The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


The same old songs again

Posted on March 27, 2017 by

As the Prime Minister prepares to meet the First Minister and doggedly give her “now is not the time” mantra another few dozen run-throughs for the cameras, we thought that you might enjoy a little trip down Memory Lane.

Ah, the old days.

Get on with the day job, now is not the time, you don’t have a majority, you don’t have a mandate, nobody wants it, take it off the table. All the crowd-pleasing greatest hits.

Still, SOME things DO change, we suppose.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

331 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
bobajock

I love you Rev.

I was sure this one had been said before.

Now is the time.

Marcia

Political history keeps repeating itself.

It would be good to see the FM close the door on the PM when she arrives for her talk/lecture at Bute House saying, ‘Now is not the time’.

robertknight

General Mayhem been strutting the corridors of Downing Street with Private Mundell beside her yelling “Don’t panic, don’t panic”?

I guess they must recon if they play the same game they can expect the same result. I dearly hope so, because they’re going to get an awfy big fright if they do! ?

Neil Ralley

Or, to put it another way, there is no better time for the Kingdom to be UNTIED.

Oscar Taime

Can’t help thinking the MSM could have reported Nicola’s dates after the brexit negotiations and May’s “now is not the time” + “we need to complete the negotiations” as a truly remarkable level of agreement.

X_Sticks

If not now then never.

I don’t think there’s any choice. We simply must win our self-determination this time or we will lose the chance for decades.

Permanent tory rule from London is what we face if we don’t succeed.

Arbroath1320

As Mayhem will repeat ad nauseam the latest mantra of the tory party … now is not the time … the question should be asked will Nicola Sturgeon go with the line “now is not the time to offering Scotland TEMPORARY powers?”

I think everyone and their dog knows full well why Mayhem is going to offer “temporary” powers to Scotland. She is desperate to keep hold of our waters and fishermen so that she can sell them all down the Swanee when she does a deal with the E.U. over Brexit.

Sadly for Mayhem the E.U. has the measure of her.

Scotland could be allowed to remain in Europe pending a vote on independence, a report to MEPs claims.

link to archive.is

TheItalianJob

Great to highlight the same old same old rhetoric from the same old faces from the Unionist sides.

Best ignored as I will be doing so today vis-a-vis the TV news and MSM until tomorrow when we await the real “breaking news” from Holyrood and of course WOS.

Thanks for this timely reminder.

Hoss Mackintosh

I think it is the right time – not right now but when folk see the full magnitude of the Brexit disaster laid out before them next year.

I have been giving a bit of thought to the response of the EU and whether they could propose to keep Scotland and NI in the EU until we have a vote on it. I see there is a report doing the rounds on this through the MEPs to the EU parliament.

If they do that they effectively they have spiked May delaying tactics as in many ways the longer the Brexit disaster runs, the worse it will get and the Indy vote will keep on increasing.

Ironically, the first power that Theresa May is giving up when she hits that A50 trigger is the right to block NI and Scotland voting to stay in the EU. From then on the UK will have no say when and if we and NI join the EU – it will be up to the people of NI and Scotland and the EU27 only.

Exciting week ahead – Indy vote in Holyrood, A50 letter in Brussels and the United EU27 response at the end of the week.
🙂
Interesting times…

we want democracy

I like the caption under Tavish Scott’s photie.

“Read Brian Taylor’s Blog”.

That’s at least something that has changed. No one but no one reads that now.

Macart

Proof, if any were ever required, that it’s NEVER going to be a good time for unionist politicians.

gus1940

I have conjured up in my mind a scenario for today’s meeting at Bute House which although wonderful is unlikely to happen.

As the talks proceed TM starts to lay down the law and talk down to Nicola as if she is some little ignorant native colonial subject.

Nicola shoves back her chair, stands up and tells TM to Get Out, marches her down the stairs, out the door then shoves her down the steps on to the pavement with a fuck off gesture with a large crowd cheering ecstatically.

Nana

Get you hankies out or if you prefer a sick bucket!

Addressing DFID staff in East Kilbride, Prime Minister Theresa May will say:

link to gov.uk

we want scotland

gus1940@11.57

Metaphorically at least that’s pretty much what will happen!

Anonymous

Presenting the Nawbags Greatest Hits Collection!

Classics such as…

Now is Not the Time
No Means No
The Vow (Part 2)
Neverendum
No Mandate, No Majority
Get on with the Day Job
Too Little, too Weak
United as One (Country Version)
You’ve Had Your Chance
Strong Bonds (May’s Love Theme)
I’m just a Nationalist Unionist
Tories in Red Coats (Extended Version)

And many many more!

Order your copy now for just £17.07!

Bob Mack

“Memories are made of this”——- lies, deceit, insincerity, dubiety, falsehoods.

We remember the vow and the Smith Commission only too well.

England is going to a lot of trouble to keep us in the UK, and you can bet your bottom dollar it is not out of love and concern for our welfare. If nothing else it should prove to everyone that they need us desperately.

Someone famous once said “Now’s the time ,and Now’s the hour”. Prophetic.

Dave McEwan Hill

As an unfortunate newspaper addict(generally to see what our opponents are saying about us)I buy (or freely read in supermarkets)tabloids from time to time and usually go to the letters page.

This is informative or excruciating or both but we shouldn’t just operate in our own bubble. What is most interesting is the number of unionist bigyins supplying banal letters to these on the basis they are talking to eejits. There are very often downright lies in them

I believe newspapers operate their letters pages on the assumption that the readers will believe the contents of the letters are the responsibility of the writers of them.

This is not the case. The probity of the contents of the letters page is the responsibility of the newspaper and any lie should be objected to furiously and a correction demanded. If this is not forthcoming a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission is entirely appropriate.

Les Wilson

Groundhog day again, It is good to look back and see these, just for the reminder that nothing changes in the Yoonionist view of Scotland. We are their possession and in their view that cannot change. Well they can GTF.

We will do what we want to do,end of.

Dave McEwan Hill

In my above offering I should have said “legal responsibility” as is actually the case

Arbroath1320

Apparently Mayhem arrived at Govan Police station about an hour ago. Here’s hoping she was charged with impersonating an intelligent respectful caring human being.

Dr Jim

But but, we promise it’ll be different this time, we love you but if you don’t love us back we’ll destroy you

I just can’t make up my mind, Hee Hee!

Calum McKay

Now is not time when we have the biggest oil find possibly ever in the North Sea?

Surely it’s better to wait when Westminster have secured and spent the oil windfall on trident and south east England?

Alternatively, we could have a vote in 18 to 24 months’ time and when independent spend the oil money across Scotland on public services such as the NHS, invest in education, reduce inequality and over in our infrastructure?

Mik Johnstone

aye, Theresa May, Coming to Scotland? is that right, more jam tomorrow , arriving the day after the papers reported that Scotland and Northern Ireland can stay In the EU until they get independence, but it’s purely coincidental that she’s coming here to offer shiny Baubles, and what about Northern Ireland ? the D.U.P. failed to turn up to talks with Sinn Féin yesterday and now the Irish Assembly is at risk, i’d have thought it was more important to get over there to sort out Northern Ireland … obviously not ….

joannie

@Mik Johnstone – its pure coincidence of course that NI has absolutely no oil.

HandandShrimp

I love the notion that the Liberals aren’t against a referendum in principle.

Lying gits! The Liberals would sooner stick pins in their children’s’ eyes than agree another referendum.

Such dishonesty is outrageous but apparently normal.

Breeks

Just put this in the wrong thread like a noob….lol

Breeks says:
27 March, 2017 at 12:21 pm
May is stuck between a rock and a hard place. She cannot negotiate Brexit without knowing what the “Bre” in Brexit actually stands for; the UK as a single entity, or two component countries of the UK in open dispute. Negotiations can’t progress beyond introductory preambles without knowing the competency of the parties, and May lacks competence to speak for the whole UK.

Perhaps, indeed it must be probable, that it has now occurred to May how cack-handed and arrogant her dealings with Scotland have been up to now, and the same is probably true for Europe. She now has the problem of silencing Scottish dissent, or capitulating to acknowledge Scotland has the right to speak for itself in negotiations between the EU, and the Bipartite Union of two sovereign countries which is the UK.

She must surely know by now that the will of Westminster to exit Europe is emphatically trumped in Scotland by the expressed will to stay in Europe delivered by the voice of the sovereign people of Scotland.

The massive irony is, that after all the Unionist shite and lies of the YES referendum in 2014, the UK Prime Minister is coming to Scotland and has to lay before us, the sovereign people of Scotland, the positive, persuasive, progressive arguments for Scotland remaining in the UK. And that is something no Unionist has been able to articulate at any stage in the white hot constitutional debate about Scotland’s future up to this point.

The irony on top of that massive irony, is that Theresa May still isn’t here to talk about Scotland, she is motivated to come here to talk about Westminster’s authority regarding Europe. Get out of the way Scotland! Nice eh? Feel the respect.

Unless Theresa May is willing to recognise the distinction between Scottish Sovereignty and Westminster Sovereignty, I rather suspect Ms May might save herself the price of her ticket.

And if, or when, the UK Prime Minister has to recognise Scotland’s sovereign capacity to make its own separate peace with Europe, that puts Theresa May and Nicola Sturgeon in joint negotiations with Europe as “equal” heads of State, and then a serious question arises about whether the Act of Union still formally exists at all.

This is a time of meaty constitutional politics in the UK, and so far it augers well for Scotland.

Nana

For goodness sake “Now is not the time”

link to twitter.com

Peter McCulloch

Lets not forget that it’s not just the Tories who will do whatever they can to prevent another referendum taking place.

They are able to rely on partners Labour to help them.

I have a local government Labour election leaflet, on the back of it down at the right hand side.

It has a small section headed we will fight to protect the union

‘The SNP are dragging us into another referendum when the constitution question has already been settled’.

The two Labour candidates are committed to making sure Scotland remains part of the UK.

Proud Cybernat

On the very odd occasion, there is (t)Ruth…

link to imgur.com

Dan Huil

@Nana 12:01pm

It was a sick bucket for me. Everything but the war/blitz spirit. She’ll probably mention those when/after she meets Nicola Sturgeon.

Time is against the so-called united kingdom. The future is an independent Scotland. May is clueless. Scotland’s friends are in Europe. Scotland has no friends in britnat Westminster. Vote Yes.

[…] Wings Over Scotland The same old songs again As the Prime Minister prepares to meet the First Minister and doggedly give her […]

skintybroko

In another blow to those wishing for an independent Scotland, it has been announced that there has been a massive oil discovery west of shetland. Scotland will need the deep pockets of Westminster to fill with all the taxes that will be generated as they are too wee and too stupid to manage on their own and Westminster can ensure they are too poor.

When are the meedja going to wake up and smell the coffee FFS.

Macart

@Nana

Total respect agenda going well then. 🙂

carjamtic

The Price of Inequality

You know that Formal contract of Inequality that allows us to rip the pish out of you forever,that allows any big decisions involving you,to be made by us,do you remember it from about 300 years ago,remember ?.

