The suicide squad
The UK is currently a non-functioning democracy. The Prime Minister has handed in his notice and has no nominated successor. The leader of the Opposition has just been served with a vote of no confidence by 80% of his own MPs. Parliamentarians are openly discussing overturning the result of a democratic referendum. People are pretending that Angela Eagle is a credible future Prime Minister.
The country, in short, has lost its mind.
In the clip above from yesterday’s news, Eagle is seen weeping because she chose to resign a meaningless shadow-cabinet post, despite her own constituency party asking her to support the party’s democratically-elected leader.
God help us if there was a war – Vladimir Putin might say something beastly about her hairdo and give the British PM a complete nervous breakdown. Yet we’re being asked to believe that Jeremy Corbyn is so unelectable that Labour would have a better chance with this woman in charge.
(Or possibly Tom Watson, last seen posting Snapchat pics of himself glomping about at Glastonbury like some sort of hippy Nero as his country and party disintegrated.)
So as the Tories send the UK hurtling towards the EU exit door and a future of the imbecilic Boris Johnson leading the nation, let’s review the state of the Labour Party – the only alternative proposed by those who maintain that Scotland is better served by staying with Westminster.
————————————————————————————————–
1. Jeremy Corbyn was elected just nine months ago by an overwhelming landslide of Labour members, winning a greater mandate than even Tony Blair.
2. Since then he’s performed pretty averagely, despite being constantly undermined by his own MPs, who were plotting a coup against him before he was even elected.
Against lurid predictions of catastrophe, Labour have done fine in by-elections and council elections, won the London mayoral election and closed the gap on the Tories in the polls, which just before Corbyn’s election as leader stood as high as 14 points.
3. The excuse being used for the coup is that Corbyn didn’t do enough to persuade Labour supporters to vote Remain in the EU referendum. Yet 63% did – just 1% fewer than the share among SNP voters, which has conspicuously failed to trigger demands for Nicola Sturgeon’s resignation.
We’re somewhat less than convinced that the Labour “heartland” areas which voted Leave in large numbers would have been turned around had an Islington MP shouted at them more stridently that they should stop blaming immigrants for poverty.
4. Arguing against this, the plotters claim that Labour would have performed better in the elections and the referendum had it had a different leader, despite not a shred of material evidence existing that there’s any potential leader the public likes any more than Corbyn. He is, in effect, being judged against a phantom.
5. Labour has an established procedure for a leadership challenge – 50 MPs have to back a new contender, at which point there’s a vote. Yet the “rebels” chose instead to publicly quit one-by-one over a period of several days, ensuring that the story stayed in the news all weekend rather than the chaos of Brexit.
The idea of this was to pressure Corbyn into resigning without anyone having to stand up against him – something that the briefest of glances at Corbyn’s long history of stubborn rebellion would have indicated was never going to happen.
6. With all the shock of the tide coming in, the Sun rising in the morning and bears having a toilet break among trees, Corbyn has emphatically refused to do so, saying that anyone who wants his job can come and fight for it. Polling currently suggests that he’ll win any new contest comfortably.
(54% of Labour voters want Corbyn to stay. Of the named alternatives in today’s Times/YouGov poll, Hilary Benn is top with just 12%. Of those likely to actually stand against Corbyn, Tom Watson has a feeble 4% and Angela Eagle a laughable 1%.)
7. Knowing this, the plotters are frantically trying to have a leader who was elected nine months ago with more than three times the vote share of his nearest rival banned by law from even running in the contest.
This opens up the gruesome possibility of the contest being fought out in the courts for months before a single vote can be cast.
8. Should Corbyn win again, the party will surely shatter. 172 of Labour’s 232 MPs – 74% – will have announced in advance that they can’t work with their newly-elected leader. They’ll have no option but to resign the whip, either sitting as independents, joining another party, or forming a brand-new one.
(Remarkably, a furious David Blunkett insisted on television last night that the people supporting Corbyn – that is, over 250,000 party members – should be the ones to split away from the 172 party members opposing him, meaning that each MP considers their opinion to carry more weight than that of 1,462 ordinary members.)
9. If more of the 60 Labour MPs who would be left join the 172 – which is possible, as only 40 MPs actually voted for Corbyn in yesterday’s confidence motion – the SNP could become the official Opposition, with 54 MPs.
10. Alternatively, if most of the “rebels” form a new breakaway Labour offshoot, the new party would become the official Opposition, despite not a single person in Britain having voted for its MPs as such.
Individual MPs are not obliged to stand down and fight a by-election if they change party, but having it done en masse to the extent that a new Opposition was formed would surely be democratically unsustainable.
The country would then be faced with something in the region of 200 by-elections simultaneously. The new party would probably be unable to afford to fight them all, as it would have no members paying subscription fees and no support from trade unions. Without funds for an effective campaign, it would almost certainly end up splitting the Labour vote and allowing the Tories or UKIP to take some of the seats.
11. There’s no guarantee that the rebels would actually give up even after a defeat in the leadership election, though. Yesterday in the Spectator some were quoted saying that “if necessary [we] will have to hold repeated votes and leadership contests in order to dislodge him”, which is a mindboggling prospect.
12. It’s of course possible that Corbyn could lose the leadership election. At this point, Labour would also shatter. A large proportion of the 200,000 new members who joined either expressly to elect Corbyn or as a result of his election would very likely leave, taking their membership fees with them. But his supporters in the Parliamentary party would have no reason to quit, and would become a toxic Militant-style faction.
13. At some point during this mayhem – next week, to be precise – the Chilcot Report will be released, setting off a fresh bout of internecine warfare within the party.
14. On top of all that, there may or may not be a UK general election in October, which Labour would either have to fight in the middle of an insanely bitter leadership contest or in the middle of an explosive split, and in either event with a leader that roughly half of the party’s MPs and members would consider an incompetent imbecile, a backstabbing traitor, or both.
(Our money would normally be against a general election, but the Tories may not be able to resist the chance to have one in those circumstances, confident that they’d not only win a personal mandate for the new PM but greatly increase their majority.)
————————————————————————————————–
So there you go, Scotland. If you want to stay in the UK, it’s looking like the Tories with Boris Johnson or Theresa May as Prime Minister, and the country out of Europe, for however many decades it takes for Labour to put itself back together again.
If only there was some other choice, eh?
Seriously, I believe we need to go for IndyRef2 this year. May never get a better window of opportunity.
Not to be picky, but why is there a picture of the Canadian parliament in there?
Because it was the best picture that illustrated the point being made at that juncture.
Sums it up perfectly and puts into perspective the real possibilities of no labour and Tory government’s for a long time. Scotland not only requires independence, it bloody well needs it!
NO
Vote NO you get nothing.
BBC out doing it’s lies.
They are all gong on holiday soon. 2 months. The Tories are a dangerous laughing stock. Unbelievable.
Not once did I get the unshakeable impression Corbyn felt Europe was the natural place for merry England to be. His few ‘Remain’ speeches were half-hearted and lacklustre.
Why was that?
One can argue he has the right philosophical outlook to fashion the right anti-neocon economic policies, and one can back that with the Labour party members who supported him, but when a leader hasn’t the gumption to flush the toilet on his own detractors he needs to accept he’s a born second banana.
And I though Scotland had problems, let’s get out of here and let them get on with it.
Come on Nicola!!!
…but apart from that, everything’s fine, right?
Yes, #indyref2 this year. I expect (hope) it will be a clear binary:
> Scotland should REMAIN in the EU, and leave the UK (become independent)
> Scotland should REMAIN in the UK, and leave the EU (not become independent).
Seriously, a major reason for me to vote YES last time was the apparent incompetence, arrogance and general indifference of the Tory party, which I thought would damage Scotland and the UK over the decades.
It was therefore remarkable to witness them manage it so spectacularly last week in a single day.
You really couldn’t make it up, any publisher or program maker would tell you it’s too far fetched.
All those Tory careerists in Labour, have doomed it to the wilderness or extinction.
Scotland independent in Europe, we know it makes sense.
Hey Stu why not create your own party with the ideals of the snp. Running it from down south. CWSNP Cooperative With the Scottish National Party, I sense a fund raiser and a host of support that can be drafted in.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The suicide squad The UK is currently a non-functioning democracy. The Prime Minister has handed in his […]
Unionist Parties don’t do democracy. That is why so few people join them. They are a laughing stock.
Could they not do a Sturgeon and have their Scottish leader step up to the plate when Westminster is throwing toys out of prams?
Kez could … why is my computer red underlining this? There is nothing wrong in grammar or spelling that I can see.
Kez could … aha, I see, bugger, Computer 1 Human 0
The issue for Labour party members and supporters is not Corbyn.
The issue is what the Labour party stand for. Most members reject the Red Tory philosophy yet are stuck with it as long as they select back stabbing Red Tories to represent their constituencies.
Labour is fucked with or without Corbyn as leader. A split is inevitable. Scottish labour voters take note and take your party back.
Step 1. Support Independence for Scotland. It’s your only hope.
We may get a dose of crabbs an outside chance but couldn’t resist
This really is very important for England/Wales.
If Corbyn is ousted then their politics will be 3 right wing parties fighting for the sound bite vote which will keep pulling them to the right. (Oh, and the LibDems).
It is looking like he was indeed the right man at the right time for the job.
I cannot find myself much interested though. Already it seems like a foreign country and there is much more important stuff happening here.
And we thought the slabbers were eejits their bosses are even worse.
JC should stick to his guns and tell the blairites to do one and remove the Labour whip.
Labours problem is that they think it is something special to be a Labour Party member. We always hear how people say “my family always voted labour” what a cliche. “Born into a Labour Party” they don’t know what the party stands for so they qualify their support by reverting to history and tradition.
Eddie the Eagle would be a better choice, especially when considering the leap of faith nature of things, and at least there would be a few laughs along the way. Don’t knock the laughs, its worked for Boris so far.
Tom Watson, that photie looks contrived. Yes there is mud on his boots but only at the bottom, no mud splatters up the side. They look new and just put on in the last 5 minutes. Ditto his trousers, just the one strangely isolated spot of mud and who TF wears cream trousers in a mud field? Also not convinced that can of cider is even open. However the surrounding area with no-one in it in an otherwise densely packed campus, is rather more convincing.
soz for ot mr peffers,
irish taoiseach addresses holyrood
link to scottishparliament.tv
erin gu brath
All driven by soothsayer McTernan, the man for whom I coin the phrase ‘failure denier.
Very well thought out & well reasoned article. Corbyn has less chance of winning an election than I have though. But that’s democracy. It would mean labour picking a new leader after losing the next election. Far less messy.
