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Fool you twice, shame on you

Posted on August 18, 2014 by

Perhaps the most notorious injustice ever committed by the UK government against Scotland (with the possible exception of the infamous “40% rule” in the 1979 devolution referendum in which the dead were counted as No votes) was the suppression for 30 years of the McCrone Report, which revealed how wealthy an independent Scotland would have been after the discovery of oil in the North Sea.


Successive Labour and Conservative governments at Westminster frantically fought to deceive Scots over the value of the bounty for decades. And now, on the eve of another referendum, it looks like they’re about to try it again.





The No campaign has made a great deal out of last year’s abnormally low tax receipts from oil – which were largely due to record levels of investment being made by oil companies and offset against tax – in order to make Scotland’s future financial prospects look worse than they really are.

It’s remarkably reminiscent of how Unionist politicians told Scots in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s that the oil would run out in just a few years and wasn’t anything to get excited about. Inconveniently, however, the reasons for 2013’s record investment have begun to leak out before the referendum, and the news is dramatic.

Exploration projects have recently revealed some of the biggest and most potentially lucrative finds in the North Sea’s history. The Clair Ridge and Bentley fields look set to provide hundreds of millions, or even billions, of barrels. Other areas – including ones previously blocked by the UK government to avoid interfering with the operation of Trident nuclear submarines – also offer promising returns.


Once again, Westminster has desperately tried to talk down the significance of the finds, as noted by the Investors’ Chronicle last month:

We think that Westminster has been deliberately downplaying the potential of the UK Continental Shelf (UKCS) ahead of September’s referendum on Scottish independence.

The Department of Energy has certainly been far more subdued than it was at the time of the February publication of Sir Ian Wood’s preliminary findings on the future of offshore oil & gas in the UK.

According to the report, the UK economy could generate £200bn over the next 20 years through the recovery of only 3-4bn barrels of North Sea oil and gas.Many analysts believe that the potential is much greater.

When highly respected oil-industry figure Professor Sir Donald Mackay – a former economic adviser to the Secretary of State for Scotland for over 25 years – told the Sunday Times in July that the UK government’s figures for future oil revenues were wildly understated, not a single other newspaper picked up the story.

But the recent revelations are simply too big (and too many) to conceal. Oil rig workers have been telling their families of the magnitude of the finds as they get sent home on full pay to await the start of operations. Facilities in Shetland are so overburdened with new workers they’re having to be accommodated in huge floating hotels. And even the UK media can’t keep a secret that size.

“Scotland’s oil and gas revenues could be up to six times higher than those forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), according to an independent report which Alex Salmond, the first minister, said ‘blows another huge hole in the credibility’ of the London-based fiscal watchdog.

N-56, an apolitical economic think tank, has published an analysis of Scotland’s future oil and gas revenues which suggests they could be worth £365bn by 2040. The OBR has forecast a more conservative figure of £57bn.

The report, which draws on oil production forecasts and barrel prices by Oil & Gas UK, the industry body, and the findings of a recent review by oil tycoon Sir Ian Wood into maximising North Sea oil revenues, states that recoverable oil and gas reserves could range from 15bn to 24bn barrels.

It claims that Scotland’s public finances could be comfortably in surplus by as much as 7% of GDP by 2020 – more than £12bn per annum – with surpluses of £9bn to £11bn a year in the 2020s and £5bn a year in the 2030s.

The report calculates that an oil fund, assuming a modest 3.2% real interest rate, could grow to more than £300bn – in today’s prices – by the end of the 2030s.”

Last year Alistair Darling bizarrely suggested that the oil might run out as soon as January 2017. And as recently as this month, the Secretary of State for Portsmouth was attempting to hold the line by rubbishing as a mad nationalist conspiracy theory the idea that a new oil bonanza was just over the horizon.

It seems unlikely to be a tenable position for the next four weeks. It remains to be seen whether the people of Scotland will swallow the same lie twice, and once again vote to hand an almost unimaginable amount of Scottish wealth over to London and trust that it will be spent wisely.

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  1. 18 08 14 13:14

    Fool you twice, shame on you | Scottish Independence News

  2. 20 08 14 00:16

    Scotland's unreconcilable differences » Paul BrucePaul Bruce

185 to “Fool you twice, shame on you”

  1. heedtracker says:

    So we give you our hard earned taxes and our country’s incredible natural resources. Then you give us back what you think we deserve and use Scotland as the teamGB nuke missile dump. Correct and it’s why we’re Bettertogether and we let you punch things above your weight, so vote no thanks Scotland.

  2. desimond says:

    Oil…rather than there will be blood, there will be a reckoning!

  3. Hewitt83 says:

    I really hope this is the Ace up the sleeve we’ve all been waiting for.

  4. PeeGee says:

    There’s a very good word that describes people who commit treason. Working to destroy your own (so they claim) country.

    No use crying over spilled Quislings. Traitors every single one of them. Irrefutable evidence of their hatred for Scotland and contempt for the Caledonian untermench and still we have morons voting for them because they, “stand up for Scotland”.

  5. Wp says:

    This is the deal ; ” You give us the oil, and we give you back foodbanks and child poverty”
    And there are Scottish people among us who like this deal, and will vote for more of it.

  6. Footsoldier says:

    Hope Salmond brings this out in the BBC Scotland debate next Monday.

  7. scunnered says:

    this is going to go down as the biggest con in history…in years to come our kids and every other country is going to be saying WTF were you lot thinking about

  8. Katherine hamilton says:

    Alex Salmond really must nail this next Monday night. This could be the ultimate betrayal of our children and grandchildren if we don’t persuade this generation to vote yes for them,not for us, for them.
    I think my heart might break if it’s a no.

  9. Steve Bowers says:

    Hewitt83….. we don’t need an ace, we have the people, keep the faith and keep talking to people, we’re winning it one conversation at a time.

  10. Calum Craig says:

    As a native of Ayr, the one that really grates is the block in the 80s in the Clyde. Because Trident is parked up the road!! There’s very little industry/ employment in the town these days, it could have been so different…

  11. Croompenstein says:

    I thought the FM was going to be making an announcement on these oil finds. If we get a no vote after this information is verified then we’ll deserve all we get I’m afraid

  12. Ghengis D'Midgies says:

    Been watching BBC 24 today (yuk) and they had one line saying something like: “Independent think tank says oil and gas revenues could be 6 times higher” That was shortly after one of their #indyref reports today lingering on a large group of uKOK campaigners in the sun somewhere. There was no corresponding footage of YES voters in the sun funnily enough and there’s been no report so far expanding on the oil and gas one liner. I guess they are trying to pretend that’s balanced and impartial broadcasting.

  13. Nigel says:

    The true value of Scotland’s oil wealth and the long term viability of reserves is getting out. It’s no longer one of the main issues I hear when campaigning or as a reason for voting no. I am no longer being told that oil is running out…that Scotland is stuffed without it etc. etc. etc.

    The real issue is the Scottish NHS, it seems. Also, many folk are now showing increasing concern at the nastiness and negativity of the no campaign. Oil is not so far up the agenda as it once was.

  14. scunnered says:

    totally agree katherine…it is the ultimate betrayal by people who are too lazy to do a bit of research or quite happy they have got a few bob to last them into retirement and are too selfish to see the big picture…just wish they would grow a set for there childrens sake

  15. Jim Duthie says:

    Lighten up folks. We will not be conned again – believe in yer ain fowk. We are already winning this and by polling day we’ll have at least 2/3rds saying yes (voterigging notwithstanding).

  16. Cumoangerraff says:

    I listened with interest to GMS this morning, as the N-56 report was in the headlines. A spokesman from N-56 was given a few sentences to talk about his report, followed by some economist who was given plenty of time and umpteen leading questions to debunk the report. Disgraceful, but predictable.

  17. Not only the WMD on the Clyde but 7 rotting de-commissioned nuclear submarines in Rosyth Dockyard. Thats what we are given in Scotland while Thatcher used the oil revenues to pay for unemployment.
    Oh and something else Hestletine let slip a few years ago on Question Time was Thatcher was forced into a u-turn over the Falklands. Thatcher had come to an arrangement with General Galtieri over the Falklands (gave them to Argentine) until senior Tories forced her into a u-turn.
    This is the lies you get from UK Gov’s of whatever colour, the real Tories, the tories that used to be the Labour party the Lib Dems, vote YES and build a better future for Scotland where politicians will serve us not rule us.