And you know that we’ve given it some minor tweaks over the years but is still fundamentally the same,well I’ve got some good news,I’ve had a quick chat with the elites and they’ve instructed me to make you an offer.

The contract is still fundimundilly the same,but how does £300 per day for life sound Lady Nicola,I know I know,it gives you a conflict of interest,but that doesn’t bother Lady Ruth,Lady Kez or Sir William what do you say ?.

The reply that launched two million lifeboats.

galamcennalath

Today is Déjà Vow day. Again!

mumsyhugs

This wummin obviously thinks oor heids button up the back!

Robert Peffers

@Nana says: 27 March, 2017 at 12:01 pm:

“Theresa May will say:”

link to gov.uk

Great links Nana, and wonderful research by yourself.

I had a wry smile upon reading the Ms May paper as the daft bat says she wants to create a plan for, “Britain”.

A task she just May, find a little bit hard to achieve as the parliament she claims she leads is the de facto Parliament of the country of England that officially is titled, “Her Majesty’s Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”.

Which rather effectively gives the lie to Ms May’s oft repeated claim it is her, (Ms May’s), government.

It also gives the lie to the bit that Ms May claims she is attempting to make plans for Britain.

One wonders if anyone has told the people of the three, non-Westminster, Crown Protectorates and the non-UK Republic of Ireland that Ms May has great plans for their futures? – Whether, it seems, they agree with her plans or not?

Capella

Govan Police station? That’s Nicola’s constituency. Is Nicola there? why is May visiting Police Scotland anyway. surely that’s Nicola’s responsibility.

They should demand she cancels the VAT payments and refunds the total VAT paid so far.

Jack Murphy

OT. TODAY:
Largest undeveloped oil find.
“An oil exploration firm has made what it has described as the “largest undeveloped discovery” of oil in UK waters.
Hurricane Energy said one billion barrels of oil could be contained within the Greater Lancaster Area, 60 miles (97km) west of Shetland.

The company hopes to begin production in 2019.
Dr Robert Trice, Hurricane’s chief executive officer, described the find as “exciting times”……….”

BBC:
link to archive.is

Arbroath1320

Noticeably everyone’s favourite TV channel is doing everything possible to avoid covering mayhem with Mayhem today. In fact they are doing everything possible to ensure that we all know that there is a wee fight thingy going on in Mosul. Apparently nothing is happening in the U.K. today … I guess that makes a wee change then. 😀

K1

Scotland responds tae May’s intervening in Scotland’s decision to have Scotref:

link to youtube.com

Arbroath1320

So just so we are all perfectly clear about how caring this numpty o numpties is with regards to being caring blah de blah de blah.

link to twitter.com

Still Positive

Capella @ 1.08

I wondered that too then remembered that Govan Police Station is where they hold terrorists. So perhaps something to do with that but she shouldn’t be having ‘talks’ with them as they are devolved. That’ll be her attempting to put Nicola in her place.

Arbroath1320

With all her tootling around U.K. it appears there are some folks Mayhem has forgotten to talk to. 😀

This was in the Holyrood magazine last year.

link to holyrood.com

Bob Mack

Does anyone have a list of all operative oil and gas fields around Scotland?

I know that over the last two years there have been major discoveries I. E. Lancaster and now Hurricane which are both estimated to be huge.

How can we cope ?

Red Squirrel

When we have to rely on the Union we’re leaving for information about the Union we’re in, now is definitely the time for Scotref.

cearc

I hope Govan Police remember to bill her for use of the facilities and manpower (plus VAT of course).

starlaw

OT but interesting.

If you receive election material from Yoon parties, please read the small print and see where it was printed.
SLAB are very good at protecting Jobs in England.

Robert J. Sutherland

Oh, Stu, thanks for the wunnerful memories! I had quite forgotten. Oh, how times and faces have changed in such a short time.

All, that is, except the same old pathetic anti-democratic bleats of the Unionists.

Peter McCulloch

The Labour leaflet I have got hold of is printed by a printing company in Buckhaven.

BrynnaBob

‘Now is not the time’

They scream the mantra, beat the drum,
Scotland can’t have a ‘referendumb’.
The people they don’t need a say
Just leave it all to Theresa May.

Kezia, Ruthie and Willie to,
They don’t think it’s up to you.
Let them know with a strong voice,
It’s not for you, it’s Scotland’s choice.

Arbroath1320

So just to make sure we are all singing from the same song sheet. Remember, whenever you are in a room and Her Greatness herself enters the room you are all required to applaud, no seriously you will all applaud!

Apparently the employees at DFID were instructed to applaud when Her Greatness entered the room to talk to them before being arrested and taken to Govan Police station. 😀

orri

I’m more than convinced that the purpose of putting out press releases of the script of an intended speech is to road test them. The Sadiq Khan episode where he was forced to add in disclaimers springs to mind. As does the apparent change of “4 nations” to “Britons etc”.

It allows a certain amount of distancing from a contentious issue. Khan claims not to have said SNP and nationalists in Scotland aren’t racists but…

The problem is that if these speeches are the result of any focus groups or internal testing then the tweaks certainly aren’t. Neither of May’s version of at heart the same people is without flaws but the second one is by it’s very nature meaningless in supporting the union. All it does is stake a claim that the Westminster parliament is the parliament of “Britons” which obviously doesn’t include Khan, Sawar or any non-white non-christian minority in the UK. Scotland is not entitled to a vote on independence because we’re indistinguishable from the majority in England.

Or perhaps because there’s are Britons amongst us and they are more important than an national identity forged from the self same clanishness that forms an essential part of our collective subconscious. Many extended families who together form one nation. More than enough room for clans who originated outside Scotland.

Regardless of which if the original version of these speeches are the result of at least some kind of research and thought the changes lack the same rigour. Not that it really matters as the focus group approach either doesn’t work or the subtle innuendo is followed far too easily by those they’re trying to slag off.

May seems particularly incapable of going off script. Hence the repetition of a carefully constructed phrase with no actual ability to explain or elaborate upon it. That’s the danger in over rehearsing an argument.

manandboy

In East Kilbride today, at the Overseas Development building, Theresa May, in utterly hypocritical mode, will say:-

She will also argue that Britain’s aid spending shows “we are a big country that will never let down those in need” and that the UK will continue to play a global role as it leaves the EU.

Artyhetty

Oh to be a fly on the wall at Bute house today.

Oil? Nah, it’s all gone, no oil here, shhhhhhhhhh! 😉 Seriously though, some will literally kill for oil. England establishment should have shared out the proceeds of our oil at least, but am I deluded, they don’t do sharing do they.

Though Labour in Scotland did help out the UKtreasury by sending back more than a billion £s from Scotland’s budget, just before the ‘recession’. Labour ‘couldn’t think of anything to spend it on’ in Scotland. Not houses, not social care, not education, not the SNHS. Nope, they sent it back to UK treasury! Criminals.

Now is a crucial time for a Scotref to be in the pipeline, before brexit is done n dusted.

woosie

I’m certain that Nicola won’t use the same fawning awe which the ebc and sky interviewers adopt in St Theresa’s presence.

Why do none of them ever ask “why not answer the fucking question?”

jfngw

Disaster for Scotland, the curse of the largest undeveloped oil find has once again struck at the heart of the independence viability. How many more burdens can an independent Scotland take.

Scott

TM now is not the time,today on news she is now saying now is not the time to be talking about a referendum.

Part of Question&Answer Gerald Lyons.

SS: So, with the Article 50 looming, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is planning a counter-move – saying a second independence referendum is inevitable. Can the government in London stop the independence movement like it did last time?

GL: I don’t think this is the case of stopping the independence movement. What’s being made clear is that the timing of the referendum if there’s to be a second referendum will be set by Westminster. So the likelihood is that the second referendum will not come – if it happens – before the end of the Article 50 negotiations being completed. It’s by no means clear cut if Scotland has a second referendum that people in Scotland will vote to leave the UK. In the first referendum they voted to stay, Scotland gets a very good deal, shall we say, from the rest of the UK, and it’s likely that when they look at the pros and cons, the pros of being in the UK, outside of the EU, but position itself globally – that will outweigh. But of course, like all these issues, it’s not just about economics, there are emotional and other factors that come to play. But coming back to your question, yes, the PM can influence the timing of that referendum if there’s to be a second referendum.

SS: But just like Scotland, Northern Ireland voted ‘Remain’ in the Brexit referendum. Now it wants the Brexit treaty to spell out its right to join the EU immediately if it ever decides to unite with The Republic of Ireland. Should Belfast be getting these special conditions?

GL: In the UK referendum debate, and it was a 4-months debate, and we had a huge turnout of people – one of the key controversial areas was what would happen to the relationship between the South – the 26 counties and the North – the 6 counties of Ireland, and where would the border be. At the moment, we have peace in Northern Ireland, and everyone expects that to continue, and we have an open border between the North and the South. So, it is a complex area. I’ve spoken in Ireland last year, ahead of referendum results, I’ve debated with Ken Clarke who’s a leading politician here, and one of the points that was made by the politicians on the Irish side is that they would seek a “special relationship” with the EU, if the UK votes to leave. So, it is a complex area, but when it comes to Belfast, Northern Ireland, like Scotland, receives high spending. Northern Ireland, per person, receives 21% more spending than the average person in the UK; Scotland, per person, receives 16% more spending than the average person in the UK. That is government spending. So, there’s a lot of fiscal policy spent in Northern Ireland and in Scotland, rightly so, but that relationship between Northern Ireland and the South of Ireland is a complex one, and that’s seen by many people as a controversial area, but I think, common sense will prevail there as well.

We are paupers without Westminster.

Auld Rock

Though used in an entirely different set of circumstances I find the two words I once thought offensive now apply. I am of course referring to the late Rev. Ian Paisleys two word mantra repeated endlessly, “NO SURRENDER”.

Auld Rock

Nana

O/T

Re the black stuff, a bonus for London but such a burden for Scotland

link to thegwpf.com

link to indyref2.scot

Remember this
link to newsnet.scot

Never forget Wood said there was hardly any left.
Wood Group extends contract with Premier Oil in £40m deal
link to archive.is

Robert J. Sutherland

woosie,

Maybe the BBC can draft-in Glenn Campbell to do the honours in an interview with Mayhem, then. In that recent charade of a TV debate he has shown that he has the necessary fawning touch to a tee, as evidenced by his kid-glove deferential treatment of Prof. Two-Jobs, in stark contrast to his shouty attitude in the same programme to Fiona Hyslop.

Mark rob

Thank god we have you wings to filter the lies and bullshit for us

Nana

Here it is, the Maybot speaks. I believe the audience were told to clap for her and she refused questions.

link to youtube.com

DerekM

Oh no not more of that black worthless stuff i guess we now have a £30 billion deficit.

Funny how today the news gets released in what can only be described as an attempted PR recovery for mayhem.

What reason does she have for coming all the way to Scotland just to tell us the same now is not the time temporary power shiny beads rubbish except for to cover up the massive elephant in the room of Scottish oil wealth.

Lets see if this news is conveniently shoved aside in favour of the great new temporary Scottish powers now is not the time garbage by the howler monkey yoon scribblers.

heedtracker

Graun’s taking a far more aggresive smack down style of UKOKness. Or just another day of tory UK life really.