Now the chaos of Brexit is on page 2 of all the right wing newspapers. Corbyn has been hated by the plp for forty years so has developed a hide like a rhino. The Blairites want Jezza gone because he’s going to be in a position to make them squirm come Chillcott. Whatever happens Corbyn is finished
Angus robertson takes a long while (good) to list all the things that Sturgeon is doing and people she is meeting.
He also asks CMD:
Q: Did CMD mention Scotland, Gibraltar and London in his discussions yesterday in Brussels?
A: “I did” says CMD puffing out his chest.
CMD’s hearts not in this now, just going through the motions, roll on new PM I think he is feeling it looks a bit older since last week.
I don’t think the snide remarks about Angela Eagle or Tom Watson are called for. I’m sure you’ll say something warm-hearted in response to this, if at all, but that’s the sort of thing I’d expect to read from Paul Staines and his mob.
Anyway, you’re generally right that it’s hard to see how Labour is going to survive, let alone win an election. Which is a tragedy for the people of these islands because it would mean that outside Scotland we’ll be left with politics centred around the Conservatives and Ukip. But you guys will be okay – Nicola Sturgeon just needs to get on with it.
#indyref2 + #londependence
Please God*, Get me out of this asylum, I’m slowly losing my mind….The party members want him, He’s popular in the parties rank and file, but the MP’s in his own party don’t want him in charge…..Lunacy..
The Prime minister abdicates, and leaves the rest of the wolf pack to scrabble about for what’s left of the UK.
The “Wolf Pack” all go into hiding and start backtracking on what they promised.
The racist section of the country have now been allowed to vent their spleen at the immigrant section of our society.
I’m beginning to think that this country needs a reboot….
*God used for illustrative purposes only. Other deities are available although results/existence is not guaranteed
Well done on that summary of catastrophe. Its like watching someone fall down stairs over and over. Another Brownian legacy for his scotland region. Hard core BoJo/May tory rule for decades, Brexit recession with possible depression, is there any way out?
Alex Salmond says Bomber Bliar’s already been given the bits of Chilcot what he’s in but no one else has. Says it UKOK all today, or at least this lunchtime.
David Coburn Tweeted :
“Why do SNP even have MPs in Westminster if they don’t recognise uk”?
Can anyone see the IRONY/STUPIDITY in this tweet ?
It wasn’t Corbyn’s luke warm campaign to remain that that caused voters to opt for brexit, it was the excitable Eddie Izzard’s performance on Question Time that swung it for most people.
Ken500 says:
29 June, 2016 at 12:48 pm
They are all gong on holiday soon. 2 months. The Tories are a dangerous laughing stock. Unbelievable.
If those chumps go off on holiday (after causing all this shit), they may not have a UK to come back to in two months time.
RE: Farage – folks, don’t think for a minute that Farage is back-tracking – he is deliberately grumbling about betrayal etc to position UKIP for the coming GE. Think about it – if, as expected WM drags its feet over Brexit, there are going to be an awful lot of disgruntled Labour votes in England up for grabs. The tories may lose some votes to UKIP, but not half as many as Labour will.
So, a minority, right-wing tory government, propped up by a sizeable UKIP grouping with a splash of the usual ulster bigots for good measure seems to be an ever increasing possibility. If that does not terrify you, then nothing will.
Rev, I’m not sure how you’re managing to keep anything straight in this madness, but heroic effort yet again. My napper is just about ready to burst jumping from feed to feed and channel to channel.
Dear God, they’re utterly insane. Mounting a coup at this time is so far beyond simple negligence, its dereliction of duty and responsibility on a galactic scale. FFS! This is a constitutional and economic crisis on a near unprecedented scale in this era and these fuckwits pick this time to bring out the daggers? Westminster is welcome to them and my heart goes out to their constituents and the folk in England looking for ANY kind of leadership right now, never mind progressive and responsible.
Only one question to ask our own population right about now?
Are we feeling better together yet?
Is 80% of the Parliamentary Labour Party so scared of what Chilcot will reveal, and of what Jeremy Corbyn will do with the revelations, that they will do almost anything to get rid of him before it comes out?
Including committing collective hari-kari.
Surely they must have more than an inkling of what is in it. In that case, it’s going to be quite a report. Maybe New Labour has reached the point of no return. They may think they’re on the brink when in fact they already over it and in free fall. … Lemmings down the cliff … over and out, bye bye.
Could this implosion finally free the Labour Party in Scotland from Westminster control, once and for all? Dugdale is completely inconsistent and unreliable, and always likely to backtrack on everything. But she does now seem to envisage a Federal UK, with the Union becoming so loose that some parts (countries) in the Federation could be EU members while others would not.
Surely completely unworkable, but the fact that she suggested it is to be welcomed. In the unlikely event that the EU did offer that Federal solution during the forthcoming negotiations, and the UK government still refused it, Nicola Sturgeon would be fully justified in calling Indyref2 (having exhausted the alternatives). She might even win Labour support for independence. How could Dugdale refuse such support – except of course by being inconsistent, unreliable and backtracking on everything?
It is significant that Schultz of the European Parliament (whose name I may be mis-spelling), after talking with Nicola Sturgeon earlier today, said simply ‘I listened and I learned a lot.’ That is very positive. We should not kid ourselves that Europeans, even highly educated and intelligent ones in position of considerable, know anything about what Scotland is, including its constitutional position within the UK. They have a lot to learn about us (and even about what the UK really is, and how its component parts fit – or do not fit! – with each other). NS is getting her foot in the door at the right moment.
Scotland should take advantage of this chaos there may never be a better opportunity. I do not recall in my adult life a time when the government and opposition were in such disarray and I can’t see it happening again. The time is now.
If it wasn’t such a UKOK catastrofuck, it would be funny
FT says
Brexit backers hit by big losses on company shares
Business leaders who were among the biggest donors to the Leave campaign have had almost £500m wiped off their holdings in quoted companies as stock markets have tumbled in the days since the EU referendum.
Peter Hargreaves, who founded financial adviser Hargreaves Lansdown and was the second-largest donor to the Leave campaign has been the biggest loser. His 32 per cent stake in the group fell by about £400m in the days after the referendum — somewhat overshadowing the £3.2m he contributed to the Leave cause — as Hargreaves’ share price dropped. A rebound reduced his paper losses to about £330m by Wednesday morning.
Tim Martin, chairman and founder of pub group JD Wetherspoon, Peter Cruddas, who has a 62 per cent stake in spread betting firm CMC Markets and Next chief executive Lord Wolfson were also nursing large losses.
Mr Martin’s 30 per cent holding in the Wetherspoon pub group was worth almost £30m less by Wednesday. Mr Martin was a vocal supporter of the Leave cause, donating at least £224,000, and encouraging his customers to back the campaign.
Excellent! We will need this to go with the WBB. Any No voter who proclaims socialism needs to join hands, show them this.
Be under no illusion, they will lash Scotland to the front of this sinking rust bucket, as they continue to hole the structure below.
Those Remainers down south are already adopting memes from our Indy campaign. They are the 48%. Wait till the Leavers point out its lower than that when you remove Scotland. The Leavers are fighting back big time, with memes of WW2 soldiers, saying these people did not steal your future, they fought to give it to you.
I’ve almost retired from FB, because it’s just voyeuristic now, and my party will be gearing up soon.
Have to laugh at the EU statement debate just now. They are all EU experts now, telling the world all the monies that will be lost in grants, and tariffs will be applied.
Of course a Tory pops up and asks Cameron – did you detect any regret that they did not give us better concessions.
What a stinking, heaving, arrogant cesspool.
The Labour leadership coup was on from the moment Corbyn was elected (McTernan certainly (allegedly) promoting it in the background after voicing it openly). It was only ever going to be a matter of when an appropriate excuse came up to set the coup wheels in motion.
That the Brexit vote was chosen as their ‘appropriate excuse’ just shows how desperate the plotters were to get started, if you will.
The Blairite coup plotters are a shameful bunch of self-seeking, fuck-the-electorate, careerist scum.
So then, goodbye Labour, and thanks for the fuck-all you did, at least in Scotland.
Labour Blairites: “We had to destroy the party to save it.”….
Great summation of the current problems of hoping for a Labour party opposition.
One minor thing. Wrong suicide squad. More like the that of the Judea Peoples Front turning up at Brians crucifixation
Jake,
Was it half-hearted or was it just not reported?
link to twitter.com
Murray knifing JC was a really cruellest cut thingee, considering JC had the big pud on the House front bench seated right beside him at every Prime Minster’s Question Time. Sneaky shit doesn’t come close.
Rev, even if the Tories wanted to call an early GE would they get the two thirds majority they’d required under the Fixed Term Parliament Act to allow them to do so? That would require a large portion of the current opposition to agree to it. Would the Labour ‘rebels’ vote to put thier seats at risk?
It is beginning to look like every country in the world wants Scotland to be Independent except England.
“Those whom the Gods would destroy…….”
I know its an old, worn out cliché, but it’s the only explanation for the current madness afflicting the British establishment.
And where is the Queen? Why is she keeping schtum? HM should be taking control at this stage. At the first sign of trouble with the racist attacks etc after the Brexit vote, the Queen should have been on the screens condemning it, ordering the nasties to stop (not in her name) and assuring all people in the UK that they are welcome here. Regardless of what the government or her advisers said, she should take control – the BritNats will “obey” her and lay down their arms. If she cant even do that, then what do we pay her for?
Caught in the headlights? Or perhaps something darker. The Royal silence is deafening.
Brand New Labour coming soon, somewhere down the line.
The mind boggles at the political farce playing out right now.
In another GE what chance a clean sweep for SNP Scotia next time around? Liars beware.
Apologies for quite a few grammatical mistakes in the above post. The most important was probably to have left out the word ‘responsibility’ in the sentence saying that we ‘should not kid ourselves that Europeans, even highly educated and intelligent ones in positions of considerable RESPONSIBILITY, know anything about what Scotland is …’
Move to the bottom of class … Or, if already there, proceed to the corner … !
Heedtracker: “Murray knifing JC cruellest cut considering JC had the big pud on the front bench seated right beside him”
And Kezia kicked him off the buss too… they’re awe feart of losin’ their jobs come the next Tory General Election.
More here: link to wp.me
If the only tool you have is a hammer, then everything starts to look like a nail.
I count myself lucky to have avoided the burden reflected in this piece, of looking at the world through a filter that presents such an angry and frightening environment to the author. Democracy by its nature is subject to the ebb and flow of opinion between groups and factions within its constituencies and never delivers the aspirations of all its participants. Vive la difference.
