got ‘lounge room lizard’ aggressive with it,to boot.

      I don’t know who’s been coaching them (the eggmeister ?) but they fell a long way short of anything that is even close to being acceptable,regarding standards of Parliamentary Behaviour in Scotland (they could make it,as a comedy double act and scrape a living,treading the boards,of the old Empire Ballroom’s in the sandy towns down south,appealing as they do,to both,solitary blue tits and robin redbreast feeders or maybe even as bit part players in the Hammer House of Horrors movies).

      A tragic case of believing your own media hype,but under the spotlight and on the biggest stage of them all and despite all the coaching,all the well practised interview techniques and all the free television publicity ,they failed spectacularly and on failing they reverted to type,to their default mode…..as an unfunny, bottom of the bill music hall act,that has no place on any big stage in Scotland,we wish them every success,a classic case if ever there was one,of don’t call us,we’ll call you.

      (Incidentally the very public calling out for Kneel Findlay to replace Kezia Dugdale,left a very bad smell)

      #MoneyForOldBullAndBush

    380. Proud Cybernat says:

      GALLAS – The 40 year fleecing of Scotland’s oil wealth by Westminster:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP2LnW2vsdw&feature=youtu.be

    381. manandboy says:

      Article 30 yesterday, article 50 today.

      For England, only one question remains.
      Can we hijack Scottish Independence.

      In Scotland, only one question remains.
      Can we stop England from hijacking Independence.

    382. defo says:

      Looked into this pre 2014.
      BP didnae lay a f-off great pipe network out there for nothing.

      If your looking for positives from this sorry day, do you think the performance of our yoon MSPs, esp listicles like Murdo & Wells, never mind the party ‘leaders’, will gain, or lose them votes at the upcoming local elections ?
      🙂

    383. Ghillie says:

      Robert Louis @ 10.31 pm

      Thank you for that extract from the Scottish Government’s motion for a section 30, including the Sovereignty of the Scottish people and their right to choose the government that will represent their wishes.

      It is now feeling to me that our Scottish Government and our Parliament is not so much a devolved parliament but our Sovereign Parliament, equal to Westminster, which is now moving to regain powers and rights that for 300odd years have been taken from the people of Scotland and that should now be returned.

      We speak of OUR Parliament and it is the other parliament down in London that has to be described by location or name of the building in order to clarify of which we speak.

      THAT is a major shift in the way WE, the people of Scotland are now seeing OUR Parliament.

      Roll on Independence = )

      PS Happy Birthday Ronnie (we met on Bruntsfield Links) and everyone else if this is now your special day too 🙂

      Feels like good days from now on!

    384. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – and wouldya credit it – defence again!

      It’s interesting the things you find out when not looking. 4 Typhoons beng sent to Romania as part of air defence. Logistics and Signals already on their way, tons of equipment, spares etc. But here’s the goldarned thang:

      NATO Air Policing, according to the organisation, ensures the integrity of Allies’ airspace and protects Alliance nations by maintaining 24/7 Air Policing.
      The mission is carried out under the NATO Integrated Air and Missile Defence System and for NATO nations that do not have the necessary air capabilities, agreements exist to ensure a standard of airspace security.

      So much for Scotland if we can’t afford enough fast jets, and for the idea we’ll be on our own, invaded by the dread Russkies with nobody lifting a finger to help us.

      So much too considering England is just over the border, for any idea we won’t be straight into NATO with barely time to blink an eyelash or scratch the nose!

      “You want to be part of NATO? Sing here, you’re in”.

    385. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah well. ’tis the middle of the nacht / nicht (see the similarity?).

      http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/royal-air-force-will-deploy-to-romania-27032017

      Ah here we go, something iScotland would need an equivalent of for our own version of QRA – or full access to:

      http://www.armedforces.co.uk/raf/listings/l0016.html

      I did read another about QRA, Boulmer (and Scampton) a long time ago, ironically while someone was “explaining” that QRA North could be moved to Boulmer. Errrr, no, not without a lot of money and time. Look for the runways 🙂

      https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Royal+Air+Force+Boulmer/@55.4225122,-1.6016636,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xde9bb5507a98c2a3!8m2!3d55.4230541!4d-1.6008911

      Ho hum, Unionists don’t like facts up ’em.

      Here’s Boulmer itself for a full set of four, I’m feeling generous:

      http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafboulmer/

    386. mr thms says:

      Looking at the diagram showing the Rona Ridge, could it be that the ridge itself is a long and unbroken reservoir of oil and gas? Notice, how the Rona Ridge extends beyond the Clair Field to the North East, and beyond the Lancaster field to the South West, and that the two giant fields although several kilometres apart are both sitting on the same ridge.

    387. Ghillie says:

      Hallo everybody!

      Happy new morning!

      Well,today is going to be an interesting day, in the nicest possible way 🙂

      I have a very good feeling about what is coming our way = )

    388. Cactus says:

      A merry new morning to you too Ghillie an awe ra best Ronnie 🙂

      Article 50 trigger time digital countdown clock:
      0 centuries, 0 decades, 0 years, 0 months, 0 weeks, 0 days..

      4 and a bit hours remaining, and counting..

      The next article is gonna be a belter.

      MON the 69!

    389. Vronsky says:

      Many years ago (70s/80s) I worked for a company that supplied diesel power to the fishing fleet and diesel generators to the fledgling oil industry. We had a map on the wall that showed the likely sites of oil fields and there was a cluster of flags west of Shetland. When I asked about this they said it would be some time before that oil could be exploited.

      It seems this isn’t new.