Politics
Politics live with Andrew Sparrow
May says she will never allow UK to become ‘looser and weaker’ – Politics live”

As they boost Lab and UKIP who are essentially a small and then tiny minority in Scotland as we know.

5m ago
14:58
Labour’s six Brexit tests – Analysis

Labour and Ukip have both produced six tests today that they will use to judge the outcome of Brexit.

Macart

‘Now is not the time’, because I’m trying to get the bestest deal possible for the whole of the UK including Scotland. (Mhm, are ye?)

‘Now is not the time’, because Scotland had a referendum in 2014 and chose to remain part of the UK. (No shit!)

‘Now is not the time’, because we completely fucked up the economy, the constitutional settlement and our societal bonds.

‘Now is not the time’, because if you decide to dissolve the political union, you’ll expose to the world the democratic deficit which drove you to make this decision. You’ll weaken to the point of shattering, an already catastrophically weak economy. You’ll be forcing the rest of the UK (what’s left) to pay for the mistakes they were willing to force on unwilling partners. You’ll expose our rank dishonesty and our sense of arrogant, authoritarian entitlement to the world and make us look like fools.

Or words to that effect… etc.

And that would be a shame, now wouldn’t it?

old highlander

Re the black stuff,

The oil rig West Phoenix lay at anchor in the Cromarty Firth for the past few months and was recently towed out by two tugs, at the time I thought nothing of it but curiosity got the better of me so I googled it and it is now lying off the north east of Shetland and is still there.

Proud Cybernat

Oh goodie! Mayhem is to offer her North Briton subjects shiny beads of ‘temporary powers’. Whoopee-effing-doo! You know why they are only ‘temporary’, right.

Because of the longer term Tory plan…

link to imgur.com

osakisushi

It was appalling NS didn’t turn up at Glasgow Airfield to meet TM when she came off the plane.

Isn’t that how respect is shown to foreign heads of state visitors?

Maybe next time…

old highlander

Oops, it is lying north west of Shetland.

heedtracker

So that’s nearly a whole live long day of Graun in Scotland coverage and not a mention of any SNP rep anywhere.

Old Severn’s an odd lad at the best of times but you’d think he’d still some professionalism left in his Great British journalist soul, to at least pretend to not be a ferocious yoon propagandist. Even old fraud like Carbuncle gets his two cents worth, about Lab but even so.

Christ imagine an alternate reality where UKOK hackdown is actually even mentioning YES Scots.

2h ago
13:37
Severin Carrell Severin Carrell
Theresa May said leaving the EU would be a “great national moment”, as she reinforced her claims that a unified UK is a more powerful force on the world stage in her speech to aid and development officials in East Kilbride

starlaw

Mayhem is asking us to all pull together for the Union. then refuses to let us see the rope.
She also talks of the four nations, would that be the two countries one principality and one province.

Walter Scott

The time is never right according to opponents. They should answer this question, When will the time be right? I’ll answer it for them. The time will never be right.

heedtracker

Graun just mentioned FM Sturgeon! “Peace in our time,” Scotland belongs to us, forever and ever, Brexit style moment next up, Rule Britannia and Empire 2.0, rejoice.

8m ago
15:06
Theresa May has arrived for her meeting with Nicola Sturgeon. This is from ITV’s Peter Smith.

Proud Cybernat

The Time is NOW…

link to youtube.com

Robert J. Sutherland

Macart @ 15:06:

…if you decide to dissolve the political union, you’ll … weaken to the point of shattering, an already catastrophically weak economy. You’ll be forcing the rest of the UK (what’s left) to pay for the mistakes they were willing to force on unwilling partners.

Unfortunately for the Mayhem Gang, that exposure is coming anyway. EU Chief Negotiator Michael Barnier recently, on the imminent Brexit wrangling:

These negotiations cannot take place in secret.

We will negotiate in a transparent and open manner, explaining to everyone what we are doing.

During these negotiations, we must also explain objectively what “leaving the European Union” means, for the withdrawing country and for the other Member States.

We need to tell the truth – and we will tell the truth – to our citizens about what Brexit means.

Which sounds both like a promise and a subtle threat.

robin

is anyone out there clever enough to calculate how many billion barrells 1.1 kilometre deep times 30 miles times 5 miles actually is?

Proud Cybernat

At least it’s nice to see Mayhem has more bottle to come up to Scotland to defend her precious Union. She cannot now say do a Cameron and absolve herself of her responsibility to be the lead debater in the BT2/PF2 campaign. Will she have the bottle to debate our First Minister when the time comes? Nae chance!

Bob Mack

You can also bet your bottom dollar that if oil has been found W of Shetland then it probably stretches down the length of the W Coast, and will include gas.fields.

Lots of lovely lolly.?

Valerie

@starlaw

My Slab leaflet is printed in Scotland.

However, I have emailed the candidate to express my disgust at exhorting everyone to use postal votes, because

“Postal votes are now open to everyone and you don’t need a special reason to apply”

He then says get in touch. The only contact details are the number 1 and 2 candidates.

I would have complained to Electoral commission but they don’t have anything to do with election material.

There are several underhanded issues at play here not least harvesting of e-mail details which I believe there are rules about how you do that.

Valerie

Robin @3.30

Yes, I’ve done the calculation. It’s hunners.

Breeks

Theresa must have something to offer, or threaten, but I don’t see it doing any good. Perhaps it’s a reply to the SNP’s proposals so far ignored by Westminster. It all seems a bit impromptu, since without the incident at Westminster, the ScotRef would already be happening.

May hasn’t toned down her rhetoric, so I’m predicting frowny faces after the meeting…

geeo

Patrick Harvey interviewed on BBC news 24 channel about half an hour ago, very good interview, clear, concise, and took no shite from a passive aggressive clown news anchor.

“So you are just going to ignore the vote last year then…”?

“You mean the vote which resulted in a clear desire for Scotland to remain in the EU, yet sees Scotland taken out against our will”?

Proud Cybernat

And – Now IS the Time

link to youtube.com

Macart

@Robert J. Sutherland

Yes. Yes it does.

robin

yeah i have also just done the oil calculation.
This field could be huge: up to 300 billion barrels.
That could buy lots of guns and finance no end of wars for empire 2.0

Nana

O/T

A few links re Brexit

link to commonspace.scot

Brexit: EU’s chief negotiator tells Theresa May she won’t get a new trade deal if she slashes taxes and rights
link to archive.is

link to bloomberg.com

If one looks at the official coverage of the station about just about everything that is related to the EU, one might sometimes get the impression that the BBC has mutated into the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation.

Use your translate function for the rest of the article
link to sueddeutsche.de

T.roz

Robin,

I have done a quick calculation of barrels of oil in a well the size of 1.1km x 30 miles x 5miles. A well volume of 3.7 trillion cube. A barrel of oil is 158 ltrs so there are about 6 barrels per cube, so that means 22.2 trillion barrels! Assuming the well is to the beak with nothing but oil.

Shell and bp will be delighted, especially since the UK doesn’t collect any tax from these greedy bandits.

DaveM

Have you seen Jill Stephenson’s rant of a letter to today’s Hootsmon, regarding the SNP’s mandate to hold a referendum? She’s turned selective quoting into a comedy masterpiece…

Jack Murphy

STV News on-line.
“The UK will be “more united” as a result of leaving the European Union, the Prime Minister has said.” !

Unbelievable. 🙁

Gail Hughes

Arbroath1320 says:
27 March, 2017 at 12:11 pm
Apparently Mayhem arrived at Govan Police station about an hour ago. Here’s hoping she was charged with impersonating an intelligent respectful caring human being.

Sorry, the Police said there was insufficient evidence.

ronnie anderson

Ah wee tune for Briandoonthetoon

link to youtube.com

Dafty left his anorak on my couch wie his house key’s & van keys in the pocket, so’s another trip to Cumbernauld for me today to meet up wie him.

Vestas

I play a game called Eve Online. Its full of some of the brightest and/or most disturbed people you’re ever likely to come across. Anyway one of the guys I knew in the game (he quit) was a “No” voting Scot who was Phd qualified in the oil game.

He educated me somewhat on the levels of recovery you could expect based on depth/oil price. Oh and by “educated” I mean linked me to technical articles rather than political stuff 😉

The tl;dr of what he linked to is at the depths reported its likely it’d only be profitable to take 50%. Beyond that you start running into various technical issues which get worse in a non-linear way depending on local conditions.

I appreciate that might not seem like much of a tl;dr but trust me it is 🙂

ronnie anderson

@ oaskisushie The official residence of the FM is Bute House & thats not in glasgow May should have been told to make another appointment.

heedtracker

I appreciate that might not seem like much of a tl;dr but trust me it is

In the 80’s, yoon culture raged at Scots that their oil would be gone by the year 2000.

There is a massive house building boom in Aberdeen, and I mean it is just colossal, but why would so much big money be pumped into mass market chicken coop housing for a dying oil industry?

Never trust a tory. Unless they’ve discovered another kind of not Scots resource to loot out there. Prices still way high too.

Tinto Chiel

Exclusive footage from East Kilbride as Defence Secretary Michael Fallon and Colonial Governor David Mundell serenade the Prime Minister on her arrival:

link to youtube.com

Fireproofjim

T Rox
Good calculation of the volume of the oilfield, unfortunately most of the volume is rock
The oil is dispersed in grains of sand or cracks in the rock matrix and the pressure of the overlying 20,000 feet of rock will drive it to the surface once the impermeable cap rock is pierced.
There are no huge pools of oil as some people think, and they will never get all the oil out. It used to be thought good to get 40% of the oil in place but this has improved with new drilling methods.
However, the new Hurricane Energy field is still a remarkable addition to Scotland’s offshore wealth and there are probably billions of recoverable barrels.

Jim Morris

May went to the ODA in East Kilbride, the caring face of Britain she said: the Britain that refused entry to 3500 war displaced/perhaps orphaned children because of one person with fake documents; the Britain that stopped matching £ for £ with major third world helping charities because that was bad for our image and the money could be better directed to the war on terror. And then on to Police Scotland the biggest force in Britain and the only one with a VAT. Bill on all purchases of equipment or premises.

Effijy

I had a go at calculating the Cubic Miles of Oil within SCOTLAND’S
Latest Oil Field.

I make it to be equal to 102.54 Cubic Miles of Oil.

This equates to:
$2 Trillion,688 Billion,298 Million, 864 Thousand and 222 Barrels!

With Brent Crude trading today at $50.24 per barrel, you are looking at a sum way over 1.3441494 to the power of 14

The sum is way over $100 Trillion, roughly $1.3 Trillion plus tips.

As we know, figures must be rounded down when the name Scotland appears, so we can be safe in the knowledge that it will be more

This will take 40 years to get out and the price will rise as other sources run out, but I think Scotland should take out a
£15 Billion loan from the IMF pay Westminster their made up number and tel them to keep the tips.

We can pay it off in 5 years time, become the 2nd richest nation on the planet, regarding GDP, and we can bare our kilted Ar**s to the parasites over the border with no oil, no trading agreements, no employment rights, no old age pension, no NHS, an NO they CANNOT get a special deal from Scotland.