  18. muttley79 says:

    Why do a significant section of the people of Scotland continue to trust unionist politicians, after all their lies and deceit down through the decades? They have been lying for decades about oil. Time to vote Yes.

  19. Macart says:

    Well who knew?

    Pretty much as expected and that’s the point it was expected and we have been here before. Superbly titled Stu, ‘Fool you twice, shame on you’.

    Make no mistake, there are only two issues foremost in the Westminster establishment mindset. Oil and Trident. They frankly couldn’t give a shit about flags or social cohesion, history or the care of the electorate. These are just tools to manipulate the electorate. Buzz words and cheap jingoism which frankly mean sweet fuck all. These people have no country.

    Money and power is their be all and end all.

    Scotland is literally sitting on top of an extremely secure fiscal future. Choice time – Do we trust those who have been managing this resource for the past forty years or do we change up to those who actually care how it is managed? By that I mean ourselves.

  20. galamcennalath says:

    It surprises me that so much Yes-positive stuff about oil is being allowed into the media. Just at the right moment too!

    In the next four weeks the talk in the steamy is likely to be oil, NHS, perhaps Trident, perhaps more … And the NaeSayers are going to find it impossible to counter.

    BT et al have fired off most of their Fear topics. Even CU Plan A/B is running out of steam.

    Let’s hope Yes control the agenda and make the running until the 18th.

    I’m getting optimistic feelings!

  21. Nana Smith says:

    My father who passed away 3yrs ago always believed Westminster were lying to us and not just about oil.

    He had no trust in Scottish mps who went off to London as he saw just how quickly their ‘good intentions’ were tossed aside.

    I dearly wish he was alive at this time, I know he would be cheering Yes all the way to the finish line.

  22. crisiscult says:

    hmmm, if this can’t be kept out of average people’s homes i.e. off the prime time news slots and rush hour radio slots, then maybe the new angle can be to accuse Scots of being greedy and selfish, running away with the oil: moral corruption and betrayal. I guess it could work on some people, although if the whole thing wasn’t about money, generally speaking, maybe BT, the UK Gov, and the media shouldn’t have made it constantly about money over the last 2 years and more. Love bombing and working on massive guaranteed changes to the constitution of the UK could have been done instead. I suspect a few weeks before the referendum may not be enough time to turn the ship though.

  23. allan sayers says:

    just look how ayr prestwick troon irvine ardrossan saltcoats and largs would have benefitted over theyears ifoil exploration was allowed in the firth of clyde.

    most are a shadow of their former industrious selves

  24. Macart says:

    I suppose it also follows that if the OBRs figures are now being called into serious doubt that the projections if the IFS and the Treasury, who based their work on the OBRs figures are now fit only for pulping? 😉

  25. Black Douglas says:

    You can now also see the vision in the SG decision to take Prestwick airport in to public ownership.

  26. Jim Thomson says:

    On GMS this morning there was segment on the increased oil reserves. Starts at 1:36:40 into the iPlayer recording:

    The BBC managed to find a Tony McKay, probably the only oil analyst who thinks there’s nothing worthwhile left and it’s too late to start an oil fund, to provide expert opinion. Jeez.

  27. James McIntosh says:

    I’m very happy with the wonderful news from Clair and Benteley fields but am extremely worried about the postal votes.

    If we don’t trust them to tell us the truth about our oil how can we be so blaise about 700,000 postal votes? Electoral Commision? Don’t make me laugh. We all need to make this an issue too so that the spotlight can be turned on these crooks

  28. Gillie says:

    A New Oil Bonanza is on its way, but will Scotland finally profit from it or allow the Treasury to fritter it all away again?

  29. kininvie says:

    Ah, you’ve missed the added significance of the Lancaster flow test in June, which I wrote about here:

  30. Edward says:

    allan sayers
    I may have mentioned on another thread
    but think about Prestwick airport and its strategic position in relation to Firth of Clyde oil exploration

    Ideally suited for helicopter support flights as well as cargo flight bringing in engineering equipment for oil engineering bases that could also be set up at Prestwick……

  31. heedtracker says:

    but will Scotland finally profit from it or allow the Treasury to fritter it all away again?

    Don’t stop thinking about tomorrow, yesterday’s gone, yesterday’s gone. Its the ad before

    Richest 20% have 60% of all teamGB wealth.

  32. bookie from hell says:

    bfh–this is why we need to vote YES

    Dozens of NHS patients have been left with damage to their eyes, including partial loss of sight, after undergoing routine cataract operations which had been outsourced to a private provider.

    A hospital in Somerset is now facing a slew of legal claims from patients who say they were left with problems including blurred vision, pain and swelling after undergoing cataract removal operations at a unit run by Vanguard Healthcare, which operated on the hospital site.

    The scandal will raise serious questions about the Coalition Government’s plans to expand the role of private providers working in the NHS.

  33. Alan McHarg says:

    Do you think for a minute that if the oil was under Westminster that they would share it with a foreign country? Not a hope in hell! This is our oil, our resource, our future, our destiny…don’t be made to feel ashamed…seize the moment for the future prosperity of your country and family. Vote YES with pride!

  34. heedtracker says:

    So vote NO or else Graun says, 20% richest teamGBers have 60% of teamGB wealth and where is the wealth distributed out of the Scotchland region to exactly?

    I say.

  35. laukat says:

    @Jim Thomson

    I heard that segment on GMS this morning and couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It was the most one-sided unchallenged piece of propaganda on oil that I’ve heard. I wondered why the BBC had wanted to interview him then I read this

    You have to admire the researchers at BBC, they can always find what they are looking for!

  36. Les Wilson says:

    Gillie says:
    18 August, 2014 at 1:43 pm
    A New Oil Bonanza is on its way, but will Scotland finally profit from it or allow the Treasury to fritter it all away again?

    Re phrase that, STEAL it all away again!

  37. HandandShrimp says:

    The Beeb had an oil economist on the radio this morning who was a real wet blanket (would the Beeb invite any other?) and even he said that oil reserves are around 60% of 24bn barrels… 7 times Darling’s figure.

    On the plus side Darling has conceded that Scotland could be a country, albeit a very unsuccessful one 🙂

    People like Davidson, Hood, Murphy Curran and Co you kind of expect to be negative but Darling has been a revelation. I wonder if this was the root of the antipathy between Darling and Brown. The latter must surely be overdue to relaunch his United with Labour thing again.

  38. Democracy Reborn says:

    “Fool me once…”:-

    18 years of Thatcherism
    Mass unemployment
    Decimation of Scotland’s industrial base
    Greed is good
    Rising inequality
    Poll Tax
    Not a penny of oil invested for the future

    “Fool me twice….”

    Neoliberalism from Tories & Labour
    Ever more rising inequality
    Privatisation of NHS
    Billions on Trident
    And still…not a penny of oil invested for the future

  39. glenfalloch says:

    My No voting neighbour’s son works in oil in Aberdeen. he says Shell’s ‘pre-emptively’ made 1600 people redundant, and that if Yes wins, more will follow. Can someone more in the know give me a counter-argument to this?

  40. heedtracker says:

    Maybe money just rolls south to England and the south of England in particular because of gravity. Interesting how Cornwall and the South West of England moan about poverty yet they look minted on here. Could be the grand old teamGB inequality farce after 3 Crash Gordon Labour terms in office.

    Mind you Tony Bliar’s worth a fortune and its apparently all down to his know how on extracting oil from one country and keeping the profits in another and where oh where did he learn how to do that?

    He is an official adviser to JP Morgan, the investment bank, and to Zurich International, the Swiss-based global insurance company. But he and his team also advise wealthy governments such as oil and gas-rich Kazakhstan, presided over by its autocratic ruler Nursultan Nazarbayev. That deal, worth millions of pounds, has attracted criticism

  41. Misteralz says:

    Not entirely true. They’re ditching 250 between now and the end of 2015, but loads have left already rather than be pushed. The actual figure will be much lower. I can’t help but think that it’s been an experiment in demoralisation. They introduced flexi-desking an a worse catering company as well.