    390. Smallaxe says:

      Nana: Good Morning,

      Very dreich today, links will brighten the day. Thank you.Kettle’s on!
      🙂

      Peace Always

    391. Cactus says:

      SO where we all meeting up for the A50 celebration party?!

      Would you prefer Champagne or Cristal?

      ‘Roll on’ Easter.

    392. Ghillie says:

      Hallo Cactus = )

      I have such a good feeling about today onwards!

      Come what may, every day takes us one day closer to Independence = )

      Some of that road ahead may seem a bit rough at times, but WE ARE ON OUR ROAD TO INDEPENDENCE !!

      And what a beautiful road it is! Sun is shining = )

    393. Smallaxe says:

      Ghillie: Good Morning

      The future beckons, one last push for our country and then a lot of hard but rewarding work to make the Scotland that we want and need.

      Cactus:
      We already know what has to be done!
      🙂

    394. g says:

      Vronsky, ditto.

      The discoveries west of Shetland and west of the mouth of the Clyde do not seem unfamiliar to me. Much has been reported here on Wings in recent years but some of this sounds older, back to university years.

      Maybe just suppressed for many years.

      We can all see why now.

      There are many many ‘stories’ that were suppressed over the years that could maybe do with scrutiny now in the cold light of day, given what is becoming clear now.

    395. Cactus says:

      Aye aye, on our road to independence we are 😉

      Smallaxe:
      We already know what has to be done!
      🙂

      Yes! We do…

      “As of the 29th March ’17, I hereby swear my sovereign right to Scotland.”
      Signed, Cactus X.

      Whose next?

    396. Nana says:

      Good morning Smallaxe. It’s a bit dull here weather wise.

      Should the torys block scotref I think Derek Bateman has the right idea on where to go next.
      https://twitter.com/DerekBateman2/status/846774760117800961

    397. Ghillie says:

      Hey there Smallaxe!

      How are you today!?

      Exciting times eh?

      Not the reaction or response May would ever expect = )

      If Scotland was understood, ever, then we would never have been misunderstood in the first place. Ah well, learning curve for Westminster = )

      Big effort for us and then lots of glorious hard work, all to a good common cause, for the folk of Scotland to come = )

      And when have the folk of Scotland EVER shirked hard work?

    398. Cactus says:

      If you swear your right…

      The Scottish Government can then claim you’re right.

      The Claim of Right.

      Scotland.

    399. Ghillie says:

      Cactus, me too = )

    400. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:

      Yes, Derek Bateman does have the right idea on where to go next, we will need as much help as possible to take back what is rightfully ours. Westminster will do its best to hang on to their piggy bank. Fortunately, we are not pigs nor will we be their bank for much longer.

      Some People will not be happy this morning, we have to change a lot of minds and show them what a great country they can have in which to bring their families up. No more begging for crumbs that fall from OUR table.Time to hold our heads high with pride, not hanging in shame for the illegal deaths caused in our name.

      Peace Always

    401. Ken500 says:

      The moment Scottish Independence was won. Davidson telling Nicola to sit down.

      Another put down from minority elected, lying Unionists, as they try to throw the world economy over a cliff, again. Deja Vu,

      Thank goodness now the majority people in Scotland can now sleep at night and are not so anxious and worried. The relief.The SNP Scottish Gov are standing up for them. Now the majority of people in Scotland can truly say, ‘not in their name’ for all the carnage and collateral of Westminster unionists deliberate craven mistakes of Defence/Foreign and domestic policy. Scotland can remain and take their rightfully, protected place among their neighbours of the EU family of Nations. In peace, prosperity and harmony.

      How could a group of craven crooks at Westminster kill, maim and starve so many innocent people in the world. Lie and cheat in a dispute about which one will be PM. The poison chalice, To line their own already greedy pockets with embezzled public money, while starving vulnerable people to death, in a land of plenty.

      The Tories cheated and lied to win a Referendum. They cheated and lied to win an election. Then cheated and lied to win another Referendum. In order to try and throw the world economy over a cliff. So they can illegally embezzle public funds for them and their associates. Deliberately take down the economy. Do they can illegally tax evade and embezzle public money. The only reason. They join A political Party. They are the most despicable people.

      ‘Conceited ignoramuses’ is a compliment, To what many people call them. ‘Pycho bastards’. Their own description. How long will the latest one May going last? Not very long by all accounts because of her intransigence. She has achieved her ambition by blaming others for her errors and mistakes. They lost their jobs. Now she is going to get found out. The buck stops there. The only way is down.

      The EU deal May will get will end up being worse. Paying more for less influence and control of the economy. Scotland’s economy will be protected by the SNP Gov and the majority of the Scottish people and go from strength to strength without Westminster crass, illegal interference. Taking £Billions out of Scotland to illegally squander and waste. Scotland will be more free, equal, fairer prosoerous and happy. Without the Westminster criminals ruining the Scottish economy,

      Burnett the multimillionaire. Supporting 6 jobs Osbourne bid to ruin the Oil sector with illegally high taxes. The Tories allowing gross tax evasion for themselves and their associates. Losing 120,000 jobs and £Billions of revenues in Scotland. Claiming there was not need to cut illegalky on a major industry. It should stand alone? How ridiculous is that. Beyond belief.

      There is definitely a pick up. The helicopters are flying more again. Oil is not the be all and end all. It is just a bonus until the necessary alternative are in place and people can switch over. Electric cars are 4 times cheaper to run etc. Why don’t the Greens do something practical and useful for once. Sort out the Trams in Edinburgh. Running under capacity with not enough customers.