Dal Riata

The UKOKers don’t give a shit about those that live in Scotland and call it home.

It’s what Scotland’s land and seas provide as they are now: miles upon miles of empty, environmental waste lands caused by an over-population of deer – not people – which can then be shot for fun as ‘sport’ ; and seas rich in fish and rich in oil under their seabeds to be used to keep their well-dodgy economic ‘strategy’ on track.

The people who call Scotland home, 5.2m of them, could all die and turn to dust tomorrow and the UKOKers wouldn’t? care, not one bit. The pesky natives would be gone and all the land and sea would be theirs for the taking – Happy days! and Rule Britannia!

Tell that to the ProudScotButs, though….

Vestas

@heedtracker 4:30 pm

“I appreciate that might not seem like much of a tl;dr but trust me it is

In the 80’s, yoon culture raged at Scots that their oil would be gone by the year 2000.

..snip…

Never trust a tory.”

I didn’t. I trusted the technical articles he linked – many of which had to do with the gulf of mexico in terms of depth and weren’t written by anyone interested in unionism or any other sort of “ism” 🙂

You do go off half-cocked a lot of the time 🙂

Dal Riata

It’s not about looking for ‘compromise?s’, ‘agreements’ or ‘settlements’ – that’s just bullshit Unionist waffle-speak.

Scotland is the engine that keeps their clown-car economy wobbling along as it is now.

Take that away, ie Scotland goes independent and uses *its* resources for *its* economy, and the whole rUK (UK) clown-car falls apart and exposes who the real driver of the UK economy was until then.

Legerwood

O/T but not by much

UK Government revoked the jurisdiction of International Court of Justice over Trident related matters.

link to basicint.org

Seems to be a move, in part, to prevent claims by the residents of the Marshall Islands suing UK etc because of nuclear testing in that area in the past

Fireproofjim

Effigy
Sorry but there are no large pools of oil in an oilfield. It is 99% rock. See my previous comment at 4.32

Robert Louis

Just watched economic analyst on BBC new channel, stating that the new oil find in Scottish waters is indeed significant, around a billion barrels. He compared it to the previous largest field, Fortes, which was around 5 billion barrels.

Of course, as we all know up here in Scotland, such good news will be a burden to Scotland. Scotland cannot possibly cope with such a large oil reserve, and our best course of action will be to keep on handing it over to England free of charge, just as we have done for forty years.

Old highlander

Now IS the time……….

To tell westminster and mayhem to **** ***

Mike

Borg Queen: Hey Ginger! We need to talk aboot this Tartan Gene oh yours infecting the harmony O ma happy collec… eh eh Union.

Ginger Rebel: Now is no the time.

Borg Queen: Whit? splutter choke Whit the fuck?

Ginger Rebel: Come back when Riverside is finished.

Thepnr

O/T I want to mention disruption to threads and why it’s bad.

There are certain posters who post on this site who do not have an Independent Scotland in mind when making their posts. The exact opposite is in fact true.

They want to keep Scotland shackled to the Union, that simply is their job. Paid or not makes no difference they are disruptive and seek to spread dissent, create arguments and basically cause as much mischief as possible.

They really are not worth bothering with folks, responding to anyone with that agenda gives them a victory of sorts so please don’t do it.

There must have been thousands of people visiting Wings for the first time and saw these “discussions” going on and immediately fled never to be back.

Let’s never lose site of the fact that the main job of Wings and her contributors btl is to educate, get the truth out and inform our fellow Scots. Wings is an extremely valuable resource to the Yes movement and of course the UK government is paying it attention.

Do not engage is my advise, never. Feel free to write a contrary view to that of the troll but don’t direct that at the troll but at all Wings readers.

Always remember who your potential audience is, it is the whole of Scotland’s electorate and not just “Wingers” or anyone else.

We on here need to up our game as well, I’m trying to up mine as to be honest I think I needed to.

So with the goal in mind always, I’m sure you can too. Ignore them.

ronnie anderson

@ Effigy I wish people would stop propagating the mith that Scotland owes any monies to Westminster they have stolen enough of our resources for centuries & continues to do so with their partners in crime

Mike

Thepnr

How do we recognise these efforts of disruption to the cause of Scottish Indy?

Proud Cybernat

In addition to Thepnr – If your instinct suspects a troll, it is probably right. At least–my instinct has always been right in identifying such individuals.

Vestas

5bn barrels sounds on the low side to me – a long way on the low side.

On the technical stuff – yes we can extract a lot more than we used to be able to. The more extracted from a “field” the higher the risk of collapse/leak.

However when (not if) there’s another leak* but it happens at serious depth then we’re into another Deepwater Horizon situation.

That turns a petrochemical economy into a petrochemical ecology very fast & we don’t want that.

So dial back the “loads of money” stuff – yes its more money but we’re not selling licences yet are we?

*they happen frequently in the North Sea (google it)

Dan Huil

Britnat May is arrogant and ignorant in her dealings with Scotland. Scotland has to break free from such people.

Blair Paterson

The new oilfield discovery is great news but what about the Clyde not miles away in deep water but right beside us do they think we have forgotten about that it will be easier to bring ashore both oil and men no helicopters needed etc., it is like they never want to talk about tide power because they can’t fault it or use the excuse the tide never came in today like they do about wind power they want all our oil energy etc., to appear so hard to get and make it appear so expensive so they can charge the moon for it when in reality if common sense were applied it would be easier and much cheaper I mean if wanted to pick mushrooms I would look in the nearest wood to me I would not start looking in a wood miles away

Flower of Scotland

@Mike 5.15pm

Don’t worry Mike. Wingers know who these disruptive folk are?

Robert Louis

Thepnr at 506pm.

Very well said. I am sick and tired of the people on this site who see it as a ‘game’ to play along with the trolls. It isn’t, it just puts other ‘new’ people off coming here.

When you respond over and over again to trolls, you don’t look clever, you don’t look smart, you just look stupid. The job of a troll is to distract the discussion, and when you reply to them you ENABLE them. You, by replying to trolls make the job of a troll that much easier.

PLEEEEEASE stop these endless, pointless ‘arguments’ with trolls. Ignore them and, as everybody else on the internet already has learned, they go away. They cannot survive, unless idiots start replying.

Capella

@ Thepnr – agree – total ignoral is the best policy IMO.

@ ronnie anderson – how did the PQ demo go? I haven’t seen any reports in the media. Hope you had a good day.

Les Wilson

Still nothing yet from Nicola and mayhem?

Polscot

Breaking news : First Minister meets unelected dictator of a one-party state to push the ideals of democracy and electoral mandates.

Mike

Thepnr

“Let’s never lose site of the fact that the main job of Wings and her contributors btl is to educate, get the truth out and inform our fellow Scots. Wings is an extremely valuable resource to the Yes movement and of course the UK government is paying it attention.”

Another equally valuable and effective source is “BBC Scotlandshire”

It employs Satire Irony humour and projection in an effective and devastating form of direct attack on the State bias of the BBC.
And in doing so it “educates” and “gets the truth out and informs our fellow Scots.”

Of course you have to be able to recognise the difference between the real BBC and the fact that it is a Parody site.

Not something I fear somebody who is unable to distinguish between pro Indy posters from pro union disruptors is going to be able to do.

Mike

Flower of Scotland

I know WOS does but it seems some contributors cant tell the difference.

Dan Huil

Oh so “precious precious”. Britnats make me boak.

Proud Cybernat

DON’T take the bait folks. Let it go hungry and search for food elsewhere.

Mike

@Proud Cybernat

Damn good advice. Wish Id taken it before I responded to an “Off Topic” poster.

Roboscot

STV News reports Theresa May announcing a major counter-terrorism exercise in Scotland involving Police Scotland. She announced it at Govan police station. Policing is devolved, so it’s spectacularly undiplomatic to do this. This is how she means to go on?

Simon MacDonald

1.375 × 10 power 14 imperial gallons
Thats the most that can be in there assuming the measurements are correct, the area is a clean cuboid and that area is 100% full of oil.
Im guessing its not as simple as that because that is a trully bonkers anount!!!

Hamish100

If you google about the oil find you will see it is mentioned pre 2014 as not true in some papers. But there we go we were lied too.

With this oil field find and more to come we are obviously poorer than we were last week. Why can’t we be like the Saudi’s with all their resources like sand – just think how wealthy we could be.
We should demand an oil fund pre independence.

twathater

I am gobsmacked, crivvens , jings, help ma boab ,instead of FFS I listened to the 1 o’clock bamstick news and heard them announce the NEW massive oil field find , something that we wingers were informed about months ago by intelligent contributors and Stu
I was shocked that Scotchlands lying media would give the Scots any good news ,they announced a field of possibly 1 billion barrels of oil , I was taken all over funny , but then back to normal they canny help themselves , they followed it up with , a but it’s no as big as previous bigger finds that urnae there any mair , so that’s awright then the burd hisnae been substituted by a clone

Vestas

@Blair Paterson 5:20 pm :

“The new oilfield discovery is great news but what about the Clyde….snip….”

Umm no. The Clyde has enough problems without oil. If it was the only oil available then absolutely.

Remember its not “if”, its “when” a leak will occur. I know that sounds like doom-mongering but I’m an engineer.

Everything fails sooner or later. You need to analyse the failure modes and the likely damage.

In the case of the Clyde any oil leak is likely to be contained entirely within the estuary due to prevailing winds. This is going to take a couple of decades to recover from.

So Clyde 0 – 1 Way up North on the inevitable leaks if we go your way.

tl;dr oil is going to leak when you pump it out. It always does.

Thepnr

Regarding the oil West of Shetland it is potentially massive. Schehallion and Foinavon both BP operated were the first two and are still going strong having produced already 100’s of millions of barrels.

So much so that BP have recently put a brand new FPSO in the Schehallion field, plenty more from there in the next 20 years.

BP Clair phase 2 also recently installed is a massive gas field and Phase 3 is on the drawing boards. Solan by Premier Oil and Totals Laggan Tormore another huge Gas field just opened.

What has stopped these fields in the past in this area is that it is extremely hostile with regard to the massive waves and there was no pipeline infrastructure in place, now there is the infrastructure and we can design platforms to cope with the extreme enviroment.

The N. Atlantic West of Shetland has the potential to as lucrative as the N. Sea has been. Possibilities are huge.

Keep the faith.

Hamish100

Vestas

If we take that attitude would you fly, catch a train , use a scooter ?

Isn’t new engineering controls of 2017 better than 1970’s . Either way unless we get our independence it won’t be our decision .

galamcennalath

Short statement from Nicola on TV.

Sounds like May offered nothing, said nothing new.

Fair enough, we can get on and be ready for ScotRef in 18-24 months time when the terms are known and almost ctainly fall short of being acceptable to the Scottish Government/Parliament.

Robert J. Sutherland

Roboscot 17:45,

Yes! It is definitely how she means to go on. Mayhem is a control freak with a special interest in state-organised snooping, as was already apparent from her time as UK Home Secretary.