  42. Al says:

    A bit O/T but, as we know, they are also lying to us when they say that the NHS is safe if we stay in the Union. Here’s the text of an email I received from 38 Degrees campaign group (though they also sent another email when they realised it shouldn’t have gone to folks in Scotland):

    “Dear Al

    Jeremy Hunt has changed the rules again. He’s bringing in funding cuts that could see some local GP surgeries closing their doors for good. 700,000 of us could lose our local GP. [1]

    As Hunt tries to relax this weekend, let’s make sure he feels the heat. We can build a huge petition to leave him in no doubt that these cuts are not ok and we’ll always be here to protect our NHS:


    The clock is ticking: some surgeries say they could close within a year. The government won’t want bad news stories sticking around in the run up to the election. If Jeremy Hunt feels another big battle brewing over the NHS, it might be enough to persuade him to stop the cuts.

    38 Degrees members have already taken on Jeremy Hunt and won before. We stopped his Hospital Closure Clause and we beat him in court twice when 38 Degrees members helped fund the legal case to save Lewisham hospital. [2]

    Please sign the petition to stop Jeremy Hunt’s dangerous plans in their tracks:

    As more surgeries are forced to shut, this could open the door for more GP surgeries to be run by large private firms on the cheap.

    Together, we can make a noise that Hunt can’t ignore. Can you sign the petition?

    Thanks for everything you do,
    Nat, Robin, Laura, Maddy and the 38 Degrees team”

  43. @Glenfalloch

    Apart from all the news items listed above by Stuart

    Norwegian oil services firm Aker Solutions has signed one of Scotland’s largest office leasing deals, as part of expansion plans in the UK.

    Under the contract, Aker will rent 335,000 sq ft of office space at Aberdeen International Business Park from developer Abstract (Cornwall) Ltd.

    Aker is leasing three interlinked buildings for an annual rent of £7.74m over 20 years. […]

    Aker Solutions is among the largest employers in Aberdeen with operations spread across six sites in the city.

    David Currie, regional head of Aker Solutions in the UK, said: “This move is a long-term investment for us and underlines our commitment to Aberdeen and our customers in the area. (BBC)

  44. ErinT says:

    Only a matter of time before news of this started piling up so high that it begun to spill over the media blockades. That six times larger figure is really interesting!

  45. bookie from hell says:


    just got polling card,thru post box

    Scottish Independence Referendum

    makes it now seem so real,labour mps must be aghast as these drops thru letterbox

    ( : > )

  46. Lesley-Anne says:

    I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with that statement BD. I know folks want the SG to start coming out and talking about all the oil around Scotland but for me it’s a case of, apologies for borrowing this from “Braveheart”, HOLD … HOLD … HOLD … 😛

    We all remember, or at least some of us older types remember, the s***e that was generated by Westminster in the 1970’s when oil started flowing. It will only last 10 years, blah de blah de blah! Then we found out about the McCrone Report and all hell broke loose. Well folks they, Westminster, are trying to do the old “let’s hide the TRUTH” trick again with all this NON talk about the oil. Unfortunately for them THIS time it aint working! 😉

    Last time THEY had the media and that was all that was available, THIS time they have the media, MSM and BBC, but WE have the internet. Westminster have not got a clue about how to use the internet. They are trying desperately to hide the facts about all the oil in Scottish waters by NOT admitting to anything in the media but we are getting the FACTS via the internet. What is even better is the fact that Westminster can NOT stop us from finding out via the internet about the oil. There is only ONE way to stop us finding out about our new oil fields and that is to shut down completely the whole internet in the U.K.

    Guess what folks. Westminster even thinks about shutting down the internet in the U.K. and we all have instant confirmation that they are trying to hide something from us and then all hell WILL erupt and we will definitely will have won on the 18th by a LANDSLIDE!

    So, in my naive opinion, Westminster are now so boxed into a crumbling wee corner that they have no where else to run to and they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t! 😛

  47. Les Wilson says:

    James McIntosh says:

    I agree James, that is probably our biggest worry on the lead up, hopefully not beyond.

  48. Tattie-bogle says:

    The yanks will be threatening to invade will be the next scare story a rogue state with vast amounts of oil and WMD’s

  49. Edward says:

    Love to know where he gets his ‘1600’ from

    Shell did announce 250 redundancies, all onshore and nothing to do with the referendum.

    Same story on Shells own website, which you will notice they are making redundancies in Houston (must be the uncertainty in the USA)

  50. Tattie-bogle says:


    Petrochemical company Ineos has bought a majority share in a licence for shale gas exploration and development – so-called fracking – in Scotland.
    The company said it had purchased a 51% share in an onshore oil and gas licence surrounding its refining and petrochemical complex at Grangemouth.
    The licence to “frack” covers 329 square kilometres of the Midland Valley in Scotland, where the British Geological Survey has estimated there are “modest” shale gas and oil resources.

  51. Tattie-bogle says:

    I have heard that too the Oil companies will not want to play ball with a Scottish Government
    However i’m pretty sure others will be queuing up if they play that game.
    surrender your licenses and close the door on your way out cheerio.

  52. Jim McIntosh says:

    @glenfalloch –

    According to the the BBC Shell only has 4,500 Staff and core contractors in Scotland.

    There was a major piece in the P&J earlier this month when they announced they were shedding 250 jobs this year. If they had ‘pre-emptively’ cut 25% of the workforce I think we would have heard about it.

  53. Kev says:

    It may have been mentioned in a few papers but it was completely ignored by the broadcast media, instead the BBC were very busy beating the drums of possible upcoming war in Iraq, almost in a desperate attempt to once again force “Britishness” down our throats… disgusting, absolutely disgusting.

  54. Mary Bruce says:

    Macart says: “Make no mistake, there are only two issues foremost in the Westminster establishment mindset. Oil and Trident.”

    Nah, if they cared that much about Trident they could offer us Devomax and be guaranteed to keep it. It’s just about the oil.

  55. X_Sticks says:

    glenfalloch says:

    “he says Shell’s ‘pre-emptively’ made 1600 people redundant, and that if Yes wins, more will follow.”

    Mrs X_Sticks works for Shell and as Edward says there are 250 jobs going in Aberdeen. There may be more redundancies globally which may amount to 1600, but I don’t think Scottish independence will be causing redundancies in Houston or Nigeria or Sakalin. The are no plans for any further divestment of people right now in Aberdeen and the 250 will move to other oil companies or the large contractors like Halliburton or Aker.

    Shell management have stated they are quite relaxed about indy. They don’t forsee it causing them any problems.

    Might be worth pointing out to your No voting neighbour’s son that Statoil will soon be opening their new North Sea HQ at Westhill. They expect to create 3500 jobs.

    Must be all that uncertainty that these large oil finds are causing.

  56. Malc says:

    Can anyone point me to data re breakdown of Yes v NO by region/area. Is there any such data available.

  57. heedtracker says:

    It’s not just one more giant UKOK con going down here, it’s the UK deregulated, bottom line only thing that counts teamGB bullshit, that really hits home. I lost a school friend in the Piper Alpha disaster and they never found his body. All of it down to running our oil and gas industry in dereged ways that Norway and Denmark wouldn’t even recognise.

    That guy that died on the Piper was 22 and he’s one of hundreds, maybe thousands of fatalities offshore Scotland, that are all down to government laissez-faire, let the market decide the price, the wages, skills, health and safety, all of it’s comes at a price no one in Westminster would pay themselves.

    Look at ancient helicopters that continually drop out in the North Sea killing everyone and yet nothing happens, no criminality or negligence or lack of investment, just grieving families and profit takers using the BBC to tidy up public opinion.

    No wonder the majority of Scots offshore oil workers are Yes.

  58. schrodinger's cat says:

    Shell have divested themselves of their entire northern field, Cormorant alpha, North cormorant, dunlin, Tern, Eider.
    They are also in the process of decomissioning the 4 brent platforms,
    they are no longer big players in the NS. Many of their staff are from overseas and will return there or move onto pastures new but the rest will be picked up by other companies coming in. No shortage of jobs for people with experience

  59. Mary Bruce says:

    Here’s an archive copy of the Financial Times article that said the oil industry is looking to create 39,000 jobs over the next few years, for tweeting and sharing:

  60. geeo says:

    A hyper-cynic (new phrase?)might suggest that there is a link between hiding oil reports (with help from a compliant media) from a time where there was possibly mass paedophilia in Westminster and the BBC.

    This hyper-cynic might use the perhaps inappropriate use of the phrase ‘you scratch my back and we will stroke your back’ in return for keeping Scots in the dark about its wealth ?

    Not my opinion of course, its that hyper-cynical guy i was talking about.


    No secrets were kept or let out the bag in the compilation of this post !