Parliamentary democracy delivers better long term outcomes for the vast majority of citizens than referendums do. Referendums tend to reflect binary and marginal splits in a population and are often used by political leaders to justify otherwise unjustifiable actions without sound evidential base. These types of differences are better moderated and resolved within a parliamentary system and in slower time.
I think, although it may be debateable, that if WM refuses to acknowledge the referendum result, the UK may be in a position of failing to meet EU membership criteria.
Democracy is a fundamental requirement and applicants which do not demonstrate compliance with the democratic process fail at initial screening.
Of course the EU, famously, has no established expulsion protocol, however, there are measures they might take which could force the UK out. No council or parliament access, fines, possibly even unilateral rebate or contribution adjustments.
I wonder what view the ECtHR or the ECJ would take to the inevitable Leave campaign supplication?
I think the best they can do is to seek another mandate by either election or referendum.
I am just enjoying the absolute chaos in the two main unionist parties.
They have created a complete mess in England UK as a result of this EU referendum, and I doubt any of them
have the faintest a clue as to how they can sort things out.
Good analysis Rev.
I personally would have put Chilcot right up there as one of the main reasons this is happening.
Corbyn has stated that Blair should be tried as a war criminal if the report is that bad. Most of the PLP are still beholden to Blair and many of those that orchestrated the coup against Corbyn voted for the war in Iraq and the bombing of Syria.
The report is going to be debated in Parliament, the leader or ‘appointed speaker’ from the Labour Party will have to make an official response. If Corbyn were to stand up and say Blair is a war criminal and should be tried it would be sensational, the Labour Party as it stands is trying to stop that response being made by Corbyn. They would much rather someone like Hillary Benn made it.
Even yesterday Alistair Campbell let slip when he claimed that ‘Corbyn must be gone in two weeks’ which fits in perfectly with the debate in Westminster.
For fcuk sake, Rev this is insane.
I’m with those who believe that IndyRef2 should take place this year.
Right now, the enemy is in total disarray, splitting into different factions on a daily basis.
It is a perfect storm of Westminster and British Establishment fuckwittery, which may never occur again.
Before the enemy regroups, let’s have IndyRef2 – we may not have a better opportunity.
NB. Having said all that, I still put my full trust in Nicola Sturgeon to know when the timing is right, whenever that may be. She has been, and is a leader par excellence. We Scots are extremely fortunate to have her as our First Minister at this time in our history.
So then, I will curb my impatience until such a time, but as soon as Nicola Sturgeon gives the call… it’ll be on, very, very ON!
@Martin Richmond
So the elected representatives in Westminster hold supremacy over a referendum? A fair enough argument and one which was used for decades in Scotland until the SNP came to power.
Assuming that idea regains currency, let me see now, how many pro indy MPs does Scotland have, oh yes, 56 out of 59 I believe.
Oh and I agree, the Rev has nailed more than the rest of the MSM put together over the past 4 years.
Grouse Beater says:
29 June, 2016 at 1:29 pm
Heedtracker: “Murray knifing JC cruellest cut considering JC had the big pud on the front bench seated right beside him”
And Kezia kicked him off the buss too… they’re awe feart of losin’ their jobs come the next Tory General Election
It’s like England/Iceland Euro 2016. Hard to watch. Say Blair and Brownite red tories do decide to spin of into the all new and exciting NEW Labour, who’d vote for them?
Lefties will hate them for destroying the Labour party and using Brexit to do their worst just makes them all even more ghastly. Blue tories wont bother with them.
Lest face facts. SLab dudes like Murray are only MP’s because Morningside tories had no other choice. So he might have a safe seat now but Scotland’s nearly away. A sneaky thick shit.
Small skirmishes erupt in ‘Scottish’ labour land (no names quoted)
regarding Corbyn and the ex-Sec of State for Scotland’s resignation.
Who are all these un-named powerful people in the ‘Scottish’ labour party
link to archive.is
If Yoon polls are showing support for Independence in fifties, you can bet your bottom Dollar that the true figure is probably over 60 percent.
Oh and Kezia Dugdale made a complete hash of yesterday with her ‘if I lost 80%’ etc.
The reverse is true.
The last time the PLP had to actually vote on Corbyn was during the party election. Corbyn received the nomination from 36 Labour MP’s.
Yesterday, 40 Labour MP’s voted in his favour, so he makes a gain of 4 votes or @ 13%.
The rest of the votes he never had in the first place, and as far as I’m aware you can’t lose something you don’t have unless the laws of physics have changed overnight, so Dugdale’s claim of ‘losing 80% of the support of MP’s is absolute shite.
Please someone ask Dugdale on Twitter how you can lose something you never had ?
On the upside, worldwide shares in popcorn futures are going through the roof.
Hard to comprehend the levels of stupidity within the Labour party. What on earth made the rebels think that this was a good idea? The mind boggles.
Then again this was the same party that game up with Milliband’s megalith and thought that that was a good idea.
Who all thinks Blair had a hand in orchestrating all this latest strife in the Labour Party prior to Chilcot being released – or is it just me?
Scotland has been ridiculed, mocked, denigrated, dismissed and demoralised year after year by THESE people for my entire life and when challenged on it mocked again and referred to as banter and if challenged further we are wingeing Jocks with no sense of humour and there’s no need to be antagonistic
England rules by weight of numbers, not democracy, Scotland never signed up to be ruled we signed up to be United and then England changed the rules to dictatorship by bending and breaking every rule in their favour in order to dominate, totally
The rules have always been Scotland is free to exercise democracy until the UK doesn’t like it then The UK says democracy is what WE say it is whether Scotland likes it or not
These are the people to whom Stu’s article refers and we can all see them in all their undemocratic glory “The King is dead long live the King” except it doesn’t really matter in England if they die or not they immediately pop up in the House of Lords or become commentaters for the corrupt media and still get to have more say over Scotland than we do
When a newsreader like Kaye Burley can have an affect on Scottish politics there’s something hugely wrong with the system that empowers folk in another country elected or not to be considered important enough to be listened to
Even in Scotland we suffer from the same problem when a morning chat show womans opinion counts, or an ex rugby player is considered an authority on politics, yet when our own elected First Minister given authority to act for us is derided by those same people it’s acceptable behaviour and should be listened to
Scotland’s habit of dimissing it’s own in favour of others has been entrenched and driven in to us for years and helped and assisted by those very politicians in London we’re watching now, is there anybody left in Scotland in any doubt as to what should happen next and who should make it happen
England is conducting an incestuous relationship with itself and the resulting inbred idiocy of the politicians it has produced is of their own making, yet still there are people in Scotland prepared to “wait and see whit happens”
So far nothing has, it just keeps getting worse and in slow motion we’re all watching it and the folk who are still waiting for the idiots to sort it out are even more stupid than the idiots
Time to get a grip Scotland
Major,
you were looking for an article the other day and i posted it but it was at the bottom of the thread so you may have missed it.
“The Scots were never big enough to break the Union. That’s always been a job for the English.”
link to nationalcollective.com
I notice the unionists mantra about the EU referendum appears to be accept the result and move on.
Everything you need in that one article above to prove that “Labour” do not believe in democracy – Red Tories right enough!
Other than that i have absolutely no interest in the inner workings of a disgraceful and shameful political party devouring itself from the inside out.
I think they’re suffering from a political necrotising fasciitis.
The sooner the patient has been devoured the sooner we rejoice.
Most of the ex Shadow cabinet are embroiled up to their necks in the illegal war and Chilcott. They are a disgrace. Corbyn has more courage and honesty than any of them. He had watch taking a walk in the Park perhaps that is why the police guard has increased. Nothing is beyond Blair or Brown. The innocent, vulnerable lives that gave bed lost for their personal gain. If Corbyn was to stand up and declare Blair a war criminal. It would save the Labour Party in England.
Brown peddling more of his lies. Who elected or asked him. The mass murdering, banker fraudster. How much has he cost £Trns. A public disgrace.
There are three Labour parties.
The voters.
The activists.
The elected representatives.
The overlap in views, aspirations, fears, class, policies, and attitudes of these three groups is an issue.
The same applies to all parties, most of the time. However the disconnect in the SNP is minimal, in Labour it has been allowed to drift enormously over the last 20 years,
The activists are only a tiny subset of the voters. Activists and politicians now seem to be world’s apart. Politicians no long take on board the views and concerns of their voters.
No one could now pull those disparate groups back together. Their current single entity status is doomed.
@Jimbo
Please Sir! Me!
Said as much on a previous thread yesterday. Blairites trying their best to effect any fall out.
Jeremy says “It’s the possibility of the clink if he’s taken to court and found guilty”
PS:
New Poll stuff.
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
link to archive.is
I wonder if this has more to do with the Chilcot Report than anything else. The right of the labour party will do anything to protect there mentor.
UKOK ex-pat panicking is pretty sad too.
FT again.
No Brexit, please, we’re British: expats try to secure life in EU
Large numbers of expat Britons live in the Dordogne, France, but some fear for their place post-Brexit
The 1.2m British expatriates living in EU countries face losing the right to stay in their properties year-round as well as the ability to work visa-free, lawyers and property experts say
But Mr Peretz warned that unless the UK agreed to allow EU nationals to continue living in Britain after Brexit, a UK expat’s position would “become exactly the same as [that of] an American or an Argentine”.
He added: “Anyone British who is in a position to get citizenship of another EU country, through marriage or investment, would be well advised to do so.”
WTF did Leave votes think would happen?
Craig Murray has interesting stuff to say about Chilcott and Peter Oborne’s book “Not the Chilcott Report”:
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Sorry if that link doesn’t work or gets me killed with hammers.
I rather suspect the UK’s perfect storm has a further depression moving in from the Middle East and bringing more storms and unsettled conditions next week.
Fears are growing about a global shortage of popcorn.
@Dr. Jim
Now you sound like Nigel Farage.
I can see the point in Scotland not bothering with MPs in Westminster, I can see the point in not allowing Scots the vote, I can see the point in not having a National Football Team, and I can see the point in not calling us a Country,when Colony seems to fit the bill better.
Our MPs are treated with contempt by all parties in Westminster and by every form of UK media that there is.
Why pretend that a Scots vote actually achieves anything?
If we look at the EU referendum, and propose that Every Single Scottish Vote was for Remain, i.e. 0% Leave votes, do you know what, you would still be leaving the EU.
In political history, Scottish votes have influenced the result of an election only once in over 300 years.
Do you think that reasonable or fair, or we all want someone from a neighbouring country to force their will on our will, even if we are 100% against their proposals?
Anyone watching the Euro Football event, can see the passion that the Icelandic team have in representing their country. Is it because they jailed their corrupt bankers and sacked their corrupt politicians before clearing their debts as a nation in unison?