      Let OAP (bus) travel passes be used on the Trams. To increase off peak traveller numbers. Put up the fares that are too low to £10 return. Or £5 one way for a forty minute journey. To recoup the costs. More buses have to be provided. It would cut bus use, be more economical with less emissions. Edinburgh the wealthiest City in Scotland is one of the only ones with subsidised transport.

    402. Maolbeatha says:

      Trying to guess Nicolas next move. She spent a lot of time talking to various people in Europe. Maybe sounding them out? It appears that we have at least moral support.

      Westminster does not appear to be flavour of the month in Europe.

      The supreme court cannot over rule the will of the Scottish people as they are sovereign form what I read above.

      Now Nicola must have expect Westminster to block or delay a section 30 so has planned for this.

      Westminster blocks section 30

      Nicola has a consultative referendum backed by Europe with its result recognised by Europe.

      The referendum has to go to the SCOTTISH parliament to be recognised into law. As the Scottish people are sovereign and they voted the parties into Holyrood. The same as the Brexit referendum was handled in Westminster.

      The unionist parties could boycott the referendum if they choose and claim the result is not valid in an attempt to nullify it and make it appear irrelevant.

      Westminster refusing to allow the people to have their say under section 30 they are in effect denying a partner countries parliament the right to express democracy. Perhaps not looked upon too favourable by Europe. As I understand it until the UK is out of Europe we are still bound by its rules and regulations and obligations.

      I would love to hear Lallands peat worriers take on this but his blog has been quiet for a while and the sight of that smug looking git whos picture appears on the blog first makes me unwell.

      The result is voted on and passed.

    403. Orri says:

      Sit down and eat your Brexit, apparently.

      On a slightly more serious note. Whilst the UK hasn’t actually signed the Vienna Convention on Colonisation it’s still worth noting that Northern Ireland is at its core a colony. The Plantations came about by James the Sixth using Ulster as a dumping ground for extreme protestants. The reason being they were pains in the arse in Scotland and unlikely to go native in Ireland as had happened in numerous previous occasions with English colonies.

      This makes the default position as far as treaties between the UK, NI and any third party more relevant. It’s the same reasoning that was discussed during the 2014 referendum and never definitely ruled out. When a state splits then all treaties entered into by the former state are held to apply to all successor states subject to negotiation by all parties. The bonus, which NI would get and Scotland wouldn’t, is that colonies get an out of jail card. They pick and choose which treaties the are bound by and can walk away from the rest Scot free.

      The point is that theoretically a post Scottish independence NI would still be in a political union with both Westminster and Holyrood. It would, however, revert to being a possession of the resurgent Kingdom of England.

      Talk of somehow our independence meaning NI is automatically independent might be amusing but is potentially inviting interference from all sides from there if it’s given any credence.

    404. Nana says:

      This was sent to me a few moments ago, a day late.

      http://www.brodies.com/news/brodies-news/can-the-scottish-parliament-hold-an-independence-referendum-without-a-section-30-o

      Event took place yesterday, if you can bear to listen to Jackson Carlaw, the video is still available to watch. I’m afraid I don’t have a strong stomach.

      http://www.brodies.com/news/brodies-news/watch-live-event-on-brexit-and-scotlands-future

      Re Annie Wells list msp who does not respect the parliament that pays her wages. Petition here for anyone who wants to sign it.
      https://twitter.com/PWMartin_Leith/status/846867638672392192

    405. Training Day says:

      @ Mcewan hill

      Aye, I’m serious. This is the same Colin Mckay who scored the infamous debate between Sarwar and Nicola ‘a draw’, in the same way the army of Harold Godwinson got ‘a draw’ in 1066.

      Did you not notice how often Mckay repeated the phrases ‘this decision is not binding’ and ‘I don”t know where the Scottish Government goes from here’ in his non-interview narrative? Was that an accident?

      As for ripping Wells apart, a semi-competent whelk could do that with consummate ease.

    406. Dorothy Devine says:

      Training Day , I have to agree with you – but by way of mitigation ,they are all scared for their jobs.

      Ach! Forget mitigation , they are a bunch of lying , manipulative , spiteful, of no use to this country n’er do wells.And he is exactly the same as the rest – much like James Cooke and his “no smoke without fire’ ending of an interview with the FM over the liar Carmichael.

      Mildly interested where they have hidden Cooke – but only mildly.

      I look forward to their ignominious demise.

    407. Dr Jim says:

      Scottish government to resign?

    408. Smallaxe says:

      Ken500says:

      “Oil is not the be all and end all. It is just a bonus until the necessary alternatives are in place and people can switch over.”

      I agree with you Ken, in today’s world money is a necessity but it is not the be all and end all of our way of life. To be able to live without causing terror and destruction worldwide must be the dream of all decent thinking people. I know that that this is my dream and that I’m not alone in this way of thinking.

      Peace and Harmony to All

    409. caz-m says:

      Post again to remind people of what the Tory MSP Annie Wells thinks of Holyrood:

      Colin Mackay Interview with Annie Wells on a loop.

      Amazing scoop from @STVColin tonight. The Tories ” don’t accept the sovereignty of the Scottish Parliament ”

      https://twitter.com/SNPChris/status/846851416882888704

    410. Mike says:

      Seems the media is determined to block a second Indyref without the need of the UK Government to get involved at all.

      I think we will have to invent a whole new ideology in Scotland to cover the fact that we’re now Governed by Media consent.

      Mediocrity? Meddling? Menstruation? Manipulation?