She just can’t help herself. It will become an unfolding tragedy of truly Shakespearean proportions. With us as unwilling participants, unless we can turn ourselves PDQ into spectators instead.

One_Scot

When did the News channels start calling Scottish waters UK waters?

Nana

Nicola on the meeting with you know who

link to twitter.com

Marcia

T May is not your touchy feely make of politician. Her visit to Glasgow and East Kilbride seems a waste of taxpayers money. It proves one thing, Nicola has a better tan. 🙂

Iain More

So Nicola Sturgeon didn’t meet May as May had lined up a propaganda slot for the Disreporting Scotland mafia. Nicola obviously decided that “this is not the time” for such umm meetings.

Now on more serious matters what are the Yes Friendly pubs in Aberdeen since it is a beautiful evening here and I am still in a good mood after Scotland’s late winner last night. Making my way slowly home to Moray having finally dried out after that brutal and wet friendly against Canada on Wednesday.

Nana

@Marcia

Aye you are right, Nicola looks healthy and tanned, May looks like she needs a blood transfusion

link to archive.is

Vestas

@Hamish100 6:09 pm :

“Vestas

If we take that attitude would you fly, catch a train , use a scooter ?

Isn’t new engineering controls of 2017 better than 1970’s . Either way unless we get our independence it won’t be our decision .”

Of course I would & do.

In fact if you’ve ever flown on an Airbus (any version/type over the last 25 years) then you’ve partially put your fate in the hands of my wife as she’s written/reviewed/fixed a lot of engine management code for both RR and GE.

See engineers make things work and we understand that things inevitably fail. You plan for that failure otherwise you’re no sort of engineer. EVERYTHING FAILS – its called entropy 😉

sinky

Did BBC UK national news even mention the massive oil find?

galamcennalath

The problem can be put very simply – May and her Tory chums believe they have a mandate and the exclusive right to make decisions for the whole UK. However, the whole UK doesn’t agree.

geeo

The BBC News 24 channel has run the story all day, but not many watch that…

Notice how STV News ran the story with a previously not mentioned punchline…”finding it is one thing…getting it out the ground is another…”

Despite the fact that those who found the reserves,have STATED that “ALMOST ALL of it should be recoverable”.

Pure spewing so they are…

Mike

Here is my pro unionist 5th column disruptive opinion on what I believe happened today between the PM and FM.

I believe the PM came up to Scotland to propose an under the table deal with a condition that it is not revealed to the media or general public.
I don’t believe she simply came up just to repeat “Now is not the time” or to talk curtains and carpets for Bute House.

Now whether or not this under the table deal is acceptable to both parties will remain unknown but what we may see in the near or not too distance future is a subtle coming together of postures over Brexit and an INEVITABLE Indyref.

No matter what the rhetoric no matter what the media noise is the fact that another Indyref is going to happen I believe Teresa May has already made that much of a concession to Nicola Sturgeon.

It may be that they also agreed on a probable timetable which would fit with the PMs rhetoric of “NOT NOW”.
But it will have to come about in a manner in which the UK Governments face is saved and it cant and wont look like a climb down because another inevitable fact exists.
The Scottish Governments timetable is only negotiable within very strict and defined boundaries which enables Scotland to remain in the EU while the rUK exits.

The FM cannot concede on that issue anymore than the PM can concede on the issue of border control.

The significance of today will be in what isn’t being reported by the media.

Mike

“The PM decides to come To Scotland for a “quiet chat” with the FM and we have an announcement of a new massive Oil find West of Shetland.”

Deflection anybody?

The Dog Philosopher

A response to Dave McEwan Hill at 12.05

I’ve noticed your letters appearing in the DR from time to time. There was a good one other day regarding GERS which the DR chose to ‘balance’ with one praising the Kevin Vague column. So it goes.

I notice today (the day that Nicola has her own page) that there is a particularly vindictive letter from plain old Jill Stephenson of Edinburgh slagging off the SNP along with an unflattering picture of Phillipa Whittford. I agree with you that we Yessers should make our presence felt in the anti-Yes press. And I respect that there are those on Wings who boycott all-things-yoon which is understandable, but I agree that we have to venture beyond the Yes bubble to get our message across.

One thing I’ve noticed is that those who love to decry the SNP never seem to offer up any alternative, never seem to declare who they would prefer to fill Nicola’s shoes, just SNPBaaaad and no suggested alternative. Call them out is what I say.

Call them out …

Valerie

@Vestas

I hear you, makes sense too. Why risk pollution of that scale in that area? There’s enough pollution in that area to be dealt with.

It’s about risk assessment surely, and as you say, plenty other options.

Liz g

Vestas @ 6.28
Entropy…..But Whisky can fix it AYE ?????

Iain More

AH FFS NO MARE BLOODY OIL!

Al Dossary

Re Hurricane Energy’s latest RNS.

The figure given by them is that the wells in Lancaster and Halifax have an oil column in excess of 1,000m with no sign of the water/oil contact encountered. Forties has an estimated, average thickness of oil bearing strata of 350m.

So basically they are sitting on 5 exploration wells, two of which (they think) are part of a 30km long prospect between Lancaster and Halifax prospects. Huge is not the word !

Dan Huil

@Iain More 6:19pm

Try The Howff and McGinty’s both on Union Street.

Dr Jim

There are NO under the table deals
The SNP don’t and won’t do that, they’re not stupid and they’re NOT the Tories

Scotland’s been sold before, it will never happen under the SNP we’ve got long memories about Tories of all colours

ephemeraldeception

An intersting statement in the BBC artucele on the oil find.

“However, it is still a fifth of the size of the Forties field, which contains about five billion barrels – of which approximately two billion have been recovered.”

So that leaves ‘just’ 3 billion. Not sure if all that is recoverable but its a good point that the biggest ever field is still more than half full.

Do we really want all the future benefit from this to go to London and never come back?

Wheres our oil fund Theresa?

Clootie

What was said when they first looked at how Oil could be recovered from the North Sea.

“If you pay smart people enough money,” , “they’ll figure out all sorts of ways to get the oil you need out”.

Artyhetty

Has anyone got any ideas, info about what was said? I am getting the distinct feeling that a hige, nasty threat of some kind was made and that Scotref might not be announced. Will the vote for it go ahead tomorrow? Just a thought, I could be very wrong.

ronnie anderson

@ Cappella Video = photo’s are on F/B Scot2,scot & on the BBC protest page . I spoke to Kevin (livestream ) about their video , that will be posted once he’s edited the footage.

Many Thanks to the Many Wingers who turned out for the event.

boris

The oilfield story released today. I covered this on 17 January this year. Wonder why the delay

link to caltonjock.com

robin

the forties field is 90 km2
30 miles by 5 miles = 388 km2
1.1km deep
now we know why Cameron went on his secret mission

Clootie

I started offshore in the same decade as the Forties. The target then was 30percent recovery and due to the basic drilling techniques and non existent subsea technology four expensive platforms were required.

A new field will be looking for 60percent plus recovery using directional drilling and subsea tie-backs.

This is a major find and will operated at a fraction of the costs of the first generation set ups.

Will we be conned again regarding the burden of such a curse and allow Breiteers to “manage it ” for us.

Hamish100

Vestas

Extraction of oil is called profit.

ephemeraldeception

FYI

Largets Norwegian oil field is small compared to Forties:

“Ekofisk, the oldest oil field in the Norwegian North Sea, contained approximately 129 million cubic metres of remaining recoverable reserves as of December 2012 making it the biggest oil field in Norway.”

Compare to the 670 million cubic meters of Forties.
BP sold the field in 2003, their reservoir engineers estimated the STOIIP was 4.2 billion barrels (670 million cubic metres)
and is now then at about 3 billion.

These are the kind of very basic stats, on the doorstep, we need in indyref2.

Dr Jim

Carwyn Jones says Theresa May has a tin ear The Norn Irish are in full non co-operation mode Scotland’s on the edge of leaving

Yeah Treeza we’re all pulling together

Are some of her people no telling her stuff?

Davy

Well after the disaster of finding even more fucking oil I have something to cheer you up.

Labour have came out with six TESTS for them to support brexit.

The beauty is the sixth one, anyone requiring the toilet please do so now :

Sixth TEST – Ensuring the same benefits currently enjoyed within the single market.

And no, there are no surprise gifts for getting the correct answer.

Chick McGregor

There can be no clear Brexit deal until the constitutional status of Scotland is settled by indyref2.

How can May and Co use Scottish fishing, farming, oil and energy as negotiation beads for London’s benefit if Scotland’s constitutional future is not settled?

Why would any EU negotiator accept any such guarantees from May until that happens?

Robert Louis

I don’t know about anybody else here, but right now I’m angrier than ever at Westminster and the moronic clown they have as their English Prime Minister. She thinks that somehow coming up to Scotland, and generally P*ssing everybody off, wasting the First Minister’s time and then leaving, Scots will somehow say ‘you know Theresa’s right, we’d best not have a referendum’.

Scotland is NOT leaving the EU, and if you want a fight, then that may just happen.

Today’s patronising and insulting behaviour by the English Prime Minister, just makes me even more determined to make independence a reality for Scotland. Insult our First Minister and you insult all of us.

What an insulting and patronsing bunch of barstewards they really are in London. They really, really do not get Scotland, and think they can just treat us with contempt over and over again. THIS is EXACTLY how they behaved towards Ireland, and which led to Ireland declaring independence, regardless of what Westminster thought of it. I really am sick and fed up with them. It is time Nicola Sturgeon stopped being so nice and accomodating to them.

Meanwhile the media is in full propaganda mode (as usual).

Tomorrow, when our Parliament votes for the referendum, Nicola should demand a section 30, then if refused, she should immediately state the referendum will be held, WITHOUT consulting Westminster at any stage. It will be Scotland’s referendum, made in Scotland, for Scotland. Westminster can go swivel.

I really am so sick of Westminster. They really are a bunch of Scotland hating, pig ignorant c****.

Dave McEwan Hill

The Dog Philosopher at 6.48

Cheers. I replied to the one about tuition fees today. We’ll see if it gets in

Dan Huil
frogesque

@Artyhetty 7.18

I very much suspect T. Rex wanted a cosy joint statement but our own Nippy Sweetie gave her the proverbial Provan kiss.

robin

so a simple calculation given the size of the new field on size and depth directly comparing it to the Forties field whose production and reserves are well documented gives this new discovery likely to hold a minimum of 65 billion barrels which is worth $3250 billion at $50 a barrel
but we are too poor and stupid, what a shame, we need to give it to Theresa to give to her city chums

Robert Peffers

@Thepnr says: 27 March, 2017 at 5:06 pm:

“O/T I want to mention disruption to threads and why it’s bad.
There are certain posters who post on this site who do not have an Independent Scotland in mind when making their posts. The exact opposite is in fact true.”

Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid. First of all you are not the person who decides what the purpose of the Rev Stu’s blog is. That’s the Rev Stu’s choice to make. Secondly you probably wouldn’t recognise a real Troll if it was chewing on your ear.

In the third place replying to the real troll can in fact not only send the Troll back under their bridge but more significantly can inform those who might be sucked in by the Troll of the real truth.