  61. Molly says:

    So oil/tax running out for Scotland bad?

    Oil/tax running out for Westminster good?

    How does that work asked a Scottish journalist never

  62. Macart says:

    @Mary Bruce

    Devo max was worse as an option as far as they were concerned. Remember the accepted definition is basically full fiscal autonomy. They’d have lost control of oil revenue anyway, with the added twist of still being required to defend the assets for little or no return. They were always going to take the gamble on the single question solution. 🙂

  63. JET JOCKEY says:

    Scotland has been ” taken to the cleaners” in many ways for a long time, not just since the discovery of oil. I heard a shareholder of a Canadian airline make that comment several years ago, he stated that when I queried why a 767 had to make the short hop from Manchester to Glasgow, the reason being it was £3000 pound more expensive to refuel at Glasgow than Manchester ” really”. He went on to comment how BAA, British Airport Authority had manipulated air travel to and from Scotland by the ownership of the main airports in Scotland , it was later deemed that owning 7 airports in the UK was a monopoly, they did own 4 in Scotland !!!Prestwick was a hub airport and should have continued in that role when the jet engine made air travel a lucrative business, but it was deemed the wrong side of the border ,look at Amsterdam airport, Prestwick could have handled a lot of North America and Canadain flights, it doesn’t make sense to fly east to Schipol and then fly back overhead for Toronto or Chicago!!!!

  64. Some posted that large sections of Scottish people are still believing the no sides lies can anyone prove this the only ones I hear saying this is the no side ,we have them on the run so do not be downhearted as general MacArthur said though the battalions of evil are mighty the battalions of good are mightier still ,we will won vote yes

  65. muttley79 says:


    That is one of the major reasons I want independence. I am sick living in a state that does not give a shit about its citizens, unless they are uber rich that is. We have to create a more caring, compassionate nation.

  66. X_Sticks says:

    Malc says:

    “Can anyone point me to data re breakdown of Yes v NO by region/area. Is there any such data available.”

    Probably only exists in the canvassing returns from Yes, RIC and BT.

    We’re hoping to use info from Yes to target the WBB at the DKs, but no idea what state or how accessible this info is.

  67. Mary Bruce says:

    Macart, yes that is why I think it is ALL about the oil. If Trident was more important than oil, or if the oil reserves were trivial, then it would have made sense for them to offer devomax and at least keep the nukes. But the prize is the oil. No doubt about it. They wanted both, they will get neither.

  68. Jim Thomson says:

    @Tattie-bogle 2:13pm

    Have you a link to that story? Been on the Ineos website and nothing in their “news”.

    Sort of thing that will convince one of my in-laws to vote Yes 😉

  69. Drew McMorrin says:

    Re your post on “Bigots Together” I see the BBC yes I did say BBC are reporting the fact that the post was taken down from the BT site:

  70. galamcennalath says:

    Mary Bruce says:
    if they cared that much about Trident they could offer us Devomax and be guaranteed to keep it. It’s just about the oil.

    I tend to agree. They can move Trident, they have no substitute for the loss of oil income and asset value.

    Oil has been the key for a long time ….

  71. thedogphilosopher says:

    If the extent of these oil finds are confirmed then it becomes a moral obligation not to let such potential wealth and prosperity be squandered once again by Westminster regimes. Of course they will try to keep a lid on it over the next few weeks, the problem for them is that their own media down south will celebrate the news in spite of the debate in Scotland – an own goal!

    A wee thought on the NHS. What would stop a unionist party (on orders from London) in a continuing devolved Scotland from beginning the process of privatisation? As the struggle between pro- and anti-independence ideologies plays out, I can now easily imagine a Labour/Tory coalition at Holyrood (if things go pear-shaped, that is).


  72. Vince says:

    I am convinced like many others now that the Yes vote is certainly ahead based on a whole raft of information, so how do we ensure that the massive postal vote is not rigged against the Yes side.Is there anything that can be done to oversee the integrity of that vote? Can anyone on here offer advice on this? I would be delighted to offer time and effort to help with protecting that integrity.

  73. Papadox says:

    @Mary Bruce says: 2:54 pm

    Totally agree Mary well said.

  74. Macart says:

    @Mary Bruce

    Oh the oil is the primary target, no question, but running it a close second is their key to sitting at big tables. They’ve invested billions in their their favourite toy and their commitment to the Trident upgrade has been headline news of recent times. One underwrites their economic model, the other their geopolitical strategy. IMO these two items go hand in glove in their considerations about Scotland.

    But yes I’d agree the oil is the primary motivation of the two.

  75. glenfalloch says:

    Thanks for all the help folks re: oil and redundancy in Aberdeen. Now just need to think of a polite way to tell him he’s, ahem, mistaken …

  76. heedtracker says:

    @ muttley79, Life goes on, Piper alpha blew up in 1988, there’s a statue and a garden up at Hazlehead park, a tapestry in Aberdeen Art galley but it’s impossible to forget just how needless these disasters are. When you deregulate an dangerous industry in an extreme environment like the North Sea, of course catastrophes are going to happen, they just won’t affect the CEO’s and shareholders or Wastemomster, especially not Wastmonster. Losses to be absorbed, profit to be taken, share holders to be satisfied etc

    We still don’t know how my buddy from school died on Piper. One minute he was on the deck with his crew and the next, gone. His mum probably never got over it. For years, decades even, she looked really broken by it. I doubt she ever goes to that ghastly statue either. Hardly anyone does.

  77. galamcennalath says:

    Macart says:
    “…but running it a close second is their key to sitting at big tables.”

    Another aspect to ‘top tables’ is the Security Council seat, with the likes of India believing they have as good a case to be permanent as France or UK. A diminished UK may cause a rethink.

    Also, the huge area from Scotland to Iceland would cease to be the UK’s back yard to some extent. Further strategic reduction in status.

  78. Andy-B says:

    This just confirms what we knew all along, that Westminster has and will keep on lying to Scots, in order to steal our assets. to anyone still undecided surely this shows you the underhandedness of Westminster, and adds, another reason to vote YES!.


    Jim Murphy was warned by the makers of Irn Bru, not to use their crates, whilst spouting his BT rhetoric, the makers of Scotland’s other national drink said, they wished to remain neutral during the independence referendum. Mr Murphy is still using the crates, according to the unionist Daily Record.

    Here’s Jim Murphy spewing his Westminster masters mantra.

  79. Robert Louis says:

    You know, what really angers me about the 40 year long deception by both Labour and the Tories regarding Scotland’s oil wealth, is the fact that despite taking ALL the money to London, they then have the audacity to introduce a terminology into the English language ‘Subsidy junkies’ to refer to Scots.

    How many times have I witnessed some ignorant pig or other from down the South of England wittering on, with hardly a care, about how Scotland depends upon England’s largesse, we are all scroungers, and just ‘whinging jocks’. Even worse are the assorted coterie of Labour party no hopers, currently going around telling Scots the oil is worthless, and bad for Scotland. All to save their own personal career trajectory into the house of midden, and the tax payer funded trough in London. Shame on all of them, especially Alistair Darling, who still likes to imply the oil is pretty worthless.

    We must win this vote, to end this disgraceful sham of a union once and for all. Only then will we truly see just how much London has stolen from Scotland.

    As, I think Mary said above, it really is ALL about the oil.

    Never forget those immortal words of the much despised Tory Margaret Thatcher in 1990, as her Government maliciously deceived the people of Scotland regarding Scotland’s massive oil wealth, and spent it on tax handouts for the rich, the M25 around London, and the Channel Tunnel;

    “We English, who are a marvellous people, are really very generous to Scotland”

    Vote NO, for more of the same, or vote YES for a better Scotland.

  80. Papadox says:

    How low can the mother of parliaments get? They are trying to steal our grand children’s future so they can enrich London establishment and keep strutting about like peacocks. These “no” fools can’t see any further than the end of their noses, their bigotry or their bank books, truly misguided and vengeful chancers truly nasty people.

  81. Colin says:

    It’s only a few months ago that the SG gave the go ahead for 70,000 new homes in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, including a new village with 8,000 new houses.
    There is an acute shortage of skilled labour up here, including non oil related jobs like brickies, joiners, sparkies etc.
    If you need a job then the North East is still crying out for people.

  82. X_Sticks says:


    We’ll all be looking for help Vince.

  83. galamcennalath says:

    OT Does anyone else find the YesScotland website awful?