    411. caz-m says:

      Hi Cactus

      I was your left hand man on Sunday at the BBC Scotland protest rally. I stopped the tent from blowing away while you done your “Thing”.

      Seriously, you done a grand job on Sunday and what an excellent singer you are matey.

    412. galamcennalath says:

      As Derek Bateman suggests, the next stop may be the Council of Europe.

      They are responsible for human rights, democracy, and the rule of law in Europe.

      One thing is certain, we need everything sorted out while we are still in the EU! After Brexit we would find ourself in an isolated rogue sub-dictatorship with recourse to no one who cared!

    413. One_Scot says:

      You are right Mike, Theresa May, David Mundell and Ruth Davidson clearly now plan to use the biased media to try and convince Scotland that it does not want another referendum, even if Holyrood does. North Korea does not really cover it.

      If we tolerate this, not only will our children be next, but Scotland will be F’cked.

    414. Breeks says:

      Trying to find Ross Greer and Kate Forres speeches from yesterday.

      Anybody help?

    415. Breeks says:

      Forbes! Damned spell check.

    416. Mike says:

      The UK Government wont block a section 30 request they will only seek to delay it past a point where Scotland ends up outside of the EU and has to reapply for membership.

      All it will take to make this whole exercise pointless is for the EU to state as one an intent to allow Scotland entry to the EU unimpeded immediate and unconditional.

      Cant see any reason why they wont do just that at any time during the next 2 years.

      NI will undoubtably be invited to remain in the EU for the sake of the peace process if nothing else. Wont take a big leap to include Scotland in the overall package.

      The EU has a massive card there to play against the UK Government. No reason why they wont.

    417. One_Scot says:

      Honestly, anyone who values or has any aspirations of Scotland becoming a normal country rather than a diminished isolated helpless region of Theresa May’s Brexit, you could do a lot worse than contribute to Scotland’s Referendum campaign fund, no matter how small.

      https://www.ref.scot

    418. Capella says:

      BBC planning to hold a series of “debates” in the run-up to the May LA elections. Nice of them to take an interest for the first time in my recollection. I wonder what the format of these “debates” will be.

    419. Vestas says:

      Council of Europe is an interesting idea because I’m pretty sure that the EU would find it legally impossible to agree a trade deal (or any other sort of treaty) with rUK while the UK is non-compliant.

      So (if I’m reading this right) it could be a standoff : no indyref2 before Brexit = no trade deal of any sort as the UK would be non-compliant with its current obligations under European human rights legislation.

      Interesting…

    420. Masslass says:

      Breeks I watched Kate Forbes on the Moridura site. click on videos.

    421. Mike says:

      @Dr Jim

      “Scottish government to resign?”

      Why what would that achieve?

    422. shiregirl says:

      oh my….anyone listening to Call Kaye?…

      🙁 🙁

    423. Mike says:

      Vestas

      Except I don’t believe this Tory Government actually gives a flying fuck about getting any trade deal.

      All this talk about getting the best deal for Britain is just worthless rhetoric all they care about is gaining the lost sovereignty and control of legislation back.

      Many within the Tory party have actually stated as much.

    424. Marcia says:

      shiregirl

      Now is not the time to listen to that biased programme.

    425. Liz Rannoch says:

      WoWser!! Just got through to shortbread! Sooo nervous forgot what I wanted to say – mostly went on about how Mayhem will use our resources as bargaining chips.

      Quickly dumped after I spoke. Some nutters on there this am?!! 🙂

      Shaking like a leaf now away fir ma porridge!

    426. Chick McGregor says:

      Theresa May has not thought this through. She should be insisting on an indyref2.

      How can Davis and May negotiate meaningfully with EU negotiators when Scotland’s future constitutional position is still unknown?

      For example, how could they possibly trade access to Scotland’s fishing grounds for London’s access to the single market?

      If you were an EU negotiator given an unknown Scotland indyref2 result, would you accept any guarantees regarding Scotland’s assets from May?

    427. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Nana reading Charles Livingstone ( Brodie’s LLb ) & Westminster ignoring a section 30 order . I wonder what Mr Livingstone (Brodie’s ) would make of the Repeal of the Act of Union 1707 by the Sovereign Scottish People & Scottish Gov ???.

      We’re no dun yit .

    428. shiregirl says:

      Marcia says:
      29 March, 2017 at 9:47 am

      Now is not the time to listen to that biased programme.

      I think you are right. Thank god for Valerie from Glasgow.

      I think my blood pressure went up a few mmHg listening to William from Stirling. Absolute zoomer. All that anger can’t be good for you.

      Turned off and put some Hawkwind on 😀

    429. manandboy says:

      ‘ONE COUNTRY’MEME WILL BE FLOGGED TO DEATH

      From the Guardian: “A UK government spokeswoman said: “We have been joined together as one country for more than 300 years. We’ve worked together, we’ve prospered together, we’ve fought wars together, and we have a bright future. At this crucial time we should be working together, not pulling apart.”

    430. shiregirl says:

      Liz

      I did catch it!!

      I had to turn off as I found myself getting very angry at the radio due to previous callers.

    431. Desimond says:

      @Wullie B

      That reminds me of a graphic novel I started writing once..began with a bus crashing into the “Welcome to Scotland” Sign on the M74 and her Majesty being awoken with a letter saying “Let us go..”

      The hands behind the plot were based\named in Scottish named places around the world..Houston, Perth etc

    432. manandboy says:

      From now on, listen carefully – every word from the Unionists will be spoken from the point of view of a slave owner who is trying desperately to persuade his slaves to stay – with the Abolition of Slavery approaching.