I can remember the last time Scotland players rolled up their sleeves and fought like that for their colony?
Perhaps if all of our token, pretend “powers” were removed, more Scots would fight, or at least shout out, in hope of standing on its own 2 feet by taking control over its own affairs.
Wasn’t burying Brexit the whole point?
Yet the “rebels” chose instead to publicly quit one-by-one over a period of several days, ensuring that the story stayed in the news all weekend rather than the chaos of Brexit.
Things moving a pace.
Merkel and Hollande say they will remove ‘passporting’ from UK banks taking away their right to work freely in EU. The main beneficiaries would be the French who want to see Paris as the financial centre of Europe.
Also Spain PM says in up out Scotland out. A bit disgruntled over Catalonia.
Oh well. It’s getting interesting.
FT again!
EU leaders have given their strongest signal yet that Britain will not be allowed to cherry pick its new relationship with the bloc, warning that it will not relent on the rules for access to its internal market.
Speaking after EU leaders met for the first time as a 27 member bloc in Brussels today, European Council president Donald Tusk said there would be “no single market a la carte”.
He said leaders made it “crystal clear” that Britain would have to accept all of the four sacrosanct rules guarding the free movement of people, labour, capital and goods if it wishes to access the single market.
This dashes hopes from the like of Boris Johnson, leading ‘Leave’ MP.”
My Slovene girlfriend will have kittens, statesman like kittens.
Adam Tomkins MSP Retweeted
nigel biggar ?@NigelBiggar 6h
nigel biggar Retweeted Adam Tomkins MSP
For a statesmanlike Unionist contribution to Scottish debate about Brexit, see Adam Tomkins:
Bonjour Ailes, does anybuddy remember this tune from yester-years?
‘En passant par la Lorraine‘
link to youtube.com
Nice hat.. avec mes sabots 🙂
The Herald (whose front page this morning was as bad as the Mail and Express in denigrating our First Minster’s attempt to salvage something from the Brexit wreckage) reports on Labour establishment trying to conjure up support for Ian Murray after he was savaged by many ordinary party members over his disloyalty. link to archive.is
Murray’s office was closed on Tuesday afternoon when angry party members in Edinburgh demonstrated outside his constituency office.
Strangely this was not reported by the BBC or by the local press who normally hang on his every word.
Why is there no coverage by the BBC / MSM on orchestration of the Blairite coup to topple Corbyn.
An exclusive investigation by The Canary reveals that the current Labour ‘coup’ being instigated against Jeremy Corbyn appears to have been orchestrated by a PR company where Tony Blair’s arch spin-doctor, Alastair Campbell, is a senior advisor.
He sits alongside several other figures, all of whom have direct links to the centre-right of the Labour party, and the Fabians at Portland Communications.
Portland Communications is a political consultancy and public relations agency set up in 2001 by Tim Allan, a former adviser to Tony Blair and director of communications at BSkyB.
One of the masterminds is Gregor Poynton partner of former Labour MP Gemma Doyle.
link to thecanary.co
Survation, 24th-28th June
Yes 53% (+5)
No 47% (-5)
Just a thought … do these polling companies ask 16-17 year olds, or do they have ‘standard sampling’ of over 18s?
Suppose the datasets answer that question.
The English and their skewed figures suggest that Scotland is subsidised by them.
We Scots say that no, in each of the last 35 years, Scotland has subsidised them.
Rather than argue, why doesn’t those that control the UK not agree to let Scotland take control of all the money that it raises and spend only what that budget allows.
We would then see who the devious liars are.
Come on you No voters, do you actually think that England is fighting to keep subsidising you with their money?
Not on your Life!
They love us so much that they tried to steal £7 Billion from Scotland’s budget over the next 10 years.
I can and will do without that kind of love thankyou!
Brexit gave me the opportunity to air my pro-SNP, pro-independence views last night with some friends who clearly have never given any serious thought to the future of this country.
One was dismissive of what I said. She was frankly astonished. She does not know how competent and alert the leadership of the SNP is. She commented on the poverty of debate at Holyrood. I’m inclined to agree – the opposition is embarrassingly inept. She does not see Scotland’s potential. She’s comfortably off, she’s English, she’s of a certain age. She laughed rather nervously, shook her head and wouldn’t really engage.
The other one listened attentively and asked some pertinent questions. My final remarks were rather like the Rev’s conclusions – unless independence, then with a Labour Party that is finished, we face the prospect of generations of hellish right-wing, anti-Scottish government from Westminster that will continue to asset-strip.
I could have done with a couple of Wee Black Books to hand.
I had to shut up at that point since the rest of the company were very obviously changing the subject. I’ve crossed swords with another one of them during the referendum of 2014 – also English, funnily enough – who didn’t much like my SNP badge and who ‘pitied me’. Judging by other stupid things he said to me, Project Fear had got to him in several ways.
I’ve definitely sown some seeds though. Each of us must do our bit. It’s getting easier.
Martin Richmond says:
29 June, 2016 at 2:02 pm
@Dr. Jim
Now you sound like Nigel Farage.
_______________________
Is that you, sensible Mazda whoore?
So 4% of the UK Independence Party voted against UK independence from Europe?
Ummm…..
Love that picture in the article above, between numbers 5 & 6.
Every spook monitoring this site just shit themselves, screaming how did that Campbell B@$t@£D get his hands on my picture?
link to wingsoverscotland.com
I’ve already left in the taxi, i’ll get my coat later!
🙂
Jeremy Corbyn did what I would have done if in his place during the Brexit referendum: Calmly position himself to remain in the EU, no more, no less. Everyone seems to have forgotten that the Brexit referendum was a Tory party V Tory party fight, a public free-for-all where everyone was invited to roll up their sleeves and pile in. Why should he help any Tory? This is especially true after the lessons learned for Labour during Indyref.
I’m genuinely unsure as to whether the Blairite MPs have any self awareness at all when they talk of putting the party and country first while trying to oust JC at this historic moment.
Lol
You can’t have a Referedum before the terms are set out. Contribution levels etc. That is what they are doing.
The last thing Westminster or the EU wants is Scotland or NI out. That would increase the contagion. Make it even worse. They offered a deal on full FFA/Home Rule and reneged. So a Independence Referendum2 it will be. NI has fuller FFA , more powers, than Scotland. It is subsidised from Westminster but could reunite. NI gets Norwegian levels of funding.
Brown is lying on Trade. No good with figures. Scotland exports go to EU and worldwide but the goods go through London because Thatcher centralised transport through London (congestion) Built 26 miles of Tilbury Docks and Canary Wharf (secretly) with Oil revenues. They could be included in the Trade figures. There are alternative routes. Salmond to China, whisky, and goods to Asia, US. Oil worldwide, fuel etc. A high percentage goes overseas.
If England did not trade with Scotland. The prices for goods would increase or there would be shortages in the rest of the UK. Scotland has a high trading position.
Fishing and beef industry export to EU. Fisherman/farmers would have more difficulties exporting to EU markets, Important customers. They need EU migrant workers.
A Norwegian type trade deal with the EU would cost more and make costs higher and more difficult with less control. It is less appropriate for Scotland. Different trading conditions. Different geographical positions.
We need a oscar red carpet for Angela Eagle [ he did,nt reply to my email] greeting.
and another blue carpet for Anny Soubry { my 84 yr old mother was greeting on friday ] {quick recovery for her children at Uni}.
naebodys buying your false faced lies ,yous can huff n puff awe you,s want.
I went past Ian Murray’s office on Tuesday at about 1.40pm. There was no one outside and the main door appeared to be open.
In other news: US bank JP Morgan has said it now expects Scotland to vote for independence and introduce its own currency before Britain leaves the European Union in 2019.
link to archive.is
ScottiDog,
I think for Rajoy it’s more about Gib.
If there were some daft ‘federal’ solution whereby we stay in the EU and the UK, it would apply to Gib as well.
He is already going for joint sovereignty if they want to stay in.
There is a key lesson from what’s happening among Tories at present following the EU referendum, namely lots of different views emerging on what voters for Brexit actually wanted, what leading Brexit campaigners actually promised; and what Brexit really means anyway!
Lots of wriggle room is now appearing. And this is before the debates on the terms of exit get started in Parliament on the detail to agree a way forward that is acceptable to a sufficient majority of (English) MPs.
Indyref1 was influenced by a vague Vow, the promises then diluted through the Smith Commission and legislation pushed through by a UK Government with no regard to amendments tabled by the majority party in Scotland.
My conclusion is that when Indyref2 comes along, anyone tempted by some intermediate solution (e.g. a newly framed devomax, a federation or some UK-sanctioned associate status in the EU) should reflect on how little we can trust a Westminster government and parliament to deliver.
Anything short of the clarity of full independent status (with an EU relationship, should we wish one, that is based on terms that Scotland’s government negotiates) leaves far too much room for backtracking and for an unsatisfactory Westminster fudge post-referendum.
This barchart nicely illustrates Abe Lincoln’s famous saying. (You do wonder in particular what on earth the 4% of kippers voting Remain were thinking!)
What effect will Labour’s current turmoil have on their North British Accounting Unit? If it wasn’t for the London purse-strings, you would think they would surely be better off declaring UDI themselves. Even they are not that fu***ed up. (Which is saying something.)
What price El Gordo’s Vow-on-steroids now? Is anybody noticing?
McTernan was always going to work behind the scenes to destroy Corbyn. He extols Tony Blair.
Must attract the tory vote he says.
A bout a year on from that. Seems like his plan is either going to work or blow up in his face.
link to youtube.com
Our old friend Christ Deerin has just joined the Labour party ‘to save it’ , in his words
Just breaking. Juncker and ministers will have talks with Scotland about remaining in EU .”They have won the right to be heard”
That fracking watter must hiv goat intae londinioums watter system,its cracking in it lol.
The next Referendum should have a residential qualification. 2/3years.
Westminster chooses how Scotland revenues are spent not the people in Scotland. Trident/illegal, wars, tax evasion and banking fraud. No representation without representation.
How can anyone speak to them when they will not listen. They never have listened. Scotland is out voted 10/1. They lie and keep information secret under the Official Secrets Act and commit illegal Acts. Control the MSM. Owned by tax evading non Doms. Westminster in undemocratic and has failed the people because of their criminality. They made the Law, break the Law and are above the Law.
Ken500,
But England is going to be the new Singapore, and fully open to trade with the whole world. So the Brexiteers assure us. (Although they haven’t quite worked out an iota of the tricky details yet.) Including with an independent Scotland, one would presume. They’re going to need our oil and electricity, after all.