  84. X_Sticks says:


    Can you send me an email so I can contact yhou about the WBB – my email here:

  85. tartanfever says:

    Sorry to go Off topic.

    Great news ! ‘Scotland Yet’ the feature film by Chris and Jack over at Rough Justice films is going to be available for all to watch as of today.

    Follow this link to Bella for details:

    Maybe someone on twitter can post about it and get the word out.

  86. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sorry this is not quite on topic but then again it is I, the village idiot here, so does this really surprise anyone? 😉

    I’ve just read over on Twitter that the Scottish Food and Drink industry has just announced another record turnover. They have just announced a £14 BILLION per year year turnover.

    Now being the village idiot that I am even I can see that this figure added to the figures for Tourism, renewable energy etc will all add up to a nice tidy wee sum without adding in the oil by the way. Add in the oil and it’s, well let’s just say we are very well off thank you very much! 😛

  87. cearc says:


    They want to frack around an oil refinery!

  88. Macart says:


    Couldn’t agree more. The subtle hint about how seriously they take this issue was in the quid pro quo deal hinted at by their unnamed high ranking minister in the Guardian ‘nukes for currency deal’ scenario.

  89. Bert says:

    Alex Salmond is a Privy Councillor, therefore he will vote in the interests of the Crown.

    Get riddim, let Scotland flourish

  90. Auld Rock says:

    Lesley-Anne, Just so long as they are ‘damned’, as for how I don’t give a damn. For more info make sure to watch the dreadful Sarah Smith on tomorrow night’s News Night at 22:30hrs, BBC2. Chic Brodie is due to be interviewed.

    This is the ‘game changer’.

    Auld Rock

  91. crisiscult says:

    For those asking about canvassing returns, I have it on good authority from RI and Yes sources that it looks very good, but I have no idea whether these groups want to publicise their returns or not, so I don’t want to say anything and will leave it to those higher up if they want. The simple point to get across is that if Yes doesn’t win, it’ll be very interesting to look at where their votes come from e.g. postal, very high numbers from particular areas, etc.

    Also, WBB is going to increase the momentum. I sent it to a cousin who has been intransigent since I first spoke to him about it over a year ago. He’s now a 7 in the 1-10 scale i.e. probably going to vote Yes (and I think he’s higher, he just doesn’t want to admit to a total about turn)

  92. Jim Thomson says:

    Slightly off topic

    Government consultation on off-shore renewables ending this Friday.

    Toddle over to
    if you feel the need to contribute.

  93. gerry parker says:

    Scotland and England have different crowns, which one will he vote for?

  94. Lesley-Anne says:

    Funnily enough AR I do not usually watch the unionist show on BBC 2 at 22:30. I can’t think why not but anyway I’ll try and remember to watch tomorrow night and see how Chick fares. Personally I do not hold out much hope that he will allowed to say anything without being constantly interrupted by the interviewer, there again there is always a first time. 😛

    I do know of one way to ensure that Chick is not interrupted. He should turn up at the studio and claim to have seen the light and he is now voting NO. This way he’ll be allowed to speak uninterrupted. As anyone who has watched this gawd awful show knows only too well it is only the union supporting interviewees who are permitted to speak without any interruption from Smith! 😉

  95. galamcennalath says:

    Macart says:
    “unnamed high ranking minister in the Guardian ‘nukes for currency deal’ scenario.”

    A retired admiral, whose name escapes me, pointed out that it is inconceivable that a country’s sole nuclear deterent, including warhead storage, could not realistically be housed on foreign soil. Which makes sense. Anyone thinking that way, hasn’t thought very far.

    Cameron et al began by thinking they would win this easily, if we win, history will show that the UK made an enormous mistake [from their perspective] in the way they’ve handled things.

  96. Schrödinger's cat says:

    The uk’s GDP minus 10% puts them below Brasilia, they will lose their g7 status as well

  97. YESGUY says:

    What a cracking piece here STU.

    I have said more than once that Mr Salmond will find himself with an embarrassment of riches after independence. The books will surprise even him .

    This should be shown to everyone. This is a game changer.

    Too wee , too poor, too stupid ????

    Only if we let Westminster waste the natural resources of this country.

    Think of the transformation of iScotland with these assets

    Motorway from Edinburgh to the borders and up to Aberdeen, new schools and training centers for working on our oil and gas. Cheaper heating bills the potential for industry designed along re-newables as well as oil/gas.
    More houses for our expanding population and real security for our futures. I could go on all day.

    What’s not to like ???

    Only a YES vote can give us the country we dream and hope for.

  98. Papadox says:

    Tories, labour, SLAB?, liberals, BNP, Orange order, EDL, UKIP, Celtic board, George Galloway, HOL. What do you think could give that motley crew common cause, except SELF PRESERVATION, GREED OF MONEY.

    What a parcel of rogues can only be put together by dark forces of evil and the desire for LOOT & POWER by trampling the people of Scotland and cowing them into a corner.

    Strange bed fellows, if no should win they will be back at each other’s throats on the 19/9/14 scratching the eyes out of each other for their share of the ill begotten gains. Then they will all settle in to the putrid “democratic” joke that serves as governance. Totally corrupt.

  99. heedtracker says:

    Love it! How’s 50 treating you SC:D

    Schroedinger’s Cat
    17 August 2014 12:14am

    it’s time
    vote yes with confidence
    britan is over

  100. gillie says:

    “the dreadful Sarah Smith”

    From what I am hearing “the soon to be departed dreadful Sarah Smith”.

    The ratings for Scotland 2014 have flatlined.

  101. Harry McAye says:

    C’mon Alex, give Darling hell about this next Monday and be sure to bring up his comments about oil running out by 2017. I’d even call him selfish and a liar and only interested in what’s best for Westminster, the Labour Party and Alistair Darling.

    O/T but to give you an idea of my utter hatred and contempt for the media and the Daily Record specifically, as a football fan I am photocopying reports on my team (when they win) at the local library, today costing me 16p more than buying the actual paper. I will not give them a penny anymore unless we see a more balanced reporting. I thought the Philippa Whitford article was a step in the right direction, but what I’ve seen since the debate and also from the Sun, has sickened me. They seem to have both said, about Salmond,”right,let’s get him!”

  102. Schrödinger's cat says:

    50’s treating me fine, better after the yes vote
    Get ready to roar heed

  103. Jamie Arriere says:

    It’s not just the value of oil which is underplayed in Scotland – not worth investing in, not worth living in, not worth making TV programmes in, not worth building a railway up to, not worth thinking about if they can at all help it.

    My polling card is now sitting on the mantlepiece – my Ticket to Destiny

  104. To Harry McAye I agree with you, we should be prepared to cal Darling and others liars when they blatantly lie. Their failure then to take legal action would prove what we said they lied.
    It’s only Slander or libel if it’s not true.

  105. heedtracker says:

    Get ready to roar heed. Oh fcuk aye.

  106. MochaChoca says:

    O/T Scotsman reporting FM backs Sterlingisation as plan B.

  107. Jimbo says:

    Hundreds of billions of pounds worth of oil taxes up for grabs on 18 September that can either benefit the people of Scotland or be squandered by the incompetents in Westminster.

    Westminster reckon they’ve pulled off the biggest ever con in history – convincing (they hope) a majority of Scots that they’re too incompetent to stand on their own two feet, too stupid to run their own affairs.

    Such a sense of schadenfreude I am hoping to feel on 19 September.

  108. Graeme Doig says:

    We’re gonna win this 🙂 🙂 We have to !

    Feeling good today

  109. Lesley-Anne says:

    MochaChoca says:

    O/T Scotsman reporting FM backs Sterlingisation as plan B.

    I’m sorry but is this not what we all understand, more or less, as using the pound WITHOUT a Currency Union?

    Now if only we could find someone to teach Darling, Lamont, Davidson, Rennie, and the rest of useless *ahem* politicians who keep asking what plan B is to READ then perhaps we will be able to put an end to this relentless boring “What is plan B?” nonsense once and for all! 😛

  110. Viking Girl says:

    I have a relative that works off-shore and has done for a long time, since the seventies actually. He has told me on numerous occasions that there is an unfathomable amount of oil still to be found out there, in what should be our territorial waters, and, I heard an American on BBC Radio Scotland a while ago saying that he had heard, from other American oil workers back in the seventies, that we were being cheated out of fabulous wealth, so let’s get it for ourselves at last, folks.