Here’s a very recent troll like subject that seems to be emanating from the media, Unionists, Trolls and even actual genuine yessers. While Troll like it seems that many genuine Yessers have swallowed the lies as truths.

I refer to the misinformation, from all and sundry, that Westminster has the legal powers to prevent the Scottish Government from holding a referendum upon any subject that the SG chooses to call a referendum on to ascertain what the people of Scotland think on a particular subject.

The question beggared is thus, “What exactly is a Section 30 Order anyway? It sure as hell is NOT a Westminster power to stop Holyrood holding a referendum on anything whenever Holyrood pleases to do so.

It may explain for such as you why I have chosen to reply to the Troll, Yessers and the Media alike on the matter and why doing so will not drive away lurkers on Wings.

Just what is a, “Section 30 Order”, and what is it a section of anyway?

A “Section 30 order”, refers to Section 30 of, “The Scotland Act 1998.”

Now that I have given a cite to the source of the truth – can doubters please go and verify for themselves what I have posted about on this particular subject?

The Scotland ACT 1998 empowered the Crown, (that in practice is not the Queen but means the UK Government), to make an Order in Council amending the list of matters that are reserved to the UK Parliament and it appear in Schedule 5 of the Act.

Section 30 Orders, though, can only be made if a draft is first placed before the Scottish Parliament, House of Commons and House of Lords, and is approved by all three. These legal constraints essentially give each institution a veto over the terms of any such order from any of te institutions.

Have you got it now? Each of the institutions has the legal right to veto whatever the other institution might attempt to do. All fine but how does that work in practice?

It boils down to this – The Scotland Act 1998 lays down, precisely, exactly what powers the Westminster Government has granted to the devolved parliament of Scotland. The fact is that there is nothing in the act about power to run a referendum. So legally no powers have been granted by Westminster for Holyrood to run a referendum.

However, no powers have been refuse to Holyrood to hold a referendum either, and if Westminster attempts to now impose such a condition upon Holyrood to prevent them holding a referendum the ACT gives Holyrood a legal veto to prevent that change being legally implemented.

If that is not clear then please feel free to ask some actual legally qualified person to explain it for you.

Perhaps now you see how replying to what you imagine to be Trolls can be used to great advantage to inform those lurkers, and misinformed Wingers who like you claim, (without offering evidence they are right), that lurkers are being driven away by replying to either Trolls or uninformed wingers?

If I believed for a moment I was only posting comments to already committed Indy supporters I would be posting and commenting elsewhere. No benefit can be made in preaching the same sermons over and over again to the already converted.

ronnie anderson

@ Robert Louis
Like you im pissed off with the political niceties . Nicola Sturgeon should start playing hardball dont respond to Mays summons PISS OFF unless they’re is a material change in your attitude Teresa & Im going to blow a big hole in your £15 deficit shite.

K1

Kuensberg is tweeting:

‘No 10 disputes claim May accepted Scot gov timetable for Brexit clarity – ‘for the birds’ to think all done in 18 months, source says’

Nicola just tweeted in response tae that:

‘PM v clear to me in meeting that she intended terms of Brexit – exit & future deal – to be clear before UK leaves & in time for ratification’

The propaganda offensive has began within hours, is Theresa May calling Nicola Sturgeon a liar?

harry mcaye

STV News are now almost as bad as BBC Scotland. No mention of the huge oil story in their headlines (four items) and the story well down their running order. Notice they also used a pic of an unsmiling FM next to May, even BBC Scotland managed to show a good pic of Nic.

Reporting Scotland at lunchtime made the oil their second story and had an outside broadcast form Kevin Keane in Aberdeen. Tonight it was fourth and skirted over in 30 seconds. Disgusting.

Orri

Obviously the Henry the 8th manner of altering existing laws isn’t the right one due to Parliament either at Westminster, Holyrood or elsewhere having a fair chance at reversing any damage done.

The real example of a working precedent that actually involved the imposition of “Westminster” rule on Scotland would be Cromwell. I wonder if May thinks of herself as being in the same mold, especially in his later dictatorship. A Lady Protectress as it were. She certainly takes the piss.

Mike

Ive just had a pro Union 5th column disruptive epiphany.

Regarding the timing of an Indyref relative to a Brexit deal closure and ratification process.

Suppose an Indyref is held at a time when the deal has been reached and ratification is in process.

Wont a successful Yes vote make any agreement null and void as it would have been based on a FULL UK exit?

At that point the Scottish Government will be arguing to remain and not leave so any agreement at the point between the UK and the EU will have to be modified not ratified.

Just a thought.

Mike

“Chick McGregor says:
27 March, 2017 at 7:25 pm
There can be no clear Brexit deal until the constitutional status of Scotland is settled by indyref2”

Ah yes I think I just made that point as well before I read this.

yesindyref2

@Robert Peffers
I totally support Thepnr and his posting.

galamcennalath

Chick McGregor says:

There can be no clear Brexit deal until the constitutional status of Scotland is settled by indyref2.

I agree. I can’t see how Matt al can negioate on behalf of Scotland when neither side knows if Scotland is going to end up on their side!

We could be within Brexit UK, or within the EU!

Which side speaks for us? At the moment it would appear to be the UK, but if we ‘flip’ then anything agreed is invalid. The deal needs to have provision for our final decision. Same true of NI.

Robert Peffers

@ronnie anderson says: 27 March, 2017 at 7:41 pm:

“Like you im pissed off with the political niceties . Nicola Sturgeon should start playing hardball dont respond to Mays summons PISS OFF unless they’re is a material change in your attitude Teresa & Im going to blow a big hole in your £15 deficit shite.”

It doesn’t work like that, Ronnie. Nicola has to stay within those political niceties – that’s her job that we elected her to do and I’m sure it bugs her a damned site more than it bugs you and I.

I don’t know if you noticed that Alex Salmond when FM also had to recognise the political correctness but instantly became a little more aggressive when then becoming a Westminster MP where the constraints are less.

The job of telling the likes of the old bat May and her Yoons the feelings of Scottish Indy supporters in plain language, or even flowery language, is our job and most Wingers do indeed do just that.

Ye dae a grand job in yon respect yersel, Ronnie. Hooivvir, dinna get ony o yer hairy string ower near ony Yoon thrapples – they pit ye awa fir yon.

Bob Mack

My neighbour tells me Alex Salmond is on a special Question Time edition tonight all about Brexit. Should be good. On at 8.30 apparently.

Thepnr

@Robert Peffers

You know something Robert you post a lot of stuff that people may like. You also tend to attack anyone who doesn’t have exactly the same view as you. Why?

Give it a rest Robert, sure give us your opinion but tell me once more that “Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid.”

Then you will also be ignored. You should STOP being disrespectful to other posters. Give me your opinion by all means but stop telling me that mine is shite. OK.

Lenny Hartley

Robert Peffers I think you better speak to the Scots Government legal dept, you obviously no more than they do.

ronnie anderson

@ Robert Peffers

No discussion forum needs Trolls, this site is to important to put up with Trolls disrupting threads , by your responses your encouraging them to the point that you yourself are subjected to the abuse & Wingers jump in in support of a respected Winger as is Thepnr & your comment on him.

Your doing the work of the Troll Robert by being the cause of friction between Wingers. I hope you will be man enough to offer a apology to Thepnr. And before you say it ,NO im not the moderator of Wings I am however a Moderator on a F/B site & I would have taken you to task as Im doing now ,but the outcome would have been much different.

I BLOCK TROLLS not engage with them.

Brian Powell

What happens if all of Scotland’s assets are bartered in May’s Brexit deal, I wonder. I would hope the FM makes it clear they are not Mays to barter.

Fireproofjim

Alex Salmond on Question NOW

Liz g

Robert Peffers I also think Thepnr’s post was spot on regarding the disruption on the main thread lately.
While aye it is indeed the Revs place to say …..He’s no here all the time is he???
He canny be everywhere at once and as I am sure you will agree mostly has better things to be doing.
Soooo!!!

Ken500

Alex on the telly.

Birmingham.

Melanie Philips again.

Speaking about Brexit,

Alex will sock it to them. Get stuck in.

Dafty Davis.

schrodingers cat

they would have been dancing in the streets of East Kilbridge tonight but treeza said, “no the now”

Robert Peffers

@yesindyref2 says: 27 March, 2017 at 7:54 pm:

“I totally support Thepnr and his posting.”

Please yourself. That’s your right but, like Thepnr it is not your right to tell anyone on the Rev Stu’s blog who they can or cannot reply to.

Nether does the fact you agree with Thepnr make either of you right or indeed make you wrong. It just confirms you agree with each other.

Robert Louis

Just to say I wholly agree with Thepnr and Ronnie Anderson regarding trolls.

We may think we are helping others ‘see the truth’ by addressing them with arguments, but we are merely making their job easier.

As Thepnr pointed out, the way to deal with them, is

1. Never address them directly or by name, even if they address you directly.

2. If you do wish to clarify a lie by a troll, then do so, but again, do not address it to them directly. This chokes trolls. Many will try to engage you in such situations by addressing your clarification comment directly and by name, but again, do not reply to them talk OVER them, and around them

3. Again, Never, ever address them directly or by name.

And, as proof of the pudding, it is EXACTLY what I have done on this site for several years now. I talk over trolls, as you might an annoying child. Even when they try to engage me by saying things like ‘ Robert L, it is obvious your comment is about me’, I still do not engage. I merely re-state my original clarification point, using different wording.

I do understand their may be a kind of intellectual jousting to some of this, but it is counterproductive. They will NEVER be convinced by your arguments, no matter how clear or well referenced. Their job is to disrupt, and if that means arguing black is white, then that is exactly what they will do.

Let’s use our resources and talents in making the case for independence, not pointlessly arguing with thread disruptors.

Thepnr

If you reply to trolls then you play into their hands. They win.

Your a fucking idiot in other words. Ignore the trolls.

caz-m

The EU have no intention of having any trade deal with the UK completed within the two year time limit. It will mean rUK will be set adrift. This will trigger the WTO Tariff rules.

rUK will still be negotiating with the EU for many years to come.

Which makes Spring 2019 a likely date for IndyRef2.

There is also the possibility that rUK spit the dummie out and leave the talks early. That would put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Robert J. Sutherland

yesindyref2, Thepnr,

I also totally support the both of you re trolls.

It’s Stu and Wingers who should be setting the agenda, not posters whose sole purpose is to divert and distract.

FairFerfochen

Well what to make of today.
I could be talking sh1te here but…
The oil story feels too convoluted, like a rUK punt to get the English populace onside, as justification for either shutting down Holyrood or triggering an ultra hard Brexit.
Woudn’t be surprised if the A50 letter ends the EU union as of Wednesday with no negotiations, no deals. Brexit means Brexit.
Where would Scotland be if this happened?
Could be why May was talking privately with Police Scotland, in case there’s trouble from the natives.
Where would this leave the scotref?
18-24 months would be out the window.
UDI would be the only option, enough likely to justify closing down Holyrood.

Rock

If the Scottish parliament votes by a majority to seek Westminster’s permission to hold a referendum, to me there is no doubt that Westminster will refuse.