    433. Vestas says:

      @Mike says 9:43 am :

      “Vestas

      Except I don’t believe this Tory Government actually gives a flying fuck about getting any trade deal.”

      They will once its made crystal clear to them that without a deal then on the 30/3/19 there won’t be ANY goods moving from the UK to the EU without inspection and certification.

      I reckon that by 1/4/19 (2 days later) the queue of lorries from Dover will have reached the M25 and jammed that solid. By the end of April 2017 there will be plenty of empty spaces on supermarket shelves, and by the end of 2019 the UK will be bankrupt. By that I mean the IMF will be in.

      The more inbred of the tories may not have the brains of a lobotomised shrew, but there’s enough of the rest to boot Theresa & her bunch of loonies out of office if it really is “no deal”.

      The whole “no deal is better than a bad deal” comes from the ex-sugar salesman David Davis – straight out of his 1988 book on making deals. He’s clueless – and quite probably suffering the early stage of dementia given his age.

    434. Nana says:

      @ronnie anderson says “We’re no dun yit”

      Too right Ronnie, we are not done yet

      Hope you had a lots of cake, you deserve it!

      @Liz Rannoch, well done you. I don’t listen to these programmes, I wouldn’t have any crockery left if I did.

    435. call me dave says:

      Aye its the SNP that’s using the EU nationals living in Scotland as bargaining chips says the man who has a German wife. Funny what looking through the wrong end of the telescope does to your eyesight. 🙂

      I heard it on shortbread … must be true!

    436. DerekM says:

      @ Mike

      It would force another Scottish election which the SNP could then add to their manifesto a vote for them as government means a vote for independence.

      It is one of those other ways to indy which will be accepted by other nations,many nations in the EU gained independence through this method and is the most used way to gain independence.

      Though i have a feeling we will not need that and westminster may find the demand of self determination for Scotland and N Ireland high up on the EU`s list of demands and may even find the EU throw the UN rule book at them.

    437. Mike says:

      @Chick

      That’s just further proof and another indication that they don’t give a shit about getting any kind of a deal.
      They can get everything they want by default.
      Full Sovereignty and absolute control over every aspect of the UK.
      That’s it. That’s their ONLY goal. Anything else is just window dressing.

      This isn’t a politically moderate Government this is an EXTREMIST FAR FAR right wing cult posing as a political party in Government.
      They will pay lip service to the negotiating process but will walk away with nothing with a shrug and a quick arse scratch and start to impose absolute rule over the UK starting with the dismantling of Devolution and further erosion of workers rights.

      Who is there to oppose them? Labour? the Lib Dems?

      Its Christmas for fascism.

    438. Capella says:

      @ Nana – that is hilarious! Had to listen twice
      This actually happened on the bbc but #jackiebird never got a word in #ménage #caravan:

      https://twitter.com/JaneyGodley/status/846803803416485888

    439. Mike says:

      @DerekM

      Even winning an outright election which is extremely difficult for them to do BTW 2011 was a freak result wont give the Scottish Government a bigger mandate than they have now.
      The Scottish Parliament has voted. That’s it that’s the mandate and in spite of all the Tory waffle on the subject they are forced to accept it. Which is why they wont actually officially block a section 30 request they will just seek to delay it.
      Another election win wont prevent them delaying the process and it may actually make the people of Scotland more weary about getting involved in the political process.

      Sometimes you can have far too many political choices to make in too short a period of time. We still have the local elections to get through yet.

    440. One_Scot says:

      ‘That’s just further proof and another indication that they don’t give a shit about getting any kind of a deal.’

      I believe you are correct, all the evidence points to Theresa May and Tories aiming for No Deal.

      If Scotland cannot save herself before the Brexit exit, I’m not sure she will ever be in a position to save herself later.

    441. Dr Jim says:

      @Mike

      If the SG resigned they could put aside worrying about trying to fix a country that’s too dim to be fixed and get themselves a sleep
      Ten minutes of Not call Kaye’s more than my soul can take when you have folk coming on complaining that politicians and the media talk about politics and nobody down the pub does that, or my four pals say Naw! so that’s the will of the people

      It all leads me to the conclusion that I’m not normal thinking about the future because apparently that’s not what people want (according to Not call Kaye)
      The normal way to behave seemingly is to wait for the future to bite you in the bum and then complain the politicians didnae tell you about it, so you get annoyed and vote for somebody else

      I wouldn’t have the Scottish governments job for all the tea in China, 1 I wouldn’t have the patience, 2 I’m not smart enough, and 3 I’d have a heart attack due to losing my temper on a daily basis with folk who immediately forgot how to assimilate information as soon as they left school because they thought having a brain wasn’t needed anymore as they know the way to the pub and that’s what really counts after all, getting on with your life

      Aaarrrgh! I resign myself to the acceptance of Numptyism in all its forms and embrace the normality of complainerism over beer prices and adopt the phrase

      They didnae tell us that but!

    442. Smallaxe says:

      shiregirl:

      Leave the anger to those who thrive on it, you do not need anger, although it is a normal human emotion it harms your Spirit.Show the world that we can thrive with positive and peaceful emotions, these are and should be a “normal” way of life for us all to live by, while we pursue our goal.

      Peace Always

    443. Mike says:

      @Vestas

      “They will once its made crystal clear to them that without a deal then on the 30/3/19 there won’t be ANY goods moving from the UK to the EU without inspection and certification.”