Hang in there Jeremy. The longer this witch-hunt goes on the more obvious it becomes who’s panicking.
The very fact that the man stood up with all those knives in his back and managed to rub Tory faces in shameful child poverty stats sets him in a class apart from the scum baying for his blood.
WHY WORRY, NO HURRY.
There will not be one Unionist politician at Westminster who is not aware of the fact that England is in complete political disarray, while at the same time Scotland is totally organised. With Independence looking more and more likely for Scotland in the near future, the already shaken British Establishment will know real fear.
The reason behind that fear, is that the UK/England will survive Brexit, but it will not survive Scottish Independence.
It is the prospect of independence for Scotland that strikes terror into Unionist hearts, which is why Ruthie will never stop talking about it. Nothing makes Unionist No voters more afraid than Independence, which is the way the Establishment wants them to be. Control by London through constant injections of fear into the electorate .
So what can we expect from the Unionist parties and from the Establishment’s propaganda outlets, the BBC in particular.
With their usual devious calculations, Westminster is already upping the propaganda war against Nicola, the Scottish Government and the SNP. For the Tories, the EU referendum is over and the consequences will be treated as just business as usual. ‘Why worry, no hurry,’ they will say.
It is right that Nicola visits with European leaders, to make contact and forge friendships and to state the case for Scotland in the EU. But this is an interim measure and of itself will not lead to Scotland’s entry to the EU in its own right. In that context, focusing on the EU as a point of remedy is a distraction. The main event remains achieving Independence. The point of Nicola’s strategy in going to the EU is to build consensus and political unity here at home in Scotland. When that is accomplished, the push for Independence can begin.
The focus of the English strategy will be to attack the consensus in Scotland for membership of the EU as it consolidates. To do this Westminster will attempt, perhaps among other measures, to secure a trade deal with the EU so that the Unionists can say to Scots ‘you don’t need to go into the EU, for the UK already has the trade deal you want’. This explains why Cameron wants a trade agreement first before he triggers article 50.
This won’t be over quickly, but we may very well be in the end-game.
Poor JC. Not quite the Passion but loads and loads of Judas’s, Judasers, Judasi?
link to savinglabour.com
@Bob Mack, good news, have you got a link?
Bob Mack@ 14:28
YES!
The Daily Heil and The Daily Slowtrain will have to swallow their vile headlines now.
Brilliant!
….and the flying pig spotted the buffalo rider,stroking the orange walker in her pocket….
‘All out and the last one’s a duck’ she purred.
Jackanory….jacka….oh,it’s no…
@jimnarlene,
Sorry can’ t do links,but it was on France 24 and also on sky news Flash.
@Bob Mack, no problem, will have a wee look around…still good news.
link to uk.reuters.com
“JP Morgan … now expects Scotland to vote for independence and introduce its own currency before Britain leaves the European Union in 2019.”
To maintain stable markets, at some point there may be international pressure for Scotland to ‘get on with it’ and become independent.
It would be nice to think pressure was also brought on London suggesting they don’t interfere this time!
Wishful thinking?
There’s always the Army. Maybe martial law is better. I’m not joking.
A week today the Chilcot report will be published!
I wonder if it will be on the front pages or lost behind stories about Brexit,the melt down of the Labour Party and the breaking up of Britain.
What about all the Tory election fraud is that no longer of interest?
I have a feeling that independence won’t come before Brexit and that Scotland will have to reapply for EU membership. It’s just the timing, folks – many old NO voters are very worried right now but they are still very stubborn. Of course EU nationals, young voters and middleclass fowk wi pensions/business interests etc may come on board in sufficient numbers but the pensioners remain a very tough nut to crack. And as you know they vote in large numbers. No blame whatsoever, it’s just a new world is emerging and they stubbornly cling onto the old certainties (even though these are disappearing faster than snaw off a dyke). Some will come round, but will enough in time? Hard to say.
Many who voted leave will have to endure the coming shitstorm before they finally realise Scotland needs to leave the UK and rejoin the world.
@Bob Mack
Aye the shortbread Auntie web site has the story but when you archive it it comes up with a different slant from a previous version of Nicola snubbed.
Labour party MP on sky screaming for Corbyn to go because the WM MPs are correct and the labour party card holders are wrong.
Labour MPs being abused on-line she says…Ian Murray cited.
The peasants are revolting democracy at risk 🙂 …were right and Jeremy must go It’s the best for the party and the country.
I see Brexit negotiations are to be a re-run of the Great British Bake-off.
link to twitter.com
I’m sure the EU will very impressed with the level of debate.
Can we send some WBB to those lovely people in the EU parliament?
It would give them something to read when they are having a coffee 😉
Just seen this on WOS Twitter:
“Lots of forthright views from Alistair Darling at the #CFOAgenda y/day, inc. Labour will be ‘annihilated’ at polls if Corbyn stays in charge”
Well, Badger, i see things very differently, who the frack is going to waste a vote on a party that shits on their democratically elected leader if a small group of self-servers object to that leader?
Dr NO knows no other SLab MP, to be fair. Whatever you say about Ian Murray, he certainly looks like he’s a grafter, not in the least.
Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 1h1 hour ago Newcastle Upon Tyne, England
I can believe that people are talking about deselecting Scotland’s hardest working MP.
Sturgeon to meet Juncker et al @ 15:00 BST (~10 min. time as I post this), according to France24.
Spain is opposed to EU talks with Scotland. (Hmm, I wonder why…?)
Seems to me that several years ago Labour reached the organisational state referred to as a ‘Psychic Prison’. The Labour right wing’s neurosis about being in power is threatening complete extinction: right wingers appear to fail to see the disconnect between themselves and the membership, over whom they wish to dominate (who cares about leadership election rules – WATP). Consequently, Labour members finally decided enough was/is enough. In Scotland they could vote SNP, in England……….they can vote UKIP (which many might) ………..or put up a last stand. Good luck to those who are at least fighting for their Party. The outcome doesn’t look good – there doesn’t appear to be any collaborative remedial actions – it appears to be a fight to the death.
Ian,
Child poverty a disgrace, it doesn’t need to be like that.
Compare this with UK income figures.
link to dutchnews.nl
Oh, and the steel is all the fault they dastardly chinese, eh?
link to dutchnews.nl
We are close to getting Blair on trial for war crimes, watching the anti-Scotland parties disintegrate, and getting independence.
Who would have thought this 6 weeks ago.
Time for strong nerves and decisive action. 🙂
link to bbc.co.uk
Spain’s no! BBC vote SLab Scotland in at the kill.
FT says
“If Scotland had voted for separation in 2014 the path to EU membership would have been slow. While the outcome would have been inevitable, countries with their own separatist movements, notably Spain but also perhaps Belgium and Italy, would probably have been obstructive.
Now, Scottish accession would be greeted with open arms.”
Seems that though not wishing to interfere in UK politics ,Mr Juncker and Mr Tusk feel that Scotland has won the right to be heard in Brussels. This is a goer.
The Spanish foreign minister is none too happy at this development but I think the depth of pro Scottish feeling may prevail.
This is more positive than I could have hoped for. Great news that they would even listen to our small country regardless.
I have thought, for a while now that just like USA, the two party system is in fact a one party system.
just each taking turns to implement right wing policies, reinforced today by David Cameron and msm almost maniacal and pathetically desperate attempts to oust JC.
I have no love for Labour, but I hope he sticks to his guns as you say Rev and wins his party back.
BBC vote SLab Scotland says
Spain’s acting prime minister has said he is “extremely against” the EU negotiating potential membership for Scotland.
Mariano Rajoy said he “believes everyone is against it” and that “if the UK leave, Scotland leaves”.
He was speaking as Nicola Sturgeon held a series of meetings with senior EU officials in Brussels.
It’d be interesting to know what EU makes of a BBC that relentlessly monsters all things FM Sturgeon, SNP and particularly Scotland in the EU.
But we’ll never know because the great UKOK BBC lie machine wont tell us.
Luigi @ 14:45,
More doom-and-gloom. =sigh= (You’re not fighting a rearguard action for Leave in Scotland, are you, by any chance?)
According to Curtice yesterday, early polls already show indy ahead, and the implications of Brexit have hardly started to sink in yet.
There is no way we will be out for another 2 years at the very least, and more if the Brexiteers have their way. Plenty of time to win over enough people, even without the aged duds.
If the current crisis comes to a head, indy may be closer than any of us currently think.
BBC 24 hr News
Have the story and interview on Sturgeon getting her say in Brussels but quoting the Spanish reaction to dampen down things so as not to alarm the viewers darn Sarf.
Polls going towards YES mentioned but a dismal looking reporter kept harping on about a long way to go and huge risks for Sturgeon etc etc if she goes Indy2.
Looks like porridge again tomorrow.
Brussels on again now.
link to bbc.co.uk
Listening to feed back from the EU.
How long will it be before the Brexiteers, politicians and voters, realise and accept that there will be very little negotiation on the big items with the EU?
There will be a main offer, take it or leave it, plus some talks about minor details.
It is becoming probable that the main offer will be – pay contributions probably similar to the current net figure, allow free movement of EU citizens, give those citizens access to full public services while they are here, and you can have free trade and reciprocal movement.
This is not what most Leave voters expected!
As far as Scotland goes, the talk so far has been about trade. We will have to ask ourselves whether all the other benefits of EU full membership should be lost.
Concurrently, we also need to consider how much we wish to be ruled by WM, unbridled from the EU, and on a course for mid Atlantic neo liberalism.
@Bob Mack
Juncker: Scotland Has Won Right to Be Heard in Brussels
link to finance.yahoo.com
Robert J. Sutherland says:
Plenty of time to win over enough people, even without the aged duds
==========
You are not the first nor likely the last but I, for one, get pissed off with this kind of remark.
link to reuters.com
Reuters’ UK correspondent in London, William James, claims a poll in The Record on Sunday past shows a majority of Scots do not want a second referendum on Independence. The Record itself meanwhile shows 47% in favour and 41% against.
Even Reuters staff are sometimes rubbish at reporting the truth.