Will the Scottish government dare to go ahead and hold a referendum WHEN IT WANTS TO?

“Nicola Sturgeon’s proposed timeframe for a new vote is between 19 months and 25 months.?”

If it does, it would be nothing less than the start of UDI.

If it is forced to accept Saint Theresa’s timetable, it will be nothing less than accepting that the Scottish people are not “sovereign”.

Judgement day is near, unless there is another terrorist attack in London.

Arabs for Independence

I agree wholeheartedly with thepnr and yesindyref2. Just ignore the fckers

heedtracker

Bob Mack says:
27 March, 2017 at 8:07 pm
My neighbour tells me Alex Salmond is on a special Question Time edition tonight all about Brexit. Should be good. On at 8.30 apparently.

Its not great. Lots of rhetoric about good deals and that’s it really. The UKIP lady with the weird mouth is quite funny though and the audience like her too.

A rousing “We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when…” would bring the house down. Ah the English.

Robert Louis

Debate on TV,

Dimbleby: Yes, you sir, you with the union jack tie, what’s your point.

Dearie me.

caz-m

Thepnr

Wings has changed since the last time I used it.

It is infiltrated with establishment trolls. They are planted on here to upset the flow of positive information that you would normally find on Wings.

The same person will have many different names on here.

I have a fair idea who is behind a lot of these names.

If you watch to see who is replying and encouraging the conversation to continue, then that will give you an idea of who I am talking about.

As you say Thepnr, the best policy should be to COMPLETELY ignore their posts.

Mike

Here is a prediction in my capacity as a pro unionist 5th column disruptive influence.

Alex Salmond is going to get ambushed when question time turns to Scottish Indy and the Indyref because he’s on his own within a panel of 6 plus Dimbleby and a hostile audience.
And he will get ambushed on his arguments he made regarding trading under WTO rules as they will state an Indy Scotland will have to do the same with an rUK.

Watch and see.

lumilumi

What a broken record… for those of us who remember vinyls getting stuck on a groove and repeating the same thing over and over again. CDs, of course, if they got stuck, just went dn-dn-dn-dn-tsik-tsik-tsik. MP3s more like d-d-d [crash].

In a way, I’m tempted to think Westminster repeats these things because nothing’s changed in the 40 years since the McCrone report. Scotland and its oil subsidises the rest of the UK then and now. It’s not even about yearly revenue from oil – it varies because, as we’ve heard all too many times, oil prices are volatile – but it’s an undeniable natural resource that underpins the economy and a state’s credibility and confidence in the state in the international financial markets.

No wonder the UK don’t want to lose Scotland’s assets (oil but also huge renewable energy potential and other things like food and drink, gaming and biotech research and innovations, tourism, “country brand” etc. etc.) because it leaves them very exposed.

All they’ve got is the London City casino banking and innovative jams. Depending how Brexit shapes up, some of the more prudent banking might move to Frankfurt, Dublin, even Edinburgh if Scotland is independent. London will be left with the toxic kind of banking (and the English and Welsh taxpayers left to foot the bill when it all goes wrong again – and it will.)

Scotland really needs to get out from the über-capitalist rUK to preserve some national values like the idea of common weal. You know, you can be a capitalist, an entrepreneur, and still believe in the common weal. Many, many companies, big and small, in my country gladly (or even gridgingly) pay their corporate tax because they know it means better infrastructure and better educated future workers. They’re playing the long game, not quartal-driven casino capitalism. Not greedy for immediate profit and killing the goose that lays the golden egg.

I’m all for regulated capitalism, the problem is that über-capitalists think anything less than their laissez-faire is “wrong” or “socialist” or whatever. They wouldn’t know a true socialist from a moderate righ-winger, all “socialists” for them.

With Brexit, UK workers will lose the protection of EU regulation, so terms and conditions of work will get even worse than they are now. Rich get richer, poor get poorer, and the people in the middle also slide down.

Immigrants (instead of the Tory party) have been blamed for the worsening conditions for ordinary workers. Immigrants are, of course, always blamed by Trump, Farage, the present WM government. Is that a fascist full house?

I think all the ordinary workers who thought getting rid of the EU and “the foreigners” would improve their life will be sorely dissapointed. Deindustrialisation and labour flight to emerging countries is such a complex thing it doesn’t make good soundbites.

Considering the way the global world is going, rUK should be looking outward with their innovative jams. Scotland should look outward with their better jams, democracy, whisky, oil, renewable energy, bejaesus beautiful scenery, sexy men in kilts, right to roam… Scotland’s generally positive national brand internationally. “The Brits who aren’t dicks like the English,” is an accurate international description.

About a century ago, my country didn’t have such a strong “national brand”, we were just a poor backwater in the northeastern edge of Europe. No oil, no any apparent wealth besides hard-working and increasingly well-educated people. The most western and industrialised part of the Russian Empire, though, with our own parliament (fully representative and franchised since 1906, 11 years before our independence – a distant relative of mine was one of the batch of first female MPs in the world) and our own currency (since 1860s) but still tied to the Russian Empire and the Czar. Then we decided WE wanted to be in charge of OUR country. Lenin (probably too busy with the Russian revolution) signed our independence declaration on 6 December 1917 = acknowledged Finnish independence, which made it easy for other countries to acknowledge our independence.

We then had a bad civil war in 1918. The Reds (=lefty) against the Whites (=righty). The Whites “won” but our fledgling democracy was very divided and volatile until 1939. When Soviet Russia tried to invade our country everybody, red, white, doesn’t matter, fought for our independence. Our Finnish “sisu” and the mothers’ and sisters’ woolen socks and mittens helped to defeat the Soviet army, unprepared for a really cold winter. The Finns even skiied better because the Soviets dispatched southerners to the northern front. Finns who met Soviet POWs, like my grandmother, remarked that they were wearing cotton. Later on,during the “Continuation War”, Russian POWs worked at my grandparents’ farm (while my grandad was at the front.) My gran gave the poor POW’s proper woolen undergarments and proper wool socks and mittens. She hated the “Russkies” but these were just poor, freezing humans who helped to plogh and plant fields while her husband was away at war. She naturally provided good, strong food to the people working the fields, as she ever did.

My grandparents rarely talked about the war, grandpa’s experiences at the front, curiously missing, just a glimpse or two. I’ve learned more from grandma’s “homefront” experiences.

All the others might be OK, like “employing” Soviet POWs to bring in the harvest… Seeing “the enemies” as just ordinary people like yourselves. That’s what they’ve taught their sons and all their grandchildren. We’re all people.

Rock

Thepnr,

“@Robert Peffers

You know something Robert you post a lot of stuff that people may like. You also tend to attack anyone who doesn’t have exactly the same view as you. Why?

Give it a rest Robert, sure give us your opinion but tell me once more that “Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid.”

Then you will also be ignored. You should STOP being disrespectful to other posters. Give me your opinion by all means but stop telling me that mine is shite. OK.”

You (and others) finally realising what I have been pointing out for a long time?

Al Dossary

Trolls you say?

Well I guess there are a couple of suspicious dwellers from below the bridge that I scroll past automatically these days.

Unfortunately that means I also scroll past some of the replies to the bridge dwellers, but my logic tells me that as I had no interest in the troll, then why should I care about the reply to the troll.

Effijy

Channel 4 News was another disgrace tonight.
They should play Land of Hope and Glory as their theme tune

It seems to them that May has put our First Minister in her place???

They went on to interview a Labour Minister and UKIP spokesperson, but wouldn’t let them get a sentence out as they obviously weren’t True Blue Tories.

Pathetic but very scary to see the complete blanket of UK Media exists only to provide propaganda to the masses.

caz-m

Re Dimblebum debate.

Why no representation from Wales and Northern Ireland?

Is it because Brexit is an “English thing”.

Robert Peffers

@Thepnr says: 27 March, 2017 at 8:15 pm:

“You know something Robert you post a lot of stuff that people may like. You also tend to attack anyone who doesn’t have exactly the same view as you. Why?”

Strange accusation and a strange conclusion, Thepnr.

The strange accusation is that I, attack people who do not agree with me. Seems you think that if I find that someone differs in their opinions from my opinions that I’m attacking them if I continue to hold to my views.

That, Thepnr is what is called debate and, on a mainly political forum is a healthy way to conduct debate.

If you refer to the accusation the you were being foolish by overstepping the mark by attempting to tell people who they could or could not reply to on someone else’s blog I stand by my accusation it was a foolish thing to do.

Far as I know, and the Revs statements to the effect that only he will moderate his blog bears out my belief that you do not have his permission to attempt telling others who they may respond to.

“Give it a rest Robert, sure give us your opinion but tell me once more that “Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid.”
Then you will also be ignored. You should STOP being disrespectful to other posters.”

To ignore me IS your right – feel free to do just that.

“Give me your opinion by all means but stop telling me that mine is shite. OK.”

I didn’t say your opinion was, “Shite”, I said telling others who they they should respond to on another person’s blog was foolish. Are you claiming either you have that right or claiming it was not foolish?

Thepnr, I have been making the point for quite some time that neither, Westminster, May or anyone else can prevent the SG from holding a referendum on any subject and at any time the SG chooses.

I do not just do that but have explained why not. After your post about not replying to trolls, I though, rightly or wrongly, you may have been taking a swipe at me among others. This because I chose to make the point to what I also considered to be a Troll and deliberately was using that reply to make the point, yet again, that Westminster does not have the powers to prevent a Scottish referendum.

I then went and did some more research to get a cite to the proof that my response to the suspected troll, (but a response aimed at any readers of wings), was verifiable and was contained in the Scotland Act 1998 and used that information to show there were sometimes good reason to reply to suspected trolls.

So, please, if you think I’m making unwarranted attack upon you for no other reason that your views differ from mine, then scroll on past my posts but please do not attempt to dictate to others who they may respond to. Far as I know there are no moderators appointed to police Wings.

jfngw

Looks like the British broadcast media have now had their orders, get behind Brexit and ensure the Scots are kept in their place. There is next to no dissenting voices in this media, who now refer to May in almost reverential terms.

Noticed the BBC now refer to meetings as between ‘the Prime Minister and Ms Sturgeon’, the Scots First Minister no longer deserves her title.

The Rough Bounds.

Anybody else notice how often Scotland’s First Minister isn’t given her proper title on Radio Scotland but is referred to on the vast majority of occasions as plain ‘Nicola Sturgeon’, while Theresa May is almost always referred to as ‘The Prime Minister’?

Robert Peffers

@ronnie anderson says: 27 March, 2017 at 8:19 pm:

“No discussion forum needs Trolls, this site is to important to put up with Trolls disrupting threads , by your responses your encouraging them to the point that you yourself are subjected to the abuse & Wingers jump in in support of a respected Winger as is Thepnr & your comment on him.”

I’m not going to make a further reply to that, Ronnie, for I may say something I might regret.

At the moment I’m inclined to just leave Wings and let those who wish to moderate my posts get on with it. If you imagine that preaching to each other is going to gain any converts to independence you are flogging a dead horse.

Far as I’m aware the only one who moderates Wings id The Rev Stu and seems to me he has no plans to stifle open debate.

heedtracker

caz-m says:
27 March, 2017 at 9:28 pm
Re Dimblebum debate.