      You’re implying reason exists within a regime
      which would take us to war on a whim.
      Which is under investigation for election fraud.
      Which is covering up child sex crimes.
      Which is up to its Oxters in illegal arms deals.
      Which imposes poverty as an ideological choice.
      Which happily imposes migration legislation which divides families.
      Which without conscience refuses sanctuary for child refugees.

      I don’t have your faith in this Government being rational on any issue.

    444. Brian Powell says:

      I suspect most of the callers on CallKak are Tories.

    445. Iain says:

      Todays the day the british ambassador hands the Eu a suicide note.

    446. Nana says:

      @Capella

      I thought it was hilarious. Thank goodness we Scots can still laugh even if sometimes we feel like crying.

      I can’t help but wonder if the scotgov have a plan regarding the media bias, this is what really worries me. Do we sit back and let the lies continue, do we crowdfund more billboards with short sharp facts.

      Having spoken with a few folks recently the tory election fraud is something they were not aware of, will it be up to us again to highlight the stuff the media won’t touch.

    447. Mike says:

      @Dr Jim

      Take heart Jim. Callkay most likely go out of their way to ensure only the gormless get a voice because its only the gormless who are capable of articulating the point of view the BBC supports. The rest will be censored.

    448. heedtracker says:

      Hope this is viewable, I cant stop laughing at it.

      https://twitter.com/janeygodley/status/846803803416485888

    449. Vestas says:

      @Mike 10:29 am :

      “I don’t have your faith in this Government being rational on any issue.”

      Where did I mention the govt? The tory backbenchers will stop a “No deal” because most of them have interests in companies/family businesses which ARE going to take the hit.

      No way are the tory backbenchers going to take that from the Eton/Oxbridge frontbenchers, most of whom are multi-multi millionaires via family and/or nepotism.

      If it really does come to “No Deal” then Theresa is out on her arse along with all her cabinet. More importantly (for these people) their names will be manure – just like Cameron/Osbourne are.

      No Deal will scare the hell out of the average Tory backbencher, regardless of what they say now.

      Its a “game over boys” weapon…

    450. robin says:

      The people are sovereign
      The parliament has voted
      Brexit has been triggered
      frankly it doesn’t matter if they cheer our representatives in the EU parliament
      What we need is EU official recognition of our sovereignty and that we cannot be held hostage.
      What the English parliament is saying is that even if 99.9% of scots vote in any election for independence that England will ignore it.
      This is slavery/hostage taking
      The EU must speak in our defence against being asset stripped

    451. Jim Morris says:

      Time for a written constitution to be drafted ready to be implemented on Day 1 of an Independent Scotland.

    452. Mike says:

      Where did I mention the govt? The tory backbenchers will stop a “No deal” because most of them have interests in companies/family businesses which ARE going to take the hit.

      So where were these back benchers when there was a vote in Parliament that would have modified Brexit to a point where a no deal option was off the table?

    453. John H. says:

      James O’Brien show this morning. The Australian business secretary has stated that she thinks that Brexit is a wonderful idea, because at the moment Australia deals with Europe through Britain, and after Brexit can deal with Europe directly.

    454. Robert Graham says:

      Oh f/k SKY now have a Brexit countdown clock Wee clocks are nice arent they , I bet they dont add the National Debt clock increasing as the brexit clock runs down , and Carmichael is bumping his gums on SKY news with great authority proclaiming his love for his country and having a dig at that nasty SNP lot and not a blush in sight great start to the morning eh .

    455. Muscleguy says:

      @BobMack

      “We must be the only nation in the world who have good fishing grounds, agriculture and livestock in abundance added to tourist friendly beautiful landscape and scenery and yet somehow we are portrayed as being the beggars of these islands.”

      Agreed, New Zealand is like that too except it has a slightly bigger landmass than the entire British Isles and an enormous marine EEZ due to a collection of distant offshore islands (Kermadecs, Chathams, Sub Antarctics).

      There is some gas in the Taranaki Bight and onshore there but little oil (too actively volcanic, tends to get burnt in situ. It would kill for all that AND Scotland’s oil wealth.

      NZ is very much a viable economy and political polity despite loony Australian politicians punting unification whenever they have a budget blowout. Australia is our England, joking about us little Kiwis while they try to become Ocker Americans.

      NZ’s essentially non-aligned status post the Nuclear Free declaration and the Rainbow Warrior Affair is a potential pointer to how iScotland could be. NZ was recently elected to the UN Security Council, again by other countries. We helped put together that Israel resolution Obama declined to veto. NZ is proud of being a founder member of the UN and takes its place seriously. Our former PM Helen Clark head of the UN Development Program was a serious contender for the Secretary Generalship.

      The Irish know a bit about gaining world status being good guys with their recent Presidents. I like to think iScotland can be like the Irish too.

      Let us make friends, not enemies. I’m proud of my black NZ passport while I’m ashamed of my UK one and can’t wait for my Scottish one so I can let the UK one lapse. I can be black and blue 😉

    456. Ruby says:

      1.
      http://j.tinyurl.com/klv3bur

      2.
      http://j.tinyurl.com/n4q2cnl

      3.
      http://tinyurl.com/grwrtez

      Link to debate on Holyrood TV.

      No 3 is yesterday’s debate.

    457. Liz Rannoch says:

      @ Nana 7.44

      http://indyref2.scot/anger-as-ruth-davidson-mocks-rival-msps-scottish-accent

      Yes totally disgusting – my email to Ken McIntosh:

      I wish to complain about the aggressive, arrogant and rude behaviour of Ruth Davidson towards Nicola Sturgeon and Joan McAlpine in yesterdays debate.
      I am also angry that you appear to have let her away with it.