  111. gerry parker says:

    Just watched wee dougie alexander on TV out doing the Tories work.
    Despicable .

  112. Croompenstein says:

    Transition is the new buzz word for the nawbags and the BBC. Heard James Cook interviewing FM and pushed on this, also wee Duggy Alexander was whittering on about transition.

  113. HandandShrimp says:

    Lesley Anne

    The First Minister first suggested that a pegged currency or Sterlingisation was plan B months ago on radio 4 and Better Together ran a piece at the time regarding how much they hate that idea. Darling has said all the options including our own currency are rotten. So the desperate clamour for Plan B is not in order to discuss the better option but rather so Better Together can focus of dissing whatever Plan B is. They are not seriously interested in discussing anything they just want windmills to tilt at.

    I have also noticed a fairly unpleasant undercurrent to notions of taking a route like Panama’s with comments that are pretty disrespectful to Panama. I’m surprised that Better Together haven’t suggested that the Scottish currency will be called the Wet Back as they tip toed right up that line on the Guardian and elsewhere.

  114. desimond says:

    AD : “Whats your plan B?”
    AS : “Sterlingisation”
    AD : “Thats another country in control, what use is that?”
    AS : “We’re gonna let youze worry about that, we have oil funds to set up”

  115. Andy smith says:

    Edinburgh evening news letters page has a few stoaters today,starting off with andi from Dumfries and Galloway( don’t they have their own local paper down there ) who has one half of his family in the yes camp and the other half(daft) in the no. He himself is sitting very uncomfortably on the fence,but not for long,as the rest of his letter is an attack on the Scottish gov.
    Next one up is Paul who accuses previous writers of hyperbole and misinterpretation, then goes on to say oil is running out and that he couldn’t see an increase in Scots populations because all jobs would be exported to run.
    Best of all is Jim who states in reply to previous writer’s premise that av. wage earner in Norway has disposable income of £35,456 against Scots av.of 19,292…” who wants to live in a country like that,where it costs £10 for a pint of beer “, tourists couldn’t afford to come here!
    Jim obviously hasn’t been drinking in the city centre during the festival!.

  116. galamcennalath says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    “So the desperate clamour for Plan B is not in order to discuss the better option but rather so Better Together can focus of dissing whatever Plan B is.”

    Exactly. AS has to stick to the Plan A CU line. Perhaps put his point a bit better and more forcefully, though.

    Anyway, who ever heard of any politician anywhere saying, ” here’s my policy but if that doesn’t work, here’s my alternative policy “. That would just be indecisive. And anyway, by definition, Plan B is always bound to be inferior to the chosen Plan A.

  117. bald eagle says:

    yes yes yes
    got my lottery ticket for the september the 18th draw
    going out that night so wont know the result till breakfast time

    if my numbers dont come up f%&k it

    but if they do im a F$%^£!”g billionaire

    ok not for long but it would feel f£$%^&g good to be one of the richest nations on earth

  118. Andy-B says:

    David Cameron, claiming that Alex Salmond, is a desperate man, making a desperate argument.

    Pffft. David Cameron sounds a bit desperate to me.

  119. Giving Goose says:

    Lest get one point clarified regarding Douglas Alexander.

    He is a Tory.

    The only reason that he is not (officilly) a member of the Tory party is that he would not get voted into Westminster as a Tory in his constituency, so he hides behind a Red Rose.

    A Tory to his bones!

  120. Andy-B says:

    Here’s one for for Lamont, Dugdale, Curran, and Ballie, not forgetting Miss Marra. This lot constantly claim Labour, enjoys the support of women in their party.

    Apparently not all Labour MP’s want to see more women in the Labour party.

  121. Auld Rock says:

    I was discussing the Referendum and currency with a couple of Norwegian yachtsmen and they suggested, why doesn’t Scotland after the vote speak to the Norwegian Government about investing some of their Sovereign Wealth Fund in Scotland for a few years until such times as we get our own currency established. I pointed out that they would probably be threatened by fUK, at which point they guffawed and said, they’re broke a busted flush it’s ‘your’ oil that’s saving them from total bankruptcy.

    As for Smith, like you Lesley-Anne I’m not usually allowed to watch as my wife is fearful that I’ll put a hammer through our new smart TV’s screen, LOL. I’ll bet you she’ll vanish after the 18th though, back to her London parasites.

    Auld Rock

  122. Proud Cybernat says:

    O/T – apologies folks.

    Just saw this on the Herald BTL comments from Labour Councillor Terry Kelly:

    “My apologies Mr. Creighton, a simple mistake. I consider Scotland to be neither a nation or a country, I do not concern myself with such mind numbing trivia.”

    Says it all.

  123. fred blogger says:

    i’m fed up with WM lies and deceit, on it’s own a good enough reason to want to be rid of them. which is inspired by the jarrow march to save the nhs…

  124. Dan Huil says:

    It doesn’t matter what AS says, or how he does, in the 2nd debate, he will be hammered again by the unionist media. Thankfully, judging by recent polls, most people in Scotland will ignore such unionist prejudice.

  125. Adam Jeal says:

    @AndyB – Jim Murphy isn’t just using the Iru-Bru crates. When he was here in Sanquhar, he made a point of drinking a can of Iru-Bru (man of the people, see!) whilst standing on said crates spouting his lies to a crowd that was half his bussed-in renta-naw’s and half actual locals who were none to happy at his presence and that of odious little creep, David Mundell. The people of Sanquhar were having none of their patronizing B.S.

    Maybe Barr can sue him?

  126. Andy-B says:

    The Westminster mouthpiece the Telegraph up to their old tricks again as BT claim an independent Scotland wouldn’t have an Olympic team at RIO 2016.

    However there’s just one fly in the BT’s ointment, when countries like South Sudan can compete at the Olympics, even though they didn’t have an Olympic Committee.

    South Sudan became independent in 2011, and competed at the London Olympic in 2012.

  127. Stevie boy says:

    The more I read the more angered and disgusted I get.
    All this oil cover up needs to come out (some way) into the public domain.
    I canvassed on Sunday and a lot of people still believe we are subsidised and won’t have enough money or resources to go our own way.
    Please please let there be some way to assure them. If we do independence is certain!!
    Over to you Mr Salmond!!!

  128. Adam Jeal says:

    *typo. Irn-Bru (doh!)

  129. Fireproofjim says:

    My poll card for Sept.18th arrived today.
    Fo me it is the culmination of fifty-five years of voting and working for independence.
    At last it is in our hands and we cannot let this one chance go begging. Younger Scots may get another chance, but I won’t, and will be devastated if the timid and venal throw away our future.
    Anyway a last few frantic weeks of leaflet deliveries and street stalls awaits. Let’s get out there and win the day and all the days to come!

  130. Andy-B says:

    @Adam Jeal.

    Aye Adam I saw a clip of Jim Murphy at Clyebank shopping centre, on his stolen crates, Murphy was surrounded by YES flags.

    Irn Bru must sue.

  131. Johnny says:

    Gerry Parker @ 4:17pm

    Yes, saw D Alexander as well. Seemed as if he was trying to outdo Darling’s record for how often he could parrot ‘best of both worlds’ in a 2 minute stretch. He must think that this slogan is convincing: it isn’t, its banality and meaninglessness makes my blood boil.

  132. Schrödinger's cat says:

    Really enjoying winding up the trolls on coif tonight

  133. ronnie anderson says:

    Lets give Westminster a rite kick in the Haw Maws tell them tae F*** Aff & pay they’re own £1.4 trillion dept, then start the acounting processes for all they have stolen from Scotlands People, if the Kenyians can sue for the misstreatment so can WE.

  134. ronnie anderson says:

    Who,s the Tartan Tory’s noo,I dont hear them shouting that now.

  135. LStewart says:

    The more I read about Westminster’s deceit, the more convinced I am that No voters are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

  136. Jim McIntosh says:


    They aren’t just voting cards they’re ‘golden tickets’ and we are all Charlie Buckets’ 🙂

    As the last lines of the Gene Wilder (the best) version goes:

    Willie Wonka: But Charlie, don’t forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted.
    Charlie Bucket: What happened?
    Willy Wonka: He lived happily ever after.

  137. Chris Cairns says:

    Just checked the weather on the Met Office website and there was an ad – ‘Anonymous Survey’ it said and asked the indyref question. I clicked on it without clicking either box and it immediately went to a supplementary question about age/male/female and … that was it! It’ll probably put that down as a Don’t Know. Bugger.