Why no representation from Wales and Northern Ireland?

Is it because Brexit is an “English thing”.

Or why is a UKIPer in there on the show, with zero MP’s?

Macca73

So we’re heading for a hardline brexit and to hell with all those component nations who voted to stay. The “Access” to the single market depends on one thing. The EU GIVING it. Scotland demanded that it’s position remain within the EU single market which wasn’t a leave and then try to rejoin.

To make it clear to these Tory muppets. The EU won’t negotiate with you, they have taken the view that you left .. you chose to now F**k O** and let us get on with it.

When Wednesday comes round and the process starts … you’ll soon learn that. If you convey that way to the people that “Oh there being bad to us .. look at the Evil EU” you’ll find yourself as a very small fish in a huge pond. The game is up.

Macca73

Just to add to that. I wish that SNP party members would tell the BBC to do one every time they come calling. Let them get on with it.

They (England and Wales) are going to be the one on the stairs at the party with no mates at this rate .. We need to leave to join the fun in the kitchen!!

Ann

Cheesed off with all the stage management and undermining of our democratically elected parliament and total disrespect shown to Nicola.

I am totally dumfounded that they are getting off with it and no external bodies are getting involved and bringing them to heel.

Hard neck complaining about media control in Russia, China etc. When they are no better.

gus1940

Down the line the train came puffing:-

Salmond,Clegg & Starmer TEN – Davis,Evans & Philips NOTHING.

gus1940

Just watching Melanie Philips talking a load of crap about Indy and Indyref2 when the camera cut to Eck with the expression on is face of a tiger just waiting to pounce.

He has now pounced – job done.

Socrates MacSporran

I enjoyed Lumilumi’s post at 9.16pm, very informative.

In particular her tale of her gran employing Soviet POWs in her fields struck a chord.

In a past life I worked on a local opencast coal site, where one of the other workers was a German POW who stayed on in Ayrshire.

Hienrich had some great stories – of having a motor bike and a petrol allowance, so he could get from Butlins at Ayr (a war-time pow camp) to the hill farm where he worked. Of the “friendliness” of the farmer’s daughters towards a poor German guy, a long way from home!!!

He told us of how, at the end of the war, he was repatriated to his home in Berlin, only, his house wasn’t there.

“Heinrich goat back oan train, back tae Ayrshire – at least, there he had roof ower his heid”, he said in his Ayrshire/German accent.

Heinrich’s grand-children are still here, living in my village, aye, Scotland has been welcoming European immigrants for a while, and in many different ways.

Ian Brotherhood

@Robert Peffers –

Robert, can you honestly not see why Thepnr and Ronnie are hacked off with your comments?

I made exactly the same point as Ronnie, late last night, and you responded it to it as though it was directed at you personally. It wasn’t. It was an honest, albeit brief report on what I heard being discussed by fellow Yessers in Glasgow yesterday.

We all acknowledge your experience and expertise on a broad range of subjects, but please, please understand that many of us here are no spring-chickens either, we are totally committed to this cause, and don’t deserve to have our wrists slapped in a public forum as if we’re toddlers playing with matches.

Ken500

@ Mr Petters

Please don’t leave.

It is surprising how many troll deniers become trolls themselves.

Rev Stu monitor the site and deletes and bans, as is his right. He is a very busy person, so gets around to it when he can.

BBC is still such tripe. Wait until A50 goes in they are going to get such a shock. Wsit for the howls of surprise.

Good to see Alex putting them right. How does he have the patience to put up with it?

The latest Unionist claim, ‘Brexit is nothing to do with migration’. A load of tripe. It had everything to do with the Tories fighting like rats in a sack to be PM. The poison chalice. Melanie Philips could be called out on Twitter. Treading very carefully.

HandandShrimp

Anybody else notice how often Scotland’s First Minister isn’t given her proper title on Radio Scotland but is referred to on the vast majority of occasions as plain ‘Nicola Sturgeon’, while Theresa May is almost always referred to as ‘The Prime Minister’?

RB

It could be because we all know who Nicola is but they have to remind people who May is.

lumilumi

Totally O/T.

I will be coming to Scotland this coming summer!! Success (!!!) at talking to the boat owner to sail in Scotland… Yasss!!!

It’s a total success of nagging my rich brother for years. He’s got a 38 foot sailboat and always wants crew. I’ve been telling him I’ll come and crew if he ever gets his boat arse to Scotland.

OK, last summer started with the boat wintering in Kirknes (the most easterly place in nortern Norway) and I crewed when we were going “over the top” in Norway. 71’11” north, on the Barents Sea was an occassion for a drink. The cute fat little puffins trying to fly from our boat, poor buggers. Aaah, I love puffins flap flip flaapy-flaaap…

David anderson

During the referendum campaign at those times when it seemed the SNP had no answer to the opposition claims and accusations, there were many who would proclaim that Alex had something up his sleeve and there was some grand SNP plan etc etc. I am seeing some of the same comments now and to be honest it wasn’t really true then and I am thinking at this current juncture the SNP are getting their arse handed to them on a plate. Maybe I am wrong but that’s how it seems to me and I don’t like it one little bit.

Liz g

Anybody else catch the new narritive—They want to keep us— laments David Davis.
Wonder if that’s to explain their negotiation difficulties or to dilute us claiming it about Scotland!

Robert Louis

You know somebody in another place yesterday raised a simple question, just why are we leaving the EU? All the things that voters were promised have turned out to be a pack of lies. So, why proceed? Their does not appear to be anything to gain.

It is an important question, why are we leaving the EU?

It makes no sense, and I find it hard to believe just how much people in England have been taken for complete suckers. Longer term, once Scotland is independent within the EU and England is outside the EU, I think it likely the massed people of England will one day rise up against both Labour and Tory MP’s for leading them into a Brexit economic disaster.

Of course by then, the likes of Boris the clown ,Theresa May and Michael Gove (all millionaires) will have left the country, just like their inspiration, Nigel Farage who now works in the USA. They can all escape, it is the ordinary working folk who will be left with the mess.

One_Scot

David anderson, relax, it’s all under control.

Dave McEwan Hill

David anderson at 10.26

Utter rubbish. That’s why our recent poll rating was 54%?

manandboy

Theresa May and her PR team at No. 10 attempted a stunt today, the object of which was to humiliate Nicola. The net effect however, was to reveal Theresa May as foolish, lacking any class and not having a clue.
Mrs May seems to think that the voters can’t work out what she is up to, but it is really rather obvious. I am tempted to think that Theresa May was selected for this job as a short term PM stand-in until after the Brexit Mess.

Robert J. Sutherland

David anderson @ 10:27:

I am thinking at this current juncture the SNP are getting their arse handed to them on a plate.

You think, Davie? I’m not sure why.

But just wait a day or so until the Brexit negotiations start, then you’ll see a real serving of cul de conne, courtesy of M. Barnier & Cie.

Breeks

Keep waiting for the Tweet or newsflash to tell me what the Theresa May’s visit was all about. Was it just a cunning plan to get Nicola out the office so James Bond could plant a bug behind the mirror in Bute House?

Going to visit East Kilbridge and forcing people to clap her speech unless they want sent to work in a salt mine for the rest of their miserable lives, and we’ll have none of your Scottish Government facilities by the way, oh no. We know what you’re like with your wee blue flag ambushes, tartan shoes and bear traps under the carpets and stuff. A neutral Travelodge will do just fine…as long as it’s got a back exit….

All very bizarre… It’s almost as if Theresa May is running around frantically doing “things” to mask the simple truth that she is hopelessly out of her depth and doesn’t know what to do.

I feel a quote from MGM’s Battle of Britain coming on… “It’s unforgivable. I lost my temper. And the maddening thing is that he’s (she) is right. We’re on our own. We’ve been playing for time. And it’s running out!…

Robert Louis

David Anderson at 1027pm,

I share your frustration. I do think today was the last straw, and the First Minister should no longer take such a diplomatic approach to Westminster. They have shown zero respect for her today, so she should do likewise. All theresa May did was waste the First Minister’s time today, and showed zero respect.

Of course let’s not forget, the vote in Parliament tomorrow, means that things move forward. If as expected, a section 30 is refused, then the SNP should merely proceed as planned with a referendum.

It really is time to stop playing ball with Westminster, even to the point of removing our MP’s, and ending the union and calling an election. It really is now getting to that point.

heedtracker

Beeb gimps put so much work into telling us how unpopular Merkel is, all because of her terrible refugee decisions and taking in a million Syrians, real world.

link to thelocal.de

No doubt all to be discussed on BBC vote tory Ligger Neil show tomorrow.

I love it when neo fascists make the the world a better place, trying to cause as much harm as possible, like bringing the EU closer together.

Ian Brotherhood

To see David Davis, on QT, chortling with Dimbleby about his ‘Yes Minister’ anecdote tells us all we need to know about the attitude of these Tory bastards.

The only sure thing about ‘Brexit’, so far as they’re concerned, is that they’ll emerge more powerful – no other ‘detail’ is important.

David anderson

@dave mcEwan I don’t mean in terms of support if that is what you think, I am referring to the management of the political maneuvering, combating a pro union media, in fact everything since Nicola said we were going for another referendum, that day I punched the air, since then I just feel the upper hand has been with the Tories in both England and Scotland. I hope I am wrong. However, there was no grand plan last time regardless of how well we done and how hard we tried. Not absolute rubbish, just another opinion in the mix.

@robert I wait and hope for the tide as I perceive it to turn. But as the EU won’t start to consider things until April it’ll be more than a 12hour thumb twiddle. Hopefully events will go in our favour, in that more will be convinced a new referendum is needed and pressure will build for an agreement to be made.

Liz g

OT…but not sorry !
Robert Peffers….
Not my business and you needn’t answer (of course you needn’t)
But as my Constutional go to guy, I do care,so!!!

Are you keeping ok Robert?
While you have always been tenacious,you were never usally short with anyone….Even to those who would try your patience,and you shamelessly used to get your point across you normally were polite towards.

I have disagreed with you a few times and have always found you very civil to me so please don’t think I am having a go.

It’s just you seemed a bit more nippy this last wee while and it’s so not like you…..It has made me wonder?
So I hope you don’t mind my asking….X

schrodingers cat

Robert Peffers says:
27 March, 2017 at 7:40 pm
@Thepnr says: 27 March, 2017 at 5:06 pm:
“O/T I want to mention disruption to threads and why it’s bad.
—————————–
peffers
Oh! For the Heaven’s sake stop being so bloody stupid.Secondly you probably wouldn’t recognise a real Troll if it was chewing on your ear.
——————————
innovative and quality, well thought out comments bob

btw I like trolls, they generate debate, thats why i prefer btl sections on national newspapers. cut and thrust etc, without them, wos degenerates in to an echo chamber and ends up sounding like the fucking waltons.

caz-m

Ian brotherhood.

As I mentioned above, Wings has been infiltrated by Establishment plants.

They are quite easy to identify. just follow the troll replies.

You will probably find that the Troll, with his many names, is replying to himself.

jfngw