      In a debate in which a lot of MSPs called for decency and respect, Ms Davidson’s attitude beggars belief. One has to wonder what would have happened if it had been the other way around?

    458. Vestas says:

      @Muscleguy 10:55am :

      I assume the reason you have dual-nat is because the other country is the UK?

      I only ask as a mate of mine lives in NZ, moved there when he was 5 (35 years ago) can’t have dual Netherlands/NZ nationality. He’s got permanent residence so that’s not an issue but he can’t take NZ citizenship without giving up his Netherlands citizenship (this is from NZ Govt). That would obviously mess up his existing EU rights which isn’t an option.

      Just curious.

    459. misteralz says:

      Been trying to word this properly all morning:

      So, today is a historic day. The proper beginning of the end of the English Empire. I will not mourn it. There is a lot of talk on friendface today about how terrible and short sighted the whole thing is. Which it is. But it’s also the wake up call that England desperately needs. Today England’s last three colonies are that bit closer to being real and proper countries again (or, in one case, being reunited with the country they were stolen from). England is going to get a severe kicking, the likes of which it has never seen but wholeheartedly deserves. It’s going to have to wind its neck in, learn humility and co-operation, and work out how to survive without pillaging resources from elsewhere…

      Still needs work, I think.

    460. Smallaxe says:

      @Mike 10:29 am:

      “I don’t have your faith in this Government being rational on any issue.”

      None of us has faith in them, Mike, that’s why we must be free of them, as I’m sure you know.

      Peace Always

    461. Breeks says:

      Folks I don’t think the EU or UN will be able to intervene on the legitimacy of Scotland’s right to hold a referendum. If it is through Scottish sovereignty that we claim the right to hold a referendum, then the first step in that process is international recognition of a sovereign Scottish parliament having the right to act independently. The critical threshold will already be crossed.

      The ScotRef will happen, but I’d lay odds on it not being a binary choice, but instead a ratification plebiscite after the event for the direction an Independent Scotland will move.

    462. Dr Jim says:

      @Mike

      Yep, we know what the media do it’s par for the course but as long as it’s them who run politics and set the agenda without actually standing for parliament because to do that would restrict the propaganda output and the purpose of it which is to dumb down the electorate just as they’ve done in America and allow themselves the luxury of the perpetuation of their own job creation programme

      The more discordancy the media can sew the more necessary they make themselves to report and opine on the mess that they’ve created and still most of the people most of the time don’t see it and even if you point it out with evidence don’t believe it

      The shake up the world needs isn’t really in politics it’s the news media, remove them and much of the problem goes with them
      It’s no wonder some countries go to extremes and just entirely replace the news media with state propagandised mouthpieces (not advocating that) but a complete regulated overhall and properly answerable to law media with total disclosure of assertion supported by evidence or criminal charges laid against the offenders, and I mean statutory jail time for lying and misleading the public for owners editors and “journalists” and that includes the Telly lot

      News should be reported not reprinted out of all recognition to avoid facts

      The removal of “journalists” now I’d do that job smilingly,
      with heavy objects if required, or even if not required

      Satisfying!

    463. Mike says:

      Smallaxe

      In order for the UK Government to get any kind of concessions with trade they will HAVE to concede on free movement. There is no one without the other.
      That’s why there wont be any trade deals.

      That’s the hard core concession neither side can afford to give on.

    464. Dan Huil says:

      Apologies if this has been posted already:

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15187742.David_Davis_admits_Northern_Ireland_has_a_Brexit_get_out/?action=success#comment_18255548

      The so-called precious united kingdom continues to disintegrate.

    465. Capella says:

      @ Nana – I think comedy, specially satire, is great weapon. A short rant along the lines of Chunkymark, or the two Johns, or even that Jane Godley tweet, would be great. Tommy Sheppard would know who’s around? Or will National Collective revive soon?

      Debunking the lies would be a full time job.

    466. Nana says:

      @Capella

      A full time job indeed and then some.

      Off to do some work but before I go

      https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/847020293688315904

      https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/847023785995911169

    467. Mike says:

      Wouldn’t want to be a UK expat in the EU right now having to rely on this regime to protect my best interests.

      Tell ye that fur fuck all.

    468. DerekM says:

      @ Mike

      lol just sit back and watch Mike,the pre show is finished here comes the main event 😉

      And they would not need a majority in parliament just elected to govern that is all,it is how you word the manifesto that matters,if they win that then they call a national assembly of all MP`s,MSP`s and MEP`s and declare Scotland independent.

      Though that is not what the SNP want,they want to do it through referendum which at first i disagreed with but they sure don`t half freak the mad yoons out so now i am all for them.

      To many elections Mike well you and i differ on that opinion i think we do not get enough elections or that the ones we do get are even fair or that we should leave things like Nuke power in the hands of politicians to decide.

      But i get the concern about apathy the UK system is big on breeding apathy that is why it does not like referendum.

    469. Smallaxe says:

      Mike:

      What concessions W/Minster does or does not get does not concern me as long as we are no longer involved with them, although I do have great sympathy for those who will suffer under their rule through no fault of their own. Many people in England and Wales were lied to and fell for the lies.

      Luckily, we are aware now of the lies, our job is to make more of our population aware also.

      Peace Always, my Friend

    470. Mike says:

      Smallaxe

      It should though because the Indyref result will depend on how good or bad the deal looks like being.

    471. Mike says:

      Did Andrew Neil just ask what kind of a union is it that would give a member a hard time for deciding to leave?