[…] The UK is currently a non-functioning democracy. The Prime Minister has handed in his notice and has no nominated successor. The leader of the Opposition has just been served with a vote of no confidence by 80% of his own MPs. Parliamentarians are openly discussing overturning the result of a democratic referendum. People are pretending that Angela Eagle is a credible future Prime Minister. […]
@ Valerie
Maybe that’s what @Martin Richmond the Arse would hope for but unlike Nigel the Nutcase who incidentally has never turned up for any of the committees he’s supposed to be on in the EU I am now and always have been a supporter of the EU faulty though it is but as a comparison to the UK, well there is no comparison, the UK sucks and has done in my entire life
As to Independence from the UK maybe I do have something in common with Mr Farage except the difference our friend @ Martin Richmond fails or chooses not to notice or accept is Scotland is a country and not a region of England so to be an Independent country then choose to co-operate with others is my aim whereas the UKIPPERS position is to be an Independent DICTATORSHIP answerable to nobody
I rest my nasty vile SNP case (I thank you)
Meanwhile, Radio Shortbread’s Mr know-all/fuck-all, Glen Campbell, was spelling out exactly what Mr Juncker will say & won’t say at the meeting with Nicola. Doubtless Campbell could even wax lyrical on Mr Juncker’s bowel movements if prompted & that the First Minister could have saved herself the trouble of a trip to Brussels by just consulting the Pacifc Quay font-of-knowledge, an establishment arse-licker who has made a very good living for himself by selling Scotland short at every opportunity.
Full independence from the UK should be Scotland’s only goal, no half way houses remember what happened in Ireland when they tried that route.
The British crown never lets go they still claim title to Ireland and even parts of France. Best way out for Scotland is right out.
i welcome the 53% yes poll, but it isnt enough, id encourage all of you to dig out your yes flags, join your local yes, lfi, wfi and ric groups and go to their next meetings, find them on facebook twitter etc
i dont know whether indyref2 will happen sooner or later, but it will happen. the sooner we reach the 60% mark the better, nicola may need to go sooner just to take this chance,
we need 60% asap to give her all of the options she needs
vote yes
Robert J. Sutherland says:
29 June, 2016 at 2:58 pm
Luigi @ 14:45,
More doom-and-gloom. =sigh= (You’re not fighting a rearguard action for Leave in Scotland, are you, by any chance?)
Not at all – I just don’t want to experience what I did on 19th September 2014 again. So many were telling us we were going to win – remember? I agree that things are changing so fast, people can barely keep up, and that’s the problem with cautious voters – if they can’t keep up they get left behind and we lose them.
I am a wee bit optimistic about our chances within two years, but very very slightly above 50:50. However, even if an indy Scotland had to renegotiate, say in 4-5 years time, I think we would get a fair deal because of the circumstances and (more importantly) our strategic and economic importance to Europe.
FT. Will the rest of EU take Rajoy’s dashing of our membership hopes?
“Spanish prime minister Mariano Rajoy has dashed Scottish hopes of retaining EU membership in the case of a British exit from the bloc, insisting that there could be no separate negotiations between Brussels and Edinburgh.
“If the United Kingdom leaves [the EU], so does Scotland,” he told a press conference in Brussels on Wednesday as first minister Nicola Sturgeon arrived for talks with Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker, reports Tobias Buck in Madrid.
“Scotland has no competences to negotiate with the EU. The Spanish government rejects any negotiation with anyone other than the United Kingdom”, said Mr Rajoy, currently acting prime minister of the country.
macnakamura,
I chose my words carefully. I did not write “aged” full stop. (Many, like myself, are in one category but not in the other.)
Listening to Brewer & Clegg of the DR just now. What a bunch of snivelling apologists for the failed RUK. BBC Scotland!, Clegg has the mentality of being brought up in a province. He can’t understand that some people can think for themselves and don’t need to run to London. He looks a worried man with the RoI now wanting to work with Scotland. Little ulsterlander view of thenworld is disintegrating
On the Juncker release? Spain harrumfing as usual because of the Catalonian angle (who knew?), but other than that, a pretty fair visit so far. 🙂
Hi Robert J,
Go easy on us oldies, I’m 73 and been a member of SNP since I was 16, I was for INDEPENDENCE then and I’m still for it. The main thing that we should be pointing out to those ‘oldies’ scared off by pensions etc have just witnessed what a lying bunch of tossers run Wasteminster, we must exploit all these lies that were repeated in the run-up to the EU Referendum and were well and truly exposed.
I know Robert many over 65’s were taken in but already they are saying that they got it wrong. So let’s convince the rest not condemn them.
Auld Rock
Tell you something, if Corbyn is hanging in there to see the Chilcott Report isn’t snuffed out and does light a fire under Tony Blair and Jack Straw etc, then he may be in for some serious vindication, and I rather suspect he’?l enjoy some delicious payback. I suppose the next question is what will be left of the Labour party to take notice.
Reuters did report the UN’s damning verdict on Human Rights in the UK, but its either removed or shunted down the batting order.
I think Spain will change their position when they reflect on things.
First, they will be on their own on this.
Second, the Scottish indy scenario now has even less repercussions for Catalunya than previously since Spain has no intention of exiting the EU.
Third, a continued access to Scottish fishing grounds, albeit on a curtailed basis, is better than none. Although this may be used illegally by Westminster to buy Spanish support as well.
One_Scot says:
29 June, 2016 at 1:24 pm
It is beginning to look like every country in the world wants Scotland to be Independent except England.
Well, apart from Scotland that is, who recently voted against it.
It is illegal under EU/International Law for Scotland to have to leave when it votes to stay in. The Referendum that Scotland did instigate is illegal under EU/International Law. There are no Laws under which the EU can expel a member. It would also set a bad precedent, which other EU member could lose recognition, when they votes to stay in. A bad precedent for the EU Constitution. Under EU Law States/countries have a right to self determination. Scotland has just determined it in the outcome of the vote.
Clegg and Brewer have talked themselves out of job. Brewer’s programme is already going. No audience, no programme. Best ignored.
@ Iain Taylor
“Maybe martial law is better.”
Stop that! Bloody heart attack you game me there. For a second there I hought you said marital law.
On’y kidding Mrs PC.
Mon the rEvolUtion!
Luigi,
I know only too well that feeling you mention, so I appreciate your caution. I would have counted myself among the more cautious also until now. But a re-entry negotiation in 4-5 years’ time is a very different thing from a continuation of existing membership. Probably an even worse case than in 2014, and I’m sure you wouldn’t want that either.
As Shakespeare put it:
“There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
is bound in shallows and in miseries”
Pity the poor voters of England, there is no one to vote for that deserves a vote.
Light relief:
Watch the EU parliament member behind Farage from yesterday’s sitting, doing the wanker sign with his hand as Farage speaks:
(It’s a clip from the DR, but not to the DR site…just the vid)
link to c.brightcove.com
Radio Five Live about to report on Spain’s rejection of Scotland’s bid to remain within EU.
Timing of events is now of the essence, Spain may oblect to a country of the UK being admitted but they could not in any way veto the admission of an independent country on the same grounds.
I do not have as many facts as the Government to enable a clear decision ,but we should be ready to “Go” at a moments notice.
Have’nt the Media got themselves all worked up about Northern Ireland very quickly, aweek ago they couldn’t have cared less about that area, now all of a sudden it’s all over the news
Well I suppose it helps them to have to talk less about Scotland and our FM being in Brussels where she has no right to be and it’ll all come to nothing because Scotland is useless and voted NO in the 2014 referendum so shut up and go away or I’ll hide under the duvet eh
Not that I’m cynical or anything about news agendas
Of course, if Scotland were to do something like Indyref2, and win, THEN it would have the standing to negotiate (vs chat informally, nothing binding, just making sure everyone is on the same page…). And the spanish issue is that Catal wants to leave in the constitutionally wrong manner. So, theres a whole other way to read this : hurry up Jock, do it but do it RIGHT
I think we need to get yes2 moving and get a war chest in place
What to do about the BBC though
Tokyo kay was scaring immigrants this morning
Always saying I am sure you will be ok but no mention of the Australian family that had to up sticks when Westminster changes the rules
BBC will be on full war footing for a yes2
Rajoy doesn’t have a majority in his own corrupt Parliament. He is speaking without the support of his own Parliamentary members or the EU. Rajoy doesn’t speak for the EU or the Spanish Gov. The Spanish parliamentary system is in chaos. Rajoy will be gone before long.
Scotland leaving the EU would have a negative affect on the Spanish economy. Holidaymakers, homeowners, employment and trade. Wine cheese, fruit and vegetable produce, migrant workers and students. Many study and work in Scotland. Learn the language. It would cause more contagion in Europe.
Catalonia and Scotland are totally different. Rajoy will be given that information in no uncertain terms.
Auld Rock,
Peace! I’m a relative youngster in comparison, but no spring chicken either. See my earlier posting. No offence to my contemporaries intended, merely a recognition of electoral realities.
As to the likelihood of older voters ever changing their minds, I did like very much the suggestion that (I think) came out of the EUref, that youngsters write to their grandparents pleading with them to think of the incoming generation. That could perhaps have a significant effect.
Latest on the coup
link to thecanary.co
and the fellow who sat behind farage yesterday and put his head in his hands says
link to ec.europa.eu
David Torrance on Sky giving his ‘opinion’.
‘Cos he’s an expert, eh?
Eejit.
When is the next edinburgh March planned
Would not miss it for the world
‘Well, apart from Scotland that is, who recently voted against it.’
What, nearly two years ago, is that your best comeback, yawn.
Feck me!
Even Cameron has resigned from the Labour Party!
link to bbc.co.uk
Scottish taxpayers pay (UK) pensions/benefits. They are taken out of fiscal public spending. £16Billion a year. Paid in Scotland and raised in Scottish tax revenues.
Other Pensions private schemes pay out to their members anywhere in the world. Their members have equal rights as dictated by their terms and conditions.
maknakawitless
Why don’t you grow a pair twat. Some day you may be an old fogey as well, but I think the way your brain cells are going theyl be burnt oot by then.
UKOK? No, UKKO.
Anyway, back to Sturgeon & Co, sounds like the name of a new-age band, one with a go-platinum future: “Something tells me it’s all happening at the “woo”. I do believe it, I do believe it’s true.”
FGS!
Auntie now quoting France & Spain saying UK out Scotland out. But we knew that was the expected outcome.
What Auntie can’t say is what will France & Spain do after an Indy2 YES vote which is another thing.
Spanish risotto off the menu today and French wine to the back of the fridge.
Belgium beer and Brussel sprouts with Scottish strawbs are on and err…more porridge. 🙂
k1
what did you just post?
do not post anything which downloads anything into my pc
With regards to Rajoy and Spain’s disposition towards Scotland, I think its Gibraltar who should be worried. Spain finds itself in a stronger negotiating position since the British are exiting the EU, and if Scotland wants membership, the Spanish can recognise their case for securing concessions. I wonder too whether Gibraltar feels betrayed by the Brexit vote.
Naturally it will be the BBC’s Godzilla piece of the week/month/year. Zzzzzzz….