  138. English and proud says:

    Sooner you Scots fek off the better … and put another 50ft on Hadrians wall while ur at it lol. You’ll find that paying for everything urselves (Military, Civil Service, Politicians, higher interest rates on loans, 120billion debt,printing/minting your own currency (Scottish versions of the ENGLISH POUND) etc, etc) don’t come cheap. LOOL

  139. Stevie boy says:

    Yep totally agree.. stuff sharing the pound. Let Westminster pay the £1.4 trillion debt THEY have built up and we’ll say that’s us quits for all OUR oil they have wasted. Even though they will still be getting away with it.
    We are a decent race after all, unlike the Westminster race!!

  140. Lesley-Anne says:

    I’m loving your Norwegian sailing friends there AR. 😉

    I think they are right though, without OUR oil rUK is a busted flush, they have no where to go. When they go to the markets to borrow MORE Billions as they surely will they will undoubtedly find that their interest rates will go through the roof! 😛

  141. cearc says:

    Auld Rock,

    I agree. I always thought that any initial capital that we may would probably come from Norway. Their problem is finding places to invest and they certainly know what resources we have, better than any credit agency.

    ‘I’ll bet you she’ll vanish after the 18th though…’ I hope you mean ms. Smith and not your good wife!

  142. Papadox says:


    VOTE NAW: GET SHAFTED. Don’t complain!

  143. Lesley-Anne says:

    Alex Salmond shoots down in flames the favourite unionist myth “Scotland is subsidised” 😛

  144. Croompenstein says:

    Ponsonby the unionist schmuck with his Plan B shit, do us a favour Bernard and f*ck right off..

  145. Giving Goose says:

    OT Can I draw your attention to a piece in the Financial Times; it appears that US Banks are drawing up plans to leave London for Ireland should the UK exit the EU. It’s behind a pay wall.

    What was that scare story about banks leaving Scotland, Mr Darling?

  146. Les Wilson says:

    Sorry O/T
    My son reports that it is on facebook that voting forms can be signed (X) in PENCIL.
    After contacting the E/C about this they said that it is right, you can take your own pen.

    Others please check this, but on all accounts it’s true.

  147. Keith Hynd says:

    In an independent Scotland we really need to make a change to the way the oil industry is run, as I see it, it isn’t really our oil all we will be doing is issuing licences and collecting tax, not that that isn’t worth a few bob, but, if we keep looking to the Nordic countries for ideas, then why are we still contemplating running the oil industry the way the establishment have set it up? As sure as there’s dung in a goat the big oil companies are creaming off the top because there mates at Westminster have shares in the company and win and win again!

  148. Les Wilson says:

    On tv especially BBC they are showing a street getting doorstepped by NO canvassers all hitting doors in a row at the same time. Whenever has anyone seen that.
    It was as if who was filming it said ” right go now”

    I remember this being staged before. Trying to make it look like BT is a big campaign.

  149. Cag-does-thinking says:

    Nobody seems to have commented on the lunchtime BBC news (networked for even englanders) and there was a piece on the refurendum with the Labour No campaigners going door to door. Not Scousers on a paid bus trip but who else but ordinary mum Clare Lally who does seem to be their only campaigner apart from Dougie Alexander. She has been largely edited out of the 6 o clock version.

  150. gordoz says:

    Rev- Im astonished n ‘at

    Have just seen an Orinary mother and sure I’ve seen members of UKIP in their Ref broadcast on STV !

    As wee Johann would say – Im fair astonished !!

  151. boris says:

    North Sea Oil & Gas Running Out? “Loasda mince” from the doom & gloom Westminster politicians and their private enterprise cronies. Wishing to maintain the, “status quo” so that they will be further enabled to rip Scotland off. Vote, “Yes” in the referendum. Oh! and yet more bad news from the North Sea. Potentially another few billion tonnes oil.

    Trapoil and the Romeo Oilfield discovery

    Trapoil has entered into an agreement with Prostar Capital Limited, a global private equity firm, which will enable Trapoil to participate in the consolidation of the Romeo discovery, a high value asset within the North Sea. Prostar’s management believes that there is considerable value in the North Sea, and has established a substantial fund targeted at acquiring undervalued assets and companies in the region.

    The Romeo discovery (drilled in 2012) in which Trapoil now holds a controlling position, has SIGNIFICANT POTENTIAL in the event a further planned high impact well is drilled. TOTAL OIL controls, with 100% equity, the adjacent block to the west that contains approximately 20 per cent. of Romeo and has a lookalike structure named Alfa (or Scarinish). In Q4 2013, Trapoil farmed out its Valleys asset, located near the Forties field, to TOTAL OIL and in return negotiated, inter alia, an option to acquire up to a 35 per cent. equity interest in Alfa. This option has now been extended through to late July 2014. The Company believes this option to be important as drilling information from the Alfa prospect will be key to unlocking the potential in the Romeo discovery. Alfa is expected to be drilled in 2015 and is a commitment to DECC.

  152. desimond says:

    The whole debate just captured on BBC News 24 there….2 campaigners asked by Gavin Esler for their reasons

    Guy from Yes – To let us live in a more equal society instead of a land where bankers are bailed out but people are not.
    Guy from No – I talk to lots of entrepreneurs and theyre worried about the currency, pensions and will they be able to trade okay with places like Birmingham!

  153. Ken MacColl says:

    Good old BBC continue to “manage” the news.
    In the 1.00pm edition in a Scottish vox pop section an elderly lady was heard to state that she would not vote Yes as “Scotland would not manage…. There’s nothing left here now.” This damning phrase was carefully edited out of the clip shown on the 6.00pm bulletin. I wonder why?

  154. galamcennalath says:

    NHS England. Watched a news report about the new NHS Jarrow marchers. The report said 4% of NHSE spend is with probate healthcare. Doesn’t sound a lot …. However, they also said that there are contracts worth £1billion each currently out for tender. Since NHSE spend is about £100billion, each of these contracts is an additional 1% privatised.

    It IS HAPPENING despite what the NaeSayers claim.

  155. Minty says:

    According to the Twitters, ‘Yvonne’ made an appearance in the BT campaign broadcast tonight. Oopsy.

  156. As did Ms Lally. and the auld fossil from the BT poster

  157. ian foulds says:

    fireproofjim – ‘At last it is in our hands and we cannot let this one chance go begging. Younger Scots may get another chance, but I won’t, and will be devastated if the timid and venal throw away our future.
    Anyway a last few frantic weeks of leaflet deliveries and street stalls awaits. Let’s get out there and win the day and all the days to come!’

    Go for it man!

    I don’t want to come back as a retiree in the New Year to find it wasn’t YES!!

    Slightly O/T – Having seen Ms Lally on BBC Worldwide today (I am in Dubai) ask a lady how she was voting the lady said ‘I am just voting No’. We are maybe not too poor or wee but I ‘hae ma doots’ about the third string to that bow.

  158. alastair seago says:

    “The oil is running out and an independent Scotland will soon be bankrupt.” So how will the UK cope without oil revenues? They rely on it more than Scotland does.

  159. Davy S says:

    Slightly OT but here’s an appeal I found:

    “What a fantastic response by the fans of the Wings Over Scotland site in reaching a £55,000 total of a £25,000 goal for the Wee Blue Book.

    However there are other causes which are also worthy of support, such as the one below which is looking to fund for advertsing trailers:

    There’s only 4 weeks to go and every donation is vital. So with the polls saying we are neck and neck let’s go the extra mile and make sure a Yes vote is delivered on 18 September by supporting as many worthy Yes causes as possible.

    Please give what you can but if not then you can still show your support by sharing the link above via your social media.”

    Worth a few quid IMO.

  160. Bob Sinclair says:

    I see the ‘wee ordinary pensioner’was on that BT debacle tonight. Dont know how she finds the time what with following the Murph all over the country. 2

  161. Croompenstein says:

    Esler has been in Edinburgh all day saw him with the woeful Lament, caught him earlier with a lassie who said ‘Scotland has been part of Great Britain for so long why change’ so same geography teacher as JaBa. The best one I saw was Hardeep Singh Kohli who was excellent and shot Esler down with well balanced argument, he needs to have a word with his brother!