      @Selfawareness

    472. Dorothy Devine says:

      Nana loved that! Still chortling!

    473. heedtracker says:

      Ligger Neil now calling EU “its”, its got real problem’s, why would you pick a fight with Britain, on his private vote tory BBC Politics show.

      Really sad day today, we’re completely shackled to tory psychopaths now.

    474. Smallaxe says:

      Mike:

      You are correct, in your own way, I, though, think of an independent Scotland that can make it’s own deals once independence is gained.

      We can hopefully then debate on the EU and other matters, I would hope also to have a competent opposition in Parliament who have only the best interest of Scotland and Her people at heart instead of parties that are interested only in the union and self-aggrandisement.

      Peace Always my Friend
      My apologies for the delay in answering.

    475. Mike says:

      We can now sit back and wait for the first of many sledge hammer blows the EU will deliver onto the UK Government in the shape of concessions to Scotland and NI in order to encourage a split in the UK.

      Its clearly in their own best interests to do so.

    476. Nana says:

      Just received this

      Dear Nana,
      Now that Article 50 has been triggered, we face a monumental battle for our rights.

      Everything we care about will be affected by Brexit. Over the next year, the government will lay out plans for new laws on trade, migration, the environment and food policy. Each bill carries huge threats to the creation of a fairer world.
      The Great Repeal Bill

      Tomorrow, Theresa May will announce plans for the first of these far-reaching bills, the Great Repeal Bill, which will affect how our country works for decades to come.

      The task of the Great Repeal Bill is huge – to transfer thousands of European laws into British law. These laws include equal pay legislation, energy efficiency laws and regulations controlling tobacco advertising.

      In order to achieve such a huge task, the Great Repeal Bill threatens to hand massive power from parliament to the government. Under so-called Henry VIII powers, ministers get extraordinary authority to make law outside of parliament.
      We don’t want the government to have the powers of a Tudor king when deciding on our rights and protections.
      This week we are calling on parliament to stand up for our rights. We are demanding that parliament refuses to give the government these new powers over human rights, equalities, and environmental laws and standards.

      What you can do
      Something important you can do today to help is to make other people aware of this threat.
      If you are on Facebook or Twitter, please share this graphic about the Great Repeal Bill, which links to our full Q&A about the Bill. If you’re not on social media, please forward this email to your contacts.

      Here is the attached graphic. Please get sharing folks

      http://www.globaljustice.org.uk/blog/2017/mar/29/whats-great-repeal-bill-and-why-should-we-be-worried-about-it

    477. Breeks says:

      Leaked document taken from the Guardian…

      The chamber’s general principles for the coming talks include that:

      a future relationship agreement between the European union and the UK “can only be concluded once the United Kingdom has withdrawn from the EU”.

      there may be a transitional deal for after 2019 to ensure that custom controls and barriers on trade are not enforced on day one of Brexit, but that these arrangements should not exceed three years and will be “limited in scope as they can never be a substitute for union membership”.

      the European court of justice will be responsible for settling any legal challenges during the transition period.

      the UK will be able to revoke its notification of article 50 but this must be “subject to conditions set by all EU27 so they cannot be used as a procedural device or abused in an attempt to improve the actual terms of the United Kingdom’s membership”.

      should Britain seek to negotiate any free trade deals with other countries while it is still an EU member state, there will be no future discussion of a deal with the union.

      there will be no special deal for the City of London “providing UK-based undertakings preferential access to the single market and, or the customs union”.

      the cut-off date after which EU nationals coming to the UK lose the automatic right to residency in the UK must not be before 29 March 2019, when the country leaves the EU, or the British government will be breaking EU law.

      Britain should pay all its liabilities “arising from outstanding commitments as well as make provision for off-balance sheet items, contingent liabilities and other financial costs that arise directly as a result of its withdrawal”.

      the outcome of the negotiations on the future EU-UK relationship “cannot involve any trade-off between internal and external security including defence cooperation, on the one hand, and the future economic relationship, on the other hand”.

    478. Breeks says:

      Sorry, that previous post had bullets that didn’t translate… hope it’s still clear.

    479. Wullie B says:

      @Desimond

      That was a shameless plug by a noob author,, will be part of a trilogy, got plans for the next series already hoping to finish HH this summer, and start on the new one which starts off in 1746 and finishes just after the American wars of independence, the same Scottish family fighting the Brit overlords

    480. HandandShrimp says:

      Did Andrew Neil just ask what kind of a union is it that would give a member a hard time for deciding to leave?

      I do hope so 🙂

    481. Smallaxe says:

      Breeks:

      Very clear, thank you.

      Peace Always

    482. Mike says:

      First sledge hammer hits home over NI as the EU DEMAND that the border stays open. NO COMPROMISE on that issue.

    483. bugsbunny says:

      WullieB@11.23pm last night,

      Have you ever read Scotch on the Rocks by a certain Douglas Hurd?

    484. Fred says:

      Anent Ruth Davidson’s personal remarks, it was she who called a Labour MP a “shovel-faced lesbian!”. You might think that a hoyden with a fat arse would check the mirror before opening her mouth!

    485. Smallaxe says:

      heedtracker says:

      “Really sad day today, we’re completely shackled to tory psychopaths now.”

      Cheer up, my Friend, we have Wings to fly over the Cuckoo’s nest.
      🙂
      Peace Always

    486. Smallaxe says:

      Fred:
      🙂

      Peace Always

    487. TheWasp says:

      THE BRIDGE IS LATE, shout disreporting, why, when and a good day to bury bad news says the queens eleven



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top