Perhaps we should all heave a huge sigh of relief that we are existing citizens of the EU, and as far as I know, Spain’s position thus falls short of an arbitrary veto.
Worrying times for Gibraltar, at least until the dust settles on the new arrangement which rUK “enjoys” with Europe.
I declare myself firmly in the ASAP camp. We need to turn this current goodwill and warmth into something tangible. Indyref2 or a UDI followed up with a ratification / constitutional plebiscite.
Nicola is playing a blinder, but it can still go to pieces or be overtaken by events. My feeling is Europe is looking safe, now just get it in the net for Indy, but I’m sure that’s how everybody else feels too.
I would like to give advance warning that after my 65th birthday next year –
I will be trolling the feck out of this site
I will be voting ‘no’ in any indyref
I will be subscribing to the Scottish Daily Mail
I will be building a shrine to Kaye Adams
I will be cuddling up to Ruth Davidson
Well, an old person’s got to do …..
Spain only became a democratic monarchy in 1978. Scotland has been an EU member since 1975. Before Spain. A younger member State can’t veto the continuing membership of an older member State.
sandycraig says:
29 June, 2016 at 3:45 pm
maknakawitless
Why don’t you grow a pair twat. Some day you may be an old fogey as well, but I think the way your brain cells are going theyl be burnt oot by then.
———————-
I have a pair already.
I am old already.
My brain cells are going well enough to realise that you should develop some higher order reading skills, especially comprehension, before committing your lack of thoughts to cyberpaper.
O/T – Brexit and how it might affect aviation
If there are any aeronuts out there who would like to access a free webinar (hate that word), there’s one arranged for this Friday at 1:30pm.
Details and registration here:
link to workcast.com
@shiregirl: “David Torrance on Sky giving his ‘opinion’.”
Let’s face it shiregirl, won’t be long before they’re running out of Unionist “experts”.
Don’t forget the next campaign will be fought on entirely different ground.
With certainty on EU membership
All the universities for. Carefully complied research funding applications became worthless last friday plus most will have EU staff and students plus the nightmare of visas for visting academics etc.
Most big business will be for plus business looking for an english language EU base.
#Brexit pushes UK’s pension deficit close to £1 trillion link to efinancialnews.com
New outlook -Credit Suisse predicts UK recession with GDP -1.0% next year, Bank of England to slash rates to 0.05% and do £75 billion more QE.
These predictions will get worse when ScotInd possibility changes to ScotInd near certainty. The analysts are now all looking closely at UK books not headline GERS figures.
Is this the dictionary definition of a total clusterfuck?
Spain,
that old chestnut, Vote Brexit Scotland get control of fishing, oh can we stop the Spanish fishing in our waters then?
If all they have is a Spanish government with the hump, and lets be honest we would eat our hats if the Spanish Government did anything but look after the interests of the Spanish, for gods sake its pathological with them.
the guardian coning its readership again, no surprise there, not even a decent photo of thousands of Catalonia waving the Saltire, but reporting the statement but ignoring the context, after three,,,, UKOK fuck off!
Spain joined the EU in 1986. Years after Scotland. Spain (illegally?) discriminates against EU resides and doesn’t allow them to vote in regional, National elections or Referendums. EU (Spanish) citizens resident in Scotland get to vote in elections.
Cat I just posted a clip from Daily Record site…hasn’t done any downloading to my pc…so please refrain from unfounded ‘accusations’. Ta much.
Dr Jim @ 1.49pm
Excellent post Sir!
Hey folks.
I am feeling pretty down and negative today about things. I have been reading a few posts and it seems there is less of an upbeat feeling at the moment compared to 5 days ago.
It got me thinking to why am I feeling this way. Then it hit me. I am only talking about myself here but I think some shoukd give this some thought. 5 days ago the media in Scotland was caught off guard. They have started to find a theme now to infiltrate and undermine us. Everything’s going better and independence is coming.
Any negativity is being felt because project fear indyref2 has begun. But it has begun because it’s on again. I mean it’s really on again.
Heads up folks
@call me dave
I read the comments of EU various people differently. Seems to me they’re making a prominent note in everything they say, that they can’t talk to Scotland until we’ve voted for Independence in a referendum.
Hint hint – go for it, we’re with you.
Spain? Spain says what it has to say. In the end there’s realpolitik, and a charm offensive. Buenos Dias, dos caffe con latte por favor. Gracias.
Incidentally, trawling around twitter feeds last night, came across a commission person’s feed who’s favourable to Scotland now (a change apparently), spanish-speaking, and noticed the number of Indy supporters tweeting in Spanish. Good stuff.
For light relief the Indycamp plonkers are now putting their cases.
@BBCPhilipSim
It’s a wonder that McFarlane didn’t get banged up for contempt, although sectioned might be more appropriate.
France can’t veto an existing member. No member States can. It’s IndyRef2. In or out of the EU. Or decay and contamination in the UK. Scotland brought down again by Westminster policies and stagnation because of policies the majority in Scotland did not support. Bad regulations and new opportunties gone.
James has updated his blog since this morning and looks at the EU implications too.
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
Chic McGregor says:
29 June, 2016 at 3:26 pm
I think Spain will change their position when they reflect on things
I’m not a BBC Scotland news thingee but tonight’s BBC Scotland teatime news headlines are probably going to be “Spain crushes vile separatist EU dream for pissy little scotland region, so shadap and listen to the tories, red and blue”
But that’s just me guessing.
Re the Chilcot Report coming out next week.
My Thought Of The Day—-Remember it was Chancellor Gordon Brown who released the cash from the Treasury to invade Iraq and it’s people.
Whatever happens,I’m sure a Labour government will not be the result. I know both main UK parties are in chaos,but only one of them can call an election,and will do it whenever they want.
If need be,they will get around the 5 year parliament law,they have a majority. Prepare for another decade of Tory rule.
Time a 2nd indy ref and this time we get away and leave the vile little englander guffs to stew in their own bile and misery.
Alex had a few things to say about the coup. Programme still on
http://www.lbc.co.uk/alex-salmond-live-on-lbc—watch-from-4pm-133048
There are few opportunities for Spanish boats in Scottish waters because of conservation measures. EU Law specifies 100 kilometre exclusive radius for each home port.
There are increased quotas for Scottish boats because of new agreements on net size. Conservation nets. No (dead) throw backs. Any government would have to continue conservation measures to increase fish stocks. Migrant EU workers work in the fishing industry, it is still a large industry which exports to the France and Spain. Spanish & French imports come back.
That article in the Canary was very informative of those behind the coup running the media side of it.
However one thing stays foremost in my mind. Give they don’t like Corbyn which Labour politician made any speech during the EU referendum that got a reaction across the country and changed hearts and minds?
Nope even GOrdy struggled to Vow anything significant.
If they couldn’t make a notable intervention in what was the most important decision the country was likely to make in our lifetime what makes you think they will be able to command a government charged with negotiating from a very weak position to get some kind of crumbs from a very angry Europe?
It all points to an attempt by senior Labour figures to divert attention from the shambles that the Tories are in for which the grass roots membership should never forgive them come re selection time.
Some on here are saying Scotland has been a member of the EU since 1975 whereas others such as Spain have joined more recently. This type of thinking will get us nowhere. Scotland is not a member of the EU it is the UK that is and still is the member,so please face facts.
It is not inconceivable that the UK might “remain” by some ploy and not invoke Article 50. Until such time as Article 50 is invoked, Scotland will not be entertained by the EU other than as courtesy exchanges. In my view two things have to happen. Scotland will need to be independent and Article 50 invoked by the UK. At that point meaningful discussions will ensue.
It looks like soft No voters may support independence if Scotland becomes an EU member and this would probably win the day. Imagine indyref2 is announced and then the UK decides to remain in Europe by not invoking Article 50. Which way will the soft No votes go then; probably to the UK and indyref2 will be lost. A very calm head is required at the moment.
Kevin
yes, lets see them shout it from the rooftops when they read Spain’s statements, Oh yes, the EU will boycott Scotland, tomorrow the pound will rise to higher it has ever been before, the trillions in deficit will be paid off, England will win the world cup and all nations on earth will wish to be Englishmen!
I see no part of this union of crowns that actually exists anymore, it is a paper tiger, a ghost story to frighten children, Scotland wants out, take your red and blue conservatives and liar liberals and become all of the the insular little country you wish to be, with you’re superiority complex and hatred of anything foreign, of another mans skin colour, his language and culture.
For the avoidance of doubt the Union of 1707 is over, its finished, politely now Westminster FUCK OFF, there’s a good chap.
Whatever Spain says, it is being driven by more important issues for itself Ie Gibraltar and Catalonia, not Scotland.
Spain may not come round until we have won IndyRef2. It will become clear that Indy is the only way forward well before Brexit. Then there will be two counters running. Indy and Brexit.
We will then have to negotiate with EU, all 27 of them, after IndyRef2 but before Brexit.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the timing down counters are concurrent and Scotland and rUK share independence dates!
link to businessforscotland.co.uk
call me dave says:
29 June, 2016 at 3:53 pm
FGS!
Auntie now quoting France & Spain saying UK out Scotland out. But we knew that was the expected outcome.
Ruby replies
They are probably correct although they omitted to say UK out Scotland dragged out against it’s will.
This is good news for YES supporters not so good for Scottish Labour as they have a plan to keep Scotland in the EU & UK.
‘Scottish Labour seeks possibility of staying in EU and UK’
I would imagine people in the EU looking/laughing at the state of Westminster would understand why Scotland might want out of the Union.
Rajoy doesn’t have a majority and it would seem the other parties are refusing to form a coalition with him.
Exactly englandshire wanted independence during this euro ref and voted for it. As the fascist ukip scum keep saying they got their country back, but that doesnt mean dragging Scotland along against its will. Indy ref 2 and england can fuck off for good!
JC reported to have quit/staying.
maknakamura
Aw man full apologies. Too many posts, no easy to keep up, it’s the brain cells ye ken.
Must learn to read better and take notes.
link to twitter.com
good good, nicola didnt forget to bring her own backdrop and lectern for her press conference.
this visit is historic and worth its weight in gold
The shortcut to a new election is a vote of no confidence followed by two weeks of without a new government winning a vote of confidence. Given the chaos at the moment in the Labour party balances that in the Conservative it’s unlikely to happen. However given Labour can accelerate their leadership process there’s a remote chance they’ll get their act together in the unlikely event the investigations into electoral fraud loses the Conservatives their majority before they have Cameron’s replacement in post.
Oh Jeez, this is just too sweet. 😀 LOL
The press are falling over backwards to rehash indyref1’s EU argument without pausing to consider what’s changed.