  162. Fireproofjim says:

    Keith Hynds.
    You are right. There are better ways to set up the offshore oil industry.
    Norway has their own National oil company – Statoil – which takes a stake in all oil fields in Norwegian waters if it wishes. It also operates platforms and refines crude oil and is mega-successful. We used to have a similar company called Britoil but the Thatcher government sold it off to BP in the 1980s.
    However the present system is the norm, and there is nothing wrong with it as long as they are properly regulated and taxed.

  163. Lesley-Anne says:

    I caught a glimpse of the dreadful Esler earlier Croomp, he was interviewing Val McDermid and some other guy, musician I think. In my view Val was far superior getting her points across clearly meanwhile MR NO started off on, well I won’t go there think you can all guess what it was. 😛

  164. Robert Peffers says:

    The BBC bias yet again. There is a spectacular convoy through Scotland and not a dicky bird on BBC. However, Murphy has a meeting in which any observant person can identify the same small group of people that attend every one of his travelling ginger crate meetings. then they video it with only close-up shots so as to NOT show the sparse crowd and it is splashed across every newscast on every BBC channel.

  165. Lesley-Anne says:

    To be fair Robert what would you rather watch, a video of over 300 vehicles proclaiming pride in their nation and pride in that nation’s ability to regain its independence or a video of a sad, bad, nasty, vile and shouty wee man on an empty Irn Bru crate? 😛

  166. Nan says:

    It looks like the owner of Iron Bru is picking up the tab for Jim Murphy and his entourage 100 day/100 town jolly, promoting Iron Bru

  167. Tam Jardine says:

    Adam Jeal

    I can just imagine the bold Jim telling the guid folk of Sanquhar that they have the best of both worlds. What a plum.

    The Nith Valley hasn’t exactly been top of the priority list for Westminster over the years.

    Maybe Jim thinks that in the event of a no vote, the townsfolk of Sanquhar, Kirkconnel, New Cumnock etc will sell up and buy property down south taking their wealth with them?

    You’ve got to admire his brass-neck, dinking in to communities he presumably knows heehaw about, unannounced and uninvited, lecturing them on why they should subject their communities and descendents to the same level of underinvestment forever.

    Me? I couldn’t do it. I wonder if the Sanquhar Better Together massed ranks put on a reception for him?

  168. Lesley-Anne says:

    O.K. folks, some of might remember a few weeks ago that Nissan threatened to move out of the U.K. if Cameron and his cronies ended up leaving the E.U. Well guess what peeps? 😉

    Alex Salmond has apparently stepped up to the plate and into the breech, so to speak. Here is a link to the Auto Express that covers the story about the SG offering Nissan extremely impressive terms to move to Scotland. 😛

  169. Robert Peffers says:

    @Les Wilson says: 18 August, 2014 at 6:21 pm:

    “My son reports that it is on facebook that voting forms can be signed (X) in PENCIL.
    After contacting the E/C about this they said that it is right, you can take your own pen.”

    I have a vague recollection that yes you can use your own pen but that it must be use black ink, (but I couldn’t remember where or when that information came from).

  170. Onwards says:


    The real issue is the Scottish NHS, it seems…
    Oil is not so far up the agenda as it once was.

    It makes sense to link them then.

    Surely it is a vote winner to make clear that we can spend the second half of Scotland’s oil in Scotland.

    To boost our schools and hospitals and roads.

    I agree that oil talk seems to drift over some peoples heads.

    But it all comes down to money, and where it is spent.

  171. Onwards says:

    @Keith Hynd:

    It beats me why the SNP hasn’t proposed a ‘Scottish Statoil’

    Seems like an obvious vote winner to me.
    It demonstrates that Scotland’s energy wealth is part-owned by the people of Scotland.

    At the moment we get taxes and revenues, but the control and security of a state company means the interests of the entire country are foremost – it could provide and protect high quality jobs and long term interests – and expand overseas like Statoil has.

    Perhaps having the Greens on side has held back the idea, but the Scottish Government could own a stake in huge offshore windfarms too.

    Imagine the potential for green energy with a huge area of the North Sea covered in huge turbines.
    The cost and technology is improving all the time.

    We could have cheap hydrogen for all our fuel cell cars in a few years !!

  172. Brotyboy says:

    @ Davy S

    Fuck off Andrew, with your spamming again.

  173. Muscleguy says:

    I am going to go out on Tues and Wed with RIC canvassing in Dundee. I can’t wait to use this on the doorsteps. BTW apparently I’m going out on my own without a minder this time, gulp! But never mind, I’ve always liked discussions and debates since I started debating at school.

  174. Lesley-Anne says:

    Should you come across any of the “I hate Alic Sammin” brigade Muscleguy then perhaps this wee phase might help. 😛

    if I was guaranteed independence for ending my career id do it tomorrow”

  175. Joe Swan says:

    I saw Jim Murphy on Friday just outside the Hillhead Underground on Byres Road.

    The way the ginger crate stage was set up it narrowed the pavement between the exit and a bus shelter.

    The crowd seemed to swell every ten minutes or so as passengers had to stand back or work out how to get round this obstacle. I think most people were happy when he finished talking.

    The crowd shots taken from specific angles may look impressive but will include bemused underground passengers, those waiting for the bus as well as shoppers trying to get past without having to cross the road.

  176. Wee Jimmy says:

    Judging by BT propaganda doing the rounds on social media, once you correct the grammatical errors and typos obviously, is that they will continue to emphasise that oil is a “volatile commodity” in order to play down the latest findings. The UK government didn’t always think so – remember the Iraq war?:

    Just shared the above link on fb.

    Perhaps another reminder about Scotland’s contribution to renewable, green energy would be a useful addition to the movement right now. Just thinking out loud.

  177. Will Podmore says:

    It’s not Scotland’s oil wealth, it’s Britain’s oil wealth.
    Just like Yorkshire’s mines and textiles, Cornwall’s tin, they are all Britain’s wealth, Britain’s resources. If the oil reserves are big, that’s great news – for all of us.
    Scotland is not discriminated against. Scotland is not ripped off any more than the rest of us. Alex Salmond has acknowledged that Scotland is not a colony. All the evils that have come from Westminster have been visited impartially on all Britain’s workers. So our British working class – which includes you – has to unite and fight, not run away from the difficult struggle to overcome the dominance of finance capital.

  178. Wee Jimmy says:

    Unfortunately most of us don’t have another 300 years to spare.

  179. john ferguson says:

    Is possible to have panel members at a debate swear an oath to tell the truth and NBTT?. It would save me shouting at the telly and being shouted at by my wife.

  180. Jim Hagart says:

    I love reading the comments but on the off chance that most people who access sites such as this are those inclined to vote Yes I trust that campaigners don’t sit back and believe that everything will go their way. To win this referendum you need to keep talking to friends, neighbours, workmates and direct them to the sources of information that will correct the biases instilled in them by main stream media.

    I live in England after moving around the UK for years seeking work. As I met my current partner when I was working in my last job we settled here but I’m still a Scot at heart. It grieves me that most of my neighbours don’t even know that a referendum that could turn their lives upside down is about to take place. That, I think, gives a clear indication of how well informed they are and why the most recent survey indicates there could be a backlash against Scotland regardless of whether the Vote is Yes or No.

    I would suggest therefore it’s better to be damned for a Yes Vote than a No Vote. I doubt if things could get worse economically north of the border. You would certainly be able to avoid getting dragged into more Middle Eastern Wars. And, if the reports of new oil finds are correct (don’t get much a mention in the press but seem major in the specialist media) then let volatility be your guide.

    People make Scotland and more oil could put the icing on any socially and economically beneficial changes an independent Scottish Government introduces – and I’m not necessarily thinking of the SNP. As I said on some other site recently, if the oil is found in massive quantities I’d love to see the contortions Westminster politicians would have to perform to repeat the mantras common in the 70’s. It’s not Scotland’s Oil. Don’t be greedy. Better together.

    Social media didn’t exist in these days so mainstream media carried all the stories and black could easily be declared white once memories faded. Nowadays I doubt they could live with their earlier pronouncements once they were dug out of YouTube and other archives. But no doubt they’ll try.

  181. Renewable Bob says:

    This is great news for Scotland and with careful management will benefit the country for a long time to come. As long as we make sure that the oil fund is not put into any immoral financial institutions of which there seems to be plenty. Maybe kick out the crooked bankers or start a new one from scratch without any old Etonians or public school cronies at the helm.

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