Accession, succession doesn’t matter. After article 50 is triggered OUT IS OUT! This is all about HOW Scotland retains 40+ years worth of accrued EU rights. If its to be independence then a fast track reapplication, so be it. If the EU feel like being even more accommodating than that, then super dooper. Either way, promoting the Spain angle with its own Catalonian and fishing problems is a bit on the short sighted side and not least on the part of Spain itself.
For the terminally slow in meejaland, this time round there is no threat of Scotland being carried out of the EU unless we vote no. The UK government have kinda taken care of that issue and defaulted on yet another key pledge of indyref1 in the same breathe. This time round the issue surrounding the EU centres on how Scotland retains its membership.
Blammo!
link to archive.is
UKOK style.
Does that make France and Spain bad Europeans?
Same old tricks by the British state broadcaster to trawl around Europe looking for negatives. Maybe our friends the Irish will have a word in their ear.
So it looks like the only way Scotland can remain in the EU is by being Independent.
So basically it’s IndyRef2 ASAP then.
@Footsoldier,
The single trade agreement is the fly in the UK ointment. The right of people mobility is intrinsic with the agreement. It is one Westminster can no longer agree with due to the referendum result. Any English parties that agree to this will be finished.
They are desperately trying to find a way ,but cannot.
Funny how one day we are a financial burden which allegedly cost them billions they don’t have anyway, but they desperately want to keep us in the UK.
Interesting!
link to ec.europa.eu
you get to the bottom and an understanding of the divergence in what was once called the united kingdom
Footsoldier says:
“Imagine indyref2 is announced and then the UK decides to remain in Europe by not invoking Article 50.”
Very unlikely. I expect nothing but positioning and informal chat before Article 50
I guess the sequence will be…..
Article 50. A two year clock starts.
UK – EU negotiations which should take into account Scotland and NI’s wishes.
It will rapidly become clear WM are not willing to accommodate Scotland nor negotiate for a special status.
As it becomes obvious that the choice is between Indy and a right wing neo liberal unbridled London rule, public opinion will swing further towards Indy.
Indyref2 in about 12 months time, which will be won.
Intention to become independent on the Brexit date.
The EU will negotiate then. It is inconceivable that they reject Scotland’s membership at that point.
[ Negotiations with London and Scotland also proceed. ]
Indy & Brexit on the same day.
perhaps nicola should round off her presidential tour with a quick stop off in …say…. barcelona?
🙂
rajoy (spanish waiter) would just love seeing nicola address the catalunian parliament… snigger
re Spain and BBC and Brit Nat poison.
Does Spain even have a Govt at the moment?
Look chaps you have it all wrong. A couple of spits at Beachy head will sort out the morale thingy and show Johnny Foreigner what he’s up against. Chocks away!
Is it just me or does anyone else think Scotland should follow Norway and seek associated membership of the EU?
Scotland should most definitely leave the UK. I am 110% behind that idea but the way the EU shat all over the Greece elections does concern me.
During indyref the Norway model did hold water in many forms mostly based of Scotland’s similar industry and geographic location. I think a lot of people who were soft yes and no could get there head around the Norway comparison. Cameron already admitted Norway is a successful model of 5 million with oil.
I’d accept EU membership out of the U.K. but I think I’d prefer independence out the UK and out the EU.
Rajoy says no, but the EU is starting the big squeeze on Brexit UK
FT
“European leaders insisted Britain must allow freedom of movement if it wanted to access the single market during their first meeting in Brussels without the UK.
“There will be no single market a la carte,” said Donald Tusk, the EU Council president, as the group met to set out the terms of engagement for any divorce talks in the wake of the Brexit vote.
Charles Michel, Belgium’s prime minister, has been one of the most vocal in urging London not to waste time. “Great Britain cannot afford a long soap opera” over its exit, he said on Tuesday.”
UK.gov must be shitting bricks over art 45, like Russian roulette with a fully loaded revolver, and all UKOK daily heil proto fascists screaming at them to pull the trigger.
Nicola to give an update of EU meetings within next hour. Does anyone have a link.
@ScottiDog says: 29 June, 2016 at 2:05 pm:
“Also Spain PM says in up out Scotland out. A bit disgruntled over Catalonia.”
Nah! ScottiDog, Spain won’t be a problem after they get the message that if Scotland DOESN’T get into the EU in her own right, after the United Kingdom ends, then Spain will be forced to get out of Scottish Fishing grounds for Spain has the largest fishing fleet in the EU and fishes mainly in Scottish waters.
Someone may just get round to telling the Spaniards that Scots are much renowned for holding grudges and for having very, very long memories.
Pomp and ceremony Scottish style this Saturday
Over 2,500 people taking part in a colourful, historic ‘Riding’ procession down Edinburgh’s Royal Mile, including Highland Games,
link to parliament.scot
looks like fun
Forgot to say, Robert Peffers would be proud of me taling about tripartite agreements for Scotland to saty in the EU and UK, and QUADRIPARTITE [google] for NI to stay in the UK and EU.
Just to put Spain’s fears to rest. At present Sturgeon is not negotiating Brexit. She is simply in discussion with the EU to find any possible avenue for Scotland remaining an EU member after Brexit is complete. Sturgeon’s parliament is elected from a population of over 5 million EU citizens via an electorate that includes non UK nationals at risk of having their right of residence revoked against the express will of the majority of Scotlands UK nationals.
Now given that the EU are on record as saying they will not pre-negotiate Brexit it follows that they can do so if they choose to. Spain might be better engaging in any pre-negotiation between the EU and Scotland. Especially as a solution that allows for Scotland to retain membership of bot the UK and the EU would be in Spain’s interest.
Also worth mentioning that fucking over the UK after it’s handed in it’s notice is, within limits, good for the unity of the remaining membership.
K1 at 4.12pm
Clicking on your link downloaded a file to my pc too. Took me ages to find it & delete it.
My bad, it’s over.
‘The Spanish Prime Minister has dealt a blow to Nicola Sturgeon’s hopes of keeping Scotland in the EU.
Mariano Rajoy said no-one in the EU should be negotiating with anyone other than the UK Government about Brexit.’
I don’t believe Nicola Sturgeon wants to keep UK Scotland in the EU she wants iScotland to be in the EU.
Nicola Sturgeon is not negotiating Brexit she is finding out how Scotland can remain in the EU and it would seem that the only way to do that is to vote YES.
Muchas gracias Rajoy. Too bad for Labour/Tory Ruth that you have scuppered their plans to remain in the EU & UK.
Spain only joined the EU in 1986 prior to that they were a Fascist state ruled by a dictator. Rajoy was brought up in a Fascist state ruled by a dictator who enlisted the help of the nazis to bomb the Basque town of Guernica.
‘£110m a year of EU agricultural subsidies is spent in Spain to fund bullfighting.’
Perhaps that is something iScotland could put a stop to when we are in the EU.
“Does Spain even have a Govt at the moment?”
Does the UK?
Given the position of Spain and France perhaps we should make arrangements to return all the bodies of Scottish service man and women who gave their lives to protect the right of Spain and France to elect their own government.
Mr McTernan has an article in the Daily Telegraph – online version – saying that Angela Eagle is just the leader that Labour needs.
Also a very good article on Newsnet about UK’s export position – or lack thereof – with the rest of the World. Some interesting facts and figures in it.
@One_Scot
You just missed it on Sky tv live
Short and cheery basically saying she did what she came to do which was to get Scotland’s voice heard.
Answering a couple of questions to good effect until sky went to the Jeremy thing.
He’s not resigned yet.
Nicola’s Press Conference in Brussels on BBC News Channel.
Looking at the forest of microphones in front of Nicola it is very obvious that the matter of Scotland’s Indpendence and relationship with The EU is not just of Europoean interest but Worldwide interest.
The Spanish government is probably annoyed about NS agreeing so quickly to meet reps from Gibraltar. No matter, we have a fair bit of leverage with them. But France? What about the Auld Alliance?
Qeulle Deception. 🙁
Rancid sends round the begging bowl.
link to archive.is
Same phoney baloney progressive liberals what gave Scotland
link to wingsoverscotland.com
O/t , however does anybody know much about Oliver Letwin apparently put in charge of
Brexit ” negotiations” .If I recall correctly he is on the “extreme far right” of the new ” Tory cabal ” soon to be passed the “power baton”, from the ” old cabal”??
““There will be no single market a la carte,” said Donald Tusk”
Not actually true of course, the Lisbon Treaty contains dozens of Protocols that give individual member states individual choice on some matters, including currency and Schengen, but hey, it’s the UK he’s talking about, not Scotland. Mmmmm.
Poor JC. As if it’s not enough ignominy to be told by a lame duck PM – just go, man!
They have wheeled out Gromits Da, who says I’m not a Blairite, thereby telling you who sent him.
It is still providing huge comedy value. To the detriment of the country, and to their members.
They will be carping from the side lines for decades. The Fib Dems time has come.
Just for a bit of fun and poking the hapless real labour party.
Bercow pretends to be not amused!
link to bbc.co.uk
Have a distinct feeling in my water that moves are affoot to suspend the UK’s EU membership at least until the A50 is handed in or perhaps permanently.
The alleged comment about Farage not being back might indicate that he, at least, is about to be told to GTF.
Not entirely sure how the Commission works whilst a man down. Can new laws be proposed?
Kevin Evans @ 17:01,
For goodness’ sake, stop trying to fight a rearguard action over Leave in Scotland. You’re just wasting your time, and providing an unnecessary diversion from the one and only goal that matters: independence.
The EU gives us a great big lever for indy, so completely stupid to chuck it away.
Once we have indy, you can take your chances with revisiting Leave if you want, but I suspect there will be far more important things to worry about by then.
@Andrew McLean. Andriukaitis knows very well about independence and will be sympathetic to Scotland.
His family was deported to Siberia where he was born. He was part of the Lithuanian underground and came to the attention of the KGB. He was a signatory to Lithuanian independence and helped to bring back the pre war social democrat party. Good friend to have.
Oh Dear, less than 24 hours after Labour and the LibDems came up with a cunning hunky dory plan to distance themselves from the tories, support the SG and keep Scotland in the UK and in Europe as well, I think the Spanish and French have just closed the trap. 🙂
Should have thought that one throught, Kez n’ Willie.
link to bbc.co.uk
Nicola 17mins in roll back the slider thing.
After Nicola Sturgeon, my most favourite politician in the entire world at this time is Jeremy Corbyn.
Never thought I’d ever say that!
Rajay represents no one but himself. He does not have a majority in the corrupt Spanish Parliament and is despised in Spain. Plenty of enemies. It is not up to him. No Member State can veto a present member’s place in the EU.